And That's Why We Drink - E457 Segway Fun Facts and Inflatable Birthday Tiaras

Episode Date: November 9, 2025

It’s Episode 457 and we’re wishing Gio a very happy 10th birthday! Today Em brings us to Christine’s hometown for the very haunted Cincinnati Music Hall. Then Christine covers the case of Little Miss Lake Panasoffkee now known as Maureen “Cookie” Rowan as she’s just been identified after 55 years! And please don’t leave your buckets of formaldehyde gel laying around where we can see them… and that’s why we drink! If you have any information relevant to Maureen “Cookie” Rowan’s life or death in 1971, contact the Sumter County Sheriff’s Office tip-line at 352-569-1915 or via email to [e-mail] Catch our bonus Yappy Hour intermissions on Apple Podcastshttps://apple.co/3L28lDw or subscribe on Patreon: http://patreon.com/ATWWDPodcast!___________________Save 20% Off Honeylove by going to https://www.honeylove.com/DRINK ! #honeylovepodGo to http://helixsleep.com/drink for 27% Off Sitewide. Exclusive for listeners of And That's Why We Drink Open an account in 2 minutes at http://chime.com/drink If you think you or someone you know might be struggling with OCD, please don’t wait to get help. Go to https://learn.nocd.com/ATTWD and book a free call with their team to learn more. Don't miss the horror event of the season. KEEPER opens in theaters nationwide November 14th. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

From best-selling author Wendy Walker comes a gripping new psychological thriller with a spectacular twist. Three friends, two timelines, one deadly truth. Don't Miss Walker's new audible original, The Room Next Door, a tightly crafted, ever-twisting mystery told from three points of view, starring acclaimed narrator and fan favorite Julia Waylon, alongside Elizabeth Evans and Beebe Wood. They were best friends forever, until the night one of them disappeared. In 2010, Brooke Lowry, Carrie Hollis, and Eve Shea were inseparable. But on the 4th of July, Eve vanished, and her case was never. solved. Brooke moved away, but Carrie couldn't let go, her obsession driving her to become

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The Room Next Door is a deeply immersive, richly complex, nail-biting thriller. Follow every step and misstep, Brooke, Carrie, and Eve take. Don't miss Wendy Walker's new Audible original The Room Next Door. Go to audible.com slash the room next door and start listening today. This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace. We have been using Squarespace since we started the podcast. like before, like since we, before we launched it, which is, yeah, yeah. So we've been using it longer than the podcast has been around because we have

been, we were building out our website. And it was so easy. For two people who've never built a website, it was just kind of a plug and chug situation. They made it so user friendly. It's so true. And we've stuck around with them because since then, they've only gotten better and more, you know, integrations, more features. For example, let me give you like a little situation here.

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Head to Squarespace.com slash string for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code, drink to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. So certain pairs of life, my OCD likes to jump out and give me a little scare and it gets really active and loud and disturbing. And that is when I like to turn to no CD because OCD is a lot more than just stereotypes. It's serious and highly misunderstood. It is a condition that causes people to get stuck in a cycle of stressful. unwanted thoughts, repetitive physical behaviors. If there's anything like this that sounds like it might ring true to you,

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Is it right? Sorry. Welcome to our podcast. It's a medical show where we diagnose each other with no real medical expertise necessary. Is it like here? Yeah! That's your hip flexor, dude. I think you got to stretch that out because if you're laying down,

you don't have the room to like contract it. So it's probably really tight. okay dr christine over here i mean listen i told you this is my new medical show dr christine i'm just kidding please i think someone can probably sue me for that and it's and it's probably warranted so uh allegedly but it's also it's also a little up in my tummy it's like right it's like under the belly it's like in my pelvic area yeah yeah that's that's probably your hip flexor or your soas muscle fuck what do you do in the middle of that i know why do you know that honestly thank you so much for asking, I was up until 3 a.m. last night and I was looking up all these different acupressure

points for falling asleep and it wasn't working. Well, well done. Psycho. Yeah, it worked. I've done a lot of somatic work, trauma release exercises, that kind of thing. And the hips carry a lot of trauma and carry a lot of tension and stress. And so when they start acting up, you know, you can kind of pinpoint what's, I do carry all my stress in my butt, fun fact. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Okay, that's interesting she's she's always a little tense she's always tight you know i would say stretch your hip flexer because i feel like or at least stretch it and see if that's where it hurts and then you'll know like if that's the thing or um no i just sorry my back is so eff dude this is why i'm doing these things all the time because i'm like everything hurts i need to like figure out how to fix myself

what are you doing what's what's what's why is just stretching oh i don't know i just old i think hmm okay and i carry a four year old all the time and it's like Does she actually want to be carried these days? I feel like she's just on the go. No, the second they start to walk, they're like, no, I want to walk. And then they're like, walking isn't a lot of work. Can you carry me? After six months are like, the allure is.

The magic's over. Right? It's not exciting anymore. And they're like, can you carry me? And it's like, so I can like look at my toy while you carry me and I don't have to do any physical activity or look where I'm going. And it's like, I mean, I get it. I would ask to be carried too. It's interesting that that feeling starts so young.

Because it never ends. Like, I still would love to be carried instead of have to walk. She does move a lot. I think it's just very, when it's like, time for bed, she's like, carry me upstairs. And I'm like, okay. But then, you know, anywhere else, she's like, let me just zoom around at lightning speed and knock over everything and everyone I can. So it really goes between two sides of the spectrum.

Weirdly, her and Hank are in the same place. Oh, yeah. What is his take on being. carried. I assume he does not like it. He doesn't mind it. I mean, he doesn't want it, but like if I have to carry him, he never fights me on it. Yeah, Geo goes like this. Yeah. He doesn't score him, but he goes like, he's freaked out. Like those like the like the like goes catatonic. Yeah, they like freeze, right? Like they're like, eh. I think he knows if I'm picking him up. Like there's a real reason for it. Something's occurring. He's going to be placed somewhere.

But I did, I meant more like he's, uh, would you say, you said something about how she's just like kind of just runs into everyone or runs into everything. Oh, yes. Very like a hyper speed. Yeah, I like to say at the dog park that he's exactly, Tasmanian devil. He's exactly knee, exactly knee height. Ah, that's a dangerous dangerous height. Leona's just getting to exact counter height. And I'm like, God, here we go. Yeah. Yeah. She's been balking her head on everything. Um, she's been balking in her head, her 99th percent health circumference head on everything since the moment she entered my womb. Um, perfect. Yeah. Uh, where, where is hankers? Oh, you're at, You're not in your home, are you?

No. Because I was going to say, what a beautiful beige piece of art you have. Thank you. I think we made fun of the art last time I was in here. I love to talk about hotel art. It makes me laugh every time. Well, how does this one make you feel? Not good?

Me either. It looks like the back rooms a little bit. It does. I don't know why people think beige. Yeah. I get there like, oh, it's warm. It's a warm temperature color. And I'm like, but it's also.

What is warm? What do you mean warm? Like, warm like to my soul? Because that doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel warm to my soul. It just feels like brown. Like it just feels obviously like it just feels dirty. Like it's so yellow, it becomes brown and then it's just dull.

And then that gets kind of grungy and dingy and it's like, yeah. Anyway, the painting is boring. Yes, I'm in a hotel and I will be home later. Yay. Hooray. And Hank is, he's good. He's just chilling. he got a scratch on his nose at boarding and I want to beat up whatever puppy hurt my puppy

and I was like, who did this to you? You give me his name and Hank Wynch, which I guess I can respect. Wow. Yeah, anyway. He's got some real like partnerships in there though. Yeah, or someone's threatening him. I don't like that. So anyway, if your puppy came home and said that he scratched a puppy in Burbank, you give me his name and we're going to tussle. Maybe it was an accident. I don't know and I don't care. Anyway, so yeah, there's a, I was just in Texas, which that's the reason I drink this week is that I got to have a, it was quite an honor there. It's like a whirlwind romance you had for a day or two. I did.

It was in total, I think it was like half a day of traveling and then I spent a day there, which was nice. But I was just there super quick. two listeners named Trace and Cynthia, they are in the theater world and they're very big in Austin, Texas. They're very, very successful. Like, I just watched them on Instagram last night win, like, a bunch of awards

for a different play that they put together. And I guess they... Do they have, like, a... I want to double check, but I think it's called Bottle Alley. Let me double check. I don't think, I think they work through this theater company.

I don't know if it's their theater company. but they work with the Bottle Alley Theater Company in Austin. Oh, okay. And their names were Trace and Cynthia. And they listened to forever ago my, I think it was a three-parter or a two-parter for Harry Houdini. That was like a classic episode. It's still to this day one of my favorite stories I've covered. And it's one of like my favorite fascinations to tell people about still.

But I guess they listened to that. And in it, I guess it was around when Hamilton came out. And I was like, this needs to be a Hamilton kind of. a play this needs to be a play um and they literally turned it into a play and so um that's just amazing it's so cool so they um reached out and i was able to uh fly into austin for their last showing of it which was great and that's so fun i wanted to tell you it was so cool because my all i knew is that there was a play about houdini i didn't know anything else i assumed it was when i heard inspired by my episode i assumed it was the episode from beginning to end

for summary. I just thought it was like they were going to cover what I covered. But they actually, um, theirs was about 10 years after Houdini died and everyone getting together to do the final seance of him. My favorite part of the story. And, uh, what was so interesting about is I, I thought this was going to be, I'm going into a local theater and sitting in an audience and watching people on stage, but it was like one of those live interactive theaters. And so they rented out like this historic landmark in Austin. This old spooky Victorian manner in every room there were different people playing different parts

and you got to see you could walk through the house but you could see everything that was happening the night of. So you could go into this one room where they were doing a seance and one room where his Harry Houdini's protege was doing magic tricks and you could go into this other area and in some way each of their storylines all end up kind of merging into everyone walking into the carriage house and watching them do the full seance together.

It was very, very cool. That is, that's way, that is not what I expected. No, it's so much cooler than I thought. Yeah. And so it was very nice. I met everybody the, it was like an insanely talented cast. Everybody was so nice and a weird, I think every single person that theater company listens to us because they were, those photos you posted were so sweet. And I was like, this is like just such a charming group of people.

I don't know them, but they seem lovely. Every single person was so like, like, obscenely kind of. like it was like just so they were so wonderful um obscenely kind i don't you put that on your brochures for next time we are obscenely kind please come to our place no not even we are obscenely kind podcaster you know and shultz they were just so wonderful and then we all went out to a bar afterwards and i ended up becoming like instagram friends with all them and all that but they and they they put out like such great stuff as soon as they wrapped this one i was there for the closing night they had awards for like the next two days to go to and they won awards at both of them and then

now they're i think writing something else or all the cast that i now follow on instagram they're already rehearsing for other shows so so yeah let's fucking follow the train man how exciting yeah so if you see anything from um i mean bottle alley theater company please go if you live in austin go go go see their shows um and especially if it's written by tracer cynthia they yeah yeah it was just a very great experience i'm so glad i went because it was it was very impulsive like we found out like i think a week or two before yeah they were like this is a long shot and em was like i'll be there they did tell me uh because we all went out afterwards and they were like yeah we were just like at a bar and i think and i was just like fuck it wouldn't it be crazy if

they came this is your sign if you're out there and you're like i don't know they would never just just try it who knows people like us exist and we're fucking nuts like i i was like if i didn't have like a kid in the plan and travel i probably would have showed up too i don't know is a crazy thing when you use it right. It is. And then when you're a Gemini and you're like, what can I do today? And it's like someone hands you on a silver platter. Like why don't you fly to Austin for a day? It's like, well, I can't not. And it turned, yeah, it turned into like a great day. It was like honestly one of the best days I've had in a really long time was like I just everything planned out very well. Like I did my classic waking up way too fucking early,

which is so out of character. But I got a lot done in 24 hours and it was it was very nice. And I was telling them, I don't know. Where did you stay? Haunted hotel? No, I stayed at a hotel that was closest to the airports, that way I could get the most done. Makes sense, makes sense. But what was the art like there? Was it warm and brown? Honestly, the art was about this level.

Okay. Yeah, that feels airport hotel to me. I didn't stick around to look at the art, you know what I'm saying? I left very quickly, and maybe the art was responsible for that. I guess you had other things to do in the city of Austin, Texas, and sit in the hotel at the airport. yeah well so i did i don't know if they will do this but i was very um demanding by the end of the night that they make this they try to shoot for this being a regular like you know how every halloween it's like best things to do for the Halloween season in this city yeah yeah i was like

you have to bring this back next year and you have to keep doing it so if for some reason next year as we're speaking it's 2025 if you see this during a Halloween season in the future and you see the last science of Harry Houdini as an event, you have to go. It was very cool. There was a whole bar area where they were making like themed drinks. It was very wonderful. How fun is that? And everyone was so nice. So everyone, everyone wanted me to tell you hello. So hello. Oh, hello. Oh, I'm so honored. I just loved like living vicariously. And it was so nice to not go somewhere and be social, but to like feel like on behalf, like I was like there in spirit, it felt like, oh, M's just,

Emil handled the, you know, socializing on my behalf, which happens a lot. I love to hold court. Oh, and also, there's a lot of thing I'll say about it, but some people who have been like listeners forever, forever, ever, I don't know how they knew people through this theater company, but they also bought tickets to this somehow knowing I was going to be there. And so I got to meet like, like people who, like I recognized their. their username because they've been around that long. That's a, yeah, that's a, that's a commitment. Like people who used to send us like some of like the OG like, um, like fan mail and like

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Follow our like early Patreon live streams and stuff, I think. So yeah. Anyway, thank you to everybody. Wow. It was a wonderful ego boost. Um, and, uh, it was a great, great show. I'm like, it's, it was super cool to see.

So, I'm so happy. Other than that, the reason I drink is I found a new impanata lady. and um where she goes she goes my dog park um oh and then the not so good reason why i drink is because my hip hurts which i we've discussed already so well i've i've handled that for you so thank you go stretch your hip flexor um so i'm actually being boring today i'm just drinking a sparkling water this looks like the most generic like aldi brand something it does yeah oh it's german that makes sense um you're like we're not here for the flare you're going to like what's going on the inside yeah sit down and drink um and so i'm drinking that but the reason i drink which is

kind of similar to yours in a way but not uh i was at the bookstore in my neighborhood where i feel like i've made so many cool connections with people who are familiar with a podcast or who um have seen the book and then like our book and then the guy who is the manager there i chatted with him the other day and he's like oh we always make sure to keep like a copy of your book up and I know it was really really sweet and so leona and i went a few days ago and we're sitting in the back and she's eating her chocolate babka and uh or as he always says it's pronounced babka and i'm like okay chocolate babka and we're in the back eating it and uh leona looks goes look mommy and they have both of our books on the local authors uh wall and i was like oh my dream come true local authors

so i'm in like the kentucky section and i was like so geeking out we're sitting there I swear to God, a few months later, these two women come in. They're like kind of like classic like yoga pants, young moms, like clearly just like out doing stuff and getting shit done. And they're sitting there and they're talking about plans and stuff. And then all of a sudden one of them stands up and goes, oh, this will help. And they pull down our book. And I'm like, I've never seen this happen in my life. Like somebody in the wild.

I've never seen that. It was, I was so, I was like, I have to leave. I have to leave. But I sat down and I was like, just see what happens. and she starts flipping through the books and she goes or through our book and she goes okay okay here write this one down and she starts they literally am started planning a road trip shut up and i'm sitting there going this can't be happening and she says something i was so like no i just sat there like stunned i don't think i would have said anything either i would have just been like like locked the fuck in like i was

locked in and i said leona look look leona and she doesn't give a shit does she no she was like that's your book and I was like, I know. And I was like, I don't think they know. Say it louder. Say it louder. I know, right? I was like, I don't think they know I wrote it. And she's like, oh, that's too bad. And I was like, okay, if maybe it wasn't meant to be. But, um, humbled so fast. I know. I was like, but it was just crazy. And I, I, and then, oh, then they go to the back flap and start reading. Oh, and they see your face. So, fortunately for me, my presentation in the local coffee shop at 8.30 in the morning is a little bit different than the photo we took six years ago. in which my pre-child spray-tanned short, short romper and heels, like definitely a different vibe.

And so I was like, there's no way in hell they're going to recognize me. They did not. But they start reading. They go, and that's why we, oh, this is a podcast. The other one, because it's a podcast. And then they're like, okay, write that down. We can listen to it on the way. And I was like, this is a crazy.

And I was going to say something then. But then they, and also they were a little intimidating because, like I said, they were those kind of like yoga mom. where I was like, oh, I feel like already kind of on the outs. And then I was like, oh, God, what if I walk up? And I'm like, that's my book. And they were like, okay. I don't know. I just felt really weird about it.

But I was like, you know what? I'm just going to enjoy this moment. And the fact that they, oh, and then they went to one of your sections or one of your stories. And they said something like, oh, my God. Did you know he was a doctor before he killed those people or before the hospital? And she goes, he was. Like, I thought I knew everything about the story.

And I was like, this is crazy. Wow. Oh, my God. Also, a part of me was worried they were going to be like, oh, this is terrible, and it sucks, and these people are idiots. So I was like, I'm just going to let them have their opinion and leave it alone. That's, and you know what? I mean, that's just, that's so syncing cool.

That's so sick of cool. I was like, I literally took a picture. I was taking a picture of Leona, but I just zoomed in to like. Right, right, right. I was like, I need to prove to myself later that they were actually holding our book and like reading the About Us section. And I was like, this is mortifying. I've never even, it's wild to me that people read the about section because I,

I don't do that. So it's weird that someone was curious about, like, who we actually are. Yeah. If only it said local author. I know. I mean, it does say. Well, I guess it was in the local author section, right? Oh, it was in the local office section.

And at one point, Leona, like, ran to the other room and I went, Leona. And then it occurred to me like, oh, shit, in that, like, in the acknowledgments I write, like, to Leona, whatever. So I'm like, if they really were, um, if they were listening, if they were actually listening to me, then maybe they would have figured it out. anyway so i thought you'd appreciate that too because it was just like one of those wild like i can't believe this is actually happening and i'm witnessing it because i only go to that coffee shop like every other week one time so i'm like it's not like i'm always there it was just a very bizarre moment still so cool well i and then she didn't buy the book by the way oh she put it back and i went well i've clocked you lady if they took a picture of anything as inspiration i'll take

that they were taking notes the one woman was writing everything down they're like we could stop here. I mean, it was so cool. I mean, in this economy, just screen, just take pictures of the book. Seriously, I don't expect you to literally buy the book. I'm totally kidding. But piggybacking when I was in Austin, I was hanging out with one of my friend Selena, and she just like, oh, let's go to this bookstore. I think I'll really like it. And it was a bookstore we had a book signing at. And I was like, and it was the one, you'll remember this one. It was one that was like three floors. Oh, oh, I still have a ton of shit. Didn't we buy those? was tiara, those inflatable tiaras.

Literally we stopped at the tiara section again. We each bought them one. I bought one for my stepmom. You bought one for your mom. I think if I'm guessing, it was a hit with your mom because my stepmother lost her damn mind, wore it the entire night, wore it to her next Christmas event and told everyone like, this is my tiara. The only reason my mom doesn't wear the inflatable tiara is because she has two actual

jeweled tiaras. Oh, so does Ellen. So does Ellen. And the reason it was a- travel one. And this was why it was a fun joke is because she gave me one of her tiaras before my wedding. And then I was like, I'm not wearing this at my wedding. It was a day before my wedding. And I'm like, I already have my hair. I'm not wearing a tiara. And so she's like, just take it in case you change your mind. Then like two weeks later, she was like, why have you not given me my tiara? And I was like, I thought you gave that to me. And she's like, no, it's mine. And so I had something borrowed. I guess so I was like, well, I guess if I didn't wear it, I don't get to own it anymore. So I gave it back to her. And so then when I gave her the inflated, one it was kind of like a ha ha here's another tiara for you who the fuck has the fact that your mother and my stepmother both have real jeweled tiaras is crazy and then we gifted one to my grandma for her 90th i don't know why everyone does fucking family everyone but me has a tiara a real one i think oh i thought

you meant like a you gifted her an inflatable one i was like that's fun no she a 90th birthday she deserves a real tiara she does she deserves whatever she fucking wants at 90 that's right Um, anyway, sorry for the glare on my glasses. They're kind of, it's kind of stressing me out. No, it actually kind of matches the painting behind you. There's weird like bars of light. It just kind of looks like. I know.

It's like a, anyway, um, no, I don't have a tiara. I don't want one mom. I feel like she's going to hear this episode. She's like, oh, now I know what to get you. Actually, I was going to say, M doesn't want one listeners because now I feel like we're going to get all sorts of weird. Yeah, I'm good. I like my baseball hats. I got one right here.

It's my, I don't, I'm good. I got things from my head. Um, now a Delorian. Now that is where we can begin. the conversation. Well, I only say that because it is November 5th, which is the anniversary of Windock Brown, who's cover time travel. And by the way, it's the 40th anniversary. And tonight, the other reason I drink is because I'm, they're playing it for one night only in the theaters again tonight. So be excited. Well, I have something to say, which I forgot until you mentioned the

date. Today is Gio's 10th birthday. Shut the fuck up. And I really, I really cannot believe that I keep slipping my mind because my brain can't accept it. That can't be true. No, no. No, no. no, no, no, no, because that's not true. Oh, okay. Is it his ninth? Well, I went to his first birthday in 2018. No, that was 2017? 17. So he's eight.

What? He's not 10. I certainly will fight to the death that he's not 10. Okay, all right. All right. Maybe you're right. But maybe I'm wrong. I'm just in denial. I think I just am a bad pet parent and I forget the year that he was. was born because it feels like so long ago we we only started being friends yeah 2017 right yeah the podcast started no we started the podcast so we started 2016 yeah we became friends October 30th 2016 his his birthday is November so you probably went to his so it was a month

into our friendship first birthday so that means that this is his 10th birthday wow oh my god so what do you so he deserves a t r he's fucking 70 and he has it to you he has like four t rs what are you going to do for little gji for his bke boy oh my god well it's a beautiful day it's like 65 degrees out gorgeous we're probably gonna take him out on the town what are his give everyone an update on gji what are his favorite things to do these days oh my gosh he loves to eat cat shit and he loves to steal leona's socks and place them in really inconvenient places throughout the house. He loves socks, like, still.

And it's mostly Leona's socks because they're everywhere. And he will, like, hide them in our bed. And he's just a very good boy, and I love him. And he and Leona are always like, she's always like, Gio! Because he'll, like, try to eat a French fry out of her hand. I'm like, Mom, do you have to eat my French fries? And I'm like, kids, get along, please.

I love that they love each other. They do, and they annoy the hell out of each other. So they are kind of like siblings. But it's really sweet. And he loves all his little brothers. and his little baby and he's just a very good happy healthy boy so yeah does he have any doctor's appointments coming up to guarantee he is perfectly a wonderful healthy happy boy yeah you know uh he got his allergy shot so he should be set on that front um he got all his vaccines and he's getting

a lot of exercise and uh he's eating that good uh healthy food that i um we didn't add for and then i convinced myself into buying it and I love it and he's happy. Yeah, he's a good boy. He's a good man. And he's still naps, right? He's still naps? He's right here napping. Oh, happy birthday to you. How do I even turn this thing? Happy birthday to you.

Ah! Happy birthday! Oh, Gigi. Handsome baby boy Tio. Clearly I don't know how to use my camera. Happy B-day to you. Oh, just a happy man. Gee-Gee. Hi, hi.

Happy birthday. He doesn't look a day over five. He's my puppy dog. He doesn't even look 10. I'm sorry that was not my reason I drink. I just like. What the hell is good? We got a real great tour of your laptop, though.

Yeah, my bad. My bad. Wasn't the plan, I swear. Okay, yeah, he just needed a little shout up. But yeah, he's a good boy. Ten. You really got my hopes up for a minute. I went, phew.

I was convinced. There's no way. Chewy. Chewy sent a card saying. it's your 10th birthday and I went how dare you and then I was like oh my god they would know I guess because I must have signed him up years ago so no I for some reason thought that the podcast was 2018 which make us 2017 so he would be two years younger yeah unfortunately I've been trying to find a way to say anything but 10 but yeah that's it but I can't believe he's 10 that means in February it'll be his gotcha day and I'll have had him 10 years you got to have a big day with him you got to let him have some PB and oh yeah it's like right around valentine's day so it'll be very romantic oh i'm so excited you and hank probably have very similar activities when it comes to snuggling and sharing snacks i did teach him the word snuggle that's very nice um and he recently got all of his shots but he got them all

at once and i guess he has the same thing that i have so it's genetic which is that after too many vaccines you get like swollen lymph nodes oh yeah and it freaked me out because i gave him a little touchy scratch and all of a sudden he had a big ass cyst on his leg and i was like i was like how does it start this early oh my god he's fucking won i was like how is there so i had a full crash out thinking it was like something worse and then i had to call the vet and they were like he just had vaccines he's just feeling a little owie after his shots yeah yeah anyway um this dog is now like what the hell do you want lady he like he's like why did you wake me up now he feels like there's something um oh let me see this sweetie man oh my goodness a nice chest shot of his furbies

hi handsome man oh hi mimi's oh this happy boy that's my first love right there this my sweetie boy I loved him before I loved Allison That Oh look at his little tushy You really did zoom in just kind of to brag about how great his hair is Oh my God And now the monster herself We get out of you

We get it You have a tight jaw line We get it, Christine Oh you don't Bad makeup abilities No you look great Anyway Okay

so that's that wow what an intro but we had a lot to catch up on i know well i haven't talked to you in a long time people think that we see each other every week but sometimes it's got so it's always in like texas uh well i do and i i will state again um publicly just because i think i think i think in my head i say it out loud but then i don't uh but i can bring a microphone anywhere so anytime right right right but i um because i did think about it i was like maybe i just stay longer but honestly the only reason I came back is because it's fucking dog and it's expensive to put them somewhere else so if only I miss him and that too and if only I had a partner who could be home and take care of him while I'm gone yeah is Allison still on the run ask a question that you want an answer to that is not going to sound super depressing okay um she is still not home but that is okay um we How much do I want to say? I'm making it sound a lot worse than I'm.

I'm trying to think of behind the scene stuff that's going on. We are totally fine, but given the state of the world, we are a little scared about how, you know, how everything's playing out. And so we have looked at contingency plans to maybe live elsewhere. And that's not super duper on the radar or anything, but we have thought of it as a potentially serious hypothetical. And so the way that we have framed her being gone this whole time is like, let's just take advantage of getting to you seeing your family a lot.

And just in the event that we decide we got to pull a plug and get out of here. Like get out of L.A.? No. Like, get out. The earth or just the country? I'm like, how far are we talking, baby? I don't know how much to intervene here or whether. No, honestly, we haven't we haven't figured out a super-duper plan yet.

Not that there's even actually a plan that's in effect at all, but we are just trying to come up with plan Bs and C's and Ds if things are getting worse and worse for marginalized people. And I know queer people are on that list. And so we've just been having talks about what-ifs. And in the event that one of those what-ifs becomes an actual reality, I think Allison's going to be really grateful that she spent so much time with her family. just um so the the goal obviously would be my my true homeland Canada that's obviously the goal

which would actually work out a lot better because if we went to Canada I would like to think we would just move to like essentially the east coast you know and then we would right right right same coast together um but anyway that's another secret not so secret update is that you know we're just planning to have to plan in case there's something we have to plan for so and so as much as I have not liked Allison being away, I have really fucking loved this like moment of being independent and like getting to do whatever I want at whatever time I want. Not that Allison's super controlling,

but we live in a small space and we have a completely different sleep cycle. So there are times we have to be quieter or, you know, she likes things cleaner. And so I've really loved this like kind of like almost bachelor year, which is great. And she's enjoyed a lot of time with her family. and I have learned a lot about living by myself and taking care of another living preacher. So anyway, I'm not trying to throw this, like, you know, big bomb on anyone.

But, you know, there's just stuff behind the scenes. And so I'm, it's like things are happening rapidly in the world, in our lives. Like, things move. I feel like things are starting to move at such a rapid pace in everyone's orbit right now. Like, I don't even know in a month where everybody will be standing what we'll be planning or doing. Like, it just feels like things are so up in the air. Well, Allison and I, the day that that guy became president again, we came up with a list of non-negotiables. And if any of those things happened, then we would leave.

And it just every day feels like we get closer and closer to that list. Have you looked? Because I've looked into it and it's like very, very difficult to get. Yes. We actually have very low qualifications to get in. Yeah. And we have, we, Allison has done obviously a lot of the type A research on all this. and I'm very grateful for her on that.

But we have a list of places we're looking at, but Canada's the dream place because it doesn't feel like we're moving too far, that too much would change. But Canada doesn't want us, it seems like. Right, right, right. Well, they've definitely had to put up some big, like, signs like, hey, slow your role. We get it. We get it.

So anyway, it's not, nothing's set in stone or set in anything. It's just, like, amongst the talks, we're just like, well, let's think of you being gone this whole time is like a potential perk in the event that something happened. So anyway, didn't mean to like throw that on everyone too. No, listen, I was curious. The world is scary. It is. That's why we drink.

And that's why we drink. And of course, if something were to happen, there will be updates along the way. But because it's so not a reality yet, it hasn't even been, you know, everyone will know. Because obviously I won't be able to shut up about it if something actually happens. Right, right, right. Anyway, story time. I think you're really going to like this one, Christine. Ah, okay.

So I was in a little bit of a pickle where I bought this really pretty dress for my friend's wedding next week. And then I was like, oh my gosh, I need some sort of like shapewear to like make it sit right on my body. And then I had this epiphany. Oh my gosh. I forgot Honey Love is a sponsor. And when I ordered from them, they sent me like this awesome shapewear. And I was like, wait a minute. So I tried it on with the dress.

and I was like, hell, hell yeah, brother, as I like to say. And that's important. Like an outfit, you got to start with the right foundation, okay? So honey love bras and shapewear give you comfort and confidence, whether you're sparkling at a holiday party, you're at a wedding in Hawaii like I am, or just in cozy sweaters. It's comfy and it does a trick. Yeah, gift honey love to yourself or to someone you love because nothing says holiday spirit like support comfort and confidence and undie bundles to make the perfect stocking stuff.

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Just use our exclusive link, honeylove.com slash drink to grab your discount. After you order, they'll ask where you heard about Honey Love. So please support our show and let them know we sent you. Celebrate the season, feeling confident and comfortable with Honey Love. I'm just in bed all. day the time all the time i work there i write there i sleep there um i eat there it's really bad but i have a helix mattress and so it's extremely comfortable and um i am trying to spread out where i do my activities but i will say that helix mattress always calls me home you know well you have

you just do like one of like the bottom left corner one at the top right corner there see one right in the center and then i think you sleep at the top i don't know actually but yeah i can make use of it it's fine it's a little bit of everything but the point is that with helix mattress you never want to leave your bed. I am currently in a hotel. I have been traveling around doing this and that and I have been away from a Helix mattress and my back can tell. Yeah, it's crazy. I'm not loving it. I really want to get back to, hmm, Helix mattress, my dog. Helix mattress, my dog. I'll never know. I don't know. They're both important to be in the same way. I want to snuggle both of them. Free shipping and seamless delivery offered by Helix. They deliver your mattress right to your door with free shipping in the U.S.

and they have a happy with Helix guarantee with seamless returns and exchanges so you can rest easy. Go to Helixleep.com slash drink for 27% off sitewide, exclusive for listeners of and that's why we drink. That's Helixleep.com slash drink for 27% off site wide, exclusive for listeners oven. That's why we drink. Helixleep.com slash drink. Okay. This is, remind me of the place you got married.

In Cincinnati? yeah uh the transept fuck i thought i thought this was never mind wrong building monastery of the center which one is it is the cincinnati music hall yeah that's next door and uh no it is basically the same because it's next door and it's um we took pictures in front of it and it's um like a huge deal in this in Cincinnati so i i am i am fucking amped i'm glad but I was real I really thought this was the place who got married because I remember

Well, that place is more of an event hall, like, sort of next to the music hall. Well, anyway, I thought you were super duper going to like this one, but you'll just super like it. I do super duper like it, because I have seen things that I saw, I saw, um, I saw lore. I saw lore, the podcast. Oh, I mean, like, I've seen shows there. And then you said, I thought you'd seen something paranormal. Oh, and you went away.

Sorry. I thought, I thought you said, you'd seen something and I thought you meant spooky. And then you said, I saw lore. And I went, what kind of fucking. Oh, my God. Okay, well, understood. The suspense. No, I saw Aaron Manky perform there on Halloween a couple years ago.

Yeah, it's a really cool spot. Well, it is incredibly super Honda, which I don't think I need to tell you. Yeah. I only know a couple stories, and they're kind of passed down, so I don't really know what's true and what's not. Well, let's see you together, because, again, these were notes I did a few days ago. It was when we were supposed to record originally. Right, right, right.

is going to be one of those moments where we learn along the way together. So this is in Cincinnati, if you can believe it, the Cincinnati Music Hall. And it is a music call. Those are the two first notes I had. Do you remember we were, we went to, we did a ghost hunting tour when I was pregnant. And when we were at that potter's field and we were like walking around with those, that was like in the park in front of wash, or in front of music hall. So that, yeah. So you've been in front of it. Funny you say that. Oh, okay.

Well, because I was going to say that they host a lot of ghost tours there, or it's a part of a lot of ghost tours in the area. And, oh, yeah, so here we go. The Cincinnati Music Hall, it is a music hall event space does both performances and exhibitions. It is a national landmark since 1975. It hosts the Cincinnati Ballet, Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra, the Cincinnati Opera, the May Festival Chorus and the Cincinnati Pops Orchestra.

But before all that, it was a Potter's Field, as you just mentioned, or a mass set of graves for unclaimed bodies. I'd love that you brought that up. I am too. I was like, it just popped in my head. I was like, well, okay, can confirm that that research was true, sick. Yay. And here we go.

In 1818, those are the earliest, that's the earliest year we can find that makes mention of these potter's fields. Although it could be older, but we know at least since 1818, there's been a potter's field there. Fun fact, Cincinnati, do you know when it was established, Christine? You don't have to know. I don't know when Fredericksburg was established. 1810? 1788.

I was going to say 1788, then I was like, maybe that's Ohio. Well, anyway. Established in 1788 and this potter's field is from 1818. So only like 30 years into Cincinnati existing. And they're like, oops, everyone's dead. What do we do? I guess we put it right here. I mean, oh, I mean, just think of, like, I mean,

imagine 30 years, that's how long we've, so if our birth was Cincinnati being established and today is when this potter's field was created, that's not a long time. It's like some of the earliest people who died in this town are buried there. It's like the first residents. Yeah.

Yeah. So some of the earliest bodies are buried in this potter's fields, and some of these earliest bodies would have been victims of, which I don't, I don't mean, to be, like, quizzing you here, but do you know some of the earliest disasters of your town? I'm guessing yellow fever? Close. I don't know.

Maybe they're the same one. Cholera. Cholera. That, yeah, I was thinking cholera, yeah. So, of all these bodies in the potter's field, a lot of them are victims of these cholera outbreaks. There was two of them. And then the Cincinnati floods. I guess there was some really gnarly floods over there.

and the Moselle explosion. Do you know about this? I have no idea what that is. Cool. So the cholera alone. Let's talk about that for a second. In the first round of cholera, which was early on in Cincinnati's history,

2% of the population died in the first outbreak, which doesn't sound like, I guess, a lot to some, but it is a lot. It's like a small percentage, but then if you think like, oh, it's a percentage of a town, yeah. Yeah, but still, if you know 100 people, two are dead now from cholera.

in the second outbreak 5,000 people died so it more than doubled and poor people were the most affected I guess because they lived by the water and water spread the cholera was not clean dirty drinking water cause of color

we also had a lot of pork production and it wasn't sanitary the way it was handled and things were just kind of dumped into the water remember that the Bobby Mackey's where the wealth went into the, it was a slaughterhouse and went to the licking river and they would just dump it in the licking river.

And so, yeah, it was like, not clean. And which is funny because now, of course, you think like, oh, waterfront property is like the most expensive. But back then it was like the poorest people lived by the water. It's funny you mentioned that too, because when I, it was my favorite fun fact when I was a Segway tour guide,

because it was in a area that now, it's in Yorktown, Virginia, which if you have a waterfront view, it's like a very shishi situation. Right, right. But lobster used to be like a disgusting food, and it was like for only poor people would eat lobster because they live by the water and it's all they can find. But now it's like, oh, I have lobster. Like it's funny how it's switched where if you live by the water.

Society is so nutty. Yeah. You're like, you were poor and now it means you're super rich. And if you live in a city, you're poor, but back then it meant you were rich. They would call lobsters like cockroaches of the sea. because they had all those like little things and they'd be like yeah these are only for like prisoners to eat and as a lobster hater they should have never changed their stance it's yeah you're like they were right the first time same with shrimp everything they all go those creepy little big mustache

feelers yeah i've stopped i've stopped um liking it as much i used to really love seafood and i think like as i get older i just have ever since i got pregnant with leona i'm kind of like turned off of it and i'm like why don't i just trust my body on that one i don't i still i still like it but i'm like i try to I don't know. It makes me kind of feel weird. Of all the things I could judge you on, that one's not going to be one of them. Thank you. I figured you'd finally support one of my food aversions, you know.

If it ain't tuna fish, I really don't want it. Yeah, I'm kind of getting there, too, honestly. So, well, the day you stop, like, in canned sardines is the day I'll respect you. Okay, that's never going to happen. anchovies, are you kidding. So, anchovies are different, okay. They're beautiful creations. Yeah. Well, I hope you enjoy them. I know I stand alone. A lot of people like canned fish, but, and I can't speak because I do like canned tuna fish, but canned sardines really is for some reason. I think because you could see this. You could see the color. I don't eat sardines. I just eat anchovies because they're, and I only eat them if they're like smaller and not like the fish. I don't want to eat a fish like that. I can't look at its face. That's so fucking eyeballs. Oh my fucking God.

Seriously. Okay, we're done. I can't even. Okay, we're done. I have to like camera falls. And we're done. And the microphone's off. So, okay. The first round of cholera plus the second round of cholera, seven percent of the population is dead. Jeez.

And poor people were most affected because they live by the water. So with so many people dying so quickly, I mean, imagine all of a sudden 7% of the population and your area just dies. It leads to mass graves because you just need to bury people fast enough. Yeah, yeah. Before they start, like, stinking up the place. Yeah, and then it's like people were...

I mean, I was going to say like it's also like not hygienic obviously to have bodies around so like you want to put them lay them down to rest. Also like the 18 whatever's like I don't think they were thinking about the biological hazards the way we do

like they're just like get rid of it you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this led to this potter's field overcrowding. It was already kind of overcrowded and now 7% of the population is there and on top of the field having too many bodies already

then a nearby steamboat called the Moselle exploded, killing half the people on board, which was about 150 people. What? Mozel? I don't even know this story. Oh, you should. M-O-S-E-L-L-E. I have to ask my brother if he ever learned about this, because I feel like that's something

I should have learned. He would know, right? He's going to be like, duh. He's going to be, what do you mean? That's actually my favorite boat or some shit like that. He's going to be like, I know. I know. Wow.

Okay, no, I had no idea. The other thing I was going to say is I feel like though when you're raised Like I feel like Cincinnati is one of those weird places though Where like we have our things that we're really proud of And that we're like these are our Cincinnati things But then there are things that you grow up And you're like I didn't know that like this

And then the other because I think it's a little bigger Than like some you know like smaller towns Where you have like your things and everyone knows it I feel like Cincinnati you get like bits and pieces Because I recently found out a few years ago That Plato was founded in Cincinnati And I'm like, my brother and I didn't know that. We're like, why don't they have like a Play-O thing at the museum?

Can you imagine a Plato factory or something? Right. I'm like, they could at least like sponsor like a room at the kids museum or something. But I'm like, it's so weird that we've never known that. It's just like, why? So that anyways. It feels very German though. Like, why would we talk about the fun?

Very good point. So. And it's just a lot full of German people? It sure is. And apparently they didn't want to talk about this boat explosion either. Yeah, they're like, why talk about bad parts of our history? That's... I can't believe it.

Yeah, we were a big river and a big steamboat town, so I can't believe I don't know about this. I'm going to look it up later. Well, let me tell you about it. Even better. Well, I'm not going to tell you, you will have to look it up later if you're interested, but I will give you a quote that I think will send you into a full-blown tizzy until you research it more. My brother, do you know about the Moselle steamboat? So I'll see what he says.

So it was a... The steamboat in town, there were three. people on board apparently all four boilers at once exploded or something something insane and half the people died instantly and here is the quote for you

that will absolutely make you want to learn everything about it about a hundred skeletons had been had to be buried here at the potter's field when the steamer Moselle exploded and blew the skulls and limbs and blackened trunks of their passengers all over the city so that falling

bodies fell through the roofs of houses and the remains of the victims were gathered together and buried in the bars field what literally okay three different sources i found is this a mandela effect i feel crazy right now that i don't know about this three different sources i looked up on this start their article with the fact that during this explosion the city rained bodies onto people's houses like like bodies were just falling from the sky like because they got you explode out of a fucking boat into the city and people it was going imagine a body just falls for your goddamn roof.

What the fuck? I cannot believe I've never heard about this. I mean, maybe I miss something because I'm like, it feels important. It certainly feels like your town's Titanic or something. Yes. Well, I mean, in Halifax, they had that big boat explosion and it, like, half the population had hearing loss and just crazy because of the impact of that. Anyway, wild.

I had no idea. Yeah. So on top of the cholera, both outbrose. breaks and this explosion and what was the other thing that people died from something else happened anyway in total the estimated bodies buried in this field today are like up to 10,000 people like it was and you can imagine with all that land I don't even think I could conceptualize what it would look like for that land to fit 10,000 bodies underneath it yeah it's got to just be like stacks and stacks and stacks of people and that's downtown now it's like the

most downtown part of the city so it's just wild to think like they were like how about here just like what it's like i mean you're probably just walking on top of people all the fucking time oh yeah apparently you are just like bodies that's why they have you give have an EMF and just wander around yeah and not only that but in the 1840s part of the land uh that was the potter's field so already has all of these bodies and thus maybe all of this energy or all these spirits and all this activity. Part of that land then built on top of it, the Cincinnati Orphan Asylum. Many of those orphans were either, they either became orphans because their parents died from these floods and cholera outbreaks, or they eventually in the asylum also died

from the cholera outbreak. So the kids were also all dying. Of course. One source said that there was also a hospital here during this time but other sources say the hospital was after the fact so I don't know which one is true um but either way many of these kids were also buried in the field and it was very convenient they were just it was their backyard was a potter's field so they just kind of dumped the kids it's crazy because that or that asylum um was this like huge gothic structure and it was like so creepy and but like really beautiful and then they just fucking demolished the whole thing and put up this in like i think the 70 or something put up this like ugly like broadcast radio local radio station and it's just a real bummer because they like point to where the asylum

was like right there behind city hall and now there's just his junky old little building but there used to be this like huge gothic like you know asylum structure thing and I'm like imagine how haunted that thing is or that fucking broadcast studio sitting right there where that asylum was that's the better question they should have had a whole Halloween segment on themselves yeah I agree well so the asylum later sold and then became a temporary version. I think this is what they mean by like maybe it was the same at the same time or maybe they were separate entities. But most sources said that the asylum sold and then became a temporary placeholder for

the commercial hospital and lunatic asylum, yikes. Ah, yes, yeah. Which they just called the pest house, which I love that like if anyone was like mentally ill, they were just a pest. You just get to the pest. Get out of here, you pest. This pesty fucking lunatic. out of my house.

Yeah, that's a wild. Put them where the orphans are where no one cares about people. Put them on top of all the dead bodies. Yikes. Jeez, Pete. So, and this was the temporary one because I guess they were building the actual hospital across the river, I think. And so this was like the temporary one to put people until they could put them in the

permanent spot. The pest house was used to keep people quarantined until they passed away, by the way. So this wasn't even really a true hospital. it was more like just a holding space until you died. Oh, to just like hide them from the general populace. Yeah. And then they could just be buried in the potter's field, which they were sitting on top of. So I feel like a lot of people are building institutions on here with like the plan to bury the people staying in that building right outside.

Yeah. One note I have is that a different source said this was also a Civil War military hospital. I don't know more about that. I only saw that on one source. Very likely. and after the permanent hospital was built this property was then bought

maybe you have context on this the property was then bought by the North American Sanger Bun Society no is that like S A with an O'Mlau and GER

like singers yeah okay so you don't know singing group I mean I know what those words mean but I've never heard of it like I know I mean like a group of singers but i'm like is this like a this is so annoying germans are so like up in everyone's i mean singer bund i would imagine means singer band right bunt is like well bunt is like to bind so like a connection so bunt is like um so like a group or like a cohesion or like a yeah a bond

a bond exactly singer bond um i'm trying to just white a white wash it american wash it English wash it as much as I can. It's plenty of whitewashed, don't worry. So, fun fact, this is where I take, I get away from this building for a second and just tell you about the Singer Bun Society. Cincinnati has lots of music and singing

societies, apparently. Do you know this? Yeah, ish, but also I never know how much is just my mother trying to, like, tell me fanciful tales and how much is real factual evidence, so. I feel like you're going to get a lecture from your mom after this. And maybe me because I'm saying the history wrong. I don't know. I think we're going to hear from her one way or another. Well, Cincinnati, maybe it's underground or maybe it's just not a

part of your Cincinnati world, but there are a lot of singing societies. Most of them, which would explain why you're not involved, most of them are made up of four-part harmony German adult men. So maybe you're just not hanging out in the right groups. No, I am. Trust me. My mother is part of the Germania German society, and they have some singing groups. Okay, great. It's definitely a thing. I think probably back then it was a much bigger deal. Like, it held the more sway than now just kind of retired men, just like singing on the

weekends with their beer. I feel like it was maybe the German or musical equivalent of like a moose lodge. Yes. And like no one does it anymore. I mean, I joined one, but then I realized nobody by age was there, so I left. Yeah, it's sort of like a relic from the. past it's still fun but like it's not as prominent as it was back then like all of our dads run bowling leagues and now no one does that right right right right so yeah this was just another

version of that um so these groups uh ended up finding others like them across the midwest there was a whole bunch i guess they found out there was a bunch of german people especially german men with an interest in singing they all got together all found each other across midwest and they called themselves the North American Sangerbun Society. And they then created the country's very first Sanger Fest, which is a traveling musical festival between different cities with big German populations. So if you go to the Minneapolis, I'm just picking a random Midwest place. Yeah, there are also a lot of Germans up there.

Yeah, Germans that are like St. Louis and Wisconsin and everywhere. Well, I guess every one of them, they every year, one of them volunteers, to have a sangher fest and everyone comes from all the Midwest cities to sing together beautiful when they hosted sangher fest in Cincinnati the society needed more space and so they quickly built onto this you know it was this asylum on top of a pottersfield that became this hospital for temporarily and now that the hospital had moved out the sangher bun society bought this so they could have their singing fraternity there i guess And then they hosted Sanger Fest and they were like, well, we could host at our place, but it's not big enough.

So we're going to build an addition. Basically, that's the spark notes of all this. So the original building plus its additions made up what would eventually be called Sanger Hall, which was it was also called the exposition building. Yeah, I know exactly. Yeah. Okay. So that's why it is so big. It's because they had to.

That's so crazy. Okay. They had to build it out for all the Midwest German. men who sing. I mean, what better reason could there be? I can't make a one. No. It also shows that, like, in the 1800s, we were just doing anything. Like, we just had nothing but time.

No, really. And then it's like, oh, well, should this be an orphanage? Maybe a hospital? Should we get a bunch of German men to sing, hallelujah in here? Like, I don't know. Whatever you want it to be, the world is your fucking oyster, dude. Also, I'm, this is not a diss to the German language, although it is, you know, stereotypically a very intense language. Imagine it's, you're on a potter's field with 10,000 dead people in the ground.

Then it was an orphan asylum where children also died and were buried on the property. And then it was a, quote, lunatic asylum where all of the mentally ill people were also, or were also buried there. And now it's just a cathedral of German singing. It's like just couldn't sound more Transylvanian to me. It is. It's haunting. Truly haunting.

Every way. I mean, imagine. Ready? Oh, boy. Slafe, kidlele, Slafe. The father huted The chaw... I'm trying to do the harmony.

The mother shittlet dreamleine Oh, wait, no, wait. The mother shittled bomelelein, a dreamlelelele. Slafe, kidlein, Slafe.

That's a lullaby. I used to see when leona was a baby i would say that for like hours so once i start get going it just like doesn't stop the way that on day one of this podcast you said i'll never speak german and now you're fucking singing it now i'm like harmonize with me yeah and also you by still having like a soft nice voice like you still didn't make it sound like that was my example to be like you can probably try to make it less like grading you know if you if I think singing also takes away a lot of the harshness because if you think about like when people sing in English and it's hard to tell if they have like an accent or if they're a dialect I feel like it takes

some of that harshness away so they're just probably tricking you that's a great point because in my head the inside of these walls sounds like oh four to not or something like yeah rammstein like blah blah blah yeah oh well thank you for the reference that actually does help but it does help you're so welcome so wow i can't get over i just i didn't even ask you to do that oh my god i don't know why that i don't know why that happened that was a that was a masterful experience um thank you so the exposition building would also host the not the first but the second may music festival oh yeah i know about this Okay, so... This is, I think, a more, like,

like, a more, like, well-known thing. And it is hosted by the music call today, right? Oh, I think so. Yeah, that probably is why. So that means the very... The second one, not the first one, but the one after that, was hosted in that building all the way back then, too.

So it's been hosted since its inception, basically. And what is the main music festival for people? It's just... What type of music is it? I've never been. I feel like it's a... As far as I, like, it was one of those things. Tell me if you have something similar.

But to me, it was like where the only people who went were, like, people's parents. It's basically like a choral, choral music festival, like, choirs. And, yeah, and it would be like, you'd have, like, my dad, I think in one of his bathrooms has, like, a poster that says, like, Mayfest, like, 1994. And it's, like, in the park. and people are saying i i don't know it just seems kind of like a very old-timey tradition um yeah i feel like it's like like a like a choral concert or something yeah yeah it's like not necessarily my jam you not me me either if someone invited me i think i would say no thank you um i would be like what's the food situation you know like are there what's chaos do i have to sit and watch the

whole thing or can i like what do i have to wear is a good question how long will it be what's Like, I'm going to send you, as an example, a picture of, like, one of the events in music hall. And, like, I think you and I would be so far away from this that we wouldn't even be on the same orbit as these people, if this were occurring anywhere nearby. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm not sitting in one of those chairs down there and watching this. I'm good. I'm good. And I, to the people who love that, I'm so glad for you. I respect music of all sorts. It's just not for me this kind. We all know I like the whimsy, and there just isn't anything whimsical about that.

Yeah, we need a lot more droplet dazzle-d. That's something with ADD, ADHD. I really need someone to... Like, my palms are sweating, looking at those rows of seats where you're in the middle and you can't get out, and everyone near you is wearing, like, wool or tweed. Yeah.

Also, you know what it is? I think it's because it looks like a place where I can't laugh. And I, if I'm not allowed to giggle somewhere, then I don't really want to be there. Fair enough. Okay. Anyway, they hosted the second May music festival here. And something very historical to this insane musical happens at the second May music festival.

A fire? No, something less intense than that. Oh, whoa, lo, well. But, okay. The president came? No. Okay. A thunderstorm came.

Oh. And this music festival was attended by a big businessman in the area named Ruben Springer. If Springer means anything to you in Cincinnati, it is about him. He went to this music festival at the exposition building, which would one day be the musical. Sorry, what year was this like the 1880s or something? I don't. It was in the 1870s. Okay, okay.

I'm just trying to get my brain to picture Ruben Springer correctly. Sure. Which, by the way, reminder that 1818 to the 1870s is not a long time for this many dead people to now be in the ground. You know what I mean? And like, oh, yeah, only a couple decades, true. Yeah. So a lot of histories already happen here. That's crazy.

But then Ruben Springer comes to the May Music Festival and there is a horrendous storm outside. And remember I told you that they were going to host music festivals at this place. The Sanghaven Society was going to host music festivals here, but they didn't have enough space. so they kind of just slapped together as much additional space as possible. Yeah. So they did it with really cheap materials just to get it up in time.

That's not very German of them. And basically, Ruben Springer went to this thing and he was pissed that this world-class music that was being performed here not only, I'm sure, visually didn't look its best,

but he couldn't fucking hear anything because the acoustics were so bad because the storm outside was just pouring in through these like very thin wooden walls. It had a fucking tin roof. So like, remember we had a show at a place that had a tin roof and it was storming outside and no one could even hear us? And we kept thinking it was aliens and everyone was like, it's, it's rain or hail.

I'm like, it's at least hail. That's interesting, guys. Like, I mean, we had fucking microphones on a stage and people could not hear us. It was so loud. It was like, who built a tin roof over a comedy club? What is it wrong with you? Anyway, the thunder outside and the rain outside was distracting him from the music so much. and he was this big rich man

that he was like fuck this and he basically he made the director or the conductor or whatever literally paused the performance halfway until the storm could continue which has to be so embarrassing that fucking bold that you're just like

I'm just going to get up and stop him real quick did he just shout from the audience he was like make it stop like halt everybody stop cut it's like cut you're not what the fuck you're not the conductor also like we were just saying it doesn't even look like you're allowed to laugh in there let alone like stop the performance in the middle of it as an audience member fucking guy well this all had springer so up in arms that he decided he was going to

create the Cincinnati Music Hall Association and he fundraised the demolition of the exhibition building you know he also had like a tiff or something with somebody there had there he had to have a personal like a girl projected him there or something or like one of these sang her buns like stole his girlfriend or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. He's just that good of a singer could never be me.

Man. So he was like, fine. I'm actually going to demolish this entire fucking building on the property. Fine. But I'm going to construct on top of it, the Cincinnati Music Hall. Okay. And so the only reason the Cincinnati Music Hall stands today is because this guy didn't like the last one had a tin roof, basically. Fair enough.

I should thank you, sir, Rubin. And in 18, it was getting built from 1876 to 1878. and the construction of course I did the math for you it was a it was a 20,000 square foot music hall still is I think or maybe it's grown and it costs 300 grand back then in the 1870s 300,000 oh my god you want to take a whack at how much that is today 6 million 9 million 9 million oh my lord in heaven and Springer paid for over half of it himself oh wow I can't imagine in hating something so much that I'm willing to spend $4.5 million at least

probably $5 or $6 million to make a different version of it. To be like fix the roof. Like what kind of money? That's some Taylor Swift fucking money. It'd be like, oh, here's six mil. That's like when they say like, oh, that would be the equivalent of like $40 to you.

It's like that is probably what it was like. Yeah. Yeah. But during this construction, this is where they found the first round of human remains from the potter's fields. Did they forget they were there? I guess they fucking forgot.

It's like, it's like what, 60 years ago, right? Yeah. So I guess if you dig deep enough. And so the papers at the time said that it wasn't just like a little bit of human rains. Boxes of bones were being pulled out of the ground during this excavation. Ooh. Boxes and boxes and boxes of bones. And the remains had not been dug up until now, even though something else had been built on the property.

Right. because it was all so slapped together that they never went deep enough into the foundation to find bodies. Oh, so they were like, we're good until now. Which also like there was a hospital, there was a whole orphanage here, like, and they just never actually structurally built this thing properly. Yeah, well, it didn't matter then, but now that Rubin's going to have a seat in this place, we got to make it tip top, baby. Well, so unsure what to do with the remains, some not all were brought to Spring Grove Cemetery. Can you imagine if this is the cemetery you live on top? Papa. That'd be crazy. I live right by it. It's huge. It's one of the, it's like the biggest in town,

and it's very famous. And it's like an arboretum and the gardens. Like you can do like all these big garden tours. It's, I've done them a lot because my stepmom's really into plants. And they do a lot of tours and stuff. My mom just did one there. And we used to go bike riding and there. It's beautiful. Perfect. Well, yeah, very haunted and very big. And it is literally four minutes. It's like two or three minutes, maybe by car. L.O.L. At least it's a the one that you live on. No, thankfully. That would be wild. So these remains were brought to Spring Grove Cemetery. At least some of them were, and that becomes a

constant thing as more and more remains are found. That only some of them are brought to the cemetery, and some of them are just reburied somewhere else on the current Pottersfield property. I don't know why they pick, how they picked that. Determine that. That's kind of creepy. Well, in the 1920s, so that was in the 1870s. They were digging all this up, and they found all these boxes. boxes. Right. In the 1920s, that's 50 years later, during another wave of construction, workers unearthed three coffins, and one was actually, interestingly enough, was from a,

one of the coffins had a fully legible headstone from the 1830s, which was almost 100 years old at the time. Wow. And it was perfectly legible. And it was underground? It was underground. It's underground. Wow. Which like, what is that story? It just like dumped on top of it. Yeah, oh, it's so creepy, dude. Before they could do anything about these bodies, some grave robbers heard about it and stole some of the pieces. But as for the rest of the remains, they were reburied not just on the property, but in the new elevator shaft they were constructing in that moment. Yes, I know that story. I know of that story vaguely that the elevator shaft has body. Yeah, yeah. I can't understand why on earth you would go,

oh my God, we found bodies under this building we're trying to build. Let's put them back in the building at a different spot. How does that fucking make sense? It's a very Christine move. Well, there's a hole. We just does. That fixes the problem. Maybe they were on time crunch.

I don't know. Well, soon after this, construction workers found even more remains. Uh-oh. Including in one of the locations, they found 65 graves. Jesus. And they nicknamed that area, the Valley of Death. Woof. Okay.

God. That's a lot. So that's 65. then, and that's just in one section they found. There was other bodies they found. Then the three bodies they put in the elevator shaft. Then the boxes of bodies from 50 years ago. And now in 1969, even more remains were found under the auditorium.

And in 1988, the same remains buried under the elevator shaft were found again. Okay, that's what I knew, but that they found bodies. So I thought I had it mixed up, but it was just they also put them there. Then later they were dug up. They found them there. They put them back in there. Then they were found again. and I'm assuming they found additional remains nearby but what's extra creepy

so let's go back to what year was that that found the elevator shaft story that was oh the first one the 19 where the fuck was the elevator shop oh okay so in the 1920s they found those three coffins one with a fully legible headstone right and then grave robbers came and took some of it, but whatever was left, they put in the elevator shaft. So it was found in the 1920s, put in the elevator shaft at that point. And then 60 years later, in the 80s, they were re-found. But what you didn't know before this moment was that there were several other remains nearby, and only three of them had been found previously.

This is crazy. It's like every 20 years, they're like, they must know what's going to happen. It happens every time. It's like, imagine one of those cameras we can see a body under the ground. Just scanning the whole floor. I mean, it would just be like, and I guess I get it. Like, what are you going to do? Tear the whole building down so you can, I mean, I don't know what you would do, but

it's just like bananas to me. The extra eerie thing of, like I said, not just finding those three bodies, but to know in future hindsight that there was actually several more bodies they had, they were just, they were a digging next to, but didn't know about. In the 80s, when they found these remains that everyone knew about, what they ended up finding, in addition to that, was over 200 pounds of bones. Oh, God. And then they were all reburied in another area on the property.

Not Spring Grove Cemetery, just another area on the property. So they just keep finding and reburying, finding and reburying on the same fucking property of these bones. And it's like bones. So it's not like every person gets their own plot. It just feels like they're kind of just getting tossed in. Some of them, some of these remains specifically, were transferred to the, University of Cincinnati for research.

But most of them were just re-buried on the property again, which like, this is in the 1980s. Like, that feels recent enough that we should have known to put them in a fucking cemetery. Yeah, I wonder if it was like, there's like a precedent. Like, oh, well, if you find bodies in a spot

that used to be a graveyard, you can't, like, move them. You know, maybe there's something like that. But it seems weird because it's like, it was a... You're still uprooting it and putting it somewhere else. It was kind of a half-ass graveyard. It wasn't really official. It was just kind of slap shod, like, thrown together. Well, most recently, in 2016, 2017, which is not that long ago, that's within the last 10 years, construction under the, either under the orchestra pit or near the orchestra pit, had people finding

even more remains this time they found four more bodies and six graveshafts. Jesus And they were anticipated to be re-buried in Spring Grove Cemetery It's assumed that they were But I did not see any update Like the article I found was like

The breaking news We found more fucking bodies here Can you believe it? And then it was like We're... The one's like, yeah, we can And they were like The plan is Spring Grove Cemetery

But I don't know if that actually happened Oh, okay, I never like, yeah So anyway, these are just two Oh my favorite quotes that I found In all these articles Each time construction is done at the Cincinnati Music Hall, more bones are unearthed. Not a foot of ground lies under the exposition building

unoccupied by moldering bones. On top of this, Cincinnati Music Hall is near other formal burial grounds. Washington Park used to be a spot with multiple burial grounds all sharing the same property. So it was like two or three different burial grounds all combine into one big plot. And then they just built Washington Park on top of it.

Yeah, and it's beautiful and it has a dog park and it's free and they have a bar and they have like outdoor bar and they do shows in flea markets and like craft fairs and it's right in front of city hall. It's so beautiful. And then inevitably, if I'm your friend and I'm there with you, I go, hey, guess what? And the place is like, don't start. And then I'm like, there goes underneath us. All I'm saying is that first thing you said was dog park. First thought I had was so the dogs can literally dig up bones. I mean, yeah, probably.

And Hank Wood, by the way, he's in a real digging phase these days. Oh, that's rough because Gio does that too and it really fucks with my yard. Oh, my yard. I have like three feet of green, but he fucks that up. One of the things I've had to learn is how to like replant like all this stupid fucking grass. He literally ripped my whole rose bush out. I'm like, that's the only plant I have. Leave it alone.

He's truly a living, breathing, dousing rod because the way that he, he always digs and finds like a really intense water source. Isn't that so creepy? he is a dowsing rock like at the dog park he i'm so sorry to everyone not that dog park he dug a real crater recently and he found literally the pipes that led to like the water fountain and it was like i was like how did you know that i was there anyway he's a super dog just pain in my ass so yes anyway fun fact over 80 bodies uh were uh oh were found okay yeah yeah so we were talking about Washington Park when they were building Washington

Park's parking garage, if you know where that is. Yes. That alone, during excavation, they found 80 bodies. Oh, because it's under, it's actually under the park. So that would make sense because you have to climb up into the park. Oh, so it really is just

like, it's just everywhere. Right in there. We're just surrounded. So it's not even the Cincinnati Musical, although that is my topic today. It's just the areas everywhere are just everything. is just a potter's field in Cincinnati. Wow. Yeah, I guess so.

Oops. So for obvious reasons, many people believe Cincinnati Music Call is haunted. I mean, the bodies alone, but the fact that there's also so much dark history, there was the explosion, the color outbreaks, the floods, there's the orphanage. There was a, quote, lunatic asylum. And a lot of people with, like, who probably just had some rough look, all getting buried there. And then bodies were being found and re-buried and found and re-buried, so they've had no closure.

And just, like, discarded or re-buried. And also, like, I'm assuming a lot of these people are nameless, identityless, and... Yeah, they're a potter shield. They were unclaimed bodies, so we don't know if they were. Right, unclaimed. And on top of that, like, you have a place where people are performing and people are getting emotional, I mean, as emotional as you can get at, like, a choir show. But, you know, like others, like an opera or like people are like theaters, you know,

they're already really active energetically. So that would probably just mix it all up, you know? Yeah. Or like, what if you're singing a song from their favorite time, Peter? or something, you know, and I'm sure there's... Is that it? Is that the one? I was thinking, I mean, I don't know what song I was thinking, but I'm sure there's something where like you're accidentally like, not conjuring something, but you're inviting

stuff in or, you know, something like that. Connecting with something. Connecting or anything. Welcoming people in, welcoming spirits and. Yeah. Anyway, it's just super fucking haunted. The travel channel actually named us one of the most terrifying places. in America. Congratulations, Christine.

People, it's just some of the things people report. They report an eerie stillness when they're alone, a sense of dread when they're alone, something staring at you, cold chills despite the heat outside or even inside, they'll just be like pockets of really weird air. People feel a presence near the ballroom. They'll see shadows and photos. They hear something being dragged through the halls. I actually, there was one guy who said that he,

it sounded like someone was dragging their boots and a gun through the hall and I was like, that's fucking intense. Wait! I feel like they told us that on the ghost tour

or on one of the ghost tours where they said like it sounded like the dragging. Yeah, ew, I feel like I've heard that. Which is, would have, although I didn't see this

in a lot of sources, that would validate the history that this was a Civil War hospital at one point. True, true, true. But it sounded like a guy who was just dragging, like, his gear through the hall. It's like rifle or something.

Yeah. People also hear angry whispering. They hear maniacal laughter. They hear giggling. They hear doors opening and closing by themselves. They hear heavy footsteps that don't seem to be hiding that they're heavy footsteps. There's very loud. Phantom violin music.

There's a woman singing in the halls in the morning. There are a lot of security guards who are like, I know that I'm alone here. and yet it sounds like there's five people upstairs. That's, yeah, when the security guard gets freaked out, that's what I'm like, okay, I trust you because you are supposed to know these things. Yeah. Somehow, I don't know how she did it,

but she's done it again. The fucking Lady and White was there. Oh, she's everywhere. Of course, she's going to go to a Zengabunt festival. She heard my lullaby. She's like, I'm here for eternity and you're telling me that there's singing. I'm absolutely like, I am so convinced at this point

that it is only. one fucking woman in white and she just knows the way through every portal into every haunted location oh you're right and she's just like kind of summoned she just like follows a wind you know wherever it takes you i'm so over her she is all over the place um i can't get enough of her i'm if you know if i am to be a ghost that haunts i hope i have the superpowers she does i mean you literally dressed as her you must even though you you have like a frenomy thing going on i think there's a it's you know i haven't admitted to myself yet that it's a jealousy means a little something yeah i just don't know how to you just don't know how to you have you

she does it and like stay out of my stories i'm so tired of you like give so it else a chance this isn't about you so uh yeah a woman in a white dress has been seen uh apparently dancing as if she is having a good time at this singing musical stuff also there are formally formally formally dressed very fancy people dancing together in one of the rooms another woman is seen dancing by yourself or she'll walk down the hall and turn and see you and then she'll fade away in front of you People have also seen apparitions in old-fashioned fancy clothes watching the performances and thought they were actors. So they were sitting next to someone in the audience and was like, oh my God, this is like so

immersive, fun. What? That is creepy. And it was just like someone that does not exist. Hey, the Houdini show should do a show here because I feel like that would be right in line with their whole thing, you know. Do you imagine if they accidentally summoned Harry Houdini? That'd be crazy.

How fucking cool. finally I know I've been waiting for that one took them long enough so um no a lot of people have said like after the fact oh my god I love that you guys used actors in the audience so it felt like we were all really there yeah like no it wasn't us um others have watched shadow people walk through the theater and the halls from one end of the room to the other actually a lot of staff said that in interviews but they were like heard that I'd be looking up and I would look at one of the halls um from downstairs and I'd look up and I would just see a full person just walk across and as if that's not cool and that feels like very theater like I feel like a lot of theaters have like people walking on like a catwalk or like in the audience like shadow figures I don't like that I've been saying that a lot to myself recently when I'm just like that I don't like that I just simply don't I don't know what we're going to do about that but what more do you want I don't like that actually employees oh no one employee this is a good one employee was actually on stage with his kid who was about Leona's age when the theater was empty I guess I guess doing some last minute work or rehearsing or something. And the kid asked, who is that daddy who's sitting in the box and waving at us? No, thanks. And the theater was totally empty. So that was in box number nine.

I guess box nine has it known to be the haunted box. Interesting. Investigators have also sat on the stage and seen someone from the seats waving at them, which confirms what this little kid said. But they have just been standing on stage. and all of a sudden you just see someone stand up from the seat and just wave at you. It's like so intentional.

That's what creeps me out is like it's intentional. I can get. And like they clearly see you. I can get behind it being residual and like we're, you know, you're walking across the hall because that's what you were doing right before you died. But like the second, you're intelligent and you know that I'm looking for you. And then you stand up and literally put yourself in front of us. Which like, again, we've said this a million times.

But how funny is that they're like they're doing exactly what we want and they're thinking they're probably making us so happy. And then we're just like, oh, get away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're like, oh, we're just trying to, yeah. Well, oh, this also most happens in box nine, or in the box nine seats.

And the seats in the theater are also spring loaded, by the way. So as soon as someone gets out of them, they should pop back up. And there are some seats that will just stay down no matter what. And it's only when you feel like someone's staring at you. Yuck, because they do. They're like those old-timey seats It's just like, boing, right back up.

And it just, someone's sitting there. Another person saw a balloon with a weight on it, I guess, to like be a centerpiece at a table, watched it float down the hallway. And the words they actually used was it hopped down the hall by itself. No, thank you. Like a little kid took it. Oh, yeah. One employee actually heard, kept hearing the, over at the box office, he kept hearing like the concierge bell,

or the customer service bell dinging. And when he would check, nobody was there. Then he would leave and he'd hear the dinging again. He'd come back out. Nothing was there. He'd leave and the thinging would happen. And eventually, the last time he checked it, he felt something tug on his shirt.

And when he looked down, he saw a whole ass child in old-fashioned clothing. Staring at him. Which, like, it didn't even occur to me. That could be one of the kids from the orphanage. Yeah. Yeah. There are other little kid apparitions all seen through the building, especially...

I've heard the kids' ones. It's always surprised me that I guess it does make sense with that orphanage. Because I was like, this place isn't like very kid friendly, but that does... Yeah. They must be from the orphanage. But they're seen a lot. That would also explain some of the giggling that people hear. If anyone has ever felt their own clothes being tugged, maybe it was a kid.

Right. And in one area of the theater that's now like the backstage area right behind the curtains, apparently one group saw a little girl over there she just appeared in front of them and told them not to go in the basement because bad things happened there and when they looked back she had totally she was gone and what do you think happened in the basement I have no idea but in my mind the basement is where they all got buried

right I don't like that like did something worse happen did anything else happen yeah did something happen to her have she buried there I have no idea but she just went away and nobody knew who this little girl was they she she should yeah now the freight elevator which the elevator shaft stories the freight elevator used to move all by itself between floors even when nobody was pressing a button to even call the elevator employees would say this one guy in particular he had a very creepy interview where he was like you would be 50 feet away from

the elevator and you would watch the button turn on like as if someone called the elevator in front of you and then the elevator would start moving to your floor and then you're like do i walk backwards yeah like uh you i'll take the next one do you You want me to go in there? Or are you calling it for me? Yeah, like, oh, God. The creepiest accounts are definitely the security guards there. There was one watchman who heard knocking on the main door when it was snowing out.

And when he went to look out, there was nobody there. And there were no footprints in the snow leading up to the theater. Oh, God. Another time he heard music playing from nowhere. And so he went looking for it. And when he got on the elevator, his whole body started to tingle. and for like days after that he could not go to the elevator without his body getting the same tingling feeling what is that about i have no fucking clue but i certainly hate it i also hate it thanks another watchman this is a quote who said you hear music playing somewhere late at night when you know no one is there and when you get there you find it coming from some other place you go to that place and then you hear it coming from another place so the music would you would play chase with this music yes okay and then another quote this is a long one one, but it's super worth it.

The weirdest and strangest noises would occur at intervals all night long. Wrappings on the ceiling, under the floor, on the doors and windows, the sound of stealthy footfalls behind me, or of loud trampling before me, the crash of heavy timbers thrown from the ceiling, glass dashed upon the floor, of heavy bodies being dragged over the planks. They never touched me, but I always knew when they were around by an icy chill, a thrill as of electricity, a feeling that what the French call a poe de paulet or goose flesh, goosebumps, they never annoy me now by mere knocking and wrapping because I've gotten used to it, so used to it that sometimes when people have really knocked at the door, I didn't open

because I thought it was only the dead that kept knocking, knocking, knocking. Whoa, so they're like, oh, it's a ghost. And I'm like, no, this time it's actually a real person. It's like, I'm actually out here. So, surprise. Despite the activity, none of the spirits seem dangerous which is good but that's good for those who are skeptical one of the music directors literally said okay then come here at 3 a.m. and like yeah challenge them it's okay yeah you fucking be security um the only tv show I saw that has been here was not ghost adventures but goes hunters and for those who can access it um it is season nine episode 26 but it is nearly impossible to find unless you're willing to like get one of those like weird

random side channels oh yeah and like download something shady yeah um so i did not watch it but it does exist and uh if you're interested the music hall does have uh it is a location on many ghost tours and i think they do their own ghost tours too they do that's newer that was when i moved away and i remember being like damn it like well of course now they do it but yeah i haven't been yet i would love to go go get you a ticket but next year anyway that is this insane music hall i'm sorry it was so long but i wanted to get everything so i wanted to do your town justice that was so lovely i feel like i learned so much. I had no idea. I feel like those people at the bookstore

learning from our wonderful book. Well, now you can go over to Leona and be like, did you know? And then she can tell all of her little kid friends to be like, there are bodies in there. They're dead bodies everywhere. My mommy told me all about it. Yeah. It's normal. It's normal behavior. Oh my gosh. Cool story. We all know Christine is not the world's biggest horror movie fan. However, the movie Keeper is coming out. I'm very excited about it. It's going to be a good one. I'm committing to the bit. It's going to be a good one. From Osgood Perkins, the director of

Long Legs on the Monkey, comes a new breed of nightmare and master of horror, James Juan, creator of the Conjuring Praises Keeper as a terrifying ghostly descent into madness, which is 10.10 to me. Don't miss the horror event of the season. Keeper opens in theaters nationwide, November 14th. Christine, I'm bad with my money. no yeah uh well just ask all the Pokemon in my binder um but luckily these days you know we have chime it helps us so much it certainly helps me and um it takes away a lot of the headaches that i've got going on it you know all the way down to what was it overdraft fees in college

that was a struggle so when you set up direct deposit through chime you get access to fee free features like free overdraft coverage getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit and more you can learn more about that at chime.com slash drink to date chime spotted members over $30 billion, not to mention access to over 47,000 fee-free ATMs, which is hard enough as it is, you know, to find a fee-free ATM. So that's more than the top three national banks combined. So I think that's an easy yes from me. It certainly is for someone who has about a thousand Pokemon screaming out of the binder that I need to stop.

I can use a helping hand along the way to being a Pokemon master. Work on your financial goals through Chime today. open an account in two minutes at chime.com.com slash drink. That's chime.com slash drink. Chime feels like progress. Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank, banking services and debit card provided by the bank or bank or stride bank N.A. Members FDIC. Spot me eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Timing depends on submission of payment file. Fees apply at out of network ATMs. Bank ranking and number of ATMs. According to U.S. News and World Report 2023. Chime checking account required. Okay. So we are back from the intermission. Speaking of

music hall. We just had a lovely, classy intermission. We played soft classical piano in the back. That's right. We said things like, Ciao, chow. And Rubin, do pass the potted quail. Do you fetch me a pail of crystal? I don't know, fucking know. Yep, that's what we said. And it was a good. Bizu, Bizu, Bizu. Okay, here we go.

4.57 is today's episode, and I'm going to tell you the story of a young woman who was the source of quite a lot of mystery in Sumpter County, Florida for many decades. This is the case of Little Miss Lake Panasovsky. And I'll explain all that. But first note here is that February 19th, 1971, a woman's remains were found beneath the northbound span of I-75 in Sumter County, Florida, near the Lake Panasovsky overpass. For almost 55 years, her identity was unknown, and she was referred to only as Little Miss Lake Panasovsky. But just five days ago, as we record this, like this past week, they have revealed the identity of... Oh, get out. Wow. I know. I was, like, looking at different stories. I'm like, this one's interesting.

And then I saw, like, the, the timestamp. And I was like, a week ago. So this is a very timely story. And she's no longer at Jane Doe. So, you know, there's a little bit of closure here. So let's get into it. February 19, 1971, two teenage hitchhikers find the partially submerged body of a young woman under the I-75 bridge at Lake Panasofsky, Sumter County, Florida. the remains were badly decomposed and at the scene investigators found that a men's size 36 leather belt

had been fastened around her neck and this indicated ligature strangulation investigators estimated she was between 17 and 24 years old 5 foot 2 to 5 foot 5 and about

115 pounds they could tell that after being strangled with the belt she had then been wrapped in a blanket and thrown off the bridge off the overpass it's just like Horrific.

She was clothed in a green shirt, green plaid pants, and a green floral poncho-style shawl, and she wore a gold watch, a gold necklace, and a ring with a transparent stone on her left-hand ring finger. There were no missing person's report that matched her profile, so they buried her locally, and she became known in the community as Little Miss Lake Panasovsky. Okay. 15 years later, 1986, the body was exhumed for further forensic work, because obviously technology had advanced by then. Not quite enough, but it had advanced. Investigators determined she had given birth to at least two children before her death. So she was presumably a mother in some sense.

She had extensive dental work, including a porcelain crown on an upper right tooth. And she had had an operation on her right ankle, excuse me. Over the decades, investigators would release information about her trying to get anybody to submit a tip or say, like, that sounds like my aunt or my long-loss mother. or something. And so they would release these details and they would also release multiple facial reconstructions to try and figure out there are a bunch of them that they've made over the years of different ways she might have looked. And how many people did you say reached out? Did you say? Because that's a lot of, I mean, everyone, I feel like knows someone has had an operation on their ankle or like, like, it's not a lot to go off of. But I mean,

but if you're, but if you're, if you're like 17 to 21, 22 and you've had an operation on your ankle, I feel like that narrows it down, but like nobody, nothing, nobody, nobody reported this person missing, no clue. So over the decades, investigators released multiple facial reconstructions that show, or the story was even featured on a 1992 episode of Unsolved Mysteries. And some tips did come in, but there was no positive identification. Now we really fast forward to 2012. Further forensic examinations, including isotope tests. suggested the victim may have grown up in southern Europe near Athens, Greece. Okay, interesting.

I'm really throwing a wrench at you here. What is isotope testing specifically? I'm so glad you asked because I did go through like a minor rabbit hole on Reddit. So I've heard you say it before, but I don't know what it is. And I believe it's called like a kind of a pseudosciencey hokey kind of thing. I don't know if that's. true but I feel like people argue about the validity um it is I don't I'm not like super I know

you're going to be shocked to hear this I'm not super smart um it's okay I knew I was like really like you that was you know that like have you heard of when people say oh um like we looked at their dietary and like where they might have grown up or the the calcium in their teeth or something and that's what they do to then determine where they may have grown up sure so like I don't know if they tested her hair or her teeth or what but something that they tested led them to believe she had grown up near Greece sure um and had arrived in the US and I think they can also tell through your hair like what you've been eating and drinking and I think there are some some ways that you can test so I don't know I don't want to say it's a bunk science I've no idea but um I mean I've

heard you say it truly i've heard it on law and order like i i just don't know i just i think it's just basically taking elements of like in trying to geographically trace them back yeah yeah yeah so they determined she had been only in the u.s only one to three months before being killed so this obviously narrowed it down quite a bit and as a result the case was then featured on a greek tv show and this led one woman in greece to call in a tip that she believed this woman was a friend named constantina that she had lost touch with. This was a classmate she'd known from prep school in Greece where they were being trained to be domestic help.

And as part of a work contract, Constantina had arrived in the United States within that one to three month period where they had claimed that she had entered the states. Although this seemed to promising, it ended up being another dead end. And the woman was not, in fact, the Greek Constantina. So despite all these investigative efforts over the years, five decades passed with no identity for this young woman.

Now we zoom to last week. October 2025, Sumter County Sheriff's Office announced last week that Little Miss Lake Panasovsky has been positively identified. On October 1st of 2025, latent prints from the 1971 case were submitted through a, quote, storm automated biometric identification system. So what's that one? Yeah, thanks.

This is not a bunk science. It is an automated system that has only been recently put into place in Florida. And it is a way to, you know, biometrics where they take your fingerprint and your facial recognition and all that shit. They have like a very state of the art system to trace fingerprints and other biometrics. And they had latent prints from 1971 from that case, but they hadn't run it through this new storm system. Oh, okay, cool. So they did in October last month, and they got a match. And it was like, holy shit. And it was a match for her, like her fingerprints. So cool. So they put the prints in and they matched a 1970 arrest record of a 21-year-old woman in Hillsborough

County named Maureen, Maureen. She had been born March 21st, 1949, and to her family, she was known as Cookie. That was her nickname. Cookie Rowan was born in Maine but lived in Tampa and was estranged from her husband, Charles Emery Rowan Sr. She also had ties to Jacksonville, Gainesville, and Enigma, Georgia, and she'd only been 21 when she was murdered. Side note here, the sheriff's office clarified that the initial assumption of the isotope testing of her being a Greek immigrant was inaccurate because apparently the isotope test that they performed on her had been contaminated by the formaldehyde gel that they used back in the 70s. And this formaldehyde gel on the body

apparently sent them like to Greece. They were like, oh, she's from Greece, but it was just that. So I think that's why it got a little, it gets flack because there are some. Never even recurred to me, by the way, formaldehyde could be a gel. Like that's, you're just, formaldehyde gel. You're saying a lot of things to me that they didn't even know it existed. Yeah, that's kind of an icky one. And the fact that they like, it says it was used in embalming in the 70s. And I'm like, I betcha they don't even use that anymore. I bet you there's just like, no, I'm sure they really.

Firmaldehyde gel somewhere in a basement of music hall or something. I know. I was literally going to, you said it first. Creepy. Oh my gosh. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. No, no. And so I thought that was interesting because it's like, I guess if isotopatose can get

contaminated by like embalming fluids, then like, yeah, it is a little shadier than, I don't know, whatever. Yeah, it feels like, I always. Not as foolproof, maybe. Yeah, I always think that new technology is like, like you're, like, that we're already considering that it could, like, we're already making it in a way where that it won't get in the way of, like, I don't really know what I'm saying, but I would, I would imagine that if I built something to help identify people, it would first occur to me that like, we don't want things in the system to, to mess all that up. I don't know. I don't really. know what I'm saying. I just, I think of it as more foolproof every time when I, when I think Oh, yeah. Like when I think of new technology, I think of other factors not getting in its way. I just always think of it as like pretty. No, you're right. Especially because like that was in 2012

and that was like very advanced, you know, for the time. And it was like clearly like got a lot of leads and went to Greek television. And it's like, oh, shit. Even in 2012 like we're, which makes you think, like, what now are we completely botching that we don't even realize? Yeah, yeah, I just, I would, I would think that if it's being, if it's been built and is being used, then we've already considered that it, that nothing is going to get in its way, and like the test results are going to be accurate or like. Right, it's like a lie detector where it's like not allowed as evidence in court, but it's still used, even though it's not foolproof and like, it's used as like a tool, but it's not necessarily used. full proof um yeah so that's kind of how i how i think about it um it's interesting though like the the idea of isotope testing um one day can you cover instead of doing like a like a true crime case would you just do an episode where you just like talk about all the different like

ways that they are able like all the techniques they are able to use to identify people yeah yeah yeah because like isotope testing or like yeah like all the things that they talk like codis like all the things that they use and how they what they actually all do. Oh my God. I could probably end up doing a whole fucking series. I feel like that would be a nice one-on-one of like, what the fuck are cops actually? What's at their disposal? What are like investigators using?

Like what tools? Yeah. Yeah. That's really interesting. I would love to look into that because I don't know too much. Okay. So we are back to October of this year. Sheriff Patrick Breeden stated, this case has been a mystery in Sumter County for almost

almost 55 years. Today, Little Miss Lake Panasofsky finally has a name. At the time of her death, 21-year-old Cookie Rowan lived at 1206 Windermeer Way in Tampa with her two young children. But strangely, nobody had reported her missing at the time of her disappearance. Yeah, or like, who's watching her kids? Yeah. So investigators said they interviewed people who knew her, and as a result, began focusing on her estranged husband. Of course, Charles Emery Rowan, senior, because why didn't he report her missing? Well, I know who the prime suspect was. Yeah, he's definitely a person of interest. And what they said about this was Emory's actions leading up to the separation and continuing after the discovery of Cookie's body are suspicious enough to list him

as a person of interest. Captain Galvin said, but they don't have enough evidence to label him as a suspect and he died in 2015. So there's no questioning him. So, you know, if something comes out, any other way that that's possible to get more clarity but we don't really know he is a person of interest though captain john galvin of the sheriff's office says part of their investigation now that they've identified her body and have a person of interest is trying to figure out why nobody reported her missing in 1971 um he said what he had heard through interviewing um family members and people who knew her is that there was some suggestion that her husband told family members that she left on her own and didn't want to be bothered, you know, or what

have you. So we don't really know what happened, but her kids are still alive and have spoken out about this. And that breaks my heart because apparently it's been, it's been intimated, let's say it that way. And I've kind of inferred that the kids were told this story that their mom just left and abandoned them. Which alone is traumatic. Right. And then 55 years later to find out like, oh, she was murdered right, like, in our town. I mean, it's just a really jarring thing. As for what else we don't quite know yet.

And again, this is like a very recent development that we even know who it is. October 1st is when they found out or at least when they submitted the prince. And like by the end of the month, they're like, we know who she is. we have her kids here at the press conference like it's just wild how things move so fast i was to say it almost makes me angry like how did we get all this in 24 hours when i've been waiting this long for anything like it just went from nothing to everything i'm telling you i'm like there's something going on where it's just like things are going faster and faster faster like technology like our our situations are our political atmosphere it's just like everything

is like imploding at one it feels like Like, I feel like next month it's going to be where we don't even know what the state of the world, what our lives are going to be like. Like, things are moving so fucking fast. It's whiplash, constant whiplash. Yes. And so that's why I'm just like so startled because I'm like, wow, within a month, like they have all this information. So hopefully, essentially, what I'm saying is I don't have the newest, obviously, like, I don't have the current investigation information. but they are definitely looking into this further, of course.

What we don't know is the exact timeline of Cookie Rowan's movements before her death. We know investigators estimate about 30 days between her death and when her body was found. Okay. The exact location of the homicide is unknown. Remember, they put her in a blanket and disposed of her at the bridge, but we don't know where she was actually killed. Sure. We don't know the motive or the co-conspirators. if there were any, um, despite her estranged husband being a person of interest, there have been no charges publicly disclosed.

And he's still alive? No, he died in 2015. Oh, okay. So there's no way to get, you know, obviously any, any more information from him directly. But like, who knows in his stuff or with, or maybe he talked to someone or maybe he has, who knows? I mean, it's so frustrating, though, because it's like, we were just talking about, oh, we got so much information.

But it's also like, I guess I kind of got no information. It's like, well, we know who she is. is and I guess that's closure but it's still like well what the fuck happens but think about what a wealth of information you suddenly have like you literally had nothing and now it's like oh we have like an entire family dynamic the kids are here they know their dad like you know he has relatives he lived till 2015 so he had a computer he had a phone like maybe they can go through shit and find something I don't know I don't really know um maybe they can check codis just kidding I haven't done the episode yet guys i don't know what any of it means um maybe no so maybe uh but so we don't know that either

whether he we don't know whether he did it we don't know whether he had a motive or whether he had co-conspirators um and to close out here uh i want to read a statement that one of cookies's children released last wednesday for nearly 55 years our family lived without answers about what happened to my mother we now know that she was little miss lake panasovsky but she was more she was a mother a daughter a sister and a woman who deserved a full life. We are deeply grateful to the Sumter County detectives and the local community who never gave up on her. Now that she has been identified,

our family can begin to heal. We ask anyone who has any information on who killed our mother to please come forward. So if you do, anybody out there, have any information relevant to Marine Cookie Rowan's life or death in 1971 in the Sumter County, Florida area. Please contact the Sumter County Sheriff's Office tip line at 352-569-19.

or via email to Sumter Tips at Sumter County Sheriff.org. And that is the wildly recently updated longstanding cold case of Little Miss Lake I know, that felt like more of an update than a story, like, just because there's like nothing, there's nothing to go off of good. Yeah, it was so just like 55 years in the making and now it's like getting a whole new breath of life like, I know. I feel like this was your, uh, your moment to be like the first on the ground. to say something before it uh yeah that's me i'm barbara walters all right you know here i am well we'll

get maybe another update if uh i'm nancy grace look out maybe as more comes out we'll get another update on that because i i would love to know what happens yes i'm definitely keeping tabs on it um and yeah if you have any any insight folks and like know more about it because there really wasn't too much online but i just thought like like you said it is so suddenly relevant that i was like well we should talk about it now you know yeah it's it's it's very rare that you do a topical story it is and it was weird because i was looking up a bunch of different ideas and then um that one intrigued me so i started like looking more and then i realized like oh if i google it like there's like news from within the last 24 hours you know i was like that's weird um so yeah very shocking oh my gosh well

nice little uh i don't know i don't know what to call that it was it feels like like it feels like a the beginning of what will be a continuation i feel like yeah that's a good point it's an introduction to um the little miss lake panesofsky story um and uh hopefully we'll lead to some more answers and more closure and more cold cases getting solved and i really do want to hear more about um i would love to do something like that other ways that like all the all the machines that they have that teach you how to do, like, I watch bones, you know, remember when they had all these random fake machines. They were like, step into this.

It tells you, like, what your brain is thinking right now. And I'm like, do people really believe this exists? Well, so one of my best friends is a forensic pathologist, and so I'm sure she's got some intel on that too. Oh, yeah. But I, when I come to just the police stuff, I'm like, what the hell is, the isotope one always gets me because it sounds the most like Newtonian. It does.

The isotope thing. And then people on Reddit were arguing, and I was like, I'm not going to get into this today. But, but yeah, I'm curious about it. And I want to admit right here, I know next to nothing about it. It's just to find environmental conditions and try to trace it back somewhere. But yeah, maybe there's like a deep dive. I love like a deep dive, like YouTube video, like something where you're like three hours and you just learn about like one abandoned theme park or like one type of investigating. And then I'm like, wow, I'm an expert.

So maybe I'll watch that. well thanks christine what are you doing for the rest of the the day week the day what time is it um for you at cf it's both it's afternoon i'm celebrating my baby boy and his 10 years of life taking him out in the town sniffing some stuff eating some grass you should take them to a little doggy toy store see maybe if there's like a birthday bone now that sounds interesting if you've been to those doggie bakeries they've always got some weird stuff oh yes there's one right by the pottersfield downtown Cincinnati there there is one in that area it's funny um the I love that I'm such a sucker for that I'm like he deserves a special little birthday treat with his name on it I just told Hank I was

like you got to stop remind you got to remind me to stop buying your treats because he's uh he he didn't agree with that but you know he's you're wrong that's why and also when is his birthday do I know this do we know this May 22nd May 22nd He's a boy, Gemini. Oh, God. I'm a May Gemini, too. I know, and I'm a May Gemini, yeah. So he's a handful.

Pretty much the biggest devil you can find. Well, Gio's a Scorpio, if you'll recall. They are evenly matched. I was going to say, I think they've finally found their match. All right, well, happy B-Day, Gio. I know, my handsome boy is napping. Yeah, he's going to get lots of treats. And he says hi to Hank, and he says, just wait for May 22nd.

You're going to get so many treats. Oh, well, tell a little baby G. I say, I'll know what it means. I'll know what it means. I will. Thank you, everybody, for listening. If you want to check out our Patreon, we do bonus episodes every week alongside as a supplement to our episodes. And it's like an intermission yappy hour type of thing. So you can check that out on your podcast feed or on our Patreon.

We also do all sorts of fun, like, little bits and stuff on Patreon, too. So if you want to check that out, go to patreon.com slash ATW. podcast, and you can follow our socials and check us out anywhere and everywhere. And that's why we drink.