And That's Why We Drink - E461 Houdini Hat Men and Intertwined Ghost Toes

Episode Date: December 7, 2025

We’re back for another episode of our favorite podcast - ours! Episode 461 is here and today we’ve got a double feature of Arizona stories. First Em covers the spooky hauntings of the Copper Queen Hotel in Bisbee before Christine takes us 4 hours away for the mysterious unsolved disappearance of Daniel Robinson. And is Christine the paranormal genius of our dreams? …and that’s why we drink! If you have any information on Daniel’s Disappearance you can contact the Buckeye Police Department at: 623-349-6411 Photo Links: Zak's Rebel Spirit Outfit https://images.plex.tv/photo?size=large-1920&scale=1&url=https%3A%2F%2Fimage.tmdb.org%2Ft%2Fp%2Foriginal%2FivWobhRkfILMHmsq7300a0hual7.jpg Ghost Adventures S7 E3 (The Copper Queen Hotel & The Oliver House) - 31:35 min for the clip HULU or Discovery+ https://www.hulu.com/watch/9c78c5a0-c339-4df1-8dd1-17dd7251cb02 https://www.discoveryplus.com/gg/en/shows/ghost-adventures/s7/74a0b187-22a7-47ee-8132-bf9fd15f86cc/e3-copper-queen-hotel-the-oliver-house/62598120-fc8c-4761-b302-75dd2e757d17 Daniel Robinson Case Page https://www.buckeyeaz.gov/community/daniel-robinson-2070 Catch our bonus Yappy Hour intermissions on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3L28lDw or subscribe on Patreon: http://patreon.com/ATWWDPodcast! ___________________ Stop putting off those doctors appointments and go to http://Zocdoc.com/DRINK to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today. Open an account in 2 minutes at http://Chime.com/DRINK Take advantage of this exclusive offer: For a limited time get 40% off your first box PLUS get a free item in every box for life. Go to http://Hungryroot.com/drink and use code drink. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I love all my children equally. Yeah. Yeah, right. Okay. Hmm. Well, happy post-Turkey Day. So sorry, everyone. We had ran to some difficulties last week. Could not do it. That was my bad. You can still hear my sinus infection. It's not cute. No, it was a little, it was both of us. I also was flying away to Seattle and things just got hairy. But it actually probably saved everyone because we could not get the turkey song the first time. I know they didn't want to hear it a second time. Don't say we, first of all.

Me. I could not get it the first time. want me into your failure, your moral failures. Yeah, that was a bad one. I really felt confident, so confident I didn't, yeah. And I was like, fair. How did I fucking forget syllable versus word, too? Honestly, every other year I've forgotten at least a word or two.

So it always shocks me when, I mean, it shocked me because you've never forgotten a word. Yeah, but I started on the first syllable. All of a sudden I was wrong. Yeah, immediately incorrect, yeah. Well, how was your turkey day, Christine? I have not seen you since we did that song. yeah since we did that faded terrible song um it was okay it was good it was good we just were so sick and it was just cold and is everyone sick what no it's just leona and i were sick and nobody else

oh lucky plays i know isn't it fun for him but it's nice because when i'm visiting my in-laws i'm like here take your child take both your child take your child and your grandchild off with you and they let me just like sit there in a blanket and like a Victorian painting just kind of slowly dying just lounge in my day bed um nice yeah so it's kind of nice I felt and then I would just like you know go downstairs everyone goes to bed early in that family so I just go downstairs and eat food out of the fridge all night I can't stand it's nice yeah I yeah I love finally getting a second to breathe when I'm in another person's house so like in that way I love that they go to bed early, but that means. I do become like a gremlin. Like I just like traips through the dark

by myself with my little flashlight. Yeah. And I'm, and I'm, and my fear then is that, well, that means they also wake up early. So like, I'm really screwed because. Oh, they do wake up early. That is true. But I don't. And I go to bed before they wake up. So it really is a nice little, you know, they're like, where did all the food go? And I'm like, I have no idea. There's like literal teeth marks in the cheese. I mean, really, like you can't buy an ice cream cake for Thanksgiving and then expect it to still be there tomorrow. When it comes to ice cream cake you have never said true words um but yeah i even with allison's parents her dad wakes up at 4 a m for fun and that's usually when i go to bed fun that's sick and they uh i'm very lucky that i'm in a family where they

after they saw wicked they just saw the new one they immediately wanted to arrange a debrief phone call with me oh wow they really appreciate your opinion i guess well i forced them into the first one so i think they wanted to see this out. I think they just wanted to see it through. If you're going to commit, we're going to commit. But they wanted to have, the phone call instead of being at 8 a.m. on the West Coast, which was 11 o'clock for them, which meant they'd already been up for seven hours. It's in their time. And I woke up early just to have this debrief. Oh, yeah, so we're just living completely different lives. So I understand the plight of the in-laws that wake up early. Yeah, it's actually great because then I'm like, oh, there's just coffee and food for me at any

point you know well did you have um a nice dinner i don't even know what you're like you like you like to get what's your thanksgiving plate oh man stuffing bread and butter i did a little turkey this year sometimes i don't um just kind of all the classics some cranberry on there straight mashed potatoes okay you don't have any like standouts like when we were like they better make this plate oh they make a really good stuff and you're not into this but like a mushroom they made like this like mushrooms oh my god so good i just one speaking of one syllable as soon as you said mush i went no immediate no um but i don't know i just love i just love um all foods i'm really not picky

i'm really not picky i just love when there's like a ton of food and they're like actually i love leftovers that's always my thing so like i love to take the turkey and make a mayonnaise and turkey and tomato sandwich after well i I get it. That one, we can, we can agree on that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What about you, though? Because I feel like we've discussed this, but now I don't remember. We haven't discussed it. We're still learning about each other. Everyone's like, we've heard this conversation every year for the past. They're like reciting our orders. We know exactly what you like.

I can't stand a green bean casserole. Get that the fuck away from me. I don't understand why you would want that. Horrid. Yeah. Thank you. I dated a guy who, that was his favorite Thanksgiving meal. Like, he was like, I could eat just that. like you're sick something's off for sure um really red flag my aunt makes uh an incredible mashed potato i think most of it's butter and it's like mashed potato is like how you do it i think potato is like the second ingredient correct ratio um uh six pounds of butter two pounds potatoes they they get these rolls that i haven't had anywhere else i and so a lot of times i'll just in the middle of the night like a gremlin this is what i did they went to bed and then i pulled out the leftover mashed potatoes from

the fridge and I took the leftover rolls and literally like it was like in jera or something I was using the rolls and just picking up mashed potatoes fresh out of the dish and just and they're like soft oh my god I mean I'm telling you that is the dream yeah and I you know I love mac and cheese but I'm really picky about mac and cheese and so I'm hesitant to try other people's mac and cheese but I would say if it was getting nailed every single time that would be my favorite Thanksgiving dish that's a top one too but it's risky some people like breadcrumbs some people like breadcrumbs some people put in different fancy cheese I don't want all that so oh man you know I want everything with all the fancy cheese all the like moldy cheeses and you're sick bread comes I know I have such audacity to say like

you're disgusting if you eat green meat and I'm like put mold all over my mac and cheese no I I but I honestly as much as I like the Thanksgiving food my my aunt and uncle they really my aunt is an incredible cook and so it was kind of actually every meal other than Thanksgiving that I was most excited for because I never knew what was going to happen and it was always going to be great. Oh, that's kind of fun, but you just know it's good.

Yeah. That's a dream. They never fail. Every meal there is pretty incredible. So that's why I go back every year. I mean, it is quite a track and you do commit. So that's, yeah,

that makes sense. I do, but anyway, I had fun. I'm glad you had fun. Yeah, I did. I'm glad to be home, though,

because I've, like, not been home much this year. So I'm like, I know. No, which is great. But Blaze is going to a jujitsu tournament.

in Las Vegas. You going? No, I'm staying home because I'm, I don't, I mean, I would go if like, it were a longer trip or saying, but with Leona and stuff, I'm staying home. But I'm like, you go, go to Vegas, have a time of your life, I'm never leaving my house again. I mean, you've only been off tour for like a month. Isn't that crazy?

I know. And then I was in Egypt for half a month. I mean, it's all my fault. I'm not blaming anyone, but I am saying just, I've decided. I've done I've you're burned out yeah too far yeah I got I got you I got you I don't blame you if I were I mean I've been very nicely sitting over here not on tour and I've kind of loved it so we missed my puppy a lot and my kitties I was like man well as much as I like to I should be surprised as much as I like tour I have loved not having that experience for a second just to breathe so I'm very excited that you know get to have that experience and breathe it is really nice and like especially at wintertime like why would I ever leave the house ever yeah I mean sanity you also have like the aesthetic though of like oh it's so snowy and cozy it is I do have that there's ice on the sidewalk do I look like I'm gonna go walk on it no no but here it looks like June so you know yeah yeah

that's pros and cons of that I suppose well I'm happy for you and your puppy would I'm sure everyone would like an update on your puppy and kitties um well we just heard him thumping down the stairs um he's 10 years old he still um steals all our socks and collects them in a pile around the house usually on blaze's pillow precious and yeah he's just lived in the dream you know snacking all day snacking all night do you drink for any particular reason this week yeah well i drink my mini deep pep um you know i cracked into it before we started i couldn't help myself um i drink because leona has taken up ice skating. Oh.

Hmm. I don't think she got herself to a rink alone. How, who encouraged this? Who do you think? Me? No. Who else do you think has the parental rights to do such a thing? Yeah, it's blaze.

And he was like, oh, I finally have an owner up for ice skating. I'm like, I will not be participating in that. And then, of course, because I was gone the first week, she wanted me to come. So I came to the second week. And they had like an open skate at the end. And I was like, sure, I'll come on the ice with you. I literally don't know what. planet i was living on where i thought i could do this but i got on the ice and was like oh my god

and i held onto the wall and i was like i don't even know how to stand up you don't know how to ice skate no i'm like why how do i not know that like i've gone ice skating before but i stood there like a like a deer that just was birthed out of its have you let's not get further into that metaphor but i was like standing on the wall like like doing the like cartoon arms i mean it was ridiculous have you not done it in a while because i feel like we've hit that age where like our balance is starting get fucked up. I think it's my balance must be so bad. I couldn't even stand up. And then, of course, we went to Connecticut and my in-laws were like, let's go roller skating. And I was like, what's happening in this world? A lot of lack of stability under my feet, which I don't love.

Totally. Why am I putting wheels on my feet? You know, you can do what I did. Well, except my, I was telling the truth, is that I went skiing with Allison's family. And by the way, when I was a kid, I was an incredible skier. I loved skiing. I thought, it was so much fun hadn't done it in a while and then i was like ready to like not really show off but i was like kind of be like dust off the old yeah get back get back out there and i was excited to at least be like her family is like athletic and all this and so i was i was excited to finally show off that like i can do something other than set on a couch second i put the boots on my feet started screaming and it's because as i got older i'm like i'm like i'm totally

flat-footed now and so there was no support and i felt like my bones are breaking under me so I actually ended up just being like sitting at the, what was it, the lodge or the hotel. Oh, you know, I love a little chalet, a ski chalet. Oh, but I was so upset. But anyway, if you ever need to pull the old, oh, I have flat feet, I can't put my feet in there anymore, you know. It's just that I have really beautiful arches, so I feel like it would be kind of like remiss of me to not mention that whenever asked or prompted.

Sure. I mean, at the ice rink in the little locker room area, you are expected to show off the goods. And we know on Wiki feet, you are at least a. four so I'm like a very low average at best yeah um that's because I never get pedicures but anyway uh I tell you what that was not for me I went roller skating about a few days later and that was also not for me meanwhile everybody in blazes family is just like we zipping around and I'm like I don't understand this well it's blazes family they're all freakishly good at everything since I was in fourth grade and I'm like really well doesn't look like it

Skates are when it's all four, like as a square, and blades are the line. Yeah. And I used to roller blade as a kid, like outside and stuff. And now I'm like, what? How? I've never once successfully roller skated. I can only roller blade. And that was when my feet worked.

It was back when your feet had beautiful arches like mine. Yeah. No, I, rollerblading's fun. You can do it? It still hurt? I don't know. I haven't done rollerblading since I was like 10. I'm sure that would also be a big fat miss for me.

but we'll see we'll see i'm sorry for your balance mishy rest in peace it's really bad i was like do i need to like do something about this i'm actually worried about my health actually yeah i um if you want to go on this journey with me i just got a balance board like a i was just googling them because of this exact situation i do you like it i just i literally haven't opened it yet oh my god i'm so curious because i was like well they make them for kids now because it's like a really important part of like developing your body and i'm like i never learn that. I don't think I ever bounce on anything my whole life. I think I just never, it was, you know, young privilege where it's like, well, I was unaware that anyone has to practice this.

I'm just good at it. But now I've, I used to like stand up and put my, like, pick up one leg and lean it on the other leg while I put a sock on. Like I wouldn't have to lean on anything. Yeah, yeah, just like stick my foot up and put the sock on. And I've noticed myself wiggling when that happens now. And I was like, what the hell? So, see, yeah. It goes quickly. You blink kids. You blink. And you blink. And And then it happens. As I take a drag of my long cigarette. One blink and it'll miss it. Well, if you would like to try balance boarding with me, I'm in on that round now.

Speaking of cool merchandise, before I ask you why you drink, we're supposed to mention our awesome holiday merchandise, which is not feature a balance board. But you could maybe fashion one out of some of these items. I don't think so, though, because I'm looking at them. They're mostly shirts and stuff. You could make a hammock, I guess. Yes. Anyway, we have some really fun merch. We have a holiday sale. The entire store, excluding new items. Sneaky, sneaky. That's 30% off now through December 12, 12, 12. And we got our Christmas sweater, which I love, our crampus ornament and the crampus stockings on sale and a pin. It's fun stuff. So go to ATWWDmerch.com to check that out. Thank you for remembering. We both know it was going to be you. in full screen in front of me so that I wouldn't forget.

And I almost did. But why do you drink? I don't think I drink for anything really particular. I'm glad to be back in my house for a little bit. I got to see Hank yesterday, which was the first time in over a week. That was nice. I'm not loving today. I ordered two of my FLTs.

Okay, which ones? I just did a little iced black tea with some lavender in it but I ordered two and one arrived so I know I like to have one to chug and one to sip you know because by the time

I know that about you yeah there was that TikTok that I think you reshared that I saw on my for you page I'm pretty sure you reshare it because it really had very energy but it was like when I have one drink for

caffeine one to calm and then one for hydration and I've reached like the perfect flow or whatever the flow state yeah and I was like that's it the number of beverages you have to have the like perfect ratio of like hydrating to dehydrating to caffeinating really a beautiful balance there thank you thank you for thinking of me and knowing I'm involved in that somehow but you're welcome your face appeared on it and I went oh yep that feels right no apparently that's an ADHD thing it's one of those like little hidden symptoms is that you constantly just have like three drinks all at once and they're all... Really? Mm-hmm. Well, it makes me pee all the time, but I guess,

um, I guess beyond that it is helpful. One's a, you're right, hydration, caffeine, and then a fun little treat, basically, like something yummy. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I'm down, I only have one drink, so I'm going to have to be sparingly. Gasp. I'm not excited about that. So, uh, I'll make that why I drink, um, because you don't have enough to drink on, and that's why we drink. It feels like a crime. Oh, well, hey. Yeah. Report on that. So, Oh, I have a reason why I drink, and I got it a while ago. Time has passed, so I forgot that I got this. I recently purchased a Back to the Future.

This is very difficult to purchase, but there was a limited edition sale going on, basically. I purchased one of Marty McFly's skateboards from Back to the Future. Now, this sounds suspiciously like what you called a balance board just a moment. minute those two different items they're two different this is a fully functioning skateboard from a skateboarding company it's the same skateboarding company that made the marty mcfly one is this why you're trying to get a balance board going like to no i will never i'll never ride this it's fully for collectible use understood okay i don't want to wreck the tires but or the wheels i'm so stupid i'm not escape the tires isn't she beautiful whoa whoa isn't she beautiful whoa whoa so wait so

This is, I'm so stupid. This is from, this is a, this is a, it's from Back to the Future. Okay. And this is the skateboard that Marty McFly uses in it, but it, after he used it in the movie, it became so popular amongst like Back to the Future nerds, but it's incredibly expensive to find online. They're like $700 or some shit like that. And so the 40th anniversary just happened for Back to the Future.

And so the company made like, what was it, since it's 2025, they made like 2,025 of the originals and sold them as part of the like anniversary. Cool. Are you going to hang it up? I am absolutely going to hang it up. Cool. It's been lying on a bunch of pillows because I'm scared of anything touching it. But it's, they apparently this is, they are calling it a 99% one-to-one replica. Like it's like, it's nearly as exact as possible.

Even the tires? Even the tires. Actually, the tires are like a big talking point on this one because they've done limited edition sales before where they didn't have the original wheels to work off of. And so they had to like paint this little pattern in here. But they actually found the original wheels and reimbossed these wheels. It's a whole thing. So this is, they said they don't think they could make it any more exact.

Wow. So I'm very excited. That's why I drink. That's awesome. That's a good reason. You got lots of boards going on over there. I do. I do.

And not even using all of them. One's just to look at, which I'm sure, if you're anything like Allison, she's like, why you're going to love that? Why'd you buy a skateboard that neither of us can use? And now it's just in my house. That goes on the wall, not the floor. Yeah. Anyway, it'll be an excellent addition to our storage unit.

I can't wait to hear all about it. Yeah. I'm very excited to just have it. That's why I drink. I'm trying to, if you're wondering what I'm doing, I'm trying to light a candle off screen. And it looks like I'm doing like a spell, but I'm really just trying to light a candle, so it's not lighting.

That is how one would start a spell. It is sort of lighting, doing a spell, yeah. Anyway. Okay. Well, what is, are you manifesting anything while you light it since we might as well make it a spell? You don't want to know. Oh, shit. Okay.

I hope the balance board doesn't let me balance. Oh my God. I hope I'm tips off the balance board because I would be funny. No, I'm just kind of mad at it. It's not lighting, so that's mostly my issue. But that's all right. I have another little balsam candle right here, and it smells Christmas-y. The balsam ones get me every time, Christine.

Really good stuff, really good stuff. I bought it as a gift for someone, and then I smelled it and went, never mind it in my house. That's what I do a lot of times with like a citrus candle, like a grapefruit kind of candle. It's so hard not to just light them up. That's exactly right. Oh, here we go. Fallah boy.

Oh, and we're done. Okay, great. That's it. That's all you get. Sick. Renew it. I know. I know I say sometimes it's shocking how I have to feed my daughter every day. Well, sometimes it's shocking that every year I'm supposed to go back to the doctor. And I'm like, I just did that. I know. I thought I'd be getting a pat on the back and a thumbs up and a sticker. A lollipop.

And there you go. And then I would never have to come back. But, yeah, unfortunately, we have to go back all the time. And people like me where we just have constant rearranging illnesses, I got it. me and this doctor, we're literally on a texting basis at this point. So, um, how'd you meet? You want to know? I got two words for you. Smash together into one word.

Zock Dog. Oh, wow. And it rhymes. That's awesome. It arrives. Zog talk is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment. I can't promise that you'll be on like a texting basis with your doctor.

But I guess that happens for some people. If you're lucky, you just might find the one you've been waiting for. You can filter for doctors who take your insurance are located nearby. and are a good fit for any medical need that you have and are highly rated by verified patients. Zoc Doc in general was a, let's just put it this way, that it was saying highly by Christine. And if it weren't for Christine, I would have never even heard of Zoc Doc. And this was years ago. And when I started using it, I've never turned back.

I never got a cent of commission for that, but I tell you what? You're owed a lot. Thank you. I'm in the red, certainly. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com slash drink to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today. That's Zoc-D-O-C dot com slash drink. Zock-D-O-C dot com slash drink. Help me. I can't. I don't know how to use my bank sometimes. Get out of that old school bank. I'm struggling constantly. Well, not anymore these days now that we have time, but I'll tell you my history with a banking was not very good.

Yeah, well, I don't imagine anyone's is like very good. And if it is, then stop bragging. Okay. No, not you. I mean the people who say they're great at banking naturally. I feel like it's not something any of us learned. 100%. But Chime, don't worry, guys. It's not just another banking app. They unlock smarter banking for everyday people with products like MyPay, giving you access to up to $500 of your paycheck anytime, getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. And some old banks, old banks, am I right? Don't even do this. Yeah, you can forget overdraft fees. thank God if I knew if I knew if I knew that was a future for me I would have oh my gosh hallelujah um also uh they help you build your credit history stress free and you get paid when you say so up to five hundred dollars too they also have the new chime card which is a way to build

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optional services and products may have fees or charges. See chime.com slash fees info. Advertised annual percentage yield with Chime Plus status only. Otherwise, 1.000% APY applies. No mean balance required. Chime card on time payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for details and applicable terms. Christine, I have a story for you from

Arizona Oh Everyone please pardon my seeming confusion because I have had these notes for a while

so I have not I we're going to learn together It's one of those episodes So The guess what? My story is also from Arizona Bisbee I have no idea what you just said

So no Oh, Bisbee Arizona Nope Nope Okay That'd been crazy that would have been a little weird so this is the copper queen hotel oh and uh very excited i have plans to visit this hotel one day it sounds very spooky oaky um and yeah we'll get into it so busby arizona you know it well um and this is very familiar just heard about it a minute ago yeah we can't stop talking about it can't stop so in the 1800s the town of busby had a mine called the Copper Queen Mine.

Great. And it made Bizby a super successful mining area. And that mine alone produced, I was going to make you guess, but there's no way you would know, mining quantities. I literally know, 6,3 million pounds of copper. We're not even miners. And this is. You don't even how to say it. So, yeah, no, we're not.

No, because I was thinking like miners like children. I was like, how do I differentiate? Oh, okay, fair enough. Fair enough, fair enough. We're not even miners. However, these numbers still look successful, I would argue. Okay, you're impressed. Speaking for you.

So that mine alone, the Copper Queen mine in its time in the 1800s, was able to produce around 8 billion pounds of copper. I was close by not even a little bit. By not even like an iota, yeah. Three million ounces of gold. Jeez. And 77 million ounces of silver. that's crazy yeah that's a that's a lot of metal um and it it being that successful meant that

many mining executives would want to stop in and check on the production while higher ups were in okay okay that's like how's my favorite branch doing yes my favorite mine doing okay words out of my notes yes christian um so since these higher ups would show up and want to see the place they needed a fancy hotel it seems again i'm so sorry that after do that they always do it's like oh well where there are executives there are hotels there's got to be a business center 100% with a printer and then if it's in the 1800s it's also going to be the brothel or something i don't know that's right we might as well mash them together yeah just make it make it the town everything the school the chapel the bar the bar so a fancy hotel

was built for the higher ups and future higher ups are like potential investors coming into the area and the hotel was funded by a company you do not need to know this name so don't feel like you have to remember this. But fun fact, the hotel was funded by the Phelps Dodge Mining Company. The only reason I mentioned them is because they were also in charge of the mine. So it was almost like they saw the profit coming out of the mine and they were like, we'll use that money to build a hotel to make this a continuous thing. Okay.

Okay. Okay. I see. I also once covered a hotel called the Jerome Grand Hotel, which is also in Arizona. And they also operated that building for a while, too. Okay. Fun fact. So they're all over the places company.

it made the most sense for that mining company who was in charge of both things it made the most sense for them to be in charge of both things if they wanted the businessmen to come back to their hotel while looking at their mines and it was just going to be a big money bag for them so that's how we got where we are and why this hotel stands now in 1902 the hotel was completed and this was actually fun fact 10 years before Arizona was even a state so it's older that's so weird to think It's older than Arizona, and it's over 100 years old. Yeah. It's also the longest operating hotel in Arizona, and nowadays it's on the National Register of Historic Places. And when they first built it, they had to finagle how to keep the hotel temperature controlled because it was Arizona. So another fun fact, the walls are two feet thick for insulation, which feels scary. That just sounds creepy. Thank you for saying that, because I thought so, too.

and I was like, am I making something up with this? My brain immediately thinks of fucking H.H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. I'm like, soundproof walls. I don't like this already. My first thought was, oh, not easy to escape. Yeah, like a prison sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Shawshank Redemption kind of stuff. Yeah, exactly like that. 100%. So, originally, this hotel had 78 rooms with a bathroom on each hallway, which meant it was a one shared bathroom per however many were on.

How many executives were on the floor. yeah yeah um but then eventually after renovations let's say there were three rooms let's say on a hallway there's there's three rooms and then another three rooms and then another three rooms in those three rooms they would take the middle one and turn it into two bathrooms like a oh oh so it wasn't even a shared bathroom yet still it was they would just split basically that room in half and give everyone a bathroom so that's pretty nice that's how we came out with all the bathrooms so if you are in that hotel and you are sitting in the bathroom know it used to be a hotel room. Yeah. That's, oh, that's pretty cool. Um, yeah. Yeah. So the hotel,

uh, brought in very powerful people right away. A lot of celebrities stayed here. Some of the people include Marlon Brando, John Wayne, Julia Roberts, who I just can't get enough of. Love, love, love. Kiefer Sutherland, don't you have a thing about him? No, but it feels like I would, doesn't it? It does. He's giving kind of like, oh, my God, shoot law energy. I probably would get them confused and have. Maybe that's why I think you have. Maybe that's why I think you have a thing for him because you wouldn't stop saying Keith or Sutherland, but it was Jude Law's face or something. I think that you, yeah, that might be your Jude Law or something, you know. Maybe. Also, Michelle Pfeiffer, who I also love, there was Nancy Reagan, Teddy Roosevelt, and Harry Houdini, my number

one. Oh, wow. He has stayed here. So although there have been many renovations since then, the aesthetic has not changed. So it's still, it's like our perfect marriage because it is a Victorian building Western themed hotel Oh how cool is that Yeah Very um Hoco Hotel Congress

When we stay in Tucson Which is also in Arizona Which is yeah That feels very old town Old cowboy town Yeah Yeah Wild West

Arizona they love a theme They love a cowboy They love a cowboy Just move there Just move there I'm right Speaking of cowboys Hold on to that thought

And how much you love them because I got something to say later. Wee. All the way down to the metal keys, just like Hotel Congress, actually, which we've also covered. They have, this hotel still has original metal keys for each room.

They have the original safe behind the counter. The restaurant in the hotel still has a menu of the 1902 items that they used to serve here. Oh, cool. So you can eat what they ate in 1902. Now that gets me going. Wait, do they still have the,

what do you mean? They still have the menu? like they have like the actual menu or they literally serve the menu they serve the menu I know I know that's cool I know I know I'm looking for reasons for you to not go here yeah you're not finding any can't find them the menu um is not online because obviously I wanted to list things for you uh or from 1902 but I did decide and I don't remember doing this but I'm so proud of myself um they didn't have 1902 food or the menu but I decided to look up what might have probably been on that menu. I love that, yeah. Popular foods in 1902. Do you want to take a whack at it or you

want me to just tell you? You know, my brother and I were just reading old reviews or old menus on B2 Sandy. Let me guess. Is there some sort of like a partridge or a quail or some sort of bird? Adjacent. I'm going to lump that in with hunting meats, the game. Okay. Because a big popular thing back then was like elk and caribou, like things you could hunt for. for yeah okay okay yeah um what about like some soups some weird soups maybe that's not cowboy enough i'm thinking we read a many of the waldofrestoria i think it's probably a different vibe well let's put this way it is like yes cowboy vibe but this is for higher ups this is for like executives the executives okay okay okay um i'm thinking quail i know i already

kind of said that um i'm thinking probably right um like cream of celery soup i'm thinking um some sort of gelatinous substance with gross things inside it. You're kind of close with gelatinous. So I'm going to lump that. I'm really trying to hand you your flowers here. Thank you. I am not doing a good job at reciprocating. Jelly is involved.

P.B. and J was invented this year. No way. And apparently it was like a thing on restaurant menus because it was like the new thing. Wow. And then the other one I listed on the East Coast at least was, Oysters Rockefeller had just been invented. I see. Okay.

Okay. So you think it made it all the way there yet? I don't know. I don't think they could ship oysters by horse. I mean, I don't know. God bless them if they tried. That would have ended real bad for a lot of people, I think. I will also say at the time only rich people could afford sugar.

So a place like this would have probably boasted that they had desserts. You know what I'm saying? Oh, wow. Bragg. I also looked up popular desserts at the turn of the century. And by the way, just because sugar was hard to find, sweetened, like, tea and coffee was in itself a dessert. Yeah. And then other popular ones at this time were apple pie pudding, brownies, devil's food cake had just been invented.

Ooh. And baked Alaska. Oh, is that? That's ice cream. Yeah, always blows my mind that ice cream existed before, like, the 40s. Yeah, it's hard to imagine. um wow anyway some of the things that might have been on the menu okay throughout the years the hotel has seen a lot and become known as one of the most haunted hotels in the area and some of the rooms are even named after the celebrities and ghosts who reside here fun fact so if you are at this hotel or planning to be at this hotel and you would like to request a room uh room 211 is the john wayne room i guess it's where john wayne stayed when he lived here stayed here that's cool the room 3rd

312 is the Houdini room and that's where he stayed. No, that's cool. I can't decide which one I want to be in. I'll do Houdini. You do John Wayne. I do John Wayne. That makes more sense. Room 406 is where Teddy Roosevelt stayed.

And then the next two rooms aren't going to mean anything to you yet. But 315 is Julia's room and 412 is Billy's room. We're not talking Julia Roberts, I'm guessing. I wish, but no. Because then I'll take Houdini. You take Julie Roberts. I would love a chance at a Julia Roberts room. Yeah.

So, yeah, the two you don't know yet are 315 and 412. Those are Julia and Billy, and you're going to hear about them a second. But now we're just going to get into the ghosts. So an employee here named Jenna, she's also the daughter of the owner. So she's there a lot and has held pretty much every job there. Jenna is like very pro. This place is haunted. Holy shit.

Go Jenna. So Jenna has been interviewed a few times, and this is one of the first quotes I saw from Jenna. There's absolutely stories that are like, oh, we heard a bump in the night, or we got a spooky feeling. And then there's stories that are like, we walked in the room and furniture was flying across the room. Or I woke up in the middle of the night and there was a woman on fire standing in front of me. Oh, sure. So those are two things that she has heard of guest say. Yeah.

Yeah, hard to pin it down, really. And you know what? That one story about a woman on fire standing in front of them while they sleep. did not find that anywhere else, which means there are a lot of stories to uncover. I imagine. If I got Jenna on the horn, let's get Jenna on the horn.

Maybe we'll do that for my bonus content or something. I'll just call facilities. Please just dial zero. Yeah, see if they can give us some information. Get me Bisbee on the horn. So, yeah, so that was one of the first quotes I saw from her where she's like,

we just get all sorts of stories from people. That's wild. Guests hear voices in their rooms. They hear old radios playing that don't exist anymore. People smell weird things, and I'll leave it at that, but it runs the gamut. Doors shake and slam by themselves. If you lock yourself out, you'll come back with a new key, and your door is wide open, so you don't even need the keys at all.

Oh, that's, that would make me a little bit paranoid, I think. And pissed. I'd be like, why then did you do this? Why is there even a key if you're not going to adhere to the rules of a key? now that's a good point and by the way if these are like the old skeleton keys you can't it's not like it's a digital thing and you can blame them on that it's just like someone keeps locking it as you unlock it the things the pins are actually moving yeah that sucks well so uh people will get phone calls with nobody on the other end classic frames will move themselves or get thrown off of the walls on their own electronics will instantly drain there is a ghost of a former employee named rose who apparently sits in a chair in the lobby watching the front door and the current employers or at least the one employer I saw talking about it was like oh yeah there she is and I and apparently it's so quick that they don't even they're not able to totally piece together her or description they just know

she's in a dress she's sitting in the chair and she's looking at the door um that makes me wonder if she almost just leaves more of an impression than like you actually see her I know that's like kind of a stretch of a thought but it's like you know sometimes like I'll be walking to my house and I'm like oh the Victorian ghost woman's there and I'm like but I don't know didn't see her. I just kind of know she's there. I don't know. I don't wish for your life sometimes. Listen, I accepted that long ago. Don't worry. That's horrific. But yes, exactly like that I would imagine. She's pleasant. She's lovely. Okay. There could be worse. Jenna also, I never saw this anywhere else, but I think it was Jenna or it was, I'm pretty sure

it was Jenna. If not, it was another employee that they were interviewing. I didn't see this anywhere else, but apparently there's a whole ghost in the kitchen alley area named Sal. who's like known to be like this grumpy guy who like people just see him standing in the alley like an axe murderer um yeah i'm immediately threatened by sal yeah if your name is sal i the sal alone yeah is a problem for me we start at a deficit when you're named sal i'm like what are you gonna shake you down you got a lot to prove my bud yeah um kids will appear in your photos there was one i know sorry that was loud there was a one photo of i guess a birthday party and there were two little kids in the crowd that nobody knew. I don't like, I mean, that's sad, you know? It is sad because it's like, now they just want to go to a party. They just want to come to the party. I'm glad they got to go, I guess.

That also makes me wonder who has come to my parties that was not invited. Oh. I don't know. I hope a lot of little ghost children came to your parties. Yeah. You had Barney. You had the real Barney at your party. Yeah.

That was a, I don't know if any of. other ghosts showed up because they all secretly knew it wasn't really Barney. They were like, this is so embarrassing. We have to watch. I think they looked at each other and made like a face. We're like, we have to leave before it gets really embarrassing. Cringe. So kids will appear in your photos. Heavy, heavy furniture will move itself within seconds of you not looking, which I'm going to need you to remember that because I have something to say on that later. Do you know what I mean by that? No, I assume you mean like the thing about, I thought you're going to say the thing about like,

oh, does it move or does it just like apparate? But we've talked about that a million times. That's a great guess. No, it's not that, though. You'll understand. Okay, okay. I hope so. Oh, you'll understand.

So one guest lost her room key and later found it literally floating in front of her face. Yes. And apparently, like, so you think she lost it, right? You don't think someone took it, a ghost took it and then hit it and then said, ha ha, I have it. That is the thought. That is the thought. With, I haven't gotten there yet, but with the ghost Billy.

Famous for taking things and bringing them back to you. What's even weirder, one version of that story I saw was that it happened when she was in the elevator. And so now I'm like, well, that really fucks with my head on what gravity is. If you're going down, but it's floating here. Well, maybe he's standing there. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, holding it. And like...

It does feel a little like the room that you decided to free fall. Yeah. And also like, does that mean ghosts can like adhere to the rules of an elevator, but they can walk through walls also? I don't know. It's confusing. I truly, you're saying every single thing I thought because I was like, how does gravity work when you don't have any gravity? I know and you don't have to adhere to it. It's weird.

You would think if a ghost walks into an elevator and then the elevator goes down, they're now just floating in the elevator shafts. That they just like their head would be. Right. But why are they, why, I mean, I guess you do whatever the fuck you want. I don't know. Fine, whatever. Do what you want. I guess I'll never figure it out.

Okay. The hotel is also famous for having, very few hotels have this and it is always my favorite, a ghost log. Oh, I love when they do that. Yeah. That was a big selling point on a lot of articles about this place. We have a ghost log. It's like, okay, calm down. I know.

Yeah. And it's at the front desk for people to see. sign apparently i think i was reading this wrong because i feel like this like some of these pages should have been ripped out and framed if what i'm thinking is true okay it they i saw something about how even like houdini and teddy roosevelt wrote in the ghost long about what they saw but what i think it meant because it was kind of written in a weird way what i think they meant is things have happened in the houdini and the roosevelt rooms oh okay okay people have wrote about it because i was like why are we not like framing teddy roosevelt's fucking ghost story why haven't i heard about that his

handwritten signature and ghost story yeah yeah um anyway if you happen to be there check the ghost log and let me know if i'm right check for a houdini flourish in there see if it's in there uh which by the way that it makes even less sense because houdini was such a skeptic right true point true point um so yeah there's a lot of entries in this ghost log and And basically, when it comes to the ghosts of the Copper Queen Hotel, there are, they've counted up to 16 ghosts. Okay. However, there are three main ones that are like the famous ghosts.

One of them is a guy that only one source called him Howard. Everyone else has just kind of called him the old man. So I don't know why Howard got that name. But he's a shadowy figure of an old man with a long white beard and long white hair. he wears a top hat and a black cape he sounds like the hat man to me is he okay it sounds like he is confused i was like why are you just lingering in the hall he just has like a beard and a top hat and a cape like hello are you maybe he's like a houdini impersonator yeah or um maybe like a higher up from the 1800s i guess would they wear a cape oh and like a monocle or something yeah all of it

I do like a railroad work, an oil baron or some shit, you know? You know why I think that ghosts lingering in a hall is creepy because I feel like everyone thinks it's creepy but there isn't a real reason for it. I think it's because it always feels intentional because as living people,

none of us are lingering in a hall. So it's not like it's a residual ghost. It feels like it's staring you down. Or if it is residual, why is he just lingering in the hall during his lifetime? I'm also concerned about that. Yeah.

If it's like he used to linger here, it's like, that's a bad, that's a problem. If anyone has like a grandpa who just lingers in his own hall, that's horrible. I'm sorry about that. Maybe bring him somewhere else. Maybe he'd lead him by the cape away to a different thing. That means you're dragging him from behind. Okay, I know, but like he probably has a cane he can lean on. It's okay.

This guy, he also smells like cigar smell smoke. Apparently, um, you can smell cigars right before he appears. Um, and he's often seen on the hallway, on the fourth floor specifically. Okay. Jenna, the original owner's daughter who has also worked here, she said that an old owner actually died in room 401, which would have been on the fourth floor. Um, he died in room 401 when he had a heart attack after getting caught cheating on his wife. So in the moment of being caught, had a heart attack from, like, the stress and shock of it all. Oh, no.

So the thought is that... Was he doing it in his cape? Because that's pretty gnarly. Honestly, if he was, that's a cool story. If someone never told me they hooked up with someone and the guy was wearing a cape, I'd be like... And a top hat? Oh, my God. That's somehow ten times better to me.

Maybe someone else thinks that's weird, but I would love that story. I'd be like, go on, please. Tell me more. I would love to collect that story. Oh, my God. There's weirder things you could dress as, certainly. It's true. But yeah, I mean, also I can't imagine, like,

I don't even know how you would feel as either of the women watching him, watching him above a heart attack. All of this sounds bad, bad, bad, bad. Yeah. Anyway, they apparently heard that story and have associated it now with him. However, that was also an interview I heard from. her any other source has not given that story they just said there's an old man and some say that maybe he died here but we don't know so i'm going to go with the original owner's daughter or the

owner's daughter feels like a better source yeah she seems to be really into this stuff so i'm just going to go with what she's saying um some have said that he's a negative presence which i would agree since um yeah that's cheating bastard um and people also find him in reflections and also um not just next to you at the hall, but at the end of the hall. So, like, reflections is bad. Because then I feel like he's trying to hide. I hate that.

But, like, he forgot about his reflection, you know. That's bad, isn't it? I hate that. Good, you're welcome. That would be confirmed, I think, if anyone ever saw him in the mirror, like, trying to hide. Like, oh, shit, I forgot you can see me. Oh, like ducking out of sight, yeah. Oh, Christine, that was a, that gave me a little bumpies.

Now you're freaking me out. oh i hate that hate that i don't like when you get scared when i get scared i also don't like the idea of like reflections includes inside of your own room like oh yeah if it's the hall at least i can leave the hall i can't leave my mirrors yeah no that's bad there was one i can't stop they're really just they won't go away oh no is he there look in the reflection um there is one story someone had where she was in a hallway and looking at a display case and saw a man standing behind her also looking up the display case

and so she stepped out of the way to let him see better and when she turned around, no one was there. Ew! I hate that all the way. That is spooky. Dude, it's like also on my legs. I know, now I'm getting freaked out, man.

You're freaking me out. There is, I think this was an employee, her name's Marissa, who said, oh, this is literally the story, the display case. So it was a guest named Marissa. Yep. And she's like, I'm just going to be polite.

Oh, God. Yeah, this is the quote. While reading the articles in the display case, I could see the reflections of people walking behind me, and I noticed that a gentleman had stopped, and he was looking over my shoulder, reading the same thing I was. He looked like a very nice person,

so I turned to say hello, and no one was there. Mm-mm. Horrid. No, thanks. A guy in a different room, he woke up for no reason in the middle of the night, and noticed, quote, a thin veil of smoke entering the room

through the door. My first thought would be there's a fucking fire. Yeah. Not him. Okay. My eyes were irritated, but I continued watching the haze fill the room

with unnatural slowness. Okay. Then appeared the outline of a man dressed in a waistcoat, pacing back and forth in the smoke. And just as fast, he was gone. So, like, it makes me wonder, like, is the smoke just there

so you can see him? is that like what he's able to be like reflected in or is it like he's made of the smoke or is that just follow him around everywhere he goes like like from the peanuts like i don't understand that the smoke is yeah i don't you know it's feel it sounds like you're right that it's almost like without the smoke you wouldn't be able to see his cut out yeah yeah right like it feels like oh until there was enough of the fog machine going like the lights you know how like strobe lights kind of get i wasified by a fog literally going to say like laser like when the smoke moves through it. Yeah, the lasers, yeah. Yeah, so it's, which that, if that's true, Christine, that freaks me out even more because it means he's already in your room doing other stuff. You just can't see without the smoke. He's like, oh, he can't see me yet.

Let me just get a little fire going. And was the smoke, was that just like a secondary thing happening that let you see him? Oh, it was that intentional? Or was it intentional? Was the hotel actually on fire? Or like, oh, go check. And also, if it was him, why did he pick? you and why was it intentional for you to see him and why did he need the smoke for you couldn't he

have done something else without smoke to i guess not but i guess he's known to smoke cigars so maybe the smoke oh maybe he was smoking a cigar maybe i think i think he figured it out i think he was smoking a cigar and that was part of the residual energy okay okay you're so smart i'm i'm like yeah that totally makes sense what i said uh-huh look zach begans has theorized worse all right okay fair enough with less to go on yeah could this be no it couldn't but thanks for turning well the second ghost is julia who is one of the rooms i talked about earlier i think she's 315 and she was they've always got one it wasn't a bride this time but similar it was still a jilted woman um she was a sex worker who fell in love with one of her clients at the hotel and i don't know if it's because he was married or something

but when she told him her feelings he wear a top hat and a cape because honestly now that would make some sense just saying if they're both from the same fucking story see you're i'm gonna say it again i'm gonna say it again you're literally so smart oh my god thank you so much oh m g okay so all we know without christine's theories that are totally blowing us out of the water here yeah i'm sure her name was julia lowell lull okay um sex worker who fell in love with one of her clients she told him he rejected her i don't know why i don't know the reason um and she hanged herself in the hotel apparently because of that shit oh no so now men staying here specifically on the second and third floors which would go against your theory because

he died on the fourth floor with the other woman i don't know maybe it's just too hard for her to go to that space yeah maybe it just brings you back back too many memories well now men will feel someone climbing into bed with them she also this i fucking hate christian she pulls the covers off of you and tickles your feet no i mean that's not okay in any universe any generation any decade it's not cool i've never heard lack of consent louder than yeah wow that's bad that's really bad cut it out i like though that maybe that's her way as a ghost where she is like all right i'm going to climb to bed pull down the covers it's going to get crazy yeah yeah too crazy you've crossed a lot immediately. Yeah, it's weirdly worse now. I wish you just did something else that this is

worse. She has also seen just standing at the foot of your bed and sometimes dancing seductively for you. Well, she also thought tickling your feet was seductive. So I don't know what seductive means in this scenario. I think they're in reverse order. I think she seductively dances to trick you into feeling like something sexy is about to happen and then she gets you. Well, that's a nightmare also. Thank you. It's like part of a routine of like, oh, what's going to happen? Oh, it's worse than you think. Go ahead, get your hopes up.

It's going to be bad. It's going to be bad. Give me your money. You'll see afterwards what I'm talking about. She has also seen dancing by the stairs to lure you up, I suppose. And she's also seen walking through doors into the hall. There literally someone said that they have watched her in their room just leave through the solid door oh dear um one time a woman ran into her and this is this was on a bunch of sources

but nobody gave any explanation for it so this is up to up to the reader's imagination i guess but one time a woman ran into her and the ghost julia was sentient enough to know that she bumped into her and looked really panicked and she said oh oh have you seen anything but i don't know what that means. Oh, maybe it means like, oh, did you see anything? Like, maybe she was doing something illicit. Like, oh, did you see what I was up to? Like, did you see anything? Or, like, you know, when people say, like, you didn't see anything, you know? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, and if you did see anything, I'm going to get your toes later. Yeah, you better watch out. Maybe it's what you meant. Have you seen anything? Have you seen what I've done with the men's toes?

Yeah, right? Like, that's what I fit their toes. Oh, no. No, I saw nothing. I swear. all of a sudden i'm triple socked i'm like crying and wearing like eight yeah eight pairs of socks oh my god yeah nobody has given an explanation onto what that means but that is the only instance that someone has had an intelligent experience with her where she's speaking to them so um people in bed also hear her whispering in their ears and this little piggy went to market yeah i was going to say what could she possibly oh no woman actually heard her voice in the elevator oh sorry one guy heard a woman's voice in the elevator when he was alone and they've equated that to julia but he remembers hearing someone laugh as if you

like made a joke while he was in the elevator and was by himself that's embarrassing and he's like i didn't make a joke in it yeah it's like what are you laughing at um so her room is 315 and the third ghost that i'm going to talk about billy reminder his room is forked bell so billy is allegedly a kid of one of the former staff members they say that they say that he drowned in a nearby river and was brought back here to his parent. Oh, geez. Billy was around nine years old. And just like any other kid, he likes to play pranks.

And he's now heard giggling and running all over the hotel. I feel like there's always some mischievous little kid in a hotel, a mischievous kid ghost. And kids even see him. Remember at the Crescent? What was that kid's name? If I say it, it will bring him back, I'm sure. It will bring him here. Let's say it again three times in a row.

What was his name? What was his name? He was like the owners, when the Crescent was a school, it was the president of the school's son. And like all the, no. Maybe. No, maybe I remember like all the girls in the dorms like all would play with him. Crescent Hotel Ghost Boy. I keep thinking Michael, but that was New Orleans.

Stop trying to bring him back. I can't help it. Brecky. Brecky. Oh, but. Christine, it literally says, The Crescent Hotel Ghost Boy likely refers to a ghost

of a young boy named Brecky or sometimes Michael. What? How did you summon that? Are you serious right now? How did you do that to me? No clue. Sorry about that.

That was really not my intent. Evil of you. Take it back. I love that name. I won't. I think it's because, wasn't like his mom's maiden name like Breckenridge or some shit like that?

Something like that. I feel like it was like his middle name or something. Yeah. Look at us. Piecing it together. um well not brecky or michael i don't know how you came up that's so weird that you just did that um i mean yeah sure yeah it has to be i'm the genius or whatever you said earlier so billy is the just like classic quintessential like mischievous kid uh ghost boy whatever

at every hotel i think i said that already but um he is around nine and he likes to play pranks he's most known for being heard running through the halls sorry i don't know if you can hear hank drinking um running through the halls knocking on doors giggling the giggling i cannot tolerate that's just not going to happen for me knocking on doors because that feels way too personal like don't know it also feels sentient again like i just yes yes it feels like invasive yeah and i get that it's if it is really just a little kid like obviously he wouldn't know but as a ghost I'm like all of a sudden I expect you to totally understand boundaries get the fuck away from me yeah I know right like a normal nine year old would do this exact same thing and a live nine year old yeah so there's a toy car in the hotel that I guess hotel staff originally brought because of the little kids that would be staying here as guests but they noticed that the car started moving by itself all the time like it's like it's like a car like one of those like little tykes cars oh okay oh but it's not like it's not like a Barbie car.

No, it's like a car to ride. Okay, okay. Like a push, like a push. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yes. Apparently it rides itself around. It moves by itself and it's set.

Or does it? Or does there a girl's child on it, actually. One kid lost her stuffed animal. And apparently it was found in a random place. One of his favorite things to do is take your items and make them reappear, a la key in the elevator. floating in front of somebody's face so he's not even trying to hide it

so a kid's stuffed animal has been misplaced and found in a weird spot coins that are in the dresser are now, have been found elsewhere many people lose their shoes apparently that's a big one for him he likes to take your shoes lose your shoes that sounds like a geo situation I that's socks

they're a team that's socks you're right sometimes people's wallets which I can you imagine losing your wallet and a ghost took it that'd be terrible I mean yeah I think about it all the time because every time I lose my wallet I'm like maybe a ghost took it and blaze is like is like is your wallet that I found it in the driveway and I'm like oh there it is a ghost took it and he's like uh-huh sometimes people's wallets and clothes will turn up in other areas of the hotel jewelry on the

nightstand is a favorite of his to play with and it'll always look rearranged when you go back to it oh horrifying um and he's especially playful in rooms where children are he will change tv channels he will yank on your shirts he will open and close doors he'll knock things off the tables actually when it comes to yanking their shirts one of the bartenders literally said that her shirt got yanked so hard that it like pissed her off like she just went from like in a good mood to a bad mood because her shirt just got yanked and she was like what and look down because she assumed it had to be a kid but she like i've never imagined i don't know if i could just switch into that mood but getting yanked that hard it's like it's at least incredibly noticeable when i get scared i get really aggressive like i like punch like i want to like punch like i want to like you know so i feel like if somebody like scared the absolute shit out of me i probably would get really aggrove that's um probably what happened here because i've i've had things happen where all a sudden like i just like switch into like a state where i'm like so upset it's like a frenzied state

yeah like when your belt loop gets stuck on a doorknob oh it's i mean really yeah sets me a blaze wow wow wow wow look out well so jenna the the one that i've been getting a lot of these quotes from she was asked about billy and she said when i stayed in billy's room i woke up in the middle of the night three nights in a row i heard a kid running back and forth back and forth at the foot of the bed at the in the room no and i left candy on one of the sides of the bed and then in the morning the candy looked like it had been dragged under the bed no oh no so for all the people who are like monsters under your bed or hide your feet this is not the hotel for you because you know people like i can't have my feet sticking out over the bed because someone will grab me well and

think about this someone's and think about what's her name on her toes Julia on her toes think about the shoes going missing these people are obsessed with feet these ghosts yeah that is interesting I wonder what maybe in my mind because they're all like coal miners and cowboys maybe they're like

why are all these feet so clean what's what's going on in here let me take a look not even a speck a lint between these shows um it's also said that Billy is scared of water and if you turn the shower or bath faucet on you'll hear him cry I would take a shower and just be apologizing the whole time. I'd be like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'll be quick, yeah.

So apparently if you want the room to get more active, you'd turn a faucet on. That's cruel. Yeah, it is cruel. Yeah, it's like, how about I scare this little kid? Yeah. I mean, Zach Begans. What? Am I a genius again?

So anyway, there's one guest named Dennis who saw several balloons in the hotel one day sitting on a table for like an event. And when he passed by them, he remembered the balloons. He walks out of the hotel. And then this is a long quote, but it is very interesting. Okay. So he leaves the hotel after seeing these ones. About halfway up the street, I look back at the hotel and I watched as one of the balloons comes bouncing out of the hotel doors. down the exterior steps

out to the middle of the street and then the balloon made an abrupt 90 degree turn and began bouncing uphill in the middle of the street behind me I did not notice any wind blowing whatsoever but I watched the balloon pass by me and continue up the hill and around the right hand curve

and out of my sight so it made two 90 degree turns by itself the fuck about a minute later here comes the balloon back around the curve still in the middle of the road. I shouted, Hey, little ghost, is that your balloon?

And the balloon stopped moving down the street. Made another... And they're like, did you see anything? Or what did that lady say? Have you seen anything? It's like just a bouncing balloon making 90 degrees turns. Just you stealing balloons from the conference room.

I jokingly shouted, Hey, little ghost is that your balloon. The balloon stopped moving down the street, made an abrupt 90 degree left turn, and came about 10 feet and stopped right between my front tire and the car parked in front of me. I set out. loud, hey, little ghost, do you may want to move out of the way because I'm going to spray some

sunscreen on my arms? Okay. How considerate. Okay. After saying that, the balloon rolled sideways, stopping a few inches from the wall, never touching my front tire or the car bumper in front of me, then made another 90-degree turn and actually moved sideways an inch so that it would not bump into me, my bike, or the Thornbush nearby.

Well, Thornebush is a balloon's worst nightmare. You know what? that's just smart senses right there. I finished my sunscreen spraying and turned around and said, well, little ghost, it was nice to meet you, and I'll take your balloon back to the hotel and put it back on the table. How could you? I'm sure I must have met Billy the little boy ghost that day.

Stole his balloons. Yeah, like he literally was having a good day. He was walking around. He was showing off his balloon around town. And then he was polite to you. And he sprayed him in the face with sunscreen. He was an obedient child. You said you might want to step away and then he did.

And he was patient and kind. and not harmful. And then you just said, Give me those. Give me that fucking balloon. Those were your exact words I saw. That's what I heard. That's what I said.

Anyway, very creepy. So, as for shows that have been here, ghost hunters has been here, not Ghost Adventures. And the only thing that they caught was luggage slightly moved by itself. And a blanket might have moved by itself. And they think that that might have been the woman

yinking. Looking for your toes. Looking for your little pig. So nothing happened there. By the way, one of my favorite things about ghost hunters is that when I need to find out evidence of what happened in an episode, they play it all at the end. It's like, oh, I can just watch this essentially as like a quick little clip instead of having to watch the whole episode. Oh, okay. I didn't know that. I don't, I haven't watched that in years. So they always go when somebody like calls and asks for their help. And so at the end, they'll sit the person down and show them all the evidence they got. I do remember that. I love that part. But with, With ghost adventures, yet another way that it irritates me is that I have to watch the entire thing. So catch all the good stuff. He needs those minutes, those download minutes. And I understand.

And so Ghost Adventures, of course, went here. I do have a picture for you, my sweet Christine, because your favorite ZB dressed up as a cowboy for the affair. Come on. This is what I'm saying. Like, don't mess with me. I want you to know that this is your man. This is your man right here. Hang on.

It comes my man. Get ready. So they get to you right now. God, he loves a dress-up day. Well, he saw Arizona was on the docket and he went, well, cowboy time. Sign me up. I will say his cowboy shirt could not be more Ed Hardy. Oh, God.

Oh, God. Oh, God. That's your man. Okay, first of all, please, rebel spirit. Let's be for real. right now literally it's a flowery skull and it says rebel spirit yeesh what does it say on that front underneath it the front oh those are guns cool cool cool and then that's him with the saloon he loves the saloon oh my thumb ring yep never seen anything like the studded belt oh i just the skulls

surrounded in golden pistols do you like what you see you want to give that a little kissy oh god it gives me a headache, honestly. You didn't say no, I noticed. The saloon one is killing me because he looks like such a, look at his thumb ring. You want to hold hands with that thumb ring? Shut up. You're the one who wants to intertwine your toes with the Julia ghost. Honestly, for the story, I might. I'm saying, I know it about you. I know it, like a fact.

You know almost everything. I got to stop looking at this. This is upsetting me. It's upsetting my sensibilities, you know? Look, you hold Zach. hand downstairs i'll take care of the toes upstairs with julia oh no have you seen anything you i'll do a little strip tis for her just pull the sock off ever so slightly yikes i don't want to be i don't want to know anymore keep that private thank you that's all for you um okay so he dressed like a cowboy during the walk through of course um by the way because julia was a sex worker really opened the door uh for his comedy routine don't you don't say yeah his stand up his tight five

that he does yeah he loves and he loves some nazi sex workers he likes to use the p word um of course loves it and just talked about you know what insert insert your best guess here so before the investigation they this is literally a whole new level of out of control for zach begans because they were so close to mexico they decided to go to the mexico u.s. border no of course he did he would he literally illegally walked up to the border to touch the wall he's literally such a fool I can't They hurt

And he's in He's in his stupid fucking cowboy shirt too By the way Rebel spirit Okay He heard gunshots And then

Oh he also asked Border Patrol If he could do a ride-along Hey can I see that big wall Everyone's talking about Can you show me that cool wall He was denied His request of course

You don't say But he was not afraid to ask Luckily they did not show that part They like turned the cameras off for that and he was like just so you know they denied us yeah no shit sherlock jesus i didn't think it could get to that level but um literally bad that's pretty bad literally crossing a line and that line is called the mexico u.s. border a literal line yeah yep uh so one worker says that uh hang on let me read this oh oh right okay remember earlier when i told you

about the heavy furniture moving and i said we'll get back to this later uh-huh uh-huh Okay, so one guy that they interviewed who worked there said that he literally, like, he left the room for less than a minute and all of the heavy, heavy furniture that like would usually take two people to move had switched itself around. Super freaky. Of course, Zach Begans wants to put his strength to the test and now has that guy time 45 seconds or a minute or however long it was and tries to. to move all the furniture himself.

God. That's way worse than I could have imagined. Did he move it all? He moved it, but he was out of breath. So, I don't know, you make, it was not what I wanted to totally see. But if you wanted to hear Zach Began's grunting in a cowboy outfit, Christine.

It's somebody's dream come true. So then they ended up getting a bunch of EVPs. one of them was put the rope down which is horrifying because Julia allegedly hanged herself I also heard just get the fuck out that's what I heard get the fuck out oh that also tracks

and it's also funnier because if I'm right then they never censored the word fuck on a TV show also very good good point then they got another EVP when they turned the bathwater on my prophet little Christine the oracle I knew that would happen I knew it

Of course they turn the shower on They're trying to get Billy And then they get an EVP that says Billy's hurt Oh no Which let's not forget that he's probably scared of water because he fucking died in water Exactly, exactly

Um Buddy Then, okay So I didn't know if you wanted to watch a clip of Always Okay so if you wanted I did that a little less excitedly I'm sure

I guess I have time If you wanted to go to just it was on Discovery Plus, as you know. Oh, hell yeah. Hold on just a moment. Okay, got it. What's the timestamp? It's 31.35, and all you need to know is that they asked Billy to move the shower curtain.

Okay. 3135? Mm-hmm. Okay. Oh! Oh! That was creepy, M. That actually is pretty fucking scary.

I mean, unless Zach is behind the curtain, which I feel... He is not. Okay, he's not. Okay. He was holding the camera. And he even, you could see him like recoil. He was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah, that was upsetting.

And then Nick's like, what, what, what, what? Yeah, because he's standing next to it and his pitch black. He's like, I don't know. Yeah, no, that... This reminds me of the bathroom at the Queen Mary when I was like, don't make me go in there. You're like, go in there, Christine, we're filming. And I'm like, no! Sit on the toilet.

No! Get in the shower. No! for the record i was literally about to say personally this makes me think of the queen mary oh okay because it was my first thought anytime something creepy happens and an old hotel shower now with the shower yeah forget it but that was creepy i thought i was like all right jack you you win this one yeah you win that round unless that is you back there but em says it's not so it was not and they they seemed to also like try to test to see if like water or

a draft or something was actually hitting the curtain and nothing was. Yeah, it looks like somebody bumps it like from, ooh, oh, I don't like it or something. Yeah. Ugh. So also in this episode, they hear truly awful horrifying footsteps where maybe it's faked. I don't know, but it sounds like terrifying footsteps. I think the footsteps are always scarier than you realize. Yeah.

Because when you really hear them in a place that you think is empty or a place where you shouldn't be here, it really is a scary, like, because you know what footsteps sound like, Everyone knows what it is. And it's also, it's a sound that our brains, I think, naturally just, like, turn off usually in the background. But when you're supposed to hear it, it's like a very scary sound. Right, right, right. Not good. With the horrifying footsteps, they got an EVP of someone saying, no one's here.

Nobody's here. You didn't see anything. They didn't see a damn thing. Have you seen anything? Have you seen anything? No. No one's here. Nick also goes over to ask if someone's on the stairs and they get a,

Pretty clear EVP of someone saying he's coming over here. And then the last thing I'm going to say, that's the end for Ghost Adventures, but the last note I have is in 2017, the hotel started a restoration process, and as of last year, it is now on sale for $12.5 million. Wow. So if you would like some ghosts. It's on our budget, M? Let me think about it.

I'll get back to you. I'm not sure. Okay. Anyway, that is the Copper Queen Hotel. Copper Queen Hotel. I want to talk to Jenna. I do too. I do too.

We should make that content where we like just interview the owners of or like staff from each of these places that I cover. That'd be cool. That feels like, and we can dress up like cowboys and say inappropriate things. We should just find the exact rebel spirit shirts he was wearing.

Oh my God, you know how much those costs, right? Probably far too much. That would actually be a great little spinoff if we just interviewed all the people. from each of the hotels that I covered and just be like what have you found just be like tell us spill the spill the dirt spill the dirt I've covered this is what the articles are saying but what are you saying yeah now is your chance yeah anyway that is the copper queen hotel hope you had fun

wow wow here I am looking for rebel spirit custom denim jacket with gold pistols you know what the worst part is the internet says we don't know what you're talking about you know he custom made it so gross i feel like either he customated that morning or he has it in his closet always no he's been wait i think you're right i think he's been waiting waiting for an excuse but i know just the place could this be the day that i wear my rebel spirit shirt could my rebel spirit finally be making its way under the big screen could my rebel spirit finally be healing oh my god oh they have a pride party a cowboy hat cowboy shirt sorry no the hotel oh lovely do weddings they do yeah okay bizby i love this for you when they have flash tattoos at

the party what the heck this is a fun hotel jenn jena Arizona really seems to have it together because they do they know how to do a theme you're right they love a theme every time we've been to Arizona there's been something theme i mean remember hotel congress that was beyond a theme and they're like if you don't like it sucks for you. It literally felt like I had time traveled in that last hotel. That was so creepy with those stairs and oh my god. Filed. Oh my god. Oh my god. Good story. So the wildest thing is like every day my child needs more food. I'm like what again? I just fed you yesterday. The gift that keeps on giving. It's really shocking. I mean I guess it makes some sort of sense but no one warned me about that. But that's why I love Hungaroo. It helps us save by reducing food waste, avoiding

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Okay. Great. Too bad. But too bad. It's still in Arizona. Okay, so I'm going to tell you, where is it? Oh, um, in Arizona. Oh, right.

Okay, you don't have to know the actual town. In the desert. Uh, I do know that. I knew it's in the desert. I was going to look up how far away our stories were and now I didn't get it. Oh, actually, that's a good idea. Bisbee to Desert Arizona. So it's technically Buckeye Arizona is, and that's a police department that's in charge of the case.

So, okay. So it's about four hours away. Oh, shit. That's far. Okay. That's not what I wanted to hear. Yeah. No.

No. All right. So I'm going to tell you about the disappearance of Daniel Robinson. This occurred in 2021. Okay. So a little background, Daniel Cornelius Robinson was born January 14th, 1997, and grew up in South Carolina in a close involved family led by his father, who becomes a major player in this story, David Robinson, Sr., and his mother, Melissa Edmonds. And I'm going to say up front that this is an unsolved case. And the reason I tell you that is because I'm going to give you a quick description. of Daniel because we still don't know what happened to him.

Okay. Daniel is black. He's about 5 foot 8, approximately 165 pounds with black hair, brown eyes, born with a congenital abnormality resulting in the absence of part of his right forearm and hand. And that visible characteristic has been emphasized in missing persons alerts, which is why I mention it. Family and friends consistently describe him as intelligent, soft-spoken, curious, loved the outdoors. he worked as a geologist, so that's how he ended up in Arizona. And according to his father, he was very in tune with nature, Arizona was one of his favorite

places because it had his scientific interests, you know, in mind, and then all the hiking and rattlesnakes you could ever want. Couldn't be me, but, you know, go for it. No, I'm glad others are out there. I'm glad that you're enjoying your, yeah, exactly. Daniel was very close to his family, despite living across the country. his dad said when they got on the phone they would often talk for two hours or more and they talked regularly. So Daniel attended the College of Charleston, South Carolina, studied geology, graduated in 2019.

And after he graduated, he moved to Arizona to work as a field geologist for a company called, which this sounds like a fake company, Matrix New World Engineering. Like it feels like a fake company. Literally like produced by Universal Studios. Yeah, like New World. Yeah, it's just a little creepy sounding. But it's an environmental engineering firm that manages projects such as groundwater assessment, environmental planning, surveying. And he worked as a hydrogeologist. What that means is he would go oversee remote desert well sites.

He would travel to these really isolated locations to monitor groundwater, perform sampling and gather data for engineering and environmental clients. And that required him, his job required him, to drive long distances alone into desert areas, often before sunrise. and then work in this hot, rugged terrain that could be difficult to navigate. So, terrible. Already, we can probably see where this is going. Daniel also worked a side job delivering groceries through Instacart. And through that job, he sometimes met customers, including one woman that he seemingly became infatuated with.

And we'll get to that in a little bit as part of one of the theories. Okay. So the weeks before his disappearance, according to family members, Daniel had been generally pretty happy in Arizona. He liked his job. He liked the area. But in the weeks before he went missing, some people close to him noted that there were slight changes to his behavior. According to friends, he had been acting not like himself.

I don't quite know what that means, and we don't get much detail of that. But despite these kind of mild concerns, his father and siblings have repeatedly said there was no sign that Daniel wanted to harm himself, had any sort of suicidal ideation. and they still feel that his disappearance was completely out of character. Okay. Cut to June 23rd, 2021. This is the day Daniel disappeared. So in the weeks leading up to this date, Daniel had been an occasional contact with a woman he met through Instacart delivery. According to police summaries and later media coverage, they had spent a brief amount of time together.

She invited him in when she and some housemates were drinking. And Daniel developed strong feelings for her that she became. uncomfortable with. This is according to the reporting. At some point, she asked him to no longer come to her home uninvited. Fair enough? Yeah. So roughly 18 hours before Daniel disappeared, and this is one of those things that, like, could be a nothing or could be in everything. 18 hours before he disappeared, he sent this woman a text message that was later quoted in reporting on the case and in this text message he wrote about believing quote the world can get better end quote and added that he would either see her again or never see her again oh shit and like

obviously in the context of somebody disappearing you think like oh my god that means so much but also it's like if she told you like get away and you're like fine maybe i'll never see you again you know like right i don't know i don't know that it necessarily means yeah it could it it's certainly creepy yeah considering the context yeah but it could also just be a guy being jilted yeah yes just like see you never you know

so it's unclear and also like people debate whether like his family says oh that that had nothing none of the woman in this story has anything to do with like his disappearance but of course then some people speculate it does and there's no way to know so that message along with earlier texts in which he told her he loved

loved her and remember she said like please don't come to my house unannounced and I don't have the same feelings for you became part of this kind of timeline especially because that last one was only 18 hours before he disappeared and he and they didn't not know each other correct I mean he went over there to drink one time when delivering Instacart and then like hung out for a bit and apparently developed feelings that were unrequited and also much more intense than probably the timeline should allow for but but not enough to like be saying i love you is probably not no okay it seems like it was an uncomfortable situation on her part sure so on wednesday june 23rd 2021 the day he disappeared daniel reported to a remote well site near the intersection of sun valley parkway and cactus road

the most arizona thing i've ever heard literally yes yeah might as well driven I might as well have driven into a cactus for work. Yeah, I mean, yeah. Cactus road in the desert area of Buckeye, Arizona, which is west of Phoenix and near the Haseyampa River. He arrived at the site at about 9 a.m. And he spoke with an employee from another company later identified as a Weber Waterworks employee named Ken Elliott. So Ken Elliott, this coworker, this Waterworks employee, met Daniel for the first time that, morning. And according to the dateline summary of a statement, Elliot told police that rain

delayed their work briefly and while waiting for the storm to pass, and remember they're in the desert, so rain is not necessarily like a common occurrence. He noticed Daniel staring off toward the desert and making a comment that struck him as unusual, though we don't know, which is frustrating because we don't know the specifics of what that comment was. Oh, okay. And then Ken estimated that Daniel remained at the site roughly 15 minutes before abruptly leaving and driving instead of back to the main road toward Phoenix, driving instead deeper into the desert. Ooh.

Yeah. Okay. So it feels like there's maybe a little like mental health stuff going on. Yeah. Okay. I mean, yes, that is one potential angle. Okay. And it's hotly debated because his family does not believe that that's the case.

Oh, okay. you know they want they yeah um we'll get into that it's tough because they they refused to even kind of acknowledge that possibility but also so you want to give them the the credit of like okay well they know their son and they know whether but you know you think he lived thousands of miles away he's a young man he's going through it you know who knows he's already he's saying I love you after one hang out with somebody and his friends are saying he's acting off and in the middle of a shift. He's just driving into a place

that is the opposite direction of home, like some while saying like disturbing comments. It just feels wrong. Yeah, it just feels bad. And Ken later told investigators that Daniel was, quote, not making sense. Apparently Daniel asked him if he wanted to go to Phoenix together, and he's like, we just met.

Like, I don't know you, you know. And the coworker reported that after these 15 minutes, he climbed into his Jeep, which was a blue gray, 17 Jeep Renegade and drove away without explanation. But like I said, instead of turning left toward the main highway back to Phoenix, the co-worker said Daniel turned right at the T-junction, driving deeper into the desert. Shortly before that, about 8, 10 a.m., Daniel's last known text message had been sent to the

coworker, Ken Elliott, that he was scheduled to meet, but we do not have the content of that message in the public record. Later that day, when Daniel did not check in with his employer or family and could not be reached by the phone, his absence became a concern. turn. And at some point during the day, his workplace, Matrix New World Engineering, notified Daniel's father back in South Carolina that Daniel had not returned from the work site and could not be reached. I know. Just like nightmare, nightmare. According to the advocacy site uncovered, Daniel's father, David Robinson, has said that when he first called Buckeye police to report his son

missing, he was told that he'd probably come back, you know, missing people usually return, and there's a waiting period before a report could be filed. The department has not confirmed this. All we have is an official timeline that lists 7 p.m. that day as the time he was officially reported missing and was entered into the National Missing Persons database. So there's a lot of, he said, he said situation going on with the police force and then Daniel's father saying like they botched the investigation. They didn't handle things. They're overlooking discrepancies. And then the police saying, you know, we did everything by the book and we think this was not.

foul play. So there's this kind of play of accusations. Daniel's family thinks Ken Elliott knows more than he's letting on or perhaps maybe even had something to do with it or is lying about the situation. So it's really, it's a hard thing to kind of navigate. David Robinson immediately began arranging travel from South Carolina to Arizona. He drove cross country to join the search and then stayed to do independent searches for his son. So now we're talking June into July of 2021. No sign of Daniel. June 24th, Buckeye Police continued ground searches near the job site.

They activate the account, the You Connect account, which I guess is how they were able to locate Daniel's Jeep. And they also requested a cell phone ping to see where his phone had been last picked up and tempi police performed a welfare check also at daniel's apartment on june 25th a phoenix firebird helicopter conducted an aerial search of the desert area and buckeye police continued ground searches but still no sign of anything jesus and also like when i'm thinking of fair deserts okay whatever um whenever i'm thinking of deserts i think of just like nothing but flat ground sand and nothing else.

So in my mind, from an aerial view, there should be the easiest search efforts. Like, is there a dodge on the sand? If you think about it, there, he was out there to look at wells, like, um, that's true. In ground wells. Um, I imagine like you were saying with mining and all that kind of stuff, you know, um, or ravines, that kind of thing.

But yeah, typically it's not like a forest where you're totally obscured by trees and that kind of thing. Yeah, I would imagine that this, they're thinking, at least this isn't a forest that we have to look through. Yeah, but then again, think about how vast it is, you know? Yeah. You have to really, really do a very careful kind of tracking of how you search. So in early July, Buckeye Police searched Daniel's Tempey apartment, coordinated further searches with Civil Air Patrol, did more aerial sweeps of the region, nothing.

By mid-September, Buckeye Police stated they had searched more than 70 square miles of desert using ground teams, UTVs, cadaver dogs, drones, and helicopters, and yet they still have no clues as to where he is. July 19, 2021, this is when they discovered Daniel's Jeep. July 19th, nearly a month after Daniel was last seen, a local rancher discovered his 2017 Jeep Renegade lying on its side in a desert ravine on private land. And that's the other thing, you know,

if people own the land and they're the only ones with access to it. Like maybe it just doesn't get looked at for a while, you know? Right. So this rancher finds this Jeep and it's lying on its side in a desert ravine on private land approximately three to four miles southwest of Daniel's job site from that June day. Okay. Buckeye police said that rough terrain and the Jeep's position in the ravine made it difficult to spot from the air and from prior ground searches.

the Jeep had significant damage consistent with a rollover. The airbags had been deployed. And initial evidence indicated that the driver had been wearing a seatbelt at the time of the crash. Which is all just fascinating. It could have just been a car accident and then he crawled away and something happened. Sure could have been. Sure could have been. And that's why it's so frustrating.

It's like there are so many possible explanations. But then just some weird details that don't quite add up, you know. Right. Yeah, especially his behavior leading up to this seems off. Felt a little erratic. Investigators at the scene found multiple personal effects associated with Daniel. They did not find Daniel, but they found a pair of inside out jeans, a t-shirt, two inside-out socks, brown work-type boots, and a faded orange safety vest with a company logo. They also located a wallet with his college ID.

they located his cell phone, his car and house keys, and a backpack with work equipment. And not only that, but there was a whole case of bottled water still in the Jeep. And he wouldn't have... He would have known, right? Yeah, unless he, like, was acting erratic, so he was driving erratic, and then he got into car accident, I would have to assume you're hitting your head or something for you to be as oriented enough for you to leave your phone in keys and maybe a bottle of water. And water, like a whole case of water.

Yeah, I feel like he hit his head and just crawled away and got lost. You know, again, possible. One of the theories I read online was that, and again, please take this with a grain of salt, everyone I'm saying read the theory online. And I mean that that that's as much, you know, credibility as I have toward these theories. But as far as like somebody mentioned, you know, think about it if you were in that scenario and maybe you were knocked out for a while and you started to suffer from heat stroke or something in the desert, right? It's like 115 degrees.

And then you wake up and, you know, you're disoriented, you're suffering from heat stroke and you know how people begin taking their clothes off when they're either feeling, have experienced a traumatic situation that happens or when you're suffering from like extreme temperature dysregulation, you know. So that would make some sense with the clothes. We don't know if he had an extra pair of clothes with him that he would have changed into. The clothes didn't have blood on them, which was a little bit surprising. like there was no blood in the car. But like, yeah, he could have hit his head. He could have been knocked out. He could have been having some sort of break from reality

and wasn't thinking clearly, you know. Or it could have been foul play, right? Like there's no real way to know for sure. Investigators told Dateline there were no calls for help from Daniel's phone after the crash. And since that day, there had been no cash withdrawn and no signs that he left the scene with money or with any way to communicate. The fact that he apparently left on foot without his phone wallet or all the water

has been described, of course, as one of the most puzzling elements of the scene. 100%. And the clothes that were left there do match what Daniel was believed to have been wearing that day. So it's a little strange, you know, why, like, one shoe was like outside the Jeep, one was inside the Jeep. The clothes were tossed off. and inside out which means he was just ripping them off right right that too the socks and everything there was a hard hat filled with rainwater that was also recovered inside the jeep and that

was consistent with the vehicle having been exposed to some rain over you know some weather over a period of time no blood or clear signs of injury were documented and daniel like i said was not found anywhere near the crash site based on the scene in the presence of daniel's belongings in the Jeep. Buckeye police stated that no foul play was suspected, describing the situation as a missing person with a vehicle crash. And again, not to make that any less tragic, right? Of course, if this was a young man who was suffering from some sort of mental episode or suicidal adhesion, just is tragic, you know, and I just still wouldn't find him as much as you would before. But there's just debate as to, like, how he ended up missing. Right.

After the Jeep was recovered, Buckeye Police downloaded crash data from the vehicle's internal systems on July 21st and processed the Jeep for evidence July 22nd. In September and October of that year, the department hired a company called Santan Recon, which is a collision investigation firm. So they do like independent crash analysis and go to crash sites. And like, I think it's fascinating. I didn't even, it didn't even occur any if that would be a job. Yeah, there's like forensic everything now. nowadays, you know, especially because cars have like computers, basically. Oh, yeah. Okay. And you can, you can basically test for all sorts of stuff. But even this is

debated because people have kind of come away with different conclusions. So Santan Recon, their report concluded that Daniel's Jeep had been involved in a rollover crash and that this crash was the only collision recorded in the vehicle's internal systems. The report stated that the Jeep speed increased just before impact, which could indicate that the driver, attempted to drive up the far side of the ravine but misjudged the terrain and toppled over. Okay. Crash data logs indicated there were more than 40 ignition cycles after the crash, which is so scary. Which Santan Recon suggested could reflect attempts to either restart the vehicle or to use the electric system like the AC or the radio.

The report noted that some of the ignition cycles might have occurred during towing or during evidence download while they were trying. to access the data from the car. Maybe that contributed to some of the 40 starts. But yeah, 40 feels a lot. Yeah, exactly, exactly. The report also identified, and this is where people get, this is one of those things that gets debated, the report also identified in approximately 11-mile discrepancy

between the crash data mileage and the odometer reading. And Santan Recon concluded that such discrepancies were not unusual. and had been observed by Jeep service departments before. So they're basically saying, oh, 11 miles, that could just be like a fluke, like some sort of discrepancy. Okay. Yeah. And so I don't know.

I mean, I don't know enough about vehicle forensics or what have you, but Daniel's family says, hey, you need a better explanation for those 11 miles. And some people claim, well, maybe the 11 miles were added when the car was towed to the odometer. Maybe those 11 miles were added when it was towed somewhere. It turns out the car was actually towed on the car. a flat bed of a truck, so that wouldn't have added to it. So there's just a little bit of, like, confusion surrounding that fact, especially. And it's not like half a mile, right? It's like 11 miles feels. But I don't know, maybe that's just a Jeep thing. Jeep has weird things,

you know? Jeep has weird things. I got that death rattle. Yeah, I don't know, like, what is the limit for when it starts looking weird? I feel like over 10 is weird. It feels weird, but again, like, maybe I just don't know enough about cars. I just think about Ferris Bueller when they were like spinning the tires to make the odometer go backwards? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think of Matilda and Danny DeVito when he's scamming at a car lot to make the mileage go down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Wow. Definitely

different generational callouts. Okay. So, the family was not really feeling it with these results that the police came back with. And so they hired a private investigator named Jeff McGrath. He was an accident reconstructionist and a former police officer and detective.

And so when he was hired to look into this Jeep crash, he was able to analyze it as well and kind of give his own independent analysis of what happened. McGrath has publicly stated that he believes the crash scene was staged. Oh, I know. And this is where it gets like, oh, shit, right? So he believes that the crash scene was staged and that the vehicle may have been moved after the initial crash. Move to where, though?

I guess 11 miles from wherever it had initially crashed. Sure, yeah. I don't know. He has said that after the airbags deployed, the ignition appears to have been turned over dozens of times and that crash data logs show an additional distance of these roughly 11 miles after the airbag deployed, suggesting that the Jeep might have been driven

after the recorded crash and then left kind of toppled over to look like it had crashed there. Now, of course, this totally differs from the official conclusion, which was that this discrepancy was not unheard of or unusual. I mean, I really was feeling kind of confident in my like mental health one and like just like hit his head. And now it's sort of one of those where you really, you really are drawn to one theory and you're like, yeah, that's surely what happened.

And then you hear a few more details and you're like, well, it just like wriggles in a little doubt. You know what I mean? Yeah. for an expert to be saying it's not I mean that I'm sure that also like didn't help the family come to terms with maybe him having a mental health thing he was like well the experts literally think he didn't and right and so they're going to trust their own you know side of the story and they've really stuck to it McGrath also reported finding apparent red paint transfer on Daniel's Jeep which he believes indicates a prior collision with another vehicle before coming to rest in the ravine so Daniel's father. and supporters cite these findings as evidence that someone else may have been involved and that foul play cannot be ruled out and that's where they differ from the official ruling on july 29 2021 volunteer search crews located a human skull south of where the jeep was recovered but testing

determined that the remains did not belong to daniel robinson oh in November more human remains were this is how in-depth i feel like this goes to show how in-depth their searches were they did so many searches They found two sets of human remains that were not his. That's wild, especially because in a lot of your stories, I end up losing faith and, like, the search process. And I'm like, oh, it feels that they could have done more. And this town is like, we're doing everything we fucking can. Yeah. Well, it's the town.

It's his family who came from Arizona. His dad basically uprooted his, I'm sorry, came from South Carolina. His dad basically uprooted his whole life to move to Arizona, or at least for the most of the year and spend time searching. Wow. I was on Reddit and people were saying, yeah, like, again, grain of salt, but people were saying, you know, I was in the area. I remember when searches were happening and it was all hands on deck. People were out there doing grid searches searching over and over again. And the fact that they found two sets of human remains that were not Daniels is pretty wild to me.

Yeah, insane. Yeah. Buckeye police have also said other bones discovered during searches were analyzed but were confirmed to be animal remains. as of mid-20204 extensive volunteer searches led by Daniel's father and organizations such as please help find Daniel

have covered large areas of desert around Sun Valley Parkway and beyond but there's still no confirmed trace of Daniel's body which is so alarming too that the car was found and you're able to do like almost a search around the car and expand and still find nothing. It's just shocking to me

do they also believe that like since it was kind of if it was a setup that even the clothes being there was a setup like basically they yeah they think that whoever did it made the story look so obviously like mental health that I'm just totally falling for it yeah or just like not even necessarily mental health but just like oh I've killed this person now I'm gonna leave his car in a ditch and hide the body it look self-inflicted or something or whatever it is just to act like he crashed wow and and walked away for help and never came back something like that I think is I believe is the is the theory this has

drop me down a few pegs on thinking I could be a detective because I'm really convinced the other way it's confusing it's so confusing where do you stand or do you not want to say um I'll say I think at the end because I I do I feel like there's more to kind of add to the to the to the description to the evidence sure um so police have said they investigated at least one reported citing of Daniel because again we have no proof that he's even dead right like I mean Occam's razor says probably but like there's no proof of that um they concluded that digital evidence from his phone and vehicle did not match any witness accounts um that have come through david robinson the father has stated that tempi police forensic review of daniel's electronics indicated that someone accessed his

apartment and used his computer after june 23rd after he disappeared oh okay but that's also not anything we have publicly proven because the Buckeye police say nope our digital forensics did not find any any note of that okay but then the family says Tempe police said that there was somebody searching his google history fooling around on his computer um but then the police were like nope so it's again like he said he said so it's just really a messy situation and just really tragic. Like I said, Daniel's father has been publicly very critical of the initial law enforcement response, arguing that police were slow to treat his son's case as urgent and did not maximize early resources. He said he has to push for additional searches and ultimately just began doing

his own large-scale volunteer search operations. And I think that's not abnormal for a missing person's case. I feel that that is a common situation that it ends up being volunteer-led and family-led Yeah, his family seems to like really give a shit, like super really care to their core. Yeah. Other family members have echoed this concern

telling reporters they worry that early delays could have cost valuable time and evidence. Buckeye police in public statements and on the official case page say they've worked continuously on the case, searched more than 70 square miles, coordinated with multiple outside agencies, and remain committed

to locating Daniel, reiterated. though, that foul play is not suspected based on the evidence they have reviewed. Daniel's father, David, like I said, relocated much of his life to Arizona. He searches and advocates for his son on an almost daily basis. He has organized dozens of volunteer searches in the desert, and by April 2025, he described a major search as their 50th organized effort to search for Daniel. Oh, my God. It's just so heartbreaking.

And I can't even tell, I mean, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, know but to hear that when they found two other sets of human remains i don't even know if that gives me hope or if that gives me less hope because it's like oh well they were able to find these we weren't even looking for them yeah so maybe but then that would i guess it would mean but if they couldn't find him but they could find these other things and what does that tell you that yeah it's almost like what does that even mean what does that mean for this case the case has drawn national attention from missing persons advocates and other families um in large part because in 2025, Gabby Petito's father, Joseph Petito, because I don't know if you remember when

Gabby Petito, that whole thing unfolded, that was during this time that Daniel disappeared. And so in 2025, Gabby Petito's father, Joseph, joined one of the searches for Daniel Robinson and expressed public solidarity with David Robinson and called attention to Daniel's still unresolved disappearance. Daniel's family maintains social media accounts, dedicated to the search, they don't like to have people come on and say it's mental health or what have you. They're pretty much closed off to that angle for what it's worth. You can go on other subredits like Unresolved Mysteries and see more kind of Occam's Razor style takes of mental health or car crash, that kind of thing. As far as we know, there's about a $10,000 reward for

information leading to Daniel's whereabouts that's still active. As of mid-2020-24 into 2025, Daniel Robinson remains missing. This year, nothing new has emerged. No confirmed physical remains have been identified as his. The Buckeye Police Department lists his case as an open missing persons investigation and states on its official site that foul play is not suspected. Investigators say they continue to analyze evidence and they say the FBI was briefed on the case, but Daniel's father says that the police are lying about that. So that's another kind of

conflicting story. Daniel's father, PIs, and many supporters argue that the available evidence, including the condition of the Jeep, the clothing in and around it, the crash data anomalies, and the alleged post-disappearance computer activity point toward the possibility of foul play and that they need to look into that angle, which, I mean, is a fair request, I would say. so as for what we don't know we don't know much but it remains unknown why daniel left his work site after only 15 minutes drove deeper into the desert instead of back toward phoenix and never contacted his family or employer again there's still no total definitive explanation for the condition of the crash site including why his clothes and boots were found um in or near the jeep while he was not

and why there was no blood or evidence of injury in the vehicle. That's what freaks me out, too. It's weird, right? I feel like if there was foul play, there would be at least some evidence of blood. But I guess if the car was moved and, you know, maybe something happens later. Well, they're saying they're surprised there's no sign of blood after a crash.

Oh, I was even thinking about that. There was no sign of blood like anywhere in the car after what seemed to be a pretty big car crash. I guess so. I'm less surprised by that because I, feel like you could have just flipped and hit your head and that was kind of yeah yeah i i agree that's kind of kind of easily debunked in my mind um the discrepancy between the official santan recon crash support which concluded that the odometer difference was not unusual and the p i's view that this appears the car appears to have been driven after airbag deployment remains unresolved

there's no um that is there's no what do you call it uh solution there between those two conflicting accounts. Allegations that someone accessed Daniel's apartment and computer after he disappeared, combined with the absence of a named suspect, continue to fuel speculation that another person may have been involved, even though the police state that digital forensics show no sign of foul play. And then more than three years after Daniel was last seen, we basically, all we have, as the central facts of the case,

are that he left his remote work site. His crashed vehicle was found nearly a month later with his. belongings inside but no sign of him. Extensive searches and investigations have yet to determine what happened to him or where he is. But if anybody has any information, you are urged to call 623-349-6-4-1-1. That is the Buckeye Police Department in Arizona. They said we'll take anything, any sightings, any leads that are out there. And that is the story of Daniel Robinson. I also, I don't know if this is important. I don't know if I'm like saying something that doesn't matter here, but you did say it was in 2021. It was within the year of George Floyd. Oh, interesting.

And this, you know, the person that's missing being black, I don't know if just because there was a rise in racial injustice and racial violence. I don't know if that, it contributes at all, but it does, it just, I just am putting that out there too as just an added note of like, maybe there was something going on there. I don't know if Buckeye, Arizona is particularly redder or blue or whatever, but I don't know, to be honest with you. And when you look at the, when I, it's hard to say, right, because I look at it and think, like, you want to be, I don't know the right way to say it. You, you want to side with the family and say, like, yeah, this is not fair. Like, they need to look into more of this. And then part of me looks at this young man. He's about 24 years old, which is the age

that a lot of mental illnesses present in young men. And you think like, okay, that's when bipolar schizophrenia, these things often emerge. He's moved away. He was rejected. He clearly was having intense feelings when we're in the, another was turned down, was clearly going through it to some extent. I don't know. Like part of me just thinks, well, it seems, and his friends and family said he was acting a little down or different. Yeah.

And saying weird things. It's just, I struggle to convince myself it's anything but kind of the tragedy of mental health or some sort of head injury. But like, I don't want to dismiss the family by saying, oh, I know better because I don't, you know. Right. I am right there with you. And also, like, we don't know.

maybe he and this is also not to diss the family at all but maybe this was a family who like didn't believe in mental health issues like and so maybe they're just like really digging their heels they don't want to consider that right yeah but i mean it does sound like he was having a bit of like a manic or psychotic episode in some way of i don't i don't know what the right word is i don't know which i don't want to try a diagnose him but it sounds it sounds like he was out of his mind a little bit and just kind of acting erratically and i think the if our theory is accurate and it's the mental health thing i think the most impressive thing is how he was able to get so far away and so hidden by the time people were looking for him but i would imagine yeah the car just kind of toppled

over it was glitching in some way or even if he tried turning it on maybe he was kind of in and out of consciousness trying to get the car started and couldn't or and then you think like if you're out to heat your car won't start you get heat stroke yeah you're delusional you hit your head yeah i mean i don't know and again like this is a lot of ifs right like if you were in this scenario and if this happened but then if you think about it like the foul play is a lot of ifs too like if somebody had it out for you and if they planted your car it just feels like all these scenarios don't totally add up um yeah it's just hard to say and if it was a if it was foul play i mean They did a great job covering it up because it does seem more like it would be a mental health situation.

Especially maybe one thing if this was like he drove into the city, but it's like he drove into a very isolated area. Yeah. Like unless there was a random desert person who happened to want to hurt somebody in that exact moment and knew just how to do it and get away with it. That's the other thing. Yeah. Or maybe he drove to a completely different distance and then the guy drove the car back. That would require somebody then either having a second car to drive away from the scene after they've planted the car there or walking by foot out of there, which both would have evidence too. All these series adds so many more, like, strings that would have to be attached to make it plausible.

I really think, like, unless they find his remains, that it's going to be pretty unclear, you know? I agree. Yeah, it's really sad. but that is the has a case so young too um really really sad so i just hope they get some answers right one way or another um yeah eventually so but when we've seen we've seen much less likely cases get solved so let's hope okay yeah i hope so i think we're i think our theories are just about the same yeah that's where i end up you know it's like I want to say, oh, yeah, there's some big cover up, but it's like, it's just hard to kind

of get there, um, yeah, mentally for me with the steps. I don't know, man. It's pretty rough, but Arizona got a shout out today, huh? I know. Big time. Big time. Um, well, thanks for your story, Christine. You're welcome. Uh, sorry for bumming you out, everyone. Um, I, well, I was researching this, I've stumbled across several other terrible desert stories of people ending up in the desert without water. And have you ever heard of the Death Valley Germans? It's like this German tourist family.

It's so sad. It's just horrible. They wanted to go see Yosemite and they think the car got trapped. And these two little kids were with their parents and they tried to walk. And it took like 10 years to find their remembrance. remains it's just horrible i mean it's like and people make really good point on really good points on reddit two of like people who live in the area are like people underestimate how scary and how scary it is and like how quickly you can be incapacitated just by heat by dehydration um snakes

i mean at night especially like it's just a dangerous place um i mean honestly a snake is not a bad theory with that guy too i mean like if the snake would just eat him whole and go away and digest him and that's how nobody would have found him i don't think it meant that they eat them i think it just meant that they like fight them i know but i'm i was like oh well if we were to if we were to wildly exacerbate a theory here i think a bow constrictor aren't they like in the jungle or am i don't know how big snakes get in the theory in the desert but uh but to add to your point nobody knows how scary the desert is there could be an animal just carried them away and eating snake in there I guess, yeah.

I think they must mean rattlers, but in which case you'd probably find his remains. Sorry, I just looked really stupid. I didn't eat him, but maybe. But something could have eaten him and carried him away. That is a theory we haven't discussed. Yeah, that's true. But I feel like usually with animal, animal texts, you'd find at least bone, like some bones. Yeah, you're right.

You're right. You know. But like maybe, I mean, again, it's such a, I feel like people underestimate just how broad a swath of land. And just a portion of a desert can be and rocks and ravines. And if he went somewhere to find shade, right? And then, like, stayed there and passed away. You know, there are so many possibilities. I absolutely underestimate how scary a desert is.

I don't know. You think that there were, like, man-eating snakes out there. So I think you're just right on target. I'm trying, but I'm aiming the wrong way, I think. Like, I... That's probably, yeah, let's stay put where you are in L.A. Yeah. We should maybe not be going out to the desert anytime soon, either of us.

No. Well, yeah. All right. Well, it sounds like you have other desert stories you're looking at, so I'll get ready for- Unfortunately, I do, and they really scare me. They're, like, really freaky to me. I'll get ready for more of those then. Yeah, yeah, good.

Yeah, brace yourself, you know. All right. Well, thank you, everybody. We will see you next week for more. For more, question mark. That's why we drink.