And That's Why We Drink - E462 Dream Mall Rats and Whistleblowing Dogs

Episode Date: December 14, 2025

It’s Episode 462 and are you enjoying our latte ASMR? This week Em takes us to Chicago for the Jane Addams Hull-House and the tale of its baby devil hauntings. Then Christine covers the death of Lauren “El” Cho, a case that deserves more coverage than it received at the time. And will someone let us into Mall World for an Auntie Anne’s pretzel please? …and that’s why we drink! Photo Links:Jane Addams Hull-HouseLauren Cho Catch our bonus Yappy Hour intermissions on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3L28lDw or subscribe on Patreon: http://patreon.com/ATWWDPodcast!___________________Exclusive $35 off Carver Mat at https://on.auraframes.com/ATWWD . Promo Code ATWWD Give your loved ones a unique keepsake you’ll all cherish for years—Storyworth Memoirs! Right now, save $10 or more during their Holiday sale when you go to http://STORYWORTH.com/drink!S hop Mint Unlimited Plans at http://mintmobile.com/atwwd If you think you or someone you know might be struggling with OCD, please don’t wait to get help. Go to https://learn.nocd.com/ATTWD and book a free call with their team to learn more Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When you're flying Emirates business class, enjoying a good night's rest in your lie flat seat, you'll see that your vacation isn't really over until your flight is over. Fly Emirates, fly better. This week I drink because I'm very ill. I have OCD. I'm actually feeling a lot better in recent years. Thanks in big part to NoCD, one of our sponsors, whom I love dear Lee, because OCD is a lot more than the stereotype. types of like, I mean, I love the show monk, right?

Like, it's a great show, classic TV. But there's a lot more that's misunderstood about OCD. If you or someone you know struggles with this kind of thing, it's worth looking into no CD. Yeah, OCD is a serious and highly misunderstood condition that causes people to get stuck in a cycle of stressful, unwanted thoughts, and repetitive physical behaviors. And, you know, it can be scary and disturbing or make you feel completely out of character. And it can be really debilitating. But because there are so many misconceptions, a lot of people don't know.

that they have it. They feel shame about their symptoms, and they even suffer in silence. But with no CD, help is on the way, dear. Not every therapist understands OCD or is qualified to treat it effectively, which can make it difficult to find the right help. OCD is highly treatable, though, with a specialized type of therapy called ERP or exposure and response prevention. That's what I've done, and it has worked wonders. It's known to be the most highly effective treatment for OCD, and no CD knows that. With no CD, you can do live virtual ERP therapy with licensed therapists who specialize in OCD. And no CD therapists are highly trained so they really understand OCD and won't judge you no matter what your thoughts are about. And no city therapy is covered by

insurance for over 155 million Americans. Go to nocd.com and book a free call with their team to learn more. That's NOCD.com to schedule a free call and learn more. How's your instrument? Tune it. Tune it. It is still deeply affected, afflicted by a sinus infection. But you know what? Otherwise, it's not like the cute thing where, like on friends where my voice sounds

better when I'm sick. It just sounds more nasly and I blow my nose a lot and it's really unfortunate. So I do apologize. I was hoping by now mid-December-ish that I'd be healed. But I guess I'm just in for perpetual illness. I... Don't envy you. But I also, I have evaded getting a cold so many times already that my day is coming.

And like, that's what happened. It took me like two years. I think I'm someone listening is like, you were sick three months ago. Probably true. But it feels like I haven't been sick and so long. And this one just like came back to kick my ass, you know? The worst colds are when you haven't had a cold in a while. And it's like all building up.

It's like vengeance on you. And it's like, while we're here, why don't I add a couple other viruses to weeks? I feel like I accidentally just conjured it by saying, Oh, I'm due. But I just went to Seattle for Thanksgiving. There was a few people there sick. Oh, yeah. Big group.

It almost got me there, but I dodged her. It almost got me. There have been a few times where someone's like, oh, by the way, I'm sick. And I just found out, whoops. And then I'm like, oh, so I'm really, I'm just going to stay inside. Yeah, I think that's probably the best situation for everybody. And for like, it's hibernation season. you know like couldn't sound more like an introvert i know it's really nice it feels so good i know i haven't

left the house i have like a little app where i track like daily like just to like see like moods and like what i did today and like did i brush my teeth and all these other things that helps with ADHD and stuff and um for the last like four days i've had to check not left the house it's just getting it's getting to be a lot is that like a reward or a bad thing on your list no it's not anything it's just like, oh, I'm just going to mark it to like later see. But I've noticed it doesn't really affect my mood as much as I thought it would. Like my mood is still kind of, it's not dependent on whether I leave. I think in the winter. I think when it's nice out, I start to feel kind of weird if I don't leave the house. But when it's cold, fuck that, man. But that's, I mean,

I understand totally because, well, when it comes to the winter, during the summer, I, I, I love being inside. So, like, yeah, it's the best. It really doesn't affect me all that much. And the winter i think i enjoy it more because then nobody judges me for not leaving because i'm yeah exactly it feels like oh we're hibernating that's part of the whole thing yeah i mean you know you read about like huga or whatever in uh in like sweden you know no face okay in like denmark and sweden you know you read about blah la you know okay it's called huga h y g g-g-e you may have seen that word around it's like this concept of like um it's like this nordic concept of like cozy like they get rough winters, but like Denmark is, I think the happiest, I think Denmark's the happiest country

in the world. And so they've done studies like, how on earth do these people, or how are they so happy, and then they don't get sunlight and they don't leave the house? And it's because they have this concept of like, oh, we all just like bundle up indoors. The floors are heated. Like every house has heated floors. Everything is like built for you to be comfortable. The system is rigged for them. Exactly. And like you have like these built in communal events. and family things so you're not like alone you know and so it's all kind of structured in this community way which i think is lovely and like i don't have that here i'm living in a mess and it's chaotic and i'm usually by myself but you know it's a really great concept to strive for i love that

i mean i would love to practice that because um i'm already inside and now it's like it's like it's like cozy type you know it's like that vibe and it's it's really lovely and it's like kind of it's universal there like it's not a class thing it's not like oh certain families have it certain people don't um it's just kind of the norm and i thought that was really really charming i love that i thank you i have seen that word and i've one never knew how to pronounce it and two never knew what it was it's a weird one it's a weird one um yeah you just um gave me rabbit hole thank you so much oh speaking of rabbit holes can i tell you why i drink this week that it would be weird if you didn't on the show.

Fair enough. So I've been, I've like stumbled upon this before. I mentioned this right before we recorded as something I want to talk about more in the interim. What do we call it? The intermission. But it's the idea of the gate program and how, okay, so gifted and talented programs and how they are, like I'm sure you've seen this on like TikTok and stuff of like how they were related to potentially the theory, the, what do you call it, conspiracy?

theory is that it's connected in some way to the CIA and their like study of um psychic abilities and remote viewing and all that and different altered states of consciousness and so I went down this rabbit hole in TikTok of people saying like remember you'd get called in for a hearing test and they would put these big like headphones on you and they'd be like different levels of frequency and sounds and this guy would be giving you instructions and then they would only pull certain kids and then you'd like there were so many creepy things like oh there was a little pink drink they had you drink beforehand and I'm like what the fuck and I went through this rabbit hole of like oh shit I remember half this stuff and I remember my mom pulling me out of it because she was like I'm not

comfortable with this and she asked too many questions and they were like you're no longer part of the program you're not eligible for no longer eligible no uh you know I'm not on that side of TikTok, but I fully could get invested today. It's fascinating. I thought you were going to go a different route. First, I didn't know what the gate program was until you just said, GIFT and Talented. I think Gate is the CIA one. I think I'm getting them.

Okay. I think Gaye is CIA and then gifted and talented is the actual, but they're like weirdly close by a letter. Sure, sure. So that's part of the conspiracy. I thought you were going to get the route I'm on where anytime I hear Gifted and talented on my TikTok, it's because someone's talking about how they were actually just neurodivergent. Oh, yeah. We're also mentally ill and they're a different. It's like they

needed a place to put us until everyone caught up or until we caught up. Yeah. They're probably, those probably also end up going hand in hand to say there's two rabbit holes. Yeah. There's an overlap there. Well, then you say like a lot of neurodivergent kids are involved in the telepathy tapes or something. Oh yeah. Yes. So like maybe there is like go into the gifted program. The autism spectrum. Yeah. Then you get recruited. There's something about the telepathy tapes. I've obviously never experienced anything about the, I don't know what that's about.

But I've heard a million people tell me it's so incredible. Oh, good. It's so good and so crazy. I mean, it like blows your whole worldview wide open. As you've excellent other rabbit hole to put me down. Thank you so much. Yeah, no, that one's fun. I'm glad that you haven't like gone downing yet

because I feel like we have a lot to discuss once you do. You're totally right. Why the fuck were they making us go sit in trucks and listen really hard? Okay. And it was always like a truck, it was always like a mobile truck away from school like it was always in a truck and it was always like or a trailer or whatever and it would be like random like some kids would get called out randomly and then like you never got i mean as far as i know never got results or like yeah i never got results

so weird i guess there was i i and i'm sure there's some excuse there i know the truth maybe but like excuse they have some excuse they're going to tell us yeah but um no i i i remember it happening like randomly one year only and then never hearing heard i guess like to evade embarrassment maybe they wouldn't tell you there were good or bad results unless they really need to talk to you or something but like yes i don't know they're like we don't want to embarrass you but you can't hear out of your left ear yeah also like did we need a test for that i'm pretty sure um we would know don't they do that i do hearing tests or at least a lot of places states do hearing tests and so i'm like i get it and i have gone to when i you know famously punctured my own ear

um i did go to the ear doctor and they did a hearing test and it was in a weird closet and they did put these giant 80s headphones on me so part of me is like okay to be fair like the real hearing test i got was pretty similar but it's all the other stuff like how they were kind of random and sporadic and then also always in a trailer and then always um like not always but a lot of people had to drink this weird pink fluoride drink which is like what the fuck is that about like if my daughter came home and was like they made me drink this gross thing and And like, there's robots in your body now. Yeah, like, I'm calling the police.

What the fuck, you know? They can't make you drink a gross pink mystery cocktail. I don't know. It's just like, what's going on? And then they would like have us lay down. And some people talk about like, oh, and they would never let you bring home your paperwork. And a couple people on TikTok have found like their old folders that they like somehow had kept. And like they would go through.

And there are some weird ass worksheets in there like decode Russian letters. And it was like practicing. like decoding all these random symbols and letters. You buried the lead, Christine. That's incredible. Yeah. And then a lot of the paperwork too is, and they have like the originals from the 90s or early 2000s.

And it'll be like all about like they were apparently obsessed with whales. And everyone's like, oh yeah, I remember learning so much about whales. And then somebody said, well, think about it. They communicate with like frequency like sound. Yeah. And it's like, you know, maybe there's something to it. I don't know. Listen, it's a great rabbit hole.

Oh. Oh my God. And then mall world. have you heard of Mall World? I'm really losing it. This is why I should probably leave the house. Everyone's like, okay, we're starting to worry. But really, it's fascinating. This woman on TikTok made a post called Mall World. She's like, I decided to map out where I dream every night. Like I go to this place that I call Mall World. I'm going to map it out. It's so ridiculous. And everyone in the comment, not everyone, but a lot of people in the comments are like, that's where I go when I dream. And I shit you not. I'm looking at this going, holy fuck, the parking garage is right there. I know exactly where that parking garage is. What the fuck? I know. And now I'm like in this extra rabbit hole of like, what is this weird communal consciousness of like where we go to dream? Does mall world have anything to do with a mall? Is it a mall?

Yeah, well, there's a mall and then it has all these other things attached to it. So there's like a water park where I've been to. Although in my dream it was Jason DeRullo's water park and there's a water park attached to it. And you know what? And Jason Derrillo's dream too. It's his water park. No, in that dream it's my water park. Oh, right.

And his dream is my water park. But it's like, oh, there are all these parking garages. And then there are the bathrooms where. there are like thousands of stalls and they're all broken and it's like yeah we've all been there um just weird stuff where it's like it's probably some universal consciousness like human dream it's probably just how our brains work or whatever like the same as we see the hatman you know so many people see things like the hat man or whatever maybe it's something to do with that but um it's fascinating i wonder if like you have to have like some i'm i'm not to sound like a wild person

because I'm trying to rationalize dreams. But maybe you have to have some sort of clearance to access mall world because I don't have that clearance. I have nothing you said I've ever dreamt. But I have worlds that I go to and maybe that's like on the other side of town. Maybe there are other people who do like, do go to that one, you know? Maybe like it's like a very like segregated space where it's like, oh, all the mall rats go here and then all the people that go to, I don't know, some other location.

There's also an airport that attached to it. So it's like, oh. So that means canonically people do fly to other locations. Well, the thing is, every time I'm in the airport, which I've had the same dream for like three nights in a row, and it's like a stress dream, I think, I'm always like running late or missing my flight or can't find my suitcase. So it's never like I leave the airport. It's like I'm just trapped there. And so a lot of the dreams that people talk about are like, oh, I'm here, but I'm always stuck or I can't find the exit or it's so big that I never make it to the car or whatever. And then one of the theories, speaking of sounding absolutely nutty.

here I go, one of the theories is like, well, maybe this is just like a holding place so that we don't, like, to keep us, like, little lab rats. Like, keep us safe so we're not like wandering off into consciousness, like, into dangerous territory. That doesn't sound crazy to me. My guess was going to be, oh, well, then that just proves the things are a simulation and you just hit, like, the corner of the game. That's where we all go. Yeah, exactly. It's fascinating. And when she was like, I just posted Mall World as kind of a joke to be like, oh, look at this crazy place I've, I dream about. And everyone was like, I've been there.

And I had this freak out moment where I was like. Oh, no, but sometimes I dream like I'm in a parking garage and then I look and I'm like, oh my God, it's right there. I see exactly and that's where the entrance is. It's so weird. Anyway, it's a rabbit hole again, but. That's also blowing my mind because now I'm like, well, maybe if there are corners of the game where like you can't get farther than, which would then mean I, I thought I was on another side of town, but there is no other side of town. Maybe it's like an elevator and I'm downstairs. Oh, creepy. Yep. Yep. Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. During the intermission today slash yappy hour, we should, I'll pull up the map, the Antron map. Yeah, I would love that. See if there are any crossover, you know. I would love that. Wow. Remember when you said we should do this for intermission and now we've...

I know, and then I just couldn't help myself immediately. No, that's your road chill. That's fascinating. That's fascinating. Anyway, why do you drink? I drink because my tea doesn't have any lavender syrup in it, and I ordered it that way. so I'm travesty now just tastes like I don't know tea just plain raw tea leaf water yeah just dirt kind of yeah I do have lavender in the fridge but I'm like

I don't really want to get up um so that's the that's the one thing oh the real reason I drink this week is because uh this weekend I went to go see the play I don't know if you've heard of it um it I don't I think it's I think it's new. It's called, it's paranormal activity based on the movie. But it's a play version.

No. And I didn't even know about it until I saw, like, people posting that they went there on Instagram. And I was like, I've got time this weekend. So I popped on over. I have never, that was such a good fucking play.

If it comes to your town for some reason, you have to go. It's just called paranormal activity? It's like, yeah. Oh, hell yeah. I haven't seen the movie in a long time. but I think it's inspired by. That's one of the only ones I've ever seen.

Like one of the only horror films I've actually watched in my adult years. It's inspired by it's not like a like a trude from the movie. It's like just like, oh, you get to watch paranormal activity happen live, basically. Ooh, how fun is that? It was. And actually, I'm not kidding, so fucking scary. Like, I've never been. That's what I was going to ask.

I've never been in a theater. It was like, it was like watching a movie because, and everyone had been given permission to react wildly because everyone in the audience was like, don't go in there. Oh my God, wait, I'm so excited. I want to see it. It was super scary. There's one scene in particular, I'm not going to spoil anything for anyone, but that was, I was watching it and I was like, oh, this is, like, I was jumping every now and then. Did you go alone? Yeah, I did. Oh my God. I just went randomly. And also, I'm kind of like a theater specific. I like to sit in one spot specifically. So I was like, okay. You have your own seat. Well, there was only one seat left in that area. And I was like,

it's meant to be so yeah I popped on over and um anyway I was sitting there and I was like I can't imagine this really gonna be scary like but people are saying it's really good so I'm just gonna enjoy the show and within like five minutes I literally my body did like the jump thing where I was like holy shit oh my god and then because it's theater and they have like literal sound and lights everything they were like making the sounds like just like scream at you and like the lights would freak like you everyone just walked out like with her adrenaline spiked for sure oh my god how fun and there was i'll tell you off camera but um or unless you're gonna go see it i don't want to spoil it for you either but there was there was one scene that if you ever do see it

we have to talk about it because it was for sure so like in that moment i literally grabbed the person ex me as like holy fuck i was like that's so scary it like it's such a good job with it um oh my god yeah i'm looking at our theater we're probably gonna get it late like i feel like if la la has it now we'll probably get it like in a year but um when it comes out i'm for sure going to see it because we have a pretty big theater scene here but we usually get things a little later and it was like a four-person show so like it was very because the the cool thing about it too set-wise is that it i've never seen a play where the stage was two floors and so you could see it was as if someone cut like a a Barbie dream house and half yeah that's cool and the bottom four at the same

time so while you're downstairs things are happening upstairs and oh my my god it was so good so um i drink because i i treated myself to that last minute and it was like super worth it so i want to go see that yeah that's honestly every time i go see a good play which is like most plays i go see it usually end up being good but whenever i go see a play i'm like damn i got to see more plays and then i never commit to that but i want to actually make that a thing you know i usually uh am strictly musicals i really i was just explaining this yesterday where if i am invited to a play i will ask first what it's about before i say yes but if it's a musical, I usually never ask a single question.

Yeah, you're like, I'm in, yeah. I'm hesitant about plays, but this one was for sure worth it. For those interested, Paranormal Activity is currently in Chicago, L.A., D.C., and San Francisco. Cool. So, um. Short, short run. Yeah, seriously. I mean, hopefully that means it'll get more, uh, more play. Yeah, I, it will. There's no, with the, and my reaction was like a matinee, like a random. Yeah.

Like, I can't imagine, like, on a Friday night when people are. Oh, yeah, have a couple of cocktails, go on a date. Oh, my gosh. Like, I was grabbing strangers. And I don't, I would not usually do that. I'm not, so. Yeah, I would, I would hope not. You could hear the couple next to me going like, oh, fuck.

Like, what are you going to do? It was very good. It was very good. I wouldn't see that because that movie scared the shit out of me like 15 years ago or whenever it came out. It was a very good reason to drink. Wow. I love it.

Yeah. good one good one that's why i drink what what's going on what's what happens next i tell a story i think it's you know i must go back to the drawing board and see and see what the blueprints say but i think next you tell me a tale okay so if you were to go to my mom's house um it would look like she lived in a magical wizarding castle because every single frame on her wall happens to move wow it's just a nice little slide show of all these pictures of just m honestly of just me because when you're the only child there's really no competition but this is possible because of her aura frames loves a picture but she doesn't want to

have to switch them out in between frames and stuff and we get bored easy you know it really is the best gift like it's because it's the easiest gift right it's so easy and it's so thoughtful like it's impossible to find something that's like easy to give to so many different people and like also just really kind and thoughtful you can preload photos on it before you gift it which is like so cool because then they open it and they're already photos of m just like rolling around in there only if you're so lucky you just download the aura app and connect to Wi-Fi and you preload photos before it even ships so you can keep adding from anywhere anytime they also include a gift box which is great so you know

what talk about easy for a limited time save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com to get $35 off ORA's best-selling CarverMatt Frames named number one by wirecutter by using promo code ATWWD at checkout. That's A-U-R-A-Frames.com promo code ATWWD. This deal is exclusive to listeners and frames sell out fast or order yours now to get it in time for the holidays and support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. Hang on, let me do a little stir of my lavender.

In case this does anything for anyone. It makes me thirsty. Which is a nice reminder to drink some water. We haven't done that in a while. Well, Ratties. I'm very jealous of you that you, well, I know you're going to say I shouldn't be, but I'm very jealous of you that you have a dog that has to get groomed because then you get like a before and after moment.

Like you get to do fashion show at lunch with him. Oh, yeah. Well, the only reason, like, I don't, it's a pain in the ass and I'm usually really bad at keeping up with it. But if I don't, he gets really itchy skit. like he just gets itchy and matted and it's like ends up having to be but yeah don't be it's a lot it's it's kind of a pain the ass i would imagine it's like money wise it's not fun like it's not cheap either i like that i save money because he yeah it's pretty expensive i'll be honest

i mean and like we you know i'm happy to support local groomers all that of course and it really does save a lot of trouble with like his his skin and stuff but um well i'm also jealous of you because your dog doesn't shed and everywhere I go, I'm just riddled with fucking hair now. That's the best part. So no clothes are safe. No clothes are safe. Yeah, that's where you should be jealous because that part is a game changer that I

didn't even realize until I was a little older. And I went, oh, fuck. Yeah, I've just had to learn to live in, like, in disgust. Yeah. You know, genius marketing, I don't even know about marketing, just genius business idea. At our dog park, a portable groomer always parks out front. Oh, smart. And you can always tell when someone has used the crimmer because all of a sudden their dog comes in a little too clean.

And I'm like, you're like, straight to the mud. Yeah, I was like, you should have done this on your way out, but whatever. Okay, I do have a story for you. I'm not just trying to hold off on that. Okay. It's a story from Chicago. Chicago. And, oh my God, I think I heard my very first true Minnesota accent recently.

Oh. by race name in yesterday. Because I've heard people that, like, have a little twang of it. But I met someone who was like, I think was Minnesota personified. I didn't, I didn't know what the hell was going on. He was talking to me and I was like, where are you from, buddy? I was like, what is going? I honestly, I thought, I'm so sorry.

I thought he was like, like, I thought English like was maybe his second language because he, it was such a different accent than what I'd ever heard. I was like, oh. You never heard it before? Like a Minnesota accent? that deep. It was like, and I'm wondering if it was maybe like mixed with like a, like a different exit. I don't know what it was. But then he was like, oh, I'm born and raised from Minnesota. And I went, what? Yeah, it's intense. Where did you meet this person?

At the dog park. I was like, oh, okay. Our dogs love each other and him and I were finally making small talk. But I've always heard him talking like with another group of people and I was like, where's he from? And then I just would have ever think about it. And then, but it was like, usually I could pick those things out and I'm from the States I can usually guess where people are from but the way that he spoke I was like this guy is from a whole other world

I can't wait to learn about him when we eventually bump into each other and then I have a lot of questions his friends left my friends left and it was just the two of us and I was like okay time to get it going I can't wait to hear like you know what he's been up to in his life and he was like drinking beer

eating cheese I'm from Minnesota and this is the first place I've ever gone Ever gone? Does he live here? Born and raised Minnesota and recently moved here. And I was like, oh, what a big fucking jump, man. So anyway, I have to relearn accents. I got a, I don't know.

Seriously, you've been in that bubble too long. It blew my mind. I was like, I was, it was refreshing to be like, oh, wow. I've never really officially heard this, I guess. Anyway, Minnesota, shout out. Your accent is cool and crazy. And I thought for sure I knew what was going on over there, but I don't. And M thought it was a foreign language for a minute.

I was like, I couldn't have, I couldn't place the, the, like, it could have been, might as well have been just a different city in the U.S. I didn't, I couldn't have guessed the country either, but I was like, he's certainly not from here. Fascinating. L.A. Yeah. But yeah, blew my mind.

I was like, wow, I'm humbled. I guess I don't know as much as I thought I did about accents. Interesting, interesting. So shout out to Minnesota man. Already forgot your name. So sorry. Oh, wow. You were that, you were that blown away.

I do know his dog's name. So shout out to her. That's more important. Yeah. Okay. This is from Chicago, not Minnesota. I don't know why. Anyway, this is the whole house.

The whole house. That sounds familiar, but I think maybe not. Thank you. I thought it sounded familiar too. It feels like something I would know about, but then, like, can't put my finger on what, you know? I honestly should have done some recon and seen if I covered it in one of our books. Because this does sound so familiar, but I'm wondering if I just saw it on so many listicles and kept putting it off. Right.

And it also sounds like Hill House. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. But I did look it up. By the way, fun fact, again, if you did not know,

we have an episodes tab on our website where you can search any topic and see if we've covered it. And we search it regularly to make sure. That's what happened last night for me. I have not covered it before on the podcast. So here we go. Okay.

This is Chicago in 1856. The Hall House was built. although it was called the hall mansion at the time so be respectful about that yeah seriously what the fuck um hall mansion thank you for playing well i mean like why would you down i mean not down vote what am i doing like on reddit um why would you like demote them from i guess it's because like the definition of a mansion changes i don't know now we have like mcmansions i don't know i guess so although i think i've told you this before do you know the difference between a mansion and a house i mean it's like the square footage right it's it has to be 5,000 square feet

and have five bedrooms okay so that's a mansion yeah so maybe back then it was just different yeah qualifications well there is an answer to why it is changed from mansion to house oh okay but i love that you were so ready to fucking fight for i got i don't know why i mean who cares but i was like although i feel like hill house i can or hall house i can see why like it has that yeah i would too for the alliteration i'd be like i think we're about the house actually yeah yeah yeah um what would your name what would your house's name be if you're going with she for or lamp. We call, well, I used to say, you know, like Lemp Mansion. I would call it Lamp Mansion. I think it's hysterical. You should bring that out. But like nobody gets it, so then it sounds like I'm calling my house.

Geo! Come here! Okay, you want to show everybody your back guy? Oh, he's going to look so handsome. Where's my meanies? Oh, you smell good. beautiful handsome oh wow oh and you can see like how fluffy he is like and he's so smells so good which is oh wow you are extra fluffy today oh i'm so jealous of your hand i'm so jealous oh is he going to look his we knee yep okay anyway thanks for thanks for showing up he said it's not clean enough back to my ways i'm not classy gent Um, okay, bye. He just wanted to come in and show me.

I'm so jealous of you. Leaving again. Oh, wow. His tail. Let me see you can see it. Show us. Oh, my gosh. It's like someone's wig went missing. It literally looks like somebody just cut straight bangs like on a wig, like a bowl cut. That's very funny. Sorry you saw like trash and like my medicine in the background, but oh well. No, no one was looking at that. We were looking at his Karen Bob of a haircut on his tail.

That's what it is. It's like a Karen cut. Yeah, on his tail, which is absurd. There has been a discourse on TikTok about renaming it the fuck-ass bob. That's good, too, yeah. I think Gio just has a fuck-ass bob on his touchy. I mean, honestly, I think he would agree with that. Thank you for showing us. I really needed that.

That was wonderful. Oh, I did too, that kind of warm my heart a little bit, because he's been real gnarly lately, and he's been late for his haircut, so. Precious. And he does smoke good. That's great. He smells good, which is a rarity, you know. I literally, I don't know how I feel filled with those.

I literally spray his little sprits of cologne on Hank because I'm like, it's just got to be better. What if you, what if we got canceled because you spritz cologne on your dog? I never know if it's like, we'd never have seen that coming. That would have been the most outrageous. Well, I just, everyone's got an opinion on what you should and should do with your dog. But I mean, he's even fine. I think that one is pretty okay. I don't know.

I'm still due to this. I'm scared all the time. But no, I, he smells like Jay Collister, which by the way. is a retired, defunct smell these days. You would find the most basic but also hard to get, like, exclusive situation. I tried to get more because it was my signature scent in high school and college. Oh, my God. And I still love it.

I don't fucking care. It smells great. And so I tried to look it up. But now it's literally as expensive as an expensive type of cologne because it's it like on eBay and shit. You can only get it on eBay for like $200. God. So I'm like basically going through the last bottle from like grad school at this point.

And I'm just like spraying it on my dog. You and Hank. He smells like old money now. Yeah. Oh, wow. That old mall money. In your mall world, can you actually pick me up some Jake Alster? I mean, honestly I'll check.

Yeah. I mean, I can usually never make it like to one side of the mall from the other. That's usually part of the whole situation. But once I do. Thank you. I got a feeling the Hollister is where the back rooms to Mall World are. oh my god honestly well you know how dark it is in there like that's probably part of the whole deal yeah it's just like like the back rooms for sure um anyway here we go so oh you were saying the lamp mansion i do think

you should bring back oh oh so i thought that was funny but then it's sort of like if people don't know what that is and they see our wifi they're like what the fuck you know because it's like it's not a mansion i don't live in a mansion by any deft stretch of the word so it's like it feels like a little bit like, I have to explain it, and then that's silly. Well, you know what we call ours? Yeah. What is it again? The Schultzforth Manor, and we don't live in a manner.

But Manor sounds like you, you, it's like a fun, like, it's a, it's a cute, quirky word, whereas, like, mansion feels like, like, holier than that or something. You would actually write in, like, a description of a Zillow house or something, if it were, you know what I mean? Yeah, I guess. But the, the definition of a manner is, like, the house, the, the house, the man. house people living on an estate next to many other houses they also own but manor feels like oh we're like kind of just like being silly like we're not we're being we're being like goofy about it goofy about it in like a fun way i feel like manor has more like playful tone to it thank you mansion just feels like why the fuck i'm you don't live in a mansion sure i would have just done shiltsworth cottage but we

already agreed to manner like three years ago so now i do like manner a lot because see that that's what's you guys got did that and i thought that was really the way to go. I was like, that's clever and fun, but our name doesn't quite, like, lamp sheifer, lamp, it just doesn't work. I don't know. So if anyone has any ideas, let me know. Right now we call it Gio's house with it, but we, we spell it H-A-U-S because it's like the German spelling. So it's beautiful. I love that. And that, that pretty much fits the bill, you know, especially with that Bob, that fuck-ass Bobby's going now. He like really runs the manor, if you know what I mean. He really does. Yeah, no, I understand. Well, so when it first came out,

It was the Hull mansion in 1856 in Chicago. And it was built for Charles Hull because every single building has to have your name involved in it. As I say, inside the Shultzworth Manor. Yeah, right. Like, how ridiculous. Well, while he was here, he was only here for, I guess, like a few years. And then they ended up moving away or he died or something like that. But they were here for a very short amount of time.

While they did live here, his wife died in the house. So that's ghost number one. And when Charles eventually died, the house was then, hands it over to his niece, who used it as tenement housing for the wave of immigrants coming through at the time. Okay. And they were immigrants of all sorts. Minnesota, everything. I was about to say it. You stole the words out of my mouth.

But it was a lot of immigrants. And in this neighborhood, it happened to be particularly poverty-stricken immigrants. and so they needed a lot of resources that they just didn't have at the time and it was I think I saw one source say that it was like seven families per unit we're living together oh my lord it was just super overcrowded and also there was a lot of dangerous working conditions for them and anyway it was not a good time they were they were coming here for a better life but the better life hadn't maybe happened yet so and then another source said that in between it becoming the hall mansion and then

being tenement housing, there was talk that maybe it was also a nursing home for a period of time, which if that's the case, then that's also a lot more deaths that for some reason aren't... Close to the veil. Art recorded. So eventually, okay, so his niece turns into tenement housing

and later on ends up donating it or selling it to a woman named Jane Adams. So this building is also often called the Jane Adams Hall House. Oh, okay. Um, so it was the Hulls, then it became Temit Housing and the niece who was in charge of that handed it off to James, Jane Adams. Let me tell you about Jane Adams. We fucking love her. I knew it. I felt it when you said her name. And you know why? It's because Jane is like one of the best names in the world. It is a great name. Every time I see Jane, I think, I got to add that to my like name. It's a great name. It's a great name. And also I was in love with Jane and Tarzan. It's a, it's a big name over here. You have a history, yeah. Yeah, we go back. We go back. And she knows. knows that. Or does she? That's part of the charm. That's the mystery. So Jane Adams,

she's a huge social reformer for her time. And I wouldn't even just say for her time. She should be remembered as a massive social reformer. She helped establish the country's juvenile court system. That was one thing she did. She fought for factory labor rights, especially during this time when there was a lot of, I mean, like I was reading stories about how the work conditions were so bad, people were just getting maimed and dismembered and, like, we're expected to just go back to work the next day. Right, there's nothing to do about it, right. And forget child labor laws.

I mean, so kids were working as young as five, I think, at the time. Anyway, so she established the country's juvenile court system. She fought for factory labor rights. She fought for better sanitation laws in the city. She fought for access to more schools in the city for children. And then I'm just going to rattle off a couple of her titles. She was a founding member of the Women's International League for Peace and Freedom. She was a founding member of the National Child Labor Committee.

She was one of the founding members for the NAACP. She was the president of the National Conference of Charities and Corrections. She was an officer in the National American Women's Suffrage Association. She was a leader of the Women's Peace Party. And she was the president of the International Congress of Women and the first woman ever to receive a Nobel Peace Prize. Jesus Christ I mean you think like we're living in such a backwards state right now but like state of the world I mean but like how far we've come dude like suffer she's like okay let's get started by trying to get five year olds off the workforce and fucking get the vote I mean for half the population it's just wild that's wild just to think like how much was on this woman's plate I mean Jesus Christ she was a busy girl and also thank you. God that she's not here right now because she'd be like what is happening what did I do this for yeah yeah yeah she'd be like I got to get back to work actually um hang on okay I was wondering if

he was going to tell me um I don't know why you said when you said tell me I was like tell you what and tell you joke did I say tell you about yeah you said if he's going to tell me he has to use the bathroom oh no because he the bells on the door yeah I know but in my head I was like tell you like about his dream I don't know I was like about his dream I don't know I was like I have been saying a lot of, use your words. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what it kind of sounded like. By the way, when he uses his words, it sounds like this. I love dog words.

That's so cute. So Jane moves in to the building. I'm going to just say they were friends. There's no information otherwise. Love this. My heart tells me maybe not just friends. Interesting. But who's to say?

her name was Ellen Gates star who has her own list of insane accolades right but like who would also marry Jane like which kind of self-respecting one at that time would marry her so it's sort of like you could see both ways like I could see this being like she's also queer but maybe it's just like there's no hope for me to actually get married I don't know and I did see on a few sources it called Ellen her partner but I think it probably just meant business partner right right and I can just only hope so yeah I mean we can hope for sure two bad bitches at the same damn time it's uh jane and ellen that's the only names you got to remember cute so friends with friends with ellen friends with yes friends with dorothy friends with ellen uh that that's how i'm going to look at things but love it whatever so they move into this house and as you can tell by their list of accomplishments they were clearly here to do some good so they open what they called the hall house because although it was the hall mansion, it was now a settlement house. So I think they just renamed it the whole house. Okay.

And so a settlement house was essentially a community center for all of the poverty-stricken immigrants that were desperate for resources in the area and couldn't get to them. Okay. And I think if it was not the first, it was one of the first of its kind in the United States to have like basically a resource center for immigrants or people in general who needed. It didn't have to be immigrants. Right. she offered as many resources here as she possibly could like i'm just going to list for you some

of the things that she was able to offer at the hull house for anyone in need okay um and this was this was had not been done before also so how she was able to whatever whatever her connections are it's insane she's an old soul man okay she was able to make the hull house a woman shelter for uh battered women uh and i think she also was able to uh offer them midwere wives if they were pregnant. Jeez. It was a homeless shelter. It was a daycare.

It was a public bathhouse for people who needed showers. It was an English secondary language school. She held citizenship classes here and job training. She hosted legal, employment, and social service aides for people. She offered public health programs. She offered meeting spaces for unions. And it also offered a, this is from multiple quotes, I kind of just slam them all together. A gym, a theater and art.

gallery, a music school, a drama group, a boys club, an auditorium, a public kitchen and cafeteria, a coffee house, a swimming pool, a book bindery, residents for working women. So they had to make a deal where if they were working, they could stay here and be housed. Kindergarten, they had a nursery, they had libraries, a post office, meeting in club rooms, art studios, and apartments for the residential staff. Not like, again, this is why I was so defensive. That's a fucking mansion. If it ever deserved a name, you know, like fuck off with a house.

that's insane that's insane and like it's hard enough to fund the arts in 2025 like they're getting chopped first right like she's like oh we have a gallery here just to like stimulate you know the art like we're in survival mode and all of you are in survival mode but that's we're going to also focus on like enriching your spirit you know what the fuck speaking of spirits you know who's you just really uh gave pat on the back to because ellen was in charge of the art gallery i knew like there's yeah that's beautiful god bless these people man and also like this is a reminder that in 2025 we can't offer public health care or daycare or food or books or anything to people or we don't i guess we don't we could we just don't

there's hank he's going to tell you something else no it's slurp slurp slurp oh i see but i just my brain stops working when i hear a dog slobbering everywhere i love him very much but it's i can't i was trying to do my notes last night and that was when he decided to like clean his armpit out and it was the craziest sound. Gio does this like chewing sound and I'm like, I'm going to scream. Yeah. I'm going to start screaming. So this is more for me than anyone else.

I just need to like hang out for a second. I get it. Also when he drinks water, he drinks the whole fucking bowl. Oh my God. I know. I had to teach him water so he'll actually drink. He like doesn't remember to. It's very scary.

I don't think he realizes how important it is. I love how our dogs have like no survival instincts. Not one. Not one. He would run to the coyotes if he could. you're like friends but yeah we could we could offer all those things

and we just don't it's crazy and also that a woman who barely had any rights was capable of putting it all together but like think about the fact that there are people like that today like she's probably reincarnated into someone doing the exact same thing today

that doesn't get any recognition you know like we don't even know that they're doing this that's just it's people like this do exist and that's what I feel like Mr. Rogers always like find those people yeah no really he would say like find the helpers and I feel like that's the person like in every age there are some and they often don't get recognition so that's fascinating I'm so glad that she at least got like I mean the first woman to get a Nobel Peace Prize it's like I can't imagine a person where it's incredible yeah that's incredible so through all of these resources she was able to conjure up um the whole house helped around 2,000 people every week and by 1920 it's not like this was a chain and they opened up in other locations but the whole house and

their mission inspired other settlement houses. And by 1920, there were 500 across the country. Wow. See, that's incredible. That's incredible. So a lot of the original whole house has since been demolished, but what's left are historical landmarks. The rest of it has joined a college campus. So anyway, so Jane Adams worked here until 1935 when she passed. And that's kind of just the history of Jane Adams in the house, but we're going to time travel to 1913, right in the middle of her time here. One day, Jane is working at the hull house, and she answers the door to three Italian women, and they are demanding incessantly to see the devil baby.

And apparently, they had heard that there is a demon baby that was born here, or that was born and then brought to the hull house because their father had cursed them after mocking the devil. And after mocking the devil, the baby was born a monster. What? Jane was like, nothing like that here. So I don't know where you heard that, but that's, we're good if you could leave. But no matter what she said to them, they were insistent that she was hiding a devil baby from them. Oh, God.

Okay. She, and to this day, really nobody knows where this rumor came from, but someone had just said it. And I will even say so many people were coming in here that needed help in certain ways, there might have been someone which is like physical differences. Right, yeah. And all of a sudden, like, there's a monster that lives here. Or you just hear people who are underserved who are giving birth there and like single, you know, sex workers, whatever. It's like, I'm sure there would be some sort of.

Or, yeah. Yeah. Or with so many immigrants coming in, I'm sure there was some sort of stereotype and someone said something. And then through the grapevine, it became like a, you know, something I don't agree with lives there, whatever. Anyway, we don't know where it really started. And Jane tried to get to the bottom of it. She was like, where the fuck did you hear this?

Because, like, I'm busy. I'm juggling a lot right now. I don't know about your demon baby. I'm doing the Supreme Court in 10 minutes. I'm trying to give you human rights. Can you leave you alone? So she's not sure, but they basically, wherever this group of girls heard it from,

everyone in their neighborhood had heard about it too and oh wow Jane seemingly overnight was inundated with people from all over wanting to see the double baby this was just the first round of people knocking on the door I wonder if her saying like nope nothing to see here got everybody like oh you know maybe those women went and said like she won't let us see the baby

and then everyone got into a fervor yeah it eventually turned into Jane because in her and the goodness of her heart would take anyone in including a devil baby but she must be hiding this baby from everybody buddy and so every time she would double down and say nothing is here they'd be like uh-huh yeah yeah yeah yeah we've heard that before um so at first when i say people from all over one to see this double baby it was people from different blocks then it was people from different neighborhoods than people from

different boroughs or you know whatever the chicago version is then all over the country i mean the rumors spread so fucking fast that within six weeks people were coming in from other states by the bus load. Thousands of people were calling in. The police had to, like, work around traffic issues. People were lining up out front. They were camping out, like, just for a chance to see it through the window, offering to pay her all sorts of money just for a peek at this devil baby. What? It was nuts. And so the story of the devil baby had multiple versions by the time thousands and thousands of people are coming to see it. The main two were, one was from Italian communities and one was from Jewish communities.

And so the Italian version, and of course there were many offshoots of this, but the main Italian version is that there was this pregnant Catholic woman and she married an atheist, of course. Oh, no. So that's problem number one. Apparently, while she was pregnant and they were setting up the house, she put up a portrait of the Virgin Mary in their house and he ripped it off the wall and he said he'd rather see the devil in the house than a picture of the Virgin Mary.

and so by doing that when the baby was born he came as the devil and some stories even went on to say that they tried to baptize the baby and it didn't work one story I particularly enjoyed for the fear factor of it all was that they tried to baptize the baby and when they looked in like the baby when they looked under the cloth to see the baby after it was baptized the baby was missing and then they found him running around on the pews at the back of the church that got me going in the moment I just pictured out like the little hot stuff devil yes that's what I'm thinking that's totally what I'm thinking um the Jewish version again many offshoots is that there was this pregnant mom she already had six girls she already had six girls she was pregnant again with her seventh and the husband was like I would rather have the devil come in here than have another daughter either he's horrible or those daughters were horrible I don't know which version it is yeah yeah yeah could be yeah he's a he was like please please, I cannot stay out that. Please don't give me another daughter. Yikes. The devil's like, don't mind if I do. Yeah.

So then the devil, well, I guess a son was born, but as the devil was the story. Right, okay. In either version, the baby is born with some or all of these features. It's not like a metaphorical devil. It was the devil. So the baby was born with horns, hooves, a pointed tail, pointed ears, oily red skin, leather wings, and apparently could curse in multiple languages. Oh, that's sick.

And in some cases, another favorite of these variations is that I guess when the baby was born, the father was smoking a cigar, which, wow. Classy. And the newborn reaches up, grabs a cigar out of the dad's mouth and starts smoking it himself. I love this baby. It literally does sound like hot stuff. Hot stuff devil, he does. He likes people's cigars for them. Yeah.

And he has red oily skin, I assume. I don't know about oily. The red oily skin is a wild descriptor. Really, that talk about sensory discomfort. like, oily is all you had for me. Red oily skin, no, no. Well, so in both of these main versions,

um, basically he was horrific to look at and they didn't know what to do when they would show him off by the street, people would scream. I don't know why they're showing him off if they're that terrified of him. And he's cussing everyone out and smoking. I mean, that's awesome. But so they didn't know what to do and they were so ashamed of him that they brought him

to the hull house where Jane took him in and knows where where he is and theoretically hid him in the attic from everybody. And so it looked very suspicious, again, that Jane spent weeks denying he existed when every other day there was a new story about this devil baby existing. Uh-huh. And like this woman is literally, I know I already said it, but she's trying to save the nation. She's trying to save the planet. And you're just like, obviously she's in cahoots with the devil.

And it's like, well, what's suspicious? The fact that she hasn't shown us the baby, it's like, oh, okay. that is a losing argument like she's going to show you the baby or she's not let there's no let this be a moral that like you could literally try to save the planet and people will still find a way to literally demonize you do i think especially if you do try yeah there could have like i said earlier there could have been a baby that just had something physical going on that was noticeable to others and people literally demonized him and warp the story and they back in the day it was i guess commonplace that you could be ashamed of a baby and want to just stuff it away in an attic and

never see it again so i guess maybe for the time it was more realistic of a theory um but then you would just say oh well you know one would even know because people would be so ashamed quote of the baby that this story wouldn't have even come out that you gave birth to this baby right i don't know i mean someone might have like a midwife or uh you know what i mean on her lunch break gossiping or somebody who knows like that a family gave a baby away and I don't know I feel like these things would spread 100% anyway Jane and the staff were adamant there was no devil baby she actually even wrote a lengthy but I did read it a lengthy piece for one of the 1916 issues of the Atlantic um and it even still says on the website says by jane adams I'm like oh that's cool

um but so she she wrote in on like her entire experience with it and actually this is like such a woman who is focused on like other people because she could have spent the entire piece saying like it wasn't me it wasn't me there is no devil baby blah blah blah she spent most of the article talking about some of the horrific experiences of the people living in the sentiment housing and all the immigrants and like what they came to the country to find humanizing them yeah yeah and even going so far as a lot of the article was her theorizing why these people so desperately needed to believe in the double baby so it's like a think piece more than any sort of like defense or whatever yeah and she had every right to make it a defense if

she wanted to and instead she went actually i think it was really important culturally for these people to wow believe in this and like i mean humanitarian at the end um this is one quote uh from her it's a long one but it's worth it to me um hopefully to you that this was a her experience when she first started getting corralled or bombarded with people asking to see this thing Jane Adams no amount of denial convinced them

that he was not there. Throughout six weeks as I was at the hull house I would hear a voice at the telephone repeating for the hundredth time that day no there is no such baby and then another one again no we never had that here no he couldn't have seen no you couldn't have seen it for 50 cents we're not taking any money we didn't send it any money. We didn't send it

anywhere because we never had it. I don't mean to say that your sister-in-law lied, but that must be some mistake. There is no point getting an excursion from Milwaukee, for there isn't any devil baby at the whole house. So she's funny, too. Yeah, she's like, I'm not, just stay away. She's edgy. I like her. She then says, although the visitors to the devil baby included people of every degree of prosperity and education, even physicians and trained nurses who assured us of their scientific interest only, the story constantly demonstrated the power of an old wives tale. And the reputed presence of the double baby at Hull House did not reach the newspapers until the fifth of six weeks after thousands of people had already been informed of

his whereabouts by the old method of passing news from mouth to mouth. So, wow. She was like, we didn't even need the paper. The whole country knew about this. It was too late. Yeah. The journalists were behind. Wow. And like I said, she mentions quite a lot in her piece that of the people coming in droves, a lot of them were older women, especially older immigrant women or older poor women. And so she she thinks a lot of it was, they needed to believe in it because it gave them comfort and the powers that be and to remind them that during all of these real struggles they're dealing with as an immigrant where they thought that they were coming here to have a better

life in a lot of ways their lives were not that great just yet. Or maybe never, I don't know, I don't know their situations, but given their daily struggles that they were enduring at the time it was a reminder for them to not feel like they had failed their families or failed their faith by coming here so interesting and it was also a way for them to like focus their anxieties on something external instead of worrying about what was going on right so i thought it was a really good article um also fun fact the devil baby was the inspiration for rosemary's baby oh i was going to ask if there was any connection yeah so um Anyway, after six weeks of this, the story slowly died down, but the lore still makes the

hull house one of the most notoriously spooky places in Chicago. So there's the devil baby, which is like the main reason people would go on like a tour here now if they wanted something spooky. But as for ghosts, it's actually said that Jane and Ellen were warned about ghosts before they even got the house, that it was already haunted. Oh, shit. And when they moved in, there were already tenement orders living there. Yeah.

And they said that they would regularly see things to a point where they would leave water out on the steps at night because they believed that spirits couldn't cross water and they just wanted to sleep. Oh my Lord. So it's active already. Yeah. And Jane didn't know she really believed in ghosts. And she was like, okay, well, that's a silly story. Ended up calling her own room the haunted room at the house. And she's a smart lady we know, you know.

She doesn't take any bullshit. So, wow. Yeah. It was also the room where the wife, the original wife actually died. And so that would make sense by there as it goes there. But Jane would sleep in there. And she would wake up seeing Mrs. Hull watch her while she slept. And sometimes Mrs. Hull would be hovering over her bed. Other times Jane would hear conversations in there when it was empty. So she moved into another room and made that a guest room. Fuck you guests. And love it, love it. Listen, she needs sleep. Okay. She does. She's busy. She's busy. Got a lot to do tomorrow. And the guests had similar situations. So to this day, people in certain rooms feel like they're being watched in there. People hear a woman's voice talking to them, or they'll hear voices downstairs when they're upstairs or vice versa, and they can never find the voice. People hear doors slamming and they hear footsteps upstairs.

People will say that they feel something bumped into them whenone was there or would brush past them. They'll smell Jane's lavender perfume. the staff have seen a woman walking around the house so it's thought to be either jane or mrs hull but mrs hull is definitely a ghost here because one jane also saw other people saw her when they lived there and she was known as the say it with me lady and white because she wore white and she was seen all the time walking around in the kitchen um and people claim that there's also another woman upstairs watching them below in victorian garb people say that that same woman will vanish if you

end up running into her in the halls and you try talking to her she'll just go away which i love that's a great ghost i wish i had that superpower yeah just vanish just like while someone talks to me just whoop never mind um there's a the ghost of a monk that is seen roaming around here um there is a phantom children laughter if you will and not only the the giggling which i i usually don't stand for, but I would take that over the rest of this. Apparently, there are also ghosts of kids running around, um, where you can hear little footsteps and laughter, but also people have seen children running around and often at unusual speed. And they jump and climb on everything and dart around in weird ways. Yeesh. Oh, no. Thank you. There is also a courtyard,

um, that is said to be the portal to all of these spirits, uh, by the way. But in the courtyard there used to be this fountain where people would see kids playing by all the time and there were never any kids. So they became known as the fountain kids, these ghosts. Wow. And I don't know if they're the same ghosts that are moving with crazy speed, but yeah, on top of the fact that there are ghost children around here, on a lot of like display cases, because this is now a museum, a lot of display cases or windows will always have little handprints on them, but with one extra digit which again is like is that the devil or just someone with like extra stuff going on but of course for the story it makes it spooky you know sure okay i was just thinking those six-toed cats at

hummingway house i was like oh that's cool well the attic is where of course the devil baby was allegedly hidden so that's where people claim there's the most activity um here people have uh extreme temperature changes they locked doors up there will unlock and open themselves if you into a room where the door is open, it will lock you in sometimes. People have heard scratching and rustling and scurrying on the other side of the attic door. One tour that was going through heard loud dragging and a crash in the room and when they looked around, a chair had dragged itself out from under a desk and fell over by itself. Imagine being on that tour. Imagine being the tour guy and you're like, I don't know, man. And now I have to open this fucking door.

Anyway, yeah. The basement, apparently is super menacing. People will see very tall, scary-looking shadows approaching them in a scary way. No. People will see glowing eyes.

They'll hear dragging and people have gotten shoved and scratched down there. People have also seen books fly off the bookshelf by themselves. They've heard their name get called out. The security alarms will go off. People will hear rustling in the kitchen,

which I like to think would just be me as a ghost. And the staff will get locked in and out of rooms all the time by doors that should not be locking. and finally of course people claim that they smell sulfur hear a baby crying and see an evil tiny face in the windows as if the double baby is really there and has been all along he's just smoking a cigar just smoking a cigar oh yeah it's not even smoke like hell it's just his cigar yeah cigar smoke yeah okay sorry that was so long but that is the whole house that was good i was creeped out by some of that man and i really i'm sorry i'm like i hope that the double baby there was no even like real version of like a baby who's now just being like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, but I say that to say, I really do just envision hot stuff in my head the whole time. Yes, I know with the little diaper. Like, I mean, talk, it's literally the devil baby. Yeah. You, as soon as you said it, I went, well, that image is stuck there. Yeah,

I was actually wearing that t-shirt earlier. I meant to wear it and then I ended up changing. Have you gotten your tattoo yet? I'm so tired of this. When does it happen? Oh, okay. Now, that's a story for, here's the, the, the, I'll tell you the TLDR. Well, we're, that's going to intermission. Do you want to make that the intermission thing or no? I did really want to send you Mall World, too, though. Okay, okay. Right, right, right. But I'll say it here and then maybe I'll remember to say it next. Say more, or maybe it's not worth saying more. I got scammed. I got fully, yeah, I've been meaning to tell this story for so long, and I just keep forgetting.

I did not see that coming. I got fully scammed. It was quite an elaborate hoax. I went back through all the emails and went, wow, they really got me good. Did you already give them money? Oh, yeah. Oh, Christine. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. it was a lesson I was really humbled and I've been wanting to share it for a while because I'm like as the true crime half of the show like you'd think I'd be and I usually have really good spidey senses about like fishing emails or you know anything like that I feel like I'm pretty literate in that way but anyone anyone can get God God and they really like they knew they were able to look through my Instagram and make it like really personal you know and it was just like real real real fucked up what was what was your last message with them did you ever say like I'm being scammed. Like what I, at one point did. I ended up writing an email like, um, I'm submitting this information to the local police or whatever.

And I submitted a police report, but obviously they just, yeah, respond. I mean, I don't know what I wanted. I didn't want to. Oh, I'm sorry. Did that put a bad taste in your mouth to like not get it now? No, I just have been like, okay, that was a big chunk of money I'd saved up for a tattoo. So I'm going to not just like jump into another, you know. And I was like, I'm just going to.

And to defend you before people reach out at all and are curious, you did give her money or them money or whoever, because there was already a date in mind to, you were supposed to meet up that day. It was like a whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. I finally caught on because, and they were very, like, they would like not ask for money for like weeks and send actual art. Like they were really fucking with me like to a very elaborate degree. It's so unnecessary.

Why? Yeah. Yeah. So what, sorry. Go ahead. No, no, you're good. I just ended up sending them, like it was like a doubt, like a half of the payment. It was like a half of the tattoo deposit type thing.

And it's so weird because like we had a Zoom meeting scheduled. And then I canceled the Zoom because I was like, oh, we're traveling. Like I'm. And so it's like, what would have, would they have canceled the Zoom at the last minute? Would they have ghosted me then? Like I don't know what the, like, it felt so interpersonal that I was like totally blindsided. But I started to get a bad feeling and then I ignored that bad. feeling and now I've gotten a lot more like anytime I feel even an inkling of like huh I'm I'm like

check this first like check this first what was the thing that made you suspicious or when did it when god it was embarrassing way too late oh because they I mean if you go about it's so embarrassing if you go back and listen to that episode please don't but if you do I understand but it's embarrassing because I'm like wow it's the craziest thing the universe aligned you know I mean it's really no they they knew exactly what you would they knew what they were doing yeah no judgment it was pretty pretty uh pretty uh cringe looking back but i they basically ended up sending an email that was like oh my dog is hurt can you send me money and i went what like it was just like okay this is clearly they're on their last trying to just get whatever penny they can out of me and i was

like this immediately i was like oh shit it was like it was like all the kind of spidey senses were suddenly like damn it it all fell in on itself all at once. Yeah. I mean, it was, yeah, it was like a, it was a, it was a couple hundred dollars. And so I was like, this doesn't feel good. And I, I left it. I still want to get the tattoo because I just love it. And I don't have bad feelings about the tattoo or anything. But man, I was like, ooh, I got to be more careful. So, uh, I, anyway, I say all this because I want people to not feel like that, um, that, um, that, I don't know, it can happen to anybody. So be careful. Yeah. No, I, that sucks. But also, it, for some reason, it would,

hurt my feelings twice as much so like they're basically breaking up with me where i'm like wow even they don't want to do this stick anymore i know i'm like honestly they're like let's just obviously be shady immediately then they ghosted me and i was like wow i suck wow they really well they really rubbed the salt in it but i'm sorry it was it was all fine and like honestly i was more like mortified than anything and then i was like whoa okay and i went through the emails and i was like damn i've shown a couple people and they were like i mean honestly it's very convincing like and i talked to my father-in-law who also recently had something happened on etsy where somebody got like scammed him and like he was showing me the text and i was like yeah

like you start to realize the patterns but like in the moment they really take you off guard like they really can disarm you i mean i've been scanned before it happens it happens yeah okay that meant thank you i was like and all people the true crime have shouldn't be getting bamboozled if it makes you feel any better. I got scanned by literally one of those people who was like, oh, your, your card was we have to go, we have to your password into your bank account. And the only reason I knew something shady was going on was because then I heard a dog bark. And I was like, why the fuck would there be a dog at your company? Like that dog was literally trying to like tell me like, girl, get out of here. That dog saved you. Wow. Yeah. So sheesh. It's the whistleblower.

The whistleblower. No, but it happens at some point, I think everyone is going to, you just hope that you get out of the scam fast enough you know yeah just be careful you know if people are asking you for something always always want to say why and also is there a more even safer way to do this exchange because yeah really silly stuff um but yeah so that's what happened sorry i never gave that update i like i've been meaning to since i think it was i found out in august or something it's been a lower maybe maybe later but it was like a couple months ago um but honestly I feel like the timing wasn't right anyway like looking back I'm like I have had new thoughts about it I've been kind of brainstorming so I will eventually get my on hopefully if I don't get

fucking bamboozle all over again I mean I'll hopefully get him tattooed again but it's just and also honestly like of all tattoos the fact that it was that little devil guy and then I got totally hoodwinked I was going to say the irony of it being a devil and something yeah well okay I'm glad I asked but I'm so sorry but no no thank you for reminding me i've been wanting to tell that story for ages um but yeah so just just good stuff uh but yeah anyway sorry i know we probably all have to pee et cetera no we can uh do you want to pee first and then intermission yeah then mall world let's meet in i'll meet you at the holister i'll catch send me your your pen and i'll drop a pen no way because i'm not getting scale i'm not getting bamboozled in mall world okay

I feel like we have a cheat code for gifting this year because story worth is a really good one. You know, I love a gift that's thoughtful, but also like easy and like fits multiple people because we're busy, right? We're trying to do our best. We're trying to make people feel cared for. Storyworth is a really great option. I know we've both gifted this to people in our lives. Yeah, we recommend story memoirs too for your loved ones this holiday season. It might sound a little intimidating, but they'll love it. It's a gift that they won't see coming and something that makes them feel truly special. And it turns out that it's also a gift for. you because now you get the stories from your family and everyone gets to enjoy it.

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That's not a joke. That's not an exaggeration. It's their best deal of the year. And they make it really easy for us to give our expensive bill what I'm like to call the Scrooge treatment. Just kick out to the curb. Yeah, MittMobil's, this is our best deal of the year. It's happening right now. And like Christine said, you can get three, six or 12-month Unlimited Plans for $15 a month.

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Limited time offer, upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for $1,000 for $1,000 for $20 month, $1,000 for $12 month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra, initial plan term only, more than 35 gigabytes may slow when network is busy, capable device required, availability, speed and coverage varies SeamotMobil.com. Okay, well, unfortunately, back to our regularly scheduled programming where we just get bummed to the fuck out. But I'm excited. I got to say, yeah, this, that was quite a tangent we went on there. We talked about, I was really fun. I was really interesting. We looked at some mall world maps, and we talked about our general dream worlds we go to and just kind of some creepy stuff.

Anyway, so now let's get back to, unfortunately, the real world. I'm going to tell you a story. This came across my, came across my desk when I'm a broadcaster. I don't know why I said it like that. This, like, came across my... What? Windshield? What am I saying? I mean, you could just say it came across your desk. It sounds actually really cool. It sounds ridiculous, but sure. Yeah. So it came up. Say it. No. No. It came up as I was researching last week's story about Daniel Robinson. He went missing in the desert and we still don't know what happened to him and we talked about that. And this one came across my desk also while I was researching that because it occurred around the same time. and also got kind of similar criticism for not being handled with enough media exposure as Gabby Petito's case. So a similar time period, a similar type of story also takes place in the desert.

So I'm just going to tell this now while I have it fresh in my mind. This is the story of Lauren, or as she was known by her friends, El Cho. Okay. So L. Cho, Lauren, was born on December 20th, 1990 in South Korea, but grew up in New Jersey as a Korean-American woman. She was described as creative, funny, intensely loyal, just like a really goofy type of, goofy and different type of girl. She graduated from Hunterton Central Regional High School in 2009 and later studied music education at Westminster Choir College. She worked as a music teacher upon graduating, but when the pandemic hit, you know, teaching in general

obviously got a huge hit, but then imagine having to teach music virtually, like, not an easy situation. Tough gig. Yeah. And so she really kind of got hit with that. What felt really? What instrument was she teaching? I think different instruments.

She was in a choir group. I believe she played cello. There were a couple. She was just one of those, like, very musically gifted. people and so she was teaching high school music so I'm assuming that's just all sorts of I mean remember in the pandemic and like people just stopped even caring because like there were so much going on that like caring about classes I mean I wasn't in college but my sister was and I knew people who were in college and it was like they had to scramble to even get students to like pay attention

zoom was barely or show up or like zoom was barely a thing like people were just trying to find anyway and like of course music, you know, the arts, I was where we say, like, is probably one of the first to be axed. And so, like, how are you going to teach a high school music class in 2020 on the internet? Like, that's crazy to even think about. Can I try to top you real quick? Because I don't know if you recall, but we lived in the Roach apartment during COVID with RJ. And he was a swim coach during COVID. And he had to, oh my God, that's right. I knew it reminded me of something. He had to teach swim classes online. On the internet.

Like, you're right, that's even more, that's even, yeah, that's the one thing besides like PE or whatever that, that he would just, I just hear him in there go, good job. Wow. Now that, you're right. Now do this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Use your, good form. Oh my God.

M, you're right. Yeah. That's up there. That is up there. Yeah, he, a lot of people, I, I, he was my only experience. and that was obviously one of the most bizarre. I'm just saying like the only other thing would be like downhill skiing or something where you would require like a mountain or like your Olympic pool.

Like your driver's license. Right. Like I mean, even that you could sort of simulate. But yeah, I mean. I know. I feel so about it. Very good point. Very good point.

Anyone who had to teach anything online. Anything. Even if it was a book class, like just getting kids to sit still and actually pay attention to you when they had all of the luxuries of their bedroom. And figure out how like mute works and I mean, geez. Yeah. yeah exactly uh no supervision whatever cheers clinky to all the teachers out there yes i mean honestly and like you know she had just graduated college she was in her early 20s

like she was just not satisfied with this career path she had to be and her early 20s she probably she just started teaching and this was her first real try at it or she in her early years at least i would be so discouraged it's like disheartening discouraging exactly very discouraging and so in December of 2020, after feeling like really fed up with the whole situation, she quit her job and decided to travel cross country with her friend. And this guy was also her ex-partner, ex-boyfriend, Cody. Cody Orrell. I'm not sure how to pronounce it. Okay. To pursue, they decided they were going to move west to pursue a new life together, not really together as a couple, just like he said, I'll come along with you. They were good friends. And they decided to go

West and pursue her dream of becoming a chef and running a food truck. And so Lauren, yeah, she was a very good chef, very good baker. And so she and Cody traveled in a converted school bus, and they eventually settled in Bombay Beach, California, which is this like artsy desert community. By June 2021, Lauren, oh, do you know something about it? Do you remember the van story? Is that what, is that, I had a feeling. Oh, that's a long story.

That's way too long for this episode right now, but Christine knows an experience of mine. I don't ever want to talk about it again. I mean, Bombay Beach was very cool, but the story I have was not. Okay. So the reason that I thought maybe there was a connection is because the way... I'm sorry for interrupting you so much. No, because this is exactly where I was thinking, because Kendall Ray covered this one on her YouTube channel. and she talked about how like in the 70s this was like a very good touristy spot but then like issues with the lake and issues with stuff happened and it just became like more of like an artsy kind of people settled there when they didn't have anywhere else to go or didn't want to go anywhere else and I was like this is starting to sound familiar yeah it was sorry it was essentially like a palm springs back then yes yes and it was a very beautiful area now so the near bombay beaches the Salton Sea yes um

which was so salty, it's literally dried up. Oh, that's what it is. Okay. So a lot of people will do like music videos and stuff out there because it looks like a desert, but it was once an ocean. Okay. Okay. And now there are a lot of artsy things.

And a lot of the community out there, they are just living out there. And they spend most of their time making art with whatever they can find in town. This isn't everybody, but it is a major hole for people because if you want to go see something interesting or you know different than living in the city um there are really cool stuff like there's one area that looks like a drive in theater and it someone clearly just pushed a bunch of the old abandoned cars all facing one direction with a big white screen like it's like so cool yeah it's very creepy art and the creepy element is because it is pretty isolated during the day so you're pretty aesthetic of it too feels very creepy yeah it's very ghost towny and so dried up lake it feels like

you're alone surrounded by like very big art installments and you're like what the fuck is going on um like almost abandoned like an abandoned movie theater like that's very creepy i mean even one of the cooler things is the the lake that's now dried up you'll literally just find like fish skeletons like evidence that there was an ocean there it's super weird that just gave me chills yeah that's that's unsettling and it actually is incredibly good context because essentially she moved out there and when i was saying earlier like she was known as just being very like creative and different. I say that because, for example, like, she worked for a while as a tattoo and piercing apprentice after college and had, like, I mean, she was beautiful, but, like, had really

specific, like, piercings and things that, like, you know, you can tell looking at somebody in their 20s, like, oh, wow, they have, like, a different style, right? Like, she has tattoos and piercings and not everybody conforms to that kind of look, right? And so she moved out there with this guy, and when they got to this area, she really felt like she fit, and she did. She had some really good friends there. She actually worked as the chef, the private chef, at an Airbnb that was owned by this Italian actor. And it wasn't an Airbnb. It was called an Airbnb, or some sort of Airbnb complex. It was like all these multiple houses. Apparently, it was known for having very liberal policies about clothing and drugs, right? So it's some sort of like, not drugs, like hard

drugs really but like just very like hippie commune yes exactly and so like people clothing optional you know just very laid back very artsy and so that is the context that this story is around because she moved there from new jersey right as a teacher and moved here to pursue her dream of opening her school bus up as a restaurant like so wow you know that's like very very unique path but she ended up there and so that's i'm glad you brought that up because that is very very good context. I really was trying to keep it together. I think you noticed me like wins or something. I was like you have something to say and you can you tell the class? You want to share with the class? No. Not not. I mean, well maybe I do. I do. But it would obviously, you know the story. It would take

way too long. Yeah. That needs its own like chapter of your memoir. That could be an intermission if we ever needed or something. Very good point. Yeah. Very good point. So they settled for a time in Bombay Beach, this artsy desert community on the Salton Sea. And by June 2021, she was working as a private chef at this Airbnb-type property called the whole, W-H-O-L-E, the whole. That sounds a lot scarier. The whole. And it was located between Morango Valley and Yucca Valley, California, near Joshua Tree. So a little bit of context before her disappearance. Friends and her ex-boyfriend, Cody later told reporters that Lauren had moved West seeking freedom and a fresh start and that she was working on recipes and private dinners as part of her ambitions to become a chef.

According to friends, Lauren had recently been experiencing some emotional stress and mental distress, although they said like not to the point that we think she would have been in crisis and wandered off, but you know, you never know. I can imagine that many people in general, let alone in their like early 20s trying to like start fresh. we're not somehow mentally distressed during 2020, right? Like, that's a fair. It's a fair to assume a lot of us were struggling, right? And so there's never been like a formal diagnosis,

but that's just something to note that her friends did say she was feeling like stressed and distressed occasionally before her disappearance. So in the days leading up to the disappearance, which was June 28th, 2021, She had been staying at the Ben Mar Trail property with Cody and other friends, and they had their school bus there. She and Cody were living on this school bus. It was pretty big. And basically they said, like, even though we were exes, that was in high school.

And like, we were just close friends. And it was nothing weird about it, you know. So fast forward to June 28, 2021, the day of the disappearance. Lauren was at the property in the 8,600 block of Ben, trail near Yucca Valley where she lived and worked. Friends later told authorities and media that Lauren had become upset that afternoon. She and her friends and Cody were having a few drinks. It was a hot day. They had a couple beers. And when she and Cody had kind of an offside chat, offline chat, they started to argue about something. And it seems very minor, but she got annoyed.

And she apparently wanted to get in the car and drive somewhere. And he told her, you can't drive. you've had a few drinks. And she got really frustrated and walked away. And this is out in Bombay Beach. Yes. Okay. Yeah, in that area, yeah. At approximately 3 p.m., Lauren reportedly walked away from the residents on foot,

heading toward the surrounding hills and desert area near Hoopa Road and Benmar Trail. She left behind her personal belongings, including her cell phone, her bag, and other items she typically carried with her. And her friends were like, oh, she just needs to blow off some steam. You know, she's mad that, like, Cody wouldn't let her drive after she had a few drinks. She just walked away to, like, huff and puff, whatever. Yeah, take a lap. Yep. But 10 minutes in, Cody started to feel a little off and said, we should go after and look for her.

Hmm. She had left behind her personal belongings, including her cell phone, so they couldn't even call her to find her. Her bag, other items she typically carried with her, especially if she were leaving the property. Friends noted she also left behind her. her pet parrot lit. Stop it. This was a small bird she was reportedly very attached to, did not like to leave behind. Even for a few hours, she would start to get anxious if she left him behind.

And when she left, she was last seen wearing a yellow t-shirt, jean shorts, and Doc Martin-style boots. Okay. Her ex-boyfriend, Cody, he is described as being the last person to have seen her when she disappeared. He and friends began to search the immediate area and his. hills around the property about 10 minutes after she walked away they started looking but the more they looked the more concern they got because they could not find any trace of her after roughly three hours when she did not come back right they're like looking and looking hoping she'll just turn up and say what are you guys doing you know she just doesn't seem to be coming back three

hours later cody contacts the san bernadino county sheriff's department morongo basin station to report her missing and that is 5.13 p.m. So the initial law enforcement response occurred quickly. The San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department opened a missing person investigation. And again, like we're in that dangerous part of the world where you don't necessarily realize how quickly your body falls apart if you don't have water, if you don't have communication to the outside world, you know, you don't have your phone, you don't have shelter. I don't know the geography very well. I don't know how big Bombay Beach is. I only know the area by the Salton Sea because we went to go see all the party stuff.

But it was definitely a place where like you don't, you're not out by yourself at night. Like for safety reasons. For safety reasons. Yeah. Yeah. Like it, not that it was particularly dangerous, but it was so isolated and it was so you, I mean, you just don't know who's out there. It, it feels creepy during the day. So like going out of night, would just kind of feel silly. Well, and like liberal, open, progressive places like this, draw also people who don't have good intentions, right? Sure.

Not everybody who's there is going to be like a peace and love, you know? I mean, there's, and if they can find vulnerable people. Yeah, so you're right. There's like that fear base of like, and the fact that they're not finding any trace of her is alarming. Because also the Doc Martin shoes, like you'd think the police came out and said, we can't even find her shoe prints out here so like either she hopped in a car you know got picked up something like that but yeah it's it's like alarming because you'd expect in 10 minutes that she's

just kind of in the area right like right right it adds to the creep factor for sure so it's like she like right away was maybe taken off something like a very something very quickly happened i mean it's one of those cases where you hear like 10 minutes yeah anything can happen like that anything can happen. So they open this missing person investigation. Early searches involve deputies, search and rescue volunteers. I believe they had like nine dogs searching for her. They combed the desert with volunteers and rugged terrain near the Benmar Trail property. They had these ground teams with canines that were deployed at least when aircraft was used to search from the air. And authorities described the search area as rugged terrain of the open desert of Yucca Valley with challenging conditions

high heat and limited shade. Missing person flyers with Lauren's description and a photo were posted throughout Yucca Valley and Morongo Valley. The word got out pretty quickly, locally. But for several months, it couldn't really get beyond that. It remained largely regional, covered by local news outlets, such as a high desert star, ABC affiliates, regional online news. It just wasn't blowing up to be a nationwide story.

So in September 2021, law enforcement. publicly announced that the specialized investigations division, which includes a homicide detail, had joined the search due to the length of her disappearance and the fact that they just had no leads. One of the alarming elements, like I said earlier, was the lack of the footprints. And that led them to believe, like, maybe she didn't wander for hours and hours because we probably would have seen some tracks somewhere, which obviously indicates that it could be foul play, or maybe she was injured far earlier than they thought or far closer.

But then why aren't they finding any trace of her? Just very confusing. Friends and family created online pages and a website to share information about Lauren using her nickname L, describing her as a talented musician, Baker, hilarious, and loyal friend. Some coverage compared the lower national attention to Lauren's disappearance with the intense national focus on Gabby Petito, which is something I brought up with the Daniel Robinson case because they did occur around the same time. And both of the two cases I've just mentioned were people of color, whereas, you know, Gabby Petito.

I will say, of course, that that case had its own kind of sick fascination because there were so much video footage and she was a vlogger. I mean, it really lends itself to like a nationwide story. But I think the argument is always like, it's not that people want less coverage for a story like Gabby Petito. It's that, you know, I wish we had that same amount of coverage for everyone. For everyone, for all the people missing, yeah. And so I just say that to say that's how they both came across my desk recently is kind of looking in that shadow of the Gabby Petito case. So, which I have not covered yet, and I will at some point because it is really dark. Gabby Petito, you haven't covered that?

I always, I always mixed up with brineless pieces. Oh, no, Gabby Petito, she's like the van life influencer. or yeah no i just mixed up there i don't know why but they both were they seemed the same level of heightened to me interesting yeah i feel like um gabrie tito is something i need to cover at some point because i don't know enough about it yet um anyway so essentially that raised a lot of broader questions about disparities and media attention um especially regarding people of color and women of color and as for the ongoing search which went into fall of 2021 throughout july august and september search teams conducted additional operations in the desert around yucca valley and morongo valley

but did not locate any sign of lauren or any of her belongings like any clothes any shoelace nothing it's like she was just airlifted yes like the vanished which is it's like it sounds so crazy but then it's like well it's also this huge expanse of wilderness you know so it's like you want to be like, oh, it must be foul play, but also it could very well just be like the elements, you know? Yeah, it could be. I mean, yeah. Yeah, no way to know. Friends reported traveling extensively around the region. They would post flyers at gas stations, any businesses they came across, both in the low desert and high desert. They went all the way to San Diego to search for her because the previous week, I guess she had mentioned wanting to go to the beach and they thought maybe

that's where she was headed. Nothing. Sheriff's officials stated publicly that they were following all leads and continuing to coordinate with family and friends, but nothing they did seemed to break this case open until October 9th, 2021. And that is when they discovered human remains during a search in the open desert of Yucca Valley investigators located unidentified human remains in the rugged terrain. They were found in an area of Yucca Valley Desert not far from where the earlier searches had been concentrated, although we don't know, they have not publicly listed the coordinates. So we don't know the exact location, but the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department announced

that the remains had been found during operations related to the search for Lauren, but that identification would take some time. So at first, it's that kind of horrible waiting period that I imagine people go through of like I want an answer, but yeah, exactly. So October 28, 2021, the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department announced that the remains recovered on October 9th had indeed been positively identified as those of Lauren Cho. The coroner division confirmed the identification and stated that the cause and manner of death were pending toxicology results and that no additional details would be released at this time. Law enforcement also stated that they had no reason to believe foul play was involved, although. they did not definitively rule it out depending on what further analysis would show.

So that's kind of where it stops. And that was in 2021. And I started researching like reasons why toxicology results wouldn't be publicly, wouldn't be made public. And I guess there are a variety of reasons, including like if they don't think it was foul play, they don't really have a reason to post it publicly or if the family doesn't feel like they want to share that, then. Yeah, maybe they don't. Right. And if it's not, and that would only, I guess, make sense if it were not foul play because otherwise they would need to use that for some sort of a trial. But yeah, it's just unclear. We just don't really know, except we can assume that they've said they don't believe foul play was involved. And the family has essentially made a statement saying, you know, how deep their grief was,

thanking the people who helped search for her, shared information, supported them. Her sister wrote that they were the luckiest to have had 30 years with Lauren and described the depths of collective sorrow that the family felt once they found out that she had indeed passed. She's remembered as just a really cool sister and friend, just a really beautiful soul. And as of October 2021, there really hasn't been much of an update. Cause and manner of death were pending toxicology.

at the time and no further details would be released unless like they needed to for some reason. So yeah, we don't really know there have been no arrests or suspects in connection with Lauren's death. As for Cody, he was never considered person of interest because he was with that big group and she walked away after an argument and he went with them to go look and there was just no way, you know. So yeah, it's just, it's just really sad and too bad. And it's been cited the story in conversations about media inequality and coverage of missing persons cases, especially involving women of color. Advocacy has focused on the element of like she's more than just like a conspiracy or people, you know, I mean, it's hard to read even like, even as someone who doesn't know these people to see people saying like, oh, she just like went off and killed herself, whatever, people just like spout nonsense on the internet as if, you know, they're contributing anything. thing and it's just really hurtful. The family has said like it's really hurtful to hear stuff

like that. And so, you know, there's not really much more to go on at this point, but the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department does encourage anyone with additional info about Lauren's activities or state of mind on that day to contact their tip lines. Although the case is largely treated as resolved regarding her remains. So yeah, that's the story. And it's just like you don't hear about these things i haven't heard about the story before and it's like four years later you know yeah it's just sad and it's it's one of those cases where you just hope that they held on to the right what whatever evidence future technology will be able to to come up with yeah or the you just got to hope that there's better answers in the future

well maybe they have answers and the family's just like that's the you know maybe they know she died of natural causes and they've just chosen to leave it at that you know yeah great point unclear but um yeah just really sad either way wow um hmm i got a hanker in for an auntie ann's pretzel it's all this talk of mall world i'm like let me get back into mall world real quick avoid the real world and it's problems i was gonna say do you need the van story to like bring some levity but well i still want to hold off on that because that's it's oh yeah yeah yeah yeah true crime in some ways. And I don't find that levity whatsoever. I was, I was ready to, like, hella, hella rescue both of you. It was, uh, yeah, let's just, it was harrowing from a third party

perspective, let alone a first person. Yeah. Oh my God. It was, uh, it was a dozy of a day. Um, okay, Annie Ants. I don't, you don't strike me as an Annie N's Mall person. Um, I love the smell. I'm more of like, give me a big cookie. Hmm. My hometown mall used to have a Wendy's in it, and that was my go-to Wendy's. Interesting. And they had a, They had a pizza place that really rocked my shit. And to this day, I can't remember the name or I'd look them up. Oh, a sabarro. It was not a sabarro.

No. Oh, man. Well, anyway. Anyway. Speaking of which, I guess I'm going to go eat a pizza now. I am very hungry, so I'm going to go eat them. Well, thanks for listening. Thank you, everybody.

No, I'm sorry. I feel like this was just like Interruption Central today. I'm so sorry. No, we needed to get a lot out of our systems. It's fine. I hadn't seen you in a little bit. I know. There's a lot to discuss.

Aye, aye, yie. Yes, thank you everybody. Go check out Patreon. If you would like more of this, go check out our YouTube, go check out our social medias, read our books. The end. We're everywhere and you can't escape us, so you're welcome for that. And that's why we drink.