And That's Why We Drink - E463 The Santa Dilemma and Our Haunted One-Man Show

Episode Date: December 21, 2025

Welcome to episode 463 where we’re open to any and all suggestions regarding how to handle the trust issues surrounding Santa! Then we distract ourselves from holiday stressors with Em’s haunted tale of the Dumas Brothel in Butte Montana. Christine covers the absolutely wild case of Erin Patterson and the Mushroom Murders. And please tell us if you can hear the cursed door slamming in the background of Christine’s audio… and that’s why we drink! Check out the extremely creepy video Em showed Christine during the episode here! Find your scent soulmate today and get up to 60% off at http://MicroPerfumes.com/DRINK The best way to cook just got better. Go to http://HelloFresh.com/DRINK10FM now to Get 10 Free Meals + a Free breakfast for Life! Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month’s subscription plus free shipping when you go to http://nutrafol.com and use promo code DRINK. Exclusive $35 off Carver Mat at https://on.auraframes.com/ATWWD  Promo Code ATWWD Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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ah sa foi sa foi sa foe sa foe sa foe sa foe sa foe sa foe fucking sa voa fucking incredible oh just so annoying wow

anyway Merry Christmas Merry Christmas everyone Please stand by We have to step the way and go get wine Answer the door oh christine oh christine for the tape my captain my captain my christine my christine oh um how you doing listen i am does that answer your question yeah um out of ten how are you feeling no i'm good i'm like a

six or seven it's so weather's gloomy i'm just like me you know it's like cold i don't know i'm okay i'm okay how are you doing though um i would love to trade weather with you um you can have it i wish i wish we could do that um i how am i doing i'm all right um i am truly running on steam here i got barely any sleep um i got beyond invested in these notes um and i and of course it's always this fucking way. I should, I should know by now, almost 500 fucking episodes in that. Especially because last night I said, hey, tomorrow there might be a snow day. So I want to warn you in advance that it's like, we might not be able to record because blazes out of town. And if I have a snow day, I'm stuck with the old all day. I shouldn't say stuck with. But you know what I mean?

Like, stuck with a four-year-old all day. Don't worry. And I said, so I'm not sure. And then I fell asleep before I saw your text that was like, oh, do you want to make the call now? And I was like, oops. So you didn't even know whether we were recording to like an hour before recording. The mystery is what keeps the dog. But you really. admitted to the notes man i was i'm impressed okay well i was trying to think of something this is what i was meeting by like it always happens this way is and i'm always trying to shoot for like i'm just going to do a small a short episode this time so like let me just do like a quick round of notes that's how it's that's how it begins and then it's always the longest fucking set of notes i can find

and what's interesting is that this is a good sign this is how you know it's going to be a good story is that like i didn't even care if we were recording or not i just got rabbit hold into Yeah, I love when that happens, yeah. But I really, there is way too much content, especially on YouTube, that I was, good luck to me. It was never going to happen being able to see every single thing that's ever happened. And nobody wants to hear me report on every second either. I beg to differ.

I promise you, there are those people out there. Well, I'm going to make people medium happy today because it's, it is a lengthy one, but it's all good. And actually, I have YouTube to think because all of the sources. were like, had nothing to do with ghosts. It was all history base and only YouTube gave me what I actually wanted, which was the real meat. So anyway, I'm happy about that, but I am extremely tired. So I am looking forward to my nap after this.

And thank you for asking, the reason I drink, I don't know if you actually ask that or not yet. I'm asking mentally in my head. So, yeah. Big news, everybody. We found one of Hankies brothers. And we have a play date tomorrow. How did I know that's what you were going to say? You said big news and I went, oh, my God, Hank has family.

Well, because I'm certainly not the one that's going to be like, oh, you know, some other big miles. So it's always going to be the dog. I guess it probably has to do with Hank. Wow, wait. So, sorry, say again. So you found Hank's brother. And what did you say you're going to meet him? Yeah, he has a play date tomorrow with his.

Well, we think it's his brother. I guess genetically there, it could be his grandfather, his uncle or a sibling. Oh my God. Hank found his grandfather. Which, like, by the way, this dog does look a little older. it could be his grandfather i mean maybe yeah i love when they're like oh his half brother or cousin or i'm like wow this is quite a family tree that dogs have yeah it is like an immediate family member um oh my god i've never found one for geo like that was that close of a match that's awesome well Hank um has

some breeding uh like breeders breeder breeding and his past and so he has about 50,000 siblings oh shit um but they he only has two who are local and one of them will not get back to me so if your name happens to be dash and you have a Bernie's mountain dog named Oakley is fucking messes me back i love that i thought dash was the dog okay i honestly don't know which one is which but i'm pretty sure they're both applicable yeah if your name's oakley do you have a Bernie's mountain dog named dash i mean odds are could be the same yeah and if either of you are related to my dog the two of you should meet up um yeah clearly but so this one Oh my God, of course I need to know his name for this exact moment.

Please hold. His name is Herbie, the dog, the dog, not the person. And I message them. Herbie and Hank? I mean, come on. So Oakley slash Dash, I don't know which one it is. That is like his little brother. Okay.

I actually don't know. On the website it says that Oakley slash dash is his like actual half sibling but then it says that Herbie is his grandfather or uncle or sibling and we're not sure but Oakley slash dash and Herbie are full blood siblings oh so then it would probably be a sibling yeah right it feels like we're there's a title there that is important I just feels like one of the gate program tests like if herbie and his brother are related our siblings and then they make you drink a weird pink drink and yeah they're like just now lay down on the ground.

Anyway, I'm very excited. I'm not totally loving the idea of like having to socialize with a stranger alone for like maybe one to two hours. Where are you meeting? Oh, at park. Okay. And a park, but also like an hour away because he lives, he lives like an hour and a half or two hours away. And so I tried to find a spot in the middle. So it's like a 45 minute commute.

So do you think they'll know that really is the dumbest question? No, I'm wondering too. That's half the reason I'm going. So I'm like, will they care? I'm fascinated. Or no. Yeah. Anyway, that's why I drink

Because I'm trying to reunite my baby with his family. Oh my gosh, this is quite a situation. You should TikTok this so I can watch it. Thank you. The other fun fact is he does have a sibling in Norway. Would you like to know what that sibling's name is? Finn. I have no idea.

The King of Hell. Hello. What? Are you serious? Brothers names, yeah. What if that was the owner's name and you got him mixed up? No, I guess in Norway there's a place called Hell. that's right there is yeah yeah yeah they named their dog the king of hell well in austria there's a place

called fucking so at least it's not the king of fucking that could be really bad that'd be if he was a real hump master i suppose so it'd be crazy anyway why do you drink christine well this is kind of like a uh a doozy that i feel like people will have thoughts on or chime in on but i'm feeling really conflicted about how to talk to leona about six okay sorry alert alert if there are children in the vicinity who have some holiday magic. Just change the episode, please, right now or pause it. Okay. That was your chance. I'm conflicted about how to talk about Santa with Leona because I'm like, I just feel so weird lying. And I didn't think it would be this like hard, but I'm just really struggling because I don't feel good about it. I don't know. I'm trying to find a middle

ground and I feel like I don't I think it must be like a personal thing. Like I must like I love the concept of Santa and Christmas and like I want that magic to be real. But I think I was so taken aback when I realized my parents had been lying to me for years and like they weren't especially conscientious of like how they handled it when I found out and I felt very like misled and confused and like I really struggled with it. And so I think I'm really like trying to find a way to do it in the least damaging way possible. But I also don't want to be like, you know, immediately I'm going to ruin Christmas. You know what I mean? So I'm, I'm struggling. I don't know. What has what have you discussed with daddy-o? Well,

we're just kind of on the I'm just trying not to push it too much like we're just like oh yeah Santa will bring presents and you can write a letter like we've been are you like gonna like all the usual have her go meet Santa or like what if a stranger's like oh is Santa gonna be gonna be good for Santa?

And she's like yeah Santa already knows all the things like and she's very I don't know very I think hmm yeah she's very in the Santa zone already I just worry that if she'd ever ask me any questions about it that I'm going to be like, I don't know what to say.

Figure it out quickly based on your anxiety. I know. I just feel shady. And this is something I do not bring to the table unless I'm out of earshot. But I don't know. I mean, what is your take on it? Because I also don't want to not do Santa. Like, I don't want to do that.

I don't feel comfortable not doing that. And I think it's way more fun to have Santa. I love the idea. I loved having Santa around growing up, you know, as a legend and stuff. but I don't know. I mean, you're coming to the person who is the least equipped with children. I don't know. You just found your son's grandfather or something.

My father-in-law? Yeah, yeah. Something like that. No, I don't know. We also like, I think probably reacted to things differently as a kid. Like when I found out about Santa. Yeah, what happened? Well, my art teacher told everybody.

What is wrong with people? Teachers of all people should not be the ones. be spoiling that. I did think that was fucked up, but also I think she thought it was okay because we were like 11, like by that point, like, I think enough kids knew, but my mom just never confirmed nor denied it for me. I think she wanted me to believe in the spirit of things. And it was like, I wanted my mom to play along a little longer. And she was like, no, obviously it's not real. And I was like, oh, okay, I thought maybe you'd like comfort me a little bit, but like, no. No, my art teacher was a real jerk. She literally just, she had some point to make about Santa not

being real and then she caught herself and I remember her hesitating and then going we all know Santa's not real right and that oh we don't want that that's really bad that confirms things I mean I was already suspicious I my mom has always said that by the time I was like six I was already asking some like critical thinking questions right because it's like things start to to be more apparent yeah or like handwriting and or like I I think for me I was able to grasp that like my parents were trying to do a like a magical thing like I was never well that's what I wanted I was like at least can we play along and my mom's like no all right it's over and then she's like but don't tell any don't tell your brother or any of your neighbors so for like years I just had to pretend with them and

it was really I was like that's evil because just me everyone else got to have the magic I know and my brother it took him a few more years and I was like I just hmm it sucked and then she gave my bike and I had to pretend Santa got it for them and it was my bike anyway there's clearly a lot wrapped up with this for me emotionally. And also the girl who told me is that girl I mentioned like a few months ago, I think, who like was said she was just pretending to be my friend all year and then like, you had a bad year that day. It was a bad year. I was eight years old and she was like, she's like, only idiots believe in Santa. And. Okay, Christine, I think we need to look within. This is obvious. I think there are other contributing factors here so why you had such a problem with Santa.

I think people just were bullying the shit out of you that year. I mean, yeah. I mean, yeah, that doesn't help, right? And then I went to my mom and she's like, duh. And I was like, okay, can nobody just pretend for a minute? I think nobody just let you have a whimsical moment to save your life. And I think I think that plays into it. No wimsy.

Yeah. And I, like, I want, but I, here's what I struggle with. Like, I'm fine. Like, it's been fine just being like, oh, Santa comes and drops off your gifts. And, like, that's totally fine. I think the part I struggle with is like, last year, Blaze did, like, foot you know, with like some flour. Well, Gio licked most of them up.

But like, flowers and flour and like, the cookies and all that. Yeah. And I'm like, it's cute. But then I'm like, is that like alarming? I don't know. Is that like too far of a lie? I don't know. You are not wrong.

I get what you're saying. And honestly, we all know that I only don't know answers with confidence because I don't have to do them. The second I had kids, I'd be like, what the fuck do I do? What do you do? I know. I don't know. I don't think four-year-olds are aware of the cruise.

creep factor that is Santa. I think people had to like tell me line by line exactly how creepy was eventually. Yeah, I mean, it does sort of take a few decades to realize, yeah. I think if she, if I had to babysit and all of a sudden I'm getting questions about Santa, I would, and you couldn't make it on the phone for some reason. I'm just going to make a decision. You're calling the police, like, 911. I mean, I think I would like dip my toe until, I would like slowly test the waters on like how she's responsible. responding to the magic.

And if at some point she went, that feels a little creepy, I'd go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's fucked up. Or he's actually not real. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't even talk to him. Yeah, yeah. No, I know a lot of people say, like, even try to, like, half truth it. And they're like, oh, he's all, the magic of him is real.

And that's hard. I feel like that's even harder to explain because now you're turning into, like, some philosophical concepts versus like, as you've been lying to me all these years. And it's like, yeah, technically. And so it's like, is it okay to lie? No. but in this case it is and I just I know I'm like over analyzing it and overthinking it and we keep it really chill for the most part and it's not even been an issue yet but she's just very quick and so it like

I'm like any day now she's going to be like but hang on why does this paper why is this wrapping paper up in your office you know like that was that was how my mom knew that I was on it's so hard to like hide things like that because she was like I said something like mommy you're wrapping paper is the exact same or Santa's wrapping paper is the exact same what at Target, like something like that. Yeah, it's the same discount when we bought at Costco last week, yeah. Yeah, and my mom was like, oh, Santa has great taste. Or like, something like that. But

I mean, I could see like you letting her just have nothing but whimsy and then when she starts asking questions, like then just go straight to the honesty. Yeah. Or to be like just like the posts I've read about it, which I'm so thankful now for for creators and people online who like share stuff about this, like

psychiatrists and psychologists and child psychologists and just people who are like here is like here are some appropriate things to say depending on the age here is like an appropriate response and so that's been really helpful and I don't want to like throw my mom totally under the bus like she didn't know what to do you know no parent does no right no parent does and so but I've been reading a few things and I think the like best approach I've landed on is like yeah when they ask questions just kind of suss out how ready they are for the answer like when I asked that question I really wanted my mom to just be like of course seen as real just like and I

I would have been like, few, let me have another one year, more year or something out of this, you know. I think I would, sorry, go ahead. I was just going to say, I think that's what I'll do. It's just like, like, approach cautiously with whatever she brings and then, like, go from there. Yeah. So far, what I've seen you do with her is a lot of, like, letting her lead the imagination train of, like, if she were to be like, oh, do you think there's other reindeer out there? you've done a lot of like well what do you think yeah yeah that feels like the right yeah you're not really saying yes or no or whatever she's just kind of making up her own story and then she's like actually

I do know exactly the truth and I'm like okay and she's like there's 16 reindeer and five of them I don't know that she comes up with do you live in terror that she might come home from school and say this person says Santa isn't real now like you're like in front of it she's in such like a sweet little gentle preschool I'm like there's no way these I mean not no way but I think in a few years maybe but I think now there's not really it would only be her recognizing like little inconsistencies which is you know I mean what it is what it is but um I think I hated just being also tasked with like now don't tell four of your closest friends and sibling for the next like five six years and I was like what yeah yeah that feels like not my job but okay I wonder no that's I mean again just the

the context of what you went through in the exact same era of discovering the truth about Santa it sounds like maybe that's also at play but I don't know yeah I yeah sounds like it was a rocky road for you for a second yeah that girl was not nice you know no she sounds like a real real bitch she was a real real bitch tell you what for an eight year old especially like damn girl oh well because I was just pretending to be your friend what who says that you know I had someone um I won't say when but they referred to people as acquaintances based on location and they would like oh I'm only friends with you because we live in the same area oh okay and would call them a balls acquaintance

based on location what and like thought it was like a very like normal thing to say i wonder if they thought it was like a joke and i just wasn't picking up on that but they seemed pretty serious about it and now in hindsight this was years and years and years ago before i knew about like neurodivergence or anything i'm wondering if that was just like a very literal definition of yeah what our relationship and they're like oh i just made um an acronym to make it easier to remember yeah in the moment though i was like what a fucking mean thing to say seriously but in hindsight i'm kind of picking up some stuff and i was like i wonder if they just yeah that was just their way of like putting things in categories of like oh this is a friend from childhood this is a friend and a ball this is like

an abomination anyway i yeah i i think that's funnier actually um but no i i i don't know why i said that i feel like there was a reason because some people are just like kind of cruel and you're like wait what yes i i was trying to try to join in on like yeah i've had friends who've also said things that were just was her name olivia can you imagine she's just still up to her old bullshit it's like she terrorized you too oh my god she and i had a ghost club that sounds great oh i know it was until she said i never believed any of that i just was pretending to be her friend and i was like cool cool but at least she and i mean not at least it sounds um wildly manipulated that she knew exactly the way to sucker you into playing friends.

Like, not even being friends, was just playing the game of friends. And it's because she for sure was in on it too. She's so full of shit. Like, we were both like so invested. And then these other girls were like, what's wrong with you guys? And she was like, yeah, Christine, you lose her.

And I was like, what the hell? Yeah, that really sucked. But oh, she was the one I wrote the note to, the fake love letter. So it's all starting to piece together a little bit. Interesting. Interesting. Yeah, I would love a memoir.

You let me know. Anyway, yeah, somebody else has to write this because I'm not going to remember shit. Well, no, thank you for feeling safe to bring the Santa's situation. I'm guarantee you're not the only person involved in this podcast. Yeah, I've seen people posting about it and stuff. So I'm like, I wanted to, yeah, open it up if anyone had thoughts or any creative angles or anything. I'll take the advice because if I ever become a parent, I certainly won't know what to do. Well, you don't, you want to be careful with Hank.

He's a smart one, too, you know. He is, he knows up, I'm up to my wily ways. Yeah. And he's like, what's a brother? What do you mean I'm going to see him tomorrow? What's a grandpa? What's a grandpa? What's a grandpa?

Well, I wish you well on your parenting journey because that sounds like a, I could see why that would feel like something that you could like accidentally like fuck her up for a life. Like mess up the trust or something, you know. But I know it's also years, hopefully years down the line that it even comes up. but yeah I don't know I'm also I'm not the best candidate because it didn't I knew I was being bamboozled and I was fine with it that's what I want that's what I'm hoping like I'm hoping that it's all becomes like oh this is just part of my family's like tradition and you know it's not like a personal like clearly it was personal for me but I think as long as it's not like oh my mom

was just lying to my face like I think the slow burn realization for on my end was like I was aware that she was trying to do something like there was good intention behind yeah yeah so Yeah, I sort of got pushed into the deep end and was like, what? You sure did, yeah. Oh, my gosh. What's on your shirt? Oh, I would. I think it says Eeyore.

Oh, explore. It's a dinosaur. Is that from Red Rocks? Yeah. Oh, cool. Okay, cool. Yeah, it was when I went to Denver with Allison a few months ago. Oh, nice.

But I guess next to the Red Rocks, there's a different rock called Dinosaur Rock. Oh, that's fun. And I really wanted to get a shirt while we were there because, we were there for anniversary and we had been to the Red Rocks together in the past but more of an excursion with her family who this was right when I was

discovering like my like pot situation where like I was not I was feeling I was gonna pass out all the time I was like rocking a cane for a second fun fact it has pretty much almost gone away except for when I'm waking up so in case anyone's wondering my cardiologist said it was

probably like a symptom of long COVID and it seems to be going away. Wow. So, yay. But of course, it's after I ordered like a custom cane on Etsy. And you know, there will be used for that and we all know it. I don't know. Anyway, where were we? Oh,

so we went, her parents wanted to like walk up and down these incredibly long stairs when I'm already on an elevation and I'm having a breathing problem. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like maybe next time we come, it'll be a little better for me. And so

we happened to go and there was like they were playing legally blonde there so I wanted to go to the merch line but there was literally thousands of people there and I was like I'm not doing it so I bought this online oh that's cute yeah I like that anyway sorry for the you didn't ask I just kind of kept going there I did I said what's on your shirt Eeyore and you said no you said what's on my shirt and I should just go on a dinosaur and then fucking cut it no that's not enough you know that's not enough oh well since you just can't get enough in my voice Christine I have a very good story for you that I'm personally excited about i don't know what i can tell um did we have to are there any updates

anything we have to say um probably what day does this come out i'm just curious before christmas i think the week before christmas oh very almost christmas no this one's for next sunday the 21st so the beginning of christmas week yeah christmas week dare you or is this not the Christmas episode. Christmas time is here. I even promised everyone in the makeup. Oh, no, I can't believe I forgot. Okay, I'll do it again.

Because next week, it'll be too late. Oh, fuck. Okay. Would you like to do it now here and we'll splice it to the front of the episode? Great idea. Okay. I'm all yours. Okay.

Okay, M and their Hollister perfume or cologne or whatever nonsense. I knew we were going there. I'm sorry. I met Hank's, actually, because it is Hank's signature scent. It is hard to pick, like, a signature scent. And then when you do, it's, like, it's so expensive. So you really have to commit. This has been solved by micro perfumes.

It's really painful when you have to, like, spend a lot of money. And then you realize, like, I don't like it as much as I thought I would. No more of this roulette. Okay, for just a few bucks, you can test drive the real deal. They've got Dior, Tom Ford, Creed, authentic designer scents without the full bottle gamble. Yeah, my biggest problem, as you, if you might have heard in recent episodes, is that Jake Hollister was my scent, and now they don't make it anymore. So now I need a new scent. And luckily with microperfumes, I get to give that a little try because your scent introduces you before you even say a word. And if you want confidence in a bottle like I used to have with my charming Hollister, may he rest in peace. You know, micro perfumes might be for you if you're trying out a new scent. Yes, they have over 500 fragrances to choose from. And it's just a few bucks per sample. So you don't feel like you're, you know, wasting your money. So why commit blind to a $200 bottle? Find your scent soulmate today and get up to $60. percent off at microperfumes.com slash drink.

That's microperfumes.com slash drink for up to 60% off micro perfumes, real sense, no regrets. Hello. Finally, it worked. I've been screaming to this cavern for days. Welcome back. You may have heard of Hello Fresh. We love the stuff. They're the number one meal kit in America and in my house. And this winter, they're serving up even more to love because this ain't the hello fresh you remember. Instead, they've doubled their menu, which means it's now hello, hello, fresh fresh. Oh, God, the echoes are going to go on forever. Yeah, they're the number

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plus a free breakfast for life. One per box with active subscription, free meals applied as discount on first box and new subscribers only varies by plan. That's hellofresh.com slash drink 10 FM to get 10 Meals plus free breakfast for life. Ghosts, let's go. This is the Dumas brothel. Never heard of it. Me either. Well, I can't say that anymore, but 20 hours ago.

And now you know everything. And now I know certainly an insane amount. I actually, for someone who likes to yap and tries to fit as much in as possible, I had to redact quite a lot because I was just trying to keep the time. But there's a lot going on here. So this, hang on. Did I already fuck up? No, I didn't.

Okay, great. This is in Butte, Montana. Montana is on my list of places I still need to visit. So this might be an option. And we are in 1890. 1890, okay. Say it with me, you know it well. Good year.

It was founded by two brothers named Joseph and Arthur Nud. and weirdly enough, it's a brothel, and they named it after one of their wives. That's so romantic. And then... Imagine the brothers being like, how about we name it after your wife? Yeah, well, so apparently her maiden name was Dumas,

but my first thought was like, they named it after their wife, and it's, so Helen's like, dumbass. I was like, that's... Oh, yeah, I hadn't even thought of that. Extra mean. Yeah, I can't... Imagine Blaze opening up a brothel and calling it, like,

the sheifer. And I was like, why would you do that? And he's like, because my brother suggested it. I'm like, what? You guys are weird. We're actually in cahoots. That's super weird, guys. Don't you feel so lucky to be a part of this? So the brothers, let me charge my laptop real quick. The brothers were big shots in town. They owned a lot of companies, especially a lot of brothels. This was not the only brothel in town, certainly. And it was not the only brothel in town that they owned. But fun fact, this is the one that we're talking about. they had a lot of brothels in this area and this area was known as the

kind of red light district of Butte especially in the 1890s I think sex work was illegal was legal at the time and so there was really no hiding it and there really wasn't any like moral higher ground if you weren't involved in it

it was kind of a very common business I think okay fun fact for later at some point the brothers stopped working together and Joseph, who's the only brother you have to know the name of, he ended up owning the brothel on his own until he died at 77. Okay. So the only name you got to know here so far is Joseph was one of the owners.

Got it. After all of the brothels, like different expansions throughout the year, because it started smaller than it grew, then it grew, then it grew, then it grew. The building ended up with 43 rooms and still stands today and has all 43 rooms. so during its heyday because this is the most fun part of any brothel story is like the heyday the heyday facts i guess but during its heyday women were servicing this is so yuck servicing up to 50 to 60 men each day per person each 50 to 60 men the original cost at the time when they started the sex work at this brothel was 50 cents each per per 10 men

minutes um okay i should have done the math i did other math later for you i should have done that it was not our equivalent of 50 cents it was actually probably a solid pay right um and then this brothel lasted almost 100 years and by the time the brothel ended um sax workers were getting $20 a pop instead of 50 cents pop well wait so till like 1980 wait is that right 1990 oh my god we'll get there so okay um but it started with 50 cents for 10 minutes. And there was some note that I found in one of the sources were like the average time between a guy getting into the brothel, doing his business, and leaving was eight minutes.

Wow. Why do we know that, first of all? In and out. A lot of the sex workers kept diaries and the diaries were found. Oh, wow. Oh, my gosh, treasure trove. So this was another area. I just talked about a mining town recently.

This is another one of those. and it was actually also a copper mine. But the copper miners in the area were some of the biggest clientele here and they all worked three different shifts at the mines. And so the women also worked three different shifts so that way the brothel was a constant stream of revenue, if you will. Right.

They also catered to wealthier clientele on different floors. Basically, the level that you were on was the quality of service, I suppose, and the cost of the night. so the upper floor was for the wealthiest clients the next floor down which was like the I don't know ground floor I don't depending on who's listening the lobby the main floor that was kind of mid-tier pricing and then in the basement were the cribs as they call it and it was called the cribs because it was so small down there that basically only a crib could

fit what a weird like measurement to use a crib we couldn't call it anything of all All things. I can call it anything else. A wagon. Anything. A fucking, yeah, a wagon. That's a good one. A wheelbarrow?

I don't know. Trust me. I was like, that's fucking weird. Crib is wild toys. It's fucking weird. The rooms in the basement were called Cribs. This was also the area that had the worst conditions. This was kind of the area where a lot of the miners would come in from.

They actually ended up creating their own door down in the basement. So you didn't even have to go through their front door to get service. here you could just go through the back alley come in through the back do your service do your stuff as long as you were fine to pay the lowest price and have the lowest quality of experience probably with quote the yikes lowest quality of woman they could find or something or whoever's easiest i don't know whatever gross phrase they could come up with um and then you could leave and you've never even seen the main floor of the building yeah okay so even an entrance yeah private entrance yeah um and i guess a lot of the brothels i mean this was the red light district so a lot of the buildings were just brothel after brothel after brothel and a lot of them had a back door like this that all opened up until the same alley which was called pleasant alley oh god of all wait names i know at some point pleasant alley was changed to venus alley so if you live in the area that's what i'm talking about oh um but it was also like a really dangerous alley because it was where all of the kind of you know we're

you were going to do illegal nefarious things and apparently the women would have to advertise their work experience basically they were walking resumes so a lot of them would do the what you've seen in movies of like leaning over the balconies pretty much naked to like to entice come on in yeah clientele okay um anyway the uh the brothel itself was in fact the longest operating brothel in the country and it closed in 1982 which sounds crazy and it was around 65 years after sex work was illegal okay so it was doing some sneaky stuff under the radar before like I said earlier this was actually a very common business early on especially in this kind area where a lot of the clientele were kind of minors and they I don't know this was just like an easy

place for it to happen and also it was an area that required some version of revenue going through their economy and sex work did uh what's their word i'm thinking of it did contribute bolster thank you it did bolster the economy apparently a lot of the women would you know they were responsible for dry cleaners and um apothecaries where they needed to get medicine after their nights um so it was it was kind of holding the area together and so even if it even as it became less and less moral of a thing no one ever poop and like the people you know you everyone knows someone who's participating so it's like at a certain point who's going to tell on who yeah yeah and um there because it was a mining town

I wish I knew the source that I read but um a lot of women who were doing it they also were single women because their husbands working the mines and then they would die and so they needed a way to live afterwards so right um there was was a lot of reasons around why this was such a solid thing in the area. But in 1917, sex work became outlawed for the first time. Do you know why? I didn't know this. I think once I tell you, seven world war one, I have no idea. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. So, well, so they didn't want the soldiers to get STIs and be unable to fight in battle. So that's the only reason why sex work became. Oh, they're like actually, we have one more slightly more elevated purpose.

slightly more urgent purpose for these men which is going to get killed so we need them at their fighting fit at their fighting fit so this is when businesses had a start getting sneakier with their kind of like wheelings and dealings but for a long time police knew about it anyway and they ignored it again mainly because sex work was a huge part of butte's economy um one example of how um dependent the county was or the area was on their money coming in was that one One year, copper prices went up, which meant miners pay went up. They all got raises by like 25 cents. And that alone added $6,000 then or almost a quarter million dollars now to Butte's economy.

Jesus. Oh, my God. Okay, wow. That much more money went into sex work as soon as people got like a quarter of a quarter for a raise. Right. So this, this town was trying to keep the sex work, you know, alive as long as I could because it was doing. Make a staple as possible. Another reason the police ignored what was going on at the brothel was because a lot of the madams would pay them off.

They would have these like fines where like, if you pay this fine, then we'll walk away and we'll just ignore it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. Some cops who didn't play that way and actually did try to do raids on the place. Found their cop brethren inside and we're like, this is awkward. The captain's here. Time to go. That's what I picture in like the HBO version of this show. Of course. That was my first thought, too. I was like, I wonder if they're, like, keeping it under wraps because I probably go here in their free time, right?

Yeah, I would think some of them. If it's this normalized, I can't say people I know wouldn't be going. If it was this normalized, it just. Your A balls. What are they called? My balls, yeah. No, I just, I imagine if it's that normal, like, of course everyone's doing it, you know? So, anyway, a lot of people would try to, a lot of cops would try to do raids on them anyway when they were not of that world. and the sex workers had a way around that because they had not only really doing illegal activities but they had some immigrants who hadn't had their papers filled out yet

or anything like that working for them I think there's at least two or three people I read about that worked here and we're always afraid of being deported and so one of the ways that the sex workers helped them was that if there was a raid they made fake refrigerators in the kitchen that were just basically boxes

like just then they would just put them in the box and so like a cop would never think to go look in the fridge for people and it was completely hollowed out so they could just stand in there but it looked like a freezer and a fridge door and they would put a fake broken lock on the fridge door so that way if the cop tried to yank it and it wouldn't open they could be like oh yeah we haven't gotten around to fixing the latch yet it just doesn't open but it was and the person inside is like oh my god oh my god oh my god well it was a full door and on the inside it locked like three different times so they could lock themselves in and

It had air holes and everything, so they could be there as long as they needed to. Genius. And it was a refrigerator, so there was like pudding and all sorts of produce next to you. Unfortunately, no, it literally looked like a movie fridge. Like, there was nothing in there. It was you crawled in and just stood there. Oh, it's so creepy. There was no appliances in there.

It was just a hole. It was super clever. So just another way that, like, sex work was like not only helping the county or the area, but like their literal staff. Like, it was just a big communal space. I know it's kind of like weird to say, but it's true. Yeah. So anyway, all that to say, it was illegal since 1917.

They really cracked down in 1943 because of World War II. So both World Wars are responsible for this. So then they had to get even sneakier. They renamed themselves a hotel instead of a brothel. I think it was a boarding house that they renamed themselves to. And then they sealed off all of the like secret passage back alley doors and things like that. It actually said that they also sealed off the basement entirely, which is very interesting, which I will get to in a second. But just know that they, in theory, sealed off the bottom.

And so, like, it wasn't touched since, like, the 40s or 50s. Spooky. And then it was reopened. Spooky! I wish I were there for that. Oh, my God. I wish nothing more. It would be my dream to go, like, open those tunnels up.

The tunnels are still, like... They look like the walls we were not allowed to go back into at the Sally House. They were just like kind of like dirty and old and like untouched and like you couldn't even With the walls in the basement, you mean? Yeah, the ones. Oh, oh, yeah. Oh, right. The foundation of the home.

Yeah. Yeah, that's that looks, so it looks like my basement basically. Like just creepy like little pathways and dirt floors. Okay. Yeah, you don't want any of it. I mean, I do personally, but you don't. So I want to watch you have a great time. Yeah. You can watch my GoPro footage afterwards.

So the last part of the history I'm going to get into is that there were a lot of Madams that ran the brothel throughout the years. There are some significant ones that you do need to know. So I'm just going to only tell you those because I just, yeah, give me the top tier. Thank you. And if you need to write this down, I am about to say a lot of names. Okay. And you don't have gargoyles like I do. I don't and I'm really disappointed I haven't gotten some by now okay here we go okay so the first one there's eleanor okay and so basically she was one of the madams during the 50s she falls in love with the guy this is the story at least that she was going to fall she fell in love with the guy she was going to leave the industry she was going to stop her job as a madam she was just going to have a new life with this point she was done with this life okay done with this life exactly um leave it behind her but then she had her at least how the story goes she had her suitcase her boyfriend was supposed to pick her up that day and take her away from this town and he never showed up jilted as old as time jilted bride i swear i know every time and so the next day you know

as the story seems to go is that um she was found dead in her room oh now the thing is she was found dead in her room some people say she died by suicide um but some people say that the woman who found her whose name was bonita okay there you go um bonita found her and the autopsy report said that eleanor died of natural causes like a coronary issue or something but she was incredibly young that she shouldn't have totally that shouldn't be how she have gone um and the timing is pretty weird yeah and exactly it's very interesting that bonita is the one that found her because as soon as she died bonita stepped up and became the next madam immediately moved in with her husband immediately started driving eleanor's car immediately started using whatever money she had. Moved in with Eleanor's husband? No, no, no. Sorry. Sorry. That's crazy. No, moved in with her own husband. Moved in bringing her husband along. Okay. I was like, oh shit.

This is getting real dark. That's insane. That's like soap opera. She was her twin. Her evil twin. She actually peeled her face off and she was Eleanor. But so she started using all Eleanor's shit. She moved straight in. And then she even tried to like provide evidence that said like, no, no, no. Eleanor wanted me to have all these things we had had discussions where she was going to like I was going to inherit all this from her I guess she probably put someone in place like after when she was going to leave right she didn't her name was I think like jean or something oh a different

person yeah oh no okay this is starting to get fishy yeah so um it ended up being proven that eleanor I don't know about proven but there was other evidence against Benita's evidence that said Eleanor wanted to actually sell everything and not let anyone inherit any of it and the next person who was going to be a madam was this other woman that Bonita stepped in front of and got in the way. So interesting that all of this happened and she's the one that found her and could have made up the story. Maybe there was no boyfriend with a, and she had a suitcase and she was going to go run away. Like maybe she was just there and got killed. Oh, interesting. So we're hearing all this from Bonita. Yes. So she could have died by suicide, could have been murder. We don't know,

But she had been really coincidental coronary issue or maybe she was so upset it, like, triggered a heart attack. I don't know. On top of that, what's interesting is that the other big death that happened here was Bonita's husband, also found by Bonita. Not to be confused with Eleanor's husband, like I did for a moment. Okay, good. No, he was found at the bottom of the stairs with a broken neck. But his cause of death at the autopsy had a question mark at the end of it, because even the mortician or autopsy guy he was unsure

the things didn't add up. A question mark is wild on an official document. It's like broken neck question mark. Ooh, that's, yeah, okay. Or whatever the reason was. I don't tell it. But so I guess they thought that the broken neck, the stairs were not steep enough for him to have broken his neck that way. So there was talk that his neck was broken previously and then he was thrown down the stairs by someone. Make it look like an accident. Okay. And of course he was found by Benita who also found the only other dead person here. Bonita. Bonita. Bonita. Um, so he, yeah, so that's interesting. Anyway, she became one of the next madams. And after she ended up stepping down,

came along a woman named Ruby. You don't need to know anything about Ruby, except that she was involved in a robbery at some point here. Um, and she was the last madam. She was the madam until the 80s. But, um, after the robbery, really trying not to get into more drama, but they ended up closing the place they discovered too much after the robbery they were like you're obviously still running a brothel it's the 80s goodbye yeah this is actually we're in a new era now so yeah so um just to keep it short and tight that's what we're going to go with so in 1982 the brothel officially closed and it turned into a museum it had a bunch of restorations done to it to like try to preserve it um and during these restorations the whole basement or chunks of the basement

were unsealed and they found all of the stuff that was original from 1943 all the way down to like cigarette butts on the nightstand table oh it was just sealed right off oh my god condoms and coins there was glasses still with alcohol dried into it there was clothing just like leaving your drink for a minute and then it's like oh no it's actually going to be there for another 40 years untouched that's crazy there was like a masquerade mask that if someone was into that a lot of the stuff people found in walls like they found like match books and like and clothes and the walls um and all of it is still down there it literally just looks like a shrine it's yes yeah and you can go on tours and see it um so all of us to now say fast forward to 2012 where uh it has been um the guy who's owned it

has been trying to do restorations and turned into a museum he ends up selling it to a couple named Michael and Travis, and they also wanted to help turn it into a museum and a gift shop and an Airbnb. Did Michael walk by? What happened just now? A door just slammed at my house and places on a trip. And I'm like, it happened twice. And I was like, I heard Geo making noises.

And I was like, oh, it's just the cats. And then the door went, bam. And now he's, now he's pacing the room and I'm getting freaked out. Geo? maybe blaze came back yeah maybe he came home with us exactly maybe leona actually grew up 20 years immediately and just just walking around

please hold yeah please go viral if i die okay great make the most of my death i certainly hope to don't worry good luck hello why hello one-way ticket to a not surviving the horror movie.

At what point do I decide that she didn't survive this? And now it's just a one-man show. I was hoping for some, like, remote commentary from the other room through the hall, but I'm not even hearing her. Oh, my God, is it her? Oh, thank God. Well, I'm still alive.

I yelled hello and then nothing happened. We heard. I was like, well, that's literally the first thing you don't do. And, like, why? I don't know why. I just thought maybe Blaze came home. I understand, like, rationally why someone would say hello, but also, like, the other option is that a person you don't want in your house is a hello back.

And now they know you know they're there. Yeah. Really dumb. And also, I was thinking, I will say sometimes when I yell at the cats, they come, like, running by because they're like, so I thought maybe I'll yell hello and they'll, like, come scuttling out of the room but it was just silent um so i don't know if it happens a third time where i'm out of here if it happens a third time yeah something's gone awry and i need to figure out what's happening did it sound like aggressive or like because it's because one of the cats just

bumped into a door that's what i'm wondering but i looked at all the doors i could find and nothing seemed like closed or even leaned closed i don't know my doors here are pocket you're still just like staring down the stairs oh okay my doors here are pocket doors so like if they move I'm for sure out of the house. That means like the earthquake is so bad that the house is like tilted and it's just sliding. Which like honestly not unheard of I would imagine in LA, but. No, I'm sure. Oh man.

Well, it's either, I mean, nobody's on my doorbell camera, so it's either a ghost or somebody has been living in the walls. I am. I don't. That sounds horrible. Well, that was. He was protecting me. Not really. He followed me downstairs with his tail between his legs.

That's what I thought. Yeah, someone at the dog park was like, would Hank protect you? And I was like, literally not a chance. I don't believe, until I witnessed it with my own two eyes, I don't believe any dog would do that. Even though I know for a fact, there are dogs that are like very productive. Gio would be like, oh, no, she died. Mine isn't. I'm going to go back upstairs.

He would help the killer. Yeah, you brought snacks? Oh, yeah. Let's kill him. Couldn't know how to have a better plan myself. Yeah, I'll hop in your car. I'll wait there. well so okay so we were at um they unsealed it and doing my dream i want to know all about it i want yeah

and there's just a whole bunch of cool stuff down there but in 2012 a new couple owned the place to continue renovating michael and travis michael and travis and they wanted it to be a gift shop they wanted to turn into an Airbnb but the spirits were not kind to this couple um and you tell me well don't tell me what you think yet but be aware of michael and travis they are michael in particular is a big character here who by the way didn't see a single fucking lick about michael on my reading journey but on my watching journey oh so the couple in general like do not get mentioned at all and then all of a sudden like every tv show they were involved in or there was a quote from them or something and so um i was shocked that this didn't get mentioned a lot although we'll get there i there's too much to

through. So Michael and Chavez they want to turn this into an Airbnb. The spirits were not kind to them. Basically Michael was it it seemed that he was the major victim to a lot of the dark energy here. He

would talk about how he was constantly feeling like he was being choked by something here how he would get shoved onto the ground, how he literally would get lifted off the ground and slammed down into the floor. He would go into the basement as little as possible because I haven't really talked a lot about the basement except that it got unsealed, but that area is certainly the darkest, creepiest.

I can only imagine, especially if it was, like, the most efficient part of the building and they're just, like, getting people in and out through a secret door, or, like, through a secret door, private door. And it was kind of like the groatiest area, area. The cribs. The cribs. And that was also the area that was sealed off. I mean, it was, it's like opening a jar and, like, I mean, it's just, it feels like now we're messing with our time capsule. With people's, like, half finished drinks and stuff. I mean, it's just really creepy.

Yeah. And it's like Airbnb potential. Like, why don't you go sleep in a crib where a bunch of women had to sleep with 60 men each a day for 50 cents? They were very creative. I got to give them that. Yeah, very entrepreneur attitude here. I mean, you buy a building and it's got 43 rooms. I do see how it's a thought.

In 2012, like, that's ahead of the Airbnb curve, I would say. That's like early days for Airbnb. That's very, very creative situation. Oh, did you say B&B or Airbnb? at the time BNB but I'm sure it's going to become an Airbnb as technology

got it okay I thought they were like let's get this thing on Verbo wow they're really okay so they want to make it like a bed and breakfast type bed and breakfast okay got it got it got it but Michael is really noticeably

going through what he thinks is like going through it going through it to a point where he is the topic of multiple ghost TV shows that come to film here because he seems so obsessed and weirdly attached like kind of in the way that you always hear people saying they're like oh they were

attached to this building and they refused to leave and they were acting really anxious and panicky when you're watching the episodes he looks fucking freaked out like he is acting very odd. Ooh. And so the first show I watched was Dead Files. And that's when there's the paranormal investigator and the

private eye and they both look at it. I remember this episode. So basically Michael's friend calls them for helping like our friend Michael lives here. He is weirdly obsessed with this brothel. He refuses to leave. He believes it's his duty to be here. He has some weird attachment. But every time he

leaves the building, he acts totally normal. But when He's here. It's, like, super frenetic and odd. He's, like, very uptight and, like, controlling and freaked out by everything. He has time slips where all of a sudden he doesn't know where he is. He feels total anxiety, but he also can't leave. And the psychic, Amy, identifies there being an older male landlord, which was probably Joe, the guy I wanted you to remember, because he, at some point, the brothers broke up and he was the only one who... Oh, Joseph.

Yes. Okay. Who owned this place until he died. And so, and then she ended up describing this guy that she was seeing in all of her visions. Ooh, and then she does like a sketch artist and it's like, ah, I love that show. And she did weirdly describe a picture of Joe, or Joseph, but she said that without knowing any information about this place, just walking in, she said, there's an older male landlord here who's involved in illegal activities. He likes to hurt, choke, and punch people. He has seen as a dark mist down here.

And he's very educated. he's rich he has white hair he built the literal building we're in he's disgustingly greedy and then she says she also senses women down here being very sexual and then she said I sense quote drug dealers kid sellers and pimps kid sellers oh god so fun fact there was actually a woman uh that was known in this area and she was in the red light district so where she ran essentially a back-alley abortion clinic. Okay. I mean, I guess that goes hand-in-hand with something like this.

Yeah. Sure. And she actually ended up having three manslaughter charges for botched abortions and the women dying. But there were other times where she would, the women wanted to deliver their babies to full term. And she would help deliver the babies, but she would tell them that their babies were still born and then sell them. Oh, no. Yeah, that's sick. Up to like 30 babies that happened.

Oh, my Lord. for like $500 at the time. So it's weird that she picked up on that energy too. And a lot of people send children down here and don't know why. Oh, yeah, because it doesn't seem like there would be any reason for children. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of like yanking on your pant leg and all that.

And they think that the kids just grew up here around it if they had nowhere else to go because their mom was working here or living here. So anyway, at the end of the show, Amy, and by the way, the private eye seems who have been able to validate all of this stuff. At the end, though, Amy hears Michael talking about his obsession with this house and then she finally sees a picture

for the first time of the guy she was describing and it was this guy Joseph who built the building from the very beginning and was the original owner of the brothel and says that Joseph and Michael, the current owner, look very similar and believes that Michael is Joe reincarnated.

Oh. And that's what I was also doing it to in the morning. God, what? I don't remember this. And that their souls were, like, weirdly shattered but spliced and intertwined with each other. And that's why he's so attached to the brothel because he's trying to carry on a duty that he had in a past life. Oh, my. And Michael and the whole team kind of eat it up because he's, like, desperate for an answer. So, yeah, I mean, what are you going to do?

Disprove it, right? Like, you can do what you want with that information. Yeah. You can believe what you want. It's a little out there for me. believes that I'm like, I guess. He seemed really desperate for someone to explain why he was how he was. Okay, poor thing.

After that, I know I'm going on a lot here, but we're talking about the ghosts now, so I hope everyone's chill with that. Here we go. The next show I watched was, of course, fucking Ghost Adventures. And it was clearly filmed after Deadfiles because the introduction to this is that Michael has now been an owner of this place for five years. And he is obvious. He's changed his name to Joseph legally. well he obviously is still in an agitated state he's still acting super panicky i was hoping at least it would like have calmed him a bit but so um they do they don't say the show dead files gave us

this information but you can tell it was cut where that had been said and then they just cut right into the scene well they're like actually we don't want to give credit to anybody so we'll just say it so michael's friend who was also on dead files who was the one who called them to say come help my friend. She's also now being interviewed by Zach tells them, you know, Michael's still acting really odd and he's very weird and he's like, he acts totally different when he's not here, but here he's like totally off. Still. And tells Zach how the house has been affecting him and that he is Joseph reincarnated pretty much. Weirdly, Zach doesn't react the way you would expect. He seems actually concerned. And since deadfiles, apparently,

this is a super weird fun fact that Michael also bought a house to live in outside of the brothel and what are the odds without knowing it he bought Joseph's fucking house so he bought Joseph's house that Joseph used to live in and he bought Joseph's brothel and didn't know either time I mean listen I'm convinced that he's reincarnated but whatever what do I know so I mean and also like the friend too is also acting very odd and like very similar to how Michael is acting. They're both acting very agitated by things. They're like seeing things. Who is she Bonita reincarnated? I'm starting to get suspicious to these people. So hold on to that. Both Michael and Jenny the friend are acting very bizarre. I mean,

Zach is genuinely weirded the fuck out. He's like, that, like, that's got to tell you something. He's like not even doing his usual bits. He's like, you can tell he's like, are you fucking okay? Like, what's going on? Oh my God. And like, at one point, he's, He's trying to talk to her while during the walkthrough. And Johnny's like covering her ears and like it's like she can hear something or see something and she's like wincing at things and she's saying like he's right behind you. And Zach's like, that's my job. I'm supposed to be on the floor like holding my head and saying I'm possessed, not you.

Yeah, it's like you're still in my thunder ear. Well, I will say this was not mentioned anywhere, but I wanted to make sure I did some due diligence here. It seems in hindsight that Michael and probably his friend who's, seems to always be around we're dealing with some serious substance issues oh shit and in 2018 michael died of an overdose no that's terrible so that certainly kicks a portion of the paranormal stuff out the window um and when you look at it now with that knowledge it does feel like a pretty solid answer yeah yeah um especially because both of them are acting exactly the same

same way. It feels like erratic and yeah. And I don't know. I don't know. Maybe I'm totally off on the friend. Maybe she was just maybe something really paranormal was happening with her. I'm not sure. I don't know.

I can't speak. I wasn't there. But we do know that alongside this, which if you are leaning the spooky route, you can always say, oh, well, he went that. He was influenced by. Because of all this stuff. Whatever, you know. But he did die of an overdose in 2018.

Oh, that's sad. And, um, so to bring some levity back to this where I can, we got Zach Bagan's on the radar. So we can, I mean, he's here. Right. Yeah. Okay. Um, so. Yeah.

So. Yeah. So, whatever happened to Travis? Travis ends up selling it because Michael passed. Oh, sad. Okay. Um, and, and Travis was really going through it, too. Like, he said that there was people touching him.

Like, he could feel like a woman, like, you could feel like a woman like grabbing him. and like he was really uncomfortable as well and that they were all having paranormal experiences which personally I think two things could be happening true true be happening at the same time maybe sometimes they were not in their right mind and it wasn't paranormal maybe it was really paranormal and no one believes them because they were also right the influence so who knows um but uh anyway so while after Zach interviews these people and he's like totally freaked out not knowing anything else um they do their own investigation and the the episode is very fucking creepy there are huge crashes and thuds in the basement that everyone in the house hears they use the sLS or stick figure camera and it um it does like touch people on the arm right when they say to do it and people can feel it and touch exactly where the sLS figure is showing up they used um the paranormal puck which is essentially texting with ghosts and uh they were able to speak to who they think was is Eleanor, and there was a lot of interesting things there. I'm just trying to get through this quickly because there's something I do want to mention to you. In a very creepy way, Billy and Zach at different times have, like, they black out and go into time slips, and they don't, when they find Zach, he's in an empty room facing the

wall. I told you, that's his job. He needs to be the one having some sort of crisis. He's like, I need to bring it back to me, actually. Yeah, actually, this is focusing a lot. on other people he does ask the ghost why don't you like me and an EVP that is very clear says I just don't okay fair enough and then this is what I wanted to get to um I'm sorry I know I've been rambling everybody but I I've really got so invested in this one don't be worried I apologize in advance

I have quite a doozy of a story too so okay cool well this is the part I wanted to get to in case you did need some levity here it is Zach while he's here wants to try and experiment what this is a quote i thought i know i already know tell me is it some sort of he wants to like entice them the sex workers or something you were close you are you are you are that is sounds like what would happen but his whole storyline was he was after the big bad dark joseph and not the sex workers which is for okay for fucking once yeah for once truly okay so flip it around and what do you get wicked witch sorry tic-tok um sorry it's like a whoosh it's a whole thing anyone who hears the phrase flip it around these days

knows what i'm talking about okay but for zach flip around the situation and instead of going after the women he wants to go after the one man that owned this brothel and an exact quote from zach is i thought it would be a good idea to bring what this man wants women so So Zach hired multiple women And dressed them as women of the night And then made them each stay alone In an empty room in this house Including the basement everyone's afraid of

And the attic There was one girl sitting alone in the basement So he just filmed all of them So he just filmed them And then he was Oh my lord Once he was at nerve center I guess he gave each of them a walkie talkie

So you can hear when he talks That every room is hearing it He's like now I get to talk to all these women at once Oh my God this guy He basically says, oh, I did, I wrote the quote. I'm so smart. Okay, so he says into the walkie-talkie. He's talking to the man.

He's like, wherever you are in the house, I know you can hear me. Ladies, this is the quote, ladies are in your rooms now. And remember, these are like fucking probably 20-year-olds who like just wanted a chance to meet Zach Beganz. And now they're stuck in basements. Extra 100 bucks or something for like an acting gay or whatever. Yeah, the holidays are coming up and they need a TV credit and to buy some dinner. Yeah. Love that for them.

I would do it. he says ladies are in your rooms now we brought these ladies to you you can choose which lady you want go to the room you like and you can touch the ladies if you like you can do whatever you want tell me they signed a waiver for this because like touch them i'm like tell me this was a paid gig tell me you flip into the union for this tell me that please at the least dude like and also like they're not just like in like sweatpants like they're in scantily clad yeah that's Zachary picked and one of the them i don't know if she was just really rebel spirit they have a skulls like one of them's like really trying to like be a part of the bed and like it's like leaning on the bed as if someone could walk in and like they're trying their best but like you know that one girl in the basement all by herself you know they didn't tell her a single thing girl she'd be she's like wait a minute i don't think i agree to this well at one point the girl in the basement her name's mckinley by the way she hears heavy footsteps coming down the stairs of the basement and she's alone this is not anyone

else they are there are heavy ass steps and you can see poor mckinley she is smiling through the pain she's trying so hard to keep it cool and she's fully panicked um she's probably like someone's fucking with me but what if they're not fucking with me and they're like we're not fucking with you her face drops she's like this was a really funny dare and now i'm tired now i'm really regretting it so um then zack this is a quote from him if these footsteps are from a malicious spirit i don't want to put mckinley in any danger you fucking put her in a basement with a man who wants to hurt people. What are you talking about?

And then said, go touch her and take your pick. Pick your pick. Also, I can't believe I wouldn't dare put her in any harm. So then Zach heads down to her, uses the spirit box, and a voice comes out that says, I found you. Yuck! Sorry, that was loud. McKinley, by the way, at this point, is holding on to Zach for your fucking life.

Yeah, like, carry me out of here, dude. She's over this. Meanwhile, an orb happens up in a room or something happens in a room where Zach has to leave. and so the final quote I want to give you is McKinley is in full panic mode as I inform her that she'll have to remain down here by herself he's like but I don't want to put her in any harm's way lock the door

what the fuck and keep in mind I have really blown over the fact that like a lot of people died down there like violent men were down there right right with all the yeah and so it's like the the vibe is very spooky and he probably told her all that while you locked the door

we'll see, you know, a bunch of people were killed down here. Bye. Anyway, they're going to take their pick. So nowadays, the place is owned by David and Charlie. They offer ghost stores here. They do overnight investigations. They have been interviewed by many of the YouTube shows I watched. My favorite quote of theirs was, they said,

when we walk into the building, every time we come in, we always speak to the ladies. And we say, hello, we're back. And several times we've gotten a very friendly voice saying hello, which is very precious. Oh, that's nice. At least I talk to the ladies, not Joseph. You're telling me. So I'm just going to rattle off some of the ghost things that happen here. And then I promise I'll leave everyone.

And they still happen, right, with the new owners? Oh, yeah. Yeah, they're very, I don't know if proud's the right word, but they are not ashamed of the ghosts here. They own it. They own it. And they're like, you can go in and do like overnight investigations. Well, that's good, at least that they like respect the history of it and they're not just like, oh, nothing happened. Yeah.

Yeah. they seem like the right people to be living there or working there they actually work like they live 300 miles away and every other weekend come back just to let people investigate yeah wow um so other people who have visited here of report seeing shadow figures darting between rooms and down hallways um icy blasts of air for no reason people have felt fingers twirling in their hair they felt their head their head getting pat their butts getting pinched and smacked people have felt themselves getting choked pushed they have woken up with bruises the next day like fingerprints are on them people have felt like extreme nausea to the point where they've thrown up people have felt hands caressing them they felt breath on their neck

they've seen three clawed scratches show up on their skin people have seen apparitions of a woman in black walking around or pacing the halls and they've also seen an apparition of a woman carrying a suitcase which they think might be Eleanor before she died because they thought

trying to leave oh my gosh there are also apparitions clear as fucking day there were some YouTube videos of like a whole ass person just like walking right behind the person on a camera and like it's like oh that actually wasn't someone who works there it was so fucking creepy I can't say a whole apparition but like you can see like a head is bouncing this like a full head

like it's like obvious there's no movie magic on that they there are very clear EVPs on recorders and empty rooms. And one YouTube I watched back to back the words that came out of an EVP session were, they mean you harm, watch out for evil. I made that sound. I'll affect you. Ew. Like I ought to just like treadmarks in the ground because I'm driving away so fast. No wonder people are vomiting. I would vomit if I heard that. Seriously, I'd be like, bye, I'm going to puke. That's horrible. Also, like, watch out. They mean you harm. Here I go. I can affect you. Like, wait a minute. Are you the same person? Are you the person

who means me harm? Hayness. It's heinous. There is an EVP that is apparently clear as day and people who knew her have confirmed this is her and they know exactly what she's saying. The last madam, who I wanted you to remember, her name was Ruby and she was a part of a robbery there. Remember? She was the only one you told me not to write down to be fair. I wrote down Eleanor and Bonita. But I do remember all of them um well ruby was the last madam there was a robbery there um that ended up closing the bank or closing well closing the brothel and there is a very clear evp of her saying it's not in the safe and check the refrigerator check the fake refrigerator that's where three of our employees are um so uh and the people who knew her knew that she used to keep her

pistol in the safe and so they're assuming that this is a residual memory from when she was being robbed and they tried to look for a weapon and she said it's not in the safe and if you were to hear it if if you were to hear it it sounds because it's from someone from the 80s like it just it's you know they always make the joke of like where are the ghosts from like 2002 yeah yeah yeah yeah it just sounds like a random person like on the phone or something just being like it's not in the safe like oh oh um um one guy who I really enjoyed, I think his name was Fisk, Chris Fisk, he said that during an EV

EVP session, he was not a believer, by the way. I think he like worked or did part-time stuff at the building and he just stumbled upon people doing an investigation. And so he's kind of sitting around and hearing this go on. He said something about like, oh, I left my phone in the car and they got an immediate EVP of a voice saying, did he just say telephone? Oh! Like, they were... That motherfucker has a telephone in his car. Like, they were probably so confused. Yeah.

Or, like, there are a maze of telephones still exist in this era. And, like, yeah, like, they can be in a car. But I thought that was so weird. That's really cool. Did he just say telephone? That's really cool. And because, like, you wouldn't necessarily predict that sentence next. Like, you wouldn't ascribe that to, like, a random sound.

I feel like that's a very specific phrase. Yeah. Did he just say telephone? People hear all kinds of voices. footsteps, thuds. People feel like they're walking through spider webs in certain rooms. People time slip constantly. They wake up from these timeslips feeling like violent and aggressive towards their friends. Ooh. People have been... That's Zach. Yeah. Punching Aaron in the head. People have been chased out of there. They felt something like on their backs when they were running up the stairs. Woof. Uh-uh. The exact worst

nightmare. People have on the spirit box gotten their own names and then the phrase get out. in the basement like we have heard before there was a domineering male energy there and when the interviewers have asked the staff what kind of activity has happened here a lot of them just use the phrase just about everything

I mean it sounds like it I believe it in the cribs in the basement there is an overwhelming fear there is panic anxiety sadness a mirror flew across the room by itself things moved down there by themselves all the time one psychic who went down there

literally was quoted saying it was more than a creepy feeling all basements are creepy this was frightening oh and then a construction worker refuses to go down there anymore because his tools kept going missing there was one death in the basement where a sex worker actually protected another sex worker from a guy

with a knife and ended up being stabbed to death and so one of the film crews went in and put in like put flowers down for her and then nobody touched the basement for a few days and when they came back the flowers had been stomped on and shudged under a rock oh shit oh my god oh that's dark um and then one artist was staying in an upstairs room uh and had like some inspiration to paint eleanor uh because she's like this this woman who passed here and was a madam here but she could not get the face right to save her life she kept saying like she just felt compelled to paint differently and she ended up painting this

different face every single time she tried and she apparently did like tens of versions of this painting and could not get it right no matter when it always ended up being the same face that she didn't recognize so she showed it to the property owner and they were like that's not eleanor that's bonita yeah i do it oh my god i do it the one who allegedly killed her that is so creepy um speaking of eleanor and benita there is a psychic there that that went there named kathleen who went on a tour and after talking to the tour guide and passing along her business card the brothel like put itself in disarray like became a complete mess after the psychic was there i guess um the tour guide started closing up and started hearing sounds to the house like

the guests had not left yet and so she thought someone was hiding or like what got got lost in the house um but she was just there by herself and then the next day when she opened up this is a quote the place was a mess the hats that hang on the walls were on the floor lined up down hallway oh my god pictures that have been on the walls were lying on the floor the interior doors that were shut and locked were wide open and then later um that same psychic came back a second time and had this moment in brave i know had this moment in the madam's quarters where she felt like immense sorrow she saw the painting of benita um and she just like felt really like touched by this But that night when she went home and went to bed,

this is a quote from her, I was awoken at 1 a.m. when I felt my cat jump on my bed and pounce on my foot hard. I sat up to shoe her away and then remembered my cat hadn't come inside that night. And then I saw her, Bonita and she was sitting on the end of my bed.

It was the late. It was the lady from the painting. She had followed me home. I asked her to explain her presence. And she began to answer me in a confident and authoritative tone saying, please tell Rudy, the property owner at the time, that the Dumas will be okay.

Tell him that Bonnie said so. Bonnie. She looked at me directly in the eyes and held my gaze for a moment with her blazing eyes, and I sat up to touch her and poof, she completely vanished. Whoa. The only remnants left was the dimpled outline of my bed cover where she had sat upon it

and the lingering faint scent of ladies' perfume. Whoa. With that, I knew that I had to call Rudy immediately. What did Benita mean? Rudy will save the Dumas. From what? And then Rudy later said that the Dumas was the focal point of a lawsuit and a legal nightmare that was looming.

And a few months later, the legal issue was settled in his favor and the ownership of the building came back to him. So he did end up saving it. There was a mysterious witness named Bonnie. Yeah. I know this was so long. I have two clips I want to show you. And I'm ending on those.

I'm ending on those. Oh, my God. I've, like, terrible goose cam. Oh, my God. For all the people who are, like, Team Christine's story, I've really, like, edged you guys. I'm so sorry. It's, like, not that long.

I am going to send you of, I don't know if we can show it to other people, but I want you to be able to see it. Yes. I took a video of it on my phone, because you had, like, pay to watch this. Oh, right. So this is in the basement in one of the cribs,

and this is a ghost, team and they were getting a bunch of EVPs or like a spirit box talking to them and they kept getting the word wait and so they're like wait for what wait for what um and then and then this happened it just sent it to you i hope it went through watch it now yeah Jesus fuck dude did you watch the whole thing it does it twice Oh, it goes again. Oh, so you can get the second time when it's zoomed in on that object. What is that object?

So funny, you mention it. It was one of the bottles that they found in the 40s that had been left in a wall there. And the bottle, so for people who did not get to see it, the bottle that is sitting on a dresser, literally by itself with no one's touching the dresser there's no reason for it to move the bottle just goes bam just drops on the dresser after they ask like wait for what your boyfriend to come back and then like a few seconds and boom yeah and i love every time one of these clips happen in a ghost show you just hear beep because they immediately starts wearing like immediate sensor i love it um but so that bottle was actually an original bottom of loudonym which um in the 40s was used for abortions and was also used a lot by the sex workers to die by suicide. Oh, God. Although there is talk about maybe it was not actively intentionally meant for that. Yeah, because I think it was also used as a medication.

It was used as a medication, but three teaspoons of it was a lethal dose. So you had to take very little of it, and some people might not have known and accidentally been poisoning themselves. And you don't want a bottle of that spilling around onto your nightstand. No, but the fact that it's also empty is like, where did it go? Or was that just shared with a bunch of people or what? Well, probably if it was like sitting there for decades, it probably. evaporated. You're right.

So anyway, I thought that was creepy enough to show you. A bottle literally just full-blown moved itself. And then I'm sending you a link to a YouTube clip. And I want you to go to the 35 on the dot minute mark. Got it. And basically, this is a guy, the guy I said I liked earlier, Mr. Fisk. He was, again, a non-believer. And this is the thing that made him believe.

He stopped by this investigation where he did not, he did not believe in this shit. and then he saw a picture that someone took of a random guy they just took a picture of a guy who was working there

and that's what they got in the picture okay and we'll put the links in the show notes with the time's this is paranormal files by the way

if anyone wants to go look at it on YouTube okay 35 seconds or 35 minutes oh is that all the fucking crazy thing

hey hey that's fucking horrid. Hey, stop zooming in, show. The amount of times you need to zoom in and then zoom out and then do, oh my God. I literally. And like, part of these things, I'm going to die. That has to be like a costume or something. But like the fact that he's not a believer. He was like, that was what made me a believer. He was like, everyone got out of this fucking house. Get out. We're leaving. He literally said that. He was like, hey, bye. This is the scariest photo I have ever seen.

So for those who can't see, there, he was in, in the middle of an investigation. with an investigative team and they were taking just random pictures around the house to get I guess like some like baseline shots and they took a picture of one of the guys on the team and when the picture developed there is like not even a question of a doubt of full face in that guy's face staring at you and smiling really intensely huge eyes like her face like this like horror show you don't have to guess it looks like a person in a costume standing in the picture with him like like almost. like white face paint or like makeup like a clown like it looks like clownish but like oh it looks like horror struck oh oh oh oh i hate that and it like her her face is like it almost looks like old timey because like her it looks like her hair is pulled back or like because it was kind of like an older time maybe like being that pale was a thing yeah you know i mean not to immediately call this out but like it almost looks like her nose is like missing which i think isn't that a thing of Isn't that what happens when you get syphilis that your nose cartilage starts to?

I mean, I don't know. That's kind of a stretch. I like how you're like not to call her out. She's not. Let me immediately diagnose her with my non-medical degree. But like it looks like a horror show. Like it looks like a skeletal, like a- Well, people in the comments are saying she looks like a corpse.

Yeah, it looks like a corpse. Her eyes are like wide. It looks like she saw something horrible. Oh, hey, this is really awful. I can't stop looking at it. Yeah, I saw that at 3 in the morning and I went, okay, not going to bed tonight. Bye, I would not be able to deal with that. No, no.

Anyway, I thought that was a great way to end. That's the Dumas brothel. Please look at the photo. Maybe we can link the photo somewhere because, like, that's horrid. Yeah, it's paranormal files, the Dumas Hotel, and it's 35 minutes, like, on the dot. Oh, my God. I like how they circle it. I'm like, yeah, I see it.

You don't need to put a big circle around it. She's right there. I feel like they were like this, you clearly, we'll have to circle it because you're going to think this is a random person in the picture with us. It's a full-ass person, and she looks. horrified it's almost like we're seeing her last moments yes that's what it looks like she just saw something and got startled to death i like can't look at her in the eyes i feel like she's going to show up in my house it's actually like really unsettling it's like actually really you know what this reminds me

you have the only time i ever kind of felt like this maybe not the only time but one of the times was that picture of that little boy in that one house oh the amityville horror amityville where there's that little boy like behind the stairwell who's like looking at you like that i feel like is the only time I've ever felt so startled by an image. It's absolutely horrid. Yeah. Anyway, I really went down a rabbit hole and I was trying to fit as much in as I could. So I hope everyone was fine at that.

Oh my God. That was so scary. By the way, that picture alone makes me not want to visit. Like it accidentally did backwards marketing where I'm like, I can't be there now. I'll be honest. I want to go now. Part of me is like, oh, I still have to do it in my 50 states. maybe I should go take a visit and I'm like yes maybe on the world's busiest day take a bunch of

selfies because I want to see if she shows up oh my god um oh oh that's horrible all right beat that with your story seriously I'd give up honestly I quit um that was crazy that was crazy what would you like to do for intermission um first I'd like to pee and then I don't really have anything prepared mm-hmm do you want to brainstorm while I go pee I'll also pee and if I come if I don't come back somebody's been waiting for me the door slammed again yeah okay it's hard to think of a thoughtful gift right but nutrifle makes it easy because it's thoughtful it's practical it's meaningful healthy stronger hair is a gift that keeps going long after the holiday season ends i've referred uh several of my friends to neuterful i've used it for years

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I know. I really, I need an upgrade. Hmm, whatever could we do? Hmm, I have a great gift idea. It makes it super easy. It's called an aura frame. And it is such a thoughtful gift, but also such an easy gift. And then you got pictures of Hank.

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for the holidays and support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. Wow, folks, that was quite a yappy hour we just did, and it was a lot of intense conversation. So we're back for more intense conversation. We suddenly, yeah, we suddenly realized what we were doing and we were like, oh, we better do the episode so we're back for the episode um i have a doozy today okay um this is the story of aaron patterson and the mushroom murders literally thank you i don't know what's about to happen

but it sounds when you've got a name like the mushroom murders it's a dozy dozy do you remember this this was within the last couple years i've literally never heard this before no okay so let's get into it, Aaron, E-R-I-N-Patterson, was a 48-year-old woman living in Leon Gatha, I hope I'm saying the right, a rural town in Victoria, Australia. Cool. She was separated from her husband, Simon Patterson, and shared two children with him. In mid-July of 2023, she invited her ex, Simon, and her in-laws, which were his parents and uncle, to a lunch at her house.

Gail and Don Patterson were Simon's parents, so her parents-in-law. Then we've got Heather and Ian Wilkinson. who are Simon's aunt and uncle. Simon was invited as part of the lunch, too, and Erin explained that she wanted to discuss her health issues with the family. But the evening before, Simon, her ex, sent her a message, and it said, sorry, I feel too uncomfortable about coming to the lunch with you, mom, dad, Ian, and Heather tomorrow,

but I'm happy to talk about your health and the implications of that at another time. And Simon was her ex? Her ex. Yeah, they were technically. still married but they were separated. I see. Okay. And they had kids together. So it sounds like she had something serious to tell him. Correct. And she had kind of made that clear. She's like, I want to talk to everyone about. And she had hinted at some health issues recently. So they weren't totally shocked by this. They just didn't know what the actual conversation would be about.

She was not happy with this message. And she responded, that's really disappointing. I've spent many hours this week preparing lunch for tomorrow, which has been exhausting in light of the issues I'm facing and I spent a small fortune on beef I filet to make beef wellingtons because I wanted it to be a special meal as I may not be able to host a lunch like this again for some time oh so starts off rough and despite the fact that simon did not come to the lunch erin went ahead with the plan anyway she served individual beef wellington pastries each containing beef pastry and mushrooms with side of mashed potatoes and green beans she told her guests that the news she wanted to share is that she had recently been diagnosed with cancer and she said she was seeking their advice on how to tell her

children oh my god yeah so they saw it more as like a family meeting rather than just like a casual social lunch right so they they spent time with her Aaron had reportedly sent her children out to a movie before the guests arrived so that they wouldn't be around for the conversation and the lunch proceeded without incident they said goodbye and they headed home that night within hours of leaving. All four guests became violently ill with severe vomiting, diarrhea, and their conditions deteriorated rapidly overnight. So, I can't, am I allowed to make a guess here? Please. Am I right? Yeah. Okay. I'm not going to guess. I'll instead say, I don't know, beef Wellington's are my favorite foods. So I was going to make you guess what the meal was, yeah. Beef Wellington is

on my last row meal request. Well, it's perfectly apt for this conversation then. Have you ever made it? I certainly couldn't make it, but it's shocking how few places in L.A. serve it. I think it's one of those dying dishes that no one makes anymore. Isn't that the Gordon Ramsey special? Or am I wrong about that?

He does make a Beef Wellington that is famous, yeah. But anyway, I'll say I would be just as sick as these people if you put any Beef Follington in front of me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was interested because, so red-handed, which they just do a great show, I listened to both of their parts on this story. And they talked about like making Beef Wellington. And I'm like, I've not made it. But it is hard. Because you use like a, what do you call that? The long cut of beef, like the whatever. It's like a roll. Yeah, that thing. And then you're supposed to cook it like to the right temperature, medium rareish, like throughout. It seems like a tough thing. She, however, did. individual, which isn't really a normal thing, I think. I think you're not, it's not usually like...

It looks like a tiny little loaf of bread. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So she did a little bit differently. Either way, the following morning, Simon received a call from his dad. Remember, he had not attended the lunch.

His dad calls him, Don. Don says he and his wife, Gail, were sick and needed to go to the hospital. He added that Heather and Ian were sick as well. On the way to the hospital, Gail asked her son, Simon, whether Aaron had mismatched dishware because she had used a different colored plate from everyone else at the lunch, which is kind of a wild thing to say right out the gate, but because it's like, and red-handed made a good point, too, of like, a lot of dishware comes in sets of four, to be fair, you know, so like, okay, red-handed, okay.

You would maybe take the extra plate, right? But it is a little bit odd. And to clock it's so quick, it's like either you noticed right away, or you don't even realize what, how profound what you're saying. Or subconsciously, it stuck until, you know, and you didn't even realize. Yeah, it's just odd. He said he wasn't sure, but perhaps it was mismatched tableware. That was the reason. They get to the hospital.

Dr. Chris Webster, he becomes pivotal in this story. He asks the patients, he's alarmed, right, all for them. First, he thinks maybe food poisoning, but the way, the level of their sickness is pretty shocking. So he asked him about their recent meals, and he pretty quickly suspects amatoxin poisoning, which is what is caused by death cap mushrooms. I was going to say, was it a type of mushroom that she shouldn't have used? Okay.

Type of mushroom. Death cap mushrooms are responsible for approximately 90% of fatal mushroom poisonings worldwide. Ooh. But they're quite rare in Australia. So he's immediately alarmed. Dr. Webster tells the family he needs to speak to whomever made the meal, ASAP. So Simon called Aaron, his ex. She said, yeah, you know, I've had gastrointestinal issues since.

the lunch yesterday and all morning. And I think I'm going to come in and get an IV at the very least. Aaron presents at the hospital. And Dr. Webster rushes out. He hears she's there in the waiting room. He rushes out, said something along the lines of, I've been waiting to speak to you. And she just immediately looks alarmed and shocked. And she says, it's not a big deal. I'm just a gastrop patient. Like, what's the big deal? And he's like, I need you to know, you might have been, you might be affected by a potentially fatal toxin and also like like if anyone dies even in a world where it was not intentional that's a manslaughter charge babe like you're totally he's like we need to figure this out and not even if you're in trouble but like you need to tell us what's going

on so that we can fix this before it becomes fatal he tells her we we need to admit you for treatment and observation and she says um i have to go actually feed my dog and they're like Like, she says she has to go home to feed her pets and pack a ballet bag for her daughter. In CCTV footage, you can actually see a nurse trying to stop her from leaving, like is walking up and putting a hand on her shoulder and being like, please, like, we need you to stay. She is determined to get out of there. She's like, absolutely not. What did she think was going to happen? The second you walk into a hospital after that, you have to assume.

She came voluntarily. That's the other thing. It's like nobody tricked her into coming. She came voluntarily. basically Simon called and said hey the doctors are really worried about you because everyone's sick and they think it might be food poisoning or maybe even like a fatal toxin and she goes yeah you're right I should come in and then she comes in and they say hey we think it might be mushrooms from wherever they were sourced where did you get the mushrooms she's like I have to go die

oh boy she pieces out one thing that made me laugh was like I said she had said Oh, I've had gastrointestinal distress. I've had diarrhea all morning. She is in that CCTV footage boldly wearing a set of white pants. And a number of like internet folks have pointed this out. And like, yeah, obviously it doesn't necessarily mean anything. But it's like, girl, like, were you wearing white pants? And you're saying, oh, I had diarrhea all day.

And like I've been barely able to go anywhere. And it's like, what are you wearing white? Even like a Heather gray sports gray sweat pant would be. Rough choice. Scary. You go black. You go black every time. Yeah, in that situation.

So after Aaron left against medical advice, Dr. Webster made what is now an infamous call to Triple Zero, the emergency number. He tells dispatch that he needs to track down a woman who could potentially be afflicted with fatal toxins from a mushroom. It's unclear in the call because he is very professional. He sticks to the facts. But he had already begun to suspect Aaron had a little more to do with this than maybe initially realized.

When you run out and there's fire behind your heels because you are trying to get out as fast as you can. Has you heard the word mushrooms and your eyes went really wide? Yeah. Yeah, you got to suspect something. At the very least that it was accidental, but something happened. But something might have happened because he's like, we got to track this woman down. The reason he had gotten initially a bit suspicious is that this was more nefarious than just an accident, is that he had asked where she'd gotten the mushrooms and she said Woolworths.

And he was like, I smell bullshit. Obviously, like, Woolworth is not selling death cap mushrooms. And also, he said, like, I might have, he insinuated, like, I might have believed her if she had been foraging for mushrooms and it was an accident, whatever. But, like, Woolworth is a wild choice. If you're going to say, oh, I accidentally came across poison mushrooms, you'd mention the foraging. If you had been foraging, you'd be like, oops. Or like someone gifted me these from when they went foraging, yeah. Some mysterious, yeah.

And so she said Woolworse. And he was like, hmm, okay. So this is not just like someone who's admitting to amateur forging or anything like that. The Woolworth's comment was a huge red flag. Two hours later, Aaron reappeared at the hospital. She claimed she'd gone home and accidentally fallen asleep. Evidence would later show that she'd been driving around aimlessly on the highway for two hours. Probably, like, racking her brain for what to do.

For sure. I've been in that mode where you're just like driving it and you're like, what? I mean, not about this, but. No? No, not quite. No, I could imagine just like being in a panic, just being like, what do I do? Yeah, like circling, like trying to get your brain going. So she comes and she's like, oops, sorry, I fell asleep.

Now we know that wasn't the case. Upon arriving the second time, Aaron told doctor she was feeling much better and that there probably wasn't much to worry about because she'd actually given the leftovers of the Beef Wellington to her kids and they appeared to be fine. Hello? Hello. And she actually did feed it to them? Mm-hmm.

Wow, she went full Monty on this. Okay. Well, we don't know. We, the kids have later said they ate leftovers, but we're not sure. She may not have fed the tip, but that was the story she told that. Yes, she fed the leftovers of the beach, which another point, like, even if it was just food poisoning and not like a toxic, a fatal mushroom, why would you just, you throw that away? Even if it was just like basic diarrhea, you know, even if it was just mild diarrhea, you shouldn't be feeding that to anybody. I'm sure one of her arguments was like, well, Beef Follington's really hard to make. So like I was going to really make it work because that was not worth the time.

So they said like, hey, we just told you that this could be fatal. And she's like, don't worry, I scraped the mushrooms off because my kids don't like mushrooms. And still, like, what are you thinking? Yeah, no, thank you. And they don't even know if that's the case yet. Like, we don't know. That was just a guess that it was the mushrooms. could be the beef, you know, who knows? She is just digging herself a hole because I feel like she could have left the kids out of this, but now they're going to be panicked being like, where are your children? You might have just killed your children. So they say, you need to go get your kids out of school and bring them here for observation, for assessment.

And she says, no, I don't want to scare them. And the doctor who's basically had enough of this, he's reported to have responded with words to the effect of, do you want scared kids or dead kids? Oh, good for him. We're not fucking around here. all the while don gale ean and heather were on the decline doctors needed to know where aaron had gotten these mushrooms she claimed she used a mix of mushrooms for the meal some of the fresh ones were from woolwurst and the dried mushrooms were from an asian supermarket they called

local infectious diseases physician professor ronda stewart she's immediately concerned that this is going to be a public health risk that if if a supermarket were inadvertently selling death cat mushrooms that this was going to be a widespread issue yeah so she shows up up and is like you need to tell us where the supermarket was do you remember anything about the area what neighborhood she gives a few suburbs um she can't remember out of a few suburbs she can't come up with like can't remember wild it's kind of like when um well it's not but it's it's making me think of when certain restaurants like had to like pull their stock on like lettuce because of like a coli or something yeah and like there's a huge frenzy because everyone could be

getting poison people could die because it's like spreads yeah absolutely taken so, so seriously. I don't think she thought through her backup alibi here. No, she really did not. She's causing a citywide panic. Yeah, she's one of these people that, like, thinks she's real bright, and then,

and she is smart in a lot of ways. Like, she's an air traffic controller. She's passed the test to do that. She's a smart woman, but she thinks she's going to fool everyone. And it's like, she's already shocked that they figured out the mushrooms so quickly that it's a poison mushroom.

the way she reacted like uh like totally caught deer cotton headlights was like i have to leave like she panicked like she didn't think she'd get confronted once at all that's crazy and she's like well i have a i have diarrhea despite my clean white pants i mean i don't know wow okay so she goes to speak with erin she's like you need to tell us this could be a disaster for the public erin is reluctant to speak with her she keeps like not she keeps evading the question she said oh it was months ago, I have no clue where they came from. Doesn't seem particularly concerned. So then the professor Rhonda Stewart says, have you been mushrooming? And Aaron said no. Later, Aaron claimed she didn't know what this meant? And it's like, she's like, I didn't know what meant foraging for mushrooms. And it's like,

well, what do you think you're on like a, you're taking shrewls? Yeah, like, what else could it mean? Whatever, fine, you didn't know what it meant. So she says no. Six days after the lunch, it's August 4th, 2023, both Heather Wilkinson and Gail Patterson pass away in the hospital. Don Patterson died the following day on August 5th, 2023. Doctors tried everything. They tried a liver transplants. They actually did a liver transplant and all three of them passed away. Ian Wilkinson spent weeks in the hospital. This is Simon's uncle. And by the way, he was the one who knew her the least, which is so crazy. Like the aunt and uncle didn't know her very well. The parents-in-law were they've they'd had an ongoing relationship with her for years but the aunt and uncle were just like

oh we were happy to be invited like we just just happy to be here we're there like help out nobody's safe nobody's safe um so ian he spent weeks in the hospital he was actually put into a medically induced coma yeah for months and he actually survived i'm sure she did not like that because he woke up and was able to tell them all about the lunch and everything that went down, he woke up, he survived, they said, against all odds, but he had to learn that his wife of 50 years, his sister-in-law and his brother-in-law had all passed away. Oh, my God. And to this day, he continues to suffer long-term health complications. I saw somewhere that he called himself half alive because he had lost his wife. I know. Oh, my God. And he's a pastor, and he continues to

what do you call it preach in church and he's only ever spoken about this with like sadness and he doesn't like berate her or blame her it's pretty wild but he just clearly this is such a tragedy thankfully the children were confirmed to be unharmed so for whatever she said she thankfully did not do anything to them but again it's like so she's fine and her kids are fine I know. And everyone else is shady. I know. August 5th, 2023, investigators searched Aaron's home.

They took multiple phones and a tablet. And on the tablet, they found photos of kitchen scales with mushrooms on them. They then took these scales and tested them, and they tested positive for death cat mushrooms. Uh-huh. There were also pictures of a dehydrator with mushrooms in it. and a full working lab over here i mean really and why are you taking pictures of all this when asked if she ever owned a dehydrator she said no so they were like hmm but they didn't tell her they had the pictures they didn't want to kind of show their hands so they said well we found

this manual and they had found a manual and she said well yeah i collect manuals okay sure for appliances you don't own that's so fucking weird. What are you talking about? You collect manuals. It'd be one thing if she was like a 50 year old dad who had a big Ziploc of all the manuals of the things of the house. And probably, I mean, someone who likes to read the manuals, I'm sure. But like to collect them and say I've never actually owned when I just have the manual. I mean, what are you talking about? So not own it or to say you don't own it is like, how did it even get here? Why? Why? And I want to add to like the caveat that technically devil's advocate like just because there were death kept mushroom

traces on the scale doesn't mean she necessarily knew at the time they were death cat mushrooms right so like but they were shown to have been holding death cat mushrooms at some point yeah so when police checked her bank statement wouldn't you know it four days after the lunch with the family when basically right as they're about to pass away she had paid through they were able to see through her statements paid for a visit to the dump where she was also caught on camera and she was dumping a food dehydrator at the dump. Whoopsies.

Right. They pull it from the dump and find traces of Death Cat mushroom in the dehydrator. I mean, this is a slam dunk, huh? I mean, really? It's absurd. On November 2nd, 2023, Aaron Patterson was arrested on three counts of murder and five counts of attempted murder after it was discovered that her ex, Simon, had been ill and hospitalized for a mysterious stomach illness months earlier. so the accusation was not only did you kill these three people attempt to kill Ian who survived but also like at least once tried to kill your husband like it was like a like a practice round maybe or like a failed attempt you know yeah or if i do it to him first and not everyone all at once

then it maybe looks less suspicious if it's scattered or something could be i don't know he he did we'll get to his testimony he did almost die like on multiple occasions so i think oh i think she was attempting this and you know one of the theories is that she was just aiming at him the whole time and when he didn't show up for lunch she was like well now everyone else is collateral damage and that's your punishment I guess I mean I don't really know the logic there crazy wow yeah but I mean think about that suffering of like your parents and your I mean it's just really sick wow and the kids are in the middle I mean that's so sad it is so she was arrested um for both murder and attempted murder.

So now I want to get into the trial and the evidence, like both circumstantial evidence, including the white pants, which isn't really evidence, but is more like internet side eyes. But I want to start the day that everyone was hospitalized. Remember she claimed like she'd been sick all day since the lunch she spent that morning with terrible diarrhea, et cetera. She needed an IV from the hospital. Well, turns out she had actually taken her son to a flight lesson 90 minutes away and back and she only stopped one time during this trip.

So, like, if she were having constant, you know, stomach issues questionable. She would still be at the airport. You'd think, right, you'd think you wouldn't get very far, or at least, like, make multiple stops. Unless you forget when we were on tour and I had horrible food poisoning, there was, there's no stopping you from. There's nothing.

Especially if you're wearing white pants, my dude, if that was an accident, you made a big mistake. But there's, and there's no, well, let me just drive 90 minutes in this direction and hope for the best it's we are you are stopped down for the count so when they show this when they see this footage of her stopping at the service station um she only goes into the bathroom for nine seconds and they're like well so it doesn't even seem like you went to the bathroom and she said well no actually what happened was i had to stop like for an emergency bathroom break on in the bush like on the side of the road and so i'd used like some napkins and stuff to clean myself up and when we got to the gas station

and I went inside to throw away, like, the paper towels and napkins and stuff. It's like, okay, they asked her son, and he doesn't remember stopping on the side of the road. Then again, he doesn't remember stopping at the gas station either, and he's like a kid. So it's like, but you'd think at least say if your mom was like shitting on the side of the road, you'd have like slight memory. I mean, again, I don't know. It's a kid. I don't want to put him on the spot like that, but.

I'll put my mom on the spot. I still remember when she peed on the side of the road. I still remember. I mean, listen, it's something you, I feel like it's hard to forget. it's like when it happens it's got to happen it will be in the zeitgeist forever yeah and so he doesn't remember stopping inside of the road for what that's worth um what's more is after she spends nine seconds in the bathroom and then comes out which is like if you were peeing you didn't even wash your hands for long enough you know um she leaves and she goes and buys a sweet

chili chicken wrap from the gas station with her dirty bathroom hands isn't that but but to You have diarrhea, food poisoning. You're going to order a sweet chili chicken wrap from a gas station. Literally. Oh, shit. It might as well get fish sticks or something from a weird, from a gas station. Yeah. Oh, my God.

Yuck. It's just a wild choice to me. I'm like, this just all feels ridiculous to me. All in white pants, yeah. Yeah. And this is, again, like, obviously this doesn't prove anything, okay? But like, I know people have probably eaten worse stuff during food poisoning bout. But like...

In my spirit, it proves something. Something's up. Yeah. Aaron appears calm. She doesn't seem frenzied. nothing seems wrong in the footage. So prosecutors contrasted the footage, like, with the claims that Aaron made about having diarrhea all day, being so sick she needed an IV, you know, all this going to, like, she admits

at the time she needed to be hospitalized and get to IV, and it's like, okay, clearly not. The prosecution argued the footage was inconsistent with the severity of illness she had described. She claimed that she had stopped on the side of the road, but that couldn't be proven, obviously. now as for foraging mushrooms she was asked again at a later point not have you been mushrooming but have you been foraging for mushrooms or foraging for anything she said no i've never done that okay in may 2022 records show now this is where things get a little specific so i have to use my words carefully in may of 2022 records showed that aaron had visited a website by the way using Bing searching on Bing please ask jeeves how to kill my husband what's the one my

stepdad uses duck duck go it's just embarrassed never heard of that one it's that one doesn't store your information so i'm like okay but like your iPhone does so whatever like okay you do whatever's gonna make you feel better so she goes to Bing uh and she searches for a website called i naturalist with like a little eye, eye naturalist, which featured a posting about death cat mushrooms having been spotted in a particular area called lock. Now, only 10 days after this was posted, and we cannot prove she read that posting. All they can prove is that she went onto the website during the time that that was posted on the website.

So there's no way to prove she actually read what was on there. But the posting was by this woman named Christine who said, hey, I just spotted this mushroom. in this spot even like geo tagged it because she was a former poison expert and she said she goes like on hikes and stuff and when she finds something dangerous or whatever she takes it she puts it in like a doggy bag and throws it away so that nobody accidentally picks it sure so she puts the tag there for all the other nature people eye naturalists yeah or like keep an eye out because we don't want random people wandering and like eating a mushroom off the ground and it being poisonous so and because they're so rare in Australia it's like oh if you see these like you should market and you know being

someone concerned about public safety public health they pinned it well we can't prove she read that post but she did go to the website and uh during the time that that was posted and 10 days later Aaron's phone showed her traveling from her town to the area called lock and staying in that area for about an hour just an hour just a quick just a quick quick out she spent nine seconds in the gas station bathroom but she spent an hour yeah that's a great point actually i'm just saying okay so another sighting of the death cat mushroom this time in an area called out rim was posted may 22nd the following day her phone showed her driving to lock again then to out rim then back to her town where she stopped at a store to buy a dehydrator

girl like please girl please okay two months later she hosted a lunch that ended up killing three of the guests circumstantial and phone evidence can of course be vague especially if you're like triangulating where somebody went it can't necessarily prove they were doing what you're saying they're doing but it looks pretty damning when you line it up with everything else investigator especially when she said she's never been forging but then she's on like a foraging website. She's like searching for a foraging website. I've never been foraging, but I know exactly the spots that are marked for me not to go if one were to forage.

Yeah. Yeah. And I have been to those spots, but to do something else. Right. But yeah. Okay. So then they say,

okay, well, here's the footage of you dumping a dehydrator at the dump four days after you poisoned all these people and they were on their deathbed. They checked the dehydrator. Of course, they're traces of these poisoned mushrooms. Another wild thing, remember when I said they searched her house, they took the tablet and they took several phones.

So she had actually done, I think, four factory resets on her phone since the lunch. And she had also replaced, she gave the police a phone that had the wrong SIM number in it, or a SIM card. It had a new SIM card or a different SIM card with a different phone number than the one everyone was familiar with. So she claimed she had accidentally given them the phone that, like, she wasn't her main number. And it's just all a little shady and dicey, whatever. Her lawyer argued, like, well, in the footage, you can see the phone laying out. It's not like she was hiding it. But it's like, okay, but to give your phone up and then it's, like, not the right phone.

Yeah. It's weird. So when they went through the factory reset log, they found that it had been reset multiple times. once on the afternoon that police were in the home searching and she had actually said to them I need to go to the other room to make a private call to my lawyer and they let her do that and it was there that she reset the phone the final factory reset was done remotely when the phone was in police custody already okay and on the stand they asked why she did that and I guess she thought she was being funny or clever and she was like I wanted to see if those dummies like had

left the phone on and it's like pranked yeah yeah yeah really yeah and it's like okay hmm well we see you did it so it's not like helping i don't know i thought this story was going to be over the second they found the dehydrator at the dump like it's like or whatever it was like how are we still even asking questions it just it just doesn't stop i know yeah the trial was held in moral moral oh god this was one of the ones that red-handed apparently got some shit for saying wrong. Morwell, Victoria. I said Virginia.

Well, that's wrong. The trial was held in Virginia. The trial was held in Morwell, Victoria, approximately 45 minutes from Leongatha. The trial lasted approximately 9 to 11 weeks, which was much longer than anticipated, because, like, what you said, it sounded like a slam dunk. More than 50 witnesses testified. Wow. Apparently, this small town was so, like, bowled over by the number of people that their

hotels were swamped with like reporters and the jury and witnesses and that poor small town just like oh no they were they were thriving their coffee shops started selling mushroom tarts you know what i know i know it's fucked up but i love red-handed was like you got to love australian humor i was like that really is the most australian thing i've ever heard where you can shove a theme so dark yeah yeah it's like okay and apparently they were selling out you know i mean whatever great good for that Yeah, good for them. So yeah, they have this like booming trial. It's like sensational. This is basically like the story. And it's in Australia, it's huge. I mean, I remember when this was happening. And I remember feeling so sad when I first heard about it. Because I was like, that's terrible. Imagine accidentally poisoning all these people. Because they're like, nobody knew right at first until the trial really happened. And I just was like, oh, how devastating. And then like the more I read about it, I was like, oh, she doesn't seem particularly bothered that she killed three people. people let alone like things are clicking all the sudden she's more concerned that like I got to get

rid of this dehydrator you know oh yeah so yeah it is a mess and the central issue at stake here was whether Aaron Patterson knowingly and deliberately served the death cat mushrooms or whether it was just a terrible accident which is what she claimed and I will say too there is footage and I can't watch it again because it's so crungy it's horrible it's her being stopped by reporters outside her house, which not cool, but they're like, hey, tell us what's going on. And she starts this sort of like performance. And she's like crying, but not. It's like that Chris Watts guy. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, with Shanan Watts. It's similar vibes of like your whole body goes, ooh, this is not right. It's not right. It's not right. It's fake. Interesting. Okay. And it's not done well.

Was she saying anything? Yeah, she's like, it's terrible. What's happened? And at one point, oh my God, she goes like this and she checks her hand to see if there are tears. And there's no tears. like it's really ominous and you're watching this like and she's like what like it's so bad and I'm like you're not even good at pretend crying it's it's it's it's startling to watch because it's well I'm not going to ask I want to I want to I'm going to let the story play out and I'll okay I hope I hope I hope you remember because I don't want to accidentally skip whatever it is no no you're good I was about to totally take us on a turn and I'm really trying to lock the fuck in here okay it's hard it there's a lot to discuss but yeah so it's like this fake

and it's like this weird boo-hooing and like she's checking for tears there's no tears um she's also like her stature is so odd like she's just kind of standing there like crying and it's like typically if you're like upset and on camera like you're trying to like cover yourself shielder in some way it just like try to like hide that you're crying yeah or stop but it's like unnatural it's really unnatural and like unsettling to watch um and basically she talks about herself the whole time she's like they were so good to me i would never do anything to them like it's like okay but they're dead and you're saying like oh and then she mixes up which one survived like she says the wrong name and it's like hello that's literally so twisted it's it's it's really terrible to watch

it feels terrible like you're just like your whole body's like on edge watching it um it's not cute so basically the whole time she's claiming this was a terrible accident and i can't believe that this happened and yada yada so evidence showed that that There was tension in the family before this lunch and that their relationships had somewhat deteriorated over the years. So text messages were introduced in which Erin referred to her in-laws, her parents-in-law, Don and Gale, and her ex, Simon Patterson, disparagingly. She was actually in a Facebook true crime, true crime Facebook group called ATW. No. She was in a Facebook true crime group about a different case called Kelly,

who's her name was Kelly Lane. It's a famous Australian true crime case. And during lockdown, she and four other members kind of splintered off into a separate group and would message each other regularly. Okay. So one message to another member from Erin read, I've been hiding powdered mushrooms in everything. Mixed it into chocolate brownies yesterday.

The kids had no idea. Girl. Girl. Girl, come on. And then she's like, Like, I've never owned a dehydrator, but oh, yeah, I forgot I used it for multiple recipes for multiple nights on multiple children and people. And told people about it. You know, the confidence is astounding.

I know. It's like, or like the complete, like, it's like, it's like you got to be delusional. You have to be. You have to be on a different planet, really. To either think you can get away with it or really believe your own situation. I don't know. Yeah. To really, like, be that self-involved, it's, it's disturbing.

So she had messaged these people like about not only powdered brownies, but she'd also talked about her in-laws. And in one message, Aaron called the family a lost cause and said basically fuck them. Nothing was particularly damning. Like it's not like anything that you would be shocked to read somebody right about their toxic relationship with an in-law. Like it's not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, oh, they suck. Fuck them. Okay. Well, it doesn't, that doesn't really, it's not as damning as it might sound. But of course, like, In context of, hey, they all died. It's a little more important. I hate the police are looking at everything I'm writing. Yeah, yeah. Then you kind of got to do a little, you know, preemptive, like, how is this going to look? But no planning blows my mind. It would be the only thing I was paranoid about.

But so the wild part, too, is that the first time she was, like, looking at those mushrooms, it was like a season, it was like well before she ever actually foraged for mushroom. So this has been like an ongoing thing. Like, the idea must have entered her mind a long time ago. the actual lunch they said took about two weeks of preparation that she had like been planning or talking about it but yeah this seems to have been like a kind of longstanding plan of hers in some way or another so this showed like the frustration she had with her in-laws which you know goes to show oh she also claimed like oh we have a great relationship everything's fine they're wonderful to me and it's like well

you're clearly not telling the whole story because you're on talking to your friends about how much you hate them. He's like, ha, they're, they're great. I'm just going to kill them. What? Yeah, they suck. There are a lot worse in-laws that are also not being killed by the way. Yeah, yeah, that's the thing.

It's like, you don't have to murder about it, you know? Like, you don't have to go that far. You don't have to do that part, you know? Like, Jesus Christ. You can just like block them on the phone. Even fantasizing about it, I'm sure people do, but you never actually do it, you know? I mean, I don't, to clarify, but I'm sure some people do. and it's like wow this takes it to such a new level especially if you've been planning this for a long time

and especially like including the aunt and uncle like what the fuck did they do it's just a lot um also she claimed like lunches like this were normal and everyone in the family was like no no no no sorry it was not it was not normal nope so simon patterson testified uh the ex he said he believed aaron had attempted to poison him on multiple occasions in the past evidence showed simon had previously become critically ill after eating meals prepared by Aaron. He had even been in a coma at one point, and he had lost a significant portion of his bowel that had to be removed, and two times his family was told they needed to prepare for his imminent death.

Oh, my God. So she really did try, allegedly. Literally, like, medically getting yourself, like, bowels removed is not a light surgery. Yeah. Yep. So charges relating to Simon were eventually dropped, and I think people presume this is they wanted the final case to be very clear cut. Not like, oh, a year ago she'd potentially tried to poison her ex. Like they wanted to focus on the lunch and say, this is what happened. The end. So now let's get to the cancer claim. Because like, first of all, what's happening here. What are the motives? Why did she do this to begin with? That was what I was going to ask you a while ago. And I said, I don't, I didn't want to. My thought was to. Did she? she even have cancer? No.

Okay. So, okay. So I had whatever shred of pity I could have left when I thought maybe she did have cancer because I'm like, okay, family annihilator shit, you think that you're not going to be here and you just don't want anyone to suffer and you think you're putting them out of their misery or something once you're gone, which grows on the cockiness anyway. But, okay, so she just felt like killing. Nope, you'll find out.

There's more of a motive, I believe. Oh, okay. doubt that I didn't see coming, Christine. Okay. Well, you just thought she was like, I guess I'll kill them. Yeah, I thought she was like, I'm just going to use it as the reason in case anyone asks. What the cancer? Oh, no, the cancer had nothing to do with the actual murder.

That was just how they believe she got them to come to the lunch. She said, I have big, big news. She also didn't think Ian would survive, right? So she thought everyone in the stream is going to be dead. They're not going to be able to say, oh, she told us she has cancer. I thought she was going to use it as her own alibi when she, like, why everyone had gathered. It's like, I was going to tell them.

which also would have been crazy because the doctors would just be like she doesn't have cancer well so that she did so they go well hang on Ian is now awake he claims that you told everybody you had cancer and she's like yeah yeah you know I I did have a fear of I did have a cancer scare okay and you're on the stand yeah dude like good luck with this one good luck walk yourself right off the cliff here because she says oh um yeah I I I had this fear and I actually had a schedule. There's actually a reason why I lied about this. And they're like, okay, well, we just went through your medical records. There's no history of cancer. So explain. She says, well, actually, the reason I lied about that is because I was really embarrassed about

what was actually going on. I was going to go at gastric bypass surgery. And I was too embarrassed to tell my in-laws about it. So I lied and said it was cancer, but I knew I would need their help when I had this surgery. So they're like, okay. weird that you waited until trial to tell us that. Also, like, so you were embarrassed to tell them, but you knew you would need their help during the surgery.

You're going to have to tell them eventually. And also, like, that would be crazy to tell people, I have cancer. And then say, how do I tell my kids? Oh, my God. I was just embarrassed. And so. This is such a frenetic, crazed plan. It's a mess.

Yes. And so she testified she was too embarrassed about her gastric bypass surgery to tell her ex-in-laws. It's so much more embarrassing to lie about cancer. Yeah. What are you talking about? Oh, I'm embarrassed that I, you know, I'm losing weight. And you were planning to tell your kids about it. Remember she met with them to ask how she should tell her kids that she has cancer, like, hello? And so they asked like, okay, well, where?

And this is when you know her lawyer's like just pissed off because like she's just going rogue. Okay. They asked like, oh, well, you said you had plans. So where did you have your consult? Like, where did you have your consult for the surgery? she goes oh it's this med spa called Enrich and apparently the prosecutor in during court runs out of the courtroom because he's like i got to go check this immediately like i gotta go check because this is coming up during trial like this is not something we had information about so he runs out figures out and rich literally does like Botox they don't do surgery okay so she's just fully med spa and i went yeah exactly like they don't even do it's like a surgery you know and they don't do anything even close so she's really fucked herself here. She's on the stand for way too long, of course,

because she's convinced she's some sort of outsmarting genius. Crazy. She eventually is, like, cornered into admitting that she lied about never foraging mushrooms, she lied about never owning a food dehydrator. And when they were like, why? She was like, well, I was just panicked because I realized, like, people were dying and I didn't want to get in trouble. And, like, it was an accident, but I was too scared to say anything.

What? Okay. Sure. After six to seven days of deliberation, the jury returned unanimous guilty verdicts. Aaron Patterson was convicted of three counts of murder, one count of attempted murder. That was for Ian. And the sentencing occurred in the Supreme Court of Victoria before Justice Christopher Beale, who described the crimes as an enormous betrayal involving substantial premeditation.

By the way, remember she made individual beef wellingtons, basically so she could portion out how much of the toxins everyone was getting. and then her plate was the only one that didn't make her sick and was on a different color, right? I mean, it all is just such a bad look, including her, like, false story about getting everyone together, her cancer. I mean, literally not an inch of this feels good. No, none of it.

None of it feels like, like, no, none of it even feels close to being part of the truth. Aaron Patterson was sentenced to three life sentences for the murders of Gail, Don, and Heather. 25 years for the attempted murder of Ian Wilkinson. There was a non-prol period of 33 years set, and that means with time served, Aaron Patterson may apply for parole in 2056,

and she'll be about 82 years old at that point. So Aaron Patterson has formally lodged an appeal against her convictions. Prosecutors have also appealed arguing the sentence was manifestly inadequate. In the meantime, Erin is still in prison. She is actually incarcerated at the infamous Dame Phyllis Frost Center which sounds scary

It's a maximum security women's prison in Melbourne and she reportedly spends up to 22 hours per day in her cell due to safety concerns because she's so notorious and reportedly was even accused of tampering with an inmate's food Of course, wow, it's like how much can I get away with here?

Yeah, so now for the motive basically all they could come up with not really, I mean not that anything's like enough to kill a bunch of people over this is like a mass murder here but like you know maybe if it's like oh sexual abuse or something like that enraged you or whatever it's like okay maybe I can understand but all they can figure out is that in 2022 Simon had filed a tax return saying they were separated and they were but Aaron was livid because she had actually when her mother had passed had received a two million

Australian dollar inheritance and she had loaned a lot of money to her in-laws to her brother and sisters-in-law to build houses with no interest. She had like really helped her in-laws out, given them a lot of resources and money. And now the way that he filed taxes basically fucked her over, like just totally fucked her over. So she was livid, understandably. And she confronted him and he said, oh, it was a mistake. I can fix it. But apparently she was like, no, fuck you. And then went after him for child support. But that backfired because a child support agency said like, okay, well, Simon, you've got to stop paying for the kids private school. You've got to stop paying for this. And you actually are now required to send a $40 payment

per month per child, which like is nothing. Unclear why it's so low. It could be because of her inheritance and that she had a lot more money than him. That's my guess. I don't know the details. But essentially now she's screwed and she's getting 80 bucks a month. And he's not, no longer She had to pull her kids from private school. He's no longer paying for anything. And she apparently asked her parents-in-law to mediate, but they said they didn't want to get involved in anything financial. So she basically felt like they were like enabling their son.

You know what I mean? Like, which could she have hoped that everyone was going to get together at the center so she could like corner them until like peer mediating their conversation or anything? No. Okay. She'd already tried that for the past year or two. And they just were like, we're not going to get involved in the finances.

But they were doting with the grandkids. They were very close with the grandkids. They had a great relationship. They were very loving. They were still really kind to her, although Gail didn't invite her to her 70th birthday party. And I guess Aaron was absolutely incensed by this. But like, think about the ego you've got to have to be that furious. Someone didn't invite you to their 70th, your ex-in-law, whatever.

I mean. So petty. Get a grip, dude. And like even Gail claimed like, oops, it was an accident. sorry of course we want you to be there and like she just was not having it and it's like it looked like you were looking for a reason dude it's so different that i thought she just had cancer and was going to just kill everybody so everyone died to go i thought's as simple as i thought this was going to be so much more nefarious no no um so they wouldn't they wouldn't involve themselves

in their sons like financial stuff and they were like listen that's not just fair i mean fair exactly like if your ex-daughter-law is like i need you to me i mean this just messy so simon claimed it was a miscommunication. She just was not having it, especially after she had loaned his family, like, hundreds of thousands of dollars. But it's like, then don't do that. Like people say, like, if you're going to loan money, don't to people, especially like in your life, like friends and family, do not expect to get it back. Because if you do, that can cause such a rift. Like, anybody whose family has, like, donated money to each other, I've just always heard horror stories about this. Like, years later, there's disagreements about how much it was or

what they agreed to or the terms of it or whether it was a gift or a loan you know and it's like I've just always heard if you're going to loan money to someone do it. Just assume. Assume it's never coming back. And if it comes back, it's a great surprise, you know? Because like this is just a recipe for disaster. Yeah. If you're gifting money or giving money.

Like just if you're loaning it to family. Yeah. Just assume it's not coming back to you. And from what I can tell the family, I mean, she didn't charge them interest. I assume I like to think someone paid her back. I don't know. I never got the vibe that like they stole all this money from her and never gave it back. I think she just felt really like taken advantage of even though that wasn't necessarily

what was happening. Yeah, I got that. And she was like, she took it personally and like, you know, this is her ex and she felt like she was being left out of the family. Just a messy breakup. Really messy. And she made it so much worse. So yeah, that's a really long one.

but that is the mushroom murders of Australia. I think that's one of my favorite stories recently they've told. It's a dozy. I mean, it only wrapped up this year a couple months ago. So it's very, very new. It happened in 23. I never heard about it. I remember, like, feeling so bad for her and then, like, reading into it and going,

oh, shit. Someone did this on purpose? Like, oh, yeah. A whole house full of people just annihilated. Horrible. wow um a mushroom grew in my yard yesterday go to bang not a death cap search eye naturalist don't let

honestly i think it came from him i think his fertilizer is giving me mushrooms now ew i know it was a pretty like magazine looking mushroom was it one of those white ones yeah yep yep that's that's is a poopy mushroom i have no clue i don't know but it's it it popped up exactly where he goes to the bathroom i was like is he doing this so it doesn't appear to be a death cap but i would not test that theory certainly i would not want to eat it since it came from no matter what it feels like i'm just going to consider it a death cap it feels ah yes the famous

the experience yeah death cap junior i do think that was one of my favorite stories you've told in the while good job oh well i'm glad it was a poisonous beef wellington very i mean you had me beef wellington and i know and ended in a mystery so my two favorite things dark stuff um thank you everybody so much for listening uh this may be my last episode depending on who broke into my house um i'm gonna go say hello surprise yeah i'm gonna go look around and uh blaze texting me during the recording I'm on the plane, so, like, clearly that was not to stop him. Well, I hope you make it. I wonder if any of it could be heard.

Like, I do wonder if you can hear it because it was pretty loud, but... I didn't hear anything. Yeah, maybe it's too quiet to hear, but... I think everything's all right. Enjoy your snowy day. I know it's snowing over there. Very jealous of you. Yeah.

It's gloomy. So jealous of you. I'll go hang out in the sun. Oh, it's sitting your mushroom garden. so far i've got one in the collection and uh i'm sure you're collecting them oh good for the trash of course oh okay i was like who are you linda i'm like for my compost and that's about it um all right thanks everyone and um we'll see you next week and Merry Christmas that's Merry Christmas why we drink