And That's Why We Drink - E467 Croissant Crop Circles and Thumb Drive Rick Rolls

Episode Date: January 25, 2026

It’s episode 467 and our brains have left the train station. This week Em takes us to the Czech Republic for the tale of the mysterious Houska Castle aka Hrad Houska and its terrifying “Hole to Hell”. Then Christine covers the unsolved case of the Oslo Plaza Woman aka Jennifer Fairgate and the many conspiracies behind who she was and what happened to her. And can anyone let us know what rockabilly music is? …and that’s why we drink! Photo Links:Houska CastleOslo Plaza Woman’s MealOslo Plaza Woman Sketch Catch our bonus Yappy Hour intermissions on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3L28lDw or subscribe on Patreon: http://patreon.com/ATWWDPodcast!___________________Shop my favorite bras and underwear at http://www.skims.com/drink #skimspartner Get 40% off your first Hungryroot box plus a free item in every box for life—visit https://hungryroot.com/DRINK and use code DRINK. Join the loyalty program for renters and earn points on rent and mortgage payments to redeem toward flights, hotels, Amazon.com, Lyft rides, and more at https://joinbilt.com/drink promo code DRINK. Get Boxie at https://boxiecat.com/DRINK and enjoy 30% off with code DRINK. Go to https://helixsleep.com/drink for 20% off sitewide, exclusive for listeners of ATWWD. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On game day, pain can hit hard and fast, like the headache you get when your favorite team and your fantasy team both lose. When pain comes to play, call an audible with Advil plus acetaminopin and get long-lasting dual-action pain relief for up to eight hours. Tackle your tough pain two ways with Advil plus acetaminephim. Advil, the official pain relief partner of the NFL. Ask your pharmacist at this product's rate for you. Always read and follow the label. I'm not feeling all that right today. I'm not feeling 100%.

I was about to suggest you go back and lay on it. Without me telling you anything about the fact that I'm talking about a mattress right now, go back and lay on it. It sounds very silly. But you know what? Go back and lay on your helix, that is. Helix. Go back and lay on it.

The only thing that got me three last night was sleeping on my helix mattress because my neck up is not kind to me today. But my back feels incredible. I slept deeply. It was wonderful. Leona got her big girl bed from Santa and I finally built it now that Blaze is feeling better

and I may or may not have bought her the Helix Kids mattress and it's flippable so on one side it's like ages two to seven or whatever and then on the other side it's more firm and it's like for older kids. It's amazing and she slept on it a couple nights now and she woke up and said I love that she doesn't really understand what a mattress is

but she's like I love my bed. She's sprawled out like she can sleep sideways and oh she loves that thing. I mean Leona apprish. And when in doubt, go back and lay on it. Go to helixleof.com slash drink. Go to helixleep.com slash drink for 20% off sitewide. That's helixleksleep.com slash drink for 20% off sitewide. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know that we sent you.

Helixleck sleep.com slash drink. What I'll say is go back and lay on it. Go back and lay on it. You know what I'm saying? That's my advice for everyone today. And by it, I mean, your bed, your mattress. a flat surface, if you will, anywhere that you can just rest. And maybe not even a flat surface if you are someone that has a dog or children and the

mattress just has stuff on it all the time. I thought you were going to say SVT. And I was like, sure, go upside down if you must. It's so useful. It's so useful. Yeah, you could lay down however you want. It's none of my business. But Em isn't feeling well.

I do say that to everybody, except I don't mean it to you because we do have to do an episode. But like maybe you can lay down after the episode. Isn't that nice? I do have plans to lay down. I always have plans to lay down. But we're okay. We're fine. This is like so annoying.

This is the cold that just won't ever end. So it's just very long and dragged out, which I kind of appreciate in some ways because for like three days in a row, it's only one symptom at a time instead of feeling like I got hit by a truck. Hello, excuse me. Just right over here, just a quick nose run. My throat was killing me for like three days. And I was like, oh, when this is over, at least like no other symptoms are showing up. And then all of a sudden the stupid nose thing happens.

So anyway, how are you feeling? Are you in good health, Christine? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, no. I mean, no, actively I'm not, but I'm fine right now. Like, I'm fine. I'm feeling good. I think I'm, my blood test results are like all over the place. But I'm feeling good today. Thank you for asking. I, yeah, I'm feeling like, you know, in tune. I'm feeling the opposite of whatever you're feeling probably. Sure. I think it's like maybe we feed off each other's energy. It's like, I can't do this. I just siphon it. No, I meant like, I'm not feeling it. So you're going to have to double up today. Oh, I see. Yeah, I fill in the blanks. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. We kind of like contrast each other in that, like overcompensate, you know. Yeah, but I do. I also like the theory that you're just siphoning my energy. That's interesting. That's fun too. I wish I knew how to do that because I would do it a lot more often. I do like that that was your first thought. I'm like, ooh, what does that mean? oh gosh okay uh yeah hi why do you drink this week is it because you're not able to function very well um no i mean i i that could be it but i i don't really have a reason why i drink right now i've just

been like so busy i feel like i have not been doing lay down i told you now i've just been running around a lot and so i i've just i maybe that's why i need to why i know that's what i'm saying um No, I've been here and there and over and yonder and up and hither and, you know, all that. Typical, typical me. What about you? Classic jet set up. Classic busy body bumblebee. Have you been more hither or yonder these days?

Which where you've been going? I've been more right hither because it is cold as fuck. It is dreary. It is cold. It is the weather's cranky. But, you know, it's okay. I drove myself to therapy today. oh, I got myself this.

A Big Bee, iced coffee. It is... I love that. It's called Big Bee. And like as if it's someone's last name, but the logo is a Big Bee. I love that.

You didn't... Their headquarters are like up the street from... I never clocked that at some of the time. You said Big Bee, and then you showed me a big ass bee on the cuff, and I went, oh, nice. That is something that, like, Leona would immediately clock and I'd go,

wow, I'm the dumbest person alive, and now you've clocked it. I feel the same way. Sorry, didn't mean it. You're going to... Yeah, it's a Big Bee. I get it now. Okay.

Wow, good, good job. I've only lived here five years. Yeah, yeah, it's good. It's good. What did you get at Big V? What's in that cup? I'm telling you, something called like a teddy bear or something. And I was like, sure, caramel and chocolate and something.

Bring it on. Great. You know? Sugar right up. Great. Big B. Sugar me up, Big B. Well, I had, we had neighbors. stopped by yesterday and we I just made small talk with them I live in an area where the neighbors

just kind of approach you and start talking and um one that was this guy who he said that he really liked rockabilly music and I was like I don't think I've ever really sat and listened to rockabilly music and I did mean it genuinely but I also didn't really think anything was going to come from it but I said like oh do you like have any suggestions like I've never listened to it like what's something I should start with and I thought he was going to like throw me a name and and I could check it out on my own. But yesterday I came home and there was a thumb drive on my door. And he gave me like a whole list.

Oh, he's been waiting for the likes of you, my friend, someone to ask. He's dad aged. He's dad aged. You be careful with those dads. You ask them one question about a train and suddenly your stepdad has booked you a tour of the local train yard and you're like, I mean, thanks. Actually, it wasn't a train yard. That would have been way cooler. My stepdad booked me one of the old water treatment plant tours.

And I was like... And did you have fun? Cool. I haven't done it yet. Oh, well, that's a nice little mystery for everybody, isn't it? So anyway, just what I'm saying is this is a cautionary tale on both our parts. Like, I mean, they're both nice things, but it's sort of like, just be aware that there's a risk of like activity or like obligation.

Yeah, I really thought he was just going to say a band name and then I could listen to it. And then you could Spotify like a few seconds. Yeah. Yeah. Instead, I got a whole thumb drive. Also, like, don't give people, don't give strangers hard drives, you know? Oh. I mean, I guess he's a dad age.

But I just feel like, why people shouldn't be giving any other people that they don't know, like, something to put in their computer? I guess that is the true crime host in you. But yes, now that you're saying it that way, I understand. It's also like the, like, the neighbor who's like hypervigilant. And I'm like, don't, why are you giving me that? I don't know. Maybe not hypervigilant. I mean, I immediately put it in my computer.

Don't get me wrong. I just like the mystery of a thumb drive feels like the wrong place to share rockabilly music. But what do I know? I would argue in 2026. it's exactly the right place because if he could give me a CD, he would have. As I said it, I realized incorrect, yeah. There is right down the lane. There is a horror movie called Disturbia starring Shailabuff back when we were in high school.

I remember that came out, yeah. It was about like a homicidal neighbor and like Shai Lov was onto him and the guy did not like that Shail was on to him and then eventually Spirol about tries to kill Shailabuff. And then in the background you hear, I don't know what Rockaville is. Don't mail me a hard drive. This is not an invitation for anyone to mail me a fucking hard drive. Well, I'm saying that to defend your theory that like, yeah, in 2026, the move would be spreading a virus or a track or something on my computer.

It's just kind of weird. Yeah, it just feels weird to be like, put this in your computer. I see where you're heading. And it's in a Ziploc bag. Like, I don't know. It just, I get it. Like, this is something like my stepdad would do. So I'm not saying it's anything menacing.

It's just like if you pull out a little bit, you're right. It's like a true crime. Like, huh, how weird. Someone dropped off a. this would be an easy way to get me i'll tell you that right because i'm going to do it and if i do go missing and all of a sudden i there are some weird cryptic messages coming out of my instagram saying that like i was really into like western swing you'll know maybe or you've just gotten really into rockabilly and it's taken you on a journey a musical journey that you could

never have expected maybe i anyway i'm i'm very excited i thought it was very sweet and neighborly that's a wonderful way reason to drink i love a nice neighbor and by the way my And my neighbors are lovely and I've given me all sorts things. So I'm not saying I don't take gifts from people. I actively do. No, I just like to, I just like to critique from afar. No, it's classic Christine, I think, to know better when it's not you. But that's also very me too where I'm like, you shouldn't do that.

But the second that's going to happen to me. Oh, absolutely. But let's do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll do it. 100%. Yeah. No, totally get where you're coming from.

So. I can't wait to hear about it, though. I, you know, I hope I like it because it'd be really, I'd feel bad for him if he's spend all the time finding exactly the right songs and putting them on a thumb drive just for me to like not like it you know so maybe he just has like a bunch of thumb drives and anyone anytime somebody says it he's like here you go now that's exactly the way yeah maybe it did take him a day to do it right so like maybe not yeah and also i'm like did he i hope he had a thumb drive just laying around like what if he went on bought a thumb drive and now he's spent money i like i really that's a him

problem seriously i know then we're getting into like okay true crime's coming back why is why are we doing this like just email a person you know Or just write it down. I just, I wonder how much effort got put into it. And then I, and so I really feel like I need to sit down and listen to this. Like old school listen to the whole song.

I hope you listen to this and is like spiraling out about the way that I'm behaving, like reacting towards him. I don't mean it personally, I promise. I just like to, you know, devil's advocate sometimes. I think it's,

I think, I hope there's at least one song that really sparked something in me. So that way, when I do speak to him, if I don't like any of the others, I can at least stick to this one song, you know? Yeah,

Yeah, yeah. Or, oh, I like that one, kind of. So then I moved on to other artists and I like this one. A sitcom episode, though, like a sitcom trope. You have to be so careful because if you're like, oh, yeah, it was all really good. Then he's going to be like, great, there's a concert this weekend. Like, you have to be so careful with this. Like, you have to play your cards really carefully.

And if you're listening to this neighbor, neighbor Greg or whatever your name is. He's already bought the tickets. Oh, no. Oh, my God. I'm so sorry he's crying on. He's slowly bringing the cursor away from purchase now. But the tickets were like on some sort of like, he had to like hard. Put them on a, he was going to put them in another hard drive.

I don't know. He printed them out and gave me a hard map quest. Anyway, wish me luck on my Rockabilly journey. And by the way, if any of you or your stepdad's or dads or uncles or like insanely older brothers have some interest in Rockabilly and know what you're talking about, please leave that in the comments. That way, I have something to talk about with him when he eventually asks how this went. You know what I'm saying?

Or any gendered person can probably be into Rockabilly, I assume. I don't know if that's the case. I'm working with stats here. I'm working with the likelihood. I wouldn't know. I wouldn't know. And I do actually wonder there is a ban that my stepdad loves. And I'm like, that's not Rockavilly, is it?

Because then I would have somebody perfect to send your way. Maybe we should just put that guy and Tim on speakerphone at the same time and just have them talk to each other through our phones. That'd be really neat. Okay. Like, it literally is saying Elvis Presley? I'm like, is there just Elvis Presley on that hard drive? He's like, you'll never believe what I've curated for you. And you know what? I don't even really know what Rockabilly is. Maybe I've listened to it a million fucking times.

That's what I'm saying. Like I don't understand what it is. It sounds fun. Like like, like boogie-woogie. I mean, how could you go wrong with that? Anyway, that's my journey this week. That's my assignment. Oh, you're going to love this shit. Doowop, Acapella. Oh, I love Duwop. Okay. I know you do. I know you do. I do. I do love doo-wob. That's probably one of my favorite. What if the first song is Sunshine, Lolley Paws. That song. Talk about someone that'll call. This is an elaborate prank that I pulled on you. But if you paid him to bring me a thumb drive just of that song. And I'd be like, Em, don't put the thumb drive in.

You never know what could be on there. And you fall right for my trap. Rick rolling me. Great. Yeah, that's the version of Rick rolling that we do, which is Leslie Gore. Yes. I don't have quite the same ring as Rick rolling. Well, now your turn.

Why on earth do you drink? And I swear to God, if you have a neighbor who's going to make you learn polka or something, that would be very funny. I have all sorts of fun neighbors with all sorts of fun plots and plans. I wouldn't be surprised. But why do I drink? Oh, well, after we had, so we recorded a listener's episode yesterday that's coming out soon. I guess, yeah, when will I come out?

Probably like right around the time. Well, it'll come out February 1st because it was our. Yeah, sorry. I mean, like in comparison to this episode. Oh, I see. I think next week. Okay. So it was really fun.

I won't say too much about it because. Oh, no, it comes. Yeah, it comes out on Sunday. on our oh yeah the first so the week after this episode yeah so um i won't get to into too much detail but we were we and i know people don't necessarily love all the guest episodes but we're just having so much fun with the people that have come on and like we had um alisa kelly on who is she's a great she's a great astrologer um just really cool person and she brought our birth charts and did some like like reading and we like read um birthday related uh uh uh uh

listener stories. It was really fun, but I just was like kind of shook by the explanations. And it was like pretty brief like that discussion in general. But like explaining your Virgo rising and like my Aquarius. I mean, I was so like taken aback because she literally like quoted some of the things that you and I do. Like at one point she's like basically Christine's attitude is like she doesn't say attitude. I say attitude is like this is really important. Nothing matters. Like nothing matters. and you have to be serious about that. And like there's like a whole in joke in our Gio's trio about how often I say nothing matters. And it was just like was such like a whoa moment. And then I felt like all day yesterday and today, I've been having a lot of synchronicities, like really weird ones. And yeah. And then oh, and then I went to like research a story.

I picked it, but I didn't know the details of it. And I go to read the story. And the first bullet points are June 3rd. in Norway. And like that was the first story we read was like, oh yeah, a birthday story in Norway. It's just weird. I don't know. Anyway, it doesn't really matter, but I'm, I'm on the lookout for synchronicity. So today we can see if, uh, if any pop up on the hunt. Let me know if you find any rockabilly in your Kentucky town later. Yeah, I mean, that'll be the least synchronistic thing ever. That'll just be like, oh, of course, you know.

Well, I got some, um, other things to divulge to you. Uh, as we, go through my story. So maybe if any of those sound particularly odd, we'll manifest that being what the synchronicities are later. Something like that. I said in a lot of words and I don't even know. I don't know what you said, but I love it. I think I knew what I meant.

Anyone else? I thought I did and then by the end I thought, I think maybe I went the wrong way. Like I took a left turn. I hear you. I think my brain also halfway through went, hmm. But I also think you said divulge and I went,

divulge. That's a great word. And then I forgot where we were going, you know? And then I thought, I'm the devulgee. And then I went, that's not anything. I was just having a whole train of thought over here. I think my brain is not here today. She has checked out.

Yeah, I'm supposed to be overcompensating. Left the train station. She's left the station. Left the train station. Specifically. Anywhere else, she's still there. But the train station, she's gone. Okay.

So I was planning on originally, I told you last week, I have an alien abduction story I've been doing for you. I plan on that being this week, but then, as you know, how this goes, right when I thought I was done, I found some stuff documentary-wise that I would like to watch before I officially finish the notes. So the aliens getting pushed back again. Sorry, everyone. Classic.

All right. Skims wants to hear my personal experience, ready? Mm-hmm. I do. You hear that? You know, I did, and she sounded snappy. Snappy, but so soft. A little X-rated, R-rated, PG-13-rated ASMR.

We are talking about skims today. They just kind of get, like, the comfort thing, I think, but also, like, you feel cute when you wear it, you know? It's like a good combo, which I feel like is very difficult to find. As you can hear from my PG-13 ASMR. I do wear it. Yeah, it's very, very cute. They have their lightweight cotton-rooshed back hipster, and they also have a good. It's very cute.

They have their skims cotton jersey full brief, which love something cozy. I feel like that one looks cute and comfy. It's very sweet overrides. Yeah, some full briefs in the mix, you know, for that kind of night. Yeah, no, we're big fans. I have used them for many a holiday gift, so thank you, Skims. And you could shop our favorite bras and underwear at skims.com. After you placed your order, be sure to let them know we sent you.

Select podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the drop-down menu that follows. And if you're looking for the perfect gift for your Valentine's or for me, the Skims Valentine's shop is now open. Oh, I'm so hungry and I don't know what I'm going to eat tonight. Just kidding, I do, because we have hungry root in moments like today where I'm not feeling so good. I really don't want to have to think about what it is that I'm going to make for myself. And all the ingredients are here. They plan it all for you. And then they also send like a custom cart to like they have figured out pretty quickly that we don't have a lot of time in this house. Who does? and like Blaze was like oh thanks for buying like bagels and stuff and I was like I didn't do that

Hungaroo just sent them and was like you'll probably need these this week we ate them every morning for a few days and we're like thank God it I mean I don't know what I would have done but it's like they know you you know and then they send you a little shopping cart and they're like we got it they know us they know us they know me they know what I want to eat and today it's just soup but it's okay they know me um no hungry root is incredible they hold all their food to the highest standards and they make it incredibly easy to get going and actually stick with your New Year's resolutions if you have one, if you're all about healthy eating. They're just very wonderful. Yes, you are going to love Hungry Root as much as we do. For a limited time, get 40% off your first box plus get a free item in every box for life. Go to Hungarroot.com slash drink and use code drink. That's Hungryroot.com

slash drink code drink to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. You know what I don't like about the word anything? is that when people have that one specific British accent, they say anything. Oh, it drives me. No, I think that's a lot of time, yes, but also that's how my friend taught me to clock an accent when someone was faking an American accent. Because Portia de Rossi in Arrested Development says anything. And it's like that immediately, I'm like, oh, I hear it. I don't know why it gets me.

I don't know why that's like a, the opposite of like an ear candy for me. It's like ear. Ear poop. Ear broccoli. Yeah. Ear broccoli is a good one. I was going to say ear trash. Your poop is a wild one.

No, I, and there are so many things about those accents that I do enjoy, but anything really gets me. I think I. Anything. I actually like it. Oh, fuck. Well, anything. No, I don't. Oh, well, maybe in five minutes.

Remember though, I've never lived down the sundried tomatoes thing because that night. I made a sundried tomato dish. And it was so good. And Blaise was like the next day, I heard the episode and goes, what the fuck, Christy? Like,

you literally cooked this last night. I was like, I don't know. I think I just got like amped up about hating sunride tomatoes and forgot that I do kind of like them. I keep hoping that happens for me on a few foods. I'm like, I hope I'm talking a lot of big game and it's actually going to be delicious.

But there are some things I'll eat. And I'm just like, get the fuck away from me. And I'm like, that's gross. But the only place I, like, in a pasta fine.

But it's just not my thing. So, you know what, Blaze, I stand by it. Fuck, fuck sundried tomatoes. That was a momentary lapse. That was a, man, that was a crazy day. That was also like three years ago. So everyone's like, what are you even talking about? Oh, yeah, well.

I think about it all the time. I'm like, people are out there thinking I hate sun dried tomatoes and I eat them regularly. You did have that moment for a second too, I think with croissants, didn't you? A moment, a lifetime. No, no, no. I think there was a moment where you hate, you've regularly openly hated croissants. But I think there was like one croissant that you like didn't actually. hate, right? You know, when I was pregnant with Leona, that was my big secret. Yeah. Oh, did I just

spill it? Sorry. No, I spilled it all over my bed and the crumbs went everywhere. I've ate, so I ate croissants during that pregnancy and I remember being like, it's time for me to come clean. And people, some people in my family were like, oh my God. Like, they were actually like very shocked and, I mean, that's how I would expect people to be if all of a sudden I start eating like cilantro or something. Yeah, it feels like really shocking. You're like, wait, my body is like, has been lying to me or it's lying now, I don't know. Worst thing about Allison is that her fair food is croissants, and she tries to be a bed and a couch eater,

specifically with the croissons. And I'm like, yeah, same. Have a line, you know. She and I have this very, no wonder we live together. She and I have very similar tendencies. Allison, man. She used to go get a reuben from the campus restaurant. Oh, she loves a reuben.

Oh, I know. and we would sit and split it and eat in our beds. And I'm like the amount of sauerkraut, we probably like dropped in our beds. If you had seen us back then it's really cringy. It's the fact that like she is, and I love her to death. She is the messiest eater when it comes to crumbs.

Like she's not like like sauces are fine, shockingly, but crumbs everywhere. I've seen her at a cafe not be able to wait when she got her croissant. And then she just stood there and ate the croissant. And when she left, there was clearly a spot where she had been standing

and then a ring of crumbs. She left like her own. imprint of her footprints. Like a crop circle. A croissant circle. A croissant circle. Now that's a new one. Well, so, um...

They are crummy, those things. She was just telling me that she's at her sister's house and her sister also is not for her eating on the couch, her specifically because of her history. Oh, right. She gets, she gets, she's listed. She's on the list. Yeah. And she's like, I'm fine.

I'm fine. I'm fine. As she's eating chocolate chips and then they felt, I watched, I'm watching. Chocolate chips, Allison. And then she's like sitting on one because she doesn't. know she dropped it and now it's melted into a couch and I'm like oh my god get up anyway if you um are in alison in the relationship just like me check the couch please oh yeah this is when i think like wow yeah there's some yeah there's some similarities there i have to i i would like

the next couch we get to be like some sort of like wipable surface like a like a plet or something um and just because of the crumbs i'm like it would be so much easier otherwise they're just getting smushed in there and you can't do anything with the fabric. Anyway, I just bought a light pink velvet couch, so how do you think that's going to go? I don't know what I'm thinking. I don't know how that's going to go.

But it sounds pretty. Thank you, it is, I think. It's very cozy. I spent five years trying to pick a couch for our downstairs and we just had this giant one that didn't fit properly from our old house and I finally picked one and it's like the kind where you can like lay fully down on it. But then I'm like, I don't ever want to get up.

So it's sort of like double-sided problems, but anyway. You're really trying to change out the bisexual stereotype of a green velvet furniture with the gold trim. I got rid of them. Why? I can't stand it anymore. People cute. I'm over this already. I'm like, I've moved.

And then I keep being like, why do I just suddenly not like the things that I used to like? And I'm like, well, it's been five years. I guess so, yeah. It's not that like, it's like half a decade, you know? So I feel like a lot of things that were like in that I thought were like really cool. and timeless. No, I'm like, eh. As a, as a dark green loyalist, though, those were good purchases. I don't care that they were a stereotype that you were fully fulfilling. They were beautiful. I got kind of overwhelmed by gold accents. I got overwhelmed. You know what I'm saying? Like,

I don't know. There are just certain things where they would just annoy me. And they were never quite comfortable. I don't love the gold, but I did love that. No. And I think it's just, it wasn't me. Also, like, they were so gross because I just feel like Leona would just like run in the the room with her hands and just like anyway someone wanted them off the internet of facebook marketplace or whatever so it's their problem now it's their lesbian problem now or whatever it was their bisexual problem they're big fat lesbian issues yeah they're rockabilly lesbian issue now okay well anyway what were we talking about i was sorry i was trying to pitch forever ago that this is not the alien story i promised you oh the croissants story i'm so sorry

Wow, that was like one of the longest handings that we didn't realize was going, well, I didn't realize was going on until way too late. I love when we talk ourselves into such a circle spiral that we even were like, I lost track. Yeah, we have to start over at the beginning. 100%. Okay. So this is in, and I, tell me if I'm wrong, Czech Republic, is that still what it's called now? That's correct, yes. Czechoslovakia is not what it was. Okay. Sorry, my hair is literally, not that I'm making it better, but.

God, it's just like a nest up here. Okay. I like it. It looks like 90s like. Like grungy and gross and like I'm like a bad boy. Not grungy. No, no. Like like like um like just like out of the like flip your hair out of the way, you know.

Thank you. I don't agree. Grungy and clean. Grungy and clean. Thank you. I need a cutter. Anyway. This is in the Czech Republic.

this is 30 miles from Prague. Oh, I know what I was doing. Oh, the aliens. Nope, even further back. I was trying to find the person who suggested this. Because if I said anything, oh, God, it became a hole. Oh, my God. Wow, we just have, 17 years ago.

Isn't that crazy? We need to get our shit together, dude. So this is from Alexi. Okay. Shout out Alexi. Oh, my God. Shout out Alexi. And this is the, so sorry here.

giving it a shot. Holska Castle. It is also sometimes... It's also sometimes called the Gradd Holska. But I'm going hosta castle. Now I'm out of my element. I have no idea, but it sounds good. Okay.

I'm going to go with Hoska Castle. So it's 30 miles from Prague. It is in the middle of deep, heavy woods. Like in a whole, full whole forest. I love this. Surrounded by mountains. It's kind of swampy. Just imagine like the world's greatest Renaissance LARPing Hobbit Quest.

Right. Like it feels like an actual fairy tale castle. Like it's out in the middle of nowhere, like in a far, far away. Yeah. Well, yes. That's a good place to start. 30 minutes from Prague. But still.

I've been to Prague. I don't know if I've been to this castle though. I was like 16 and very much calcic. What were you doing in Prague? We've talked about this because I bought that shirt that you wanted. said check me out. Yes. And I owned it for years.

And then when I came home, like, after moving to L.A. to look for it in my closet, I'd, like, donated it because I was going to show it to you. Oh, I love that. But, yeah, I had to check me out shirt. But yeah, I went there in high school. So stupid long story. But I don't, I was, I was 16 and listened to Fall Boy on my iPod Nano like the whole time.

So I wasn't paying much attention to, like, what we were doing. Yeah. It's the, it's wasted on the youth every time. It is, isn't it? It's like embarrassing. Like I wish I knew, but I've heard of it, certainly. That's why I'm doing the stupid 50 States thing. I probably would be done by now, but I have to go back and re-enjoy places I didn't give a shit about one.

But I think that's integrity. You know what I'm saying? Thank you. I appreciate that because I'm really struggling over here. My mom and I are doing a trip soon to Jersey where I was literally fucking born there. I've been to Jersey, but I don't have like any. Yeah, yeah, you've been there. But I don't have any like solid memories.

In fact, it's the first place you ever went, which is pretty incredible. Well, I don't know. Actually, the best part is that the memory I'm going to be making theirs, we're going to go to the house, my first, the first house I had, and we're going to go do a little knocking on the door and see if we can take a look around. I know. That's cool. I love that shit.

And they'll probably say no, but whatever. It worked last time, like two years ago. I knocked on a childhood door and people let me in, so. Maybe I was going to say a child's door. I was like, well, certainly don't do that. Please. No. But what?

Wait, which door did you knock on? Two years ago. Whenever we were in Sleepy Hollow, whenever that was. Oh. I remember I stayed behind to hang out with my family. We did one of my dad's childhood houses. Oh, wow.

And they said, did they say yes? Oh, yeah. They showed us a thing. Oh, nice. But it was actually really funny because we, we were just going to drive by and my aunt was going to show us it. And it would just be like, oh, there it is. But we happened to see the people coming home in that exact moment, like,

pulling up in the driveway. And I was like, I'm going to say something. I'm going to say something. And then we were... Now that's fate, I think. And I was like, hi, we just... I was pointing out my aunt and I was like, she used to live here when she was a kid.

And they literally went, Tracy? No. And they were like, we still get your mail. And she's like... No. And she hasn't lived there in like 40 years and they still get her fucking male. I feel like I would know like at least six residents who I've never heard of these people except for like every now and then I get a letter and I go,

this must be a really old person who, like tenant or somebody. Yeah. And I would be like, Greg? I have told previous owners that I've passed that lived here. I'm like, if you ever want to come in and see what we've done with the place from our welcome to. But one of them still gets their mail sent here and used to be a producer at MTV. And clearly they hadn't changed the mail address in time. And they're doing something or they were doing something with the Oscars because we literally started getting envelopes that were like confidential.

And it said like for your consideration. And I was like, fun. Do I have the fucking nominations in my house? And I never. But how many, but how many, how many times do you think that happens in L.A.? Where they're sent to like, I know. Because people move all the time out there. I'm like, I bet that happens a lot.

I know. I still, we still have it. And I was afraid like she might need it and I'd have to mail it. And she couldn't, there couldn't be a big rip through it. And me like, no, no, not at that point. So I never touched it. But the Oscars have come and pass. And she never reached out.

So I kind of just want to open it and see what I have in my house. But that's still a federal crime. So I'm not going to say. anything else. But that's still a federal crime that I've now discussed publicly. I want to. I never said I will. The end. Okay. Hey, remember we're in the Czech Republic. So, we're in the forest. We're talking about a castle. The very first known structure in this area, by the way, goes all the way back to like the 9th century. Yeah, old, old, old. And even before that, there's evidence in the area that people were around, literally since the beginning of time,

there's like at the very least since the sixth century, pre-sixth century. The beginning of time. Like six-century. I think the word I saw in a few sources was sense antiquity, like just a vague sense. I love phrases like that. I know. It's like even you don't know, really. Yeah, yeah, come on, admit it.

So, but the first known structure was in the ninth century. What we care about is getting all the way to the late 1200s, because that's when the castle itself was built here for the first time. It was the other structure's gone. So I want to describe this castle to you so it makes sense because architecturally I think it might be a little odd and it is important to the story. So the castle, it looks like a square, like a square building, but the inside of it is hollow where there's a courtyard. So it's almost as if it's like an inverse wraparound courtyard. Does that make sense?

Yes. Okay, perfect. And I do also want to mention because just for the eerie symbolism of it all, it is out in the middle of the woods, but it's sitting on a cliff and this cliff happens to be made of limestone. Oh, spooky. And limestone is notoriously haunted grounds. It's a, it's an amplifier. 100%. Thank you.

I would have not remembered that word. So it is on a limestone cliff. It is this big square, but also. hollow on the inside castle that gives it an inside a built around courtyard. And I also want to say a fun fact that this castle is one of the best preserved castles of its time and it is probably one of the oldest surviving castles in the country. It was likely built because it was so old and long ago we have to kind of just go off of what we know history-wise.

It was likely built for the current king at the time. And he said he wanted to turn this into basically, although a castle really just like an administrative office for royal properties. It was kind of boring. I know. Momped. And the castle was occupied by several different noble families for centuries, like all the way through the 1700s until the castle kind of fell into disrepair.

So from the 1,200s to the 1700s, noble people are living there nonstop. But there's a few things, again, about the construction that I would like to point out that are very odd about this castle. So one of the first real things. things people noticed about this castle being built at all was why does this castle exist? Why is it out here in the middle of fucking nowhere in the woods? We're calling it an administrative office and 30 miles from a major city. In the 200s, when 30 miles from a major city is very far away.

In the woods and not like an easy path. Yeah. And like why would you build an administrative office where in theory people are going to be working in and out of there in a forest and swamp as well. Like, it could have been built much closer with much more access. I guess if you are building like an HR office, you're kind of like, put them in the swamp, you know? Yeah, I guess the swamp was like the industrial park of the 1200s, maybe.

There you go. Yeah, see? The industrial park, yeah. But then also the question is, why wouldn't you just build a building? Why is this thing a castle? Like, why is this a full fortified defensive structure? Right. And yet it is built so far away that there are no trade routes anywhere nearby.

So that doesn't make sense. It's not a good area for hunting, so it's hard to get food. This place didn't have a water source. And then there were like functionally things missing in its construction, including a kitchen, some staircases were missing. It just seemed that there was, it's very odd. And on top of that, there was, like the no trade routes thing, there was no strategic importance for this being out all the way out in the essentially boonies. It had no functional use because it had no kitchen, no way of making food, no water.

You couldn't get to certain areas easily throughout the castle. So in some ways, it felt like this was more of like a decoy safe house. Right. If something feels off, it's like the uncanny valley castle. Yeah. Yes. Not really quite shaping up. Even people in town were like, you built a whole ass castle.

How expensive was that? and you built it seemingly for no reason because who's going to even go out here unless they have to. It feels like a, like intentionally isolated. So the locals were very curious as well. So I'm sure that also helped spark conversations about this place

and built up rumors and things like that. And the thing that they found, the weirdest was that all of the defensive walls, which would usually be on the exterior of a castle, like to have any fortifications, anything that's going to keep people out, none of that was on the outside of the castle. It was all on the inside facing the courtyard.

Don't say that. Ew. Facing the courtyard. So like facing inward? Yes. They were... Ew! Like to keep saying it in?

As if, this is a quote, as if the castle had not been built to keep an enemy outside, but rather to keep something inside from getting out. Yucco. If you would like to Google the castle, this would be a good time just so you can see what I'm talking about about the yard. You know, I actually was Google.

I wasn't Googling. I was going through my old photos to see if I had been there before. I went to the Prague Castle, which I think I'm assuming is a different thing. I think so. And I went to the national theater. So, no. And then I took a bunch of pictures of like strangers wearing camouflage. So I think that I was not in the right head space to be taking pictures of the,

even if I did go there. Okay, let me Google it. It's H-O-U-S-K-A. Oh, yeah. This is, oh, no, I've not been here. I think I would remember this. This is the drone shot. Yeah, so you can see that the inside is completely hollow and protected with fortified walls for no reason.

And then the front of the castle or like the exterior part of it doesn't look like it's trying to protect itself from anything. Like there's no moat. There's no tower. No. Let me send you this picture because like imagine, I mean, I know you've seen it, but imagine like building this way back in the day not knowing what it looks like. And then now we have like drones and can get photos like this. I know. just sent you.

I, like talk about vision, you know, before we had. Truly. The fact that they were able to build something like that and not know how it would look. Yeah. Insane. But so, yeah, it looks like this. Super weird. Super weird.

So now the thought is this thing, it was built around something to keep it from escaping. That's not great. Okay. Another thing that was odd about it, which this is, even before a castle was there, people were already aware of this very odd part of that area of the woods, which is that on this cliff top made of limestone, there was a crack in the rock that was known to be so deep, it was essentially a bottomless pit.

You could never fill it. And nobody knows how the hole or the crack got there, but people would claim at night that in that area, they would see otherworldly winged beings, crawling out of the hole and taking off and flying through the woods. I see. I see. So it became known by the locals.

Do not go near this hole, especially alone, especially at night. The creatures might hurt you. They might want to scare you. They might be from hell itself. But so it was just terrorizing this village because there were like, fucking demons are crawling out of this random hole that cannot be filled no matter what we do. Yeesh. The pit became known as the hole to hell.

Oh. It's literally been written about since the like the 1500s. Like people were talking about this. At least the 1500s. That's, I think, one of the first documentations I at least saw of it. But it was called the Holt to Hell. It was thought to be a gateway or portal for demons to escape hell and crawl back to Earth. Okay.

And when the castle was built, or right before the castle was built, the locals were trying to fill this hole. They were like, this sucks. Like, I really want these demons. to stop coming out and I'm so scared. So they would start trying to put rocks down there and fill it up as much as they could. But no matter how much an entire village worth of rock holders could get up there and put big ass rocks down there, it would not only never fill up, but they still would never even hear the rocks at the ground.

Creepy. It would just go and go and go and go. Keep in mind, I do want to say from a modern mindset, and I feel like someone could have said this back then too, they were trying to drop a rock. at the top of a cliff and then it just keeps going down it could have been a crevice all the way down hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of feet.

I was going to say that drone shot really gives you an idea like how elevated this place is or like how out there, up there. If we were starting on like my lawn and there was a hole that deep, I'd go, where the fuck is this going? But if you're starting on a cliff, you are already so elevated,

you have to assume that something's going to fall for a long time when you throw it down there. Whatever. Yeah, it's not a good sign. So anyway, they assumed it was hell. And the mystery endless hole kind of, which insert dirty joke there, it had so much intrigue throughout the town that some stories say king, some say Duke, but a nobleman, I'll say, who was living there at the time,

he was so determined to figure out where the fuck this hole ended that he would go to the prisoners on death row in the area and he would offer them full pardons if they would be agree to be lowered down and report back what they saw oh my god i thought he was just gonna drop them down and see if he and i was like that's insane pardon if i can kill you for what okay okay okay so so but still like still problematic i yes obviously but like okay so you're lowering and also like it wasn't like it wasn't a uh of this century modern construction crane it was literally a piece of freight ass rope Or a modern death row where we would know even like what this person did. Yeah. Yeah. Like this is alarming.

Okay. So he wants to lower them down in some sort of contraption, I imagine. I literally think it's a lasso held by multiple people and you just hope that they don't get tired and drop you. And you're like, well, it's just a guy from death row. Don't worry about it. We accidentally let go. I mean, what the hell? This is a terrible idea.

Well, one prisoner agreed. He was like, I'll give a shot. And then I say, I'll do it. Right. That's what I meant in the beginning where I'm like, what a terrible idea. sign me up. If I were on death row, I don't know. Maybe I would do it.

I'd do it. Yeah. And so he was lowered down and they lowered him further and further and further and further and further. And it was just silent the whole time. And then he untied the rope and was like, catch me if you can. Yeah. And I'm going to not say anything. That's actually, I wonder if that was their thought.

Like if they lowered me far enough, I could probably just cut this fucking road. That would be. Let me down there. And then like if it really is a bottomless pit, they're like, okay, any day now I can fucking cut this rope, hurry up. Yeah, oh God. Oh God. Yeah. Okay, so they're lowering him. They don't hear anything. They don't hear anything. It's just silent for a long time. And then all of a sudden, they hear him screaming. No. And they're like trying to pull him up. Imagine the rope burn on your hands, trying to pull a grown man up, hundreds of feet.

They pull him back up. And when he came up, his hair had gone white and he had aged 30 years. What? What? Apparently he then couldn't even get out what he saw, but he went full-blown. Looney Tunes and died 24 hours later. What in the world? That's the story from literally 800 years ago. So I'm sure. I was going to say what century was this? Okay.

I just want to check how. Yeah. It's probably not totally accurate. But when was this? The 12th century was in? 13th century. The late 1,200s. Okay.

So other prisoners were like, what the fuck? But then I guess they still wanted to see if they could also. have a full part and so they were willing to get down there too and I guess the same thing kept happening over and over again these people kept coming back terrorized with white hair and stop putting people down there so after this uh the king slash duke whoever was in charge here he was like this is nuts we have to do something about this and covering it up with rocks isn't working because no rocks will fill it up so we're just going to put metal slabs across it and just seal it like put a lid on it And that's what I would do, I think, if I were trying to solve this, I'd be like, just put a big board over it and we'll pretend it never existed.

And you think like someone from the 12th hundreds, but also he thinks like someone from the 21st century. He's ahead of his time, I say, about this random man who probably was not ahead of his time. It's either an insult to compliment or pretty neutral. I don't know. You take that however you want. Time is cyclical, you know, who knows? You know what? Maybe you were him. We could let's get there. Let's go there. Could be. I was a king for sure. Some sort of royalty. He had them sealed up with the heavy slabs. And then they built a fucking castle around it.

And specifically on these heavy slabs, they built a chapel on top to keep any spirits that might have been able to escape through the heavy slabs. Have you tried putting God on it? Thank you. And also, like, why are we acting like, I mean, I guess back then, I guess they thought demons would be like physical creatures

because spiritually you can just like float through that metal slab. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, but I guess if they're winged creatures, and stuff, you know. Which I do wonder. And also, like, maybe that's symbolic too, right? Like, you seal it, even if it's just symbolically sealing it and putting a church over it, like you're saying, you shall not pass. It's intention setting.

Yeah. Yeah. That's beautiful. Yeah. So they put a chapel directly on top. They also honored the chapel by naming it after Archangel Michael, who I guess this is a quote, because I'm not in the biblical mindset. But apparently, for those who are like me and don't know, Archangel Michael, quote, raised God's arm. me against Lucifer's fallen angels.

So he felt very apropos to be the spokesperson of this chapel. He's like the head head honcho angel. Yes. They also painted a bunch of murals and frescoes in the chapel and you would think like, oh, biblical characters to like really like seal this thing off as like, don't come here

demons. But for some reason the paintings were more so warnings of the creatures that were in the pit below. So they're like no more. No, don't come in here. You don't want to open this up. Yeah, yeah. I think it was a warning of like, this is what was once here. So don't. That feels tempting. Like, that feels like you're just tempting people.

I, I at least love that there's a chapel where the pictures are interesting now, instead of it just being like a bunch of little naked babies and ladies and all that. I don't know, man, you got to go to Europe. There have some interesting art in these old ass cats. Like, you look around and you're like, that shouldn't be seen probably by anybody. I don't know. There's some weird shit over there, especially from that long ago. And they're like, here. is us decapitating it. Oh, so you're like, what the fuck? Why would you put that on the wall?

Maybe I do need to go to church. Hang on a second. You're maybe right. Not church. Okay, maybe not church, but like in like... In the off hours just to look up with the sky. Structures. Like royal structures. No, I mean, like, not just in churches. I mean, is what I meant to say. Like... Gotcha.

In these old places. So maybe it was just the king's aesthetic. He's like, I'm just into the demon, you know. Do you have a favorite place? Over there? Like a favorite, like, like a thing. you saw that was super like messed up like a decapitated horse well you know that's probably something i've just conjured in my mind which is even worse but um i think my favorite place that i went recently was this again i don't even know where the hell it was because we went to so many places

but it was this it was a specific museum for the horses of that castle okay interesting so they had like all these like old like implements and things and like saddles and things that like the royals would use with and then like all they had honored all the horses and they put all their names underneath and like had and then one was like taxidermied because it was like the king's favorite horse and then it showed you how the little kids were ridden around in little horse drawn carts it was just like there's a whole museum for the horses that sounds really nice i would go to that it's kind of cool it's kind of cool it's just and christine i would anyway i mean i don't even remember where it is so it's not very helpful so good luck okay um check my facebook photos it's probably there somewhere

well um so yeah this thing did not this chapel did not have the images i would expect which again were um just little naked babies or something um instead it had murals of like satan and dragons and pagan references and uh a fan favorite seems to be a left-handed yuck female yuck half human yuck centaur Whoa, sexy. Triple threat. Triple evil, I suppose. Left-handed, lady, half human. Six, six, six.

Oh, my God. Exactly. Oh, I feel a sneeze coming. Oh, my God. That one really kicked me right in the face and then said, never mind. That one hurt me. I hope it did. It got my in the eye.

I was like, oh. My association. Okay, well, it's coming back. I'll let it out. I wish. But it just really rocked my world. Okay. So it feels odd to me, at least, that, because it's so out of what I would imagine, to paint those images when you should.

Fair enough. Like pagan stuff, I would never see it, like a church or something. I was thinking more just like the gruesome, like, this is vanquishing Satan or whatever. And it's like, just like weird bloody stuff. But yeah, I wouldn't expect to see like pagan or like centa. Like that just feels way off base for a church. Yeah. Yeah.

And also it feels a little like we're. I wouldn't want to jinx it and keep talking about this shit if I'm trying to keep it contained on the floor below me. Yeah, you're like, guess what's in there? Yeah. It's super kick-ass and dangerous. Well, I had nowhere else to put this, but I did want to throw this fun fact out that I only saw from one source and I don't know why this isn't talked about more because it was just so interesting that it's kind of just like how they even had the technology or the ability

to pull this off in the 1200s. There was one image on the wall of St. George killing a dragon with a sword. And it's basically he's. stabbing down into a dragon. So the sword is like just one Y-axis line pretty much. And apparently on St. George's Day, exactly, the sunlight from the beginning of the day to the end of the day moves through the window in a way where it perfectly traces the sword

slowly killing the dragon. What the fuck? How do you do that? Isn't that crazy? I mean Isn't that crazy? That's fucking crazy. That's just like a wild thing

to just like build into your administration building. That's a great point. Because like yeah like in Egypt and a lot of these cultures they did things like that for so long thousands of years they knew how to like use the sun in that way

but like this is just so random. And also maybe it's because the math and technology is just so beyond what I'm capable of but I would imagine you have to come up with that idea way before St. George's Day on the calendar hits. And then you have to trace the sun exactly the right way

or else now you have to wait a whole new St. George's Day. Oh my God, like the patience. I wonder if they had ways though, like because they were able to use, I mean, they had like calendars. Maybe they knew where the sun would fall on every day, a certain day of the year. I don't know. I don't know.

That, I thought that was so effing pool. I was like. They're like slowly over time stabbing into the dragon is like top tier. like Easter egg style Can never be done again Or if it can be why don't we do it? Remarkable Remarkable

So okay Anyway that that was kind of to catch you up up to the 1700s that There was this big fucking hole The entire town thinks that it's a gateway to hell They ended up building a chapel over it Inside of a castle Who built it again? It was

They thought his name was Oh we don't even know for sure No we think it was King Oticar the second of Bohemia. Oh, so we're not even really sure what's up. We think it might be that guy. Okay. And at least that's...

Was he kind of like a freak? Because I feel like... I don't know, maybe. Whoever this was, like had to be a little bit of a freak to be like... I agree. Like, pagan? I don't know. Make the sword move.

Like, what are you talking about, you know? Yeah. Or like, did he just hire someone who was like really committed to art, you know? It was like, finally I get to do my masterpiece. Yeah. He was like, why is that one drawing to him? so fucking long. It's like, no, no, no, you'll love it, I promise. We just have to wait another 3 to 65 days before I can confirm that it's ready. So, and so there was the gateway to hell. They built a castle around it, but then things got even

shadier on top of the fact that everyone knew there was a bottomless pit that demons apparently come out of. And now this castle is here. And people who were unaware of that first story are now wondering why this weird safe house administration office would be built in the forest. You're like barbers dry sanding it. You're like drawing attention to it. Yes, exactly. Yeah. So, okay, now we have been able, we're able to get all the way through all those centuries.

So the castle was then occupied by several different noblemen until the 1700s. By the 1700s, the castle falls into disrepair. And one of the last people to live there, allegedly, was this rogue commander, but he was also secretly an alchemist and magic practitioner. And his name was Oranto. Oh. And the story goes, there is really very little old. to know evidence of the story, but it's a big part of the lore, is that this guy was practicing

magic out there. He knew that this castle was in the middle of the woods, and he turned it into his lab, and he was desperate to figure out the elixir of life. But in the process of that, he was also kidnapping villagers and having his soldiers drag them into the castle and using them as experiments for his elixir of life tests. Are you caught up? Yeah. So they're, yeah, unfortunately, I am. So they're low. So they're lowering people into the hole. They're allegedly dragging people here to test the, to test their body.

Okay, wow. All right. So this is just not a great place even once it's been covered up. No, it just seems to draw in some dark people. And this magician, he, I keep calling a magician, a practitioner. I guess he started terrifying the town because people were like, oh, my God, he's experimenting on us. He's abducting us?

Yeah. Nobody can relate to that these days. by the way. All right. So eventually, yuck. Eventually two people in town had enough and they were willing to risk it for everybody. What is with these people?

They're so risky. They were ready to kill this guy. Oh, shit. Okay. And I saw some longer version of the story where they went to a different magic practitioner who was like, just in case he already figured out the elixir of life, which, if that's true, why is he now experimenting on people? Just in case he already figured it out.

just in case he figured it out, he might be protected because now he is impenetrable from death. Immortal. Yeah. So here are these bullets soaked in something that will reverse the spell. So then they had to go get the bullets. How would you know that how to reverse the spell if you don't even know what the deal? Like that's a great point, Christine. You know, like, snake oil salesman. Thank you. How do you find the cure for something if you're like, I don't even know what the thing is? That's such a good stinking point. I just like to be devil's advocate. And sometimes. And it works.

It helps sometimes. Well, then apparently they snucked over to his lab and they shot him through the window. And then I guess there's a story that like he almost survived and they're like, wow, he really does have the elixir of life. But then he did die. So I guess the bullets work. I don't know. We'll never fucking know. Anyway.

No, that guy was just like, no, it was the oil I put. I put it on the bullets that did it. He used it to market himself for sure. Nice. Yeah, for sure. So that was one of the last people that they say lived in the castle. So then it fell apart. And by the 1800s, it had been renovated. It had changed hands.

And really, by the time the 1920s hit, it was sold to the family that still owns it today. Okay. So, and the family that owns it, maybe you would know about this. don't. But it was sold to the Simoneck family. They are, they own the scota car company. Oh, yeah. I mean, I know this car company, but I don't know. I don't know the family. Okay. I just, I've never heard scota before, but they everyone was talking about it like it's Coca-Cola. So yeah, I think it's a, it's a very common car brand over there. That's not. Okay.

For some reason, some of them just don't like come over here, which is interesting. Anyway. Well, so the president of the Scoda company ends up buying this house in the 19, 20s. He did, he planned on making it his summer home. He did like the final restorations of it. And it's still owned by the family today. However, there was a stint in the middle in the 1940s when it was occupied by say it with me, Nazis. So I'll just let you say it for now. I'm just going to say it. So on top of like all the other dark shit that this place has endured. Right. But Nazis heard about it. It got worse. And they were like, well, we want to go. over there and that's going to be where we station ourselves for like six years um jesus we don't totally know what they did there by the way because any documentation got destroyed there's really

very good nothing good i'll tell you that there is very little evidence although someone who in one documentary about this castle i think she worked there said that after they left people ended up finding books in the walls later or something that suggested that they were there with interests in the occult. Yeah, there was a lot of a big faction of the, not maybe not big faction, but one of the things, I mean, Hitler was looking into

was a lot of a cult, like, just that kind of like fringe, fringe stuff. So you are right. And I, Hey. I didn't know that. I don't know how this whole time

I didn't ever hear about that. But yes, for those who did, did not know somehow. A lot of people in the Nazi party had a really rich fascination with occultism. News to me, but that means that I can also cover it in the future if you guys want. I was going to do like a deep dive and I was like, we don't have the time. Not for that.

Not for Nazis. Not today. I really don't want to give them the air time if I don't have to be there. But apparently it was well known at the time that a lot of people, including like even Hitler himself, were like they were. trying to find supernatural ways to create quote supernatural weapons it's always power hungry people they're into eugenics they want the to have their they want to figure out how your head is shaped they want to find the occult the the arc of the covenant they want to live forever like fuck off find a hobby like go back to painting you know that's exactly right go watercolors shut the fuck

up yeah go with therapist like literally start a podcast like and shut up people are curious about why they took over this specific building because again it lacked any defenses and this was when they were taking over the area so you would think they would want military strategic buildings to occupy but they took this one even though it was incredibly far from Prague it was in the middle of the forest um but again because they were doing shady things people think well maybe they just wanted a building in the middle of nowhere so nobody would know what they were up to um also that could be a place to quote conduct experiments and nobody will hear anything. If you're isolated, you can like have, yeah, yeah.

I feel like there's probably benefits to that in other ways too, like being isolated. Yeah. And it could also be that after I think they found these books, it kind of confirmed the other theory, which was, oh, well, if they're really interested in the occult and they had to have heard about this place that has a little portal to hell in the bottom of it, why wouldn't you want to test out your occult skills and do experiments? in the literal castle covering up the demons of hell. And then you're like, oh, and the sun on one day of the year, like moving down the wall.

I mean, it sounds like, you know. So wild. Magic-y. So it's, um, believe that they chose that place as an isolated area to perform rituals. And it's thought that one of those rituals was to try to harness the energy from the portal of hell to use it towards, I don't know, fucking weapons or something. The Nazis tried to utilize energy from the portal of hell. Yeah. I mean, that tracks.

I mean, it feels pretty dumb. to me. Yeah, because it's like, have you ever watched a movie where like, does that end well? No. Another theory is that they simply use it as a storage facility for their occult documents, which is why maybe the books were left there by accident. But an even worse theory, which does get a lot of mention, so it would be wrong with me to not mention it, is that some people think they chose this isolated location with no strategic value for a,

I'm so sorry, breeding center. Yeah. So moving quickly along, UFOologists have also, it just gets fucking crazier. The UFOologists out there, at least a pack of them, went to the castle and said that they claimed that Hitler used to use this portal to teleport himself around the world. Okay. So there's- Wait, the euphologists say that? Who is that, who?

There's just a group who were like, we're UFOologists. We believe that this isn't a portal to hell, but it's actually a spacetime continuum, time slip space. Can they like speak on that? Or is it just like that's it? I mean, they're not here. And I don't have any more information. Can we call them? Can we give a little phone call?

But apparently they think it's more of a time slip, glitch in the Matrix, which I guess would fall into like the alien thing. I don't know. I don't know, Christine. I feel like I'm losing my mind trying to explain this. Yeah, it sounds pretty bad shit. I feel like it just gets crazier and crazier and crazier.

Meanwhile, maybe there was just like a crack in a fucking cliffside and someone wanted a castle there. I don't know, you know. But like it's just gotten out of control with the theory, even not what you're saying. Just like what every sentence is like some people say it's this. Some people say, what? It is riddled with conspiracy theory. And a few years after the Nazis were there, by the way, a few of their bodies were

literally found on the property. And so then that added a whole other layer of like, well, what did they know? Were they lowered into the crack? Yeah. You know what I mean? What was going on? Or were they the test subjects? And then like they got brought back and it like had the shock with the white hair thing.

Yeah. Yeah. So for obvious reasons, this castle, and by the way, it's underground passages, because of course there are those. Imagine like knowing your, sorry, your ancestor died in obviously if they're, you know, of the Nazi persuasion. That's, you know, not a great thing to explore, but, you know, it's important. But if you had somebody in the war, like even just back then, like a family member and you're like, I know they were missing an action. I have no idea what happened to them. And it's like they were just randomly, their body was at this.

this random ass castle in the Czech Republic, and you just never find out. That's just like really dark and weird. I, yeah. And especially. The answer that happens in so many cases with, especially in a war, but like just such a weird thought that like they found bodies there

that had not been reported. I feel like even if it was my ancestor and they were of the Nazi party and I heard about this mystery, I would not rest until I found out what the fuck happened, purely on the nosiness of it all. I would want to know about it. like fuck you but also I gotta know what the fuck happens you know I'm curious I am curious I um it's same with like my not exactly the same not a one for one but my for this ancestor back I can

go the only reason I can only go that far back is because everyone hated him so much that they refused to speak about him and therefore I lost all information on my family line so now I'm like what the fuck did you do I bet I hated you but I need to know what happened like why did they hate you so much. Anyway, so the castle and its underground passages, of course, they exist. They have multiple types of ghosts from multiple eras of time. There's poltergeist activity. There's shadow people.

There's a lady in white, of course. And she is seen through the windows often, but people have also said, she'll just walk right past you and you think another person's in the room with you. And then all of a sudden you realize there wasn't another person there. Ugh, that's what happened to me, where I was so caught off guard. I thought somebody was just walking around up there at the house that first time. And it's so jarring because it really flips like your sense of reality. You're like, no, no, no, I literally there was just a person there.

I just watched them walk past. It's so weird. It's so creepy. I am so jealous and also not at all jealous that you have that experience. You should be jealous just also because it was at the top of a staircase in a place I don't live. Like it was like the perfect situation. It was like day, the sun was still pretty much out. Like we were getting margaritas afterward.

This is Allison and me. Like the guy was upstairs. Like I felt like it was a. perfect distance, long distance go citing that didn't traumatize me, you know? That's a great point. In that way, I am jealous of the experience because it is arguably the best. Yeah,

it's like best case scenario. Yes. Well, apparently there's another ghost here of a human with the head of a bullfrog. What the fuck? I don't like that. It feels demonic, but it also would confirm the, oh, there were hybrid animal humans coming out of this hole. With frogs. And this one's still here? Yeah, I don't know.

What do you mean? Like, they put a tiny little frog head on a person? Yeah, I do want to know, is it a tiny human body and a normal frog head? Or is it a massive frog head in a normal human body? Well, I think they would have mentioned if it was like six inches tall and like running around with a frog. Like the borrowers have a mask on their head. Yeah, I don't know. It's like a ghost that's hard to see, I guess.

But it's weird. A bullfrog. But I guess that's more symbolic. Like, it does sound symbolic in some way, like either God or goddess or like, um, or something darker, yeah. Well, they've got that. They've got the ghosts of a devil dog, of course. They have a headless man who, quote, is...

I bet you they threw that dog down that thing. I'm not kidding. Oh. Because my first thought was, I promise you, they put a lot of animals down there. I agree. There's no way they were lowering humans down there in the 1200s and, like, hadn't thought to just toss, like,

a horse or a dog or a whatever cat. And now he's being, like, cast for centuries as the devil dog please oh my god he's so for real no we're reclaiming that he was just an innocent little puppy there's no such thing as a devil dog only in the best way he's a little puppy he's just a puppy that's all just a little devil puppy man now i'm mad um now i'm mad too this headless man let's talk about him apparently is that where the head went with the frog we're getting a before and after situation i mean it's weird he he's is, by the way, you don't even know this yet, but a headless man, and it's quoted saying that his,

the headless part of him is quote, gushing blood out of his wound. So I think it's the, like, the energy of like right after he lost his head. Oof, a doofa. Okay. And there's a ghost of a faceless monk dressed in all black who is seen walking past you and vanishing and walking past you where you think he's a real person. Bad vibes. he hangs out in the lowest part of the building which has been nicknamed Satan's office

he's like I'm M. Satan thank you coming to my office. Esquire? Yeah, Esquire for sure. There's also one ghost here called the Guardian, which I'm confused if that's also the monk. But he's said to be watching over the property in the courtyard near the pit. This is very creepy and this has been happening since the castle was built. So for hundreds of years now, dead birds apparently are. constantly found on the ground as if they just fell from the sky.

And the thought is that the dark energy pouring out of the top of the courtyard is so powerful that if a bird flies through it, they just drop. What the fuck? That is so creepy. Which, like, if it's still happening, where are scientists? Like, we can't figure out what the fuck's happening. Well, what is a scientist supposed to do? Like a bird scientist be like, why this spot?

You know? Or maybe they're just getting stuck. Who's going to fund to that? I'll offend it. I mean, I feel like there's crazier thing, science is. looked into, you know? The monk is apparently seen next to the pit. Horrible.

And people also still see winged creatures, a headless horse. So they're still getting out. The winged creatures are still getting out. That's a damn good point, Christine. I just thought maybe they were hiding. I mean, really, what's the point? Well, I'm going to close up shop castle. I don't know.

People still say that they actually hear, quote, a chorus of screams. Oh. And scratching underneath the chapel floor as if people are trying to escape the covered pit. Remember when I was like, I think I've probably been here before. I certainly, this is when I would, I wish we had gone to. I would have actually paid attention, you know. Me too. Every sound, I would have been like, whoa.

The art and stuff? Like, I would have been interested in this. I would have demanded we go on St. George's Day because I need to see this fucking sword. I can't sleep over her. I'm so fascinated by it. When is that? I don't know. April 23rd.

That's a great time to go to Prague. That's what they say. It's beautiful in Prague this time of year. April is famously Prague month. What are you talking about? I'm just being like it's not freezing cold. No, I mean, it is probably a lovely time to visit, but it's probably still pretty chilly. By the way, this one, I hate the most.

The chapel walls are said to have always been inexplicably wet. I knew you were going to say that. Yuck. Even when everything else is dry, they are always, a little damp. People also say coming to this castle is bad luck. I wonder why. They also hear voices. They hear very obvious footsteps.

In some of the videos I watched the footsteps, it was like a person was with them. It was horrible. Yuck. Intense banging, technical malfunctions. People feel themselves being followed. They've had time slips and horrible dreams here. That dates back actually to the 1830s. This guy swears that he had a time slip.

And some sources were saying he had just like a dystopian dream. Some were saying it started as a dream and then it was a time slip. But the main story is that this guy in the 1830s he wrote about how he stayed here overnight. He thought he was having a dream where he actually walked over to the pit and fell in and kept falling and falling and falling until on the other side he ended up in the year 2006. No. What? And he described essentially seeing skyscrapers and a girl scrolling on an iPhone. And so people are like...

What? The fuck? What the hell? So he said something different than skyscrapers and a girl scrolling on an iPhone, but is... What if it was me visiting? Because that was the year I went. Shut the fuck on. And you're like, look at this.

Isn't this me? I just realized. I'm like, wait, I was there in 06. You know what's weird? I did not have an iPhone though, so... The way he described it was, it was probably like an eye touch at that point or something, but... Oh, I was listening to Fallup Boy, no wonder.

Yeah. He said it was... He called it a casket, like something to hold. Like, he was saying, oh, they're a girl. girl showed me. We interacted with her? Yeah, she showed him the pictures and was scrolling on essentially an eye touch. And he was like, it was a cat, I don't remember the words, but a casket of images scrolling

ahead or, or. Casket of, okay, first of all, that's a beautiful description of an iPhone. A casket of images. Apple needs to market that for Halloween. Wow, that's dark. Just a casket of images. I mean, talk about modern day society. What a statement on society.

So then that led people to saying, oh, it wasn't just a dream and having bad nightmares here, but maybe the theory that Hitler was teleporting through time slips or something, maybe that's true now. God help us all, please. I don't need him looking at a casket of images. Jesus. So also the glasses, like a wine glass one time was seen by multiple people literally on the table just dragging itself and then slamming onto the ground. No, at least drink it. Don't fucking slam it on the ground.

People have heard what sounds like a full barrel slamming onto a ground above them when nobody else was in the room. Whoa. One investigator threw a rock and asked if someone could throw the rock back to him and you could hear the rock getting thrown back from the other side of the basement. Okay. What's also so scary is like you're in the middle of the woods. It's not like, you can be like, oh, that was just a car honking nearby. Like you're out there, which is so scary. There's this one I thought was super creepy for really no real reason, but it just freaked me out, is that they had this camera that.

that was, if they, if they pressed a remote, they could, like, Bluetooth to take a picture wherever they were in the castle. They could get a picture of this one room. Like a selfie stick. Like a selfie stick. And the remote, they weren't even touching their remote. And I guess the camera took 100 pictures by itself. And you can hear the audio, because they left a recorder next to the camera.

You can hear it getting messed with and then hearing it click and click. That is probably the guy who did the time slip and was like, oh, here's a casket of images. I'm going to make the casket of images. Let me make my own. animals act very weird here several dogs refuse to go in they start barking and freaking out cars have trouble starting up back here apparently candelabra light bulbs in one room not just like flicker but full blown explode no one time there were a bunch of cars in the parking lot they all refused to turn on and none of them would turn on and they had to call a priest in

and bless all the cars for them to turn back on what they really last resort get the priest in here I know. And I watched one video of an investigator using a spirit box. And she kept saying, is the guardian, the monk maybe, is the guardian here? Is it okay that we're here? And the spirit box said, run, don't go there, leave. And then later, she got the spirit box again saying, come outside. And then she heard a huge growl. And then the spirit box said, I want you to go. Okay. That's one example of many. Unless, yeah, I don't think I would stay much longer than that. That's one example of many creepy fucking things that happened there. But all that you need to know is that since the 1920s, other than that's where the Nazis is occupied it for a second. It has stayed in the same family since the 1920s. And as of 1999, they opened it to the public.

So you can do tours there. You can do ghost tours there. They have a website that's like chock full of events. But I could not tell you what that was because it was all not in English. but it looks like a really fun list. It was just very busy. And the last thing I'm going to say is, fun fact, this castle was used in a

Doctor Who comic book. Okay. It was Dr. Who, it was literally set in Huska Castle. And I'll end on a quote from somebody who is talking about it, saying, the most beautiful thing about Huska or Hauska is the fact that

no one can tell where the castle came from. from how long it's been standing here or what its purpose is. The castle was named as the most, as the mystery discovery, the most mysterious discovery in our country. Wow. But how weird is that that everyone in the town is like, there's a castle, we don't know where the fuck it came from. That's remarkable.

They're like, we have rumors, but we're not 100% sure. We're not touching that. And especially for something so elaborate, like the art on the walls and the golden sword or whatever. It's just like, what? So somebody did that and then didn't like put their name all over it. or like, it's just weird. Or maybe they did and like so many other people like Nazis defaced it or, you know,

like maybe there was more in the walls or underneath and they got rid of it or burned it. Who knows? Horrible. Anyway, I need to go purely for this little St. George's art that I got to check out. No, I thought you were like, I need to go. And I was like, okay, bye. No other reason. I need someone to take me in a caravan through the forest so I can look at this thing on St.

George's Day. And as soon as... You better go back to that calendar and buy a ticket. It sounds like it's probably a popular. I would hope they do like an annual viewing of the like I hope they you know what they should do they should live stream it so everyone gets to watch I would love to watch that maybe do you got to get you a browser translator Eva get me the castle um get me the castle on the horn who's good castle on the horn um wow what a tail I'm so sorry that was so long I'm sure you have to pee I have to pee um my big B is kicking in my big T is kicking in wow okay There's nothing I love more than a fun little treat in FLT when I do anything, including what's expected of me. With Bilt, when you pay your rent, you literally get treats. You get rewards.

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So join the loyalty program per renters at jointbuilt.com slash drink. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-T dot com slash drink. Make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. It's like one of those things where you either understand or don't understand that the litter smell has been a problem for millennia. I mean, I hate to be that guy, but until next. No, you know, but like Boxycat actually, I have been using it and we have our litter box in the bathroom, like our bathroom. And oh, it smells sometimes.

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Enjoy 30% off with code drink at boxycat.com slash drink. That's B-O-X-I-E-C-A-T dot com forward slash drink. Okay. What a great little spiral that turned into. What a spiral. I got to get in the second half here, M, because I have one of the wildest cases that, and I know we're already like going kind of long. So I want to get into this.

Yes, so sorry. No, it's not your fault. You heard me. You all heard me going on and on and on. This is the Oslo Plaza woman. The mystery of the Oslo, Oslo, God, the other day Leona learned that's a tongue twister. And now she says it all the time for things that are also not tongue twister. I love how she's, she doesn't mean it to be nasty, I'm sure. But what a fun little thing that's going to be when she's older. That's a tongue twister. Oh, she's already putting it to very good use. I wouldn't worry. She understands tone and all that very, very, very well. well. Shockingly, upsettingly well. Okay, so this is the mystery of the Oslo Plaza woman. And it's unsolved, okay. But it is very creepy and it's full of conspiracy. So as far as synchronicities go, this took place on June 3rd, which was just weird after we had just done the episode where I was searching June 3rd. The Oslo Plaza Hotel, it's a, it was described as a top luxury hotel. in Oslo, Norway. It is like, you know, five-star, very classy joint. So even in the 90s, like mid-90s,

it's a very like upscale, trendy, you know, establishment. On June 3rd, 1995, a hotel employee or security staff member went to room 2805 at the Oslo Plaza Hotel because the guest had not provided a credit card or settled payment. Staff knocked on the door to the room to address the billing issue and immediately after the knock a single gunshot was heard from inside the room. Oh, fuck. Also weirdly timed. Like what are the odds that like in that moment? So wait, so right. So remind me again? What was the call for? Or no, they went up just because of the the most payment problem. Okay. I'm glad you asked this because there was more detail that I hadn't really written out, but this is a good place to put it real quick. So the front desk had realized,

and this is one of the odd things that happened. When she checked in, she did not provide any form of payment and she did not provide any form of ID. And like it is the 90s, but like that was not standard. That was not procedure. Like you, you need a passport or like a form of credit card something to pay for your stay or to like put a deposit. Nothing like that. So they had apparently pinged her a few times from the front desk to say like, hey, can you settle your bill when you get a minute? And the front desk clerk sent one up, had seen there were two already sent up. But sent one up on this on this june third and it was responded to and apparently the way this worked was on the tv screen in the hotel room it was like one of those where you could hit like the okay

button and it would like notify the front desk that you saw their message or some high tech 90s thing um so they sent the message up to be like hey we want to see if you've gotten our messages and she responded like in the affirmative like got it or whatever kind of response that would be and so they were like let's send someone up to like discuss with her the payment so she knows what's going on let's yeah and let or we can get the information from for now i guess or whatever so they go up to address the billing issue and immediately after the knock this gunshot goes off in the room so the staff member left the area to get help alert police uh security the door area the entrance to this to this hotel room was not monitored for approximately 15 minutes after the gunshot

yikes until security and or police came back okay and she was by herself a little so we for what we know so far she's the story goes that she was alone okay so so far we don't know anything because this woman has not checked in with like ID or anything but they are going to kind of trace back and figure out a few details. Got it. So they go inside the room. They do find her alone. They find her body.

She is lying on the bed. She has a gunshot through her forehead. And she is holding a 9mm browning pistol in her hand. Okay. And she's clearly dead. There's blood everywhere. And it smells accurate in there. Like either gunpowder.

One of the staff members mentioned it. And I don't know if it was like a gunpowder. smell. I will say the serial number on the pistol when they took a look at it had been removed using acid, which is like a very professional way because serial numbers, I guess, are you can't just file them off like on these kind of guns. You need to like professionally remove them. So clue number one. Yeah, so that was a little odd. And it said it had been removed using acid and that just struck me because of the comment of like it smelled accurate in there. Sure. I think that was probably more like gunpowder. So she was laying in a pool of blood wearing a black blazer, a white blouse, a black

skirt, and black shoes. They interview, so there's an episode of Unsolved Mysteries. It's one of the things I watched to get more info about this. And they interviewed Auden Christensen of the Oslo Police Department. And he notes that when they went in there, there was no sign of another person being present in the room and the door had been locked, deadbolted from the inside. So like double locked. Okay. It appeared she'd been the only guest staying there. Um, there is a picture. So there are a lot of evidence pictures that make me glad I watch this episode because I'm going to send some of them to you as we go through. They just give me the hebi-jeebies. I don't know what it is. Oh, okay. Something about an evidence photo like in general, but like I have a picture here of her room service meal.

But she had eaten like right before not passing away and they found like the content. of it in her stomach and it's just like it's so eerie it's so eerie and like these are all clues because it's a unsolved mystery so we really don't know right no i'm glad you mentioned that that's one of those things that like i can't look away from but they make me so uncomfortable but i think it's because it's evidence so like this thing was created with the understanding that a completely different trajectory was going to go on like someone was going to be alive to eat it someone yeah yeah that is unsettling It's so close to, time-wise, it's so close to, like, a really massive event happening. It's just, like, a snapshot of, like, someone's day, and then it's, like, for the worst reason.

Yeah. It's like the worst reason. It also feels like a snapshot from the normalcy of a day that is now never normal. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So here's a picture of the food that she had ordered through room service. It's a Bratworths with potato salad. it just gives me the creeps.

So there was very limited blood spatter present at the scene. There was no sign of a struggle and no obvious blood found on the gun itself or on her hand. That being said, though, they just kind of assumed at first that it was a suicide because this woman was locked in her room for all we know by herself and had a gun in her hand and had presumably shot her. herself in the head. So they were able to go back through, um, now one thing that's like maddening about this case is that nobody went through security footage and they had security footage at the hotel, but nobody ever asked for it or went through it. So that's just completely gone. And we could have probably had all sorts of information, but great. Too little too late. So they were able to determine that not many people had entered the room through the woman's stay,

which had been approximately three days. She had checked in on May 31st. And what was more interesting is that they found no sign of anyone entering around the time of her death. So they're thinking suicide. She was depressed. She had spent a lot of time at the hotel preparing for her death. But then they start to go through her stuff to figure out like, okay, let's see what she's got here, who this person is, yeah, who we can contact. And they realize there is no proof of identity among any of her belongings. I have some more. unsettling crime scene photos for you, or I guess, seen, not necessarily crime scene, but

which part of me scene pictures. Part of me would also say that that could fall into the suicide category because it's like, oh, well, she didn't have any of her paperwork because she didn't, she wasn't going to go anywhere. Her plan was to go to this hotel and do something. But then I could also see maybe her being captured,

and that's why she never rounded all of her stuff up and all of her paperwork up. So I think you're going to have an interesting journey on this. You did tell me early on that this is an outrageous case. So I am interested to see what that means. Okay. So they found no proof of her identity. Here is a picture.

I'm going to send them all at once. But the first picture, I'll wait until you receive it. And then I'll tell you when to swipe. I have received it. Okay. So this first photo is of like a wallet or briefcase. It's just completely empty. There's nothing in it.

No credit card, no driver's license. Presumably this person is visiting, right? They're staying at a hotel. And it's like no money. You're staying at like a five-star hotel also. Like no money, no passport, nothing. That's a little bit odd. They find no ID, no keys, like no keys to a car or apartment.

And then this is what creeps me out. If you go to the next picture, she had taken a shower, presumably, seemingly, but there was no toothbrush, no hairbrush, no toiletries, no makeup. Like nothing in the bathroom to be of like personal effect. So she just came here to scrub basically. Just weird. Okay. Now.

Could she have, I'm just. No, no, go for it. This is how this case goes. You just keep saying, could it be this? Could it be this? Well, I'm like, could she have like been from out of town and they lost her bag, you know, or I don't know. I mean, that's, right. because like we've had that happen on tour two of like oh shit my bag with all my makeup and my clothes for the show tonight are gone i'm just gonna shower and call it a day yeah yeah

but her but she has clothes in the next picture her she so she does have clothes so she had a bag so they looked at her clothes and if you keep scrolling they found that none of her clothes had tags in them oh oh okay so far i that is eerie because i know we're heading towards a true crime case here but it's not that eerie because i also tear all my tags out Okay, so we've had this conversation before and I was so shocked because I was like, that is the weirdest clue to me. Like when somebody takes all the tags out of their clothes, I'm like, what in the world? Homegirl has sensory issues. I would just thought that. But even on her like leather jacket. Okay, so here, I have some more intel.

They notice all the tag and labels had been removed from her clothing, including her blouse, skirt and leather jacket. Now, you'll notice in the pictures I sent, they're all items of. clothing for the upper body and that's because they found not a single item of clothing for the waist down in her entire room. That's a weird one. That's weird. It's weird, right? I mean, no, I can't even just. I was like, maybe she just forgot to pack pants. Nope. I don't know. I don't know. How do you only remember shirts and everything else is missing? Um, no. Okay, so I don't know what to do with that yet. So here's some other anomalies. She was given a room without giving any identification or upfront payment, which is a high-end hotel. This is like procedure. You don't

really give. They had like royalty stay here. They had heads of state. They had visiting like pop stars. Like this is not a place where you just kind of waltz in. They're very strict about security. They had a strict rule about showing your passport. So this was just really abnormal. All they did find as far as identifying information was what was entered on the registration card when she checked into the hotel. and that was the name Jennifer Fairgate is what she gave. Sounds like a celebrity. It does, doesn't it? But it doesn't it also sound like a fake name?

Jennifer Fairgate, with a date of birth of August 28th, 1973, which would have made her about 21 years old. They had a phone number on the registration card, which was an area code in Belgium. And they had her address, which was a small village in Belgium. So police, they need to figure out who is. this is and who to contact. So they, they inform Interpol Belgium. They send an urgent memo. They want to notify this woman's family. But Belgian authorities say there's no such woman

who lives in Belgium. Jennifer Fairgate. Hmm. Huh. Also, Jennifer Fairgate does not, I, call me crazy. Sounds more like an American name than a Belgian name. So I feel like immediately I would have just, I would have been like, even if she lives in Belgium, I would wonder, does she have, like, is she there on a travel trip? Like, what's, what's going on? And then, if so, where's her passport? Okay. Because if you're from Belgium, then you're going to Norway, you need a passport. Yeah, either way. It just doesn't make any sense. It's a good point. So Belgian authorities are like, we have no idea who this is. So they look for fingerprints in her room and they only find fingerprints of this woman. They ran those through

Interpol, it came up empty. Looking through her registration info, they found that three days before arriving at the hotel she had called to inform staff that she would be traveling with someone named Lewis Fairgate. Okay. So it's spelled Lois on all the forms, but I, some things, just, some of the names just seem misspelled. So I don't know if this is meant to be Lois, like, which is often in the U.S., at least, the feminized version of Lewis, I guess. But it looks to be fell lowest. I don't know if it's different over there, the naming conventions, but they say Lewis when they're talking about it on, talking about the case, like the detectives and the journalists, but I don't know if it was meant to be Lois or Lewis. But either way, she said it was a Lewis

Fairgate. And remember, they went to a room. There was no sign of another person. They fingerprinted the whole room. There were no other fingerprints in there. And the police. are starting to feel a little uneasy because they hear from one staff member that this woman remembered seeing a man standing with a woman during check-in, but then not again after that. So now we're not sure if this is just like some, we don't know, we don't know. Aside from the registration card and this kind of hazy memory of the employee, there is no confirmed evidence that a person named Lewis or Lois Fairgate ever appeared at the hotel. no hotel staff could confirm, like prove that they saw anybody else associated with the room.

Nobody like room service, everybody in that kind of position said she was alone. So we don't know. We do know, though, that they set the room up for two. So she had called, said, I'm traveling with someone. And so when they took a look at the scene, there were two duvets, but one was folded up and placed aside. Right. Like there was there was there were like his and her style you know like accessories that clearly the hotel had prepped for two people. And we don't know if this Lewis character is like supposed to be her husband or her brother. Because I mean if they're having the same last name, I guess the assumption would be that they're related.

But then again, like you and I have used fake names in hotels and I could see two people using just the same last name just so they don't have to get confused about stuff. Or like pretending to be a couple. Or pretending to be a couple. Yeah. Okay. I just didn't know if we knew. We don't know. We have no clue.

We have nothing other than Lewis-Fergate and then maybe a hazy memory of a man standing there. Okay. That's it. So officials weren't sure quite what to do. They kept her body for one year in case anyone came forward to identify her. And then in 1996, a year later, they gave her a simple burial and buried her. And with that, they kind of determined it had been a suicide. They were like, we don't really know what else to do at this point.

It does feel like a dead end. I mean, it feels weird, but no other solid answers. It's like too many weird things happening in the big picture, but then like one by one, you could probably discount them all. You know what I mean? Yeah. I know usually I'm the one like interrupting your stories and telling you my thoughts. But like at this point in your research, what did you think?

happened. I was weirded out because I'm thinking, I mean, I'm thinking, okay, this case specifically weirds me out because I think, I finally figured out why. I think it's because it takes place in 95. This young woman is like 21. She's basically like all my aunts ages. And I would visit a lot during that time and just like seeing the crime scene pictures, seeing photos of this woman and sketches of her. I'm like she looks like my family members. It's so weird. Like it looks like my mom in the 90s. Um, so it's just like really unsettling to me. And there's something about the fake name and the fake address and the fake phone number. I'm like, she's, there's something shady going on here. Like I think this is way too many red flags is my. And I think it was

like a targeted thing that I don't know why. Maybe like, I'm thinking spy is frankly where my head is up. Oh shit. I hadn't even thought of spy. But then the second I hear tags removed, I'm like spy because that's such a common trope, right? Like Somerton man, they cut the tags out. That's when we had that conversation. Yes. No, I didn't even think about that. I'm still in the like someone. I remember going and then M, all the tags removed and you were like, uh-huh. And I was like, you're supposed to go what? And you were like, no. I think it to me, I take all my tags. So I was just like, so crazy to me.

I'm like, I would never. No. I take Leona's tags out, like if they're like scratchy, but. No, they all feel scratchy to me. So I was just like, well, just like them all out. And now I don't even test to see if they're scratchy or not. It's just a habit to just rip it out before I even put the shirt on for the first time. Wow.

I know. But I guess like, I like even the tags that were like sewn in and wouldn't be scratchy. Yeah. These are like, that's odd. That is odd. Yeah. Like these were like specifically. Yeah.

yeah yeah like all identifying any sort of label any identifying label had been removed i think that's interesting twist okay yeah it's odd yeah it's odd and then the fact of course that there are no pants or skirts in the room it's just like yeah but even spies need pants i mean like no i know that's why i'm like someone else is involved here in a tooth brush you imagine a stinky breath spy you're not a good spy you have to blend in and be clean they'll smell you coming you know yeah um yeah yeah they will Yeah, so that's where I was at at this point. Like someone else, she's being shady, someone else being shady. I don't think this was a suicide is my gut.

But again, I was also watching unsolved mysteries. So it's like, I've been primed for that. It's also not my gut, but I also don't know what I, like, I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket yet. But also, like, could there have been a mental health situation where like she just didn't bring documents and didn't bring pants and didn't bring a toothbrush and yeah. So that could also be it. I listened to kind of last minute, I found a crime junkie episode about this. And I'm glad I listened because Ashley Flowers had done a very Ashley Flowers thing and reached out to the guy, like this guy that I'm going to talk about who the journalist who like has basically worked on this case for for decades. Love that.

And like got additional information from him directly with some of these questions that like I had like, well, what about this tag or what about that? And I feel like it was a really good fill in. so I want to point that out too because I make mention of some of those facts. But yeah, so they determine it had been a suicide after all. They do a burial. They thought perhaps she was depressed, right? And Occam's razor maybe, you know, should the deadbolt was locked, she had a do not disturb sign on. She hadn't paid her bill.

It makes sense, right? Yeah. So we never know, of course, what someone is going to do. do when they're planning on taking their own life. There's no way to say like, oh, this isn't normal behavior. That's not normal behavior before suicide. However, they were sure to mention some of the oddities. Like, she had recently just taken a shower. She was actually wearing like really nice clothes and looked like she was about to go out. Like she was wearing high heels, like a black skirt. She was wearing like these knee high stockings and a blazer. Like she just looked really polished

and well-dressed. And then the weapon is, something is up with this weapon. So this 9mm browning pistol, interestingly, made in Belgium, traced back to Belgium. Okay, so something's from Belgium. Something's from Belgium.

And this pistol is like a really powerful weapon. And it's usually used, okay, so this is one thing that also, crime junk you mentioned, is like, you think of guns. and like here in the U.S. were like, oh, well, she had a gun. Okay, who doesn't, right? I mean, I don't, but you know what I mean? Like, it's just kind of when you hear this, but that's not really a commonplace thing, right? Like, it's much more structured and organized over there and a lot more restrictions. And so the fact that she had this, like, pistol is rather unusual because this is usually a gun that's meant for law enforcement. Um, usually if you have a gun, you're going hunting. or, you know, you're going to a gun range, but it's unusual for like just a citizen to have this weapon, especially with the serial number, like removed, like professionally removed.

The other odd thing is they open her briefcase and there's no ID anything like that. There are 25 rounds of ammunition though. Okay. And it's odd, right? Like you're, it doesn't necessarily mean anything by itself, but it's odd to go, I would imagine, into a hotel with 25 rounds of ammo. Yeah, you don't need 25 chances at this, you know? Yeah.

And one thing they mentioned as well in the episode, which I didn't see elsewhere, so I'm not sure. I must have just missed it, but there was apparently a second shot, a shot, I guess it's not the second shot. It would be the first shot, like a test shot almost into the pillow behind her, as if she were like, they think she was like testing the gun. Okay. But also like someone would have heard that, right?

Right. And also like And like No. If some If no one heard if that means it happened a lot earlier than it must have happened as soon as she got checked in because if she checked in and then not too long later a guy's coming up asking for her payment. It had to happen like pretty immediately, right? What do you mean?

Like how long was she in the hotel from checking? Three days. Oh, three days. Okay. So I don't know. I guess she did have time to test it out. But then why would you go to bed the next day? Well, I think they're implying that it was test out right before.

But my thought is the guy. Bang to test the gun and then like. I guess so. I mean, I get that. But I also feel like if that guy was coming up and walking to her door and right before he walked in heard the bang, I feel like he wouldn't have been so far away, he wouldn't have heard the initial bang too, right?

I guess we'll never know. mean, you could just be like, oh, the front desk is sending someone up. Yeah. And then before you even, you know, and then like hesitating until there's a knock at the door. Sure. Which I also had that thought of like, that's a great point. My gut instinct, which is like probably nothing and there's no proof of this, but like my gut instinct is almost like a startled response, right? Like someone knocks and you're like startled.

I don't know. I mean, it was clearly through the forehead. So it's not like this was an accident. But it could have been a panic mode of like it's now or never. Right. That's kind of where my, because I'm like right after the knocking, the bang happens. Like that's just such an odd thing. Yeah.

Although I wonder if it was a suicide, why would she agree to the like, okay, yeah, I'm going to handle the payment with you? I feel like she would have just ignored that. I mean, probably just to dismiss it. I don't know. Oh, sure. Maybe like to avoid them coming up to the her room. I don't know. I don't know.

That's, I, hmm. It's odd, though. I see your argument on, like, why it could even, like, like, the spy theory, but this also feels very, um, chaoticly put together. It does not feel organized, like, what a spy would know how to do it or would want to do it. I don't know. It feels like, I feel like she would, like, know, like, gun safety more than being startled. Right. Okay.

I see what you're saying. But if she were a spy, then she wouldn't presumably be killing herself, you know. what I mean? This would have been set up. Yeah. Unless she was just, she needed out of the game. She was a depressed spy. I don't know. I have no idea. This feels like now. We're really getting crazy. Okay, okay. Mixing up theories. So they find 25 rounds of ammo in the briefcase, which is like, whoa, there's no skirt or, but there's no toothbrush, but there's 25 rounds of ammo.

You know, it's just like startling is strange. Now, the first thing, I noticed when I saw the evidence photo, which maybe this is assigned to trust my get, but I brought it. I thought it and then I was like maybe I just don't know anything and I don't know anything. But that being said, I did notice that her hand holding the pistol looked funny. Like I was like, she's holding it weird. And then I flipped my laptop to like look at the image. Like I paused it and turned it. And I was like, oh, she has her thumb on the trigger.

Oh. So it's like this. I hate to be like reenact. I'm not trying to like reenact. But like. So she had her thumb on the trigger facing the pistol twirl. herself. Yeah.

So it had a slightly downward entry and exit into her skull. I'm like doing it with my own hands. Yes. I mean, I guess someone at least set it up to look like a suicide if it wasn't one. Yeah. Well, so it's odd. And like the way that they have her holding the gun in that picture, oh, I have a picture of it. I'm sorry.

I meant to send you. This is important. This is so a nothing thing. But if I were Olivia Benson or my neighbor, Danny Pino, I. Your neighbor, Danny Vino. Detective Amaro, your neighbor. My neighbor. I would be really curious as to why she hung up her coats in the closet.

I just feel like there's something there, and I know that's silly. But you couldn't even pack pants, but you're hanging your jackets. And also, if you were just packing a bag just to look like you had a packed bag and then you were going to go and hurt yourself, you wouldn't like hang your jackets on. up you might though see that's what i'm saying like sometimes people just go through a rote routine and it's like if that's how you do it every time you go into room you know what i mean but but i also agree with you that like it doesn't make sense i mean it doesn't make sense that you wouldn't have any pants but then like the idea is somebody tampered with the same or like removed them so i just sent you a picture of her holding the gun and it like it's yeah it's upsetting but it like

do you see how her hand is on the trigger yeah or her thumb is on the trigger. Yeah. So I, it's just odd, right? And the people who've looked at this and like the ballistics experts, all these people, they're like, that's unusual. Now, the other thing is strange is that there's no blood on her hand at all. Oh, well, that'll do it.

Isn't that strange? And like, of course, most of the blood would go back, but something, there'd be residue for sure. or residue something like that. So here's the chief pathologist at Oslo University Hospital said, quote, this could have been a suicide except for the fact that there were no blood spots on her hand. He explained that now I want to give, I know we've been talking about suicide, but I want to give a trigger warning of like specifics here. In suicide by gunshot cases, he noted that people are usually very shaky.

Ugh, this part really was upsetting. and he said they will often put their left hand over the barrel to keep it steady. Oh, okay. And the hands usually have at the very least gunshot powder, if not blood, bruising. I mean, they showed a hand that had done something similar with a pistol and had died someone who had died the same way. And the recoil? And by suicide. And the recoil is so strong on this kind of a gun that their hand is like black and blue.

They got blood on it. not only that but it was in her hand resting like on her chest it wasn't the recoil alone they shoot the gun in the unsolved mystery or something it like pushes this man i mean it's a hard it's a it's a heavy duty thing um so they that found it extremely odd as well that like the gun just rested calmly in her hand it's possible right like all of the stuff is technically possible but then if you look at her hand in that it's like pristine you know yeah it's like it's like it's like it's like completely clean. Very well placed and totally on.

Yeah. And they didn't do any gunpowder residue stuff. So according to, so what I saw was that there, they didn't, there didn't appear to be any. And I don't think they did as extensive testing as maybe they should have on a lot of this stuff. They tested her, for example, for alcohol, but not drugs. Like there are a lot of things that shoulda kutu-a-kut-a-wit-v-frikin CCTV. Like, it just makes me crazy. but we don't have it.

So, yeah, we don't know. There appears to be no blood on the gun. There actually was no blood on the gun. There appears to be no gunshot residue on her hands. No blood on our hands. It's just odd. Now, decades later, this journalist that I was going to mention, Lars, he's like one of these guys where you're like, oh, yeah, he's got it.

He's going to fucking nail this someday. But he's been working on it for decades. Wow. And he kept getting drawn back to the story. So he actually covers missing persons in Norway and unknown identities of like Jane Doe's, John Doe's, that kind of thing in Norway. And he had written a series about several people including this woman. And he kept getting drawn back to the story. So decades later, he went in 2016 to the small town in Belgium.

Oh, wow. which is a real place. It's called Verlaine, and it is a really small town in Belgium. And the country code or the local area code she used did match up to the area. And there was a street with the address, not with the address number, but there was the street that she mentioned. Everything seemed like she knew of the area pretty familiar. She was pretty familiar with it. Like to use it as like a fake thing.

Right. It's like a, it's a nuanced experience that she seems to be able to have. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, you have the Belgian gun,

whatever. But so they found the man who was mayor in 1995. And they said, can you take a look at the sketch of this woman? And do you recognize her? First they asked you know everyone in town. He's like, oh,

I know everyone in town. He's the mayor, right? Like, of course he knows everyone in town. It all was like, first of all, it's an impossible question to ask a mayor, like to be like, you must know everybody as if that's part of his job description. But it's also like so embarrassing anyway as a mayor to be like, no, I don't know everyone. Right. And he's like the exact type of mayor where you're like, oh boy, here we go. And he's like, I built a house next to my parents. And he's going on and on in French. And I'm like, okay, they asked you a simple question. Yes or no. But yeah. He's clearly mayor. Like he's like, I've lived here my whole life. He's Doug Debeda Dom. Yeah. He's like, he's Doug Debedome. That's right.

And Doug Dibodum in French, whatever that is. And Dugi. Sorry, go ahead. Duge. Dume della Dibba, I don't know. Duge Della. Dibedto. I, oh, I'm the Homsiel Divida.

I don't fucking know. Degedome. Okay. Please. Please. Everybody relax. All right. I'm sending you this sketch that they showed the mayor.

And they said, we've had these made up based on, um, you know, he, reconstructing. And she? This is her? Oh, she, yeah. Yes. Oh.

They show it to the mayor, and the mayor's like, I have no clue who this is. Yeah. So it's a little, I don't know, gender neutral. I kind of love it. I mean, the vibe. Maybe that's why it looks like all my aunts and my, like, many gay aunts and, I mean, it does look like someone's gay, yeah. Although it's very 90s style, right?

Like it, okay, let me get a. maybe there's a better more um the pixie cut here i'll get a boat the outfit is interesting maybe it is just a 90s look but it does feel like i think it is a 90s look i really do she's swimming in that jacket and wears her little skirt i'm looking for her the skirt if this is what she looks like though the sketch artist did an incredible job this is very detailed i don't know if i want to show you the picture that's okay don't i mean i got i got the general image down looks like a non-binary person sorry uh short spiky black hair blue eyes uh really likes to wear black uh kind of like chic a chic vibe yes very like the leather jacket the black skirt the pencil skirt

the um yeah strong jaw strong if i sent you a picture of her face but there's nothing like whatever you would do i'm on okay i don't want to like like Oh, yuck. I see what you mean. Sorry. Oh, that's an intense. Sorry. Sorry.

Sorry. That's okay. I shouldn't have sent you that. It's weird. We have a true crime podcast. I'm going to see true crime stuff sometimes. Okay. So it does still look like her.

Yeah. And this is, this is not anything graphic, but this is a picture of how they found her in the room. Okay. I see. Like, to give you an idea, her legs were hanging off the bed, like over the edge. And she was dressed up as a. if she had somewhere to go. Although, I will say, isn't it common for a lot of people who die this way? I don't think that's an uncommon thing. To like dress up for the event, you know?

I think it's like to be found in a dignified way. You know what I mean? I see. Typically. I see. But I also don't think that that's what you do in a gunshot case because that's not going to be a like a, that's going to be sure. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, there's. Yeah, I can't wrap my head around it. All I know is that I don't feel I can speak. I've heard of people, if we're trying to still make the argument for it being a suicide, her being dressed up could be a point either way. Yeah. And like, you know, they made a good point too on crime junk. You've like, well, maybe she got, maybe she gave away the clothes, right? Like, oh, I don't need these anymore.

You know what I mean? Like maybe she gave away her clothes. But then also it's like, I don't know. But still then you're like, why not the shirts? I don't know. It's just odd. It's just odd. Well, now seeing the face next to these sketch drawings, I mean, it is a pretty accurate drawing.

Yeah, it's hard to say. I think I had seen so many, like, actual images that when I saw the sketch, I was like, oh, yeah, I can see it. But you're right. As a sketch, just by itself, it's hard to wrap your head around. Yeah, no, it's definitely like a black, spiky, short hair kind of look. Yeah, the nose, yeah, it's, I mean, it looks like her. So they show this to this mayor.

He has no clue who she is, so they're thinking this is probably not, not really. like this is probably not a person from here, but she's clearly familiar enough to put, they find the street, but then she had put like 1.485 or something of the address and it only went up to 99 or something like that. Like they, she also put a place of work that didn't exist.

Like it's just odd. And the fact that it was such a small town and everything kind of correlated was strange. And like my gut in that instance is like either childhood place or like a family member was from there or right i don't know like i just see it feels like she had enough information to like fake it a little bit but not it was significant in some way yeah yeah like more than you would just out of off the cuff you know um so the journalist i mentioned uh he is named lars christiann weggner and he put together a timeline of the key card entries

into the room so we don't have exits right because you don't use your card but we do have entries Okay. Police stated they believed she'd spent most of the time in her room like preparing for suicide because there were not many key card entries noted, but the log, like I said, doesn't account for exiting the room. And housekeeping was actually there Thursday, which was the day after she checked in. Okay. And the room was completely empty when they were there.

So they cleaned. Oh, okay. And no one entered the room until the, no key card wise, nobody entered the room until the next morning, which would make 20 hours of empty space. Okay. So she could have gone out, met a friend, stayed over there instead or something like that. Trying to think, yeah. We have no idea. Yeah.

We have no idea. So then they interviewed a leader within the Norwegian intelligence service. Oh, I want to mention, I want to mention before I forget that one of the housekeepers had mentioned, actually, that she saw a pair of shoes. shoes in the room. Okay. And she said she remembers cleaning. This is like when she was interviewed later.

She remembers cleaning and she remember seeing the shoes because she thought those are really cute. I would love those. And she noted the brand and she said they were colorful. But when they found this woman's body, the shoes were not in the room. So just another odd thing. So there were things in the room that then were not in the room later when her body was found, if that makes sense.

That is interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So they talked to Norwegian intelligence. And during this time, actually, in this hotel, there were pretty regularly top secret negotiation meetings with like political figures, intelligence agencies. Apparently this was where Israeli and Palestinian authorities would meet. Hmm. Okay. And like stay at this hotel. So it's not unusual for them to have very high profile guests. But again, it's a little. odd then that they didn't ask for a passport or a payment form. Right. And also, if she were a spy, she, I would imagine, it's very easy for her to just give them a fake passport even, like, do whatever you need to do.

But like, she would, she would know to have at least fake paperwork versus no paperwork. So she had actually put, I believe she had put a number, a passport number in the registration form. Oh, right. But never shown an ID. Like, something odd like that. But then again, like, that's fake then. Okay.

Because she, everything else is fake. So I don't know. Like either someone took it or maybe she didn't have one. But so our friend Lars, the journalist, who Ashley's friend Lars, who's going through the details and showing this spy guy who's like this Norwegian intelligence guy. And he basically is like, I'll stop you right there. This is, I do not think this was a suicide. And Lars is like, oh, okay. And he says, quote, from my point of view, this is a very well carried out intelligence operation.

I have a feeling that she was executed. Okay. What the fuck. So I guess I'll just go through some of the like shit. More or less, he says it's impossible to shoot yourself in the head in this way. Right. He said the serial number was removed in a professional way. The tags is taking out the tags normal intelligence procedure.

We've got her absences from the hotel, which mark like a second place to go. the door being locked from double locked from the inside means nothing quote professional intelligence organizations have no problems with opening doors there's no closed door for intelligence which is like the scariest sentence i've ever heard there's no closed door for intelligence i like that gives you like big watchful eye big brother energy like it's i'm on a spy tic talk and this like whistleblower spy tic yeah because you keep removing tags from your fucking clothes and they're like we know you well the way that they've let me know that every single way that I feel safe in my fortified home is absolutely just like a facade. Be careful. Yeah, and then you put a thumb drive of Rockabilly music in your computer.

Great callback. No, they were saying something recently about like, oh yeah, any car from this year and more, from this year on, like, I forget what the year was, they're all just computers that can be accessed at any point. So like if they want to make you look like you drove into a street sign or driving a traffic that's possible. And I was very proud of my 2015 Subaru. I was like, I'm not getting rid of this bad boy. Yeah.

Can't get me. Okay. And you're like, I'm old school. You can get me every other way, but not in my car. Can't get me except on TikTok. So basically he's like there is no, there is no, there's no lock door for us. Don't worry. And he said it's nearly impossible to tell if anyone fucked with the lock.

Like they would have. just know how to do that. And like, in my opinion, as I think about this, I'm like, they'd have somebody in the hotel who can just let them in. They'd have somebody at the hotel who says, oh, yeah, I'll cover for her. She doesn't need a passport. I don't know. That's my gut is like clearly this.

If it is a spy thing, I think all this is plausible, right? Because suddenly it's like all the normal shit is out the window. Of course they don't have security footage. Of course, she didn't need a passport. Of course you didn't, like there's, if it is a spy thing, I'm like, there's stuff behind the scenes that. Yeah. You can't explain.

Sure. So in his opinion, he thinks those 15 minutes where nobody was guarding the room is when somebody either cleaned up and left took her bag. And if it's a real spy operation, someone could have pretended to be a cleaning lady or something and just walked in and just, oh, I'm cleaning. Totally. So I meant to mention this up top. I'm so sorry I didn't. I was in the wrong version of my notes. but when they when Lars later went and spoke to he he finds these people like he's a sleuth okay he gets out there he finds the room service person and talks to her and she remembers dropping off the food and mistake actually i don't know if this is one larz spoke to or one that was interviewed by police either way the room service staff member drops off the food which is that picture i showed you earlier mistakenly and remembers mistakenly knocking on the wrong door at first which was the room across the hall 28

They got to Jennifer's room eventually figured out the right room number. She opened her door and she was wearing, according to the staff member, like a business skirt, business outfit. The woman said she looked almost like a flight attendant was her first gut instinct. Like the black heels, like the pencil skirt, you know, that kind of vibe. And she said she had a suitcase and there was no suitcase found at the scene. So it's like, well, you know what I bet was in that suitcase when it went mysteriously, when it vanished was those other colorful shoes that someone really liked.

I'm saying, and all the skirts and pants that she probably didn't hang up because they're not blouses, right? Like, you hang up a blouse and a leather jacket, but probably not like a pair of pants necessarily. So was the thought then that someone came in, shot her, and then something must have been in the suitcase and they just grabbed the whole thing and left. Okay.

I believe so. I mean, I think that's one of the running theories, yeah. Isn't it crazy that, like, we could have avoided a lot. Like this feels like although in some ways really good spy work, it also feels like really sloppy spy work. Like why wouldn't you just leave the suitcase? Like to go through with gloves on, whatever you need to find in that suitcase and then just leave the suitcase. Because they heard someone at the door. They had to get the fuck out of there. Oh, right. Okay. So there was time is of the essence. Totally totally missed that part. And also if they sent up a thing and someone was in the room with her,

they could have said, sure, yeah, confirm. Totally. We'll pay the bill. Right. I don't know. I mean, that's a great point too. It's like, oh, no, I got it. Yeah. And those 15 unaccounted four minutes that we never get surveillance footage of, they could have just waltzed right out of there. We used a master key, locked the door. So then what do you think is that earlier gunshot to the pillow?

Do you think, like, he missed? I don't know. I don't know. That's a good question. And, you know, into a pillow would be quieter. Yeah. but not silent. But the people next door, who Lars also found, said they were out to dinner that evening.

So they didn't, they wouldn't have heard anything anyway. Which also feels a little perfectly timed. Like, why would you, as a enemy spy, when you want to know that other people aren't around so it won't get reported? I feel like everyone was kind of getting watched on that floor to see when the perfect time would be to make a move. Or am I overthinking it? Wait, what do you mean? Sorry. on which, like as the people next door who were out of, out of the room when this happened,

I feel like that's pretty convenient timing unless the guy who maybe shot this woman knew that they would also be gone. Like I feel like, it's a Saturday night at a hotel, like, to go out for dinner. Could have just probably guessed. It was a couple and they were interviewed and they were like, we went out for dinner with friends or whatever. Like, we came home, we came back and there was crime scene tape and we didn't even know what happen until we watch the news a few days later. But I feel like the killer probably also was

watching them and everything just to make sure that the exact moment was right of like, well, no one's here. Like I feel like there was a lot of monitoring. Well, yeah, you would have to, right? It feels like a spy movie, right, where you would like escape out the stairwell and make sure no one's tune into the camera and see that no one's coming down the hallway. Like, yeah, it does feel. Which also in my mind makes me feel like, I'm running with the spy theory fully now, by the way. Um, that it's hard not to honestly. I feel like then they were probably dressed as a cleaning lady to be able to check all the rooms to make sure nobody was around.

True point. I know it's like a silly little thing, but I would, if I were on a mission to do this thing and I didn't want to get caught and I'm in a very public space like a hotel, I would want to know every floor near me. But then why wait until right when the guy knocks? Yeah. I don't know. And also like you don't have to kill her at that second.

You can just not answer the door. I wonder if someone was already in there though and like holding her hostage or something. And like it was like, like, wouldn't she just wait? Yeah. I don't know. Fuck. And there's no sign of a struggle.

So she could have been drugged, right? And like incapacitated in some way before. And they didn't test for drugs. Nope. Fuck, Christine. It's like infuriating. It's crazy making. Okay.

So this is the last thing I want to mention. So the journalist, so Lars asked this intelligence guy, like, what do you think it is? And he said, I can't imagine it's. anything but a professional job, a professional hit. But the thing that nags at Lars is like, how is she able to get into this hotel with no ID, no passport? But like then I'm also like, that seems like it would be part of the intelligence operation. Like somebody would have the strings to pull.

If we're talking Israeli, Palestinian heads of state are staying at this place, I'm not saying they're doing anything, but I'm saying if she has some ties to some security force, I'm sure that they're able to provide her with whatever fake passport ID, whatever. That part, although curious, is the least of my concerns. Yeah, I'm like, that one I could explain away pretty quickly. That one I feel is explainable. And also, apparently, it was like extremely busy this time of day. Like, he's like, it's also could just be an oversight.

Like, they were like, we'll get your passport later. They can also be like, how many times have I met my mom at a hotel and she already checked in and then handed me the key? She could just walk into that lobby and just gone to a room that was under the name whatever Fairbanks or whatever it was. Yeah. And someone else checked in with that name. So then she wouldn't even be seen at the... I don't know. It could be anything.

It could be. She did check in, though. She was the one to check in. I do know that because she was seen checking in and she filled in the form. Right. Right. But... I am so mad.

That's how you know. Okay. So last thing I want to say, her body, they had her, Lars, because he's been on this awesome mission, had her body exhumed in 2016 to obtain DNA samples. so they have DNA samples. It has not matched to anyone yet, but they have it in the database if anybody, you know, is able to put theirs in and see like, oh, finally a familial match. They did DNA analysis, which suggests European ancestry, possibly East German origin.

And I will add that when she checked in, she was speaking German and English. They said she could speak German and English. So can spies. So can spies. And like you're thinking, you know, you think like 80s, East Germany, Berlin Wall, yeah, Cold War. It just, to me, it screams by. I know that always seems like such a stretch, but like it does.

Despite renewed testing, no idea has been made to this day. Forensic testing suggested she may have been approximately 24 years old, but we don't know for sure. She became known as the Oslo Plaza woman because nobody really. really knows who she is. And speculation about her being in the intelligence somehow is based on the alias, the clothing labels, the acid removed serial number, the very sparse belongings, the missing stuff, the lack of identity. I mean, all of this, all this weirdness.

But of course, no intelligence agency has confirmed involvement. I think if they did, I wouldn't believe them. Yeah. Now, this is odd. Lars went and found. It's incredible. He went and found the person who was staying across the hall from her that the night before her death. Wow.

Okay. This guy, he calls him Mr. F because he lives in the French part of Belgium. French speaking part of Belgium. He calls him Mr. F because he doesn't want to dox him, I guess. And he couldn't get a hold of the guy. So he went to his house. I didn't want to dox him, but I went to his house. But so I went there myself.

went there and said it's like that TikTok trend where they're like finding people who write like Nazi comments on shit and then like go to their house and they're like I could find you. Yeah so Mr. F he lives in Belgium and so this guy

goes and Lars goes and finds him and he asked him about that day and the guy he had checked out that morning okay so this happened Saturday like afternoon evening he had checked out Saturday morning he had checked out Saturday morning but he was in room 2806 the night before

which was the room where the room service was accidentally almost delivered Okay Do you remember that? Yeah, she knocked at the door Yeah And he says When he checked out

So Lars said like do you know anything about the Oslo Plaza woman And this guy Mr. F says Yeah, when I checked out The people at the front desk told me about it and Lars was like it hadn't happened yet girl it's so weird

and then this guy like ghosted him he like won't respond to him anymore I think I mean I would be paranoid too I'd be like I've said too much now I'm gonna die like I would I would back out I would be so excited to say something and then regret it later

and like what does this mean especially if it's a fucking maybe spy situation and like death has already happened then I'd get paranoid of like oh maybe you were like a double person and you wanted to see if I would talk and I did and now I'm I would totally panic. I'm thinking this guy's involved. I'm like, what the fuck is he doing? Something shady about Oh, you think he was like not telling the story accurately on purpose. I don't know. I don't know if he

knows something. I don't know why he's saying that they told him at the front desk when that's impossible because it hadn't happened yet. So how could they have told him at the front desk? I like either we're seeing it too different ways. Maybe he's like remembering like maybe it's a false memory like it's so many years later. I It's just odd. I took it as he was the person who brought it up to him accidentally divulged, divulged, information too early as if like it was clearly a setup and going to happen and the plan got revealed early by accident to this random guy.

But you took it as, oh, he is like trying to cover his own ass and he gave information that is contradictory. That doesn't, right. Yeah, that's how I took it. I don't know. I think that's how Lars took it. but I mean, no, not that he's involved. But I think Lars took it as like, this is an odd inconsistency that

bears some, like, looking into, and the guy just won't respond. And there was nobody else staying on the other side of her. So it was just that couple who was at dinner, the guy across the hall, she feels like a clue. It does, too. Like, I crossed the hall with the room service. And then weirdly also, there was a newspaper in her room that, like, every room got a newspaper delivered. And hers had a different room number on the, like,

as if somebody brought it to the wrong room or maybe she picked it up. But it only had her fingerprints and then like one other set of fingerprints on it, which I'm guessing is whoever delivers them. But it's just all a little strange, you know? Yeah. Interesting. It's odd. Anyway, so that's the story.

I'm really hoping that like with advances in technology, they figure out who this is. Now they have a DNA profile. Yeah. Yeah. That's really hopeful. It also says something. that nobody ever claimed to know her. Like if they knew their friend was missing.

Well, that's the other spy angle is like, how do you get, how do you end up? And the way, oh, I should mention how the guy described how this would happen is that if you did, so this, sorry, I'm getting all excited. The Norwegian intelligence guy that I mentioned, who I quoted, he said,

the intelligence agency would have gone to the family and just say something like, here's some money. Your daughter is a hero. The government will take care of your family. I'm like, oh, okay. And it's like basically stayed quiet. We'll have you set up nicely. Your daughter died for a country.

The end. Okay. And your family wouldn't say anything. And I'm like, interesting. I don't know. It's just really unsettling all of it. Hmm. Okay.

Well, hey, you know, this feels very symbolic because just like how I keep having to sneeze and my body won't let me just have the relief. This whole story, I just need the release of the information. And I'm just going to sit here feeling like stuffed up or backed up and be like I just. You're waiting for the beat to drop. Yeah, I just, I'm going to be thinking about this all day. It is. And no wonder why Lars got kind of like. drawn back into it. I get it. It's like it's very alluring in like a scare. And there's so many more

details. Like I won't get to everything but because I can't. But like the watch she was wearing and they auctioned it off but they have pictures of it. And so like he was looking into like the battery specifically had a W on it. And in German the word vexon is sometimes put on a battery to say like it was changed on this date. Like the battery was replaced in the state. And like just things where it's like oh and she spoke German. So maybe that's like like you get down these rabbit holes. that are just so wild. What a skill set. I want Lars to come looking for me

if something ever happens. Oh, who is this man? Don't you worry. Who is this bad? Yeah, yeah. Oh, man. Well, I do, you know,

I think my favorite category of stories you cover is mysteries in a hotel room. They're really creepy. Because you'll never know. It was behind a closed door. I mean, you did one last week of that guy falling down the fucking

already forgot. Into an alley. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, what the fuck? That was creepy too. Like, all these are really creepy. Yeah, and that was odd as well. Also, like, Elisa Lamb, like, the hotel ones just somehow are,

they're, like, sinister. Mysteries at the hotel really get me, because every single one of them, I feel like I am going to solve this. And by the end, I go, nope. Oh, if only. If only. Only. Well, thank you everyone for listening. I've just, I've just taken up a lot of time. I'm sorry, but we're happy you're here. We're happy you're around. And I don't know. I'm going to go pee again probably. It got this big B. And you better go lay in it. I better go, better go lay in it. I think that's what it was. Yeah. Go lay on it. Go back and lay on it. Still sounds so odd. But I am.

Thank you, everybody. And we'll see you next week. Hopefully with not one that's so long. But I guess this week, this one was for the cleaners and the road trippers. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And the fall of sleepers. And the fall of sleepers. And that's why we drink.