And That's Why We Drink - E477 Rat Directions and Pantsless Ghost Hunts

Episode Date: April 5, 2026

It’s Episode 477 and we’ve been doing some ADHD Spring cleaning! Today Em brings us a little palette cleanser story with the lore of The Monkey’s Paw, the classic tale from our childhood that we never read. Then Christine covers the deaths of Debby and Mark Constantino, friends of Zak Bagans who we just can’t seem to escape recently. We’ll catch you next time for our totally real and not green screened interview from the Jersey Shore House… and that’s why we drink!If you or someone you know is dealing with domestic abuse, confidential help is available 24/7. You can call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE (7233), or text the word "START" to 88788. In an active emergency, always dial 911.Want to listen ad-free? Join our new Certified Yapper tier for $10/month on Patreon! Ad-free episodes starting at E469 at: http://patreon.com/ATWWDPodcast !Catch our bonus Yappy Hour intermissions on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3L28lDw or subscribe on Patreon!___________________Save 20% Off Honeylove by going to https://honeylove.com/drink ! #honeylovepodFind and cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitor your spending, and lower your bills with Rocket Money—join at https://RocketMoney.com/drink.Go to https://helixsleep.com/DRINK for 20% off sitewide, exclusive for listeners of And That's Why We Drink.Head to https://chime.com/DRINK. It only takes a few minutes to sign up and And That's Why We Drink listeners can earn up to an extra $350. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Let's talk groceries, specifically your groceries. With Instacart, you want your groceries just the way you like them, right? Well, the Instacart app lets you do just that. They have a new preference picker that lets you pick how ripe or unripe you want your bananas. Shoppers can see your preferences up front, helping guide their choices. Instacart, get groceries just how you like. When Westcham first took flight in 1996, the vibes were a bit different. People thought denim on denim was peak fashion, inline skates were everywhere.

and two out of three women rocked, the Rachel. While those things stayed in the 90s, one thing that hasn't is that fuzzy feeling you get when WestJet welcomes you on board. Here's to WestJetting since 96. Travel back in time with us and actually travel with us at westjet.com slash 30 years.

Christine literally just said, hey, you have experience with the Helix mattress, don't you? And I said, why surely 10 minutes ago I did. Yeah, I said, you talk about it. I know you just have a lot to say. We both do, but I'm going to like hand the mic over because I know you're just rearing to tell people about this helix mattress. There's nothing I love more than my helix mattress.

First of all, my favorite hobby is sleeping. So already we were starting on good terms, me and this mattress. Then I laid down and I could hear angels sing. Let's put it that way. This is like not a joke. I do remember the first time I laid on my mattress. And they were not a sponsor at this point. And I remember going, oh, my God, I'm a real adult.

Like I felt like I've made it, you know? Yeah. I mean, my back, I'm one of those people. Unfortunately, I will just always have problems with my bones. And, man, my back feels a-okay on a helix mattress. I just came from a bunch of hotels where I was not staying on the world's best mattresses. Let's just put it that way. And every morning I woke up, and this was the sound. It was not angel singing, by the way. It was this. It was, oh, getting out of the bed. And it was a choir from hell, just kind of groaning. It was a choir from hell. It's exactly right. And, you know, with my Helix mattress at home, none of that. Beautiful, beautiful stuff. It's award winning for a reason. Go to Helixleep.com slash drink for 20% off sitewide.

That's helixleksleep.com slash drink for 20% off site wide. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know that we sent you. That's helixleatsleep.com slash drink. Welcome to the day after the Hannah Montana anniversary. Okay. When this comes out? Oh, no. As we're recording.

Oh, okay. Because I was like, I thought that you just experienced this. Okay, okay. Hey, how are you feeling? I didn't even say peeling and you know I wanted to. I heard it. Don't worry. It really, it was screamed into my psyche.

Say it anyway. How are you peeling? Oh, bananas. It feels bananas. over here. Got them. I, um, it was really wonderful for those who celebrated, um, yesterday was the 20th anniversary of the Hannah Montana premiere.

Um, Miley Cyrus manifested this. It was not even supposed to really happen. She just started saying it on carpet. She was like, oh, yeah, there's a big anniversary thing happening. And then her lawyers were like, what are you talking about? And she was like, be the, this is what Gandhi's talking about. You know what I'm trying to say. Be the change you want to see.

Fucking be the change, you know. It's like, get it, girl. Yes. Love that. So I was very excited about that. Allison threw me nice little shendig. Love that. Oh, I saw that.

Wow, you had a whole out. By the way, that little patio is looking fine. Oh, thank you. It's still very, here's a thing. Oh, my God. I was like, this looks just like, I appreciate what you're saying. I appreciate the words, but I don't agree with you because I,

there was a time. When Allison was gone and I was trying to surprise her, I had these big plants, big big plants. Oh. Where I was like, oh, I'm going to buy all these like plants and make it very lush. I wanted to look like an escape, but I wanted you not be able to see. Because it's basically just concrete walls back there. And I was like, I want to hide all that. I wanted to feel like you're in like a fairy garden. But all these plants. She ended up extending her stay, as we all knew.

And I didn't know how to take care of the plants. And they all died. All died. Oh, good. Oh, good. I'm sure Hank liked to be involved also. He was shockingly okay about the plants. But I was worried about that also. But anyway, I had a vision for how it was supposed to look. And to me, it just looks so white and baron and i just i like just wanted i don't even know if baron's the right word bear bear but it was i just got so overwhelmed when alison came home and i was like it doesn't look like anything i wanted it's like i wanted their like lights everywhere and anyway oh you'll get there you'll get there i listen i know that frustration and that disappointment so well like if you had told me that six years after moving in this house like if if i were to see what it looks like right now in this office

I would be devastated because I had such like dramatic plans, right? But it's like it's been so many different things. And then I changed my mind and my style. And then like, oh, I had a baby. So like I made a nurse. You know, things, I feel like projects just kind of become more nebulous. And like as you grow into your house, it'll become much more. I think you're, well, that's because it's funny.

You mentioned that I'm on the flip side where you're like, oh, this room doesn't look like anything I wanted it to. And I've always thought that's like the coolest looking room. So well, I guess look around and you'll see as you've probably, you can probably imagine well, just how absolutely behind anything you can see is just fucking hurricane tornado. You've always said that and I've never been as overwhelmed as you make it seem. Oh, fashion show at lunch. And this is, this is after a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot months, years of a few. This is a brave moment.

That's not as bad as you think it is. It's not as bad, but that's the after. That's the clean version. Are you wearing like the Hope diamond or something from Titanic? What is this? You're like the third person to ask you about it. It's just my little scarab from Egypt. I love it.

I've never seen it on you before. Oh, thank you. My therapist also said something and she's like, is that a little beetle? I don't know. It's getting a lot of, it's giving off some energy today, I think. It's got a lot of play. A lot of play. Yeah, I love her.

I got her at a jewelry store in Egypt. They told me it was something special. and I probably got totally suckered, but I love it. Well, no, it's very beautiful. And you're, I know, I know that you are constantly have an overwhelm about how your house may or may not be clean. But as someone who's been in your home, I have never been as overwhelmed because I think you fear. That really, that really does, that really does soothe me. Thank you.

I do appreciate that. Because I really sometimes, I'm like, are people just like, what the fuck is wrong with her? No, I've never thought that. I'm pretty good at hiding some stuff. So I think like typically when people come over, I'm just like, you know, mess goes in. It just gets shifted from room to room. Totally, totally. But now that I'm getting myself healed up a little bit, I'm like, oh, I don't need to hold

on to this like straw wrapper because like my ex-boyfriend gave it to me. You know what I mean? I'm not there yet, but I am proud of you. Yeah, thank you. I still have things. Like I mean, Allison got me a hand of Montana wig and now I'm going to have to hold onto it until like the 50th anniversary. You know what I mean? I'm talking 2006 like trash.

from like Dunkin Donuts that like there's no like what no nobody wants this nobody even knows what it is it's just trash what is happening you know I again I have also I have been there where I've also collected and held on trash because in my mind it was like this was the burger rapper like it has meaning yeah but luckily I tucked it away in a memory box for so long that when I saw it again I was like I don't even remember what this is for and then threw it away that's what I mean it's like what is this fucking trash? Like, I barely even know what this is. And I was like, it's so important. And I'm like, it's just like weighing me down. You know what I mean, brother? I've, I do. I recently tried to go through my memory box and I always think, oh, I'm going to go have this massive declutter. Like purge it. Yeah. And then I always end up only getting rid of like two things. And then I'm like, when it's in a memory box, I'm kind of like, it's tough to get it out of there, I think for me.

Allison is someone who does not hold on to anything. And so the fact. that I have like a massive tub. It's really beautiful how how she's able to be like minimalist in that way. It shouldn't be me. It makes me kind of worry about her. I'm like, there's nothing you want to hold on to? I'm like, what about when I go? You're not going to hold into a single thing.

It's the Buddhist way, right? It's like, oh, everything is fleeting. Don't cling, you know? I guess so. The memory's here. I'm a hoarder. I'm saying this is a hoarder. I'm just, I'm talking out of my ass.

Okay, do as I say, not as I do. Well, no, I'm more on your side because I'm like, I just want to hold on to, if something happened to her, like, nothing would go. Nothing would go. And I feel like she just like shovel my stuff out. She'd go, finally, I can get rid of all those Pokemon cards. You know, she'd be like, what are these? Yeah. Totally. Yeah, totally. I did tell her. I was like, we have to have a serious conversation about my Pokemon cards. You cannot get rid of those. Like, you have to get those appraised or something. Contractually legal. You put it in a will or something. I gave her a list of people that cannot, she cannot give it to. I was like, if you. You don't want them. That's fine, but do not donate them to these people because they're going to use them for evil, you know? Oh, right. We don't want that. Mm-mm. Mm-mm.

What is your, I don't know if this is helpful or not. Maybe I'm talking you into the wrong things. But in your finding your collections of things, has there been anything that you are really happy you found? Like instead of, like, trash? Is there something you found? You're like, oh, I'm so happy that I've kept that. I really like that thing. Oh, so many things.

I found so many things. Actually, I know it doesn't look at, but pretty much everything on that bench is stuff that I'm, like, keeping. But I need to now put back. Like, I put everything out of there that was donation or trash and already got it out. So that's just like what's left. So there are some like special. That's all that's left. Sorry, that just processed.

Oh, you should be really proud of yourself, Christine. Thank you. I am proud. But I, but sometimes I'm like, it took six years to like get to a point where I'm finally like seeing some clarity. Like we, I had some, I don't know if it's the Adderall or what, but the other day I just had this like, I went upstairs after, like, Leona went to bed and I walked into my room and I looked at our closet and I cannot look at our closet. It gives me such anxiety. At first I thought like, it must be a ghost. And then I'm like, oh no, it's just like this like black hole. I mean, I don't know if you've seen it. It's like in my bathroom and it's just like you can't even get in there. And then I realized I had this like moment where I turned the light on. I'm like, are there towel, extra towels in here? I'm looking around like some of the stuff we just pushed in here. we moved in and have just not touched. Like, yeah. There's a big tub of Blazes Scrubs and it was COVID.

So, like, they just got put right there. They are still there. And I'm like, oh, my God, the stuff is like right where we go every day, you know. And so I had this moment. And I realized then that all of Blazes t-shirts that he wears every day are in the back of that closet. And I'm like, hey, babe, do you climb in here and go back there in this like little cave every day? And he's like, well, yeah, that's where my. And I'm like,

what's the matter with you? Like my weird fake pink fur stole. You have to like push past it every day. And I was like, if I were you, I would hate me. I would like divorce me immediately. This is like untenable. And he's like, oh, it's fine. Anyway, within an hour he came upstairs and I was like, go look in the closet. Totally redone. He's like, what happened? I just like completely. I cleared it out. I had trash bags. I had donation. I had like stuff for Leona. I had things, suitcases we forgot we had. I had everything. And I had. in a place and I had his shirts right there because I was like, good for you. That's nice. Anyway, then I stayed up till two and played Yatzi on my phone, but like, it was deserved. It was deserved. Thank you.

No, I'm very proud of you. That's, uh, it's nice to acknowledge, even though he didn't even need it. But that's the beauty of being married to a blaze. I was like, he just doesn't give a shit. And he was like, wow, that was, that's great. I like, he's now very happy. And I'm like, he would have just not minded. But I'm like, no, I wouldn't.

I want to be better than just like, you know, oh, I don't mind it, you know. And it's like what, I mean, to have to push past my pink stole, I couldn't take it. I couldn't take it anymore. That's funny because I'm sure I've got something similar to a faux pink stole. It's probably a faux green stole. And I probably just tell Allison, push past that. Get your own clothes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Actually, don't touch that, please. Actually, can you like really carefully edge around it so as not to get your finger grease on it? I just like, please. I mean, remember, less we forget in Canada when I got. got that, I went to that store just for drag queens and I got that big Lisa Frank pink and yellow leopard jacket. Oh, and then you had the, oh, and then you had the audacity compliment, not derogatory, to meet Eva and me at the skytop bar wearing it. Yeah, it was in and we, and every head turned. That's exactly right. That's what I wanted. It was a bit of a formal restaurant.

I didn't know that when I walked in. Our friend. I didn't know what I walked in that, that it was going to be such a showstopper for everybody. Wow. But whatever. No, but I have jackets like that and it doesn't even occur to me that Allison should ever, that I should move it for Allison. Oh, God,

sorry, Alson. I have the, speaking of audacity, I was like, why are blades of scrub still here? And then I'm, like, climbing over, like, 16 pairs of shoes I had in college that I literally have not worn a single time since,

you know? And it's like, I'm like, why are his scrubs still here? Like, what's wrong with me? I'm going to give you some grace, because I also, I think I can't imagine being in a house where you can shove things into a closet and ignore it.

Like, I mean, that's just, it's very out of sight out of mind. That's part of the problem. Yeah. As, I mean, I have complained about how I wish I lived in a bigger space many times. But one of the added perks of it is that, like, there is no room for clutter. Like, so if there's no tucking something away in a corner. So I really had to, like, force myself to. to face that?

Why not keep it? Yeah. We might need it. It's an almost empty helium tank that probably won't work by next year. Like, oh, but I'll carry it upstairs to the office. And then like three years later, I'm like, fuck, I forgot I had this up here. Like, what do I do with it? You know, it's like, it just doesn't work like that.

If I had the space, there's not a chance in hell I would have donated half the stuff I have. Exactly. Yeah. That's a really, okay, that also comforts me too because there's a running joke in my family, which is I just yell. I need a bigger house because, like, we can't find rooms for some room for something. I was like, I need a bigger house. And then I realized my mom used to say that.

And, like, she also has very similar tendencies of just, like, not being able to let go stuff. And I heard myself going, I need a bigger house. And I went, all right. That's funny. The mom signs are shining through. I yell it every day and I mean it. I'm like, I actively wish something was cluttered. I hate how, I hate how, I don't know, it feels like a weird side, like pat on the back.

Like, my house is so clean. I can't stand it. I, like, I need to live in a place where I feel like I can. can leave shit around without the whole place feeling disgusting. Is that something that you're able to like do or are you just going to leave it like this then? No. Well, I mean like like an addition on the house or something. Mm.

I just mean like is that something you can work on in the at the house or is that like you're just going to like kind of say, well, that's that's my life now. No, for now. It's a that's my life now. I mean, the dream is that we, I could like add on and have like essentially a troll hole where I can be dirty and disgusting. But we just don't have that right now. Allison's not and you just don't want it in the main living area.

Yeah. So there's really the bedroom and then this room. And so if the living room is a mess, then sitting in our kitchen, I can see the mess. Like it's just, it's just always there. Where did you have it before? Was it like hidden away? Troll hole, right? Of course.

Because Allison and I shook on the fact that like, as long as that door was closed, she did not care what it would look like. Totally. And I really miss that. Yeah. So anyway, I, I, in a weird way, and I'm sure this is not helpful to your therapist, but I envy you that you can. No, it's super helpful because it's like, oh, it's a different perspective, right?

Like, I hadn't thought of it that way. And it's like, oh, yeah, that does encourage the habit of keeping stuff I do not need or helping other people store stuff, which like I don't necessarily have a lot of that. But like just anything, it's like, oh, sure. I have plenty of space. Yeah. So, no, it's a good perspective. That being said, though, sorry, I think there's a lag.

So I feel like I keep sounding like I'm stepping over you. But to that, I feel like a little cheers clinky to you for like finally only having that stuff in your room. But that's like important stuff to you. That's huge. Thank you. It's really distracting because it's like journals and stickers. So I just keep being like, oh, I'll work on this pile. And then I'm like looking through sticker books for like an hour.

So the ADHD part, I've gotten this far. and I'm like letting myself kind of just at a moment, you know. That's in the, the most annoying part when you are decluttering is once you get to like the nitty, gritty stuff, it doesn't look like anything as being accomplished. Yeah, I didn't feel like it's moving as much. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Totally true. Well, thank you because I know you always appreciate that kind of aspect of having a home. It's a loaded one. I'm very jealous of you in all your space, but I can also see that being such a accidental. It's also haunted space. So even when you're here. sometimes I think you're a little more hesitant about my space. Only the parts where I've had ghost experiences. Yeah, which is most of the space, I would say. Oh, I told you, right?

I already told this story about Leona in her room and. Is there an update? I don't think so. No, the last thing, that was the last thing that happened. And then was that last week? Yeah. Nothing really. Oh, she's really scared of wolves.

You did say that. Oh, my God. And then I tried to do something last night. I've really fucked up, dude. Like, I don't. I mean, I really don't think like this is like a big, big deal because I'm, I feel like I'm equipped to handle this with her. And I think maybe if this had happened to me, maybe it'd be more of a problem because I didn't necessarily have the tools to or the people around me didn't have the tools to handle it. But last night, I really effed up.

I read her this book that I bought that I thought was like perfect because it's about this little kid who's like, there's a bear. out there and I know it and like it's kind of funny because it's like you can believe me and it's like all this like fake stuff and it turns out it's like all pretend or whatever but it turns out at the end there is a bear it's just a friendly bear and they are in the bear's house it turns out and so then leona literally said to me don't you ever make me look at that again and I said okay I would be frozen in my I'd be like one happened. What just, what did I just do? I was like, she literally, I tried to put it in the shelf. She said, don't put it in my shelf. And I said, okay. She's like, burn it. Literally burn it. So I tried to tuck it in to like the armchair to like stand up. And she goes, don't leave it in my chair. And I said, okay, I'm going to go put it outside in the hallway. And she's like, but there could be wolves out there. And I was like, I've really effed up this time. Like, I've really effed up. For a second, I thought you were going to say I really effed up because I taught her about werewolves where it's like, keep anyone, anybody. person could be a wolf. She's had books on

werewolves and she was six months old because like people, you know, she's in and that's why we drink babies. So she got all sorts of spooky books, but somehow that's not what scares her. Ghosts not really what scares her. It's wolves. Well, so is this book that you gave her that you thought was an

excellent, which I could see what you were thinking. By the way, during this exchange, because she is like pissed off. Blaze texts me, I thought it was cute and a great, like a great idea. And I was like, well, Well, thanks. Was her reason for being so upset that like the moral of, she took the moral being like can confirm when a kid senses that there's an animal in the woods or an animal nearby or a monster nearby that they're right and therefore I'm right when I think all these wolves are around?

I think so. And I think also like in the book, it's like really beautifully. By the way, if you have a kid who would like this, it is gorgeous. Oh, I was not going to say I'll mail it to you, but I will. because by the way I said oh how about we mail it to your cousin Elliot because he's like three but I'm like he I think he could handle it and she goes no you can't do that to him and I was like wow okay we're feeling a lot of feelings about this book it's so cute and it's like beautifully done but the art it has this kid like wow like screaming and I think she just got very like activated

right away and then like kind of stopped listening about like the the jokey parts like when it was like oh, a sign of, like a sign of a bear is super itchy feet. And I'm like, isn't that silly? And she was just like, already like, where the fuck is this bear? Yeah, I don't have fucking time. Where is this bear? And then, of course, the eyeballs appear in the darkness. And I'm like, okay, maybe I should have looked at the page. I mean, honestly, it's not scary. Okay. She just has a very, very specific niche fear right now that I think I accidentally tried too hard to address, you know. I understand. And I don't even think you mentioned. And I don't even think you mentioned. And I thought it would have, it's funny how a kid's brain or an adult's brain just totally don't click sometimes. Because I would have been like, oh, I'm. I even told the shop person. I was like, yeah, this is why I'm buying it. Yeah. I'd be like, you were slowly like, oh, it's just, they can be silly. Yeah.

And it's a bear, not a wolf. Like, I felt like, oh, we can kind of do like. I would have actually thought because she's not scared of bears, this wouldn't even do anything. Hey, guess what? Now she's scared of wolves and bears. She's becoming fucking Dorothy or whatever, like lions and tigers and all this. I just am like, well, okay, I've loved that. But anyway, I've been told to get rid of the book, but never give it to a child because it's only for adults.

Okay. I'll take it. Yeah, I mean, it's adorable. I love it. So, you know, I'm going to keep it and don't tell Leona, but I'll keep, she's going to find it somewhere random, like, by accident and fucking have a meltdown. She'll, like, if you leave it in the attic one day, she'll, like, it'll all come back to her. I'm going to put it in like her, like, creepy antique trunk that I bought her off in a state, too. Anyway, that is why I drink.

I'm so sorry. I'm just drinking my water today. What are you drinking? I'm drinking unfavored, though requested, highly flavored ice tea. I had, I sent out for it. I said, give me extra pumps of lavender. They said, how about fucking zero? I had the audacity to say, maybe next time you should put extra syrup.

And M holds the cup up and it says, like, requested extra pump of syrup. And I'm like, well, consider me fools then. Extra me a fool. Extra pump. And I'm like, yeah. Well, it's, I, it's almost like you saw the plus sign and chose a negative sign and said, how about. Another stupid question, did you like mix it up? Could it be like in the bottom?

That's what I thought too. But I don't, usually you would see like purple on the bottom and I don't see any purple. So I don't know. I don't know. Not meant to be today, I guess. That's okay. We both have boring drinks, but yeah, as Em likes to say, have some water. Drink up you.

Em doesn't say have some water. That's my take on it. That's the nicer way. No, I say you thirsty little effing rats, have you drink some water. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You get real nasty with it. Yeah. Thirsty little rats, TLR.

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At Honeylove.com slash drink. And after you check out, they'll ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them that we sent you. Experience the new standard and comfort and support with Honeylove. Okay. Well, I have a story for you. TLD are thirsty little drinking rats. thirsty little drinking rats. I have a story. Although this is a shorter story because I harped and harped for... Allegedly, we'll see when the timer runs out.

The last three episodes were all about Zach Bagan's. I was like, let's just do a pallet cleanser. Let's just get off that. And a while ago when I did the girl with the green ribbon around her neck, I got a lot of people asking me to cover more scary stories from our childhood. So, and I would like your memory of this if you have one because I'm curious what your experience with the story is. But this is the monkey's paw. Okay, that's one that I feel like every now and then I hear about.

And then I'm like, I vaguely sort of, like if I look directly at it, I don't know what it is. But I feel like peripherally I sort of do. But I think someone like Blaise's family talks about it. But I don't really know it. I feel like it became like it's almost like slaying. Because the moral of the story, of course, is be careful what you wish for. And I feel like people have now used the phrase monkey's paw instead of saying. Right.

Like, oh, well, don't let it be, don't let it be a monkey's paw or like something you wish for. I don't remember. I think this is one that kind of escaped me. Okay. So I remember being in class, in English class and having to read this, but I can tell you with full confidence, I don't think I read a single fucking book I was ever expected to in English class. I was like, even in the class, you were just like staring. I was actively caught many times looking up like the cliff notes online as we were in class.

Wait, wait, wait. Oh, what age were you reading this? I think it was like ninth grade. Oh, I was picturing like elementary school and I'm like, how were you Googling Cliffs' notes? Okay. I thought this was like the girl with the ribbon where it was like a kid's story. Sure. And for all I know, I have come up with a timeline where I was actually much younger.

Oh, I see. So you. So here's the thing. Just to make matters worse. So I had a Mr. Feeney for my English classes where from sixth grade until I graduated, I had the same teacher. So I don't really- So you can't escape that.

Yeah. I don't really know what age I was. Time just ceases to exist in that context. Yeah. She was just from 11 to like going to college. She was my English teacher. And most of it was in the exact same classroom. So I'm guessing I was like 14.

And once you establish that you cement that habit, you know, in that room, in that environment, you kind of sunk. I think that's why she caught me so many times looking up the cliff notes by the time I was graduating because she'd seen me for the last seven years. It's just like you start to see the pattern. Yeah. Anyway, I think she was probably the most surprised when we wrote not just one but two fucking books. Anyway, so sorry to her. And also, I don't really remember, I don't remember reading it.

I remember like bits of it, but I, but kind of as bullet points, not as, the story itself. Maybe you were like, remember it from the discussion, like the class discussion or something. Yeah. And there were a few times where I would, I would hear the discussion after we've allegedly read the book. And I'd go, oh, shit, that sounds like a good book. Every time. Every time that would happen. And I would go, well, fuck. Now I want to read it. And then they'd go, now here's the next one. And I go, that looks boring as hell. And then like, listen to the thing and go, that's what this was about? Like, there is a sexy scene? What the fuck? Exactly. Yeah. I remember her being like so obsessed with Wuthering Heights and the fact that there's a movie out right now,

I just know she took the class to like a field trip to see it or something. Oh, and G. That was the only book I read in high school and I was like, I love this book. And then sometimes I'm like, wait, I probably would have loved a lot of the books because like, that's the only one I read and I liked it. So I'm like, I probably would have enjoyed them, but no one will ever know. I wonder if English teachers allow audiobooks as an option now because I would have really thrived if I could have listened to the book versus reading. it would have completely changed the game. If I am to affect an English teacher listening to this, please let your children just listen to the book instead of read it.

That's really a good point because I love to read. And it's not like I hate reading. It's like in high school, I did not have, sorry to say, the, I know, I think a lot of kids don't, teenagers, like the contacts, the time, the space, the privacy. like there was no way for me to read a book like have the time or read the but like I also didn't have the fucking care I just like I had I like didn't really care either but I just knew like there was no space for me to care like my stepdad would literally turn the power off at night so that we couldn't read like in high school like so I didn't even and I'm not making an excuse it it's like I could have read the fucking book right but that's it that's a good point that like you don't know what's

going on you don't know what's going on someone's house yeah and I wish I could have read more and then I got like a five on the AP English exam and my teacher accused me of cheating and I was like, you are a bitch. Except I just cried instead. I only took one AP class and got a one and it was deserved. I was very bad at all school. In Germany, one is an A. I wish you were there. I wish you were there.

You got to go over there and tell my mom that I got a one and she went, are you fucking kidding me? You should tell my German mom and she'll be so proud of you. We should have swapped moms for the day. We should have. No, I think I was obsessed with anything visual. In hindsight, I've said this a million times even as an adult, like dry text, I just couldn't lock the fuck in. And had I known there was an audiobook version and in 2026, when you could,

to speed it, like press it, make it go faster, if I knew that instead of reading a book would take me an hour, it would take me like 20 minutes if I was just listening to it. I would have been so much more likely to actually follow through. So anyway, maybe we're making excuses. I don't really care. I mean, it might be an excuse, but it's also just an explanation, you know? Like, it's not necessarily an excuse. I don't have, like, I should have read the books, of course, right?

That's my, I'm a student. I'm supposed to read the books. I didn't. Most of them. I, uh, I just, I actively, I have no excuse. You think I'm going to read grapes of wrath. Like, I can barely hang on at, to like, a semblance of sanity. and you want me to read grapes of wrath.

Please. I don't have an excuse the way you do. I just actively didn't read. I saw that my homework for the night was to read these three chapters, and I went, well, I'm not going to do that. And then I... Like, it's also important to know what you want and what you don't want. And I think that's something to be celebrated. Well, for the first time ever, I read a monkey's paw last night.

So... Oh, are you changed? No. Okay, good to know. You weren't missing out. Yeah, I feel like I... I think I was, I never read the books, but then during discussion, I would kind of pick up on enough cues or like I kind of got the gist of it at least. And I know that's not what any teacher wants to hear,

but I picked up enough where I could bullshit my way through. We're Gemini's. That's what we do best. And from what I gathered in those discussions, same thing. I really thought this was, because in my memory, like I know one thing happens and I thought, oh, that's just the beginning and it's going to get scarier. And this one I was like, oh, I think that was like actually the scary part and I didn't know it at the time. Like, I think I, will you tell me? I think I have no idea what this is. Excellent.

Excellent. Excellent. Excellent. Okay. So, um, here's the monkey's paw. Yeah, bring it on. This is your book report. This is my version.

This is the cliff notes I would have paid attention to when I was 14. Oh, God. Sorry, there's like a fucking coffee state on my shirt. Okay. Beautiful. Thanks. Um, okay. So it's a rainy London night.

Mm. There is a family. of three in the house. This is the White family. Mr. White, Mrs. White, and their son Herbert. Herbert is a grown man, by the way. When I first was reading this, I was like Herbert's 10. No.

Herbert's a little infant named Herbert. Herbert is an adult. Okay. Mr. White and his son, Herbert, are playing chess. Mr. White, I added this in because I did actually, in honor of my high school days, I did go look at Cliff Notes just to see if there were any things I should be adding in here. Oh, that's interesting.

Because otherwise I would have just deleted this, this part. I'd been like, why the fuck do we care? But apparently... I feel like on your Cliff's notes is like, been a member since 2007. I had to log in with my old high school. 1998. No, but I was like, you know, this was taught to like children in English class to like stimulate their interest in reading.

So there must be something important here. And so there's like foreshadowing and symbolism and all that. So I was trying to... So I'm adding... I'm keeping the things. in that an English teacher would give a shit about. The themes and all that. Good, good, good.

So Mr. White is a, we find out, while he's playing chess with his son, he's a risky chess player. He's making impulsive choices here. That's the foreshadowing. Red flag. And his wife... They call foreshadowing red flags.

That would also help the youth, I think, understand. Actually, if you're an English teacher, if you just want me and Christina come to your school and just, like, actually just talk shit about the book, it will stick with them longer. I think so. Because you're totally right. If someone said red fog, I would have been like, oh, I'm going to clock that for later.

Like shit. Yeah. I feel like that's like a fun new angle. Should we just be teachers now? I guess so. I don't know. I don't think I'm cut out for it. I'm too sensitive.

I'm far too sensitive. I think I'm not sensitive enough. And then I'm also. And then also like, I don't have to. That's way too much work for me. I can barely clean my house, let alone teach people. I could hear you draft. dragging a cigarette when you say that. I mean, really, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would never survive. Props to the teachers. I, I just, you really do some work that's hard, hard work.

Well, if you're a teacher and you don't really feel like teaching your kids about the monkeys paw, just let them play this as the audio book that I was talking about. And then, I think that this sounds pretty similar to what it probably is. Okay, perfect. So everyone. It's the em's notes. Could have used that. Okay. So they're playing chess. Mr. White, risky chess player. His, his wife the mrs white she's just chilling next to them and uh i guess mr white starts complaining that they live really far out of town and maybe that's why their special guests of the night hasn't gotten there yet and you're like oh who's this creepy little guest that's coming um it is not a monkey i thought it was a monkey when i was i thought donkey for some reason then i went why did i think donkey and i'm like maybe this is one letter off of monkey well i hear monkeys paw and then i hear an interesting guest is coming and i'm like it's obviously the monkey and he's like it's either a genie

a bottle. Well, I don't know. You go on. Well, very close. So, um, okay, so they're, because you said careful what you wish for. I was like, where did I come up with that? So it was, uh, yeah. Uh, so they're, they're complaining, oh, you know, we're so far out of town. And maybe our guest isn't even going to make it. Well, the guest does arrive and he knocks on the door. And it is, I guess Mr. White's friend from back in the day. And he's a military. And he's a military. man named Sergeant Major Morris. I'm just going to call him Morris from now on. And I guess Morris has spent like 20 years overseas working in India, which this, this

story by the way comes out in 1902. So maybe it's more normal back then to not see your friends for like 20 fucking years. Yeah. But that one blew me away. And how do you keep in touch? There's no Facebook. How do you keep in touch 20 years? No wonder.

They're so worried. And also like, how do they know he's coming tonight? like if he's just kind of like meandering his way 20 years across okay maybe this is why families just lived in the same house for their entire life because what if someone from your past forever needs to know where you are yeah yeah oh yeah could not be me so anyway mr morris i know he's sergeant major i'm sorry sergeant major morris he he's finally in town i don't know how they arranged this that's not my business he shows up and he's sharing stories of them about his stories of them about his travels and Mr. White goes, oh, yeah, well, Morris, what was that story you were just telling me

about a little bit ago? I'm assuming in a letter. 20, oh, I was like, what, 20 fucking years ago? Let's not be ridiculous. Okay. I guess what you're saying is a letter. Okay. What was that story you were just telling me about Morris, the one about like the monkey's paw? And then Morris gets really fucking quiet and he's like, we don't need to talk about that one. I know. The suspense is boo-pies. Speak up. And Mrs. White did, by the way. She was like, like, now, no, no, no, no, no. This is why I hang out by the chest table.

You're a guest in my fucking house. Tell me about this monkey spot. And he goes like, no, I think his exact words, I think, because I did not, I just was kind of gibbering on. Because the Cliffs notes didn't have direct quotes. He says something like, that's hardly worth mentioning. Like, let's not even get into it. Ooh, okay.

But he does mention, which like the stupidest thing in the world unless he wanted us to keep asking questions. He goes, it's hardly worth mentioning. It had like something I do with like, it was, it was about magic. Oh, he's baiting them for sure. And the family, who I'm assuming lives in the middle and nowhere in the same house for 20 years and only their only fund is chess and writing letters. Hey, by the way, he's a risky chess player. That's the most depressing sentence I've ever heard that this man and his son are risky chess player.

Like, that's what you've got going for you. You're not even like leaving your, you're playing with your, you're playing with your. Only one person. I can't deal with this right now. So first they lean in and they're like, well, you just said magic. So fucking pipe up. Oh, my gosh. So the guy, he goes, all right.

And so he digs through his pocket. He literally has this thing on his person. He was like, oh, this whole thing. I guess I'll bring it up. I'm not going to talk about it, but it just happens to be exactly in my favorite pocket. So he digs through his pockets. He shovels around. He pulls this thing out.

And it's a dried up literal paw of a monkey. Cool. I was hoping like that was metaphorical. Not in 1902 Got it It was very much like I remember when I was a kid I got a rabbit's foot and I was like

I found out I picked yeah I found out a year later It was a literal fucking foot of a rabbit And I was like Well this thing I've been snuggling up with has to go in the trash Hey love that for what did what did you think it was my friend I thought it was something metaphorical

Because I was like why on earth would I be holding a A random body part It's a dead animal and then they like paint it pink And you're like oh that's cute And it's like wait what the fuck It was green I was like This is obviously like a stuffed animal foot of a stuffed animal rabbit.

And then you look at the little claws and you're like, holy shit. It has toe pads. When I realized it was hard inside because of bones, I was hold, I was just carrying her out an ankle, you know? And I was like, well, this has to go in the trash. Ankle, that's so fucked up. I literally, I've been like, do rabbits have ankles? Because it was so soft, I would rub it on my face all the time.

Ah! M, you need to have, you need to read the cautionary instructions that probably don't come with the rabbit's foot. No, but I just heard like, it's... That's like the equivalent of like lab rats that you just like buy to feed your... Yes. Feed your pet snake, you know? I know.

Oh my God, I can't deal with this right now. This is, I just can't deal with this right now. Side note, speaking of rats, I will say the biggest surprise last night during the Hanovertery that Allison threw me was we were watching outside. We have a projector. So we were watching outside. Oh, we got derailed by the yard. Yeah, you had your Hannah Montana night.

I'm sorry. And the biggest surprise of the entire thing was a rat ran through our yard. And that really. ruined the vibe. So if you know what's due about rats, please tell me what to do. That feels like a Hannah Montana episode though. It does. Like a rat runs through and like no one believes her or something. Or she's trying to hide the rat from somebody. I pray there's only one. But you never know with these things. And after the roaches, we're both pretty traumatized. So if you could just tell us what the fuck to do, that'd be incredible. Thanks so much. You're not talking to me, right?

No, no. Just anyone who's a rat expert. I was like, certainly you couldn't be asking me for help on this one. Okay. And I'm not one of those people who fucking likes rats. If you're a rat person, congratulations. Do not tell me we should trap it and be friends with it. Fuck that. Absolutely not. Yeah, you did just say you want to hear from rat people and I feel like you should be more specific or rat experts you said rat experts. People who'd want rats as far fucking away from them as possible who have dealt with this. Please let me know. I just just thinking about Justin Whaley and I feel like we I feel like we owe him a call or two. What an obscure reference to people who did not go on our tour. When I tell you two days ago I was driving down the highway and my brain went

Justin Whaley and I went, is he here? Did he die? Like, I have no clue but I was driving, but my brain just went, Justin Whaley. And then I think it was because I saw like this van that had a big snake and it said pest removal. And I was like, what a fucking Wackadoo van. Like they've like clearly handed this. And I was like, it looks like Justin Whale. You know, it looks like Justin Wade. Like that literally wouldn't leave my head. So anyway, you say rat problem, I say. Justin Ray? Get him on the horn. Well, Justin Whale. I have. I think he cared about snakes or something, though, right? Wasn't he a snake man?

Yeah, it was more reptiles. That's true. That's true. But I'm sure he could like point you in the right direction. That's right. That's rat. It's right. I'm sure he could point you in the rat direction.

Like, are you Southern or did you just say rat? Where are we with this? Okay. Oh, oh, rabbit's foot led to, monkeys paw. To rats. Mac monkey paw. To reptiles. so um so he throws this little dried monkey's paw on the table um and basically he tells the family

that oh i got this in india there was a practitioner there who put a spell on it to show people that you know to not mess with fate if you mess with fate you'll regret it and this monkey's paw will show you if you have any doubts about that so basically the spell that this practitioner put on the monkey's paw it it was up to like three people were allowed to have this experience or to test their belief in fate, where one person would own it, they get to make three wishes. And then a second person would get it, they could have three wishes. A third person would get it.

They could have three wishes. And then I guess the curse is broken. Oh, okay, okay, okay. And then it's just like a paw, like a rabbit's foot. Yeah, that part is not discussed. Hmm. That part is not discussed. Maybe it just has like limited magic, you know?

You can only use it a certain number of times. Sure. Like he, like the spell has an expiration date. Like wears off. Yeah. He's like, on average, three people will get through this before I have to do it again. Yeah. Sure.

We know all about Indian magic. Yes. We're on to it. So Morris says, seems resentfully, that he is the second person to own this monkey's paw. Gasp. And the first person, the person he got this from, did, in fact, ask for three wishes. And those three wishes were granted. But there were so many.

tragic hijinks that came from his wishes that the third and final wish, the original guy, requested was to die. Oh, Gaspah! He was just like, I just, I wish deaf because I... What the fuck? So, and then somehow, Morrison ended up getting it. They really gloss over, like, did you know that man? Or, like, did you just pick it out of it?

Did you steal it from him on his dead body? Like, how do you have this thing? But anyway, he's the second person to have it. And I guess he has also regretfully requested for wishes to be granted. And he says, I don't even want to talk about it. It's too, too much for me. This is, this is a bad situation. He's asked if he could go back and start all over and ask three different wishes, which

ones would he ask? And Morris goes, I have no idea. I don't know what I would ask. and then he just looks at the monkey's paw and he throws it in the fire. And the whole family is like scrambling to get it out of the fire. They're like, what is wrong with you? What is wrong with you? Like, if you don't want it, we'll take it.

Like, we'll be the third people. Oh, because they want the magic of it. Okay. Yeah. And all Morris says is better let it burn. Oh, spooky. So the family then say, like I said, if you don't want it, we'll take it. And Morris says, you can have it, but don't blame me for what happens next.

So it's it's survived the fire. It's survived the fire. And I do wonder like how many wishes did Morris get? That's what I was going to ask. Did he like get, I guess maybe throwing it in the fire was his like severing from it? I don't know. Wouldn't you, yeah, I don't know. Or maybe you pass it on to a new owner and then you're freed from it.

I have no idea. You know. Clearly I was not reading this in high school. Well, I also don't know like the rules like if you haven't had all three wishes. Is it still secondly your job and is it like now best? to you. Yeah. I don't know.

So anyway, they're like, we'll take it. Fine. And he immediately thinks to make like some sort of silly wish. And so he's about to make like his first wish, Mr. White. He's about to make his first wish. And Morris grabs his hand and is like, if you're going to make a wish with this thing, you better be fucking smart about it. Like don't like, be careful.

Uh-oh. And then he leaves. He's like, I'm out of here. Yeah. Oh my God. Wow. So he just got rid of that thing. Yeah.

The story went. know why I think he showed up. I think he showed up because he told him about this fucking monkey paw in a letter. And this guy, Mr. White, was like, I must. I want that. And he was like, well, perfect because you can fucking have it. I'm going to come all the way to you. You and I think similarly because I was like, if I had this horrible cursed object that I wanted to get rid of, I know a guy from 20 years ago and I know where he lives. Why don't I just start writing him and catch up and pretend like I've got some crazy stories? And he seemed way into it. So like, why not? we're god we something's wrong with us that we think that's very sick very sick um but i was like i i could see that happening so he ends up leaving for the night and it's just the family and basically they ask oh well you know the kid and the wife are asking mr white oh if you were to ask for a wish what would you wish and he was like i don't know i kind of have everything i've ever wanted i have no idea what i would ask and his son goes oh well we need to pay off the house like then you know, if we're thinking about like, you know, being rich and famous and maybe we could be

royalty or something crazy. Like, why don't we just test it with just paying off the mortgage? Like a simple, easy. Yeah, that's a harmless one. Like nothing bad can come from that. Let's just pay off the mortgage. Oh, my God. Here we go. And so the mortgage, by the way, was 200 pounds, which in 1902 was the equivalent of

today's $10,000. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And so. A big chunk of change. What's that? Big chunk of change. I'm opening my THC Seltz soda.

I just, I need it. I need a moment. You know what I'm saying. I know exactly what you're saying. We want to hear the first sip. Oh, okay. Okay, well, it went actually everywhere. And we didn't hear the sip, by the way.

You heard a snort, though. What flavor is that? Oh, it's lovely. It's salted watermelon. Love. Looks excellent. Again, no sip. But I'm going to imagine it was incredible.

There you go. Okay. Delightful. So Mr. White, he says, okay, yeah,

let's cover the mortgage. And so he holds the monkey's pop and he says, I wish for 200 pounds. And then he like, kind of freaks out and throws the monkey's paw. And everyone's like, what's your deal?

And he was like, I felt it moving my fucking hands. Yuck. And the family ignores it. They're like, okay, whatever. Like,

even his mom, his wife was like, you made that up. Like, you're just, you're overthinking it. I'm sure nothing. actually happened.

Yeah, yeah, you imagine things. Let's go to bed. So they go to bed. They wake up the next morning. Everything's normal. The sun goes to work. That's when I found out the sun is not 10. Uh-huh.

But also in 1902, maybe he's like a little newsy or something. He's like building the Titanic or some shit. Yeah. And so a few hours later, all of a sudden, Mrs. White sees a mysterious man in their yard. And this man is acting real dodgy. and he is like clearly wanting to go to the door but he's hesitating and he like walks up to the door and then like retreats. Ooh. Ooh.

And then he walks up to the door again and he retreats and he walks to the door and he retreats. And then after those three times, he, I guess, gets the courage and he goes up to the door. And Ms. White goes, are you okay? Like, do you want to come inside? He comes into the house and he unfortunately has to tell them. Something happened to Herbert at work. And there was a machine incident. No.

And he did not survive. No. And of course they're distraught. The man now says, like, you know, I work for his company and we're aware of the services he was providing. And so as compensation, we would like to give you 200 pounds. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. What?

What? A door. Hello? Hello? you're scaring the shit out of me oh my god it was Hank Jesus fucking hell you freak the shit out of me

I can lock you in we don't have a lock on the door oh oh oh yeah we have we have a door that doesn't it like the latch doesn't move so you have to like shove the door to like in or it's like shove it out yeah yeah anyway no so I heard her yank the door open

Oh, oh, oh, yeah, that was startling. I mean, I'm already kind of creeped out by this story, I'll be honest. So, um, so that's how they ended up getting their 200 pounds. Very, be careful what you wish for. My Amelia Bedelia, dumb ass thought it was going to be like, oh, and then all of a sudden he woke up and he had gained an enormous amount of weight. Like 200 pounds. And I was like, and he couldn't work anymore.

I literally thought like, oh, they weren't careful with their words. I'm such a, but that, okay, so I do remember. remember this part from high school and this part has definitely fucked me up in a certain way because there are times we're always for something or like in my head like or like whatever the closest to like prayer would be for me like speaking to the universe I've always noticed that I get oddly specific like like in a way where like the sentence stretches out to like a two minute three minute long sentence where I'm yeah well I think in that case you can kind of be like you know with my my best in high is good in mind, you know? I think you can usually like cover it with a statement.

I don't know about magic pause that move in your hand. That part way above my pay grade. But I think if you're just doing a simple prayer to the universe, like, they'll, like, your guides will be like. I have actually, it's funny to say that because in my more recent years, I have started just saying the blanket statement of like, you know what I mean. Exactly. Exactly. Like you get the intention here. it's yeah yeah yeah the words don't have to be perfect but there there was a time where I was like oh you know and you know I hope that this happens but also not in a way where anyone gets heard and also not know where this happens and anxiety and then you were like raising the Catholic Church you're like and this person then someone dies and you're like I didn't pray enough for them and now they're dead you know it's just nuts interesting I'm sure there's ties I'm sure people have compared the story to the overlaps in that interesting because this certainly does feel like one of my first insight into having anxiety. So it's now, by the way, this story I didn't even tell you is in three parts. Oh, okay.

Oh, well, three wishes, I guess. What's that? Is it like three wishes? No, that's what I thought, because it saw part three and I went, oh, that'll be the final wish. But it's just beginning, middle, and end, basically. Okay. It's like story structure, which I could see why an English teacher would teach that. Uh-huh.

Yeah. boring. I know. That's what I thought. I was like, really? Okay. And also I was thinking like in the world of like cinema where it's like like, like

like in Avengers movies. It's like little fight, big fight, biggest fight at the end. Oh yeah. A finale fight. I was like, oh, there'll be a finale wish. Oh, the day new mall. The day no more. Yes.

Peace of resistance. Oh, beautiful. Crem de la creme. A lot of French. Climax. Anyway. Anyway. So, okay, now we're in part three, by the way.

Wait, what? All right. That's what I'm saying. I got to per three. I was like, really? I was like, I'm ready to buckle in for like the longest episode ever. Okay. Nope, we're at the end. Oh my God.

Okay. So I mean, it's terrible, right? Okay. So the kid dies, right? Yeah. The kid or maybe like the 60 year old man dies. I'm still unsure of the 10 year old. We're really unclear.

Yeah. So it's been a week now since Herbert died. since his funeral. The couple's obviously grieving. Mrs. White is frantic, like frantic, frantic out of nowhere. This is after a week and a half of him being gone. She was completely silent.

The house was silent. And then she, like, like, totally freaks out. And she goes, I totally forgot about that monkey's paw. We still have two more wishes. Oh, yes. And, yeah, you're going to bring him back.

Oh, no. So she france. Because I would do it too. I would do two. Anyone would, yeah. Yeah. And so she. like is panicked and like she's acting like super frenetic that's the word you use she's very

is a good one frenetically demanding her husband go get the paw from downstairs go get the paw make another wish for herbert to come back and mr white does not want to he like has it in his gut he was like i just saw what wishing for yeah a fucking mortgage paycheck to our family and the guy before us told us that it ruined his life the guy before him wished to die like i don't want to do this. And so now after learning these like harsh consequences from a simple wish, he, he doesn't want to do it, but he also admits to his wife, like, I'm the one that had to view his body after a machinery incident.

And I'm telling you that he was unrecognizable. And I don't, if we bring him back, what does that mean? Is he like, does he look like that permanently? Is he a zombie? Is he, is the, are the injuries so bad that he is no longer? himself or you know right uh and so he's like freaked out in that way too he's like i don't even know what that could mean like or if he comes back do you die do i die what happens right good point um miss white is obviously just like yeah she's out of her mind at the fact that there's even an

option that her kid can come yeah so she's forcefully like i don't give a fuck make this wish and she even said something like you think i'd be scared of my like son if he looked different. Like, he's my son. Bring him back. And she was so intense about this. And he was so hesitant that Mr. White, even in the story, is claiming that that the room feels off. Like, the, the walls are, like, morphing a certain way. He's saying his wife doesn't even look like herself. Like, he's, like, everything just looks totally warped from reality. Now, this is where I say, why wouldn't Ms. White just grab the paw herself and make the wish? Because it sounds like... Because I think it's like the third person. I think it has to be like three people. You know what I mean?

Well, because my thought was it sounds like their friend never finished his three wishes. But maybe he did. And maybe we just don't know what. Maybe he's like pass this on to someone else or something, you know? You're right. You're right. I mean, I'm not right. I have no clue. I've never read this in my life. But, you know, that's my, I don't know. Well, so Mr. White, he says the room feels off. Everything is feeling really dark. The energy is super heavy. And his wife is yelling at him, make the wish, make the wish. And so he gives in and he says, I wish my son was alive. And the monkey's paw once again twitches in his hand and he throws it freaked out, which is what I would do if my fucking rabbit foot ever twitched.

Oh, that's a, that's a goosebumps book for sure. Mrs. White runs to the window and looks outside all night long. She's like, he could come at any moment. He could come at any moment. And she waits for a sign of her son to return. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

After hours of nothing happening and just sitting in silence, the two of them had to bed and they believe that a wish just didn't work. I don't like where this is going. Both of them laid awake and the room felt so heavy that they couldn't sleep. So Mr. White gets up to light some candles. Because remember, there are no other types of fucking light at this point in time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You want to play chess?

In the dark, like Christine, which is why she couldn't read. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I should have gotten me a candelabra back then. You would have really done wonders of a candle. I wasn't allowed to own matches. I'm not making it up. Well, so he goes to the stairs to light his first candle. And the lit match blows itself out.

Ah, you hate to see that. And then he hears... Oh. Just a gentle knocking at the door. Uh-uh. And he cannot move. He's frozen. And then all of a sudden he hears it again.

And then he hears it again. And then he hears, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, on the door. Did everyone like that? It's a campfire tale. First time, and that's why I drink history, I'm just slamming on things. You're just like doing Foley work over there. Thank you. Let's call it what it is.

Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang on the door. And Mrs. White runs out of the bedroom and runs over to Mr. White. And before she can even get downstairs, the door is still banging and banging and banging. And Mr. White grabs her arm and begs her not to open the door. He's like, I have a really bad feeling. Do not open the door. Do not open the door. Dread. Dread. He can send something as off, but his wife does not care.

And she screams, let me go. I'm coming, Herbert. I'm going to let you in. She breaks free from her husband's grasp. They're still banging everywhere, banging all over the door. She breaks free from his grasp and runs to the door and she starts unlatching the door. But there's a final bolt that's too tall for her and she can't get it. So she's frantically screaming, help me unlock the door. Help me unlock the door. And he's just standing there hearing bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. and panicked and desperate she's begging for him to help she's even grabbing a chair and dragging it over so she can stand on the chair and unlock it herself because he's moving too slow what she doesn't know is that he's actually on the ground on his hands and feet looking around trying to find this this monkey's paw so he can make a final wish before she gets to finally open the door oh and so he's just hearing bang bang bang and her crying and screaming and saying i'm coming herbert i'm going to come let you in help me unlock the door frantically seeking this and he's like where the fuck is that this paw where the fuck is his paw. Meanwhile, the door is still banging and the knocks are getting

louder and heavier and his wife struggling is getting louder and heavier. And Mr. White, looking for the paw, finally finds it right as she is unlatching the last lock. And he makes a third wish. And we don't know what the wish officially is. But when she finally opens the door, nobody's there. And she runs out, he runs out into the street. Nobody is in the street. Nobody's around the house. And the story ends with assuming that Herbert has returned back to the grave. And it ends with him just hearing his wife crying that her son is officially gone. Holy shit. Now, to me, when I look back on my experience pretending I read the book and trying to guess how it ended.

I can picture you on a stage someday. When I look back on the experience of pretending to read this book. Well, I remembered that the son, they made a wish. and somehow through like the chain of events, the sun died, even though that was nowhere near the wish that they asked. I remembered that part. And I thought, well, surely that's the first wish, because I know that three wishes happen,

and that's got to be the beginning of hell. I did not know that the second wish was going to lead to something we don't even see the results of, and the third wish would just be closing out the story. And I remember thinking, well, no wonder I only remember the sun dying. The most tragic thing happens in like part one. Yeah, yeah. And also I think what's supposed to be,

like beautiful writing about it is like we never know what the third wish is and the third wish is whatever you need the third wish to be and I'm like tell me what it is just tell me what it is like and I have to assume it's like I wish he goes back to the grave or but then how how come that one got tied up in a pretty little bow and that no bad consequences came from that but so we don't know but we don't know maybe he was perfectly healthy and he was about to open the door and he said and now he has to live with the uncertainty of like maybe his son was behind the door like perfectly healed, you know? And now he has to live with the uncertainty of like, did I just like kill him again?

Oh, shit. Okay, maybe I see where you're supposed to be the writer of the two. It feels like the movie Hereditary a little bit, that there's like the parental guilt and that's the dread that carries through the whole story. Right. It's like the pattern. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So in this, the foreshadowing, I just want to list some of the things that an English teacher would have been happy for me to note. now was the foreshadding of the risky chess playing and how he would impulsively make a wish without thinking it through. Although it feels like anyone would have made that kind of fucking wish whether or not you're a risk taker. Like pay off the loan is not like a risky wish either. Especially in 26, I'd be like, do you know how much fucking debt we're all in?

Well, but especially back then, it's like, what else? I mean, you have one thing that's like going to magically help your, like, your boring, sad life because you live in whatever year and there's nothing else to do. Yeah, just light candles. Except play chess. Jesus Christ. So that was the main foreshadowing. So your friends once every 20 years and then by the way they fuck you right over. Jesus.

What a life. So far I'm learning that they should have lived further in the woods and not, and they should have had less hobbies because talking to their friends was the problem. And maybe that wasn't even the sun. Maybe that was someone else coming. Like I can never know. Well, so that's actually, that's a great point not to be the English teacher all of a sudden.

but I did read quite a few analyses of this book just to like see if I was getting the full picture. And a lot of the discussion is often, well, what if the monkey's paw was just like a silly story that this guy told about on his travels and he threw it in a fire for the gimmick. And like it was just some fucking paw that he picked a ball on the way. And there was never magic. It just happened to be that the next day their son died. Oh, that's my favorite kind of story. They just happened to get compensation for that that equaled how much they needed. And then it's like the human nature of like sensing that means more than it does and yeah

trying to metal in your own life. Oh my God. And then someone knocked on the door and they weren't answering so they just left. Like it could it could be that the monkey's paw was never anything. Wow. Um, as for symbolism, the number three is a big thing in this. I did not see anywhere why three had the fucking matter, but there is at least a thread in the story of like there are three members in the family. The story's broken into three parts. Three different people can make three different wishes. Uh, the man that showed up to tell them about Herbert's death hesitated three times before going to the door. Mrs. White tells Mr. White to bring Herbert back and make the wish three times. Mm-hmm. A lot of threes. And apparently we care about that, but I have a fucking clue why.

Yeah. The Trinity, all that good stuff. Oh, the, see, this is what I need here, the religious element. Okay. Listen, I didn't get a five on that thing for nothing, you know. Every now and then. I would also, I could see why this probably didn't get mentioned when we were younger because of the times. But now in 2026, I feel it is important to note that a lot of more modern analyses will tell you that the monkey's paw is, say it with me, racist, because it came out during a time. This was written about a British family. And this monkey's paw was from India. Yeah.

And it was basically, it was a time in history when, um, The British really were actually very racist of India. I don't know where we stand today. I don't know where we stood before. But in this moment, they were notably racist to India. Well, yeah. I mean, yeah. And the fact that the not so subtle messaging in the story is do not trust India because

a cursed paw from dangerous India will eventually harm the British people. I mean, it is like a very British story, right? You've got like they go down to get the cursed king tut remains and everything follows a curse back home. And it's like, well, maybe if you're a shitty person and you're like, raping and robbing people's lands and like making them your own and like naming them after yourself then like maybe it's a you problem and not like the gross ass like monkey paul you picked up in india you know what you mean like that was literally part of some of the discussions i saw where they were like well maybe this is just um like what was coming your way anyway or

if you want to make it spooky maybe it was just karma in general and has nothing to do with like the fact that someone you don't know who's a different color than you as a practitioner. I totally like that angle of like, oh my gosh, this foreign monkey paw cursed me. And it's like, I like that angle you mentioned of like, hey, it could have just meant nothing. And like you created your life just kind of created this set of circumstances. And now you're blaming like this foreign. Yeah, that's a really good point. Well, also let's note that the family's name is fucking white.

Oh, yeah. I did. I almost said it at the beginning. and I went, I hope we come back to that because that's wild. So, okay, so it's pretty, I see why English teachers teach this. It's like a very, I can see the, I can see this. Yeah. So the white family and tragedy befalls them from entertaining Indian practices.

And India is so dangerous, of course. So anyway, that is something that hopefully gets noted these days. And there's a, I'm being very quick about that. Like, I was reading like essays about the conflict going on at the time in 19, or the Victorian era with Britain and India. It was a lot. So I'm going to end on some fun facts, which is that, and this did come out in 1902

by shockingly a comedy writer. And he was just dabbling in something new. And then this is the work that he's most famous for now, which is like such a weird kick in the crotch. I'm convinced comedy people have so, I mean, that's, we turn dark shit into humor. So I feel like it's a natural. like progression because I do feel like it sounds weird but I think it makes sense for like comedy people to go into horror like I mean what's his name uh from key and peel uh and like his horror you know what you mean yeah like Jordan peel he uh well I agree with you I just think it's also funny about like man all I want to know I want to be known for comedy and now it's just well maybe he didn't maybe he was just a humor writer and he's like someday I'll break into the real writing and maybe he finally did you know I don't think humor writing was necessarily like

the tip top in the Victorian era, but, you know. Sure. No, it was first published in Harper's Monthly Magazine, fun fact. And then he came out with his own collection of works, which I think the rest of them were comedy. And this was just like the standalone horror one. The collection was called The Lady of the Barge. Oh, my. I feel like I've heard of that.

Well, it was one of the other stories in there, but for some reason he named the collection after that one. Maybe that was the one he wanted to be known for, and you should just call it the Huffisball. He's like, this one's a banger. Also, the monkey's paw, fun fact, has been turned into, I saw 20, but probably over like 30 or 40 stage film and radio adaptations. Oh, wow. Including the Alfred Hitchcock Hour had an episode. Orson Well's Great Mysteries had an episode.

The Simpsons has done an episode. And my favorite was, are you afraid of the dark? They did an episode of this. Of course. Oh, well, you know what? I think I saw that. Did you? I think that's where my understanding.

of them and like I got a very let's say warped perspective of what that story is because I watched it on nick at night or whatever or whatever that it was on yes nick at night yeah and um yeah I also remember it I remember the Simpsons episode too but I mainly remember are you afraid of the dark and apparently the monkey's paw was the main influence for Stephen King's pet cemetery oh that's like actually one of my next couple books I want to read oh really because I finally read it So now I'm on to Pet Cemetery. I think all I know about Pet Cemetery is that like your, the dog dies and then he wants his dog back.

And then I think it's like, I literally don't know anything. I think it's a zombie thing. I'm not sure. But that's my, it's my vibe. And I, I've read it with like zero understanding except there's a clown.

And now I'm like, wow. Holy fuck. Yeah. There's, holy fuck. Yeah. I mean like parents used to like put books in the freezer when they were scared.

I feel like it was a big book that they did that with. Oh, and then you open it and there's like, climb on the front. Well, anyway, and then I was going to end with just the moral of this, apparently, is be careful what you wish for. But I'm going to add to that. And it's apparently don't trust India.

That was the moral then. Yeah, right. Yeah. And we have now, in a very flowery way, just changed it to a simple, be careful what you wish for. Well, I almost feel like it's like a satirical comedy on, like, this is going to sound like I'm making it up, but I'm not on colonialism. Like, I really think it sounds like the writer was writing it. to be like like subversive a little bit like it's just what it feels like to me or was he like writing it

to be like go white people no i i don't know because it feels so obvious the symbolism that i'm like there's no way he wasn't like trying to make a statement but maybe he wasn't maybe it was just like i think you're on something it does it it was written in a way where it could have been taken either way but i could see it just being a political commentary if you're like a humor cop if you're like a humor writer you would be doing something like satirical like dark comedy or like that is a great point christie like the like the the the the the jonathan swift or whatever the one um you know the hilarious the the modest proposal where we where you eat babies nope you should have paid a little attention in high school because this part wasn't this part

was interesting um it's like uh it's like a it's like a satirical essay from 17 1729 um which suggests that the Irish who were going through a famine eat their own children. But it was like a satire. But it was written as like, this is how we'll solve this problem. And it's called a modest proposal. Interesting. I'm going to just take a shot in the dark and say, yes, it's a political commentary. Because that, it could believably be that.

It's a very short read, by the way. It's like, it's a very short read if you wanted to read it. It took me half an hour. Okay. Which means it'll take you 10 minutes. I'm just kidding. But it was, it was a short read.

I feel like if you would, I would love to hear your take after you've read it if you want. But I'm just going to say yes, because that sounds like it would, that it would be, it would be that. Yeah. I don't know also.

I mean, I'll read it and I'll see what I think. This is based on the M's notes that I'm giving my commentary. So maybe I should actually read it first. But, you know, no, I remember when I first saw one article and it said,

oh, this is racist. And I went, how can that be? And then I went, oh, my, of course. How can that be? Yeah. I was like, I was like, because I didn't remember anything about it being British or the Indian. I just hear a monkey paw.

And I'm like, oh, boy, a cursed monkey paw. That's what I heard. I thought it was like, oh, you just found it from some creepy place. But apparently the creepy place was India. Oh, I just. Sorry India, by the way. Yeah, I immediately assumed racism. I was like, where else would you, some, some, quote unquote, savage nation, you know.

Yeah. That's exactly how. you're totally right. That's exactly how I feel like they wanted to come across. But to be fair, they didn't mention, like the reason I'm hesitant about saying yes to a bingo political commentary is because it was mentioned so quickly and they never talked about again. It's not like it was a running theme to like keep talking about it. Right. It feels almost like, yeah, good point. Like it's not about necessarily where it came from. But it was like, oh, our friend has spent 20 years in India and then he went, oh, I've, the sum practitioner gave this to me. I understand. And that's

And that would have been context that made sense at that time. Yeah. Yeah. But I also, I really like, I want years to be the right thing. Well, I mean, listen, I don't even, I don't even, I'm going to read it. I got to read it. I don't know. People, in the comments, please, if you know any more, I would like to know more about

this. But of course everything's racist. Of course everything's fucking racist. Well, yeah. That's part of it. I mean, that's unfortunately part of it. Yeah. Very cool, M. I like your retellings, especially when I forget the actual story, which is almost always.

Well, good. I was nervous that, I don't know, it feels like I'm cheating a little bit by telling a story. I don't know. I don't know why it feels weird. You cheated enough in high school. Why do you care now? We both did. I mean, I don't know that we cheated. We didn't really just do our work, though. So I did not get me. At least you're doing your work this time. No, that's nice of you to say because I was when I was doing the notes, doing the notes, not even doing this. I was just reading the story. I was like, I feel weird that I'm not doing more. Listen, you can read the story in high school. Now here you are equipped to read it and do a whole book report on it. Thank you. That's also like a lot of people.

Thank you. And then discuss like the racial implications. I feel like you should be like patting yourself on the back. Thank you. Although it was a very, there was one. Let me see if I can even find it. It's a lot of work you've put in, a lot of thought. If I can find the link, I will.

I mean, there was a few of them. If you type in Monkey's Paw, racial implications. I'm sure it'll come up. But there was like there was a few like journals written about it. So it was interesting. Interesting. I'm going to have to look into that. Well, very good work. A plus from me. Thank you. Nailed it. You got to what were we saying earlier. You got a one. I said you should tell my mom you got a one because in Germany that's an A and I'll somehow swap with your mom and tell. I don't know. I'll figure it out. I'll say in Germany and F. is a good thing. F means fantastic. It means fabulous. That's right. Yeah. Good job. Okay, I'm going to go P

real quick and then. Yappy hour? Did you say you have a sticker book? No. Oh, okay. Oh, I meant like I have all these books like that are like antique antiquarian sticker books and they have like all the different, you know. I was going to say if you wanted to show us your sticker book. Oh, no, I don't have that quite ready yet. Is there anything you'd like to show us? No. I've been doing a lot of tarot, but I could pull you a tarot card in practice. I've been doing readings for my brother. Or I could do, I don't know, I'll think about it. I'll pee and I'll think about it.

Okay. The first line says, share how overwhelming organizing finances feels for you personally. And I'm like, we just met. Like, my therapist can't even get that out of me. So, like, we are just so proud to partner with Rocket Money. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. You would think I only needed a rocket money once in my life, but I am someone

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Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you could grow your savings. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join at RocketMoney.com That's rocketmoney.com slash drink. Rocketmoney.com slash drink. Hello, we are back from Potato Talk, our weekly bonus show where we discuss which types of potatoes we've had this week. And M has had some of the most delicious looking ones.

So if you're interested in any of that for some Godforsaken reason, actually you're missing out if you don't see this picture of this fucking potato. You can go to our bonus yappy hour. which I should be in your feed. And now it's time for my story. It felt, it felt, it felt inevitable. It felt inevitable. It felt like the only sort of next step.

And I'm going to cover the murder, suicide of Debbie and Mark Constantino today. I don't know why I'm smiling and I can't take it off my face. That's horrible. That's horrible. But I'm so happy that you understood the assignment. We had to do it. We had to do it because, you know, we've done enough of, and at the beginning of this episode, you said, we're done with Zach Begans. And I thought, that's what you think, my friend.

I feel so silly. I don't know why I, I think I thought like, oh, I'll suggest you cover it, but then, like, maybe in like a couple months or something. Like, it didn't occur to me. It sort of took three times for me to go. It took your three-part episode for me to go, oh, I should cover that. Like, it took me a while. I'm slow on the uptake every now and then, but, like, I finally got it. Um, I'm pretty excited about this one because it. it is so relevant to, uh, your topics as well. And I feel like, um, it's, it's just, it's a dark one, folks. Okay. Uh, so Mark and Debbie, by the way, do you like, I didn't have much knowledge of these people before, uh, even during the Zach Began's years. I knew that they

were Zach's friends and I knew that they showed up sometimes. Okay, okay. That's about all I knew to. So I'll give you some backstory, Mark and Debbie, Constantino. Uh, and if you're unfamiliar with who they are, don't worry, we'll get to it. We'll get to it. Mark and Debbie Constantino were married in 1989. Debbie herself had a lifelong connection to the paranormal. She was raised in a haunted house. She felt like she had

a gift to speak with the dead. Meanwhile, Mark was a self-described skeptic who said he had never experienced anything paranormal until he met Debbie. And that kind of like opened his eyes to the whole world of the paranormal. Okay. Okay.

So together, they launched a website called Spirits Speak. And they marketed themselves to the public as experts most specifically with electronic voice phenomenon. And, you know, you think about this was like years ago. 2004 or something? Yeah, exactly. Like before there were like apps for this.

And, you know, so they were kind of the, some of the foremost experts on EVP usage. And they would utilize audio recorders and noise generators to, to capture EVPs. and they actually ended up teaching like a college course or like a college seminar on ghost hunting with their EVP knowledge. So this was like a big deal. And this is how Zach Begans kind of clocked them. Sure. Because you know he's got eyes on everything in the paranormal world. He's got the finger on the pulse. Which is why I'm so grateful he hasn't threatened anything with us yet. You know, it feels like we're still on the periphery though because it bums me out. I'm like to Does he not even care?

You know? Obviously not. No. So I was going to ask, do you, and maybe you don't have this information, but do you think they were actually like audio tech experts? Or were they just like people who discovered the phrase EVP before anyone else and just taught people how to use a digital recorder and empty houses? They got extremely good evidence.

And they had like their own content that they would make where they were getting like very clear EVPs. And so they, I wouldn't necessarily say they were like licensed in anything or like had like certificates, but they had a very good reputation for being like well versed in the EBP world. And to the point that Zach Begins would ask them to come help with EVP sessions like on his cases. That's how they got in touch. And that's how they got in touch.

And he brought them on as recurrent. guest investigators and EVP specialists starting in 08. And I bet you like, again, because that tech was like relatively new and like, I don't know, 08, like it would be help. You can't just necessarily Google everything yet. Right. Right. And if you know somebody, like you're going to just trust them. Yeah. And especially if they're like charming and like good personalities for television. Like it just kind of made sense, I think. And the two of them being a couple was like, of course a selling point, right? Because it's like, oh, this like power couple and they're these ghost hunter power couple.

100%. There are rumors, which like I want to be so clear are rumors. But there are rumors about like, oh, Zach was kind of like flirting with her. And like, you know, she was a pretty woman and like maybe he got to close. I don't. And like most of the episodes that feature them. I never got that vibe. Yeah.

I just, I don't know enough about it. Like I feel like that's kind of a wild thing to say unless you have proof, right? Like I don't know. I wouldn't say let's not like create fictitious stories, but whatever. Sure. So listen, our ghost adventures is a really like, it's a tough place. So that's all. I'll leave you with that.

Anyway, they have this website, Spirits Speak. Zach and the Ghost Adventures crew take notice of them, bring them on for a few episodes. and then it becomes like a recurring guest episode. They provided audio analysis for several high profile televised lockdowns, including the old Idaho penitentiary. I didn't even remember that it was in the list. Get out. Oh, and you know, I feel so silly.

I literally just walked around there and didn't even think about like, I wonder if Zach's been here. Like, it didn't even occur to me. Wow. Wow. Maybe I need to watch that tonight just so I can be like, oh, I was there. Maybe that's why I felt so safe in the women's door because I have a feel I think they did not touch the woman's ward on their investigation.

Right. Fair point. And like, I don't know. I mean, listen, it's like a bunch of bros and her going there, you know, and then she ends up being the victim. It's like, ugh, what a terrible full circle. I mean, yeah, yeah. Interesting. Interesting. Okay.

Yeah. So including the old Idaho penitentiary episode, the trans Allegheny Lunatic Asylum and the Washoe Club. Okay. Do you know much about the Washoe Club? I feel like I've covered it. And if I haven't. You haven't. And I looked it up.

Oh, then I'll do that. That'll be my next episode. That's easy. It's got to be because I watch some. I made sure not to watch all. Okay. That I like watched enough for this story. I just wrote down.

And then I was like, well, now it needs to do it. It's handled. It's handled. Now we know what next week is. You know, I can't stand about the butterfly effect that is Zach Bagan's, our big tattooed butterfly, is that every time, like I thought it was going to be. be one goddamn episode. And not even, I thought it was going to be, this was about a completely, this was about a random hotel. It wasn't even about him. Yeah. It wasn't about him. It was about a

random hotel. Then he showed up. Then he got like three fucking episodes out of me. And now this is your story. And now I'm doing the Washoe Club. Man. And by the way, like, he's like surrounding himself, like, I can't get away either because the Aaron hitman scandal or whatever. And then like now that, I mean, it's, or this first, then the hitman scandal's like, Jesus. Like he has trauma. And like, true crime. He would say cursed, I imagine. Yeah, he would. He would say a lot of things. Okay, so we're going to get to the washout club. So from the outside, like I said, they were sort of like a paranormal power couple. And because Zach was kind of giving them this like platform, um, that was bigger than what they had before, people were starting to like really get attached to them. And to this day,

they like people are really, really sad about what happened, obviously for obvious reasons, but also because they just felt really like drawn to these two people as investigators and TV personalities. They had a lot of fans. They toured the country lecturing at paranormal conferences. They even co-taught, like I said, a class on ghost hunting at Truckee Meadows Community College in 2012. However, behind the scenes, which we now know, but didn't quite realize at the time, is that their marriage was plagued by a long escalating history of domestic. violence. Right.

Very, very toxic back and forth breaking up. I'll get to the specifics, but domestic violence on both sides, just a lot of, a lot of, a lot of, just a hard, hard relationship. So the Mustang Ranch episode is probably the most, besides Washoe Club, I think, the most, like, the episode most referenced when discussing the couple, especially on Reddit because there was a weird moment on this episode that fans talk about a lot. There is this point in the episode. They're at this brothel, like this former brothel.

And Mark aggressively pressures Debbie to take her shirt off. And she like doesn't want to do it. And he like gets really aggressive and forceful about it. And it's like that's how we're going to get the ghost. Like you have to take your shirt off. And people kind of looking back are like, oh, God, like, that's a really big red flag. Like the signs weren't just there. The signs were, like, tattooed onto our eyes.

Right. And there's another episode people talk about. And again, these have mostly been scrubbed. So, like, you can find them. But, like, I didn't go seeking all of them out. But people talk about an episode where Mark also, like, kept saying, we should have sex in here because that'll, like, draw the ghosts in. And she was, like, I don't know.

And he was, like, just really. At some point, and I'm this, I'm not trying to blame anybody. However, like, cameramen, hello, no one was going to say anything. Aren't they the cameramen? Aren't they like their own cameramen? Isn't that their whole thing? Yeah, no one was being an upstander to that, were they? Well, and also, like putting that in the end in the show.

Yeah. But then look, like we have this fucking thing with Frankie, with Frankie Paul or what's her name? The Frankie, the Ruby Frankie. No, not Ruby Frankie, sorry, the Mormon housewife. Oh, I am unfamiliar. She was going to be the Bachelorette. And then they're like, oh, this video surfaced of her, like, abusing, physically abusing and assaulting her husband at the time. But like that came out years ago.

So it's like we already knew about that. Why are you like ABC thought they could kind of like just skirt that and no one would care question mark? And now they're like, oh my God. So they canceled The Bachelorette because people were upset. That's what that's about. I didn't know. Yeah. Yeah.

It's just kind of like, what are we doing? Like let's somebody, nobody caught any of this. You know what I mean? Like where did this get through production where you're like, oh, he's literally demanding she take her close up. But then I'm like, the people who watch this and like the vibe is just so different. And it was 2008, you know, and I hate to be that guy. But think about like YouTube back then.

people were literally doing blackface and nobody was like fucking batting an eye like it was just a crazy time i know he would hate this and i'm so sorry to throw his name in but i often call like the 2008 or 2010 era like the beau burdum era where like shock value humor was the thing yeah and so like it was the thing you wanted to be edgy you wanted to be edgy like that was a whole thing not to it was just like it was so normalized at the time and i and i and part of me like hopes that like maybe an editor kept it in hoping someone would notice like I'm trying to think of something but you're totally right that it would just be like nobody paid it to I mean and that's so sad that just shows like how like see something say something and how do you not see that

but like people didn't see it but nobody saw like I mean we could have watched that episode and probably what are we going to say you know yeah that's so sad it's sort of like yeah see something say something but it's also like they're a couple and like maybe they're having an argument I don't It's like it looks bad now, but it's like at that time, like, there was no, nobody watching like knew that they had a really tumultuous relationship. Like nobody knew that, right? You know, it's interesting that you, to hear about this after I covered like how Zach is like so weird about those episodes airing or like how he was acting so weird. He was like so hesitant to even mention Mark's name. I could see him just having like unbelievable guilt in hindsight like of just being like I was in that

fucking room and didn't say anything you know and like oh he oh in that room no he was not in that that it was like one of those camera captures where they're like in the bordello by themselves I'm saying as a producer who gets to like approve clips and stuff like he like probably didn't even see it at the time he probably was like ho ho that's funny you know and now it's like is it funny though. Yeah, I could see why he just, I mean, I'm, I know nothing, but I would assume he feels not too great about that now. I don't know. I don't know if he thinks about it at all. I have no clue. Sorry, I didn't need to go off on that tangent there, but no, you're good. It was just, you can kind of look back and see some of these like kind of red flag moments where you're like,

ooh, he's a lot more controlling than we realized. It's just like out of context didn't necessarily click. So the domestic abuse escalated in 2015. In March, Debbie was arrested after a fight over finances where she scratched Mark and allegedly sliced his arm with a kitchen knife. She was charged with domestic violence, but she never had her day in court. So that's why we're saying alleged. She never, yeah, she never got her day in court because something very terrible and tragic happened only months later. So just six weeks. before the final tragedy, Mark and the couples, which I didn't know this at all, that this part happened.

Their adult daughter Raquel and Mark, Raquel's dad slash her husband, Debbie's husband, kidnapped Debbie, like, ambushed her. This is August 2015, six weeks before the murder. According to court documents, they pulled Debbie out of a car by her neck, dragged her inside a house and beat her until her nose was broken and bleeding. What the fuck? Mark then strangled her until she nearly passed out. And so, like, this was six weeks.

This is where I started to get really just a... Ill? Yeah. Mark was booked on suspicion of first degree kidnapping and domestic battery by strangulation. And Raquel was also arrested for her participation. And kidnapping is generally. a no bail offense, but a local judge granted them bail. He got bail at $40,000 and she got bail at $30,000.

And because they were allowed to use a bond, they only had to pay like a small fraction of it. So they were like immediately released. Wow. They were ordered to stay away from Debbie, who finalized a restraining order against Mark one week before her murder. And because you said the whole like she scratched his arm at one point. So are both of them being violent with each other or was like, okay, I don't know if one was like maybe. She was arrested in March for assaulting him. Then he and his daughter kidnapped her.

Then they went to J. They were arrested, but then they got out on bail. I did not know if maybe it was like reactive abuse or like she only hurt them in retaliation. Well, we don't know. That's why it's a legend. We don't know. Okay. Because she just never got to give up.

context, you know. So very well could be. Yeah. Um, so and people also speculate there were a lot of drugs involved and, and when the daughter gets involved, it's like, then rumors start going like all over. So we don't necessarily know like the full context of it. Um, but I just want to add like I was reading this earlier and I just was so enraged by the restraining order section that, and I have to laugh because, a few days ago I asked Blaze a question and he said something like oh well that book that you're obsessed with um the gift of fear and I'm like I'm not obsessed with that book he's like yes you are and I'm like no oh maybe I am I don't know I mean I feel like I never talk about it anymore but like

there was a time period where it was like very it was like very relevant to a lot of stuff you're talking yeah I was definitely talked about it for a while and then I think like there were times where you would say like, oh, Christine's favorite book or whatever, you know. And so I think like it just became cemented because I was like, wait, what? But now I'm like, yeah, I guess I did talk about a lot. But so of course, now after fucking I have to eat my words because I have a little, a little excerpt for you here. This is an excerpt from, of course, where else? Your favorite book? No, the newsletter of critical risk management at the Medical College of Wisconsin. Oh, okay. Yeah. Oh, you didn't get it. You didn't guess that? Um, it's about risk assessment in health care, uh, and the use of, uh, and like suggesting, the value of suggesting people get straining, restraining orders versus suggesting they not get a restraining order and kind of the pros and cons. And here is a, an excerpt from this, um, this, um, this, what do you call it? This newsletter. Okay. In the gift of fear,

Gavin DeBacker writes, restraining orders are most effective on the reasonable person who has, has a limited emotional investment. In other words, they work best on the person least likely to be violent anyway. One category of such a person is the naive pursuer. People in this category are generally rational but unaware of the inappropriateness of their behavior. Because the naive pursuer does not intend harm and does not become angry when rejected, if an explicit statement to stop does not end the behavior, a restraining order could be an effective tool to stop the unwanted behavior.

By contrast, if the goal is to prevent a murder, the civil restraining order is probably the wrong strategy. However, that is exactly the strategy commonly employed by health care facilities that may fail to recognize, and police, that may fail to recognize a restraining order is a rejection. And rejection is a very common trigger to violence. Sure. Further, restraining orders turn what was a very private rejection into a public one. Sure. And I'm like, duh, people. It's like an embarrassed man as a dangerous man.

Like exactly. Yeah. Or however the phrase goes. But it's, yeah, it's like you are publicly shaming him and therefore he will react. It's like, what do you think's going to happen?

This guy's already tried to strangle you to death. And then you get a restring. You tell him make her get a restraining order. Like that's going to work. I just really, I just like this guy already breaks rules. What's paper going to do? The violent,

the violence like, it was already illegal to do that. It didn't stop him the first time. Now it's illegal on paper, too. Like, whatever. I'm just annoyed. Okay. I get it.

So let's get back to this. The event took place Tuesday, September 22nd, 2015. Around 6.30 a.m., a woman returned home to her northwest Reno house to find her 55-year-old male roommate, James Anderson, shot dead in the hallway. Did you know about this part? No. There was another person killed.

Had no clue. Me neither. She immediately called the police terrified because her other roommate, Debbie Constantino, was missing. Police ping Debbie's cell phone, tracing it across town to her daughter Raquel Constantino's apartment at the Courtside Garden Complex in Sparks, Nevada. Oh, shit. When officers arrived around 11 a.m. and knocked on the door, Mark Constantineo fired several shots at them. They did not return fire. They locked down the surround.

area, including a nearby high school. And through the barricaded door, they could hear Mark yelling, give me 15 minutes to gather my thoughts or I'll kill her. Oh, my fucking God. Hostage negotiators tried for over two hours to get Mark to surrender, having their final contact with him at approximately 1.15 p.m. And he just stopped responding after a while. Shortly after, officers heard a single gunshot, the SWAT team used explosives to breach the

apartment door and found both Mark and Debbie dead from fatal gunshot wounds. He had killed her and then shot himself afterward. Wow. So the day after the tragedy, Ghost Adventures host Zach Begans, we know him well, posted on Twitter calling it a very tragic dark day. And then following the event, the travel channel and streaming platforms quietly removed several episodes that prominently featured Mark and Debbie, including, of course, Mustang Ranch and the Goldfield Hotel. investigations. And do you know if that, because I, I didn't understand my, from what I was finding online, it was that Zach requested them be removed, but do you know if there was like, like, legally they felt like they should remove it? I actually don't know that I tried to find out if there

was like a personal reason, a legal reason. And it just said that they were removed and taken down. My best understanding was that Zach requested it, but I, I don't know if that's true or not. I don't either. I'm not sure. I have no clue. So within the paranormal community, right, there, of course, was a lot of grief and a lot of sadness. And a lot of shock. Like, you know, you see these people every now and then. They've become like characters you like and watch. And all of a sudden you find out just this horrible, horrible darkness that lived in their marriage relationship you had no clue about.

So there was, unfortunately, a bit of a disturbing narrative that. still continues surrounding this, which is that some fan suggests that Mark's actions were caused by demons or dark entities that attached because he wasn't ghost hunting safely enough. Yeah. Yeah, this is like something that's a big no for me, dog. Like I think let's not excuse the behavior by saying like a demon did it, you know? And he was like a documented abuser, domestic abuser, and like he made a human decision to murder his wife. So I just don't find much like.

And there is discourse about that online. Like people will literally be like, well, he had so many dark attachments. Like what how could he have? And it's like no. No. I'm good. Mm-mm. No, thanks.

No. he's not a victim in this, sorry, you know? And even if there was a storyline where, like, he would never act this way before and had no history and then all of a sudden this happened, we should still argue a case of mental illness way before demons. Yeah, I just feel like there's some very, let's just say like patterns that are very easily accessible. Yes. Where you can see like, hey, the most obvious thing is that this is the thing that happens all the time every day over and over again. Demons are, I think at the bottom. of the letter on

what we should be prioritized. Right. It's not my first theory, you know. Yeah. Now whether he was a terrible person and some dark energy attached to him and like made him even feel more fucking terrible, I don't know.

Okay, but like. Yeah, maybe demons are sprinkled into the recipe. Right? But like, sorry. It doesn't make it the full recipe. It's a him problem. Yeah. So the show generated,

as in Ghost Adventures also generated some controversy when the crew returned to Virginia City, Nevada. I don't know if you knew that existed. I think I did. Is that where Goldfield Hotel is? It's actually where the Washoe Club is. Oh, shit. Nevada City, I swear to got that's. Oh, I'm thinking Virginia City in Nevada.

I think that's where a culture goes. Oh, no, that is what it is. Sorry. Virginia City, Nevada. Hmm. They certainly, you know what it was? It's because they mentioned it was in the original 2004 documentary. They say Virginia City.

And I feel like everything else in Virginia City were those two weeks where they didn't find anything. And then they found the gold bill. Because they actually mentioned the documentary in this like and I'm like, I thought the documentary was about a different place. But yeah, okay. So that does make sense. So they're in the same town then. Same town where they did all of the investigations and only gold club gave them. Gotcha.

Yeah. Okay. Well, I'd be, I'm so curious to hear you cover this because it was spooky. When a suggestion comes up like this. What I watched was kind of kind of creepy. I'll be honest. I mean, it was also, like, ridiculous, but it was also spooky. Okay.

Okay. So the Ghost Adventures show created a bit of controversy when they returned to Virginia City in 2018 for the Washoe Club colon final chapter. Okay. During the lockdown, they specifically called out to Mark and Debbie, claiming to capture an EVP of Debbie's voice. Some fans saw it as, like, a tribute, like, you know, she, they were the EVP experts. Like if anyone was going to want to be contacted via EVP, it would be her.

But then, of course, like, it's also really tough to reconcile, like, this domestic violence, murder victim, like, being making your show, you know, being part of your television show. Like, even other friends, you know, like, I just, I didn't, I, I can see why there was quite a bit of controversy online about this and people debating. and they did get some creepy EVPs and Aaron and Zach just like break down like they just start sobbing about about missing missing them they're just crying and I mean it's really horrible it's just really it's just really really sad and like I'm not I don't think the way they did it like I was expecting to go in there and be horrified about like their lack of tact or whatever but like I didn't feel like it was as maybe it's just me but I didn't feel it was as disrespectful.

Like, if you were murdered or something, like, not to, I'm not being glib. I'm serious. Like, I would probably try to talk to you through a. Sure. And I'm not, I mean, just because I'm like, oh, that's what we would do, you know? First of all, it's what I demand. Let's start there. But no, I understand what you're saying.

So I feel like there's kind of a, to me, at least a little bit of a gray area there. But I just want to add here, like, because this is kind of where I think the main. point that I want to just kind of shut down all the, like, demonic theories with is the unfortunate patterns I referenced earlier. It's bad, okay, folks. So the current stats are as follows, according to the National Domestic Violence Hotline, over one in three women and one in four men in the U.S. have experienced rape, physical violence, or stalking by an intimate partner.

If you or someone you know is dealing with domestic abuse, confidential help is available 24-7. you can call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-7-99-safe or text the word start to 8-8-7-88. If it is an active emergency, excuse me, always dial 911 first. Now, the Washoe Club final chapter. I watched some of this because I just had to see what the deal was. It opens with a walking monologue. And I haven't watched Ghost Adventures in a while. I don't know how many open with like a walking.

I guess they kind of all do? I don't know. Let's see how this goes. Okay, so it opens to the walking monologue, and he's kind of like this. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you got it. This is a very special episode, ladies and gentlemen. We are returning to a place where we haven't been for about nine years.

A place that has left its mark on me, both physically, mentally, mentally, spiritually, and emotionally. How does he do it? Emotionally. Yeah, yeah. It's every syllable. its own journey. Emotionally. Yeah. We are returning to the Washoe Club in Virginia City. This is the Washoe Club final chapter. And like I just love, this is such a like a petty grammar thing, but like I love that it's left its mark both and then he lists like five things. Like both physically

and then he like lists five things. I'm like, okay. That's like when with the final chapter at Goldfield Hotel, he said like, I took this real personal and I'm like personally. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, okay, buddy, whatever. Another quote I wanted to point out from the trailer, from the teaser trailer I watched on Facebook before watching the intro, quote, I've been getting messages and dreams and visions of coming back here. And like, honestly, when I watched that and I ended up watching him tell the caretaker or the manager, whoever, and he says, I've been getting these dreams messages that I feel. are being sent or broadcast to me from the spirits that are here. And I'm not saying that's impossible. And I'm saying this like completely not throwing shade again, not being glib. Like this also feels like PTSD. Yeah.

Like I'm having dreams of this place where my two friends and I would spend a lot of time. And I feel like I just wanted to come back here and like. It sounds like he's like mid grief. Right. And like then he like sobs in one of the rooms. And it's like, okay. and I'm not saying, listen, maybe the ghosts are calling him back. But I just, I was very kind of like taken aback when he said like, I've been having dreams about coming here and like, I'm like, of course you have, dude.

Like, of course. Something extremely traumatic happened. I feel like I don't know if, I mean, it's certainly not his style. And I don't even know if he would have been. I don't know what the right word is. I don't know if he would have been aware of. I don't know. I'm just going to be more crass about it.

But I feel like it would have been a really wonderful opportunity for him to have a conversation with his audience about the overlap of mental illness being ignored for the conversations about paranormal stuff. It would have been, that would have been a really good time for him to be like, a lot of people claim that there's paranormal stuff going on, but there's mental health crises or there's something else going on. going on. He didn't discuss them and what happened at all.

So I don't know. Maybe you'll see somewhere like, have you seen him talk about like what happened? Because he did not mention it at all. In the Goldfield Hotel one, he like, I mean, he literally was so scared to say their names. But in hindsight, I'm like, was he scared to say their names or legally was he not supposed to be fucking talking about them? And he was acting like he just couldn't talk about it because he was so overwhelmed with feelings. I mean, I will say like, you can tell they're like they're really not feeling good. like, I mean, they're like in a bad place mentally, emotionally.

It's weird that they even struggling. I mean, maybe that was, that could have been, again, in a conversation about mental health or like even a conversation about just like grieving your friends. I mean, if you're fucking Zach Begans and your whole job is death in the afterlife, this is a great time to talk about your own experiences losing people. And apparently, Billy, it was hit. So Billy actually spent like several investigations with those two there. Like he like had a very personal at this swashow club like he was like we spent so much time here and he starts he's like I can't do this and then of course that goes he's like well it's important for people to see and he's like zooming it on his face he's like I want to stop filming or something he's like well it's important for people to see I'm like you're such a dick yeah it's like it's such a anomaly because like yes I because you could have used that he's a sociopath I really don't like I don't know I think he's just he he he knows clout when he's sees it and he becomes tunnel visioned about the clout. He likes the cachet.

He loves it. I feel like though he could have, first of all, if he, I'm not saying he wasn't grieving his family and friends or if we were his friends. But like, it's shocking to me that he didn't think like maybe can we just record in like two weeks or can we film in two weeks like, like, can we go to a different location like this is too soon? It was years later. Oh, it was years later.

Oh, yeah. It was. You did say that, didn't you? Um, I believe so. Let me see. I didn't remember that part. I don't know. I feel like there could have been a conversation there.

At the very least, like, let's, sorry, I lagged. My bad. No, go ahead. What were you saying?

It was three years later. So it was 2018. I feel like, maybe it's because I just know it's what you and I would have done. And so I'm like so, like, persistent about it. But I feel like there's,

there should have at least been one clip that stayed in about, like, this is going to be a really heavy episode for us. So let's not get confused about like what's paranormal and what's, uh, us grieving. Well, I will say he does give like a, like mental health. Like he says like here's the phone number.

You know, this is something. I think he does. I think he does make a statement. I mean, you watch the whole thing and tell me. I was kind of like I didn't want to get too into it because I wanted to make sure you got like the full story yourself. But like I did see him at the end saying giving a phone number of first. So maybe he does. I'm not sure though.

You'll have to update me. I can't wait. Thank you for the. the resource that's now available to me. But no, I'll come back with my own take on it, I guess. I can't wait for you to see this part, which was my favorite. He's like always himself in the intro when he's talking to this guy. He's always himself.

That should be our quote about him. Even in grief, right? Like he's always, he's just, he's always himself. He, the guy goes, yeah, well, there's not a day that goes by that some tour group doesn't bring up Ghost Adventures. And Zach goes like, I know. You're such a dick. You're so welcome.

I know. And then he's like, yeah, I love that. And then they like have these, which you'll see on the show, but they have these like pans of, over these like glass museum glass top cases. And it literally says Zach's shirt worn on invite. And he's like, yeah, it's just, you know, it's cool that you have like my shirt on display. And I'm like, first of all, the fact that he took that shirt off. Yes, I was going to say there's no way they actually said, can we please have your shirt?

He just got naked in front of them. For no doubt. And we better go back and find the episode. He goes, yeah, you have my shirt. And then, of course, I took a picture. He says, Zach's shirt from Ghost Adventures while wearing this shirt, by the way, in like one of those fucking crazy fonts. While wearing this shirt, Zach discovered that the Washoe Club was indeed haunted. Okay.

And then it's just folded in a glass top case. And then the next thing is Aaron's visor. He had a visor that said Virginia City. this really tacky tourist visor. And that's also in the case. So when we were at the Queen Mary, we should have just taken our pants off and just left them there.

And then they should have encased them in glass. Like that's how ridiculous it is. That's how stupid this is. I recall you trying to get me to take my pants off so I would go in that bathroom where the demon was. And I said, I'm not taking my pants off for you or anyone in that bathroom.

So sorry. Had I known that it was going to be encased in glass, I might have fought a little harder. But that's how stupid this sounds. it's like, oh, and here are his Q-tips he used in the bathroom. I mean, literally, it's absurd. Like, at the very least, it should be like,

this is the equipment they used. Also, like, there is a camera in there, but it's like, the shirt is definitely, the shirt and the hat. And, like, the hat says Virginia City. So, like, presumably he got it, like, that day. Like, Aaron got it that day. I'm like, what are we doing here?

Like, this is weird, guys. Oh, oh, wait, I forgot. Wait, I did watch part of this episode. And I, this, maybe I watched more than I remembered. I think I was a little bit, uh, sleepy on some some gummies some THC gummies um mood have you heard of it guys it's a great brand uh okay there is this line where they are talking to Debbie and I was watching this because I'm like okay this is where they're actually communicating with the victim or allegedly communicating

with the victims of the story I'm telling so I'm like paying close attention yeah and you just hear like a female voice and they're really emotional and they go that's Debbie cut smash cut I'm in the candy factory factory factory. right now and I'm going to make turtles and it's Zach and he acts a fool for the next probably 15 minutes. He and Aaron act like they, I mean, you know how they act. He's always himself. He's always himself. Ha!

H-A-H. Like literally he and then the whole time he's going, it doesn't look like a turtle. I don't get it. It doesn't look like a turtle. And she's like, well, there's the head and he's like, I don't see any legs. where's the tail? And I'm like, will you stop? Like, use your inside voice, first of all.

And then he gives this thing to the kid. Oh, my God. This kid walks in and Zach goes, I forgot. I wrote all this down. I was having, like, complete meltdown last night. To be fair, I looked at the turtles. I was like, they don't look like turtles to me either. So they're actually kind of right.

So actually, Zach's like on to something. So he tells these customers, they're about to eat the best turtles they've ever eaten. If you don't know what this is, it's like, I think like a chocolate caramel cluster kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. And I think they put it on. whatever, it doesn't matter, pretzel or something. I don't know. He tells the customers they're about to eat the best turtles they've ever eaten because he made them.

And he like hands it to this little boy who's probably like ate. And he goes, I made this. And the boy goes, did you make them or did you just pour the chocolate on them? That's a good boy. Aaron fucking loses his line. And he's like, this kid. Like he's like, this kid is fucking hilarious or whatever. Like this kid is clearly just punking Zach.

And Zach is just like, I did make it. And then Billy says, yeah, Zach, how did you make it? What temperature did you cook it at? And then literally just like art, art. And I now understand why you retell these. It is art. Thank you for saying that because sometimes it's like it's so in my head that I'm like, I'm so off topic.

But it's so. I'm like, I wrote this down thinking, I probably won't get to that. Now I'm like, this is my favorite part. No, I'm glad you said that because it makes me feel better about my own retellings. I mean, listen, it's just you like once you watch it, you're like someone else has to hear about it. This is fucking insane. Someone else has to know. He literally, so this is all happening.

He looks at the camera, like office style because this kid's like, did you really make it or did you just pour chocolate on it? And he's like, and then they're all like mocking him, right? And they're like, oh, what temperature you cook? And as it's like fading it, you hear the voiceover, like the traditional Zachary voiceover. And it goes, it is so good to know that I have the support of my team as I try to broaden my skill set. And then like, end. And I went, now that's a good play, my friend. That's an episode that didn't get a lot of paranormal content.

And we're just filling in the guests. I stopped after that. I think there's more. Like, they go back. That was where I stopped because I was like, oh, I got wrapped into the candy store. But then I was like, oh, this is the story M might cover. So like, that was very nice of you. I'm quitting at the can.

But M, you've got to watch the candy store thing. Okay. I'm sorry. I like, I know I explained it very well. You did. I thought I could like skirt never having to see it. But unfortunately. Especially the part where they go, that's Debbie.

I'm here at this chocolate factory. I can't wait to mention that. I'm going to be like, what the fuck? Isn't this like so important to you? Anyway, it's like, it's just banana. So thank you everyone for listening to me kind of like invade trespass into M's territory for a little while. It was very thrilling. I loved watching Ghost Adventures for work.

I felt very. It's a good time. It's not like it's the first time. I've done that. But, you know, it's always a pleasure. It's always a treat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, thank you. And thank you for the topic. So now I don't have to spend, you know, X amount of time. Well, do you know, thank you for the topic because it took me three episodes to kind of pick up on what you were laying down. And then I went, oh. So, yeah, if you have any more, you have to be very explicit and you have to remind me repeatedly because otherwise I will forget. Understood. Well, uh, what do you, do you have any plans

this week? Anything coming up? I don't even know what day it is. I'm completely lost of Oh, Leona's spring breaks finally, finally, finally, finally over. It sounded like a nightmare a little bit. It's just, it's so fun. And then by like 6 p.m., you're like, I can't be, I can't exist right now. Like, I want to crawl into a hole and just never speak. Like, it's just like you get so simple. At least I do, like stim, overstimulated.

Oh, yeah. But no, we've had a wonderful time. So much crafting. But then I fall behind on all my work, right? Like, we had a really fun time, but I just feel like this is like, this is like catch up week. So probably nothing too exciting. Yeah,

what about you? Well, I was just telling you during the yappy hour, I did not realize how close to time I was to, I've had a trip planned with my mom for so long and I've been hearing like, oh yeah, in April. Oh yeah,

in April. Oh, yeah, in April. And then I just kept. It feels far away. And then you suddenly a week. And now a week. And now all of a sudden I'm like,

I'm like, oh, fuck. Like, I'm going back on another fucking plane next week. I'm like, this is like not what I signed up for. But it's literally what I signed up for.

When do you head out? like in like I guess a week and a half but I'm very excited so I'm going to Jersey in New York and I'm I'm doing that I've obviously been to both of them before but my mom and I are doing an early Mother's Day slash her birthday trip but I told her I wanted to do certain things in Jersey

that I know she is not care for and so I'm going in a day early and I'm going to go take a tour of the Jersey Shorehouse she's not interested in that I know well she she put in a good to fight. She was like, no, no, we could, we, she keeps calling it Snooki's house. She's like, are you going to go to Snooky's house? Okay. So she's more on board than like my mother who'd be like, oh, a lighthouse. And I'd like, all right, like, you're like not even in the ballpark. She was willing to do it for me, but I was like, honestly, it's going to be so embarrassing.

It's knowing you're watching me react to things you have no idea about. And if you knew about them, you'd judge me for reacting so favorably because it was such a milestone in life. You don't want to have to temper your authentic self. Yeah. Yeah. Because Jersey Shore was, is so problematic, but talk about like, you know, that era of shock value and like, oh yeah, train wreck city. Yeah. And I kind of just want to like sit in the train rack for a second. So I mean, you, it's a nostalgia.

Like, you know. I'm very excited. So that's the only thing that I really have officially on the docket and the rest of it, I think is we're with family. So. Nice. Anyway, I, it's next week. But it felt like a month or a month or two or away.

And so now I'm like, oh, fuck. Usually I feel like the winter, like that late winter lasts so fucking long and it was just suddenly like spring. And I was like it's almost Easter basically. Yes. I was I was a little floored. So I'm, I'm a little overwhelmed and I'm about to have to go like figure out like my travel plans because now I have to figure out dates and all that. But that's what I'm up to. And next time I record with you might be in Joy Z. I don't know. Oh, ooh la la la. I can't wait to see whatever hotel art or hotel. Hotel art or family heirlooms is in the background. It'll probably be a family heirloom. I heard that we're staying with people. so oh oh do it from snowkey's house can you bet actually is it is it insane if we got someone to call the jersey shorehouse for me and they're like can i film a podcast okay no we don't even have to do that you just have to like record like a bit like whatever it is horizontally then send it to me and i'll do like pretend you're just talking to me

and then i'll edit it splice it and it'll look like we're recording at the jersey shorehouse let's start now i can't believe we're in the jersey shorehouse right now this is crazy Well, you have to actually have it on video. I'll be a green screen. I don't know. I don't know. You're going to be in it. That's the whole point.

The green screen. I can green screen myself at the Snokey's house if I wanted to too. I'm so stressed out. Okay, you're right. I'm very excited. I'm just overrun. You should just pretend you're vlogging. You should be like, so I don't know.

And then I'll also just film like some like B row of like an empty room so you can put your face on it. And then it's like. I was going to say that I'll be like, oh yeah. Thanks. Okay, today's episode M is showing me around. the Jersey Shore House and we can kind of pretend, you know, like it'll be good. It'll be a good time. Okay, cool. We'll reenact a Jersey Shore clip.

Oh, okay. I don't know many of those, but I could try. You just say, who wrote the note? U-Too's. That's what you say. U-Tos. I can say that for sure. Use Tunes. All right. Okay, so anyway, very excited. We'll see everybody next week. Sounds good. And that's why we drink.