And That's Why We Drink - E479 Tonsil Hockey Olympics and Flying Pig Yoga

Episode Date: April 19, 2026

Welcome to episode 479 where we're closing the loops and learning the difference between hockey at the summer vs winter Olympics AFTER purchasing tickets! First Em brings us hopefully the finale of the Zak Bagans Cinematic Universe series that has been haunting us with part two of the Old Washoe Club. Then Christine brings us another finale in part two of the story of the disappearance of Dorothy Arnold. And please join us in visiting the Cincinnati YMCA website for Christine's podcast promo at Qigong class... and that's why we drink!It just takes a few minutes to sign up. Head to https://Chime.com/drinkShop plans at https://mintmobile.com/ATWWDFind candidates who really want YOUR job on ZipRecruiter. Try it for FREE at https://ziprecruiter.com/DRINKGo to https://hellofresh.com/drink10fm to get 10 free meals plus a free Nutribullet® Ultra Plus+ 2-in-1 Compact Kitchen System on your 3rd box; new subscribers only, must order the 3rd box by May 31st, 2026.Get 30% off sitewide at https://hellobatch.com , including subscriptions, with code DRINK at checkout. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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What to talk about today, Christine? I'm at a loss. The sun is shining here. I don't know about anywhere else. Just another sunny day in California. Wow. How's Kentucky? dream you know, it's just gorgeous over here. I really did feel like a fool for that. Did you hear what

happened? You were out of town. I skipped part two of my story. I, sorry about that. That sounds bad. Yeah. I have a feeling we're going to write that wrong very quickly, though. I have a feeling I'm going to do that today. Part two of Dorothy Arnold, the socialite from Manhattan, who, who disappeared in 1910 and I just was like, okay, bye. You know, you were just, uh, you were just stringing us along. You just wanted us to like really be on the edge of our seats. That's all. And then I just said, oh, I left you over here on the edge of your seat. Oops for three weeks. Oops. We were on the edge of our seat in the movies and you said you'd go grab some popcorn real quick. But then like you ended up hanging out with somebody. You went to the bathroom. I found the Twizzlers. A long thing.

Yeah. Yeah. That's okay. I think you're going to, I think it's going to be fine though. Well, thank you. Everyone's been very understanding and kind about it. I'm going to finish. I obviously have the notes. Like I did the notes, but I just thought I already did them. So I'm on the show. So I'm going to do that today. So that I would say is one of the bigger reasons why I drink.

Well, actually, if you'd like me to go first, I have a very genuine reason why I drink, which is. So, you know, I have been doing my Qigong yoga. I sure do. Yeah. So I went Friday with my mother, as usual. And of course I wore mine. And that's why I drink shirt because I have like six. And I just, I wore one of them and I was standing there.

And I was like, something's going to happen today. I didn't know what, but I was like something's a little funny in the air. I see. Okay, okay. I like where we're heading. And my teacher, our instructor, stands up and goes, well, I heard that the local news is here at the Y today to film some promo. So for the upcoming Flying Pig marathon that Cincinnati has every year.

Oh, bye. So, you know, if the camera people are in here, They said just pretend they're not. And we were like, ha ha, okay, you know, we're just doing our thing. Like 10 minutes in, I shit you not. This gigantic pig with wings, like this person in a mascot costume and this giant pig with wings, saunteres on into the studio, the yoga studio. What did you do?

Did you really, did you ignore them like you were told or did you stare like I would? We all did a little giggle. And then we said, okay, and the camera person said, don't pretend like we're not here. And this pig is a large pig is going to stay in the middle of the room and do Qigong. And just pretend like it's normal. And we said, okay. So we're sitting there. And you know, it's so embarrassing.

They start filming and they have this like, yeah, thing. Oh, wait. Can you hear me? Christine? Uh-oh. Oh, my. What a story to. Hmm.

Am I back? Yeah, you are frozen. Oh, shit. Take a little screenshot. Shit. Just so you know what I'm looking at here. Can you hear me? Yes.

There's a little picture for you. Oh, there you are. I'm back? Yes, you're back, but I... Oh, I just saw you say that you can see and hear everything. Yeah, it's so annoying. For the last minute, that is what you look like. No.

Terrible. Terrible screenshot. So, okay, you had me. at pig and then all of a sudden it froze like it was almost you know what it was kind of like how you have to do a part two later now i just unplugged from yeah he said i really would keep you on the edge of your seat again so that's enough i said uh yeah this pig comes in and we're thinking okay uh whatever and i distinctly remember this woman has this camera and she's filming and i remember thinking i knew the moment i knew the moment they were there for 15 minutes my mother

and I discussed later, we both knew the exact moment that was going to be used for the footage. We knew it. We felt it. Because it was, we had done all these like cool poses where I felt, I was like, I'm looking so skinny with my arm up like this. I bet you I'm going to look so good on the local news. And like, I'm just thinking. And there's this one part where our teacher says, now, pull the energy. And she plays like all like R&B and blues music and like kind of like old school ballads. You know? And so one of those ballads that was playing at the time, which you can actually hear in the footage, is I think it was, I will always love you or maybe it was a Whitney Houston. I'm not sure.

But it was something quite fitting. And she said, now pick the energy and move it in a flow. And the way I tell you, my mother and I, these two white German women, like standing there moving the floor. flow of energy. And I feel the camera on us and I go, this is it. This is the moment. I mean, it's just like, I feel it. And I shit you not. It was my stepdad's birthday. We get home that night and I'm like, happy birthday. I'm going to go look this up. And it's on the internet, my friend. It's on the internet. The way that I laughed, I think I laughed and cried and screamed for like an hour. It was, I'm going to send you the clip because it really is just so embarrassing. But this,

this gives you an idea. Like, I feel like the universe, I was trying to explain. Gong and the universe was like, I know, we'll show them. They said actually, shut up. Easy. Sit down. Yeah. So it's publicly on the Cincinnati YMCA's page. Also, I'm like, this isn't the local news.

Are we just like bullying, cyberbullying me? Is that what we're doing? Like, where's the local news? I have never known anyone braver for you to tell everybody about this. It's almost like I don't know how not to. Like, it's like, I feel. like this is what the universe needs me to do next, which is so unfortunate. Because you could have just said nothing and then hoped nobody ever found out.

I could have, but I just felt like that wasn't an option. I can't, may I click through and watch this? It's very short and it's, you can barely see it, but the screenshots my brother has taken. Oh, oh. And actually, you really actually don't look as bad as I think your brain's telling you. You thought you did. That was, that was a very quick moment and you did look like you knew what you were doing. Thank you. I'll show you the screenshot that my brother set my entire family.

Oh, thank you. That is what I want to see. Yeah, it's super good. It's super good. No, you, you, it was very fleeting. So you got out of there quick. And the big focus was on this like little two to pig. Yeah, big time thankful for being. For a brief moment. But it is our podcast, you know. And so I think, uh, at least I was representing. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Oh, here's the picture that my brother said. It's super great. Thanks, Sandy. You're such a gem. Let's see it.

Oh, it broke my phone. Oh, good. That feels good. It's like when you look in the mirror and it shatters, you know? That's kind of one. I couldn't even hear what song was playing that time. I forget, but it's absurd. Anyway, if you want to share it, Megan, to social media you can.

I don't know. We'll get the Y's impressed, you know. The Y, it's a great place. We're accidentally doing like a cross-promotion with the Y. I mean, I feel like we say accidental. And again, the universe is like, this is all part of the plan. Okay, I'm sending this to you. Bated breath I have over here.

It's really silly. It's so silly. Does the pig have a name, the mascot? Fuck if I know. Oh, see, you look like, that's not even, oh. That's a good form. I mean, he sent it with like the, um, with the basically the implication derogatory you know yeah i can sense that the intention was supposed

to be evil but it actually you look like you know what the fuck you're doing thank you i was trying so hard to look like what i was doing like i knew what i was doing that it feels sort of absurd to me like because i clearly don't know what the fuck i'm doing it's kind of giving i think it's a fact that i'm so sorry it's kind of i love that for me it's kind of like a black widow situation sexual socks. Do you see my bisexual socks that day? Oh, and I'm wearing my Boston University sweatpants. So I'm very, I'm very M and Christine coded in this picture. I like that I'm clumped into the bi vibe, but I love it. Yeah, not the bisexual, but the B-U and the A-T-W-W-D. Well, I appreciate, no, you do look by. I'm going to be honest. You do look like a bisexual.

Yeah, that part's not a question. It is, I think it's the way that your arm is, you're kind of flexing a muscle. You're looking like a hey mama's a little bit. Again, really trying on purpose that. And I'm glad it came forward. You look good. You look good. Thank you. I mean, thanks. You know, I've been feeling good. I've been doing the yoga and the chi-gong and the smacking myself to get the energy

of moving, you know. Good. No, no, no. It shows. It looks, you could have looked a lot worse. A lot worse. Thank you. That's all.

You know what? Thank you. Yeah. I like that. I will take that. Did we, did we hear? I know I just asked, but the pig's name, is there a mascot? Oh, I don't.

fucking no, I didn't even know there was a, like, yeah, I didn't know that was a thing. Okay. You know, it's not like a thing that I, I think they just say flying pig. Okay. Sick. Yeah. Pretty sick. What is the reason for this event in Kentucky?

It's in Cincinnati. They do the flying pig marathon every year. It's like just a long running tradition. Love it. And Leona's doing like a mini kids race or something. I don't know. They just have like, yellow piglet race. That's cute.

Flying piglets. Aw. Is she going to be in all pink with your little piggy nose? She sure is. And they're tie-dying pink shirts. So she's in heaven right now. Oh, that sounds so fun. Yeah.

Yeah. I would be drinking something except that I fell asleep into a nap as, I was texting M, then I needed 10 more minutes. And my alarm, as I was hitting OK, I fell asleep and did not hit okay. So I raced up here half an hour late. And now I don't have a beverage. So I'm fine. One, if you ever need to take a nap, please don't make it.

Please think higher of me to give you only 10 more minutes. Like, please. You're right. You literally said, I'm going to give her the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And two, if you'd like to go get a drink, you can. Thank you.

I might do it during the half time show, you know. I see. What about you? What are you drinking slash why? I drink. I don't know what the hell is going on. I'm getting notified. Leave me alone.

You know what I mean? Oh my gosh. You're so popular. I think it's like, I don't know what it is. A group chat. No, my phone is doing that thing where I'm getting like a shitload of spam text. It's very annoying.

Oh, yeah. I'm drinking. And they're like, hi, I want to play golf with you next Wednesday. And I'm like, what the fuck kind of spam is this? It's so weird. possibly think I would respond to that. Like, yeah, do you think? And they're like, I'm Albert and I'm like, that's the name.

Really? Do a little recon before you just do this. Right. Anyway, I am drinking an L. Foggy. And then I have a propel as my backup because I have a feel about gulp this down pretty quick. I drink a few reasons. But the one that I'll go with today is that I live in L.A., as you know, you've been there. Sunny California.

Sunny California. And my lottery slot, I don't know what the right phrasing is, but my slot opened for me to get tickets to the Olympics in two years. And by the time my slot was open, a lot of like the most popular things are already closed. Right. So I was like, oh, what to do, what to do? And I was like, I should make this a gift opportunity. And I should like, because I don't care about any of the sports that are available to me. So I'm just going to do something that would make like my parents are like.

my parents really happy and like oh and they can come to the Olympics and it'll be like a big moment for them so I was like looking through it and I was like oh I see baseball here like Tom would really like baseball I should do baseball so I called my mom and I the tickets were a little holy shit so I called my mom and I was like let's go splitzies and make this like a multi a gift across the next two years and um and I was reading off the rest of the sports to her and then we got to hockey and Tom's obsessed with hockey obsessed like more than baseball and And so my mom was like, don't get baseball, get the hockey ones. And I went, okay, great.

So we got the hockey ones. And I, and she was like, oh, I can't, I can't keep it. And I have to tell him. I want to tell him. I want to tell him. And I was like, you need to figure it out. Because like, this is going to be a great gift in like two years. Like, shut up, Linda.

Just forget we ever did this, even though it was like super expensive. I need to emphasize it was super expensive because I got him the men's hockey, like the final, the final game, like the final one. And it was. Holy shit. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, this will be. a payment plan across two years for sure.

And then we couldn't keep it in. Ended up telling Tom. And he then went, oh, but isn't it the summer Olympics? Why would ice hockey be there? And I went, let me look at the tickets. And I realized it just generically says hockey. And I assumed ice hockey. And my mom and I,

really committed to the bit and got four tickets to the final game of men's field hockey. And now for the next two years, we get to all as a family get really into field hockey. So that way we care about this. Yeah. I didn't even occur to me. And my mom and I looked at each other like, we don't, we don't deserve wallets for the next week. Wow. I am, wow.

that was quite a plot twist. Holy shit. You know what? Fuck you, Olympics, because why on earth would you put hockey? Maybe it's my own problem because I don't follow sports

and I should have known that ice hockey is a winter sport. It didn't occur to me. Why did you put hockey? I know someone knew that people like me wouldn't know and just click thinking it was a different type of hockey.

Hockey, yeah. Because the price suggested it was ice hockey, not field hockey. You know what I'm saying? I guess. I mean, I don't fucking know a thing about field hockey. I guess so yeah.

So I guess I'm surprised they're so expensive, but I guess it's the Olympics. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe I thought the price made more sense because I'm in a hockey family. And so I know what those prices go for versus like field hockey. Are you in a hockey family? You barely even know the difference between different types of hockey. You know what?

You fucking called me out. Thank you so much. But I would consider anytime I go home, oh my gosh, just hockey, hockey, hockey, every TV has a different hockey game playing. Like he's obsessed with hockey. So I, all I saw was the word hockey. And I just tunnel visioned until we got to get these tickets. It's going to blow his mind.

And then now... At least it's not air hockey. No, that would be so much better. I know. It would be so much better. I know. I was trying to make it sound good. But then I was like, actually, that's way better.

Well, air hockey would be cool. Mom bought two tickets. I bought two tickets because I was like, oh, Allison, we're all going to go as a family. And so I just had to break the news to Allison. And Allison's going to go, I love field hockey. No, I told her. And I was like, so it's not ice hockey. And she went, is it street hockey?

And I went, I think it's kind of worse. I would. a shoe where I mean, street hockey would be cool. Tonsal talk. Tonsill hockey. Okay, wait. What? Wait, and it's men's field hockey? I didn't know that.

It's not, in the U.S., that's not a common thing. It's not a common thing. So, you know, my friend Cloudy, her whole family is from England, and it's very common there for field hockey to be a men's sport. So we were thinking, we were like, maybe we just get the tickets to them because they'll love it. But, no, I'm going to. Mitch of the bit. I need to learn something about my... Okay. I'm going to take the lesson.

Did you play field hockey or anything? I played during one summer camp when I was a little kid. And then I went, this is not for me. It was big at my school, but I did not play it. It was, I would say probably, if not the biggest sport at my school, it was one of the top three. I think it's like a preppy thing. Like, I think it's like a, at least in our, in our world it was. we apparently had a really good field hockey team but I I tried one time and then like the sticks hit my fingers and I went fuck this you know what I mean oh yeah no I'm out so anyway I that's why I drink because that's like that's like genuinely pretty fucking hilarious so if anyone and I'm not trying to like shit on field hockey in a way where it's like oh fuck that sport it's just like I know nothing about that no one in the family cares about it I spent way too much money thinking I was giving someone an excellent gift and now all of us are stuck in the situation. So if you happen to be a big field hockey fan, I'll see it at the Olympics in two years, I guess.

I don't know. I can't wait for you to get set fixated on fucking field hockey. I fucking better because if I'm going to be there. And also keep in mind, it'll be L.A. in July and I'm on an open field all day. It's going to be the hottest time of my life. I were like, perfect. I'll be on the ice. I literally thought I was like, this is so wonderful. I'm going to be just going to be chilly.

Oh, my God. Nope. But I saw like it was a stadium or a field or something. And I was like, well, obviously, it's a rain. It didn't occur to me. A stadium or a field or something. It was like there was a name for it, like the location where the the game will be. And I was like.

Something like that. And I was like, oh, it didn't occur to me. I was like, there's fucking ice rinks right now. I just would have thought you meant ice hockey. I don't know. I did too. Like obviously it's a winter sport. I get that.

But like, I don't know. I wasn't going to question you on it. Like, how much do I know? I know that the Olympics is literally supposed to be a uniting across the nation's sport. So like I should have thought. that maybe there would be sports that the U.S. does not play there. But stupid American brain, I saw hockey and assumed the hockey that we all see here. So I was like, it didn't occur to me. So anyway, that's why I drink. That's hilarious. I mean, if you'd gone with the baseball, you know.

I literally told my mom that I was like, I should have never talked to you. I should have just. Yeah, honestly, you, yeah, she kind of, but I'm glad that she spilled the beans because that now, what a shock to find that out in two years, you know? Imagine I've been holding on. to this really good surprise for two years. And I'm like, we're driving up to the ice rink. And I'm like, where is it? It's just grass. We're driving up. Hey, Tom, don't forget to bring your jacket and your scarf. That's so funny. Anyway, so funny. I that, anyway, so that's, that's my reason. Man, what a silly day. What a silly day that was. That's good. That's good stuff. Listen.

So, anyway, on to these stories. What's fun about my story this week is that you're doing a part two. I'm also doing a part two. So I guess we're closing the loops on things. I see. I'm just, yeah, just a little behind. But I will do it today alongside you. I don't think you probably remember what my part two is.

Hmm. No. Oh, wait, Zach Begins. Yeah. I was going to say, hopefully this is the final, the finale of the series that has been following. Yeah. That's what we say every time. I know. He really weaves a web.

And I think that's part of it. I was so excited to cover that couple we talked about, like to dig into that story, the Constantinos. I think I just like jumped into those notes and like did not look back, you know. And I understand. But then it just, oh. And I'm not complaining because it gave me topics without having to like even research the like you. I didn't have to go look up like something to cover. It was like, well, this is obviously what I'm doing next. I'm like, damn it, can we walk away from the Zach Began's line? Like, man, the, the world, the cinematic universe is getting just more and more complex in there. The ZBCU, yeah. Oh, kill me, God.

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Okay, so hopefully this is the end of it all. It never is. But this is part two of the old Washoe Club. Okay, okay. This section in particular is just the Zach Began's coverage of this because it was too much for me to cover in the first part. Okay, great. To give people a catch-up on the old Washoe Club, I will be butchering this catch-up, but I'm giving you very quick bullet points is that this was a very fancy Millionaire's Club in Nevada during like the Silver Mine explosion, the boom, if you will. It started as this really grand place in one location, then a fire burnt down immediately

after, then it got built above the still standing oldest saloon in the area. Then that went out and it became like offices and apartments for a while, and the saloon still exists. The saloon is also still haunted. So the club for a while, it has been, or for a long while now, it's been known as incredibly haunted. They have ghosts such as the Lady in Blue named Lena who was maybe killed by

a woman who found out that she was sleeping with her husband. Oh, right. On the stairs? On the stairs. Yes, there's a spiral staircase there. There are little kids who got hit by horse and wagons and then ended up dying in the building. There is a man who died by

self-inflicted gunshot wound. Downstairs in the saloon, there is a room called the crypt because it temporarily stayed as a morgue for a while and is now just a storage room in the bar. But in there is that ghost Randall who looks like the Monster's Ink Randall and he crawls all over the walls. Oh yes, yes, yes. No, no, thank you. It's a big no. It's a big no. And then a series of other ghosts, surely. So, yeah, that's my very quick, uh, half-a-zardly situation there. I remember it well. Okay. So now,

this is, I don't know how much of it I said to you or how much of it I said in my own head, so I'm just going to kind of word vomit and sorry if this is repetitive to people. But as we talked about at the beginning of this fucking ZBCU timeline, the original, original, original ghost adventures was a 2004 documentary of Zach going through different locations in Nevada trying to find ghosts after he just came face to face. with one. And he's like, where are they? And so I watched that documentary. And last time I thought I gave you a full recap on that. I was wrong. I gave you a recap of only the location, the Goldfield Hotel. I apparently only watched that section because it was relevant to the

topic at the time. I had no idea. This would all balloon into me talking about multiple locations. So I'm now here to talk about another portion of the documentary. Oh, so this was in the documentary. This location was in the documentary. It was just not the part that had the mind-blowing brick being thrown at the Goldfield Hotel experience that ever. That was like a huge portion of the documentary. The other parts were much smaller. So remember I told you, I know this was a while ago, so I'm sorry to make you jog your memory on this. But remember I told you during the original documentary, it was just Nick and Zach and Aaron for some reason wasn't there.

Yes. Even though he was like in random clips I saw of like the promo of it and he was clearly there, but he wasn't for some reason. Oh, yeah. Okay. So we have cracked the case on that. I just needed to watch the rest of the fucking movie. And Aaron was there. He just was not there for the Goldfield Hotel investigation.

Okay, okay. But he was there for earlier locations including the old Washoe Club. So disregard me. If you go back to that episode like maybe five episodes ago now, please disregard me saying he was not in the documentary. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, because he had like left early or something or like, yeah, I forget. Yeah. We made some sort of joke about like, oh, he must left because they weren't finding any ghosts and he was fed up or something. And then Zach was like, no, I'm going to prove it and get all the ghosts I can blame Aaron for it. Which I do like that storyline more, but it has now been proven that he just

wasn't there for some reason. De-bumped. So for those who care, if you were to watch the original 2004 documentary Ghost Adventures, The Goldfield Hotel starts at minute 38 and goes all the way to the end. Okay. The first 38 minutes have a few locations, but the Washoe Club is minute 14 to 38. Okay, okay, okay. In case you care about time codes here. So we're talking about from 14 to 38 here.

By the way, now that I've gone back, I click the same link to watch that documentary again from the last time I did. And the comments have updated since then because it's been a few weeks. And apparently people who listened to our episode about the documentary then watched it there and left comments. And so then I got to watch. I would have never known if I didn't have to reclick the link. So shout out to Chef and Alexandra for leaving comments that they only found this through ATWBD. Hey, that makes me so happy. I know.

I would have not known the spreading the love out in the wild. The effects we cause. Yeah. So my favorite thing about this, I cannot confirm this. I feel like you have better snooping skills than I do. So maybe you would be able to find it. But in this clipping of the documentary where they're talking about the old Washoe Club, they show like a, you know, sometimes they show like a still image and it kind of just sits there for a second.

It was of a news article from the Associated Press talking about how the exact phrasing was, spirited bar target a visit. Spirited bar target a visit, okay. Which apparently, I don't know if this was the first, but it was at least one of the first news articles that would have talked about the ghost hunters, three local ghost hunters coming to check this place out. Descending upon us, yes.

The first line of the article, which I was able to see on the screenshot, was three Ghostbusters from Reno planned to show up today at the old Washoe Club's saloon whose owner is complaining about spirits who are getting pushy and scaring people. Wow. They did. I'm only bringing this up because if you are better at snooping than I am, maybe you can help me.

But I could not find that article anywhere. And I have a newspaper's comm account. But so it was, it literally, the title is spirited bar, target a visit. And then I say that whole line because I looked all that up and I couldn't find it anywhere. So I'm like, was that? that was they wouldn't fake a news article that's crazy okay i mean if anyone would fake a news article but i don't allegedly yeah i don't know does it say what newspaper that is the associated press oh it says associated press oh jesus i know so i was like where is this three ghost busters i love

that i love that they were still so new though that they had to go by that they didn't have a name yet I know. It's not like television superstar, you know? Humble beginnings. Wow. So, okay, so Zach says that the second and third floors are super haunted and just happen to be off limits. So I don't know if was he not allowed up there. He seemed like he wasn't allowed up there. Then at some point it did become accessible for people who went on tours. I don't know if it's still accessible. You and I spoke about how we would not touch that staircase because it was very old and didn't have a supporting pull through it. No, no.

So one of the other things that I thought was really funny is just it shows you truly the humble beginnings of Zach Begans where things would freak him out so quickly. Aw. Because they're talking about the stairs and they're just barely on the stairs and one of them has chills and that was enough for Zach to say, let's get the fuck out of here. Literally he was because he had chills. Oh my God. He literally says, let's get Nick and get out of here. That's his quote. Wow.

He's grown. I know, but also I don't know what stage I'm in in my ghost hunting, but that alone would also make me want to leave, but I'm just a scared of cat. But I was like, oh, it's nice that somewhere in the timeline, Zach and I could have gone ghost hunting together and both just been freaked out enough to just get the hell out of dodge. Totally been on the same wavelength, yeah. Without judgment, yeah. Wow, that's a beautiful thought. They then heard a little girl's voice. And then at 1927, in case you care about the time code, since people do actually go watch these things after we talk about them.

This is where they had like their best, their best footage of the night in this location. So at Goldfield Hotel was the brick getting thrown and that got much more play. But in here, they got an apparition of something walking across the room. Like, so Nick was in the room and then he leaves. And then this apparition follows Nick out of the frame.

And I will say, it is actually, as long as it wasn't tampered with and I don't know anything about that, but it does look like, you can see the legs. walking like this. I don't like that. I mean, listen, I'm always like benefit of the doubt. Not always, obviously, especially with ZB, but like, I don't know. I feel like that would be a wild thing to just, if I find out the newspaper article was faked, then I might believe that this

part was fake. If, but otherwise I'm like, I believe that they caught something creepy. Like, I think so. And I think originally a lot of people thought, oh, it might be Nick's shadow, because if he just walked out of frame and now you're seeing walking behind him. But I guess they were able to debunk that in some way. I don't totally understand. But it did, it looked odd. It certainly was creepy. So they did have video analysts check it out who said it wasn't tampered with,

but I never know if I believe that shit. Yeah, right. But between that clip and the AP News reported it is what I heard. Right. Between that clip of something walking by and the clip of the brick getting thrown later in the documentary. I can see why he got a fucking TV deal. I mean, yeah. And especially because that was such a new thing. Like people, people were like, oh, that's kind of creepy. What is this all about? Like, I don't believe in ghosts, but, you know, and now it's just so much more acceptable.

I fully agree. I, if it were like today, I think he might have gotten like one news outlet asking about it and then no one would have ever heard about it again. Or it would like go viral on TikTok and we never hear about it again. Yeah. No, totally. He would, I mean, not to like, don't ever tell I said this, but he's kind of a visionary, you know? The way that I have said there is evidence somewhere out there on this podcast and he's saying he is a business mogul. He. Oh, big time.

I don't care for some of his behaviors, but I got to pat him on the back for really coming in at the right time. He is a successful motherfucker. He is. I can't, he can't deny that. So anyway, this clip. Can't be debunked. this clip like the brick clip did get a lot of news coverage um i think the brick one was the one that was a big famous one this one did get on news outlets and i tried finding those clips i could not but

they did show like like little pieces of the clips in the documentary so i know that they exist and i thought it would be so funny because it literally is just the at the time they didn't have any muscles or anything. It was just three lanky men just kind of sitting in a news. Three ghost busters from Reno Nevada. They were sitting on these little bar stools, like getting interviewed and they all looked like they weren't like familiar with cameras. It was very cute. Oh my God. They're so like nervous. One of them was actually, I just, I titled it in case people wanted to try to Google it for themselves. But it was Las Vegas One was the channel. They interviewed Zach. And I will say

his final form did show itself a little bit there because he, I think this was a clip in the documentary. He was very intense with the interviewer for no fucking reason. Oh, God. So he's like, you can see him evolving. Literally, like the second he got one ounce of evidence and then someone put a camera in front of him to ask about it, it began. Like the formula began to, yeah, take hold. That's fascinating. There were signs early on.

There were signs. We should have seen it. So that's all that we got from the documentary. But since then, as you've mentioned, he did go back and do two more episodes on his later to be very popular ghost adventures TV show. Right, right. So I'm going to talk about both of those episodes. Okay, great. And I would like to also formally apologize to people who don't like the fact that some of these episodes have just become recap episodes.

But I can't control what happens when Zach Began's is slam dunk and everywhere. All of a sudden. It's his world. We're just living in it. We're trying to survive, okay? I'm actively trying to get out of the ZBCU, as I've discussed. So, like, just hang in there for, like, this episode and then we'll get back to our programming. If I'm being, like, fully honest, I feel like I'm the one holding on a little too tight, you know?

I mean, I'm having a good time, but I'm also trying to keep the masses happy. You know what I'm saying? I get it. I get it. It's a hard balance. It's tough. It's a really, so tough. Mm-hmm.

Thank you, everyone, for your patience. So two episodes of Ghost Adventures. one of them is in 2009, which was five years after the documentary came out. Wow. So it was season, somehow season three. I guess there was a couple years before the show actually took off from the documentary. He had to get his wardrobe figured out first. He needed to grow a couple muscles.

Get his attitude, like, out of check. Like really fuck up his own attitude. And so in 2009, it is season three in episode six. I hate to report that I only found it on Prime Video. so sorry. Oh, yuck. But I mean, you know, got to do what you got to do. The other one was nine years later in 2018, not too long ago in my brain, even though it was actually like eight years ago. Yikes. Yeah, that's when I got married. That was ancient now. A lifetime ago, but really the number doesn't add up to me. That was season 20, which he moves very fast if he

went for, that's 17 seasons and nine years. That man, I'm telling you business mogul. I mean, And that was like the second year of our podcast. So it's like, Jesus Christ, we're getting, we're smoked. It was season 20, episode three. And it's called the final chapter, of course. Of course. It's always the final chapter, yes. And you know what?

When he went back to the Goldfield Hotel, if you remember, that episode was called the final chapter. It's never the final chapter. Let's be so for real. I feel like any location he went to in that documentary has since gotten a final chapter episode because he's just so fucking sick of going there, you know? And then on the final, on his death, but he's going to say this is the final chapter. He's going to come back as a fucking ghost.

It'll be called something like resurrection. Oh my God. With like all the, like the goth font. Yes, yes. Okay, so the first episode we're going to talk about is the 2009 one season three. They come back because the, they just called them at the time, the investigators, other investigators. So they're not ghost busters anymore. They're investigators now.

No, no, hang on. I've said it wrong so far. You are on the right track based on how I said it. Hang on. Zach and his crew are giving a little intro about why they're going back after all this time, all five years ago. Because newer investigators since then have been getting EVPs and those investigators were the Constantinos. I see. So I think this is where he met them.

Oh, these new investigators. Oh, wow. So, okay, wow. And as you mentioned in your episode about the Constantinos, they were very good at getting EVPs. Wow, that's kind of mind-boggling. Okay. I know.

It's really the watching the story all click finally. Ooh, yeah, it's a little freaky. So they did get some pretty good EVPs, and the EVPs they were getting, which attracted the Ghost Adventures crew and intrigued them enough to come back. It was that these EVPs were saying the Ghost of Ventures crews. names. They were summoning them back. Five years later,

and you know Zach ate that shit up. He was like, they're still talking about me. Oh, my God. He hit, a couple of muscles sprouted just when he heard that. Yeah. Like his ears perked like a dog. Yeah. Yeah.

Yes. His head tilted and he was coming for him. Oh my God. And you know what? I can't, I mean, I would be horrified. However, I got to be honest. My ego would be up a little bit if I found out the like my very first ghost I ever hunted still think of me. I'd be like, oh my God. Yeah. Me too.

You know what I mean? I'm like, really? I mean, okay. I guess I'm pretty memorable. Like if you had an Instagram like we would be following each other even if we don't talk. Right. We'd be checking up. Yeah. We'd be following. Yeah. It's like an X. It's like, well, I think of you. You think of me. It's like, I know what you're up to. You know what I'm up to. Let's just leave it at that. Yeah. I will say it was very odd to see the Constantinos after you had just told me the whole story of what happened to them. It's weird. It's weird, especially because that doesn't really get super divulged on any of the episodes. I feel like I had my reality or my perception of reality was very warped because I was like hypervigilant trying to find signs of what would later be, you know.

Yeah. Hyper. Yeah, because you're reading into everything, right? I mean, a lot of fans have talked on Reddit, like, oh, in this episode, if you see the way he talks. are here, you know, like, I mean, they've been analyzed through and through by a ton of people. Yeah. It was very just chilling to just see them interacting and not only knowing that, I mean, maybe I don't know if they would consider themselves in love at the time or if, I don't know. Right.

Abuse is tricky. But it was weird to see them getting along, being a married couple, knowing that like she's sitting next to her murderer. Like that was oh god am you're right like every time it hits me every time like it's like it's it was a weird way of like going back in time and knowing a murder's going to happen and they're just hanging out it must be so fucking like watching the episode where he went back you know the final chapter um where he went back and talk and like the way that they just all burst into tears I mean they were just sobbing in that one basement and I was like I think that they're like really traumatized I mean obviously like yeah I agree. To have like a couple that like has a shared passion and a shared business and you know seemingly obviously on the surface seem you know put together enough. And the guilt too of like if I'm a stranger like looking for the hindsight, I can't imagine knowing that. Being in it like what did I miss or what how could I have helped or even to be like we're in this building right now and they would obviously be here with us and they're 100%. That must just be like the most chilling feeling. Yeah. So that was very interesting to watch. Definitely put an extra layer of creepy to the episode. Which under any other circumstances, I'd be like, well, that's great TV for a ghost show.

But like it was just so dark. You know what I mean? Yes. Super morbid. So the EVPs that they played for the crew, because they all met up together to do the investigation, I guess together. Right. Or they, I'm sorry. I did watch this a while ago because we didn't record last week.

So I'm trying to play catch up with myself here. But either the, the Constantino's investigated with them or were just involved in the walkthrough and played their EVPs for them. Right. Okay. Okay. But they were like in the episode. Mm-hmm. They were in the episode.

And the EVPs that they played for them said very clearly, hate Nick, which Nick was the one that they walked behind and the apparition that everyone saw. Oh, yeah. That followed him. Oh, ew. So that's creepy. Yes. Then got Nick Groff, so full name. Why they hate him so much?

That becomes a running joke in this episode. It is pretty funny, unfortunately. I love that it's not Zach for once. I mean, yeah, it's kind of funny that it's not Zach. Then they did, they got Zach Lookout. And then very creepy and feels a little too good to be true as someone who's, you know, it feels a little too scary to me. Okay. Nick, Zach coming, they're scaring me.

I don't know what it means, but it's a string of words that freaks me out. Okay, you know, and we don't talk about our ghost hunts that often, but like, you know, when we're on a ghost investigation and we hear something like really scary that's like, you're in danger run or something where like, and it like bypasses almost your prefrontal cortex and like your body's like, fuck before you even like, so like that's one of those sentences where I'd be like, I'm not fucking out of here. I don't know what it means. I don't like really understand the syntax or grammar of this threat.

But I know enough to know that I shouldn't be here. Totally. My nervous system is fucking on alert now. Thank you. Yeah. Agreed. Forget it. Because coming, they're scaring me.

It's like, wouldn't you want to be scaring them? Yeah, right. What do you mean? Or they're coming back to the house. Like, I want to yell speak on that, but like not really. Don't speak on that. I don't want to know. Well, then they, during their walkthrough, they interview one of the bartenders down in the saloon because they know that downstairs is also still haunted.

Sure. And the bartender literally tells them so creepy that, quote, the matchbooks rolled down the bar like a square, like this is my phone, but like a square, like they flop like this down the bar. They flip over? Yeah. Okay. Hello. No thanks. I don't like that very much at all. The bartender then says it's always the fourth barstool, but it always falls.

by itself, which can confirm from somebody else. I mentioned in last week's episode. And it's always weird to me when it's the same one. Because I'm like, whose stool was that, you know? Like, was that your favorite stool or are you, is it just a memory replaying? So you're always on that same stool. Right. Is it like a one-time thing?

Maybe someone was so embarrassed. They fell off the chair and it's just like haunted the bar ever since, you know? Literally haunting them. It's, I mean, it would haunt me probably, yeah. 100%. Um, in the ballroom, I guess the, after the club closed and some of the spaces upstairs got reconverted, it became a ballroom. Mm-hmm. Um, a psychic saw a man in a dark jacket who likes to kill.

Okay. Again, a little too good to be true for me. It seems like a little, uh, wow, that's, thank you. That's a nice introduction. If he's telling the truth, horrifying. Like, is there not anything else that you like maybe to introduce yourself before? killing? Like no, you didn't see any other ghost, just the killer. That's a little too good to be true for me. Oh, I'm thinking that the ghost is just like, hi, I'm so and so and I like to kill and

the medium's like, um, that's quite an introduction. Um, wow, yeah, either way. It's rough. I guess it would be the person like that has the most energy that would, that you would see. So yeah, yeah, I like to kill. Oh my God. And then they disappear. And you're like, um, what? That's, the ghost hunt can be really scary you guys. I'm remembering this now. You're like, any corner I turn, they could be there. I mean, it's like the crawler in that one place or like fucking Randall. It's like, where are you?

I don't like when you disappear. There's, oh, my dog is outside. How'd that happen? That's fascinating. Something's happened. Whatever. Not my job. Something's happened.

Allison's on it, I'm sure. I'm sure. So the crypt. Can't forget the crypt, the temporary morgue. Can't forget it. People have walked in and seconds later had to run out vomit and then refuse to come back in or say what they saw. Holy shit. That's pretty telling.

The vomit always gets me. I'm like, that one you can't totally hide. Yeah, and that feels like an intense thing to invent or like to fabricate. 100%. I'm like that one. If people can see it. That one's too dramatic. Like if you, if you make that up, you're fucking, you need.

You need to see a psych. Yeah, you need, like, more help than I can give you. Yeah. During the walkthrough, they also go back into the room where the infamous apparition happened. And during this comes, during the scene where they go back into the room, because of course, it's the walkthrough. So Zach is a little cocky about how the night's going to go. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

This scene, fun fact for everybody, is where we get the famous line in the now intro. you wanted us, you got us. No! That's dope. I remember hearing that and I went, I know that one. That's delightful. I'm so happy we found the origin story. I would like to eventually find all of the clips that make up the full episode.

Well, remember when I watched every single episode just looking for certain words to make you a pregnancy announcement video? I still think it was probably one of the greatest gifts I've ever been given. The sick part is that like I watched so much of it, but I didn't internalize it because I was listening. listening to every single word. So I was watching it, like, from this weird, sick perspective of someone who didn't, like, comprehend the sentences, but just like, so, like, a lot was happening. And I'm certain I watched a lot of stuff that I have no memory of because I was just, like, parsing every word looking for, like, pregnant, you know. I will say in the world of gifts that require effort, I don't think it'll ever be matched.

That was, like, you had to, you had to put yourself into psychosis, I think. Well, it's because I, it's called pregnancy. And I was. pregnancy and I was not allowed to drink right so I was like I need to fixate on something to get me by any crutch will do my god yeah I still to this day I think about it every now and then I go that was a really thoughtful gift it has a lot of YouTube videos which is so weird because like I kind of tried to forget about it instantly after I did it and it does still have quite a view viewership so you have to be proud of yourself that was the Maltese baggins I forgot what it was That was, I mean, I'm just going to keep repeating myself, but thank you a thousand times for that one.

Oh, well, also I'm sorry a thousand times for that. No. You're also welcome. It really set the bar. Like now I feel like, and it's in a link. I could literally send it to people and be like, this is what I expect. So sick of me. Here, it's the gift that keeps on giving.

So what else happened? They hear a male voice. They smell cigar smoke, which is implied to be the bad guy who likes to kill. they Oh, then, oh, this was, this is pretty good. They ask for the ghosts to show themselves and then something gets thrown at them.

That's pretty fun. A brick? I think a rock. I think it was like a pebble. Still not good. During a spirit box session, they, I'm so glad I put this note for myself.

This was a spirit box session, but because this was even only five years after their documentary, it's still 2009 before like ghost thing's a big thing. They called the Spirit Box new tech. It was like their first time ever using a spearbards. Wow.

They don't know Bill Chapel yet, huh? I literally, yes. That's exactly right. And they got the words help, listen, and trouble. Wow. Creepy but vague. Mm-hmm. And then at 3 a.m.

Oh, okay. I'm glad I put this in for myself too. Thanks, Passam. At 3 a.m., the Constantinos joined them to do an EVP session. Okay, okay. So Zach feels something step forward. They do a little EVP session and when they play it back they got an EVP that says it was me. Yuck.

Gasp. Then they ask, how does it feel now that Ghost Adventures is back? Yeah. The EVP says, we're not scared of them. They then say, tell us how many of you are here. They get an EVP that says better not. Yuck. then they said, do you follow

did you follow Nick home yesterday? They don't really give context, but I'm assuming Nick felt creeped out after their first walk through. Yeah, it fucking hates him. Yeah. So, did you follow Nick home yesterday? The EVP says, yeah. And then they say, was it to scare him? And then the EVP jokingly says, never.

Never, I would never do such a thing. So you've little o me. Oh, who, little me. They then hear footsteps upstairs and immediately get an EVP that says, Nick, go home. They really don't like this fucking guy, man, this poor guy. Literally the next question is, who is this message for? And they get an EVP that says, I hate Nick. This kid, you can't get away.

Nick is like, I don't even want to be here, okay? I'm just like shocked that Nick's the one who's getting all the hate. I know. And like the irony, by the way, is that the only reason they're back is being. because the ghost keeps saying their names. It's like, if you just kept my name out of your mouth, I wouldn't be here. Totally keep Nick's name out of your fucking mouth. Like, I'm only here because you want to fight.

Let's fight. You know what I'm saying? 100%. So Aaron starts doing the whole like, oh, energy is draining out of me thing. And he's fading in and out and he's acting really weird. Is it Zach or Nick saying doing that? Aaron. Oh, Aaron.

Sorry. He feels left out. He starts getting woozy. And then they get an EVP that says, it's only. me. Ew. And it makes me think it's like on air on Aaron like it's only me like giving you a hug. Yeah.

Like nothing to worry about. It's just me walking through your body. When they ask to when they ask the ghost to yell their names if they want the crew to leave. Like it's like if you don't want us here, then say our names one more time. Something yanks on Zach's shirt. And at the same moment they get an EVP that says groff. which is Nick's last name. Holy shit.

They're like, we only know one name. And you know what's so... We're never going to stop saying it. You know what's so weird about this? And then the episode ends with them seeing a weird miss and they hear a voice apparently, but then the episode ends. What I think is so weird about this, and I can't tell if it's a pat on the back to them or if it's like, I don't know what it's telling of.

But they got a whole TV show because they got one apparition walking by. Meanwhile, all of this is so much scarier to me. and it was just like a random episode. Like they got so much more out of this episode than I don't know what it means. I think it means that like when they did the documentary, they were kind of like still amateurs. And like then when they did the show, they were like,

we got to step this up and really like get content. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe the pressure was on even more. Yeah. But it also begs the question like, oh, well, if they're getting this kind of quality now after they have a TV show,

show like are they faking any of it right exactly yeah or like maybe it's on the flip side maybe it's a testament to like the power of digital recording devices on investigations and having like multiple having the constantinos there too and who knows yeah yeah i don't know i it's uh something to think about i guess but i thought it was interesting um okay so that was the first episode of ghost adventures or the the second time they've been there their return the first turn. The first chapter. Okay.

And now we're at the final chapter. This is their second episode of Ghost Adventures or their third time being there. Okay, great. It's in 2018, a year into our podcast. And it really is a wonderful journey through the evolution of Ghost Adventures from 2004 to 2018. You can definitely see that the production budget has grown because in 2018, they're now doing the intense, unnecessary redramatization. in the beginning. Oh my God, but the, like, crazy, like, twitching girl with her necks cracked sideways. And I'm like, what's happening here? I think it's always the same girl dressed in a different lady white

outfit. And she's just twitching in a different way. I mean, 100%. I totally agree with you. I feel like they probably had her do just, like, a hundred different positions that one day. And then they just use that B-roll, a different clip for every episode. And she got paid for one day a work. And then a different filter of, like, a different, yeah, lighting. Yeah, totally. Um, so there are a reason for coming back, you wonder, because last time it was that they, the EVPs were calling for them. Right. This time, calling for them. This time, a quote from Zach Begons himself, I've been getting messages and visions and dreams of coming back here.

That's the reason. That's the whole. Then he says, this is the last time that we're ever going to come back here. Okay. A famous last words. Now, this is where I have to, I've, we've never, we've never. I never had to do this before in the podcast where I have to call back to your episode about the Constantino's about my episode about the documentary.

It's a real mind fuck right now. But you actually watched some of this episode. Yes, I did. Yes, I did. Okay. So in this part, I'm going to be actually calling back to things you mentioned about the episode. Oh, okay. Okay.

So that makes sense? Yes. Okay. So as you mentioned the last time. when you were watching this episode, it really seemed to bother you. And I'd actually forgotten that you said anything because it bothered me separately.

And then I went, oh yeah, Christine said the same point. I don't remember. When Zach says, this is a place that left its mark on me both physically, mentally, spiritually, and emotionally. Fucking dumb as shit, dude. I know that's so silly, but you said it.

And I, on my own, I went, that didn't sound right to me. It still triggers me, okay? I'm like, come on, both. You know, both and and yet both again. Yeah, both and both and both. Yeah.

So you also mentioned that in this episode, as they're walking through the location, which how many times can you walk through the same fucking location? I say as I've covered the Winchester mystery, I was like six fucking times. As we've walked through that a million times yet. But, yeah, they found a way to do it again. And this time it was,

they were able to film something different, which you remember was the display of items from their first investigation is now just sitting out for people to see when they visit this place. Okay. Yes. Which is so funny. It's like a fucking museum exhibit. Yeah.

They had like Aaron's visor like you said. They had like a camera that they got the apparition on. That says like the town's name or whatever. I'm like, what are you guys doing? Well, and it's I'm glad that I saw the original documentary now because when you talked about it, you were saying like, oh, and one of the original cameras from when they went ghost hunting. Oh. I can now update you and say that was the camera they got the apparition on it.

Oh, that's the apparition one. Okay, okay. Yes. So basically, I guess the information had come out in between 2009 and 2018 when they last filmed there. But in this episode, they bring in new history that says in the 1870s, there was an explosion that killed 12 people and body parts were in the street. It was very morbid and gross. Whoa. They got really, yeah.

I mentioned that in the previous episode, and I had seen that information from different areas. I didn't know that it got covered in Ghost Adventures right away when I said that. Yeah. But I guess now they're up to date, and they're not talking about that in this. So maybe that's their new angle in this episode of like, did these people die in an explosion? Yes, okay. Now, Room 12 is called the demonic spirits room. Things have really changed since they got a little.

This house is very similar to Zach, where they, the ego boosted itself. You know what I mean? It really, the attitude needed no, needs a lot of adjusting, but it's too late. It's far too late for that. Yeah, it used to just be a random place that nobody goes under that. And now of a sudden we've got the demonic spirits room, you know? Yeah, now it's on display behind glass.

Yeah. So the reason they call it the demonic spirits room is because at least 26 people at the time had been scratched here, including a young girl. Jeez. As we just mentioned, by this time that they're filming the, final chapter. The Constantinos have passed. So that becomes a big story arc here where they are while investigating.

I understand like it was technically like for TV that they were probably expected to talk about the Constantinos a lot. Right. But it is also like really, it's not their fault, but it was really awkward to see them like clearly mid-grieving or if they had already grieved, they're now like opening up old wounds for TV. Oh, completely agreed. completely agreed.

It was very weird because I was like, you clearly actually did care about these people and like, you can't feel good talking about this, but maybe you feel obligated to. Yes, they were like grieving on air. And it was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like they were holding each other and crying. And it was like, usually if Zach is crying in a haunted house, like, I want to laugh about that. And this really had this plucked me out of the situation. I completely agree.

And I also feel like it was a little bit of, like, I feel like they try to spin it like, oh, my. gosh, the ghost. It must be the ghost. And I'm like, no, you're all just traumatized, babe. Like, you're fucking in a place where people you really liked and cared for. And met here. And met here. Like, of course, you're fucking crying. Yeah. So it's kind of odd. It's like, it's like, I feel like I'm like not supposed to be seeing it. You know, it's like, it's like, it's like a little personal. Felt a little intimate. Intimate. Yeah. I was shocked that they were so open about just crying. instead of like the classic exact thing would be to be angry, you know? Me too, yes.

Or blame something else. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It was just a weird episode, but I don't think they, I don't think it's their fault. It was just, no way to make it not weird, you know, because like obviously this is a deeply traumatic thing. Like, there's no way around it. 100%.

So since Ghost Adventures is now so famous at this location, you mentioned this, that during their, walk through I'm just going to read exactly what my notes say because I want to make sure I get this right since Ghost Adventures is so famous at this location and Tours constantly mentioned the show

maybe Zach is getting the dreams he mentioned of why he's coming back I have these visions and dreams oh yeah maybe these dreams are because the spirits are annoyed with him that's one theory they're like maybe the spirits were like

can you shut the fuck up up everyone that comes through here is talking about you and we already hate you Oh, and they're like, God, we have to hear about you forever and ever. Well, why don't they hate Nick anymore? That's a great point. I don't know. Maybe they said everyone now.

After you hear it over and over, it's like, oh, my God, with these people. I feel like Nick didn't get much of a display in the display case, you know. Isn't that funny that he was the most hated? Maybe they couldn't. Maybe if whatever they put in there would just get, like, messed with. Oh, wait. Also, doesn't Nick not have a good relationship with Zach anymore? Didn't you write a book about it?

Yes, but it's. Oh, that was a long time ago, though. No, no, no, no, you're right. Nick is no longer on the episode. He's not here anymore. Oh, so maybe they, oh my God, imagine this behind the scenes in all the footage they didn't use. It's just like, Nick Groff, Nick Groff. And Zach's like, fucking talk about me. What if Zach called them in advance and said get rid of anything that Nick was a part of? Like, yeah, we don't want to talk about anything, Nick. That's off. Like in the display cabinet, whatever he had in there, get rid of it. Off the table. Actually, that sounds so on brand. Feels like they're probably still blabbing on about him and. Zach's like, no. Well, so during just the walkthrough, Aaron starts feeling really hostile. Now we've got like Billy and Jay and like remember Dakota, may his relationship with

Zach rest in peace as well. I think it was Dakota's first investigation or it was their first investigation like there at least. Gosh. And Zach says they won't go into the upper floors until they investigate purely because like during the walkthrough, they're not even going to go upstairs because Aaron is already feeling so tense and that something's already affecting him. But he's like, let's just hang out down here so we get the first real reactions upstairs

when we're investigating. Okay. Okay. And his quote about this is, in spite, which I think he meant despite, in spite of my decision to not go near the upper floors, we move to the crypt, which opens up to the second floor. So he was like, I know I just said that we're not going up there, but I'm going to like fuck around with the area anyway.

Despite my own rules about it. In spite, actually. In spite of my rules. I'm going to, yeah, what the fuck? They reach up with a boom mic, which I think you would probably remember this scene. But they decide. Oh, I do, actually. So they refused to go upstairs, but they were still going to, like, put equipment upstairs.

So we've done that. We're, like, scared of the basement. Let's just toss a camera down and someone else will get it later, Eve up. So basically, they took, like, a really tall, hole that had a microphone at the end of it. And they stuck it, they reached their hands all the way up there and they stuck their microphone over to the second floor. So they're on the first floor, but they're holding the microphone that's hitting the second floor. And they start asking questions and hope that something will get caught on the microphone.

Okay, clever, I guess. And they immediately hear a thud on the microphone, which is like, it's a pretty big thud, but I'm kind of wondering if they just bonged the microphone on something. I remember that thud. It was pretty damn loud. I was like, oh. Zach Begins asks if they've been sending him messages, and then a pebble gets thrown onto them from the second floor. Yeah, that was weird.

It did kind of just fall from up there. Horrific. Yeah. Zach then asks if they want to show themselves and another rock gets thrown. So I love that this guy just has like a bucket of rocks. He's like, I'm ready to do this all night long. He's just choosing one little one at a time, though. They later learned that the boom mic actually caught EVPs of

voices so close to the microphone that you can't make out the words. Like it's popping. Bye, bye, bye. During this, Aaron says that he keeps getting flashes of the Constantinos, which, like, is the beginning of the whole, like, grieving scene. Yep. Yep. And then he feels something touch his head really hard.

And you see him react like something hit him. They believe that the Constantinos have entered the chat from the beyond. And basically, they feel like that is confirmed for them when they play back the EVP later and the voice that they had been hearing was Debbie's. Oh, that was freaky. It does sound like Debbie's voice. They really were like thrown by that. Yeah, that was scary.

And I could see why that would trigger breathing again. Like, oh my God. Totally. Totally. My friend's fucking voice. Who's dead? Oh my God. I mean, oof.

And then that turned into like a, I mean, that again, it was like one of those things where like I was just genuinely creeped out because it was like a. ghost evidence, but also I was like, ooh, but I don't, I feel weird being spooked when like I feel like I should, I'm watching a tender moment, you know? Yeah. Yeah, it is weird. It's like, how do you even approach this? Yeah. Um, here's where we get into. I think this was the last scene you watched and then you turned it off so that way I could tell you more about it. Yes. Yeah. Do you know what scene I'm about to talk about? Um, remind me. I will when you say it. It was before the investigation and they need to kill some time. So they go. Oh my God. Oh my God. This is the best part. Oh my God. They go to

fucking make candy. Chocolate turtles. Chocolate turtles. And he's like just being such a fucking weird middle school boy. It was and then they had, there was a little boy there who was like calling him out being like, did you really make this or did you like watch someone else do it? He literally was like, did you make this or did you just put it in the oven or something? I was like, whoa. Jesus. My favorite part which you left out is that Zach mentions that, yes, they're at a candy store and yes, he's making turtles, but he is on a sugar-free diet. Oh, yeah. And he says, there's a quote, he says, he's on a sugar-free diet, which has a really bad side effect. Let's just say the effect, let's just say the effect of sugar-free candy is gastrointestinal and leave it at that. Okay, so you like gave us everything.

Thank you. But also, like, why was that mentioned at all? I didn't have to know what kind of, like, it already makes no sense that you're at a and you start making turtles. Like, now you're just going deeper. And now you're just changing the subject to something completely different. And also like, yeah, okay, so maybe if in 10 minutes you're like, oh, I got to run to the bathroom, then it's like, okay, tie back.

I see why they mention it. But like, it's just like said and then there's no mention. Like, like, you could have just said, we're making turtles and then like posed with the turtles and then gone back. And been like silly and it's like, oh, no, no, no. Nobody asked. It was not a storyline. It was just a weird.

100%. Yeah. So anyway, as you mentioned it, Zach offers one to a kid. The kid says, did you make it or just put the chocolate on? Anyway, so I wanted to make sure that I gave that the love that you mentioned. Thank you. I'm glad you remember.

I'm glad you mentioned the sugar-free thing because I clearly. Once I saw the turtles, I went, well, I'm going to write this down. So. Yeah, the turtles is out of control. I had to stop watching because I was like, this is actually like, I can't do this alone. I need to watch it first before I discuss it any further. So back to the investigation, which thank you for letting me still give you an element of surprise here. Oh, please.

Now they're at the investigation. Billy cares about being here a lot because apparently this location separately from the Ghost Adventures crew, this place made him a believer. Oh, interesting. Okay. So I guess it was the first place he got touched. and there were some weird anomalies on camera. But also, this is where I put the note that Billy and Jay are now in the Ghost Avengers crew, which means Nick and Zach have had their big falling out, and Nick is no longer there.

So no more Nick hating evidence. But I did put time codes for people if you would like to go back and watch the episode, the final chapter. At 1850, there is a EVP of a voice clearly saying all the time. and it sounds like a real ass person in the room. Ew. But they were, you can hear them talking and it was never there. And then they played the sound back.

Ew. At 1920, the same voice, it sounds like a real person in the room. They get an EVP saying, how do you know it's my name? Ew. And it had like a really thick accent, like a minor's accent. It was very weird. It was not anyone in the room. Huh.

Zach then later feels something affecting him to a point where he just can't talk, of course. And so at the same time that they are using the SLS and it catches a full body, which this is always, it's always creepy to me when the SLS, you cannot control that in all. Yeah, that part's weird. Because that's the stick figure one for people who aren't familiar. So he's using the stick figure camera. They catch something at the exact same time they got a spirit box female voice talking to them. No.

And while upstairs, Zach says, do you want us to go upstairs? And the spirit box says, keep going. No. Zach asks, who's with us? And the spirit box says, I am. Okay. Don't be ridiculous.

Who is this? Zach is in one room and he thinks he sees someone in the camera and then gets a gross snarl on an EVP. They then, this one freaked me out. The door closes by itself and you can hear it slam behind them. And it's just the two of them up there. Yuck- I don't like that.

Earlier, this is, okay, this is also like another grieving moment. Like, there were two of those in this episode. I guess this is the main one, but basically earlier,

Billy got, did an EVP session and he got really emotional talking about his time here with the Constantinos. This one was the part that was really awkward to watch because he's just like breaking down, And he's by himself because he's doing an EVP session in or he's just standing there and they're just filming him just like crying, talking about his friendship with them. And I was like, oh, this is rough. Yeah.

During this, he actually caught Debbie's voice clearly saying, I feel like this is, if you're going to watch anything, this part is for sure worth it. It's at 325. He got really emotional talking about the Constantino's. And as he's breaking down, you can hear on the playback, Debbie's voice specifically saying, Billy's upset, okay? As if she's like telling the other spirits to back off. Holy shit. You could straight up hear it. And it is for sure.

Billy's upset, okay. Billy's upset, okay? That is chilling. That is chilling. He's like losing it. And like, which like, away from all of this, it's nice to know that there are some ghosts that are on your side, like that are. Yeah, true.

That are like, hey, give him some space. But if you're having a bad day, there might be a spirit in the room, like, telling the other ones to back up. Rallying for you, yeah. So this part is also super fucking creepy. Like you should go back. I'll send you the link to you, at least. Okay. But you should go back and watch this clip on your own when you can.

But at 3350, all four of them are in nerve center and like they're watching the empty rooms, the X cameras. And there's, it's just them. But upstairs, it is the longest, loudest footstom. for like a full minute and like it's so funny to watch these like four men immediately turn into like freaked out boys going like what's going like they're but they're trying to stay quiet but their faces it was and it is scary as shit the sound upstairs is okay I maintain to this day that hearing footsteps never sounds as scary as it actually is because when you are in a house and you know there's no one there and like growing up I'm sure you had footsteps and your did you

have footsteps growing up, like at your house. And my dad's, it was always the stairs right outside my bedroom. And I got so used to it that like people would stay over and be like, who's coming upstairs? And I'm like, oh, that happens every night. But like, you hear footsteps. And it's like, there is a person there. Like you hear the person. It's not like, oh, I heard a little shuffle. Maybe it's a footstep. Like you literally hear someone walking. And it's like, it's horrible. It's not. You don't have to wonder. You don't have to think like, oh, it's the floorboards creaking. What could that be? Yeah, there's no doubt.

Climbing the stairs. No doubt. That's what's happening in this episode. And they're all freaking out and trying to stay quiet for the audio, but they're freaking out. Right. Which I like to think if the Constantinos are going to show up at all, like you would hope as they're friends and you have a ghost TV show. And all the five of you have ever wanted to do when all of you were together is get evidence. This is the moment for ghosts to fucking appear.

because like they know what your intention is. They are your friends. They want you to succeed. They also wanted evidence. So from beyond the grave, they can now show you that evidence. Like this is the moment for them to step the fuck up. Like,

yes. Yes. It's a big, the spotlight's on. Like, Debbie, this is your moment. You know what I'm saying?

Step forward. Um, so we kind of get a whiff of that coming up. So after they hear like these horrifying footsteps, of course, Zach sends Aaron up there alone. Um, And he uses the obulus, which says the words shoot, high, and then it says door. Now, the room that he's in is the room where someone died by a self-inflicted gun.

So we got shoot. Oh, dear. Oh, dear. And then hi. And then door, as if maybe he is the one who closed the door earlier. Oh, oh, hi. I'm, oh, no. Oh, no.

Billy, then later, one of the cameras starts freaking out in a way that I have not seen on the show before. and when they go to check it out, something throws a quarter at them. Coincidentally, which at the time I was like, all right, we're really playing into the storyline here. The date on the quarter was 2015,

which was the year that the Constantino's died. Oh, my. They really read into that, and they're like, holy shit, maybe it's a sign from them. So they turn the ovulus on, and they get the word, communicate. Zach then says,

oh, like how they threw that quarter to communicate with us. Right. And then he talks about the quarter again. He's like, oh, that was a shiny new quarter. And the obulus says, fresh. And Zach says, who was this a message to? The obelus said, you.

Nick Groff. You. Zachman says, who was this a message from? And then the obelisk said, us. And when he says, what did you do with this quarter? The obelus says these three words all at one time, back to back, drop coins portal. there's a portal like I don't know if you can see it

anyway uh goose cam it's it's slightly delayed so I didn't I thought maybe you had a bug on you but you're doing you're doing a goose cam yeah a goose cam moment I mean same big time um but so that was just super eerie that like it's confirming that like we yeah we're on the other side and we're trying to communicate with you by throwing coins at you yes they're fresh and shiny um holy shit though dude so anyway I hope that nobody is an enemy towards spoilers because this was just one big spoiler episode. But that is, it was an incredibly long episode. Thank you for holding out.

That was the Washoe Club from the ZBCU. And please, please don't ever make me talk about Zibi ever again in my life. Zbc, you. Thank you. Listen, it was worth it for my own enjoyment. Thank you. Thank you. I don't know if anyone cares, but I care a lot.

I care a lot. I mean, I was happy to do it, but I'm aware that some people are probably like, can you not just do some, like, retell someone else's fucking work? Well, you do. Well, come on. Come on, guys. That's what storytelling is. Anyway, if you're a fan of what who Zach Began does and what he's done to us over the years, please.

What he's done to us. Just psychologically as a group, what he's done to all of us. Spiritually, mentally. Yeah. I hope that you really like that episode. So I enjoyed it deeply, immensely. Thank you. Very good job, M.

So do you plan to go elsewhere next week then? Go anywhere next week. Sorry, go elsewhere with your notes. Like, so you are officially finding a new topic. I'm officially finding a new topic unless I swear to God and you're part two. You're like, and then Zach Begin said about. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think the Dorothy Arnold part two has any, but you never know.

This man just finds a way, okay? He finds a way. And I'm sure he'll appear in my other stories one day, but let's take a break. He'll make himself known. Don't you worry. Yeah. Maybe I'm not supposed to say this, but in the copy we received for this, it says, talk about someone you hired who was not only qualified, but also genuinely interested in your open role and how that influenced your decision to hire them. Enter Eva. Who, who. A plus B equals C. Immediately in our interview with her, we were like, tell us all about yourself. Also, like, casually, what sign are you? astrologically speaking. Do you believe in ghosts? What's a weird story from your childhood? But she fucking was ready. And let me tell you, we interviewed a few other people. Some of them were certainly not. And by the way, it was the same day.

Like, it was the same day. Truly. I feel like people think that we're making that up, but it was the same day. It's insane. We closed the role. Like immediately. It was amazing. We signed up and we logged out.

That's what happened. We said, that's awesome. And then Evo was there. If you're hiring, you want a candidate who's passionate about your role. But you can't get that insight from a resume unless you post your job on ZipRecruiter and now you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com slash drink. And ZipRecruiter has a new feature that shows you the most interested qualified candidates first. So you meet the right people faster, which means Eva would have been like candidate one instead of like four that day.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. You can find candidates who really want your job on ZipRecruiter, four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter, get a quality candidate within the first day. So we are a statistic, Christine, finally in a good way. Try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash drink. That's ziprecruiter.com slash drink. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. Sometimes you just need a little gift to brighten up your week to get out of that daily grind, the slog. It's Wednesday night and you're like, oh, gosh, I have to make dinner again.

I just did that yesterday. But HelloFresh is here to save the day. Yay. It's always been there for us. It has. Especially on days where I want to eat something yummy, but I just don't know what I want. I don't know how to make it, but that recipe one time looked really good. Now it's at my door and now it's in my fridge and now it's on my counter and now it's on my

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which is a 189. 99 value on your third box. Free meals applied as a discount on the first box. New subscribers only varies by plan. Disclaimer must order the third box. May 31st, 2026. All right. We're back.

We discussed a lot of important topics. And now I have a beautiful part two to give you. This is part two of the disappearance of Dorothy Arnold, which I very stupidly missed last time. And I remember now why it got cut short. It's because the episode was really long. And I had a meeting I forgot about like in 20 minutes. I just fucking bolted.

So I apologize. Here we go. So I have a little recap for everybody, including especially myself. Okay. But what I mean, yeah. Here is the recap of the disappearance of Dorothy Arnold part one. 1910, Dorothy Arnold was New York royalty. She was born into massive wealth with a family tree tracing back to the Mayflower,

lived in a literal mansion on the Upper East side. Her parents, Frances and Mary, expected her to follow, like, the Gilded Age Path playbook at the time, which was just to like marry a wealthy guy and then be a socialite. But Dorothy had other plans. She went to Brynmar. She really wanted to become a published author. She had submitted a few pieces to literary journals and received rejections. And instead of supporting her, comforting her, her entire family mocked her. And when she asked to get a studio space in Greenwich Village for some privacy, to write, her dad said, anyone who can write can write anywhere. So figure it out. And also,

you can't leave this house until you find a man that I approve of. Then they're doing this debut town ball for her sister. They're prepping for the Debbie Temple. It's all a frenzy. And Dorothy heads out for a shopping trip in Manhattan and seemingly was in high spirits. She rejected her mom's offer to join her on the trip and went solo. She midday bought a box of chocolates and a humor book called an engaged girl's sketches at Brentano's bookstore. She's reported as being smiley, having high spirits. 2 p.m. she runs into her friend Gladys King on Fifth Avenue.

Yes, I remember Gladys. Remember Gladys had a muff, a furry muff. Who could forget Gladys's muff? Not me. Who could forget Gladys is furry muff? Timeless muff. And she pulls the RSVP out of the fucking month and is like, this is for your sister's party. And she's like, thanks.

And like took it. And then Gladys says, okay, I'm off to meet my mom at the Waldorf Astoria for lunch. And they wave goodbye and Dorothy was never seen again. Now, her family notices she's not there. And instead of reporting her missing, they wait six weeks to tell police that their daughter is missing. And that's where we left off. So when parents, when the parent, sorry, go ahead. Well done.

Well, well done with the recap. Oh, thank you. So when Dorothy failed to return for dinner, um, her parents were a little worried because she was usually very timely, but they decided not to call the police and instead began privately calling

friends and initiating their own discreet searches. And as part of this, they hired their own lawyer to do a separate private investigation. realizing the severity of the situation, the lawyer came straight away. He was a close family friend named John S. Keith, and he immediately searched Dorothy's bedroom. Almost everything was precisely where it belonged,

indicating she hadn't packed a bag. She had left her passport and suitcases behind as well. However, Keith discovered that some papers had been recently burned in the fireplace. It was heavily speculated that these were the rejection letters from the publishing, from the journals that she had submitted to, that she was burning in the fireplace out of embarrassment.

So Keith spent several days looking everywhere. He even went to like hospitals, morgues, sanatoriums, like to see if he could find her admitted somewhere, but had no success. So he realized he couldn't get much farther without hiring help. And that's when he convinced the Arnold parents to hire the Pinkerton National Detective Agency.

Oh, I love that. I know. And the Pinkertons, I feel like, they're just always out and about in these stories. And they always feel like a fictional entity, but they're not. I feel like it's, it's almost like a should have been Sherlock Holmes series because the Pinkertons just has the sound of like, you want to follow their escapades. Like a private eye, the Pinkerton detective agency. I mean, it writes itself. I love that the original guy who was looking around and like look through sanatoriums and stuff, it reminds me of like how men can't grocery shop.

but like this man could go to sanatoriums and look up admissions and and then asked for help when he couldn't get any further. And then he went, I need even more men on my side. And the Pinkerton said, hi, I, Captain, I'm here. You called the right guy. You called the right Pinkerton, you know. How many Pinkerton brothers are there? Don't ask me that. I have no idea. For all I know one, for all I know six. I was going to say, I feel in my mind they're triplets. I like to think they're triplets also. Yeah, something eerie is going on. Which is very weird, but like in my mind, there's just three of them and they're all the same age.

Yeah, they look identical, for sure. And they're all in a trench coat and they're walking through. On each other's shoulders. Yeah, on each other shoulders. Okay. So the Pinkertons pretty quickly stumble upon a big secret. And that is that Dorothy had a secret post office box. Wow, they're good at their job.

Immediately they figure this out. They're the Pinkertons. Of course. of course. What were you thinking? Okay. Dorothea had a hidden post office box at the 34th Street post office. She kept totally under wraps from her family.

They had no clue. And this was where she would send her submissions and stash away rejection letters. Because she was just taunted by her family. So she didn't want to be taunted anymore. So she had a private post office box. The Arnold family's, like honestly at first they thought maybe she has like a lover that we wouldn't approve. of and that's why she has a secret mailbox, but it was like just to write, which is like so sad, you know? I mean, it's not like she was trying to have an affair or, you know, not that

there's anything wrong with seeing someone at that age anyway, but like the fact that it was just to write and she felt so, like, mocked. I don't know. Or she was so, yeah, so a shame she had to hide away her only interest. Yes. Yeah, it's like dark. Um, so the Arnold family's reaction to Dorothy's disappearance, like, fucked the investigation, right? I mean, they didn't tell police for six week. So, like, yeah, they're going to be behind. Back in 1910, the immediate thought was, oh, a young woman disappears without an escort. She must be running away, having a mental breakdown, or like otherwise up to no good and smearing the family name, you know? Some sort of harlot. Some sort of harlot, like, nothing good. And so her parents were like, well, we don't want that out

there. So they did not tell anybody. But when the Pinkertons could not find her, Six weeks later, they finally convinced the parents to call the police. And Francis, the dad, was documented as being profoundly unhappy to do so. Really, really upset about this. He was resistant to the publicity and he didn't want any part in it. But of course, the moment it got out, he had to hold a press conference and give the public the update of what was going on. So on January 25, 1911, reporters gathered at Francis Arnold's business office. Like how he's like, they can come to me.

I'm not going to be meeting the press anywhere. They came to his office where he finally informed the public of his daughter's disappearance. And he also offered a $1,000 reward for information leading to his daughter's safe return. And the $1,000 reward in today's money is about $35,000. Okay. And that's just for information leading to her return. It's not like to bring her back. Yeah.

Wow. So during the conference report, Reporters directly asked Francis if he thought his daughter had run away with a man, knowing that he was strictly opposed to this storyline. Or, like, of course, they're like, that's, we're going to go straight for the thing, you know, that that's going to trigger him or piss him off. And here's what he said. I would have been glad to see her associate more with young men than she did, especially some young men of brains and position, one whose profession or business would keep him occupied. I don't approve of young men who have nothing to do. Okay.

And everyone was like, what? Yeah, that's how I felt just now. Everyone was like, what is that supposed to mean? And of course, they read into it and rightfully so. Because it turns out she was indeed having an affair with somebody her dad didn't really like. Love. She was having an affair with a guy named George Griscombe Jr. And when the press, the press didn't even know about this until her dad acted so fucking weird when they asked.

And they were like, ah, there's a story here. Mm-hmm. So they go digging. The Pinkertons are, they're itching. They're like, wow, we've really cracked this thing wide open just by accident. They're like, now we're TMZ, I think. We're like, yeah. The secret affairs.

So the affairs revealed the press uncovers that Dorothy has been having this affair with this guy named George S. Griscombe Jr. A man she had met while attending Bryn Maw, and she had become deeply romantically involved with this guy. Now, as you'll recall, she is a pretty young woman at this point. pretty young woman, but I meant she's a pretty young woman, like she's relatively young. At this point, she is 25. And her lover, the man that she was having an affair with was in his early 40s.

And so right off the bat, her dad was like, I don't think so. Because this doesn't fly. Yeah. And he did come from like a profoundly wealthy Pennsylvania family. so it's not like really the money part. But it's the fact that he was like 40, 42. And he was unemployed, had no business and was entirely dependent on his parents and still lived at a hotel that his parents paid for. And her dad was like, this guy's a loser.

And also like, I mean, I know you just said it doesn't have anything to do with the money, but that's certainly a question in the air of like, are you doing this? Like, why are you hanging out with a really rich girl and you happen to? maybe be hurting for money. Like it could be, right? Am I crazy for the second? No, he's super rich. Oh, what?

The guy who's living in a hotel and Yes, he's extremely wealthy. Oh, wow. Okay. Sorry, he comes from a super wealthy family. And it's not like the money,

like, it wasn't like, oh, he's too poor for our family that her parents thought. It was more like, well, he's 42 and he's living off his parents. Like, that's not cool, just because he's rich.

he's a loser he doesn't do anything that was her dad's take gotcha i i originally heard that as when he it's not that he didn't have money i thought you meant their their family though oh oh no so it was definitely like financially like a match right like he was a wealthy dude but he was also like an older dude who see his her dad her parents just thought of him as like this kind of loser mooch yeah yeah no ambition exactly so he griscombe this guy was frequently referred to by his acquaintances as junior, and his contemporaries described him as follows. Okay.

A plumpy, balding man with sideburns whose doting mother still buys all his shirts and ties for him. Oh, that's not kind. No. That's not a kind thing to say. No. And those are like his, like, content, I have whatever. So the age gap thing, first of all, it was like a 12 to 17, 20. year age gap somewhere in that in that range and so of course this is starting to become salacious she

shouldn't be having an affair to begin with in the eyes of like her parents and the public but um it's even more scandalous now that this is like this older man and she's missing and her dad doesn't approve yeah it certainly doesn't look good i have some if i were on the ground in this era i would be eating this up i'd be like where the hell is she with her mysterious boyfriend none of us support her in this or are we like girl get away from the guy like what's the deal and also i'd be kind of worried i agree with you 100%. I would also be worried because he has money. I'm like what could he have paid to do to get her out of the picture or to take her away or you could afford a ship or a boat or a plane or whatever to get her out of here yep and they could just be on a vacation but then like

they're never coming back you know yeah yeah yeah and so exactly it became like this big sensation. And this is like one of the earliest, like, well-known missing person's cases in New York City. So this is, like, a huge deal. So reporters dig into this, of course, and they discover that in September 1910, which was three months before she vanished, Dorothy had explicitly lied to her parents telling them she was visiting a girlfriend in Cambridge, Massachusetts. But in reality, she ran off to Boston to spend a week-long rendezvous with her lover, Griscombe. I mean, so there's a pattern here for sure. So I think when her parents, like, didn't tell the police, they were like, we know what she's up to. Yeah. Unfortunately, they didn't because she didn't come back. But at the time, they really thought, like, she's like defied us again, you know. So Dorothy, apparently on this trip, she had actually financed this week-long getaway by pawning $500 of her own jewelry, which is like tens of thousands a dollar. Like, it's a lot of money.

Like, $500 is, I think, like, $15,000. if a thousand dollars is ready. Yeah, right. Exactly. Exactly. And so she had pawned her jewelry to pay for this trip so her parents wouldn't find out. Now, the ultimatum that her parents gave her when they found out was intense. They were not happy.

Okay. They strictly forbade her from continuing this relationship. They found him completely unsuitable as a match. And of course, in addition to using her secret mailbox for her rejection letters, and sending out her art or her writing, her creative writing, she also started to use it for some communication with Junior, with this Griscombe guy. Still writing.

Still writing. Exactly. So their final meeting, the two saw each other for a final confirmed time that we know about in early November, shortly before Griscombe left on an extended European vacation with his parents. Mommy dearest. In the weeks following Dorothy's disappearance, investigators were able to verify that Griscombe was actively vacationing with his parents in Florence, Italy.

To which I say, how convenient, but whatever. So on December 16th, 1910, the Arnold family sent a telegram to Griscombe in Florence desperately asking for information about Dorothy's disappearance, because of course the first person they thought of was this guy, and they're like, he must know where she is. In a return telegram, Griscom explicitly denies any knowledge of her whereabouts, claims to know absolutely nothing regarding her disappearance, period. End of story. Okay.

Unsatisfied with this, Dorothy's mother, Mary, and her older brother, John, took a ship to Italy in January, a ship to interrogate Griscombe in person. Like, they literally got on a boat and we're like, we're going to just harass him, but give us three weeks to get there first. That feels like something that, like, everyone hopes for that, like, group of girlfriends that like it's gonna be like ride or die oh he's cheating oh well let's get in the car right now and we're all gonna go like knock on his door and call him out to his face early cross the atlantic ocean real quick that's like that's like that's absolutely and you know what if you don't have friends like that then you don't have friends period but also they like bullied her for writing to for wanting to write creative right so i'm like too little too late i think uh

they smelled the drama and they were like now i'm invested i guess her mom Her mom. Her mom. Honestly, yeah. It sounds like no one was being supportive and now all of a sudden they're going to get a shit. No, they're suddenly. Yeah, I know. So they go on a boat and I imagine like you have to keep up the momentum.

You know, when you're like pissed off and you're like, I'm going to say something. And then like you go to bed and you wake up and you're like, I'm not really that bothered anymore. But it's like they're on a boat. You've got to lock in for the length of a ship ride. Through like seasickness. No. Oh my God. I haven't lost.

I was thinking like how long, I wonder how many nautical miles that is, like how many days. Because you would think by day nine, they probably thought, I've sat on it long enough in this really. Do we care that much? I overreacted. We should turn to ship around. Like, maybe we just go to Italy, get some pasta, go home. Let's just make a trip out of this. Like, it's okay, you know.

Yeah. You know, that's how I would have felt, but no, that's not exactly what happened. They show up. They're still as motivated as ever to confront this guy. Right or die as well. I mean, really, they're committed. So they go to the Anglo-American. in hotel where they know he's staying.

They confront him in his room. I'm sorry. I have to say it. Like, for across all timelines throughout history, it just sounds like women can get it done. They're like Pinkerton step aside. I'm going to take a boat over to Italy real quick. There was no internet. Like they, yeah, all the way down to the location and room number, they got it handled.

And then they got in the room and confronted him. Hell yeah. I mean, I don't know. It's a product of the fact that it's 1910 and everyone's like, I guess you can walk in. Sure, maybe. Yeah. Or if it's like she's just like, get me over there. But either way, I love that the older brother was like, I'll come to mom.

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So you can lock in that discount on your monthly supply. Go to hellobatch.com and use code drink at checkout. So they confront him. And during this confrontation, Mary and John Demand that Griscombe hand over all the letters that he has, that Dorothea sent to him because they want to see what they say. They want to see if there's any clues where she is. He complies. and John later claimed to authorities

that he and his mother read through the letters and they contained nothing of importance and then the brother said yeah and then we destroyed them, we burned them all. Okay. I feel like that's not what you should have done. I feel like you should have at least

they didn't give them to police. They just burned them, which I bet you they were shameful. I bet you to them they were shameful. Like I bet you they thought, oh my God, we can't have this leaked. Yeah, we can't, we can't disgrace her name or something, Sully her name.

Oh, God damn it. I was really written for these people for five minutes and now I'm like, I don't actually. It took six weeks for them to care enough to tell the police that their sister and daughter was missing. Yeah, and part of me is like maybe on, let's say, not to, I'm not trying to bring back a joke after it's happened already, but this fucking ship ride. If it were a day in and like you said, like maybe they were still heated, I can see them burning it out of fury and not having thought it through.

But like you've had enough time to concoct a plan that actually is logical. And the only logical one is bring evidence home. So people- Exactly. It's like, okay, look at the evidence, burn it. Don't let anyone else see it. And then when they ask, they're like, it was nothing important. You're totally right that the only reason they would have done that at that point is if they read it and it was salacious, as you said.

Because like, if it was not actually helping where she is, then they're like, well, this is useless and also shameful and also, I mean, I don't know. Yeah, that's my gut. what the fuck do I know? But upon his, it gets really, really awkward and weird now again, because they burn all the letters. Then they get back to the United States.

And then eventually in February, Griscom gets back to the United States. And he holds his own press conference. Okay. And you know what? He probably can't know that they burned all the evidence. True. I mean, true.

He stated that he fully, intended to marry Dorothy once she was found. He got up on the big podium and said, I hereby declare if she is found, I will marry her on this very day. And then he says, as long as her mother approves of our union. And his mother said, under no circumstances. Absolutely. I never did and I never would.

Yeah. Like read the room, bud. So she literally shipped all the way to you burned everything that you have left of her. Yes. If we approve. Yeah, if we approve. We literally burned your missives to each other because we could care less. We could not care any less than we do.

What a weird thing to do. Okay. And she's like, he goes, as long as their parents approve and they were like, literally go fuck yourself, no. And so that was awkward. Then we go to this report. Okay. This is the San Francisco Chronicle. And, you know, this is obviously becoming national news.

the San Francisco Chronicle, the same month that this kind of like Griscom press conference thing happened, they report February 1911, they report, they publish a sensational report stating that clerks at the Anglo-American Hotel in Florence where he'd been staying had seen a mysterious veiled woman during the time that Griscombe was staying there, that they believed to be Dorothy Arnold. So according to hotel staff, Griscom and the veiled woman engaged in an earner. talk that the clerks could not overhear, but they noted that the woman appeared greatly agitated. Oh.

So that's like the next kind of clue, but it doesn't really go anywhere. So, okay, just from hearing that as like a, as new ears with no understanding of what happens next. So they're confirming that she was there and that she looked mad and now she's missing. That's not helpful to him. No, it's not good. But they're also saying they think that the staffs. saw her. They saw a woman that could have been her. So it's not even like, oh, they recognized her. It's sort of like they saw a mysterious veiled woman. And they're like, could it be?

You know, so it very well could be not her. But if what he's saying, I don't know if it's under oath, well, no, it's just a press conference. If he's saying like, oh, she was the love of my life and I was going to marry her, he would then have to admit that it is that it is her. Right? But like, I mean, just by that logic, it would be okay, well, they weren't doing anything romantic. It was like they were just having like a hushed conversation. Oh, right. So could be like a business person. It literally could have been like a sister, a business partner, right, exactly, some random lady.

Like it sort of feels like a dead end even though it's like, but I mean, maybe it is, but also like very well could be some other random lady with a head scarf on that you can't see, you know. So, so I, though, I'm kind of with you. in that like I feel that he's something's just rubbing me a little wrong and I'll add to it with this. Griscom had this sort of like advertising campaign he went on after this

where he in the months following this public announcement he spent thousands of dollars purchasing advertisements in major newspapers across the country begging Dorothy to come home. I know. I was like this is fucking nuts. Who does? Like, what a weirdo. He's being so fucking weird. Well, I feel like he would only do that if he knew that she wouldn't see it.

And then, so, like, I feel like he put it out there knowing that he could get away with that. Because if she saw that and the person that she's secretly in love with and her family and everyone's looking for her, she would have, someone would have. I don't know. I find it so weird. I'm like, I don't know. He's just being fucking weird as shit. So I have some, like, context here and a little bit of, like, potential theories. By the end of January of 1911, she'd been missing like a month or two.

The NYPD publicly stated they still believe Dorothy was alive and would eventually return. But a lot of times that's said, right? Like they just ran away. They're just being young and stupid and they'll come home. Spoiler alert, she did not come home. So I don't necessarily think that's true. Conversely, the Arnold family actually said publicly they believed. she was dead, that their daughter was done, which I was like, whoa, okay.

All right. I guess you'd, I guess you'd know better than anyone, but Francis Arnold, the dad, he had a theory. He held another fucking press conference where he stated he believed from the very start that his daughter had been attacked, robbed, and killed while walking home through Central Park. Okay. He theorized that her attacker had thrown her body into the Central Park Reservoir to hide the crime. but the temperature in New York had dropped to 21 degrees and the reservoir had frozen. But then they searched the entire...

Reserved Central Park, but they also searched the entire reservoir and when it thawed and there was not a trace of her or anyone. So it's just weird. Like you clearly just invented that to be like, oh, she died so tragically getting thrown into a fucking frozen lake. Too bad. Like to make your family less ashamed. I don't know.

It just feels really weird to me. Yeah. Here are the kind of rumors and theories that have circulated ever since. Amnesia, this is what her mother believed, that Dorothy slipped on the ice, struck her head, and was wandering around the country with no memory of her identity. There were a lot of false sightings all the way from California to New England. So she kind of held on to that hope, like maybe she's out there and just doesn't remember. And it does happen. I mean, it's very rare, but it does happen.

a secret elopement that she, you know, utilized like a fake passport maybe or an assumed name to travel to Europe and meet someone else, like some other unknown lover that we don't know about. It feels like a little weird because she'd had such an ongoing affair with this other guy. Yeah. But whatever. Suicide is one of the theories that she took her own life because of the rejection and the toxic home environment. But then on the other hand, you think like she went out, bought chocolates, bought a book, was like, In good spirits, planning for her sisters. I mean, again, and I like, it's so hard because you say suicide and you don't want to be like,

this is not how someone would act, right? Like, sure. I can't make that claim. And also there's the, the, I don't know what the right phrasing of it is, but a lot of people, the week leading up to it, if they've already planned something, they usually are shockingly in good spirits. Yeah, that's true. I have heard that.

They've made a plan, you know? That's true. I have heard that. there's another theory called the botched abortion theory, which is the most persistent theory and most complex and like most salacious, I would say. Dr. C. C. Meredith is the guy's name. In April 1914, police in a Pittsburgh suburb rated a clandestine maternity clinic operated by Dr. C.C. Meredith, an establishment notorious among locals as the House of Mystery

due to women occasionally vanishing after seeking services there. Oh. Yeah. And she was a powerful or important figure in town, so maybe. Like if something had happened. In my mind, if someone is in there making women vanish, why not? I could see someone thinking, oh, if it's for like trafficking, like, oh, she's a significant person or she's. Well, I think it's more that it's an abortion.

clinic. And so if something goes wrong, that they just kind of dispose of the body. Yeah. I see. I turned it into trafficking. I mean, that could have been a part of it, but I think it was more that he did like, it was called a clandestine maternity clinic. So I think he was performing abortions. And you're right. The reason this is even brought up is that during the investigation, an associate named Dr. H. E. Lutz testified that Dr. Meredith had claimed a young, well-known woman from New York had died in his clinic during an abortion and her body was subsequently burned in the basement furnace and Lutz believed that his co-worker, his associate believed that it was Dorothy Arnold.

Oh, shit. Okay. That's a pretty. I think that's a very solid lead. I mean, if she's having an affair, she's like trapped in this corner type thing, you know, I mean, it's just tale as old as time, unfortunately. And now here's another one. the Edward Glenorris confession in April 1916,

a convicted felon named Edward Glenorris, who was imprisoned in Rhode Island for extortion, confessed to one of the wardens that he had been paid to bury her body in 1910, like after the abortion. So there are multiple people now saying that this has happened. Yeah. Glennoris claimed that an acquaintance named Little Louis hired him.

They drove to a house in New Rochelle, New York, where they met two men, a physician referred to only as Doc and a wealthy, well-dressed man matching the physical description of George Griscom, Jr. Get out. Wow. I know. I know. Okay. So maybe he knows a thing or two about what happened. I bet he does.

Mm-hmm. The transport to Weehawken. Then Glenn Norris claimed that he and Little Louie were instructed to load an unconscious woman into a car and drive her to a specific house in Weehawk in New Jersey. And during the drive, he says that Glenora says that little Louis explained that the woman was named Dorothy Arnold. Shut up. Yeah, that Glenorris claimed he recognized her face, confirmed her identity by the signet ring on her index finger. And the next day, Little Louie contacted him to finish the job. And returning to the Weehawk and home, Doc told them she had died during an operation.

And Glenoris said he was paid $250 to wrap her body in a sheet. and bury her deep in the cellar of the home. Holy shit. But when formally questioned by authorities, suddenly Glenn Norse feigned total confusion, recanted his entire testimony and claimed he knew nothing about her disappearance. Police did excavate several cellars in Weehawken, but they didn't find anything.

Okay. And so the abortion theory does represent, like, a logical contiguous timeline. Yeah. If we're talking like, so the Comstock laws had been enacted, they restricted access to contraception, abortion. It was also seen as like obscene and immoral and every word in the book, right? And especially for parents like she had. By early December, so she had spent that secret week with him, remember, in Boston?

Mm-hmm. In September. So by December, she would have been like two and a half months pregnant, which would be like the turning point of like not being able. able to hide this any longer or facing like, oh, these symptoms are going to be more obvious. Oh. Also, the details from this Glenores guy are so fucking specific. Like the ring, he recognized a signet ring that like she actually owned and he mentioned it in the testimony and then later recanted, but like said he saw this ring on her finger and

she did have that. Same with the doc characteristics that he described, like all match up to the doctor who did the secret abortion. and it's just really a little bit too, I don't know, it feels like it rings a little too possible to me to discount. I agree with you. I think at this point it's either that guy's story or just general botched abortion. Yeah.

Yeah. Unfortunately, which is just tragic. So this is the last thing I'm going to say here. The last letter she ever wrote, I'm going to mention, because it's. It does give kind of an eerie little kind of aside to all this. In one of the few pieces of correspondence that did survive the sort of fiery purge that they put all her other letters through, Dorothy wrote a letter to George Griscombe Jr. detailing the rejection of her creative writing. She explicitly stated, quote, failure stares me in the face.

All I see ahead is a long road with no turning. Mother will always think an accident has happened. And that feels like intent, more intentional or more... That certainly feels sinister. Mother will think an accident has happened. I mean, that's... And it's like, we don't know the whole letter context, so maybe it's... Just pulled out of a misquoted.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's just really weird, junior and his plump-balding guy who lives with his parents and... then went on this weird romantic like quest to get her back and I'm convinced he knew she wasn't coming back I agree with you that he was just trying to get his name out as like a good guy you know he he I feel like he really knew that she wasn't coming back which means he knew something maybe not that he did anything right but maybe he knew something and knew that he couldn't tell anyone or else he's now held accountable in some way yeah yeah I do wonder if and also like if he gave the letters over to the family you can only

imagine he would have already sorted through the ones that were like sure not not really safe for work or like not if they had written about the abortion i don't think he would have like handed it over or the pregnancy i don't think he would have like handed the letters over you know right um so yeah i mean we don't fucking know it's just crazy like we don't know if she died during a medical operation um tragically we don't know if she just like got on a train and started a new life and changed her name and just was never heard again heard from again um but either way she pulled off one of the most complete disappearances in American history. There's just like no trace.

Like she just vanished. By the way, I know I've said it a bunch, but broad daylight in the middle of Manhattan. Crazy. Ran into a friend and then poof. So not even the wealth of Francis, Francis Arnold, not even the Pinkertons themselves. Insane because I had so much faith in that. I know, of all people. I was really rooting for them.

Yeah. So that is the story. I mean, she's sometimes called the girl who. never came back or like, it's just really, it's just sad. It's just sad and like, it's kind of creepy that you could just. It's a nice reminder of like how far in, you know, in a good way only, it's also in a scary way, but how far we've come technology wise, we're like if she just had a phone on her, you know, like just an airtight or something.

Like it's crazy that we would at least have a little more information. I know. It's always like that with these cases where it's like just one. thing would have really would push the needle in a certain direction but like like in Manhattan like I can't imagine a world where you live in Manhattan and there's not security cameras everywhere you know yeah except in 1910 except the 1910 I um I wonder if in the letters that he handed over it did say that she got an abortion and that's why they burnt it because that was the salacious activity oh shit maybe they did know that's where she went and everyone covered

it up oh my god um it's like all over again. I feel like the family could have been like, oh, well, nobody can know that they were sleeping together. And then that's why they left him alone because they were like, we don't, we don't want anybody to know. It's very possible, I think. It's plausible anyway.

No, no, no. I don't like how many options there are that I agree with. I really thought this was a, I don't know, you know me always thinking I'm going to solve it. Who am I, the Pinkertons? No. Listen, maybe. Well, good story saying, I can see.

why you needed to break that up if you were on your way to a meeting. And you needed to, that was a good, you weren't going to be able to do that quickly. I literally had like four, five, six pages left when I ended the last set of notes. So yeah, it was necessary. But I do apologize. It took so long. You just set up the scene last time. I did. And then I said, oops, got to go. And then forgot. No, it was very well done. I'm glad we, the, the suspense, uh, of others, I'm assuming, it was worth it. Yeah, my friend Julia was like, am I crazy or did I? And I was like, don't even start with me.

Because he's the one who suggested this topic. So he's like, I went and listened. And then I forgot part two. Sorry, Julia. Whoopsies. Well, next week, I don't know what I'm going to cover yet, but it is not going to be about Doc Begans, I promise. Allegedly, we'll see.

Allegedly. All right. We'll see you guys next week. And that's why we drink.