And That's Why We Drink - E480 Clown Bags and Accidental Witchcraft

Starting point is 00:00:00 So it took me a long time to realize, but I think a lot sooner than other people in my life who've also kind of talked to me about this, that OCD was kind of affecting all parts of my life. I didn't realize like how invasive it was all the way into the true crime. I mean, I don't think this podcast necessarily would even exist because true crime was one of my earliest interests and it really did kind of weave into OCD. And fortunately, that ended with like a positive result, right? But a lot of other things it's been negatively impacted by. And OCD, is so much more than the stereotypes you see. It is a serious and highly misunderstood condition. So we're so proud to partner with NoCD to sponsor this episode. Not every therapist understands OCD or is qualified to treat it effectively, which can make it difficult to find the right help. But OCD is highly treatable with that specialized therapy, ERP, or exposure and response prevention. And with No CD, you can do live virtual ERP therapy with licensed therapists who specialize in OCD. NoCD therapists are highly trained, so they really understand OCD. Don't judge you no matter what your thoughts are about.

Starting point is 00:01:01 NoCD therapy is covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans. If you think you or someone you know might be struggling with OCD, please don't wait to get help. Go to nocd.com and book a free call with their team to learn more. That's NOCD.com to schedule a free call and learn more. Well, who could it be? Look what the cat dragged in. You know, I said that recently to somebody and I think they were too young to understand the reference and they were like, what are you talking about?

Starting point is 00:01:40 What do you mean the reference? Isn't it just a saying? Well, just like, I don't think they'd ever heard the saying before. Is it like, oh, no. She was 12. Oh. I was like, is it uncool now? I mean, I guess. Certainly to a 12 year old.

Starting point is 00:01:57 They were like, he was like, what the hell are you saying? And I, he's this kid that's always at the dog park. And so when I saw him, I went, oh, look who the cat dragged in. And he was like, we're at a dog park. Yeah. What are you? You're not getting it. Who's that weird grown up over there?

Starting point is 00:02:10 is probably what he said. We have a weird, we have a weird bond. It's odd at the dog park. I feel like it's just age doesn't matter. Everyone's just, you see each other enough. Yeah. Anyway, you're just kind of, uh, kind of all humans, you know? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:02:24 It was, it's very, uh, utopian, I suppose, except you're at a dog park and it just smells like kind of poop all the time. And people say weird idioms like, look what the cat dragged in. I know. How are you? Oh, I'm still wearing my pajamas. as I realize just now from yesterday. So, oops. I just went to Sleepy Hollow, speaking of your Sleepy Hollow shirt that you're wearing. I just realized it's also Sleepy Hollow and it's my pajamas.

Starting point is 00:02:50 Oh, that's, is that way you got that? That's smart. It's not. And it wasn't until this moment. Now it is. Now it has to be PJs. Now it has to be PJs. And I'm going to tell you, I'm drinking my Big Bees, Moca. Big B, Mocha. So that's what I'm drinking. And I drink because, I don't know, man. I'm just trying to survive. Like, Uranus moves into Gemini on Saturday and things are about to get crazy. Do you know what happened? The last, okay, listen to this. Eighty four years ago. Okay. When Uranus moved into Gemini 84 years before that, Civil War. When Gemini, you certainly couldn't be a third one, right? Hey, stop talking. Called Revolutionary. Called Revolutionary War. This is the 250th anniversary of the United States. And as my new friend, Elisa Kelly, who was on our show and I'm now like a fan girl of and I'm so embarrassed that our relationship began with me mispronouncing her name and you having to correct me. She said on her podcast, Google real quick. And I'd like you to try this experiment M.

Starting point is 00:03:58 Google real quick, how long until an empire falls? Just Google that. Isn't it every 250 years? It sure is. It comes right up there. It's like that's just kind of how history goes, you know? Happy 250th to us. Big deal. That's right. That's right. We got Revolutionary War, Civil War. I mean, just like kind of a big deal, World War II.

Starting point is 00:04:17 Do you think people, I mean, there's no way to know this. Do you think people who, let's say, at the era of right before World War II or right before, do you think they also all knew this was kind of coming? Like, because everything you said to me doesn't totally shock me that like something horrid might happen. I mean, you're probably right because World War II, obviously, we didn't. enter until, you know, into, until the war had begun, right? And so it's like, sure, there was an act, but like, we're already at war. So it's like, what could it mean? And, you know, she made a good point too. Like, it doesn't necessarily mean, like, um, physical, like, we're all at, like, at a civil war literally on, I mean, it could, but hopefully not. Um, but, you know, like, insurrection or like, um, uh, writing wrongs and, like, like, uh, writing wrongs and,

Starting point is 00:05:10 like kind of rebelling against the system, overthrowing the system, like that kind of energy, uh, is what happens when Uranus, which is the planet of disruption enters Gemini, which is, uh, maybe the sign of disruption as far as you and I are concerned at least. So it's chaos meeting chaos. Yeah. And it's like really, it's just turns shit upside down and like it doesn't necessarily have a plan. It just kind of like the energy goes where it needs to go. And I think we all see where the energy is going. And, um, yeah, things are about to get whack on Saturday that is happening. And I think we can all kind of feel that intensity. And I think it happens also on a personal level too. So just, you know, as Gemini's, you know, we're going to have a lot of like as Gemini's does it mean that

Starting point is 00:05:57 we are safer from this or we're more, uh, we're the most affected, but it's not necessarily a bad thing. It's more like will be the most affected as far as the next several years until it changes into cancer, until it moves into cancer. 2018 was the last time was when it entered Taurus and now it's entering. So basically what has happened since 2018 to now, whatever Taurus is in your chart, that's been kind of topsy-turvyed by Uranus and now it's moving to Gemini. So because that's our sun sign, it's going to kind of. like shine a light on a lot of things and like activate a lot of things and it's going to be interesting horrifying also like three of my placements are Gemini so are they okay interesting interesting what are you know which ones only one of them's in my big three but then the other two

Starting point is 00:06:53 are kind of like further out there I don't I don't know what that means or anything but I remember being like oh my god look at me go Gemini yeah you you a little twin yeah yeah it's pretty wild stuff So I don't know. I mean, hopefully it just means only good, you know, change. Change is needed, clearly. What, is that why you're drinking? I think that is why I'm drinking. Yeah, I love that for me. I'm like super into astrology right now. And I think it's just like, I'm loved. Oh, she has a new show, by the way. It's called Astrala tea with Elisa Kelly. And every, every week she spills the tea. And it's, it's on its like second week. And it's like kicking butt. And it's doing really awesome. It's into. She like moved away from the network she was on and started her own IP and it's really awesome. So go check it out. I told her I would mention it at some point and then I kept forgetting. So this is a perfect time.

Starting point is 00:07:45 But I'm also in her little coven. Like she has a coven online where people we do like manifest like money manifestations that are also like ethical, which is kind of cool. And she talks about the ethics of that. And she's just really cool lady. So yeah, check out her show. Nice. Well, why do you, why do you drink my first?

Starting point is 00:08:02 friend. I don't know. I don't know this time around. Oh, that was my daughter. He's like, I know, I know. All that to like run and lie down, you know, like that made no sense at all. Um, why do I drink? I, I don't know. I feel like, I don't know why, but I feel like things are about to get like really busy, but like I don't have anything planned. I don't have any trips. is going into Gemini on Saturday. Maybe I can sense it. And I feel like we can sense it. And you're psychic specifically.

Starting point is 00:08:36 So you're probably like, your speddy sins are probably on nuts. Something's happening. But I don't know what it is because I don't have anything planned. But I've also noticed that I have not been planning things with people. Like there's been a few people who have reached out and like, hey, let's get dinner. And I keep putting off scheduling it with them because I keep thinking I'm busy. But then I look at the calendar.

Starting point is 00:08:54 I'm like, oh, I'm not busy at all. Ooh, weird. You're like holding space for something. But I don't know what it. it is because I would love to get dinner with them. But for some reason, I feel really, maybe I'm just mentally busy. Maybe mentally busy, like cluttered. I do feel cluttered.

Starting point is 00:09:09 I don't know why, but yeah, I don't know. I'm feeling a little off these days. And then today's go, Alison also said she was feeling off. And I was like, oh, something's in the air. I'm telling you, there is something in the air. And, like, I think I've been, yeah, I've been feeling that same way of, like, disconcerting almost. Yeah, and I don't know why.

Starting point is 00:09:27 I feel like I'm on high alert, but I don't know what for it. Yes, the hypervigilance, I feel like is getting wacky. Yeah. And even when I'm resting, I feel like I'm itchy to, I'm like, what's going on? Yeah, buzzy almost. Yeah, I've noticed that too. And I just feel like the news gets more and more absurd every day to the point. Like when I see breaking news, I'm like, oh, okay, like the Pope is arguing with the president again.

Starting point is 00:09:52 And then like also like, like Trump was supposed to say the image was doctored, but he said, I'm a doctor. I mean, you can't make this shit up. Like, it's so fucking stupid that it's like, okay, I get it, world. I get it universe. I get it God or source or whatever. Like, this shit is crazy. I'm like, is it, what are we doing? What are we doing?

Starting point is 00:10:14 Yeah. What's next? What's the plan? It can't sustain itself, right? Google, how long can an empire last? You can't sustain itself. Not with this fucking clown bag, like pressing. Clown bag.

Starting point is 00:10:25 Like, war buttons. Clown bag pressing war buttons out. That's a great image. Help. Yeah, no, I don't know what it is, but I'm just feeling a little weird. And I, like, I'm feeling, like, I don't know. It feels like this should be a moment where I'm resting, but I don't, I don't feel rested at all, even though, like, I've been sleeping a lot better lately than I have

Starting point is 00:10:43 in a long time. Same. I'm waking up earlier, like, I'm, like, for fun. Like, I, like, before this, we recorded 10, I woke up at, like, eight and clean the whole house. Like, what's happening? But also, like, I just don't feel. Maybe your Virgo rise.

Starting point is 00:10:58 is being activated. Yeah, something, something on my to-do, my astral to-do list is going off. I need a liaison speed dial, I wish. Also, I'll say one of the other reasons I drink this week is because this is my last week of this ASL class before I move on to a new one. Oh, exciting. When we, I don't think this was like intentional, but I happened to count up all the words that we've had to learn throughout this.

Starting point is 00:11:27 And it was. You just happened to. Well, I was trying to make a study guide for myself because this week coming up is our, not a test, but it's where we're expected to like be speaking kind of. And you're a Virgo Rising. So you made a study guide, which, um, and we have learned 800 words. Wow. That's a lot.

Starting point is 00:11:47 Yeah. And then, um, the very next week I'm starting my next class at a different school with different people. So I'm very nervous. Oh, God. You're going to a new school. I'm starting at a new school. school? Are you getting a new backpack? And I'm also, I'm upset because this will be the first time I'm taking the class without people I know because all my friends join this one with me. But now that I'm

Starting point is 00:12:09 going to another school, I'll leave all my friends behind. Wait, why are you? Are you like accelerating? Why are they not going with you? Just because it's, this is the end of the class, but I just want to keep doing it. Oh, they're just like moving on and you're doing it. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. And so they were like being held in remedial class. And I was like, geez. I, uh, no, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, school that I do it at, which is very lovely. It's in Burbank. I'm going to be gone now. It's called the Burbank Adult School. But it's literally a school where you can like take a bunch of different courses. It's so neat. And so it's just for adults, but it's literally, it looks like a high school. It's very weird like walking the halls with other adults. It feels like you're in high school.

Starting point is 00:12:49 Like redo. You're like cosplaying high school. It feels like I'm cosplaying high school. But it's very nice. They have a lot of different categories of classes, but I've been trying to do, like, a bunch of enrichment classes. Like, they also have a guitar class there and stuff. So, um, it's, it's been a lot of fun, but I have, they don't have any more ASL classes after this. So I have to go to another school. So now I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm joining PCC. What's that? Pasadena. Pasadena. Oh my God. How, isn't that where Al took woodworking? Yeah. We're, we're both, uh, you know, students at PCC. Oh, my God, I love that. Do you, oh, my gosh, this is so exciting. Do you get a student ID? I don't know. I haven't looked yet. I,

Starting point is 00:13:30 because I only registered last night. So, oh my gosh, this is so exciting. I mean, I'm taking a watercolor class, but it's online, which is more my speed, I think. I just, I just, um, that I love an in-person sometimes. Like, I think that might be my next step. Um, in-person's been so much more helpful because I know if I were doing it online. It's hard to keep. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I would just feel like, well, just pause it or muted or run to the bathroom and watercolor it's sort of like I'm weirdly fixated on it right now so I'm doing it every single day and it's like if I weren't that interested the online class would not work but yeah yeah yeah but also like that seems more peaceful like it is yes and it's also very like offline like analog

Starting point is 00:14:11 kind of thing yeah yeah with um ASL there there there's someone in my class that goes to the dog park so we've also been practicing together which is nice like it's oh nice I think it's been nice Is it that 12-year-old? No, it's not the 12-year-old. Imagine if I signed to him, look what the cat dragged in. Here, I bet, wait, what's cat? It's probably whiskers. Cat is whiskers.

Starting point is 00:14:33 Oh my God, yeah, whiskers. Like, look. Is this look? Yeah. I'm just like making shit up. Look what the cat. I don't know what dragged in is. Oh, I do.

Starting point is 00:14:44 I know in. I don't know drag. Err. In. I don't, I don't. I will ask my teacher on the last day. What does dragged mean? Yeah, I've grown up.

Starting point is 00:14:56 If a grown up said that to me in public outside, I would be like, mom, hell. So, yeah. Him and Hank have gotten along in the past. But yeah, I have, anyway, anyway, I'm done talking. That's why I drank. That's why I drink. Yeah. Anyway, I have a story for your day.

Starting point is 00:15:19 Anyway. I don't know why I can't just transition smoothly into anything else. Because I won't let you. Leona, as I've said before, is such a picky eater. And, you know, we're working with it. We're trying to work with her on that. And it's, it is its own thing. We're navigating it just fine.

Starting point is 00:15:37 However, I do worry often that she might be missing out on some nutrients that she's simply not eating. The moment she decides something's not for her, like, it's going to be tough to go back. okay. Most parents are not aware that 50% of kids suffer from hidden hunger, which comes from picky eating, processed snacks, a lack of the vegetables and fruit we eat just don't have enough nutrients sometimes. So if that's your situation, it's certainly mine. First day, daily multivitamins. This is so lame. I get emotional when I talk about it because every morning, Leona wakes me up and goes and gets mommy vitamins because they sent one for me and one for Leona. And it's like

Starting point is 00:16:15 become this routine, this tradition. I've never been so on top of my daily. vitamins and I'm like, wow, we're so healthy together. I mean, they're pretty wonderful. They're clinically absorbable, family safe, actually effective. And for a limited time only, our listeners are getting an insane deal. Use code drink to get up to 57% off and a free gift with code drink at first day.com. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them, so please support our show and tell them that our show sent you. So I was just on a trip with my mom and we were talking about, you know, what we do for fun and what we do on our phone. We were comparing our apps. And she on her own said, oh, I've been using this,

Starting point is 00:16:55 this one thing called Rocket Money. Have you heard about that? And I went, well, you just told on yourself that you don't listen to the podcast. She might have had too much secondhand anxiety hearing you talk about financial woes. But then I found out that she also had them because, let's just say that Apple doesn't fall far from the tree. She was all the sudden like, I had no idea that I was signed up for this thing. I had no idea I was signed up for this thing. And with Rocket Money, now it's all handled. Oh, I just found out I had a bunch of of annual subscription so they weren't coming up. And then Rocket Money was like, hey, babe, like you just paid another hundred-some bucks for this. And I went, and so thankfully,

Starting point is 00:17:28 they were able to cancel it for me. It is a game changer, guys. If Linda's on it, we should all be on it. Rocket Money, in case you don't know, for some reason at this point, if you're like my mom and you skip through our ads or something, Rocket Buddy is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel unwon subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. It is truly a game changer. Two, generations in this family can agree on that. It's wonderful. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster.

Starting point is 00:17:56 Join at RocketMoney.com slash drink. That's rocketmoney.com slash drink. RocketMoney.com slash drink. I have a story today, and it's in Michigan. Oh. And it is in an area called Allegan, Michigan. Allegan. Yep.

Starting point is 00:18:15 Cool. And even better. It's called. Even better. It can't get better than that. You can't be serious. It's called the Allegan County Sheriff's House and Old Jail Museum. Okay, loving this energy already.

Starting point is 00:18:30 Loving it big time. I really wish that they would come up with like a classier little name. Like Allegan County Sheriff. I kind of like how many words it is unironically. You know, it's like it doesn't really realize it's way too many words. How do you spell Allegan? A-L-L-L-H-H-E-G-A-N. It looks like allergy to me.

Starting point is 00:18:52 It looks like Allegheny, but without a why. I did hear other people say Allegan. Allegan. Interesting. Because I would have not said it that way. Never heard of it. Anyway, it is, yeah, it's the sheriff's house and old jail museum. So what I mean by that is, it's a museum now. It was once a combined sheriff's house and old jail.

Starting point is 00:19:15 Because now the sheriff's just who lives in the jail. Well, it was a jail. Now it's an old jail. Now it's an old jail. Because now there's a new jail. It used to be a new jail and now it's an old jail. Now it's a new museum of the old jail. That's exactly right.

Starting point is 00:19:27 The old sheriff's house in old, old, old, Allegan County, the older, older Michigan. Now that's a catchy title. I'll let them know. Thanks. So this is in the historic district of Allegan. And fun fact, this sheriff's house, old jail museum is built right across from, or it was built right across from the,

Starting point is 00:19:49 courthouse at the time. So in 1905, a courthouse was built. They needed a jail. So right across the street a year later, they made the jail. So you could just walk the people to the court house. Easy peasy. Easy peasy. Also, I imagine things had to be walkable because it was 1905. And in my mind, that means there were no cars. So I mean, back then, I feel like, because I had done that research on Pearl Bryan. I don't know why. She's always on my mind, which is just probably, I think about her a lot. And I'll tell her. I talk to her in my head a lot. Don't worry. She knows. And when Alonzo Walling and Scott Jackson were hanged, they were hanged at the courthouse right near where I live. And it's so weird because it's still like an active courthouse.

Starting point is 00:20:28 But then like the gallows out front are now just like a beautiful garden. And it's like the jail was right there too. You know, so everything used to just have a lot more heaviness. And now it's like, oh, this is just the courthouse and its official capacity. You know, like the down and dirty stuff happens elsewhere. It's weird to me when a lot of gardens were once gallows. like, now I can't appreciate this. It's like, isn't this nice?

Starting point is 00:20:52 It's like, I don't want to be here. Yeah, yeah. I do. I'm like, let me sit in it. So the courthouse was built in 1905 across the street in 1906. This jail was built. Again, the law at the time when jails were being built was that the sheriff or the warden or whoever had to live in the jail with an inmate.

Starting point is 00:21:15 What a perk of the job. I know, that feels like such a weird, like, punishment. or like law, I don't know. Imagine getting married to someone. You're like, oh, my God, he's such a great couch. He does live in jail. He's not an inmate. He lives in jail.

Starting point is 00:21:27 He's a 10, but he lives in a prison. Right. But all of his neighbors are prisoners. So, fun fact, when this jail was opened, it was considered very advanced, purely because it had hot water and electric lighting. I'll take it. Honestly, it's 1906. I can't imagine you're really getting a lot of good things.

Starting point is 00:21:46 You just told me there were no cars. And now you're telling me this place has a lot of good things. electricity. So I don't know. You know what? Maybe the inmates are living high and mighty compared to everyone else. Maybe they're driving around in Porsches and you don't even understand. That reminds me of like the squirrel cage jail.

Starting point is 00:22:00 Yes. Where a lot of the locals like freaked out because the inmates had a bathroom, like a toilet. Oh yeah. And like the town didn't like like usually have toilets in like the residential homes. You're wasting perfectly good resources. They were mad that the inmates were living, uh, the, the, the rich. and famous life because they could go poopie inside. Yeah, must be nice.

Starting point is 00:22:23 Oye, yoy. So, um, did you like how I said that? Go poopie? Do you like that? You know, and it's also like they can go poopie, but like they have to. They have to go to be inside. I know. They're kind of stuck in there.

Starting point is 00:22:34 They can't go outside like you can fucking. That's a great point. You can go outside. With the great outdoors at your disposal. Yeah, you can go poopie with a view. You can poop you with a view anywhere you want. Go fuck yourself. Sometimes.

Starting point is 00:22:49 I'm brought back to seven years old and it's the funniest thing in the world. And then I'm like, I'll come to. Like, I just learned English at that age, so I'm still figuring it out. But poopie is one I do know at that age, for sure. You know, weird to say. But when you were the first person, I didn't know, like, what to call, like, Hanks undercarriage. And you said weenie, and now it has become the staple of the, I said that when.

Starting point is 00:23:20 You said it at some point. You said something about like, I think when he came on for the first time, and he started looking at reading. And so you actually named it. And so now, because I was like, what do I call that? What an honor. So anyway, now I'm just a spoopee and weenie. There's so many worse things it could be. So I'll take the win.

Starting point is 00:23:38 I, yeah. I don't know what, I don't know why I even said that, especially publicly on air for everyone. But I clearly don't remember one minute of it. If you needed a fun fact about yourself, you didn't. I did a little, yeah, a little ego boost, thanks. Yeah. Okay. How did we get here?

Starting point is 00:23:54 Oh, hot water. What was it? Oh, hot water. I feel like I'm in hot water for even talking about weasies. Pooping inside, pooping outside. So, enough bathroom talk. Don't be disgusting, Christine. I'm sorry.

Starting point is 00:24:07 I can't get my head out of that sewer. So when it first opened, it was very advanced because of hot water and electric lighting. And the sheriff's quarters were in the front of the building. makes sense that that would be where you first go before you imagine having to walk through the jail to get to your house. Yeah, that'd be like you're like, oh, welcome back to my place.

Starting point is 00:24:26 Imagine the kids being like, oh, everyone come back to my place. We do have to walk through the jail cells. Yeah, let's practice for the school play in my room. And then like, oh, God. Let's go make slime, but first we have to walk through. Let's go watch Skibbitty toilet. Okay, I'm back to my notice.

Starting point is 00:24:47 Is everyone ready? I wish you would stop getting so distracted. Me too. I told you it's a weird day. Okay, so the front of the house is the sheriff's quarters where his whole family would live. And then by the way, imagine being the wife of the sheriff and not only do you now have to live in jail, but also it was customary at the time that the sheriff's wife was the one who like cooked and cleaned. Yeah, like had an managerial role in the jail. Like what a bad gig.

Starting point is 00:25:15 You must really love this man. Yeah. It's sort of like the first lady, but like the worst sort of outcome. Like the worst version. Yeah. And like that's a big job. Like the last lady. You don't even get to leave to go see friends.

Starting point is 00:25:27 Like you're expected there all the time. You have to cook that many meals. Yeah. Then they got to. It's probably gruel. It has to be. Just the upkeep of it. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:25:38 There's no way. That's just unpleasant. And by the way, I'm sure she gets paid zero dollars for this. Oh, right. Well, it's her duty. Oh, yes. Sorry. Duty.

Starting point is 00:25:46 I need to. please sharpen my vocabulary um in the sheriff's quarters were apparently multiple parlors so i guess he was actually living not in that bad kind of a way he had multiple bedrooms he had a kitchen he had a dining room and then also this was just noted and like really not a big deal but it sparked interest in me is that he also had a keeping room which i had not heard of do you know what a keeping room is i feel like i've heard that but i don't know apparently it's very common in like colonial houses. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 00:26:19 Essentially, they're just, like, small rooms off of the kitchen, which I thought like, oh, like a pantry, but apparently it's more like a, it's kind of like a family room, but attached to the kitchen. Like a mudroom? No. Maybe the purpose of it, it's like the size of a mud room, it sounds like, but the purpose of it was to like keep family warm back when like houses would only have one fireplace. I guess the fireplace would be in there.

Starting point is 00:26:43 And it would kind of keep you warm, which is how we got keeping. but it would keep you warm and you were close enough to the kitchen that you could still like keep the people who were cooking like either the hosts if you were a guest in the house or your parents they would be cooking and you could keep them company while also staying warm but staying out of their way in the kitchen. I love that whatever the hell that is. That's hilarious. I want to know the reason behind why such a thing was needed.

Starting point is 00:27:13 like the kids are underfoot like I don't know I don't totally understand it I tried looking at at a few different like sources about it and then the the company that gave me the the best information was Southern living about like how keeping houses are coming back oh they're coming back oh why it sounds like a panic room when it's too cold out I don't understand I think my understanding if I moved into a house and it had a keeping room it's apparently much more common these days that it becomes like a little room where like you can be in the kitchen but also keep an eye on your kid when they're doing homework. Oh, so it's sort of like what the like the modern equivalent of like, oh, you have like a little kitchen table and you sit at the kitchen table and

Starting point is 00:27:53 like talk to your parents while they could make breakfast or like do your homework. Okay. So it's sort of like that like ancillary space that's not like a dining room. Right. Okay. That does make sense. I understand that. It's like a little sitting space where you're in the kitchen but not in the kitchen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. That makes sense. A lot of people also keep like supplies in there or like you said like a desk to write. I mean, I'm taking that straight out of southern living. You're like, like you said, and I'm like, and then you say, I took that straight out of southern living.

Starting point is 00:28:19 I was like, thank you. You were saying like, I remember you were saying. It was probably pretty smart, though. Yeah. Yeah, it was really actually the smartest thing you ever said. Thank you. So they had a keeping room, fun fact, along with their parlors and whatnot in the jail in the back.

Starting point is 00:28:34 By ending up, or what, so by going through the front half, half of the, half of the, the house here in the sheriff's rooms. And then when you get to the back, there are three floors of cells, including solitary confinement. So it shifts really quickly. I wonder if like, I wonder what the entrance into the jail looks like. Like, is there like a middle room, like a mud room between them? A keeping room?

Starting point is 00:28:57 I would hope that there's something to like make sure that it's all locked up tight. So when you go to bed, they can't just waltz in, you know? Yeah, it feels like they're making it very clear the delineation between this guy and the prisoners. Like, I think they're making the delineation very clear. So you're right. There's probably some sort of buffer. But it goes from carpet to linoleum to concrete, you know? Yeah. There's no way that there's not like a middle, middle zone. There's got to be. Um, so one of the solitary confinement cells, this, like, this got mentioned in only one source. And I was like, why are we not talking about this everywhere else? One of the solitary confinement cells is connected to the furnace.

Starting point is 00:29:36 and was known as the hot box. Ah! Because it was a quote, punishing sauna. Ah! The only place I've seen this is on cat dog. And they ended up in like an outhouse that they got. Wait, cat dog.

Starting point is 00:29:52 Wait, oh, I thought you meant that was like the source where you got that information. No. Well, the first time I ever saw that was in an episode of cat dog where they like get like their, I mean, it says punishing sauna, but it was like your, your sentence to sweat, basically. I hate that, and that show used to scare me a little bit. I love cat dog. I did too. I hated that episode, though.

Starting point is 00:30:12 I still think about it. I know. I think that it's terrible. Like some sensory stuff from that show really stuck with me. Like being sewn to a cat. There's that one for sure. Okay. For sure, for sure.

Starting point is 00:30:23 The top two floors are just for the main population, but the basement cells were where, I guess, hardened criminals or more violent criminals went. I'm assuming that's also where the hop axe was. I can't imagine. That just sounds so fucking terrible, which I guess is the point. I hate also that it like kind of seemingly happened by accident. Like they built a solitary confinement and one just happened to be by the furnace and they were like perfect. Like, ugh. That sounds just so bad.

Starting point is 00:30:50 Yeah. The so the top two floors main population, when I say the basement had more like violent criminals. I don't know violence is the right word, but just more people who've committed more major crimes, I guess, because most of the end of the basement. inmates at this jail were petty criminals. Okay. Okay. Which I guess is that's, if I were a sheriff and I had to live in a jail, I would sign up for the one where I'm living with the petty criminals and not like violent criminals. And I, there's a door between us.

Starting point is 00:31:21 Yeah, agree. You know, agreed. Like maybe larceny, not like murder. Like, and this was 1906. So some of the petty criminals were like insanely petty, like insanely not even a crime. Oh, you're an orphan. That's a crime. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:31:35 get into our jail. One of them was like living with somebody out of wedlock. Right, right, right. Like, hell, I'll keep the door open between us and the jail at that point. Now you can live in my house out of wedlock because my house is a jail. Another one was shoplifting. One was being drunk. Criminal mischief, which is vague and mysterious and I love it.

Starting point is 00:31:53 Love that. Having debt. Like, I mean, these are all people that have probably been in my house. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. You live in a right, right old jail, a veritable jail. I mean, sure. I'll take it.

Starting point is 00:32:05 I've invited all those people into my house before. So in 1962, which is only, I don't know, like 56, 58 years. After only that amount of time, the jail was starting to show its age, which is interesting because they'd done renovation since. When they first started the jail, there were only spots for 60 inmates. And then by the end, it was like nearing like 200. So they clearly renovated, but it was still out of shape. I don't understand.

Starting point is 00:32:36 Maybe that was overcrowding, though. Maybe. Like, I did, I did read that, like, eventually their max capacity was. Oh, interesting. Or maybe it was, like, at max capacity. Maybe they, like, added an addition, but then, like, the whole thing just, I don't know. Maybe, okay, well, if you think about it, it was built in, what, 1905? Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 00:32:55 And they added, like, electricity and water for that time period. Like, imagine 60 years later how much that would have to be, like, torn out and redone. You're totally right. I didn't even think about that. Early electricity, you'd have to like somehow. I mean, not that I know anything about it, but. I mean, the laws absolutely should have had to have changed at some point. I imagine the technology alone, you'd have to really gut the whole place.

Starting point is 00:33:17 Yeah. That's a great point. I hadn't even thought about that. So for whatever reason, we had seen growth, but it was now at beyond max capacity. And the building was getting older. So at that point, they were like, well, should we just build a new jail? which I feel like if less than six years ago you were building this thing, put a little more time into it or whatever. I mean, I just feel like they must have not done a very good job. Like, six years is not a long time for a place to be falling apart to the point you got to make a new one. Like, what are you doing?

Starting point is 00:33:46 I agree. Maybe in 1906 they were just kind of slap sticking this thing together. Right. Like maybe they didn't think it was going to be. I feel like this always happens in those old towns where like it's the first jail, they were like, oh, we thought there would be one criminal in town. And it's like, girl, what? Well, they thought only 60 people And I guess it was Exactly. But also, again, because it's petty crime, it's like, well, were any of them really criminals? And stop arresting them, you weirdos. Yeah. At the same time, speaking of things changing, the law changed where sheriffs no longer had to live in.

Starting point is 00:34:17 Oh, thank God. In the drill. Imagine being the last sheriff who had to, and you're like, what the fuck? Or imagine the people who've been living in the like solitary confinement or the hotbox or the, normal cells. And then all of a sudden the sheriff leaves and that doubles the square footage. And now people get to live where the parlor was. In the parlor and in the in the greeting room or waiting room or whatever the fuck. I know they would have just put cells up. But I'm sure there was some sort of like those were at least the updated cells or the cleaner cells or the yeah, I'm sure that was the renovated part of

Starting point is 00:34:50 the building. Also, I'm so sorry. I have like, remember when I said these were pajamas? I realized I had a toothpaste stain on my shirt. And those are the worst. They look the worst. And then when you when you rub it and it like gets worse. So now everyone who's seen me kind of surreptitiously trying to get rid of it, it's now like bigger. I apologize. It is toothpaste. So now everyone's going to go back and just in the time code and just watch it slowly get worse. It's really a lot of scratching on my church. I'm sorry. And I'm going to stop touching it now. Okay. Here we go. Well, at any rate, by the 1960s, they were like, okay, new jail time. We don't want this one anymore. Okay. And so they at this point, which is so funny that early on, the reason they built the jail here was because there was a courthouse

Starting point is 00:35:29 across the street. Right. Now the courthouse has been demolished and so when they needed a new jail, they just built it across the street on top of where the old courthouse was. Right. So I think that's fun. I was like, oh, now the jail is where the courthouse was and the only reason the courthouse was here and the jail was there. Anyway, can we not move from this fucking street? Do they have one street and out again? I mean, maybe that they're like, it's just, we own the property, you know? I guess so. They're like, let's just keep it going. Law and order over here. Uh-huh, uh-huh. So a year later in 1963 or 1964, the Allegan County Historical Society took over the jail that was sitting abandoned now across from the now new jail.

Starting point is 00:36:10 And they were like, well, this is a great place for us to run our historical society from. So we're going to turn this into a museum. So it's not just a museum of the jail, although that's included because the cells are literally fucking right. You kind of have to. But they're they, I think they originally just took it on to preserve the jail. but since they were a historical society and wanted to have a place to keep all their like preserved documents and collections, they were like, well, we have this whole building. So it ended up turning into a jail exhibit, sheriff's home exhibit, and then also the literal 10,000 items they've collected about the county's history is also on display here.

Starting point is 00:36:49 So it's like the whole town's museum or counties. With like it sprinkled into like the fact that this was a jail. Wow. Okay. And fun fact, since this place closed, it's also been used as like a filming location a few times, but they were not projects I'd heard of. So maybe I'm just bad at movie history, but I didn't write any of the project zone. Wasn't interesting to me. Sorry, everyone.

Starting point is 00:37:12 Clearly. So the museum shows the sheriff's quarters. I think I don't, I want to say like as it was, but I don't think that's true. I think they just kind of have left some of the rooms to look like. what the quarters would have looked like and then they use that as the area to exhibit all of their collection as a historical society.

Starting point is 00:37:32 And then the jail itself they've restored, I don't know about restored, but they've touched up two of the two main floors, but on the basement floor where the solitary confinement cells were, they did not touch that. So like all the carvings into the walls

Starting point is 00:37:48 are the same. Oh, spooky. Including there's like this old scratching above one of the cell doors, it says Home Sweet Home. Yuck! Agreed. So a lot of the jail cells

Starting point is 00:38:04 look as they did, and they actually have one setup as what it would have looked like in 1906 when the jail opened, like what the OG cell would have looked like. Interesting. And then they actually turned some of the other cells into like little sets,

Starting point is 00:38:18 which I don't know how I feel about that, but it's kind of, I imagine, cool. They probably had to do it for the gimmick of getting people in there. They turned some of them into sets of what other areas of town would have looked like also in the early 1900s. That's awesome. So one of the sales is like a barbershop in 1900. Another one is an attorney's office, a dentist office, a school room.

Starting point is 00:38:42 That's such a clever idea. I think if I were running a historical society and I wanted people to actually come see what life looked like 100 years ago, and you have a whole building, I get why they would have been like, and the cells are individual. rooms, you know. That's really cool. If I were the ghost that of the jail, the inmate that lived in that one room, I'd be like, I can't even sleep in here anymore because now it's a brush. I'd be like, hell yeah. Now it's, now I've got a reclining dental chair in here.

Starting point is 00:39:09 True. Or maybe they're like at least a change of scenery. And some quilts or something. Yeah. You convinced me. All right. I will say the one of the sets is like an old courtroom. I think also I think those prisoners are not like in the afterlife.

Starting point is 00:39:22 I know sometimes they are still there, but like, get out. out of there, hopefully. Get out of there. Hopefully the doors are at least open. They know they can walk out. Please. In the set that looks like an old courthouse, which I think, or courtroom, I think it's supposed to look like how the original 1905 courthouse across the street looked.

Starting point is 00:39:41 Okay. But this is a fun fact, and it's also a quote. In the old courtroom setup is a record book listing the verdicts and the sentences of each person convicted at the jail. Isn't that fun? that's really interesting it's certainly fascinating because then you can at least see like oh this person was here because of this thing that's really cool and on top of it um the historical society keeps a lot of antiques here from the county's history although some of them are odd um tell me more one of them is like a victrola player one of them uh some of them are like world war two uniforms um which i'm sure have a lot of energy to them they're all also mannequins, which immediately freaks me out. One of them, this is a quote,

Starting point is 00:40:29 they have debris from an 1865 ship that sunk in the area where all the passengers died. Oh, geez. And then another one, this is another quote, Civil War Art Made with Human Hair. Oh, Jesus. So you can see we're very quickly turning into like, this is spooky as shit. Yeah, we're getting into like some accidental witchcraft situations here. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:40:52 And the, the. hair, I will say they think that the hair is from like people who the artist loved. Right. Like some people would make like dolls or things like that. So it is very witchcraft, like you said. It's not like just random hair. Have you seen that meme? I just saw the other day.

Starting point is 00:41:12 It was like, oh, you don't believe in witchcraft? Okay, give me a lock your hair. I was like, I'm going to start saying that. Okay, give me. I, uh, you know what? I love it. Give me, give me.

Starting point is 00:41:25 So all of this, oh, okay, I was right. All of this is in the sheriff's home area, so the front of the building, which again makes sense if you want people to see it immediately. Here's all the antiques.

Starting point is 00:41:35 And then when you go back further into the jail, you can see all the old cells. And then the exhibits in the jail cells. So during the jail 60 years, there were five deaths inside, although I did not see anywhere what those causes of death were. I'm assuming they were inmates,

Starting point is 00:41:53 but they could have also been, like the sheriff or his wife died in the house. So, um, and so that is what leads us into the ghosts. So in the front half where the sheriff lived, uh, people hear footsteps specifically in the sheriff's bedroom. Ooh.

Starting point is 00:42:10 People also see an apparition working in the kitchen and the dining room. Um, and apparently this apparition has also set off motion detectors by itself. Yeah. It's thought to be a wife of the sheriff of a sheriff that was that lived there because, again, she was supposed to do all the cooking. For some reason, we, not for some reason, I have a reason. But a lot of people, although we don't know which wife of a sheriff, we think it could be,

Starting point is 00:42:36 the best guess is the wife of Sheriff Runkle, crazy name. And her name was Elsie Runkle. And we think it was her because her stove is still in the kitchen. Oh, so maybe she's like attached to that somehow. Exactly. And at the time, like I said, it was customary for her to be doing all the cooking. Apparently, someone did the math.

Starting point is 00:42:57 And her time as the sheriff's wife living there, she would cook, on average, 24,000 meals a year. Like, this is what I'm saying. Like, don't, let's get her out of there. Like, she doesn't need to be attached to this fucking stove. Also, Sheriff Runkle, if you love her, don't make her live there. Make her go somewhere else. Don't marry her. I hope she, like, is out of there now.

Starting point is 00:43:21 I hope it's just residual. you know. Yeah. Can you imagine, like, you made 24,000 meals a year, probably didn't get paid. You had to live in a jail for love. And then you're like, and now you're still there? Oh, my God. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 00:43:34 Forever? Elsie's a glutton for punishment, I tell you. Seriously. So, and so people think that it's Elsie when they see an apparition going through the kitchen and dining room for good reasons. However, remember, this is also like essentially an antique display now where a bunch of people could be connected to things in that house. Especially like the tragedies and the shipwreck, I mean.

Starting point is 00:43:56 Mm-hmm. Yeah. Throughout the building, people also, or especially in the jail cells, I'll say, people feel really uneasy in the cells, although I would argue anyone would because you're in a fucking jail cell. People hear voices on EVPs, but also just as clear as day, horrifying. And it seems that some of the mannequins are haunted, which I'm going to get to in a second, but I want to finish this first.

Starting point is 00:44:22 Throughout the building, people also hear, R.C. Streaks of light. Batteries die and equipment. People have been grabbed in the cells by cold hands. People have felt faint and dizzy. And now I'm going to tell you about this mannequin. I just wanted to get through the other stuff first. So one mannequin in particular is in the sheriff's bedroom.

Starting point is 00:44:45 And when people are near it, it's child-sized, by the way. Oh, my goodness. God. People hear footsteps running around it like a child's running around it. That's what I was afraid of because I remember you saying footsteps and I was like, tell me it's not connected to this fucking mannequin. Oh my God. Or the clothes it's wearing or something. Oh. But people hear childlike footsteps running around this child size mannequin and when they've looked at the mannequin and then gone downstairs or something and came back, the mannequin is wearing different fucking

Starting point is 00:45:15 clothes. No, this is like Robert the doll. I don't like it. That's an animal. shit. Robert did it. Robert did it. Literally, I cannot actually imagine being alone for it. And you know what? Sue me. I'm volunteering for the community as a member of the historical society and all of a sudden the mannequins are changing their own clothes upstairs. Is this some sort of reality show?

Starting point is 00:45:38 Like punked? Like, get me out of here. Just like that, I'm no longer on the historical society. I gave zero shits all of a sudden about the history of this beautiful town. It's that simple. one investigator actually found the mannequin inside she was like she was like oh i wonder where the mannequin is i wonder if it's been moved we don't know how or what happened and it could have been as simple as another staff member did this but she's like where's that mannequin and um she's actually sorry she's not a a staff member she is one of the

Starting point is 00:46:09 paranormal investigators that has been there a few times she was like where's that mannequin and she found it locked in a closet with a chair underneath the doorknob as if someone tried to lock it in? No. No. And I don't know what's worse if there's like a ghost that locked its own mannequin in the closet or a person saw something so scary it locked it in there. And didn't even bother like sticking around to explain it. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:46:30 She literally was like, oh my God. Oh, God. Like it's just eerie alone just to be like, why did someone have to lock this in? What were you so scared of? You better believe I see a chair under a doorknob. I'm not finding out if the mannequin's behind. find it. There's no, I don't care. I'm not finding out. Somebody else fucking find out. I never need to know. If I saw a chair with a door by the chair underneath the door and I'd go, you know,

Starting point is 00:46:53 on it at house. Probably made a good point. Yep. Yep. Got it. You're probably on to something. Yep. God, you're on to something. I trust you. I trust your judgment. Um, so the same investigator. Her name is Kathy, by the way. We love her. She, by the way, if Kathy, Kathy, Konder is her name. If you hear this, thank you for, um, talking about this place because the article that, interviewed you was the one I got the most information out of everything else was a not so good Kathy thank you Kathy really hooked me up with some good stories here so one thing Kathy did another time she was investigating she found an old sailors navy cap on the floor and she learned later that it was

Starting point is 00:47:31 sheriff ronkles and she like found in the middle of the floor in the room by itself okay she's clearly got some she's getting at like some connections to this house you know what I mean like a lot is happening. Well, the even creepier part is like, okay, so she found his hat and she was like, well, okay, he was a sheriff here. Okay, that makes sense that his hat would be here. But around the same time, this is a quote, staff found the same sheriff, Sheriff's

Starting point is 00:47:59 portrait had fallen off a wall with a glass smashed. Like, what does he want? Yeah, he's clearly trying to say something, and I don't actually know if I'm interested in hearing it. That's right. It's like, thanks, but no thanks, I think. Like, oh, your portrait just threw itself off the wall. the glass shattered and now your hat is just sitting in the middle of a room for someone to walk up to.

Starting point is 00:48:18 Again, it's like, you probably had a point. I trust your judgment. I'm going to leave it at that and walk away, you know. I would just go, you're right. Whatever you need to do. You are right. Whatever you're talking about, you're right. People also apparently experience activity at all hours.

Starting point is 00:48:33 It does not matter if you're in the jail cells or if it's dark out or if the lights are off. Kathy literally said the sun really doesn't keep paranormal activity quiet. You're never saying. I think in the article she also said something about how like she's never been there. And these are, I'm getting all these stories from her. But in the interview, I think she said she'd never actually been there when it was dark. So this is all happening during the fucking day. Okay.

Starting point is 00:48:57 Well, then maybe I would open the closet with the chair underneath it. I think I would. I know. I think if the sun were out, I would do it. I'd slip you at 10 and say, have fun. And tell me what you see. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That would be a circumstance for sure.

Starting point is 00:49:10 She did say, she also said that she'd been in the, or maybe she'd been in the house. when it was darker, but she'd never been in the jail cells at night or something, but she was like, I don't need to. I've seen enough. I know it's gone on there. Yeah, it's enough in the daytime. The most common ghost here, though, is a little girl that is seen and heard throughout the front and the back museum.

Starting point is 00:49:29 Maybe she locked the little boy mannequin in the closet. Well, you know, it's crazy. I don't, because I associate her with the sound of a little kid running around that mannequin and, like, maybe playing dress up with the mannequin, and that's by the clothes are changing. And if it's a little kid mannequin, maybe she's like. like playing with the kid like playing with what looks like a kid yeah she's like pretending like she's or playing a dress up for her or something that i think makes more sense than the mannequin having a whatever anyway go on it's certainly scarier when i'm like oh this mannequin changes itself

Starting point is 00:50:00 absolutely but if there's if the most common ghost is a little girl and you're stuck in that house that makes total sense that she's like playing dress up or changing it or running around and then she knows like it'll get attention people will be like what is that. Sorry, I just swallowed my own spit. That was crazy. Cute. In case anyone heard it, that was what was going on.

Starting point is 00:50:22 I heard it. Okay. I think that that's probably most likely what's happening, that like she's just entertaining herself for eternity since she can't leave. That theory makes sense to me. I wonder, though, well, we're about to find out. I don't have to wonder. I literally did these fucking notes.

Starting point is 00:50:37 Okay. She is known to follow people around. One of the other members of the historical society has name is Scott and he has said that she's nine years old and she's quote very mischievous running around and pulling on clothing oh which makes me feel like i mean she's yanking on people's shirts but if she's mischievous running around pulling on clothing people hear footsteps running the clothing changing on the mannequin and she's very mischievous that'd be something that a mischievous it's literally all the three things yep he like just described her yep um Scott goes on and i wish he

Starting point is 00:51:11 hadn't because I guess they were asking like oh how do you think this little girl came to be here like was she a sheriff's daughter what happened right scott says and this is a quote because i wasn't going to rewrite this well an old bible was donated to the museum and unbeknownst to the donator we found an envelope pressed inside of the bible and inside the envelope was a flower and a lock of hair and it's believed the hair belonged to the little girl because written on the outside of the envelope was dear little so-and-so a flower from her and it's believed the hair belonged to the little girl because written on the outside of the envelope was dear little so-and-so a flower from her grave. What? The F? So they think that it's her. That's how she's got here. It does it say dear little so-and-so? So-and-so is, I think,

Starting point is 00:51:54 the redacted name of the girl. Understood. Okay, okay, okay. Although he went on later to say that people who have investigated have, because he knows the name, he just hasn't said it publicly, but investigators have come to him

Starting point is 00:52:07 and accurately guessed her name later after investigating. So it sounds like she is, is chatty and willing to share her name. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Okay. I do like that they have that little litmus test on like, how good is this investigation crew? Like, I'm not going to tell you the name. You tell me what it is. Is the intel correct? Yeah. Oh. But so they think that's how she got here, which I love that she showed up in the building and she was

Starting point is 00:52:30 like, what can I do to kill time? And she found that mannequin and went, great, I'm a seamstress. I'm a fashionista. Step aside. Move out of my goddamn way. so she they were like trying to figure out okay well what's a little who's a little girl that died in the area because we only have her hair we don't know how she died though and i guess there's records on a few years before the jail opened actually there was there's a lake nearby and a little girl drowned so they're guessing that it's that girl but we really don't have evidence of that um and she's also been caught on camera people have seen her near one of the antiques they have is a doll collection so she's

Starting point is 00:53:08 She's like hanging out with the doll. She's playing dress up. She's having a goddamn blast actually. Yeah, she's clearly having a fun time. People also hear her on EVP. They always hear a little girl voice. And people have even heard her in real time saying things like behind you right here and I'm sick. Oh, honey.

Starting point is 00:53:28 Although staff have tried to keep her name private investigators have been able to guess it when she quote told them. And one thing I do appreciate about the historical society besides keeping her name private is that, they do not hide away from the fact that this place has ghosts. They actually have said that they think around seven spirits are always there. Whoa. And they have allowed paranormal events to be hosted there.

Starting point is 00:53:53 They always make sure to say goodbye on their way out for the night because they don't want anything following them home. So they're big believers. Love that. And that is the Allegan County Sheriff's House and old jail museum. Wow. I like that. That's one of the ones I would investigate because there's no like portal that's going to make me feel depressed for the rest of my life or whatever some of these other places have.

Starting point is 00:54:17 Like it feels like they're just human spirits. Yeah, they're just hanging. Like kind of causing some mischief. And you know what's interesting is it sounds like the, if there are spirits of inmates, they stay in the jail cell area. I wonder if they do still think they're locked in there. Because nothing up front has sounded scary at all. But then again, the inmates weren't necessarily violent or anything. They were, like, living together out of wedlock. So maybe they're also up front.

Starting point is 00:54:48 We just don't know who's who. Maybe. And maybe there's just, like, the general energy of some of those people kind of lingering, manifesting, not like real people stuck there. Let's hope. Let's hope. Let's hope. Nice.

Starting point is 00:55:05 Okay. Awesome. Well, I'm going to pee as usual. I actually have something today. I found, for Yopi Hour, I found, I was doing some research on my house and I found a very funny like newspaper clipping of somebody who lived in my house. And I was like, this is insane. This person, if they're here, like still in the home and I found a clipping about their

Starting point is 00:55:24 wife also in the newspaper. Oh, shut up. I'm so excited. Okay. So I'm going to read that when we get back for YAPR. Okay. Okay. Well, this is finally the time I get to show off because I, I didn't even watch my hair today,

Starting point is 00:55:37 but look at it. It's looking good. I'm sensing the difference. I love me some Nutifold. Oh, maybe it's Maybe it's Maybelene. Maybe it's Miss Christine. Okay. And the reason it's even impressive is because I have very, very, very thin, fine hair naturally. So like, to me, this is very voluminous. But, you know, it's nothing to write home about for me. It's a big deal. So thank you to Nutrafol for being such a long-term sponsor. I just love you guys. Nutraful is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand. and it's the number one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologists and Christine. Nutrafol's hair growth supplements are peer-reviewed NSF certified for sport and clinically tested.

Starting point is 00:56:17 I have recently also joined the Nutrafol train. Yay! And so far so good, but I can't wait for my several months in results. Oh, yours are going to be crazy. I have recently also been going through a bit of a hair loss situation. It is horrific because I did not see that coming for me. But Nutraful is helping me out, so I appreciate you. Let your hair be one less thing to worry about.

Starting point is 00:56:40 See visibly thicker, stronger, faster-going hair in three to six months with Nutraful. For a limited time, Nutraful is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you visit Nutraful.com and enter promo code drink. That's Nutifle.com, spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L-O-Code drink. So Allison is thinking about joining the, like, art fair market with all of her jewelry. Jewelry. Oh, my God. And so she made this little table and she put a sheet on top of it. And I was like, where did you get that sheet? And she said, oh, in the slender closet. And I went, it has to be a different sheet. You have to use a different one because that's my miracle made sheet. You cannot use that for your table in your booth. I need that to sleep. I need that to sleep. Listen, they're inspired by NASA technology. You want her to go to the craft fair without NASA inspired technology sheets. Like, don't be ridiculous. I need them to be clean so I can rest my head on them because here's a thing. They are temperature regulating. Okay. That's true. Yeah, that's true. She doesn't need.

Starting point is 00:57:35 that on a table. That's true. All of a sudden, I'm not sweating. Use the other ones. Use the other sheets. Please. Yeah. No, you're right. Come on, Christine. They're anti-bacterial. Come on. Come on. They're smooth, breathable, ridiculously comfortable. And that table does not need to be comfy. That table is okay without it. And also, like, that table is not a five-star hotel. Like, what is she trying to prove? You know what I'm saying? Thank you. Thank you. No, the table does not deserve it. I deserve it. You deserve it. Upgrade your sleep or give the gift of better rest. Go to try miracle.com slash drink to try Miracle made sheets today. What color did you get? Because I got the green one and it's so pretty. I got the Navy because I just can't resist. I want it to, but I can't.

Starting point is 00:58:13 You'll save over 40%. When you use promo code drink, you'll get an extra 20% off plus a free three-piece towel set. They make an amazing gift, Allison. And with a 30-day money back guarantee, there's no risk. That's try miracle.com slash drink code drink at checkout. Thanks to Miracle Made for sponsoring this episode. Okay, we're back. I'm in a weird mood now. So that's good for everybody. I just got really mad at newspapers.com of all things. Like maybe, you know what? Maybe the clipping was from like ancestry or something, you know? Like maybe I'm looking at the wrong.

Starting point is 00:58:47 Do they do new? They don't do newspapers. They're linked. They're owned by the same people, I think, because if you sign into one, you sign to the other. I have like the same account. So maybe I like saved it there. Whatever.

Starting point is 00:58:57 I'll find it. Now I'm just, I'm just irritated, okay? Oh, man. Christine needs to take a breath. Take a breath. It's a Uranus and in Gemini thing, okay? Yeah, sure. Now, here we go.

Starting point is 00:59:11 So I had my, and when I say my, I mean our lovely second book out on a coffee table in my house because I had been looking through it. And my daughter walks up and says, Mommy, that's way too scary. I don't want that in our house. And I was like. Right. I was like, hey, Mommy wrote that. And she said, I don't care. And she didn't want it around. So I brought it upstairs to my office, which is where I'm allowed to keep my belongings. The rest of the house doesn't really belong to me. Like, aesthetically. That's exactly. And Mommy gets a room in the turret. Yeah, yeah, yeah, up here where the AC doesn't work. So that's for me. And while all that was happening, I was flipping through the book, trying to prove to her, It wasn't quite as scary, although it didn't work because there's like murderers and knives and ghosts and stuff in it. So, yeah, you're right.

Starting point is 01:00:10 It is a little scary. But I remembered that we had written about South Dakota. And my brother just had a friend in town who had been talking a lot about South Dakota, has family there. And I was saying like, oh, I've always wanted to go. I don't know much about it. But then I said, oh, but I have written a chapter about South Dakota in my book. You know, so this is where I love that. like so you've never been and felt like you could write a story or write anything about it.

Starting point is 01:00:37 Exactly right. And I said, do you want, it's on my coffee table over there. It's super scary if you want to look at it. Yeah. So I was just bragging about it. And for that reason, I thought, why not cover it today? I was at a loss for what to cover. And Leona convinced me that our book is super scary. So I thought, let's do it. This is a story out of Sioux Falls, South Dakota. And do you remember what you covered, by the way? I went and looked. Not even for a second. You covered the story of Mount Marty University in Yankton, South Dakota. Sure. I bet I had a great time doing it, too.

Starting point is 01:01:16 That silence speaks volumes. Okay. Well, before you get into your story, can I tell you a fun thing about our book? Please. Allison texted me the other day and said that the cashier at Grocery Outlet knew our book, but did not know our podcast. So it was the first time we'd been recognized as authors before podcasting. And neither of us were in there. Gasp. Okay. Did I, I told you right about the time that I was at the bookstore and somebody picked the book up out of the shelf and like talk to her friend. And I was like,

Starting point is 01:01:45 this is proof I'm in a simulation of some kind. Like, this is a test, you know, like, I don't know what's happening. And Leona literally goes, that lady's reading your book. And I'm like, trust me, I've clocked it. And then they turn to the back and go, oh, it's a podcast. And I'm like, Oh my God, this could go so bad. This could like shatter me for eternity. Whatever's. I have a similar story that I don't think I've shared. I've already told mine.

Starting point is 01:02:08 Well, it feels, it will feel braggy. So we're just going to have to leave into that. Let's just get it out there. We were New York Times bestsellers. Let's just say that. Yeah. It's not a brag. It's a fact.

Starting point is 01:02:20 A fact. And it is a brag. I mean, what a nice little flex. And while we're fact telling, we were also USA Today bestsellers. Sure, we're good, good for you. Good for you. So I was in a bookstore one time and they had a typewriter out. And so I was like messing around with the typewriter.

Starting point is 01:02:41 And some, the guy came over and he was like, oh, oh, you're working on a book there. And I went, I don't know what it'll turn out to be like just kind of making small talk. I was like, I don't know. I'm just kind of pressing buttons. And he went, well, maybe one day you'll be a bestseller. And I did not say I am because I would be so juicy. But that would be so good. But I was like, I want to say it so bad just because like when would I ever get that moment again?

Starting point is 01:03:03 But I'm not going to say it. So I didn't say it. The literal next week I went to a bookstore. And somebody said, oh my God, I want to try to remember the exact words. Oh, it was. I'm not going to butcher it. But basically I ended up seeing our book in Barnes & Noble. And I went to go buy a copy of it because I buy it for people.

Starting point is 01:03:27 To be fair, my aunt said she wanted a copy. so I was buying a copy. And I tried to make a joke where I was like, oh, the person on the book, like, I was saying it to Allison. I was like, the person on the book looks pretty similar to me. And the person who was checking us out said like, oh, yeah, that looks like it could be you. And like, oh, you could be a best seller one day. Or said somebody like, oh, well, they're best sellers. I wanted to be like, it is me.

Starting point is 01:03:49 But I didn't say it. Anyway, it really threw me. But in that moment, I was like, I feel, what are the odds that twice in two weeks, someone would imply like, oh, one day you could be. them and I'm like, I am. I think the universe is asking you to own it. I owned it to myself and I pat myself on the back. That's good.

Starting point is 01:04:06 That'd be so mean. It would be so. I don't think so. I don't think so. I think if a stranger said to you, if I said to somebody, yeah, maybe you'll be like America's next top model and they were like, oh my God, this is so weird, but I was America's next top model once. I'd be like, holy shit, that's crazy.

Starting point is 01:04:22 You know, like it would never be like, why would you say that? That's so fucking. Sure. I think I'm just paranoid about how it would come across. Like in good company, obviously you know what I mean. It's like imposter syndrome and you don't want to be like that guy. And like honestly, you don't necessarily want to just start a conversation like that with somebody. You don't know.

Starting point is 01:04:38 Like maybe you don't even want to. If it were amongst friends and I'm allowed to like make the joke and look kind of like, oh, ho, ho. And everyone knows that I. Blaze would have been like, well, look closer. You know, if my mom were next to us when it happened, she would have made me sign it. And then she would sign it. And then hand it to the cashier.

Starting point is 01:04:56 She would sign it first. let's be real she she has signed more of our books than i think we have um don't doubt that she came to one of our shows and while she was waiting for us in the green room she signed people's books and i was like you didn't even write that like who gave you the what that name doesn't even exist on the book no i don't know i don't know i didn't it feels like i'm we can we can end this now because i feel like i'm i don't know i have imposter syndrome but it was it was i was just going off of you, they're like, where are the odds two times in a row? Somebody said something where I could have leaned into it. And I was like, no, I need to be better than that. But I felt it in my chest.

Starting point is 01:05:34 I was like, good for you, though. You know, you know you were a bestseller. You can walk away owning that. I think you can say, I think next, I think third time, maybe experiment. Okay. I think third time, if it happens again, maybe the universe is saying, just try saying, oh, actually, this is so awkward, but like, actually I, I don't know. Try it. If it happens a third time, with your permission, I will give it a shot. Yay. Okay. We'll see.

Starting point is 01:06:02 But anyway, since we don't say it enough, very proud of you that we're both. I'm proud of you, too. I mean, really, it's, if you ever need someone to hype you up on that, just text me because it's as shocking to me as it is to you. And I'm the only other person who understands what you're feeling in the exact way. So, you know, it is a very surreal and humbling, but also like ego boost. but also like surreal and like kind of. It's always disbelief.

Starting point is 01:06:32 Yeah. Like it feels just doesn't. It's hard to reconcile like with the rest of life. I don't know. Anyway, sorry. Shameless plug to our book, I guess. Damn. Yeah, both of them.

Starting point is 01:06:42 I mean, I started it by saying I keep the book out on my coffee table. Like, I mean, to be fair, there's like 75 books on my coffee table because I'm constantly just moving piles of junk around trying to organize my house. So it's not. like there by itself. But I do have access to it. So when someone says, oh, I'm from South Dakota,

Starting point is 01:07:02 I'm like, well, I wrote a best selling book about South Dakota. You at least always have a conversation starter. I'm like, South Dakota, South Dakota. What did I say? Oh, yeah. And then I go to Google Docs, my chapters. And then I do Control. Command F. And then that is what I did. But I had to get the book out to actually see your funny quips. So I have those as well, because I'm going to tell You know, I was surprised. I know I said this every time, but I was surprised I hadn't talked about this because it feels like I have. And also, it's just one of the oldest kind of crime stories I've ever covered. So let's get into it. This is the story of Harry Lacey. It takes place, like I said, in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. And it takes place only four years into South Dakota's statehood. So that's pretty crazy. It was 1893, which was 133. three years ago. And Sue Falls was kind of like a booming city at this point, right? Like people, I mean, you have covered these towns where people are just like kind of rushing their way over and populating these. Alexa play all too well. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Wow. That felt, is that a real meme?

Starting point is 01:08:18 Because that was like, no. You just invented that? I'm just like super funny. That was like an extremely good meme. I'm also a bestseller. I don't know if I've told you that. You should. See? That didn't count as your third one though. Damn it. Okay.

Starting point is 01:08:31 I know. Has to be a stranger. Okay. So, right, we're four years into South Dakota statehood. It's a little toddler, just like Leona. A baby. A baby. And we're talking 1893.

Starting point is 01:08:44 It's nearing October, I'm assuming. It's just a beautiful night. When seven-year-old Sumner Lacey walks into his neighbor's house. they kind of look at him and say, hey, son, what's up? What's wrong? What are you doing here? Without any hesitation, all he says is they're all dead, sir. Oh, my God. What the fuck? I know. I know. Now, this is, I, this is probably like one of the earliest recorded, I almost said family annihilator, but it's not quite family annihilator. It's more just like a domestic violence.

Starting point is 01:09:24 Okay. I mean, it's, it honestly, it reminds me, which is weirdly tragic as well, of the Constantinos, like similar kind of vibes, but, you know, hundreds of years ago. So it's, it's a weird little, like, juxtaposition. And you did say, um, it would, that we were only four years in the South Dakota existing. Do we know for sure if this was like the first, like, serious crime to come out of South Dakota or like first big murder? You know, I looked into it and there, because it was kind of a Wild West area, sure.

Starting point is 01:09:57 There was so much, quote unquote, it wasn't, I don't even know that it was crime, right? Because like, Wild West, lawless land. Violent mischief. But violent mischief, murderous mischief. So I imagine there was a lot of death and. Okay. I mean, you know, people taking land already is going to be caused for plenty of conflict. So, but I don't know.

Starting point is 01:10:22 I don't know. This could, I don't think I was able to confirm that it was like the first, you know, in the state. But it was definitely one of the top. And the weird part is like there's barely any information about this out there. And I actually, the frustrating part was that like the really well written article that I found from that time period was basically the only like super thorough. telling of what happened. And I had wished, like, in the chapter I could have somehow. Anyway, my point is, I'm going to tell you my own notes, but then I'm also going to read you the article because it's just written in a way where I'm like, you can't translate that into modern verbiage. It's just like so fascinating to hear. This is what I love about retelling it as an episode because now we get like even more behind the scenes. Because we were trying to hit a word count then. I know. It's frustrating. What you'll be. never believe this, but we have a tendency to yap. And so when someone gives us a word limit,

Starting point is 01:11:28 yeah, suddenly it's real hard. And it's like, we've spent our lives making the periods in our essays bigger to like fill space. And now all of a sudden, it's like we can't shut up. I feel like in one of the meetings we had when writing the book, we were told like, oh, you actually have to like have all of your stories. Didn't we have something like that? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. They were like, yeah, the other page needs to be used for like graphics. Yeah, they were like, Otherwise, it's going to be a 600-page book. I was like, oh. Yeah, that's not happening.

Starting point is 01:11:57 So anyway, here we go. So this little boy walks into his neighbor's house, says they're all dead, sir. And just like a horror movie, the man says, well, let me come with you, son. I'll take you home. And we'll see what's going on. Brave. Yeah. Unfortunately, the man that lived next door where this little boy also lived, was his father.

Starting point is 01:12:21 and his father, Harry Lacey, was dead on the ground with a gunshot wound to the head. So the neighbor, I just like picture it because the guy is holding this little kid's hand. I don't know. Something about it just really disturbs me. I can't imagine what it is, you know. Yeah, right. Like shooting himself. Could be anything.

Starting point is 01:12:48 Could be anything. Nobody knows. Here's what they found out very quickly. specifically, Sumner's father, Harry Lacey, had, they called it basically snapping, but I don't really think that's quite how that works, especially when it's like a domestic violence thing. He had pulled out a 38 caliber revolver and shot his wife in cold blood, his wife, Clara, and then his mother-in-law, Lydia Bunker, before calmly turning the gun on himself. and his son, Sumner, had stood there and witnessed the whole thing.

Starting point is 01:13:25 So at the time, Sue Falls was seeing this influx of families trying to make a new name for themselves, a new home for themselves in the newly minted state. Harry Lacey was no different. He and his wife, Clara Bunker, who became Clara Lacey, had moved from Iowa to Sue Falls with dreams of creating a successful business. And unfortunately, the move was not as profitable as they'd hoped. And he really struggled financially. And being the kind of man who felt very, I mean, it's basically like same old story, right?

Starting point is 01:14:02 Like people don't necessarily change that much. He was insecure about certain aspects of his life, like his finances. And his lack of business success. and he took it out on his own family. Isn't that funny? Remember how earlier I was telling you, this was during Yappy Hour, that it's wild how things just never fucking change,

Starting point is 01:14:26 like across generations. Like, how is that 500 years ago? I'm saying 500, that the country was not 500 years old. Hundreds of years ago that that could happen then still happens now. Unfortunately, we'll still happen in the future. That's, I mean, it's true.

Starting point is 01:14:40 It's like history repeats itself. But just like someone could be, that insecure that you it's not just like hurt people hurt people it's like oh insecure people murder people how how yeah yeah yeah it's like a lot more layered so here's what happened um that we now know a few years before the murders harry's mother-in-law uh now this is also the issue is that like he clearly also has a complex um i wish i could say it was a product of the times but we see it running rampant today too. He had an inferiority complex because he had borrowed money from his mother-in-law. And imagine like owing money to your wife and her mother when you were already-

Starting point is 01:15:22 So women? Yeah, exactly. Like a hateful person and a misogynist. So they were really struggling. His mother-in-law had actually sold a portion of her homestead and was pretty wealthy. And she had netted $40,000 for it, which today is about $1.3 million. And a woman, like at the time netting that kind of money in the 1800s, you know, you think like, holy smokes. I don't even know how that was possible, but so proud of her. Very impressive. She sold her property. She netted what today is $1.3 million. And she entrusted almost half of it to Harry, her son-in-law and his brother. who promised that they would invest it and carefully grow her funds. Wow. You're not even have to finish a story at this point. I know.

Starting point is 01:16:19 I know. That's why it's almost like, why do I even? But like the fact that this happened in 18, the fact that the state was brand new and they're like, cool, here comes a man murdering his wife and his mother. Like it just had no time to wait. Like South Dakota was a fetus at this point. And it's like this was the seal of approval, you know, like here. Now it's officially the US of A, a part of the US of A. So she gave half of this money.

Starting point is 01:16:50 She entrusted it to her son-in-law, Harry, and his brother, with the hopes that they would invest it, take care of it, have good financial sense because they're men after all, right? And so they can take care of it for her. She started to get suspicious, rightfully so. And when she asked for the money back, he was like maybe later. And the more and more she pressured him, the more and more she realized, oh, no, I think he's done something with my money. Her name was Lydia Bunker, by the way. And she was very adamant that she wanted the money to be returned ASAP, no more, what do you call it, beating around the bush. And he kept saying things like, oh, I'll offer you instead I'll offer you like this prompt.

Starting point is 01:17:42 Like I'll offer you what's the word? When you give someone like a watch and say like I promise I'll pay you. Oh collateral? Yes. Yes. He was trying. Thank you. He was trying to like give her other securities.

Starting point is 01:17:56 So like, oh, I'll, you can have the deed to the house or something, you know. And she's like, no, I want my money back because she knows now something. is very wrong. Yeah. So, as you can imagine, the pressure is increasing. The tension in the house is escalating. His wife, who I imagine is nagging him left and right about losing her mother's half a million dollars, basically.

Starting point is 01:18:21 Females, am I right? She is getting more and more insistent that he repay her. And this all came to a head in December of 1891 when a he, argument during breakfast escalated into violence. Clara, the wife, made what would be, unfortunately, kind of a fatal mistake in siding with her mother. She insisted that he repay her mother the money he owed and enraged. Harry threatened his wife with a revolver and he was arrested and fined $50. So the end and he went home. That's unfortunately true for now.

Starting point is 01:19:09 That's chapter one. Slap on the wrist, you know. So for much of the following year, Harry lived like in and out of the house. So he would be with his family for a while and then he would be living on his own. But the entire time he was blaming Lydia for making his life and I quote, hell on earth. Okay. I don't really believe him. and well, let's find out.

Starting point is 01:19:35 Over time, the couple reconciled and they moved. How could this not go wrong? They moved in with the mother-in-law. So she sold part of the property so they could have money and then he ended up not paying her and is now living in the smaller property with them. And there's no resentment at all. Right. Totally, right. And at breakfast, they're having, like, arguments, you know, like, this is just a disaster.

Starting point is 01:20:01 And I wonder how much the mom knew because like imagine all of that animosity you already have towards him, but also he's now moving in after like threatening your daughter with a gun. Yeah. Oh yeah. And you're like how could you possibly feel safe to start an argument living under this roof. Right. Exactly. Yeah. So they moved in together virtually. It was it was like a pair of homes, but they were basically connected. the family had what was called a truce. And it's like that's a red flag in and of itself if you have to call it a truce, you know. And it's not even I would imagine a truce is just like, well, we're just not talking about it. Yeah, we're almost just like trying to move past it. Exactly.

Starting point is 01:20:47 Well, that truce, whatever it was, lasted all of one week before completely shattering and ending up worse than imaginable. So in the days leading up to the tragedy, Harry Lacey, did that classic thing where he walked around, and I just find this so gross, he walked around settling bills, okay? And like, it's one thing when, you know, you hear about somebody who has suicidal ideation and they go around and they're trying to like tie up loose ends and like, of course, that's its own situation. But when you hear of these stories of people who are planning to murder their partner, their wife and they're walking, and themselves, and they're walking around, like, oh well I better pay the grocer his dues and it's like you're planning to kill the mother of your

Starting point is 01:21:34 children you're planning to kill somebody a woman like yeah it's also it's the eerie the hindsight 2020 but the eerie overtones of like he clearly had the plan early on he can't he can't feign that it was spontaneous totally you clearly this was step one of a plan 100% and it was um so he settled bills, he returned items he had borrowed. He made some unusual offers. Like he had a tab at a restaurant and he couldn't pay it. So he tried to give the restaurant owner his coat. And the restaurant owner was like, I don't want this. Like what world did he come from where bartering is like the or like just a general trade is enough? Like, why does he take my coat of the man. It's like, I literally don't want this. Can you just pay me later?

Starting point is 01:22:25 Like, stop being weird. Like, is that not so narcissistic to be like, or arrogant of like, oh, well, obviously he'll take this? Like, to keep doing it. It'd be one thing to think you can get away with it with like your mother-in-law and like she has to deal with you. Like just strangers. It's like, oh, you want my coat. Don't worry. You want this. Yeah, don't worry. This will pay my bills. Like, it was on my shoulders. Like, fuck you.

Starting point is 01:22:46 He's clearly not of this world. No. And when he tried to give his coat, the restaurant owner was like, you're going to need this. And he goes, no, I won't. Hello. Hello. And when the guy said, I know, like, gross. And when the guy kind of like looked at him, he was like, oh, I mean, this is my hiking coat.

Starting point is 01:23:12 So I just won't be needing it. Also, again, narcissistic, I think you can say something like that. And like, someone's not going to remember how fucking weird you were being. But I guess it didn't matter because if he planned on ending his. own life at the end of it. It's not like it's ever going to affect it. Doesn't care. So on that Sunday evening, it's just so creepy. He read the newspaper for a while. Then he walked over to his mother-in-law's house and kicked in the back door. Lydia passed through the room and before she could even realize what was happening, he shot her and she died instantly. Clara, his wife,

Starting point is 01:23:51 witnessed the attack, tried to grab the weapon, but he wrenched it free and shot her in the head. The entire ordeal was witnessed by their seven-year-old Sumner and his three-and-a-half-year-old sister Lydia, which also was so heartbreaking. No, Lydia was the mother-in-law's name. And then Lydia was the little girl's name too. So they had even named the daughter after the mother-in-law. So like, just the layers of like Freudian bullshit going on here is crazy town. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:24:21 And then like to be that toddler and that little boy and have to watch your namesake and like your mother and your mother, your grandmother like die and such, I mean, it's just horrific. Of course. But so it just adds another layer to it that she was like named after the grandma. So according to the children's retelling, because of course now they're like the only witnesses and have to fucking tell everybody what happened. apparently Harry stared at his wife's body for a moment, then walked calmly outside, sat down on a wheelbarrow, and shot himself in the head.

Starting point is 01:25:00 The calmness is like... It's fucking eerie, dude. I don't know why I would prefer him to act like a madman, but, like, I mean, I guess because then I could justify it better in my mind of like, oh, well, he's lost his marbles. Yeah, totally, totally. The eerie is just like a full... conscious decision.

Starting point is 01:25:21 Mm-hmm. And being calm with it, like the stillness of like not free. Because you would think after you do that, then you should lose your marbles and be like, I can't believe I fucking did that. But he is just like so at peace with what he's done. And then to kill himself with that like same like, just like, well, I'll take a seat right here. And like having read the newspaper a few hours ago, not even a few hours, an hour ago, it's just like, what the fuck?

Starting point is 01:25:47 Yeah. It's the creepiness of like, I could see anyone outside or at a coffee shop reading a paper right now. And it's like, for all we know, he's planning in an hour to kill his whole family. Yeah. It's very unsettling. Why did he not shoot Sumner or the kids, I guess? I don't think he had it out for the kids. I think it was just he was so done with the women in his life.

Starting point is 01:26:12 And I think probably, I mean, a lot of times I think people who are this way, act like the kids aren't part of the situation when obviously they are if it's a domestic violence thing, they're victims as well. But like I think in this scenario, a lot of times people like this will just be like, oh, the kids are their own thing. I love my kids. And it's like, well, not really because you wouldn't be doing something like this. Right. And also if your mentality was like, well, I have to kill my wife and her mother because I don't want the judgment anymore. Do you not think you're now living children aren't going to judge you for the rest of your life. They don't love you.

Starting point is 01:26:49 They don't love their children that way. They just love them enough to be like, oh, I won't kill them. You know, they can keep living. It's also the gross. This is like such a side conversation. But like it's the added misogyny of like the kids being only an extension of your life. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:27:05 Totally. No, and that's exactly how I see it. Yeah. Exactly. They're me. So. Yeah. They're mine, you know, and they can stay.

Starting point is 01:27:14 Yeah. That's just gross. And she's mine and she cannot. I bought these blue light glasses from Zeni that are heart shaped. Oh, stay in piece. But they're blue light lenses and they're clear. And then when you go outside, they turn pink. Oh, that's a good time.

Starting point is 01:27:31 I mean, what? First of all, okay, bisexual. Okay. I got to say, Zeni, you're nailing it. You're nailing. Wow. What a way to have like transition lenses and like it looks cool. That's the vibe I'm going for.

Starting point is 01:27:43 Oh my gosh. No, we are very lucky to be working. is Zennie. Zennie is an online eyewear shop from prescription glasses, sunglasses, blue light lenses, heart-shaped glasses, that transition from blue to pink, apparently, all starting at under $30. So you go to Zennie.com, you pick a frame, upload your prescription, and they ship it to your door. So you don't even have to do that going to the mall with your mom and putting on 20 pairs you don't like and then settling.

Starting point is 01:28:06 I just got to tell you, Zeni Optical, it's a way to go. If you're ever looking for glasses of any sort, really. I did get that laser eye surgery, but, you know, I still need those blue light and those transitions, lenses, and it's just a great place to go. Yeah, if your glasses are overdue for a refresh, now is the time. Go to zeni.com slash podcast and use code Podcast 15 for 15% off your first order. And the styles sell out. I'm pretty sure you single-handedly just got rid of all of the heart-shaped glasses.

Starting point is 01:28:32 So don't sit on it. Don't sit on it. That's z-en-i.com slash podcast promo code, podcast 15. Also, don't sit on your glasses. So here is the newspaper article because I just, I pulled it up yesterday and thought, I got to read this because it's as good as I remembered. Okay. Harry G.

Starting point is 01:28:53 Okay. So remember how back in the day they had like six headlines? Of course. So it's like headline, then slightly smaller headline, then slightly smaller headline. Yeah. Yeah. The sub sub title. Correct.

Starting point is 01:29:03 So it says, Harry G. Lacey shoots his mother-in-law and then his wife. He then leaves the house and sends a bullet into his own brain. It was not an act of temper, but was deliberately planned. The murderer settles up his bills. before his awful crime is done. Tragic ending of a domestic trouble, full details. Five.

Starting point is 01:29:22 That's the titles. So I like how the titles back then were just the, um, the AI version, like the AI Spark notes or whatever. Oh, 100% where it like over explains. Um, you know what? Yeah. That whole half is just titles. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:29:36 That's like layers of titles. I wonder, um, if that's just like, I wonder if newspapers weren't meant to be, if the articles weren't meant to be read unless you cared about the, specific details and the headlines were just supposed to tell you just this is the news if you want more go here yeah here are wonderful details like articles were less cared for it was like i want to know the headline if i give a shit here's some extra info yeah yeah yeah i feel like maybe that's what newspapers just fucking are in general even today but like in my mind it's like you're just describing a newspaper i know i'm just describing but it's like here these days i would imagine like

Starting point is 01:30:13 here's a hook to get you to want to read more oh yeah yeah yeah back then it was like, here's what you need to know. I'll give you the whole story in the headline. But if you want to hear the beat by beat, like, you got to keep reading. Yeah, that's so true. Because now you're right. It is like clickbait now. It's like, you'll never believe what happened.

Starting point is 01:30:31 First murder of South Dakota history, you know. Isn't that crazy that in 2026 where things should only advance, I'm like describing, I'm like judging the fact that a newspaper was doing its fucking job, like giving you as much information as possible everywhere? That's the theme of today. Like, we're just, like, sensing these weird patterns. I mean, I even started the episode with, like, every 84 years, like, something happens. And then you're like, oh, it's weird how, like, the watermelon ice cream socials.

Starting point is 01:30:56 And then now I'm like, oh, this reminds me that Constantinos. Everything is just kind of like a weird little shadow. And then I'm like, what's a newspaper? You're like, I can't believe they do the same thing now that they did all the way back then. Yeah, but they felt it felt more accurate and loved on. and like they were really reporting the news. No, no, I totally agree. I totally agree.

Starting point is 01:31:18 It wasn't necessarily like the AI slop. Five headlines is a dedicated journalist. Totally. And I'm going to actually read you the article now. So here we go. Harry G. Lacey, who has lived in Sioux Falls for years and who has known as a bright, competent, cool, desperate man. And I'm like, what a combo. Okay.

Starting point is 01:31:38 Yeah. Maybe desperate meant something else. I feel like they interviewed four neighbors and bright, competent, cool, and the ones were like, just plain desperate. Oh, I'm sorry. Are we not talking truth here? Yeah, like, sorry, I'm not going to like respect the dead or whatever. Okay, he was known as a bright, competent, cool, desperate man. At 530 Sunday evening, shot and instantly killed his mother-in-law, Mrs. Lydia Bunker and his wife, and then putting the muzzle of a 38 caliber revolver to his head, blew out his own brains. I mean, Jesus Christ, with the way they wrote things. It was not the act of

Starting point is 01:32:11 insanity, semi-colon. It was the deed of a desperate man who fancied that he had been wronged by others, and it was evidently planned quietly and coolly, probably for some days. Friday and Saturday, Mr. Lacey was on the streets settling up his bills. He owed a bill to Art de Good, the restaurant keeper, and turned over a clock in payment. Like, he's literally gave him a clock. First a coat, now a clock. Like, really.

Starting point is 01:32:38 Yeah. Saturday he came to the Argus Leader Office. That's this newspaper, by the way, which love that self-referential. Saturday, he came to the Argus Leader office and said, I owe you a small bill which I am anxious to settle. I have no money, but will turn over to you some books. The books were not taken. Okay.

Starting point is 01:33:01 But an arrangement was made under which Mr. Lacey, who was an irrigation expert, was to write several articles on the subject for the paper. So basically in exchange for... So that asshole said in exchange for my bill that I owe you, I'll write several articles for you about irrigation. By the way, fucking boring. Okay, nobody wants that. And also it sounds...

Starting point is 01:33:23 So literally all the way to the day of his death, he was conning people. He's conning people. Exactly. He's lying. I mean, he knows he's going to die. Yeah. So he was like, oh, yeah, I'll help you out. Just take this. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:33:36 Oh, God. Mr. Lacey talked freely of the articles and discussed the general theme of irrigation with much apparent interest. Yeah, I fucking bet he did, loser. You know, he talked about irrigation in a way where, like, you're trapped and he thinks he's blowing your fucking mind. Yeah, self-important prick. 100%. Later in the day, he went to the Knickerbocker restaurant and to settle a bill of $13 offered his heavy overcoat in payment. Roger Marson, the proprietor, refused to take the coat saying, you'll need it.

Starting point is 01:34:08 No, said Mr. Lacey, I won't want it any longer. And as if suddenly remembering himself said, it is a heavy coat and I only use it while riding. Okay. No one asked. Good one. Yeah, no one asked, exactly. It was finally arranged that Lacey should turn over a few books. What is this fucking Amelia Bidelia? Like, this is not how the, and it's like, why are you even settling up your bills? Yeah, I know. Like at this, like at this point, you're not helping anyone.

Starting point is 01:34:37 Like, you're not. It's, it's truly, again, the narcissism. And it's, it's, it's relieving him of something because he believes that he's, but like if you're, he's doing something he thinks is like an act of martyrdom. And it's like, you're not even paying the bill, dude. Yeah, you're not even, you're, you're helping no one. You're actually bothering everybody. You're inconvenying everyone. You're reminding them and rubbing it in their face that you're not going to pay them.

Starting point is 01:34:59 And, but for you, ah, like something is off. Totally. You're 100% right. I have nothing left to owe anybody. Martyrdom. Yeah. Oh my God. I never thought about it like that. That's so gross. Gross. Yeah, I'll write. I'll give you my expertise in exchange. And now I can sleep at night because I've done what I think is, is solved the problem. And my sleep at night, he's basically saying I get to go to heaven now. Because I've, yeah. Right. Like, ugh, get over it. But the murdering of two innocent people has nothing to do with it either, you know? I can't believe, yeah.

Starting point is 01:35:34 It goes to show what people think of women. It's wild that that's the last thing he ever didn't. Okay, time for a good afterlife where I'm owed a goodness. A bunch of men proprietors and said, oh, I owe you some expertise on irrigation. Don't let me forget. The massage meeting male approval before he dies, well, still actually not getting approval from anyone. Like, he's still just making men also hate him. You're right.

Starting point is 01:35:58 He's like trying to like square up with all these dudes. And it's like, they're not even like interesting. but he thinks it's some sort of big gesture. You killed the women in your life because you're afraid of them judging you. But then, but of course you wouldn't try to kill the men who are judging you because they're men, you have to respect them. But then you're also like not.

Starting point is 01:36:16 But they're not the ones who are causing the problem. And you're not clearing the air with any of the men that you're scared of judgment from. You're just going to go kill women because you're scared of their judgment. I think he is, I think he's so self-lawful. important and grandiose that he thinks like, oh, I better make one final, like, stop or goodbye or gift, a pardon gift to all these people. I guess so.

Starting point is 01:36:43 Without even, yeah. Like, I don't, like, I'll, I'll never get the, like, what, what was the goal? What was the goal besides just doing it for himself? Ego. Ego. It's sick. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:36:58 Ego. Like twisted his sickness. It's sick. Yeah. It's fucking sick. Uh, yeah, 100%. So the fact that he wandered around town thinking he was doing some sort of like charity work or whatever. Favor to them.

Starting point is 01:37:12 Yeah. So he said, no, it's only what I use while writing. It was finally arranged at Lacey should turn over a few books and these he delivered about noon yesterday. At three o'clock Sunday afternoon, he took the elevator and went up to the commercial club rooms. Lacey was apparently much confused and disturbed. He remained in the rooms but a few minutes. and when he came out had a small box under his arm. He must have gone from here direct to his house.

Starting point is 01:37:37 It is located just east of the motor track, which runs north and south from the powerhouse to the town. Just west of the track is the old bunker homestead. Lacey and his wife were living together after several separations, which Lacey thought had been brought about by the mother-in-law. Of course. Mrs. Bunker lived alone in the house west of the track. When Lacey came home, a neighbor was with Mrs. Lacey.

Starting point is 01:37:59 Lacey went into the house, sat down, and without saying a word, took up a newspaper. Mrs. Lacey arose abruptly and left the house. Her friend also left to go home. Lacey sat quietly for a moment and then left the house. He walked leisurely across the track and toward the bunker house. He was seen coming and the doors were locked. This is so scary. Like they locked the doors.

Starting point is 01:38:22 Like, unfortunately, great job writing it. It's a very well told. And to imagine that this was, by the way, the re- reason they even knew any of this was because the little kids told them. A seven-year-old was like, and then they locked the door. That's a great point that all the information was like told by the POV of the child. And I wonder if the journalist is actually writing to induce fear in the reader or if he's just describing exactly what the kid said. I think it really is. I mean, it's clearly a little. Descursy how he was. Fruity, but that's how they wrote back then, right? Like,

Starting point is 01:38:53 that's why I love it. But it says, he walked leisurely, he, he, was seen coming, I mean, this scares the shit out of me. He was seen coming and the doors were locked. The back door was a light one. Harry tried the door. It was locked. He kicked it in, breaking the lock. Mrs. Bunker started to pass from the dining room into the kitchen. Just as she reached the threshold, Harry fired at her. The ball struck her back of the right ear and she fell forward dying instantly. Mrs. Lacey, who saw the raised weapon and feared the worst, grabbed the revolver, but Harry wrenched it from her and shot the bullet striking in almost the same spot where Mrs. Bunker was hit. That was another weird thing that they noted in the autopsy reports

Starting point is 01:39:35 is that even though they were shot in different circumstances, it was almost identical where he shot both of them. Like he had a plan of exactly where to get them. No, no. It was just accidental. Like he just shot both them and it was just strangely like the exact same entry wound. I don't know. Yuri. I'm not trying to be so nitpicky on this, but it is interesting that if he didn't want to harm his kids, he still, like, didn't tuck them away in a different room before this happened. Because he's not, like, he's not harming them. He's just not, not harming them. Like, they're just not the targets.

Starting point is 01:40:10 They're just collateral damage. Right? You know what I mean? Yeah, I know. Harry went up to his wife, looked at her for a moment, coolly, and walked out of the house. This awful act was witnessed by Lacey's two children, one seven years and one three and a half. Lacey then walked out of the house by the door he had entered. About 20 feet from the back door was a wheelbarrow.

Starting point is 01:40:32 He sat down upon this, put the muzzle to his right ear, pulled the trigger, and Harry Lacey, weighed down by his real and imaginary troubles. His soul blackened with the murder of the wife he had sworn to protect of her mother and of himself, passed into another world to answer before another tribunal. Oh, wow. Whoa. They're all dead, sir, said the frightened and harmless voice of the little seven-year-old after he had speeded from the house of slaughter and had been admitted to the house of a neighbor.

Starting point is 01:40:59 Mr. Jones took the hand of the trembling little orphan and led him back to the house. There's Papa, he said, as they reached the back door. First of all, what? There lay hairy. So they get to the back door and he's like, oh, there's Papa. And it's a dead body? I feel like he was so young he didn't even know what he was really looking at. I mean, he knew they were dead, but I wonder if it hadn't.

Starting point is 01:41:21 Oh, I thought the neighbor said it. No, it's the kid. I think he's pointing being like, there's Papa. Like, there he is. Oh, my God. I hadn't even read it that way. Shit. Oh, my God.

Starting point is 01:41:36 Okay. I thought it was like, because it says Mr. Jones took the hand. Yeah, what a weird thing for him to say. Yeah. Okay. Wow. Oh, okay. Oh, Jesus.

Starting point is 01:41:45 Okay. So little boy says, there's Papa. Oh, so much worse. he said as they reached the back door. There lay hairy, his face quiet and peaceful after the terrible tragedy. Under his right arm was a 38 caliber revolver, three chambers empty, a life for each. The blood had matted in his thick hair. Into the house Mr. Jones went.

Starting point is 01:42:04 Mrs. Bunker lay on the floor with her arm raised on a chair where she had fallen. The right eye was badly swollen and was black and blue. By the stove lay the body of Mrs. Lacey, daughter, wife, and mother. Her hand was blacked with powder and a black spot was below her eye. The three people were shot in almost exactly the same place. Harry was the prince of marksman, and he would have considered himself disgraced had he made any misses. So does Christ do you make himself? Right.

Starting point is 01:42:30 Like, first of all, let's not be cutesy about this. So the $13 bill that he owed, by the way, at the restaurant in today's money, I looked it up, is $477. So I'm like, he's running up a tab at that restaurant. Totally. And he's like, here's my overcoat. Like, please. Yeah. And also, I mean, I just, I, that poor kid.

Starting point is 01:42:58 And the fact that like, I don't know where this kid was, was he hiding or something. Because how did he witness every single death? I mean, like, that's just so sad. Well, I think what happened is like the in-laws, the mom, the in-laws freak out. They see they, because remember that his wife left the house. kind of abruptly when he was home. Like she probably sends something, I don't know, I don't know, went to her mom's house with the kids.

Starting point is 01:43:21 They're all there. They see him coming. They see him with a gun. They lock the doors. He barges down the door. So the kids are already like something terrible has happened. He probably just froze and just witnessed it from like start of to finish. And then like once he does these horrible things, he just calmly walks outside.

Starting point is 01:43:40 And then you're like, dad and you look out and I mean, Jesus Christ. Holy shit. It was such a out of all the sentences this was like such a vague non-descript one but like it was just like obviously the kid is now

Starting point is 01:43:57 is reporting to the journalist that you just saw like the mom like move from one end of the room to the other when he saw the husband kicked down the door they saw the revolver and she you could tell that he witnessed her like immediately trying to recoil out of the room or back away from him

Starting point is 01:44:13 and just to know that, like, she knew immediately what was going to happen and the fact that he was kicking down the door. I mean, it was just bad. And the fact, you're right, because the only source, the only primary source was, were these two kids. One's three and one seven. So the seven-year-old is telling the story. And it's like, yeah, he was the one who knew she crossed the room. He was the only one who knew, like, he's the only one who could be reporting any of these details. So, yeah, you realize.

Starting point is 01:44:38 But then he fought it off from her. And to know that she was so close. And like he walked over, looked at her dead body for a few seconds. I mean, like, what the fuck? Yeah. So, well, there's that for you. Happy birthday, everybody. Dare I ask, what the hell were my quips about this?

Starting point is 01:44:59 Yeah, there was only one. Okay. I feel like there were definitely some stories where I was like, how the fuck am I supposed to be funny about this? This was, I think, maybe one of the last ones where we really didn't know how to kind of get into it. And I have a picture here of the book. It was right near the beginning. And it was when Sumner walks into the house and says they're all dead, sir. And M says, oh, my God.

Starting point is 01:45:25 And my response is so cringe. I'm sorry. Okay. So you say, I'll take the creepiest thing a child could walk into a room and say to me, say to my face for 800, Alex, which I love. And then I wrote, answer, daily double. And I said, I. I'd wager at all if I were you.

Starting point is 01:45:42 It's so embarrassing. Okay. So that's what. I do appreciate because I, of another insider tip, I was definitely making, um, statements as I read it for the very first time because I didn't want, I knew I was then going to, it was just going to get worse from wherever I was reading and I didn't want. If there was something early, it was like, get that spot, get the quip in now before we find out what's about to happen.

Starting point is 01:46:05 Because it's not going to be pretty. Yeah. If I read any more and then it was worse, I was like, I don't know. I don't even want to be funny earlier up in the paragraph. So I definitely said that as... I definitely wrote that as a quip the first time I saw that and went, where the fuck is this going? That's exactly right.

Starting point is 01:46:23 Yes, yes. So that's what happened. That was our only kind of quip for the situation. And then I took a picture of the next page, which was your Mount Marty. So shout out to Mount Marty. And any alums or students out there? So that's my South Dakota special. Okay.

Starting point is 01:46:40 I'm glad you told me as I'm trying to plan my Dakota's trip at some point. I thought, hey, maybe it'll be of interest to you if you make your way over there. Yeah. That's the only thing I have to say about South Dakota is that I will be there at some point this year. I love that. Maybe someone will ask, maybe someone will suggest you become a New York Times bestseller and you can say, well, actually. I will literally probably start it with I feel really uncomfortable saying this

Starting point is 01:47:12 but I'm supposed to say But my friend made me promise I'm trying to be really brave and proud of myself No I thank you for the permission Because I always feel I want to talk about it But also what I know It's like impossible I get it It's so hard

Starting point is 01:47:27 And it's like I'm not saying if some weirdo is like Hitting you up to talk about it I'm not like pressuring you to make conversation With somebody uncomfortable But like you know If you ever feel like Oh shit, I should say something. I don't know.

Starting point is 01:47:39 I know. Usually, uh, there, if I'm again with my mother, she will make sure that it's said because I certainly me not going. But on my own, I'm like, oh, I feel like being humble is the right way to go. But I'm like, no, I think I, I don't know. But it is. Yeah, you're not not humble, you know. It's like, and it's also like a fun synchronicity for them too.

Starting point is 01:47:58 And I don't know. It is. If they say that and then you're like, um, Leona. When I asked her like, oh, do you want to go tell them that I wrote that book? She was like, not really. And I was like, cool, thanks. She's going to grow up thinking that just everyone does write a book eventually. So, you know, maybe you're actually encouraging her to normalize that for herself of like, oh, I'll be an author.

Starting point is 01:48:19 Obviously, that's just what opens. Yeah, the bar is super fucking high. You better become a bestseller, you know. One day she'll realize and be like, oh, my mom's cool. One day. I think she'll be like, oh, then anyone can write a bestseller. No. That's what I'm saying.

Starting point is 01:48:32 I feel like you're normalizing it for her that, like, it's possible. Oh, I see, I see. Well, hopefully. Hopefully. Anyway, how is she? Is there an update for the general public? How, what she's into these days and she's still scared of bears and wolves. That is continuing.

Starting point is 01:48:52 However, now we use a little, a little potion, a little cleansing spray in the room every night to kind of clear the energy and clear the air. And I'm not so subtly getting her into the witchiness. That's fine. I love it. You can get her into worse, you know? That's right. I mean, that's what I think, but we'll see. I mean, and also, like, if you're going to be into witchy stuff and your mom's going to be

Starting point is 01:49:18 into witchy stuff, there's no such thing as being scared of monsters under your bed. That's right. That's what I said. I was like, there's so much power you have. Like, you have power to keep yourself safe, you know? And I just, I want, I don't know. This is why those Puritans were scared of us because they knew that we knew that we knew that we power.

Starting point is 01:49:37 Ooh, la la. That's why they keep the matriarchy down. Any plans for the rest of the week before we record again? I have no clue, M. When do we record again? I don't know. Oh, okay. You know, I don't think I really have any plans. Just taking my watercoloring course, you know, so I'm having fun with that. Are you ever going to show us any of your watercolors?

Starting point is 01:50:00 Oh, I would love to. I don't have any here, but maybe for a yappy hour. And then, oh, maybe we could do a show and tell. And you could do like your ASL or something. We can do like a little show and tell. Very cool. I'll make sure to learn the word water. Or an archery or whatever the fuck you're up to nowadays, you know? I do know that this is water and this is colors.

Starting point is 01:50:21 Maybe that's water colors. I don't know. I mean, that's so cool. I want to learn that. Sorry, water. Water. Water. Water.

Starting point is 01:50:30 Water colors. Water colors. Water colors. Ah! I don't know if that's actually appropriate. really watercolors, but, you know. It's water plus colors, so I'll take it. Yeah, yeah, I'll take it too.

Starting point is 01:50:41 So, all right, well, we'll see everybody next week for a show and tell of sorts. And, uh, drink some water and take your vitamins and your medications. Don't drink the watercolor water because moonshine does that and I'm like, that's going to give you a tummy ache. Your throw-up's going to be green, moonshine. You know what I mean? And that's why we drink.

And That's Why We Drink - E480 Clown Bags and Accidental Witchcraft

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