And That's Why We Drink - E490 Reverse Victorian Child Trauma and Skeleton Touching Collaborations

Episode Date: July 19, 2026

We’re here, we’re queer, we’re both wearing tie dye and it’s Episode 490! Today Em brings us a short but spooky story about the Buena Vista Cemetery & Hunter Steakhouse. Then Christine covers the murder of Jody Loomis, a decades long cold case that was finally solved. And will someone let us know why there’s always a Walter among us? …and that’s why we drink!Photo Links:Hunter’s Steakhouse ghostJody LoomisCOMING SOON! Be on the lookout for The ParaSocial Club Presented by ParaPods Network launching this Wednesday on YouTube at: https://www.youtube.com/@ATWWDPodcast Want to listen ad-free? Join our Certified Yapper tier for $10/month on Patreon! Ad-free episodes starting at E469 at: patreon.com/ATWWDPodcast !Catch our bonus Yappy Hour intermissions on Apple Podcasts: apple.co/3L28lDw or subscribe on Patreon!___________________Get 40% off your first Hungryroot order plus a free item in every box for life at hungryroot.com/DRINK with code DRINK.Head to chime.com/drinkGet 10% off your first order sitewide with code DRINK at oseamalibu.com .Start your new morning ritual & get up to 43% off your @MUDWTR with code DRINK at mudwtr.com/DRINK ! #mudwtrpodIf you think you or someone you know might be struggling with OCD, please don't wait to get help—go to learn.nocd.com/ATTWD and book a free call with their team to learn more.Get your new wireless plan for just $15 a month at mintmobile.com/ATWWD . Upfront payment required; see mintmobile.com for details. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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But he hasn't forgotten them. Sometimes Spider-Man has to do the hard thing. That's my responsibility. Talk to Banner? I didn't know you could get that big. Spider-Man, brand-new day in theaters, July 31st. There was a time, M, when I searched under the beds for killers and clowns. And instead, I found a lemon and my life was changed for the better.

However, it was on that trip when I realized, oh, M and Eva don't look under the beds every single night for murderers. That's odd. I would say, like, lemon is the silver lining of my OCD diagnosis. Would you agree? I think, well, I feel cornered. I'll say lemon was a benefit. Okay, we got it, folks. Oh, God. As you can see, OCD is much more than the stereotypes, because if that was the stereotype, things would be really wild.

Compulsions can be physical, like checking locks or under the bed or mental, like replaying past events. If you feel like you know what this is like and you may be wondering or curious, no CD is here for you. Not every therapist understands OCD or is qualified to treat it effectively, which can, of course, make it difficult to find the right help. OCD is highly treatable with a specialized type of therapy called ERP or exposure and response prevention. That's what helped me recover from that very difficult period of my life. With NoCD, you can do live virtual ERP therapy with licensed therapists who specialize in OCD. And OCD therapists are highly trained so they really understand OCD and won't judge you no matter what your thoughts are about.

NoCD therapy is covered by insurance as well for over 155 million Americans. So if you think you or someone you know might be struggling with OCD, please don't wait to get help. Go to NoCD.com and book a free call with their team to learn more. That's NOCD.com to schedule a free call and learn more. We're here. We're queer. We've got tie-dye. We're matching. We're both in tie-dye. Love it.

It felt like a tie-dye day. It's the day before Friday. So I'm pre-pre-excited for the weekend. You're like casual Friday, but casual Thursday. That's right. Yeah. I would prefer a casual Thursday. If I worked in an office, actually casual Wednesday would feel nice also because it's like right in the middle. I feel like it'd be like pajama Wednesday. And then Friday's more like casual like working. going to hang out later maybe, you know.

Like Friday, you should get to go, you should go dressed so you can go straight to the bar afterwards or like whatever you do afterwards. Yeah. Like you should be able to wear your cute little like your romper or like, you know, whatever you want to wear. Your cape. Your cape. Like if it's chilly, you know, your shoulders won't have to worry.

I really, I agree. I think Fridays should be whatever you need. Wednesdays should be pajama day. What would the other days be? I'm trying to avoid all corporates. corporate outfits. Stay home maybe for the other day. So maybe for some people, Wednesday is a pajama day. I was going to say, I don't know. I don't like working. So I think that I'm not the one to tell you how to run your office people. You run your own office. You tell me,

though, if tie-dye Monday would do some real damage in a good way. I'm going to say like naturally Tidey Tuesday just has a better ring to it. But I like, I like where your head's at. That's a good point. Yeah, I, this is why we're a power team. right? It's like, wow, one idea after the other. We're just making waves in the industry. No, because I feel like I had a good idea. And then you went, actually, what about this? And I went, let's just up the game. Yeah. Yeah. Really changed the game there. Well, what's been going on with you? We haven't talked in like two whole weeks. And it's just been missing Carmen San Diego style across the world. I don't know where, but just around.

And have you had a lovely time traveling? I did. I really needed it. Well, it started with a family vacation with Allison's family. And then... It always does. It always does. I needed a catalyst to get me to the East Coast. Yeah, the first domino's got to go over, you know. And then there was a wedding in Connecticut that was the few days I needed to be in Connecticut for that.

Where in Connecticut? Old Money, Connecticut. It was... Is that the name of it? Oh, no. No. Imagine being a town, you're like, we're going to call themselves old money. I love it.

Um, it was, uh, it's near Mystic, Connecticut where I did, I obviously checked out Mystic. Yeah. Oh, how was, oh, I've been a Mystic, but only once. Oh, it was very nice. The aquarium I went to. What's that? I went to the aquarium. I did not. But they had a bookshop that told our book. Wait, which one? I've been there. Alice's little haunted bookshop. Yes. Uh, yeah, my mother-in-law, like, loves that spot because they live in Connecticut. And so every time she goes there, she sends me a little picture. I think it's a coastal chain. I thought it was like, I thought it was just in Mystic, but then one of my friends also just saw our book and they said, oh, I was just at, and I was like, wait, you were in Mystic? And they're like, no. So I think it's the story is at different places. I didn't know that. I've only heard of the Mystic one. Yeah. No, the place I went was, there was old Saybrook. I also went to Greenwich. Wow. Wow. I know. And but that was just Connecticut. I was trying to hit all of it. I did. I spent time in every state in New England.

I went to New York. I went to Pennsylvania. Oh my word. I was all over the place. I'll tell you, one of the things I did, I'm very excited to report back to you. Actually, two things. I don't know which one's going to require more conversation, so I want to say that one last. The first thing I did, okay, that I need to talk to you about.

And by the way, then I had to travel. I had to carry it all the way back because it was too expensive to ship back. And also it was too big to put in the overhead, so I had to hold it. No. I found it finally in real time because did you know that they're so hard to actually find. What? You did not take a hoop and stick on the fucking cabin in the cabin of the hoop. I found a hoop and stick and I carried it across the nation.

Did anybody stop you or try to? Everyone. Everyone. I thought you were going to say nobody dared. And then you said, actually, I hit a bump at every turn. Okay. first of all, I don't know what the hell's going on. I tried to ship this back, but it would only fit in a box that I guess was so big that to ship it from

New York to California, $800 to ship a whoop and stick. Well, the shape is like the size of a truck tire. So I imagine like if you were, I mean, it's obviously like an ounce heavy, but if you were to like the space that takes up. Literally like the people who were like, I was like, can you just tell me what boxes would fit in? And then they started laughing. They're like, I'm so sorry, but this would be $800. Because that's insane. And I was too embarrassed.

Do you want the faster one, which is like $780? I was too embarrassed to tell them that it was a hoop and stick. So I took the stick part off and I kept it in my backpack because that's easy. And so it just looked like a hula hoop. And they were like, we're sending a hula hoop. They're like for $800. Do you want to send a hula hoop? And I went, I don't.

I can't do that. I can't. So I now own a hoop and stick. And it was your carry on. Now we know. you can take that on. It was a carry. It was not an easy carryout.

I'll tell you that. Did TSA give you a hard time? The flight attendants were lovely. They put it in like their own personal storage. They put it in like the first class like next to the blazers. Yes. Yes. Because it couldn't sit.

It obviously couldn't go above but it couldn't be next to my knees either because it was like it would get into everyone else's space. It just rolls down the aisle and like hang on. With the stick. Oh. So anyway, I just, I wanted it on the record. that I have a hoop and stick. It's been very hard. I've been waiting to find one.

And I tried it. Have you been able to? Okay. It's actually so effing hard. Those little Victorian kids were really. I mean, they weren't playing with rusty cans half the time. Like, you know they were built of stronger stuff than we are. They clearly, I mean, even the skill that it takes to hoop and stick, like, I guess the name of the game was how long can you keep the hoop up using the stick.

And they would just go for miles and miles. And I can't do it for five fucking feet. I don't know how they did it. But I guess if you have all the time in the world and no other toys. And just like a dirty alley and street. Yeah. This is what happens when there aren't screens. The kids are good with a hoopin stick.

Like I would draw with squishy bugs. Yeah. That's so disturbing also. You know, like there are other disturbing things that have been done even in the 90s, you know. Anyway, that was a big thing. I really, I'm delight. I'm over the moon, I got to say about this. Thank you.

And I'm really, I'm hoping that I get good at it. So in my neighborhood, I'm known as the, like there's someone who uses hoopinster. already known for that. It's too late for that. Whether you're good at it or not. Honestly, if you're bad at it, it'll probably stick faster. Yeah, that's the sad part. Because I thought when we first moved here, I was like, oh, I'd love to get back into like unicycling. And then I'm like, I know as the person who unicycles. Yeah, that's what happens usually when you move like into your neighborhood. You're like, I really want to settle back into my roots, you know? I need to be known for something. I don't know what's wrong. Unicycling. But imagine if I got back in unicycling and hoop and sick at the same time.

And then I'm unstoppable. I mean, then the roads are going to be dangerous for everybody. No one's going to know what to expect. That's at least. You know what I always wanted to get into is penny farthing, which is like the really big Victorian bike with the one big. You also would do that. You would do that. It's disturbing to me.

We used to have them at the prop house and I was always too scared to ever learn how to try to run one. It seems terrifying. I would die immediately. Instantaneous death. Anyway, that's why I drink because I'm very excited that I have a, I think how little the stick is, though. Like, why is it the stick part so fucking small if the hoop is, like, I don't. It's like a foot long.

That's it. Yeah, I thought it was going to be more of like, you got more, more length to use rather than just. Yeah. I guess you only needed to just kind of do this and just hope it stays balanced, right? I thought it's supposed to roll the hoop and you're supposed to like. Like hit it this way. Oh my God. Do you not even know how to play it and you're like inventing your, no wonder you're so bad at it.

So you're going to be known as the person who has no fucking clue what they're doing with a hoop and stick. which is so much funnier to me than actually being good at it. Well, you know, they have that like trend for a while. I think it's meant to roll the pictures. They roll down the hit the street and you like. Yeah, but I think I use this to like try to keep it balanced. Oh, yes, yes. Upright, upright.

Yeah. Okay. I thought you were doing like a plate spinning situation. And I was like, well, that's your clowning kicking in. No, I will, there was that trend for a while about like what's the sentence. What's the crazy sentence you could say though? I make like a Victorian child. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Always funny to me. I feel like in reverse, like this, this is something a Victorian child would be like something that would make a future person's brain's blood. We never think about it that way, do we? But if someone said, let's play with a hoop and sick, I clearly can't keep up with them. You'd be laughed off the school yard. They'd be doing laps around me, yeah. Oh, my God.

And then we'd all have a, we'd fucking have a high cholesterol, like, heart attack. And they'd be like, these people are made of fucking, these fucking people are not withstand anything. I will say, I have one other thing I do really want to talk to you about, about my travels. That one was supposed to be not as talkative. So tell me the second thing. Well, I was going to say I'm aware that I'm kind of taking over the conversation right now. So I want you to give a divide here and tell us why you drink. Fantastic, because I'm so ready.

Because look at this, bad boy. It's a smoothie. That looks delicious. Oh my God. It's like a berry. It's supposed to be healthy for me. Ha ha ha ha. But it had like, Unlook, they brought me a pink straw today.

That's so fun. Is this from the same place you usually go to or no? You know what it is. And I can't stop. Well, no, it's not my big bees actually. No. It's a different place. It's some sort of farm.

Jucery situation. That's far too expensive, but I live in LA, so I can't complain too much. Does it taste like LA? I'm about to find out. Oh yeah. It's got dates. It's got, you know, all the classics. It's good for my, it's college and I don't know what the fuck is in it, but it was expensive, but I figured, you know what, treat yourself. Before I lived in LA, I really did not understand, nor was I willing to understand a date in a smoothie. It's really a game changer. You had no, you had absolutely no substance for that. I was like, I'll pass. Remember when you visited me and I was pregnant and I just ate so many fucking dates? It's delicious. Get the baby out. And I was like, I'm trying. I kept you. Was it dates or figs? I don't know. Figs I still don't stand behind. But dates are delicious.

But it's like, it's like nature's caramel. Well, that's beautiful. That's how it was described to me to get me to eat it. Oh. I'll tell Leon at that later. It's nature's caramel. Okay, now tell me the second thing, because the reason I drink is that I just don't even, I'm in such a liminal space I feel in my life that I don't even know why I drank this week. What have you been doing the last two weeks? Where'd you go? What'd you do? Who'd you see? Just like, you know, having a neurotic breakdown every once in a while.

Cool. What did you eat? Not much. Okay. Yeah, I sort of lost my appetite. It's just been a weird time. I feel like I'm in a liminal space for real. Oh, I've been doing YouTube.

I've been doing terror readings on one day I randomly. just did a terror reading on TikTok and it was like 50,000 views. And I went, I'm sorry, what's that about? So then I've been doing them every day for fun. And they only have like 100 views or 200, but it's like, I don't know, it's a good little routine. So it keeps me grounded. And yeah, so you can, I don't know, they're just kind of out there floating around. So if the one comes, I kind of set the intention of like, if this comes across someone's feed, maybe they're meant to get a message from it, you know, so. Nice. Is it called anything cool? No, I don't even have a name for it. I just like fucking did it and then started kept doing it.

And I've done it almost every day for like eight days now, which is like the longest I've ever done anything besides this podcast. That's awesome. Have you, has one stuck out to you where you got a reading where you're like, oh, this feels real. Yes. There was one so creepy yesterday that I did where I said, I keep getting Alaska. And it was like this intense Alaska energy.

The first fucking card I pull, the only card in the entire 80-some Oracle deck or Terra deck that was like a folklore from Alaska. And I was like, whoa. So that was freaky. And then something fell over like during a reading. There's like some weird like ghosty stuff that's happening. And then during that same reading, oh, I said like for some reason I'm being called to bring up my yearbook quote. And then I pulled up an Oracle card and it was like your high school yearbook or something.

And I was like, this is getting like. What the hell? It was getting weird. What was your yearbook quote? Oh my gosh. Well, I talk about it and the cynicism I've had and the relationship I've had to that quote in that video. But it was the meaning of life. is to plant trees under whose shade you do not expect to sit.

So like, oh, wow. And at the time, I was like, oh, that's so deep. And so I thought I was like, I was just who I was at the time. I was so deep. But looking back, like, I recently thought about it. And I felt so cynical. And I was like, I was just like had no boundaries. I was just like, you know, oh, the meaning of life is like, give away everything you have and like, blah,

I was just feeling so weird and cynical about it. And for some reason, I brought it up in the reading. And then I like pulled the your book card and it was like just very affirming. I don't know. It was cool. So I think I'm kind of doing readings for myself, but then it, like, resonates with people who are going through similar experiences, if that makes sense. Sure. So they're a healing, you know, exchange.

What do you mean that it, like, just brought up Alaska? Don't tarot cards, like, kind of just have, like, vague? Oh, I have a deck that's, like, folklore around the world. So it's, like, a tarot deck, but it's, like, themed of. So I'll just randomly, like, I have, like, as you know, like, 40 decks. Yeah. And, like, Eva and I have, and you have collected so many over our travels. Actually, I only have three.

Oh, okay. Well, you've gifted many, I guess I would say. And also I've received and Eva has certainly gifted and received many. And like, so that one was like place, yeah, like folklore from around the world. And I was like, oh, look at this woman and she's with the bugs. And then I like open and it's like, Alaskan folklore. And I was like, well, that was weird. That's cool. And then it was just fun to see people in the comments. And then I put like a pinned comment or a description of like what I feel like is the are the like synchronicities for the day like just weird stuff I don't know it's just fun I'm just fucking around and that's awesome yeah I don't know if it feels like resonant to anyone you go check it out otherwise well I would say what the I don't know how to totally segue into this but

I was thinking about while I was traveling because I was trying to like document as much of it as possible and I was thinking like I'm like really upset that I'm I know in a few months I'm just going to forget everything I did. And so I made a little video of like things to remember of like if I ever travel there with things to do again. And so I was like maybe I'll put on YouTube. So maybe you're like maybe like a little like people like especially when it's like travel stuff. Like my brother will sometimes just turn on like best places in or underrated spots and whatever and just like have it on. Really? I feel like that. Yes. People love shit like that. Dude. And what I would do, how I got into this was I was like so into watching those videos that I was like, oh, I think I could like do this in my own style.

So I feel like the best thing to do is like watch those kind of videos and be like, oh, which one is like something that I could kind of translate into my own. Because it's like whatever you feel like, oh, that's really cool how they do that. I don't know. I feel like that is the way to figure it out. But yeah, people eat shit like that up. Are you kidding me? That would be awesome. It would be more for me, I think, and that if people want to watch it, they can.

But I think I'm just, it's just so I have. I think that's the key though. Like that's why I'm doing it. I'm like I'm not expecting one video blew up and I was like okay fine that's my sign from the universe to keep doing it and then you know the next ones have like a hundred views fine I don't really care it's just like oh I like doing it and I feel more do you ever get a really good feeling that like you're like there's going to be a good crazy deck I can already tell this like I'm gonna yeah yeah yeah um it's crazy and I

just got my rakey like second certification and I got like my congratulations. Did you tell you told us about the first certification? Yes. And so I've got my second one now. I know it's crazy. And then I went in for like, um, you don't sound proud enough of yourself for that. No, I am. It's just a sort of a mind blowing because it feels a little bit like, like, what's happening? You know? I'm like, what's happening? Everything's just like, whoa. Um, but yeah, so I've been doing that. It's just kind of like, I'm just kind of like doing it for fun. So I would recommend though, just put stuff up. Who knows? I am very proud of you for all your Reiki stuff. Because you were very much underselling. it, but I know it takes a lot of work and thought. Well, thank you. It's been, it's been, it's been a blast. The thing I wanted to tell you is I stayed one extra day that I really planned to. I really wanted to leave a day earlier, but I realized I was pretty close to a town that you and I would care quite a lot about. So I'm here to tell you all about my day in Scranton. No. Oh my God. I was like Galena, Sleepy Hollow, we done that. Like, Salem, done that. New Orleans done that.

No, I'll- It's funny. I'll actually wear my galena bracelet today. I literally wore my galena shirt yesterday. Oh my God, I had a weird feeling you were, I was like, I'm going to wear my galena bracelet. I don't know why. I haven't worn it a long time. God damn it. I love galena.

Anyway, so sorry. Other city, other city. Yeah, I went to Scranton and I did a full office day, so I went everywhere, which I guess I'll talk about in the YouTube video. Oh, yeah. Oh, I thought you were going to say the yappy hour, but yes, also the YouTube video. Yes, you should absolutely do that. But I'll tell you, I went.

to all the spots. I went to Poor Richards. I went to, oh, this shirt is from Cooper Seafood. Shut the fuck up. Which I can tell you, I'll tell you,

that's, I get why in the show, Michael Scott is obsessed with Cooper Seafood. It's a very Michael Scott plays. And then I went to Alfredo's Pizza Cafe. I went to, the chilies,

obviously. Obviously. And I didn't know this. They opened that chili after like people from the office screamed about how there wasn't a Chili's in Scranton. I feel like I'd heard that somewhere on TikTok, but yeah. They wear different uniforms than anywhere else at Chili's.

Like theirs is the Dunder-Mifflin logo and it's a Chili's Scranton branch. And then they have- They actually wear those? Yeah. And then they have all over, like the decor of the Chili's is all office-themed. So like they had like- Holy shit. Some franchisor was like, a franchisee was like, I'm fucking nailing this by the way.

Literally they were, I think they took a survey and they were like, who are all the office fans here? All of you are in charge of designing this place. Because every wall, there was, like, all the way down to, like, pamphlets for, like, a condo for sale. And it was, it described Michael Scott's condo. Oh, my gosh. Killeys, not Killeys, Kevin's chili recipe framed on the wall.

They had, like. Do they have, like, a stain? No, that would be in the office. No, man. No, they had, they had a big poster that said, like, I feel God in those chilies. they had, um, uh,

oh my god, what am I missing? Oh, they had a little, like there was a booth that was designed to look exactly like the one in the episode that Michael Scott takes like the client to. Oh my gosh. It's literally like you don't get to eat there.

They had like props glued on the table so you could sit there and like take a picture like you're done. That's so good. Um, and then what else? I went to the actual Dunder Mifflin. I met their version of Pam, I think. but um and i even asked i was like what's your job and she was like it's the office like we all

you know what we do and i was like she like knew her fucking role like kidding me they do that i didn't know they do all this there yeah no they really lean into it and like even the the actual paper company there they change their logo on one side of their building so it's an actual paper company there yeah i didn't realize that which i think that it gets mentioned in the show at some point but um they they one side of their building they changed out their logo and everything and it just says Dunder Mifflin. It's literally like the paper. And then their lobby, they have a bunch of Dunder Mifflin stuff so you can go in and take

pictures like in their paper company lobbies. And they were they were the paper company that I guess John Krasinski filmed for the intro. And then they also, they were the ones that got interviewed by the writers to know how to actually run a paper company. And then what else? Oh my gosh. There were murals everywhere. pictures. I'll put it all somewhere. See, this is why we need the YouTube video. You walk through.

I know. I know. I already forgot it. But, um, oh, and then I went there was that episode where, um, uh, Ryan, like when, when he hurts his foot on the George Foreman girl and all he wants his pudding. And Ryan's like, oh, I got you pudding from a gas station in Carbondale. I went to a gas station in Carbondale and they do sell pudding, which is very odd. Oh my God. I got you a pudding from a gas station in Carbondale is a very good line. Yeah. I, um, okay, that's, that's really at the But I would have felt weird to not actually tell you about that. And then they sold dundies at a store, but they had dundies. They were all replicas of the dundies that people won on the show.

So you could get any dundee that anyone won. White as sneakers. They had white as sneakers. They had kind of a bitch award. They had, I want that. I got Allison won. It's the hottest in the office, which is what Ryan usually won. Yeah, the one.

But yeah, it was a good time. so, but it was so exciting to be there. And then it was shocking that like, it really hurt my feelings at one point. There was one of the waiters at the Chili's. He could tell I was a fan because I was like taking pictures of everything. And he came up and like was telling me a story about how like his parents like knew some of the people who worked on the show. And I was like, really like you have any other? Like do you remember anything?

Like anything else from that time? And he was like, no, I wasn't born yet. And I went, oh. He was like, I'm just. just remember because that's what my parents told me. It's just my legacy. Oh, God. Fuck.

Really made me feel so old. I was like, oh, because you look in my mind, I'm your age, you know? Right. Like, we're the youths. Yeah. Anyway, I went to Scranton, and that's the good reason why I drink. I love that for you. Congratulations.

That sounds like fun. Because I knew I would yap so much, I have a very short story for you today. Oh, exciting. Bring it on. Like, like not even half a page of notes. Oh, wow. Yeah. Because I knew I was coming in hot with my.

We always make up for it, especially after like a three week break or whatever, two week break. I know. I just had so much to catch you up on. Like I was in Scrant the whole time. I was like, oh, I got to tell her about this. I'm like, I can't even believe I didn't even. Oh, man. I must have felt something in the air.

I hope so. I certainly felt the threat from afar. Thank you. Yeah, I felt threatened really quickly with that. I'm glad to hear it. Mm-hmm. It can be so hard to go from like, oh, I bought so many groceries. And then all of a sudden they're all either bad.

or gone and I'm like, wait, now I don't have anything to eat. Oh, no. And I have a child. Help. Okay. So that is why I do love hungry root. Something new I discovered was Ithaca lemon dill hummus and it was sent my way. And I thought, wow, I never would have picked this up at the store, but it's like they knew. And that's why I stayed with hungry root because they know and they're, they build me this beautiful shopping cart. And yeah, it's a genuinely helpful tool to make sure my fridge actually has like yummy nutritious stuff and isn't just kind of like accidentally all old. And it made a great point too that Hunger Root gives you options you would have never thought of before. Like I wouldn't think to get that. And also I wouldn't feel confident in myself on how to like prepare that without any help.

So I opened the container and put a chip in it. So it wasn't very hard. It's incredible. Yeah. They just handle it. And they go, you're going to like this trust us. Boom. Food. Love that. You're going to love Hungry Root as much as we do. For a limited time, get 40. percent off your first order plus get a free item in every box for life. Go to hungry root.com slash drink and use code drink. That's hungry root.com slash drink, co drink and get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. So, okay, my story today is a little bit of a combo. It's two topics in one. It is the Buennavista Cemetery and the Hunter Steakhouse.

Whoa. You'll see how they make sense together. Okay. This is an ocean side California. This is near San Diego. And I wanted to do a cemetery. One of the things while I was on my travels, I went to a cemetery. I was like, oh, I'm in the cemetery. So, uh, this is in San Diego. And oceanside California specifically is built right above this lagoon area. It's very beautiful. Yeah. It's so beautiful that some people wanted to rest there permanently and thus it became this cemetery where I guess people could overlook the lagoon. I see. I thought you were going to say they jumped off of it. Oh. Oh. So that's, I'm glad we went different directions with that. I'm so glad. Good things. Good things. No. So a cemetery was built

there and it was a very quick turnaround. This cemetery really only existed for like maybe 30 years. So it was from 18. They were like we're going to put our house here, not a cemetery. I think that's kind of how people. Like immediately they want the land. Why do dead people get to look out of the ocean? I'm still alive. Well, it's funny that you mentioned that because wasn't it like the 1880s, I think, where, I don't know what the right phrasing as architects or designers or something. The intention of cemeteries for a while was to be public parks. So that way you could go visit your family, but it was still like a welcoming place where people could hang out.

So that way you never really felt like your family was isolated somewhere. You could still enjoy them and make family time out of it. That's for like a beautiful view, a vista. I, yeah. So in my mind, it makes sense like you would put a cemetery next to a lagoon if you think people would want to be there. Absolutely. And to come and pay respects and say, yeah, that makes it.

Actually, it makes total sense. Yeah. Well, we don't think that way anymore. Well, to the, to the, to the, maybe to the city planners, but not to the big wigs. Well, so it was built in 1888. I don't actually know when it was built. That was the first burial we know of. so I'm assuming the cemetery.

They were just waiting before that. Maybe it was just like, we have a hole. And then they were like, oh, actually. There's just one hole. They're like, we're going to christen it any day now. And then it'll be a cemetery. Yeah, true. And only the final burial we know of was in 1916.

So that's what, 20. Yeah, it wasn't very long. 22 plus 16. Very short period of time. Yeah, not even 40 years. Okay. So the cemetery was here. It was called the Buena Vista.

Cemetery because it overlooked the Buena Vista Lagoon. And yeah, the last burial was 1916. But by 1929, which is like 15 years later, it was, the area was completely abandoned. Oh. The cemetery was overgrown, I guess because since it, since it's beginning, there was never like a caretaker. And so after 40 years, right. And if nobody else is getting buried there, it's like people stop visiting and, yeah.

Yeah. Or I would even think the, if they never had a caretaker and it started in 1888 by 1929, it's just like, oh, true. Just a mess and you don't want to. I don't even know it's there. Yeah. So who knows? Maybe if they employed people to like be like maintenance workers there, it would have saved open longer. But anyway, so it was abandoned by 1929.

At that same time, the cemetery or the road that it was on was being redeveloped. And so because of this, they were going to be shifting things. around on the land. Oh, okay. A bunch of bodies were buried. Yeah, good start. Mm-hmm. So at this point, just in 1929, as they're doing this first round of redevelopment,

around like 10 different bodies were dug up and at least moved to a new cemetery. Because one of the other reasons that this place was abandoned was because a whole new, bigger, better cemetery had opened up. Sure. So they find around 10 bodies, a different source is a different number. So I'm sticking with around 10. They dug these bys up. and move them to a cemetery.

And since the cemetery had been abandoned for like 15 years, the bodies, I guess, technically were also abandoned. So I'm unsure if there were families who were, like, notified. But it also seems that nobody complained either. No one, like, rode in and said, where the hell are the bodies that we buried? Right. I guess nobody was visiting anyway. So maybe they didn't.

Oh, ooh, okay. So, and I don't think they had, like, plot info on the body. They were just kind of, I think they didn't even know what they would find. They just kind of started digging. And if they found a body, they were like, okay, let's. There weren't even like grave, like gravestones, headstones? I don't think so because one of the mysteries of the cemetery was we don't know how many bodies, to this day, we don't know how many bodies were on the land. Goodness.

Okay. And some had headstones. There was actually like a whole controversy somewhere in like the 70s, I think, where this guy was like, it's clearly only this many bodies that are here. But he was really just counting the headstones that existed and not. any of the like random graves that didn't have. Oh, wow. Okay. Okay.

So anyway, because they didn't have plot information, I think they were like, let's just hope for the best and hope we don't hit any bodies and then they hit a few and then had to dig them out and move them. That was the first time that this happened. But then in the 1950s, the property was sold to a teacher who, I love her mind, she bought the land strategically to keep her own house's view of the lagoon. she was like somebody would be like I need to get on this yeah she was like if I buy this land then nobody else can touch it and therefore like a skyscraper won't show up yeah yeah in the way

of my view yeah love her love her um but very quickly she sold to a developer l o'l who was going to use it for commercial property anyway so she had a plan and then did not stick with it so by the 1960s 1970s now freeways are starting to get built all over the place and specifically in this area was going to be the five. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so a ramp was going to be built right over this land. That's what they decided to do with this property.

So even though in the 1920s, they accidentally hit a few bodies and then dug them up and buried them at the new cemetery, this is now the second time where there's going to be construction in the area. And in the zoning where the cemetery is, they end up digging up 17 more bodies. Oh, more. Oh, my goodness. Okay. Yeah.

So now we're at like 27-ish. Jeez. During this time, the gravestones themselves, this is like the most fucked up part to me. And I don't know why, but it just feels like the last personal thing that any of these bodies ever got to lay claim to. The gravestones, since they dug the bodies up and there was no reason for the gravestone anymore, they repurposed them and used them as parts of the highway ramp. Oh, God. that does feel just It feels dirty.

It does. It feels so wrong. It's so disrespectful. So now if you're driving on the five in, in Oceanside, you're like, am I driving on a gravestone? Sure you are rolling over it. That's just like, of all things, a freeway.

It's like, okay, like I understand if you want to, if there were other reasons to dispe. I don't know. It just feels a little. I guess like in the world of like, if we're thinking truly like just a bunch of shitty businessmen, they're like, well, it's free concrete. Like I mean, yeah, I suppose.

It just feels weirdly like, oh, you're going to get haunted, dude. I feel like there should be a story somewhere of like this haunted section of the five. And it's because it's built out of gravestones. You know how like every hotel is like, well, we're built out of limestone. So we must be haunted. I'm like, this is made out of fucking graves, babe. Oh my God. The orcan man.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. What is he doing there? Tell him to go away. Is he waiting for me? me. He did ring the doorbell. Hide.

It was so worth it for that. For the jump scare. It was so worth it every second. That really was the perfect timing, too. My God, you really got me too. Like, I got jumpy. Wow. I had to, wow. I had to take a breath after that.

That was a good jump scare for all of us to kind of wake back up. I think the last word I said was graves, like empty graves. Yeah, and then you look to the side and like jumped out of your skin. Oh my God, okay. It's especially because the doorbell is right next to me, so they have to lunge this way. Yeah, it does always appear as though you're like recoiling. Okay. So I'm more than halfway done with those already.

So, okay, so that was the second time that we had bodies being discovered and every looking. Oh, yeah, you said 17 more bodies. That's what happened. And then like the jump scare. Okay. So there's already, now we're at about like 30 bodies. And so. Oh, geez.

as far as we know, everything's good for like the next 20 years. And then by 1991, Texaco, they're soil testing in the area. And I don't know how deep you're digging the soil to test it, but they've accidentally came across like five more bodies. I mean, I guess you would. You're testing the soil. You got to go deep down in there. I wonder if they tested it and they were like, it says body remains are here.

And then they like had to keep digging. There must be oil here. And it's like, no, just grandma's pearls. but it just feels, yeah, Texaco. Good job. So they ended up finding five or six more bodies. And during the most recent construction, which I'm not, I don't even know if this is the most recent construction,

because it sounds like in 2020 they found even more. But somewhere between 1991 and 2020, they were now grading the land, which I did not know what that meant. That means when the machines are intentionally creating slope so that way rain will pour away from your house. You're saying that like a construction worker, like you know what the fuck I'm saying. Yeah, city planner.

What can I say? I watched Parks and Rec too. You know what I mean? Okay. So for people who don't watch Parks and Rec, they were digging slopes. I'm just kidding. I know what. I don't know.

I just kind of. You said, you said, uh-huh, so confidently. I was like, I guess I was like, I guess I must mean. And then I seem to be right. So I just went with it. Your confidence made me believe that you. I'm just extremely smart. So.

It showed, yeah. The, um, the, the, during the most recent construction or development or whatever, they were grading the soil. They found even more bodies. And at one point, this is like, I can't imagine me the person in charge of this like construction equipment. You would know the name since you're so smart. First of all, shut up. You're right. I'll tell you in a minute. But one of them was driving one of the big machines and they accidentally struck two coffins and bones started like spilling out. That's not me on the first day of the job. That's me at the first day of the job at like the Amazon warehouse. You don't hit this section.

Yeah, literally. I just, oops, I went too far. And then I accidentally tumbled bones all across the works, the workspace. This is insane. That's insane. Imagine that's your job. You're just like, I'm just grading the land as always with my big machine and it's like fucking bones. Brow out.

You have to, I mean, I wouldn't hope to desecrate any graves, especially any further more graves. Oh, thank you for saying that. More people should be open about that. Thank you. Well, I'm saying that because part of me, a morbid way would be like if this place like three times in a row now has had history of like yeah digging up bodies i'm kind of wondering if i'm going to like like what's the jackpot in this situation am i going to hit a body in the industry you'd already it already have a name built for itself

because anyone doing development in that area finds a body it seems so it's like yeah you kind of know what you're getting into but like to have the bones spill about is like so startling i'm not saying i would want that to happen but i would be disappointed if that place had a place had a history of it And we walked away without like an interesting story. What I would be disappointed in is if that was the day before my first day on the job. You know, I missed the action. I was my days. I was the orientation day and I missed it.

And oh my gosh, I would be so disappointed. But I would want all the details. Yeah. Yeah. I want to be involved 0% but I do want to be like working that day and hear about it. Just like in the wings. Yeah. Yeah.

That's exactly what I want. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to be feeling guilty about anything. But I do want to be in on it. Yeah. And I want to be a hold space for all the trauma, but I would just want to be part of the, like, watch crew. That's exactly right. I just want to be in the back. Um, I definitely want to be the person. Like, I want to be like the town crier of the construction crew where I go, oh, my God, we found one.

You and I would be fucking so annoying. We'd be like, you guys, do you guys here? Oh my God. And then you and I would fight each other and we'd be like, we'd fucking work the story up into like a frenzy. It would be insane. And I wouldn't even be useful that day on, on the set. I wouldn't even be useful that day. We would turn it into a set because we would immediately create content out of. it because we're insane. That's what I'm saying. I'd immediately start like looking up the names and trying to find out who it was. You and I would be unhinged about it immediately. Um, so, but you know, obviously, um, I don't think they handled it. Let's put this way. Even though I, I feel a little hesitant about even my own response on what I would do where I would just want to know all the information. These people handled it worse because, oh, how? I wouldn't say the construction crew were to blame at all. I think there's some project

manager who needs to reevaluate his, um, his table things. Because basically they hit these two bodies. And to make his deadline on the project, um, he literally had workers just take the bones and put them in burlap sex and then told the crew to keep working. Oh my God. And, and these people, I mean, that's traumatizing in and of itself to have to be doing that as like, order. To pick up bones and put them in a bag. Right. Literally. And then hide them from orders of your boss. What the fuck? Um, and I, I saw on one story as it said that like, they literally called the city and that's what the city wanted to do to also keep the project on the the city give me fucking give me a break call that mayor is corrupt i'll tell you it's a dog probably like the one you like so much it's probably like yeah dig up all the bones give them to me honestly

that would be mayor max's best day 100% that's a fucked up thing you say but i but like it is funny also dogs and bones okay so you guys get it do you get it please god because otherwise i feel like i'm really making a bad job okay um but no that like is that not so fucking up that he was just like, all right, put him in a bag, we're done. In a burlap? Wait, what year was that too? That I don't know. It's between the 90s and 2020. Yeah, like, what burlap sack? What are you doing? This is disturbing. Yeah, we couldn't put them at least in like Tupperware or something where we could preserve them and bring them

somewhere. Someone's trunk or something. Yeah. I don't know. Like something air tights. That way you can like find out something to do with them later. I guess that I guess he probably just didn't want anyone to know. And that's the point, right? Like he didn't want it to halt construction or whatever. Well, when that happened. I would be the whistleblower because not on purpose. I would just accidentally blab too much. I wouldn't be able to shut the fuck up about that.

I'd be like, can you believe this fucking happened? And then they'd be like, what happened? I'd be like, I didn't, wasn't me. Nothing. Nothing. Ask him. Ask him. Well, so, then even more bodies were found.

And I guess the construction crew bless them. They were afraid that these body thralls just going to get put in burlap sacs and neglected. And so they literally took the construction equipment themselves and re-buried the bodies. Wow. Oh my gosh. Wow. Good for them. I bet you there was one guy who was like being an asshole about it. Sure. I was like, oh no, I'm just the asshole. Like he had to like reevaluate too. I'm sure he was like if everyone else is feeling this way like I really actually have to think about. Yeah. He was probably like he probably made a joke about how Mayor Max would have loved this. And then I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

That was a joint effort. Christy did you know. No, trust me. I literally set you up for that one. That's, we'd be in the same boat. I mean, it's very, uh, we'd be going, we'd be like laughing and going, oh, it's too soon. I didn't realize. Sorry. It's, it's, it's a, for sure, a morbid joke. But I mean, what else are you going to do when you're digging and burying? And traumatized. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes you got to laugh through the pain. So, um, yeah, the construction team, I guess handled it. Or I don't know how many. Maybe it wasn't all them. Maybe it was just some of them. But around 10 bodies in total were found during this event. So that makes like 12 more bodies on top of the, on top of the, almost 30 bodies. Okay. You know, I like have not ever thought about it this way, but some things aren't meant to be transparent, like swimsuits. But when it comes to like a bill, like a, say a phone bill, yeah, it's like transparency is a word they've never heard of. And suddenly there are these fees and there are these like little add-ons. And like, they're like, wait, you already knew about that. But no, no, no, no, we're done with that because now MittMobil's here with high-speed data and reliable coverage on the T-Mobile 5G network. And right now all plans are $15 per month, even

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availability, speed, and coverage varies. SeamotMobil.com. Now we get to 2020, and I don't know any information more than the fact that three more bodies are discovered around this time. Oh, my word. And I really don't know how old those bodies would be,

anything like that. It was actually an editor's note from a previous news article where they went, the body count has climbed. They were like updated information. Oh my God. Yes.

Yes. So now the number of, currently stands at around 50 to 52. Jesus. And they thought like maybe 10 at first. And they were like, oh, I think that's everyone. Wow. And I mean, I guess there were gravestones there. So it wasn't technically a potter's field. There were people who wanted to be identified. But maybe they had like family plots, you know, where it was like you don't necessarily know how many people in a family were buried in a certain name or no clue. I don't know. I don't know. Before I stopped talking about the cemetery, though, I want to tell you the creepiest part for sure is that in the.

70s when they were doing their bout of construction and they found all these bodies. What's so freaking eerie about this? I remember these bodies, as far as we know, the latest one was buried in 1916. Right. So these bodies were buried between the 1880s and 1916. In the 70s, when they were going through this redevelopment and taking the bodies out, the bodies that were being discovered, despite them being decades old, they were in, quote, perfect condition.

Ugh. The bodies, their clothing, and even a flower that one body was holding. One man was holding a flower in his coffin showed no signs of decay.

Little to no signs of decay. The flower still had its color. Like it was... What the fuck? Okay, is this... I can't even press a dandelion over here and they're just like preserving roses under... In a coffin.

I mean, that's a fault boy lyric. Write that down. You bet, please. Maybe it's a salty, sea air is so good for you. Well, so their theory is that there was something in the soil, especially in 91. Soil testing. Testing that soil, yeah.

I mean, maybe in, I would imagine I would be on the soil testing team. One way to pitch it to me. I also imagine you would be on the soil testing team. What? I think I would immediately, it would be a no for me if I was, if I'd volunteer to be part of the soil testing team. But if someone pitched it as, no, no, 20 years ago, they started finding like bodies that were buried 100 years ago and they were in perfect condition.

all of a sudden I'd be a soil genius and I'd be doing anything to get on the ground. Oh yeah, you'd be like, I've actually overnight read every book and Reddit posts that ever existed about this and suddenly I accidentally became the expert. Yeah. Yes, 100%. But no, I mean, they were pulling bodies out. There was one man who I guess like, especially if they're that in that pristine condition, you could probably identify them really well. Oh, true. Oh, and that's, oh, yeah, that's disturbing. But then I also wonder, like, I don't know how, spread out the land was that was getting developed on because if some of these bodies were in perfect condition but other ones were like literally bones falling apart then the soil is either

completely different or one of these stories is not true or maybe it's just 50 years later you know I mean 70s that's a 50 year span and then 70s to 2020 is 50 years so maybe it just that's a good point over time I don't know but I mean it's still weird so weird it's still very weird but maybe it took longer to get to the skeletal fit. Oh, I don't know. I don't know. And I also, I would like to ask, like, I don't have the answer in front of me, but I would love to know what the deteriorating time span is of clothing.

Like, if I was buried in a tux, how long until the tux is not here anymore? I promise you, you can just Google that real quick, then find out. Well, because I'd like to, I, if I'm, am I just bones and clothes for a while? Yeah, if you're wearing polyester. But if you're wearing a wool, I was probably going to go right with you. What about a linen or a hemp? I feel like hemp is going quite quick. Yeah, that'll go right with you too.

That's more biodegradable, I would say. Realistically, if I am getting buried, period, it should be in tie-dye. I want that on the record. Yeah, that'll never decay. So if I'm ever buried and then someone finds me and I'm not in tie-dye, I'm telling you my last, my last wish is to then put tie-dye on the skeleton. So you were saying, like, foul play. And I was like, I'm on the case, but no, you just want to change shirt. I'm not going to change your fucking shirt.

Not, not it. I would touch your skeleton. You wouldn't touch my skeleton? No, what the fuck? No, I wouldn't touch your skeleton. You would touch my skeleton, you fucking freak. If it were to help you, yeah. Well, how would that help me?

Don't touch my skeleton. What if you weren't in? Stop touching my skeleton. What if you weren't in tie-dye and that was your last request? You wouldn't put fucking tie-dye on? You wouldn't at least drape it on me. I'm naked. You're not going to put it.

anything on my naked skeleton that's so fucked up. No, no, I don't even want to hear it. No, no, I'm mad. I'm all about consent. I consent to putting fucking tie-dye on my skeleton. What's wrong with you? So now you're not... How about this?

I don't consent to you not putting tie-eye on my skeleton, so you better fucking do it. I don't consent to this collaboration. Thank you. It's like kind of fucked up. You don't want me to like to rest easy. But okay, whatever. I don't. I mean, not.

my... Look, how about this? What if the skeleton is just bones? It's not like there's like anything rotting anymore. It's just bones. Okay. That's... Oh my God. Well, I hadn't thought of things too wrong enough that I have a skeleton. I hadn't thought of like it was still smelling like something. That makes it like... No, if I'm just like a cartoon skeleton and there's nothing but... No, that's what I was imagining in the first place that I was already freaked out. And then you added like rotting flesh to the picture and it didn't help the situation. Hmm. I don't know how to come back from this. I think I would just be afraid, like, you know, sometimes I touch a treat. I'm like, oh, it's talking to me. So I think I just...

What? Oh, I'm weird. Oh, okay. I would be more worried about like a spider web in your eyeball or something. You know what I mean? That'd be crazy. Like, a little cockroach comes out. Oh, my God. You're making it, like, I never want to touch anyone's skeleton and you're making it worse. I'm just, I'm thinking about it in terms of cartoons where like, like, there's like little buggies and stuff in a skull. I'm not thinking about it in terms of a human skeleton.

Hmm, interesting. Okay. Well, I'll ask Allison. I'm not dressing your naked skeleton. And I'm putting that out on the record right now. If someone... Cancel me. Try.

Go ahead. Do it. I don't care. If someone digs up my body one day and there is not tie-dye, you know what to do. Don't fucking come for me. First you write an evil letter to Christine saying how to bear you. No, I don't even dare. Then you have a tie party around.

my grave and throw it along. It's not my fault that you wore tie-dye hemp into your grave and it dissolved immediately. That's a great point. Okay, first we have to find the toughest material possible in that. We have to find the, like, whatever they make the soil, Texaco, whatever Texaco put in the soil over the cemetery, just weave that into the fabric. Well, okay, so these two people, I'm assuming one was in a suit. He's the one holding the flower. And then there was a woman who had still very vibrant red hair and she was dressed in all black. And it was, vintage clothing from the like 1880s. So like she was one of the first bodies there and looked fucking basically alive.

Ew, ew, ew, ew, ew. Would you rather touch that body or just just bones? If I look like me, but I'm coming back up. No, I think it's the fact that it's you. Like I would touch another. I know. No, I think I would touch because I would feel like, oh, that's invasive. Like I'm touching through your whole body.

I'm literally begging for it. But like, okay. Oh my God. I don't know. it's now I'm reevaluating everything. Just know that if, if like you ever, ever in a situation where you had to, even if you didn't want to, know that I'm giggling the whole time.

Know that you're making, and you're fucking putting a worm in your own eye to scare me. You're like, you're trying to make it so much worse. No. If I really truly had to, yes, I would touch your skeleton, but I don't want to. I do know what you mean, though. It's kind of like how like a live show I would prefer people I don't know to be there. Yeah, it feels like more fake.

Like I'm like, oh, I'll touch a skeleton, but it's like, Oh, I don't know who that was and I've like severed ties. But if I did your skeleton, I'm like, ah. No, I know what you mean? It's just weird. It feels, it feels invasive. No, I know I mean because I would also, like if I, hopefully not, like saw like a body, if I didn't have an emotional attachment to it, it'd be a lot easier to walk away from that.

Exactly. Exactly. That's. Yeah. It feels like a little more like too real. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, it doesn't feel real because it's, you've invented a cartoon scenario.

But, you know, in the case where I do have to redress your. naked skeleton. I'll reconsider. I'll think about it. And I think I'll try. You could pay someone else to do it. I just need you to be in charge of it. Oh, I thought it was like, dare you. I don't need you to hold me while you dress me. How about that? I thought like it was just like to touch the bones. And that was the whole thing. Okay, I know I can handle it. I can handle it. I'll do a whole ceremony. I will set up an entire ceremony. You know that. I promise. Okay. That's fine. Yeah, just afford the best. That's all I need to do. As long as I don't have to touch your, your rotting, corpse, then someone else can handle it. And if you had to do it with your own hands, you're allowed to say,

ew, it, oh, it was the whole time. I won't be, okay, okay, as long as you're not going to be offended from the beyond. No, no, no. I would be like, I get it. That's crazy. But, like, it's so appreciative. Okay, good, good, good, then I can, then I can, then I can, it's the thought that counts.

That's fine. I can agree to that then. Sick. Um, okay, so, now to round this out, this is where I tell you. So as we know it, there's about 50 bodies that were once buried here. and one of them being this randomly well-preserved woman in a full black vintage outfit. And she was one of the bodies that the construction workers didn't want anyone messing with.

And so they reburied her down by the lagoon. Yeah, they had good intuition because you know, you don't mess with that. Like, you don't make her into the highway. Oh, a bad thing would happen if you turn her into a freeway, my friend. She'd be a little. She's like, I somehow like beat the odds and still look this damn good a whole century later and you're going to make me a road. myself and you built a fucking freeway ramp. I can't.

Honestly, maybe they like had just as shitty values as they're like, their project manager and they were willing to like just toss the bodies in a burlap sack. But then they saw they were like oddly preserved and they were like, this feels like a curse if we don't treat this well. The universe was like actually it's not even worth it. You've got to be careful here.

Yeah. Well, okay. So 50 bodies are, were once buried here, probably more still exists and they just haven't hit, you know, broken ground yet. But not only were they buried here, but all, most if not all,

were all unceremoniously relocated without any family consent, without any knowledge of it. And then on the property, they built the hungry hunter steakhouse, which is now known as the hunter steakhouse. Okay, okay, interesting. And so this is known as a very haunted restaurant

in San Diego area. Oh, I can only imagine. It does have a plaque on the building commemorating the bodies that were found on the property, so at least we're acknowledging it. But that's like the only proof anywhere of us acknowledging it. I mean, what are you going to do? Nothing, I guess. Put a plaque up.

So most of the activities on the second floor, but throughout all the building, the doors slam open and shut by themselves. People hear loud boots walking around. Objects move. There are power surges where lights are flickering and the electricity goes out for no reason. chandeliers, which I spelled as chandlers. Oh, fun. Chandeliers swing on their own.

There are windows upstairs that, first of all, have never been opened, and people constantly feel drawn to stare out of. Ew. Hate that. Things throw themselves across the shelves. Wine bottles rearrange themselves. The fridge will lock itself shut. This one's for you. People say if they see a cowboy sitting at the end of the bar.

Well, well, well. Well, well, well, I know where Christine will be sitting. Fancy meeting you here at this haunted steakhouse by the seat. Like, if it had to be haunted, it had to be you. And then the bar daughter is like, she's been waiting here every day for six years for somebody. She's just desperate. She's unwell. Apparitions are seen moving around by the fireplace.

So that can be a full body. That could be a face coming out of like the chimney area. Oh, my gosh. There are like vague mists that come out, but there's something about the fireplace. It feels like a portal, you know? Like that gives very portal energy, the fact that like different shapes and things are coming out of the fireplace of all things. That's exactly right. That is what one of the sources talked about.

Oh, excellent. A woman is seen in the storage area as well as near the stairs. And get this, she is seen an all black in 1800s vintage clothing. I was about to ask. Holy shit. So I don't know if it is for sure the same woman that they found. Or there's just multiple, right. It could very, very good point.

It could be any other woman in vintage black clothing. But, I mean, that would make it fun. But I would say also, like, this is the most recognizable ghost you have an opportunity to, like, compare and contrast with. Like, if her, how did no one take a picture in the 70s of this perfectly preserved corpse? You know somebody did, and it's in someone's grandpa's photo box in the attic. You got to go look, folks. That's why you got to be nosy. Please, just for me.

I love being nosy. I just love it. Oh, my God. I'll never stop being nosy. There's probably a construction worker grandpa who took a photo and they were like, don't leak this anywhere. And they just put it in their stuff. Yeah, something like that. It had to.

But I wish that existed purely for science. So that way, we had something to compare this woman to. So we would know if it was the same woman. I want to know for science. Everyone start digging in your grandpa's addicts immediately, please. So. Immediately. People also claim to feel a hostile male presence who has given intelligent EVP responses.

One of them was get out. Yikes. Very intelligent. Very intelligent. People also hear banging from the attic. The alarm system goes off at night by itself. Women hear someone whistling at them, and they also feel something touching them

and playing with their hair. The credit card machine. I know, I can't stand it. It gives me, like, hebi-jibis. Like, like more or less than playing with my skeleton. Literally, as you could tell, nothing gives me more hebi-jee-gb-G-B-G-Z then the idea of playing with your skeleton. Thank you.

Okay. Thanks. You know what freaks me out? remember earlier when you said your brother gets you hot and bothered. Hey! First of all, you are misquoting me. Slander. Second of all, that was off the record.

That was before we started recording. Thank God. Off the record. No, I said that and then I said, oh, my God, that's not what I meant. I meant I'm hot. I'm annoyed. And it really bothers me. And you know what else?

And you know what else? I learned that the hard way in about sophomore year of college. And it was incredibly embarrassing, okay? And I remember the moment I found out. I don't even remember what I said, but I said hot and bothered. And somebody in the room had to be like, Christy. That's awful. Yeah, it was.

And I was talking about something that was not meant, shouldn't have been in that context. Like about your brother again or what? I mean, like maybe, but it was probably more like we were in class. And they were like that you can't say that we're in a class. And that's a professor. And that's like you can't say that. I just watched a below deck episode where the, I, I think she was French, but she clearly spoke another language before English, and she was trying to say, I'm excited about something.

And, like, oh, I'm excited to, like, be the bartender this time around. And she, like, told her the person in charge of where she's like, oh, I'm really horny about this. It's like, that's the vibe. It's like, is that not the phrase? You know, it feels very French. The other person was like, nope, wrong word. Wrong word. Start over. No, to defend Christine, she said, God, he just gets me so. Nope. Okay, no, that's not what I say.

How did you phrase it? At the end, you ended it with, oh, nope, I didn't mean to like that. Okay, it wasn't even I said, I said, I have this other microphone here and I was using the wrong one. That's right. That's right. It doesn't matter. I did not. As I said it trying to quote you, I knew it was off.

I knew it was off. But it got me going. It really made my day to. Yeah, I knew. Oh, man, I should have known. I should have known to come back. It's okay. It was very funny. I kind of wish it had been recorded, so it needed to be sent here. I can't believe it. Okay, so then the last thing I'm going to say is that apparently the credit card machine at this place goes nuts and just freaks out by itself.

People hear their names being called all the time when they're alone in the building. And then there's a photo I want to show you, which is one of the servers. It's you show me. Okay, you better tell me what it is. I'm gorgeous. I'm so afraid of any photographic evidence of this place. I will say I have earned your skepticism. So, it's a, it said server, but it feels like this is someone who, like, was actually a customer here, maybe both. There's a picture of a woman at the table and there's a figure behind her, but nobody was behind her when the picture was taken. So I'm sending you that picture right now. It's like a straight up person, bro. It's like crazy.

Absolutely not for that. No. Absolutely not even a little bit for any of this. It's crazy. I mean, that looks like... great out Matilda accidentally got out of her bed in the middle of the night and like stumbled into the parlor where we're playing a card game and everyone's like oh that's just getting back to bed it really does look like um she looks like they're in like like in a gown like a like a like a night

gown she also looks like she's going to stab me i'm so afraid of her holy shit it does look like right before like in a horror movie where the camera would like focus in on the other person it's just a blurry figure and the person at the table is just have a a great old time with an A1 and a Long Island ice team. She has no idea. No idea. Anyway, so that is the Buonovic Cemetery and the Hunter State House. That was fucking terrifying.

Why am I so scared of that? I don't know. I don't know. I think you're right that it had some sort of like, I don't know why it felt personal for some reason. Yeah, it feels a little like weird and like I wonder what's going on with these people that are, and there's probably more people down there. Well, the plaque even says that there's like, there's probably other.

that reside right here. To place says that? Holy shit. There's probably other ones. There's probably other ones. I mean, if you accidentally stumped, there was a quote from like Captain Marvel, which like, even though that movie came out much later after a bunch of other superhero movies, it was the prequel.

Like it was a prequel that was filmed. Right. You know what you find out is that when they discovered Captain Marvel, they said like, there's got to be others like her. We weren't even looking for her and we found her. And then because of that, they go. seeking out all these other super people and create the Avengers. Oh.

And in my mind, it's a much sadder version of that where they're like, we weren't even looking for any bodies and we found 52. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now you know that there has to be. It can't be the end of it. Yeah. Hundreds here. There has to be so many.

At that point, I would just, I mean, part, I mean, I wouldn't because it'd be like just disrespecting all the other bodies. But part of me would just be like, let's just scrape the whole land clean. Like, what the hell is here? The grading. Suddenly, you know all about land grading. You're going to grade the whole cliffs. side off. You're right. Yeah, I don't know what I was wrong of me. I certainly wouldn't build a

steakhouse there. I'll tell you that. I like that you're like, I'll throw the whole thing into the ocean, but I wouldn't build a building on top of it. That would be crazy. That feels wrong. Yeah, no. Yeah. I am, I would just honestly just leave it the fuck alone. As soon as you find out that it was once a burial ground, why was anyone touching it? Because it's a fucking ace piece of property. Look around. It was. I mean, it's a beautiful piece of property, I think. I mean, I mean, I'm not saying that's right. I'm just saying why. probably, you know? No, it makes sense why someone decided to do it.

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Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com slash disclosures for details. We recently went through our bathroom stuff. It's always so scary. Trying to do a declutter. Yeah, there's nothing scarier than drawers. You just never know what you're going to find in there. Sticky. Sticky. Sticky, slimy, things explode. You know, I was like, Alison, you cannot keep all of this. And she said, fine, fine, I'll get rid of everything, but I'm not going to get rid of the OCEA. I'm not getting rid of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, so I have mine actually on my counter because they come in these beautiful, like, glass little, and I love, like, a pump bottle. Sheik, sheik. Oh, it's so chic. It's so chic. And they have this, this is what I've wanted, and I feel like I didn't know how to put it into words, but they have this hyleronic body serum. And after I take a shower, I put it on, and it, like, helps so much with the

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Oseas hyalronic body serum is multi-layer Hylaronic powered hydration for the entire body and right now we have a special discount just for you. Get 10% off your first order sitewide with code drink at Ocea Malibu.com. Okay, hello everyone. We're back from Yappy Hour. I'm just like fucking blew my mind with that storytelling of,

just a little old thing about like solving a fucking legacy mystery of the family like being led beyond the grave. I mean, come on. You make it sound a lot more. more magical than it. No, it's fucking crazy. I mean, you said a matter of fact, but I think it's pretty darn, it's pretty darn cool folks. Um, anyway, so I'm going to tell you a true crime case today. This is unfortunately the story of the murder of Jody Loomis. And it begins in the 70s, August 23rd, 1972 when we're in Snohomish County, Washington, which is on the Puget Sound. Um, I imagine you know

more about that than I do. Um, because of Washington. Yeah, the entire area, I don't know. It says It's right north of Seattle. I'll tell you whenever I'm visiting my family on the highway, there are signs that direct me towards things that say Puget. Okay. A Puget sound. I mean. I know nothing else. I listen to Death Cap for Cutie.

So, you know, I get the vibe, right? Perfect. So today, 68% of Snohomish County is forested land. And at the time, much of the area was rural farmland. Walter Morris. Oh, my God. I'm telling you. Maybe that's the M.

Walter M. Oh! You got to write that down. Now that would be something else, brother. I'm literally writing Walter Morris down. And then if I ever stumble across it, that'll blow my clock in mind. Write down episode 490 just so you're not like, what the fuck is this? Yeah.

Like, because otherwise you'd be like, what the fuck? 4. Okay, perfect. Whoa, that would be weird. But yeah, Walter again. Remember we had Walter for a while, like stalking us on the show? There's always a Walter amongst us. Wow.

So Walter Morris and Kathy Gogle were out in the woods to practice shooting. and on their way they had to stop because there was a large log blocking the road. So they get out of the car to move the tree and when they look into the woods, they notice a body lying on the ground. When they approached to see if this woman is okay, she doesn't respond. And obviously they can tell immediately something terrible has happened to her. She was lying on her back wearing a pair of boots, long socks and underwear. Her blue jeans and other clothes had been removed and scattered on the ground around her. the couple noted a terrible wound on the side of her head, but she was still breathing.

So there was no way to call for help and leaving one person behind while the other went for help would have been dangerous because like if somebody had attacked this woman, they could still be in the woods like hiding about a tree or they could come back. So instead they carried her to the car, put her in the passenger seat and rushed to the nearest hospital. And while one of them drove the other one, the other one held the woman's head upright to try and keep her airway open. Oh my God. That's how far gone she was. At the hospital, there was no way to identify the young woman. She didn't have an ID on her or any other personal belongings aside from her clothing. Now we cut back to hours earlier when 20-year-old Jody Loomis left home to ride her horse,

which was stabled on a nearby property four miles away. she was a middle child of three and she lived at home in Bothel. Everything pronounced there differently than I think it is. I agree. Same with like the Midwest. Yes, like Versailles. Yeah. Good old Versailles.

Yeah. So hopefully I'm saying that right, Bothel. If not, please forgive me. Washington with her parents, Rosemary and John Sr. She had one younger sister named Jana and a fiancee named Jim, whom her family really loved. And Jana actually considered Jim an older. brother, so really part of the family. Her 27-year-old brother, John, was married and was kind of like

living off with his own family. That day, Jody borrowed 12-year-old Jana's boots, her little sister's boots, and left for the stable on a bike. Jody, at this point, was an adult, and her parents were fairly relaxed. They just kind of wanted her home by dark, and they're out in, like, rural area, you know, like they'd just let her go be with her horse and stuff. And it'd never been a problem before, But when evening came around, you know, darkness falls. Jody is not home. And immediately her parents are very concerned. Before she had left the house, it was family rules that you had to have a dime on you for the pay phone in case something happened.

And that was standard. And she did have the dime confirmed it. And she left. So having heard nothing long after dark, her family's freaking the fuck out. They start calling friends, hospitals, finally the police to report her missing. That's so horrible. Even like back to, you have to imagine you're like hoping that she dropped the coin or used the diamond on something else at some point.

Totally. Totally. And like got lost or, yeah. Oh my God. I mean, just the, just the dread. I can't imagine we're just so lucky in some ways that like just I can't imagine. It's just a totally different world. Yeah.

I can't imagine not having like find my. Not being, just you just have to hope that people are fine. You just have to hope that people are fine. are. Yeah, now you can be like, oh, they're at the grocery store on Find My Friends or whatever. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's so. Um, yeah. So after they call the police, the police show up at the door. And yeah, you don't like to see that. So the police arrive at the Loomis home to tell them they believe their daughter had been brought to the hospital earlier that day, grievously wounded and had since passed away. Um, they believe in the car, um, on the way to the hospital that that's where she died, which is just

terribly sad. When she was being like held up to breathe. Yeah, when she was like being taken to the hospital. So they had to have John Sr. the dad go to the hospital to confirm whether this was his daughter. So Jana later recalled the little sister in an interview that her mother collapsed on the floor. The whole family was horrified. Like she just went out to ride her horses. She always did. And now she was dead. Jody was positively identified in the hospital by her father. And shortly after her death, The coroner ruled that Jody had been raped and that she had been killed by a gunshot wound to the head. Jesus. Yes.

Fired from a 22 caliber handgun. So just in cold blood. Because Jody was in her boots with one tied and the other untied and she seemed to have been shot from like an upper angle, they think that this attacker had raped her. And then as she was putting her shoes back on had shot her. Like made her thing for a second like, now you can go put your stuff on. Oh, my God.

I know. It's a really horrendous detail. Detectives had bagged Jody's boots as evidence and collected seminal fluid from her underwear, but, you know, this was pre-DNA technology. So they had almost nothing to go on forensically, especially this had been outside, you know. Instead, they focused immediately on witnesses, anyone who might have had the opportunity to kill Jody that day. They, of course, questioned the fiancé Jim, but he was at work.

and he worked at the hospital where she was brought. Oh, my God. Yeah. And he didn't even know she was there until he was on shift and he didn't know she was there until she had already passed. Just mind-boggling. Detectives then began questioning the Rice family. They were the ones who rented the more than 1,000-acre property where Jody's horse was

stable and where she was attacked and abandoned. So when police arrived on the property, 12-year-old Alan Rice was outside cutting wood with his father, Ken Rice. They were both questioned. Of course, both denied having anything to do with Jody. You would, wouldn't you, you know? Just saying doesn't convince me it much. Yeah, I feel like you have to assume everyone's going to say I didn't do it. Right.

Like what's this man's word over anybody? It's a real diamond in the rough when someone goes, yep, you found me. Yeah, seriously. it's like yeah okay sure can whatever um i don't know it just bothers me anyway so they were like no we had nothing to do with any of it um and we had no knowledge of her presence on the property now kendra rice her that's her maiden name uh was 14 years old she has since changed her name to maturo or makoro she was 14 years old at the time and ran an outdoor fruit stand farther out on a busier road where she sold produce that her family grew on the farm.

And she remembered seeing a young blonde woman go by on a bike and then later two men in a station wagon. So detectives questioned a group of men who sometimes met on the property. That also went nowhere, though. Now near the trail where she was killed, they discovered Jody's bike and a dime nearby. Oh, shit. What? I mean, okay.

I'm, I know how this goes. This doesn't go well. I would like to think in that moment, though, I was hopeful that, like, everyone's got coins back then. Like, that it could be any coin. Wait, what? We found a dime next to the, you said a shoe or a sock? Next to her bike. Oh, next to her bike.

But I would say, like, there was, like, loose change everywhere all the time back then. So, like, hopefully it's not her dime. Like, hopefully it's just like. Well, I mean, it, it, what? Well. It ends up being her dime. I don't, wait, why would it matter, though? Or would it matter?

Like, at the time, I would be. if I were her parents or something I would be like hopeful that maybe it wasn't her dime as like more added evidence. Like okay they found her bike next to coins. Oh well they already have her bot. I mean she's already dead. Yep.

You're totally right. Never fucking mine. I don't know why I was. I was like I feel like it's too late for any sort of. And like I was literally right here when you told me that like her dad had to go like discovered the body and everything. I think I just blacked that out. No, that's okay.

Okay. No, that does make more sense why you will. would not want it to be the coin, yes. Right. No, okay. Now I'm totally. Unfortunately, yeah, near where she was killed, they discovered her bike and a dime, presumably the one that she had brought with her.

But they never found the horse bridle that she had taken to the stable. So nobody knows what happened to that. Upon discovering a red jacket in the woods that belonged to the father, Ken Rice, he was again questioned. But this time he admitted to having seen Jody on her bicycle, which made him the last known witness to see her alive. And he said he'd also seen these two hippieish men in the station wagon that his daughter had also described and that he'd heard motorcycles in the area. But he did maintain that he had not heard any gunshots and that even if he had people were shooting on the property regularly.

So it wouldn't have necessarily raised an alarm. And at this point, even though they found her like his jacket with her did. So they found the jacket on the thousand acre property like in the woods. But it wasn't like where she was attacked or anything like. that it was just like in the general vicinity of the woods would that be um a ding ding ding for you or would that be like oh that's weird for me like as a like if you were if you discovered that because i feel like i would still think like well that doesn't i mean if it's his land i don't think it's that weird yeah okay that's what they were just combing the woods again and they were like

hey we found your jacket so they questioned him again but the fact that he changed his story this time and said i did actually see her is like what was sure alarming you know um and then confirming that he also saw two people or saying he saw two people in a station wagon. And very quickly they like kind of ran out of any evidence and the trail went cold. Poor Jana, the little sister, was left with like no answers. And she'd always thought of Jody as like her big, strong older sister, right? So now it's like how could somebody not only hurt her but like kill her? And we just don't even know who it is.

Jody had been a lover of the outdoors, animals, people. Like she had been very vocal about standing up for like the underdog. So at one point like people, she saw someone shooting pigeons just for fun and she like intervened, you know. And she had a very like a personality of authority is how Janna described it. And so then when she just winds up leaving the house for a few hours and is dead, it was like such a shock to her system. And she even when she intervened with that person shooting the pigeons, she actually brought one of the wounded pigeons home and rehabilitated it.

Oh, that's so sad. Oh my God. I know. She was also an artist. She sold her carvings at local shops. And Jana said she was everything as an older sister that Jana strived to be as a person. And that just got to me. And now suddenly she, her little sister, Jana and her best friend Pat are like in this like void of her. absence and no answers, no closure. In the years following Jody's killing, there were several times

detectives did follow up on tips. They went entertaining multiple possibilities, but everything kind of like faltered out. One of the tips they investigated was a motorcycle gang called the Reaper, the Reaper's Roadmen, and I'm not laughing at them. Please, I'm so scared. They're like, first of all, they're listening to our show and then they take the cigar out of their mouth and go, what the hell did you call us? I'm like, I'm so scared. The motorcycle gang, the Reaper's Roadmen,

and they're no joke. One of the roadmen apparently reported to police that other roadmen had described the rape and murder of a young woman with a 10-speed bike, and it sounded like Jody's story, so he reported this. Nope, apparently just another story.

Jesus. Either another story or another victim or whatever. Exactly, exactly. one of the roadman had actually shot who was talking about this this attack this rape had actually shot aimlessly at a passing train and had struck the conductor and his weapon was a 22 caliber pistol which is the same that was used to murder Jody so they were like okay there is some substantive stuff here but upon FBI analysis it was not the murder weapon for a minute they thought maybe it was Ted Bundy but he was in a different part of the country and you

Years would just pass. And the Loomis family preserved Jody's room just as it was when she died, which always is so eerie and haunting and tragic to me. I think I would do the exact same thing, though. I wouldn't know how to touch anything. It's like a memorial. Yeah, I wouldn't either. So, I mean, I don't know what I would do.

But like, yeah, I imagine I would probably do something similar. Let's see. Years passed. Her death haunted them as well as the wider community because the killer was never caught. it also haunted, well, at the time, it also haunted Kendra Rice, nay Rice, who was certain that her brother Alan, the 12-year-old at the time, could not have been involved. But in the back of her mind, she had this nagging thought that her dad may have been capable of something so horrible. That's horrific. I mean, any, yeah, yeah.

I totally believe her that there must have been signs for her to think that. But also, I imagine if there was a family tragedy like this, it does make you. question everybody all of a sudden. You're like, yes. Well, here's you here's your answer. He'd made comments about women in her childhood, especially while watching TV and said, um, and said, she said in an interview that because of what she had personally experienced at his hand, she could not be sure that he wasn't involved. Um, her father sexually abused her and her sisters. Um, they used to padlock their bedroom doors. The dad used to padlock their bedroom doors. Um, and so, you, You know, she's like, well, he wasn't, he treated me this way.

Like, who's to say that he didn't do this to someone else? And something even worse and killed her. Okay, so this says here, they'd love to see the product on screen. But mudwater, unfortunately, I use in my kitchen because it's become part of my routine. I'm just going to hope that you trust me that mudwater has become one of my favorite little routines. And they sent along like a little froth or fomer thing. And I make like this nice little, oh my God. I know it's called mud water folks, but it is like the most sueses.

little ritual I have now. It's, it's like caffeine, but like without that crazy buzz. I mean, you were just saying that like you realized you have been taking in a lot of sugar. And so much caffeine, like because when I quit drinking, totally. It was like I reverted to that. And so mudwater like came in right at the exact perfect time. So now instead of like a second cup of coffee, I'll drink my mudwater. And because they gave the starter kit, I sent the starter kit my way, it's super easy. It's like the OG. It's like an original chai chocolate. It's so delicious and lovely. I'm just, I'm really, I'm feeling it. They have five, I'm with it. Four flavors. They have chai chocolate. They have coffee, matcha and turmeric. I know Allison would go for the turmeric. No matter what your flavor is,

you know, give it a shot. Get ready to make the switch to cleaner energy. Go to mudwater. That's M-U-D-W-T-R.com slash drink and grab the starter kit, use code drink, and you'll get 43% off. The frother alone is worth it. It's true. That's right. Up to four. 43% off with code drink at MUDWTR.com. After your purchase, they'll ask how you found them. Please show your support and let them know we sent you. So Kendra continued following the case, feeling unable to let it go. And because it was like on her property, like you said, like it's also just so tied to her own family lore at this point.

Yeah. And it seemed like for decades that nobody would get any answers. But in 2005, and it's like not. This is also, I just have so many question marks. In 2005, the Loomis family received a phone call informing them that a new cold case unit was reviewing the case. It had been 32 years by this point. And they were confident because they had this seminal fluid from her underwear. They were confident that they could use DNA technology now to lead them to a suspect.

Then the family immediately got a call that, oh, oops, they've actually lost all the evidence. So we don't even have it. And I'm like, could we have waited a minute to make sure we fucking have the evidence? You get my hopes up. Yeah. It's like, why would you even say we have this like substantial collection of it? I mean, I'm not like blaming that. I'm sure there was just a reason for how it was off.

I mean, if you're this mad, imagine the parents being. I mean, right. Exactly. Like, talk about a fucking letdown, you know. I mean, it's just crushing. They were like completely destroyed. Right. And because they like their hope, it's just like you're being strung along, you know.

So three years later in 2008, they were able to actually recover DNA from fluids on Jody's left boot. so they were able to find more evidence. The DNA was submitted to CODIS, but there was no match, which means that whoever had done this had not been caught for anything in all this time, you know, and their DNA had not been entered into the system.

And Jana said at this point, it was so devastating because she didn't know if she'd ever see the face of the person who murdered her sister. She kept holding on and waiting for any break in the case. There was a tip about the stable owner where the horse was kept. And his wife had been one of Jody's friends,

but he had made like upsetting sexual comments to Jody, enough that her father had actually gone over there and confronted the man. Andy had no alibi. But when they did a DNA test on this now elderly man, he was ruled out. They again asked Ken and Alan Rice and both submitted DNA samples,

but neither of them matched. So Kendra was like relieved to be rid of the anxiety that her father had done this. and was able to let that go finally, thankfully. But the family, of course, was still waiting for answers at this point. So detectives began filing warrants and just taking DNA from everyone ever considered in the case down to individual members of the Reaper's Roadmen. In 2018, it had been 46 years since Jody was murdered,

and the coroner, the original detectives on the case, all of them had since died. But Jody's mother, Rosemary, was still alive. and Jana was caring for her in her old age, hoping that maybe there was a chance, like, right before, you know, in the last few years of life. And then as the sister being like, this is the last chance to, like, give her some peace. So it was that year when detectives on Jody's case learned about our favorite forensic genealogy,

which, of course, we've talked about a lot on the podcast. He sent the DNA profile to a genetic genealogist who spent, as M was even talking about, doing the mystery work, spent 58 hours in three days, which like, it takes somebody with our effed up brains to do shit like that. But it really, it goes a long way. When you get in that zone and it's like 50 hours and three days, like, hello, we know what that is. Okay. Spent 58 hours in three days digging for suspects led to a trail of seven children, the Miller family, six sons, one daughter. Unfortunately, not one son and six daughters would have made it easier to narrow down.

the seminal fluid, but anyway, the investigative team believed one of the sons was Jody's killer. That's how close the match was. Holy crap. And when they, I know, I can't believe it. When they looked into the family, they discovered that one of the brothers, 77-year-old Terence Miller, had a criminal history and he had been arrested for sexual crimes against children, but he was free to go as long as he completed counseling. I can't.

Okay. I can't. So he was all at this point, or at seven, 77. I was trying to think, like, would it even be worth it for him to go to jail? But yeah, I think 77. He still has a lot of time that he could deal with the jail. Oh, I'm so glad you said that. Just wait a moment. Okay. Because that, wow, yeah, you're really, really psychic today. Um, so he was also accused of sexually abusing his own children and then his grandchildren. Um, certain that Terrence was Jody's killer, investigators began to follow him, a la Golden State killer waiting for him to leave his DNA somewhere. Like he was definitely. in death this point to attack again. Well, no, no, they were looking for his DNA. I get it.

I'm sorry. I should shut the fuck up, actually. That's like very criminal minds. They're like, wait. They're like planting like like like waiting for him to plot again. You just meant like for them, for him just leave DNA somewhere. To leave DNA somewhere. Yeah.

Like when the Golden State Code, they went through his trash and all that. So they got that opportunity. August 29, 2018 when he drank coffee in a casino through the cup in the trash. Police swoop that bad boy up. Sent it to be tested. fucking ding-dong match confirmed. Jana told her mother the update and that investigators were so close to catching the man

who killed Jody and they now knew who it was and Rosemary was beaming all night long. Oh, good. I know. So after building the case against Terrence for months, which was difficult because the original corner and detectives were dead and couldn't be brought to the stand, obviously, unless, no, I'm just kidding.

Authorities announced his arrest in 2019, which was 47 years after Jody's murder. And this was a shock because he was now living in Edmonds, Washington, which was like really close to what he had done almost 50 years ago. That's crazy. The lead sheriff's brother and his brother's wife had been on the same bowling team for six years. Yeah. Like this was like someone, like I talk about pillar of the fucking community bullshit. Which part of you wonders like is it just because it was a small town or is it like was he kind of doing the whole like you always run back to the scene of the crime?

And was he like trying to kind of know. people who were on the case to hear. I mean, it seems like he just kind of hung around the area. But I don't know. Yeah, you don't know. It's so sinister, though, because if I committed anything that could put me in jail, I would be on the other side of the country. I would have left the country.

He's literally been gone to counseling for sexually assaulting his own children, grandchildren. So I'm like, it seems like he's kind of free to do whatever he wants. It feels like. But, yeah, so finally, they, people were shocked. I guess. People are always shocked, you know. It's just something. 78-year-old Terrence pleaded not guilty. Wow, big of him to one charge of first-degree murder. And he gathered his assets to make the nearly $1 million bail. And he was allowed to go home to take care of his wife, who had suffered a stroke.

So the trial commenced in October of 2020. Jana recalled Terrence being stoic throughout, but she looked him in the eyes. She said, when you're looking at someone you think murdered your sister, you're going to look them right in the eyes. And she said that on the stand. during the trial it was very surreal because jan was able jana was able to see her boots in person for the first time oh my god 50 years after loaning them to her big sister that day to go ride horses it's just like wow um the prosecution made their closing arguments on friday november 6th the jury reconvened monday november 9th and guilty guilty verdict but he would not be imprisoned for what he did because that morning he had died by suicide Shut the fuck up. He had shot himself with the same type of gun he had used against Jody, 22 caliber pistol.

And the jury was not informed because they wanted like a pure deliberation and they wanted the answer. And so Terrence's attorney was like, well, no, like, uh-uh. And they were like, well, no, whether he's alive or not. Doesn't diminish the verdict. They had the evidence that they had. And. And. Yeah.

So, yeah, at least there was the verdict, but... At least he was found guilty, I guess. I know, I know. Suffering zero percent for it. Yeah, the defense accused Walter Morris, one of the people, remember Walter? One of the people who had discovered Jody in the woods of being involved because his story about the day had changed with confusion over whether he and Kathy were like going shooting or picking berries.

And she said, death seemed preferable to letting a jury decide a verdict on. untainted evidence. This is a terrible tragedy that began with Jody Loomis' death and is compounded by an innocent man taking his own life. But the prosecution was like, no, it's not the guy who was going berry picking. It was this fucking monster. Okay. Jody's family was like happy about the answer, but also like, like you said, frustrated. Jody's older brother, John said he got away with it for 48 years. I was so glad they finally got him. Justice was almost done. And Janice said that after the conviction, she felt like she could finally breathe. She had not ridden horses for years since Jody's death. And she began riding horses again with her own daughter. And she just felt like a bit of a

weight lifted. And she said, I miss her for all my years that I had with her and for all the years that I didn't have with her. And that is the story of Jody Loomis. Just pretty tragic. It's a, yeah. that's a i'm glad that they found the guy and like yeah only got closure like i can't be mad about and i hope it fucking scares the shit out of every other motherfucker who's out there as a grandfather it really is one of those bowling league you fuck you know well it's one of those cases just in in the timeline of of things that like it sounds like it all started before dna was um something that he even had to consider yep right but then they're shaking in their fucking boots now all these fuckers, you know.

Then again, I would also be terrified of ever leaving my DNA anywhere all of a sudden. They're not terrified. They're monsters. It's crazy that they're just so confident in all of this. Just brazen. It's crazy. I mean, and like, the sad fucked up part, too, is like, he was kind of right for a long time. He got away with it for a long time.

Like, yeah. It's still horrible. He's going to be paying some karmic justice. Good storytelling. I say that every time. There's no. no other positivity I can give, but. Well, thank you.

I'm feeling super hot and bothered by this weather. I know. Shut up. I'm sorry. I don't know why I brought it up. I just really, it was so silly and no one else got to hear it. And I just felt like,

you really were disappointed. We weren't recording when I said it. It was so funny. It really made my day. Oh my God. It was like the first thing I said after not seeing you for two weeks. I knew. I knew what you meant.

I knew what you meant, but it just came up. And it was like coming out of my mouth and I went, this is not what I was going for anyway. It really. It really tickled me. I just wanted everyone else also be tickled. Okay. Well, thank you for listening to our podcast. You can find us every Sunday or the first of the month for a listener's episode. And you can check us out at ATWW podcast or and that's why I drink.com. And that's why we drink.