And That's Why We Drink - E491 Medical Melodrama and a Shark Shanctuary

Episode Date: July 26, 2026

Lucky Episode number 491 is here and we’re blaming the worms for our tummy troubles. Today Em tells us the spooky story of the Olive Hill Poltergeist and its wild paranormal activity. Then Christine covers the mystery of the Yuba County Five, which leaves us with more questions than answers. And does anyone even say “cell phone” anymore? …and that’s why we drink!Photo Links:The Yuba County FiveWant to listen ad-free? Join our Certified Yapper tier for $10/month on Patreon! Ad-free episodes starting at E469 at: http://patreon.com/ATWWDPodcast !Catch our bonus Yappy Hour intermissions on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3L28lDw or subscribe on Patreon!___________________Save 20% off Honeylove by going to https://honeylove.com/DRINK ! #honeylovepodGet $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping at https://nutrafol.com with promo code DRINK.Go to https://hellobatch.com/drink and use code DRINK at checkout for 30% off sitewide!Save time and meet great candidates sooner with ZipRecruiter—try it for FREE at https://ziprecruiter.com/drink .Go to https://tryfirstleaf.com/DRINK to get 50% off your first box plus free shipping for a year.Explore coverage at https://www.aspcapetinsurance.com/DRINK . The ASPCA® is not an insurer and is not engaged in the business of insurance Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Hulu original series Furious is coming to Disney Plus, starring Emmy Rossum. Furious follows FBI agent Alice Black on the hunt for a mysterious and calculating serial killer. Both walk their own paths toward justice, and as their lives start to intertwine, the line between right and wrong begins to blur. Don't miss the three-episode premiere of the Hulu original series Furious on July 27th, only on Hulu on Disney Plus. Volvo is leaving the chaos of rush hour outside. Start by settling into your saddle-stitched Napa Leather seats.

Notice the open space around you, uncuttered, elegant, intentional, warm ambient light, and natural wood details to ground you. This is Volvo's Scandinavian sanctuary for every journey. Learn more at VolvoCars.caps.caultional features mentioned. episode is sponsored by the ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program as a frequent goer of the dog park.

I have seen some scary things happen to the dog park. Luckily not to my dog. Although very recently we had our first scare, he ended up stepping on a bee and got stung. But I was absolutely panicked as a first time dog parent who has absolutely infantilized my little puppy dog. In a moment like that, you really

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Insurance is underwritten by either Independence American Insurance Company or United States Fire Insurance Company and produced by PTZ Insurance Agency Limited. The ASPCA is not insurer and is not engaged in the business of insurance. My watch just said, you've achieved, you've reached your stand goal. and I'm like very actively sitting on camera.

There's like visible proof that I'm not standing. And my watch just said, you've done it. Your watch is like, you go, girl. Yeah, I think sometimes it's just like been prompted to give me little like pep talks. That's honestly, maybe that's why I need to start wearing a watch just to have someone say something nice about me every now. To just, yeah, improve boost morale, you know. Oh, Christine, what are you doing this? It's Monday.

I yes everybody obviously something's wrong with my voice um but we don't notice it anymore I feel like I heard it at first and now it's like gone for me um I can notice it I think it's probably just me that's having the the immediate warming to the voice but I think like I don't know I think people will like it thank you I'm just I we might as well address it before everyone's like are you sick I don't know what I am but um this just began like two days ago a day ago and it's not ending. So we're all just taking it for a ride. Yeah, we're all just going to see what, see where it takes us, you know? Yeah, yeah. Where the one takes us, where your breath takes us. Oh, yes, my, my breath. That's right. Must be nice. Let's talk about my breath. Well, are you

drinking anything? Because you should be lubricating that throat if you do have this laryngitis you speak of. Not that I've ever had. I clearly don't know anything about laryngitis because I went, oh, no, doesn't that hurt. And M said, no, it doesn't hurt. I think my understanding is that laryngitis is just like the fancy word for you're losing your voice. And bronchitis is when you're like coughing, which leads to you losing your voice. I mean, I believe you. So I clearly don't know much of anything. But what are you licking?

Well, first you mentioned my breath and I thought I should show you my licking. I didn't know that I would just kind of get that wasn't meant to be like an alleyoop into something worse. It was meant to be more like, we've reached the edge. Now let's come back. Don't even something worse. I'm still not over you not taking care of my skeleton when I'm gone. I literally posted that.

And I was like, am I really the asshole? And then people were like, yes. And I was like, oh. Were they really? Okay, people are on my side. It was definitely split. But I was cracking up because people were like, I mean, yeah, kind of. You're an asshole if you won't touch your friend's skeleton.

And I was like, are we all live. Okay. Like, no, we're not getting into this again because then we're going to get. You know, you know, you know how. You know how your co-host gets when, when you bring up touching skeletons. All I'm saying is if it were your dying request, there's very few things. I wouldn't do. What if I said my dying request was to like shoot a puppy?

Oh. I mean, I'm saying like why would you say done? Like why on earth would you say done when I just said the world is my oyster? I could say the worst possible thing. I was going between the rolodex of joint ISIS. Like I had all these things and you said done and before I could even spit one out. I think in terms of like the creepy crawly stuff I would do most things for you. But if I had to commit murder, I don't know.

That's a, it depends on if it's a puppy or like another murderer. You've joined ISIS undercover. Sorry, okay, I'm going to stop talking about ISIS. Yeah, it's funny. Anyway, I am drinking. I'm drinking three different things. My ADHD got the better of me today. Okay.

I'm drinking a water. I'm drinking. Oh, the thing I was licking was, um, my, I have a London fog, but the place that I got it from had like a cold foam on top. So I was saying they had a cold and I was like, they just don't want you coming back. They just don't want you coming back. That's all. No, it had like a foam on top of it.

I love a little cold foam. Oh, it's so good. It was a vanilla cold foam. Thanks for letting us watch you lick that off the lid. It was really nice. You're welcome. And the third one is a protein power drink thing just because I'm hungry and I need to fill the foam. Yeah, that's kind of what I've got here. I've got like a smoothie again, but it's like I've just not had like an appetite very much. So I'm trying to get my calories in like smoothie form lately. I think it's when I stopped drinking. It was like I just lost my appetite for everything. It was so weird. Interesting. And I still have a bad. Does drinking make you hungry? Kind of. I mean, I don't know. I think I was just in such a rhythm like a very unhealthy rhythm that like I had a system going and then maybe. But also I was Googling like in the middle of the night on incognito like, I.

signs you have a tapeworm. So I don't know. I feel like I'm I'm I'm all over the place. But yeah, if anybody could maybe diagnose, no, don't do that. I mean, for fine, why not? I mean, for entertainment purposes only if anybody knows why I can't eat until like 5 p.m. and then I'm like suddenly ravenous, but like only for liquid foods. It's really weird. I typed in a virgin to solid foods and it was like, you're infant. And I was like, no, no, me. Me. That is interesting. And like there are, you know, situations where you have sensory issues or things like that that go into adulthood. But I'm like, what about like sudden onset? Like it's not like I've never liked to eat food.

It's just suddenly I'm very like averse to like it makes me ill to even think about. So I don't know what that's about. And it's not like I'm like losing a bunch of weight. It's just like this weird balance. And then at night I get really hungry and I'll just like snack on like nuts. And I'm trying to like eat actually nutritious foods, which is why I order these smoothies. but yeah, it's the weirdest thing. So anyway, I should probably go to the doctor.

Yeah, good luck. I don't know. Who has time for that? No, I will use Zok. I promise everyone right now I'm going to use Zokok. And that that ad is not even in this episode, but it is true. And I, because I'm not going to be calling anybody. Let's be for real.

A lot of mysterious ailments going on over here today. Yeah, wow. We're effed up. Yeah, something's going on. We're always kind of effed up. It's been a while since we've had like melodrama regard, medical melodrama, A TM TM TM, TM, I'm wearing my TM bracelet. I knew it. I wore my TM bracelet and I said, today we're going to TM something. I betcha. I betcha. And we did. Nailed it. You nailed it. Well, if you're comfortable talking about it, just because you mentioned it, how are, how is your journey, your sober journey? Are you having a- Thank you for asking.

It's, um... Only if you want to talk about it. Yeah, yeah. It's, it's, it's been like something I don't really think about much, which is the fucking shocking. Yeah. It was a day that I realized I'd stopped checking the days that I was like, oh my God. And, um...

What day did it get to before you stopped just counting the days? I think, well, remember, it was on air with you that I was like, I forget. And you were like, you don't know what like your hundred days or something. And I was like, nope. And then I missed it. So it was like in the 80s. are 90. So it took a couple months. The other day

was the first time that I got really down because I passed like something and I was having a really, really bad day and I saw like these like beers or something and I was like I would literally do I would touch M skeleton for a beer. Finally something.

We found what it would take. I would break my sobriety for a nice cold beer for a I would do that for you just for that. No, but in that moment I was like it's really hard because in that moment you're like what's wrong with me like you know and then it's like hey it's chill I got home I have like some non-alcoholic beers took a few sips was over it you know but in the moment like your nervous system is like freaking out and it's like it's the only thing that'll fix it

you know and you just kind of have to learn to like sit with discomfort which is like my least favorite thing and apparently the thing that carmically I'm meant to learn the most is to just sit in the discomfort of change and of life I don't know it is so I'm you yeah you're you know, it's okay. It's going okay. And I'm very pleased that I've connected with some people. If you've messaged me or DM me, I haven't, I've gone through some and occasionally I'll open it and go through a few, but a couple people have messaged. Well, a lot of people have messaged. I'm really kind and supportive, but I just have barely the bandwidth to get myself to a doctor and eat anything for breakfast. So I'm sorry that I'm not responding. But I'm so proud of everybody else, too,

who's like, you know what? I was looking for a sign. And then you were like, hey, if you're looking for a sign, here's your sign. There were a couple of people who said that. And I was like, that's so meaningful. You know, just that alone. So anyway, but thank you for asking. It's been good in that, like, it's hard. The hardest part, I think, was deciding it and committing to it.

Because then I was like, I can't go. It's like, it was this weird mental block where I was like, all right, doors are closed. But yeah, after a few months, I'm not having any cravings except that one time for the beer. And they make really good non-alcoholic beer. So like that really solves up for me. But yeah. What are you drinking today? I have this smoothie with like dates.

I know we discussed that. Dates and peanut, like very, um, caloric things to try and get some calories. I'm just trying to put anything in my body at this point. I just want to eat. Like sometimes Gio and I just eat cheese. It's at two in the mornings. I'm like, I haven't eaten and I'm so, it's really effed up. I'm sorry.

My hormones, I think. I don't know. I'm all over the place. I need to see a doctor. I'm aware. It sounds precious though, just the two of you at two in the morning. It is.

Some things never change. We have a lot of moments that, yeah, exactly, that I'm like that are precious, but also they're just like routine. Does he just wake you up at 2 a.m. now for your cheese at run? He literally two nights in a row has woken me up between the hours of 1 and 2 a.m. So thank you for asking he has. And I don't think I realize why. He also has changed food.

So I think he has to go potty. But like also now I'm realizing it is when I start snacking when he wakes me up. So maybe that's, maybe we're pavloving each other, you know. Sure. Sure. Oh, no. Oh, it happens. Do you have a reason why you drink?

Um, probably because like I can't get any calories except through candy, cheesots, and smoothies. That's a good reason. Thanks. That's a very good reason. I mean, it's better than, oh, I'm saying my teeth. It's better than wine, right? All my calories for wine. But maybe that's why.

Maybe my body's like, where are normal calories, you know? I mean, it does sound like you used to get your calories from a liquid and I are like, let's do that again. True. Like it's just, yeah, that's a good point. Why do I drink? Oh, because I have a tapeworm. That's why I drink. Because I've gone to the most extreme WebMD middle of the night option. I would like to know more about your tapeworm. Thanks. I mean, I know so far we don't know anything, but if there's an update, I sure would like to hear it on whether it exists or not. Well, see, here's a dangerous thing. My brother joked, quote unquote, for years about having a tumor in his brain and then he literally had a tumor in his brain. So it's sort of like, hmm, self-fulfilling prophecy or he just like medically knew that that was there. I don't know.

That's so weird. I have friends who also recently discover that they have tumors on their brain. Was it on their pituitary? I don't know where it was. That's where his is, which also was his third eye. And I was like, oh my God. And he's like, don't fucking start with me. And I was like, you're right.

Oh, my God. No, mine was, um, is he okay, by the way? Um, no. Okay. I mean, he's just trying to find a doctor who will look at it. It's like, nope. It's been years. It's been like, he found out actually when I was in Egypt.

Well, yeah, almost a year. That's horrifying. Yeah, it is horrifying. And I'm like, and nobody will fucking do anything about it. It pisses me right off. I, my friend, who is also dealing with something similar. We only call each other when something bad's happening. And so when I saw her phone ringing, I was like, literally I answered it.

And I went, what happened? And she went, brain tumor. And I went, oh, okay. Yeah. Take a guess. Apparently hers, I don't know how science works, but I guess just by looking at it through her skull, they can tell it's benign. That I would, I don't know how that works. But apparently hers is okay.

So hopefully his is okay, too. I think it depends too, like how big it is. Sure. Yeah, his is pretty small, but they said it could be affecting hormones because pituitary is for your hormones. So, and he's, you know, so anyway, I don't want to put air all his medical stuff, but this is stuff he's already mentioned on Beach, you Sandy. so well all right well we'll send out a little like manifesting good vibes to him meanwhile I'm like I have a tapeworm I'm like no you don't Christine yeah at this point don't complain you have a tapeworm it's okay you know what I'm saying I don't even think I have a tapeworm I'm making that up I literally inventing that yeah but for the story I'm gonna need people to know that it's fully an existing tapeworm it's probably exists I feel like maybe 9 feet at least maybe don't say that now I'm gonna get freaked out just coiled just coiled I'm kidding I'm

I shouldn't have brought it up. I'll talk about eyeballs and belly buttons if you don't shut up. That's a fair threat. That's a fair threat. I know your weaknesses. If it helps, I'm constantly. So today I brought the toenail murderer. The cuticle shredder.

Oh my God. Oh my God. The unraveling belly button. If it helps, I'm constantly making fun of Allison and saying that I think she has worms just because anytime there's a stomach trouble, I'm just like, Why would that help A and B, explain yourself, please? They're not alone. Everyone's got a worm thing.

I don't have worm. Okay. You have a lovely way of words. You're such a wordsmith. Don't worry. You and Allison both have worms. That is not. Okay, sure.

Every time I have tummy troubles, I blame the worms, even though I don't think there are any. So, you could just blame the worms. Anyway, where are we? Oh, I was going to say the reason I drink is because Hank is, Hank is I know it's delayed everybody don't yell at me he is in training now

oh and because he's been a bit of a bad boy lately what did he do um nothing like violent but he is reactive and at the dog park he is like

at the dog park in general he's a big barker but like to a point worth a problem Like he's like in the face Like he's like his idea of trying to get the dogs to play with them is to bark and lunge at them Oh yeah yeah I know it geo does that but he's small so it's like less upsetting to the dogs Yeah but Hank is a Rottweiler and he's in the small dog right you know what I'm saying like yeah yeah right like rolls reverse not not probably not good not cute

I mean so luckily he has his own little group of friends where like I think it's like it's helpful and bad that he learned from some of the dogs there who love to roughhouse He learned that that was acceptable. So now he tries to do it. I had to stop taking Gio to the dog park because I was like, well, he plays with some dogs and then some get too violent. It's just like I couldn't trust them anymore. Not him. The dogs. I just was like it's not working.

Well, I'm very lucky that like the people that I go there all the time at the same time. So everyone who has like small dogs, like they all know that Hank is like not a threat. And like I can literally hear on the other side of the park. I'll hear him like bark and lunge at another dog. And I just hear how they hang. Owners go, Hank, stop it. I know, cut it out, Hank. Like, I know nobody's worried, but I'm worried about the day when we're in a new

environment and that happens. Right. Or somebody brings a new dog. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And he's also, because I was taking him to the small and timid dog park when he was freaked out about everything. And then that's where he ended up making his friends.

So now we still go there. And he's not the only big dog there. There's other big, brave dogs there that just get along better with small dogs. and I think I accidentally tricked him into thinking he's a small dog because now anytime there's a dog his size or bigger, he like doesn't know what to do with it and starts like barking and won't shut the fuck up. And like I think he just doesn't, so he has like a size preference when it comes to dogs.

And anyway, so we're working on that for the dog park. But then Allison, I do the dog park, Allison walks him. She's got her own whole list of things that she wants to work on with him. But it's a lot of- She'll be good at that too. You both will be very good at that. I feel like like. Yeah, we'd had our first session yesterday.

And he's very smart. I know it'll be fine, but I'm just like, ugh, this seems like it's going to be like a long road ahead because it's just a lot of little things that we want to correct. Anyway, so anyway, I drink because it just feels like it's going to be a bit of a headache. But anything for him, I guess. So you baby.

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And after you check out, they'll ask where you heard about them. So please support our show and tell them that we sent you. Experience the new standard and comfort and support with Honeylove. I found a good one for you today. Thank God. I know. If it was a bad one, I would have just hung up. Well, it's just so hard to find the solid, solid ones now.

I got to spread them out. I got to make them really count. And this is not that the other ones are bad, but like when I tell you the topic today, you'll know why. Because almost 500 episodes, Christy. I cannot believe it. Crazy. Also, 491, my lucky numbers.

Happy 491. Thank you so much. It feels nice. I have a wild one for you too. So look at us. Let's buckle. up. Do you have a request for 500? You don't have to say it now, but if you think of one, let me know, because I'd like to prep you a juicy one. I looked at the calendar last night and I was

like, I saw episode 500 with like a bunch of exclamation points and I was like, well, I think that's a sign for me to start thinking about it. So, um, because my brother and I recorded our, wait, that's weird. My brother and I recorded our 400th yesterday. And I forgot completely, like completely. And so that's going to happen if I don't think about it. If you know, you know that already about me. I will not think, I will not know. Um, so the exclamation points did clue me in. So let me, hmm. You don't have to know now, but give me and I, you got like, nine weeks. So don't do tapeworms. I'll kill you. I will not. I will not. This is a poltergeist story for you. Ooh. Okay. This is the, and it's in your, your town. Well, it's in your

state. Tell me, do you know the town, Olive Hill? No. Okay. This is the Olive Hill poltergeist. Oh my gosh, I've never heard of this. How far away is Olive Hill from you? I just said I've never heard of it. I know, I, I don't know why I expected you to look at it up. I'm like, I'm not A-L-E-X-A if that's what you're asking. It's two hours from you. Which direction?

Like, what part of Kentucky's name? It's near Ashland, Huntington. West Virginia? Yeah, like so like Appalachian kind of. Yes. Getting close. Yeah. Okay, cool.

I love it. It's so beautiful. down there. I love that drive. It's very pretty. It starts to get scary a little bit. And West Virginia makes fun of Kentucky. And Kentucky makes fun of West Virginia. So you know what?

It's shocking that there isn't more of a rivalry between Virginia and West Virginia. But they are, they even share a name and yet are so different in a lot of ways. I think that's, yeah, what I think Kentucky and West Virginia are very similar. So they get really mad at each other. I think West Virginia and Western Virginia are very similar. Interesting. Yeah, but like Fredericksburg is very different than. Yeah.

And then like, because like D.C. area. I mean, yeah. Makes sense. So all of Hill, Kentucky, which is two hours from Christine. And this was in 1968. So the two people that you have to care about right now are John and ORA, ORA. And they are retirees living in their house. And their, oh, their last name is Callahan.

So sometimes it's been called the Callahan Poldergast. but okay john and aura so in 1968 we start strong they're sitting on their couch and above their couch there's a frame picture of jesus and of course you've got to start a poltergeist i mean it's like fresh into like if you wanted to start a horror movie start with a picture of jesus oh i was just thinking of kentucky but yeah also a horror movie yeah it really fits both literally writes itself kind of both yeah so okay picture of jesus uh apparently written on the picture of jesus it says christ is the head of this house. Oh, lovely. Literally meant for a movie intro.

The picture cracks on its own. And that is the beginning of, I'm just going to call it Hell Week, because throughout the week, very similar things happen only it very quickly escalates. So there's mirrors, light bulbs, dishes, even more picture frames to start shattering in the home. Oh, my God. All in the same pattern, which is interesting.

I guess they noticed that the crackings, pattern on them was similar to if it had been shot in the center and like splintered outward. Ew. So it's like one pinpoint in the middle, like a bullet hole sort of. Ew, that is so creepy, dude. Someone shot Jesus. Because, ah. Ew, I hate that.

And also, like, that visually is so, so creepy rather than, like, just, oh, the side cracked a little bit. No, it's like, it's like right in the middle. Outward is wild. Yeah. It's very odd. Weird. Then the washing machine also starts freaking out.

Well, it's getting shot. It's good. You know what? I was freak out too. That's so funny. You mentioned that. I hadn't put it together. But one of the problems with it was that they kept hearing loud bangs from the inside.

Oh, dear. Which, like, I guess you could say is, like, my weed pen rolling around in there. Usually is what. Like, when that happens, I'm like, oh, no, I've done it again. But, yeah, I guess this could also be that. paranormal gunshots. I feel like I imagine it's like flying in the air and levitating and it's just playing that fuck-ass three-minute long Samsung song.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That always interrupts like the most intense moments of your life. So the washing machine is literally shaking and freaking out just like how other objects are flying around despite this being super heavy. It literally levitates from the ground and starts shaking as if energy is trying to get out of it. Ew, ew, ew. Orra, this is a bit of a long quote, but it, I only, and also the, it was a fragmented quote where like I got one piece from a different article, another piece from different article, but it's all talking about the same situation. So I just clumped together. So, or says, things began to break all at once. I didn't know what to do. I got up and went into the bathroom and a bottle of bath oil flew against the wall and cracked like a shotgun. Oh my God. Later in the day, I started my washer and it boomed inside just like a shot. I knew all the granite would be broken off inside, but when I opened the lid, there wasn't any

damage. Things would break and we're just sitting there looking at them with no one touching anything, no one near them. And then it got to a point where now we're just leaving things to let them lay where they fall. Like it was like, whoa, it was happening so often. The blank might as well, nothing we can do about it sort of thing. Yeah, like it was happening so frequently that they stopped just even trying to clean it up. They were just like, well, okay.

So that's interesting because, of course, I thought, like, washing machines, Samsung diddy, but like I didn't end weed pen, but I didn't think like, oh, 19, what year is it? 68. To even have a washing machine, I feel like is a big deal, especially in, like, Eastern Kentucky. It feels like that wouldn't be normal, but then the granite, maybe it's more like a. Like an original washing machine. Like a crank one, I don't know. Made a washboards in there. Yeah, I don't know.

I'm sure that maybe, but I just that thing about cracked granite. I'm like, what kind of washing machine is this? That's a good point. That's a good point. And those... Sounds fancy, though. Those were in the same quote, too, so I didn't... Oh, I got you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Only a few days later, they... I said they weren't even trying to, like, really, like, clean the stuff up and rehang it or anything. They just kept buckets around the house and would just put the shards in them. I feel like that's how I live. It's like, with a four-year-old, it's like, I don't even bother putting stuff away. I just kind of, like, have piles. I'm like, just...

We'll get to it. A doom bug. bucket. You just have to have it. Yeah, once the tornado finishes, then I'll get to it. Yeah. So they had buckets around the house where they were just tossing shattered pieces in. And this is all within one week. They were, it went from nothing's going on to all of this. To the Jesus cracking and then like, yes. Oh, God. That's crazy. By the end of the week, good for them. They flood the house. They moved. Oh, I thought you said flood. And I was like, oh, no. Excuse me? They flooded the house. Okay, they fled, fled, flood.

They fled the house, which like, I, I know that not everybody has the ability to do that, but I like how in every other poltergey story, I'm like, get out as soon as you can. And they did. Yeah, they never get out. Yeah. It's, it's nice when the trope of like staying forever doesn't happen. Right. I don't know if you know these locations, but I guess Olive Hill, I guess the neighborhood they lived in was called Henderson Branch. And then they moved to another neighborhood. Olive Hill, Henderson Branch, okay. Yeah. And then they moved to Zimmerman Hill. I don't know. My understanding is that there are two neighborhoods in the same town. Okay. Okay. So I think they're still in all of them. So I feel like it's probably, yeah, they're kind of mixed together. Okay, cool.

Would you, it sounds like a lot of these places are just last names and then like a nature thing. Like Henderson Branch, Zimmerman Hill. Yeah, would you be like Schiefer Trunk? What would you be? Sheifer Trunk. Sheifer Valley. I would want to be a valley because then I'm like, that sounds like so deep get it um what what would yours be i think i'd want to be like well i don't know about

the with the last name shultz but i like the idea of like some sort of water thing like a river oh yeah that's good too or a brook or what about like a cat canyon or something like you know something like cavern is there anything alliterative with shultz oh good or schiefer or schiefer schultz shanctuary shanguery shanktuary Sheeper Shult's Wilderness Sh sanctuary. Shark Shanksuary. I mean, with love, that's what it would be now. It's a shark sanctuary.

So I don't know what anyone wants to do about it except just accept it. Thank you. I love that. Thank you. I knew to ask. Okay. Yeah. You were right to ask.

The Shefer Shult Shanksuary. Okay. Shark shanguary. Okay. So they are still in the Olive Hill area, but they move within a week. And the very first, like, day I'm thinking, or at least within the first week of them moving into this new house, they see an apparition of the first owner that lived in their last house. Like the person who's he there.

He's like, oh, thank God we got out. And they're like, wait, you weren't invited. I feel like he, like, hitched a ride to the Holiday Inn. Like, that's not fair. Yeah. So it's, I don't really know where to place this or if I was even going to mention it at all. but the theory later was that some researchers think that the original owner of the house used to kind of like try to make contact with spirits and so maybe he stirred something up but that wouldn't explain why like when we don't have any records of him being haunted or like the many years that the family lived in that house before this week yeah but so there's a lot that I did just kind of pop he was like I'm out of there now I've attached to you guys I've hitched to ride with you guys. maybe a part of me is like for the first time in my life skeptical where I'm like maybe I maybe they just had a dream of like the all the people who had to live there before them and it was like I don't know I don't really understand it was a very fleeting moment where they said like oh yeah and then we saw the original owner of the house I'm like why don't we speak on that I mean there's not much to say I guess not um except he hitched a ride I guess I mean honestly your your theory is the funniest so I'm just going to stick with that that he was

It's also the correctest. So that helps. So they saw him. The theory goes that he made contact with spirits and might be responsible for this. I don't really know about that. But so they saw him as soon as they moved into this new place. And then as soon as they saw the operation of this guy, the activity starts all over again. So it's almost like he, if you want to play that game, it's like he cursed them into the activity.

Yeah. I see. Okay. Okay. Okay. He like symbolizes the cycle starting all over again. He's like, maybe. Or like I took it as like all of the haunting spirits of the house followed you.

And so like one night you saw a previous owner, another night it was. Oh, you're being visited by all the previous. I guess I don't know. Scrooge situation. Well, so they they see that guy. The next day activity has clearly followed them because the objects start breaking again. They know pretty soon objects are going to be flying around the room again. You're like, we know this old story.

Yeah. Get the buckets. The tale is old this time. Friends and family were over at the new house, including their 12-year-old grandson, Roger. Roger becomes a pivotal character here. Oh, I bet. And not to say that he's responsible for anything, but just like he's going to get mentioned a lot, so remember the name Roger. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And he's 12. So the friends and family are all over at the house, probably helping them pack or unpack. and objects are flying everywhere. There's heavy furniture flipping itself over. Dishes are shooting itself across the room. Picture frames are spinning on the wall. Apparently, like, a chest of furniture, a chest flew at Roger. An end table flipped itself.

Family figurines floated in the air and then dropped straight to the ground. There was one quote that I saw from one of the grandkids who was like, I saw this figurine in the air. And it clearly floated there because I was then able to look at my cousin and then look back guys. it and then it dropped. So it was like, you seeing this? Oh my gosh. Wow. That's crazy.

Some of them got hit with projectiles. Some items swirled around other items and then landed back in their original spot. Ew. So there was one case of like an ashtray that picked itself up, floated across the room, went around a lamp and then came back and sat back down. It feels like a weird like trick you would buy in like a magazine from the 1960s, like a magic kit that you would buy. in a catalog or something and then like learn magnetic tricks to like levitate stuff fishing wire or something yeah yeah yeah exactly like fool your friends you know yes yeah um but wow i but i really don't understand how that would happen so i have no idea and um this was this one i don't know why

it others certainly should be scarier to me but this one freaked me out the most was that they saw plastic cups that were stacked on top of the fridge slowly drifting down from the top of the fridge so like it's almost like they got picked up off the fridge and then just one by one slowly drifted down to the floor. Ah, what? And when they put them, when they stack the cups back up and put them back on the top of the fridge, then they flew across the room and the fridge moved itself. I don't like it. I don't know why that one freaks me out more than like the projectiles hitting children, but.

There's something about the polter guy stuff that's like with the, I don't know, oh, like with the stacking and the, the perfect symmetry that is so unsettling. And I'm like inhuman, you know. And I think about how silly the ghosts must actually look. I imagine it kind of like a movie set and like you can see all the people in like green screen costumes like just carrying things from place to place. And it's like covered in. Yeah.

It's like it's really not that scary if I could see how stupid you look picking this up and putting it over there and then putting it back. You know. Piling quarters on top of each other in the middle of the hallway. I'm like, don't you have anything else to do. But yeah, it's still so eerie. The things moving slower after they've clearly proven they can go faster. I hate it.

Yeah, not good. In the next few days, a stray cat also started coming by, but then very quickly refused to ever go near the house again. Oh, boy. And then more apparitions appeared. Namely, there were two of them, both Orissa. And she also saw the previous owner. Yeah. she saw both of these next apparitions the clearest although there were witnesses before or after

so let me explain one of them was her brother who had passed 14 years earlier oh god okay wow so something yeah weird okay so yeah it's almost like things got brought over from the last house she opened some portal or something like yeah it's strange something like that and so even though she saw this apparition. Apparently her son also later saw this apparition. Ooh. Oh, so he saw his uncle then. Yes. Okay. The next one, which makes very little sense to me, Oro saw the ghost of a Catholic nurse. So she looked like a nun, but she was also a nurse. She was wearing the habit. She was in all white. And I guess Roger, he, before she ever saw it, Roger said that he saw something white in the yard running behind a tree.

So we think that maybe he. It was just a rabbit. Yeah, it could have just been like a fucking turtle bug. I don't know. Wow. Now, no, listen, hold on. Rewind. Now that's newsworthy.

No, but yeah, that's creepy. But if she's running behind trees like that is horrible, I refuse to believe that's a Catholic nurse running behind the trees in the back yard. I can't believe that. Unless there's a medical emergency behind the trees. behind the tree. Then I'm a little less scared. Maybe that's the only soothing thing because I will not sleep if I think about that for

another second. So apparently, despite my turtle love claims, this Catholic nurse was taller and bigger than most people. So like really towered over her. Oh, okay. It was while she was, I guess, sleeping or in her bedroom, a basket of bed. She like towered over her. I guess one of them touched the other.

And Oura said that she felt very cold. and when Oro ran out of the room, a cabinet in the kitchen tried to slam into her. Yuck. Yuck. I was just talking to a friend about postpartum hair shedding and how much I struggled with that because I'd already had a lot of hair shedding before that. And so then after when I postpartum, I was like, oh no. But Nutraful offered a postpartum formula and I was able to start taking that.

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For me, it's just a like, I don't know situation. My mom, she's going through some changes, if you will, that have led to some hair thinning. But there's a million reasons why you might want to try on Nutrafol, and it works. It works. Yes, it does. Let your hair be one less thing to worry about. See visibly thicker, stronger, faster growing hair in three to six months with Nutraful. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering art listeners, $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you visit NutraFol.com and enter promo code drink. That's NutraFol.com. spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L dot com promo code drink. So Desper for help, the family, they went, I guess, as public as you can in the 60s in a small little town,

inside of a small little town. But they reached out somehow. Well, there's a lot of hills, so you could probably stand on top of one of the hills and just holler, you know. They had some, they hollered down the holler, yeah. Exactly. The Shevers- Shields holler. See, I would love also holler, although I feel like I'm appropriating because I didn't grow up in Hollars.

In hall with, yeah, even though, yeah, you were pretty close, huh? I, geographically, but not like. Geographically. The P. I think Hollers started like an hour and a half away for me. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah. I have people who were lived in West Virginia came to my college. And I remember them saying they lived in a holler and I was like, tell me everything.

You're like, that's a real thing. Yeah. It's like, like, Woody the Pooh? Are you? Me, I moved to D.C. for college and everyone was like, you're from Ohio. did you own like a cow? And I was like, no, I don't own a cat. What the fuck?

I, uh, yeah. No. Like, anyway, that's a, that's a story for another day. Yes. So Desper for help, the family reached out. And somehow it got through the grapevine to a local college. They, it basically, they said, we're looking for any fucking help.

Please, God help us. And Morehead State University. Mm-hmm. They know where that is. They are one of the first colleges. that had a paranormal club. Whoa, I didn't know that. It's called the S-I-S-P.

I don't even know if it still exists, but if someone is a part of it, let me know. You literally, it froze from when you said, it's called, and then it completely froze, and then it came back at, but if anyone's part of it, let me know. Like, it's like to the millisecond for me. It redacted itself.

Yeah. It literally just bleeped it out. What was it? So let's try it again. Yeah. The S-I-S-P or society, Did it happen again? No.

Okay. Society for Investigation of Supernatural Phenomena. Wow. Yeah, it totally redacted. That's crazy. Wow. How cool, though. I did not know that.

Yeah. So I hope it's still kicking. And they found out about this. And I'm sure if you're like a college club who like wants to prove yourself and it's about ghosts, you know they jumped on that. They were like, we have to go. A poltergeist? We think we have a poltergeist.

I mean, come on. I'd jump on that. I'd be like, I'm joining the club immediately. If there was a poltergeist two hours from here. I'd be like, I don't know if I'll go myself, but I would love to know somebody who's there and maybe take some videos for me. No, I would for sure watch the live stream of some content creators live stream of the event. Yeah, we see each other. And then we would yap about it later from the comfort of our own homes and act like we were there.

Why don't you just leave? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's perfect. Perfect, Grosby. One of the main students involved in this at the time, I think he was one of the founders of the club. His name was Ed. and I only say his name because it sounds like he was kind of the leader of the bunch who all ended up going over to the house to check it out. So Ed and the gang, this was their version, I guess, of like an investigation, but it sounds like a lot of what they did was kind of just research deaths in the town. And I guess that was to see how they might be affecting the land that the house was on.

Yeah, okay. I feel like I could do like, yeah, by the ghost activity, I feel like I would try to figure out who it was, maybe. But I guess, I don't know. Well, it's a good angle. And, and I mean, there's students and there's very little, I mean, there's no internet and there's no other people to talk to about this. So I guess they were going with what they had, which was the wide way. The washing machines made of rocks. So like, I don't know what's going on. They, I'm, I'm not hesitant to bring them up because they are a part of the story, but I'm hesitant to really dive deep. into their theories or like their methods because it just sounds I don't I'm not like trying to judge anybody it just sounds no wonder they redacted their name they're gonna find to sue you in a minute well these days I'm sure it's like simply with the power of internet I'm sure that they could like they have more sources no back then like what else you I mean if you're devoted and you're reading books I mean that means M you realize that means that they didn't watch YouTube videos they literally had to read books about this shit which is like pretty legit no that's for sure

legit quite a bit of credit I think think. So I guess the way I'm trying to phrase it is that like they came up with a lot of information, but I don't know how it really connects to anything. Okay. Okay. So they just, yeah, found like background history. Like they were like this happened here and this happened. And it felt like a lot of their theories were kind of leaps. Okay. Okay. To try to make them connect. Like, right. So an example is that there was a death many years before at like a coal mine or something like that and the same company where there was that death another worker once lived in the house of John and Oro and so it's like oh oh oh oh like a little like what is that like it's like a lot

of stretches like they were or also really solve anything I guess right or like when they when when ORA saw the apparition of her brother who died 15 years before um his wife I guess maybe had some mental illness and was institutionalized. And they tried to use that as a reason for like everyone else was like losing touch with reality with all these poltergeist activities going on in the house. Like it was just like it was they were just trying to connect dots where they were trying to find dots and then trying to connect them. You know what I see?

They were creating dots. Yeah. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. Um. And so they did go to the house and they did observe a lot of stuff.

I just think they're reasoning. for a lot of it just doesn't totally click for me. Sure, sure. So one of the things that they did do, they researched the town. They also went over to observe what they could. And eventually other investigators got involved as well, which really muddies this up because I don't know who saw what. Okay. So I'm just going to say the investigators, but it could mean this college club or it could mean like investigators in Durham, North Carolina who had like much more advanced technology.

They went on to be like prominent figures in paranormal research. So it's quite a gamut and everyone seems to have been in the house at the same time. Oh, I see. So they're just in and out like gathering anything they can. I think so. Okay. So it's it's a confusing who's who. But the only thing I'll say is the one that really matters, I guess, is one

investigator who is a part of all this. His name is William Roll. And he becomes like a big guy and paranormal eventually. Okay. Okay. But I'm just going to vaguely say investigators from now on. I feel like you should go by a billy roll. Yeah, sure.

I like that. Jelly roll. Jelly roll. Billy roll. Mm-hmm. You probably hated that. No, it made me, I was wondering if I should go on a tangent or not and I'm going to say no. I'm saying that guy probably hated it.

Probably. Probably. Probably. Yeah. Someone called them Billy Roll. You know he hated it. Investigators, blanket statement. They wondered if the spirits were connected to Roger because Roger seemed to have developed a sick sense with all of this activity.

He was able to predict incidents before they actually happened. This is a child, yes. He's the 12-year-old grandson. Okay. So an example of this is he would say, like, something's about to happen or things will start up again soon. And then they would. And then he found his kit that he bought from the catalog with the fishing wire. And then they found all of his magnets and strings.

I mean, it's happened before Fox Sisters, anybody? I know. And, you know, had it just been the college club, and this was like their, maybe one of their first, like, their first tries at this, I would have thought maybe they missed something. But when this other Durham group of investigators came where they, like, were professional paranormal investigators and researchers, they said that they tried every sort of test they could. and they could not find strings and all this. So one time they were also recording a conversation with Roger about his experiences in the house. And very weirdly, the recording of Roger's voice was interrupted by three very strange sounds. And then the tape went blank and didn't record anything else for the rest of the interview.

No, thanks. So that was the first time that they've been theorized, well, maybe Roger is at the center of this, but it's not intentional. Maybe something is attached to Roger. yuck um one thing they noticed was that roger's senses were actually getting stronger it seemed like he was getting stronger or more attuned to the activity i don't like this and john or the grandparents uh whose house this originally affected they were getting physically weaker now i will say they were also like in their 70s and 80s maybe they were just exhausted that could be explained i suppose yeah but uh and i would also say like maybe rogers just getting more confident and he's getting quite a lot of

attention with people coming in and out asking questions. Well, he's also going through puberty probably just to say, like if he's 12, I don't know. Um, but so their, their observation was, well, he's getting stronger and they're getting weaker. So maybe we need to separate them and then we'll see if the activity follows just him. Um, so investigators kept them away from each other and put Roger just back at his own house and the activity stopped happening at the grandparents house. So it did seem to follow Roger. Oh boy. But one night, like, it didn't just follow him, like, a little bit. Like, the grandparents ended up getting a phone call from the house saying, like,

you don't have to worry about anything. Like, all of that activity is for sure over here. Wow. Objects were flying like crazy. Furniture was flipping. All the same stuff that was going on at the original house. One of the stories was that the parents of Roger, who had already been witnessing everything going on, things were about to start flying.

Like they saw items just twitching as if they were about to take off. Uh-uh. And they started just grabbing things off the table and just throwing them on the ground before they could start flying. Ew, that is so creepy, dude. Like the concept of like, oh, shit, that's about to go flying and that becomes normal to you. Yeah. And just being like, I'm going to beat you to it and just sort on the floor. Oh, no.

Another time investigators were in a room with Roger, his back was facing the television. And on the television, there was a bullet. of fruit or a bowl of flowers. Uh-huh. And that bowl of flowers was sitting on top of a doily, which was on top of the TV. Does that make sense? Classic. Classic, yes. So Roder's not even looking at the TV or anything.

He's just in the room. His back is facing all of that. But they hear this loud crack and the bowl of flowers and the doily that it's sitting on top of both lift themselves off the TV, throw themselves behind the TV. And when they go and look, it's sitting perfectly as it was with the flowers all still arranged perfectly in the bowl on top of the doily on the floor behind the TV. Ew. Ew.

Ew. Then as they're talking about how that could have happened, a clock that was also sitting on the TV, then flies across the room in the opposite direction, like four feet or something, until it lands just at their toes. Blch. See, it's like that kind of shit. And also what's freaky to me is that like it flew across in the opposite direction. So you can't even say, oh, there was a shift or something. Right.

Like it's going in all directions. Yeah, no, that's creepy. I mean, and like he's 12, so that is the perfect age, right? Like, puberty, like, for poltergeist. Like, that's when that happens. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's that teenage energy.

You're on to it. So another time, Roger claimed that the table was going to flip over. Apparently when he said this, he, like, just stared off into the sunset or something. The table will flip over. His eyes, like, went into the middle gaze. Yeah. To the ether. And five minutes later, the six.

pound table not only levitated, but rotated itself 45 degrees and then landed on top of the chairs in a way where if you were to take like all four dining room chairs and have them kind of close enough to each other. The table was balancing. Yeah. So that's not cool, man. So the table landed in a way where none of its legs were hitting the floor. It was balancing on the chairs. That's so effed up. That's like I literally immediately had a flashback to those like we used to build like coaster with coasters.

like try to build with coasters. Like that. That's creepy, dude. I don't like that. It's one thing because if it was like a 12 year old kid and he's doing this on purpose with his little strings and all this. Yeah, exactly. A 60 pound table flying over your head and landing exactly on the chairs on your first try

in front of everybody. The fact that he said that and then like I hate that they have to wait five minutes. They're like, when is it going to happen? At least that time he said a table slipping over versus like, something will happen. Because if they were sitting at the table, it's like, yeah, get away from the table, you know, yeah. The second I'd hear the table slipping over, I'd be like, well, I'll be on the other room

where the table is not. I'm going to Walmart, actually. Bye. So another table, a different time, threw itself over them, like over their heads. This was after he predicted something would happen at 1 a.m. And at 1 a.m. is when the table flipped itself. Oh, my God. Objects flew everywhere.

There was loud knocking that came from nowhere. Shelving toppled itself. And at this point, Roger's parents, They were like, fuck this. We think that either there's a demon attached to him or you brought the demon investigators. And they're just like, I think, trying to find blame anywhere they can. So they told the investigators to leave. They were like, you're clearly not helping.

So just go. Now, apparently Roger's parents are Jehovah's Witnesses. And they reached out to their group of people. And the Jehovah's Witnesses came over and said, okay, we agree that something's attached to him and we're going to host an exorcism. Oh, dear. Um, as juicy as that sounds, I don't want you to get your hopes up for anything fun coming out of this because it's kind of just a one sentence beat. And I'm like, why didn't we talk more about this? But they host, apparently hosted an extracism that included burning a lot of his personal items thinking that's, oh my gosh. I know. So imagine being 12 and traumatizing to every extent. If I were 12 and there wasn't a poltergeist and someone burned all my clothes and favorite items, I'd be pissed. Yeah. And then they told you, oh, it's, we're only burning them because there's demons. It's. attached to them and you. Oh, thanks. That helps. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. So they host an exorcism. Apparently, it doesn't even work. So he had all the stuff burned for no reason.

Super duper. Eventually, the family, I guess, just gives up and they're like, okay, we're going to move and see what happens. Oh, they move. Okay. And so they, which I guess doesn't make a lot of sense because it clearly didn't fix anything the last time they all moved. I guess desperate times. I don't know those were times but they i mean this time they moved out of the area and like entirely like they moved out of olive hill kentucky and the activity ceased so that then led to like to this day local say olive hill in general is haunted sure and then that feeds into like giving the college investigators like a lot of validation because they're like okay so all of our research on why olive hill in general is haunted makes some sense that they were going to be haunted no matter

where they were as long as they were in this area. So it was a lot of like confirmation bias that Olive Hill is just a haunted town period. Investigators had a lot of theories about where the activity came from. Like I said, a lot of it felt like stretches, so I'm not really even going to entertain them. But the main running theory, which came from Billy Roll, who he at the time he was just starting out when he investigated this. And now he's this big prominent figure. but his whole special interest is psychokinesis or like moving things with your mind.

And so his big theory was that Roger was responsible for everything, but that he was dealing with a specific type of psychokinesis called RSPK, which means recurrent spontaneous psychokinesis. The recurrent meaning it's happening nonstop and the spontaneous meaning it was not intentional or conscious. Right. So it may have actually looked like polter guys activity. this is a big poltergeist theory that what are the odds a lot of poltergeist activity happens

in homes where the family has pubescent or about to be pubescent children and all of that energy swirling around them makes them have abilities or anything especially in like homes with like charge situations like i've heard stories where like one child was very ill and so it added so much stress to the family and like or like a divorce is happening yeah yeah it gives me chills all of that. So that's become the running theories that Roger did not know he was responsible for this, which feels like I guess we're alleviating half the victim blaming here. But it goes with most poltergeist theories that he was just responsible for it with psychokinesis. And they actually reached out to see if he would come to the lab with them. Like the investigators after

they were told to leave. They said, can he at least come back and we can test his psychokinesis and we can work with him at our place and the parents refused. They were like, we want nothing to do with you. And that was kind of the end of that relationship. Yeah, I mean, especially if you're, like, in a Jehovah's Witness community, I feel like that's not really like the vibe. Like, don't send them off to the lab. Let's not add to this. Yeah. They're not going to send him off to a lab. But they will do an exorcism. So that's fantastic. But it's their exorcism. Yeah. So, Well, sure. The investigators in total, I think they documented like 200 incidents in these few weeks that they were there.

And Roger was present, or at least in the room in some capacity, for 180 of them. Out of how many? At a 200. Oh, wow. Yeah. So that, I mean, that feels right. And I'm rounding up. It's like 170 something against 190 something.

I'm just saying 180 to 200. But so they were like, he's probably. probably involved. And after this, Billy Roll, as he grew in his career, he has stated that Rogers case of RSPK was one of the most authentic cases he's ever come across. Wow. Probably just because there were so many witnesses and there was no explanation. And that was like intense.

Like, I mean, tables flipping and stuff. They're ducking. Yeah. So anyway, that is the Olive Hill Poultergeist. Geez, I cannot believe I've never heard of that. That's freaking crazy. Yeah. And now next time you're rolling through Olive Hill, you go, this whole town is haunted apparently.

Oh, I've heard. I've heard on good authority. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, I have, I found this creepy, crampus coloring book that we can look at some cool imagery and maybe brainstorm topic first 500 in the Yappy Hour if you want. Oh, wonderful. Oh, my gosh.

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As of within the last five minutes. But I did lose my cell phone. Oh, here. Do people still say cell phone? Sometimes I wonder that. Like, because I normally, I would say I lost my, all right, I can't find my phone, obviously. But for some reason, sometimes I'll say, where's my cell phone? And I'm like, does anybody say that? Or is that just me like being a relic, you know? Your cellular device. Right. My, my mobile. Cellular telephone. I mean, I call it a P. home so I really don't get to yeah why the fuck am I asking you of all people um no my and in Germany they call it a handy like man handi oh that's fun yeah so I'm always like that's a good one but I don't know cell phone if that's weird I think I'm at an age where I wouldn't we wouldn't

bad an I probably no but I'm sure others would I see yes oh well you know frankly my dear I just don't give a damn. So as long as you don't, as long as you don't have a problem with me saying cellular device, then we're okay. I do not. Excellent. All right. So I have a story for you today. By the way, when I said we had an inside joke, don't worry. You're going to be part of the inside joke very soon because that's part of this story. Unfortunately, I've already warned him. Okay. So this is a very famous case that I have heard about a million times and am excited to cover and I'm realizing right in this very moment would have been perfect for episode 500. It's okay. That happens. Because it's also called the Yuba County Five and we really could have done some puns. I'm a little bit like,

why didn't I? Because also it's such a rabbit hole that I made myself limit the information because I was like, it'll go on forever and I don't, you know. So I've limited the information, but I feel like I could like speak on a lot of it. So if you have any questions, let me know. But I'm going to give the full background of the case. And it is creepy. I'm it's like really freaking creepy. Okay. So this is a group of five boys, but they're technically men, young men from Yuba City and Marysville, California. Their names were Ted Weir, who was 32, Jack Madruga, who was 30, Bill Sterling, 29, Jack Hewitt, 24, and Gary Matthias, 25. The five of them were close-knit and collectively they were referred to by their families as the boys.

Okay. Which, by the way, not like the TV show. I don't know if you watched that show, but that show. I have heard. It is traumatizing. I have heard. I watched it and I really feel that some of that has contributed to certain nightmares I have. It sounds bad. It sounds really violent. It's upsetting. Yeah. It's very good. It's a very good show, but it's Very, you have to be in that proper headspace. I mean, I obviously love a superhero show, but I also really don't like having anxiety when I'm relaxing. Oh, really? I've never heard of any other way, but anyway.

Well, all these people are like, oh, what do you mean you don't watch Gray's Anatomy or anything that makes you cry? And I'm like, why would I choose to cry when I'm trying to rest? Like, I don't need to have dark, bad thoughts in my head right before. Right. So that's how I feel about violent stuff too, where I'm like, if I see it, then I'm going to think about it all night. Yeah, it's disturbing. And like I didn't realize and then there's like a lot of like shock stuff, you know, and and I think like my system is so not used to that because I

never watched horror movies growing up. And so to me, I'm like, oh, I can handle like, like really fucked up stuff, but like I'm not necessarily used to shock value, like to the shock factor part. Right. And so and I don't even go to haunted houses. Like I don't, I don't engage in any shock factor stuff. So that part really through me. And I think I'm literally in this moment realizing like why I think it has stuck with me so much is because I'm not used to that. But like it's a shocking show. That's funny. The shocking stuff.

The shock, the, ah, part of it is nothing for me, but it's the emotional part of it. And it's disturbing. Like, but it's so well done, but it's so disturbing. You know what I mean? Anyway, okay. Anyway, shout out to the boys that are not these boys. Not these boys. But like, you know, same quote unquote name.

But they were called the boys and they were very close. Four of them men, and a part of the reason they were called the boys is that they were young in a lot of ways. Four of them, where Madruga, Sterling, and Hewitt had mild intellectual disabilities or developmental delays. We genuinely do not know the details because this, spoiler alert, takes place in the 70s. And so the verbiage used back then, like, leaves much to be desired in the way of, like, nuance and any sort of understanding besides, like, they're slow quote unquote or like something much worse yeah right that's just what their parents how their parents described it there wasn't much much more detail that you can find except they were all you know very functioning they lived like they did all live with their parents but they were all

to different degrees like very successful in whatever they were pursuing gary was the only one of the boys who did not have a disability. He was a U.S. Army veteran who had been given a psychiatric discharge and was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. And so he didn't have, you know, he, he was in a sort of, he came from a different group than some of them. Some of them met in the program I'm about to get into. But he had been in the U.S. Army. He was discharged and he had been prescribed daily antipsychotics. And by February 1978, Matthias was considered

by doctors to be basically like a medical miracle, not medical miracle, but like a total success case. Like he was so stable and so like successful in his just daily life that doctors were like, this is fantastic, this medication works great, and he was stable

at the time of this incident. So it's just important to note that. Okay. He was living at home at the time. He was working in his stepfather's gardening business. All five men played for a local special needs basketball team. And the name of the team was the Gateway Gators. Cool.

I know. It's pretty kick-ass. The team was scheduled to play their first tournament game in Sacramento on the morning of Saturday, February 25th, 1978. And all five men were, like, jazzed about this because the winners of this tournament won a trip to Los Angeles. And like the team literally won tickets or the trip to Los Angeles. So like they were excited.

And to the point that they were like bugging their parents about it because they were like, don't make, don't let me sleep in. Like, you know, like laying their clothes out early. Like they were just so very sweet, very jazzed and like very ready to kick ass. So they had everything set. And it's just so chilling. him. I don't know. This run reminds me of like, what's the story? I can't believe I just forgot it. But the, the young man from in Cal who just, who vanished in California and he drove off. Oh my gosh. I'm like the disappearance of. Right. Not, yeah. Brian Lus Pieces. Not Brian Schafe.

Les Pieces. Yes, that, that's the one. It gives that vibe where it's like they just drove away. That's crazy. I know. And with five people. five people. Wow. Okay, so around 6.30 p.m., Jack Madruga picked up the other four men in his 1969 turquoise Mercury Montego. And this car was like this teal turquoise color. He took pristine, he made sure it was pristine condition.

It was his prize possession, like his baby. Nobody else was allowed to drive it. So Jack picked up his friends, the other four guys, in this Mercury Montegas. ago. They drove roughly 50 miles north to California State University Chico because they were scheduled to go see a basketball game together between UC Davis and Chico State. So their team won. They were thrilled. Cool. Around 10 p.m., the basketball game ended and the men left the arena. We know that shortly after that, they stopped at a place called Bears Market, which was a convenience store near the campus in Chico. And we know this because they had purchased snack food

there. They purchased a cherry pie, a lemon pie, a Snickers bar, a marathon bar, two bottles of Pepsi and a quart and a half of milk. And the reason I said, this is how we know. That's not how we know. The reason we know is because the store clerk remembered them buying all those items and was annoyed because she was trying to close the shop and they were like five guys like causing, you know, mayhem in the store picking candies and stuff. So she was like the last verified person to see them alive, right? Obviously not knowing that in the moment, but just that was the last time. Anybody saw the five men alive confirmed. So the direct highway route from Chico back to their homes in Yuba City should have taken roughly 50 minutes heading south. They had maps with them. They

knew where home was. Like they were going home to sleep before the big game to They're very excited about it. They wouldn't have missed it. That's where we need to understand the weirdest part, which is that instead of heading south, they began to travel far to the northeast into rugged, high elevation terrain toward the Plumis National Forest. Okay. The middle of the night rolls around. One of the moms is, like, anxious because her kid's supposed to have come home by like 11 p.m. And these are young men who like have had to establish routine in their lives, right?

Because like they live with their parents and their parents have had to help like facilitate, you know, adult living for them. And they've all to varying degrees are independent. But, you know, they have routine. And so like they're not going to just all five be like out in the middle of the night, like partying it off, especially when they have like the game tomorrow. They just aren't. So when the mom wakes up and the kid's not in bed, she starts calling the other parents. And lo and behold, none of the kids have gotten home. So by Saturday, the police are alerted to the disappearance.

Do we we know that they drove off into the forest or do we know that their car drove off into the forest? So great question. You will shortly find out, yes. So not too long after that, a couple. Well, I mean, it was long in that the parents. waiting nightmare amount of time because Saturday was when they alerted police on Tuesday, February 28th, a U.S. Forest Service ranger located Jack Madrugas Mercury Montego, parked on an unpaved snow-covered forest road inside the Plumas National Forest. The car was located roughly 70 miles away from

Chico and 4,400 feet above sea level, so like far off of any logical path to Yuba City, Um, it was just sitting there unlocked. The, the driver's window was rolled down. Was it near anything where like, let's say somebody took their car and then, and clearly needed it to drive all that distance? Is it near anything that they would have wanted to drive to or it's just abandoned in a desert? It's not abandoned. It's basically a big wilderness. So like, yes and no.

Like if you were going camping and you wanted to like, find a particular campus spot maybe but also there was a blizzard on this night um and they're from like chico california they were not supposed to be driving into the mountains they weren't even dressed for that they were dressed for a basketball game and so like someone tried to abandon this car in the it's just so strange right because also when they take a look at it they find all the rappers well okay they find all the wrappers that of the candies then stuff they had bought at the convenience store except apparently the marathon bar was like not finished which i don't know what that says about a marathon bar what is a man hang on well please i don't even know to be honest it doesn't look good

it's important for me no a chocolate covered braided caramel oh so it's like oh i know those i think i know the british version with like the curly whirlies is the british version yeah yeah yeah yeah all right well that's i don't know why you wouldn't finish that okay yeah i don't know um so they find all the wrappers And the keys are not in the ignition. So at first they're thinking like, okay, maybe the car died. So the police hotwire the car, but it starts immediately. And it has a quarter tank of gas. So it didn't run out of gas.

Engine fully functional. They looked underneath the car. No dense, no damage, meaning like whoever drove this had been driving very carefully and cautiously. So they assumed Jack had driven it because he took such careful care of this car. and it had clearly been like driven very slowly up this mountainous road for some reason. They found no damage underneath. The tires had spun a little bit in the snow, but it was so out in the,

it was not in a spot where it would have been stuck. Like five men, especially they were like very, very like able-bodied. They would have been able to pretty easily push this car out. They were in their athletic prime, it sounds like. Exactly. I mean, they're training for a basketball game. Exactly. So they, it wasn't an issue of like, oh, their car was stuck and they couldn't get out and there was no other option. Like so just really strange already, right? So as this had happened, a severe blizzard, like I mentioned, was hitting at that exact time. Feet of snow were coming through. And for that reason, search and rescue teams were also unable once after they'd found the car to do much until.

they, the snow, you know, melted. So now we fast forward to June of 1978. The winter snow is melting when motorcyclists contact police and say they had been riding off-road and they had stumbled into a U.S. Forest Service trailer near the Daniel Zink campground. The trailer was located roughly 20 miles from where Madruga's car had been abandoned. And when they approached this trailer, they immediately noticed a smell of decomposition, which is why they looked inside. They saw a body and they contacted police. And honestly, if they had not discovered this just kind of off-roading that day, I'm not sure when.

Yeah. Yeah, this would have gotten discovered or been discovered. Police arrive inside. They find the body of Ted Weir. he's lying on a bed he's been like neatly wrapped head to toe in eight thick heavy cotton blankets

he the by the autopsy revealed he had died of starvation and hypothermia and when they found him he so before he had disappeared he was six foot 200 pounds he at this point they estimated

he had lost around 80 to 100 pounds and was now about 100 to 120 pounds That's he had starved that rapidly in a matter of weeks slash months. Oh my God. They used his beard growth to indicate how long he had been alive in the cabin, which is just also so morbid. And his beard growth indicated that he had survived inside this unheeded trailer for between eight to 13 weeks. Oh my God. Yeah.

He had starved to death over those months and had also suffered frostbub. and his shoes were missing from the house. Here's the strangest part, which a sheriff's deputy called bizarre as hell. This trailer was an emergency forest service trailer, and it had been equipped to the gills to keep people alive. What the fuck? And he didn't use any of it.

Some of it. Like it gets, oh, it's so chilling. Okay. So inside the trailer storage lockers, there were dozens of unopened sea rationed cans of food. There was a propane tank outside that all you had to do was like turn a knob. There was enough food in these lockers to keep all five men fed and warm for over one year. Wow. All five of them.

And there are disputes on whether all five were at the cabin at one point or not. It's very much giving yellow jackets. Speaking of another disturbing show that is very good, but also like, requires proper state of mind. How many people have we found so far? Two? Just one. Just one.

Okay. Yeah, we found the car. And then now we found Ted. In the cabin. In the cabin, yes. And they found that only 12 to 15 cans were ever opened over like a two to three month period. And now they had been opened with a military style. It's called a P38 can opener, which only two of the men would have known how to

used because they had done military service, which was Gary, Gary Matthias and Jack Madruga. So maybe Ted didn't know how to open the food? Exactly. So that could have been. But also there were like fruit cups and other rations. And also like he had been suffering from this frostbite and stuff. But there was a propane tank right outside the building. And so it was strange that like nobody, especially if somebody was able to use the military can open or somebody was able to use it to open 12 to 15 of them.

you'd think they would have figured out the propane tank or to bring it inside and heat up the place. There was also, there were matches, a fireplace. Like, none of this was used, which is so strange. Now, they also found fruit cups, other rations, paperback books, like just stuff that was there to keep the place like livable. Yeah, exactly. Like an emergency shelter. And like none of that was touched, which is so strange to me. even no you know at any level it's just strange um so when they found his body of course so so tragic they

found um next to him his ring his necklace his wallet with money in it we're all on the nightstand there was a watch there too that didn't belong to him and when they asked all the parents they were like none of our boys own that watch so nobody knows where the watch came from like it could very well have just been left at the emergency trailer by somebody the last person it was there yeah exactly so we don't necessarily know if it meant anything, but it was like laid out with his jewelry, which was interesting. Weir's shoes were also missing from the trailer,

like I said, but in the trailer they found Gary Matthias's sneakers. So police theorized that like Gary had been there and was able to open the cans and that kind of thing. And if he were also suffering from like swelling feet from frostbite, maybe he put on Weir's boots because they were big and more comfortable, you know, to wrap his feet up and put his feet in, which I think makes sense.

And if he were to leave the trailer, he's clearly not in it when they find Ted. So it's like, that's why the other guys shoes are missing then. Precisely, yes. And then he went missing and never came back so he couldn't open any more of the food. That is my theory as well. Yeah, that makes sense. I think that is my theory because, but you'll see, there's like so many rabbit holes and like twists and turns that, I mean, there are like multiple hour long YouTube videos that

I watched but was like I cannot I cannot do like maybe for the 500s. Yeah. Yeah. But like you know it's it's a lot. So I'm trying to stick to most just like the basics. But yeah, you can go down so many rabbit holes. And like there have been like investigators and online folks who've been obsessed and in healthy ways, maybe not so healthy ways. And I've tried to get to the bottom of different parts of it.

So you can really dig into it. But I'll give you the most the big, the big bullet points here. So regarding the other men. Monday, June 5th, so that was the following day. Searchers found the remains of Jack Madruga and Bill Sterling. They were on the, they were on opposite sides of the mountain road, roughly 4.3 miles away from where the car had been abandoned, on route to the trailer.

And so when they found the bodies, they had been heavily scavenged by animals. The cause of death was hypothermia. So it's presumed that they didn't make it past four miles on the walk to the trailer. Okay. And there was a snow plow of some sort that had gone through and paved an actual path. So there was a path that they were able to walk but 20 miles during a blizzard.

And these kids are not, these young adults are not like dressed for the elements. Also, none of them had any, like this was one thing. I found interesting. None of them had any like outdoorsy experience. They just weren't the type and they weren't interested. One of them had gone camping a few years prior, but then like said, no, I don't want to do that anymore, like didn't like it. Understood. Yeah, relatable. If you're looking for a good gift that's no fail, seriously, and the person is a wine drinker, you have to go with first

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which I will always be embarrassed for calling it Things You Should Know. Stuff You Should Know did a good episode on this. case, but they mentioned like they had both seen different facts about this that maybe Ted had gotten sick or was really not well. And so the boys all went to get help. And that's how they died. But I think the prevailing theory that I've read is that the two boys didn't make it or three didn't make it on the way to the trailer because they found two, four miles from the

car. and that's a long hike for not being prepared in any way. Was there like, this is stupid, but like could they've been like attacked by a bear or something? Like, no, because their cause of death was hypothermia. So then, so there. So the two that they found, yes, the one in the cabin was starvation and hypothermia. Right. No, the other ones that they found out on their way.

Yes. So the two bodies had died of hypothermia. Both of those men had died of hypothermia and then, um, animals got to their bodies afterward. Afterwards, okay. Yes, yes. There was a blizzard out, so there was like, no. It was just a total, like, snowstorm when they were out there. But also, like, again, why are they going up there?

They have a car that's functioning just fine. Like, why are you walking up here? It's, like, so strange all of it. Could it have been because it was so cold that their car stalled or something? And, like, no, I mean, like, they just, they just hot, wired it and turned right on. when the police came. So I don't, and he like knew his car, you know, like he was very, I mean, I can understand him maybe insisting like I don't want to drive my car in this, but also like to get out at midnight in the middle of a snowstorm and walk. I mean, so it's been argued right. Like, well, you know,

they had a disability and it's like, sure, I guess, I guess, yes, that may have played a part. It's just really unclear how much of a part and like, yeah. Do you know what I mean? It's really, it requires a lot of nuance because you just hear different angles from all the different families and like they were all dealing with different I didn't yeah it's just strange and like they were all very close so it's like they they had such a tight bond maybe they were just trying to stick together you know it's hard to say also with some of them having mental health factors you don't want to like use that as the full of reasoning of like what their judgment or what their ability to make decisions was, especially when they're panicked and scared.

Right. And that's the other thing is like, yeah, maybe it was a situation where they freaked out. Like maybe they hit a snow, you know, like a maybe they spun the car or something and we're like, who knows, right? Could there have been a situation where they were like how far away was the car from the cabin and all that? Because could they have gone back out to look for the car? Okay.

Because I was going to say maybe they went to look for the car and they did. to go get the car. And they just got spun around and they just couldn't find it. Well, no, they were on the right path. They were just only four miles. Oh, well, yeah, maybe they were trying to get the car and they just didn't make it. Very well could be. I think the prevailing theories that they didn't even make it to the cabin.

Like, they died on the way to the cabin, which I'm not sure of that. That's just where I read in most reports. So, man, that's what I think happened. And then they had to leave them obviously behind. and keep walking this path and then find the trailer. That has to be so sad to just fucking leave your friends in the snow. Jesus Christ. I know.

Oh, my God. So now we get to the point of like whether Matthias is like, whether his schizophrenia played a part or not, it's like, well, now his daily antipsychotics are not here. So whether he was stable at the time of disappearance and by all accounts was healthy and had no issues. and then all of a sudden, like, he's out in the wilderness with none of his medication in a traumatizing situation. Like, so he violence or could he? Like, who knows what happened, right? And he had had post-Army, he had several what his dad called like hysteric fits or something. Like something like so old school where he called them just like, oh, another one of those like hisy fits, not really good.

Or something like that. One of his spats or something. Well, yeah, something like where you're like, I don't think so. But so basically he had had incidents before, like violent outburst. And that's why he was medicated and the medication was working very well. But obviously it doesn't bode well to know that he has had off medication has had some very violent and paranoid outbursts. So or whatever, whatever dad wants to call it. Sure.

So this is probably the creepiest part to me. God, it just keeps getting worse, Christine. I thought you were good. No, I know. It gives me chills. It really is. So right around the time that they're discovering the car, a local man named Joseph Shones comes forward to police,

and he says he has a really odd story to tell, and it is a really odd story. So just like makes my stomach feel weird. I don't know. So he stated, he had been driving. up a mountain road on the evening of February 24th to check his cabin, but his truck got stuck in a snowbank. And so he is getting out, actually, it says truck, but I'm pretty sure he drove a Volkswagen Beetle. So I don't know why I wrote truck, but I'm pretty sure it was a Volkswagen

Bledles. Is a girly truck. Yeah. Super specifically. Yeah. Like my other car is a truck. Okay. But so he whatever, whatever source is what I use, but he got out and he was attempting to push his car and he had a heart attack. He's beginning to suffer a heart attack. And so he climbs back into his car, turns the heat on and is like, I know, like, I'm just going to like wade it out. Jesus Christ. Middle of a blizzard, right? Oh my God. Oh, my God. So he's horrible. Horrible. Oh, my God. So he, he just kind of lays in his vehicle in severe pain with the heater running and is like, I hope someone finds me before I run out of gas, basically. Jesus. He claims around 11.30 p.m. that night, he began to hear whistling.

Okay. He got out of his car and saw headlights parked a ways behind his truck and heard a group of people approaching and was like, oh, thank God, I'm going to be rescued. He saw what he described as five men and a woman holding a baby holding flashlights and walking up this, like, snowy hill. toward him. He says he called out for help, but they immediately all went quiet and turned off their flashlights. And he kind of like...

To be fair, if you're mid-heart attack, you're yelling for help probably just sounds like a... Like a... Probably scared them. It probably did scare them, yes. But I feel like if you're like, hey, I need help, I've had a heart attack. Oh, was he verbalizing that?

I don't know. I mean... Well, no, because I mean... I will say, say true it was okay good question because they also mentioned this on the podcast that uh he it was a mild heart attack and he the next morning was able to walk like eight miles back to where i think it was eight miles back to where he had last like had a drink that night before his car got stuck so like he it was mild enough that like by the next morning he was like walking eight miles okay so he was probably

verbalizing so i think at this point he probably was able to like at least express like hey something wrong. I need help, whatever. But either way, like, they turn off the flashlights and go quiet. He says nobody would answer his cries for help. And he eventually got back to the lodge and was able to seek medical attention. And police are like, okay, like, I don't know what this. At first, when they told, when he told them this, they were like, I don't know what this has to do with anything. And he goes, oh, on the way down, I saw a car as well. It must have been theirs. And they were like what kind of car? And he said, well, it was this teal or turquoise Mercury Montego. And they were like, oh shit. And he's like, yeah, it was just empty sitting there. So basically now there's like a

sighting, like a potential sighting. And with a stranger involved, like a woman with a baby, which I could, I don't know obviously what happened, but I could see. Hallucination. Oh. Oh, I was sorry. That's what they call. That's what they think it's a medical hallucination that like maybe he just was seeing thing. Like, but also then I'm like, but then why did you see five men that was a correct description, but then just like, my thought was I could have seen someone like if they maybe, I don't know their ability to make judgments or anything like that. But if they were missing this basketball game and like all this stuff that they,

I could see them at the gas station meeting a woman with a baby who said, help, I need a ride. And then it's just, she just kept going and going and going. going into the woods or something and them feeling like they couldn't say no or they thought it was going to be a shorter drive and it just kept it just never ended. Okay. So I mean, you're like on to something because the parents at the time especially were like, there is somebody else involved. Like our kids would not have just driven up a random mountain for miles.

Like somebody else is either involved or like something really wrong happened. But like this is not just them being careless, you know. I definitely think there was somebody. else involved in driving. So what do you think the motive would have been like a motive or just like she really needed a ride or was it like to like I don't know. I feel like I mean I always go straight into like some sort of trafficking which wouldn't really make sense with four teenage boys but maybe like robbing them like trying to drive them out into the middle and nowhere to rob them. But remember they found the wallet with his money still in it and stuff and you just starve to death out there. It's just so strange and like where did she go and like

maybe they she really needed a drive or a ride but then it was dark and it was starting a blizzard. So she even got lost and didn't know where to tell them to drop her off and then they all ended up but then like but then where the fuck is she you know that's terrible too that she had a baby it with her right and it's like well did anybody report that person missing but i don't think there was any report of a woman missing so it could have maybe they did drop her off and then they were trying to get home and they got turned around but then like why are they but all five wandering oh right they saw her in the woods and he's like oh they were whistling it's just so creepy i mean i don't know yeah like walking up the road um and so then he's like, oh, on my way back, I saw their car and the police were like, oh, shit, then that was

definitely them. So, yeah, very disturbing. They do eventually find, like I said, the body of Ted in the trailer. They find the bodies on June 5th of Jack and Bill about four miles from the car on route to the trailer, presumably, and heavily scavenged by animals. Cause a death is hypothermia. And then Tuesday, and this one's rough too. because Jack Hewitt was the only, Jack Hewitt and Gary Matthias were the only ones who were still

missing at this point. And Jack Hewitt's dad wanted to be part of the search party. And police were like, you shouldn't do that. But he insisted. And he found his son's clothes. And when he picked a piece of it up, a spine fell out. And so I know. I'm sorry. But that's how it is described in all the reporting. I know. I'm sorry. It's horrible. And so that was like a bear attack or something. Like how No, no, no, it was just a scavenged by, I mean, he'd been out there for months. Oh, oh, oh, I see. And so, like, he just had found a piece of his, like, clothes or whatever. And, like, yeah, it's horrible.

Yeah, it's really horrible. So he was able to identify that, like, the shoes and clothes were his sons. Now, Gary's body was never located to this day. We still don't know where Gary is. I mean, like, if all that was left of someone who was found was a spine, like, all it takes is one more animal picking up the spine and bringing a couple more winters of, you know, years and decades of yeah, yeah. And that's like what I mean, that's what I assume just, I think just got taken away. Yeah. Something just, yeah. So search crews did find, um,

the tennis shoes with weir, which we know, um, leading investigators to believe that like, that he just switched shoes when he went out because his feet were probably swollen from, um, or maybe he wanted to put on like extra socks or, you know, whatever. whatever. Um, so here's some other like theories slash unexplained parts of this that like just are worth noting. So there is no explained connection between any of the young men and the town of Quincy or Plumis National Forest. Um, they had never expressed interest in visiting. Um, Gary was said to have some like former friends who lived like a town like past it, but they even they were like, no, there's no reason he would have driven here, especially in the middle of the night.

And we haven't even heard from him in years. And also, like, they had this game tomorrow. And it was important to all five of them. And I don't think any of them would have been like, yeah, let's go for a joy ride into up a mountain for no reason. It's just so strange. And they knew their way home. They had four maps that were like very clearly, here's mountain. You know, it's not like they couldn't figure that out. It's just so strange. And the amount of time he took. to drive miles up the snowy road with that little car is like for what but you're right like maybe it is that they picked someone up and we're giving them a ride i think that's what it was i'm pretty confident though that's what it was it feels like what it would be he hate like he himself um madruga

whose car it was like he hated to drive in snow he hated his car getting dirty right like none of them even like being cold. Like, it's just so strange. The other thing is like walking that long distance through the woods to get to this trailer. It's like, I guess there was a paved path, but like the fact that they didn't get in the warm slash like functional car and drive back down the mountain instead of up it. And if you were going to walk 20 miles, wouldn't you walk back down the mountain? because then you'd get back to where you were. It's just so strange.

Maybe one of them knew it. No, I see, I don't know. Now, another theory is that, like, maybe, maybe they had, like, qualms about, like, no, that doesn't make sense either. I hate that theory. That makes me mad. It's a theory about, like,

them not understanding, like, ethics or morals or something. And I'm like, I don't think so. I'm not even going to go there. So there is some people have theorized that, like, perhaps Gary, Gary's mental illness did play a part here. Like, unlike the other four men who had intellectual or developmental disabilities, Gary Mathias had average intelligence, military experience, but paranoid schizophrenia as well. And he required that daily medication and he left home without it.

I mean, obviously he thought he was coming back. So it wasn't like that was weird. Right. But also, I mean, some people have speculated. and this is like maybe a reach because how on earth can you speculate this and I don't have enough sources but someone was saying well maybe he didn't want to take the meds before the game because they did his parents did say they made him very drowsy which he didn't like so it's like some people argued maybe he didn't take his meds because he wanted to be fit for the basketball

it doesn't matter either way like you know some people have said perhaps like he had some sort of episode and like convinced them and they didn't maybe understand his his illness enough to know, like, that this was an episode of paranoid schizophrenia rather than, like, a real scenario. So maybe he did have an episode and, like, somehow led them up this path by force or by just convincing your conviction, you know, I'm not sure. It's like really how could you know? It could be anything. You really couldn't know. Yeah. And it could be, it could have nothing to do with him. It could. Exactly. Totally have everything to do with him. I mean, it could be any of it. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, it was like, of course, people were side-eyeing, you know, because it's like,

while. Oh, and she's gone. Hello? Are you all right? Oh, dear. That's creepy. Oh, hold on. One moment.

It was like the credits said, starring Christine. I just realized my camera died. I forgot to plug it in. No worries. The like cam link thing showed, logo showed up. Okay. I was like, wow, fade to black. Okay.

Talk about like a fucking. vaudeville came like bye pull the plug on me okay so uh the shoe swap thing kind of like proves to people that matthias was in the trailer with weir especially if he was one of the people who could open the cans and if the other one had already died on the way there it's like well then maybe he was the one who was there helping open the cans and like the thing you said right off the bat i was like that makes the most sense to me that for whatever reason they ended up there um but part of me is like then why did he starve over a months of long time and not like turn on a fire? I don't know part of me this is I don't I don't know anything obviously but I would feel like if that woman and the baby existed

I could see them saying like here you know take some food with you as when you find and here's the can opener or something. It will figure out how to open the rest of the can. Well, the can opener was there. Oh, was there? It was just only, only two of them would have really known how to use it because it was like some specialty. But like there was also food that didn't require a can opener.

Which like maybe they didn't know it was in the locker. And I think Ted was like missing his toes. Like I think he had really suffered this hypothermia. But it's also so strange that nobody thought to like turn on the propane tank right outside or like start a fire in the fireplace. And I, but we don't know their mental level. We don't know. No, and we don't know.

And like, they're able to operate a car. Someone must have known how to do something. That's what I'm saying. It's like, it's so hard to know because it's like we don't even know if all five of them made it to the cabin or if two of them died on the way or three of them died on. I have no idea. It's just it's so hard to know. And so like I think it makes sense that if three of them made it, the two who died like

right near each other, if they passed away on the way to the cabin and then the three remaining. Maybe Ted was, this is also what they said in stuff you should know, but like maybe Ted was in like really bad shape. And so Gary was like, oh, you know, you go get help to Jack. And maybe he went to go or to find the car like you said and like went off trying to find it, got lost, died. And then Gary eventually was like, well, shit, I can only open this many cans and like, I have to go look for help myself, you know, or something. Or both of them left at the same time. Or wait, he was, he was found though, right? but also like he was layered in blankets of like head to toe i don't know i was going to say what if they said you're clearly in a bad spot you just stay here by yourself and i'll open some cans for you yeah and we're both going to leave and go find the car yeah and then that's why he was completely by himself and did probably didn't need to know how to use the can opener if he thought they were going to come back within the next day yeah um also like what year was it because i know like if i saw a can opener from 10 or 15 years before, I'd be like, what the fuck is that?

Like, the can opener, they come in all shapes and sizes. And sometimes I've looked at them and didn't even know they were a can opener. No, no, this one you like need to be trained to use, I guess. It was like some military grade to open military. He might just have fucked. Food. That doesn't explain the fruit cups, though. Well, but it does if he doesn't have toes and he can't walk and maybe he's so ill that, like,

he can't get out to the shed. And also maybe he's, because, you know, they say when you're frostbitten, like, your brain chemistry tells you you're like, boiling hot. Like, and that's why they find a lot of people naked. Like, maybe he just wasn't even, maybe he'd lost all ability to even know that he was hungry. Like, maybe they had like left pretty early on and only left him with a certain amount of food and he had just like rationed it. I don't know. It's terrible either way. But it. But it also is just so strange that like, there's no explanation for any of it. Like why they even were there or why they even went off the

wrong road. It's just so weird. And you don't. You think it's like a like a murderer because otherwise like they I mean I don't think it's a murderer but like to just leave so much evidence of well The family thought some of the families thought it was foul play they were like they wouldn't have just been up there like someone was either rationing the food and not allowing them to eat or like someone was holding them hostage but it's also like who and why was it like the woman and then why would they leave his body there unless they thought no one was ever going to see him So strange all of it doesn't really like none of it really make it really make it really makes it. sense. Maybe the woman, I mean, also, like I, I, I would have like the, someone told them the food wasn't good or it was spoiled or something. Like, I don't know what.

I mean, I would still eat rotten food if I was that hungry, but maybe they were told, maybe the woman, if she was there, told them like, oh, don't eat that food because that's, I don't know. I have no fucking idea. I have no fucking idea. I mean, the food like that. Yeah, I know. I mean, but why?

I don't know. I have no idea. It's just so strange. So and then it's because, you know, they never found Gary's remains also that like there's lingering suspicion among like armchair, you know, experts. And researchers and stuff that like he could have survived. But I really doubt it. I think I think it's a scenario where like just the most tragic thing happened and like it went as badly as it could have gone. And like who knows what happened or how they got there.

but I mean, like Gary had been medically stable for two years. Actually, in a 2020 internal sheriff's memo, they said Matthias that Gary Matthias was actually a presumed victim of foul play. And so like even the sheriff's department was like, we don't think he had anything to do with it, like in terms of like causing it or creating it. Sure. But yeah, it's just really like intentionally. But yeah, it's really strange. But it's also strange. They said he could be a victim of foul play though, because it's.

It's like by who then? Like, I don't know, man. And they, I got to get more answers on this one, dude. That's a, I have no idea. It's just so sad and strange. Yeah. Wow. And what's this one called?

The, well, some people call it the disappearance of Gary Matthias because they never found his body or him. But the Yuba County five is what it's. also also commonly referred to. I feel like that's something I'm going to watch a lot of the YouTube videos on. Yeah, it's really worth like going down some rabbit holes because I feel like it's been simplified in so many, it's been simplified to just like, oh, well, they just didn't know how to do anything. And it's like, no, you know, it's not that. Something happened. Yeah.

So that's all I got for you. I can't imagine the headache it was to even have. to research that. That sounds like a lot of mis, a lot of loose arms, a loose branches off a tree. Yeah, well, I mean, I'm fortunate that so many people have already researched it, that it's kind of like, okay, there's a pretty solid narrative here. I just had to pick and choose, like, which rabbit holes to go down, which ones to not, and et cetera. Man. Yeah. I mean, you know I love an unsolved mystery, but.

But also hate it, yeah. Matt, I can't solve it. It's rough. One of these days, I'm going to solve one of them, and I'm every, you know, you'll all see, you know? All of you're going to go, holy shit, they did it. It's finally been done. They said it couldn't be done. It's been done. Yeah.

Wow. That'll be a great day. Great day. No. What's your gut feeling? Final thoughts? I think that I have no idea. I think that woman was, I think there was a woman with a baby.

I think, or I think there was someone, I don't know who, but someone asked for a or did something that brought them out there. I don't think they just did it for fun. Yeah, no, see, that does make sense. I think your version is the most compelling, and I don't know why that's not discussed more often. So I'm sort of like, that seems reasonable. I don't know why it's not, maybe it is a main theory that I missed,

but I feel like that's... It feels like if you're holding a baby and there's five, like, sensitive guys who might feel like they have to say yes. And want to like be do the right thing. Yeah. I don't know how they would all fit in a car unless they can sit more than five people. Okay. So this car I do know apparently is like real.

It's like a dozy of a car like a. Oh, well that's, I called them like a land boat. Okay. Well, yeah, then I would think that she said, can you give me a ride? And then either it ends up being way farther than she thought or they got lost or they got lost or they heard about the blizzard and thought maybe they should park for a second. And then it got super cold while they thought they'd wait out the storm. So they had to go find shelter. Imagine like a baby crying through it.

A baby crying. I mean, I'm serious. Like, that sounds. Or maybe they, maybe that woman was also in the cabin with them at some point. True. Like, nobody probably would have even thought of that. And maybe she took some of the food to help her out while she, like, just walked to go get help. But like, you don't light a fire.

I mean, come on. Like, you don't light a fire. You don't like. Yeah. Maybe none of them knew how to use a propane tank. I don't know how to use one. No, literally, though, there's matches in the room. And fire.

I mean, it's all set up to be like. a survival thing. And there's literally propainting and they made the point of saying like, you just turn a knob. And one of them worked for like a gardening business. I mean, these are like, they're not like outdoorsy people, but they're like handy, you know, enough to you'd think, but maybe not. Maybe like if three of them don't survive on the way there, it's like, first of all, traumatizing. Maybe the woman and the baby didn't survive and that was traumatizing. And like now there's two guys left and they're trying to, and one doesn't have his medication, you know like it could have been anything that like we just don't even know i think that's a good point i think

maybe the woman and the baby didn't survive and they also just got picked up and carried away who knows yeah because i mean there was a description like that the land can just kind of in that that just sort of over seasons like you know i mean you just kind of lose track of or i wonder if there was ever um if there was a woman and a baby or someone who lured them out there maybe they already got dropped off and then they by themselves got lost and maybe the guy who swears that he saw five guys and a woman with a baby, maybe he just miscounted and it was the five guys and one of them was like holding the other one while they were walking through the,

while they were walking through the snow. Or carrying just like a backpack, who knows, like a, their basketball bag or something, who knows. Yeah. But yeah, good point. Because maybe something else lured them there, but he misinterpreted the group and like, yeah, great point. Or not even lured them there.

Like maybe somebody had just like said, I need a ride and then like got dropped off and then they got lost or something. And they got lost and they had to go find somewhere to be warm. What's weird is like leaving the car there. Also like, yeah, I mean. With a with gas turning on just fine. When you just sit in the heated car. And the heater, they took the keys with them.

It was just strange. And they clearly didn't leave because they were like super hungry. Do you think that trailer was on a map? Like maybe they had a map that showed the trailer and they were able to like, I don't know if that's, maybe that's unreasonable. I'm not sure. It is interesting that they happened to find a cabin in the woods that had. all these things. But I think that's why it was mentioned that like a snowplow had paved like a pretty flat, a path. And so I think like they were following a path, but it was like a 20 mile like. And dark. Blizzard in middle the night dark. So you could very easily fall off the path. And they were barely. Well, no, I think they were like snowed in basically. But like, oh, like walls of snow around them. But it's they, you know, to get hypothermia there, you're pretty fucked. Right. Like four miles into the hike. It's like you either keep. going or go back and

I'll tell you everyone was having a fucking bad time on that road because even that other guy was having a fucking heart attack in the middle of the woods. The fact that this starts with a guy having a heart attack being like, oh, I saw something really weird and they're like it's a hallucination. Like, no, it's five people who died. Yeah, it sounds like if he was able to walk eight miles

the next day, I don't think he was having a hallucination mid heart attack. I mean, it could be. Maybe, but I don't know. I don't know, man. I think we've, I think we've answered some questions for people. Also, it's just, I can't. Yeah. I would just stop. I would just never stop. So anyway, well, thank you for

for really listening to our podcast. If you'd like to follow us on socials where Megan takes these moments and turns them into just nice bite size. Perfect clips. Little, little treats. You can find us at ATWWD podcast.

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