And That's Why We Drink - E60 A Brief History of the Indianapolis Urgent Care and A Distorted View of Ice Cream

Episode Date: March 25, 2018

It’s episode 60, and we’re bringing our A-game, if we do say so ourselves. Em covers the Central Indiana State Hospital for the Insane, a psychiatric treatment hospital in Indianapolis that saw a lot of inhumane treatment, patient suffering, and possibly an emotional support canary. Meanwhile, Christine covers the Yorkshire Ripper, AKA Peter Sutcliffe, AKA Peter Pan, who murdered countless women and also jumped into some graves. By the way, if you’re wondering, Em is not a pier. (or a pee-er.)Come meet us at CrimeCon 2018 this May in Nashville, TN! Get a surprise gift from us when using promo code “ATWWD”! https://www.crimecon.com/Please consider supporting the companies that support us! Visit HIMS.com/ATWWD for a trial month of Hims for only $5!Hello Fresh - Use promo code DRINK30 for $30 off your first week of Hello Fresh! Visit www.tryfirstleaf.com/drink to get your introductory three-pack of wines for only $15!

Uh, remember that time we gave our moms the best Mother's Day gift of all time? Yeah, that song we got from Songfinch. I mean, I still sometimes listen to it. I do too. If you guys ever want to travel back to our, uh, one of our earlier episodes during Mother's Day. Take a trip. Take a trip because we got this awesome song made by a company called Songfinch, where they took our personal memories and wrote like

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20 off your song you won't regret it you'll love it like we did and please if you do use it share the song with us we'd love to hear it why are you laughing because um my boss does this thing where i get every thursday i get weekly live texts from her like live responses as she listens to our podcast uh today it started out with you can go ahead and tell christine that i don't kill living organisms but gnats and flies don't fucking count kill them all was that from way back when no remember you had a fly in your cup last week oh oh she said that i thought she was like quoting you no no she's just letting me know that i should let you know that's our living creatures

no they're not um she also i told her that i'd probably just say that on the show and she said great i feel like a million fucking bucks oh man i love it so anyway her name renee renee that's my best friend's name oh well your best friend and my boss are the same person i guess clearly um anyway why uh hi hello hello anyway i'll be getting texts about this exact thing next thursday that's trippy whoa whoa whoa is it whoa is me christine tell me about your day. Okay, here's what's happening. I'm really in need of a stiff drink. Oh, well, you're not on your whole 30 anymore. Thank goodness.

Because I'm a seasoned traveler. Oh, my. And sometimes things just go awry. Even when you're a seasoned traveler. Explain to me just what you mean. Again, Sober Christine. Sober Christine is not our friend, because every time Sober Christine comes out to play, trouble happens.

I don't know what the deal is, but you just need to have a glass of wine in your hand at all times for nothing to go wrong. The wine bra, I need make more better use of it you were on the plane i should have made better use of it all the security probably would have been like why are your boobs liquid why you can't carry four ounces of liquid why are you lactating wine oh gross um someone invent that trademark okay so i i was like let's leave for the airport at two and blaze is one of those people who gets like really, he wants to leave for the airport like 17 hours early.

So he's like, no, we got to like hurry up and go. So we're there and he's like stressed because he thinks we're going to miss the plane. And it's Cincinnati. And I'm like, don't worry about it. Like we're not going to miss the plane. We have plenty of time. Security is short. We're in security and Blaze's Delta app stops working

and his ticket is like, you have zero tickets available. And so he starts panicking and just goes like running like just turns me and goes well i have to go to the check in line leaves me in security and like takes off and he's like get on the plane if i don't make it and i was like what the hell so i really keep going through security and i find i'm like whatever he's being dramatic so i get to the gate and he's like I'm on my way and I'm like they haven't even started boarding yet so he gets there and we're both out of breath and we're like we made it and then I looked at him and I was like where's my bag and he was like I thought you had it and I was like no I thought you had it and he was like Christine I gave it

to you and I was like no you didn't you ran. Turns out he had like dropped it next to me as he was running to the gate or to the check-in counter. And I had no idea. So I just kept walking with the crowd and it was left in the middle of the TSA line. And so I'm like, fuck. And he's like, just leave it. We're not going to make it. And I'm like, no, I'm going to make it. And so I start like running all the way down. And since then he has like this fucking mile long thing. so I'm running past all the like little trains and stuff yeah and I finally make it there and I'm like and I get these texts from Blaze and he's like come back you're not gonna make it I promise I'll replace everything in your bag and I was like you can't replace a 2002 Spongebob landline phone because my mom had like found it amongst my belongings and so I packed it in my bag I saw that you tweeted that out or like posted that screenshot of your text with blaze and I thought there was no way that was actually a real text it was like I thought you saw that online somewhere and was like oh this is similar to conversations I've had with blaze no had no idea that was actually like something you wrote you thought I just like photoshopped the name

blaze onto it I thought it was just like a tumblr post i didn't really are you serious it looks stupid enough to be one yes so i'm like you can't replace my two you can replace my clothes but you can't replace my spongebob landline phone and so i'm like and he's like within seconds he sends me an amazon link to the fucking exact same and i was like that's not the point. So I went running and I got to TSA. And like, lo and behold, there's fucking security agents going through my shit with gloves. And like, okay.

Oh, because I think it's a bomb. Yeah, because it was dropped in the middle of the security line. Oh, no. Yeah. Like a big black double bag. And I'm like, fuck. So I run over to these guys and they're just like, what is it? And I'm like, man, I left my bag on the floor. And they were like, oh, my God.

But also, like, someone would put a bomb in something as fucking shady as a 2002 SpongeBob Landline. Well, thank you. I know. So I'm like, how the fuck do you explain that away? Well, so he goes, this is normal for to be in my bag. He's like, what was in the bag? And I was like, clothes, my clothes.

I don't know my underwear, my clothes. And he's like, what else? I was like, I had some shoes in there. He's like, okay, but that's not enough description to like, give you the bag back. And I was like, there's a SpongeBob phone. And he just like, okay, is this what you want? Is that what you want for me? I'll admit it. I'll admit it. So I said it out loud. And they both kind of like, looked at each other. And he's like, all right, just just go get it and so i got it back and i ran all the way there back to the gate we were like happy i was like thank god we did it and then i see these people like laughing or pointing at us i'm like why is everyone pointing at us then he was blazing i'm wearing the same shirt so i didn't know that's just like a little

detail we were wearing the same and that's why we drink shirts so we looked like big dorks i thought all these people were like oh they're so cute no they just were like why are they wearing matching shirts the airport and then i fucking get on a plane and i get all the way to la and we're waiting for our uber the uber's pulling up and i go i don't have my phone and so then we spent the next three hours i got a security pass to go back into the airport, into like the pass security. Had to go back through security. Looked everywhere for my phone. Nobody had it.

Blaze was pissed because he was like, how do you keep doing this? And then finally we got home and I'm like, I don't have a phone. We had like, you and I had. Oh, you had a phone. What? Oh, I had a landline. You had a 2002 SpongeBob phone. I was like, I jinxed myself because I was like, I can't go anywhere without that spongebob phone and then everyone the universe was like fine we'll take your iphone

instead and i was like that was not an equal exchange not a trade-off not a good trade-off so i was really pissed at myself for losing on the plane turns out someone fucking snatched it out of my bag at the airport like in an elevator like someone actually stole your phone like pickpocketed me which is the second time that that's happened. Oliver Twist. Like Oliver twisted me in an airport or in an elevator. And then they fucking turned it on in downtown LA and then turned it off immediately. So I had to go out and shell another like what, 800 bucks on iPhone this week, which was not in my budgetary plans. Anyway, I'm sweating a lot right now.

So can you start talking? Yeah. So then the next day, Christine goes out to a bar with me and allison and blaze and alexander there and a bunch of our friends we're having a little get together forgot about this and christine's like it's the only thing i've ever like really lost that was super important all of a sudden then like 10 minutes later blaze is like looking under the table and at like other tables farther away than where we have even been and he's like christine what the fuck is wrong with you christine's like what's going on and blaze literally goes to the ground and picks up her social security card like four tables away

from where we were even sitting and then she was like how did that get there and then he was like and then he walked to another table like two tables away and was like is this your insurance card and then just a bunch of paperwork my library card was at another table i don't know how that happened well and then i was like i didn't bring my social security card and he's like christine it's your social security card what do you mean like obviously and i was like i can't argue with that so basically christine can't be trusted with anything personal or expensive or irreplaceable. I'm literally so embarrassed right now. Anyway, that's what happened.

So why are you drinking? I'm drinking because Mercury's in retrograde for the next three weeks. I know. I think that's what I blame my social security and my phone on. Yeah, but it also went into retrograde this morning. I know, but it was like the pre... A little preemptive like pms pre-metro oh right pre-mercury like you're not it's not you're not actually experiencing pre-mercury itself pre-mercury season right you just have the cramps and you're pissed the bad parts

where i just you know yes okay physiological. Okay. Physiological retrograde. It's like the universe is on its period. Oh. And I suffered the consequences. So you're ovulating is what's happening. Yes. Isn't that the week before? Yes.

I don't know. Okay. Blaze, are you there? Blaze, are you, Blaze? Okay. So also I, my laundry, no, my laundry machine's fine. My dryer is broken. Oh, I was supposed to bring laundry to do all we record.

Oh. Whoops. So, um, so I can't do my laundry. You and Allison just like bring your laundry over nowadays. Well, I was about to become another Allison. I've never actually done laundry at someone else's place, but today was going to be the first time. And then I forgot.

I'm sorry. Your dryer's broken. I am too. I went to, I'm going to sound like the most spoiled fucking person on earth, and I know it, but I had never gone to a laundromat before this week. Today I went to a, or Monday I went to a laundromat for the first time. I looked like an idiot. I looked like a total idiot.

Like the guy who worked there was like, you've never gone to a laundromat before, have you? And I was like, is it obvious? I mean, I was going to say at least you weren't holding Starbucks, but I don't know that for a fact. So no, I was not holding Starbucks. Thank God. But I went in there with my clothes. And apparently the place that I went to doesn't do coins anymore. They do like a card. Is that common now? I don't know. I think so. Yeah. Well, so I was like, how do I get a card and put money on it? And he was like,

you're standing right next to the machine. And I was like, well, fuck me. So great. So I already looked like an idiot there. It's like they have

in some apartment buildings. Oh. You know. Oh, yeah. I just never thought about it. I don't know. Anyway, it went fine.

I just, it was an experience. And the guy definitely watched me the entire time because he assumed that i was gonna fuck up at some point i'm just gonna break all the machines like i've done my laundry before just not in a public place you never know in la i mean they have all these services i thought you were gonna say i sound like spilled brat i had someone like pick up my laundry and do they had an option called like fluff and fold where you drop it off overnight and you come

back and pick up your laundry i almost did that i'm tempted to do those sometimes when it's i mean before i had a laundry machine like a washer dryer i so was tempted sometimes when i was working to just like hire one of those people to like pick my clothes up drop them off folded i was like what a brilliant fucking invention i mean i thought about doing it and i literally only stopped myself because i was like that's too fucking bougie this guy has been staring at me for two hours. I have to at least try the laundromat on my own once before I like purchase a fluff and fold service. You're so brave.

Yeah. My mother would probably hiss at the thought of me in a laundromat, but here we are. I can just hear everyone applauding you and your bravery. No, I can hear the other 50% of our listeners rolling their eyes at how fucking spoiled I've been where I never had to go to a laundromat before. First world problems. We're full of them. Anyway, that's why I drank because I had to do my laundry. Must be hard.

Out of my own home. Must be hard. I just wanted to say that, first of all, this episode is dedicated to one of our patrons named Aaron May. Aaron May. I thank you for sponsoring this episode. Mother, may I? No, Aaron. Aaron, may I?

Aaron, may I? Aaron, may I continue to thank you? Yeah, okay. Okay, so thank you, Aaron, for supporting us for, I think, five months now. At the $25 level. Aaron, Aaron, he's like putting us on his bankroll, man.

Thank you. Kindly. Thank you. Kindly. Um, I also want to say if you're on the fence about crime con, consider this your sign from the universe. This is your sign.

We're telling you we're working. I don't know if M knows this. So, Oh God, sorry. Um, once again, I'm the irresponsible one.'s hear it uh we're

working on possibly putting together a live show at crime con yeah i it's i see here's the thing i did not know but i also i told myself to expect yeah i thought you maybe had i have been cringing white knuckling pretending it wasn't going to happen since I found out we even got invited to CrimeCon. Yeah, and... Is it definitely happening and you're just trying to, like, wean me into this? Well, we don't have an official, like, time slot. And she said she was going to work on that this weekend, let us know if we get a time slot. But I think it's going to happen.

Do you hear that, everyone? So we're going to be there doing our first live show ever, by the way. If you use code ATWWD, email us if you use the code so we can get you your free gift um we're gonna do a meet and greet and we'd love to see you even if you're just in nashville we're gonna go out to a bar on saturday night and do a big meetup so we'll be there if you're there we'll be there also speaking of live shows guys remember what we hinted at last week knock on wood but it's happening oh i'm holding my breath for this one you don't want to talk i don't want to i this is exactly how i'll sound on stage guys

oh my god m's actually mute i'm going to take over the whole show uh yeah we're doing a live show guys we're doing we're doing it in los angeles yes in hollywood well that you know a lot of people strive to end up in hollywood and we're starting in hollywood it's amazing it's terrifying it's terrifying and amazing anyway so the details are coming up soon but um it's a real it's a pretty small venue so once the tickets come out you kind of got to get them up yeah right away especially because renata's flying out to la and so i envision a couple people are going to be buying tickets so oh we're gonna post that on twitter we're gonna post it on twitter and on facebook the second tickets go live we believe the event is going to take place may 20th that's a sunday

at 9 30 p.m. So at the Hollywood Improv. So get ready. Tickets are going to be $20. Keep an eye on our social media so you can grab a ticket when you get the chance. You can meet Renata, have a drink. Yep. Watch me pass out on stage.

It'll be a good time. Watch Em's downfall. Oh, it's already begun. So sorry we talked so much. I'm ready to go whenever go whenever you actually i'm not because i need a drink but then i'm ready to go okay so should we go get drinks yeah okay guys just listen to this commercial while we're at it okay okay we are on air did you enjoy that commercial was it good for you yes i did oh you're not talking to me no oh we didn't listen to it we just said it we just plugged i bet we were so funny we are i know we were funny we weren't you want to hear a story that's how i feel about being on stage by the way no i want to

hear another commercial ready no i'm just kidding also guys please if you do come to our live shows please laugh like obnoxiously loud like my biggest fear is that like i've i think it's really afraid i've addressed this to christine but here's the thing that none of you are aware of or maybe you're aware of but like it's probably a slim pick interview that the awareness that christine and i when we record these like we don't hear anyone laugh. We need to entertain each other, which is not very hard. So in my mind, I mean, not even in my mind, in reality, I've never heard anyone laugh to the show. So the thought of going on a stage, never having heard anyone react to us, freaks me out,

because for all I know, it's just going to be silent. I keep saying that and i'm like it's fine but then my throat starts closing up and i'm like oh no it's fine but i also hope i don't make it i hope i don't get there oh my god yeah people are always like oh i laughed so hard and i'm like i'm like why and did you didn't you're lying i feel like everyone's just been kind to us like deborah stop making shit up can you guys just keep being kind to us and just laugh really hard or just make shit up and just keep keep the joke going and guys if a heckler's out there can you please defend them because i'm gonna have no don't defend them

defend us oh yeah jesus everyone was like okay wait don't defend christine and m leave the heckler alone they have rights no if someone tries to heckle us i'm telling you i'm gonna be on like a dissociative fugue so people don't pay okay just we're not at the level where we have hecklers where people pay good money to come see people and yeah does that mean that's something we have to progress to i'm shit i'm just saying people like lisa lampanelli get hecklers because they like have some negative thing to say let's just call lisa lampanelli and have her deal with the hecklers personally in the audience oh my god what if she just stands behind us the whole time and waits ideal okay let's get through this all right let's change the subject because now i'm sweating again

okay so this is a story from terry oh hi terry terry terry recommended this one. This is from Indianapolis, Indiana. It's not the story. It's the actual story of Indianapolis, actually. No. A brief history. The story of Indianapolis. Thanks, Terry. This is Terry's personal story.

It is the entire history of Indianapolis. No, I meant the story in where my brother stayed in indianapolis no but what a good story can you imagine if i actually just gave you notes on the same fucking story we've already heard from your brother told it in eight seconds he didn't tell like he said there's some lady that died and she's a ghost that's not the story of the story saying that a little loud when his bedroom door is cracked open all right listen a brief history of indianapolis a brief history of a building in indianapolis called the central state hospital oh god i'm already scared all the hospital ones freak me the fuck out really for me it's the jails

it's a hospital i mean it's the things i mean really what's the difference between a hospital and a jail i mean you're you're trapped in both of them and there's authority telling you you can't leave and it's so deep wow i mean not everyone go check out my life journal rice pudding nine or whatever shut the fuck up all right lefty sponge here's what i have to say what in a hospital i mean if it's is it like an asylum hospital or is it like a because a regular hospital asylum oh because i was in a regular hospital no one like forces you to stay well i feel like if i'm telling you the history of a hospital we're clearly not talking about a present-day hospital we're not talking about we're not talking about like a 2017 hospital kaiser permanente in hollywood so this is the story of the indianapolis urgent care a brief history of indianapolis urgent Care. A memoir. From Terry.

From Terry. At Urgent Care. A day in the life. One time Aaron got a really bad UTI and ended up in the Indianapolis Urgent Care. I mean, it sounds like a horror story. Who the hell's Aaron? Oh. Did I say Aaron?

You said Aaron. That's who's hosting this episode. Oh, right. Oh, yeah. Aaron, can you write in, actually, and talk about your UTI that you had at kaiser permanente one time a brief history would you i just saw your patreon profile and i was like oh this guy looks like he's had a uti at an indianapolis urgent care he just reads that i met terry but aaron whatever i don't know the difference maybe they both have an experience together so this starts in 1848 i'm sorry okay 1848 1848 got it um also really regretting not

using my laptop today um holy shit that is size negative eight font okay do you need me to turn this big light no i want i want the mood okay just i'm just gonna be my grandfather and use my phone light to read why don't you put on the actual light and not just put on your... Okay. All right. Cool. All right. Is the mood better for you now with a flashlight gleaming into your eyeballs?

No, I offered to turn the light on, so don't look at me. Okay. Is this better for you? Does this still feel festive? Let's just stop. I'm just going to make my 25-year-old eyes work. Okay. let's just stop i'm just gonna make my 25 year old eyes work okay so in 1848 the indiana it's not working so far the indiana what is i told mercury's in retrograde you called it indiana

the indiana hospital urgent care i need care. I think I'm having a stroke. Oh, no. It's contagious. The Indiana Hospital for the Insane. Oh, okay. There we go. That sounds like 1848. That answers all my questions. It opened and admitted five people.

What? There wasn't a lot of insane people just yet. Really? No, I'm sure there were. There's only five were admitted. Yeah, my ancestors were around 1848 they should have probably been admitted we were related to someone back then i'm probably admitted to someone admitted what the fuck is wrong with me i don't know i'm probably turn this light on i think i'm actually going blind but in the brain oh. Slowly, just different parts of my brain

are just shutting off. They're like, we don't need this. Turn the lights off. And I'm short-circuiting. We're wasting energy. So in 1848, five people were admitted. There was two different categories among these five people, by the way. Two categories? Mentally handicapped.

By the way, that is the notes. is not me before anyone says i'm not pc i'm reading off of notes that i actually got this is terry's story don't blame us thanks terry thanks a lot i mean a fucking sticky situation typical terry typical terry um the mentally handicapped who are also known as simple. Oh, my God. I did not write this. I just read it. Was one category.

The second was the criminally insane. Oh, my. So, my ancestors. The hospital at this point was considered, it was just one building. So, even though it was a hospital, it was just like one small little building at this point. And it sat on over 100 acres of land. fact whoa wait oh wow so there were five people admitted in 100 it's like living in a mansion and you have servants but the servants are nurses and the mansion is a hospital and you're criminally insane it's like it's like just the other way of looking at things it's just like if you look at the glass half full you know one of the five probably did i mean they must have 20 chance there's a nurse

bringing you like anti-psychotics every day oh you need a water here on a silver platter well i mean in 1848 i bet the water wasn't that great probably not um they didn't have like Evian back then. So what kind of mansion is this? Jeez. So in 1926, the hospital was renamed the Central State Hospital because M could not say Indiana. Fab. Fab. And in 1848, between 1848 and 1948, there were a lot more buildings built up instead of just the one on that land. There were a lot more buildings built up instead of just the one on that land. And they were constructed basically for the keep up because instead of five patients, by 1926, the hospital was housing over 3,000.

What? Yeah, they improved. They went from five to 3,000? Everyone wanted to be in the mansion. This is no longer a mansion. I'm saying. This is like a fucking disaster also i really didn't need to use the flashlight because i'm a fucking blind person can i just turn the lane on i just want to be stubborn yeah you can okay i just feel like it's going to be easier for you okay but can you pretend it's dark and spooky in here i will

i will be so committed to the dark and spookiness get committed get it it'll be so admitted to the criminally insane hospital don't look into the light bulb i don't know what matter with you you're like staring into the light with me you lit a candle made of broken glass someone gave us that tell tell people i'm wrong i'm not i'm pouring glass wine keep talking one of our listeners sent us a candle made from a recycled wine bottle so adorable valley it's so cool it's amazing and it's shiraz scented however the wine bottle candle may or may not have broken and shattered into several pieces so there's a bunch of jagged glass holding this fucking wax together and christine chose to still light it on fire and she's like it's fine

i mean it is is it not for now when the wax melts all over this jagged god damn it christine okay well thank you mary katrina for sending us this i still want to utilize it even though it's jagged shards of glass. There was a point where Gio had a piece of glass in his mouth and we fixed that situation. Oh, good. PETA, are you listening? No. They're going to take him away.

No, don't say that. Don't you say the things you're saying. I rescued him. People should have not put microphones in our faces. And by people, I mean our own selves. People who went on the Internet and purchased microphones while drinking wine. Oh, wait, that's that's me okay moving on let's talk about the criminally insane because i'm because clearly we're not a part of

that category we are our own category in 1848 that was a nice transition thank you um in 1848 until 1948 so in that span of 100 years, there were several other buildings constructed to keep up with the patient load since there were now over 3,000 patients. That is bananas. Quite a turnout. That's crazy. A turnout like it's a music festival. What a turnout. You know what?

It's a mansion. Might as well have a festival. Is it a mansion? It does not seem like a mansion. Well, not anymore. Now 3,000 people live does not seem like a mansion well not anymore now 3 000 people live there seems like a disaster so back then treatment of mental illness was new oh god i don't okay yep all right keep going so they heavily relied on the use of restraints sure um For patients who are prone to violence. And they were they put a lot of the, quote, worst inmates into something called retraining programs. Oh, no. So the by worst inmates, they meant the people who screamed incessantly, who were hostile and could not control their behavior. were hostile um and could not control their behavior oh my so they were put into basements or dungeons which they were literally called back then oh and um they were just hung there

they weren't hanged they were literally just hanging there hanging by their ankles and wrists they had basically okay so in the 1950s um workers were renovating a bunch of tunnels because there was underground tunnels that stretched five miles wide to connect all of the buildings from the cellar and in the 1950s they were renovating and they more or less found a bunch of dark rooms off of these tunnels that still had chains and manacles on the walls oh my god that used to hang people from their wrists and ankles that's day in day out fucked up to retrain them well okay that was the retraining program that makes so much sense um actually in 1817 there was a superintendent there who wrote a letter to the governor of indiana and this was his letter not his whole letter but this is a an excerpt from it the

basement dungeons are dark humid and foul unfit for life of any kind filled with maniacs who raved and howled like tortured beasts for want of light and air and food and ordinary human associations even the normal wards were without adequate provision for light heat and ventilation patients are forced to sleep on straw mattresses amid buildings with rotting floors and leaking roofs wait so who wrote this letter a superintendent from 1870 who was like working there yeah so he was like this is fucked up yeah working there? Yeah. So he was like, this is fucked up. Yeah. Oh, okay.

So he saw this. He was, like, writing about, like, the conditions. It's amazing. Like, nowadays that would be a tweet. Like. I know. Like, WTF. I just found this.

Hashtag help. Yep, that's the one. Hashtag leaking roof. So in 1872, two years later, after he sent that letter to the governor and nothing happened he was pissed and so he in protest resigned but also at the time it's like for one person to quit it's like i mean at any time i feel like yeah all right sadly i mean it's sad because like he clearly seemed to be the only one who cared oh yeah, yeah. He had it. So eventually, a committee was created to investigate the conditions. Okay.

So they heard him eventually. Great. And they reported that basically their reports were the same as his. And it resulted in this sweeping of like treatment methods and how the facility was ran and by 1890 um there was also a lot of public awareness about abuse in hospitals and so they were like really on fire um under fire they were on fire they were actually on fire the conditions were that bad they were like you know what this is unfit for there wasn't a lot of ventilation and they were on straw mats so i mean it could have might have you know could have should have would have happened oh except not i mean could

have might have could have not should have wouldn't anyway um conditions began to improve including scientific methods of actually researching the causes of mental illness which they weren't doing before they were just right oh you have hysteria they just had retraining programs that they created they just actually would just tie you up to a woxodon like you yeah yeah you were too loud so these reforms were finalized by 1894 um which was like by this point they were actually um creating care that involved treating patients instead of warehousing them. Okay. So the restraints, like the use of restraints was taken away.

And there was actual rehabilitation and social activities that were planned. And there was an effort to actually create like a pleasant environment to live in. That's good. And two Victorian-like castle buildings were built for the patients and several buildings were also created with gardens fountains and landscaping i bet you they had evian this is the mansion we've all been waiting for finally it also included a pathological department oh which sounds a lot cooler than i'm sure it is uh probably um which is also actually still standing in his now museum um they also had a sick hospital where they treated

the actual physical ailments of people with mental illness um they had a farming colony which sounds real cool that's cool so like occupational therapy that's really cool they had a chapel a rec room a fire station and a cannery where patients worked a cannery like c-a-n-n-e-r-y yeah i thought you meant like a canary well i tried actively to not say the word canary because people would be like there's one bird and that got mentioned canary they had a canary that all 3 000 people shared he was their emotion i can barely share 50 of geo can you imagine sharing a three thousandth of a bird an emotional support canary oh oh my god that's funny to me uh cannery i bet you that's where they can things probably i mean it's where they worked and then everyone's gonna email me and be like you're wrong guys can you not we're just gonna

google it and that'll solve all the problems we always find out minutes after we do this and then and then for months we have because then there's some of you who will hear this episode like a year from now and we're gonna get an email in 2019 about what a cannery is and we're gonna be like when the fuck did we talk about cannery we're gonna be like why are you telling us about canaries also you we're still getting disembodied feet remember oh i know, I know. People still are sending me that Canadian link. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We love you, but we're aware. We're not complaining.

To the people who listen to things in reverse, you're about to hear a lot about disembodied feet. They're like, what is happening here? Also, I'm never emailing them because they're really rude about it. We probably sound really rude. I'm sorry. Me too. I didn't mean it.

I love you. Come back. Wait, come back. Don't turn it off don't okay we finally ruined it we did it well now we finally have some time on our hands now you and i can just talk to each other oh and that's how we can start another podcast oh my god let's do it right catch you there okay go so in the path uh pathological department they had a pathology lab where they would do a bunch of autopsies um and then they would share those results in lectures to medical students who regularly met there the people who lived there though called this room the dead house oh and it was attached to a building that stored the bodies still awaiting autopsy so there was just a lot of dead bodies hanging out before they even got their shot good um there was also still a lot of allegations on neglect and abuse um not to say that that was real or maybe it was i'm not like saying it's

not valid but um that was still like an underlying theme even though they tried to like do all these great things they said the nurses like still weren't like the best right i mean i feel like that even the i'm sure the laws and rules regulations weren't still not up to par right and i mean even today there's still like right horrible horrible treatment of a lot of elderly people elderly abuse and like mental illness yeah also in the basement of the pathology lab is where a lot of the worst inmates were also kept. So there was the dungeons and then this was also another cellar that supposedly housed a lot of the people who were shackled.

Like it just happens to be like one of the places that sits on top of the tunnels where all the stuff was found. Right. the places that sits on top of the tunnels where all the stuff was found right um so in the 1970s these victorian buildings were declared structurally unsafe and were torn down and in another location um there was actually brick dorms built to house the patients instead oh okay um so what's worse than living in a fucking hospital oh yeah now having to live in a dorm in a hospital a 1970s style brick dorm yeah where you have to share a landline with your whole floor a spongebob 2002 landline what could be better than that thank you very much well honestly that

would be the treat of the era if it's the 1970s and a phone from 2002 showed up showed up i mean m i have it i would be pissed in the 70s if I got to 2002, if I time traveled and was like, we still have fucking landlines. That's fair. Why did it take that long? We had some Motorola. You could play Snake.

Well, yeah, we could play Snake. I mean, that's a pretty big plus in my opinion. It was when I was 10. Yeah. Snake was where it was at that was all you could do snake and neopets on on the internet don't you do that to just me okay no oh no we're there i just steer with me me and that tangent we could go far phew okay i thought maybe for a minute i jumped too far no no okay you're at the right place at the wrong time glad we're both here

so um the expense of running a large hospital combined with the claims of abuse just took it entirely down by 1994 the hospital was closed and uh also indiana took over the property so they restored a lot of the buildings and opened up the medical history museum which is now which is what the pathology lab was so that still stands the medical history museum that's really that is something we pathology lab was so that still stands the medical history museum that's really that is something we should go to yes if we ever do a show okay okay i thought we were gonna keep going with it oh in indiana we'll have we'll have to go we're never gonna end up there we can't even say a sentence. Because nobody's going to buy a ticket because we sound like idiots all the time.

I mean, speak for yourself. Patients who died on this property were buried in unmarked graves around 100 years ago. No big deal. So they were recently discovered. Fun fact. Not very fun for them, I guess. And a significance cemetery. A significance other? I other i don't what the

hell are you i'm having a stroke i'm telling you a significant you want me to call blaze no you pilots for a moment there was a hesitation i almost grabbed my phone a significant cemetery site was found in the corner of the hospital's property like and by significant it means like a lot of fucking dead bodies and there were 3 000 people there at one point yeah and a lot of unmarked graves oh so they literally just found a bunch of dead bodies no yeah like a man-made cemetery with no markings no mark oh my god okay no so patients um a lot of their remains are also still buried along the pathology building which is the medical history museum wild so if we were to go to that museum we would also be like standing on their fucking

remains and that's horrible in 2003 indianapolis bought the all of the property um and they now have plans for probably since i was 15 years ago um probably have uh already created there was a recession that you never know probably created a cultural center a park and have developed a lot of the land so that's the history wow all i have left for you are quotes quotes of experiences oh yeah the first one i have is from a an employee there named lew Lewis who has worked there for over 22 years Lewis what a gem Lewis says and all these are long guys so I'm gonna just I'm just telling you now if you don't like hearing me read passages in voices oh no in accents oh no oh okay in song no in limerick actually that's what I was going to say.

This is horrifying. We're the same person. I like how we couldn't get a basic sentence that was expected of us out, but we both knew limerick was coming out at the same time. We couldn't say Indiana at the same time, but we can say it. Oh, I can't say Indiana on my own. Oh, you can't. Did you hear me earlier?

Indiananana. Indiana banana. Indiana banana. So, Lewis says This long ass passage And I'm sorry Don't Just Here we go

We support you Maybe put in some nice music here Some eerie shit Alright let's put some like Gloomy eerie Cemetery music Maybe a wailing moan In the back

I thought you meant like whale Sounds Oh Oh What if I just Write it all in whale Okay My stepdad has a CDd that i found in his car called like whale songs to listen to and everyone has that i still have it i maybe i'll put that

underneath here oh good okay lewis says i hear them all the time anybody could you have to be perceptive but you can definitely hear them. You hear them on the grounds. There's crying, sometimes screaming, like you used to hear when the patients were still here. While I worked here, we had patients who would scream constantly who suffered. We even had one patient who hung himself. Sometimes at night, you can still hear him scream and moan. Sometimes you can still hear the wood creak that he

hung the noose around. What the fuck? At one time, a patient was literally stoned to death by another patient in a grove of trees that shade one side of the grounds. I remember that the patient who did it was immediately

shipped to a hospital afterwards. By the way, you're out of fucking hospital. Wait, what do you mean shipped to a hospital afterwards by the way you're out of fucking hospital wait what do you mean shipped to a hospital like another one but when you walk by that grove of trees at night you can still hear him screaming and moaning coming right out of the trees that just gave me chills at night when i have been working the guard shack i have seen what looks like patients run by and into the street. They just look like blurs. And then he pointed to a couple of gates and said, These gates used to be there to help keep some of the patients in the hospital, and every so often, one of them would try to get out by running past the gates.

We guards would have to go after them. Several times since the patients have moved out, I still have to run after them. What the fuck, Louis? so there's lewis lewis how do we feel oh creeped out get creeped out again because here's mr gray mr gray oh no not that mr gray he's got some what he's got 50 shades to talk about oh my god you're absurd. I'm not even going to comment on that. Can you imagine a haunted Fifty Shades?

That would be interesting. Wait, trademark. Right. You have to copyright it. Okay. Trademark. Call the lawyer. Copyright.

Okay. Yeah. Let's call the lawyer. The lawyer. Get me the lawyer. I never understood that. Why? Like in movies, they'd be like, get me Boston. Get me New York on the lawyer. I never understood that. Why? Like in movies, they'd be like, get me Boston.

Get me New York on the phone. It's like, who the fuck of all the people in New York? Who am I supposed to get? Get lawyer on the phone. Get the lawyer on the phone. Trademark. So here's Mr. Gray. Another passage of the same length.

Mr. Gray says. Another passage of the same length. Mr. Gray says, I swear we used to hear what sounded like a woman screaming and moaning in the corner. We would look around and see the place, but there wasn't anyone down there but us. I used to sit there while we took a break from shoveling the ashes, and I would swear that I could see the shadows or people moving from column to column. There were several big columns in the room, and I would catch their movements between them. It got me so scared that I looked all over the place and would find nothing. I absolutely knew that I saw something down there out of the corner of my eye.

I had a co-worker, Ron, who got really spooked one time when he was down there taking a nap late one night. I was taking a break upstairs when he came up and said that he had been awakened from his sleep with the strong sensation of being strangled. He said someone was choking me down there. strangled he said someone was choking me down there he then went on to say i could feel their hands around my neck but when i broke loose and went and turned on the light there was nobody there oh god when i told him he was probably just nuts he had oh you i thought you were gonna say you were probably just dreaming you're probably just nuts well he said i told him he was nuts that he was probably just having a bad dream okay but he looked me square in the eye and said then what about this pulled down the neck of his shirt, and sure enough, there were deep, dark red marks

on his throat of fingerprints, like somebody had just pressed there. What the fuck? Fifty Shades of Grey indeed, man. Fifty Shades of Grey has another passage he would like to say. I'm ready. Mr. Grey continues. In the basement of the old powerhouse we had a conveyor belt that used to be used to carry coal to the boiler there was a

switch on it from the far wall and i i remember you had to press it hard to turn it on well one night i was in that room with the boiler operator and we were the only ones in the building we were sitting at a table just talking when suddenly we heard the click of the switch on the far side of the room and the belt turned on we were shocked but we went over and turned it off and then we searched the entire area but we were the only ones there later we were walking out of the building and as we walked to the door we heard a hum coming from the basement we had just come from we listened for a minute and realized it was definitely the conveyor belt that had turned itself back on oh my god i asked the other man with me if he wanted to go down and see what was going on and he said there is no way in hell i'm going back down there so we locked up the building

and left with the conveyor belt still going oh my god they just left it the fuck that jesus he continues a lot of times i'm in the administration building at night all by myself Oh my god. They just left it. Fuck that. Jesus. He continues. A lot of times I'm in the administration building at night all by myself. Many times I have heard what sounds like footsteps going up and down the halls. At first I thought there were just sounds of animals and then I realized that these animals were wearing high heels. Which I know Gio loves a good high heel but. This is a weird Fifty Shades of Grey sequel. This is a Fifty Shades of animal, high heel animal.

I don't know. Yep, that's the one. I don't know. I was trying to get crafty with it. I'm too, I'm not on today, clearly. When you come to a pitch meeting, you've got to be prepared. Apparently. He says, so I got up and went to the window, but there was no one there. However, as I stood there, looking into the empty lobby,

I could hear the footsteps walking away from the building in the window. I could trace where the person should have been from the sound of the steps, but I was the only person in the entire building. Honestly, that whole time I was just picturing Gio in high heels, because you really put that in my brain. I hope every... Guys, listeners, artsy listeners, if I don't get

some sort of art of Gio cross-dressing... Oh, okay. I thought you were gonna say you're gonna get shoes for high heels. I don't want high... Oh, but if you guys can find doggy high heels... I don't have the money for those vet bills. I can hardly... I don't have the money... You're right. Poor Gio would break

all of his feet. I mean, knowing me, how I injure myself in high heels, Gio would not fare much better, to be honest. Okay. I just want art of Gio in high heels. Depictions are fine. Gio in drag. Sure.

Oh, I can't wait. Okay. Moving on. He does love a good sequined bandana. Okay. But so do I. I'm saying. Twinning. So, okay. So so the next one i'm ready um if you haven't

caught on the rest of i have said all these are quotes right um you did tell me this okay yes i have a couple left for you so this woman sandra a sandra. I'm glad we're moving on from Mr. Gray. Like, I feel like he was a little bit. I was over it from the beginning. He was like, just like talking a little much. He does. He's a little mouthy. A little mouthy.

Sandra is a nurse. And she worked at the hospital for six years. Wow. During the 80s and 90s. Wow, wow, wow. She says that she, when she was new, she started talking to a bunch of nurses and went out to lunch with them. And over coffee, quote, the nurses began to talk and once say that she refused to enter the, quote, catacombs after dark. Especially since, quote, Agnes, which that's how we know how old the story is.

agnes which that's how we know how old the story is ag i've okay especially since agnes told me about walking and talking to her friend down there yeah p.s my aunt's named agnes but it's my favorite murder made fun of that name recently and it's like there's not a person named agnes or barbara and i'm like my aunt's names are agnes and barbara shut the fuck up but they're i've met barbara's before but i truly have not met an agnes that's not at least 70 years old come to my wedding well i intend to i have to marry you right you have you should probably be there i do love the people that listen in reverse because they think we're getting married oh don't ruin it for them. Oh, but I mean, they think the truth.

So Sandra says, especially since Agnes told me about talking to her friend down there. Right, right, sure. Her friend Barbara. Her, yep. Can you imagine if that was right? That would creep me the fuck out. Several years before, apparently in this hospital, a male patient named Alvin, not Barbara, was

suddenly found to be missing from the institution. Oh. Alvin was in a non-secure ward and was not considered dangerous so when they couldn't find him, they just assumed he had a successful escape. They were just like, great, Alvin. They're like, whatever, someone had to

do it. Alvin and his chipmunks just broke free. Aw. Sounds like a movie. Can you imagine if the chipmunks had a pet canary? I'm imagining it. Who would be bigger? Really supporting it. Imagine having a pet that's actually the size of you.

So, anyway. Alvin went missing. They all applauded. They applauded applauded well they didn't stop him it's like when i eat another donut i'm like i should need another donut from the break room and then i do and no one stops me and then like a round of applause they just start applauding and then nickelodeon cheers for you and make a show about you i mean that's pretty much how i'm gonna think of it from now on so anyway alvin left got it the whole hospital was searched they could not find him it was assumed that he somehow just wandered off um it was apparently a very popular opinion and then this nurse that sand Sandra's hanging out with said, my friend told me that one of the women on her ward, a lady named Agnes.

Apparently, Agnes suddenly began wandering off on her own after Alvin disappeared. She would just disappear from the ward and they would have to search for her. Inevitably, she would be found on the steps that led down to the catacombs just sitting by herself wait wait so is she a nurse too yeah oh so just basically like she would just like be on her shift and like nobody could find her she would just go missing on her shift i don't like and then they would find her sitting in the catacombs on the stairs by herself i don't appreciate this one bit what are you looking at your brother don't look over your shoulder while you're telling me about agnes hi alexander in the catacombs i don't like it he's waving so happy get out of here um god that scared you like do this thing where you're like talking about agnes and the catacombs

and then your gaze like shifts over my shoulder and you just stare blankly and i'm pretty sure i'm about to get murdered okay um okay so she just hangs out in the catacombs just sitting by herself sure sure it got to be so regular apparently that when she would disappear instead of calling security to search for her they would just send one of the nurses down to the catacombs and tell her to come back upstairs that's so sad so one night agnes as she does disappeared from the ward and she was found just sitting there and the nurse that pulled the short straw apparently went down to the catacombs to go find her um sitting on the stairs down leading towards the tunnels and out of curiosity she asked agnes why she actually goes down there um by herself and agnes said i go down there to talk with my friend oh no agnes she said basically i guess the nurse that

found her was going to disregard whatever she said was just trying to make small talk but then she said um her friend which creepy and she was like okay what's your friend's name you're always here alone right and she was like oh his name is alvin no thank you and he lives in the tunnels okay i'm sorry agnes get it together so basically alvin goes missing nobody gives a shit and then agnes starts regularly going down into tunnels by herself on her shift to hang out with apparently a guy named alvin who's living in the tunnels don't make friends with someone who lives in the tunnels named alvin so this nurse is very freaked out and so she calls security and she asks if the missing patient alvin

was ever found and they said no and she said well have you checked the tunnels so... I have a hunch. And so security went down there to look for him. And they found a grate leading to a small crawl space. What? And they found Alvin living in the tunnels. But by living, I mean he was living there. And according to the remains of his dead body what he had passed several months ago he apparently got lost in the tunnels and couldn't find his way out and was living in the tunnels until he died wait so agnes was hanging out with her friend or like he was so agnes was hanging out

with someone named alvin who was living in the tunnels who died several months ago. Oh, so he was already dead when she was going out there. So she was hanging out with him. She was compelled to keep going down to the tunnels and talk to this person who's not alive. That's really fucked up, dude. And so another nurse in this conversation, like, because this nurse went upstairs and was like, bitch, do you know what i just fucking experienced so she's oh my god so she was talking about agnes with the rest of her nurses can you imagine that break room conversation can you imagine no one believing you that would suck i don't know i feel

like um do we know her name this nurse no i feel like she was probably just like listen up and everyone was like we need to know what you know. So another nurse during this conversation claimed that while looking through the tunnels on her own many years before, she found an adjacent room with a dirt floor and chains attached to the walls. So this was the beginning of people discovering the... She just like casually stumbled upon the shit. She was like, oh, there it is. And when she walked past that particular room, she said she felt like total dread and a gut feeling to just leave as soon as she could. She could hear the sounds of moaning coming from in there.

And when she finally talked about it with her supervisor, the supervisor said, oh, never mind that. We all know about that room and we all stay away from it. A lot of us have heard those things. Never mind that. Never mind that. Pay no mind. The nurse also said, I was working the late shift and I spent most of my time trying to get the patients to calm down and go to sleep. And finally, about 3 a.m. on the week where we were transferring patients to another hospital, I finally got things quiet and sat down for a minute to catch my breath.

and sat down for a minute to catch my breath. That's when I heard a woman sob and the sob started floating towards my ear from the direction of a dark hallway. I quickly realized that they were coming from a patient's room that was supposed to be empty. At the door, I paused for a moment after finally finding where the sobs were coming from and I listened to the sobbing coming from inside.

There was something about it that made all the hair on my arms stand up. It was a heartbreaking cry like someone inside was in incredible pain or distress. When I opened the door, the crying suddenly stopped and no one was in there. The room was empty, even the beds were gone. I went back to my desk and while

I was thinking about it all, I subconsciously looked down to the end of the hall where the room was and I saw this hazy shadow floating in front of the room. I turned my head and stared in that direction and at that moment it zipped down the hall and disappeared into the wall at the end of the hallway uh it took a moment for it to go entirely be gone but i know i saw something oh what the fuck the last thing i will say is that in 1997 there were also several uh dispatches dispatches to the police from this hospital after it had been closed for several years. In what decade?

The 90s. So in 1997, the police were called at one time because a workman was seen moving in an upstairs window, even though there should be no workman because it's abandoned. A workman? Like a construction person? Like it looked like someone was wandering around trying to fix things oh geez okay so the cops went into the building his flashlight was the only thing on because there's no electricity in this building anymore he started searching rooms and he says i was almost to the end of the hallway when exiting a room and i suddenly was startled by a by the sound of a woman's high-pitched scream i spun around and saw a woman in a robe run past me down the hallway oh my god how terrifying she was kind

of hazy but i could see her in the flashlight beam because i couldn't before i could draw my gun or even call for her to stop she ran right into a wall at the end of the hallway and disappeared through it is a police officer talking as a's a police officer. Oh, fuck, dude. Another time that the police were dispatched to the same hospital was on another late night call because there was movement seen in one of the buildings. They walked through the hallways with their flashlights in hand. Suddenly, both the lights extinguished themselves simultaneously. The cop was reported later saying,

Those flashlights are over $100 cop flashlights for each of us. And they are built so that you can immerse them in water run them over with a truck and drop them over a cliff and they'll still work those things are no joke yeah and he said the fact that one would go out is strange but when both go out the exact same time with so far brand new batteries and it's not like they're uh yeah like digital like they're just battery like they're just battery operated so um holy shit in 2006 there was a woman named maggie who founded a group called the indiana paranormal investigator uh investigators who founded a group called indiana paranormal investigations um so her and her husband were on a tour and not in a on a tour they're like on their own

investigation in this hospital. And she said, we began our investigation in the administration building and we set up a base camp there in one of the rooms on the second floor. It was hot. It was the summertime and we were trying to figure out how to open up the window. Um, one of our first experiences there was trying to get these windows to open. And all of a sudden, all three of us in the room heard a voice say, pull down from the top.

What? It came from. Wait, they all heard that. That's so fucking creepy. It came from none of us and nobody knew how to work this window. So how would we have been able to know? It's not like. I asked everyone in the room who knew how to get the windows open.

Everyone said they didn't know how to open the window and they hadn't said anything, but they had all heard it. Shit. Maggie also asked the spirits to say hi to someone in the room great um using uh and they were like trying to find evps they just wanted to hear some voice on a recording right so can you say hi to someone in the room and they got an evp of both a child and an older man saying hi adam but nobody named adam was in the room the next week maggie found out that she was pregnant and they named their son adam no so they were already

saying hi to someone that didn't exist yet that just gave me so they were like who's adam and then she found out she was pregnant and then later on named her son adam and then remembered that so it occurred to her after. It's not like, oh, that ghost told me my son's name. It was like, fuck, dude. Can you imagine that moment when she realizes, wait a second, like... Oh, yeah. I would feel like they were attached to me for the rest of my life

if they were already knowing shit about me that I didn't know. Okay, so there's that. That's that on that. that on that that's that jesus it the ones with the hit the ones with like the really intense histories get to me like well i try i try my best but it's hard to find buildings that have 50 great history and 50 great current stories i mean it makes sense they're tough to come by but i mean even just hearing the history of some of these places i think is so interesting even if it's it's a wild ride it's like interesting on its own even without the ghost stuff but then that makes it way better well that's why we're here obviously did you come

with a story oh no was i. Was I supposed to? No. I just wanted to hear you kind of just slur things after drinking a lot of wine. I think I might ad-lib one, though. Could you? Sure. Here we go. Oh, no. Not now.

Like, later. Oh, no. I'm not ready for that mentally. We need to hold off. I need to take a break before that happens. What if we started an ATWWDwd improv troupe i would shit myself m's about to fucking there's nothing i hate more than improv i'm about to take this jagged glass from this candle and just stab me in the heart it'd be funny if we just got on a stage and didn't

have anything prepared i mean what do you think i have anxiety about every day of my life why do i do this to myself okay let's change the subject oh my god i can't breathe so okay breathe okay this topic interestingly enough was suggested to me by my co-worker claire hi claire slash my co-workers always make fun of me when i call them co-workers because there's just four of us in this program so they're really just like my good friends your buddy but i like to be like my co-worker where's claire from uh she's from ireland there it is but she lives in london i know it's fine i have some fancy friends uh okay okay uh she's probably gonna fucking kill me she's gonna come over here and take a piece of this glass and also stab me oh um okay so my friend claire who is from ireland and lives in london she's in the

nickelodeon program with me but she's a crime novelist okay well that's valid and legitimate hello she's published nine novels fresh perfect so this is claire who you're talking who you're talking about yes on this okay well claire's better than both of us isn't she she suggests i mean not that i ever had a question but yes uh she has like every time we do our intros for people when we like do meet and greets quote unquote uh she's always like yes i've published nine novels and the person's always like i'm sorry what can you repeat that and one time i'm such an ass. One time she said like, yeah, publish novels. And then I was like, Claire's actually published nine novels. And she didn't say the number, but I need you to know.

And they were like, okay. Anyway, point being, she's a fiction. She's a novelist. And she's written nine. She's published nine novels. Some of them were auctioned by the BBC. Oh, so real novels. She's legit.

And her author name is ava woods eva ava woods so if anyone wants to go check out her books i uh i'm about to download some on my kindle so i'm really excited quick update guys i wanted to add that claire's crime novels can actually be found under her name claire mcgowan m-c-g-o-w-a-n and her other novels can be found under the name ava woods e-v-a oh and sorry guys i meant to say optioned by the bbc not auctioned whoops and she listens i waited because i was like i don't want to be that huge creep who just like starts reading right right stuff but she was listening to the podcast recently and i was like oh okay so i'm gonna so if you listen to my tiny little podcast i can go read all nine of your novels and feel even your bbc

auction novel yeah option novel so i'm sorry to tell you this but i wrote my nose today um you broke your nose today no what i wrote my notes oh okay the rain in spain the the main yep whatever the main oh just the main just the main i really thought for a second you said you broke your nose and i was like and that's not why you fucking drink you almost flipped the table you got really alert for a second i got my eyes dilated no uh i wrote my notes today um and i was like i don't i was doing a story and i was like yeah i think i'm working on this story and claire was like oh have you heard of the yorkshire ripper and i was like no and then of course my friend joanna who's also from london because the brits are apparently taking over oh and they all know each other too

just are all there all the time uh and she comes out and she's like what are you talking about and she's like the yorkshire ripper and i was like tell me everything and this is where this begins and is this one of the nine bbc optioned true crime novels that your friend knows she's a fiction writer so she writes like crime novels that aren't that don't even exist yet right like she creates kind of crazy because like she has to think like a killer that doesn't even exist i mean yeah i'm into it it's great i mean she's probably crazy but i'm i mean we're clearly crazy yeah it's not a question i mean we happily talk about this every week non-stop we don't even make up our own stories we just take everybody else's and we're like whoa yeah yeah yes but she's creative enough to come up with her own good for her okay okay yorkshire let's get on with it the yorkshire ripper aka peter suck cliff aka peter coonan peter peter pan

pan peter frying pan okay i'm sorry uh so peter sutcliffe was born to a catholic working class family thanks priest thanks hashtag thanks priests in yorkshire on june 2nd 1946 close he is a gemini two three four that's our birthdays we're triplets with him oh shit sorry but he was born in 46 so he's old okay uh he was a so peter suckliff he was a loner growing up and um he left school at the age of 15 taking on a series of menial jobs he didn't show much promise in any of them until he finally found his passion in the career of grave digging. You know, that career. You know, I did always want to be a grave digger. I always thought it would be kind of fun because, I mean, it's not like you're touching dead bodies.

You're just digging the thing that the body will be in. Like, you don't have to really be near them. But you're always in a cemetery of dead bodies. You know why they call it the graveyard shift because it's at night i don't know why no people did graves in the day too it was a there was a graveyard shift originally like it was called like the graveyard shift because um i forget the disease i'm not gonna just pick one because that's plague. What do we want it? I wanted to say the plague, but I don't think we like consumption because you thought it

meant eating a lot of cake. Yeah. Cause I was like, that's how I'll die. Diphtheria. Um, I don't remember what it was, but there was a time where a lot of people were going through this disease where it looked like you died, but you didn't actually die. Oh yeah. And then they would ring the bell and yeah and so they would grave diggers were burying people with a string fucked up and the string was attached to a bell above ground and so in case

they woke up they could pull on the string and people above brown above ground would hear the bell so the whole point of graveyard shift was to stay at night and listen for a bell in case supervise the great how to like dig them out of the ground up is that i would be really stressed if i heard the bell and i'd be like oh fuck like i have about an hour to get this guy out of the ground seriously also imagine while you're digging to get him out like you can't actually hear someone up there right away like you are freaking out that maybe no one can hear you you don't know that they're trying to take you out oh my god stop this is i've been taking

these antibiotics i was gonna say this is why i drink until like my iphone was fucking stolen but i have been taking these antibiotics for five days and when i started them blaze because i have this weird thing on my ear and blaze was like these are the ones that they gave you at the hospital that give you weird dreams and i was like what are you talking about and i was like i don't remember this and my friend renee was like oh fuck i remember those texts and i was like you guys are nuts like i don't remember this at all i have been having the most fucking gory violent vicious dreams like i had a dream where blaze kept stabbing me in the throat and my organs were coming out of my neck like what the fuck so messed up you should tell it to your true crime buddy. Maybe you can get an option

BBC book out of it. Yeah. So then my fiance stabbed me in the throat with a broken bottle. My organs actually just all piled right out. It's crazy. My liver was suddenly in my throat. No. And then I had a dream last night that I not only was I pregnant, my friend was like, oh, that's normal people. And I'm like, no, no, no, no. It wasn't that was i pregnant my friend was like oh that's normal people and i'm like no no no it wasn't that i was pregnant it was that i was giving birth on the floor like to an actual baby like it was just like the most horrific nightmare anyway i don't know why i'm announcing this on the podcast the point is what what is the point i don't remember what we were talking about i like grave digging right okay yeah. Em likes to dig graves.

Okay. That being said, I'm trying to think of a good transition. Okay. So, he, like, did all these menial jobs as a teenager, and then grave digging was the only one where he was like, fuck yeah, I'm into this. Same. Sure. one where he was like fuck yeah i'm into this same uh sure uh he would volunteer for extra time at the mortuary so like he was working with dead bodies it wasn't like he was okay just digging graves like he was burying the dead bodies i understand yes that part i don't like oh okay

yes i think that's part of the part of the the interest for him yes uh he also would work for extra okay yeah you're definitely not gonna agree with this either he would work for extra money to wash down the bodies um he would even sometimes jump into a grave i don't know with the body yeah with the body do you imagine being dead and that's what fucking like imagine being a ghost and you're looking down on your body and that's the shit you see you're like i want my wife to come and give me flowers but then this fucking weirdo jumps in your grave yeah no gross gross so unlike many other murderers uh suck cliff did not show too many abnormalities during his childhood years um aside from being bullied for being too skinny i wish

jesus take the wheel what a tough life oh my and uh he worshipped his mother to the point that he thought she was basically infallible like she was his idol essentially like like she was um he like put her on untouchable yeah he like put her on a pedestal and was like she's like immortal exactly got it um and his dad was pretty like his dad was an alcoholic and like hit the kids sometimes and you know of course it was an abusive his dad was abusive and it was an unhealthy childhood but it wasn't anything like so extreme that you hear from some serial killers you know like he just things just went the wrong way for him but it didn't start off that extreme but then in 1970 um his father really fucked him up uh he his father knew his wife was

cheating on him so he posed as his wife's lover lured her to a hotel then took his son peter uh and two of his other siblings with him to the hotel where he had lured his wife so that they could witness her downfall okay so peter watched as his dad caught his mom and then pulled a negligee from her bag and exposed her as a cheater and basically shattered this like infallible image that he had of his mother so he you know it just like completely fucked with his head got it of because she like treated him like an angel like he was just and she was actually cheating or yeah she was okay she was with another man and the husband like conned her into revealing it basically but then took three of his kids with him got it got it got it um so by most accounts um peter suck cliff started hiring sex workers

at a young age in his teenage years um he developed this habit slash obsession with voyeurism and he'd spent a lot of time spying on sex workers and the men who elicited their services so he would just watch them and follow them around for fun um on february 14th of 1967 he met a woman named sonia surma and uh they got married seven years later but they were dating throughout that time period um and after several miscarriages sonia was informed that she would not be able to have children so she began taking courses to become a teacher because she wanted to like restart her career and during her courses uh she had an affair with an ice cream truck driver that's exactly what i plan on fucking doing allison oh my gosh she knows she knows to watch out she doesn't let me in your ice cream trucks

it's like a it's like a fucking thriller like an affair with the ice cream truck driver okay but i'm telling you in all honesty like gospel truth here my mother's dream as a child was to marry an ice cream man and if she could right now she still. And her and I have actually had very serious business talks about opening a diner together. I mean. We've actually like walked into diners and like looked at them and been like, but I would put this here and I like this here. And it'd be like an old fashioned ice cream parlor. Like not even really a diner, just like old school ice cream parlor.

I will GoFundMe the shit out of that. Like the, like the shiny red diner booth seats and all that fucking do it we're not kidding like like the like a ice cream like a bar with like the swivel seats and m i'm not we've it's i know you're not that's why i want to support this team milkshake this didn't just come out of nowhere my mother's been encouraging this since she was a child my mom one of her high school jobs was to work at an ice cream store. And then she gained like 11 pounds in like two weeks. And my grandpa was like, you have to quit here.

Oh, nice. This wasn't my choice. My mother has been making this happen since before my own birth. Like when she. In your genes. When she was pregnant with me, she fed me in the womb haagen-dazs every day for nine months so like what did you think was gonna happen well i mean this makes sense because my mom told me she didn't know she was pregnant until she was five months pregnant with me and she drank a lot a lot

of wine went through that fucking uh that that cord umbilical cord she's gonna kill me for saying that you just absorbed a lot of wine and utero and i thought it was hilarious and i'm like oh i think it's just my mom gave me um filet mignon and chocolate haagen-dazs every day for nine months and they're still my two favorite foods well my mother likes to say oh i didn't drink when i was pregnant with you and i was like one time you got drunk and admitted to me that five months into your pregnancy you were like why am why is my size negative 10 belt not fit anymore and why do i keep throwing up i guess i should keep drinking wine and then like okay but that's also a thought you have i know i know and so i was like renata you told me this and she's like i would never i had no idea and

i'm like yeah you were like 26 or 27 you didn't fucking know but so i'm like i mean i'm i'm like fine i have a fucking graduate degree i'm not you know impaired for life but she's really fucking horrified when i tell that story but i'm like you told me anyway i mean if if ice cream had alcohol in it my mom probably would have not stopped eating it i think there's a problem in my family i was always raised that like a like a pint like an ice cream pint or hotness pint is a serving size but i mean that's not that abnormal is it well it is when i'm a child and eat one like it's not even an issue and then i go to someone else's house for a sleepover and they're like why we're supposed to share this we bought one so we could share it tonight and i was like i'm never fucking sleeping here again fuck you i was like and then

they blamed it on me being an only child and not knowing how to share and i was like no i was just raised that this is a fucking serving i'm not gonna share a serving with you it's so interesting because i was raised to have very a very bad diet it's so funny because like i was raised to have like a very strict clean healthy diet like just all normal foods and then just like so much booze like it's just like all veggies all organic fresh meats and vegetables, like no junk, no processed food. And then it's like, but lots of wine. It's a very European thing. When I worked in the graphics department at the job I'm still at, one of the big things was we had to make fake ice cream labels for TV shows. But so they would, people would actually bring real ice cream.

Your Snapchats about this would kill me. This was back when I was like actively Snapchatting about ice cream a lot. And we weren't friends yet. So I like i want to kill myself one of my job literally i got paid to eat ice cream as much of it as i fucking could as fast as i could four gallons of ice cream better get started because we had to they i'm only explaining because i know we're gonna get a lot of like um we just skimmed right past this and didn't explain it. So I'm just explaining it real quick. Just go, go, go. But for shows where they have to eat ice cream and if you look and like if they don't have like a deal with like Breyers or Haagen-Dazs or something, they need a fake label because they don't legally have that brand cleared. So they have to get a fake label so they don't get in trouble. But so we're the people that make a fake label

for ice cream but we need to size the design right like we need to print it out make sure it's going to fit so they bring actual ice cream to work gallons of ice cream for us to put the label on so that way when they come to pick it up at the end of the day there's a perfectly accurate ice cream carton with a fake label on it but in that entire time the ice cream would melt by the time they picked it up brought it to set waited for that scene to shoot and then someone ate it and now it's just like liquid ice cream so we literally had to eat the product so that way we could label a fake carton so they could go ahead and buy more ice cream zoe de chanel could pretend to eat ice cream on no zoe would never eat i know that's why i said i have to carve carrots and make them like cheetos cheetos for her carrot cheetos if you ever see zoe de

chanel eating a cheeto it's a carrot it's a fucking carrot that i hand carved m taught me that and i tell people constantly i don't know if i'm allowed but i do it anyway it's do you know how long it takes to carve a fucking carrot into a cheeto and then do enough of them tell me because i think it's fucking amazing and then do enough of them because i think it's fucking amazing and then do enough of them so that they can do multiple takes of her eating them by the handful it takes a lot of fucking time i'm used to hand i mean i know we just said this four times but i'm used to hand carve baby carrots to look like cheetos like what the actual because everyone on that set is like super health conscious so like one person's dairy like

dairy free one's soy free one's vegan one's so we just had to have like just you gotta have carrot cheetos it's and i had to eat all the ice cream in the world so they could put a different product in there in case the person didn't actually eat ice cream but they needed to like the character eats real ice cream but they actually are like vegan in real life so i have to put vegan ice cream in a real ice cream that's so fucking annoying it's just golden to like picture envision you eating ice cream by the gallon just like gallons they would literally give me a ladle at work and say finish this by the end of the day you're ladling ice cream but then on the side you take a giant ladle bite and then you're carving a carrot into it into a precise i'm so health conscious

and crafty while also making the worst dietary decision such a yin and yang like balance if if zoe de chanel knew that she was eating carrots that i carved if she knew i was she knows if who does she think what does she think it was just like a zoe if zoe on new girl was eating carrots if she knew that the carrot she was eating were ones that I hand carved while eating a gallon of ice cream, she would be like, that's foul. Yeah, she would find that foul. We should move on. People are probably sick of me talking about my work. I mean, let's talk more about ice cream.

Where did we end off, by the way? Hell, if I know. What are we even talking about? This tangent is off by the way hell if i know what are we even talking about this tangent is an unbelievable trip i don't know what story i was telling oh right grave digging how does this keep happening what the fuck happened oh wow okay he jumped into a grave i think that's where we i don't know okay that's literally the last note i said so i don't know where i don't know how you'll you'll figure it out when you're editing this for four hours it's like one of those cosmopolitan magazine quizzes where like you're like you i love to text in emojis and then you

hit like yes sometimes whatever you fall like a giant ass like a tree yeah yeah yeah i feel like that's what's happening and we just went like fucking way off base future you is throwing your head into a wall right now future me is at a three-day seminar that's 12 hours a day and is probably like crying in her fucking seat at lax marriott okay here we go i have to get up at like 6 30 i want to die okay so he worked as a graveyard person and he loved to just get paid extra he would like take extra shifts to like clean the dead bodies and would like climb into the grave sometimes and shit like that um oh no there is something else that i said okay so he would talk obsessively to his friends about bodies in pubs. So he would like get super like to a point where his friends were like, I don't feel comfortable with this.

Like he just goes on and on about how great it is to work with dead bodies. I feel like if that were your job, I'd be like, tell me everything you possibly can. Yes, this is fair. I feel like if that were your job, though, I'd be like, tell me everything you possibly can. Yes, this is fair. But I feel like if it's a person who's being really creepy about it and, like, loves to touch dead bodies, it's, like, different. If you told me you jumped into a grave with one, I'd be like, okay, Christine, that's a little extra. Like, don't beg to clean the dead body.

Like, that's just a little much. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, exactly. So he had an obsession with voyeurism. He married Sonia. Oh, right. The ice cream van driver. Of course.

How could I forget? So there we are. There we are. Crack the code. Crack the secret code of this episode. So anyway, so she had an affair with this ice cream truck driver. And then in his like twisted mind, this just added to his distorted view of women. So he already had this, like, fucked up thing where he... And ice cream.

Distorted view of ice cream. There's no such thing as a distorted... I mean, there is if you don't really eat it. But otherwise, we support all views on ice cream. No, we don't. What? I'm just kidding. No, I'm saying unless you don't eat ice cream right

right then we don't support you i'm gonna stop talking okay uh so he had this distorted view of women because his dad like fucking brought him to the pulled out her negligee like just whatever fucked up it's also so intimate to like see your mom's negligee oh totally like it's not like just breaking a spell of like it's not like breaking an image it's like doing something really incredibly private and personal that you shouldn't have seen anyway it's like dragging you into something between your parents that's so personal and like sexual like it's just so inappropriate yes yeah so he already had this fucked up view on women then his wife cheated on him with an ice cream truck driver which like who wouldn't

what are you gonna do you can't win that argument right you're not gonna beat that guy couldn't if or gal i mean you know if you're sleeping with him you get free ice cream i mean that's they got those snoopy pops you can't win i forgot about those you can't win the the powerpuff girl popsicles with the gumball eyes those were good there's they had spongebob ones for a while they had teenage mutant ninja turtle ones too those were good those were actually good they got me going like the teenage mutant ninja turtles hashtag nickelodeon okay i wish they saw those at work anyway what blah blah blah blah blah so she they stayed together she completed her courses and became a teacher and then the two of them used her salary to buy a house in uh heaton bradford sure um and they moved there on September 26 of 1977. So they lived there for a long time. In 1969. So this is we're jumping back to. So that's kind of like their timeline. So they bought this house in 77. And from then on, they were and they had met in 1967. So this has been 10 years that they were together in 1969

so two years after they started dating but they weren't married yet um peter sutcliffe was tricked out of money by a sex worker that he had hired uh so he was still going strong with like hiring sex workers um he got out of his so this is what happened he got out of his friend's minivan when he saw her the woman who had taken his uh by the way it was um five pounds like of ice cream sorry i'm just in another place no friend five pounds of pounds of of currency oh see why would i think why would you expect me to think that way i don't know because what is five pounds equal that's probably like uh like eight bucks eight or nine bucks depending on the exchange rate sure when i went to england like many years ago it was pretty much double so like

you just had to double the price of everything gotcha to get dollars and everything was so fucking expensive but i think now it's it's better but anyway okay so she had basically sold like eight bucks from him okay i don't know what it was not a big fucking in the 70s right like not a huge deal maybe i don't know today, maybe it was like 50 bucks, 30 bucks. I don't know. I don't know. Not a huge amount, right? Like, not something to kill over.

Precisely. Precisely that. So, he was pissed. And he had his friend drive around in his minivan until he spotted her. minivan until he spotted her then he jumped out of the van followed her into a garage where he hit her in the head with a stone in a sock oh that'll hurt came up behind her and beat her in the head with a rock that was in a sock um and although she was badly injured she managed to catch his license plate number the the car that they had driven in so she was quick on her feet the police went to his house and told him he was very lucky because

the woman didn't want to press charges uh so he got off scott free for that and then a year into his marriage with sonia in 1975 he committed his second assault he attacked a woman named anna rogolsky who just happened to be walking down the street alone minding her own goddamn business he came up behind her knocked her unconscious with a ball-peen hammer and then slashed her in the stomach with a knife a neighbor heard the commotion and came outside so he fled and she survived but required extensive medical treatment and was obviously like scarred for the rest of her life right um the next month Sutcliffe attacked a woman named Olive Smelt by again hitting her from behind with a hammer and using a knife to slash her this time above

her buttocks and then he was interrupted during the attack and fled but left her badly injured then next pretty soon after that he attacked a 14 year old girl named tracy brown by coming up to her from behind hitting her head five times as she walked oh so like before she even went down he managed to hit her five times with a hammer um and she was just walking down a country road like he just came up behind her on a country road but he saw the lights of a passing car and fled leaving her there with severe injuries and she actually required brain surgery it was that bad of an injury oh my god so everyone so far to this point has survived but in october of 1975 he committed his first murder uh wilma mccann a mother of four was struck twice with a hammer and then stabbed 15 times in the neck

chest and abdomen oh shit yeah and so police got like super involved uh there was 150 police officers and 11 000 interviews were conducted but they failed to find the perpetrator um and one of her one of mccann's daughters actually died by suicide in december of 2007 after years of depression following her mother's murder because they were just never able they'd like not never able but like at the time they just weren't able to like pin down right who had who had done it done it um so obviously this hammer to the back of the head and then the which just like fucking awful and then the knife slashing became uh his mo his mo exactly uh he would also always leave the bottom half of his victims exposed

as a final insult to women so he would like attack them and then just like pull down their clothes and pull their shirts up and their bras up over their breasts especially sex workers this was like a habit of his so three months after his murder of mccann which was his first murder that's known at least um he murdered 42 year old sex worker emily jackson who had actually been in dire financial straits and was using the family van to exchange sexual favors for money to try to keep her family afloat um Sutcliffe hit her on the head with a hammer and then stabbed her 51 times holy fuck with a sharpened screwdriver I know I know oh no in the neck chest and abdomen oh no he stomped on her thigh so hard it left a deep imprint of his boot.

And she was killed. On May 9th, so a few months later, 20-year-old Marcella Claxton was walking home from a party when she accepted a ride from Sutcliffe. She got out of the car to go pee, and Sutcliffe followed her out of the car and hit her from behind with a hammer. and Sutcliffe followed her out of the car and hit her from behind with a hammer. She survived and actually ended up testifying against him at his trial. And although she survived, she had actually been four months pregnant at the time of the attack. Don't say it.

I know. And suffered a miscarriage because of it. So she was obviously traumatically affected as well. Only 20 years old. On February 5th suck cliff attacked another sex worker named irene richardson by bludgeoning her to death with a hammer and then after she had died he mutilated her body with a knife so he was just going like he just had no wow just like taking things just out of control. And then two months later, he killed a sex worker named...

I mean, this is literally, like, month after month. He's just fucking following random... And it's not even all sex workers. Like, some of them are teenagers. Why are girls still walking around late at night, then? Was there, like... Because we're in the city. Like, you can't...

You know, I mean... I guess so. People have to go to work. People have to go to school. He went to college campuses. walking around late at night then was there like because we're in the city like you can't you know i mean people have to go to work people have to go to school he went to college campuses like yeah and that was another big thing is like women started a movement later that was like women shouldn't have to like not walk on the street because right that's true is you know it's it's just awful but what are you gonna do if like your livelihood depends on getting to your job or whatever you know i know it's just it's awful it's awful it really does um so two months later he killed a sex worker named tina atkinson and a lot of these were sex workers so he would hire them only to kill them on the job.

Not all of them, which was an interesting MO. Like, he didn't just kill sex workers. Sometimes he would just randomly pick a girl or a woman, right, like off the street. I bet he thought something along the lines of, like, I mean, even if they, like, if there was just, like, an innocent random person, he would probably felt like I my mom, I thought she was innocent. Like maybe they have totally he must dark story that I think you're right. Like, I don't have to know what happened. I know they're probably got a dark past. Yeah, he clearly had like a very twisted view on women.

Yeah. Whether it was a sex worker or a 16 year old girl. Yeah. So who knows? girl yeah so who knows um so tina was killed in her apartment and then two months later he murdered a 16 year old girl named jane mcdonald um and she had not been a sex worker so now the entire female population in the area was like in full-on panic mode and women were like not leaving the house not going to work not going to school just in total disarray over it. Because clearly it wasn't just sex workers.

Like it was seemed to be just random. So that July. So people were freaking out. But like, you know, you can't stop everyone from leaving their house. So that July Sutcliffe assaulted another woman named maureen long and he was interrupted by a witness and fled leaving her for dead and the witness misidentified the make of the car so after 11 500 interviews and thousands of cars that had been checked they were not able to pinpoint the perpetrator because someone had gone misidentified the car have you ever watched

that show um brain no it's not brain games what's that show yeah i know you're talking about is it yeah my dad likes that show a lot is it the one where well there was maybe it is that one but it's the show where they kind of talk about like human patterns, like behavioral patterns and psychological patterns. And they did one about like witnesses to accidents and how like fucking wrong people are. Yeah. Like how they just don't remember colors or speeds or. And then they're so confident in it. So they think it's because your brain like literally creates a story, whether you.

Yeah. Cause you want an answer. Yeah. And you recreate a story in your head and they would it depends on how you ask the question so if you say like how fast was the car like careening toward the other car you're more likely to say 60 miles per hour than if you were to say how fast was the car driving toward the car it's just fascinating anyway so the witness was like totally wrong with the type of car and they just went completely off the path and weren't able to catch the perpetrator unfortunately because he was a lot about to do a lot more shit um so over the course of the past

few months so everything i just meant literally every single thing i just mentioned was in a nine-month period geez um so he had murdered a total of five women. And that's in addition to all the, like, violent assaults. Right. And he had gotten away with every single one. In October of 1977, 21-year-old Gene Jordan became his sixth victim. Sutcliffe realized he had left behind okay so he murdered her then he realized he had left behind um a five pound bill and was worried that it could be traced to

him so after hosting a family party at his new home he returned to the location where he had dumped her body to try and find the bill but he could not find it anywhere so instead he mutilated her corpse and then moved it elsewhere and the following morning her body was discovered by a local dairy worker and when police came they found the five pound note hidden in a secret compartment of her purse and after a lot of investigating local banks and transactions they were able to track it back to peter setcliffe so they they did find him and they went to his house but uh the alibi he gave of his party was solid enough that they really had nothing on him um so weeks they spent weeks on this and they were like so excited that they

finally had a lead and it just did not pan out so they were extremely frustrated uh and were not able to keep him for anything uh on december 14th of that year peter suckliffe attacked a sex worker from leeds named marilyn moore and she survived and was actually able to give police a description of the attacker which was huge and then in the next year he killed three more people jesus christ he honestly is going batshit crazy like he's killing and killing and killing and somehow not getting caught like on flukes on what year is this again 69 70 uh we're now in the 70s like late 70s um we're almost yeah we're in the late 70s jesus um his next victim was a woman named yvonne pearson who was 21 years old uh he repeatedly bludgeoned her in the head with a ball-peen hammer, then jumped on her chest before stuffing horse hair into her mouth

from a discarded sofa under which he hid her body near... under which he hid her body after he had killed her. And they didn't find her body for almost two months. Oh, my God. Yeah, it's really fucked up. And then 10 days after that he killed so 10 days after he killed yvonne so like still a month and a half before they even

found her body he killed um an 18 year old woman named helen ricka she was a sex worker and he struck her on the head five times as she exited his vehicle then he stripped most of her clothes from her body although he kept her bra and her polo neck jumper above her breasts and left them there like exposing her and then he repeatedly stabbed her in the chest and left her body between beneath some railway arches. And her body was found three days later. And then on May 16th, he killed a woman named Vera Millward in a car park. And then after that, his mother, Kathleen, died and he spent a year not killing anyone.

There was like a break in his. So, you know, it's related. Yeah. So she died in that year. And during that period, he didn't attack at all. But then a year later, on April 4th, 1979, Sutcliffe killed a 19-year-old building society clerk named Josephine Whitaker and she was walking home through a park and he attacked her it's just that really upsets me um and even though police did have forensic evidence to tie him to the murder don't tell me they didn't they

didn't bring him in well here's what. So police efforts were diverted for several months because they received a taped message that purported to be from the murderer himself that was taunting the lead investigator, George Oldfield. And it was a man's voice saying, I'm Jack. I see you're having no luck catching me. I have the greatest respect see you're having no luck catching me. I have the greatest respect for you, George. But Lord, you're no nearer catching me now than four years ago when I started. So they took this message and then went on this like spree of like finding the accent and like these linguists narrowed down the part of the UK that this person would be from. And then the daily mirror uh started

receiving letters and the police started receiving letters and they were published uh and basically like this totally derailed the investigation because it wasn't from the actual murderer so like just like someone like a copycat or like someone pretending not even copycat just someone fucking around with the police jesus christ it was just so sad so the letters were signed jack the ripper and claimed responsibility for the murder of 26 year old joan harrison joan harrison and at the time police didn't realize that that murder was not public knowledge so they just assumed that this person was telling the truth uh when in fact this person was just taking all the details they knew and writing jesus like detailed letters to the police

um and actually this hoax case was reopened in 2005 oh wow and they used dna to figure out who had written it who was it so they actually were able to take dna from the envelopes and entered it into the national database and on october 20th 2005 a man named john samuel humble an unemployed alcoholic and longtime resident of the ford estate in sunderland which was a few miles from castletown was charged with attempting to pervert the course of justice for sending the hoax letters and the tape can you imagine the day that dna became like an official thing cops could use every person who oh my god like committed a crime before and thought they got away with it was probably like oh shit especially stupid shit like this where you were just like drunk out of your mind you

were like this will be funny like it wasn't even like he was murdering you just had to wake up the next day and pray that they didn't even care about your case right and then like decades later suddenly they're like can you imagine like thinking you got away with doing something really stupid when you were drunk yep and then 35 years later especially when you were young and you were like well that was stupid i've now you look like it's one of those things where you think you're falling asleep and all of a sudden your brain brings back like a horrible memory but imagine that thing that you cringe at every night oh yeah by yourself is a thing that a cop calls you for 40 years later and is like by the way we're gonna arrest you and we have your fingerprints yeah so fucked up so they they arrested him what's the statute on that then so i don't know the statute

i mean this is also to get arrested after the uk i don't know like if they have different laws but um i mean it's only 25 years later it's not that long right but yeah so uh they found his dna and basically his dna had been taken in 2001 following a drunken disorderly charge so he was clearly still doing his thing partying he was partying hard you know as uh imagine thinking like you're gonna get away with like oh shit i got a dui that sucks but then finding out oh no what caused that's actually like not even my biggest problem anymore i mean he's clearly having some struggles so his dna had been followed had been already taken so they were able to match it to him and on march 21st 2006 he was convicted and sentenced to eight years in prison so once again um the real killer

is completely getting away with this right because this guy whether he was fucking around or not completely diverted the case and they were looking at and they've gotten a lot of criticism too for like focusing so heavily on that that they didn't look at other options and details um but yeah so suckliff was just like on his merry way to kill more people um on september 1st uh suckliff murdered 20 year old barbara oh barbara oh finally there she is found you found you uh he murdered 20 year old barbara leach who was a student at bradford bradford university um he dumped her under a pile of bricks close to her dorm it's so sad um and that was his 16th attack jesus christ uh she again was not a sex worker. She was a college, like just a college student.

So this again, like caused major panic among the locals. And there was like a big publicity campaign. And despite the, despite the false lead that what's his face? Humble, John Samuel Humble had given the police uh suckliff was questioned by police as a suspect as a possible suspect he was actually interviewed by police nine times throughout the investigation wow and was let go every single time jesus in april of 1980 suckliff

was arrested for drunk driving. It's all these drunk driving people that are getting in trouble. Maybe that's the lesson here, guys. Guys, if you were to take anything away from all this, it's that I need to marry an ice cream man. I don't know. Just trying to lighten the mood. The of the story okay anyway is snoopy ice cream so while suck cliff was awaiting trial for his drunk driving charge he killed two more women jesus while awaiting trial he murdered 47 year old marguer Walls and then 20-year-old Jacqueline Hill, another college student.

He also, during this time, attacked three other women who survived, but he still, like, gravely assaulted them. Jesus. On the 25th, one of Sutcliffe's associates named Trevor Birdzall reported him to the police as a suspect, but the information vanished into the paperwork and it was never followed through. Like, they didn't realize until later that he had been reported. They just never followed through on it. So that just gives you an idea how many times people were like, um, maybe look at this guy. Excuse me. it might be a good idea but whatever on january 2nd 1981 uh suckliff was stopped by police with a 24 year old sex worker in his car uh her name was olivia ravers and when the constable constable were in

the uk right right right i was like what there is a constable here too by the way yes i should know that when the constable realized that uh suck cliff had false plates license plates uh he arrested him and while he was getting arrested and being read his rights etc suck cliff said he was quote bursting for a pee you know all right yeah well yeah all of us are i mean you get it oh i'm there i'm there we're all bursting for a pee uh and asked if he could go behind that bush over there and go to the bathroom so the police were like okay and let him go to the bathroom and he then cooperated and they brought him into custody they questioned him and weird that was not the turn i thought we were taking

they were just like okay just wait this is called wait did the sex worker get away that time olivia away like she survived oh is that what you're asking like the one that he was in the car with that like the cop stopped him ahead of time yeah they caught him with a sex worker that was right but this but oh no but the sex worker's okay like yeah yeah no he wasn't killing her it was just like he he was just caught with a sex worker and they were like, okay, this is a routine. I'm just asking if she got away. She's fine. Okay, got it.

It was like a routine like, oh, this is illegal. We're going to bring you in. I see. You know. So, they took him in. um so they took him in they questioned him in relation to the yorkshire ripper case because he matched many of the physical characteristics of the suspected killer but unfortunately they couldn't hold him on anything at all they could not find a way to keep him so they were getting increasingly frustrated until one of the officers had a brilliant plan and this is uh where my

friend claire was like telling me about the story and i was like yes i like this this is what i want it i want it i want to do it so uh one of the officers had a brilliant idea uh he went back to the spot where suckliff had taken a leak. And when he walked around to the bush, he found a knife, a hammer and a rope that Sutcliffe had tossed under the bush. Got it. When he went to go pee. I'm there. And so. I thought this was going in a place where like the cop took a cup and scooped up some of the pee.

I did, too. And she was telling me this. That's why I was like, what's happening? But it's just like, oh, shit. Smart though, finally. So smart. Someone's finally listening. Exactly.

Someone was finally like, let's like rewind and think, what the fuck was this guy doing? Yes. So they found all these weapons where he went to go piss and they were like, okay, something's going on. where he went to go piss and they were like okay something's going on then they found a second knife in the toilet cistern which is like at the top where you pull the lid off and all that good stuff uh they found a knife that he had hidden in there when he was at the police station and they let him go to the bathroom which i don't know if they thought he had like like a like forget he had an extra knife on him or something he like had a i don't know right he's like like he's like forget he had an extra knife on him or something he like had a i don't know

right he's like like he shouldn't have tossed that with the rest of it because like whoops i forgot about this guy like i'll put the rope here but it's like a clue a game of clue like the rope is in the thing and the knife is in the bush i don't know uh yeah i don't know but they found it in the fucking toilet which also like did they not search him or like when they brought him into the what was going on in the police department what's happening here also like he put it in the toilet what's he gonna do also how often is he going to go piss in this yeah he's clearly not bursting for a pee after a drive to the department like he literally just went to the bathroom okay it's fine i'm not a police officer in case you didn't know that i'm

not an avid peer so you're not a what an avid peer oh peer oh i thought you meant peer like a class i'm not an i'm not a santa monica peer actually sorry oh i don't know i mean like i maybe if i like desperately had to pee all the time i would understand like his thought that he could get away with, like, oh, if I really have to pee right now and then in 10 more minutes. Well, earlier. Maybe he has a bladder condition. and she went out of the car to go pee, and I was like, why is she doing that? And then later we found out she was four months pregnant and had a miscarriage,

and I'm like, no wonder she fucking had to pee. Like, she was pregnant. She had to go pee, and she was walking on the road, and so it's like, this guy is fucking, I have to pee every five minutes. I'm four months pregnant. I'm four months pregnant.

I have to hide all my knives in the toilet. okay what a fucker okay so they let him use the bathroom he hid a knife so anyway after this they were obviously like we need a search warrant so they got a search warrant for his home and that's when they brought his wife in for questioning it's about time um and when they stripped him finally they strip searched him at the police station they discovered he was also wearing this is very strange an inside out v-neck sweater where he had pulled the sleeves like the arm sleeves of the sweater over his legs and then tucked the v-neck portion under his genitals under his pants okay like maybe like was it cold was that like an impromptu leg warmer it was like a very strange like presenting himself like he like purposely put the v-neck underneath his genitals to like i see to hoist them hoist him up

and then um the front of the elbows where his knees were like he put them over his legs were padded so that when he leaned over the his victims or his corpse like the corpses or the victims he would have like cushion on his knees so he put them on underneath his pants to give like extra cushion on his knees it's really fucked up see originally that was not where i was no i know because like i've worn my sweatshirt as sweatpants oh long johns right no yeah i'm like oh i have a sweatshirt next to me and i'm too lazy to get a blanket or sweatpants so i'm just gonna put them on my legs very different but not to murder someone not to

not to do any of the things you're so sorry about. Not to really hover over a corpse, really, usually. Not always. Not always. So, after two days of intense... So, at this point, they were like, what the fuck, guy? Like, you did it. Spill it. After two days of intensive questioning, on the afternoon of January 4th, 1981, Sutcliffe

suddenly declared that he was the Ripper. Over the next... That was easy. Yes. After two days of questioning, he finally was like the Ripper. That was easy. Yes. After two days of questioning, he finally was like, yeah, but it was me. And then over the course of the next day, he calmly described his many attacks in detail. And then weeks later, he claimed that God had told him to do it. Okay. You know.

Okay. As God does. As God does. to do it okay you know okay as god does as god does uh so he apparently only displayed emotion when he was telling the story of his youngest victim jane and uh when he was questioned about the murder of joan harrison he vehemently denied committing it and um that murder had actually been linked to him through the the it was called the where side jack so the guy who called and made all those like recordings and like they called him where side jack because they linguist determined that his accent was like a where side accent okay so they called him where side jack so they had connected another

murder of this woman named joan harrison to the work to wear side jack but it but he was vehemently denying that like he had anything to do with it and then it wasn't until 2011 that dna evidence actually proved that that murder had been convicted by like a completely different person who okay well at least he's finally on right he was like i didn't do that one so and that guy died in 2008 so it's just interesting that that guy who had left those messages and stuff like really fucked up so bad like he that's amazing he like and not in a good way no yeah truly yeah. Truly an amazement. Truly. He probably could have prevented, like, many people from dying. Imagine that guilt. Going to bed with that every night.

Yeah, because he was, like, having some fun. Yeah, it's really fucked up. So at his trial, Sutcliffe pleaded not guilty to 13 charges of murder, but guilty to manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility. Uh, he claimed that he had actually just been the tool of God's will. Same. Yeah. Amen.

Hallelujah. Uh, he said that he had heard voices that ordered him to kill sex workers. Actually, it said the voices ordered me to kill prostitutes uh while working as a gravedigger that's when he first heard the voices um and then he said that the voices actually originated from a headstone of a deceased polish man oh my named bronislaw sapolsky okay and that the voices were actually the voice of God.

Wow. All right. Let's just breathe that one in for a minute. Let's just soak it in. I don't want to. Me neither. So he ended up eventually pleading guilty to seven charges of attempted murder. Okay, so he ended up pleading guilty to seven charges of attempted murder.

The prosecution was planning on accepting his plea after four psychiatrists diagnosed him with paranoid schizophrenia. diagnosed him with paranoid schizophrenia but then the trial judge uh demanded like a really detailed explanation of the of the reasoning which was which is pretty uncommon uh-huh um and so after two hours of an explanation by the attorney general and then a 90-minute lunch break and another 40 minutes of legal discussion the judge rejected the diminished responsibility plea and the expert testimonies of the psychiatrist and insisted that the case should be dealt with by a jury so he was like i don't i'm not gonna buy this like um insanity exactly and it was really out of the ordinary because typically a judge wouldn't go that far to like disprove that right anyway so he was like this needs to be dealt with by a jury and uh that was set to

on may 5th 1981 so the trial lasted two weeks and despite the efforts of his counsel, Sutcliffe was found guilty of murder on all counts and was sentenced to 20 concurrent sentences of life imprisonment. The judge said that Sutcliffe was beyond redemption and hoped he would never leave prison and recommended a term of 30 years to be served before before parole could be considered meaning suckliff would have been would have been unlikely to be freed until at least 2011 and then on july 16 2010 the court issued suckliff with a whole life tariff which is pretty uncommon but it basically means he has no it's like life without parole like he just can't leave wow ever um and apparently only a handful of people received that wow wow crazy yeah um after his trial sucklef admitted to two other attacks uh and it was decided that prosecution for these offenses was quote not in the public interest so they just let them go even though he admitted to them interesting controversial i don't know um and then the

police also made it clear that these victims wish to remain anonymous so we don't actually know who they were even though he admitted to killing them um all in all he was convicted of murdering 13 women and attempting to murder seven others um but at the same time it's believed that there were a lot of other victims that didn't come up in the trial or you know weren't technically he wasn't technically charged with right right um and actually in response to the police so the police received a lot of criticism about how they handled the case um and in response uh the leeds revolutionary feminist group organized a number of reclaim the night marches so uh the group and other feminine feminist group had criticized the police for victim blaming, especially the suggestion that women should remain indoors at night.

And 11 marches in various towns across the UK took place on November 12th, 1977. And basically their point was that women should be able to walk anywhere without restriction and they should not be blamed for men's violence. without restriction and they should not be blamed for men's violence so it kind of like created this counter movement of like this isn't it's not our fault we shouldn't have to be the ones who like hide and whatever right um and then following his conviction and incarceration suck cliff uh changed his name to peter coonan which was his mother's maiden name okay you know just take that for what you will emotionally bold just yeah absorb it okay um and then despite being found sane at his trial he was later diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia um and then attempts to send him to a secure psychiatric unit were blocked um he was assaulted several times in jail uh one spy man

named james costello a 35 year old career criminal with several convictions for violence um who followed him into the hospital wing at parkhurst prison and plunged a broken coffee jar into the left side of his face. Fuck. Creating four wounds that required 30 stitches. While he was in jail, in 1982, his wife obtained a separation from him and then divorced him in 1994. So that was 12 years later. Wow. On February 23rd of 1996, Sutliff was attacked in his room um paul wilson a convicted robber asked to borrow a videotape then attempted to strangle him with the cable

from a pair of stereo headphones and then after an attack with a pen by a, like, literally a fucking ballpoint pen by a fellow inmate named Ian Kay on March 10th, 1997. Sutcliffe lost vision in his left eye, so he was completely blinded in his left eye. Oh my god. And his right eye was severely damaged. On December 22nd, 2007, Sutcliffe was attacked by a fellow inmate who lunged at him with a metal cutlery knife while shouting quote you fucking raping murdering bastard i'll blind your fucking other eye at least someone's doing it someone needs to set the record straight man um but while he was being attacked suckliff flung himself backwards and the blade missed his right eye and stabbed him in the cheek.

Okay. He told police this year, or like a few months ago, that he... I think it was actually the end of 2017, so not technically this year, but a few months ago. so not technically this year, but a few months ago, he told police and prison officials that he thinks he will be dead within a year because of his failing health, and he would like to go back to the prison that he was at before so that he can be with his friends. I know.

And before Christmas, he was like, it's the holidays, I want to go back and be with my old friends. And they were like, that's not how this works. Yeah, you're in prison. But he did get LASIK eye surgery for his eye problems. And some of the victim's families are very... Pissed? Pissed, yeah.

Because they're like, why is the government paying for his LASIK eye surgery? Let him fucking pay for that at the very least. Or like, why are we even... So it's kind of controversial in that regard. But he believes that he should be allowed back for Christmas with his friends. Whatever. He's now 71 years old. He's actually this year in 2018 has been questioned regarding 17 unsolved attacks that are very similar in

MO to the ones that he was convicted of. And there's just, they're thought to bear chilling similarities to the, um, the crimes that he actually did admit to committing. Um, and the list of attacks is thought to include several that include hammers as a weapon,

uh, just like what he used on all his other victims um and he recently wrote a letter because he was accused of potentially having something to do with two men who died and he wrote a letter that said yes i did some bad things but i just want people to know I did not attack or murder any males. Oh, wow. That makes you feel a lot more. Bravo. Bravo.

Bravo. Indeed. But West Yorkshire police decided in February of 2018, so literally last month, that it's not worth it to charge him with any more offenses because he's basically there for 20 life sentences. to charge him with any more offenses because he's basically there for 20 life sentences and it's kind of sad because it i mean i i understand they have other stuff to i guess yeah work on but no but i get it yeah so that's the story of the fucked up dude named the yorkshire ripper wow thanks claire slash ava woods author thank you for that disturbing little little story that i can't get out of my head that little my life that little ditty you know what fucked me up was

when you did jack the ripper mm-hmm that's pretty fucked up oh thanks it's like alarming to hear the violent stuff from another person because i feel like i already know it so saying it i'm so normalized to you telling me horrible things i know i must have just like traumatized you to a point where you don't react i'm just like oh yeah got stabbed when you were telling me about like jack the ripper i feel like that one wasn't even that bad compared to so many other things that you've had to tell me i think it was just like i get through it when i do notes and then i tell you but like just I feel like that one wasn't even that bad compared to so many other things that you've had to tell me. I think it was just like, I get through it when I do notes.

And then I tell you, but like just hearing it for the first time is like, wait, what? Oh, yeah. Anyway. So that's my story. Oh, good. Just do your thing. Do your thing. Thank you guys for listening. You can find us on facebook twitter instagram at atwwd podcast

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