And That's Why We Drink - E90 High Quality Demonic Excitement and a Serial Killer Crossover

Episode Date: October 21, 2018

Shout out to all our suspiciously beautiful listeners out there because you just might be a witch! This pre-Halloween spooky season Em brings us the history of Bloody Mary and answers the burning, eternal question, "Do little girls conjure demons?" and, spoiler alert, the answer is a resounding "yes". Meanwhile, Christine digs into the story of the dollar store Jack the Ripper, Joel Rifkin, aka Joel the Ripper. And we make plans for our upcoming live show in King Tut's Tomb, promo code: EGYPT... and that's why we drink!Please consider supporting the companies that support us! Get a free trial membership of Beach Body On Demand when you text DRINK to 303030Try a 2-month VIP membership with Grove, plus a bonus gift, when you go to grove.co/drinkTry ZipRecruiter, the smarter way to hire, for free at ziprecruiter.com/drinkAttention cat owners! Get 20% off your first order at PrettyLitter.com promo code DRINK.

hello hello this is two and a half weeks in advance okay currently yeah we're recording this way early because we're all moving around it's currently october 2 october 2 10 2 10 2 how are you you know what 10 2 is on the set i feel like i should know that it's poop oh if you ask where someone is and they say 10 2 it means they're in the bathroom yeah 10 1 is they're peeing 10 2 is they're pooping really yeah i've heard people say like take like 10 yeah well now you know what they were doing yeah anyway fun walkie-talkie facts for you we're Anyway, fun walkie talkie facts for you. We're full of fun walkie talkie facts. Also, why would you ever admit like, oh, 10-2?

Why wouldn't you just say long 10-1? I have to pee for a really long, I have a big bladder. Why would someone just willingly, it's not just like only one person hears that, you're like, you're walkied up to everyone on the crew. Like everyone knows what you're doing. Everyone on channel five of your walkie now knows. It's like switch to four okay yes now i'm pooping listen everybody poops them everybody poops everybody 10 twos i'm not

judging everyone 10 twos oh can that be on a shirt eva everyone 10 everyone 10 twos for god it'll be a whole nod to our days back in the industry in the biz as they say um how are you well i'm not 10-2 and so we're okay thank god because you're uh in my home in not in a bathroom so valid ideally you would not currently be doing that oh other than that i'm just normal i guess i'm glad we're doing this in advance because october is quite a wild month for us october is nuts dude well it's more wild for you i mean you're getting married so i don't really get to talk. I can't even really picture what post 10, 13 looks like. Me either. So who knows? No, it's busy for me in that it is Halloween season. So every weekend I'm a thousand percent busy. Sure. Also, it is Allison's birthday month. Right.

So I've been prepping that. Although by the time she hears this, her birthday will be like in a week, right? No, this is comes out the day after her birthday. Oh, the day after her birthday. Okay. So then she's already gonna be knowing what's going on. I believe so. 1021. I think it comes out. Yes, 1021. Okay, so then can I say what I did? Oh, yeah. All right. We did this last year too, remember? Yeah, we really hoped that it would come out after Allison's birthday and we didn't mess up the calendar. Yeah, yeah. So I am surprising her with a trip to Catalina. Shut up, that's so sweet.

And I just finished buying all of her presents yesterday, I think. And she's getting a whole lot of presents. Oh, that's so sweet. Let me show you a picture of one of the things because you're gonna be very jealous of it i can't wait um i feel like last year i was much more like it was much more personal and crafty but also like keep in mind last time um i was able to make a lot at iss or like i was able to like i had the connections like i could call people and get discounts on stuff so like it was able to make a lot at ISS or like I was able to like I had the connections like I could call people and get discounts on stuff. So like it was easier to be more creative because I had like literally a whole workshop to be creative. Yeah.

So now it's like we're going to go on a little getaway together. That sounds really nice. Well, for my brother's birthday last weekend, we went to Palm Springs. Oh, yeah. How was that? It was good. It was really nice to just like leave for a hot second. I saw some macaws

and they talked to me and they said hello did you it was cool and creepy how was the uh dinosaur park oh love the dinos did you go in the mouth um no because it was like 20 a person and we were like we're just gonna go to our hotel instead oh it's you can stand up in that dinosaur that you yeah next to and you can look down it's very cool and if you go in the um i don't want to call it a brontosaurus because apparently it's now called an apatosaurus uh-huh yes the if you climb up its tail and into its belly it's a gift shop we did go in there did you yes that was cool um yeah it was cool uh it was in cabazon and yeah it was cool we just didn't really it. So we didn't have time to do the whole shtick.

But next time. So this is one thing that I got her. Sorry, it just took forever to find. No, you're fine. I think you'll like it. Okay. So it's a hoodie blanket, but it's like Sherpa blanket inside. That is so cute.

It just looked really cozy. It looks so cozy. Oh my God, I want one. Yeah, you're right. I am jealous. And then I also, I got her a whole bunch of stuff. I'm sure you did. But basically the big thing is we're going away and I haven't decided yet how I'm going

to tell her. I mean, she'll know by now because she's there with me. Yes. But I also got her, we very regularly, we do, um, street, street food cinema. Yes. Um, which is for people who don't live in LA, they have movies in the park every Saturday and they're always in different parks, but you can bring like blankets. It's really fun.

He's like mean girls or elf. Yeah. And so they, uh, I got her one of those big inflatable, like lounge couches that like you like throw the wind in it and tie it off. And that's like a big inflatable. So cool. So when we go next, she has that. i got her some makeup from her favorite spots i got her um oh i got her the there's a box like one of those monthly boxes but it's called universal yums and it's candies

from all over the world oh cool so i got her a year subscription to that wow you're killing it man yep that's adorable so that's that's all I've figured out so far. Yes. That's a lot. And you're going to Catalina for like a weekend? Mm-hmm. Oh, sweet. I haven't figured out all the plans yet, but I figured out what we're going to do. I just haven't found out how we're going to live there for the weekend.

Okay, good. Because I was hoping to go to a Halloween party on the 20th, and I was like, it's Allison's birthday, but I assume Em has plans. No, I have plans. Cool. I'm going to a Halloween party. Woo-hoo! I think I'm going to be Janetet from the good place so all right that's gonna be awesome you can just go not a girl and then you can also pretend you're also me for how i'll be like m's not a girl yep um and then what

else was i gonna say oh this comes out the 21st this marks like a month away from my honeymoon so talking about traveling i'm so excited i'm gonna do a countdown all right i cannot wait going to belize it'll be a wild ride it'll be unbelievable shut up i will not do you have any like main plans the what you're going to be doing there i thought you'd never ask yes we're going to the mayan ruins and gonna get the tour of all the cool old sites and there's a jaguar preserve. And snorkeling. And it's just going to be dope. Go visit the village.

And I'm just really excited for the Mayan ruins. All right. I'm surprised you're not going to Egypt. Egypt? I just know you like Egypt a lot. I mean, I like ancient Egypt. Oh, that's true. I don't necessarily want to go to a...

I don't know. I would love to go to Colonial Williamsburg, even though I lived there my whole life. Or lived, I like ancient Egypt. Oh, I don't necessarily want to go to a I don't know, I would love to go to like Colonial Williamsburg, even though I lived there my whole life or lived near it. It's a very not safe space right now. Oh, valid. A lot of unrest, civil unrest. Wasn't even thinking about that. So just thinking about how you might be able to like, find your your past lives. I mean, I'm sure I'll go to the pyramid someday. Maybe when things have calmed down over there. Maybe when we have a live show there in many years. Cool.

In many moons. In King Tut's tomb. Oh, yeah. Well, actually, that's where the live show is. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Right in the tomb. That's what I'm saying. Wow.

Buy your tickets now. Pre-sale. Promo code Egypt. Oh, my gosh. So I have a really good story for you today. Great. It's not paranormal. I feel like I always have to warn people about don't do that every time you warn people people

turn it off really well every time you're like oh i'm doing this doll that might hurt you and then everyone turns oh it's not a doll we're fine i know um but by the way that's very paranormal that's probably the most that's too paranormal it's fair um so this is i just want people to finally hear my story. You just want... Okay, instead of stopping listening to us, why doesn't everyone just fast forward to Christine's part? Nobody does that. They just stop completely.

All right. So this is suggested to me. I don't know how to pronounce your name. I'm so sorry. S-A-I-I. Sai? Sure. Say?

Sai? She, they, I don't even know if that's female or male of a name. They suggested this many moons ago. Oh, okay. So probably got so fed up with waiting around for this. You don't even listen anymore. So sorry. But this is the history of Bloody Mary. Oh, oh, man. Oh, this is exciting. Yeah? Oh, shit. I was trying to think, like, this is like, because we're, this is like the most Halloween

of an episode we're going to be doing up until Halloween, correct? Oh, oh, oh. Because this is, there's one more episode before Halloween. There's one more before. Yeah, that we have not planned or recorded yet. Right. Okay, true. And so.

So we're getting up to the spooky point. Yeah. And so I was like, well, what's something kind of spooky? And I was like, hmm, what's really ruined people's childhoods? You did that with me with Casper already. Well, I'm going to do it again. Great. So this is more of a historical telling of Bloody Mary and then some of the things that have happened to others while they played the game.

The game is so scary. So I don't know where in the world this game is played. I don't know if it's universally played outside of America. So I'm just going to explain really quick. Sure. So Bloody Mary is a game that a lot of, I'm just going to be gender specific and say, and many girls sleepovers just happen to be the theme. I think, I mean, speaking from my own uh perspective as a little girl i was obsessed with

anything fucking creepy and oh wow terrifying look how far you've come yeah so i just feel like it's kind of like we would like to scare scare each other watch ghost stories i don't know and so i mean i was never around any guy sleepovers so true i assume they just like played video games until three in the morning and then fell asleep from the commercials it looks like they eat a lot of um bagel bites that's what i hear yeah i love tostino pizza rolls or something like that's the one um so and then meanwhile girls are like bloody man so um yeah so basically when you're at when you were like i'd say like nine to 12 yeah and you had a bunch of like a sleepover with a bunch of girls you would all go into the bathroom in the dark turn off the light sometimes

you would there's varying versions of this but the most generic one i can think of is you're in a dark bathroom you light a single candle and you have to say the name bloody mary three times to conjure a witch named bloody mary to reveal herself in the mirror and then a lot of people swear that they see the face of someone either looking at them or someone standing behind them. Oh yeah, that one's creepy when they say they see

a woman behind them. Or some people say that they felt something. Basically you experience some sort of demonic paranormal excitement. An adrenaline rush of sorts. Did you say demonic excitement? I imagine that's what it is. I love that. Demonic excitement. We're full of demonic paranormal excitement an adrenaline rush did you say demonic excitement i imagine that's what it is demonic excitement we're full of demonic hear it and that's why we drink we want to bring you the best demonic what's like our company mission we want to provide demonic excitement yeah the best quality yeah highest quality highest rated um but so organic

organic yeah of course and so so I'm now in hindsight. I don't know why. I mean, it's just when you think about like, oh, a bunch of little girls like they're hoping to find a demon in the mirror. But like, it's like those shirts we were talking about the wicked clothing. Like, yeah, let's let's summon demons. I mean, literally, that's what we did at sleepovers. Literally what we wanted to do.

So if you are a little girl, chances are you've summoned a demon. So just so you know, if you've ever been a little girl chances are you've summoned a demon so just so you know if you've ever been a little girl you've probably summoned a demon um so the beginning of bloody mary where does bloody mary come from i don't know fucking no well apparently it stemmed from the 70s that's when the i guess the game became really popular and the theory behind that is because a lot of people's a lot of little kids older siblings were in the 60s and being either raised by like the hippie generation or were part of the hippie generation themselves and so they were very into like open mind and spirituality sure okay someone along the way probably created this game for their

sibling or their didn't realize how much they were fucked. Her name was Bloody Mary. No. Also, fun fact, there are other names that she goes by based on different variations of the game. Really? Or based on where in the world you are where you've played this game. So Bloody Mary.

Oh, and also like the end of the game is you just like run away and scream that you saw something. Right. That's it. Like, I feel like other people are like, and then what happens after the demon shows up? But it's like, no, that's the game. you just like run away and scream that you saw something right that's it like i feel like other people are like and then what happens after the demon shows up but it's like no that's the game step two that's the game you just conjure a demon and then just like never close the portal and like laugh about it just like shut the bathroom door and hope uh nobody has to pee that night yeah and then there's always that like that one little girl i hope

nobody has to 10-1 yeah get it i get it there's that one little girl at every party who's like too scared and she's whining the whole time and then there's that other very dramatic girl at the party who's like i saw it eight times oh my god it's still here with me becky i can feel it oh my god i bet you megan still is there i know megan was totally there so the other names that bloody mary goes by is um megan only megan megan megan megan me me me um all about megan um bloody bones oh she goes by hell mary i love oh my god like i like like play on words uh-huh um mary worth and i will explain these soon mary worthington, Mary Wales, Mary Johnson, Mary Lou. Oh my God. Mary Jane, Sally, Kathy, Agnes, Black Agnes, Aggie, and Svartmadam.

Stop it. Stop it right now. Agnes? Yeah. Sally? What? I don't, okay. I didn't take the time to figure out every, the chronology. You're not going to say all 40 of them?

I'm not going to tell you the history of all 50 but um i'll tell you where the basic ones come from so okay basically uh it's a ghost that is said to appear sometimes oh i forgot about this of course sometimes in the story um which is the version i grew up with is that not only does the ghost of a dead woman or a witch or something show up in your mirror but she is also holding a dead baby oh that was the version i grew up with yeah and sometimes she like you just apparently look at her and know that she's coming for your soul what version do you go with did you remember playing mary even probably like this isn't normal you guys just had a fucked up even like look i know we're both from virginia but you can back the fuck off. I want to disassociate with all of them. No, I definitely had it.

The baby part really creeped me out because I never heard of it. I don't think I had the baby. I thought you were going to say, I think ours was like, she was like bloody or something. Oh, that makes sense. Because like bloody Mary. I think in my version, at least, she was like bloody. I think no one ever told me she was bloody, but it just kind of came up in the name. Maybe that's why.

Where I was like, oh, she looks dead, so there must be blood somewhere. Maybe that's why. Yeah. Anyway. I hadn't heard of the dead bait that's i heard that part really fucked up yep so uh shocker i guess she could be named after several people and so i'm going to tell you those histories right now i'm gonna tell you the four big potentials i just want to know about agnes though that's agnes we don't learn about. Oh, come on. Or Sally or Kathy. I don't know what's happening there. Kathy, that's good. Or Black Agnes or Aggie.

So Queen Mary, Mary Tudor, the Queen of England, is one of the most potential names for Bloody Mary. I feel like that's the one I learned. Yeah? That was the main one I saw. Although there were a lot of websites arguing that like that she has no affiliation with this really so a lot of people defend her as well basically her backstory which there's a whole other wild backstory that actually had no association to this so i just left it but basically she had a wildly phantom pregnancy which i thought was really cool whoa okay like the whole country was like you're faking it you're faking it she's like no i'm not and then like late like then like birthday came out and like

she was supposed to like give birth this baby and her stomach started deflating whoa and like the whole country was like okay where's the baby wow wait yeah so she because i mean you like have all the symptoms right like oh she like truly thought she was pregnant she got married to philip prince of he was the prince of spain i think and he uh two months after their wedding she got pregnant and or she thought and then everyone for some reason like thought that she couldn't get pregnant and so they were like you're lying you're lying and then she for the last six weeks it was like tradition that she was going to be in the chamber and like preparing to give birth and then when the day came on her due date like there was no baby and they're like oh maybe just a late baby and so they waited till june july and august the doctors were still waiting for this baby and nothing showed up and her stomach started shrinking so when she finally

realized she wasn't pregnant and like went back to normal and then apparently she thought she got pregnant again a couple years later and then her stomach was actually swelling because she died from pretentious potentially ovarian cancer oh but she thought she was pregnant and then she didn't have a baby this is horrible something something really traumatic like that happened anyway that's pregnancy that's its own wild story but in the midst of her life when she began to rule she also determined that she was going to unite her people under the true religion of Catholicism. And so in 1554, she signed an act that would result in the Marian persecutions. Oh, fuck.

Where she sentenced over 300 Protestants to burn at the stake. What is wrong? What the fuck? Because it's unifying the people and saving souls. Hear, hear. Thanks, priests. priest thanks let's bring that back yeah um so because she literally just killed 300 people to unify the world lord um she earned the name bloody mary yeah so that might and that she actually did earn that nickname so she deserves the nickname, I guess. So then another potential contender or a contender, a potential winner of the name, I suppose. A champion. A champion, if you will.

Mary Queen of Scots. Her husband slash cousin. Oh, maybe this is the one that I thought. Her husband cousin. Oh. Yeah. Got it. I thought you said it wrong at first.

Then you're like, no, that's it. Okay. The Earl of Darnley. While Mary Queen of Scots was pregnant. Mary. Yeah. yeah got it i thought you said it wrong at first then you're like no that's it okay the earl of darnley while mary queen of scotts was pregnant mary yeah the queen of scotts pregnant mary queen of scotts um while she was pregnant her husband cousin stabbed a man 56 times in front of her following the murder he also died mysteriously and people kind of wondered if maybe mary queen of scotts was the person who killed him. But they actually didn't even pay attention to her, even though after he died, she married one of the main suspects.

Oh, okay. She then, people were getting fishy, and so she ran to her cousin, Queen Elizabeth I, for protection. And instead of protection, Elizabeth threw her in jail because she was afraid of an uprising coming over okay um also enough rumors traveled that elizabeth also decided that mary was not worth keeping around at all and decided to put her to death by beheading oh god so good cousin maybe she should have married this one um truly so unfortunately the executioner who was beheading Mary was not skilled. He's an amateur. And it took many attempts to kill Mary. And after finally beheading her, he tried to pick up her head and say, long live the queen.

I almost said long live the queen. Long live the queen. He tried to lift up her head and proclaim that however he only grabbed her wig and uh when he tried to pick up her head the head fell out of the wig and rolled away oh my god this is horrible so they think that maybe she's bloody mary yeah i would be too i tell you what so, I'd get my fucking revenge. Third person is Elizabeth Bathory, who I think you should definitely do a story on. Yep.

Yep. Got a lot of requests for that one. Also known as the Blood Countess, and she was a Hungarian royal in the 1500s. She is the most prolific female serial killer in history, and she is said to have inspired Dracula. She got away with all of her murders because

of how much money she had apparently the king also owed her money so she's like wow like a big time yeah hundreds of girls quote disappeared in her castle and there are reports of cannibalism beatings stranglings stabbings by needles oh and lacerations from her own teeth marks were found in these bodies oh gross so there is um no way to get an official count but um the estimate is over 600 girls were found in her castle so another bloody human not so much a mary but an elizabeth oh god and then the fourth candidate for the title is Mary Bloodsworth. Oh. And she lived in Massachusetts. And they also think that she might be bloody.

Not bloody. Mary Bloodsworth might also be Mary Worthington. They just think that maybe the name has changed. Oh, I was going to say there's another similar one. Yeah. Worthington. And so she lived in Massachusetts and she sold healing herbs. She was so beautiful that people assumed she must be a witch.

So what? What? OK, but also what a life. Like, can you imagine being so beautiful? People think like magic must be within your soul. You deserve to die because you are so pretty. So you're so pretty. We should kill you.

No, I'm joking. But I'm not kidding. But like, honestly, you should go die. Seriously, get on the stake. OK, so one year um a lot of the girls in the village began to disappear and some of the village people went to um mary's home to ask if she had taken the girls because she must have since she's a witch and wants to absorb their beauty right makes a whole lot of question yes one night the daughter of the miller in town left in the middle of the night and walked outside in a trance oh her mother saw her leaving and tried to chase

her down but she did not respond and uh her screams woke up the neighbors and basically everyone was trying to chase this girl down um very much i know you don't know but eva very much like in hocus pocus when em is, you know, being... I imagine that story actually has something to do with this story. Because it's very... If you've ever seen the beginning of Hocus Pocus, it seems very much like Emily is being drawn over to the Sanderson house. Yeah, I know. I know you're there.

You feel it. I get it. So she was fixated on this house. She could not pay attention to anyone screaming for her to stop walking over. And eventually the villagers tried to see ahead of where she was going. And they saw Mary's house and it had a strange glow around it. They saw Mary holding a wand and pointing it at her. And the girl herself was glowing as well.

Oh, my. So the villagers chased after her. They almost caught her and they ended up catching her. But right before they did, Mary broke a mirror, cut her hand, and cursed all the women and girls of the village. And people call it the curse of Bloody Mary. Oh. Later, people packed in the courtroom noticed that Mary was pregnant, but she would not reveal who the father was. And she said, there is no father.

And so they assumed it must be a child of satan sure so the only logical explanation so they said the baby must die and so they took the same shard of glass no they did not mirror and they cut her so it can hurt her and something well i i don't know they just found something sharp i think okay and they just i'm reading too much into this um and so they slashed her thick enough that they also killed the baby um what the fuck so now a lot of people say that because the mirror was so important and vital in her death or involved in her death that mary bloody mary can now be summoned from mirrors where they sometimes see her looking out for help they say she wears a bloody dress with rusty chains draped around her neck and shoulders because in those days if a witch was buried in chains her ghost could not return

another story it's like the same the whole the girl was running over and the girl was in a trance and the village people were trying to chase her that whole story happened but a different ending is that a farmer ended up shooting bloody mary in the hip and she fell to the ground and right before she was burned at the stake she screamed at the villagers and cursed all people that they could find her through a mirror oof and so those are the four people that could be bloody mary i don't blame any of them for coming back and i think i would too so um elizabeth bathory she can go die. Right. For sure. So things that people have witnessed while playing this game. Oh, I'm excited for this.

And also very scared. Remember when there's a mirror behind me? I'm glad that's gone now. Yeah, for sure. Okay. So people have witnessed that after they played the game, later that night they heard someone walking up and down the hallway when they were the only ones home. A hall light has come on. A bathroom door flew flew open the tap started running full force and the shower came on all at the same time good you could hear someone drumming their fingers on the door

outside in the hall like on that door like someone like tapping their fingers on the door and then people have had their bedroom closet doors burst open as if someone was trying to like shove their way in one time someone's bathroom curtains caught on fire by themselves oh okay doors without locks have locked people inside the bathroom one girl ended her chance of saying bloody mary three times with also saying i don't believe in mary worth which, that's just asking for trouble. Then she tripped over the doorknob and broke her hip. Oof. People have come out of the bathroom and had 20 different scars all over their arms and legs that looked like they had been there for years and then later vanished that night.

Oh, okay. Some have smelled rotting flesh. Some have watched flesh. Can you imagine a nine-year-old being like, oh, I definitely smell rotting flesh. But also, like, kids are so in tune like you imagine if a kid went up to you and was like oh that was rotting flesh trust me i know okay setting the house you don't know where i've been okay moving away immediately also people have said that they have watched fresh flesh fall off of mary mary's face while she's staring at them some have seen mary throw her dead baby at

them um one person actually wrote a story because i obviously looked up like different people's cases of it and one person said that the that mary threw the baby at them and then whether or not she would have reacted fast enough to try to catch the baby once she threw the baby and the baby left her hands the baby vanished into her yeah you would never be able to get rid of that feeling i'd be like like trying to get it out wow i just feel it like inside and i'm like i need to like dry heave this out purge it um some have seen oh yeah mary throw the dead baby scratches all over their body like especially in places where they like couldn't have scratched themselves i don't like that some people have

said they were so scared they were closing their fists and then they like opened their fists and there was blood coming out of their hands from their nails digging in so much people have said that obviously she's going to reach out of the mirror and touch you items in the bathroom will move behind you in the reflection of the mirror that That's creepy. Friends, one person, I don't know if it was one person, but as a bullet, multiple people's friends have spoken Latin afterwards. Oh, shit. Now that is pretty cool. Puella, Puella Agricola.

Un'espectura, un'Puella nomine Cornelia. Oh my God. Becky's speaking Latin. Oh my God. Look at Becky talking about Cornnelia oh my god um so here are two little stories that i thought were worth reading verbatim quote i went into the bathroom turned off all the lights and turned around seven times while saying bloody marion each turn seven times is a different variation of the game okay i then stopped turning oh then i

stopped turning and faced the mirror i waited in silence for something to happen. I was about to leave when I heard a woman singing. I turned slowly back to the mirror and I saw her. She had long, dark brown hair that was soaked in blood. Her neck looked like someone had slit her throat. I tried to scream. When my brother started banging on the door and turning the lock, she became angry. She was smiling, but she frowned and reached out of the

mirror with one bloody arm and scratched me on the right side of my face i felt her nails strike so hard that i was knocked to the floor my head slammed against the side of the bathtub and i was knocked unconscious when i woke up i was in the hospital with bandages across the right side of my face what the fuck where'd you get that from um i think it was thought catalog oh okay i i actually have been saving this story for a while so i don't remember the but i mean again within the first three pages of google i just typed in like stories yeah of people playing bloody mary um another one probably from the same site was was this quote i I did the ritual. I stared into the mirror.

Nothing. I stared into all the corners and still saw nothing. Then right as I was about to turn on the switch, I caught a glimpse of someone. I looked closer. It was black and white and her mouth was wide open. I expected to hear a scream, but there was silence. There was black all around her eyes and she was a clear image. I was so frozen.

I just stood there looking her arms lifted up and her hands were bright red. A few of her nails were gone and some were almost all the way peeled off. I know how you like that. When the hands appeared to grab my shoulders, a chill ran down my spine and a rush of cold air blew on my back i screamed bloody murder no pun intended um turned on the switch and ran out the door i would never do this by myself people have also said that the lights will flicker on and off by themselves or that the toilet will start malfunctioning yeah and then there were a lot of stories i read of like sinks turning on

and off by themselves like the cabinets it's like silent and the sink turns on? Or like growling in the cabinets. That was kind of creepy to me. So this is the science behind it. Okay. I'm very curious about this. So staring into a mirror in a dimly lit room for a prolonged period can cause one to hallucinate. Oh, didn't we talk about that?

Yes, we have talked about that. Because I used to do that and the bella scary as hell the bella legosi mirror yes um i want some mirror of erised but i'm pretty sure that's from harry potter so i think so yes so um when you're hallucinating and looking into a mirror which i will delve into facial features seem to melt distort disappear or rotate and there is one guy who really got into the science of this and his name was giovanni giovanni and his last name was caputo so he ruined the magic not that really smooth sounding she for olympic now giovanni bernhard or bernard bernard it's always gonna be bernhard in my head no giovanni bernard schieffer lampagneli nothing quite rolls off the tongue so um he's born to be a star baby g as we're going to further call him um he created a phrase for this experience

and it's called the strange face illusion and it's a consequence of partially a dissociative identity to set a dissociative identity effect which causes the brain's facial recognition system to misfire oh so creepy other explanations for this have been self-hypnosis optical illusions and perceptual effects like the troxler fading which i will also explain so psychologist baby g he tested out um his theory on a group of 50 people and he had them all sitting in a dimly lit room in front of a large mirror for 10 minutes and just staring at it and then they wrote what they saw and all 50 people experienced some form of the strange face illusion and these were the things that they found either it's it's and or situations so some only saw one of this some saw a lot huge uh huge

deformations of one's own face that was reported by almost 70 of the participants that they just saw themselves a totally as a totally different person a parent's face with traits that had changed so almost their parents oh eight percent of those parents eight percent of those parents were still alive and 10% were deceased. I don't know if that means anything, but no matter. It's not just like they saw the spirit of their. Right. It's like in some cases.

Right. You could have said like, oh, I saw my mom, but my mom's still alive. Sure. Okay. They also say they saw an unknown person. They also saw potentially an old woman, a child or a portrait of an ancestor. And they also said they saw an animal face such as a of a cat pig or lion or 48 i've said this almost 50 of them said a fantastical and monstrous being

that's what happened when i mean am i the only one in this room who used to do that um i think it probably i tried doing it and then just freaked me out because a lot of people which was the almost 70 said that they saw deformations. Like they looked like they were, they saw themselves really old or things like that. You know, deformed like you're really old. I mean, obviously that's what that means. No, I, well, that was part, that was part of the breakdown of like deformations of like, oh, you're seeing like. A different.

Like you're seeing like your, your cheeks are caving in or you're seeing wrinkles or, or's other like much more like well i used to you know what i mean i used to it's all the time i don't know why pretty fucked up but i would do that and you would i would literally see like it looked like a demon like your face would turn in at least my face would turn into like demonic it's terrible it's terrifying because it really especially as a kid you're like staring at yourself in the mirror like it looks like i don't know i remember i did it once and it like my eyebrows went up like i was a fucking demon and like started smiling it was like the creepiest yuck oh it's not it's not good so um now that you've mentioned that some observers felt in the study that in the beginning they were watching themselves in the mirror but by the end many of them thought that the other

was watching them that's what it feels like the other way around and it like smiles at you it's very upsetting so if you look at your face in the mirror for a long enough time because your brain starts getting bored and neglecting the image you begin to feel a separation from your subjective experience and the person in the mirror so it looks like another person because your brain is just bored. It's not just like, I want to stare at myself for this long. No, it's just like, okay, I've seen this and now what? Let's make things interesting. And so it's trying to like look around while there's a person right here. And so it's separated. It's I see your identity is not the mirror after a while. I'm just staring at it. Also our brains. Um, it basically

comes from mistranslating the information in our eyes. So around, like I said, around 70% of people will see their face being like distorted in some way. They may look older or they may even look like a totally different person. And Baby G described the reason behind this as because the brain pieces your face together. So like the image, whatever you're currently seeing right now. Yeah. It's not one like snapshot picture right your eyes are always constantly updating parts of

of your site oh sure so it's like computing constantly yeah it's like the way that it was described in one of the websites which was super helpful was like imagine a quilt and like all the patchwork are different parts of your site oh okay and so like sometimes you're fixing this part of the quilt and sometimes you're fixing fixing this part of the quilt and so you're constantly like updating updating the information of what you're saying but it you never see it all in one time because our brains can't handle that it's like sensory overload okay and so that's why we see things in pieces but it looks like like a whole okay sure due to the dimness of the light or because you're strenuously focusing on one thing yeah um like staring into the mirror the images that our eyes

see might get distorted because the image is distorted because our perception um how would i describe it um our perception is that the person doesn't look safe because like since your eyes are trying to figure out are like since it's constantly changing like this part of the picture in this part of the picture it's trying to change something that's constant and so it's adding information that doesn't actually exist so it's like if i stare at my own face long enough it thinks that something has to change and so it'll accidentally throw something so it'll make my face look distorted in the mirror and because a face looks at all distorted it looks like a threat because if you think about it like a dead body

like it still looks 99 like a non-distorted human right so like if only a part of your face looks kind of distorted your brain still sees it as a threat or like maybe it's death or maybe it's disease or like i should stay away from fear yeah and so even if it's just a little distorted your instinct is to panic and so then your brain overworks and starts creating it to be even scarier and scarier to push you away get away yeah okay this actually can i just say real quick this reminds me of something when renee and i would have sleepovers back in high school and one time we were like 14 and she was like staring at me and we were like talking in the dark and all of a sudden she just got were like 14 and she was like staring at me and we were like talking in the dark and all of a sudden she just got like panicked and she just like hit me i'm not kidding

like punched me in the fucking face and i started i was like what the fuck is wrong with you she's like i was just staring at you and all of a sudden your face started like morphing and i mean we'd just been staring each other talking for like an hour and she's like i just been staring at you and your face started to like distort and she's like and i just freaked out it was like there's she just like panicked and fucking hit me in the face so ever since then i didn't let her look at me in the face at night but yeah she like well it makes sense then because like it was like panic all of a sudden yeah like your brain tries to tell you like this person is not is not the is not someone you should be near oh my god it hurt by the way really bad so then there's also the Troxler effect, or Troxler fading, which is, have you ever done

that test online or like with, where like you're looking at like a circle with a dot and then if you start one part of the picture long enough, the dot starts to fade away? Oh, yes. So that's the Troxler fading. So basically your brain doesn't have the energy or like the desire to notice everything all the time. Your brain's too fucking lazy. Mine is.

Mine is too. But so like if it's not focusing on something, it just tunes it out. Like you're not really thinking about like. It's like you don't need to know about this right now. Yeah. Like you're not really thinking about like how the chair feels right now. Right. Until you're focusing on it.

Like if you're not thinking about it, then your brain kind of just ignores it. That's interesting. And so while your brain is honing in on certain things, the rest of the space will fade away. And so like that circle dot example, it's because if you aren't directly focusing on it, your brain will ignore it. So it's not taking up space for unimportant information. And so it'll fit in basically where the dot was. It replaces it with like just white, like the rest of the paper, because it's just fitting it in with a familiar feature. So it doesn't have to pay attention to it.

Wow. And so basically it's like, oh, that's not important. I need this space in my brain for something else. So I'm just going to, I'm just going to like copy and paste basically a section that I'm paying attention to over there. Like the easiest way to just cover it up. To like block it up. Yeah.

Wow. And so it's the same with your face. If you stare at your eyes long enough, but you're not paying attention to your ears or your mouth, it'll try to replace eyes with where your ears are. It'll try to replace like cover it with if there's like, especially if you're in a dimly lit room, like if you have like a certain contour, like let's say you have dimples, they might, your brain might be seeing that as just like random dents or black spots. And then I'll try to put them in other parts of your faces.

So it starts looking like your face is distorted when it's just trying to copy and paste parts of your face onto other parts of your face so that doesn't have to think about it but then it looks creepy and then your brain overthinks about it being a threat and so it just gets worse and worse it's like oh let me just put a dead baby here where your face mouths are right so like then that's that's the argument though it's like okay well that's for a very specific case of bloody mary where if you're just staring at yourself forever but it's not like you're in there with a group of like 10 girls and everyone's giggling and looking around and not hardly focusing like right very intensely focusing on something right so how come it happens then when you're not really focusing and they don't have an answer for that they just think that's

at that point it's just like mob mentality it's probably more just like a bunch of kids saying they saw something yeah yeah also there's always the you know the explanation of like you're in someone's house you don't know like you could see a shadow in the dark and not know what it is right right assume it's a person or if somebody sees something and then it's like power of suggestion like oh i think i saw that too yeah interesting anyway that is bloody bloody mary that is wild that was a good one though oh good i really like that good i'm sorry it was more history and science than anything no it was cool like i didn't know that about the science aspect of it i think i did it justice i tried to explain it multiple times in my head before i said it out loud made total sense i feel like someone's gonna write back and be like actually i invented the

troxler i am giovanni i'll be like baby g dr baby g if you want to call me out baby g only by all means baby g can talk to us nobody else um okay wow that was good all right ready for mine yes okay so this is the story of joel rifkin aka joel the ripper, I don't know who that is. I find it kind of comical. Sounds like a knockoff of Joel the Ripper. Yeah, like the Dollar Tree version. Yeah, it literally sounds like a doll that's kind of not the best quality. It's like the one that your parents buy if they can't get their hands on the real one in time for holiday shopping.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. So, Joel the Ripper. I wish this were funny, but it's not oh okay and that's the end of laughing everyone i hope you had a good time you're gonna feel bad now okay uh this is for joel rifkin so he was born january 20th 1959 um his birth parents were two unwed college students who decided to put joel up for adoption because they couldn't care for him so when he was three weeks old he was adopted by an upper middle class Long Island couple named Benjamin and Jean Rifkin. And in 1965, when Joel's six, his family moves to East Meadow,

Long Island and enroll him in a local elementary school. So his family life was like really good. He, his parents were loving. I mean, so far sounds great. Yeah. They really loved him. Um, after apparently they liked having a child, like, so they adopted him three years later um they just liked having a kid so much they adopted another girl so he had a sister that sounds like you're like your family just like just i like this like oh i like how this is going let's just keep it up let's just see how it goes yeah it's really it was so that was sweet it was good for then for for now for now oh um and so they enroll joel in the local elementary school but unfortunately joel had a lot of trouble at school um he actually had undiagnosed dyslexia and really struggled with academics even though he had a

really high iq of like 125 or something wow and he's the one that was adopted yes okay so both can you imagine if they just like adopted your sisters and they became like Julia the Ripper? Like Julia the Ripper. Julia the Ripper. Wait, Julia the adopted one? No. No, Julia the biological one. Damn. Jessica or Marlon.

Oh, Jessica. I was trying to think of the J's. Yeah. Jessica the Ripper. Jessica the Ripper. That could be like the. I mean, time will tell. Female version.

We don't know yet. It's not too late. Oh, God. So he really struggled with school, but the more disturbing part was the bullying he received at school. Got it. He was targeted because he kind of had like a sloping posture and a slow gait. So they called him the turtle. Really cruel.

He tried to make friends by joining the track team, but they taunted him so badly that he quit. So he tried to join the yearbook staff. And he was kind of nerdy. And he and his mom both really liked photography. So he was like, well, I'll join the yearbook. His classmates immediately stole his camera. He never got it back. And he was not invited to the rat party at the end of the year.

That's so sad. Because kids are fucking cruel. Also, why were kids in fucking charge? Where was the teacher being like, no, everyone gets invited? I don't know. Kids are just mean. I know. I know. Kids find a way. Kids find a way Where was the teacher being like, no, everyone gets invited? I don't know. Kids are just mean. I know. I know.

I know. Kids find a way. Kids find a way to bully. I know. The turtle. I mean, that's just evil. Yeah. So kids are cruel is the moral of that story.

So Joel basically had no choice. He couldn't. And the sad thing is that he really tried to make friends and like. Yeah, that is really sad. People just wouldn't accept him. So he tried, had to basically isolate himself and turn inward and he became obsessed with the alfred hitchcock film frenzy in which which i have not seen in which a london serial killer strangles his victims with a necktie oh boy so joel kind of

turns it into his own little world in his head and he becomes fixated with the idea of strangling women well it had to start somewhere. Yep. He's a teenager at this point, and his parents give him a car. He would basically troll around the area picking up sex workers and just having sex with them, basically. By the time he graduated high school and started at Nassau Community College, he was spending almost all his time with sex workers

and was just obsessed to the point that he spent pretty much all his money on paying them and ended up moving back in with his parents because he couldn't afford to live elsewhere. He stopped focusing on school, rarely showed up for classes or part-time jobs. And finally in 1984, he just dropped out entirely. So in 1987, unfortunately, Joel's father took his own life because he had terminal cancer and was in a lot of pain so he took his own life as a way to end the cancer pain and Joel gave the eulogy at the funeral and basically from there things just unraveled further in his life so things just added stacked up in a very very bad way bad way got it so by March of 1989 at this point Joel's already 30 and at this point he can no longer contain his violent fantasies so he acts on them he waits until his mother leaves on a business trip and then he picks up a young sex worker named suzy brings her back to his parents home where he bludgeons her and

then strangles her to death then he takes an exacto knife and dismembers the body uh in an attempt to hide her identity also with just an exacto knife like that takes like a lot of like heart to like really gruesome and yeah you're right like like that's not like a quick cut no that's really you really have to want to hurt somebody yeah yeah so he basically is desperate to hide her identity so he cuts off her fingertips and removes her teeth sorry y'all the two things em and eva both hate teeth and fingers fingernails it's okay we'll talk about you later i know you will either way i might as well make you miserable we're texting you we're texting about you already

so it's fine uh geo's duo in the geo's sad. Oh, listen, they already kicked me out of the Boston photo for the Wilbur show. So might as well throw Eva in there. Did we mention that in this episode, by the way? Not in this episode, no. Oh, buy tickets for our Boston show. Yeah, please buy tickets for the Wilbur Boston show. I meant to mention that. I'm still having an aneurysm that we're not going to have that place sold out.

So prove me wrong. Bit.ly slash atww atww boston okay all lowercase yes so anyway nice plug for our live show as i continue on this horrible murder story shameless plug fire tickets wilbur theater anyway the definition of shameless yeah god how horrible okay um da da da da da exacto knife right back to that oh shit he cut off her fingertips we know and the teeth yeah okay so you use the exact knife in her no he's pliers sorry i wasn't gonna say it you asked i'm sorry i i mean there's no it's not like it's worse or better but i guess when i imagine a level of pain it's better than exacto well to be fair she was gone at this point like oh okay i mean not just her but it was a way to hide her identity after she had passed so it wasn't like a method of torture thank god he had

already bludgeoned her to death oh thank god yeah right now and we don't mean it that way i just mean you know this isn't at least she's not in war pain. Yeah. Yeah. So he dumps Susie's head and legs. Oh, sorry. Forgot an important detail. He stuffs her head. He takes her head off. And he stuffs her head in an old paint can and stashes the rest of her body in garbage bags and then dumps the head and legs in the woods in Hopewell, New Jersey, and tosses the arms and torso into the East River back in New York.

and tosses the arms and torso into the East River back in New York. So, despite Joel's extremely elaborate plan to hide his crime, the head was discovered several days later by a member of the Hopewell Valley Golf Club. Can you imagine? You're out golfing, and you're like, what's this paint can? Oh my god, I cannot even fathom the trauma of that. Oh my god. When was it found? When was the body found? three days later what do we know what time like what month this was because my really all i'm thinking is like oh if this was october i'd be like oh that's a good halloween decoration and then i

would be like oh sure yeah no it's uh march okay so like so no not a good one got it um and it's in the woods basically so this guy i guess is golfing or in the area. Oh, I see. And he stumbles upon a paint can that is really full of nightmares, basically. So, unfortunately, police... Oh, my God. I'm sorry. Now I just can't stop thinking about finding a head with no teeth in a paint can. It's horrible.

Okay. I hope that person sought therapy. So, unfortunately, police couldn't determine the young woman's identity um so i guess he succeeded on that front um a year later joel claimed his next victim he waited until his mother was out of town again then picked up a sex worker named julie blackbird and brought her home and um i guess she spent the night because it wasn't until the next morning that joel beat julie with a table leg then strangled her to death he dismembered her corpse in a similar fashion but this time he placed he's like i've learned and he placed her

body parts in weighted down buckets that were weighted down with concrete um and then tossed the remains into the east river and a brooklyn canal can you imagine how many things are like horrible things are weighed down in rivers oh like if you it's kind of like do divers really want to go all the way to the bottom of a you know do you really want to go late like think of how many people have done horrible things and gotten away with it because they're it must be like its own morbid graveyard down there that's horrible it is but he's not the only person to throw body limbs down into water. Especially in such a high concentrated area like New York, Brooklyn, New Jersey.

Woof. Okay, moving on. Woof indeed. Yeah. So in 1991, so he's 32 at this point, Joel decides to start a landscaping business. Oh, Jesus. A constructive member of society not really basically he used the rented job sites where he was working to stash the corpses it was like a front until he

could properly dispose of them um so his victims that year included barbara jacobs mary linda luca and yun li and sorry i thought of chun li from nikki minaj sorry oh jesus christ sorry i thought you said that at first and i was like is that what nikki like wrote her song about and i was like no that's the not at all literally not literally not at all what that song's about sorry no you're fine okay so did not mean to disrespect a murder victim oh yeah i think i just thought maybe i said it wrong but i think that's right no you said young lee i heard chun lee i see okay yes young lee um joel rifkin would go on to strangle 17 women in a span of four years jesus and because of so many of these women were sex workers and because joel had dismembered their bodies like so intentionally um it was really difficult for

police to identify the victims and much less like who was perpetrating these crimes basically um so he had this thing for oil drums so a lot of times after god okay just keep going yeah it's just it listen it's just it doesn't get better i've never heard of a story about an oil drum where at the end i was happy where you were like that's a great use i was like oh wow i've never even thought of putting an oil drum there i've never heard a story about an oil drum where like there's actually just oil in it right yeah no one's ever just told a boring story about an oil drum there's no there's nothing good inside an oil drum right so he stuffed their bodies in oil drums often and uh would dump them throughout the area usually into bodies of water like the graveyard we mentioned i don't do it um in 1993 joel rifkin strangled a woman named tiffany bresciani put her body in the back seat of his car

then drove back to his mother's house where he was living but not before stopping at a few stores on the way home to pick up some rope and some tarp and other tools right oh and some more oil drums just like stack some oil drums on the time tie them to the roof on the ski rack. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the whole time the body's just like laying in the back of the truck. It's like nobody notices. Amazing. Do you ever wonder like what kind of nonsense is in someone's car?

Completely always. I do too. All the time. I'm like, I wonder who's getting away with it. What's in the trunk? What's in the trunk? I don't know. Yeah.

Scary. Yeah. So he gets home, moves her body into the garage then leaves in a wheelbarrow in the summer heat for three days before deciding to dump it oh those are both gasps i thought the second one was a yawn i was like no it's a loud yawn he was on his way to dump the corpse about 15 miles north of his home when police troopers happen to notice that his truck is missing a rear license plate so they attempt to pull him over, but instead Joel leads him on a high-speed chase, eventually crashing his car into a utility pole

in front of the local courthouse. When troopers approach the car, they notice a very strong odor emanating from the back of the truck. Oh, wait, let the little children explain to you. It's the smell of rotting flesh. Duh, Megan. Don't worry, I know about it.

I know what that's like. Oh, I thought you were talking about she smells because she's a dead fucking corpse oh no i was thinking you're talking about okay wow we have so many references to children being so in tuned with rotting flesh we clearly had a troubled adolescence both of us i think that's the only explanation for this yeah so megan um so they notice a strange odor that children know well. And it is the smell of a dead body. And you guessed it.

It was Tiffany's body. So obviously Joel is immediately arrested and homicide detectives begin interrogating him. And pretty soon he describes all 17 murders to the police and fesses up to all of them. He writes out all the names he remembers. He even sketches some maps to help police find the victims that were still missing that they didn't even know about in fact 25 year old iris sanchez's body was found right where he left it in a vacant lot by jfk airport underneath a mattress and he like drew them a map and they went there and found her body oh my god yeah so they had his confession so they they go to his mother's home and scour for evidence in Joel's room.

Okay. This is a phrase that I heard that, that I read that I didn't know and had to Google. They struck pay dirt. Pay dirt. Oh, even knows that. Oh, even smarter than me. Well, I Googled it and it said mother load and I was like, oh, it's like another word for mother load.

Like they struck the mother load. Oh, but I just was like, did I read that wrong? But yeah. Okay. I guess it's like another word for motherlode like they struck the mother load oh but i just was like did i read that wrong but yeah okay i guess it's a thing um for smart people kevin did you put that on your zip recruiter resume that you know what the word paydirt is yep her vocabulary is more expansive than ours as her hair just flips from left to right yeah so they struck the mother load paydirt recovering dozens of id cards driver's licenses and credit cards photographs articles of jewelry and piles of women's clothing that he had taken as tokens basically from his victims um and then out in the garage they find a wheelbarrow and a chainsaw stained with human gore is what it said human gore wow that's worse than blood i i yeah i was

gonna say blood but i was like i think it's more descriptive if I use the term because he cut up bodies. It's weirdly descriptive and more vague. Yeah. At the same time. It's like you can guess what it is, but it's worse than you think. It's worse. Yeah. Yeah.

It's just anything you could think of, I guess. Yeah. So the next day, Rifkin, so he had confessed to all these 17 murders, right? He shows up the next day and pleads not guilty and they're like really you just fucking drew a map to their bodies like what are you talking about not guilty with my list of 17 names yeah forget that map and it was an accident i'm like what do you mean you're not guilty so he's transferred to the nassau county correctional facility um to prepare to stand trial and on may 9th 1994 joel rifkin is sentenced in the exact courthouse where he had crashed his car up

poetry yeah i wrote ironic and then i was like i can't say that because i was gonna be like actually irony is not this or that or elance more set us wrong i don't know but it is ironic i think it's ironic i think it's ironic I find it to be ironic. Isn't it ironic? Yep. And that's how we're going to end that. And that is our final say. And that is our argument. And that is that on that.

Take it or leave it. What am I going to say next? Here we go. Probably something else incorrect. Okay. Hold on. So he's initially sentenced to 25 years to life for murder and reckless endangerment for leading police on a car chase which at first i was like 25 years for like murdering someone

doesn't sound like much but i guess that was the max at the time um so ultimately he's found guilty of nine counts of second degree murder and is sentenced to 203 years to life in prison 203 to life and i always think like oh that's funny like as if but i'm like who knows maybe in 50 years we all will live to be 200 i do think about that i know like it's so unrealistic that that that we will be worried about that ever trying but i mean like i do wonder it's like if someone gets like 150 years it's like maybe yeah maybe it's entirely 151 i think it's entirely possible i mean if he goes to jail at zero like well fair yeah yeah but i mean who knows i realized that after the fact but

even on like 100 or 200 years that you don't know what technology like maybe they maybe they do live to be 300 does it ever blow your mind that one day they'll like be a year like year 11 000 yeah it does except then i think we'll the earth will definitely be obliterated by then i feel like there's no way humans are no we're 11 000 we fucked something i mean we fucked something up already yeah we're already on a bad bad track bad path yeah yeah yeah we've really laid laid a bad path for ourselves um what we've done is dug a grave we've done quite our own grave what is that thing you made your bed now we gotta lay in it yeah you made your you made your grave now you gotta go build your coffin and then you're gonna really just hate your life

when you're lying in there you know that old saying yeah what do they what do we call it an idiom and oh no i think your phrase of it was an idiot m i know but i don't want to harp on that that makes me feel mean okay 25 years to murder okay to murder to life well jesus christ okay 25 years life he sentenced for to 203 years um his first possible parole date is february 26 21 97 uh when joel will be a mere 238 years old oh you know easy peasy yeah young small potatoes small potatoes in early 1994 it was reported that rifkin had engaged in a jailhouse scuffle with a mass murderer named colin ferguson who's also on my to-do list the brawl began when ferguson asked rifkin to be quiet because ferguson was using the prison phone

um and he couldn't hear so according to the new york daily news the fight escalated after ferguson told rifkin i killed six devils and you only killed women. And then Rifkin responded, yeah, but I had more victims. So then Ferguson just punched him directly in the face. I was like, well, that's quite a way to respond. I love a crossover story. I can't wait until you tell his story. And then I can be like, oh, remember that time?

Yeah. It'll feel like the Avengers. You'll bring some like drama. And you're like, well, I heard that he punched this other guy in the face. It was awesome. Oh, my God. You should have seen it. We were all there.

I can't believe you weren't there. Megan. Megan, stop bragging. Okay. Punched him in the face. Prison officials decide his presence is too disruptive, which I guess is probably true. So they move him into solitary imprisonment for more than four years where he gets 23 hours a day alone.

And then one hour a day of like sunlight and sunlight to go outside, which just is nightmarish. And so in 2000, he sued saying his solitary imprisonment was unconstitutional, but a state appellate court determined that his rights were not violated. And he had actually sued for $50,000 for each of his 1,540 days in solitary confinement, which would have totaled $77 million. Oh, my goodness. But had he received any money, it would have been subject to state laws that earmark most of the award for families of the victims.

So that was interesting, because I was like, oh, well, this fucker doesn't deserve $70 million. But then I was like, well, also it would have gone too right so i don't know it's kind of backwards so corrections official so he obviously did not win that case right um corrections officials now say that he is in prison with more than 200 other inmates at clinton correctional facility who are not allowed to go into the general prison population and i only know that term from orange is the new black perfect at a sentencing you know my trusty source i mean yeah netflix it's 2018 it's definitely what is yes oh you mean that i'm using netflix as my source yeah oh yes yes yes don't blame me i'm a millennial haha at a sentencing hearing in 1996 joel rifkin

apologized for the killings and admitted that he was a monster which i thought was surprising don't blame me i'm a millennial haha at a sentencing hearing in 1996 joel rifkin apologized for the killings and admitted that he was a monster which i thought was surprising because he didn't seem at least he's aware yeah he didn't seem very remorseful until now so all right at least that so he apologized to the families um and then in a 2011 interview when asked how he managed to kill 17 women joel said quote you think of people as things oh just like dark very direct yeah yeah he also said he couldn't he just couldn't stop himself um and then he admitted to choosing sex workers as his victims because they live on the margins of society and travel a lot so they're harder for people to uh to report as missing right or to even notice maybe that

they're missing right um which is just so sad now this is uh okay remember how i said it wasn't funny until or it wasn't funny after that first line well there's some some funny thing now all right let's hear it so joel rifkin was also a bit in a seinfeld episode and the episode was called the masseuse um and elaine's boyfriend is named joel rifkin and they go to a new york giants game and i guess they announce his name on the speaker and he everyone like stares and remember this took place in the 90s so it's like oh right timely very topical topical um so i guess when he noticed and she kept saying like you got to change your name and he's like no it's fine and then he notices everyone's like staring at him um so he agrees to change his name but basically the whole point is

the whole bit is that they can't agree on a name. Right. They keep going back and forth. And so that's that. So that's kind of a funny reference that I thought was random. I feel like that would have been literally you as a TV writer in the 90s. Like, oh, well, I'm researching this thing for my true crime podcast. But you could use it for our show.

That's so true. Yeah. Why don't we name him Joel Rifkin? Mass murderer. Yeah. You should just start doing that if you ever work for another show like can you imagine if you worked at nickelodeon you're like let's just like name him oh god ted bundy what about son of sam that's a cute cartoon yeah that's fun son of sam oh my god how horrible um okay so that is the story of uh joel rifkin and we do know that he is a capricorn we do so i pulled up a nice little horoscope nice since last week we only had a geoscope two weeks ago two weeks ago right correct yes sorry my bad no two weeks ago we had a geoscope so now we have a

capricorn scope okay you know just accept it okay it's this is it and this is that joel it's all about pushing boundaries today uh-oh no uh-oh isn't like pushing boundaries and you're already a serial killer yes yeah don't do that don't push any more batteries be the first person to bring up a taboo topic and watch how everyone reacts. No. This is the first one I pulled up. Like, I'm not making this up. This is way topical.

It's very unsettling. It's very on brand. Very on brand. Very on brand. You're able to trigger some interesting responses and get a conversation going. Yeah, that's for sure. Get your controversial opinions out there. And now this was one this was

the same website but it was like a paragraph or two down so i just copied and added it got it for way too long the misconception that you have to fit in has been dictating your behavior even if you haven't realized it you've been subtly editing yourself and altering your attitude thinking that it will get you farther what you may fail to realize is that who you are is defined in part by how you're different from everyone else do things your own way you'll meet little if any resistance strike out and show everyone the real you oh boy those are kind of spooky man very wild like in context yeah for sure anyway that's the story of joel rifkin who i actually had not heard of before this episode so yeah i know it sounds sounds i don't know i like that he had his little seinfeld moment yeah yeah

i mean i she probably doesn't deserve it no but i still liked it i like that they could spin it to be funny yeah like we try like what we attempt like my therapist tells me to stop doing she's like you know freud talked about this i was like i'll see you next week goodbye i'll see you in freud in my dreams see you um all right all right all right so um next week is halloween week dun dun what are we gonna do what are we gonna do um i don't know what we're gonna do for halloween yet we should do something spooky considering we're recording this enough in advance that we have time to figure it out um oh man so is today poop day i guess so huh if it's 10-2 congratulations happy happy poop day happy 10-2 also like wow what a full circle we started with poop and ended with poop we did didn't we good episode i mean that sounds about right it's

not it's hard for us to get away from that all right well moving on uh happy pre-halloween everyone happy now birthday allison and um you guys can find us on our social media we have facebook instagram twitter and we have our patreon page all under atwwd podcast please donate and please follow you get a lot of good information from us on our social media about tickets before they actually go on sale and things like that. So we're worth paying attention to. So give me your attention. We're worth it. Okay.

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They'll be drinks. They'll be fine. They'll be fine. We need some attention. But please come because I'm scared. That being said, and why drink?