And That's Why We Drink - E93 The Broad of Broadcast and a Love Rhombus

Episode Date: November 11, 2018

Welcome back to the ghost story and murder situation show! It's Friendiversary time, folks! And this year Em got Christine a new fly fishing rod from Dicks! Just kidding but celebrations did ensue and we've got that Instagram-worthy story here. Em also brings the creeps with the tale of Rose Hall Manor in Montego Bay, Jamaica and Christine covers the gruesome murder of law student Lauren Giddings. We also venture back into the dangerous world of high school geometry... and that's why we drink!Please consider supporting the companies that support us!Get 20% off your first order of Bombas socks when you go to bombas.com/drink and enter promo code DRINKTo get 36 bottles of Hint Water for $36, visit hint.com/drink and enter promo code drink! For a total of $60 off, that's $20 off your first 3 Hello Fresh boxes, go to hellofresh.com/drink60Get up to $55 in postage, a digital scale and a 4 week trial of stamps.com by going to stamps.com, clicking the radio microphone and using our code DRINK

happy friendiversary happy friendiversary what a day you want to tell them about it yeah so okay so first things first i wake up to my phone ringing and it's em and i'm like oh hello and em goes happy friendiversary to you and by the way it didn't stop i listened to the whole song the whole song and many more and then was like okay i gotta go bye and i was like oh okay goodbye that was all i that was all you needed that's all i needed i wanted you to you know i wanted you to want a little more yes and and that i did and then um em and eva came over and em took us on a special adventure an hour up north sorry no i wasn't aware of the distance it wasn't even that it was

literally just that i was like i don't know where the hell we're going um and then we show up and lo and behold it's a place called fun box is that right fun box and it's basically like instagram heaven yeah it's like a whole it's like a fun park for instagram it's like every little spot is just like a perfect picture snap worthy right like everything like there were different i don't even know how you it was like a maze of like different installments where you could installments yeah oh yeah i tried interactive installments where you can like sit on things and like pose with things and just all perfectly situated for like the perfect Instagram photo. Yes. And we also ran into someone who knew us because someone who worked at Funbox recognized us.

And apparently she was like, the second you guys walked in, I knew who you were. And so when we came in, she, I guess, said like Pam, by the way, her name was Pam. And we asked if she would take a group picture of us before we came in she i guess said like pam by the way her name was pam and we asked if she would take a group picture of us before we knew that she had recognized us and as we're giving her the phone apparently under her breath she went oh and by the way i love your show and all of us at the same time heard oh by the way i love your socks so christine steps in and goes thanks i think they're great for halloween and she was like what the fuck just like not that's not what i said but she took it in stride she did and ended up taking a lot of pictures of us and giving us some good tips and we're just gonna be like pam pam come over here help me help me

it was great it was a good time um and it was super fun they have at the end like a giant pit like a ball pit but with like it looks like you're in fruit loops with like a giant spoon and so we got all sorts of photos like i spooned a spoon you spoon a spoon uh eva got buried in fruit loops and then like popped out it was super fun and uh then we all three of us went to lunch together had a little powwow bonding sesh and then we came back we drove home and then and then i was like, oh, OK. So we were in the car. And then we get to a weird call. And it's like, this might be spam.

And there's a voicemail. And they're like, we have your weed cupcakes. And I'm like, did you order weed cupcakes? And I was like, no. I really didn't, by the way. No, no. By the way, that was not the story. But we were like, what are weed cupcakes?

And so we're like, whatever. It must be a scam. And then we get home. And I'm like, what is this purple tissue paper in my doorway? And there's a freaking like edible Halloween edible arrangement like with chocolate. It was called the pumpkin patch package. Like on the doorstep. Which, by the way, is synonymous with the fact that since it's our friendiversary, we met and became friends finally at a pumpkin patch.

At a Harvest Fair pumpkin patch. And I was like, oh, my God. And I got really emotional because I've never received like an edible arrangement before. And it's like so cool to me to receive one so I got very excited it also had um pineapple in it that spelled out boo like a bee pineapple it's so cute anyway so that was super nice and fun and awesome and then we did our little um our October mail video got a lot of fun gifties yes daroonies and um Eva was dressed as a cat all day by the way yeah she texted me yesterday by the way and asked like in advance do you mind if i dress up as a cat and i was like a thousand percent

do i mind i was like i would mind if you didn't yeah yeah so it's really the only rule thank you for your contribution today eva um i should have dressed as my cat version my like much less of a cat version would be the cat outfit you've been wearing for the last two episodes? The pajamas? You should have made it the triple triple threat. Triple threat pajamas. But I didn't know where we were going so I was like let's hold on them. Yeah I didn't really know where we were going either because apparently it's in a mall and so I kept telling Christine I was like I don't really know what's going on

but we're going to a mall. I was like it's through the Dick's Sporting Goods. I was like happy anniversary I'm taking you to Dick's. What a mystery. Buy me a new fly fishing rod yes anyway okay so we made it through it's been an awesome day and an awesome halloween week we're still by the way recording this super in advance because we're traveling for our live shows but we wanted to bang them out before we left bang them out bang them on bang them out

bang them all over the place keep on banging keep on banging that's what i always say uh oh god i'm stuck on this cobweb i am too oh god we're never leaving um so yeah i am so happy and it's been such a perfect day thank you for making it so special you're welcome and thank you for being my friend for two whole years two whole years wow we've come a long way we have or have we i don't know well that means we're doing the same fucking thing we did two years ago. I guess so. But that also means in five months will be our two year with the podcast. Whoa.

Oh, yeah. Right. Our two year anniversary, February, February 9th, 11th, 11th, I believe. Somewhere in there. Mid Feb. I was going to say 14th. And Aquarius. That's Cupid's birthday.

Is our podcast in Aquarius? Yes. Wow. Interesting. Good to say 14th. And Aquarius. No, that's Cupid's birthday. Is our podcast on Aquarius? Yes. Wow. Wow. Interesting. Good to know about that. Makes sense, though. It does make sense.

For two Gemini's to form an Aquarius podcast. I mean, no wonder we vibe so well. Yes. With the podcast. Yeah. You know. It's just very conflict-free a little bit every now and then. We have a little spat, but.

I mean, she can be a real bitch, but it's fine. It's us we get her free a little bit every now and then we have a little spat but i mean she can be a real bitch but it's fine it's okay it's okay in the best we mean that people love her but it's okay we make it super easy going she's always there for you at the end of the day right anyway anyway maybe on our anniversary we'll do a horoscope of the podcast oh fun an aquarius horoscope for our podcast i I'm down. I'm so fucking down. Okay, good. Great. On board. All right. So why do you drink? Or I guess just for the friendiversary in general? Yeah.

And also we forgot to mention that the last episode came out the day before Gio's birthday. So now I feel kind of bad I didn't mention it. But happy belated birthday to my baby boy who just turned three last week. Well, when they're listening to this. On November 5th. November 5th. Exactly. Last week. And he is a good boy. boy and he's not really but he's my good boy and he's such a good boy turned three and he only ate three socks today so he's so happy and so what a sweet bear oh i love

him so happy birthday geo we love you very much i love you so much funko and loves you okay let's should we honor this episode for geo yeah happy birthday geo like fuck our friendiversary he doesn't know well it's both it's a special day it's a double special day okay geo had a fun day too because you were here and we got all sorts of treats everyone was shouting and i think he just thrived off it geo actually now that he's three and a man yes instead of a boy puppy right he's 21 he can drink now well he also apparently now knows how to howl as of today yes he learned how to howl he hit puberty today he made a sound that none of us have heard come out of him we were like are you okay wild we were like what's going on in there he was really excited

about something everything he was trying to tell us we also received four pairs of socks in the mail today so he really hit the jackpot he yeah he knew he knew what today was he knew what was going on all right well i guess i guess that's that on that then we're right on that baby blazing right through blazing blaze trail blazing okay okay so i'm just forcing you to delete whatever we just said because and point out something that i keep mentioning to say or meaning to say so thank you for bringing it up but there is an announcement that i have my official hashtag for my honeymoon because it never fucking ends over here, guys.

Because my life is a hashtag forever. Because I'm the wife. I'm the wife and I need a hashtag. Because that is... I refuse to apologize for that. So the wedding was Christine gets blazed and the honeymoon is... Christine gets belized. I cannot handle this.

Come on! Okay, to be fair, Marilyn came up with it. But I stole it and I love it. I mean... It's very clever. It's very clever. to be fair, Marilyn came up with it. But I stole it, and I love it. I mean... It's very clever. It's very clever. And I really want to hate it. And I will say, as much as I was just, like, bullshitting, like, I need a hashtag.

Like, truly, I did not need a hashtag. But then she said that, and I was like, I mean, it's so clever. You're like, okay, now I need a hashtag. I guess I have one, whether I like it or not. Meanwhile, on the other side of the world, I will be at Christine's house enjoying my VIP tickets to the last Snuggle Fest of 2018. Oh, right. And I'm extra for having a hashtag.

The last hoorah. So my hashtag will be GeoGetSpooned. GeoGetSpooned 2018. Yay! Precious, precious, precious. All right. And since you're not going to be home

for a whole week, we're going to eat so many bad foods. I think the honeymoon is literally this week that this comes out. Right? Yeah, so you'll be on a honeymoon and I be on my puppy moon oh my god it's gonna be precious i don't know math maybe it's wrong but oh well at some point you'll see it on instagram i wanted to talk about it so thank you m for reminding me oh all right okay let's do the the

death thing the death thing oh we went from like that's what my parents call this podcast remember when my mom called it the ghost story and murder situation show and i was like yeah wow i remember when my mom called it a tv show and she's like i can't see it yeah i remember both of our moms saying to us we can't get the video to play and we were like oh dear my mom still calls it a blog half the time oh yeah someone called it a video blog and i was like you're adding a lot of adjectives to something that you don't really know right right murder and ghost situation show oh also i did want to i saved this for you but um and it took a lot in me to not say this out loud when we were all talking about dreams earlier but i've had multiple dreams recently where you call yourself the broad of broadcast okay i've added another hashtag to my life so i'm thinking

i'm thinking i didn't dream that your subconscious is so clever listen i know where it comes from and it's all the way into the folds of my brain but i'm thinking like we should use it if i'm thinking if i'm dreaming it multiple times there's no reason for it to not be on a shirt the universe is like hello bring this to like knock knock knock wake up broad of broadcast hello fresh you broads there it is i'm into it broad of broad holy crap you're welcome i'm gonna say this at the end are you ready be quiet m this is my moment i'm gonna say this at the end hold on i have to think about it first oh my god i'm gonna say i'm gonna say signing off, you're brought to broadcast.

Stay spooky. No, that's Jim Harrell saying that. I wish everyone just saw the finger guns that got pointed at me, because that was disgusting. Okay, hold on. I got a peace sign. Oh, I got it. I got a finger gun, and I got a click of the gun. I got it, though.

I got it for real this time. This is very serious. Right. Signing off, the broad of broadcast stay thirsty friends there it is it's so good well you're welcome signing off like xoxo gossip girl but signing off you know oh no i hear it xoxo broad of broadcast it's wow did you really come up with that in a dream yeah amazing multiple dreams amazing because i think i it probably stemmed from i'm the bride and i've just been here i'm

the bride i thought you were broadcast i thought you were gonna say the i'm the bride thing again and i was like yeah we've moved on unfortunately no we've moved on to a whole other we've moved up okay yeah i've moved up i forgot it was a promotion of sorts it is in the ranks in your subconscious apparently well in my hell and thank you also thank you for that in your nightmares right yeah yeah anyway so now that we've just spiraled down that wormhole um i'm glad that you like just knew i knew what you needed and i felt bad because i didn't give you a full three presents between the fun box and the edible arrangements. So here's your third present.

Your new name. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Broad Broadcast. Woohoo! We're both a little gassy today. Oh my gosh, Robert Durst-y of us. It's that edible arrangement. Yeah, Emma was like, yeah, keep having this burp feeling.

And Eva's like, oh yeah, Robert Durst is that. And we're like, oh good. That's what we've become good to know all right so um moving on I suppose stay thirsty okay I'm sorry I'm done oh my god no it's so bad no that was about it impressive that one took me back I think it's a pity thumbs up for me oh maybe Eva's like no I, no, I'm, I was just like, woohoo. It came out of my mouth before I could stop it. That's usually how genius happens.

That's the broad of broadcast for you. You know me. And we became the broad and the Mr. Broad. I don't know what, what would I be? The broad, maybe I'm the... Oh. The broad. The lord. Nope. The lord of broadcast.

Wow, can you imagine? That's just the douchiest thing I've ever heard. You just need a pocket square and then you'll be good. Perfect. Okay. Anyway, you've been the broad of broadcast in my heart for two years now. Right down to the day. Most precious thing I've ever heard.

All right. I'm honored. Well, then I guess this is for you and Gio our friendiversary wow what a day all right here it goes let's go this is the story of rose hall in jamaica in jamaica or in jamaica i was like and the story of jamaica okay this is the story of jamaica and while i have time i'm gonna sprinkle in the story okay so in jamaica montego bay there is a house called the rose hall oh no take it away duke largo montego you nailed it I just want to get to that one. Down in Kokomo. We'll get there fast and then we'll take it slow.

Poor Eva probably had dinner plans and we're like, nope, you're staying here for eight hours. Oh, we're laughing and Eva's like internally screaming. I think I just ate so much candy. Like I'm not even drunk. I should be because I think maybe that'll tamper me down a little bit but i kind of want you to get a real real wild today though on our friendiversary listen today when we went to lunch uh okay fair okay i take it back today when we went to lunch christine was like i'll just have a water and i was like christine it's our friendiversary and i'm driving and she was like i'll have a blue moon and then the large

please yeah they were like 16 or 22 and at first she was like 16 and then i was like christine's friendiversary and she's like okay 22 twist my arm why don't you and 22 is my lucky number so i didn't even think about i was very excited for you to get the 22 and eva got the 22 as well yeah because peer pressure we stared at her until she finally caved right i had iced tea anyway so the rose hall it is an 18th century plantation manor house in Montego Bay. It was the home of Jamaica's most famous ghost. Is the home of Jamaica's most famous ghost? The White Witch of Rose Hall.

Oh, that sounds spooky. And locals call it the Great House. It was also nicknamed the Calendar House. Because, why you ask? nicknamed the calendar house because why you ask it originally had 365 windows 52 doors and 12 bedrooms i think you meant like marie calendar of like pies pie fame no that's my house oh that's my freezer that's house of pies actually um um wow that's very weird did they do that on purpose do you don't know okay that's like i mean they must have because that's very specific another fun number also had over 2 000 slaves oh yikes it's gonna be one of those stories no thank you um fun facts before we get into the not so fun facts it has been

featured on the 19th season finale of america's next top model really i'm down with i thought you could say american horror story and we went a totally different way oh that's i'd like to keep you on your toes sure also it has been featured on ghost hunters international and scariest places on earth which i have not watched scariest places on earth in a long time but i used to watch it yeah i used to watch it and it used to freak me the fuck out because of that creepy ass voice it is the sped up like creepy like it's like it's an old ass like slow molasses southern sound but high pitch no that's okay that show used to scare me so badly and it was just that fucking voice yes because it'd be like exactly if you look to your left like she will appear at your bed and well she would also

like the like the writers clearly like just picked like the creepiest words for that voice to say too but so here's the thing i watched scariest places on earth last night and i watch it at 3 a.m witching hour so i really just wanted to die so i went to um i went on youtube and found scariest places on earth and i remember looking at it and i was like how do i remember this like why does this show sound familiar and i don't watch it and then the voice came back and like like flashbacks of my childhood and like me just like rocking in a corner truly it's just the creepiest fucking sound and like now i'm like in my mid-20s and i'm still terrified of this voice

i have chills just thinking about the fucking voice do you know what we're talking about okay okay it's so absurd because like all those other shows are like oh interesting and like kind of cheesy and like bagel bitesy of like oh you know the oh a jump a scare this one for whatever fucking reason and you'd watch it in the dark and i'd always watch at home alone and no thank you in my mom's haunted ass house here i'm playing a part of it just for eva okay we just played a clip for you then she's like no no i don't like that um which i don't either but i think what i'm also realizing why it was so creepy is that it would always read like historical shit like just like terrible things about why this place is haunted like 45 people were hanged in the gallon you're like oh this is upsetting information read by a voice it sounds like a doll just grew a voice box it sounds yeah it sounds

like a doll and a demon and an alien like developed a baby yeah exactly actually like the baby was just a voice box and it was just all of them combined it was just super like you get a spirit box and like a fucking doll is talking to you like that's what it sounds like it just sounds eerie super eerie it's like not not a human voice it's uncomfortable very uncomfortable about uncomfortable topics anyway Anyway, so okay. Super distressing. So good for you to do the research on that because that is rough. I had to watch 45 minutes of that.

Nope. I was like over it. So anyway, long story short. I'm glad we were both traumatized by that because I don't think I've ever, I used to try to describe that to people and they were like, I don't know what you're talking about. It was so creepy. Creepy. It's like it had the, it has the voice that i imagine if spirits if bad spirits could talk to

me that would be the voice like whisper in your ear yeah just like like demonic so anyway it's been featured on tv everyone who's never watched this is like literally what everyone's youtubing it frantically right now um so rose hall is one of the 15 buildings remaining out of over 700 oh no that were once homes of jamaica's wealthy plantation owners great so there of over 700. Oh, no. That were once homes of Jamaica's wealthy plantation owners. Great. So there's over 700. There's only 15 left, and it's one of them. The rest of the 700 plus houses were burned to the ground by slaves during the Great Jamaican Slave Revolt of 1831.

So just a fun fact about that. Fun, indeed. Fun. That is one way to put it. That is just the most fun I've ever had. So in 1746, and some of this history, like I kind of didn't understand why it mattered and if I should keep it in, but at the end, it will make more sense if I just throw it in here. Okay. There's a lot of history and I kind of wanted to not put this in, but it just helps later. So in 1746, there

was a man named Henry who was engaged to Rosa Kelly, and she was the daughter of Irish immigrants living in Jamaica. And he bought land for them, and they got married, but Henry died a few months later. So Rosa ended up marrying another man, George Ash, and he built a mansion for Rosa and named it Rose Hall. And a lot of people say, oh, they obviously George named the mansion that he built after his wife Rosa. But other people say that he could have named it after the Rose family that he was like business partners with. Oh, so Rose. Yeah.

There's a different name, I guess. Yeah. It wasn't. It's not Rosa Hill. You know, or Hall or Hall. Yeah. Rosa Hall. Thank you for knowing my story. It's also not Rosa Hill. I mean, you're right Or Hall. Yeah, Rosa Hall. Thank you for knowing my story better.

It's also not Rosa Hill. I mean, you're right. Yeah. I mean, I just wanted to test you. Got an A. Unlike my listening comprehension. Right. So George ended up dying right after the construction was completed.

A year later, Rosa married another man named Norwood. Yep. I let that wait for a second um it was an unhappy marriage and he spent all of her money and then died oh so okay norwood wasn't the greatest guy it's kind of an asshole with the lame name i know then rosa married john palmer and they were happily married until both of them died seven years later or one of them died and then seven years later the other one died but they okay they were happily married both rosa too rosa died in 1790 and then john palmer died seven years oh got it got it got it um before john died he actually had a statue commissioned of rosa after

her death damn so like they were like really like in love and also she just like people were making shit for her left and right yeah i would not make a statue for you after you died because like you would be the one who would appreciate the most you're not even here you'd want to like snapchat my reaction yeah exactly right yeah yeah you get it i get it um so john and rosa had no children together and when both of them died the rose hall ended up going to john's sons but neither of them lived near the house and they didn't have children to pass it on to. So they didn't want it. And the house got passed on to Palmer's grand nephew. Okay. So weirdly, it was John Palmer married Rosa and his grand nephew's name was John Rose

Palmer. Oh, okay. Very weird. So John Rose Palmer now has the estate in 1818. Cool. So John Rose Palmer moved to Jamaica and took charge of Rose Hall, and he married Annie Patterson. And Annie married him, so she became Annie Palmer, a.k.a. the White Witch. Uh-oh.

There she is. There she is. We were wondering where she'd show up, and we found her. There she is. So Annie was the daughter of an english mother and an irish father and when she was 10 they moved to haiti and annie learned voodoo from her haitian nanny i mean that's that's where it's going to start her parents very quickly died of yellow fever right when they got right when they moved to haiti oh no and annie was left to be raised by the nanny so she learned more and

more voodoo and became a voodoo priestess which is like really quite a ranking apparently that sounds like it um at 18 the nanny died and nanny moved to jamaica and that's where she found john palmer and married him and moved into the rose hall got it she apparently just wanted him for his money and uh after the wedding she started sleeping with her slaves oh my i have a hunch they did not want to sleep with her back by the way just so we all know okay to be clear i don't think it was like he whatever the male version of a mistress is i don't think he willingly wanted to i think he was a slave and had to i see i mean yes i imagine as a slave you kind of had to do whatever right but it wasn't like they were cheating like in love or something right right it wasn't an affair oh got it yeah i mean you know the male version of mistress is master which

does not equate when you're when it's a slave yeah it's like just very i mean it doesn't equate even in a right extramarital affair it's like but it's just the irony of that sounds so much more like right right uh degrading than like master master right right right so um sorry i feel like i'm like gonna sneeze and i'm not you know my stepmom the one who threw the glass she always writes um when she would you had more stepmoms than that well i'm explaining to everyone else oh got it this is the one who threw the glass she would uh whenever she addresses stuff to us like at my mom's house she would write mistress christine and master alexander what the hell i'm telling you she's weird dude that's not like a german thing that's just a normal she's like it's

family it's tradition it's family it's tradition oh my gosh okay well i'm gonna start sending you mail with mistress or i guess now what's what's the married mistress madam i think maid no like like you know you're a no maid matron matron oh you're a matron i know that's why i feel old all right i don't know guys good to know um it's tradition just don't worry about it you wouldn't understand yeah yeah she would or she would write like yeah like master alexander she i was like what the fuck with that he's like are you sure it wasn't like mistress living doll i posted a photo on instagram and everyone's like oh what a beautiful living doll and i'm like ellen has instagram don't write that so uh so she was sleeping with her slaves

and john caught her and beat her with her writing crop fuck and basically beat her with a writing crop in front of everyone including the slaves and so she felt embarrassed that she was getting you know beaten in front of her slaves and so the next day john happened to just be dead oh my god it is believed that annie killed him by poisoning his coffee holy shit with john dead rose hall went immediately to annie and she continued sleeping with the slaves um but kind of did a black widow move where after she would sleep with them she would kill them so that so nobody would talk there wouldn't be like a trail of like right you would just just a trail of dead people she would just honestly pick one oh my god sleep with them

and people would just see the slave just go into the house and never come back out if you get the pattern and then she's like okay you're next and you're like yeah oh yeah holy shit this is scary okay so she just started sleeping with them and then killing them before word would get out right right right right and she also just started killing them when she was bored too oh my god um i knew we were going here but i just wasn't ready for it it's nowhere as bad at what the hell was that what i feel like my voice just cracked oh am i going through puberty my god renata's calling it's like she knows she's like i hear something fucked up going on talking about ellen um so uh oh yeah it's not as bad as the laurie mansion oh yeah i mean to be fair nothing in the

entire world is as bad i mean it's bad but it's not as bad i feel like it's also quicker just it's like ripping off a man compared to that story okay okay okay so she continued to sleep with the slaves and then kill them or sometimes when she was bored she would just kill them um she would torture other slaves she would set up booby traps around her are you fucking kidding around the property in case they tried to escape slaves working in the kitchen were required to whistle so that she knew that they weren't eating any of the food and if they were caught not whistling she would cut off their heads heads for potentially stealing food that was not theirs it was very much a one strike you're out this is sick yeah she if they lied to her she would cut out their tongues oh god she would

spit on them for fun and i imagine she decided when they lied it wasn't like right if they looked at her wrong i'm sure you're a liar um she spit on them for fun she had a cell that was almost 20 feet below the ground that she would just throw them into. Okay. And then they would, there was no medical attention or water or anything. Um, they would just die of heat and starvation. So basically when she just decided you were done, she would literally just like throw you in like a human trash can. Okay.

Um, okay. This is just the worst sentence and we're just gonna rip it off like a band-aid okay great one servant who happened to be a little girl no fucking hell tried to poison her with tried to poison her milk when she was forced to go feed her tried to poison the milk and when the White Witch found out, she beheaded her and made the other servants take turns walking out to the water and back, carrying a basket on their head with the little girl's head in the basket.

And that's the worst it gets. Oh, wait, there's one more bullet. When the slaves would have babies. Oh, no, oh, no, Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. She would make them tie their babies to ants' nests. No.

Oh, God, Em. So the ants would bite them to death so then Annie could collect their skulls for rituals. Okay, that's... That's it. That's the worst. That's the worst. That's the worst. That's the worst thing you've said. That's all we...

Yeah, that's literally the worst thing anyone has said ever, besides the brain stirring from LaLaurie. But this is... And there's nothing worse than brain stirring. Nothing. But this is definitely up there. So the slaves obviously took to calling her the White Witch of Rose Hall. And...

That's it? I would call her way worse than that. I'm sure it was the White Bitch, but... Yeah, yeah. You know. The censor. If they they said that they'd have to get their tongues cut out right so so annie married two more times i don't know who she found that was attracted to her twice well it sounds like she just makes people do what she wants so right and also at this at this time in the 1800s having her own plantation of 2 000 plus slaves in a massive manner right by herself i mean

and also she just happened to inherit it draw but she's like the one of the most influential woman in jamaica right right right right she's a big shot so um she married two more times and both of those husbands happened to just mysteriously get murdered as well oh and what a mister mysterious indeed um the first of the two husbands so husband number two in the lineup, he was stabbed in the chest while he was sleeping multiple times. Stabbed multiple times. Mysterious. I mean, I guess it's not very mysterious, but some people claim that it didn't happen,

but it's like, okay. Okay, cool. Wink, wink. Um, okay. So they, he was stabbed in the chest multiple times while he was sleeping and to make sure he was really dead. She poured boiling hot oil into his ears. Ugh, what? In his ears?

Why in his, okay, you could pour that on his fucking foot and he'd probably wake up if he was not really dead. I guess to get into his brain. Oh, so she wanted to like, kill, kill, kill him. Kill, kill, kill him. Oh, okay, I thought it was just to test if he would wake up. I mean, that's what I think too, but I imagine there's's like a there's like a second use to it element right right if he is gonna wake up he won't wake up for much longer after i pour this into his brain okay got

it husband number two in this particular bullet aka the actual third one in the lineup because she was previously married and then the stabbed guy and then this guy sure he was strangled with the help of one of her slaves that she was sleeping with oh no honestly if that woman was like owned me and like could possibly kill me i don't know what i would do to protect myself either i'm sure that i mean what can you do someone tells you yeah like oh i'll kill you or your family if you don't do this i mean right and also like if he, like, if he figured out that all the, like, other people she was sleeping with were getting killed and he probably was like, oh, I'll do whatever you want so you won't kill me. Right.

Right. Right. After sleeping with me. Right. So his name was Taku. Mm-hmm. And that was the slave that she was sleeping with that killed her husband. Okay.

So Taku and her had quite a relationship and eventually she ended up falling for a man named robert rutherford but he was actually in love with taku's granddaughter so she's sleeping with one guy but fell for another guy who's in love with the granddaughter of the guy she's actually sleeping with this is the most dramatic this is like fredericksburg virginia most dramatic love triangle of all time so in another version of the story it was actually taku's son-in-law and in other stories it was his niece but it was his relative somewhere oh so but there could have been like an lgbt twist is that what you're saying um he could have fallen for the nephew or the i don't think that was the case i i thought you said it was a nephew no you're right i i don't

i think like because i didn't find actual like stories i just heard in like either a video or another article like there were different variations where like somehow it was a son not a niece i don't know if it was lgbt or maybe like just hang on a second okay it might make more sense i see okay so basically she wanted to get rid of the granddaughter so that Robert wouldn't like the granddaughter so that she could be with Robert. Yeah, he won't like her anymore because she's dead. Right. What the fuck?

So to get rid of the granddaughter, Annie cast a voodoo spell on the granddaughter where a ghost would come visit her and cause her to wither and die. Good. That old trick. Yeah. The one I keep in my pocket all the time yes so taku found out about the curse and his granddaughter and the storyline kind of changes in like oh it might have been his niece or it might have been his son-in-law so like he wanted

retaliation because it was just a relative so right i don't know if robert would have been interested in oh so in the son-in-law the story might just have been that she cast a spell on someone related to this guy as opposed to like exactly he it was the love interest somehow someone taku was related to was affected negatively by her okay got it in different variations of the story but the most common one is robert like the granddaughter of taku okay got it got it got so he found out that she killed his granddaughter slash nephew slash son-in-law and strangled her to death oh so she died she dies oh and then Taku strangled her the granddaughter did die and when Taku found out about it he

strangled Annie um so this this is where different variations because this is um well but how do you even if you're like oh i killed her with a ghost right right you could literally be like i didn't do that well he strangled her and he wasn't done no i mean it but if like oh you killed my granddaughter but it's like she could have been like oh right right right ghost i didn't have anything to do with her mysteriously withering away i see it's interesting she probably took i guess she probably took credit for it or it was like i did that probably anyway so her like curse worked is what we're saying somehow her curse worked and the granddaughter died we're almost out of wine by the way oh we are out of wine yeah out of the bottle at least i'll get some after your story um so yeah so taku then strangled annie and retaliation the story kind of varies here but the most common one is that the slaves took the body and buried it in concrete and burned all of

her possessions including portraits of her so that there was no image of her that her soul could come back as whoa that is spooky um another version which is actually the version that the tour people say is that the slaves refused to touch her and neighbors actually had to come over and put her body in the grave. She was that cursed. She was that cursed and they were that terrified of her. I don't fucking blame her. She sounds pretty fucking cursed to me. So the story that you would hear at the actual house on a Tor is that the slaves did not touch her.

Okay, got it. But the slaves did once she was buried in a concrete tomb. They then did a ritual um that would make sure that her spirit could not escape its grave and apparently the ritual was performed incorrectly aka the haunting oh no also during who i am oh no yeah the scariest place on earth thing so during the slave rebellion rebellion that burnt down like multiple, like hundreds and hundreds of the houses. Right.

That house was intentionally not burnt down even by the slaves then because they thought they were so afraid of the spirits that could be there and they were afraid if they burnt it down, Annie's spirit would be released from the property. Yeah. So they intentionally left that one up. Holy shit. I wonder if they did that for the other 14. Oh. Because there's 15 left. Right, right. They didn't all go. spirit would be released from the property yeah so they intentionally left that one up holy i wonder if they did that for the other 14 because there's 15 left right right i wonder if the other

wow so now you have 14 more stories to cover right so others tried moving in uh to the house after after she died but they always either died early mysteriously oh god or they moved away so they just like didn't stay for long right and the house ended up being abandoned for over 130 years damn and it looked like trash by the time someone showed up and wanted to rash to rash period that's what we always say and the 1960s former miss usa michelle rollins bought the property and had it renovated. Sorry, I wasn't mentally prepared for that. My brain.

I read it, too, in my notes. And I was like, did I say that right? I felt like there was like I missed something. Definitely a lag. I had to go back and catch what you were saying. You're like, oh, right now, Miss USA. Got it. Right.

Let me hopscotch all the way back. So former Miss USA, Michelle Rollins in the 1960s bought the property after it being you know abandoned for 130 years right and had it renovated and it now currently is open for tours and events are held there like big conferences and weddings and all that and christine gets believe now we got it rose hauled there it is um but christine would want to visit this part in the house there is a bar now named annie's pub oh that's cute wait no she's the evil yeah she's the evil i like that reaction it's not cute i just think the name annie is so precious and then she fucking ruined it well that at that bar they specialize in selling one specific drink called witch's brew which is uh jamaican rum and pineapple

juice all right all right i'll take it apparently people who go on the tour get complimentary witches brew let's go nah um an 18th okay that was sorry water break elevator music we would use that in ages i even sent it to you in time to use and then ever since then we never use use it again. I like elevator music. It's so fun. It's like... Maybe like next time I do a story, like just to build suspense, I'll be like, and then elevator music. Okay. The bar has rum, which is...

It has rum. Okay, got it. So in 1868, an editor actually published a book containing the legend of Rosa Palmer as the White Witch. And Rosa Palmer is the woman that... The first woman. The very first woman who was like Irish and English and she got married into the family and she ended up... And she had that statue and everything. Yes, exactly.

And she was the woman that was there when the building was constructed right but see okay so so what i'm getting to is in 1868 an editor published a booklet containing the legend of the white witch with rosa palmer originally as the witch got it in 1911 a book on the history of saint james the area that the house was in was published and retold the story of the white witch with annie as the actual character not rose it's like palmer a clap back of like don't at me but like he just added him at like right now this was the right way right right got it got it so the very first like writings of this where i had back then you had to wait like 20 years to like respond not even it was like 40 oh oh 40 oh my god okay um that's interesting though okay and then in 1929

there was a book called the white witch of rose hall and um basically these three authors wrote these books based on folklore okay so what i'm saying is no one knows if the rose hall white witch is actually real oh and why do you always do this i always say it at the end because i feel like people are gonna lose interest in the beginning why do you even say it i just tease you i guess you shouldn't even say it you should just be like and that's that i should it is true fact it is in a textbook somewhere it is in three books somewhere there so apparently this is a real story and that i have a whole section where i'm going to yeah no worries debunk the things that need to be i'm not trying to hate on this so it's just you're playing games with my heart that's all i

know so the whole white witch story of everything i said um in the 1860s was the first book about the white witch that everyone had been hearing about and all these legends throughout town and the original person that the white witch was was rosa palmer which actually provides credibility because she was the only one that based on jamaican archives and jamaican records of all their citizens rosa palmer was the one who had multiple husbands and so for them to say like oh the white witch killed all these husbands between her and annie she was the only one that had multiple husbands so they originally thought that she was okay okay so they were ascribing it to like facts like actual facts okay got it got it then someone used annie's character as the central figure because she was

supposedly really awful to slaves right like they'd heard right so then they were like no annie might be it then in 1929 there was another book called the white witch of rose hall where it like basically solidified that annie was the one and so now current folklore says annie is for sure the white witch not rosa got it got it got it but excuse me christ so god it's stay thirsty i can't i can't so the assistant government archivist of 1965 um he did that's me very specific he had uh he researched who annie patterson was and if she was truly the white witch so what a cool job and actual jamaican records he found that annie marie patterson or annie mary patterson sorry was a jamaican with sc Scottish ancestry. So not actually someone who then, not someone who moved to Haiti later.

Or Jamaica. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, so she was born there, you're saying. She's native there. She was a Jamaican with Scottish ancestry. And sorry, I spoke too soon. She was not ever raised in Haiti. Oh, I see, I see.

Based on the folklore where she like moved there at 10 and then was raised by this Haitian nanny to learn voodoo. Right, right, right. Apparently she never went to Haiti. She never had a nanny. She never learned any magic. And she was like in a social class that would have laughed at magic. Interesting.

Also, the husband that she married on record is the only husband she ever had. They only lived in Rose Hall for a short period of time and neither of them died there. Really? This is what, this is what archives say, but like my heart says the ghost story is true. They also said that Annie did not kill her husband. She did not kill anybody. John died of natural causes and Annie sold Rose Hall before she ever died because when her husband died, she had a lot of debt and couldn't pay off the house.

Okay. Apparently when they did live there, the house only had one or two slaves. And Annie, apparently, by documents, by different records, says that she died 15 years after she was supposedly murdered. And she left everything to her goddaughter, Geolia. Geo? Geo-lia. Yeah. Cool.

That's what you're going to do someday. Leave everything to Geo. Got it. And it also says that she never remarried, had any kids, and the tomb outside is not hers. Really? So, like, it's everything. Based on actual, like, archives, that whole story is not right. Okay.

And so then a lot of people go back to the story of, like, oh, well, maybe it's Rosa, not Annie, because she had a lot of husbands. And so maybe and she did die there and she did yeah yeah and so a lot no one can tell who it might have been but if you're in jamaica like everyone just knows it is annie palmer okay and regardless of what archives say so that's the story right it's the story but like in jamaica everyone believes it right right right yeah like absolutely that place is the most haunted place on earth by annie um i don't know if you're going to mention this but like do we know then if the archive says that's not her tomb then whose tomb it is nope i don't know okay um so basically it's like do you want to go off of evidence like a smart

person or do you want to go off of your ghostly gut which i'm going to do it's like or like what everyone i mean you know everyone's collective cultural story you know culturally she exists regardless of there being no right right right or being completely different to be honest like you could argue that on any story we tell so sure i mean maybe not the murders but your stories all my stories um so anyway onto the ghost things obviously i watch ghost adventures i I like you saying then look down. I have a little shame to it. Zach Bagelbites made some weird comments.

Shocker of the century. So we heard about how Annie would sleep with her slaves. And he made two different suggestive comments about sleeping with Annie while he was in the house. He was like, oh, I need to prepare for tonight. Or like, oh, maybe she'll want to... Oh, I'm sorry. The exact words were, maybe if she... He said, apparently in the stories,

she would chitty-chitty-bang-bang with the slaves and then kill them in the morning. And he said, if her and I were to shitty, shitty, bang, bang, I'm going to be gone by morning.

So I'll make it out alive. And then the, the fucking tour guide was like, do you think you're good at that? And then he said, and then he said, I think so. Of course he thinks so.

Of course he thinks so. So anyway, that was the most Zach moment of the whole thing. Get me out of here right now. Get me out of my skin. Onto my favorite little section of our show, the Zack attacks. I can't. No words.

No fucking words. So he actually brought one of the employees onto the investigation with him because apparently that employee has been there for like 15 years and was like, this place is nothing haunting yep that's what they said nothing hot and and um he's like this place is really haunted like i don't even want to be in here yeah okay and so zach was like well we're gonna take you on the investigation with us then so they put the employee in the middle of the room and placed a bunch of REM pods around him. So REM pods are basically like, like cake cups.

Yep. Sounds like it. If we're being as simple as possible, it's basically an EMF reader, but instead of lights, it's sound. So you'll put them around. And then if you ask a question,

instead of a light going from red to green, it'll just make a bell sound. Oh, so it's not like a spirit box, like different sounds. It's like, right. It'll signifies with one sound instead of a light going up you just hear like like which is like kind of scarier it's more jarring than the lights yeah yeah okay got it um

but so they put a bunch of rem pods around him and asked a bunch of questions it actually answered very intelligently and was answering very quickly too it It was answering like, I think I wrote it down. Oh, in response to, are the stories true? They got a big response. They got a response to, do you like being here? Do you not like being here? Like, they were able to have a little mini conversation with it. Right. They also apparently kind of caught some very, very soft core porn with um the because apparently

if this is true chitty chitty bang some chitty bang bang maybe um because if this is true it appears that the white witch was attracted to the employee oh boy and for no reason he just started he was still standing there he like started like kind of like huffing and puffing and like sweating profusely and on the uh digital recorder they caught a woman going oh my goodness they heard a woman go oh my goodness in response to the employee being there okay wait that Wait, that's it? That's the porn? That's the, like I said, soft, soft, soft, soft, soft core porn. Okay, so like in the show they were like, this is what this is. But like.

They basically said like, because he also, to be fair, he did look a little dazed. He looked a little different. But like. Well, was he like, well, I was having sex in my head? Like, I don't understand. He said that he. Was he aroused? I think he, I think he said he felt aroused. It was having sex in my head. Like, I don't understand. He said that he was he aroused. I think he I think he said he felt aroused. It was also 3 a.m. when I watched this.

Oh, I was like in the show. No, but he he definitely was staying there. And he was like, I don't know why. Like, it was like physiologically he was like reacting to it. You know how I feel about this. I know how you feel about it. But I don't think that was porn. But that's just me.

I mean, I didn't I don't think anyone was aroused watching it. So that's for sure. Listen, if we can walk away knowing that I'm happy. Yeah, happy. Yeah. I mean, maybe. Nope. I'm just going to move on.

Oh, my goodness. Let's drop it and move on. So Aaron was in a room by himself also. And he heard women screaming in his ears while he was trying to sleep and they also caught that on the digital recorder oh my and um they didn't really seem to get too much like that was pretty much all they got on the show but other stories um from people that have visited have said that they see a woman in green velvet riding her horse. And they've also seen shadow figures, unexplained noises, screams, voices. They see bloodstains, hear footsteps, and hear music and babies crying.

Ooh. The fact that they see her in green velvet is, like, so specific. It's really creepy. And Annie is seen on the balcony a lot. But apparently that used to be her favorite place to stand and watch slaves get flogged oh god oh god um so one investigator says that she also at one point the medium was standing near the balcony that she used to stand at and one of the mediums was possessed by annie for a short period of time during the investigation one of the few original pieces in the house is the mirror

in annie's bedroom and people say when they that's the thing they left there no and people say when they look into it they see people running behind them oh fuck um oh god they also say that they hear screaming in their heads uh women there's oh there's a they also see a woman dressed in all white on the stairs outside and inside of the great house so they think it might be her in different outfits like she's doing costume changes um she would and then you can also hear running footsteps coming towards you in various rooms that stop at the door nope um the custodian that was actually on Ghost Adventures was also on Scariest Places on Earth. And he hears footsteps that follow him into every room when he's cleaning. And he says he never stays past six because that's when the real ghosts come out.

Good. When he's closing the windows and doors, he says he begins to feel people staring at him. And there was one family that tried to move in temporarily. And brought their maid with them and their maid was standing near the balcony and they heard her from upstairs screaming leave me alone oh my and when they found her she had fallen from the balcony and died of a broken neck what yeah holy shit um but it sounded like there was like a fight upstairs so they assume like something pushed i mean if you're saying you're not just yelling you're saying leave me alone right like addressed in another person um holy shit a psychic went there one time and she said

that the bar downstairs used to be a dungeon and it actually ends up being the hole that she would throw people in the bar was that fucking hole yeah oh no and she says she could feel and hear screams of hundreds of spirits trapped in the room she could see them handcuffed and injured and infected and left to die with no food or water and then she saw a bear trap and said that lots of people's legs had been cut off with it oh god oh god oh god can you imagine just like how nightmarish that must be to like have that assaulting your ears when you're like oh yeah walk in there oh god oh god the psychic also said that the white witch still guards the house to this day and won't free the slave souls no so they still can't find the light and they're still afraid then help them and in annie's bedroom she like when she went into annie's bedroom she could

smell death and couldn't breathe she said she she needed to leave, and she said she couldn't take one night there if they paid her. Really? One time, someone did stay the night. This was back when they allowed people to stay overnight. And he was making tea, and he put out his teacup, and then he heard this, like, blood-curdling scream from the other side of the room. So he ran over to see what it was, and when he back all of his like his teacup and his spoon and sugar and everything were just gone oh so something distracted him and then took it away and hit it ew one couple stayed there um actually like fought to stay in annie's actual bedroom where she like

slept with these slaves wrong with you she killed her husband and all that what is wrong with you um and they ended up running out in the middle of the night they couldn't handle it well there you go one woman who did stay the night in 1996 found a picture that she had taken uh later on she was looking at the pictures and she saw that there was like a large humanoid figured white mist laying from the pillows on one end from the pillows all the way hung over to the foot of the bed on the other side and she hadn't actually seen that in the room at all when she took the picture it just happened to be there later in film finally johnny cash all finale always it's quite a roller coaster today um so johnny cash actually lived in jamaica for six months out of the year yeah and he knew all about this house and he says that the ghost would haunt

him wait that's how i know about this the ballad of annie palmer that's why is a song by johnny cash it all makes sense and some of the lyrics are on the island of jamaica quite a long long time ago at rose hall plantation where the ocean breezes blow, lived a girl named Annie Palmer, the mistress of the place, and the slaves all lived in fear to see a frown on Annie's face. Where's your husband, Annie? Where's number two and three? Are they sleeping neath the palms

beside the Caribbean Sea? At night I hear you riding, and I hear your lover's call, and still can feel your presence round the great house at Rose Hall. So it's a very specific song yeah yeah very very like on the nail yeah um but so a lot of people say like why would all these people have all these experiences like just because archives say though like it didn't happen yeah so it's a toss-up and it's technically

folklore but i mean a whole you know fucking group of people believe right i mean it's a toss up and it's technically folklore. But I mean, a whole, you know, fucking group of people. Right. I mean, it's still history. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Wow. That is spooky, dude.

That Johnny Cash lyric is like creepy. There you go. That was a good one. That was a really good one. Thanks. I really like that. OK, we're back. We derailed drastically.

Wow. Wow. We've been gone for a good half an hour we went on an adventure and we're changed people transported one might say transported indeed to a different headspace hello we're back to our normal murder headspace back to life back to reality back to black back to the future back parts one two and three boys okay okay good that's our mantra as we always say yeah uh-huh it's family tradition family tradition so here i'm going to tell the story of the murder of lauren giddings again for the i don't know almost a hundredth time i don't know what that story is fun evie I don't know, almost 100th time, I don't know what that story is. Fun. Evie, you don't know it either, do you? Okay.

So I actually had, there was a lot of information online. It's a pretty recent case, but I hadn't heard it and I couldn't find it in many like shows or podcasts or anything. So, but it is a doozy. I'll tell you that much. So this story takes place in 2011. So only seven years ago. Yikes.

I always hate when they're so close. Really recent. It's like, ooh, it's like in some way, if a story is hundreds of years old or like at least like early 1900s, it's like. Why do you think every time we go to a city and do a live show, I type in 1800s murders in blank city? Oh, I know that's what you did. Yes.

Because it is a lot easier to tell a story that is many many years old and no one living has like connections to it necessarily yeah it's like it's just it seems more distant so you can yeah it's a lot easier to talk about when you have a you're removed a little bit right exactly right but this one is definitely very recent great yes and lauren was 27 years old oh boy which is how old i am and she had just because i know i'm old i get it ha ha ha i said nothing i said nothing i know but you i thought everything thought it. Ha ha ha. I said nothing. I said nothing. I know, but you've. I thought everything. You thought it and the ESP just kicked in.

Yeah. So she had just graduated from the Mercer University Law School in Macon, Georgia. Mm-hmm. And was studying for the bar exam. She had moved to Macon from Maryland in 2008 to start law school. So she was originally like a Northeast gal. Got it. And then she moved to Georgia because she liked living in the south and it suited her apparently so she was known as bubbly infectious extremely

caring uh she hoped to become a public defender because she cared for the less fortunate and she wanted to help defend people who couldn't hire an attorney they didn't have the financial means so she was really in it like to make the world a better place basically uh she always wore pink pantsuits right and she had a dog named sounds like my mom you're like right get it i'm like i'm that's nothing new she had a dog named butterbean and she would take her dog everywhere so basically her best friend said they always used to tease her for being the real life elwoods because she fucking carried like a dog pink pantsuit little dog like a paganese dog everywhere she went in a pink pantsuit like she was sort of the true life embodiment of elwoods right i mean if geo were the size of

bruiser i would be i would be carrying him everywhere he's not and i do carry him everywhere so you know you should see me carry him in my heart you should have seen me on the way to my wedding and running through lax with a wedding gown in one hand and geo in the other because he refuses to walk in the airport and i'm just fucking like booking it it's that's strength he's a heavy little fucker oh I couldn't move my left arm for several days that's full like maternal adrenaline but my mom still tells me that her shoulder is like fucked up forever from carrying me because I refuse to walk so maybe it's karma who knows maybe um love youio. He's here with us today. He does not care about anything you have to say. No, he doesn't give a shit.

So anyway, as I said, it's the summer of 2011. Lauren had just graduated and was studying for the Georgia Bar, which was taking place a few weeks later. And most of her friends there were also classmates. So they were all kind of in the same boat of like studying intensely for the same exam. So Wednesday, June 29th, Lauren's sister caitlin uh she had sent a photo so lauren had gone to her wedding recently and they had taken some like goofy photos together so caitlin had texted her a few photos on her way back from the honeymoon like look how silly we are

like these goofy photos and lauren had never responded so on june 29th she's like huh it's been a few days and she never responded. So she tried calling her, tried texting her, no response. Calls went straight to voicemail. And she's like, that's weird. So after a while of no response, she knows something is up. So she starts calling other family. Nobody has heard from Lauren. So she messages Lauren's best friend, Ashley, who says, oh, I'll just stop by her apartment and check on her. So Lauren lived in a small apartment complex across the street from the law school that had four apartments spread out on two floors. And Ashley and her boyfriend, Paxton, head over to check on her.

They don't hear an answer when they knock on the door, but they're thinking she's probably just studying and like not answering the door. But Caitlin, her sister, is like, no no i need you to use the spare key tells them where the spare key is and like go into the apartment so ashley and paxton let themselves in and they're looking around lauren's not there but they see her purse her keys her wallet and everything else sitting out on the counter and they're like that's odd because none of us have heard from her in days and yet everything she owns her shoes everything is like right in the in the entry hall and so caitlin is like call 9-1-1 so because caitlin's like i know something's wrong right so ashley dials 9-1-1 nobody none of the classmates none of her friends have seen her so the macon city police department gets the call around midnight and a couple officers head over to

do a welfare check when they see that like they said all of lauren's belongings are still out they realize like this might be more sinister than just like she went off and is gone for a few days or something like they think something might have happened so they call on a gut feeling basically called the criminal investigations division and lauren decides to start a search party so lauren's the no sorry lauren lauren does not lauren's like oh lauren's like some independent shit no sorry ashley decides to start a search party for lauren got it in my head ashley wow what is like it like astral projection or it's hard because okay it's not hard but it's all me but like ashley lauren caitlin like all the names are basic names all very just like in my head very similar names so i kind of had a hard

time keeping them straight but yeah so ashley decides to start a search party so it's made up of her her boyfriend paxton lauren's ex-boyfriend alex and her next door neighbor steven so they're all friends and classmates um so they all they're checking the law library, the campus. They're driving around town, and they search for hours, and there's no sign of her. And so they just kind of have to sit back and, like, wait because there's really nothing else they can do. Like, they've searched everywhere they can think of.

Lauren's case goes to a violent crimes detective, and he heads out to scan Lauren's apartment. They videotape the search, and it's actually interesting. You can see the video footage online of them, like, walking through the apartment. It's eerie. Like, her keys, her wallet, her shoes, everything's there. And that weekend, the weird thing was, too, that, like, that weekend she was scheduled to move out of her apartment and into her boyfriend's place in South Carolina. But nothing was packed.

Nothing was boxed up. Everything was like kind of out spread out it was like really messy apartment like just everything's everywhere so they were like that's weird like it didn't look like she was prepping for a move um so he becomes convinced that lauren has met with foul play so investigators are kind of gathered outside lauren's apartment trying to figure out what to do next when a gust of wind picks up. And they smell something. Oh, no. Yeah. They smell death?

Investigators said they recognized the scent immediately. It was human remains. Yikes. And they basically said after so many years on the job, like, you know the second. I think like the first time you ever smell death, you just never forget what death smells like. I would imagine, right? I mean, I've never smelled human death, i mean i smell animal death like i imagine they're kind of the same like sweet like rotting yeah yeah i imagine all bodies kind of just smell the

same when they're dead yeah i mean i don't know but i imagine yeah and i imagine that like once you smell it as an investigator you're like i know what that is right yeah so they smell it and they're like okay so they realize the smell is coming from trash cans on the side of the apartment complex so a crime tech digs through the trash finds a large black bag and in the bag they find a human torso wow everyone's favorite i really was just expecting you to say lauren and you really had to like christine it up i couldn't avoid it wow i don't like it i and also i was prepared to say like if you said oh they found lauren i was gonna be like how lazy like to just like take a body and then just like the nearest dumpster just put her there yeah well it becomes a thing okay well

apparently there's just a torso and now i have no comment. There's only a torso. Right. Okay. I was like, oh, okay. They find a human torso. No head, no legs, no arms. Gio is so happy about that. Look at his happy smile.

Okay. Okay. He feels uncomfortable now. Too many eyes. Okay. They find a human torso. Okay. No head, no legs, and no arms.

The body was only wearing a pair of pink running shorts yuck yeah so it had legs attached no no legs no arms just like it just like a just the shorts were on it yuck yeah it's not good it's not good it's really bad so not good and remember she wore pink a lot right yeah so Oh, yeah. Yeah. So they are like, holy shit. So they circle back to Lauren's apartment because obviously they're like, well, if someone dismembered a fucking body to make a torso out of it. There's got to be more of it somewhere. Well, not.

Well, that, too. But that's my first thought. Well, but the thought was like, it's messy. It's not like there would be. That's a smarter and that's a smarter thought there would yes there's a head somewhere for sure like if i'm seeing a torso we gotta start looking for some arms they didn't find any arms and legs when they were looking around so they were like well if somebody cut a body up like makes sense there that was what do you want he's mad that i'm not looking at him like that's literally what he's mad about right

now he is staring you down yeah he's mad that i won't pay at him. Like, that's literally what he's mad about right now. He is staring you down. Yeah, he's mad that I won't pay attention to him. And then he just looked at me like, do you believe this shit? What do you want? No, I don't have treats for you right now. Oh, my God. He's so a little bit. I love you, though.

Okay. Yes, you have enough pets over there. Okay. Da-da-da-da-da. So. You're such a little ass do you no honey i'm not gonna do that right now can i move you outside a little bit you can be quiet now okay um okay so they okay they circle back to lauren's apartment because they're like well if somebody dismembered her body, like, there has to be evidence somewhere that they fucking sawed legs off her.

You know, there has to be blood or something. Right. So they get out their handy dandy luminol. I have had enough of you. What do you want? He just wants your attention. He's like, fuck you, mom. Yeah, Gio, come.

Up. he's like fuck you mom yeah geo come up what do you want no i don't have treats i know he's looking for treats okay sorry about it everybody hello let's hope we put elevator yeah let's put elevator music there we were at torsoso. Right. But also if you can get like one of his like growls in there, that'd be funny. Oh, no, no, no. Those can all be in there. But then when I was being. Shooing him away. Shooing.

Yeah, that would be a fun little elevator moment. Yeah. Since we talked about it. Okay. Right. We're back at Torso's. Okay. Here we go.

Yeah. We're never really far from them. We're always within my nightmare is one way to put it. Yes, yes, yes. So, okay. They find a torso clad in only pink running shorts. Of course. Very fucking upsetting.

So they get out their handy dandy luminol. They start spraying. And in Lauren's bathroom, the entire tub starts glowing. Oh, no. Streaks of blood all the way up halfway through the tub. So basically the tub has basically been like full of blood and been like kind of washed out. Oh, shit. Yeah.

So detectives obviously determined that's where the dismemberment had taken place. Right. And then they're thinking, obviously, who the fuck did this? Because this is not like she went missing. This is not like she died on a trail while jogging. Right. You know, this is like somebody fucking sadistic. Yeah. Somebody sadistic. Yeah.

Somebody sadistic did this. And their first thought was this is either a serial killer or someone who is being primed to be a serial killer. Right. So then they realized whoever dismembered her body had to have a time on their hands and be also must known must have known that they had plenty of time to get this done because it's not like a quick thing like right this person must have known like oh like lauren doesn't have anyone coming home or you know that kind of thing so then they're like well let's start with people

lauren knows obviously and people who might know her schedule on when she's going to be home so meanwhile back in maryland lauren's parents and two sisters are getting ready to head to Macon to search for Lauren. In fact, one of the sisters was actually at the airport about to board a plane to Macon when her mom calls and is like, we don't need to go down there. Yikes. And she's like, why? What happened? And she's like, they found a body. So that's when they kind of know, like, there's no use searching basically anymore um which is

actually really fucked up because they found out like on the news like they didn't know until no yeah and uncle walked in was like did you see this news report and it turns out that reporters were like they found a body outside the apartment complex and again there are only four apartments in this complex so it's kind of like yeah obvious. So like two people died at the same time, right? Yeah, exactly. So when Lauren's uncle said, Did you see the news, they found a body, her sister, Sarah said, in that moment, everyone just broke down and was like, that's it, she's gone. And Lauren's dad immediately hops in a car and starts driving from Baltimore to Macon, or from like a suburb of Baltimore to Macon to go down and identify the body and talk to police and it's an 11-hour drive

so I just can't even imagine that drive of just like hopping in the car knowing your daughter was yeah fucking murdered and put in a trash can and he has to drive down there and meanwhile in Macon detectives are interviewing Lauren's friends, her exes, her classmates, her neighbors, like anyone that they can kind of get their hands on who might have known her. And they do start with Lauren's next door neighbor, Stephen, who had lived next door for three years, but was only acquaintances with Lauren. And he was also a classmate at the law school. And he tells police he hadn't heard anything unusual, but that she loved to jog. So maybe something happened on the running trails. Right with her shorts, too.

Right, exactly. And then next they went to Lauren's best friend, Ashley, who had started the search party and all that. And she says that the two of them were at a party for the Lograds the night before Lauren went missing. And it was kind of like a last hurrah before studying for the bar. So they like had a last big blowout before they all had to kind of hit the books. And in attendance was Ashley's boyfriend, Paxton and Paxton's roommate, Alex, who just so happened to be Lauren's ex-boyfriend. So basically Ashley's boyfriend lived with Lauren's ex-boyfriend.

Got it. So after the bar closed, Ashley and Lauren both went back to Alex and Paxton's apartment with a couple other people to continue the party. And the last time Ashley saw Lauren, she was still up chatting with friends. And the next morning around 10 a.m., Ashley walked out and didn't see Lauren sleeping in the living room with the rest of their friends. So she thought, oh, she probably just went home early to get started on studying. But remember, she had a new boyfriend.

Did I tell this already? Oh, yeah, yeah. She had a new boyfriend whose place she was planning on moving into, which is why they were, like, surprised that the apartment wasn't packed up. Right. Right. So the new boyfriend, they asked about him. And it turns out this guy was a 48-year-old man.

What? Age is scary. I don't know. He's older. Yeah, he was a lot older. Yeah. Which I don't judge. I think I was expecting something different.

And so I was ready to react. And then you said 48. And I was like, ah! He was a serial killer. He was a 48-year-old. So yes, he was older by 19 years. He was older. He was a guy from Charl. So yes, he was older by like 19 years. He was older. He was a guy from Charleston named John Capleton.

Okay. He was a successful lawyer. And I think she had interned at his law firm. And that's how they had met like a few years prior. They were pretty serious. But Lauren's friend said they had a tumultuous relationship. They argued pretty regularly um especially lately and ashley thought john didn't really want lauren to move in with him and that's kind of why they

were arguing all the time um and then when they asked about lauren's ex alex whose apartment they had hung out and partied at the night before she went missing uh ashley said oh yeah alex and john definitely knew about each other um and definitely didn't like each other oh so not a good start talk about a german what do we call it earlier dramatic love triangle did we call it a dramatic love triangle i was talking about not this one but the um story you told what did we call that the most dramatic love story of all time was involved there somewhere oh i think i called it fredericksburg virginia yes you did it seemed it seemed that way it was like the the guy loved the granddaughter yeah the it was it was that she was sleeping with her slave but in love with a guy who was in love with the slave's granddaughter

yes so it's basically a trapezoid yeah it is kind of i'm thinking rhombus wait no rhombus is a five pointer isn't it no a rhombus is like when it's like slanted, isn't it? Is that a parallelogram? I mean, it's definitely a parallelogram. Listen, I am just impressed that we knew three different types of things that aren't triangles. And that's why we ate geometry. And that's why we got Ds in geometry. Or why I got a D in geometry.

And that's why we fail math. And that's why I was not a math major. Yes. A rhombus. was not a math major. Yes. Arambus. What's Arambus, Eva? I'm going to look it up. Eva, what's Arambus? I feel like Arambus is the one that has like, it's pointed and it's like short on the top,

long on the bottom, and then like connected. Maybe. Why in my head is it slanted? But you're right. That is a parallelogram. Isn't a parallelogram its own thing? What's Arambus? Everyone's screaming in our ears right

now there's a there's someone out there who's literally taking geometry right now and is like how do you not fucking remember shapes and that person just fucking punched a bus window and hurt their knuckles so hard they're so mad it's amazing we've made it this far sounds like a rhombus is a parallelogram with opposite equal acute angles oh so it is the slanty oh what the fuck am i thinking of then yes the slanty boy oh you're right then what the fuck am i thinking of but it is a parallelogram too oh okay oh but the five point i don't know what's the five point one i'm thinking that is a pentagram you're thinking of the devil silly Silly. A pentagon? Oh. No, pentagram. Oh, pentagon.

I see what you're saying. Yeah. Pentagram is five points of a star. Right. Pentagon is the shape. Is the shape. What is wrong with another one, too? I think I'm thinking of half a hexagram.

What could half a hexagram be? Hexagram is six. Yeah. Half of a hexagram is three. Right? Because it's half of six. Yeah. I think. Can you just check? Can you just check? It's a triagram is three right because it's half of six yeah i think can you just check

can you just check i meant to try a gram i think we should just shut this down and move on we all know i mean to be honest i actually the only a i ever got in math was geometry and i did not get an a in any other math class i'm not kidding when i tell you i got a d in geometry. My sister currently has a D in geometry, so you're not alone. He was like, why are you making me? Because I also barely passed geometry. Yes, okay. Geometry is hard. Can you look at half a hexagram?

I'm losing my mind. Half a hexagram, yes. What the fuck are you doing? It's only five point shape. It did also bring a pentagram. Thank you. Half a hexagram? What are you talking about?

I don't know. Just trust me. I got an A. I know you're right. One of my only A's was in geometry. hexagram thank you half a hexagram what are you talking about i don't know just trust me i got it i know you're right one of my only a's was in geometry let me have this one moment of saying i know what a rhombus is what the first thing that came up when i typed in half a hexagram is an amazon book called half hexagram quilt templates you're thinking about quilting silly goose silly goose you're thinking about quilt class. Let me type in a hexagram. Quilt class.

Here, I'm using our edible arrangement sticks to prove a point. Silly. A hexagram, I think, is also kind of like the... Thank you. A pentagram. But a hexagon. Oh, a hexagon. Half a hexagon. Oh, for God's sakes, Em.

It's this thing. This thing is what I'm talking about. But without the long parts here. But that's just... I almost called you babe. It's like, let me just soften the blow by calling you babe. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight.

Yes. The yellow guy. What? The little yellow guy. What about it? That's the thing I was thinking about this whole time. Okay. That's all.

I just wanted you to know. Just a shape. Okay. I mean, I knew. I knew. the shape okay i mean i knew i knew yeah just a shape the yellow it's okay oh my god it's okay someone's gonna say there's a chart on the shape there's a rhombus okay i literally babysit a two-year-old sometimes so i'm sure actually knows the answer and i just fucking can't figure it out and i have a master's degree oh my god i'm sorry oh my god congratulations on your a by the way but i mean to be honest

it was like the one thing i ever did good at that like did good at the one thing i ever did well that wasn't like english drinking wine oh and wine but the one thing where i was like wow mom i know shapes and she was like that's not impressive but i feel like i think after basic arithmetic i just stopped trying geometry just worked better than in my brain than like uh algebra and all that like that beyond me beyond trigonometry uh-uh but geometry i was like squares cool i'm gonna make myself sound like a real idiot and i already know it too late um in my math class i got a cold and i was sick and i missed the day that we learned long division and then i was so embarrassed i've never learned that for like the rest of the year i just like

pretended that like i figured it out but i can never figure it out how did you pass like tests and shit oh i didn't oh but then like eventually i went to like my teacher like two years later like i kept thinking like by that point we just had fucking calculators i just never so you built it up into such a thing that you were like i can't admit it two years later i went to my math teacher and i was like i don't know how to do long division. And she laughed in my face and told me to leave. And I was like, Oh, this isn't a joke. You know, you're going to get so many DMs like I'll teach you long division. Well, I actually went on a date with a math teacher one time and she taught me long division. And I was like, that's it. I've been waiting years. I feel like

it's like a little riddle that like is not also I did not like sell myself on that first day by being like, I don't know long division. Hey, i know it was one date only by the way in your tinder bio you were a math teacher i not actually attracted you but i really need to learn long i was like i'll buy you dinner if you just teach me this one thing so my mom doesn't find out i never learned long division you're here for one reason one reason only i literally never saw that woman again after this after this you taught me that shocker um no but truly like i think now if you put it in front of my face i don't know how to do like it's that thing of like i'll have kids someday maybe and i'll be like ask your dad and then right ask the one with the yale medical

degree i don't know if we'll ever know i don't know well also it's that thing where like our teachers always said you're never gonna always have a calculator on you and now we do like they were just so wrong that's such a good point they're like you have to learn this stuff because you'll never always have a calculator on you because i remember you apple just totally proved you wrong good point taking the sats they didn't even make us like get rid of our phones they just made up made us quiet them because back then like you weren't using your phone to like do every problem like you couldn't google like what is this vocabulary right sat word yeah and nowadays they have to like fucking get rid of the phones just in case exactly wow yeah i'm just

gonna tell my kid to google it it's a little moral story actually i'll probably just be like it's a rhombus ask em and then they'll get a d and thinks it's a pentagram i think what a wild tangent that was happy friendiversary hey guys do you miss when we did that? And everyone would scream at us always that we don't talk about scary stuff enough. Look, we we stopped that for a long time. We did. We're in a mood today on our friend diversity. We want to treat ourselves. We're fucking reverting back to old.

So we're not even going to edit this out like we usually would. Hell no. All right. We want you to learn alongside us. Tell me more about this really sad story. Really took a lot of knowledge away from everyone. Sorry about that. people probably start listening rhombuses are shapes apparently anti rectangles half a hexagon except that is a pentagram maybe okay cool let's talk about the only one i care about by the way just so everyone's clear is a pentagram because these days i only think about

the devil what about star of david the hexagram? I think about being Jewish. No, I know. You care about that one too, I'm saying. Oh, I care about it. Yeah. But if you ever say like pentagram, I don't think of a shape. I just think of like worshiping the devil. No, pentagram is the star.

I meant. I know what you mean. I mean the other thing that you said. I hear it. Not a pentagram. What was the other thing? Pentagon. Pentagon.

That's what I meant. Pentagon, like the thing in DC. Yes. The thing in DC. That thing. We're so cultured. That stupid thing. But then my dumb ass said pentagram what was the other thing pentagon pentagon that's what i meant pentagon like the thing in dc but yes the thing in dc we're so cultured thing but then my dumb ass said pentagram i know i know okay cool anyway moving on moving on great i'm sweating oh i've been sweating since the second dawn of time i know since the second this podcast started but also the dawn of time let's talk about this murder thank you cool so, blah. So we're talking about John, who lives in Charleston, and he is a lawyer, and he's 48. Ew. Right.

That's where we were. Right. So Lauren's friend said, and not ew, not ew, people date older and younger people. It's not abnormal. I said I didn't judge that. I was reminding myself, like, oh, and then I gasped at 48, and that's where we were in the story. I just want to clarify.

Okay, cool. So basically, they were like, Ashley was like, I don't think John wanted want to clarify okay cool um so basically they were like ashley was like i don't think john wanted lauren to move in with him so it was like and then alex her ex-boyfriend and john her current boyfriend did not get along i hear you and it was the most dramatic love heck love there it is the love rhombus oh my god now i get the love rhombus it's the most dramatic love rhombus of all time. Cool. So basically, these two all of a sudden are moved up to the top of the suspect list because police are like, shit. They don't like each other.

Bad news bears. Love rhombuses are never fucking good. Love rhombuses are never fucking good. No, they're always bad. So back at Lauren's apartment, one of the investigators is still searching for clues. He's walking down the right side of the complex when he notices a door and the owner of the complex opens it up and it's like a maintenance room and he notices a hacksaw on the wall and he's like i thought you were gonna say a fucking hexagon he notices a pentagram also maybe that

was there too i mean maybe all right a hacksaw got it he notices a hacksaw which stands out because lauren's body had been dismembered with something that they thought was a sawaw got it he notices a hacksaw which stands out because lauren's body had been dismembered with something that they thought was a saw right got it so the tech takes it out he looks at it and he's like oh there's literal red liquid on it there's literal blood on this hacksaw oh my god so someone did not clean up after not a good job of cleaning so they asked the owner who has access to this room and she's like only myself and one other person. And they're like, who's the other person? Tell me. She's like the apartment manager, Peter Walsh.

So they're like, holy shit, this is another huge suspect. So they add like a third suspect to the big list. So they go talk to Peter and they're like, OK, well, there was no forced entry into Lauren's apartment the night she was killed. So this is a great lead because the apartment manager has a master key to every apartment in the complex. So they are like also Peter, super eager to help, which is kind of like,

okay, like a little bit, a little bit of red flag. Right. Um, and he's also a second year law student who gets a break on rent as a maintenance man. Um,

and he says the last time he was in her apartment was because there were some maintenance issues with her ac unit and so they asked him about the bloody hacksaw and he says he has no idea about that hacksaw and i've actually not even that i've never used it but i've also never seen it and i didn't buy it so they're like interesting so then they're like well this guy's fucking on top of our list. And then he provides an alibi with several people involved and it fucking checks out. Oh, this guy. They are like super hesitant about it, but they have to take him off the right list because they're like as much as he has every possible access to her apartment. Right.

And this hacksaw like he provided an alibi that they just it's like airtight. Right. And this hacksaw, like he provided an alibi that they just, it's like airtight, basically. So that night after an 11 hour drive, Lauren's father, Bill, arrives in Macon and he's been driving for 11 hours. He's anxious to ID his daughter and talk to police about what happened. And at this point, he doesn't know about the body's condition because they never talked about it on the news. They just said like a body was found at the apartment complex and police didn't like want to tell him like your daughter's been dismembered and we don't have any part of her you know except the torso um and so but he kept insisting like i need to see her and they're like we can't let you do that and he's like why why you know he's like i deserve to know

why and so finally they had to break the news and this uh i watched like a dateline episode on this it was like very heartbreaking the chief of police is like empties the room he clears the room and he's like i'm gonna speak with bill and he says rather than uh to speak to him as police chief he's gonna speak to him father to father because he has kids too and he's like this was he said he told um lauren's dad bill about how they found her body and the condition they found it in. And he says all that happened was his face went blank. He said this was the hardest family notification he had ever had to do in his career. And he said after that, it was just kind of like he just went blank and then was like, OK, and headed back to Maryland.

And it was just the most like heartbreaking. Yeah. I mean, how do you react? You just I how do you take news like that he said he thinks he was just in shock like yeah yeah um and he's like being like the father of several kids like it was just the worst thing to be like also like the weight of like knowing you're going home and have to like report that back yeah geez yeah and drive like fucking 11 hours back to maryland like i can't i truly can't you would imagine um and so they so before he left bill left a piece of his own dna so that they could compare it to the body they found that he wasn't able to id and they did compare and determine that for sure it was lauren's body um so anyway they're still like hardcore interviewing

suspects and next up is lauren's ex-boyfriend alex so alex confirms that they all went to the same party together and lauren and ashley did come over with a couple other people to his apartment after the bar closed remember how i said ashley like woke up the next morning and lauren wasn't in the living room with all the friends turns out that's because she was sleeping in her ex-boyfriend alex's bedroom that night in the apartment so he's like yeah she spent the night in my bed that night and they were like interesting right right right so he confirms that um and then they ask him you know they press him for like more detail and he says we fooled around a bit but we didn't sleep

together because she was dating john and i knew that and she knew that and like so they didn't have sex but they fooled around a little bit and he was like that was as far as it went and he did admit that lauren was the one who dumped him and he also said he still had feelings for her so they were like shit this is like right gold mine of motive you know right um but he said he insisted he's not holding a grudge and they were like okay we'll see about that next up was john so that was her ex-boyfriend that she had spent the night with and then next up was john capleton who was the current boyfriend the 48 year old ew ew from m's standpoint uh the 48 year old right so he insisted he insisted. Um, so he came. Okay. Sorry.

Sorry for not talking so much. I just realized I'm just like way captivated into this story. No, no. It's sorry. I know you usually rely on me for like side commentary and I realized I've just been silent. I mean, I feel like there's a lot and I feel like I'm just throwing it in your face. So I'm just like taking it all. Listen, you taught me all about rambuses. So I feel like I've done enough hexagons.

So I feel like I taught you all about how I don't know anything for the thousandth time in our friendship i really do just kind of walk around clueless and i hope whatever i say sticks so oh well it sticks believe me it sticks in ways i don't want it to it sticks in one way or another it doesn't matter which way right no um yeah so john capleton is the next one that they interview. And basically, when he shows up at the police station and they tell him that Lauren has been murdered, he is genuinely distraught. And like, what the actual fuck? They ask him about the arguments that Lauren's friends had apparently witnessed between him and Lauren. He gets a little defensive and they start prying him for information. And finally, they ask where he was the night of Lauren's murder. And he says i was golfing in california okay as you do as you do as i do

as m does all the fuck if there's nothing i do more than golf in california specifically right i mean i'm here so it makes sense if there was one one thing m does it's golf in california a thousand percent so they're like okay he's golfing in california they ask for receipts um and he's like oh i didn't bring any with me and then he's like but don't worry i'll email them as soon as i get home and they're like uh-huh so doctor some shit on your computer got it right they're like okay well then send them as soon as you get home and he's like okay i will to like fucking prove your innocence in a murder trial right he's like great we'll do that so then

as he's so investigators release him and as he's walking out the freaking door he goes wait i remembered something and they're like what he goes the night she was killed the night she went missing lauren sent me an email around 10 40 p.m and the email said she was worried because she felt like she was being watched and they're, how did you just forget that? What? So then they're like, holy shit. So they obviously ask for the email and he gives them the email. And it is an email from that night around 1040.

And I'm going to read you an excerpt. Okay. She wrote him an email that says, quote, I can't wait to get out of this town. Macon hoodlums tried to break into my apartment Thursday night. It was terrifying. I haven't been able to really sleep since. And so that was the email that he got the night she went missing. Got it.

They're like, that adds a whole new element of like, maybe she knew something was going on. Or maybe it wasn't someone who knew her. Like, maybe it was just strangers. So at this point, obviously, they're not any closer to figuring out who killed her. And they're like adding suspects left and right. And like, who knows what the fuck is going on? And because this maintenance man, Peter, was clear because he had an alibi, they put the pressure on Lauren's ex-boyfriend, Alex. And then Alex had an alibi that was like, it wasn't airtight, but it was like people vouched for him.

So they were like okay like he's not a priority suspect right now and so in the meantime they're still fucking waiting for john's receipts from his california golf trip um he had promised to email them but two fucking weeks later they still had two weeks oh my god they were very patient two weeks two weeks. Oh, my God. I'm like, they were very patient. Two weeks later, no fucking email. And so they contact John and they're like, yo, you said you would send this. Hello, fresh. And John is like, oh. He's like, in my opinion, the age old excuse of, oh, the email must not have gone through.

I definitely sent them. Gotcha. Gotcha. So he apparently checks the computer and realizes the file was too big and it wasn't going through so at this point the police are on edge thinking like holy shit he's full of bullshit like this is right he's got to be our guy he's like not sending us the easy thing that would prove him innocent but finally the receipts go through and everything checks out and he was fucking in california on a

golf trip so they're like this lead that seemed so fucking good suddenly a dead end and he's completely ruled out as a suspect could they have been doctored no there there was like credit card receipts and shit like there was yeah it was like very a number of things that placed him exactly all over this area that he was golfing yeah so it was like just they were really like devastated and like we were so we thought we had something gotcha um so police at this point feel like they're at square one and they decide to start basically from scratch in that they start canvassing lauren's apartment complex to ask basic questions of her neighbors like how long have you known lauren like did you see her the days before she went missing just like

very basic canvassing to start basically from the beginning right and uh one of the people they question is lauren's neighbor steven that law school classmate who helped search for her the night she was reported missing who said earlier on like oh she liked to jog maybe something happened to her on the trails so they start interviewing him and they show up at his door and he lets police into the apartment and they start searching he gives them permission uh while one of the officers questions him and the officer asks him if he's seen any or if he's seeing anyone like in a relationship and he says no they ask if he's sexually active with anyone. And he says he's saving himself for marriage. Okay.

So, okay. Is that for religious reasons? And he's like, no, I just want to be pure on my wedding day. And they're like, okay. And this is like, you know, whatever. It makes sense. It's fine. Right.

Until they're going through his bedroom and in his drawers, they find a number of condoms. Oh, my God. Yeah. And they're drawers, they find a number of condoms. Oh, my God. Yeah. And they're like, interesting. If you're saving yourself, you're not in a relationship and you're saving yourself for marriage. Right. Why do you need these? And he fucking admits something they were not expecting, which is that he got them out of other people's apartments.

In that he went into other people's apartments when they were not home in the apartment complex and stole them. Okay. And they're like. First of all, why would you break into people's apartments and steal things? But second of all, why condoms if you don't need them? If you're going to steal something, wouldn't you steal something you need? I don't know if it was more of a power move of like. Got it.

I'm taking them away from other people who need them. That makes sense. I don't. That was my gut. But I don't know. I mean, I don't know. It doesn't make sense overall. But yeah, I think my gut was like, oh, like I want to be pure and I'm gonna take them

from other people who need them or use them I'm not positive though so he's like oh I took them from other people's apartments in the apartment complex when they weren't home and they were like okay that's very illegal guy right um and they're're like, well, how did you get in? And he's like, I have a master key to the apartment complex. Oh my God. And they're like, They're like, you know we're here for a murder investigation, right? Yeah, yeah.

And then literally speaking of that, at this point, he's like, shit, I've said too much. So he's like, I refuse to say anything else. And they're like, okay, but you already said a lot. So we're going to arrest you for burglary because now we can hold you for a very legitimate crime and question you for it and search your apartment right so they take him in for burglary and while they're while he's being held they do a deeper dive into the apartment um in his dresser they in a back bedroom they find a pair of panties and guess whose they are they're fucking lauren's underwear oh no yes

sick bastard then underneath uh his vanity in the bathroom they find the cardboard packaging of a brand new hacksaw and it is the exact same hacksaw that was found uh with lauren's blood on it by the way they did dna testing and the the blood was Lauren's blood in the maintenance closet. They also found two keys, one key to the maintenance closet, which was a master key that went to every apartment. And then they found a freaking key

that had been cut exactly to Lauren's front door. So specifically her fucking front door. So they start talking to Stephen's friends and they discover that Stephen had an unusual interest. He was apparently completely preoccupied with how to get away with the perfect murder and it turns out he frequently talked with not even friends but acquaintances about how chopping and disposing of pieces of a body in a bathtub would be the perfect way to get away

a perfect way to get away with a crime. Oh, that's convenient. So convenient. Yeah, one guy was like, I was a classmate of his, and he was telling me how if he could, he would put a body in a bathtub and dismember it. And they were like, weird. And he's like, I felt really weird after that. And it's like, yeah. Wow.

It wasn't even a friend of his. Not that that makes it any more normal. Sure, sure, sure. Right. So August 2, 2011,hen mcdaniel is charged with first degree murder and surprise surprise he claims he's innocent but lauren's family is like super relieved that somebody has finally been charged but at the same time they're also horrified because her classmates know stephen and uh he was like part of this small search party in the beginning and was side by side with them when she went missing and was saying like we'll find her and like this is

devastating and now they're like holy shit he might have fucking hacked up her body right and been next to us the whole time and what's more this is where it gets internet creepy he had recently been featured on the local news being interviewed by a reporter. And in this clip, which, by the way, is like a famous one online, he describes how kind and caring of a person Lauren is. He wonders how anyone could have hurt her. He's like

near tears. He describes a search for Lauren and says we've been searching for her for days and hopes they find her alive and well. It's like super sick because you watch it now and you're like what a fucker like yeah putting on this act being on tv right again remember this guy just fucking graduated from law school so like when he's like saying oh i stole these condoms from a neighbor oops i've said too much and like yeah sure you can

search my apartment like he's just being a fucking dumbass yeah he just graduated from law school he should know better um he's just a self-important prick or maybe i maybe he thought if he like decided he was guilty if he like admitted he was guilty towards burglary they'd be like i don't know there would be like less of a charge or something that's probably what he thought but it's like that's not how the law works like if you say i'm a burglar like then they're like great now we have every right to fucking search and question you. I guess he was like, I'd rather go to jail as a burglar than a murderer and just hope that they would stop looking. I don't know.

Yeah. But like if you're going to go to jail as a burglar, then like you open yourself up to questioning for every other thing. Like if you were like, I have no idea, come back with a warrant, you know, then maybe it makes things tough. Yeah. It just doesn't. As someone who just spent several years studying law, it doesn't fucking make sense right it just really

doesn't it's so fucking stupid so now so then at this point they've arrested him uh charged him with murder and when they go back through all these news clips they realize like there is a huge fucking red flag in this news clip because in this famous clip that you can still find online, Stephen's being interviewed when one of the reporters mentions the body that they found by Lauren's apartment. So the reporter is still talking and Stephen just like his whole face just fucking goes pale and drops. And he has this like big like curly hair. Like he's like frantic when he's talking about like, oh, her body. We don't know where she is like she could be we don't know what happened to her and they're like oh the body that they found

and like you realize that he had not known about this and his face fucking drops and you just hear him go body and then like the woman's like talking talking talking and he just goes completely ashen oh my god just like stares at the ground and they're like so are you okay are you all right um he won't respond his demeanor completely changes and then all of a sudden he goes i need to sit down and like walks away from the cameras sits on the curb with his head in his hands and is like rocking and they're like holy shit and at the time it was like oh god his friend has just been he just found out they found the body of his friend yeah but then afterwards they're like holy shit like he's when they got busted.

Yeah. He realized they found his fucking evidence that he thought he hid. And the crazy thing is that, you know why he thought he was so shocked that they found the body? Why? And you were like, oh, you know, how stupid that you would put the body right in a trash can right by the apartment. Right. So trash day was the morning after lauren's murder got it but because cop cars had arrived on the scene a little early because of that gut instinct of the guy being like

bring in the crime techs yeah so these cops showed up that weren't necessarily supposed to be there like weren't expected and they parked in front of the trash can so the dump truck the trash truck like couldn't get in past the house and we and was like i can't reach these trash cans so just pass by so if as expected these uh the dump truck would have picked up the trash cans like there's a chance they never would have figured out what happened because the only reason was that gust of wind that like brought the human remains smell right um so he was like completely shocked because he thought like oh the dump truck for sure took away the trash so at this point they're like well steven's definitely our guy but everything they had including like the hacksaw and everything was just circumstantial so they were like he's

gonna worm his way out of it um and steven and his defense team like had this swagger about them and they were like clearly weren't worried about it and And so the defense attorney was like, shit, like, we need to make sure we pin this guy because otherwise, like, he might walk out of it. So the Georgia Bureau of Investigation had already searched Stephen's computer. But since they had first searched it, they had acquired newer software. And so they called it like an 11th hour last ditch effort. The DA asked them to run one more test with the new software just to be sure and to look for anything on his computer related to sex and violence and lo and behold when they

use this new software they hit pay dirt which is the phrase i learned they hit a gold mine and they found all sorts of crazy shit on his fucking computer he had a fascination with sadistic pornography murder torture, torture, etc. But obviously, again, that's like circumstantial. There's nothing there that I don't know if it's circumstantial. But it's right. Like it doesn't relate him to her murder by any means. And that's when they stumbled upon something else.

Which was? On Stephen's digital camera. They found a video of Lauren's apartment from outside a window at night and she lived on the second story so the window was like up high on the second story and basically steven had taped his digital camera to a long stick and had filmed through her blinds from the ground he had walked through past her apartment with a digital camera and was taping inside her windows with the camera uh to see if she's home and that video is online also by the way very creepy like it's just like through the blinds you can see like camera moving around looking for what was going on to see if she was home um and again that was

the same night she wrote that email of like i feel like i'm being watched and i feel like someone's right maybe breaking into my apartment which like I'm being watched and I feel like someone's right. Maybe breaking into my apartment, which is just so unsettling and scary and like heart wrenching. Right. In April of 2014, which was almost three years since Lauren's murder, Stephen McDaniel finally admitted to murder. He says he stalked her, broke into her apartment in the middle of the night in gloves and a mask, entered her bedroom where he attacked her her and she fought back she managed to pull off his mask and see who he was but he overpowered her and strangled her to death then he cut the mask and gloves up into small pieces flushed them down the toilet dismembered her body placing the torso in the trash bins and the remainder in the law school

dumpster and the rest of her body has never been found despite them turning over an entire dump site like an entire right trash like they had volunteers flip entire trash sites and like they've never found any other remains jeez and steven was sentenced to life in prison he'll be eligible for parole in 2041 and lauren's mother this is kind of a quote from her that i read in an article. Pain keeps setting in more and more. I realize what people say about never being able to get over profound loss. You just sort of incorporate it into your very diminished life.

Of course, I think Lauren's in heaven. But to think of her on this white, fluffy cloud, it wouldn't be good enough for her. I talked to a priest friend of mine, and he said, she's not floating around. She's at a heavenly banquet. There's's a feast and there's lots of wine i try to visualize that because that is the lauren i want to remember and it's just like so yeah it's just awful it's really awful um and there is an update on this from august of this year so it turns out stephen mcdaniel decided he didn't get a fair trial. Oh, Jesus. Surprise. He decided he's going to use his own law degree, which worked so well in the past, to represent himself in an appeal. Fucking douche canoe.

Great. In February, he appealed saying he questioned the competence of his attorneys, who are apparently the best in the county, by the way. Sure. So good luck. He served as his own attorney but things did not quite go the way he hoped so this was like two months ago he subpoenaed his own attorneys as witnesses but rather than support his case that they didn't do a good job they instead revealed grisly new details of lauren's murder and dismemberment that he had told them like in

secret during the trial they're like yeah this is what happened he's like that's not what i wanted you to talk about oh god well you subpoenaed us and asked us to say what we knew right right so some of these details included how mcdaniel told his lawyers he carved off all of lauren's fingers and then flushed them down the toilet oh my god that's how he got rid of a lot of the evidence and so there is he's like shit this is not what i was planning for my appeal and the appeal is not yet over but things obviously are not looking good for him and it's more likely that steven mcdaniel will spend the rest of his life in prison for the death of lauren gettings right i mean we all hope so and it doesn't seem like he's doing a great job of defending himself defending himself and proving otherwise so that is the story of the murder of lauren gettings wow very horrible yeah to put it

lightly very very horrible um i do have a horror scope okay good i was wondering where we would get light-hearted again light-hearted light-hearted is uh yeah one way to put it i guess um so stephen mcdaniel was born septemberth, so he is a Virgo. Got it. And I'm going to read you the Virgo horoscope. I don't know many Virgos, so this is kind of new to me. My dad's a Virgo. Really?

I don't know if I know anyone who's a Virgo, like off the top of my head. Anyway, okay. Here we go. Dear Virgo, you're looking for something fresh to do or to inspire you. As the day advances, a desire for freedom from confining situations can take hold, particularly if you've recently been feeling too caged in. Yikes. The need for refreshment and improvement becomes clear, and it can relate to Stirring's first experience in September. But it's important not to go to extremes with today's somewhat volatile energies. It's best not to make commitments if you are not 100% behind them. Oh my. If you're ready for a huge fallout, then go ahead, spill it.

But if you keep it to yourself, you won't regret it. Oh. Yeesh. Well, good luck, Virgos. Good luck, Virgos. That's rough. You know what the best part about horoscopes is? Is by the time it comes out, sometimes that doesn't actually mean that, like, that horoscope is still, like, it's like a horoscope a week prior.

It's many weeks not relevant anymore but that's okay if only there was a way to look at horoscopes from like the week that like that it happened that it happened but then also that's kind of like dark as well yeah yeah i just feel like this is a better way to be like hey virgos here's your shot hey virgos we're mentioning you this week oh my god it's so fucked up anyway so that's the story of learn gettings and i remember first seeing it on dateline and being like that is a upsetting story oh and this fucking guy being like oh i could get away with the perfect murder it's like buddy go fuck yourself it's like you would think you would have learned his lesson once he like oh i'm so great i'm so great and then he was proven he's not that great. And he still thinks he's fucking great in jail. It's my lawyer's fault.

Fire them. I'll do it. Awful. Apparently he brought just a huge stack of like textbooks and like a cart of like textbooks and law documents. And then when they were actually questioning him, he took like five minutes to read through stuff. And they're like, you can't just like take five minutes to like go to the glossary and

try to figure out what to say next. Right. You have to be like in the yeah apparently yeah he's a fucker douche canoe wow well well thank you for listening to the horrible things that i just said yes and that's and that's for sure why all of us drink correct cheers to you all um thank you for listening to us and also uh just a reminder again that um our Facebook live for the month of November is November 18th.

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