And That's Why We Drink - E98 Exorcism Colonics and a Hot Sauce Love Potion

Episode Date: December 16, 2018

So sorry, everyone, we have to reschedule. We have a demonic assault penciled in for 3pm today. But in the meantime, Em brings us a movie report of the Vatican exorcist, Father Amorth, and how the director of the Exorcist (the film) witnessed his first real-life demonic possession. On the true crime side, Christine, hot off her jaguar-filled honeymoon, tells the tragic story of the death of Tina Watson, who died under suspicious circumstances while scuba diving in Australia on her own 2003 honeymoon. And lastly, get ready, because we're quitting the podcast game to become full-time bubble wrap salespeople… and that's why we drink! Please consider supporting the companies that support us!  Get 40% off your first Legacy Box order when you go to legacybox.com/drink For 40% off all Lola subscriptions, visit mylola.com and enter code DRINK40 Start your free wedding website or registry when you go to zola.com/drink Get your first Quip refill pack for free when you go to getquip.com/atwwd

Christmas time is here. I'm in the wrong key. Christmas time is here. There you go. Beautiful. Oh, so beautiful. Um, how was Belize? I just am jumping truly into this i believed you'd never ask oh my i can't believe you just fucking did that i know it's unbelievable right oh so did blaze make it back or did he stay there oh who's play oh oh right shit yeah i forgot did you replace him

with a jaguar yeah i left him in the jaguar jungle we're all dying to know about the jaguars i know i have some things to say say them so blaze was amazing um i did start the trip off weirdly i brought like a bunch of bags of donations because they do this like pack for a purpose thing where you can bring for like the local schools and animal shelters and stuff so i packed an entire of my like away suitcase of like uh just donations and dog bones and treats and i walked in and they were like what the hell i just brought like milk bone in bulk like costco size milk bones um but otherwise it was great the place we stayed at was amazing um very like low-key and local and like not super resorty if that makes sense and it was just so cool um we did indeed go on a Jaguar hike at night.

So does that, it sounds currently like you just hiked in the middle of the night and hoped you would run into a Jaguar by yourself. Correct. What? Yeah, it was. I was hoping you'd be like, no, no, no. That would be not smart. I'm saying yes, yes, yes. That would be not smart is what I'm saying.

So what happened? Yes. So we were yes, yes, yes. That would be not smart is what I'm saying. So what happened? Yes. So we were on this Jaguar hike and, you know, it's one thing to say, oh, we're going to go to a Jaguar preserve at night. It's another thing

when it's pitch black and you're in the middle of the jungle in the least populated country in Central America, wandering through a jungle preserve. Your tour guide

has literally holding out his umbrella like a weapon and teaching us what to do in the event that we run into a Jaguar. jungle preserve your tour guide has literally holding out his umbrella like a weapon and teaching us what to do in the event that we run into a jaguar and you're not you asked to walk into by the way i totally i didn't ask i fucking threw myself into it without even you're like yes here's my money it was about 14 seconds in when i realized i don't want to see a jaguar. And do they warn you like there's no like, do they warn you that you're paying money to see a live jaguar and they can't promise you won't get hurt? Absolutely not.

But is it implied? Oh, do they warn you? No. Should they? Yes. Okay. Do they tell you in the midst of the tour, how absolutely terribly dangerous it would be in the event that a jaguar appeared? They do do that. And it is too late to

do anything. So I am walking through this jungle. And it's very dark and very frightening. And it's only for it was blaze me an older couple, and this tour guide, who's, by the way, I'm going to tell you all about him. He was our tour guide. His name was Ems, E-M-S. Like more of me. Yeah. Like multiple me's.

So I had an Ems there. Oh, good. And he was great. And we're walking through there, and he's telling us how jaguars can be 160 pounds, how they are always watching when people enter the forest oh it's like they see you before you see yes he says they're in they they're hunting at night so they they see you they know you're in there so they pick the time

when they're hunting to take you out then there's also a day hike but i didn't want to do the safe one god forbid christine god forbid and so i'm on this fucking jaguar hike he's telling us all about these like fucking dangerous animals that and he says well you know they will attack but groups of a couple people probably they won't and i'm like not gonna ask the probability don't want to know and what size group are we talking about here so he goes so we need to stay in a pack and then we're walking and walking and he goes so what you do is you look for eyes like because we had headlamps on okay and we're looking for eyes so first thing we see at one point blaze just fucking like gasps and jumps and i'm like we're all gonna die oh my god if blaze is freaked out

we're all fucked yeah it's bad so we look over it's this massive tarantula so basically this is a spider hike there were we saw thousands of spiders everywhere and they have glowing eyes the wolf spiders well he said look for eyes glowing fucking wolf spiders everywhere um and then this fucking giant tarantula we saw monkeys and turtles and shit and so it was really cool but the whole time i'm like we're gonna die we're gonna die and then he's showing somebody um a spider or something and blaze and i are looking around because we're like on edge right he's fucking eyes and they're on the path and they're like a couple feet off the ground they're just walking past and i go and blaze and i i just we looked at

each other and we're like m's there's we just saw eyes and like i'm thinking he's gonna go okay we'll stay together no he fucking turns around he gets his umbrella up like this big ass umbrella and he's like stay right behind me don't move like stay close and i'm like what the fuck so he walks over and he's like checking the mud for prince and he's like oh i think it was just a rodent and i'm like okay and blaze and i were like i guess that's could be what it is um a rodent is this the princess bride you ruined my joke we know each other too well at least we're on the same page so jaguars of unusual size he's like yes so he's like well it's it's probably a rodent called the royal rat and we're like what the fuck oh my god it's called a gibnut a gibnut yeah and i guess it's a large rat

so i'm like okay so he calmed us down he's like it was just a gib nut they walk around they're nocturnal and jaguars eat them okay yeah so if you see a gib nut walking by and then you don't see his eyes in 10 feet yes a jaguar you're in trouble and you're next and you're next so we're like okay well it wasn't until today that i was like i should probably look one of those up that is not what we saw because that thing is like this big uh-huh it's like half a foot there's like a foot tall so he was like just trying to calm you guys yeah i think so but you were within proximity of a jaguar i don't know that it was a jaguar but it was definitely not a rat it was very much larger and so we were like you know what whatever move on and then it wasn't until afterwards where we

said hey ems what would have happened if we did see a jaguar? And he goes, oh, well, you need to stand very still. Put your arms up very large. I would have opened the umbrella and we would have had to stay there and like have a standoff. And we're like, why didn't you tell us this before the fucking tour? Like, can you imagine Ems like having dinner and then he's like, all right, honey, off to work. Like, who knows if I'm going to make it back or not? Really? honey off to work like who knows if i'm gonna make it back or not really and he actually said the scariest thing that ever happened to him on any tour was that um he was with a mother and her teenage son and a jaguar growled from like the darkness and he's like it growled and he's like

it's one thing to hear about it but to like experience it and he's like i've never been so scared in my whole life and he says he thinks what happened is they kind of interfered in like a mother child jaguar like being defensive of oh they were like in in its space but he because they probably wouldn't have growled if it was trying to eat them right um but he said it was probably the scariest thing that because you couldn't see it but it was like right there anyway so i did not catch a jaguar because i would have probably been eaten first oh my my gosh. But so I was going to say that I felt like I was in The Princess Bride. But I'm glad you got that. I also learned a lot of things.

I learned that I can stand up on a paddleboard for one eighth of a second before plummeting into the depths of the ocean. So that didn't last well. Let's see what else. Could Blaze stand up? Blaze did not try. Oh, why were you on a paddleboard by yourself? Because Blaze didn't want to do it with me he was on a kayak next to me oh okay he goes i need to be here in case i need to rescue you which rescue here grab the paddle christine

fair point and then i learned that blaze uh burned so easily that he loses his ability to function for 24 hours and didn't sleep for two nights because his sunburn was so bad that we almost had to go to the doctor, but we did not. I learned that I will never tire of pina coladas. I learned a lot about Mayan ruins. We went snorkeling.

We saw sea turtles, a nurse shark, stingrays, went climbing through a cave, and that's a lot of cool stuff. I just wanted to list off because I didn't want to get into everything. I mean, between sea turtles and sunburns, I don't know how it could get better and pina coladas don't forget all right who could but i did bring you some souvenirs obviously you did wow what a shocker i thought you were just bringing me your stories wait those are my souvenirs is that why you brought the blanket up no i'm just cold oh i was actually gonna say can

i borrow the blanket but then i didn't know if that was covering something no it's a heated blanket i mean you can borrow it it's okay i don't i can share it i'm more interested in the presents okay good so there's a variety of things oh i didn't really know what you know i love a variety i didn't know what order to give them should i close my eyes nah because i'm gonna give you a little description first so first now this one is something that i've always liked but i've never gotten one from an actual country where they make them um and this is just a little thing for when we're touring or beforehand okay um they're mayan worry dolls and do you know how these work i don't know how they work but i know about them. I've seen these many times.

Essentially, they're meant to take your worries, and I believe you place them under your pillow before, you know, and you kind of place your worries on them, and they're meant to take your anxieties and worries away. And I've bought them, like, in the U.S., but it's kind of cool to buy them from, like, locally made. Yeah. So they're little Mayan designs. Look at their little hands.

I know. They're super cute. Oh, I love this. So they're Mayan designed, so hands i know they're super cute oh so they're mine designed so for for touring yeah heck yeah um i said heck because i was like afraid to like curse in front of them they look very maternal i'm sure they yeah you don't want to offend the the mama worry dolls so many of them okay great thank you for, obviously, I didn't want to make you... So, here's the thing. What's happening? I was a little disappointed.

Me? No. Oh. At the entire nation of bullies. Oh, me too then. Yeah, they did not sell shirts with my hashtag, Christine Gets Bulliesed. I mean, it was probably just run out. Everyone's...

You know what? Everyone's just buying them left and right. You're right. Like hotcakes they sell. You're right. I right i forgive them so instead i had to go a different pun route okay i went okay so first this one says you better believe it that's so stupid um also i remember we had this conversation where you had once mentioned don't say it don't say it check Don't say it. Check me out. Shut the fuck up.

The shirt. No, they didn't have it. That's why I bought you that one. And I'd remembered, check me out from, and then I, when you had mentioned that when we first became friends and I said,

I own that shirt. Yeah. But I had like donated it or something from the Czech Republic. But since I was in Belize, I was like, well, I get Belize puns, but I couldn't just do one Belize pun.

So I also got this. Oh my God. What is this? Oh, it's a hat. hat you know i love a good hat unbeleizable yeah there's another goodness i can't can i wear them at the same time and still look cool you can only wear them only one way to find out you can only wear you cannot wear them separately now um this one okay so this actually courtesy of. I mean, it's not from Ems. Is it a jaguar? Is it a gibnut? It's Ems' dead body after he's eaten. Oh, is it an umbrella?

It's his umbrella. With a big claw scratched through it? Just in case. So Ems told us a story on one of our many tours. And he told us a story. He said, I want to tell you about the hottest woman in Belize. And I was like, tell me more. It's you, Christine. It's you. It's always been you. and he told us a story he said i want to tell you about the hottest woman in belize oh my goodness tell me more it's you christine it's you it's always been i knew it was me um and her name is

marie sharp oh so there's like she she is the hottest woman in belize because this is em's favorite joke she makes hot sauce oh my god so i don't know if you even eat drink eat hot sauce i have no idea i love hot okay good because this is belizean hot sauce and it is made by the famous marie sharp aka the hottest woman in belize and so i wanted to make alison a little jealous and i got you a gift from the hottest woman in belize listen here you go i can't wait to tell her all about this and then ultimately i just awesome Can I taste it now? Sure. It's very good.

You know how I went through a phase where I was really invested in learning all about tea? Yes. I also went through a phase of learning all about hot sauce. And I actually had an app on my phone where I was learning about different types of peppers. Really? And their Scoville scales and all that. Although the Scoville scale is, in my opinion a myth but well this one um actually is actually got so famous that it's sold in the u.s oh this smells like tabasco a little bit it's sold in the most insulting thing i could

say but it's sold under a different name because they wanted to americanize it so the american name is texas heat oh but um i don't know i didn't get a super spicy one because I really didn't know if you hate hot sauce. No, I love hot sauce. I'm not like, I'm not like a, like a giant risk taker. But no, like I, oh, it's got like an actual flavor to it. Habanero. Oh, I could drink this. This is very good.

And then finally, I got you a shirt. More? I got you a shirt that I thought you'd like in addition to all the stupid punny ones. I just got you a shirt that I was like, oh, I think I might like this like heathered look. Oh, you know I love a good heathered shirt. Christine. Wait, let me get that sticker off it. Oh, I won't look at it.

Well, I don't know what it is. Is it? Did you? It's gone. It fell off. Oh, you got me a size too big or something. And you were like, I don't think so. I think this is how you look.

I think this is how you look. I think you're bigger than normal. I only went to Belize to make you feel bad about your sizing. You look different since I've come back. You've plumped up. Anyway. I like it. You're right.

This is exactly a shirt I would wear. I figured it was better than the weird punny ones that I just forced upon you. I mean, I'll wear them all. All at the same time, hopefully. You're really good at shopping for me oh well you know I mean it was definitely limited uh limited opportunities it's not I mean a huge truly hot sauce is like actually like one of those gifts that like I'll always like I should have really gone more out with the hot sauce I didn't know well one of my favorite places is the hot sauce store in the grove oh my god I had no idea I love going there shit well next time

remember i told you one of my like dreams is to end up on hot ones that interview that's true yeah yeah and he sells his own stuff now and so i've been looking to try to find i truly don't think we'll be famous until we're on hot ones or at least me yeah because i would kill to try to eat all of those wings with him you'd be good at that that show. I almost texted Allison to be like, does Emmy hot sauce? And I just didn't. Well, I hope you like that one. Yeah, no, it tastes really good. There's a bunch of other ones.

So next time I go to Belize, I'll get those for you. Oh, good. I can't wait. But that's from the hottest woman in Belize, not me. Oh, well, only one. Listen, I've got the hottest girl in the world in one hand. Yep. And then I've got like a dozen little worry maids in my other yes and they're all gonna take care of you i've got a baker's dozen of ladies amongst me now that's right watch out allison um so how did you fare

how did everything did you miss me or were you just so happy no i was off your back for a week no i had a good time eva and i had a play date a little powwow and uh we actually went to the starbucks that we interviewed her at that is so it was a full circle that is so precious and um yeah we sat there for five hours holy crap did you just bitch about me the whole time? The entire time. And then a little bit on the phone when we left. You're like, I forgot some things I wanted to mention. It's like, oh, and another thing. Her name's actually Megan.

She just pretends it's not. No, I've actually been really preoccupied with moving in. Right. And so that was kind of 50% of what I've been doing all week, just running to the store left and right. But then also this was my first time that I was in charge of everything on the back end of the podcast. Cause usually Christine,

when I say she's the brains of the operation, I'm not kidding. I was just like deuces. She was like, figure it out. Peace out. It was very much like when my mom put me in Boston for an hour and then was like, okay, find me in Connecticut.

And then she got on a train and left. And I was like, how do I find my way to Connecticut? I mean, I did not have any fears that you would be able to. No. I was more nervous than I needed to be because I just usually Christine's so good at doing everything and I know that she

has a way like a certain. In my mind, you have a relationship with certain people. I think it's just that I it's not even that I'm good at anything. It's just that like I've just been doing it because we had such different schedules and stuff. And so it's just gotten to such a routine that it's just been me doing it. It's just part of the routine. I think I was afraid that I wasn't going to come off as professional as you in a lot of the emails. You just know how to word things properly. I'm like that I wasn't going to come off as professional as you in a lot of the emails. You just know how to word things properly.

And I'm like, I don't know. No, you're fine. Oh, my God, no. But it went really well. I felt it was a nice little power kick to my ego. Yeah, I showed up, and I was like, great. Back on track. Nothing caught fire, as far as I know.

And if it did, you didn't tell me, so I love it. If it did, I'll just blame Eva. It's fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's fine. That's what she's there for. That's what we do anyway. And also, we have a bunch of new shows that I didn't even know about until I got here

and was like, okay, cool. I'm flying to Salt Lake again. I don't know. We're doing all sorts of crazy shit. We're doing a whole bunch of stuff. So look at our... And that's where you drink.com slash live. It's pretty much up to date now.

And if you follow our instagram at wwd podcast that's where we announce them first with the links so check there um but yeah we're coming to a lot of cities and i'm so pumped to be truly going everywhere yeah vancouver oh yeah we announced canada i know how do you feel i you listen i the the second we i found out we were going to vancouver which by the way was it was a long time ago. Do you know how hard it was for me to not say something to everyone? I guess. And then people kept saying like writing into our DMs, like come to Canada. And I was like, why don't you love Canada? And you were like, I just was like, don't you pull that on me? Don't you think I'm not loyal?

I do where I wink slowly. Oh, I would have just been blinking for my entire life non-stop well um people kept commenting like oh my god is m freaking out right now and i'm like yo we knew about this like this is not like i freaked out months ago this is not like we don't know about it and then post it on instagram it's like we have been hiding this yeah we're hiding full of secrets all of us to be, we're hiding many shows from you, so you never know what we're thinking. We don't want to do it,

but we got to do it, so keep your eye out. And also, I have requested that I wear a Canadian flag as a cape on stage. Lol. Okay.

So we'll be... Do they have those same rules about what you can do with the flag? Probably not, that the U.S. has. I mean, I think if I'm wearing it

as a cape, it's the most respectful sign i can just don't like especially as an american right right i'm like i don't need an american flag fair fair yeah it'll be fucking great yeah i'm pretty stoked i met oh if i'll tell you i met several canadians in belize apparently they're all about it were all the people from belize and canada did they just whip they just switched yeah i guess so wow i didn't know it was that season cold up there so it makes sense they're migrating but i will say uh i felt a little bit like i was being like i was part of the truman show because really both canadian men that i met oh brought maple syrup no No, like literally.

That's the most stereotypical Canadian I've ever heard of. I felt like a staff writer was out sick and so they hired some person off the street to write a script. Be Canadian and he just pulls a vial of syrup out. I just kind of felt like someone was writing a script of

what would happen if Christine met two Canadians? And we were at breakfast. In the jungle. In a fucking jungle. And I swear to God, this guy like fucking pulled out a thing of maple syrup. Like out of his sleeve? He had it.

And then the one guy brought it in his luggage, like several, and gave it to the staff. And they were like, like for, to put on his food. I was like, what is this? I thought you meant as a tip. I was like what is this i thought you meant as a tip i was like that's the sign oh it was like to cook with because he was like i didn't trust that they had good maple syrup and then another guy like kind of yelled at a server not yelled canadian yelled was like a little so crying apologized a little mean at all rude to the server like what's in this maple syrup and she was like i don't know really like foodies about it like a

local and he's like well you know i'm from canada where we make syrup and she was like i don't know really like foodies about it like a local and he's like well you know i'm from canada where we make syrup and she was like okay like and he's like let me tell you about it and she was like clearly had to work and he's like so what we do is we tap the tree and i was like this can't be real this cannot be real most can i think that's the most like canadian thing i've ever heard it was wild m and i went through a cave i went through the mayan underworld is what they the mayans believed that this cave was like an entrance into the underworld went through the mayan underworld with a canadian and i felt like this is a weird it's me in the apocalypse is what it was yeah i was like em would really appreciate this yeah except the parts where i had to climb like a 30 foot rock wall also something i will never do oh it was really cool but if alice and

i got married and she said I need my honeymoon to be us climbing up a 30-foot wall or we're not going to get married at all, I'd be like, see ya. Great. I have 12 Mayan doll ladies ready. Don't worry. I have a hat that says Unbeliezable. I think I'm taken care of. The hottest lady in Belize will be right there

waiting for me. At the bottom of the rock. Okay. We've talked quite a bit bit don't you miss the good old days where we did this constantly guys we have gone back to our old ways because we used to talk for hours and hours and hours before we recorded yeah and then we got into this groove between traveling and seeing each other every single other day right we never had anything to catch up on right and i haven't seen christine in like a whole 10 days like what are we gonna do we've oh we're gonna tour for four months and then hate each other again good but we haven't i don't even think we've been we weren't even speaking though like it

wasn't even like yeah we were texting christine didn't have internet so it was very crazy i i missed this feeling i know i missed you a lot i oh i haven't been in like a scenario where i one haven't been able to talk to you and two haven't seen you for more than like I mean it's I'm used to like speaking to you every couple hours yeah or something so to go 10 10 days I'm like if something like

occurs to me I can just tell you whereas yeah I'd be like I can't tell I mean we missed so much we missed our half birthdays that's right oh how sad the first thing I texted Christine was I landed in Atlanta and it was like, happy half birthday. And I was like, shit, I missed yours. It was yesterday.

It's okay. I'm a little peeved that nobody else wished us happy half birthday. Oh, I mentioned it on Twitter. Don't worry. Oh, thank God. They got to talk him too. Thank God. Anyway.

Moving on. Here, after what seems like an era of speaking about nothing about true crime or ghost um i will tell you a story now great can't wait is that how i should start i think that's how we usually it's the most natural i will start a story yeah i will start it now um okay well i will say um this is very much a book report. Love book reports. A la M. Schultz. We are going back in the day. We really are.

So this isn't, I don't know. I always try to preface it and then don't really know where I'm going with it. Very Michael Scott of I hope I just find the words along the way. So I'm just going to say I watched this documentary about the devil. Oh! And then lighted so much I'm just going to report about that. So like a, not a book report,

but like a, like a, like a movie report. So like a book report, like I'm basically going to narrate the whole documentary to you so you don't have to watch it. So here's my dramatic reading play by play. Got it.

Basically like a book report of like gone with the wind where actually you just went and watched the movie and then pretended you read the book. Yeah. Okay. Got it. Got it. Got it. So this is is the the it's on netflix um 46 on rotten tomatoes wow a winner a winner so it's a green splat right and it's called um the devil and father amort father amort it's spelled like a morph okay okay um but amort and cool italian

so and father, right? And. And. Ampersand. Ampersand. Yeah, the devil is not inside of him. They are amongst each other. Oh, good.

Yes. So this is super interesting because this was directed by the same person who directed The Exorcist. Oh, shit. Okay. directed um the exorcist oh shit okay and basically he was the director of the exorcist um but he had never actually witnessed an exorcism so obviously he was like the perfect candidate for the director spot of the exorcist lol um but so no my vision is he's like no i have a feeling i just have a vision of how it's supposed to go well so he um he wrote filmed shot and narrated this this was just like a one-person crew okay this whole movie oh shit okay um hence the 46 on random

sorry that's rude so and basically this was the documentary where he since he had never witnessed an exorcism before this is him witnessing a real exorcism. Oh, shut up. Okay. So it's still interesting, regardless of the percentage on Rotten Tomatoes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So exorcisms, fun fact, and this truly is a play-by-play of the movie. You can, between this and a vulture interview,

you can get all of this information. So if you were to watch this movie and be like, oh yeah, this is eerily accurate to the telling of and that's why we drink i see it's because as i was watching this i was taking notes got it so in like total chronology this is like cool play by play but i did think this was a fun fact that he started the fuck that's like to calm down that's like californians like taking a like herb supplements or something like what the fuck so wait what about herbs what are you talking about like how often like i'm trying to think of like a percentage of like californians or like, like, I don't know, people doing something.

Oh, that's millions. Oh, right. Okay. Sorry. That's why we were confused. Tell them about Kale in California. We're all screwed. What about, like, colonics?

I don't know. Sure. Okay. That might be more like it. Colonics and exorcisms. Yes. Yes. They're the same.

The ratio is equal. Yes. Yes. So the person being exorcised in this movie her name is christina um although i think in real life her name is rosa because in different interviews she was rosa that's the name of my guardian angel remember oh great so between the two of you you're both being exercised i mean you know it seems like everyone in italy is anyway so can't complain um so she is 46 and she is said to be possessed by the devil.

Oh, good. And the exorcist is Father Amort. Um, he is the exorcist for the Diocese of Rome and has been for 31 years. He is the exorcist? The exorcist. Wow. I didn't know that they had. Like the Vatican exorcist. I didn't know that was a thing.

He has already exorcised Christina eight times. Oh, come on. So this movie is the viewing of him exercising her for a ninth time. I mean, they need to replace him if he's not getting the job done. I mean, apparently that's actually like, oh, like, trust me, there's a whole history to this. Did I hit a sore spot there? No, you just hit a bullet point that I'm going to get to. Oops. So you stole my princess bride joke. So I'm'm gonna steal this weird fun fact about exorcism so the exorcist movie came from a screenplay oh this is also a fun fact but i wanted to bring it up it's just a large fun fact so the it's a large fun there's a lot to unpack

here not a kid so the exorcist movie um actually came from a screenplay written by a guy named william bladdy okay and he william bladdy wrote the script for the exorcist when he was at georgetown in the 70s and he was in class and heard um the case of an actual exorcism that happened up in maryland okay i didn't know that did your phone just ring no i thought a cat meowed. What the hell? That was weird. Okay, this is already freaking me out. I don't like it. So, um, okay, so he wrote the screenplay while he was in Georgetown because he was, like, inspired by this story he heard of in Maryland. Right.

Of an actual exorcism that happened. And that actual exorcism that he had been learning about in class was the exorcism in 1949 of Roland Doe slash Robertbert manheim which i've covered before um so if you want to go listen to us talk about roland doe aka the inspiration for the exorcist you can travel back to episode 23 and you can also hear me drooling and blacking out because that is the episode of allison's first. Oh, for God's sakes. And everyone has made a lot of comments about how they could tell that I had just met her and...

Yeah, that comment was me because I had to edit six hours of footage. Aww. Never forgive you two for that. It's okay. It's okay. But if you want to listen to me, like, shamelessly, like, ogling Christine's college roommate and talk about the inspiration of the exorcist who knew you could do both but i can only on this show do we offer double entertainment

so um yeah so william blotty wrote the screenplay after hearing about that story and when he was writing the script he actually was able to track down the original exorcist in roland doe's case and his name was father william bowder okay and father bowder and other priests who worked with the family vowed confidentiality on the case so bowder was not actually allowed to say much when he was being interviewed for this story um and this is a quote from the documentary i just saw because the guy that wrote the screenplay for exorcist was interviewed okay and he said oh i was trying to i was looking at all of my information and i was able to track down the original priest for that case that inspired me and so he tried to interview the priest but the priest was like there's all this confidentiality i can't talk about it okay

and father bowder told the guy that wrote the screenplay and this is a quote one thing i can tell you that case was the real thing. I had no doubt about it then, and I have no doubt about it now. Shit. So, since 1949, this has been going on. Okay. As far as we know. It's probably been since the beginning of time.

Yeah, I was going to say, maybe. That was, yeah, it's a fun fact. Large fun fact. Large fun fact. So, before meeting with Amort and Christina, I'm just going to start calling him William, but he's the guy that directed The Exorcist and is now making this movie. Okay. There was, like, several Williams, so I felt like I had to say a lot of last names in that,

but this is the only William we're going to hear about from now on. Okay, okay. So, his name was William Friedkin. So, wait, is he the same one who did the... Yeah, he's the one that directed The Exorcist. Oh, but another guy named William wrote the screenplay? Yeah, two Williams. Oh, okay, got it, got it, got it.

One directed, one wrote the screenplay. So this is the one who directed it. Yes. Okay. So the one who directed The Exorcist, his name was William Friedkin, and he also is narrating and doing everything for this movie. Okay. Okay.

So before meeting with Amort and Christina, William interviewed a brother and sister duo named Paolo and Nadia. Okay. They had actually been exercised in the past by Amort. And it happened 10 years ago when Nadia was in church and during mass, she had a quote demonic attack. Oh, dear. Where she showed several signs of possession, and the brother and sister, Nadia and Paolo, are being interviewed at different times, but they're kind of cutting in, and, like, you hear both of their interviews separately. So you hear, like, his side of it,

and then you hear her side of it. Got it, got it, got it. They're, like, spliced? Yeah. Okay. But this is, like, this is a combination of their stories. Got it, got it. During mass, she had a demonic attack

and showed signs of possession, including guttural screaming, convulsions. I don't know what this means, but slithering on the floor. She was able to fight off several grown men. She spoke a strange language and her stomach was so swollen, it looked like it was going to burst. Oh, my God. And then her brother said, quote, her body began to transform into something that was not human. Ugh. So Apollo took his sister to a morgue

and after eight months of exorcism, she was liberated. Do you know what year that was? Um, probably in the 90s. Okay, okay. So like recently. Yeah. Either the late 90s or early 2000s damn yeah i wish someone had a flip phone camera i want to see proof of this slithering well

apparently um someone called the cops because she was screaming so loud and acting so weird yeah i would have called the cops too um so he brought his sister to amort to be exercised and father amort said since you're in the room with me while I'm exercising her, for like the last eight months this has been going on. But in this experience where she was actually free from the devil, Father Amort thought, oh, the spirit might have left her body and gone into yours since you're in here. So how about I exercise you too? So he got a quick 15 minute exorcism. That is so weird. Like, I guess just like a checkup to make sure that like there was no devil inside of him oh god and so when he was cleared father amort said to him compared to what i usually deal with you're bursting with health

so instead of bursting with the demonic in your stomach or whatever was happening to her okay got it got it got it bursting with health bursting with health cool so paulo actually was so grateful to him for saving his sister that he became friends with uh father more and actually became his assistant during other exorcisms he also started i guess paying more attention to other people to see if they were possessed so he could bring them in oh okay okay this is starting to sound a little cultish so So, well, apparently anytime Father Amor thought that somebody might have, like, show signs like that extreme in church, he would have them meet with him just to check in. And so Paolo said that he was actually the one who found Christina and thought she might be possessed because she was screaming and squirming in pain in a church service during Eucharist. So she just like out of nowhere just started reacting.

I think these people need to see a doctor. You get there. Okay. Okay. This is alarming. So she, apparently during Eucharist, she was like screaming in pain and just like fell to the ground, started squirming around. So that was the first group of people that he interviewed before he actually witnessed the exorcism so the way that they actually met william and father

amort is that william has known of him um as the vatican exorcist and he's also known as the exorcist for the diocese of rome and he's founded the international association of exorcists so he's well known in the world of exorcism. Yeah, he's highfalutin. And William found out that Amort actually enjoyed The Exorcist because he said that that movie helped people understand his work. And so when William went to Rome, he actually contacted a mutual friend to see if they could meet. And when they met, they, like, really connected, and he asked if he could interview Father Amort.

And during the interview, he asked if he would be able to witness an exorcism, which has never been granted before unless you're immediate family. But he, like, just gave it a shot. Hashtag win in Rome. Did you write that in your notes? Yep. Even better. Did you write that in your notes?

Yep. Even better. So Amort said that he wasn't sure. He had to, like, think about it and, like, go to, I guess, talk to the rest of the church. But I guess because he had, like, this, like, hierarchy of, like, he worked on the exorcist and had some notoriety. Oh, William. Yeah. Yeah.

So Father Amort was like, let me think about it. I'm not sure. And then later, a couple days later, William got an email that said on May 1st, Father Amor will be doing an exorcism at 3 p.m. in the afternoon and you're invited to come. Jeez. And so he went even further and pushed the limit even further and said, can I film it? I was seeing that coming. Win in Rome again. And the email said, you can film it, but I'm telling you I'm not in favor of this. No crew, no lights. So basically he was allowed to come if he did not. Like stage it.

Like production. Or just like don't disturb the process. Gotta get it. Like you can come with one camera with yourself. But like if you get in the way of an exorcism, like we don't want you here. Okay. with yourself but like if you get in the way of an exorcism like we don't want you here okay so in may 2016 was the exorcism the ninth exorcism of christina okay and there's some footage of her beforehand and in interviews like really quick like on the fly interviews that william had with

her she looked really healthy and normal and responsive and did not look possessed at all and so the whole time i was watching this i was like this girl's not possessed right and she says that she was in denial for a long time that she was possessed but eventually asked for help um she said that doctors were not able to help her and she thinks it's because she has a spiritual disease and her symptoms show most and most violently on dates related to jesus like palm sunday easter christmas okay so she says that she has gone to doctors um but they weren't said i'm sick on palms cough it's christmas what are you doing okay so father mort explained in a separate interview that demonic assaults because in my mind i was like okay well she doesn't look possessed because

she's not like constantly she doesn't look like a possessed person not slithering right right so father mort actually does like break down like the barriers really well and explains like what an exorcism actually looks like and what possession actually looks like and he says that demonic assaults are not like how you see it in the movies they're internal assaults they don't you don't look like you're like scratched up and, you know, changing before someone's very eyes. Like your head's turning 180. Yeah. You just, it's more like it's happening inside of you and you can like, it's not as crystal clear visually.

Okay. And also when you hear like a demonic assault or demonic attack, you think like, oh, all of a sudden someone got scratched or burned or someone got hurt. But it's like an assault from within like a spiritual assault spiritual assault but then what about that girl paula who is like or nadia sorry who is like squirming around on the ground and screaming and yeah they were saying that she was like transforming but i don't know if that was like she was just bending weird i'm not really sure but so that's very physical yeah i think it happens from within though like something's pushing her arms around. I don't... I'm not really sure.

But you're saying, so it doesn't have to be that way? It doesn't have to be that way. Or sometimes that way? Okay. It's, like, it's not as black and white as it usually is in movies. So it can be just internally. Yeah. It can be, like, your body, like, looking...

Like, being in weird positions and stuff like that. But it's not always a guarantee. I think usually the stigma is, like, oh, well, if you're not, like... Screaming in Latin or something. Like, hanging upside down on like oh well if you're not like screaming in latin or something hanging upside down on the ceiling then you're not in trouble right right right but that surprised me that he liked the exorcist then because i feel like that's the exact message of the exorcist yeah well he said that he did not like it for um how oh for its realism he said that it okay good he said like it's not accurate but at least people knew what an exorcist was attention to the okay to his field, for lack of a better term. Yeah, for his industry.

It boosts the ratings of his market. The visibility, you know. So he said that demonic assaults are usually internal assaults. They don't always happen physically. And they also only ever happen when provoked, like in an exorcism. But in movies where it looks like people are just being possessed non-stop that happens very very rarely sometimes if you're not being provoked in a religious setting um a demonic assault will happen but go weeks or months in between one

another so you could have a demonic assault and then in like 10 months have another one but it would be latent and you wouldn't know about it. Right. Um, otherwise. And he, he said even rarer than that, do they happen on their own on a constant basis where you are nothing but

entirely possessed. And he said, that's only happened like one or two times in his whole career since the fifties. Oh, wow. Okay. AKA he's basically saying that possession is a stereo.

The, what we think is a stereotype. And it's ironic that William is the one learning this in the documentary because he's actually the one that created the stereotype because totally he, and there was a whole part in his vulture interview where he said that, where he was like, I'm very aware of the, like,

like he tried to show footage of the exorcism later to psychiatrists and they were trying to debunk it. And they were like, well, it doesn't have any of the classical symptoms of possession oh he showed the he showed psychiatrists later like i'll explain the exorcism oh i thought you meant the movie the exorcist no no no no no the footage that he got from this got it got it got it got it he shows psychiatrists that footage and

they're like well it's not really a possession it doesn't look like there are any classical symptoms and he was like well what classical symptoms would it take for you to believe? And they were like, you know, like levitating and head spinning. And then he had to look them in the eyes and be like, I'm the one that created that. Psychiatrists believe that you can levitate and head spin. They're saying, yeah, that was like one of their like things of like, it doesn't look like a possession. She could just be growling. Like, like, give me something extreme to tell me that there's nothing medical about this.

Oh, I see. I thought you were saying... Okay, okay, okay. I get it. I'm sorry. No, you're fine. They were debunking it because it wasn't... It's like this isn't a possession. There's no classic symptoms. I see. This doesn't look like a textbook possession. Okay. I thought you were saying they they're gonna diagnose it if she

was levitating no i don't think they really they're saying like look at her she doesn't look like she's possessed i mean like go look at a movie she's not possessed sure and then he was like i'm the one that created that movie like the reason you have that stigma and you're calling that a textbook possession is because i put that image in your brain got it so he wrote he talked about that in his interview that's really interesting though yeah so he was like i feel bad because people aren't taking this seriously because of the stereotype i created sure so it's very interesting that he's learning what an exorcism is after creating a classic what people think an exorcism is right yeah okay got it so i think he feels a little guilt

he's like ruined the idea for everyone i'm sure his bank account does not feel any guilt so i'm sure i'm sure he's okay i'm sure he'll be just fine so um he also father amort also explains that although the assaults on christina are only happening when provoked that doesn't mean that she's not under like constant like stress psychologically because like the exorcism takes such a toll on her when they do them that she's trying to recover non-stop so she's always tired so even if it doesn't look like someone is possessed they're still probably really weak okay so um william asks father amort in the initial interview have you ever seen satan and uh father amort this is a quote from i think the one of the interviews not from the documentary i think this is from like one of the interviews that i read um father mort responds to that of have you ever seen satan by saying satan is just a pure spirit he often appears as something else to mislead you he's appeared to people as jesus

and he's appeared to people as raging animals and the ritual of exorcism is not practiced by an ordinary priest you have to go through a lot of training and his prayers often cause his prayers as the exorcist often cause a violent response in the victim and so people need to be prepared for that oh my god and also like you don't know what you're gonna see because he could show up as anyone so basically satan is a shapeshifter that kind of gave me some chills that i was not expecting that he appears as jesus that really freaked me out i mean like if you can appear as jesus you can appear as anything that's really frightening to me like, if you can appear as Jesus, you can appear as anything. That's really frightening to me. Like, even if you see Jesus,

how do you know if you're safe? It's really, yeah, it's, like, really the ultimate. And he came to, like, a high-up priest as Jesus, too. So, like, even... Ugh, that gives me, like, really big, creepy chills. So, um, he was also asked, like, do they seek mental help before they ever come to you? And Father Amort has a very specific and very outlined strict set of rules

of all the amount of medicine and psychiatry someone has to go through before their last case scenario is him. And yet 500,000 people are being exercised? Yeah. Not through him, but if you want to be exercised by the Vatican exorc, like then you have to go through quite a series of things to be approved. Okay. And he said out of 100 people who seek my help, one or two maybe are possessed. I was going to say, I bet you it's not very common.

No, I think 500,000 are getting an exorcism when maybe like five of them need it. Okay, okay, got it, got it, got it. So then, I mean, you're going to get into why she needed it so many times. Yeah. Okay. And here it is. Because as with traditional therapy, the stigma is that one exorcism means one long-winded experience

until the devil is gone. But since it is a version of mental help and spiritual help, it is seen to him as a therapy. And so it isn't just one one experience or one event the patient usually isn't quote cured until after several sessions i see so there was he says that the longest exorcism series he ever had to do was on a man for over 16 years huh what yeah um so he says that it's it's not uncommon for an exorcism to last up to a year with like you go like once a week or once a month and you just keep going until it's done but apparently the first are always worse and then slowly gets better and better and then

eventually it's how do you know nothing's attached to you anymore. Because when he, I don't know what the right word is, but when he starts saying certain parts of the Bible, I'm totally going to butcher it because I'm not very religious, but there are certain things that he's supposed to say in his rituals. And apparently in like the code of exorcism, if someone is reacting to these certain things, then that's how you know that they're affected. I see. Okay. He does, I think I wrote it down somewhere. So there's like trigger phrases or like verses or something. to these certain things then that's how you know that they're affected i see okay he does i think i wrote it down somewhere so there's like trigger phrases or like verses there's trigger phrases

that like if there is a demon within you they can't they can't hold back from reacting to it okay um and so he'll usually say like in his like like if he's starting out with someone he will test those words immediately or those phrases immediately to see if they reacted on. If they don't, he usually just says, okay, well, you're not possessed. You just need help elsewhere. Sure. Okay. So only 20 minutes into the movie, they jump into it really quick. They film his, the actual exorcism. Oh my. And it's very good to see it. Yeah. Okay. And I'm going to show you a bit too. Oh boy. It was very jarring to watch this because this whole thing really unpacked my like stereotype of what i imagined an exorcism was

right but i mean it's happening in a random office room in daylight like it's like not i imagine it like it's already sounds off yeah i always imagined it in like some dark bedroom a bedroom like thunderstorms outside and nobody can get in because the whole place looks like it's in disrepair the crucifixes are turning on the wall yeah it was literally like going into like a doctor's office and you're just sitting in an office wow and it's a daylight like the windows are wide open right very weird but it actually kind of makes sense because from that email that william got being approved to come in, the email did say that they're doing an exorcism at 3 p.m., which is the witching hour every 12 hours at 3.

I thought it was at 3 a.m. It's if you... 12 hours. Does it matter? No, if it's 3, it's 3. 3 p.m. too? Yeah. But it's just because it's 3 a.m.

It's spookier and scarier and the moon's out. That explains why I'm always awake at 3 p.m. It always makes sense. Holy shit. My stepmom always said if it's 3 o'clock, it's just the witching hour. Fantastic. Great, now there's two of them. Didn't fucking know that.

Bullshit. So at 3 p.m., though, it makes sense that even if it's like daylight and shit, it's still the day witching hour. The most provoking time. if it's like daylight and shit it's still the day witching the most provoking time and so christina is sitting in a red chair and her family and her priests are all around her chanting and praying her family and her priests and during this is this is what i thought was kind of adorable because keep in mind father i'm ward at this point is in his 90s oh shit and he's like he's been doing this for a long time and he's still kind of like goofy and funny about it like he's just done so many like exorcisms he's like why not laugh it through and which is like quite a job to just laugh at jesus but apparently in every it's his tradition

that in the opening prayer of a possession he'll stick his thumb on his nose and wiggle his fingers like he's making fun of the demon inside of the body uh to like provoke it okay so he like does this like as like a haha i'm gonna get you jesus christ okay so as i'm whispering jesus over and over again i'm sure this is really great so this is where it gets it gets weird like pretty quickly like within like 10 minutes okay so um after everyone starts praying amore puts his hand on her head on christina's head and begins to try to cast the devil out and a bunch of i i can't i can't understand because it's in italian and they really did only translate like basic parts of it okay because they're definitely talking longer than it would take to read the subtitles oh i see what you're saying i don't know what was being said

except the the subtitle right because you're saying. I don't know what was being said except the subtitle. Right, because you're watching it happen. Right. Okay. So he's trying to cast the devil out, and other priests are praying nearby, and she quickly falls into a trance where she begins bobbing her head.

Oh, God. And she's bobbing it more and more aggressively. Kind of think like you're listening to metal and trying to find a rhythm. You're like... You know me. I know you listen to metal. And can to find a rhythm you're like you know me i know you listen to metal and can't find the rhythm that sounds about right uh one of those things are true which one is it um both so and i also at this point thought i heard a buzzing in the

movie but i like kind of thought that i was just thinking things up and then later i actually read it in an interview when they were describing it they were like you can hear a buzzing at this point and i was like oh yeah you heard that i heard it and i was not they didn't mention it at all but like i thought i heard like it sounded like a like a horde of flies right so i thought that was kind of cool that is weird that's creepy um when he said when he oh when he said leave leave her in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, she starts screaming, stop it, and begins flailing, and people have to hold her down. They don't have to hold her down for too long, which kind of freaked me out that she was going in and out of these demonic attacks and people didn't feel the need to hold her down. Oh, God.

But she did constantly bob her head, and I guess that was how they knew she wasn't herself. guess that was how they knew she like wasn't herself so she constantly bobbed her head and she just started screaming every now and then and a couple minutes in she begins screaming and the voice actually sounds distorted uh i don't enjoy that and it was a like and it was distorted in a way where like even it was so gradual that i kind of noticed it and i was like that's there's no way that did that happen and then in my mind obviously i'm thinking like okay like they manipulated this in post or whatever but they he did record himself showing someone the lot like walking out of that room going into another room and showing a psychiatrist this footage and like you can hear it on the camera that the voice is happening okay so but you said it was subtle like couldn't you just get well because it gets worse oh so originally i was like maybe that was just

a lower pitch maybe she's just trying to like growl and it's definitely getting worse and worse and then at this point i started because it was happening really fast i didn't want to keep pausing to type notes so i'm just typing as i'm watching this this is my my jerk reaction as i'm typing so i'm just gonna read whatever i was writing i wrote super creepy voice is getting deeper definitely happening people have to hold her down again she's fighting off three to four men uh she begins screaming she belongs to us send the priest away i can't stand it she belongs to me voice distorted the whole time she's saying i am satan stop this uh i can hear growling and screaming it's becoming more distorted fighting off five men now um when amort said get out

christina distortedly screams never several times while trying to fight off men and then i wrote okay the screams are for sure demonic now and then then I wrote, she's really trying to fight them off. She doesn't look how I imagined. She's not smiling or laughing. She just looks like she has a bad stomach ache. And then. Oh, like smiling like demonically. I thought she would be doing something creepy, but she just looked like she was in pain.

Okay. And then these were actual quotes. So when they tried to hold her down, a voice from deep within her screamed, don't touch her. Don't ever touch her oh um then she says oh and then he says i command you to leave her and she screams i am satan and then he says how many are there and she says we are legion we are armies oh fuck no and then i wrote in caps lock absolutely not her voice anymore. And then, um, seriously. Yeah. And then he said, when are you going to leave? And she said, never.

She is mine. She belongs to me. And then when father and warts had set her free, my response was absolute demon screams. Uh, do you want to hear some of it? I don't know. I guess we probably can't play it on the show no we can't but this is for you to give a reaction yeah i didn't love that yeah no it's pretty it's pretty wild and so now you know what i'm saying but like the voice like just it was kind

of subtle at first and then by the end it's's like, that's definitely not her voice. It's definitely, um, hmm. It sounds kind of like low, like multiple people screaming. Yeah, it sounds like everyone's screaming in unison or something. Yeah, it's very weird. But, um, but yeah, so it's super creepy. Yeah, I don't like, I wouldn't watch that alone. But so then, now that you know, like, what that looked like, then then he literally so then father amort just taps her on the forehead and she just comes back oh like she's totally fine and then he literally

said he literally says like do you need anything to drink how are you doing like just like let's take a break like call five let me get a sprite yeah and so he was like are you doing okay thanks priest and then that was and that was the end of her ninth exorcism it just didn't work it just didn't work like it just didn't work? Like, she wasn't liberated. Like, she has to go back now for a tenth one. Oh, you're saying. Oh, I see.

So that was just like, okay, pause. We'll come back to this, basically. Yeah. I see. Which is weird, because I always thought an exorcism was like, you do it until you don't have to anymore. Well, that's why when you said the eight month, when I thought you meant like for eight months she's laying in a bed.

I was like, holy. When I first watched it and it said it took her eight months i was like oh my god did they just have like nuns around the clock like well because that happened in one of your stories and i remember it yeah being kind of like child abuse because they were just chaining her to a bed and i was like this is more true crime than anything but i guess it's different if they're not actually like yeah keeping her hostage for that long well so anyway so they just called it quits so the whole exorcism lasted like 15 minutes and then and then they said okay we'll try again later and so amort actually tells her you see him do this but you tell her you tell amort telling you see him but

jesus christ you see amort wait let me tap you on the forehead real quick. You see a more telling Christina what she did while she was in her trance, and she just laughs it off. Okay. It's like... Oh my God, you wouldn't believe how... It's like when people talk about... When you're drunk, like how drunk you are. You blacked out and you fell on the sidewalk.

Did you know that you started screaming about Satan? Oh my God. It's like the legions were screaming inside you. It so wild you're so embarrassing but you're so funny and then you snapchatted your ex oh my god can you believe it which is worse who knows so the day after the uh the day of the exorcism fun fact was also um amort's 91st birthday oh happy birthday to you right after the exorcism everyone is just like happily singing happy birthday to him in the room and like give him a cake and then you hear like no she's just like hanging out with everyone it's like it's so weird you can just like turn it off

and on apparently well m showed me the video and uh this christina's boyfriend is just chilling next to her like restraining her while the demons scream can you imagine dating someone that's a well i was saying to em it's either like whether it's a demonic possession for real b uh she's faking it c mental illness like it doesn't look good like no matter what nothing's good no matter what it's there's trouble there's a problem happening here yes for the relationship i would imagine i mean i would at least be like a little nervous if it's demonic possession. I'd be nervous that I would like to sleep next to her. Yeah. Yeah. At the end of the session, the family asks him or to bless her father and her mother.

And Christina immediately starts screaming demonically again, especially when her mother is getting blessed. And her boyfriend had to hold her down the whole time, which you just paraphrased all that. So sorry. No, you're good. This was the most violent and angry she got during the entire day during the blessings during the blessings how crazy how crazy also i imagine it's like almost like playing on like you know like a mother's

love like if something's happening to your mom yeah plus hearing like religious things that like you can't hear else your like body will reject it spiritually yeah yeah i don't know i don't know if it's going to come on like i don't know if this is how it works but like if you're thinking like parasitically like how it would it would find other hosts or something maybe like it's preventing the closest people to her from being open hosts i don't know that's probably it i've decided you know so after the exorcism william showed the footage to some of the truly the world's leading neurosurgeons researchers and psychiatrists many of them were editors of the dsm-4 and the dsm-5 really the head of the columbia school of psychiatry and the head of the new york

psychiatric psychiatric association damn um so he showed all of them the footage um and their best guesses where they admit they were best guesses are agitated delirium or a tumor in her brain well i see i have to be fair though it has to be a best guess because they're right scientific they can't be like oh yes here is a diagnosis without actually it's a demon it's a demon well but i'm saying they can't say oh it's schizophrenia like right they have to say it's a guess because i can't diagnose her from there. Well, they went through, like, every sort of disorder they could imagine. They're like, none of them would come with that voice, first of all. And none of them would come with the picked agitated delirium because of how much she was moving around and squirming and trying to fight off people.

So they had no explanation. And they even said, best case scenario. This was from the psychiatrist at Columbia. Best case scenario or best guess, best, I guess, estimate of what this could be. She fits into the pattern of what is called dissociative trance and possession disorder. Oh. Which. I was actually going to ask you if that's a thing.

Yeah. Because I imagine it would. It's basically like, I think it just kind of... It's a placeholder for... We don't know what this is yet, but in the future we might. But it currently looks like what a pathology for possession would be. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of what I was wondering if that was an actual diagnosis. That was their best guess.

Interesting. Okay. So they even say, like, she is currently expressing a pathology that in today's world we understand as possession, but that's because we don't know more. Got it. Okay. One day in the future, it may not. They'll laugh at us that we thought it was possession.

An explanation or something. Right. Okay. So as for the voice, everyone was freaked out and had no explanation across the board. It couldn't even be like just you're screaming so much that you're like. I mean, maybe if he took it's like a vocal coach if i was so hysterical i could probably get that loud fucking like raspy and crazy i don't i mean i don't know i also don't know what her voice sounds like normally but she said it was pretty

high pitch right i don't know so who knows i mean i'm not the person to well after the exorcism christina agreed to meet with william again to check in before like as like an update i don't know if i'd want to meet one-on to check in before, like, as like an update. I don't know if I'd want to meet one on one. I'd be like, yeah, not after what I saw. Well, apparently she was having more and more demonic assaults and they were showing up even in just scheduling for this meeting. Can you imagine being like, I can't make it. I have a demonic assault. Not at 3 p.m.

You know I'm busy at that time. p.m you know i'm busy at that time she apparently kept changing the date time location multiple times not sounding like herself and at times where she did she wouldn't remember that they had talked at all oh so it was like fucking with her like i don't want to be yeah oh creepy so she would get really excited that she was going to see them and then like a couple minutes later call them really angrily saying she wanted nothing to do with them and wanted to cancel the plans and then that night she would apologize and say she had just forgotten the time oh just trying to make an excuse without really knowing what happened oh that's so creepy um um amort also believed that christina's brother and the brother's girlfriend were part of a demonic cult so they might have cursed her and that might be what caused this

wait but sorry sorry i know believes what apparently one of his guesses of like how she got afflicted uh-huh is that there might be a curse if someone she's related to is playing with black magic and so she he thought apparently there were rumors in town that her brother might have joined a cult or something and so they think maybe if he did join a cult he i was thinking Paolo and Nadia. Oh, no, no, no. And I was like, I called that. Nope, I was wrong.

So apparently when she was trying to meet up with them, it took six to seven times for her to finally say she was coming. And she asked for another location change. She said she wanted to meet in front of the park in front of a 12th century basilica. I was going to say in the catacombs front of a 12th century basilica i was gonna say in the catacombs in the basement um and that's creepy though basilica okay she wanted to meet in the park out front and she never showed up so william called her and she answered where are you oh my god she said he said i'm in the park and she said well i'm where i told you i would be i'm in the church in the town square, which is a totally different location.

And she had never said that. So apparently it's still playing mind games. So do you think that one was her or do you think that one was another? I don't know. Okay. So whoever he last spoke to was the opposite. Okay. Calling her now.

Cool. So he was like, okay, I'll drive to that church. And so he drove to that church and he didn't bring his camera this time. I guess he forgot it in the car. I don really remember what happened but he forgot the camera so he was just gonna go check in on her and just give an update later on the documentary but so he gets into the church and nobody's there and outside it was at least 110 to 120 degrees but the church was freezing cold and the door locked behind him um he heard demonic screaming and he saw Christina sliding off the chair and onto the floor

and Christina's boyfriend trying to hold her down so that she wouldn't get up or try to run away. And then the boyfriend apparently looked and sounded differently than he did the last time that they saw each other. So it made your idea of it parasitically moving into

another body uh-huh is something that was considered an interview so he just happened to forget his camera the one time that uh the door locks and she's slithering on right very interesting i'm i'm just saying just saying being devil's advocate for lack of a better term so he started screaming saying he wanted the film and that nobody should ever see it and then the brother was or the boyfriend. And then meanwhile Christina's demon inside was saying I want it to

be shown. I want everyone to know about me. The boyfriend then started saying give us the film or we'll kill you and he started acting like he was possessed too and William just ran out. Just found another door and just ran out. I was going say you should get his iphone out but i guess it's probably a little alarming yeah i imagine if someone was saying we'll kill you i don't care if you're possessed or not i just don't like hold on let me get out of portrait mode i wanna well apparently she uh

christina was scheduled for her 10th exorcism but uh father amort actually passed away from pneumonia um and was no longer able to obviously be there. But before he passed, he told his assistant, Paulo, he couldn't wait to get to heaven so he could beat the devil with his cane. And apparently he might actually be doing that because another clergyman took over and performed Christina's 10th exorcism. And when the clergyman called upon the spirit of Father Amort for help, Christina started to

growl and scream don't don't call him i can't stand it oh my god so in the interview um there were just some quick answers that i got from vulture where someone i guess the interviewer asked william that inhuman whale that we all heard was that truly the sound of her voice and he said obviously he said yes i would not fuck around with that and then try to sell this movie and then he was asked what was it like being in that room and william said absolutely terrifying and when the interviewer said but everyone else seemed so calm yes that's what i was wondering um william said this was their ninth time okay fair i didn't think of that because Because they are just, they're just like, Hail Mary full. Like, they're just like.

Like, there she goes floundering on the chair again. Fucking routine. All right. So anyway, that is a very long-winded version of the Devil and Father and Mother. Oh, it's so spooky. Or bullshit. I mean. But I mean, it's the Vatican exorcist.

If you're going to witness any exorcist performing a ceremony, like, that's the one to watch. I mean, it's the Vatican exorcist. If you're going to witness any exorcist performing a ceremony, like that's the one to watch. I mean, yeah. Yeah. I just, yeah, you're right. But even if it's phony or like, like it's so creepy. It's almost a defense mechanism where I'm calling it bullshit because I just don't want to believe it. It's very creepy. Like no matter what, even if it's, even if she, if it is mental illness, which like to be quite frank, like.

It could be i kind of that's where i lean but um just that's creepy too like screaming the devil's inside me like whether it's real fake mental illness very creepy to watch i don't yeah i don't i don't know i don't think i could watch it alone did you watch it alone yeah i also watched it at 3 a.m. Where was Allison? In bed. Oh, but you were not, like, alone in the house? No. Okay. I mean, like, I wouldn't, like... Oh, you couldn't, like, be alone in the home?

I would need someone in case, you know, Lucifer appeared. I mean, I just researched so much shit about ghosts, I just never... It doesn't mean anything anymore. Yeah. All right. All right. Ready for terrible things in the other direction? Yeah.

I'm about to therapeutically doodle while you... Fantastic, fantastic. So I, in honor of my honeymoon and honeymooners everywhere... Yeah. I am going to talk about murder on a honeymoon. Okay, go. This is the death of Tina Watson. Tina Watson, go. Death. This is the death of Tina Watson. Tina Watson.

Okay. So I originally heard about this on a Casefile episode ages ago, and it stuck with me. I didn't remember the name or, like, who they were, but I Googled, like, honeymoon death or something case, and it came up. But it's a great episode, very thorough. So I ended up doing my own research and watching a dateline episode and it's just crazy so this is the story of tina watson um her full name christina oh we're both doing christina christina may tina thomas was born in west germany on february 13th 1977 um she was relocated to the u.s while a baby and was legally adopted by Tommy and Cindy Thomas.

Tommy Thomas. Tommy Thomas. Just realizing that. Tommy Thomas and Cindy Thomas in January of 1980. So she and her family lived in Birmingham, Alabama, which is where my Uncle Wally and Aunt Angelica live, who you met at the wedding. Love Uncle Wally. I know. Uncle Wally and his bow ties. I'm an Uncle Wally connected. Uncle Wally and I really bonded live who you met at the wedding love uncle i know uncle wally and his bow ties eminem uncle wally connected really bonded over ties at christine's wedding i dug that guy so much he has like the most alabama southern drawl and he married my extremely german aunt

austrian german aunt and like they both moved to alabama it's quite a love story he really does seem like also as someone who is lgbt he sounds like a man that you want to not be near well as someone lgbt meaning you not him right yeah as me but like no i like usually when i hear a southern drawl i get nervous because i'm like oh should i steer clear of this right he was the most warm accepting man and he gave me a big hug and he was like i am so proud of you for being you know who you are and me a big hug and he was like, I am so proud of you for being, you know, who you are and being proud of it. And I was like, Oh, he's such a loving man. He was, he's the guy I tell everyone this, but I love it. So growing up, I always called him uncle

Wally. Cause he's like my dad's business associate and friend and my dad and he were very close. So I always called him uncle Wally. And then he met my aunt at my dad's wedding and they kind of had a couple not really well they did but they had a couple like misconnections like you know they like kind of met and then she lived obviously in europe and right so over time and then they finally got together and then they got married and now he's my real uncle wally so i just love that he actually became my uncle wally vision board at age three i vision board um anyway so birmingham alabama shout out um so tina went to the university of alabama at birmingham where she met david gabriel aka gabe watson and they began dating in january of 2001 and quick fun fact that's not so fun tina had actually been diagnosed with something called oh man i meant to ask blaze how to pronounce this but i'm gonna guess okay paroxysmal supraventricular

tachycardia so let's hope that's right okay otherwise known as psvt which is a type of short circuit arrhythmia um that's sometimes so like a heart condition right that's sometimes accompanied by episodes of palpitations feeling lightheaded sweating shortness of breath and chest pain so just side note for future reference that this is something she was diagnosed with got it so she and gabe tina and gabe got married october 11 2003 um it's a beautiful romantic wedding they showed some of the footage in the Dateline episode. They just look, like, so cute and happy. Very romantic.

And then, like, 10 days after the wedding, they left on their honeymoon. So Gabe himself was a qualified, certified rescue diver who had already completed 55 dives in his life. So scuba diving. Wow. And despite Tina's known discomfort of water and open water and anything kind of like adventurous like that um and her despite her hesitation and the hesitation of her parents gabe talked tina into taking diving lessons in january of 2003 so before the wedding and then she got her certification just before the wedding oh cool

so 11 days after the wedding, they leave for their honeymoon. And they had planned a scuba trip in the Great Barrier Reef, so in Australia. And they flew to Sydney for a week before heading to Townsville. And they chose to dive at this shipwreck called the SS Yongala, which was a passenger ship that sank in 1911, killing all 122 people aboard. Oh my God. And it wasn't found for a long time and people weren't able to see it for a, like a really long time. And then when they actually went and discovered it or like found it under on

the ocean floor, it was just like this ghost amazing discovery, you know, cause it was like a time capsule basically. Yeah. So like Australia's Titanic, I think they called it. Um,

and so it's now a very young gala, young gala. Yeah. So like Australia's Titanic, I think they called it. Um, and so it's now a very young gala young gala. Yeah. And so, um, I guess it's a popular dive site now because it's just such a cool thing to be able to go down and like explore as a scuba diver. Um, but it's also an extremely difficult dive because the currents are really heavy there or strong. I don't know. Currents are heavy. I don't know. Uh, obviously obviously i'm not i thought you were an expert about waves i'm a snorkeler which means i float around and look at turtles i'm a doggy paddler so we've all got our thing we've all got it um so yeah it's a very difficult dive um but they wanted to do it it was a really popular spot to dive um and although she only had she actually had no open ocean diving experience like sea got it that kind of experience in that open water like

that and um she had never dived below nine meters uh they decided to do it anyway and went forward with it and the dive company itself offered an orientation and a guided dive with a dive master, and they refused that. And they said, no, we don't need it. We can do it. So to her credit, Tina's best friend and maid of honor at her wedding, Amanda, was confused as to why Tina had chosen to go diving for her honeymoon. So were her friends and family. They were like, this seems kind of weird. Like they said she wanted probably to go to Europe or like the Caribbean orbean or like enjoy right not being under the ocean i guess is what they thought

um but they also knew that while they were dating uh gabe had told tina that if they were going to be together he she needed to pick up some of his hobbies okay like diving and fishing great and if she didn't do that they wouldn't't be able to grow together as a couple. Oh, that's a fun little ultimatum. Fun question. Risky little game. Risky little game. Fun question.

I wonder how many of her hobbies he picked up. Probably zero. Probably. So her family and friends were like, what the hell are they doing on this honeymoon? But like, this is not the type of person she is. But you know what? She always reassured them. Listen, Gabe's a certified rescue diver. We have nothing to worry about. Like, I'm certified now, too. but like this is not the type of person she is but you know what she always reassured them listen

gave's a certified rescue diver we have nothing to worry about like i'm certified now too um and we'll be fine and they were like okay i mean she's trying a new thing whatever so let her do her thing let her do it so they left um and they're at the great barrier reef they're aboard this ship with 25 people on it and it's basically this ship goes out for like a week and you do these dives and like live on the ship so it's called the spoil sport which is a fun little name um and that's what i call geo a little spoiled he's spoiled indeed um although isn't a spoil sport like who ruins the fun well sometimes he does too and we're trying to do ads and he starts barking you're right accurate so among the guests on the ship were two american couples who had been diving Well, sometimes he does, too. We're trying to do ads and he starts barking. You're right. Accurate.

So among the guests on the ship were two American couples who had been diving together for 25 years. Wow. So it's kind of cute. They were like the older couples on the ship. And when Tina and Gabe came... Oh, sorry. I just almost punched myself in the face. Woo! Wow.

When Tina and Gabe got on they immediately the older couples immediately took to them and were like oh they're you know this they're 26 years old or at least tina's 26 he might have been a little older i'm not sure but she's 26 like they're young couple newly married on their honeymoon and so they kind of took them under their wing and they were like they had kids the same age so they bonded um and they connected and they were all from the u.s so they all connected on the ship um and obviously tina they loved her she was sweet she was friendly like very down to earth and you know just a fun like a a light to be around so they were sort of adopted into this group and uh what like when the

dive got started so they spent the night on the ship finally they make it out to this dive site the dive master briefs the guests on visibility currents they go over safety procedures like it's a very regimented because you know it's a dangerous spot and diving is like not to be taken lightly i guess right right right um so everyone's really amped to finally get started and the dive is beginning. The two American couples, the experienced ones, are getting ready to go on their second dive of the day when they notice a flurry of activity on the back deck where the inflatable is, where they kind of put them. You go down like an inflatable raft and they take you out to the dive site. So they see this flurry of activity and then they see Gabe coming up hitting the side of the inflatable boat saying oh my god i've lost her i couldn't find her i don't know where she is oh no so they know immediately something bad is happening they another a dive boat is anchored nearby and they

see like a different ship that had come out like a different crew dive company with a different ship and different crew um they see this other ship and they see frantically someone giving cpr to a woman and that was tina so the couple so gabe is back on their boat and tina's on the other boat getting cpr and you know obviously these these couples are like freaking out and they're like what can we do like should we take you over there what do you need and he says i could use a hug what what and they're like what should we take you over there? What do you need? And he says, I could use a hug. What? And they're like, what?

Like, don't you want to go over there? And he's like, no, no, I don't want to see her like that. And they're like, you don't even know if she's alive.

Like, and he says, I think she just has a headache. What? Is he like just lying to himself so that he'll, maybe. Yeah. So they're like,

what the, like, this is just the weirdest. he can't handle it. So he's denying it. maybe disassociating, right. Or like denial. So, like, this is just the weirdest reaction. Like he can't handle it, so he's denying it? Like maybe disassociating, right, or like denial. So he just says, I could use a hug. It was explained later that he was chatting with the crew on the spoilsport.

He went to his cabin for a bit, and then these concerned ladies were waiting to hear news, and he said he could use a hug. It was just a very odd situation. Yeah. So the rescuer, about 40 minutes later, came over to the boat that Gabe was on and told him that Tina, unfortunately, had passed away. Oh, no.

And all the people on the spoilsport just, like, collapsed into each other, basically. So at the age of 26,ina had died and all the way across the world unfortunately tina's parents were notified and tina's dad was out of town um on a business trip he answered his phone and it was gabe's dad okay he told tina's dad that tina had died then handed his phone to his pastor and so tina's dad tommy just gets his phone call from his son-in-law's father basically who's like tina has passed away here talk to my pastor and the pastor's like i want to comfort you in this time of grief or whatever and so i guess

tommy says he just collapsed and yeah didn't think about just like collapsed didn't think about it. Just, like, collapsed. Didn't even think how strange it was that, like, the police weren't contacting him. But, like, it's his son's father. And the pastor was going to, like. It was just, yeah. Just another very odd event that happened. So, finally. So, the Thomases. The Thomases.

Yeah, that is their name, right? That's also his first name. Okay. Tommy Thompson. Tommy Thompson. Thomas Thomas. So, the Thomases finally get a hold of Gabeabe so they're calling they're trying to figure out they're trying to contact their son-in-law to be like what what's going on what happened

he's hard to reach finally they get a hold of gabe um who by the way had not at all tried to contact them oh my god so uh he finally they finally got in touch with him and he told them what happened he said they were down about 40 feet when she gave him the thumbs up signal to surface that she wanted to surface. He said they were on their way up to the surface of the water when she started sinking. And when she reached up to grab his hand, she knocked his mask loose. So he had to fix his mask, thereby like not being able to grab her. And then he saw tina sinking to the bottom faster no then he could reach her her arms outstretched toward him and he had to

make the decision to go up for help just oh my god fucking traumatizing so investigators are obviously on it right away um australian police they investigate they interview him to see what happened um and he tells police that his dive computer so there's have you heard of this i hadn't heard of this but it's it's like a watch like a smart watch basically but it's a dive computer and it basically tells you everything from um how many minutes of oxygen you have left to how many feet underwater you are. It's like extremely important because it just gives you all the stats of your survival, your survival, right? Underwater.

So he tells police his dive computer on the way down, only a couple of feet down on their first dive, starts beeping and he looks at it and he realizes it's on the fritz. So he tells Tina, we got to go back up and and figure out what's he's basically signaling like we got to go fix my watch right so he gets uh he gets back up with tina and he realizes that the battery in his watch is backwards so he puts the battery back in and then they go back down to their dive he says while on the second dive she realized that he realizes that tina is out of her comfort zone and she wants to go back so basically there's pretty strong currents and they're swimming

against the current trying to head back to the rope when uh he's trying to hold her vest and pull her up but as they're swimming back to the group she's kind of flailing hits his mask and he has to let her go but but she's sinking so fast, um, and that he can't grab her. And, uh, he says he rocketed to the surface so fast to get help. He's shocked.

He didn't get the bends. Do you know what that is? That's like when, um, you're pressurized at a certain point underwater and you, you have to raise, uh, reach the surface slowly enough because if you shoot to the surface, it basically, like, fucks up your body really bad.

Got it. Like, you can die from it. And I don't know the full details, but I do know that getting the bends is very dangerous. So they teach you how to, like, slowly surface so that the pressure doesn't, you know, destroy you, for lack of a better term. So he's like, I'm amazed I didn't get didn't get the bends i like shot back to the surface and then he said he heard a couple minutes later they had found tina but within a half hour he was told she had passed oh my god so this is what he's telling investigators so the australian medical examiner said that tina had drowned but was unable to see how the drowning occurred and when they examined her equipment

they saw everything was in working order even her mouthpiece was still in her mouth when she was found at the bottom of the ocean so tina's dad meanwhile is in alabama getting no answers whatsoever when he's calling australian police but he is realizing that something is up because he's asking what's going on and they're like well we're looking into it and they're being a little if discreet yeah yeah yeah and he's like they're not telling me anything outright but i could tell something what's going on um so then tina's dad gets a call from a group of strangers that he's never met and it happens to be the four american divers that were with tina and gabe on the spoil sport they call and they tell him something's

wrong with gabe's story ken one of the divers and tina's dad met for coffee um and that coffee ended up lasting four hours of discussion uh and tina's dad tommy told ken he thought the thought that haunts him and his family the most is the image of tina with her arms outstretched toward great sinking to the bottom i mean that's horrible like you can literally see her horrifying knowing what's going to happen and like your own daughter like reaching for yeah it's horrible and ken said you can rest assured because that didn't happen oh and tommy says what are you talking about how do you know that and And Gabe says, well,

I'm sorry. Gabe doesn't say that. Ken says, well, Gabe had told Ken that Tina had panicked and messed with her regulator, then sunk to the bottom. But Ken and Doug, who are the two men in the two older couples had 25 years of experience.

And they said this, just the way that Gabe described this, when he came to the surface and he came to the surface and they were like, what's going on? And he's like, just the way that Gabe described this when he came to the surface. And he came to the surface and they were like, what's going on? And he's like, this is what happened. And I guess both of them said, apparently Ken literally said to Gabe's face, you better fix your story. That can't be what happened. And like, not in like a, you're lying, but like, tell us what happened.

That can't, you better be clear with your story. That's not how this could have happened. And he he said there are four reasons why this couldn't have happened number one panic divers don't lay back with their arms outstretched as if saying goodbye if she's really flailing and panicking she's not she's trying to get to the surface she's trying to fix her air she's right choking death whatever but she's not slowly reaching arms out and sinking to the bottom backwards, essentially. Okay. Number one. He says only dead people sink like that.

Okay. Number two, if she was only 10 feet beneath him, that probably takes two fin kicks to reach when he had said she was 10 feet beneath me. Number three, leaving Tina behind violated the number one cardinal rule of diving, which is that you never leave your buddy. And in their words, it's completely unconscionable that you would ever make the decision to surface when someone. Especially when you know that she is not as skilled as you and she's clearly not comfortable. Especially when she's your wife. Like you don't leave your buddy even if they're a stranger, but this is literally his wife. Like you'd think that would override. Right yeah but so essentially right so you don't leave your buddy ever and adding to that it's the love of his life so you know and remember he's a

certified rescue diver so this isn't news to him that you don't leave your buddy right um and this goes against all of his training and again this is his wife drowning in front of him he so gabe tells police he wasn't trained in that kind of rescue and they tracked down his former dive instructor who said that was categorically untrue and that's a cardinal or a principal part of their training finally number four gabe said that tina was too heavy for him and that he tried to grab her and carry her, but she was too heavy. So he lost her grip. And Ken and Doug both said that's just not possible in underwater.

She wouldn't have been too heavy to just grab on. Especially with adrenaline. Yeah. And also like underwater weight doesn't. Right. You can pick things up. Anyway, so that was that was the fourth thing so the police soon came to the same conclusion um and this may that it may not have been an accident

and so remember the dive computer yeah so it tells you like i said your depth how many minutes of air supply etc and guess what else it has a memory chip that shows the last dives you took and you can it tracks them and you can take it out and check it out so they take his dive computer and when they take a look it turns out gabe's description of the dive did not match the computer's record when he uh went under the first time he said there was a malfunction and the watch started beeping and he realized it was on the fritz but when they tested it they realized that if the battery were backwards like he said the watch wouldn't even turn on let alone beep like there's no way that the watch would be beeping and saying error or whatever he said it wouldn't be on the

fritz because it just wouldn't even function it wouldn't turn on right and also he's used this thing for at least 55 dives like right put the battery in backwards it was just a strange thing and that's the first big red flag that i guess kind of sparked the rest of this investigation oh yeah so the computer did track that dive so it wasn't it was working and they said well if he was if it was working why would he signal to tina that they had to go back because it did show that they went 10 feet down and then went back up. And then their new theory is, well, uh,

perhaps he wanted to separate from the group because if they went back up, it would just be more distance from the rest of the crew that had already gotten started. Right. Given them, um, uh, farther distance.

Right. Um, so then they look into the second dive, the one during which Tina had sunk to the bottom um however the watch didn't show proof of any sharp turn any attempt to swim after tina like he said uh it also contradicted his account of rocketing to the surface at a high speed the dive recorded a leisurely ascent that took two full minutes to go only 40 feet which according to most divers is a snail's pace uh who say that a 40 foot ascent can safely made be made in about 45 seconds to a minute

the dive instructor even carrying her took a minute and a half to reach the surface from 100 feet underwater uh while gabe took between two and three minutes to go less than half that distance in his so-called panic oh so what was going on just slow-mo heading to the surface slow-mo slow-mo so obviously red flags everywhere everywhere no other diver could confirm that gabe tried to alert them with a distress signal like he claimed he said he was shaking divers underwater, making signals, and they interviewed, I think, like 75 divers that were in that area. Yeah. Almost everyone they could find.

And they were like, no, we didn't see. Oh, okay. He wasn't trying to shake any of us. Nobody encountered him. At this point, Gabe decides to change his story again. And at this point, he has now shared 16 different versions of what happened. 16? Underwater.

Wow. Yes, 16 variations. And now they have a local investigator from Alabama on the case as well, who's doing kind of like the American legwork, while the Australian investigators are doing it across the country. Oh. Not that bad at geography. Across the globe. The whole globe. I'm not that bad at geography. Across the globe.

The whole globe. You know, that one. So the guy who's researching in Alabama, researching, investigating in Alabama, his name is Detective Flynn. Sounds like the name of a guy in like one of those crime novels. Like Detective Flynn is on the case. He's had a hard past. I don't hate it. I used to read the Hank the Detective books with the little dog on it.

Oh, yeah. That's what I thought. But then I was like, that can't be what you're talking about. I remember one of the books saying, on the case. On the case. Yeah. He's on the case. Yeah.

That's all. When you say on the case, that's my first thought. Not that that has any importance or humor at all. Because I heard on the case and i was like yeah hank i've been reading those like crime books where it's like they're just kind of like the pulp fictiony like um like basically like the beach read yeah crime books yeah that's what i think of um okay oh that's new. I learned it in Belize. Oh. So this detective in Alabama interviews Tina's family. It turns out they were not so fond of our good friend Gabe from day one. Oh.

Not a good start. Amanda, so the friend and maid of honor, she says Tina thought that Gabe was handsome, a good guy. She really liked his mom and was welcomed into his family but tina's parents got a bad vibe and then yep not a good sign oh or maybe depends on your parents i guess but um and then tina's dad tommy uh then tells detective flynn another interesting little tidbit what's that emma's literally eating the hot sauce with their finger it's really good cute um according to tommy tina had come to him one day and told him told her dad that gabe had asked her to increase her life insurance policy uh-oh to the max which was 130 000 payout and he wanted to change uh wanted her to change the beneficiary from her

father to him so again they're 26 and tina's dad is like what like and he works in insurance by the way her dad so he's like wait what like no and so he's like not right now you're not even married yet like life insurance and he's like i have clients who were have been married 30 years haven't even like thought about it and right now my 26 year old daughter's coming to me like my husband my future husband my fiance wants me to max out my insurance policy so he basically says she's like no he's like really insistent on this and he goes you know what tell gabe like okay sure we'll do it but like just leave it we'll do it after we'll talk about it after the honeymoon like just get married first and we'll talk about this later but if he at least he was on top of it he like knew to say no

he basically was like this is not like we don't there's no reason to do that right now right so he's like yeah tell him and if he asked tell him yeah sure like i'll take care of it okay so she's like okay thanks um so he's obviously kind of put off by that, but it's like, whatever. And brings us to Detective Flynn's attention. And that obviously in this case now is a very standout detail. So she tells... Sorry, I know this has nothing to do with anything. I love you.

I just had a moment where I was like, I love the shit out of her. Oh my God, the love potion I put in that hot sauce. It's working. I just had a moment i told you it was from the hottest one in belize and that's me it's affecting me oh i'm sorry carry on with your murder case oh i love you too it just hit me like a like a like a wave oh you know what i'm current i don't i didn't want to talk about this on the show, but like, I was hoping maybe you could put me as your beneficiary on. Oh yeah. I have $130,000 max. So I could just, you know. Oh, that's it. All for you. Okay. We'll talk about it later. We'll talk maybe after the honeymoon. Oh wait, it's after the honeymoon.

Shit. Okay. Uh, sorry. That was just like totally jarring and i didn't mean to interrupt your story i love you too m okay keep going well now i just want to drink water okay you want some hot sauce um this is very good you really picked a good one oh i'm glad you liked it blaze and i spent a long time picking them out oh these are from blaze too by the way oh thanks blaze okay um i love you too. You're my favorite. And I missed you a lot. I missed you, too. So during Tina's funeral, that's literally the next bullet.

This is horrible. I know how to time things. No, I don't. You do. You felt it. You felt we needed a little barrier between. Oh, a thousand percent. I was like, where's the comedic relief? I don't have any.

How about emotional relief? How about a romantic moment? It's either comedy or romance. Those are the two things we give you on this show. Look, rom-com central. That's right. As M literally sticks their saliva finger into the hot sauce. Okay.

It's my bottle. I know. You offered me some. It's not appealing. And now I see why you were not interested. Glad. Glad it occurred to you at some point. Right. You want some of. Oh, right. And now I see why you were not interested. Glad. Glad it occurred to you at some point. Right.

You want some of this with all my spit on it? I love you, but maybe not that much. Okay. So, dee-da-da-dee-da-da. During. Sorry. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. Okay. We're at her funeral. Right. Okay. During Tina's funeral, only a few months later the drama between the two families was at a high and the funeral director actually told detective flynn that in all their years of business they'd never had a funeral with such high tension between two families

oh no it was not good um so he showed so gabe literally is showing amanda picture after the funeral um he's showing amanda her best friend, pictures from the honeymoon. And he shows her a photo that she remembered later of what? Of Tina standing next to a sign that reads, Caution, Drowning. He's like, look.

And he didn't pick up on that? No, he just showed her. He's like, look at this picture. And she's like, what the fuck? And so she's like, so weirded out, so put off, and, like, leaves this funeral and is like, okay, whatever. But things get just even weirder. Okay. So you could play that off as, like, okay, he didn't realize or, like, he just, like, thought it was weird and didn't know how to connect. Like, I don't know, just being socially weird.

Like, you could explain it but the weirder thing is that the flowers at tina's grave kept disappearing what to the point that tina's dad literally attached the flowers to the grave with chains shut the fuck because he's like i can't they won't stay like someone is stealing the flowers. So he attaches them with wires and chains. And then someone fucking comes and cuts them with a bolt cutter, literally brings a bolt cutter and cuts the chain. What is going on? Okay. So this detective Flynn guy, the star of my rom-com crime novel, decided, sets up video surveillance of the grave to see what the fuck is going on.

And guess who's taking the flowers it's gabe and i watched this video he literally walks in with these big ass three foot long like metal cutters bolt cutters yeah oh my gosh he walks out with bolt cutters you see him fucking just like casually walk in cut the fucking things he picks the flowers up walks away about 10 feet and then fucking hurls them to the side tosses them to the side like it's the most chilling like pit in your stomach video because he just doesn't look he doesn't look devastated and upset he just like he's like doesn't want anyone to like casual her just like do we find out why he was doing that later so they did confront him obviously they're like you can't deny this we have video right and he makes two excuses he gives two excuses he says one he's still grieving for her and they're like okay doesn't really make sense

throw the flowers on the ground that doesn't seem very grieving and then he says two when that didn't really fly two he claims the flowers were too tacky and she would have hated them oh what a saint they're from her parents they're her mom and dad are bringing flowers and he says they're too gaudy she would have hated them so he takes bolt cutter every time and they kept doing this to the point that they had to chain them down like that's how often this was happening um so at this point her parents are like what the fuck is going on and they're very mild-mannered like in the interviews and they're like yeah he was just doing this and i'm like oh my god like they have every right to be furious i mean furious this is horrifying and like so degrading and of their own daughter oh it's just so fucked up so anyway first first i mean despite

what happened at the funeral tina's friend Amanda was, like, pretty accepting of what happened to Tina and was like, you know what, like, she wasn't good underwater. Like, she was just, it makes sense that she was swept away in this current whatever. I believe him. But then she got a Christmas card. Oh. It was from Gabe. And it was a picture of Tina and Gabe at their wedding, like a wedding photo. Oh, no.

And then he wrote a note and said, who's that sexy guy in the picture with Tina? Oh, yeah, that's me with a smiley face. This guy is bananas. Bananas. This guy is Looney Tunes. And so at that point, she's like, she says in the interview, I'm done. Like, I'm out. I'm done. I don't know, like, what this. Like, have a heart the interview, I'm done. Like, I'm out. I'm done.

I don't know, like, what this. Like, have a heart at the very least. Right. Like, this is so not. It's creepy. It's cruel. It's wrong. It's just not good.

So she's like, I'm out. Meanwhile, this Australian investigation is still going three years later. So this is just like an ongoing thing. going three years later so this is just like an ongoing thing um they offer to pay for gabe to come to the inquest into tina's death and testify but he just doesn't show he's like i have no interest and they're like you don't have to testify but like you can still pay for you to come down and like be there when we invest you know go through the trial and he's like no i don't want to be there so he just fucking doesn't show but of course her family goes um and by the way right now i just threw this fun fact in he's working as a bubble wrap salesman i mean why wouldn't i put that i'm sure i put that on my second grade like what do

you want to be when you grow up i mean a thousand percent i think we probably both did that um and so they're that's just like its own bullet i don't know i didn't even know that that was a job i didn't either but here we are let's quit let's quit guys the podcast is over we're gonna become bubble sales people we finally found the next tier in our it's our calling career dreams yeah if you donate to patreon we will give you free bubble wrap we will we won't not free no and not bubble wrap either just nothing at all all. Just our. Just what we already provide. Our hot sauce saliva filled love. I.

Do you know how many times I've almost just swigged this well. I mean you can do whatever you want. I've seen. No but I've been thinking it was like a drink and then I realized it's hot sauce and I'm like no. Oh no. Oh. Okay.

Sorry. He's selling bubble wrap. He's selling bubble wrap. He's like I don't want to be there. And they're like that seems heartless and cruel but okay. Right. So her instead it's like i've got to work i've got a big right i've got a big package of bubble wrap i've got a bubble wrap convention to attend where all we do is test out bubble wrap which sounds great and i want to go there uh so they are now testing gabe's story with a reenactment so they hire like an actor who's the

same weight and proportions as tina they hire like professional divers to basically reenact the scene the way that he described it okay does that make sense yeah okay so they test it numerous times with the same conditions as like currents weight distribution equipment etc and it turns out gabe's version just couldn't be replicated the way that he said it happened. They just couldn't do it. And it couldn't have gone the way he said it did. She couldn't have landed where she did on the ocean floor, 45 feet away from the ship where she would have landed if,

like they did this over and over. And every time the diver sunk to the bottom and landed on the deck of this like big abandoned ship and she had actually landed 45 feet away. Wow. So there's really like, he's for sure telling a lie. So something is wrong. A miss. A miss.

A miss. Something is afoot. Oh. In the state of Denmark. Nope. What's that quote? I don't know. I only watched the movie version and wrote a movie report like you did.

Something is something in the state of Denmark. Right? A rye? A foot? I don't know. Danish? Something is a Danish in the state of Denmark. I don't know.

Okay. Shakespeare. It turns out someone... Okay. Oh, this is a great fun fact. Yes. Um, it turns out someone, okay. Oh, this is a great fun fact. So it turns out into evidence was given. That's not proper English. It turns out someone had gotten their photos developed from their dive.

Oh, and saw pictures of them. And there is a photo where this one diver took a photo of another diver. And in the background on the ocean floor you can see tina's body it is upsetting it is wow creepy it's just you don't even notice it if you're looking at the photo but this person was going through their photos and just spotted it knowing what had happened and was like holy shit oh my god that's this diver that had that died so were they able to like find the body because of that well they had her body oh right yeah sorry i just got excited i was like this can mean so much more and i was like it's already it's a

crucial piece of evidence because it shows exactly because yeah they don't have they didn't have any evidence to be like oh this is where like he he could have said oh this is where she landed and right now they could see like where her body totally ended up, like, physically exactly where it was. So now they have a more sinister theory about this dive computer, which is, again, that he put distance between the two of them and the rest of the group. And that was maybe his intention. And in the inquest, a total of 75 people testified who were there, who were around the dive site when it happened. One diver, a doctor from the U.S., gave an interesting testimony saying he had seen Tina and Gabe in what he described as an embrace underwater during their dive. And they now believe that this pointed to foul play.

So the diver testified that she sunk to the bottom after this embrace uh a look of panic on her face and the police believed that what happened was gabe hugged his wife under the water and then turned off her oxygen in the process of this embrace leading her to flail potentially knock off his mask like he said do you think doing doing it on purpose well yeah he would have to unscrew the tank okay i don't know if like there was like a hug so strong oh no no no he uh he would have got it definitely embraced her turned the valve on her oxygen i know if like when their when his arm went around her might have like knocked it no no like just turned off the whole tank and then they believed she had passed out of oxygen passed out of oxygen deprivation and then another diver had actually testified to

seeing him closer to the bottom with her and they believe that what could have happened is that she could have passed out from deprivation of oxygen and then he could have headed down while she was sinking to turn the oxygen back on once he had already fallen unconscious because obviously if they find her with a tank off like right so he did that um so that's kind of what they're thinking at this point that's like their running theory so after six years now the australian authorities determined that gabe watson should stand trial for the death of tina watson uh they believe they have enough for a case uh soon after he was indicted for murder and he was ordered to be in court in australia in february 2009 but guess what he's probably at another bubble wrap convention because he doesn't fucking show oh then in may hard at work hard i mean you gotta

understand that he's a busy man it's a tough business out tough gig doggy dog world doggy dog world uh in may 2009 a call came in from a prosecutor in australia to tell uh tommy tina's dad that gabe actually showed up in brisbane and was put in jail and tommy realized now that that means he must have cut a deal because why else would he turn himself in so the authorities called tommy again soon saying that they had accepted uh the charge of manslaughter so he pled down in manslaughter um tommy was obviously furious because he's like this man murdered my daughter right but the deal was done uh gabe was given four and a half years of a suspended sentence but considering time

served he'd only serve 11 months in jail in australia wow and then be released when he did return to the u.s he was indicted for tina's murder but his case wound up being dismissed um so even though double jeopardy didn't apply because it was two different countries uh and they even tried him for kidnapping because um they charge him with kidnapping because in alabama it counts as kidnapping even the example they give is like hey let's go to uh birmingham for christmas give is like, hey, let's go to Birmingham for Christmas shopping. And you're like, okay, let's go. And you get in my car and we go.

But my plan is to murder you there. Then that counts as kidnapping. If I have sinister, even if you come willingly, it counts as kidnapping. Because you didn't know what you were signing yourself up for. Yeah. And I had sinister plans basically to end your life. So they try to charge him with this um but to everyone's shock uh the when gabe's defense attorney requests that the charges be dropped

due to lack of evidence the judge concurred and the charge was dismissed wow so basically he just didn't even stand trial for it in the u.s naturally, the question at this point was, why the fuck did he do this? Well, remember the insurance policy. So he believed she had changed it so that he was a beneficiary because her dad just said, oh, tell him like, yeah, sure, it's taken care of and we'll just do it when you get back. Right. So he potentially, according to Tina's father, believed that he was the beneficiary on this policy um moreover he had also bought a hefty travel insurance policy when they went to australia but the policy as it turns out didn't cover scuba diving so he did not do his homework and he sued the company when they

didn't pay out uh but that didn't work and he eventually just dropped it oh okay um but then again i'm gonna now do the kind of devil's advocate uh because when you're first first reading about this or watching a tv show or the dateline or whatever you're like holy fuck of course this guy fucking did it yeah so i did kind of look into like other theories and possibilities um the payout again of this insurance policy was only 134 thousand dollars so it is kind of hard to believe that he went through years of dating the marriage the trip etc all diving just to like reap 100 potentially reap 134 thousand dollars so that's one thing uh one prevailing theory is that ga himself, although a rescue driver, driver, rescue diver, was simply just not able to save his wife and made a stupid, stupid fucking decision in the heat of the moment and wasn't able to save her.

And the other thing about this rescue diver, it turns out the course he took was only a two day course. So although he learned like never leave your buddy and all that. It's only two days. Two day course is really not as thorough as. If you don't use it, you'll lose it. Right. And the other divers who had done this 25 years were like, of course, you know this. But, like, you know, if he was.

I mean. If he took a crash course. Yeah. Like, it wasn't instilled in him. Right. Exactly. And he had done 55 dives, but not anything at this extreme level. Got it. dives but not anything at this extreme level got it um and then actually a key diving expert who

was in the original investigation and like was utilized heavily um he basically went during the investigation he maintained that a diver with watson's training should have been able to bring tina up but then he later retracted much of his testimony after being provided with tina and gabe's diver log certificates and medical histories heina and gabe's diver log certificates and medical histories he claimed that gabe should not have been allowed in the water and never as a dive buddy for his wife who had no open water scuba experience again she had had heart surgery to correct an irregular heartbeat two years earlier but on her dive application said she had never had any heart problems or any surgeries to speak of not only did she have a heart problem she had literally had heart surgery um so a another leading expert in dive medicine named

professor mike bennett also said stated that tina was unfit to dive without clearance from a cardiologist and although gabe had received this rescue certification which is usually a four-day course um he had only done it in two days and had no rescue experience and little open water experience so all in all all of that it was not suggest yeah recipe for disaster according to mckenzie he had no hope of being competent he could barely save himself that day let alone his wife i don't now believe he intended to kill her so this is like these experts who originally testified against him and now are saying, I'm not sure that I actually believe knowing all the knowing what I know now. I don't know that I actually believe he did it. Revelations that Watson needed help to don his diving equipment that day underscored that he was a, quote, dangerous amateur who showed a complete lack of courage when he abandoned his wife.

Yikes. The dive company had offered an orientation in guided dive, like I said, but they both refused the help or the orientation. And the company head, Mike Ball, said his people took them at their word, saying they were experienced, and they actually pleaded guilty to contravening safety standards wow uh and were actually fined uh several thousand dollars for that but so that being said it's kind of like i can see and also the currents were really heavy that day and i was also reading on reddit that like from divers who are kind of commenting back and forth whether he's guilty or not nobody really knows but somebody said you know diving equipment you're wearing 20 pounds and in a current like as much as 10 feet could be done in

two fin kicks like if you're panicked if she's panicking yeah he's panicking because he's not as experienced as both of them are panicking they're both panicking you know he made a stupid decision i mean like some people say cowardly because really like leaving her behind um and so that's that's kind of one point in his favor um and also she did aspirate like she did uh drown but one theory too is that she was using so much oxygen panicking and breathing right that she just uh was i guess there's a way that if you're breathing too fast like you need to really regulate your breathing and if you breathe too fast with scuba equipment on you can choke on water you can breathe water in and so they think maybe she just panicked so

much that and then went unconscious got it it's just very there's a lot of yeah a lot of options a lot of factors um so all that being said though like what's up with the watch what's up with um the christmas card the flowers being stolen from the grave like yikes there's just a lot so you could kind of go back and forth um over and over again and it's really not totally clear but overall something's off with this guy and he really fucked up one way or another even if it was an accident right he fucked up um and he really fucked up one way or another, even if it was an accident. Right. He fucked up.

And they both fucked up like going on this. He fucked up letting his wife on this tour where he's like, no, we'll be fine. And she's not even remotely experienced. Yeah. It's just really sad. So in 2006, Gabe began dating an Alabama school teacher named Kim Lewis. They married in 2008. A lot of media kind of went all around, hovered all around that because she looks like identical to Tina.

Yeah. And it is actually a little creepy how similar they look. But at the same time, it's like, whatever. He has a type. You can't really. It's nothing criminal. I guess you can't say anything about it. It's like you can't say anything criminal about it. You can keep something criminal about it you can think it you just can't say it you can think it

but it's a little and a little odd um but for now he's just kind of living his life uh i think he is not he's curfewed like there's some certain things that he's still uh you know being monitored for and that kind of thing he's trying to stay out of the public eye and live his life. But obviously Tina's family is still grieving and it's just a very, very traumatic experience for everybody involved. For sure. So I highly recommend the Dateline episode on this. Very thorough, very interesting. And the Case File episode as well.

And so that's that. Wow. Yeah, I could not find gabe's birthday okay so i have a scorpioscope a geoscope instead oh baby geo yeah if it's a scorpioscope we should just call it a geoscope a geoscope right right right a happy baby all right here's your geoscope your geo you want to know what's going on? Yes, he does. Your beliefs about a certain close relationship may undergo a transformation today. If you have had certain fantasies and ideas that are not based on the truth of the situation, then you may be in for a rude awakening. They were all true, Gio. Don't worry.

I also dreamed of feeding you fistfuls of peanut butter. There's no rude awakening in either of your lives. Just open your eyes and we're all here enjoying the same thing. Fantasy is reality. If you can let things be as they are, you could be in for a pleasant surprise. Tio! That's right. Get your blood flowing with some aerobic exercise.

No, sir. Peanut butter and the couch only. And try to understand what you are feeling yourself before you try to communicate it to someone else. I think the aerobic exercise, I felt a little threatened by that because I'm the one who has to give him that said exercise. I'm like, what are you trying to tell me? Yeah, it sounds like a astrostyle.com. I actually don't know where I got this. But yeah, aerobic exercise.

We can just cross that part out. Yeah. Unless we're in like a doggy pool or something. Listen, no fucking horoscope should ever tell anyone to do exercise. What a terrible, rude thing to say. Imagine if a horoscope was like, put the cookie down. Yeah. You know you want to.

Go get away from me. It's rude. Get some aerobic exercise. Do your cardio. Also, I haven't seen you since thanksgiving since before thanksgiving how was your thanksgiving oh it was great we had a friendsgiving but i did not attend i know yeah you weren't there was great though without me that's fine yeah i mean because of it i know that i know i hear it it was great a lot of cooking was on my

feet for 16 hours apparently my sciatica really acted up wow poor plays all night i was like oh my sciatica he's like jesus i married a grandmother your turkey looked really good thank you herbie was great i followed i followed it on on your instagram on the gram herbie uh herbie i bought him all free pasture free range you know because I didn't want to, I wanted to make sure he had a good life before we ate him. Okay. Good. How was Seattle? Good. It was a blast. It always is. Um, my mom showed up this time and, um, it was, it was good. Good. Yeah. We, I got to, my favorite thing there is my grandpa who passed. The aunt that I go visit, it was her dad. And so I get to always ask her questions and hear stories.

Because my mom doesn't so much talk about her dad. They're sisters, my mom and I. My mom doesn't talk too much about her dad, although I always wish she would talk more about him. But I don't think that's what she's about. But my aunt really like they are still they really very much include him in the family they bring up him they bring him up all the time and always have anecdotes about him and even though like some of my cousins never actually met him because he passed away before they were born they feel like they know him like they really kept him like involved in their family is your mom like comfortable when the stories are told or is

it just i think so i just don't think she i don't know i guess she's just either she moved on and doesn't really feel the need to reflect or she never mourned properly and like doesn't talk about it i don't really know what happened but if i ever bring it up she it's not that she gives me short answers or anything it's just she prioritizes differently i guess i'm not really sure but they uh my mom's sister though they regularly talk about him and also um they were they're half sisters oh right and so my aunt's mom talks a lot about him so i think that's one of the reasons why my aunt talks about him a lot makes sense um i think because when they're together they both you know feel like a close part of the family.

Meanwhile, my mom's mom doesn't talk about him because they got divorced in the 70s. Right, right, right. Okay. So I think my aunt just grew up talking about him more. But it was fun to, they found his wallet while I was there, so I got to look in my grandpa's wallet. Oh, I love this. And there was a bunch of baby pictures

of me, and my picture was right between his silver and sexy Hooters card. Uh-huh, uh-huh. And his membership card to the adult video store. And then little M right in between. And also, I was a little naked baby, so I have some questions. Oh, for God's sakes. At least I was one of the top three priorities he had.

Grandpa. Silly grandpa. Dirty old man. Porn, boobs, and baby grin. god's sakes at least i was one of the top three priorities he had that's all silly grandpa dirty old man porn boobs and baby grin i'm 25 dirty old man but that's fine um aren't we all but you know what i was honored to be in his wallet precious precious that's kind of a cool like little glimpse into history though yeah and possibly my future i don't know i like i like hooters wings i don't have a silver and sexy card. Not yet? Not yet.

Not with that attitude. Just give it a couple gray hairs and I'll see you later, Hooters. You mean you didn't pocket that thing? You should have pocketed that thing. I should have. I mean, it's vintage. Put it to some good use. Three generations have passed since this card.

That's right. Put a little touch of gray up there and... Yeah. Bada bing, bada boom. Get you some chicken wings. Oh, I really do love Hooters chicken wings, though. That's what. Put a little touch of gray up there and get you some chicken wings. Oh, I really do love Hooters chicken wings, though. That's what they all say. All right.

It's true. Anyway, yes, I had a great time with my family. You had a great time with friends. I did. And then now it's been so long. I don't know when I'm going to record with you again. Well, many times this week, I was going to say in like two days,

then I'll be sick of you. Don't get too nostalgic. We'll have to, um, and one of our episodes cover like what we foresee in 2019. Oh yeah, we can do that. Yeah.

A couple episodes left. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right, guys, we're almost done with 2018, but not yet.

So you got to bear with us. Uh, we, and two episodes from now will be our hundredth episode get ready very excited um so we got some stuff planned i do i don't know about you um working on it and uh that's all i have yep if you can if you want you can find us at atww podcast on social media and on patreon uh you can email us listener stories at and that's why you drink at gmail.com we have one of those coming for you the first of 2019

um also what else so happy early christmas happy holidays in general happy late hanukkah and early christmas yes somewhere in there just happy december guys just happy cold happy being cold yes nope nobody's that um all right all right guys thanks for listening and that's why we drink