And That's Why We Drink - Listener Stories: Vol. 103

Episode Date: May 1, 2025

The rumors are true - it’s May! And this month Eva has brought us a wild batch of true crime themed listener stories. We hear about a garage sleeping future murderer, a connection to a famous true crime case, a Third Man story, and some personal stories to bring in Missing and Murdered Indigenous People Awareness month. And seriously, what’s the deal with hotel ice? …and that’s why we drink! For a list of resources or ways to help those affected by the fires in Los Angeles visit: http://bit.ly/atwwdfirehelp ! Only a few cities remaining for our Pour Decisions Tour! Get your tickets today at http://andthatswhywedrink.com/live !______________ For 50% off your order, head to DailyLook.com and use code DRINK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So have you ever been speed dating? Have you? I haven't. That's cool. Well, apparently if you're the owner of a growing business, imagine that there's speed dating, but for hiring people, that's kind of what we did when we went through people who applied to be Eva. And all of a sudden, it was like, here's Eva in the middle of this beautiful pile of, and we did the speed dating and she sat down and we said ding ding ding if you were hoping for some sort of speed dating for you when it comes to a job search or an employee search well good news there is it's zip intro from zip recruiter and you can post your job today and start talking to qualified candidates tomorrow and right now you can try a zip intro for

free at ziprecruiter.com slash drinkip Intro gives you the power to quickly assess excellent candidates for your job via back-to-back video calls. Oh, so it's like really is like speed dating. You simply pick a time and Zip Intro does all the work of finding and scheduling qualified candidates for you. Like they schedule, then you sit down, you choose who you want to talk to, and it's like, bing, bang, boom. Enjoy the benefits of speed hiring with new Zip Intro, only from ZipRecruiter, rated number one hiring site based on G2. Try ZipIntro for free at ziprecruiter.com slash drink. Again, that's ziprecruiter.com slash drink.

ZipIntro post jobs today, talk to qualified candidates tomorrow. What matters most to you? Is it unforgettable adventures? Connections with lifelong friends? Peaceful moments of reflection, feelings of joy and freedom you can't wait to experience again and again? Or is it the vehicles that help you make all those special moments possible? Whatever

your answer is, Toyota is here to bring you closer to the things that matter to you. Because they matter to us too. Toyota for what matters most. Hello everyone welcome to a very special episode being recorded in a hotel again as usual. being recorded in a hotel again as usual. The rumors are true, it's May. And we're 5 12ths done, technically 4 12ths done, we're a third done. 12th done, yeah. We're a third done.

Now that's the beginning of our, the second, what would you say instead of like, you know how like finance pros are like, oh, in Q2, the second quarter. Q1, Q2, a trimester. Yeah, so you're in your second trimester now, congratulations everybody. We're in our second trimester of the year.

The baby is, Kicking it? It's starting to outgrow, it's starting to create a lot of problems. Maybe we now have fingernails and we're not causing people morning sickness. Is that what second trimester is? Typically that's when you get a boost of energy.

You start feeling the the nesting starts to kick in. Okay. You feel less nauseated usually hopefully. And you find out the sex of the baby and there's a lot of exciting things in the second trimester. So happy happy second trimester everyone. We did it. Oh my gosh, folks. And what did we have to go through? Only four months of hell being in the United States, but we did it. We got a third of the way through it. Congratulations. Christine, tell everybody while we're in our Kansas City hotels,

tell us about your silly little hat. What's going on? Oh my gosh. I love my little hat. He's a rainbow trout. I'm all about it. We were at this place called- Ozark land. Ozark land, thank you. And we were driving through Missouri

and of course, Em fell asleep. So I veered off the highway and went to Ozark land. Promptly Em woke up and said, Oh good, I'm glad I've woken up for this. You can't get past me on a souvenir. If you thought you were going to get away with it, and then by the time I woke up, we were back on the road. I tested to see every time. Obviously, I wouldn't actually let that happen. I would never deprive you of that. But I can smell like a shop. Yeah. Sometimes I want to, sometimes it's like Em has

a scent for like candy apples fudge. Like literally the moment we're in like a mile vicinity, Em's like has a sense for like candy apples fudge like literally the moment we're in like a mild vicinity and it's like You know souvenirs with Confederate flags on them here I come and we were just walking around there going Oh, it's cool because you go into these stores and you're like, wow There are people from every walk of life because it's just right off the highway So it's like I always forget driving through if you're like a local there are are people from everywhere. And it was a wild, they had a whole shelf of just Elvis slippers and glass bells. I mean, it's just a weird place. Deep Southern Christian aisles of things.

What was the one I loved? I turned around and I was like, oh, you guys, you guys know this. You guys know this about me There's one thing you know about me, and I think I also and I've always had that There's a there was a shirt that said if the stars if the stars are made to worship than so am I and I went so Will I yeah, oh my So not our usual stop, but I'll tell you, it's a kitschy looking store from the outside,

of course, it draws the eye. You gotta pull it in and see what's going on in there. Well, it's written in Captain Howdy. Like the name of the place is written in Captain Howdy font, like literally. So it feels very- It looks like a circus. It's even red and white striped and everything.

Yeah, it feels very apropos. And I am now at the venue, or not the venue, I'm at the hotel. Hey, I'm at the venue already Yeah, a day early. I'm at the hotel now. I've got I went and got iced for the first time At a nice I've never really gotten ice and I I'm with I'm with those people on the memes who are like What is the big deal about ice at a hotel and I'm like, I don't get it either. But what do you mean? I don't know about this meme. It's like And I'm like, I don't get it either, but today. What do you mean?

I don't know about this meme. It's like millennials being like, wait, why is everyone obsessed with ice at a hotel? What are we doing with the ice? Are we like, what are we using it for? And I'm like, great point. What are we using it for? I've never gotten ice at a hotel,

but there's always just a big ice room and there's always people walking around with buckets of ice. I mean, this time I have literally white wine that I took from yesterday's menu. So I I was like I'm gonna be really trashy and put ice cubes into my paper cup of white wine. That's about the extent of my use of the hotel ice but that feels a little backwards because you would think if a hotel is offering ice it would also offer an ice bucket so you don't have to use it in the paper cup. Oh I have an ice bucket! Oh I just also put ice in my cup because my wine was warm.

Okay sure I don't I've only ever thought that the ice would be to like sit a drink in. I don't know what other people are doing. Yeah right but it's like how many how many of us are going and like making cocktails or whatever in the hotel room? I feel like it just feels like an outdated thing. But then people in the comments were like, oh, I literally just go get buckets of ice and eat the ice. And I'm like, why are we acting like this is normal behavior? I mean, I like eating ice also, but I feel like in a hotel,

depending on the quality of the hotel, I would not touch that fucking ice to eat it. I don't think I want to eat that, you know? Yeah. It's just weird. I just am like, and then of course I wander down. I'm so self-conscious. I'm wandering around with this bucket and everyone's like, she's getting ice. We know where she's going.

She's getting ice. And I'm like, everyone knows I'm getting ice. If they know, can they tell you? Because I don't know either. Know what? Oh, what the ice is for? Yeah. Great question I should have asked.

I mean, I like, I always travel with like a portable, like cooler, like an insulated cooler. What? You do? I learned so much about you every time we go somewhere. So maybe I would put ice on that if I was trying to keep something cold. So I guess. And so people said that, but it was like,

but how often is that a thing that they have to like make ice such a big deal? Like what floor is the ice on? Oh, the floor is, the often is that a thing that they have to make ice such a big deal? What floor is the ice on? Oh, the ice is on this floor. There's ice on every floor. Or maybe back in the day, it was a bigger deal to have an ice maker. I guess, I don't know.

There's something else that's so ominous about those little rooms with the ice maker. They feel like really small back rooms. They do! They feel like a back room! That's exactly it. And every time I'm in there, I feel so self-conscious, like, oh my God, everyone can see me in here. Again, I've only been in one once and it was today.

So that is when I say every time I'm in one. Anyway, this is called And That's Why We Drank. We read every month, listener submitted stories. This time, Eva got us a few. She did say there were true crime ones in here. And she did give us also extra stories in case. We didn't the ones were not great, but also we don't read them until we're reading them out loud. Is Eva new? What's going on?

It would be a wild choice if we were like, cut that whole thing. I mean, it is fair. Like maybe. Maybe it's your intents or something. Yeah, maybe something like that. choice if we were like cut that whole thing I mean it is fair like maybe maybe it's your intense or something yeah maybe something like that but um I was like well I guess we'll never get to the extras because we won't know until we're done with the story yeah so it'll be an interesting time for us all is what I'm trying to say so to all the people that are we're reading your story today maybe at the end we'll go, that sucked, let's cut that. And then we'll keep it in just so you know

that we didn't like it. How about that? Yeah, you'll feel it. Happy May. Happy May. Thank you. Would you like to read the first story, Christine? I'll read it, yeah.

This is called my grandma's third man story. Ooh. I know. I called Eva a third man. I said, you're like a third man. And I don't want to know the called Eva a third man. I said you're like a third man and I I don't want to know the context. Okay, I don't I don't know it either. So it's fine But you're right. She does feel like When we're does she like comes in and it's like it's gonna be okay

And then it's like was she real was she an angel? I don't know I mean that was literally what she did when we crashed into a snowbank and she went, I'll figure it out. Like a third man. Actually, you also, you literally were like, we're at mile marker 134. Yeah, like you were so, you both were so in it. What was that fucking phone call, by the way?

Because no, Eva got someone on the phone and I just out loud, like I shout. Eva was on the phone with Katie, who does a lot of, who does our admin and a lot of like travel logistics and a lot of just behind the scenes work. And we're on the phone with Katie trying to figure out like how, like we're driving five miles per hour.

This is crazy. All of a sudden we start just like careening off the road very slowly, but very intentionally. And Em grabs the phone. Oh yes. Like plucks it out of her hand. Like not like grabs it yes. Like plucks it out of her hand, like not like grabs it aggressively, just plucks it out of Eva's hand and goes.

Mid-crashing. Katie, it's M. We're crashing the car right now and we're at mile marker 134. Do you mind finding someone to save us? And then. That's right, I did do that. Here's Eva. And Eva got back on and Katie's like,

tow trucking coming incoming. I totally forgot about that. But yeah, I remember like what I I knew what was coming. So I just grabbed the phone and I went, hey, in about five seconds, we're about to be in a snow day. We are driving into a tree. Goodbye. Cruel world. It was it was really chaotic. That moment, though, I will never forget. I'm taking going, we're at mile marker.

I'm like the fact that you already clocked the mile marker, like, come on. As soon as we got on the road in a blizzard, I was like, maybe I should know where I am. It was amazing how you were on top of it. By the way, this is where I give a big thumbs down to California because I hate that it is not normal in LA to have mile markers.

Like they don't have- Oh yeah, it is weird. I feel like that's a thing in- I hate it. On the East coast and like Midwest, but I don't know Like they don't have that. Oh yeah, it is weird. I feel like that's a thing in like I hate it. On the East coast and like Midwest, but I don't know why California doesn't do that. But also it's so It doesn't make any sense.

Okay, I guess there's no snow banks to crash in just so you don't need to know what fucking mile marker you're at. They're like, you might die of dehydration on the side of the road and that's fine. But I feel like it's If there were a snow bank, maybe we'd tell you where you are.

It's as someone who grew up in an area that had mile markers. It feels so irresponsible to not have them. I agree. And the way you just jumped in with the mile marker, you were like such a dad. You were like, we're at mile marker this and this. I'm like, the only person I've ever say we're at mile marker is my stepdad. And so when you said that, I was like, wow, M is like we're going north bound.

I wouldn't even know how to say that. By mile marker something or other. Anyway, hi Lemon and co it says. Oh, that's okay. We're in the story now. Okay. We're in the story. I'm really bad at intro. So let's just crack into it. When I was younger, I was raised by my grandmother, Nancy.

She was an amazing strong woman. And sadly I lost her too soon at the age of 60. Oh, that's really young. To lung cancer. As we near the 10 year anniversary of her death I thought I would share one story she told me that has always stuck with me. I never knew about the third man syndrome until I heard the episode where Em had covered it. I thought oh that sounds like that experience that my grandma had. Let me elaborate. My grandmother has struggled with her health for most of her life as she had Crohn's disease We survived breast cancer and had to have multiple back surgeries due to running herself over with her truck

Is this me also this also feels like a very Christine story She has Crohn's disease and also she drove herself over with her own car oops That does sound like something you would just say oops to the next day Oh, you didn't know that about me? You would just move in silence about it and then say it like three weeks later and be like, oh, yeah When I got ran over last month, you remember what now? Yeah, I'd be like you were there and you were like, no I wasn't I was like you didn't tell me the mile marker. That was a third man syndrome. I thought you were there You were my third man in that moment

And by the way when you found the mile marker you were our third man in that moment and it was super powerful I do what I can When my grandmother was in her late 40s, six months before I was born, she was admitted into the hospital. I'm unaware as to why as some of the details are foggy. She was not getting any better and continued to get sicker and sicker. She said she had made peace with the fact that she was going to die there. She told me a nurse came into her room, one who she did not recognize. The nurse came to her bedside and told her something along the lines of,

do not trust this doctor. They are trying to kill you. Your IV is just sugar water. You cannot die yet. You know what pisses me off is that my third man would not fucking show up. He'd go, this is karma. And so you know what I would do? I would like take an airplane and go, sorry,

what did you say? And it'd be too late. And I missed the whole message. Like I would have been like, excuse me, what? It's moments like that where I'm like, there must be a reason that people are here because why would there, why would someone come and intervene? But then I also wonder, is anyone protecting us? Like, is there like, like a I got like a super is there a god like being because How come he didn't show up and some like little minion had to do it for him be like by the way If the stars are made to worship so will I you know

Like but like if you have if someone has the power to come down and warn you about the sugar water Couldn't they've just like prevented the sugar water earlier like why do we have to come down and warn you about the sugar water, couldn't they have just like prevented the sugar water earlier? Like, why do we have to be halfway through this? You know what I'm saying? You know why? Because we're having this conversation and it's so mind altering and it's like,

oh, maybe it all happened, so. That's right, it was because of us. It's for us. It was just a special treat for us. Okay, sorry, to get back to the story, holy fuck, that's crazy. And if a nurse said that to me, I'd be like, Hey, I'm gonna call your supervisor and be like, they're this person needs a nap. Let them go home. Something's not well with them. I think my

first thought my first thought would be I would ask the nurse I guess they're probably in and out and not able to do that. But sitting over here, I would think why didn't they ask the nurse like why the fuck do you work here if you're if you work for doctors killing people on purpose? Yeah, like, yeah, I guess it would be so like, sorry, if you know that, shouldn't you do something about it? Anyway, please. Yeah, well, the they walked away. OK, when my kids literally what says and they walked away. When my grandfather came into the room later that day, she told him what had happened.

After this, the information isn't clear exactly what happened but I was told that my grandfather demanded a different doctor and my grandma ended up getting better. My grandma told me this doctor was later charged with malpractice but I cannot verify this. I'll never know if her IV actually had sugar water or if this was a metaphor. My grandma always said this was her guardian angel. I'm not sure exactly what to think of it, but I am sure grateful for whoever or whatever that was that day, because if they were not there,

I would not have been raised by such an amazing, strong woman. Thank you guys for being my besties while I drive to work, do housework, and while I'm awake at all hours with my six-month-old, hee-hee, can't wait to see you guys at the Arizona show, which still hasn't happened yet. So we're gonna see you soon Kylie

She hurt says thank you for that and then Our that's in May right so this will come out before before our happy May hey, oh my gosh how exciting That I wouldn't know what to do if some I Don't know what's going on. I think I would have thought I'm just having a whole like I'm just I guess they gave me too many Painkillers and I'm like hallucinating I like a but it also seems like grandma waited for her husband to come and be like Hey something weird happened like you know it's not like this immediate Reaction of like oh my god. They're killing me. know, it's like she waited for her husband to be like, yeah, that's fucking weird, we're getting you a new doctor.

You know what's interesting though, is I feel like you have to hope that grandpa is like one of the good ones because if I told Allison, if I were her. I know, I know. She would tell me I had a bad dream and would let the doctor kill me. They would literally, they would be like, can you just increase the sugar water dosage?

They're having a really bad day. Yeah, you gotta hope that you've got a real one on your side. Unfortunately, I do not, but I'm so glad that your grandma did. But honestly, Em, doesn't that make you wonder, maybe they show up in a way that will work? Like, that will work.

I guess so, yeah. Maybe this wouldn't have worked for us because we would have been like too polite and or like Self-deprecating to believe that it happened But like maybe there are certain ways that it happens for people who do have unsupportive partners that don't really believe Well, if you're listening up there don't go to Allison be so specific Please go to Christine go to Christine go to Christine not blades not to Christine, not Blades, not Alison. We'll handle it, it's fine.

Yeah, 100%, yeah. Okay, well, yeah, so how do you feel about that story? I think we can keep that one in. Okay, what's the star rating? No, imagine every time we're like, that one was really good. Next up. Imagine if I go, like a three out of five.

Like imagine, that's so fucking crazy. Oh, thanks for sharing this beautiful heartfelt story about your loved one. It's not very good, no. I thought that was a lovely story and I love that people talk about, I love that you didn't know what a third man's story was, but knew your grandma's story and went,

oh weird, that sounds kind of like me. Like that, I love that we're putting words to things that have happened for so long. I love that. We're responsible for For all the molding the minds of the next generation. Sure. Yeah, that is what that probably means Do you eat food Do you go anywhere? Do you stream stuff? Well then, get the RBC ION Plus Visa and earn 3 times the points at grocery stores and restaurants, as well as on gas, EV charging, daily transit, streaming services, digital gaming, and more,

all the time. Get the RBC ION Plus Visa. Conditions apply. Visit rbc.com slash ion cards. This next one is from Allie. He uses she her pronouns. Thank you for normalizing pronouns. And Allie says, hi, I want to write in and talk about the murder of my aunt Alice.

Oh, I bet Allie is named after Alice. That's what I bet. I didn't even think about that. This took place in Columbus, Ohio. In November 62, the newspaper article that was published stated that she was, quote, slain by an irate boyfriend. But that is not the truth. No.

And as always, there was so much more to the story. That was written like the intro to like Desperate Housewives or something. As we know, like it feels like, oh, the narrator is talking to us. Xoxo gossip girl. Yeah. 100%. Alice was born in 45 to Claire and Johnny Wilcoxon. And Johnny had saved Claire from her abusive family when she was just 16. She or sorry,

he walked her home from her job as a babysitter one evening. And when Claire went in, her mother was drunk and angry and began beating her. Johnny ran in and told Claire's mother not to touch her and they left together and they had three daughters together, Alice, Rayetta and Deborah. Oh my gosh. What a beautiful assortment of very different names. Rayetta, you never hear.

It's Ray and Etta put together. Rayetta is really pretty. So wait, Alice, Rayetta, and what was the other one? Deborah. Deborah, yeah, what a fun little, I don't know, slice of history. What a little rat pack, yeah. Yeah.

Johnny was often unfaithful to Claire, and they separated but remained close. And Claire frequently stated that they had met too young and weren't ready for that kind of commitment. Um, but she loved him her whole life. Aww. As a result, Alice was brought up by a single mother, uh, a single mother to three kids in the forties and fifties.

They frequently went without and it wasn't uncommon for Alice to see Claire crying at the kitchen table over bills she couldn't afford. Jesus Christ, that like that's his own very deep trauma. Yeah, the financial trauma. Yeah, that's really scary. The family didn't have a good reputation due to the things Claire had to do to help her family survive. Oh, gosh. A lot of women in society looked down on Claire and her children and this upbringing could have made Alice bitter but instead it gave her immense empathy and she found ways to keep her to help her community in any way that she could and Alice took up a babysitting job to help the family

and to get a little spending money for herself. So when Alice was 16, she met a man named Jim Click. It's a fun little last name. That is a, that feels like the most made up name. Like if I were writing a short story, I feel like somebody would be like, you can't use that. That's a made up name. Click feels like, like she's so like punchy. Like she's so, Jim Click.

I mean, imagine though, if you had a teacher named like Miss Click, like that would have never left your mind. Like you would have been, you remembered her for the rest of your life. I remember her for the rest of my life. No, Jim Click feels, I feel like he has got like, I don't know what's going on there,

but he knows, I feel like Jim Click knows how to insult you really good. I just can't stop seeing the paperclip, Clippy. Really? Interesting. I don't know why, is it, I mean, it's supposed to speed clip and click and I'm just like in my brain I'm like word art association you know. I know it's not a click but more of a snap but I just keep thinking of Jim Click is like like just kind of like an like attitude

because it's sort of like click quick snappy it just kind of works I get it. So Alice when she she was making some money for herself, she was 16, she met Jim Click and she met him at the local pizza and soda shop and she thought he was cute and he struck up a conversation with her. I hope they talked about how cute his last name is. He told her that he was 18 and slept at the pizzeria because he was an orphan and didn't have a family. Oh, Jim Click. Oh, my God. Jim Click sounds like an orphan. Like literally the name Jim Click sounds like. You want to know why? Because it sounds a little like Jiminy Cricket and like, isn't he supposed to be?

But what's the other one? Oliver Twist. Yeah. Cricket and Twist together makes Click a little bit. Yeah. Some of these people must be like, can you read my goddamn story? Yeah, I mean, some of them, all of them must be like, this is, this is insufferable is what it probably feels. I imagine it must be insufferable. And I, it's like, I want to apologize. And I do over and over, but it's like, I also can't, I'm not going to stop.

So why am I even apologizing? You sent this in knowing what would happen here. You know what I'm saying? Don't act like click wasn't something that you were like these people will never get past it like a rice like a grain Of rice for a vampire. We just like it halts us in our track. Yeah, let's get back to your orphan grandpa now, okay? Or Uncle or he he was 18 He sleeps at the pizzeria because he doesn't have a family and he was extremely attracted to her and frequently

Asked her out she wasn't interested in dating as they had just met and she didn't trust men for you reasons Especially after seeing some of the things her mother and sisters went through Alice being empathetic and kind started bringing him meals every so often. Um, he lives at a pizzeria. He's fine Oh, wait a minute. Yeah, he literally lives at a pizzeria, he's fine. Wait a minute! Yeah, he literally lives at a pizzeria. Can you imagine Willy Wonka going, I just live in this chocolate factory, I'm so hungry. It's like, bitch, you live in a chocolate factory. I'm just so attracted to you and so hungry. It's like, wait a minute.

Don't play me. I mean, I really... For all we know, he really actually doesn't have any food. Oh, I don't know, doesn't he kill her? So I don't love this story? I don't know. I'm already mad at him and I don't know if that's been it did say that wasn't true. So I could be wrong Yeah, I forgot that Jim Click was gonna be a bad guy in this Well, I don't know though because I said it's not true Like I don't know how much of it is remember it said that's not what happened I love that I'm like, there's no way to know what happened. Maybe I can let you keep talking

I was gonna say my fear part of this is if I just write it we would have the information We refuse to do it It's way too easy that way. Happy May. So We've made it four months. We made a trimester. How do you feel? It will take us four months to get through this fucking story Alice being empathetic and kind starts bringing him meals every so often so she can make sure he was fed and she knew it was Sorry, i'm just still laughing at your last comment. That was very funny. I don't remember it so but could make sure he was fed. And she knew it was, sorry, I'm just still laughing at your last comment. That was very funny.

I don't remember it, but I'm sure it was good. She knew it was a struggle and she wanted to use her little extra cash to help her community. She later discovered that Jim was actually 29 and while she still felt bad for him, lying about it- He said he was 18?

That's 11 years old. That's not even like a fudge of a number. That's fucking crazy. That's like almost his whole age again. Please you can't, that's literally double, you can't do that. And while she still felt bad for him lying about his age to try and date her made her extremely uncomfortable. Yeah She decided to distance herself from him and this made him extremely angry. Okay, so Jim Click's not good. He's not cute. He's not a good guy.

I remember earlier when I said I know it's not a snap, but it sounds like Jim Click maybe Jim snapped. You know what I'm saying? It feels like he should be, yeah, at least part of that show. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think that it's always women on that show because it's like, oh, they snap. No, they don't snap.

They've just lived a life of- No, I'm saying he snapped in a different way. No, I know. And I'm saying maybe they should make it about him instead of all the women they usually feature where they're like, oh, she snapped. No, she was being abused or whatever. I mean, a lot of times, yes.

We can make the sequel. Yeah, let's do that. We'll just, Yeah, okay. We'll shop it. Snap 2. Uh, so... This one's men only. So, Jim Click is pissed. Trouble, yeah, okay.

He accused her of leading him on because she was feeding you when you said you had no food. Yuck. I fucking smelled trouble on him when he lives in a pizzeria Yeah, you knew it immediately. You knew immediately you were like, why are you feeding him? Oh, and she reminded him that she had clearly said she wasn't interested. Okay, okay Several months later Alice noticed that a man had been following her home from her babysitting jobs. Oh my god This scared the most sinister sentence you've ever said

This scared her and she informed the police and the police simply told her to be careful. Of fucking course. Of fucking course. Of course. Then why would you walk home from your babysitting job if you didn't want to get followed? I'm glad we had a few laughs earlier on

because here's the next sentence. One night, that man grabs her and drags her behind a shed. And he attempts to sexually assault her, but Alice fought him off and ran home. Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. She told the police that she was sure it was Jim Click, but had no proof. And I really- Proof?

It's like, what, you need proof? What do you mean? I know the guy and he put me behind his shed, but I guess that's not enough proof. To a cop who didn't wanna be there, I guess there's no proof. She was more careful after that and went out with friends and she was sitting in a restaurant with a few other girls

and then Jim Click spotted her. He grabbed her purse and told her he'd give it back if she went on a date with him. I hate this man. Alice flat this bitch. I love her. Alice said you can keep it. Take my purse. Take my money. I don't give a shit. I hope you have a good time spending the money I make babysitting. Yeah. Have fun with my five dollars.

By the way, had you not been a creepy person. I would have spent on you anyway, so you could I already fetched. Yeah fucker Then she left with her friends and that night when Jim went through her purse He found a letter. She had written to a friend talking about a boy in class. She had a crush on This is when they're saying like oh, we well, do this different, do this different. No, no, at a certain point. You know what I was worried about, though, is that what if she had an idea on her and in her purse was her address?

Well, that's what I thought. The letter has her address, I assumed. I thought it was like a return address or something. Oh, no, I think she's just like writing and it's like, oh, there's a boy that's cute and it's not him. And that's what pisses him off. So he can probably find her anyway The next morning. Oh, yeah, he's already been following right he knows where she lives. Yeah

The next morning Jim went to his place of work and made the manager open the safe Okay, he took the gun out of the safe and told the manager not to say anything. What? Who is this manager? Then he went to the apartment where Alice was babysitting. Oh, oh my God. And when she opened the door, he began arguing with her. Alice closed the door, but Jim knocked again. And when she opened the door, Jim said,

here's your letter back and unloaded the gun point blank. And he shot her three times in that. And it's like, why would that ever be the thing you think would happen? Like, it's like the escalation is so. Unhinged, like you would never be like, well, this person's just going to shoot me. Like you'd be like, God, this guy's so annoying, he won't leave me alone. I'm going to open the door and be like, get the fuck out of here. I'm calling the police. And then you open the door and be like, get the fuck out of here. I'm calling the police.

And then you open the door and he's already ten steps more violent than you expected. I mean, nightmare. He shot her three times point blank. Once in the head and twice in the heart. Jesus fuck my life. And he left and returned the gun to a different pizzeria Which like he returned it here you go. It's not a fucking library book The irony is that is what cops would call proof I guess maybe like that now that she's that it's every stalking story

Like this is how it ends. I know when it's too late Only it's always always a stalker and dangerous oh good I'm dead thanks that's terrible that's so fucking sad and also she was babysitting with a friend so like imagine the friend hurt all that the trauma of the kid that you're babysitting a baby oh my god you hope it's like an infant who doesn't know I hope I really do Johnny Alice's father Was called to identify the body and he said she's still oh my god what? He said she still had a tear on her face What the fuck That's like Alice

He began drinking and later passed due to complications from alcohol abuse. Of course, of course. In court, Jim pleaded guilty to first-degree murder and the judge refused to accept the plea and said that he didn't think that Jim understood the seriousness of the plea and they had to go to trial. The newspaper printed, babysitter slain by irate boyfriend. And some women in the community had told the news that Alice was probably dating around. Oh, isn't that great? Several-

Women supporting women, love it. Love to see it. Especially when the last thing she ever saw was maybe that letter that she read about another guy. So now she's a whore, you know? A crush, and she's a teenager. She's a child She's a minor this man is 29 years old Several horrible rumors spread around town about Alice Johnny and Claire were told not to talk to the news or reporters So they never corrected it Jim was sent to prison, but was released in the 70s because he had terminal cancer. I feel no pity for you

And he died at home, and he got sugar water in his IV and at the end. One can hope. See if you're gonna be a killer can't you kill other killers? Like can't you be like a Dexter situation? My grandma Claire used to say she was worried that she wouldn't go to heaven because she could never forgive the man who killed her Oh No, like you're putting these people in the most turbulent emotional and psychological turmoil And they have to live the rest of their lives going am I not gonna get into heaven because I'm still so Deeply hurt by what you did to my sister like that's

Bonkers to me. I'm no pastor, but that ain't how heaven works in my book. I wanna be so clear. I promise you that's not how it works. I'm pretty sure you get to go to heaven and he doesn't. I'm pretty sure it's okay that you're mad. Yeah, like it's really, like I understand the fear of like, oh, I'm not doing like the forgiveness thing. And I know some people can do that,

but I don't think you get any flex for struggling to forgive somebody. No, I think that's not fair to ask of you. Grandma and Johnny have both passed, and I didn't want Alice to side with the story to die with them. He wasn't her boyfriend. He was a 29-year-old man. I'm going to do you one better, because you didn't even write this, but I'm going to say he was a 29-year-old sexually assaulting stalker

who then murdered her. Yeah Obsessed with a 16 17 year old girl. It's important that people know that that's very true. Very true Remember like when we were that age and it was like, oh creepy guy like creepy old men and now like oh What the fuck like if somebody talked to Leon I she was 16 and they were like a creepy old Perverted man, like it's just bananas to me that we were like, haha. I Know I know I can't believe it used to be like a silly little thing and I wonder if that's it has to be a combination But sometimes I'm like is it just cuz I was young and dumb or was like the world not talking about that So it's almost like it was more than well It was normalized it probably still is normalized and I don't think anyone was really that concerned unfortunately

Yeah, anyway, thank you. Allie for your story That is a deep one and also Ellie if you're not named after Alice Because it didn't occur to me when I'm said it but like maybe you couldn't take that Yeah, Ali Alice like that's really cute. I love that. I love that you could have a similar. Well in the email, it's short for Alicia. So I'm wondering if.

Oh! Oh! Or maybe Alicia Alice, I don't know. With the have a C? Like a C, yeah. Oh, so it really is close. That's kind of beautiful. Okay, so now really is close. That's kind of beautiful. Okay, so now I have this.

This is from, oh, okay, interesting. So I'm gonna cover next month, well, the current month if you're listening to this, but, and you're not M, but next month. So May is a month which Serf and I have already been discussing is Miss and murdered indigenous persons month and or awareness month. And on May 5th is missing and murdered indigenous persons day. And this is, um,

us and Canada. Um, and it's just to draw attention and bring awareness of, um, the extreme disparity between missing people in other communities versus the the indigenous community and especially women and girls. So this story, it says preferred name and pronouns, Hati Meen, parentheses, Hattie mean parentheses white girl named Chelsea parentheses sorry M parentheses she her so we've got a did I say that right Hattie me hot hot hot to mean hot to mean I don't know where the emphasis is but hot hot to mean and I love Chelsea sorry M that's really good it's really you know what I'm glad that you know you've got you've got two names to choose from and I love Chelsea. Sorry, Em. That's really good. It's really good.

You know what? I'm glad that you've got two names to choose from. I love it. And you don't go with Chelsea maybe around me. You chose both so that you could punish Em a little bit with the Chelsea name. Cruel. Okay, cruel. So this is the story of the martyrs of sisters Lillian Lincoln and Janie Goodwin. Okay.

Hi, I'm Christine Leona Geo Juni and Lemon. My name is Hattie Mean, but due to generational trauma and strict white man laws, I go by my white girl named Chelsea. Am I am sorry, but despite what my husband will tell you, I'm not one of the bad ones. Despite what my husband would tell you. I'm writing in today, not husband's on my team, it sounds like. I know. I'm writing in today not only to share my family's

personal stories of missing and murdered indigenous people, MMIP, but also to shine a light on an MMIP awareness day observed on May 5th. This day is meant to honor those we've lost, fight for the justice they were denied, and demand actions that no more families have to endure this pain. I hope you can help amplify these stories.

Trust me, I'm going through a slate of stories with search and it is a doozy. Um, because saying their names, remembering them and sharing their cases is a step toward justice. I'd also love to extend a formal invitation to the ATWB team and all those listening to attend the Karuk tribes, MMIP awareness day walk. It will be Monday, May 5th in Eureka California I know it's a long shot and you all are busy but hey why not I've sent some of our program materials to your PO boxes oh I love this okay I'm an enrolled Karuk tribal member and my

journey as an MMI activist began with the murder of my aunt, Honey Babe Lillian Lincoln in 1997, when I was just three years old. Today in 2025, the Crook Tribe has an MMIP program, and I'm incredibly proud to be a part of it. Advocating for those victimized by MMIP and human trafficking. Please feel free to share my work information as we can help advocate for indigenous families impacted by the crisis. And we'll put that in the show notes for sure if anyone needs access to that. Now to my family stories.

My aunt, Honey Babe, was a loving mother of five and the eldest of eight siblings. On my grandma's side, my biological grandfather had so many kids I don't even know half of them. Wow. She was raised by her mother, Shirley Lincoln, and her adoptive father, Emmett Lincoln. She was known for being caring, strong, and an all-around fun person to be around. She was diagnosed with MS, which slowly took over her body. As her condition worsened, she turned to street drugs to self-medicate, leading her into a difficult life. By 1997, she had become so weak that she could no longer walk, get dressed, or complete daily tasks alone.

She was also in a relationship with an extremely abusive man with multiple reports of him harming her. One heartbreaking example, he once abandoned her and her two young children in the middle of nowhere to go get high. Witnesses saw her six and seven-year-old children taking turns pushing her wheelchair trying to get her home. Whoa. Oh my God. Whoa. The next police report about honey babe was about her death. The Humboldt County Sheriff's Department was reluctant to even take the call because it was on tribal land.

They've made it clear before that they quote, don't like dealing with Indian problems. When they find, yeah. When they finally did respond, they grossly mishandled the crime scene, failing to tape it off, collect evidence, or question suspects. Because she was a known addict, and the people she was with were also addicts, a sheriff coroner ruled her death an accidental drowning.

This was despite the fact that her body was found completely unclothed, face down in a bathtub, with her wheelchair nowhere in sight. Hello? It was easy for them to write it off as an accident face down in a bathtub with her wheelchair nowhere in sight. Hello. It was easy for them to write it off as an accident and blame it on her MS. But the reality is, by that point, she couldn't even complete daily tasks on her own. So the idea that she somehow started a bath, unbuttoned her shirt, removed all of her clothing, got herself out of her wheelchair is impossible.

Did I mention that coroners in California do not need a medical degree? You did not, but other podcasters have, and it's very interesting. They don't need a medical degree or any medical training. Their job is an elected position as it is in many counties. Insane. Yep. And in my aunt's case, the corner had no medical background whatsoever. So you wouldn't even know the basics of that MS patients can't right he could have literally been like what's MS anyway? She drowned anyway. It's obvious. There's water here Thanks, okay for years my family fought to get honey babes case reopened

But they were ignored and dismissed at every turn that is until I Mean this is like what I'm like is it not obvious to everybody Her three-year-old niece grew up to be the bad bitch who refuses to be silenced I mean, this is like what I'm like, is it not obvious to everybody? Her three-year-old niece grew up to be the bad bitch who refuses to be silenced. I've been bringing light to her case since 2020. In 2022, I spoke publicly for the first time on a panel standing in front of legislators, senators, and the governor. And my four-year-old dressed as Spider-Man happily waving at me while I was on stage.

Demanding justice for MMIP. Bringing justice to my Aunt Honey Babe also meant reopening old wounds for my family. I had to do my own research about her since I never really got the chance to know her or remember what she was like. That meant sitting down with my family, her children, her remaining siblings, and her parents to hear their stories. I can't even begin to describe what it's like to listen to your 80 year old grandmother mourn her child. 28 years after honey babes murder her sister would also fall victim to MMIP. Janie was 38 years old. She was known for her beauty, her loving heart, her free spirit. She had a laugh that could fill a room and a way of making people feel special even in the smallest moments.

She loved music and if a good song came on no matter where she was she'd start dancing like no one was watching. She had a playful side too, always teasing her siblings or making jokes just to see people smile. And just like Honey Babe she was a mother of five loving children with everything she had. She had an adventurous soul and an undeniable strength even when life knocked her down. But like so many indigenous women Janie struggled with addiction and it led her to spend much of her time living on the streets of tribal land in rural Northern California.

On January 21st, 2025, so a couple months ago, Janie was found in a fetal position in her niece's home. A wig had been placed on her head. By the time her body was discovered, she was unrecognizable, already in an advanced state of decomposition. She had to be identified by her tattoos. Oh my God.

Once again, the sheriff's office mishandled the case, the crime scene. And again, let's just be clear, this was January, 2025. The crime scene was never taped off. No evidence was collected. And just like with Honey Babe, her death was never investigated because all they saw was an addict.

I can't speak more on this as it is very fresh and I want to protect the investigation we're trying to have done on her case. However I will say this Janie was so much more than that. She was love, she was laughter, she was a mother, a sister, a daughter, a friend. She was a person who deserved justice and she still does. I won't stop fighting to get justice for my aunts. I will not be silenced. The fact that it's aunts plural,

and it's like, yep, just another statistic, you know? Yeah. Mind boggling. If you made it through this novel of a story, bless your heart. Thank you for sticking with me. Thank you for taking the time to bring justice to my aunts and my people,

even if this isn't read during the show. And just to clarify, Em, I'm not one of the bad Chelsea's, I promise. I'm one of the good ones. I still don't believe you. I was like, after all that, you still haven't passed the test. If anyone reaches out to you for help

and their family is a part of MMIP, please give them my work information. You know what, I don't wanna put her email directly in the show notes. So if you are interested, can you please reach out and we'll send you the information to Chelsea's contact so that we don't dox her in our show notes. Cool.

Wow, what a story. I'm so sorry that that's normalized, quote unquote, normal. The fact that the statistics are so at odds with how it should be is really dark. Happy May. Before we left for this trip, M, I was so happy because my daily look box got dropped off right before I got on the plane.

And so I got to try everything on and I was like, oh, I look classy AF. No one's gonna even understand when I go to this Cincinnati, Kentucky airport, they're gonna be like, who's this high class celebrity? And that's how made me feel. I noticed, but I didn't wanna say anything. But you looked very shoo-shee.

I looked like garbaggio next to you. No, you don't. You gotta get on the daily look train and then you'll be fine. This podcast is sponsored by Daily Look, the number one highest rated premium personal styling service with daily look you get your own dedicated Personal stylist to curate a box of clothes based on your body shape preferences and lifestyle. It's not an algorithm It's real personal stylist and my stylist like wrote all these nice things and I said I'm looking for something really specific I am doing a podcast live show and it internet doesn't tell me what to wear.

And she's like, I've got you. You fill out their style quiz. You know, we love a quiz, including your price and lifestyle preferences. You get up to 12 hand selected items delivered to your home and then you buy what you love and send back the rest and daily look offers free shipping both ways. It's that easy. It's time to get your own personal stylist with Daily Look. Head to DailyLook.com to take your style quiz and use code DRINK for 50% off your first order.

Once again, that's DailyLook.com for 50% off and make sure you use our promo code DRINK so they know that we sent you. One last time, DailyLook.com and promo code DRINK. Okay, here we go. This is, uh, Elta, who uses your. What? Elta? Elta. From my brothers in my podcast. Oh my God, I literally scrolled to the end just to see. Anyway, I figured it was time to irritate Christine on this podcast instead of Beach She's Handy for once. I was like, Elta sends us so many Submissions and reviews and like good content for the show. Oh, okay, she's Sandy and I'm like, oh, it's Elta. Hi

Well, I'm like how many people are named out there probably just one you're like the one from my show and I was like I don't know. Okay Okay, this then yes, this is Elta. She's back. She's always there Then I'll see is she her pronouns. Thank you you for amazing pronouns and the subject line is the future murderer who slept in my grandparents garage Hello beautiful people I pestered my mom into telling me about this So I thought I'd share with you a truly tragic story. Thank you so much. No, that's so thoughtful Thanks in his youth. My uncle will call Rick, was friends with a kid named Bob Knott. Uh, as in Knott's Berry Farm.

Okay, K-I-N-O, yeah. Bob had a brother whose name I don't know, and they were both born on a reservation. I was told Bob watched his mom murder his dad. Oh my god. Which didn't help him get off to a great start in life. And by the way, this is not a great start to the month either, just the constant horrible tragic stories that we're reading back to back, Christy.

This is rough. No wonder Eva gave us backup stories that. Usually it's spooky, this is all super intense. Okay, so Bob had a brother, they both grew up on a reservation. Bob watched his mom murder his dad. Jesus. After that, Bob and his brother were put up for adoption and they were adopted by a kind, well-off family.

And my mother couldn't remember what they did for work, but they had enough money that they had their own private plane. Okay, see? What? This is the kind of May I wanna hear about. Hang on a moment. Happy May. Can you imagine,

like in those scenarios, you hear so many tragic stories of fostering, adopting, like, going, you know, usually fostering going wrong. And it's like, imagine just being like, here's our private plane, kids. Come on. It feels like the most like Annie. I was literally going to say, I think I'm going to like it here.

Unfortunately, oh, okay. Well, that was fun, wasn't it, Christine? Unfortunately, if that's where the story ended, we wouldn't be here. On a foggy night, the parents were flying the plane when it crashed into a lake and they drowned. What? Okay, this is becoming series of unfortunate events,

which also always deeply upset me because it was so close to being all fine and good. It really was. We could have just. That's so sad. Elta, go back to Beach of Sandy. This is really bombed out. What the fuck are you doing here, Elta?

You're ruining my day. After that, Bob and his brother were bounced around from foster home to foster home. Can you imagine getting a place with a fucking private loan? I mean, it feels- I have to go back into the system. I mean, it feels the universe is like fucking with you at that point. They're like, we're just here to make you miserable. Somehow he ended up in Southern Minnesota

and Bob befriended my uncle. When they were younger, my mom said he was the nicest guy and she loved having him around. And at some point, Bob started getting into trouble, financial and otherwise. He spent several nights sleeping in my grandparents' garage, either in their car or in the garage attic. And he ended up being institutionalized in Wisconsin for something like committing robbery.

Big, but OK. In 1988, Bob escaped. Oh, boy. And he went on the run using a car he jacked from an elderly couple. Oh, Bob. Bob. What a turn of events. Oh boy. And he went on the run using a car he jacked from an elderly couple. Oh, Bob. Bob! What a turn of events. Bob.

He made his way to my hometown, checked into a motel from a mile from where I grew up and called Rick, my uncle. Bob told Rick where he was and that his car broke down and he needed Rick's help. If you called me after I thought you were institutionalized in another state, I'd be like, babe, what happened? Are you okay?

Hey, I'm not down the street. Come see me. You'd be like, um. I got me a feeling I'm gonna say right where I am. Thank you so much. I've got me a feeling. I'm calling Eva, my third man, to intervene. Bob told, okay, so my uncle told him

he couldn't help that day, but he could the next day. Bob said, it has to be today I'll be gone tomorrow. What? The next day Rick went to see if Bob was still there But the hotel said he had checked out already Of course, my uncle didn't realize what had happened at the time, but he was just looking for his friend who asked for help Eventually the FBI called my grandma looking for Rick because phone records showed Bob calling that number from the hotel. See and that's what it's like sometimes

when I think I'm like oh maybe I should be more like people-pleasy like I usually am. It's like no this is what happens you end up trying to help somebody and then you call and then the FBI is like we see you called it's like well he called first. I didn't fucking call him out of the blue. It's like, now suddenly you're on the hook for this fucking crime. I mean. Yeah, no, this is what, this is the perk of being an introvert with phone anxiety.

Thank you. It's the one perk. We don't get many, but there is one and it's this. Bob made his way across the country and along the way he met up with his accomplice Jeffrey Frost. I'm so sorry but between hey what Jiminy Cricket-Click and Jeff Frost it's like this feels like a weird bad movie. Pinocchio like some sort of weird Disney spin-off like Jim Click and Jeff Frost

like are you kidding me? Jim Click and Bob whatever I mean this just all feels like and Bob whatever. I mean this just all feels like so strange. Bob Knot, Jim Click. Jeff Frost. Jeff Frost. And guess what Bob Knot and Jeff Frost did together. First they kidnapped an elderly couple in Nevada and stole their travelers checks. They left them bound and gagged in a hotel room and fled to Oregon. Oh my god. There they kidnapped another elderly man and stole his truck, then left him abandoned in the woods. And this is where things get really bad. Tons of trigger warnings for what's coming. Oh, shit, shit, shit.

The pair traveled to Eugene, Oregon and checked into a motel that was run by a husband and wife. When the husband left, Oregon and checked into a motel that was run by a husband and wife. When the husband left, Bob and Jeffrey held up the wife at gunpoint and forced her to empty the safe. Then they forced her and her infant daughter to wait until the husband came home. And once they did, they told them if they didn't cooperate, he would shoot their, they'd shoot his family. The next day, they forced the family to clear out the bank accounts it was around this time that Bob and Jeffrey figured out the police were after them and they hold they stayed there for several days and during that Bob assaulted the wife

repeatedly. Jesus Christ. Eventually Bob and Jeffrey took the family to some woods in Washington and left the husband there. And soon after that they spotted a patrol car and ran on foot and the wife and baby were able to escape only then. I literally wasn't even taking a full breath until I figured out if they survived this. That's so. Fucking dark. The next day, Bob and Jeffrey took more hostages and they made the hostages drive them until they got to a house where they could take even more hostages. And this is where the police caught them and a giant shootout began. Jeffrey was shot and killed, as was one of the hostages.

Bob was shot in the neck and that's when he was arrested. In court, he claimed that it was because of the hostages. Bob was shot in the neck, and that's when he was arrested. In court, he claimed that it was because of his schizophrenia that he committed these crimes, but the court didn't believe that that was enough for an insanity plea, and he was also drunk and on coke at the time, which I'm sure didn't work in his favor. Bob not received two life sentences for his crimes.

My uncle corresponded with him for a while in prison, and he told me that Bob spent a lot of time in solitary confinement. Eventually Bob died by suicide in prison and there is a movie that was made about him in 91 called Captive and Bob is played by John Stamos. What? Didn't see that coming at all.

What? Is Rick, does Rick get a feature in the movie? I wonder. What the fuck, dude? I haven't watched it yet and can't comment on how accurate it is, but my mom said the VHS tape they had originally recorded it on is probably still at her parents' house. Side note, John Stamos was recently in my hometown playing with the Beach Boys. My uncle said he wanted to go and hold up a sign that said Bob not lived here.

Oh, OK. Oh, anyway, love you both. I figured it was time to irritate Christine on this podcast, like you just said. So, OK, wow. Thanks, Alta. Holy shit. Jesus Christ. This is like. This is like everybody, you know, when we talk about like everybody has a story you don't even know. Like you know somebody for a long time and then you're like, I never told you about the time that what was it? Moving in silence, moving in silence.

Literally, like I drove over myself with my car four times. Oh, I never told you that. You know, it's like that kind of thing of like. Oh, well, to just pop it in here to tell you about this horrible thing that happened. Oh, my God. OK, well, thank you, Elta. Now go back to Be True Sandy. Yeah. Actually, just go away because that was crazy. I don't even know you, Elta. It's usually pretty, pretty good. It's usually stuff I can use for my art, you know, as Em likes to say.

And this one just felt like a big bummer. Okay. This is a story sent in by Andrea She Her. It says, your, oh, weird. Your comment on Beeshoe Sandy reminded me of an unsolved murder in a town I lived in. What is going on? It's like I'm doing so much for the world without even realizing.

Did Eva just look up Beeshoe Sandy in our emails just to see what would happen? That's what I wonder, maybe, but this is only the second one. It says, hey Eva, Em, and Christine, I was just listening to your episode of Beach Too Sandy, Water Too Wet, which I love that they're like,

I was listening to your episode. In case you forgot, this is the name of it. Yeah, about storage units, episode 141, and you said something that made me stop in my tracks and say, oh oh my god Christine needs to know about Candace Hiltz. Years back I moved to Canyon City Colorado with my shitty ex-boyfriend barf emoji. It had recently come out that the former Fremont County detective lieutenant Robert Dodd's storage unit had gone to auction and the new owner found evidence linked to the 2006 homicide of 17 year old Candace hilts.

Hmm. Candace had, oh my God. Candace had been really outspoken about how corrupt the police force is in town and she ended up being mysteriously killed in her home. While I can't speak to her experience, I do have my own experiences of corrupted negligent law enforcement. I'm like, what did I say on Beach Two Sandy? ACAP? Like I don't know to her experience. I do have my own experiences of corrupt and negligent law enforcement I'm like, what did I say on Beach to Sandy a cap? Like I don't know what I said Anything anything at all, right anything. Yeah, but but that's the story for another time Anyway, I highly recommend this the docu-series Valley of the Damned episode on her Also, if you watch the episode about leah porter, they do an interview in the restaurant

I worked at and you can see a painting that I painted hanging on the wall in the background. Wow. They must have filmed shortly after my breakup because my ex had stolen or sold my paintings by the time I came back to get my stuff. Fuck that guy and fuck the cops. Thank you, Andrea. And then it says, PS, I'll send this as a story.

But if you read this far, I may as well mention it here There's a woman named Casey Yoder who's oh, I know about Casey Yoder is missing from my home town of Eaton, Colorado There has not been any new information on her in months and her family still does not have answers So also good good to look at Jesus right. This is the most upset. What is going on? I don't know Eva had a had a different rough a different pattern this time around it was I think you could just cried her way through the inbox Yeah, I think I think evil wanted to feel something and she was like, let's just I hope how dark can we go?

I hope she's feeling something now And I hope it's eek. Yeah, I think she's giggling somewhere that she's put us through this. Okay. Um Okay, the next one is let me make sure that I say the right name. This is from Trina He uses she her pronouns. Thank you for my pronouns and the subject line is long When you throw away something innocuous, but it's kind of connected to a murder, less a listener story and more a piece of advice. That's like the title of those old ass books I am always reading. You know, when I read 40,000 words and you're like, you are the first person to write a

book you didn't need to make it. It's like I just now I don't have to read it because I just I know exactly what happens the whole way through. Right, you gave the whole appendix and you gave the whole summary in the title. Yeah, good point. Well, here we go. This is from Trina. Trina says, hi to everybody.

And then, as someone old enough to be Christine and Em's mother, I'm often surprised at how much I related to the two, except at times when they talk about topics such as suitcases without wheels being ancient artifacts. Okay, we did that again for the episode that comes out tonight at midnight. Cause I remember you being like,

remember how about and we talk about that a lot. So sorry, Trina in advance that's coming up very soon. Well, every Sunday I listen while I'm taking my dog Jasper for a hike in a nearby park. And the woods where we hike are usually pretty empty and always kind of dark. So the atmosphere is perfect. This morning, I was listening to the chatter about getting rid of clutter. And I've realized that I had to reach out with a story about the unexpected

consequences from when I once did that. So, so far it sounds like the moral is don't clean. I'm already writing it down as advice. Yeah, thanks. When my husband and I first moved in together in 93, one of my first priorities was getting rid of a bunch of his junk to make space for my junk. I did that with Alison all the time. It's really important for a healthy relationship. It's getting really bad because now after so many years, Alison kind of has nothing and I have a lot and I think she notices that most of her stuff's gone.

No, I'm sure she doesn't notice yet. I was cleaning out a closet when I found a cardboard box full of mostly crap, including an eight by 10 glossy black and white photo of a former Miss West Virginia that was signed for him. You know what? Good for him. Hot stuff, yeah, love that. My first reaction was to roll my eyes.

My second reaction was to wonder why the hell my husband has that photo. He is definitely not the type to be into pageants or women who were into pageants. I am far- I love that immediate eye roll, okay. I would have, I don't know if I would have even done that. I would have just been like, I don't even know.

Just like, I actually would rather not be part of this. Before I threw it away, I asked him about it and he laughed and said, Oh, that's my friend Polly's sister. When we were in high school, a bunch of us guys would drink and then go to Polly's house just to irritate her mom. And she was very proper and raised her daughters to be pageant queens. But Polly wasn't like that. Her sister was there. Her sister was there one day and insisted on giving us all guys autographed photos of her.

I just threw it in the box and then I moved it into a dorm and then it just came with me from apartment to apartment. After my husband confirmed the photo had no sentimental value, I threw it away without any thought until nearly four years later when the beauty queen in the photo was in the national news because her daughter john bonnet had been murdered shut the fuck up shut the fuck up what that's crazy that is so this person who listens to our show, Trina, their husband knew Jon Bonet's mom. Oh!

I couldn't believe I'd thrown away an autographed photo of Patsy Ramsey... That's crazy. ...signed specifically to my husband. That's... See, this is why you shouldn't... This is why... You never throw anything away.

You have to be a whore to a woman. This is why I don't throw my own stuff away. But this is also why if your partner's got a weird thing, maybe keep it anyway. Because it's the weird stuff. It's like how and then it's like, how much room does a photo take up? You know, it's like, well, why don't we just put it in a weird folder? Give her a scam. Give her a yeah, like weird stuff that might mean something someday.

I mean, of course, it's it's hindsight is 20 20. You would not have known that her daughter would get murdered in the most sensationalized case in history. But damn, yeah, that is quite a fine. I'm the dumpster diver who maybe found that. I mean, imagine, right? You're just like, just kind of sitting there in a trash can. Oh my God. Well, when my mother-in-law died in 2021, my husband brought home another cardboard box full of random stuff. This time it was all his mother's items, and it was mostly full of photos

of my husband and his brother and his sister growing up. However, there was a random Olin Mills type portrait of a family I didn't recognize. I showed it to my husband. He said, oh, that's my friend Polly's family. And then I recognized her again. And that was Patsy Ramsey as a teenager Jesus. That's I mean that's really wild I haven't thrown that photo away, and I have attached a copy for your amusement Best wishes and your efforts to remove clutter from your life

But keep in mind sometimes the clutter might be more interesting than you can imagine Trina. Oh Wow gosh Well done Trina. What a story. Wow. Well done, Trina. What a story. The ups and downs were a 10 out of 10. I can't believe you even remembered that it was Patsy Ramsey in the photo. Like I think the timing must have been so right.

I'm mad at men again. Because- No, that doesn't sound right. Leave it to a random dude to not even, you know how like, let's put it this way, you know how a guy would go out with his friends and then he comes back and then gives you zero quality update.

And he goes, he's blazing, and you go, oh, when was the baby born yesterday? And he goes, oh, I didn't ask. And it's like, yeah, it's like, oh yeah, they've been together for 25 years. What's the baby's name? I don't know. They broke up after two decades. Oh Oh my god. Why I don't know leave it to him to just keep calling This random a girl that you might need to be threatened by oh, that's my friend Polly you never wanted to say hey by the way

This is fucking John, but a Ramsey's mom. Yeah, that's really wild but I wonder if you're thinking that happens to people who are super chill like type B friends or it's like oh That old thing. Yeah, that's just my friend Polly's family I'd be like first of all she clearly goes by Patsy now, so let's get that straight No, Polly is the friend Polly's the bro. Oh, right, right, right, right, right So he's just saying he used to go to Polly's house and be like Anyway, I'm not at your husband for you. Anyway, me too. Thanks, Trena.

Thanks, Trena, and thanks for listening to us, even if we make you roll your eyes. It really is a nice thing because I imagine we make a lot of people roll their eyes and not everyone sticks around, so I do appreciate that. Anyway, I think that's all we've got today. We do have two extra stories that will probably make it into like the next one or one of the upcoming ones. But either way, thank you everybody

for sticking with us. And I am I'm already looking forward to the birthday episode. I know June, it's next month. Can you believe that? That's weird. I can't believe it because every day is my birthday. So, okay. You're like, it's never left actually. Be excited for everybody else to care. I'm super happy for everyone else to care as well. And I can't wait to talk about it soon. So thank you everybody.

Sorry if my microphone was weird. It does, it sounds really staticky to me, but I don't know if that's my headphones or not. But if it is, I apologize to you and to Jack. And thanks for being you. Send your stories in, you can go to andthatswhywedrink.com and we have a submission form

where you can send your stories. And maybe we'll read it in a future episode. And that's why we drink.