And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan - And The Demo Is...Episode 2, Part 1

Episode Date: April 29, 2021

And The Demo Is…“Shatter” by Malena Cadiz, “Staying” by Kyle Reynolds and “Where Do We Go” by Naashi!Ross and Joe’s new live web series, “And The Demo Is…”, launched on the ATWI Official YouTube Channel December 17th, 2020. In the series, dedicated to highlighting and mentoring new songwriters, Joe and Ross provided a real-time critique and offered tips on the featured demos. In Part 1 of Episode 2 which aired on Friday, March 26, the guys give feedback on the song “Shatter” by Malena Cadiz ( IG: @malena.cadiz / TikTok: @malena.cadiz) who collaborated on the song with songwriter, Marshall Gallagher (IG: @swinghero). They also critique “Staying” by Kyle Reynolds (Twitter: @KyReynoldsMusic / IG: @kylereynoldsmusic / TikTok: @kylereynoldsmusic), which was co-written by Ellee Duke (IG: @elleeduke). The last demo they went over on Part 1, Episode 2 of ATWI was “Where Do We Go” by Naashi (IG: @naashiwroteit / Twitter: @_naashi_ / TikTok: @naashi) who wrote the song with Kyle Junior (IG: @kylejunior). Big thanks to YouTube for their support!To submit your demo for Ross and Joe to critique visit: https://linktr.ee/andthewriteris Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey guys, welcome to Ann the writer is. I'm your host, Ross Golan. I've written with hundreds of artists and writers over the years, and my favorite part of each session is the first hour when we catch up about life, the industry, politics, composition, whatever. So this is a journey of learning why people write songs, how people write songs, and most importantly, who the people are who write the songs.

I'm producing this with the Great Joe London, big deal music publishing, and mega house music management. If you want to listen to the songs we discuss in this podcast, follow us on our socials, find out about special live events, or buy that merch, aka that hat I always wear, go to our website www. And the writer is.com. It's so cool how different chords changes the meaning of melody.

I'm like, every few episodes. Every few episodes, we should just record different versions of the song to 90s pop version. Well, it's so weird. Like, the best, you know, one of those things that's good advice for everyone is listening. Like, there's a reason why in a legal sense, although apparently juries feel this isn't the case.

But a song is a melody and lyrics, and that's it. Because you can change all the chords underneath and it changes the whole vibe. And that's where, you know, I see why producers are a big part of it. But in a legal sense, it's really just

melody and lyric because you can change your chords in the meaning of the melody changes. All the thing changes. All right. Anyway, let's get started because, you know, Yeah, should we just get into it? Let's do it.

That's what we're here for. Okay, so I think we're going to start off with a song called Shatter that was sent in by an artist's name. I'm going to butcher this name. I'm so sorry. Melena. Cadiz? Cadez. I'm sorry.

But let's just jump back. Melena. Melina with Shatter. Okay, give me one second. That's it. You got that new hair cut, you look like princess die, I'll meet you at the mall, the Chinese restaurant's side. You said you're making changes and you wave your hands of watercolour away. We disappear like sand.

I want to know the heart of it. I want to feel the truth, even if it doesn't matter. Look into its fiery eyes Step right through to the other side And see if I don't shatter When I was just a stranger And I fell real soft into the open arms Of every town I crossed

And there were oranges golden On every branch, all of those other lives Caught in the same slow dance I want to know the heart of it of it I want to feel the truth even if it doesn't matter want to look into its fiery eyes step right through to the other side and see if I don't shatter still every road leads back across my open park every sky burns out of all The same sense. Truth. And if it does,

I'm going to look into it's fire. Step right through to the other side. And see if I don't shatter. Want to feel the truth. Even if it doesn't matter. Cool. I'm just going to run out here. Yeah, I mean, super sick.

The vibe is so cool. Like, gives me a little bit of that, like, kind of like that girl mall rat. vibes in the best way. Yeah. I love how like broken down and just like matter of fact it feels like bedroom bedroom kind of vibe. This is that same thing of what is, you know, what is good music versus what is a good song. This is a cool vibe.

You know, I mean, in the spirit of like, you know, A&R guy listening to a song to be like, what is a hit? and can someone else cut this or, you know, if this were my artist, what kind of notes I would give to try to, you know, popify it a bit. I feel like,

and the verse tempo is either, if that's the verse, then I expected when the chorus came in, the, uh, then-na-na-na-na-na-na. then it might even go back to the

yeah because you only get that the first time and then let it go into like a chorus that we don't have yet or I would take this chorus and be like that's a great verse because of the patience of it if a song started with ah

and then na na na na na na na na na na na and da and then you go into the I just say whatever this verse is and then with the verses make that the pre-chorus and it's a little more wordy because it's faster and then you can go either back but something about the chorus feels like it's either leading to another section yeah I was going to say it feels like it's just missing a bit of if like a bit of a hook like a melodic hook somewhere that's where the ah is the hook and then I think by resolving at the end of the melody it just feels like the tonic if we're in you know if we're in g then the tonic is a

and that's all that she's like keeps getting pulled back to this note is so as is like is like a magnet for for this songwriter in this case and i feel like it's it's pulling her from um it's keeping her from from hooking people in because it lets people off the hook too early but I like the rhythm of the verse and I like the intro of the chorus and I feel like those are elements that you could then go back and rebuild the song around totally and the night the cool thing about the cadence of the verse too is it lends itself to those lyrics a lot like it puts you in yeah in that kind of place so well which is really cool yeah into the verse like a lot. I think the verse is something

that you could build. It's worthy of building that around. I think if you keep that verse, you cut the you make the chorus into a pre-chorus. You use the as the basis of the pre-chorus. You know, and then

lean into something for a chorus that we just don't have yet. Yeah. Amazing But great job. Lots of cool melodies. Yeah. Yeah, and really cool vibe. Again, like, if the goal is to release an album of vibe tracks, like, good to go. Oh, yeah.

This is being, like, nitpicky as far as... How do you get this to, like, yeah, a pop artist or... If you're aiming for top 40, yeah, it's a different conversation. Yeah. Cool. Well, awesome song. Thank you for sharing. Let's move on to the next song, which is...

Let's see here. Oh, we're going to do a song called Stang. okay this song is by artist Kyle Reynolds and Ellie Duke or L Duke sorry

nice Elle or Ellie Ellie we'll throw their socials on here so you guys can go give them some love here we go beautiful voice Waying out the pros and comes of us

beautiful voice laying on the bathroom floor and I still can't get up Are we supposed to minimize love to bullet point pay because It's always easier Set than done I keep trying to start a fight Hoping it a light of fire

I'm telling everyone we'll find But I'm not a good life Woke up one morning and found myself saying The only thing crazy than leaving is stay Because one more day turns to week And if you blink, it turns to you The only thing crazier than leaving is staying In my blood, I'm loyal to a false

But how am I supposed to run When I can barely crawl Three seconds of bravery Is all I need to jump But it's always easier Said than done I keep trying to start a fight Hoping it a lot of fire

I'm telling everyone we're fine But I'm not a good... A lot of good morning and found myself sick Anything crazy than leaving is On my day, it turns to a week And if you blink, it turns to you. The only thing crazy than leaving is... Yeah, it's cool.

A lot of good parts to that. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how long. the song goes. No, that was it. The second chorus, so I can get too more. That was it.

I'm really cool. I felt interesting. There's like, yeah, the one part that's got to me was the, just that like, there's a lot of weight on that last lyric, the staying with you. Yeah, but what she said in the last one should be the tag to each. Exactly. So cut me loose. I feel the same way. Every time it should have been so cut me loose.

or it can be a or you can have a melody that doesn't even have a lyric at all or a new lyric but it puts a lot of like a lot of weight on that line and then to and then the only new lyric you get is you

something about that feels like unsatisfying to me but if yeah if you take that other line it feels like you get a new thing and it feels exciting yeah um I really like that there's some parts to it that are really similar to the uh the song that just came out yesterday

day with the new Benny Blanco one, which is not a bad thing. I'm just saying it's like it's clearly in the zeitgeist with that and the Gracie Abrams song. It's really good. I don't have a ton of notes on it. It's, you know, I agree. I think the tag is something that could be tightened up. I also think the rhyme scheme in the middle of the chorus on the BB if it's like an AB,

or it's like kind of like an AAB form-ish. for the chorus. And I feel like that rhyme scheme in the middle, I don't know the lyrics in front of me, but I feel like that could rhyme and not just be close, just to be tight about it. I also think that in the pre-chorus,

instead of like start a fight, you know, to light a fire, I thought maybe it could be like using the word spark. It's just like easy to start a spark and start a fire, whatever it is or spark a fight and start a fire something like that there's some word in that

colorful spark this cool colorful words to really yeah and I thought but really cool song I thought just production wise like even I'm sure that's you know more of it says demo so you're probably going to continue working on it but even just when you have like such a minimal

song like that utilizing some of the like you know cliche production tricks can go a long way like just a big reverse reverb into the big you know vocal you know yeah dropout chorus some of that stuff to just build that anticipation a little more or like finding a really big tension note that just leads you in gives you that anticipation so it feels like you're falling into a into that vocal chorus but super dope that's really good advice

yeah um okay sick awesome job guys cool song um let's see what's next on the list who's up Okay, we have Where Do We Go by Natasha Patel and Kyle Jr. Let's pull this one up. Okay. Here we go. You're doing a lot of things. Keep it all in check you want to go. You went through a lot of shit.

But you're fighting back and you're trying to grow. avoid that put you on the right track nowhere to want to know it's just getting hard to quit you know you've been through a lot of shit that's why you are the way you want know yeah the city that I'm from I'm a sip until I feel it I'm a smoky till it's done

I don't really give a fucking my excuses that I'm young I'm on one I got some trust issues Conclusions and all that I'm jumping to You never shown how to love in you You're a destructive combination That's me and you You never could save me

Because you need saving too I got some just issues I'm jumping I just ride out Yeah Some really sick parts I feel like there's some like arrangement Issues

Like there was one part that happened once that was like my favorite part and I don't even sure which section it was. Was it like the bridge or something? I think that that's I think yeah it was I think if it's the same part I was thinking. I think that's the it's the thing with patience. Again, this is like a different thing. If you want to have a stream of conscious record that's cool like half a Cizza's album was that. And it's like it's so awesome.

Like she's the greatest at it. So it's if you know, I'm not going to say that there aren't successful artists who do this well. But again, in the sake of like crossover and, you know, maybe more Ariana and where her is heading and some of these, you know, and when Ciz's had a hit, a lot of it has had a little more structure. And that means that you have to be really patient and let each section have its moment. Like, this is the best thing that you can learn from studying jazz.

It's like a Miles Davis thing. but the value of a rest is the same as the value of a note. So you have a quarter rest is equal to a quarter note. In music, they have the same value. And we're so used to being like, I'm going to sing this and that's what's going to win you over. But so much happens in nothing. You know, if you're, I can't even imitate this song

because she's such a good singer. But there's never really a break from the vocalist. The vocals the whole time. The vocals the whole time. But it's amazing how valuable just like, you know, if you ever did something, no, and it's all this in it because I can get something. Oh, that is funny, but I can in this way.

Nothing. Nothing. I just don't wait. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. All in it on and on and no. All of a.

I'm focused on that melody because I've given the listener a chance to digest the brilliance that are some of these melodies. And often songwriters step on their own intelligence as a melodicist because they're so, they want to show people the next melody that should fit. But maybe the next melody is the rest. And so as I get older and further in the business, I'm, I'm finding ways to add space. It's why when you're into, if you're into DeAngelo Voodoo

or you're into Rage Against a Machine, you know, some of these bands where the space is everything. It's everything. It's not about melody, melody, melody. It's not about music, music, music. It's like, listen to Untitled by

D'Angelo and tell me that space isn't the main hook of that song. You know? Anyway, good song. Yeah, that's great advice for that song. And sometimes you can get, you can achieve that

you know, where you're trying to find space by just taking different parts of the song and rearranging them. You know, like maybe that bridge is actually like the pre-chorus. And just by doing, that it gives you more space and allows the other parts to breathe. Sometimes you can achieve that just by shuffling stuff around.

Thanks for listening to this episode of And The Writer Is. If you want to hear music from this songwriter I just interviewed, be sure to check out our Spotify playlist or visit our website at and thewriteris.com. If you like what we're doing, please subscribe to us. You can also like us on Facebook and Twitter. And The Writer Is is is produced by Joe London and published by Big Deal Music. A special thanks to David Silberstein from Mega House Music and Michael White. Until next time, this is Ross Golan.