And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan - Ep. 1: Benny Blanco

Episode Date: January 21, 2017

He’s already a recipient of the Hal David award given by the Songwriter Hall of Fame and he’s only 28 years old. He’s the youngest of the real super-producer class and undoubtedly a better person than musician. He has too many #1 songs to count. And The Writer Is Benny Blanco Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey guys, this is the very first episode of And The Writer is. I'm Ross Golan and I'm going to be your host. I've written with hundreds of writers and artists over the years and my favorite part of each session is the first hour when we catch up about life and the industry, politics, composition, whatever. If you ask me, songwriters are some of the most worldly and intelligent people I've ever come across. So this is a journey of learning why people write songs, how people write songs.

And most importantly, who's the world. the people are who write the songs. I'm co-producing this with my friend Joe London, who's nominated for Grammy this year. He records every interview and makes sure we sound like angels. So if you like what you hear, please rate us on iTunes,

or whatever your preferred podcast listening site is. We recorded our first interview a few months ago with Benny Blanco. He's one of my good friends. In fact, we wrote Samo Love Together and he co-publishes Compass, which also went number one for me and country.

He's recently been nominated for producer of the year because he worked on about 20 projects that I think we all wish we worked on. Even this past week, he released a song with Ed Shearren, but of course that's not the only thing that happened to him last week. In fact, he had the number one song at both Hot AC and Top 40 Radio with Don't Want to Know for Maroon 5. Right before that, he had Coldwater, which was also number one at top 4. because that's just what he does.

He makes hit records. So let me set the stage for you for how this interview happened. The first time I met Benny was going to his place in New York, and I always joke with him that he lives in L.A. now, but he says that he just visits here, even if he's here, for more than half the year. So he bought a house recently in Hollywood, and we went to his new place. There are all kinds of people walking in and out of his place. He's got artists.

He's got writers. He's got producers. he's got just friends all over the place. And they're all very funny and they're all loud and fun. And you'll hear in the background of this, I'm sure a few people talking. But that's the vibe with Benny. It's all about the community.

So when he said, why don't you come over to my place? We felt like that was a smarter move than having him come to his studio because if you want to be around Benny, you have to be in his domain. That makes Benny great. Anyway, we go to his house

and he's got some of the coolest furniture, coolest rugs, coolest artwork. And when I mean cool, I mean classy. I mean, they say that there's that expression of money can't buy class. But there's so much class in that guy. One of the stories that I like to tell, and I don't know if I said it in this interview or not, but when I used to go to his place in New York, I noticed he had no platinum records on the wall except for one.

He had one that was given to him by a children's hospital. And that always made me feel like that explained Benny most. I mean, here's a guy who's had millions of records, countless hits, and all he has is a record from a children's hospital. So without further ado, here's the very first episode of And The Writer Is. Welcome to Anne The Writer is. I'm your host, Roscoe. Today's writer-producer is one of my favorite humans. He's been BMI Songwriter the Year a few times, sold over 100 million songs. runs a record label, has been recognized by the songwriter Hall of Fame, and he just turned 28.

Straight from Virginia by way of New York, this writer has broken artists like Katie Perry and Kesha and reinvigorated bands like Maroon 5. I have mad love for this adorable little man, and the writer is everyone's favorite matzo ball, Benny Blanco. Hola. Hola. What's up, guys? So I usually start by saying we're asking or like looking up how I met somebody.

Okay. And it turns out I sent you a song years before we actually met. Like there must have been some time where you gave me your email. And I actually think I think it was at some Grammy event. And you gave me like friends or family kind of thing. And you had really long hair. Okay. And you gave me your email and I sent you a pretty...

Like now when I listen to it, I listened to it because I was like, maybe this is good. And I can show you and be like... Like show you in front of humans. And then I was like, no, this isn't very good. People must send you records constantly, right? I'd say at least 10 to 15 records a day, maybe more. Do you listen to them? I try to listen to every song that someone sends me.

Really? I do. I listen. It might not be like, I'm pretty bad with email, so it might be like two weeks later, but I listen to everything everyone does. Or I'm like, or like if they don't send me a song, I'm like, oh, well, send me a song. Or if I meet someone out and they're like, how can I get my music to you? I listen to every single thing.

Really? Yeah, because you never know, man. What if it's like, what if this person is the next fucking me or you, you know? I guess I worry that I'm going to end up being that that's like the story. of how you get sued. And so, like, I tend to just be like, no, I don't even click on anything. I'm just like, yo, I can't click on it.

It depends where it comes from. I mean, if you sent me something, I'd listen to it. Why? And if it's like, yeah, well, not because it's good, but because like, yeah, you want to laugh a little. Yeah, exactly. I mean, no, but it's one of those things where if a friend of a friend sends it, that's one thing.

But if it's like, if it's a random person who gets my email and sends it, I can't do it. I listen to every single one. Wow. Have you ever found anybody where you're like, oh, my God. No, horrible. No. Has anyone ever sent you something where you're like, oh, this is it.

This is the song. This guy I need to, I need to work with this person. A few times it's happened like that. But it didn't material. It wasn't, no, no, it didn't turn into anything. But Amar was kind of like that. Yeah, but didn't you guys grow up? Yeah, yeah.

We knew each other. But we didn't hang out that much. David was the one who I hung out with. David Silverstein being Omar Malik's man. Yeah, right. So David and I met a Jewish sleepaway camp where we were like 10.

Right. And we were like breakdance. And then like we went to like bar mitzvah together. And then David and I lost communication from probably 14 to 19 or something. Right. And I go down to visit. my friends actually sorry okay so first i i met i met him again because my best friend

lev this guy left they were going to school together and he was like hey i have this roommate man he's really cool he should meet him when you come down and i'm like cool i'm like he's like he does music and stuff we come down i see david i'm like holy shit it's like the random like the synchronity between that. Like, he's just like... Two friends from childhood, then he'd meeting like that. And then I started listening

to Amar's stuff again and I would give him advice and shit. And then... Yeah, but at that point, okay, so... But they were sending me songs all the time and I wasn't like with them. But how does this happen? You're like 16 years old or whatever

when you start... You're in Virginia and then you end up in New York or you end up producing Spank Rock How does this happen? How do you go from being a Jewish kid from the suburbs who's making music at home to like, oh yeah, all of a sudden, I mean, are you sending out your songs first before? I mean, how do people hear you? All right, let's do the short thing.

Oh, this is also why. Because I wonder, like, they're sending you records like you know better at this point, which is crazy because you kind of did. This is the main reason why I listened to all those records because that's how I was discovered. Right. I was discovered completely randomly. So what happened was, you know, we all did the same exact thing

when we were younger. We were in bands, fucking thezbians. Like we were in, like, weird fucking losers. No, but I was doing all the normal things that kids do, you know, if you're, like, artistic. And I was making music, making songs. Like I used to like I didn't have like my parents didn't buy me like equipment. So like we had like two boom boxes and I would like record everything into one then record it all into that one then record it back.

So I like made like my own A track. Sure. And everything was horribly out of time and my beats sucked and my songs were awful. So then I was like, you know what? I'm going to be like Eminem. Like I was like I'm going to be Eminem. It was like 99. I was already rapping at that point.

Long story short. I get... My brother hooks me up with this guy named Sam who starts recording all my early demos, taught me how to make music, taught me how to produce, taught me pro tools. Like, he was like, he was like the guy who like really got my foot.

So did you buy, or is... I didn't have anything. Right. I was just using, I would go, I would travel to him. He was in Jersey and I was in Virginia. And then... Would you drive or take a train or what?

Yeah, yeah, however I could. There was like a china bus that you could take. And so I would do whatever I could. I was like 13 at this point. And then like my parents stopped going with me. Like I would just get to go on my own at this point. 13? Yeah, 13, 14.

And then. Crazy. And you didn't play any instruments. You're just like mom and dad, I'm going to be a rapper. I was a rapper and I made all the beats. And at this point, at this point I was really into like playing. I used to actually be. okay at guitar i just fucking lost it like yeah i i now i'm like now i'm not so great at anything but um

it seems like almost everybody in the industry is either educated and they went through the process of going through you know high school college touring did the whole thing that way play you know virtuastic instruments or they're these like or they're you know prodigies where they're they're 13 years old and they're like yeah i'm gonna rap or you know like you know like what Julia does or, you know, these people who can somehow write hit songs when they're kind of born. I mean, how do you go from 13 years old? You're now, you're going and rapping.

Were the songs good? Did you know they were good? Or did you feel like you had to learn? I was, was Sam teaching you everything? I started beatboxing first, like, before anything, because I thought that's how you had to make your beats. I thought, like, everyone, I was like, why can't, don't, I was like, why doesn't my mouth sound like the things on the radio?

I didn't understand it. And I thought like whenever there was like scratching records that it would like there's a song of the world is yours by Nas and like there's like scratch solos in it. And I'm like, damn, they're so good at doing it with their mouth. I thought they did it. I didn't even put two and two together that like you like played an instrument on a on a song. I thought you did it all with your mouth. So then so I was working. I was I was just trying to figure out how to get it all done.

And I got the attention of this guy named Jonathan Schechter who started Source Magazine and he was the first person to put out Eminem. He was instrumental in 50 cents career. And he had his own label on Columbia. And he also had this thing called hip hop honeies. And what that was was like a soft core porn type of thing. What?

It was like, so listen. Is this a website? Or is it a magazine or the movie? It's a DVD series. It was like the biggest selling softcore DVD of all time. And what it was was, it was like all the video girls from like all the videos dancing like with their tops off to like rap beats. Yeah. And I was like, I was like, yo man.

And he was like he was trying to sign me to Columbia. And I was like, eh. And then like. But you're 15 or 16. I'm 14. 13 or 14. So you're still like kind of turned down and kind of not sure what to do. Yeah.

Exactly. Exactly. Like I remember like he took me to meet like the first time I like went to go hang out with him. It was him and Tara Patrick. I don't know if you remember who that is. But she was like a really famous like porn star back in the day. And I was like and it was like the first time and I'm like hi. Like and I'm like I'm like actually I'm like like hi.

I'm like hi. So I kind of sound exactly like how I do now. Sure, right, right. So I, you know, long story short, he started helping develop me. And then somewhere along the line, I'd like, well, like, jive, a bunch of labels were into it. Like, I remember they flew down to see me perform at my homecoming when I was like 14 or something. Oh, that's cool. They all flew in from New York to see me.

At this point, were you cool in high school? Because, like, you know, you're saying they, you started by kind of saying how we were all dorks, which I know I was. But, like, to go from that to then being a rapper that, you know, has a possible record deal. I can imagine that there's, like, a line around the block in high school to be like, oh, I want to be friends with that guy. I mean, it was like this. I was cool because of my brother. My brother was, like, the coolest kid at school. So everyone was like, oh, you're Jeremy's little brother.

And he was, like, four or five years older. So he was, like, always, like, a school above me. So I was like, oh, you're generous. So I was like automatically cool. Like, like because of him. Like because of me, probably no chance. And then like, I mean, I was, I mean, I'm pretty sure you can know who I was. I was friends with all the crowds, you know, I was like friends with all the hip hop kid.

You know, I went to a very diverse school. So I was like friends with all the hip hop kids. I was friends with all the white kids. I was friends with all the Spanish kid. Like I was in every group. And I was like the class clown, you know, I was like the teacher would be like, Ben, like shut up. Like, you know, I was like the kid, like I was getting kicked out of class for like talking too much and like making beats on the table.

And then then all of a sudden like porn star people are coming to your homecoming to see you before? No, no, they didn't come to my own coming. Oh, okay. Old dudes came. I was like I've seen this movie before. Old dudes came to my home. Right, right. With probably saggy testicles.

Yeah, right. So. Yeah. So I'm in. Yeah. So, no. But, no, what happens? happened was they all came and stuff and then I wound up signing like this like production deal with

I don't know if you know who gamble and huff is yeah of course they like wrote like all those old songs back in the day and they they them and their kids like kind of like helped mentor me along the way and then how did they hear you my brother met one of them at it my brother has like got me everything at the beginning he met one of them at like a basketball why didn't he manage you he wasn't thinking about that he didn't know what that was I mean he was essentially your manager Yeah, like he didn't know what that was. And I had, like... You know managers who do a whole lot less than that.

I had like a weird manager thing. Like, I don't know, like some like guy... At the time you did. Yeah, when I was like 13, 14. I forget who it was. I think his name was like Jay or something. Some guy I met online was like my manager. Right.

And then... This is like Myspace era probably. This is before Myspace. So your... Myspace plays a big role in this. All right. So, okay. So, you know, let's get forward.

So I tell my friend, I'm probably like 14, 15 now. And I'm like, I'm like, man, I'm like, let me make one of those beats for the hip hop honey's things. I want to make, I want to make some money for it. Like, I want to like, I want my name out there. And I want, because I didn't have any money and I wanted to get my own setup. I didn't have any money to get my own set up. I had like whack keyboards. And I had like the little casios that like I wound up using on every record later in my life.

Like all the cashier stuff. Like, but I didn't know. what any of, I didn't know that was going to come into play. Like, because like back in the day, like little weird Cascio sounds weren't really cool. Right. Like, and I was. That was much later that those became cool again. Exactly.

Right. Exactly. So I, uh, I was just trying to get in and I made, I made a beat and he was like, whoa, this isn't bad. He was like, you know what? He's like, I'm going to give you 200 bucks for this. And I was like, whoa. I was like, my life is made. I'm like, dude.

I can like buy pot and as much pizza as I want. Like that was like, 200 bucks for a 14 year old is. I was like, I was like, holy shit. That's serious money at that age. So then I started making beats locally for like everyone.

Like, because my name got out that I did like that and I started making beats for everyone locally. So I was getting like, you know, like like 200 bucks here, 300 bucks there. So I started like making some, making some money. So like I got a little bit better system. And, but like a lot of stupid shit happened. Like I got like my mom. house got robbed twice because I was just I just wasn't in with like the right kids I was like it was like

I was just selling beats to anyone it was like very brown paper bag money type of thing then fast forward I'm like I'm like 16 or 17 yeah and my space is a thing yeah and I'm writing everyone on my space like like I'm and somehow I got a lot of friends on my space right like I'm and somehow I got a lot of friends on my space. Like, somehow I got, like, way more. Like, the normal person had, like, I don't know, like, how many friends did you have? I don't remember, but I know.

Like, maybe a thousand or something. Like, and, like, that was, like, a big deal. You were like, man, I got, like a thousand. I had, like, I had, like, you were just clicking on everybody who's trying to email everybody. Not email. What was it called? It wasn't friending.

Was it friending on people on my space? Message. It was just, like, a message, right? I can't remember. I remember when labels were always said to bands, I'm sure they said it to everybody. It was just like, you know what you should do is you should make more friends on MySpace. Friend people on MySpace.

You're like, what? Spend days trying to friend people so you can develop your profile. Is that what they told you? Yeah, that's what they tell people now. They're like, go put up covers on YouTube. Don't do that. Don't do that. So I started like, and I would like hit people and I would get like meeting.

at labels and I would like and I would meet like some guy who like I didn't know at this who was like a guy getting like the coffee yeah but it was so cool because you're meeting like a guy from Columbia records yeah yeah and I was like oh my god this is insane like like a guy who had no power to do anything right of course no one probably even knew his name like and I was just like oh my god and you're all nervous and yeah I was so nervous like probably just as nervous as he was like and and I started doing stuff like that and I would reach out to tons of producers like guys that I'm friends with now, like, like, Emil Haney, like, tons of, and I was reaching out to everyone in the music business. Like, I was reaching out to, to anyone you knew, anyone you knew. And then

I started getting meetings with people, and I was meeting with, like, I was meeting, like, one of my first meet, I met with Fenster when I was, like, 17, 16. Crazy. And I started doing, and, like, a lot of people would be like, oh, yeah, meet up with me. And then they'd be like, oh, like, I have to cancel. And I was like, fuck. Like, I didn't want to make them. I wanted to act. I was like, oh yeah I have a bunch of meetings yeah it's all good don't worry about I literally drove up just for that and I was like

and I used to like sleep in the McDonald's and stuff because you could like you could um where which McDonald's there was a bunch of them there was anyone that was open like the one on the one in Times Square like stays open like forever

and it's and it's like multiple levels so like you can like switch around and stuff so I would just like wait until the next morning like I would have my meeting at like 8 a. and how old are you at this point probably 17 16 I'm going with my friends. Would you go with your friends

and you basically miss school or would you be trying to meet people on weekends? I would, what I would do is... Did you actually ditch? I did ditch a lot. Did you graduate?

I did. I did. I did. I graduated high school. But I would ditch a lot and I would or I would like miss my last class and I would meet someone in New York for like their last meeting of the day.

Like seven. But sometimes they'd be like, oh, can we just reschedule like Saturday morning? and then I'd be fucked. I'd be like, fuck, where am I going to sleep? This is, like, before I knew people like that in New York. And if I did, like, I didn't want to like, like, because they were like people I was

like trying to work with. So I don't want to be like, hey, can I sleep on your couch with three of my friends who are waiting in the car? Yeah, exactly. And we smell. Like. Do you think all that development of going up there and sleeping there random nights and being with friends up there, that that's part of your love of New York is like that's

that's where you had your struggle as a kid? Yeah. Yeah. And both my parents are from there. And I always, that was like the place where I was going. Like, because it's not like I was going to. You were going to go there anyway, no matter what. Yeah, it's not like I was going to L.A.

Like, I've been to L.A. and I lived in, we lived in L.A. for, like, a year and a half when I was a kid. But, like, I wasn't, New York was the closest place I could go where music was happening. I already had the D.C. thing. So, like, I already had, I was already working with all the biggest guys in D.C. at the point. But they weren't, like, big. Like, D.C. is not, like, a huge, or at that time wasn't a huge. music scene. Like there was, but no one was making it. Like, Waleigh hadn't made it yet.

Like, Waleigh was like just getting on, like, he was like just starting to like get on like, they had this thing. It was like hot or not. Like, and it was like, you would be like the local artists and you decide if they were, they had a hot song or not. He had this song called like Nike Boots and it was like blowing up like locally. And that was like, this was like 13 years ago, something like that. This is before you got any label or anything.

Crazy. So then I So then at this point I go And I'm emailing everyone And I email this guy named Disco D He was like

I was listening to the 50 Cent album so much Like and I was like both albums Because there are only been two albums out at that point And I was like this was when he was like supreme And I was like holy shit I was like this is so good Because I was in that scene Because like all those guys

I forgot like at this point I knew, I knew like, I knew like, like Theo Saddamar, Paul Rosenberg. Like, I knew these guys because of Jonathan Schechter. Like, he was very in that scene because he worked with all those guys. Do you still keep in touch with Jonathan? Yeah, talk to him all the time.

And Paul, all those guys. They must all think this is crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, like. Because they just knew you from being this little kid who would come up to New York. But everyone, fenced, all these guys. Yeah, right.

I knew all these guys because you got a, I got my first record deal when I was right before I was 18. Yeah. So it's like, so like, so what happened was, so now we're at like, I'm like, I'm like 16, 17, going up and I hit this guy Disco D. And I'm like, yo, I want to intern for you.

And he's like, I don't tell him I live in Virginia. I'm like, he's like, or I did. I was like, I live in Virginia, but I'm moving to New York. I didn't, I had no idea when I was moving to New York. I was still in school. I was in my senior year. So I was like 17, maybe 16, 17, 17, 17, probably. And then.

I he's like come here tomorrow so I'm like all right but really what I want to do is like playing my beats so like I come there and he's like it was a Friday and I was with one of my friends James and he's like it was in Brooklyn he goes I'm leaving to go to Brazil tomorrow I'll be back on Sunday if you can film my studio the whole time I'm gone he was like and get like two or three sessions and make me money he was like you can keep the studio he's like you can keep the studio he's like you can be my intern and I was like what? And I was like I don't even know this many people. Right so you're like a studio

manager and he just let me stay at his house like the first time ever meeting me and and I did it. I called everyone I knew I called kids from Virginia DC like I filled his studio up and like I got like two or three sessions so like I had like and like two of them were on Sunday

and I made him money and he was like all right you got the job now get the fuck out of here And I was like, and so like, I started coming up every week. And, you know, he was a loony dude. He was a very loony dude. And started coming up and I'll work for him every week. And I was like, I'm, I was like, I have to find a way to move to New York. So I like, at this point, like, everyone's applying for colleges.

And I'm like, man, I don't want to do this college thing. So, like, I find some like trade school in New York. And I'm like, I apply to that. And like, I go there. What was it? I think it was called Institute of Audio Research. Oh, so. But you were going to do music somehow.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It wasn't like you went to go out of TT Tech. No, no, no, no. It's called, like, Institute of Audio Research. It's like an engineering school. Like a music end. It's like full sale. Yeah.

But for the East Coast. And I was like, all right, I'm going to go here. So, because I needed like an apartment. And my mom was like, if you go to school, she was like, I'll pay for one year. Right. And I was like, cool. So, like, I go. Pretty amazing.

Yeah. It's hard. Like, you know, parental support. I'm always so impressive. If somebody can make it without parental support, I don't know how they do it. But I know it happens. But that's like, that's pretty incredible.

She was like, I'll pay, I'll pay for, I'll pay for one year. So they recognize that Lisa, you had talent at that point. Yeah. Or they recognize that other people recognize you of talent. Yeah, they didn't, they were like, what's your backup plan?

They were like, what are you going to do? I have Jewish parents. I'm the only person in my entire like bloodline and then go to college. Right. So it's like, so. I think they believed my mom was like just give it a shot if you mess up you can go back to school and she was like she was like just promise me you're going to go to that school which I didn't

but like I did I did at the beginning so so basically I get into the school I'm like I'm so jazz it's my last day I'm graduating I'm about to walk down the thing it's my last day my friend goes yo I need you to make me a music page for one of my artists for MySpace and this was like just when the I didn't know

this is like when you could make your own music page and I didn't really know how to do it like making a music page like using the player and stuff and I was like I was like dude I don't know how to do that he was like well if you don't do that and read this book he gave me this book called like the Tao Deschen

it's like this like like like like mantras and poems and he was like if you don't read you don't read it. this book by tomorrow and make that. He was like, don't even bother coming up. He was like, I won't hire you. And I was like, fuck. Somehow I figured out how to do it.

I moved the next day to New York. I didn't have a place yet because my place didn't start until after the summer. So I'm crashing on his floor and just like the limited people I know. Like starting to make connects in New York and I'm like staying. My brother was living.

Is this 2000? 2004 or something? 2005. 2006, this is. So, and I'm living, and I'm like, my brother lived in New York, kind of, so I'm like, living in Hoboken for a little bit. And I'm just, like, crashing in everyone's couch that will let me sit on a couch. So then I get my place, and it's in Brooklyn.

And I'm working with this guy, and he, at the same time, I used to cold call wreck. records labels and I would like I would pretend like so say like say it's like who's someone on Atlantic like Bruno Mars let's just say that I was doing it right now right I'd be like hey I'd be like this is Bruno Mars lawyer and I would like look who the lawyer was and then like I'd get in I'd get through to like Craig and I'd be like and I'd be like hey Craig this isn't really him I just really need to play you my music and like they would hang up and like that's how I met like a lot of assistants that became something big. And I used to do that.

And one of the guys I would call was this guy named Andrew Luffman. And then I was doing that. And then at the same time, Andrew was partially managing disco D and stuff. And Andrew was just in a, he was Craig Cowman's assistant at that point. So it's like, so he's Craig Calvin's assistant.

then I meet a guy who later becomes my manager that I started off by selling drugs for him to make money because I didn't have any money. In 2006-200-ish? What kind of drugs? Just pot. And I was like selling pot and like that's how I started meeting a lot of people in the music business

because he would deal to like tons of people in the music business. and like it's not like he's dealing like was he your dealer and then you were like oh you should manage me no he was in the same built he lived in the same building as disco d and like he would disco d was one of his clients

right and like a lot of people were his clients and then he goes he goes to me he says he says what are you doing down there he's up there he's like I got a few keyboards and stuff he's like you want to come down and make music like at my

place. Like we started making music and then he's like somehow he didn't know what it was either he's like should I like be your manager and he was like a cool guy around Brooklyn. He was like this drug dealer he threw parties that were great everything and this is like when Williamsburg was like not a thing yet like it was just starting you know this was this is like 11 years ago 10 11 years ago so it's like it's like just starting to become a thing and I start making music I'm making a lot of music and and I'm interning and like this is when people like weren't even signed yet so like like Sonti Gold would come over to Disco D's house

and like make music and like and she was like trying to get a record deal and all these people like tons of people that became crazy big artists like like and and and and tons of people were interning with me that became huge people that are in the music business now like just tons of people that like I know now that are like big songwriters big producers

There's artists. Like, and we're all doing this. And I interned one day, and I was a studio assistant for Spankrock. And it was like four in the morning. I was exhausted. They made me stay. I had to, like, run all around the night before. And, like, I didn't take cabs.

I'm, like, taking subways. What label was he on? He wasn't on one at a point, at this point. He wasn't on a label. and he was like this like really cool thing right now and he was working and and I like got them tuna sandwiches and like I go in and I sit down and like I'm just sitting there and he's like he's like hey man he's like you like this beat

and I was like yeah man it's fucking awesome and he's like what do you think of this line and he like asked me like a few lines and then like later and he just kept asking me more and he was like hey what rhymes with this right so like I helped him out and then like a few times in the studio I had done that like a few different days long story short um Disco D uh passes away

he uh he committed suicide Oh wow So this is like my best friend The guy I'm with every single day Fucking off himself How did you do it? He uh he hung himself Was it in the apartment?

No no it was actually at his parents' house Wow How old was he? 27 Oh 27 club So, so that's what I was like super nervous about this year. Like for me, just because like the whole 27 thing.

Sure. So he, he passes away and I'm like, man, what the fuck am I doing with my life? I'm at this school. I like, I'm like, I'm like, I can't, I can't make it. No one wants to buy my beats. Like every time I go in to play Andrew Beats, I'd be like, he'd be like, look, these are good. He's like, but like, these are like, Timberland beats and these are fake Neptune's beats.

He's like in... So he was Luffman then. Yeah, he was like... He was like, why would we get your beats if we could just get their beats? He said, you have to do something that makes you original. Right. And I was learning all this stuff from Disco D. Like, and I was like, I just completely adapted his style.

Like, and I was like, I got to do something cool. And this is right when Narls Barkley came out. Sure. And I was like, man, I got to do like a mixtape. And then like this other guy put out this mixtape that was like, Biggie mixed with Frank Sinatra. Do you remember that? No.

I remember like the, you know, gray album. Yeah, and that was like cool. This was like right when all that was coming out. And I was like, I have to do one of those. I was like, I got to find an artist to do it. So I called up Spank Rock every day. And I was like, yo man, we got to do this. And he knew me through disco D.

And he was like, I was like, come on, man. I was like, and we met up one night. And we like all, me, him and my manager at the time, we all freestyled over like this disco D beat. that we all freestyled over this 50 cent disco d beat um called ski maskway and we like really bonded and then like i would see him in the streets of brooklyn all the time and then i was like one day i convinced him and i was like i was like just come over and make one song with me man at my manager's studio and i was like i was like this at this point i was like i was like i was like

I was still in school too. So I was like staying up so late. Like going, I was like, everything, I wasn't sleeping at all. I was like in a crazy state. Yeah.

And he was like, just, I was like, just come over. And I'm like, yo, I think we should do a thing where we sample all two live crew.

And I was like, and we make like a thing about it. Like, and we make an EP. And we like just put it out for free and like just, we'll do it so quickly. And so he comes over. He makes one song.

the next week we get signed to the same label that signed Narls Barkley. It's downtown. Yeah, sure. I remember that. And I'm like, whoa. I'm 18 years old. In Tribeca or wherever that. Yeah.

I'm 18 years old at this point. And I'm like, holy shit. I'm like, all right. And now $200 for a beat. You're like, I'm upgrading. Now two, yeah, now $200. Now it's $2,000. Yeah, I was like, and I was like, whoa.

I was like, I'm producing something. I'm getting, 2007 or so. This is 2006. And I'm like, whoa, this is crazy. Maybe it's 2007. Maybe 2006, though. I'm like, holy shit. I'm like, this is insane.

So I do that. And I'm just like, at this point, like, we're the coolest thing in lower Manhattan and Brooklyn. We're like, it's like we walk outside. Are you playing live? Yeah, yeah. We walk outside and people are like, and people are like, oh shit. Like that like like it's like I mean my face is plastered every right this point and it's like it's like I'm working with santi I'm working with justice I'm working with most deaf I'm like like it's like everything just happened overnight it just blows up once you over one song or you know project or whatever yeah and no obviously like the project wasn't big it probably sold like 15000 copies or something no but I mean it was like it was very big in in the downtown scene and it was like you know it was this very crazy thing like what was Luffman saying that was

at that point. Luffman was trying to get Warner Chapel to sign my publishing. I didn't know what that meant. And they were like, I just don't know. They were like, I don't see it. He was trying to get people to place my beats, but my beats were fucking weird, man.

They were like, I don't know if you've ever heard like the Spangor stuff, but they're like, we, like, they're like out there. And so at this point coming up is like, it's like me, Diplo, A-track. Like, all of us were in the same thing. Like, we were in the same group of this cool thing. and no one knew what it was really going to be.

It was, we were all cool. Like, no one was, like, no one, you know, no one was big yet. Yeah. Like, it's like, it's like, it's like. DJs who can dabble in hip hop and. Yeah, but like, yeah, it wasn't like a huge thing. Like, like, like, at this point, Diplo could probably sell out like, like, 600 kids or something. Like, and it was like, and that was big, you know.

And then. How do you, I mean, not to go back to the creative side on some level, like, how are you creating these beats? because you're not, this is one of the most, the most shocking things about you is that you hear music really well and you're a really good curator of sounds. Yeah. You know, but how are you creating beats for people when you don't really play an instrument and at this point you, you know, you're now creating a mass.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and people are not, now you jump into like, I'm creating beats regularly and creating songs regularly. Are you like, how do you, how do you do that? where do you start from it's all samples it's not samples it's all i mean you you have more synthesizers than anyone i know you know how are you but yet you don't play piano it was i don't get it what happens when no one's watching it was so basically like if i have to i can completely get the job done right i'm just like i'm not the guy i think being a producer and being a songwriter is a very interesting role.

And I think a lot of times people try to play the hero all the time. And it's like, I don't want to be the hero. I want to be that player that everyone goes, you know, he passed the ball really well. He took the shots when he needed to. He did, he rebound if no one was down low. Like, so what I'm saying is if I'm in the studio and fucking John Legend sitting next me. I'm not going to be like, hey, John, scoot over, let me play the piano real quick. You know what I'm saying? Like, if I have to, I can get everything done. But I think a producer's

role is to know when to use their strengths and to know how to play to other people's strengths. So it's crazy. I don't want to skip too far ahead. But on some level, there's, you know, when you get further in your career and you go sort of the post-Dr. Luke, I know, we didn't get to that though you know there aren't a lot of um i feel like our draft class of of writers and producers have lifted up a lot of walls between people and part of it is because you're the guy who's like yo ryan teter let's go right together hey stargate let's produce this together hey you know you're not sitting there with um you feel like you you're okay not being the only guy

with credit. Yeah, I could care less. I could care less. Where do you learn that from? I mean, before you're at downtown, you get this record deal. You're starting to write beats for all these people. And then the next thing you know on some level, you end up really, like,

kind of, like getting, I guess getting your deal with downtown is getting drafted. Then all of a sudden you start playing in the all-star game when, you know, everything. Yeah. And so that happens and then you somehow feel comfortable enough to go off and collaborate. But I don't know. Let's go back.

Where did you learn to collaborate enough to be like, hey, I'm going to go in with Dr. Luke and I'm going to go in with these other people. We were making music. Like the one thing I will tell you, that manager I had at the time that was like a drug dealer. Yeah. We can give a name. We'll call him Sam. No, we already have Sam.

We'll call him Boris. Boris. He was so good at, you know, he knew all the crazy downtown musicians. So he'd be like, he'd be like, yo, today you should make a beat with this violinist I met. So I would do it. And like, and like people weren't doing stuff like that that I knew. And he'd be like, yo, there's a there's like a guy who plays like trombone. And here's a guy who plays saxophone. Pull them. And here's a guitarist. And I was learning how to do that. And he was like, yo, here's the guitarist from, you know, chick, chick, chick. Or here's the guitarist from, you know, the death set or like and all this weird stuff and I would make music with all these weird downtown guys and it was like

I was just doing man I didn't know anything that's I think that was my my biggest strength was not knowing I didn't know I didn't know what was cool I didn't know what wasn't cool I didn't know like that you were supposed to write a song like this or you were I didn't I knew nothing about structure at this point or anything I didn't like sometimes my songs were a minute long sometimes they were five minutes long um and I just collaborated and I always did I because I made music myself for so many years then I never worked with anyone did that did that ever scare you that you didn't really know what you were doing were you at did you ever have any like uh did you ever have any fear no one time just the time when I when after disco D died and I was like

what the fuck am I doing with my life that's the only time I looked both ways and tried to look back that's the only time I tried to look I look back and looked around me and did it like that. I mean, I can imagine that being pretty frightening when you're sort of mentor. Yeah. For me, it's like, but for me it's like this, man.

It's like, I, music is supposed to be collaborative. Okay, say you're alone, okay, you're at home. You make a beat. You make a song. Sure. What's the first thing you do after you make it if you think it's good? Send it to somebody.

Or call up your friend and play it for them over the phone and then they can't hear it over the phone and they're like, whoa, is that? And then, like, you kind of get down a little bit. There's nothing more vulnerable. It's still, I don't know if you're like that. Yeah, you are. If I play an idea for you that is that I've worked on at home and I'll still get nervous and be like, you know, guys, I wrote it from home.

We can all change it. We can change everything. If you don't like it, it's cool. And you still have to start it with like this disclaimer of this is shit. This song's terrible. So don't hate me for it. And don't judge my career on it. Before I, before I, before I, like, I think I'm like, oh, no, no, no, but this is like totally a demo.

Like, no, don't worry. Like, the vocals are scratching. We hate the song. We're probably going to change everything. But, like, that's what you do. Anytime anyone play someone a song, like, I've never heard someone, like, in a session just be like, this shit is fucking incredible. Yeah.

Like, no. I'm like, well, you know, it's just like a demo. And like, we didn't have the right since sound in, but we're putting it in really soon. And they're like, don't worry about it. And then they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's not right. Yeah.

Yeah. Even at the end. Even when they're like, it's a smash. Well, not yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you don't want them to like pull the veil up and realize that you're still that kid. He's a Thesbian in high school. Yeah, exactly.

No, but it's still, yeah, it's still. Anyway, so then you go in, you meet with, you meet eventually with Luke because Boris is sending you to collaborate with random people. And he's in New York playing on SNL and shit. I met with Luke. I was getting a lot. of attention in New York. Right. 2007.

There was a shitload of people randomly just trying to sign me and like publish me. Like one of the first guys to really step out was I don't know if you know Rich Christina. Yeah. He was like one of the first guys to really step out. And he was actually the one who told me to sign with Luke. He was like, don't sign with me, man. He was like, that guy can teach you a lot more than I. Yeah.

Because, like, everyone knew I had, like, this raw talent, but I didn't know what to do. I didn't listen to pop music. I didn't know. And at this point, Luke had already become Luke, the producer and not Luke on SNL and stuff. Luke was Luke was Luke was Luke was, um, he had, it was like all like pop rock. Right. So he had like, since you've been gone. It's since you been gone.

At all. Uh, not yet. It was like, since you've been gone. behind these hazel eyes the pink stuff and I think he was just doing Averill then and like he was just playing me like his first beats that were like

like pot like like the pre to Britney yeah like he was like getting in with Britney and stuff and he was working with Max a lot and I didn't even know who he was when I met him I knew nothing about pop music and like I first played him my thing

and I was like I was like this girl introduced me to him her name's Mara She's not really She was not so much in the music business anymore But she used to work She's as really Yeah exactly She used to work for this place called songs

Publishing and they were trying to sign me And she was like look she was like I know The deal's not right and they're too competitive And we can't sign it Because songs wasn't big Yeah She was like I know

This was 10 years ago So she was like She was like I know the deals are Are a little too competitive And stuff She was like but you should meet this guy.

His name's Luke and I was like, cool. And like, I go and I meet him. I'm in another session, but I like break and I go and I meet him. And I'll play him my songs. And I only had like, I only had like three beats. Yeah. Like, so I would like play one at the beginning

and the meeting one at the end and then I'd like send them one after. If they ever ask me for anything else, like I'd never answer again. So I played, I played the song. and like I'm at I'm like you know he's like given his whole spiel and I'm like and the meeting's about to end and he's like hey burn me a CD so I burn him a CD and I'm like here and he goes nah I don't need it and I was like I thought you just told me to burn your CD he's like nah

I don't need it man so I'm like all right so I sit there and I leave the meeting and I'm like man I'm like what's I'm like what's going on I'm like guy didn't like me like I go to my next I'm like, man, this guy doesn't even like, this guy doesn't even care. And so then I go and I I get a phone call and it's Luke and he's like,

hey, he's like, do you want to come make music with me? And I was like, uh, sure, what? Yeah. I was like, I was like, I thought you didn't like my stuff. He's like, nah man, he's like, I liked your stuff so much that I knew I didn't have to hear it again. And I was like, all right, so I go and I like make music with them and the first day we we spent all night making music yeah it was horrible it was so

really i remember i thought you're gonna be like and then i kissed a girl no i you know it's like like so bad it was so bad it was so bad and then we made music all day the next day all day the next day and i remember at this point i was living in like because after i got my deal remember my mom only was gonna pay for one year for one year so so i was uh i didn't have a house so i and i and i i had money for my record deal but for some reason we were like we were touring little we were doing this we were doing that and like I was just all over the place so I was just

bouncing from house house and I was staying with someone in a really bad part of Brooklyn so it's like every night like I'm coming home at like five in the morning I'm like I kept telling Luke I was like yo I can't do this anymore like I can't I got it I I'm sorry I can't

I can't do this we have to work more normal hours and then he's like and then he like didn't call me for two days. Right. And then all of a sudden, I get a, I get a phone call and he's like, yo, he's like,

do you want to come out to L.A. with me? Right. And I was like, sorry. And I was like, and I was like, I was like, sure. I was like, I'll do it. And like, I came out,

and he, like, asked me if I wanted to do a publishing deal. And like, I had all these publishing deals, but I didn't even know what a publishing deal was. Right. Like I had never had like like none of my songs ever like made money. Like I didn't know what it was. Of course. And and I almost didn't sign to him.

And like last minute I was just like I remember I was writing like these. I had like a family lawyer as a lawyer. Like and I was just like and like there. Somebody who does like taxes. Yeah. And it was like there was like a thing. It was like if you get a number one. There was like something in the contract like something.

And he was like oh well that's never going to happen. So like don't worry. Like there was like things like like. Like, he was like, oh, don't worry about that. And I was like, because we didn't know, like, I didn't know. Like, and I was like, like, already, like, I had already, like, I had never, you know, I had never really had a job. Like, that was my first job. Like, I'm 17, 18 years old.

So, like, I'm like, whoa, I'm like, dude, I, like, I never have to work again. And I have, like, no money. Right. And it all just happened so fast after that. I was like, I just opened my eyes. and then it's, you know, 2010 at this point. And I'm like, whoa, how did I just have

fucking six number ones in one year? How did last year I had this? You know, I remember calling, and my parents still, what happened in Spain? Like here you're having these massive is in his, it's like spank rock at the time. Is spank rock at this time being like, what happened to our band?

Or are you like, or at this point? At this point, he, you know, he was going through some stuff like himself. and it was a big time. Like, you know, like, he, like, he kind of slowed down a little bit after that. And it was just, it kind of happened at the same time. He, like... And you're just, you just keep your head down when you're writing with anybody.

But when you're writing with Luke, especially the people I know that spend most time with them, it's sort of like you just go into kind of a cave of writing. And then afterwards, it's like all these songs have come out. But like it seems like nobody's... There was no one. It was me. I was the only person signed to leave. Oh, right, yeah.

And he was, he was at the same time when I was working with him, he, he hadn't signed Katie yet. He was about to sign Katie. Right. When I was working with him. There was no one else. And he was like, and Katie was nothing. Like we had just started work. He was like, you want to work with this girl?

And like, the first time I met Katie, she was like, yo, she was like, yo. because we still had like a few Spank Rock things going on. She was like, can you get me into your show in L.A.? Like I remember like she was like, it was like the first time I met Skeet too. And she was like, can you get me into like the show in the L.A.? Like that was for like 400 people and she couldn't get in. Like and she, the first song we wrote was so bad. Me and her wrote a song together and it was so horrible.

It was called like, My Body is the Bomb or something. It was like, my body is the bomb. and it was like, pooh, and it had like, it had like an explosion sound in it. And it was like, it was fucking awful.

Yeah. And, like, I have a feeling like Luke was like, why the fuck did I sign this dude? Right. Like, sure.

And I feel like the first, I started like kind of writing like, like Vanessa Hudgens and stuff. Right, of course. And then the first thing I really wrote, like, and I was like,

wow, this could really be something cool, is I did, circus with Claude Kelly. Yeah. And I was like, I was like, whoa. And that was like my first big song.

And at the same time I did that, I worked with this band called 303. Yeah, sure. And they had like no money. They couldn't even fly me out. I had to like bring my own gear on a train. And we record it. And then like,

those two songs go number one. Yeah. And I'm just like, whoa. I'm like, this is crazy. So, and like my parents still don't get it. Like they're like, okay. Yeah, they're like, well what's going to be like your backup goal?

Right. They're like what's going to happen like when you don't have number ones. When you don't. And I'm like, because you know, had not gotten a check for it. So it's like I'm still living off the money. Right. And they're thinking that this is some somebody's taking advantage of you and all that. They don't even know.

They don't even know. They don't even know. They're like, like, okay. But like what are you going to do? I'm like, but I'm in the studio with Britney Spears. I remember like I told my dad. And he was like, yeah. Okay.

And I'm like, no, no. I'm serious. and then like the rest is just kind of a blur man yeah i mean when you go off on your own and you're like hey i'm going to go and start working with maroon five or you know i guess it's sort of on your own i mean is there a point there where you're like i'm going to do this or did you purposely go off on your own or you like oh i'm going to just write this song with now my friends from home or shellback or like how do you go and just say okay well here's i was always making records i guess three's not with you know that's on I was always making records on my own with Luke.

It's just that once me and Luke locked in, it's like we went in that cave. We fucking locked in and we just wrote like, and it was just, he didn't have a lot of writers, so it was just like me and him, just like every day, like cranking everything out. And then I think... Like moves like Jagger and Stereyheart sort of begins

your own publishing company and your own thing, you know? Yeah. I think what happened was, I was just I don't know I just I started I was just

willing to take a lot more risks than like I think a lot of people in the music industry were like dude well it doesn't it wasn't that kind of scary to be like all right now or at this point

you've already had seven number one songs and I don't think about it like that yeah and I I think it was I think it was the time when everyone was just like they were like okay well like

you know this isn't Beny doing this. You know, this is like Dr. Lou. Obviously like, obviously like Benny doesn't know how to do all this stuff. Like it's all loop.

And like, and like, which is obvious for them to think. I mean, everything he touched at that point was like fucking gold. Right. And, and I think at that point that year for me, people were like,

oh, they were like, I get it. Like when that happened. And for me, I remember Max was with me in the studio, Max Martin. And I play him stereo hearts. And he's like,

And he just looks at me and he's like, oh, wow. He's like, you can do this. That's what he said to me. He just looked at me and he just goes, and he just goes, and like Max is like, he's like very reserved. And he just goes, he goes, this song's going to be really big. And then he just walks out of there. But like when he said that to me, I was like, oh my God. Like I was like crying a little bit.

It's really hard to define yourself in this business when you come up from under someone else. And yet if you don't, it's really hard to get in. Yeah. I think, I imagine that for Max, it was that, oh, it's Dennis Pop. Yeah, of course. And not Max. And, you know, I'm sure that for any of us who have had cuts with other people, it's like, it's hard. You have to just keep writing so you have enough records out there that people are, oh, yeah, maybe he is an X factor.

Yeah. And he's not like just a guy who's just always coincidentally, you know, there. In the room. And sometimes you are that guy. I don't know. Yeah, sure, sure. Maybe I am that guy. I'm the coincidental guy.

Over and over. Yeah, just a lot of times. But yeah, no, it was just like, and like with Maroon 5, man, I remember I was like, yo, we should put someone like on this record. You know, one of my friends came up with the idea and I was like,

yo, no, I was like, we should put Adam Levine on stereo hearts. And everyone was like, they're like, we're not putting him on stereo. The guy's washed up. They're like, we can't put him on a record right now. They're like, no one. And then like, and then like, we just did it.

And then when we did the song, he was like, hey, his manager, was like, we want to put out a single. He's like, Adam's going to be on this new show. It's going to kind of be like American Idol. And everyone's like, everyone's like never work. They're like, okay, like American Idol is the American Idol. And then fast forward.

It's like the biggest show ever. Yeah, it's out of control. Yeah, I mean, now you have also, you have a record label that's obviously doing well. I can imagine that watching people like Tori Lanes and, you know, Rinn and Rickston and all of it, that there's sort of a fatherly role, even though you're younger than most people. I imagine that you're sort of now enough people look up to you as, you know, the guy who leads the way. It's kind of interesting. I mean, you're the youngest guy who has, who has so many people that rely on your advice,

you know, musically and record-wise. I just can imagine that all these artists, you have are so different and they all depend on you is that like is that is there pressure in that are you just having a blast with it or is it more exciting to watch tory lanes succeed than yourself or i mean this is seems like a new chapter for you to really have mad love be kind of the the the new focus for you or is it not really the new focus for you now now i'm nervous i never thought about it till just now yeah right uh you know there's something about from the first time that

from my very first signing, Amar, that first moment when that person has their first big record. It's like, and even like for you, man, like when with the Lady A stuff, like for me, like those means so much more to me. Because it's like, I'm not gonna say you get like numb to it.

It's like every time any one of my songs is on the radio or it comes out because everyone, I'm like, oh my God. Like anytime I hear like one of my songs, I'm like, I'm like, Oh, like I've never heard it before. Like, you know, it's like the most exciting rush in the world. Sure.

And I, but there's just something about. Yeah, it's like having a kid. There's something about, re-seeing all the joy of that. Yeah, just being able to do it that is so much more rewarding to me. Yeah. Than doing it myself. Like, like seeing someone, like seeing someone else. Because it's like our dream already came true.

It's like seeing someone else's dream come true and getting to be a part of that and be like, holy shit like I just did for you what this person did for me and it's like and it's like you never forget that shit and it's like part of I don't know it's yeah it's the greatest feeling in the world is it really hard yes but luckily I have incredible people sure and I get to work with incredible artists all my artists are so fucking and writers are talented spend the amount of time you are with one Republican and cheering for their next albums that are coming out let alone all the other stuff. I know that we both know that's going on. It's like

it's just crazy. You're part of the pantheon of pop music. You know? I mean, that's a crazy thing. Just to get to play in it is so fun. Yeah, it's like, I all the time, like I was talking to my mom the other day and I was just like, mom, I was like, this is so fucking weird.

I was like, this is my job. Because I was like complaining about something to my mom. I was like, I was like, I'm so tired. I was like, I just worked with like Ed Sheeran for a weekend. and now I have to go, like, work with the weekend next week. Right, yeah. And I'm like, and then I like, I like snapped out of it.

I'm like, sure. I was like, mom, I was like, what the fuck am I talk about? Like, this is my job. I'm like, I'm eating food sitting outside during a work day, taught complaining to you about how I got to work with like all these incredible people. I'm like, what the fuck am I talking about? Sure. So it's like, there's definitely those pinch me moments like constantly.

Yeah. Yeah, I imagine. I mean, I think, you know, one of the things. that I'm one of the first impressions I had of you was going to your place in New York and you had art and good furniture and a good view and there's all this there's quality taste in how you live your life and I think one of the most impressive things is that there were there wasn't one platinum record in your house that I could find but there was one like face. platinum record from the children's hospital thanking you for spending time and to me like that that said

you know there's that expression of money doesn't buy class yeah and i think it's cool to see someone leading the way for our generation of writers to showing that that the concept of bullies that that exists throughout society where there's been this anti-bullying campaign and it works in music too it's like bullies aren't doing very well in the music business either

and you see it all over the place and the bullies are losing and the people who are nice and communal and loving and are supportive of each other they're the ones that are leading the way and so I got to say that obviously I have a lot to thank for you

you know because you've been involved in a big portion of my professional writing career but for a lot of people i think you've had a a positive influence so i feel like thank you thank you i feel like it's just all about it's all about karma and the way you treat people in this if you treat people well it's going to make you feel good because you're treating someone well it's going to make them feel good and it's like no matter who you are man life's about ups and downs and you're going to have a lot of ups and you're going to have a lot of downs. And when you're down,

if you treat people right, everyone's going to give you that second chance. And it's like, I've definitely had times where, like, I wasn't doing so high. People gave me a shot to be in the room. And, like, I feel like I'm just super blessed. Like, I feel like I am that guy

who's just randomly in the right place of the right time. I feel like everyone's talent around me is so far superior. to mine. They say that a lot about people who are successful, that they want to, that that's the one thing is that they hope

that nobody realizes that they're, no one wants them to notice their faults. No one wants to have people realize that, yeah, like, I'm a really average guitarist and I'm a really shitty piano player. Yeah. And I, I sing like a white guy and no matter what I do,

and yet it's like how I manipulate my voice or record certain things. Like, I don't want people to really realize how bad I am at a lot of things. But it's for real, you're like, I'm just waiting for the day. Like, someone's like, all right, Benny. Like, you know, we've been, like, messing with this whole time. Yeah, yeah, right.

Yeah. Time to get a regular job. Could you please get the fuck out of the studio right now immediately? Yeah. Either that or it's the Truman Show. Yeah. I'm pretty sure that that's what's going on right now is that this has been a joke of a career.

Because there's no way when you think that. a couple hundred million people are listening to your song weekly or whatever it is. It's just a statistically impossible thing to grasp. Yeah, no, it's really weird. Like when like the song is like the number one. Like love yourself. It's just like, come on, man. That song, at some point I was going to come over here and just strangle you because it's like,

I can't. You'd go one station and be on that, the next one and be on that. You're like, oh, then I'll go to the urban, a rhythmic station. And it's on that and you're like, fuck you. And it's probably on the country. station too. I don't have a radio, so I've, um, I've actually never heard that one on the radio. Oh my God. Dude, I've never, just turn it on for five minutes. I've never, it's not even, it's not even like, oh, I heard it once. Yeah. I heard it one time in an Uber. But like, yeah, I don't, um, I don't

have a car or anything, so I don't. Sure. I don't really. I don't really know where I'd hear it. I don't even have Spotify. Well, I like your rug. Thanks. We put it in special today for you. Thanks. Tied the room. You're a good man. Thank you for being part of this podcast. Thanks. I just got shut off. It was like we were in the middle of something and there was all these other questions left. No, I know. Ross just like scrolling through him and then he just shut the thing and he's like, well, it's just like, I don't know where, you know, I'm not sure. I don't know where we could go from here. He's like, you don't do anything. There's so much. I want to ask.

There's so many questions about all these people and all these, you've written with. The best. And I remember seeing, you know, seeing, you gave, you got an award from the songwriter Hall of Fame already as a, as a, you know, and you're, at the time you're probably 25, 26 when you're getting an award that, I mean, who's, you know that you have to be in the industry for, I think, more than 20 years to be eligible to be inducted. Yeah. And they're doing like the, you know, you get that rising star.

What is, what's it called? The one I got. Yeah. Hal David. Yeah, so it's, you know, it's just incredible. There's so many questions and there's so many things about, you know, your opinion on where music is today. And, you know, you're part of global, which is a new PRO, and you're part of this relationship with the best writers and artists in the world. I mean, I feel like I could talk to you for six hours about this.

Want to sleep over? Yeah, we should just do a sleepover. We don't even need to do the cameras. You can just, like, ask me the questions. But I do, look, this is, all right, so the real reason why we started doing this podcast, you know, part of it was because... Because you wanted to learn? Because, yeah, a little bit. And because you have, you know how, this is how every session starts anyway.

Yeah. You just sit there and you talk about shit and somebody tells you about your life. And it's like, man, if people saw that, they'd be interested. Instead, you know, they show some sort of behind the music and it'll be people sitting at a mixing board. Nobody's sat at your fucking mixing board in 40 years. I don't even know how to use a mixing board. I was thinking about getting one that just doesn't work and putting it in my studio so it looks professional.

Like behind the music stuff is such a joke because people think that that's how music is made or recorded. I still do. I'm like, why don't I have a mixing board? Yeah. And every studio go to, they haven't. How many times have you seen anyone use it? The best is this is what happens every time you go to studio.

I'm like, hey, can we get like an ox score to play music in? And they look at you like you have eight heads. And it's like no one's ever asked them that question forever. And they can never get, they have a board with 700 channels on it, but you want to play one iPod and they can never get a tour. They're like, oh, hold on, it'll just take a second. We're just going to have to rewire and build a new mixing board for this. I don't have a CD player.

You know, and people hand me not very often, but people hand me CDs. I go and buy my, any CD that I have that's out, I go buy it just because I still like the process of opening it up and see my name. You know? So I still do that, but I don't even have a CD player. Wait, do you open them up and look at your name? Yeah. Every time?

Yeah, because that was the goal. What was the fucking goal? My goal initially was to get a record deal. And I got a record deal. And I was like, I just want to be able to buy it in a store. And I was fortunate enough to get an album in Virgin Megastore before those all closed. Yeah. And to go into a music store and find it.

That shit is so dope. I had all these little ones. I was like, man, if I could just get a. a mixtape cut with Cameron and then I was like man if I could like just be on one dip set album sure and then I was like man if I could I remember I remember thinking about it I was like if I could be on one gold

album and I didn't even think about singing I didn't even know like I didn't even get it I was like how did they pick the song that like I didn't know that someone picked the songs I thought they just like put out the album and then like everyone liked one song I think it's funny because is that how you thought I still I still

I still think it is. I still hope it is on occasion, you know? There's no doubt that people would be appalled if they realize how songs get picked for singles. Yeah, it's like some old white dudes in a room. And they're like, well, statistically, white females that are 18 to 24 like the word, oh. You're giving way more credit. Those people are still in a room a lot of times. They're like, I like this one, or I like these people, or I like this people.

or I like this like situation or I think this is cool coming off of this song but it's still one guy's opinion in a room or three guys. You know what? I don't like that person who wrote that song we're not going to use this song. I mean that goes back to the karma thing

you bully enough people and eventually people don't want your fucking songs. Yeah. All right now I ran out of things to say. Let's end. Yeah, the end. Bye. Bye.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Ann the Writer is if you want to hear music from this songwriter I just interviewed, be sure to check out our Spotify playlist or visit our website at and the writer is.com. If you like what we're doing, please subscribe to us on iTunes.

You can also like us on Facebook and Twitter. And The Writer Is is produced by Joe London, edited by Miles Bergsma, and published by Big Deal Music. A special thanks to Jeff Sparger, David Silverstein from Mega House Music, and Michael White. Until next time, this,

is Ross Golan.