And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan - Ep. 140: J White Did It

Episode Date: August 16, 2021

Today’s Grammy Award winning guest is one of today’s most successful producers, songwriters, and DJs of this generation. He began his career as a DJ in Kansas City, producing beats for several artists before meeting Cardi B and producing her chart-topping singles, "Bodak Yellow, "I Like It” and “Money.” In 2020, our guest produced "Savage" by Megan Thee Stallion featuring Beyoncé, which hit number one on the Billboard Hot 100, as well as "A Lot” by 21 Savage featuring J. Cole, which reached number 12 on the Hot 100. He executive produced Iggy Azalea's second studio album, In My Defense, and its lead single "Sally Walker". Our guest also produced the tracks "Started" and "Freak of the Weak” as well as “Muwop” for Mulatto and Gucci Mane, just to name a few. And The Writer Is… Anthony Jermaine White aka J White Did It!Artwork: Michael Richey White Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey guys, welcome to Ann the Writer is. I'm your host, Ross Golan. I've written with hundreds of artists and writers over the years, and my favorite part of each session is the first hour when we catch up about life, the industry, politics, composition, whatever. So this is a journey of learning why people write songs, how people write songs, and most importantly, who the people are who write the songs.

I'm producing this with the Great Joe London, big deal music publishing, and Mega House Music Management. If you want to listen to the songs we discuss in this podcast, follow us on our socials, find out about special live events, or buy that merch, aka that hat I always wear. Go to our website www. And The Writer is.com. Welcome to And The Update is.

I am your host, Paige MacDonald, and this is your weekly music industry update. Hypnosis Songs Fund has acquired a catalog consisting of 115 songs from Christine McVee, who is best known as when, of the principal writers and vocalists of Fleetwood Mac. Starting on January 1st of 2022, Tungi Balagan will be the new chairman and CEO of Def Jam Recordings. Bill Ackman's Pershing Square has bought 7.1% of Universal Music Group. This 7.1 acquisition has cost Pershing Square $2.8 billion. Roundhill CEO Josh Gruss has established the Josh Gruss-Rournsk-Musk-endowed scholarship fund

with a $1 million donation to Berkeley College. Sony Music Entertainment, Germany has acquired a stake in Tiger Media International GMBH, establishing what the company says will be a long-term strategic partnership in the kids' entertainment market. Warner Music Entertainment has partnered with Lightbox to co-produce, co-develop and co-finance non-fiction film and TV projects. For those who don't know, Lightbox is a London, Los Angeles-based television and film production company. Jack White's Third Man Records is expanding into London, making the launch the first-ever third-man record store outside of the U.S.

The London-based artist music business development company Killing Moon Group has launched the Music Federation in partnership with Believe. The Music Federation provides services-based distribution as well as label services solutions. Tempo has invested in the catalog of Tyler Joseph of 21 Pilots. The investment selection includes 21-1. pilot songs, including the Diamond certified stressed out, ride and heathens. AEG has announced that they will require concert goers and staff to be vaccinated for all of their concerts.

Bonarru and Summerfest are requiring COVID-19 vaccines or negative tests to attend. S-10 Publishing has signed Build a Bitch co-writer David Arkwright. Casey Tindle has signed to Riverhouse Artists and Sony Music Publishing Nashville. Casey Tyndall has shared the stage with many musicians, including Kane Brown, Kelsey Ballerini, Whiskey Myers, Jamie Johnson, and many others. Universal Music Australia will be investigating inappropriate behavior. Anonymous allegations about the workplace culture were posted on an Instagram account called Beneath the Glass ceiling late last month, and so far two Sony Music Australia execs have departed. Former and the writer is guest, Phineas, has topped Hot 100 songwriters and producer charts,

thanks to Billy Elish's happier than ever. For the first time ever, Berkeley College is opening their doors to non-musicians. The music school is now offering a Bachelor of Arts and Music Industry leadership and innovation. Britney Spears's dad, Jamie Spears, has finally agreed to stepping down as conservator of her estate.

Hollywood Park is opening a new 6,000 capacity YouTube theater which will be promoted by Live Nation. Cardi B. has signed with Warner Chapel. This move from Sony Music Publishing comes in advance of Cardi's long-awaited second full-length album. A big thank you to Haley Evans of Megahouse for gathering today's news. Now stay tuned for this week's episode of End the Writer Is. Welcome to End the Writer Is. I am your host, Ross Golan.

Today's Rising Legend is a multi-grammy award nominated and winning producer whose top billboard charts not just once or twice, but three times. This custodian turned a DJ, turned to record producer, started making beats at the ripe old age of 16 years old. After moving to NYC in 2005, and after a decade of ups and downs, closed doors, near winds, and personal tragedy, he finally did it, landing in rooms with Cardi B. Offset, Megan B. Stallion, and many, many, many more. from Leavenworth, Kansas by way of Dallas, Texas. His inspiring story to greatness, and multiple number ones will show you how he did it and how he has more hits on the way.

And the writer is Anthony Germain White, aka J. White did it. Welcome. Oh, snap, bruh. What an intro. Yes. I love it. This is like, this is your Patrick Mahomes moment, man. I mean, I went, I went to, I'm a Chicago Bears fan and so I'll never forget when he walked, when he walked into Soldier Field and flash, flash, yeah, exactly, 10 fingers to show that

he was drafted 10th this year that Mitchell Chubisky was drafted second. So not to get into football, but I know you're a big fan of the Chiefs. Yeah, man. Congratulations on an excellent season so far. Hey, man, you know, we're doing what we're supposed to do, man. We're doing what we're supposed to do right now. We're doing it. Keep it up.

We're almost there. Did you ever play? In the high school, but honestly, it took me one good time in practice sophomore year to get hit very hard. and I realized that football wasn't for me anymore. So I was like, you know, and I can't catch that good anyway. But what I can do is make some, well, I can't play the drums and I do like doing music. So I'm going to just transition and start figuring out how to do this music thing.

And it literally started from a hit in football practice. I think he hit me so hard that he made me want to do something different. That's a hit. Like, damn. I remember his name is Dallas Austin. To this day, I remember who this got. Dallas Austin took me the hell out like six foot three or four. At the time, I'm like five, nine, 150 pounds of pure bone.

And Dallas literally just, like, yeah. Like, I said for like, I think he injured me for life because like, after that hit, I saw him having like heart palpitations. Like it's weird. Seriously. It was, you. I mean, Dallas Austin is. I mean, I mean, not Dallas Austin.

His name is Dallas. God damn. Not, not, not. Don't shoot me. Not, not, no, not you, Dallas Austin. it's another Dallas. I'm sorry. Imagine if one of your fellow great producers

is the one who somehow knocked you out? Yeah, no, my Dallas fucking Austin. That's my brother. No, his name is Dallas. I forgot his name, last name. But anyway, Dallas, I remember he knocked me the hell out. Dallas, if you see this,

I'll take you out for coffee or something like there, bro. Like, I'm pretty sure you're still big, and I'm pretty sure you're still strong. So, but you obviously, you started producing pretty young. Hell yeah. That's a little bit of the story. Leavenworth is super famous for being a, you know, one of the great penitentiaries in the United States.

Did your family work at all related to anything like that? What was it like to grow up in a town that has the biggest federal? prison. I wouldn't say my family worked in the prison, but I feel like they worked in the prison, if you know what I mean. Like, I had a lot of

my family inside of it, and they weren't guards. You know, they, it was definitely the prisoners, you know. I had a couple cousins worked at the prison, but just being in Leavenworth. Matter of fact, since it's just us,

let me just give you a more real in-depth story of me before Leavenworth. I was actually born in Arkansas. Oh, wow. Yeah, so I'm, I was born in a place called Blitheville, Arkansas. So I moved to Leavenworth around

three years old. So from three years old to maybe 12, I bounced back and forth from Arkansas to Leavenworth. Until finally, like, eighth grade, I just stayed in Leavenworth. it's on out.

You know what I mean? But I'm, you know, sometimes I catch slack from people from Arkansas because they feel like I don't talk about them much at all. But, you know, a reason why, because I just never had a good time being in Arkansas. Like, I've always had nothing but terrible memories. So I've always tried to just delete that.

Well, what kind of terrible memories? What is that? Man, so, you know, back, Arkansas, like, um, that's where, like, I got picked on the most, you know, as a kid, uh,

walking to school, walking from school, um, you know, like my, my mother, um, got rest of soul,

you know, she, uh, at the time, you know, like in the early 90s, late 80s, that was a crack epidemic,

you know what I'm saying? Like, it was terrible. So, um, she became a thief so to support her habit

so I would go to school and I remember this second grade I remember this she like would steal me sewn the same clothes the clothes would be new

but it would be the same exact thing so one time I wore the same outfit to school and there's like the kid was like you know you were that yesterday I said

No, I didn't. This is brand new. My mom's got me the same thing. And then one kid was like, yeah, because your mom was a stealer. She was at my house selling us meat. And I was like, oh. And then from that, I started to form a false narrative of my life. So therefore, I started to imagine myself being a different person. Imagine me having an actual mom that wasn't on drugs.

and I started to imagine myself actually having my dad in my life so I built up a false narrative of just making myself somebody who I wasn't. You know what I mean? So I became a different person on the inside.

So a lot of times, MTV raised me. So just with that being said, I didn't really understand hip-hop music until I got maybe Like in maybe at the age of maybe 13, 14, I started to just embrace hip-hop music because I really didn't like it. If it wasn't on MTV, I didn't know what it was, you know, because I just felt the connection to MTV. But Arkansas, man, hell, that's where my mother was killed at.

You know, now it would be, in two weeks, it would be six years. She was killed in that same place that I told her not to go back to, Bliveville, Arkansas. I lived in the projects in Bliveville. Bliveville is a small town. If you look it up, our population there is probably 13,000, 14,000 people. Maybe. I don't know. If that, it's a very, very small town.

But it's one of, like, the most dangerous towns because there's a lot of murders I've had. of murders in my family there. I've seen a lot of my family members strung out on drugs. I got some good family members that still maybe lingering there. But for the most part, as a kid growing up there, for the little time I was there, I didn't have the fondest of memories there. You know what I mean? It was just a lot of times going to school and just really trying to build a different

life at school that I didn't have at home, you know, and just being a kid, I know material things as whatever, but, you know, being a young person, kids are, you know, kids are just going to say what they're going to say. And, you know, I didn't have the best shoes. My grandma did the best she could, you know, it would be times where my grandma, I told her to stop, drop me off at school because her car was so loud. Like, it sounded like eight motorcycles driving together. I mean, so I would have to drop me off down the street so I could just walk up to the school and to the point to where I was like, you know what, grandma, I'll just walk to school because it's going to save me the embarrassment of getting laughed at when I get out this

1978 or 77 tornado. You know what I'm saying? That the ceiling was falling into. You know what I mean or, you know, just not, you know, just not having the other stuff that I saw kids have. But, you know, it was just my mission, honestly, to just never be like that. And honestly, when I left there, permanently, I said that I never wanted to come back there ever again in my life, you know. And, you know, some people who was from that area love that area. but, you know, I just never honestly liked that area. So it's like in my head, I said, damn, I really did a good-ass job of honestly deleting that city from my life because nobody talks about it. But the older I get, the more I need to be more transparent about who I really am and just learning, you know, not to be, you know, ashamed of, you know, my whole history.

because I was very ashamed of being that kid from Blasdville, Arkansas. You know, I always said, yo, I'm from Kansas City, which I grew up there. I did. That's my heart. That's my home. That's all my, I got family there, friends. I just got in yesterday from Kansas City. Like, literally, I love that place.

And I said, damn, I really wish I was really from that area born there. but, you know, I just grew up there for the most part. You know, I'm really from Arkansas. You know what I mean? Like, I'm really from there. But like I said, the short time I was there, I had the worst, you know, experiences. You know, I, like I said, I can't recall anything really good except for just gaining an appreciation for hard work and having a tough skin. you know

I think that's how I was raised there you know from I literally was torture I literally got made fun of all the time like I wore glasses like the big

Steve Rorkel glasses you know because you know we was on welfare so we got only what the welfare is going to pay for you know what I mean like it was just you know

do you have contact with anybody from that era Do people from that era at all look at you and realize the person that you've become? A few people, a few people who remember me because I literally vanished from that place. Like I literally made myself like nonexistent dead. The only people who know I'm from there is my family members and they got constantly remind people. No, he's from here. He's from here. He's from here. You know, so, yeah.

a few people that know that I'm from there you know it's like a big you know it's exciting but it's almost disheartening to them because I don't ever talk about it so it's almost like it's not real because even if you look on my Wikipedia

it's wrong it says I was born in Dallas you know what I'm saying and I have no recollection of Arkansas nowhere on my bio you know what I mean yeah Well, was there, you know, I know your parents were church singers. Yeah, man. Yeah.

So, like, you grew up around this place that clearly was really negative. Yeah. But there must have been a lot of music in your life. And with MTV being influential and church music being influential, do you think of that era at all as a, you know, the place where you were, introduced to music or do you think of that as Kansas? No, no, no. I was introduced to music, you just initially in Arkansas.

You know, as a baby, as soon as my mom had me, you know, at 16, she, you know, she's in a singing group. So they, you know, and my grandmother was too. And my dad was, you know, he was doing his thing playing with gospel artists and traveling around and doing his thing as well. So I was in the church. As soon as I was, I mean, able to go outside. I was in the church already listening and hearing whatever they was playing. You know, and I always had the love for just not the singing aspect of it, but the musical side of it.

So, you know, I would oftentimes like, you know, down there, they have a bunch of singing programs on Friday and Saturday. So my grandmother had me in church like seven days a week pretty much. So Friday and Saturdays, I literally, you know what I mean, would go and just sit by. the drummers or the guitar players or piano players if they play sax, whatever, I would literally sit there and just be at awe.

I'm like, oh, my God. Like, they are controlling the crowd at a young game. Like, man, this is really cool. Like, these are like the rock stars. Like, everybody loved them. And it felt like an escape. It felt like what I, it lined up with what the narrative I was creating in my head.

Like, this is what I want to be. and then the drummer was just the coolest guy ever. So I was like, damn, I like the drummer. So that's what I want to do. I want to play drums. My uncle plays drums. That's a cool guy. So maybe people will stop making fun of me there.

It seems like a lot of our best songwriters are church alumni. Yeah, man. What is it about music that you learn? in a church that is so, that's so transferable, that's so, you know, it just, it, it feels like the root of everything. I mean, what, what is that? Why, why are church musicians so good? Because one, one thing that you can't run from is the feeling and the energy. And I've always kept that, you know, if it feels good, it's going to touch people right then there. just like being a musician in church

you know exactly what to do to invoke the energy into the crowd and make them, if that church is a church that really loves music especially the black churches I mean like the Southern Baptist church is Pentecost to, it's like shout music man like we get our energy

from the music from the choir and sometimes you know when I was playing drums I would just get so caught up in the music it just takes over my body and that energy as I'm hitting drums it's going out into the crowd

and I'm feeding off of that you know what I mean? So when it comes to me producing now I still have that same energy if I feel that I know somebody else is going to feel that too so I would do little things at church back in the day

and I would do little things just to get a reaction like okay Oh, yep. Boom. There go. Brother Johnny right there. He's about to, got him up. Then all of a sudden, boom, boom, boom, boom. Whole church on fire.

Let's go. Offering time. Let's get it. Seriously. I learned there from my daddy. My dad, he knew how to invoke that sound of people, and he played little things just to get them excited. And he made a move on that guitar, you know, he made him move well. I just studied,

I studied it like, damn, it's little, and that's honestly, that's what stuck with me, is the energy, the emotion that, you know, gospel artists and musicians put into songs, like, you can listen to a gospel song now and start crying because of the emotion you can hear them singing in for the most part. You learned a lot of that, I assume, in Kansas City then, right? By the time you start getting into the plane. Yeah. Yeah.

Now, Kansas City, and a lot of people don't know this. I'm sure you do, but, you know, a lot of our listeners might not know that Kansas City is the home of some of the greatest music in American history. Charlie Parker, Count Basie, Berc, Eric, Akrak. The list is Lester Young. Like, it is the home of what we now... Yeah, it was the difference of... There was, you know, there were a lot of movements in jazz, but what Charlie Parker brought to B-Bob,

what Count Basie brought by bringing blues and basically the, you know, you could argue he's sort of the father of R&B music. And it's like, you know, it's all Kansas City based. And, you know, music now, I know that there's Atlanta and there's L.A. and there's Nashville. But Kansas City was the home of so much amazing American city. Yes. What did Kansas City have that, what does that city have that all the other cities don't?

I don't know as far as like what we have that other cities don't. I'll say, I just know me coming up in it, what we didn't have was a lot of things to do. You know what I mean? So being in Kansas City, just area, it's either you're going to do a couple of things. You're going to play sports. You're going to work at the prison. You're going to join the military. You're going to work at a hallmark.

mark. Or you're going to do R&B music. You know what I mean? R&B is so huge. Like bars just like jazz and, you know, that whole, it's huge there, you know, back home. You know, I honestly don't know why our culture there is so, I mean, the jazz and everything and the musicians that we had there,

it was a mecca at the time. So I think me, you know, me not knowing the whole history of it, I'll say that I feel like their energies, their kids, their, you know, their offspring, whatever, whatever stayed there in Kansas City. And it is really just, it's like the way of the land there. It was like, we all do R&B. Like hip-hop music was a last thing for me to learn how to do. you know what I mean like I didn't understand rap music I didn't understand why do we have all these damn 808s why we need so much damn bass like ugh why can't we just do the music side and just be cool you know what I mean like let's no turn that bass down let me just let me hit some chords let me hit some nice r&B chords and I'm good like to this day bro I'm saying literally if you go sitting if you ride with me in my car you're gonna hear music soul child you know there's a There are limited places for musicians to have their music heard in Kansas City. Obviously, you know, too far from St. Louis and there's some music scene there and, you know, too far from a few places.

But how does someone in Kansas City who starts making beats realize that the beats are any good? And, you know, what's the, what's the process of that? How do you get noted the musician in Kansas City? Great question. You know, as a musician, on that side, that's pretty easy, just being church. And the good musician is going to rise to the top. You know what I mean? As far as the Kansas City goes.

But as far as being like a good music producer, that's a different journey. You know, because nobody's flying into Kansas City and looking for us, nobody's coming in to, you know, sign us or do anything, you know, unless you want to go to Tech Nine and go to his label, you know, with Travis, strange music, you know, shout to them. You're pretty much scratching the surface. So for the longest, you know, with myself, I was really trying to figure,

it out. I would go to St. Louis and whatnot and try to link up with people, especially doing the whole St. Louis, you know, the St. Louis surgeons of, you know, Nelly and Chiquon and Chingi and, you know, that whole little era of time. St. Louis is like almost like the Atlanta close to us. So I would take a couple trips there and, I mean, I didn't know what the hell I was doing, but I was like, well, everybody getting signed from here so I guess I need to be around but what happened for me was

I started using social media early when you know we were still on AOL Messenger and you know Yahoo Messenger and stuff like that you know so I was on this app called Black Planet and that's how I would start networking

honestly and I would just start talking the people who did music who was in chat rooms from, you know, around the country. And that's how I got, you know, my beats out there.

Honestly, I, you know, back in the day, I think really do a lot of emailing. You know, you had to actually do like some real mailing sometimes. So if you want to mail some beats to somebody, you're going to burn it on a CD and you're going to, and you're going to send it. You know what I mean?

In the mail. And that's what I did, you know, in the early times. And I found, like, one of my first people to work with, you know, besides the group that I was in, he was from New York, got red sister-so, you know, Jermaine Forster. I met him in a chat room on Black Planet back in 2005. And, you know, everything else kind of changed from there. You know, it was a moment to where.

you know, I would talk to do all the time and he just wanted beats and he pretty much, him and as a manager just came up with a thing where hey, if you make beats for my artists, you can come stay with us in our apartment, you know, in Queens. And we

won't charge you, you know, as long as you're making beats and whatnot for him. So back, you know, we don't got Instagram, we don't got Zoom back then, you know, we don't got none of that. All we have is each other's voice in our word and our intuition to make sure that this person ain't crazy.

That's like meeting a girl or something back in the day. Like, you're on a phone. Hey, how you doing? Yeah, I'm about, you know, da-da-da-da-da. Okay, that's meet up at the, you know, at the mall. I've had a couple bad experiences meeting girls back then. Oh, man, I met a couple of situations. That's a powerful thing to explain to people now that you actually used to, you'd go to a, you know, if you were at the old enough at that point to go to a bar, you'd go to a bar and not everyone would be on their phone because you could only do one function with your phone which was caller, maybe two, maybe you could text someone. But even before that, you probably

just had a bunch of people with their pagers out and like, so much you can do on your device. So you actually would talk to the people that were there and nobody was looking down at their phone because there was nothing to look at. you shouldn't be looking for bottles and who else was at the bar so eye contact was nonstop and you'd actually have to go and say hi to people and they would say hi to you because there were no phones it's hard to explain like there was an era for people it was like i think the start of everything that changed was when they brought in the damn sidekicks that's where everything changed first man the and like the g1 and the blackberry man it just took everything away man. Things start getting, you know, easier and easier, you know. Oh, and the two way.

You remember that when it came out? Yeah, I mean, I ended up being more of a Blackberry person, but, I mean, I still, I still, on some people's contacts in my phone to this day, there's still a PIN number. Because all the contacts just transferred over, and I still have, like, people's PIN numbers. Oh, my God. That's amazing.

Oh, that is so... Do you remember the chirp? The chirpump? Oh, Jesus. But, but, but, yeah, man, I mean... Wait, who gets you, you know, you're, you become this musician who can play in the church, you can hang there, but, and, and I know we jumped over to, you know,

St. Louis and whatnot, but there's got someone along the way that says to you, you know what you're you know what you're doing at home creating beats that's that's like that's like something you should send out you should burn to it you know what what gave you the confidence that what you were doing was real man it's weird because it's like my thoughts narrative that i've created in my head i had it going for so long you know what i mean that you say it's a false narrative? What if it's just your narrative? What makes it false? What makes it false was the lies that I told myself about my life, about who I was, about everything. You know, even the reason why I don't go by my first name, Anthony, you know, the reason why I go by

Jermaine, because back in the day I stuttered so bad, like, I couldn't talk. You know what I mean? Like, I couldn't say A's, couldn't say S's, couldn't say T's, couldn't say eight, I couldn't, you know, anything that started with, I was, ah, I was, you know what I mean? It was over. So, I just created a whole new person. I created Germain.

And Jermaine, dad was an army, his mom was a nurse, like, like, you know what I mean? Like, and that's when I say false narrative. You know what I mean? Because that's not true, you know.

So I just... Lose your stutter? When you... By changing your name and sort of changing the narrative, did that actually help you lose the stutter? Yeah. Yeah, it did. It did.

Because, like, eighth grade, like, when I, you know, when I came back to Kansas, eighth grade, I was Anthony, pretty much. Ninth grade, I was Anthony, but I was senior-tottering with, Germain a little bit, but in Leavenworth, you know, it's a military town. So we get a new

batch of kids come in every year. So I said, hey, this summer, I'm changing my name. And everybody would not know that this guy stutters. I'm actually going to be Germain. So I told all my friends, y'all, if y'all call me anything,

I'm not answering. Call me Germain. No. I'm Jermaine. I'm Jermaine. Jermaine, Jermaine, Jermaine, Jermaine, blah. And once I became Germain, I said, okay, I have a new slate now. I have a new slate to be somebody totally new.

Germain doesn't stutter. Anthony do. Germain don't. So therefore I became Jermaine. So was it like Jermaine produces beats and Anthony doesn't? Was it like that? It was like Anthony don't exist.

You know what I mean? Like, that's done with. Does Anthony exist now? Yeah, very much so You know, especially, yeah Anthony, that's my son's name Anthony Jr., you know what I mean? Like, I love my whole name

You know, but it was a bunch of insecurities, man. I had a bunch of insecurities, a bunch of insecurities, you know, just of my past, you know, my past, it was, it wasn't the most flattering, you know, being homeless, you know, with my mom and, man, sleeping on my cousin's wooden floor at the time with nails in it. Her daughter one time walked by and just kicked me in my face while I'm going to lay on the floor. And I was like, this ain't your house.

You know, you don't got anywhere to go. Stuff like that. You know what I mean? So having my little sister with me and having to take care of her at a young age trying to figure out how to get food for us. hence reasons why I was going back and forth to Kansas because I would call my grandmother and be like hey my mom ain't doing this or that

my grandmother was sin for me or my mom be like okay I'm gonna take y'all back up there and then one time it just got so bad that I just called my grandmother I said grandma like look my mama is doing this and she said well she didn't pay me mistreat my grandbabies

me and my little sister so I was like I don't know where we're going to sleep no more, grandma. This is happening here. And she came down and got me. And that was it. You know what I mean? So I was so embarrassed as a kid to just let people know my life like that. You know what I mean?

So when I said at a young age, I started creating little lies, little lies about myself. So I can make me, it was like self-medication, to make me. feel better and just saying, damn, I know this can't be my reality. This can't be my reality. It's just weird. This can't be my reality. How? Why was I born like this?

Why do everybody else parents get to come to the damn school and see them performing the play? And my grandma is sickly, so she might try to make it. Other than that, or the football game or basketball. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm done. I got to walk home. I'm done. You know what I mean? My grandma, hey, uh, Anthony, uh, hey, baby, how'd you do? Oh, grandma, I did pretty good. Okay, good. Remember, you can be whatever you want to be. You know what I mean? Keep going. And, you know, that, that was my support. That's so, so I created just things like, hey, where's your parents? They're, oh, well, my mom, she's,

at work all the time. My dad's in army, so he's Zada-da-da. Knowing that no, my dad is having sex with every female that he can, having kids everywhere on drugs and playing in church. What the fuck? Like, my mom is in prison every year and a half. She gets out, goes back to prison for the same

exact thing. Do you think that having these false the false narrative and having that you know, you're giving yourself this really high quality advice. What you did in parenting yourself is remarkable, man. Man, I just always felt like, I appreciate it.

I always felt like this wasn't it. And I said, this don't make sense to me. As a kid, I'm like, why, too, we got to have food. food stamps, you know, why do we have, why do we, we have to have less than others? Why? Why do, I got to go to the Salvation Army, you know, and get this. Why do I got to be on the census pick list for somebody to come buy us gifts and stuff like that?

Like, why, why can't my family just get together? So I just created my own, like, I, so my mission was to become, I'm very successful. I mean, it was successful to change the whole narrative of my family life. You know? I mean, obviously, you did that. You know, one of the, you know, as they say, it's like the hardest thing. There's a big difference between being homeless and having a home and having a home and having a mansion. You know, but there's a huge difference along the way.

and how were you able to, I mean, this is my, how were you able to get instruments? How are you able to get, how are you able to get the computer? How were you able to produce? Good question. Great question. Ross, great question, brother. You asked some good questions, by the way.

I'm just saying. But, let's start from, instruments, right? Okay, so learn how to play drums. I would literally just get pots and pans out the kitchen and boxes and stuff and set them in my room and just hit them. You know, and that's how I would practice at home. And that's when I was like in

11. But then, remember, I said that I was going to a lot of church programs. My grandmother was the cook in the morning she made breakfast breakfast for the church. It was only like maybe four members that come early because they had to go to work. So we had to get up at 6 a.m. in the morning on Sundays

be at church by like 6.30 and she would make breakfast for the couple members that was there. Church service didn't start to like 9 o'clock. That was Sunday school. So it was about an hour or a little less than that

or the morning service. I would literally be there, me and my little sister, my grandmother and the pastor. I would be there the whole time, and so I would play on the piano, I would practice, and I would play on drums. I would practice. And so I learned how I play drums

because I had really nothing else to do, but practice. So I was in church all the time. So the drums were sitting there, and they always encouraged you to, yeah, get better try get better uh so i did and i learned how to do a drum roll when i was in arkansas i was like 12 my uncle came down visiting and he hit a drum roll and he showed me how to do it and i said oh damn i get it i get oh snap that was like my thing and then i just took

off oh okay i'm a drummer now not knowing the rest but yeah i mean that's how you know i i you know I use the church's equipment to learn how to play an instrument. When it came to making beats, my uncle, Eddie White, does this keyboard at Radio Shack. It was an optimist something, I forgot. It was an optimist keyboard at Radio Shack. And you see how long Radio Shack is gone. Damn, that feels like blockbuster.

I mean, there's not a musician who is our age who didn't spend more time in RadioShap because that's where you go to get all the cables where they're a little, you know, they're more affordable than Guitar Center. They're more. You go to Radio Shack and you're just trying to get adapters. It's just adapters. Radio, man, I love Radio Shack, man. like that was like my thing

man like adapters cables tape you know to you know to do your overdone like it was just that great story man it was a great story man I was sad when it went when it left

but um that was this keyboard and I said damn these sounds sound like the ones that many fresh views it sounded like it was on the radio right now so I told my uncle I said yo there's a keyboard

it's like we're at 2000 maybe 2001 I don't know I said there's a keyboard at Radio Shack and it's crazy you can make beats on there and he was trying to make beats back in the day as well you know but not as serious as me though like but he was like oh yeah I was like yes you go check it out

so one day he at the school he was like yo come over to my crib because he stayed down street from my grandmother's house I kid you now, I stopped by there and that keyboard was just sitting there on the table and it was just sitting there with the speed I said, yo, you buck, dang! He's like, you got to keep it right here.

But, I promise you this how he sounds so this day. But you can practice, keep it right here and you can make beats all you want to. I like, um, I pre, listen, man, look, This is, we're going to be rich. Yo, I'm going to be signed at the age of 16, 15. Well, I'm going to be rich. So I was spending all my money up and my job.

I worked at Taco Bell's Press. I wouldn't even care. I'm like, shoot, I'm going to be rich in about a year or two. I'm making bees. I don't even care. I got five hours left. It's all right. I'm going to be rich in high school.

You know what I mean? And I figured out that wasn't it. But that was my first, my uncle at the time, He'll let me at the football practice or after like ROTC or whatever. When he worked so much, he was like, just go ahead and take the keyboard to your house for, you know, a few days or a week or so. Just practice on it and make beats.

You know what I mean? And, you know, we all had stereos back then. So I would put my, I plug it up to the stereo, put my tape in. That's how I recorded my beats on there. You know what I mean? But funny story, though. Funny story.

A week before my own got the keyboard, there are these seniors in high school and they was rapping and they was like man we need some beats I was like well I make beats bro I've never made a beat in my life

bro I promise you I didn't know how it was done I didn't know how you what I did yo bro I literally I said I make some beats

it's like all right yeah let's let's hear it be tomorrow I said I got you I literally took a book and I did this and I started beeboxing and I recorded that

on tape and that's my first beat and we had the cafeteria and they're going to play it and they heard was a bee box and me hit on the table they said ah man it's ain't no beat

you don't make beats it's kind of like Timbal I mean, the guy was doing the same thing. Like, there were people, you know, danger. Like, people were doing it. Yeah, but my thing was, it was just a pure audio of me beatboxing and hitting on a book. Yeah.

It was the, but I can't believe I did that to this day. Like, I really beatboxed and hit on a book and said, hey, here'll be a beat for you, right there. But honestly, if I got that keyboard with my uncle, he got that for me. Then fast forward. You know, I say this. You can't make it anywhere without help. Because I don't want to put out, you know, the nerve that, you know, Jay White just did it by itself and blah.

I definitely did. I definitely had people who believed in what I was doing, you know. And they've seen something in me sometimes more than I seen my. myself. But, you know, so things get kind of rough. My grandmother passes when I was 18. She, you know, she dies. Oh, I'm freak. Just, just like crazy, bro. Like, I'm on the couch and my girl was going in for a routine, like, check up. The doctor said, yo, you have a triple bypass heart surgery. The surgery goes well. my mom comes down

and whatnot. It speaks to her. I'm at work. I work all the time at Taco Bell Express. And, you know, I'm just waiting on my grandmother to get back to the house.

Like, I'll see her when she gets back. The surgery went well. My cousin comes up and says, Anthony, have anybody called you? I said, nah, man, it ain't going well for you. It ain't going well for Aunt Johnny B,

which is my grandma, her auntie. I was like, what you mean? What's wrong? I don't know. It ain't looking well. come to find out they didn't put the two

far enough down her throat so she can get back back. Brain dead, gone. You know what I mean? So that was a whole like my grandmother raised me.

Like she was like my protector. She didn't let nobody misuse us. You know what I mean? She stood up to everybody. She's five foot two wide and had baseball bet in a 45. I mean, like, that was my grandma, you know.

But, you know, things took a turn after she passed. Anyway, I went to Michigan. I actually moved to Michigan at 17 for like six, seven months, and went to high school there for a little minute. Why Michigan? That's where my brothers and my grandparents were at on my dad's side. So I just wanted something new Because I didn't know

I don't know I was I think I was almost preparing myself To be without my grandmother You know what I mean So You know I left And you know

Me and my siblings You know Didn't have the best Relationship You know That was fucking Torture in its own That was like worse

And that was almost like Bliveville again because they from Bliveville too, and they had that same type of energy at the time. You know, they had that same as just talk about you type of energy better than like it was just, it was so weird. It was just the weirdest thing. So how does somebody in, you know, you're in Michigan, you're surrounded by this

negativity and you're you know the seems like the one of two people are really positive in your story with your grandma and you know Eddie your uncle

and stuff you know it seems like you're not close to those people in proximity you know and here you are trying to make some beats and trying to figure out what you're going to do for a living yeah It isn't that long from then to when you end up in New York

No You know Something switch where you're like I'm out You go to New York And you go and like you were saying you were in Queens And you were staying on You know you're willing to make beats to stay somewhere Yeah

What's the process from Starting to make beats In Queens you've got, you know, you have a little bit of like, like you were saying, a false narrative going, but you're also are, you're just changing, you know? What is the thing? Sorry, sorry, my phone had wrong.

Sorry, my son's mother. No, it's fine. Is there something changes once you get to New York and, you know, I don't know if it's the false narrative, it's, you know, what it is. But what was it that changed your trajectory from negativity, a tough childhood, living at somebody's place making beats.

So many people are making beats. What was it that you were doing? What was different? Honestly, I wasn't afraid. I wasn't afraid to travel and learn. I always kept my ear to the radio. so if it sound like it was

supposed to be on radio I wouldn't make it a lot of times I would re-engineer beats or I would redo tracks inside and out to see if I could do it to and I knew if I could do it

I'm close I'm somewhere near where I need to be so I would redo little John stuff I would redo Scott Storch's stuff 3 season mafia stuff you know, at the time, jazzy phase or

Dr. Drais, whoever was the hottest, I would try to remake their beats. You know, my friend had bought a Yamaha motif by name of staff. And, you know, he let me have it, really, at the time. So I was able, you know,

I think that's when a lot of things changed for me, but, honestly things didn't really bro honestly bro things really changed from me until it's such a long story but this needs to be like a three part

three part interview bro like things really changed for me bro like click for me until like 2015 to be honest 2015 is a really big year for you for so many reasons which we can get into in a minute but from 2005 you go to New York you spend that time making beats

And then you go back to Kansas, you work as a janitor, you work as a DJ. You know, people in Kansas who are working as janitors and DJs, a lot of them say that they make beats on their own time. A lot of them say they make music. But that's a whole decade of getting by in Kansas City. You know, what keeps you positive in making music still, even during all that? you know, what's your, what, in a few sentences, what are 10 years of living in cancer?

Oh, man, a few senses. Man, bro, I can be less than that, man. Really, faith. Faith, man. Faith. Belief in yourself. I always, like I said, bro. What can be positive is I always knew that my outcome

wasn't what people may have think it should be as in a stat. You know what I mean? As in the kid who didn't have parents, drugs, grandparents, I should be in jail or doing the same thing or doing some nothing shit. I always felt like I was going to be one of those ones, you know?

So I just kept at it, you know, and I was, you know, just relentless with it. I lost a lot of friends on the way. You know, the journey was extremely tough. But honestly, that's what kept me positive, you know, most of the time. I'm not going to lie, I was discouraged a lot of different times, too. Sometimes I would wake up and be like, what the hell am I doing? Will I ever make it?

But a lot of other times, I'm like, I know what I'm doing. And this has to work because, Ross, if me and you together right now, riding in a car and you're in the tire. goes on flat, bro, I can't help you change the tire. I don't know how. I literally put everything into what I do. So I just felt like, you know, this had to work. In 2015, you know, I feel like it's important that we talk about that really ends, you know, your mother's murdered. Yeah. 2015. Your childhood is so based around her

and I know that you know how did you how I don't even know what the words are to describe what that must do for somebody but like you said really early on that you told her not to go back to Arkansas I don't know any real details you don't have to go into it.

Okay. How does that change who you are as a person? How does that change who you are as a musician? How does that change who you are as, you know, as a human on this planet? Man, you know, after that situation happened with my mother, there's a blur. I don't remember too much of 2015. You know, it's really blurry.

I can remember spots, but I don't remember everything because it was so much in 2015. It was just a year of bullshit, you know. I started to weigh out my goods and my bads in a different way, as in a different way. As in, I looked at what I could really handle. And if I can handle my mother's death, and my grandmother's gone already. Now my mom is gone. You know, she was such a sweet person, you know. I looked at that, man, as that was my scale of pretty much if I can make it through this,

I can make it through anything, you know. So I start to look at things a lot lighter because my mom is gone. And nobody knows what that pain feels like unless you lost a parent. And I lost my parents, you know what I mean? So I just, I don't know, man. I don't know. It's still tough, you know. I don't know, man.

I literally just said, if I can handle this, nothing can stop me. And I still, to this day, still think like that. Like the pain of losing her. Take your time, man. No, I ain't trying to cry like that. I'm good. it's just, it's tough.

You know, because, like, you know, my mom told me, she was just like, you know, she told me a lot of things, man, before she passed. Not, you know, like, I had a little money, a tad bit. And when she's with me in Dallas, you know, I took it, I was like, let's go to a hotel. Let's stay there. She was like, she's like, Anthony, you know what? I said, what's up, ma'am? She said, you know, I never stayed in a hotel before.

I'm like, what? She's like, I've never stayed like in a nice hotel. I stayed in motels, but I've never stayed in a hotel like this before. I said, the Hilton? Wow, okay, mom, well, guess what you have now? You got your own room. And then, like, I bought her, like, new shoes and stuff. She's like, hang, like, Anthony, you know, I've never had, like, just new shoes of my own.

It'd be either be from prison or hand-me-downs or something from, you know, whatever. I said, wow. wow, you know, and, you know, I don't know, man. It literally clicked for me after she passed. 2016, like I said, the whole suicide thing was, you know, tough, you know, as in me wanting to commit suicide, you know, because now, you know, I got two kids. music, it's the hardest thing to do on earth is to try to be a musician,

especially at the highest level, because everybody's not going to make it, and that's just the realness about it. It's a select few of people that actually reach the very top and the number one status and having the number one record in the country and the number one record in a lot of different countries,

that's pretty hard to do, especially with an unknown guy like myself. My mom, she just, I just really use her as fuel, man. And she's still my fuel. She's like my jet fuel. Like, I'm still going because of her. So everything is my mom. Everything.

I mean, what's undoubtedly the greatest turnaround in the, the history of this podcast, which we've done 130 episodes. Amazing. All kinds of legends. I don't know of anybody who goes from a year like that to what your next three years turn out to be.

Yeah, man. It's so, you know, faith or patience, karma. I don't know. what you call it, but I don't

understand. I don't understand how you can have a year like that. You meet Cardi B in 2016. Yeah. I don't know how that happens. She's not Cardi yet, you know?

Yeah, she ain't Cardi and I ain't Jay White. It's so crazy, man. Yeah. I mean, this is that thing you try to explain to people why it's important to work with artists who maybe aren't at the very, very top yet. Because you could be the one that defines their career. Exactly. And some people, it's by accident. Some people it's not, you know? In this case, the Fancy Meet Cardi in 2016 and then Bodak Yellow comes out in 2017. It was number one on Billboard for

are three consecutive weeks. Yeah. I mean, it's hard to fathom how crazy that is and how unusual that is. But from your words, that's the biggest turnaround

of anybody I've ever met in the music industry to go from that 2015-2016 to the biggest song in the world How did you deal with that? Man, honestly, from that jump, bro, 2016, just going to that, I talked to one of my good friends, Will Blackman, you know, he was in the NFL time.

He told me write down some lofty goals. The most loftiest goals you can think of. And I said, okay, cool, I will. I'm working with Cardi now. By now I am. I write down, I want to get a number one record in the world. That's the first thing

I wrote down. I said, I want to go number one by next year. 2017, I go number one there. Yeah, what's a question again? I'm sorry. You're sort of all answering it because I can imagine it being I was just, how do you react to having the number one? Oh, yeah,

man, so, okay, yeah, thank you. I'm reacting, okay, so when I went number, when we went number eight, I was already like hype because people just like the song, you know, but going number eight, like I couldn't, I was just shaking. Like, I was broke as hell, but I was shaking. Like, I can't believe this shit. Like, Bodak Yellow is number eight on a Hot 100. That's number one to me. You know what I mean? like being number 50

is number one to me like yo I'm competing there's only seven songs better than mine wow damn so I'm just like it's like an out of body experience

it's like I can't believe it's really I can believe it but wow it's finally it's it's like about damn time feeling I wasn't shocked really. I was

yeah I don't want to lie to say I was shocked it was more it was more like a finally yeah exactly I don't I don't it takes so long at this point you've been releasing songs for a while

but you've gone through it much up and down I don't think that people when people expect there to be a giant party whenever you have certain kind of success is that everyone else like waiting for you on the streets to give you like a ticker tape parade

But in reality, it's you just be calming down and being like, ah, I thought I had it. And I had just proven myself. It's like a relaxing then moment. Yes. Like I literally said, damn, I'm not broke no more. That's what I said. I said, oh, my God, all this gambling with my life and playing with my, just, just, just really just, I was like, you know, me jumping off the ledge, I actually, I'm actually flying because

Cardi B was my last stop, man. Literally. That was it for me. Like, I was to the point, no. But I knew that. And at the time, Shaft knew that, who used to manage us. Like, I was like, man,

I'm just trying to get in, get a little pub deal, some real estate, some properties, and get the hell on up out of here, man. I'm just trying to get a little money and gone about my way, man. And the butt, it just clicked that.

Like, damn, man, this girl, she's really a star. And what put the fire in for me was people started to doubt her more that I was working with her. I would tell the people that I knew I'm working with her. And they just doubt it. They'll laugh at it.

So I took it like they're talking about me. So that means that you don't believe in what I'm doing. either. So you think I'm whack. You think that I'm not, no, I'm not saying, bro, you work on something else that makes sense. This does make

sense to me. What do you mean? She's a star. Like, I'm, I've literally cut off people to this day. I don't talk to it because of they were talking about Cardi. And so I feel like they were talking about me. You know, so I was

all in on Cardi B. Like, literally, all my eggs in the Cardi B basket. I don't care if they all cracked. It's either it's going to work or it's not going to work. And I'm okay if it never does. And yeah, I mean, I want to think good things happen to good people,

but I think good things happen to optimists. Yeah. And the fact that you have the childhood you have and then you still manage to have faith or optimism or whatever it is to keep going and then to have that and to follow it up

I mean you have I like it which is such a big record. Yeah man. And then you said I mean you won a Grammy like you win Grammys you get nominated for Grammys like yeah man

yeah man and like we can go through individual songs but like there's there's a lot of you're constantly making music you've got a lot of songs. You know, it was already impressive

before you even had any songs come out. You know, to this day right now, I'm still like, cool. Like, even winning a Grammy, you know, last year, you know, for 21 Savage and Jay Cole, that's good. It's great. But, you know,

I got some of me chills. on my shoulder, you know, about there's a lot of producers that got in this game, and I see like, oh my God, look at this new guy. Oh, he got a new song on this big

artists. Okay, yeah, but this art's already big, so it's like a shoot. Yeah, that's easy. I literally had to come in from the damn basement. And it wasn't even the music industry basement.

It was like somebody else's basing it. You know what I mean? And we had to literally make our own noise to get people to really, you know, listen. So I'm still in that, you know, phase of my career. I still feel like that. Even when Savage went number one, I was crying because I was pissed the hell off. Wait, what? Why would you?

I was pissed off in a good way and bad way. I was pissed off because I was like, stop sleeping on me. Stop sleeping on me. Do you think people are sleeping on you now? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Definitely. Definitely. Definitely. Definitely. That's nuts, man. Look, I, I, look, I, I, I'll be lying to you and saying, I, I will lie to you and say that I don't see everything, right? I see, I see, I see when certain blogs write about the producers.

they don't mention my name or top guys in the game who are music producers and my name's not mentioned you know or certain execs or certain artists don't know the value I have with the actual artists and sometimes they forget what I've done. And I'm like, no, I am a producer. I create records. I don't make beats. I'm a creative. I make the records.

If I could tell you the real stories behind all these records, you'll be like, damn. You know what I mean? So it's like... What would you say to artists that we're listening and that have never worked with you and want to know what, what it's like. I mean,

what would you tell someone about who, who do you think you, who do you think you are? Who do you think, right? You know? I'm a, I feel like I am, I feel like Bill Belichick or like Kill Jackson.

Maybe that's a high reach, I don't know. But, I feel like. You have three number ones. You're like, you're six, behind one of them and about three behind the other. So you're on your way.

Hey, man, you have more number ones than the Kansas City Chiefs have Super Bowls in your lifetime. So there you go. Well, hopefully we'll have three. There you go. There you go. In a few weeks, man. Come on now, baby.

We're going to be tired up. No, but I would say this to anybody. It's not just about, you know, me sending you a beat. It's definitely about me being involved inside the record as in the experience of the energy. And a lot of times that might

not be me writing a word or doing anything as far as that goes. But the records that I have been a part of, I'll tell you this, Ross. I've been very much a part of it as in behind the scene.

to help make these records get to where they got to get to. You know what I mean? I believe in my records 160 million percent and I don't let them die especially if I believe in one. I don't let them

go to waste. They find a home, but creating that record, I'm so much more than just a person that's going to send you a pack of beats. I hate that with a passion. Don't ask me to send you a pack of beats. the beach. I don't have a pack. I don't know.

But one thing I do have is a song. You know, and I know with COVID is you know, like what we're doing. We can zoom it up. But you definitely need that energy. And I feel like that's my value. My value is

my presence on the record. You know, and we can go for days and days on about each record and why, you know, I should be involved more, you know. And I just feel like

I just feel like I got to keep proving myself, which we all do at the end of the day. This industry is a way have you done, you know, lately type of thing, which is, you know, fine. I just know that I'm like, damn, what more do I got to do for people to really, you know, look at me. And I look at myself, I would say, well, damn, Jay,

you only got to do. number one, Quincy Jones got so much more. So actually shut the hell up and get to work. So I tell myself that, and I keep going. Yeah, you're clearly very competitive with yourself. I mean, but when you get Beyonce

on featuring on records, there has to be some acknowledgement of having, you know. Yeah, I guess so. I mean, my phone didn't ring like that, you know,

I mean, my phone was ringing when Savage came out and Beyonce was on there. I'm so grateful of it, but my phone wasn't, oh my God, like, Jay White, Jay White, you know. It hasn't been that. Maybe this interview helps that. In this next segment, what would Lucas Keller ask

Jay White and the writer is? He asks he says Tell me more about your brand More hits on the way So he wanted me to ask you about that More hit the That's what

Luke That's what Big Lou Man More hits on a way man That's really self-explanatory You know what I mean More hits on the way

I feel like we got power In the things that we say You know So more hits on the way I started saying that after I like it came out. I was like, well, damn, more hits on the way, you know. And I have honestly had more hits that's been on the way. And I still have more hits on the way.

So I wanted to focus on that to really solidify myself as a, you know, a music producer and make that, like, my label. And now what I've been doing, I've been collecting talent all over to create the actual more hits and away brand. and to put out the ideas and the emotions and the energy that I want to put out. Great. Last thing we can do five for five. I'm going to list five things.

Just tell me what comes off the top of your head. We're going to start with Cardi B. Let's go with your two kids. Trent. Let's go with Anthony. The C. Let's go with your mother. To start.

Let's go with your grandma. She is the glue. Well, thank you for doing this podcast, my friend. You know, part of the point of this conversation in general was always to have conversations about what it's like to be a songwriter. in this era and there are so many things I think people can pull away from this conversation

but I think we can both agree that the last thing that anyone can do is sleep on you hey that's okay I got coffee I'll pass it out you know going from from the start there are a lot of reasons why

people could have bet against you and they all would have been wrong. And I hope that, you know, I hope that you find some solace and the success that you've had so far. I love the fact that you feel like it's important at this point in your life to be forthcoming about things that you weren't at one point. And part of it should be to confidence in what you've really done, which is is truly remarkable. Like you said, if you have a number eight record, that's a world,

that's like a lifetime achievement, that kind of thing. That's making, you know, there are people who made the all-star team once. And that's on their, that's on their Wikipedia and you look at it and you think, wow, man,

that person made the all-star team once. Or, like, people have, like, greatest catch in Super Bowl history and no one knows, you know, that person had one catch in Super Bowl in their entire career.

It's like you made it, you know, at a number eight. All the other things are like are just amazing gravy on it and are just proof. But man, it is like, it is really inspiring to meet other people in the business. Yeah, man. Who figure out how to survive in music. But, I mean, I'll stop after this because I know I'm talking. lot. But, you know, a lot of times people ask how to make it out here.

And, you know, in an era where I think talking about people's privilege is important, there are a lot of people in the business who claim that they were what all the work they've done and not to belittle the work they've done, but they were given a work up. Their parents helped them out when they were struggling. Their parents helped them get into school. their parents help them do stuff. And I'm not belittling that. I think that that takes a lot still to make it.

But to get under the, you know, in the history that your childhood and what you've gone through, I think there's very little excuse for other people to not put in everything they have if they really want to be successful. So, you know, I'm just, I love your story, man. I appreciate it, man. And, you know, the fact that that your music isn't just rap, isn't just hip hop, it's pop, it's worldwide. It's, you know, you've influenced way more people than you give yourself credit for.

And it's just awesome, man. Congrats. Ross, man. I appreciate this interview, man. Thank you for taking, you know, time out and asking the, you know, the right questions, great questions. because I really feel like it's bigger than music. It's about the struggle.

I watch interviews or people. I try to figure out what did they do when they wanted to give up. What made them keep going? That's what I want to hear. Not what dog they use, but honestly, how did they face adversity? You know what I mean? And I feel like you know it?

And I appreciate everything and your time. And man, if you understand, do part two. I got like, hours more this. We'll do a session together and we'll make a song together and there you go. Let's do it, man. Well, until the end, man,

say that for real, man. Let's just we get done. Perfect. There you go. Thanks for listening to this episode of And The Writer is. If you want to hear music from this songwriter I just interviewed, be sure to check out our Spotify playlist or visit our website at an an the writer is.com. If you like what we're doing, please subscribe to us.

You can also like us on Facebook and Twitter. And The Writer Is is produced by Joe London and published by Big Deal music. A special thanks to David Silberstein from Mega House Music and Michael White. Until next time, this is Ross Golden.