And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan - Ep. 147: Michael Bublé

Episode Date: November 29, 2021

Today’s multi-platinum entertainer, songwriter, producer and humanitarian guest was a man on a mission when he signed his record deal with Reprise Records almost two decades ago. The Canadian artist has earned 4 Grammys, scores of Junos, critical acclaim and sold well over 60 million records. As a songwriter, some of his No. 1 smash hits include the now iconic “Home”, “Haven’t Met You Yet” and “Everything”. His 6 global tours have sold out in over 40 countries. Today’s guest has accomplished the unthinkable: a pop artist who is equally at home in the worlds of great standards, jazz, r&b, beautiful ballads, and can also swing like his musical heroes like Louis Prima and make it all work harmoniously. His 2011 holiday album, Christmas, went straight to No. 1, his third chart topper and the second biggest selling album of that year. It has continued its reign every year during the holidays and has to date sold well over 16 million copies around the world and has been streamed over 4 billion times – ten years following its initial release. He is a proud husband and a father to three beautiful children. Our guest is also deeply committed to supporting many charities including Children’s Hospital Los Angeles (CHLA) and BC Children’s Hospital (BCCH). The anticipation is rising as this artist is set to release his ninth studio album in early 2022. And The Writer Is… Michael Bublé!Artwork: Michael Richey White Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey guys, welcome to Ann the writer is. I'm your host, Ross Golan. I've written with hundreds of artists and writers over the years, and my favorite part of each session is the first hour when we catch up about life, the industry, politics, composition, whatever. So this is a journey of learning why people write songs, how people write songs, and most importantly, who the people are who write the songs.

I'm producing this with the Great Joe London, big deal music publishing, and Mega House Music Management. If you want to listen to the songs we discuss in this podcast, follow us on our socials, find out about special live events, or buy that merch, aka that hat I always wear. Go to our website www. And The Writer is.com. Welcome to And The Update is.

I am your host, Paige MacDonald, and this is your weekly music industry update. Republic Records has appointed Wendy Goldstein and Jim Ropo as co-presidents. ASM Global is expanding their footprint in the Asia-Pacific region with the announcement of their new regional headquarters in Singapore. The AI-powered music platform Amy has raised $20 million in the Series B funding round. In September, the pop legends Abba announced the return after 40 years with a brand-new studio album called Voyage, which sold in excess of 1 million combined units globally in its first week. Amazon Music and the featured artist coalition have announced the launch of the FAC Step Up Fund.

The FAC Step Up Fund will provide financial support and a broader package of benefits for projects of up to 10 up-and-coming artists. CM.com has launched a UK ticketing platform headed by Paul Everett. Dulaipa has announced her new project called Service 95. Service 95 is, quote, a gloat. global style, culture and society concierge service that offers a curation of list, recommendations, stories, information, thoughts, perspectives, and conversations. AWOL has launched an audience development team headed by Aaron Bugaki. Video Games publisher 2K has partnered with SoundCloud to give emerging artists the chance to have

their original songs added to the soundtrack for the popular basketball game NBA 2K22. Adele's 30 has had the biggest opening. week for any album in the UK this year. The estate of South African musician Johnny Clegg has inked a global publishing deal with sheer publishing. The LA-based NFT firm known as Unblocked has launched its first digital collectibles in partnership with primary wave music and hip-hop group Cypress Hill. A big thank you to Haley Evans of Megahouse for gathering today's news. Now stay tuned for this week's episode of Anne The Writer is. Welcome to Anne the Writer is. I am your host, Ross Golan, today's Canuck is the kind of music legend that owns a hockey team. He has so many

awards that they even use his Grammys as hockey bucks. In truth, he traded in his failed professional hockey career for selling over 60 million albums. He literally does residency at arenas because why not? He can. He sells them out. He's so classic that his version of classics are now classic versions. But he's also written hits, like the kind of hits that other people cover and make hits. He is more important to

Christmas than elves. All the way from British Columbia, this man dedicates as much time to charity as he does to his incomparable career, because he's genuinely one of the best people I know. And the writer is my friend Michael Boubley.

Hey man, that's really nice. Thank you. I feel the same way about you, man. That might be the, that might be the most accurate, um, interim ever. Yeah. I like it, too. I like that it's natural. It's, you know, it's funny when you, when they, you know, when you sit,

because you've had to do it, you sit during your own intros, and they go through all of this weird, like this stuff, like the, like the, you know what I mean? The Wikipedia. And then you just sit there cringing and going like, oh, God. That was much better. Yeah. I miss you, man. I miss you too, man. How's life up north?

Good, good. It's weird. Just, you know, like you guys are ahead of us now in America, because here in Canada, we're, it's like, I remember talking to you a few months, like five or six months ago and I was like, oh, man, I'm so sorry. It's, it's really rough there. And here, you know, it's great, man. Here, it's, we're out, you know, we're hanging and doing everything's pretty normal. And now it's like the opposite. Now it's like we are locked down and there's not enough vaccine. Anyway, So it's weird. I'm making a record. And, but in the most different way I've ever made a record.

I'm basically in my underwear in my kitchen. And it's the most different process. I'm working with Greg Wells, by the way, who was so excited about me talking to you. And he was like, oh, say hi to Ross. What a great guy. Everybody wants me to say hi to you, by the way. I've got like a list of so many people that love you, man. So it's been weird, man.

But it's, you know what? It's, it's been nice to be able to be creative, even though I'm not able to sit there with guys. It's never the same, man, on Zoom, but it's still fun to write. Are you writing well over Zoom? No. No, it's not, it's just not the same, man. It isn't the same as getting to sit in the room. And it's such a different process, as you know.

And a lot of the stuff is now so back and forth, it's like you have an idea and then you send the idea and then the guy sends back. his ideas and it's like that telephone game you know what i mean where i feel like it takes having a lot more trust in your co-writers because you sort of have to allow them to kind of go places with it and then you get it back and you try to massage it but it's definitely not the same as sitting in the room yeah well let's start i mean what's it like for you because i know you're writing all the time and i mean now you're getting in rooms but what was it like when you were like locked No, I'm not doing in rooms. And to be honest, actually, like, I really like it.

I love it. Really? Yeah, I mean, I've got all these instruments and piano and stuff. Like, I feel like if I went into, you know, when we go back up to write, you know, I feel like I would want to bring my whole system. Because you start to learn how to, you kind of produce while you go as you, you, you know, You know, there's no such thing as like a top liner right now. Yeah.

You know, it's like you have to kind of do a little bit of everything, I feel like. And so it's, you know, production chops get. Dude, I think, like, I talked to you. I talked to you when I first met you. And we started, like, pitching songs to each other and things that we'd done. I felt like you as a songwriter had such a great advantage because of your producer chops. And more than that, because of your voice. because I felt like you could take good songs

and the way that you would sing them, it would be great. I actually talked to Kara to Gordi about it once, and I asked her, I was like, so how do you know, what do you feel is like your, one of your real fangs that you're, and she was like, oh, I think I can sing, I sing a lot of these demos, and sometimes I can turn an average demo into something amazing.

And it's stuck with me. And then ever since then I've met people that, like you, who have really been great singers. and with the ability to do that and to play, you know, to have production over it, you can really sort of expound upon your concept, your idea, and really make it far more palatable and sexy for whoever's listening. I'm actually working now with Michael Pollock, who's a great, great, I mean, what a super talented guy.

And it's the same thing, man. He'll send me something that he's done, and he's got a great voice. It's like he, sometimes it's hard for, you know what I mean, for me to really get a grip on, is this that, is it that great or is it that he's singing it that great? It's really interesting when you and I've talked about vowel sounds and you're somebody who gets phrasing and phrasing is a huge part of the way you sing. It's not, I tend to sing like a metronome. You know, I like things really tight. and almost like I'm sheet music. And then you take the, you know, versus somebody who takes the sheet music and does, you know, something, you know, who expounds on the, the writing of it.

And, you know, it's like you kind of, your range kind of reminds me of like what Billy Holiday was famous for doing. You know, it's not like you're, you're not singing five octaves. You're singing, you have a way of, of, of, making every note count. Well, tell the listeners what you mean when you talk about sing on the vowels, so they kind of get what you're talking about. Okay, so like, we were talking about how I'll write, and we're writing a song right now.

Yeah, and if you do the word like e and you hold it out, you have to like, you literally have to clench your jaw. And like if you're listening to this and you sing the word like e, it's hard to do versus like, oh or ah you know the softer sounds of and all these things that allow you to sing longer and

louder and more tone versus you know so yeah when we get when we get to the like when we're writing and we get to those and you and I are saying writing this song that we're working on right now or one of the songs we're working on it's fine when we're in say in the verse and it's small and the dynamics are low but when I get to that

that point where we want to blast and get to that, say, the chorus when we open up and we want it to soar, it's so much easier to sing, let's just say, my way, right? That's my, it's, if it was an E or, you know what I mean, it would, Frank wouldn't sound the same. I mean, obviously my we is, but I mean, there's a big difference between the, the I and my way, as opposed to, where you have to lock it up and shut it down. And sometimes as a singer, it's tough when the vowel change happens because it doesn't allow you to blast the note because your mouth is closed and you're kind of compressing. But it's weird. Some of the vowel sounds and weird, you know, what makes like Alanis Morissette songs hits or the rhyme schemes cool is that the vowel sounds are all messed up.

and the emphasis is always on the wrong syllable. And so it's one of those things where you're singing, sometimes singing the wrong vowel starts to make, gives the song a signature. Sure. Because it's so, it's so weird. I mean, yeah, every song is its own beast, right? I mean, when you and I and Johan were working on today's yesterday's, tomorrow,

I mean, one of my favorite, it's funny, you were talking about how you like to have things in the pocket. And I was talking to Greg Wells about it yesterday because we had brought that song up. And my favorite part of the song was the phrasing, was how tight. Do you know what I mean? It's simple, simple melody, like this beautiful descending line, but that maybe my patience and my motivation to play on separate. And it was like so punchy. It was hard to sing. It was like hard to get it out that fast.

But when it sat in the pocket correctly, It felt so good at like pop so hard when it locked in. Is your memory really good with songs? Can you sing songs at any of your catalog? If I, you know, can I just pick out any song from any one of your albums and can you sing it? Dude, what's weird is forget about that because I think that's pretty easy. You can probably pick any Great American songbook standard. I mean, I would probably get 9 out of 10 and I would probably know all the words.

which is weird because I can't remember. Like, my wife makes fun of me because, like, we'll call, like, insurance company. And they'll be like, you know, now call the number of 778, 524, 5264. And I look at my wife and she sees the fear in my eyes because she knows I'll never remember the first three digits. Like, I can't. Like, it's just gone. Yet somehow when I hear music, I hear it playing back to me in my head. This is going to sound really funny.

But I hear not only like the song, but I hear. the artist, I mean, like a carbon copy of it playing over and over. And if I like it, it will haunt me. Like, I'm sure you have that same thing. Like, it'll haunt me where like I'll go to bed and I'll, I can't, it doesn't stop. And it'll just go around and around. And then somehow the words will sit there. Yet, you're talking to a man who sings with three teleprompters on stage because my fear is always like completely blanking. But because I have the teleprompters, I never forget. Because I know it's there in case I have to look. But if it wasn't there, I would just poop my pants and I would be done. What is that?

First of all, when you said that, oh, I'm sure you also do that, to be honest, no, I can't remember any words of any songs. Really? Nothing. Nothing. I cannot remember words to any songs. Unless I have like massive muscle memory. My grandpa used to sit and play me all these old. records and he would just be fascinated.

You know, he'd, like, call it a song. It's funny, he passed away now a couple of years ago, and he is my best friend. And I used to wake up every morning in Vancouver and drive down to the McDonald's. And me and him and his buddies, the McDonald's gang, we would go and have coffee, and we would talk about these great artists and songs and stuff. And one of the games he loved the place, he would like, go, okay, guys, call, just call it any song. And they'd, like, you know, they'd go, hey, you won't know this one, 1920. and they would like, you know,

virile, you know, and they'd do it and I would like, I'd mail it and sing it all, and they'd all be fascinated. So, you know, I know a lot of your past is something people can look up, but you know, I don't know if the McDonald's gang is something that you,

Wikipedia, so let's just go from the, a little bit from the beginning. And we'll do the CliffsNotes version because I know some of it is findable, but tell me about your parents so I grew up in a really

beautiful middle class neighborhood called Burnaby my father was a fisherman a commercial salmon fisherman and his father was a commercial salmon fisherman and his father before my great grandfather had immigrated from Italy all my family had immigrated from either Italy or places in Croatia and

so it was a fish family pretty much and no one in our family had had anything to do with entertainment we had no nothing no connection no so i always love music i always love music and like any other kid i like the music of the day and um but when i turned 12 or 13 maybe 11 my grandfather uh had uh it's interesting i should go back the fisherman side grandfather or the your mom's My mom's dad. And I should say this. I think, and I mean, people will laugh, but my first, I mean, I think the introduction to the style that I really loved was Christmas.

I think it was Bing Crosby. That record was played through the house all the time. And I, I mean, I just thought the musician, I mean, even at that age, I understood they, I didn't understand. I couldn't articulate why. But, I mean, his voice, his time, along with the arrangements, the musicianship, I mean, that stuff swung so hard. And I think it's sort of, without me ever knowing it, it started to make me fall in love with not just music, but that type of music. And as much as I love, and I love the Beastie Boys more than anybody I knew.

And I love Brian Adams. and I love like, you know, there was a million kinds of music, but more and more, when that music would come into my life, I felt there was this bond. I had this special passion and love and understanding. And so when I was about 13, my grandfather was at his house, and we used to sit at the house and sit cross-legged on the floor. I was a rec room.

And at that time, he had this big kind of double, triple deck, old record player that someone had helped. connect to a to a cassette player that he could record his records onto the cassette. And this was like for him, like this was awesome. So, and I remember he played a song called It Had to Be You by this cat named Vic Dana. And I remember hearing the song and thinking, wow, this is, this is really a great song, you know, and this is, man, this moves me. And I remember learning it and learning the words to it. And then later that year, I said to him, grandpa,

I love this stuff. And so he would start putting all of the songs from Frank and Dean, a lot of Dean Martin, the Alephus Gerald, Sarah Vaughan, Mills Brothers, the Ink Spots, Louis Armstrong, Prima, Keeley Smith. And he would start to put them all on these cassettes. And he would make me full on, you know, 50 minute, whatever they are on each side.

And I would listen to them and I would just listen to them every night. And I would sing along and I'd learn and I just love them. Like my favorite was Dean. And then I love them. young Frank. And I think I was about 13 or something, and I said to him, you know, Grandpa, I really want to sing this. Like, I think I can sing this.

And my voice was changing a little bit. And, you know, I still had a pretty high voice. And so he went on a cruise with my grandma to Los Angeles. A lot of people don't know this, but this is kind of how it all kind of started. He went on a cruise, on a cruise ship. and somehow he had found this early version of karaoke, which was just sort of starting, and they had these kind of karaoke tracks on cassette.

And he came back with all these standards, with like these Nat King Cole and like these hit songs that were karaoke versions. And my uncle Kelly was in a rock band. And he went out and he brought me some old kind of monitor that he had, like a you know he brought me an old mic and he brought me this this kind of speaker and uh my parents set it up in our living room and dude from morning till night i would just sit in my living room and i would sing karaoke to these songs and i would like just over and over again and that's kind of how

the love began how old were you at that point 13 about 13 and so i was working on my dad's fishing boat through that all that time from about 13 till i was gosh 19 20 But starting at about 16, 16, 15, I had done it so much and I had started doing contests and other things. And I was like, this is what I, I think I can do this, you know. And weirdly, like, that's like the scariest thing for a mom and dad to hear. We're doing contests in, you know, how far is it from Vancouver? Why? You grew up.

Where you, like the town you grew up in? No, it's 20 minutes, 15 minutes. It's 20 minutes. So, like, when you're doing these. competitions. Are you doing like competitions in the city? Yeah, man. I would go to like bars and I would, I had a fake ID. But everybody knew you still look young. So I can only imagine like I had a fake idea. I mean the first contest I won. The woman who ended up running the contest ended up calling me. And she said, you know,

you've won the contest, which is the good news. The bad news is you lied about your age and you weren't allowed in the bar. You're not of drinking age. And we cannot, you cannot be the winner of this contest and I was so upset and she said well the good news is she said there's a youth talent contest next year at the P&E and and you know you're old enough to do that and I was so mad man and I was really and I mean dude I used to go and I worked for a company called balloon action um they would pay me 20 bucks sometimes 40 bucks and I would go and they'd hire me to sing like singing telegrams and things like that. So I would, like, I would, I would show up to, like, restaurants and, and they'd surprise some poor lady, you know, some young, you know, 25-year-old girl at the table, and, and I would sing, you know,

happy birthday, and then I'd sing, you know, I don't know, whatever, whatever song they wanted me to sing some, you know, pop song. Did you dress up? Oh, yeah, I mean, terribly in my dad's jacket. There's a bunch of pictures I have, and I'm always in these, like, jackets of my dads that I thought looked really cool. And I'm such a skis. I'm a skinny little dork with this bad, big buffon hairdo. And you can see the jacket is like way too big. When you're in like junior high in high school and you're the guy who's singing these kinds of songs like when everyone else is listening to Beastie Boys, are you the coolest kid in school or are you not the coolest kid in school? You're not the cool.

I mean, I was the funny kid, you know, I was like, you know, it wasn't like terribly rough or terribly grubly. right. I wasn't, you know, there was not a lot of girlfriends. I mean, I wanted a lot of girlfriends and I tried, but, you know, there was, at that age, it was like, you know, I'm going out with Angie for two days. And then it was like, like, I just can't be with you anymore. And, but we never kissed, you know, like, uh, it was pretty serious. Two days is, it's quite a commitment. Yeah. So, no, it was weird, man. And I was insecure about it. Yet I was proud about it. Like, I, there was a sense of pride that, like, every kid, everybody, every human. We want to be different and special and unique.

And that was my way of being unique and different. And I liked that. And my friends would make fun of me. And I had one friend, still one of my best friends. And he is a good singer. His name was Brad Openshaw. So we get on the bus, you know, in grade like 8. So 13, 14 years old, grade 8, 9.

And I remember him like, you know, every, hey, come on, guys. Sing something. Sing something. And Brad would go like, Arupa, Jamaica And then all the girls And then he'd go like, You sing, okay, now Bubla, you sing something, you know

And I'd go like, you know I missed the Saturday dance Heard they crowd at the floor And Brad would go, dude, you got a fake singing voice man Like, what's that fake thing you're putting on your voice? And he'd always make fun of me Because it was like I already knew the style I was doing it and they would just all kind of make fun of me.

He still calls it. He's like, dude, you're still doing that fake singing? Are you guys close? Like, do you guys actually talk a lot still? Dude, I have the same friends that I had since I was five. That's amazing. Basically the same group, man. The same group.

And it's like we hate each other so much, but we love each other so much. It's truly brothers. You know what I mean? Like we are truly when we hang up. I look at them and I go, how can we treat each other so much shittier than we treat everybody else in our lives? Yeah. That's what good friends do. It was funny.

Like I read the intro to Jackie and I was like, am I, am I busting his balls too much? And then I was like, wait a minute. No, I feel like if you're friends with Mike, then you know that that's like, that's your love language. Oh, of course, man. Of course. I have one of my best friends is named Caco and he's in Argentina

and I don't think Caco has ever called me by my name ever. Like what does he call you? Every single time I answer the phone he said, hey, Pursi! And it doesn't matter if my parents are nothing. It's like, and I've gone past the point

of ever saying like, dude, can you just, can you just get on? Because that only makes it worse. So you just have to let... No, no, no. And the huge smile on his face with a self-satisfaction of knowing that he gets to call me that. Yeah. There's a big...

So, you know, you're 16, you're 18, you graduate high school. Yeah. And it's not like... You didn't go from, like, high school to being world famous. You know, you have this... The goal... What's the goal at that point of somebody who sings like you? The goal was, I mean, for me, simple.

I mean, how could it not be world fame? But nobody was doing that. There were no world. That's the dumbest thing to want to do at that point. Like, nobody else is doing that. Thank God I was so stupid, man. Really? I think about it a lot, actually, Ross.

I really do. Because I think about how, I mean, I really do think about how silly. and I mean, and I really believed it, man. I really, like, I really thought, man, this is, this is going to happen for me. And it, and it was easy to live on potential. Like so many artists out there, so many people listening, so many writers, so many musicians. I mean, when you're young, you know, the potential is so great. And you know, you just need that, you know, I just need that one, if that one person could see me and maybe get me to the next person.

And there's a million of those moments. but there aren't a million of those moments in in Canada I feel like there weren't I mean listen for me man this this this story got like every story does I mean so my first ever gig I think one of the first ever was I was about 17 I think and they had let me into a bar and I had a the guy that was playing at the bar was this incredible pianist and his name was was Linton Garner. And he was at the time, he was about 80.

And he was the big brother of Errol Garner. I don't know if you know who that is. I don't. One of the greatest jazz pianists who's ever lived. Oh, okay, okay, okay. His brother, Errol wrote many songs, but one of the big songs is Misty. Oh, wow. Hey, that's a Johann named his daughter after.

That's exactly right, yeah. Yeah, that's great, you know. And so that was like my first ever paid. kind of gig and I thought okay I'm on the road this is it and like people are going to see me and someone's going to see me and and what was interesting for me was there was a young kid across literally across the street and he was a little younger than me and I knew that he would do like these I don't know exactly the time but I know it was very near at the same time and there was this people would always talk about this really funny young kid from Vancouver who would do these

little sets and when Robin Williams was there and you'd hear about it and his name was Seth Rogan and of course he you know it's crazy that what happened to him and uh but for me it was like that and then I started working at the bars and then all of a sudden I started you know the musicians would hire me and my grandfather would would take me to these different people's homes and uh and to these like musicians and he'd say listen and he'd take me to clubs and the club would say, no, we're not interested. And the kid, the kid's not 19. He's not drinking age.

And my grandpa would say, listen, if you let my grandson get up here and do a set with your house band, you let him do two or three songs, I'll come in and I'll fix all your hot water heating. And I can see your, you know what I mean? Your plumbing is busted. And literally, that's what he did. He would trade his services and he would walk me in. And where I would go and do, there'd be like jazz nights at the Ramada in.

And there'd be this, you know, 17, 18 year old kid sitting there me with. all of these, you know, Vancouver jazz singers who had been doing it for 30 years and people like June Katz and Kenny Coleman and you may not know those people, but to me they were super huge in my life. You know, I looked up to them and then I would get my chance to go up and sing, you know, all of me and B flat. And I can tell you that I knew that because it was the only song I knew the key for. You know, like the arrow would say to me, hey, if you go sing it, sing all of me and B flat. So I would do that. And then it sort of shifted to where I got. my first kind of house gigs in the clubs and then and then at 20, 21, I started doing that.

And then instead of the musicians hiring me, I started hiring the musicians and I put together a band. And then I started getting privates and then. Dude, this happened until I was 26. Yeah. I mean, I moved to Toronto. I did stuff across the border. I do clubs up and down through the states. And I did musicals. I did Broadway. I did anything I could do, just anything hoping. that there would be that person or that step. And by the time I got to 25 or 26, it just wasn't happening. And I knew I was already passing the age of maybe getting signed

because I wasn't, you know, I wasn't 21, 24, you know. And so I started to run out of money. And I just, I was in Toronto working and I had run out of money to come home. and basically I got this gig, this corporate gig. And I had a record called Babaloo, an independent record I had made. And I was like, okay, I'll go and do this gig. It paid about $4,000 or $5,000. It got me to fly home.

And I was going to, I actually wanted to go back to Vancouver. And I was going to go to school to take up journalism. I had a lot of friends that were journalists and music journals. And I thought, well, this would be good. You know, I can still, you know, I can be creative, but I can talk to people in this business that I like and I can, in my own way, find maybe a way to make some money and have a good life.

And so I had done this private gig, and at the gig, I had like one of the last copies of the CD, and I gave it to this guy at the gig. And I remember when I handed it to him, I said, like, oh, I hope you like this. And I made a joke where I took it. And I took his drink, and I said, if you don't like it, it makes a good,

coaster for your drink. And I put it on his drink and then the next morning I got a call. The manager I had at the time got a call and it happened to be a guy named Michael McSweeney who was the right-hand man to the Prime Minister of Canada, the previous Prime Minister. And this is a long story, but, you know, like all of these little things. And then I went and I met the Prime Minister's wife, Mila and she was really kind to me. And she said my daughter Caroline is getting married. and we'd love to have you come and sing.

And she said, we'll pay for you to come down. And I was so down at that point. I think I had sort of, in my head, I think I had, I don't want to say given up, but I think I'd realize that this probably just wasn't going to happen for me. Yeah, the expectations just changed at that point. You know, it's funny, I had gone to every record company, man. I had gone to every agency and they, every single one,

including the one that I signed with, had the exact same answer for me. The exact. It was like I, you know, at one point I thought they had like called each other. What was it? They would say, you're a really, really talented kid and you're a really good person, you know? This is going to happen for you.

I just don't see it happening here because we just don't, we just can't see the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, in a commercial way. We wouldn't know how to market this or how we could, you know, make our money back. And so, you know, good luck. And it was like... I mean, before we get to this next phase,

because obviously this gets really juicy after this. But really, the juiciest part for any musician is like this moment right before things click. Because we're always, like, if, man, you always try to. to convince an artist stop following trends because you're just going to be part of the trend. You'll never be Michael Boubley if you follow the trends.

But you'll also never say, like that's the same advice that I wish A&R people took and labels would take. If you don't take a chance on a Michael Boubley, you'll never get a Michael Boubley. You're just going to keep getting the, you know, you're just trying to chase trends and trying to get

the next one. Maybe if you're lucky, you'll get the the second or third wave of a movement and then it's gone. But it's human nature. I mean, it is just human nature to want to categorize and to want to follow what's successful. I mean, as songwriters, I mean, you guys, I mean, the guys like you, Ross, that that is your job.

Like you sit and you write and go to writing rooms. That is the toughest part is not to follow, is not to go, okay, this is what's happening now. Because by the time you write that song, you've already missed, it's over. The trend is done. It's like you have to be so unique so that you're ahead. And that's like, when you talk about people like Max Martin, that just trips me out, man. It's like how do they do that?

You know what I mean? Like how? Here's a question about how do they do that. It's a cousin of this, but I'm always curious. I've mentioned about you and some of your Canadian peers and I don't understand what it is about Canada. But Canada has, I think I talked about this with Paul Inco when we interviewed Paul.

But, you know, you have like the weekend and you have Bieber and you have Drake and you have Celine Dionne. Sean Mendez is doing pretty well. Sean Mendez. You have these, you have these. you have people who are trendsetters it just like annihilate charts

and who are just like they literally create genres what is it about Canada that allows for Canadian musicians to thrive when there's you guys are like a tenth of the population you know there are more people in California than they're in Canada yeah so why is it that Canada creates

what did Paul say Ross when you ask Paul I think it would him that I asked because it, you know, or it was like, uh, who was it? Like, uh, I, I can't remember who I asked the question to, but I thought it was him. There's just so many. Daniel Linwa, or some of some other Canadian legend who's like, how, how does this country that is so small create, not just like, it's not just competition. It's not, it's, it's the same kind of influence that we get from the game. Look at Diana Kroll. There's someone who's elite in her, in her genre.

She's, I mean, she is one of the, the greatest jazz, penis, singers, artists on the planet. Yeah, so I, I think I have a theory, but I don't, I would never tell you that that's the reason. I mean, it's just a theory. Okay. And it's kind of a bit multifaceted, but I'll try to be succinct.

It is partly that we are a nation of observers. We have our own distinct, culture and humor, but a big part of that distinction is being the mouse beside the elephant. We watch a lot of American television and listen to a lot of American music. We're inspired by American cinema, movies, humor, patterns. And I think many of us learn how to cop it or what it is that that works for America? And by the way, most of the time, what works for America works for the rest of the world

because as trendsetting goes, America is usually the trendsetter in music or cinema. You know, we find so many times that that's the case, you know, and it doesn't matter if you're from South Africa or Asian. I'm lucky enough to travel over the world, so I see it. You know what I mean? I see that these things start in America. And by the way, if it's cool enough for America

and it's working in America, then guess what? It's probably great and it's good enough here in Greece or, you know, or Beijing or wherever. And so I think that's one part of the answer. And I think the other part of the answer is simply that it's hard here in Canada. Yeah. Because there is a lot of competition. I know that sounds strange, but even in this small country, there's a lot of fierce competition. And the fact is, if you can find and scrap and scrape your way to the top of the heap,

and you can become recognized or noticed at being one of the best producers or the best writers, you know, by the time that that acknowledgement comes in your own country, this is going to be hard to explain, but I hope I'm explaining this right. my analogies are good enough. But it's like by the time you get to be part of the cream here, and now you get your shot to go to America, you've had to, I mean, honestly, you've had to just show more, do more, prove more, work as hard, or show your work has to be as good as anyone in your whole country.

And so by the time you get to America, it's like you've got your shit to get. together pretty much it's it's i i used to compare it i used to make an analogy when my friends would ask this question and it's very much like if you see athletes you know let's say like a hockey player many times when you watch a hockey player doing his his skating drills they'll put a parachute behind him and you'll watch this skater and he'll just be he'll be going hard and of course the parachute you know what i mean completely stops him and stops his inertia you know and then all of a sudden They unclick the parachute or the weight, and the dude just takes off. And I feel like that's the best analogy I can make as a Canadian musician, entertainer.

It's like you fight your way. Oh, God, please let them just recognize this talent. You work it and you somehow get to a point where your country is going, yeah, this guy's pretty good. This is, eh. And it's like, and then you get to, like, step over the border and somebody gives you a chance to go on the Today Show or to meet Max Martin. or to meet Ross Golden.

All of a sudden the parachute comes off. And it's like, oh shit, now, you know what I mean? Now this feels easy now. I can fly. Well, that's a good transition to this famous dinner. You're at, you know, you're in front of the prime minister. You're singing and there's a guest there that changes everything. And that kind of is the moment that really goes from thinking you might have to go back home

to go to college to be a journalist to actually the next step. So I'll let you keep going on the story. Well, so that meeting I had with the honorable Prime Minister, Brian Moroni's wife, Mila, she said, listen, I'd love you to sing at this wedding. I was so, it meant a lot to me to be asked. But at the same time, I had sort of given up. And I was like, oh, you know, you're going to go sing at a wedding. And she said, well, David Foster's going to be there. And she said, you know, we, We've had a hand in introducing David to some other great Canadian artists. And not that we've been completely responsible, but we've definitely, you know,

falling in love with young Canadian artists like Celine Dion, and they were part of that, you know. And of course, I was like, oh, my God, this is amazing. So they were so sweet with me, and I actually got to stay with them. You know, they were just really good people to me. And I ended up at the wedding. I remember I had got up to sing. And I think I was singing like Mac the Knife or something.

I was pretty terrified. And when I looked over to my left, there was the prime minister. And he had David Foster under his arm, not a headlock or anything, but just, you know, he was basically saying to David, look of this kid, look, check this out, you know. And David, we finished the thing. And David came up to me and he said, hey, hey, man, you know, that's really impressive. You're really, this is really authentic. And I said, oh, thank you.

And he said, hey, man, you want to come down to L.A.? And you want to work on some stuff? and of course I thought oh my God this is it I've made it but the problem with the story is that it was never going to be that simple and it wasn't that simple

because even when I went down to Los Angeles a week later David wasn't sure and it was a huge meeting because as David used to say you're on my radar but dude it was a year of me doing gigs

and working with him and doing stuff and I would say to him you know David would you produce this record? And he said to me, you know, Mike, I don't think so. And at one point he finally just said, hey, dude, I love you, man. You're a good kid.

You know, I really like you. You're really talented, but I'm never going to produce your record. And I'm never going to, you're never going to get signed to Warner Brothers. And Warner Brothers, and he said, this is just, I just don't think this is. He said the same thing everyone has always said.

And so long story short, I kind of, he basically said, listen, I can make a demo, but like anyone else, if you want me to do this, you know what I mean, you'd have to come up with the finances for it and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so my manager at the time was a really great lady named Bev Delich. And she went and we pounded the pavement in Vancouver and we went and raised the money, which David Foster was very surprised about. And I came back to Los Angeles and I said, hey, David, I have the money.

And I could see that look of, oh, shit. Now I have to do this. So he said, okay, Mike, I'll make, you know, we'll make, you know, six songs and he said, I'll take it, you know, and he says, we'll see what happens. And then about a week into it, uh, after, it was about 9-11, I guess, or something just after 9-11, um, Vegas had, you know, been shut down and everything and, and he called me and he said, Jay Leno needs an opening act. Would you go down and be an opening act for Jay? And I did. I started working with Jay. And, and while I was there opening for Jay one morning, he called me and said,

called me real early. And I drank all night. So I was not. good shape. And he called me about 9 o'clock in the morning. He says, hey, you want to come to my villa. And he says, I want you to come and sing something for Paul Anka. And of course, again, I shit my pants. Oh, my God. Are you kidding me? Paul Anka, you know, oh, my God. So we went into this villa and they literally rolled in a piano. And David said, okay, go ahead, sing something. And he says, what do you want to hear him sing? Paul says, why didn't you sing my way? You know, my way? I says, yeah. So David played, you know, 9 o'clock in morning. And I sing, and now, the end is near.

And I sang it. And Paul said, you know what, David? That's great. What do you need? And he said, I'd like to come in and do this with you. And then I made the record. And I don't even know how to get into this. The whole thing, I started to make the record.

And the thing fell through, Ross. It did? It did, dude. It fell through. Something happened with the investors or something. I don't even remember what it was. I just remember that David took me aside. and he said this isn't going to work.

He said, you know, the investors, it just doesn't work. And he said, I'm sorry, kid, it's just not going to happen. And I had been well into making, like, I had made like six demos. And I had then, of course, told the guys that were going to invest from Vancouver that they weren't needed. And so they were out. And that was it. My dream came to a crashing hall right there. I sat in Malibu to studio.

my manager at the time wasn't there so I didn't have a drive home and I was devastated. When I say devastated, I mean, it's one thing, never reaching your dream, but it's another thing having it there right in your grasp and then it's gone. And so David was working with a producer

named Mombardo Gatika, who's a really incredibly talented Chilean guy and great producer on his own. right and and he says you need a ride home and I says yeah I do and he could tell I was just done like I was on the ver I mean listen man I literally was on the verge of tears you know so umberto drove me back I was living in west Hollywood it was I was rent in this little place and uh umberto I remember he parked the car and he said let me just he says listen he said David doesn't like he said David Buster doesn't like confrontation

he said, so here's what you're going to say to him. And he literally gave me all the things that I was going to say to him. And so a few days later, two or three days later, I had happened to be hired to sing Kenny G's, I think it was Kenny G's anniversary of his wedding or something. And so David and I had come in to set up and I says, David, can I speak to you? And I pulled David aside.

And I basically regurgitated what Mberto had said. What was it? It was basically, hey, David, we have something so special here, so unique. These songs are so good. Please, David, please. Give me a chance. Get me into a meeting with Tom Wally at Warner Bros.

Who was the president at Warner Brothers at that time. Give me one chance to play my case, man. And if it doesn't work, I will never bug you again. Because I was a ballbreaker. Like, I wasn't giving up, you know. And David, you know, at points David got would get mad. He'd say, dude, get lost. Like, get out of my face, you know.

and I said, please just let me give me a chance. And David, you know, poor day, you know, that's a scary thing. He was pretty new as an executive there. He had had success with Josh Grobin. But, I mean, it was a lot to ask a guy to go, hey, put your balls on the line for me. Yeah. And, you know, especially if he wasn't sure. But obviously, he had enough faith in me.

And so he called me a few days later. And he said, all right. I won't say the exact words, but it was, let's see, what a 26-year-old Blank knows about the music business. He says, we got a meeting with Tom. So a couple days later, I was dying, man. I just went down to Warner there, down in Burbank.

I mean, my first time ever walking into that building and with that history. I just, I clearly remember walking in and seeing the photos on the wall. I mean, I just remember, being so intense. It was like Green Day, Madonna, and Leonard Cohen, you know what I mean, and Neil Young and like Prince. Prince. It was just like, oh my God, oh my God, like, oh my God. And just dying. And then I got into the, I remember we walked in and to the, to Tom's office, his

big corner office. And I, I didn't know what to expect in this really handsome, you know, young executive you know with a lot of you could tell he had that kind of just a X factor and whatever and he he and it was so funny

because he walked in and he smiled at me and he said hi and he sat down and he said um so why why should we sign you he said we already have Sinatra on Reprise

and uh And I didn't, I mean, obviously I had no idea that question was coming. And I said, Mr. Wally, I said, Sinatra's dead. I said, don't, you know, I say, he's my hero. Don't bury this music with him. Give me a shot. Give me one, give me a chance.

And I will, I will bust my ass for you. I love this. I want to be a custodian of this. I think I can do it as well or better. anyone else, give me a shot to go out there and do it, man, and continue, you know, the legacy of my heroes in this music. And then we listened to the song, and he was very stoked. He didn't say much. David, you know, tried to stand up for me, and David sort of played his case for me. And he was very brave about it. And then I called, actually, I flew my grandpa down to L.A.

Because we left the meeting, and I remember looking at David, and I said to David, oh, man, And I said, that wasn't good, was it? And he said to me, you know, kid, I don't know. He said, honest to God, I did not get a read. I don't know. He said, but listen, he said, you have, he said, you were great. You were honest. He says, you know, he said, I think there's nothing more that you can do, man.

He says, you've done it all. And if it doesn't work, dude, you know what? It wasn't meant to be. And so I flew my grandpa from L.A. He came down to stay with me. And I was down in the gym running. four days later and the doors flew open and my grandpa was crying and he he said sunshine sunshine he said you're you're with warner and that was it i went upstairs i ran upstairs i got up the elevator

shaken you know and uh and david foster came on the phone and uh and it was one of the really it's funny i get emotional about it because it was you know um like listen i I will love David Foster until I die. Because, you know what I mean? My lowest, I saw the real compassionate, beautiful guy that he is. And he, so I got on the phone and says, hi. And he said, hey, Mike, man. He said, you're never going to have to worry.

He said, because you're part of the Warner family. And we got your back. And we're going to make a great record. And your dreams are about to come true. and I just, it was like, oh my God, this is happening. And even then, Ross, it wasn't done. Because even then I made the first record, and we went and sat in a meeting, and they said to me, listen, we love you,

but if you don't sell a certain amount of copies of this first record, of course, you don't get another shot. That's it. You know what I mean? We got to see that this works. Do you remember what the number was at that time? I do. And what's weirder is the woman.

who was doing the numbers, whose job it was to basically guesstimate the number that I would sell in my career, I believe the number that she felt that would be sold in my career was 60,000 to 150,000 copies. I believe it was that. And what's strange about that is she now works with me. She's worked as a part of my management office

for the last, I don't know, man, 12, 15 years. and I'll say Do you call her out on it still? Like do you guys, I imagine like you're in the management office you guys are like having coffee next to each other like 60,000. It's cute because I said for it not that long ago. I was like, Joe, I go, Joe, what are you thinking? Like, you know what I mean?

Like 60,000 copies, Joe. And she goes, my chicken, she goes, for fuck sake. Your first EP was Spider-Man. She goes, what did you think you were? She says, of course. none of us thought that that was going to be. She says, come on, dude. What was this? This weird little chubby dude

with big hair doing these, you know what I mean? She's like, no one thought. She's like, come on. But here's the thing. Like, by the time, you know, you've released, at this point, you've released a lot of music in your life. You had, you know, independently and you're signed a Warner and now you've got David Foster.

I assume that the, you know, this is going to be the moment but you've also had nine times where it's like this is going to be the moment and then they're like you know it's like no it's not and somebody puts the stop sign in front of you and it's not like it was easy it's not there's no way you came out

with the album and the next day it was the biggest album in the world by the way that's the funny part like I remember in West Hollywood running down because there used to be this I used to stay at the yeah what's the hotel called the little like it's a lot of artists stay there it's like the boutique kind of

hotel. Oh, yeah. Right in West Hollywood, right near the coffee bean is right kind of beside it. Yeah, right. Oh, oh, you're thinking of, um, oh my, yeah, why am I so bad at this? The, uh, Chateaumarmant? No, no, no, not as close. You're thinking of the small one over. It was like, it looked like almost a motel. Anyway, I remember, like, I ran. It was like, I think it was like a Sunday, maybe. And I remember running because the record had been out for a week. And I ran to the, to buy the billboard. because I wanted to see

if I was on billboard and I remember flipping and I think dude I may be wrong if you could research this and probably correct me but I believe I was 198 or 189

or 1009 something like that yeah and I was like oh my god I was like yeah it was huge for me but it's funny because it didn't it didn't work in America

it wasn't like it was okay like that first record those first months of release it was but yet in Africa in Australia South Africa was big

the Philippines and it was like it was happening in these sort of countries way outside of America and so that's what I did I just went and a lot of it was Jay Leno's advice and my manager of Bruce Allen who had helped

to build Brian Adams' career the same way by you know going international and just taking off to where he was wanted. And I remember when I was opening for Jay Leno, who was also really great with me, I said to him once, I said, like, do you have any advice for me? And he basically said, yeah, man. He said, go to their backyards.

He said, don't expect them to come to you. He said, go as far as you have to go, go wherever you have to go. He said, if you go to their backyards and you become tangible, they will take ownership of you. And it was great advice. Yeah, that hustle's real And there's a real one-on-one where you can see the You see the If you're talented and you're actually going to places to perform

And they want to see you It works tenfold Versus I think people still think that they can get a following By playing shows randomly Yes And I think that that's really difficult Versus if there's a pocket of ten people And they love you and you go and you perform for them

They'll bring a friend the next time. And that was like, I was lucky because I had Warner setting it up where like, dude, I was, I mean, even after selling like a million records and having success in certain places, they would still call me and say, um, you want to come to London? You want to do a showcase? You want to go to France? You want to go to Paris? And I would show up in a little hotel lobby and they would invite six or seven or eight, you know, TV bookers or a couple. big journalists, and I would do a half an hour showcase. I guess some of the questions I have is, you know, it's one thing when you are successful

in the Philippines and you're doing these kinds of shows, it's awesome, it's all great, but it's still not the same thing as being successful in the U.S., which was your goal, you know, along with, you know, obviously Canada, you had some following already, but like once all of a sudden things really take off. I don't know. Is feeling good like the first, what's the first, like, hit where everyone was like, oh, that's, that's the hit.

Well, it's interesting, man. Like, that's another part of this discussion because, you know, when I made that first record, I felt, and I knew, I was in no position to negotiate. I remember sitting on that first record and saying, you know, I'm a songwriter. And I remember David would laugh and he would say, hey man well when you do your for your solo record you can you can do that um because i was just it was

like here here's what you're going to do you're going to sing these songs that we've chosen for you and uh these are you know what i mean these are the the most successful sort of covers and uh i remember saying oh i'm a i'm a songwriter you know i got these songs and um and it didn't it wasn't a natural i think they didn't understand the fit of it but you're a crooner you know what i mean what he mean you're a writer or songwriter. No, no, no, no, no, you can't have it both. You're Tony Bennett, Sinatra, you know what I mean? They're not songwriters, Elvis Presley. These are great singers and good entertainers, but they are, you know, we take other people's songs and, okay, and you interpret those. And so I had a bunch of songs, and I remember, it's funny, man, I remember having

moments, right? I mean, once David heard or Umberto heard these songs, Um, it's interesting. Like I had, as a young kid, I was writing them. And I got really lucky, Ross, like the way that, that life, that life, you know, moves and some, you know, good things happen. But one of the, one of the greatest things that ever happened to me was that we had made the record. And then we were going to go do showcases.

Uh, we were going to start at the synagogue, Michael Feinstein, Cinegirl. And I, and I had my own band, you know, kind of, uh, different guys. that I had worked with through Canada and America. And David and his sister James said, listen, we need, and actually my manager and Randy Burz, was part of my management company, he said, we need to put you together. You need a band. You need a band of kids your age that, you know, get you, that have the same sensibility as you and that doesn't look weird and, you know what I mean?

So I had these auditions and I auditioned a bunch of horn players and rhythm. section and and in the audition there was a kid that was uh that i wanted a piano player and and they said to me uh yeah i said this is the one i want he's a and by the way to this day he's a he's a he's a monster uh session we went to school together yeah and uh but no i'm talking about the other guy because i didn't want that guy oh and they really yeah and and alan chang was was had had had auditioned and with him. And I was like, nah, I like this other guy. He seems more seasoned.

And they were like, no, no. Alan, I remember James Foster saying, no, Alan Chang, he's really, look how good looking he is. And I was like, I'm not, this is not the backstreet boys. Like, I need an MD. I need a guy who can lead us. And how, I mean, God, like, how stupid. What, like, that's one of the greatest worst decisions that I've ever had made for me. Because one of the greatest things that ever happened to me was,

was hiring Alan Chang because not only did I find a guy who turned out to be one of the greatest jazz musicians and companyists who I think on the planet but I ended up meeting my dream partner my songwriting partner and we had both had ideas

we were both kids and we both had these songs that we've been working on and so for the next 15 years we would to this day we would write together. And one of the first ones we came up was with Home. We wrote the song Home. And, of course, it was a great hit for us. And it helped that Blake Shelton covered it.

And it became a number one hit of country. And it was covered by Westlife in England. And that was a hit. And then we wrote everything. And we just continued to write together. And like, I get, again. I mean, it's so crazy, man. There are so many artists that want to be writers.

and there are a lot of writers who want to be artists, there really aren't a lot of people who have, you know, home. And, you know, they just don't have number one songs that are covered by other people. It's a dream scenario for most writers to have. Yeah. And it was a dream scenario to have co-writers like Alan Chang and Amy Foster, Gillis, and, Amy, forget, Gillis, and she did not Gillis. anymore, but Amy Foster and especially early on Jan Arden, who's a great, wonderful artist.

And I just had this really safe and really a loving atmosphere, right, to sort of never be embarrassed or shy to share my ideas, no matter how simple or stupid. I mean, I had never learned music theory. So I had always felt a little insecure, you know, because I didn't know how. the correct way of writing a song was. I just knew I would, I felt this and I, and they were very emotional for me. And I knew that certain chords and voicings made me feel a certain way.

And for me, it was like, Alan Chang was this really, um, empathetic, uh, kind, beautiful, smart. It was just like, dude, I can't tell you. It's like this, this match was made in heaven with, us and um he just brought so much to my life artistically that it was it was like you and it's weird too because we would both like I remember like we would just look at each other we you know after haven't met you yet or other time you know we would like we'd be at a restaurant we just like

look at each other and be like this is fucking crazy like this is this is this crazy is this happening like because it never felt like we were songwriters you know it was like you know two dudes having and it just kind of would happen. Well, it's amazing about somebody who is so accomplished at recording standards is that when you record the songs you write, they almost immediately feel like standards. I think that it would be hard pressed for somebody who doesn't know which songs were standards and which ones you wrote,

for them to pick out which ones were standards. Yeah, I wonder with the early stuff, probably. Because they would think that you've made some songs standards that weren't standards before, and some you've written songs that are now certain standards. You know from us working on nobody about me together and writing, there's this pressure because you're, you know, I'm going to cover, I'm going to interpret some of the greatest songs ever written. That doesn't mean they're all standards, but I mean some of the greatest songs ever written. And so if you're going to write songs, and now I'm going to have four originals on a record with, say, seven other songs, the pressure is on.

Like it really is. The pressure is on to at least write something that can sit beside those songs and not seem offensive. You know what I mean? Listen, and I'm not saying that I'm writing, you know, God only knows, you know. but they have to stand up in some way. They have to have the gravitas and the emotional honesty and hopefully the musicality of some of those great songs. It's a weird thing, man.

Like, I still live in the weirdest world. Like, I know we've talked about this a bunch, but it's like, you know, it's funny. So I started to make this record with Greg Wells, you know. And even trying to, and Greg Wells gets it without me telling them, But even the explanation of how, you know, even trying to sort of talk about my plan for this record or my vision, I can only imagine to Greg Wells, it must sound so schizophrenic. You know what I mean?

He must hear like me, you know, it's like, hey, yeah, that song. And then you're going to do this song too with that. And though he never said that. To be honest, he said, no, dude, I get this. I get this and I'm going to help to make it cohesive. Your tone is what draws what makes the through line in an album. I mean, I really tend to not think that this is probably not correct, but in a way, song selection isn't what defines an artist sound versus their tone.

I think like their tone and if you're fortunate enough to have one producer or two producers work on most of an album. You know, you'll, you'll be that through line. It may seem schizophrenic to you, but the listener is not going to feel that way. They're going to think that they're just listening to a Michael Boubley album. Yeah, man, that's, that's an interesting point. It's always, it's funny because you want to, you want to, you always want to grow, right? You want to, you want to, you want to, like, push your limits and boundaries, and you don't, like,

like dude sometimes I'll I'll want to have really modern poppy in the box house production and I that's what moves me

like I want on a certain pops and it's like that's what I want to hear I want it to be really tuned and I want it to have a really modern sound and then I'll have people that go go okay but you know you can't have it

it can't sound too weird and too modern because it's not not that you're going to fail at your attempt, but more, hey, people might think you're trying too hard. You know what I mean? And that's the plus of being a songwriter versus being an artist,

is that you don't have to, you can jump genres and try to be authentic in that genre and then jump. It's really hard for an artist to go and, you know, there are certain expectations that your audience has. Totally, man. And they do. Like for me, one of my favorite, I'm not saying it because it's you, but one of my favorite experiences ever of making a record was doing nobody but me with you guys.

Because I, like for the first time with Yon Carlson and you, it's like I got to go for like everything that I had wanted. Like I love hip hop and I love rap and I love like really. I like great pop music, you know? and it was a lot of fun to be able to feel like I had earned the right to sort of do it. I mean, obviously, we know that it's funny. That's a bit of a heartbreak for me in more ways than one, because we obviously, we made that record. And I felt it was one of the best records I had ever made.

And I felt the songs were some of the best songs I had ever written. And, of course, my son, was diagnosed with cancer. And that was it. I think I did one or two days of press. And that was the end. I never, ever did another day. And of course, God knows what would have or could have happened.

But it was always, you know, we put a lot of love into that record. And we obviously, through nothing that we could have done, it had the life that it had. but it was always it still is I talked to Alan about it a lot it was like I did what I had to do there was no choice but I often wonder

what might have been with those songs if I had had the chance to do all the TV shows and do all the tour and you know what I mean and do the award shows and do all that stuff so I'll never know

but I'll never regret it either I did what I have I mean the experience you know I don't want to ignore Noah and everything that your son went through and the joy of watching him get better is amazing. But the experience of making that album is super fun, which brings me to the next segment,

which is, what would Yon Carlson ask Michael Boubley on and the writer is? And he wants to know who's the best by the best, bongo hockey player. He kind of had, didn't he kind of win most? He's a very talented guy. He might actually be really good at, bongo hockey is a game

that we came up with in the studio, and I think that we probably played as much bongo hockey in Brian Adams studio as we did actually writing. Explain to our listeners what bongo hockey is. I remember perfectly, so if you want me to, I can. Yeah, no, you should do it, because

let's be honest, you have a great memory So Bangal Hockey was done in a big We had a big open studio Big massive studio paste In a place called the warehouse That is a studio that Brian Adams built and owns And so we had a big piano at the back of the room

And we would go and we would work on whatever we were writing We'd write you know start off with a verse and come up with Okay this is a cool And then because I You know I have the concentration of a gnat I would be like okay now we'd play bongahockey which was basically we took a chair from the studio and we would put it against the back of the wall and then we would take bongos and we would put them on top of and rest them on top of the chair

and then one of us would be the shooter and you'd stand about 20 or 25 feet away with a tennis ball and the other two guys would stand in front of the bongo and I believe one of us would stand with because I'm right-handed You're left-handed? I mean, we would just switch off. We'd just switch off. Yeah. And then, so you'd get 10 shots to try to hit the bongo. But as a defender, the two guys defending the bongo would have a chance to stop the tennis ball from hitting the bongo.

And it was a joy. I mean, it was the greatest. I always wondered if it could have become an Olympic sport. Yeah. It still can. And, you know, I will say his other question is to ask when we can come up and write and play a little bit. So I think that that's, you know. Oh, man.

You know that I... Sunday that's going to have to happen. That would be, you know what's funny? I feel like we weirdly get so much done. So much, we do great work because of how much fun it is. Well, okay, so there was one thing you said to me during that writing session that was really interesting. You said that, you know, this is like the fastest you've ever written a song. Yeah.

And this comes from, you know, when you get in the writing circuit, you're used to, you know, a rough draft in a day of a song. You know, maybe you, some people are amazing, can do like four songs in a day. Some people can write a song in a week. But you're not somebody who just like spills out songs. You're somebody who really is pretty meticulous when you write songs. So even though we're having fun, that's all part of the process for you. It was new. Like that was, like, just the process was absolutely, like, very new for me.

Because even when Alan and I write together, many times it's like, okay, so for the Christmas record, say Alan had written a song called Cold December Night. And he had, I mean, this was his thing, man. And it was like his baby, he had put all the work into it. And then like once he had almost all of it down, he brought it and said, what do you think of this song? And then we worked together. And this would just happen with certain songs.

Like it was like the reason for me to write like that is because every song that I had written, or for the most part, had started at such a personal place, in such a personal place. in such a personal way. I was emoting and I was singing about something that I was feeling or something that I was going through. And, you know, I would, I would get inebrated. Like I would just, that's how I, I mean, that was my process. I would, you know, I would, I don't know how to, I don't want to, you know, I'm not like some pro-drug guy or alcohol. But I would, I got kids, man.

That's why I'm so like this now. I used to just be so much different about it. But now, of course, like, drugs are bad. Yeah, exactly. Do any of that because kids, you'll die. But, I mean, that's how I freed myself, man. And I would get to that place. And then I would, you know, I would just write.

I'd sit on the piano. I'd sit on a tape recorder. And I would just, you know, I would be really emotional. And I would come up. And those are the chords. I knew that's what helped tell the story. And this is what my story is about. and this is my heartache

or this is the longing for love that I'm looking for. This is my revenge. You know, so it became weird and exhilarating at the same time to like actually go into a room

with other people in real time and like just write something because it never happened like that for me. The first time it ever happened I was at my house in West Vancouver and Alan Chang and Amy Foster were with me. And I was, I can't remember why, but Alan was, you know, I really like this percussive bing, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, I like this like percussive feel on the piano,

this bounce. And Alan started to come up with this cool, like, really cool intro line. And I was starting to sing the melody. And I think Amy was like, you know what would be cool? Like, what about a song about, you know, that person, like, you know, that you've not met yet. like that person that is there and exists but you know we just haven't met them yet and it was like okay yeah and that that's the first time that anything had ever come together like that and it was and it was weird it was grueling for me because all of a sudden i was having to accept the other

writers ideas and i was you know and i was like that's not that's maybe that's not the cord that i would choose to you know what i mean and i kind of man and then but you know you find yourself at certain i mean i'm sure you do this all the time dude like because now now i do write like this with other people but many times i'll walk out of a room and i'm like that's awesome this is awesome we have something awesome but for as many times as there's that there's times where i walk out and i go okay i didn't want to be mean and i just wanted to be nice and so when they when they you know when they said what about this what about this voicing you know i went cool, yeah, but really inside I felt like,

and I remember talking to Foster about it once, and I said, David, it's hard for me to write like this with other people. And he said, yeah, of course it is. Compromise breeds mediocrity. Huh. I mean, that's an amazing statement. I think that there's an element of that, and that's part of why I think if you want a unique song,

write it with one person or write it on your own. Yes. There's no question that you do not need nine. Nine people in a room will just create a really vanilla song because that means everyone has to think it's cool. And isn't that how so much is written now? It's like, I can't tell you how many, yes. Yeah, I mean, that's where it's like why it's nice to have.

But, you know, one or two people in a room is probably fine. You know, I also have to find that way not to be Canadian because it's a weakness. And it's actually, I hope it's okay that I tell the story. But so Michael Pollock, who was introduced to me through a guy and Greg Saunders,

who's a lovely guy. So Michael started, I got to know Michael and he's a really good, he's just such a beast and such a good, good guy. And he's, in all our conversations, he's been such a gentleman.

And you know what I mean? Just really easy going, easy talk to. So I said to him, hey, man, send me stuff. Like send me ideas or send me, you know. So one day he sent me a song and it was a good song, but it wasn't right for me. And so, but I didn't know what to say, right? So I didn't really answer.

And a couple weeks ago, I call him and I'm like, hey, dude, you know, hey, man, I'm working on the song that you had and everything's great and this is going to be great. I think you're going to really like it. And he goes, oh, that's great. Mike. He goes, what, how about the song that I sent you? and I was like, oh, yeah, oh, yeah. And, dude, he, it's like he, he went from, like, this soft, sweet guy to all of a sudden, like, he was like a New Yorker. And he was like, yeah, listen, dude, listen, man, if I send you a song, you don't like it, just fucking tell me you don't like it, okay?

Like, you're not helping me, dude, by being like a Canadian wuss about it, right? You know? He's like, just, he's like, listen, it doesn't help me. He's like, just be straight with me, dude. He goes, listen, when I work with writers, okay, I, I, like, if something's not great, I tell them, I'm like, I just destroy them. And he goes, and you know what, they might think I'm a dick that day, but I'm telling you now, four years down the road, they're going to say, my God, that was the greatest lesson. And thank you, Michael, for being real with me. And he was, he's so right.

Like, he is, I've told the story to a few of my friends because it was really, it made me even love him more. I was like, yeah, dude, I needed to not be. It really helps. A lot of artists are afraid to tell songwriters what they think of songs, and it gets complicated. It's like leaving the room where being like I wouldn't have chosen those chords, that doesn't necessarily help anybody out, especially if you're the one singing it. You know, it's like, it's okay to be honest as you go. It's such a weird, because no one's right and no one's wrong. I mean, it is all we have are our instincts. Yeah.

And it's funny, man. One of the reasons that I started like trying to go and work with other writers and other producers is because I've spent the last 20 years basically imposing my will, you know? And that's, I mean, I have my instincts. But I really wanted a chance to do something where I let go a little bit. And not that it wouldn't be something that I love, but maybe something that sounds a little more fresh to people. before we a few more things and then we'll go

but you you play a lot of arenas and you saw them out and you were once trying to sneak into bars we haven't really talked about your live tour stuff and your live shows but you're still like that's still you know your bread and butter so to speak

you know along with writing and recording yeah please dude I make hundreds of dollars through streaming Dude, that's everything. That's just a realist.

And you make more than hundreds of dollars from doing shows? Yeah. I mean, it's funny, man. I would be happy to play for clubs. I mean, I like, I love making music and I love doing it with my friends. And I love the interaction with the crowd. I miss it a lot. and I miss it a lot.

I feel like I get a lot out of it. I feel like those people that have brought me through really rough times and dark times. And so I always see it as like this opportunity to, I know it sounds cliche, but to really like show them. You know, they changed my life, dude. Like I live this life and I have this, you know, I have all the things I have because of them. So it's awesome for me to go and have an actual genuine joy and appreciation and be able to throw a party like that and to take people away for a couple hours

and give them something because there's no possible way that I can ever, ever give them back what they've given me. You know, there's just no way. All right, we're going to go to the next segment. I'm a list five things. Just tell me something that comes out of the top of your head. All right, let's start with David Foster. I'm a foster child. He's one of my heroes.

And if everyone knew how beautifully he was inside, they love him as much as I do. Do all you superstar people who came from Foster say that? Is that like a thing where do you guys all say, oh, yeah, like when you see like Josh, are you guys like, yeah, you're a foster child too? No, no. I just thought it was funny to say.

You know what? I think I've seen David in a bunch of circumstances where, like, you know, we all want to be tough, you know, we all want to, like, show how cool we are. And, you know, there's that kind of insecurity that all of us have because, you know, because how cool could it be to be a really good guy, you know? You want to be a badass and I'm dangerous, you know. but I've seen the real David and I don't think I've ever I can say this I don't think I've ever met a mogul or someone who is at that level elite level in their business who has made as much time for young artists and producers and writers as he has like and you never hear about it but all these years that I've worked them on I can't tell you how many how many people have

he's walked them into his studio and really just tried in any way he could to give them advice or to show them the path or and uh actually it was always weird i would actually ask him like you know dude like doesn't this make you you know doesn't this ever isn't it become taxing and he'd say no man people did it for me i wouldn't be here so he's i i know the best of him he's a good dude let's go with alan chang uh my brother My family, again, probably one of my musical heroes. I wish that, I hope one day to be as talented as he is. And it's dark.

He's dark? Oh, he's dark, man. We call him Changri. Are you kidding me? Alan's not, Alan's a beautiful onion. He's layered and he's complicated and he's beautiful. And, you know, man, I don't know. I don't know if he's going to what he wants for his future,

if he's going to continue to come with me on the road. If he, you know, a lot of these times road guys, they, you know, they go, oh, it's too much for me and they want to do their own thing. But, you know, I can't tell you what reality is, but I can tell you that in my fantasy, he is my partner for life, man. He's my Bernie Toppen or my Elton John or my, I don't know what you want to call it. he's, yeah, that's my, that's my, like, um, ying and Chang, man. Let's go, uh, Brian Adams.

Uh, stepbrother. He's like literally like a stepbrother. Yeah. I mean, you could also then go to your manager next. Yeah, I mean, my, Brian, Brian is like my stepbrother, but what's weirder is, it's like, man, it's like that was, as a kid from Vancouver, I mean, I was, I was. there was no bigger Brian Adams fan. Like I knew every song I reckless and cuts like a knife were like I mean man it was just a big inspiration for me

and so getting to sign with Bruce Allen who is like a dad to both of us is weird like even to this day like I talked to Brian on FaceTime the other day and we were just shooting the shit and catching up but I think it's probably weird for Brian more than it ever will be for me because even though, you know, like, we're friends and he's Brian, I still, like, there's still that 13-year-old kid that, like, I look at him.

I'm like, fuck, you're Brian Adams, man. Fuck, I love your shit, man. God damn. I love your stuff. Like, I love everything about that, dude. Like, I love that. I loved his songwriting. Him and Jim Valance wrote some of the greatest, like, dude, like, the best is yet to come is one of my favorite songs of all time.

and I can go down the list and he would make it on the list. He'd be like a Desert Island disc and then his sense of his voice, that regress, like the way that he sings and it makes it sound like it's so simple and easy and he's like got a huge range. Anyway, I'm a fan. I'll always be a fan. It's weird because now I have to sort of try to compartmentalize my fandom

and then like this being like the step kid of Bruce with him. It's weird. It's always going to be weird. Your wife? My much, much better half. You know, you find out who people are when the shit hits the fan. And I found out that my wife is my hero. I don't know what else to say.

She is, if I had known on my wedding day that I was going to end up with somebody as good and is, you know, man, I wish I would have married her 10 years before. I wish I would have known her. But she would have been 11, so that would have been. The three kids. Oh, my, well, you know, they're my life. They're my life. They're my happiness.

They, along with my wife, they anchor me. I'm able to have perspective in my life. I'm able to bring myself back from the brink. when I'm worried about what people think of me, or if this record is going to work, or will I sell the tickets, or is it time to go back to nightclubs? And sometimes it takes just to look at them and to go,

you know what, none of that shit matters at all. And it doesn't matter. It really doesn't in the scheme of things. Well, thank you for doing this podcast, my friend. Thank you for having me, man. I'm going to tell a quick anecdote before we I've mentioned this the time we've spent together you know the first time we spent together in

Vancouver and you know we show up and there are tickets on our our bed in the hotel to go see the Canucks play and their seats are incredible and I'm a hockey player and Johan's Swedish so he likes hockey and, you know, we show up to the studio, and the next day you have people picking us up

and we're going to the Giants Arena. You're a part owner of the team, and we're playing hockey with jerseys with our names on it. And this is all part of our writing session, mind you know. And when you're saying, you know, you have fun, and that's part of the joy of writing songs. I've been writing songs for a long time with a lot of different artists and it's rare that artists treat songwriters so well

but it wasn't really that that sticks with me as much as like making sure we stop by the hospital and this is before I think this before we knew anything about it was you were still already stopping by the hospital to do good things as part of the session even and then there was this time where it was raining it was pouring rain

and there was a I feel like this is real it was raining outside and I'm pretty sure you ran down with an umbrella because there was a woman getting into a car who didn't have an umbrella like you ran out to like make sure somebody got I don't know if you remember that

there's like this moment where it was like it's like a cliche of like what a nice guy does. Yeah. Like you'd watch people walk outside and you see them in the rain and they get wet and you're like, that's a person getting wet. Michael Boubley doesn't run outside to go and make sure that person's dry. And I feel like that's such a good analogy for, I feel like our relationship and who

you are to a lot of people where, you know, we've each had some things in our lives where we You've called to check up on each other. And you come in with an umbrella. And it just means a lot to me, man. Oh, dude, I love you, man. Thank you, buddy. So I love you. You know what's weird, dude?

And I, not to get old mushy, but it's so cool to have, like, when you love somebody and you see them doing well. Because weirdly, man, every time that I see you have success, Every time you write a hit song, every time your Broadway, you know what I mean? Your Broadway show goes, I don't know. I feel like it's like, I know it sounds weird to say this because it's not the right way, but it's like, I don't know, man. It's like one of my kids did.

No, I love it, man. You know what I mean? Like, it is my success. I absolutely, I don't know. It's a cool feeling, man. It's a beautiful feeling to have nothing but love. Amen. Thanks for listening to this episode of And The Writer Is.

If you want to hear music from this songwriter I just interviewed, be sure to check out our Spotify playlist or visit our website at and the writer is.com. If you like what we're doing, please subscribe to us. You can also like us on Facebook and Twitter. And The Writer Is is is produced by Joe London and published by Big Deal Music. A special thanks to David Silverstein from Mega House Music and Michael White. Until next time, this is Ross Golden.