And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan - Ep. 157: girl in red

Episode Date: July 11, 2022

Today’s guest is continuing her path to world domination, kicking off 2022 with a Best New Alternative Artist nomination for the iHeart Radio Music Awards. It’s a well deserved nod after being the most played female artist on Alt Radio with “Serotonin.” The song reached #2 and spent 30 weeks on the Alt chart, 21 of those weeks in the Top 10. “Serotonin” streams surpassed 84M for the track, with over 1.85 billion career streams to date. Her first headline tour since the release of her debut completely sold out the North American run and was a hot pick at the Coachella Music Festival this past April. Since our guest released her critically acclaimed debut album if i could make it go quiet last year, the album received world-wide critical acclaim from fans and critics alike and was revered by the likes of Taylor Swift, Camilla Cabello and more. It was included on “Best of 2021” lists from Rolling Stone, Billboard, Variety, NPR, Stereogum, NYLON, and more. In 2021, she also performed on The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon and Late Night With Seth Meyers, as well as TV performances worldwide on Skavlan, Late Night Berlin, and MTV’s EMAs. And The Writer Is… Girl In Red!Watercolor by: Michael Richey White Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey, what's up? It's Paige MacDonald, and this is your weekly music industry update. Molly Newman has been promoted to the newly created position of Chief Marketing Officer at Downtown Music Holdings. Veteran Music Executive and producer Irv Gotti has sold a stake in his master recordings to Olivier Chaston's acquisition vehicle iconoclast. Sony Music Publishing has renewed its global publishing deal with Latin Grammy-winning songwriter, producer, an artist, and former and former. And the writer is guest, Tiny. Pixel Links, a music Metaverse platform started by Joel Zimmerman and Richie Houghton, has announced several new hires. LimeWire, which is the former file-sharing platform, recently relaunched as a digital collectibles marketplace

and has officially rolled out its service with a superstar list of artists releasing NFTs on the platform. According to a new report from Twitch and the analytics platform, one in three people discover new music through Twitch. Hip-hop Star Logic has signed to BMG for a licensing deal with marketing and distribution. The Copyright Royalty Board has maintained its decision to increase the headline rate paid to songwriters in the United States from on-demand streaming services between the years 2018 and 2022. Alicia Outridge has been named the first chief technology and product officer at TuneCore.

The Amsterdam dance event has announced the first wave of artists for their October 2022 lineup. A big thank you to Hannah Rosenberg of Megahouse for gathering today's news. Now stay tuned for this week's episode of Anne The Writer is. Guys, listen up. Last year we started working with LAMP. It's a school called Los Angeles Academy for artists and music production. It's run by and founded by Stargate. their mentor list is nuts it's you know benny blanco Tommy Brown

Tenoshy Emily Warren John Cunningham you know a bunch of people who've been guests on this show so obviously we're fans of them and this school has been amazing and I wanted to bring them back this year so they can tell you an update on how LAMP is going and ways for you guys to get involved

in Lamp Tor dude good good catch up. It has been a very strange time in the last year, but you guys are still trucking through and it's even growing and growing. So I just want you to tell

everybody, you know, what's going on? How's the school going? Well, as you know, Ross, the Lamp is a one-year high-level music program. We're in Santa Monica, and California, and we have a site with 48 students. They collaborate, write music,

produce, every single day. And we started this last year. We're just graduating our first class and we're doing admissions for the next year now. And just the level of music that's coming out of this place is mind-blowing. We thought it was going to be hard to get people up to a professional level, but people came in with a growth mindset and they're already at a professional level. So these guys are ready to go out because we create a real-world environment where it's just like being in a writing session.

We pair producers with songwriter as an artist. and we write songs every single day. Then we break them down once a week. Focus on the songwriting, focus on the performance, the production, the beats, are the beats hitting, are the titles great, are the melodies distinct? Is it memorable? What can we do to make it better?

And that's the type of feedback you don't get in the industry, right? No one's ever going to tell you what you can do to your song to make it better. They just won't call you back. We have a program where it feels like the real world, but you get professional feedback from the best mentor. is in the game. I mean, I can't imagine if we would have had this when we were coming up. Just the ability to not only meet some of the people that you have coming in, but the ability to actually get that feedback is priceless because it took most of us a lot of not-so-good songs.

Exactly. I mean, when we started LAMP, the mission was, what can we give to the next generation that took us years to learn? What are the things that we wish we knew when we started out that we can tell people. There's no formula, but there's definitely certain key principles that never change in storytelling, and melody, and song structure and all these key things to take your song from good to

great, which is what it's all about. It's not about having a bunch of good songs. It's about having those few that are great. So tell me, if I'm a student and I come to Santa Monica to be at the school, what would a day look like for me? Well, typical days that we have mentors or workshop holders,

in the morning. We show up at 10 a.m. every day. And then by 3 p.m. you're in the studio. We have 16 writer rooms where we have, you know, it's fully decked out with microphones and monitors and keyboards and everything. People bring their own, you bring your own laptop,

and then you write songs and create music and try to make magic happen every day. That's our day and that's our week. If I can't get to Santa Monica, is there any way for me to be, to still learn from school. I assume not every student comes to Santa Monica. Is there an online

version of it? We have an online program which is just as big as if not bigger than the on-site which is you get the same content. We share all the mentors, we share all the workshops, we put people in groups. So you

Zoom or you FaceTime in with your group that week, you create songs, you exchange files. We teach you how to record your own vocals if you don't know how to do that. We teach you how to exchange beats, text over music, and then send that back and create a song by the end of the week. Deliver it on Friday and get feedback. Actually, you deliver it on Saturday now because some of the students have jobs, so we want to accommodate for that. Finish your song on Saturday, and the following week you get feedback from our listening panel.

Awesome. So admissions open now. How would I apply? You only get in by going to lampmusic.com and sharing your music. You don't need a degree. You don't need necessarily formal education. You only need talent and the ambition and the will to get better. So go to LAMPMUIC.com. You share your music. We listen to your music.

And we reach out, set up an interview, and we'll take you from there. Tor, congratulations on keeping this going. I just think you and Mekyll have been mentors of mine in many, ways and I'm just so envious of these kids that they get to do it so congratulations thank you so much roth all right man all right take care welcome to and the writer is i'm your host ross golan this do-it-yourself at-home song crafter is one of the most buzzworthy artists in years her authenticity is attracting fans from different generations her sexuality has been a beacon for the lgptu community and her business acumen has impressed music industry executives from all over the world.

She even worked with our very own Phineas on her alternative smash, Serotonin. This Norwegian is so refreshing, and she's just starting out. And the writer is Girl in Red, aka Marie Olvin. What up? Did I pronounce that writer? Is it like Ullivan? I would say Olvin. Wait, did you say Olvin?

If you did, I think that's fine. I mean, okay, so we can start from the beginning of your story because I feel like you have an unusual path as all humans do. But you were born in Norway. So I just assumed there was probably like an umlaut over the you. So you were born in Norway. Where in Norway? I was born in a little city called Durhamman, or actually I think it might be a big one, but I was born in Drummond and then I moved to another even smaller city called Horton, and then I lived there for about 19 years.

Why, how does a family end up in Norway? Do you know your family's lineage? Well, I know my dad, he's always been in Norway and like that side of the family has always been in Norway. But my mom, she grew up in Seattle and then, and I think she lived in New York as well. And then she had to move to Norway when she was like 16, which she still talks about it as a huge trauma. So that's how they ended up both in Norway and that's how they eventually met at some point. And then Norway is a great place to have a family because, you know, you. You don't have to pay for a kindergarten and shit. It's a great place.

The Scandinavian culture has notoriously taken over pop music probably for the last 50 years. What is it about Norwegian and Swedish culture that creates such quality musicians? I have no idea. But I mean, I think like you can find quality musicians like everywhere. But I think because like most of the music industry is it's very like L.A. base or like New York, L.A., probably mostly L.A. But I think one thing that is probably like interesting about Scandinavian or like European artists is that you just get another point of view. like you get like another cultural background into music than then like I don't know someone that grew up in the U.S. and then has lived in the U.S. their entire life.

You know what I mean? So I feel like you can kind of have, I mean, that's the way I've been thinking about it because like I'm, I'm like I'm often asked if I want to move to L.A. or like I want to move to the States. But then I'm like I'm worried I'm going to like lose my kind of like Scandinavian. I don't know, like view on things, if that makes sense. Totally. So I think that's like, I mean, there are great musicians everywhere outside of Europe and outside America. But I don't know.

And also just like, Scandinavia is a very wealthy part of Europe. And I think people have like the privilege to. learn instruments and like, you know, just get recording equipment and all that stuff. So I feel like it's probably like it's a whole bunch of stuff. I don't think it's one thing. Are your parents musicians? No. Not at all.

My mom, she works within tech. And I never really fully understood her job. But I think she's like a tech consultant. And my dad, he used to be a police officer. But then he got hit by a car. So now he is like doing some other. stuff. I don't even know what he's doing. But yeah.

Did that happen recently? My dad's car accident? Yeah. No, that was August 16, 2011, so it's a long time ago. Oh, wow. I mean, at that point, you were only 12

years old. Were you already playing music or writing music at that point? No. I was playing Minecraft. That was That was what I was doing. And I was creating Picaxes, Minecraft pickaxes out of cardboard

and stuff. So I was on a whole other level back then. So what introduced you to music? Or who introduced you to music? I remember like in eighth grade. I used to watch this guy make, like, make YouTube videos of him like playing guitar. And he was like, really?

I feel like his name was like Justin or something. He was like a really good guitar. artist and I like watch this videos and be like fuck I really want to play guitar and then I started like telling my mom I wanted to get a guitar for like the entirety of like eighth grade but like she never gave me one and I obviously couldn't afford one because I didn't have a job but um yeah that was like when I started I just wanted to play guitar because I thought it was really cool and then in ninth grade my grandpa he gave me one eventually for Christmas and that was great and that's when I started playing you have a pretty exact memory of those things. Do you have a good memory in general?

I don't have a good short-term memory. Well, like, I will not, if I don't see something, I'm kind of like it doesn't exist. So like if I see my unpaid bill, put it down on the table, walk out of the room, I'm like, I have no bills to pay. So, which isn't a very good thing. That's my ADHD kicking in all the time. But I do have a very specific memory. of like dates and and how like when things happened like timelines I have many timelines in my head so like music timeline is very like I remember like playing in seventh grade during a music class playing like on a on a black guitar because everyone else had like normal wood guitars I remember like small things like that I don't know when you got that guitar was in electric or an acoustic

It was a nylon acoustic. Yeah, that's the best way to learn. That's definitely, I had the crappiest one. It was my sisters, and she had one, and I didn't have one, and I just, I beat it to hell. It's in that closet over there. But I definitely need a nylon to learn how to play. It's just comfortable on the fingers.

Yes, it's like, I think if you go, if you go straight to like the I don't know the metal strings or whatever like um I don't know what they're called I think that's gonna be too rough for like some kids fingers you gotta like get that you know I don't it's just nice to start playing with something soft but I remember like I was like this sounds so boring and eventually like I really wanted like an electric guitar and then I bought like a fender uh stratocaster and then I didn't really have an amp so it didn't really sound cool because I didn't really understand I need to I had to to have an amp, so I've really had to learn from scratch.

How many sisters do you have? I have one full blood sister, and then I have a step-sister, and then I have a half-sister, and then I have a half-brother. Were they musical, or were they into music at all? No, so my sister, she's told me. You're just on an island, like in your family. You're literally the only music person. Well, like my mom, she has like a good ear, but like she's never done anything with it. And like, and she, she got that passed on by my grandpa who he used to have a piano when I was a kid.

And like I really love like, you know, playing the piano. Like I didn't know how to play it. I was just like I didn't understand like the system of the tiles and shit. But he had a piano and he was a really good piano player. But he's never done anything other than. than just like playing with his little whiskey on the piano. And then his mother was, which would be my great grandmother, who I've never met, she was a singer and a piano teacher.

So there are like musical people, but I've never had them like actively in my life, if that makes sense. Totally. What kind of music were you listening to that, you know, other than Justin on YouTube, who's playing guitar? I was listening to the other Justin, the Justin Bieber as well. Have you met him yet? No, I've never met Justin Bieber, but I met my friend the other day, who's an actress,

and she's kind of like, she's from Norway, but she's in like this big Norwegian film that's nominated for like an Oscar now and shit. And she, I don't know, we were talking about So House or something, and she said she had met him and I completely died because I've always been a very big Justin Bieber fan. I mean, I get the feeling that there will be about 30 people who listen to this podcast that are going to be texting somebody in the Justin Universe by the time we're done with that. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that I can connect some dots. It's weird. It's like the industry is so small.

And there's like you're doing music in, initially at home in Norway listening to worldwide artists but the minute your music's heard you join into this small bubble world where everyone knows each other you got into making your own music

also still pretty young and I think that's sort of a difference in you know there are a lot of people play instruments, but there aren't a lot that are like, oh, you know what, I'm going to start making songs. When did you start making songs? I remember in 2014, that was like a year after I, like, I'd been playing, like, guitar, like, officially for, like, over a year. And I just remember, like, I was writing bits and pieces here and there, but I never really, like,

fully finished a song. And then I saw this, I saw this, like, note. It was, like, a communal like space for like kids that like music or I don't know just needed a place to hang out I think I don't know what you call those things but it was like a like a youth area youth group thing yeah yes so I found this little yellow note that said like hey do you want to record your music uh there's here's a studio and then I kind of like I saw that known I was like wow I really would want to record my music and then like six months later I went into to that studio and recorded my first song. So that was, and that, that was like in early 2015, I ended up recording my first song. And then I put that song out on Spotify and SoundCloud.

So that was like, me, like, just like two, with like, within like two years of playing guitar, I was like, I want to create songs and I want to have like recordings of them. And I think like for my 15th birthday, which would have been 24, I also got like a Blue Yeti microphone and like a little apogee thing to record into my Mac, but I didn't understand it like the recording process. And it just made me really frustrated. So I never picked it up. But I 2015 first recorded song fell in love with my voice.

Never looked back. Wait. You're like the first person I've ever heard say they fell in love with their voice. Like the actual tone? No one likes to. But you loved hearing it? I loved hearing it. I was like, just like, I'd never heard like reverb on my voice before I heard that first draft back from the studio.

And it was so special to me. I still, I was in my ex-boyfriend's bed. And I was like, I was too scared to like play it out loud. So I was like putting it up to my ear like this. And I was like, I got full on goosebumps because I was like, who is this girl singing in this phone? And it was me. And I was just so. amazed by it. So I just absolutely

loved my own voice, which is so weird because I know, like you mentioned, I feel like no one likes their own voice. No, but I think that's what makes, you constantly try to get singers to be artists and they're, you know, that's like our catchphrase in our intros that there are millions of singers, there are thousands of artists and they're only 40 songs per genre at a time.

And you have, you know, for you to like your own voice means that you're identifying something unique in it. You know, like that's exciting. That's, do your friends and family, you know, were they streaming, were they going to SoundCloud? Like, how did you start, were you like, hey, check this out, listen to this thing? Or were you kind of shy about it?

it. Were you doing it alone? Did you have a team of people helping you? Well, no, it was just me and then the guy from the studio that I found from that yellow note, really. What was his name? The yellow, white, the studio name or his name? Yeah, his name. Well, his name was Frederick. And he was a very nice guy, probably like his early 30s, just a super music nerd dude. And, um, I was doing it pretty much all of my own, but I remember when I posted it,

like the song posted it on SoundCloud. I was like, I put it out on Instagram. I was like, I got my, like, my first songs out. And then I put it out on Facebook because that was like, I don't know, I didn't have an audience. So I only, I could only really share it to like my friends and family and like the people that followed me on Instagram, which was like 150 people.

So that's when I was always very, very proud. I was never like shy about it. I was always like, this song is so good. Everyone needs to hear it. And then eventually I was like, the song is so good because I got so much good feedback from it. I put it out on Spotify eventually later that year. But this is under a different name than Girl in Red. This is pre-Girl and Red, right? Yeah, this was Marie Olvin. This was when I still was using my own name. Why did you I mean you had even a name between that and Grown Red. Why not stick with just like I'm Marie? I don't know. I felt like it wasn't interesting anymore

because there was like this big wave in Norway of just having like your own name as your artist's name and a lot of people do that in some way. It's like really powerful. Like if you think of like John Mayer or like Taylor Swift, those are like huge names and like really powerful names. But like I just didn't feel that with my name. But also that's because like I wasn't at that scale either. But I don't know. I just like felt like this isn't interesting to me anymore. Like my own, my real name isn't interesting. So yeah. But I feel like yeah, then I just changed it to Girl in Red eventually. The idea of saying, like, oh, I just shared it with 150 people on Instagram, and now you have 2. something million followers is kind of insane, because it's easy to, it's easy as somebody who's just meeting you to be like,

wow, that's crazy. But when it's your life and you're seeing those numbers tick and add to it, it's got to be, I don't know, is it fulfilling? Like, what is the word? How would you describe that? Do you mean like seeing how things have changed and like growth and stuff? Yeah, I mean, that's pretty drastic. Like that's got to be, you know,

the entire population of Norway is probably less than 6 million people. So you know what I mean? Yeah. Like it's got to be about the same population or bigger than Oslo. Yeah. It's like, well, I think there's like 600,000 people living in Oslo. So it's like four times that. well I don't know it's like well I feel like now that you know I haven't been able to tour for very long but now I'm back on the road

I think my perception of numbers have kind of become like very like like I just haven't fully understood numbers recently because like what does having 12 million monthly listeners mean when you never see any of those people or an And you never experience any of those numbers in real life. You know what I mean? Totally. But now that I've been able to go on tour again, and like I was out, like I was buying a bagel yesterday, and this girl was like, has everyone ever told you you look like girl in red?

And I was like, the girl, like I was buying, and I was like, uh, that's me. I was just like, no, but that's me. And that was so weird. And then I was just trying on shoes somewhere. And this girl was like, are you girl in red? I was like, wow, Jesus Christ, Boston twice in a day. This is so random because I've never really been able to do this since things kind of got bigger and my album came out and stuff.

So I think it is a really drastic change now because even though getting recognized twice in a day isn't really like a gigantic thing, but not of my friends got recognized. It's like they're not a musician, but it's still like it is. How did you respond? How did you interact with those people? Like when you say, when you say like, yes, that's me, what do they, how do they respond? Oh, she was, she was just like, oh, okay, cool. I love your music. I'm a really big fan. And then she was like, can, I'm sorry, can you give me a name for the order? I don't know your name. And then I was like, it's Marie. That's fine. Don't worry about it. So she was, I honestly, I'm just kind of like, sometimes I'm like surprised that it happens,

but I can also kind of tell when it's happening because like you can tell when people are looking at you. But I'm just excited mostly. I'll just take a picture with someone and hope they have a good day. So there's a huge difference between releasing though for 150 people being like, I like this a lot. and like you said, you changed your name and, you know, I read your bio, so I know how the story happened. But

let's go with that, you know, why did you, the day you change your name, why do you change your name, besides no longer wanting it to be Marie? I had for like a longer period of time, not felt connected to my Norwegian project. So I felt like

I didn't, I wasn't getting any more like Norwegian lyric ideas. They were all coming to me in English and then I was like producing all my other stuff and it just felt like a new era for me. Like it felt like this is me trying to say something else than what I've been saying in my music for the past three years. So really what just happened that day was I just feel like it was me like finalizing the fact that like this is a new era for me. This is, I have new music and it sounds different and it's not real than music. It's girl and in red and I can feel that.

And there was just like, just had this like feeling that this was the right thing to do. And then I just changed it and put out, then I stayed in my room for a couple of days and I made my first English fully produced song, which was called You Used Me for My Love, which was not a very good song. But it was like the beginning of something. And yeah, just started from there. I mean, the first single, as Girl in Red is, I want to be your girlfriend.

And, you know, you said earlier when you first heard your voice, you know, here you are lying next to your boyfriend listening to it. There's clearly like a personal shift in that process too. And then being able to, you know, in a way, it's like, I'm sure that I don't know if you were out before that you released that song, but the idea of releasing that song along with a new artist project, it

feels like it's the kind of thing that you would hope an artist would have the strength to do, is to actually be like, this is me and then have such a cool way to say that. Did you find that to be vulnerable or cathartic?

Well, I was, when I put, I want to be your girlfriend. out. That was like 2017 first. I put it on SoundCloud first and then it came out on Spotify eventually when I when I realized that people liked it. But I think I was I was out by then because I had had a girlfriend but I was never like I never talked about it anywhere and she was a very she had reasons to why we had to keep our relationship very private. So I it wasn't really on social media either. So for some people, I guess they, some people knew some people didn't. But I think people definitely knew when I put that song out.

And also I started doing interviews about it. And then I was like coming out openly everywhere in Norway and then like in other magazines here in the States and shit. So for me, it was just kind of like it wasn't anything really. It was just like live continuing, honestly. Yeah. Was your family and friends, I assume that they were all supportive.

It seems like you're well supported. Yeah, I've been, my mom has been very supportive and my dad is more supportive now than he ever, than he was before. He was kind of, he was like, are you a pride girl? What's going on? Like, are these people you're hanging out with? He wasn't really a big, like he didn't really understand it.

at first. But he is definitely more supportive now. And he's like, you know, don't let any girls break your heart. He's kind of warmed up to it a lot, which is nice. It takes some time for some people, which is weird because it's like your daughter, but it's fine now. So I think definitely the fact that I've been able to just put this stuff out without having any like personal consequences has definitely, you know,

made it all very much safe and good for me. The song really kind of takes off as far as do-it-yourself songs go. When you first release it, going back to that thing of watching numbers go from zero to whatever it's at now, how did that feel now being like a new project and then seeing like, oh, this is a,

different level than the music you were doing that was in Norwegian. Did it make you, how did that change your perspective as a songwriter? Do you mean like how, like, if I felt like the newer music had like more like artistic depth to it and therefore like people were reacting to it or do you mean like just seeing that people were listening to it more? I don't know, maybe both. I mean, like I don't know if it has more artistic depth. To be honest, like I started, I didn't.

didn't listen to the music that you did before Girl in Red. So, you know. Don't do it. Is it, is it something that you tell people not to do? Or is it something that like, you kind of, I don't know. I joke around with it. Like, don't listen to it. It's so bad.

But, like, I'm very proud of it because it's out there. It's a part of my history, kind of. So I, but I just joke around with how bad it is because it is bad. But I'm so proud, you know, because I was, I, I put it out. But I definitely, well, when I first put out, I want to be a girlfriend. Like, no one really listened to that song up until, like, five months later or something. So, like, that song had, like, 5,000 streams.

And I was, like, promoting it on a new Instagram eventually, because I had this, like, side Instagram from my normal Marie Oven Instagram, where I was, like, Marie Oven the finger border, which there are so many levels to this, how things kind of happened. but I had this fingerboard Instagram because I used to be a very professional fingerboarder and I used to promote it there and I used to get a lot of positive reactions there

like DMs and stuff. So I was very excited about all the positive feedback I was getting that I maybe hadn't felt like I had gotten before plus like my mom, she loved my new music and I was like I feel like no one said to me like, I didn't like this, but also like who would ever do that. Like in retrospect, like, if my friend, even like if my closest friend sends me something, they want me to listen to, I'm like, it's very hard to be completely honest with someone

when they send you creative work. So it just felt different because a little bit more of people were commenting on my music. But then it shit really hit the fan when it got reposted on it, YouTube in 2018, January, 18, 4th of January. I got my first DM of someone saying that they found a song and it's so good. I bet that, I mean, a lot of people have get, you know, hey, that sounds really good.

It doesn't blow up the way that this did. Why did it take five months? Like, what was the moment that it was like, oh, no, everyone. I think it was like, I bet someone probably just found it on SoundCloud and then they reposted it on YouTube. And then another account reposted it. as well. So, like, there were two people were posting it my song on YouTube at the same time almost.

I think it was, like, the third and the fourth of January. They reposted it. And one, and then I was like, I was, like, I found out about this and I was, like, refreshing it. And I was just, like, seeing how the numbers were growing. And then I, I reached out to this, like, distributor. And I was like, hey, I feel like I have a momentum coming. Like, I want to put this stuff out. And then I also Also, I put out my other song, Summer Depression, like a month later after the song started to blow up because I was like, I have more music to put out. People are listening. I want to have more stuff for them to listen to. So I put that out.

And then that one Instagram that reposted my song also reposted the Summer Depression song. And then that blew up. And I was like, okay, I need to put that song on Spotify as well. and then I put them all out in early March 2018. And that's when people started listening immediately on Spotify. I remember even the first day I had like 4,000 monthly listeners. And I was like, wow, never had this many monthly listeners in my life. Wait, how in like a practical sense were you putting it up?

Like it's not like you didn't have a label, you were just doing it. Were you just doing that tune core? How are you uploading these songs? I was using a distributor called, it was called Dato, d-i-t-t-o.com. It was like, upload your own song type of thing. So I did that.

When did people start coming by being like, let me help you, let me manage you, let me be your agent. I want to, you know, before you get to, you know, even AWOL as your newest partner, Like, who were the, the industry starts noticing you sometime in the last two years, three years. You know, how do people, who starts reaching out to you first?

The first people that started reaching out to me were right before, were like some Norwegian labels right before the songs came out. So like maybe mid-February, 2018. And the songs came out like 3rd of March or something. And I remember I met one guy. We had like a beer and well I was getting emails like hey do you want to go out for a coffee do want to go out for a beer and like talk music and I was like I don't understand why all these people want to have coffee like what is going on because I just wasn't into like networking chat

at all but I remember that my first meeting one guy he was like I want you to not put the music out through ditto and I want you to put it out through me and I was like hell no like don't tell me what to do. Like, I barely know you. And I'm so happy I didn't end up doing anything with that guy. Because, like, we just had, like, a handshake at the end of the meeting. It was, like, great talking. And then he was, like, literally harassing me for so long. He was, like, so much for a handshake. He was, like, messaging me all these things to make me feel really bad and guilty for not ending up working with him, which just, again, proves I made a good decision not working with him. But that's, like, it all started in February. And then I met my manager.

year in March, I think, or maybe like, maybe April. And I was very skeptic because he wanted to help out. And I was like, why the fuck do you want to help me? I was kind of like, it was like, I'll help you get printed some vinyl because that was like one thing I really wanted to get when I was younger. And I was like, who are you? Why do you want to help me? And then eventually I warmed up to him as well. And then now we're still working together. He's my best friend. He's so cool. I feel like there are, what's his name? His name is Ben Blackburn.

He was an ANR at Atlantic and he was like, he emailed me and I was like, hey, I work for Atlantic. I really want to meet you. Then I did like, I had a very long day of meetings in Oslo and I met him at the very end. And he was like, don't sign to anything. It's so much easier getting into something that it is getting out. Just take a moment. Your music will remain as. interesting as good and people will not want to stop people people will see your music grow and they

will not stop wanting to sign you so you need to don't because that's every every new artist think they need to think they're hot shit for only a small period of time and every new artist need to should view their music as currency and like as value and as something that they shouldn't be like I need you. It should always be the opposite. So when he said that, I was like, that makes so much sense. Like, all these people are like begging me to, like, not do things. And like, already, because they, they see that I'm, I've never had a foot in the music industry before. So they want to, you know, they want to play on that weakness. So after he said that, I didn't sign to anyone, did all the label meetings, didn't sign to anyone. And then I eventually said,

signed way later to AWOL. I mean, one, that's probably some of the savviest advice I've ever heard on this podcast. Because I think we forget on both sides. Because I would imagine most people who get an offer from, even if it's, you know, over a coffee and get a record deal, they're texting their parents on the way home being like,

I made it, you know, and they're going to, like, that was, that the goal is that, not, you know, not like what happens to the songs, but the goal is more to get the record deal. Everyone hears about, oh, I'm, you know, I got signed and they think that that's the goal versus like, no, the goal is, that's when you've made it. If it's like you post a picture with someone, like,

you know, I've seen like, a lot of people from Norway like doing like the whole like I just signed to this label they get so much likes and response and all that shit but I'm like okay but the label you signed to it's like I don't know I feel like

so many a lot of people especially like if you're a young artist and you see like a check like an advance for $10,000 people will be like lose their shit but like your music is worth so much more than $10,000 and more

and you shouldn't be getting like 20% of your music royalties and then like 80% to some other major label or honestly indie labels too they like to take huge cuts of like indie labels are you know they they can be pretty bad honestly any label can have a bad deal it's not really about that if whether it's a small or a big label anymore it's like it's just how much currency do you have or like value do you have to put into the deal so you can get what you want, which is why I'm very glad I waited a very long time because my value just increased, increased, increased until I signed my first deal. And then, you know, that was a very short-term deal because I don't want to feel, you know, tied down. And I've always just had short deals. Well, it's also a different kind of thing. I mean, explain for people who don't know what AWOL is, what AWOL is. So, AWOL is essentially, like, a distributor, but it's also, I think you need to apply for a partnership or you can get signed by them. I met up with an A&R there. His name was Will Hunt, and he was like, you know, love your music,

blah, blah, we had all the chat. And then I met up with the team and I was like, okay, this feels like a right next step for me because it wasn't too, like, it was still very much, I will do everything on my own terms. So AWOL literally stands for a world artist loves or love or something. So it's very artist focus. And I think that's really important. And I think I would totally recommend AWOL for any artist. I just left AWOL for Colombia.

But that's because I felt like I'd reached my ceiling. And like what, like, AWOL is really good at helping smaller artists, come find their identity and help them come to where I feel like I'm at right now. Just like either way I could stay here or I could go further with another label. So that's what I want to do. But I'm so grateful for it all and I really recommend it to anyone who want to start out somewhere. There are two quotes that this stuff makes me think of. One being that it's, you know, I think of this in music education.

where it's like you're trying to teach yourself how not to get screwed, but it's more valuable to know how you're getting screwed. Yeah. You know, when you go into a deal, like, and the other thing being that you're doing a deal with someone because they want something from you. Yeah. So, like, it's the same sort of thing,

but going into a deal, they're still doing a calculation how they can eventually be profitable, this partnership. And then what you said so eloquently is that we all reach some sort of ceiling. And the question is, can you do it on your own? Yeah. Will it take longer?

Maybe. Is, you know, can you do it with this other company? Yeah, probably. But it'll just be different. It'll be a different path. And you start figuring like, okay, well, what label can, really tie things together to break through those ceilings that we naturally run into because you're just one person with one manager probably doing most of that with AWOL.

Yeah. You know, so it makes sense. When Columbia reaches out to you, you know, this is a, your deal is very public in the music industry. I think people were really excited by it. because the industry was fans of what you were doing. Why that moment and why that label? Well, me and Ben, we did a whole bunch of meetings.

We met with AWOL because we wanted to give everyone a chance, and we were very transparent with that. So we met with AWOL, and we told AWOL that Marie is doing meetings with other labels and other potential partners for the next album. I met up with RCA, Interscope, like Virgin Records, like all these like capital, literally so many Atlantic. I met up with so many labels. And eventually we were left with Atlantic, no, not Atlantic, but Introscope and Columbia. And I think both parties know that now.

but so I mean there's no really no secret but and we sent the deal we wanted like we had carefully crafted a deal over a very long period of time with my lawyer and ben and then which is still a very artist focused type of deal and it's still very much like I want things to happen on my terms and when we sent that to Columbia they were like okay fine like Marie will get what she wants uh And just like with small tweaks here and there, obviously. But Interscope wanted to negotiate quite a lot, like add another album, et cetera. And it was just like, I don't know, very big bits of, it was just a very different response. And me and Ben have always talked about like all of these labels are capable. Like that's not the question. It's also kind of just like they're all capable. but how can we ensure that, you know, we take care of your art and your music the best way as possible?

And how can we can, you know, make sure that you can keep making music the exact way you want to do it? And that's why we just eventually ended up with Columbia. I was having doubts about Columbia as well. Like, I had doubts about Inderscope and Columbia. But, you know, you kind of, that's like the risk taking of just, like, moving on into something you don't know what is. but I Yeah I mean that's any relationship That was the relationship you had with Ben

That was the relationship with everybody Like you know We all are like that Even in personal relationships You know It's like at some point you take You take a leap of faith Did serotonin come out on Columbia

Or did it come before the Columbia I came before Columbia So I haven't done anything with Columbia I signed to Columbia like a month ago So it's very new Oh wow Okay Yeah, it's very new.

And so AWOL is still promoting my album. And I'm not really, like I haven't started my official working relationship with Columbia. But I've, you know, met with the team several times. And they came to my show just in New York playing two nights at the Brooklyn Steel. They came out. That was nice. And, yeah, I think it's a. a good next step.

Yeah, I think so too. Serotonin's frustrating because it's one of those songs that I wish I wrote and I don't really have those very often. Thanks. It's really good. It's really frustrating. It's like you can't help but listen to it a lot

and just say it's so it's like it's simple but it's not but it just feels like it's so hard as a songwriter to be unique and simple. And, like, of course, we all should have been able to write that. And yet, it's smart and it's intricate.

But it's, I don't know. How did you guys write that? Were you writing it with Phineas and Matias? Or was it something that you wrote and then they produced? Like, how did that song come about? So I started producing the song first. And then I wrote the song. and then I produced it with Matthias for a period of time.

And then we really knew that it was a really cool song. And then we have so many versions of it. It took forever to make it. But the version 3, which is the one I ended up using, is the one I sent to Phineas. And he added like some percussion stuff, some melody stuff. But like the song was really there. But he definitely added it.

He gave like some cool like gritty sounds to it, which is really cool. But like the whole idea was was there. And like even from the first drafts that I have, I did a tape notes podcast about this a while ago. But it was initially always like the core was always there. And now it's just like it's like fully transatlantic. formed into this really cool song, which, by the way, I feel like, oh, this song is so simple. I should have been able to write this. I have that with other songs, too, and it's really frustrating. It's like, yeah, so that's like the best songwriter compliment you can really

give to anyone, I think. Yeah, I think I've given that compliment like less than 10 times in my life. So there you go. Take that, put it in your hat or your pocket. Do you have any Do you have any social life now that you're on tour and doing all that? Do you have any personal life? I mean, I always have my personal life, but I mean, it's not very present here, I guess. It's like, I don't know, I'm in this hotel room by myself. I was watching Andy Warhol documentary videos stuff last night, which was very moving. I'm not sure if you've seen it.

The one on Netflix? Yeah, it's really good. I'm not a big fan of Andy Warhol's art, but it's just really special seeing, like reading his diary and stuff. But I don't really... Who are you a fan of, art-wise? Like, art-wise?

Yeah. I don't know, mostly, like, Norwegian contemporary artists. I feel like I'm not, like, a huge, like... I don't know. I'm very much into the art scene in Norway. I don't really know what's happening here in the States, but...

Yeah. So I'm like, I wouldn't say like, oh yeah, I'm such a big fan of Monet. Like, I'm not, but like I admire, like, they do cool stuff. But it's like also, I don't know. I just like seeing up-and-coming artists. And I like to buy paintings too. So I'm hoping to be a great collector one day. There you go.

Yeah. Not this painting, though. this is not it. Yeah, I know. People probably won't be able to see that, but you know what's weird about hotel art? I will say, like, because it's all based on, it's all based on like, I think that there's a, what was the name, Rauschenberg? Rauschenberg, I think, is the artist where if you look them up, it all looks like that artwork, but it's not because it's Rauschenberg. And it's like there's, there are some of these things where you'll go and you'll find like the, you know,

the hotel version of Oh yeah This Doesn't it totally look like that? Yeah, this is this I'm looking at one with like JFK And it

Yeah, that's It literally looks like all hotels I've ever Like they're all It's always like kind of like I don't know It's like fake mix Fake mixed media Kind of

Yeah You know It's so bad Okay, okay, next, our next segment is a five for five. I'm going to list five things and just tell me the first thing that comes off the top of your head. I felt like the first one I should ask is, is Hannah, whoever that is in your... Hannah? That was...

I don't even know who it is. That's a... Is it called Cito? No, what's like a name? like pseudonym. A pseudonym. Yeah, pseudonym. Yeah. For a girl called Sandra, who I was in love with.

So she was in my class, so I just felt like I couldn't be like, oh, Sandra. So it was oh, Hannah. So that's how that. Does she know before this moment? I don't know. I've said this thing before, but I just feel like she wouldn't be watching this content. or like listening to any videos or podcast or anything. So I feel like she doesn't know.

But also like I don't care anymore. I'm not in love with her. So it's fine. There you go. Shout out to Sandra. Matthias. Matias Tellis, my good friend and my collaborator. Yeah.

Very cute guy. He has a baby now. He just bought a new house. He's settling into his 30s in a very elegant. Cool. Ben, your manager. Ben, my manager, is that we said? Yeah. What I think of when I hear his name.

Yeah. He landed in Manhattan the other day and flew. No, he landed. He landed at some airport, flew in from the airport in a fucking helicopter and landed in Manhattan. That's what I'm thinking of. The most manager thing I could ever imagine anyone doing. Yeah, they have that shuttle now at JFK

And it's like if you fly in if you land at JFK in the middle of traffic It sure is enticing to just be like I'll hop on a helicopter and cut off an hour of year Especially because it lands like kind of on the west side and you can be You tried it going to I haven't done it because I I just haven't done it yet But I'm intrigued enough that I know that I mean I totally get it if you travel a lot and you fucking hate travel than I can, and it's like $150.

I mean, it's not even that expensive to fly a helicopter. I thought it would be much more expensive, like thousands of dollars. Yeah. But it was like... I definitely think it's more than $150. If he got $150, that guy is getting a deal, or it's come down a lot. It's possible it has. $150, it's cheaper than a cab ride from JFK now.

Jesus. I don't even know. Why not? I have my tour manager. He has my credit card and he just... Yeah, exactly. It just waves it around and somebody pulls up. All right, let's go with your dad. My dad.

He's a weird dude. I don't know. We don't have a really good relationship. But I've settled with that. That's okay now. I used to be like, oh, my God, I don't have a good relationship to my dad. But now I'm like, it's fine that we just talk about my Tesla and his boat. that's fine yeah so I think the moment

you let go of wanting to have a good relationship to someone that you obviously can't have a good relationship to and just take that relationship you have with them for what it is that's when you come to terms with something I think what about your mom best friend

she's my best friend she is my cliff or something is that what you say I don't know sure Why not? She really, she is very much like me. And I love her so much. And we have a really good relationship.

So, and I'm so grateful for her. She's also really cute. She thinks she can go on tour with me. She saw the Billy Eilish documentary. And she's like, I want to go and tour with you. I want to make sure my baby girl is totally fine all the time. And I'm like, Mom, you would never be able to sleep on the bus. And she's like, I haven't slept for 25 years because that's how long she's had kids for.

and I'm like, girlie, that's not it. You're not going to be able to sleep on the bus. I can't even sleep on the bus. Yeah, sleeping on a bus is really funny. It's like every time there's a sharp turn, you're like, oh, this is where I'm going to roll off and die. Or it's like, you're like, there's always a bump and you're like, what is that? I slept in the back of the bus last night, and I literally, the road was so bumpy.

I swear to God, I had a little takeoff there in the back. It's really bus sleeping is something else. It's just enough sleep to get to the hotel room if you're fortunate enough. That's at least enough sleep to get through a tour. Do you think touring's like is everything you hoped it would be? Oh, were you going to say glamorous? Because damn, it's not. I was going to say that.

Everyone thinks it is, especially if you have a bus. And it's like, yeah, I was going to say that. But do you think it's like, is it what you hoped it would be? Well, I've done a van tour also and then we had to like check in at, I don't even know if I like the van tour more than I like the bus tour because I was sleeping when I did the van tour, but also I was sitting still all the time. But I don't know, it's not a very glamorous thing.

It's, you know, you shower in dirty places and you don't even want your feet to touch the ground and it's like it's I don't think it's good to never feel like fully comfortable in a place and just feel like you can relax somewhere and it is just a lot of hard work and you know you don't you don't have your stuff with you like people sleep with their stuff in the bunks and it's like it's not really that glamorous but I'm obviously really grateful to be able to do it on this level. Like I have an assistant with me now. That's something I was like, I need more help on tour. So that's in some way, that's kind of like, you know, an extra perk I have. Are you writing on the road? Are you writing in the bus?

Do you have? I just ordered for this tour. I ordered like a mini, mini studio. So I am writing on this tour actually. I produced this little beat the other day. Is it good? Is it not? I don't know. but you know you got to keep trying got to look for the gold totally I guess my last two questions are are you you write a lot of stuff by yourself

do you ever want to collaborate and or write for other artists I think I could do that at some point but right now I'm very much in my like I wrote my entire album by myself and I wrote I've written every single song by myself so right now I'm very much much like I want to write stuff for me.

But I think when I feel like I'm kind of done with that or something, it'll be cool to produce for other people or to write for other people or just like even just have a little bit of something to do with someone's record, I think it could be fun. Thank you for doing the podcast. We had never met before this, but I'm obviously very familiar with your work. work because it's one of those things that people, you try to explain this to artists that

who go out there looking for a manager and looking for a label, looking for these things. The time to find those people are when they come to you. And you're creating music that people are talking about behind your back. It's not you having to drive the conversation. It's that you're creating music that you love. And then people are like, hey, you've got to hear this. this is actually really good. Check this out.

And you're doing it in that's such an authentic way. And not everybody has that skill set. Not everybody's that fortunate to see the world in such a unique way. And you're earning all of this. And it's just, it's, I'm, you know, it's weird for me to say, like, I'm proud of you because I don't know you that. But like there's a lot of people who are proud of. of people who are young in the business

who are taking control of their career and you're doing it in such a classy way and it's just impressive so thank you for doing the podcast and I hope that we have we catch up in a year and a half from now after your next album is

number one on all these charts. Oh, we'll see. I mean that would have been really cool. That's like the most exciting part of this is like I really don't know what's the next thing and you don't know how things are going to go. This might be the peak, but then if it is, then like, okay, whatever, then we'll figure out

something else. But it's still insane thinking we don't know what's going to happen. But that's also just life in general. But it depends what your goals are. If your goals are like, you can't guarantee that you're going to have number one songs that do a lot of things. But you can pretty much look at even just analytics and know, okay, well, more people continue to notice your artistry

and so they'll support your next album. You're clearly on an upward trajectory as long as you just release music that you're proud of. Yeah, I think that's... Everyone's going to check it out. I think that's what I can control. It's like what I put out.

And I've always put out music I'm really proud of. So I think I'm just going to stick to my gut feeling because I think I have a good one so you're just going to keep making stuff but I really appreciate you having me on the podcast. Hopefully the sound isn't terrible

and I'll send you the recording and stuff and I hope you have a good day man there you too play some of those guitars in the back this episode is produced by Joe London Hypnosis management and myself. Shout out Paige McDonald, Kelly Fox, Casey Robinson, David Silberstein, Tim Kirch, and Zach Weinstein. See you all next week. I'm Ross Golan, signing off.