And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan - Ep. 158: Theron Thomas (Rock City)

Episode Date: July 25, 2022

Today’s guest is a singer-songwriter born of Caribbean roots with records that have entertained masses for over 15 years and his momentum has yet to stop. His talents touch the core elements of a hit record; whether he’s lighting up the stage as a performer or writing and producing your favorite top-charting hit. As a native of St. Thomas, VI; he first entered the music industry as one half of powerhouse duo R.City, alongside his brother. The road to becoming a world-renowned artist and songwriter isn’t always as smooth as one may hope. The brothers arrived in the US with only $35 to their name, sleeping in studios and on the MARTA (Atlanta’s public transportation); but their mindset remained ambitious. At 25yrs old, our guest and his brother Timothy signed their first deal with Akon propelling them into the next stage in their career, making hits. While signed to Akon, the Thomas brothers’ catalog grew and the potential for producing #1 records became a reality. R.City penned Mario's "Music For Love", Sean Kingston “Take You There” and Pussycat Dolls “When I Grow Up”; as well as music for Janet Jackson, Chris Brown, Flo Rida, and Usher. Later R.City signed to RCA and Dr. Luke and this relationship led to popular songs that dominated radio by Ciara, Beyonce, Nikki Minaj, Rhianna, Miley Cyrus and many more. Now, after years of success he continues to produce grammy award-winning projects like Grammys 2020 Best Contemporary Album  “Cuz I Love You” by Lizzo, #1 Rhythmic Radio Hits like "Best Friend" by Saweetie & Doja Cat and "Big Energy" by Latto. 4x Grammy-winning songwriter and strategic businessman, our guest has merely scratched the surface of his capabilities. And The Writer Is… Theron Thomas from Rock City! Watercolor by: Michael Richey White Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to And The Writer Is with Ross Golan. There are millions of singers, thousands of artists, and only 40 songs per genre at a time. These are the stories of the hottest creatives, the most venerable legends, artists, songwriters, executives, and more. Come join our Discord, follow our socials, and share your music with the And the Writer is community. We'll see you all there, and now, here's this week's episode. Hey, what's up? It's Paige MacDonald, and this is your weekly music industry update. The 2 million members of U.S. digital music distribution platform Disho Kidd can have their credits added to the global database of Jaxda after the two companies signed a data partnership agreement on July 19th. TikTok is reported to have started laying off some of its staff in the U.S. and is preparing to let go more workers in Europe.

Ricardo Taco has joined Live Nation to lead the company's Latin music strategy. for its concerts division across Canada. YouTube has joined in a partnership with Shopify in an effort to expand e-commerce tools for creators. United Talent Agency has secured fresh funding from private equity firm EQT as a part of a strategic partnership aimed at accelerating UTA's growth trajectory, and as a result, EQT has required a minority stake in the talent agency. Chris Hirsch has been named SVP of Music Operations and Marketing at Create Music Group. Sony Music Publishing UK has signed Grammy Award-winning artist, songwriter, producer, and composer, Danger Mouse, to a worldwide publishing deal.

Hypnosis Songs Fund has published its full year financial results for the 12 months to end of March, which revealed a value of $140 million. BMG has acquired the publishing catalog of Jean-Michel Jarre. The Metaverse Studio Mellon has raised $5 million after creating Roblox experiences for KSI, Zara Larson, and more. Jonathan Rotheri will be returning to BBC in the newly created position of Head of Pop Music TV. The blockchain streaming platform, Audius, has released functionality, enabling its music community to tip their favorite artists. Tap Music has announced their signing of Grammy-winning producer and mixer Rich Costi. A big thank you to Hannah Rosenberg of Megahouse for gathering today's news. Now stay tuned for this week's episode of Anne The Writer is.

Guys, listen up. Last year we started working with LAMP. It's a school called Los Angeles Academy for artists and music production. It's run by and founded by Stargate. Their mentor list is nuts. It's, you know, Benny Blanco, Tommy Brown, Tenache, Emily Warren, John Cunningham, you know, a bunch of people who've been guests on this show. So obviously we're fans of them.

and this school has been amazing. And I wanted to bring them back this year so they can tell you an update on how LAMP is going and ways for you guys to get involved in LAMP. Tor, dude, good to catch up. It has been a very strange time in the last year, but you guys are still trucking through and it's even growing and growing.

So I just want you to tell everybody, you know, what's going on? How's the school going? Well, as you know, Ross, the LAMP is a one-year high-level music program. We're in Santa Monica, California, and we have a site with 48 students. They collaborate, write music, produce every single day. And we started this last year. We're just graduating our first class, and we're doing admissions for the next year now.

And just the level of music that's coming out of this place is mind-blowing. We thought it was going to be hard to get people up to professional level. but people came in with a growth mindset and they're already at a professional level. So these guys are ready to go out because we create a real world environment where it's just like being in a writing session. We pair producers with songwriters and artists and we write songs every single day. Then we break them down once a week. Focus on the songwriting, focus on the performance, the production, the beats, are the beats hitting, are the titles great? Are the melodies distinct? Is it memorable?

What can we do to make it better? And that's the type of feedback you don't get in the industry, right? No one's ever going to tell you what you can do to your song to make it better. They just won't call you back. We have a program where it feels like the real world, but you get professional feedback from the best mentors in the game. I mean, I can't imagine if we would have had this when we were coming up, just the ability to not only meet some of the people that you have coming in,

but the ability to actually get that feedback is priceless because it took most of us a lot of not-so-good songs. Exactly. I mean, when we started LAMP, the mission was, what can we give to the next generation that took us years to learn? What are the things that we wish we knew when we started out that we can tell people? So there's no formula, but there's definitely certain key principles

that never change in storytelling, and melody and song structure, and all these key things to take your song from good to great, which is what it's all about. You know, it's not about having a bunch of good songs. It's about having those few that are great. So tell me, if I'm a student and I come to Santa Monica to be at the school, what would a day look like for me?

Well, typical days that we have mentors or workshop holders in the morning. We show up at 10 a.m. every day. And then by 3 p.m., you're in the studio. We have 16 writer rooms where we have, you know, it's fully ad decked out with microphones and monitors and keyboards and everything. People bring their own, you bring your own laptop, and then you write songs and create music and try to make magic happen every day. That's our day and that's our week. If I can't get to Santa Monica, is there any way for me to still learn from school? I assume not every student comes to Santa Monica.

Is there an online? Yes, we have an online program, which is just as big as, if not bigger than the on-site, which is you get the same content. We share all the mentors, we share all the workshops, we put people in groups. So you zoom or you FaceTime in with your group that week, you create songs, you exchange files. We teach you how to record your own vocals, if you don't know how to do that. We teach you how to exchange beats, text over music, and then send that back and create a song. by the end of the week, deliver it on Friday and get feedback. Actually, you deliver it on Saturday

now because some of the students had jobs, so we want to accommodate for that. Finish their song on Saturday and the following week you get feedback from our listening panel. Awesome. So admissions open now. How would I apply? You only get in by going to lampmusic.com and sharing your music. You don't need a degree. You don't need necessarily formal education. You only need talent. And the ambition and the will to get better. So go to lamp music. That's L-A-A-A-M-P-Music.com. You share your music. We listen to your music and we reach out, set up in the interview and we'll take it from there.

Tor, congratulations on, you know, keeping this going. You know, I just think you and Mekyll are, have been mentors of mine in many ways. And I've just, I'm so envious of these kids that they get to do it. So congratulations. Thank you so much, Roth. All right, man. All right. Thank you.

Welcome to Am the Writer is. I am your host, Ross Golan. Today's SmashCrafter, I've never said that before, but I like it. Today's SmashCrafter is one half of the legendary duo Rock City. This guys come from the projects of St. Thomas to writing for dozens of the biggest artists in the world, including names like Beyonce, Rihanna.

Miley, Jehud, Nikki, Ariana, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Having defied the odds, his team has influenced the game for over a decade contributing to a number of Grammy-nominated and multi-platinum albums, which of course opened the door for their own artist career, which is also very successful. From Atlanta, Georgia, well, in Atlanta, Georgia, something like that, this musician is an absolute industry favorite. And the writer is Rock City's

Tyron Thomas. Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. You don't know. Do you always wear chains that beautiful on like a Friday? Oh, yeah, yeah. I don't wear my, honestly. So I recently just got my chains.

This is something I've always wanted as a kid. And I finally got them made. So this is a Virgin Islands thing. If you notice, every chain is a Gucci link. If you know anybody from where I'm from, St. Thomas, St. Croix and John Tartola, literally they would have one of these on. You could be like, yo, are you from the Virgin Islands? Chances are they'll be like, how did you know the chase?

That's incredible. Why is that a Virgin Islands thing? Man, as kids just growing up, man, everybody, Gucci Links are just always been a thing. Goals, boys, like little kids, grown-ups. but it really come from like drug dealer culture, you know, and, you know, growing up in poverty and St. Thomas and just seen all of the dope boys with these. When I was a kid, I was like, yo, when I grow up, I'm going to get ease.

And, you know, I get him. First of all, congratulations. They're beautiful and you've earned them. Let's talk about growing up, you know, it's not that, It's not the biggest island. It's not the, it's not the most, like, it's a unique place to grow up. Why was your family in St. Thomas to begin with?

What are your parents, you know, why, how did you end up there? My parents both are from St. Thomas. My father was born in Puerto Rico, in San Juan, Puerto Rico, but his dad is from Tortola. His mom was also from the British Virgin Islands. And he was born in Puerto Rico, but raised in St. Tamos. My mom, her parents was from, my grandmother is from St. Kitts. And my grandfather from Nivas.

And my mother was born in St. Thomas. She has nine sisters, one brother. Yeah. So, you know, a bunch of aunties and cousin. My father really grew up different. He kind of didn't know his mom or his dad. He grew up with his stepmom. And then we met his real mom later on in life.

And he had a brother and two sisters. When you grew up, did you grow up with all the cousins nearby? Were you guys all just? A lot of us, yeah, a lot of us grew up on St. Thomas. So, you know, and my mom's side of the family, so a lot of me and my cousins definitely growing up was really close. My aunt Natalie was like, I would say, my second mom and her daughter, the closest thing that me and my brother have to her sister, Oshana. And I had my two other cousins, Callie and Kelly. What is it like growing up in St. Thomas?

You know, I mean, I feel like I don't understand. and people were brought up in Atlanta and L.A. And obviously all the U.S. cities. St. Thomas, you grew up there, you either think of it as a vacation town or you think of it not as a vacation town. Yeah. And the funny part, nothing about St. Thomas was vacation for me until I grew up and became successful.

So, yo, my father, me and my brother, our dad, he went to prison for five years. he was a garbage man. We used to live in the house that my mom was raised in, a two-bedroom, but by the time we got in it, me, my mom,

my dad and my brother, it was a shock. So holes in the floor. You ever seen Oka, Sorry, Miss Jackson video? Yeah. Literally that house, but the outside was green.

We lived in a house light off. The bathroom was outside. You know, we used to need like candles and stuff for lights. And, you know, we definitely was there until the funny part is we were so poor there that when our father found us the apartment in the projects where we actually was raised it was an upgrade for us we taught like

we was literally like oh my god look at the floor it doesn't have holes in it is so clean oh my god it's like this is the nicest place i've ever seen in my life and it's like my boy you in the projects my boy But coming from, you know, coming from where we had come from, it was definitely an upgrade. And we was raised in a project actually known as well Harris, as well Harris court, but everybody in St. Thomas de Cal where we come from housing.

You know, like y'all would say public housing. We don't just, yeah, we're from a place named housing. If you say, yo, where you from? And I'm saying, yo, where are you from housing? He from where you from. Did your parents play music? No. My mother, my father, they don't know anything about music.

They would play. My father had a little record player, and he would play records in the house, you know, hip-hop. You know, it's so funny growing up, we listen to more roots reggae, steel pulse, black whoroo, Bob Mali, the Waylon's, obviously, you know, Peter Tash stuff like that. But we didn't get into dance all until we start to go to school with our friends. And, you know, all the hood kids and, you know, they're listening to dance all. But my parents really were into Eric B and Rakim, Rabin, Rabez, which is the first consort that I've ever been to in my life was Rabes in St. Thomas.

And I never forget that. but I'll say my father introduced me and my brother to hip-hop. And we really start out as like dancers. You know, back then hip-hop, everybody was doing the running man, the cabbage patch, the all that. Well, we used to be backup dancers for a local rock group named Roxanne and Cody, these two girls. And we were there dancers. But we was like... Were you always dancing growing up?

Yeah, we were six. listen, I, like, I'm not going to say I'm a dancer now because Ali's new dances, it's just too much, too much movement for me at this point. But when I was a kid, my brother was six, I was seven, and we was definitely really, really into the dance. It wasn't until Chris Cross came out that me and my brother was like, what? You mean we can do you know and

we was like, yo, we want to be them. I remember I got a whooping for wearing my pants backwards for my aunt dead serious. I didn't do know my pants is backwards. My aunt is like boy stop wearing your pants like that you look stupid. I were like nah auntie this is cool. This is this shit auntie.

She's like boy put your pants and it was like when that when that album came out I feel like we're probably about the same age. Like anybody, when that album came out, it was like, oh, wow, you could, it like gave, I don't know, it felt like it felt like it was an invitation to be. It felt like it was an invitation to hip-hop. For me, it was like, yo, little kid, join this thing. You could do this, you know?

And we were just like, from that moment, me and my brother was hypnotized and, my father were like cool if this is something you guys want to do cool and we became a group and our first name was Short Circuit never movie we were not from the shot socket

Johnny 5 is alive one of them you know right yeah for sure classic no no you know no relation at all that's that's just a name that we came up with and my father met some guys who was like,

yo, we manage and we could help your kids. And we was, we was doing a show in Tartola. We performed

and we were supposed to, if you won, you would get to go to the states to perform and the Apollo. Well, we didn't win, but these guys was like, yo, we want to manage you guys.

And, well, they managed us, but then we get into this big beef and contractually, I guess they owned our name and we couldn't be shot. Sock it.

So my father was like, yo, I don't call you guys two equip. This is right when, like, you know, he's like, your name will be too equipped. And we became two equipped and we became extremely popular in the Virgin Islands as two equipped. Like, we became the biggest group ever as far as hip-hop is concerned because there was nothing like us. How old were you at that time? 11. I was 11.

My brother was 10 or 12 and 11, something like that. Were you writing everything? We didn't start right until the first song I ever wrote. I was 12. My brother was 11. I remember it too because it was this song called Fresh. And so y'all have hip-hop battles, y'all have battles, like rap battles. Well, where we come from an in a rap battle is call a chant out, like a chant out.

It's not called a hip-hop battle. So we used to have chant-outs. So that's how we got in the door doing like dance hall. freestyles. And, you know, I used to, and then my English teacher at the time was like, she introduced me to poetry and I used to write these poems. And my dad was like, yo, you can write songs, you can write songs. And the guy that used to write our song name was Gibson, high school kid, right?

Really amazing writer, right? And my dad was like, but then he was like, yo, I don't want to write songs. I don't want to write songs for your sons no more. more. I want to focus on my artistry and da-da-da-da. So my dad was like, hey, we ain't never, ever going to ask nobody for help. We got to learn how to do it ourselves. And so we started writing songs. And my dad was like, yo, y'all are a great songwriter. Stop playing. You really good. Man, it was so bad. But he just, my dad was one of those, like, motivate you till you believed it. So after a while, we believed them. And, you know, we started right now.

own songs putting out our own albums in the Virgin Islands independently. Do you remember how fresh goes? Oh, yeah. You see me fresh a done fresh. Hata have to press on any boy want to test me off and put them to the test. What kind of test that a lyrical test. Lyrics from my mouth, oh, me na, gill or less. Alla sexy, oh, man, they want to feel up my chest.

Because it's me again. Yes, me come fresh. Twelve years old, bro. I thought I was the dopest. I thought I was the hardest dude. Yo, I thought I was the hardest niggins in the world. I was like, yo, they can't play. I'm fresh, bro.

12 years old, bro. I thought I was kidding. It actually is really good, though. I mean, like, I mean, you and I've written songs in sessions before where they probably weren't that good. Like, that's like a legit. There's like a flow to it, man.

That's really impressive. Well, thank you because that's my first thing. And I was 12. and I have a terrible memory, but I remember that. I never forget that. You've got a good dad too for being someone who kidding,

like, I feel like dads just don't do that. But most dads are like, you know, like, you gotta be, you know, I don't know,

I feel like dads don't encourage kids like that right now. Yo, man, my dad, so my dad passed last year, September, first, right? And, and, you know, which was the craziest thing in history for me because he's been with me, yo, bro, I ain't going to lie my whole life. Like, he never missed the show. He never missed a talent show or performance. My, okay, so the first time we ever performed was at a Das

effects concert. My dad met Das Effects at their hotel looking for weed. And so they was looking for weed and my dad got in this argument. He cursed him out. This is a true story. He went off on him. And then after they got in their altercation arguing, they got cool. And he was like, oh, I know y'all. Me and my brother were fans. He's like, yo, my son's be rapping. You should let my son's like, you know, do a get on stage. So he brought us to the concert. And they was like, hey, bro, y'all want to grab the mic. So I was never afraid. I don't know why, but I always was like, hell yeah.

I just always believed I could, yo, you could ask me to fly a plane and I'm like, I could do that. You know, like, as a kid, I just was crazy. I don't know. And we went on stage freestyle and bro, and I never forget, my brother got the mic. Because my brother's more laid back and shy. And he started rapping. And he kept saying a lot of the same stuff.

stuff over and over. He was freestyling, and they started to laugh at him. And my brother's like, he literally grabbed the mic. He said, hold on. Stop the music. Y'all laughing at me? And he dropped the mic, walked off the stage, went up into the bleachers by my mom, crying, like, F this music, they can't laugh at me. And I'm just on the stage going. And by the way, we're not good, but they clapping for their bravery. You know, like, you're a kid. So they're like, oh this little kid don't care he's like going so you know the next day

is this place called French is this place is it the reef? I don't think it's the reef damn I forgot the name of it we used to go to the country and they used to have a band that performed for tourists so

and me and my brother kids my dad was like yo go up there we was like nah you know last night it didn't go that good we're not good he was like what y'all are made, again, he's the best, bro. He's the best dad ever in life. He's like, go up there. Man, we went up there, rocked it. All them tourists was rocking. They partying with us. And we just believe like, oh, shit, we believe we could do it. And so from that day on, it was like, hey, can't stop us. We, you know, go ahead. When you were saying earlier,

you know, when I was saying, St. Thomas feels like it's either a vacation spot or it's not, a vacation spot and it was later that you started realizing it was a vacation spot and here you are living and housing and then going and performing, you know, where tourists are. Because we always, we were so poor. We always assumed tourists was rich. Like we didn't think like people in America, oh, they work and they saved their money and they bought a ticket. We was like, yo, bro, if you can afford to fly here and stay in a hotel, and, and, you can afford to fly here and stay in a hotel. you buying food, bro, we could barely afford bread. I had my first job when I was 12 years old. I used to bag groceries to try to help bring food in the house. So when I saw people,

you on a cruise ship, as a kid, you don't know no better. I'm like, yo, these, I'm like, bro, we got to go to America, bro. They rich there. Everybody. You know, so, yeah, it definitely wasn't like it was beautiful we had a beach and we did stuff but nothing about it felt like paradise to us like when people are like oh my you know so many people say why would you move from there i'm like i saw my first dead body when i was nine they just walked up and shot the nigga in the head and and he died like you know what i'm saying like i'm like i'm from the ghetto i'm from you know what i'm saying I don't understand the shit.

What you all see, I don't see. But now I do and the Virgin Islands is one of the most beautiful, amazing places in the world. But as a child, I was definitely not on no like, oh, this place is so beautiful. I was like, I need to get the fuck off this place. Well, the hustle to be somebody to go

at that age, regardless of, you know, that's not, That's abnormal no matter who you are anywhere in the world. People are 11, 12, 13 years old. And like we were saying, your dad's influence is obviously super noticeable. But, like, no, kids aren't trying to rap in front of audiences that, you know, really don't even want you there. Like, you have to earn their respect at 11, 12 years old.

You know, like, you're just ready to go. When was the moment when you realized, do you? Did you ever realize that it was real? Or was it sort of, you know, like you were saying, here's your brother being like, I'm not doing this anymore. When was the moment after that where changes were, you could come, you know. We did an independent deal with a label in Atlanta, Georgia. My dad, yo man, my dad would all, my dad was our manager at first.

So he would always connect us with all kind of people. He just was a, he just came from hustling. You know, being a street dude that did his thing and he was relentless and he loved me and my brother. So he did everything in his power to, you know, get us out there. And we end up meeting some dudes out of Atlanta. We met some people in St. Thomas that helped us get to Atlanta. We met this company called Meta Music and we made an album like our first independent album. And we put it out.

And it was this dude named Robert Luke. This is when it all changed. Robert Luke played our music on the radio and we was the first local group that wrapped when in St. Thomas you sing Calypso or Soca. You don't, maybe reggae, but they don't play you on the radio. So we're a rap group. It ain't even no place for us to go perform.

Like, hip hop isn't a thing, you know? And we wasn't singing. We was just a hip hop. We was rappers. But my dad was like, what if they don't like? like you as rappers. So we did reggae and he was like, what if they don't like you as reggae? And he made us take singing lessons. He was like, he was just different. My dad used to make us perform in the living room for two hours before we go outside to play. He would sit, you see how

you sitting down? He would be like, give me the show. And we would perform and he would be like, I'm your dad. I'm your father. I'm supposed to love you. But everybody out there, they don't, they don't have to love you. They don't have to like you. Matter of fact, they came dare to not like you. And I'm your dad and I love you. And if you can't make me get up, how the fuck are you going to make strangers get up? And I was like, me and my brother was like, as a kid,

you're like, man, fuck this, man. I want to go play kickball. I want to go out with my friends. He's like, no, I haven't seen the show yet. This is terrible. And we were go and go. And then he would stand up and he would say, this is what you do every time.

Every time you get on the stage, no matter where you are, this is what you do. And then he would say, okay, y'all can go play now. And we would, and we would go out and we would and we would go play. So he instilled like all the work ethic and all of that. But that independent album when it dropped and they played our song on the radio, bro. And it was funny, where we come from is not a famous culture. like celebrities don't get like gopped at there you know i don't know why but st thomas people just don't

give a fault like we virgin honest people like really different bro it's a different place so i remember we lived in the projects bro i remember and girls would stop us and ask for our autograph and my dad was like you see that I'm older than you. I've never seen that in my life. You and your brother are special. Y'all are going to make it. And I used to be like,

make it where? What is this? You know what I'm saying? You're like, what is he talking about? Like, I love you, Daddy. Like, I want to go play. And he would say that all the time, you know, because it would be little girls,

want to take pictures with us. And I'm like, why do they want to take pictures with us? We're not rich or famous. We're not in limos. We're broke, bro. we are, bro, you got to understand, we did a show one time because they promised to pay us $75 and we needed it to pay the light bit. So we're like, yo, my dad is like, yo, y'all got to do this show.

We don't want to do the show. They paying $75. We need the money or we ain't going to have no lights. Yeah. And we go and we perform for these people, you know, and in St. Thomas hitchhiking is still cool. Like you know, I literally go on the corner. Like right now, me, I go on the corner and be like, hey, right up Big Mon and jump in a random person's car and today, right now.

You know what I'm saying? So we left the concert and it was so I remember being a kid. And we walked, we had, and my dad had to walk home by itself. But somebody gave me my mom and my brother a ride. But they didn't give us a ride probably. We probably walked for an hour and 30 minutes. before somebody stopped. And I was like,

yo, we just performed for all these people who clapped and chaired and they seen us walking. And then the people were supposed to pay us cash and they paid us with a check. And my dad was like,

yo, no, we need the money to go pay the light, you know. He was so transparent. He wasn't even, he was like, no, I need this money now. I got to pay the light bill tomorrow. I don't need a check.

Anyway, we got the check, man. We walked home. And I remember walking home and my mom and my dad and we walk in an hour in 30 minutes and as a kid all I'm thinking is yo bro we ain't gonna

I'm gonna make sure we never have to walk home like you know what I mean like when as a little kid I was like I don't like this shit I don't like that my mom and dad got to walk and we got to like catch rides I can't believe nobody don't want to stop it stop for my dad like my dad like no lie bro I know I keep talking about him

but he was literally like the greatest man that ever lived on a planet to me bro So I'm like, how could you not stop for my dad? This niggas Superman. Y'all are crazy. And I just was like, like stuff like that just used to drive me. So I would be in my room like writing songs every day because my dad told me, this is what you got to do to get out.

He always used to say, this is going to get y'all out of here. Yo, my dad used to tell us, man, my dad would be like, yo, fuck that school. No disrespect. He'd be like, fuck the white man's school. and the fucking, the fucking, the system. He always used to say the system. He said, fuck the system. This is going to get y'all out of here.

He's like, I know. I've seen it. I'm like, when you're a kid, you think the nigga crazy. And then you grow up and you do it. And you're like, this nigger wasn't crazy. How old are you when the album came out, the independent one out of Atlanta? Oh, man.

15, 14. So like when that comes out, and you're saying that you're signing autographs in St. Thomas, is that like the same time? Is that like the same time? This album is out with, because St. Thomas, St. Crohn and St. John is small. You got to think the population in the same time is like, what, 60,000, maybe 75. So, yo, there's no, St. Thomas is 32 square miles.

So my dad is like, yo, ain't nowhere for. for y'all a tour. We can't tour here. It's small. So I know what I'm going to do. We're going to perform at every school in every island. And those kids are going to grow up and they're going to be your fans. And we're like, what? So when we first started, we couldn't curse in our music because we would do school shows. Right. So weird. How is the relationship with you and your brother during all this? You guys are just on the same page because you're doing every. everything together, right? Or were you guys rival?

Yo, just so you know, me and my brother like, me and my brother love each other more than anything in this world and we fight every two seconds. Not fight like, we've got in one physical altercation. This is dead serious and my dad whooped our ass.

And he whooped our ass good enough to where I was like, if hitting you gets me whoop like that nigger, I'm never putting my hands on you, nigga. This is bullshit. And we both felt the same way. So we fought one time, like maybe 15, maybe young kids, though, when we were young, 13, 14.

I don't remember the age, but young. And never fought again. But me and my brother, we're literally night and day. Like, I'm like, if you ever meet me, I'm like, what's up? And my brother's like, what's up? the come like i'm i'm messy i'm like i'm just like i'm the type of person come in a hotel take my clothes let the clothes fall right there my brother is like bro we can get a hotel room for one night he takes out everything puts it in the drawers neatly organized i'm like yo bro we're just

different people but that i think That's why it works, though. I mean, that's so fun to go through, to go through any of the journey for anybody with someone that, that's your literal brother. I mean, that's such a dream scenario. If you guys can handle each other, you know? It's amazing, man.

It was amazing because I would tell anybody, Like, it doesn't, you know, being in a business with my brother and stuff, none of that stuff didn't get hard until we got girlfriends and we got money. And now you got everybody's opinion on how you got to do things. And then you got your own family. And that's when it gets difficult. But me and my brother, like, we have a great relationship. It's not like, you know how certain people are like, right now we're beefing and we kind of

stop talking for a year. Now, me and my brother He never went through that Like, he's You know, I love it. He's like one of the loves of my life. I love him with everything. He's the best.

You know, I feel like there's There's not a A huge gap between, you know, getting that first deal and, you know, signing the ACOM. But there's a little bit of a gap.

I mean, you're still like putting out music and touring and doing everything just to have floater. Yo, um, my, we left St. Thomas after we graduated high school. Moved to Miami.

So we moved for music to the States, saying like, yo, we got to, we got to make it bigger. Because my dad always, my dad is like, yo, your competition ain't nobody on this island.

Y'all competition, competition is destiny's child. And Jay-Z, like, if you're not competing with those people, That's who you're trying to beat. You got to be better than them. None of these people, they never did that.

You can't compete with them. That's not, they're not competition. And, you know, so we always was like that. So after we graduated at a high school, man, I got a plane ticket, $35 in a pair of shiny food pants, moved to Miami, Florida, my cousin O'Sana, like I mentioned earlier, we couldn't stay with her. My uncle had a small place. my dad's half brother. But we were big in the Virgin Islands and my cousin's boyfriend at the time,

Jason Roberts, he died, you know, RIP Jason. He wanted to get into music. And he was like, yo, he want to make beats and start a record label. And he just like, we was like the hood kids that didn't do the hood shit because we was in the music. And our mom and dad, like we grew up with our mom and dad. so we never really got into too much trouble. And he just was like, man, I love y'all.

Y'all can stay with me. But he's like, yo, I got four roommates, though. So I ain't got no bedrooms. So we used to sleep on a blanket in his dining room on the floor. And we stayed in Miami for 10 months, but it wasn't working out. So we went to Atlanta trying to, you know, we was like, yo, we're going to do. Oh, I know what it was. Me and my brother said, hey, br, we need to move.

Miami ain't it. We're not going to make it here. We need to move to New York or Atlanta. At least in New York, all the record labels are there. You know what I mean? So, bro, we could just stand up in front of the buildings and perform. And I know once they see us, they're going to sign us. He was like, yo, that's dope.

So we was like, but Atlanta, my girlfriend, sooner became my daughter's, my first kid's mom. she was in Atlanta. I was like, yeah, but we know people in Atlanta. We got a place to stay. We got a studio we can work out of. And literally while having that conversation, one of my dad's close friends,

I never forget, his name is Derek Porella. This man calls us and say, hey, bro, I want y'all to open, I want y'all to do a show in Atlanta, Georgia. This weekend, I can pay our $200 and put y'all in a hotel. and me and my brother was like, I guess we're moving to Atlanta.

Bro, no plan, no place to stay. We got a hotel room for one night. Like, fuck it. We're going to figure it out. So we went to Atlanta, bro. But you got to think, all this story I'm telling you, because I know this is about songwriting.

We didn't know that songwriting was a job. We did not. We thought everybody wrote their own songs Because we, you know what I'm saying? So we're like, songwriting doesn't, there's nowhere songwriting exists. Songwriting doesn't exist until my daughter.

So my brother moved back to St. Thomas. Atlanta got hard. He moved back to St. Thomas. I'm in Atlanta. My daughter's mom is pregnant. Right? And I used to write love songs. for my daughter's mom because I was broken.

I couldn't buy nothing. So I just used to write all these love songs to her. You know, like R&B, I guess. And it had this one dude named Mikel who came by the, who I don't remember how I met him, but he heard one of my love songs and he was like, yo, bro, I want to sing that song. And I was like, what? Why would you sing my, that doesn't even make that stupid? Why would you even do that?

Anyways, he brings who becomes our manager later on in life, Ray Daniels, to meet me. So me and Ray always say the way we know how long we've been friends is because when he met me, my daughter was in her mom's belly. My daughter's 17 now. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So, bam, we meet each other and I'm just riding around with Ray. And, oh, at this point of time, I'm thinking about quitting music because I got a baby on the way.

you got to grow up, I got to get a real job. And my whole life, everybody kept saying, you're so good, you're so talented. And I remember one night, bro, I was just crying, like literally crying, screaming. And I'm talking to myself, I'm not good. Because if I was good, people would pay me. And I wish somebody would tell me the truth

because people telling me that I'm good keeps making me want to try doing this shit, but nothing is happening. So I know I'm not good because people who are good make it. And I meet Ray. And at that time, me and my brother, I name was still to equip. And Michael is like,

yo, this the dude from the islands that I told you about with his brother with the group to equip. And Ray, this is the first time I've ever met this man in my life. He's an intern. He doesn't know shit. He said, oh, yeah. I remember, I heard your music, man.

That shit was whacked to me. I ain't fucking with that shit. You got to understand A week before That's why I think like I believe like The world If you look for the signs

Bro, they're there You got to understand When we wanted to move to New York or Atlanta We got a call to come to Atlanta When I wanted to quit I was like can somebody tell me What I'm doing wrong A week later

Ray comes to my house Tells me I'm whack And I said Why? He said I mean you talented But bro You don't do this This this this and this

I was like yo can you spend the night at my house and tell me what i need to do he was like sure so ban first night he ever met me this nigga sleeping in my house and the next morning my daughter's mom made us breakfast and he we in there talking and then we became friends inseparable from that day ban my brother's in st thomas my brother comes back something happens something gets fucked up but we got to move back to St. Thomas. So, you know, I'm down there. We got regular jobs and shit.

Me and my daughter's mom don't work out. We move back to Atlanta. We save money. We get an apartment. My brother works at Kroger grocery store. I work at Party City. Child support is $179 and I couldn't afford it. But before I left St. Thomas, I promised my daughter.

I left St. Thomas. My daughter was two years old. I said by the time you five, you ain't going to understand what being broke me. That's my only goal. I was like, I don't know what I'm about to do, but by the time you're five, you're not going to grow up how I grow up. You're not going to be like, yo, how are we going to afford to do this? You know what I'm saying? So, bro, we get back to Atlanta.

We hustling. We hustling. Ray isn't our manager. We got another manager. One of our homeboys connect us with Ray and say, yo, bro, I ain't gonna lie. But Ray is my friend. We talk all the time. We work all the time. Ray's like, he's like,

yo man, y'all should let Ray manage y'all, man. He got that hunger. And Ray had an artist that he was managing that literally I want to use a politically correct term because I don't want to be disrespectful, but let's say this. He literally lost his mind.

You know what I'm saying? So, Ray connected with me and my brother and we start, and you know, Ray never seen us perform or never really. He did, like, we was already famous in the Virgin Islands. So Ray doesn't really know. He's just like, yo, they work hard.

They really want it. Eventually something to give. You know what I'm saying? And he saw us perform one night and woke like 9 a.m. 9 a.m. Ray comes to our apartment, right? And he's like, we're like, yo, Ray, it's 9 o'clock in the morning. We still sleep.

It's a weekend. What's wrong? He's like, bro, I can't sleep. I couldn't sleep. He's like, nigger. He saw us perform. He said, I ain't never seen nothing like that. He's like, listen, I don't care what nobody says. Nobody's going to tell us no. We're going to be the biggest niggas in the game. I can't believe I've been managing y'all this whole time. And I didn't know that y'all can do that. He was like, okay, we've been doing this our whole life. It's like, whatever, niggas. Okay, like, we're happy that, you know, bro, we're going around the city and I never forget. It's a song that I wrote and we put it on our second independent album and I wrote it in the seventh grade. It's called the rain and A-Con used it.

This song changed our life. because we was working on our fourth independent album and I won and me and my brother wanted to redo that song and bring it back with singing verses because the original version we sung the hook rap the verses so he wrote it benny d who was i DJ one of one of my best friends in the world he's a kons DJ so you know me being arrogant or cocky or whatever people want to call he's he's like yeah he's playing me some new songs for Acon's new album, convicted. And I was like, I think I got a, Nick, I got a harder song than that. And I play it. He was like, oh, I know this song.

It's the rain. He's been our DJ. We all, by the way, we all grew up in St. Thomas. So he's like, Toran, that's the rain. I know that. He's like, yo, that is good. I'll send it to Acon. I said, why?

He said, for him to sing it. What the fuck you mean? He's going to sing it. Like, you know, whatever. brother Acon asked us for 10% of the publishing he said he's going to sing the song

he asked for 10% of the publishing and he paid us $5,000. So me and my brother and Ray me and my brother are like, hold up niggas pay you $5,000 for songs bro we have so much songs you can have all these songs if you're going to pay us

$5,000. Nicker we we broke, we fuck, you know, we're nervous. Like, how are we going to pay the rent? Child support? Like, oh, like, if we can sell songs at $5,000 a pop. So we started to get hot in Atlanta. We started to get a bus. And our lawyer says, hey, bro, I think we could do a pub deal. I didn't even know what that meant.

I didn't even know what that. We didn't even know what that was. He was like, yo, based on what's going on, I can get y'all like, like 75,000 150. What? Man, y'all got to understand, bro. We are broke kids from St. Thomas who moved to the states between me and my brother were $85

and said, yo, we're going to make it in a music business. And this person is saying you could get $75,000 or $150,000 to do some shit that we didn't know that you could do. And we're like, what? So everybody's courting us and they want to go on meetings. And our first meeting is with a lady from Hitko. Never forget this, bro. Let me talk about, let me tell you some life-changing shit.

Lady from Hitko says, I want to take y'all the dinner where y'all want to go. Me, my brother, and Ray, all our pockets are fucked up. We want to go to the sundial. It's a restaurant in Atlanta that spins around in a circle, but it's fancy. We can't afford it, but we're like, shit. If they're paying, we're going to go there. The food was terrible. But guess what?

Our lawyer says we're going to get $75,000 to $150,000. Why are we up there? This lady, we're like, Ray's always used to say, never negotiate against yourself. Don't ever say the number. Let them say the number. Yes. So she's like, listen, man, I really, really want to sign the guys. But Ray, man, don't.

don't overcharge me. You know what I mean? Like, you know, where, you know, don't overcharge me. I don't want this expensive. He was like,

listen, man, we just want to be with somebody that's going to help us grow. We want to be here for the next 20 years. We're not a cash grab type of guy. We're not those guys. We want to build. So it's not about busting nobody upside the head.

It's just like, allow us to be able to take care of our family so we can build because we want to be around. She was like, man, I like that cool. She's like, so what do you want?

He's like, tell me. She's like, come on, Ray. She's like, look, I ain't going to bullshit you. I'm just going to jump out because I really want to do this deal. We could do it for $750,000. Me and my brother and Ray Daniels is sitting at the sundial and I'm kicking Ray under the table. Like, if you don't say yes, I'm, bro, I want to cry.

By the way, I'm emotional. I don't give a fuck. I'm a pie. So I really not cry like I'm in like I can't believe this is happening, bro. Damn. Wow. I can't wait to call my parents. I can't wait to buy my daughter something for real.

You know what I mean? So anyways, rape nigger, the most gangster shit ever. At the moment, I couldn't believe. He said, listen. I can't tell you yes and I can't tell you no. What I'm going to tell you is the three of us need to talk about it and discuss it and make a real choice because we don't like to make emotional decisions. She was like, come on.

He's like, listen, we've gotten this far because the three of us always talk before we make a choice. All I'm asking you is to let us talk. She was like, you know what, I respect that. We get in an elevator, we leave, we call our lawyer. we like, guess what she offered? He was like, well, when you say that, what, 175? Nah. He picked three.

Ray said, $750,000. He said, what the fuck did you just say? He said, do you trust me? Yeah. Don't talk to anybody else and hung the phone up. And we're like, what? bro we're in the car celebrating like yo they want to give us seven yo yo we're like what the fuck bro and then so now acon is acon usher little john is trying to sign us as artists so we're like

what is going on right now bro the world oh my god the world is fucking going crazy. Yo, bro, Ethiopia at Universal comes and meets us at, she was the only person that came to the studio, met us and asked to listen to music. Everybody else was like, yo, man, y'all burning up. And we, and we was like, yo, they don't, do they want to hear what the, do they want to know for good or not?

Like, they haven't even heard this song. things. Yo, bro, Ethiopia offered us a million dollars. Then, you know, somebody else called offers us money. This is the craziest thing. They offered it. It got up to $2 million. Ethiopia said, I can't give y'all $2 million. I can only give y'all $1.5. We was like, look, we met up our word, you in our face. We like you. We're going to go with you. We did a pub deal for $1.5 million. I had negative $68 in the bank or 30 something, whatever. Negative something in the bank.

And then I went to my bank account and I had $1.5 million in it. In a year, me and my brother was flat broke and I owed $468,000 in back taxes. In a year, bro. By the way, the reason I can. can say it happy and smiling because obviously I'm in my new house life is amazing we went through and I love to talk about it because

other songwriters and people they don't know everybody everybody makes the shit sound like sexy town nah nigga we didn't know shit we've said it's like why there isn't a

you know when you play any pro sport if you're playing the NBA and you're a rookie it doesn't matter if you're the number one pick in a draft or you were, you know, you came up from some other league from Europe or something like that. You still have to do a freshman orientation. You still have to do something where they teach you like, hey, get a business manager. Don't do this because this will ruin your career. Do this because this will help your career. Don't spend all your money. They'd say all these things in all the pro sports. And then you get into music and it's built on

on taking advantage of like the idea is like in a way like songwriters and artists are expendable and then no one gives us shit about what you do with your advances or all that but it's like no man don't spend it don't spend any of it and no one will say that and no one will even listen to it now but like at least like

like you feeling like you can be honest and telling that story is more valuable to anybody than saying, I got $1.5 million in the bank. And then I wrote, you know, we can't stop. No, that's not like you telling the fact that the next year, you're $400,000 in back taxes. That's like the legit story that is as often told

as anything else in the music business. Well, maybe not that much money. But they kind of. I wish, I wish, I wish it was. But the funny part is you got to think so we owe that money. We don't have any hits out. We don't have nothing popping. And, yo, we end up being signed the Interscope for four years

and we only got to release one single. Yeah. So we're like, and bro, we're going hard every day. Bro, we're working hard every day. And you got to think we're writing three, four, five, six songs a day. Every day. No over-exaggeration. No, no.

every day. The funny part is, you know, that's why I love my wife because, you know, everybody says get a business manager. Well, I had a business manager. And I just don't feel like I was, I just don't feel like they were teaching me. They were just like, oh, run a long child and play and da-da-da-da-da. And then it was like, wait, what happened? So which is all good. You know, no disrespect to nobody. I don't have no ill vibe for no one. And when I was dating my wife at the time. She was just my girlfriend. She would be coming around and then she started staying with me, but she didn't know how much money I had. You know, like, she's like, shit, I don't know. I'll be with the nigga. We're hanging out. We go on dates. It's fun. He's a nice guy.

The fuck. So, you know, we got closer. We're like, you know, love stage, all this shit. Now she finds out like how much money I had and what happened and how it's being. And she's like, yo, Why didn't you do this? How come you don't have this? Why wouldn't you do this? I was like, yo, you know all about that shit, huh? She's like, nah, but I said, yo, you want to do it? She's like, no.

I'm like, nah. Yo, bro, at this time she's pregnant with our first, with our first son, right? And I'm like, yo, you should do it. She's like, I don't want to control your money. I say, you don't control it. And guess what? If you rob me, you're just going to take all the money and take care of my kids. I only want to make money to take care of my kids anyway.

I don't care. She's like, you're fucking crazy. Bro, went to the bank the next day, went, let her do all the bank shit. I'd be like, yo, put her on every account. Whatever the fuck she tells y'all to do, y'all listen to her. Two years later, we were married. We've been married for 11 years. We've been together for 15.

This year is going to be 12. 12 years of marriage. And people, I know. That's not for everybody. Some people is like, bro, you're crazy. But I'm like, yo man, like, yo man, shoot a shit, you know. So, you know, just getting out.

Now, so this is where we got and how, and what changed it all, what got us out the whole back on top, back moving, Ayers replay. I has replay changed our life in more ways than just a hit record. Iyer's replay was a hit record on a new artist that nobody had ever heard of. He was from the Virgin Islands, like we were. And we played that song at Interscope, and we was like, yo, this is going to be a hit.

We wrote it for B-O-B, an Atlantic past. We said, yo, we could keep it. It could be our song. This is going to be a hit. Inescope passed. Ayah got it. It became a hit and it changed our life because then we was like, yo, get us off an inner scope. We don't want to be here.

Y'all don't believe in us because it was like, y'all need to do a club record. We don't fucking do club. We, what kind of club record are you talking about? Whatever. I has changed our life. It brought us back up. We've never been down since IAS replay. We've never, we've never been like, it's no money.

You know what I mean? It's like, okay, this is where God was like, okay. okay, I'm about to put y'all on, you know, on level ground here. And then from here, you know, so we've been coasting since then. And I would just say, like, we've been extremely blessed to be in a game this long. And currently. That record, dude, that record changed a lot of people's career. And that's, like, right in the time, you know, that's J.R. Rodham's, like, sweet spot when he's, like, cleaning up.

And, you know, you guys had the Sean. Kingston record and you guys are well into that world. That's the first world that one of those first worlds that I got to write in. So I remember writing with Sean and like, like, I just remember being around that environment where there was like the Sean and the IAS and like there was so much good music coming out of that crew. And it was like really stemming from what you guys were doing and what J.R. was doing. It's like such a moment in like pop music. I could see why that would launch everyone wanted that song. After you guys released that song

and after Sean, you know, it's like it changed so many artists wanted that kind of song. Yo, man. And it's so funny. We was like, you know, I always tell people like, yo, we write pop songs. We write R&B songs. We write hip-hop. We do every genre.

You know, we're like the Rihanna of songwriting. You know, Rihanna can do any genre she wants. We can, we do any genre we want, right? and I'm like it's just with Sean and and I is

that's our culture I tell everybody with the R&B and all the other shit we're winging it well bro I'm like dog I can't read music I don't know anything I don't know anything

educational about music at all not one thing I don't know shit then all my knowledge of American music is the music that I grew up listening to. So, bro, there's

songs that you could play me and you'll be like, you don't know this song? I'm like, yo, my nigga, y'all forget, I'm from St. Thomas, not like fake. I have the accent to prove it. I am not from here. So that shit didn't cross the water. It didn't make it to me and my friends, bro.

I'm sorry. You know, so it's like... I have songs, it's so crazy because they go from, you know, you're an artist and then all a sudden, like, some people are cutting your records, and then you get pussycat dolls and Jennifer Hudson, and you get Justin Bieber. It's like this, trying to explain this to your dad,

your dad, first of all, like, I'm sure from that first deal and all the things after that, like, how did he react to everything? Like, the first deal, the call and be like, here's the 1.5, and then they have to call him and be like, back taxes, and then they call him and be like, ah, I ask. No, we never, because when we got the, the first thing we did with a 1.5 was move our parents out the project and bought him a house in Atlanta. So my parents have been in Atlanta since then. I mean, you know, so I've, yeah. Yeah. My parents have been in Atlanta since then. So honestly, we, we didn't tell them about the money issues. It was like, yo, we was taking care of them. It was like, you know what I'm saying? So my parents never really knew what money issues or any problems that we was going through. They just was like,

you know, our kids like changed our fucking lives. You know what I mean? And it's like, and we did. And we felt like we owed them and we still like, you know, my dad passed last year and now my mom stays with me. But it's like, I don't know, man. It feels good to be able to do things for it. You know, I don't feel like, oh my God.

It's like, yo, bro. Today, yesterday when I brought my mom, mom home to the house because we just bought a new house. And I was like, yo, mom, you remember being in hosing? Because, you know, we had a two-bedroom apartment with one bathroom that all four of us shared. And me and my, you know, I'm 39 now. Me and my brother shared the same bed till I was 27. Not dead ass. So, so think about what I'm saying like, like, I'm telling my mom like, yo remember being in housing would you ever imagine in your life like this would be our life she was like my mom calls us mommy son me and my brother she'd be like mommy son never she's like

even she's like I wish your dad was here to see it but some days I'd be in this house like wow what the what do you what do you do with this how what are we even doing You know what I'm saying? It's insane, bro. And we're just blessed and grateful. You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, blessed, grateful, but also, like, it's really, the work ethic has a lot to do with it.

Like, when you're doing, when you're writing five, six songs a day and you're hustling like that, like, you know. No. I think good things happen when you have, like, that talent and you have that, and you combine that with. Yeah, I And because You know what I always believe, man? You got to play like you You 20 points behind.

Yeah. And my manager said this. This is Ray. Ray always told me this and I believe this in my heart. You got to play like you 20 points behind because the music business don't need you. You need the music business. Like, you're a songwriter.

I'm a songwriter. Do you know of me and you said, we're never writing songs again? It's going to come on the radio. Yeah. We're not the end-all be-all. So it always keeps me humble to know, you got a top 10 you got a top 20 you got a top 100 you got a you got a song on the radio like be grateful because there's hundreds of thousands of millions of people trying to get in that spot waiting to wanting and trying to write a better song than you every day and it's like you know i don't know why people like our song.

songs. You know what I mean? I definitely learned a lot from a lot of people and I use all the thing that I learned and everything that I've been educated on. I use it. But I can't, you know, some people might be like, yo, I don't fucking know why people like what we do. But I do know when I write a song, my goal has always been the standout. Like, you know what I'm saying? And now being in the game a long time, most of the songs that I did, didn't go to who I did it for. Like replay was for B-O-B. You know, when I grow up was for Britney Spears.

We Can't Stop was for Rihanna. If This Is In Love was for Brandy. You know what I'm saying? It's like, Ply's put it on you was for R. Kelly. Like, it's just these. So after a while being in this business, you just start to feel like, hey, you know what? A good song is going to find a home, man.

Just keep being, just keep being as good as great as you can and keep writing songs and keep believing in yourself because at the end of the day, everybody who's ever told me my shit was whack, they were right. And everybody who's ever told me my shit was great, they were right. Because at the end of the day, just somebody's fucking opinion. But, you know, for real, like, bro, your shit is whack. bro, you're not wrong. When my song hits your ears,

it don't sound good. And I respect that. But you can't take away my top 10. Nigger, you can't take away that I'm number one right now. I don't care if you like it, bro. The world has spoken. Radio has spoken. You, the numbers are in.

I won. It don't matter how you feel. Working with people like Rihanna and Beyonce, say when you're saying that when you were growing up, you're like, you need to be like, you know, your competition is Destiny's Child. And you grow up in the islands and you have, and then you're recording, you know,

Rihanna's cutting a bunch of your records and even releasing singles of yours. What is that like to have like your idols in a way? Like, I don't know if you're idol, but like having like those. Well, well, me and my brother, Rihanna have this kind of island connection. Like when we see each other and we are,

Like when we see each other and we talk, we always say the same thing to each other. You know we're not supposed to be here, right? Yeah. Because it's like Barbados and St. Thomas, why are we dominating in American culture the way we are? What the fuck is this? This is insane. So our relationship is different. With Beyonce, I never met Beyonce.

Both songs that we did for Beyonce, the one song I did for Beyonce, I did with Polo. for Rihanna and it went to Beyonce and then the other song I did with Diplo for Rihanna and it went to Beyonce. So I'm just like, maybe I just need to keep sending my Rihanna songs to be. Something so real about that. Rihanna's team is amazing at holding hit records

and if they like this song then that means that it's going to be a great hit for somebody. Just like, you know, we can't stop was Miley's first hit. hit outside of like the Hollywood records, Disney Records thing. And that really like shaped her whole career. Like when we think of Miley, we think of everything that happened after that. You know, like you said, numbers don't lie.

That song was so, so, so, so big. You know, did you start feeling like it was easy? Like did you ever go to a point where you're like, oh. Yeah, like writing songs was, it became really easy and it was bored. I was bored and I told my manager like yo I think I need to do something else because it's just so easy for me I mean I don't mean no disrespect

but it you know I wrote we can't stop in like nine minutes yeah you know what I mean like these songs are like freestyles you know what I mean I believe like I let God write the songs you know whether people believe in that or not I'm I don't force it I'd be like how the fuck am I supposed to know what you're going to like

I do what the fuck I want to do I like it and hopefully I can convince half a million or a million people to like it so we can go gold or platinum. You know what I mean? That's all that's all we can do. I can't be like, you know what? I think, I'm like, shit. I think this shit is fire.

Send it to this person. Yeah, exactly. And hopefully they agree with me. And, you know, the times where they've agreed with me, it has won in my favor. And times when they didn't agree with me, it's like, shit, keep going. Keep writing. Locked Away was a really big song internationally. It did pretty well here.

But what's crazy is like that's you guys really putting out your own music. That starts to become you guys as artists again. Like that's the introduction of Rock City to as not writers, but like rock stars. You know? Go ahead. My bad. Just how does that feel being the artist versus being the writer? And like what's that experience like?

You know what it feels like? You know what it feels like? And I'm being 100% honest, it feels like I fucking told y'all. Like calling my dad and say, we told them, Daddy. We told them if they gave us a shot, we would beat a shit.

But they don't listen. That's how we felt. Straight up. It's like, because you got to understand by the time we got to lock the way, nigger, me and my brother was like, me, my brother and our manager was like,

yo, fuck this artist shit, man. We're just going to be songwriters. Nobody cares. Nobody wants to give us a deal. Nobody wants to invest money in us. They don't believe in us. Fuck it. We're done.

We start working with Dr. Luke. And Dr. Luke says, while in the studio, because we wrote singing in the shower for Becky G. You know. But we wrote shower for Katie Perry. Like I said, all the songs, they start. But, you know, a good song is a good song. And while in the studio working on music, Luke says, Hey, if we made music together, what do you think it would sound like?

And we was like, what? What do you mean? Like, you know, you guys are artists, right? I mean, yeah, but we're not, yeah, but we brushed it off. We're not doing that right now. You know, we're trying to write pop songs. He's like, no, no, no. I got my situation in Sony, you know, maybe let's just see.

And we wrote eight songs in like three days for Rock City. and um but again me and my brother we are rap group and in the virgin islands it's funny locked away is big in the world but in the virgin islands we have so many hits but i hit sounds like hard-ass hip-hop public enemy rap like fuck the government rap

you know what I mean so um I'm out of Applebee's in Orlando randomly and um I'm like you know, thinking on some ideas

and I had this idea to write a song about my mom and my dad because my dad went to prison for five years and my mom stayed with them. They've been together for 43 years before my dad passed. And I was like, yo, Timothy, it'll be fired if we did a song like, you know,

like, if I got locked away, da-da-da-da, da, da, da, you know. He was like, that's fire. That's all I had. and I put the melody in my phone and I was like, yo, that shit's fire. My brother's like, that's fire. We fly to L.A.

We were like, yo, Luke, man. So we were stuck. We in the studio, we don't know, we don't know what to sing. And the whole time we was working on our album, we was writing songs for everybody. So we never really spent any money out of our budget to make an album

because if Katie Perry flew us out, we were write for Katie Perry, then we would write for ourselves. You know? So we're like, oh, Luke, I got this idea.

He's like, yeah, if I got locked away that, uh, da, da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da. Oh, that's a good melody. Luke starts playing a guitar

We let circuit does its thing, put the chords in. Luke makes it a dance all beat. And me and my brother's like, nah, we, I don't know. I don't think we want to do dance all. I'm like, I'm like, he's like, nah, this shit is fire. We're like, okay, cool.

And we do it. We figure it out. We write it. The song was called, Would you love me the same? That's the name of the song. And our manager comes to the studio and he's listening to the music. And he's like,

Yo, you know what? Play that, what's it called? Would you look? Yeah, play that song again. He plays it and he's like, you know something? This song is good, but the verses are terrible. The verses are so bad. And we're like, so I'm like, yo, Luke, what would you do in the verses? Luke is like, no, like, I'm a black kid from St. Thomas Virgin Islands.

your mind is driven for pop. I already had the chorus, but if you heard this dance-all song, what would we do Caribbean-wise that would make you still listen to it? And Luke was like, na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na. I was like, ooh, that's fire.

That melody's crazy. So I'm like, cool. We're just going to make sure we put the accent in there because everything in an accent sounds cool. This is what we all said. So if I judge for life, me would you stay by my side? You know,

bam, we do it. So our second single, but now, so now band we're done, they wanted to make the second single on our album, our first single.

And we're like, nah, bro, we can't do that. That's terrible. We can't do that. We're like in Anguilla and our manager's like, nah,

locked away as a hit. Luke was, Luke didn't want to put it out first, but he was like, he was working with Maroon 5 and he's like, yo, I think I'm, I could get Adam Levine to do a hook for y'all. So he sent Adam Levine five songs. There's a song in our album called Again and Locked Away. Adam Levine liked those two songs. So we're like, cool, put him on Locked Away. Adam Levine does lock the way. So he's like, Luke is like, cool, we got Adam Levine. This could be the first single. We sent it to Peter Edge at RCA.

Peter Ed says, you know what's bothering me with this song? The title. When I see those guys, I just don't see would you love me the same. I think Locked Away is a better title. And we're like, yo, that is crazy.

Yeah, we like Da. You know? So we call the song Locked Away. Maroon, five drops this summer is going to hurt like a motherfucker and it was like, yo, you can't drop your song right now.

We're like, bro, our album is done. We ready. We have the song. Nah, we don't want your song to clash with our song. So we got to wait three months. You got to understand, bro. We were signed for four years. Now we have a single with one of the biggest pop stars in the world. We're like

like, bro, it's like, and don't forget, Usher I don't. mind. Pour it up. Nikki Minaj only. Yo, all of these things are happening and we're

like, yeah, yeah, all that shit is cool. Like, it's so crazy because we're like, yeah, yeah, that's cool, but we don't give a fuck about that. Locked away needs to drop. And lock the way he dropped. And that shit came on. And that shit came on, what you call it?

Oh, when iTunes was pop And that's the first, bro, that's the first time I ever seen our name in iTunes charts. And I called my brother and Ray on three way and I said, go to the motherfucking iTunes charts right now, nigga. Look whose name is there. And we was like number 147. You know what I mean? Like something like, why are you excited? I'm like, no, nigger.

That says our city. Look at that. And shit, it became number one. We went on tour of Maroon 5 for a year. Torin sucks ass. You know what I mean? I just want to, you know. Because at this point of time,

no, but at this point of time, we're already successful making money. And, you know, we got wives and I got kids. And I'm like, and I want to put music out, but I'm like, oh, love, living on the road. This shit is bullshit. These niggas is out here tripping. And then shit, we put out our album.

Dr. Luke produced every song. Dr. Luke got in trouble. The, you know, he got, the whole scandal came out. Pop Radio said we're not playing anything produced by Dr. Loop. And, you know, we were back to square one. So we were just like, it's so weird. This industry is so complicated. because so much of it has nothing to do with you.

No matter what you want, like, when people say like, ah, it's everything, it's so cliche. Everyone's like, everything has to go right for their, for a hit to be a hit or for a project to, you know, and like, I'm going to skip forward to like Lizzo because, you know, like you did a lot on the, and it's like, that's, that's a great example of, like, for four years, nothing went right in that project, nothing. And like I love Ricky and like that's he's family obviously like nothing went right for that project and then everything went right for that project.

And it's like it's so interesting what happens. Like the world happens to us just as much as like we all like you said, if we all think we can control the industry. It's like the industry keeps going man. They just do their things and like sometimes like Lizzo pops off because her talent's just so undeniable. So undeniable man. And it's a blessing. that I got to meet her because, you know, like, it was just like, we needed each other when we met each other. Like, we didn't know we needed each other when we met each other. But when me and Lizzo met each other, we both needed each other. Like, just, like, she gave me a confidence and, and she respected me in a way that I felt like other people that I work with and gave hits who didn't. And she was a new artist, she wasn't big, but I just liked the way that she treated me like,

what do you think, Taron? Because I was like, I was like, bro, I'm not just a songwriter, bro. I know, I know things. I'm, I be right, bro. I be like, you know, like doing level up for Sierra and telling her, we got to do a fast song because bitches are doing coke again in the club and this is going to be big for you. You know, like, bro, I know it sounds crazy. doing I bet for Sierra and Sierra saying I want to do some I want to dance I'm like now you can't

and she leaves a room and I'm saying yo we're not fucking doing no dance song we're going to do something slow she needs a ballad like you know doing I don't mind for Usher and saying he needs to say this right now in this world in his career you know what I'm saying like like you know it's it's weird it's like pour it up for Rehont it's not just a song it's this is a thing that people need to realize i'd be i was sometimes i'd be predicting shit right because i'm in the club and i realize whenever female records play men don't dance men leave the dance floor viance whatever was a hit with a girl men don't participate so when i so i was like how do we make a because i was like women been

making their own money for long. That's not the new independent woman is women can do what men can do. But I'm like, how can a woman say something that I want to say? That's why pour it up was a song. I literally did it for Rihanna and said, I'm only going to say things that a guy would say. And I knew it worked when I was in the club. And I saw niggas going strip clubs and dollar bills.

And I still got more money, patrol shots. Everything, I wrote it for a man and I was like, a girl needs to say this because this is going to change pop culture. We can't stop. I was like, I did it for Rihanna, but you got to understand how big dance music was. And me and Luke used to argue because I was in Atlanta and I was like, yo, nigger, these niggas is out here taking drugs that's slowing them down. This fast shit is whack. nobody wants to hear this fucking douche do any more and way i love dance music i'm just being completely transparent on how to i express myself i'm not disrespecting any genre you know what i'm just like this is i was like dance music no i'm like follow the drugs bro follow the drugs the drugs

the drugs that people do in the club is how they feel and when people do the drugs that's what the they want to hear. If you're doing coke, you don't want to hear R&B. So I'm like, I was in the club, bro. Before I did level up, I was in a club. Two girls was doing Coke, and they was like, this club is boring.

All this music is too slow. And it was all the turn-up shit. And I was like, it's too slow. And so when I saw Sierra, I was like, bitches want to dance again. We can't do slow music. Bro, you know what my prediction is for music? Tempo is coming back. Why? We have been locked in the house because of COVID for a year.

Nobody could go outside. Girls want to twerk and dance and shake. This is going to be the hottest hot girl summer in history after this vaccine is given to everybody. And everybody's going to be outside. And I promise you, all they want is energy. So I'm like, I'm in a studio. When I'm working with artists, I'm like, bro, you got to give them that energy. Niggas ain't trying to lay back. They've been at home laid back for a year. Niggas want to jump and run and scream. They want fucking black eyepie. You know what I'm saying?

They want fucking bombs over Baghdad. So again, I can be fucking wrong. What do I know? But I'm just telling you this is how I feel about music though. Yeah, like there's no question that major chords and tempo are going to be really important right now. I think you're so on but you know so you know musically that's what I've been at that I've been feeling and um yeah but but with with my whole story and everything I've been to go ahead I was just going to say let's do our last segment real quick it's going to be a five for five I mean there's

five things just tell me that what comes off the top of your head let's start with Ray your manager Okay. Love. I love him to death. Yeah, love. That's going to be the first thing. Let's go with Dr. Luke. Man, I would say love too, but I can't say the same thing for the same person. So I would say mentor. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's go with your brother. This. I wouldn't be here. without him. I wouldn't be here if he wasn't there next to me. I wouldn't be able to, his existence is the first spark of everything. I was the ugly kid when I was small. I was, nobody wanted to play

with me. Nobody thought I was cool. This is real shit. And my, and my little brother has looked up to me since he was born and now, his love for me has fueled me to be somebody. But if that little dude thinks I'm somebody, y'all can't tell me nothing. So his, whole existence to me. I love that. Your mom is everything. Your dad. Funny.

Me. I would say my mom funny. My mom is my sense of humor. She's everything. She makes me laugh. She lets, she allows me to see this world from the point of view that I see it where it doesn't bother me as much as it bothers most people.

Seriously. And my dad is me. I really believe that my dad just recreated himself. And I look like him. There's so many things that he did that I do now. Like, it's weird. I just feel like he's the only man that's, he's the only man on this planet that I ever wanted to be like.

That's it. So I'll say me. Thank you for doing the podcast, man. You know, you are like your dad. The way that you talk, the way your dad talk to you and your brother and then the way you're talking

to these world class artists about what they need to help their careers out you're being your dad and like you know I think a lot of our industry needs like people who are nurturing and people who say hard truths and you know

there's a reason why like you know people who work with you love you, man. Behind your back, you are so loved in the industry. So it's like, it's really cool, man, to watch. You know, it's just cool. I appreciate you being on this,

man. Man, thanks for having me, bro. You have a bless and amazing day and, man, if we could ever do this again, I would love to. Thank you so much. Yeah, we'll do it from the studio next time. For sure. It's a deal. This episode is produced

by Joe London, Hypnosis, mega house management and myself shout out page mcdonald kelly fox kacey robinson david silberstein tim kurchin zack wein see you all next week i'm ross golan signing off