And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan - Ep. 181: Maggie Lindemann

Episode Date: April 29, 2024

Today’s guest journey to stardom began on the World Wide Web. At 17 years old, she was quickly noticed by fans and industry professionals alike. She has since accumulated over a billion streams, sold out her first headlining tour, spearheaded her beloved clothing line, and started her own podcast solidifying herself as a multi-hyphenate artist. After spending her early 20s solidifying herself as an artist-to-watch with her massively successful sophomore and debut album, our guest is entering a new era of her artistry. Her latest EP is electrifying, filled with genre-bending tracks, and introspective storytelling. All the way from Dallas, TX, this advocate’s metamorphosis has captivated audiences around the world and empowered young women to own their truth in the face of societal pressures.And The Writer Is... Maggie Lindemann! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to And The Writer Is with Ross Golan. There are millions of singers, thousands of artists, and only 40 songs per genre at a time. These are the stories of the hottest creatives, the most venerable legends, artists, songwriters, executives, and more. Follow our socials and share your music with the and the Writer is community. We'll see you all there and now. Here's this week's episode. Hey guys, I'm excited to tell you a little bit about what. one of today's sponsors, Peer Music. During a time of intense consolidation in the music industry,

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Gabby Moreno, Cheyenne, The Tragically Hip, and many, many more. And peer music neighboring rights represents over 300 record labels and more than 3,000 artists including Billy Eilich, Imagine Dragons, Martin Garrick's David Gatt, Metallica, Megan the Stallion, Her and Strom A. Delivering nearly 100 years of

music publishing excellence, peer music is a trusted and widely respected leader in our music community. If you want to learn more, I recommend you go to at Peer Music on all their social media sites and check out PeerMusic. ChartMetric is proud to sponsor the upcoming season of And The Writer is. As the go-to source for up-to-date global social streaming and audience data for artists and music industry professionals, chart metric strives to ensure everyone can have a successful career in music. They're easy to understand in powerful analytics on over 10 million artists and 100 million

tracks will help answer all of your questions from tracking your stats to discovering new talents. Throughout this season, we'll be showcasing chart metric data to reveal insights about our featured artists like how Noah Khan is currently the top performing artists from Vermont by Spotify monthly listeners. Plans start as low as $10 a month. Learn more and get started today at chartmetric.com. Let me tell you about ASCAP. ASCAP is America's only creator-first performing rights organization

and the only one that operates on a not-for-profit basis. They were founded by songwriters, composers, and they're still governed by them today. ASCAP's main job is to pay you royalties when songs you write are streamed, broadcast on radio, or TV, or played live. And they're so good at collecting royalties that in 2023, they distributed a record $1.592 billion to ASCAP members. But they do other things too. In fact, they go to Washington all the time to advocate for your songwriter rights, which is more important than ever in the age of AI. ASCAP represents over 975,000 members, including this episode's guest, Maggie Lindeman. If you are a songwriter or composer, ASCAP is where you belong.

You can learn more about joining ASCAP at ASCAP.com forward slash why join and follow at ASCAP on socials. Welcome to And The Writer is, I am your host, Ross Golan. Today's future superstars journey to stardom began on, the World Wide Web. At a young 17 years old, she was quickly noticed by fans and industry professionals alike and has since accumulated more than a billion streams,

sold out her first headlining tour, spearheaded her own clothing line, and started her own podcast, proving that she's not just a pretty girl, but an entrepreneurial artist. All the way from San Antonio, Texas, because it's summer, this advocate's metamorphosis

has captivated audiences around the world and empowered young women to own their truth in the face of societal pressures. The writer is Maggie Lindemann. Hey. Hello. So, okay, full disclosure, this is the first time we're meeting.

So hi. Hello. Nice to meet you. Yes, nice to meet you too. Why Texas? I'm from Texas. Yeah. And my boyfriend's from Texas.

So we just decided to go to the same. Texas. Got it. Are you like multi-generational Texan? Did I do your grandparents from there? So my like dad is Okay so both I'm pretty sure both my family's from Texas

but my mom like moved around a lot and then ended up back in Texas. Okay. So yes I think. You were raised in Dallas though, right? So until I was 14, I lived in Dallas. And then family moved to San Antonio. And then I moved. move to L.A.

And then, but, like, when I go home to visit, it's San Antonio. So I claim San Antonio. Got it. Do you is, I just assume everyone in San Antonio spends every night on Riverwalk, but it's probably a cliche. Yeah. Where in San Antonio do you live? Like, I live in a spot, like, kind of outside Bernie, which is just like a little town,

like outside of San Antonio. When I think of Texas, I don't think of rock music, which is not fair because there's a lot of rock music there. But it's, you know, it's the South, you know? Yeah. You know, when you grew up, what music were your parents listening to? Rock. So my dad loves, like, indie rock, alternative rock. He loves, like, all alternative.

and then my mom is like very hardcore like she likes metal really yeah like metal music and then my brother like who um so I listened to a lot of like disturbed growing up um

we listen to like Evanescence was one of my favorites growing up my mom like really liked Evanescence um Lincoln Park was one of them And then my dad was like very, he likes Caged the Elephant. Oh, cool.

I'm so bad with names off top of my head, but stuff like that. And then like my mom likes Nirvana and I don't know. When I think of people in your age group, I don't assume that they play instruments. I assume that they're probably really computer savvy. A lot of people say that the first instrument people get now are computers. But you actually play instruments. How old were you when you were? There's one thing to listen to music is another one thing to actually want to create music or play music.

Was it sort of like, hey, you need to practice? Or was it something that was like, oh, I want to play music? So when I was pretty young, my grandparents had like an electric piano in their room. So we were there a lot because they lived really close to us. So I would always go to my grandparents' house and just go to their room and play on the piano. And my grandpa is actually very, very musically talented. Like he is self-taught, like amazing at piano. So he can just do everything by ear.

So like when I was little, I was like, oh, I can play by ear. And I would like watch YouTube videos and just like try to learn. So like early on I was really into piano. I took a lot of piano lessons. I really, really wanted to play piano. And then as I got a little older, I realized, like, I really liked guitar. And I wanted to play guitar. So I started taking lessons and doing that whole thing.

And, yeah, I just, like, enjoyed it. Were you good at it? I mean, I wouldn't call myself, like, a pro, but I can, you know, I can play. How soon were you, I mean, now I knew you can play. But at the time, you know, you were playing all these instruments. When did you realize, oh, you know, Maybe you're, we know a lot of people who sit at a piano and playing around, but there's some people where it's like, hey, that person's actually really good at it,

or that person can sing, or that person, you know, how soon were people saying, you should keep making music? So I only really had, I used to be really shy when it came to singing, so I never sang in front of my family. I never sang in front of anyone. There was only, I don't know, I was just like really shy at first. Even when I first started making music and I would have shows, I was so shy. I just had really bad stage right and I just hated singing in front of people.

Even now, when people are like, oh, can you sing for me? No, definitely not. I'm not about to start singing for you. But I just, I don't know, I was just really shy. So I only had one friend growing up that actually ever heard me sing. And she was the one who was like, you should post singing videos and you should actually like sing in front of people and let your voice be heard. So that's the reason I started uploading videos. And I didn't know I could actually sing or I had any sort of musical talent

until my manager ended up finding me when I was 16. Who was your friend? Her name was Morgan. Do you still send her songs? No, I don't. But, you know, we still follow each other on Instagram. I still check up on her every now and then. So your manager finds you at 16 years old.

But it wasn't through the same sort of normal channels. you were posting on sort of, you know, what was, it's keek, right? Keek, yeah. What is Keek? So. And why are you uploading to that? So before Instagram had videos, there was an app called Keek where a lot of people, this is before Vine too.

So there was a lot of people posting videos on keek. It was kind of like a linked thing. So like you could go to someone's Instagram and find their keek. And it was like, I don't remember, but it was like kind of linked. So it was basically the video app for Instagram. So I would upload my videos there and then people could find my Instagram or like whatever else. But it was just the only video app at the time. Obviously there was YouTube, but that was like a whole other type of like uploading and doing stuff.

So I just used to keek. You've been very vocal about, you know, what a woman has to go through. being a musician versus not just being a man or any gender, but the idea of posting videos of you doing music and people looking at you as something different. How soon after releasing videos did you recognize that duality and that complexity? I think it started

when I started putting music out because it was, one side of it was people just were like, oh, you're like a social media artist, which I think now it's funny because everyone's a social, like literally everyone starts out on social media. There's like, that's the way to go now.

But at the time, it was kind of like still new. So people were like not taking me seriously in that way. And then, people were saying I was just doing it because like why not? Like, oh, I can make music, why not? And then the whole thing with like, oh, you're just people only focusing on me because like my face

are like they don't care about my music at all. They just want to look in my face or like following me on Instagram and like my pictures. So I think when I started releasing music is when I really felt that. Wait, why did you feel it when you were releasing music? Was it? Because like before that, I would do singing videos and stuff,

but I don't think people really like, I don't know, it wasn't a thing where people were commenting saying, like, oh, we just want to see your face or whatever. It wasn't that yet. I think when I started releasing music, people just started being more mean about it. I don't know. Do you read comments?

I do. I try not to, but not on everything, but I used to look up my name on Twitter and read that stuff, but it's just not, I can't read that stuff anymore. but I do read Instagram sometimes. How do you cope with that? Because even if I read comments for, you know, it's like it can be difficult.

Yeah. Especially because it's not like, you know, you can release songs. And, you know, if you're a musician, like that's what the whole, that's the goal is to release music. Yeah. And then it's like the comments just reduce everything down to something cheap. Yeah. Definitely. I think for me, I've come a long way with hate. I used to be really, really sensitive to it. I just, anything would upset me. But I think now I've realized, like, I've put in so much work. My whole life is music. I don't, everything I do is music. Everything I do is around music. I work really hard. And I think when I put out music and if I read a comment that says something negative about my music,

or says I get a industry plan, or stupid comments like that. And it's just like I know the work I put in. Like if I was an industry plan, I would hope to be way bigger than I am. Like, you know? So when I read these type of comments, I think I just know my value at this point

and know how much work I put into stuff that I don't let that kind of stuff bother me. I think what bothers me more is like when people comment about me personally, the music you can comment on because I'm releasing that to the world. I expect people to comment on it. It's when people say stuff about me personally that I don't.

That bothers me. Yeah, it's so weird that every, you know, I've been trying to wrestle with the idea that a critic, if everyone's a critic, that's fine, but just the word critic is so negative. It's like this idea that you're supposed to give a critique. Yeah. And not be, you know, like, oh, we're all appreciators.

I mean, it would be so nice. people are like, you know what's great about her songs? The guitar parts are actually really cool. And then you can be like, you know, maybe it's, I wish the bridge was different. But now people lead with, oh, that song, the bridge is crap.

You know, whatever it is. It's like nobody really takes the time to actually say, oh, man, I actually appreciate the effort that it takes to be in the ring. You know, to like be, you know, I don't know, just to be part of the creation.

Let's just go to, you know, back a little bit. So Gerald, your manager, shout out Gerald. He's in one room over. You know, he finds you and he says, you know, you could do this. Why was that the, how does that go from that to, you know, knocking on your heart coming out? You know, what's the process from somebody saying, you know, hey, I want to be. your manager to actually a song coming out. So he had actually emailed me twice.

And at the time, my parents were basically my managers. Like, they were monitoring emails and stuff like that. So my dad had actually seen the email and deleted it because he didn't think it was real. Or he was like, Maggie can't sing. Like, what are you talking about? So, because I don't even, maybe I'm wrong about this, but I don't even think my parents knew I was uploading singing videos. I did not tell my parents stuff like that

that was very private like that was my personal like I didn't share stuff like that at school like people knew at school but it was something I wasn't like vocally expressing so I think when he got that email he was just like what are you talking about

so he deleted it and then he ended up emailing again and my mom had seen it and my mom was like oh my God we have to go to L.A. like this is an opportunity so we went and met with him at Capitol Records for the first time, which was really cool.

And so met with him and then met back up with him another time. And that was when they put me in a studio and, like, heard me sing for the first time. And then after that day, it was just, like, work all the time. It was going to vocal lessons, like, two times, three times a week. I was, like, trying to learn piano again, like, trying to get back into that. Just like a lot of stuff like that, just trying to learn stuff, music. And then it was recording a lot of stuff and trying to learn how to hit notes, right, and do all that.

And then the music game. Going into studios versus, you know, shooting a video of yourself are so different. Yeah. I don't think people realize, you know, it can take you weeks to record a three-minute song. it takes you three minutes or record a three minute video, you know, even if you're really good at it, you know? It may be even the better you are, the longer it takes, because you mean, it was just weird.

I mean, having headphones on and, like, hearing yourself, and now it's funny because it's just so, I just do it all the time, but at the time it was so foreign, it just sounded weird, and I didn't, everything was just weird. When, you know, knocking on your heart, it does pretty well. It certainly was like, okay, we're really, leasing of something, but there's, you know, a couple of kids, which is the next single does, you know, four times as many streams and whatnot. It starts to sort of, I don't know, I shouldn't say

like legitimize, but any of those people who were haters before, it starts to become, well, you know, 54 million streams can't, doesn't just happen because people are, you know, people like to look at someone because they like to listen to someone. Yeah. did you find that to be, was that validating or was it something where it's like, I still have more to prove? I mean, what, you know, or is it both? It was super validating, but yeah,

I mean, I definitely didn't feel like an artist at that point. I felt like there was so much to do. And I also wasn't fully confident in the stuff I was doing it. I was just kind of, like when I listened back to that music, it sounds very starter, you know, my first two songs. I wasn't an artist yet. I was just making music.

But I think I just knew I wanted to do so much more. I just didn't really know what that was yet. So, yeah, I don't know. I felt like I had so much work to do still. Yeah, I mean, I don't want to fast forward where I have questions on the, you know, being an artist is a choice.

There's lots of singers. There's lots of people doing covers. There's lots of people doing songs. But, you know, being an artist means this is who I am. I'm really like who I am. And who you are has evolved significantly from the beginning. You know, without giving away too much, when did you feel like you were an artist?

When do you make that choice? And did somebody say, hey, you should make a choice? No. Or was it natural? It was natural. I felt like I was finally an artist when I did my EP. Yeah. And that makes sense.

Yeah. Was it the aesthetic that went along with that or the music? It was everything. It was my after, like I was really happy for kind of the first time when I did like would I and human. I was really happy with those songs. But I still didn't feel like I was as connected yet. And then I just had like this big life moment happen. and I just decided that if I wasn't doing exactly what I want to do, why am I doing this?

What was that, a life moment? So I went on an Asia tour, and the first stop on the tour, I was arrested. And I just remember I was so mad because I was like, damn, I'm going through this crazy stuff right now. And I'm not even really happy with what I'm doing. I love making music. I love performing. Like, I love doing all this stuff, but I'm not doing what I want to do. I'm just doing it so that I can do it.

So it was just this moment that I was like, I don't want to do this if it's not fun for me in every aspect. And so after that is when I finally was like, I'm making music. I want to make, like, label, if you don't want me to make this music with you guys. Like, we can go our separate ways, but I want to make this music. I'm very, I like the way I dress. Like, I have so many ideas. I don't want to make this type of music. So that's when everything switched.

I started making the EP and it all just kind of like fell in together. I felt like the aesthetic, the music, just everything just came together and I felt finally like I had my own thing that I'm comfortable in. Yeah, I have my own identity. I'm like all over the place here,

but in a segment called what would Lolo ask Maggie Lindenman on and the writer is Lolo says to she asked she said look

you know I think you should ask about how she used to how she started out so bubble gum with their song Pretty Girl

and then the story of how that came out and the story how cheat codes redid it and then you know she was asking about how

what we just talked about but going back to Pretty Girl, which was sort of the big song, you know, as Lolo asked, you know, or at least suggested, you know, tell me about the story of how it came out and how Cheez-Caz re-did it. So with Pretty Girl, it was like, that's when I was going through the whole thing of, I felt like no one was taking me seriously. And everyone just kind of looked at me as just someone on Instagram who decided to make music.

And it was really frustrating because I started out making singing videos. Like when I first got on Instagram in like 2012, 2013, I was posting videos of me singing. So never, like, yes, I was posting pictures of myself also, but I wasn't just on Instagram doing that. Like I was actually singing. I wanted to sing. So when people started saying that I was just putting out music because that's what people do when they're like, oh, I have followers, like, now I'm going to release music.

It was like really upsetting to me. and people were just saying, oh, like, we don't want to hear your music, we just want to see your face, stuff like that. It was just really bothering me because it was just something I really wanted to do. I love music and I really wanted to make music. So that's kind of how Pretty Girl came about the lyrics and everything.

We just, I was like making tweets about it and Pretty Girl actually came from some of my tweets. So that's how it was crafted. And then it was out for a little. bit and Cheekodes was on my label. So it was some, I don't know, I don't know how. It just ended up happening. They were like, yeah, we'll do a remix. We had no idea. It was going to do what it did.

Like, I don't think anyone had any idea. So crazy. Yeah, no one knew. It was going to do that at all. So once that started happening, immediately just, I had never done festivals. I had never even done shows. shows. Like I think maybe I had done like one little show before and then pretty girls started popping off and it was like you have to fly to Norway and you're going to perform in front of 90,000 people singing this song. I had never done anything like that before. I had like no practice.

I think maybe we had like two days of rehearsals. Like I'd never done anything like that before. Even if if that, I don't even remember if we even did rehearsals. Because I just walked out singing one song like that's all I did and um I remember like everything just happened really really really fast and people were it was just like terrible it was like the hate was crazy because I had no experience and I think still now with a lot of artists things pop off so fast like TikTok pops off songs so fast it could be an artist that had just uploaded like one song in their life and now they have like hundreds of millions of streams and they're expected to be like a perfect artist. So that started

happening and it was just, it was so fun because I was going to like all these places and doing all this really, really cool stuff but it was like, I'm a brand new artist. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't, I'm not even an artist. I just like made a song and it happened

to go crazy. Thanks to you know, so yeah, that's how that's how all that happened. If you're a songwriter or composer, you have to join a performing rights organization or PRO. Performance royalties are an essential part of your income. If not, your only income. ASCAP is America's first PRO and the only one that operates on a not-for-profit

basis, which means the money they collect goes to their songwriters, composers and music publishers, not outside investors, not big corporations. And ASCAP supports you in a lot of different ways, even beyond the royalties. They run workshops, panels, and networking events, all. the time. They've got tons of resources on their website to help you learn about the music industry. They've even got a wellness program. I really respect that ASCAP is a true democracy. ASCAP members elect their board of directors and the board is made up of music writers and publishers like you. They've got over 975,000 members, including our guest, Maggie Lindeman. You can learn more about joining ASCAP at ASCAP.com

forward slash why join and follow at ASCAP on socials. Hey guys, Pier Music is a leading music publishing and neighboring rights company that has been championing songwriters and artists for nearly 100 years. Their musical journey began with a revolutionary ANR man named Ralph S. Pier, who is widely credited with the first Latin recording, the first blues recording, and, of course, the Big Bang of Country Music the Bristol Sessions. Peer music has built their company

on their unwavering devotion to music creators and performers, and to this day, is still championing songwriters and promoting songs of cultural importance. Pure music represents some of the biggest names in music including our former guest, Poo-Ber, David Lee Murphy, David Foster, Nothing with These, Gabby Moreno, Shaiyan, the tragically hip, and many, many more. And peer music neighboring

rights represents 300 record labels and more than 3,000 artists including Billy Ilish, Imagine Dragons, Martin Garrick's, David Gatid, Metallica, Megan the Stallion, her and Stromé. So, if you want to learn more about a global music publishing and neighboring rights company that moves with integrity and treats their roster

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So there's no math required. Use it to find out things about your favorite artists and any of the artists and writers on this podcast. Plans start as low as $10 a month. Learn more. And get started today at chartmetric.com. Going and performing for 90,000, I mean, if you said 3,000, it would be a lot. Yeah.

You know, it's like, it's one person. You can't really, can't really digest how many people that is. Stepping out on a stage with little experience and then performing in front of, you know, 90,000 people or whatever. Were you nervous or is it such a big number that you don't even? have the ability to feel. Oh my God, no, I was so nervous. I was so excited, but I was so nervous. Also, my mic wasn't working, like, in the beginning.

So that didn't help. Like, I walked out and I'm singing, and, like, my mic isn't on. And I just was panicking. I was, like, literally about to start crying because this is my first thing. I'm embarrassing myself right now. And it was just really scary, but I remember having so much fun.

I had so much fun. I sounded terrible. Like, I looked terrible. I sounded terrible. It was terrible, but it was so fun. I just had so much fun. And that was the first time I had heard people singing the song. Like I, because my mic wasn't working, so my ears were just, like, I could hear everything.

And everyone was singing so loud. And that was the first moment that I realized, like, oh, my God. Like, this is real. People actually know the song. Like, that's crazy. You wrote that song with Sasha Sloan and Sean Meyer. Shout out guys. Yes.

Good people. Jason, great producer. Were you able to, I guess there's one thing again where you're releasing music. It's another one when you're starting to co-write with people and celebrate wins like that kind of song. How, one, how did you, how and why did you start collaborating with outside? writers. And did you find in that experience of performing in front of all those people, did you ever have moments of, I don't know, recalling like the writing process? You know what I mean? Are you ever like how crazy it is that all these people are singing to this song?

Yeah. And then bringing yourself back to like, well, how we wrote this in nowhere. Yeah, it was like, also shout out Kate because he was a big, part of Pretty Girl too. He killed it. But, yeah, I don't know. I feel like just... Because that song literally came from tweets. So it's like thinking about me just tweeting, like, guys, whatever I tweeted, I don't even

remember. But going from something like that to then being on stage in front of all these people hearing it, yeah, it's just always such a crazy experience because in the room you never anticipate what it could be, I think. You're just in the moment and writing a song just as therapy. You don't know how crazy it's going to go. Well, especially, you know, I imagine, I think that for the billion stream club on Spotify, I want to say there's like 100 songs, 110 songs or something.

It's not a lot of songs. Yeah. So even if you think this is going to, this is song's great. Yeah. If your benchmark is, you know, a song that has 50,000 streams, or even though, you know, the original was 100,000, which is a Spotify hit for what that is. Or sorry, 100 million.

You know, if you have 50 million or 100 million, you know, to do 10 times that, it's just like, it's just such a different level. You know, you don't really write from the perspective of, already knowing. So, of course, it's a surprise. Yeah, it was crazy. It obviously did well in all different kinds of countries. And you got to travel in these different countries.

How did traveling and performing this song in all these places influence how you were writing after that? Well, so after Pretty Girl, it was kind of like I needed to obviously. follow-up. But for so long, I think one thing that went really wrong with my artistry after Pretty Girl

was pushing Pretty Girl for so long and having me do so much for Pretty Girl without me like going back into the studio sooner and like writing another song.

Because for Pretty Girl it was just constant doing things for this one song which is important to work a song but if you don't follow up with another song very quickly, that's when you kind of, it ends.

So I think that was one thing that went really wrong with that whole thing was just not coming out with another song sooner because after that I released Obsessed. And I think Obsessed is a really great pop song. I think that's a really good song, but it just waited so long after Pretty Girl to come out. Is that because you didn't have the other songs written recorder? or is that because the label was dragging their feet

on releasing something that follows up? It was a little bit of both. Obsessed didn't get, that was so long ago. But Obsessed wasn't even a thing until way later. Like it was not ready, it was not written, it was like nothing. So I think that, but then it was a little bit of dragging just because we were still like in the pretty girl mindset. But, yeah, it was just a little bit of everything.

It was like, yeah, it was a lot. Well, shout out Lolo for the heads up. Okay, so you were saying human and would I sort of, you know, become the first moment where you're like, oh, now I know who I am. Yeah. Do you have expectations? What I love about it is like here you're saying who I am. It's so different than pretty girl.

Yeah. Do you have expectations in, I don't want to say, like repeating the success? Because success isn't, if the success is the writing, then you're achieving it. Yeah. The success is the numbers. Then at that time, it's like, okay, well, now I'm releasing songs that are my identity. Do you feel like those, is the goal to have those mix, or is it like, I don't care about, I don't care about the pretty girl.

experience. Now my goal is to be you know I'm gonna, you know, I guess I'm trying to figure how do you grapple with those things. I think that was so after obsessed

what I and human I sat on those songs for so long because there was a very constant internal battle of okay I know what I'm capable of doing and I know what will work for me, but I'm so unhappy doing it. I'm so unhappy going

and performing Pretty Girl and Obsessed, not because they're not great songs. Like, they're good songs just not for me. There were good songs for someone else who wanted to make that type of music. But I just felt like for me, I would get on stage and I don't dance. Like, I'm not a dancer. Those songs, like, you know, when I hear those songs, I think there's backup dancers and I have like a little choreo and you know what I mean so I would perform those songs and I just felt so awkward and out of place I felt like I had no idea what I was doing I looked stupid and so I was in this constant battle of I know what I'm capable of but am I happy and I'm so miserable right now I was so depressed because I just felt so lost like I had no identity I had no idea who I was

at this point I think I'm like 19 or 20 and I'm like okay I'm like getting older I need to to like figure out who I am. So that's why it took so long. I just was in this battle of like, do I want to just be successful and rich and have money and be able to travel and do all this stuff? Or do I want to be happy?

And I just went with being happy. And so when I put out, would I in human, I literally had no expectations for the songs. I had no idea what they were going to do and I really didn't care. I just wanted to do something that I felt good about.

and the reaction from what I was like, I think exactly what I needed to even push further into who I am because people, like real, like other artists that I would never have expected to like reach out to me, like reached out about that song, just being like, wow, this is so good. Like, this is like a real song. Yeah, authenticity is really obvious to people who make music all the time.

but the thing is it's not like Pretty Girl isn't authentic but I think when you when you dive deeper and deeper and deeper the more vulnerable you are I keep trying to get artists to go be vulnerable

it's okay if the song doesn't even come out at least for the day when we write when we write let's write from a vulnerable place and then at least you'll feel good when you leave the studio you know because you don't really know what you're going to get

exactly Travis Barker. He's so fun to work with. He's so talented. You know, to get that co-sign at that point, especially with what Travis was starting to go through as a producer. I feel like that sort of changes, you know, getting, at least from my perspective,

as I'm sure your parents probably lost their minds. You know, and they knew. But, you know, that feels like having that kind of cosine legitimizes this new direction that you went in. I mean, maybe it comes before that, but something like that changes it. How did Travis get involved? So when we had friends go,

so I went to New York and I did, like, I performed for my label. And someone from, I don't know exactly what happened, but someone had called him and FaceTimed him and they were like Maggie come out we have someone wants to talk to you went out he was on the phone and I guess they had asked him if he would do a remix

I'm not really sure but I was he was like I would love to do a remix on the song and make it feel a little bit more rocky because the song was like Skaw had a lot of like no doubt influence so he was like like we can make it more rock or whatever. And I was like, okay, yeah, obviously, like, I would love to do this.

Yes, please, let's do this. So then I flew back and I went into the studio with him and literally, like, he did one pass of drums and it was amazing. And we all had come out. Like, I had a video person, like a photographer, everything. And we all went out to the studio and he literally did one pass. And we were like, well, like, I had. I guess it's done. Do you want to do it again? He did it again. It was perfect. So we're like,

okay, well, I guess we're done. I don't know. But, yeah, having that co-sign was crazy at the time because I really wanted to make that music. I just didn't know how to ease into it. So that song was the first time. Like, I remember getting a comment, this comment has stuck with me that was like, you always use the Travis Barker remix on all of your, like, promotional videos, like get another song or something. And I thought that was so funny because I was like, this is the first song that I have done that I felt like was authentic. Like, this is me. So I was using it for literally everything until I came out with something else. So that was, yeah, the first time I just felt like, okay, I can do it. Jumping to Moons and Stars. Big, big song. How do you feel about

featuring on records as opposed to being the you know there's sometimes where you know the low-low song like you guys did it together it's like there's sometimes it's sometimes yours sometimes you're a feature yeah how do you feel about um how does that change you know do you care if you're the feature on it do you care if you're the lead you know no i like i like featuring on songs i will only feature on a song if i like really like the song um so i like all the features I've done, I've really liked the songs. And I love snot, Lolo. Like,

everyone I've done features with has been really cool. So, yeah, I don't mind. Like, I love doing features. It's less work for me, too, to go in and film a music video or whatever. Like, it's fun, because it's not on me. Like, I don't have to make sure everything's, you know, in place. So it's usually just a fun experience. It's hard to think that paranoia, which comes out in 2021, was like your first non-single. Yeah. Why did it take so long to release a compilation of songs? So there had been so many times where I had made an EP

and had enough songs to make an EP and then I was like, yeah, I don't like this. So the whole thing was, it was singles for a while. And I think being with a label, it was like, okay, she's a singles artist. So for a while it was like single single singles and then we were making an EP and then I stopped making the EP and then Just a lot of issues in between just personally and in music So it just never got to a point where there was an EP

But then I I got out I signed to a distribution in 2020 And I don't know, I just was like that was the moment I was working working so much. And that was like the first time I had full creative control too. So everything I was writing was actually coming from me. And had no one was editing it. No one was, it was all me.

So I'm really glad. Even though it took so long, I'm really glad that was the first time I made an EP because if I had put out an EP before this, I don't think I would have liked it at all. And I think I would be really upset. She knows it is a song that is really about coming out and I mean it's not only about that but that's part of it again feeling like going back to the pretty girl era and before that

where you talk about how people kind of pigeonhole you and they sort of say well you should be this or you should be that or they judge what you look like and the way you sound. Did you find that people were generally supportive of coming out? Or do you find that people were continuing to be judgmental? Or was it a bit of both? I think when I had originally came out, it was like, I think I came out in like 2016.

I think I had like maybe just turned 18. So when I had originally came out, the video, like, I don't even want to talk about it. I was like so cringe. But at the time, it was just, I did it like on live. And I was like crying and stuff. Because it is an emotional, like, experience to come out. It's scary. You don't know how people are getting to react.

So I think it was mostly very supportive. But I think because I was crying. I hate that I was crying. Okay, I am not a person to cry on the internet. Like I do not cry on the internet But it was just an emotional experience And at this time I was very still like on social Like I would like go live and do that

And like talk and stuff like that So I think like at the time I was still like I didn't think before I did things So like I was like oh I'm gonna come out on live Like this is gonna be great And then I'm very emotional So like the minute I started talking about I started crying

So I think people Some people I remember were very like Oh this is very attention seeking Like she's definitely just doing this for attention or whatever it was just for attention. But I think for the most part, people were really supportive of it. And then now it's not even a thing. Yeah, right.

Just, you know, don't even care anymore. It's whatever. Are all generations the same? Or is it that this generation is more open to it? And all other generations were always like this, but they just didn't have the vocabulary or the ability to do it. Or is it that this generation has the way to discuss it and also this is part of the evolution of society? Well, I think this new generation, like maybe the generation below me, is really accepting.

This is definitely a different, we're saying like a shift for sure. So I think, I don't know, I think this new generation is really open to everything. They seem to be very accepting and open and stuff. but I think my generation too, I think, is pretty accepting, like, for the most part. But in 2016, there was still the generation above me that was, you know what I mean? So it wasn't just coming out to these, like, kids now. It's coming out to the people above me and older than me. So I think that's what was kind of scary because, like, even texting my mom and my dad was really scary.

and my brother finding out. How did they all react? They were fine. Because I texted them. I didn't call them or anything. I just texted them. What did you say? So I texted them.

It's so stupid. Like this is just a young person being so impulsive. So right before I went live, I texted my parents. And I was like, I'm fast to go live. And I just want you guys to know. Like, I like girls, whatever. and I don't want you to hate me or I don't remember exactly what I said but I was like I don't want you to hate me or like think of me any differently like oh blah blah blah like I hope you guys still love me or something and they texted me back like what are you talking about like of course we still love you like we don't care we're happy that you told us whatever like I'm very very grateful that my parents were accepting about it because I grew up very religious and a lot of people around me aren't accepting of that and I didn't obviously I know my parents

but you don't know certain things like I don't know how they're going to react because I've never seen them react to that so I think I was just scared because I didn't know if they were going to be like oh that's not godly or like we don't want to prove of that or whatever but they didn't they were

really really accepting and were there people what religion was it Catholicism is it Christian? Just Christian yeah were were there people that were part of that community that weren't accepting?

I mean, I'm sure there were, but ones that you were close with? So, yes. So my best friend growing up, I don't remember where grade I was in. I think maybe going into ninth grade, like summer of eighth going into ninth, I had this friend, and it was like,

so girls will. kiss each other like sometimes like your friend like you give them like I love you like a little peck or something and it truly like okay so I had posted this picture on Instagram this is in like 2013 and I was like pecking my friend or something I don't even remember it was so stupid I'm like in eighth grade right um and I posted it I don't even remember but I did this and my friend my best friend at the time had texted me and was like this is disgusting like I can not support you if this is what you're doing. Like, I love you, but like, we can't be friends anymore, basically. And at the time, like, I knew I liked girls, you know, I think there was

a little bit of, and that, I'm pretty sure that girl ended up coming out too. Like, I don't want to put her out there about her. I'm pretty sure she came out too. So there was definitely a little, like, hidden gayness, but I think at the time, it, like, I was just, like, a friend pick. I didn't think of it. This is also like 2012, 2013. Like, you know, I didn't think anything of it. I'm like a kid. So, yeah, she had, like, said that and that stuck with me for so long. Just after that, I was, like, so in the closet, like, never again would do this. I think after that is maybe when I started, like, I don't even hug people anymore. I'm very, like, to myself. Like, I don't like being touched. I don't like hugging. I don't like anything. So it, like,

really, really affected me, like really bad. Do you think that being, sort of being kind of like, kind of forced in the closet in that moment, is that, is there a, it can't be a coincidence that as you realize, oh, I don't want to be this kind of artist, I want to be this kind of artist, and in order to do this kind of art, I need to be more authentic. And therefore I need to be more open about who I am.

It seems like the whole aesthetic, sonically, visually, everything that you've done, it's like the line almost happens right when you're like, no, this is who I really am. Yeah. And it's good to know your family was accepting. Yeah, I'm like really blessed in that way. I think my family, my mom is still religious. You know, she goes to church all the time, whatever. But they're very accepting.

I'm really lucky. Are you religious? I wouldn't say I'm very religious. You know, I believe and whatever, but I'm not religious. Is some of that the nature of being, is any of that because of music? I think moving to L.A. when I was 16. and experiencing a completely different side of life. So I'm from Dallas, but I went,

I only did high school one year in Dallas, like half a year in Dallas, and then I moved to Bernie, which is a small town. Now it's growing, but at the time it was like a small town in Texas. And it's a very religious town too. So I think going from that and then going to L.A.

was a huge eye-opening experience. I experienced so much, so much different, like just a completely different life. And, I mean, that's like a whole, that could be a whole other conversation. But I feel like for me, I just realized a lot of stuff. And, yeah, I think music has like a little to do with it. I just, I don't know. I just don't, I don't know. Sucker punch.

You go, you know, this point. the logical next step would be to do an album were you intentionally at that point being like okay I'm done with the EPs I'm done it's like just like the one-off singles I need to do it like was it why do a whole album and why now you hadn't done one before that I think I was just ready to do one I had so many songs like I had been working on paranoia for a year or something and I had made so many songs.

I was literally in the studio every single day for like a little over a year. And that, like I said, that was like the first time I was really, I'd been writing before, but that was the first time I was writing. Like, everything was me and I didn't have, like I was writing with people,

but I wasn't, I had no influence. Like, it was literally all coming from me. And the writers I was writing with, it was like me telling them like, oh, I want to do this instead of them kind of like leading me. So it was the first. time I was just really doing it. And then I think after paranoia, I only had maybe like a couple weeks in between that and the writing of Sucker Punch that I didn't do anything. So I was just ready to

start writing again. And we just had so many songs that I liked that I was like, yeah, it's just it's an album. In this segment called, what would Paris Carney ask Maggie Lindeman? Paris says, she asks, she goes, I'm curious if you have any tips on how to maintain your authenticity in a world of people that might be inspired by your art and start to copy it.

Well, my thing is, I think it's natural to draw inspiration from people. Like, I draw inspiration from people. But I think it's about making it your own. Like, you can't, I don't know, copying someone. It's just you can only go so far being someone else. Like, you'll never, I think everyone as an artist,

I don't want to speak for everyone, but I think for me as an artist, a huge thing is like, I want to leave a mark that's my own. I want people to hear a certain sound and be like, oh, that's like Maggie Lindemann. I want people to hear my music and immediately know it's me. And I want to do something that is recognizable. So I don't know.

I feel like as an artist, that's like a huge thing. So I think if you want the same thing, you can't copy. You can draw inspiration, but you have to like make it your own. What's next? Another project. What's that going to sound like? I have no idea. I'm working on it right now.

But with everything I've done, I have no idea how it's going to sound. Like I'm just working and just making music. and then later on is when I start I hear everything as a whole and I'm like

okay I know how I want everything to sound like I want how I want the production and stuff but like sucker punch all those songs kind of sounded same with paranoia like everything sounded a little similar and then we went back in

and like destroyed everything and made everything sound way different where do you see yourself in 10 years I really want to be touring still I really want to do bigger tours I mean a dream would be to do like arenas,

amphitheaters, stuff like that I hope I'm just happy and I hope I'm still making music I want to make and I hope in my personal life I'm still really happy What do you say to a kid a girl in Dallas, Texas, who's 13 years old, who's going to, who really likes playing music,

but doesn't really know what to do with it. Well, I would say upload videos of you playing music because what the worst people could do is say no, like the worst that could happen if someone says no. But I think you have to put yourself out there in music. It's not something that is going to come to you by hiding. So put yourself out there. Don't listen to what other people say.

That's my number one thing always I say to people. Do not listen to what other people say. You can listen to opinions, but you don't need to listen to opinions. So I think just be yourself. Authenticity is what gets you far. And don't listen to what people say, especially older people in the industry say. Be yourself. All right.

So in this next segment, Five for five. Those five things. Just tell me what comes out the top of your head. Okay. The National Anthem. Timberwolves. I like that.

Sick. Keek. Singing. Your clothing line. Swicks. You have a podcast, too. Yeah. So your podcast.

Weird. Wait, extrapolate a little bit. I say weird because it's just me talking and I just ramble and I just talk. I don't know. It's like, it's weird. Your mom. Love. It's so interesting that, you know,

here's somebody who likes, like you're saying, deaf tones and, like in park. You know, what you're doing now, I always say that I got my first record deal. Once I started writing music, my parents didn't like. Okay. You know, because I think I tried to make music that they liked for a long time. Yeah. And then I started making music that my dad was like, I don't get this.

And then I got a record deal, like right away. Yeah. It's like, huh. Here's almost the exact opposite. It's like I feel like the music that I imagine knowing what she, what her, like Sonic palette is that by it when you're releasing those first couple songs there's no way that she was probably very supportive but it's not really the you know music she listens to but now it's like I bet they only listen to your music oh yeah I mean I so my brother's birthday because my brother's

huge in it too so um my brother's birthday was the same time I was playing aftershock and so I took him to aftershock and he like everyone we saw like like Papa Roach, Slipknot, Evanescence. Oh my God, we saw literally everyone. There was a band, like, he took me to see that I'd never heard of. It was like an orchestra. They're like an orchestral metal something. I'd never heard of them.

And it was so cool. Like, it was the coolest thing ever. But, I mean, he was like so hype on that. And my parents were supposed to come, but they didn't end up being able to come. And they were like so hurt. But anytime I have a, I do a festival and it's like, Rob Zombie or Evanescence or Papa Roach or like any of these people my parents are like, can we come?

Like they get so excited. So it's really cool to have my parents. Like now my mom came to the shows, a couple of the shows. And like my mom is like dancing around like going crazy. And it's so cool to see it because like when I did my other shows, obviously they're supportive, but they're just listening. So it's really cool to have that for sure. That's amazing.

Well, thank you for doing this. I know this is early on. and some in many ways in that you know hopefully we'll keep doing this and and check in every so often but you know it's it is really hard thinking of the advice you gave that young girls in Dallas my biggest fear is that all of those videos that I did when I was that age were would have come out because I was you know those songs that I probably started writing when I was 14 so like those first like five years I would write these songs that were just terrible and I was able to

not show anybody during it you know I mean that's a part of it and that you know I was able to kind of by the time I was like okay I'm ready to put something out for the most part most stuff that's out there is me a little more baked yeah yeah and it takes a bravery to do what you've done and to to be able to have the confidence to change your career trajectory so early is an advantage where you're at. And most people who try to do that

10 years later, it's too late. Yeah. And nobody wants to hear that new music. You did it gracefully at a really good time. And it's inspiring to a lot of people. And I wish you the best. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Yeah. This episode is produced by Joe London, Mega House Management, and myself. See you all next week. I'm Ross Golan, signing off.