And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan - Ep. 194: Camila Cabello

Episode Date: November 4, 2024

Today’s superstar has already dominated popular music for over a decade. What started as a simple talent show audition has become one of the most intriguing and eclectic careers in recent memory. Over the past decade, this writer has reshaped the sound of modern pop, seamlessly blending Latin, R&B, and contemporary influences into a unique musical style that resonates worldwide. Her genre-defying hits and dynamic collaborations reflect her multicultural upbringing and fearless approach to music, capturing hearts across both Pop and Latin music charts. And The Writer Is…Camila Cabello! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to And The Writer Is with Ross Golan. There are millions of singers, thousands of artists, and only 40 songs per genre at a time. These are the stories of the hottest creatives, the most venerable legends, artists, songwriters, executives, and more. Follow our socials and share your music with the and the Writer is community. We'll see you all there and now. Here's this week's episode. Chart metric is proud to sponsor the upcoming upcoming. season of and The Writer is.

As the go-to-source for up-to-date global social streaming and audience data for artists and music industry professionals, chart metrics strives to ensure everyone can have a successful career in music. They're easy

to understand and powerful analytics on over 10 million artists and 100 million tracks will help answer all of your questions from tracking your stats to discovering new talents. Throughout this season, we'll be showcasing chart metric data to reveal insights about our featured artists. Plans start as low as $10 a month.

Learn more and get started today at chartmetric.com. Today's podcast is brought to you by Ban Zougal. Built by musicians for musicians, Ban Zougal is an all-in-one platform that makes it easy to build a stunning website, an online store. for your music in minutes. All the features you need are already built in, including dozens of fully customizable templates, tools to sell your music and merch, commission-free, commission-free crowdfunding,

and fan subscription features, mailing lists, tools to grow your fan list, live support from their musician-friendly team seven days a week. Website plans start at just $8.29 a month, which includes hostings, and your own free custom domain name. Our podcast listeners can go to banzugal.com to try it free for 30 days and use the promo code ATWI for End the Writer is to get 15% off the first year of any subscription.

That's banzugal.com promo code ATWI. Welcome to And The Writer is. I'm your host, Ross Golan. Today's superstar has already dominated popular music for over a decade. What started as a simple audition has become one of the most intriguing and eclectic careers in recent memory. Her genre-bending discography reflects her international upbringing and diverse choices for collaborations. From girl group fame to solo success, this artist has earned countless accolades in both pop and Latin because of her fearless and creative process. hailing from Miami by way of Havana.

Today's guest is a true songwriter and a collaborator of the music community. And the writer is Camila Cabello. Yes. Ross. What a lovely introduction. You know? Those are really kind words.

Did you write that? I did, you know? That's really, really sweet. Seriously, thank you. I don't know. I'm looking at myself a little different now. Is it like, is it weird to hear people talk about your success? It's, um, it's not, it's not weird.

I, because I don't really think about it from a bird's eye view like that. I don't think about it. I don't talk about it that often with my team or with people. I don't hear it talked about from that perspective of like a whole career or like the past decade. It's always like the last album. or this specific moment. Or it's always like within the context of like that day or that month or that album cycle at most. It's never within that broader context.

So it was like refreshing. I was like, oh, wow. Oh, yeah. It has been an eclectic kind of fearless career. The fact that it's over a decade is pretty shocking to me. Yeah, it's crazy. That's where, you know, all of us keep our heads down. We're all doing our sessions.

We're all doing. You don't really look up, like you were saying, you don't look up and see what 12 years of releasing music is. It's so true because I feel like also we're always just thinking about, you know, what's the next thing and that kind of motion. But it's important just for yourself to contextualize and to take a moment to be like, that's why I think I love memoirs and I love like, you know, the idea of, I mean, this is totally, totally. really random segue, but the idea of like, I don't know, one day maybe like writing one just for, not for other people, but just for myself to like just contextualize your life and get out of like the kind of close up zoomed in view and more of, oh, wow, how did this day, this moment come to be and look at it from that like broader lens.

Do you journal? It's so funny that you say that because this morning I felt like there's different phases of my life where sometimes I feel like. I process feelings through talking to someone, like whether it's like a therapist or talking to my mom or talking to a friend. And lately, and then there's other times where I will write stuff down in my notes. Like if I'm feeling really stressed, I will just like write things down on my iPad or my notes. And this morning I was like, I need to get a journal and just like pen to paper, write stuff down. I don't know.

It's the first time I've really felt like that because before I felt like it was almost like, writing pen to paper felt frustrating because I felt like I actually use you. Yeah. Do you do you, when you're going through this idea of jotting down ideas, do you see yourself starting when you were saying the memoir part of your life? Like what point in your life can you start telling the story of you? It's so I honestly, I feel like, I feel really lucky. that even now I'm like, I have so many things that I want to do. And I'm like, oh, I have ideas for, you know, not like a whole maybe like album idea, even though I do have thoughts that will come in and be like, wow, this would, this sonically would be a really cool direction. This visually,

thematically would be a really cool direction. But, you know, even in like the past week, I'll write down like this would, this is a song that I feel like is important, like conceptually, storyline wise. And then I actually have like started writing. writing like kind of essay ideas. I write like maybe like a few every day because I do feel like I'm kind of old enough now where from the beginning of my life to now, I feel like there is, I don't know, there's like a cool kind of like essay book in there. So let's start from the beginning a little bit.

Obviously there's a lot of information about you in the universe and I know you've done other podcasts and whatnot. But let's just pretend that our listeners don't know some of the earliest parts. You are born in Cuba Yes To your mom and death Yeah so my yeah And my mom and dad

Who you just met My dad is from Mexico My mom is from Cuba And they met in Mexico Because my mom when she was around 25 moved to Mexico Just like her and her cousin And that's where she met my dad

And then she got pregnant with me Then they got married And then from when I was born to it till I was about seven years old, I moved back and forth from Cuba to Mexico. And then when I was seven, my mom and I came to, went to Miami. Why? Well, I think Mexico at that time didn't feel super safe for us. And Cuba felt like it was like the beginning of the demise. And, you know, I have a a lot of family there now and it's just like it's so tragic what's going on there now. Like I have family members who, you know, like I have like cousins who are like going to

Hyaliyah to like send medicine because people are like sick and there's no medicine in the hospitals and, you know, like just like lack of food, lack of medicine, lack of everything. So I think it was kind of like the beginning of that and beginning to see that there was like such an obvious ceiling in terms of education and opportunities and more practical stuff like food and power outages and stuff like that. So I think she had already known before she even had me a few years before that that wasn't a place that she had kind of like become disillusioned with what her country was becoming. And that's why at 25 she went to Mexico. But then, yeah, But then Mexico felt like it also kind of, it wasn't the right place.

And so she was like, okay, I think I'm just going to do it. And yeah, I think she had something like 500 bucks or something. And we went to Miami and stayed at a, it was my godmother's place for like a month. And my mom started like working at marshals and she was an architect. And she just, you know, kind of like hustled her way to. becoming an architect again, and my dad met us a year and a half later. Yeah, and then I, like, learned English, like, pretty quickly. I was, like, seven.

And one story that I think is really interesting is, like, my first name, like, so many of my friends from school call me Carla. Because, yeah, because. Still? Did they still call you that? Yes, because my family always called me Camila. But my first name was legally always Carla. But I think, I don't know, something about, like, I don't know if this was just for me, but I, maybe, like, I feel like in Latin American countries, it's not, I didn't go to school where it was

like a computer system where it's like first name, blah, blah, it's just like, what's your name? And then, like, you say your name. But I, like, you know, going to school, they were like, Carla, and I was like present, but I didn't really speak very good English. So I was kind of like too shy to be like, I'd actually prefer if you call me Camila. That's what my family calls me. So literally from middle, from, sorry, from elementary school to when I went, I, when an audition for X Factor, everybody called me Carla.

And I remember always, like, not feeling, like, identified with that name. And my parents always always calling me Camila. So it's almost like a very, like, metaphorical, like, kind of identity, like, crisis. You know what I mean? It's your alter ego. Yeah. Totally. Do you keep in touch with people from your childhood?

Yeah. Yeah. I have friends that I, like, still hang out with, like, all the time. My dad's an architect, my grandpa's an architect. Oh, really? of the things that we talk a lot about as a songwriter is how similar they are. Interesting. What's a little different in your case is that you're also sort of the builder and the person

who lives in the house. Yes. He's in the same metaphor. But I do think that there's so many similarities to being, you know, the blueprint and like how you interpret, you know, how you're going to dress up the house once you build it is something different. But I definitely can see where you'd get, you know, the songwriting back. background, even just seeing how somebody creates something from nothing, even if you're given,

like, this is your plot of land that nobody's plots of land. Nothing's flat. So you have to be creative in the way that you design a house that is flat. So you're not living in a weird place. Like all these weird things you don't think about. But when you grow up with an architect, you see like the ingenuity it takes to do what looks like a normal house on a plot of land that isn't normal. So I think that there's a lot of similarity in that. You know, the influence of music in Cuba and in Mexico and in Miami, they're similar, but they're really, if you're into it, they're not that.

No, not at all. They're really different. They're very diverse. What are your first musical memories in, you know, in your childhood? Well, first of all, the architect parallels. I definitely, I'm so curious to it because I never thought about it that way. I think what's like I'm trying to explain to my parents what I do for a living still

And that's like the best. Yeah, totally. So it's one of those things that I'm always trying to help my When I was in bands for years, right? Yeah. You know, used to be in bands with like this is the same era. That's when I met like Ricky Reed. Yeah.

He was in wallpaper and I'm in like Glacierryking. You know, like which we'll get to later. But, you know, this. I was a big fan of some wallpaper. Oh, yeah. It's just the best. Yes. And it was this time where when I started really primarily writing for other people,

my dad was so used to seeing me on stage that he didn't understand, even when I'd get them tickets to go see huge artists singing these songs. He was like, yeah, but you were an artist. I was like, yeah, but I'm still an artist. I'm just not playing for 300 people a night. Now the songs are being played in stadiums around the world. You know, like, it's like, I just don't need. House is on architectural digest.

Yeah, right. And maybe I don't want, I don't, I just don't have to be the guy who builds the house. That's interesting. I actually started songwriting in that way too where, and you asked me about the Cuba Mexico thing, but just to whatever detour for a second. I wanted to start writing songs like for other people while I was in the group. Like we were working with like Julian Bonetta. Yeah.

And I remember being like, I used to write to instrumentals of other songs because I didn't know, like how to play an instrument. So I would write basically my own song over like, you know, piano chords to like, whatever, like, adjaring song, whatever, you know, like four chords and like write a new song. And my exercise was always like, oh, pretend like you would write a song for Rihanna, pretend like you would, blah, blah, blah. And I would like send them to him and he would give me notes. But I started actually wanting to write for other people. And then I would just, I would get so attached to the house. I was just like, I actually just want to live in the house. And I actually, sometimes I do want to write for other people and I still feel like I would get too attached to the house.

I think one of the interesting parts of that is that no matter how far you go, you still can envision yourself. That's so interesting. You still can envision yourself in the house. You're like, I'm going to write this Rihanna song. You're like, I mean, it doesn't not sound good. It doesn't not sound like me. And you try to explain to artists who are like, yeah, these songs sound too far apart. they don't belong in the same album.

And some of it's like, maybe that's true. But with your voice on both of the songs, being outside of your body, I always think that's true. I always think like when something is genuine, it's like the through line is you. Yeah, yeah, totally. That's the through line. It's you. But anyway, but yeah, no, Cuban and Mexican, like music is so different.

I feel like there was like there was crossover. And then at the same time, there was, you know, there was definitely. It was almost like a Venn diagram. Like, I do feel like I grew up listening to a lot of, like, Latin top 40. So where, like, now I'll go on, like, playlist and it'll be, like, early 2000s Latin music. And there are songs that I don't even know if it's, they were just, like, the songs that were playing in my house. And what's funny is, like, in Miami, I feel like Latin radio stations still, like, I feel like those are still kind of the glory days. Like, they still go back to that time.

of music. But yeah, we listened to a lot of just like what was popular at the time. And then there's obviously like the icons of like Luis Miguel and Vicente Fernandez and like Mexican like pop rock like Mana and Camila. And like then like for Cuban music obviously like Celia Cruz and like a lot of like the big like salsa songs at the time. Like you know, I remember like Familia with Ricky, like, I pulled up so many of the songs that I, like, listened to in my childhood. Like, Bam Bam was inspired by this song that is, like, my family song called One Million of Strelas by Polo Montanieres, which was like a big song in Cuba that was like, it was like this guy who was like literally like a farmer in Cuba and he had like a couple big songs

and then he actually, like, I think died like at a really early age. Like he wasn't even like, it wasn't even like a big like pop star thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like the music video is him literally walking around his farm. It's so good. I know, yeah. But yeah, yeah, definitely like, yeah. And then I remember also like loving like Shakira with her black hair.

Like singer-songwriter Shakira was like so big for me. But there's a difference between listening to a lot of different music and then feeling like this is a house I can live. I'm just going to do this metaphor forever. No, I love it. No, I love that. It's so true. You know, you're listening to all that music and what makes your career interesting is how eclectic it all becomes. Before the X-Factor stuff, did you start, were you ever recording your own stuff yet?

Like, when were you first thinking, okay, you know what? I actually want to do this. Before I go and do this audition, I really think I should be a singer. And I think I should sound like, you know. Definitely not. I mean, I definitely, I listened. I went and just, I played in so many different houses for sure. Like I sang like so many different kinds of music.

In the house or in public? Were you seeing? By the way, that that house thing was also just a matter. I played in so many different houses. I mean, like, you know, like I listened to so much like early through that. Like, you know, Chris Brown and like, you Neo and like a lot of like that era of like, you know, 2000s like pop R&B and like whatever and I feel like that informed a lot of my like singing and like you know how I remember like being in drama class and my drama teacher would be like

can you just like not riffs like so much not in like a weird way but I didn't have like a vibrato like I sang stuff in a very poppy like way and I would like riff and like do runs and stuff and he was like girl like this is like you know this is like hello dolly like what are we doing? What was the question? I don't remember what you're asking. I really like where you're going with this on some level because I'm a musical theater dork. And so it's like it's nice to hear, you know, I feel like a lot of people kind of closet their musical theater background.

And here you're, you know, you're openly hello dolly. When you were growing up, were you doing a lot of musical theater? Did you think that's what you would do? I wouldn't say I was like a musical theater nerd. I think that drama class was just my entry into like the arts and into the singing. So take us to this like, you know, this is so old now, but you go to the audition for X Factor. What were your goals going into it? Were you thinking, you know what?

I want to be a pop star and here's this opportunity? No. I actually started. I think it was like maybe a year before I started uploading like, covers to YouTube. But I... Where were you recording these in your like bedroom? Yeah, in my bedroom. And I would, a lot of the times, I didn't want people from school, like, seeing them.

So I would like cover the camera. So it would be just like literally like a black screen. And I'd be like singing like, if I ain't got you by Alicia Keys. And then I would like listen to it. And then I would delete it because I felt like, oh man, like I messed up or whatever. It's not good enough. Oh, blah. I would like upload another one.

Then I would delete it. So I really regret deleting it. those now because it would just be so fun to listen to them. I kept to one, which was skyscraper by Demi Lovato. And I had the camera on for that one. But I think it was, you know. And that's still, can someone find that? Yeah. Yeah. That's still on there. But it was interesting because I think I like, it's funny because I've been thinking a lot like now at 27 and, you know, it all kind of ties into what we were first talking about, like just like contextualizing your life and your personality. and, you know, it feels like there were so many different kind of, like, sides to me and so many

different. You know, on one level, I remember, like, I went to visit my grandma in Cuba when she was still living there. And I was, like, had this obsession with music and singing, but I felt so shy to sing in front of my family, to sing in front of my parents. So I made her get in the closet. And I played guitar and sang for her. And so it was like, that was me. That was me with my family on one level. And then... What did she say to you? She was like, wow, like, I can't, like, super remember, but she'll say to me now, like, I can't believe, like, this is you now. And, like, do you remember when you made me, like,

get in the closet because you didn't want me to look at you? And so I think, like, so that, that was, that was one name. Where did the nerves come from? I don't know. Like, it's, like, so interesting. I think I was just, like, I've always been, like, kind of, like, there was, there was, there were parts of me that were really shy. and I, you know, felt really shy when, like, I don't know, like, there's, like, a picture of me, like, with my eyes, like, tearing up when people saying me happy birthday. Like, I think I was just, like, overly kind of sensitive. I don't really know.

This is, you know, some stuff I'm figuring. Do you have brothers and sisters? So I, my sister came, like, 10 years, she's 10 years younger than me. So I was kind of raised a little bit only childish vibes. Yeah, yeah. And then also, I think that to be. honest, like, not to whatever make it, like, deep, but I think the immigrant stuff is like, like, kind of weird.

And, like, do you know what I mean? I didn't have, like, my family didn't start coming over to Miami until really recently, like, you know, like extended family and cousins and whatever, like, not till really recently. So it was very, like, kind of nuclear and a little bit isolated. My, my family were the immigrants because I was the second generation American. You know what I mean? Like, well, my family is European. And when the, after, during the war, they wouldn't, they tried to come to the U.S. wouldn't let in Jews.

So they moved to Nicaragua, which is why my, that blueprint on the wall is my, my grandfather for when above the piano is the blueprint on the wall is in Spanish. Wow. Because my family lived in Nicaragua. To get into the U.S., they had to basically come in. The thing was you'd come into the U.S. when you were pregnant and have a kid here so that way you could stay. Wow. So that was my mom. Crazy.

You know? There was a warrant out for my grandma because she had stayed here for too long. But that was even just that, like made me feel there's some immigrant. Like self-consciousness. Mine, I think, is ambition. Oh, yeah. I think I have the immigrant ambitions that I, like I think there's this need to prove that I belong. in a way that I got from looking at all my cousins speaking.

Everyone spoke a different language. And you knew where they lived with whatever family member by the language in which they fought. Like they would fight. If they fought in Hungarian, that was my grandparents. If they fought in Spanish, it would be like my mom's cousins. If it was my, you know, if it's like my godparents, it might have been in Hebrew or something.

It was like everyone fought in some language that wasn't, you know, like you could tell. They got mad. That's when the realness came out, you know? Wow. Anyway, that's a long story about me and not you. But that is, like... I was thinking of just like a beautiful, like, tapestry.

It is. But I was just going to say, like, and thank you for sharing that because that's really cool. Yeah. But I feel like it was interesting because, maybe you can help me sort this out because it was like on one hand I was, you know, doing kind of very like shy, self-conscious things like that. And then on the other hand, in school, it was like all of... my friendships were based on music and singing. So it was like, you know, my friends from, literally my first friend, who was actually from Nicaragua, that I made in, like, the apartment complex that we

were living in, we would, like, put on, like, the cheetah girls and pretend like we were in a girl group. And then, you know, I'd be in elementary school and we would, like, be playing American Idol. And I would bring my CD and they'd be like, oh, my God, like, can you sing for us, like one more time? And I'd be like, you know, kind of like. And what song was it? Always the same song. Yeah. I was so. I'm breaking free.

You know, the one. The hit. That's very funny. But yeah, but I was always kind of, there was always like kind of like a thing that I was like like the girl that like can sing or whatever. And then I think in middle school and high school, middle school drama class was my way of like kind of staying connected to music and arts and whatever. And then I think like in high school it was like over I went like high, it was just overwhelmingly like big. it was like 3,000 freaking kids. And when I auditioned for X Factor, people were like,

we, girl, we didn't even know like you sang. Like, it wasn't, I don't know. I think I reverted back to some of that shyness in high school. But I think definitely like auditioning for X Factor was a big, was kind of a surprise to a lot of people, including my family, because I wasn't really doing a lot of things professionally. Like I was not even doing a lot of things professionally, but I wasn't even doing a lot of things like, you know, like publicly.

Yeah, publicly. Yeah. Like having the main part in like the school musical or this or that. The most I was doing was I would be singing a lot in my, in like my house. Like when my like parents weren't there, that's like all I would be doing. I was a really big fan, like music fan. I was a big fan of Bieber, of Taylor, like a big pop culture fan. So that was like a big like kind of part of my life.

You were like, yeah. 15. Yeah. 14. So 14 years old. You have a, there's a four-year-old in the house also while you're singing around. Yeah. Could you judge?

Did you like, do you have a relationship with your sibling enough that would, that you could like perform for your four-year-old or five-year-old sibling? Was it like that or was it like, oh, my God, this is another part of my life. And I'm, I'm 15 and 14. I'm worried about myself. No. I mean, my sister, like, I feel like in the last few years, it's so interesting. Like now I'll be like, Sophie like, what do you think would be like a good like TikTok for this song?

Yeah, yeah. Or, you know, like now I feel like she's actually like she's so helpful and gives me such a like refreshing perspective on like culture and like, you know, culture in all kinds of ways, like whether it's like TikTok or social media or like music or whatever. But back then it was like she was just a baby. Like she was like it, you know, it's like, it's like my other, she's like a little. just like a giant like a little child. Yeah, like a literal.

When you literal child. Our good friends at Chartmetric have all the data you need to power your music career. From playlist placements to stream counts to follower demographics and many more. It's never been easier to understand how your artists fit in the music industry and how they can grow. Chart metric does the work for you, providing actionable. insights and visuals on their up-to-date global data that covers over 10 million artists and 100 million songs. So there's no math required. Use it to find out things about your favorite artists and any of the artists and writers on this podcast. Plans start as low as $10 a month.

Learn more and get started today at chartmetric.com. Today's podcast is brought to you by BandZougal. Built by musicians for musicians, Ban Zougal is an all-in-one platform that makes it easy to build a stunning website, an online store for your music in minutes. All the features you need are already built in, including dozens of fully customizable templates,

tools to sell your music and merch, commission-free, commission-free crowdfunding, and fan subscription features. Mailing lists, tools to grow your fan list, live support from their musician-friendly team seven days a week. Website plans start at just $8.29 a month, which includes hosting and your own free custom domain name. Our podcast listeners can go to banzugal.com to try it free for 30 days

and use the promo code ATWI for, and The Writer is, to get 15% off the first year of any subscribers. description. That's banzhugel.com promo code ATWI. When you, you get onto a show, and I don't think like people realize, you know, it's, it's only, you know, what, the second or third year of X Factor, right? It's like, I think it was the second. Second year. So it's like you kind of know that it could be really big. So you're probably nervous, but, you know, it's no guarantee.

I feel like that you can only gauge how. heavy it was in retrospect. Yeah, I mean, I'm going to be completely honest. I've always, like, kind of followed my, I've always kind of healthily followed my, my delusions and my dreams. And I think especially when you're young, like that is very strong. And I really was just, when I think about it now, it's actually very innocent and pure. I was so guided by love and, like, love for music and honestly, love for One Direction.

And I'm not even joking. I was such a huge fan of theirs. And they actually had posted a video where they were giving tips to audition for X Factor USA. And some part of me just knew that they were going to perform on the show. And I'm not even saying this to try to be funny. I know it sounds like kind of crazy. I really was like, I want to be on the show. I love singing.

I love music. And also why this show? Because I know they're going to perform. And I really want to meet them. And I, like, you know, like, I really did have such a big crush on, like, Harry Styles. Like, a delusional crush on Harry Styles at that time. And I wanted to, like, I don't know, like, meet him and, like, I don't know, like, fall in love with him. At that time, 15, I really thought that was a real thing.

Have you—do you have a relationship with any of them or all of them? I think I—I wouldn't say, like, a relationship with all of them. But I feel like, you know, Nile is, like, always been really sweet and, like, a friend. And Harry's always been, like, really friendly. I wouldn't say we're like friends, but not yet anyway, but I feel like he's like really friendly. But I always hesitate to tell that story because I, no, because that's the thing. Because I don't want them to be like, is this girl? I was 15.

I am 12 years older now, guys. I went on tour with them for like 10 days in the UK. And it was one of the most bizarre moments because you grow up. knowing about boy bands, but it's different when you see it. And it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, you go, you leave a concert, of course there are lots of fans. It's not that. It's that you drive an hour and a half outside of that's crazy. That's crazy. To find a hotel that is off the map. So no fans can find you. And an hour later, there are a hundred fourteen year olds with no parents in sight. And you're like, how did you find us?

This is crazy. Like the fandom for that kind of thing is just hard to explain. And my first cut was for a band that was opening for Jonas Brothers. I also called the Honor Society. And they were like going on tour, even with even just seeing those guys perform, you'd have, you just, the fans were rabid for. boy bands. Rabbit. And I wasn't even really like,

I wasn't even exclusive to one. No, but I was like, I was like obsessed with the Jonas brothers. Like I thought Nick and I were going to, like, you know, at that. It's the age. Yes, the age. But the reason why I brought that up is because fifth harmony might be the last,

so far. It's like the last great girl group. Like there hasn't been a girl group that has done that kind of damage. And same thing with, you know, 1D, there actually hasn't been a lot. It's now been almost a decade. It's not like people haven't tried. Yeah.

And it's actually interesting because when I went to Black Pink's concert. Yeah, that's pretty close. I mean, I was like, when I was younger, I was. It's all those bands, BTA. It's all the K-pop stuff is just too. When I was younger, I was obsessed with Destiny's Child. But I think, like, after, you know, Fifth Harmony, like going to see a Black Pink show, I was like, wow.

like I 100% like I understand like it's there's something so like you're like and which one am I I'm like you know there's something so do you still do that I did when I went on to the black thing show yeah like literally like who are you I think I was um Lisa yeah does Lisa know that no shout out Lisa um is the is there going to be another girl group like why is is it so hard for girl groups to exist now? And when I think of my childhood, it was primarily girl groups. It was like there were so many good groups. What is what was it that you guys had that like just so is so hard to replicate? Well, you start first and then let me and then I'll I have no idea the answer. Like I mean I what's really unique about both the 1D Fifth Harmony era is

that it was cast. It was auditioned. And it was like... I think you're right. And I remember, I think there's something so fascinating about, you know, this kind of like human dynamics being played out. Yeah.

And, you know, I remember like, you know, watching the One Direction guys, like, especially in the beginning, seeing them kind of banter and seeing the different kind of friendships being formed, like, within the group. And like, what's it like when they, And what's it like when they interact? And I don't know. I think that there's something really joyful about it. I think that, I think that on a deeper level, it's like different, you, you see yourself.

It's like you, you see yourself and different members. And then your friend is like, well, if you're her, then I'm her. And, you know, there's something really like kind of like joyful about it. And also, I think it speaks honestly to our need for, this is me just like kind of like, cycle. psychologically like being like, hmm, like, what is it? I think we all want to belong and belong to a friend group like that. Like, we all want to like crack up laughing. We all want to like hug like five of our like closest friends. Like we all want that experience. We all want that experience of like looking to either side and being like, I'm not alone. Like I have like my girls beside me, you know, like we all want that so bad. It's honestly, I think it's part of

for this album, like I have like the XOXO girls, which are like this, it's the same girls. Like it's the same dancers. And they've become such a like, I don't know. Like it's like they each have their own style and like their own personalities like. To bring that in. Within our dynamic. And it's like almost like inner child like healing thing for me too where it's like, I don't know.

Like it's like I feel that dynamic again. And I don't feel like I'm like alone or solo artisty. it feels like, oh, like, we're like a girl gang and like, and it's all of us. And you know what I mean? Yeah, we're trying the other day about like kids not, like if our kids didn't play sports, would we be upset? And some of the thing that I learned out of coming out here in particular is how many people treat music like a team. And when you have a, when you have a group of women who have to dance, together and it's sort of like the weakest link is really noticeable when everyone's dancing together. So the amount of teamwork it takes to be, you know, to have the XOXO girls is like that's not,

it's not like that's easy. You can't just throw it together. You actually have to like rehearse and talk and communicate and look at each other and listen. 100%. It's a team. Yeah. Yeah. Jumping to songwriting stuff.

When you're, you know, through Fifth Harmony stuff and. into a lot of the solo career, a lot of people are thrusting songs upon you from the outside. But you're a really good songwriter, says your collaborators, which we'll still get to. But what is the process to go from

you cast in something where people are like, these are the songs you're going to sing to jumping to the solo stuff, as a songwriter? Well, I think honestly, even as a songwriter now, which now I feel like I'm in a totally different space than I was then as far as like trust and confidence in my own ability. And not even my own ability, but trusting my own ear and my own instincts.

Because I feel like something that I have realized as I've gone older, which I learned, which I heard on this podcast. It wasn't in the writer is, but it was second best. Jen that right there you go. It was this next best podcast. What was I going to say? And I also, I'm so excited to be here, by the way. Oh, well. I really am.

But, okay, so what. You can come on anytime you're on. Great, great. It'll be a whole season of. Great. But somebody said, you can't let the world tell you your value. You have to tell the world your value. Yeah, that's real.

That's real. And I felt like in the beginning because I hadn't almost like earned. Creads, songwriting-wise, like, you know, I hadn't had like a big song. Like, I hadn't, you know, proven that I could do it. It was almost like people didn't like expect that I could do it. Even though I was like, I feel like I could be a good songwriter. And I feel like I have great melodies and I feel like I have great ideas. But I feel like I think, you know, people are also, you know, they're afraid. They're afraid that things won't work out. And that's why they take the safer bet.

And, you know, I find... Who encouraged you to, you know, if I say like, hey, I'm going to be, you know, right now I'm going to join a group or whatever. And I was like, yeah, I'm going to go and be in a boy band. People would be like, you can't do that. And I'd be like, why not? Can I? You know?

But somebody along the way is going to be like, no, you can still do it. And I'd be like, really? Okay, cool. Somebody along the way probably was like, no, you just auditioned for this show. You can't be a writer. Right. And somebody said, no, man, you've got to hear her songs. I think honestly, it was while I was in the group that I started, I literally had like full songs that I wrote that were in the beginning to instrumentals of other songs.

But then I remember I actually, I worked with a musician and producer who, for the first time I recorded, I think it was like maybe two or three songs that I had written by myself. And, you know, I started showing people. I remember, like, I showed Sean. I showed, I remember, like, one of the girls in my group. I showed, you know, like our, like, tour manager at the time. Like, I started showing different people. And I think that just kind of, like, built my confidence more and more. And I think that was probably, like, one of the impetuses behind And why I was like, okay, like, I'm ready to, like, do my own music. But I think as soon as I, the first thing I did, like, when I left the group was I, I wasn't

really recording. I started doing sessions. And I think my first session was with Benny, Beni Blanco. And I remember I was like so just straight, terrified for like 10 months. Because suddenly it's like, for me, it was like, it wasn't even singers anymore that were my gods. It was like songwriters. Like I was like, are you freaking kidding me? I'm in the room with Max Martin right now.

Like, I am scared. You know what I mean? Because all I wanted was for them to, like, think that I was good. And sometimes that would actually kind of, like, you know, it kind of left me with diminished returns because I didn't, it wasn't even, I wasn't even thinking about if I liked the song I was doing with Pharrell or Max Martin. It was like, but do they think that I'm a good songwriter? Yeah, that's really interesting. It would happen to me all the time. where I literally was like, as long as they, it was more about me getting.

You ended up with hits with a few of those people. So, I did. Yeah. It didn't. It didn't work. Well, I had a lot of moments of like clarity and like sobriety, like validation sobriety with like the more longer term collaborators like Frank Duke's. Like we spent so much time together. And, you know, but it was like when I was like in a room with Farrell for like four days, I was just wanted acceptance and validation of like, does he think I'm good?

You know what I mean? As opposed to like... Yeah. And each of those writers has such a unique skill set in the room where if you're with Benny for four days, you had a really good time. And then in the end, you're like, man, that song was great. I don't even remember which day... Like, it's like a whole other process than Max where you go in and it's like, it's really focused on the composition. And it's like, you know, it's a different technique. And Farrell's going to be like, you know, just a feel session.

Like, all of them are so, so different. So different. So different. Did you thrive in one more than the other? I truly, I honestly think because I was, you know, I was maybe like 19 at the time and these guys were just like myths in my mind. And all I wanted to do was like be a great songwriter and prove I was a great songwriter. I honestly think the thing that was the best for me was like with Frank Dukes like when I just was like able to like be really comfortable in the room. And when I got to a place where I wasn't. He was somebody that I got to a certain point where I wasn't trying to prove anything to him and I could just like relax and enjoy. Like so much of songwriting and it's so different now. Like now I honestly feel like I've learned that one, it doesn't matter like how great or how mythologically incredible the person that you work with is.

It really is all about do they get me? And do they understand me? And do I understand them? and is there a fit and is there chemistry? It really is like the other stuff is superficial. It's kind of like dating in a way. It's like... It totally is.

It's literally like you could see a guy that is like, I don't know, all the superficial things. He's like super tall. He's gorgeous. He's handsome. He's funny. He's so successful. Blah, blah, blah.

And that could kind of in the beginning of dating or if you're like really young could really freak you out. You're like, I've got to really impress this guy, blah, blah, blah. And then suddenly you're not even yourself anymore during the date. And then you're... But then you kind of have to shift the paradigm of like, this guy could be all of these things. And he could literally, I don't know, I could like hate the way he kisses. And he could not like my sense of humor.

And we might just not fit. And I feel like with music, collaborating is the same way. It's like you could have the most hits and best songs in the world. If you don't get me, if you don't make me feel like psychologically safe in the room, if you don't make me feel free to, I don't know, like if you don't make me the best me, then it doesn't really matter, like, how acclaimed and amazing you are. And to be fair, I don't think those people, the irony is those people in the beginning of my career, I don't even think I truly gave it a chance because I was so nervous and

like, and so, like, trying to prove myself. But I really think I'm not in that place at all anymore. Now I'm literally, I think for the most part, I'm like, you know, I kind of like, I'm like, let's just see if you get me and if we work well together. And most of all, if you make me feel like psychologically safe, which I feel like it's just kind of underrated and talking about creativity. It's so weird because from the songwriting side, you're always like, man, if I was with that artist, I would have written that song.

It's not real. It doesn't like, it just wouldn't be the thing. It's chemistry. It's all chemistry. Because the chemistry is a huge part of it. I also think if you have, you know, four days or five days or whatever with somebody, then that first day you can, you've. feel comfortable falling flat on your face because you're not...

That's big. You're not trying to fall in love with this beautiful person. Huge. I mean, in the beginning... My first album, I was, like, working with, like, almost like a different person every day. Yeah. Which was crazy. I mean, this last album, I was, like, literally with the same two people every day for, like,

a year and a half. Yeah, yeah. So it was literally, like, you know. I mean, there are so many hits that people, that you've had now, and people have asked, I'm sure all the questions about them. But some of them have been, you know, are sort of transcendent and are falling in that sort of evergreen category of songs where I'm sure you just hear them all the time still. What's the first song or what's the song that you think defines you as a songwriter?

That's such a great question. As a songwriter, I feel like it would honestly probably have to be, should I go from like Should I go from Is it a lot to be like from each album or just in general? Go for each album. Yeah. It's exciting. I feel like my first album never be the same.

Okay. Because I feel like it's weird in the sense that it's like I feel like it's like pushing melodically and there's like some choices that are like, hmm, which I feel like is just kind of always I always want to go like. I feel like one trademark I always like to go for where I'm like really proud of a song is like, oh, that was like a new choice. melodically or whether it's an ad lib or melodically or something in it feels like it's pushing. Yeah, pushes your own boundary.

Yeah, pushes my own boundary for sure. So I think can never be the same. I think like even though Havana I think does that sonically, I think lyrically sometimes I'm like, oh, I think I could have maybe done like a little bit better. But I do love that song. Isn't that that that's the hardest thing for layman to accept. is that I definitely have one of my bigger songs that I still always point out it's something where I'm like I never heard it as a hit and never heard as a hit

and there are definitely songs I have that I am convinced is like compositionally flawless that nobody knows nobody will ever listen to me too and it like it drives me nuts that you're like no no my best song is this one that has like 30,000 streams and this one that has A billion is like, it's not great, guys. It just, anyway. I know. It's so true. That's the first off.

It's so true. My second album, I really love the two songs that are standing out to me. I really loved, there's a few songs on the second album, but I love used to this that I did with, I don't think, I love used to this that I did with Phineas. I really like that song. I love this song Bad Kind of Butterflies, which is like a 30,000 streamer like you, which I feel like nobody's heard that song, but I love. love that song. And then this song, which I think is, I love this song called First Man that I wrote about my dad. Yeah. I love that song. I don't think, I will say, I think of all of those three, I think bad kind of butterflies actually represents me the most as a songwriter because it does

have that thing where I'm pushing my own boundaries. And it's just like there's, there's just, there are other two songs that I feel like incredibly like well-written songs, but they're almost like not weird enough. Yeah, yeah. For, you know what I mean? for me. Okay, on the Familia album, I feel like the song La Buena Vida is very me because it's like, again, it's pushing my own boundaries and it's like this like, uh, wapango, like Mexican, like orchestration, but it's like almost kind of like, like, like, rapy, like flows, um, which I really loved and I'd never done before. And I was like, wow, this is so cool. Like, I love like mixing things together that normally wouldn't go together. And then on my last album,

I feel like Chanel number five boat and June gloom do you have a if I picked out any song that you've done in your solo career

can you sing every lyric? I'm honestly not I think it would make me take me a little bit more of like brain power for some of them because I didn't tour

I haven't toured all of them because there was like a COVID thing that happened. If I were to bring out You know what I mean? The songs from your childhood that you sang for your friends. Can you sing every lyric? Yeah.

It's like I think also people have this assumption that we all know all the lyrics of all the songs we've ever released. And that is 100% of the time false. Yes. But I think there's this like image that it's like it's so because people when they describe like, oh, oh, I like Camila. I don't like Camila. It's like, what are you talking? Like, you are like judging this human off of like releases of songs that you may or may not. Like they represent you as an artist.

It's like, it's just weird. Did you mean Camilla, me the person or me the album? Oh, I just meant like the person. The person. Like people just don't really understand the human who chooses to write these songs, who then interprets these songs as the artist's form of that human. And that all these are different... Oh, my God.

Don't get me started. They're different parts of your personality. Well, to be totally transparent, I was actually, like... I was kind of nervous, like, to do this today because I've been feeling so, like, vulnerable and fragile when it comes to just that stuff. Why? It's just been, like, I don't know. I just feel like I've...

Is it doing all the promo for the album? I think so, and I think I've just been spending more time on social media than I usually do. Why? Because of the promo? Yeah. Like just like I don't know like being on TikTok and then you accidentally like sometimes I'll just have low impulse control and like read comments and then I'll see something that just like leaves me just fucked and you know and yeah it's just been really really hard. I'm not going to lie. How are you? How are you supposed to deal with that? I have to be better about not looking at things. And do you have to do the social media or does, can someone or is, or can people read through

the authenticity? I think it's like, I don't know. And then I think it's like a combination of things. And then I'll have like friends that come up to me and they're like so well intentioned. But they'll be like, man, I hate the shit that people say about you on the internet. Oh, yeah. And it's just like, it just sometimes feels like, like, I don't know, like I'm just like feeling it lately. And it's just, it's hard.

It's really, it's fucking, it's just. Why do you do it? Hard. Why do I do what? Any of this, no. I think I like, honestly, like, there's, I, when I'm, like, when I'm doing, like, music and creating things, I do it, like, because I love it. And then there's, I'm just, like, to be totally transparent, there's times where I think

what you were just talking about, where it's, like, the person that's, like, making things and then like the famous part of it. Sometimes I really do ask myself like, hmm, how like worth it is this? Because sometimes it just, it does feel like this is just too much. Like it's, you know, like I've definitely. Can you separate yourself from the artist? It's really hard. It's hard for me.

For sure. It's hard. Does anybody do that? You know, I've actually, I've talked to like friends about it. And, you know, and I've been, like, also talking to friends about it, like, recently, too. I think people, I honestly, I don't even, I think people struggle with it. I really do. Like, I think, like, artists struggle with it.

And I think that it just, like, comes in waves. And I think it's about taking care of yourself, like, you know, as it happens. But, anyway, I, yeah, I hope that wasn't, like, whatever. like vulnerability hangover and like fucking five minutes. No, I think it's like I think it's really important because I think in reality like all of us are, you know, it's sometimes it's through the commercial success of stuff. Sometimes it's through comments. One of the things about being a songwriter instead of the artist is I wrote a song a couple years ago where the video really got sort of canceled. Really?

You know? And no one looked at who the songwriter was. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Like the vulnerability it is to be the artist versus the songwriter. be vast. It's very different. But as a songwriter, you're constantly looking at like, why aren't these songs doing better or whatever it is? And it's like, maybe I'm not good enough or whatever it is.

And you still read the comments and internalize, you know, like, man, people don't like this song. I'm like, but I really liked it. And it's like maybe I don't know how to write a song anymore. It's like there are softer versions of it. That's totally different than, you know, the, like people, I mean, nobody's, nobody's looking at the songwriter and judging me by the way I look, you know, for the most part. Totally. Or like, or like. Or sound or whatever. Yeah.

I mean, and that, and that even sometimes feel like a softer version of what you get. Sometimes it's literally like you're, I don't know, like, and not to even like whatever, like go deep into it, but like you're, I don't know, you're, your character or who you are. Yeah. Like, you know, it's like can feel. existential and like fucking like you know just like just deep it can feel like like fucking deep one of the most impressive things that you've done is like you go all the way there on your projects like you don't um there are other people who've gone solo from groups who didn't go all the way there like who didn't take that risk yeah that risk is why there's also like

so much love yeah yeah because like Like, you know. Yeah. And I try to like, you know, even like, and even like me saying it is like, you know, all I can really do is just like be human. You know what I mean? Like even like, I don't know. Like just like be like as courageously human as possible like in my, you know, the good stuff.

And then also I feel like, you know, like the harder stuff too. It's like literally all I did. You did not have to record this last album is not something you had to do. No. Like this was a choice from the outset that like anybody who listened to is like, fuck yeah, that woman just took like a risk and like you did not have to do that. You're your, not some of your peers do also take really good risk, but most of them are not as brave to go and be like that's like this is.

masonically, which then the visuals and all the things that go along with it to reflect that, like, you know, you made that bad because you're taking that risk. So then like along with that bravery comes all this vulnerability of like these, a lot of people are going to critique this bravery because they don't get it. Fuck them. And the ones that do are like, you just went deeper with you. And they're like even further in the journey. It's just, you know, that's earned.

Totally. Totally. And I don't, I don't regret that for a second. Like I'm so proud of like my album and I'm so proud of, you know, I'm proud of all of that. I think honestly like, I think just, you know, social media is tough and the internet is, is tough. And sometimes it just feels like, like, like, it's like rampantly like mean. And, you know, it like can just like be a lot. But, you know, as far as like, you know, my album and like my art and like my work, I definitely like, I always like stand behind those things. Like, well, let's go to the next segment.

I'm going to just because these people gave some questions that I feel like deserve some answers. So we're going to go to this first segment, which is what would Ricky Reed ask Camila Cabo on and the writer is? And Ricky asked, Papa Ricky. Percy asked, how are you holding up Big Dog? So he obviously is like in tune. We got to get some dinner is what we got to do.

And then he also said, like, how's your heart? How's your head? My heart and head is, is, you know what, always growing and always, I feel like always, I feel like always, I feel like, you know what? It's just a sign of being alive. Yeah. You know, like, just like, shit, like. I'm hurting. I'm alive.

What, what do I do? No, you were doing the same thing. that you were saying that like you said like oh when i was you know 13 14 15 you're kind of like fearless and doing stuff but like there's you still have it you still are doing like the fearless thing i do for sure for sure you again you could be safer and you are not which is what it makes your music enjoyable and you're like artistry thank you the last question he has to have you know and have you read every murakami book since we spoke last that's so funny because because he actually was the person that told me to read Murakami.

And I think he told me about Norwegian wood. But I read, I forgot, was it, it wasn't Kafka on the Shore. It was like a space one. But he told me that he was like obsessed with Murakami. And then I was reading that book and I put Murakami in Chanel number five. But no, I have not. And I need to read Kafka on the Shore. Then we're going to go to, what would Jasper Harris,

I love him so much. He says, it's my angel baby. He's so young and he is so good. It's stupid. Okay, he says, it's honestly stupid. Shout out, Jasmine.

He has like so many incredible things that he is going to create in the world. No question. Including our baby CXOXXO. He says, I would ask her what her musical aspirations are going forward, given that she just made such a strong departure from the traditional pop. landscape, which is vulnerable, as we've just discussed, what is she feeling on the other end of

making such a different album? It's like, it's like they were listening. It's true, but I do, I do want to tell you, it's not like I feel like even me saying, and whatever. And by the way, like probably, you know, I am going to have a vulnerability hangover and probably ask you guys if I can listen to this after and tell you if we can, okay, great. But just to tell you, this isn't like when I'm like fuck like I'm hurting or whatever it's not like about this album it's honestly just it's an ongoing

thing that I that I just like get online that just like totally yeah but so it's not necessarily like even like just about this album I think I'm just particularly vulnerable because I'm like oh my God I'm just like guys

I'm offering up like myself and my like dreams and my like, I don't know, I feel like so, like, vulnerable and raw and like, and also, like, this hurts. And I am trying to find out how to, like, be in, and be brave still and be strong and, like, the center of that. But as far as, like, this album, my sweet Jasper, I feel incredibly, like, so, like, I feel like the world that we kind of, like, created with CXOXO has brought me and also the people that I work with, like, and my fans, like so much joy. And the way that it's like,

there's something that I have never done before completely successfully is like start with lyrics and songs and chords and sonics and then have it be built into like a color palette. And it become like, whatever, like these motifs that become like, oh, like, It's going to be like a playground and a merry-go-round and there's blue hour and there's cars and there's this and have it be like this. And there's ballet shoes and have it be like this whole kind of visual world that me and the XOXo-Xo girls like the dancers and my choreographers and the fans and the ski masks and the glitter and the lip gloss that we can all inhabit.

Like I've never like had a world built that we could inhabit from these songs. And that, like, feels like so much fun, which makes me so excited, you know, for like the past couple albums, I was like, I really, I don't think I want a tour. I need to, like, you know, become, you know, like the line in girls. I'm busy trying to become who I am. Like, it's like, I have to, like, you know, be like, I don't know, just like I've been working since I was 15. Like, I really want to, like, learn how to drive and, you know, not just like be on tour my whole

life. And this is the first album since my first album where I'm like, I need to tour this album because I love this world that we've created so much. So I feel like it's just brought me so much joy. And also, I think like kind of connects to everything we've been talking about too. Like I think, you know, I think like especially females that have been in this space for a really long time, I've talked about this before to friends. Like, my. My makeup is very, kind of like very Pisces, very sensitive. I'm like very non-confrontational, very introverted. I'm kind of shy.

I'm kind of like, you know, I'm like, I want to keep the peace, blah, blah, blah. And I think being like in this pop culture landscape for like now like 12 years, you have to develop a healthy amount of bravado and armor and confidence. and teeth. And I think that that was like the energy, that is the energy of this era and like this album that I really needed is like that confidence and like kind of like bigging yourself up and your friends baking you up and being like, you know what? Like, no, like you're not going to fuck with me. And that like toughness is something that I feel like I started to kind of practice and I needed to, you know what I mean? I'm talking to Jasper, by the way. And you know what I mean?

Like, I needed to kind of like live that right about it so I could live it more. You had to walk the walk. I had to walk. So I feel like, so I feel like it'll be interesting to see. I have different thoughts in my head. Like, you know, almost every day about, I think, like what the next, what will be the next kind of energy or what the next kind of world I'm trying to live in for for the next thing. But I think definitely, like, I want to dive deeper into the things that I learned

about songwriting this time around. Well, the last segment like this is what would Vanessa, your A&R, ask. Vanessa. Camila Cabo. Yes. And the writer is.

And she actually had a few good. These were, they all ask good questions. That doesn't always have it. She said, what is your funniest memory from the making of CX LXA? That was fun memory? Mm-hmm. Give us a behind the scenes story.

Dang, that's a really good question. It wasn't mine. Who's Vanessa's? Dang, the most fun memory. I think, like, man, I got, like, just butterflies in my stomach, like, thinking about this. But I loved the friends that I made. Like, I loved, like, playing Drake my album. Yeah, so crazy.

Like, was so fun. surreal. I mean, maybe you guys play each other music all the time, but that just seems like... When I played Drake my album and he played me some of his music from For All the Dogs, I don't know why, like, talking about him makes me, like, emotional, but I just, I, you know, and I told him this, like, I feel like his music has been such a soundtrack to my life, to my friend's lives, and he's been so, like, just, like, generous and kind and, And that moment was just like so cool. Like it was just like, you know, I feel like so lucky that like people like him or like Taylor or oh my God, you don't even nobody knows this.

I don't even know if I, who knows? I don't think I have to edit this out. But I met someone who told me something about my album recently. Wow. What? What did she say? She was like, she fully was like, I love your new album. And I was like, you inspire me so much.

I would not be here without you. Wait. And I walked away and I cried. Did she like show up at your door? I was at Michael Rubin's white party. And I kind of like made eye contact with her. And I always like, I think nobody knows who I am because I just like fully have imposter syndrome. So I was just kind of like, like I looked at her.

But I didn't. And then I like, she was like, and I was like, and I was like, I love you so much. She was like, I love you too. I love your new album. And I was just like. And I was like, you inspire me so much. Like, I wouldn't be here without you. But that was just like a really, really, really amazing moment.

Yeah. Because that's also, you know, another person that's been like, I literally like, you know. It's a, it's a those. When you're actually there and you're in the thing and you're at the Grammys or you're at these events and you're like, oh, wait, I'm one of. I know. Yeah. Like, that imposter syndrome never goes away. just evolves into something weirder because then you're like, has this all been?

Like, how long have I been in this where it feels like, it doesn't go away, it just gets weirder. You just captured a feeling I did, I had not put words to. It's so true. It's like, wait, have I always been liked? Yeah. Vanessa also asked, who do you spend the most time with when making an album, which collaborators? I mean, obviously we know the most recent.

And Barth. And Bart, who's my vocal producer. Oh, cool. And also one of my best friends. Shout up vocal producers. Where is your favorite place to write a song? It's funny because I'm actually like, I feel like, I'm honestly really not picky when it comes to studios.

I actually had like a really interesting thing where I feel like this interview, because it's like caught me at such a vulnerable time, I might be just like exposing the most insecure part of my psyche, but I might just say that I'm just going to say these things anyway. I realized that I would have this thing where, like, my collaborators would want to go to, like, the best studios. Yeah. And I would, like, be like, can we please go to, like, the shittiest studio because it made me feel, like, less pressure. Like, if I felt like I was, like, at a, like, that's real.

Okay, good. If I felt like we were, like, at a conway or something, like, where it was just, like, so, like, expensive and gorgeous and blah, blah, blah. I just would feel almost like this anxiety of, like, well, this was so much money and, like, whatever. and we have to make something amazing today. Whereas, you know, my, I think my first album with Frank, we did at, like, electric feel. Yeah. And it was just, like, kind of dingy and, like, fluorescent, ugly lighting. And it was kind of depressing, but I liked it because I was just, I don't know.

It felt, it felt, I like, I like the, like, kind of hustle underdog vibe more than I like the other vibe. This is a cool era for doing music where there are studios everywhere and you don't only have to do it at Westlake. No offense, Westlake. I like Westlake. But it's like. Oh, my God. It's so true though. You don't have to do it at a white glove studio.

There was an era. Now you can, everyone has a studio, you know, you can do it in some studio where it sounds pretty close. Yes. If you have to finish it elsewhere, you can finish it elsewhere. But like, you can finish an album in this studio. Yes. You can finish an album.

Like, you don't, you know, you don't need that extra one. It's so true. And I love that. I love that era. This era music. There's another Miami artist that I've worked with where it's like you go out there and you're like, this person easily could do whatever studio they want, but it's just like, really.

It's always like, it's like this neighborhood's not great. Yes. And this is like, this place is not really a studio. Like, it does have, like. And you're like, man, this is funny because you are choosing. You chose to do this studio. You didn't, anyway. Makes me feel good.

Okay. So we're going to do our last segment, which is a five for five. I'm going to list five things. Just tell me what comes off the top of your head. Oh, I love these. We're going to go with the song. Havana. Okay.

Just whatever comes out of the time. Oh, okay. The song Havana. Oh, pride. Wait, do I list, just one word? Yeah, sure. That works. We're going to do...

Heritage, ancestry. We're going to do Miami-Dade County. Ooh, peacocks. Peacocks wrecking car windows. Because in my neighborhood, like, there's peacocks everywhere. And they'll, like, jump up. They'll see their reflection in the car window. beat the shit out of like my neighbor's car window.

Fifth Harmony. Ooh. Complex. Dreams. Sisterhood. Sisterhood. Do you guys all, are you guys on a text chain? Do you guys text a lot or no?

Okay, maybe, maybe not, maybe not like day to day sisterhood. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. More like, like you guys have gone through the shit. Yeah, like, yeah. Like, sisterhood in the sense of like, the shared experience. of being like young women like together. Yeah, yeah. Figuring it out together and like, you know, the, you know, like just like the

the bonding and the good times and then also like the, you know, the hardships and the. CX O X O X O, the. The deluxe album. Oh, shit. Look at what I did. I followed the rules. Okay, so yeah, the deluxe version. The deluxe version.

Which will probably just come out this week by the time this comes out or whenever this comes out. That's right. Honestly, I... Is the deluxe version better than the version version? It's incredible. Why do people do, why not just give us everything from the beginning? Why did you have to make us wait?

Because I'm a big fan of like shorter albums so that you can digest it all. Yeah, I mean, it totally makes it. sensitive. Yeah, I know that was a I know that was a rhetorical question, but I decided to answer. I just don't do like, you know, it's like there's so few artists that get to release albums and then get to release them under the like the way they want to release it.

Like, you know, kudos to like this journey that you're currently on. Like, it's rad. I know. I'm very lucky. Yeah, well, you've turned it. Let's go with your mom and death. Oh, my real life angels.

I love that they came here. I know me too. I did kick him out, though. That's fair. Is it because you don't want them to hear things you have to say? It's because there are just some days where I'm overwhelmed. It's like when everybody saying happy birthday to me in that one picture. I'm like, I can hear your guys' thoughts when I say this one thing.

I can hear your thoughts. Well, thank you for doing this podcast. Honestly, okay, first of all, I'm totally having a vulnerability hangover. I hope that I wasn't like, you know, just like insane. But I want you to say, I want you to know that you are, I have a very, very grounding kind energy similar to my father, Ricky Reed, my other father, Ricky Reed. And you really made me feel so comfortable and like I could just like be very vulnerable. And you have a really kind and caring energy about you.

And I really thank you for that. because you made this such a joy and such a pleasure. Well, thank you. Usually it's my, when I say nice things about you, but I appreciate that. I feel like that's how we should end it. We can.

We totally can. You said so many nice things about me. You're going to come on this thing many times, I'm sure. And, like, man, like, shout out, Ricky Reed. You know, we got our first, like, cuts together. Like, I love, I love him so much. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, he's fantastic.

Thank you so much for doing this. You're the best. This episode is produced by Joe London, Mega House Management, and myself. See you all next week. I'm Ross Golan signing off.