And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan - Ep. 206: Teddy Swims | The Power of Self Belief

Episode Date: April 7, 2025

Today’s guest is a genre-defying vocal powerhouse who’s been taking the music world by storm. Raised in the South with a love for soul, country, R&B, and rock, he blended these influences into an unmistakable style that’s all his own. With a voice that’s as powerful as it is emotive, he doesn’t just sing—he connects, turning raw, soulful covers into hits and proving he’s more than just a voice. He’s a true artist and songwriter who’s crafted songs about love, loss, and everything in between, resonating with millions around the world. Oh, and did we mention he’s one of the nicest guys you’ll ever meet? If you haven’t heard his music yet, trust us, you’ll want to.And the writer is... Teddy SwimsTimestamp | Chapter Title00:00 | Quick Message from Our Sponsor01:43 | Meet Your Host: Ross Golan02:39 | Teddy Swims: From Georgia to Global03:30 | Leaving Football Behind for Music08:00 | Finding His Voice Through Theater12:30 | Tattoos, Identity, and Early Reinvention17:00 | First Bands, Bad Songs, and Growing Up21:50 | Sponsor Break22:00 | The Dark Side of Touring and Mental Health26:30 | Why Teddy Started Therapy (and How It Changed Him)31:00 | Songwriting Camps, Magic, and the "Elf Theory"35:30 | How Teddy Learned to Choose Songs Like a Pro40:00 | The Origin of "Teddy Swims" (and a Crazy Early Tour)44:00 | How Covers Blew Up Teddy’s Career During the Pandemic47:00 | Signing with Warner: Building a Real Career50:00 | Losing Faith, Rebuilding, and Finding His Sound53:00 | Breaking Out with "Lose Control"56:00 | What It Takes to Really Make It (Lessons Learned)58:00 | 5 for 5: Teddy Swims Rapid Fire Q&A Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to And The Writer is. I am your host, Ross Golin. There are millions of singers and thousands of artists, but only 40 songs per genre at a time. This podcast aims to shed a light on those creators who make those songs. I produce this with my friend Joe London, in association with Mega House music group. Special shout out, Charlotte Isidore, Jad, and Michael White. And you can follow us at And The Writer is on all your music. your socials and make sure to share your music with the and the writer is community.

We'll see you there. Now, this week's episode. When do you become Teddy Swims? Teddy Swims. Teddy Swim! There was a rap project. I was just trying to be heard in any fucking way, facet or form. It blew up so fast.

Woke up the next day and it had like 10,000 views on it on Facebook and we're like, oh shit, this is crazy. I asked all these guys. They were still working like full-time jobs and stuff. And I was like, give me six months of your life. Just devote everything to this. The day less than six months. I signed Warner Records and put all these boys on salary.

Did you ever get discouraged? Oh, yeah. Yeah. There was a moment not too long ago. I was alone and I felt like this weird sadness, unimportant and weird. Also with my career starting to work, I was really in a deep place of thinking that this was going to solve my issues and my self-worth issues and that when people loved me and validated me that I would feel like enough. And, you know, your failures always inform your successes, not the other way around. I think when that song came to be, though, all of us in that room felt like, oh, shit, this is it.

This is the life-changing song. And, oh, my God, we got the one. This is a life-changer. Yeah, dude, fuck. Welcome to And The Writer is, I am your host, Ross Golan. Today's genre-defying vocal powerhouse has taken the world by storm, raised in the South, with a deep love for soul, country, R&B and rock, he grew up, blending influences that would later shape his unmistakable style. With a voice that can move mountains and an emotional depth that cuts straight to the heart,

he built his career from the ground up, first by sharing raw, soulful covers online, and then by proving he was more than just a voice, but a true artiste and writer in his own right. His songs capture love, loss, and everything in between resonating with, millions across the globe, but he's also just the effin nicest guy. And the writer is, my friend, Teddy Swims. You know, I love this podcast first off. So it's so cool to see you do the right here next to you. It was cool to watch that firsthand like this.

I just want to say that was badass. Dude, what a set up. This is wild. I mean, like, we'll go and do the whole telling your story. But, you know, we were in a session not that long ago. That'd have been two years ago, maybe, possibly? Like, at most two years ago. And it's just like, I'm just, I know I text you all the time and stuff, but like, I'm proud of you, man.

Thank you so much, brother. I appreciate it, man. I'm so happy to be here with you. You know, before your Teddy Swims, your journey musically is, like, has gone so far from where you are now. Yeah, totally. You know? When do you become, I'm now Teddy Swims? And where does the Swims come from again?

It's an acronym for someone who is at me sometimes. So we started me and my dear friend Addy who plays guitar in my band still and was in my last band right before Teddy Swims. We were in this band called Wildheart. And there's still a couple songs out with you can find on Spotify too. We're like kind of country alternative-ish band or something. And he was like kind of making like hip-pop beats at the time and giving them to like rappers and stuff, local people in Atlanta.

And he's like, man, we should try to rap, you know? And so we had like, we had did a couple songs. And my dear friend Tyler Carter was in this band Issues. And he was doing his solo run. He had just released the album and was like, came home, heard like a couple songs we did. And it was like, dude, you guys can come open up for me on my solo tour if you want. And just give me like, I'm going to Europe for a month. I'll be back.

Give me 30 minutes of music. And I'll take you. And so March of 2019, Teddy Swims and Addy, we went on tour with him. And it was just like as a rap project, you know? Like I was just rapping at the time and with a bunch of unreleased rap shit. And just like, so that was my first tour, like a little Sprinter band tour, like being a rapper. And my manager, Luke at the time, he'd came to all of our LA shows and was just like, dude, I think people are really fucking liking Teddy Swims though. Like, you, you as a person that's not like trying to play the role in a bunch of different bands as a lead singer, I think people are really connecting with who you are as a person and love that.

And I guess that was kind of what, like, spurred us into trying to figure out what Teddy Swims could be outside of this and just kind of took the band and was like, let's just fucking do Teddy Swims, I guess. started doing the covers and seeing what people liked and what stuck and what happened and you know it rest is history. The crazy thing is like, you know, we all try a million ways to make it in music. Yeah. And you just walk through open doors because you don't, you don't know where it's going to come from. Yeah, I just wanted to be, I just wanted to be doing it.

You just wanted to be doing it. And I could find myself authentically anywhere. Yeah, let's just start from the beginning for people who don't realize like, you know, you come from, you know, there are a lot of people in L.A. that have, you know, grew up in L.A. and have, like, the nepotism. And they're, they know this thing and they knew that growing up. And they were always going to be a success. Yeah, totally. It was just like what they did.

That is not the Teddy Swim story. No, no. Let's start from the beginning, man. You were born. Yeah, I was born in Conyas, Georgia. And, you know, I didn't really start messing and dabbling in music until, maybe I was coming into ninth grade-ish area, me and my dear friend Jesse,

who still plays with me now, you know, still writes and plays in my band. And, man, we started, you know, dabbling. At the time, it was like a lot of pop-punk music. And, you know, like, we were still graduating high school. I got in the theater around 10th grade with him. And, you know, after high school, I graduated in 2011. And everybody was, it was like the post-hardcore scene at the time in Atlanta. It was huge, you know.

So we were listening to bands like, Devil Wears Prada. and trying to like attack attack and like, you know, trying to play stuff like that. Like, and so, I mean, I was, I was coming up screaming for a long time before I'd really started even singing, really. You grew up doing, you know, being into like sports and others. Yeah, as a football player, man, yeah. What was the point when you said, I need to choose art over sport? Well, I think, I think, you know, I had did both for one year, like my 10th grade year.

It was my sophomore year. I was still playing football and kind of fell in love with theater. And I really, like, loved singing. And I just fell in love with the craft of that. And also, like, you know, I remember, like, my dad, even being six foot, you know, even then when he was going through school, he had, like, he went to college to play ball. And, but he was six foot. And I remember them telling him, him always telling me, like, he was too small to be a

defensive lineman, you know? And those little guys that are, like, six foot four and, like, 300 pounds out there. And he's like, no matter how good I was, a lot of times, they want to take the big guy, you know, because you can take that, you can take that monster. and turn him into a monster, you know, rather than, so, I mean, I was, once, once I kind of, like, that was always kind of pushed in my head. And I loved football and I loved it, but it was just, like, not a life really at five foot seven for a defensive tackle. You know what I mean? I'm five foot seven, dude. It's over. I was like, five foot seven, two 15 at the time. And it was like, I'm just,

it's not happening. And also, man, I had, like, I had a, the, guy, the senior before me that was, that was our, like, a quarterback, you know, he had, like, such promise of, like, going somewhere and doing something. And he ended up spending his like whole senior year, like, he'd messed up his leg or something like broke something. And then it kind of like ruined his like his life, you know, like I imagine being like how many, how many Michael Jones or how many Tom Brady's there were, you know, that there will never be that, you know, maybe selling insurance now because their whole family spent their whole life like doing this and putting this into this. And then, you know, they break their femur in 10th grade or 12th grade or second year of college. And then

their career is like done. You know, it's like, it's, it's, And so I'm super glad that I, you know, if I break my leg doing this shit, it's, I'm still, I can still hovel up there and sing. It's, it's, it's, it's, this is, it's like, I think, I don't know, I don't, I don't, I don't want to say it's more of a sure shot, because there's no sure shot in anything you're doing professionally. But I think, I think when I fell in love with this, it was, it was just, I can look however I want to look and be whoever I want to be, just be authentically myself. And, and, and, and that, that, that's enough to go. And I think there's room for everybody. And so I, I know, I fell in love with

this. And it was just, it was an easy decision for me to just stop, you know. When you were saying, you know, that obviously when you're doing art stuff, you can, you can be and look however you want and just pursue yourself. Like, that's part of the art is your brand, you know? And clearly your body is your canvas, like your voice is your can't and part of it. And your voice is your brush and your body's the canvas. Totally. Yeah. When did you start using your body as a canvas? When did you start getting tattoos? Well, I got my first tattoo when I was 16 and it was like, I got it covered up since, but it was like a little cross and it had a last, my last name,

Demsdale and a banner and another banner that said established 1992, such a cornball tattoo, like such a first 16 year old tattoo, you know, and I always say it's not that I'm the person that should take tattoo advice from, but just like maybe not 16 year olds getting tattoos. It's like, by the time I was 18, I was such a different human being, you know, I just don't think like any lifelong decision should be made while you're like, A kid still, you know what I mean? I was just so different. And so, but I definitely, when I first, like, wanted to start, like, I guess tattooing my body and like, I started caring about the way I looked when I was like, I remember my dear friend Julian, Julian Selzer. He's a, he's a, he's a big

EDM producer, DJ. And I remember he said this one thing to me when, when we were younger. And he said, like, you know, you're an icon when somebody can dress up as you for Halloween and somebody know that they're you, you know? And so, from that point forward that always stuck with me in my head of like how do I look how am I like how could I how could I be recognizable as like Halloween costume you know and so I did I spent like a lot of time like trying to brand I guess myself in a way then like and and and figure out how how that was what made me different in a look you know do you currently feel like you have to re up that brand do you have to change who you are now that people recognize you to

Or is it now, now are you done because people recognize it. Well, I mean, I still love to get tattooed. I was like, me being tattooed is like always what I wanted to be. I think, I remember like one of the first things that when I was younger, when people would ask me like, what do you want to be when you grow up? It was like, one of the first things I would say is just tattooed. And I know that's not a job to get a tattooed, but I wanted to be tattooed. And I remember, like, my mom used to give us like $10 at the end of the week, like on

Fridays. Like, she would give us an allowance for doing our stuff, you know? And me and my brother would get $10 a piece and on Sundays. we'd have to go and like give 10% of our income to ties and offerings, you know. And so I'd give a dollar, leave with nine. And my older brother would always give five because he was an overachiever. Fuck that guy, right? But who got the blessings?

You know what I mean? So fuck you, that's my boy. That's my boy. It's so good. But I used to go like, we got the blessings. I hope you say that on like Christmas. Yeah. Merry Christmas, brother.

I used to go in like get all my stuff in the quarters and then put it in the quarter machines. After lunch, we go to this Mexican restaurant and just like, you know, just slapping tattoos all over me. You know, I remember standing in the mirror as a kid and being all tatted up and yoked and feeling like I was the coolest shit ever. And so I know, I just always, I love being tattooed, man. It's this, everybody I looked up to you was just covered in tattoos, you know? Yeah, that's interesting. Before we go and dive further in, I feel like now is a lot of. a good time for you to tell that same story that he said when you first got here.

You were telling me about being in the Delta One Lounge. Yeah. So, yeah, it's first time, you know, it's a brand new Delta One Lounge out there in New York. And we're headed back to getting ready to head back here to L.A. And so we're leaving the Delta One Lounge. And, you know, I go to get on the elevator. And this lady goes, are you? Are you?

Get so excited, you know. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, that's me. That's me. You know, try to be all bashful about it. But also try to, like, I feel cool with shit at the same time. You know, you know how it goes. And so then she's like, well, can I take a picture? And I'm like, yeah, of course, I'd be honored, you know.

And so we're taking a picture. And we get done in the picture. And we're kind of standing there for a second. And I'm like, oh, we didn't hit a button. Somebody's got to hit a button. So I was like, oh, that's okay. We got distracted. And she's like, yeah, just hanging out in the elevator with jelly roll.

And I was like, oh, shit, she thinks up, jelly roll. And I don't want to preface that by saying, like, I'm honored. He's like the nicest human being in the world. And I love my brother Jelly. So, but it was just like. My face just turned beat red. And I'm trying to, like, when we walked out of that elevator, and I just power walks, fan through it.

Like, I didn't have the heart to be like, I'm not jelly roll. But also, like, I didn't, you know, I just kind of put me in a weird position to be like, do you know who I am? Yeah, I don't want to do that either. So I can't be hurt, but I also couldn't correct her. So I just red face it dipped. And I was like, God bless, man. I hate that that happened.

When did you start thinking, like, I guess I could do probably original music. and I should write my own. Well, we had been, we had been, you know, I'd have been in bands forever in writing and writing with so many bands. I mean, there's, like, my first ever band you can actually still find on YouTube. We're called Heroic Bear. And it's, uh, what's it called? It's called Heroic Bear.

Okay. And it's like my senior year in high school or this post, like, hardcore band, me and my friends. And, uh, and our first EP is still on YouTube. And it's so bad, dude. It's so bad. What's the first song that you wrote? Um, is it one of those? No, that would be, well, I, that would be, well,

Some of the first stuff I wrote with my dear friend Jesse, I mean, that was way before we could even record. But the first music I released was, was her up there. Oh, God, probably Nuns with Guns is what it's called. Nons with Guns is a first bad song.

But also, you know, like, it goes to... You should do the ballad version of it someday. There's no way. I mean, I think, to be fair, to my buddy Thomas, man, the lyrics. I mean, we did good on it. We did we do what we could at the time.

I don't know why. I think in our little, I'm like our little local scene, like I remember everybody thinking I was so great. I listen to myself now, I'm being like, I suck so bad. I mean,

I probably, I was probably the best of my little group of friends, you know? But I think, I think that it was like, we suck so bad. And I've really like, now where we are now, like where I am as a writer,

I think it's always great to keep those things up, though, because you can always reference to how far I'm, come, you know, in the last 15 years doing this. And it shows people that you don't, you don't just start out like Benson Boone or you just like just started singing yesterday and you're fucking awesome. You know, some people have that.

Some people are just that beautiful. But I sucked for a really, really long time. It's so hard to imagine that. I mean, obviously, you know, I think we all work on skill that, like we may have taste. And there's something where I, and maybe we've talked about it in a. an episode before, but this idea that you're born with taste, but you have to build the skill to reach that taste. And so when you first write your first songs, you're like, this is not good, but I know

I could write something good. Yeah, yeah. And then you keep working through that and you're like, this song's almost there, but it's still not, something's not great. I think you're totally right about that because I remember even at that time, you know, that I was like not gung-ho to show my whole. friends, like what I've been working on, you know? Like I remember I loved playing little local shows around and then have my friends come see me, but I remember our first recordings and not

ever being like, now if I like kill something, like, I'm like happy to be like, yo, you got to check what we did yesterday, you know? And I know that they're decent songs and I'm excited to show people and I know I sound good, you know, like I know that this is a good song and I can share it with somebody. Back then, I definitely remember being like, I still don't feel like I'm comfortable sharing these with my friends. You know, I was scared to show people my music then. And, I mean, the recording was probably just shit, too. It was fucking garage.

What's the first song where you're like, I'm not scared right now? Or are you still scared today? I mean, yeah, I, that's a good question. I don't remember the first time that I felt like, fuck, yeah, this is good. I don't know. I don't remember, like, I mean, I guess it, like, yeah, I can't tell you, I can't pinpoint the very first time that I was like, I love this. This is, like, this is good.

I can't remember that first time. I mean, you released an album this last week. Yeah, I feel very good about it now. Like, I know, I know, I feel really proud of that. The night before it drops, are you just 100% confident that every song on it slaps? Yeah, totally. Yeah. Absolutely, man.

But also, I mean, that's because, you know, there are so many people who are involved in this that are also feeling that way. And I've got the best people in the fucking world that are helpful. You know, like, I mean, when you got John Ryan and Julian Munetta and Mickey Echo and, and Marcus Lomax and Jeff Giddy and the list goes all. You know, you can't lose with those guys, you know? They see me. And I mean, I'm so lucky to work with some of the greatest, greatest, greatest people in the world.

So I think that also, I guess, in turn, makes me feel better about my stuff too. Because if they want to hang out with me, like, if you want to hang out with me in a room, then I must be fucking decent, you know what I mean? So there might be just that piece of me, too, that makes me feel that way. Well, that brings up some of the next segments. First being, what would Mickey Echo ask Teddy Swims on End the Writer is? is. And Mickey Echo asks, who is your favorite songwriter and why is it Mickey Echo? Man, it is Mickey Echo every time. Well, I think, I think, I think for me, especially,

Mickey Echo does do everything with me. And I think Mickey Echo is the one person when we're writing for the record and everything. I mean, I think he's got seven cuts on this record we just put out. And there's only 13 songs. I think he got more cuts than I did on this record, to be honest with you. To be honest with you, and it's my fucking album. But I think I think Mickey is just truly such a gifted artist, you know, and he writes from the place of an artist, you know, rather than me and Julian talk about this all the time. Like an artist is going to artist and then a writer's going to be a writer and then a producer is going to produce, you know, and there's some people that have like this, that certain thing that they really excel at, you know, and they can do all of them, you know, but some people are just really writers and some people really are producers, some people are really artists. And I think to the core of Mickey, he's just truly just such a different, he's an artist. He's like a breed of his own.

He's such a weird kind of human being that is just so authentically, so solely him and truly sees me and I see him. And I will say, though, there are times that, like, I hate when he records the song first, you know, like, there's sometimes like, we're writing. I'm like, look, before fucking that Mickey cuts this, let me fucking get in here and do it first because Mickey's going to cut it. And then I'm going to try to do everything Mickey does. And then I've got to drop it like fucking a step and a half because he's,

Steve Perry and the shit out of it. But I will say, yeah, Mickey Echo is the greatest of all time, in my opinion, man. He's the greatest of all time. And it always has me in mind and always loves me and checks on me. And he's really been the person that has helped me navigate this wild fucking ride that this is too. He's been through it. And he knows, I mean, I've called him on moments. Like, I think there was a moment not too long ago last year sometime.

And I had gotten back from tour for a bit. And I was like, and I hadn't been alone in so long. Like usually I'm just stretching myself with so many people all the time. And I thought I was going to be like officially so happy to be home by myself and like just alone. And for the first time in my life, I was alone. And I felt like this weird sadness, you know, this like weird like, I guess like, what am I supposed to do with myself and feeling like unimportant and weird? And I guess there's like some level of dopamine that I was getting on the road all the time

that I didn't know that it was like I was so addicted to or so used to that when I was sitting by myself, I was like, fuck, I feel a little depressed now for some reason. I know I'm not sad, but I just know that I'm sad for some reason. I know there's like, I know this is the reason. And I remember calling Mickey and being like, do you, did you ever have this feeling, you know? And I talked to even Burke Kreischer about it on his podcast. And he's like, you know, we called that reentry in my household. And he told me this beautiful story about like, he always like, when he gets home and he's living a little too hard and he gets home, He's like gets everybody and his daughters and his wife in.

And it's just like, I just want everybody here. I don't know. I can't tell you any more than I just want everybody around me right now. I need love right now more than ever. And I think, I think Mickey's helped me navigate that so much. And to a degree of like how to even he's going to be such a great person for me as as becoming a father because that guy just, he just feels like he has the fucking balance on life. You know, the biggest thing I'll always say about Mickey is he's always like, make your bed. Make your bed.

Make your bed. And I've done it a couple times. It doesn't really do anything for me like he does for him. But every time I'm at a camp with him, I make my bed. And I always get to go down and be like, hey, man, I'm in my bed, you know. And just having him, like, kind of happy and proud. I always, I don't know, he does so much for me, man. That's one of the best people I've ever met.

NMPA is the premier organization for music publishers and their songwriter partners. It's their mission to increase the value of music. And that's exactly what they do. NNPA is working right now to raise royalty rates for songwriters from streaming services, radio, social media, and everywhere music is essential. From the courts to Congress, NMPA works to get songwriters what they deserve. I know because I've served on the board before, and I'm the current co-chair along with Ryan Teter and Liz Rose for the Golden Platinum Club.

So again, thank you NMPA for supporting and the writer is and songwriter. everywhere. And what you mean by that, you know, when you make your bed, it's like it's something you can control to start the bed. Yeah, exactly.

It's something that's yours, you know? And then you can end the day by going back and being like, I did that. No matter what happened throughout the day, you made your bed.

And that there's a lot of logic to that. And while we're going to some mental health and other things in this, you know, what would Aaron Bayshuck ask, Teddy Swims on, and the writer is? He was saying a similar thing.

He goes, you know, he's such a salt of the earth, selfless person and he gives so much of himself to other people that it's important to ask you what are you doing for Teddy you know and so I'm going to reiterate that what are you doing for Teddy what a good dude uh man uh you know uh I I think I think I think to the core of me though I get bringing some joy and some comfort and some like safety to people I get that in return you know I think at the core of my job is that I truly do get to open up and trauma dump on people all the time and strangers that are standing out in front of me.

And I think just being honest and vulnerable with myself and where I'm at, I get to, I guess, people have created this safe space for me and I in turn get to create that safe space for people to feel free to cry and laugh and joke. You know, there's one thing for sure. We all have been heartbroken and we all think dicks and farts are funny, you know? And at the core of me, that's like there's always going to be that, you know? And I don't know. I cry. I try to make sure that there's always a time to cry. There's always like, I try to cry every day.

It's like pain leaving the body. I think one thing I've really been doing lately for myself is I've been calling it reprioritizing gratefulness, you know? Some days this does feel like fucking joby, you know? And it can get like where you're like, God, just dragging ass here and there. and you want a bitch, you know. And sometimes it's, it's, it's, you got to just tell yourself, hey, what are you bitching about?

You got everything, you're doing what you love for a living. You're doing it with your best friends. The best job in the world. You should be happy. And some days that works. But there are some days that that doesn't work. Some days you just need to be like, hmm, I'm upset, you know, and you got to give yourself that fucking space to do that, too, you know?

And so I try to, I try to let myself be upset when I need to be upset and learn. to not tell myself I'm not allowed to be upset because I'm so lucky. I think that has been the biggest thing I've learned over this last year because you can't just, you have to feel those things. And I used to just feel like I was so ungrateful if I was upset. And I think that was the biggest no-no that I did to myself is not let myself be upset. Who helped you figure that out? Do you have a therapist?

Yeah, yeah. Therapy has been a really good thing. Is that something you've always done or is it something? No, no, it's something I just recently started, weirdly enough. So my girl, Raich, she, she'd like, I'd been wanting to start it, you know, with the whole title of the album and everything. I wanted to get into it. And the first, putting out the first part was like, I promised to myself that I would go. And I still kind of kept pushing it off and pushing it back and saying I was too busy.

And she was like so wonderful to me that she, I guess, kind of like finessed me in a way of going. I was like, you know, as we're bringing this kid into this world, we need to, we should go to, like, couples therapy, you know? And then, and we'll, like, make sure we're bringing this baby into, like, the most safe place. And, you know, and we started to do a couple's therapy. And then that kind of bled into, like, you know, I even just talked to my therapist this morning, like sometimes just being like, hey, can I talk to you about this? Can I talk to you?

And the next thing, you know, I'm in my own therapy. And the next thing you know, I'm in therapy. And I was like, that slick bitch. She got me. Last person, part of this album that we can go back to telling the story is, what would Julian Benetta ask Teddy Swims and the writer is? you have a lot of friends. Yeah, I'm so grateful to have it.

You know, he has a few questions, but I want to go back to, you know, the camp situation, which you were saying, where you come downstairs and you're like, hey, Mickey, it's because you guys actually actively go to Palm Springs, you do the big family,

Julian Benetti, John Ryan World, where you go somewhere and you lose yourself, you know, in the thing. But what is it about Palm Springs? Like, you've written your biggest hits in this town that's two hours east.

Like, you're in L.A. all the time. You had 200-something songs by the time we met. Yeah. What is it about Palm Springs? I think that I find that, I mean, there is always a thing that happens when you're, like, locked in to a place, you know, it's just, you're just only locked in and you're zoomed in with each other, and maybe it's a fucking week-long tequila bender, and you're just there riding and speaking and talking and putting out all the outside world out of it and never

getting in your way. but I think that has something to do with it. But what I think about Palm Springs, I think it's something where it's such a remote location. I like to think of like, I like to think of like the thing. Like it's like the muse or something is like a little bitty elf, right? You know?

And if like, if you're like really not getting in the way of yourself, like the elf like might walk into the room, you know, and if you like just listen to the fucking ether of what it is, you know, and sometimes it visits you and it's everybody else's job to fan the flame. Or maybe it visits me and it's everybody's, you know, but if you're not in the way, way of the little elf, it stays in that room. And that's where the magic happens. And so I think

there's something about going in the middle of the desert. We're like, if you're doing it right here in the middle of L.A., there's thousands of rooms that that little thing can walk into. But out there, there might be like one of them that lives out there, you know, and we're working in three rooms right there. You know, so there's more of a chance, I think, for that, that elf stationed in Palm Springs to come visit our house than maybe the other two houses that might be writing at the same time. I don't know. That's the way I think of it. I love it. I mean, look, that's why we try to create Oasis even within L.A.

That's what the whole vibe is. But, like, you know, one of the things that makes those camps so successful and makes you so successful is that you're willing to, you're willing to be part of the creation from scratch and you're willing to sometimes listen to ideas that were created or started by somebody else and put your stamp on it, which, frankly, the greatest artist is. in the history of music did. What makes you so confident where most artists today

feel like they need to be part of everything or nothing? Why are you so confident that you're willing to listen to songs that had maybe been started without you in the room? I think I've arrived to that and still arriving to that. There are definitely times, like, when I was first getting into this, you know, and becoming an artist, there was definitely like this ego thing that I had to get rid of of like, if, you know, like everybody would want to send songs and want to be a part of songs or even now that I would, I might back then have gotten songs, but now that I'm at this level of my career, the quality of song that I might get shopped now is like way better than the quality of songs that I might got after they've gone through 15 people, you know, mean to get to like, I guess Teddy can cut it now. Now it's like they want Teddy to cut the song. So I think there is like, of course, the quality is a little bit better. But I think also I learned, I learned this from Thomas Redd though, too. You know, Thomas Rett was good about like,

man, you don't, you know, like he was like, I didn't write this song and this song on my record. You know, you don't have to do that. Like I don't know. I used to feel like I was, I was getting in my way, I think a lot with that too. And I think also I was learning to to A&R myself in a way that understood that, you know, when there was good songs, knowing if they were actually for me or if they weren't for me, and if I was just hating them because I didn't write them, or if they were actually really good songs. And there was a couple songs that my first songs that I cut that were outside

that I really felt so attached to that I was like, as soon as I heard it, I was like, oh, I want that. I need that. I love that song. That song is for me. And when I started, when the first time I felt that way about a song, it changed my perspective of that because I'd already went and cut something

that Aaron might have told me to that I just didn't feel like it was for me, but I wanna do a piece, and we're partners and I wanted to like show him like, all right, let me go put my whole effort into this, like, and let me see if I can, you know, really arrive to this song and bring myself to the song. And if I can't, then I'll put it away.

And, but I felt like there was so many times I felt like this song wasn't for me. And I didn't really have a knowledge, I guess, of myself to know how to pick and choose songs that I didn't write for me, because maybe I wasn't moved by them and then I would try them. And then they would just kind of,

not really hit or maybe the label when everybody would still love it. And I'd feel like still like weird about it. And so I don't think it was until I finally like heard a song that I was like so connected to off of hearing it that I didn't write that I was like, I know how to, I know how to bring myself to this song. What song was that? The first song I ever did like that was, uh, there was this song. It never even came out.

But, um, another song Mickey Echo wrote, um, it's called I Choose You. And it came like, they sent it to me. And I just was like, oh, And then another one also that was on my album, Andrew Jackson had sent me this song called Last Communion and I just fell so deeply in love with it and was like, dude, this is like so special and I want this for my album. And so like I've, that's when I've kind of, I guess, started learning the balance of like how to take songs that were from outside and if I really felt that way about them.

But you've got to feel that way about them in order to bring yourself to those songs fully, you know? And so don't like force it or don't let nobody force you into doing something that you don't feel like as naturally yours. But again, until I had had a couple of those songs, I didn't know how to truly like gauge if this is for me or not or if I was actually just hating on this because I didn't write it, you know? And I didn't know that at the time. So it took a long time for me to get to that place of saying, this is for me or this is for me and just knowing. Well, a lot of those things feed each other too that the great, great artists are great curators. Yeah. They're great

in our people, whether it's Frank Sinatra or it's Elvis or it's Michael Jackson. Marvin, man. Yeah, I mean, go down the list. If it's Madonna, if it's, I mean, there are so many amazing artists that Whitney, just, all these people were great curators. And there were some people who were better song, might be better singers, might be better songwriters but weren't as good of curators. And I do think like people send you better songs because you're willing to sing them.

Not just because of like where you are in the now you're at the top of the food chain. Of course you're going to get the songs. But you're probably at the top of the food chain because you were willing to, they scratch each other's back because you were willing to. Yeah. And I also think there's a world too where they're like people stop being. You always know too when you take songs, even if you like those songs, if people, People that are willing to give a song to an artist

and let the artist do what the artist is going to do to it and doesn't feel too connected. Because sometimes people are way too attached to their work and they want you to cut it, but they're the ones on the demo vocal. And so this has happened to me a couple times where I love this song. And so I'll go and sing this song my way.

And there was a while too where I was like, no, I don't want to go over and write and sing that song with that writer because I know that writer's going to sit there and be like, well, actually the timing of this is this. Well, actually the note is. this. Well, actually, the thing is this. Well, actually, this is, and then they were too attached to it. Or I would cut it a couple times and then I would send it to them the way I love it. And they'd be

like, oh, man, it's amazing. Well, if you could just come over to the house and then like punch a couple things in and I get there and we're recutting the whole thing. And the guy's just sitting near level 10 in my ear like, well, you know, instead of da-da-da-da-da, it's da-da-da-da. And I's like, dude, I don't think that fucking matters, man. It doesn't feel natural to me. And now now you've like ruined the song for me. And like, now every time I sing this song, even if I love it, I got this like anxiety. I got this anxiety attached to it of like how much of a nightmare you were that I don't want this fucking song anymore.

And so I think it's also when you take something from somebody, like I think that you got like the person that is pitching you the song also has to like not be so fucking attached to their baby. And if that's their baby, they need to fucking put it out, you know? That's really good advice. It also, and yes and you happen to have. the ability, because you have the ability to write, you remind me as an artist working with Pink.

Hell yeah, what a go, man. You know, like, you can sing the phone book. You can write the hits. You can take the outside songs. Whatever they are, they all sound like Teddy songs. And I think that's where writers who pitch you a song have to know that what comes out is going to be your song, not their song.

Yeah. And there are a lot of artists where they don't have that. skill set and they are more of a vehicle of outside songs because they don't have the skill set to write. They don't have the skill set. Yeah, they don't really have their own proposition quite made. And so it's easy to, it's either to throw them through the machine of just like, hey, good writer, good song. And they need to do that because their version of what their version of it isn't good. Yeah. It's just what the song actually was sent to them. Yeah. Maybe even, maybe even worse. Maybe they're just the face of it, you know, and it's,

how did the, how did you digest the change from being, I'm going to post a video which had to be vulnerable. You know, like when you saw the response from doing covers, like how did that change who Teddy Swims was to you? Well, so originally we'd, we'd done June 25th of 2019. We had done Michael Jackson's rock with you. It was like 10 years after his death. and kind of anniversary.

And so somebody had put like the stems up online and we'd pull it up. And I was like, you know, we should just do a cover of this to see like, you know, just to pay homage to the king, right? And so we did it and woke up the next day and it had like, you know, like 10,000 views on it on Facebook. And we're like, holy shit, bro, this is crazy, right? And so I remember telling my friends like, look, dude, we should just start doing this weekly thing. And I mean, like, we can film the videos ourselves. We can record the tunes ourselves.

Like, we can play the songs. We can, we really can do all. this by ourselves. Like we already have the means. Like we can just kind of like we should all just take our time and spend like maybe six months of each other's time. Like it's just really putting into this like every week doing a cover. Right. And I was like, y'all just give me six months. And a beautiful thing about this is we all moved into a house together. So I quit my job at Chili's for a bit. I was like working like one day a week. And we all moved into this house together in Snellville. There's like 12 of us living in this five bedroom house. We had built like pliboard walls

in between rooms to make it two rooms. It's literally 12 of us living there. We're like I'm having my older brother come and like ship our merchandise out of the basement, like the garage. And then we built like two studios. And we're like, we're like, we're literally like fucking, so we're filming like, even during the pandemic, we found like renting some broadcast equipment and like did live broadcast and live performances. And so it was like it was a thing that I think that we, we were so lucky that we had

each other and like found this way to do it all by ourselves. And, and so like when this time was happening during the pandemic, it was like, we We were so lucky because we were all kind of quarantined together already. And we had a means of filming and recording and shipping and distributing merch and making and creating art and merch and like, you know, doing the videos and playing the songs and recording the music. And so like we were able to, we were able to write and record and make covers all in the comfort of our own house. Well, not too much comfort. We were like I said, it was like 12 of us in this fucking house.

But we were able to do all of it ourselves. And so where the world kind of stopped spinning for a minute, it was like prime time for us. Because we were the one people, I think, on the planet who had the perfect setup for it to fucking kick ass for us. So we were just kind of stuck in a house together, having nothing but means to make this shit happen. And so I think we were so fucking fortunate. And when I tell you, we started June 25th of 2019. And I asked all these guys, they were still working like full-time jobs and stuff. And I was like, give me six months of your life, just devote everything to this.

We were getting done at like 3 a.m. going into work at seven, some of these guys. And I mean, manifestation was so real, dude, six months. Well, June 25th, 2019, we started in December 24th of 2019. A day less than six months. I signed Warner Records and put all these boys on salary. And we, like, do a million dollar deal and made it through the pandemic together off of that. And fucking just kept, kept working together. It's such a crazy situation that it happened like that.

that's amazing how you get signed but fast forward you know when let's say we met two years ago yeah it's four years the pandemic kind of crushes a lot of the business you know warner's a generally in a weird sort of way a new company you know like you know you were a priority there It wasn't like they had, you weren't signed in a republic where you'd be competing with, you know, the weekend and Ariana and, you know, Taylor and all that. Like, you were part of a company that was willing to support you in your musical endeavor and your journey. But it wasn't like from 2019, December 2019, all the way to the release of lose control. That's a long time. Yeah.

Did you ever get discouraged? Oh, yeah. Fuck yeah, man. But what I will say is that I'm so grateful for, I think, reason, like, we went with Warner, like, because we, we had met with a lot of people. And that was our fear of, like, not being really prioritized or not really getting seen because we could do this ourselves. Like, we were already fucking doing this ourselves.

So we wanted a partner that could, like, really, really prioritize us and wanted. And I think, I think when Tom and Aaron had, like, kind of came into Warner, it was kind of a whole new regime. And there was, like, a lot of bullishness, like, a lot of stuff to prove for them. And I think like they were kind of cleaning house and kind of starting back over again, you know. And so when I think it was a perfect storm when I first met Aaron and Aaron was like, you know, was we both wanted the same thing. We both wanted to be heard and we both wanted to be seen. And this guy knew that it was about developing taking acts and taking like even just a small little like a couple people and really turning that into a family and making that thing happen, you know,

and really putting into artists and seeing that like, because there was, there was so much about the machine. that was happening. You know, like you get signed, you get thrown through the mucking machine and then, or maybe you get signed because you have something popping on TikTok and then they sign these kids and then these kids like don't know how to quite be an artist or maybe they don't write another hit in the next few months and then they just kind of get like pushed to decide and sign the next big thing that's popping on TikTok. And I would say that I think what was so special about Aaron and Tom and Warner was that they were like, you know, they gave me that so much space and helped me develop and believed in me the whole time and prioritized me the whole time and let me

develop over the next five years to get to where, because they saw it, they saw what I was, and I saw what I was. And we knew this was special, but it was how to cultivate the environments and the people and the writers and the things that I needed to, in order to become the person that I'm becoming, you know? And I think that I was so lucky to have them. And still, I'm so lucky to have Bay Shuck that has been like on the ground floor of this fucking thing and has always had time to answer every fucking phone call and every text and always this prioritized me and, and, like has been there to develop me and, and shoot so many shots that were just, you know,

fell on their face and get back up and brush it off. You know, he's like, he's willing to like push me. And we've had such a good, there's times like, you know, we've done the, look, I wanna put this song out. You want me to put this song out and fuck it. I'll cut it, Aaron. I'll fucking cut it. Yeah, dude, because I believe in you, bro.

I believe in you. If I hate this song, but I'm definitely gonna cut it for you. And same thing, I hate this song, but bro, if you wanna put this out, you know, and we've always had that with each other, that like, but I think we finally got to the point, or we're getting to the point now, or will we both like something

or everybody the whole squad likes, we finally found the, I guess the formula of like what works and what we love and who Teddy Swims is. But as a five-year journey from being signed to now to do that. And that's how it used to be. That's how, that's how labels are supposed to do.

That's how A&Rs are supposed to be. You know, sign an artist and develop a kid and let them learn how to be a bucking artist and a writer and learn how to learn the game, you know, instead of just putting scoobody, gear on a kid and kicking him in the water and telling him go find some treasure.

That's just, that's not, that's not the fucking game. That's so awful they do that to these kids. There is a quote that says, you know, talking about music is like dancing about architecture. Yeah, yeah. And when I think of the first description I got of like, oh, do you want to work with this guy, Teddy? You know, it was like, he's going to be like an male Amy Winehouse. Yeah, uh-huh. And it was like, okay, yeah, sure.

sure. That's, you know, totally interested in whatever this, like, I heard your voice and was like, you know, my wife sent me your, one of your videos early on. I was like, you need to find a way to work with him. And it was like, it came across. It was like, oh, interesting. That's the direction. And then it was like, by the time we got in the room, it was like, that's not really the direction anymore. We're still trying to figure it out. By the time you had worked with, we had worked together, you would, I remember, singing we you know you had 200 250 songs something like that you know and and you're going in as a writer you're like let's just give it a shot you know let's just write today it's it's just a day

let's just have fun and by the way I think there's an artist who's going to cut our song but we'll yeah hell yeah let's go baby um that says it like two weeks ago but that's another show let's story for another day um but you know I remember calling your managers which I never do never do. I was like, I love him. I love you too. That was a great day. I love this guy.

You have to have the hits in there. This guy writes really good songs. There's no way he has 200, 250 songs and he's not sitting on a gold mine of just smashes. What sets lose control apart? You know, I don't really know

I think that I think we had, I guess, I guess the biggest thing was like, I think for me, it takes, it takes time of like really writing and getting, getting this thing because when somebody's painting you the picture of what they expect you to be, you know, like, that was, that was the biggest thing was like, every person I would go in to meet and write with and you were doing the speed dating and the writers then, you know, you didn't know who you was really going to stick around with or who you were going to be around with. And now, like, like, like, we go in and crush it for a week. There's no doubt on my mind that, now, now, even, you know, we write one more day together. I know we're gonna, we know what we're kind of looking for. I know what I'm

looking for. Like, so it's like back then it was just, I was just every fucking person in LA that would willing to write with me I was writing with. And, and then everything that the label was sending was like, look, here's like, here's like, here's, like, Melodale or like Mel Amie Winehouse. Like, here's crazy by Arles Barkley. He's like, he's like, he's like, white sealo or like Melodale, you know, like that was kind of like, that's like kind of like, they were just kind of just trying to put something on there to give the writer something to go off of, you know? And, and I think, I think truly that was like, was, I want to say shooting us in a foot in a way, but it was also like, I still was kind of discovering that. And every time I was writing those Melodale or those like white Zelo songs,

I was just feeling like that, you know, and I was like, this is not going to work because like, I just feel like that. I don't want to be that. I want to be whatever the fuck I is that I'm, I don't, I don't know what I want to be. I want to be me. And I just don't know how to put that into words or sounds yet, but I don't want to be those things, you know? And so I think, I think, I think, lose control was like, we'd kind of been like writing. I think, I think when that song came to be, though, it was the first time in my heart that I felt, and all of us in that room felt like, oh, shit, this is, this is it. This is the life-changing song. And it was the first time in my gut, I felt like, oh, my God, we got the one. This is a life changer. And after seeing it changed my

life like it has. Now, as I'm going into writing, I now know what that gut feeling of like this is special feels like. And so when I do feel that way, I know how to lean the fuck into it rather than being like, oh, is this too rock and roll or is this too country? Is this too this too this? And I feel like in so many times in my life I was getting in the way of creativity or writers I was with was getting in the way of creativity because, oh, maybe this sounds too like this or this sounds too much like this, or it's not quite hitting the prompt that I was giving for this. And it was like,

or it's supposed to, maybe it should sound more like this. And then you're having something beautiful happening. And then you're derailing it by, you know, trying to make it so much more of this or it's too much like this. And then that fucking little elf walks right out the fucking room. And we miss a chance to had a great verse,

you know, or like had a great fucking chorus. And that song never gets revisited again because we just, or we never saw it through because we just changed gears immediately because this was too country or, this was too fucking this. And now it's like, I guess now I know what I like and I know who I am. And I guess now that my proposition is there, I feel like if I feel that fucking feeling

that it's good, it's good. If it sounds good. If it feels good, it's fucking good. There's nothing you can say about that. It's damn good if it's good. You know, Julian and I were talking, he did a recent. He said when he was talking about loose control, he said, that you were going through something really tough at the time and that I love when he was saying

that, you know, recording music is like, it's like a, it's like a photograph of your voice, you know, it's like it's capturing a moment in the time and real pain. What was going on in your life when you cut that song? Well, you know, I was, I was, man, I was just going through a serious thing. I was with this person and, you know, she had a lot of, a lot of mental health issues. and we were we were kind of just living a really hard lifestyle together. You know, I feel like the, I feel like the substance of our relationship was kind of the substances we were abusing at the time, you know what I mean?

And we kind of felt really codependent on this lifestyle together. And without that, it was like, without these high highs and these vicious lows, it was just like it wasn't the interesting thing that was like eating us alive. I felt like so much of our relationship was masochistic for me in a way. And I needed to feel like, and I also hated myself a lot in ways. and I didn't feel myself loved. Like I didn't love myself in a way. And so also with my career starting to work,

I was really in a deep place of thinking that this was going to solve my issues and my self-worth issues and financial issues and that when people loved me and validated me, that I would feel like enough or I would feel like I'm good. I'm a good person. And so I felt like I was dealing with a lot of abuse from her and letting that happen because I don't know. I felt like I just didn't deserve what I was getting.

And I felt like I was just in this shell of like I hated, I hated being loved. And I hated all the attention and the love I was getting. And that's really what I wanted all along. But then it was, I was receiving it. And I was just not able to receive it. And so I think I chose a partner that was just like, I guess like, you know, taking my insecurities and really exploiting my insecurities. And I was letting that happen.

And I was lying that happened and thinking for some way that that was going to be good for me to use. as like fuel for the record or something, you know? And it was such a toxic thing that I was doing to myself. I had a lady at a meet and greet forever ago. She was a therapist and she said this beautiful thing and I say it as many times as I can. It stuck with me. She said, you know, the way people treat you

is a reflection of the way they see you. The way you let people treat you is a reflection of the way you see yourself. And that, like, fuck me up, you know? And I think I was really going through that hard time of us like, I mean, I came, I came like to that camp like, bag in pocket, man, like, you know, just geeked up every night, just talking, man.

I remember, I remember you asked Mickey about it too. He was like, oh, first time I met you, dude, I was like, oh, this fucking kid is crazy. This kid is all off the fucking hinges. I was off the rails. He's like, I don't, I don't see it. I don't see it, dudes, you know? And then we started getting closer and closer. And I guess he started realizing like there's so much, I don't know, I guess maybe he started

seeing himself of me. It was like, okay, I see the heart of this kid. It's really good. He's just in a fucking bad place, you know? And I'm just having them to talk to and them to open up to, I think really, really changed everything for me and finding myself and that. And I think the biggest thing is that was one of the first times I actually, I guess, wrote things so specifically about myself and my own personal issues. Because it's easy to write something that you think people will relate to. But I find that the more specific you write about your own specific shit that nobody can relate to, that makes it more relatable.

And I don't know if that's because you being that authentic and safe and honest makes them have the opportunity maybe. Or maybe it's like we're writing about fucking Jackson Lake. And I only know Jackson Lake, but you have a Jackson Lake. You know what I'm talking about. You know, you have one of those, you know, whether it's whatever it's the pool at your mom's house. Like we all have one of those. And I think when I started being more honest and vulnerable in my place and in our writing and discussing with them every day when we wrote like what I'm going through right now and crying to them about things at night and and just really opening up and I guess using music as like my own therapy for and having friends help me put that into words. It changed the whole scope of what music really was to me because I don't think I ever really been that honest with myself in music.

I was just trying to be heard in any fucking way, facet of form. One of the hard parts of that song is that it generally come from the Swedish school of, like, trying to make a song that the melody is singable for everybody. What's amazing about that song is that the identified. of the song is the least singable thing on the planet. Yeah, yeah. And it's a choice. You know, also Swedes are really good at finding that one note, that one rhythm, that one

phrase that is a little bit off on purpose. So that way, that's the identifier. But what's the identifier in that song is so hard to sing, whose idea was it to sing something that only, Teddy Swims could say. Julian, man. Julian, so that was one of the things he said. So Ammo originally had like the beat he had brought. And Julian was like, there was two songs he wanted to write that week. He said, no matter what we do this week, we have to write, there was the door and there was Lose Control. And the door, they already, like, Ammo already had the beat and he had like

mumbled all the, like, all the vocals were there just in mumbles, you know? And so, but with Lose Control, he just knew, he's like, I just know there's course, it's like, I lose couldn't. And then he's like, you know, some crazy teddy run, right? Like something, something neat. Like something like, he wanted kind of the same approach. He's like, you know, like we, as we listen to songs like, for instance, like, you know, Chris Stapleton's cover of Tennessee whiskey, right?

It was like, it was like, you know, that one run in that song is so, so specific and cool. Yeah. Yeah. And so it was like, it was like, it was like, it was kind of a thing we referenced in a way because he was like, you know, when you go see somebody at a bar or you see somebody at a karaoke place, as soon as that song. starts, you're going to wait to the chorus just to see if that person can hit it or not, you know? And so I think that's the special thing about that song. As soon as the first first

or the, you're like, all right, motherfucker, you better sing this damn thing. If you, if you skip out and go, um, whoa, you're like, fuck you, what would you even start? You know? So it was like, it's one of those things. I think he had that idea. And he knew that, like, we should do something like that. And I think the other cool thing about that bit was that Mickey had this idea kind of, of the second verse situation of just like, you know, do it. You know, do something. You know, the problematic. He did the little rapy bit, you know? And so Julian was so smart about this. He's like, all right, Mickey, you go sit over there by the pool. You write that second verse. He said, based off of what me and Jade, because I just cried to him out, Julian outside. And he's like,

you know what, I'm going to take this. I'm going to just write some first lyrics, first lyrics based off of like what we were just talking about and what we were just talking about. And then we'll come back in and we'll like bring all this parts together. So then he comes up to me with the first verse in his hand, hands me the phone. And he says, all right, here's the instrumental. just gives me the phone. He says, just like sing at the top, like whatever comes to your head to these lyrics. Yeah.

So I sing the first verse. Like the whole melodies was just as I was reading the lyrics. So the melody was to the lyrics. And then the second verse was just like, I guess the lyrics to the melody, you know, right? And so it was, it was like, it was two separate types of songwriting, you know, because sometimes the melody comes first,

sometimes the lyrics come first. And so like, so like Mickey had wrote the lyrics to the second verse based off of a mumble of, so he like used his melody. to write lyrics and then the first bit we wrote the melody to the lyrics and it was it was kind of like two forms of songwriting in there and then you know let's let the chorus be whatever the fuck it you know what it was you've had a bunch of hits since that already i mean the door is a big song bad dreams you got like a bunch of stuff happening and are you even real so fucking yeah yeah

dude shout out of sally man she's yeah shout to sally man she's a fucking g dude she really is um you know Are your expectations, do you have expectations now that you've reached a certain success, do you have expectations for future releases? No, I think, I think, you know, to me, it's, it's about that gut feeling and trusting it again, you know, like, so when I feel it, I, I, I just trust my gut more because I know that trusting it works very well. And I'm going to continue to do that. Rather than, like, being like in this place of pressure for myself, like, I've even

recently, you know, started, I remember when I was like first getting my little plaques, you know, and I was like, I can't wait to get it like gold plaque. And I get my first gold black. And then I was like, I don't want to fucking hang this up. I'll wait until I get a platinum one. Then a platinum one gets here. And I'm like, I don't want to fucking hang this up. Because if I got this in my fucking studio and I'm staring at myself, like, if this ain't lose control, then it's like not good enough. And so I don't want that kind of pressure of myself of like, because I'm going to write bad songs. Hell, I just wrote one last night. And you will never fucking hear it, buddy. You know I mean, I'm going to write bad songs again. And I think, I think just like finishing the idea

and like getting, getting the idea out and getting that thing out, it can always inform. You know, your failures always inform your successes, not the other way around. There's a difference between an artist and a songwriter right here because a songwriter in this era has to buy their own plaques and an artist is given a plaque by their label. They want you to have all the plaques. But a songwriter, there's a point, all my plaques I stopped buying maybe like six, seven years ago. Because every time I was like, oh, let's upgrade it.

And I would give it to like my niece or my nephew or somebody. Oh, that's a good idea. I see, that's a good idea to give them to mom or something. Yeah, yeah. Somebody else wants it in that out. Yeah, absolutely. But I was like, man, I don't want to spend $300, 400, 400 bucks every time like a song goes from double,

triple, quadruple. Like, you should be so lucky, right? But there's a point where you're like, wait until it's diamond. Maybe that's when I'll get the thing. That's not telling myself now, yeah. Then I'm going to hit up the label anyway and be like, where's my dad?

Like, I got you a dime. Like, send me that. But like, I'm not going to buy, I'm not going to keep up this thing of like, keep buying plaques only to secretly be like, ah, it should be seven times, not six times.

Well, I think, I think even with my, um, with my, as just a writer, I feel like I'm, I would be very happy to hang up like those, you know, rather than like my song and like my voice on it and like, you know, me as an artist. Like, I would hate to compete. I would, I could compete with myself as a writer. I do every day.

But competing with myself as an artist is like fucking horrifying situation for me. I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to hang up. And also like, I always get this weird thing about like my face being on fucking everything. Like, I don't want my face to be all over my house and my face everywhere. And I always tell, like, I get these, like, people that come to, like, our meet and greets and stuff and they'll, like, have drawn, like, this beautiful picture of me. And it's such a beautiful, thoughtful thing. And I'll be like, dude, thank you. But if I hang all these pictures of myself up, you know, what next time, why don't you just draw me you?

Draw me a picture of yourself. And then I'll hang you up in my house. Yeah. That's beautiful. Yeah. You know, there's something about you're, you're about to be a dad. Yes, sir. And I was just saying, like, taking.

yourself out of your house. As a musician, we worked so hard to, in a way, be recognized. I think a lot of our love language is words of affirmation. Absolutely. And so we just want to be told we're good at what we do. So we do music because it was something along the path where people were like, hey, you're good at that. So you keep doing it and you collect these accolades.

And you put them in your house. And there's this moment when your child arrives and you're like, oh, this is their home now. And it's this weird. It starts to become strange if there's more than like, you know, some of your trophies and maybe one that you get this weekend. It's like, you know, you'll want that one up because that shows like the family, you know. Yeah. But having your face all over your house is a tough thing to grow up in high. Yeah, and you never know what that kind of communicates to that baby either.

You know, you never know what that really says or how that that looks or how much that shadow that you cast onto that baby will be to them when they're coming up. Or will it make them need to succeed in music to even enjoy music? Or would it make them want music at all? where they just completely rebel out of this beautiful art because they're like, fucking no, my dad's already done that. I don't want to like be like.

So yeah, I think there's something there's so much to be said about. Yeah, like removing that, I guess that pressure off of yourself, but also that child being in, I guess removing that ego from your house, but also that pressure off your house.

Because how does that, how does that ever affect the child upbringing? And then also, you want, you want, sorry to interrupt, but like you want attain, you want your kid to see attainability.

Yeah. Because that's the privilege of being Teddy Swims' child is going to be that look at how hard my father has worked. And I can work hard too. You know, I don't know. There are many ways your kid can interpret your success, whatever that is. And look how loving he is towards his family. I want to love my family like that. There are all these beautiful things you can be.

without being heavy handed and like, you know, this is, this is what I've achieved and make it so it's not seemingly not attainable. There's definitely like a fine line. Do you feel like being a becoming a father? Is that changing who you are as a writer? Oh, yeah. Already. I think the beautiful thing for me is that there's this like, there's this always fear in my back of my mind that creeps up. Like I say yes to everything.

I want everything. I want to go get everything. I want to go get it. I want to get it. I like, because I feel like, dude, there's a nine year old on TikTok

who's better at all of our jobs than any of us are, you know? And so we got to fucking get it while that kid's still got to get returned bees to the parent. You know what I mean? Like that kid can still get grounded.

I can't. So I'm going out and fucking get this thing, right? And I feel like, I feel like this has already been a very big thing for me, even spending time with my girl and watching her, you know,

develop this. fucking limbs and shit inside of her. I think it's been such a wonderful thing because now where I have this like, I want to be the best and I want to go get this and I need to be successful in this and I want 19 Grammys and I want all this. And I still want those things, but it's not like life or death to me anymore. It's not like all that I'll ever be, you know? And now, now I know I have I have a different why now. And a singer is not all I'll ever be. And that those accolades are not all I'll ever be. And I think now when I'm when I'm thinking about spending my time being productive in music, I will take that time and be productive in music and it'll mean more and that time being

at home, like just watching TV with my child sitting on the floor and playing around, playing some Legos or whatever the hell. I know that we're doing nothing and that is the most productive fucking thing I could be doing is doing absolutely nothing with that child and not feeling like, oh man, I should be doing this right now or I should be doing this right now. And so I think being more present in both those spaces from home life to work life, but also like making both those times mean a whole lot more and being fully present in those moments and not being thinking of the other thing too much while I'm doing the other thing. I hope that it brings that kind of balance and presence of my life. Yeah, you don't have time to mess around either way. Yeah, exactly.

When you're a kid, like, you go to work. You got to show up to work because you got to go home and be a dad. When you're a dad, you got to be a dad because, like, you know, you just were at work. And like, you have to be, you have to be there, you know, if you're going to do either well. Or you're going to do neither well. Yeah, exactly. That's, that's it. Let's go and ask, I'm going to, I'm going to go to a five for five. I'm almost five things. You just tell me the things that comes off the top of your head. Okay. All right. The Grammys. Michael Jackson, dude. Oh, that's interesting.

You are nominated for a bunch of Grammys. And that's the first thing. Well, dude, I used to watch this. I still do sometimes. I used to watch this video. He's my favorite video ever when I was a kid. I really, like, wanted this situation. So there's this, when he goes up and gets, he goes up and gets eight Grammys that night.

But on the seventh Grammy, I remember he goes, there's a video of him. You can find a line. He goes up there and he says that, you know, so I, I promise that if I got another Grammy, which is seven, which is a record that I would take my sunglasses off. And I don't want to take my sunglasses off, but I'm doing it for Ms. Hepburn, who's a dear friend of mine and the ladies in the back. And he just, like, raises his glasses up and people's screaming, and he pulls him back down and goes and sits back down. And I was like, that's the most gangster shit I've ever seen. And so that's always been, like, my, like, precipice of, like, humanity for me.

And so when I think about the Gramies or I think about just success, I just, like, think about how fucking iconic that is. And I want, I want, I'm not, it don't have to be that. But if I ever get seven Grammys, did you best fucking. that's exactly my speech. That's my fucking speech. Same outfit, dude, fucking talk about. Let's go to big family.

Oh, man. You know, dude, Peter Bonetta, dude. Really, Peter Bunetta is the fucking hero of that whole thing,

man. I think, I think that comes down from just like generational, like the way, the person that he is and what he's instilled in all those kids

and myself included, he's had his hand, like, I know, there's like, it's like his, lips to God's ears, man. Peter Buneta is a legend in his own right and it's like one of the greatest who's ever done it and is not ever like how Julian's got his own success and has been

is not, his father's success has never, never stifled him by any means. He's gone it and done it all by itself and fun with the way he, that's, that's the way I see fatherhood and childhood like being like if I'm so lucky to have my child do that, that it carves his own way and his own path and then also just has that support and that support without ever feeling, you know, just like we were talking about, that support of like, it is attainable, but also without being too, I guess, like, not, you know, I think, I think their relationship, his dad and Julian and his dad are just like, that's, that's the whole culture of what they've built and the whole culture I hope to have with my family, if my child does want to do music at all.

But Peter Benito is a fucking legend, dude. This isn't a question, but I feel like I have to ask this would be, for number three, would be songwriting versus being an artist. I don't know that I can ever, I don't know if I can ever do either. I think I'd have to do both at the same time. I don't, I think the way that I approach songwriting is as,

is as someone who knows what it takes to do that. So I know even as a songwriter, if I'm just songwriting for the artist in the room, I know what it's going to take for the artist to love that in order to go to every fucking interview and do every 6 a.m. singing that song. And I know what it takes to have to love that song and fall in love of that song every day.

And so I find it if I'm songwriting, it's totally more so about making that fucking artist feel comfortable, even if the song is suffers from the artist's comfortable, like the artist has got to be comfortable singing that song. So if the song is not a number one hit because I know it takes to be a number one hit and this kid's never had that. Like I don't know.

It's going to be a number one hit if that kid does all the work that it takes to push that song, to make that song and loves that song and falls in love with that song and it's more about them. And so I think it's, I think I think songwriting, I always approach from my own artist, like not perspective, but my, but what it takes to make a song, how it takes an artist to push a song to where it needs to be. You know, the artist is the one at the end of the day, taking this song and making every one of us of writers the thing that it is. So I just, if I'm writing for an artist, I always, you know, I'm not, I'm not ignorant to that process.

So I try to just, you know, still be an artist in the room. Rage. Man, I love her so much. That's a beautiful woman. And I'm so grateful for that. She's changed my whole perspective on life and love and what it's like to be a person that's so kind and beautiful. And watching her become a mother, it's just like watching her just build this inside of her and how perceptive she is about everything and thoughtful she is about everything. There's just nothing.

She's thinking she doesn't take anything. anything lightly. There's not anything that it's not already calculated thought and thought and thought out and thought out. And she's like slowed me down so much on being reactive to things. You know, I think, I think she's, she's a very, very thoughtful person and not just reactive. And I think, yeah, I would just say just, what a fucking awesome human being, man. Your unborn kid. God. I'm so, I don't want to cry, but. I just hope they think I'm cool, man.

You know, I like, I look my dad as the coolest person in the world and I just want, like, I want my baby to be like, I'm kind of scared to have him as granddad, you know, because I know he's living in his shadow already as a granddad. He's the fucking coolest guy in the world and I just hope that the way I talk about my father that my baby like will talk about me like that one day, you know, and say like I had the most honest and emotionally available and intelligent person. And I just hope my child will say that about me one day. I hope I will live up to that for that baby.

I want to be that and be the safest, softest place to land for that child. And I hope that I can do what my dad did for me. Yeah, dude, fuck. Well, I can say that as somebody who's been in the room with you, and I said it even in the intro, it's like, I've never said that. I've done 200 of these interviews. I'm never like, this is the effinicest dude.

Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. It's the fact that... I'm my daddy's son, bro. I swear to God. We all feel like we're in a safe place in a session with you. And it's not, again, I think you shortchange yourself sometimes when you describe yourself

because we need you as much as you need anybody in this. And we need to have collaborators like you, anybody, or we're in a room where it just feels like it doesn't matter. And I don't know if you can curate a good song. I still, for the rest of my life, will not believe that you can ever really schedule a great song. You can't, no. You can't. But you can schedule a good day and you can be with good friends and you can just know that you're with those safe people. And, you know, you will be a good dad. Thank you, sir. Yeah. You will be a good dad. I've received that. I know who you are. I see you. Yeah, I received that, man. Yeah, I received that, man. Yeah,

I think it's so beautiful that you said. You can't schedule a good song, but you can schedule a good day. Fucking right, dude. Yeah. And tomorrow is always going to be a better one too, man. You can't fucking beat it. Well, listen, man, I'm so proud of the success you've had. And, you know, all the, I didn't even, the fact that something like lose control

took 39 weeks to go number one is even the most Teddy Swims stat ever. Dude, you know, we're seven, like seven or eight weeks from it. being the longest running top 10 ever, which is fucking crazy. Like it's the most Teddy, these are the most Teddy Swims stats because it's this like patient family vibe.

It's not like, there is no flash in the pan vibe because it's just not that story. That's just somebody else's story. Like that's not your story. And look, man, the Grammy's best new artist category this year is pretty exciting

because it's all people who are not new. You know? You know, the whole, like, like, this is a celebration of work, I think. Yeah, amen. And your success is, like, a success story for not just you, but all your, your whole community that you're bringing with you. And, I mean, it's just fun that, like,

you can't help a root on your friends throughout this process. So, fucking go kill it this weekend. Yes, sir. And, you know, forever and ever. Amen, you too, buddy. I appreciate you. I love you, bud. I love you, man.

That's so, dude, fuck yeah, dude. This is fun. Thank you, man. We hope you enjoyed this episode. It was produced by me and Joe London in association with mega house music group. If you like this episode, go give us a rating at wherever you listen to your podcast. And make sure to follow us at And The Writer is on all your socials. We'll see you next week.