And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan - Ep. 207: D'Mile | From a Crammed Apartment to The Sound of a Generation, Silk Sonic, and more

Episode Date: April 21, 2025

Today’s guest is the mastermind behind some of the most captivating sounds in modern R&B and pop. With an ear for creating melodies that feel as intimate as they do expansive, he’s responsible for shaping hits that make you feel everything from joy to heartbreak. Whether he's behind the boards or penning the perfect lyrics, his ability to blend vulnerability with irresistible hooks has made him a go-to collaborator for some of the biggest names in music. From soulful ballads to undeniable bangers, his tracks are the ones that never leave your head—and always leave you wanting more. And the producer and songwriter is...Dernst "D'Mile" Emile II!00:00 - Cold Open: Gaga, Bruno & a Midnight Session 00:28 - Intro: Welcome to And The Writer Is  01:22 - How D’Mile Got His Name  05:10 - Growing Up with Jazz, Gospel & Biggie  10:30 - Producing His First Song at Age 6  12:15 - Almost Signed to Universal at 19  16:45 - Rodney Jerkins & Darkchild Studio Era  21:05 - 9 Creatives in a 3-Bedroom Apartment  25:30 - Inspiration vs. Competition in the Come-Up  27:20 - D’Mile Nearly Quit Music in 2017  34:17 - The Comeback: Lucky Daye & Victoria Monét  38:16 - How Silk Sonic Started from One Song  46:44 - Making “Leave the Door Open”  50:18 - “Die With A Smile” feat. Gaga & Bruno  51:58 - Producing the Artist’s Soul  59:00 - Copy-Paste Industry vs. Timeless Records  01:01:08 - Final Thoughts: Doing It His Way Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to And The Writer is. I am your host, Ross Golan. There are millions of singers and thousands of artists, but only 40 songs per genre at a time. This podcast aims to shed a light on those creators who make those songs. I produce this with my friend Joe London in association with Megahouse music group. Special shout out, Charlotte Isidore, Jad, and Michael White. And you can follow us at And The Writer is on all your. your socials and make sure to share your music with the and the writer is community we'll see you there now this week's episode how do you meet anerson pack and bruno mars man well it started with me meeting bruno's how did it come to be next thing i know james calls me on a wednesday he's like yo what are you doing on friday bruno wants to meet you pull up to the studio welcome to and the writer is i am your host ross golin today's super producer is a musical architect who's a musical architect who's who's designed the smashiest hits for some of the biggest voices in the industry. By bridging classic vibes with contemporary soundscapes,

he has become one of the most sought-after collaborators in the game. His accolades include an Oscar and an astounding five Grammy Awards and a bunch of other nominations, a humble innovator, a clear visionary, and a true master of his craft. This man always makes his co-writer smile because he's a nice guy. And the writer is my friend, D. Mile. So what's up? How's it going?

I mean, we got to start from what we were just about. You were just about to say, well, you know how I got my name. Well, how did you get the name, Dima? Well, yeah. So when I started, I was going by D. Emile. So Emil's my last name. And I don't know, I was just trying to be cool. So the way I spelled it was like just my first initial and then my last name.

something like that and then maybe a few months later I got in contact with RJ Rodney Jerkins and we met and all that stuff and he kept calling me

D-Mile D-Mile D-Mile and I didn't want to correct him because I was so starstruck I was like you know what? That's Rodney my name is D-Mile from now on and it stuck with me forever I love that

Rodney Jirkins new song songwriter Hall of Fame inductee this year. It's pretty amazing. Yeah, deserving. There's something about the, you know, why does Rodney Jerkins' protégés turn into, you know, you're not the only protege that's like become a legend. Obviously, I think Tommy Brown was, like, he's been on this podcast, you know.

There's a few people who come from that school. Yeah. I know I've been in that studio before, and it was just like a machine of, churning out music. Yeah. When did you start with, Rodney? How did that start? It was 2000 and I think we met 2005, so 2006 to like 2008, 2009.

I was with him over there. But the way we connected, I used to go to this church in New York. I'm from Brooklyn, but there's this church in Queens, greater Allen Cathedral. The MD was really good friends with Rodney. I think they still are, Stanley Brown, who's actually big-time producer. He did, like, Drew Hill, Tell Me, and all that stuff. And a bunch of other stuff. But he told Rodney about me, and he linked us, and that's kind of how that started.

Yeah, I was having a conversation with someone yesterday who came in the studio, whose dad is a pastor. And, you know, we talk about a lot on this podcast, how much being. a church musician is so valuable because you can you make you know you have you have to kind of keep it condensed it has to be easy to sing it has to be beautiful has to be emotional right um let's you know how how did you i assume that you made music for the church or in the church like how did this guy meet you um literally because so i had friends that i went to high school with and they went to that church. And they started inviting me to come. And I would just go just to go. And maybe sometimes, like, I never really was part of playing with the church for the church.

But every once in a while I would play with them. It was really like playing with my friends in school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then people started hearing about me at the church. And Stanley was one of the guys. You know what I mean? But everybody always thinks I came from church. But that was like, I started going after high school. Oh, that's crazy. Well, let's start from the beginning. Okay, so you're born. Yeah, I'm born. Yeah, there you go.

All right. 1985, right. Yeah, born in 1985, okay. Born and raised in Brooklyn. So it's really my mom and dad. They're musicians. My mom was a singer. My dad, to this day, gives private lessons.

So that's really where I got all of my knowledge from. He teaches drums, piano, bass, guitar. he had students that literally dropped out of college because they were learning more from him. You know what I mean? But his main thing is jazz. So that's kind of where all that knowledge came from, which I think jazz and, you know, like gospel music, they have a lot of, you know, similarities. You know, I think that's like the parent of gospel. So I can see why people think that's the case.

And I'll take it. But yeah, it's really just from home. When you grew up in a house where there are a lot of instruments, which instrument did you choose first? I want to say drums just because it was fun, but I think it was piano. Yeah, I think so. Did you feel pressure to play?

No, I wanted to. I wanted to. The only thing I didn't want to as much was like sit down and study and all that stuff. I just wanted to play and all that stuff. But I'm so happy that my dad still kind of gave me the freedom to, like he would sit me down sometimes, but he would not make it so that it's turned into something

I just don't want to do anymore. So I had the freedom to really just explore and learn on my own, on top of still get to, you know, the little things here and there from my dad, which I probably wish I sat down a little more. be honest, but... It's a weird thing, though, because I think most creatives, when they sit at an instrument, they start creating with that instrument. And none of us ever want to, like, study.

We just want to make stuff. So you started studying, you start learning the chord change. Like, well, what if I do this? And then, yeah, I could say, like, that's how we, I think that's how the creative sort of branch off and the players sort of branch off that way. But being born in, in mid-80s and having your childhood through the early 90s, I, Brooklyn and New York is a hot spot. Did you, like how much of the regional area music influenced you growing up being, I mean,

obviously the iconic hip-hop music that was coming out of there feels like that. We were all being influenced by that. Was that seeping through the doors of your house? Oh, yeah, definitely. It took a while because at first I remember. growing up, I was really only listening to like smooth jazz, the radio station. Like it was CD 101.1.1.9 back in the day. Because that's what your dad would listen to.

Yeah. But that's what I was enjoying to. That's what my mom was listening to. Like, every time we go to a car. So, or, you know, we're driving or we just listen to the radio at home. But it wasn't until, let's say maybe around 95. And I started hearing about Biggie Smalls. You know what I mean? 95, 96, I think that was when I started really seeing what Brooklyn was about. So it's so funny because it wasn't like in my world for like the first 10 years of my life, hip hop wasn't.

But I instantly just gravitated to it. And of course, R&B was there. Of course, you know, the Whitney Houston and all that stuff. But hip hop wise, Biggie was like the first thing I heard where I was like, oh, this is New York. Did your dad or mom have an opinion about that kind of music? You know, the elitism, I feel like when I was in, like, music school, and I was like, no, I want to do pop music.

They're like, yeah, that's, that, they look down on it. Did they look down on hip-hop or was it sort of like, no, this is a new thing? Because it was kind of still new in a lot of ways. Like, how did they digest that kind of music? I think they were in the middle. It wasn't for them, but I think they understood it, you know. And there were some songs that would come through and my mom would, like, enjoy.

And like... Like what? Oh, God, I got to think about it. I know, well, this is much later, but, like, Mr. Officer by Little Wayne was one. that she really liked. My whole family actually liked that one. My aunt loves that song.

With the wee, wee, we, we, we. Like, you know what I mean? But there's some, like, those catchy hip-hop songs that you just can't deny. Yeah. You know, they'll enjoy those things. I'm trying to think, like, did he, like, did my dad or my mom like any of the biggie stuff or the bad boy stuff at that time? I want to say, yeah, a little bit.

But again, it wasn't like, don't listen to it. Right, right. It wasn't like you were getting in trouble. But were you starting to choose to listen to that instead of the jazz? And then how soon after listening to that were you, like, what was the impetus that made you create music? Yeah. Well, not instead, just along. I just added it to all the stuff that I listened to.

But I think from the beginning, like, I kind of just wanted to. wanted to create and I started creating actually am on my mom's first album she has this project that's known in the Haitian market I was six

I think and that was my first time producing a song You were six? Yeah What? Yep, five or six and it was an interlude from my mom's album.

Is it still available somewhere? Yeah, you can still find it. I don't know if it's on streaming but I can send it to you if it's not on there. I mean, I definitely want to hear it. Just out of like that, like I've tried to sample my kids so maybe they could get some sag after at some point. Yeah, right, right.

I don't know if that's like intentionally producing something. It's funny because like you have like the Rodney Jerkinses who are like producing Destiny's child at 18 years old or 17 years old or something like that. But it's six. I feel like you're almost, you know, I haven't heard that yet. Yeah. Did you, from then, I mean, that feels crazy, but at six or seven, when you're like, oh, this is what I do for my life?

Yeah. Yeah. It's never even wavered. Yeah, never wavered. I had no plan B. There was no, like, I knew from probably even before that point, but from that point on, that this is what I wanted to do. This is one of the things about showing that certain occupations are just attainable.

Yeah. That if you grow up when your parents are a musician, It's like, yeah, this is a total legitimate job. Right. You know? So do you have siblings? Yes. I have a sister and I have a little brother now who's seven.

Whoa. And I'm 40. Wow. That's, yeah. Does he have a music affinity at seven? Yeah, I think he's really into it. I think he's going to end up doing something. My sister already does.

What does she do? She writes. She plays guitar. But she's a songwriter. She's really good. Do you guys write together? Not enough. She lives in Mississippi now, which I think is part of the reason.

She's kind of working on like a little EP actually in the moment. And I did do a song with her on that one. It was like a little five, six song EP that she's been trying to finish. So, you know, six or seven, you're like, this feels so weird. Like nobody at six or seven is confident what they're going to do for their life unless they want to be like a cowboy or a. a fireman you know it's like it's not like a realist that's amazing so when was the first time that you produced something that was away from the family that you felt like you could kind of be like this is my music and were you the artist at that point uh well shoot yeah i guess you can say that

i so i was doing music um and writing which i hated writing um but i had no i I didn't know any writers at the time. And this was like all through high school. So I would have all these songs. And then I had enough to like do an album. And funny enough, I almost got signed to Universal when I was like 19. But I didn't want to be an artist. I didn't.

And I, if I'm correct, everybody in the building wanted to sign me except for Sylvia Rome. Wow. That's pretty funny now. Do you tell her that? No, well, I haven't seen her since. Oh, wow. Yeah, I don't think I have. Like maybe from afar, but we never spoke about it.

How does somebody get, you know, at 19 years old in the middle of Brooklyn, how does somebody get discovered at 19 years old? Man. Man, I had my partner who I'm still, you know, I still rock with Brother Sean. It's funny, he, my other partner, brother Colin, used to take lessons from my dad. Actually, he's taking lessons from him again. Like, they're back doing it again. Like currently?

Yeah. Yeah, amazing. But back then, I was, what, 16, 17? And I guess my dad played him, like, some tapes that I had of some of those songs that I was either working on or whatever. And I just been with them ever since. And we've been, like, literally, like, just sowing the seeds and grinding it out in Brooklyn, just trying to get her, trying to, you know, put my name out there and all that stuff. I remember like I got to meet Swiss Beats. I think he was in studio with David Banner.

It was like five in the morning. I had school the next day and just, you know, trying to be heard. And I'll never forget he saw me. He was like, yeah, you look like a mad scientist. But we never like got to do anything. But, you know, we just had those kind of moments of, you know, just really just grinding and out and just trying to get known. and then eventually, you know, it started working.

NMPA is the premier organization for music publishers and their songwriter partners. It's their mission to increase the value of music, and that's exactly what they do. NNPA is working right now to raise royalty rates for songwriters from streaming services, radio, social media, and everywhere, music is essential. From the courts to Congress, NNPA works to get songwriters what they're. They deserve. I know because I've served on the board before, and I'm the current co-chair,

along with Ryan Tetter and Liz Rose, for the Golden Platinum Club. So again, thank you, NMPA for supporting and The Writer is and songwriters everywhere. There's a moment when, you know, when you are trying to make music because that's what you do, and then there's a moment of like, I want to be great.

Yeah. When was the moment when you said, I want to be great. Man, these are good questions. I think, honestly, probably from the beginning, like once I saw that it was possible and I was starting to get like actual

placements. And again, as soon as I got like got with Rodney and I'm just seeing what it could be and, you know, there was one time I was at his house in Orlando.

and the room that I was in, the closet had a whole bunch of these tapes that he had. And it was tapes of sessions that he had with big artists at his house. Like, he had a studio right next to that room. And one of the tapes, I put it in, and it was like a session with him and Michael Jackson in that room. And I'm like, this is where I am right now. like this can happen, you know? And I remember, I remember just like crying one night, just like tears of joy, just is grateful to even just have the opportunity at that time.

And really just thanking God for just the opportunity. So I think that was like the beginning of like, yo, this could be me one day, you know. Rodney's great at bringing in unknown talent. and you know squeezing out a lot of that yeah like music and it it really is one of those I guess I probably started writing over at the studio on you know Santa Monica and what is that like Western yeah whatever that's yeah probably in like maybe 2010 yeah that sounds about right you know kind of leading into like the Bieber era of Rodney yep and he had that one plaque that has you know, a hundred million.

You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, the diamond one. There's like diamond and then there was that. Yeah. And I was just like, this, this being so close to that, I didn't have the songs yet either. That's probably about, I actually looked up when we first met. Yeah. Yeah.

The first time we wrote. It was a writing camp, right? It was, yeah. And the song, this is, I actually talk about this in Tricky Stewart's episode. Nice. But I was like, it was October. of 2011. Yeah.

So we've been friends for a while. And I think it might be the only song that you and I've actually written together. And I just, I'll just say the story again. I was like, we wrote the song and I sent it to, maybe I didn't send it. I don't know who sent it to Tricky. Yeah. But Tricky was working on some girl group when he was at Epic. Yes, exactly.

And he hit me up and we were, that must have been what the writing camp was for. Yeah, I think it was because he was there and he was a part of that camp for sure. And then he called and I was with my family in Mexico and my mom answered because my mom didn't have like the filter of like, hey, my son is now a professional. And so she's answering it like, hello, and like a really Chicago accent, you know, and it's like I'm Tricky Stewart. And she's like, well, he's not here right now. Can I take a message? Just like not understanding like this is not. It was just like one of those like highly embarrassing.

moments of like this is my this is my life you know and uh but that was the first time i met tricky too it's like i know it's fun to see what happens and and in a short amount of time but that was the first time i met him too actually really yeah the same like same camp like that same time what a legend yeah um at that era are you exclusively signed to rodney but at that time or is that before oh you were done it already at that point so you come out of out here in 2005, you said? Is that? Well, so I joined him in 2006, but we were still in Jersey.

And we moved out here in 2008. Got it. In 2009, I ran, you know, I started doing my own thing. Those first three years, like, you're kind of grinding out and probably doing just beat after beat after beat after beat after beat, song after beat. I know that world. It's like two sessions a day is barely enough. Yeah.

Like, you know, you're probably going through MIDI controllers. If you've ever seen Rodney on a MIDI controller, like, you're breaking that shit. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I had his NPC 3000 on deck. Like, I was using all of his stuff. Yeah, those were all fun times. But you, if you show up somewhere and you see, you know, you listen to Michael Jackson, unreleased recordings and whatnot.

And then you're sitting in a room and you're spending from 2005, essentially to 2008. Without like, I don't want to say a lot to show for it. Yeah. But you're really, that's your, that's like, that's like college. You know? That's like a serious amount of time. That's literally what it was.

It was a bunch of us. So it was like we had a whole, you know, he had a team. And I always felt like we were either in college or like we were like the X men of music. We always used to say that. Who were the other people in that? God, at that time. So there's different like phases. But at that time, it was me.

my boy Osanachi came like right before we moved to LA but then they had A-plus Anteia and Anisha from Detroit Delicia from Detroit that was like mainly us in Jersey and then once everything changed and we moved out here

me OCE my boy Mikey who was his engineer at the time my friend Ba who's on Currently, recently, Beyonce's last two albums, he's on there. But he's been with us since we moved out to L.A., I think Ronnie brought him out here. And then we all lived together at this apartment in North Hollywood.

And then that's when the Tommies and the Vickies came, we had a three-bedroom apartment. And it ended up being like nine of us living in there at the same time, including Tompies. Tommy, Tommy Brown, Tommy Parker, Victoria and Monet. And then the main guys who actually lived there, me, Mikey, and Onanachi. Like, we figured it out with all nine of us. You guys all lived it. This is like a reality show for sure. It was definitely that.

We were just thugging it out. When you guys are all in a three-bedroom apartment, I can't envision nine people in a three-bedroom apartment. Yeah. And also just like those, I mean, like icons in a room. Are you guys all still close? Yeah. Yeah. It's sort of like going through boot camp together.

Yeah. It's like it's a family you can't break up. That's why I like to say. How, you know, I'm envisioning that if you guys are all in that studio and you're there doing session after session after session and then all just like going together and then coming back home or is it like rotating brilliance? Yeah. Yeah. Some of us, yeah, it was mostly like that. But then, you know, it was weird too because when I left, I was the only one that lived in the house that wasn't going to Rani Studio anymore.

But they would always go every day and then I would just be like, I don't know, what do I do? I had a phase of like, what's going to? Business stuff or whatever. It just was time. Yeah, I think it was just time. But I'll never forget those moments. But, you know, I was still trying to figure out at that point, like, okay, where do I go from here? And it was like a little break that I needed anyway from just like the everyday kind of, you know, working and just slaving out and just coming up with 10 tracks that I don't know if anybody's going to like and all that stuff.

So I would like use the time to like just go to the mall. and just, you know, go away. Anytime the girls, like Vicki was in a girl group. And funny enough, one of the girls from the group, we went to high school together. So that's kind of how nine people in the room in our apartment happened. Because she had to stay with us, and it turned into all of them staying with us. And so, like, sometimes when they were not working, I would go to the mall with them and we'd just hang out, chill, or we'd go out to eat, we'd do these things.

So it was like a good kind of getaway until I was like, all right, I got to just get back in the game and let me just re-buy, like, let me buy my own laptop, let me buy my own this and just start like taking a serious again and working and then just find my way through that, you know. How much of the competition created amongst those nine people influenced your drive? Because those are the literally you name five of the most talented people still in the music game. You know what's funny? I feel like

not everybody, but I feel like Tommy Brown was definitely probably more competitive than I was. I didn't really like the competition aspect of it. I was always just like, you know,

happy for whoever makes it and whoever gets something, you know, going on stuff but I feel like Rodney used to always like play those kind of games. I can't confirm it, but it felt like that where he would like do certain things to make you feel like everybody else got to step it up. He's like, oh, Tommy just sent something blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, whatever. And I just be like, whatever, I'm not even paying it no mind because I don't want to create

no, I don't know, no beef. But I know what he was doing, but I was just like, that's not phasing me. I'm just going to do whatever I do. You know, congratulations Tommy. Congratulations, whoever it was. But, you know, I felt like it did help in general. And probably in still some way, even though I wasn't like paying attention to it, like, okay, this is war. It's still, I was still inspired because these were all talented people, all great people. Like, you know, all the people that I named, like, they all just have a special thing that when

you listen to it, you're just like, damn, you know? So, yeah, inspiration-wise, I was more inspired. I think I'd rather say. I mean, I said in the beginning, like, your reputation is that you're one of the nice guys, and there is this industry is just, that's, I don't want to say that I'm not really a negative guy. I think there are a lot of nice people in the music business. I really believe that.

but when you know the the the worst of people happens when you're like uh when people are trying to show that they're great yeah sure and they're not there yet yeah and to put you know the nine people in a room that are all grinding feels really volatile sure and then to have you kind of you know separate from that crew and be like all right i'm gonna i'm gonna make my own path did um You know, the, how did you maintain yourself in an industry where that's not always encouraged? Sure. I think it was because, like, I was, I would just get away from it and do regular person stuff. Like, I would, sometimes, I still do this every once in a while.

I go to movies by myself. You know what I mean? And I watch, you know, at that time, back then, I was like a big. fan of Twilight and I remember I remember something happening where like I would leave Rodney's studio this was still when I was with him and I walked all the way to Citywalk

just to catch a movie I don't know why I didn't catch a cab or whatever but his studio wasn't that far but I shouldn't have walked but you know sometimes I just needed those moments to like get away even while I was there coming out of it, you know, I had a lot of time to do that as well. It's also an iPod era.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, yeah, walking and listening to a lot of music, but you're not distracted, really. Right. You know, like, maybe you're texting people and like, yeah. Like to say the word like, and would be like click, click, click, click, click. Right. But even during all that, and this is the other thing, a lot of times people are like, oh,

if I could get in a bigger room, then I would have all the cuts. Sure. And you're like, no, no, your room, your literal room, had the futures, like, Hall of Famers in it. Yep. And you're all working out of a literal now Hall of Famer. Yeah. And you have these people who are like, you know, the assumption is, oh, just give me one day and I'll show it.

And it's not. It's like, I'm going to show three years and still not really have a lot to show for it, you know? Yeah. Yeah. But once you start getting cuts, it's the biggest names. It's like, you know, Janet Jackson is pretty significant. Yeah. You know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was huge. You know, I feel like even then there's still like the Janet Jackson stuff comes out in 2008. And then there's still like a lot of proving from then all the way to like end of 2014. I mean, even when we met like you were still like a guy who's doing legit sessions doing all this stuff. How do you stay positive during? a time of being professional. Yeah.

But not being a star yet. Right. It was tough for sure. But, you know, for me, it was always, it always started with the love of what I do, you know. Just because I loved doing what I do and I still do, I think you can get a lot of positivity from that, you know. So, you know, it wasn't as much about, I don't know. Oh, I'm just trying to get on, or I'm just trying to whatever. Like, those were in the back of my mind for sure.

Like, I want to be the greatest I could be. But it was still just fun to do, you know. It was still fun to be able to have these opportunities and try to, you know, make music that I felt good about, but hopefully everybody else might feel good about. I think it just started getting harder when, you know, it just started not adding up as much. It's like all this hard work you do. And then it's just like, you know, you remember the times where it's like, people

would tell you like, oh, this is going to be the first single, this is going to be the hit, whatever. And then you're not on the album anymore by the time the shit comes out. I felt like that was happening too much, you know. So after a while of that, you know, I don't really know how I kept going, but I know I got to a point where I almost considered quitting. And this was probably around 2017, 18, maybe.

Whoa, so this is like... Maybe 16, yeah. At that point, you know, you'd already had... I had good stuff going on and all that stuff. Yeah, yeah. You know, I don't know. It still was like... And I remember at that time I was...

It was like all the Tidalas signs are starting to... You know, you've had like a number, you know, a number of like big names. Yeah, and one good thing that I, at that time that I was starting to do that I'm proud of. Like you mentioned Todd Dollar sign, I was executive producing a lot more where I never had the chance to do that before, you know. So why were you going to quit? Because I just felt like even though I was doing those stuff, I still wasn't getting like the single chances. And maybe I just didn't, you know, I wasn't ready, let's say.

Why weren't you getting the single chances? I don't know. Like looking back. All right. Well, so for Ty Dollar, for instance, no one can deny that Ty Dollar and mustard had something special together. So it kind of made sense. I was doing the more musical stuff, but Ty and Mustard were doing the party shit.

You know what I mean? So, of course. You know what I mean? And I was okay with that. But I think even more important than that, I think I was also trying to show that I'm not just R&B. So I was trying to get in the pop or get back in the pop game, whatever you want to call it.

And I don't know, I just felt like it was harder or something for me. I don't know for people to not keep me in that box. You know what I mean? And even with all of the success, I was just like, I feel like people still don't even know. You know what I mean? I feel like people still don't know what I can do, what I know me, what I'm into.

like I grew up loving all types of music. Like one of my favorite bands at a time growing up was like Paramore. But, you know, I'll probably never work with Paramore. And but I wanted to show all of those things. Like all the types of music that I like, I want to, I don't want to just be, oh, he's an R&B producer. So I don't know. At that time, I just, I just was like, something's got to give.

And it's funny enough, I meet Lucky Day and then we do an R&B album. And then that honestly kind of changed. I think people started looking at me more after that album, which is funny. How much does race play into the industry pigeon holeing different people? And how has that affected you doing things like Paramore? I'm still trying to figure that out. I don't know. I don't really know.

I always, I feel like I'm, I am oblivious a lot of times and I could be blind to seeing if something is, or someone is being racist or there's some racial, racial stuff going on. So I never really know. I think honestly, when you like mentioned Paramour, I just think, it just never happened. Also, they do their own stuff. So, of course, that's just like a. in the back kind of dream I've had. Like, I still want to find a rock band of my own or something like that.

But, you know, I think it was just more so people just didn't know or they don't know more than, I don't know if there's instances where it's like... I've had this conversation with a significant producer who, you know, is one of the greatest pop producers. and every time he would go in the room, it would be like, you know, the publishers of the labels would all of a sudden put him in the, to, you know, like, oh, no, you're, you do, you do this kind of hip-on, this kind of R&B, did this soul.

Right. And he's like, no, no, I'm like the poppiest of the producers. Yeah, right. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And it's like, there's like, there's definitely profiling, but, yeah, I don't know. I mean, this is one of the things also with your background,

musically and the diversity that you have and and this is the best part of growing up doing jazz is like you really it's it's it's a really like it's all the genres yeah yeah like the biggest jazz standards are like from musicals or they're from yeah right they're either from musicals or they're from you know Robert Johnson like it's like it's really like it's really diverse and in like Like where it comes from. Yeah. And I think, you know, that puts you in a place where you can do any genre. Right.

And it's like it, that's just like such an advantage. Yeah. When, you know, the Lucky Day stuff, which is obviously incredible and kind of defines who he is. And, you know, as an artist, you know, to get back in with Victoria Monet, though, in 2020, your roommate. Yep. You know, this is probably right after seven rings, maybe, is, you know, like. Yeah. And so she's like, I think it was right about when she was on this podcast too.

But she was, you know, she's getting to work with someone that you have a 10 year, a decade long relationship, longer than that at that point. Yeah. You know, did it feel like it was a relief to just be able to do that kind of music? I mean, yes. the rest of the weird thing it's like when you're talking about there's all these party kind of

party music and you're like no I do the more musical kind of stuff is that if you stick around long enough in the music business it will come back to you yeah exactly and your vibe will have its shot if you're here

and it's like the lucky day stuff gives everyone like the oh here's DMA this shit's amazing sure the Victoria Monet stuff is like it becomes literally like it's the level it's a it's the level where we all kind of are it's changes the whole trajectory to me yeah yeah um tell me about working with victoria mona yeah and with your friendship and everything how does that how did this conversation happen

like who's who said who called you and was like can you did you call her did she call you no uh gosh i did i'm sure she called me once she knew she wanted to you know do that album. But it's weird too because we kind of already been working together for so long. Like I've really been a part of all of her projects, I think. Maybe there's one that I'm not on. But like her EPs that she was doing before, before everybody really knew her. I was on there from the first one.

Yeah, great. Because actually where the studio I was at, like around when I met you for a while and for like five or six years it was this studio in north hollywood they were right downstairs for me you know i mean so it was just like oh yeah oh y'all in let's work let's do some stuff so we wrote some stuff we did some stuff for her you know and we just we were just trying shit um hers and gabby her no um no no no actually vicky yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i've got a lot of that yeah yeah yeah yeah we'll get there right we'll get there um so that already was always a thing.

And, you know, at that time, you know, her and Tommy were together. But then they had broke up. And then we did another EP, like, right after that, which was basically all about the breakup, I think, most of it anyway. So we've always been doing it. And it just all led up to, you know, the success she had with the Ariana stuff. And, you know, she was just ready to be like, all right, I want to do an album, album for real.

And Jaguar happened. So it was just always like, just a phone call away. It's like always easy. It's like, yeah, automatic. I'm always going to work with you. And, you know, we have that mutual thing. So one problem with people having quality studios and, you know, in homes and is separate from each other.

Sure. Is that you lose the proximity that I think we all had when we first started when it was, people didn't really have studios. And you had like a working studio in your house, but like you still went to a studio more often than you did. didn't. Yeah. And proximity matters. Yeah, definitely. I wish that we had more of that. Me too. Me too. Like just being able to knock on a door and say, what are you doing right now? Yeah. And, you know, trying to create those environments. Yeah, for sure. I mean, we can, I want to go back to the, the trajectory, but you currently have, you know, our friend Mio, you have an imprint out of there.

Yes. You got, you know, are you, what's the purpose of doing more, the business, side for you. Is it to create that community? Yeah, exactly, actually. I feel like I feel like I've done that already with, you know, with the luckies and Vickies and these are my friends, you know, so much to the point where people think that they are my artists, but they're not. They're just like, you know, friends I grew up with that I always felt like we were dope and I just believed in them and, you know, I just wanted to help in anyone. But I came to a point, you know, where I was like, we can do this, but make it ours, you know, like let's do this.

Let's just, let's do it for real with our own label and just kind of recreate what we created with all the people we gave away if you want to say it like that. Yeah. You know. How do you know Lucky Day? What's the story there? I met him through Ronnie. I think the first time I met him, I think he had a.

a writing session with him. And this was right when I was leaving, which was funny. And then I ran into him again in Atlanta. I think for the first time we worked together, and I can't remember what year it was, but it was a long time ago. Funny enough, I knew about him for a long time

because I used to watch American Idol, and he was in like season two. What? I was like checking him out since then. Yeah. Like, he was, he was, he was dope to me since then. I think he made it to, like, the final 20 or whatever. But, yeah, like, there's, like, a famous clip that's out there, like, of his audition.

And they are all saying, you're going to L.A. So I've known him since then. Yeah. Wow. When you start working with Silk Sonic. Yeah. I mean, like, the coolest super group of all time. Sure.

Yeah. How, you know, at this point, you've established yourself. You've worked with all, like, a lot of the credible art. You've made these credible projects with your friends. Yeah. And then here's Anderson Pack and Bruno Mars. Yep. How do you meet Anderson Pack and Bruno Mars?

Man. Well, it started with me meeting Bruno. So Bruno, from what I understand, has, I guess, loosely been checking me out. But we also have a mutual friend in James Fontlauoy and Brody, Brody Brown, who I think, I guess they vouch for me. I guess Brunno asked him like, yo, should I bring him in? Like, you know him or whatever? And next thing I know, James calls me on a Wednesday.

It's like, yo, what are you doing on Friday? I'm like, I don't think I got anything going on. Bruno wants to meet you. Pull up to the studio. I'm like, I bet. And that was like 2019, like in the summertime. And he's held me hostageness. Yeah.

So at that time, we were like, you know, working on just ideas, working on stuff. We didn't even know, me or Bruno didn't know that it was going to turn into Siliconic yet. So I think I met Andy before that at a festival briefly. And we're like, we got to work one day, never happened. But I didn't really know Andy yet. And one day I'm in the studio with Bruno and he tells me about this hook idea that he did start maybe five years prior with Andy when they were on tour together. and he sings it to me and it's smoking out the window

and I'm like that's crazy so I remember telling him hold on I put my headphones on and I start like a little thing that inspired me

from him singing that and that sparked like this whole thing in the room and then once we got it to a certain place after what weeks up working on it. He calls Andy in and he's like, yo, I think we have a song for that smoking out the window idea we had.

And then they got together, started writing the verses. It was like right before, I feel like it was like right on Andy's birthday, like top of January, right before the pandemic hit. And we got it to a place. And then the world stopped. Of course. Right. And then after that, we were just like, what do we do now?

We weren't allowed to go in the studio, whatever. A few months go by. And then we worked out a way to kind of just, if we just kind of all make sure we just stay safe away from each other. And when we get to the studio, it would be just me, Bruno, Andy, the engineer, Chuck, and the assistant. and we just try to quarantine as much as we can, but always get together and just like work through the pandemic. And that's what we did. But with that happening, that's kind of when it started being like,

wait, this could be more than just a song because it was just supposed to be smoking out the window. And then it turned into, let's do like a three-song EP. Then it turned into. Now, we could do an album. So that's kind of how that all started. I mean, it was such a relief to hear that album when that album came out because there was so much music that was, you know, was everyone during the pandemic, releasing this quiet diary or Xanaxed out, whatever. And then there's like, you know, leave the door open.

And I was like, ah, yeah. You know, it just changed the whole thing. Yeah. Working with, you know, what's it like working with Bruno in a studio? Hard. Why? Because, you know, he's always striving for the best, you know, which I admire. But he also, for the way he works, he knows what it takes to, to, to, you know.

get to that point. And he always has to like try every little thing before we say, all right, we did it. So we'll literally do so many versions of probably the same song. Funny enough, like the first song, when I did meet him that first day, what we were working on was the first version ever of Leave the Door Open. It was called something completely different back then. But I was working on Leave the Door Open since the day I met him up until it came out, which was, what I said, 2019 is when we met. It came out with 2021.

So yeah. Yeah, that's the difference of being a professional. Yeah. And not is this drive where you can edit and there are no rules. You're not precious about anything. Nothing's precious. Right. We get all these, I mean, how many times have you been in a session?

with somebody's new who has kind of an ego doesn't want to change a thing. And you're like, what are you talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the best in the world, edit. Yeah. And the edit. Yeah. And it's never good enough.

And you're better off not releasing something that was really good. Yeah. You know, and wait until you have something great. Exactly. And he's totally that. Die with a smile is a pretty big song. Yeah. Good job.

Thank you. So happy about that one. I mean, Bruno Mars and Lady Gaga. When they did best collab at the Grammys, you know, and you're like, oh, shit, it's, you know, what was it? It was like, Beyonce and Miley and it was just like all the relation, these were, I don't think there's ever been a more superstar. Yeah. Like, category. Yeah, duets.

Yeah. Yeah. Billy and XX. Yeah. Watch. Yeah. Charlie and Billy. I mean, it's just like crazy.

Yeah. What did it feel like watching Watching that win? Yeah I was I felt It felt like I won To be honest

Yeah I just always knew What that song I felt like I always knew What that song could be I just felt like it was special And How did it come to be?

Again, one of those days Where Bruno had this idea I think he had the the title already. And this one was a quicker to figure out a little bit. I feel like maybe a couple of weeks, maybe a month before we got it to a place where it's like, oh, this feels good. But then he shelved it for like a year.

And then one day, he was like, yo, I think I'm going to have Garga come by and I'm going to play her the song. And I was like, oh, that sounds dope. And then one thing led to another. She came like at 12 at midnight. and she loved the song and, you know, she wrote her verse right there. Like, they ended up finishing, we finished that song that night. And then, you know, except for a couple of extra things we had to do afterwards or whatever.

But, yeah, that's kind of how it came about. And I just was so happy because I was kind of on Bruno, like, man, you're sleeping on this song. But in hindsight, I think it made sense. I think what everything else we were doing, it was just kind of harder to figure out where that goes. What, you know, what we're, what he's trying to do next. But I'm just glad he found a way for it to still come out in the meantime. And for it to do what it did at the Grammys and for just to see the response

and, you know, just kind of the climb to number one that it, you know, like just seeing everything happen i'm just like yeah this is this is actually better than i thought it would be you know so i'm i'm just i'm just glad to be a part of it have you made it uh yeah i think so do you get starstruck um is there anyone who who do you get starstruck be i was right next to her at the gramees and i still scared and jay to say hi or say anything Mind you, I'm right. Did you?

No, I didn't. No. There's a picture of her and Bruno that they took. I think you can see me right behind her. And I'm just like, I'm not going to say anything. Yeah. I'm right. Right.

Mind you, I'm on one of her projects and I still am like scared to say, hey, I'm the guy who did this song. Yeah. Why? I don't know. It's Beyonce. What do you mean? No, wait.

Yeah, but you're, I mean. I just feel like I don't deserve to say anything to her. There's like there's not. There's not. aren't like, nobody's, there's not a bigger producer. Yeah. I don't know. I, I just have this weird thing when, when I either know somebody who might know me or

know about me or know of me, but I'm like, I'm not sure because I don't want to look stupid. So I'm not going to say an inspector. She knows exactly who I am or whatever. I usually wait for them to make the move. Yeah. I've always been like that too. Last Grammys, I had a situation like that where I think the Grammys was over and I passed Samara Joy. And we both looked at each other, didn't say hi.

Both wanted to, apparently, because then I think she'd DM me. And I was like, man, I saw you. I wanted to say hi, but I was too scared. And she said the same thing. So this year I was like, I'm going to make sure to say hi to her. and we did it and all that stuff. But it's just so funny. I don't know what that is.

And apparently Samara was feeling the same way. But, yeah, sometimes it's hard for me to break the ice. Samara has the greatest voice in the world. Yeah, she's amazing. It's fun to see from the writing camp grinds where you're like, how do you get noticed to talking about? about, you know, the people you see at the Grammys. Yeah.

Yeah. It's amazing. It's a different feeling. All right. Let's go to the next segment. I'm going to go and do like a five for five and name some people. And just tell me what comes out the top of your head. Okay.

All right. Let's go to Rodney Jerkins. Legend. Mentor at a time for sure. Someone I looked up to that I, you know, I wanted to be like, just, and hearing all the stuff that he's done at that time, I was like, I felt like I related to his music and the way he approaches it,

where he made it cool to be musical. And he still knew how to make hits out of that. Victoria Monna. One of my best friends in this business. That's the homie. 100%. We got to do our girl, Kenzie. Kenzie.

Oh, yeah. She's really great. I enjoyed doing the, well, we did a couple songs, but I totally enjoyed doing that one song that did make it on her project. It was super fun. She's super nice. I want to do some more with her for sure. Lucky day. It's my homie, brother from another mother right there.

He definitely saved a piece of my life and a work life. life for sure why do you say that because that was when you wanted to yeah exactly the outcomes lucky day yeah outcomes lucky day and we both got together and we're like fuck it man let's just do what we want and that first album was that it was just a labor of love so yeah Anderson pack freaking drummer extraordinary hilarious dude um Jack of all trades because he's he's he's he's he's he He does a lot. I can't even keep up with him.

I'll do one more. We got to do Bruno Mars. Of course, right? Genius. One of the best of our time. And a really great friend, man. Really great friend. He's such a good person.

I feel like a lot of people don't get to see that and see what he, how he cares about people, what he does with people. and just his appreciation for, like he really rides for his people that he really loves. And I'm just glad to, I guess, be one of them for sure. The two hardest things to do in this business is breaking an artist and reinvigorating an artist. You've managed to do that, do both of them.

And then even if there was a third thing, it'd be loyalty from an artist to a producer. Yeah. Yeah. Why is everyone, I mean, it's easy to see from here, but why is it that everyone is so loyal to you? Man, I think it's because I care. You know, it's more than just, oh, I'm just trying to get on the next big thing.

Like, I want to be, I just want to help you get where you want to be. and I produce, like, whoever the personality of the artist is. Like, I try to, how I see the artist. I try to translate that into music, you know. And it seems to work. So when we have me and Vicki do a record, she feels like that's her. When Bruno does that, does, you know, when we do something, it's him. Like, everything that we do is, like, it really defines who they are.

as a person. And I try to do that. And I think, because I don't talk as much, I think people feel like I see them and I get them because of how I translated in my music. Yeah, you say you don't talk a lot. And it's like, do you feel heard? I think so. Yeah. I think so. So you don't have, it's like it's amazing to not have to tell the world to be here. And then it does feel like now people know who Demile is. Yeah, it does. But I also still feel like there's still a lot that a lot of people that don't know or maybe a lot of things that I haven't even really gone all the way into getting into like scoring movies. I'm not even sure if I can do it, but I want to do it.

Yeah. You know, so, you know, I think there's still some proving of myself. proving to other people that I still have to do. But I do feel like I'm seen even through that. Man, listening to, you know, before I do interviews, I always make sure I go through and listen to, you know, records and records and records. It's just out of like just to be in the space.

Yeah. And, you know, when you hear, obviously, like, I knew the Victoria album, I knew the Lucky Day album. And I know the Silksonics have it. But these are separate parts of my life and you're just listening to it. You're like, oh, man, that's something. But when you hear all this body of work back to back, these records are so thoughtful and so not copy and paste in a way that, you know,

as we referred to some of the other producers who exist in this industry, like that that is their mark, is the copy and paste. Right, yeah. And this feels like it feels like a lot of music your dad is probably very proud of. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly that.

Yeah. That's what I shoot for, you know. And like, you know, like you say, I just feel like a lot of people are doing a lot of great things. But I do like seeing what I can do different, you know. And I think that's been working. And I hope it continues to work. And, you know, I'm still searching for better and more. Well, thank you for doing this.

I mean, it's just so cool. Again, to see co-writers from almost 15 years ago. Crazy. And, you know, neither of us had songs at that point that, you know, that we could point to. And it's just so. fun to root for you. Yeah, man. Appreciate that. For whatever it's worth, as your friend, co-writer, I'm so proud to know you and the fact that you are doing your music. The same way you did then, that song was so cool because it wasn't like everyone else's. Right. And it's

just, I just, I can't wait to see what happens next. So thank you. Thank you so much, man. Appreciate you guys. We hope you enjoyed this episode. It was produced by me and Joe London in a with Mega House Music Group. If you like this episode, go give us a rating at wherever you listen to your podcast and make sure to follow us at And The Writer is on all your socials. We'll see you next week.