And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan - Ep. 21: Bebe Rexha

Episode Date: June 19, 2017

From Brooklyn, New York, this songwriter is one of the busiest creators in the game. Known for her work as a hit writer, singer and artist, she is the perfect example of a triple threat. Her repertoire includes credits like Eminem and Rhianna's "The Monster," G-Eazy's "Me, Myself & I," and Martin Garix's "In The Name of Love." A familiar friend to the studio, the stage, and the radio charts, she is one name you will surely be hearing more in the future. And The Writer Is...Bebe Rexha! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey guys, this is, and the writer is. And I'm your host, Ross Golan. I've written with hundreds of writers and artists over the years, and my favorite part of each session is the first hour when we catch up about life and the industry, politics, composition, whatever. If you ask me, songwriters are some of the most worldly and intelligent people I've ever come across. So this is a journey of learning why people write songs, how people write songs. And most importantly, who the people are who write songs.

write the songs. Now I'm co-producing this with my friend Joe London, who is nominated for a Grammy earlier this year for Best Country Song. He makes us sound like angels. If you want to listen to the songs we discuss in this podcast, go to Spotify and look up our playlist and The Writer Is, or go to our website www.com. Oh, and if you enjoy this podcast, please rate us on iTunes or whatever your preferred podcast listening site is. We really appreciate that effort. Before we get to this interview, which is one of my favorites, there's something we should celebrate in the songwriting community. This week, the Grammys announced that they will include songwriters and album of the year. It started as an initiative that Evan Bogart and I submitted to the Grammys because we felt like it was so important right now for there to be one voice in the music industry.

And I'm happy that the Grammys, after 60 years, are going to acknowledge the contribution of songwriters in what is a collection of records and that they don't exist without songs. So thank you to the Grammys, songwriters, we should celebrate this as we continue the conversation with streaming rights. As we continue the conversation with copyright law, that this is evidence that people are acknowledging. the value of a song. So without further ado, one of the best songwriters in the music industry right now, here is And The Writer Is featuring Bibi Rexa. Welcome to And The Writer is. I'm your host, Ross Golan.

This week's artist has written monster singles, but her story is way more than that. She's featured when she's credited and she's featured when she's not, because this writer's voice is simply made for radio. This woman has become a staple in both the songwriting community and the artist community. By way of the East Coast, this writer always puts her family first. And the writer is one of the biggest stars in our industry, B.B. Rexo. Wow.

How about that? That made me kind of like myself a little bit more, like believe in myself a little bit more. I need to keep you around. Exactly. I'm just a hype man. That was amazing. Did you write that? I did. Wow. You're actually a good writer.

I know, right? It took that. Actually, I have hard time writing stuff like that. Really? Yeah. I don't like to think when I write, you know? Are you asked to do things like non-liur writing? Like when I do interviews and stuff like that, they'll send me like questions in the email, but I refuse to do that. I'm like, can you just call me? I don't know, because I feel like when I start, my problem is thinking too much, and I just want to speak and just say what I feel.

Is that how you are in your real life too? Yes That gets me in trouble a lot Really? Yes Especially in the music business Why? Because you just give your opinions on songs or something?

I think I just like I'm not, I grew up With a young mom And I just kind of, I think I just like just learn to be And What is a young mom? Like meaning like she didn't like

Really teach me things on like You know like wait before you see like speak. I don't know. Just like certain things. Like think before you speak like I kind of just do. And I think maybe that that could be a great thing. I like it. Or you could be misunderstood. Well, I mean, obviously you're you're a really instinctual kind of writer. You know, it's like you come in the room and you just start singing. So it's, it comes from a, you know, it translates in that way too. When I write sometimes, I don't mean to do this. But when I'll work with somebody new and they'll say something. I'm like, no. Like, but I don't, I'm not trying to be like rude or anything like that. But it's just. like it literally is like this wave that comes out of me and it doesn't instead of being like yeah that's cool but like you know like the like the LA version like instead of being like that's

really cool but what if we try it this way yeah I'm just like no no no no I feel like I just I can't control my like what I feel you know I don't filter it at all it's like very unfiltered like I am the most unfiltered person you will ever mean were you like that as a kid um yeah I guess so yeah I just did what I wanted to do. Yeah. Well, let's start kind of from the beginning because, you know, how does an Albanian girl from Brooklyn become like a pop star? I have no idea. Are your parents? Are your parents musicians? No. I mean, my dad played clarinet for a second. Like in front of you played clarinet?

Yeah, like for a second though and then like stopped. But like they're not musicians at all. Like my dad came from Albania in I'm guessing like 80 something Met my mom and then had me in 89 Like nobody was musical in my family whatsoever And I think With my culture and the way that my parents grew up It's like you turn 1819 and you get married off And you should have kids when you're like 23

Even in the in the US it's not even in the US Like all my cousins are married have five kids my cousin's wife is 27 and they have two girls twin girls and a boy and that's like normal like I'm considered like the outcast do you feel that way um now I feel like people are starting to accept me and they're like okay wow like they're proud of me but for a second they were like what is she doing because it's like the way that I feel like the way that I grew up was like you know all the way like if you could go total right and then like you know the music business is total left and I wanted to find a way to kind of incorporate both

and be in the middle because I love my culture and I love who I am but I still want it to do the music business. My dad would understand just stay home and be a housewife, you know what I mean? Like find a good guy. Did he actually say that? Yeah, are you kidding me? People used to come and ask for my hand in marriage like this is a real thing. Like they come

to show up to your house and that's... No, like this is some like medieval shit. Like I'm not even joking. Like my cousin is here. Like they would come to my house and ask for hand in marriage. And how old were you at that time? 16. And how old are they? 20 something, 25, 26. And everyone's like, oh, no, that's totally normal.

Totally normal. Like, my grandmother got married when she was 14. Like, normal. Like, it's in the culture. It's very normal. So that's why when you say you have a young mother. My mom had me, my mom had me when she was 17. Uh-huh. So you guys are like almost sisters. Yeah, we're sisters. So, like, I feel like she just tried to do the bet. You know, I kind of feel like my intro was kind of all over the place.

But I feel like she just was trying to do the best to be that what, what, she knew. Sure. So like I didn't learn a lot of like I just learned what she knew like you know what I mean she didn't know she was learning with me so I didn't learn a lot of things so I had to kind of like make a lot of mistakes. So like when I first came to LA for the first time and met with like a big publishing company and a big producer like and they asked me how are the sessions going with my writers and stuff like that I said honestly they're they're they're shit like a lot of the producers and writers are coming like they're I think they're I didn't know they were high at the time. But I was like, I don't know what I did wrong, but they were like, they were basically showing up like really high and like coke down and stuff. And I was like, honestly, the sessions have been really bad. Like, nobody ever told me like you don't say that stuff. Well, why is that a bad thing? I mean, that's actually like a really valuable piece of information. I got in trouble.

At the time, I got in trouble. They were just like deal with it. After the meeting, they were like, why would you say that to this person? Like, you don't tell them that. Like, you tell them it was great. And then you talk to me about like how you, like what you want to change. And I was like, okay. I was like so bummed out.

But in the end, that person was wrong, right? I mean, by you saying it. I'm so glad I did not do that deal. Wow, that's really intense. I mean, so you start playing, I mean, when are you writing music? How do you get to go from like, you know, your parents aren't doing, aren't musicians. And were you just, when did you start singing? Were you playing instruments?

Like, what's your? I started playing trumpet when I was like eight years old. I wanted to play the flute. so bad and I wanted to play piano but the flutes were all taken up and the pianos you had to have piano lessons but my parents at the time couldn't even buy me like

a CD at the time or like you know what I mean or like Entemins cakes you know I love the Entemans cakes like they couldn't afford it like literally couldn't afford it so like I couldn't they couldn't afford like $20 piano lessons or whatever at the time so I couldn't do the piano the flutes were taken and the only instrument that was available for like

free for rent was the trumpet wow so I was like like so mad because I was like this is not cool like I don't want to play the trumpet you know like eight years old you're a girl you want to like you know be pretty and like play the flu or some shit so I play the trumpet how long did you play like eight years can you still play I can play like like a scale not like a not like if you put it in any songs you know it's funny me myself and I the ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba da pa it's actually a trumpet part it was originally a trumpet part So you must use some of that.

I mean, especially because it's a really melodic instrument. You're not like in the background. Yeah, like to me now, now I'm like, wow. Like everything is so funny because when you're like, when you like go through things in life, you're like, everything's so dramatic. Everything is so do or die.

And then now I'm like, yo, like me playing trumpet, the trumpet is always kind of playing the lead in the band, especially in the jazz band. It's all melody. So that, at the age of eight, I'm playing lead I'm playing melodies You can't play like

You're not you know If I was playing the piano It would be chords and this But you know From the age of eight All the way up until high school My ear was being trained Through different types of music

Jazz You know the marching band stuff Like it was just like my ear Was starting to get trained at that age When did you know you could sing? I remember I was in third grade And the Star Spangled Banner Would play every day

Or God bless America or something like that in school every morning. Right. And one day the, I mean, I love singing since I was four. I would sing to all the Disney Channel stuff. But like, yeah, like I wanted to be, you know, or like I wanted to be a princess.

But, um, what happened one day? Oh yeah, the Star Springle, the announcement system or whatever broke. Like, so I was like, all right. Oh, say, can you sing? Like, I was like really belting it. Yeah.

And I was like nervous because I would sing it literally. I was so annoying. I would sing it every day full volume. like come on you loved it like I loved it you liked performing it wasn't just singing

I just loved it imagine every morning 8 in the morning how annoying was I as a little girl like I just I felt so bad for my brother too because I was always like the I just wasn't even just attention

I just loved music like I just want like watch me like feel so good like you don't know like when you're young and when you start doing music you don't know about all the other stuff

you just know it feels good and it makes you feel some type of way and that's the thing with music is it made me feel free because when I was young and I had all these anxieties, which I had all my life, that was the one thing that would make me feel good. So I was in school one day,

and then the announcement system broke, and I fucking sang the Star-Spangled banner, like, super loud. And then the teacher at the end of the year gave me a piece of paper, like those cheap-ass, like, you know, printer papers, like student of the year. She gave me, like, singer of the, whatever, talented, most talented of the year. And I thought it was, like, the most... That's the biggest accolade you'll ever get.

Like, I was like, whoa! I remember going home that day Like so happy You still have it? Yeah Probably somewhere in the basement Yeah So you start singing

And then you Why do you start writing? Like what Like because there's a whole different process To be like yo I'm gonna start writing songs Because you're You know If you're a singer in New York

You could have done musical theater I did You did? I did do musical theater Do you actually do it professionally? No You just did it in school I did it at the Staten Island

Snug Harbor in school No, but I did do it I did it for a second And I did all the choirs in high school Um So Somehow I met Sam Cox Well through my mom

My mom worked at like a A department store And um I don't know actually Yeah Samanthoff from BMI But no but you know what I don't know

How it happened But I just Oh I think the first song I ever wrote Was in high school And there was a contest Naris National Recording Academy had a contest called Grammy Career Day

and they would pick the best teen songwriter like teen song and you would meet like the superstar of the day like of the, so whatever. So you enter all, so the 700 entries. I wrote the song called Let Me Know. It was me and a girl group. It was the first time ever recorded my voice.

I remember myself on the mic. I was like, wow, I suck. You remember the first time hearing yourself? You're like, wow, I don't sound good. Like, you know? Because you don't know anything about like tuning and reverb and delay. Like you hear the raw vocal.

So we do this song, we submit it to the... First song you ever wrote? No, no, not ever wrote. First one I ever recorded in the studio. Like, you know, experience. Yeah, yeah. We submit this song and get selected. Crazy.

I meet Chris Brown. That's the first... That's when I met Chris Brown right before he, uh... Before he even made it big or anything like that. And that's when he, like, run it or something. I don't know. Yeah, we got selected and I was like, okay, cool. But I don't...

I don't see, I don't remember... There was a lot of... There was a lot. So I don't remember where it like started because there was a lot of studios with like pea stained mattresses and blood stains. And we use mattresses as as. Where are you right now? Are you in Brooklyn? Is this like, are you talking about before you ever had?

Honestly, I don't know. Like I'm trying to think. I'm trying to give you a. Yeah. So you go from this competition. You win this competition. And you meet Chris Brown. So weird.

This is like he was like he was doing like back flips and shit. Like nobody knew who he was. they're like Chris Brown and I was like who is this? Right. And so then you end up in you go from there to like it's not,

it can't be that much longer after that that you end up actually getting your first deal with Pete once right? No, I was like 15 there. Oh you were 15 when you got? Yeah, so I was 15, 16 there when I won that contest and then I started going, I started using Micepice at the time and putting songs out.

Oh. And that's when I started meeting a lot of producers and I met this French producer and that's when we I used to go to Jersey City and like I was literally the ultimate hustler. Like didn't go to prom, didn't do on any of that shit. I didn't care about any of that stuff from the beginning. I didn't care about it. I was never a person of like, like I didn't care about being popular. I didn't care about any of that shit.

I didn't care about having the dopest stuff. I just cared about music. It was literally an obsession. And I think it was also because all my life I had some type of form. I was very anxious and I was a very depressed as a kid. didn't know. As like like clinically. Yeah.

Like for real. Like yeah. But that's, but I take it because that's what helps me write great music. And I think we all kind of have those. It comes. I'm proud of, we know myself. And so I think, you know, from them there, I met with this, this French guy. And I used to go to Jersey City all the time.

And I would beg my dad or beg my mom. And they'd be like, no. And then take a train or bus or whatever. Take the, take the ferry. to the city You do it without even when they didn't want you to do it. Yeah, take the ferry, take the, take the, take the train, stand on train 30 minutes, then take the ferry for another 30 minutes, then walk to the train, then go to,

then go to wherever, uh, take a train to Jersey, take a bus to Jersey City, then walk to his fucking house. It would take three hours. Then go to the studio. He would have a pie stained mattress that went against the wall with some cheap ass mic, and we would record like that. And that was one thing. Then there would be times where I would go to Bridgeport, Connecticut.

Bridgeport Connecticut's three hours now I was a fucking hustler Like I didn't care I would meet producers And that's why like sometimes people when they meet me I feel misunderstood because they're like Wow you're so hard or like whatever But I'm like you have to You have to kind of build yourself that way

Because you don't want to be taking advantage of You know And a lot of like these bigger producers And stuff like that They think that I'm like I go and thinking that I know that I'm the shit Or I'm like a bitch But it's just like

It was my culture of me being like I had to be strong for myself to want to do this career and really be strong because I was told no, no, no. And then it's also the New York City mentality and really hustling. Did you feel like people were taking advantage of you because you were a young female? Of course. Are you kidding me all the time? I had a producer tell me don't, don't tell your mom, take the train. Do not tell her you're coming here. What?

So you must have been freaked out. Did you still go? Hell no. Are you crazy? I wasn't dumb. Oh my God. So like, so like from that, I was trying to, I was trying to, so from that, I was doing that stuff. And then I met another producer in, in New York City. And we started writing songs together. And that's when I started producing. And I started, I saved up money.

I got a job as a perfume girl. I saved up money. I bought two K. KRK speakers. I bought fucking pro tools. I got a cheap ass road microphone. I bought Autotune for the first time because it was like the hottest thing at the time. It was like $300.

Like, shit, $300 for AutoTune? What the fuck? And then I was like, yeah. Like literally, and my auto tune was so, like, you know how it's latent? Yeah. Like, I learned to sing to match that latent. Yeah. So now when I sing in the studio, I'm always ahead of the beat.

Like a second ahead of the beat. It's some weird shit. I'm always seeing behind it. My logic at the time when I was broke as shit, like it would always record me. It would always record off. So I learned to sing behind the beat so much. That's what I'm crazy. Because I couldn't figure out the latency.

So instead you just learn out. sing it wrong. Yes, I met a producer. There was so many people. And then I met a producer. Then we started working together. And then I fell into this K-pop world. I don't know how the fuck that happened.

But I end up having like a big ass K-pop song that was like, would be massive. Wow. And they. Who was it with? Shiny. Shiny. There's a song called Lucifer.

Okay. And and then I had. How old were you at this point? 17. Were you still in school? Yeah. I was just, no, I just went into. college at this point. Okay.

17 going to college, right? That's crazy. No, actually, yeah, yeah, yeah, 18, 18, sorry. That's so young to be getting, you know, cuts already. I didn't know, though. I didn't know, though. And at the time, I had a lawyer, he didn't really believe in me and, like, think that, like, he didn't think these songs would be big. And they ended up being massive. And I had three of them,

because there's a big, like, record label out there. I didn't know. So they called me one day. They're like, we'll give you five grand. I was like five grand Then your parents are like wow You just came home with five grand No and then my mom was like mom they want to give me five grand for this one song She's like no ask for 15

I was like wow 15 So I was like I called it was like yo I was like I need 15 I'll you know pick up my phone I need 15K They wired that shit in an hour later Wow now I found out when I was about Like you know fast forward when I was getting my publishing deal They're like wow you got fucked over

You should have made way like like you could put a down payment on the house i was like wow i'm an idiot i didn't know i didn't know i didn't know i didn't have the one thing with me also is that i did it so like you know i i i had to learn you know and i think that's the beauty of life you know i don't i never regret anything you know so i had to learn the hard way you know but i think that's what that's what makes me who i am and that's what makes my story you know how does your song get heard by people in korea or how does you like i mean it's so i was working with this producer who had to connect with this guy in korea and he was looking for songs. So they didn't tell me that they were, they also kind of shopped behind my back.

So I didn't really know. Like I was going in the studio working on my project. You know, I always loved music. So I was writing on my own artistry. So I didn't know. Right. When you're putting up stuff on MySpace and whatever, is it, is there starting to be, are you getting hit up by labels and stuff? Are you playing shows at this point? And are, you know, was it just more? I was just more like writing songs and like putting songs up and just building like a small fan base. Was it working? No. And like 4,000 fans.

Do you still have that MySpace page yet? Yeah. I took all those songs down, so don't even try. Oh, man. And I took all the pictures down. Me with a good guitar in my hand. At the time, I didn't even play guitar. Were you doing?

Was it? Oh, you didn't play guitar at that time. Did you, were you, what kind of music was it at that time? Was it the same kind of music you're releasing now? When I first started writing, when I first started writing in high school, I was a, okay, so I think about this, I played trumpet. so I was into all that stuff then when I went into high school I would join the choir

and we started singing some like then I joined a magical choir which is all acapella which is weird then um then I started I found out that I could sing opera which that was fucking weird I like the craziest high range like like some I don't know what she was telling me

but I could hit one of the highest notes or something so I started joining all these competitions and winning like literally winning like my dad was like okay you could be an opera singer that's acceptable within the culture. You could have like a family and that's like a beautiful thing. We can watch your show. Like I respect that.

And I could listen to this tape and sing opera back perfectly. Like I could sing obviously opera then I learned is like, you know, you takes years and you got to be in your 30s and respect it. And it's a political thing. But but I could play Renee Fleming back and sing exactly how she was singing. And I was like, how do I, how? You just can emulate. Exactly. It's really, it's strange that you can, that you emulate.

I guess it's not But if you emulate that well Because so much of your career Has been other people emulating How you sing naturally So you know what I mean Like you found your own voice somewhere in there Because you have a unique tone

So with the trumpet And what's funny now When everybody goes Woo Or you know when you go Woo! Or Where is that coming from? That's coming from

Oh my bongue No caro it's from that that's where it's coming from you know what I mean you're studying that but like that made sense to me that all made sense to me

because I'm like wow the trumpet plus the opera thing I was obsessed with opera for a second like obsessed yeah like was about to go to Italy to do a big competition and then it hit me

and I'm like no but I don't want to do this like I want to do pop music I want to be like I want to feel the way that I want to make people feel the way that I felt when I first heard Backsheep boys, you know what I mean? Or like when I first heard Jeannie in a bottle by Christine Aguilera, like there's something so magical in that and something that made me feel so free about those songs.

And then from there, I fell into some weird one year when I was just listening to straight up Stevie Wonder and tons of Neo Soul. I don't know what. Like I don't know what, how. So like I remember writing songs like literally the first, like I think like the first song that I wrote was on the like this. Boy, you know I love you. You know I really do. Every time I see your face, I'm more in love with you. Like, what the hell?

Like, I wasn't even in love. And, like, why was I singing like that? I was so confused. It's actually really good still. Yeah. Have you used that since? No. You should put it in something.

My computer, I literally had my Karen hit up my manager and be like, I'll give you, like, a million for her old computer. Like, my old computer is so much shit in it. But it's, like, a mess. Like, there's so much stuff in there. Just going through it. Oh, I'm sure. But then I think, I think all that. I think the question that you asked me

I'm sorry I'm a little early for me I'm all over I love this I'm like all over the place you know But you make you know you make a decision somewhere along the way where you're like I'm gonna you know I'm gonna choose to Instead of doing

You know Instead of doing the opera stuff I want to be a pop star And you make this conscious decision So then I make this decision right And I'm doing all this my space stuff I'm writing I'm hustling I'm doing all this stuff

And then along the way I meet After the BMI after the Narris thing, I meet Sam Cox at BMI. Yeah. Because for a second, I love her. I love her to death. And I was writing, but she put it in perspective. She's like, let me play you this girl Gaga.

I was like, Gaga. What the fuck is that name? Gaga? Right. And she played, no, no, no. Like literally, you should go look at her website and something like that. She writes all her own songs. And she played, Just Dance Gonna Be Okay.

I remember hearing it for the first time. Nothing. Literally at the time, the song, I don't know, on YouTube or whatever, had like 2000 plays like nothing and i was like hmm i kind of like like this i was like okay and then it like blew up and at that time sam was telling me in that meeting i remember the meeting exactly i remember telling me her telling me about gaga and i remember telling me like how i was probably right after that whole thing 18 17 something like yeah or met her younger probably she was like you need to really focus on your writing because one day you're gonna thank me and one day that's

where all your power is going to lie, even in your artistry, if you want to truly be an artist. And at the time, I was so impatient. I was like, no, but I want to, I just want to do it. Help me get a record deal. Like, because I thought that was the answer, like a record deal. Like, when you get the record deal, you're going to fucking, that's it. It's over for you.

You know what I mean? You sign the deal with some, like, balloons, champagne popping, you know, champagne rainfall. Like, oh, hell no, I was completely wrong about that one. It's weird. Even the artist when they get that record deal and you're like, no, they still need a hit song. And if you're not capable of writing it, you're just like, you're still looking for a jackpot.

It's scary to me. That's scary. So I forever, forever, forever, forever, forever, forever, forever. I'm thankful for that lady. Sam Cox has been like the most, like, loving, like, she's my bitch for life. Like, yeah. Like, that's a real fucking, she's a real fucking bad bitch. Yeah.

And I respect her. She works for BMI. Sometimes I'm like, I remember, you know, I, I, there's been many times in the past where I begged her to manage me. because there's something about her that's so that's so calming and so amazing. I'm like, yo Sam, I'm like, you gotta be a mat. You got to do. She's like, no, no, no, I love BMI. I don't want to get her. She's like, I love this job. I love what I do.

And she to me, no, like, to me, like also like she's you know, like even with the monster, when we did the monster, she was also part of that by. It was a whole group of people and it kind of was like a magical thing that happened when we set the session up, but she was also involved with that. So like she's always kind of like in the know of what's new and what's fresh. and I remember I remember telling her telling me about Emily Warren you know what I mean

So like she's always like kind of like in the in the in the in the in the in the in the in the in the and I and I'm forever grateful for her like she Like at times I would get frustrated with her because I just wanted her to like kind of help me and like make things happen for me But then you had to do it yourself you got to do it yourself and now I see him like wow like I'm like I'm like she made me go to these national writing sessions these country writing sessions or these pop writing sessions that BMI would offer for like the time like creative workshops and I was like the youngest person in the room with like all these old 40 year old men like writing these country songs and I sucked like my song suck like I didn't know how to fucking write a song did you know that they sucked at the time yeah I knew my song sucked that's why I never actually went to go like I remember when I first met my first lawyer he's like do you want to like go like what's the what's the vibe I'm like I don't honestly I'm not ready I was like I'm not ready I never felt like I was ready

my music was never ready it was never good enough like like like as an artist like straight up Do you still feel that way? Sometimes, you know, but like, like sometimes now I'm starting to feel a little bit better about some songs, but I never feel like anything is ever good enough. Yeah. It's weird. I remember people asking for songs for your band that people are like, do you have any ideas for the black cards?

It's Pete Wentz and this girl. I knew it was not going to go anywhere. But the fact is they didn't realize they were sitting on like this gold mine of a songwriter. They wouldn't let me write. Why? How did they not know that they were sitting there? sitting on you as a songwriter. They started having me right.

Well, I went there to go songwry, but I think a lot of these songs, I think what happened was the project was already, because the project already started, so they had this concept of what they wanted the project to be. Right. And I don't think anything was really clicking. I don't think anybody really fuck with it.

I just think the magic between, I think Pete can do it himself too, but I think the magic fall boy is Patrick. It made sense to me when I met Patrick in the studio and when seeing Pete's lyrics, there's something magical between Patrick Stump and Pete's, Pete Wentz, magical. Like, it just made sense to me when I saw them work in the studio.

And I honestly, listen, that project I knew was not going to go anywhere. I just knew it. Right. I didn't feel right. And I tried to speak up, but I was new. And I didn't have any hits. I didn't have anything. And like, here's Sam Hollander and Pete Wentz and Crush.

And they've had, you know, they had, at the time they had, they had billionaire with Travis McCoy and all this, whatever, you know, those. boys not boys like girls um panic at the disco and all these things these all big big kind of like artists so like who was i to like say anything you know so when you finally go away from that i mean there's already people who at that point start to know who you are because word travels quick a little bit right i mean like when i left the group yeah like does it like how soon after that did you get a did you sign as a solo artist not soon at all what you mean i was signed there 19 I signed him when I was 19

We traveled the world for like two years I was 21 when I When they were like this is not working sorry You traveled the world though is the blackbirds? Yeah, I went to Dubai went to London We went everywhere We were yeah See that's why I'm grateful for Pete too

Because like I think it was just a misunderstanding And I think that I was too scared to like speak up Or say things and I was very fearful And I think that Or like I wish they would have like listened to me a little bit more But I still can't blame them Because they believed in me And the simplest things like learning

how to use in ears, learning how to talk on stage, learning how to use the stage, learning how to do press, learning how to, the stuff, and that was like the ultimate boot camp for an artist. When people, when I was going to do my next record deal and they're like, well, you got to do that. I was like, you have no idea. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I've done this shit. Like, I know. Like, I was there with Pete.

Like, I learned. Did you guys have a fan base in these countries or was it more like opening situations? I mean, who are you performing in front of? We had like shows. Did they ever go to radio with anything with your voice? on it? No. So it didn't get that far. Almost did. No, yeah. They tried to go

with something. It wasn't right. So when did you leave it then? I didn't leave it. They don't drop me. Wow. Well, he didn't even drop me. My managers called me one day and they're like, he doesn't want you to be in the band anymore. I was like heartbroken. I like walk like, because their manager office was on like 12th Street or something. I walked like up to 125th Street crying.

Like I was. I thought it was my shot. I thought it was my shot and I was like, wow, this shit is over. And I was like so upset. Like so upset. Because even in this whole process, I told my dad, I was like, I promise you're going to see like this is going to, because my dad was so against it. He's like, there's no way you're going to do by on yourself.

And I couldn't bring my mom. I was 19, so I wasn't like underage underage and that. There was no way I could bring my parents. It was like, I had to go and be a big girl and I hated flying and I never try. You know, imagine being like with a very protective family. And, you know, I was a renegate and I would do things like. you know but like what is like taking the bus compared to like flying to Dubai you know I mean like that's like a different whole different story but I was like oh my god that day was

the worst day of my life I was like it's over it's so funny how did you get back up then I don't I got really depressed I got really fucked up for a year I was really like not good like what do you mean fucked up like drugs wise or like depressed like wanted to like literally kill myself yeah but like that's uh you know that was what kind of That is what led to like the monster because I would go on the internet every day and I would look up quotes. Oh my God. My mom hears that she's going to kill me. She hates when I talk about this shit.

But it's real though, you know? And I think that like I'm in such an amazing place right now and I think that's what makes my story interesting, you know? But it's like all these things like you need to learn in life and you need to go through this shit. Like you need to, you know what I mean? I don't regret anything. I think everything is a blessing. And at that time, at that time I was walking, I was walking crying for hours. Hours, hours, hours, hours.

I just couldn't understand why he wouldn't just call me and be like, yo, because I was 19, I was 20, I was 21, whatever. I just couldn't understand why nobody would just, he wouldn't just call me after touring for somebody for two years and be like, yo, this is not working out. We want to drop you and we want to do like, we're going to try electronic, like, do like a dubstep group, you know? Wow. But that's what led to the monster.

I was fucked up. My dad had to come home every day and like make me walk because I didn't want to, like, leave the house. I was so sad. And you hear you are still like internally wanting to pursue something that your dad is. Yeah. Then my dad after like a while when I started getting a little bit better he's like uh-uh.

You either going to you're going to college or you're getting getting a job. Because I refuse to watch my daughter sit in the basement every day. Depressed like just so depressed. Yeah. So um. So then you're on the internet. How does that lead to the monster?

I would look up quotes all day every day. Like all day, every day, like positive quotes. So, because my mom is very, my mom is a very positive person. She's a very strong woman. So she believes in like healing yourself and like, and like, you know, you are the, you are, you know, what you think is what you bring. So I would Google quotes.

And one quote that always stuck with me is, and everybody knows it, but in the end, everything's going to be okay. And if it's not okay, then it's not the end. That was one of my favorite quotes. and then another quote because I couldn't understand the way that I was feeling was we stopped looking for monsters

under the bed when we realize they're inside of us Wow So I was like shit Dang like I don't really like the person that I am right now

Like I don't like the way that I'm feeling I can't understand it You know I couldn't understand it And I was like So I was like Why am I running away from these feelings like I'm on I'm I'm I'm I'm okay to feel sad and you're okay to feel anxious you're okay like

you're in a you're in a business we're in a business that's that's that's it's so beautiful but it's hard it's hard you know do you know how many people like want to try to do this shit yeah you know people I see every day sending me fucking MP3s on tour seeing to me at meet and greets I'm like it breaks my heart because I'm like there's so many talented people like there's so many talented kids or older people that this is like a blessing like for us to be doing this is a blessing we forget totally we get caught up and it's okay it's a fucked up business but it's okay to have moments every day is not going to be great so at the time i was like trying to understand i was like i hate myself like this like i don't want to feel this way and i was

like angry at myself and then i was like wow i'm like i instead of like trying to help myself i'm like i'm like victimizing myself you know and i went into the studio and the session was set up And it was John Belion alias frequency. And I said, there's a quote that I love about monsters. And it fucking, that was, it's, the song was originally before Eminem did. Obviously, he was talking about his monsters. Um, in the darkest of my times, a little light began to shine. Woke up and I realized that imperfection is divine.

And this creepy heart of mine, it keeps tiptoeing on the line. But I know it'll be just fine. Because I'm friends with the monsters that are under my bed. I get along with the voices inside of my head. You're trying to save me. Stop holding your breath. And you think I'm crazy. Well, that's nothing new.

And it's a song about this is who I am and I'm pretty fucked up, but I'm okay with myself. And it's about like looking at yourself in the mirror and being like, you know what? I'm pretty fucked up. You're fucked up too. Don't try to save me because I'm okay with me being the way that I am. When you finish that, there's probably a reason why people, you know, spread that song. because it's honest and it comes from a real place. And it gets all the way from you struggling in a basement to Eminem.

Isn't that crazy? I mean, like, what a transition from that moment to go from that to, I mean, a literal number one worldwide song. I mean, how fast does that happen? And, you know, where you go from like, I'm done writing this song. this is this is a record did you think it was for you at the time yeah yeah i was gonna go i was about to go do i was about to shop some records i haven't shop i haven't played that song when i was going for a record deal sure did people love it at the time they let they didn't die over it they were in like oh my god number one number one like no like from what you think that a record

executive would do record execs yeah just saying we're all human we don't know what the but we don't know what the fuck is going to work all the time let's be honest all we know is what we feel totally so i had a manager at the time and he was trying to get me to go into like this more avrilavine type world and i and i wanted to go into the more of the monster world which was more like to him was a more alternative which is hilarious and it being a big number one pop song yeah so like when i went to the meetings he was like don't play those and then i i was like no you know what i want to play this record because i really fuck with this record he's like it's too alternative you're going to throw them off and i played it for one a and r and he's like actually like this direction more he's like you should

go in this direction more, but he didn't say, oh my God, this is the number one. Hey, don't leave the room. This is your first single. Like, what you think, like, if you really would have played that shit out, I understand Eminem made it great. But if you hear the original, it's also very dope. But you think... Did you ever want to release the original?

It was, like, released on, like, a blog or something like that, but I would never release it, like, I wasn't allowed to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When Rihanna cuts it and your voice is still all over it, how soon from when it was released or recorded. Like how soon was it that you realize? My mom called me. You're hearing your voice on the radio.

My mom called me. My mom was like, what? That is not what the, well, that's not then. Like some of the words, you know how you comp, some of the words? It sounds like you. Well, yeah, because, you know, you know how it goes. Like sometimes, like, you know, you get demilitis and you want to stick to some of the things. But I knew the second they asked me for my vocals, my background vocals, because I was, like, I was crying.

because I was like 22 whatever I was like no I don't whatever I'm throwing numbers but I was like no no no please don't I was begging my manager at the time please don't give my background vocals because I know that whoever's singing this is not going to be able to do no so people are like wow you sound like Rihanna I was like was it was it awesome though when you heard your voice on the radio or was it was sad I was really sad at the time how do you feel now when you hear it I think it's I don't I mean I think that song changed like that song changed my life and I'm forever grateful for it because like People looked at me different and started respecting me differently. And it helped me kind of working on my artistry. It helped me do whatever I want. Like I never had to be like a product. Like I was never told what to do. I was allowed to make my own mistakes and change my sound and whatever. We just did an interview with a Hall of Fame writer who was talking about who's like,

yeah, the only thing that matters is like, you know, the title. Because it needs to sort of tell the story. whatever it is. And your next, right after Monster, you start releasing songs as an artist with Warner. And you release, like, I can't stop drinking about you. And I'll show you crazy, which are both those kinds of titles where you're like, okay, I'm in the story before I, I don't have to listen to the lyrics in the first verse, wondering, you know, what this is about.

Are you instinctually doing that? Or is someone actually saying to you like, hey, you're a song. You know, I mean, as a writer, you're just writing these songs and coming up with these titles, right? Oh, yeah. Or is someone, is there, are there people that you're co-writing with that are, like, I didn't write those. I wrote the song myself. So crazy.

I wrote, I can't stop drinking about you myself. And then I brought it to the monsters and strangers. And then I wrote, I'm going to show you crazy myself. and then I brought it to Lauren Christy because we needed a doper hook. So she helped me with a love. Is that the first time you meet Lauren Christie? Yeah. Oh, that's so cool.

And John Levine, it was awesome. I like also another person in my life that I feel it's like amazing. Lauren Christie. Like, I love that lady. Yeah. She's real. Like, she's amazing. You release those songs and it's the first time you start getting some radio play with your voice

as where you're getting kind of credit for it and it's there isn't. But I was told that I was too hard. What do you mean? Like I was too dark. As a lyricist? Like just looking, look wise, artist wise, too hard. Who was telling you this? Labels and just people.

You were starting to build your fan base anyway, so you're, right? Your fan base had to love it. I was still kind of dark and like, you know, I wasn't going to be like, hey, I'm happy now. Like, I think it takes time, you know? Right. Yeah. Nobody told me you got to write a song with the title in it. I just wrote it.

based off of true stuff. I can't stop drinking about you. It was about a guy that I really liked. And then I go out one night. He doesn't want me because he wants to go back to his ex. And then he calls me. And I'm like, yo, let me the fuck alone, bro. Like, I don't even drink and I'm drinking about you right now.

Like, what the hell? And I was like, shit, that's a great song. And then I'm going to show you crazy. It was when I went to the therapist for the first time. And they were trying to throw me on all these meds for, like, depression. But I'm like, I just need somebody to, listen to me. I'm not taking that shit. Like, no. Like, I'm not doing that. That's awesome. When you go in and you do Hey Mama, which is the same time, right? You're doing all these at the

same time. Is it? I don't even know. But give or take. Yeah, like kind of like in this is like three years. Yeah. Yeah. You do Hey Mama. You walk in and then here again. Your voice is all over it. I mean, not even like a little bit. This time. Well, I was told, I was told like yet again. The problem that I think I did in my career, the only thing is that I didn't, I wasn't smart enough to like have the right representation and the right team members around me. Team members are so important. Like I love my lawyer right now. Kenny Masales, like I fuck with that motherfucker. Like he is the original goat.

Like, like he is a fucking gangster. Like fights for me, believes in me. Like, like, like, I would die for the dude. You know what I mean? So it's like, so it's like, I wish I had him then. And then, but then he was around, but then he fought for it after. Which is why they added it later. Which is why they added it.

But like, yeah, like, I didn't fucking know. Like, we wrote this song in like 10 minutes, 20 minutes, me and Sean Douglas. Like, not the song with Hook. I didn't know. Like, I didn't think, they call me. I was at, I remember it clearly. I was at Pepsi or something like that doing like a little showcase for them. And, you know, and they were like, yeah, you're just on the pre-chorus, like a little part.

I was like, okay, cool, cleared. Like, I didn't know to like, they wouldn't send me the vocal. I didn't know. Were you hanging out with Geta during any of the process? No, and then they didn't even, and then I, I, I, listen, I forgive, I text to Afrojack the other day. You know what I mean? I love Gett. I saw him at the Billboard Awards.

I have no, you know what I mean? I see Nikki. I work with Nikki again. I can't live my life being angry at people. I forgive people and it is what it is. Like we all fucking make mistakes and we all want to just be successful and we want to do the best. And sometimes in this business, you get kind of caught up and you kind of throw, you know, you, you focus on yourself. It's human nature.

Now, like, whatever. The one thing that I feel like I learned in the business is that it did kind of like, it broke me a little bit. Like, it, it, like, I was always this kind of like happy girl who was like, yeah, I feel like crying right now. You can. Like, one of the things that's so impressive is that it's so hard. It's so hard to write a song that gets to radio. And it's so hard to write one that people listen to. And then, and it was so when the second one happened.

They come, you know. And you guys. to do interviews especially as an artist because you're in the music business and you don't want to put nobody down because that's not how I grew up you know like I don't want like you can't even at a certain point say shit about anybody or put people down because then that makes you look like a shitty person but it killed me because I feel like I work so hard but I never had like I should have fucking I don't know like I didn't know I had to learn like I didn't know I just feel like it it you know I didn't know at the time they're like we can't put your name on it because there's too many names on it for radio

i believe that you're telling me you can't put my name on it like and they shot the video and they were all like in the desert and i'm like hitting up afro jack and getta and they're like oh we're shooting something but it's like super private and then you see the video like that sucks you know i just think the thing that that the reason why i'm upset is like i just feel like there's been a lot of situations that were like you know i was like kind of like this happy go lucky girl and like kind of like really excited about music and then i feel like kind of broke me a little bit you know yeah but like whatever it is what it is like that that's what that's what it makes me who i am you know so sometimes when i'm misunderstood and i work with these big producers that are people and they just want to judge you

right off the back that it's like you don't know my story you don't know where i come from and i refuse to be like this bitter person you know but like does it make me emotional and do i feel hurt sometimes and i got to lie in interviews and say i'm best friends with everybody yeah because i'm not going to go bashing people around i don't feel like that's the way you got to forgive but that killed me that situation it sucked you know and that's why that's why i love that's why i love that's why there's some people in my group that i will forever love sam cox lauren christie my lawyer my lawyer went in there and fucking got me that credit it might have been too late he might have got me the credit after it hit Billboard number six or whatever the fuck it was.

I never paid attention. I don't know what the hell. But I knew it was like a good, it did well. But like he got it for me and you know what? It kind of let me sleep at night a little bit better. I mean also in the industry, everyone knows, you know, it wasn't like. Yeah, but like. I want you to, you know, just so you know, like writers, though, who are obsessed with writers,

were like super impressed and super proud of you. I mean, you know, they don't, the, the, the, the, behind the scenes everyone knows who makes hits they just do and it doesn't happen by accident twice at that point you know and so there was like i think there were more people rooting for you in that process that no one's look davidgetta and nicky have you know and at the time afrojack had had had a lot of hits so there this isn't to them it's it's part of their discography it's fine yeah but for you it's like, I think people viewed that as like, I always thought that I was almost like a coming out party of like, oh, sick, here's her voice for real and not like hidden.

Yeah. So like in the end, it obviously, look, I mean. It's kind of funny how it happened because it's like you have the monster and like, yeah, straight up, my voice is all over it. But like, and then you have, hey mama. And then I finally get credit on it. But it kind of like kind of late. And then it's like, here comes to me myself and I, slowly, you know. I mean, that must have been.

you know third time's a charm kind of thing you end up with me myself and i and it's like everything's changed like yeah that that definitely changed a lot of stuff i mean i wish i could have kept that song for myself but at the time i think it was meant to be the way it was i played it for some people they didn't hear it so i remember hearing it here because we're at west which version my version or the your version yeah i love my version but it was like it was like more like throat like it was more dancy but I couldn't find I sent it to fucking everybody I was like I want to keep this song for myself because I love my verses too they were great I sent it to at that point also like I sent it to get it I sent it also to afrojack but afrojack wanted it for himself and I was like no and I was like

just I was trying to send it to anybody just to kind of recreate it but nobody could like recreate it that I wanted it because I kind of wanted to you know the way that it kind of came out I didn't know and at the time I was kind of doing it on my own I was like trying to like you know A and R this record myself because I kind of knew how like I wanted it to sound But like I couldn't find the right producer To do it the way that I wanted you know Because I wanted some like Sam Smith

Like a girl version of Sam Smith Like Sam Smith but like with a little bit of swag And like a little kind of how G had it But with my singing verses you know what I mean But I think that Mike The producer he killed it You know what I mean like I think it was meant To come out the way that it did you know

I mean it's there's so much of you Like Even in those other songs it really isn't the same kind of real estate. Like you have, you know, a pre-chorus, a chorus, a post on like, it's like there's so much you in that record. That's like, you know, he's got a first and second verse. And it's like, it really is the first time where I think people get to know you as an artist in a way. I mean, not that you hadn't released songs, but I feel like that's opened the door for all the songs.

Of course. Are you kidding me? Yeah, a thousand percent. To be able to do the I-Hard Awards and to start building fans and people to start noticing you. And that's, that was like dope to me. You know what I mean? That was like the coolest thing ever. Like ever.

It must have been a giant, you know, obviously there's a lot of weight off your shoulders to be like. Not yet. Why? Because I feel like you want to do it like you want it like you want it like kind of, you want it to be like a, you know, a BB song. You know what I mean? Everybody says that's a BB song, you know? But I'm like, I don't know. It's just some weird thing.

that I have. So is it like a, is that a personal thing? Or is that like, you know, like, you know, like, I just feel like, you know, like I feel like I, like to me, it's like me and G. But I feel like I, I handed it to G. Like it wasn't like a pure, like it wasn't like a pure, like it wasn't B.B. Rexa right off of Warner Brothers. Like, BB Rexa. I could put my and say, this is my thing. It's on my album.

Like this is my song. But it is. It is my song. Like, you know what I mean? But, but, but to me, because I gave it away in a sense. even though I was on it, it still wasn't. You guys have a really good chemistry. Yeah.

Like, it looks like you guys are really genuine friends. Yeah. Like, I think, I just think, like, you know, the thing that with me and G is that we're very similar. And I feel like he's very kind. And I feel like he's a dope person.

I just feel like we're both, it's hard. It's hard to be, like, I don't know what you can sit. Like, to me, a real friend is like my best friend who lives here and, like, we just hang out. and we're real genuine friends and we talk about life and stuff like that. I guess you could say we're genuine friends in a Hollywood sense. Right. Yeah.

Isn't that fucked up? No, I want to sound like, no, because G's dope because I'll call him right now and be like, yo, gee, I need you to come do this for me right now and he would do it. And I would do the same exact thing for him.

I did all his, I did on his tour. I hopped on a plane and I did most of his shows. And I jumped on stage. I didn't get paid for anything. Club appearances, all the promo. Obviously it was good for myself too.

But even for his tours, Like for tour doesn't matter for me like I don't need to be doing but I wanted to be there to sing the song for him You know and I would do and I had other things I was starting I was starting to finish my project and about to put a single out and I had other shit to do but I was still doing it because You know we will always kind of have this You know special thing because of what that song was you know it kind of changed both our lives you know sure if the thing is in in LA There's this vibe of mutual exploitation. What does that mean at mutual? Kind of like like if you scratch my back I'll scratch yours versus New York where it's kind of like every man for himself, every woman for themselves, you know?

And versus here, it feels like, it feels like in New York there's like this like, I don't need to make friends. I'm here to be like. See, I don't agree. Like, okay, you have that sense in New York, but here it's like, here it's like, I don't need to make friends, but I'm going to fake it. I'm going to play this, like, I'm going to play like this level up game. Like, it's about level eight.

You know, I mean, like, it's kind of like, I don't know, it's just mad fake. That's why we're all fuck fake friends. G's on it, too. I mean, here's a great example of what you mean to the industry, that when you're looking at your own songs and how many people are coming onto your music, you know, whether it's like, here in Nikki Minaj, she ends up featuring on yours, you know, and starting, like, you just release a record with Lil Wayne on it. Yeah.

I mean, it's not like. it's crazy you're not it's crazy you're talking about the biggest the biggest artists in the world are featuring on your records yeah so like it's cool because they like they kind of like it's kind of dope because they like first of all fuck with the song and they respect me but I don't even like think about it that way I just like I don't know

I just think it's cool is the so the goal now is like is making sure that the next one that's a hit is you featuring them I mean you even have that number one dance record with Martin Garrick's and all that stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that cash cash, fucking old. Yeah. No, but I think, I think, um,

I don't think it's like the next one. I think it's like building levels. And I think my career has been very interesting. It's kind of been like literally levels. Like literally like steps. Like it's the, it's like, I mean, it's been like walking up the empire fucking state building. If we want to talk about steps, but it's kind of been steps. Because like when you look at all the greatest careers, you know, obviously the music business isn't a different place right now. go back to the Rihannas, go back to everybody.

And now we're in a kind of weird place where, you know, songwriters are kind of coming to be these artists, kind of dope, like the Sias and the Farrells and the, you know, remember Miss Yeli? And, like, that's dope. I think it's so cool because it's like, nobody really, you look at a Rihanna or you look at somebody, and you're like, Rihanna.

But fucking go all the way back to when that girl came out with, Hey, Mr. DJ, some Bob W play. Mr. DJ, I don't know, yeah. Remember that with her, like, like her, like her, her Fover 21 outfit or some shit? like that? Remember that shit? Yeah. And then now she's fucking wearing Valenciaaga, fucking more than our cars are worth. You know what I mean? She looks like a fucking, she's a badass bitch.

I love her. So it's like, you don't look at that stuff, but you don't look at all the song that came after that that failed. And then you don't know the story that she had to, who knows, put, from what I heard, put money into SOS to pay what's his name to get that song to stay, to stay on. The label was about to drop her and all that bullshit. Yeah. You don't know their journeys. It's a long-ass journey. That bitch didn't step up, that bitch didn't come out a month ago and have and is Rihanna. Like, Beyonce too. I was thinking about Beyonce.

My cousin's like, how did Beyonce? I'm like, how did Beyonce do it? Beyonce, how did she do it? She started when she was 19 running on a fucking treadmill with heels and singing. You know what I mean? You don't know her story. Like, she didn't just become Beyonce.

You don't just become greatness overnight. Like, greatness is not overnight. It's not. Like, this shit takes a long time. And I could have a number one out the back. But you know how many people I can count. on my hand right now with number ones off the back that just fucking fell that fell that fell off that didn't have a brand that didn't have a that didn't have a that didn't have a that don't have a that don't have a that don't have that are not

saying anything I don't want to be that artist I'm not that artist listen I've worked and you know one thing I want to clear up is I've worked with a lot of big producers a lot of big producers a lot of Swedish people I have nothing but love for them the thing is also when I work with a lot of these people when I was in that weird headspace when I was anxious and depressed. I wasn't in my right mindset. I was fucked up. I was like fucked up. So I was not the best me that I could possibly be. So like a lot of these people would judge me when I was younger and I was confused and I was hurt and they don't want to work with me. But I, I'll be shit up right now too. Like when I first went when I first met work with J. Cash, big writer. You work with you know J. Cash. He had his own issues. He's going to kill me. But I walked into the studio and he said, listen,

I've written hits. I'm going downstairs. I'll be back. You got to prove yourself. When I come back, the song better be written. Right now, I fucking love Jay Cash. Yeah. He came up to me like a real fucking man. And he said, I'm so sorry about what I did.

I was a shitty person at that time. Yeah. And now he's on my songs and he's helping me fix up my songs. And I respect him. I respect his ear. I respect him as a person. And after that, I respect him so much more. You know what I mean?

Yeah, his sobriety is amazing. I hated him so much. You know what I mean? it's hard when people judge people for the day they meet them no matter what it is life that's just life but that's the beauty of life that's what i'm saying nothing is do or die things come around first full circle you know but like now i'm thinking like with me i'm like i look back at everything and i want more it's like you know bisona has a baby and she releases a song why does she keep why does she keep releasing song why does she keep wanting more she could fucking retire tomorrow right and sit on 500 million and she's still fucking biance why do you want more it's human nature but i think the thing is my thing has been a journey

and i'm and now when i look at it i'm like wow like everything makes sense it's kind of creepy it's kind of creepy going all the way back from playing trumpet to to to to then being in the choir to then singing opera music to being obsessed with the stevie wonder stuff for a year to going to meeting sam cox and the writing things to getting my songs to getting songs kind of stolen in a sense to you know with the korean stuff to then doing the monster and then and then getting respect from the monster to then have have the risk to build respect in the music business so that i can do my own music getting signed to the record label that i'm at right now and and then and then also being like yo like i don't want to just write songs that are like i want to say something and that's what

i think the problem is with a lot of these artists is like they come on the scene and they're pretty great you're fucking pretty and you look fucking great but what the fuck are you saying what the fuck are you saying? What do you mean to my generation? Because when I grew up, my mom played me Lauren Hill, the miseducational Lauren Hill. Yeah, I was a one. Onanus Morset, pink. Who's saying that to me right now? Who's saying that as a female? The guys are killing the game right now. The guys are killing the fucking game. Kendrick Lamar right now. Kendrick, the new Kendrick album. Drake, all these dudes, like, chants. The girls, don't get me wrong. I, I love Alessiakara. Like, I fuck with Alessiakara. That he.

That's the biggest mistake of the Grammys this year was that she wasn't up for Best New Artist and there were some other people. Blows my mind. Alessia Cara? Like, come on. Prodigy writer. Come on.

Like, to me, it's like, don't get me wrong. There's different types of music. We don't got to be hard and heavy all the time. Do you listen to other types of music? Do you listen to like non-pop stuff? Do you listen to pop stuff? I don't know. I don't know what I don't. I can open up my stuff.

Spotify right now. I like pop music. I like, I don't know. I like, I just, I listen. Are you inspired by Kendrick? I listen straight up hip-hop. I like hip-hop. I love hip-hop. Also, like, I used to listen to a lot of hip-hop when I was younger too. Oh, well, because back in the day also, there's a website called SoundClick.

Have you ever heard of SoundClick? No. That's how I started writing my songs and putting them on MySpace. So SoundClick is like a straight-up rapper website. And it'll be like, Johnny on the beat. Like every three seconds. Johnny on the beat. And I would go and fucking take my mom's credit card.

And it was $25 to lease the beat. And if you wanted to buy the beat, it was $500. But I was not going to pay $500. So it was like, you know, Johnny on the beat. And I would, but they would only be hip hop beats. So I couldn't find, I didn't know how to find beats at the time. So I had to, I had, so where did I find beats? I would Google.

How to find beats. Hip hop beats. Here comes soundclick.com. When on soundclic.com found all these beats, but they were all hip hop beats. So that's when I started writing songs. So here I am a white girl writing on these hip hop beats. But that's what kind of gave me my swag. And then I would take those songs, put them on my space.

And that's what led to me meeting all these other producers. But all the producers that I mostly work with were hip hop producers. So they all have this hip hop sensibility. It's just out of necessity. It's like, this is what I got. So I got to learn to write this way. The beat is like, and like I'm trying to like write a pop song to it. Right.

Like this doesn't sound like the radio. What the fuck? Yeah. Yeah. So it's like weird, but it was funny, you know? Um when you write By the way

Are you still writing for other people? I don't really know I just write yeah I guess so Because I mean like You must have a No I mean I don't

I just I never write for other I don't know That's like a conscious decision To be like Oh I'm writing for myself Or it's always for yourself It's always for myself

And then if someone else cuts it I could never do that Like I could If I started writing for somebody else I would not be able to write the song I would be like overthinking It would not come out Yeah

So like I just write and then they'll be like Hey yo like this song you don't want Like somebody really wants to sing it I'll be like who And then if I like the person

I'll be like okay cool yeah Go ahead If I fuck with them as an artist If I don't like them I'd be like no You know what I never write for Because every interview Every person I ever work with

Like in when I do interviews Because you do like all You know when you do promo It's like literally 80 interviews In one day Back to back to back to back To back It's the same

How can be creative In that environment That sounds awful You can't When you go, no, you got it literally, like, there's different, as an artist, there's different modes. You got the writing mode where you're like, when you're in the studio for a month straight and you're eating like shit and you gain 10 pounds. And then you got the promotion mode when you better start fucking jogging. And then you're literally like, the days are insane.

Like, wow. Like I could. I mean, you have your best friend. I know your cousin's here. Your brother's here. I woke up. I woke up. We had a 6 a.m. training session.

of the trainer on the road, go into glam at 7.30 because I gave myself 30 minutes to take a shower, whatever, moisturize, you know, brush my teeth. Then, um, from 730 to 9.30, we go into glam. 10 o'clock to like 8 p.m. straight up promo. I'm talking about MTV, YouTube, Twitter, back to the hotel. Two rooms, they would rent two rooms. You go one room in with the camera crew, the other camera crew setting up in the other room.

You go into the other room, that other room to break. down and prepares for that. Then the other room has a, then there's another room with the writer with just a thing on it. Then one person wants to do a Snapchat story, back to back to back to back to back. Then you finish that. You go do your radio interviews. You do your radio interviews.

You know, like yesterday the day before, you know, I woke up two hours on the phone with radio stations. Then I had a meeting at Apple. Then I went to the studio. It's like crazy. And this is right. This is the week you release. I think you're, didn't it just come up?

Five days, six days? It comes out in seven days? No, it just came out. It just came out. For me, it's nothing. Like, I like it. I like keep me busy because my, my baby. Yeah, well, you used to take three hours to, you know, trains, planes, automobiles to get

to a session to work for probably like six hours and then find a way back. So it's not like. Six hours. We'd be there all night. Your work ethic, though, is pretty much like, it was ingrained with, you know, when you're 15 trying to do this shit. with your parents being like don't go there you're like

I gotta go I'm sorry but I've got to do this and that and the other and you were like making your schedule when everyone else is like I don't know yeah it has to be right I was sitting on the computer for like 12 hours oh my god wait 3 p.m. when I got home to 3 a.m. in the morning that's 12 hours right

I was obsessed with comping vocals obsessed that sounds so arduous I don't know what that means it sounds boring as shit That's such a songwriter word. Arduous.

I've never used it in a song. Really? You should try. $5. Give it to see it. She could sing it. She would like, ah, do us. You're like, wow, that sounds amazing.

I feel like, see it could sing anything. It would sound dope. You know what I mean? Some people will give me like a line in the studio and they were like, I don't think this line's going to work. I'm like, yes, it is. Like, it could be like, I want those croissons right now. I want to eat a croissant.

You know what I mean? I love that. Because like, somebody would be like, I want a croissant right now. I really want to eat a croissant. It's like, no, I think it's the way you sing it. Yeah, but some of that's like your actual given tone. I mean, unfortunately, I sound like, you know. Shut up.

Shut up. Your voice is cray. Okay, so. I asked, I actually asked a lot of people, like I said, what's a question that I can ask an amazing female pop star? And you answered pretty much every single one. You know, a lot of people were asking about, you know, misogyny and why there are so few female writers

compared to female artists and all this stuff, but I think you've kind of explained a lot of that. But the one thing that I think... Is there really, though? I don't think about it that way. And that's, I don't think about it that way. I think about it as just fucking put the work in. The problem is,

is that if you think that somebody's going to knock on your door and be like, you are so beautiful and you got a crazy-ass motherfucking voice, here's a real thing. here's a record deal and you are about to be famous in two weeks bitch go to fucking guitar center whatever the fuck Sam Ash I don't know where the fuck you live

go for the people that want to know go buy yourself a laptop or if you have one go buy yourself pro tools if you can if you don't know how to use pro tools buy yourself logic if logic is still too hard for you go use fucking garage band right go buy yourself a cheap ass microphone go in the computer and start writing your songs and put the power within you. Because that's the problem is that even with me, some people are like, wow, you come off too hard, you come off too masculine, you need to be more feminine when you talk to people in the studio.

You need to be less. I'm like, why? Because I know what I want. Yeah, I think it's great. Yeah, I know what I want. I think it's super fun. But I think females can do it. It's that the problem is you got to put the same amount of work in as the guys.

A lot of the females that I've met that are successful, pop stars too, even Nikki Minaj, fucking beast. She works like a... Workaholic. I know this is so fucked up to say because I hate saying man but she works like a fucking man. Like she's a fucking gangster.

You just got to put the work in and I think for females we're told to be like it's hard too because you're told you have to be this pretty looking thing but then you'll have to also sing these amazing songs

and then write them or not write them or whatever but it's like also like society too you know? Because as for guys you could be ugly as fuck but you just go in and put all the work in and if you sound good that's all that matters. Yeah, I definitely didn't get in the game

because I was, you know... I'm sorry for all the cursing, by the way. My mom, I hope she doesn't listen to this shit. She'll be proud. She'll be proud because you're honest. You're honest throughout this whole process. You think so? Yeah, I do think so.

I think that's probably what all of our parents raised us as, trying to, like, have honest children. Listen, and the end of the day, I just want to... I need to go to sleep. with the clear mind and know that I was real in every aspect of my life and I was and you know what I have no regrets yeah literally no regrets zero I'm gonna make you play one game and then we can go and we can end this thing but what this one is I'm gonna just name five things and you just tell me what's off the top of your head we don't have a name for this that went and I

always talk about we have no name for this segment So I'm going to just name five people. And you just tell me what you think of them. Ready? No. Samantha Cox. Incredible. Nikki Minaj.

Hardworking. Adam Roussel. Yo, fucking beast. Shout on my manager, Adam Roussel. Mercy. Yo, Adam Roussel is a beast. He's amazing. He's kind.

We have our moments. But we have a... we have a good chemistry. Yeah, he's so proud of you and it's fun to watch. And he believes in me too, you know what I mean? He flew out to frigging, I don't know, Maryland on a little shitty-ass jet in a storm to sign me and I was like, who the fuck are you?

Like, what are you, 22? I mean, he works so hard. But the reason why I think it's so great is because we're both young, like, and we're both kind of like around the same age. And this is all we have. We don't go home to our wives. We don't go to, and we made the decision. We go home and we're on our phones thinking about what the next move is.

We go to dinner. We're just obsessed, but in the most amazing way, why not be obsessed for right now? Because one day we will. Jeff Fenster. Oh, my God. I don't know what's... Jeff Fenster's your A&R at Warner. I will say here's a great story about Jeff.

I just like his jokes. I think he's funny as hell. You know what? He's loyal. He's still loyal. The word for Jeff Fencer is loyal. Because that, he, listen, like, no, I never met anybody loyal like him before. Like, he, he, he shows up to sessions.

He, he, he, he actually also has a, like, he, listen, like, Jeff Fencer is not 30 years old. You know what I mean? But fuck his age. His ear. He stays relevant. He knows what's going on. Yeah, it puts in the effort. It takes so much effort to stay relevant in this.

and he's still relevant. And he does put his like... He fights for me though. He always fights for me and you know what? And he one thing that I like about him is that he let me be me and he always let me be me and always believed in me and he let me, and you know what? He let me to his journey.

He let me grow. He let me develop into being this artist and he always kind of like just was there. You know, kind of like being a little like the fount, like the little pillow but underneath me, you know, kind of keeping me like comfortable. So he kept me doing what I wanted to do, which led to this point, which is now working. What about, and this is a kind of a halfer, but your parents, your mom and your dad. What, like one word for them?

I don't know. Life, man. You're my life. Yeah, I'm sorry. I talk too much. No, no. I don't even know. This game, you need to.

Because they were there saying to you that, you know, you have to go get a job and now you're one of the biggest. you know, writers, artists in the music business. I feel like that's weird. What? To say that. You don't think so?

I was out the other day and there was paparazzi and I was like, why, like I told my manager, I was like, why are they taking pictures of me? He's like,

because you're like a celebrity. He's like, no, I'm not. Do not fucking say that word. That's some weird ass word. I like, do not say that shit to me. You don't,

you're just, are you in denial? I was getting my eyebrows done. And then the fucking next day, a picture comes out of the fucking I okay so usually they're around you but one time also the fucking picture came out I was standing at the corner looking at my thing slunched over with my fucking like little belly like thing coming out like obviously your human being how where the fuck do they take that picture from now they got the long cameras they take them from like a fucking mile away and you look like a beast and you're like what the fuck I either go on jenny craig or some shit like what the fuck is going on me I got to lay off the croissants no but I'm like I'm like I hate that word that word freaks me out really funny that's a weird word

You're kind of in denial. No, no, no. Even though I fight my manager every day, I'm like, what? I was like at the Billboard Awards and I was with Calid and I was like, why? Like, why are they, why am I doing this? He's like, what? He's like, what are you talking about why you're doing this? I was like, I don't know.

I don't feel like I belong here. He's like, you're, okay, let's call up your therapist. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. No, but my parents, like, going back to that, like, they're my life. My mom, especially is my life. My life. Like, I texted him yesterday. I was like, honestly, mom.

I was like whatever happens in my life, I just want to fucking, I want to win. I want to fucking be the biggest. I want to be the fucking best. I won't stop until I, I won't rest until I am. But I want to fucking win so that I could give you everything that I get. I want to share with my mom. Because I came out here to L.A. And I'm like, L.A. is great.

I love the weather. But life is not the same without the people you love around you. If you can't share it with them. Right. Well, but that's, that's a really humbling thing. I mean, here you, again, I started by saying family because the first time I met you, you had your brother in the studio. Yeah. And here you have family with you again in the studio. It's like, like, you have like your. Well, because I feel like I get really sad when I'm alone. Because I'll, like, I'll be on the road for months at a time. I'm like, I don't know why I'm sad. My mom's like, because you're lonely because like you're in a hotel room every night. So like we're doing the Indy 500 on Saturday. I'm singing the Star Spangled banner. My brother loves cars

My dad's dream was always to go to the ND 500 So I fucking, you know what I'm? Listen My dad never flew first class before I fucking got him a first class seat He deserves it Let my fucking, my dad come with my brother And let them come watch me at the ND 500 And let them enjoy that moment with me

Yeah Because I could die the day after some shit Well That if that doesn't sort of exemplify Who you are as a human And where you've come through this process Yeah It's cool

I mean honestly Honestly, it's been so insane. I'm sorry for cutting you off. I'm just also shocked, too. Like, we did the tour in Europe and we did the tour here. Like, I'm not going to lie. I used to do, I did a couple of shows back in the past. It was like 100 people.

Now, fucking, I did the, I did the, the, in New York, I don't even know what the show. The Irving Plaza sold out. And then we did another show at fucking Brooklyn sold out. And then I'm like, wow. I'm like, yo, 3,000 people came to watch me. I'm like, how? Why? Like.

Because you're honest. But I was like, that's, like, crazy to me, too. Like, because you get caught up in it and you get caught in the game. You get caught in the number game. You get caught in the radio game. You get caught on Instagram, on Instagram likes. You get caught up in all of this shit. And it's hard.

I'm not going to lie. And that's life in general. But, like, especially in the music business, you get caught up in this shit. But you got to take a step back sometimes. And it's really hard for me. It's hard because I see, like, all these other artists who, like, you know, they'll come off a Disney channel and shit and have millions of fans. But it's like, I can't compare them.

My journey is different. My journey is different. And sometimes you got to take a step back and be like, wow, I'm fucking blessed. Because somebody told me that you would never be nothing more than a girl from Staten Island. You will never be nothing more than a girl from Staten Island. But they said it out of love because they wanted me to take the, they wanted me to take the jump and fucking put music out because I was too scared to put my music out. And I could have fucking still be in Staten Island going to Royal Crown Bakery, the one across from my house, had a million of those Italian butter cookies, 50 pounds overweight and still trying to make music off my computer. but I'm fucking here in California.

My cousin is here hanging with me. We fucking rented a convertible. We're about to drive that shit down, fucking Sunset Boulevard. Go to our next session. In the studio where Michael Jackson recorded. Yeah.

You know, it's like you're in the heart of it. Go to fly to fucking do the Indy 500. Come back to practice for Jimmy Kimmel. Like what the hell? That's crazy. Like it's... But you've earned it.

Nobody deserves shit. But you've earned it. You've earned it. You've earned it. You worked. really hard when there was no money and with people saying that you're never going to make it. And now you're singing, you know, the national anthem from, you went literally, what a great way to bookend this. So you started by singing the national anthem when you're eight years old.

Did I really? When did I say that one? Oh, yeah, yes, yes. So there you go. That's how this thing happens. Yeah, I guess so. Literally, that is the difference. If there's one way to bookend this conversation, you started by singing for 15 people,

and now you're singing national television in front of... Eight million people. Yeah. Also, you know what I remember my cousins say? We were in Paris the other day, Paris, France. My first show ever was in Poughkeepsie. Poughkeepsie, New York City. So you know what we said?

Motherfuckysi to motherfucking in Paris, Biches. There you go. On that note, thank you so much. Thank you, Ross, so much. I really appreciate you. Everybody, I'm sorry about all the cursing, but that's just who I am. Love Beady.

Sorry. Thanks for listening to this episode of And The Writer Is. If you want to hear music from this songwriter I just interviewed, be sure to check out our Spotify playlist or visit our website at and The WriterIs.com. If you like what we're doing, please subscribe to us on iTunes. You can also like us on Facebook and Twitter.

And The Writer Is is is produced by Joe Lundee. edited by Miles Bergsmuh and published by Big Deal Music. A special thanks to Jeff Sparger, David Silberstein from Mega House Music, and Michael White. Until next time, this is Ross Bowling.