And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan - Ep. 224: HAIM | Do It Your Way. (“I quit", + more)

Episode Date: October 13, 2025

Today’s guests are HAIM — one of the most unique voices in modern music, known for blending rock, pop, and soul into a sound that defined a generation. From garage band beginnings to Grammy nominations, they’ve collaborated with some of the biggest names in music while staying fiercely true to themselves.And the writer(s) are... HAIM!In this episode, we dive into a decade-long journey of grit, growth, and creative conviction — from rejection to recognition. The sisters open up about the early years, the family dynamics, and the lessons that shaped their songwriting and success. In this episode:• How HAIM built success on their own terms after years of “no’s”• The real stories behind their biggest records• What they’ve learned about songwriting, collaboration, and creative controlChapters0:00 Intro Teaser – HAIM’s Gritty Start Against All Odds0:30 Nobody Wanted to Sign Us – Early rejections that almost stopped HAIM1:10 The Sister Dynamic – Therapy, tension, and love between bandmates2:30 Strict Parents, Rebellion & First Gigs5:00 Leaving for Tour at 19 – Danielle’s leap of faith7:30 Almost Famous IRL – Touring with Jenny Lewis & Julian Casablancas9:15 Skipping College & Faking Dentist Notes12:30 Oldest Sibling Pressure & UCLA Lessons15:00 Nobody Wanted Rock Music – Breaking through rejection16:00 Meeting Ludwig Göransson – The producer who changed everything18:30 2 AM Sessions & the “Forever” EP20:00 SXSW Madness – 14 shows in 5 days22:00 The UK Breakthrough – Why British fans got it first25:10 How They Learned to Write Songs – Lessons from “Rockin’ Haim”27:00 Recording Songs from the Radio – Childhood obsession that sparked their craft31:10 The First HAIM Song Ever – From bad demos to “The Wire”34:10 The 10,000 Hours – Becoming one of LA’s best live bands35:45 Days Are Gone – Finding their sound amid chaos38:30 Working with James Ford & Ariel Rechtshaid40:50 Balancing Chaos and Craft – The HAIM recording process42:10 Collaborating with Kid Cudi – Their first big studio moment43:10 Touring Exhaustion & Finding Their Groove45:15 Shutting Down Ventura Blvd – The iconic “Want You Back” video47:39 Women in Music Pt. III – Growth & vulnerability48:30 GarageBand & Songwriting – Danielle’s creative superstition49:30 The Making of “I Quit” – A new era of HAIM50:00 Creative Control & Saying No to Labels52:00 Lessons from Paul Thomas Anderson – Vision & long-take storytellingPresented by@NMPA | @nmpaorg – Fighting for songwriters’ rights and fair pay.Learn more at NMPA.org.@Splice – The industry’s top royalty-free sample library and creator platform, supporting original artists with world-class sounds and ethical AI tools.Download Splice and start creating today.And The Writer Is...Hosted by Ross GolanExecutive Produced by Joe London & Jad SaadFollow us everywhere → @andthewriteris Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

No one wanted to sign us. You're a girl band. Nobody wants it. You play rock music. Nobody wants it. And we just kept going because we loved playing live. Time! Our first show had like 30 kids. And we were like,

we've made it. We played South by South West. The first three days, there's no one coming. And then I guess word of mouth happened by the end. Like, we were one of those bands that had that show that no one could get into. And we got signed almost immediately. Was it hard for you to define the difference between

fanmate and sister. Oh. Therapy. There was a lot of pressure. It was the biggest roller coaster of my life. This season is presented by NMPA, the National Music Publishers Association. Champions of songwriters and publishers everywhere.

Welcome to And The Writer is. I am your host, Ross Golan. Today's trio of musical geniuses blend their unmistakable sibling harmonies into a mix of delicious genre bending batter. They've crafted a sound that's both timeless and fresh out the oven.

They've toured the world, collaborated with some of the biggest names in music, and cooked up albums that have resonated deeply with multiple generations of listeners. Ailing all the way from the Valley, this band has always

embraced a journey of sonic evolution, innovation, and undeniable authenticity, and the writing Our leaders are is Hiam. Yay. What beautiful intro.

Thank you so much. I'd never had empathy for older children until I had my son when I realized, oh, my God, you have to be brave and like enter the world

like as this. Yeah, we're warriors. We were like, I mean, I feel for you. Wait, where are you? Do you have siblings? I have an older sister. I'm actually seeing, I'm learning what it's like to be an older sibling through my son.

And so, it's rough. Why is it rough? Well, because my parents didn't know what the fuck they were doing. And they make, like, they, there's no blueprint. Like, I feel for my parents. But like, I, they were the strictest with me. I wasn't allowed to do anything. I mean, I, I literally like, I, my parents are basically like, oh, you want to play with your friends. Your sisters are in the backyard. Go have fun. Oh, what a chore. But do you know what a chore? I mean, oh, do you know what I mean?

Do you remember life before Danielle? Oh, she loved it. That was like, that was Estu's, that was Estu three years of her life. That was party time. And then Danielle came along. I cut off all her hair the second she turned three. She literally, I gave her the work, yeah, in it while she was sleeping. Oh, that's creepy.

Yeah. But creepy and funny. I hated her. Are you kidding me? I was like, you literally just came and blew up my life. Like, everything was great until you. At what age did you realize that they're pretty cool? I would say like last year.

Yeah. Literally 10 minutes ago. You're still in there. I'm still trying to figure it out. Yeah, okay. No, I think it hasn't happened yet. I think once, once I got my driver's license. Yes.

Big deal. That was a, that was, that was really like life-changing. Yes. I got my license. My parents were, like I said, very, like, strict. I understand, like, they were raising three girls. But you're like, I mean, there are. are archetypes of every, you know, the birth order of children.

And you are, I was the most responsible. You're a true oldest child. Yes. Very protective. You're the most, you're the most studious. You went to college. Like you, that's, you're the type A, you know. Yes.

Overachiever. But I think I was also the most rebellious. Speaking to the youngest child. I think I was the most rebellious. What? Okay. You can think that. Do you guys disagree with that?

I think I was the most rebellious. Does everybody think they're the most rebellious? I don't know if I was rebellious. I'm a self-rebellion. To be fair. De Nielf rebel. You were a self-rebel. No, Danielle did leave.

Danielle was the first person to leave and like go see the world out of the siblings because I know I always speak for Danielle. Just so everybody knows, I know it's like a high-em trait that we never let Danielle speak. But Danielle left at 19. But who helped you? You did. I went on my first tour when I was 19. Oh wow.

Yeah. Why? Because I went out one night and met this amazing. It was a little like that thing you do. It was literally like that. Yeah, I met this guy, Michael Runyon, and he was going on tour with Jenny Lewis. And he was opening up for her. And I met him one night out.

I think I was at Spaceland. And, you know, we would all go out in right after high school. Like I started going out and Estee was at UCLA. But like I went on a whim to like the free night at Spaceland on Monday. days or something. And I met this guy, Michael Runyon. And we started talking. He's like, oh, do you, do you play instruments? And I'm like, I am. I'm a drummer. I play guitar. And he was like, I need a drummer. I'm going on tour in a week. And I was like, oh my God, no way with who. And he was like, well, my really good friend Jenny Lewis were opening up for her. And I was like,

and I was obsessed with Jenny. And I was like, really? And he was like, we need a drummer. My drummer's mom just got sick and he has to go to Texas. So it was like, and I was at Valley College actually at the time. And I was working. working also at American Rag selling shoes. And I just, it was like a two week tour. And I just was like, all right, this is my dream. I'm going on tour in a van. How did your strict parents?

Oh, my God. Well, so that's where Esty came in because my parents were, I was still living at home. We had just started playing shows at home, I think, a year before that. And we were still gigging like every weekend. And, but yeah, my parents were like, you're going to go in a van with strangers. Well, because it happened so quick. It was like, I'm going on tour and it leaves in seven days. Like it was there wasn't like I'm going on tour in a couple weeks.

Like it was like, I'm doing this. My parents were like, what is happening? No. No, they were like, no. Yeah. I was technically in school. So I would have to miss like, you know, three weeks or two, two and a half weeks of school. And they were like, what?

Like, you're going to go to school. And then they're going to go to UCLA after that. You're going to Valley College and UCLA. And then you're also going to have your band with your sisters. Like, why are you leaving? You know, and I was like, I got to get out of here. It seems like parents being supportive of the band and also schooling feel like those are not on the same page.

I think they were more just because we never really left L.A. growing up. So I think they were more just like, you're getting an event. It's like also almost famous. Your movie is like a million different movies. It's like, I'm going to get in a van with all, with people that we didn't grow up with, that we didn't really know that Danielle met at a bar in on the east side. And also I was like I snuck into space and like I had a fake idea. Yeah, she was 19.

Like it was my parents were like this is where I mean my mom was like I'm having a dream. That's something bad should happen. Something bad's going to happen. But Essie was the one that stepped in was like she needs to go. Like you need to she needs to go. And then my parents are like, okay, don't know how you're, you're, you're not she was still in high school. A lot of.

I was in high school. I was a soft more in high school, I think. Yeah, sophomore in high school. But yeah, that tour changed my life because I basically was the drummer in Michael's band. And then Jenny saw me play with him. And then she invited me to play percussion and guitar in her band the next year. And then she had the same manager as Julian Casablancus at the time. And then he needed a band.

So then I went from Jenny's band to go into. I went from Jenny's band to Julian's band the next year. And this is this at the time. is, you know, this is obviously after the strokes. Yeah, so this was his solo project. This was his solo project. This was in 2009.

And it was his, yeah, solar project, which I love that album so much. And I was, I just learned so much in that, like, three years of touring. Then Julian took us on. That was our first tour. Marlana was still in high school. I missed, I missed the last.

Did you graduate high school? I did. Like, I mean, I went to an arts high school in, um, in downtown Loxa. We all three went there. And by senior year, it was like the last month of senior year. By like the last month, everyone was like, I don't care. Do whatever you want. Like they were like, go off.

It was great. It was amazing. But yeah, I missed two weeks of my last month in high school and I like went on tour. I was like touring in a van. And it was the first time I had ever experienced. I mean, it was insane. That felt like almost famous to me. Do you guys feel like you missed out on college?

I think now I do. Yeah. Because I think, yeah, maybe a little bit. I mean, again, like I felt at the time it was so cool because all my friends were in college while I was then touring. Well, we also didn't get into college. Yeah, we went to community college. Like, it's not like we like had, like, we couldn't get it. Me and Danielle, Esty had the grades.

Esty was like an amazing student. me and Danielle were not amazing students at all. Also, Danielle was a senior when I was a freshman. So there were, and she was my carpool driver. She would drive me to school every day. To get to Loxa, you had to go like an hour out. So we were in the car a lot. Danielle would just turn to me and be like, do you want to go to school today?

And I'd be like, no. We just would never go to school. And then the funniest part about it is, like, weirdly, like our school to like get like your absentee slip, you just needed to call, like you would have like your mom on the phone and you would give it to the lady and she would be like, oh, they had a dentist appointment, whatever. So who do you think was the mom? We changed our name, our mom in our phone was SD's number. And we would just give our flip phone to the lady and be like, oh, sorry, the girls had a dentist appointment.

Literally every day. We had, I have the worst teeth at all time. I still have nightmares about not graduating. I, like, hardly graduated high school. Barely, barely. Which is so funny because I also just think that just generally, like, I would think that Danielle would probably be the most, like, studious set of, all three of us, like, Danielle, there was no question. I was graduating. Like, I always made sure that my grades were just good enough to get by. Danielle was like,

failing classes. And like, thanks. I wasn't failing. You failed one class. I failed one class, okay? But you almost didn't graduate because of it. God damn. Sorry. Sorry. What did you study in school at UCLA? At some musicology. Okay. So your fallback plan would have been an ethnomusicologist. So, you know, your best your like too far sorry to be this

oh I don't know is it too far away okay oh sorry check check one two now it's so close it's so incredibly close can you hear me

I bet we sound amazing yeah um thank you um it all of a sudden becomes the most sultry oh hi

hi hi guys yeah ethnomusicology was an amazing amazing uh no it was a great place

to go to school I really, yeah, I studied Bulgarian music and Brazilian percussion at UCLA. And I also got to use UCLA as my personal piggy bank to hire bands to come and play shows. You're a part of CEC. CEC, yeah, the campus events commission. So, but yeah, it was a weird time for me because I was at UCLA and I would be studying for like my music. of like Greece final and I would get on the phone with Danielle and she'd be like oh I see I can't talk right now I'm playing Fuji Rock Festival with Julian Casablanca's up oh oh sorry for

Buitoum already's like trying to get my attention by and I'd be like it'd be like four in the morning and I'd be like I did you resent them resent no jealous yes I was extremely I was like oh my God, like, my sister is literally, like, I was in school studying the stuff. Like, I wasn't in, I mean, I wasn't in school because I wanted to, like, write a book on the music of Bulgaria. I was in school because I wanted to make my parents proud. I wanted, as the oldest, if we're really, to really circle back. That's what it is. Yeah. You are, you are the stereotype. Yes, I'm fully the stereotype of the older sibling. I just saw. But you love school. I did love She loves school.

I did love school. We did not. We did not. I was, well, it wasn't even that. I was just good at it. I liked, and I liked, I liked, like, weirdly, like, I didn't like the tests. I loved the lectures and I liked writing the papers. That was, like, that was my, I don't know.

But, but when I was at UCLA, like, it was under the guise of, I'm doing this literally to get the piece of paper. Yeah. To make my mom in. I'm not proud. Thank you for doing it. If you didn't do it, we would have had to do it. It would have gone down. I mean, honestly, you're right.

I did it for you. You did it for. I didn't do it for mom and dad. I did it for you. And we appreciate your service. When did your parents feel like you guys were okay? I would say when we played SNL. Yeah.

That was like a really big. My parents literally had no clue what was going on when it came to us coming up at time. Like, obviously, we would play shows. We were, I mean, to do a very quick wrap-up. We, like, went to the U.K. No one wanted to sign this in America. Yeah, we were just playing around L.A.

while also I was touring sometimes. But we were playing in L.A. for, like, six years, just anywhere we could get to get it. We would open for any band under this. Obviously, that's what you did. A lot of the, like, clubs in. Yeah, there was the knitting factory. There was the Roxy.

There was the Echo, the Smell. The Trubidor. The Trubidor. All the, we played it all. Space Land. Silver Lake Lound. Like seven hundred times. Seven billion times.

Over and over and over again. And you think, you know, when you do this, you're like, the record company man is going to come with a finished contract. And they're going to like, I saw you and you're going to sign a life away. And that's what we like thought what would happen. Our favorite show growing up was behind the music. Yeah. At least time speaking, maybe my favorite. Did you watch that growing up?

Of course. Yeah. I mean, this is what this podcast is. Right. Oh, my God. It doesn't exist now. I know. I wish it did.

Well, now we have this. Yeah. But anyway, we just thought we were going to get signed just by playing clubs. Yeah. Yeah. No one wanted to sign us. I mean, there was like all excuses under the sun. Like, you're a girl band.

Nobody wants it. You play rock music. Nobody wants it. And we just kept going because we loved playing live. Like, that was like our favorite thing to do in life is playing live. And then we put out, we met Ludwig Gordson, USC alum. He saw us playing in the lobby of the Roseville Hotel. To four people.

I was playing. It was like kind of. of like a strip down. I was playing a big kick drum sitting down like on its side. Danielle was playing guitar out of like an amp like this big. Because we couldn't be that loud. We couldn't be that loud. We couldn't be that loud. You're in the lobby. Like we were like, it was so crazy. And he saw us in the lobby and was like, yeah, let's do something. Do you want to come to my studio? And we had never really worked in a home studio before. Like, all we would do is like to try and get a song on our MySpace wall.

we would like save up all of our money all year and go into like one of the Valley Studios and be there for one day and be like we're gonna make as many songs we're gonna record 10 songs in the world I put on our my space so we get booked at the troubadour

and it always sounded bad and Ludwig was the first person that like he was doing the music for community that a show on with yeah he was scoring and so he said I have my own studio one of you guys just come and we can like work on music.

After I'm done with my work. So like at 10 p.m. to like two in the morning. For free. Those who don't know who Ludwig is, he's, you know, maybe the biggest film composer.

Of all time. I'm so like now, this was 2011. This was 2011. It's, we're so insanely like in awe of Ludwig. Like, first of all,

he again was like the first. When did you know that guy had the skill sets to be the biggest composer? From the second we met him. Right away. I mean, Again, we met him in the lobby. And he also is Swedish.

Like, yeah. And just he was just like, come to my studio. And we were like, okay. For free? And he was like, yeah. And we were like, out of like the goodness, I've never met somebody that is so insanely giving. And from the goodness of his heart, like sauce is abandoned like, literally like it's for a three song EP.

It took us almost four months to make. Well, because we're also going into his studio after he was done scoring. So we'd come in. he'd be like finishing his community score. And also watching that was like a ballet. Like, he was insane. It was crazy. He would just like grab a guitar, grab the bass.

He would play everything. How were you guys surviving as humans? And, you know, at that point, you're done with schools. We're all living at home. You're all living at home. Did you see. Cheesecake factory. The daily grill.

But you worked at the grill. But you worked at the grill. Or the counter. The counter. The counter. Wasteland. Urban outfitters. Like, I did it all.

I worked at a tanning salon. I did it all. And we were also living at home. And I was working at Crossroads Trading Company. Daniel was like living off my, at that point, I was living off of the touring money. I mean, it was very small. But you were still living at home. Yeah, but Ludwig would literally call us, like, we'd be in bed.

Yeah, it'd be in PJs. And like, we're about to go to bed and we'd get a text from Ludwig that was like, I got two hours. And we'd be like, here we go. All right. And then we would drive, because we're all living at home. And we would drive together to go to Ludwig's studio and get guitar like tracking done. So it was literally we were just chipping away at it like day after day for this like four or five month period. Yeah.

And then the forever EP came out and that was being played in the UK. Like it got into the hands. We played South by Southwest. No one wanted to sign a still. Marianne Hobbs XFM. We love you. We'll say it till the day we died changed our lives. She started playing one of the songs on the radio.

And that is what got us brought us to the UK. And we got signed almost immediately when we got to the UK. We play like a bunch of shows. This is a very abridged version. I am because I wanted, well, the thing is the question was, how did your parents know that you were in? So I'm trying to get to S&S. Okay. This is very abridged.

I'm sorry, abridged. There's a lot of things in between, but I'm trying to get to the answer the question. So then we got signed in the UK and, I mean, it took a lot. I feel like, yeah. We don't have to go through the whole thing. Okay, fine. So S&L. Yeah.

We finally get S&L. I'm sure getting, sorry. I don't mean. I'm trying to do all the steps here. When we got SNL, first of all, SNL to any, I mean, to us growing up, that was like our family show. We would watch it. That was the only time my parents let us stay out, stay up past 9 p.m. for our bedtime. We would watch SNL as a family and it was, you know, Maya Rudolph, Molly Shannon,

Sherry O'Terry, Anna Gassire, like all the, all the funny girls. That's just why, like, we grew up thinking it was cool to be funny. It was because we saw all these women on SNL being so unapologetically funny and, like, physical comedy and just such intel like it's just the best it was just the best era um and so when we got SNL my parents were like

what yeah you were going to be on SNL and we were like yeah and they were like can we come and I was like yeah but um isn't it jarring when you do SNL and you go onto that stage and you realize that how much

uh of the design is to show depth. But there's, you have, this stage, the stage is tiny. When you go on the stage there, it is jarring how much those band members are sitting on top of each other. It's brilliant. It's a crazy place. And I think the funniest thing is when we played SNL the first time, we didn't even have

in-ears yet. Like, we weren't playing on in-years. We were just playing on wedges. And we showed up and we were like, oh, they were like, you can't. We haven't, we haven't seen anybody. They were like, out of storage. has used wedges in like 15 years. Since the 70 years.

We were trying to get it louder and they're like it's going to feed back. Yeah, you can't have that. So when we play, I still haven't watched our first S&L performance because it's like terrifying. But like literally like our wedges were like a whisper. And I just remember the only thing I remember from playing S&L, which I've said before, but there's this one, there was like a brick facade on the outside of the, you know, stage.

And I just stared during Don't Save Me. I just stared at a brick for the three minutes because I was like. If I see that red light, I will literally piss my pants. Like, it'll be a stream of pee. Do you guys get anxiety from performing? On SNL, of course, you're, you know. I think live television is pretty terrifying. Well, because the thing that people also understand.

Worst anxiety attack I've ever had is doing a live show. Oh, my God, which one? That makes sense. It was, I did South by Southwest a lot. And we did a thing that we did it in the studio for one of the major networks had, like, that thing that way. Yeah. Yeah.

It was like it was not fun. No. I'm also hoping for the strokes in like 1999. My God. Before they were signed to ours. Before they were. In New York? No, it's south by.

Oh, it's up. No way. Before they were, um, before they were signed a RCA? So were they signed a rough trade maybe? Or it was like,

it was they had just printed out the demo, which I have some. The modern age. Oh, the modern age. Yeah. So crazy. The EP was just like weird. Like the,

the journey of an aspiring musician in not just L.A. But the. country is this, you know, you constantly are knocking on the door, meeting this person who knows this person, this person who knows this person. What is it about the UK audience that understands how I am better than anyone else in the world? You know, we, what is crazy about that is we recognized that trajectory of the certain bands that we loved happening, like the strokes, huge in the UK before they were in the U.S.

white stripes, even like Tom Petty, you know, and I think we were always like, we want to go to the UK, but I don't know how we're going to get there. And it just, it's crazy that it just so happened that happened to us. You know, that wasn't by design. It was just that Marion Hobbs on XFM. To now make the story a little bit longer.

There we go. Marion Hobbs at XFM started playing better off. Better off from our EP. And we were actually at South By, our first South By and playing the beginning of the week, we played to three people.

And we also didn't get accepted to South By when we went. They sent us that like sad letter. They were like, all right. You get an official showcase, babe. You get on the, like, there's like red gorilla. And there's like all, if you go to South By, when I first went in 99,

it was also at a place that's, uh, Iron Cactus doesn't even have music. there anymore, but it was like maybe the total week was 400 bands, which was a lot. Yeah. Now there's like 3,000 and they all play multiple shows a day. Oh yeah. All through Austin.

And there's like, and you go there with maybe if you're fortunate you have a label who funds the money for you to play in front of nobody. Yeah. And then otherwise you're still saying. No, we didn't have anything. We went and we got that letter. We got that letter.

like shit, do we still go? And we're like, no, we're going to go because we had a lot of friends that were booking their own shows. So we're like, okay. So we'll just basically bank on all of our friends putting them on, putting us on their shows. But we were like beginning, beginning of the bill. Yeah.

So it was like, you know, our shows, a lot of our shows were at like 11 a.m. Yeah. And yeah, I'll never forget. Like the first we did, I think we did like 14 shows in five days, something like that. Yeah. So like the first three days, there. there was no one coming. And then I guess word of mouth happened by the end, like we were one of those

bands that had that like show that no one could get into. And we were just like mind blown. And I think it was that same day that we heard that Marion Hobbs was playing us in the UK. And we were like, what? That is the craziest shit of ever heard of. So we still did South by, but still, even though we had like some success at South By, still no US label wanted to sign us. And so we were like, we had heard of.

this other kind of South by Southwest-ish festival in the UK called The Great Escape in Brighton. And we were like, well, we got to go to that. But let's go to that. It seems like there's something going on in the UK. And we kind of, we went over there just like us and our drummer. Mm-hmm. On wedges. On wedges still.

Without wedges. But we ended up going to that festival and then went to London to play a few shows. And then we got our first. like record offer. Was it hard for you guys to define the difference between bandmate and sister? Oh. Kending with the hard question. Therapy.

I think we've just always been, I mean, this, Hym was our second band. We were in a band with our parents called Rockenheim, where we would play covers. For like 15 years. I do know that. Yeah. So we were... Flashback. Sorry, flashback.

So the way you got introduced to music was because your parents were music lovers. Our parents were music lovers, like, loved just playing, like, covers and playing music in our living room. Like, they never wrote songs. They never knew. And they never had aspirations to become, you know, big musicians. They just loved playing music. My mom grew up giving guitar lessons to, like, the local kids in her neighborhood. My dad.

She loved, like, Bonnie. Bonnie and Joni and Joni. I was like her. My mom was like a folk queen that loved to disco dance though. Yeah. She was a hippie, diphy disco dancer. She loved the disco dance. And my dad loved playing drums and like they kind of fell in love by their love of music as well.

And so my dad had a dream. This is a whole folklore thing. My dad had a dream one night that he was going to be in a play music with his kids. And the next day there was like this, before Craigslist, there was this thing called The Recycler, which it was like a printout. And it was before the Internet, before anyone knew what they had, like price-wise. Did you ever fuck with the recycler? Yeah, of course. Yeah.

Yeah. So that in LA Weekly. Yeah, yeah, exactly. The printout. Yeah. If you're going to play like any open mic, you had to know. Oh, yeah. Yeah, of course.

So my dad saw that there was like a church in Barstow that was selling a bunch of insurance. My dad drove to Barstow, and he literally got everything for, like, dirt cheap. Like, it was crazy. It's like $400 for everything. And he came home. I was four years old, and we started Rockingheim, which was just cover bands. We were just in the living room. In the living room.

It was just for charity. Yeah. Because we ended up getting okay. Like, it was very cute. Like, we weren't, like, amazing, especially not on the beginning. I feel like every time I'm nervous I look at the camera. Would you guys trade off? I know it's.

somewhat different now, but were you guys trading off who would sing at the time? Oh, yeah. Like I would sing some verses. Our mom would sing a lot. We would all kind of just trade off vocals and... Have you brought them on stage to sing with you? A million times.

We just did at Jazz Fest. At Jazz Fest. They just played with us at Jazz Fest. It was their festival debut. It was very cute. But that's how we learned early songwriting was what we would do in Rockingheim because also this is before... This is like 90.com.

Like any sort of internet. We didn't have a computer. We didn't have a computer. We didn't have anything. You don't have internet. So we would listen to K Earth 101. Shout out to K Earth 101. K Earth 101.

And we had like a tape recording radio situation. So my parents would like wait for a song that they thought would be easy enough for us to learn. Or for at least my mom to be able to pick out the chords. And we would have recorded from the radio. And my mom would use like listen to the tape a million times like pick out the chords, would teach Danielle and Esty like what. what to play. And I was on percussion.

I mean, I was four. So I could only pick a drumstick. So I had a cowbell. I was like literally like the Partridge family, like the one that only played like triangle. And we would first go through chords. Then after that, we would go through lyrics. We would write down the lyrics. And we had this like cute little Rockenheim book.

A lot of the lyrics were wrong, obviously, because we're like listening from like a radio thing. But that's how we learned early songwriting is because you figure out patterns in these early. songs, it's really easy to, you know, be like, oh, this is a one four or five, structure, like, bridge, chorus, you know, chorus, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, you know, like that. When did you guys decide to write music? NMPA is our lead sponsor yet again. What is the National Music Publishers Association? What do publishers have to do with songwriters anyway?

Well, unlike artists who can be unsigned artists, there is no such thing as an unsigned writer. You can be a self-published, a co-published, or a published writer. Publishers only make money if songwriters make money. So NNPA goes and fights for you. They go to Congress. They go and support the community. They fight DSPs to get you paid more.

That's what they do. They fight for you and they fight for this podcast. So thank you for fighting for songwriters NMPA. Thank you for fighting for us too. Okay, so I use splice. And I'm pretty sure every producer who listens to this uses Splice. But if you don't, you need to do. start using Splice. They have the most incredible licensing library that you can go through for

any kind of samples you can think of. But they take care of their original creators. In fact, they just came out with a beta version of their AI suite. Unlike its competitors that we know that may not take care of the original creators, every time you use Splice's AI tool, it triggers a licensing event for those original creators. So there's not a better company that I can think of right now that you can use where you can use the efficiency of AI and also know that you're taking care of the creators. And that is Splice. When did you guys decide to write music? That was later. That was like, I think 2006, like when I was, I think I was realizing I didn't want to go to college. And that's kind of when we decided like, maybe we should start trying to write

So did you guys write with each other for the first? Yeah. I mean, they were awful songs. What's the first song you guys were? I don't even don't even remember. They were really bad. They were really bad. They were really bad.

That's the first song. I'll never tell. I'll never tell. I'll never tell. What's a cold? I honestly don't. I genuinely, there was like a group of songs that we would play that honestly, I think we blocked it out.

But there was like that summer. So basically it was a very pivotal summer because Danielle was about to graduate high school. I was a freshman. Essie was in college. And I was like, I'm not going to college. I'm going to just stay in L.A. and just go to Valley College.

And maybe we can start writing songs and playing them out. We like went into our living room. We like plucked out a couple of chords and like probably wrote. I genuinely do not remember the first song. Like I remember like the first one that we thought was like pretty good. What was that? The wire. No way.

But that was after a year. That was after two years of writing. That was like the first song where I was like, There's something here. There's something here. But that was in 2008. So we started writing in 2000. And that song didn't come out until 2013.

Yeah. It was that was one of the, that's the oldest song we have at the time that I remember that was the first song we wrote. We were like, this is kind of good. And we kept it. But also that song went through 75. I mean, we rewrote that song a million times. By the time it came out on Days are gone. It had gone through.

I mean, again, we wrote it in 2008. So like, you can imagine it went through a lot of different things. But we would write songs. And like our first show as Haim was on 7707. We thought that was very poetic. And it was at a clown museum in the valley called the CIA, which I'm sure you've ever been? It's still around.

I don't know if it's still open, but I do have a cousin who's in the clown hall of fame, and that's true. Oh, amazing. At the CIA? At the CIA? I don't know. Okay. But I grew up with him dressing up as a clown.

Oh, I love that. I'm sure he knows what this is. CIA is, but it was like this thing where, like, Danielle was about, like, it was the last party before everybody in Danielle's grade went off to college. So, like, our first show had like 30 kids. And we were like, or we've made it. So you on TRL. Yeah. See you on TRL.

And then when everyone left, we played our next show and there was my parents. Yeah. And no one's there. And then we were like, wait a minute. I wish musicians now would rehearse a song for two years before it comes. out. I mean, our day job,

we did that. You have to write, you have to, now you write and sometimes even record the day. Right. That's interesting. And what you learn from,

oh, you know what? We should actually extend this part or shorten this part. Structure. It took you two years to write the wire. It didn't take you. It was the first song you knew

had a seed. Yes. It took you two years to write that song if you're being totally honest about that. Totally. For sure. No, there were many songs before the wire. Let's be honest that we're not great.

But we always kept the wire very close to our hearts because we kind of knew that there was something there. But I think that really good. I mean, to your point, I think the thing that really helped us was that we loved being openers. We were like all about opening. We love playing live. We love like.

But I think it helped us so much the fact that we were just, you know, playing for five years in L.A. to know one. It really once it came time for us to like, for later. to come and see us. We were, I would say like a really great live band because we did do all of that kind of. Woodshedding. Woodshedding. 10,000 hours. Was getting recognized that the Brits or the NME awards, was that the moment where you felt like you had made it? I don't know if we feel like that. I think that it was getting a Brit was amazing because we got to thank the UK. Yeah.

Like formally. Yeah. I mean, I think we, every time we go to the UK, that feels like, I mean, a second home is like too little a word. Like, it is such a pivotal point. Like, we, I would not be sitting here today without the loving embrace of the UK. And I say every time we play in the UK, I'm like, thank you for like embracing us. Because it was a really long journey to get there. So getting a Brit was the first time I could just fully thank everyone that had ever come.

come to our shows and also, you know, thank the amazing collaborators that we had on Women and Music Part 3. And like, it was just such a, it was a huge honor to be honored in a place that I wasn't born in. Like, and that, that journey had brought me there and it was the biggest roller coaster of my life. So it was very nice to have that. Yeah.

We, we, we, we, we, we, our, our listeners love hearing stories about songs. Okay. But I don't think of you. guys as a song band. I think of you as an album band. Oh, thank you. I'll take it. Which is the first time that I've said that.

Oh, wow. On this thing. So there you go. So I'm actually going to list. I'm going to mention the albums. And I want to hear a story about the album that meant something to you. So tell me a story about Days Are Gone. Oh, my God.

Days are Gone? Oldest child. I know, the oldest child. I mean, we, I think when I think about Days are Gone, First of all, we were flying by the seat of our pants. Like, by the time that Forever EP had come out and then we had, Don't Save Me, come out. And it was just, we were making songs and putting them out as it was happening. Like, everything was just happening so fast.

Like, it felt like it took us, I mean, it did, took us seven years to get to that point. And then we had no time. Like, it was like, what is happening? And we were collaborating with people in the UK. And we were. We actually had three. I guess officially like three different producers on that album we had Ludwig

who we did the first EP with and then once we started making once we got signed and then the UK also the thing about UK labels is they want singles really fast so it's like we okay great you just got signed we need another song in two months and we were like we were like oh my god took us two years already

yeah well at that point we had I mean I will say we were lucky that we kind of had a stockpile of songs you know, that we had been working on for, yeah, like those five to seven years. So, so then there was, yeah, I was like, you need to make a song tomorrow. And I remember really being a fan of James Ford at the time. I know Florence had just come out with all of her music that he had produced. And they were like, who would you want to work with? And we were like, James Ford?

Can you get James Ford on the horn? And he came to L.A. We went to Sunset Sound. We had two days. And again, this was after like painstakingly. working on our EP with Ludwig for like four months. And it was kind of like, okay, great. Like go.

And I was like, okay, I've never recorded at Sunset Sound. Can we go into the Prince Room? Yeah. And they're like, sure. Like you have two days. We were like, okay. And I will say like it was he, James was like so amazing just coming in and really like collaborating with us in a meaning, such a meaningful way.

And we like knocked out, don't save me in two days, which at the time was crazy. but I was just like, okay, well, we have to do this. So we did that really quickly. And then it was falling. Then it was falling. So then at the same time, since James lived in the UK, the label was also asking us, like, what other producers do you want to work with? And at the time, I remember, yeah, climax.

It just came out, that song, the Usher song with Diplo. And every time a song. a song that I love comes out immediately in the credits like who did this what is this this is the coolest shit of all time and I remember seeing this name ariel rexhide and I was like huh I wonder that's like such an interesting name like I wonder like who this guy is and then a couple months later um this casma combs album came out and loved it immediately looked up who it was and then it was like producer areiel Rekshide. And I was like, the same guy who did Casmecones is like, I did Usher. Like, you know, and I, I think growing up, we just love all types of music. Like, we love pop.

You know, like, it just doesn't matter what it is. But we like just love a whole different array of music. And I think, you know, our references really span. You like, I don't know. Everything. Everything. So seeing this name. In this Bulgarian music, it would kind of rammed the gamut. Seeing this name, I was like, who is this guy? It turned out he's a valley guy. You know. Grew in the valley.

Grew in the valley. Had a studio in Burbank. And it was like, I was like, I want to meet this guy. And we wanted to the studio in Burbank with him. And the like, we just really hit it off musically. And yeah. So, yeah, we finished the album. Yeah.

And so with, yeah, like when I think of, I think the thing, we just had our 10 year anniversary of days are gone, which is crazy. I think like the biggest compliment I've seen sometimes when people write about it is that like it is so cohesive? Because at the time I was like, is this crazy? Like, you know, I loved records like the strokes, you know, only produced by Gordon Raphael, like one person. I remember being in my head like, is this going to be cohesive?

And I really do think like listening to it, we had, I mean, we were, we were tough. Like I was, we were very hyper-focused when it came to the production. And I do feel like you can really hear us on that. And everyone that we worked with was so nice. Because we were also young. And we were like, we don't like that. Like we were very intense. I think what's interesting is even when you have the songs that you featured on,

which I can't think of many bands that have featured on anybody else's songs, let alone the discography of songs that you guys are just the feature on. But those seem like they belong in the Hym catalog. When you are writing with. with other or performing with other artists, how active are you in the decisions of those recordings? Like which, I mean, it kind of runs the gamut. Like, you know, like which ones?

I'm curious. I mean, it's, it's even, even when it's like ASAP Rocky, Kit Cutty and maybe it's because. That was amazing. That was amazing. He was one of, he was like one of the first artists to reach out to us after like our EP came out. We were like such huge fans.

We were like, and he was like, come to the studio this weekend. I'm going to be at East West. We were like, never been here. We never been to East West. Yeah. We were like, okay, great. So I'll never forget rolling up. And he basically was just like, I have this track.

And it was Red Eye. And so basically he had that chorus, but the verses were free. And we were like, he was like, do you want to write on it? We were like, okay. I've never been more nervous in my life. Like literally like the biggest beat of sweat. It was really the size of my head. It was really inspiring because.

essentially like the first melody that we came up with, he was like that. We were like, that. And we recorded it within an hour and then it was done. And for us, after four months. It was really like a lesson. And like sometimes you just don't have to do. It's right. It took a while to record the next,

or at least to release the next album. So here you have this rush to get songs. Tell me a story behind something to tell you. Well, we were touring. We toured days are gone a lot. I mean, we did almost, almost 10, like, UK tour. We just kept going around and around and around and around. How do your voices hold out?

Oh, we don't party. I mean, now I think we're a little bit better. Literally, a lot of steroid shots. Steroids in prednisone. But we were, even from the very beginning of us touring, like we always wanted, we used our music to get on tour. Like, that was like what we wanted to do. our goal was always to play live.

So when it came to us playing live, we were so insanely focused. Like, we just wanted, we knew that, like, if our voices went, that's an issue. So we didn't party. We didn't do anything. We would play the show.

We would, like, be taking an insane amount of echinacea, like, like, an insane power by echinacea. Like, when we knew we had a day off. No, we took it very seriously, but yeah. We took it extremely seriously. We don't really do that now. When you release the second album, you know, are you starting to feel like success is easy?

No. Is success ever, isn't it? No. I think the thing that was just so great about that album, when I think about Want You Back, and just the crazy chaos of that music video was like the funny, it was like really just set us up on the most, we work well in chaos. I had a therapist. Shout out to my therapist that told me that we work, like, you're comfortable in chaos.

Like when things are not chaotic is when you start getting antsy. You start making chaos. Yeah. Like I focus the most when chaos is happening around us. And I'll just never. Like shout out to Jake Schreier. Go see Thunderbolts. He just directed Thunderbolts.

But Jake Schreier directed our first music video for that era. And as a Valley Girl, like, what do you dream about? You dream about shutting down Ventura Boulevard. That is like your dream. Tom Petty. Like Ventura. And we always have this dream of like, can we shut down Ventura Boulevard? Not the whole thing, obviously.

It's large. But we wanted to, in Jake's mind, we were like, oh, we're going to do this video where you're going to be driving down Ventura Boulevard. When the B kicks in, you're going to do donuts on the Ventura Boulevard. And we got like a stunt driver and we had the whole thing ready to go. And Jake is like, okay, we're going to test out this rig to. you know, because there was a driver on the outside. It looked like we were driving.

We weren't driving movie magic. And the driver ended up crashing the car. On the test. And the first test, we were there for 10 minutes. And this rig, I guess, was, it's called a biscuit rig, had broken. I guess there was only one in America. And we were like, Jake, what do we do? And he was like, we don't have a video.

So then why you back came out. And then basically we go to play shows. The song came out without a music video. Without a music video. And I mean, talking about making behind the music, like we were making the video fans as well. Like we've loved the art of making music videos. And we're like, we're not going to have a music video for our first song back. We go play shows.

We're in New York. Jake calls us and is like, the city of the valley is okay with you shutting down Ventura Boulevard for one more day. And he was like, we were like, we're not doing a car because like the car, it's unsafe. And we can't. This has to be the video. And we were like, what is safer than driving walking? So we were like, let's just walk. And it bloomed to this whole thing of Hymn, walking.

But it was such a chaotic start. It was such a chaotic start. But at the end of the day, like, when I look at that video, it was like such a beautiful moment. We got to, like, do the dream of shutting down Ventura Boulevard. And it was such a great. We used to play a Ventura Boulevard. I know. We used to play on Ventura Boulevard.

Have you been to the Sherman Oaks Street Fair? Not yet. We actually ended the video exactly where we played with Rockenheim because they shut down Ventura Boulevard for the Sherman Oaks Street Fair. And it was wild that where we ended the music video was where we played when I was like five. That's beautiful. Tell me about, I mean, women in music part three is so good. I mean, I'm very familiar with the catalog, which I'm excited about. I quit, which I've now listened to.

But women in music part three, tell me something about it. No, I mean, women in music part three, I mean, that was, it was such an important record for us. I think we were coming off, again, like our two, like two albums where we toured so much. And I think one really cool thing about the start of that album was I was playing around a lot. I am like a staunch, like, user of garage band. that's actually talking about like songwriting that's kind of what I feel like that's how we really started becoming better at songwriting was utilizing garage band because it just blew my mind before that we were just writing on you know like a little tape we would just record on

acoustic guitars yes because I'm I'm very superstitious about it on every album there is at least there's many garage band still I'm just kind of superstitious about it so I just always run on garage band. I quit starts with a song that feels like it's Rolling Stones meets, like, obviously there's the George Michael reference, you know, there's, you've got Tom Petty, Cheryl Crow, like, all these like, these like seemingly exciting, rich influences. Every one of your albums has a direction, which is. is also a compliment.

Thank you. When you get to you, I quit. You have another, this, it feels like it's, it's more, I don't want to say like more organic than women in music part three. But there's a, it seems like there's like a different choice of tones and whatnot. When you go into this album, how did you decide on the musical direction or is it something that just happens? It's just kind of happens.

I think the song kind of dictates. like what it will sound like. I mean, again, like we, we, we, we, we were inspired by so many different things. We love lots of different references. But I mean, that's such a thank you. She's taking a back. I'm taking it in. I'm taking it in.

Let's talk about relationships. Yeah. You know, and, you know, don't be wrong as now. Sorry, down to be wrong as now that both of them are out. Yeah. But for both relationships and. down to be wrong, the videos have this amazing cinematic quality and you've cast really handsome actors.

How involved in the videos are you? I will say the most. I mean, I think one thing about us and honestly I really saw it a lot with Julian on it. Like anything you see, like, we're very heavily involved in. I think that's just. Well, we've always been that way. I mean, I think the thing that as siblings, starting with Haim, we were such an extreme, like, brick wall when it came to other people's opinions.

The thing that I always think about is, like, when I hold all of our albums, there is not one part of every album that we've done that wasn't a decision by us. I love every single album that we have done because it was all of our decisions. Like there were times on days we were gone where like you're late, we wrote a song, our label liked it. We hated it. They were like, you gotta put it on the album. And we were like, no.

Honestly, having, I was thinking about it now, I was like a very spicy 21 year old. I was like going up against these like big label heads being like, we're not doing it. Like, I'm not putting this on the album. And there was a lot of pressure. and I'm so happy that we stood our ground because that Days Are Gone is a perfect album for all of us. And so there is no getting through this, you know. We're very lucky that we have three of us. There's three of us kind of.

And we also grew up with so like, I mean, again, behind the music, it was like all these things of like, I hope that one day I can do this. Like this would be amazing if I shot a music video. And also just we've learned so much along the way. I mean, we've worked, we've collaborated with the greatest director on the planet, Paul Thomas Anderson, who is still to this day, don't know how, like, thank the gods that he came into our lives. But he taught us so much about what that, that you don't have to do so much. You can do long shots.

You can hold people's attentions. Yeah. Especially with these two music videos that came out. I mean, we worked with two, I mean, Bradley and Pablo did, Don't be wrong. Cammy. Summer's High. She's incredible. She's incredible.

And they have such amazing eyes. But the thing that was great about both of them is they were extremely collaborative. And they were extremely open to our. We kind of can't really work with people. I kind of can't work with anyone who, who isn't just very collaborative. Of course. Or like, well, up for it. Well, we've, says three sisters who've survived.

Yeah. It's all about collaboration. It's a family affair. We're going to go to our last segment, which is I'm going to list five things and just tell me, you know, tell me a story about these people. It could be a one sentence thing. But let's start with Ludwig. Yes. A sentence about Ludwig?

Sure. Oh, my gosh. Like, impossible. Started everything for us. Like, honestly, like, started everything. And we would not be here without a greatest person ever and want him to win every single Oscar on the planet. Tell me about Saturday Night Live. Changed everything.

I mean, I feel like everything changed everything, but biggest honor of all time. And the fact that we've got to play it twice is amazing. And put this in a sketch. Yeah. Please, we love. We stand. And then tell me about the echo.

Oh, my God. The echo. The echo, honestly, played it today. Played it to death. You would say you played it today? No, no, no. I said we'd play it today. Oh, we'd play it today.

Yeah, we're sorry. I'm also getting over a cold. But no, we would, I mean, if we, we would play the Echo, like. Yeah, I mean, really just, like, really cut our teeth. Yeah, cut our teeth at the Echo. This is why I'm asking that. Why? Did you come to our show with The Echo?

No, you opened for my band, Rebecca. We did? Wait, when? Wait, what's your band? When? And I have the past. Stop. No way.

We want band. Oh, my God. Stop. I remember this poster. Wait, why does it have the year? It was like 2012. No, no, it doesn't know. Oh my God, the buzz bands LA.

Yeah. Oh my God. That's my band. Oh my God. And I gotta say, I gotta say that, um, uh, I remember you guys playing and be like, this is amazing. Aw. Because you don't forget three sisters who, uh, are playing rock music and it was so cool.

Aw, thank you. But this is... I'm dying. Can I have that? I remember that. No, we can't take it. Well, I was going to say you guys should decide. I remember that night.

I would love to decide. I want to, I want to frame it. Wait, the fact that also it's so pristine, like, do you have like an amazing... I do. So, here, I also... Yeah, how did you get?

You just saved it? Well, I have a, uh, I have a box of all of the glacier hiking, uh, posters that is like that. I don't have, like, that much stuff. Right. Any more? I did, yeah. Well, you have one less thing now because I'm taking it.

Yeah. I mean, that is, oh, that is amazing. I remember. That poster was like a blazoned in my mind. That poster was such a big deal. Was that right before Southway? I have to look at the years. The weird thing is like you remember in the L.A. world, like, they're so I open for icons.

I mean, but I remember, you know, one Republican and Glacier and we used to play together a lot. Yeah. I remember, you know, Ray LaMontaine opened for my band. And we would go and play. How many times did we tour and play with a million people? I just didn't. This was right around when I'm starting to think, like, oh, I could probably start having,

I think it's earlier than 2011. Something. It was around that, yeah. I think it might be earlier than that. Because I started getting some cuts that mattered for other people. And I was like, oh, this is interesting. I should probably write me. music for other people.

Like, I've sold, you know, 10, 20,000 albums as an artist. And I've sold, you know. Yeah. I was selling, certainly to sell millions of songs as a writer. I was like, I, you know, I like being in a band. But, you know, you walk through open doors. We should do a reunion of this show. We should go to the echo and do a reunion.

I wasn't kidding. I would play the echo. Yeah. Now. I love the echo. I'll just come on stage with the shaker and. Please come. What's so crazy about us is it's like $8 at the door, $5.5 in RPC.

Like, I think I could beg our friends. Yeah. Yeah. And like, like, drink tickets. $5.5. Yeah. We used to pay our friends to come to our shows. Like, we would say like, you're on the list, but we would just go to the box office

and be like, we're just going to pay for all 20 tickets. No, and then drink tickets. And then we would get drinks. My birthdays were always around shows. So that way I could be like, well, I'm just come here. And then I could use. I could use like the... That's a good loophole.

That's a really good loophole. Wow. Guys, thank you for doing this. You know, you guys are welcome on here anytime. Oh, thank you. It's so much. It's so much fun. It's a really cool thing when you can literally watch somebody from that to having the conversations

we just had. I really, I have a daughter now. I'm watching how women who are. successful do it. And I would be honored to have my daughter have the kind of existence you guys have had because I think you guys are doing it with such class, the way you're treating the music industry and the way you treat your peers. Like people talk so kindly of you guys because you've been so consistent.

So I really do appreciate you guys. And it's been fun watching you since that show. That's crazy. Wow. All right. I will appreciate you guys. Thank you so much for having us. We hope you enjoyed this episode.

It was produced by me and Joe London in association with Mega House Music Group. If you like this episode, go give us a rating at wherever you listen to your podcast. And make sure to follow us at And The Writer is on all your socials. We'll see you next week.