And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan - Ep. 30: Rhett Akins

Episode Date: November 7, 2017

This writer has not only been a successful solo artist, with his #1 hit “Don’t Get Me Started” but has also written chart toppers for some of country music’s biggest names. He’s had 28 #1 singles (and counting), was named the #4 Billboard Country Songwriter, and has earned BMI’s Songwriter of the Year award twice. He co-wrote Blake Shelton’s “Honey Bee,” which became the highest selling digital debut by a country male solo artist. He’s won six CMA Triple Play Awards (presented to a songwriter who has penned three #1 singles in 12 months) and this year it was announced that he’s had at least one song in the Country Airplay charts every week for the past seven years straight. And The Writer Is… Rhett Akins!  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey guys, this is, and the writer is, and I'm your host, Ross Golan. I've written with hundreds of artists and writers over the years, and my favorite part of each session is the first hour when we catch up about life, the industry, politics, composition, whatever. So this is a journey of learning why people write songs, how people write songs, and most importantly, who the people are who write the songs. I'm producing this with the Great Joe London, big deal music publishing and mega house music management if you want to listen to the songs we

discuss in this podcast follow us on our socials find out about special events or buy some of our merchandise go to our website www. www.andthe writer is.com oh and if you enjoy this podcast please rate us on iTunes or whatever your preferred podcast listening site is we really appreciate that effort this week we are featuring five country music hitmakers in honor of the CMA Awards. The biggest stars are coming together on one stage where the heart of country music beats stronger than ever. Watch as Brad Paisley and Carrie Underwood host the 51st annual CMA Awards this Wednesday

at 8 o'clock, 7 o'clock Central on ABC. See powerful collaborations by Kelsey Ballerini and Reba McIntyre, Brad Paisley and Kane Brown. Marin Morris and Nile Horn and more. It's country's Night to Shine with unforgettable performances and the best of the best honored in several categories. For more information, visit cMAwards.com. Today's guest on CMA Week is pretty exciting.

Why? Because he is the father of yesterday's guest. How awesome is that? Let me just say if you aren't familiar with this next songwriter, you've probably been living under a rock. He's a country music legend. He has a ton of number one hits. I could go through the list, but we're going to talk about it all in this interview.

So, without further ado, here is, Ann the Writer is featuring Ret Aiken. Welcome to And The Writer is. I am your host, Ross Golan. This week's artist writer has written 26, 27 number one songs, has won the CMA Triple Play Award five times, BMI Songwriter the Year twice, and is the father of a country rock star. His solo career brought him fame and his writing career made him a legend.

From Georgia, this singer has been in the spotlight for over 20 years and hasn't slowed down one bit. And the writer is, one of the greatest living country writers, Red Aiken's. What's up, dude? How's that for an intro? I need you for all my... Everything that I do. Every session.

When I go to dinner, I need you to be like, ladies and gentlemen. Exactly. The guy who deserves free meals for life. Be like, here's a reservation. Let me tell you about them. So here's a six degrees of separation. My first BMI Award is a country BMI Award.

And you won Songwriter of the Year that year. Awesome. It was 2014. Compass for Lady Annabelle. Oh, yes, yes. And you gave a speech where you said that the year before you hadn't won any awards. That's right. And then you won Songwriter of the Year.

and it was sort of a shout out to the people who were sitting in the audience who weren't winning awards and this year I won songwriter of the year for BMI Pop. And I took that and that was my you know social media tweet

or whatever was just basically saying that you know for all the people who were out there who are about to kill it and who you know for years I wish I would have won one award. Yeah do I get co-clublishing on your speech? Yeah absolutely man. But you should know that, you know, that was, that really impacted me as a writer, was just listening to you talking.

I had just gotten into writing in Nashville, but I just, you know. Oh, thanks, man. Yeah, I really meant that because, I mean, I've sat at those awards many years and not gotten an award. And then it's kind of embarrassing on the years that you do win a lot and you see all your friends and people that you curate with often, you know, sitting in the crowd and don't have anything. And you know, and this business is so easy to get frustrated. Like, we have our wins, but it seems like our, when we do win, it lasts very short time.

And our, like, so-called failures seem to last forever. And you're like, yeah, I'm writing all the time and not getting any cuts. And that guy's getting everything. And it's like the moment that you're ready to quit is when you could be right there on the tip of the iceberg of this thing just blowing up. You know, so I guess I was just trying to encourage the people because I'd been in their shoes. and I actually was the year before. I didn't win a single award the year before. And then the next year, I won seven.

And it was just like, if this is your dream, you can't move to this town just to try to get rich or famous. If that was my goal, I would have left town in 1999. You know, it's like, you got to love this. It has to be in your, it's just got to, I mean, if you don't pick up a guitar or play a piano or write a lyric or something every day, then you, then you,

you don't love it. You know what I mean? It's just something that you don't even have to try to do. It's something that you want to do. Like there's never a time when I walk in my bedroom and don't pick up my guitar, even if it's for only two minutes. Wow. And I think that the people who really, really, really, really, really love music and this is what they were meant to do, will stick it out regardless of how many awards they get, don't get, how many years it takes, how much money they make or don't make. Because it's something you can't turn off. Like, I don't think we choose music. I think it chooses you from an early age and you just can't get you can't escape it what age did it choose you i mean you're from georgia i'm from georgia and uh i was lucky that you know i didn't have parents or

uncles or aunts that only listen to one style of music um what were they listening to my uncles were hippies they were 17 18 and 69 70 71 so when i was with them it was crosbie stills and nash led zeppelin almond brothers bob dillon um you know all the hippie music woodstock music my mom was major motown She grew up in the 60s. She actually saw the Beatles in 1964. Beatles fanatic, Elvis fanatic, Motown fanatic. Did they play music? My mom played piano.

My granddaddy played piano. We had a lot of musicians in our family, but nobody's serious. It was in church or just sitting around the house. So one minute, like I said, I was listening to the rock music of the early 70s. When I was at my grandparents' house, we watched He-Ha'all every Saturday. night and they were into, you know, Porter Wagner and Dolly Parton and Merle Haggard and things like that. And then I'd go to school and

meet friends. And I remember I wrapped the entire rapper's delight in 1980 to the whole school when I was in fifth grade. No way. Because we'd go roller skating all the time. Skating rinks were the big thing when I was 10, 11 years old. And obviously they didn't play country music or much rock music. It was all cool in the gang and, you know, pop songs, Michael Jackson and Madonna and things like that. So,

I literally just soaked in every ounce of music. I was never like, oh, I don't like that because it's rap or I don't like that because it's rock. If it's good, it's good to me. Did you want to do, I mean, what age were you like, yeah, I should actually start writing my own raps or my own country? Well, I started writing songs by at least 10 or 11, and for some reason, they were all in an English accent. What? Yeah, all my songs were like sex pistols. the clash.

And I think it's because, I remember my mom... What's your first song called? My first song was called Long Live the Queen. Oh, that's pretty British. Very British. And I think it's because during that time, Prince Charles and Princess Diana were getting married. And it was the biggest thing in America.

Like, we actually woke up at 5 o'clock in the morning to watch the wedding broadcast from London. And I guess I was just so... I don't know what it was about the English accents in that music, but I just started writing. and like semi-punk, new wave, you know, like The Cure, things like that were like my first songs. No, I didn't because nobody could play anything. I mean, my brother played his drum set was pillows in the bed.

Like I'd play my acoustic guitar. We made an album, we made a cassette tape when I was like 12, and my brother actually played his pillows in the bed as the drums, and I played guitar. And all of those songs we sung in an English accent, which is, they were like Saturday Night Live skits. They were so terrible. and so dumb.

Can you still sing it? Yeah, it was the first. I remember walking down the road on our farm singing this song. It was like, we're living in the slums down, but everyone's appi. Not happy, it's got to be happy.

We're gigging with the chums and everyone's appay. And what's so funny is that Thomas Wrette and I literally wrote, we're writing, we started this band called The Pints, and we're writing English songs right now, like early 80s,

Like currently. Currently right now. Thomas Rat and I, a young songwriter named Josh Kerr. We did this as a joke in Palm Springs on a writer's retreat. We just went on. So I've just been like from the get-go, a music fanatic, but where I'm from, you got to, like, there was no YouTube, there was no American Idol. There was no way in the world to become a singer. Right. So I grew up in a town that was, we have the winningest high school football team ever in America. You can Google it right now. It'll say Val Doste Georgia.

For real? Winning his high school. Did you play? Yeah. What did you play? Quarterback. And so my whole life was the only dream that you could attain where I was from was being a football star. Being a singer was not even in the cards.

Like going pro kind of thing? Yeah, go to college, go pro, whatever. I mean, you could, but the thing is, our high school athletes were more, we thought they were more famous than Terry Bradshaw or Joe Namath or any of the stars, Joe Montana. Like, yeah, they're cool. but what about the quarterback for our high school? He's the greatest thing that ever lived like.

You would be on the front page of the newspaper over any murder or theft or wreck that happened in town. The front page of the newspaper was the football team. So that was a dream that I could pursue. Playing guitar and writing songs were something that me and my brothers did in our bedroom. Did you into playing football in college? Yeah, I went to the University of Georgia.

And you played football at? Yes. Wow. I played my freshman year. and then Thomas Rat came along and that kind of ended my football career. But I would take my guitar to football camp. Like we would spend the night at the school for two weeks in the summer

and we practiced like we were in the Marine Corps. It was the worst. The coaches nowadays would get fired if they did what we did back in high school. It was like no water breaks. Right, everyone would die of dehydration. Yeah, I mean you would be fired in a heartbeat if it was the 80s when I played.

But that was the only dream you could attain and so everything else was just, you just watch MTV and Headbanger's Ball and go, God, it wouldn't be cool to be Eddie Van Halen? Like, he's got to be from Mars or something. Those people were like, were literally gods to us. They were unattainable. Nowadays you could tweet Eddie Van Halen,

and he might tweet you back. Right. There's absolutely no chance in the world that you could ever meet Eddie Van Halen or Hank Williams Jr. Or, you know, Merrill Haggard, or any of those people. So they were gods to us.

and now I've met most of my heroes, and it's all I can do not to attack them. Which one were your main heroes? Mick Jagger's my all-time hero. You met him? I met him last year. Did you tell him that he was in the old-time? It was total Chris Farley.

Really? Like if you've seen the Saturday Night Live skits of Chris Farley, I totally Chris Farleyed Mick, the drummer for Def Leopard. There's been a bunch of guys. I didn't go quite as far as Chris Farley, but it's like, remember when you're in a Rolling Stones? That was awesome.

Yeah, exactly. Like, I think, and then there, obviously there's stars now, Beyonce, Justin Timberlake, Justin Bieber. I mean, there's still big stars that kids freak out over. I don't think that kids freak out over athletes or stars like we did as kids because they're too accessible now. You see them on TV all the time. Did you play with people who later became, you know,

household names as far as football players? When I played at Georgia, Rodney Hampton went to the giant, Bill Goldberg played pro football for a while and became one of the biggest professional wrestlers ever. That's so crazy. Yeah. And so I guess my point was, Kiss was one of my, when I got my first Kiss album and opened it up and saw the stage on fire and Jean Splittin' Splitting Blood.

And I was like, I have to figure out a way to do this somehow, but I just don't, there's no way to do this. but I've always had that dream in the back of my head that I was going to be a rock star. So you bring your guitar to football camp and you're writing songs like in between passing out. Yeah, yeah, you know, we take a shower and we go back to the,

we slept in the lunchroom on mattresses that ran a semi-truck all year long. And we'd sit there and I'd play Leonard Skinner or Sweet Home Alabama, you know, I'd play Hank Williams Jr. I would play whatever I could play on the guitar. Were you ever playing any of your own stuff for people or were you kind of keeping that?

Probably not, probably because those songs were just dumb. I mean, they weren't like real... When do you start writing songs, even for yourself? It's a weirdly, my first songs are awful. High school. When you're finally, like, just over the moon for some girl, that's when the songs start pouring out. I used to work in the summertime. Some football players would work at the high school, and we would, like, mow the field and paint classrooms and things like that. And it was just, you know, from 7 a.m. until 7 at night, you're out there pushing a lawn more in 110 degree heat.

there's nothing to do, and another thing is there's no cell phones. So the last time you talked to that girl was last night on the phone, or maybe two days ago, and you she hasn't called, and you called her and her mom said she wasn't there, you're like, dying. You're thinking about this girl nonstop. You can't see what she's doing on Instagram. You can't text her. Like, I may never talk to this girl again.

I don't know. It really brings, I think back in those days, the pining for people, the longing, the missing was way more. real than it is today. Because you get in a fight with the girlfriend now, you text her as soon as she drives out of the house. You're like, come back. What happened? You know, and she texts you back, and it's an all-night text fest. You know, back then it was like you either got in a fight or you kissed the girl good night and you didn't see her again for three days. And you couldn't talk to her unless she happened to pick up the phone or you drove by our house and she was there. So I think that's what really inspired me to start writing more real songs. Do you find yourself writing about

with that emotion more than the motion you deal with today? Do you tend to go back to like... Oh, yeah, all our songs go back to high school because that's when it was fresh. That's when the fire was hot. You know what I mean? It's like now I'm 47. It's like I've written every love song, breakup song,

cheating song, drinking song. It's like I've written every subject matter that there is to write. But back in those days, this was the first time you ever poured your thoughts out onto a sheet of paper. It was way more exciting and I think emotional and you were living at the time.

Now I don't really live those, you know, I don't live that anymore. Right. So you have Thomas after freshman year of college. How, I know that he moves to Nashville when he's five. So what happens within the five years from freshman year of college to moving to Nashville? I thought my life is over. I mean, I don't know if you remember the Kenny Chesney song called There Goes My Life. Yeah.

Where the guy has a kid and he's like, my life's ruined. and then later on the kid moves off and he's like there goes my life you know my everything i was dating his mom we were she was my girlfriend she got pregnant uh like in the summer of 89 and you know i'm playing football at georgia and blah blah and next thing you know my whole life of football since i was six from the winning as high school ever like my dreams of being you know tom brady or whatever are like this is not happening anymore i'm going back home and i'm driving a gas truck working for my dad like this is like life just got real like real quick yeah so yeah and so during that time period um i guess because there was no more football i guess i got really used to to to um i guess adulation

like you know it was like i said you go up you're used to being on the cover of the nithgow like i did and it and all the only thing that people talk about is football it's like Friday night lights if you've ever seen that movie or that miniseries it's the only thing people talk about They talk about it at breakfast, lunch, supper, they go to church and pray about it. It's football, football, football. My dad couldn't go down the street without somebody going, we think about that game Friday night. You know, how's Rett doing? How's his arm feeling?

You know, it was like, these are these people's life. And now suddenly, I mean, I guess I got too used to it. And it's like, now I'm driving a gas truck from my dad and about to have a kid. I'm 19 years old, you know? You moved, you did go move back home. Yeah, we moved back home, yeah. And your girlfriend came to, oh, was your girlfriend from? George, we're from the same town, yeah.

Oh, okay. We went to Georgia together. And so we came back home from the summer, and then we got married that summer. And so here I am. Now I'm working. I went from 19 years old too. I went from what's Red doing? How's he doing it?

How's he doing it? How's he doing a kid? You know, what's he doing now? He's driving a gas truck for his dad. And so that was a really, really, really. Now that I look back on it, I see all the ways God did things in my life that I didn't know back then. You know, it was like he saw something that he said, we got to put the brakes on this and we're taking a,

left turn right here. Yeah, I mean, how even if you're the most successful football player, you're not playing for 20 plus years. Right. And you can be the most successful artist, writer, and you can work for 20 plus years. So obviously, you know. Yeah, I think it all worked out. But how do you go from a gas drive to Nashville?

So I'm driving, you know, I'd be there at 630 in the morning, and I had my little route that I knew I had to go to this farm or this place. and deliver a bunch of diesel fuel to this tobacco farm or whatever. And I'm in that truck. It's just like pushing that lawnmower. I'm in my truck just driving for hours and hours and hours. And I didn't have a radio. That truck did not have a radio or air conditioner in it.

And so I'm bored out of my mind, and all I'm doing is writing lyrics down on the back of the tickets, you know, that we would write up when I deliver the gas. So that really propelled my songwriting. I started writing like mad. And then I randomly ran into a buddy from high school who played guitar. and we said we ought to get together and just start playing around town this is for fun so we got together and started playing like at the holiday inn lounge or frat parties or it could be a

restaurant that had a deck and we'd be in the corner you know playing the latest songs and every now and then I'd slip one of mine in and so I started playing three nights a week and you know when you're from a small town and nobody else can play music they think you're the greatest you know they're like dude man you're better than garth brooks you're you're you know at this point you were thinking i'm going to you're no longer writing british pop songs no no no no no i'm writing country songs right yeah and so somewhere in there you you start yeah because country yeah it was like at that time and i'd always i mean hank williams junior was my hero he's the one that really made me want to write songs but around 88 89 garth brooks alan jacks and clint black Travis trit like this huge explosion

happened massive in country music um and, you know, I was hearing these songs on the radio and watching them on the videos. And, you know, I really started writing country songs. And everybody at home was like, I'm telling you, man, your songs were as good as Alan Jackson, which obviously they were not. But they thought they were. And after about two years, I just got sick of hearing people say, I need to do this, I need to do this. And so we just packed up and moved to Nashville.

Dude, what did your wife say when you said? She was like, I'm going to go to, we should go to Nashville. I should do something more stable, like become an artist. Right, yeah, that was, yeah, everybody was shocked. They're like, you're going to move to Nashville and try to be a singer. So they all tell you, they all tell you, oh, you're better than Alan Jackson. You're better than Greg Brooks. And then you see, after you move, you're like, what are you talking about?

You're not better than Alan Jackson. We were just telling you that to make you feel good. Yeah, because it's like I said, there was no YouTube. There was no, there was no way to get there. There was no map. Had you recorded anything at this part? I think, yeah, I met this one kid that had a little recording studio, and I did record one song. And so, you know, my granddad was one of my biggest, he was my hero, and he was a huge dreamer.

My granddad believed one plus one equaled one billion. My granddad was just like, no, it doesn't matter what you want to do, you can do it. And he was my biggest supporter, and he said, you won't do this? I said, I mean, yeah, but I mean, how? the world. I don't know what to do. And he said, he said, well, I called my lawyer today and asked him if he knew anybody in Nashville. And he knows an entertainment lawyer that he went to school with, and he said, they won't, y'all come to Nashville. I'm like, what? You know, my granddad just like, you didn't take no for an answer at all. And so we got in touch with this lawyer in Nashville,

and me and my granddad and his lawyer friend, we drove to Nashville one day and met with that lawyer, entertainment lawyer, and he also brought a songwriter along with him that he represented named John Gerard. And they threw me in this room, and they said, play us some songs. You know, so I played them some things that I had written. I played them. Some current songs that are out on the radio, and they were like, yeah, I mean, you know, you need work, and, you know, you're not there yet, but if this is what you want to do, come on. So we went back home and made the decision we were going to move to Nashville, and that's how it started. So you moved to Nashville, it's basically in 1995 or something.

No, we moved in the fall of 92. Thomas Ray was two. Oh, 92. He was two, yeah. So you move then, it only takes you three years to have number one songs. Yeah, it was crazy. So, I mean, as much as they were obviously supportive of you and your lawyer and John Gerard, right,

they obviously thought that you had talent, but it's one thing to be like you have talents, another thing to sort of see it through. what's a process of going from moving here and being, yeah, I moved to Nashville to all of a sudden. I moved to town and I just luckily met this guy named Jerry Smith who was wanting to start a co-venture with Sony publishing. And he found me and a girl named Terry Clark basically at the same time who ended up being

a big country star. And he took us to Sony music and we met with Paul Worley who went on to, you know, produce the Dixie Chicks and me and Lady Annabella and a million different artists. and he was a great session player. He took Terry and I over there and we played him our songs and he goes, why not? Let's do this. So we got a publishing deal

in 1993. And so I just started writing every day. They started booking me with everybody in town. So I'm writing with everybody. Were you done then thinking, oh, I meant I have to move back and drive a... Well, I made myself promise we'd move back by the time I was 25.

If you weren't... If something wasn't going on by 25. How old were you? I was 22. Oh, so that happened much faster than that. Yeah, so I was like, this is not happening my 25. And my first single came out a month

before I turned 25. So anyway, I was writing songs and singing them on demos and we were pitching them to artists. Mark Chestnut was on a new label called Deca, and Mark Wright was running the label, and we sent our songs to Mark Chestnut. And we got a call from Mark Wright and Frank Liddell,

who's a giant publisher now, and producer and said, we don't really hear these songs from Mark Chestnut, but we love the songs and we love the guy singing them. Who is that? So the next thing you know, I'll go over to Deca and hang out with Mark Cry. And then Paul Worley,

who's my publisher, all of a sudden becomes the head of the label at Sony. And so now I've got Sony want me, I got Deca want me. And it's one of those things where once somebody wants you, everybody wants you, whether they really want you or not,

they just don't want to miss out. You know what I mean? So it was like, next thing I know I have three or four record labels wanting to sign me in. Did you understand what was happening at the time? I didn't understand any contracts. I didn't understand what points were.

I didn't understand any of the legal jargon in the contracts. It was just, I'm getting a record deal, you know, like anybody. And I got a big advance, you know, what I thought was like 25 grand or something. I was like, can you believe we got $25,000? Like, this is happening, you know?

And then what was really cool is, I was kind of floating in between the labels. I didn't know which one I wanted to go to because I really liked everybody at all the labels. And I was talking to Bruce Hinton, the head of MCA, and he said, what's it going to take to get you? I mean, what is it? You want more money? What do you want? And I said, it would really be cool if Reba McIntyre and her husband manage me, you know?

And he was like, let me call him real quick. He just picks up the phone. And he calls Norville Blackstock and was like, hey, I got this kid, blah, blah. So I'd know Narva Narville a little bit and then a couple of weeks later Narville and Reba are driving Huntsville, Alabama

for their tour rehearsal and I get a call and Reba's on the phone and she's like, hey, Rhett, you want to work with us? You know what I mean? It was like everything just started rolling. Then I went on tour.

Yeah, I got out. That's so crazy. I mean, I've never been in front of an audience. I mean, I've played in front of like, yeah, you were doing like frat houses and stuff, but I never been with a whole. band and in our own amps and mics and 20,000 people. And the next thing you know, I'm opening for Reba McIntyre. Were you terribly nervous? I was like about to die. Like I was praying

backstage that this was a dream. Like I was, I wanted to not do this anymore. I was like, I'm going to die out there. Like, this is not going to happen. How long did it take before you felt like you weren't going to die? Two shows. I thought I was the baddest thing. Like, because Norville wanted me to do this thing where we walked. He said, okay, everybody's here to see Reba. some people are here to see Tracy Bird. Nobody's here to see you. How are you going to stand out? He wanted me to start at the back of the arena

and walk all the way to the front of the arena for my first song. And I was like, absolutely not. Hank Jr. wouldn't do that, and I'm not doing that. And that's stupid. He's like, all right, whatever. You'll be just like every other artist and fine. So the day of show, I decide I want to do it.

Let's just try it. Let's just go for it. So we did it and it worked. I mean, it was awesome. We did it for two nights, and I thought I had, I was like, I and Mick Jagger, like, I've got this whole thing figured out in two shows. So on the third show, we always walked, before the show, we always practiced, we did a practice run. I was like, what have we got to practice for? All I got to do is jump off the freaking box back there by the soundboard and walk up the thing.

I don't want to practice. They're like, okay, so we're in Chattanooga. And what we didn't realize, that the seating arrangements were different in Chattanooga than they were, the two nights before. There was owls that went all the way to the stage. On this night, the first five rows went all the way across. So if you went down the middle aisle, you couldn't get it. You were stuck at row five. So I jump off the box. You know, all the lights are shining on me. I'm singing half the verse or whatever, and I jump off the box. And instead of going around the side, like I had the two nights before, I decide I'm going to give the middle part of the crowd

their money's worth. And Red Aiken, who they've never heard of, is going to walk right beside you. And you can get slap his hand. And so I go hauling butt down the middle of the aisle and I hit aisle five and I'm stuck. I can't do anything. So by this time the second chorus is over. My road manager scrambling. They're grabbing me by the shirt and they're dragging. I have to walk all the way back to the soundboard by this time. Go around and then go down the side. By the time I get down the side, the song's over. I sang the entire first song was on the floor of the arena and Norville's freaking out and He's mad. And then for my one last big act,

I decided that I would stand in the chair on the corner right before you get to the stage. And I stood in the chair and it folded up on my leg. And so now I'm stuck. Now I'm stuck in the chair at the arena. And the guy has to move and they have to unfold it and I have to get out. Then I finally get on stage. And then I grab my guitar and the strap is hooked around the guitar stand. and I dragged my guitar stand all the way

to the microphone. And so when I got off stage that night, Narville was, he was pretty mad. We had a big talking. We had a big pow-wale. Yeah, it's probably good to be humbled that early on too, versus humbled like, you know. Yeah.

Or never. That's pretty funny. So what was that song that you were singing? Do you remember what songs? I think it was called, I think we started the set off with Old Dirt Road was the first song of the set. And that's the song I wrote about growing up back home.

When you were done with the first song, first album. It's obviously successful. You're getting critical acclaim. Everybody knows who are at this point. It's a different era in music too. It's like people are really digesting a full album of all the songs. It's like a whole other vibe. Yeah, there's no, there's no downloading and you can't get just one song. You get the whole album. And as a fan, you didn't want just one song. You wanted to listen to all. You can maybe buy the cassette single. I don't even know if they made 45s anymore at that point. But most of the time, it was you went and bought the full cassette or, and maybe, well, we did have some, it was, it was probably CDs by that point. It was cassettes and CDs.

Were you aiming for singles at the time? Because now when you write a song, you're like every song, your try name for a hit because that's how you get paid. Well, back then, albums were a little more important. So you knew, you know, you probably weren't going to get more than three. If you were lucky, you get four singles. So the other songs, I wouldn't call them filler songs, but they could be more personal. They could be not necessarily meant for the radio. As long as you had, you know, these three or four that you thought were going to be radio hits, the rest of the one song can be about your grandma or whatever. You know what I mean?

When you're in a session now and you're with an artist who wants to do that song, isn't it impossible to do that song now? Because you're just, well... You're talking about something that you know is probably not a hit? Yeah, you're just saying, well, let's, why don't we try to write that? You know, go write the song about your grandma, your own time. I'm going to go. Well, man, you know, I guess there's a part of you that's like,

monetarily, this is probably going to be a wasted day as far as money, as far as far as making money as a big hit. But I think if you're, I think that I try to, I try to establish relationships with the artists. I want to write with them as long as they have a career. And I think there's just days that you just got to write the song. Like Craig Wiseman told me one time, he said, we, we tried four or five different titles, and we kept going back to the first one, and I'd want to do something else.

And he said, he said, listen, we can, we can go around this pond all day long trying to catch fish. Why don't we just catch the one that's been under the boat the whole day? you know and so i think sometimes you just got to write the song because it's the song that wants to get written um i do that a lot of times uh you know obviously we're going in there trying to write a hit but this certain title is just hitting us all right you know we're going this probably won't be a single it might not be a big hit but i just want to write it and and thank goodness like this literally just happened twice i've written two songs in the last year that i knew without a doubt

nobody would record. I was just like, they're too country, they're too, I don't know what, they're just not, they just don't sound like a big radio hit to me. And probably, you know, music's changed and everything's more pop and up tempo and these are more slow songs.

But I just want to write them. It's just in my heart to write these songs. Justin Moore cut one and Blake Shelton just cut one last week. Because it's real. Yeah, because it's real. Yeah. So when I'm writing with an artist,

I just, I want to do what they want to do. You know, I tell them, it's your career. I'm here, I'm here to help you along, I'm here to help kind of steer the boat a little bit, but I want you to put as much of you into the song as you can, and I'll tell you when I think that line needs to be a little different, or this line could go better

into the course, but if this is what you want to write, let's do it, because I know I'm going to write with them again, we're going to have plenty of times to try to write, you know, some big radio smash. When did you decide, you know, the second album comes out also really successful? It's still a long time until you're like,

I'm going to not do the artist's career, anymore. Yeah, it started, you know what, I have to be honest, you know, with you and the listeners, as much as I thought I wanted to be a star and a big singer, I honestly, the only part of it I really loved was the writing of the songs and being on stage. I was not cut out to do the rest of it. I couldn't stand all, I mean, like, it was literally no time off. You're constantly doing a photo shoot, doing a video, interviews. I mean, it was, just like everybody telling you, I mean, there was way too many opinions going on. I wanted to do this, the manager wanted this, the label wanted this. And literally the only time I felt happy was

when I was on stage, because nobody could tell me what to do when I was up there and writing the songs. And so after like five or six years of constant, hey, you got to fly to Phoenix to be on the radio show in the morning. I'm like, well, can't I call them? Like, nope, you got to fly there because they're not playing your record. And if you go there and do a free show for them, then, you know, then there might start playing your record. And so it just, it kind of, and plus I had two kids at this point. And I was just like, burn out, to be honest with you.

I was tired, like me and my producer kind of part ways. And everything, after the second record, everything just started slowly but surely going downhill in all areas. I was, I didn't want to go on there. I mean, I'd have to go on the road for 30, 40 days at a time. You're calling Thomas Wrette. Hey, buddy, how'd you doing the game today? You know, would you do your homework? And again, no cell phones. This is truck stops. You know, you're pulling over at a truck stop in Montana. It's 20 degrees outside to call home to see how, you know,

see how his baseball game went or whatever. And it would just, I think I just got burnt out. And so after like 90, I made one more album and then about 99, the record label closed. Deca folded up. It was a part of MCA. They folded up, and I just decided, I'm just going to sit out for a while. I'm just going to go on the road. I'm just going to tour. I'm not going to make a record for a while, which was, you know, a bad decision for remaining irrelevant, but it's just what I wanted to do, you know. So for about the next five or six years, I basically just went out on the road and played.

Crazy. Did you bring the family? Yeah, Thomas Redd, I've got so many videos. We watched them this weekend. I've got videos of him on the tour bus with me at five years old. He was on stage with me from the time he was five. Do all three kids play music? I have two kids. Oh, I have two kids. Yeah, two kids.

No, my daughter doesn't. She can sing and play if she wanted to, but it's just never been anything that she just had to do. But Thomas Shred is the ham of all hands. If you watch these videos that I have, he can't stay out of the camera. Like, he's literally dancing, singing, playing guitar. There's one video where he set up the camera by himself,

and he stands in front of it playing a song. Like he just looked. Like he would always be like, Daddy, look at me. Daddy, look at me. I'm trying to film my daughter, and he'd want me to watch him ride a bite. So Thomas Redd was way more built to be the star.

Did you know you were kind of in trouble at that point when you were in a sound? No, I mean, because he's such a normal kid. He never acted like he wanted to do this. I think if I hadn't played music and I weren't in Nashville and he was playing guitar, we would think it was special if we live back home. but because we're in Nashville, all my friends play music, everybody I deal with plays music, and he's playing music, it wasn't really that big of a stretch.

So we really didn't think that the, I don't think, he didn't think it was anything special. He's just like, you don't play guitar? Why? Like, I do. Like, who doesn't play guitar or drums or whatever? Like, it was weird for him to be around other kids that didn't play music.

He just thought that was the most natural thing ever. When you start getting into the co-writing stuff, you're now, like, moving on to, I'm going to move on to the next phase of my career. what were your, at that point, were your goals like, oh yeah, let's just aim for number one songs? I mean, there's no way you can predict what's about to happen. No, every day's a new day. You kind of start, you have co-writers that you do most of your stuff with at that point.

Yeah, most of that time, we were called the Peach Pickers. It was myself, Ben Hayeslip and Dallas Davidson. Yeah. And Ben and I grew up together. We started writing songs, we were 14, so we had that going. Did you bring them out here? Like, were you? No, but he moved here because of me.

He knew I was doing it and he wanted to do it. So I was kind of the guy that he knew that gave him, you know, hey, I can go up there and do it. I know Rhett. So. I did everyone from your hometown with your newspapers about football, football, football, was it like, hey, look at what our quarterback from our pass is doing. Yeah. I mean, I imagine that it's big news.

Well, it still is. My mom and dad can't really, no matter where they go, they're like, hey, I saw, you know, Thomas Red on the awards last night or, hey, I heard Red got a number one. I mean, it's football, but now it's music. It just changed from football to music. And your parents still live there. Yes, they do. Crazy.

Yeah, they get bombarded. My mom has a shop down there. And, I mean, literally, every customer that comes in is like, I saw Thomas Redd on this, or I saw him on Instagram, or, you know, I heard Red did that. I mean, it's literally. Do you get a lot of like, like, hey, my friends, sons, sisters, dogs to sing.

Yeah. Well, my mom and dad have kind of. slowly but surely I've weaned them off the sending me the tapes because they're usually really bad and then you have to spend the time and then I have to spend the time

and then I have to call my mom and go you know they're not really good and then she has to tell them you know that they're not good or or she makes up some story whatever I always say like before you make me check this do you love it

would you put it all over your social media and tell all your friends like this I discovered this and I'm putting my name on the line for it. If it's that good, I will check it out. The only time it's really worth. It didn't come from my parents, but a guy that I know in Missouri did the same thing call me. He said, man, if I send you a CD of this kid,

we listen to it. And I was like, yeah, whatever, yes, it's going to be horrible. But yeah, send it. He sent it and it was really good. Like, I didn't really love all the songs, but I thought this guy can sing, man, he's good. And it turned out to be Tyler Farr, you know, who's turned out to be a big artist in country.

So that was one time that it did work out. Sure. Yeah. Okay, so you and Ben and Dallas are starting to kind of clean up. Was that right away? It was. I mean, it started, like, it was exactly 10 years ago. I started really writing full time in 2007, writing songs for other people.

And we wrote a song called Put a Girl in it that Brooks and Dunn recorded. And I'll never forget this. I was at a Brad Paisley number one party. and Jody Williams was there who's the head of BMI here in Nashville and he's like hey Rett what's going on man I said man you ain't gonna believe this Brooks and Dunn just put a song of mine on hold

like I thought it was the greatest thing it was it was like Brooks and Dunn liked something that I wrote because I never had a cut by anybody other than myself and I could see Jody just kind of laughing to himself like oh you got a hold all right you pet me like a little dog like good good job

and then the next thing you know Oh, Ronnie Dunn sends an email to the girl at RCA and says, I love the song. We're going to cut it, and they cut it like the next week. That's when it started. That was in 08. We wrote it in 07, but they cut it in 07, and it came out in 08. And then we got a Jack Ingram recorded the song called Barefoot and Crazy. And so we had one hit in 2008, 1 and 09.

And then in 2010, they started rolling up. We had three number ones that year. It was like ever since 2010, it's really been like, Consistent. A big role, yeah. Do you come across a lot of artists that are fans of yours? You know, because they must have grown. A lot of them must have grown.

Oh, yeah, all the young kids. I mean, for some reason, that ain't my truck has stood the test of time. I don't know why the song gods decide what songs last and what don't. But that ain't my truck is one of the ones from the 90s that literally everybody knows. Why do you think that? Every cover man plays it. Even Blake Shelton plays it in his shows. It's like, I don't know why that one stood out.

and other ones didn't. But yeah, any kid that you get coming up who's 20 to 25, you know, when they were out with you, like, dude, that ain't my trucks, the jam, man, you know, whatever. I sang that and all my cover bands and blah, blah, blah. It's weird for me because I don't think of myself as that guy. How they're looking at me is how I look at Hank Jr. and Charlie Daniels and Merle Haggard. Like those guys, I think, you know, I should be saying this to them.

You should be saying this to me. It's kind of weird to, and I don't even. and put myself on the level of Hank Jr. or Merle, but I do, I am starting to get kind of the little admiration club of, man, you wrote that ain't my truck. That's badass, dude. You know what I mean? Like these little country boys.

I mean, obviously it's hard to tell when you have, you literally have enough number one songs for three greatest hit CDs, if this were a different era, you know? You have that many. I mean, do you think that that's the song that, will, even including the ones he've written for other people. That's my song, yeah. That's the song.

Just like Die Happy Man, you know, for Thomas Rett is, I mean, he might have a bunch of, you know, hopefully he has 30 more giant hits over his career, but that's just, that was his first big one. That's going to be the one. He will never be able to play a show and not play that song. Garth Brooks could never do a concert and not play Friends in Low Places. Yeah, no way. You know, I mean, Rolling Stones couldn't play, could not play honkyton women.

It's just one of those, I don't know why it stuck, but it's, and I've written some big songs for other artists, but even when I do shows, you know, songwriter shows, and I'm playing a Blake Shelton hit or an Al Dean hit or Luke Bryan hit that I wrote, there's always that one guy that audience going, that ain't my truck, man, you know, or after the gig, you know, they'll come up and get a picture or something, some people don't even get it. Some people don't even understand that I'm writing songs for other people. Like after the gig, they'll come up and go, why'd you sing all them Blake Shelton songs? I'm like, did you not hear before each song?

I said, I wrote this. They're like, man, I was buying beer. Yeah, they're like, how come you didn't play? You know, Katie brought my guitar back today off your first record. You know, they think I'm doing a concert. You know, like, this is a songwriter show, and I'm playing the songs that I wrote, and they don't understand that I wrote hunting, fishing, and loving air your day for Luke. They're just going, I guess he just wanted to play that.

I don't know why he played that. I mean, that's so crazy. When you were saying that you can actually remember all the, lyrics to these hits. How? I don't know, just ever since I was a kid. I guess because when you remember Merle Haggard's songs too? Like, do you have, is your book's not just your songs that you know? I guess it's because when you grow up in a small town with nothing to do. And with no radio in your car. No radio. Like, like you just, you know, to play it, to actually play a song, you had to put an album on the, on the turntable and put the needle on it. And I guess, you know, you just did that so many

times that you just remembered it. And plus, um, I was always trying to mimic stuff on the guitar. So I guess my brain was just automatically in tune to memorize stuff as much as I could. Because it wasn't like, if you heard a song on the radio, there was no way to ever hear it again until it came on the radio again. I guess so you soaked up as much of it as you could during that first three minutes and remember it because you had to be able to go to the record store and go, I heard this song.

And the guy's going, yeah, which one? And you're going, you know, the one that said, duh, my blood runs cold. Right. Something, something just being sold. Angel is center, center. That's, you know that song, centerfold song? So I guess because we didn't have, you couldn't rewind anything.

It wasn't like I could go to Google and go, what's the centerfold song? Yeah. You heard it one time in your mom's station wagon, and it might be two weeks before she took you to the record store, and you couldn't hear it again unless it just happened to come on. It's so interesting because, you know, Jay Giles Ben really is kind of like a one-hit wonder for guys who had like

some sick records. Yeah. You know, and the idea of what a one-hit wonder is. Love stinks. This is obviously, yeah, yeah,

right. I mean, it's obviously a totally different conversation, but the idea that artists can be one-hit wonders and have incredible careers as artists, you know, all these records,

how fortunate it is to have that. I think I was born a natural imitator too. I can always, like, pick up on quirks that people have. Like, everywhere I go, somebody says, imitate Luke or imitate so-and-so,

How do you imitate Luke? You know, it's, I don't know, but I won't do it around Luke. He's asked me before. He's like, do it for me. And I was like, no, I can't do it. What's your Blake Shelton? I don't know about Blake, but it's just, I don't know. I guess some people are just born, like Jim Carrier, you know, whoever.

I guess you're just born or not born picking up on subtleties of things like. And so I guess that's why I think I was just born to memorize things. It's nothing that I practiced. weird thing is, is I can't remember what I wrote today, actually. But if you asked me to sing a song, I can tell you that... But you will when it gets to radio. I could tell you, this song was song number three on side four of Zeppelin 2. You know, whatever.

Sure. Sure. So usually we do a thing where we list five people and you just say what comes off the top of your head. But your stories are kind of amazing. So I'm going to just name, you know, like five artists and just kind of want to hear, I don't know, whatever comes to the top of your head. Let's start with Blake Shelton. Blake Shelton, idiot. The quickest, witted, funniest person I've ever met. He, Blake, it doesn't matter what you say, he can twist it, turn it, and make you look stupid.

Like, I'll never forget, I walked into, I guess it was his dressing room or somewhere, and there was 40, 50 people in there, and Blake literally turned around, hug me, pick me up, kissed me on both cheeks, and told me how much he'd miss me. blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, in front of all these people. And then he goes, man, he goes, I ain't heard from you a long time. You got my new number? And I said, and I don't have it. And he said, yes.

And walked out of the room. Just endless. Like, on stage. What you see on him, him badgering, Adam Levine, and everybody on the voice is the true Blake Shelton. And this is not a made-up character. And you've had really kind of define a lot of his. I've had 15 Blake Shelton cuts. Yeah, I mean, you're a huge part of his voice.

far the most of anybody. But Blake is a huge and aficionado of classic country music. He loves classic country music. He can sit down with the guitar and play you any song you want to hear. Fantastic voice and just the wittiest person ever. I mean, he is the voice. Yeah. Jason Aldeen. Jason Aldeen is just the subtle, low-key, cool dude. You know, he's that guy. You're not really sure what he's thinking. And he has a fantastic voice. And Jason really knows hit songs. He has a an uncanny ability to weed through the thousands and thousands of songs that he gets pitched and pick the right one.

And he just brought more of a southern rock edge, you know, to the music. And he's real quiet and got the cowboy hat down low. And he's just a mysterious cool dude. Yeah. Dustin Lynch. Dustin Lynch is one of my favorite people. He's one of the guys that we were talking about earlier that, you know, it was like 30, 30 years old, grew up, you know, probably hearing my songs. on the radio and it's been cool to uh to watch him come from no record deal to being you know

very very huge and i've i have his current single out now called called small town boy and uh he's just he's a he's a studier of music and he's just he's on the verge of being the net one of the next superstars i wish that in in the pop world that you know former artists went and pursued songwriting i mean i think a lot of writers in general used to be artists or aspired to be artists or they want to be artists but there's rarely somebody who's been a successful artist decides you know what no i really just want to focus on the writing thing seems like that's just not something that maybe it's an ego deflator you know what i mean i guess i don't know maybe if you've been an big artist at one time and now you're not anymore and you're like going out maybe they think

it's beneath them sometimes or you know what i mean like a lot of people want to keep their mystique or I mean, obviously, the more you hang around people, you're not as cool as you were before you met them. You know what I'm saying? So I think maybe a lot of artists that were big at one time and now aren't doing much, feel that they're putting their self out there. It probably helps hear that there are giant billboards of you

every time you have the number one song too. So at least it keeps you motivated to be, you know. Yeah, but I don't do it for that, man. I just do it because, I mean, I've made money and I've, you know, had the billboards and the awards and stuff like that. but it, man, we were on tour. Thomas Rett was just on tour,

and Ryan Hurd, who opened for him as a new artist, we were standing on the side of the stage watching the show, and he just looked at me and said, why you still do this? What was your answer? I said, I literally took my phone out of my pocket, and I googled the album cover of Kiss Alive too. Or no, Kiss Alive, the first one.

And on the back, it's a picture of Cobo Hall Arena in Detroit, pack with like 20,000 people, and these two kids, this kiss poster that they drew. They live forever on the back of this album cover. I said, because when I saw that, that lit the fire that I had to do this somehow,

some way, and I will never lose the feeling of opening that album and seeing that. That's what makes me want to, that's why I still do this. Not for money, not for awards, any of that stuff. It's because I want to be, when I'm 90 years old, I want somebody to go, so you wrote Hunting and Fish and Lover Day, Luke Brian?

Like, what was that like? You knew Luke Brian? like I just love the history of music so much that I want to be, I just want to, I want to be involved in it. It's something that I do it for that because of what it made me feel like when I was 10. And that's sort of why we do the podcast anyway. I just think it's fascinating to hear stories about still, even if they're contemporaries who are busy, it's still interesting to hear like, yeah, how did you write those Luke Brian songs?

For real, like, how did you write? Like, I would love to sit with just the, I could pick out 20 of my favorite icons. singers and writers, I would wear them out. Just asking them questions, right? Yeah, I'd be like so, like, when you wrote that with Keith, Richards, like, was he like, was he like drinking Jack Daniels the whole time? Or was that when he was on heroin or like, did Keith come up with that rip? You know what I mean?

I would wear them out with questions. I just love the people that are behind the scenes making, it could be the engineers. I would sit there with Glenn Johns or Andy Johns for, four days and be like, dude, like, did Mick come in with that idea? They're right on the spot. Like, I want to be that guy when I'm 90 where people come to me and go, you wrote, you knew Blake Shelton? You know what I mean? It's like, I'm still a fan. Sure. The reason I'm still in it and do it is because I'm still as much a fan as I was as when I was 10. Okay, so then let's go with Luke Brian next. Tell me about Luke. Luke is the real, he's the real thing. He, um, he came. He came

from not far from where I'm from in South Georgia, grew up real country on a peanut farm, and he has figured out a way, he works because he remains Luke Bryan. There's nothing that he does that is fake. He is just the most authentic country boy. All the girls love him and all the dudes are like, man, Luke Brown's cool.

You know what I mean? I mean, Luke can go and play two nights in a row at Fenway Park and sell the whole thing out, and I promise you, the second he gets home, him and his boys are barefooted in their pond catching catfish. Only because I was hanging out with Thomas earlier, I feel like we should talk about some of the songs you've written with him. But before we get to him,

let's go with songs that you guys wrote together like for Lee Bryce. Park on a party. Yeah. That was a song that was never supposed to happen. That was like the gods that day were like, okay, dropping this in your lap. Thomas Wrette and Luke Laird and I were writing. We couldn't, we tried for two hours. we couldn't think of anything. Thomas Shrette was over it.

He's like, let's go get something to eat. So we'd go out in the parking lot, and Lee Rice is standing in the parking lot. And he goes, what you doing, man? He's like, man, I got a meeting in like 45 minutes I got to go to. And I go, well, you want to try to write a song real quick? Because Thomas Rett, he's over it, you know? He's like, yeah, I mean, I got 45 minutes. Let's try to write something.

He said, what do you need? He goes, I just need that jam that people are playing in the parking lot, you know? And so he said, I got to make a phone call real quick. I'll be there in five minutes. I went inside, we went inside, and immediately went, parking lot, party. Luke pulled up a beat. And by the time Lee came in, we already had the chorus going. And so that song just literally, it wouldn't have happened if Thomas Redd hadn't.

It's been like, let's go get something to eat. That one fell out of the sky. That's so funny. When you do hunting fish, well, not to go back to Luke Brian, but the hunting fishing and loving every day, because obviously you mentioned that and that's a huge record. how do you how do you write that song that's one of those songs you asked me earlier what's it like to write with an artist and they want to want to write an idea that you don't think's a hit yeah um Luke we were out on tour with Luke writing and he calls us over to his bus and he goes

I got this idea and he's sitting there stomping his foot on the barefooted stomped his foot on the floor hunting fishing and loving every day of course we loved it because that's what we grew up doing but we're like you think radio in 2016 is going to play a song about hunting fishing and, you know, everything's so freaking politically correct, and you can't even catch a fish, you know, or everybody's mad. And so we said, we don't care. This is what, let's write it, you know.

So we wrote it as true as we could, we wrote how we all three, all four us grew up, me being Dallas and Luke. And Luke said, I don't know if this song will ever do anything. He said, but it's what hit me this morning. That's what I want to write. And so we wrote it with him. And a year and a half later, he puts it out, you know,

and this is a giant number one song. And that's what he does. Luke hunts and fish fishes all the time. And he also has a huge sponsorship with Cabellas. So he's like, now he's got his own hunting, fishing hats and shirts and clothing lines. So that was cool. I don't think there's many artists that could have put that out and people believed it. Yeah, I don't think any other artists really can put that out.

I think Blake probably could, because Blake loves to hunt. I mean, that's all he thinks about. he's tweeting pictures of him growing corn, you know, all the time when he's sitting at the voice, missing my cornfield or whatever. I hope it rains today. But there's, you know, I don't think Thomas Rett could put that song out and it'd be a hit because I don't think people, he doesn't project that image. I mean, Thomas Rett grew up hunting and fishing, but it's not something that he does 24 hours

a day like me and Luke. He's not thinking about every day, because he's also thinking about performing in front of 20,000 people. Yeah, exactly. So that's just not his thing, you know what I mean? So it's, like I'm going back to Luke's, um, genuineness, I think that that's why that's on work. I think my favorite is dirt on my boots. Yeah, I got them on right now.

These are the boots. Were those the ones that you were thinking of? Yeah, I bought these boots in 2010. Still, the hill is like, it's like a triangle. I must walk on the sides of my heels because the hill is like absolutely gone. These boots. But I bought them in 2010 for like $112 at Thanksgiving when I was at home in Georgia. and I'm kind of superstitious.

Like I think I got it from sports. Like if I tied my left shoe before the game and we won, I always tied my left shoe. Yeah. Until we lost. You know, or I would do like, I'll wash my body first and then my hair backwards.

You know, I do the opposite because we won today when I did that on accident or whatever. And so a lot of good things have happened with these boots. That's why I still wear them, even though my feet kill me all the time. And so this was one of those days. days where we couldn't think of anything to write. And I was just staring at the floor like, God, please give me an idea because it sucks. And I'm looking at my boots and they're

real muddy because I'd been at my farm. And I just said, what about dirt on my boots? And we, you know, we just went to town on that. Never in a million years when I left that room did I think that song was ever going to be hit. I never thought about it again. Never thought about it again. And then they said, John Party's going to cut it. So I got kind of excited for a minute. And then I was like, oh wait, that's the work, that, no, no, no, John Party can't cut that. Because he just put out the biggest song of his life called Head Over Boots. There's no way in the world that they will put that song out. They will not put out two boot songs in a row.

And then Head Over Boots, Most Played Song of 2016. And then Mike Dungan, the head of Capitol Records told John, he said, I don't care if you say boots 500 times. He goes, he goes, all I care about is having two major. major hits in a row. I don't care what they're called. It might help too. It's like kind of part of it becomes those things are not back. It kind of helps your brand. It's something where, oh yeah, that's the guy who does songs about boots. And he's got another song on his album called Cowboy Hat.

And he goes, we couldn't put it now. He goes, that's going too far. Two boots and a hat song. He said the hat song might come later. We couldn't do Boot Boot Boot Hat. But that's one of those songs that when you've written as many songs as I have and you have and Joe's written. It used to be every day was the Super Bowl. You went in there every day, like this has to be the greatest song of all time. I'm going to write this thing for 10 hours, if that's what it takes. And then when you've written your thousandth song and all the big songs that you thought were going to be hits that never were, it's like you're setting yourself up

for failure almost every day going in there thinking that this is going to be a smash. So my mindset now is, yeah, I'm going to try to write it as good as I can do it, but I'm going to write it and I'm going to leave it. and I'm going to be like, I'm not going to think about this again because it would kill me if I call my publisher every day going, anybody put dirt on my boots on hold? Anybody put dirt on my boots on hold on home? Like today, Jason Aldine took a song off hold of mine that he's had for three months, and I'm like, want to punch the wall.

Do you call him? No, and I'm not mad at Jason. It didn't fit him. If he didn't think it works for him, it doesn't work. But if I called it every, I'm mad after one day of finding out that he's not going to cut that song. If I called him every day and go like, well, what's happening? is Jason still like it? It's too much of a, I mean, it just wears you down.

So at this point, I go on there. Keep your head down and do your job. I just go there. I try to write the best. It's like watching corn grow. I mean, it's like you plant corn. If you sat there and watched this kernel, you would kill yourself because it's not going to grow for nine months.

It's going to take all summer and into the fall for this thing to be 10 foot tall. You got to plant it, water it, and get out. And then two weeks later, you'll come back, a foot high, you know, and it's like that with songs. It's just like, you got to, like when you've written so many, there comes a point where you'll drive yourself crazy if you don't just let them go. And so I just let dirt on my boots go.

I was like, I don't know if anybody ever record this ever. And then it turns out to be like three week number one. So you just, you just got to show up. The number one thing is you have to show up and write. You can't write it if you don't write it. And then you just got to let the chips fall where they may. And I do think that songs find them, I think they wind up where they're supposed.

to be. There's the song, like, I've had so many songs that a bigger artist was going to cut and they took it off hold and I'm like wanting to run off, drive off a cliff because I'm like, this song will never do anything now. And then a new artist cuts it and it's gigantic. You know, the song knew that Luke didn't need it. You know what I mean? He knew that this, that this guy needed that song. What's an example of that? Well, I can tell you one, um, Rodney Atkins, Joe Nichols and Rodney Atkins Neither one of them had had a big hit in at least three years

And we wrote the song called Give Me That Girl, which was our first number one It was Peach Pickers Love this song, a few big artists had it on hold And they took it off hold And Joe Nichols was going to cut it And I love Joe Nichols in his voice But just from a business standpoint

I was like, I'm not sure I mean Joe hadn't had a hit in three, four years You know Three Week number one Rodney Atkins hadn't had a hit in two or three years, and Chris Young put the song, Chris Young and Rodney both had take a backroad on hold. But Rodney had it first, but Chris really wanted to cut it.

So on paper, you would rather have Chris Young cut it because he's hot and had three or four number ones in a row, and you think that's a guaranteed hit. But Rodney had it first, and so, you know, we had to honor that, so you do it. and it was a BMI most played song of the year. So you never know, you can't discriminate. It's got to be the song's going to go where it's supposed to go.

Yeah. I mean, they're all capable artists, so it's like, yeah. I mean, Locash had never had a number one in their life, you know. And I wrote, I know somebody that a bunch of, that a few artists had on hold. And as soon as they took it off, Lofash got it, and they went to number one. So I've learned now that, you know, a song coming off hold sucks

for that day. But I've kind of taught myself to be like, well, obviously it's supposed to go, it's got a better home somewhere else. Last artist, I'll ask you about because I know we can keep going through another 50 of them, but Thomas Rett. Thomas Rett is a superstar that I can't, like, every, no matter where I go, they're like, you got to be so proud. Like, you have to be so proud of Thomas Rett. A guy, he's just killing it, killing it, killing it. And I'm like, yeah, I'm proud of him, but not because he can sing.

I'm like, you know how many singers out there are the biggest jerks in the world? It's like, I'm a fan of Thomas Wrette because of Thomas Rett, number one. First and foremost, and Joe London can tell you, like, he's just the dude. I mean, Thomas Red is like the kid. If he never had a hit again, people would still write with him because they like him. he's just genuine. He's the most thoughtful. He has empathy for other people.

You don't just write with Thomas Redd. You become best friends with him when you're right with him. And it's been so cool because not many fathers and sons work well together in any job. I don't care if you're a plumber. You know, you and your dad are going to get in a fight over the business. And it's just been so cool to be able to write songs with Thomas Red. And we've been doing it since he was, you know, eight years old. But he is a superstar and I think going to get bigger and bigger.

But it's still cool that he's just my son. You know, when I really look at him, that's the first thing I think of. He's just my kid. Well, thank you for doing this for a number of reasons. But, you know, your story's important for all these genres, for the fact that you you hustled your way up from nothing

from having to give up your dream of being a football player all the way to saying I really know that if I pursue this with the same effort that I pursued trying to be the best football player that I can have that

if I have that discipline that I can then become a working musician and then to go to being the top of your game as an artist. And then say, you know what? I'm going to redefine myself again and then do it as a writer. Yeah.

It's hard enough to get one song that's a hit. And to have basically 30, I mean, you're talking about 27 number ones plus all the ones that didn't get to number one, not including the fact that, like you're saying, I think the most impressive thing is that, you know, you're obviously. a good dad. You obviously have a son who's also becoming a good dad. And there's

we're all trying to figure out how can we have a family in music. How can we pursue our dream and not ruin our future children or children if we have them? And so, you know, you've led by example and

people speak highly behind your back also because you're also fun to be around. So you've done something right for yourself as well as Thomas. Yeah, I do think that growing up where I grew up, not only my parents and my grandparents were like the hardest working people I ever knew. Then you go to football and it's like the Marine Corps. And I really think that where I grew up is the reason that I'm, that I've stuck it out. Like, because I just, you know, I don't have the most talent in the world. I'm not the best

guitar player, not the best singer, not the best writer. But I feel like that I outwork. just about everybody. I'm not that guy that that gets that dream in the middle of the night and I write the song in 10 minutes. It's not romantic. I'm not at a bar

writing this thing on a napkin. It's like I get up and do it every five days a week, like a job. It's not the most sexy or romantic way to write songs, but I think that's just the way I grew up is you just can't sit around

and just hope something happens. You've got to really get after it. And that would be my biggest advice to all the, no matter if you're in L.A., New York, Austin, Nashville, Miami, wherever you are in this country trying to do this, you got to show up, you know. You might be the most talented kid in the world, but if you don't get out there and do it, somebody's going to get it. Yeah. Yeah. Other than you. Yeah, and again, like, for all the years that neither of us win BMI Awards, you know,

that hustle you taught me before I ever even got to talk to you but it's true it's like you can sit there and you can dream about it and and you know

for all the people who are about to be BMI songwriter of the year and haven't had their first cut yet you know thanks for listening and thank you for being here I appreciate it I appreciate you yes

don't miss the 51st annual CMA Awards this Wednesday at 8 o'clock 7 o'clock on ABC. See performances by your favorite artists, including Garth Brooks, Carrie Underwood, Luke Bryan, and many more. For more information, visit cMA awards.com.

Thanks for listening to this episode of And The Writer is. If you want to hear music from this songwriter I just interviewed, be sure to check out our Spotify playlist or visit our website at and The WriterIs.com. If you like what we're doing, please subscribe to us on iTunes. You can also like us on Facebook and Twitter. And The Writer Is is produced by Joe London, edited by Miles Bergsmah, and published by Big Deal music.

A special thanks to David Silberstein from Mega House Music and Michael White. On next episode, we sit down with Nicole Gallion. And I think, you know what? I'm done. Like, I knew that was like the nail in the coffin of I'm not doing the artist thing anymore. And I told Rodney and I were like, let's have a baby. So we got pregnant. And I remember thinking, again, I'm talking to God, I talk to God a lot.

And I was like, I don't know what my heart's going to tell me to do when I hold a baby. Like, I hold my child for the first time. And if that means that I'm not a writer anymore, then I'm willing to let that go. And I had gotten a few cuts while I was pregnant, which I like to attribute to baby karma. What were the cuts? We were us, was one of them. Never heard of it. But it had not come out.

Like we had just, we heard that he had cut it, and we heard that he had like three or four different people that were in the running to maybe sing the duet with them. And none of them were tied down. So I'm like, are we going to lose this song? Like there was, and I'm not close to that camp. And I think they kept it pretty quiet. So I still was like, I got a cut, but I don't know what's going to happen with it. And again, I hadn't held my baby. So I have this baby.

And then like a month later, I get pulled into right with Miranda for the first. first time. And that day, we wrote automatic and we wrote platinum, like in four hours. We wrote, that was like our... You wrote both of them in four hours? We wrote both of them in one day, four hours. Oh, come on. That's not real. That's real. And I remember before I left, I, I was like, she was talking about recording her part on We Were Us. And I was like, it happened? Like, you sang on it? I didn't know. Like, I didn't, I had heard. Several names were thrown out there. And she's like, oh, yeah, she's like, we worked our asses off on it.

Until next time, this is Ross Golan.