And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan - Ep. 64: Matthew Ramsey (Old Dominion)

Episode Date: June 17, 2019

Originally from Buchanan, Virginia our guest is an award winning, multi-platinum artist who moved to Nashville to pursue his passion for songwriting. There he met his future bandmates and together went on to form the band Old Dominion, in which he is the lead singer. He co-wrote the band’s first hit song, "Break Up With Him," which is RIAA certified platinum. Old Dominion’s sophomore album, ‘Happy Endings’, debuted at #1 on the Billboard Top Country Albums Chart & #7 on the Billboard Top 200. The album produced three platinum, #1 singles, “Written In The Sand,” “No Such Thing As A Broken Heart” and “Hotel Key,” all of which our guest co-wrote. He also co-wrote the band’s single “Make It Sweet,” which recently hit #1 on the Country charts. In addition to his band, he has written hit songs for other artists such as Kenny Chesney ("Save It for a Rainy Day"), Sam Hunt (“Make You Miss Me”), Dierks Bentley (“Say You Do”), Luke Bryan ("Goodbye Girl") and Tim McGraw (“Kiss A Girl”) among others. He is a three-time winner of the Association of Independent Music Publishers “Artists Writers of the Year” award, a two-time CMA “Triple Play Award” winner and the recipient of the ASCAP “Artist Writer of the Year” award. Additionally, he is a two-time Academy of Country Music Award winner for “Vocal Group of the Year,” and Country Music Award winner for “Vocal Group of the Year” as a part of Old Dominion. And The Writer Is...Matthew Ramsey!This episode is sponsored by SONOS. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Season 4 of And The Writer is. I'm your host, Ross Golan. I've written with hundreds of artists and writers over the years, and my favorite part of each session is the first hour when we catch up about life, the industry, politics, composition, whatever. So this is a journey of learning why people write songs, how people write songs, and most importantly, who the people are who write the songs. I'm producing this with the Great Joe London, big deal music publishing and mega house music management.

If you want to listen to the songs we discuss in this podcast, follow us on our socials, find out about special events, or buy some of our merchandise, go to our website www. www. and the writer is.com. Oh, and if you enjoy End the Writer Is,

please rate and subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or whatever your preferred podcast listening site is. Listen, listen to it. you guys have at home. But recently my friends of Sonos sent me a speaker and I took it out of the box, downloaded the app and the thing's incredible. Full frequency range, you know, vocals are clear, bass was bumping. The whole thing was exactly how you want music to be heard. And if you're a songwriter, you know what I'm talking about. You spend all this time making sure that your music sounds perfect in front of a studio monitor. And then you go home, you want to have your sono speaker

there to reflect the music that you are recording in the studio. So go to www.sonos.com and get yourself a speaker. If you want to get more, it's so intuitive, you get more, and the Apple figure out how to make your system even functional within itself. So again, you can listen to Spotify, Apple, whatever it is. But go to www.sonos.com and get yourself a speaker now. Welcome to, and the writer is, I am your host, Ross GoL, Today's multi-award-winning multi-platinum songwriter, artist, musician, has had a decade-long run of success,

including seven number one top 40 country hits with legends like Kenny Chesney, the band Perry, Sam Hunt, and Dirk's Bentley, all while scoring Old Dominion. Winning this year's ACM Award for Vocal Group of the Year, this guy has cemented himself as one of the premier frontmen in Nashville. This Virginia is not only a staple, in the music scene, but also a family man at home. And the writer is the biggest gear junkie I've ever met. Matthew Ramsey.

Wow. I kind of thought you were going to do that when I was outside the room, but just combusting it. Yeah, I mean, I just want to make it as uncomfortable as possible as sir. So you were signed in 2005. What took you so long?

Yeah, I sucked. Okay. Yeah. Did you always thought? No, okay, let's start from the beginning, really. You're from Virginia. Where in Virginia? It's from a very small town.

It's called Buchanan, Virginia. It's spelled Buchanan, but everyone calls it Buck Cannon. Okay. Is that an accent problem? I think so. Yeah, I think so. There's only a thousand people. Whoa.

There's no stop. Like, how many people are at your high school? Right under 400, I think. I graduated with 70 people. Crazy. You still keep in touch. touch with all of them? No, but some of them I do. Yeah. But yeah, it was a very rural in small town. When did you start playing? You played drums first. That's your first. I played drums. Yeah,

I started playing drums when I was, I don't know, sixth grade or whatever. As I was in like the drum line and stuff. Oh, cool. And like high school and stuff. And, uh, but then, you know, all of everybody in the drum line, all my buddies in the drum line were like, we should have a band, but we all play drums. And, and, And then somebody was like, well, I think I got a guitar. I was like, well, I can probably borrow a bass or something, you know, so that I borrowed a bass. And so the drumline became my first band. And we all started just writing songs together. What was a band called?

The first incarnation was called phonology. Oh, yeah. That feels like the era appropriate. If you know the era, that's pretty spot on. And then we went into pork rinds was the name of the van. So you went, I mean, that doesn't sound particularly like country, which we'll get into later. But that's not like that's not like the, I guess pork rinds maybe, but I don't know what kind of music was it? It was, we just wanted to be Pearl Jam.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, it was like just straight up grunge. It was like Nirvana Pearl Jam's. Shout out to my friends who I'm sure are listening to this from junior high. They started a band called Joni's Loaf because it was like Pearl Jam was Pearl was the grandmother, I think, Grandma Pearl and it was her jam. And it was like they all liked that.

And my friend's mom's Joni and she would make this zucchini bread and they called it Joni's Loaf. And it was like, I wanted to be in that band. They wouldn't let me in the band. So I take back the shout out. Yeah. Deal with it, guys. Anyway, so did your parents play music? No, no.

Nobody in my family really played. My uncle did. What did he play? He played guitar. He played guitar player. He sort of, he would, like, when I was in that band in high school, anything, any kind of stuff he wasn't using or was done with, he would just at Thanksgiving, throw it in the trunk of his car and drive it down.

And then I would have, like, a new amp or some guitar or something. Is this something he was doing as a profession? Really just kind of playing in bars and stuff. He always had like cover band, a day job and cover band. But seeing him play, I was like, wow. My parents would sneak me into bars just to watch my uncle play. That was awesome. Pork rinds existed at a school of 400 people.

So you guys are all in a drum line of that. That means everybody's doing multiple things. All of you guys must also be on the football team. And then like in the halftime, you're like, I'm going to go pick up this drum and start drumming. It's such a small school. Who are you playing shows for? Oh, you know, no one.

We played in our basements and we played a couple of high school functions. And then we played we did kind of then there was a city called Roanoke, Virginia, which is about 30 miles away, 30, 40 miles away. And we did start getting into some clubs there and start playing. you know, with big black exes on our hands. And, you know, I don't know why my parents ever let us do that, but we were in these bars with grown men, you know, kids, when you were 17. When you were 17, 17 years old. Yeah. Why did you go to college? Like, why did you go, you went to VCU, right? I did. Why did you even continue? At that point, you're probably like,

I'm playing shows. Yeah, I mean, I wasn't, I wasn't, you know, I really loved art too. I was a visual artist as well. And that's kind of what I spent my whole entire high school doing was playing music and creating art. And so I figured I needed to go to college, but I didn't know what for. And I didn't want to go for music because I had had some lessons before in the lessons for me felt like I was being made to do it and I didn't want to do that.

I just wanted to make the music that I was enjoying for myself and I didn't want someone to make, I didn't want it to feel like homework. Right. So I went to art school. Where drawing can feel like homework. Right. Right. Yeah, because my biggest stress was finishing a painting.

Are there similarities between, you know, making art and making music for you? Yeah. Yes. Do you think of them as the same? I don't think of them as the same, and they do sort of tickle different parts of my brain. But the art school, I have said before, it was so beneficial to me in this career in that, you know, you would go to class. And when your project was due, you know, you're in a class with all these amazing artists. And, you know, on due day, everyone puts their painting up on the wall, side of the wall, side of the by side and you go down the list and the whole class critiques you and rips you to pieces if you're

me you know i wasn't the like i wasn't by no means the best painter in that class or any of those classes and so they would just kind of rip you to pieces and you learned you know how to take criticism and take you know use it or you know it just gives you a thick skin it does that but i mean i guess the similarity is that I did theater classes growing up. And the idea of also you have to learn how to give constructive criticism. I think in a way taking it is something that is useful for obvious reasons. But learning how to give criticism without being a prick.

Yeah, totally. Without just being like, that sucks. Yeah, but to be able to say, well, you're not executing this quite like you think you are. Yeah. And to try to figure out a way to make it better, you know. Yeah. So are you playing music through? Did you graduate?

I did. Yeah, I graduated with a degree in illustration. And did you play any music in college? Yeah, I played music all through college. I was playing, you know, whatever little coffee shop I could. I was writing songs. On your own. On your own.

Yeah. And then towards the end of college, I found some other dudes. And we had a band for a little while and we were playing around Virginia. What was that band called? That was just my name. That was Matt Ramsey band. Yeah. That was back in the days when that was a cool thing to do.

It's so funny because that's just what it is. I mean, you know, we're all in, you end up in bands and you just, if it's Matchbox 20, then you're going to be, you know, whatever, Globe 45 or whatever. Yeah, totally. Just throwing a number. If you're Dave Matthews band, then you're going to be. Yeah. And I think, you know, when I was, when I was.

Yeah, right. And when I was in college, that's when I was working at a I was literally sorting trash I was at a recycling working recycling place and it was sorting trash and that was country music

playing it was always country music in my house growing up my parents listened to it was always on I was never like a big fan I mean it was all I knew it all but that was not what I chose to listen to but that was on one day

in that recycling plant And I was like, and I feel like I could just, I feel like I could write this stuff because I grew, I know all of this stuff. What kind of country was it that your parents, were your parents listening to Merle Haggard and Buck Owens? Yeah, it was a radio really. Oh, so there was a radio on in the kitchen. Yeah. And there still is to this day. Yeah.

There's just a radio in the corner of my parents' kitchen that's a very low volume, but it's always country radio. So that was always on. And I had some exposure to like the Merle Haggards and really, Jennings. and stuff through my grandparents and stuff like that. But it was more like Garth and that kind of stuff at the time. Yeah, sure. Were any of the songs good that you were playing in the Matthew Ramsey band or even before that? Good.

Yeah, I would say there's probably some merit to them. I mean, there was some bad ones too, but there were, you know, there were a few outliers that contained some sort of spark, you know, something that was like grabbing some attention in some way. Did you ever pull from those once you kind of became a professional? No, not really. Yeah. What connects you from working in a recycling company to Nashville?

Like, what's the story? How do you get from there to like, I hear this, I could write this to I'm on Music Row. Well, it's kind of long too because it took quite a while. Yeah. What year? Give me like an estimate. Okay. You know, probably 2000.

So hearing that thinking I could write it was ultimately, you know, wrong that I could go home and sit down and write that. What does that mean? Why is it wrong? Because, you know, your ideas of what a country song are and the thinking it's so simple and it is simple. But it's hard to write that simple. It's hard to do that. So it did sort of, though it did sort of shift the way I looked at writing music. And, you know, just a more lyrical story than before.

But so I graduated college. And when I graduated, I had to make a choice that I was either going to pursue art or I was going to pursue music because I felt like I couldn't half-ass both of them. If I tried to do both, I felt like they were both going to. suffer. So I chose music, much to my parents' chagrin, I think. Were they really angry about it? They were not angry about it at all. Yeah. They were, they have been completely supportive of my music all the way through. But so I moved to Blacksburg, Virginia and was in that band, Matt Ramsey band.

We were playing as much as we could all over the region, playing in Harrisonburg, Virginia. with this band called Small Town Workers. I would go up there and play a lot by myself and some with this other band, which turns out those members of that band are now in the band that I'm currently in. So I've known those guys forever. But so I was sort of toiling away,

writing songs, and then that band ended up breaking up. And then I made a little CD on my own, went to a little recording stuff. studio and made a disc and was playing coffee shops. CD baby and stuff? Yeah, totally. Or ordered a thousand CDs.

Yeah, exactly. I think I still have about 800 of them. And so at that point there was this radio program on public radio called Mountain Stage. And it was a lot of folk music and singer-songwritery stuff and I used to listen to it. And they were having a songwriter festival sort of nearby and I went to it and met Darrell Scott who is a country songwriter he wrote

it's a great day to be alive for oh yeah sure he wrote some a bunch of the Dixie Chicks stuff and he was he was like a feature there and sat in a room and watched him play and was blown away so I went to him afterwards and said you know I'm thinking about moving to Nashville what do you think about that and he said well you know if you're going down there to be a star then I wouldn't do it he goes but if you

want to go down there and learn how to write a great song and be surrounded by the greatest songwriters and the greatest musicians and learn from that then I think by all means you should do it and so I took that to heart and still to this day try to keep that attitude

whenever I'm you know in a writing session but that's my attitude towards Nashville is I've just, when I made the choice to go down there, to learn, not to, not with these expectations of just blowing up. Yeah, that's amazing advice.

So it was super cool advice. At the same time. So afterwards, he leaves, you're still in Blacksburg and you're like, hey guys. Well, no, because the band is. Yeah, the band is not together yet or anything. So it's just me and my wife.

When did you meet her? in middle school. No way. So she was going through all this with you. Yeah, she's been through the whole thing. Yeah. So then we're like, all right. One man ban, no more.

Totally. Yeah. So then it's like, all right. I'm thinking about moving to Nashville, but still, still not sure. You know, I still haven't been sold. And then I'm working at a stained glass place. I was working at. started like kind of painting stained glass windows and and designing stained glass windows for

this thing lynchburg stained glass and lynchburg virginia and um there's a country artist that was pretty hot at the time his name is phil vassar he's also a big songwriter too he was writing all that all the 90s country hits and stuff and he's from lynchburg virginia and his sister came in and they told me she was coming in so i in shameless self-promotion handed her a CD and said you know pass it on if you want and um she called me about a week later and said hey um i'm i'm going down to nashville i want a few more of those CDs so i gave it to her and a couple weeks later she calls me and it's like you should come down here and um so i did uh i went down there and it was at this point it was august of 2002 and i went to nashville and her sister her other sister who

worked with Phil Vassar at the time. Took me around Nashville, showed me the Bluebird Cafe and all this stuff. And we were like, we drove by all these big houses. And I was like, man, these houses are insane. She said, yeah,

one of them is Phil's. We're going there after here. So we went to Phil's house. And he was like, man, you know, I heard your music and you're obviously not an amateur, but if you want to be successful at this,

then you need to be here. And so I moved within, two months. I went down there. And he was amazing. He took me on the road with him and was like, whatever, if you want to come and you want to see what this is like, you need to come out and see what it's like. So I would hop on the bus and go on tour for a couple weeks just to see. And we would sometimes write, sometimes not, usually not. I would just be there, just kind of soaking it all in. and his tour manager at the time is now our tour manager. No way.

Yeah. I mean, and there's so many things there. One is if somebody gives you music, do you listen to it? You know, no one ever does. Yeah. Yeah. No one ever gives me music.

But yeah, the fact that he actually did. That's what so surprising. I mean, it's one thing to, you know, for the people in the company to say, that's stained glass company to say, hey, you're, they knew who Phil Vassar's sister was. Right. First of all. Then they say you should bring in music and be prepared.

Yeah. Which you happen to have a CD. And then you gave it to her and she had the ear to not only hear it, but then show her sister who's working with Phil. Which meant that they all had a conversation behind your back. Yeah. And they were all like, well, why don't we tell this kid to move up here? Yeah.

And you're sitting there at the stained glass company for that week, being like she never listened to it. And you're still going in every day, working away. And they're all having conversations about, well, this guy's pretty good. We should bring him out? You know, how do we do that? You want to go tell them? Like, should you call them?

Like, why don't we do that? And then you come up and we'll show them blueberry and we're going to go and woo him a little bit. And you're sitting there having no idea any of this is happening. Yeah, I know. And this is actually over the period of a couple of weeks at this point. Yeah, totally. Literally writing songs. I had, you know, you had the old school like time punch card.

Yeah. I had like a stack of them and I was writing lyrics during the day on these time punch. Do you have any of those? I don't. I wish I did. I really wish I did. But yeah, they were just completely. When you said to your wife, we're going to Nashville.

You didn't have kids yet, right? No kids yet. So you're just like, yeah, of course we're going to get up and go. Yeah. This is huge. And then you go up, you go on tour. For people who haven't seen a backstage tour for Nashville, it's a little different than when you go to to a pop concert.

Right. I think just people in general have, it's a little more of a community. Yes. Of people, you know, the roadies are talking to the guys in the band are talking to,

you know, everyone, it's not, you know, it doesn't really have this superstar kind of feeling even with the superstar. You know, in our band, you know,

our goal is to make everyone feel like they're part of the whole thing. And we try to create a real family vibe every night before the show. the entire crew comes back but right before the show we have a toast and it's someone's turn every night

to do the toast and you don't know who it's going to be and it could be the lighting guy, it could be me where does that come from that work at that maybe yeah well we went on tour with Kenny Chesney for about three years and

he has that vibe for sure he treats everyone so well and we just wanted to kind of carry that Do you get nervous? Performing? Sure. No. Did you ever?

No. The only time I really got nervous, I get nervous if I have to sing at somebody's wedding. Oh, yeah. Or I have done a funeral. But that's the only real time. Yeah. I mean, I do get...

What kind of person doesn't get nervous in front of a bunch of humans while you're about to go and, like, yell in an amplified microphone? Right. You know, I guess maybe at some point, I did, but I guess I sort of always had this feeling that what's going to happen?

I mean... Yeah, right. What's the worst case in there? Is that I walk off stage? Yeah, I mess up. Oh, okay. You know? You know, I never really... Right. Got nervous.

So, this is... You know, you go on tour with Phil. Yeah. And that's, you know, at this point, probably 2003 or 4 even, right? Yeah. I mean, because that's a long period of time when you're talking about. You go up there.

It's a lot of work of meeting people, waiting for tours to start. You're going on tour. You're not performing or writing with them. You're just going for the vibe. What brings you, does he start booking sessions for you? I mean, when do you start writing? No, really, the best thing that he did for me was just sort of pull the curtain back a little bit. And he never really set anything up for me or even really opened any doors for.

me except for him you know um i just i had to hit the ground running when i moved there and start making you know making a name for myself as best i could and um it it took me longer than it takes some people i think i you know it took me took me you know a solid 10 15 years to scratch the surface i feel like you know um but you know i was just i was there and i didn't like to or with him. I would just go out for a week or two, and then I'd be home for a month or whatever. I was just writing where, going out to writers and I literally opened the phone book when we, the first night we were there and like saw, oh, songwriter cafe, broken spoke songwriter cafe, let's go there. Went there, met some friends that I'm still friends with today, you know.

I think a lot of, Luke Laird actually was there. That's how I met Luke Laird. was in the little, crappy little green room of this little place that I looked up in the phone. Friend of the podcast, Luke Laird. Good man. You know, I think a lot of new writers

assume that they're trying to get in with the Luke Lairds or the Max Martins or whoever's at the top right now. And what they don't realize is it's their peers that they meet at those places that will become that.

And those guys will be the Phil Vassers. And those guys will be, the, you know, whatever it is, the LA reader, whoever is, you know, the older than Max version, you know. But they work, you have to work your way up with your peers, just like any other industry, you know.

And it's just something where I think people assume they'll, I mean, sometimes it happens where they get to work with some great right off the top. Right. What a good mentor is is what Phil did, which was show you what to do, and then you go and hustle and you make it happen. And I would play, you know,

I would send him music every once in a while, and he would listen and go, you're doing everything right, man. Just keep going. Great. He never was like, let me play this for so-and-so. Let me play this for something. He would just say, you're doing it right,

you're doing it right. Just keep doing, you're doing everything right. You moved the band up, or they moved up also. Well, they must have seen what you were doing. They were like, well, I want to play. It was funny. Like, at one point when I was on tour with, with Phil.

We played in Charlottesville, Virginia. I walked off the bus and some of the guys were actually working as like the stage hands for the local like stage hands that day. And they were like, dude, Ramsey just stepped off the bus. They're like, what is he doing? And I would always call them. They were still together. They were still that band small town workers at this point. And I would call them all the time and be like,

man you guys are such a great band you got to come down to Nashville you would kill it and you know they were a rock band and I was like you know the scene is not just country you got to come down here you guys would kill they they broke up um so they sort of one by one moved down it was the drummer that I also grew up in med middle school with uh he came down he was he was he part of the drumline he was in the competing drum line oh he was in the drum line that was way better than ours Really? Yeah, he was always amazing, and we would always go watch his performance

because he had solos and stuff. He was great. So he moved down, and Jeff, the bass player, moved down because he wanted to be like a session guy or a touring musician. And then Brad, Brad, I didn't really know that well.

He was in a different band, and he sort of moved down a few years later. But at the time, it was a different guitar player that was, that is now, also a successful touring musician and the singer from that band plays for Taylor Swift now and I mean it's like everyone

came down and hit it man yeah it's nice to know when you're growing up and you look around you like all these people are really talented that that may mean that they're world class talented and not small talent talented yeah that's a great way to look at it yeah because it is you just have to

put yourself in the right position and work your ass off right exactly But they all came down and, yeah, we were just kind of their buddies. And, you know, I'm writing songs. I'm writing songs with this guy, Trevor Rosen, that I had met in Nashville. And so the songs that Trevor and I were writing, I was, you know, I always want to play gigs. You know, I always want to go play the songs I wrote. So I would book myself at whatever little club in Nashville and go play.

And then I'd need a band and my buddies were here. So I'd be like, hey, can you guys want to come play? I can't pay you, but, you know, they're like, yeah, dude, let's go. That helps that you have friends in those places. Yeah. As many of you know, I have an album coming out this summer. I talk about it a lot.

It's called The Wrong Man. And one thing I learned very quickly when we finish mastering it, and before it's come out, is that I want to play it for anyone who comes to our house. But, you know, it's weird to have people come and just sit in your studio and listen to your studio monitors. You want to have dinner. You want to have people sitting around and enjoying the music in the way

normal people enjoy music. So my friends Assono's recently sent me a speaker and I'm telling you that it's incredible. It's something of a game changer because it's easily portable so I can put it in different rooms. But we just set it up. I took it out of a box, downloaded the app. And I pressed play and I was sold

because vocal clarity is there, the bass is there, the transparency is brilliant, and you can have a speaker that is affordable and easy to play and set up that genuinely shows the work I've spent in the studio. So if you want to get a speaker, go do it at sonos.com. I'm telling you, you won't be sorry.

It is an incredible experience for musicians to have speakers that represent the sound that they're recording in the studio. So again, go to sonos.com and grab a speaker now. You guys sign, though, kind of early, right? I mean, the deal with RCA is pretty... It's pretty new, but no, we toured for years on our own with no deal or anything. So, I guess 2007 is when we really started playing. as this band.

Oh, I see. Okay. And we were touring around the country in a van for the long time. Was it hard for them to convince, were they all married? Is it hard to convince your wife at that point that, hey, I'm going to leave because I'm going to go tour in a van? Yeah, it wasn't the easiest thing. But, I mean, sort of at this point, so there's a little buzz happening about the songwriting. and that's helping.

So I'm starting to get some traction as a songwriter around the time the band starts to take shape. So finally, starting to get a little bit of movement there and I'm getting, you know, I've got a publishing deal and I'm making a little bit of money, so I'm not really getting any cuts yet, but... But you're eating. Right.

You're making music and eating and you're not having to work. Right. At, you know... Yeah, so then it would be like, we wouldn't go... You know, we would go out for a couple nights. You know, I would take all the car seats out of the minivan, and then the dudes would jump in, and we would drive to Alabama and play, you know, come back.

Where did the name come from? It was, it's the nickname for the state of Virginia since all of us are, or most of us are tied to Virginia. Right. Looking for something. Yeah. Really the only thing I could find, I was literally setting up, we were setting up in a bar one night.

And I was like, gosh, the only thing I can find is not taking is Old Dominion. And they went, what's wrong with that? Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. When do you sign with Shane McNally who becomes, you know, your first real main co-writer as far as, I mean, it's him and Josh Osborne in a way that where you start really getting those. Yeah, Shane and Josh.

Huge names to have us random co-writers. Right. Well, that's because I'd met them before they were huge. huge writers and we were all writing together and uh you know Shane would come over to my house and and and we would write and I think at the time when I met him he had uh one one song last call by this is his only song that he really had going at the time but it you know to us it was like that's he's got he's got something you know like and and and so we were we were all just writing together and then Shane just blew up and Josh blows up and you know we're all

then like you were saying your class of peers we were in that class so we start to get it too and we start rising up and same it's just naturally happened with Shane and the band we've we've been you know in demo sessions and stuff with Shane where he produces these demos and meanwhile the band is happening and we start talking about cutting some music on our own

and and we were like man you're so good in the studio when we make these demos you should just come produce us and he was like well yeah I'll do that and so you know at this point he really didn't have a whole lot going on he's starting to he was really starting to break as a songwriter at that point crazy yeah I guess chainsaw is really sort of the first first big one yeah my first one the first one I heard on the radio was the song called wake up loving you that was Craig morgan's song but then chainsaw was the one that really sort of was like okay I think this is going to work.

Yeah. What's it like to go from, your parents have this little radio in their kitchen, which means that they can hear that song at home, which means they heard it a lot. Right, yeah. What's it like for all the people who are around you?

Everyone that's around me is so they're so supportive, and they make me feel so good. Because you know we skipped over a lot in this story of years of being broke in Nashville and and just job after job and you know wanting to give up. Give me a list of some of those jobs.

I mean I was an egg cook. I worked for an art gallery. I worked for a moving company, you know, whatever I could do, you know, just because we were broke, I would do. I would do, you know. working a coffee shop. It's just like anything to help me pay the bills, which was really super tough to do. So it was, you know, it's a grind, man. It took a really

long time. And so for it to actually work everyone around me, I think knew how hard I'd worked at it. And they're so proud and so supportive. When did you feel like that was,

I mean, obviously, I would assume it's that song. I mean, as you said, you had heard songs on the radio before, but it's almost harder to see a song go at radio and then not go all the way. Right. You know, there has to be a moment where you own, I think I just did

it. Yeah, I don't know, because it's like sometimes I do feel that. Sometimes, I think, you know, with the Dirk's Bentley's song, Say You Do, was my first number one. And I think, you know, that was, you're just You're just always in Nashville, it's such a number one song-driven thing that, at least in the writing community, it's like, that's the brass ring. That's what you want. So I think that was a moment where I was like, got it, you know.

But I still never felt like I had it forever. Did you want to ever stop being an artist once you see it? Because it's right around the same time that the artist's up. really starts to break. But is there a point there where you're like, well, I'm making it as a writer, why am I spending time on the road in a van if I'm making

X amount in a session with friends and then I can go home? Why do you do that to yourself? I don't know. But, you know, I didn't ever want to quit doing that. We were having too much fun. You know, it was

just, there's something about writing the music and then being able to be the artist that performs it for me that is extremely gratifying it's to be able to there's a connection for sure that people have with your songs and sometimes I feel like as a writer you miss that you don't you don't get the joy of seeing that and when like right now in the spot that this band is in you know I can walk out onto a stage and there's 10,000 people there and they're all smiling from ear to ear and it's because of the music that we created from nothing and that is like holy shit man like

as if I was a songwriter at home I wouldn't be able to feel that it's 10 times the size of your hometown every night you can't you can't really you can't really describe that if you put everyone in your hometown and then cloned them each 10 times every night. Every night. It's an impossible thing to imagine what that's like. Yeah, it's an unreal feeling, man. You kind of break as an artist off of songs that aren't particularly country. Yeah.

And I mean, I think we're both part of the last generation of people who remember aisles and stores but are making music in an environment that has no genre. Right. What makes you country? I think it's, you know, I think for the longest time, I was writing what I thought was country. You know, I was trying to write for country radio. There's a certain, I guess back then, too,

there was a certain, like, kind of unspoken set of rules for a country. What were those? It's just very, like, you know, it has to, the hook has to be, like, really nicely seen. set up and perfectly delivered and put a nice little bow around it and uh there can be no room for interpretation really it's just everything has to be so perfectly clear and i and i was trying to and then also then write about you know boots and trucks and shit like that that i don't i don't really that's not who i am you know um and so and nor was it Shane or Josh or you know these guys um

So when we sort of all collectively made this decision, we talked about it a bunch of just to stop trying to do that and start writing music that we really loved. And that's when we all got attention. So just sort of, I think spending so much time trying to chase those rules, some of it became ingrained in us and became who we were as writers naturally.

And then we were making music that we loved. but there was a little hint of that country thing that was there and I think it is about the storytelling aspect of it The era of what you guys released and then what Sam Hunt

released at the same time which I know you worked on is really becomes kind of like the defining sound for like the next year or two did you feel did you recognize that influence that you were having?

I don't think so, no. Can you recognize it now? I don't think so either. Yeah, I mean, like, break up with him, make you miss me, are like, they're in the same family. Right. You know, and I know that one is you and one Sam. Right.

But they obviously, you were, you can hear the DNA. Right. You know, I don't want to skip too far, but the next album goes from being that into almost like a, I was saying earlier, like it feels like a cold play influence or there's moments of, I don't know, there's almost like Jason Maraz meets cold play with like, you know, to me it doesn't, it was again, I'm going to go and push myself to sound different than the last thing I sounded like. Is that by design or am I just reading too much into it? No, I think some of it is. I think we're always looking to, you know, write something that's, you know, next. It feels like it's next.

Or feels, you know, it's, you don't want to get bored with the same type of thing. But some of it is also just being on the road for so long with the same group of guys. And, you know, we're obviously developing a sort of a sound that is made up of whatever chemistry, the five of us have together. And we write a lot together. And we write a lot together. So we're playing 200 shows a year and there's a certain sound that comes out of that. And I think you just sort of develop into this more bandy type of thing than we were before. Why do you still write for other artists? You know, I still just love writing and I'm not good at, I don't really write for other artists. I just write songs. write songs. And sometimes you're like, ooh, I should do this. Yeah. And, you know, I think we, as a band, too, we try to we try to keep that attitude and just write the best song we can no matter what. And then, you know,

there have been songs that we thought no way would that be an Old Dominion song. And then we play through it and go, actually, that's pretty awesome. We don't have anything like that. And it does sound like us. And then there's songs that we thought for sure were Old Dominion songs, but then we're like, it's actually not us. Right. Did you ever have a song? they were like, is an old Dominion song. And they were like, no, that's not us.

And then it became a hit. Well, we have a song by Michael Ray that's on the charts right now. The one that got away that we were going to cut. And we messed around with it a little bit and didn't cut. And now it's at like 13 or something right now.

He's a nice guy. I like Michael Ray. Yeah, yeah. Shout out to that guy. Yeah. I haven't seen him in a while. Glad to see he's doing well. I say, I want to go through.

a couple other records though. I think song for another time, you do something with your lyrics and I'm trying to figure out if it's you or if it's your co-writers or not, but you have this, to me I think what makes it country and not pop

is there's that one extra layer of like you expect it, you know, the make it sweet, which I know is the current single and whatnot, but where the life is short, make it sweet, and some of these

like kind of twists of phrase I feel like they're made to be on a T-shirt for sure it's like a bumper sticker yeah yeah totally is that to me that feels like what what current country good country is

is like songs that I want to listen to that have still have that moment yeah and the thing that we miss and pop I think a lot of times we're trying to talk about a lot of how do we get, how do we capture the essence of a tour title in a pop song, you know, that's supposed to be about emotion. And in years, there's like all, it's a lot of subtext in the emotion.

And then, you know, the way it still feels like it's wrapped up. Like, to me, it still feels really clear. So it's interesting you were saying, you know, the old country is almost like everything had to be super clear. And either I interpret it a certain way as the listener. because yeah I think we still do

hold on to that some I think we do that's the part of it that sort of became ingrained and it's more it's just kind of happens

now but yeah like and some of it is like you brought up Megit sweet that is just like

that is a t-shirt it is a bumper sticker and that was just something that came out and I wrote down like that's too perfect

to not write. Yeah, yeah. I hope you still have more of that for when we write in a half hour. I mean, I mentioned one-man band. I said that, I said, I told my wife that I thought it's, it reminds me of us because we met where she, I was playing guitar, acoustic guitar, playing a set. Yeah. She came up afterwards, said, hey, you got nice tone and then disappeared. And it was like, it was like her Cinderella moment. That's cool. And I was like, who's this person who said, do you have a nice tone? Like no one says that. Right. You know? She didn't say like, hey, good job. Like, I like that song or something. Like something so specific.

About nice terms. Yeah, yeah. And the idea that we went from being just, you know, incredibly broke to not incredibly broke is just shocking. You know? But I like the idea of going through it together with someone. Yeah. That sounds like a song, and I'm sure it probably took you half a day, but it sounds like a song that you worked on for a long time. Is it not, do you write that quickly?

Yeah, that would happen very fast. Damn. We, um, it's funny. Why? Why do you have this? Yeah, it was, uh, someone was on the bus. It was like, uh, it was like a radio person or something. And I can't remember what he was talking about, but he said one man band. And just the way he said it, I went, it's a really cool idea.

And he walked off the bus and I tapped Brad, our guitar player. And I said, hey, we got to write one man band. and he was like what do you mean and I said trust me I think it's a cool idea and then we were getting ready to go on stage the intro is happening for our we're supposed to be walking on

stage and I went I'll check it out I don't want to be one man we're recording it into the phone oh that's really cool and then we like ran out and played the show and then that sat that idea sat on my phone for probably a month or so and then

yeah but so that's the key though. Yeah. You may have written it very quickly, but that month, there are times where you're revisiting that in your head? We never revisited it.

No, but internally, no? Yeah, yeah, maybe. No? Maybe, but then... Damn. Then we were back out on the road. Give me a bone. Throw me a bone?

Yeah, I don't think I'm rid of it. That's not something I want. Throw me a bone. Give you a bone. Don't do that. Throw me a bound, maybe. That's crazy. Yeah, but then, you know,

and then Josh Osborne came out. on the road with us and we're backstage at some show and in the dressing room and I was like hey remember that idea one of their band and we wrote it I've written

with some a lot of Nashville sessions and gone but one of those sort of rules in the pop world is about how many people can relate to being in a band and my argument is like well the more that you tell your story

the more people find themselves in it. And they start to relate to it. Do you find that when you release a song like that, make it sweet, everyone can relate to it. But one-man band, which I personally relate to, I can't imagine everybody can relate to. Right. Do you find that to be the case now having seen,

performing that for an audience, can you see the difference in that lyric? Or do people put themselves in one-man band, even if they're not. I think you can relate to it as a musician or just as a love story, you know. But I think, too, man, I'd kind of come to that question a lot too sometimes. It's like, is it too inside? Is it too?

Like, do people really know what it's like to be if we write about the road or if we write about being in a band or musician? Is it too inside? But some of it is, man, just social media and everything. Like our job is to actually include everyone and every single thing we do now anyway. So they know details about what it's like anyway. So I think they can relate in that way.

But then if they can't, then I think they do try to, they probably latch on to the love story side of it. Why do you still do this? The easy answer is just because I absolutely love it. I mean, when there's nothing better. really when I write a song I feel so good and when I play a show there's no those are the moments where I know I'm I'm living my purpose and it feels really good and if that goes away then I won't do it anymore but right now it's it's really great on to this next segment we'll call this five for five

it's funny I was talking about this the other day in a session someone's like I hate that you never had a name for that and that you always talk about how you don't have a name for it and it drives me nuts. You need a little like jingle. Yeah. Five four five, five.

Five for five. Five four, five. Oh, weird. See how I just ended up? That's how easy it is, folks. It's been all night working on that. All right, let's go with Trevor. Oh, this is what the deal is.

I'm going to give you a name. You can figure it out. Trevor Rosen. Trevor Rosen is, I would say, he's like a partner in crime for sure. He's a guy that, like, we latched on to each other. We met on stage at a writer's round. He hit it off, and we sort of went,

we rose through all the ranks side by side, even down to the, like, the Ban Perry thing. He got a Ban Perry cut. I got a Ban Perry cut. and they were both up for the first single, and he won out on that one. But we just seemed to always be just kind of joined at the hip. Shane McNally.

Shane McAnally is, like, I could talk until I cried about Shane, because he's just such a beautiful soul and person and creative force. And on top of all of those things, he's a great friend and such a supporter of your dreams. And he's just the best. Josh Osborne. Josh Osborne is, I just think of a smile when I think of Josh. Josh makes me smile.

And also is just such a unique brain. His brain works like no other. And it's quicker than any other brain I know and it's more sensitive than any brain I know. His brain and his heart are one thing. Phil Vassar. Phil Vassar is, I owe some, he's the mentor. He's the guy that will always seem larger than life to me, even though Old Dominion has, it's hard for me to see.

We talk about it sometimes. Old Dominion has grown to levels that are way bigger than he ever got as an artist. but I can't see that. I still see him as this mentor figure that, you know, it's, I'm so thankful that I came across him. I've been a lot. Your wife?

My wife has been through hell and back. She's, she's a great person. And, you know, she's, we were, we were kids and we've grown, and we've grown through this whole, thing sometimes together and sometimes separate. But she's a huge supporter. And I couldn't have done it. I couldn't have done it without her for sure.

Well, thank you for doing this. Thank you for having me. I appreciate your time. Let's steal more of it in a little bit. Yes. We're going to write us on together. But, you know, the idea of being someone who is willing to put their name out there

and attach it to a song. I asked if you get nervous being on stage. I didn't ask if you get nervous when you have a song out, you know, coming out. But I don't think people recognize how brave someone is to put music out, that they're putting themselves out there for strange ridicule.

It's like walking into, you know, some mall naked or something and then just living your life. I mean, it is so strange. Every time your song's put in the ether, other people are listening to it and judging it because people are experts at listening to music. And it's one thing when you write a song and someone else puts it out.

If it doesn't work, climbs up the chart, it goes away and you're back for another day and it's fine. It's a whole other thing when you start building your, when your brand is somehow attached to your music and people, they don't judge just your songs. People will say like, oh, I don't like Taylor Swift. Right, yeah.

Which is not fair. That's not really how it actually works as a songwriter as an artist. You're putting this out because it's fun to put out music and you're willing to be honest. and then someone ridicules it. But I listen to your music and I feel connected to it because it speaks to me.

So as somebody who is on the outside, I appreciate when you write with honesty and I appreciate that, I mean, the fact that I can find, you know, find myself in any of the songs says a lot from a songwriter's perspective. Because it'd be really easy for me to just say, these are just good songs.

But it's not easy for me to be like, hey, Jackie, this is, you know, listen to this, this should be our song. Yeah, yeah. That's a different thing. I can't compliment you more than that from one writer to another. I really appreciate that.

Thank you so much. So thanks again for doing this and excited to write a record with you. Absolutely. Let's get to work for sure. Thanks for listening to this episode of And The Writer is. If you want to hear music from this song writer I just interviewed, be sure to check out our Spotify playlist or visit our website and the writer is.com. If you like what we're doing, please subscribe to us. You can also like

us on Facebook and Twitter. And The Writer Is is produced by Joe London, edited by Miles Berg's mom and published by Big Deal music. A special thanks to David Silverstein from Mega House Music and Michael White. Until next time, this is Ross Golden.