And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan - Ep. 65: Wyclef Jean

Episode Date: June 24, 2019

The music that our Season 4 finale guest has written, performed, and produced — both as a solo superstar and as founding member of the Fugees — has been consistently powerful and a pop cultural force for over two decades. In 1996, his band the Fugees released their monumental album ‘The Score’. As a solo artist, he has released eight albums that have sold nearly nine million copies worldwide, including his 1997 debut ‘The Carnival’ and 2000’s aptly titled ‘The Eclectic: 2 Sides II a Book’. His album, ‘Carnival III: The Fall and Rise of a Refugee’, was named one of the “25 Most Anticipated Albums” of the fall by Billboard Magazine that year. And his recent release, ‘Wyclef Goes Back To School Volume 1’ is a collaboration with students he met while touring the United States and visiting colleges across the country. He is a 3 time Grammy award winner who has worked with mega stars such as Whitney Huston, Santana, Mary J. Blige, Shakira, Mick Jagger, Paul Simon, Missy Elliott, Destiny’s Child and more. As a highly esteemed musician, he has undoubtedly influenced the artistry of musicians all over the globe. With his ethos centered around nurturing and growth, he has persistently made efforts to make positive changes, whether that be by holding charitable events, running for presidency in Haiti or just using his music to make others aware of actualities that don’t get enough media coverage. Live from South by Southwest, And The Writer Is…Wyclef Jean!This episode is sponsored by SONOS. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Season 4 of And the Writer is. I'm your host, Ross Golan. I've written with hundreds of artists and writers over the years, and my favorite part of each session is the first hour when we catch up about life, the industry, politics, composition, whatever. So this is a journey of learning why people write songs, how people write songs, and most importantly, who the people are who write the songs.

I'm producing this with the Great Joe London, big deal music publishing and mega house music management if you want to listen to the songs we discuss in this podcast follow us on our socials find out about special events or buy some of our merchandise go to our website www www.m.com oh and if you enjoy and the writer is is please rate and subscribe to us on apple podcasts Spotify or whatever your preferred podcast listening site is Hey, I don't know what kind of speakers you listen to in your house, but recently my friends at Sonos sent me a speaker.

I took it out of the box, I downloaded the app, and sure enough, I had the clearest speaker I've ever had in my living room. You know, the vocal clarity was there, the bass was thumping, it was exactly what I want my music to sound like. It sounds like the music that I'm recording in the studio. So get yourself a Sonos speaker at www. sonos.com. You can listen to your Apple, Spotify, whatever your streaming service is, or you can listen to the music you record in the studio, and I promise you, you won't be sorry with the quality that

you get from Sonos. Thanks again from my friends of Sonos for sending me a speaker. I appreciate it. Go to www.sonos.com. Welcome to Anne the Writer is. I am your host, Ross Golin. Today's legend, producer, actor, instrumentalist, philanthropist, has not just top charts since the 1990s, but has etched his name in the pantheon of greatest musicians of the last 30 years. Immigrating to Brooklyn, New York, at the age of 10,

this reggae and jazz aficionado took his rooted influences and founded arguably the most influential hip-hop group of the most influential era of the most influential genre. Damn! Then, after that band, this Fuji went solo,

wrote hits for himself before co-writing songs like Maria Maria for Santana and Hips Don't Lie for Shakira. He's worked across genres with everyone from Young Thug, Whitney Houston, Lil Wayne Avici, Major Laser, Quincy Jones,

Willie Nelson, Timbalin, Mick Jagger, Queen, and Moore. He's a multi-platinum, multi-grammy award winner and has sold more than 100 million albums worldwide all the way from Haiti this politician has found genuine meaning in this crazy industry

and the writer is one time, one time Wyclef John! Yo, what up, yo, I'm going to sample that whole thing. I mean, it literally should start at least one of the albums that you have coming out

which I know there's so much my whole show from now on, bro. Did. I'm so in. Yeah. So you were born? Yes. I was born one day.

Yes. I actually was born in Haiti. Yeah? Yeah, I was born in Haiti. In a small village. And like the alchemist, you know what I mean? It's just, I always tell people, they were like, yo, what part of Haiti are you from, right?

Because, like, Jamaica, people don't understand. Like, Haiti's really big. and the capital of Haiti's Port of Prince, like in Jamaica we say Kingston. Jamaica and I said, well, I was born in Haiti but so far inside of Haiti that it would be hard to get out of Haiti.

Like I was born in a tiny, tiny village. It's called Lecerre and it's a code where they use a dirt village. And the biggest thing in my village was a cemetery, literally. Crazy. And you're the son of a

preacher, man. I'm just a son of Be to Man. Yeah. I mean, for real, right? Yeah, my daddy, you know, at the time in Haiti, they were giving, so through the immigration laws, because it was a little more softer than it is today. My daddy got a visa to go preach in the United States. He was the Nazarene minister.

So he left me at the age of one. He came in. Actually, my name, Wycliffe John, is at a. actually I was named after an Englishman, the original translation of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. That's John White Cliff. So my dad was a theologist nut. You know what I'm saying to you? Like, he was all about that.

And he got to America, man, and bought us over like 10 years later, me and my brother. Was he the kind of preacher who did music around the house? and I'm envisioning him just being you, but older and singing and kind of, you know. Yeah. I don't know. Like, where did you learn how to do music? In the middle of nowhere, Haiti, it's not where, you know, that's, like you're saying, it's like the alchemist.

Like, how did you learn music in that environment? Who's teaching you? Well, the music comes from the village, you know, and it's like the best form of music because it's all acoustic. everything that you hear, you're learning it from nature. You know what I mean? So, no live here, nobody comes out, because I don't buy, nobody, nobody, eh,

nobody goes to nobody, go, go, no palet. So you just come up and you're hearing all of these chants and, you know, that vibe. It just, you just, it feels like it's part of you, you know. And I remember when I bought Angelina Jolie to Haiti, and the first thing she said, she was like, yo, Clef, this feels like Africa, right? Because what happens is Haiti was the first Black Republic, right, to get its independence,

but it never lost like the African roots. It's almost like sometimes you in Haiti, you can also feel like you're in parts of Brazil, like Bayer. Like, it's just like so deep rooted. And I would say like the music is within you. So your grandma gives you black. like two cents every Sunday for you when you're walking to church, right? So this village had a church.

So literally you walk three steps and you're at the church. You know what I'm saying? And you get in the church and they're singing, man. And the singing just it made me feel a certain way. So by the time, I always said like at a young age, the orchestra lived in my head. Right. So imagination, when you grow up with nothing, you have nothing. I always tell people me and my brother

we were so poor we used to eat red dirt from the floor and he's a lawyer today so he if he was here he'd be like yeah it was red dirt but it was mineral dirt you know what I mean like he always justifies everything so for me that was the gist of it

the orchestra just lived in my hair from a young age man when you immigrated you probably flew into JFK something like that right because you went straight to New York right yeah the first time I ever seen an airplane in my life yeah yeah like in the village

the the planes was so high we didn't call them airplanes we thought they were birds and we can hear the sound coming and I mean when we would hear it we used to use slingshots so like that's one of the things like I'm like really from that village man

So we would make slingshots from branches, you feel me? And so at times, dude, we'd be like so hungry, but we lived through imagination. So, yo, the planes, right, is so high. Could you imagine, like, I never knew what an airplane was. So when it was coming, we would hear it, right? And then I would be like, I'm always like the leader of my village with all the kids, the bad kid. And then I said, me guzwa zo

am fini translation the big bird is coming everybody assumed position so we figured if we can use the slingshot and shoot the bird from the ground from the air you know

today it'd be called terrorism but I'm saying like back then you know what I'm saying to you and then it's survival yeah back then the idea is could you imagine so imagination was like if we can

shoot this bird from the air and it came we would actually have enough food to cook for the entire village so can you imagine when i actually got on a real airplane um how i felt yo i'm gonna tell you some real shit you ready ready check this out right i got to take my hat off so yeah i'm still swaggy so peep it so in the village i ain't never seen no white person before in my village in my Like, so literally in Haiti, we call it Blunt, right? Just like the Indians, like the white man, like blunt. That's how you call it because you don't know. So one day, a suburb Jeep pulls up in a village and the Jeep opens up, right?

When the Jeep opened up. So this is my first time seeing like a white person ever in my life and he walks out of the car. So, and then he pops the trunk and he gets all of that. these rice. It's like bags of rice and he's bringing it to the village. And then I look at my grandma and I'm like in Creon, I'm like, yo grandma, who is this? Right? And she looked at me, she said, is Jesus Christ? Right. So in Creole, she said, say, jezreel, right? So then I was like, oh man. So then I met Jesus. So Jesus came and he bought, he bought us some rice and everything. In a Jeep.

Right? So then, so then Jesus leaves, right? So now I never see Jesus again. But now this is what's interesting. Next time, now, to your point, airplane first time, right? This whole thing looks like a UFO. Me and my brother, we go in, we sit down. We don't speak no English, right? My dad comes against us and we're sitting. And now I see mad people, mad white people. people, right? This is my first time seeing white people. I don't even know. And my brother looks at me and he goes, so the woman comes and she goes, you know, would y'all like something to drink and we can't speak English? So I look at my dad and he says in Creole, they're asking y'all, would y'all like something to drink? So then my brother looks at me and he goes, yo man, man, who are all these people? And I said, stupid, these are Jesus Christ cousins, man? You feel what I'm saying? Are you an idiot? Like, you know what I'm saying? Are you a idiot? Like, you know what I'm saying? These are Jesus cousins, man. They came to get us.

So it's mad, funny, but at the same time, it just shows you the reality of like where we came from and where we lived. So the idea of like what you said, landing into JFK and seeing the Twin Tower, like these kind of images

and seeing like the lights in the city. For us, it was just like mind-boggling. man. You were saying earlier while we were in the greenish room, you were telling the story about how you would, we asked if you had a vinyl collection and you were like, yeah, I had a vinyl collection because all the drug dealers needed beats. So explain how your career starts as a producer. So I came from Haiti when I was 10 and I kid you not, by the time. By the time, time I was 15 years old, I was in the studio with Curtis Blow. Well, how, wait, who, who teaches you at 13 that this is a good idea? And, you know,

how do you get from 10 to being in a studio like that? That's insane. Yeah, at 15, I'm in the studio, right? So the way it happened was we get to the projects in Brooklyn. So when we get to Brooklyn, man, it's called Marlboro Projects. in Coney Island. And at the time, the, the, the, the, the, the, uh, the mob was running the projects. You feel me? Like, Coney Island. So like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you're a young buck. And, um, and a mob is heavy. You feel me? So you had a young age and you just trying to figure things out. You barely could speak English, right? So I think like a lot of the wise guys in the neighborhood, they took like a natural likeness towards me, because I had that whole.

immigrant flair, you know what I'm saying to you? Because you understand, like, if you get caught and you can't speak English, you can't say nothing. You feel what I'm saying to you? So I remember down the block, boom, boom, I'm hearing like this crazy music. And I'm like, is this coming out of a car or something? And then I remember my father pulling my ear. And he's like, and I'm like, what the hell did I do? And he's like, do not ever.

Listen to this stuff. this stuff is drug dealer music i never want you to listen to this stuff then i was like you know what we scenes right so what your parents tell you not to do you're like oh man let me go explore so you know i go to the neighborhood so this was my introduction to the the neighborhood and seeing what everyone was listening to so um so they a cousin of mine got killed in brooklyn um and then you know it was that was coming for me, a bunch of craziness. So my daddy moved us to New Jersey. And the reason my father moved us to New Jersey,

because he assumed this would be a step up from the ghetto. You feel me? And he couldn't speak English too well. So one day he was just driving a car, and this was what made him decide that he was going to move us to Jersey, because my daddy's a farmer. And he's driving towards somewhere called 280, and then it says, Garden State.

so he assumed like oh the garden state i'm just going to move to farmland right so he moves us to the garden state dude and and the garden state is like newark new jersey you feel what i'm saying to you like worse than brooklyn you feel what i'm saying to you so automatically uh survival kicks in right because you have to figure it out so i would say my father had a vision to put a church in the hood and his idea was it was would be the first multilingual church that would speak multiple languages, English, French, and Creole. He puts this church in the worst section of the ghetto. And within that now, I have to find a way to, you know, get people not to steal the cars in the neighborhood, you know,

and if they steal the cars, I got to get the cars back, you feel me? And my dad literally would look at me with no fear in a block where people are getting shot and killed. And he would look at me in the eyes and he you know he's preaching you literally can hear my dad and he's like he's inside of the church and he's like and the lord he's coming the lord is coming and while you hear that outside you hear and he looks at me that means to go get the car back somebody just stole a car you feel what i'm saying to you so in all of this you're trying to find different things that kids could relate to so i found that kids were fascinated by the fact that i could play different instruments. So, and then I was a choir director. So I figured if I could do music for the

neighborhood, then I wouldn't have to be on the block doing this. And that was really like my introduction. Like, I literally would go to the block and be like, yo, if you want to beat, you know what I'm saying to you? Like, come to the book of basement and, you know, you make your little cards and you pass them out. And one thing I had in East Storage, my cousin to tell you, we never locked our basement door. Like we was living in the back. There's a crack house in the back. And then there's a, we had a Kentucky fried chicken. And then we're in the middle of the hood. And they know my rules. Never ever have I locked my basement. So in a neighborhood where, you know, crack fiends could come in and out. I've never, ever locked the door. I mean, they all know like Johnny Cash, we had a shotgun,

but they never necessarily would come. Because I always always, felt like you have to get the neighborhood to trust you. And the only way that they're going to trust you is to open your arms to them. And I made it to Curtis Blow because in Newark, New Jersey, we had a school program. And in the school program, every summer they was giving internships. And I scored an internship at CBS Records. And internship, you know, you go every summer, you're putting out mail. And I was the guy that literally I would talk you to death, you feel me and tell you I'm the best guy in the world like Muhammad Ali so I'm like yo yo Curtis I'm dope man and it's like yo bust something and I was like yo I'm so ill Curtis I can rhyme in five languages

just what I told Curtis Blow and he was like what and then he was like go and I was like Look, amiga, Buenos Dias, signorita, how are you and your family? I'm doing in the microphone.

I'm sorry as well as Curtis Blowman, you still ain't convinced. You might get convinced when I flip it in French.

When I imagine the value of love of love, I don't think or or my. He's like, okay, okay,

this guy is different. He bought me in the studio at 15 years old. And, uh, I would have brought you to the studio. You would have brought you.

You would have? You would have. You would have. That was the start Was it good This first song you wrote Not at all What was the first song you wrote?

It was it good Do you know what it was? I mean knowing that you just did that You probably know it The first song you wrote Yeah well the first song that I wrote Was in the village And I

What was that called? I could not remember it But my aunt does And yeah she She always asks me Who was Coley Bo-W And I'm like

I don't have no idea who's Colabois. She's like, because when you was four years old, you came up to me and you was like, listen to this song and you just kept saying, Colibou, Colibu, Coleybo, Wo, I don't know who Colébovo is, Auntie. So apparently that was my first song. You know what I'm saying to you?

You studied, you studied jazz. You studied all kinds of music. I mean, this is not, you know, it's really, especially for when we were younger, that's a pretty elevated form of music for what our entire generation was listening to. I mean, none of us were listening to it

unless someone was saying like you should get into Miles Davis. You should get into Coltrane. You should get into that. Who's introducing you to that kind of music? Was your dad into jazz? Was it his teacher? Who opens that door for you?

It was a high school teacher. So like in high school, I was in the auditorium. and I used to always wear like my goose down and my scully because I just wanted to be the best battle rapper in the school and that's what made me cool. Were you? Yeah, I was tough. Yeah, for sure.

So I'm on the side and I'm playing these chords on piano. You feel me? And she walks in there and she's like, what are you doing? And I was like, I'm just playing these chords. And she was like, do you know what you're playing? And I was like, no. she was like you don't know what you're playing i was like i don't know what i'm playing and she was like

what do you see when you play these chords and now keep in mind i don't know nothing about theory yet or nothing she was like what do you see i say i see numbers and then so she's like what do you mean you see numbers then i started quoting numbers i was like for example i don't even have to hit this chord but in my head i could see like one three five seven And she was like, do one, three, five, seven. So I started doing all of these strange things on piano. And she was like, tomorrow you're starting jazz. And I was like, I ain't going to jazz.

That's for old people. I'm a battle rapper. And she was like, and I was like, oh, man, this teacher's going to ruin my life. And so she puts me in jazz, and this is what's ill. She was like, but you're not going to play piano. She was like, I know you play a lot of different. instruments so you're going to start off with bass. And I was like, I was like, okay.

And I was happy because I was like, oh, bass is way easier than piano. So tomorrow I bring my electric bass. And she was like, no, you're going to start with upright. And dude, I mean, it's so funny because you can look online and see me at 17 years old and Eric B and Raq Kim video playing upright, bass. And so she starts me with upright. The reason why she started me with upright, the bass notes are the easiest to follow in sheet music, as you know. So, and that literally opened my head up to Mous Davis Bitches, Brue, our Blakey, the loniest monk.

And then it was sort of like I was just fascinated with how complicated and cool the music sounded and how fast you can move your mind and how quick you can move. you dig so that's what got me into jazz you know what would you consider your first break you know i mean at this point you're already you know you've gone through internships you've met people people undoubtedly must start knowing who you are in the neighborhood if you're already doing what you're doing so what what's the thing that kind of is like oh yeah maybe this is actually a living and not you know not just somebody who's just trying to make music in a basement Well, I was barely 18 and my man in the hood said, look, Atlantic Records, which was called Big Beat Records, they have, they need a vocalist for a song that a DJ has. And we told them that there's a Haitian kid who's, you know, who's an alien. He'd be perfect.

So I was like, okay. So I go in a studio in New York City. And I remember Claire because Nelson Mandela had just got out of prison. So I was so inspired to write a song against this house song. So that it was a house beat. And I jumped in the booth, put on my headphones, and I was like, How tough the jungle, here we go. Where, where, where, here we go.

And I killed it. And I think he gave me $400. And you have to understand, man, you from the hood, $400. This is going to get me like some pumas, like a sweatsuit, a fake chain from Canal Street and New York. Like, this is me. So I leave. Now, when I leave, this song, right, starts to blow up. It's going to freak everybody out after I say this and everyone goes Google this shit.

So I leave and apparently years later, my man say, so this is like right before I started the Fugees, right? So three years probably, my man, after this, my man said, yo, did you have a twin in like 89, 90? And I was like, no, I had no twin. He's like, yo man, there's a kid who sound just like you, but he's from Africa. And I'm like, what? And he's like, yo, you have to listen to this record. And he sends me the record, and the record is out of the jungle. Here we go.

Well, well. So, apparently, when I left the studio that day, the producers and the DJs that was around, I was like, yo, what was his name? And dudes was like, yo, we don't know, man. But he sound African. All right. So let's just call him Afri-Cali, right? So literally, if you're listening right now,

you can literally, like, go online and listen to why Clef's twin, right? So the record is called Out of the Jungle featuring Afri-Calry. And then it was a house record. Incredible. So for me, though, what that did was it let me know that I can have an end inside of like I could be doing bigger things than just like I was like yo if this thing if I made $400 from this and this thing is blown up on the underground

to the point where these guys couldn't find me and made a fake name for me maybe I can do something with my life you know yeah um that worked um so then the Fugees hey the Fugees I mean come on It really is obviously a game changer, not just for you, but for everybody. Yeah.

Just tell the story of how the Fuji started. And then, you know, I know, we got a lot to get to. So I don't know how you condensed one of the best projects in my lifetime, but knock yourself out. I think the best way to just condense it is just to say the first album, which was called Blunted on reality. from the Fugees failed miserably so the score was actually the second album

So the first album was called Blundering on Reality The Fugis was signed We were signed to a production Production music label called La Jam And La Jam Owners were Cooling the Gang

It was like Calise Bayon Cooling the Gang And the album was called Blund it on reality. So. Wait, how did you first go back to like, you meet Lauren? Oh, yeah. Like, who are these people that you're like, oh, yeah, let's start this project.

So I'm in, I'm in my daddy's church. I get a call from Price. And Price always has a hustle. Like, we call Price Dirty Cash in the Hood. And Price is like, yo, man, I'm in the studio, man, with these two girls, right? And I was thinking, I'm doing this record, but it sound like I need some kind of a reggae hook. Do you think you could? I said, man, look, man, I'm going to try to sneak out the church.

Tell me where you're at. So I get to this studio, and it's my other man in the hood that'd be doing these demos. So I see two girls. One of them is Lauren Hill, and the other is Marcy. And one of them sounded like Nina Simone, and the other one sounded like. Mariah Carey, like 15, 16 years old. Do you understand what I'm saying to you? So everybody's in the hood. And I was like, so you know, it's like I'm spunky. I'm from my daddy's church. So I just wanted to show off to the girls. So I was like, yo. And then, you know, I could speak proper English like this. But I figured it'd be cool. I think the girls would think it was sexy.

because if I talked in an accent so I never spoke proper when I walked in there. I was like, yeah, no problem. Yeah, just let the tip roll. Roll the tip, roll the tip. And they was like, oh, my God, do you hear his accent? And then said, they wrote the tape. And then I did my thing.

And then the birth of the Fugees was the producer that was in there, Kalees Bayon, who did like Jungle Boogie. for cooling the gang, all of the real hard cooling the gang stuff. He did, so he was one of the mentors. And when he played the tape back, it ain't like the music was good yet, right? But he heard something that none of us can hear. He heard fusion.

And he was like, yo, when you put this voice with this voice, something's going on. And he was like, yo, y'all should be a group. So he convinced us to become a group, signed to La Jam, and do the first project with him. And one of the girls ended up leaving Marcy because her mother was like, look, this music thing is not working out. So you need to go to college and you have to leave the group. So, I mean, we all cried because we all loved each other. You know what I'm saying?

Do you keep in touch with her at all? I seen Marcy like three years ago. Like she was doing like, she made it in her university. Okay. And then she did some stuff off Broadway. You know what I mean? So she was really But you know her parents made her leave

She didn't want to leave So then we were stuck with the three of us And and Kalees Bayonne produced The first album which was called Blunted on Reality And And the interesting part about when he was doing that album I felt like You know like the kid in the science class

That knows the answer to the equations but like you can't really say much because it's a professor and you don't want to go up there and like you know be like yo but I think the math for calculus should be this so I told calise to take me as a mentor and he took me as a mentor and I was like I'm gonna learn as much as I can from this guy from cooling the gang because I mean they're banging out the hits Joanna and all of that the thing about what he was producing and when I went back to my neighborhood what we were listening to was two different things. Like,

my hood wasn't listening to No, Joanna. Like, they was listening to Kooji Rap. You know what I'm saying to you? So the first album did not do well. And we thought it was over. Sony literally was about to drop us, man. Did you want to give up?

Or were you like, no, whatever, you guys just don't understand. I'm doing another album. No, we couldn't. I mean, where I come from, I couldn't give up. I'm from the village. So for me, I just looked at everything as an opportunity, even a failure. I said, well, people are paying attention. So let's, you know, we're going to give it a shot. And the reason why the second album is called the score is because I was

like, we're about to settle the score. They don't want to pay attention. We're going to make them pay attention. And I was like, okay, well, you know, forget that production company. You know, I have a few ideas. So at the time I was listening to a lot of Pink Floyd, the wall, I was engineering a lot. So I wanted to create something with a lot of space in it. I was listening to Miles Davis Bidges Brew. The only problem was we couldn't afford it, right? So how the hell am I going to create an album that you love, right? I can't get into a studio with a Neve board. I can't get into nuts. So we bought a bunch of like garage cell equipment because we like, they call us the thug nerds. So any like, let me have. Let me have.

have a tech talk real quick for my my my my thug nerds so we bought a four five six impex reel with 24th channel and as you know the 24th channel is for the sympathy and literally sort of like queen what we did was that's how i recorded the fuji so literally we would be bouncing like 15 tracks you know like not too far to the 24th track so we don't get the um sympathy leakage and And literally, so send that back to track one. So then it'd be like 15 tracks on track one. And then we would go with track two because, you know, we couldn't really afford things. The second thing, when you listen to Killing Me Softly, it was like one time, two time.

If any musician goes now and try to play their instrument, which is tuned to standard 4040, sorry, and you try to play with Killing Me Softly, you have to literally detour. your instrument. And you'd be like, what the hell? Like, why do I have to detune my instrument? Well, let me tell you why. The reason why is I couldn't afford a fender roads, right? So what I did was I could afford a S-900 Akai. So what I did was I midi-di-D-A-Ki to the VFX keyboard, right? and I use the S-9-100 oscillator that would be the tone, right? Triggered it back on the VFX and then I cut the tone. And so once I cut the tone back on a VFX, when I hit it, it sounded like a Fender Rhodes,

but it wasn't a Fender Rhodes. All I did was put a little EQ on it. And so it's detuned because it's really a sine wave that when I, if I paid more, attention, I would have put it at 440, but I think it was like at 438. And so I apologize if you can't, if you have to detune your instruments. You know what I mean? It's screwed with people who did karaoke everywhere, I'm sure, because like those machines like naturally tuned to certain things and there are probably people who are just constantly

sharp saying trying to the scene of that. It's fantastic. Great prank. Hey guys. So as you know, we are giant audio files. here because, well, we make music for a living. So one thing I've learned in the last year is you need to have speakers at home that sound like speakers you have in the studio, but obviously the speakers you have in a studio are probably going to cost you an arm and a leg. So you need to get

speakers at home that are as transparent and are as clear as what you record your music on. Because when you're going to play music for your friends, they need to sound like you want them to be heard. So my friends at Sonos just sent me some speakers and they're incredible. You don't realize how easy it is to set up. Basically, you take it out of the box, you turn on your phone, you'll, you download the app. You go on the app and you can control the whole thing there, Spotify, Apple, whatever you want to, you know, stream. It's so easy to use. I recommend you going and grabbing, you know, grab at least one. You can grab as many as you want after that and it's just easy to add them to your system.

So that's at sonos.com. Again, that's sonos.com. Thank you so much for supporting us. Did your dad, did your brother, did your family recognize at that point how successful you had become? I mean, what point does your family say, oh, maybe this isn't, I mean, what was their process? What were the people around you?

I mean, obviously there were a bunch of people rooting for you, but there's one think when everyone's rooting for you and I'm sure there are a lot of aspiring people in this room where they've got a community rooting for them to be successful but it's a journey and at what point did they realize I think Clef made it

I think my dad who he passed away I mean God bless him he was not into what I was doing like that wasn't his thing his idea in bringing us to America is we would be a preacher.

He wanted me to be a minister, and he had a plan laid out for me and my brother. So literally we was going to become like lawyers and engineers, and we would be following after his footstep doing the ministry. So when it was time to go to Christian College, I like ran away from home and went to Long Island. My brother ended up, he was the good kid. He ended up going to law school.

and finishing. But I would say like between my brother in law school and me with the Fuji's trying to figure things out and my father having his church we scuffled a lot. So it was a period

he wasn't talking to me and he worked for a company called Don Warnock he would do the mechanic work and also drive the cars like cross country and one day he was at

Don Warner doing some mechanic work, right? It's my daddy. And I'm a Fuji. My daddy's just chilling. And one of the guys is like, Pastor, you look like this big superstar. Your forehead. Do you have the same forehead? It's like, my dad is mad confusing. He's like, who? And he's like, why cleft John? And then my dad's like, that's my son. And he's like, no, if that's your son, You don't work here because he's a millionaire, right? So my dad, I never forget to call. So later, man, he called me on the phone. Like basically, what do you do for a living?

You know what I mean? So I was like, dad, remember, I told you I didn't want to be a preacher, but I'm going to use words the same way, but it's just going to be different. So I'm with a little group, you know, it's called the Fugees. And I said, I'm following your footsteps, but just different. and and he was like okay come to the house and when I came to the house I was going back on tour and he gave me a Billy Graham biography and he was like yo take this Billy Graham book with you so I took the Billy Graham book with me and then and then I think like four weeks later I made like my first like one

million dollars like like a check it was like one million and the first thing I did was I went to my mama and I was like, you know, about to buy your house for a million dollars. You know what I mean? And I bought my mama and my daddy a crib for with my first million. And I think afterwards my dad still ain't come to the shows. You know what I'm saying to you? And the only show my father ever went to was probably one of my most iconic shows till today because I tricked them. So as we talk about the jazz roots.

I never wanted to be popular, just to be honest with you. I always wanted to be the best jazz musician in the world. So, but pop culture changed that. So I was like, I wanted to play Carnegie Hall because I was like, you do not get respect until you play Carnegie Hall in my world. So what I did was I wanted to create my version of Porky and Best, like Gershwin. So I called up at the time all of my friends. So I had a wish list.

I called Eric Clapton. I called Charlotte Church. I called Stevie Wonder, Whitney Houston, Beyonce, everybody. Yeah, when I call my friends, too, I'm like, yo. You feel me? Like, you hit your friends. Be, come over. Come over, right?

I'm about to do a show. B, Sting, everybody. And it's on... The whole village. Exactly. And it changed my life. It was called Wyclef and Friends at Carnegie Hall. If you haven't seen this,

I took the entire sheet music from beginning to end. And my father showed up. And he showed up because he thought I was doing a gospel concert. You know what I'm saying? But once I knew I had him there, I mean, I got to tell you, Stevie, everyone was there. But I stopped the night and was like, yo, I'm so happy because I saw my dad there. And to me, that was like one of the best things in the world, you know? And then he comes backstage.

And my dad reminds me a little bit of Mr. Miyagi, like wax on wax on. because you always like, dude, just talk straight, man. Don't give me like a riddle or a fiddle, dog. You know, and he goes, do you know when you make it? I'm like, oh, here we go again. He said, you know when you made it when the arena shows up and they don't see the color, they see the man. Wow.

So, very deep. I don't think they like what my dad said. Oh, y'all good, all right? No, I just said. I want to talk about some of the writing and producing you've done outside of, you know, well, before we get into that, let's go to the solo stuff. After the Fugees, why do you guys start doing solo music? And then obviously both of you became really successful, both of you being you and Lauren as solo artists. You know, why did you guys decide to end after the score? And you guys still had a working relationship. Yeah. And it was on my next project. Yeah, exactly. So. Why not continue with the Fugees? Because, I mean, it was 20 million strong, right?

So crazy. But remember, the gold for me was, it was not fame. Because when you like 20 million strong, and this is what I tell every artist, this is going to be like to make it a break it moment. Like, you have to defy them and say, No, no, no, my next project is going to be the most artistic project that's going to come out of my mind because we didn't do the score chasing numbers. We did the scores coming up with a creative.

So if I have a creative idea, I'm going to support it. So the label thought I was crazy, man. They thought I was on acid, man. Because when I came and I delivered the carnival, bro, the carnival is in five languages. And it had from disco to what people consider Afrobeasts today to folk music to Latin music to everything. And then they thought I was out of my mind. And the carnival literally that I wanted to do an album where now I could paint the picture of my brain. And it's called the carnival because I was celebrating culture around the entire world.

So it was, I wanted to do a project that could show people how much alike we are versus, you know, because when you have Celia Cruz on Guantanamera and then you have Bob Dylan appear in your video and gone to November, right? It just shows how close we really are. So that, that's why I ended up doing that project. One of the things that I try to talk a lot on the podcast and just doing legislation stuff is that it's our general. generation's job to tear down the walls between genres. And since there are no aisles in stores anymore, the idea of genres is specific to radio and to some playlists. But for the most part, we don't listen anymore to genres. And it's sort of our responsibility as creators, I think,

to show how similar all this music is and how human it is. And the more you use influences from different people, the more it sounds like 2020. So I like that. Anyway, okay, so let's go to Whitney Houston. I mean, come on. That's pretty crazy. You write with Whitney Houston. Massive hit. My love is your love. Kind of the, maybe the end of her, like really major reign. What was it like working with her at that point? Well, I mean, Whitney's incredible. She's from Jersey. I'm from Jersey.

We both had a spiritual, like, relationship, like, knowing what it's like to be raised in the church. And Clive Davis, who's one of my mentors, he approached me and was like, yo, you know, I need a song for Whitney. And we're closing the album. And I was like, how long I got, you know, barely two hours. That's how Clive gives you. You know, and I go and I sit on the piano. And to your point, I was like, well, I'm just going to write the most honest song for Whitney right now because I didn't feel like some of the material that was coming. I was like, and then I was looking at some of the press and was like, so then I sat on the piano and I was like, you know, if tomorrow's judgment day, I'm standing on the front line.

And the Lord, you know, my love is your love. And I did the demo and I sent it to Clive. He sent it to Whitney. And you know, you're nervous, right? this is Whitney and I'm waiting for the, you know, I was in the hood, like, I believe the choosing all the future. So, and she hit me back and she was like, I love this song. And I got, I went in the studio with Whitney and I even recorded Bobby Brown. Okay, so here's something you might know about, not know about the Whitney record. So what was incredible about the Whitney

session. I was in there with Whitney, Whitney's daughter, with Bobby, right? All three of them, with me, right? I'm a cousin. Now, I started, Whitney starts to record this and, and I'm like, okay, come on, Bobby, you're going to jump on backgrounds. And I mean, that's still Bobby Brown, right? So at the end of the day, I record Bobby Brown on background, tucked his vocals real low. I didn't tell Clive any of That's right. And meanwhile, I saw the relationship with Whitney and her daughter. And then I gave Whitney daughter the microphone. And I'm rolling the tape.

And I was like, do you want to say anything to your mommy? And the mic's in her hand. And she don't know. She's being recorded. And then she's like, sing, mommy. So when you listen to my love, your love again. Now, you see, I gave you this scientific. side of it. So when you hear the record, now you pay attention, you're going to hear Bobby in

background, and then you're going to hear Whitney's daughter out of nowhere, says sing Mommy. So for me, what the best thing I loved about that session is my Whitney Houston, last experience with her, was with the entire family. So no one could take that from me, the Whitney that I know and the Whitney that I feel and the Whitney that I loved and spent time with, you know. It's crazy. Yeah, I mean, so much of recording is even if it's going to be digital, it's going to be edited now. I mean, obviously that's maybe not digital at the time.

But the idea of creating a moment and capturing that and being confident in having some of those things that may not make sense is what makes it unique. Maria Maria, which recently has been sampled and is now, so you get two number one songs off of the first number one song. Man, that's crazy. Because supernatural, you know, it's like, it's one thing when you have, you know, you had songs on huge, huge, huge albums. Supernatural's got to be as big as any other album that you've been on.

I mean, it's just stupid big. Do you feel at this point that you can do no wrong? Is there a part of you that starts to have, do you have any question whether you're going to, you know, do you realize what kind of run you're having? Do you think of it as a run? I mean, what is it like at that point? Because you've now had, you know, five years or something like that. It just kind of smashes. Well, I think the real run that I look for, you know, my mentor is Quincy Jones. First time I got a chance to go to Montrose Jazz Festival was with Q. And, you know, we, we there. And, you know, I come out and I perform. And I have conversations with Q. So I'm 49.

Like, so it's like Q ain't do like Thriller to use like 50, 3, 54. So the way that I look at it is like the reason why Q is my goal is because from scoring films, like the first movie I scored was Life. with Eddie Murphy and Martin Lawrence, you know? So I'm watching the Oscars, you know what I mean? And then now I have another goal, do you feel me? So I'm just like, now it's almost like you have to have someone that you look up to. So I've never, I never count numbers and I never look at it like, oh, you did this or you did that. I'm always on like, you know, what is the next thing?

What is the next focus and what's the next passion? So I think for me, that's how I look at it. at it but I'll tell you real talk when I did killing me softly and I made somebody else like over like seven million dollars that was my first time being introduced like you could make somebody else's song hot and you know what I'm saying I mean it was good for us because we toured made a lot of money but it's like I was like man I'd rather be on the side of the guy who's somewhere just chilling in his crib and then you know what I'm saying every time I go one time I go one he goes to the bank and he's like ching-ching you know what I'm saying so I wanted to be on seven million

times yeah so I wanted to be on that side so me and DJ Khalid we friends but we're like real friends like almost like first time I met Khalid I was like 19 so we like have a heavy connection so when he hit me up and was like yo I need to to do Maria Maria I have an idea for me and Rihanna. And then he was like, yo, but Carlos Santana, you know, could you get to him? Because, you know, Santana's like, that's another one of my godfathers. And Santana don't clear nothing. That's like Prince, you know what I mean? But, you know, being like I own like 75% of that record, it still was important to get the blessing of the godfather. So when we called Santana and I put Santana with Khalid, it was just like beautiful, man, I'd say.

So nuts. Going back to killing me softly and that era, I did ask on my Instagram, I said, does anybody have any questions to ask you? And my friend Ryan Tudder, singer from Warner Public, classic writer-producer, said, does Wyclef like Sister Act 2 as much as we do? That's a good question. Well, tell him not only do I love. like Sister Act, you have to understand while Lauren was doing Sister Act, we was on the phone like every day. So she was like literally like, yo, I'm about to do this thing, you know, with Whoopi. So what was crazy about Sister Act was the Fugis is rolling, right? And we rehearsing, we're doing our thing. And now I go to New York and I'm doing an off-Broadway play.

She goes to California. She's doing Sister Act. So it was ill because if you just look at it, it like we never stop so there's constant things going on so for me she's like yo I'm doing something with Whoopi you know what I'm saying and it's going to be good and then so every day I would get reports on sister act before

it even came out okay so we only have like eight minutes left so I'm going to rush through you know you got a bunch of more hits more hits more hits some other songs that one's a hit okay and then you so tell me about why

Clef goes back to school, which is right now. Explain what that is in like a minute. Okay, so Y'A clef goes back to school. Next time we hang out, by the way, you go all day. No, I got you, baby. Why Clef goes back to school, 2019.

How do Y'Cleft put music out? Everything is curated through different playlists. So my playlist has always been about discovery. So what I did in Chorin the Carnival, I would start with volume one and I would travel the country and meet different college kids and

university kids that I feel that are the next that are not necessarily on a playlist, on your YouTube, on your creation list. And so when you pick up Wycleft goes back to school, 80% of the kids on the projects are different kids from universities throughout America. So for me, I might hear a girl and say, wow, she might be the the next Erica Baddoux, she's 21, and you'll discover her and why Clef goes back to school. I might be like, wow, she's the next Adele. So it's just a curation playlist, but based on the idea of producers and songwriters producing all of these acts. All right, politician. Tell me real quick about you as a politician, because I think, you know,

being somebody who's been working a lot in legislation stuff for songwriters in the last year I'm starting to understand a little bit about politics so go for it well I mean Peter Tosh said it's called polytrics you feel me so we never or polish shit we never we never just we just step up like you you step up this is not we don't this is like an obligation like so we have have a moral obligation to step up for public service. So at the end of the day, that's really like the bottom line to it. I felt like the government in my country was absent at the time when we needed them to be present. And to your point with legislation, I've been lobbying for legislation for my

country since I've been 21 years old. I've helped negotiate with gangs and all kind of things. So when I decided that I was going to run, I just felt at the time for a country to get out of debt, realistically, you can't be under the IMF or the World Bank. You know, you can't tell people like, here's microloan. So what I wanted to do is create social entrepreneurship, you know, agribanks and give people a chance. And we're definitely going to pick up. But once again, like on Dave Chappelle, when I said, if I was president, I get elected on Friday, assassinate on Saturday. We don't, it's not like we want these government positions,

but at the end of the day, we as humans and as people, we have a moral obligation. If we feel like the governments that are responsible for us are not doing the right things, we always have to step up to the forefront. For this next segment, I'm going to list five things you're just going to tell me what comes off the top of your head first. You can do it in whatever language you want. Start with your dad. Missionary. Let's go with your wife. Tough.

Let's go with Lauren Hill. Incredible. Clive Davis. Teacher. I've never done this before, but why Clough? Weird. Well, you know, thank you for doing this. Thank you for having.

We've been pretty fortunate. we get to talk to a lot of people but I know that for me I aspire to do what I'm passionate about and sometimes those things are not what's in line with the stereotype for my profession and so to see people

who lead the way in owning their path and I know we all get FOMO on occasion we all have our own issues dealing with in a way the weirder the path you take the more you have to have conviction and remind yourself that passion is why you're doing it

and along with that comes financial success and credibility and you know you are continuing to be a philosopher and like we were saying in the greenish room the greenish room you know it's like

The 420 room. Yeah. But the idea is, you know, we're all just trying to, you know, the more successful you become, the more you have some responsibility in sort of continuing to be yourself so the next generation can learn from you how to run a career and how to be a musician, how to be a human, and how to do that well. So I'm proud of you. Proud of you too, fam.

I appreciate you. So thank you. Yeah, man. Shout out to you. the beard god. Exactly. Thank you so much. We're connected, baby. We've got two more minutes.

If you guys have questions, yeah, freestyle for two minutes. Here you go. So let's play a game. 21, right? So I'm going to show you how you do double metaphors in one word. You ready? Do it.

Now I'm the one. I know what you're thinking. Me too. But in this game of numbers, they could only be a few. I'm the Trinity. Guess the riddle kid. One man on two sticks. What's that? The crucifix.

At least this is what they taught me in Sunday school. Forgive my foes. Fives. Pointed at Pinocchio's nose. Skip the sixth. Go to seven. That's the number of completion. Adam ate the apple so they cast them from the Garden of Eden.

Jealousy got him waving his nine. Kane kills Abel. He a ten man. His heart pumped soil. Two ones ain't enough to make it rain. Microphone check. one, two, that's 12. Hip hop lives in my vein. I'm from the era, dudes scrap with their hands, play Friday the 13th, get cobra clutch or body slams. But my little cousins, they gang related.

They don't use their hands no more. It's M14s, M15s, guns and roses pointed at your sweet 16. And I was born on October 17. That's the day they killed my leader, Jean-Jacques de Saline. And my mama told me, there's monsters under my beard. They 18s. So think Malcolm X, the 19th hour by any means. 2020 Vision, they say the good die young. I had to trick death.

That's how I made it past 21. Yeah. Thanks for listening to this episode of And The Writer Is. If you want to hear music from this songwriter I just interviewed, be sure to check out our Spotify playlist or visit our website at and thewriter is.com. If you like what we're doing, please subscribe to us. You can also like us on Facebook and Twitter. And The Writer Is is produced by Joe London, edited by Miles Bergsma, and published by Big Deal Music.

A special thanks to David Silverstein from Mega House Music. and Michael White. Until next time, this is Ross Goan.