And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan - Ep. 7: LunchMoney Lewis

Episode Date: March 13, 2017

This Miami native is not only known throughout the industry for his infectious hits, but also for his contagious positive spirit. Since relocating to LA, he has become a trusted collaborator and featuring guest artist. As co-writer of massive songs such as Fifth Harmony's 'Bo$$' and Jessie J's 'Burnin' Up', and the namesake of his artist project with addictive jams like 'Bills' and 'Whip It!', this songwriter is sought out by many for his strength, spirit, and skills both on and off the field....And the writer is...LunchMoney Lewis!  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey guys, this is, and the writer is. And I'm your host, Ross Golan. I've written with hundreds of writers and artists over the years, and my favorite part of each session is the first hour when we catch up about life and the industry, politics, composition, whatever. If you ask me, songwriters are some of the most worldly and intelligent people I've ever come across. So this is a journey of learning why people write songs, how people write songs. And most importantly, who the people are who write songs.

write the songs. Now I'm co-producing this with my friend Joe London, who is nominated for a Grammy earlier this year for Best Country Song. He makes us sound like angels. If you want to listen to the songs we discuss in this podcast, go to Spotify and look up our playlist and The Writer Is or go to our website www.com. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate us on whatever your preferred podcast listening site is, whether it's iTunes or or it's one of the others. We appreciate that effort and thank you. Today's podcast is with my friend Lunch Money Lewis.

Lunch is a beast. If you don't know lunch, you need to go right now and look up lunch on YouTube. Probably the first thing you're going to see is the song Bills. You'll see that video. If you watch that, my guess is you don't need any more explanation to how much of a badass lunch money is. He's such a badass that Al Roker talks about him

on the Today Show on a regular basis. He's also been featured on every artist from Thomas Wrett to Nikki Minaj, which says how diverse a writer this guy is and how fun he is to have in the studio. A couple notes for you so you can follow along. One is we talk a lot about J-Cash. We talk about J-Cash so much that we even interviewed him in the second episode. So you should go back and check that out. But Lunch's signed to J-Cash.

He also discusses Salam Remy. Salam is the guy who helped break people like Amy Winehouse. He produced Nas, Fujis, Fergie, Estelle, Miguel. You know, he's kind of like one of those urban super producers. So without going further into notes, I want to jump straight to the interview. Because lunch is that entertaining. He comes from an interesting family, comes from an interesting place. He's worked with so many different interesting artists that let's just just.

hear what he has to say. So, without further ado, here is this week's episode of And the Writer Is. Welcome to End the Writer is. I am your host, Ross Golan. Today's writer has been featured on records by Nikki Minaj, Thomas Wrett, Pitbull, and Megan Traynor. If that's not proof, he's one of the most diverse writers in the game. His first single as an artist went number one in Australia and top 10 and a half a dozen

countries including the UK and just went gold in the United States of America. He's written songs with the Titans of the Music Industry because his flow and lyrics are consistently authentic and progressive. And the writer is, a friend of this guy I know, who's not the writer on this episode, but knows the guy who's friends with the writer on this episode. Who knows the guy? Lunch Money Lewis. What's up, Ross?

What an intro. I would try to explain the intro. but obviously kind of like, I don't know, because you obviously grew up in an Italian family. In the Bronx. In the Bronx. I really didn't, but it's just fun to act like it. It definitely is.

Does that come from growing up in Miami and being around a bunch of real gangsters who are selling lots of drugs? I think so. Half of that, and then half of, like, me being young and getting high watching Casino and good fellas and every Italian movie ever made. They're the best.

They're the best. Welcome. Thank you. Welcome. This is nice. Yeah, it's all right. So when you grew up in Miami, you grew up in a family that has a lot of music. So you grew up in Miami.

You're born in late 80s. And it's like, is that sort of right in the prime of when everything was going on in your dad's been inner circle, right? Yeah, that was kind of, I would say I was born in 88. So he was in Miami around 88, 89. He had just kind of moved there. My parents just had me. And I think it was off the cusp of them leaving Jamaica, losing their lead singer, and kind of coming to America with a record deal, like reshaping the band and the sound.

And they had a new singer. And so, like, by the time I was born, it hit the early 90s. And that's when, like, the new inner circle, like, I think the world knows, like, kind of kicked in. So I was, like, the golden baby who, made it and I blessed the luck of the band I think yeah dude that's crazy did you tour with them when I was when I was like I think I did two tours when I was like five and six it was like summertime out of school and they would go on this like US run and I'll just go out go out with them I was like probably like 95

or something I don't remember but yeah I just like go in like second grade yeah I'm in like third grade in front of a good like 5,000 people probably sitting behind a drummer every night like loud like you know breaking all the can I curse but breaking shit down like all the drums everything down like this isn't like this isn't CNN I'm sorry no I just you know I felt the pressure yeah but now by like breaking now just watching the like evolution of a band like it was

inspiring yeah did it teach you how to write differently or like was it teaching you how the business works I mean when you're like seven years old and you're watching a band kind of blow up yeah like did you have any idea that oh yeah My dad writes songs. I had no idea at all. Like, I just knew he was cool.

And I know it was like, I love this. Like, I didn't know about money or, like, how anything works. I just saw it. And I was like, this is what I want to do for the, like, rest of my life. Like, however I figured out. So I think that was, like, key to me, like, this sparking, like, an initial, like, love for music. Like, it's great. Yeah, I think when you sort of see how, like, once you're taught something's attainable,

you can reach for it. Oh, all day. You know, like, so I think one of the problems with, you know, not a good education for a lot of people, is that you don't realize that you can attain whatever you want. But I'm sure it helps when, you know, growing up an environment, obviously, like, you know, sweat and bad boys are just such massive songs. Yeah.

You'd hear them everywhere. So were you aware that, like, that's your dad? As I got older, I kind of kicked in. Like, you know, okay, your dad wrote these two songs in a part of this big, this band, a reggae band from Jamaica. But as like growing up, I think I was so this hypnotized by like the music, like the making of it and watching them perform. I never really like, it didn't hit me later until this is important

and you have to do something important now. Oh, wow, yeah. Yeah, like this was like I was like just wrapped up and I want to play drums and I want to just make this thing they're making every day. Did that put pressure on you? I think when I got to, there was an age where it kind of was like, man, you better do something with your life, buddy. Yeah.

You know. What age was at? That was probably like, probably like high school, you know, because I really got into the music. Like, okay, this is like, you know, when you're getting to the age of like career point, like, what are you going to do with your life? But it just like, it kind of always progressed with me. I think I was naturally like hungry for it. You know, they kind of were in their own world. I was just like always doing me and learning and learning.

So I just was like a, once I found out, I just like a rocket. I was like, all right, this is what I'm doing. Were you, when you were in high school, you were like, oh, I'm going to do reggae? Like my parents were you like, I'm going to do anything but that because I need to be different. Yeah, I kind of, I always, I think reggae, like I always say, reggae is like a good, I'm glad it was the first music I heard because it's so worldly. It's so, like, positive. And then it's so, like, deep, rooted in, like, culture. So I'm like, and it's, like, rooted in hip hop.

It's in rock. It's and everything. So I'm glad, like, it was my first music because I, like, listen to everything because of it. Right. But then moving from it, I was like, I felt in love with hip hop. I was like, I love rhymes. I love writing. I love hip hop, you know, I love R&B.

I love all these things. Who introduced you to that? Was that just by being your age? I had a big brother. I had cousins and they were like into East Coast hip hop and like JZ and Nas and big big pun. And then I grew up in Miami where there was like this diversity of like Cuban music. And then, you know, like trick daddy and like, you know, it was like this big melting pot of like music.

So I think that kind of, I think hip hop more took me in high school. And then I just like kept going from it. It was two good genres because they're like subjohn. Like once you listen to rap, you hear. a rock sample and then you listen to the rock band and then reggae's like it was two good genres to like me to start from because it like took me everywhere else from there

so it's like kind of cool. When did you realize you could actually write? I think when I was I think pretty early like because I was always like I was so involved in the creating part of it like I love making it like you know being in the still like I am and like we are now all of us like I love the writing

process and the recording process or like writing a rap and writing a hook and trying to make it catchy, not even knowing what catchy was, but you know, it's funny, like, listening to my old stuff now, I'm like, man, I was trying to write, like, a good song when I was, like, 17, but I didn't know all the parts to make

it, like, what, I think I could make it now, but... Do you ever think about... I guess every once in a while, like, when I'm on an airplane, I'll go back and listen to some old school songs, just seeing if maybe there was like, man, that's a sick pre-court. So, I should go ahead and steal that, you know? I still... Sometimes I listen to, like,

I listen to old raps now, and I'm like, what the hell was I thinking? Like, I was doing anything of what I was talking about like it just was like you know but then I hear just certain songs where I use melody really early and I was like trying to sing

and everything I was like oh I was on to something like I'm just like you know Is that so I mean you started as a rapper right? Yeah So when did you because I think of you as a singer Yeah you know when you're starting to sing

does the people who liked you for being a rapper where they're like well that's weird that you're starting to sing or people like oh, may you can sing from the gecko. I think it was funny. It's kind of expected that I should sing. Yeah.

Because, well, I mean, I also started like doing musical theater and it was like a, you know, a dorky Jewish kid from the suburbs, you know? Yeah, yeah. I think the fact that I could do any sort of rhyming or that I work with rappers on any sort of level is always shocking to someone in the exact, maybe the exact opposite way. Which is cool. You know, like, do people look at you and do they think like, wow, this crazy? crazy you can sing because you're really a rapper.

Yeah, because in the beginning, the song that actually, like, I was in a local scene at home, you know, like a local rapper and we all put out songs. And one of the songs that did well for me, I actually was singing the hook. It was a song called Get Grown that, like, all the DJ started playing and, like, the clubs and the skating rings. And, you know, I was like, maybe in high school, like, in my early 20s. Like, you know, I was signed. I mean, there's like another gap of my life there.

I was, like, signed in a group when I was 18. Yeah, explain that. Like, it's pretty rare that someone has a record deal essentially straight out of, yeah, out of high school. And then also to have a record deal out of Miami is, you know, in the rap community is really unusual. Because it's not Atlanta. It's not New York. It's not L.A.

Yeah. How does a band from, I mean, what was the band called again? Bottom of the map. Bottom of the map. What a name, right? Yeah. No, it was awesome. We're a bottom, because we're from Miami.

We're like, we're the bottom, you know, you get it. Sure, yeah. But, yeah, we were just, it was my best friend, and he did music with me. We met in seventh grade, and we're still friends to this day, like a musical best friend you have who still does beats and stuff, and we still, you know, do music. And there was three other dudes. What's his name? three other members. It was a producer at the time who was fairly big in Miami

and with him and Jim Johnson and Big D and it's like the classic like producers getting big. I want a band and then we signed to them. And so that part of my life was like 18 to... Were you guys all friends in high school? Just me and Zirk. The other two members we weren't friends in high school. We weren't

we just met to the group. So it was like when we got the group together I met both of them. Did someone put the group together then? Well it was the group was originally my boy Zerk, another kid and the kid in the home Bone who was in the group and I

was a rapper locally and the producer was like yo like how now can you come in and help them write hooks and write songs so I came in like oh I'm gonna write some hooks for this group my boy's in the group fuck it you know and then I came in I rapped on a song and then he was like you need to be in the group like so I actually joined the group then

the singer left and we got another singer a girl came in to sing on a hook one day and then they were like, oh, you guys are the classic, you know, like, you guys are the group. Yeah, they're a black happy. They were like black hippies. You know, you get a car. You get a car.

So it's like everyone like got in the group. And then, um, that was fun. That was like, yeah, you get a voice. You know, it was like that kind of thing. Did you know? Did you know, uh, going into, when you were saying like, I go and I'm going in to write a hook, are you thinking it all like, because you grew up around it? Are you thinking like, well, now I'm going to try it every time I'm trying to write a hit?

Or are you like, yeah, I'm just a kid going in a studio here at my, friends and I'm going to just start singing whatever comes out the top of my head. That was basically what it was. It was like, I didn't even know what it hit. You know, I was like, I'm just going to go in here and, like, have fun and write a song with my homies and then to raping on the song and standing. So there's five of you and bottom of the map. Five of us.

And you guys get a deal with Motown. Motown, Universal. How did they hear you? We had, the Big Dee at the time, had a manager, Derek Jackson, who some people know he managed Scott Storch. She was like, you know, he is a prominent manager at the time. So when, you know, he brought his group to his big, it was classic. Yeah.

Big producer brought his group to his new manager. And they were like, oh, we need to sign them. And then we flew to New York for one day, did it perform for Sylvia. And he signed us in like a week. Yeah. So it's the fastest thing. And this is like probably like 2008 or 2007, 2010. I left high school, 06 and I was signed in 07.

Did you graduate? No. Do you ever? I left school at, yeah, it's my senior year. It's really funny how little... I'm not proud of that either. Really? Do you care? I think it was smart.

Like now, you know, when you get older, you're like, man, I should have just finished. I was like 10 credits. But I think I was so affixed, like with music. You know, I shot out my counselor, Miss Clark. She had a meeting with my mom that day and was like, look, he needs to go do whatever he wants to do because he's not here. Yeah. So I listened.

I actually took that tip and my mom listened. Then we was like, all right, let him go run free. So I ran free for a year. and I had a deal in a year. I mean, you're articulate, you've traveled the world. It's not like, I think in education, a formal education versus the kind of education you had. Yeah.

I think almost anybody would pick your education and would feel like that's a worthy way of learning. Like I haven't, most people don't travel around the world performing their songs in front of a lot of people or see that. And then like you were saying, the reason why I was saying in education matters to entertainability is because most people don't have, you know,

that world doesn't open up by their parents. Yeah, yeah. Like your parents kind of opened up a world where you're like, well, what's a point of studying? Yeah. You know, chemistry, if that's not what you're doing. Like, you got a taste of that high. Like, you were like, why am I even smoking anything else? Like, I need to concentrate on this drug right here.

I need to work on this and like finish it. And it wasn't, you know, I credit my family for, you know, teaching me hard work in it. It wasn't like, you know, I was like, it was like, you want to do this, learn. Like, learn every aspect of it. If you went at it, you went. If you don't, you need to fit. You know, so I think I got obsessed with it. And it kind of took my, just my, I was like, yeah, it was like I ran with it completely.

So you're in New York. You signed to Motown. Yeah. And at that point, how soon after that did you guys record an album or? Yeah, we recorded an album, like we went in the studio. In Miami or you're recording in New York? In Miami. We went into the studio, and I remember working.

They brought like static, which rest in peace, static major, you know, wrote all the Leia, Genuine stuff, like that whole camp. You know, so I got to see him work a lot, and that inspired me as a song. I was like, man, people are writing songs for people. And, you know, he wrote most of the hooks on the album. We wrote verses, but I was always like, I'm going to stay here and watch him right. Because I was like, man, this is a job. Like he's in here, like, cutting records and knocking stuff out.

I had no idea, you know, about money and nothing. And so I was just like, yo, this is dope. Who's teaching you about the, you know, who teaches you about the money part? I think later when I started to, like, I started figuring out on my own, and that's when I started getting information from other people with my dad and other people would, you know, slowly. Because if you meet my dad, he's a funny guy, like, my dad's like a very old school. If anybody has like an old school parent, like old school, Jamaican, old school, it's that old school, anything. He's like, he'll never give you all the information, but as soon as you get in the situation,

he's like, all right, look here. This is what you need to figure out, you know. It's what you know, and it's Patua and Jamaica land, like, yo, you have to do this and da-da-da-da. So I'd always take bits and information, you know, and, like, when I get in the situation and, like, move from there. But, like, just, yeah, seeing him work

and we worked on the album for a year. And then... Did they release it? Never. We got... We end up doing the classic, you know, working on the album, and then it went wrong, and we spit up and, and, yeah, got dropped in.

stuff. When you got dropped, what was the thought process? Like, how do you go from there to, like, you know, I'm going to move to L.A. and do a deal with. I mean, how do you then get a hold of, I guess J. Cash was probably through Miami, right? Yeah, but I didn't know Cash at that point. So how do you, how do you get, how do you get from, like, okay, my band just gets dropped? Yeah.

Anybody you get to record deal, especially at that age, is like, I am Jay Z. Oh, I'm about to be... I'm about to... I'm about to be the biggest rapper in the world. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? So how do you go from, like, that to L.A.? You get dropped and, well, it's emotionally.

How do you move? I was like, you know, we had been... There was so much whirlwinds in the group, you know, from there. And I have no hard feelings about any of it either because it was so awesome at young age. And I learned I got to tour, you know, with friends and all that stuff. But it was like a whirlwind of emotion. I was like kind of... At the time, I knew we could...

couldn't do. I was trying to do other music because I knew the group was over at a certain point. So I was like, oh, we can't release. So you started writing before the group was done. Yeah, I kind of caught the wave of like us being like, okay, this is like not going to go. So I need to like stay. Did the label try to keep you guys together or was the label like, no, this is

not going to work? Yeah, they held this. We were together for a year, you know. Shot to Sylvia. She never dropped this immediately. I think she had us hang around for a while. But then I think, you know, we just got a little older. We were together from where 18 were like, all right, you know. And I think we all started just kind of in our own worlds.

Well, and you were saying before, and, you know, not to go too far into it, but just that you guys had, like, four members of the band, two managed by one guy, two managed by another guy. The group personality.

It's just like, anybody's been, you know, you've been in a band or groups or anything. It's just like, you know, your best friends in the group, but then there's two other people you don't know.

You got to get to know them. You're growing up together. You get some money. It's like, you know, it's like a whirlwind of other. Being in a band's a fucking worse, man. They're terrible people.

Yeah, they're terrible. You know, Just kidding. I love all you guys, except for the ones they don't. Yeah, exactly. Who aren't listening to this because they don't like me either. The ones I know you don't like me, though, I love everybody else. Yeah.

But it was a whirlwind of emotion. But I was kind of halfway relieved and halfway, like, relieved, like, okay, time to do something new, which I love new vibes. I love new energy. Like, I'm going to do something new now. I'm going to figure it out. And then the other half of me was like, man, was that our shot? Like, was that my shot, you know? So it was like, I think both emotions were.

But I've always been the type that, like, I've been very, like, we got to go. Let's like, I got to go. I got to make music. Got to go anywhere and make music. Any studio. A friend had a studio at his house. I was there. Like, I was just like, we've got to go, you know, like that type of.

So I was, I picked up from there and kept putting out stuff. When did you know you could do it on your own without a band? I knew it. I think I think I never really knew. I think I just always was, it's funny when you do music. You know, you never really know anything. It's just you got to love it You know, it's like

I loved it I didn't know what I was going to do Or how I was going to do anything If I was going to do anything I was just like I'm going to rap I'm going to write My friend does beat We're just going to like make stuff

And then like you know After the years I put makesapes out My city and I had a buzz As a local rapper And then you know I met the wonderful J Cash in between all of that Because he was coming up

So he heard your Did he hear your music Or was it like a friend of a friend? The real story is We're not going to go to deep into the story, but it was interesting. Go deep into the story. Okay, well, I...

Go as deep as you can. Okay, I'll go... Well, we had like a weed connection that we both smoked weed from the same guy. And, you know, I had weed and he had weed and the weed, my boy who sold weed was like, man, you should meet my... The J-Cash, you should meet lunch.

You guys do music. You both are dope. You guys should link up. He was doing Kevin Rudolph stuff at the time, putting out his stuff, and I was, like, doing my thing locally. And then, you know, we met. And when me and him met, we kind of stopped talking to everybody else and just were like, okay, we should make music together.

And that kind of like rolled into everything. And I saw, Cash was honestly an inspiration of mine too because I saw Cash, you know, he wrote records on Kevin. It was like, you know, he was like Landis. I wasn't really thinking at that time either about songwriting. Like I remember certain people wanted my songs then and I'll be like, I'm not giving my songs away. Like I love my songs.

Like I was still in this kind of artist mode and he was kind of in the same but still writing. So it was kind of like inspiration. I was like, man, he's like writing and giving songs away and stuff. So I think that like kind of like when I got into the mode of like songwriter was different from artists. I put artists away for a while after a certain time. I was like, I'm not going to be an artist again. I'm just writing.

He came out to L.A. And he was like, man, he came out to L.A. And he was like, man, you need to get out here. Like leave Miami. There's nothing there. I'll be like, sure. Like, I love you here. It's home.

You get comfortable. And then I just took the wrist. I was like, I don't leave me. When did you come out here? I came out three years ago, three and a half. So we kind of met, like, right when you moved out. Yeah, I met Ross. I met Joe.

Yeah, I met, you know, everybody, Ricky, everybody. Yeah, about three years ago I've been here. And so how did they come to like, okay, so now you come out here to pursue songwriting, and the first thing you do is then do an artist deal. Yeah, I did. The funny thing, I had another friend, Ben Billions, who's doing really well as a producer now, who's like, my boy, we came up together. We're working.

He's in Miami also? He's from Delaware, but living. in Miami, worked with Cala for years, and then we started kind of like a production thing. Prior to that, I did, like, you know, some Meek Mill stuff, like, real rap stuff. I wasn't even, like, really into pop. Were you getting cuts with Meek and with those guys? Yeah, I was getting, like, minor cut. Like, I did some Ace Hood stuff.

I was, like, doing rap stuff hooks. You know, rappers knew I had hooks, and they were like, you know, I want you come through and work on this. And, you know, and I'll do stuff like that. And I think that's what when Cash was like, come out to L.A. And I came here. When I came first, everyone was like, yo, I do rap hooks and, like, you should do that. And, like, you know, when I met Luke, he was like, yeah, you can need to do urban stuff. And, like, you know, so that was like, but I don't think he knew that I, I mean,

I shocked everyone and I did everything else, like, besides that now, which is, like, the funniest thing ever. Well, that's the thing, like, the first thing I started saying is, you know, when you bring up Thomas Ratt and Megan Traynor and Fifth Harmony and One Direction. Like, I don't know, like, how much any of those have to do with the rap hooks, but except for that they all kind of want to secretly be rappers. All at the end of them. All rap melodies are old songs. Does it work the other way where because you've worked with those artists, like, are there

rappers who are like, dude, I'm a huge Thomas Rat fan? You'd be surprised. I'm sure. I'm, like, half serious. I imagine that there's some that are like, you know, that are aware of all of it. I think, like, I translate good. I think I've always listened to a lot of music. So I never felt like I couldn't do anything.

Like, I can work with Goddy tomorrow and do the hardest hook you've ever heard. And then tomorrow, I'll, like, you know, right, well, you guys on, like, you know, we'll do Selena or whatever. Like, I'm not, I've never, I think that's why I think my roots of reggae and hip hop made me fearless. Like, I listen to everything. So if I listen to it, I want to feel like I could do it. You know, so I, like, obtain the information and I, like, I pick up. And I've always been kind of a lot. So I think, like, it made me fearless.

Like, I love pop music. Like, I think all of us secretly do. Even rappers, like, they know every song from the night. And, you know, it's like guilty pleasure. So I think, like, you know, when I got the opportunity to, like, showcase it, I was like, okay, I'm going to do, you know, something else. So how did, how did you know that, you know, music? When do you know that it's for you? I mean, if you're going to have, tell me the story of bills.

Like, how do you end up being like, this one's for me? I'm not letting anyone else cut that. Well, bills. Or is that way later in the process? I mean, how did that work? That was a, that was another, like, like, when I first came, I was. wasn't trying to be artist at all. I was like, I'm going to just come here, write songs, be creative. You know, I've met a great community of people that are like friends. And I'm like,

yo, I'm just write songs and have fun. And I wasn't like at all, like, oh, I'm a shop a demo or I got like songs on the side. It was really, you know, it was God's work. Like, I met Ricky the first time we did a fifth harmony single, which with Joe was on. The first song I ever met Ricky. That was the first song we ever did. So it was like, you know, I met, you know, me, Cash, Taylor, Park. I was the first time I ever met Ricky. So like after that we did the second time we worked we did you know burning up for Jesse Jay and then the same night we did bills So it was kind of like an energy you know it was like kind of like three single or three like records in In two days and two days and then when we did bills it was like I think it was like I was like man this is dope you know but I think more so you know if anybody knows cash he's like this for you like we can't even like he's like no bro trust me like you know and I was like

Are you sure? Like, I wouldn't want to be an artist. Like, I was thinking, like, I wasn't really on it. But I think just the energy of me and Ricky and Cash and us and our little crew would, like, became, felt good. And it felt like it was. So it made my energy be like, okay, this is fun again. Like, I'm going to try it again and, like, do something. At what point were you, like, you know, where you couldn't sleep at night?

Because you're sitting there being like, oh, my God, I'm actually going to do this again. You know, like, was it sort of like instantaneous or, you know, They're like, no, you got to keep this record. Dude, you got to keep this record. This record's all yours. And then that night you're sitting there in bed being like, um, fuck, man,

if we release this, this song's really good, like my life is going to change. Like, were you aware already at that point that you're going to end up being, you know? I was, I was really like just,

an artist again? I was like, kind of like, man, okay. Like, I never, like,

after that it was kind of numb. Like, you know, I was like, okay, this is going to be, and then, you know,

people start calling and labels and And then my man was like, yo, people are calling me. And like, and it was, and it was- Were you on Kim Masebi already at that point? Not as an artist. I was signed to, you know, prescription songs as a writer. So, like, at that time, it was, I wasn't really thinking about being an artist. So it was like, but I think what made me really, you know, I credited to like Cash

and Ricky and us, our little crew and, you know, Joe coming in and working on stuff. So I like to point to Joey is and have a mic, but I like to shout him out because he's easier. But like when I met, you know, I felt like I had friends and we started this. thing and that's what was important to me like man we got to finish these songs and this stuff's dope and you know and like i had cool people come in and peter um spenson and everyone who so i was like okay this is dope let's you know let's try something and you know and you know i was like okay i went for you know i was prepared i was kind of more i think everything leading me up to this point in my life from that time like made me prepared you know preparation meets opportunity

i was prepared to like more so handle it this time than i was when i was 18 was it was what you expected? I don't know, the success of it. I mean, you go, you know, it's one of those things where there aren't a lot of artists that I knew you from us writing together, but it's pretty rare that a new, in quotes, new artists, because to you, you weren't new. But to everyone else, it's, you know, a lot of new artists will get a deal and people be like, hey, check this out.

And sometimes you check it out. And when you do check it out, most of the time you're like, yeah, this is good, but this is a long shot. I'm not really interested in like, I'd rather go aim for Maroon 5 or whatever. Exactly. And then, you know, in our community, everyone was like, you've got to check this out.

And then since we kind of all work as friends, you know, when enough of your friends like check this out and you check it out, you're like, fuck, I want on this so bad. You know, it's like how, like stuff like that was inspiring me too because, you know, I, you know, people like you and like, like, Spence in a Martin, like people that

I really look up to like a song, these are professional songmakers. And it inspired me like, you know, to like, okay, I'm going to go for this. Like, you know, and I, and I, and it was fun and it felt natural when I was doing it.

The first time, you know, it's hard being an artist sometimes, so you always get to work with people you like, you know. And it's, you know, it's how the business works sometimes. But this time I was like, I'm with my friend, like Cash is like my brother. You know, I'm with Ricky, who's now like, basically my family and somebody I really liked

when I first met. And once again, he brought Joe and everyone and all the people. We all went in this house and made. So it felt like we were a band or something, but we all were cool. So I was like, oh, this is fun. It's a whole different thing to being in a band where you're like, where you have drama because everyone needs the spotlight versus something like this where everyone's trying to make the spot like more on you. Yeah.

And we were trying to make cool stuff. Like, I feel like I, like what I did, Bill's and like the stuff like Mama and those. I kind of like found myself. Like when I used to talk about music before, that's why I always like telling like artists, new artists, because I'm still new, but I've been in the game for a while, so I try to like, you know, friends that are mine. I'm like, yo, find your voice.

Find who you are. Like, fine. Like, I know, I still have ways to go, but I feel like who I am, I know who I am and what I want to say. And so, like, when I did bills and we did mama and I did love me back, I was like, man, I could play this stuff for my mom. Like, I was so happy to make music like that. And I found my voice.

It was like, I have no problem every day now. like working on myself. Were your parents just incredibly proud when they... Yeah, my mom was extreme. She was, you know, I think you're always happy

to see you do something with yourself. You know, I think they know how bad I always wanted to do music and they were happy when I came out here and pursued as a writer

and I was just happy when I came out, I think she was happy in any sense, but just like, oh, okay, you know, and I was, you know, it went through so I was like, man, you know,

everyone, being an artist is hard. A lot of people try and they felt, you know, so I, even the little glimpse of it, I was like, Like, man, this is cool. And we've talked about how your mom was so encouraging with your dad over all those years. And it's like, I can imagine that you kind of got the same sort of encouragement for you too.

Oh, yeah. Just being like, go, go, go, go, go. Yeah, she always just, like, really believed in me. And, like, she's that type of supportive person. Like, you know, I think that's important that people like, you know. When did you know that you were kind of famous? I'm not famous at all. Well, I mean, in some sense, for sure.

I know. I mean, well, to some... Harry Styles is famous. Right, okay, yeah. I know what you mean, though. No, but I mean, like, you know, you go into... My guess is that there's not a street in Australia you can walk down. Yeah, it's a lot of...

Yeah, I think it's cool. Like, I think it's... I think, like, still people are finding out more about me and they know more about my music, which is, like, really awesome. Because, like, you know, the label's always going to hit you with the analytics of everything. And really, my analytics are way higher than, like, who I am. am as a human being, which I kind of love. Interesting. What do you mean that by that?

I just mean like I have, you know, there's like a lot of streams on bills and my songs and a lot of hits on you, but like I can, I go places and like, you know, people might know the music before they know who I am, which I kind of like sometimes. I kind of like that, you know, I want the music to be always the first before the crap, you know, which is like, you know. I mean, is that how you got introduced to all these different artists? want you to feature, not just, like, write with them. Yeah. Is it because they heard bills, or is it, like, you go and write with them,

they're like, your voice is dope? I mean, how does, how do you end up being so diverse? I think I'm, I think it's just, I'm lucky, man. But I think when I do do refs, though, honestly, and I think any songwriter I really wants, I try to murder the ref, like, for rappers, like, anybody, I'm going to, like, I'm going to lay it like, you should lay it. I'm going to do the timing, and I'm going to do everything, you know, not perfect, But I try to do that.

So I think sometimes it either lands me on the song. And then being that I have, like, I've done my artist stuff and they're aware of certain things, they're like, oh, okay. It's dope to have you on it, you know. But even with Nikki, like, training them girls, that was, like, completely natural. Like, she just showed me love and kept me on the song. And I think it was because of how I bopped on the reference. I don't know.

But it was like, luckily I get featured a song. You know, it's like, I think I, but I try to go in on them. Like, I do. I let my secret. I try to, like, I try to go in on the ref. We said, we were. talking about that where you were saying that your goal is

to be the best collaborator of all time. Yeah, man. That's dude, that's incredible. Like what an interesting way to put it. I'd like to think that that's my goal too, but it's not really the same thing. Like, you're literally being featured on these records.

I mean, is there, I can't imagine you're being featured on, you know, a Michael Bublay record right now, but maybe. I would love to. I like, I'll tell them that. Please tell him. Yeah. Tell him.

I love Michael. But, yeah, I don't, I'm not, I'm not trying to, I don't want to put myself in any box because I love music. Like, and I feel like I could find my way on anything. So it's like, I don't want to be like, you know, when, once again, Joe, when Joe hit me about the Thomas Rett song and that he, like, like, my son, I was like, you know, listen to his stuff before and getting on feel good was like, man, I'm a bop on this. Like, this is dope. Like, you know, like, when I didn't, when working with Megan, like, you know, we have a similar. vibe of like positive music and happy and and then I go on goddy stuff you know i don't like because i listen that everything so it's like and i feel like i could i want to tap into the

emotion of anything you know it's only a couple things to talk about love you know happiness anger and in the street you know me growing up in miami i have a background of like being around edgy stuff so it's like were you ever worried about you know i mean yo goddy's got uh you definitely some lyrics where i think where it's uh seems like he grew up in some pretty did you have some serious Were you ever afraid of Of your childhood at all Like I mean were you ever in that kind of like dangerous

I mean I'm not a street dude you know I didn't grow up like you know but I grew I have friends who are in the street you know Growing up in Miami it's a really fast city You know and it's a lot of stuff going on And you see things and you know being a creative It's like you write your environment you know I hung around a lot of different people

I've seen a lot of things from all I have so many different type of friends and like I think that my music is based on my life. Like, I have hippie friends. I have, like, really street friends. And then I have, like, you know, my nice friends. Like, I have so many different diverse people in my life. And I think that's where it kind of bleeds into the music.

Like, oh, I'm, you know, my friends love, you know, Michael Boubley. And they listen to Thomas Wrett. And they listen to, you know, like, you know, fits in the tantrums. And, like, you know, they listen to so many indie music. And I think that's why I could tap into it. Like, oh, I'm going to kill this. I love, you know, I love, you know, I love. MGMT and you know

It's like and it all kind of goes into the hip hop thing Like I said like reggae and rap and like you know Hip hop is like very like a genre where it's like kind of free Like we'll get on anything like you know And then you know kind of runs with my pop stuff It's like soul and like you know I don't I don't know I'm a mess How do you manage the different politics? How do you? Yeah exactly

How do you manage a different politics of it? Because the difference of writing for yourself versus writing for you know a Megan or writing for Yo Gotti are totally different because the way the management works and all that stuff, how do you navigate that stuff? You know, it's like funny I saw my manager the other day because I did a hook for Gotti

on this new mixtape coming out on the 23rd album called CM9 and it's kind of hard what I'm saying but I'm also, you know, working on a lot of movie stuff and a lot of sync stuff so it's like... What do you mean? Well, it's just like, you know, like with the peanut stuff and like, you know, a lot of animation stuff and they're like always trying to get me involved

because the meeting's like you were worried but I feel like this is my I feel like everyone loves music nowadays kids don't they don't block their playlists are so diverse like you listen to a Kai it's like a Yo Gotti song is next to a Megan Trainor song is next to a Thomas Red song

Just a dope song Is next to a Selena Gomez song Like is like everyone So I feel like if you box yourself in You're gonna you'll lose Like as an artist It's like so many dope things, like, to be a part of. But when you do, are you purposefully positive in your, you know?

Yeah, my music is my, like, sanity. Like, my music is, like, what I want to talk about. Like, it's my freedom. Like, I like to put positivity in the world, talk about love, talk about good stuff. Is that the Jamaica vibe? That's the, I think it dates back to the reggae. That's the probably the vibe. The, just the good, you know, I've, I always.

I always say now I could play my music with my mom and I'm being myself. Because I'm not a, you know, I am a happy guy. I'm like, I love music. I love chords. I love soul. I love, you know, that type of stuff. So it's kind of like I think goes into, my music is like for my health. Right.

Like for my way of, I get sleep. Like, I love, like, you know, I talk about what I want to talk about, which is like very nice and beautiful. I put a list of a few people where I'm curious, you know, just sort of like the first thing that comes to mind. All right. Ty Dalla sign. Legend.

Why? He's just a talented dude, man. I heard you talking about him the other day and I was like, man, I hope somebody talks about me behind my back. No, it ties my home. I just put a song out with him on Friday too. Yeah, congrats, man. Thank you.

Just a fun holiday release. But, yeah, he's just one of talented dudes I haven't met, man. His ability to sing and play. And I thought his voice is, he's just dope. I mean, he's on a fifth time. He's another one. He's on a Fifth Harmony song. And then if you listen to his music, it's like, you know.

Yeah, right. It's like, I think it's us. We're like these hybrid people who just like, whatever. We were saying this also where it seems like some people who do features, like they kind of jump the shark, so to speak. Like they end up doing a feature on a record like, fuck. Yeah. Now I'm not that. I'm not cool.

Yeah. But I don't know if that really ever happens, you know? I think, I think even if it's a shitty song, it tends to be like people like, oh, well, that's. Sure do it happen. I don't know if anyone's paying that much attention to anybody else. I think it's you as a person, too. Like, Kendrick's on the Taylor Swift song, and I still think he's dope. Am I cool?

It doesn't make the hip-hop fans, like, oh, my God, he's on the Taylor. You know, it's like he still put to pimper butterfly out and we're like, wow. You know, still talking about, like, all type of racially, everything, and he's on the tailors. It's just like who you are. I think that kind of, like, you know, plays it. How about Jay Cash? Awesome, man. My brother.

He's the homie. I mean, so much... Talented, psycho, great human. Yeah. Yeah. Al Roker. Legend. Dude, how did that happen?

So I watched a today show in the morning we always put it on while we're eating breakfast and stuff like that. And when Bill's was first out, it was like, did all he cared about. Yeah. He's the nicest dude. How did you meet that guy? Was it straight from Bill's? Straight from Bill? I mean, it was crazy to support that song, like, drew some.

many people in my but I was like you know he just really supported it on the today show and was like you gotta come up here and and then when we met it was like you know it was he was just he's Uncle Al he's a great he's like I'm walking around New York City with him and people like screaming out of cars and like he's famous

yeah yeah he's famous he's famous so why does a song be how is a song so big in Australia so big in the UK and it did well here and it's such a giant country so I think people realize like the levels of success here are skewed and different. But why did it connect so well in some countries like Australia and the UK?

I think, well, you know, I think for, you know, just being a side, I think those like Australia, UK, Germany, there's such left countries with music. Like, they accept, I feel like they take in music different from America, you know, America for some reason. Like it's like, feels was such a left song at the time. Like, I don't think nothing's sound with the, like, the ragtime piano, and it's like, this house. It was like, I think it was a lot for American radio.

I mean, there's a lot of variations of why, you know, a song doesn't always do its full potential here. But even I'm not mad at because it did make its mark here that made me. Yeah, I mean, obviously. This guy is, like, super dope, which I was happy. You know, I could have been either the Bills guy or I could have been, like, in America or the guy that's, like, got potential to do more. And I think, I'm glad it worked everywhere else, which, you know, helped me, like, like B, when I get here, I'll get the whole world.

So I'm like super happy about that. But I think I think like over there, people just love different stuff. They love like, they love like something. Like I listen to the radio there. I'm like, what's this? Like, you know, they love like it. It was so like new. I think it just like kind of smacked people, I think, a little bit.

Yeah. I mean, well, we all did. And that's why, you know, it's like it's why all those artists want you to feature on their records. Because they're like, man, this is cool. You know, regardless of them good or not. and it's good too. But the fact that people are like, this is cool.

Yeah. Which I loved. And when you did the, I mean, the music video really kind of shows your sense of humor. Like, did you direct it too? No, I gave the concept. Like, I like, you know,

collaborating. I like giving my idea and him shooting it back. So we kind of collaborate on it. Ricky had ideas too. And cash, we all kind of, I knew I wanted to play, like, different people and, like, show working class people and stuff.

So, yeah, it was like, kind of like, collaborative thing. You think you're going to continue doing the artist thing forever now that the doors open? Yeah, I think I want to do it as long as I, I think I'm not like crazy, like, I'm not like, because before the artist thing and you were like, I don't know, you know, I don't, I just want to do the writing thing. No, I want to take it to the moon now.

Like now I mean, I'm into it and I'm doing it. I want to eventually, you know, be the best that I can at it and also still write and be creative. Like, just be a great creative, collaborative arts. artist you know yeah it's awesome and i have friends like ross i've cast so many friends who we have this community of writing that like you know bring me in on a lot of cool stuff and i get to you know feature on stuff and so

yeah i'm blessed man i'm happy like i feel i feel good you're doing well thank you um well i appreciate that you came and did this podcast man this is crazy this is ross's amazing you know world i was going to say to sort of close i can't think

of another writer that's walked into the community where everyone wants to like be them not like we just work with but there's such a different thing you know we have writers that come in who everyone wants to work with because they're good and you may like them but it doesn't necessarily mean that like you you look up to them as as the whole package sometimes you're like this is it They're a good collaborator. They're really smarter. They're really, they can sing well or that. But, you know, it's like, I think everybody likes, sometimes you like being with them for a short amount of time.

It's like a real family. You're like, all right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, like, you couldn't be closer to them. But it's, you know, it's a different thing when there's like a, there always seems to be a battle for your time. Yeah, yeah. So many people want to have you in the room. It's like, most of people that we even have on this podcast are, are, you know,

older than you are. You're really young to have made such a big mark. I mean, I'm excited to see what happens for you over the next few years because the fact you've only been here for three years and you've already made that much of an impact. I mean,

I can promise you from having been out here for a little bit longer. It's going to be really fun. Yeah, thank you. But that's why I kind of think it's cool. Like, even when you shared your story of being here with me and a lot of things. Like, I think time is just, you're better. and you learn.

And, like, I learn so much every day. Like, I just don't, I learn from me. I learn from everyone I work with, like, Ricky. And I just, like, I love taking into the information and, like, getting better, you know. And, like, you know, not being, like, everything is, like, a fast learner. I'm like a slow learner too. I'm slowly adapt. Like, you get better with time, you know, like.

So it's like, you know, I think I'm just lucky. You know, only as good as the people you're around. So I'm around. You know, I can't give myself all the credit. You know, I'm lucky to be around, like, really dope. Yeah, but you've learned from being with, you know. Even Salama. Like, Salam named me lunch money, Salam Remi.

He named you lunch money? Yeah. Salam named me lunch money. Yeah. How did that happen? I was young. My brother was really cool with him. I was known for a long time.

Like, not to, like, my brother, they always knew me like, yo, your brother could rap. I'd come around my big brother. And they'd be like, yo, make your brother rap, man. Like, your brother's really nice. And my brother would be like, man, rap for him. So, like, a lot of people found out, like, from my brother, you know. And then Salam kind of met me. He's kind of a big dude for queens.

Is your brother proud? Yeah. Yeah, my brother's like super marketing guy, you know. My brother's on his Instagram. Like, my brother has a new show on Thursday. Come on out like, you know, that's my brother. Like, he's like, you know, we're a cool family. We're all like artistic in somewhere in the field of working.

You know, it's with, I know I said I was going to close, but we're not anymore. Because I was going to also say, you know, like the, I've noticed this with almost every writer who's ever been signed to Luke. Yeah. Or come through prescription. Their level of excellence is so much higher than most people. Learned a lot from that guy. Yeah, I mean, you know, when you're talking about Salam and Luke... Not learning a lot from that dude, too.

And, I mean... The similarities to them, too. I always say, too, like, Salam, if you know, his work from, like, Amy and Miguel and all the type of, you know... Like, he's really an artist producer. Not a lot of writers, he, like, works solely with artists who write their own stuff and, like, develops the sound thing. But the dudes that I came up around, like, their level of focus and intensity when it comes to, like, finishing stuff. I always say it's like it's crazy. Even my dad, like I look at all the dudes and I, the men in my life who like helped me, like the homies who help me for it.

And they're all like the same. Like they're super like intense finishers of finishing and everything has to be. So I think it kind of made me like either like have tough skin or like we have like being in and like, you know, it's like even my pops is still like that to this day. One of my favorite quotes is that genius has finished things. And I just think that that's like. To me, that's the answer. Just because so many people, there's so many people are so talented. And they think of themselves as genius or people recognize their potential.

But they just can't finish a record or an album or a story or whatever it is. They can't finish it. And if they finish it, then someone will recognize it for being genius. But until then, it's just a bunch of just potential. Yeah, potential. And it's like, you can only be cute with potential for so long. It's so good, like, but is it done? Right.

And I think just being around those dudes and, like, you know, I think it's, I think it all makes us all, like, kind of like that. I mean, you know, even being around like Ricky and Benny and, like, everybody, it's like this level of, like, we're going to go and, like, finish the song. Like, yeah. And I think from Salam and just Luke being, you know, a great finisher and, like, even my dad, like, you know, being his, how he does stuff. He's always been young and with me, like, hard on me. Like, yeah, for do this right, done, duh, like his level, you know. So I think it like made me like like you know kind of refined you like over a while like yeah Like that kind of thing well it seems to have worked my friend yeah kind of the right

A little bit oh no I'll see a couple years well congrats on heaven on earth and I'm excited for the next chapter for you thank you congrats on your podcast and joe yeah thanks joe thanks for listening to this episode of and the writer is if you want to hear music from songwriter I just interviewed, be sure to check out our Spotify playlist, or visit our website at and the writer is.com. If you like what we're doing, please subscribe to us on iTunes. You can also like us on Facebook and Twitter. And The Writer Is is produced by Joe London, edited by Miles Bergsma, and published by Big Deal Music. A special thanks to Jeff Sparger, David Silberstein from Mega House Music, and Michael White. Until next time, this is

glowing.