And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan - Ep. 79: Ian Kirkpatrick...Stays At Home!

Episode Date: April 9, 2020

In the first episode of our “And The Writer Stays at Home” series, we catch up with a Grammy-nominated writer and producer from Season 3 who has produced and written for artists such as Jason Derulo, Selena Gomez, Nick Jonas, Justin Bieber, Britney Spears, Pitbull, Chris Brown, Dua Lipa, and more. Most recently, this Los Angeles native co-wrote and produced Dua Lipa’s current Top 40 No.1 hit single, “Don’t Start Now,” which was just RIAA certified platinum. And he also co-wrote and produced Selena Gomez’s single “Look at Her Now” from her No. 1 album ‘Rare.’ And The Writer Is… Ian Kirkpatrick!Please join us to help keep the music community alive and thriving, giving it as much as it gives us. To donate or to apply for assistance visit the MusiCares COVID-19 Relief Fund site: https://www.grammy.com/musicares/get-help/musicares-coronavirus-relief-fund Watch this video interview on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/andthewriteris or on Instagram at @andthewriteris. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey guys, we are doing a few updates here with our alumni who we love dearly. And we hope all of you guys are staying healthy, safe, and staying at home during this quarantine. And hope you enjoy listening to a few of our previous guests telling you what's been going on in their life since they did their interview. Here are some updates for the quarantine versions. of Anne the Writer is. Okay. Do whatever you can do it. Whatever you like.

Here we are. All right, so here's Ian Kirkpatrick. What's up? Dressed for half summer and half Siberia. I'm prepared for anything. You are. So you're speaking through a little bit of reverb, and my assumption is because you're currently tracking your vocals,

on your first debut album. As a producer, I think it's important to kind of, you know, be inside your environment. I'm just kidding. I don't know. What is anyone doing right now?

Are you losing your mind? Yeah, a little bit, but not really. Just staying busy. I've been trying to stay motivated and like, you know, uh, yeah, just trying to keep sane. I've been exercising a lot. which is good. What about you?

Yeah, I guess I've been kind of exercising a lot. I live in an area where you can take a walk for a couple miles in the hills and not see another human. So, like, that's kind of nice. And, you know, yeah, I mean, I feel like health-wise, I'm actually doing all right, you know. Health-wise, so, yeah, knock on wood, feeling good health-wise. Yeah, what are you doing with your time right now? Well, besides wearing silly hats, I've been cleaning a lot and also working on catching up on demos and such

and trying to start to build instruments. And there used to be times when I would like spend half the time working on songs and stuff and the other half like going through patches and building like little production almost like making little splice packs for myself, you know, and like building tools to produce with. So I'm doing more of that now because I had less time doing that when I was just always working on songs. So a lot of that is keeping me same.

How do you build instruments? Like I took some light bulbs and I like, you know, click them together. Like these little tiny ones and it kind of sounds like claps. So I'll like record maybe 20 of those little hits. and then put them in contact and do this thing where it randomizes every time I hit a key. So it'll pick a different one of the samples. So it could just be like, you know, weird things like that. Like that would be building like the lightball clap or whatever and shit like that.

Or I got these microphones that. Why do you do that? I know that's a weird question. But like if you're, you know, I get, I get why unique sounds are cool. Yeah. But, you know, if you have a clap. you can use a clap, why make up your own samples? Because.

But it's smart. It makes sense. Yeah, it's fun to have stuff to blend in with samples you already have. But, you know, it goes back to all those, like, little, if I, you know, it's like, it's a very marginal difference between, like, a light bulb sounding clap and a real clap. but, you know, if you add 20, you know, 1% marginal differences, you end up with like a whole different, you know, 20% of your song is original weird samples and shit, and that all adds up and then just makes for a weird soundcape.

I don't know, it's to, you know, put a little curiosity into the sounds. I'm like, what is that? Is that a clap or is that what the fuck? I like that you still have echo on. I do? Yeah, it's fantastic, though. It sounds. You sure it's not just feedback?

No. My echo's off. Oh, well, it's coming out of a second. Oh, what's this? Oh, you know, it might be my headphone volume. Oh. That would be really intense. You'd be listening to it loud as.

Yeah. But anyway, wait, I might have helped. What, did that work? No, still sounds like. It sounds like it's either reverb or echo. Okay, reverb is muted. microphone muted. No, that's all.

Nothing on. All right. Well, you sound like you're, like you are slightly divine. Which is actually probably not an inaccurate way to describe you. I wasn't going to say anything, but, yeah. Right, exactly. So since we did your interview. What was that, like eight years ago?

It was 25 years ago. 25 years ago. Okay. You've had more hits. Are you sick of writing hits? You have the number one song in the country right now. Yeah, what a fucking time. Don't start now.

Yeah, what a time to have a number one. It's actually number one. I imagine nobody, like, it's not like, people have time to listen to music, and it's not like radio promo departments are going to start pouring in cash to try to take out your song. I think you're in a good spot.

Yeah, I was thinking about that. Do you think streaming? Streaming probably obviously goes up because of quarantine. And I mean, you've got to think, like, we're very fortunate just because of the profession we're in. I mean, granted, we can't do sessions very effectively. We can do FaceTime sessions, but latency is a bitch. And we're still trying to figure out how to solve that. But producers can still work on, you know, songs and my mom's texting me.

Sorry. I mean, I think it's funny that of all the humans I know who could always use the whole world to stop so they could finish songs, it'd probably be you. You're probably stoked. No, I was stoked for the first week, but then the gravity of the situation started weighing on me. And isolation's nice when it's balanced with not isolation. And when it's pure isolation, it gets a little, cuckoo. Like I thought I would, I thought I'd be built for this, you know, but it's proving a little bit difficult to stay motivated and, and do stuff, but I don't know. Why do you have to, why do we have to do stuff? What else is there to do? Well, you have to, I mean, look, existentially, you don't think about the fact that one day you're going to die every day,

right? You just do stuff. You pay your taxes, you know, this is just a microversion of that. You know, it's just like trying to avoid thinking about how dire the like, coroner. The, like, stuff is and you know Italy and what's happening in New York and like you know you try to like do what you can to kind of you know you're not just going to worry about it all day you've got to preserve self-preserve and that doesn't mean buying a lot of toilet paper

that just means like having you can you like I've been reading a book what are those I mean like I could it doesn't it's so weird it's like I can actually not work right now for a couple hours And it's not, you know, there's not, the whole world is moving at this pace or slower. So any kind of, it's not always about work right now.

I mean, there's maybe there's. Yeah, you're right. You're right. It's residual. Do something other than streaming TV and films, which is also fun. But, I mean, maybe there's an opportunity to do something other than work. Yeah. I mean, one thing I have noticed is, is more.

socializing actually. By FaceTime and you know catching up with people and the house party app is now making a comeback. Do you remember the house party app was crazy like five years ago? Yeah. And now everyone is back on it. And it's it's so

random and fun and there's games to play and I think like and also I think you I've slowly developed like my my rocks like people that I rely on in case I'm having kind of a mental breakdown, which has been

Ilse. Is it really? I'll see? Yeah, Ilsey and I talk a lot and keep each other sane. And then house party and everybody. Gabs, obviously, she's a great person to talk to. Are you enjoying

having this run of success? The Selena Gomez song running into Dua Lipa was sort of like or Selena Gomez songs well yeah just song well yeah

songs maybe it was one on the record but they did release look at her now like a party favor though it wasn't really an official single it wasn't

oh but but I mean it was it still did you know and back to you did pretty well I mean like you've had you've got a couple of Selena Gomez songs

going into this duo album it's nice because I because I you know you know as well as I do all we ever do is all we ever do is worry about like am I do was that my last good idea will I ever have another good idea you know it it helps kind of

shut that up a little bit but also it's not as intense as like the first you know few successful things but also I just it's very offset by this whole like thing that's happening and I and I it's just it's so hard to distract from it. that like I'm not even like really, I'm enjoying it, of course, and I'm thankful. And, you know, it's great. But it's so, like, I don't feel like it's appropriate to post about it, you know, given all that's happening and, you know. But I do think that things like what you're doing with these interviews and the writers,

that shit keeps is very important to do. Like, you know, this is at least something that can be preserved during the quarantine and all that stuff. But like celebrating stuff when, you know, hospitals needs masks. and shit. It feels weird to me, you know? It feels weird. But then again, there is something to say about distracting from, or, you know, trying to stay sane and distracting from that, which I think, you know, is what these kind of interviews are good for. Are you creative right now? Not really. I don't know. Are you? I don't know. I mean, I'm, I go in waves. I've been trying to work on, on, so I have a list of

things that I'm trying to fix for for some ideas that I have it and it's like musical wise and it's it's kind of a nice escape on one level and then another one is then you know you get some text message or you oh my God so many

the worst thing you can do right now look this is this is the most privileged thing that I'm going to say and I'm going to feel terrible about saying but the best thing that you can do for your psyche is to not check the news. Yeah, discovering that. If I check the news every other day, there's like a maximum level of depression you could get to.

So it's nice to kind of separate to try to just be in the moment and to not be so consumed with things that you can't help like Italy. You know, you can... I'm not saying that there aren't things you can do, but you are doing something by staying inside, you know what I mean? Yeah, this is one of the rare situations where you're actually doing something by doing nothing, which is very helpful. I mean, aside from like donating to, you know, local hospital,

what else is there to do except maybe donate your time to anyone who might be having mental breakdown or, you know, like you guys are doing what you can, you know? It's very inspiring. You're doing live Instagram stuff. You're doing a lot of Q&A stuff. So are you enjoying being a teacher? Yes, I really like that. But not, well, maybe a teacher, yeah.

But like I just like here's one way to do something, not like the way to do it. You know, how obviously you can't really like, it's such an abstract thing that we do that it's hard to be like, this is the right way and this is the wrong way. But yeah, it's so nice because I got a lot of great messages from people that were like, thank you so much for, you know, showing,

because I like to show the sessions of the songs and, you know, I think, like, when I was coming up, and I don't know if you experienced this when, you know, you were first starting, when, you know, back for, like, Mile High Club, back in those days, favorite concept ever, when there was, like, this weird gray area or blurry area between, like, people that were kind of doing it

and people that weren't yet doing it, Like, you don't know, like, what it, what the sessions look like for big hit songs or, you know, like, just how far you were from, I don't know. It's like, it's the one tangible thing that I could show up-and-coming producers, like, look, this is the same shit that you do. And this is like, you know, there's no tricks. It's just this. It's like, you know, it's very, like, cut and dry. And, like, here's an example of a song that's on the radio. And here's the actual session.

And you can see fit. Like, if I had had that when I was coming up, I remember there was some YouTube video. of this dude mixing a song by 50 cent. So he remixed the whole song on YouTube. And his screen was shared and everything. And it was incredible to watch him work because it was like, oh my God, so many answers. And I took so many screenshots.

And like, people do that for the Instagram Q&A's. And like, I'll show the settings on the plugins and all that stuff so that people can like take screenshots and see how it's- You're getting nervous that you're giving away trade secrets? Never. That is a weird. I don't understand that process.

Clearly we don't either. We're doing a whole... We've been doing a podcast for 100 episodes about... And the writer is, is literally the antithesis of that. Yeah, right. So I'm just wondering, like, do you worry, though, that you're giving away your trade secrets? Oh, my God.

No, I mean, do you... Like, I bet you'd feel as, like, ridiculous if I asked you, like, do you worry that you're giving away too many, too much insight with songwriting? I posted something where I was like, oh, not enough people saw this, and they should, where, you know, when there's a concept, or at least I feel like this is true in history

that when the economy is good, people can afraid to be sad. Or sorry, when the economy is good, people can't afford to be sad. Yes. So for the last five years, you get all these, you know, big pop artists talking about their feelings and everything is so emo and let me read my diary to you. But after 2008. Julia. Yeah, exactly.

You know, before, you know. Before the housing crisis, it was fucking dynamite and he was raiding and all that shit. I was saying that that's all the, you know, that's all the result of the economy crashing. I think that might be that might be but I think people when the economy's crap no because before 2008 you'd have all those like three three door garage bands you know like that's when you have like the early 2000s of limpis kit all the way through the Lincoln for all your whole neighborhood the Lincoln parks through uh uh you know um who the tank and all that stuff I feel like was the a lot of the bulk of the 2000s, too,

is a lot of people talking about... And the boy bands. Yeah, I mean, the boy band stuff really, like... I don't know. I just... Interesting theory, by the way. You should explore this. I'm just wondering if we're about to just get a whole bunch of major chords everywhere.

I mean, if, you know, trends continue for a minute in, like, the disco area, then maybe. yeah um that's really interesting i don't know if anyone actually you know cuts the songs that we have that are disco style yeah by the way you know we had some fuck or sorry shit ah damn it's keep cussing uh uh you know we have a couple with esther that are so incredible that we need to i don't know i don't know why it's all it's always a thing it's always a thing where i get this this uh that's my favorite song that i've ever heard and then nothing happens happens to it. Do you find that happens with like a lot of songs that you pitch where it's like

this is um you know both of our esther songs the ones that we wrote with esther got we're on hold for riana Sean paula one's point I think no someone else doing it's we're doing some with it for a second but then I don't hear anything for like like a month after it but that's like normal for you know that's how the business goes I was going to say you know something like new rules comes, you know, where somebody, you know, you're saying where I think it was going to be little mix, but they passed on it. And then

that ends up people passed on it, yeah. They never got to hear the song, the girls. But the idea of that's, you know, it's amazing what it takes sometimes for the songs that are the biggest songs to get cut.

Then some of the, you know, then also sometimes a path of there's these paths of least resistance that happen where it's I think that's why working with artists is really helpful because they're able to say they like the song from the outset. Are you finding that pitching songs is really tough right now? It's been tough.

It's been what helps, I mean, I think it's tougher for publishers right now because it seems like the pitch game is now built on personal relationships. at this point after you know we've been doing this for a number of years now and you know all the A&Rs you know most of the artists even so sometimes you have a relationship with artists where it's like I'll text

the song directly to them or I'll text it directly to you know for do I'll text Joe Kentish and be like yeah check this one out you know and it's you know Warner my publisher would love to help but it's just you know they do what they can it's like all these and it's not to their fault or anything it's just that that's the way it started to be you know It's like, you know, when Vanessa was A&Ring Selena's record,

it was, you would just talk to Vanessa, and I would send her songs, and she'd listen to the songs after the session. It's like, I think it's tougher for the publishers. For the writers and producers, I think it's a little bit easier, but at the same time, you know, sometimes a lot of, sometimes records aren't being made as often as other times, and there's just not much to shoot for. Are artists going to be able to record,

songs right now? Like, how do artists record songs in this environment? Let's say this lasts for two months. Are artists going to be able to record songs on their own? I hope so. I mean, if you're an artist, I would hope that you'd want to empower yourself a little bit to at least be able to track your vocals. You know, let me comp and tune it, but at least get me some takes, you know, learn, get a little SM7 like you have or I have in Apollo. or something like that and just at least, you know, a scratch vocal so we can, so I can work on the song, you know, or something. I mean, I've been talking to Warner Chapel and also to Splice about figuring some way

to get topliners who are a lot of like the idea generation, you know, the producers are nothing without the actual topliners. So I've been talking to them about like Warner's trying to set up some sort of like writer care package to send out an interface and a mic and you know like I'll add money to my recoupable if that helps you know if that's like a way of donating or something to to help ideas get you know put down on tape and sent around and stuff because it's easier for producers to send tracks right now but you know I was talking to julian justin yesterday on text and because we we were going to try to do a FaceTime session and just and just

just thinking of the logistics of it. Like, I can, I can stream my thought to a laptop. But for her, for Julia to record a vocal, would, you know, it's like so complicated. It's so complicated. But I don't know. People have been asking, you know, to do sessions. And most of it's been, well, why don't you play me a song that you've started? And then let's try to work on it, you know, but it's so hard.

It's so hard to start from scratch right now. But some people are doing it. I don't know how. I don't know how either. I mean, I think, because I've over the years, now I love starting from scratch with, you know, you in the room. So we can, you know, it's always like, you know, Ross, pick up a guitar. What? With me in particular?

Of course. I mean, if you're, if it's you, then whenever you have a guitar in your hand, you always plays something cool. And then we can start from there. Or, you know, now it's more like, let me prepare a bunch of starts without, anyone's input and then send it to you and then I guess you could send me something back. I don't know. It's definitely not as fluid. But we might have to just make it work. Might have to just tough up and adjust.

Evolve. Yeah, evolve might be it. But I mean, this isn't going to last forever. Yeah, of course not. The curve will flatten. Are you, are you quarantined alone? No, I have a friend staying in my guest house who because of this quarantine ran into some, you know, trouble with like finances because everyone's quarantined and, you know, and I have a space available. So someone is, I'm sharing my quarantine.

Luckily with someone and there's a little dog, which is like therapy. So it's been much easier having someone around and a little doggy. around. But other than that, dogs, dogs are pretty spectacular in an environment like this. Oh, they're therapy, literal therapy. Like, are you, are you doing therapy in a, in this, right now? Are you able to do that kind of stuff? My therapy's on a hold, but talking to you feels like therapy. Oh. I mean, you're very much a voice of reason. I've always been a voice a reason of my life, you know. You've convinced me to do so many stupid things.

I'm just kidding. No, no, no. For narcotics, the better is what I always say. No, you're one of the only people who are like, if you, you be like, I've been thinking about, you know, how the economy relates to what kind of songs happen. And I'm just like, whoa, let's talk about that. Like, there is, there has to be some. There is a correlation.

I know there is. I think when, when things are, I was going to say, when, when things are, when, when things are good economically, we can indulge in sadness, and if these are bad economically, we try to make ourselves feel better. That's what I'm saying. Is that like... That's what you were saying.

I agree. Nice. I think that's what makes the duo songs fun is that... Wow. Yeah. One of the few people who's still doing pop music is not pop music. Pop musicians

trying to be emo musicians. She's a pop artist being a artist. Yeah. And that's exciting, you know. It's excited to see what, you know, Gaga's coming out with. It's nice. Oh, God, the new Gaga shit is incredible. Shout out to Blood Pop. Wow. Holy shit. Also, you know what's really funny is, and maybe something that writers would find interesting is the circumstances that, you know, make that help, that can help a hit happen, like right when new rules came out and the video went viral was right when, you know, the Me Too movie,

started and it was very like it was very important the song was very important for that movement and or you know now and don't start now maybe like people need a good vibe because of all the surrounding chaos like sometimes circumstances can help a song but that are random and beyond your control and you you know you might get kind of lucky or you know you might get unlucky like you know your song comes out the same day you know drop something and you're like, no. Or, you know, it's funny how circumstances outside of your control, I mean, there are a million,

but like just worldwide circumstances and happenstance affect the successive songs sometimes. Isn't, aren't there a bunch of coronavirus memes around? Oh, yeah, yeah, that's another thing. Don't show up, don't come out, you know? Gosh, what a weird, what a weird, weird time. I've definitely seen a few that are like, you know, you're not welcome to my house. Oh my God, that's so good. Don't come to my house.

What fuck I was going to say something I forgot. Probably something about positive. No, no, I was going to say, have you talked to any producers or songwriters yet about Does anyone you've talked to, has anyone you've talked to thought about what makes songs go viral on TikTok? Because I feel like people are trying to talk about that more and it's such a weird question.

Because some songs blow up because of TikTok now. I mean, a lot of them blow up because of TikTok. You know, it's weird as a, somebody who's sometimes is more, you know, I am involved on the label side of things too. And it's like something that blows up on TikTok can absolutely be really valuable for a label, but TikTok isn't paying songwriters anything.

There are a couple of your publishers that are negotiating fees with TikTok, but TikTok's the largest copyright infringer in the history of the world, and that's not an exaggeration. Oh, I believe it. You know there were 1.9 billion TikToks of a hashtag full 180 from the a song. Wow. Like, people walking into a room and then, like, you know, going to say hi to my mom,

but the mom was pissed off and it says, did a full 180, you know, and like they leave the room or something, which is a night and that funny, but 13 year olds are not that funny, I guess. I didn't mean that. No payment, obviously, from that, which is, I don't care, you know, but. Yeah, but you, like, I understand you don't care, but that. No, I do. I do.

I do. but it translates to popularity overall. You know, it helps the song. But yeah, it definitely should be addressed at some point. But that's a big machine to go up against. But what is the theory behind why some songs break on TikTok? Well, ear candy. Moments, like little moments, like little breaks, dropouts,

lyrical stuff. I mean, for producers, it's like little sound effects and stuff, I think. I don't know. I mean, this is like, the conversation has just started. To me, it's fascinating, but also not something I'm going to think about when I'm making music. Honestly, I'm not going to think about that. It's weird. Some people say that I will say there's a, you know, the idea that because of skip rates,

people have started their songs with one of the hooks of the songs, you know, with a chorus or they started, you know, songs, things like that. My argument is that that's where music was for. 150 years of of music until like the last 40 years it was always even I always use the example of Beethoven's fifth still starts

with da da da da da da da da and then it goes off it doesn't start off with with that it starts at the hook and where there was an era all that everything from Bach Mozart Beethoven all the way until you get into, even through jazz where you start with the head, then you go into the improv, but you always start with the hook.

And then it got into this thing of like that you could do these long intros, you know, because people were more experimental with vinyl and so on. And they started becoming in a way less cool to start with the chorus, right back to where we actually started. This is actually a cool time to, you know, this is how we're supposed to, maybe how we're supposed to write music and and maybe has brought it back. So, you know, I'm not

saying that you have to adjust to TikTok, but people are adjusting to Spotify and a lot of people who were critiquing that didn't look far back enough to realize that that's kind of how people wrote music for years. I didn't look back and think that. That's crazy.

I rarely start with the hook. You could, though. I know. I mean, well you start with a hook you'll you'll put something some ear candy in the beginning yeah I mean don't start now has a little bit of the you don't want to see me but I remember always thinking about

Beaver's sorry and being like whoa that just starts with the hook that's so like it's it's felt so you know when I heard it I didn't even notice it I was like this song's great and then when I was really thinking about it like you know analytically I was like I have never just started with the chorus right off the bat, you know? And that's, it seems so weird. But, but yeah, it's funny. All right, now every time I'm

going to start with the hook now. Every time. In fact, I'm going to go back to my old songs and weak versions where they, my old, well, most of them are unsuccessful. All my old unsuccessful songs, just put the hook first. Let's see what happens. That's the other thing that I've noticed in the last year or so, because I've been working in the theater space a little bit, that that, that work, they never lock anything. They lock the, for that run,

they'll lock it in quotes, but they might even make adjustments throughout the show. And even right now, they just changed the choreography to Lion King. They just changed, like, they just added songs to Frozen on Broadway. And my question is,

why can't we go back to some of these songs and just be like, well. Here's a, you do it in film too. They do like a remastered digital. I mean, they do remasters.

Yeah. Isn't it Kanye that did something where like he released a song but then released a different version? Yes. He's the only guy who's doing it, but why don't, for sure you've released songs with major artists where if they just would have

just would have started with the chorus, it would have been a hit. But it's not to get there. And, you know, with streaming, there's almost no excuse. because you could just change a source file if you're Spotify. You don't even have to put a new version.

Or you can actually you should if they prefer the old version, which most of them probably will because, you know, demoitis happens or final songitis, whatever. I don't know. What is your favorite thing in your studio when you have all your toys that you're making things with? Making sounds. Well, that's such a...

like toys to play with are you are you recording this on your phone no oh because I was wondering if you could take us on a journey to how you make your ice too oh do we do a separate one where you

yes I have to make some I haven't done any in a long time well then this will give you maybe this gives it I'll go put some water in the freezer you got time right now yeah I'll make a I'll make a little a little video no now I'm using a web

cam. It's very unflattering to my normally, very tan face. Just kidding. It's actually very accurate. What's weird is you're not even wearing a hat right now. That's just it just looks so seamless with your beard right now.

I like it. It is. It's all my hair. I pasted all my hair that I've shaved off here too. So funny. Send them in the mail too because I need a little patch. Well, so can we hang out over the next few weeks? We can

I mean, no, legally, but we can hang out on FaceTime. Yeah, that's all I'm saying. I want to hang out quarantine style. Yeah, get on house party, man. Everybody's on there. I think I, I mean, for sure, I did it at one point. You just turn, is there, do you get a link or you just like? You just go download the app.

It's on your phone, on your computer, it's anywhere. It's random people. No, people that you aren't friends with can't join your room, but people that you are a friend. Like, if I pull up the app Oh, my. Yes, okay. I remember. Remember?

Yeah, it's been some time, but house party's great. I mean, this Zoom stuff is great. Also, like, you can do group FaceTimes, I think, now. Yeah, oh, for sure you can. You can group any of these things. Yeah, but I'm super down. I'm, uh, blue jeans. What?

An app called Blue Jeans, I think. What's that? another one that there's blue jeans there's zoom there's google hangouts there's microsoft whatever that is you know yeah oh google hangouts was dope i remember but i don't feel like i mean i don't feel like that's the wave right now per safe yeah it's just not it's just not what the kids are doing yeah all right homie well uh stay safe um are you just doing interviews all day yeah i am today i'm gonna just try to catch up with a bunch people, but I'm around if

I keep thinking that I'll write to tracks and stuff, but I don't know. I can send you, I have a directory that I've been sending to a few people if, because few people have asked, but if you're, you know, I don't think they're, I don't know, I mean. Just send me, send me something

from your directory that you're not sending to other people and I'll give it my best effort. You want that exclusive, that exclusive flavor. You give me an exclusive and I'll give you an exclusive effort in return. Damn, exclusive Rosco. into top line. All right.

Well, I appreciate you guys having me on and stay, you know, same to you, stay safe. I did. Drink water. You do. All right, bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of And The Writer is. If you want to hear music from this songwriter I just interviewed, be sure to check out our

Spotify playlist or visit our website at and The Writer is.com. If you like what we're doing, please subscribe to us. You can also like us on Facebook and Twitter. And The Writer Is is produced by Joe London, edited by Miles Bergsmah, and published by Big Deal Music. A special thanks to David Silberstein from Mega House Music and Michael White. Until next time, this is Ross Golan.