And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan - Ep. 82: Justin Tranter...Stays At Home

Episode Date: April 21, 2020

This Season 1 guest is one of the most in-demand songwriters in the industry. Since we last spoke, they've written on some of the most significant recent albums including Ariana Grande's ‘Thank U, Next,’ Jonas Brothers' ‘Happiness Begins,’ and Selena Gomez’s new no. 1 record ‘Rare.’ They’ve also worked with an impressive range of artists such as Dua Lipa, King Princess, YUNGBLUD, Camilla Cabello, Marshmello, as well as the diverse roster of artists, producers, and songwriters signed to Facet (the record label & publishing company that they co-founded). They have earned consecutive BMI “Songwriter of the Year” awards in 2017 & 2018, and Grammy & Golden Globe nominations. Throughout the years, they’ve continued to give back as a committed activist & GLAAD Board member, using their platform to rally for change across many causes. And in 2019 they were given the ACLU’s Bill of Rights honor for their activism, making history as the first gender non-conforming honoree to receive the award. And The Writer Is... Justin Tranter!Please join us to help keep the music community alive and thriving, giving it as much as it gives us. To donate or to apply for assistance visit the MusiCares COVID-19 Relief Fund site: https://www.grammy.com/musicares/get-help/musicares-coronavirus-relief-fundWatch this video interview on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/andthewriteris or on Instagram at @andthewriteris. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey guys, we are doing a few updates here with our alumni who we love dearly. And we hope all of you guys are staying healthy, safe, and staying at home during this quarantine. And hope you enjoy listening to a few of our previous guests telling you what's been going on in their life since they did their interview. Here are some updates for the quarantine versions. of And The Writer is. All right, we're starting. Justin Tranner. Yep, yep.

Welcome back. I mean, how many years is like four years? Three years? So, we've done a couple of these updates. And, you know, the first 12 we did, we recorded before we released any. So we didn't know, we didn't even know that anyone would listen to them. Yeah. We did yours.

We, I think, I'm pretty sure I, told you that maybe 300 people would listen to it. I thought it would just be our crew of people. I didn't know that we'd be you know. How many people actually are listening to it? We're at 3 million or something. Holy shit.

That's amazing. It's really weird. It's nice to know that people care about, you know. Songs. Songs. Yeah. But since we did yours, man what a journey you've had

you know she's trying her hardest she's working out here a couple BMI songwriters of the year a couple like a bunch of number one songs some of the biggest rock song of their decade and new companies and you know launching your own

publishing record company and like yeah ah plus like I don't even the board of glad yet you know it's like that kind of stuff yeah holy shit it's it's been it's been crazy it's uh i just feel so grateful i feel uh so lucky and fortunate that i get to do this for a living um i'll be super honest it's kind of odd to talk about like career right now as the world is in extreme crisis but i know that people want escape um so

So I'm going to try my best to, like, do an interview about being a songwriter. But I'm just to be honest with you, it's like, feels kind of weird. But also, but also none of the things that, none of the interviews we've had have really been about career in a sense that we wanted to do updates at some point. We're going to do in person things, you know, to make sure people can really talk about career. But yeah, I think it's just amazing the, even the life that we're leading right now in quarantine is. so not predictable for years ago. So it's like all of the things are messed up.

I don't even know what you're, what are we supposed to, what are we supposed to do right now? I don't know, it's been interesting, you know, because is, you know,

it's the, the little list that you listed, you know, all those things I've been able to accomplish is because I am like an extreme, extreme workaholic. Um, and this is the first time that,

like, that's not really an option. And I've been, tried to write and I'm working on a couple cool TV projects and I'm doing my best to work on those. But it's just hard because then, you know, the New York Times app comes up with another alert of some horrible news or something insane the president said, which I guess is horrible news. And it's just so it's really hard to focus. And so, you know, me and my business partner, Katie, had a call with all of our writers a couple days ago.

and just to kind of say hi and check in, like a big group Zoom chat, whatever. And I think the most productive thing to come out of it was just like all the amazing writers signed to us know that I work so insanely hard. And it kind of made them feel good for me to be honest and say, I can't even work right now. I don't know how to do it.

I don't know what to do. This shit's too crazy. And they were like, okay, good, that makes me feel better. I thought I was like being a loser right now. And I just think that there's no rules for this moment and no one's ever lived through this before. And so we all just have to kind of do the best we can

and take it day by day and moment by moment. There's a weird thing when you're a workaholic. I know you can relate to this, where the minute that there's a break, you fill it in with some of the other work that you've started because all of that is sort of fun. So you know, you're not in a session. If you're on a drive, you're going to check in with Katie.

And then you're like, okay, well, so I handled the writers, handled the label side, handled the song, okay, you know what? I really want to do a TV thing. And the things you touch seem to do really well because there's a certain, you know, there's a great expression of when you want something done, find a busy person to do it. It's true. You know, because they know how to, they know how to do time management. Yeah. Know how to do stuff. Are you able right now to do nothing? To be honest, I'm kind of killing it. And it's a weird feeling, right? Because I'm enjoying this time with my parents. I'm really enjoying, my parents are in the house with me. I'm really

enjoying this time, but it almost feels selfish to enjoy it because the world is in such fucking despair. Yeah, it's a real privilege to be able to enjoy it 100%. It's an extreme privilege to be able to enjoy it and I am grateful for that privilege all day and I'm aware of that privilege all day and I'm doing the best that I can to still help others but what's also weird too is the best thing you can do to help other I'm financially helping others but the best thing that you can do is stay the fuck home like do nothing like you're actually asked to do nothing stay healthy don't stress out you know what where how did we go from let's do everything and know what everyone's doing with social media, all of those things to, you are

supposed to do nothing. Do nothing. And so I was like, well, helping people, you know, like, fundraising and advocacy is like probably my truest passion, even more so than songwriting. And but right now, like, the most, the best thing I can do to be a good advocate and be a good human is to stay the fuck home. So I'm finding financial ways to help. people the best that I can. I'm just staying the fuck home. I don't know. It's a total mind fuck.

Are you know, both of us have publishing companies with young writers in it. And as you were saying, I think it's good for the writers to see that it's okay. You know, you and I were lucky enough to help out

our friend Ricky in the LA Times the op-ed. What he was saying is exactly right. that it's okay, we'll be here when we resume. Totally. Are your younger writers adhering to that? Are they still so ambitious that I have some writers that they can't stop. They just have to write, have to write, have to write.

And then I have some that are like, oh, thank you. I think it's a little bit of both, you know, but we definitely have encouraged, like, please don't do any sessions in public. Don't, don't, don't, you know, we can't stop people if they do. but, you know, I know at least one of our writers has gone back to their parents in Minnesota, Kennedy, who's

affecting amazing, I can say her name. She's told people on Instagram for she's in Minnesota. I'm not like keeping some weird secret. But like, you know, so I think it's just different for everybody, and people are still writing at home and people are still being creative, but I think for the most part, it's just such a mind fuck

that it's, it's, I'll just speak personally, I don't know how to be creative right now. Oh, totally. Well, there's also that the, you know, if you watch a movie, I've been reading a book that's on the Lusitania and, you know, it's World War I and the fabulous life that these people are leading on their way to Europe. And it's very strange how it ends and we know how it ends. But it's like, I'm in this world and then it says, it's great. You put it away and you think that you're, you're, you're still thinking of the book and then you realize, oh, wait, that's right, we're in the middle

of a giant pandemic and I'm out. You know, it fluctuates so much when you're quarantined because you don't necessarily see it. Yeah. No, it's true. I mean, I can't even, I'm having a hard time getting into movies even though. If news comes on the movies and I can't finish the fucking movie, so it's news comes on my phone and I can't finish the movie. You get what I'm saying. In the spirit of distracting yourself and entertaining yourself, let's just talk about Fassett House for a minute. Okay.

Okay? Because here's a positive thing that's happening in the world. Yes. And I think it's important. We're putting on positivity. Bassett House, you, Katie Vinton, obviously, our dear friend, publisher, record extraordinaire. The two of you guys

started this company tell me about Fassett House. Sure. So the company is just overall called Fassett House is the actual space. Oh, okay, cool. Yeah. So Fassett is a label

and a publishing company that we've been working on for a couple years now, but with this space opening in January, it was kind of the big launch. and the big introduction of the companies to the world. And it's just, it's been amazing and it's been so exciting. And it's a whole side of the business that I know about,

but I'm, of course, have a lot to fucking learn. And I'm loving learning it. But the big reason when I decided to do it is I wasn't going to launch like a proper company unless I had a partner who really knows how to run a business. So, you know, me and Katie kind of, it started as just like joke, like a fantasy that one day we would have our own company. And then we looked at each other like a year and a half ago. We're like, fuck it, let's just, let's just do it. What are the parts that you, when you say, there are all these things that you don't know about, what are the things that you've

realized in this process that maybe you thought you knew, that it turns out you didn't? And then what are the things where, you know, your instincts seem to, I imagine work, your instincts to find a good writer are probably similar to your instinct as finding good artists, are they not? I guess it's all kind of a lot of it overlapsed but just kind of when I say the stuff I don't know about it's like the

just like the full on logistics of releasing a record. The full on logistics of the massive marketing teams and the sync teams and all these things where I used to be in a band and it's in my band we would

we released albums and we toured them and we promoted them but you meet a couple people at your label and you learn but it's really seen behind the curtain is a whole other learning experience and really seeing what it takes

to make something work is mind-blowing and inspiring does it make you change how you view that experience I feel like now that I've worked on the label side of a couple releases that my maybe I'm

I wasn't holding grudges but I almost forgive and kind of understand why things did and didn't work in a way yeah that I definitely learning a lot there and like and also kind of the

the A&Rs and the people who are really really good at what they do now I like realize like they're really really really really good at what they do Like the ones who know how to, no one's going to write all the time, but who can really pick the single, who can really figure out the marketing plan. Like, that shit is not an accident and it is not easy.

And so it's made me just really respects and understand this side of the business a lot more. And also, I'm learning about myself, like what I love about it, what I don't like about it, what I can be good at, what I'm not good at. And, you know, it's just like, again, we're all in this business. so we think that we, you think you know, oh, they should have done that, oh, they should have done this,

and I should have fucking done that. But once you're actually experiencing it all on a day-to-day basis, it's a whole other, it's a whole other world to understand and learn. How do you break a new artist? I don't fucking know yet. I'm trying to figure out.

I think there's, there's got to be magic involved. The artist has to be willing to work harder than anybody else ever, ever, ever. But that needs to be in their own way, you know how they want to work they have to find what they're again just i was talking about myself as an executive even though i don't really consider myself an executive because um i'm not good enough to do that but like to wholly by myself you know what i'm saying um the artist has to find what they're good at and like really be open to it and be open to understanding you know how this shit works and all the

different opportunities and it's it's it's just so much so much and you can't you can't look at you know the couple people who like pop the fuck off in these really ridiculous ways I think if anyone tries to like emulate that that's not how you have to like look there's so many factors to to put in play

that you can't just like oh well that person went crazy on TikTok and now they're a superstar it doesn't you know one can plan how to go crazy on TikTok like good luck if you can fucking call me I would love to pay you a gazillion dollars to figure this out sure yeah and it's also too making me love though getting back to just like I want songs with so much more so

so much truth so much like does the artists know who they are does they know what they want to say do they know how to say it do they know what it looks like like it really takes me back to the joy you know I was young of like being obsessed with these singer songwriters and obsessed with these pop stars whatever you want

whatever label you want to give them it makes me so excited that I think that That's really, that's what's working right now is people that really have a perspective and they are fucking going full force at it. Whether it's Lizzo, whether it's Billy, whether it's Cardi B, you know,

people are just going, and I love that. Sorry to interrupt, but do you ever want to release music again? Fuck no. There's no part of you that's just like, I'm coming back out. I'm coming, like, now you've written for so many people, you've been in front man, now you're like, you know, No, I think, you know, I'm so fortunate to my band.

You know, I've said this a thousand times. I'll say it again. We weren't massive, but we did have a crazy, crazy passionate fan base. And we got to perform for them all over the world. And it was so beautiful, but it was so hard. It's so hard. Being the artist, which if you're listening to this and don't know the different, like we're all creative people.

We are all artists in some way. but in music business we say artist is like the singer. Being the person who puts your name on the record, like that is, that is, if you are 50 and you want to do it, please fucking do, but I'm almost 40 and I don't have the, I don't have the energy to do that anymore. Do, yeah, it's, it seems like a just, I mean, it was 20 years ago, 15 years ago. 15 years ago.

I mean, I started my band 15 years ago, yeah. 15 years ago. So our first deal was 13 years ago. And the band's been done now for like seven years. Like that's a whole other life. But I am, one of the TV projects I'm working on is a lot of it.

The main character is based on me in high school. So I am getting to tell my story. Is it then? Yeah? Yeah, scripted, yeah. It's really, really cool. I wish I could tell you what it is because it's really fucking exciting,

but I can't. But I am getting to tell my own story, even though it's the story of me at 14 years old, I am getting to tell my own story again, which feels really good because as the pop writer, I don't want anyone to ever, like, hear me in the song. I want them to only hear the artists. I want them to, it needs to be the artist's point of view.

It needs to be the artists sit in their voice perfectly in their life. I don't want to ever hear my, life in their songs, which I really love that process, but it is nice to have this one thing to kind of tell my own story again. But I do not need to do that through an album, that's for sure. Working with artists on your label, does it change how you're writing for artists not on your label? Now that you're like, or are you just doing you? I'm just doing me, and I'm just doing, trying to make the, whether they're assigned to me or not, just make them feel as comfortable and as safe and as excited as they can in every single session.

And, you know, try to make every song be their favorite song they've ever done. Lose You to Love Me? Obviously, it was a very big song that, to start this new decade. Yep. Kind of badass to, like, have to start. Pretty awesome. On top. But to work with

your good friends on a record Yeah It was really beautiful to You know we got Because of Julia's touring Because Mattan and Robin live in Sweden Because Selena's schedule Obviously you know

The five of us hadn't been in a room together For a couple years And So it was really Really amazing to get all of us back together and write such a beautifully honest, raw, deep song that has this hopeful overtone to it,

you know, like for all of us to get back together after a couple years and do that the first day we saw each other again. It was pretty fucking, pretty fucking awesome. And I just, you know, I love to, as I've said, five times in the last two minutes It's just to help an artist tell their truth is my favorite part of my job. So to get to do that for Selena and a song that really was so impactful,

it was pretty, pretty rewarding. Can you talk about the ACLU Bill of Rights Award? I sure can. I got the ACLU Bill of Rights Award in November, which was the absolute dream come true. you know, as I mentioned, advocacy and fundraising are like my truest passions. And to get an award from the ACLU for the work that I've done was amazing because it is what makes me joyful. And so to get an award for something that makes you happy and to be recognized for what makes you happy is really, really beautiful.

And to have Selena present me with the award was really fucking awesome. and my whole family flew in. You know, they've never come. My parents come to a lot of stuff, obviously. They live in Chicago, but they are here all the time. But my brothers came in, my nieces, my nephews, like everyone came in for it. And it was just such a cool fucking moment.

And I was also just unbelievably humbled by everybody else. And the other award recipients, I felt like, not in a way like I felt like embarrassed, but I was like, I need to do a lot fucking more. Because some of the other people who are given awards, they've been doing this shit for literally 60 years. You know, there was, there was, so I've only been, you know, I did a bunch of high school and then took a break to try to make myself famous.

Luckily, that didn't work. And they've only been really diving in, like, full force to, like, fundraising and advocacy for, like, the last four or five years. And so to get the ACLU award this early was an honor, but I need to like bust my ass a lot longer so that I can really, really be, you know, I feel like I deserved it. Yeah, says the workaholic. Have you watched the, have you watched Visible on Apple Plus?

No, I haven't. Oh, man. That's like the, that's the LGBTQ. Oh my God. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Sarah Kate, the CEO of Glad is in it. And as just always, she's so fucking brilliant. But yeah, I started to watch it and then got interrupted. But now I have nothing but time. So thank you for the reminder. And it's, you know, one of the things that I think, if you're not part of the community, you lose sight of is how much of a civil rights movement it is.

And, I mean, this is, you know, the idea of feminism started in the 1910s. Yeah, I mean, obviously before that, but, you know, the beginning of suffrage happens, and then really the word feminism is coined sometime in the early 20th century. Yeah. And, you know, the way that just it's fascinating to watch that documentary and realize how, You know, we hear about civil rights, often with race, and we hear a lot about women's rights.

And we know about pride parades, and we know about it, but as a culture, we're still getting educated. Yeah. You know, and so it's a fascinating documentary. It's cool to watch if you're, you know, doing your television show about your time in high school is right on brand, you know, for, for what that documentary is about. I need to finish it. No, it's still, you know, the LGBTQ movement is still so young in so many ways. And even our own community has a lot to learn and a lot to grow because, you know, we are,

because anyone from any walk of life can be born LGBTQ. Our community is so fucking diverse. It's crazy. And so we need a lot of learning and growth inside of our own community. community while we are also trying to get the rest of the world to accept us. And so it's still a very, very young movement in so many ways. And then, you know, we had, you know, the AIDS epidemic, only 10, 15 years into the movement, into the national movement.

Obviously, there have been LGBTQ movements happening locally forever. But like, you know, 1969 was Stonewall and the, you know, the AIDS crisis started in the early 80s. So, yeah, our community's been through a fucking lot. And I think that even allies to our community and even people in our own community don't know the actual history of how this movement began and how what work is still being done. And, you know, I feel so blessed to be on the board of Glad and get to listen, you know, to Sarah Kate Ellis. speak all the time to me directly and to our board and you know the work that she does and her her team does on the daily is um is so unbelievable which is also like i am so grateful for the

awards that i've been given for my advocacy and activism and fundraising but like there are people that do this all day every day yeah you know i am i am just uh fortunate enough uh to have my job comes with certain privileges, and I am not afraid to use those privileges, whether that is my money, whether that's other people's money, or whether that is my celebrity connections, I'm not afraid to use that shit. But there are people who do this all day, every day for their entire, this is their life, this is their livelihood, this is how they exist, is getting up and trying to make the world a better place. It's crazy, man, how much you're doing. I'm happy that we get to hang out and do some of these things like

I think that the song the music advocacy stuff is you know there's a difference between an occupational advocacy which I understand it's people's livelihoods

there's a difference between fighting for people to get paid more and fighting to make sure people are respected as humans I don't have people right They're separate. And not to say that, like, obviously, I'm happy to be involved for all the ways that I can help songwriters, but it's...

No, and the work that you do is important. You know, when I was on the show a million years ago, and you asked if I would get involved with songwriter advocacy, and at the time, I was like, no, I just don't... I have, like, there's bigger things happening. Trump had just been elected, I think, or was about to be... You know, it was a crazy time. And I was like, I just can't use any of my free time

to worry about, like, songwriters making more money. But then you said to me, though, but if you made more money, you could use it for the things that you care about. And so then like a year later, when Sona asked me to be a part of an event and blah, blah, I was like, well, Ross did make a good point. Nice. It's not going to be like my main cause. But if I can help, I should because, you know, it's not.

And then also the other big thing is like, why should people, why should corporations be taking our fucking money? Fuck them. They're ruining the planet literally all day every day. Right. Well, and also being a publisher and being, you know, whether you want to call yourself in a creative or not, you know, a mentor is being an advocate for somebody not in your position. It's just a totally. No, and I look at, I look at it's so crazy that some of these amazing, amazing, I always call them kids because they're all calling mom. It's the whole weird joke we have. But, you know, my kids, like, even though some of them are like 33, but they're like, you know, they've had, they haven't had, maybe they haven't had their huge hit yet, but they've had some serious fucking cuts and they can't afford to live, really.

And that's not fair because I'm not saying, like, there are people that do much harder jobs than songwriting, but it's corporations who are, they are making the money. It's just the money isn't getting to these young songwriters who need it. And so that's where to me it's really fucked up is why should corporations be making the money instead of people who are living and breathing music all day, every day. Are you still writing a musical? I am. Yes. Tell me about it. Can you tell us about that? I can't tell you the plot or anything, but we post on Instagram that we've all picked together.

So it's me, Eve Ensler, who did the vagina monologues, amazing playwright. And then Edina Menzel, the Broadway superstar and the voice of Frozen and everything. She is not only in it, but she's also a part of the creative team as well. So she's been writing with us and it's been unbelievable. And then Caroline Pennell, who's an amazing, I don't want to say up-and-coming songwriter because her songs are masterful, but new to my life in the last year is writing it with us.

And then a couple of friends, it's like very folk-based musically. So I have a couple amazing friends, Aaron Kanata, Ryland Blackington, who are writing, sucking insane guitar things for us to write to. And it's been a really, really unbelievable experience so far, and it's only getting better.

Are you guys going to do a workshop soon? Yes, we already have, you know, the company that we're doing it with and all that stuff, but it hasn't been announced yet, so I can't say it. But, yes, we're already doing the whole shabang. You can call me later. I'll tell you about it. Perfect.

I will do that as soon as this is, as this is done. Okay, perfect. Can you tell me real quick about, you know, black diamonds separate. That's, that's Katie's management company. That's management and that has nothing to do. That's like your songwriting, she has black diamond, right? Exactly. Yeah.

So we have facet publishing and facet records together. And then she has black diamond. But I am a black diamond client because Katie, you know, we're business partners and she manages my career in every way. So I am managed by Katie as well. So I'm a Black Diamond writer, person, creative person. How many of these things excite you, or do all of the things excite you?

And when you have that many things going on, it's just I know people where my demeanor doesn't really change almost no matter what I'm doing. But I generally, I enjoy all the things that I'm doing. Yeah. Do they all excite you equally and differently? Yeah, it's all so, so different. You know, the publishing company having young writers,

you know, my favorite part about it is, you know, when they get a cut, it makes me feel like, when they get their first cut or they get their first big cut, or they get their first single or whatever the fuck it is, it makes me feel like it's my first cut or my first big cut or my first single. You know, it's like, it makes me so excited about the business all over again.

Because you get, you know, it's no matter how I want to, I always try to stay so grateful and so, like, not get used to this because, like, I worked so long to get here. I don't ever want to, like, get used to it. I want to always be excited about it. But everything's relative and we're human. So you can get pissed and you can get annoyed and blah, blah, blah. But then when you see some young writer that me and Katie signed, who we fucking love, and they get their first big cut and they're so excited and they can't believe it or they just even have

their first session with like a alist star who's going to be in the room and they're like oh my god i can't fucking believe the Jonas brothers are coming today and it's like you know and that makes me so fucking happy and so excited um from the label side it's so beautiful because you get to literally make somebody's dreams come true you know even though you know it's we're still we're still it's still new and we're still only just started releasing a couple songs here and there with people just being able to like, for them to have this team,

for them to have a budget to make a video, for them to have, you know, to get in the room with some producer to finish their album they never thought they would get. You know, that to me is so fucking cool. That is so rewarding to me. And then... It comes, makes you realize that the dream,

I feel like when you get into this position where you're at, and you have a young artist that doing the music video, releasing music, that, you know, that is the dream. Yeah. It is the dream. Like that's, you know, and that's something I realized, like, because I was so dead. It's funny. We just talked about E. Benzler, we always, like, she can't, I was told that the way I got through all the bullying when I was young and all this crazy shit when I was young, my solution was, well, I'm just going to be the most famous person in the world.

and she dies laughing because she's like, why did you choose the most impossible thing ever to get you mentally out of this? I was like, I don't know, but that's definitely what I did. I always laugh at a alcoholic too? Is that why you're currently a workaholic still? Could be. Who fucking knows? But I always thought, oh, I want to be the biggest star in the world.

But then I really realized, like, no, I just love fucking making music. And so when I, the doors for songwriting opened and then I just started writing songs for other people. I was like, oh, actually, I don't need to sing this at all. I don't need to be on stage at all. I don't need to do the photo shoot at all. Like, I just wanted to make music and have people hear it. Like, that was the dream the whole time.

And I told myself, I wanted to be the biggest star in the world so that all the people who were awful to me would, like, you know, feel bad about themselves or whatever I was looking for. But then with age and time, I realized I just wanted to make music. And so on the label side, getting to help people do this, That is so fucking cool. Do you think this, you know, to bring it back to here we are in our houses

that music helped us live in, do you have, are you gaining any perspective on the last few years by having this forced quiet time by having your parents in the house? Is this giving you any, are there, have you had any opportunity to personally reflect on what's happened to you? Yeah, I just had an opportunity to be unbelievably grateful and feel, I just feel so fortunate to, you know, it's, I got asked to do something online, like some, I want to give you some things to take your mind off of the isolation or whatever it is.

And I was like, I don't think that people, you know, I'm so financially privileged. Like, I don't, I have no right to, like, give someone advice on how to get through this. You know what I mean? Like, it's like seeing celebrities talk about how to get through that. It's like, shut the fuck up. Shut up. Like, you do not know what anyone is going through. And, like, I just feel very, I've been able to, with this time, just feel so great.

grateful and want to do better and want to help more. And I feel so grateful I can take care of my parents right now because it is scary because my mom's 73. My dad's a little bit younger, but not a lot. So I feel very fortunate that we can all be in this house and be safe together and not my career has created this safety, but everyone deserves this fucking safety. Everyone deserves to feel as safe as I do. And this country's so fucked up that they don't.

So it makes me feel fortunate and grateful, but it also makes me angry that this country is such a fucking shit show. So I don't know if that answers your question. Sure, it does. I mean, I don't know the answers to any of this stuff. You know, that's the reason why, you know, we've been talking about doing updates for a while. I said, well, no better time to do it than when people have to be reflective

and realize how significant or insignificant their career is or how significant or insignificant their, you know, health is, people are really understanding what matters right now. It does. It makes me so grateful for my health too, like being able to fucking work out while I'm in this and be like, wow, that is such a fucking privilege. Like, having my health is such a fucking privilege. Like, yeah, it's really crazy.

And it is reflecting on like, you know, I am so grateful for my career and I just love making music so, so much, but it has made me go like, does pop music matter? Like when the world comes to these really hard points, and I know that music matters, and I know that people are listening to a lot of music right now, especially nostalgic music to make them feel safe and happy. And if one of my songs did that for anybody in the last couple weeks,

it's amazing, but also like what really matters, you know? Well, you know, again, since the last time we did this, you had, I think bad of love might have just started maybe, probably not. You know, Believer obviously was huge and all the Imagine Dragon stuff. I mean, friends for Justin Bieber. Just so many songs, man. It's nice to see how prolific you are. But like you said, I think it's always, it's most exciting to see, you know,

fellow songwriters out there prioritizing other people. I think we have to. You know, I appreciate you doing that. And, you know, we want to do when everyone can actually be in the same room, we still want to do, we're talking about doing roundtables and getting people together to really talk about other stuff. I mean, I think we'll continue to expand what this is as we all grow and try to find ways to have these discussions that are important to have,

especially for the time like this. But thank you. Thank you. and I'll call you a little bit so I can find out the behind the scenes details. Okay, perfect. Okay, cool. Bye everybody.

And if anyone's looking, I don't know when you're putting this up, but if anyone wants ways to figure out how to help people right now, just feel free to DM me and I'll give you a whole fucking list. Love it. Thanks, man.

Perfect. All right, bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of Anne the Writer is. If you want to hear music from this songwriter I just interviewed, be sure to check out our Spotify playlist or view it.

visit our website at and the writer is.com. If you like what we're doing, please subscribe to us. You can also like us on Facebook and Twitter. And The Writer Is is produced by Joe London, edited by Miles Berg's mom, and published by Big Deal Music. A special thanks to David Silberstein from Mega House Music and Michael White. Until next time, this is Ross Golan.