And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan - Ep. 83: Jason Evigan...Stays At Home

Episode Date: April 23, 2020

This Grammy-nominated, Season 1 guest is known for his big hooks, masterful use of dynamics, and innovative sound design. Since we last spoke with him he’s had a global hit with Maroon 5’s “Girls Like You (ft. Cardi B)” which he produced and co-wrote. As well as Maroon 5’s smash single “What Lovers Do (ft. SZA).” He’s co-written and/or produced for Selena Gomez, RUFUS DU SOL, Jonas Brothers, Ingrid Michaelson, Clean Bandit, Hobo Johnson, Charlie Puth, Bebe Rexha, Charlotte Lawrence, Chromeo and more. And recently, he and his wife formed a music duo called Elephant Heart, which pushes genre boundaries and expresses ideas of love and spirituality. And The Writer is… Jason Evigan!Please join us to help keep the music community alive and thriving, giving it as much as it gives us. To donate or to apply for assistance visit the MusiCares COVID-19 Relief Fund site: https://www.grammy.com/musicares/get-help/musicares-coronavirus-relief-fund Watch this video interview on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/andthewri Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey guys, we are doing a few updates here with our alumni who we love dearly. And we hope all of you guys are staying healthy, safe, and staying at home during this quarantine. And hope you enjoy listening to a few of our previous guests telling you what's been going on in their life since they did their interview. Here are some updates for the quarantine versions. of Anne the writer is. Jason Evigan, you are back. Last minute, this is a,

I've never done a podcast within 20 minutes of asking to be on it. That was pretty, you know. Well, actually, you hit me this morning at 10 a.m., but I was sleeping, so, but. I can't, I can't sleep that late. I know, but you also probably weren't up until five making music, so.

Oh, what were you doing at five? just uh I was finishing this Charlotte Lawrence song and working on some Stephen Puth stuff just you know

I'm a late night guy are you um you find that this time is allowing you to just finish stuff and focus yeah it's wow the cool thing about it is because for like the past eight years

I've just lived and died by my calendar. Like even when someone's like, hey, when I get together, I like have an anxiety attack. I'm like, uh, hit Nicole. You know, she'll schedule us in. So now it's like I have nothing on the calendar. So I'm literally going in and making music like I used to when I wanted. I'm just like, oh, I feel inspired.

I'm going to go work on something. So it's been like a crazy inspiring time for me, actually. So since the last time you were on this, Things have changed for Anne the Writerers. What was that? Things have really changed for Anne the Writerers. Yeah, man. It's crazy.

I mean, kind of look, there's, it's been probably three, four years since you did your interview. Okay. Maybe longer. Yeah, sure. But whatever it is, long enough that it's like, it's kind of bananas, man. You've, like, you know, you've had, you, you had like a couple of just massive songs in the last couple of years. Yeah. And yet you're still taking time to be creative and still be a human.

I feel like of all the people that I've ever interviewed, I don't know if there's anybody else who compartmentalizes or cherishes their non-music time as much as you do. Oh, wow. Because you do all the traveling and all the other stuff. How does having, you know, girls like you and, you know, like, how, having these kinds of huge records, you know, how do you deal with the mental game of big songs coming back, hitting hard, you know, you're back in like the number one spot and like breaking records kind of hit, and then also trying to be a human in touch with the planet and a higher

purpose and spirituality? How do you deal with all of this mental? game. I feel like you seem to always have things figured out and it just seems that there's so much, so much has happened for you since we talked to you last. Yeah. Well,

that's a terrible question. No, it's a great question actually. It's a great question. I just thought how you deal with life with this kind of spiritual success and Well, here's, for me, it's actually

really interesting because right before girls like you and what lovers do in that little section of like you know like time when like a bunch of songs came out that really successful like a couple months before that I was kind of coming to the term I was like you know what all right all my songs I'm getting they're kind of like album you know just album songs and I'm not really having hits right now it was maybe a year or two that I didn't have any songs on the radio or that we're doing well and I kind of just came to the terms with I was like you know what I'm just going to all right I'm okay with just being, like I'm not, I'm not going to make hits anymore. It's fine. I don't have,

I don't have what it takes, I guess. I really thought that, and I kind of actually, no joke, kind of came to the terms of that. And right when I came with the terms of that, I got in this super creative zone, because I stopped caring about, like, trying to make the hit. And I just went deep into, like, just making music for fun and realizing, cool, I can make a living off just productions and that kind of stuff. And right when it happened was when those songs, like the songs happened, and I made those songs, and they happened.

And then, and then since then, it's, you know, I'm almost feeling like I'm back in that same place right now. You know, I have a song. Yeah, it's like, interesting, you have this physical song of the Duleepa, like they just said, they're not going to US radio with it. So I'm in the same kind of thing.

And then... Why didn't go to US radio with it? It was all, uh, don't start now, they didn't think it was doing as well. So they put out physical. And then out of nowhere, don't start now. I went to number one for like months, you know, so it stayed there. It's all good.

It's just the way it works. But it's crazy when it comes to the spiritual stuff, I just realize that I don't function. Like, there's months where I go out. Like, there's months where I go away. I'm just like, or I should go away from my spirituality. I'm just kind of so into the game and the work and the whole thing. And I just don't function.

my marriage falls apart i fall apart i'm not as good as a friend of my my friends my family and i just realized like i've tried i know what happens when i'm not connected to to the source to the creator i i realize my life just doesn't function well so you know there's definitely times when i'm when i'm not and i just see it so it's like i i have to put that as just as important as my as my work or I just don't I'm not really functioning at my highest self you know that makes sense that thing that's happened also is elephant heart yeah yeah it didn't exist then it didn't exist then and here you're trying you know the idea of of when you feel connected and also being a good husband and all this of what's it like to be in a band a partnership

with your spouse creative speaking how do you deal with like that's fascinating to me I mean that's a new level of relationship yeah well the cool thing is Victoria's never been

like she's never wanted to be famous she's never wanted to make music for a living she never that was never a part of her like makeup you know what I mean she was never like so I definitely don't have to deal with that I know a lot of times when, you know, producers and they have a wife or a girlfriend who has music, it's a lot of that kind of resentment. Like, you're working too much.

Like, we should be like, you know, there's none of that. Her intention with elephant art was strictly to put out music to help people and to unite people. And so the intention with elephant heart is very pure. So even when, you know, our marketing people are like, we need more content, more of this. It just doesn't, we really have to keep organic. it doesn't work, you know. And it's been... Speaking of marketing,

the fact that you guys do it for fun, and then it becomes... I know. The damn AirCod commercials. What is that, man? That's like the V licensing dream, you know, spot.

Yeah. Crazy. Yeah, it's, it's, wow. It just kind of has been taken off. It's working, you know? What do you guys want? from it what do you like being back in a band do you want to do you want to go on tour if the right tour is there yeah like we're we're doing like lollapalooza we had lightning in a

bottle book we have and we've played some shows and it's crazy the cool thing is that when I was in a band it was like it was more kind of like me on stage and like I'm this thing and now it's this it's really cool like there is like this uniting thing with our music and what and what we see it shows And it's, so it just feels like it's less about us, and it's really about the music, and it's really about community. So it's refreshing. What's it like to release music in the middle of a quarantine?

I know, right? It feels kind of the same because releasing music now is a weird thing. You're like, oh, it's out. Like, this copy and this thing, this, you know, this piece of, which we are going to make some vinyl, I think. But it definitely, it's a little anti-climatic, especially when the album's been,

the album's been done for like a year or two. And then, but we also, we actually, we're making a quarantine EP right now, which is kind of cool. It's like these six-minute long, like ambient, just flowy, relaxing, like recording, just picks, like sounds and the clicks and all sorts of stuff.

So really inspiring. How do you make music for, Charlotte Lawrence Stephen Pooh and for Elephant Heart How do you do that? How do you jump from one to the next? And then who is the time in the day to do that?

Yeah. I don't know how I do that. I feel like... Are you fast? Am I fast? Yeah. People say I'm fast. I don't feel like I'm fast.

I don't, I feel like I don't know what I'm doing. So I feel like I'm always just trying to figure it out as I get on there. But, yeah, the elephant art stuff, it just literally, when we feel it and we're inspired, we do it. The other stuff is kind of like, you have to get in the studio and start, you have to kind of let the inspiration come. You're like, okay, then you crack the code. You know, like, I was trying to crack the code.

I started to start learning song for like a few days and I couldn't. And then I finally cracked the code. Is it good? Yeah. I think it's really good. Yeah. Andrew Watt and Alley and Charlotte. Hold on, go back.

Then it got jumbly. It was an Andrew Watt, Alley, and Charlotte's song. And then I, they asked me to produce it. So it was cool. Oh, amazing. Yeah. Do you like producing finished songs as much as you like writing them?

I didn't for a long time, but I've started to like, I did one on Sweeney's album. And I'm starting to really like it. I didn't like it before because I, because I'm kind of like as you know I kind of like finished the production the day of I kind of like get in a zone and then when I try to come and I'm like oh it's it's kind of hard for me

but I think I've worked past that you know what's next for you what's next for me I don't know me I'm signing you know like Gian's doing really well so it's I have my first producer who's like it's actually really happening so that's a good feeling a feeling of a complex

talk about that a little bit? Yeah, Giann was like basically my engineer, right hand guy, assistant took care of Anna, like everything. He basically lived here and in the past, you know, and then he got on girls like you, which was really cool. He actually, so he started, he would do all like my vocal tuning for me and he couldn't have sessions with me all the time and we were in the room with Siza doing what lovers do. And he was running the board. running the running the board you know

right at the computer and Jay Cash was there everything and so Siza starts we have this having a great time hanging out says it gets in the

booth and then I start giving notes that she's recording and she's like oh could you and Cash actually leave

I just want to work with the engineer I was like Gian's never done vocals alone without this is I was like okay so I left

I was like I hope this works out and you killed it so then so then on girls like you, I was out of town and Adam hit me and he was like, hey, I want to redo the bridge. And I'm like, I'm out of town. I can't do it. He was, oh, well, I have to get it done. So I told Gian just go in and record him. And then Gianne ended up writing the melody of the bridge with him

in the room. So that's how he got on there. It was kind of a, and from that, he's been, he's been killing as a vocal producer. He's been doing that. And then got the Jonas Brothers song. And now he's got, I don't know if I'm allowed to say, but he has a bunch of other really cool cuts coming out there. So it's all happening. And our write and your writers are working with him. Yeah. Our kids are playing, you know. It's like our children and nephews and nieces are all are all going to school together. Yeah. What were you going to say? How's it been for you the quarantine? What's, I mean, no matter what

There's I mean, no matter what having this conversation means that right now both of us are healthy and our families are healthy enough that we're not in a hospital or near a hospital

so knock on wood that we're fortunate that's kind of the first thing but that that said I feel like I'm taking time to also not do anything.

I feel like I'm really busy all the time and always filling up space with work and right now I've made some choices where I'm actually just reading a book or I don't know. I find it sometimes a little hard to be creative in this environment as well.

It's like half you can really go all in, you know, but have you found it hard at all? Do you follow the news at all or do you block out what's happening outside of the house? No, I do my news check-in like once a day for about half hour. I get enough news sent to me every day, you know, and, you know, the news is insane. It's obviously, it's so like, you know, you get the Democrat news, the Republican news, and it's just, I don't know, the news to me definitely is very distracting, and I feel like it really is, you know, if I watched Fox News in the beginning,

you know what I'm saying? Like, they were literally saying, oh, it's fine, it's all good, and all these old people died because of that, you know. So I don't know, news is not my thing. I definitely do keep up and check what's happening, but I also feel like, I was saying this a couple months ago. I was like, I was like, this sounds kind of more. orbit, but I feel like something big has to happen, like some kind of pandemic has to happen in the world,

because especially in our country, because we're a new country, we have really experienced real, like real hardship. And I feel like we're kind of living in this la-la land world a little bit. And I just felt like something big has to happen that's going to, first of all, the whole world. It's crazy. We're all sort of, are you frozen? Are you just looking down?

Yeah, it just froze for a second, right when you were saying, the world, why don't I call you right back and let's continue on? Is that okay? Yeah, totally. So we're going to start this next, going back to it. But this time, we have Peter Pugman joining us. I might have a Spurs joining me, too. She's not yet, huh?

you were saying that like that you know a couple months ago you were feeling yeah I was like I just feel like everything's moving so fast right the whole world everything's just going going going going even when it comes to climate and everything the economy individualism everything it's I felt like it was just coming to a place that it's something like this almost needed to happen like a reset I've been saying I feel like this the world needs a little reset, you know? So, while the pug is staring me in the eyes. Yeah, he's focused.

It's focused. So, you know, as devastating as it is, because I know there's so many people suffering because of it, I feel like when it's over, that there is going to be a lot of beauty that comes from it. I think so, too. I mean, you and I both put out projects before you have, had to obsessively be on your phones.

Even when you were doing MySpace. Yeah, it wasn't the phone. It wasn't the phone. You still had to go to your computer, so you were obsessed with your computer, but once you left the computer, it wasn't associated with your Blackberry. So you had your phone sort of like, you had your communication device, which is not the same thing as also your marketing promo and everything else. and there's, you know, trying to get the word out

and also trying to take in information at the same time seems impossible. It is. I actually just went, I went to this thing called OnSight in Nashville. A couple months ago I was feeling, I was like, man, I feel like I'm about to burn out. I just feel like I'm just going too hard. And, you know, I was thinking about,

I went from a one-bedder apartment in Venice, just me and Victoria. do sessions, everything. It was like, it was still crazy because I was working all the time to going to having, you know, houses, having six people on staff, you know, in all this insanity. And then on top of it, I'm being bombarded with information on my phone all day long. So at the end of the day, I literally, my bandwidth, I had no capacity for even when a friend's like, hey, can I send you a son?

Like a good friend. Hey, can I send you what I worked on? I like, I'd freak out because I don't have. our brains aren't actually why we're human being is not human doers we're not supposed to be doing so much all the time and our brains can't take it all in you know so i think this time is it's gonna be good i think for people to like you said him reading a book or you know i'm out i've been out in the garden just chilling it's like it was great yeah no one's as much as artists are expecting things for you it's good you can finish things yeah started but the idea that you really can't start a ton of new things from scratch right now. And we don't even know if any artists and not that many artists are going to be able to record vocals on new material. You know, I think.

So I think it's going to be a really interesting time to, especially for the music industry to slow down. Yeah. I just imagine that's going to hurt the art of it. it all. You think it's going to hurt the art? No, I think it's going to help the, I can't imagine it. There's going to be better music coming out. There's going to be, people are going to take time. Like, even on the Stephen Poo's stuff, I went in and I was, like, I felt like there was not as

much pressure, so I went in on, I was making, I was recording crazy instruments I've never recorded before and doing all this stuff that I haven't done before because I didn't have as much pressure on. I was like trying to make real art, you know? not like a factory right so it's opening the door from a dog

as you can see but um did you see what I did the other day online I did I did Instagram live and I started making a track and I said okay so send me stems like this one kid sent him crazy baseline so he sent it

him I started working with that and then I gave I made up an email and everyone started sending in STEM so I was just taking their stem and putting in I made a song with like 30 people. And it turned out really cool. Yeah. It was really cool. And like this is so, where can people hear that? There's a link. I have a link. It's send evigan stems. I think we'll see what the soundplata at home. It's not finished yet. It's up like I left it up for people to write over you know.

It was a here send. Who's, who's I do is it was I send? I send out. I send evidence. I send evigan stems. Yeah, it's just send up against them. Oh, send up against stems. Yeah, you hear the track. It's pretty cool. I just had the idea of the morning. I woke up, I was like, that'd be sick to do that. And then it's like, what if, you know, putting an album out like that and you give the proceeds to, like, the people of the music industry who are hurting right now or something like that?

When you're as prolific as you are, do you get inspiration from other music or do you get inspiration from movies, books, art? do you get it from being outside and gardening? Do you know, where do you get your inspiration from? I know some of this answer and I know we've discussed some of it, but I'm just curious. You know, when I'm like really working a lot and I feel burnt out, I do get inspiration from like documentaries. I watched that Love and Mercy, the Beach Boys one,

and I got like just so inspired by that one. I went on a rampage after that and made a ton of music. that was like pet sounds sort of stuff. Some movies definitely stillness, just like being still and letting ideas, like walks, taking walks. It's crazy. How just a walk can inspire so much?

There was, you know, in the 19th century when poets and authors, it was almost unanimously men at that point. And a professional writer was expected to take these long all-day walks

and not music writers authors and whatnot you know they were notoriously walking around the towns the writers are not people who sit at home writing you know

Einstein think a lot of it from walking Einstein thought of this I think is the theory of relativity on a walk in the beach. So he would literally schedule in. It was a part of his job was to take walks on the beach. You know? Like, I mean, yesterday came to Paul McCartney to dream.

So I feel like striving isn't always where the best stuff comes from. It's like letting it come to you, you know? How are your llamas? They're alpacas. How are your alpacas? And now why are they so offended when people call it? llamas. Lamas are more aggressive.

Lomas spit on humans. Alpacas are smaller, and they only spit on each other. And their fleece is way nice for the llamas. That's right. Do you let them in the house? Nah.

We have a next door, we have like a farm over there. So they, they just run through the garden and eat the grass and make great fertilizer and compost. Are you growing a lot of your food?

Yeah, we've got chickens too. So we have 30 fruit trees. We have artichokes, peaches, everything, like tons of lemon grass, like all sorts of stuff. The Avagans doing what Evagans do. It's Chumba Farms. It's just Chumba Farms, man. So with Elephant Heart, not to go back to that real quick, but do you want to eventually go to radio and do and move it in that direction? I mean, it seems musically

like you can do so much with that music but it doesn't seem like you're trying to do what you just did with the art you're talking about. You know, you're not, you're not, it doesn't seem like you're aiming for. No, we're aiming, like our, we're more like in the festival world,

like lighting at a bottle, electric force, the kind of transformational festival scene. Frozen again. Okay, so yeah, so we were telling about you doing the festival circuit. Yeah, and Elephant Art, it's not like, we're not aiming for radio, but if it happens, it happens.

I don't college radios, picked it up and stuff like that and some KCRW and that kind of stuff, but we're not like aiming for that, you know? Yeah. It happens. It happens. It'd be great. But we really, we want Elephant Art to reach as many people as possible because, you know,

like the intention that's crazy like making music with Victoria too but it's been so different is like well like pray before we make the music and like we'll set an intention before we want the song to do to people and how we want it to heal and you know there's such a and like bring people closer

to like their creator and so there's so much more there's so much intention with it so that so if it reaches masses then it's beautiful how do you I have this vision of how you guys are writing these

songs, but you guys are not sitting at a guitar writing these songs. So is it, you know, I know some of the samples are stuff you recorded while you've been, you know, around indigenous people wherever you are in the world. Yeah. But how do you, is that just Victoria singing in a booth, just being Victoria? Is that you saying, oh, I got this idea. Ah! It's crazy.

Yeah. It's cool. We have that microphone. right there you're the SM7 you go in the studio like for instance our song when you say goes she just went on the melaton down down down

I was like oh and I started I got the mic I start singing a melody and then she's like oh let's add this and it's just it's so free and just happens and we just we record as we go and the song kind of forms itself and then but yeah it's both it's both our melodies and

both our production a lot of sometimes she'll just come up with like a track in her little studio and bring it to me and I'm like oh this is great let's do this and so it's pretty fun what's a good chain for an SM7 I have an SM7 actually have nice mics but I keep an SM7 right here because it's so easy and I have a chain over here and I kind of still don't know how to do a vocal chain what's a good vocal chain I I run the SM7 through a Chandler and a distressor and then oh is the dresser yeah and I just throw on uh I mean, S&7 has kind of sound good through anything, but I just put the CLA vocals on there.

It's quick. And that's it? Is that what's making albums? Yeah. No way. Yeah. And then, of course, you know, you get your mixers to whatever they do. They probably just take what you have and make it sound better.

So funny. So that's how it's done. Do you really think, you know, you were saying, I feel like we started at one point, went to one point, one to another. than are working our way back. You were saying how right before, you know, you got into, you know, the girls like you phase of things, that you were questioning if what you have is really, you know,

and maybe you're an album track guy now. Yeah. I mean, and this industry has a way of playing that game with you, you know. Yeah, you're like, why didn't I get the call to do that album? Like my friends did or why didn't I? Am I not cool enough? You know, you have all this self-doubt.

Is it, is it FOMO? Do you look at people online and get FOMO? No, I don't actually. There's, it's more like, no, it's not, it's not FOMO for me. It's more like comparing myself to myself. I'm like, oh, man, can I ever do that again? Or maybe I'm getting older now. maybe they don't want me around or but it's not like it's not like phomo it's a weird thing

so we've been doing we've been doing on these interviews with you know hall of famers these guys who are 80 years old you know paul anka's of the world and here the guy does you know put your head on my shoulders when he's 15 or 16 you know he does my way that's that's you know, 15 years later does my way. And it's like another nine years later is the next song. You know, I know for this season we have Glenn Ballard, and he has these like very strange periods of smash, smash, smash. It's just not happening for them.

It's not happening for like five years. And then all of a sudden, Alanis Morissette and, you know, having a jagged little pill, you know, it's like the idea of what's so interesting is what happens in those periods where the hits aren't happening because, you know,

the late Allie Willis when we interviewed her, she was saying, you know, that's when all the hit songs are being written. Yeah. You hear, by the time you hear them, you're not writing hit songs anymore. And you're probably, you know, if you have even the luxury,

of a spurt of two or three hits in a row, then, you know, that's a really hard time to be creative. It's hard to be creative when you have hit after hit after hit. It is, especially when, you know, everyone's like, hey, we want girls like you. Can you do that? And like, no, I can't redo that song. I didn't even think that song was going to be a hit.

I don't even know it was like it was the simplest. We wrote that song in 45 minutes, and every time I try to redo it, it sounds like crap. It sounds like a cheesy-ass pop song. Like, so that was, it was something, you know, that happened with chains a lot too. And I did chains.

It was like every time, every session, people are like, we want that chains thing. It always happens. Every time you have a hit song, people want that again. You try to recreate and you can't. And then I always found myself in this weird slum because I'm just trying to read, you know, are you frozen? No.

You're just like, I was really, I was just. Yeah. So you find, you find yourself in this. You know, like, like I always say don't try to inspire, just try to stay inspired. Because every time you try to like, you're like striving, you're striving to do something. For me, I don't work that well. I just have to stay inspired and let the stuff come in. And that was like the last song on the Murr 5 album that they cut.

And I really did not. I was almost going to, I don't know if I told you this. I was actually going to call because they had like three hits in a row and they're like we're putting girls like you out next and I was like dude I was almost going to call their team and be like

I don't know if it's a hit dude I feel like it's like too boring and I just don't I feel like there's probably other song I didn't do it I didn't call him luckily and like the next day Cash was like yo we got you know like all these actors in the video and Cardi B's jumping on I was like okay and then this is crazy

you just never know what's the stuff you know so incredible Well, it's good to get an update from you and I'm excited to see the next phases of all this stuff, but I'm also a fan of Elephant Heart, so it's fun to catch up. I'm glad he sent me the album two days ago to check out. It's available everywhere. Called Seasons.

The artwork's cool. We found that when I was traveling through Peru. I literally in this little store, I found this photograph of this gem, and I reached out to the photographer he let us license it for the album so it's like such a cool there's no Photoshop brain

it's just like the picture with some cool lighting on it so I mean who all says I was in this saw this store in Peru and that's just so damn on brand

man I don't know how you like it's nice when people are just themselves over and over and over again whatever you know what I mean you know and part of you're the same way yeah but part of what makes what makes you use it,

even though you're constantly reinventing yourself in the Jason Evigan way. Do you know what I mean? So there's like a freshness every time. I got this, I got a new thing coming and said, whatever, you know,

whatever. I appreciate it. Alpacas is everything. You know, that's that's, Peru inspired the alpacas. Peru inspired the alpacas. Of course they did.

Yeah. Of course they did. Well, you're the alpaca king. You know, I got my bat to a blog. I'm trying to get off the ground, but it's not happening. Well, let's hang out when we are when we're not stuck in our homes. Do you want to try to do a little Zoom songwriting session?

I haven't tried it yet, but I'm down. I would do it with someone I know I know I can, like, you know, fall in my face in front of. Yeah, we should definitely. I've done. I just did with Charlie and Cash and it's fun. It's actually kind of good because it's a little like less pressure too. All right. Let's give it a shot. All right. Friday. I feel like I'm hanging out here now. I don't feel like I'm in the computer. Yeah, that's also true. I mean, the socializing is actually kind of enjoyable.

Yeah. You know, and you end up being really focused because you can't be on your phone. You can't be distracted by somebody walk. well, you can't have somebody walking out of your space. But, you know, and like, it's actually pretty enjoyable. Let's definitely, let's, I'll give it a shot. Well, thanks for everything you're doing for the music world. Yeah, man. There's not a lot of, like, dedicated soldiers on the ground because we're all too floaty.

Like, I'll wake up in the morning, I'll have a cup of coffee. I'm fighting for the music. You know, the people out there, and I write a message to Congress. and then like next hour I'm just like in some like some land making music and I forgot but you you stay constant so thank you we need all of it all right man well uh I'll see you back on Zoom at some point for a session hi brother all right homie bye bye thanks for listening to this episode of and the writer is if you want to hear music from this songwriter I just interviewed be sure to check out our Spotify playlist

or visit our website and the writer is dot com if you like what we're doing please subscribe to us. You can also like us on Facebook and Twitter. And the writer is, is produced by Joe London, edited by Miles Berg's mom, and published by Big Deal Music. A special thanks to David Silberstein from Mega House Music and Michael White. Until next time, this is Ross Golan.