And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan - Ep. 86: Ricky Reed...Stays At Home

Episode Date: May 5, 2020

This guest from Season 1 is a songwriter, producer, artist, and father who has built an incomparable resume over the past decade. He is known for his work with Lizzo, Meghan Trainor, Twenty One Pilots, Christina Aguilera, Halsey, Leon Bridges, Kesha, Phantogram, Bomba Estéreo, and more. Been nominated for 5 GRAMMY Awards, two of which for Producer of The Year in 2019 and 2016. He’s launched his label, Nice Life Recording Company, and founded the publishing company Nice Life Copyright Company. He was a major contributor to Lizzo’s breakout album ‘Cuz I Love You’, and co-wrote and co-produced the No. 1 hit “Truth Hurts.” These days you can find him on his weekly YouTube series, ‘NICE LIVE’ where he sat down with Ross for this interview. And The Writer Is… Ricky Reed!Please join us to help keep the music community alive and thriving, giving it as much as it gives us. To donate or to apply for assistance visit the MusiCares COVID-19 Relief Fund site: https://www.grammy.com/musicares/get-help/musicares-coronavirus-relief-fund Watch this video interview on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/andthewriteris or on Instagram at @andthewriteris. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey guys, we are doing a few updates here with our alumni who we love dearly. And we hope all of you guys are staying healthy, safe, and staying at home during this quarantine. And hope you enjoy listening to a few of our previous guests telling you what's been going on in their life since they did their interview. Here are some updates for the quarantine versions. of Anne the writer is. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to need you to give it up one time for the illustrious, the one and only. Mr. Ross.

Mr. Ross, damn golan. Yeah. We got him. I can hear you. I don't know why I did that. I don't know why I did that sound. I like that sound. That was a weird sound to make.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Boy. How you doing, Ross? Yeah. Hey. How's everything?

on? You know, it's a thing where I heard you asking people from zero to 10, and I feel like we're indicted with numbers right now. That's true. There's a podcast that I listen to a lot called Radio Lab. Oh, I love radio. And a great, great podcast. But this episode I just listened to, it's a couple weeks old, but it was sort of about numbers and how we constantly are listening to all these numbers and which numbers are we supposed to pay attention to? Right. You know, are we supposed to listen to, you know, the amount of people who got sick, are we, the people who died, the people recovered, you know, all these different things.

There was something really interesting about, this guy was talking about exponential numbers, and you hear about things that are exponential. and he said that there's a great question which is if I were to say to you like hey you know Ricky Bid if you're good I'll pay you a million dollars today to mow my lawn every single day this month or I'll give you a penny today two pennies tomorrow four pennies the third day you know for the rest of the month right you know and exponential growth which one would you take? I know it's the second one. I know it's the second one. Of course

it's the second one. Right. The second one by the end of the month you end up with $20 million. Wow. So that's how exponential growth is and the guy used the example I'm so off topic. I'm so sorry.

But this is just interesting to me. People want to know about songwriting math, bro. How do you exponentially make the chorus pop? Yes! Do you want your chorus to pop like 1 million pops or 20 million pops? You start the verse with one penny. If you have 30 choruses and you add one instrument for the first chorus to the next one, then you have a Lizza record.

That's an insult. Are you trying to say I have 20 million sounds in each chorus, Ross? No, of course that. So, yeah, anyway, one thing that was interesting about flattening the curve that's fascinating is this. Okay. If you want to think about exponential growth and you're a musician, think about feedback. Yes. What it is is, you know, you start at 20 hertz, and you double and you double and you double and you double and you double.

And that's how you get that. If your mic is really close to the speaker, that's how you're going to get something terribly loud. it's going to be impossible to even comprehend how fast that curve goes. Right, right. But if you do it, if you pull the mic further and further back, you can use fewer octaves, and that's literally flattening the audio curve. Yeah, it's true.

So it's a way to audibly think of what flattening the curve is. I think that's fascinating. I think, no, you're exactly right. It's also a metaphor for, I think we've flattened curve. I thought actually rather we had flattened the curve for technical problems on this show, but I was wrong. I was wrong. Well, here, I know you got a long show. So listen, live from Nice Live, we are doing the Ricky Reed and the writer is update. Yes, yes, welcome. And we have, we have our people in the chat, checking it out, watching us. We're going to wrap Yeah, you're going to have to read me questions if there's stuff that you want to respond to.

But there were a couple things that I wanted to talk about. You know, you're the very first interview that we ever had. We've talked about that before. I was nervous when we did it. I was nervous. It was before, it was before, you. you got nominated for producer of the year the first time.

It was only four years ago, by the way, so it's not like like I said before. It sounds like I just made it up when I said, hey, can I mention how many times you've been nominated for a producer of the years? It sounds not. I also had no children

four years ago. I mean, oh my God. Very different time. And now you've got nine. And now I have nine children. Again, you start with a penny. You have nine. children. That's what I'm saying.

You know, we can talk about a lot of things, but I think while we're on Nice Live, I think it's important to really talk about what Nice Life is, because I feel like all of it revolves around what Nice Life

is, and Nice Life is a lot of things. It's not just a publishing company, it's not just a record, company. You know, it's not just an incubator for talent. You know, it's not just a scout for talent. Right. You know, I feel like you guys are a lot of things. So I mean, explain what nice life is to people who just follow you. You know, I should have done this a long time ago on this show, because I just talk about it casually and kind of assume people know what it is, but I'm sure

people don't really know what it is. So to everyone listening, I think this is actually really helpful. So Nice Life is a record company. You know, we sign artists, we put out their records. It's kind of what you'd expect. A publishing company, if you don't know, something where you sign songwriters, often songwriters who are also producers, help them develop themselves, develop their sound, you know, of course get cuts or whatever, but even try to help them develop finding their own new talent and building their own kingdoms. That's something we like to say. You know, but the thing about Nice Life is that, like, the person who were named after Steve Brodsky, my late manager, we're kind of don't really consider ourselves so much part of the scene of the record industry.

Like, you know, Ross, use the words, scout, an incubator, and things like that. You know, we always wanted to be, you know, a family, a community, an idea, a movement, more of that kind of. thing and and even though the whole record label itself sort of fell into my lap as a partnership with Atlantic when I was having some success with them with their label, you know, we've gotten to the point now where we're actually developing a real family and community, of course, with Lizzo, who we'll talk about, but, you know, two of our artists are roommates, which is insane. you know two of our other artists are producing each other like they all show who these people are what's that can you tell us who these people I don't know if I can say

which ones are the roommates I feel like that's putting too much yeah but especially in the quarantine way they'll just get yeah you know exactly too many people in one target right right right right but then also yeah you have like Nate mercero who's a brilliant producer musician who I collaborate with a lot. We helped him get his label house, so records off the ground, you know, put him together with St. Panther, who's a new artist now that we're doing together,

but she also has worked with Junior Mesa, and Junior Mesa has worked with John Robert, and there's just this whole thing bubbling, and that's what our dream kind of always was, so it's really exciting to see that coming together now. Yeah, it's awesome, man. Thanks. You know, speaking of the success that you had with Atlantic and some of the things that happened,

not just with them, but, you know, 21 pilots was since then, that's Atlantic. You know, you did stuff on Gregia Shoman. That's Atlantic. You know, since then you had, what was that? Oh, I just said Iconopopop. That was in that same sort of era. Sure. you know, even just the idea of having outside of them, but Halsey, Leon Bridges, the weekend, you know, working on all those projects are so different from each other. And when a lot of producers get pigeonholed, and I believe we talked about this the first time,

how do you avoid getting pigeonholed? Why is it, I'm, you know, I would assume everyone comes to you and says, give me the next 21 pilots and you're like, sure, I'll go work on Leon Bridges. And they're like, give me the next Leon Bridges. And you're like, yeah, that's fine. I'll go work on the Game of Thrones soundtrack.

Like none of these things make sense with each other. Why do you not get pigeonholed like everybody else seems to? I mean, I have a I have a short attention span I sort of let my, you know, I let my interests guide me and like most people that

like a bunch of different TV shows or even listen to different artists, I just, I get you know, I get bored kind of doing the same thing over and over. It was evident early on when I had my first success with Derulo and Talk Dirty. And for a second, I was just like, okay, got to chase this down. Like, got to keep going. I have a hit.

Oh, my God. I have a hit. Like, oh, my fucking God. So, chased it down for a minute and made a few more records in that style. But it quickly became obvious people were coming to me, like, asking for the sax hook, asking for the trumpet drop and shit, you know. So 21 Pilots was the first really intentional pivot, which I give a lot of credit to my manager, Larry Wade. He sort of hunkered down with me and he was like, you know, man, we got to, like we were both feeling that. But since then, it's actually become a little easier just by letting it be my taste just guiding me.

Oh, I like this. Oh, I like that. Like, do you want to meet Bomba Stereo, this Colombian band? oh yeah, I think I heard them on KCRW. Yeah, I'll meet them. Oh, they're cool. Want to go to Columbia? Yeah.

And just sort of letting it be as simple as that. Yeah, but that's largely what it's been. It's rarely that simple when, you know, those artists that you're talking about, a lot of them, the floor is really low, you know. When you're working with, when for sure you could get in with people where you know they're going to move. a certain number of units. Right. You end up working with 21 pilots, who is nothing, but when you're, not nothing. They had a successful album, but like it hadn't crossed over yet.

Right. You know, they weren't a household name, you know. Certainly Lizzo wasn't when you met Lizzo. You know. Yeah, I mean, the thing, I started realizing that there were projects that I was taking, and everyone can relate to this. There's projects I was taking that, um, You know the kind of like artist that if you are at Thanksgiving dinner, you know, and like your aunt asks you about music or movies or something?

There's some shit like, you're like, okay, my auntie's just not going to know what I'm talking about. So you'll say like, oh, it's kind of like, it's like Katie Perry or something. And they'll go, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I realized that there was projects I was taking that were those. those kind of artists. Like, I can go home at Thanksgiving and talk about this artist and everybody will know who it is.

And it's not as fun to go home at Thanksgiving and be like, I'm working on the next developing thing, but trust me, it's going to be sick. And everyone goes, you know. But you realize after a while that, like, there's nothing better than breaking artists.

And I tell this to, like, up and coming producers and writers all the time. they're like, how do I get my song to Sam Smith or how do I get my song to Taylor Swift? I'm like, first of all, they're not taken outside songs. Second of all, look around that if there's anybody brilliant around you, produce them, lock in with them,

and be their day one, because all the stars have a day one. So find out who's going to be yours and go there now. I say that as often as I can. Do you feel pressure? Yes. from all the time. Who do you feel from?

Myself. What do you expect from yourself? Too much. Wait, way too much. Is it more pressure because of the success you've had than in the beginning when you wanted success? Is the pressure heavier now? Or is it just different?

It's different, but it's still there. I, having kids changed the flavor of the pressure to actually be something that I like a lot more. Interesting. I think the sort of ugliest version of the pressure I put on myself was since having success but before having kids. That was for me the time when I was just. busting my ass and beating myself up and like neglecting the people around me because I was just chasing down like pushing it and pushing it and of course like look like most of us I had been working for 16 years with no success so you finally can pay your bills and you're like dude I got to

keep this going of course of course right um but there's a point when you really are okay you're secure and then you're just grinding for like what and um grinding to disconnect or to ignore things in your life like all kinds of things like that so i'll say now i am i do still put a lot of pressure on myself i do still work um work myself too much but i'll say that now it's not it's not with doing things like trying to have the next hit. It's just saying yes to too much stuff that I really love. Right, exactly. It's like an embarrassment of riches on some level,

and it's, you know, it's hard to say no when the opportunities are, you can still say no to 90% of the things, and that 10% is still overwhelming when you're having a success you're having. You know, it's interesting. Do you get FOMO when you're seemingly the center of a lot of, you know, in a year where you have what you had and we'll go into it next, when your artist has, I believe, eight Grammy nominations plus maybe more, but I think eight Grammy nominations, you're nominated for producer of the year again. you worked on all kinds of

amazing projects but in a year like that do you still get FOMO You know that I am I wrestled with it a little bit but it was

it was sort of the first time that I got to take my foot off the gas I mean it had look it because I Love You, the album came out four days after my twin baby boys were born, so it's very hard to locate in my head what was sort of driving, what's driving what, you know what I mean? But I will say that was the kind of success that allowed me to sort of quieted like my fears, my like existential fears about being relevant or being on or not.

It was really like, it was validating, you know, and it, my creativity after that success felt so much stronger, so much wilder and freer because I was like, I just felt kind of like, okay, yeah, like I'm, I'm good for a minute. So once I got through my paternity leave and everything, it kind of got back into it, I felt fresher and more excited and just electrified. That's sort of the quiet gift that I haven't talked about that much since the release of Cause I Love You and Lizzo's success was the relaxing of the fear. and the sort of vibrance of my creativity in the wake of it. It's awesome. You mentioned paternity leave, which is not something that's often discussed in the music industry because it's filled with independent contractors who don't take their mental health and their personal time seriously.

How long was your paternity leave for? and before you answer that, I'd like to note that when people feel like taking time off is going to be a detriment to the hustle. They're making a big mistake. I'm speaking to myself and speaking to you and speaking to everyone we know that has some workaholism in there. Yes. That when you take that time off, you can tell that nobody's. going to look at Ricky Reed's 2019 year and think that you missed out by taking time off to be a good father. So kudos Steve for leading the way, but I'll let you answer that earlier question.

Yeah, well, let's see, I took about two solid months off, two solid months off. My sort of tiptoeing back in was really, really fun. I talked to my manager, Larry, who I mentioned earlier. And I was like, let's let me just sort of inch back in by just kind of saying yes to people that I'm texting with. You want to come through? Yeah. Like, we're doing this thing. Cool.

And leaving it really unscheduled. And I would say probably three, three and a half months in, I'm back on a full schedule. but the full schedule, you know, when you have that makeup at home, you know, twin babies and a toddler, the full schedule is a four-day week or often a three-day week. And to get to what you said about the mistake of time off, one of our mutual friends, a guy who runs big deal music group, a guy named Kenny McPherson, he was the one. I think it was actually Adelizzo show. He and I, no, Fidlar, Fidlar show.

He pulled me aside and was like, got real close. You know, we're at a show. Got real close. And he says, you know, you don't need to worry. You've spent all this time, you've spent all these years building and building friendships, relationships, a community. And I'm not just talking about me, like, to everyone listening, like, you have your circle,

you have your friends, your collaborators, people who love you, the people who love your work. It's like those people aren't just aren't going to just go away. Furthermore, you've been working for a moment like this. Like, you've been working for precisely this moment. where you can give yourself that, and they're all going to be there for you when you get back. Dude, I relayed that story to my therapist. I know it's very L.A. to have a therapist, but it's very helpful.

She's fabulous. But I talked to her through this. Told her that story. Oh, my God, I sobbed. I did not see it coming, but something about thinking about all the people. people that I love, all my friendships, all my relationships, this community that's so great that Ross, you and I are both a part of, thinking about all those people like being there for me and how it was okay.

I think, I think the last line he said was something along the lines of like, let them care for you, like let them hold you or something. And I was like, it fucked me up, man. I haven't cried on the stream yet, but it's coming. coming soon we'll get there you have you have

you have very loyal collaborators writers and artists I imagine they were encouraging about you taking the time off but even when having an artist

released an album and then you take the time off did you find it difficult at all in an industry where everyone wants you to be available at all times were they all okay adjusting to that new normal for a minute yeah I think it's who you surround yourself with you know and and I talk about artists that I work with writers producers people on the business side and how

you want to surround yourself with people who aren't just talented but are who like are kind and loving and everything. And, you know, I'm lucky now to have a group of people around me who are all, they know if I'm like, I'm out for a minute, I've got to take care of myself. They're all right there with me. And, you know, if you, I would say to people like listening, all the folks in the chat, if you feel like you need to do something for yourself

you need a minute you need a breather and there's someone around you who's not respecting that and they can be subtle about it they may say they don't have to just say like you'll fuck your mental health bro they don't have to say that but they might say like oh I thought you were going to come through oh like you we're supposed to

Oh, man, you don't like working the way you used to or like you're, you know, like you've changed. That kind of stuff. There's people like that around you who are not attuned to your interest the way to your, you know, your health, the way you should be, the way you want to be. Like, I say cut them. not physically literally just cut them out of your life this is what's shown in court when it was like for Ricky Vee told me

song writers are so litigious that what's going to happen is some songwriter is going to cut some guy because he's like right right right right so dark and so strange Lizzo. Okay.

You know, there's, it's so rare to be around somebody when they take off from nothing to, you know, the top. Right. You know, we've been fortunate where we've seen it usually from peripherally, maybe we had the song on the album. maybe we got to work in a camp for them. But to be part of the label, you had to be there from the, I think this woman is talented

through the four years of releasing music and nobody paying attention. To trying to get sessions with big writers asking for favors, even though they weren't favors long. You know, how much did you feel like the next steps in your career are no longer about you and they're about artists like Lizzo? Oh, I mean, yes. Yes, yes, 200% yes. You know, the, we're in a world now where the power of the artist, like the appeal of the artist. I mean, the artists have always been, from the outside, you know, what everyone sees as the thing.

But there was also like a lot of, you know, super powerful producers and writers and things behind the scenes that could really call the shots. And, you know, now more than ever, what I really learn with Lizzo, and what I also didn't even, wasn't even thinking about, wasn't even anticipating and working with her, like, when you see an artist that you're working with sell out their first, like, thousand cap room and all these people going crazy or crying, you know, and then you see him sell out a 2,500 cap room and you're watching the way they're touching people, like culturally, emotionally.

That, I didn't even know that was coming, because I had seen our. artist like perform my songs before and it was fine. But watching her get to the level that she was at the satisfaction, like the, all of a sudden it's like, oh, this is actually why I got into music was to help amplify the voices of people like her and bring the joy that she brought me when she first walked into a room, like to help her bring that joy to like mill. millions of people. Like, that's actually it. It's not because, like, just because I have, like, a soft spot for pop music and I'm a nerd for production, it is like, and I didn't see it coming, but it turns out that's what I discovered working with her. It's crazy.

Yeah, you know, I was going to say my last question was going to be about what makes you happy. I think you, you kind of nailed that, certainly outside, you know, and career-wise, you know one anecdotal thing before I make up a last question you know when obviously we did an update with you about the wrong man where you were the guest host right and since then we've done you know the show ran off Broadway had a very successful run we just got nominated for a few awards

but one of the highlights of the wrong man experience to start was that when you got nominated for producer of the year it was an honor to have it's a Ross Golan

the wrong man as one of the songs that you produced throughout the year and one of the projects it meant so much on many levels one to share that with you in some small piece yeah

um you know you just have you have options to write with a lot of things I forget that I am that that I'm an artist too sometimes

I'm always so used to doing what we do which is you know you go to the studio you write songs you do interesting stuff but that was one of the first times where I saw my name as an artist and not it wasn't under the wrong man it wasn't under the show it listed me

as an artist and that meant a ton to me. So, you know, I have to say thank you for that because that's like, even though it's a sliver of it, that was a really cool experience for me. That's amazing. I really appreciate that. Cheers, dude. Are you drinking

a way out of a coffee cup or no? Oh, I mean... What do you got? I can't drink straight from this, right? That's against the rules. Oh, no, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, instead of your last question. Oh, great. I want to, I want to, I want to open it up to the people in the chat. I want to do two questions, from the chat because when I tried,

when I fucking Gorilla FaceTimed you the other day, people couldn't hear you, they couldn't see you, but they were really excited. So if there's anybody in the chat, there's always a little bit of a lag here, but let us know if you have questions for Ross.

Ross, I'm going to have another sip of my drink while I wait to see what people have. And just a reminder, for the and the writer, it is listeners who are going to be hearing this follow Ricky Reed follow night's life hey and make sure that you watch nice live that's it all the nice life artists and writers and have fun because every night's a party hey party come on Ross show you know why you make the big

cookies fit see the love okay we got questions coming coming in. Let's see. Oh, my goodness, Ross. The first question is mental. I'm going to hit you with it because I think you are someone who can handle a question like this. Okay. Will Moore says,

Ross, do you feel that your career is as valid in a pandemic as it was before? Is it valid? Maybe you could switch the word valid for something. else. I would be eager to answer this question because this is a really good one. Yeah, you know, I think it's our obligation to help people maybe get out of this. There's been a great meme that's been going around, which is if you didn't understand the value of actors and singers and songwriters and screenwriters in a time where people can only be entertained by the work that we've done our whole lives up until now.

You know, you better play music yourself, but if you're playing music yourself and you're playing somebody else's song, that's a songwriter, you're playing vinyl, you're playing, you're streaming this, you're streaming that, you're playing board games that were designed by some other artists in that way. It's all been art. This is an opportunity. When you're entertained, you're entertained by people who create that entertainment. and I think you could argue that there's never been a more valuable time for what our industry does

than in a pandemic when people can't leave their homes. That said, I think it's also our obligation to take care of our fellow writers and artists who are struggling and who will struggle, especially, you know, our older brothers and sisters who are 60, 70, 80 years old, and paved the way for us. I think we owe them, and that's why we've taken all of our updates so far, and we've decided not to get sponsors and to remind people that they can donate to Music Cares, because now's an opportunity to not just give back with art, but to give back with your wallet if you're you're so fortunate to do that.

So yeah, I think you're not as valid. Now I think we'll be more valid as we need more entertainment. Wow. Hopefully that was fine. Ross, people in the chat are loving it. Also, Will Morris, the person who asked the question, said, all right, you read that way harsher than I meant it. Ha ha.

He says your answer was phenomenal. Thanks. I genuinely didn't think it was harsh. I think it's important to discuss the value of what. we do. I agree. That's what we've been fighting for for the Music Modernization Act. You know, a lot of people don't think of music as having worth because it's, you can't see sound waves. Yep. But you see right now when people are dancing to TikTok to songs that we wrote five years ago or songs we wrote yesterday and you see the value very quickly. I love it. Okay. So

we have oh Jason Vietes in the chat what's up buddy so we have a question we're going to switch it up this is our last question for Ross this is Dustin no sorry Dustin Bath I started to read in your name

but your icon was in purple and I wanted to read a different person's in purple so we'll do both two more questions Ross Dustin Bath says what do you do when you are not inspired or have writers block I mean there's a famous quote right the you know essentially amateur is neat inspiration you know if you're if you're pro you

you just make it you know i mean i don't know that you know you just went through it right so that you know you just you make up but they look around you right now all of you are staring at this the most incredible tool you have a computer right you know go on wikipedia hit random article and tell me that you're not going to be inspired in the first 10 articles you read there's going to be something about some person who did something spectacular you're going to read about it and write a song about their life not every song has to be written for the intent of it being a hit you can write a song about a person you can write a song about a situation you can write a song about a situation you can write about, if you don't know the listeners, that's fine.

Yeah. Like, if you don't know the artist is going to cut it, that's fine. And you can write a song about anything, but just write the song. And if it sucks, that's fine. Yep. You might be surprised. It might be great. Might be damn great.

I love that. And then last question from So Freddy, any advice on writing second verses? I like this one for some reason. I've said before that I think my tombstone would read, working on the second verse shouldn't take long. Because I don't think that there's a text that I said more than that. Oh, my God. The last line of the second verse is always a, oh, bro.

Now, let me just say, I'll say two things. things. Often your first verse is probably your second verse. Yeah. You know, like, there's a way to probably better set up your song than you think often. I think a lot of times people just start singing the song on the first verse, but they can probably beat that. Right. So sometimes the first verse is really the second verse.

The other thing is it depends if you're writing, you know, what kind of genre you're writing. Are you telling a story from front to finish? Is it a song about beginning, middle, and end? Is your second verse in the middle? Or is it all about the first and second verse? Are they really about the same thing said differently? Right. You know?

So depending on what your song is about, you can probably get through a second verse just by not giving up and, you know, having another sip of wine. Because it's, for some reason, I don't know how many times the second verse is the thing that sold the song. Yeah. Okay. Don't worry about it.

I got two answers also. One, if your second verse is the same as the first verse, I'm going to be bored. Second half of the second verse is always an opportunity to switch it up, like new melody, something's shocking. half of the second verse I love. Also, you're having trouble with the second verse? Fucking don't have a second verse. Start with the hook.

Do hook, verse, hook, bridge, hook. That's great. That's a great way to get around a second verse, if your hook is good. And it sounds good.

You know the song, Bad Day? And you had a bad day. Yeah, that song. You know that song? You know a five? There's no second verse. There it is.

And that's my favorite. It was the most played song, bro. That was the most played song in the United Kingdom that year. Huge song. Hey, I got to confuse for a second with, I used to always confuse it with, you know, beautiful, but now I know James Blunt is a fucking madman, and I'll never confuse him with anything else ever again. He's a very funny guy. Let's get into, Ross, will you stay for our, um,

for our demo hang? Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. Let's go. Let's go. Want to fucking drop into this shit, bro? We're going to bring... I got to get some sound effects. We don't have them yet. But I want to have sound effects for a different segments like, ding, ding, ding. So first thing... Real quick, because I'm not sure if we're going to be able to air this part on the And the Writer

is podcast. Let me just leave them the... Oh, yeah. when we do that if you want to see what happens next, you can probably go onto YouTube and check out this. I don't know, do you guys air this after the fact? Yeah, yeah. All the episodes are at YouTube.com slash nice dot life, nice DOT life. Awesome. So you can check out what happens next on that.

Thank you guys for listening. And yeah, exactly. And that was the party. Okay, now we're moving on in the next thing. go. Okay. Thanks for listening to this episode of And The Writer Is. If you want to hear music from this songwriter I just interviewed, be sure to check out our Spotify playlist or visit our website at and the writer is.com. If you like what we're doing, please subscribe to us. You can also like us on Facebook and Twitter. And The Writer Is is is produced by Joe London, edited by Miles Bergsma,

and published by Big Deal Music. A special thanks to David Silberstein from mega house music and Michael White. Until next time, this is Ross Golan.