And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan - Ep. 87: Ali Tamposi...Stays At Home

Episode Date: May 7, 2020

This Season 1 guest is a Grammy-nominated and multi-Platinum-selling songwriter who was recently recognized as the 2019 BMI Pop Songwriter of the Year and whose works have been collectively streamed over 12 billion times globally. Some of her most notable co-writes include the 3-time Grammy-nominated "Stronger" by Kelly Clarkson, the multi-format No. 1 “Let Me Love You (feat. Justin Bieber)” by DJ Snake, international hits "Havana (feat. Young Thug)" by Camila Cabello, "It Ain't Me (feat. Selena Gomez)" by Kygo, "Lonely Together (feat. Rita Ora)" by Avicii, “Anywhere” by Rita Ora, “Wolves” by Selena Gomez & Marshmello, “Let Me Go (feat. Florida Georgia Line & watt)” by Alesso & Hailee Steinfeld, “Girls (feat. Cardi B, Bebe Rexha & Charli XCX)” by Rita Ora, and “Youngblood” by 5SOS. Most recently, she co-wrote 9 songs off the latest 5SOS album, ‘CALM,’ 7 songs on Rita Ora's album, ‘Phoenix,’ 6 songs off the latest Camila Cabello album, ‘Romance,’ The Chainsmokers’ x Bebe Rexha single “Call You Mine", "Senorita" by Shawn Mendes x Camila Cabello and Dua Lipa's newest single "Break My Heart”. And The Writer Is… Ali Tamposi!Please join us to help keep the music community alive and thriving, giving it as much as it gives us. To donate or to apply for assistance visit the MusiCares COVID-19 Relief Fund site: https://www.grammy.com/musicares/get-help/musicares-coronavirus-relief-fundWatch this video interview on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/andthewriteris or on Instagram at @andthewriteris. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey guys, we are doing a few updates here with our alumni who we love dearly. And we hope all of you guys are staying healthy, safe, and staying at home during this quarantine. And hope you enjoy listening to a few of our previous guests telling you what's been going on in their life since they did their interview. Here are some updates for the quarantine versions. of Anne the Writer is. We are back with Allie Tamposie. She's back. Hi.

What's up? We were just talking about, you know, where the music industry is and how everything's affected by, you know, this break. And the short of it that's kind of interesting is that we really won't know because songwriters get paid,

so late. So we'll really get a good idea probably in, you know, four to five quarters, because you get paid for this quarter basically next year, certainly internationally and whatnot. But, you know, anything that would have come in from live performance royalties, things like that, that's going to be, that's going to alter, but most of the restaurants and whatnot had to do their deals with after, with ASCAP and BMI before any of this happened. So we just don't really know is the answer, but we certainly, we will know

after everyone else will, after everyone else is feeling it. I mean, it's different, obviously, if you're a touring artist and all that stuff, but for a songwriter... It's down. We do know that. That what is? Streaming is, the volume is down.

for sure the amount of people streaming and that is to bounce back a little bit which is nice like yeah i mean we are losing like the restaurants and oh right yeah you know pretty much anywhere that streams music outside of people's homes right now so i wonder you know and people aren't you know driving and and so yeah we'll see i mean definitely there's you know I, you can really sense like the music industry is sort of, you know, we're forming together. And artists are still super active on, you know, like, do a leap of just like right at the start of this thing put out a record that I wrote called Break My Heart. and we were all, you know, everyone involved, Andrew and the monsters. We were all like, oh, we're going to be like the experiment.

We've, like, been, you know, waiting for this song to come up for so long. And she just, you know, I mean, she's just like a, she's probably like, you know, one of the best of promoting her music, her team, and everyone. They're really, really active in that. So, you know, they found a way to adapt and the song's doing really well. So that's, so that was awesome. Encouraging for sure. Yeah.

A good example of the people who know how to take advantage of what's happening. Do you listen to music in this? I actually, I found myself in the beginning, listening, just going on like a, just finding artists that I wouldn't typically listen to and I went down the rabbit hole for like for a good few days um and yeah like I found you know artists that I used to be friends with um this guy jonathan rice he's just such an exceptional lyricist and it's almost like folk music he's actually from L.A um and um and I was just yeah so I've it kind of felt like, you know, when I'm going on like these sort of musical quests, it feels,

you know, what I'm tapping into, you know, I'm really, I feel like I'm really on a mission for lyrical content that just like, you know, brain shatters me that just like speaks, you know, just really, um, uh, like just a literature, you know, in a, in a song. And I, you know, because I, I feel like that's, I want to tap into that space and I feel super inspired when I read lyrics that just like, you know, really describe like the, you know, the, like the most subtle interactions between, you know, within a relationship or whatever and they just are able to like articulate the, you know, the deeper meaning behind like a simple, you know, behind like body language or something or the way like an interaction they're just able to tap into like

the psyche and and also do it in so few words and that's kind of um you know i want i really want to uh evolve lyrically and i think in order to do that you know there's only so many experiences that i can draw from sorry to jump around so much but like there's only so many experiences I can draw from. And, you know, there's only, you know, so I've really taken this time to read, to read, you know. Reading books or you read lyrics as you listen to music or both? Well, I do read lyrics as I listen to music, but reading books, like some of the great Russian literature, the brothers Karamazov, I'm getting into that.

and I find, you know, just, I don't know, the storytelling element of songwriting is just, it's what keeps me coming back to it. Well, that's one of the things is it feels like in pop music, a lot of people write, you know, it's the verse is, you know, the story is really about the moment, The actual length of the story is really condensed when they're writing songs. Maybe it's not like a book where they do some exposition and who what and where or why thing.

It's sort of she walks in the room. That's the exposition. And then it's we meet each other. The course is like, this is how I feel about that. The next verse is like, we're still here. The next one is like, you know, I'm still feeling the same way. and then the song's done. But the idea of these, you know,

reading Dustyewski and whatever and trying to tell a story from, you know, beginning, middle, and end, that feels like something you get in a lot of folk music. You get, you know, that's, that is the Tom Waits and the Bob Dillans and they tell stories, the country music. Why is it in pop music that people don't tell stories?

And can you, you have all, people, can you bring this back to us, please? I'm trying. I don't know if I'm intellectual enough to go there yet, but I'm working on it. I think, you know, it's, I, you know, so much of pop music is the sonic, is the melody, is the flow, is, you know, and I, especially, you know, with the sort of merge of urban pop music together. It's just you know, finding different, like I think there's so much

more emphasis on the cadences and the feel of the song. And, you know, maybe that has a lot to do with the production as well. It doesn't really open, you know, you can't really tell like this, you have to

match the tone of the song. So I find like, yeah, if you know, know, you don't want to, you kind of have to go with whatever feels natural to whatever's happening in the room, you know, you have to also cater to the artist. And, um, and it just, it really does depend on the song because I, you know, and, and you have to be also quick about it. So if you, you know, are able to throw out these, you know, big lyrical ideas that, you know,

spit, you know, in so few words into this, that doesn't, which doesn't, like, you know, take you out of the song, but just, like, brings you into a story. If you're able to be quick about it and, like, I think it, you know, that's, at least that's where I would like to be. I would like to just, like, spit some, like, intellectual, just, like, you know, word slams into, but I, it, you know. But how are you?

Look, you have, your discography is so vast and the amount of songs that you write that come out. Either your ratios, like obviously your ratio is really strong, but how many songs do you write that don't come out? You know, are you, is it seems when you say that, oh, you have to be fast because you're in the room. It's because you're very in demand, so you're in a lot of sessions, it seems, although I don't know how many sessions you're actually in. but it seems like you have to create a lot of content quickly and you're generating them at such a high level. How are you able to maintain the workload that you seem to have from my, you know, a couple miles away view? Yeah. I'd say collaboration.

You know, it isn't all put on me. like the workload is divided amongst usually four of us at a time. And, um, and, you know, I mean, for the last, yeah, for the last, I don't remember exactly when we last spoke, but it's probably been about like five or six years that, um, that Andrew and I have been collaborating together, Andrew Watt. and um and you know our are our sort of our sort of like team thing is you know we've we go in different rotations we'll find you know a another writer or another producer and and we'll just sort of find the rhythm that works but this the consistent um variable is

usually Andrew and I. So I think he has so much energy and he is, and way more than I do for, and he is a way higher tolerance for the business and the industry than I do. I think I'm now, you know, within the last year, I've been able to like alter my perspective on things and I've able to take in more than I used to

without getting overwhelmed or overworked. But I, yeah, he's just, you know, constantly, like, revving me up to like, you know, we're going on this thing together, let's go, you know, just. And I think I need, I definitely needed that motivation. And when I feel like we had just, you know, if we had just finished a week of writing and we had accomplished, you know, two or three songs in that week. I'm like, I'm ready for a month break. And he's calling on there.

Let's go. We got to go. We're doing, you know, we got to do this. And so if I'm not, and if I'm not feeling up for it, you know, somebody else will. I've sort of like kept my head down. And I, you know, I rely so much on the energy of the people I'm working with. So if I'm in a room with people that are just kind of, you know, I can also sit in a room and talk for the whole session. I'm happy to do that.

I don't feel like I get enough for that sometimes. But, you know, but yeah, if we're like, you know, we're in something happens in me. I get really inspired by the energy and I'm like, okay. And like the channels for the most part usually opens up and I'm able to tap into that space. just like pull out some content or figure out some story that I can connect to or go based off of what the artist is feeling. So, so yeah, I think, you know, I, yeah, I just, I, I'm going off of some adrenaline that's in me that just like wants to, like, is constantly feeling like, like I haven't written that song yet, that I'm like, that song that I'm just, you know,

it's going to like, like, just force me to like sit back and just, all right, you're good for a while. Like, you got this message out. Like, I feel like it's still bottled in me somewhere. And some of the songs that you've done since our last interview. And it's really hasn't been as long as you think. but it ain't me Selena and Kigo

Havana obviously huge song Wolves also Selena marshmallow going into young blood you know there was

easier and you know for five things in summer both those senior Rita Camilla and Sean that's just so big

you know it's winning be my songwriter of the year and at least once, you know, but like that and then getting all these nominations, all the other awards for a songwriter of the year for tons of different things. But something, you know, it wasn't like you weren't successful before this, but it gets to a point where the assumption is, you know,

when you're at, when you, like you said, you if you feel like you if you take some time off then that means that someone else is there to take that spot do you feel competitive like that do you feel like you have to maintain this i mean these are huge songs any one of these songs there are people who get in the songwriter hall of fame off of two hits three hits these are enough hits in two years three years like it's insane like do you feel like you have to maintain this level of success to be happy as a songwriter? I mean, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't competitive

because I'm definitely competitive. But I'm starting, you know, I, you know, if I'm constantly basing my self-worth off of the amount of songs that I have, that I'm like the road ahead album, I'm doomed, you know? So I'm starting to, you know, I'm starting to just re, I'm starting to alter my life so that, you know, because I've gone in waves over the last two years of like feeling just this overwhelming anxiety of like, you know, and I think the realization is like, it doesn't fill that boy that I'm hoping it would have filled, you know,

that like, okay, you've just reached, you know, Nirvana. You've, like, linked up to the golden verb and, you know, you have it, you got it. And I think that, you know, just with time and with the success, you start to understand, okay, like, you know, the more chasing, you know, the more I chase, like, what am I running from? So I'm starting to really balance out my life so that I, you know, and in doing so, I find that, like, I'm going back into the studio more so because I'm addicted to the process and not addicted to the chase. I love, you know, and, and I, you know, I'm, I, you know, I don't, you know, I love, you know, I love the people in this community. in our community, it feels like we're in, you know, we've known each other all for, you know, for so long. And like we're, when we go to like, I love going to the award shows because it

feels like a senior graduation or something, you know, and it's like fun to be around it. But I, you know, I, I, it doesn't like get me, get me off for lack of a better word. It doesn't, you know, it, I appreciate, I love everyone at, you know, in the industry as people. But you know it's it's not it isn't why I I do this and I know that happiness is not in another hit song happiness is not in another award it's just not in another check it's like and where so how can I like you know how can I balance my life so that I'm not you know so I'm reminded of like where you know, where can I like just so I'm just reminded that it isn't about that.

You know, it's just, it's... How do you find that? Like, what is it that? That is the thing that makes... I mean, obviously you love the process of writing music, but what is the balance in your life that allows you to stay inspired besides Andrew's energy? It's just being, you know,

know, it's mindfulness, to be honest. It's like it's being, you know, aware of the narrative that I'm living by, that I just not identifying with the story. I'm just the stories in my head. And it's being still and being present and like not living, you know, with the anxiety of the future or like the questions I have of the past. It's just like being right here and right now. Like, you know, like through, you know, during this quarantine,

the, the, my landlord has a pretty wild library here. And so I picked up the power of now at Cartole. And I don't know why I never read it before, I think, because I just put it in like the same category as like the secret. And it had such a, you know, there was so much press around it. when it came out and I just like affiliated it with like you know

just like you know just like middle age like people that are just like born again into this you know whole mindful realm

but I picked it up and it just like it shook me it like okay wow like I spent so much time in this just this with this self-destructive narrative that wants me dead.

Like, I don't have to live with just going 24-7, like, this isn't who I am. Like, that's, it was, there was some, like, really liberating moments reading that book. And, you know, I've been sober for four and a half years now. And so that, you know, my, my community of, like, in um in aa and like i have like i really am building a life outside of you know outside of the tunnel of the industry and stuff and so that has actually really altered my relationship with

the city with living in l.a because it's you know it it like prior to really you know two years in the sobriety i was like i you know you know I just put my head down and I was like, I'm going to get my career together. I'm doing this. Like, I am, this is my main focus. And then one day I woke up and I just like felt so emotionally bankrupt and like, you know, sober, but like not like not just, you know, sort of not recovering or just, you know, kind of just going. And, and then I was, you know, I was like, well, I'll be. happy if I, you know, if I sign a deal here, I'll be happy if I work with this artist, I'll be happy if I buy a house. And it's just I started to realize like everywhere I go there I am. And like,

so I, yeah, so this whole been on this journey of like, you know, of just I guess self-improvement. And like, and it's, you know, because I, it, it just, the way I was, was going. It just, I, you know, there was like, I had planned that I got to get out of this thing entirely because I can't, I can't live like this. I can't live with the going to sleep and hyper-analizing my performance in the studio and basing my worth on how I feel people perceive me in the studio. And am I, you know, my melodies aren't good enough for my, I really just froze And it's just like, and it, you know, and I would find myself just like stone faced, like, in some of my interactions. And it just became like really, you know, exhausting.

So I mean, is obviously, we talked about sobriety, I believe a lot in your last interview, but is that what changed from, I mean, you know, again, to go from having. had a hit, having had to have, you know, three hits to having a dozen hits. You know, I mean, there's a huge, there's this steep curve for what's going on with you and, you and Andrew over the last few years. Is sobriety, what makes a songwriter go from, I'm writing really good songs? Is it that people weren't hearing your older songs when you were writing them, or is that the songs are that much better? and is it all because of sobriety?

I mean, where does this huge, steep, you know, incline on the graph? Where does it come from? I'd say a lot of it has to do with that. You know, I just, I have way more time in the day when I'm sober, you know, and I'm just, I feel a lot better. The quality of work has gone up. Like, I mean, I, I'm just, I feel a lot better.

I can't even listen to the song. I'm thinking I won't listen. It feels like made by someone else. You know, it just running away from myself for so long, you know. And does it say the connection is unstable? It did for about two seconds over that last, the last part when you were saying that you couldn't listen to some of your older songs and then it went a little bit jumbly. Yeah, I'm gonna, I turned off my internet. Yeah, I think I just,

I have more time. I have, um, I'm like, is it still? No, it's good for me right now. Um, yeah, I'm, I'm like, I can wake up and start at, at, you know, my day at 7.30 a.m. You know, I can like, and so I'm ready to go by 11. My dog is crying outside my door and is driving me closing. Oh, I mean, dogs, like, when people think about home, like homeschooling, when if you have a dog,

like my dog has been in every session and every meeting I've done so far, to bring her in. And this is the part of the interview where I think about, I was going to say I have one of my best friends is, you know, a performance coach. And he always talks to me. His name's Dr. Bean. And I've had him meet with some labels, you know, about how you, how do you respond to, you know, having had a hit, having not had a hit, having to deal with competition, all the things. He works in Navy Seals. He works with surgeons, you know.

and he's the one who's really gotten me to remind myself to as he says be where your feet are it's so simple but you get all of us are such dreamers that's why we're artists and songwriters and then you know it's like when when it comes up what i don't know what we're racing towards so sometimes it's good to just sit there and actually look at some of the you know have a little gratitude and remember yeah yeah and i do feel like when and i am writing i am in the present moment you know it's like we're we're there we're in action it's happening but then you know it's after when we're just we're just caught yeah we're just you know caught everywhere but where we are and so and time

has a way of like, you know, just like this idea of like we're on this, you know, you know, we're just measuring ourselves by time. And like, and I think that that's really held us back from, from, you know, yeah, from preserving the now and like just so it's process versus the result. It's such a, you know, you. You know, all the general cliches about it's not the destination, it's the journey and all that. But the more you embrace that, the more you actually start to see all of it as a process and not, even that you never reach a destination. And you've, all people who've hit number ones multiple times with multiple artists,

those are still fleeting moments. Those are part of your process, as part of the artist process. your co-writers have a different process, you know, and it's okay to recognize that even, you know, you when you have never had a number one song, you want to know what it's like to have a number one song, but it's basically the same thing as not having a number one song, except for other people see you as somebody who has a number one song. I mean, the good part is you can hear your song on occasion. That part's pretty rad, you know? Yeah, for sure. And I think, you know, society isn't conducive to well-being, really.

So it's like, this isn't just something that you like flip the switch and you're like all of a sudden, here we are. Now we can, it's like you're constantly thrown off course by, by, you know, the way that, like, you're everything. Like, if we all lived on, you know, a freaking commune in Malibu preferably, by the sea can go surfing so we all lived in like yurts and you know

have like kumbayas every night and just lived harmoniously and that's all it would be about like it would be so much easier to just like and you know church was meditation and like we were spiritual connected to the divine

like all that shit it would be like you know it would be I think a lot easier to live, you know, to live happily, I think. Is you to sponsor this writing camp? Yeah. I'm so in, like my bag's back, all right.

But like the writing camp that without like, you know, without writing for something or just to write and just to jam, it's like, it's hard when, yeah, it's just, you know are yeah we're just so programmed this way we have been you know and it's so it just takes like you know it take it's on left to like the individual to really do the work and to like do it every day and eventually i think it just gets easier to implement it into your daily routine um but yeah i mean i i i just am 30 years old and i look forward and i see You know, I see, like, a family. I see, you know, I also just, I know that if I continue on this journey of, like, of just self-reflection and, you know, just expanding my consciousness and all that, like, I know that my life ahead is, is going to just be so, you know, it's going to, I'll have a whole life as opposed to, like,

just, you know, the music industry life, which consumed me for so long. So, I mean, do you write, in a weird sort of way, can't you write about, you know, when you're talking about these folk writers, you know, when we were first talking, it's like you listen to a lot of them, and you can write a song about anything.

If you're an artist and you write your music, you can write a song about anything. that makes these artists great. When you're a songwriter and you're pitching songs, you don't have necessarily that luxury unless you do, but none of us do it because we're also scared of the fact that if you were to bring a song and start shopping a song about, you know, what it's like, I don't know,

if you wrote a song called Surfer Girl right now and you weren't the Beach Boys, you know, who are you going to stop that song to? But if you were like the being in touch, with something bigger while you're in the ocean, it would be something you'd have to sell to another artist who would understand this experience. On the other hand,

you have the capabilities as a writer to write about these so many other things than I mean, look, you still write wolves and teeth and some of these things that are really interesting concepts that aren't just traditional.

But do you write about all these things? You write about these like spiritual feelings, do you go there and are you going there in the future? Do you write about seeing the future, seeing a family, seeing outside of the music business,

do you write about this? I find ways I think you know, I feel like these are also like relatively new ideas for me. So, you know, I think the more I evolve in this

sort of realm, the easier it'll be to like to connect um concepts in that way. So it's not just like one big song about enlightenment or something. You know, just like, you know, ways to talk about anxiety and stuff like that. That, um, that, you know, I find myself, yeah, I find myself just now like you know diving deeper when i'm talking about just either love you know and things like that so i but eventually yeah i hoped to you know improve my style of writing so that i can write about ideas that aren't that haven't really you know that aren't the typical sort of baseline thinking um And I think, because we, you know, you read Bob Dylan's lyrics and it's just like, wow, like how, you know, how does this consider pop music? You know, it's just like this is fascinating. Like, and Joni, and they were all part of the same era, you know, and it like, were we just smarter as a society then or what, you know, like. Those artists exist now. They're just, they might not be.

Well, there are a couple things, I think. One is that, not that you asked me, but I'll tell you what I think, because... I do. I'm curious. But, you know, if you have... What was great about folk music in the 60s was that was where the truth was coming out. You know, that's what we wanted. And to be honest, what we get from, in theory, what you get from good rap and good hip-hop are people talking about real struggles that are...

actually happening. That's where a lot of that is. A lot of the real storytelling and the real like what the grittiness that you get from the lyrics from Bob Dylan and Joni Mitchell are still being written. It's just now written in a form where people still talk about what it's like to be oppressed or to be afraid or to do with a lot of the things that those people were talking about. I mean, Joni Mitchell's different because I think she was like, she's a, I mean, she's an author. She's like hardly a lyric writer. She would actually, she was a poet, you know. Right.

But I do think that there's some pop music now that still references things that matter. It just tends to not be. For sure. The kind of songs people pitched then were getting cuts by, you know, There were still those songs also. The Brill building was going on up into the Bob Dylan era. Those were all pitched songs. And Motown coming out of that,

like Motown was just pitched songs, you know. It wasn't, those weren't the artists necessarily talking about it, you know, until Marvin Gay went and did his thing. And that's when it, you know. No, I mean, I think just like the last couple weeks I've been like, yeah, down the rapid hole of like Leonard Cohen, and even Jimmy Hendricks and like, you know, just like, it's, you know, Jim Morris and like having these like sort of mini psychedelic experiences reading their lyrics.

And but then you also get that like when the last Kendrick album came out. I was like, yes. You know what I mean? Like I got a Pulitzer Prize, man. The guys, like that's how good. That's who's telling the truth now. Right. Exactly.

And Rick Lamar, you know? Yeah, and you get Jake Cole and Nause and, you know, and so for sure, I mean, there, it exists of how, in that, in that, like, just like, I feel super inspired by lyrics. And I get that from, you know, Arctic monkeys. Yeah. He, um, who, Julian Casablanca's. He's an incredible theorises.

Why wouldn't you, I mean, most of the people you're naming are, they're all artists. None of them are songwriters. Clearly you're inspired a lot by these artists who write songs. Why didn't you ever get pulled into being the artist? Why did you not ever get the bug?

Or maybe you got the bug. but why did you, how did you avoid it when it seems to be a rare case? I think because I, you know, when the opportunity was really starting to present itself for me to do that, I started to like feel this shift pulling me and like in like really forming a life, you know, that wasn't completely consumed with the industry. and I know what it takes, you know, like it's, it takes just the shit that I just don't enjoy doing. I don't, I'm not really that active on social media. I'm, you know, I, I just know that I wouldn't have been able to give it what it really takes and also, like, feel okay.

And to be honest, like, I feel like I feel like I've put. so much time into into this into writing that I wasn't I don't feel like I'm ready to start at the beginning again too like it was just like you know

I because I feel like I've such a long ways to go in you know in songwriting like I feel like I haven't you know there hasn't like you know when I talk to my parents and friends back home and stuff too.

They're like, you know, they're like, you got to just do it. And it just has never really appealed to me in that way. Parents and friends at home all want you to be like, why don't you do the voice? You're like, wait, I don't think you understand. I know everyone who's like, I don't think they get the relationships that you have now.

Right. To this, a prominent female executive, who we were discussing why is it that what is it in recording sessions that why is it that there's rarely two women in a writing recording session and we're talking about the life of women in the business and one of the things that we were talking about is that most women either wanted to be or were an artist or they want to be an are an artist. There are very few, seems like women are pushed into being performers the minute they start getting hits.

Whereas guys don't are somehow excused and allowed to be just songwriters and just producers, women seem to are the assumptions they get pushed into being everything. And it seems like it's just rare for, what is it about the business that still doesn't enable women to be just songwriters? Or what is it that doesn't allow there to be women as, like, you could executive produce any artists on the planet right now.

What is it that, what can we do as an industry that, in, invites more women in and gives them the opportunity to do these kinds of jobs in the business that tend to alienate women. I think, you know, I mean, most of the songwriter, the female songwriters that I'm friends with that are taking the artist's route, it seems like they, you know, like it's it's been a part of their plan all along. You know, it's like that was, because it is, it is appealing if you have that drive,

you know, it is appealing to like, to take back that control and to not rely so much on artists singing your songs and the politics that come with that. And, you know, I, I've heard, you know, it's just, you know, it's, it's, you feel more connected maybe to the work.

And I think, so I wouldn't necessarily say that the industry doesn't enable women to just be songwriters. I'd say, I think that it's just this, you know, when you reach a certain point, when you know a key letter and the opportunity presents itself, to sign your own, you know, record deal and to, you know, to like, you know, have more control in the rooms that you're in because you're the artist. And, and yeah, just you can, you know, because it's, it, just being a songwriter, it's, it comes with,

it does come with a lot of anxiety and it does, you know, your, your, your performance anxiety, because you're, that's your, you're, you're, so reliant on your delivery. And I think you have more, um, flexibility and freedom to just express yourself and to, you know, like the writers in the room that you're collaborating with are there to cater to you. And so, and it's, you know, and in that sense, like, I have thought about it. Like, wow, this could be, maybe I, you know, I'm sort of like, suppressing this part of me, this like voice in me that wants to come out, it hasn't like screamed out enough for me to like draw very much attention to it. But you know, but going back to what you were saying about, you know, one female songwriter to, you know, in, in, to

every two male writers or producers. Yeah, I have thought about that, especially, you know, and I've been thinking a lot about it recently. I, you know, I just think there, you know, there are maybe they, I mean, are there more male producers and male songwriters than there are female songwriters? So I think what our mission as female songwriters is to generate awareness and like, and, you know, for like the next, the new wave of, of, of, of female songwriters and producers and like, you know, create more opportunities to be in the room with them and to,

and that's really, you know, another reason why I'm like trying to like be present and like refocus my attention is because I feel like maybe I, you know, I found a really good chemistry with Andrew. And that's been just like, the constant usually for majority of my sessions and then it kind of varies from different from another female topliner to or another male writer and we've been working a lot with the west bell who we started with from the very beginning so he's so yeah it does feel like there's there's a lot of male energy and i was actually talking um to elsie we've been talking a lot through this this quarantine about

that and it's just like you know I think, you know, I take responsibility for not like, you know, prior to this whole quarantine thing, I was in New York and I went to BMI and I sat down with Sam Cox and, and we, you know, we had made a plan to get together and she was going to introduce me to some new female songwriters that are, you know, are just on the rise that are really talented that she could link me with, you know, but. every, you know, there's so many, you know, the girls that I, I used to write with, you know, I love Taylor Parks as one of my closest friends, but she's the busiest human being on the face of the planet. Um, and so, you know, and she's also on doing the artist thing too. So I think there, you know, I think for me, it's just like I have to like get out of my own way and incorporate more, female energy into the rooms. And we should be all aligned.

I think that's where we got caught. Can you hear me? Can you hear me? Yeah, I think, you know, the general point of obviously, you know, we have, you know, we have a five or six writers, female writer signed to us now. out of the 12 writers we have,

try to keep it half and half. And it's been, they're all really ambitious and they're all just so good. And it's just been really interesting to watch and you just want to, you know, as where I'm at where I'm trying to open doors for people, it's been really an interesting thing to see what situations are most fruitful.

what are the best for the writers for the artists and it's just been fascinating to navigate the you know how can you open doors for young female songwriters who you know in the business period it's just an interesting

it's a different it's often a different road than it is for their male counterparts is all I'm saying you know yeah well just recently I started a charitable fund it isn't a foundation yet called creating creative waves and um and because it starts like you know like think

back to your you know your like childhood and stuff and like I don't know yours exactly but for me like music was like a part of my journey from like the beginning and so I'm I'm like I'm starting this this charity to to like to bring back music programs into schools because they're the first eliminated but not just like you know

classical music I'm like you know hoping eventually as it grows to put many recording studios in schools and talk to them you know about that process from a very early age just so because you know I think the

music programs need to be involved in schools because it's just boring now. So I feel like that's a way too to like bring, you know, get, bring like the awareness of musical production and songwriting into schools at like the, you know, elementary, at the elementary age so that there's no question. You should be able to, you should be taught how to use, you know, soft sense. and computers as an instrument the same way you would, you know, a flugelhorn, a French horn,

and the different variations of that instrument, there's no question that it's the same thing as somebody having to learn advanced trigonometry versus understanding how to pay their taxes. One is for sure going to be usable. You should learn both, but you should be exposed to the ways you could actually make a living at being.

a musician. Not to say you can't have a career playing flugelhorn, but you get my point. Listen, this was awesome and we should keep doing updates with you and you should stop by and you know, it's really good to see you healthy both, you know, physically in this time, mentally in this time and just such an impressive, you know, few years and it's just like it's so fun to root for you and to watch you just fucking kill it. This thing is so awesome. I'm so glad. I mean, I've just

watched it grow from the very beginning and it's just killing it. So it's great to watch. Thanks for having me. I'll talk to you soon. Bye, bye. Thanks. Thanks for listening to this episode of And the Writer is. If you want to hear music from this songwriter I just

interviewed, be sure to check out Spotify playlist or visit our website at and the writer is.com. If you like what we're doing, please subscribe to us. You can also like us on Facebook and Twitter. And The Writer Is is produced by Joe London, edited by Miles Berg'sma, and published by Big Deal music. A special thanks to David Silberstein from Mega House Music and Michael White. Until next time, this is Ross Golan.