And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan - Ep. 90: TRAKGIRL

Episode Date: July 27, 2020

Today’s guest is a music producer, songwriter, and entrepreneur who brings a versatile and dynamic dimension to the music industry. Her skill within multiple genres, as well as melody alignment, makes her a highly sought-after collaborator. Having worked alongside well-known producer and music executive, Ernest Dion “No I.D.” Wilson, She is the next “it producer”. Her work includes “MAINTAIN (ft. Nav)” by Belly, “Overstimulated” by Jhene Aiko, "Bad News" and “Pearls” with Luke James, “Slim Thicc” by Dawn Richard featuring our guest, as well as collaborations with Andra Day and Vic Mensa. She launched her DJ career at the renowned Soundset Festival and has also scored original music for projects with Rhude Menswear’s SS 2021 Paris Fashion Week short film ‘The Audacity to Dream’, Reebok, Gimlet ESPN/The Undefeated, and the feature film ‘This Changes Everything’ starring Reese Witherspoon, Shonda Rhimes, Geena Davis, and Zoe Salanda. As an advocate, she encourages women to seek greater access to roles in the male-dominated production and business facets of the music industry by providing mentorship and workshops. And her brand promotes self-awareness and women empowerment through production in music and technology. In 2018, she created The “7% Series,” (based-off the statistic that women producers and engineers make-up less than 7% of the industry) which is a unified and inclusive platform designed to highlight and create a haven for women in music. Additionally, she is a member of the Recording Academy’s Diversity + Inclusion Task Force and on Spotify’s EQL board. She has been featured in publications such as Forbes, Billboard, BET's digital docu-series 'Beauty & The Beats', NYLON, The L.A Times, ID magazine, The Fader, and The Huffington Post. Most recently, she launched “TRAKGIRL TV” on the streaming platform Twitch. The channel features original music and gaming content featuring interviews with DJ Dahi, Stro Elliot, and composer Amanda Jones. And The Writer Is...TRAKGIRL!Art: Michael Richey White Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey guys, welcome to Ann the writer is. I'm your host, Ross Golan. I've written with hundreds of artists and writers over the years, and my favorite part of each session is the first hour when we catch up about life, the industry, politics, composition, whatever. So this is a journey of learning why people write songs, how people write songs, and most importantly, who the people are who write the songs.

I'm producing this with the Great Joe London, big deal music publishing, and mega house music management. If you want to listen to the songs we discuss in this podcast, follow us on our socials, find out about special live events, or buy that merch, aka that hat I always wear. Go to our website www. And The Writer is.com. For a little bit of context,

we just wanted you to know that a lot of these were recorded before quarantine. And as we know, a lot has changed in 2020. So again, please stay safe out there. and enjoy the new episodes of And The Writer Is. Welcome to And The Writer is. I am your host, Ross Golan. Today's producer-songwriter entrepreneur is not just on the cutting edge of music,

but is on the cutting edge of the music industry, led by a string of high-profile cuts with breakout artists like Jene Aiko, Luke James, and Belli. This advocate has leveraged her success to champion a better future for women in music. She is the founder of the 7% program, which empowers female producers, engineers, and writers. This fighter is paving the way alongside some heavyweights

both on the creative and digital streaming service sides. From Florida, Virginia, and a bunch of other places, this leader is redefining the job description of a songwriter. And the writer is Shikari, Tragati. Girl, Linder. That was such a great intro, Ross. I mean, that has to be the greatest intro ever.

I should just do this intro for all of the people we have. To date. I need that. I need that energy. You could probably rip it from when we release it, you can rip it. Oh, this is going to be my official drop. This is my official drop. Yeah, exactly.

Before every song, everyone has every single song. They have to listen to that whole thing. Okay, I get clearance today. Boom. Yeah, done. My blessing. Okay, so you're ageless. Yes, I'm ageless. What's that like? You know, it's great. I can do what I want. I like to move like a mystery, you know. Someone called me a mystical creature the other day. Like I'm a myth or something. What do you think they meant by that? Well, you know, I don't really, I guess I'm like not in the streets, I guess, like publicly. Um, I use, you know, I use, you know, used to be very like inside in the studio but then you know I might pop out show my face

there's a lot of people who don't know what I look like actually it's weird because this isn't helping that cause do you know what I mean that now they'll know what you sound like and they'll know what your music sounds like but they won't you know and they'll get you know they'll end of seeing the caricature that you'll get you know they'll see the cartoon picture of you and they'll still be like it's so close yes so let's start As we do from the beginning. Okay. You were born in Florida.

Any specific part of Florida? Yes, West Palm Beach. Okay. A very quiet city where, like, older people retire. Very sunny, beautiful Palm Beach. What was your family like? And why was your family in that area? If it's where people go retire, do your parents work in that industry or something?

No, honestly, I don't really come from like an industry family. So, I mean, I have a musical family. They're all across, like, the southern states. So not just Florida, you know, Georgia. They're all, they're everywhere. But yeah, they just wanted to stay in Florida. Like, my father was, like, driving trucks. My real father, my mom, she worked at, like, retail, Costco.

But I had brothers and siblings who, was really into music. They, you know, sang in groups and they went to school of the arts and stuff. But I just, I was just like the oddball. Did your parents sing? Even though they were, you know, a truck driver and somebody who worked at Costco

and still do music. It had a really good ear. They put me on to a lot of, like, 70s, music, 80s, which I appreciate now. My mom, however, was quite classically trained in instruments, like flute, clarinet.

clarinet, piano, stuff like that. Did you have to play an instrument? She kind of forced me to do it, like the violin and the flute, but I didn't really, I would always lose my instrument. And I don't know, I couldn't really, I don't know, I didn't like, you know, what's the word? I didn't want to, like, sit there and, like, learn a bunch of rules and stuff. I just wanted to play different music.

What about your brothers? You said that they were in music? Yeah, so I had a brother. He played in churches and stuff, and he used to, like, sing in groups and stuff and tried it out. He actually was the first to really bring me to a studio, recording studio, when I was young. So you're the younger sibling. I am. And he was like, yo, you want to come to the studio? And I was like, oh, right? Yeah. And then I just literally saw him create. And I was like, I want to do this. So I guess my brother kind of influenced me. Were you in elementary school, or how old are you when you're starting?

be introduced to this. Wow, that was like 12. Yeah, that's pretty young too. So did you, when did you get, you know, a computer to start producing? Because, I mean, really so much of production is in the box now. So it's, you know, who introduces you to, you know, you can walk into a studio and be, wow, this is what I want to do. But there's a big jump between that and actually learning how to record music.

I used to bug him about equipment and I just listened and I researched like I think I googled or something. I was like, what's a good startup setup? And I worked at McDonald's when I was like 15. Is this in Florida still or is this now? Well, we actually moved to Virginia when I was 15. Okay. So we moved to Virginia and I worked at McDonald's. I played on the basketball team and I guess like, well one in high school, because it was like a

cultural shock coming from Florida, moving to a country part in Virginia. So I was like, what the hell? We're in Virginia. Spotsylvania County. Have you ever heard of Spotswana County? No. Why did your parents move there? Why did you, why did you move there? My dad's job. So he took us to Virginia. So yeah, I guess my way of like coping that. So I purchased a gateway computer and a Nakai and PD 16 drum thumpet. and started experimenting. Were you showing people,

do you remember your first song? Oof. I remember, like, my early beats. My first song, it probably was like my first placement. Like a full song. Let's go with your first beat then. Okay, first beat.

So when you have a beat, you're making this beat. Are you showing your brother? Are you showing anybody? I was in my room. I didn't want to show anyone. I didn't call myself a producer then. I literally...

What were you? What did you call yourself? Like, didn't your mom say, what are you doing constantly on your computer? All the time. You should be practicing your instrument. She's like, what is this? Yeah.

I was like, mom, just relax. Let me just... I got this. One day, I promise you. But I didn't call myself a producer then. I was just experiment and just, learn about, you know, sonics and how to mix things and different programs.

I was on fruity loops at the time. Yeah. Because I was, like, the easiest program to get for me at that age. It's still what people use. A lot. Yeah. Certainly in hip-hop, a lot of people use it. A lot of songs that are being played are made in fruity loops.

When you're in high school and you're a producer in, probably a small town you couldn't call me a producer yet yeah but you are just because you didn't call yourself one I wish I knew then I wish I had someone like you then to tell me that well I'm telling you now that you were then you know because girls didn't have

you know I didn't have that someone you know pushing me like oh you can be a music producer you know I didn't have that push then who does push you to do that at the time it was literally just looking at images of like missy elliott going crazy like her whole artistry of doing what she wanted to do literally had no limitations of creativity and i was like yo i want that what is it about virginia that produces so many uniquely qualified music makers i feel like virginia it's an area that just

breeds like rarity so like there's only going to be one feral that's only going to be one feral that's only going to be one child Hugo, it's only going to be one Timberland. And it's an area, I guess, that's not like oversaturated, you know what I'm saying, musically. I don't know. There's no industry there, so we have to get out of Virginia and spread out. So I think whatever comes from Virginia, it's very rare, it's very unique, it's new, it's never been heard of, and then boom. What made you leave Virginia? are you on the timeline. So, let's see.

High school. 16, 17, 17. I went to college in Virginia, so I went to Hampton University. Good school. So what? I'm 18. Let's skip to 18 years old now.

And I'm still in my room, still not calling myself a producer. In college? So you... Not yet. Soon I will be in college. But who... So you don't play this music really for anybody?

Not even your best friends or... You know, is no one hearing it? I probably played. But we encourage you someone to stick with something for four years without the outside. Do you know what I mean? Someone along the way has to be, even if it's your friends, have to be, that's pretty good. They didn't believe me. Even if they have bad taste or good taste, somebody's saying, I mean, certainly my friends in high school were like, wow, you're really good, had no idea.

I think I was just like just working on my craft secretly. And then college was when I really was like opening up because, you know, in college, you. You meet so many different people. And that's where I met some of my really best friends in music. And they actually pushed me like, yo, you should really take this. Start going to L.A., go to Atlanta. So, like, during, like, spring breaks during college, I literally go to Atlanta and just figure it out and meet different artists and stuff.

And then embed myself in the studio. So college really just pushed me to, like, okay, you can do this. It's a really progressive school, too, though. Yeah, it is. You know, I mean, as far as universities go, it's not, you know, it's famous for being progressive. Yeah, it's a tiny, it's a private school, a private institution. So it's like a tight family. I just wish.

I don't know, I'm probably making this up, but I don't know if you make your own major or it's something where they don't give you grades. Or it's like there's something, it wasn't like, I feel like Hampton was like a place where I remember reading that. It was just like, it was, they had all kinds of different music degrees that you could have, or is it not like that? Not from when I was in school. What did you, what did you major in? Oh, God. I started as a computer science major. Wow.

Because I'm a nerd. I just always had an interest in technology. Like I wanted to code. I wanted to program, create a software, create music software. So I was like, okay, let me take up computer science. And then that was just deadly. Did you ever make your own instruments, your own software instruments? I wish I got that far.

I actually changed my major and went to like marketing. But I still had an interest in music and I minored in music. But I didn't really like the music courses and I guess the environment culture for myself. Who really just wanted to be a creative. And again, I just wish, you know, know Hampton had better programs at that time. That's all of it was good. So if you're going down to Atlanta and you're like, hey, I'm going to get into this industry,

but I don't know anybody. How does somebody, you know, most of the people who listen to this podcast are people who are trying to get in and most people send, you know, questions like, how do I get my music heard? And this is the pivotal point in the story. for anybody who works in the industry has to go from the I want to get heard to getting heard and what is your process from going to Atlanta

to actually getting invited into the room? So I had a friend, his name was Jason, and he was another producer and he was always in Atlanta, always in the studio. He also was acting as like an A&R too and he was basically bringing records to Omarion at the time. He was working on his care package mixtape, EP or whatever. And he was like, yo, you should try to get on this project.

So I would literally just send him music via email to my friend Jason, who was in a session with Omarion. So it was like that middleman engagement. Who introduced your music to Jason? Well, we knew each other from high school. Oh, wow. Yeah. So like Jason, you know, he didn't go to it.

college. I don't think. He was just, he just really wanted to be in the industry and he was just building his career. So he was like, I guess he, I think at the time he was working with like Hit Maker, like Youngberg at the time in Atlanta. And he just knew those guys. He was just in the space. I was like, okay, cool. Maybe my music will be heard with whoever he's around. And I sent my music and that's how I got like my first Omarion placement. I was like a junior, sophomore, junior in college. Did the other kids in college, did they think you were the coolest human?

Do you know what I mean? Like who in college is actually starting to get cuts? Did you have any idea what was happening to your career while also being in school? Back then, no, but I can appreciate it now. You know, back then I was just so young. I was just excited that my music was with a major artist, like a major artist cut my record.

You know, I wasn't thinking about, this is unfortunate, but credit, proper credit, how things are being synced, publishing on the business side of things. I wasn't thinking about that back then. What was unfortunate about it? I just wish I, I guess, took advantage of the moment better, I guess. What would you have done differently? I just knew.

excuse me unfortunately just the credit part wasn't right unfortunately I don't want to like shade someone when the song was cut did you get a chance to hear it

before it came out no why I don't know Jason where are you Jason when it came out were you

it was a surprise it was like a Beyonce moment you know how Beyonce just drops music? Like it was like a surprise for me, to me. Yeah. But I wish I would have, I could have, I guess, took advantage of the situation, like

be in the session or knew who the engineer was. Like, there needs to be any changes to the song. Like, it happens like that though. Right? I mean, I mean, I think for most people when they get their first cuts, it's rare that they're the ones that,

are leading the session and figuring out, you know, like, you're just getting in the door that way. You're right. It's still a cool way to. It's an awesome way. I mean, I do appreciate that moment for sure because then it was like, okay, track girl, you know. And then the internet was slowly starting to take shape musically.

I think when did SoundCloud start, 2010? When did, after Omarion, you're in college. Did you finish school? And then? Barely. But yes, I finished school. Perfect. I mean, no one's ever going to ask you this question besides this moment.

You, Ross. Thank you. I love your questions. Did you move from, you went from Hampton College to New York? No. So, okay, so after I graduated from Hampton University, I got a job. Uh-huh. You know, my parents,

were very adamant about me getting a job. So I worked for the federal government before I even, like, did pursued music full-time. What did you do for the federal government? I can't tell you that. Wow, that's exciting. I'm nervous now. I feel like this is...

I did various things. I was a contractor. Yeah. And then I filled seats. Just say I filled a seat. That's a good. That's fun. And where were you based then?

I was in Northern Virginia at that time. So I lived in, yeah, DC slash Virginia. What, Arlington, Virginia? What, it feels like there are a lot of things in this moment that could probably just make you feel like you were done with music. Oh my God, yes. Because, who, even she knows, Ashley knows, just having like a nine,

there's nothing wrong with a nine to five because I used that nine to five to be for a stepping stone to fund, you know, what I wanted to do was, you know, travel by my equipment and stuff, learn, enhance my skills and stuff. Because I'm still an independent, you know, artists per se. But, yeah, I use that as like a crutch to where I wanted to get to. What gets you out of the nine to five? I mean, the same question as like knocking on the doors in Atlanta. certainly you know

you're when you there's an expression that you know good is the enemy of great and when you have an income and health insurance and all the things you get from a government job why did you

I mean I understand why you left but why did you leave so let's see where are we in the story why did I leave I just got tired I couldn't create when I wanted to I just felt boxed in

I was literally getting depressed because I was like why am I? I always think why am I here but you're right you know those resources giving up health insurance giving up a steady income I wanted to just take a risk because I knew well I need to

I need to take this risk in order to get to a certain place but I was strategic with it though so like I guess we can fast forward to how I met Ashley, I just felt like I just had this mantra that producers are essentially artists and they can do certain things that artists do, producers can do as well. So, for example, I really wanted to work with brands.

I wanted to do music for different campaigns. I wanted to potentially have my music and films. I wanted to just do different things. And I was like, look, I sat down. So how can I create income? Because at the time, you know, producers aren't getting. paid a lot like starting off you know it's hard to get our fee we get back ended all the time just crazy stuff so it's like well how can i create a steady income while that is being handled

in different lanes and stuff like that so i'm at ashley um there's a lot it's a it's a it's a roadmap but we can yeah no let's go down the road man let's go down the road map you know i mean There's a learning about what you were saying, how you wished that you knew about publishing and credit and all that stuff from the beginning. And then also, I feel like that's hand in hand and how do you make a living at it. Yes. You know, knowing what you want to do and having that mantra, how do you still go from that mantra to actually, you know, meeting Ashley and explain who Ashley is, although I see her right now. Other people can't. So explain who Ashley is and then explain

what it's like to go from being these are things I want to do to doing them. Yeah. So Ashley, she's lovely. She's a boss. She's my manager. More so on the brand side of things and the film side. And we met in D.C.

And when we first met each other, I was just trying to fill her out. A lot of people told me about her. Great reputation. Just awesome. person. And, you know, we took like six months to really get to know each other before we started, like, you know, hit the ground running with my career, which is important. And then since then, like, she understood, like, my vision and goals. And, you know, she was just really excited about me. And I haven't, you know, felt excited about music. Because at that point, you know, it was just, I was really, like, low in a sense. And she just gave me more info to be like, yo, like, you can.

really kill it. Yeah. What's the thing that brings you from, you know, this, I don't know exactly what year we're at, but from looking at the discography, you all of a sudden have songs with Luke James, and, I mean, I even see that there's a co-write with Diddy on it? Is that what it says? I don't know. I literally says co-written with.

Shout out to Diddy. Yeah, maybe it's a sample. or something? It might be a... Bad news? There was no sample in that. Maybe that's a mis-type of. There's no sample in bad news.

Delete. Highlight, delete that part. Okay, so... It's hard to clear samples. Come on, I want to keep my bread. Ross. Do you not use samples? I do sometimes, but like, it's hard to clear samples.

Why is it so hard to clear samples? There's a sample I want to clear now. And what's so hard about clearing it? Because someone owns the rights to the artists, and they won't. don't clear it. They won't allow it at all or even. It just takes time. I don't know why it takes so long.

Yeah. Back and forth. Yeah. Do you want to be more of an artist or a producer? I want to be both. More so production though. I would love to like have a lengthy discography that was just unique and not the norm, which I really wanted to and not stay in one genre.

but now like it's it's hard to get in these rooms so now I'm trying to just think of like how I can start releasing music and maybe doing my own projects or the artists that I do know why don't we come together and do like a full project together as a challenge to myself so when you want to curate your own discography it's one of the hardest things for writers to do but I know a lot of people who want to do it and some people really succeed at it you know Benny Blanco is a good example. Somebody who refused to work with artists he didn't want to work with. And then, you know, maybe there are certain times when he wants to work with an artist, but he never, you know, like sold out, we'll say. Right. You know, he always just aimed for a certain kind of artist. That takes an incredible amount of confidence.

Yes, it does. Do you ever feel like you're missing out by not aiming for kind of the low, hanging fruit of production or the music industry? I don't think I'm missing out I'm trying to think. That's a good question. I mean, I don't think

that it's a matter. I don't think you have to feel like you're missing. I just think it's interesting to be like, you know, do you ever have a FOMO when you look at other other producers? All the time. I'm sorry, my brain's moving a thousand miles per second. I feel like

Luke James, because, a really significant artist to start. I love him. Yeah. He's amazing. So that becomes the that's really sort of the coming out party of the productions for you. Yeah, it kind of was.

I would say, yeah, Luke was like the first one to really like let me do what I want sonically, I guess. Because I guess if you listen to bad news, it's not like a radio record. It was just it was just something that I really loved

you know it just moved me it wasn't um you know it's not I guess pop it was no formula to it it was just like a really just felt good wasn't a lot of tracks on it it was literally what about the other

you know the other songs that you had with them was it did you send tracks or were you actually in the room with them um we weren't in the room together for bad news we were in the room together for we did a rendition of Shade's pearls which was, that's probably my favorite Shade record. And

we just redid it together in the room. Whose idea was it to interpolate Shade? I think it was both of our idea. Like we just was like sending each other inspiration and we were just, I think it was around the time for birthday.

You're like, oh, it would be really cool if we just redid pearls. And yeah. Shade is best. She's amazing. Jenae. Yes, Janay. That, I mean, to me, you know, that's one of the more influential

artists of the last five years in, you know, so when you're on your way up and you're also working, you know, and you're, if you to have a new producer and a new artist collaborating at the same time, a lot of magic happens. I love her.

So what is, how did you get introduced to, Janelle? and what is the story behind that song? So how did I get introduced to Janais? So around like 2014, I think I took my first L.A. trip. I met two guys through referrals because I was looking for music management at the time. So I went to L.A.

Their name was our Brandon Kitchen and Bradley Beckwith. And they were really embedded in the L.A. industry scene. So I remember like my first session. Well, it wasn't a session. It was just like a link up. We were going to Big Sean. I think at the time he was working on that Chris Brown record. You remember the same? I don't remember the title.

But they literally were mixing and we were in the lobby of Sean's like studio house or whatever. And I just remember hearing them play the record. I was like, oh crap, it's, you know, what beats am I going to play for Sean? Like in my mind, I'm like, crap, what am I? because again my brain just moves a thousand miles per hour and I was expecting Sean to walk out but it was no ID who walked out and I was like oh fuck

oh I'm sorry if I'm not a supposed to curse okay cool so I'm like having like a moment because I'm like a huge fan and I have a I'm just just going crazy in my mind though I didn't say anything and so they introduced me to him and like the first thing he says It was like, what do you use? I'm like, I use Logic.

And he's like, you should get on that Ableton. I was like, all right. Literally I bought Ableton after that. But it was just, we just had a moment. And then I think, like a few days later, we just ended up in his studio and just talking and just vibing out. I played him some music. And then he was just like, at the time,

I think they were finishing like Vince Staples album. Vince Staples is awesome, by the way. Amazing. Yeah. And just met him, met at the time, met Snow Allegra. They were, you know, developing her. And then he was just like, yo, you have anything for Jene? I was like, yeah.

Like, yeah, dude. So I think he sent her my music. And literally, we didn't start creating together. I think it was like two years later. You and OID? Jene. You and Jene. So, like, she heard about me, but like we didn't start until,

we just connected and she was like yo just send me stuff I heard about you. Did you keep in touch with no ID? Oh yeah he's still I feel like he's like my uncle I still to this day like hey I mean he's an awesome guy Having people like that in the industry And having mentors is everything Yeah I definitely would say he's a mentor

He's very wise and he's just A Purist you know he's just a good person in general To outside of music like he's just a good guy, you know. Yeah. You know, that when we talk about mentorship and we talk about how you wish you knew more about publishing and talking about how you, you know, there's aspirations on the artist side and on the producer, the writer-producer side. But, you know, what's, what's always interesting for me is when there are people in the industry that are are trying to help out the next generation

and why are you helping out the next generation and why are you doing it the way you are? Give like a real extensive background on what the 7% program is and what inspires you to be an advocate if we're going to change the music industry it's going to be because we change it so we need

it, you know, we need leaders and you're a leader. So explain how you got there. Yeah, you know, just I never really had the resources or the push to get into the production space while I was coming up as, you know, a young game. And, you know, throughout my journey, I just saw a disparity, you know, women in the studios. And it's just like a divide in a sense. I don't know why we're trying to figure out why. A divide between men and women? Not a divide, but just lack of like, you know, opportunities, you know, it's just hard. Not hard, but we just weren't in the rooms.

I didn't see someone like me, you know, in the rooms all the time. Like, there's just, you know, a male-dominated space. But further into my journey, you know, talking to other girls and women, you know, they would tell me, horror stories that happened to them and, you know, I'm just like, why is this occurring? The horror stories, I'm sure it's all fronts.

Are you saying on the business side? Are you saying on the, you know, or on the personal side, or both? All fronts. Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of those stories touched me

and I'm just like, you know, we have to create something. We have to create like a home. we have to create a standard, which is why we started the 7% program, which, you know, as you know, less than 7% is the makeup of women who are producers and engineers in the industry space. So the 7 is a biblical meaning as well. Seven is like a rarity. We just like the 7. And so it started off as just right now we're just doing events and stuff, but now we're

trying to transition the conversation and actually get into building creative spaces. for women-led spaces, so hopefully 2020 things can happen. You said you don't know why, but why do you think there is a disparity? It's a lot of factors. Education, there's a socioeconomic issue as far as like, it's really expensive to get equipment, you know. Education, again, mentorship. I didn't have like a mentor, coming up when I was young and again safe spaces

so what can what can men in the music industry learn about how to help the 7% like I said I have men who are mentors great guys

you know who have met along my journey just you know more support collaborative efforts as well like willingness to be like yo you know let's bring this this awesome girl in like just that eagerness to bring us into the space more so

um just just be conscious you know do you see things changing in you know in the you know I feel like the I feel like the

creative part of the music industry was less affected by me too in a way that I wish it was more affected by it you know I feel like there was a lot of there are a lot of people who you know not that it should be about calling people out but the push for equality

in the creative industry doesn't feel like the push is coming from all angles in the way that you know what B.B. Rexa has started doing what you're doing you know there's there are a lot of women who are leading a movement and what I'm trying to figure out is why how do we get the men in the music industry

to recognize these people. programs in a productive way, in an actual way, and not just applaud it, but enact it. Yeah, yeah, it's never like anti-men, you know, again, like, I've met amazing men. I've just met you and you're really dope. But again, it just takes, just having it in their brains, like, yo, just being more proactive and wanting to get involved. With our program, you know, we're going to have more men involved, of course. You know, the reality is the girls, women have to work together and work with, be able to work with other men.

But we just want more visibility, more opportunities, you know. Yeah. When you see, what do you see the, you know, what's your outlook for how the music industry is going to look in a few years? When you, you know, we were talking outside about, you know, obviously we have no genres and that you're not a hip-hop producer. your producer you know do you think that um

both from the angle of the advocacy in the 7% and creatively how do you see the joining of genres and people in the business what's the dream scenario what is it what should sessions look like

uh it's just diversity a lot of color um no judgment just music is the the first thought, you know, music comes first. Just healthy, positive vibes in studio culture. And again, just more collaborations, but just different, unique, you know, not boxed in.

I don't like to box myself in genre-wise. Like, I want to be able to be on the Latin charts. Sure. Do you work in Latin music at all? We're working on it. One of our favorite artists is amazing. She produces most of her. stuff. Her name is Rosalia.

She's cool. She's amazing. Amazing. You like Rosalia? I mean, that's the So we have a We're fortunate, we have a pool And I sit outside and listen to pretty much like Only music, Latin music

Because I don't analyze lyrics that way You know? And you can kind of just enjoy the feel of it I mean, Joe, you know, Joe's like a multi-nominated Grammy, Latin Grammy-nominated producer here. It's amazing. It's like, there's something about the Latin music for all of us that is just so fun. Right. Her album, you can literally listen to it from start to finish without understanding anything she's saying.

Just like phonically, it's amazing. Yeah. It's a movie. Have you ever traveled to any... Spain? Sure. I mean, I was going to say any... Have you worked in any countries that...

I want to. I really want to go to London and just create out there. Or go to Jamaica and create out there. Sure. Or Nigeria, you know, work with African artists. I want to be global, you know. I mean, most of the things you can do. Sweden's really dope.

Yeah. The artist there is just like crazy. and sometimes they're so modest about it that they're really, really good writers. Yeah. You talk a lot about wanting to get involved in, you know, branding and working in brands. Yeah.

And, you know, and that is a sort of a hot button word for this generation of producers and writers. You know, the idea of branding yourself and working with brands. what do you think about your involvement in working on other brands and how that influences you working on your own? The keyword is balance

but everything that we try to do with brands we don't say yes to everything we try to ensure that everything's aligned with what we're doing and let's say we're working with a product I want to be ensure that I use that product and I actually like it like your technology.

So one thing is we try to work with brands that align with what we're doing on the track girl end. Sure. Which is key. And it's okay to say no to things as well. But yeah, it's a unique world today.

There's different ways that producers can create income and establish themselves on the brand side. like the internet's crazy. What are ways that people can create income outside of, you know, songs coming out? Yeah, so let's say, what did I do? I did music for, like, Reebok in their podcast, like music for that. That was a pretty cool thing.

Another example, I was able to do a mini, like, producer tour with Remy Martin, which is unique. It was myself, Zatovin, Boy Wanda. So that was a pretty cool look. Were you playing, was it sort of standard venues or were they Remley Martin parties? Yeah. So it was Live Nation and Remi Martin and I guess it was like venues that through Live Nation. And they were kind of like parties, but it was a producer competition. So like we judged a lot of producers in different cities.

Yeah, it was really, really cool. Do you find any producers? You're like, oh my God, that's a person's brilliant. Yeah, there was this one guy who was really, really dope. From where? Where was he from? I think Chicago. Hey.

Yeah. Oh, you're from Chicago. Well, kind of. Kind of. I say I'm from Chicago, tell my friends who've been to my place, you're not from Chicago. That's a classic, but it's true.

I'm probably closer to where Joe's from in Milwaukee than I am to Chicago. But yeah, there's, yeah, you can do music for brands. You can literally go on tours, competitions. I want to get into performing music one day, like live production sets. but it's really Why don't you? I were working on it

I just want to prepare because I'm really like a nerd when it comes to set design and stuff so that's a different How so? Like I think one of the greatest well not greatest but their set design was really cool

Kanye's floating stage was really dope one tour he had the like the Margella mass and it was like an all-white. It looked crazy. The stage was like statues and ballerinas, but it was just like a lot of theatrics.

And I'm like, oh, my God, I really want this theatrics. He was in the center of the stage playing the MPC. I want to do that. Yeah. How do you do that on a budget? I mean that, and it says that, like, that Kanye has, you know, a crazy budget. Where you're at, where you're still trying to.

I feel like. Tour with it, how do you do it? I feel like producers, the artists that they do build relationships with, like maybe ask to go on tour, or partner with whoever their agency is or however that works. Partnerships are important. So I think we can pull it off. When should our listeners expect to see you?

I don't know. 2020? 2020? Summer 2020? I really want to do like an art installation. guys. I feel like music is art. Sorry, I'm too close. Art.

I agree with that. How does how does commerce and art mix in your head? If you're creating music for art and if you're creating shows that are art,

you know, this is a challenge that the artist side of writers all deal with is wanting to have some credible music, an incredible career, but also want to be able to pay their bills. There's a way to do it.

How is that? Partnerships. Seek, you know, sponsorship, seek those brands who support you. Again, like, I'm independent, so I don't, you know, I don't have, like, that publishing deal, that big crazy publishing deal or whatever.

Why not? Because Why not do a publishing deal? No, I'm not against it. Just it's not the right time for me, I don't think. Why not do a record deal? See, Ross, you're already speaking things into fruition. It's already in my mind.

Don't worry, it might come. Okay. Okay, we're working on it. All right. Ross. Are you going to keep me posted? I'm going to keep you posted, Ross. Then let's go to the next segment.

I just feel like producers, you can create on your own terms, you know? Yeah. You don't have to sign your life away. Ross, you didn't sign your life away. You created something. Well, you guys look up Ross's story. I won't get emotional. But it's a deep story if you think about it, Ross.

I appreciate that. It feels deep to me, but it's my, I mean, I wake up every day and have to, you know, look in the mirror. I mean, look, the thing with being, you know, the signing your life away, it's also relative if that person helps you achieve your actual goal, whatever that is. Yeah, I'm not saying it's a negative thing. I've just seen and saw, like, and heard just these horror stories of my producer, friends, you know, literally siding their lives away and not seeing a return, you know, being locked in and not, you know, that music never comes out, you know, that's the part

that I don't, you know, want to be involved in. A publishing, I just want, a deal should just be right. It just should just feel right. And if it's going to be a stepping zone, I think it's awesome. But, you know, that wasn't a route that, you know, I took, you know what I'm saying? I'm not against any type of deal. If it's right for you, it's right. for you. It just wasn't right for me at the time. Sure. Well, the good thing about publishing deals is that they can

keep coming throughout your whole career. Yeah, no, no. You get new offers, different offers. Different companies mean different things. It's just a unique time. You know? How so? You have a lot of, like, a lot of, like,

I guess, boutique labels now taking, not taking more control, but like, creatively, I guess the perception is that they're independent. Like the independent artist is like ideal, I guess. Like AWOL or CoBEL, human resources. A lot of these smaller guys are really like the demand these days. A lot of artists are doing partnerships, you know, distribution deals

versus signing, you know, entire year terms and stuff like that. They're doing by projects and stuff. But it takes, you know, what people don't realize if they haven't researched you at all is that it takes an entrepreneur to make that work. Yes. You can do a deal with a distributor. You can get your music. 40,000 songs are uploaded a day. It's hot.

Right now. Is that what it is? Or is it per week? But whatever it is, I think it's a day. Spotify's 40,000 songs per day. day that even if you're releasing music from a major, you know, maybe that gets you on certain playlist, but if you're not hustling, it just goes away. It doesn't matter if you're on a major or an independent or anything. If you're not an entrepreneur, this isn't the right

industry for you. And I think a lot of people expect that if you're an artist, someone along the way is going to do it for you. And say, no, no, no, no. You don't understand. All the artists you know are hustling the whole way. They are. Not just on stage, not just in the studio. They are that all that branding that you're talking about, all the partnerships are led because

these, you know, these artists are savvy. Not because not because someone's doing it for them. No, not at all. If you, you can sign to an AWOL as as long as

you're signing to a, AWOL. You know, it's really hard for people to just, otherwise, you know, there's tune core, you can release, anyone can release music right now. But not anyone can release music and have anyone hear it. You have to be, the grind doesn't stop. You know, you definitely, I like how you said you have to have that entrepreneurial mindset because, you know, it is your career. And, you know, that's the mindset that I've always had, you know, coming up. I did it myself. You know, I learned, you know, self-taught. And I feel like you still have to use your voice. You still, you know, you have to be strategic, but ultimately it's about your career. And I think, you know, we've been kind of, well, we're thriving. Not thriving.

That's not a good word. We're doing well, I think. I think we're doing really well with what. What would thriving mean? We're just creating on our own terms, you know, just doing things that people might not, you you know, don't see for a producer. So like... Is it your marketing background from college that helps with that?

Probably. And because I just have crazy ideas. And like I have a great partner in crime who logistically structures my crazy ideas and make it work and make it come to life. But I just feel like I'm just an overall creative, you know? And it's just so much you can do in life. But you have to be patient too. And it's not easy. There's been very dark and little times, you know.

So I just have to just push up. How excited is your family with the achievements you've had? I hope they're excited. I mean, it's a huge thing to go from I'm making music in my room at 15 to, you know, living in New York and doing big brand tours and stuff like that. I think they're proud of me. I think so I think my family is proud of me

Are you proud of you? Oof This is like therapy I just feel like I'm still It's just the beginning And there's so much to do So much I want to do

I guess I do have to take a step back And be like Oh This is amazing I would say I'm proud of me But I just have a lot to do That's just the I'm just being hard on myself

You know, I'm blessed, though, for sure. I'm thankful for everything. I just so much I want to do. Yeah. Yeah. So much I have to learn, too. Yeah. What do you think you have to learn next?

Well, I just feel, you know, I'm a student to the game, you know. I'm teaching myself some earth-winning fire songs this winter on the piano. There you go. I'm getting back into theory, writing sheet music. Yeah. It's good. Yeah. When people talk about math and music, they don't realize that, no, literally, if you learn sheet music, it becomes a whole lot more clear.

Yes. And people talk about composition that when you talk about the numbers and you talk about the song math or whatever, it sounds not tangible. So if you can read music, then it's so clear what all that means. So, you know. Yeah, I really want to get into film scoring one day. So I feel like enhancing that skill of theory and just learning about that world, I think, will be beneficial. Even if it takes me years and years and years. Yeah.

Let's do a five-for-five thing. All right? This is a new segment. I'm going to list five people or things. You're just going to just tell me what comes to stuff. Oh, crap. Janay Aiko Vibes

I like that Luke James Beautiful voice I was going to say beautiful man I mean you can say that too Luke you're a beautiful man I love you No ID

Sense Harlem Uptown And Ashley best friend oh she's just she's just she's weeping over the end of corner

she's weeping um well thank you for doing this Ross you're amazing I mean you need your flowers what you need your flowers that's sweet

I'm being serious you and Joe Joe you over here laughing it's the truth you know but like what look You need to be more sweet, Joe.

Me? Yes. To your friend. Yeah, Joe. Be more sweet to me, man. Give them as flowers. I'm vulnerable. I need flowers.

But thank you for doing this. We were saying this before, during, and now at the end, that it's so important for us to show attainability to the next generation. For sure. and

we already know what it's like to see someone go from nothing to being a writer we've heard that story that happens a lot it's not to say that's not difficult it's just it's a story that we can all research it's been happening since

you know the 40s really since 1909 you know since Irving Berlin so the story of the songwriter who's become successful, that's one thing. But in 2020, the story is

first of all, the first question is what is the songwriter? And the idea of going from you know, the bottom to the top means something different now than it's ever meant. Certainly in the music business. Yeah. because there isn't one path anymore.

There's no record stores and radio is not singular. It's not the same. So it's not to say you can't make a lot of money and you shouldn't aim for those things if you want to aim for those things. But like you're saying, if music is art, there's still ways to make a living being a musician. And there's a way to do it regardless of your gender or race or where you come from, But more importantly, you know, the most important part of this conversation, I really feel like is not about us in this room, but it is about, you know, how do we as a community embrace people who wouldn't otherwise be part of this community? Because the talent is there, but maybe the education and the resources aren't.

and so for you to help provide that to people who are, you know, younger than you or less experienced, they may be older than you, but don't have access. But, you know, first thing that we talked about is being ageless, having no genre. And it's because you're leading the conversation amongst your peers and in this industry about, you know, how do we, as an industry actually grow without it being about charts or being about things that isn't really why any of us got into music to begin with. It's not to say we shouldn't aim for charts. I get that as a success marker and I love the business but the business is bigger than what we think it is and sometimes we need people to remind us that

and you're one of those people. So thank you for doing it. Ross, that was amazing. There you go. My heartstrings. Thank you so much, Ross. Well, thank you for doing this. Oh, you're awesome.

Thank you. Thanks for listening to this episode of Anne the Writer is. If you want to hear music from this songwriter I just interviewed, be sure to check out our Spotify playlist, or visit our website and Amazon. the writer is.com. If you like what we're doing, please subscribe to us. You can also like us on Facebook and Twitter.

And The Writer Is is produced by Joe London, edited by Miles Bergsmah, and published by Big Deal Music. A special thanks to David Silberstein from Mega House Music and Michael White. Until next time, this is Ross Golden.