And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan - Ep. 96: Terrace Martin

Episode Date: September 7, 2020

He is one of the most versatile and freely collaborative artists of his generation. Renowned as being one of the top jazz musicians in the world, this three-time GRAMMY-nominated artist, producer, and multi-instrumentalist has become a creative engine at the epicenter of LA's progressive hip-hop scene. His noteworthy production has included major collaborations with Kendrick Lamar (‘good kid, M.A.A.D. city’ and the GRAMMY-winning ‘To Pimp a Butterfly’), Travis Scott, Stevie Wonder, Snoop Dogg, Herbie Hancock, Leon Bridges, and many other influential artists. His versatility as a musician and producer has led his path in parallel with the greats including Quincy Jones and Dr. Dre, while also launching his vibrant, progressive, genre-crossing record label, Sounds of Crenshaw. This year he collaborated with Kamasi Washington, Robert Glasper, and 9th Wonder on the supergroup album project, ‘Dinner Party’ which features guest vocals from Phoelix. As the name lends, Dinner Party is an authentic connection and camaraderie. Years of friendship, shows, dinners, conversations, laughs, and life experiences, all converging into one moment. And most recently, his new album 'DRONES' takes him from being a ’secret weapon’ within the industry and renowned in the jazz world, to a household name on a mainstream level. Featuring contributions from friends and frequent collaborators, the record is a career in the making. Stepping out from behind the boards of so many iconic records and into the spotlight, he has created a classic of his own. And The Writer Is…Terrace Martin!Art: Michael Richey White Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey guys, welcome to Ann the writer is. I'm your host, Ross Golan. I've written with hundreds of artists and writers over the years, and my favorite part of each session is the first hour when we catch up about life, the industry, politics, composition, whatever. So this is a journey of learning why people write songs, how people write songs, and most importantly, who the people are who write the songs.

I'm producing this with the Great Joe London, big deal music publishing, and mega house music management. If you want to listen to the songs we discuss in this podcast, follow us on our socials, find out about special live events, or buy that merch, aka that hat I always wear. Go to our website www. And The Writer is.com. For a little bit of context,

we just wanted you to know that a lot of these were recorded before quarantine. And as we know, a lot has changed in 2020. So again, please stay safe out there. and enjoy the new episodes of And The Writer Is. Welcome to And The Writer is. I am your host, Ross Golan. Today's three-time Grammy-nominated multi-platinum producers is one of those legit composers with an instrumentalist prowess

that reaches far beyond the mainstream. The depth of his tasteful musicianship magnifies the records he writes and produces in a way few jazz musicians have. That explains why his credits put his name along with the likes of Travis Scott, Stevie Wonder, Snoop Dog, Herbie Hancock, Lala Hathaway, Leon Bridges, etc, etc, etc. In fact, his contributions helped define the career of longtime collaborator Kendrick Lamar. Oh, and we haven't even mentioned his own critically acclaimed projects. From his distant hometown of Los Angeles, California,

this guy started producing records at 13 years old. Damn! And the writer is my new friend, Terris Martin. Hey, hey, hey, hey, what's up? Hello. Hey, that's a nice thing to roles back there, man. Oh, yeah. It's a 1972...

Oh, yeah. Like, classic roads. So I'm sure that if you come and play it, it'll sound better than when I play it. Yeah. I have a feeling knowing, like, we'll get into your childhood, but my assumption is that your studio is loaded with vintage instruments. I got, I'm on this big-ass computer right now. Let me see if I can't turn the screen.

You know what, I can't, but I have a, I have a lot of, like, right in front of me where I'm looking at you, but I'm looking at a wall of like, Fender Rose, Mini Moog, Arb Odyssey, Profit, Vogue, Vogue, Vododew, wall of saxophones. So sick. And water. And natural spying bottles of water. Perfect.

Gotta say hydrated. Papers around. When I saw, I was going to say that, you know, this guy started producing records at 13 years old, which is also when I coincidentally was having my bar mitzvah.

So like, clearly, clearly like my, my childhood is not the exact same as your childhood. Yeah. You know, uh,

it might, My parents were not musicians and yours were. And so I kind of want to start from the beginning, man. You're from L.A. So tell me, tell me how your childhood is. I'm from L.A. You know, I was a little kid like in the 80s in South Central Los Angeles, Inglewood, that whole area.

And I grew up at a time when like it was a lot of musicians that lived in our community and it was a lot of clubs so musicians could play. So being a musician was, I mean, as far as the business and the job part of it, back in the 70s and the 80s and everything, like, you know, and I mean, the 60s and way before I was born, but in the 80s, I remember every musician that we knew had a gig

at like five nights a week playing here, four nights a week, Like a musician could actually in Los Angeles just do that and feed his family and have a nice three bedroom, two bathroom, 1600 square foot house, nice backyard and take care of the whole family, you know, at one point. And I would say so many musicians, man, was doing was doing so well. And then, you know, as music started changing live instrumentation, start going out, the drum machine start coming in. it, you know, a lot of different things, keyboards and different things like that. So my father is a musician and my mother. So I was part of one of those households that had working parents that was working musicians.

But then I also remember when music changed, as music got more, as hip hop got more strong and R&B got more strong, those things. A lot of the live music things start fading out. And cable TV was a big deal too because cable started having pay-per-view where people in the early 80s and the mid-80s start. stop even going out to even hear people play. Because, like, I mean, like, you could go see anybody on television at that time. Or, you know, it just wasn't as many things going on. And as music, hip hop and R&B and different other things got popular, more like sequence music and music that's based on computers and everything like that.

The live musician thing started to fade in that late. And as that was starting to fade, then you see a thing of all these musicians that could take care of themselves with just music. They started getting day jobs and playing at night. So then you saw that a lot in LA. And then you saw when, when, you know, like for me personally in South Central LA, like one of the biggest dips after the day jobs and the musicians. And then it's like crack cocaine hit real bad. And then that just wiped. And that just, that was like an atomic bomb like in the ghetto.

It just wiped out so many motherfucking families and so many women and so many men. It was literally like, like, like it was literally like a bomb that dropped in all. All ghettos around the world, I'm sure, but if we're talking about me, we're talking about South Central Los Angeles and those areas of Los Angeles, it was like a bomb, and people just couldn't,

it was hard to take care of yourself, man, with that horrible demon on your back. And a lot of people was affected by that. So mixed with that, the black music community and all these other things, and then it was damn near, it wasn't totally wiped out,

but it was like, it was like, like, like, it was like the fucking walking dead to me. When I think back, now. It was like the walking dead. I mean, you grew up in the 80s, so this is right in childhood. I was like, I vividly remember these memories between four

and 11 years old are like these very clear of everybody smiling and everybody smiling kind of everybody smiled, then crack gang banging, all that shit started, you know, but really the dope came in and fucked up

the, the dope and the different level of guns. Everybody had guns in the 80s, but the different level of guns with different money. That's when you start getting like the 9mm and you start getting assault rifles in these communities. So this shit started being like a war zone, crack cocaine, all this shit. But even through this, when that was going crazy, certain people was rising to the top with their music.

And I was a young kid hearing this shit like Teddy Riley with the soundtrack to that era. And then you had Dr. Dre with in W.A. And that whole movement. So those two things was like the soundtrack. to what at one point was like for me and I'm for a lot of people, you know, like one of the darkest ages in Los Angeles history is the crack here, period. How did, you know, your dad's a jazz drummer,

and like you were saying, he had to, I'm sure, like, all instrumental is having to adjust to the electronic part of it, but also to add in all the, you know, like you're saying, to this drug bomb that happens. How did his direct community deal with? Like, how did he, was he part of a trio? Was he part of a? He was, he was, he was, he is a lot of sessions, a lot of jazz gigs around town, a lot of

different groups. But how it affected them is, I mean, you got to think, I mean, like, you know, like you got this whole pandemic thing going on. Like, this is the first time we, we've all seen. this. It's the first time. So that's why you have motherfuckers buying up on a toilet paper. You know what I'm saying? You have a motherfucker. I'm guilty.

I was buying up so much shit waters. I bought up so much. I'm still drinking the water. And it wasn't about greed. It was about, yo, let me just get everything that me and my family need to tuck away. Because I'm saying, this shit is real. So fuck that. I'm getting mine. You know what I'm saying? Make sure everybody tucked away. And I got enough shit

to wait. My community was cool. My mom's pops. So they ordered. I didn't want them to have to drive. So So anyway, I'm saying I'm saying I have the first thing you or I have ever, ever seen this. So imagine this. Imagine all your life. You've been practicing and playing your ass off. You've been, now you got to this point of playing where your music is going.

You could do it for a living. You finally did it like the heroes. Your heroes are Miles Davis and John Coltrane and part everybody that's just doing it at a high level. You know, even the funk guy, you know, Rick James and Bobby Walt. I mean, your heroes are moving around and all of a sudden you get to this level. you come to Los Angeles, everything is moving. And then the crack, I mean, then crack happens. Yeah.

And then, but the reason why a lot of people had turned the drugs, I believe while a lot of my family and community turned the drugs is because after all the gigs dried up and no place to play in Los Angeles are, you know, it was, as an artist, that's torture. That's torture to not get, you know, an artistic hug or to even not get a hand clap. If you do well or bad, that's just torture. to not be able to communicate when you're on earth to do such a

spiritual community thing. So, you know, the only way, it's like a bad relationship with a man or a woman or anything, whatever people choose these days. It's kind of like, you know, a lot of us getting to these horrible relationships with other people because we're feeling down at a time.

We are feeling hurt. We're like an open wound and anything could get in. And we're like a, we're so fucking sad that any hug will feel good at this point. any hug and crack was able to provide that hug to a lot of brothers and sisters at that song because it was a fucked up thing. So that turned into, you feel me, that's a real thing. So long story short, I'm a product of that, first of all.

And, you know, when hip hop and computers, everything started getting popular, I used to hear a lot of older musicians saying, man, they're not hiring us no more. It's kind of interesting. It's like some of the things that did a fair share in dissolving live music, are also the main entities and main ingredients that help build me. I was like, you know, that's why I always try to play on my records.

You know, my dear friend and my brother Craig Brockman always taught me as a record producer. Every time you play a different instrument on the record, it supplies a job for a group of musicians, especially if it's a hit motherfucker record. It's a hit record. If it's a hit record, I'm playing jazzy chords. That means it's the new shit.

Everybody could work. Saxophone, everybody could work. baselines. Everybody could work. So, you know, I never forget that time in LA when it was really dark. So I keep that in my head with everything I do. That's why I use so much instrumentation because I really want to keep the musicians inspired and employed, you know. I wish everyone, I hope people are listening to this actually pay attention to what you just said, which is that part of your job as a producer and as an A&R person and whatnot is to recognize that you are employing families and you are giving opportunities to people and that that's why you know paying union

fees and not complaining about it and that's why making sure people get credit where credits do and open that that matters and I think a lot of times people get really cheap about it or they they complain about well this is you know you don't need that too and you don't know you don't understand this is how we get health insurance or this is how they get you know whatever how they can have their kids go to school or whatever it is. It's like it's it has a real tangible difference in musicians families. I think a lot of times people don't recognize what you just said. Well, you know what? I don't I don't want to give the excuses no more for people not recognizing. I think people, a lot of people just don't care, especially in this business.

You know, the musician is always the first call but the last to be treated well, you know, anything. You know, I've, I took amongst myself years ago to stop going on tour with different. people. The only people I do tours with now is Herbie Hancock, and me and Robert Glass were having things going on. And I do tours with people that treat me like a human. You know, I don't, I'm never really, you know, I just, I just had to take a step back. But I had to take, I had just to take a step back, not for me, you know, I just felt like I could help my community. I was always hooking up everybody with gigs. I was always plugging up everybody with Snoop Dog, everybody with Kendrick, everybody with, I was always, I was always

the connector with everybody, putting everybody with everybody, but it was no business to it. It was just hooking up everybody. And then everybody go with everybody, then I get, you know, some, thanks, Terry, for help me out. Then I get, man, I wish you never would have called me for that because I never got paid. So I got all these things. So what I started to say is I got to put some in the shit in order. But for me to put it in order, I got to step back from the tour world, from all that stuff. And you know what?

let me get more cracking as a composer and a record producer that way. Before I talk shit and try to change shit, let me become part. Let me see what's going on up there. Let me become part of that weird-ass infrastructure that treats artists so motherfucking weird. Let me actually become part

and just see what they think. And I realize, I realize it's two things, brother. A lot of them, like you say, don't realize it. But most of them don't give a fuck. You know. Real. And literally, I mean, this is the problem for songwriters the whole time. It's hard to explain that.

No, you don't understand. The whole industry falls if you get rid of songwriters. Yeah, yeah. The whole industry goes away if you get rid of instrumentalists. Like, it literally is false because there's no, there's no music. You know, the Recording Academy when, you know, they're pretty notorious about not giving credit to instrumentalists. There's no Grammys for instrumentalists. They're really, you know, very few for songwriters.

And a lot of them viewed as, well, we're the Recording Academy, and I just want to see them put a microphone in the middle of a room with no music. And then they should record that, and then they should give awards to that. But if you're going to have music or songs being played, and that's what you're giving the awards for, give credit a little bit to the people who, you know, if you're a key grip, I think you might even get an Emmy for a show that wins an Emmy. I mean, it's like, why would you, you know, I just think that the idea that you wouldn't give a sax player a Grammy for playing on a record is insanely myopic. It's so small.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I, well, that's also why on most of the records I play saxon, I'm always a featured artist. I don't fuck around. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, no, I mean, that's the smartest. Yeah. And I do that and I do that because I learned to do that.

First of all, I tell somebody wanted me to play on a record the other day. And I said, man, you don't even want me to play on a record. I'm going to charge you a lot. I can't play horn parts. I got a solo. I got to get so many X amount of points. I got to get, I'm starting off the top with 20% publishing from a solo. So it's like, bro, you may not want to fuck with me for it.

And I tell artists because it is my thing. And you're right. But I also believe we have the power. And if we more of us speak up about these things and say, no, I will not do that record unless I get that. And then if the other guy says it too, see, the motherfucking problem is, because I've tried to round up a gang of motherfuckers for this. You try to get all the artists and musicians to stand on one thing. And it's always one, three, or four or five other motherfuckers that's new in town that will come up and say, I'll do it for anything. And then they fuck up the whole thing.

And then when we talk about these conversations, we can't go make valid points because the thirsty motherfuckers that's really fucking enough for themselves is fucking enough for the whole thing by keep saying yes, this is why to this day, I don't go on the road.

I don't do certain records. Like, if you're not going to pay me my rate and what I want, it's not a problem. I'd rather train my dogs and practice on the saxophone and piano. I don't want to deal with it. You know, there's a difference. There are a lot of people who are

who would, ask for that 20% and those points and that credit who don't nearly put the kind of stamp on songs that you're, when you're doing that, you're putting your heart into it. I need the records that you're featured on. And those are not, you're not just like in the background being like playing just a, like some dainty, like, sax part. You're like, you make it into a thing, you know? And let me, let me be clear about this. You know, when I say that, I'm not really saying 20%, What I'm saying is that I demand, I don't ask for shit.

I demand, if I play a saxophone solo, I demand ownership of that song because I'm part of the composition. It's only fair. It's only fair. It's only fair, you know. But anyway, long story. So all that plays into why I feel like I do records and I put so much musicians on the records because I want to make sure that that shit just stays in front of me because I was affected by people not doing that. I don't understand, as a young kid. Why did you choose saxophone over drums when, you know,

I know a lot of producers who are great drummers first. I know a lot of producers who are, you know, good guitarist first. I know even a lot of trumpet players. We know a bunch of trumpet players who are amazing arrangers. I feel like there's, you know, there are a limited amount of sax players that have been able to cross over. Was it Coltrane? Who was it?

Who was it who was like, I'm going to be a sax player? It was a beautiful woman in Spanish Harlem. When I first, when I went to go here, my dad play at a gig one night, she asked me, now, do you play an instrument like your father? At the time, I was like, nah, and she'd been down and told me, if you do, you should play the saxophone. I was young, and I was just getting into girls a whole lot. She was, I said, why?

She said, because you could make love to your woman without touching her. You just got to play the horn her for it. And I got really excited, and I was like, I'm going to play the fucking saxophone. I started playing a saxophone, but I fell in love with everything. That was my, that was one of the main intros to it because I was just so fascinated

how this instrument affected this woman. You know what I'm saying? You know, and I, you know, what kind of saxophone is your saxophone? Like if you're, if I'm going to say, hey, you want to play sax on something, is it, you know,

are you a tenor sacks? Oh, Alto. Oh, so sacks. Alto. I mean, I own all of them if, you know, but I rather just play outso. That's my voice. Sure.

What brought you, like, when was the moment that you're like, okay, I'm going to start actually thinking of it as writing songs and thinking of it as producing records? There's a difference between, you know, I'm going to play on records and I'm going to start playing with all these people. And like you were saying, you stopped touring at one point. You're like, oh, I can produce records. What's the switch to being like, I'm now going to get.

into produce, actually making the song. Yeah, I made a commitment to really produce and really write songs, you know, like 16, 17s. I'm from L.A. and my heroes was always Battle Cat and DJ Quick and Dr. Dr. Dr. Drain. So I was the way, I was more intrigued with that before jazz. You know what I'm saying? So I was more of a fan of that way before the saxophone or anything. So I was more edging than going to that world messing with drum machines in 50

grade and, you know, samplers in sixth grade. Then I got, then my mom bought my first sampling drum machine, my EPS, my, at seventh grade, I think. So I was always chopping up samples. I was Tribe called Quest fan and everything. So, you know, that, that was always in it. I never looked at it like separate. I always looked at it like, I got to do everything I can.

But I just, but I knew if I was going to do everything, I wanted to do the realest shit of everything. I didn't want to do none of the kind of everything. wanted to do. If we're going to do, if I'm going to play death metal, I want to play it with the most gruesome motherfuckers that believe in death metal. If I'm playing blues, I want to go play it with the soul force motherfuckers from Mississippi that's playing the fuck out the blues. If I'm playing jazz, I want to play that with Herbie Hancock. If I'm doing gangster shit, I want to fuck with Snoop. You feel me? If I'm doing other gang shit, YG, if I'm doing all around everything, I'm going to

get with Kendrick. So it's like, I always want to, you know, just whatever. is the, what I believe to be, and this is my opinion, this is not law. If I believe it to be the highest level of that thing, then that's, and the more I don't know about it is the more I want to dive into it. Of course. You know, so the more I think of a situation that I'm going to be uncomfortable and be the odd guy out of the group is the more I want to dive into that. Why do you do that?

Because I like, I'm addicted to challenges. because I'm addicted to breakthroughs, because my whole life has been none but challenged, and the breakthroughs have been so amazing. Like, I'm addicted to challenges. Like, I welcome challenges. Just like we're talking about this record business, man, you know, the flip side to me doing all this with musicians

and being a product of this, I actually love the bad with the good. I love it all. I take it all in because you can't decipher what's what, without understanding both ends of the stick. So, you know, it's just like I never step. It's all one. Everything is one.

when we because we're about the same age like there there was this period in when you're talking about tribe and whatnot through the you know mid like there was a that black star and to live and all these guys who are really using real instrumentation common all these guys that are using real instruments and it felt like that went away and then started coming back partly because of the records you're a part of. Why do you think it went away? Or did it not go away and it just wasn't like, it just wasn't getting the, you know, the press and all the stuff? Because there was a movement, right? Am I, or am I missing? No, no, no, no.

It's like it's all of that. Basically, it didn't go away. It wasn't as prevalent. It wasn't as there, but it didn't go away. And people always was using musicians on records. but a lot of people wouldn't give credit or when they give credit to the person that played the instrument, they would be just like,

it wouldn't cool to like, it was kind of weird. I felt like a lot of people, in general, a lot of people think it's cool to get all the credit, to take all the credit, to make sure I did everything. And usually the motherfuckers that said they did everything ain't done a motherfucking thing. I've learned in the studio, you know what I'm saying?

The most successful people are people to understand group effort and together. and the biggest ego in the room is the music. But I think... Jazz, like, when you're in a jazz band growing up or you're in a whatever combo or whatever your trio is or whatever it is, you learn really quick how important the other players are

and your whole job is to make them shine. That's the whole... It's a sport, and we just don't have that in... Yeah. There's such an ego in the, like, popular music sort of world. in the commercial world, there's such an ego attached to,

I did it all even when you didn't. Versus in a jazz band, you're like, check out this guy solo that you're about to hear. And then everybody sits back and just kind of tries to emphasize, you know? It's so different in the other world,

but I mean, for me, I'm me. I don't change. I'm going to keep my same shit everywhere I go, because that's just the truth, though. The truth, life is about helping somebody out. Life is about giving your all. so that person could be their all and that person giving their all

so the other person could be their all and it's supposed to be a train effect with life. You know, the same thing with music and art and everything. So it's, you know, it's supposed to be a train effect. But for me, man, I always maintain who the fuck I am. Like, nah, I'm going to get with my crew. We all understand giving. And I benefit so much more

of working with people than working alone. I don't even have a desire to work alone, ever. life. You know, just going through a little bit of your discography. And obviously, you know, I think, you know, you went to Cal Arts and then you left Cal Arts to go on tour. And, like, you've had this, you know, you've clearly studied music to, as far as you can study music in the U.S. in a structural sense.

And then you go and you're doing, you know, playing with some of the biggest artists of all time. but how do you get involved in Snoop like when you start working with him it's like it feels like that's the real shift in being you know and you know you've been doing your own music on the side releasing albums

from not cracking from not cracking to cracking that's what Snoop did I mean like it's like a serious and then it's non-stop like I don't think you have a break from for the last 12 years you know how does how do you go from, yeah, how do you go from zero to 100?

Or it seems like you just switch paths. Who invited you in? How did this happen? Snoop? Man, man, my brother is a guitarist named Marlon, Marlon Williams. He's like, he's on all of our records from the West Coast from like 1995 till yesterday. Marlon Williams, all the Kendrick shit, YG shit, Snoop shit, Quincy. I mean, it's, anyway.

So, you know, at one point when I was like 17, I moved in with him. And he was already working with Snoop since 96. He lived all Crenshaw. But we was also playing like in local churches and different gospel things together. So I was always with Marlin. I always said, man, first of all, I prayed to work with Snoop Dogg, Dr. Dre. I prayed to work at 12, 13 years. I was doing beats for then when I was 13 in my head.

I was already like, I tell everybody, I was built. I was built to work with. dog. Like he helped design me. So but going back to him, so one day, man, I never will forget I was on tour. I was on tour with God's property, a gospel group. And when I was

in Minneapolis in the wintertime, and I was walking down the street. I didn't have no money. I was just walking down the street and I need to make some more motherfucking money, man. I'm sick of playing this music being broke. This shit does not fly. I can't get no Jordans. I can't need a new car.

You feel me? I'm just not. I need some motherfucking money. This shit is weird. And I was like, man, I wish Snoop a car, like, Marlins. I need a push. And I said that shit. And I looked at my chip phone. Chip phone is an illegal phone.

We used to get these chip phones, the burnout phones. You go to the phone men, he paid a bill for six weeks, and then you got to go give another $100 for another phone. So I looked at my chip phone. And I thought it was the last day, the chip, last two days, the chip didn't work. My phone hadn't rained in two days. You know, and it was more than morning today.

Slew Doggly did a saxophone player for a TV show. I said, man, put me on. He was like, yeah, cool. Rehearsals are tomorrow. I said, tomorrow. He said, yeah, I got to go. Click. I called my mom.

I borrowed $400 bucks. I hop on the plane. I got to L.A. And I was just, I was, I was in the band. I was playing sax in the band. But the whole time in the band, I had a back pocket of beats. And I was just waiting for my opportunity to play him something to beat. But that opportunity took about two years, though.

No, no, about a year. Because first I was working with Superfly first. It took about, and then one day he just asked, man, anybody got some new beats? And he couldn't even get out. Anybody got some new before I was like, bam, I had the CD right here. And I said, dog, man, I've been working on. You're holding this thing. You're like sleeping with it.

Yeah. Dinner with it. Watch this. At this point, I was making like 50 beats a week. So every week I would have at least 20 beats on the CD. 20 new beats, 20 new beats, 20 new beats. I would just do beats all day, beats and practice on the horn all day. Beats, beats, beats, beats. And then when I finally got to him, you know, I was ready.

And he ended up rapping, like, on most of those records after that. I just started moving in with him. And then we just started fucking with each other, man. We got real close. We are real close, you know. And he took me from a boy to it. a man. He taught me a lot of music things, but more than music things, man things. He taught me how to be a better father, a more upstanding person, an honest person, an on-time person, a person about his

business, 100% about his business. Like, we could be friends, we could be lovers, we could be everything. But the minute of signatures up here on our agreement is 100% business and nothing's person. So that's what Snoop Dogg taught me. So that's why after him, I was able to grow and do so much because I had these tools. He gave me a tool bag before he sent me off on that field and that tool bag. It was a tool bag of a roller decks of relationships because he put me with Quincy. He put me with everybody and some tools. And he said, you graduated from the Snoop Dog School. Let's see what you got. And he threw me out there like parents. And, you know, I just, I always made sure I came back to him. I was with him all day yesterday. It's not a week go by. I'm not with him, no. So we talk every day.

So, you know. Let me know when you need a third wheel. I mean, you're going to, I'm going to hang with you guys. I don't know. You might faint fucking with us. You might faint, man. It's a lot of, it's a lot. Well, now because of the quarantine, we've got to smoke 12 feet away and we got to have our own, but we make sure we got four and five of our own and we just partake and have a great old time. That's how you do it. All right. So you meet, when you meet Quincy, is he, did you already know Herbie Hancock at that point? Or like, did Quincy introduce you to, like, Quincy's like the godfather, right? Like, I don't think people. He's the top, right?

Of the music world, there's Quincy and then there's everybody else. So if he knows who you are, then he can place you in different places. Well, you know, with Quincy, me and his relationship was, A, a lot of music. I produced a lot on his last record, Quincy's last record. I'm always doing stuff with him. So Snoop, Snoop put me with Quincy because we was working on a project, Clark Terry, which is a great jazz trumpeter. He was Miles Davis teacher.

teacher, friends with Disney. He was actually the first black musician on television as far as being in a band on NBC in New York. So Clark Terry was Quincy's teacher and Quincy wanted to do something special. It's emerging hip-hop and jazz back then. And Snoop was like, hey, I got my young soldier. He'd been in training. I got somebody I need you to meet.

And we went up to Quincy's house and he said, hey, just tears. And that was like 15 years ago. And it's just been on every sense. I got with Herbie. I had been here, after I did to Pimp a Butterfly, I had been hearing rumors that Herbie Hancock was looking for me. And I tell him, what a crazy rumor. Like, that's not actually happening.

Yeah, like, man, I don't have to shut the fuck up. And then one day, my friend Keon Herald called me. He's like, hey, I just heard, I'm in, I think Korea at a festival. And I just heard Herbie mention your name. That just heard Herbie Hancock. And I was like, ah. The next day, Robert Glassford called me, said, hey, Herbie wants you to work with you. He wants to meet you.

He wants to meet up with him. I'm like, yeah, yeah. So they called me about three weeks later. I was waiting by that motherfucking phone for three weeks. They called me three weeks later. And they was in Capitol Studios. And when I walked in, it was Herbie, Wayne Shorter, Robert. It was all the cats.

And her, he was like, tears. And he had all my music. And we just hit it off. And I've just been over there every day since then working on this album. amazing album, doing, doing music, like touching different areas. I've never touched him, too. We're just being very explored,

doing things that me or him haven't done. We've done signs of these things separately, but, you know, it's interesting, like working with your master teacher. I was going to say, how did your, you know, how do your parents view at this point, you know, if you're working with Herbie and you grew up with a jazz drummer as a dad, how does... Oh, he's proud.

I mean, that, like, that must be. You can beat that. That's the top jazz player in the world right now, you know. That's my first set of training is my father. So my father's looking at his one and only student graduate his school. So that's, I'm sure that makes him feel proud. You know what I'm saying. That's beautiful.

How do you meet Kendrick Lamar? That's, you know, 2011 is when you first have your first releases with him. How do you guys get that long? ago. We was we was we was we was tired way earlier than that though, way earlier than that when he was in the high school. I met Kendry I was on house arrest for like four months in LA. I was on house arrest and my own boy had a private at a private business so the rules of house arrest was you got to call the day before if you want to go out the next day but you can only go to work and you got to get signed out by your

boss. So my home He had some little private business. So he saw I stayed going. He signed out for me. He was like, I'm going to sign out for you, man. I need to bring you by a studio, man. Can meet these brothers from Watts, you know, you know, over there.

So I went over there and it was Top Dogg and Jay Rock. And then he introduced me to him. That first night, I did a beat that first night. Like, man, I did a beat though. That might have been 2006, 2007, something like that. You know what I'm saying? But then after that, I just stayed over there. I was on house arrest.

I was over there every day doing beats and having him sign off for me. I just did a gang of records and we just bonded and we just was tired every sense, you know. When he gets, you know, I feel like Mad City's like the first time he becomes, you know, like a household name amongst them in the music industry. And there's one thing when you work with classic guys

like Snoop and with Herbie, and some of these names where, you know, it's an honor to work with those kinds of musicians, but it's a different thing when you're part of an artist becoming well-known, like watching that journey with them and being part of that journey. How did it feel and what was it like to be part of starting to see a star rise? Unbelievable. I've never seen nothing like that in my life so close.

It was like watering. It's like I have been watering all these plants for you. years and none of them grew. And then are they well growing, one would die, or they would grow, you know, and, you know, I'm doing metaphors, you know, are they, they would grow or just something, you know, but when, when I was, being with Kendrick was when I really, really tapped into releasing ego and, and, building, building, almost like the Voltron concept, like looking at everybody in the room, You know, like Voltron, you know, where somebody's the leg, somebody's the left leg, right leg, right on the torso.

But even with more components, you know, not more, you know, not, I love Thundercats. You know, I love, I love Stephen, Thundercat. I love Thundercat. But even Thundercats, everybody had an individual ego. Everybody was their own thing. Voltron, they wasn't shit until they came together. They would always get fucked up until they were Voltron. You know, and I think that represents life. You know, I think when you come together, you're just indestructible.

You're stronger. And it's something about us when we all together. It's just everything goes the right way. And we don't do it for hit records for a single. We do it for a feeling. And I think once you stop doing it for that feelings when everything's irrelevant, and that actual is 100% feeling. I love that.

After, you know, he starts to break, you work with YG kind of early on for him too. And that's, do you start to have expectations that what you work on has a certain level of success? No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. I was already around Quincy and all these cats for years. So I've already been prepared to like, you know, I don't expect the same thing twice. I have new expectations every time, you know. My only expectations is for a feeling all the time. I'm like, let's just get a good feeling.

That's the only consistent thing. But rather artists goes like crazy kindry, crazy YG, or rather it's 300 people on Instagram like them, as long as it's that feeling, I feel accomplished. How do you have time during this to also be pursuing your art, like putting out albums as an artist? Throughout all this, I mean, like we haven't even gotten to the last five years were to pimp a butterfly.

And like, you know, just, just huge, huge albums are starting to come out after that and you're still putting out records. How are you finding time to do that? Because when I first got on, when I first started getting on, I never, so many artists, so many musicians, so many musicians lose their own path from building others' paths or helping others so much, which is cool. But, but I still have dreams myself. I have individual dreams.

I have group dreams. I have different sets of dreams. So I'm working hard at all of them. I'm putting action behind all of my dreams. And one of my dreams is to keep on putting out records until I can't breathe anymore. No matter what level, I just, it's a feeling. I just want to put out music.

I just want to put our music, you know. So when people go back years later, they have a catalog that is heartfelt music that they could always go to. It's like when I first started getting into that, when I started going to Amoeba in Hollywood a whole lot, I should spend thousands of dollars a month at Amoeba because BattleCat taught me, BattleCat taught me, you know, pretty much just looking at him,

do it every time he'd get a check or a lot of money, he would go buy a piece of equipment or go buy some records. It was always put money back in the game that you eat from. Don't buy bootlegs, shit, spend the money. Don't bargain shop for keyboards and records. Spending the money. Somebody made this equipment so you could feed your children. So I spent $1,000 at Amoeba,

but every time I went, if you look at the Miles Davis section and the jazz section, it's like the catalog is ill. And I'm talking about from prestige to Columbia, to the modern hit records and at Warner. Like, it's so much catalog that I was like, you know, everybody wants to play like that person

and play like that and do that and tour there. Fuck that. I want a catalog like that person. I want a motherfucking catalog like Miles Davis and I'm gonna get it. That's my dream. I want a big catalog. That's my thought.

What's the best Miles Davis album? The Plug Nickel, 1965, live at the plug nickel. Herbie Hancock on piano, Wayne Shorter, and Center saxophone, Ron Carter on bass, Tony Williams. And it could be, that was the night they started trying different shit

and breaking up the music in ways that Miles didn't even know because the band didn't even discuss what was about to happen to Miles. So Miles would count off a song like this, and they would go crazy fast. Or when Miles would play slow, they would go fast, if Marl plays fast, they was doing all the opposite things that kind of shift the music. And they didn't, Herbie said they didn't tell Miles. They just play behind them like this. And just hopefully they kept the gig and Miles loved it.

And that style of playing is how we all play now, the plug nickel birth. I think the plug nickel birth stretching in the aggressive way of breaking up things with keeping things intact musical. When people ask you if you're, you know, what kind of musician you are, like I say I'm a songwriter, I'm like a below average instrumentalist, if I'm being honest,

certainly in comparison to anything you can do. You think of yourself as a, you know, as a sax player, a keyboardist, a producer, a writer, like, well, how do you describe yourself? What's your soul, when you have that catalogue, And we all go through this discography of yours in 50 years and you've got all these albums. You're a sax player, right? Or are you a producer?

Or are you a writer? I'm just a black artist that's full of black art. And it spills out in different ways. Like, I don't know what the fuck. Like, you know, do I play the saxophone? Yes. Do I love the saxophone? Yes.

If something happens where I can't play the saxophone, I'm not going to stop doing music. No. Do I love writing songs? Yeah. I mean, it's like, it's just art. I'm just trying to get it out however I could get out, however I could get it out. You know, at one point, I thought of myself as I'm just a saxophonist. At one point, I thought of myself as I'm just a producer.

But if I call myself a person that does all different colors, types, walks alike, the different art forms, and I have this community. I was telling somebody else, I said, it's hard to put art in the box because art is the only place where I haven't experienced racism yet. So if art is the place I haven't experienced racism, And why the fuck would I want to put it in separate things to create tension amongst each other how America does us?

Why would I want to do that with art? So it's like, fuck that. I'm everything. You know what I'm saying? And honestly, I've only experienced racism a few times and I'm going through different shit. And usually when I've, you know, been on tour down south and the bus get pulled over or anything like that.

But, you know, in art I haven't experienced racism. So I don't want to start bringing those classes into that. That's why I just do it. If I like it, I do it. Yeah, I mean, this is the wrong generation for genres. You know, we grew up going to the amoebas of the world. But, you know, in theory, we're the first generation to have stores that, like, you go online and they're just songs. They're not.

That's real. Yeah. So, you know, I like that answer a lot. If, you know, speaking of racism in the music business and in an art. art, you know, this, the last few months with the Black Lives Matter movement, how do you feel like the music industry has responded to it? How do you feel like they can respond to it? Like, what can the music industry do better? I feel like the music industry is it is a little cousin to the American system, you know,

what the music industry could do, how they respond, I don't know how they responded because they're still taking everybody publishing. So I don't know how, I'm sure they're responding fine like they always do in their own world. But the music business, not art.

The music business, I always said it needs to be tore down and built back again. You know, it needs to be tore down and built back again, you know. Just like the system, people say, we got to fight the system. Do this.

I believe what this should needs, to be tore down and built. It's restructured. You know what I'm saying? I don't really know how the music industry really responding because I don't really know what the fuck they're doing

because I try to stay away from them. You know, my lawyer deals with that. I make sure all my points, my publishing write, I make sure everything resorts back to me in five years. I only do licensing deals. So, you know, I know a lot more of that kind of shit.

But I kind of stay away from the bullshit. That's why I put out own records on sounds of crunch on. I do my own thing and I say no a lot to a lot of shit. I'm just against all that type of shit. If it's cool, it's cool. If you want to show you respect me, make sure the business is right. So the music industry, you know, once, you know, I mean,

doesn't have respect for artists, you know, especially black artists. It doesn't have respect for artists at all. But the black artists always gets the words in that stick to me in my world from my understanding. You know, usually if you think about it, every artist that's signed to a record label five years later, you'd read the press, they hate them. They want to kill it. They want to kill the record label. Oh, they don't, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm leaving the, I don't, you know,

it's all this shit. But we, we have the documents in the book that says, you idiot, it's bad to do this. So why do you keep doing this? We have all the documentation that tells us, you know what I'm saying, you know. But I don't know how to fuck they responded to this shit, you know. It's not really their job to respond to this stuff. They're not here for that. You know, the, the, the record industry is here to give you a bank loan with high interest.

You know, there was, there was, in the 60s, you had all kinds of music that allowed for, for messages, you know, social messages and political messages. but there's not there aren't tons of genres that allow for honesty about what's actually happening in the world but there's one and you're a part of it I mean that's that's part of the reason why damn ends up getting a Pulitzer pride

you know I mean you're you're working in in a part of the music industry that's actually honest and actually says things that matter. Do you feel as a writer, how often do you have opinions about what the lyrics are and how do you get involved in that part of the writing? Yeah, yeah.

I get involved with, you know, I'm the kind of guy that comes to the studio, and I'm available and excited to fit in wherever the artists are having to fit in, you know. whether it's writing, whether it's concept, whether it's music, whether it's just being there, whether it's just conversation before the record, whether it's just conversation, not the record,

whether it's just listening. I'm okay with being whatever piece of the puzzle I could be. I'm not never the same piece over and over again. Sometimes I'm the counselor of a record, you know what I'm saying? But yeah, I'm digging to both sides. I probably won't fuck with you if you're not rapping and singing about shit, though. Like, if it's some corny-ass cornball shit and it's not concerning the environment, I'm not fucking with you. I just, I don't know what else to say.

I don't, you know, if you're talking about how many bottles you pop and how many bitches you got, how many it is, I'm not fucking with you, bro. Like, but I could give you a list of some producers that I'm sure would love to. For no amount of money, though. And you can ask around. I don't, this is seriously. Like, if it's corny, I don't fuck with you. Who gave you the, I remember that early on somebody saying that, now they don't want to put out that kind of, that same sort of thing.

That there are other producers. That's a really cool concept, but that's not really a concept for me. Where did you get that conviction from? Is that just you having lived your life this long? Or from the outset where you always like, I need to write music that matters? I grew up, I mean, I grew up around really, really solid people, meaning really true for men, true for women, that identify with real shit. You know what I'm saying?

You know, so it's like, I don't want to be a part of no bullshit on the streets. I don't eat bullshit food. I don't eat McDonald's and Taco Bill and Burger King and I don't eat that shit. I don't like nothing that shit. You feel me? I've always been like that. I always dress fresh, hell of young. I always was popular without the instrument.

Like, I just never. I never fuck with weak shit, bro. Ever. Like, I've been cool my whole life. I swear to God to you, bro. I never, but I never fuck with the cool kids, neither. I always fuck with the person nobody fucked with, because I'm like, oh, they know something.

From junior high on up. So I always been with the quiet motherfuckers that people thought was quiet, but was mastermind and everything. So I never wanted to beat a loud dude in front because you can't get shit done. that. You know what I'm saying? So, like, for me to be how I am right now. And then I just learn, man, let me give you just the simple, honestly. Every time I used to do them

whack-ass sessions for motherfuckers like that, artists, rappers, the business would be bad, too. When the music was bad, the business would be worse. That came in common. Every time my gut didn't like the music, but I was still playing, doing a record, the money would be bad or it would take a year to get the money. I remember one, I was only, back then, like, you know, 15 some years ago, I was getting like 10, 10,000 a beat. But let me tell you how this breaks up. You get 10,000 a beat. You do it for artists.

Like, if they talk about some bullshit, you know, the business bullshit, the A&R bullshit. So between 10, you got to get your lawyer 5%, your manager 20%. So that's 25 gone. So now you get the first half of 10, which is five. But you got to get everybody, a whole percentage gross off of that first first half. After they give you the first half, they give all the files. They mix the record. the motherfucking record out. Now you have to chase your other $5,000 for like sometime,

five, six months while the artist is taking magazine pictures, pictures with cars, chains, and the A&R that pop. Now you got Instagrams where you can see these goofy-ass A&Rs that steal people's shit doing dumb as so many goofy-ass A&Rs in this business that have chains on and shit. But anyway, that's a different tale one day. And I'm so happy I can talk this shit at this age now. But anyway, back then I never, I saw that was a problem

and I got into it with a few people about not paying you when I first got in the game. I didn't understand this business is about rush, get here, and fuck you,

I'll pay you when I want to. I didn't know that that's what their program was. But they didn't know that that wasn't my program and it was met with some gangster shit because I'm,

I'm a man. It's met with some other shit. So in order to avoid me from slapping motherfuckers, I would take advantage of my artistry, bro, I just said, let me fall back because I don't want to slap nobody and go to fuck the jail, because I was going to beat up

a few people that took advantage of me and other musicians. But I said, you know what, bro, let me just chill, be peaceful, Usa, and not fuck with them because I don't want nobody to give me that mad because that means they got control over me. So that's really why I don't fuck with certain things.

I can tell in the artist's whole shit what the business is going to be like. Yeah, I mean, I think you said it. When the music was, when the music's bad, the business is worse. It's worse, bro. And we know that you've been through that. I've been, we know that going in, but we still go because we're servants of the arts. But not no more, bro.

I'd rather stay home and watch power over and over and over and over and over again. We're going to go to our next segment, which is a five for five. I'm going to just list five people. And I just want to hear. what your thoughts are on it. No real rules, to be honest. Okay. But we got to start with Snoop.

Snoop. The Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the human hard drive of all music, the master at getting along with everybody, the master is showing the highest level of respect and still responding like a human, the most honest, true, forgiving man I've ever met in my life. And I love him.

Every time I talk to him, I tell him I love him. Sober or drunk, I tell him I love him. And I appreciate him for everything he's done for me and everything he's done to the world. He's inspired so many people to do great. And I love Snoop Dog. I love it. Quincy Jones. Quincy Jones.

Huge force. Huge force. Powerful, sweet man. giving honest, extremely, extremely, extremely, extremely honest, you know, a teacher of life. Master of common sense, though. Like, when you think it's that deep, no, motherfucker, it's just not, it's just simple. Like, if you walk across the stream, don't look both ways, you could die. You know, it's like simple things like that.

But a master, a wizard, he's a wizard. He's Yoda. He's Yoda. Kendrick Lamar. Kendrick Lamar. The sun. You know, the sun that doesn't go down, you know. This high force in the sky that just overlooks everybody and makes sure everybody has their vitamin D and make sure, you know, things grow properly.

And, you know, the one that even us as humans, we are fucking up the world. You know, the environment is, we are fucking up the environment so much. right now, the sun still finds time to say, okay, let me shine on these dumb motherfuckers again. They keep fucking up the environment, but let me shine on them again. And that was Kendra Moore reminds me. I love that. Herbie Hancock. Herbie Hancock.

Like, like everything. Everything I just said rolled up in one. I can't get over the fact that when you're like, well, I know, I only tour with Herbie Hancock. It's just like, you know, we've done a hundred-something episodes, at least recorded them. There aren't like four people who can talk about. I love that. Oh, and I play with Herbie Hancock.

It's not like a regular thing that gets. Hey, let me tell you, it's definitely not regular. And every time he allows me to hang out with him, I'm very shocked. But Herbie is, when I think about Hervey, he's like a chapter. He's like, if I had a book of just a few chapters, he would have a big one. He would have the chapter. after Snoop because when I got with Snoop, Snoop taught me so much thing about manhood,

being a father, being calm, being in business, keeping a player, keep them fly, be clean, execute the job, you know, be cool. Herbie taught me, relax, think it through, relax, take your time, don't rush. Nothing great happens fast, don't rush, take your time with everything in life, you know. So he's like the other end of the stick, you know.

Actually, I'm going to go more than five for five. So I'm sorry. It's all good. You could grab me and you all. Was it, didn't Jay Leno have something to do with also? Oh, yeah, Jay. Peace out of Jay. Jay was my guy.

Jay, when I was like, when I was in 11th grade, it was getting, it was time for me to start looking at colleges after 12th grade. And it was like, every school was so fucking expensive I was looking at, you know. Kyle Larts. was expensive, USC, Maddattan School of Music, you know. But I was also fucking with Battlecat when I went to college, so I didn't want to go to New York. And I didn't tell anybody.

Up until this point, Robert Kamasi, then-a-cad, my mom, we all went to out there to look, I found an apartment in Brooklyn. I was going to do New York. I didn't tell nobody. I hated that fucking dream. It was an old dream, but I was scared to disappoint, you know, especially the jazz community.

I was like, you know, raised under Billy Higgins and stuff. So it was like New York, go to New York. But then I got with Battlecat and Snoop. And it was like, I got to make this motherfucking bread, man. I like this, man. It's cracking out here. I need one of these cars and I need to get this cracker. This is nice, man.

And I had kids, you know, you know, I had a kid at 16, another one at 18. You know what I'm saying? So I was already in college. I've been paying child sports since I was a child at that time. So I was already in college still dealing with, regular life stuff. So I was like, I need to get it crack.

And so, you know, Jay Leno had like a thing where he, they saw it after, I mean, I mean, for what they thought were the top young musicians in all 50 states. And I happened to be one of the ones in California at the time. And the deal was, you know, he said, man, I want to give you a fool. Well, I had been going to the Jay Little show right to go fuck with Ralph Moore. Ralph Moore was my own boy. That's a tenor player that was on Jay Little's show. I was ditching high school to go fuck with Ralph

because I wanted to learn how to site read like that. So I would ditch high school go fuck with the NBC lot. I'd be high as fuck. Two joints high school. Walk up in that motherfucker smelling like we, a kid and like looking at Ralph Moore read through the charts. And I was, how does he do that?

And I'd be so fascinated. So Jay was kind of seeing me and shit around for like a year. I was fucking with him all for a year. Smitty Smith and everybody. So then when I got that that thing. He was like, oh, I'm plugging you in. And he paid for all my years at Cal Arts. And he bought me a saxophone. It was a King Super 20, Silver Sonic. No, King Super 20. Oh,

it was a King Super 20 from 1954 with the Pearl Inlay. What? Just full pearl. And he bought that horn for me from the horn connection. Yeah. You know what? I got to find my, I got to ask my mom, she got that videotape of that ceremony. I was 17. Yeah. And then after that, I started being on Jay Leno every other month with an artist for like seven, eight years, bro.

Like, I did Jay Little so much, bro. You know, thank God it was a beautiful show. And every time I went to the show, I never act like I always, I checked in, made sure I got my shit. And I went to the side of that stage, and I kept looking out Ralph Moore the whole time. Crazy.

Dinner party. Oh, yeah. I don't know. Tell me about it. Dinner party. Welcome to the dinner party. Dinner party is a... It's so good. Thank you, man.

It's a group that, myself, Robert Glassford, Ninth Wonder, and Kamasi, Washington, you know, this was an idea that me and Robert had and we went over to Ninth Wonder with the idea. We was going to name an early hour, I'm called Bleak Gillian with me, him and me, Robert, Glassburg, Ninth Wonder. We never got around to doing it.

And then two years later, I'm in the studio. I'm working with Kamasi every day anyway. We're working on Kendrick. We're working on Anderson Pack. Me and Kamasi, we're working every day. Then I said, I need to do that motherfucking album. He said, what out? And I'm like, oh, yeah.

I started talking. I'm like, bro, you want to be in this group? It was like, fuck, yeah. Then we just did that album, dinner party. And it was like, yo, I'm going to put Kamasi in the group. It was like, yeah. And then Kamasi was in the group. And it was like, we're a group, dinner party.

It's my first time in the group. So sick. All right. Last two. Your mom and your dad. Everything. Like my mom and dad are my best friends. Like, I'm fortunate to have a friendship and a son relationship with them.

You know, we all grew up real tight. It's like we grew up tight. I was very free in my house. I grew up in a free household. They were free. we were very free. I could always speak my mind respectfully.

I was one of the kids I was able to have opinion. And I was one I don't want to eat that. I don't like the way that taste. It was respectfully. And they gave me a lot of freedom. And I thank God for that.

I thank the creative that they gave me so much freedom. And they surrounded me with so many different people. It's like my father's a musician. So he's so many different friends. Spanish friends,

white friends, Asian friends, African friends, Dominican. I mean, so many, different people would come a day. I never had a chance

to even have an inkling to even know our feel what racism is growing up. And every walk of life came through South Central to fuck what it's because of the art. So I never saw and felt that shit and I thank my mom and dad, they didn't

protect me from, they did protect me. They surrounded my environment with 100% artists. Even when crack was in our world, And my parents was going through their shit back and forth. We were standing out of motels and hotels for years. We lived at the Crenshaw Motel off and on for a couple of years. And the LAX Motel.

I mean, we lived in motels because we was doing bad. But it never felt like that. I still was dressing cool. And I was still, they would take me to far-ass zoo trips and far-ass places. My dad would just be like, man, come on, come on, man. He used to talk to me so rough. Nowadays, they would call it abusive, but it's love. He's like, come on little motherfucker.

We're going to get in the car and play cold train for two hours. And I'd be like, fuck! No more jazz! Because I hated that shit, because that's all I heard young. But I didn't know he was planting a seed. You know, he was planting seeds. And the soil was a little dry. I was soil.

It was new, but it was dry. He was planting seeds. He was planting seeds. And I think what he did was planting seeds. And one day when hip hop took control of my life, the creator made sure the hip hop that was coming past my life was Eric being Raquim, black sheep, blah, blah, blah, blah, the tribe called Quest. And then it went.

The tribe shit started connecting with the jazz shit and then it went. But then I wanted to be a Crip all my life growing up. I was like, I was really on some other shit young. So then the Crip shit and all this came together. The jazz shit is the non-racism everybody loved. Hip-hop shit is like that. Even the Crip shit is like that. If you're a white dude grew up in a trip neighborhood,

you've been in a few years, and the homies like you, you might get put on. It's all good. It's like, you'd be surprised. Like, racism is some old shit. That's some old white people, old shit.

Like, my friends, man, when all this shit have, I had so many friends call me crying, man. I don't even know how to take that. My fuck's calling me crying. I said, God, why you fuck you crying for it? I'm sorry, man. I said, hey, bro.

One thing about me and my fucking. Don't call me crying because I identify who the enemy is. You ain't the enemy. Hang up my motherfucking phone. I love you. Smokes some weed tomorrow. Bye. You know what I'm saying?

Don't worry. I love you. Don't worry about that. Just stay on your ground with me. Let's keep pushing this love and fuck this racism. Shit up. You know what I'm saying? That's how I looked at it.

And my mom and dad did that. They made sure I was equipped where I could even go into the world and not get turned out by drugs or not get, you know, get, get, get, get with the wrong woman and fuck up. You know, I know so many, you know, everything's so sad. I don't know what the fuck I can say no more. But my lot of young friends I was growing up with were getting these relationships and get lose all focus

and then rather turn the drugs, turn it is. So they just kept me in with my foundation, man. And I love, man, you know. And my foundation is God, my mom, my dad, family music, and cribbing. Well, thank you. To the highest level. And when I say Crip, because people get it all fucked up, community, research, and progress. You feel me?

Like, it's the meaning behind my biggest heroes come from my neighborhood first. And it wasn't the kind that was killing people or anything. It was the kind that took care of their families, made sure the neighborhood have food, make sure we have festivals and make sure we policed our own. Because in the black community, the police has never policed us. They just always harmed us. We've never been police. And I'm sick of paying taxes so the motherfucking police could kill us.

I'm about to carve out these goddamn taxes as soon as my lawyer figured out and I'm sick of paying so the police could keep killing us. I don't mind paying taxes but the paramedics and the teachers and the trash companies. But the police, man, fuck y'all with love.

No, man, we all want to carve out those taxes. None of us want that tax money to go to shit. No, man, not, not. We don't need to pay the police until they understand love is love. and work it out. The police, you know, we, you know, and I keep bringing this shit up, man,

because it's hard to talk about anything other than the true environment was going on, which is we've got to, we got to get this shit together. All of us got to, it takes all of us. You know, this is the first time I've seen so many white people marching with black people. Man, and different national, man, we, we are love. This is fucking up.

Hey, Donald Trump is, I know he's getting boo-boos right now because he never seen so many different motherfuckers with each other. I know he's shitting on himself every day. Diarrhea, green, or turmeric orange. Hell yeah. Dude, thank you so much for doing this. It's all good, man.

You know, we get a, like I was saying. When we meet up, we got to smoke. When we meet up, we got to smoke this, man. I'm into it. Look, I was going to say, we've had, we've all kinds of guests. but I always admire the ones that can work with that integrity of making sure that the music they put out represents who they are as actual humans and to connect their art to who they are as a person because we have a lot of you know a lot of people who are really good at at understanding the matrix of commercial music and they that that's their passion and I respect that too because that's a that's a huge thing but it not everybody is putting out content in the

world that actually makes a difference and and where that's their mission statement is to put out real art that says real shit and you know you do that really well and you know thank you well shit man thank you so love I appreciate you man be peaceful stay safe don't don't eat the cafeteria style food that whole food Yeah, exactly. All right, that's it. All right, peace, man. Thanks for listening to this episode of And The Writer Is.

If you want to hear music from this songwriter I just interviewed, be sure to check out our Spotify playlist, or visit our website at and thewriteris.com. If you like what we're doing, please subscribe to us. You can also like us on Facebook and Twitter. And The Writer Is is produced by Joe London, edited by Miles Bergsma, and published by Big Deal Music.

A special thanks to David Silberstein from Mega House Music and Michael White. Until next time, this is Ross Golden.