Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh - Casey Neistat: “Today's YouTube makes me sad”

Episode Date: April 25, 2023

yerrr, today we had on YouTube & NYC's own: Casey Neistat - we talked the state of YouTube, his wild upbringing, his lack of fear of risk, surviving 9/11, being a dad, his never ending hustle and much much more. INDULGE 00:00 Daily Flagrant vlog 00:46 Casey crashes every car he’s had 05:56 Bitterness isn’t interesting + 2003 Apple video 12:10 Having a daily record of my life 13:35 Becoming a caricature + wife keeps Casey honest 19:46 Staying away from sensationalism 21:23 Casey’s next video “YouTube makes me sad” 24:03 100m views before monetisation - BIG MISTAKE 25:26 Casey is addicted to Prime energy 26:41 Influencer monetisation + doing merch right 28:32 Beme - inspiration & hoodwinking CNN 33:55 Rejected from the CNN PJ + enjoying his riches 41:09 Nothingness+ TOUGH upbringing + Trapping 46:04 Mum gave Casey ultimatum + leaving home 47:57 Rizzing & impregnating at 15 54:20 Becoming a parent + Van adopting Casey 59:21 Moving to New York = from trailer park to tiny studio 01:05:45 Getting the first break + babysitting cats 01:08:51 September 11th, 2001 01:21:20 Oscars + being a sheep isn’t safe 01:26:49 Raising rebellious children that follow the rules 01:29:32 Don’t disparage children 01:35:49 Tasting success - Bill Clinton 01:41:05 “Science Experiments” - might be the first NFT 01:44:02 Not asking for permission- making ads 01:46:11 Failures too 01:47:08 Vlogging - cable access, HBO, Gonzo journalism 01:53:33 Working with Van Neistat and their challenging times 01:55:28 Representing New York + LA feels hollow 01:57:21 Feeling like a Judas + being in love with NY 02:00:30 The King of New York 02:01:35 Misunderstanding New Yorkers 02:04:42 New York is the best it’s has ever been 02:06:29 Chinatown is ungentrifiable and we LOVE it 02:07:46 Half-way houses f-ing up the neighbourhood 02:09:45 Casey will never leave NY + no regrets moving to LA 02:11:32 The importance of story - communicating universality 02:21:58 Doing NY better + finding balance 02:28:00 The story of the sunglasses 02:30:11 Most people are awesome + fame helps 02:34:01 Seldomly saying no to a selfie 02:41:58 Daughter watching Casey’s vlogs 02:44:06 ASMR Camping + girls go camping is educational 02:49:48 Candice is BLESSED + new income avenue? –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– dizzy by Joakim Karud https://soundcloud.com/joakimkarud Music promoted by Audio Library • Dizzy – Joakim Ka... ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

So today's the day, finally doing the, uh, flagrant podcast. Pretty excited about... What are you guys doing? Casey! Hey, Casey. Hey, buddy, we're trying to vlog. What's up, man? Yeah.

Where'd you get my jacket from? Oh, dude, I got it at this great, uh, feet pic website. Is that where you got it? What's up, everybody,, where do you get my jacket from? Oh, dude, I got this great feet pic website. Is that where you got? Today we are joined by One of the most prolific Creators I would say in history and one of the worst drivers I would also say in history we have Casey Okay now Casey I called your brother last night, Dean. And I was like, hey, Dean, do you have any, like, funny stories about Casey that we could bring up, blah, blah, blah?

No, no, first of all, the worst person to call. Your military. He's very, dude, kid's a square. I mean, he wouldn't give me anything. You know, he has top secret clearance within the U.S. military. I realize that. The kid can keep a fucking secret. On the call.

I was like, what's a wild thing that happened? He goes, we went to Prague once. We got drunk. We slept outside. That's all I can tell you. I was like, okay. And then he goes, I can tell you this. He says, Casey has crashed every single car he's ever had.

It's true. Is that true? Absolutely true. And then he tells me this really sad story. He goes, I remember once before I even had my license, my parents bought me a Hyundai Elantra. He goes, they put a red bow on it and everything. That's awesome.

He goes, in 87. He goes, and Casey crashed his car. So what did my parents do? They gave him my red bowed Hyundai Elantra. So what did my parents do? They gave him my red boat Hyundai Elantra. And what did Casey do with that? Totaled it. He totaled it? Yeah, that was the worst accident I think I've ever had.

How did that happen? I was on the freeway with our older brother, Van. And I don't know, like something, you know, you're like 16, I'm paying attention. By the way, that is the least safe car that's ever been made. Oh, it's the car, right? Yeah, yeah, van. I don't know, like something, you know, you're like 16, you're not paying attention. By the way, that is the least safe car that's ever been made. Oh, it's the car, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The car in front of me jammed on the brakes. Something happened.

We smashed into it, spun around in the freeway. I just remember looking up and there was a tractor trailer truck coming straight towards me. Holy shit. And on the freeway, I threw it in reverse and just hit the gas like that. So we're going backwards on the freeway going like, you know, 55. And then I cut the wheel and we just spun

and hit a guardrail and zoomed backwards. That's when we finally came to a stop and like windshield smashed in, doors are smashed, glass everywhere. I turned to my brother,

Vin, and I was like, what were we just talking about? And he was like. Don't you hate that? Yeah. When you get interrupted in a combo by a head on collision. We had no money.

We couldn't afford to dispose of the car. So the flatbed just dropped it off in the apartment complex where we lived. It just sat there. Like this destroyed, wrecked vehicle until we moved. They brought you your absolutely destroyed car. Because they were going to charge us to keep it.

I remember that vividly. I remember when we went surfing. This is before that I've ever met you, right? Obviously very familiar with everything you've done to change the way that people make content. But I go, I'm curious what this guy's going to be. Is he going to be like a version of the guy I've seen in the, I would argue that in the vlogs, it's a tamed down version of the chaos that ensues when you're creating something. Yeah. I gotta, I gotta edit out. I gotta diffuse the, I can't scare off the audience. It was, I mean, I don't think you stopped. You were like,

Schultz, what's up? Let's go upstairs. Go upstairs. Calm down. Surfboards, wetsuits, come downstairs. I look at the car, there's scratches on both sides of the car, right? Like it looked like something the Taliban drives, right? Like it looked like it had been, yeah, dude, it was not. They had a guy in it with the fucking rocket launcher and everything. It was ready to go. And I remember us driving. As you're driving, you're vlogging.

You're giving Miles instructions to vlog, you're pointing at things. I don't think you look straight out the window the entire time. You know, I drive, I can afford safer cars now, so it has like a thing. If you're about to hit someone, it stops it for you. Oh, wow. Yeah, it gives you a lot of latitude. What about just a driver? What about someone that just

has someone drive? Yeah, someone that stops for you. Maybe not vlog while you're driving. No, she's not gonna not do that, but you could not not vlog while you're driving. No, she's not going to not do that. But you could not drive. That car is a brand new, it's like a 2022 or 2023 Land Rover. And it has like, you know, doesn't have many miles on it or whatever. It's a Land Rover what? Defender.

It's been Defender. It's been Defender. Yeah, I couldn't. It had to go to Land Rover of Manhattan on a flatbed because it wouldn't start. And after they worked on it for like a week, they're like, this is the most fucked up Defender we've seen. This car has only been out for a year. We have not seen one this fucked up. I got it back the other day, though.

It still runs. Nice. Well, that's impressive for a 2022 $100,000 car. It's got 4,000 miles on it. Still runs. It's amazing. It's a terrible driver. Dude, I'm stoked that you're here,

and I've been obviously brushing up on a lot of your content. You guys have, like, fucking fancy wristwatches. Yeah. There's, like, gold. No, no, no. I'm looking at that.

No, it's nice. No, that's the base model Apple watch. What do you mean? What is this? This is a Casio? This watch is $17. I got your beat on that. It's got a 10-year battery.

It's got a light. He's got a real problem with the battery life. No light. No light. It's just intimidating. We have light. Okay, cool. You feel intimidated by the fancy watches?

Yeah. I feel small. I didn't think there was anything that would intimidate Casey Neistat. Now you know. Now you know. Anyway, you were saying awesome stuff about me. Yeah, we're going to, you know, more things about you just so we can fluff it. I remember watching this vlog that you put out where you asked ChatGPT to curate the dialogue.

Do you know that like a bunch? Yeah. So what the video was is I wrote to chat or GPT for the latest, which you have to pay like a $9 a month. Yeah. Get your credits up, dude. $9 a month for God.

How dare they? And I, the problem is like writing Casey nice, that vlog. And then I just made that vlog exactly as it said to make it. Yeah, and it was like funny It was meant to be funny and silly so it was so basic what it's like the script was it's really silly But like the AI folks like the real hardcore AI people on Twitter were like super fucking angry at me Why why because they're like had you worked harder? Had you trained that AI?

Yeah Had you worked harder? Had you trained that AI? Had you put real effort into this? You could have really shown what its true potential is, and it could have better mimicked your creativity. And I was like, that's not the fucking point, you fucking idiots. No one knows what the fuck you're talking about. Everyone's an idiot like me. I don't know how to use this thing. It's brand new.

It's been out for like a month. Like you give it a basic prompt, then what it gives you back, like that was the interestingness for me. Was not how good you could make it, but it was like at first glance. Like remember Google 2001, where it was amazing. And this was kind of amazing.

But it was meant to be playful. There are two things in it that I thought were brilliant. One was you saying afterwards the importance of soul and heart in content. And that's the thing that we connect to. And the fact is that AI can't even really mimic that yet. And you were like, maybe if I gave it more prompts, it could mimic heart and soul and passion. But that's kind of what separates a great piece of work. But the other thing that I liked is it looked at every single one of your vlogs, right? And one of the things

that I've always loved about your content is there's not bitterness in it. You're not fucking bitter. When you're angry about something, you make fun of it. When you're angry about the bike ticket, you don't go fuck the police. This is why this city's falling apart. Which is like the easiest, lowest form of content is just to be like, this sucks. Everybody sucks. I know how the world works.

You all suck. Everybody should work to me. Instead, you just prove how absurd it is to give somebody a bike ticket when they're not

in the bike lane. That might be your most impressive vlog because the amount of times you fell off the bike and how old were you? That should look painful as hell. How old were you with that?

I was not a young man. The idea of falling off of anything right now, I'm like, I might not ever get up. You're just throwing yourself off a bicycle on the concrete. That video, I knew when we were shooting that, it was like how committed the falls were, was going to sell that video. No helmet was crazy also. Because you know you're going to fucking take it on the chin, man. I was trying to make a great video.

But look, I think that there's like, it's not interesting watching people bitch or complain or be mad. Like it's not, it's not fun. But everybody's mad and frustrated about everything all the time. So if you can sort of tap into that, like the first video I ever made that was seen, the iPod, the iPod. The iPod.

Same thing. My brother Van and I made this in 2003. It was three years before YouTube was a thing. And my iPad, I was fucking broke. I had no money to my name. This thing was $399. It was a gift and the battery died a year later. And I called Apple and they're like, no, just buy a new one.

So I called them back and I recorded the call. Yeah. And they're like, just buy a new one. And I was like back and I recorded the call where they're like, just buy a new one. And I was like, okay. And I was like, fuck, that's great audio. And then they had those posters where it's like the black silhouette or the white silhouette where you'd see the cord

and it was like the color. And we put like cigarette disclaimers on every poster with a spray paint stencil that said iPod's irreplaceable battery lasts only 18 months. And we put it on a splash page. We made it iPod30secret.com because there's no YouTube. And it went so viral so quickly.

And by the way, in 2003, viral means you copy the URL, you put it in an email, you type in friends' names, you click send. There's no YouTube. There's no Twitter. There's no youtube there is no you there's no twitter there's no instagram and like it was so blew up so quickly that the head of the hosting company called my cell phone and he's like i want you to know we have not pulled your site yet but you're a lot like monthly allowance is 10 gigabytes of bandwidth and right now you're at like four terabytes oh wow so many people have gone to this site. Especially in 2003. Yeah, so I posted on the site.

I was like, we need help hosting this. And I think it was like maybe a couple universities were like, we'll put it on our university servers. You're good. And then it was like

slowing them down. And it just kept, like we could not find a place to sustain it. And then, this is such a fun story. And then we figured at the time,

like now you've got iCloud. But back then you had something that was called iDisk. And then, this is such a fun story, and then we figured out the time, like now you've got iCloud, but back then you had something that was called iDisc, and you could have like an Apple hosted website to share like baby videos and stuff. There was no bandwidth limitations. So Apple hosted the video in the end. Yeah.

It was like $13 a month or something. Oh, that's hilarious. And then they changed the policy. They did. But if it was just a video of me bitching, I don't think anybody would care, but it was fun $13 a month or something. Oh, that's hilarious. About it, yeah. And then they changed the policy. They did. But if it was just a video of me bitching, I don't think anybody would care, but it was fun. It was funny. Yeah, and the style in which you did it,

it carried through. I'm curious your process in creating that. Did you know what you were doing with the stencil and all the- Yeah, I mean, that video, that one in particular, much credit to my brother, Van. Everything I have ever known or learned or done that's creative is like all credit goes to my older brother Van. Like he taught me everything I know. I'm just like a very mediocre photocopy of his like truly virtuous creative brilliance.

And like that video in particular, like that video was mostly his idea. Like I edited it and I put the like easy E track under it and like did all of that. But like the idea of like, let's cut out a stencil. Like the stencil scene, those are his hands, not even my hands. Yeah. Like all credit to Van Neistat. Yeah. Like total fucking genius.

Such a unique way to tell a story even now. And this is, well, y'all, you're 22. I don't know how old Van is, but that's 20 years ago, literally. It's wild, right? And that style was, even now you're like, don't know how old van is but that's 20 years ago literally it's wild and that style was even now you're like that's a great that's unique you know the 20 year ago thing so like i had the daily vlog started in 2015 i think yeah and i was cognizant of this when i was making it but it's like i'm i have a daily record of my life it's like pretty well produced yeah oh yeah of my whole life and i was like pretty well produced. Oh yeah. Of my whole life. And I was like, someday I'm going to look back

at this. And it's going to be interesting, but I've always been so close to it. Then last week when Elon's rocket fucking exploded or whatever, my buddy texted me. He's like, we got to go see it next time. Have you ever seen like a rocket? Have you guys ever seen a fucking rocket? Not in person. You have? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I grew up in Florida, so we're right near space. Life changing.

Yeah, it's crazy. Like when you look at it, there's a fucking human in there. Yeah. And I went for the last space shuttle blast-off ever. It was, like, a dream of mine. I grabbed my girlfriend. We drove down there in, like, a Winnebago, and we watched it in 2013. Yeah. And I made a movie.

It was, like, the trip where I fell in love with her. And, like, we're, like, married now with a bunch of kids and stuff. But I was, like, playing that back, just trying to find the scene where the rocket blasts off for that moment and like i watched the whole like 10 minute movie like sitting there crying because like we're like dating we're like young and i was like oh shit that thing where i look back at it and i'm able to see my life in such like such a vivid portrayal like that's happened it's like having a wedding video for every single day yeah three years instead of it being just like a fucking terrible wedding video it's like having a wedding video for every single day for three years. Yeah, but instead of it being just like a fucking terrible wedding video, it's like an interesting thing. Or a reminder of the happiest day of your life.

One of those two. There's a video you put out recently that I was watching. I thought it was very good, very introspective. I thought it was very good, very introspective. And what some of you struggled with, which was the inauthenticity of living through a vlog. Yeah, yeah. And how that kind of pulled at you from the other people who copied you was, well, one story, but we can get to that later. You actually understand story,

but also authenticity. You are incredibly comfortable talking to a camera. It feels like you're talking to me and I do not like doing that shit. I hate it. I don't know. For some reason, I don't connect it to it. I don't know what the fuck it is. But when do you start to feel yourself almost doing, is it an impression of yourself? Why do you feel inauthentic? I don't know. The vlog particularly, like uniquely,

it was about my life. Like every day I would just sort of pull interestingness from my life. And if you start to examine your life from like a third person perspective, it's really interesting for a while. Like the place where you go, and I don't mean I live a particularly interesting life.

I just mean like I go to this place and get a smoothie. I know the owner, we say what's up. Like I know I've got friends. It's like, it's interesting. You have to see something, but like that works for like a couple of days know you're like all right all right like the next 797 days you gotta come up something fresh and like so like that starts to fade and you start to feel it being repetitive and you get insecure and those sort of like those very introspective insecurities really start to build over time.

So then you start to seek interestingness elsewhere. And I think this is like, this is why we've seen the rise and fall of so many YouTubers. It's like, okay, I need to be more interesting. Like, let me rush towards sensationalism. Like, you know, it's interesting, a car accident. You know, it's interesting, like anything extreme, like that's it. So let me rush towards that. I never wanted to do that ever.

Like none of that. I did not want to seek sensationalism. So you just start pulling, you start creating and all of a sudden, yeah, you start to feel a little bit of, you're like playing a caricature of yourself. And that was tough. Like confronting that was tough. So instead of living your life and then making content about it, you're like, yo, how can I live my life in a way that makes interesting content?

And that felt inauthentic to you. There were weird, like, um, unintended consequences though. That I was thinking about this a lot this morning on my run, particularly this morning, I was so drilled in on this. My wife and I were fighting about something yesterday. And this is what I was thinking about. My wife is the most amazing character on camera because she gives zero fucks. She does not give a shit. And like a lot of like partners and YouTube vlogs are always like, hey, what are you doing?

You know, it's a very, very turned up. And you're like, I've met a lot of people, never met a human that's actually. This is an inconvenience to her. She doesn't give a shit. And no matter what, she'd say something interesting, but please say it again. She's like, you can go fuck yourself. I'm going to use that.

But I remember vividly, like, I needed her so much for those moments. That when we'd get in actual fights, I'd be like, I can't afford this fight right now. I can't afford this fight right now. I can't afford this fight right now. Wow. And that sounds like a little bit evil and awful, but I think there's another side to it, which is like, you're married, like, you know, like you get into a fight

over fucking bullshit. And if you step away and you're like, you know, if something were to happen, if lightning were to strike tonight, would I give a shit about this, what we're fighting about? Like, no, this is meaningless. It's stupid.

Just push it aside and love her. And like the vlog in its most virtuous take forced me to do that with her. Like I couldn't let the bullshit fester. Yeah. Which sounds virtuous, but I couldn't let the bullshit fester because I needed her to make my fucking video.

Yeah, but the outcome was the same. But the outcome was the same. And I think about that now because that thing that I was thinking about that we were fighting about like this morning on my run is that that I literally didn't put the dishes in the dishwasher last night. And I'm like, you know, if I don't want to fucking put them in the dishwasher, I'm going to put them in the fucking dishwasher. Who the fuck is she? She can put them in the fucking dishwasher.

You know who pays for the maid? I pay for the maid. I'm not putting them in the fucking dishwasher. That always works. I pay for it. That's my favorite argument. Bring that up. If that doesn't work.

But why do they love that so much? What is it about women when you tell them that you provide a ceiling and if that doesn't work you just say you know what you're acting like your mother right now and that just calms her down but that just gets my wife so horny it's funny

have you ever just called them crazy that's a good one or just be like oh you're on your period they just say calm down calm down and just call them crazy? That's a good one. I gotta use that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or just be like, oh, you're on your period. Just say calm down. Yeah, calm down. It's the best one. And I don't consider myself like a Casanova,

but I know how to speak to women. Yeah, look at you, dude. I can tell. I gotta try that too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Calm down, you crazy mom-like woman, you. That's a good thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Use that. You can't use the B word. Oh, no, sorry. That's too far. That's crossing your line. You monster. I'm sorry. Unbelievable.

I'm talking about women we love. How dare you? I cross the line. I cross the line. Instead of couples therapy. What crazy lunatics. The mother of my children. She's not a B word.

She's not a B word. The thing is, she's always right. Yes. And I am the problem. Yes. I acknowledge that. Yes. Instead of couples therapy, just start a vlog.

And that will save your marriage. It's like there is genuine truth behind that outrageous statement. Did you ever give her bad edits because you were annoying? No. Honestly, it was always the other way around. It's like she would always like, when I would look back at the footage, I would always realize how fucking wrong I was. And I'm like, shit. And I have to like

sweeten myself up in the edit because she's always right. Yeah. She's like a very kind, smart, beautiful, loving woman. I'm like a fucking monster. So you're doing retakes

on green screen? You're like, I love you, babe. Different outfit, different day, different everything. It's a narration. Always, always.

I'm curious, what kept you away from sensationalism? Of all these other YouTubers going down that track, was it the detachment from the data or the monetization, or was it just a dedication to the art? It's more just watching my peers do that and just such fucking disgust. And that's not a judgment on everyone. My little daughter, she's eight now, she's not so little, but when she's on YouTube unsupervised, then we have her fucking iPad

locked up. But she's smarter than us. You can put all these filters on it and shit. She's figured out all she has to do is sign out of iCloud and all the filters disappear. There's no beating her. When no one's looking, she's watching these family vlogs. And it's the grossest shit you've ever seen.

And it's really yucky. I hate it. And everything's like, wow, what are we going to do today, guys? And it's like, let's go throw mommy's car in the river. And it's like this fucking just lunacy. And it was so gross that I had this tremendous insecurity that I'd ever get even

close, even near that. Because make no mistake, I am a YouTuber, I'm a vlogger, I make videos about myself. They're very self-centered, they're very self-aggrandizing. It's me talking to a camera with the presumption that the world gives a shit about what I think. I don't hide from any of that, but there's still a little thread that I like to think of myself as a filmmaker or storyteller. I've got that insecurity on one side and that driving

desire to still maintain some of that filmmaker integrity on the other. I think it's a needle that sometimes I thread well and other times I don't. Do you think any of it is an advantage of being older? Because when YouTube came around, yeah, we grew up in a generation where you need to be a little self-conscious about what the fuck you're putting out there. Kids don't have that. Yeah. I also think it's like,

you wanted to make films. And I think a lot of people want to be famous and they just see YouTube as the way to get fame. So they're chasing whatever brings them fame. And that might be sensationalism. That might be throwing a car in a river. It might be whatever. But the thing that you would probably be most self-critical about wouldn't be a lack of success. It would be being a hack filmmaker. Yeah. Yeah. I wrote a video this morning called, I'm not sure if I can make it, if I talk about it, but I'll talk about it anyways. It's called YouTube makes me sad. And it's because I, I'd like to think, and this could be my naivety speaking, but like, I like to think that like the driving desire to be on YouTube for,

for aspiring creators is that they want an outlet for creative expression. They want to make art and they want to make interesting things. They want to tell stories. They want to do all that. And when, when I know that's know that's my sole driving force. I never look at metrics. I never pay attention. That's why I didn't monetize my channel. Like, it's why I never focused on any of that shit. I just wanted to make things that were, I thought was good.

And now I think the pendulum has swung so far in the other direction. Yeah. Where it's just about like monetization. I remember I was at like this YouTube conference thing a year, a year and a half ago. And like the guy who was interviewing me was like, so the first person you should hire when you are getting big as an editor, what do you think the second person you should hire? So I'm like, who the fuck says you should hire an editor? I was like, I've never worked with an editor. I was like, the editor is where I write the story. The editor is, and he's like, you know, the assumption that he was

making is that like the purpose of this solely is to grow, not to make something that is about creativity. And I reject that so, so like wholeheartedly, so handily. I fucking hate that. And I think that that is what sort of YouTube culture has become. And it's a bummer. And I like to think that like back in the vlog days, six, seven years ago, it was much more about creativity. And now it's much more about metrics numbers, like fucking juking the algorithm, maximizing retention and all that. I don't give a shit about any of that. That's why my brother Van Nistad is my favorite YouTuber. He literally doesn't look at that. His wife uploads his videos.

He finishes them and then starts making another one. He doesn't even look at his back. He doesn't have access to his back. He doesn't give a shit. He just makes what he thinks is good. That's exactly right. And I think that's the most beautiful thing. How long did you go before you decided to monetize? Well, one, I want to be clear here. I fucking regret it, and it was stupid. And if I could go back in time, I would have pushed that button. Money's good, too. But 100 million views before I turned on monetization.

You didn't know how to do it. My reason was like, I spoke at a YouTube panel about it when I still had not turned on monetization. You didn't know how to do it. My reason was like, I spoke at a YouTube panel about it when I still had not turned on monetization. And it was like, the reason why is I felt like, one, this was back when not all videos had ads. And like when a video would have an ad, I'd be like, ugh. And sometimes I'd click away. I'd be like, one, I don't want to alienate my audience. And then two, for me, I made money as directing TV commercials then, like doing other work. So I wanted to think of YouTube purely as just like an outlet for passion projects. And the minute it started making me money,

it would stop being that. I want to be clear, both of those things were grossly misguided and I fucking regret it. And it was a mistake. I should have clicked that fucking button. You know how many dollars a hundred million views is? Could have bought another car to fucking crash.

I did the same thing. Like when I started uploading, I didn't put the ad because I was worried that people would click away because I would always click away. Me too, always. And then I didn't realize until much later on that like YouTube wants there to be ads. You get more views. Yeah, if they're making money, right, then they might show your shit to more people. I want you to know this is not a paid promotion.

This is not a paid promotion. We're getting 100 million views. What are we working on right here? What is this? The money is good. How much is Logan paying you, bro? Zero. I'm bringing this up because this is something I'm embarrassed about

and I needed someone to talk to about it, and I thought this would be an appropriate venue. You love Prime Energy. Logan's a friend. I love the guy. And he told me about Prime before he launched it. Yeah. And I don't know if it's him or just the smart people running his company,

but cases of this shit shows up in my office. Yes. And I have, like, an unbelievable addiction to it. Have you tried this shit? We have. He sends us cases to our old office and I just haven't corrected him. There's a stockpile. They literally DM me once a month.

They go, can we send you more Prime? I go, absolutely. So it's just sitting in some Hasidic Jewish guy's apartment in Williamsburg somewhere. There's an artist in Bushwick that's just primed out every day. I don't know what kind of fucking fentanyl shit they put in there, but my God. It's good stuff. I try not to drink more than three a day. There's like nine cups of coffee worth of caffeine in that.

Gets you going. Yeah, he's definitely not getting paid for that. Fucking gets you going. No, no, no. He's the greatest endorser. Once 100 million units get sold, he'll start making lots of money. I'll turn that button on. I'm curious.

Do you ever wish that you were part of, because it looks like in the next year or two, you're going to see YouTubers monetize their fan base in a different way, not through the ads, but through products. Jimmy's obviously doing it with the Feastables and the cookies, and Logan and KSI doing this. Do you ever wish that you had a product that you sold? Yeah. The other thing that I wish I had done sooner was merch.

I always thought merch was sort of a lame sellout sort of thing. Yeah. And I thing that I wish I'd done sooner was merch. I always thought merch was sort of a lame sellout sort of thing. Yeah. And I think I'm wrong about that. Like I did do merch and it was very successful. And I think back to when I was like a kid and like I got a Red Hot Chili Peppers t-shirt. I wore that thing every, I just was so psyched to show the world that like this is who I like. Yeah. And I think there's something valid about that with merch. I think there's a gross side of it, too, when you're sort of predatorily, if that's a word, focusing on young kids, tell your parents to buy you this shit. That's bad. Yeah.

But I think there's a medium there where you can sell something and people are excited to support you and you're giving them something of an equitable exchange. So I've got nothing against it. I just have a tough time getting excited about it. Getting excited about? Yeah, like I see Logan with Prime and like he's fucking literally jumping off the top rope

at WrestleMania with a Prime in his hand and it's like fucking brilliant and I love it and it's genius and it's awesome and it's the greatest marketing coup in the history of sports beverages.

Yeah. I can't do it. And the product's good but like there's no way I could commit my existence to like a drink or a something. Like I just like making videos. That's the, that's the tricky thing. It's like all of your art has to be centered around promoting this one thing. To me, I just would feel inauthentic. Don't get me wrong. I love the idea of having a billion dollar exit on a drink. I'll take the exit. Is it worth every single video that I do? I'm walking around the bottle.

I'm on stage. I'm drinking it. Every joke is centered around Prime. I mean, I will say like my technology company, Beam, was very much so, I think, a parallel to that. It was just a piece of software instead of a sports drink or a t-shirt. Yeah. Can you tell us how you hoodwinked CNN? That's so great. Can you break down how you stole money from CNN? My favorite thing. Yeah, we can get into all the intimacies of that. Yeah. Especially now that my NDA is up. Oh, really? Here we go. Let's go. Yeah. Fire away. Okay. So you create this tech company. Yeah. Okay, you are how old at this time?

35, maybe 36. You are already vlogging? Yeah. Okay, you're already married. Yep. By this time you have two kids? Yep. Two kids.

Sure. And so you're just trying to find ways to just be away from the family. What is the purpose of this tech company? What is the real core purpose of it? I mean, like the actual history of the inspiration behind the tech companies. I was invited to MIT as a fellow, like the MIT Media Lab as a fellow, which was a big deal

because I'm a high school dropout. And to the best of my professor's knowledge, I'm the only both high school dropout who is also an invited fellow at MIT. I still carry my MIT ID. It's in my wallet in my office. Did you graduate high school? No.

Straight to MIT. That's exactly right. As an Indian, that's a thing in your career I'm most jealous of. You graduated MIT. And when I was there, I really stopped making videos. I just enveloped myself into that world. And I worked with a group called the Social Computing Group, which was, like, super, you know, about coding and the social implications of software in 2015. I read this amazing book by Nick Bilton called Hatching Twitter, which was about sort of the birth of Twitter, where they get into the fact that, like, at its inception, the guys that were starting Twitter were just kind of these knuckleheads who had an idea.

And they hobbled it together, and it became Twitter. And I was like, you know what? I'm like, I have ideas. And I realized at MIT, just because I don't know how to write code doesn't mean I can't realize this. And I had this idea for a video product. This is when videos, I thought, social media, rather, was getting really gross. and it was all about filters and lying and like i could create something that's really honest and i found like this amazing partner and this guy named matt hackett who he was like the the cto or the head of uh i don't know what his title was but he's very senior at tumblr super capable like unbelievably brilliant technologist he became my partner we raised venture money and we built this product it was called beam it was originally called be me

because the idea was like you post videos that are unfiltered and raw and people get to experience sort of your life through your perspective and it was awesome and it was great and it was like that was part of the idea behind the vlog like i can use my vlog to talk about this company it's just not that interesting like a bunch of dudes sitting around coding but once we launched the product it became like there was such synergy between the vlog and the product and we had this wildly successful launch and like an unbelievable amount of people downloaded the app and loved it and used it but ultimately like snapchat was better and snapchat like this is right when snapchat stories came out when snapchat stories came out i, like, this was right when Snapchat Stories came out. When Snapchat Stories came out, I'm like, well, this is like what we built, but better in every fucking way. Like, they're really, this is so good.

And ours feels. You had the cat ears, man. Yeah. Fuck, this cat. The rainbow mouth. I was like, fuck, this is so much better than what we built. Yeah. And, you know, we pivoted and we did a bunch of stuff.

We built a really strong community. We built a really strong, but ultimately, like,ed and we did a bunch of stuff. We built a really strong community. We built a really strong, but ultimately like the app just did not succeed. But the funny thing about the tech space is like just because your product fails doesn't mean you don't have something of value. And I met with Jeff Zucker at CNN because his son was a fan of mine. And I remember like at the time, so I was daily vlogging, like I had to rule no meetings. And my agent called me. He's like, I have a meeting for you. I was like, I can't afford a fucking fucking meeting i have to make a video every day

yeah he's like that's what you might want to take it's the head of cnn i was like okay and i met with them and jeff was like how can we work together and he's like a super cool guy and i was like there's no way i got my own thing and i'm bigger than you are more people watch my vlogs and watch cnn like i'm happy there and then then, like, I was like, you know what, though? Your technology sucks. I was like, CNN has bad tech. Your app is like fucking, like, late 2000s app. Like, your website looks like something that belongs on AOL.

Like, it's fucking terrible. I was like, there's an opportunity there. And he handed me off to his people, who were very smart. And we got excited. Like, let's buy your company. And they handed me off to his people who were very smart. And we got excited. Like, let's buy your company. And they weren't buying an app because the app was not successful. They're just buying the tech behind it. They're buying the tech behind it.

They're buying this amazing team that we had built. They're buying, like, access to Matt, my partner. They're buying access to me and my insight. And, like, we had all these ideas together. And, like, that's how they bought my company for, like, a lot of money. Yeah. Can we say how much? Because it's public money. Yeah. Can we say how much? Yeah.

Because it's public record. Yeah. I know, but maybe it just comes out of your mouth. But it's. 200 million. I wish. I wish. Damn, I thought that was going to make you say the real number.

No, like the number that was public was 25 million. And then what's the private number? That was good. That was great. Wow, that was a well-worded sentence. The number that was public. That's the public number, 25 million. Yeah.

Do you get a trip anywhere crazy? Do they take you to some wild sex parties, Anderson Cooper's house? Epstein's Island or something? Yeah. No, but I will say they acquired the company. And right as we were getting up to speed, we went to South by Southwest. And I was the keynote speaker at South by. And CNN had this huge event, that huge party to celebrate and talk about what we're doing together and stuff.

And I remember I was like, all the executives were there. I was like, how long are you guys here for? And they're like, we're all going back tonight. And I'm like, we're like flying back? I was like, it's too late. And they're like, no, no, we got like the CNN plane. We're flying back tonight. And I was like, can I go with you? And I didn't get- They said no? I didn't get to go on the CNN plane. What? Now, hold on. Hold on the CNN plane. Wow. What? Now, hold on.

Hold on one second. Hold on one second, Casey. You know there was an extra. I would have sat in the bathroom. Casey. You've been on PJs. You know in the bathroom, there's a thing you put over the toilet. Yes, 100%.

And there's a seatbelt. I don't sit in the bathroom. I'm not above that. Just bring me back snacks. Yeah, it's almost better actually in the bathroom. Yeah, it's a private room. And then if somebody needs to use it, I would step out. Get out.

Go back in. I'll bring the snacks out. 100%. And then when they were done, I'll go back in. I'll clean. Yep. And then if somebody needs to use it, I would step out. Get out. Go back in. I'll bring the snacks out. 100%. And then when they were done, I'll go back in. I'll clean. Yep. And then I'll eat my snacks. Now, you harbored this feeling of rejection.

I still do. But how did you get around it? How did you— Overcome. Overcome. Not being the private chef. What was the first thing that you did once you got that big deal? What is the first thing that you and your family did? You started doing this once you got that big deal? What is the first thing that you and your family did?

You started doing this once you got that big CNN deal. What was it? How did you guys start flying around the world, Casey? What'd you do? Aaron Eistat. I bought my own 737 Boeing business jet. Take that, CNN! Take that, Don Lemon!

It's parked outside right now. Wow, you taxied over here? Yeah, yeah. Oh, nice, dude. None of this is true. I rode my fucking skateboard here. No, didn't you start flying private afterwards for a little? This is a fun story.

Yeah, I remember, because that was the year CNN, and not only was there that payout, but they hired Matt and I. I had a job. So you're on salary. I was on, I had fucking healthcare. I never had healthcare. And like, also that was when it was like raining with YouTube money. And it was the first time in my life that I had money. And like, I was like, when my first kid was born, I was fucking 16 years old. I was on welfare. Like my first apartment in New York city was an SRO, a halfway house where I bribed the guy at the front with a $100 bill and a carton of cigarettes to give me a room.

I had no bathroom and no kitchen. And it was just fucking like... He doesn't even know he's not out of prison yet. He crossed out somebody's name and he put my name. Yeah, that's what it was like. It was $400 a month, Upper West Side, right on the edge of Harlem. And it was a place to sleep every night. Fucked up shit happened in there.

Fucked up shit happened in there. I would live in there with my kid. And I remember going to the bathroom once with my kid. He was, like, two years old. He was like, I have to go to the party. And it's like, we have to put our shoes on. We have to take, like, our basket with all of our toiletries. And we go to the bathroom.

The fucking bathroom was covered in blood. Wee. And I, like, closed the door so he didn't see it. And I was like, come on, we have to go to the other bathroom. We have to go down a flight of steps. Like, that was my life. Wow. So, like, boom. All of, all of a sudden I get paid.

So I remember saying to my wife, I was like, look, this is going to end. But we're going to like- While it's happening. While it's happening. We're going for it. We went and bought an apartment. And then we didn't get a 737 or whatever

I said two minutes ago. But we got a thing where you get to go on a plane for you rent hours. Yeah, yeah. Net jets or whatever it is. Something like that. But it was like, once we were in Miami and our kid was sick and I was like,

I'll get us our own plane to go home. It was like 8,000 bucks. I was like, fuck, I wish I had the 8,000 bucks right now. But it was fucking fun. It was fun. It lasted like a year. And I was like, honey, honey, no. Just bring it back.

You got the receipt? Bring it back. But it was fun. It was fun. All right, guys, we're going to take a break for a second because let's say, for example, you're involved in a horrible car crash. Now, Casey's not driving that much anymore, so it probably wouldn't be him. But if he was, it could be him. Now, what are you going to do?

If he was, it could be him. Now, what are you going to do? You need to make some money off of that crash. It has affected your life. It has affected your ability to work. You deserve compensation, okay? And Morgan & Morgan could help you get that money that you deserve, okay? They have over 100 offices nationwide and more than 800 lawyers. With over $15 billion recovered for clients, Morgan & Morgan has a proven track record of fighting to get you full

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pound law pound 529 from your cell phone that's for the people.com slash flagrant or pound law pound 529 from your cell now let's get back to the show all right guys we're gonna take a break for a second because we all like saving money, doing absolutely nothing different than we already do, okay? I'm not telling you to save money by buying different products. I'm not telling you to save money by stopping your purchase activity here, okay? I'm not telling you to do any of that. What I'm telling you right now is Honey is going to find a way to save you money.

If there is a coupon code on the internet for a discount for whatever item you're buying online, Honey is going to search for it for you and insert it, okay? And you're going to get that discount. I'm telling you, it doesn't matter what it is, whether it's sneakers, okay? Maybe it's groceries. If there's a coupon code available on the internet, Honey is finding it for you. Honey is a browser extension. I'm telling you, it is so simple. Don't get thrown off by browser extension. What the hell does that mean? Honey is the simplest way for you to save money buying the things you're already buying, okay? This is how simple it is, okay? Imagine when you're shopping, one of your favorite sites.

When you check out, the Honey button appears and all you have to do is click Apply Coupons. You wait a few seconds as Honey searches for the coupons it can find on that site. If Honey finds a working coupon, you'll watch the prices drop. That simple. Honey doesn't just work on desktop. It works on your iPhone too. Just activate it on Safari on your phone and save on the go. So if you don't already have Honey, you can be straight up missing out. And by getting it, you'll be doing yourself a solid and supporting this show. So get PayPal Honey for free at joinhoney.com slash flagrant. That is joinhoney.com slash flagrant. Save that money. Now let's get back to the show. Also, guys, the Bumass Cities Tour, still going strong. Denver, fantastic start. Every show sold out. It was so fun. Best comedy club in America. Also, May 3rd, East Providence, it's also sold out.

No tickets for that left. St. Louis, May 10th. Tickets are still left. And even if you don't like me, last time I was there, I almost got killed. My mom got death threats. It was a whole thing. Let's make it happen again. The Magic at Helium Comedy Club.

May 11th, I'm going to be in Kansas City, Missouri. May 31st, Cleveland, Ohio. June 1st, Columbus, Ohio. Get your tickets at akashsingh.com. Now let's get back to the show. Have you ever in your life felt an aversion to risk? No. And why do you think that?

You know what? I take that back. Now I do. I was talking to Dean about this a little bit. Now I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I never felt an aversion. It's funny.

When you have nothing, there's no risk. There's a freedom to that, right? There's a freedom. When you have nothing, you have nothing to lose. That's exactly right. It's funny. Like when you have nothing. Yeah. There's a freedom to that, right? There's a freedom. When you have nothing, you have nothing to lose. That's exactly right. It's fucking let's go. Like there's nothing to lose. And now it's like, I look at my kids.

I got to pay for their school. And it's like, I got to play it safe. Like I, my biggest fear is not being able to like pay for school and like not being able to like have like a place for us to live where they feel safe. And like, those are my fears now. You can live with nothing. They can't live with nothing. And you can't be the reason they don't have anything.

It gets scary. Can we go back to nothing? You drop out of school at what? 15? 14, 15. Last year I finished, freshman year. What was happening in school? It was less school.

It was more like a fucked had kind of a fucked up situation at home. And I say that gently. Like, we, parents were, they were not like, like, in the grand scheme of things, it was fine. Yeah. But it was like, I was the one who had to, like, tell my dad, like, Dad, Mom's cheating on you. Oh, really? Yeah.

And, like... You saw what happened? It was, yeah, it was like... Like, I had to tell my father that. And that's fucking weird and tough. Oh, yeah. It was like, like I had to tell my father that. And that's fucking weird and tough. And then my mother, you know, my mother really like blamed the kids in a very like classic, like after school special,

like Hallmark movie kind of way, which was just fucked up. And then I just like, we all kind of did, but my sister had a car. Then my older brother was just in college. Dean was little, three years younger than me. And I was just sort of like this weird stuck teenager so it's just like full rebellion you were acting out in school a little bit yeah rebellions her

rebellions everything like i started like selling weed really yeah because i remember like i discovered weed this is a fun little parenthetical here a little tangent for us but i like first time i smoked weed i was like yeah it's a lot of fun i was like but let me get this straight like fucking paper route all week long for like a fucking this much i was like this is like not cost effective yeah and then i remember we like all chipped in and we got a half an ounce and i was like you know mine was gone by wednesday and my boy was like mine's gone in and we got a half an ounce. And I was like, you know, mine was gone by Wednesday. And my boy was like, mine's gone too, but I got more money, I'm buying more.

And I was like, how'd you get more money? He's like, I sold half of mine. And I was like, how much did you sell it for? And he's like, I sold it for 50. I was like, but you only chipped in 50. And he's like, yeah, but, and I was like, oh. And I started like doing the math. And I start, mm-hmm.

Yeah. Start doing the math. And I start doing the math. And I'm like, so you're telling me. If I buy a half a pound, I can get a 1,600% return on that if I'm selling it. That's really good math for a dropout. And that's what I did. And I was just fucking making bank. And how I did it is like the house we lived in everybody slept on the second floor

My bedroom was on the first floor. Oh, so you are free. So they part out a pager so they park a block away Yeah, this is old-school drug deal This is like cranking the window to my parents house like they come up the window and like And like yeah, it's good And they be like you got that eighth I remember I always show them the scale You were doing it from the crib Yeah from my bedroom Out the window like at McDonald's

Is this your parents house or after you dropped out No my parents house This is like look Who made your parents own the trap house That's fine My parents are like They're like, they're like going through shit. Like they don't have time. Like they're fucking, my dad, like I'm the poor guy.

My dad's a great guy. My mother's fucking like fucked up shit in the house. Don't be paying attention to my like operation out of the bedroom window. And anyway, that was one of the ways I was acting out. And like I had some degree of financial freedom because like, you know, I had because under the water bed was hella loot. I was good. And then just got in a lot of trouble at school. A lot of fighting.

A lot of fighting. To this day, these are all teeth scars on my knuckles. What's your record? Are you pretty good? No, I was just like, I got picked on. I was like a little kid who was fucking weird looking. I got into a lot of fist fights. Like kids would pick on me.

Like kids would like, people would like beat me for weed. Like I'd give them the weed. They wouldn't give me the money. Like you got two choices when that happens. You shut it down or you're like the guy that people can steal from. So you had to shut it down. I had to shut it down. I was little.

But you had to learn how to fight. I could fight. So you were fucking people up in Connecticut or what? I mean, it was like a distress. You're talking about kids who barely hit puberty fighting in the backyard in the back parking lot. Nah, those count. Those count.

Alex is seven and four, and eight of those fights are all in the backyard. I hit puberty. They had, but he had. But no, so it was like, it was rough. And then like finally like I got in a lot of trouble in school.

Like something really bad happened. Can you talk about it? I think it was either a fight or when they caught me smoking weed in the bathroom. And it was like a 10 day suspension. And it was also like, you're allowed five suspensions or 30 detentions

and you get thrown out of school. I had 29 detentions at that point in time. It was like my sixth suspension. And I just remember my mom being like, either you live by my rules or you get out of this house. And I remember just like, I know what you're doing. Yeah, you can't tell me. If it was my dad saying that, it would have been such— I remember my dad when he gave me the drug talk and he found out like me and my friends tried acid once.

Like to this day, I've done acid once when I was like 13. And after my dad talked to me about it, it was such an effective talk. Oh, wow. He was like, you know, you know, you know, my friend, I'm changing the guy's name for his, you know, my friend Chris. And I was like, yeah. And he's like, you know how he is? And I was like, yeah. And he's like, after he graduated high school, he spent the whole summer doing acid in the basement. And that's why he's like that. And I was like yeah and he was like you know how he is and I was like yeah and he's like after he graduated high school he spent the whole summer doing acid in the

basement and that's why he's like that and I was like I will never and like that's good I was like solid but it was like coming from her at that moment and I was like fine I'm out you respect your dad a lot and like I was like I'm out and I like

I remember I had like a hardcover book under the water bed like under the bubble that was I'm out. And I like, I remember I had like a hardcover book under the waterbed, like under the bubble that was filled up with money. So keep it flat. And it was like nine or $10,000 in there. And I just like shoved it in my pocket. I took my box fan. I can't sleep without like a fan on me. And I just like walked out, like walked out and like walked down the street. It's like a teenager. Just like left like nine o'clock at night on a Monday. No car, nothing. So where you go? You go see...

I went to like, I remember his name was Ethan, this kid down the end of the street. There were a couple of Ethans, like this kid, and I like called him from the pay phone. I was like, can I stay with you? And he has like hippie parents. He's like, yeah, you can come sleep over. And I stayed at his house for two nights. And like there was this other kid, Dan, who he also sold a lot of weed. And his mother used to like steal his weed.

She didn't give a shit. And I was like, can I stay with you? He's like, yes. And I stayed with him for a few days. And then I met these two girls who were like 18. They had their own apartment. Oh, shit. You can stay with us. No drug dealing.

And you got chipping on rent. And I was like, I got money. And I was like, I guess I should stop doing drugs anyways. I moved in with them. So you rizzed two 18-year-old girls to the point where they just let you move in? Yeah, and then like 30 seconds later one of them was pregnant. Dang, dang, dang.

Like immediately. Come on, dog. Immediately. The daily hog. Not joking. Hold on, you knocked up? Immediately. And you were how old?

At that time I was like i was 15 yeah and she was 18 yeah yeah what was like your personal reflection hold on hold on so so okay so so you're sleeping with one of them yeah does the other one know does she hear it in the night just fucking like yeah i mean I was like 15. That sound never happened. It was like a second, sometimes a glance. I'm sorry.

I apologize. Your dick was a booster board, bro. You get there quick. It was like, was that it? It was a lot of that. We had a great relationship. I liked her. She was awesome. She was cool. There's a lot of that. Okay. But, like, no, I, like, I did, I, we had a great relationship. Like, I liked her. Yeah.

She was awesome. She was cool. She was, like, a really independent, strong-willed girl whose parents had, like, like, she had been on her own since she was young, too. Oh, wow. And she was just, like, a G. She worked hard. She was, like, I had a job then washing dishes because I wasn't doing drugs anymore.

She was, like, driving to work every day. And, like, you know, we didn't know she was pregnant. But, like, you can, you know, you can't know she was pregnant and meet, but like, you can, you know, you can start at the end and then work back. And I'm not joking when I say like, it was within weeks of meeting each other. Was that like tricky to get to that point? Did you hit on her? Like, were you like, oh yeah, this is awesome. How do you cross that threshold? Cause you're homeless, so you're already grateful. And then you bang your landlord. That's pretty impressive.

What is that like? I don't know. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. That's pretty awesome. I haven't thought in those terms in a long time because it's like she uniquely doesn't, like she represents like my son's mother and this woman that I've had this fantastic relationship with for 26 years now. She's this wonderful person that I know. So I've never really thought of her in those terms because she was this hot teenager and I was this kid for this much of our life.

And then you guys became adults. And then for this much of our life, we're just adults together sharing this responsibility of being parents. So I never get to think in those terms, but back then it was like, you're a teenager, you're just learning about girls or hot girls in high school. Were you a virgin at that time? Was that your first time having sex? No, but it wasn't far from that.

It wasn't far from that. I was only 15. It wasn't, it was very... First time having sex to pregnancy? It was close, but it wasn't the first time. There were some fun parties where silly shit happens before that. But there was no, I was not by any means experienced. Casey was a terror in Connecticut.

I had to move you out. I didn't know what was going on. Looking back at it, in the immediate aftermath, when she was pregnant, how did this happen? It was like, oh no, I definitely know how this happened. Yeah, right? Like you realize like this is like not to take it from this fun bro conversation to get real,

but it's like the importance of sex ed, I am dead fucking serious right now. They need to teach kids. I had no clue. You didn't know where babies came from? Yeah. I knew where babies came from, but it was like,

she's not going to get pregnant. I literally remember thinking that. I think you need sex. I had none. I was a kid. I was a kid. None of it made sense to me. I was just a kid.

Obviously, when I'm in my 20s and I'm single, it's all very vivid. But young people have sex without any understanding of what the actual consequences are. You thought the pull-out method was, like, 100%. Oh, 100%. And I would pull out after I finished. Like, I didn't, none of it. I understood none of it. You tried to bail you out. Backwards way.

Yeah. I understood none of it. And it, like, it's like they teach you in sex ed that's the most fun it's like you didn't get to that class i remember like connecticut public school education we had had like you know like one day a year dedicated towards sex ed and it sounds silly but like the time frame from like kissing girls being like yo i got to touch her boobs like that point in your immaturity and your relationship with women, to me literally having a girlfriend be pregnant, that was like, we're talking about months. It's not a long time. And I wasn't dumb. I just had no idea.

And that part I remember. And that's more like reflecting back as a parent and as a mature adult. I remember as I entered my 20s in New York City and I was actually single and I started like a normal life with girls and dating and sex and shit like that. It was obviously like super clear how things work, but for that like short window of time. And I know like a lot of people that were like around my age and my fucked up part of the world who like also got girls pregnant and either had kids or didn't. Also parents are terrified to explain to their kids about sex. I'm terrified to talk to my daughters about it. My wife is like a

hero about it. How did you feel when she told you? Were you scared in that moment? Weirdly, like no. And I look back at that and much credit to her. She's really like an exceptional human being. She's a very strong, super smart, tough, independent woman. But she was terrified.

And I remember one time she was crying and I was like, why are you crying? I was like, we're gonna have a kid. This is gonna be fine. And looking back at that, who the fuck was I to say that? I was like 16. She's driving me to my dishwashing job in a 1988 Ford Taurus that had mismatched door panels on the outside that wasn't registered. And we only had enough gas money to get me to and from work. We could not drive anywhere else where we'd like run out of gas. And like, we're gonna be fine, we're golden.

And no, I think then for me, it was such like a vivid thing that was like, I was like, dropout, drug dealer, fuck up. And it was like, no, no, no. Here's how I can do good. This is like- Being a parent. Yeah, this is your opportunity. This is my key.

Like this is what's going to like fix it. And you can maybe be a better parent. And that's exactly what happened. Yeah. Interesting. Exactly what happened. It gave you what? Focus, determination.

Yeah, yeah. It's like the minute you have a child, you sort of externalize your priorities where it's like, it's not about me. It's about this like amazing thing, this child, this kid. But that's not the only time that you're broke. No, I'm still broke. But then you go on to have some success.

So you move out of Connecticut. The success was still many years, years and years and years away, or like a decade away. Because the baby's born, what, 97, 96? And then when do you go live with Van? So, yeah, so this is like, this gets a little nuanced, but like she was pregnant the entire time we moved to live with Van. So what happened was my brother Van was in college at William & Mary in Virginia. We lived in Connecticut.

And like she and I really started to like each other. We like, you know, we like, we're in it together. We didn't Connecticut. And she and I really started to like each other. We're in it together. We didn't know she was pregnant. And we get like, let's get the fuck out of here. She got into sort of a little tiff with her girlfriend who was the roommate. And she was like, I don't want to be here anymore. And I was like, I got nothing holding me down. Let's go. So we ran away. We moved to Virginia where my brother Van was in college. And he lived in this flop house. We had a room in the flop house. He had to adopt me, my brother Van.

Oh wow, legally. So you could go to school and shit. I was under, I wasn't of age, I was only 15. Yeah. So he had to adopt me. That's a fucked up story. Why? Well one, we had to go in front of a judge.

He's fucking 21. I'm 15, we had bleached our hair the day before. to go in front of a judge. He's fucking 21. I'm 15. We had bleached our hair the day before. No, we thought we'd look handsome. Backstreet Boys? Yeah, yeah,

but we put the bleach in our hair and then we put hairnets over like plastic, like shower caps over and we went to Golden Corral because we were hungry but we didn't know

you're not supposed to leave it in there that long so our fucking scalps were bleeding and we washed out half our hair fell out so we go in there like flaming red scalps white translucent fucking polar bear looking hair yeah and we're wearing suits that we got at like the thrift store like don't fit us and then she's the judge is like what are you doing here yeah and we had a

good story which was which was like i just want to go to school and this is the only way i can go to school i remember she was like all right, well, I guess against my better judgment, I will grant you this. Wow. That is not the last time a judge used that verbiage with me. Can you tell that story, please? That one is in the distant future, but we can get to that story. Okay, we'll get there. We'll get there.

Okay. But then- He's your dad. Yeah, and then when we get into the parking lot- Did he make you call him dad a little bit? No, that's fucking weird. But when we get into the parking lot did he make you call call dad a little no that's fucking weird but when we got what about dad when we got into the parking lot i just remember van was like couldn't get his lighter to work and he's like trying to get his lighter to work to light my winston cigarette and he finally like it's like got it look up and the judge is standing there And he just lit my cigarette and we're like, thanks.

Go get in our fucking Hyundai Excel before we told her, man, and left. That's wild. Okay, so you're living in Virginia for a little bit. And then it became clear, clear that she was pregnant. Yeah. And it was like, you can't live in a, nobody said that to us, but it was like, we can't live in a fucking flophouse. Right. And it was also like, ourselves, we can't live in a fucking flop house. And it was like also like ourselves, like we couldn't deny it anymore.

Right. Like we sort of knew, but it was like the idea of someone being pregnant when you're that young, it's like unfathomable. Like neither of us could comprehend that that was real. What's a flop house? I never heard that. So this was literally called the hippie house and it no longer exists on the campus of William and Mary, but it was like a big, huge Victorian house. That was kind of fucked up, but it had like 19 bedrooms in it. So everybody just chip in a couple hundred bucks and all of a sudden you could afford this gigantic house. And like, you know, the nicer the bedroom,

the more expensive it was like eight people lived in the attic. You just got like a spot that was like a hundred bucks a month and campus on campus. It's now the university bought it. you just got like a spot that was like a hundred bucks a month and campus on campus. A flat house with hippies. Yeah, that's exactly what it was. It's now the university bought it. It's now like one of the administrative buildings. I went back years ago and it was like heartbreaking. Yeah, but that's where we lived. Okay, so you guys moved back to

moved back to Connecticut and we moved in with like her cousin who had four kids of her own. Very nice people. They were just looking after us. We had nowhere to live and we lived in their basement. an unfinished concrete basement. Yeah, it was fucking gnarly. But you never lost self-confidence. You always were like, this is fine. No, I was like, cool. I remember I got a job washing dishes for eight bucks an hour, which was like two bucks more than I'd ever been paid for washing dishes.

So you were just born. Yeah, I remember I came home and the dad, her cousin's husband, he was like, how did the interview go? And I was like, I got the job, eight bucks an hour. And I was expecting him to be like, my man. And instead, I just saw the look of terror. Because he's an adult father. He was like, if you work 100 hours a week, you might be able to afford groceries.

It was like the look on his face. And I didn't understand that. But no, eight bucks an hour, I was like, fucking got it. You never thought about selling drugs again? Selling weed again? You never thought about it? No, no.

Like that was, no. Too risky. Yeah, and it was also just like the child was a pivot point. It was like I was psyched to prove that I was good now. Okay, so you're back in Connecticut. When do you make that move to New York? After she dumped me, which was like, like we lived in a really dumpy apartment that

was dope. That was great. But it was like 300 bucks a month, 400 bucks a month in Connecticut in, in part of Connecticut. And then I remember we bought some real estate. Um, I was waiting for that. I was like, you're just setting up the pins right now and I'm ready to bowl a strike. We bought a trailer that we were able to park on a piece of land. The trailer was $12,000 that we were able to get a mortgage on.

So our mortgage on that trailer was like $110 a month. And then to rent the piece of land that we parked our caravan on was 200 bucks a month. So it costs us less monthly to live in like a mobile home. And that's where we lived. Yeah. Holy shit.

But then it meant I could walk to work because it was closer to my- So you didn't have to spend any money on that. Yeah, so we lived in like this trailer park, this like caravan park.

And it was not bad living. Yeah. But I will say like there's a line in Juicy about like no heat on Christmas day. Like one morning we woke up on, it was Christmas morning,

and the heater for our trailer had completely fried. We had woke up Christmas morning, it was fucking freezing. But eventually, she dumped me. Why? I mean... You had so much going for you. You're making eight bucks an hour for watching this. Well, I was up to nine and changed.

Damn! You want real estate? She dumped me for all the right reasons. I'm making eight bucks an hour for watching this. Well, I was up to like nine and changed. Damn. You know, real estate. She dumped me for all the right reasons. Okay. And I thank the Lord every day that she did dump me because it was the kick in the ass that I needed. And I like moved in with the cook at the restaurant who was also a single dad. Yeah. I like lived in his condo with him.

And then like I started coming into New York on Metro North to see Van, to see my brother. He, this is a fun story, but he had to drop out of William & Mary because my mother spent his tuition money on a new car. Wow. Did you crash it? Sorry, I was never allowed to drive it. But I would have. Yeah, of course. So Van moved to New York City and like New York City was like for me as a child like some kids had like the fucking Testa Rosa or like the

Countach poster Kathy Ireland poster I had like the New York City poster like I obsessed over the city when I was a kid like the movie Big

was my favorite he's this little kid like me and he got to move to New York City New York City was like there was nothing greater in the world that's your favorite movie

when I was a kid I watched it every single day I know every word to that movie I literally wrote down in my notes you're Tom Hanks from Big

yeah that's my goal my whole goal my whole life mission accomplished that's it wow that's all I've ever wanted to be

like he lived in a loft with the fucking toys you ever see my office they're the same space I mean it just makes perfect sense. It's all I've ever wanted since I was a little kid. And you have this juvenile exuberance about life. You're just so

excited about everything that you do. And that is what a child in an adult's body that can do whatever the fuck they want to do would have. There's no bitterness. There's no hate unless we're talking about types of content. Do you know that Tom Hanks was nominated for the Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor or Best Actor in that movie?

Little known fact. That might not be true. What? I believed it, though. So continue. So now you get to start feeling the city. Yeah, so it was like going into Metro and coming in by myself was a big deal. I remember I would drive my car to New Haven, then get on the train.

It was like nine bucks each way. And then I'd come in and we'd talk about ideas and the future. And I had this five-year plan to move to New York City. And then something just kind of clicked. And I was like, no, I got to go. I got to do this. I got to go. And my brother's girlfriend's friend had this shitty place in the East Village,

like in Alphabet city in 2001. And it was like 800 bucks a month for the summer. And my brother's girlfriend paid the rent, like the 2,400 bucks. So I'd have a place for the summer. And so I had three months where I had a room in a studio apartment converted into a two bedroom. And the room was so small, my futon, when laid into a bed, would go to a V. So it was like a taco shell. It couldn't go flat. And that's where I slept. And that's where I moved here with a fucking two-year-old. And I would bring him back and forth on the train. I would go back. And it was like 50 bucks round trip to go there. There was a cheat where if I didn't have the 50

bucks, you could take a bus to Foxwood Casino. Foxwood Casino subsidized the cost of the bus so people go there to gamble. And it was close enough to where I lived where I could get there. So that was a cheaper way to do it. So I never stepped away from the kid or my role as a parent. Did you ever go to FAO Schwartz in the movie?

Yeah, when he was little, that's what we would do. We had so much fun. But that was like, as crazy as this sounds, that was way lower and way scarier financially than even when I was on welfare in Connecticut. There was something, like I lived in a trailer, I lived in a caravan, but I knew that that was there every night. And I knew there'd be, I worked in a restaurant, there was always food. And when I got to New York, there was like, I had nothing. I was like a bike messenger. And I remember being a bike messenger.

And like my first paycheck for a bike messenger was like 270 bucks. But they contact you on your personal cell phone. And my cell phone bill was like $50 more than my paycheck. And I'm like losing money. And it was just fucking scary. Sorry to interrupt. What are your aspirations at this point in your life story? Exactly what they were right, Exactly what they are right now.

I just wanted to make movies. That thing that would come into the city to talk to my brother Van about, he had bought the computer that you could edit video on. And I had the camcorder to make videos of my kid. WWF Brett the Hitman Hart credit card, max it out at Tweeter, which was like an electronic store in the fucking Crystal Mall, to buy a camcorder to film my kid. And Van had the computer, I had the camera. So we would like join forces and make little videos.

And I was like, this is all I wanna do for the rest of my life. So I'd like come in, like that was the dream, but instead I was like a bike messenger. And it was just rough. It was like really, really fucking brutal. Those were like the scariest months. When do you get the break?

Not even the big break. I mean, so like I met this artist who has like a studio near here, Tom Sachs and like I started working for him

for like 10 bucks an hour under the table doing like odd jobs and doing bullshit and that sort of was something. It was more than being a bike messenger. At least I knew

it was sort of a dependable thing which just wasn't much money and like i remember like one point in time he had this like um model girlfriend who's a friend of his or a friend of the studios or something and she needed a house sitter so i like went and stayed at her cushy apartment all i had to do was look after her two like fucking half cheetah half cat cats you know he's like those are cool very fancy fucking awful cats that destroy everything. And she was like, they each get two cans of this like fancy cat food. And she just never came back.

She was supposed to be back in three weeks, and it was like a month and a half later. And I was like, we're out of fucking cat food. And I just remember thinking it was like, it's the cats or me. I'm like, I'm not going hungry. So I was like, these cats went from getting two cans each a day, they would share one can of whatever the cheapest shit

that the fucking bodega would sell me. That's it. And let me tell you, these cats were fucking hungry. Because I didn't have, I ate the cat food equivalent. I would buy bags of rice and bags of pasta. It was so cheap. Yeah.

From, like, a calorie to dollar perspective, it was cheap. Yeah. And the cats would just watch me eat my plain pasta. And I'd be like, you ever seen a cat eat plain pasta? You know how hungry a cat has to be to eat plain pasta? Like Lady and the Tramp, they just, like, slurp it up. No, it was like, they would, like, fight and, like, scratch me. They would scratch me in bed.

And, like, that felt like that went on for a really long time. So New York is a struggle for you. You're living in chaos. That was the scariest year of my life, yeah. In the formative years of your life. Yeah. But you're kind of okay with it. You're almost comfortable in the chaos.

And then you come to New York, and that's the difficult part. That's when chaos was quite literally off the charts. And when I say off the charts, I mean imagine your scope of chaos. Welfare, uncertainty, no education, no skills, no discernible skills, no way to make a living. Yeah. And then you come into a city with no skills to transfer into this city. I couldn't even get a job washing dishes here because it was like. Too competitive.

And like, yeah, nobody knew. It was just I was too young and it was weird. Like I couldn't get the fucking gig. Yeah. And then like the really key part is that apartment that my brother's girlfriend rented for me was from June 1 to September 1. So it was three months it was up. September 1, like I had no place to stay. I met this like really cool friend of my brother's girlfriend.

She was like in his acting class. I had no place to stay. I met this really cool friend of my brother's girlfriend. She was in his acting class. This cool gay guy who had rich parents. And he's like, I've got this loft my dad's paying for. I'm running cash. If you give me 500 bucks a month, you can stay on my couch. And I was like, sweet. Moved into his place on Rector Street.

Dope apartment. There was three roommates in there. Me, a girl named Kamara, and him. And my 11th. Another kid? No. No. girl named Kamara and him and like my 11th. Another kid? No, no, no. That would have been, that probably would have been easier to cope with. But we lived on Rector Street.

I moved in on September 1, 2001. Oh. 10 days into my tenure, I was woken up because all the windows, glass blew in. Like our whole apartment exploded. Thank God your son wasn't with you. I was like, thank God he wasn't with me. I just remember panicking and putting on shorts.

They're up, what do we do? I was like, I'm getting the fuck out of here. They're like, do not leave the house. It's the worst thing you can do. I was like, alright, fuck that. I'm leaving. Good luck, guys. I bailed and I went outside. It was just like, PTSD is something I don't, especially because I'm friends with a lot of former soldiers. My kid brother's a veteran.

I don't use that lightly, but, like, for the proceeding four hours with the most vivid smells, tastes, colors, everything. Like stepped outside of my apartment and I just see someone frantically, not in uniform, a human, just fucking dressed like you or I dress, running around frantically with a stack of sheets this high. Taking the sheets with one hand, wringing it out, and then dropping them. And I'm like, what the fuck is that person doing? And as they drop them, they turn red. And I realize they're dropping those sheets on remains that had fallen. And when I realized that, my brain just, no, nothing can compute. Remains of human beings.

That had fallen from the plane. To mark them. No, to cover them for dignity's sake. Oh, sheets. I thought you were talking about sheets of loose-leaf paper. No, no, no, sheets and bed sheets. Oh, my God. White cloth bed sheets.

And my brain, now I couldn't understand that. Yeah. And then I definitely couldn't understand. And I just got on my bike, and I had my video camera, and I was trying to bike away. And I stopped, and I just see all these cops running in, and I see paper falling. And it could not make sense of it. And then like a fireman just starts screaming. I'm like, get out of here.

Like for my own safety, it was not being a jerk. And I was like, start biking away. And then just like, like heat, like you never imagine, just throws me off my bike. And that was the second, like second plane hitting. Like skin my knees, get up. And like race to Van's apartment on 14th Street and I get Van. And I was like, what do we do? And I was like, we gotta go to the hospital, and we gotta go help people. And we went to St. Vincent's, they sent Vincent's Rest in Peace,

this has been closed down and turned into overpriced condominiums. And we were out front there and helping, and I just remember no one knew what to do. And the cops showed up, and the cops were like, who's in charge, who's in charge. And I was like, what's the question? And they're like, what do we do? And I was like, I need you to shut down that street, shut down traffic here, shut down traffic here. Only let the ambulances through, create a way for the ambulance come through. You have flares, they're like, they're in the trunk. I was like, get the flares. And I was literally on New York One, like fucking commanding the situation as like a 20 year old outside of St. Vincent's

because there was just nothing. And I remember like the one thing I was like, is like, we have to start lining shit up and they're like, we're out of cots. And I was like, get rolling chairs, put sheets over, line them up. We like all this, they're like, everybody was ready and no one came.

Like there was no one to be saved. And I was like, that's where I was standing. Like standing like you know that view on six ave looking straight down at the world trade centers they're right there and i just like stand there in slow motion watching them fall and it was like cgi before cgi it was like so like this flower there was like a beauty to it that was like it was like you're again you're watching you like, I don't know what I'm seeing, but that's not real. It's too crazy for you to even comprehend. Yeah. Did you film any of it?

I mean, I have a couple shots of me biking away, and I've made videos about it, but I'm biking away, and the camera's behind me. At one point in time, I switch hands, and it crosses my face, and you go through it frame by frame, and you just see the terror on my face. So in any event, that was cool.

Do you think that moment affected the way you viewed creation or the way you lived your life after that? It is a traumatic event. How does that change you? I remember vividly calling my dad, I called my kid's mom crying. I was like, get him out of school.

She's like, he's fine. He's fine. I called my dad and my dad was like my kid's mom, like crying. I was like, get him out of school. She's like, Casey's fine. He's fine. Now, like I called my dad and my dad was like, it's time to come home. It's time to come back to Connecticut. And I just remember like being like, what are you talking about? Like, how dare you? I'm like, I'm not coming back. And then I called the husband of the cousins that we lived with because he was sort of a mentor. And he was like, it's time to come back. And I was like, I'm not coming back. And I was like, no, this is it. Like I can make it through this, then I'm good. Like I'm good.

And then that was when I got like the SRO and like I started to figure it out after that. Like it started to make sense after that. Yeah, my brother was, I was in high school at the time. I was going to high school, Baruch College Campus High School. So I was up on 23rd. My brother was going to middle school. There's a middle school a couple blocks away from the trade center. And he was like calling, he was like calling my parents because

all the kids got to use the pay phone to like call home and like looks out the window and he sees people jumping out and hitting the ground. And I always think about that for him specifically. Like imagine having a little anxiety as a kid and then seeing a literal worst case catastrophic situation happen. Informative years of your life. Sure. Like how that can affect you. How do you get past that? How do you?

I think about your brother a couple times a year with that story. That would be the most, I don't know how you overcome that, man. I just remember the energy that day. Like, I remember they wouldn't let us leave school. And then when we didn't, the first thing was we thought we were being attacked. Like, I thought there was going to be an army of some country, I don't know who the fuck, like, walking through the streets. And I was like, do we get guns? Like, I didn't know who the fuck, like walking through the streets. And I was like, do we get guns? Like, I didn't know what was going on.

Like, you can't even comprehend. Yeah, planes flew into the building. It just wasn't at any part of our culture. On purpose, as an attack, yeah. Yeah, it was incomprehensible. And then my friend Carlos shows up to school and he goes, he shows up late. And he had one more lateness before they

called his parents and he showed up late and he's like please don't call my parents uh and the teachers were like we this is your violation he goes no you don't understand like i saw a plane go hit the world trade center that's why i'm late. They weren't buying his excuse. They're going to do better than that. Bro, and it was just like, and then once we found out, we're like, and you still came to school? It was just this like crazy collection of events. You guys actually all met Carlos.

He came to the Radio City show. Yeah, that's right. I mean, just an unbelievable day, man. Yeah. What was the energy like in the city following that? Like the two weeks after? There were like fucking tanks. There weren't tanks, but there were Humvees, up-armored Humvees, military.

It was just wild. I just like that night, the night of September 11th. Quiet. It was quiet. It was like I've only been scared twice in my life. The only time in my life I can only remember laying in bed being genuinely scared. And that was one of those times. Only twice. My whole fucking life. I've slept at 21,000 feet. I've slept in the death zone. laying in bed being genuinely scared. And that was one of those times, like only twice,

my whole fucking life. I've slept at 21,000 feet. Like I've slept in the death zone. I've slept in fucking Afghanistan during the war where like we had woken up out of bed and we have to go climb into concrete tubes because the base is being attacked.

Like I've been in some fucked up situations before. And like slept on the streets of Prague with Dean. Like I've been in some fucked up situations and nothing. No fear whatsoever. Why that night? Because

you remember the F-16s? Fucking trying to fall asleep. Super low-flying F-16s and just the uncertainty. You're like, where does this end? There's no internet. There's no Twitter. That's the other thing. All you have is New York 1 and fucking CNN. And the way that we reflect on it, it's like, here are these

five isolated attacks and it's over. But at that point, we didn't know it was over. No, you have no idea. All planes are grounded. But you're here in F-16. You're like, wait a minute. Is that the next plane that's going to hit a fucking building? Or are they shooting something down? How do we get out of the city? My roommates

that were like, don't leave, don't leave. We didn't hear from them for five days. I was just about to ask what happened to them. So what happened was the fire department was doing door to door. They found them because after the buildings fell, all that broken glass just turned into dust. Also, keep in mind, for everybody watching at home, the area that you were in is ground zero adjacent. It's very. We're up against

the World Trade Center. Yeah. So you're getting hit by the dust. They got trapped. And their windows are already blown in. Yeah, so the fire department pulled them out,

put them on a boat that brought them to a school in New Jersey, but they didn't have cell phones or anything. So they called their loved ones, their parents, but it wasn't like

we were calling their parents. So we said no. And we finally figured out they were fine, but like, there's no, thank God I left their parents. So we said no. And we finally figured out they were fine, but like, there's no, thank God I left. Because that's us. That day was so scary for me because I was in school, high school in Broad Channel,

which is on Rockaway, but it's right against the water. And we can actually see the World Trade. We can see the buildings. And I know my mom worked really close. She worked in the courts. And so that day I couldn't get a hold of her at all. And then the trains were shut down. And it's like, by train, it's like an hour and a half just to get to Rockaway.

So, like, eventually, I finally got in contact with my mom maybe at 9 p.m. at night. She had to walk across Brooklyn Bridge, walk all through Brooklyn. I think she wasn't able to get into a car until maybe Rockway Boulevard, but she didn't get home until 11 p.m. that night. You hadn't heard from her? No. She came home covered in soot. I will say, though, now

we're 22 years later. It's like when people want to, when you need to show your, because you were born and raised here, but when people need, are you a New Yorker or not? Oh, yeah. I just pull out that 9-11 card. Yeah.

You are a fucking New Yorker. Yeah. If you like, that is just like the bond that that created with the city. Intense. Intense. Intense. There's a great story that I heard. So on 9-11, 2001, I've probably told this before.

There were unbelievable. The blueprint drop? Say again? I thought you were talking about Jay-Z's blueprint. No, no, no. One of the greatest albums. No, no, no. This is also another incredible.

So a few hits that day. No, so there was unbelievable waves that day. So all the New York City diehard surfers went out to Rockaway, and they surfed perfection. Six-foot barrels, clean offshore winds. And that's the other thing. If you actually look at the towers and the way that the wind is blowing off the towers, the wind is blowing to Brooklyn, right? And that's why Brooklyn was actually a little bit affected by something like the dust and stuff. And that means it's offshore for the island. So people are at Rockway, they're out, and a lot of these surfers took the train out to Rockway. So they have the best surf

session that they can possibly imagine. They're like, nothing can go wrong. This is the greatest day of my life. I've got the best ways of my life. And they get out of the water, they look, and they try to get on the subway, they can't. And then they see in the distance, the smoke coming off. Think about that. Think about the euphoria you're experiencing after surfing. I mean, obviously, you know, but anybody who surfs has known, like, you come out of the pool, you come out of the ocean, it's like- Yeah, cloud nine. Cloud nine. You were just floating. You were just in heaven. Yeah. And then seeing that and finding out and then not being able to get in touch with anybody, not being able to get back to the city, not being able to speak to your parents, your brothers, your kids.

My brother-in-law went to school downtown, had to run across a Brooklyn bridge. Then he had like a couple of friends fall, but he was in good shape back then. He was on the basketball team. So he'd have to like go back and pick them up and carry them however he could and like help them get across. It was a fucking insane thing. And then he was a senior, so I don't even think he had a graduation because he was just like, you're not doing well in school.

I thought this was a comedy podcast. No. We'll find some comedy at 9-11. Don't forget that Jay-Z thing. We had that. You know who had the blueprint. Al-Qaeda. But yes, okay, so you go through this traumatic event.

It's the only thing in your life that fucking scares you. What was the other time you were scared? I don't want to skip too far ahead. No, like when my daughter was sick, my baby daughter was sick. There was a moment, and it was like, that eclipsed everything else. But she's fine. But it was like, kids will fuck you up. Uncertainty.

And a thing that you can't control. Both events. Yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah. Because I don't know if you come across to me as someone who I feel as if you believe that you can control

most situations or get yourself out of most situations. Yeah. And you'll put yourself in quite naughty almost devious situations knowing that like I can probably wiggle my way out of here. Look, if you were stuck in like a Thai prison for smuggling heroin, you call me, I'll fucking get you out, one way or another.

I'll get you out. Most people, they won't put themselves in these kind of like, even watching the Oscars video, you're kind of just exploring. We had a lot of trouble for that. But most people wouldn't even put themselves back there because they go, oh, what if they kick me out? I'd get embarrassed. Do you know what happened? I don't think we showed in the video.

No, what happened? So we had passes and we had tickets to sit, but they gave us media passes so we could have, the only reason why we had those passes is so we're at the Academy Awards, it just meant we were allowed to have cameras. They issued the wrong passes to us. So our passes not only did that,

but when you put them up to the security gates, it said we had the same degree of access as the official Academy Award cameraman. We were allowed in places that Brad Pitt was not allowed. This is great. And I remember the moment where it was like we pushed it too far. After you win your Academy Award, they take you to this like winner's room up in an elevator. And it's this like small bar as big as your studio here. And it's just the people who have just won.

It's a place to decompress before you go talk to the media and all. And I'm in there. And sounds cool, but there was a little bit like once I realized what was going on that I was like. Meryl Streep's just looking at you like, what the fuck is this guy doing? But I was like, you know, Il streep's just looking at you like what the fuck is they were all like that's was it but i was like you know i didn't earn this and i just bounced like i left because i was like maybe someday awards are not part of my goal or dream in life but someday yeah but the point was everybody in there had earned it and i was like i'm a fucking interloper right now i didn't use any of the footage from up there even though i have it

and it's fucking nuts i earned it do you you mean like you didn't? I didn't win an Academy Award. I cheated my way into this room. But they also blew Harvey Weinstein to get in there. It's true, but I... That's not what they got the award for specifically. That was step one. That distinction was vivid then. Yes, yes.

That was his buying the camera, you know what I mean? But, yeah, what the fuck were you asking me? We were talking about blowing Harvey Weinstein. That was the other blueprint. Even Brad Pitt, bro. You don't know what Brad has to do to get on. But, no, no, we were talking about how you don't, most people in these situations, rooms they're maybe not supposed to be in, caution tape they're not supposed to pass, they won't. And it's not always like a fear of what will happen.

It's specifically a fear of like embarrassment of being kicked out, right? That just doesn't register for you at all. Yeah, but it's also maybe, but I think it's- Like what are you thinking? Yeah, but it's also maybe, but I think it's more of just like a, it comes down to agency. And it's like, you know, like my whole life, it was like, do as you're told, follow the rules and everything will be fine. And you just realize as you get older, that's a fucking lie. Everyone I know that was well behaved in high school, that got the job, they get fucking laid off. We're downsizing.

Fuck you, you're out. Like everybody who does that. So it's like my whole life, it's like there's always been a million sheep going in that direction. Everybody's saying, get in line with the sheep. But the more I step out of that,

the more success I have, the more happiness I find in everything I do. So like once you realize that and then you start to understand the parameters of the universe, you just start to see everything through that lens. Like a good example is yesterday. You run on the West side. Yeah. You know, on like 14th street, it's all fucked up because of the construction. And there's like, there's a bike path and a running path and they

mash them together at this bottleneck. And on a nice, warm, sunny day, it was like dangerous and shit. But the construction doesn't happen on Sunday. And I'm looking at thousands of people and like a biker's yelling at me. And I just walk, I stop, pause my watch. I walk over, I open the fucking gate to where the construction is. And now I have my own path for a mile. That's like, it's a little fucked up. You had to jump over some rebar, but I have my own path. And as I'm running down this path and I'm watching all these people putting themselves at risk and like running into, I'm like, not one of you fuckers,

not one of you saw this right here and thought to yourself, there's another way, there's a safer way, there's a better way. You just got in line with all the sheep. That's dope. So I think it's just like,

it comes down to agency. It comes down to like a willingness to look at the situation and forget about the right way or the way you were told, but just say, what's the best way? The way you're supposed to do it is to stay in the apartment right now. And it's like, okay, but says who? And it's like a very Jobsian philosophy is that like the world is just created by people that are no smarter than you. You grow up and you realize, no, like most of the people that make the rules are fucking idiots.

You ever seen an interview with Ted Cruz? You know what I mean? He makes the rules that we are supposed to live by. Yeah. Like, these are the people making the rules. Yeah. And so it's like, I don't, like, I believe in rules and I believe in laws and I think they keep society safe.

For the most part, if it's yellow, like, you can just push the gas and go right through it. Yeah. Has that ever gotten you in trouble Ken just pushed the gas and go right through it. Yeah. Has that ever gotten you in trouble? Yes. My license is suspended right now. Okay. Now, you have kids.

Yeah. You want your kids to do as you tell them. But at the same time, you don't want to raise children that are sheep. It's so much easier said than done. My older daughter, she's challenging. Really independent thinker. She's a fighter. She's so much easier said than done. So my older daughter is, she's challenging, really independent thinker, she's a fighter, she's gnarly. Which you like and you admire,

but it must drive you fucking crazy. It's tough, it's tough to, but my little daughter is an angel. She behaves so much, but every once in a while, we leave the two of them alone and we'll hear them fighting. And my older daughter is just like, you know, she's eight and little one's four.

She's outsmarting her, she's manipulating the little one. She's bullying the little one. And I'm like, I gotta go. And my wife's like, let them figure it out. And like, you just hear things get quiet and then you just hear, ah! And the older one comes running out. And little one just snapped, beat the shit out of her.

Yeah, let's go. And it's a little bit like, the kid's gonna be all right. Yeah. The kid's gonna be all right. So no, as a parent, it, yeah. Let's go. And it's a little bit like, the kid's gonna be all right. Yeah. The kid's gonna be all right. Yeah, yeah. So no, as a parent, it's challenging.

But like, I don't know, like my son, who's like a fucking angel, 4.0, like graduated college. Yeah. I mean,

this kid had a fucked up upbringing. Yeah. Like the most fucked up upbringing. Like parents separated from really early age. One lived in New York, one lived in Connecticut. Never knew where his home was. And like, he he and I lived on my, before we lived on my

grandmother's couch, we lived in the attic of my dad's office where we pinned up sheets to try to build a room. And it was uninsulated attic of this old ass building. And we were proper homeless. It was fucked up for a number of years. But he like, the kid's a star. Like graduated college, did everything right. He's like in fucking Indonesia right now in a yoga retreat. He's like doing his thing. So it's like parenting is this very malleable, mushy, gooey thing. And my biggest fear is like growing up, raising a kid who thinks that the way to success is following the rules and doing as they're told.

But then I parent them to follow the rules and do as they're told. And I don't know the answer to any of these questions. There's a, I won't say the person's name. I'll tell you afterwards. But he said something interesting. He had like kind of rough relationship with his pops. And his father said to him, he's a very successful dude. And his father goes to him, yeah, but look how successful you are.

See, this is what happens. Yeah, it was tough on you, but look how successful you are. And he said an interesting thing. He goes, I was successful despite you. Yeah. Yeah. I would have been successful no matter what. It'd be nice if I got some fucking love, but don't think you made me successful by being

shitty to me. You don't get that credit. I thought that was fire. Yeah. It's tough because my entire life, I'm 42 now, my entire life is just a vendetta against my seventh grade vice principal. Who you will say by name, right?

His name is Trent Alexopoulos. He's still alive. You want him to watch this. What didoulos. He's still alive. Yeah, yeah. And you want him to watch this. Yeah. Well, what did Trent do? He's just a fucking fuck. And if I ever saw him this day, I would call him out on it.

Now, he said something to you that was fucked. What was it? I mean, he said a bunch of things that were fucked to me. But, like, you know, the thing that he said to me the most, he was like, you're either going to be working at a gas station or you're going to be in prison. You know, like, saying that to a little kid. It's crazy. And I'll tell you now that, like, I work with a lot of kids. I've volunteered a lot I've liked I've got kids

fucking love kids like The most you don't say that to a kid to a 12 year old even a total it's fucked up You don't say that yeah, you lead them you guide them you fucking motivate them you inspire them Even if they're tough like you figure it out you'd be tough with them but you don't fucking disparage in the way that they used to fucking disparage me and i say that it was like him and i remember like my guidance counselor same bullshit just like putting me down and putting me down and like because i was acting out yeah and like the the antithesis of that the fucking furthest end of that spectrum is like Dr. Lou Gabordi, my 10th grade, 9th grade, 9th grade English teacher.

Like I remember like when I dropped out of school, I just stopped going to school. My sister got in touch with me and she's like, look, Mr. Gabordi, before he was a doctor, before he got his PhD, she was like, Mr. Gabordi says if you show up for the final, he'll pass you. And I was like, I'm not going back to school. And he comes back a few days later and she's like, look, he says, if you show up any day this week, because there's no school that week, he'll pass you. And I went in and I sat there and I just remember he was like, he like put the final in front of me, did my best. I don't know.

He probably gave me a C minus and he just was like, what's wrong with you? And I couldn't answer. And he like pushed me and he was like, what's going on? And I just broke down and started crying. But I'll never forget. He gave you some time. Yeah. He was interested in you.

He cared. Yeah, he cared. So fuck Trent Alexander. Do you think part of your excitement to have a kid was to be a better parent than all these people were for you, even if they weren't parents necessarily? I mean, maybe, but probably not. All right, well, I had a fun theory for a second. I mean, that would make sense.

That'd be a neat little bow to put on it. But no, I never thought in those terms. I never thought in those terms. After like 30 detentions and like six suspensions, do you sound like a difficult-ass kid? It wasn't easy. I invented some fun games too, like Pass the Stapler was one of my greatest games.

How do you play that? I mean, he's a pretty difficult adult, by the way. So Pass the Stapler. It was Pass the Stapler and take one and pass it down. What we'd do is like in the middle of class and the teacher is teaching the lesson, you just take the stapler and you just pass it to someone. And then someone would say, can you pass me the stapler? And we would keep that going the whole class.

So funny. And the teacher wouldn't know. But do you know how fucking funny that is? Yes. No one needed the stapler, and we would keep that going the whole class. So funny. And the teacher would know. But do you know how fucking funny that is? Yes. No one needed the stapler. I want to interview Trent Alexopoulos or whatever it is, and I can't wait for him to be like, yeah, the kid told me his dream was to work in a gas station

and to go to jail. I just believed in the fucking kid. I got weed from him. I thought jail was an option here. All right, guys. Let's take a break for a second because there's a lot of you out there that are small business owners. Your business is shipping stuff, and you're getting absolutely demolished on these shipping prices. And ShipStation has got your back.

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Worry less about the bottom line when you save money with ShipStation. Go to ShipStation.com. Use the code flagrant to sign up today for your free 60-day trial. That's ShipStation.com. Code flagrant. Now, let's get back to the show. All right, guys, we're going to take a break for a second. Some of y'all are in debt and you need to pay that off, and PDS Debt has got your back. Okay, how many of you wish that there was a better solution to pay off your debt? PDS Debt has customized zero-interest options for anyone struggling with credit cards, personal loans, collections, or medical bills. With rising interest rates and the cost of living at all time high,

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A lot of struggle. A lot of struggle. When do you taste success? And more importantly, do you know what to do with it? I mean, yeah. It was like the first gig that we ever got, it was Van and me. It was never just me. It was Van and me. The first gig was like this kind of fancy art collector. His name's Tom Healy.

I credit so much of what I've been able to do in life to him and his omnipotence. He's just this wonderful human being, very close to them to this day. His husband was turning 50. And he was like, I want to make a birthday video for my husband we're going to play it at his his birthday dinner and i was like well i can do that van and i yeah we can nail that for you and he's like great let me know how much it costs so van and i met we're like it's probably cost us like we're gonna need four dv tapes um and maybe a new tripod. So that's like, it's going to cost us like 90 bucks to make. So what do we charge him? And we decided on $5,000 because if he said he'd give us a thousand, we're like, that's a win.

Yeah. So we're like, we can do it for five thousand. He's like, done. Just to give you some context, the dinner was at Le Cirque. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like that is less than like— He's dropping that on a bottle.

Yeah, exactly. Like, he's dropping that on a bottle, no question. Very, very wealthy couple. Fred had built a hundred million, multiple hundred million dollar businesses. So then he's like, great, here are the list of people to interview and just call these names and we'll set up those interviews. And the list of people to interview are like Bill Clinton names and we'll set up those interviews and the list of people that are sure like bill clinton like heads of state like fucking business and then they're like oh shit and we like knocked that out of the park like bill clinton was the best wait you got to interview bill yeah and that was he had just left the white house he was at his

office in harlem and i remember we went up there we had this really fucking funny idea um f, the guy whose birthday it was, he ran a company called Lillian Vernon. Lillian Vernon was the biggest mail order catalog in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s. That was his mother. He built that company. And she was a huge donor to Bill Clinton. So our idea was that we give him a T-shirt to Bill Clinton, to President Clinton, that says, Fred Hochberg turned 50 and all I got was this stupid t-shirt from Lillian Vernon. That's great.

But we get there and his handlers are like, you want to do what now? And we're like, we have an idea. And they're like, no ideas. You can give me your script. And I was like, what do you mean script? And she's like, the script we received is it says, happy birthday, Fred. I can't believe you made it to 50. That's what we've approved. You have a different

script and we're like, nope. We'll do that. That's fine. She's like, okay. And she was very tough with us. She leaves. Game time. Yeah. Her laptop's open. Teleprompter's up. Ron Burgundy. Yeah, delete

everything. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Not thinking about the repercussions of your actions. Quit the app, shut everything down. He comes in. And he sits down. We're like, good to see you, Mr. President. We sit down. Secret Service is like, these fucking guys.

Who the fuck are they? We had this little rinky-dink camera. We didn't have a teleprompter. She had to have their teleprompter. And she's sitting there. I just remember her like. You're interviewing the president on the camera you bought when you were flat broke at like 16 years old.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We didn't have a lavalier mic. We just had the onboard and she's like, I'm sorry, Mr. President. And he's like, Jessica, I gotta get out of here. And I was like,

Mr. President, I have an idea. And like went right at him. And I just remember like, I remember Secret Service like jumping up at me. Yeah, yeah. And like I like run across my hand out and I was like, here's the idea. And I was like, we made you this.

And he was like, boys, I love it. You're recording? And we're like, yep. And he one-hit, one-take wonder fucking nails it. But the video was like a big hit at the dinner. We played at the dinner. Everybody fucking loved it. The president was there.

He loved it. It was everyone. I need to pause. That is so dumb. Because this is something that you keep doing in your life, and it's very intriguing to me. The president was there. He loved it. Like it was everywhere. I need to pause because this is something that you keep doing in your life and it's very intriguing to me. It's a really good point. The moments where

you could get in trouble or you're doing something naughty, there could be repercussions, you could be spanked. You just go for it constantly. Do you think at all in that moment what could happen if this doesn't go right?

No. You're just so locked into what could happen if it does go right. I never think about if it goes wrong. There's never even a consideration. Okay. That's a superpower. I'm not lying to you. That's a superpower.

Okay. Okay. It doesn't even, there's no, that doesn't even exist. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, what a huge competitive advantage. And you've just always had that your whole life? Yeah. Okay. So you get Clinton, Clinton, all-time charisma guy or what? Like walks in. I mean, this is when he was like young and like, holy, he's this swagger.

He had just left the office. He just left the office. And if you remember, like, remember what a big deal it was that he had his office in Harlem. Harlem was like coming up then. It was beautiful. And like, he loved. And it brought down the house. So was he there for the actual birthday too? Yes, yes. So everybody's coming up to him. That's so hilarious. Yeah, you were the hit of the movie, the whole thing.

And then Tom, because he's so great, he introduced us to the whole party. These are the guys that made the video. And it was a lot of art people there. And a lot of these art collectors came. They're like, what do you do? What are you guys doing? And then Van collectors come there like, what do you do? Like, what are you guys doing? Then Van and I were like, we went into the fine art world and we started making videos

and then calling them fine art. And we didn't know when like, sure, why the fuck not? And we did make a lot of videos that I think are now art, but we don't know what we're doing. And we would just make them since all we could afford to make like we did one, it was like a really close up video of building a little log cabin, if you can imagine that, of matchsticks. But we're building it on top of an electric burner.

So at some point in time, the whole thing's gonna combust. And it was this beautiful thing. We did another one where it's like, if you take mothballs and you put them in vinegar, the mothballs sink, but then bubbles go on them and then they rise, the bubbles pop, and then they fall, and they start dancing. Art. And we did a bunch of those.

We learned all of those from a book called Mr. Wizard's World's Science Experiments You Can Do at Home. Great book. And we made them, and we called that series of videos Science Experiments. Great title. And we, like an art gallerist was like, I'd like to show that. Hilarious. And he showed it at Miami Art Basel, like 2002 or 2003,

whatever. And it was like a big hit. And we like sold them. We like sold limited edition DVDs. You're the first NFT. Yes. You fucking created NFTs? And we sold like,

and then we took stills from it and blew them up. Yeah. And we sold those. And like where we got the money to like blow up those stills, that same like wonderful, incredible human being, Tom Healy, was like, I will bankroll your art career. And he did.

We did an art show at his house. And like people like came and saw our pictures and they bought those. And this wasn't a lot of money, but this was like enough money. Enough to keep it going. Yeah. And I remember then like this is when we got a studio. This was 2002, I think, maybe 2003. We got a studio that I'm in now to this day.

And we went there and I was like, I can afford $500. And she was like, let me show you, you can get for $500. And I remember it was like this little old Chinese woman, because it's in Chinatown. And she had toilet paper coming out of her like panties, going down and like attached to her foot. And like the person that I was with, Tom Healy, was like looking at these places, he just kept nudging me.

And I'm like, I'm not, there's no way I'm going to tell her. And she showed us all these spaces and they were all awful, no windows. And she's like, I have one with windows. And she showed it to us, it was three times the budget. And Tom Healy was like, you have to take this place. And I was like, if we take this place, we have 30 days until we're completely out of money. And he's like, you'll figure it out. And I was like, okay.

So he co-signed the lease, got the place. So the one time you thought about consequences, that guy next to you was like, don't think about it. Yeah, I mean, it was also just like,

it was less about the consideration of the consequences, more just being practical. It was like, I'm not, you know, like I was thinking 500 bucks and we're good for like three or four months

to figure out how to make our next dollar. And we have 30 days. And it was like, fuck or fight, man. It was like guns at the back of your head. What are you going to do? And? Fucking figure it out.

How'd you figure it out? That's when like we started selling those paintings. We started doing like, turn that into something else, making more art. People liked the art. Can you do a video project for me? Yeah.

I mean like we started doing videos. Like I want to work for Nike. I want to work for this brand. Like remember Truth, the anti-smoking campaign that was like big in the early 2000s? Like, they wouldn't hire us. We just started making

our own Truth videos. Like, companies that we wanted to work with that would never hire us, we just would make the fucking commercials and put them on our website and pretend that they had hired us. That's how I got my first job for Nike.

The Nike video is fantastic. But the Nike video you're talking about happened 10 years later. No. So you make a fake Nike. A whole bunch of fake Nike videos. That's how Nike first learned about us. And the first Nike video I ever got was a guy who had a tiny discretionary budget. And he's like, I like your fake Nike videos. We're doing a little meetup in the East Village. Would you make a video for that meetup? And I was like, fuck yeah, I'll make that. Where was the meetup?

I don't remember. This was like 2005, 2006, but it was at a bike store. Go, go, go, go. They were doing like an event, and I made them this like five minute Nike video, and they played it there, and like, believe me, from that moment forward, when people were like, what do you do for a living? I was like, I make Nike commercials.

So you've become commercially successful. In my head, in reality, I had made one $5,000 Nike video. Was it scratching the crate of itch? It's not filmmaking, but it is. Yeah, I mean, the idea that someone would pay me to do anything with a camera is so, I mean. Mind-boggling. Yeah, someone's going to write you a check to tell a joke.

That's crazy. When your whole life, you're like, no i will literally pay yeah to do like i used to drive around to deliver vhs tapes of my videos so people would watch them yeah um so yeah i was like so it was amazing and like that just picked up momentum like there was just one opportunity led to another and there were ups and downs or times where then i would get like i remember we got a microsoft job when they were trying to compete with YouTube. And it was $200,000, maybe it was $100,000, but it was something outrageous.

And we knocked it out of the park. And it was like a home run. They put it on their Microsoft version of YouTube at the time. So we saw it. But it was like that, we were fucking flush. We moved into better apartments. I remember I went out to eat a bunch of times. And like four months later it was like

what the fuck are we going to eat now so it was like that went on for a very long time did you ever have any failures in that strip like someone hit you up you do the commercial yeah and it depends on how you define failures I remember like we got a music video and I remember like went to task

to land this music video like I did everything I could it was on easy ease label it was like this cool rock band they were bringing up we like I did everything and the shoot was a fucking disaster and the video objectively sucked like we just it sucked we did not do a good job and then and that just that hurt and then on top of that, the producer stole all of the budget. He's some two-bit fucking producer from North Carolina, Virginia, where we shot it. And it was like he stole the whole budget. And that was tough.

And how did you, the next time you have your next job, not reminisce on the pain and not fear feeling better? It was like a fucking fuck or fight where they go back to Connecticut, wash dishes. Yeah. You know, it was like. Okay. So at what point do you guys turn the camera on yourselves? When do you invent vlogging? Do people know that you guys invented that? No, I don't think.

I mean, they know that you're the most popular person, but I truly believe that style of filmmaking. Yeah. What was interesting is like, so our HBO show, which is kind of like the first really cataclysmic break for us. That was the first like truly life-changing. And how the HBO show came together is we had met a bunch of people. One of the people we met was this super cool guy. You know Nantucket Nectar's The Juice? Yeah.

You know, it's like Tom and Tom, The Juice guys. The fancy Snapple. Well, a different guy, not the Tom from the art career earlier. This guy named Tom Scott, another just incredible human being, had just sold that company for a lot of money. And he started a small cable access TV channel. And he's like, make content for us. And we're like, hell yeah.

And he was like, I'm opening up a cable access in Aspen, Colorado. Will you go to Aspen and make videos about it? And I was like, fuck yeah, I'll go there and make videos about it. And he gave us a budget of $20,000 and he wanted 10 videos for $20,000 which we were like, fuck, that's wonderful. The only thing we knew about Aspen is what we learned from the movie

Dumb and Dumber. So instead of going to Aspen and making videos, we bought a 1985 Ford Econoline van and two minibikes that we put in the back and we drove there. And we made a video that was like a fucking

dumb and dumber video of us traveling there. Like there's all these little vignettes, like at the beginning, how to fucking cheat the DMV to register a car that has no business being registered. Then like car breaks down on the highways, we go to our mini bikes, like just this wild adventure. And he was like, gave us no creative parameters, except he's like, look, this is a respectable channel. Please be responsible here.

So we called it the Responsibility Tour. Maybe we called it the Respectability Tour. I don't remember. Van says it's the greatest thing we ever made together. But that was effectively vlogging. It was like really in its infancy. And he loved that we made that, even though no one on his cable access channel had any fucking clue what to do with it. Are you familiar with the term gonzo journalism?

Yeah, we were big. I'm a huge fan of Hunter Thompson, like huge. I've read every one of his books. That's what I... Yeah. We went there, like he was still alive the first time we went there. And it was like, didn't get to meet him, tried. But like, that was like, he was a big part of that and why we were doing that. Putting yourself and making yourself, you know, the, the forefront of what you're writing about and experiencing it. And I think that's what you guys have done with vlogging so brilliantly. Yeah.

Use your experience as sort of the catalyst for that. Did you guys kind of realize through shooting yourself that you're more interesting than a lot of the subjects that you were shooting before? It was more like the only way we, and this is true to this day, the only way I know how to communicate interestingness is by sharing how I experience that interestingness. I don't know. I can't tell you that that energy drink is good. I can tell you why I like that energy drink. And it'll be compelling.

But I can't tell you that it's good. Every time I've tried it, I've fucking failed. But that guy, the cable access guy loved it. And he was like, let's do something big together. And he was thinking a feature film. And Van and I were like, look, all we know how to do is make these little videos. Yeah. So I went to him and I was like, look, give us this much money and it will cover all of our expenses.

And for a year, all we'll do is make little videos. And he was like, I don't know what that means, but sure. It was not a lot of money. And that's what we did for the year. And like six months into it, I remember he's like, I'm going to bring over a friend to see what you guys have done. And the friend that he brought over was Doug Lyman. Oh, wow. Doug Lyman, who made, you know, Swingers, one of my favorite movies ever, but he also made Born Identity. He's a wildly successful, huge big deal filmmaker. And he watches it. And Doug is not an emotive guy.

You don't know. And he's watching it. Like when he's watching the screen, we're just staring at him. And we're like, he does not like this. And when it's over, he stops. And he sort of is quiet. And he turns to Tom, who just bankrolled this shit. And he's like, you've got something here. Oh, wow.

And Van and I were like, what? And he was like, this is a TV show. And we're like, oh, okay. So we started making everything 22 minutes. We put a tail credits. We put a thing at the beginning. And when we had six of those, we went out to LA. And we just started showing it to people.

And most people were like, what the fuck is this? I remember we met with like one channel. And they were like, we can put this on our website. And this is 2007. We're like, bitch. Nobody looked at our website. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're like, we can put this on our website. And this is 2007. Nobody looks at a website. Yeah. No, thanks.

That's not right. And so like FX really liked it. They just signed. It's always sunny in Philadelphia. They had one season. It was a huge hit. We liked FX. They're like, we like it.

Like there's something we can do with this. We don't know how we're going to put this on TV, but maybe. And then we came back and our producer, Christine called and she's like, HBO really likes this. And we're like, you're fucking kidding me. Wow.

Like HBO, like the greatest channel in the universe. 2007. This is Sopranos. This is Sex and the City. But also outside of scripted, real sex. This was like the salad days of HBO. Yeah, but they were dabbling in a lot of unscripted content. There was docu-style.

It was amazing. It was so next level what they were putting out. Yeah. So we went back and we met with them. And I just remember that fucking meeting with them. It was gnarly. Their head of content, she had a chair like yours. And the couch that we sat in was like this bed, no, so you sit with your like knees up. You just feel

It's such a fucking LA move and I remember we get there and her assistant was like I get either of you anything before she Comes in and then was like ham and cheese omelet chocolate milkshake and she was like I was thinking water and he's like that's fine, too Great that's great. And yeah, and then they bought the show for a couple million dollars, and it was like the greatest thing ever. Insane. Not so much. Then they fired the head of content that bought our show, fired her, like a week later.

They still went through the deal, probably because they had to. The new head of content didn't get our show, shelved it, nobody saw it. So we tell everybody we know we sold it, it's like a big deal. Oh, fuck. Oh, so it never aired? For two years it didn't get our show, shelved it, nobody saw it. So we tell everybody we know we sold it, it's like a big deal. And they're like- Oh, so it never aired?

For two years it didn't air. And then finally like we're gonna air it and they gave us like a $0 marketing budget and they aired it on Friday nights at midnight. And I just remember like, imagine if you could only watch my YouTube video. Imagine if people could only watch this podcast Friday nights at midnight.

And if they didn't tune in for that window, they didn't get to see this. And it was fucking soul crushing. It was just devastating. And in that window too, Van and I kind of went our different ways. I wanted to go more commercial. The opportunities at that point in time to really make money were, you know, like they were coming from everywhere. And I wanted to take advantage of that. Van was not into that. So he moved to L.A. They were coming from everywhere and I wanted to take advantage of that. Van was not into that. So he moved to LA to focus on his art. We kind of were

on our own then. And it was tough. I made another show that was like the HBO show and I brought it to MTV and they loved it. We want to do this, but we're not sure if it works. Obviously you love your brother a lot and you're still close, but was that a contentious point for y'all? It was tough. It was really tough. Yeah. It was super, super, super duper, really hard. Why could you guys create? I don't see you being able to create with anybody else telling you what to do. Why with him does it work? Just because I just looked up to him so much. So it was just admiration? Completely, completely. Interesting. So you think everyone else sucks? I mean, I don't trust my ability to work with anyone else. I recognize talent everywhere.

But Van was just sort of a genius. It was very easy for me to follow. But it got to a point where it was like, you know, we're in our 30s. We're still young. But I have a fucking kid. Yeah. And, like, it's fun being broke and young. Like, it's cool.

And Van, for what it's worth, like, when we came back together and got really close again is when he had a kid. Ah. He started to understand. Yeah, and for the first time in his life, he's like, you know, like, now it's time for me to figure out how to make a living off of my creativity. And, like, I stepped in and shared with him what I had learned. Right. So it was this really funny sort of full circle yin and yang situation. Yeah.

That was very poetic. And, like, we're as close now as we've ever been. So it was this really funny sort of full circle yin and yang situation. Yeah. That was very poetic. And like we're as close now as we've ever been. But it was definitely challenging. But I brought the show to MTV. They fucking loved it. But they're like, we don't know how this works on TV. And out of that frustration. You did it.

Yeah, I just was like, fuck it then. I went on YouTube. And like a year later, my YouTube channel was doing more views in any one 24-hour period than like every fucking Viacom property that was out have New Yorkers shared with you how we feel you

represented this city do you feel like New Yorkers you kind of feel like ours I know this is an odd thing to say but you kind of feel like ours not that we own you, but that's our guy. There's a great moment in a Spider-Man movie that I love. I don't know which one it is. And it's when Spider-Man is on the subway and he's trying to stop the subway from

going off of like this, you know, fake subway track into the water. And he's shooting these like ropes out and he's basically like webs or whatever. Like he's trying these ropes out, and he's basically like- Webs. Webs or whatever. He's trying to stop the train, and he's about to fall off. And I forget, Doc Doc or something like that is trying to take off his mask. And all these New Yorkers in the subway step to him because they're like, no, that's our guy. You know what I mean? Yeah, I just feel like you represented the magic of the city so well.

And it is fucking magical. And I think that people don't really understand that like your community is who you choose it to be. Whether if it's Marlon, the guy who's delivering your packages or the guy that you meet at the fucking diner. I used to see my father, who I admire more than anything in the world, create a community from nothing. And I think that's the thing a lot of people that don't grow up here don't get. It's you get to cook your community, and you fucking did it. It's impossible to get if you don't experience it. Because when we moved to LA, we tried to be with family. That's why we moved. All of our family was in LA. My brother, Van, his kid, his wife, like my sister, my other brother, my sister-in-law, their kids, my in-laws, everyone's in LA in a very small area. But? It was like the way I described, I felt like a hollow

man. I felt like a shell of a human being. I also felt like a fucking Judas when COVID happened that I wasn't here. I felt like a fucking, like a, like I felt like such a two timings, like. What do you mean? What do you mean by that? No, this is, this is. Because fucking New York city was shit on man. New York city was shit on during that time. And fuck you. Like I know what the reality of the city was like then. And I had a unique ability to communicate that. Like I could have used my, I would have used every power, every outlet I had to say,

no, no, no, no, no. Everything you're seeing is a fucking lie. Like where Marjorie Taylor, whatever her name is on fucking Tucker talking about how fucked up this city is. Fuck you. That is not what this city is. You want to know what this city is?

Go to any subway station, any subway station in all five boroughs, push your fucking stroller up to the stairs. Watch what this city is. You want to know what this city is? Go to any subway station, any subway station in all five boroughs. Push your fucking stroller up to the stairs. Watch what happens. Yeah, they'll steal your kid. You will last one fucking second in someone. Yeah. Whether it's like some fucking 300-pound homeless guy, some old lady.

Someone's going to pick up that stroller. Yeah. They're going to fucking help you. Of course, we got criminals. We have nine fucking million people here. Yes. Some of them are animals. Yes. But this city is like that thing. Yeah. And it's like my affinity that like fucking Tom Hanks and big, the little kid with the fucking poster page 57 in my fifth grade social

studies book, which was a two page bleed of the New York city skyline that has never faded. My entire cell phone is pictures of the city. More pictures of this city than of my children. My wife is like, please stop talking about the city. It's all I talk about. Do you know how they say immigrants love America more than Americans many times? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel the same way with my own mother. And sometimes it takes someone from the outside to observe the greatness of the city.

And you coming here at a young enough age where it could kind of mold your identity, but still having enough time away from it where you got to lust over it and dream about it. And I still do. It is not faded. Could you do 800 days in a row in LA? No. There's no way. There's just not. I can't exist.

My wife right now is like, her in-laws are coming to watch our kids. She's going to be mad at me when she sees this. And it's like four days. We can go anywhere in the world, Casey. Romantic trip. And I'm like, fuck, I got to leave the city, man. Fuck. I don't want to leave.

This, like it doesn't get better than this. When I was a little kid, we'd go to like family vacations or whatever. And I remember like being on the airplane so upset because we have to go back home and I hate it as a grand, this is heaven. I wake up every day, I woke up at 4.30 this morning. I do it every fucking day, you know why? So I can go run for hours through the city by myself. I have a game I play all winter long.

The game is to try to get from one end of the Brooklyn Bridge to the other without seeing a single person. Do you know how hard that is? Do you know how fucking hard that is? How have you done it? Yes, I did it three times this winter. That morning was the bomb cyclone

where it was 20 below zero and they had warnings about not going outside. I fucking ran 10 miles because no one else was on the bridge that morning. Crazy. In the snow, in the pouring rain. I fucking love it. I was out this morning,

13 miles this morning, at 4.30 in the morning. This city is like, I cannot get enough of it. It is like fucking heroin. And I want it pumped directly into my veins and it doesn't fade. Like when we moved back here last September and I was riding my skateboard around and it was just like, I was like barely holding it together. And like not one person, but like the fourth person that yelled out the king of New York. The tears were just fucking...

I was just like, all my sunglasses just trying to hide it. I couldn't hold it together, man. It is like a woman, a partner, something you've wanted your whole life. And then you just fucking get it, and it's better than you imagined. There's no word, there's no video I can make that shows you how good this city is. You still want to move? I love living in a trailer park, so I get it.

It's not my persistence. Anything that I uniquely have, everything I have was given to me from this city. Everything. I had nothing when I came here. Fucking nothing. All I had was $1,200 in debt. $2,400 in debt to my brother's girlfriend for that fucking but that's all I had when I came here nothing

Everything I have including my fucked-up car is because of this city What do you think is the most misunderstood thing about New York? Especially for the people that I think it's the people yeah You know it's like Los Angeles is a sunny place for shady people I think it's the people. You know, it's like Los Angeles is a sunny place for shady people. And I think New York City is like people are fucking harsh on the outside and they're so good on the inside. And personally, I think there's honesty in that trust.

Like, yeah, New Yorkers will fucking stab you in the face, but they'll do it while making eye contact with you. You know, there's such a truth to that. You know what you're getting with people. And when you multiply that to 9 million, like there are some people here that were born here. Maybe they don't want to be here. There are some people here that like they're here by chance. I get. But most of the people, especially the people, the fortunate people like all of us that we get to interact with, they're here because they fucking want to be here. How many people have you met that was like, I didn't know where I wanted to go after college. So I was just sort of walked by New York city and I was like, yeah, I love living in a 200 square foot rat infested apartment

for $3,800 a month. I'm going to stay here forever. No, everybody is like, I fucking fought to be here. That's the thing that I don't think a lot of people understand when people who aren't from New York, they criticize like the apartment size and the stuff in New York. They're like, why would I want to live in a 600 squaresquare-foot apartment with mice and rats or whatever? And it's like, that's how dope this city is. You're willing to live with rats and cockroaches in a tiny apartment that doesn't have an oven because of what's around it. Unintended conflict. My apartment was so shitty, the one with the taco that I would just

sit on my stoop I didn't know anybody in the city I knew one person my brother Van he had to grow up I couldn't spend all of his time

I'd sit on the stoop guess what happens when you sit on the stoop people walk by they say hi you meet people you make friends if I had a nice apartment

with a TV I wouldn't have been on the stoop no the way I describe it the way when I visualize it in my head it's like one of those fucking medieval towns

or like cities or buildings with like the tallest fence with a moat with alligators. And if you want to get into that city, you got to swim across that moat and the fucking crocodiles tear off all your clothes and you got to climb that fence.

There's arrows being shot at you. You're fucking fucked up. You got to leave everything you've got just to get to the top of that fence. And when you finally fall over on the other side, you stand up and you're like beat up, covered in mud, bloodied. You're stripped naked. You've got nothing. finally fall over on the other side, you stand up and you're like beat up, covered in mud, bloodied, you're stripped naked, you've got nothing

and you're on the inside. And if you can fucking figure it out from there, then you get to be here. And that at scale is what New York City, every person you walk by, every fucking waiter, every bartender, every garbage person, like fucking everyone.

Every cop, every person you, every garbage person, like fucking everyone. Every cop, every person you meet is a part of that. Fucking Marlon the delivery guy, everyone. It's incredible. Would you change anything? I mean, you know, I like the subway's safe. They're working on it.

They are. You know, everybody loves to shit on the NYPD. It's like, do you not realize that the only thing standing between us and fucking anarchy is the New York City Police Department? Yes, they need to be better. With criminal justice, policing, we need to work at that to make it better. Without them, this is just anarchy. But no, the city to me just, I don't ever remember it feeling this good. Really?

Yeah, because Bloomberg had it nicer, cleaner, safer. like it's the city to me just i don't ever remember it feeling this good really yeah because bloomberg had it nicer cleaner safer yeah but every cool place we know was chased out and replaced by a fucking chase bank and a duane reed yeah every one of them but then covid fucked that up good yeah and now it's a little bit nasty yeah but all those places all those duane reeds but we're used to nasty that's the thing. I don't like nasty. That's not shocking to people who've been here for 20, 30 years.

No, but now we get the cool restaurants. Exactly. We get the cool shops. Do you wish Times Square was seedier? I mean, I don't know, about 14th Street.

Okay, fair. But back in the day, people were just like, oh yeah, Times Square was shitty and there was crime and this neighborhood was run down. Do you miss that grittiness?

Yeah. I don't think people realize how detached New Yorkers are from Times Square. It's really not a place that we go to. When people go, oh, Times Square isn't what it used to be. It's like in the 70s. I spend more time in Cleveland than I do in Times Square.

Times Square can look however it wants to look. They can put M&M's there. We don't give a fuck. It's like when Houston street charts start changing. That's when we're like, whoa, what's happening over here? Or like the Lower. Yeah. It's like when, it's like when Houston street charts starts changing, that's when we're like, Whoa, Whoa, what's happening over here? We're like the Lower East side was this fun little edgy place. And now it's a little bit more like yuppie and like big high rises and stuff. And I think that's where, that's where there's often like pushback. But another thing I learned,

I mean, I grew up in the East village. I saw my neighborhood turnover so much. That was my expectation of New York. It was turnover. So I don't get angry when I see neighborhoods change because I was constantly used to change. I saw my neighbor go from drug haven to Japanese restaurants. I don't know what those things have in common. It happened fast. I remember. But quick. Quick, real quick. Like sex stores, buy weed, Japanese restaurants. Done. When we take the kids out, we go almost exclusively to Chinatown. Because Chinatown is kind of one of the last best. It's the only thing that doesn't change.

And I think it's because whatever fucking Chinese mafia situation is holding it down. Locked down. They're like, nah, we're cool. Also, people are afraid to go into business there. Yeah, yeah. Gentrify somewhere else. Exactly. You can open up your fucking bookstore in the East Village or Alphabet City.

Don't go near Chinatown. You'll get fucked up. I love Chinatown. Plus, they're building one of the biggest prisons in the country in China. Central? The tombs? Central Bookings. They're tearing it down.

Wait, they're building a new one? No, they're building a mega prison there. For whom? They're fucking getting rid of... Prisoners. For like a holding situation. They're trying to get rid of or at least marginalize Rikers.

And to do that, they're building new fucking... It's not a prison, like a jail. In all five boroughs. He's mega complex. So you get rid of right. The one that we're getting is three blocks from here, which is fine by me. I'd rather if it wasn't, but I get it.

The only thing that bothers me is during this five years of construction, it's fucking up all my restaurants, man. Not trying center had to go out of business. Not trying one says hang around by a thread. Poor guy. Yeah, there's a, there's, they're thinking about building a halfway house. This is kind of an interesting thing that's happening in Soho. I saw that. This is so funny.

So in Soho, there's a guy who wants to sell his building, and he owns a building in like prime Soho, okay? And he wants way over the asking price, and nobody's willing to pay for it. way over the asking price and nobody's willing to pay for it. So he's essentially holding his neighbors hostage by threatening to sell his whole building to the city where they will then build a halfway house for violent criminals, rape, murder, assault. Now, all of the neighbors who have dumped millions into their Soho lofts are now going, whoa, what do you mean? Okay, we'll pay you 60 million even though the buildings were 12 or whatever the fuck it is because of the neighbors who have dumped millions into their Soho lofts are now going, whoa, whoa, what do you mean? Okay, we'll pay you $60 million even though the buildings were $12 or whatever the fuck it is because the second that

halfway house goes up, the greatest deal in all of New York City right now, and it's a risk, it is a loft on fucking Worcester Street. They're up right now and they are half the price that they should be because everybody on that street is trying to get out because they think the halfway house is terrifying. And the city wants

it. Of course. The city wants that coverage. They can't just keep building, and I have mixed emotions about this, mainly because I'm like a fucking rich white guy who lives in one of these safe neighborhoods, but they can't just be building these homeless shelters and halfway houses in outer boroughs.

I get it. It's not fair. What's it? NIMBY? Not in my backyard. NIMBY is not in my backyard. Not in my backyard. So, like, cool. Why don't we just build one in literally the most expensive real estate per square foot in the world? In the world.

Imagine going from prison to Soho. You're having, like, spritzes at Felix every weekend. You're like, this is the good life. Maybe that does rehab them the best. What if they see the good life And they're like I don't want to do crime I just want to be gay They can work at one of the restaurants

They're fucking dishwashing They meet people Who knows This might be Turn the whole thing around I love that idea We might have to get into a halfway house I might pick up a drug addiction

Just to fucking pop in there Prime real estate Prime real estate So you'll never leave New York again I'm fucking dying here I am never leaving this city I'm never leaving this city and I'll say that like no regrets about the three years we spent away

because it's like the thing that I like to liken it to is my wife and I we met and fell in love immediately and then like had a really tumultuous couple of years. We broke up. We spent 18 months apart, dated other people. And then we came back together. And we often reflect on the fact that had we not done that, I don't think we would have realized that we can't be with anybody else. Very romantic. And had I not moved away to LA,

which is like the beach, family, all these really amazing things, great weather. I don't think I would have appreciated New York as much as I do now. Dude, when we were during the pandemic for four months, we moved down to Miami. And it was amazing that the city was so welcoming. People are so incredible there. And I couldn't write a joke, man. And I was like, why can't I write a joke? And it was a really interesting, it was a really interesting, just like, I guess this awareness I started to have about like where my comedy often comes from, but I needed to be removed from the city to kind of get it. Yeah. So like coming back into it and starting to like feel the things again, like seeing somebody be really upset over something

that I didn't think that they needed to be upset about, and immediately my brain starts churning. I'm like, ooh, there's the material. There it is. What can I antagonize? What can I bother people? I love my IME, and they fucking welcomed us with open arms, and it was incredible.

I don't regret going down at all, but there's something about this city that inspires creation, man. I can't step outside. I step outside of an office, it's punched in the face with a story. Immediately. What is a story for you? Anything that's an interestingness in any capacity.

Break down a story. Because that's, I think, one of the competitive advantages you have over a lot of the people in your field. And we talked about the first day that we met when we went out surfing. And it's the importance of story. And understanding the difference between

just an adventure and a story. Yeah, so look, there are rules in the universe. And like a story is three acts, a beginning, a middle, and an end. You can apply that to anything. You can apply that to Jack and Jill. You can apply that to fucking Godfather. There's a beginning, a middle, and an end.

There's a setup, a conflict, and a resolution. That is every story that you've ever been told. If it doesn't contain those three parts, it wasn't a story. Setup, conflict, resolution. Yeah. Let's go through one of you. That's a cup of water. That is not a story. I was thirsty. I walked around your space. I got a cup of water. That's a story. Setup, conflict, resolution. There's just three acts. And so with me, with every movie I make, I try to make sure that that's there. And it's not always as deliberate. Like, I'm not conscious about it. I'm not like, that's a good first act.

That's a good, it's just something much more natural. But in the same way that I can talk about a cup of water, it's like, once you start thinking like that, it's also like, like when I see my wife after like her fourth glass of wine, she's telling a funny story about something that happened. As she's telling the story, I'm like, no, you're losing too much emphasis on the setup. The storyteller in me can't be turned off because I know what a good story is. And the story doesn't have to be good, it just has to be told well. And that's why we say like, it's not that I live an interesting life, it's just that

I get, I can tell it really well. What makes a great setup? I think for me personally, it's when you're inviting the audience in on it with you. I know when I'm watching a movie and I feel like I'm part of it, then I'm the most excited to keep going. So the chat GPT video is just the last one I uploaded. It's not one of my best videos at all. It's just an average Casey video. the last one I uploaded. It's not one of my best videos at all. It's just an average Casey video. The whole point of me reading the script that ChatGPT gave me on a piece of paper, which cost us an extra day because I didn't own a printer. I had to go get one.

And for me to show the audience that I'm holding a piece of paper was just to constantly remind you, the viewer, that, hey, man, you and I, you, viewer, me, we're in this together, and we're kind of making fun of this silly AI thing. But you and I are in on the joke. You're not outside the joke. If you're watching a movie, if you're hearing a story that you don't get, you feel outside. It's like two friends telling an inside joke. You feel like a dick bag. Like, why don't I get to be a part? So for me, my favorite kinds of stories are ones that bring you in. It's why like The Godfather is like one of my favorites because I've watched it fucking 7,000 times and I know it.

So I'm with them. I'm with it. So for me, that's sort of at the core of telling a story. And when I tell stories, it's like I'm always leaning on my personal experience,

but if I can touch on universalities, I don't know if that's a word, universal subject matter that we've all experienced. So I think one of my favorite movies that I've made recently is my marathon movie.

That was great. If you've never run before. That was great. I had strangers stop me on the West Side Highway being like, I don't know you. Your video made me cry.

And it's about me failing running a marathon. I've run 25 marathons. That was my worst race ever. You didn't fail, though. You persevered. You just didn't run it as fast. That's right. I did not achieve my objectives. I finished because I'm not a fucking asshole. But that movie, as I'm editing that movie, especially because it did not turn out as I expected, I wanted it to be this movie of triumph, where I finally achieved a goal I've been trying

to achieve for 25 attempts. As I'm making it, I'm like, you know what? The struggle, as I'm going through all my first, like the struggle is so much more interesting than the victory. Cause we've all been there. We've all had our asses kicked before. Not everybody has run a really fast marathon. Like that's not, that's not so universal, but like this idea of just getting beaten down and having to fucking, you get that eight count and you get back up and you're like, fuck, no, I'm not taking this. You just stand up and start swinging again. We've all been there. So that's what I try to zero in on.

There's also a message of accountability in that that was just kind of cool to see is you cut in the middle of him running a marathon. He cuts to the day before and he goes, all right, here's my target time. I could have hit that target time, but I didn't train hard enough. So I'm probably going to be, and then he has like a graph with like a kind of shitty time for him. He's like, I'm probably going to be somewhere closer to here. And it's my fucking fault. And then he cuts back to the race and it's him immediately being like, God damn it, dude, I need to walk this mile. And it's just like a cool, like, I don't know. I thought it was a really cool way of telling the story of also holding yourself accountable. Yeah. To me, those are like like devices those are devices to communicate those universal subject i mean like

the day you and i went surfing that like no one surfs no one surfs you know i mean like there's not that many people that surf and then there's like no one lives in new york city no one even knows they're surf so what's interesting about that the only thing that's compelling about that video is the chemistry between you me dean like the group in the car yeah like it was just fucking fun yeah dean like this stick up guy was like kind of stiff yeah we're not none of us are good surfers we're just out there getting out fucking trying not to drown yeah the surf footage wasn't even that good yeah but it was like getting to see three fucking dope dopes i don't mean dope as in cool, like fucking idiots. Like we're grown-ass men going to have a fun time playing in the water.

Look at us go. We're taking it seriously. That is like, that's, I get that. You had a good observation when you were putting the movie together. You're like, they don't really care about the surfing. I go, what do you mean? He goes, watching the greatest surfers in the world is boring they don't care about us doing it no it's the story around it yeah it's that it's that chemistry it's that fun it's why like nobody cares about me going to get

a smoothie but that was like that happened to probably 200 of my 800 vlogs i like do that every morning but it's like seeing that that's my thing every day seeing i have to have a little relationship with the girls that make it and the owner of the place. And like they eventually put my fucking face up on the wall of Juice Press, which my friend then sold. My face is still up. All I got for that was a fucking hot sauce. I love your video with the drone and like the mission of you having to get it back. That's like one of my favorite videos I've ever made. I love your video with the drone and the mission of you having to get it back. That's one of my favorite videos I've ever made.

I love that video. Because it was just stupid. It was the most inconsequential nothingness. But we've all been obsessed about something that is meaningless to everyone else. No one gives a shit. But if you care and you can communicate that, that's exciting. Like, that's fun. That's fucking great.

And, like, for me, New York City is that everywhere I go. Like, one of my favorite videos I made this year is about, I think it's called, like, New York City Insanity. It has some generic title like that, which is me hanging around the city doing nothing. And, like, I linked up with that kid who takes the city bikes off of jumps and stuff. Oh, yeah, City Bike Boys. Yeah, yeah. He's a G, by the way. But like other shit happens. And my favorite scene in that is when he's trying to jump a garbage can. And this woman, you know, the city does this thing where they give people who don't have access to jobs, they give them jobs changing garbage bags and things like that. One of those nonprofits, this woman comes over, she's this old

lady. And the garbage can's in the middle of the fucking street with a jump in front of it. And she goes up to it and she starts changing the, and I'm like, man, man, man, man, I was like, no, no, no, no, no, we're just, we're filming. She's like, what are you doing? And I'm like, if you could just take a step back. She's like, alright. She steps back and he fucking launches the bike. She's like,

oh! Get him to do it again! Get him, get him, get him to do it again! And like, Get him! Get him to do it again! And, like, it wasn't mad because she was, because she's trying to do her job. She wasn't pissed off because she's, like, got a tough, she had dealt a tough hand. Yeah.

And we're goofing off. She was just psyched. Yeah. She was fucking, and I was like, that's the movie. Like, that energy is the movie. Like, at the end of that video, there's a thing where he's in the East Village, and he's jumping the bike. And he's, like, going up the wall and smashing off of the bars of someone's fucking bedroom window.

And doing a wall ride. And he does that. And all of a sudden, the window comes flying open. And the girl goes, what the fuck was that? And he does it again. She goes, this is awesome. She comes out to watch it. And it's just like, my God.

Like, I'm editing that video, and I'm like fucking applauding the whole time. He's like, I want to do a bigger jump. And I was like, what do you need? He's like, I need wood. And I was like, where do we get wood? And he's like, maybe a scaffolding. And we find guys putting up a scaffolding. And I was like, can we borrow?

But they're like, you're the YouTuber. And I was like, yeah, yeah. And they're like, can I borrow something? I'm like, we'll set it up for you. Fucking construction workers hired to put up scaffolding. They're in the middle of 4th Street building ramps for us. We broke one. They were psyched.

Like that thing, like that for me is like when I say a story punches me in the face, it's like that woman trying to change a garbage bag. I see that and I'm like, the world needs to know about you. You're the Spike Lee of YouTube, bro. Yeah Love that you get in New York, right? I'm fucking just the like this city It is my muse on a level that's like like I fall asleep thinking about this the apartment we live in right now

All I remember about it when we went and looked at the apartment was the view and I'm we moved in and I was like Candace this place is really nice and she's like you looked at it three times and all I remember about it when we went and looked at the apartment was the view. And I remember we moved in and I was like, Candace, this place is really nice. And she's like, you looked at it three times. And all I did when we looked at the apartment, straight to the window, like facing the glass. And I'm like, honey, honey, honey, come to this window. If you push your face against the glass like that, deep breath, close your left eye, you can see the Empire State Building.

Like that, no joke. Are you ever a victim of your own success in the city? Because so much of the beauty of your movies is The authenticity but when people around you because you're so successful so famous now It might be difficult to be authentic. I mean New Yorkers are so like there's this video going around today of What's his name with the dick yeah, big dick Come on the comedian this

big dick come on the comedian that's how yeah and he he was at the Knicks game yeah yeah yeah and he like

kind of flips out and like hits some guy but that dude was a pain in the ass to him he was harassing him non-stop yeah

that happens so seldom yeah in this scene most people New Yorkers are good about that kind of stuff the reason why you know it's a New Yorker

you know it's a tourist a tourist comes running up he's like can I get a selfie Joshua come here he said it's fine Joshua sorry to interrupt Joshua you know it's a tourist. A tourist comes running up and is like, can I get a selfie? Joshua, come here. He said it's fine, Joshua. Sorry to interrupt. Joshua. And like, that's a tourist. A New Yorker

goes, yo, yo, I fuck with your content. And then they take off. They want nothing from you. And like, I love that. I was watching a pod you did right before you moved back here. And you said, the second time I do New York, I know how to do it and not be so,

I think it was consumed by the work. Have you been able to do New York in a quote-unquote better way the second time? Yeah. I'm better at doing New York. I'm not as good at working. And I struggle with that. What do you mean?

For me, it's like if you're a ditch digger, I've been a ditch digger. If you're a ditch digger, you start digging a ditch, you throw the shovel down, go get lunch, go to sleep, go to fucking Hawaii, come back a week later, ditch is right where you left it. Pick the shovel up, you go back. But for me, making videos is more like Sisyphus pushing that fucking stone up the hill where it's like the minute I stop pushing, it rolls down my back at the bottom. If I go away and come back, I'm at the bottom of the hill where it's like the minute I stop pushing it rolls down my back at the bottom if I go away and come back I'm at the bottom of the hill and every time it's like starting from it's very

hard to find that momentum so if it's every day I gotta post a video I can ride that wave like till I'm fucking dead I will ride that wave you can't just pop in every few weeks and make something and that was the strain the first time right that's why you had to leave New York yeah it's kind of a compulsivity that is like can be sublimated it can be harnessed in a really

positive way but turning it on and off is so fucking hard for me so what do you do well luckily like i don't have um i'm very fortunate not to have the financial burden oh yes suggestion do you just work on longer projects so you always always have something to work on. Can't do long projects either. Really? Don't have the attention span. Interesting. None. And I don't like it.

I like to make, I like to, the instant gratification of YouTube, that's not just making a video in a day or two or in a week, but then releasing it to an audience and then within seconds. Yeah, feeling that.

Knowing that people are viewing it and they get to see them talking about it. That's why stand-ups like stand-ups. You tell the joke immediately. And that feeling that gives me, I've worked on long projects. I've made shows that take a year plus. I've made movies that take years and years and years.

No, this is what I love. But that on and off switch, I underestimated how challenging it would be. And it's what we were talking about earlier. These things that I want to do, but it requires me hiring people. If I have somebody working for me, immediately my focus is on management,

getting the most out of our professional relationship. I'm not making movies. So sitting in my office alone, it's why I don't do meetings, it's why I don't do phone calls, it's why I've been blowing you off to do this podcast for how many months now? It just means I know. It's like, well, I'll get something done in the morning, take a quick break, come back to it. It's like I've been blowing you off to do this podcast for how many months now? Like, it just means I know.

It's like, well, I'll get something done in the morning, take a quick break, come back to it. It's like, no. The day's gone. Most likely the week's gone. And so finding that balance has been challenging, but I think like I'm getting much better. Yeah, because if the options are I do a vlog every day, it puts a strain on my marriage, or I don't really know how to work. It's an important balance to find, I would assume, because clearly- Yeah, it's existential. I'm also just so good at fucking off because I can be so busy and do nothing. I made a plywood computer. It took me three weeks.

There's no ROI on that. There is nothing. I just was like, my laptop and then I've got a monitor and my hard drive and then there's my mouse. It's like my whole table has all this shit on it. I was like, what I want is a unit that's self-contained. I start drawing it out and I was like, I'll just done by dinner. Three weeks later. Just like that.

It's amazing. You can see my plywood computer. It's got a fucking handle on it like a boom box. Three weeks. This is in LA or this is here? This is my office. Oh, wow. I wanted to build a tree fort for my kids in my office. This is what you blew off the fucking podcast for?

Yeah. A little arts and crafts part of it? You should see the tree fort I built for the girls. It's unbelievable. They've got a patio. I can't wait. They've got carpet. They've got TV up there. They've got a system like fucking

Swiss Family Robinson where they can pull up their food on pulleys. The kids go to my office. They've got a place to chill now. No return on that investment. That was months. Well, that's kids' happiness. A plywood computer is for no one. That's my happiness. Also, sometimes I have a TV in my office. You can just click play on anything.

You just go to hbomax.com. You know how many movies are on there? No one's telling me not to. Is your TV show on there? Damn, yo. That's fucked up. It doesn't even cost them anything to put it up. Well, technically they lost their window.

It was like five years, so I got it back. So I could do something with it. Oh, shit. I just don't have to to relicense all those songs Yeah, it's kind of annoying Dan's done some stuff with it. He did yeah He put it he's proud like segments of it that were really intimate to him and contextualize them and things like that Yeah, I always think about revisiting it but like Like I was telling the story about the rocket ship and my wife and like how that fucks me up

Yeah, I start watching videos from 2007, I will lose myself. Really? Why? I have photo albums in my office from back in the day. I used to point and shoot instead of for iPhones and stuff. If I start looking at those pictures,

the day's gone. Get lost in it. Interesting. Nostalgia is my favorite emotion. Best app on the iPhone is the photo app. If I can conjure nostalgia,

I'll just, like a warm hot tub, just fucking ease into it. I love it. If I can make myself cry, make myself smile. You're the best. If I need to pull up a video, I have every shot that I can make myself cry, make myself smile. You're the best. It's like if I need to pull up a video, like I have every shot that I've ever taken back to like 2012, I can pull it up within minutes.

It's so perfectly cut, like Dewey Decimal System across the board. You have all the raw footage? Everything. Never deleted a clip. And when I need to do that, like it takes me five minutes to find the clip and then eight or nine hours of watching old video clips. So yeah. So if I start watching the HBO show, I'm going to lose. Van keeps telling me

to watch the Respectability Tour. He's like, it's so good. And I don't remember it. I remember broad strokes, but I don't remember the specifics of it. I'm curious, what's the story behind the glasses? Well, I started, I mean, there's a number of answers, but the most honest one is just, like, one time somebody asked Jack Nicholson, like, why do you wear sunglasses indoors? And Jack Nicholson's like, without my sunglasses, I'm just another fat old guy, and with my sunglasses, I'm Jack Nicholson. So me, without my sunglasses, I'm just like a funny looking guy, and with my sunglasses, I'm Jack Nicholson. So me without my sunglasses, I'm just like a funny looking guy and with my sunglasses, I'm Jack Nicholson. So you're trying to be Jack Nicholson really just at the end of the day.

Yeah, but the reason why it started was because, like, and I made a video about this, but like, if you look at your cameras there, if you flip around the screen so it faces you, like, it's one of my least favorite things about when YouTubers do, they're talking to camera, but their line of sight is off it's just like it means they're watching

themselves and it's like you fucking vain monster you're pretending to talk to me I know you're looking at yourself fixing your fucking hair so I can keep my face to camera my eyes are over here so I did it for like a really practical reason

hydro vanity or just to make me seem over here. So I did it for like a really practical reason. Oh wow. Hydro vanity. Yeah. And then it just, or just to make me seem more authentic, you know, like I'm actually checking my framing at all times, but it looks like I'm looking in the lens, but then it just kind of became part of it.

And then I just owned it. And then if you really want to go deep, what my therapist said before I fired her was the glasses are a way of like never having to like really put my real self out there. It's like a way of always keeping like a layer between me and the world. Which is healthy, really. I think so. I think it's beautiful.

But that sounds way too like intellectualized for me to actually say. The point of your documentary that you made, though? Is like this thing can swallow you up and there needs to be some you need to be somewhat grounded in this world of I think so these sunglasses provide me with that good job firing her I think that we've realized she's a fucking idiot

lady I don't pay you to tell me the truth just make me feel good just make me feel good give Just make me feel good. Give me those scripts and let me leave. People have been good to you. All the stories you've told me so far, barring one, and that's some stuff with family at home,

are about people that let you live with them, people you moved in on, people were there for you in a situation where you were in need and they've constantly looked out for you. People you observe in the city, you find these amazing characters and people doing the most mundane things like changing a garbage can. It's quite interesting that you come from a situation that's quite tumultuous. Your parents, you could have a lot of resentment for what you saw, yet you find so much love and appreciation in humanity. Like it seems like everything that you've curated is, look how awesome these people I get to interact with on a daily basis are.

What do you think about us as a species, as human beings? Most people are awesome. Yeah. Like I think most people are just fucking great. Almost everyone, like you travel around the world, like everyone's fucking great. I was trying to get like a little bit of fame. Oh my God. Yeah. They get really nice. Like, I know you asked a sincere question, but like the one thing about fame is a lot of bad sides, but the one thing about fame is I get to understand what it must be like to be a really fucking beautiful woman. You know what I mean?

You spend time with a beautiful woman, and I don't mean like a normal woman. I mean like a supermodel. I'm friends, I know some. And everyone stares, you show up at a restaurant, it's like, of course we have a table for it. Like whatever you need. The fucking sea parts

when you're that beautiful of a woman. I have to give you pushback here. People respect you. I was not taking this to a place of it's my looks that grant me the privilege. No, my point is the way that they're treating those supermodels has nothing to do with them respecting their brains, respecting their creativity.

Well, I appreciate that. Nothing. The reason why you're getting that love, like if I was one of those supermodels, I would fucking hate it. I'd resent all of them. I'd be like, you just think I'm a hole. Everybody wants to just fuck me.

Whereas they like what you do and what you create and the way that you make them feel. That's why you're getting that kindness. That's why you're getting that warmth. They're giving it back to you. You've made them feel that way. I appreciate that. And I was going to just fucking put an asterisk at the end of the supermodel thing, which is like, I understand there's a lot of negativity to that.

I think Brooke Shields, maybe some famous beautiful who's now old, wrote a whole book. It was just reading the synopsis in the New York Times about how hard it was to be young and beautiful because that's all you're ever judged for. She was also 15. This is an experience I know nothing about.

No, you're a hot guy. I have never had to worry about being judged for my beauty. But like, no, and that what you're describing is real. And like my fucking, the guy in my garage who parks my car, like he knows my videos. Like yesterday we're in New Jersey bringing my kids back from a water park. And like, we pull up to get gas and like the window goes down and I was like, Hey, can you fill it up with regular, please, sir? And he's like, yeah, YouTube. And I was like, yes. And he was like, site. And like, I know I love that. The best version of people. Norm MacDonald had a great observation about it.

He's like, my life has been so incredible because the people have been excited to meet me constantly throughout my life. And I get the best version of them. They're happy. They're smiling. Like most people go through their day and they're kind of frustrated, maybe angry. They're disappointed at things they had to go through. But when they meet me, they smile. So for me to complain about fame would be fucking ridiculous.

And I loved that take because it's so easy for like celebs to get caught up in this. Oh, someone asked me for a picture when I didn't want to take one. It's just like, that is the focus, not the fact that you get joy from every human being that you meet. Yeah. I mean, I probably take, depending on how much I'm outside, I take a lot of selfies, always happy to. And I can think of one. I've said no. I say no. When I'm with my kids, I say no. So it means taking my eyes off of my children.

And it's just like the idea that something could happen in that moment. But there's only been one time where there's been an incident because I've said no. What happened? We were at Ikea and Franny was a little newborn baby. She was like two months old, and she was hysterically crying. And there was this grown man. He wasn't a child, a grown man. And he was harassing me for a picture.

I was like, I'm really sorry, sir. I'm with the kid, and he's like, I'm with my baby. And the baby's screaming, and you're red in the face. The wife's freaking out, and it's like all this. And he just was so persistent. He was like, I just want a picture. And then he got a little bit aggressive and Candace started freaking out at him

and he got aggressive about that, and there's a baby. And it was just like, that moment was really, like I remember that moment. But that's once. Like five selfies today, that was once. I've only said no to a picture one time. It'll change when you have kids. The kid thing is

completely different. But it was just someone who said, they said, they're like, yo. And I was like, what's up, man? And then they went, yo, come here. They were like sitting down and I was walking. And I was like, that's not how this goes. It was something about the person didn't even know

my name and I'm walking down the street. You're that guy. Yo, get over here while I have my pasta in my hand. And I was like, yeah, that's that. You know who's the best at that is Logan Paul.

Really? He delivers his no's, which are much more like go fuck yourself. Yeah. With such like grace and charm. Yeah. But it's unbelievable. Like I was with him and we're at and charm. Yeah. But it's unbelievable.

Like I was with him in, like we're at the beach. Yeah. And this mom comes over and she's like, I want you to take a picture with my kids. Yeah.

And the way he shut her down was unbelievable. Where I promise you, she left being like, he was hysterical. Let me tell you the story. Oh, really? But it was so well done.

And he is so crass about it. Given his fans are all like, it's a much younger, much more male demo. Like mine, mine are all like adults. Yeah. And it's harder with adults because there is a level of respect and appreciation. His are just fucking kids.

Yeah. But like he is so good and so funny about that. It is a trait to be admired. Do you remember what he told the lady? No, but I remember when he went away and then the kids came back. They were like, you're just talking to my mom. He's like, kid, how old's your mom?

That shut the kids up. Really good. He's good. He's just good about that stuff. that's funny he got charming yeah yeah yeah taking the I don't know

it just seems like such a little thing I literally never say no I just feel like it's the tiniest it's just you stop when people touch me

it's hard don't like when somebody puts their arm around you that's a little bit yeah people grab touch you by the side it makes me very uncomfortable

pull you in yeah yeah I don't know what it is. Oh, yeah. You're a hot supermodel. You're a hot woman. When you can smell someone's breath. Oh, you have like a proximity thing. Dude, nothing is better

than when I'm arguing with my wife and somebody comes up and asks for a picture. And I'm like, I'd be more than happy to let her know how lucky she is right now. Take another. And I make my wife take it. She's not busy.

Oh, my God. I do have a technique that I would encourage you to embrace. I estimate that I've reclaimed years worth of my life. You take the picture. Always. Always. Always. I do the same thing. I tear the phone out of their hand with like a fucking 42nd Street fucking pickpocketers level of precision.

With aggression. Yep. Let's go. I mean violence. I pull it out of there. Most people, especially when they're from the Midwest or here on vacation. Oh, how do I get my thing? They're not used to having their phone.

Yeah. I can open any phone. Android, flip phone, iPhone, any jet. I can get it to selfie faster than you can. Because the worst thing in the world is a stranger. They take out their phone. They get their face next to yours and they're waiting for something. Oh, yeah.

And you're like handshaking. They're nervous. What the fuck are you waiting for right now? What are they waiting for? I can taste your breath. They're waiting for like the right frame or for both of you. They don't take selfies. What kind of a sociopath normally

takes selfies? All women. At Coachella. But if you do it, it's just like, I can be in and out in a second. I don't give a shit if you have a bad picture. I know I look good in it because I know exactly

I know my angle I know my angle that's why you really do it you get the arm far away never low down never close boom boom boom boom boom out of there

and usually their mouth is open asking me mid question gone back in their hand and I'm out the other thing too is when someone comes up and they're like it's such like I've always wanted to meet you and I'm out. The other thing, too, is when someone comes up and they're like,

it's such like I've always wanted to meet you, and I just, it's like, brother, I appreciate you, but I know you're here for the picture. Oh. Do you know what I mean? Sometimes they're not. Not, like in my, seldom, sometimes. But we're talking like minuscule percentage points here.

It's just what they want. And I understand. It's like I think it's very respectful. They want to be respectful and have a conversation, not make it a transaction. But I want to get back to lunch. You want the transaction. Yeah, just because I'm – Deficiency. Yeah, I'm in the middle of something.

Yes. And it's no big deal. I'm not trying to be insulting or anything like that. I respect them the same way. But it's just like I'll be like, you want a picture? And they're like, oh, I'd love deal. I'm not trying to be insulting or anything like that. I respect them the same way. But it's just like, I'll be like, you want a picture? And they're like, oh, I'd love one. I didn't know if I should. And it's like, yeah.

So it's like, if I can take that burden away from the awkwardness of this. That's very cool of you. Yeah. You just say it. Because you can tell they're a little shy to say it. I remember I was at the airport with my wife. And she takes those Peloton classes. There was an instructor that she loves.

And then I was like, say something to her. And then my wife was like, Hey, hi. And she was like kind of nervous. And the girl just goes, hi, which I get that was a little awkward. And then my wife was like, I just want to let you know, I really love taking your classes. And I just, it's really nice to meet you. And then the girl goes, okay. And then I was like, yo, you're a, I mean, like I've seen this guy, I get recognized sometimes. I've seen this guy get recognized thousands of times. Always humility, magnanimity, or however you say it. Same with you. And then when someone does that, you look at them forever, and you're just like, yo, you suck.

Yeah, how's that Peloton stock doing now? There you go. Thank you, bro. There you go. It goes like this. Those moments for those people, for someone who takes all that guts to go up and ask, they're going to remember that for the rest of your life. So even though you're going to forget about it in a second,

with respect, like it's, you know, you do it a lot and it's, they're a stranger to you, but you're not a stranger to them. So no, I would say, yeah, with very few, and even when I'm with my kids, I don't say no. I say not when I'm with my children. And if someone doesn't understand that, then they can just go fuck themselves and i don't care but at least in that moment they're like no he was with his kids he gets selfie now he's with his kids

you know have your kids ever been like why do you take the pictures when they're hot do they say that like i thought you don't take pictures daddy but then when they're hot huge fat tits, all of a sudden you have time to do that. I do find myself almost always being nicer to girls than to men. You're so unique in that way. Men are weird. You're so unique, bro.

You're so weird, Casey. The men are more threatening. Where do I develop that? They're fucking threatening. Oh, it's a threat. It's a threat. It is a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It's a threat. It threatening. Oh, it's a threat. It's a threat. It is. It is. It is. It's threatening.

It's scary. Versus like a lovely young woman. A girl's horrible breath. You're like, is that Brie? Did you have blue cheese for lunch? Wow. No. My kids, my older daughter, not only does she recognize it, but she has since figured

out who I am on YouTube. Oh, so she's watching. Yes. She loves, like she's watches all the old videos to break down and understand her. I don't know that it's awesome. Call me in like 10 years and I will let you know. But like she's figured it out. And then also like

our kids aren't allowed to have social media. We never post their picture. We get mad at my mother-in-law and she posts my kids on Facebook. It's just because we want them to have a fighting chance, man. We're just fucking trying here. And my little daughter, like, when someone asks for a selfie, she wants to be in it. Oh.

Because she wants to be a part of it. So it's like literally there are so many pictures of the top of her head jumping up to try to be there where just her little blonde hair comes in. So I'm like, can I have a selfie? And I'll be like, not when I'm, and if it's a kid, it's so, it's a grown man, like, not when I'm with, when it's like an eight-year-old, and I'm with Franny, and she's like,

you can have a picture. You can have a picture with my dad. And it's like, all right, come here. And then the kid comes over, and I swatch out the picture, and Franny sticks her face in it, and I have to push her head, put my hand in front of her face,

and take the picture. But for her, it's become normal. Yeah, it's exciting. Yes. I don't know how that's going to manifest in adulthood for her. But we become normal. Yeah, it's exciting. Yes. I don't know how that's going to manifest in adulthood for her. But we try really hard to protect them from it. Does she ask you questions about the old movies? And like, oh, what about when you and mom were doing this? She can quote them.

Does she ask you difficult questions that you can't really answer? Sometimes. She's not allowed to watch my videos in front of me. And my wife enforces that too. It's just too much man it's just fucking does your wife ever show her videos and like see he's a dick like you don't know he's a dick because you didn't watch his video but look what he no she doesn't she doesn't need to yeah she just yeah she doesn't my wife has plenty we had children and he was trying to get into bike accidents

my wife has unlimited material beyond the videos for that. But no, it's just strange. And my wife recognizes the strangeness of it. So no, she still watches the videos and will pick out details. And especially when she was a little baby, she was in the videos. And when she started, babies all look the same when they're babies. And when she started to look a little bit more distinct, like nine months. You want to maintain the anonymity. As much as we can.

I think this is your fault. My wife loves these ASMR videos and I think they're so popular because they all kind of steal your style of editing, which is like, open the door, put the toothbrush in the door, close the door, shot, shot, shot. You're cooking.

Here's the onion. Chop the onion. Put the onion on the thing. I watched your videos and I was like, this motherfucker is the reason these ASMR videos are successful and they're ruining my marriage. There's something like Maybe she just wants you to whisper.

Yeah. Lower your voice. Chill out. There is something there is something very like calming about watching process based videos. Dude I can't. I go nuts. You don't have the attention span for it? I don't. My skin is crawling as it's happening.

I'm like, yo, get to something, please. Isn't ASMR when they're like fucking chewing on TikToks with the microphone in front of them? I think that's, oh, that's, but there's ones where they're like cooking and you like hear everything very vividly. You hear the crackling of the onions in the oil. Yeah, there's like a guy who goes camping. I love that dude.

I watch those videos all the time. He's in the middle of fucking technology. No, no, no. There's no talking. Not that guy? No, no. He's just setting up his shit. I love that dude. I watch those videos all the time. Prone of technology. No, no, no. There's no talking. Not that guy? No, no. He's just setting up his shit. It's the best. I have a few of those guys

that I watch. Me too. And they're just phenomenal. 20-minute videos, setting it up, and he's like, opens up his little folding stove and he's like making rice

but not a word is said. Not a single fucking people. And I'm upset that I can't remember the name of the guy right now because I want to give him a shout out. Men with the pot?

No, no. There's another guy who cooks out in nature. Have you seen this guy't remember the name of the guy right now because I want to give him a shout out. Men with the Pot? No, there's another guy who cooks out in nature. Have you seen this guy with the blade knife? It's like a square, almost butcher blade knife. Those are cooler than this guy. The guy that I watch, he has the same car as me. Probably Land Rover, Defender, Camping, AMSR, Ace, SRR. It's just the process.

And it's so calming. It's so nice. Your fucking heart rate slows down. Fuck, I don't know, man. No, that's not it. Oh, God. Make it stop. Camping, AMSR.

In any event event he's great there's a guy that also creates it's not just camping he doesn't put up the tents and stuff he creates structures to sleep in so he'll do it in a cave it is fucking phenomenal maybe

this is the same genre but I don't think it's this guy like that. It is fucking phenomenal. Maybe. What's it called? Maybe. Let me see. This is the same genre, but I don't think it's this guy. This is Go 4x4. He's got a Jeep. He drives a Jeep. Yeah, but this is

the same vibe. Yeah. This is like I fucking... The whole point's the volume. Yeah, I know. Oh, okay. My bad. He gets so irritated.

This is why I can't work with anybody else. No, no. This guy's got music. Yeah, this fucking music's wrecking this. No, no, no, you got more. Oh, wait, no, the music's gone. This.

I'll watch this for days. I'm already, dude, I can't. You know what I mean? Like, I'm there with him, maybe. Do you like camping? I mean, I've never been camping, but I imagine I like camping. Isn't that crazy? I mean, I drove across country and slept in my truck the whole way.

It's as close as I've come. But I've never done this, but like, I'll watch this for like an hour. Do you watch the winter stuff? Sometimes I'll watch the winter. Okay, there's this one channel. It's like these two girls, they know exactly what they're doing with how they dress. But they do this. You know what I mean?

There's no accidents in how they're dressed or the random thumbnails they pick. Of course, of course. But it's that plus very attractive young women instead of like a guy. You're going down the rabbit hole. You're about to be in like the van life videos with the girls. Have you watched those yet? That's crazy. Angus? I just did. It's a very slippery slope.

But no, I've been deleting my Instagram. I followed way too many like attractive women camping. It's just a combination of things that I find compelling. Yes. You want to watch a man camp or you want to watch a woman camp? Well, it's just to find a very healthier

process to just simply watch men camp. My focus is on the camping, right where it should be. Yes. So all the people that want the daily vlogs back, it's the girls camping. That's what's stopping them out. That's why Instagram, yes, it's just

I am highly susceptible to distractions. Would you ever do that again? The daily vlog? I don't know. I don't know that I'm capable of it, but I do fan... What are you doing? I'm just looking at some... Jesus Christ. Look at this. I was just

looking. Put that away. There's no way this is even... This is camping. Come on, Casey. This is like, thanks, YouTube algorithm. I just wanted to watch a guy set up his Jeep. I can get distracted by this. Oh, wow. Jesus Christ.

Yeah, so in any event. Oh, look at that split. So in any event. Oh, God. Slippery slope. And I'll tell you what else is slippery. This is a video. And the cup with the mug, the location of the mug.

Fucking discerning mug. I just want to sip out of that. Now there's five dudes just watching women camp. Oh, she does yoga? Let's go, dude. Camping is awesome. Did you think for a second she wasn't going to do yoga? I was on the fence.

Did that even cross your mind that she might not? Oh, my goodness. That's how you sit down. Wow. Can you please close the solo teddy? See how distracted? Whoa, that frame. That's the thumbnail.

That is the thumbnail. What is her name? I don't know. I think it's solo teddy. Solo teddy. Gotcha. Okay, good. Well, listen, Casey, do you have any other YouTube suggestions before we get out of here? Great talk. Is there anything else that you really enjoy? Yeah. do you have any other YouTube suggestions before we get out of here great talk great talk

well you do bra yeah feet pics do you have any should we check out wiki feet no but that's my wife's

biggest threat what is that whenever there's like a fight about money or something she's like I'll just start selling pictures

of my feet and I'm like I don't know what you're talking about does she got some nice stompers she's got great feet I mean I

thank the lord every day I'm out of mean, I thank the Lord every day. A man of class, dude. I thank the Lord every day that I was not blessed or cursed with whatever an attraction to feet is. What are you talking about?

Thank you, Jason. Never mind. No, no, no. What are you talking about? I know, I know. I thought you were one of these weirdos. What are you talking about?

You like feet. Your wife got nice feet. That's not a coincidence. No, no. See, my feet look like if Fred Flintstone fell into a fucking blender. Yes.

My feet are just, I'm not allowed to take socks off in the house. We're not talking about our feet. But my wife is a very beautiful woman, but feet, I just, they're just feet. They're just feet. You're taking them for granted. That's what you are. And if you're not into feet, you shouldn't take good feet from guys who like feet. Here's the thing.

There are so many... He likes feet. Thank you. We got a real fucking Tarantino over here. If you're talking about beauty, there are so many aspects of the female form that is just... Yes. And foot is like tenth.

We're not denying those. Foot is like tenth. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, we're not denying those things are also true. Is it even on the list? I don't know if it has. Is it even on the list? What are you talking about? Is it even on the list? I don't know if it has. Is it even on the list? What are you talking about?

Is it even on the list? This is bad guy. Do you eat one type of steak? It's like King of New York. That's what I'm talking about. He likes feet. His wife doesn't. He said it's not on the list.

He's just not even on the list. I'm not saying that. You're saying that so his wife don't sell foot cakes. He's trying to convince her there's no market for them. What do you want? She's just a very well-proportioned,

beautiful female form, but there's a market for her. What do you want? She's a very well-proportioned, beautiful female form. Yeah, yes. But there's a lot about her that's stunningly beautiful. What supports that form, though? You know what I mean? What is it all standing on? Yeah. Good feet.

Feet should be wobbling around like an asshole. She's got a nice sturdy foot. She's got excellent balance, but a feet thing is just, I just. Don't get it. You don't understand it. That's fine. Clearly. Listen.

It's not all about art. You know what I mean... Don't get it. You don't understand it. That's fine. Clearly. Listen. It's not all about getting art. Thanks for having me. This has been fantastic, guys. You need your feet and get out of here? I gotta go? He's really out, too. Guys, Casey Neistat! He's going up for Casey.