Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh - Jason Williams Untold Shaq stories, Lebron vs Jordan Settled, and Dwight Howard Gay Rumors

Episode Date: November 7, 2023

THE LIFE TOUR IS COMING HOME MADISON SQUARE GARDEN 🗽 Exclusive presale kicks off on November 7th. Use Code: ANDREW Get your tickets at THEANDREWSCHULZ.COM ------ Yerrrr, had to have WHITE CHOCOLATE on the Flagrant to talk about some of his insane stories on and off the basketball court. INDULGE. 00:00 Andrew's MSG presale tickets are LIVE, code ANDREW 10:02 Intro to White Chocolate 11:01 Jason's old paintball drive-bys? 14:02 Code Blue Explanation in Basketball Games 17:55 Best QB Randy Moss played with + forgetting plays 22:12 "I didn't get paid to play D" 37:13 Lack of imagination in today's game 38:03 Assists kept him playing + NBA being easier 48:17 Draft Night at a BBQ spot + making grandma happy 50:50 Starting at Sacramento + Euros can't wash 52:43 Wild hazing stories 57:30 Handling fame/pressure 59:45 Impacting the game = AI, Jason and Steph 1:02:54 John Stockton was dirty + Karl Malone is a bad boy 1:06:07 Miami Heat Championship mentality 1:11:00 Pat Riley is that guy + "Heat Culture" 1:16:47 Shaquille O'Neal 1:18:20 Speedy Claxton + the underrated 1:21:08 NBA Finals + "F them referees" + Rec. league War Stories 1:31:46 Orlando Magic is the worst 1:37:15 People weren't playing like White Chocolate 1:41:54 Return from retirement + $43m contract 1:47:34 Gay players in the NBA + Dwight Howard is dominant 1:56:15 Gary Payton + no real vices 2:03:14 Rookie contracts + looking after your money 2:04:32 Nike shoe deal + best sneaker now 2:06:11 Kyrie Irving = best ball handler ever 2:08:23 Kobe Bryant 2:10:00 Michael Jordan 2:16:32 Best Arena 2:22:11 Transitioning from superstars to roleplayers 2:23:53 LeBron James is the greatest ever 2:26:02 Post-career comedown + going back to Belle 2:33:14 Jason treats us to a magic show 2:47:15 Penny Hardaway + Speedy Claxton 2:49:10 Kicked out of a Chinese charity game 2:54:05 Weirdest place = India + Meeting Larry Bird 3:02:00 Indonesia was different + biggest bag 3:02:52 China loves basketball + playing there 3:06:24 Edibles in China 3:11:35 Final magic trick bamboozles EVERYONE

I remember when I first started comedy, my dream was to one day headline Madison Square Garden and I would tell people that and they would all usually roll their eyes or they would like they kind of laugh at the notion of it. I told you that that was my dream. Boy. I said one day I want to headline Madison Square Garden and I remember you stopped what you were doing and you looked me in the eyes and you said, I'll see you there. Wow. And it was, like, really important to me because I felt like I wasn't the only person that believed it could happen. Wow. And I know as you get older, you know, sometimes things become harder to remember, but I remember everything.

I remember all the time you put into me and all the effort that you made and how much you always believed in me and supported me, and this made all the difference. Absolutely. Yeah. So the reason I brought you here is, yeah, I wanted to say thank you for being the most amazing dad ever. And the other reason I wanted to bring you here is because I want to let you know that when my tour comes to New York,

I'm going to be headlining Madison Square Garden. Wow. So I'll see you there. You definitely will see me there. All right. Love you so much. Thank you so much. Hey! love you so much hey yes that's awesome that that was really cool bravo to vala who made that video

absolutely amazing job amazing um great uh song choice mark while i gave you credit for that appreciate that and uh shifty thank you so much for filming. And yeah, that was awesome. Today was, we're recording this Monday, obviously. And the Jason Williams episode will be, you know, in a few minutes, but we just wanted to maybe reflect on Madison Square Garden. And yeah, today was a really cool, awesome, awesome day. What have you been feeling, man? Just a lot, man. I think I just kind of like suppressed all the feelings for a long time to kind of get through it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So then, you know, once I put it out there, I was able to kind of feel those emotions. And it was just really cool. Those like old videos. I don't know. Yeah, it was amazing. Yeah, just, I don't know. There's this video Vala showed me. I guess I didn't even know this, but, like, after my mom gave birth to me, my dad took off.

My mom went back to work. So, like, for the first six months, it was just, like, me and him. Yeah. Just five of us. Yeah. That's awesome. So I probably would like my mom if it didn't go that way. Someone's got to pay the bills.

She's the reason you hustled, dude. Immediately, back to work. No, I'm just joking. I love my mom so much. She's amazing. And congrats on becoming a U.S. citizen, mom. That was incredible. But yeah, it was just, I don't know, it was just really, yeah, it was just really awesome.

Really awesome. And the feedback has been great. And yeah, my dad, it was great to say those things to my dad. You know, obviously my dad has memory issues, short-term memory. He's not really there. And so maybe it's more for me to get them out to him. Like, at least I know that I've said it to him. I've said it to him every single time I see him, but like, it's there.

And he can watch it anytime he wants to, or my mom can play it for him. But yeah, like 40 years years never took a day off man he just he was there and uh i'm the luckiest dude in the world because of it so did your parents watch the video my mom did loved it she was really happy about it and uh i don't know if my dad has yet i imagine she'll play it for him but you know his yeah you know i don't know where he'll be with it you know she was too busy working to be there with him yeah exactly yeah yeah she's a citizen now she doesn't have to work as hard you know that's a good point divorces my dad immediately wow so yeah anyway thank you guys the feedback's been cool has anyone specific reached out to you like oh wow that's

really cool this person hit me up i think a lot of people who either their dad is on the decline or their dad had just passed. A lot of those people hit me up. It's a really special relationship. I think the video just kind of taps into that, into those feelings. They did, and that's always really cool. It's just wild.

The thing that you posted leading up to it with your dad, the pictures you guys had together. Oh, awesome. Wearing the collared shirts. Yeah. Like, obviously, MSG is, like, one of the most famous arenas in the world. Yeah. But it means more to New Yorkers, I think. Oh, yeah.

And, like, a special one. You know what's funny? I went to MSG with you one time, and you told me to wear a suit, and I never knew why. I did. And we got free Knicks tickets. And they were fucking great seats. But I was like, I did. And we got free Knicks tickets and they were fucking great seats. But I was like, I thought we were meeting people afterward

and then I just went home and I was like, I put on a suit to go. To watch some guys in basketball shorts run around? Yeah, to be the only people. But I didn't know where that came from for 10 years or whatever

is when you were filming the hockey show. Yeah. And you got really good tickets to a Knicks game. Yeah, man, that's right. So this whole time I've been like, I guess I just wore a suit to MSG. If your suits suits are anything like your clothes you were the first in the Steve Harvey

suits oh yeah I look like a caterer with some baggy ass clothes yeah it was uh yeah it's weird my dad had no rules really growing up there was like very few things you know apologize when you do something wrong uh do your homework and that was was pretty much it. And then one of them was just like, hey, if we go here. You didn't really listen to either one of those. I did, but I'm one for three. I'm one for three. I'm doing okay. And, but yeah, he was like, yeah, we got to wear a college shirt.

And he would go over these things. He'd be like, yeah, you know, I'll leave a Frazier here. And he would like say all these like great things that happened, like Marciano, Fra Lewis. And yeah, it was just like, I was like, okay, man, all right. I didn't get it. But I was like, all right. If you say so, then we'll do it.

And yeah, I guess it was just really special to him. It's special to us. I mean, did you feel that way growing up about the garden? Of course. Yeah, it's just- I feel that way. And I'm not even in New York. I can't even imagine.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I prefer the Amway Arena in Orlando. I think that i that was more special not even bullshit dude the american airlines center in dallas doesn't mean as much to me as the garden the garden is the fuck it's the mecca they call it the mecca yeah and i can't even imagine and no i'm not even saying this is a slight to you but growing up in manhattan you probably walk by i think so many fucking times your entire life yeah the idea of headlining there

is the dream yeah and i thought the promo you did is and i think what's cool is as we are all growing up we're kind of letting people in more yeah and i thought this was cool that you let people you had this amazing dude anybody who saw his vows and what he said to his dad at the valve we all cried and just showcasing a little bit of that that was just so fucking cool that you let the world see that on this i don't know and this is cool how it ties in with the show as well. Yeah. There's cool times with the show that people will see. Yeah, the people who have seen the show, I think

they'll get that. And those of you who don't, I hope you guys all come out. Yeah, I don't know. We just wanted to touch on that a little bit in the beginning. I think I'm still processing it all, but it's literally been... I've said it in the caption, but I've thought about it every single day. There's a moment every single day. It could be for two seconds. It could be for 30 minutes, but I think said it in the caption, but I've thought about it every single day. There's a moment every single day. It could be for two seconds. It could be

for 30 minutes, but I think about it. And I think it just all just smacked me in my face once I put it out there. I was like, whoa, this is a reality. That's your Roman Empire. Yeah. Dude, you haven't thought about the Roman Empire in like two months. It's just been filled up with MSG

times. That was my Coliseum. But now you can get back to Roman Empire thoughts. with MSG times. That was my Coliseum. Fuck, dude. But now you can get back to Roman Empire thoughts. Yeah, thank God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is the Coliseum. If and when the American Empire they're just studying about

in the history books, you'll hear about MSG more than any other sports arena on the face of the planet. Yeah. Or at least in American history. That's the one. I'm at a loss for words.

I'm not usually like this. But amazing video. Thank you guys so much for the roles you guys have played in getting here, which are instrumental. It doesn't happen without you guys. Thank you, Miles. And just thank you, everybody, listening and watching. And, yeah, it just means the world to me.

And I'm so fucking grateful. And I hope we get to see you guys all there because it's going to be special. I promise you that. Man, I remember you got a little emotional at the end of your Radio City shows. I cannot wait to see you cry at the end of these MSG shows. What do you mean the end? I think it's going to be the whole show. I think it's going to be

an hour of him weeping, just being like, guys. Tell a joke. He's like, I can't right now. I don't know if people can tell at the end of their Radio City. Where are you two from? Just pouring tears. You Where are you two from? Just pouring tears. You know where I'm from?

Ask the place. I'm from New York City. Bro, you got to bark tickets outside the arena. You got to do it. Before the show, be like, tickets. You got tickets. We'll save five tickets. I'll do it with it.

But yeah, anyway, we'll get to the next episode. Just wanted to take a moment and reflect on that. And once again, thank you guys all so much. Love you. Proud of you. Love you guys. Thank y'all for helping our brother get there. Absolutely. And I genuinely mean that. Anybody who's ever shared a clip or shared an episode or brought friends out to shows and anybody who's done that,

pure altruism has changed my life. I think it's changed all of our lives. To be able to get to this, like, and I'm sure that people watch right now, you have something that you're thinking about that you want and you think about that every single day and 16 years will go by. And eventually when you realize that it's going to happen, it's going to be a profound experience, man. Just, just enjoy it. I hope that happens to every single one of you, man. Yeah. This is your Izzy moment. I hope you can all experience this feeling one time.

Yeah. I genuinely hope. Yeah. And I can't wait for you guys too. And it's going to be awesome. And I'm going to sit there with you while you guys are crying and it's going to be great. It's going to be fucking great. Anyway, let's get to the episode. We literally got one of my childhood heroes and someone I've looked up to. I think we've all, you know, growing up watching basketball. This guy's an absolute legend. He's as great as you think he is. Bro, it is so nice to admire somebody and meet them, and then they exceed the expectations.

I told him that. This is a hero I'm glad I met, which doesn't happen often. Facts. So enjoy the one and only, the white chocolate, Jason Williams. He was telling us about the technical in China. them referees. The dude that's their coach is like the national team coach or he might be the leader of their army or some.

It's early in the game. They're probably gonna call an offensive foul. Sure enough, refs is cheating. Soon as they call offensive foul, my dumb ass boots this ball, commotion, next thing you know, boom, the ball is right back in my hand. Well, what do I do?

Gotta kick the further than that. They think I was bull. Now I'm kicked out of the game. This is a charity game? Yeah, next thing you know, the ball's in China. Whoever that is. The ball's in China! Talk to the refs.

I think they end up letting me play in the second half. I was fearful that they were gonna take my passport there. Yeah, you could get locked up. Last place you wanna be locked up in China, I think. What do you think would happen? Fill you up with duck sauce? Well, I'm not. I'm not, I'm not. B.D. Clarkson was fast as hell. Like, I'm on a gold tooth, bruh. You want to be locked up in China. I think what do you think would happen fill you up with duck sauce?

Did he Clarkson was fast as hell like on a gold tooth, bro? It didn't matter I was because it hit those highs giraffe, which is the dish in China China for me is like a seven-day tops. What happens after that? I start to die What's up everybody welcome to flagrant today I'm incredibly excited because we have Bell, West Virginia's finest. We have quite possibly the greatest passer in the history of the NBA. And the greatest quarterback Randy Moss has ever played for. We got Jason Williams in the building. We got Jason Williams in the building.

I appreciate that. I'm going to say I'm going to be a close second to Tom Brady, bro. You think? I'm going to give Tom Brady the nod. He's so humble. So humble. He's got too many rings, bro, not to give him the credit, right? That's fair.

Now, I have to clear up some folklore about you. All right. Okay. Folklore might be hard to clear up. Okay, exactly. It could be complete fairy tales. It could be real stuff. But throughout history, obviously, I've been watching since I'm a kid. I literally went to

go see you play the Nets. My dad got tickets. I remember going to see you play the Nets. And for a New Yorker to go to Jersey back then. That's a big deal. I'm a Knicks fan, lifelong Knicks fan. That's like taking a flight almost. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, it is. This is big. This is big. So, and you only scored six points, which is really annoying. You made a big trip for six points. But listen. High score, man. Yeah.

Okay. Is this true? You used to do drive-by paintball shootings of Chris Webber's home in Sacramento. I'm going to plead a fifth. That's fine. That's fine. His house probably caught some bullets along the way.

That's the most country-ass white boy drive-by you could possibly do. You know what I mean? And he was probably with me on some of them drive-bys. Just trying to get family members in. I got a good story about it. We were doing that one time, the security guard at the Los Lagos in Sacramento, Granite Bay.

Shout out. We had a good time there, other than this one incident. So we couldn't get in the gate or something. So we decided we're going to go down and do our thing at the security guard that night, right? So we got these two little scooters. We're riding on these scooters while we drop them over there in the dark

and we're walking through the woods and whatever. We got the paint balls and we got rocks. Boom, boom, we did it and here we go, take off. We left the scooters

to see Webb's shoe falls off. Oh, no. And we get there and we stop and I'm like, bro, where's your shoe? He said, it fell off. I said, you gotta go get it.

You're the only motherfucker in here to wear the size. The size of your shoe? Yeah, come on, bro. I said, you got to go get it. You're the only motherfucker in here to wear the size. Yeah, come on, man. But we got away with it. Nobody got in trouble. This is rookie year? Yeah, rookie year.

Yeah. That was the most fun time, I think, because it was a blessing in disguise because we only played. It was lockout season. We only played 50 games. Yeah. So we would play Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, you know, in three different time zones. Yeah. And we really didn't have any time for practice or anything like that. So what I say is a blessing in disguise.

I really didn't learn much. It was just coach threw me out there, and I got to do what I got to do. So like I said, a blessing in disguise. I had fun, and I wouldn't change it for the world. Okay, second piece of folklore. When you're still playing some rec league ball, there's a play that you call called calling blue. What is calling blue? Man, blue, I don't think blue will work in too many men's leagues without fights.

For instance, if most of the men's leagues that I played in, I had a pretty good team. It was like, I mean, I knew what I was doing a little bit, but I'd always keep two shooters with me and some athlete to play D or whatever. I mean, guys would guard me. You refused to play D. I would keep two shooters with me. There you go. That's good shit. Good shit.

Good shit. Yeah. So if we get up by like 50 or 60 and another team's still talking shit or whatnot, we're going to call blue. And blue, what blue is, as soon as they score crazy. You bring the ball in you're on my team You throw it right to me in the corner. I'm shooting a three in their bucket So he's going on his own if I call blue we're scoring on the other team. We're scoring for the other team Why this is because they're talking shit and we've been we're already up 60

You still can't beat it. Level of disrespect. Right. Now, is it true? Totally. Is it true you once got fouled while shooting on your own basket? Yeah, that was like, I think that was before blue even was created. But I remember like it was yesterday.

My agent was in town. This was like a rec league and a men's league. And I told my agent, I said, look, I'm going to give you the other team. I'm going to give you the other team the spread 72. Okay. We're only playing two 20-minute halves running clock, right? So they're up. They got set.

We got to beat them by 72. I look over. We're like, there's like six minutes left, and we're like up by like, I want to say 86, something like that. Yeah, yeah. And we start shooting. I start shooting. Well, it only happens if the other team's

talking shit. If the other team just takes the ass whooping and goes on about their business, we'll be fine. We'll just be fine. How much will you beat them by then?

Oh, 50. We'll try to be 50. It depends on what our team wants to do that night. We're just there to get, oh, I'm sorry. You're good. We're just there to get

some conditioning, right? We call blue when we're up. What an asshole thing. Guys, we're not really taking it seriously. We're just there to get some conditioning in, right? We call blue when we're up. What an asshole thing to say. Guys, we're not really taking this seriously. We're just trying to get some cardio in, so let's everybody be polite about this. That's right. That's right. So I'm doing blue, and we're shooting on the other team's basket.

And now the other team's kind of getting mad that I'm shooting, and like the third or fourth one, they come and try to play D and don't let me get the ball in bounds. So I finally get it in. I'm dribbling up the court towards my basket, and I turn around real quick and shoot it back in their basket. And Buddy fouled me. Well, the ball went in.

Now I'm looking at the ref. What are you going to call him? I'm ready. And one. That's right. So I'm like, what are you going to call? He's like, I don't really want to call. So he just comes over to me and says, Jason, cut the bullshit.

So what I think is, what do y'all think should happen in that situation? I think you shoot a free throw. Yeah, as a free throw. Because you don't know which. We know the bucket went in. Yeah. But on whose basket? On their basket.

You shoot the basket at their free throw. You should choose. No, you got to shoot on your free throw. What I think happens is, I think the three point counts for them. But you get to shoot a free throw. Correct, on my basket. Because you're shooting. That's right.

You're fouled in the act of shooting. That's right. I don't know how people not want to try to whoop my ass when I do something. If somebody did that to me, I'm fired. Yeah, that never resulted in a fight? Immediately, it never resulted in a fight. How many fights did you get in growing up? Not really many, because I was so much smaller than everybody.

I would really never talk shit to nobody like that. I kind of know when really never talk shit to nobody like that. I kinda know when I can talk shit. Four year old rec league, that's where you talk shit. Yeah, cuz I know who's with me or what. Randy Moss and I don't know. Yeah, yeah. Who was your protector growing up?

Because I assume that sometimes the game gets a little disrespectful. High school, there's rivalries. Well, in high school in West Virginia, we could have called blue in high school in West Virginia if we wanted to. It was that dominant. Yeah, we were killing people then, too. So I guess for everybody who doesn't know, you go to high school with Randy. You guys both play football together. You both play basketball together.

And Randy was incredible at basketball, too. He was. And you were incredible at football. You win player of the year one year. Isandy on the team randy was on the team and have you never let him live that down no because he won player of the year in basketball one year too so i mean you know it's like fair is fair yeah that's right i wasn't a bad quarterback though but i didn't like to get hit yeah i wasn't i wasn't and i couldn't remember the play like like i would call it in the huddle. I wonder why.

I wonder why. I love the huddle. Scrape them. Scrape them. Scrape them. Hey, Randy, this is the play. Go long, Randy. That's right.

That's the play. So I would be in the huddle and I would call whatever, like let's just say 32 dive. And then you've got to get up to the line and say a cadence, like as a quarterback, like 482. If I said all that shit, I done forgot it was 32 dive. So look, I'm calling 32 dive, and the first word you guys hear me say, that's when you hike the ball.

The first sound you hear, it could be, hike that ball. Any numbers involved, I don't know what we're going to do. That's hilarious. But to your point, yeah, just throw it as far and as high as I could and Moss will go get it every time. So you would have cannon? You could throw it? I could throw it, yeah, a little bit.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Moss was a good baseball player too, though. You keep saying, I was watching, you guys have a great, you have a great up in smoke interview. All the smoke. And you said, yeah, he could fish his ass off. That's right.

You said he could be an NFL punter today. For sure. Or a field goal kicker. Crazy. But fishing. Why? That's what he likes to do. Like, I like to golf.

He likes to fish. I don't get into that. I don't. I mean, you go out there for six, seven hours and nothing happens. I mean, how much dope are you going to smoke? How much beer are you going to drink out there? So I don't know. I guess he goes into competitions.

And maybe in competitions they got like they stocked the lake or whatever before. I don't know nothing about it, bro. Why? You just can't catch fish? I don't want to touch the bait. And then if I do catch a fish, I don't want to touch that slimy something. What's up with you thinking about eating and then people touching your hands? I don't really like people touching me, really.

You know what I mean? Especially if I don't know you. Okay, for example. There's some parts of this world that you can go to and, like, you know, God forbid, I'm thankful that people want to take their picture with me. I'm very thankful for that. But I don't get it when people are like, can I get a picture? At least ask me first, you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So stuff like that kind of makes me a little. But did something happen with the food? Because I've heard this story. I'm not sure. I don't refresh my memory. I don't know. Like, while you're eating, you don't like anybody touching your hands.

Sharing food? I don't really like to share food either. I'm going, you know, we're all big. Iso, iso. Yeah, we're all big boys. Why don't we share some shrimp fried rice? Just get your own bowl. Right?

Am I wrong for that? That's completely right. And I'll gladly buy you that bowl, too, if you like it. Now, if somebody starts eating out of your shrimp fried rice... That's yours. That's yours. So you can't go to a family-style restaurant. No, no, no.

All these big plates, y'all have them. So what happens when you're playing on the Kings and you're with all these Euros who are used to these big collective meals, everybody eating together. They got the fucking, their hands are in everything, there's hummus, everything's getting passed around. How are you handling all that? Y'all keep that hummus over there. Y'all Europeans,

keep that over here. Us Americans, we're going with the wings and all that. We're going to have this shit over here. You know what I mean? Europeans are a lot different than Americans. You know what I mean? God bless them. They can hoop. They can do all that stuff.

But they're just different, right? Yeah, foreskin. I mean, yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Long foreskin. That is true. That is true.

You noticed that. I mean, yes. And that was different for me. I'm from Bell, West Virginia, as you said earlier. There's no foreskins in Bell. Not one. Who was Wally or Pager? You know what, man? I'm going to say the same.

Doug Christie. Doug Christie. That's my guy, Doug Christie. He's a great guy. I think he got a bad rap, bro. He wanted to win, bro. Why did he get a bad rap? I think because he loved his wife so much. And and an NBA circle, people don't dig that.

Yeah. That did kind of define him. It did. But, but bro, Doug Christie and his wife are two of the greatest people you'll ever meet, bro. And he played D and I know you didn't want to do that. So you love that. I didn't get paid to play D. That was me. I love your animosity towards defense. Bro, okay. See, I'm not, but defense, defense, I'm not a, defense doesn't win championships for me.

For you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you got a score to win, right? Yeah. Like I say all the time, you want five Ben Wallaces or five Allen Iversons? Five AIs. Who's winningversons? Five AIs. Who's winning that game? Five AIs.

Right, bro. I agree with you. Defense helps, though. I don't remember who. I think Steven Jackson said it in all the smoke. Five Ben Wallaces would end up winning that game just out of sheer physicality. No, I think he folded on that. They're going to foul out.

Ben Wallace is going to foul out. I mean, there's nobody that's going to stop AI one-on-one. Especially Ben Wallace. And then they get frustrated, and then they start fouling him. Right. And you know what else people don't realize? Now I'm guarding Allen Iverson. He gets by me, and now the big guy has to come and help my big guy defensively,

and he either gets in foul trouble or AI dumps it off to his man. Now he's got 32 at the end of the night, and now everybody's looking at the big guy like, your guy scored 32. What the hell? Hypothetical. Hypothetical. Hypothetical. That does make a lot of sense.

But in reality, the defensive teams do tend to win the championships. Do they? Like, if you're not good at defense, you're not winning,

most likely. Even Golden State had to get good at defense. Without Draymond, that team folds. Right. Well, without Steph Curry and Klay Thompson's

three-pointers, where is that team? That's true. But you gotta, you know, you gotta play defense. Defense helps. Actually, I'm a master. Defense helps. I'm a master. That's true, but you've got to play defense. Defense helps. Actually, I'm a master. I'm a master. That's why we hire people to do that.

The reason y'all beat us, the team that I rooted for in 06, was the defense. They couldn't handle the defensive pressure, I think, watching it. That was part of it, but Avery Johnson, they called a timeout in between free throws, too, and then they couldn't advance the ball, so people don't realize that either. You remember that? Of course, it couldn't advance the ball. So people don't realize that either.

You remember that? Of course, it was late in the game. But not a single play behind center? You remember all that? You can't remember 32 dives? Too many numbers. That's a lot of numbers, bro. Yeah, and then I got to go 782. No, I can't do that.

Can't do it. Dude. Okay, okay, okay. Let's go back from the beginning because I don't think people know enough about how tumultuous the beginning of your career is. Okay, so high school, incredibly fun. You guys are doing whatever the fuck you want. Games sold out. People coming through.

It's like crazy celebrity type stuff in town. Town is small, but even extended town. Everybody knows you in the region. Oh, yeah, for sure. State championship. If you don't get to the JV game before the JV game starts, you're not getting to watch our game that night. Wow. They would have to go to the JV game.

Yeah. Sit through the whole JV game. Oh, yeah. Do you start to experience fame a little bit then? No, not really. Okay, because these are all your friends, kids, folks you grew up with them. All 17 of us. Right. It's 1,000 people in the town, so everybody knows each other. Maybe. Okay, because these are all your friends, kids, folks you grew up with them. All 17 of us. Right.

It's a thousand people in the town, so everybody knows each other. Maybe. Yeah, okay. You get an offer to play for Donovan at Providence. Donovan wasn't at Providence yet. It was Rick Barnes at Providence. Oh, Rick Barnes, okay.

Then what happens where you end up going to Marshall? Okay, Kentucky was recruiting me a little bit when I was a senior. Billy Donovan was an assistant coach at Kentucky. So he liked you. He was the one recruiting me, right? So he brought me into summer camp down there, Kentucky, Patino's, so Patino could see me. Well, push come to shove,

but Patino needed a freshman to play major minutes and he didn't think I was ready. So they recruited elsewhere. And Billy Donovan over that same time period took the job at Marshall. I would have never thought about going to Marshall. It was like 40 minutes from my house. Just never thought about going there until he took the job. So I signed with Providence out of college with Rick Barnes. He took the job at Clemson. That's right. He leaves. So now, because you liked Rick Barnes. It wasn't the school. You believed in the coach who believed in you.

Let's get this never to school. It's the coach. Of course. That's the recruiting process. Come on, man. Name an athlete that's ever been drafted, that's been on the interview ever, that said, man, I went to such and such because they had a great biology professor. such and such because they had a great biology professor. You know what I mean? That might be an institution like Duke or something, but still you're coming there for Coach K. Correct.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. Exactly. Okay, okay. So he leaves. Now you're like, I don't want to play for this coach. And did the coach that... So what is his name?

Rick Barnes leaves. Rick Barnes left. Pete Gillen, God rest his soul. He came in. He and I had a relationship, but he wanted to bring in, he brought in God, Cham God. Get the, that's what I was going to ask. Yes. Okay, okay.

Yes, so. Who's actually, I think, now with the Mavs still. He is. Yeah, yeah. So I didn't want to go that far away from home. You know, probably not going to play, right? Yeah. I mean, I probably could have still went there and took the minutes, but I

decided not to. It's kind of funny, though, because you'd be like, Coach, don't you want something with handles? And he's like, well, I got the guy. Well, maybe a white guy with handles. Were they offering you any brown paper bags? No, I wasn't.

What is that? That's blue chip. I wasn't nowhere rated four star. I didn't get any of that, so no. Are they schmoozing your parents? No, no. How do they even get in touch with you? Later on, they schmoozed my parents a little bit. When I went to end up signing with, I had to sit out a year because I'd already signed

a letter with Providence. Yeah. So I went to Fort CUNY Military Academy in Virginia. And I was there for like eight days. That shit there, boy, I ain't. Defense. It was too much. Literally, it's defense. It's defense. Didn't even make it to basketball.

No, I told my dad, no, I can't. No, eight days after this, you know, you got to salute like sixth graders that's been there longer with more rank than you. You know, you got to make your bed. I mean, not that I'm against all that shit, but you don't have no TV in your room. No, I'm not. On like the third day of class, English class, we got like a quiz with like 325 vocab words. I'm not cut out for this. So then I set out the rest of that semester. I went to talk with Billy Donovan up at Marshall.

Yeah. So I set out a year at Marshall. Randy was there too, right? Randy came after me. So I was at Marshall. I set out a year. Then I played a year. And then Billy Donovan left and went to Florida. Now, does he tell you before?

No, not really. He's like, well, shit. He's like, what are you going to do? I'm like, well, the only reason I came here is because of you, right? And he's like, well, I want you to stay here. Looking back, that's what he was supposed to say. Meanwhile, I end up in Florida. Now, people don't know.

Now you don't have to do this. But back in the day, if you were going to change schools, you have to sit out another year. Yeah. So you already registered freshman your first year, right? So that's 18 to 19 is sat out. Now you're sitting out another year. So two years. It's not eligibility because you maintain, but it's still of your life. Yeah. Yeah. I played a year. I sit out a year and then I play the year.

You play to Marshall. Correct. And then you have to sit out again. That's right. And it was illegal to pay. So you're just sitting there. I'm saying two out of your what would be four college years. You have to sit out. Yeah. It's I mean, it's just kind of crazy. Now I think players have a different perspective on it because now they're like, let me get into the league as soon as possible because let me get paid as soon as possible. Right. But you're essentially doing four years of college while only playing two. Right. That takes away two of your playing years. That's big money you could be making anyway. So he says you should stay here. Right.

And is that a political move by him? I think so. Looking back, I didn't know that then. Explain that because I don't understand. I just think maybe he was just trying to say the right thing for me because he knew that he couldn't come out and say, you come with me, right? Because I think back then he'd probably get in trouble for taking flares. Oh. It's a bad look.

Yeah, yeah. Because it's about the education. Right. That's right. That good biology professor. Yeah. Okay. That's right bad look. Yeah, yeah. Because it's about the education. Right, that's right. That good biology professor. Yeah. That's right, bro. Okay, so.

So the new coach came into Marshall. Yeah. He starts sending me a bunch of Reebok gear to the house, thinking if I open that now he's got me. Because it's almost like he's paying me. Now I'm stuck here. But my dad was kind of smart about it. He didn't let me open any of it.

I was madder than hell. My dad, I wanted to rock the gear, right? So we had to end up hiring a lawyer and everything to get out of the commitment at Marshall to get to Florida. So do you call up Donovan and you say, hey, man, I want to come hoop for you? I didn't personally, but yeah, he got, yeah. He got word. Yeah. And he wanted it.

I think so. I mean, but then I get down there and he kicks me off the team after 17 games. But you were hooping. I was hooping. But he told me, though, in all honesty, he told me that if I had another dirty test, he was going to kick me off. It was supposed to be three tests, but he only gave me two. But he told me after the first one, you know, he didn't have time for that.

And like I said earlier, you know, getting paid and stuff like that, I wasn't that kind of guy. I wasn't getting, if I was getting, you know, if you're getting 30 and 15, that kind of stuff just slides right under the rug. I wasn't that kind of guy. Plus, I wasn't going to class. I'm in trouble. I mean, Billy Donovan's rule, if you didn't wait—if you didn't go to class, you know, if you missed a class, you had to wake up the next day at 530 and run for a half hour. I said, look here. I told the strength guy, I'm going to meet you every day at five.

It's a deal. That's right. Because you know what? I'm going to get in better shape than everybody. And then I'm going to get a good breakfast and then I'm going to go sleep and I'm going to come to practice and bust everybody's ass in practice because I'm going to be in better shape and I'm ready to rock. So I thought that was probably another blessing and a curse for me to learn that I could miss class and just have to run for 30 minutes. Shit, I could run for 30 minutes all day. You know what I mean? Did you know it was one year and you're out?

No, I didn't. You know, once I got in trouble, I'm like, you know, everybody, what am I going to do this, that, and the other? And I always thought NBA or I don't know. You know, now that I look back, people ask me that question, what would I have done if I didn't play in the NBA? Just my personality would be like, I could see myself, you know, I have fun like, I could have fun being like a UPS driver,

like a FedEx driver or something like, just give me my shit and let me go do my thing. I ain't trying to be around my boss all day or whatever, you know, telling me what I have to do. That's just my personality. Yeah, and you play like that too. There's a rebellious spirit in the game. Yeah.

It's really interesting because you're the most humble dude that has been as famous as you've been. Like truly humble. Yeah. But your game has no humility. Well, I think that comes with the territory a little bit because as a little dude growing up playing

i mean let's keep it real most most hoopers are are black dudes right yeah and and athletic and big and strong way bigger and stronger than i was growing up right so you're not black i might have a half uncle down there somewhere but like you said i just go out and if you didn't have that kind of attitude on the court, bro, I think a guy like me would just get ate up. I think a lot of people confuse humility for a lack of confidence, but they're totally dissimilar because you were playing confident to the point where I feel like you were rejecting authority.

So the coach might have wanted you to make the correct pass and do this. So I'm trying to understand where that confidence comes. And I've heard you say, I've drilled these passes. I know it's going to go there every single time. But still, when you're in a big game moment, we all have, we haven't been to big games with you, but we all have this feeling like, I don't want to do something that could let the team down, right? It doesn't even have to be a big game moment. We're playing fucking paddle, whatever. You're like, do I want to go for this slam and potentially lose the point for

the team? You never even- Nah, because what if you didn't go for it and you didn't win and you're laying down in bed at night like, damn, I should have went for that shit. So the regret would eat you alive. And plus, I've done tried all this shit. I've practiced all this shit by myself. And now I got these dudes around me, Chris Webber and Vlade Divac and Shaq and D-Wade shit. Then I ain't got to be nowhere near perfect with my shit

because these dudes are going to make me look great. I think it gets twisted because I get a lot of credit for all this stuff. But without these dudes, none of this, I wouldn't be sitting here today. I mean, some of these passes that I've thrown were horrible passes, but they caught these bitches and made them look good,

bro. And the elbow pass, I've did that thing probably millions of times and been successful three. I think the greatest mistake in Lamar Odom's life is fouling Rafe LaFrance on that. I agree.

But again, again. It's not crack. No. I'll take a little responsibility for that because if I'd have hit it to a bruh and he'd have hit it to a bruh. You know what I mean? That shit would have been different. No foul. You saw Rafe trail. You're like, God damn.

God damn. Give me Randy Moss. He'll take anyone. But he was probably a little more athletic than Dirk was, so I guess. Fair enough. Guys, tour announcements. We have added a show in Portland. We sold out Friday and Saturday, so we're adding a late show Saturday.

Thank you, Cucks, for buying tickets, dude. I hope you keep doing it. I know you hate your city as much as I do, and if you do, you should be there. December 8th, I'm going to be in New Orleans, the Big Easy. I've never done comedy there. I'm super hyped, so hurry up and buy your tickets. Also, 17th, 18th, 19th, I'm going to be in New Orleans, the Big Easy. I've never done comedy there. I'm super hype. So hurry up and buy your tickets. Also, 17th, 18th, 19th, I'm going to be in the UK. Glasgow, London, and Manchester.

London, we added a second show. Glasgow, y'all ain't buying no fucking tickets. I'm going to be honest with you. Those sales ain't shit. I'm not going to pretend they're great when they're not. Manchester's going to sell out. Y'all should buy tickets to Glasgow. Get your fucking act together.

Also, I announced this last week. This is big. January 6th, 8th, and 9th, I'm going to be in the Netherlands and Norway. I'm going to be in Eindhoven, Amsterdam, and Oslo. I don't know when the fuck I'm ever coming back. Hurry up and buy your tickets. Maybe I'll get thrown in jail like Alex did in Sweden. Get your tickets for those

shows and more at akashsingh.com. Yeah, dude. Okay, okay, okay. So you're born in Florida. College game easy for you? You feel like you can do whatever you want? I think basketball's kind of always been kind of easy to me. I mean, there's different levels to it. But I just feel like as a basketball player that's going to be playing the position that I played,

when I get on the floor and I got the ball in my hand, I'm getting to anywhere. Wherever I want to go on the floor, I'm getting there. That's yours. You ain't stopping me. Yeah, yeah. It might take me a little bit longer in different situations, but I want to go on the floor, I'm getting there. That's yours. You ain't stopping me. It might take me a little bit longer in different situations, but I'm going to get there. So just the confidence having that. So getting on. What does that mean?

I'm going to get there, for example. Like there ain't nothing you can do. Now, I can't say that I'm going to score. Right. I'm just saying like get to a spot on the floor. Yeah. Where I'm going to get over here. And I know you, if you don't help off that corner, it's a layup for me.

But if you take this lean this way, it's a three. Just lean. And that's all I'm really looking for. So the imagination, I think these kids, they don't have the imagination today like they did back when I grew up. And why is that? I think because a lot of these kids have trainers now, and they walk in the gym, and a trainer's already got a schedule.

All right, we're going to do ball handling for 15 minutes. All right, we're doing it. All right, now come on over here. We're going to do this. Whereas me, I never had a trainer. I would go in the gym and work on different types of pivots. Like if you saw me working out, like what is he doing? But I don't try these pivots just in case I get caught at half court somewhere trapped.

And I got to use one of these crazy-ass pivots just in case I get caught at half court somewhere trapped and I got to use one of these crazy ass pivots just to get out of that. I know that I'm going to be able to do it, but it might look like shit, but it's going to be successful. So my point is, I got that. I've got this pivot. I got that pivot, whereas a trainer

is only going to work on X, Y, and Z. I have a question about the pass and the way you passed. I know you said the way to stay on the court growing up mainly playing with black dudes is i just i'll pass and they'll respect the passing is part of that why flashy passes people are going to be like oh that white guy is cold with the passing keep him is that where that comes from you think on any level of like that's just what kept me on the court when i was a kid i'm not sure man but but it wasn't about that that was keeping me on the court. I was thinking more along like, we're going to the park and you guys are there

and you guys know how I play. I'm passing and y'all like to shoot. Well, shit, you're going to want me on your team all the time because I ain't shooting no balls. I'm trying to get y'all the balls. That's why I'm wondering if the NBA game was weirdly easier for you because you had more guys that could stroke. So in the college game, I imagine you have to take on a little bit more of the offensive burden.

Like you got to get the ball in a cup more, whereas you start playing the league and it's like, wait a minute, I got four different dudes that are lights out. So did you find the transition to be a lot easier than people have maybe told you about? I want to say it was easier, but I don't want to sound like an asshole because the NBA is such, this is difficult. Yeah. Because them dudes are monsters. Yeah.

Night in and night out. But yeah, the spacing is different. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I was kind of quick. You know, if you weren't there when you're supposed to be, I'm going to get by you. Yeah. So like I said earlier, if that guy's just leaning, you know what I mean?

It's just, it's a game of angles. That's the other thing. Okay. How often are you, because I think a lot of times we look at, or, you know what I mean? It's just a game of angles. That's the other thing. Okay, how often are you, because I think a lot of times we look at, or a casual person is looking at basketball and they're like, okay, I see a guy open, I'm passing it to him. What I think you would do and what would make it different was you would make guys open. And I think the elite passers do this. Something you were doing offensively is dragging attention away, help away.

And so you're setting up a pass while you still have the ball. Are you thinking two moves ahead? Or are you in that moment going, okay, boom, done? Well, I'm definitely trying to think that way too, but sometimes it doesn't happen like that. Right. Like most of the time, most NBA is a pick and roll game, right? Yeah.

And the defense should be played the same if it's played the correct way. So the guys should be where they are. And as a point guard, you should know if I'm coming off a side pick and roll, well, this guy in the ball side corner defensively, he's got to slide in there and take the roll man on the pick and roll. And if he don't, then that roll man's a dunk, right? Because all the other three guys are on the side floor. But now the pass that everybody wants to give up in the pick and roll. And if he don't, then that roll man's a dunk, right? Because all the other three guys are on the south floor. But now the pass that everybody wants to give up in the pick and roll defense

is that guy slide in is the pass way back over there because all these guys in the NBA are quick enough to react to that. Where they're not quick enough to react to this little quick pass. Skip it all the time. Funny story about the skip pass, Grant Long. Remember Grant Long used to play for the Atlanta Hawks? He played with me. Remember Ike Austin?

Ike Austin with the Orlando Magic. Yes, sir. Yep. Well, anyway, we played together in Memphis. And this is my first year in Memphis. And a couple timeouts come by, and Grant Long was always in the corner of our offense. Always. We'd go to the corner.

No matter what's going on, Grant's in the corner, right? So it's like two timeouts. He's bitching like, man, I'm open. I'm open in the corner. Y'all need to swing it. Y'all need to the corner. No matter what's going on, Grant's in the corner, right? So it's like two timeouts. He's bitching like, man, I'm open. I'm open in the corner. Y'all need to swing it. Y'all need to swing it. I'm getting fed up with this shit, right? So the next time out, he's bitching again.

I'm like, goddammit, Grant, it's the reason you're open in the corner. It's the reason, right? I'm like, look, if you want to shoot the ball, you go offensive rebound. And every time you offensive rebound, you can shoot it any time you want. He never said he was open again. But I'm Phil Grant because when I was in Miami, you know, that was my job. I initiate the offense, bomb, get it to D-Wade or whoever, and go stand in the corner. And if I get it, shoot it.

Or if not, get your ass back on defense. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy the transition. Okay, okay. So you're hooping. You get in trouble for the weed. I think it's weed. Did they ever fully say it was weed?

Yeah, it was weed. Okay, so you get in trouble for the weed. Never did any other drugs on weed. Is that even a drug? Yeah, it's so funny. Right? How we treated it in the 90s, it was so funny. We thought that was the craziest thing.

Bro, and there's people locked up for life for it. Yeah, it's crazy. Well, you got another vice, too there's people locked up for life. Yeah, it's crazy. Well, you got another vice, too. You got a Coca-Cola. Yeah, Coca-Cola, but that's not really a vice, is it? This guy apparently drinks Coca-Cola breakfast, lunch, dinner every day. Oh, are you a morning Coca-Cola guy? I'm a Coca-Cola guy.

Come on, man. Look, shout out to me, bro. Shout out to me. Come on, bro. They got you, bro. Coke, holler at me, dog. Okay, so you're balling you're getting a little bit trouble you're in flux right now right are there teams in the league that are interested

because they saw what you were doing or is there no interest and then the nick anderson play happens yeah i don't i don't know if there was any interest i wasn't aware of any interest now billy donovan never told me anything about that, any interest. I'm sure there had to be some coaches calling him asking him something, right? I don't know, though. So, I end up with Nick Anderson. We played a game before I got kicked off the team, Florida, Florida State

in Orlando. Nick came to watch, blah, blah, blah. He told his agent he needed to sign me. One thing led to another. Now I'm with Nick Anderson's agent. Nick Anderson, basketball player, played for Orlando Magic. Great shooter. Great shooter. First pick out of Orlando Magic ever for their franchise. Yeah.

I actually played in Sacramento with me, too. But anyway, we signed with a saved agent, and he had a condo down in downtown Orlando. So when I got kicked off the team in Florida, I moved down there, and that condo started working out with those guys down there. Best shape of my life. One thing led to another. The draft was coming up. I had to go work out for these different teams.

I wasn't going to go work out. I think the Clippers had one. I'm not going to go work out for the Clippers because they're not picking me one. Who did they take? Ola Wakandi or something? Ola Wakandi, yes, sir. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.

You should have worked out for the Clippers. Well, it was back when Donald Sterling owned the team, so I'm glad I did. Okay. Fair enough. So I worked out for these other teams and and all these other guys are supposed to be you know picked ahead of me the mike bibbies yeah the rafer austin's the tyrone lose that's right yeah for was in that yeah bro draft class um so that skipped to my loop yeah a lot of times guys like that and myself will be at these workouts for these different franchises.

But sometimes some guys will duck and dodge some workouts too in fear of hurting their— Because they don't want to go up against someone who's going to embarrass them. They're supposed to be low. Right, right. So like I said, when I moved to Orlando, I got in the best shape of my life, and I was going to all these workouts. And you're already hooping with the—you're playing with NBA players. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Doing this— Whatever you wanted. Like I said. workouts um and you're already hooping with the mat you're playing with nba players oh yeah yeah don't just whatever you want it like like i said today if i go on the court i'm getting wherever

i want to get against anybody i might tear my achilles but i'm gonna get over it worth it yeah so it's really just a body breaking down you know for sure i mean i i mean if you can dribble with your left and right hand as good as a lot of people can, you can get to wherever you want, bro. I'm telling you. Okay, okay. So take us through it. Take us through it. So I go through these draft workouts, and I'm killing everywhere I go.

Who are you going up against? Who's the one-on-ones? I never got to go against Bibby. He didn't really work out. He worked out for the top two teams. That's it. Yeah. Because he knew what time it was.

Yeah. But I worked out with Ray for two teams. That's it. Because he knew what time it was. I think I worked out with Ray for somewhere in Tyroloo. Sacramento, we did that. They had me come back and work out again. So you have an initial one. Yeah. And they called and said, can he stay the night and work out tomorrow?

So what does that mean? Does that mean that they're unsure? Does that mean they saw something they didn't know they were going to see? I personally think that they wanted to see if it was real. Oh, he might have just had a great—he was on fire today. We got to make sure it's it. And you get that call, and what are you like? Are you like, this is food?

Yeah, I think this is what's going to happen. They had the seventh pick, but then draft night comes, and the Bucs had like sixth. And Don Nelson calls my agent and talking about they might take me at the sixth. I didn't work out for the Bucs at all. I never had any conversation at all. So people were talking in the league. I think so. Oh, shit.

But even if people were talking, if I was the owner or something, I wouldn't just go based off what he thought about you playing. If I was trying to get him and I knew what time it was with him, I'm not just going to pick you because you had some hoopla. You got to see it. Right? But still, there's enough convo where they have to make a decision. Maybe.

I think I made a little bit of noise, too, in a couple of these workouts. Do you remember which one was your best? Sacramento was for sure the best one. For sure. I mean, I was. And were you playing how you played? Full tilt. No way.

Hold on. Hold on. We did this one. Oh, dude, the balls. So you don't even know if there's interest. No. You go to these workouts thinking there might be. And you're, oh,. We did this one. Oh, dude, the balls. So you don't even know if there's interest. No. You go to these workouts thinking there might be, and you're, oh, you have nothing to lose. And plus, that's all I know.

I'm not going to go out there and just try to, eh. Yeah. What's that going to, eh? So you're toying with these motherfuckers. Oh, yeah. And these coaches and the staff are looking at it. They're like, how is he playing so free? Why is he acting like this isn't the biggest deal in his life?

And I wonder if the sports psychologists on the teams are going, yeah, this kid ain't scared. Not scared of what? What are you going to do? Bite me? But some players, assholes get tight. That's a big moment. That's your life right there, theoretically. Oh, every other person that's playing is like, I need to be drafted by this team.

My whole life trajectory is built around this. I have this Adidas deal, this Nike deal, and you're out there. I have no deal. I'm just trying to get in that uniform. And you were eating them alive? Eating. Were you chirping at them? No, no, I wasn't chirping because, like I said, I was small as shit, and I wasn't a chirper.

I wasn't a fighter either, you know what I mean? So you got five on the squad? Are you playing fives in these workouts? Like, what is the— No, no, there was only—the one drill we did in Sacramento was—I forget. I forget who was there with me, but we did like a one-on-one drill.

And the width of the paint, that's out of bounds. So I started half court with the ball and I go at you. And if I score, now I'm coming back at the other guy

at the other end. You go full court. Yeah, but out of bounds is the paint. You can't go out the width of the paint. But are you going full speed? I mean, I don't think anybody's stopping you full speed. Yeah, but out of bounds is the paint. You can't go out the width of the paint. But are you going full speed? I mean, I don't think anybody's stopping you full speed.

Not anyone. So they just have to wait at the free throw line, and you're going full speed at them? Yeah, and I got to do the same thing for them, too. I mean, like I said earlier, I ain't playing no D, but I like to. I'm just trying to back up and entice a jump shot. Yeah. But at some point, these guys, the coaches and all this, they ain't never want to see a jump shot.

You got to do something. And so you were cooking them. Well, yeah, I was cooking. I was just doing what I do. Like I said. And you're in the best shape of your life, so the full court's not bothering you. Not a bit, bro. Yeah.

Not a bit. Okay, so Sack gets you with the seventh pick. Can you explain draft night? Like, what does that feel like? You remember Old Boys in Orlando, the barbecue spot? Yeah. That's where I was the night of the draft. Really?

You were at a barbecue restaurant? Yeah, thank you. You weren't at the draft? No, I was in Vancouver. That's right, because of the— Shout out to Vancouver. I love Vancouver. I went to visit to play the Grizzlies and things like that.

Vancouver's a great city. But I wasn't going to go to the draft not knowing that I wasn't even going to get drafted. I'm sitting there. They got me on camera in the second round. I still haven't been drafted, right? Yeah. You got an old boy. So I'm an old boy with my family, right?

Dude, go to a barbecue restaurant for draft night. It might be the most Jason Williams thing. Oh, man. Barbecue in Vancouver, no less. No, no. This is in Orlando. No, no, no. This is in Orlando.

Yeah. So, you know, we're sitting there watching, and the seventh pick comes up. Well, the sixth pick came up, and that's when Don Nelson, the Bucks, called my agent and said, we might take him with the sixth pick. And we're like, why would you do that? Because I think we already knew the Sacramento, if I was there at seven, we were going to take him. Wow. And once that, my name was called, bro.

Shoot. Yeah, what are you feeling? Then we go to an interview with Brian Gumbel down the street. Was it weird being with someone that much whiter than you on camera? He wants to talk about the weed and stuff like that right away. I'm like, bro, this is going to be the happiest day of my life. We're not going to talk about all that bullshit. Oh, did you say that to him?

Of course. Good for you. I mean, for what? Why? Everybody knows what time it is. Yeah. You know what I mean? So Everybody knows what time it is. Yeah. You know what I mean? So let's talk about that tomorrow.

Yeah. Yeah, that is an absolutely narcissistic thing to do. Yeah, he's different. Is ruin somebody, the best day of somebody's life. Trying to get the sound back. Not ruin it, but try to like chip away at it a little bit. You have to have zero empathy to even ask that question on that day. If it's a week later and you're at camp and you're doing it, that's part of the job.

How about the next day even? Give me a day to be happy, bro. He put the soundbite over your happiness. Shout out to Brian Gummel. Keep trying, bro. And how do your parents react? I was more happy for my grandmother and people like that,

bro, because I used to give my grandmother like $400 a month when I was in the league and you thought it would be like $4,000. She just sucks at it. And did she support you when you were coming up? For sure, man.

And all my homies, we ride our bikes up to my grandma's house and she used to sew for people around town, you know, do their laundry and whatnot. She'd have a gang of ones like she was going to strip club every night. But she would break, you know, give me six, seven,

how many homeboys I have with me on our bikes. She'd make sure everybody could get a big golf or whatnot. So yeah, she looked out for sure. Wow. That's really cool.

Okay, so you get to go to Sacramento. Do you know the team that you're walking into? Are you familiar with these guys? This is a different generation where you can't exactly just go on fucking Instagram

and see their highlights. Yeah. Do you know the guys? I have no idea, but I knew C-Web. I got traded there. Yeah. But he didn't come for like the first three or but I knew, I knew C Webb. I got traded there, but he didn't want, he didn't come for like the first three or four weeks. That's right. Wasn't coming. There's no good soul food in Sacramento. That was the soundbite everybody

glommed onto. Yeah. And his mom was very influential in getting him to finally come. Why? Why? And his brothers too. His brother's like, look, they just drafted a kid from Florida. It's going to pass you the ball. It's gonna be a lot of fun. Oh, so they knew. They knew. Well, they made the trade for C-Web prior to my drafting. Yeah. No, no, I'm saying C-Web's family knew.

Oh, yeah. They were kind of clocking you as well. Well, yeah, because they were just trying to get him to come. Because if you don't come, you're gonna lose all that money, right? But you gotta give credit to that organization for picking you they're looking for a guy who can deliver to people that they believe in and there's a lot of fucking mouths to feed on that team oh yeah it was a really fucking smart decision but if you look back all those guys everybody on that team could pass the ball see what was a great body yeah body was a great passer. Vladi? Vladi was a great passer. Who smelled the worse?

Vladi, right? You know what, man? It had to be Vladi. They didn't smell the worst. They smelled different than we did. It's like, they did showers differently. No, no, we're getting a shower, we're going to shampoo our hair, and then wash the body and whatnot. It's just like they go straight to the shampoo,

bomb and head and chest, and they're out of there. They did nothing. And back then, too, we'd have beer. Bridget White. They did. You know, back then, too, in the league, they'd have coolers of beer in the shower, too, so guys that drank would be drinking in the showers right after the game.

So a lot different now. That's crazy. Wow. Can you talk about early rookie year hazing stories? Sure, man. I'm not even so sure they do that anymore, bro. Really? That's what he's supposed to say.

Yeah. You had a good call. I had some good ones. But when I was coming up telling rookies, like, look, man, they're just trying you. If you do it, you'll be fine. They won't even ask you to do it. So you want some stories of me or some other cats? All of it. Oh, man. The're just trying you. If you do it, you'll be fine. They won't even ask you to do it. So you want some stories of me or some other cats? All of it.

Oh, man. The best of the best. I don't know if you remember this dude named Goran Giericek. He played with me in Memphis. I vaguely remember him. Okay. He's about a 6'6". I want to say Slovenian maybe.

I don't know. But he's coming over here. Most of those guys that come over there, they've already played pro ball over there before they come here. So they don't think they're rookies here. I'm like, no, no, no. You're a rookie. So Ike Austin and Grant Long in Memphis, hey, look, Rook, bring some donuts in the morning. They didn't bring them. Like three days go by like that, no donuts. And now I could tell these dudes, these are some vets. I would be shook up at these vets. You know what I mean? Like, don't piss these vets off because they're real vets. And, like, I could tell, like, look, rook, just bring some donuts.

Just bring some donuts tomorrow for me. Just for me. Because I know what time it's going to happen. And if you don't bring the donuts, it's going to be on your ass. They done gave you three or four chances. Nah, nah, J. Will, I'm not a rookie. I'm not. All right.

Next day, no donuts. So at the end of practice, they put a bin, like a big laundry bin in the middle. We pin our gear up, throw it in the bin so the equipment manager can go wash it. Well, they dumped all that shit out of there. Duck taped his legs. Gear checks the rook. Duck taped his legs. Hands behind the back.

Butt naked. Put him in the laundry bin. Filled it up with ice. Rolled him into the shower bin, filled it up with ice, rolled him into the shower, filled it up with ice water, rolled him out onto the pyramid floor of Old Pyramid in Memphis, onto the game floor right in the middle of the big old grizz. Left his ass there

for like three hours. Nobody found him. No way. That's what I'm saying. So you can't mess with them OGs like that, man. If they ask you to do something. Did he try to fight him off? I'm sure.

But if you know Ike Austin and Grant Long. You're not going to fight them. No. Wow. Not going to fight them dudes. No, sir. How effective was he after? Because Shaq said the only player I could never get to with the hazing was Goran.

Because he was from, I think he was Slovenian. Goran Dragic. And he was like, Shaq, you don't understand where I come from this hazing thing is nothing No matter what you do. It's not worse than where I came from. Yeah, but I don't know if they hog tied They had me one time. We landed in Boston, and the snow was like, I mean, obviously it was a drift, snow drift, but it was like 20 feet high, right? And when we land, like NBA teams, you land, NBA guys are spoiled. You just walk from the plane to the bus.

Don't worry about your luggage. Your luggage will be in the room when you need it, right? So the equipment guys and the airline guys are getting the bags from the safe. So I had to get help with the bags this time. That was my rookie deal. But I had to do it

without a shirt on. Like, you got to do, I want you to help put the bags on. So I'm like, well, fuck, I'm madder than hell. Madder than hell down there, but I'm doing it

because I know I just got to do it. And they're just trying to see if you want to fight it, right? So if you don't fight, if you fight it, it's going to be worse.

So I'm down there madder than hell. I want to open their bags and throw their clothes and shit everywhere, but boom, boom, one at a time. Get on there. I'm like, fuck it. I'm not riding with them motherfuckers. I hop my ass right up under the bus with the bags. Close the door and off we go.

I'll teach them. Nobody has for you. Nobody. Bad decision. Why? It was cold as hell Right For real

But they never asked me To do much after that So I mean Like I said If you just do it That'll be cool with you Yeah Who were you closest with

Do you think on SAC? It had to be C-Web C-Web Yeah Yeah At what point in the season Do you guys really gel And you realize

There's something special happening? I mean, it had to be early because, like I said earlier, we only had 50 games. It was quick. Yeah. But I remember the feeling of that team. And I remember, and keep in mind, this is a time where there's not that much distraction. We're watching basketball on, what, Tuesdays and Fridays. Oh, no, no.

That was a short team. We watched basketball every night. Yeah, yeah. But you're searching when the Kings are going to play. I grew up in New York City. I watched the Knicks. I'm not fucking searching for a Sacramento basketball team. We're searching, like, when is this fucking team going to play?

It was so exciting. We just watched SportsCenter all day. So what are they going to play? Highlights. Who's the highlight machine? You and the Kings. So you're just in our brains, dude. You took over basketball. The Kings and me, not you and the Kings. you're just in our brains dude you took over

basketball the kings and me not you and the kings okay i like that come on bro okay now do you start to feel the fame ever when you're walking down the street do you start to feel the recognition and does that get to you at all you comfortable with it um i guess i like yeah i recognize it a little bit but i don't like even i don but I never really look at myself as that, bro. I'm just a normal dude, man. I can't imagine what it's like to be LeBron and Tagger

and guys like that. Come on, bro. They can't even go down the grocery store and look for what kind of cereal they got out now. Who's Tagger? Tagger Woods. What the Tagger? Tagger Woods. What the fuck? I heard Tagger. This is not Tech Window. I heard Tagger.

Just because we're in New York, I ain't gonna change my accent. You say whatever you want to say, but my brain was working overtime for about three seconds like, what the fuck is Tagger? I thought it was a watch or tag. I am so confused. What Tagger was? LeBron and Tagger. The fuck is tag? I thought it was a watch or tag. I am so good with tag or what? LeBron and tagger.

Come on. LeBron and tagger. God doesn't know anything. No. Come on. Did you see the confusion? I did. I did. Okay, but I like how you just.

I see it in my kids' faces. They make fun of the way I talk. But yeah. You had to make them run a bike. That's right. Come on. Look at that. So yeah, I can't

like the celebrity status and things like that. I never put myself in that situation. But is it uncomfortable for you coming from West Virginia, a thousand people? Florida at the time wasn't a basketball powerhouse. So you're kind of just doing there, which now all of a sudden you're nationally famous. There's a point in time

where you have the best-selling jersey in the NBA. You're aware of this. Well, that's just because these dudes caught some bad passes and made me look good, bro. Yeah, but it's still, you are famous kind of out of never having dealt with anything like that. But do you start to feel that expectation when you're going out there to hoop, or does it not affect hooping at all? Expectation was never there. My only thing I was worried about was my 14 other dudes and my coaching staff as long as they knew that I wanted to win I wasn't out there telling behind the back passes for myself or trying to get on sports center you know I'm saying I'm gonna play this way and if we win then it's just gonna

be on tv you know I mean that's that I wasn't the expectation of me oh I'm going three on one I got to do something for for for y'all to watch on sports center tomorrow and I'd have never entered my mind, bro. Could you see, because obviously at this point in time, you're probably not just seeing people play pickup, etc. But did people tell you how the pickup game started to change a little bit? Anybody tell you that? Like throwing crazy stuff like that? The pickup game growing up was always about getting buckets.

I grew up in the city pooping. I'm trying to cross you over. I grew up in the city. I'm trying to cross you over. I'm going at your chest. I remember watching AI and I was like, I will never back down again. I don't care how tall you are. I'm going at your chest with my shoulder and I'm trying to lay it up. And I remember when you and that Sacramento team were sharing the ball and I saw the pickup game start to change. People wanted to drop dimes behind the back, the no look, and

it's very similar to what also happened with Steph. I've noticed this with AI, you, and Steph. Steph, everybody's three feet behind the three-point line, which you would also do. If I could shoot like Steph Curry, there would be no elbow pass. Nobody's getting touches.

You wouldn't be here. And the Europeans. Okay, but I just felt like a transition going with the game. There was like a truly changed the way, and I felt it became intoxicating even with the team. I remember watching the team like, oh, everybody wants to make the extra pass. Did you feel that? I did feel that? I did feel that, but I mean, basketball is a beautiful game if it's played the right

way to me. And it's so hard if we go out and play for me to get it done or for you to get it done for our team. Like if you use screens and you use and you make the extra pass, it just makes the game so much easier. Like how much easier is it for you instead of putting your shoulder down and crossing somebody up and banging into them and getting a layup as opposed to making one more pass, setting the back screen and going back door wide open?

Boom. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I think it's just, everybody today thinks getting buckets is where it's at. And realistic, it is. Yeah. If you look at the guards, like point guard, people ask me, could I play in today's game? I think I probably could.

I had the talent to do it. But I think I'd have struggled because most of these point guards now got to get 30 or 25 30 points a night for the team to be successful and I didn't have that mentality to get buckets but I also think you would have you've said this before I think you'd be better in today's NBA because it is more fast-paced we joking about the defense but there's not like the you have to play defense all the time you can score and your 30-foot threes aren't looked at as bad shots anymore your three-pointing would be encouraged you would have worked on i just feel like the sacramento team is fine i feel like the sacramento team was a today's nba team like you

had bigs that could shoot threes right right so i don't know i feel like you would transfer to today's game way you have more people that can shoot from behind the arc? Right, and more spacing, too. Like you said. That's right. Everybody wants offense points. I mean, they want offense, right? They don't want 75, 80-point games, right?

Yeah. Yeah, you came up in the lowest-scoring era in NBA history, probably. Right. And now, I think you'd be— Chris Paul's not jacking up a ton of threes, but he's one of the best point guards in the league. For sure. Maybe one of the best point guards ever. Yeah. So I feel like you would actually be better in today's NBA than you were back then. You were a little bit before your time. Man, maybe a little bit. Is it true when you played the Jazz in the playoffs, you told John Stockton, there's a new white point

guard in that league? That's not true. I wouldn't, I wouldn't. I made that up? I don't know. I don't know who made it up. John Stockton was a good player. Was he talking shit? He was a dirty player. He didn't talk shit. He's filthy, right? He's a dirty player. I'm not so sure how much

Listerine he ever had in his mouth either. That's what I'm talking about. But his hands were really big. You know, hence, like, he's all dribbling. He's right off the dribble. Yeah. Like 30 feet, but his hands were big. Like, yeah, he played just a, I don't want to say dirty,

because dirty is kind of like hurt you type shit. Everybody says that, yeah. Like dirty, like grabbing your shorts on the back screen or stepping on your foot so you slow down a little bit. And like in the NBA, all you need is like a half second, whether you're open or closed or guarded. I've heard that about John before. So the competitive advantage, he had quick hands, big hands, a lot of control, but also he was trying to- Yeah, and he got away with a lot of shit too. The refs let him and Karl Malone get away with a lot of stuff in Salt Lake City. So here's the question.

What is it like running into a Carl Malone screen? I try to never do it, for one. But my goal... They're putting you in that pick and roll. For sure. But my goal, I was just going to go under it

every time. Every time I played against John Stockton, the game plan was to go under just to entice him to shoot the jump shot. Because if you try to go over the screen,

now he's in front of you and Carl Malone's rolling. Forget it. Right. Forget it. Right. Forget it. A hundred percent, yeah. But my goal was against Karl Malone, I know I wasn't getting over the screen.

There's no, no. My only goal was just to try to put my elbow right in his thigh. Every single time? Every time. Just maybe one time I hit him good and the next time he's going to come and scream and he was thinking about, man, is he going to put his elbow? And if he moved it, I maybe would slide through there. work not now nope nope carl malone bad boy yeah yeah bro yeah jerry sloan too rest his slow uh soul yeah man i think i'd like to play for jerry sloan i say that from the outside but once once I got in that fire,

he and I probably would have wrestled a lot. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think he'd let you be free. No, sir. Also, guys, Akash Locks are back. Look, I'm going to be honest. I didn't do great last week, but I still believe in myself,

and that's what's important. And even if you don't believe in me, go to prizepicks.com, download the app, use the promo code SHULTS. They will match your initial deposit up to $100. That means if you put in $100, you get $100 for free. So you can trust my locks or don't. Who cares? But here's my locks.

CeeDee Lamb, more than 76.5 receiving yards. He's been on a fucking roll. The Cowboys often sucks without him. I believe in that one. I also think Joe Mixon will get a TD of some kind. I just trust them. Who are the Bengals playing again? Miles hit me with it. The Texans. The Texans defense I don't really

trust. You could also potentially go Jamar Chase, 84.5 receiving yards more or less. I don't know. 84.5 is high, but I also know the Texans defense didn't look great last week, and the Cincinnati offense did. So those are my locks. Go to price

picks. Use them or don't. Either way, you'll have fun. It seemed like most of your coaches really let you flourish. Well, I didn't have much choice. That's the other thing. Now, when I got to Pat Riley in Miami, people say, well, you kind of settled it down a little bit. What was this different offense?

We got Shaq and got D. Wade. Yeah. Those guys got to have the ball. So we'd go down two or three trips and Shaq couldn't touch the ball. He'd be like, hey, I need the ball. I'm like what Pat called 62. It don't matter. Is Pat out here?

Pat's not out here. Throw me the ball. Do you think it's true that Pat saw what he had and then came down? I'm not so sure. Pat was the president at the time. Stan Van Gundy was the head coach. Yeah, for like two weeks. And then.

Six years. Yeah. I don't know if, I don't think, no, I don't think that's how it went down. I think, I don't know though. Yeah, yeah. My opinion is maybe Coach Van Gundy didn't really want to be in that situation anymore and maybe went upstairs and talked to Pat. Well, how can we resolve this?

And Pat was like, well, shoot, I know a way. We could disarm you. That's what we could do. Yeah. So I think that's what happened. Did you hear? I don't want to get you snitching on anybody, so you don't have to answer this, but did you hear grumblings from players?

Like, I don't know if this guy can understand what I'm saying. No, I never heard that because on that team, bro, with all those Hall of Famers and players that they that we had it was like anybody could coach that team right he just had to tell us what time the bus was and what time the plane was so but no i wasn't i wasn't in that group of players i wasn't ever in ever in that situation in my career where i was in those type conversations about anybody you know what i mean so no when you go to the Heat, do you notice, one, a distinct difference between what a championship team is and what you'd been on before?

For sure. And what is that? Day one at training camp in Miami, our only goal was to win a championship. Whereas I think maybe when I played for Sacramento, I never really ever got that vibe ever. Oh, wow. I mean, maybe just because it was Shaq and Kobe out there. You're going up against the Shaq and Kobe Lakers, so there's that.

And I don't, honestly, down deep, I don't know if we really thought we were good enough to win a championship. Winning a championship is hard, man, like in all levels, bro. I heard you say this. You said it twice on All the Smoke. You said, we didn't understand what it really takes to win a championship. Then you said it again, what it really takes. What does it really take?

It just takes so much. It's going to be so much more like film. Everything on a different level from film. You hear it all the time, taking care of your body and things like that. And yeah, NBA guys do what they do. But come 7 o'clock, they're going to be ready to play. And it's just, it's just the ride to the championship

is more enjoyable than I think actually winning it because it's just us 15 guys. We've been together for over half a year. We're with one another more than we are our families during the championship. And you guys were locked in?

Locked in, bro. Who do you think you were closest with on that team? All 15 of them. I know it sounds cliche, bro. It does, but I think that's what it takes, man. I've been on a bunch of different teams, and a handful of them, we could all go hang out and have dinner together. That's so rare. And if you can do that off the floor and have that kind of relationship, then on the floor, when push comes to shove, you're definitely going to trust that guy because you already know what time it is. You know what I mean? Let's talk a little bit about NBA players do what they do because they've loosened things a little bit. Like we, you know, it's cool now.

And then we hear the stories of like the Bulls back in the day, like the gambling and all that shit, the partying and then coming straight from Vegas and all that stuff. What are some of the craziest stories that we don't know about? Thank you for finally asking that. That's a good one, man. That won't get you or anyone, Joe. Well, I mean, all the stories you hear are probably pretty much true, right? I mean, NBA guys are just different. We don't know that.

But different in what way? Man, just. You have to name names. What's the wildest thing you saw? Because you weren't partying, really. No, I didn't go out, bro. I didn't go to no clubs or anything like that. But for the Heat, though, when I played for the Heat, it was like Shaq and D-Wade, pretty big stars, right?

So any city we go to, they're having a party. One's having a party here, one's having a party here. They're having separate parties in the same city. But that party's going to ravine at the Hotel Lava. Yeah, so, I mean. And are there girls just waiting probably? You know, for sure. The NBA is like, I didn't get into that.

Like I said, I didn't go to clubs or anything like that. But to answer your question, absolutely. Really? I mean, it's just like every city. Because we would hear about the girls that would just like stop the team. Find your hotel room. Yeah, they'd find the hotel room. For sure.

Find your alias. Because they're breaking off the Bellman. Yep. The Bellman's telling you, oh, yeah, the Spurs will be here Thursday to Saturday type shit. You know what I mean? So they know when they're coming. What was your nickname for D-Wade again? Boobie.

And why'd you call him that? Well, the Friday Night Lights. Yeah. Oh, Friday Night Lights. for D-Wade again? Boobie. And why'd you call him that? Well, the Friday Night Lights. Oh, Friday Night Lights. If you want to win, let Boobie spin. I'll tell Pat Riley, we'd be down in the fourth quarter and D-Wade's like, hey, Pat, you want to win, you better put Boobie's ass back in. Pat Riley was cool, man. Cool as a fan. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, obviously as a Knick fan, you know. Yeah, I mean, he took care of his players. What is the relationship and why is he looked at as the godfather outside of his, like, hairstyle? Like, explain what he does. I mean, he's just looking out for the cookout, man. He takes care of his players. And, like, the Miami Heat organization is the best organization I've ever been a part of.

Why? Top to bottom, just because the way they treat their players, the way they treat their family, the way they treat anybody that needs to be treated some type of way, it's just first class. What are some of the things they do? Like, say the owner wants us to stay and we go to Dallas and he wants to stay at, let's just say, a Motel 6. Well, Pat Rowley ain't having that because Pat Rowley,

if he was going to Dallas on his own, he's not staying at a Motel 6. So we're going to stay at the Ritz-Carlton or the Four Seasons. Wherever Pat stays, that's what it's going to be. And Pat will pick up whatever the difference was from the hotel. Wow. Right? See, these are things we don't hear about with Pat.

We hear it, and it's like, it's Pat's system. Yeah, you hear about heat culture. But heat culture is really letting the players know that if you buy in, you are going to be 100% taken care of. That's right. You are family. And you're going to have a chance to win too, right?

There's always going to be a chance to win in Miami. Would you have like sit-downs with Pat? No, probably not cordial sit-downs. Probably more like, you know, I'm getting in trouble type shit. Like what did you get in trouble for? I mean, you know, it's just like Pat wrote these things on the board like every game he would mark players like if you were help side D, you get a point. If you weren't, you minus. Yeah.

That type of shit. So every morning we come into practice and shine. Oh, wow. He's doing the plus minus before it's even a statistic in the league? Yeah. Do you guys know what the plus minus statistic is? Yeah. It's basically, you can explain.

I thought it was a stat at that point. Like if they're running a side pick and roll and you're guarding the guy on the opposite side, your job defensively is to be in the middle of the floor to be the help. If you're not there, you get a minus. It's like his own plus. A little thing like that. The plus minus in the league now is just like while you're on the floor, is your team scoring more points or less points than the other team?

But this is like an even more sophisticated version of that. Yeah, all the analytics shit you hear, all this, bought into that. So next morning you know how much am I helping, how much am I hurting. And that's accountability. You get to look at a number. Easy. And now I'm not being hard on you. This is the thing that happens.

So every morning we come in, it's Shaq, D-Wade, all five starters, the last five. He's preaching all year. Look, whoever has the highest numbers this year, they're playing the minutes. They're playing the minutes. Earl Barron, remember Earl Barron? Yep. Yeah.

He had off-the-chart numbers, but he only played average like.3 minutes, right? Oh, we're playing the guys with the high numbers. I'm like, Pat, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. What do you mean? Oh, he didn't like that. He didn't like that. You put all these numbers up here. Shaq and D. Wade, our best two players.

Look, they're garbage. Look, but they average 35 minutes a night. So you need to take that shit. The numbers mysteriously disappeared. Oh, shit. Mysteriously. I don't think, I think Coach Rowley was like, he was the kind of guy, like, don't really like confrontation.

He likes dishing it. But, you know what I'm saying? He doesn't want to push back. I think he don't really push back in front of people. He'll allow the pushback in his office. But I'm the type of guy like, shit, it is what it is. You know what I mean? You're pushing forward in public.

I'm pushing back in public. Of course. I mean, why not, right? Yeah. And I think that sometimes he gets credit for reining you in or whoever you played with the Miami Heat. Would you say that that was more of a decision you made based on the personnel on the team?

For sure. I mean, we didn't run many fast breaks because, like I said earlier, we've got to slow the ball down and get the ball to D-Wade and Shaq. Yeah. I mean, you know, and again, I'm not out on a fast break looking to throw behind the back passes. If it happens, it happens. Yeah.

Sometimes, like, if I'm swinging the ball, if you've got the ball there and I'm trying to get it over there and you swing it to me, for me to take this pass and take it from here to here as opposed to here to there. It's quicker, yeah. Yeah. And like I said earlier, if I take one more, if Ray Allen's open in the corner and I take one more dribble, he's not open anymore. You know what I mean? So he needs that ball right now because that defender is good enough to respond. NBA Finals, probably less than a minute left, baseline jumper that you hit.

Do you remember? I do. If we're looking at TV, it's down here in this corner. Biggest shot in your career? That's to go up two? Game was tied? TV is down here in this corner. Biggest shot in your career? That's to go up two? Game was tied? It probably felt like the biggest shot.

I've probably made bigger shots in my career, maybe. But, I mean. What could be bigger than NBA Finals? Is it the game? Is that the series ending game? It might have been. But I'm thinking not even a shot would be the biggest spot. I remember coming down and I threw it behind the back pass to Alonzo Mourning. And Devin Harris's ass, I looked at the film.

He just, damn, shucked me right into the cameras. And he didn't call no foul, but Zoe dunked it. I think that felt better to me because it felt like that just put him out of reach for sure. Okay, okay. So it wasn't just the lead. It closed out the game. Yeah. But still, it was a ballsy shot. I mean, I don't even know if it was the end of reach for sure. Okay, okay. So it wasn't just the lead. It closed out the game. Yeah. But still, it was a ballsy shot.

I mean, I don't even know if it was the end of the shot clock, but I remember watching it. I remember seeing you. You weren't exactly open, but you didn't even think about it. Like I said earlier, I initiate the offense, and I stand in the corner, and them dudes always told me, if you get the ball in the corner, shoot it. I'm not throwing it to you just to throw it to you.

Yeah. You know what I mean? So I'm like, you got it. I'm fired up. How is Shaq as a teammate? Shaq's great, bro. Everything you see on Shaq on TV, bro, that's exactly how it is. Seems like the best. It's not a fake at all, dog. I mean, that is the way it is, bro. Yeah. Real as it gets. And you guys would hang out like off the court? We would. He used to live in Orlando too, but he sold his house there in Orlando since he's working for Turner. I guess he's in Atlanta now. But yeah, man, that's that dude there, bro.

There's not a better human being in this whole wide world than Shaq, man. Really? I'm telling you. Wait, why do you say that? Just because he's just always looking out for everyone. I mean, you see the stories being at Walmart or whatnot and seeing a family with five people or whatnot. He ended up buying them a van. You know what I mean?

That kind of stuff. It's like Mr. Beast, but not for you two. Yeah, sneakers were sold at Walmart or whatnot for like $30. Made them cheaper so they don't come by. Yeah, yeah. That's the real Shaq, man. That's not a facade, bro, you see on TV from Shaq. That's who he is.

That's who he is, man. How different was his physical ability from the Lakers to the Heat? Oh. Because you played with him and then against them. Yeah, I didn't see much. Maybe his athleticism, maybe, a little bit. He didn't jump as high. But Shaq is the most dominant player to ever play basketball to me.

It made him change the rules to his own. Yeah. I mean, it's like you can't stop that dude one-on-one. Yeah. And then you send a double team down, which is usually a little guy like me. Forget it. He's not seeing none of that, bro. Yeah.

He's going to eat all of us on the way. Yeah. Do you have any stories where Shaq helped someone out that people don't know that you saw where you're like, oh, he picked up a tab here or did something for someone? No, I've never seen. Like I said, I didn't really go out things like that. So I wasn't ever in that situation. Yeah. What about the greats? What about the greats? Great greatest you've played with, against? Who are the people that you remember you're reflecting? You hear, obviously, names, Kobe, Dwayne. Every night, man, it was like a dream come true for me, bro.

Remember Speedy Claxton? Yeah, of course. Bro. People ask me all the time who's the hardest dude to guard, and Speedy Claxton was like... Stony Brook, right? Hofstra. Or Hofstra, Long Island. I knew knew it was a long island school yeah like they were really like when he played in golden state he had speedy claxton was a bro yeah and he had four white dudes that could shoot the joint right they were really the first team that really ran four guys out and just shooting three so they ran a high pick and roll with speedy claxton

they had dunleavy and uh and. Troy Murphy. Yeah. Bro. And that high pick and roll with Speedy, he was so fast. And if he got around you, it was a layup. And if the help came, it was just spraying it for threes. So when people ask me who was one of the hardest people I had to guard, when I say Speedy Claxton, they're like, fuck Speedy Claxton, you know what I mean?

What about most underrated player? It doesn't mean you have to guard them, but just in general. Who's the person you don't think gets enough flowers? I'm going to say Andre Miller. In my time, Andre Miller. I loved Andre Miller, dude. Interesting. Bro, like, he didn't even lace his shoes up tight.

Like, he was old school, like, take his shoestring around his ankle and then time in the front, okay? And this shit would be so loose and it's like, his game was so awkward and it's like, like, if you watched it from afar, you'd think he was garbage. Yeah, yeah.

But at the end of the night, you look at the stat sheet and he's out like 27. He played for a while too. 12, 12. Like, unbelievable. Hmm.

So that's the answer. And a lot, eight out of 10 folks aren't even going to know who Andre Miller is. Yeah. I feel like you were playing while the league was transitioning to, like, I would say a softer league.

Right. But do you feel like right now versus when you started, is the league soft? I don't want to use the word soft. I just want to say I think the league has made it more offensive. It kind of takes the defense out of the game. They've incentivized the offense. They don't want to see Flager foul. You know, Flager foul offensive. They've kind of taken the defense out of the game. They've incentivized the offense. They don't want to see flagrant fouls. You know, flagrant fouls, they get fined.

And then, you know, we're going to review and all that shit. Like, just let the refs ref. They're going to miss calls. Yeah. You know, just like players are going to miss shots, right? Let them be human. So, to answer your question, I don't think it's softer. I think the players are still physically dominant more than any other sport.

You know what I mean? I think NBA athletes are the best athletes in the world. I'm not being biased. I just think that those guys have a better chance to crossing over to a different sport and being successful easier than, say, a football or hockey or baseball guy coming to play basketball. I could be wrong, but that's just my opinion. You know what I mean? Sorry.

You play for the Heat. You guys are talking about it. You're down 0-2. You're down 14 in the fourth. I'm a Mavs fan. I'm ready. I think it's over. Yeah.

What happens? Is there something in that huddle? I heard Pat Riley just wrote season on the whiteboard during a timeout. Does any of that stuff matter? Or is it just? It's not true. He wrote like, I don't remember the exact words, but it was like, some of the long lines, I'm only packing one tie, one suit after this game.

During the timeout when you're down 14? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I mean, he could have just meant you're getting swept. It was close. It was close. Oh, believe me

I know that timeout killed him man I'm telling you that timeout was all downhill wait wait what happened well there was

a free throw we were shooting a free throw no they were shooting a free no we were shooting a free throw and there was

like 8 seconds or something like that left I think I remember this yeah and they only had one timeout left so they would wait

until after the second foul shot to call a timeout and then they advanced the ball and take it out up there on the front court. So Avery Johnson was like, we want a timeout after the, you know, well, what was his name? Oh, damn, I forget his name.

Josh something. Josh Howard. Josh Howard. Yeah. He was looking at Avery Johnson's calling one timeout after the second free throw. Well, Josh Howard called it in between. I remember this. I remember this.

Oh, my God. The referee didn't have any choice, but he got to blow the whistle and call a timeout right now. So now they're out of timeouts. They can't advance the ball. And, you know, they got to race up the floor like six, seven seconds and get a bad shot. Wow. Hmm. Is Joey Crawford as mean as everybody says?

No, I think he was fair, man. Even Scott Foster, the guy that got in. Not Scott Foster. The Donahue guy. Tim Donahue. Wow. Is Joey Crawford as mean as everybody says? No, I think he was fair, man. Even Scott Foster, the guy that got in, not Scott Foster, the Donahue guy. Tim Donahue, yeah. He gave all that championship, too. He was fair. You know, honestly, I thought he was one of the better refs in the league, bro. I never would have imagined.

People are gambling on you. This guy's making all the calls. That's what everybody's saying. Because people are gambling on you. You're right. This guy's making all the calls. That's what everybody's saying. He's a piece of shit. That's right. And look back on it. It's easy for a referee to gamble. Because if you call two quick fouls on Shaq in the first quarter,

he's out. He's got to sit out the rest of the half. So you might have over or under in the first half or whatever. That's really interesting. You can change the game. Two little calls. Yeah. Two little calls.

You take ten minutes off a Shaq playing. Or a technical early on Draymond Green in the first quarter. Now, he got to play the rest of the game without- Cautious. He's not talking back. Not the same. He's not into it. So you could change the game.

Yeah, it's not about waving off a shot. It's not about waving off- You could change the game the first fucking quarter. I feel like he's the only one who got caught. Yeah that's because other guys might have danced yeah because how much of these guys getting paid that's the other thing they got a lot of responsibility for not making a lot of money yeah and usually when their jobs where you have a lot of responsibility and you aren't getting paid according to that responsibility there's some corruption for sure like you see that with cops a lot right like all all aspects of life, bro.

Yeah. There's levels to everything and everything, right? Yeah. And what about, like, vets? Like, did you think the vets get a little bit nicer treatment? I don't say the vets. I think guys, the stars, for sure. Yeah.

I mean, and did you get a little, like, you don't think? Them referees was, fuck them referees. Shit. Wait, what? I love them all. I had a good relationship with all of them, but I didn't get nothing. Nah.

Nothing. What did you want? What did you think? I mean, I just wanted to be fair. I mean, if a fucker push me, just call a foul. Yeah. I mean, a little push on me is sending my little ass way over there, and then, you know, you breathe on Steph Curry or what, just saying a star's name, you know, they get the foul call, right?

Yeah. I don't like that. Now, I understand that he's going to get more calls than me. Yeah. But, God damn, throw me a bone every now and then. Yeah. You ever get into it with the ref? Of course I did.

I remember like it was yesterday. It was in Dallas. Back in their old arena. Their old arena. Payback. Yeah, it's like you had to, both teams exit the same side down there on that end. But our visiting bench was away. Most teams come out of the locker room and their bench is right there.

So I'm in it with Bob Delaney. I'm in it. Like, fuck. And he's like, keep on going. And when you're done, let me know. Then we're going to throw you out of here. So I'm like, all right, well, fuck it. I kept on going a little bit longer than expected, right?

And she said, are you done? I said, yeah, I'm done. He said, bang, all right, now you're out of here. And I'm still cussing. I'm walking towards my bench, going to the locker room, right? Madder than hell, I got kicked out, cussing him the whole way. And I get down there, and I realize, fuck, I got to walk all the way back. So, I mean, I didn't have no choice but to start cussing him back on.

I'm walking all the way back down there. But, yeah, that was probably the coolest one. That was the coolest one. Your boy, he saw me walking out of there and gave me a big hug after the game. It was good. Your boy, Nick, was telling me when you were playing at Mensley, you got into the ref one time. No, Mensley, I get into refs, man, like.

One time maybe you were running at them? There's multiple. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Multiple. This is an awesome story. These referees in these men's leagues have no idea, right? They're just happy.

Really happy to see me. Let's just keep it real. They're happy to be reffing my game, right? So these refs start cheating, and I'll just get. Start cheating. You're an NBA player playing with guys that work at UPS. I ain't got nothing to do with that, though. Just because I worked a little harder on my ball handling doesn't mean, you know, a foul's a foul. And now I'm to the point now, back it up a little bit,

we're just talking about the stars getting called. Yeah, yeah. I'm the goddamn star now. You're on the call. That's right. Finally I should get in. And they're thinking the opposite way. They're like, no, you're not.

They're thinking like you. I play in the NBA. Yeah. You can foul the shit out of me. Well, what type of shit is that? Yeah. That's like the point. That's like the argument.

That's like the argument when people talk about LeBron and Jordan. Yeah. They talk about, well, the bad boy Pistons beat Jordan up and LeBron couldn't handle it. Well, no. You're saying that the bad boy Pistons was good because they just fucking took you right out of the air? That doesn't make them good.

But anyway, back to the rec league. So the referees are cheating and whatever, and I get to the point where I get the ball full speed and the refs, I'd run right at the ref full speed and escape. Like, dodging right at the last minute. He's, you know, backing up down near falling. But I don't think that was the best one. I think the best one, we're in Miami.

Hold on, is that so on the fast break? He'd cross up the ref. At any time I got the ball. He would cross the ref. I'm running right at the ref trying to run him over. Yeah. He tripped him, the ref tripped. Oh man.

No, you dropped a ref with a crossbow? Bro, like I said earlier, the hell with these refs. On all levels. You break the ref's ankles. I've been handled so good, you fucking break the ref. That's crazy. The best one, though, in Miami. I got two good ones.

We got time for two. We have all the time. We got to get Nick in as well. And we got a coach going. Get with it. So, look, we're playing Miami in a summer league. I'm playing with Tim Hardaway Sr. He's great.

He's like my idol now when it comes to referees. So, we're playing, and he gets kicked out of the game. It's like we're three minutes into the game. He gets kicked out. He's got the ball with him. Won't let out of the game. It's like, we're three minutes into the game. He gets kicked out. He's got the ball with him. Won't let anybody have the ball. So he's like, fuck it. Y'all want the ball?

You can have the ball. He laced his shoes up on the way out. He unplugged the scoreboard. Bum, bum. From the scorer's table. Took that with him so nobody else could play the rest of the night. Hold on, hold on, hold on.

If I could have that scoreboard signed by Tim Hardaway, bro, that would be priceless. I'm sorry, I thought this was an NBA game. No, no, no, no. This is a rec league. This is a rec league. Taking my ball, and I'm going home. They took the scoreboard. Wait, how many ex-NBA guys are hooping in this league?

It's a pretty good league. Oh, so this is high, high. It's a pretty good league, yeah. So it's my turn the next week. I'm in the same referee. Tim's not there. You've got to sit out a game, right? No fine, no money.

No money sounds good. So we're the same referee cheating us. We're down. All of you cheated, bro. We're down. We can't win. We're down five with like four seconds. But it's our ball.

Okay. Call a timeout. Just to piss the refs off to get going. So I tell the guys, like, just do whatever you want. I'm going to bring the ball inbounds. So the ref hands me the ball. And I don't know if you all know, the ref's got the whistle in his mouth. And as soon as he hands the inbound to the ball, he's only got five seconds to bring it in.

So he's one, two. And I'm like, I already know what I'm going to do. Nobody knows, though. The ref's standing right there with the whistle. So when he gets to five, he's going to blow his whistle, delay a game, whatever. He gets to four, and he gets about right there. Boy, I yanked the whistle out of him. So now, he's standing there like.

What you going to do? like What you gonna do? He was like, that's the game. That's the game. That was my favorite one. You love this rec league. So NBA guys just go to rec league to torture refs because they could never do it in the league? Well, no, not necessarily. We're going to torture the refs if they try to act

like they know what they're doing. Gotcha. They got no clue. They got no clue. You played in the big three? He did. That's what the knee. I played the first year, yeah, and I tore the ACL the first half of the first game. What happened?

You know what, man? I was just, it was crazy, man. I was just dribbling. I did a jump stop. Trying to cross over a ref. Nah, them refs, it wasn't full court, so they wasn't in my way. I just jump stopped, bro, and it just full court so they wasn't in my way. Like, I just jump stopped, bro,

and it just felt like my knee felt like it kept going. Ay-yi-yi. Then it started burning. It was bad news. Were you warmed up for it? Had you had knee problems before? Like, I'm just... Never had an injury before.

I mean, I twisted an ankle. Yeah. Never a significant injury ever. Did you have the, what is it, Osgood Schlotters or whatever that shit is called? Like, you used to wear those little. I wore those little fluke things because Vince Carter wore them.

And I thought, hell, maybe I'll start jumping a little bit higher if I start wearing these. Son, I started wearing them because you were wearing them. And then I couldn't play without them. No. Yeah, I think I got so used to them playing. But, I mean, I thought they looked cool, too. I thought this was a health thing because i would have sometimes when you're growing when you're younger you can get some pain right yeah

but they didn't help me but i was like ah jason got it i was just trying to jump like vince motherfucker oh that's so funny now this rec league was mostly like ex-nba guys but apparently there were some current nba guys that might also play in the rec league. Is that true? Like maybe if you were playing for the Magic, would you ever sometimes go play? Oh, yeah. It was like to the point where my last— You brought fucking ringers to the men's rec league? He's the ringer. So I'm on the Magic.

While you were playing? I'm on the Magic's roster, right? And they started—they signed Chris Duhon to be their backup. Gave him some money. I love Chris Duhon. Yeah, backup. Gave him some money. I love Chris Duhon. Yeah, Dookie. Bad decision. Orlando Magic.

You know how the Heat's the best organization in the world? Orlando's the worst? What? Don't tell me that, bro. Come on, bro. Don't tell me that. Don't tell me that. Chris liked to throw them back, too.

Chris is my guy. I ain't mad at Chris at all. He'll get all that bread. But that organization? You guys see the garbage truck driving around, right? You see the juice that's dripping from the back? That's the magic.

Don't say that. Not the organization. Not the team. Not the players. The organization just got the wrong people running it, man. That's my opinion. What do I know? Yeah.

You know what I mean? And you got some money out of them? Yeah. I mean, I'm just putting levels. You know, the heat. I can only tell you what I know, right? Yeah. What was so bad?

Just no care about the players? No, or players that have been through there too, they don't even care about. I could call Miami, I could call Memphis, I could call Sacramento, and we all could go to the game, and we're all sitting on the floor. But you live in Orlando. I'm right there. I've been trying to get to Orlando since day one. Let's rewind all the way back to the beginning of my draft. Chuck Daly, did I tell you this story? Rest his soul. He was the coach of the Magic.

And me, I wanted to go get drafted by the Magic my year, but they had 11th pick. I knew I wasn't going to make it that far. So we had Bryce Drew. Remember Bryce Drew from Valparaiso? Hit that shot and then dove on the floor in the NCAA tournament? No. Okay.

Another white dude. Another white dude about my size. We went down there and worked out one time, and I did my thing against Bryce Drew that day, and their general manager called my agent back and said, we'd like to bring Jason and Bryce back in. We didn't know who was more athletic. Well, that lit a fire under my ass because that's another reason the Magic

organization did that. How could they not know? Oh, my God. athletic. Well, that lit a fire under my ass because that's another reason the Magic organization did that. How could they not know? Oh, my God. This is like, it's night and day. So we go back, we set it up. Sure, let's set that up. I told my agent, let's set that up. So they're thinking about driving Bryce Drew before me. You're crazy. Right. So we go in, we go in and work out. Before the workout starts, I'll go over to Chuck Daly. He says, come here. He says, look, I know who's more athletic. I know who's more talented. They want to do this. We're going to play one-on-one right from the get-go.

I got a tee time in an hour. Let's have this thing over in about 20 minutes. I said, yes, sir. How long? Shit. Bryce Drew got a better chance of pissing in a hot sauce bottle than me. I'm telling you. Ain't no chance.

What happens to those guys in their workout? They're fighting for their life, and you're cooking them. Like I said, do they get chippy, or do they just melt? It's probably the same way as when I try to guard Russell Westbrook. That's the way I feel. What the fuck am I going to do?

Yeah, what happens with Russell? You just got to hope he misses. And you're just backing off. Just trying to get a hand in his face. If I get a hand in your face, like Allen Iverson, if I get a hand up and you make that jump shot, what can Coach say? That's right. Now my big guy's not mad at me for coming over to help, not getting in foul trouble.

Let's go back down. What the hell? Yeah. Wow. So Orlando sucks, huh? To me, man, it's just the organization. They got the players. They got the talent.

They got all kind of talent. But you would play Reckley and Madigan. Oh, yeah, it's just the organization. They got the players. They got the talent. They got all kind of talent. But you would play rec league and magic. Oh, yeah, back to the story. So back then when they signed Chris Dewan, I was out of the rotation. So I'd be at practice all day or whatnot. I'm like, well, shit. We got a game at 7 at the rec. We practice from like 2 to 4, and then I go play in the men's league at 7.

They're paying you millions of dollars. And then you're playing for free. That's right. So, Otis Smith was the general manager at the time, called my agent. Like, hey, look, Dan, he can't be playing in the rec leagues. He said, well, shit, he got to get his run somewhere. You know what I mean? And I always had a, like, I don't know how many guys,

if they still have it, like, for the love of the game clause in a contract. Oh, yeah. Can you explain that? So, if something, have it, like a for the love of the game clause in a contract. Oh, yeah. Can you explain that? So if I'm driving home from practice or something and I see a pickup game and I want to go hoop. You can do it. Right. If I get hurt, I've still got to get my bread. Yeah.

There's a contractual, I guess, permission to play whenever you want because you love the game. I don't know if they still have that or not. I thought they stopped that when you saw Kobe started playing in streetball leagues and then they were like, yo, we got to chill out because if you get hurt. I think the Drew League and things like that, or Rucker Park or whatever. Those are carve-outs? Or if they get NBA sanctioned, where the NBA could come in and check out the facilities and shit, like the floor, make sure all that shit. Rucker Park was. Yeah, I don't know if Rucker Park was.

I don't know what the rules were. Did you ever play up there? No, I was just talking know what the rules were. Did you ever play up there? No, I was just talking to Nick. How the fuck did you not play? I know, bro. I wish I would have. We were talking about riding. I've never even been there.

I want to go step foot on the Rucker Park. Oh, go up there. What about Drew? No, they tried to get me to play later on in my career, but it was, I didn't have what the Drew Ligg fat crowd wanted. You know what I mean? I feel like you do. Oh, yes.

You have exactly that. I feel like. Minus the skip. You're what I mean? I feel like you do. Oh, yes. You have exactly that. I feel like... Minus the skin. You're a little light. But outside of that, I think you would have what they wanted. I think, you know,

that's another thing, like the black and white issue. Like, once you get on the court, bro, if the bros or the white boys could see that you could hoop, they didn't care what color you were. You know what's funny? There's like,

I think there's all this credit like that you were hooping like a black dude. But I don't know any black dudes in the NBA that were hooping like you. I think we saw streetball. But you were playing in such a unique way that it was always really funny to me. That's the ultimate street cred. You playing like streetball. Of course, 100%. But it was like, even the name White cred. You playing like street ball. Of course, 100%. But it was like, even the name White Chocolate, right?

It was as if every other black dude was playing like this. And it's like, no, they weren't. And even when Rafer came into the league, Rafer wasn't getting off like he would get off in Am1. Yeah, I don't know if Rafer had the opportunity. You didn't have the opportunity. You just did the shit. Well, I mean, when I got drafted, I was the only point guard on the team,

so I had the keys. I was going to rock. He let me rock. And Rick Adam, shout out to Rick Adam, my coach for Sacramento, he told me in the first game, he said, you know, if you come down and throw a behind-the-back pass and it goes out of bounds, he said, don't worry about it. Next time, try it with your left hand. So hearing that kind of like.

First time you've ever heard that from a coach probably. Well, I mean, or maybe I was told I wasn't listening. I was going to do what I wanted to do. Did that fuck with you a little bit or did it put a battery in your back? I think it kind of put a battery in my back because it's kind of like, look, he got my back, man. He's like, he knows I'm trying to win. So whatever I got to do to win, that's what I'm going to try to do. Yeah.

Did you ever have, like, you obviously have all these amazing passes and assists? Did you ever have one that was embarrassing where you're like, yeah I'm gonna do one behind the back and it just went all the way up in the stands You're like, oh fuck. I'll probably have more than one Probably more so in practice. Yeah, we all like in practice. I didn't really care You know like I was back to the point like if I messed up so many times What you gonna do make me run? Well, that's just just gonna benefit me so i'm thinking yeah because at the end of practice we're gonna run as a team but i ain't gonna run as hard as if i got in trouble i'm

over here running by myself because i'm gonna try to run hard get back in the game you know man in the practice i don't care about that that's cool perspective you can't punish me because it's just gonna be better yeah that's cool like now all these high school kids like going to school on tuesdays and thursdays and homeschool and stuff like that. Where was that shit when I was around? Man, I would have been somebody if I could hoop all day every day. Yeah. You know what I mean?

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And to your chance to win Morgan & Morgan. Let's get back to the show. All right, guys, we're going to take a break for a second because some of you stink. Come on. No, I mean that, Mark. Okay? You smell awful and your soap sucks. But lucky for you, Dr. Squatch has got your back.

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listen, get it for your family, okay? It's a nice, I don't know, subtle diss. You get to let your cousin or your aunt or somebody know that she smells horrible and she should clean up in a nice, fun way, embarrass her in front of the family, okay? Dr. Squatch right now is giving you a deal that they've never offered before. If you're a new customer, you're gonna get three free soaps and a free shipping with the buy three, get three bundle when you use our link. That is drsquatch.com slash flagrant. That is D-R-S-Q-U-A-T-C-H dot com slash flagrant. Get yourself six bars of awesome smelling Dr. Squatch soap. Now let's get back to the show. They did make apparently a rule for you or a rule about you.

Apparently after you retired and then you went back in the league. Apparently you retired because you were going to the Clippers and you were like, I don't really want to do that. And so you retired and then you went back with the Magic, right? With the Grizzlies. With the Grizzlies. Yeah. And so what was the law they put in? I forget the name of that law.

I forget. They did name it something. Yeah. I think they called it the Jason Williams Law. Maybe. Like the Larry Bird rule. Larry Bird rights or whatever. How about the I don't want to play for Donald Sterling rule?

Well, there was some stuff went down, you know, and over the summer. You want to keep him away from your wife. There you go. There you go. Turn away, chocolate. But, yeah, I think that was the best thing that happened for me is not to go to L.A. probably. I mean, definitely, I was going to play for the, not that it mattered about the money, but I was going to play for the league minimum on that deal.

And by the time my wife and my kids got out there and we rented a house and shopping and all that shit yeah i'd have been in the red bro so it's probably wow interesting so did you retire because you don't want to go to the franchise because you were done you felt you were injured or like what brought you back ultimately um i just i think maybe michael hosley was the owner of god rest his soul he was the owner of the grizzlies what paid me my first big contract my only really really big contract. What was that one worth? Like $40-something million. How does that feel? It felt great.

I mean, it ain't shit today, but can you rationalize it? Does it even make sense? It doesn't. It didn't make any sense. Your grandma's giving you a dollar and all your boys a dollar to get a big goal. In that moment as a kid, you're like, I'm the richest guy on the fucking planet. Oh, man. You couldn't tell me nothing. And then you get a 40... How much? 40... Like 43 or something?

43 million dollar contract. It was... And they didn't really have to do it. You know, my agent was like... It was like on a Friday. They were having discussions. Friday, he called me. He's like, they're going to offer you 40 million, but... I said, but the what?

But what? He said, we're going to offer you $40 million. But I said, but the what? But what? He said, we're going to wait until Monday. Maybe I'll get you some more. And I'm thinking, well, what if they change their mind? Yeah. You know what I mean? Because that happens. Were there other offers out there?

You never know. Well, that happens. You saw that happen with the German kid. Yeah. Well, what if the owner's buddy comes in and says, man, why would you sign that kid for that? When you can get him for this. You're giving him three days to think about it. Yeah, bro.

What's the kid's name? He played great in the black German kid. I can't believe. Oh, Dennis Schroeder. Dennis Schroeder. Schroeder was offered. He turned it down. He turned it down.

It happened in New Orleans, Noel. Now, is he turning it down or is his agent advising him, hey, turn this down. We have something else. And then he ends up getting a contract worth a fraction. Dude, there was a guy who played for the Heat, Anthony Carter. There was like an option on his deal for like 25 million, and his agent forgot to make the call to pick up the option or whatever, something like that. And then he lost 20 million in the 90s, bro.

Yeah, I don't think it's the agent's fault. You need personal accountability. At the end of the day though, you're the guy. You're working for me. 100. You need personal accountability. At the end of the day, though, you're the guy. Yep. You're working for me. 100%. You need personal accountability. But I do understand a kid who's never been offered that kind of money and all these people telling him, oh, we got a deal coming in from this team and that team.

You can kind of get lost in it. Well. Okay, so you get your 43. Do you sign it that Friday or do you wait till Monday? Wait till Monday. Oh, that must have been terrifying. Awful. I'd rather they not even told me that.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Oh, no. Because if the deal wasn't there on Monday, Bill Pollack gets his ass whooping. Yeah. Right? Yeah. No choice.

Absolutely. So you get it and then is there a first purchase? Do you tell your friends? It's public knowledge, but do you feel like you have to share that info with your family? What is the first thing that happens? I'm thinking, so yeah, for sure, my dad. My dad and I were close, so he knows everything. He signed my agent for me, really. He chose my agent. I would have took the first 5,000 you gave me from any agent. I would have been stuck to it, so he knew what time it was with that. He interviewed different agents and picked this one.

I would have never picked this agent that I had. Not, never. Because his personality wasn't like what I wanted or he and I were totally different. But you needed that shit. He was great. Yeah. He was great. Think about that. He connects you with Nick. You hoop him with Orlando. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. And how'd your dad know all this? Was he like a businessman? My dad was a state policeman in West Virginia, man. Oh, wow. No-nonsense kind of guy. And when I got in trouble smoking weed in Florida, I was more worried about him and what his friends were going to think of him.

Like, you've been a state police for 20-something years, and now your son's smoking pot or whatever. You know, like, how's that going to make him feel some type of way? Yeah. Did he? I think it hurt him for sure. pot or whatever, you know, like, how's that going to make him feel some type of way? Yeah. Did he? I think it hurt him for sure. But everything worked out, bro.

Could he who? He was a good player. He was a twin. He had a twin. He was a more all-around player, but his twin brother was a better shooter, better scorer. But yeah, they were good players. They couldn't receive a scholarship because they played in some kind of men's league growing up and received like a check or some money. So he kind of see that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's also probably where he was like, you got to be wise. Have the right guy. Okay, so 43, what do you buy? First thing I bought was a Range Rover. Okay. I mean, I grew up in a trailer in West Virginia, bro. Like, I never had a house until I got in the NBA.

Yeah. Wow. But you couldn't tell me nothing. And you got the MBA. Wow. You couldn't tell me nothing. And you got the range. Yeah. I bought some cars and things like that, but I never really splurged on it. Anything dumb? I'm sure there was some dumb stuff like a big-ass earring or some big old diamond number or something like that.

It wasn't dumb then. You know what I mean? Yeah. But you managed the money well. Yeah, I'm good with that. You know what I mean? I know you got other investments. Yeah, things like that. It wasn't dumb then. You know what I mean? But you managed the money well. I'm good with that. I know you got other investments. I've been pretty cool with that. Just living life now, man.

We were talking about Orlando and this has kind of been a news topic in the news. Gay players in the NBA. Yeah. Is that something that's going down? Do people know about it? Shit, Orlando had Dwight Howard. No, what's going down? Do people know about it? Shit, Orlando had Dwight Howard. No, what's his name?

John Amici. He was one of the first ones to come out. He was the guy. Does that throw off chemistry on a team? Does a team not want to get playing? Also the Collins brother. We always talk about how hard that is for the other brother. Yeah. They're twins and nobody knows which

until it's too late. Jason and, yeah. Jason and Jared. Yeah. You gotta come up with a hairstyle deal or something.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right, right. Go team a home or something.

For sure, it's definitely, there's definitely gay players in the NBA and it's like, there's probably gay players in all sports, right?

Probably gay guys in this room. Maybe, you never know. Never know. And there ain't nothing wrong with being gay, right? You know what I mean? That's what you want to do.

Dwight would take you guys on shopping sprees, right? Wouldn't he? Dwight, man. He would take us on shopping sprees. Looking back on that, are you like, what? Man, looking back on that, I don't even know what's going on with that situation or what's real and what's not. But all I can say is, bro, he's one of the most dominant basketball players ever. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Top for sure. For sure. He would strap him on and just get at her. Yeah. Big D. He was the D player of the year. Yeah, yeah.

Three times. Three times. Three times. But back to your question. Shout out Dwight, though. Shout out Dwight, bro. The life should be top 75. I don't care what's going on out there or over there. It's top 75 player.

I don't think there's enough attention played, especially to the early partner's career. That's Superman, bro. That's Superman. It's crazy. We're going to get back to the answer to that. Yeah. Like how many guys played? There's only been like 52 5300 dudes yeah that's played in nba since its existence does y'all know that yeah so he how many guys can you name that can

change a game the outcome of a game without scoring a basket how How many? Bill Russell. Okay. Dwight Howard. Yeah. Shaq, if he wants to. Who else? Just those three right there. Come on, bro. Maybe Wilt. You're looking at big guys, rebound, defense.

Draymond a little bit. You know what I mean? No Draymond in there. Ben Wallace. Maybe a little bit. Oh, Ben Wallace, yeah. But I hear you. That's what I'm saying.

Like I said, all the other shit that he's got going on in his life, I don't know what's cracking over there. And he was doing it with distraction too. That's the other thing. Most players get to just focus on the game. He's got to not think about how hot everyone is. Come on, man. That's Superman, bro.

That's Superman. Hey, Superman. Come on, dude. You're right Superman. Come on, dude. You're right. Live your life, bro. When I played with him in Orlando, bro, I never got that vibe. You know what I mean? I never, I mean.

But everybody that I've heard has said that he's the most generous, sweet teammate, like is in shape, is working out. They are in shape, usually. This. Yeah, they are in shape usually. This guy's crazy. Come on, bro. He's crazy? I'm talking about NBA players. What is he even talking about?

I'm talking about NBA players are in shape, dude. Come on. For the most part. Yeah, absolutely. But back to your question of, like, for sure, I don't think it messes with chemistry. Like, if you've got championship aspirations, like, realistically look at it.

Like, at the beginning of every year in every sport, not just basketball, there's three or four or five teams that realistically have a chance to win a championship that year, right? Like, you know, like, I'm a Viking fan. They can't win a championship this year. You know what I mean? Or like, the Magic. If they're down there in their locker room

thinking about a championship this year, they're bullshitting themselves, right? You know what I mean? Seriously. So, when it comes to that, if a gay guy is on a team that has championship aspirations, during those two hours for that game, it ain't going to affect the team at all, in my opinion, because he knows what time it is. The gay guy knows what time it is when he gets on that court because he knows

what these guys want to accomplish. And if he got some bullshit coming in, these guys ain't going to allow that cat about that. I'm sure you heard Stephen A. speculate that's why Dwight didn't get signed. Right. Because of that. Do you think that would really stop a player from getting signed? Me personally, no.

If I was the owner of a team, I'm trying to win. So if you can help me win, I'm signing you, bro. Like all this hoopla about Colin Kaepernick and things like that, I'm sure he can still play. But I think if he was good enough to help an NFL team win,

he'd be on the team. They'd deal with all the other bullshit they had to deal with later. Yo, I heard an interesting thing about Cam Newton because the Cam thing was, is he good enough to be a backup yeah yeah the but

the problem is cam ain't a backup and a buddy my derrick postman was talking remember we were talking to derrick about this and he was like yeah cam isn't a backup and he's gonna just attract so much attention on a team that the second the starting quarterback has an off game all of a sudden all the media is talking about hey why don't you put cam and one so it puts this pressure on the team that is unnecessary and looking at like that i was like oh it's not like hoops it hoops is a little different like you want to stack your team you want you will get time yeah injuries and all that yeah there's no backup quarterback that rotates in and out.

See, I think if you got a guy like Pat Riley running the show, he sees that before I'm signing Cam Newton. You know what I mean? He sees that. And he's already telling the media, look, if you write this bullshit, you won't be in our locker room. You won't get no more interviews. Oh, can Pat control that?

Pat Riley? Like, tag or say tagger? Tagger. Yeah. Pat Riley controls what it is. If Pat Riley wants something, he's getting it. Really?

Yeah. So he is the godfather. Fucking right. And the players fall in line with that. They respect it, or what is it? Yeah, they respect it because he respects them. Like, he's taking care of them. He's protecting them.

He's taking care of them. He's putting you up at the Four Seasons instead of the Motel 6. You know what I mean? Do you wish you had played for him earlier? No, not really because I don't think I'd have been who I was. Because he's, you know what I'm saying, he's like. It's a tight leash.

Yeah, he's not going to, no fast breaks. It's more half court ball. You know what I mean? I can't, yeah, I can't imagine. Defensive too, defensive minded. They got to average more defensive three seconds than any team in the history of the NBA. I mean, dare the referee to call it. Dare you to call it.

Really? Why? Because they're just sitting in that paint. Yeah, and the referee is Pat Riley over there. Do you think he intimidates even refs? For sure. But refs get back at him, too, now. Steve Jabb.

Remember Steve Jabb? Yeah, yeah. We're in Cleveland. We're on like a four or five-game road trip getting our asses handed to us. It's like the second quarter, we're down 25 already. Pat Riley gets a technical. Two minutes later,

he's trying to get another technical. Steve Javi comes over during the time and he says, hey Pat, if I got to watch this bullshit tonight, so are you. You ain't getting kicked out tonight. That's great.

Wow. I always say I want to write a book, but if i wrote a book bro i'd have to name names and stuff like that and i would take away my relationships with people and stuff like that because i've got so many stories like i could tell like you guys would love them man tell us man i can't i can't i can't i can't put my guys out there you can take a name we can bleep name we can bleep if it makes you feel more comfortable. I just love the information age we're living in. Because you see there's so many guys that have played in the league,

and they have these incredible fucking stories from what goes on. But I think I'm a little different at most because I'm so infatuated. Like I said earlier, I don't look at myself. I get to sit down beside Gary Payton on a bus. That's amazing to me like i get to talk to alonzo morning yeah or shaquille o'neal or duane wade or or get to try to guard russell like that's crazy to me like i get to do that bro like i don't look at myself like like i'm looking at them dudes like those dudes are like heroes to me bro like alan iverson like alan iverson

giving me that bro that's like crazy whatverson? Like, Allen Iverson giving me that, bro? That's like, what? Have you ever had imposter syndrome? Say again? Did you feel that you belonged in the league? Based on play, yeah. Yeah, based on play, but like what I thought of the NBA and what I've heard of the NBA, like, I don't, I'm not,

you know, like going to clubs and things like that. I'm not against any of that, but that just wasn't my thing. You know what I mean? So that part of it I thought maybe I'd have maybe not fit in and maybe guys would look sideways at me. But like I said earlier, once you get on the floor and you can hoop, bro, nobody cares what nothing is. What happened with GP?

Did you guys ever have a convo about it? No, but I've been around the convo when it was happening. It was uncomfortable, the first one. Can you give us the breakdown? For sure. We get to Miami. I get traded to Miami, and then they sign him in the offseason, too. Well, the play.

Okay, okay, okay. So we're getting there. I'm coming to work out. He's just getting done with his press conference because he just got, he signed there as a free agent. He got on the freshest Air Force Ones too, like fresh. You know, I'm like, oh, man, that's Gary Payton. Like, I'm getting like, whoa, and I already got that in my pocket. Like, is he feeling some type of way at me because I did that?

Because he was talking so much shit to me that game. Like, I was terrified. Yeah, like, I'm not. Can you tell them what you did? Can we tell the fans what you did? Just a refresher. The move? I mean.

The crossover. I mean. Well, I think that what doesn't set. Maybe even go one play back. Yeah, what doesn't set that up is the one play before that I hit one from, like, Steph Curry range. And Gary didn't step out. No, he didn't step out. He was just, yeah,

he was just trying to keep me out of the paint, which got no chance. And Gary painted the glove, got no chance. Like I said before, I don't even remember what part of the game it was,

but up to this point, he's talking mad shit to me. Like I'm like, What's he saying? Like white boy this, he ain't da-da-da-da. I'm like, oh, like, is he serious?

He's like, I've never been in no racial tension at all. And he's calling me, I'm like, whoa. like, is he serious? Like, I've never been in no racial tension at all. And he's calling me, I'm like, whoa. Like at Florida, you know, the football boys, Ike Hillier, Fred Taylor, they call me white boy. I knew what time it was with them because I done blew it down with them. You know what I mean? That was cool. But this was like, I don't know this guy.

And he's like, is he serious? Like, does he really hate me because I'm white type shit? You know what I mean? Like, I'm just out here hooping. I don't want to do nothing. I don't want to, you know, you're my idol type shit. Is he bringing up history? Is he talking about... Like, wishing I would say something.

Really? Like, every time he says something or they're not, they're like, he's looking at me like, yeah, I wish you would. That's like all other players playing in Boston. Yeah. Act up. Act up. Act up, boy.

It's a whole lot of that, yeah. But C-Web's taking my, he got my back. He's talking for me, blah, blah, blah. So C-Web's talking back to you. For sure. GP's like, yeah, I wish he would. And then I hit that 30-footer. And then next time I come down, he had to step up.

And I didn't really notice that he tried to – I don't even know if he still – I don't know if people say he tried to try to – So you fake like you're going to pull up. Fake like a little hezy, and then this – it really wasn't really like a big crossover like Allen Iverson or anything like I would want to do. Yeah. It was just like a – He bit on it hard.

If you just like lean in from that corner a little bit if you just look your eyes you're beat if i'm full speed you're beat yeah and he looked he just kind of leaned that way and off i went that way he stuck his leg out he tried to trip you for sure he tried to trip yeah but uh gp that's my guy yeah um i wasn't nothing intentional. Yeah. I mean, it was. You intentionally crossed the line. He was talking harsh to me. So then you see him. Harsh, yeah. So we see him down there.

We see him in the white, I see him come out of his press conference. I go and I'm like, I don't know how this is going to go, but I'm going to go show my love for sure. That's respect, whatever. And I go and I step on his Air Force One. No, Jason. Yeah. Come on, bro. Yeah.

That wasn't an accident. I'm thinking for sure. If he don't swing on me, his home Force One. No! Jason! Yeah. Come on, bro. Yeah. That wasn't an accident. I'm thinking for sure. If he don't swing on me, his home is swinging. So you kind of just played it off, blah, blah, blah. But then everything was cool there and we get on the first road trip. Something we brought up

on the bus about. Who brings it up? You know it was Shaq. Yeah. I already know it was Shaq. Okay, so what's that? GP took it like a man. He's like, yeah, you know, everybody's going to get got, right? You know, especially like, Okay, so what's that? GP took it like a man. He's like, yeah, you know, everybody's going to get got, right?

You know, especially like, it's like shot blockers. Lonzo Mourning is going to try to block every shot. But he's going to get yammed on every one. He's going to get yammed on every now and then. But he's going to block a lot of them. Yeah, yeah. You know, just ask Vince Carter. So, but GP took it like a man.

Like, yeah, everybody gets got. I'm sure there's other plays that GP got crossed up or beat on, you know what I mean? I think it was GP's face afterwards also because it wasn't angry I'm gonna go knock this kid out or something like that. It was, alright,

who the fuck you got me? I think that as a fan watching, it's nice when there's neutral respect against competitors. Yeah. You know what I mean? Since that move, not one word has been said to me. Really?

That's my guy, though, to the end, bro. I was fortunate enough to have great teammates, but he ranks right up there, bro. Really? Fabulous dude, bro. I mean, fabulous. I wish he was here right now, bro. Harsh competitor? Harsh.

Yeah. At everything. Wait, what else? Pool, fabulous. I wish he was here right now, bro. Harsh competitor? Harsh. Yeah. At everything. Wait, wait, wait. Like what else? Pool, bro. Pool. Anything you're doing. Flipping pennies.

Cars. And he does everything left-handed. The only thing he does right-handed is hoop. Everything left-handed. Wow. Yeah, man. That's interesting. Gary Payton, man.

One of the baddest dudes to ever lace him up. What about the games that you guys are playing outside of basketball? So,'re on the bus, you're on the plane or whatever like that. Is it cards? What is everybody getting competitive about? It depends. Definitely a card game going on. And what's the game? It could be Bure here. It could be, well, we call it in between, like AC Deucey, where you flip up a card here and then flip up another card, and then you bet how much money of the pot the next one will be in between those, hence in between. Yeah. But they'll put like six decks in there.

You know what I mean? And when we got on the plane, we'd get an envelope full of per diem. If we went on an eight-day trip, it'd be a lot of money, right? So everybody just gambles the per diem. Well, yeah. But the rookies, they throw that shit in there, and them rookies lose that per diem. Boy, they want to jump out of the plane right away. I never played in those games.

I would be the dealer. Oh, you didn't gamble? I didn't gamble because you're going to lose. You don't really have any vices. Is that why it was frustrating when they were trying to put the weed thing on you? Because it's like, yo, I'm not partying. I'm not chasing bitches. I'm not chasing bitches. I'm not doing any of this stuff.

And I'm smoking a little weed. And now I'm the drug guy. And now I'm the bad guy who doesn't care about the rules. And it's not like it was performance enhancing. If anything, weed is the opposite, I'm thinking. We're hoops. I'm thinking, what's worse than me smoking a blunt or Vladi smoking a motherfucking cigarette?

I mean, he was smoking what? I'll be in his room. Yeah, because he's smoking cigarettes. That's going to mask the weed smell all day. All day. Come on down. So you were helping his. Vladi's in the fourth quarter.

He's fucking throwing up. Can't breathe. I mean, he ordered a room service, too, because he got more bread than me. So we put that on his room. Dude, is that a thought? Like, even though you're in the NBA, you're still, like, money conscious a little bit? I mean, I think so. I mean, if you're smart.

What's the rookie contract? What's the rookie contract? I think now, like a vet, like a lottery thing. No, when you were in the, yeah, you were. I don't know, probably, probably, let's see, five years at probably two three four five six and it was five years they would lock the rookies in yeah and now it's what three yeah with an option right right go go oh my god so you they've locked you in for five years oh so i mean getting that first getting a pick oh man and he was a seven six so he had a pretty good contract.

Yeah. Second round pick. But, I mean, you're completely changing a franchise in two ways. You can add vets and spend on vets. Right. Kind of like a quarterback. You get a rookie quarterback, you ain't got to spend that much. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. Oh, shit. Okay, so you're thinking going into it, because your agent's getting some, your manager's getting some. Obviously, you know, taxes. You're sending some money back home. Just an agent, no manager. Oh, you didn't have a manager? Really?

Yeah. And what does an agent take in? Most of it takes 4%, but he's going to take up to what I tell him. But I gave him 4%. I mean, fuck. Right.

Shit, you give me this, you got to buy. I could give him 4%. Bro. Yeah. So you said no manager. But then like endorsement deals, he could take maybe, that's different, whatever y'all work out.

Right, right. Because I heard endorsement sometimes it could be up to like 20% or something crazy. Could be, yeah. Yo, did you get a Nike shoe? Was there a shoe coming up? That was another rumor. You had a shoe? I don't know if it was, it wasn't actually my shoe.

I don't say so to speak, but they put me in it. The hyperflake. Yeah. It wasn't, for my foot, but they put me in it. The hyperflake. Yeah. It wasn't, for my foot, horrible. Bro, for mine too. Yeah, no support. Yeah. It felt like you were just in like an old pair of wrestling shoes.

Yeah, it was. Right, yeah. But they made you wear them? You had to? The purple ones, remember? Yeah. And then back then when I played, your team had to wear all black or all white. It had to be 49-51.

Yeah. Like white. Yeah. to be 49-51. Yeah. Or you got fined. I'm like, well, what are we going to do here? These are all purple. The whole thing. We'll pay the fine. We'll pay the motherfucking fine. Wow.

They did the Jordan shit. Yeah. Okay, so there was never supposed to be a shoe that was yours. That was the rumor. You were getting a shoe. No, I don't think so. I never heard it. I mean, Nike had you front and center on some of those commercials.

They did. That shot of you running back down court, wooing. It's just like I remember that. Also that one with the dribbling where they had the squeaking the sneakers. That guy really sat there and squeaked his sneakers on the floor to make that. Bro, it was crazy shit. Wow. What is the best sneaker?

Today? Yeah, for you and your team. Oh, man. Them Kyries, bro. You like the Kyries? You don't like the Kyries? Later on in my career, the LeBron, it was a favorite for me because right out of the box, it felt like I'd been wearing it for three weeks. It's so big.

I figured you would want like a small, slim shoe. You know, I had to put my orthotic in the shoe. My orthotic was big and sturdy and hard, you know what I mean? So it didn't matter. I was quick as a hiccup, bro. I was getting where I had to put my orthotic in the shoe. My orthotic was big and sturdy and hard, you know what I mean? So it didn't matter. I was quick as a hiccup, bro. I was getting where I needed to go. Yeah. Yeah, what are your thoughts on Kyrie's game?

The best offensive package ever? You think he's up there? For sure he's up there. It'd be hard to put him at the best just because his jump shot's not... That's right. But ball handling, he's the top as it gets for me. He's the best

ball handler ever. And why? Just because I think not only that he can handle the thing, but he can get through cracks and crevices like no other. And then spin, and then puts him above everybody. He can finish at the rim with either hand. The finishing ability is insane. Yeah, that's just like, I don't think we'll ever see that again, not in our lifetime. Yeah, it's hard to even compare him to somebody from a past

generation. I'm trying to think of what that, it's not AI, because AI was blowing by you. Right, he was just a crossover and gone. And Kyrie can have you on his head. Kyrie can have you spinning in circles and still standing right here and then go by you when you turn back around. Yeah. And finish.

So why do you think that, why do you think that he struggles, he struggled so much later in his career to win? I think mentally maybe. I think it's just, it's my opinion. I think he's just trying to think. He's got too much shit going on in his mind.

Like back when he was 16, 17. It was one thing, basketball. Killer, right? It's basketball. And now I think, I mean, it's part of the job, though. I think he feels maybe some pressure that he's got to take the Indian people or tribes or whatever he's dealing with, whatever. He's got to put them on a map type shit. Maybe he feels that. He feels a social responsibility.

And you got your championship, so that's off his shoulders. That's interesting. Have you seen that with guys? You don't have to say names, but guys that were just so incredibly gifted, but mentally you just saw them break down. For sure. There's been so many, like, just right here in New York City, how many guys,

like we were talking about Rucker Park earlier, how many guys come through Rucker Park that are way more talented than guys in the NBA that just can't do it, bro, mentally. You know what I mean? Not even talking about the drugs or any of that, just like you put a referee out there that's going to call defense for three seconds or offense for three seconds.

Now, this dude can't even play now. Who was the most mentally impressive player you played with and against? For sure it's Kobe against. For sure. Why? Just because he's just so cerebral. All these game plans for a start, game plans are made for guys like that. We're going to try to not stop this guy, just limit.

You know what I mean? Like when we played the Spurs, you can't let Duncan get 30 and Parker get 25 and Ginobili get 25. Just go ahead and let Duncan get 50 and try to keep Parker and Ginobili under 10. You've got a better chance of winning that way because if all three of them is getting 20 and 30, you're getting your head drugged out. You know what I mean? And you're not going to clog that. So it's like Kobe was like, so we put these game plans for guys like that, and Kobe specifically, like the fourth or fifth possession,

the game plan's out the window. He done figured the bitch out. He done figured it out, man. Like these guys are too good. Done watched too much film. Kobe's done seen every defensive scheme we're going to throw at him. More than we've worked on it because he's watched more film than we've worked on it. And everybody's trying to throw it at him.

Everybody. He's done seen every type of defense, every type of pick and roll coverage. He's done figured out the best way. And I think guys like that just learn to be patient in the first quarter. Yeah, we're going to come off this pick and roll. We're going to pick you apart with Shaq. Shaq's got 30 in the first half. Who's going to get all the points in the first quarter. Yeah, we're going to come off this pick and roll. We're going to pick you apart with Shaq. Shaq's got 30 in the first half. Who's going to get all the points in the second half?

Shaq is going to be double teamed. Now Kobe's getting all the looks. Wow. So guys like that are just on. There's levels to everything, bro. In the NBA, you've got a level here, and then you've got guys like Kobe and guys like that are just. Best you've ever played against?

The best player I've ever played against is LeBron James. Yeah, I was wondering about that. I played against Jordan back when he played for the Wizards, you know, and... Yeah, what was that like? It was great. I mean, everybody says

it was back in the old days or at the end of his career where the bitch had 31 at halftime. Oh, my ass. I'm glad I didn't get none of them Bulls days, bro. Yeah, dude. But...

But just being on the court with him. Oh, it's unbelievable. I get to play. He has a golf course down in Hopestown, Florida, and I'm fortunate to get to play there a lot. Oh, really? Yeah. Have you played with Mike?

Never played with him, but every time I go there, that's the only thing I want to do is see Mike. Yeah. And, like, I could be on the first green, and I'm like, where's Mike? And Mike is so different looking. Like, I can see Mike from way, way over there. Like, oh, yeah like where's Mike and Mike is Mike is so different looking like I can see Mike from way way over there like oh yeah there's Mike way I catch myself like gazing yeah like the first time I shook his hand the first time at the golf course I was like he was like J Will what's up shake my

hand and I was like he was like yeah I don't want let go. I'm looking dead in his eyes. I could just feel him like, bro, let go of my hand. I didn't want to let go. He just has that effect on me. It's just like, that's Michael Jordan, you know what I mean? What do you think Mike's competitive edge was? People talk a lot about skill. They talk a lot about shooting ability, IQ, but is there a thing specifically that you thought set him aside? Just wanted to win, man. Yeah. He didn't care.

And that's easy for me to say that he didn't care, but at the end of the day, he's going to have a huge say in that win. You know what I mean? It's like, it's kind of arguing like when you argue the LeBron and Jordan thing, you say LeBron's a better basketball player or, you know, well, MJ wasn't a good teammate. He didn't make the extra pass, but he won the goddamn game. He won the goddamn game. So how can you argue that? Yeah. Yeah, I heard it was like, I heard someone say this, that he can lock in 100% for any game.

For sure. It doesn't matter what it is. It's like it could be game 43 of the season. Yeah. any game. It doesn't matter what it is. It could be game 43 of the season. And I imagine game 43, sometimes it's hard to lock in 100%.

You're beat up, your knees are sore, all these things. It's easy to take a little bit off. But MJ could lock in. That's why he's one of the greatest, if not the greatest. Who's your... What have we got? LeBron, I want to hear about. A quick story about Bob Knight. I just heard this yesterday. Rest his soul. Rest his soul. He told me a story about Jordan. I want to hear about? Yeah, a quick story about Bob Knight. I just heard this yesterday.

Rest his soul. Rest his soul. He told me a story about Jordan. Or I saw the story about Jordan. He said they were playing in the Olympic. He was the last guy to coach a basketball team from America to win a gold medal that didn't have professionals. Professionals, yeah. Right? So they're at halftime, and they're playing.

I forget who they're playing. And he's saying they're up 29 points, yeah. Right? So they're at halftime, and I forget who they're playing, and he's saying they're up 29 points, USA. And Bob Knight's walking across the court to go in the locker room at halftime. He's like, what am I going to say to these guys to get them going? Like, they did everything right. What am I going to say? And he grabbed his stat sheet as he walked across. He said Jordan.

He saw Jordan's name. Jordan played 12 minutes in the first half. He had 19 points. He had 11 rebounds and 9 assists in 12 minutes in the first half. He had 19 points. He had 11 rebounds and nine assists in 12 minutes in the first half. Wow. And he's thinking, what am I going to say? I got it. As soon as I opened the door, I see Michael Jordan in the first one.

So what do I do? I said, God damn it, MJ, what are you doing? Are you going to set any screens tonight? I haven't seen you set one damn screen tonight. And he said, he said MJ looked up with a little grin, not a big one. He said,

Coach, you remember last week when you told the whole world that I was the quickest person you've ever seen on the basketball floor? He said, I'm setting them so quick

you don't even see me. I thought that was a good story. Fucking legend. Yeah, man. Bob Knight was a legend. Yeah, Knight was. I heard there was the Phil Jackson story. I think it was Mike. He said, Knight was. I heard there was the Phil Jackson story.

I think it was Mike. He said, Mike, you know, there's no I in team. And Jordan goes, there's one in win. That's right. That's right. Michael Jordan was just different. You see how that wasn't that bad for me? Some of you guys put different substances in your hand.

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So if you notice it even going a little bit, you get on it immediately. And right now, Keeps has a special offer for you. If you wanna go get that special offer, you go to keeps.com slash flagrant. That is K-E-E-P-S.com slash flagrant. Go there, get that special offer, get your hair back, keep your hair. Now let's get back to the show. Was there ever an arena or a venue that you played at that was really special? The first time you ever played at the Staples Center or the Garden or something like that? Well, Arco Arena for sure, man. They had the best fans ever. Yeah. And I'm not just saying that because I'm biased. Yeah, the cowbells and all that stuff that was loud and we were the only thing going there we could

lose 12 in a row and they're selling out the next game you know um but the special gems to me was like old seattle arena um phoenix's arena i just always shot good there so that's why i'm choosing these yeah um and did it make a difference like that physical space that you were in like the actual arena makes a difference in the game? For sure, like the backdrop and things like that. Early on in my career, once, like I think after my first year, you get used to the background, but there's nothing like playing

at Madison Square Garden. I didn't know nothing about the circus animals that they kept in there. I didn't even know there were different players. Nick City dancers? We don't call them that, Jason. I'm sorry.

They do some filthy things. But Madison Square Garden is dark. You can't even see the third row up. I think that's cool with all the lights on the floor. You hear that, bitch. It's a good spot. Did you ever get nervous before games? I think, yeah,

I got nervous before every game, I think. But I think it's in a good way. Like, as soon as the jump, whoever controls the tip, the nerves are gone. Right? I mean, it's just hooping.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there was never a game that you're sitting in the locker room just like, fuck. Oh, yeah. Every night, I had to guard these motherfuckers. Really?

I'm not, like, nervous. It's like, man. This is about to suck. Yeah, but it's fitting to suck for them too. Yeah. What about finals? Was GP really supportive

of you during that final? For sure. Like I said earlier, man. Because he's competitive too. You know he wants it. He hit a big shot in that finals too. I think it was game three.

Passed it. That's the one I remember. Yeah, that's the one that broke out. I told him, I said, look, GP, look, D-Wade ain't going to be open. This is for D-Wade. And you know Shaq's not going to be. I'm not, I said, look, GP, look, D. Wade ain't going to be open. This is for D. Wade.

And you know Shaq's not going to be. I'm not fitting to throw to Shaq anyway because it might have been late in the game. Yeah, he might have a few free throws, yeah. So you told him he's getting a rock? Yeah, because the way it was spread out, GP's man was over there by D. Wade's, and they're shading to D. Wade. I said, look, if I throw you, and I was always the kind of guy, if I throw you a chest pass, a crisp pass in the air, you're open to shoot it.

You know that. But if I throw you like a bounce pass, a crisp pass in the air, you're open to shoot it. You know that. But if I throw you like a bounce pass, kind of maybe a slower one or maybe kind of behind you, then you've got to realize that the defense, you've got to do something once you get it. It ain't like a catch and shoot type thing. But if you get a crisp one from me, you've got plenty of time. Hoist it. Right. And I was always the kind of guy, too, like J.J. Redick, for instance.

He definitely shot the ball better when he caught the ball seams as opposed to catching it. He has to flip the seams before he shoots. Would you find out? I'm catching that ball. And as I'm catching it from you, I'm turning the seams here to set up. So are you finding out how each guy likes to shoot the ball and then delivering it that way? Well, I'm finding out, but not in the way I want to find out. You know what I mean? But I'm a guy, I'm trying to get assists.

I'm thinking there's more assists. I'm getting more money. I'm going to make. Wow, so you're changing the seams on the ball. I got to for some guys. What you mean in the way you found out?

How would you find out? Like yelling at them. Let them know. I'm two for seven. What you mean? He said, well, the third and fourth pass, the seams came sideways.

Fuck, how do you remember that? I think I saw something of you saying that, like, you're trying to deliver it. For certain guys, you're trying to deliver it on the side they're going to shoot, so there's less movement. Right. Like Steph Curry, I think what sets him apart, other than making the bitch, he's doing all this shit with the ball, and he's got the ball here. He can get it.

He can get it from here to here and off so fast. Yeah, where certain guys, they need it. Like J.J. is knocked down, but he needs it right here. And J.J.'s what, 6'4"? He's usually got a 6'7", 6'8 guy. If he's got a flick that's not open no more, he might have to put it on the floor. Yeah, the margins are so slim. Yeah, Matt Bonner.

Remember Matt Bonner, the redhead? His? Redhead? Yeah. Bonner. Oh, I thought you said so slim. Yeah, Matt Bonner. Remember Matt Bonner, the redhead? The redhead? Yeah. Matt Bonner. Oh, I thought you said Matt Barnes. No, Matt Bonner. The red mamba.

Yeah. He would, he is catching shoot percentage when he played for the Spurs. One year was like 60%. If you made him put it on the floor one time, shit went down to like 17%. So just get that fucking rock on the floor. Yes. Make him dribble. Back then, now there's probably analytics guys getting you this oh yeah back then they're just yelling at you and that's how you're learning right but guys like shane battier yep bruce bowen yeah bruce christie guy these guys are looking at all this stuff you ever ask shane battier why his

scalp looks like that no this no i mean shane battier's a great dude, bro. But he's an amazing dude, but he has little vaginas. You know, he does. Like band-aids type shit. He'd be a good guy for your show, bro. I would love to have him on. Yeah, he'd be a good guy, but I used to sit beside him when I played with him in Memphis, and he would play Jeopardy on the computer, right?

And I'm trying to play against him. But he doesn't have the bitch read the answer. He'd answer it before I'd even read the question. So I'm like, no, this ain't going to work. God, that's so funny. Everybody else is playing in between, and he's playing Jeopardy. That's right. Just a different level.

And looking at how many times Kobe goes right. Like, he would look at, like. Oh, he's really trying to break it down. Oh, he don't know how many times. If Kobe dribbles twice to the left, he's going to pull up this way. Or if I force him right two, three dribbles, he's going to spin. Every time he takes three dribbles to the right, he spins back. Wow. Yeah, he's going to pull up this way. Or if I force him right, two, three dribbles, he's going to spin. Every time he takes three dribbles to the right, he spins back. Yeah, he's that deep. Well, don't they call

him the no points all-star? Wasn't that his name? Shane Battier? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Apparently. That's the New York Times article written about him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Apparently when he's on the court, everyone scores more points. Like, the whole team goes up, and when he's off, it's going down. He's one of those guys that affects the game. Yeah, but his individual scoring stats weren't amazing. No. And he was that dude at Duke. Yeah, he was. The's one of those guys affects the game yeah but his individual scoring stats weren't amazing no yeah and he was that dude at duke yeah he was the guy charges and

all that yeah he's okay two things have you found it hard for guys to transition from being the superstar their whole life to role players in the league that's a tough question too i mean i don't i don't that's hard because i don't know who was stars you know i mean what like what aren't most guys stars like isn't everybody in the nba when they were in high school they were the patrick beverly was dropping 50 a game when he was in high school right but when you say star did you know patrick beverly in high school okay that's fair that's fair you're a local yeah Yeah, maybe. Yeah. I think all of us are probably all local stars. Yeah. And I think those guys like myself and Pat Beverly's of the world know who, you know, there's levels to everything. I just admire those guys who are able, like Pat is a perfect example. He was able to transition his game to what could create a very

long career in the NBA. And I feel like there's certain guys that maybe they can't do that as effectively. For sure, there's guys like that. But I try to tell kids all the time today, like, everybody can't score 25, 30 points a night, right? Yeah. So like Steven Adams, prime example. Yeah. Can't score for nothing.

But he's going to be in the league as long as he wants to. And guess what? He signed a $100 million deal for rebounding and setting screens. Playing D, bro. And you probably love playing with a guy like that. Oh, for sure. Especially if you're one of the Kobe or LeBron kind of guys. One of them kind of guys all day.

Russell Westbrook. Like you ask Steph Curry and Klay Thompson if they want to play without Draymond Green. They're going to say hell no. Chance. As soon as one of them leaves, that shit's done. Really? If Draymond Green left there, they're not winning no more hell no. Hell no. Chance. Defense. As soon as one of them leaves, that shit's done. Really? I think. If Draymond Green left there, they're not winning no more. Interesting.

If Steph Curry left there, they're not winning no more. Yeah. And the same goes for Klay Thompson, right? Yeah. So you brought up LeBron. Why was he the best you've ever played against? I think LeBron's the best because he just makes everybody around him so much better. Where it gets back to the point where, well, Jordan won the game, right?

Yeah. So how do you argue that? But my point, like, Jordan, like LeBron, when he, at the end of the game, he's got the last second shot and he penetrates or whatever, and he's got three guys on him, he passes the ball, right? That's what you're supposed to do. And Jordan's just rising up and shooting it and making it, right? Well, back then, it was like the defense was different.

Like when Jordan caught the ball on the wing, it was just him and the primary defender. Next thing is the goal, right? Where now LeBron gets the ball on the wing, got the primary defender. You got the weak side block, slides over the ball side block, and you got a guy at the elbow. So LeBron sees three guys. Yeah, so passing makes more sense than it would back in the day. Three guys. Yeah.

So passing makes more sense than it would back in the day. Yeah, I just think LeBron could lead the league in all five major statistical categories. Blocks, rebounds, assists, points, all that if he wanted to. Where I don't know if MJ could have done that. Because he didn't. I'm not saying he couldn't have, but the mentality that he had, he was just going to get on my back and let's go. I'm going to get there. You know, people say I probably put Jordan above LeBron, but when LeBron left all three of his teams,

they never made the playoffs. When Jordan, his first year when he was playing baseball, the Bulls still made it to the conference semis, I think. Yeah. I think they lost to the Knicks in six or seven. Yeah. And check it out. Jordan always played with not taking nothing from Michael Jordan.

Of course. Pippen. Yep. Horace Grant. Horace Grant was good. Dennis Rodman. Yeah. Tony Kukoc Horace Grant was good. Dennis Rodman. Yep. Tony Kukoc.

Ron Harbaugh was nice. Kukoc. And, oh, by the way, Phil Jackson. Oh, that guy, Phil, yeah. LeBron, who'd he take to win a Cavs? Boobie Gibson? Yeah, Boobie Gibson. Andy Varajow?

Yeah. Good players. Yeah. Good players, but they're not Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman, right? Mo Williams. Mo Williams. Mo Williams. Great player.

Yeah. But come on. I think you could put LeBron on any roster in the NBA right now. Just put him in there. They get to the playoffs. Yeah. Even the Raglass Magics organization. We'll take him.

Yeah. I'll take him, too. And Bronny, too. Come on. Yeah. Come on down, man. Post-career, how difficult is it going from every single day of your life is dominated by playing basketball to no longer playing professionally? Yes, it's tough.

I'm still going through it a little bit. Are you? Yeah, I mean, I'm just so bored with my life. I can only golf so much. Yeah. I guess my kids were younger when I first retired. I got three kids. One's 22, one's 19, one's 15.

So back then it was okay because they always had something to do. But now it's like it's just me and my wife and my youngest daughter. So I'm always looking for something to do. I wish I had something that I felt like. The same passion and love? Yeah. So it's going to have to be basketball, what, like a developmental coach or something like that? Yeah.

Like as a head coach. Some people are like, why don't you coach high school basketball, things like that. And I couldn't do that. The responsibility is too high for me. I'm not the most responsible guy. But, you know, to help, like, to be an assistant, whereas I didn't have to show up every day, things like that, I could dig. But where can you find that at, right? Yeah.

But I think it's tough. You know, like you got to find something. Like I like that, I could dig. But where can you find that at, right? Yeah. But I think it's tough. You know, like you got to find something. Like I found golf. I love golf. Yeah. But like I said, I can only golf so much. Yeah. I wish I could just be in the ears of some of these young kids

and tell them my perspective of that pick and roll coverage that you just messed up. Yeah. Where like I think some of these coaches are like always just hounding, hounding, like what'd you do? You did this wrong. You did. Yeah. Where, like, I think some of these coaches are, like, always just hounding, hounding, like, what'd you do? You did this wrong. You did this wrong. Well, tell me. I want to know, like, why'd you do that?

Why did you go under the pick and roll that time? Because I was the same way. Let me explain to you why I did that because you might find, like, oh, that might work, but it might not work for Kobe. It might not work for Jason Kidd. You know what I mean? Like, Pat Riley was cool with that. Hubie Brown was good about that. I played with some coaches.

It was just like, nah. This is how it's done. We're going red. We're going red. Yeah. You know what I mean? So it's obviously a tough transition. Yeah, from the outside perspective, and again, like I only see you on social media and stuff.

But it felt like you really were spending time with family, obviously trying to find other things to distract you, be at golf or whatever. Sometimes you see people kind of act out or they party or they drink. They're kind of like holding on to the last semblance of like that fame. But it seems to me it's not the fame that you miss. It's just like the being passionate about a thing. See, I don't miss the fame because I didn't even see the fame. You feel me? Like I'm still living my life the same way I did when I was hooping.

I'm just not hooping. Yeah. You know, I'm still going home and doing what I do, you know, messing with the kids, whoever's at the house or whatnot. I'm the type of dude, I just want to have a good time and laugh, bro. Like even if it's at my expense, if you're laughing at me, me i want to laugh with you just be ready so like like when i go golfing and i'm fortunate enough to play a lot of good golf courses where i have caddies and things like that yeah um it's more important for me for that caddy to have just as good if not a better day on that golf course as me just because if if i'm an asshole to you and you're an asshole to me

now we got to spend four hours together yeah we're not going to have no fun, bro. You're still giving. I just want to have a good time, man. I still want to whoop your ass at golf. Laughing is more important to me. How's the knee, though? Can you get back on the court? My knee is okay. I could probably get back on the court if I did a little working out

prior to giving me a month. But I ain't trying to get sore and shit like that. You know what I mean? You ever go back to Bell? I go back to Bell I ain't trying to get sore and shit like that. You know what I mean? Yeah. Okay. You ever go back to Bell? I go back to Bell. I was just in West Virginia not too long ago doing a little autograph signing for the kids

and things there. I try to get back one weekend out of the summer to do a camp for the kids, man, because West Virginia is tough. Not much going on there. And when I was living there, it was probably the same. But looking back, man, Bell, West Virginia was the greatest thing ever to me when I was living there. Um, it'd be hard to go back and move there. Yeah. Uh, but going back and giving back to the kids and things like that is, is prices. Do you think that contributed to your humility? Like growing up in a place like that,

that's like a small town where the people are humble? You know, I, I don't know whether to say yes or no. I just, like, what I want to say is I've been like this my whole life no matter what. I mean, you guys put your pants on the same way I do, and so does everybody else. So just because I hooped and sold a jersey or two or like that or took a picture with somebody, that doesn't make me no better than anybody else, man. So at the end of the day, when I leave out of here, I just hope you guys will be like, yeah, he was a cool dude. Or your homies ask you about how was J. Will.

You know, I heard he was an asshole. Nah, bro, I was the total opposite of that. You know, that's the only thing that I worry about in my life from here going forward. You know what I mean? Like, just a cool dude, man. Any interest in doing TV? No, because I can't be real. You know what i mean it's like i i'm authentic and and i ain't i ain't

i ain't gonna say what a producer wants me to say yeah now i might touch up on that yeah but i gotta say my how i feel you don't think that they would let you do what you did here um uh i don't know yeah you're not that mean of a guy well I feel like, yeah, you're going to protect the people that you want to protect. You're going to tell the funny stories that often make people look funny. But then again, if I feel like I got to say this, it might hurt somebody's feelings. Like Hubie Brown, best coach I ever played for in my life. Yeah.

He told me early on, he called me the bunny, Energizer Bunny. But anyway, that's a different story. Why would he touch? Just because I'll be at practice early and I'll be the last one to leave.

I'm always playing two-on-two with somebody. It was just practice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm trying to, you know, me and Bo Outlaw, remember Bo Outlaw?

Yeah, of course. We'll beat anybody two-on-two, I think. Really? Yeah, bro. Because he's not going to shoot everything. He's going to set off screens

and let me shoot it. He's going to get the rebound. We're going to have a good time. But Hubie Brown told me early on, don't ever leave anything inside. He said, if you leave something inside, you'll get an ulcer. You might get an ulcer. And an ulcer will be way worse conditioned than as if you said something to hurt someone's feelings. So ever since he told me that, bro, then I'm just like, I'm just going to leave it out there. Because I think if I leave it out there, at least it gives the other person a point of view of where I'm coming from.

Whereas if I'm trying to hide it or sugarcoat it, now they're looking at me some type of way. Whether I'm right or wrong about that, I'm probably going to be wrong in a lot of people's eyes for saying what I feel, but that's just what I am and I'm not going to change. Shit, I'm almost 50. My life's on the way down. Fuck, I'm going to change for now. Why is it on the way down?

Well, I just, you know, my life expectancy is such only a certain age. You haven't even got grandkids yet, man. Well. That's going to be crazy. That would be crazy. Yeah, that might fill you with a lot of part. Grandkids might be crazy.

I mean, I feel sorry for their mom and dad. Grandpa will be all right. Yeah. You must love New York, though, because your persona is like love New York though Cause you're Like Your persona Is like a New Yorker

Like just say how you feel Yeah Oh well this is us I like I like New York But not in the winter Oh okay You know what I mean

I grew up in the snow And stuff like that So but yeah I like I just like going where I'm appreciated You know what I mean Where we can just

Chop it up like this bro And You gotta Take a trip to Rucker Park where I'm appreciated, you know what I mean, and where we can just chop it up like this, bro. You've got to take a trip to Rocker Park, though. I'm going to. As soon as we get up out here, we're taking a ride over there. If we see anybody or not, we're going to ride over there just to get a pic for sure. Last thing I was curious about personally is I heard that you like magic. Yeah. You like card magic.

For sure. Are you good at magic? What's magic, really? It's sleight of hand, so I feel like you might be all right at it you know i love magic rick barnes back back to the provenance days he was a magician he had some tricks like you know he disappeared well he didn't disappear your scholarship is gone pull a quarter out of my ear type shit i didn't know how he did that. I was just, you know, I like shit like the card tricks and things like that.

Yeah, I do. I'd love to be a magician. Hold on one second. No, no, no, no, no, no. We got a little. Oh. Come on, J. Come on.

You know the magicians don't do cards with cameras and all this. Tickets away, bro. I might get kicked out of Vegas, bro. Let's see a little something. That's a fresh deck of cards, too. Fresh, it is, too. I know Nick Winkleman from a pop going to put y'all up.

Hey, Nick, let's get Nick in here. Man. Let me see. So y'all like magic at all, though? Hell yeah. Love magic. Who doesn't like magic, right? I actually bought those videos when I was younger.

They would, like, give away the secrets. Oh, yeah. Did you ever do the trick, though? I had a good one, bro. Really? I had a good one. I'm not going to give it away, but I had one where I could make the ash go from, I could, like, put cigarette ash. Do you know this trick?

Go ahead. The cigarette ash is on the top of your hand. And then you open up your hand and then there's ash on the bottom. You keep a rubber thumb on it. No, no, no. I almost want to do it. Mark used to do that one in college. That one will blow people's minds, bro.

Nick! What's up, baby? Nick is in the building. Nick's been giving us the inside information. Nick from Apopka. Respect. Yo, okay, so is he a legit magician or what? Yeah, he got some stuff. He got some stuff.

The one he got to show you is y'all pick the card. You pick the same card. You got to see that one. All right. All right, man. Let's see. Who wants to do it? You want me to do it?

I'll do it. I'll do it. Let's go. All right, pick a card. See, I'm in a bad spot here. You know what I mean? Nah, we're not going to do it. All right. No, no, no. Don't leave. Come on. Yeah, you look at it. Don't let me see it, I'll do it. Let's go. Pick a card. See, I'm in a bad spot here, you know what I mean? Nah, we're not gonna wait. All right, no, no, no, don't leave.

Yeah, you look at it, don't let me see it though. You can show the camera, all that. Okay, hold on, hold on. Okay, all right. Okay. Cam, see that? That's a good one. Put it right there on top.

There we go. You got it? Yep. All right. That was a good card. That was a good card? That was a good card, yeah. I picked a really hard to figure out card.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I hope That's a good card, yeah. I picked a really hard to figure out card. Yeah. That was good. Yeah. Well, I hope. All right, here we go. Yep. Was that it? No.

You sure? No, that wasn't it. I'll be honest, I might have forgot. I feel like you hit the line. No, no, I forgot. I got it. I'm going to put that one right there, and I'm going to put the next one on top. Okay.

When Alex runs away, that's when he got it, okay? Was that one it? No. You sure? I'm positive. But you didn't know about that one right there and I'm going to put the next one on top. When Alex runs away, that's when he got it. Was that one it? No. You sure? I'm positive. But you didn't know about that one? Yeah, well,

I did know it wasn't that one. It's not that one. I'm going to put that one right there and I'm going to put the next one on top. Okay, okay. Is that it?

No. You sure? No. I'm sure it's not that one. It's not going good right now. Is that it? Are we going to do this 52-touch?

You said he was a magician, bro. So none of them's yours. Tap two of them. Uh-oh. All right, tap one of them. All right. What was your card? Four of clubs. Oh, shit!

Oh, shit! Come on, bro. That's fire Right there baby I love it That is kind of cool Because what if you tap the other two That's what I'm saying bro

That's a good trick Alright what would you He hates it so much getting got I do not like that one he hates getting got I trick me I feel like right

that's how I felt on a fast break yeah fuck yeah how many of these do you have man

I wish we had another deck that's my favorite one you have two you can do it on two decks yeah do we have another deck I don't think so that's all we got

fuck there's no way come on Mark come on Mark wait give me there's gotta be one more let's do one more let's do one more Do we have another deck? I don't think so. That's all we got. Fuck. There's no way. Come on, Mark. Come on, Mark. Wait, give me, give me, there's got to be one more. Let's do one more. Let's do one more. I bet Vernon got a deck on him right now.

Ask, ask. Let me see here. He got a boy with a deck on him. We play a lot of spades, so he stayed with a deck. Oh, this guy's black. Come on, John. Yeah, Josh. I can't. Yeah, bro. Let's see.

Okay. All right, here we go. You've probably seen this one before. No. You'll probably figure it out, though. It's easy. One, two, three, and four. You pick a card, just tell me what row it's in. Four.

It's in this row. What row? Two. The same card, you sure? Yep. Tap two groups. No, don't do this to me again. These two.

All right. So you already know what the card is. No, you're telling me what to do. Group one, group two. Group one or group two? Two. Okay. One or two?

One. Sure. Tell them your card. Ace of hearts Come on Come on man Let's go You picked that one

Yo you did it How did you do that Andrew tell us how you did it How did you do it Tell us how you did it Y'all was in on this Y'all talked about this shit before. I should have put that shit up earlier.

Was there a math? I'm trying to understand. You must have known immediately what the card was. Maybe you're just easy to read, bro. Is that it? Yeah, maybe you're fucking easy to read. You picked it. I just flipped it.

Your grandkids are going to love you, dude. Can't wait. Can't wait. Can't wait. Wow, bro. Yeah. Come on, Strolls. Tell us how you did it. Come on, it was easy.

Nah, they told you. Yeah, that's the new Chris Webber right here. He really does. All right, go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't get that one.

Didn't he tell you he likes to be the dealer? You got to watch his ass. Yeah, it's true. Oh, did anybody ever try to get you to cheat? No, I would never do that. But did they try? No.

I would never do that. If I'm playing my kids like Uno or whatever, I might deal one from the bottom. For yourself? Yeah. But if we're playing for like a dollar, I ain't cheating. I ain't cheating. You can't let them win Uno. That's right. How they gonna respect you? That's what I do. That's right. I cheat Uno all the

time. Alright, that was an easy one. You'll probably get this one too. Now he's really rubbing it in your face. You see I said it was an easy one? Don't let him come between us. Every fourth card's gonna be an ace. You got it? One, two, Don't let him come between us. All right, every fourth card is going to be an ace. You got it?

One, two, three, ace. Got it? Yep. Ace. Yep. Bomb. Yep. Hey, you heard him making fun of the way I said tiger?

Yeah. Tag. I didn't know that. Tag. Fuck. All right. One, two, three. I didn't know what the fuck. All right. One, two, three. Every fourth card is what?

Ace. Go ahead, flip it up. You know what that row is going to be, okay? Yep. Knowing these are aces, pick one of these rows. Okay. Pick one of those rows. Okay. Pick one of those rows. Okay.

And now I want you to switch that ace with that ace, switch places, and then tap these three aces, and they all moved over there with that one. Okay. Damn. I really thought it was going to be like a couple little tricks. I didn't realize he was good

I got confused by that one because I didn't believe him when he said the aces were what they were so I'm a little confused by this one but then they were there what the fuck

come on bro off the elbow good off the elbow he picks one row different in the whole game Brandon bringing it right now here we go.

All right, here we go. This is a good one. This is a good one. Come here, come here, come here. No, that'll be next. All right, throw it, throw it, throw it. All right. What's up, man?

You can have a seat right there if you want. I'm going to make four stacks. Okay. There's got to be at least, let's say, eight cards per stack. Okay. You tell me when to stop. I got to make four. Yes.

Yep. Stop. Stop. One, two, or three. What does that mean? Where you want me to put this, Corey? That one's fine. Two? Yep. One or three? Three.

Last one gotta go to one, okay? One, two, or three. Why. Last one gotta go to one, okay? One, two, three. Why are you smiling, bro? Three. One or two? Two. Two? Last one gotta go to one, okay?

Yeah. One, two, or three? Three. One or two? Two. Last one gotta go to one, okay? You got him shook, I never seen him. One, two, or three? Three. One or two? Two. Last one, gotta go to one. Yeah. You got him shook. I never seen him. One, two, or three? Three.

One or two? One. Last one, gotta go to three. Yeah. MGM, y'all looking for a dealer? What's the chance of all them cars being the top on the same? I mean, the same on top. Matter of fact, might be all aces. There's no way that one's an ace. way there's no way ain't no way is it come on if this one's not an ace this is crazy how much you're gonna give it 40 mil

i ain't got it damn god damn i don't even understand it i don't even understand it i don't even understand it like i want to figure it it. I don't even understand it. Like, I want to figure it out. It's magic. All right, what is this? What are we doing here? What do we have here? So, like, can you even go to Vegas and play? Because isn't it like cheating if you know all this type of shit?

Well, I'm thinking, like, they don't let him touch the cards. You're not supposed to touch the cards. I can just see where every single card is, apparently. I had to get my hands on it first. Okay, okay. Hold on. Are you going to do the two-deck? Not like no rain, man every single card is, apparently. I had to get my hands on it first. Ah, okay, okay. Hold on. Are you going to do the two deck? Not like no rain, man.

Wait, wait, wait, wait. I have to pee, but I want to be here for the two deck. Yeah. All right. But don't do some shit for them. Do you know how to count cards? No, sir.

I can't even remember to play out of the huddle, bro. How am I going to count cards? I don't even know if he knows or remembers. I got a memory like a fucking elephant. Jacob, Jay bought a Phantom. I don't know what if he knows or remembers. I got a memory like a fucking elephant. Jacob,

Jay bought a Phantom. I don't know what year. Do you though? I think. Blue, 42, 33. That's what I want to remember.

Jay bought a Phantom. He only had a car for a little while. Wait, who? You bought a Phantom? Well, Memphis,

right? No, in Orlando. Well, I was in Memphis when I was playing, but I always had a house in Orlando. Yeah. I bought a house in Orlando since 2002.

So I always brought my wife and kids and dogs, whatever city I was in. Yeah. But we always go back to Orlando in the summer. Okay. All right. So I'm borrowing my mom's car one time trying to get up to the gym. I'd never seen a Rolls Royce in person. I was blown away. I got my little flip phone out, and I'm like, at the oh shit it's a roll of ice i didn't know he had just got a rolls royce we get to the gym and

about to start playing he's like were you taking a picture me at the light a phantom i'm like imagine your homeboy taking a picture just seem weird i'm like, imagine your homeboy taking a picture. It just seemed weird. I'm like. And sneaking it too. Was that me? That shit was awkward. I was just telling him that.

Like, yeah, I look like a real asshole. I never see that car. Shit. I would tell him too. He had, I don't know if you remember, he's on your seven series at the Dub Bellagio's. I'm talking to the outside. I'm like, what's good, bro?

He went to the gym. I just waited just so I could go out and spin them bitches. I was like, fuck. Like the prices, right? I've been telling you. You thought it was the prices, right, bro? I spun them bitches like 30 times. And they were hating me.

They all spent for like 20 minutes. I was out there just like, yeah. I don't know. They're going different ways. They're going different ways. I love that shit. like 20 minutes i was out there just like yeah i'd like to see the video footage of that again we never seen no shit like that it's like one of us so i thought it was a crazy shit wait so when do y'all meet y'all meet before you're even at SAC? Yeah. Oh, wow.

But you were a kid. Yeah, I was 16, something like that. Oh, wow. And you were hooping a little bit? No, not even. I was like 13. Yeah. I was sneaking into the gym just trying to get on with the guys.

That's when we were playing pickup in the lockout season with all the Magic guys. And these little jits was sneaking in the gym like on the back door. And we throwing it between people's legs and shit. But could you play back? Yeah, it was hard. Yeah, like in between games they're trying to play

us one-on-one type shit. You know what I mean? It's like I used to do. Did you ever cross them up? Of course we tried. Did he ever get you? I'm sure. Everybody's got got, right?

No, I had a couple buddies. A couple of us could play. We was doing all that shit. We was doing everything we could Just to at least be with the guys And then for us To never see no shit like that Just running into all these guys

Was like No shocking Not these guys Yeah no no For us it was Bro Penny's so slept on Yeah

Unbelievable I mean Were you Actually played in Miami With me for a year This is Yeah Yeah For sure he was great But early Wait were you Were you? Actually, he played in Miami with me for a year. This is. Yeah, after all the bullshit. Yeah.

For sure, he was great. But early. Wait, were you playing against Penny when you were at Orlando early? Yeah, yeah. What was that like? Because that's early. Penny, that's. It's funny you ask.

We're playing. And he knows what time it is. Penny does. I got next. They won. He's like, hey, I ain't real loose yet. So take it easy. No. Shit. I'm going. They won. He's like, hey, I ain't real loose yet, so take it easy. No.

Shit. I done put it in seventh gear. Yeah, so I kind of lost a little bit of respect for him. No way. Yeah. But he could play. Fuck. But he was too slow for this.

Wait, really? Yeah. That's probably the injury started to. I think this is even before the injury. It didn't matter what it was. Too slow.

Really? Yeah. So only Speedy Claxton. Oh, he didn't have a chance either defensively. Really? But I didn't have a chance on him defensively either.

Fair. Yeah. Fair. Speedy Claxton was fast as hell. Yeah. Like cum on a gold tooth, bro. Like, what?

Wait, what? Yeah. You know how fast that shit slide down that as hell. Yeah. Like cum on a gold tooth, bro. Like, what? Wait, what? Yeah. You know how fast that shit will slide down that gold tooth? Ski! That's disgusting. That shit is disgusting. Because it takes a little bit with enamel. Yeah.

But it takes gold. There you go. It's so fast. It's a frictionless with enamel. Yeah. But if it's gold, it's so fast. It's a frictionless surface. Bro, I need to know how you found that out. Come on.

I'm from Bale. I can't stop. Oh, man. I've heard that. Like, come on, a gold tooth. Oh, my God, dude. Bro.

Oh, that's funny. There's nothing faster. Oh, that's funny. There's nothing faster. Oh, that's funny. There's nothing faster. Speedy, maybe. Yeah. Speedy. Wait, so he was telling us about the technical in China?

Technical in China? Oh, yeah. So we're over there, and we're playing against the, I don't want to say the national team, but it's something like that. The dude that's their coach is the national team coach, or he might be the leader of their army or some shit. I don't even know. I don don't even know but he's somebody he was somebody he's somebody everybody in the gym it's early in the game it's early in the game.

It's early in the game. There's a lot of people there. They paid me some money to come over there and play and whatnot. Fans paid their money to play, watch me play. Refs was cheating. Imagine that. Imagine that. And they're Chinese refs.

They can't speak English. So I'm yelling at them, trying to curse them. They don't mean, and they're Chinese refs. They can't speak English. So I'm yelling at them, trying to curse them. And they don't understand me because they're just, hey. And that's making me even more mad because I'm like, I'd rather them curse me back. Like, you know what I mean? But they're just smiling. Yeah, yeah.

And I'm just steady. Man. Cool. So I'm like, we call it time. I don't know what I told her. I said, look, you just go down there. I told my team, you just stand there and stand right there. Set this screen.

And I'm going to run as fast as I can and run my defender right off your screen. Right? I said, they're probably going to call an offensive foul. Don't even worry about it because you know what time it is. They're cheating, right? Yeah. Boom, we did it. Sure enough, offensive foul.

And I told him, I said, listen, don't do anything crazy after he calls the offensive foul, right? And sure enough, he said, okay, no problem. So as soon as they call offensive foul, my dumb ass boots this ball. I mean, I kick the ball. I try to kick it up as far as I can to the 15th level, right? Something happens. I didn't kick it very good, but I got a good kick into it. Something happens.

It's all kinds of commotion. They call it technical. Boom, done. Commotion. Next thing you know, all kinds of commotion. They call it technical. Boom. Commotion. Next thing you know, boom. The ball is right back in my hand. What do I do? Kick it again.

I got to kick the bitch further than that. So the next thing you know, now I'm kicked out of the game in the first quarter. This is a charity game? Yeah. Over in China. Everyone came to see him play. Yeah. Now I'm sitting on this. Who's playing now?

It was like some, well, some other celebrities and some like G League guys. Some other generals? I think Vince Carter was our coach. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. He's out there hanging on the rim during the game.

Didn't get no technical call on him. Unbelievable. Yes, that makes me more mad at the ref. Yeah. Because they're sucking his dick, you know what I mean? But anyway, now I'm sitting over there. It's like, it's got to be, I don't know if we played two quarters or, I mean,

four quarters or two halves, but it's a lot of time left, and I'm sitting over there, and I see somebody in a crowd with a Marshall shirt on. Oh, that's old school. Yeah. So I'm like, well, and he's got two or three kids, and I got to sit here the rest of the time, and I'm like, well, fuck. Y'all come three kids, and I got to sit here the rest of the time. And I'm like, well, fuck.

Y'all come on over here. You're from West Virginia. And then China has the choices, I mean chances, to sit down on the bench with me. So I'm like, hey, I'll just start suiting the shit with him. Next thing you know, the boss of China, whoever that is. The boss of China. Whoever that is. Yes, bro.

That dude, whoever he was. Everyone. Go down there. Go down there and talk to the refs. Talk to the refs. Da-da-da. We want Jason back in, blah, blah. Well, the refs go talk to the coach. He's the boss down there, remember?

They're like, no, he can't play. They're trying to win. They're trying to beat us, right? They can't play. But I think they end up letting me play and come back in the second half. But, yeah, I was fearful that they were going to take my passport my passport that trip Yeah, you could get up. Yeah, bro. Last place you want to be locked up in China. I think White boy in China prison probably wouldn't go to well. What do you think would happen? I'm not so sure man, but I'm not I'm not I'm not fill you up with duck sauce

I'm not. Fill you up with duck sauce? Well, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not fit for prison anyway. I'll tell you right now. You can't be good in China. Can't be good. I mean, they might do that, too. They don't give a fuck. No. They don't care.

Especially now. How long ago was this? This was probably about six, seven years. Oh, shit. Okay, this is recent. Yeah. Yeah, shit. China's different. What made you kick it, shit. Okay, this is recent. Yeah. It's shit. China's different.

What made you kick it, though? I don't know. You usually don't act out like that. I just made love to what was going to make me feel good. Kicking it. It just handed right back to me. I'm like, they think I was bullshitting? Boom.

What did the crowd do? Oh, they loved it. Right when I saw it land back in his hands i'm like oh shit i was like the worst thing that could happen is it lands back in his hand it was like dink yeah and he looks up and i'm just like oh shit yeah yes sir i mean any punter in in the NFL would have been proud. Great. What's the weirdest place y'all have been? Overseas. India. Wait, why, why, why, why?

India, India. I'm not going to speak on it, brother. India's a different spot. Did you have that? You need that. Both of them dropping their head at the exact same time. Wait, why, why, why, why, why? Who did you see taking a shit and where?

What didn't we see? Look, I don't want to disrespect nobody. I got to sit down now. India's different. India's different. We've been to China 10 times. India is different. I've been to 30 countries.

I've been to 30 countries. I've been everywhere in the world. India's different. But why, why? It is everything about it. Just from the stray cows running down the freeway or like traffic. You think traffic's bad here. We might have to go, I don't know, let's say four blocks.

Yeah. And I swear to God it took us two and a half hours. But come to find out, it wasn't the car to track It was a guy up there You know a horse and carriage what no horse just a carriage and a human Barefooted in the freeway walking. No. Yeah, downtown Mumbai. Yeah They had a pedicure since pedicures I got the zoom in just in case.

But, man, God bless India, though, bro. It's like, why were you all there? We were there for the Kings and the Pacers were playing a preseason game. Yeah. And we actually, the Kings had an ambassador from each team. I was Kings and Dettla. Kings are owned by an Indian now. Yes, they are. Yeah.

Dettla Shrimp was the Pacers' ambassador. I got to meet Larry Bird there. That was great. How's Larry? Larry's great. I met Detlef Shrimp. That was the first time I really got to talk to Detlef Shrimp. And I was like, look, Detlef, I know this is the first time I met you, but look, that's Larry Bird down there.

You played with him. Please introduce me. If you don't know me, I'm going to whoop your big ass if I don't. So they're like, oh, right now, let's go. I'm like, oh, I didn't want to go right now. I'm not ready for this. So here we go. But Larry Bird's face

is this long. I mean, I don't know. Like, so he introduced me to Larry Bird and he stood up and I'm like,

whoa. I couldn't think of really anything to say and I said, so Larry, does Moonboy remind you of French Lick a lot?

French Lick, Indiana is where he grew up. He said, yeah, it does. And when he said, yeah, it does, I just kind of lost interest because I know you're lying through your teeth, Larry. There ain't nothing in this world that reminds you of Moomba. Nothing. It's one of a kind.

It's nothing like it. It's just different and can't wait to come back. Can't wait. We did do a cool thing where they had a floating basketball court. I don't know if you saw. Luka Doncic is having some kind of Air Jordan thing on a floating court. Like on the water?

Yeah. Yeah. But it was cool. But the water, you didn't want to fall in that water. No, no, no. You don't want to drink the water. No, no, no. You don't want to fall in that water No, no, no You don't want to drink the water No, no, no, you don't want to really eat Okay, that's what it was They were so relaxed with the way they handled food

And touched food It was just too much You don't want to eat at all What y'all mean? What y'all mean you don't want to eat at all. What y'all mean? Wait, wait. What y'all mean you don't want to eat? What y'all mean? Right, you'll get sick. If it's not hot, you're getting sick.

But what would you see? Like the way that they would prepare the food? You were watching? No, thank God we didn't see the preparation. Wait, what? I'm thinking like if I ever get a chance to go back to India, I've got to have a microwave with us at all times. Like I have to bring a microwave and some, like, cups of noodles and shit like that.

I mean, I've been a little bit around the world, and I've been able to find something like a McDonald's. Usually, the McDonald's is somewhat, at least the fries. I don't know about India. McDonald's, you're straight. Really? Some way, you're not. Some way, you're not. McDonald's is hot. But they don't know about India. McDonald's, you're straight. Really? Some way you're not. Some way you're not. McDonald's is hot.

But they don't have beef. Oh, they don't have beef. Yeah. What are you going to have? Chicken Maharaja Mac. Fire. What the fuck is that? It's a chicken Big Mac.

It's chicken patties. It's good. What else was that? Oh, yeah. The McDonald's menus over there is different, too. You know, you try the McDonald's menus. I have, like, two hot dogs laying across the Big Mac. And the hamburger,

you know what I mean? But India, I bet it's crazy too. They didn't, you know. Yeah. We didn't go to McDonald's in India. We did on that last day.

We did? Yeah. Neither one of us got shit. We found that fried rice spot. We found some fried rice spot like day three of day seven. Yeah. And there was a little hair

in his food. A little. You had a whole Indian in there, bro. It was your shit. Your shit. And again, the casualness of it, bro, was like, you want me to take it out? He just pulled the treadlock out of your foot. He wanted me to take it out.

That's when I was like, what you mean? He was like, well, what do you want me to do with it? Yeah. Give me a new one. That's how I knew. So what's going on behind the scenes? Nah, man, I'm off that shit. So he didn't eat the rest of it.

So you didn't eat? No. And I have a diet. Like, I'm on a diet all the time. Nah, not Indian. What's your diet? Yeah, yeah, just standard shit. You know, egg whites and liver.

No hair. Oatmeal. As long as it's not that. Strictly no hair is allowed. You're not getting none of that in India. No, it was... What else? Just when you remind me of it,

it gives me the hairs in the back of my neck go up. Really? No, the best part is... And I'm a good sport. You know I'm a good sport. I eat all kind of shit in all kind of countries.

I've had snake and dog and rabbit. I've eaten it all. You've had dog? Yeah, in China. So, you know... Look, he's from Apopka, Florida. But look, we flew from obviously India. That's a long flight.

Yeah, it's a long flight. So we're trying to get out of there early. We're going to get a new flight to get up out of there. I can't have my man fly in the back trying to get in business. There ain't no business class on the early flight. He's like, fuck it. I don't care. I'll ride in the back.

Let's go. No, no, at all costs. I said, I don't care. It's a 16-hour flight. Tell them how that water went. We flew over Emirates business. You know how those flights are. I said, y'all can keep all costs. I said, I don't care. It's a 16-hour flight. Tell me how that water went. We flew over Emirates, business. You know how those flights are. I said, y'all can keep all that.

Just put me on the next flight home. Mind you, I'm a good sport. I swear I'm a good sport. Put me on the next flight home. I don't care where I'm sitting. I sat right in the middle, in the very back. I had never seen no shit like this in my life. We got to the back of the plane.

Bruh. They had a beat. The guy with the rickshaw. He was pulling the plane. Bro. They had a big... The guy with the rickshaw? He was pulling the plane. He was pulling the plane, bro. They had a big-ass bottle of water back there and everybody was just... No! No!

Yeah, man. You're a liar. There's no way. No! I sat right there. I didn't move. I didn't touch nothing. I sat right here for 16 hours like this.

No! Yes! Y'all gotta do better, bro. Y'all gotta do better, bro. This man doesn't even like sharing food. He doesn't even like people sharing food. That must have been bad. That must have been rough.

That's so funny. I'm off it. And we flew Emirates business on the way. I had my own refrigerator on my seat. On the way back, I'm like, that's straight. Just get me home. It was different. Okay, what other countries? What airline did you fly on the way back?

You flew Air India? Because I don't even do that. It was Ragly's, but whatever it was. Ragly. Raggedy. Raggedy is what I was. Wait, what? Ragly. Ragly. Raggedy. Raggedy's what I was. Not raggedy, ragly. Ragly.

Ragly. Yeah, I got it. It's up to you. I'm teaching him a few things. Yeah, I'm learning. Tagger. Tagger. Did y'all see the way he was looking at me when I said tagger earlier?

These shits went. I was just trying to figure out what the fuck. I was like, who is this amazing athlete that I've never heard of? Who is tag he gets stopped everywhere i thought it was a horse i thought it was like a sea biscuit yeah it was like sea biscuit or tagger or something like how do i not know this amazing horse tagger but now i get it yeah bro we went to indonesia that was interesting how was that oh then we got our visa as soon as we landed on the runway.

We got off the plane and got our visa there. Okay. Yeah, you did that. Okay. I think it was like $2.78 for a visa. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Indonesia.

We played in an arena. It was like closed in, kind of like SoFi. You been to SoFi? Yeah. But it's not really closed in. Yeah. I mean, it was so hot. Like during timeouts, I'm trying to sit in the cooler,

in the water cooler, so I couldn't do it. Dirt, damn near dirt floor, wasn't it? It was, damn near. Whatever you want to call that. Indonesia is different, too. Were the refs cheating over there, too? No, they were happy to see us Americans. Vin Baker, that was a long time ago.

Remember Vin Baker was still playing? Who was the old head that went with us? Played for Milwaukee a long time ago, man. These were charity games or these were just like preseason games? Like a Chinese group, Cats With Money. Yeah. We'll put on like an exhibition game. Bring like some ex-retired NBA guys,

and we'll fill out the roster with like our homies or G League guys that are trying to get on maybe in the Chinese leagues or something like that. You know what I mean? What's the biggest bag you ever got from one of those? Oh, man, I get 100 grand, 150 grand maybe. Just for exhibition. It depends on how many games I played. Obviously, if you play games, you get paid more. Well, that's the way I work at.

But I think my man AI, he hits them in the head when he goes over there. Oh, I can imagine. For sure. Just for him to show up, he's going to get some bread. Yeah. But like in China, man, it's crazy to me how many fans there are in China basketball. Yeah. I think it's the difference in here in China is like 13-year-olds to like, let's say, 35-year-olds love the NBA here, right?

Well, they're 10-year-olds to fucking 90-year-olds. They all love that game. Fucking love it. Wow. Love it, bro. That's really cool. Yeah. And what's their team?

Houston, right? I'm sure it'd be Houston because Yao Ming and, you know, they play. And Trace McGregor is huge over there, too. Yeah. He shuts shit down. Wait, really? Yeah. Like, shuts shit down.

Did he spend a lot of time playing exhibition games there? I just think because he was so good. Yeah. And I think he went over there at the end of his career and played a year or two over there in the Chinese basketball game. What's that like? Have you spoken to guys who, like, went and played there for the year? Yeah. And what do they say?

It's different. You know, like, you can only have two Americans on your team. Most of those European teams, you can only have two Americans. So that's why it's so important for an American guy to get a dual citizenship. Oh, so he doesn't count as an American. Right. That's interesting. And they only got X amount of money to pay the

other players. Correct. And would that have been anything you would have considered late in career? No. You don't want to be far from your family. I don't want to do that, but China for me is like a seven-day top. That's as long as I can stay. Yeah. What happens after that?

In your body? I start to die. Well. I mean, that's what it is. He's like, I can't eat shit. So when he said, I don't like other people touching my food, and then he said he didn't's like, I can't eat shit. So when he said how I'm like other people touching my food, and then he said he didn't like India, I was like, yeah, no. Yeah, I get it. I get it.

Of course you don't. I'm so glad, though, I got to go to India, though. Yeah. I'm so thankful that I got to do all this types of shit that I've gotten to do. Yeah. And I hope there's more to come, I swear. What about how is dog? I don't really know.

I mean, I was eating all kinds of shit and afterwards they told me, by the way, you ate such and such and such. Really? Like I said, I'm a good sport. If they put some shit out there,

I'll try it. I know he ain't gonna try shit. Thank you. That's crazy. They paid him to try it and he ain't gonna try shit and I'm adventurous. I'm like,

well, fuck it, I'll eat it. That's great. He ate dog but wasn't eating India. In the country. That feels disrespectful. That's crazy.

In the country. He didn't know it was dog. Let's give it to him. He didn't know. He didn't know. In the country. That feels disrespectful. That's crazy. That feels disrespectful. He didn't know it was dog. Let's give it to him. He didn't know. He didn't know. But you knew. He wouldn't have ate that shit if he knew from the get-go,

I bet. I wouldn't have let him not have done that. All the other stuff I'm not afraid of. I might have tried it all. Do you know what breed? I'm not afraid of rats.

Horse. I tried it all. Yeah, horse ain't bad. But what about the breed of dog? Do you know the breed? No. Cocker Spaniel? You can see him hanging down on

the side of the street no yeah in the philippines though yeah like you know how you like at the hot dog stands yeah yeah literally hot dog yeah yeah blood whoa listen man it's different it's a long way from bell basketball global game you know this is a global game. What's the edible story you mentioned? Can I? Yeah. Talent. Talent. Just a good one.

Allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly because you know you can't have edibles in China. No, of course not. We always fly out of LAX. Jay picked up some edibles on the way. He was still kind of new in the edibles game. We get out to China.

Like, I don't know, first day or something. We get into this event. I think Tracy McGrady was with us. A couple NBA guys. Chauncey Billups saved the day. Yeah, saved the day. Why? Like, they would have revoked my passport and everything if it wasn't for Chauncey. Well, he, uh...

They were doing, like, little interviews or something. And we're in a big group. It wasn't, like, one of our normal groups because in China, like,uncey? Well, he, they were doing like little interviews or something, and we're in a big group. It wasn't like one of our normal groups because in China, like a small group would be like 100,000 people. You know, it's like 100,000 people right there. We're in a small little group, and they're like doing little short interviews, and they bring Jay up. But what happened was before we got out

the van, it was his first time doing the edibles, he's like, hey, can you read up? Because we got the internet. He's like hey can you read up because we got the internet he's like read up how much how many milligrams i should take so i'm like reading it was like little little little things i'm like okay so if it's your first time you should probably take like eight to ten milligrams i looked over he took the whole thing no but the whole thing was four pieces of whole things i think he ended up with 200 milligrams of something. Oh, my God.

On his first rip. Oh, shit. On his first rip. I'm in China. I'm in China. I'm way over there, bro. I'm way over there. No matter where you're at, you were in China.

I have you take four edibles, bro. And that's his first rip. So he doesn't know any better. You just look like you're making fun of him. Yeah. That's right. Right where I needed to be. Okay, go.

We're inside, and I can see he's starting to slow down a bit. I'm keeping an eye on him. It's my dog, you know what I'm saying? I'll make sure he don't want to make a bad name for himself. They ask him up to start doing an interview or something, and I can start to see, like, oh, he's looking different. And I'm keeping an eye on him, like, oh, shit. He gets to one point, he's dribbling the ball,

and he's talking to the guy. He didn't know the ball stopped. It wasn't with him no more. He didn't know. Hey, hey. Three more dribbles And he still gave me the interview And he was on point with it

Yeah, you know what I'm saying And I'm like Hey, bro Yo, where's this interview, yo? We need to find this interview We do, we need it I think Chauncey stepped in And like

Started doing his thing And I took Jay Like, hey, let's Get on out hey, let's take a quick little break. Go get you some water. And I got him to the van. And we sat inside this van. And it looked like all the water molecules in his body had been sucked out. He looked like an old catcher's mitt.

So he dried. And he was like, hey. And things weren't no joke. And I remember yesterday it was called TKO Punch. Shout out was like, hey. Them things weren't no joke. And I remember yesterday it was called TKO Punch. Shout out to TKO Punch. Them things. I don't even think they make them no more, dude. We have since discovered which

one it was, and they don't even make them no more. And we found out the guy in the shop was like, oh, I remember those. He said one word. Dangerous. And you had two of the bars? Four X what you're supposed to have. It's only like a little square.

It's only like a little square. Like a 50 cent piece. You're supposed to have like eight to 10 milligrams. He had 200. He had like 20 times more than you're supposed to. So what happened? So we're in the van. I'll tell you what, I slept great.

For how many months? We're in the van, but I was the we're in the van but I was the only one in the van he was looking so far past me like the look in his eyes

I've never seen it before I've never seen it since I'm like bro you good and I got a pretty good tolerance but I would imagine

those things do you remember anything like from that event like from taking him to waking up no I don't remember no I gotta tell him that story

that's how it went down. So when do you recover? When do you come back on? Probably sometime that evening, I'm saying. Really? Yeah. That fast? Me, dude.

If I take too much, I'm gone. Wow. I mean, still high as shit that evening. You know, like, I was high as giraffe pussy. I'm telling you right now. Which is a dish in China. Bro, the Edibles, fuck, I remember I was out for three days once on Edibles, man.

Those things aren't no joke. They're not a fucking game. Dribbling without a ball. Dribbling without a ball is crazy. He's still talking. Yeah. And the reporters are so polite, they're not going to say anything. They're always like that.

It was bad. It was bad, but I was right where I needed to be. If everybody could get to where I was, life would be better for everyone. Seriously. Seriously. I don't know how long it would be better for everyone. Seriously. Seriously.

I don't know how long it would be better for them, but it was gonna be better for them. For that moment, it would have been way better. Yes. Bro. Oh my goodness. I wanna see this two deck. We got two decks of cards.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, go. All right, look, which deck you want? I want that one. You shuffle it. Shuffle it till you're ready. You tell me when you're done. Yes, sir. You done?

Let me give it a couple more. Fuck you up a little bit right here. There we go. Done. Perfectly. Put it right there. All right. Do like this follow

follow my lead with that deck yep pick your favorite card like you're doing it and let's lay it down on don't let me see it though oh and lay it down on uh on the table yep i'll lay mine okay put the deck down right there. Put it on top. All right, cut it. Put that on top. All right, this time cut it like real deep. Boom. You want to cut them some more?

No, it's fine. Okay, take this deck. Pick your same favorite card. Okay. Put it on top of the deck. Okay. I'm going to pick my same favorite card. Okay. Put it on top of the deck. Okay. I'm going to pick my same favorite card. If we got the same favorite card,

I don't think I can show you the rest of the trick. That's the only crazy part about this trick. So, you know, what was your favorite card? Oh, no, man. Fuck. Holy fucking shit. That's no fire, dude. Holy shit. Time shitty beyond.

I don't get how that's possible. That's not possible. That's not possible. I don't get how that's possible. I don't get how that's possible. I think you're easy to read, dude. I think that's what you're not understanding. I...

What the fuck? Come on, bro. I chose it. I cut it. And then I recut it. You did the whole trick. So you have to know the card. He did them all.

He did all of them. All of them. But the other ones I think are... There's math involved. This... Yeah, did all of them. All of them. But the other ones I think there's math involved. This. Yeah, I don't know. This is magic. MDM. I don't get that one.

I did all the cutting for that. And I cut it however I wanted to cut it. So even if I did put it on the bottom so it goes wherever, how do you know my card before I... He's in your hand. I think he had it in his hand the whole time.

Somehow he just got it. At the end, just got it on top. But I chose it. Can you do it again to him? You're fucking right. Which deck you want? Take this. Shuffle it up.

You know what I mean? Yeah, Come on. Hand it over to the, you know, full of color on the side. You say when you're done. Why are you so angry, dude? I'm just trying to figure this out. He just hates it. It's just steaming.

All right. All right. You ready to rock? Yeah. Put that deck down. Don't hold me, child. Get it on nice. Fuck it. All right. All right, you ready to rock? Yeah. Put that deck down. Don't hold me, child. Get it on nice. Yeah, fuck it.

All right, go. All right, pick it up. Pick your favorite card out of that junk. You got to look at me before you pick it, though. All right. All right, I got you now. I ain't going to look at it. I'm going to put mine on top like that right there.

All right. Put it on top. Yes, sir. All right, cut them junks. All right, cut this one real deep. Want to cut them some more? Yeah. How do you want to cut it?

Like right in the middle? No, right on the top. Oh, just one card? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bomb. Oh, shit. Oh, you're trying to trick me. No, pick your same favorite card.

All right. Hmm. You didn't put it back in there? All right. We'll just cut the bullshit. Oh shit. Let's go. Straight to it. Let's go.

That's fine. Let's go. Nah, this is crazy. He didn't even let you Straight to it Let's go That's fine Let's go Nah, this is crazy He didn't even let you get to it I don't like that He didn't even let you get to it I don't like that Hey man, Jason

Thank you so much for coming, man Man, thanks for having me, bro Appreciate it Look, if I can help y'all out Y'all don't need my help But anytime you need me, bro I'm your guy The same, bro

Yeah, bro The same Anything you're working on Please let us know, dude This has been great And please always continue To bring Nick around For sure you're working on, please let us know, dude. This has been great. And please always continue to bring Nick around. For sure.

We're going to work on a new magic trick, man. Yeah, we got to talk to the wizard. The wizard. I don't know, man. Yeah, I think there was some Chinese interference

right there. Maybe. A hundred percent. It was probably a Hindu god he talking all that shit about Indians. Might be, yeah, yeah. Bitch knew came down

and got me right. Absolutely. All right, man. Thank you so much. Thanks, bro. Appreciate you. Jason Williams, everybody.