Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh - MrBallen: “They thought it was their dead mother… but it was worse”

Episode Date: September 9, 2026

YERRR the GOAT storyteller is with us on the couch today and he's got some crazy stories: - A terrifying TRUE story of a haunted hosue - The strange death of David Lewis - The Dyatlov Pass Incident - The Screeching Lady - 9/11 and it's impact - Diving in the Sterkfontain Caves Gone Wrong - Chris Lemons cheating death and much, much more - ENJOY! Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 0:40 Insane True Story of a Haunted House & Ouija board 27:48 Sociopath v Psychopath + Danny LaPlante 30:11 Dyatlov Pass Incident + Russian alien jealousy 45:28 Strange Death of David Lewis 53:49 Fugue State + Dumped there? 59:00 Football is BACK 1:02:31 Case of Missing Skier + Hitting the fugue 1:11:14 Mark believes in demons + The Screeching Lady 1:20:35 Superstition + Indiana “showtime” 1:28:09 9/11 impact,People jumping + Freedom Eating 1:35:28 Ellie Lobel Stumbling on Surprising Cure + Lab leak 1:45:26 Sterkfontain Caves Diving 1:53:56 Surviving 60 hours underwater 1:56:35 Catacombs of Paris 1:57:32 Chris Lemons Cheating Death 2:01:04 John’s Supernatural experience 2:14:52 Extreme sleepwalking 2:22:51 Releasing graphic novel “Terror Within” 2:24:10 Where “MrBallen” came from? #mrballen #dyatlovpass #demons This episode is sponsored by Kalshi. This episode is sponsored by Sesh. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, everybody? Today, we are joined by maybe the best storyteller on the internet. And he's come with some of the most insane, dark, strange, twisted stories that I've ever heard, some of which he's never told before. And trust me, these absolutely blew my mind. He even tells us about his firsthand experience with the supernatural. But first, a family starts noticing strange tapping happening inside their home. At first, they think, think that the house might be haunted. Then they discover what's actually happening and somehow the truth is even more terrifying. This story is 100% real and you're not going to believe how it ends. Everybody enjoy and welcome to the couch, Mr. Baldwin. I got a demon-esque story.

You may have heard this one. This is a classic one. So in the 19, I think it was 1984, there was this family, Frank, Karen, and Tina who lived in some part of Massachusetts. I forget I forget the name, but it's like Western Massachusetts. And in 1984 or whatever was, 86, the mom died sort of abruptly. And it was not only this huge tragedy for the family, but from sort of an economic perspective, it immediately put the family in duress because they needed her money. She was making money. And with her deceased, suddenly the dad, Frank, who was a blue-collar guy, you know,

he wanted to be home with his 14-year-old and 9-year-old Tina and Karen, respectively, to help them grieve, but it was like, I also now need to work more just to pay the bills. Pepperel, pepperl mass. And so, you know, this is like in December of 1984, if I get in the year wrong. But on one of the first nights that he had his late night shift, his first late night shift, the girls were left alone. You know, they really haven't been able to process the grief yet. This is a very new wound.

And the girls had been really, really close with their mom, like more so than the average girls to their mom. This was like a devastating, devastating blow. And the girls, they're not even really at the stage where they're ready to accept that their mom's dead. They still think like she's going to come back. And so their dad's out for the night. They know he's not coming home until like midnight or something. And they're like, hey, like, why don't we get out the Ouija board and try to contact mom, you know, if she's still here. And so they get out the Ouija board, the girls go down into the basement and they like set up the seance. You know, they put candles out. It's like cliche, you know, their Ouija board in the middle of the room. And the basement is like nondescript.

It's a classic New England basement where there's like nothing down there but like a washer dryer. But they start the seance and they have their Ouija board out. They never used it before. And the girls, they're asking these questions. You know, mom, if you're here, like, give us a sign. And they got their hands on the planchette and they're like waiting for it to move. But nothing happens. And like over the course of an hour, it's like they just keep asking more and more questions. and they're trying so hard to like will their mom to come into existence. But she doesn't. It's a failed seance.

You know, eventually the girls sort of pack it in and they're like, you know, I bet she's still here, but, you know, it is what it is. She didn't come through the Ouija board. So they pack out the Ouija board. They go back upstairs. They go to the second floor where the bedrooms are. Their dad's still out at work. And the girls go into their respective bedrooms, sort of a disappointing end to the night.

And they're like, all right, you know, go to bed. And they're laying in bed and the two girls independently start hearing tapping noises, coming from somewhere in the house. And at first, neither of the girls thought to contact the other girl. It sounded like the noise was maybe coming from downstairs. They didn't think it was the other. But they were sporadic noises. It was not something consistent, like a fan or something that could be written off.

It was something random happening downstairs. And the girls at first just laid there and listened and kept them away because it was loud enough. But then at some point, the little girl, the nine-year-old, she got scared. of this tapping noise and so she left her room walked down the hallway came into Tina's room and climbed in bed with Tina and she's like what's that noise like it's scaring me like what is that and Karen and Karen's like I don't know or Tina the oldest is like I don't know and then at some point one of them says well wait a minute what if it's mom what if our seance worked what if what if we've contacted mom and she's trying to contact us what if that's what it is and they like

desperately want this to be true so they get out of bed and they walk to the doorway leading into the hallway and there's some steps going down and the steps kind of turn and go down another flight to the first floor so they can't see the first floor. They can only see the first floor landing.

And they kind of like look down the stairs and they call out like, hey mom, is that you? And there's like silence in the house. And then they hear tap, tap, tap, tap, coming from somewhere downstairs. Like a distinctive reaction or it sounded to them like there's a reaction to what we've just asked.

And the girls that are like freaked out by it. Just got goosebumps. And they walk out of their door, they go to the top of the stairs. Now they're like looking down, they say it again, like, Mom, if that's really you, like give us a sign. Like, please, like, we want to talk to you again. And they're like, oh, there's something down there. And they're like, it's Mom. And they're pumped.

They're like, this is the best. This is like the greatest thing that's ever happened. Mom is here. And so not scared. They start going down the stairs and they start firing off questions like to Mom, thinking that she's down here tapping somewhere. This is definitely her. And they're asking questions. Some of the questions aren't even really like a yes-no answer.

They're much longer, but even still, it's like every question just about they would hear, like a rapid tap. Like three taps was often what they would hear. And the house is dark. Frank's not back yet. They follow the tapping noise to the first floor over to the door that leads down to the basement. And they realize that the tapping is coming from the basement, which in their mind only further establishes this has to be from the seance that we did down in the basements.

It's got to be mom. She's answering our questions. And so they opened the door and they're looking down this dark stairwell into this dingy basement. And even though they know it's mom, they're a little bit too scared to like fully commit and go down in the basement right now. But they stood there at the top of the stairs for several more minutes, asking more questions of their mom and getting their taps. You know, it felt very much like we're talking to mom. Eventually it stopped. And the girls are so jazzed up from this interaction that they can't sleep.

So they're like, let's just wait up and like tell dad the great news that, you know, mom's still in the house. And so a little bit later, Frank comes home and he's very surprised to see that the girls are still awake. He comes in and he's like, what's going on? And they're like, oh, my gosh, you wouldn't believe it. Like we did the sance and mom was here. She was talking to us. Like, oh, my God, it's so unbelievable. And Frank, you know, he knows they've just lost their mom.

Like we're talking probably within the last couple of weeks. And he knows he's not here for them. He's out doing what he's got to do. But he knows these kids are left alone and they're in this terrible position. And so he instinctively is like, I'm not about to sit here and try to dispel the idea that their mom is talking to them. Even though this feels borderline unhealthy, what they're doing here, because he doesn't believe this is real at all. He's like, that's great. Of course your mom is here.

Of course your mom is going to be with you forever. And yeah, I'm sure she's looking out for you right now. And the girls, they're like giddy. They're so happy. Like, dad's just said it's true too. Like, this is great. And so the girls, they go to sleep. And Frank, you know, he sort of didn't really think that much.

of it. Ultimately, he's like, if this is their coping mechanism, that's okay with me. Over the next couple of days, the girls, despite not doing any more seances, continued to hear tapping noises in the house, not just at night, but sort of throughout the day. And for the most part, they were coming from down in the basement. But they would only be heard when Frank wasn't around, where he wasn't near enough that he could hear it. Like, they would hear it, they'd run to get their dad. He was like out cutting the grass or something, and he'd be like, oh, okay, and you wouldn't hear it. He doesn't think it's real, so he's not expecting to hear anything. But this was a very prevalent thing. Like throughout the course of the next few days, there were taps almost

practically all day. Frank never heard him. And Frank, again, he's just rolling with it. It is what it is. The girls are grieving. But at some point, you know, maybe after about three days of this, the girls, they started to have a different opinion about the tapping sounds. when the tapping was pretty much only coming from the basement, it felt like mom. But they noticed about the day three, four mark, the tapping began to migrate through the house. And it began originating from places that were a little bit frightening. Like they'd be laying in bed and they'd hear tapping under their bed, or they'd hear tapping coming from their closet. Or it was in other parts of the house that felt a little bit ominous and it scared them.

And they started to worry that maybe our seance were. but it didn't bring mom out. Maybe it brought a demon out. Maybe it's like we've invited something we don't want into our house. And so the girls went from, dad, check it out. Mom's here. The taps are her to, Dad, I'm scared. I keep hearing the tapping noises.

I think it's a demon. I think there's a ghost or something in the house. And at that point, Frank, he sort of went from allowing this to happen to being a little bit more authoritative and saying to the girls, look, like, I know you lost your mom. I know you're dealing with it. You've got to let the stuff go. Like there's no tapping in the house. There's no ghost.

There's no nothing. You guys are fine. Sort of doing the sort of it's you got to get with reality here. But the girls are like, no, dad, you don't understand it. Like we're not lying to you. We don't believe this is mom anymore. We're telling you there's something in our house. And we don't know what it is.

And for some reason you can't hear it, but it's very real. And Frank's like, just let it go. Like there's nothing here. Over the next few days, this is the first week of the post-saience. Now we're at like day four post-saience. The girls now are constantly trying to get Frank to hear these taps because they are still happening all over the place. And Frank's still not hearing him.

He's getting progressively more upset with them, no longer being soft, more like you've got to cut it out. This has got to stop. I think you guys might need to go into counseling or something. This is getting out of control. Girls are adamant. They're not lying. Fast forward to it was almost exactly a week from the seance. The girls, this is the first time they're going to be home since they started getting scared.

When they noticed they were getting scared all the time, Frank said that they could stay at friend's houses when he was staying out late or he would stay home. This represents the first time they're going to be home alone at night while he does a late shift now that they're scared of their house. And so they're already on edge. And in the beginning of the night, there's no taps. The house is quiet. And the girls, they know they're not going to sleep. They're too scared. There's waiting in the kitchen for their dad to come home. But at some point, they start hearing tapping noises, the sort of sporadic random tapping sounds. And they can tell it's coming from the basement. basement door is shut. And the two girls that look at each other, I mean, this has been going on

practically every day. It's sort of expected. And Tina, the older one, looks at Karen and it's like, we have to go down. Like, we have to go down and see what this is. To this point, they had never really actually investigated it. Every time they heard tapping, even under their beds, they'd be so scared, they wouldn't look. They would just accept that, like, that was mom or it wasn't mom. And they just, they never looked for it. They never went all the way. And so Tina, she grabs a knife from the kitchen block and little Karen gets behind her and they open up the basement door and they can literally hear tapping coming from somewhere in the dark basement and they flip on the lights and they go down the stairs and they get to the basement and there's nothing down there. It's like utterly devoid of anything

down there. And in some ways it was almost worse than had they discovered like a fucking dude down there or something because now maybe some part of them had thought we are making this up. But now they're hearing tapping. There is no point. There's nowhere it could be coming from. They're freaked out. They turn and they start running back up the stairs. And as they do, they notice on the wall in the stairwell in red is written, I'm in your closet.

Come find me. Oh, shit. And so the girls, they see that. They sprint out of the basement. They don't go to check their closet. They run out of the house. They run next door to their neighbor's house. They're banging on the door.

Oh, my God. The neighbor comes to the door. He's aware they've lost their mom. He knows that they're like, you know, dealing with some really serious issues. He just lets him inside and they're hysterical. They're trying to explain that like, oh, there's writing on the wall. There's ghosts. Oh, my God.

And the neighbor's like, you're fine. You're staying here. You're safe. Like, just stay here. We'll wait for your dad to get home. He'll know what to do. Like, just, it's okay. So the girls are hysterical.

They're in the neighbor's house. Frank comes home a little bit later. He pulls in the driveway. And the neighbor promptly goes out and says, hey, here's what happened. I don't know. They said something about writing in your basement. I don't understand it, but I just want you to know they're safe in the house. So just want you to, whatever you want to do. And Frank's like, oh, okay, yeah, okay, I get it. This has been going on the whole week. It's okay. Just tell them, I'll go look in the house and I'll make sure it's safe and then we'll get him back home. And so Frank goes in the house and there's nothing amiss. You know, the house is normal. You know, they'd left the door open. But, you know, he goes inside and, you know, there's nothing that seems out of the ordinary. He eventually finds his way into the basement and he sees for himself the writing on the wall that says, I'm in your closet, come find me. But he sees it's written in ketchup. And he immediately thinks, my daughters must have done this.

They've now taken this delusion to the next level. They're actually adding props to it. They're making it, maybe they want me to believe this is real. So they've done this. So he's not scared at all. He's just like, what the fuck is this? And so he checks the whole house. There's nobody there.

He sees the writing. It's ketchup. So he leaves. He goes to his girls. and he just says to them, look, you're starting therapy. There's no two ways about it. This has gotten completely out of control, and you're starting like tomorrow.

You're going to therapy. And the girls are so scared and resigned, frankly, that they don't even know what to do that they didn't even fight with their dad. They just started like, fine. And so literally, I think it was actually the next day or very shortly thereafter, the girls start therapy.

And around the same time, they start grief counseling, all the tapping in the house stops. Just completely stops. It's like everything goes back to normal. No weirdness. The girls even said, like it just felt better in the house. And they began to attribute it to must be the therapy.

And the dad's like, yeah, obviously, they didn't say it to them. But that's his thinking. He's like, of course, this is just grief manifesting. A couple of weeks later, this is things are great in the house. Tapping's done. Everything's good. Frank took Tina, Karen, and I think their friend whose name was Maureen, out for ice cream. So they go off ice cream, it's the evening, and then they come back to Frank's house.

And when they get there, Frank actually notices that something's off about the house. It's late at night, and he sees that there are lights on in the house that he didn't remember leaving on. He couldn't be 100% sure, but it immediately made him think, that's weird. I definitely didn't leave that light on. And so he gets in front of the girls. He doesn't tell them this. He just sort of puts himself in front of them. He walks up onto the porch.

And as he's about to open the door to like examine what's going on here, he wanted to be the first one in the house. He hears the TV is on inside the house. And he stops and he looks at the girls and the girls at this point pick up that something odd is going on, that Frank has noticed something. And even though things have been good, Tina and Karen know how quickly this got really bad in this house. So they're like back into that mode of, oh no, what do you see, what's going on here? And Frank, he looks at his daughters and he's like, did you guys leave the TV on? Was that you? and they're like, no.

And so Frank's like, what? The world is going on here? Like, I definitely didn't do that. And so Frank, he's sort of looking at his daughters, trying to size up. Like, are you doing this stuff again? He didn't say it to them, but he's thinking it. But then he's also like, I was just out with them the whole time.

I was with them the whole time. Like, I was the last one to leave the house, and I didn't leave the TV on. So he has these competing realities that don't mesh. I know my daughters were the ghost, so to speak. but I can't explain what's going on right now. So he enters the house and the girls are terrified and they've sort of tucked themselves up behind Frank and he's like almost half invested sort of walking through the house.

Like what in the world is going on here? Girls are so scared right behind him and he goes room to room just looking around and there's weirdness like the TV's on the radio's on. Again, there were some lights on but that was basically it. He searched the whole house and he doesn't find anything beyond those oddities. And then the last room that he hadn't checked was the front room of the first floor that overlooked the road. It was basically right off the main door. He just hadn't gone to it yet.

And so Frank, again, he's just like in disbelief that this is going on. He walks straight in to this room. So he's basically facing the window that leads out to the road out front where they arrived. And as he walks in, he looks up and he sees on the drapes above the window as someone had written in shaving cream, the words, marry me on the shaving cream. and he's staring at it. And he looks back at his girls. And again, he's like, do you guys do this?

He's looking at the words. And he's just staring at them. And the girls are staring at them. And they're all scared. And then they hear movement inside of this room. And there's this little closet in the back corner of this small front room. And Frank looks over and it opens up. And this person walks out of the closet wearing his wife's wedding dress,

clown makeup on their face with a hatchet over their shoulder. and they walk out into the middle of the room and they look over at Frank and the girls and they just point to the stairs and they just go go upstairs. And so Frank is immediately in like, what the fuck is going on? And he grabs the girls

and he starts like ushering them behind him out the door back into the house. And this dude with the clown makeup and the dress and the hatchet is just slowly pacing towards them. And Frank sort of brings the girls upstairs. He's just positioning himself between the hatchet person and his kids

and they go in the first bedroom and the girls all go in, and then when Frank goes in the room, again, this person's just slowly walking up, he slams the door and he holds it tight. And suddenly there's a struggle at the door between the hatchet person and Frank, they're fighting at the door. And Tina, the 15-year-old, just turns and runs and jumps out the second floor window, just jumps, clean out the window, smashes to the ground. She runs to that same neighbor. And she tells them, oh, my God, there's somebody in the house. You got to call 911. So the same neighbor who had the whole ketchup thing happen, he's like, oh, my God, like, what's on calls 911. The police show up minutes later and when they get there, they look up and they see Frank

and Karen and the friend Maureen. They're all leaning out the window of that same room screaming like, get us down from here. There's a, there's somebody in the house. He's gone. I don't know where he is, but there's somebody here. And so the police, they put the ladder up to the window. They go up. They get all the kids out. They get Frank out. Everybody's safe. And then they bring all the kids and Frank over to the neighbor's house. And they're like, you stay in there. We're going to make sure no one's in there. We're going to find whoever you, whoever you're going to. you're talking about. And so guns drawn, the police go into the house, and they search the house, and they can't find anybody. But they do find a hatchet leaning up against the back sliding glass

door that was opened partially, suggesting somebody was here that matched the description you gave that has now fled the scene. And so afterwards, the police are like, okay, Frank, you know, we're going to look for this person, you know, the dress wearing, clown makeup wearing, hatchet-wielding maniac, but admittedly, we don't even really know what to look for. You've described them as a man, but frankly, just based on the description, they could be either. Don't really know how old they are. It's going to be really hard to narrow this down, even though they're really distinct, what you've described.

But here's what we're going to do. Stay with family. Stay away from here. And we'll keep an eye on your house for the next couple of days. We'll search the town. We'll look for this person. and then when the coast is clear you can come back and hopefully we find this person. So Frank and his kids and then the friend they all leave and Frank and his girls

they go stay with a friend. And over the next couple of days, the police are in contact with Frank and they're staking at his house, you know, basically just watching it and they're looking around town. They can't find anybody, you know, that matches the description. But, you know, no one's coming in or out of the house and there's no sign of anybody in town or anything that gives away, you know, who this guy is or whatever. So it's sort of a dead end. It's like terrifying dead end.

So after three days of this, Frank is sort of restless from not living in his house. You know, he's left all this shit at the house, all his toiletries and stuff like that. It's all at the house. And so in the middle of the day, three days into this, he decides, you know what, I'm going to go back to my house real quick and just like going real quick, get my toothbrush, whatever, and I'll be out of there. And so he drives over to his house. But before he goes, he's like, actually, you know what, I should probably tell the police who's there monitoring the house. I don't want them to accidentally think I'm like breaking into my own house. And so he goes to like his neighbor's house and he calls the police.

And he's looking at his property and he didn't see any police cars marked or otherwise near his property. And he thinks that's weird. You know, maybe they're on the other side or something. But he calls the police and he's like, hey, it's me. I'm going in. I'm doing this thing. And they're like, okay. And as Frank is like having this discussion, he's looking out the window at his property.

And he notices that there's somebody or he thinks for a second, he sees someone moving around in the second floor of his house. And, like, he couldn't be sure, but he immediately tells the officer, he's like, hey, I, I, I think, I think one of your guys is in my house. Are you, like, are you monitoring my house from the inside? Just, like, let them know, I'm going to be going in there and I don't want to scare anyone. This is correct. And the officer's like, no one's gone inside your house. No one's come in or out of your house. No police officers gone inside of your house. You must be seeing things. There's no one in your house. And so, Frank's like, I know I just saw someone, like, I'm nearly positive. I saw someone in my bedroom. and the police officers are like, do not go in your house. We are going to go in and search your house. Make sure it's okay. So remember, over these three days, there has been a couple times where the police had left and there was a gap in security on the outside, monitoring the property. But damn near 24 hours a day, there's someone physically watching this house.

And they had not seen anybody interact with the house at any point. And so this is the first time anyone's going inside the house. And so the officers, they go up to the front door, and they unlock the door. they go inside and it's just fucking madness inside of this house. There are pennies that are glued to the ceiling all across the first floor. There are knives driven into the pictures in the wall of the girls. Tina and Karen with the words like, I'm going to kill you. You're dead all over the house.

And there are like half-filled champagne glasses like champagne flutes around the house. And furniture is not broken, but it's like toppled over and like organized in weird ways around the house. And you're thinking like you would have seen this shit happen inside the house, right? So now the police are like Huge gap in security Clearly someone's coming in and out of this house They're probably here now Frank just claimed to have seen someone And so they full bore like guns out

They tear this house apart looking for Whoever is in this house It's like a full effort Loads of people there top to bottom And for hours they're searching the stupid house And they can't find anyone There's weird shit here no doubt But there is no one in this house

And like there's not even any footprints Outside of the house Suggesting because there's snow on the ground that would have shown them coming in or out of the house. And so finally, a couple of the officers are down in the basement of this house and they're like frustrated. They've been just looking endlessly and they can't find it. And they're like, man, like we must have missed something. Like, I don't know what we miss, but we missed something. And one of them is leaning up against the washer, the washer or dryer that's down in the basement, like the only things down in the

basement. And at some point it like moves. Like his weight caused the washer to literally just move. and it revealed a hole in the wall of the basement that had been overlooked by the entire group of police that had searched this house over and over again. No one thought to look behind the washer dryer. And they get their flashlight out and they look into this hole in the wall and they see there's a tunnel that's burrowed into the wall

and they shine down into the back corner and there's this person crouched in the corner in the wall wearing a dress with clown makeup on looking back at the police. they pull this person out of the wall you're looking at Marks you just fuck Mark up bro go on

I'm getting kind of proven right here a little bit okay go on they pull this person out of the wall and they get arrested and this person would say who they are and why they were there so their name was Danny Danny LaPlante. He was 16 years old. And Danny a year earlier, like six months earlier, had gone on a date with Tina, or he believed that they were on a date or maybe they were out together. But he saw it as like a romantic connection. And he felt like she had spurned his advances and he felt really put off by it. And so naturally, he broke into their house as retaliation and built this tunnel in the basement of the house. And over the course of

six months. He was living in their walls. Not full time. He would leave. Get this. During the day, while they're out and about in their house, just like living their lives, he also would just leave the wall. He'd walk around their house. He'd just like come up. He should have been caught dozens of times and he wasn't. He was just living. He began burrowing into other parts of the wall. There were holes or there was a way to get up to one of the other walls up in the second floor, I believe. But he was in the basement at when they were doing the seance for their mom. him. And he knew they were trying to contact their mother. And he admitted that he pretended to be their mother by doing those rapid taps. And so he pretended to be their mother and he continued

to make those tapping hands. He would walk into their bedrooms and he would flick the springs under their bed. He's not even hiding. He's just under their bed in the middle of the night and no one ever caught him. But it gets worse. So he has this just horrifying thing that for basically six months to a year, he's living in their walls. It's just like spying on them, eating their food, flicking the walls, torturing them, right? So he gets arrested, and he is let out on bail or whatever it is for minors. He's basically allowed to roam the streets until his trial. Ten months after he was pulled from the wall, he broke into another family's house,

except he murdered the entire family. Oh, shit. And he had no connection to them whatsoever. He's alive. Danny LaPlante is alive right now. He's in Max Security Prison, and he has, zero remorse and he was recently he's not he was not released he's not going to be released

he was put up for parole and during the parole hearing there's like an element of trying to discuss whether or not this person is capable of rehabilitation and they determined the parole board that arguably Danny LaPlant is the single most psychotic person in the entire prison system

and he denied parole hmm what the fun so that's a real life demon right there dude that's a story dude. Holy shit. Come on, let me get this guy. Have you told this one before? Yeah, I've told it live quite a bit. Oh my God. That's an insane one, dude. That's a good one. The term is

frogging. And how do you not believe in demons, bro? So that dude, how do you not believe in demons? Just a full-blown sociopath. Socio or psycho? I think, well, I think, I think, I don't know. I think psychotic was the word that they used to describe him, which is sort of like the understatement of the year here. What is the difference between socio and psychopath? Isn't socio like not feeling anything? Psychotic would be like not of sound mind. So you can be, I'm probably so wrong, but I believe sociopathic is you lack empathy,

you lack the feelings, but you might be a good person, but you don't have the ability to understand that my actions could hurt you and that type of thing. I think psychotic probably lends itself to people who are also sociopathic, but I think that's more like you do things that are like mentally unwell like a break from reality yeah like you're acting on things that's that's also being psychotic but then there's also psychopathic but that's someone who is psychotic psychopathic and psychopathia right where were his parents I don't know I think yeah like yeah I don't know yeah well he by the way he would leave the house but I think he had a very dysfunctional home life and so he was able to be in and out of the house I believe but is that him as an adult

right now? No, I don't... No. No, I think him in real life now looks like a guy that should be in prison. He looks like he don't give him fuck. And you know what's weird is like he looks relatively young still, you know? He's just like this out of the sun. Nondescript

sort of like weird looking guy. Yeah, there he is. Oh my God. Danny LaPlante. Looks like a judge. His cardigan Is that a prison issued? Look at that. Whoa. Yeah, he was born in Townsend, Massachusetts, parents divorce. He claimed to have been psychologically and sexually abused by adults in his life.

And then his classmates described him as creepy and weird and was considered a loner. Residents in the neighborhood described him as disturbed or strange. Whoa. Fuck me, dude. All right, guys, this fall, I'm back in the lab, getting the new hour ready. And I just want to say thank you so much for New Brunswick, New Jersey, Houston, and West Nyeck for selling out all the shows. Also coming to Indianapolis, Indiana, October 23 and 24th, Birmingham, Alabama, November 6th and 7th, Cleveland, Ohio, November 13th, 14th, Raleigh, North Carolina, December 4th, the 5th, Columbus, Ohio, December 11th, and 12th. Those are the remaining shows for this fall.

Theandre Shultz.com for tickets. I will see you there. Ever feel like car shopping is designed to make you second-guess yourself? I know I have. You find a vehicle you like, then immediately start wondering, is this really a good price? Am I missing something? That's one reason I appreciate Car Gurus. It puts the important information right in front of you.

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Buy your next car gurus at car gurus.ca. Go to car gurus.ca. To make sure your big deal is the best deal. That's C-A-R-G-U-R-U-S dot CA. Car gurus.com. The Dial-Up Pass is, it's fascinating. And 1959, there are these nine hikers who are really like mountaineers in Russia. And they were going up for what's called their Level 3 hiking exam, which sounds sort of lame,

but it effectively amounts to like the highest degree of mountaineering in Russia at the time. So if you pass this test, you're sort of like the top mountaineer, if you will. Not many people have this credential. So the Navy SEALs of hikers. Sort of. Sort of, kind of. These guys are very serious mountaineers. So the way it works is you need to plan a route you, the test taker.

You've got to plan a route that sort of is technically challenging enough on a piece of paper that someone can look at it. I think it's like a university and they approve that yes, this is most, this is difficult enough that if you successfully navigate this path and there's checkpoints along the way, you know, you pass your test, right? So they set it up. They talk to this university that's going to effectively be their graders and they were given or they gave, like here's how long it's going to take us.

We're going to start here. We're going to enter the year-all mountains. These like snow-swept, like huge icy mountains. And we're going to nap. It's a multi-week-long course. It's a pretty long course. Oh, wow. Okay.

And they're going to get to X number of checkpoints, and we'll be out in February of 1959 or whatever it is. So there was a protocol in place for if they didn't get to a checkpoint. I believe there's a little bit of grace period if they didn't hit a checkpoint. They had to, I forget how they were even in contact. But either way, there was a little bit of grace. And then at the end, when they finished, there was a little bit of grace if they were late. But for the most part, if you were late, you sort of failed the test right away.

You had, I think, 24 hours or something. And so they pretty much enacted a rescue policy if you were late. Because it's like, you already failed. We might as well get you out of their safe and sound. So I don't know exactly if they actually made their checkpoints. But I do know because really the story picks up when it's clear they have not returned from the journey. They've entered the wilderness and they have not come out again. And this is not a place where there are other tourists. This might as well be Antarctica. This is like the middle of nowhere.

And the university, they send out a cursory search sometime in February to go look for these hikers. And they have the route that they were supposed to be on. And they're going in reverse. They're sort of backtracking. And they get to this point where they look out and they see this huge mountain. And on the side of the mountain is this one canvas. tent that's sort of, you know, conspicuously sitting on the side of the wind-swept side of the mountain, which is tactically like the worst place to put a tent. These are skilled mountaineers. There's a crops of trees down here would have saved you from the wind. It's just an odd place. It's like an amateur would put a tent there. So already it's like red flag, but there's no hikers

anywhere. They walk up to the tent, and that's actually the tent right there on the left. And it's collapsed. They see that. And even though I don't think you can tell from this picture, but they pulled the snow off of it and they looked at this tent and there was a cut made in the tent that looked like someone had cut it with a knife but apparently based on the way the threads looked it had been cut from the inside out so somebody in this tent and it was the hikers tent one because there's nobody else out here but two there some of their equipment was still inside the tent that identified it as theirs hikers are not there it's been cut open from the inside out a lot of their clothing that

would have been required to survive in the cold it was negative 40 degrees was still in the tent. Lots of cold weather gear was still sitting in the tent. So it's like, okay, this is really bad. Where are they? Also, fun fact, I learned, minus 40 degrees Fahrenheit is the same as minus 40 degrees Celsius. Fun fact.

Oh, shit, I know it. So the university, they realized that we now have a pretty serious problem here because this is obviously quite bad. So they round up, I believe the police, or not the police, I think the army was rounded up for a much more robust search. And they ended up finding a sense. set of prints in the snow not far from the tent that initially, I guess they discounted, but it was prints left by the hikers. And they were traveling in a group. And the footprints were,

there were at least eight sets of prints. There were nine total hikers. They could see eight for sure. Many of them only had one shoe on. So it's like barefoot boot or barefoot sock or just two barefeets or two boots. But again, you're entering the, you know, negative 40 degrees, the cold had made no sense and they cut their tent open and they saw that the cadence of the footsteps were they were not running like these are not people running down the mountain

they're walking the space between all the steps was a very casual pace and so they follow these footsteps down the hill and it brings them to this this forest there weren't not a forest it was a crops of trees, it was pretty small and the footsteps sort of stop at the edge and they're looking into this

this dark foreboding forest and they can't see anybody in there and they start weaving their way into the trees. They pick up a few prints here and there, and it brings them to this clearing where there's this huge cedar tree that's right in the middle of the clearing. And at the base of the tree is one of the hikers,

and there's a burned out fire, a puny little fire that couldn't have provided much warmth that's burned out. And one of the hikers is sort of curled around it like they were trying to get warm and they're deceased. They're not really wearing enough clothes. They're clearly died from some sort of exposure, or hypothermia, whatever.

And then they see the tree has various scratch marks in it. Not super aggressive, but there's some scratch marks in it. And they also found higher up the tree, there were broken branches and some human sounds aggressive, but there's human flesh, but it suggests someone had climbed pretty high up the tree at one point and left behind their skin. And then one report said there was one of the hikers draped in a tree. I actually recently have seen, I don't think that was true, but there were two other hikers that were on the ground near the guy near the fire.

So there's like three hikers that are all dead, all in various stages of sort of bedraggledness. Their clothes were all fucked up, and they're all dead. And one of them later they would find he had some of his own skin, I think from his hand in his mouth, like he had swallowed it. So he was eating himself, presumably. Or theoretically, someone could have put it into his mouth, but it looked like he was eating himself.

But they're missing the other hikers. And so they look within the forest and they find another two hikers that were a little bit further away from the cedar tree. They're also all dead. So they're all dead. It looks like, okay, something caused them to flee their tent. They weren't prepared. Their clothes are not right. Hypothermia, you know, mass hysteria.

I mean, it looks like this is just a horrible tragedy. They also haven't found the other four hikers yet. But already the picture of their painting is this is like a mass hysteria event or something. but these are also very experienced mountaineers who go into this type of environment a lot. It would be like if you went on your podcast and then suddenly forgot how to do your podcast, it'd be like, I guess that's possible, but realistically it's just not going to happen. And so it was like, okay, maybe that's what it is. But they couldn't find the other hikers.

And it was the weather was quite bad. And so they decide at this point, it's not going to be a, we're not going to find them. Or I should say it's a body recovery at this point. They're very likely dead if these five have been found dead already. So they wait until the snow thaws and they come back in the spring in like May and they're still quite a bit of snow out there, but there's the remains of this old snow cave, this big snowdrift. And they find the other four hikers inside. They've clearly taken shelter inside of this cave. And they have just catastrophic injuries.

They're all dead. One of them has this chest injury that was consistent with being struck by a speeding train, I think they said. However, Lexus chest is caved in, like utterly caved in, but he has no or very limited lacerations or bruising on his skin. It's almost like his chest caved in without any external force being applied. The woman, she had her lips, her eyelids, and I think a piece of her nose or maybe her ears, or forget which, they were gone. Animal predation is a thing after you die.

Animals might pick at your body, but usually there's a tearing to it. Like it doesn't look neat, and these were neat. like almost like cuts were made in her face to pull the skin off of her face. One guy was missing his eyeballs, but again, animal predation that could have explained that one as well. They were wearing the other's clothing, at least some variation of the other's clothing. So they weren't wearing enough, but like the woman was wearing men's clothing and the men were wearing women's clothing. And there were trace levels of radiation on several of their clothing's. And so they're all dead.

And so this discovery is made. And in some ways, this story was already pretty big in Russia at the time because the hikers' families were really up in arms about how little information had been discovered. It just sort of felt like how in the world can this have happened? And there isn't some huge investigation. Why aren't we doing more? We can't just say, oh, yeah, they went crazy and just died out there. We'll find the others in the spring.

They were already pretty mad. And so when this happened, Russia, in turn, they did launch a, fairly public investigation into what happened and really just to respond to the outcry. But they very quickly shut the investigation down and classified it all. And the families were not given much in the way of information. They were just sort of told, oh, yeah, like we're just going to shut it down. But some information got out. One, and more today, because they unredacted or, yeah, they unredacted most of it.

one is the conclusion that Russia came to is that the nine hikers who died they didn't die from exposure they died from a compelling force was what they described it as a compelling force that was it force. That was it. And then in addition, there were all these people in Russia in the vicinity of the Ural Mountains on the outskirts, including a fairly senior military official who was running a military operation or a training exercise in the Urals, but not close, just but somewhere in the Urals, that reported these orbs of fire. Independent people who did not talk to each other described orbs of fire shooting up and down in the Ural Mountains around the same time. that these hikers all died.

And the military guy, he even went so far as to say that he thought they were being invaded and he stopped the exercise, this huge military exercise, because he was fearful that we might actually need to go literally defend our country right now.

No one ever explained what the orbs of fire were. Compelling force was all that was given for what happened to this mean? So they went classified. And so this mystery remained a mystery for decades. And everyone's like, holy shit.

And also there's pictures. Like there's more pictures from this. There's pictures of the hikers when they step out. They're all in good spirits. Everyone's so happy. They're like doing selfies in like 1959. It's like, wow. Like it's like sort of a movie.

It's so nice. And then it's just like death and destruction. See, I was thinking like a bear attacked them in the tent and they had to leave in a hurry. That's why they didn't have all the shoes. There's like no animals out there. Oh, wow. So finally in 2020, and this is probably part of the reason why the story. really went as big as it did for me on my TikTok page is I told it by saying at the end of this

story, you're going to Google two words. And then I tell this little bit about what happened. And then at the end, I say, this is known as the Diatlov Pass. If you Google Deatlov Pass, it's this fucking mystery. And right around that time, Russia unredacted what happened and they gave more information. It was definitely nothing to do with me. It was just timing. And they did their own new investigation into the Diat law of pass and what happened and they concluded that it was an avalanche. There you go.

But the thing is, I'm saying it sort of facetiously, no one really buys that's... Oh, no one buys the avalanche thing. There's so many discrepancies. They were like, oh, an ice slab broke off and it caused them to run out of their tent. And that's why.

And then they sort of like got scattered and they died. And like, okay, fine. totally by that like there could be a sudden oh my god ice is crashing down we got to go hear the ice you cut out of the tent i think mark you were explaining this to us i don't know if was another another pod but was it was a did we record a pod so you hear the avalanche you cut out the tent is organized in a way we're unhooking all the things is more time consuming than just cutting out you don't have all your stuff because you got to go right now or you die so like that part makes sense totally trying to climb up the tree to you know oh climbing

up the tree. Some of your skin is on the tree. Totally. Because you're climbing a fucking tree. Start eating your hand because you're scared. You know? Now we're getting a little weird. Lose eyeballs because there's, you know, animals and birds and stuff. You start eating your eyes. You take your knife out. You cut your lips off. What about lips for What about lips is you get

What is that called? Chapp lips. Yeah, chap lips. You got out of the cat lips. What is the shit where it's a frostbite and then when it thaws, it just decomposes. Oh, that is just frostbubes. And it turned black, they were getting ahead of it. So they just cut it off some wind up. Yeah, so you don't buy it. You think something fishy is weird.

The what? The radiation. Yeah, but they're Russian. Like, I don't know. I feel like it was very low levels. And so people have said that it's possible that their clothes could have been contaminated going in. But like, I think that the thing that stands out is that the reports of the multiple

fireballs, those reports hadn't been made before. But so many people did it. And they're like, oh, that's weird. it's in the same spot where all those hikers just died really mysteriously got to be an avalanche but couldn't that be like russia's just trying to sweat us like we get all the aliens they get none they're trying to use a tragedy to like make us think oh the aliens like us too yeah yeah i mean that could be it's aliens don't go anywhere but america that's right that is how aliens work i've never heard of anybody say there's aliens

and Brazil but that's part of the americas and they've probably seen a porn that came out of yeah that's how it is that's how it is also If you're alien, where are you going to go? America. I'm not going to Russia. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. If you're Ukrainian, where do you want to go?

You want to go to America. Everyone wants to go to America. Ukraine is kind of lit. I'm not going to lie. All right, all right. So that's the Dialov pass. But that we can find, like, certain, there's certain... Yeah, sure.

Yeah. What about military testing and then cause the avalanche? Ooh. Oh, that's another theory is that perhaps Russia was testing military equipment. And they're like, oh, boy, that went wrong. Oopsie-Dazee. Better cover that. I feel like that's the most plausible one.

Yeah. I think that would explain the fireballs. Yeah, they're doing some military testing. It causes an avalanche. They have to cover it up because they're like, you know, we accidentally killed nine people. Yeah. And so they're like, oh, it's just a regular old avalanche. And then the families are like, well, they wouldn't have gone in an avalanche area.

And they're like, eh, don't look into it. Exactly. Dude, I have a great story that's in the same vein as this one, but very different genre. Yes. So there's this dude, David Lewis. This is in 1989, successful lawyer. He lives in Emeril of Texas. with his wife and his young daughter.

And in many ways, his life is sort of unremarkable. He's sort of living the American dream, if you will. But, you know, he's sort of living a basic life. He likes to watch sports. He's got a couple of friends. He goes to work nine to five. And in January of that year, this is again, 1989, his wife and his daughter, they decide they're going to go on this weekend trip to Dallas.

I think it was to see family. But it was a trip that normally David would have gone with them to just go be a part of the trip. But it was the Super Bowl weekend. And he's like, actually, you know what? I'm going to stay here. I'm going to just watch the Super Bowl. You guys go. You know, see when you get back.

And they're like, okay. And there's nothing going on in his life or their life. Everything's fine. And he's like a total nerd to like a dude with glasses like just, David Lewis. You're probably going to give it away if you Google it. You might want to hold it. I don't give it away.

Anyhow. So the mom and the daughter, they leave. And they come back a couple of days later on the day of the Super Bowl. They actually return to their house in Amarillo. like literally within 30 minutes of the actual game coming to an end. And when they get to the house, they expected to see her husband, her father, either cleaning up after having watched the game or still watching the post game or something. But they go in the house and there's nothing odd about the inside of the house, but they see the TV's on and it's on the channel for the Super Bowl and the game's over. It's postgame.

And David had a habit of recording major sports games like the Super Bowl. World Series. And so the VHS was still recording. He had clearly hit record at the start of the game. But David's not in the room with the TV. And so the wife is walking around the first floor. She's calling out for David. It doesn't appear to be here. She gets to the kitchen and she sees that his wedding ring and his watch are sitting on the counter, which was a little bit weird. She couldn't recall the time that he did that. But it was like odd. So she's in the kitchen. Like what in the world? Like he's not here. She ends up opening the fridge. And she sees there are two fresh. made turkey sandwiches, which was sort of his go-to sandwich, just sitting in the fridge. And so she's like, that's so weird.

Like, all signs point to David should still be here. And then she went outside, and she realized she hadn't noticed, but his car was actually not in the driveway. She just hadn't seen it when she showed up. And so she's like, okay, he probably went to go catch the end of the game with a friend or something. And apparently their return trip that night was a little bit early. So she's thinking he didn't know we'd even be here right now.

So it's totally normal. He's probably out of a buddy's house. he'll be home soon. It's 1989. She can't really call him. So she's like, okay, whatever. So she stays up. Her daughter goes to bed and she's just waiting for David to come back, but David doesn't come back. And so she ultimately, the wife just goes to bed thinking, okay, he's a responsible guy. There's, you know, no sign of anything wrong here. It's a little weird, but everything's fine. So she goes to bed. And then she gets up in the morning. David's still not home. So at this point, she's concerned. She goes to the police. The police that day, they start searching Amarillo for David, and they quickly find his car. and it's been abandoned near the courthouse. Remember, he's a lawyer just for reference, so it's near the courthouse. And no damage to his car, but it's parked in the lot. He's not there. There's no sign of him.

He's not in the courthouse. And they look in the car, and they find his checkbook, his license, his wallet, are in sort of the cup holders where he would normally keep them. And then under the mat on the driver's side where the keys to the car and the keys to his house. And so David's not there. His stuff's all been left here. they look all over that area. They can't find him. No one seemed David. He did not go to a friend's house, at least not anyone they know. And so no one has any idea what happens to David, what's happened to

David. So the wife is immediately brought in. Like you got to tell us. Like, is there, was there any sign of something going on with David at all, like that you can think of? Because this seems like foul play could be involved. And she's like, no, the only thing I can think of is that he was supposed to give a deposition in the next couple of weeks for the old law firm that he worked for. They were wrapped up in a really vicious lawsuit with a high-profile client, and the law firm was being accused of something like medical, like malpractice, and the firm was trying to get David to lie in this deposition to protect the firm. They didn't know this, but he was not prepared to lie under oath. He had told his wife, I'm going to tell the truth, even if it hurts somebody. And so she had said, David had said to me, I feel like I'm in danger, but she had always interpreted this.

that as I think that in the future, if I do this, something could happen. Like, if I destroy somebody's image, I could be in danger. And so she thought that it was like, you're doing the right thing. It is what it is. But she's like, beyond that, there's nothing else in his life. So the police don't have much to go on. They expand their search, but there's no sign of David. And 11 months later, David still hasn't shown up. And they officially say, this is no longer being viewed as a crime. We're going to view this as David chose to disappear. We believe he's elected to basically abandon his life. People do do that.

He's an adult. There's no sign of a crime. They interviewed the law firm and the client. They're like, oh, my God, I have no idea. So it's just decided that, well, I guess David just went his own way. It is what it is. And so the family's left with nothing. I believe it was 11 years later.

So 2004, that was 1993. This is actually, yeah, 1993, for sure that was the start. So now it's 2004. And out in Washington State, there's this cop who is a big true crime enthusiast. He loves, just personally he loves true crime and he's a cop. Part of the reason he was a cop. And he was always digging into like rabbit holes of unsolved mysteries. He thought they're really interesting.

And he had just learned about this one particular mystery of this hit and run. It was a John Doe that had happened in Washington. He actually was one of the first cases that he had worked on when he became a cop 11 years earlier. He began investigating it, investigating it because people were like talking about it online. Basically, this guy had been struck on the side of the road in Washington and he had no ID. He was wearing military fatigues and he was just walking along this highway and this cop had

been the first on the scene and he had seen him. And like, it just stuck with him. It was this weird thing where nobody ever identified him. Simultaneously, he saw this like news report, this cop did about. about how David Lewis was still missing after 11 years, and the family was giving an interview about David Lewis, and he saw a picture of David Lewis, and he was like, oh my God, I think that's the same guy

from the John Doe case. I think he's the guy who got hit 11 years ago. And so he pulled out the evidence, I suppose, included the glasses of the guy who was hit and killed. It was the same prescription, same type of glasses. They ultimately did DNA. It took a minute, but they discovered that, sure enough, the John Doe, who had been a totally unidentified body

the side of the road was David Lewis, which means, also, when he was hit and killed, was 24 hours after the wife and daughter came home from the trip. So if we follow the what's happened here, David Lewis starts watching the game, the Super Bowl game, assuming that he's the guy who turned the TV on and hit record on the VHS. Within 24 hours, without the use of his car, without his ID, without any of his belongings. He winds up 1,600 miles away in Yokima, Washington, walking along a deserted highway, is struck and killed, and he's wearing top-to-bottom military fatigues.

He has no identification on him, and he has no connections in Yakima. The client, the high-profile client, and the law firm had nothing to do with Washington, but that was definitely him on the side of the road. And to the day, no one has any idea what happened to David Lewis or why. They took him out. Fire.

It took him out. But how? We don't know. How do you take him out and then move to Washington? What a convoluted way to take some media out. But, I mean, there is. I hope we have the name right,

David Lewis. Yeah. There he is. So what do you think happened? I don't know. I mean, like, there's definitely cases. Have you ever heard of a thing called a fugue state?

No. Oh, man. You want to see some crazy stories? I got another crazy fugue state story. Yeah. Basically, there are these people who there are not necessary. precursors that are known that can cause a fugue state. I'm not saying he was in a fugue state, but imagine you suddenly break from reality.

Like you wouldn't be aware of it because if you break from reality, you don't know you've broken from reality. But you don't totally go crazy. It's almost like you just sort of become a different person. Yeah. But your old self has no idea that this person ever, it's like the show severance. The other show severance. It's like you snap and you become this other person and you're understanding. aware of the old person.

Yeah. And you're in this state for sometimes long periods of time. People committed murders in their fugue state and they had been deemed not guilty because they were in a fugue state. Yeah, we almost saw that happen last week. Oh, yeah. That's right. Yeah.

Yeah, there you go. It happens. So I believe women call it having their period. Jesus Christ. Come on. Is that a little fugue state? It's just a little fugue state. A little fugue state.

So I think that could have happened with him. But then it just doesn't really explain how he gets there. The 6,900 miles is the issue. So it's not possible that they killed him. They took him there and then they just dropped him off on the side of the highway. That's another way to look at it. Actually, you know what? That probably seems to be most likely it.

He's killed somewhere else dropped in Yakima. Yeah. You know what's funny? I've never thought about it that way. That actually does sound like that's... Unless there's some evidence that shows somebody saw the accident's on getting it. They know he's going to tell the truth. They can't have him tell the truth, right?

I don't know what's going to happen to them I don't know what the punishment would be. Unless there's proof that somebody saw him get hit in Washington, he probably got killed and dumped. Yeah, they'd kill him at his house. I thought he was a secret spy and being the lawyer is just his cover. Oh, yeah?

He could be like a little... There were calls, there were someone wandering the street where he was hit minutes before. Yeah, but he... Oh, yeah. If he's wandering, he could have been planted and then struck. You'll put him out there.

We're going to hit him in your chemo. Yeah. I mean, can they prove that he was struck? Like, does he have injuries on the body? Yeah. I bet you can find that, though. Yeah. But there's enough, so there's another guy.

Autopsies consistent with being struck by a vehicle. No evidence of drugs in the bloodstream. Oh, yeah, no drugs. Just do the thing, too. Yeah. Drugs. All right, guys, stay a break for a second. I got to tell you about the best thing to happen a boner since saliva and it's blue-chew gold.

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first order plus free shipping on orders over $95 or use the store locator to find Willys on shells near you, like your local total wine specs, ABC or local liquor store. Let's get back to the show. And before we get back into the show, football season is back. Yes. We can all stop pretending to care about politics. Yes.

Thank the Lord. We have 18 straight weeks of actually caring about something that is important in the world. Knicks and five I think it's going to be Nixon five Don't you wish the Knicks just played every sport Because I feel like that's the only thing You guys really get excited It really is the only thing

We would do better this season if we had the Knicks On the field, I think so I mean, who do New York is even like? You guys like the Jets or something? Depends. On what? Depends. Which other one plays better?

I go worse. Jets or Giants, whoever's worse. I mean, what teams' colors go best for you? I go blue. You go blue. Giants. All day. I'm going for 49ers.

I'm going for the 49ers this year. They've won me over. It's the team I've read about the most so far. It's like this year it's the team that I've been the most invested in. Do you know the owner the same week got like a hand job and got arrested? Like a massage parlor? Apparently we were a part of the sci-op. Yeah.

You kill a story with a story. Because now every time somebody Googles 49ers, they're going to hear about this other dude instead of the owner. Got us. But then we got you back. What are these owners getting hand jobs? Didn't the Patriots owner also get a hand job? Man, why can't they get that? Why can't they get that?

Just buy some pussy. They are. That's the point. That's what they're doing. They're not from their wives. How do you think they're getting a hand job? They can't even risk it. They can't even risk it.

Also, it's just like a completely, whatever. It's a completion thing. Do you know what I mean? How can you really be relaxed? All right. So who do we think is going to win the Super Bowl, honestly? I mean, Kelsey's got the Rams. They got them at 15%.

But I think we need to go all in right now. You know, where are the giants? Oh, they're way. Oh, keep going. Two percent. And then Jets? Even lower. Less than one.

Wow. But you could come up. How could you be negative one percent? Less than one percent. But if you put a dollar on that, you make a trillion dollars? Yeah, yeah. What's the math on that? Yeah, I think you just win.

You win everything. You become Elon Musk. So all that means is there's not even somebody willing to take on your trade. There's no trade volume. Whoa. Damn. Yeah, that's impressive. Nah, that's the one.

Yeah. I think we got to do that. Right? I'm going jets. Yeah, now I'm all in on jets. I'm going jets. Become the richest guy in the world? Ever.

Yeah. Yeah, that's fire. I mean, what's the likely that like an asteroid hits the world? Like, is it higher than that? It's more likely that the world doesn't exist than the Jets win the Super Bowl. That's crazy, right? That is crazy. Kind of impressive.

But also, yeah. Like, I do believe that there's a higher likelihood of an asteroid hidden in the Jets winning. Yeah. Because I can't see a course of action where the Jets could possibly win. But I can see an asteroid hitting the Earth. You can see God reset in this whole thing. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

That seems more likely. Yeah. That's like, hey, this is run amok. We've got to fix this. Yeah. That's sad, bro. Yeah. That's sad. But I would love for the Jets to win just so they can clip this moment of you.

being like, I don't see it. And then to see that go viral. It's happened before. It's happened before. But if it happens for you, you're welcome. Okay? I want tickets to that Super Bowl if you guys get there. Anyway, let's get back to this show, boys.

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Free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. Okay, what's the other one? The other one. This one is better because the conclusion's a little bit harder, but it lands in the same domain. This one's more recent, too. So in 2018, there's this guy, Danny Philippitis.

Have you heard this name? Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Okay, great. It's a great story. Yeah, I wouldn't Google it, he'll give it away. So Danny Philippitis, he's a 40-something-year-old firefighter in Canada, and he and his firefighter buddies every year have this trip where they go to Whiteface Mountain in

upstate New York to go skiing. It's like their retreat. They go there, they drink, they party, they have a great time with their family. And so in 2018, they have this trip. They go to Whiteface Mountain, and it's going great, you know, good day skiing up on the mountain. And at some point during the day, there's a... There's a ski lodge that's like halfway up the mountain, or maybe it's a little restaurant or something,

but the group of them, like 12 of them, they decide to stop and take a minute and get a cup of coffee or whatever. They go in the lodge. And Danny is like, oh, shoot, I left my, I think it was his cell phone or his wallet down at the main lodge down below. I'll get it. So I'll be right back. And so they're, oh, cool, dude.

So he takes off and they see him ski down the mountain and he's a good skier. This is an easy stretch from here down, right? But he doesn't come back up. And at first, the guys that he was with weren't like, oh, my God, where's Danny? It was just sort of like, oh, what an asshole. Like, he sort of blew us off. Like, he's doing something else, right? But over the course of the day, they can't find Danny.

They're calling Danny's not picking up. They're talking to his wife who was there. She doesn't know where he is. No one's seen him, but no one's really worried yet. It's broad daylight. There's been no reports of accidents or anything. Like, he's got to be here. But by the end of the day, as it's like time to rouse,

up and they were staying there overnight. They had stayed and they were all staying in the hotel that was right at the base of the mountain. They're like, man, like, where is he? And they're like, you know, what we should do? Let's just go to his room. He probably just like got tired, went to his room. And so they walk over. This is the whole group, wife, everybody. They walk over and they see his car is still in the parking lot. And they go up to his room. And his wife had a key, or it was their room. Actually, I think it was separate. Either way, they go in. Danny's not in there, but all of the things that he would carry on his person were. His phone, his wallet, like he had a knife that he always carried.

Like, all the things that you would take with you, like, he left them all in the room. But Danny's not in there. And so now it's like what happened, now really what happened to Danny? There's no good reason for this. And so they tell the mountain, like, this is a big deal. The police get involved. And that night, a storm rolls in and the police go out looking for this guy. And, you know, the search was sort of futile because of how bad the weather was.

And so they end up packing it up for the night. like we'll just come back in the morning. We'll try to get the mountain to stop operations so we can really look for him. Chances are good. If he makes it through the night, we'll find him tomorrow. Next day comes around, mountain is like, no, we're going to run operations. It's peak season. We're not doing that. Like, there's been no reports of any injury. Like, you guys got to look on your own. So with a very crowded mountain, which made the search really difficult, they're looking for Danny. They're asking anybody to have footage of the sky. Here's what he looks like. They're asking for anybody that might have taken photos of the parking lot to see if maybe he left at some point,

anything. And like they've got no usable leads. And so that day, and I think two more days, these were all the days that the whole group was still going to be in New York. There's the search that's happening on this very crowded mountain. Danny doesn't show up. There's no sign of him. And then comes the last day where they're checking out of their hotel. There's no sign of Danny. No one can find him. And they are like, well, we have to go back to Canada. You know, our lives go on. So they go back to Canada. And they're in touch with police in, in, New York and they're carrying on the search, but they just, they can't, they can't find Danny, but they're like, don't worry, we're going to keep looking. Like, we're not losing faith, but over the

coming days, it's like the family sort of realizes very likely at this point, Danny's dead. I mean, it's just difficult to imagine a scenario where he's not dead if he was somewhere out on the mountain. Don't know why, but that's, that's the reality. But seven days after he goes missing, so from the day, you know, things started getting weird, his wife is back home in Canada and she gets a phone call and it's fucking Danny and she answers the phone and Danny's like I don't know why I'm calling you but I know this number like how do I know you and she knows it's his voice and she's like oh my god Danny is that you and he's like yeah I think my name's Danny he's like really confused but he knew this number and she through this very broken conversation comes to find out according to Danny

that he's in Sacramento California so like thousands of miles away from whiteface very far away from Canada too. And so their conversation ends up getting broken up and he hangs up or something, but he had imparted to her Sacramento and airport. Those things came out of his mouth. And so she immediately calls police and the police actually in New York and she tells them they get in touch with the police in Sacramento and they're like, go to the airport and see if you can find this guy. Maybe he's got a head injury or something. We don't know. And so they go to the airport and they find Danny really quickly because Danny is wearing

ski gear top to bottom walking around the airport ski boots ski pants ski top he's still at his helmet on goggles but like you know people are when they see really crazy people we just ignore them completely ignore them I'm not going to engage with you at all and so Danny is just wandering around the airport in full ski gear

and then inexplicably he also had a haircut although he didn't have his phone he had a new phone he had a phone that he had recently bought an iPhone he had a thousand dollars cash. He had no bank transactions whatsoever over those seven days, but he had new credit cards, and he had no idea how he got there, and they scoop him up, and they bring him back to Canada, and they, like, do all this testing on him, and he kind of like comes back to reality, if you will.

He had no brain damage. He didn't show any drug use. Like, he's okay now, but he has no fucking clue how he got off the mountain, how he inexplicably traveled to California, got a haircut. asked all the barbers in Sacramento, did you give the guy in ski gear a haircut? No one knew how he got the haircut. They checked the stores that sold iPhones. No one knew. The only thing he said is he thought maybe he hit his head, but he was like, I don't even know. I might just be saying that because it seems to answer the question of what happened to me. And he remembers being, he was sleeping somewhere that he thought might have been a truck. But they interviewed all these truck drivers that drove in that area and not one person recalled a man in ski gear sleeping in their cabin. But Danny, that's, he was

as fully recovered. He's fully, he, the other thing that's funny is Danny was super collaborative with the New York State Police because they were sort of embarrassed that they, that Danny shows up after this huge effort to find him.

It was like, wait a minute. So Danny in ski gear, just wandering around Sacramento, you missed that one. And so New York was like trying to save face, the state police. And Danny was like doing interviews being like, I want to know what happened.

I don't know what happened. And like the state police were like, yeah, he, he talks, constantly. He's given us everything he can, but we have no idea what happened. How long was he away for? It was a week. Sometimes that's all you need is a dad, man. Sometimes that's all you need. He's the reset, dude. Yeah, exactly. Women will just kill their kids, but men, we just need a

fugue state. We need a week away in Sacramento, California just to get our head together and then we're back and locked up. He's a changed man. Yeah, exactly. That's really all you need is just a little bit of a break. Yeah, we got to investigate the family and see what was going on. Yeah. How many kids? No bank transactions. No.

So how to get the money? No one knows. How did you get without your car to Sacramento? You don't think that he planned, like, when we're going on the ski trip and then he just left, you don't think he knew exactly where he was going. You know, hitting a fugue state. Exactly. I'm hitting a feud. I'm hitting a little fugue state.

I got a thousand bucks that took out my wife don't even know about. Right? And now I'm in Sacramento. Where can you go where for sure she won't come? Yeah. You know what I mean? This is fantastic. And then he had to like make it obvious.

He had to like buy a fucking ski outfit of Sacramento. Oh, look at me. He called his wife. He's like, they're really not going to find me? He would get tired. Yeah. Yeah. Did they go through like planes?

Like they can see if he flew, right? Dude, you look at up. The police, they, you can tell they wanted to show they tried really hard because it seems like you just sort of missed the guy. Yeah. But no, they did all these press conferences where they're like, he has been nothing but collaborative, and we don't have a good explanation. Holy shit. That's what we do, man. There's a lot of dance that went on a few.

I'm going to play on one at ease. Mark believes in demons. Oh, nice. Nice. He believes in them, though. Yeah. So any stories you have with demons, he watches them, and he goes, this is proof that what I already believe is real. Well, I've never seen one.

I've never seen one, but I do, I don't want to see one. Because I think that's a fair position. No, that is a fair position. I don't know. The crazy thing is with covering so many stories is I don't know sometimes whether someone's perspective and we're talking about like demon stories. A lot of times you're dealing with somebody's perspective. Whether true or not, like it's their perspective.

They're saying this is what happened to me. But oftentimes the stories that are the most compelling. are people that are almost in denial that had happened to them, but they didn't want it to be true. They're looking for an out. People that want you to see the demon in their story are people that are harder to believe. Yeah.

Or if there was an outside observer. Like there was this one, yeah, or an outside observer, there was this one, and this is a story that, to be honest, I don't know what to make of it. I think it's a creepy story nonetheless, but I don't know if even falls into demon or not, but there was this wildland firefighter out in, I think it was Iowa. He was a smoke jumper.

You know what those guys are? They jump into the fire. High speed dudes. Yeah, those guys are like special operations, firefighters. They're very cool. So they jump in, I think it was this huge fire in Iowa. And where they landed, apparently was like not the ideal drop zone. And so one thing led to another.

And one of the firefighters who ends up telling the story, I think his name is Mike, he sees there's a property that's like sort of nearby and there's an ATV that's outside that he was able to turn on. And there's an access road. And for whatever reason, this is off the cuff here, he knows that if he takes this ATV and, like, blazes down this off this road over here, he can apparently get a vantage point on the fire that is really valuable to make sense of where they need to go next. So, like strategically, if I just go down this road, I can grab this ATV, take a look, come back, and we can make a decision. So his team, they're relatively safe. They stay in this, like, field waiting to see what's going to happen.

Mike's like, this will be super quick. And so he hops on the ATV and he takes off into this forest and it's like a logging road or not a logging road. It's an access road. But it's very densely forested on either side. And so he's burning down this trail. It's broad daylight. He's not thinking about anything other than this fire. But he said that he started hearing these screeching sounds coming from out in the woods, like really distinct screeching sounds.

And I think he was a hunter. The impression I got was he was a guy who spent a lot of time in the wild because he was like it wasn't like an animal that you would hear out on the trail. This was something different. And to the point where he stopped on his ATV to just listen. And he's got places to go and he's stopping to listen to this thing. But he couldn't hear anything. And so he's driving along. He's driving along. And then he sees, what is it? I think it's a cougar, a mountain lion. That's what it was. So he ends up seeing a mountain lion. And mountain lions apparently make a really bizarre screeching noise. I think it's a mountain lion. I think I'm like 99% sure it's a mountain lion. But they sound like women's

screaming. Okay. There you go. Okay. Perfect. then this is the right animal. So he sees this cougar, this mountain lion. It comes bolting up onto this branch that's sitting over the trail he's on. It's pretty high up, but it's a branch that's just overhanging. And it's this mountain lion, and it's perched, and it's staring right at Mike. As he stopped looking around for it, he sees this thing. He's like, oh, fuck.

Like, that's kind of gnarly. I'm in the middle of nowhere. This mountain lion's staring at me, but he knew he can just blaze right through it. He's on his ATV. It is what it is. So he stares at this thing. He's fairly convinced that has to be the sounds I was hearing, although he couldn't really tell if there was more than one.

He drives underneath the screech, the mountain line, and the mountain line doesn't do anything. It turns around and watches him, but Mike carries on down the trail. And then he eventually reaches where he can tell the trail is bending too far in the wrong direction. It's not going to put him in the position where he can get a good look at this fire or the smoke

or whatever he needed. He could just tell, this was a good idea, but I'm pretty much going to have to turn around and go back. But right at that point, he notices that off the road on the other side, like tucked away in the woods, is this cabin. And this is protected land. There shouldn't have been anything built out here

that wasn't official park land. And so it just seemed odd that there looked to be a cabin that somebody was living in. This didn't look like a facilities building. And so he thinks that's weird enough that he stops and he gets off and he goes over to just tell

if there's somebody in there like, hey, there's a fire, you've got to get out of here. So he walks up to this cabin, which is, again, it's right in the middle of a pretty thick forest. And he sees that right away, it looks like it's in bad, bad repair. Like it's badly beaten up on the outside.

It's got glass windows that are intact. But the door, which is like this old, heavy door, has a fresh padlock on it. And the padlock's been snapped. Like, it looks like someone had, like, screwed on a brand new, like, with the islet and cover thing, plus a padlock. And the lock is either on the ground or it snapped, but it looked like it had been forced open. But the door is still shut. And he's like, that's weird. All of this is weird.

He's thinking, maybe somebody, like, had to break the lock to go, inside to make sure like nobody was in here like what's going on he goes up to the window and he looks inside and he sees that there's like you know clearly like furniture and there's like chairs there's no one in there but it looks lived in someone's definitely living here it's not a facilities building and he's like man that's that's that's that's fucking weird like this whole thing is just weird to me but he's like you know no big deal i just gotta go back like this it just doesn't concern me so he hops back on his ATV he's stopping quite a bit he's spent a lot of time wasting a lot of here and he goes back

up the trail and he starts hearing that screeching sound again but he knows like it's probably that fucking mountain line he turns the corner and as he's driving expecting to look up and see the mountain line probably still on the branch she sees that there is something on the branch but it's not a mountain lion it's a woman a woman

who is perched on the branch who was looking at him and she's vocalizing the sound that he's been hearing she's like screeching into the air Native Native American like it looked indigenous yeah look something like that and so he he sees her and he's so scared because he's like, what the fuck is this?

That he just blazes right underneath it. And like she turns around and she's watching him from the branch, almost like she's an animal on the branch. And he drives off, he reconnects with his team. And they ended up actually not even going in the fight the fire. They had landed in such a bad spot. They were pulled out. So that story in and of itself, creepy. But the dude, his team, they had to stay in that area because they had to go back out like the next day to actually go try to quell this fire.

And so he goes to a local tavern, this guy, Mike. And he's just like, he's got this crazy story about it was a fucking weirdo out in the middle of the cabin, the screeching lady. And he sits down next to this guy, a local, and he starts talking about this fire. And he doesn't bring up the lady. He just has this story in his mind. And at some point, Mike talks to this guy, how he's a firefighter and that the area they were in in the forest was over here. We need to go over here. And the guy's like, oh, you were over in whatever the name of it is, that section of the park.

And he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was the wrong spot. The fire was over here. So we got to go tomorrow over here. And he's like, oh, have you heard the story of like what's out there? And he's like, what do you mean? And he's like, oh, yeah, apparently there's this, there's a cabin out there. And there's apparently a skinwalker, which is like this old native folklore thing about this woman who can shape shift who lives in the cabin out there. And everyone says you don't go out to that part of the forest because there's a skin walker out there.

But that's probably bullshit. You know what I mean? And Mike was like, holy shit. I think I saw a skinwalker. See, Mark will believe these things. I believe it's Native American. Sure. And I believe they're capable of being animals or whatever.

Wait, what? That's... What do you mean? Like spirit animals? Yeah. Like, they can be whatever their name is. Like screeching ladies. Screeching lady.

Cougar foot or whatever their things are. So I believe they're capable of doing that sort of shape-shifting. Yeah. Probably should have done that a few hundred years ago. Yep. Maybe should have shapeshifted into a gun or something. That would have been helpful. But now that we're here, you know, you shapeshipped into a cougar, whatever, and you scare the people away.

That's right. Who knows what the screeching was? Could have been a rain dance. Yeah. That's how you get rid of the fire. That's the angle no one's considering. That's actually super small. What happened to the fire, guys?

It didn't seem that the fire was a priority in that story. Yeah. It really felt like it was down the list. So many times. And heavy rainfall came immediately after and put the fire out. Immediately after. Protected the cabin. Let her cook.

Damn. Let her cook. Now, you believe in skinwalkers. Well, hold on. Hold on. I don't know if I believe in skinwalkers. But I believe... Is there anything you don't believe in?

The true story about 9-11? But that's not here or there, okay? That's not here or there. I'm talking about, like, demons might be out there and might be doing some fishy stuff. Maybe. I've never seen one, but there's people be talking about it. I believe in demons. Right?

Why not, dude? What about, like, the Ammons haunting? Latoya Ammons? You know about that one. No. I mean, this one's corroborated by a nurse and a doctor. Stop smiling like that. This is serious, scary stuff.

Okay, go, go. Where is this? I think it's in Indiana. Okay. Or, like, Illinois, maybe out near Chicago. I mean, I can pull up all this. Is this the one? Let's see a storytelling.

I don't want to spoil it. Is this like that the house that is, like, very famous for what happened in there in Indiana, that, like, some crazy stuff was actually corroborated to have happened in that house? That's why it's weird to me, dude. It became a movie. It became a movie. Deliverance. Oh.

Squeal like a pig. Not deliverance. Deliverance. 2024 American Supernatural horror film. It came on in 20204. No, that's not a supernatural horror film. Wrong delivery. Different deliverance.

The deliverance we're thinking about is the Appalachian Mountains. Not that one. Not that's the deal. The guitar riffs immediately. Yeah, that's the one. So this is 2011. Latoya Ammons is living in a house with three kids. They're describing polter gas activity.

Okay. They get a priest over there. They got all these people who go over there and start like trying to exercise these demons. Yeah. And they're getting like weird stuff. Door knobs are shaking, hearing creaking, typical kind of ghost activity. Well, could it be the baby daddy?

Maybe he goes. Why would you assume baby daddy based off the story in the names? Just saying it's possible, right? All these things are possible. Her name's Latoya Ammons, and you're assuming a lot and inferencing a lot about who she is. I thought she was native. I thought she was native. We don't know anything about her background or socioeconomic status or

race. Probably a great, great-granddaughter of Samuel. Samuel Adams. Maybe. Yeah, that's where I was going. I said Ammons, but I like weird heads out. All right. That works. Okay. All right, go on. And the reason why it's weird to me is that according to the story, I'd see, you already have this unbelievable habit. What do you want me to do? I just bend this belief and just kind of just feel like, demons are real. Okay. You should do a Ouija board. Okay. I wouldn't do.

Oh, why not? Because I'm superstitious. How is that different than demons? It's very different. It's the same. No, because it's like it could happen. That's how I feel. I don't feel that way about demons.

It could. If you do a Ouija board right now, what happens? Bad luck exists. Demons, I don't know if that exists. You've seen bad luck before. You've seen someone miss a field goal that it should hit. Yeah, fair, but actually caused by demons. It could be demonic.

If demons are related, maybe, I just don't even understand what a demon is. It's too conceptual for me. Anyway, tell your story about Latoya, Amos, and her three children, and the ghost. According to the story, the nurse that was there reported two child protective services. So they get moved to the hospital because they think that maybe the kids are having like epileptic episodes. There's some type of like material type of medical cause that's causing these children to act and behave strangely. Because doctors and nurses and even child protective services are going to the house and the kids are like growling, their eyes are rolling back on their head. behaving very strangely.

It would seem like demonic possession. So they get moved to a hospital. At the hospital. This is where? This is in Illinois. No, there's in Indiana. This is in India. United States of America.

Recently, first war country. The doctor that's there and the nurse, both independently report that the child, in their words, I could find the New York Post article, climbed up the wall, did a flip, and then they had to restrain the child.

And they reported this to the police. medical personnel that are not necessarily stitious. Asian? What are you talking about? I see you guys on the fucking six train do this all the time. Showtime. Showtime. Backflip on the subway.

This is a very normal occurrence. Okay. And they corroborate the story. They eventually move out of the house, and then the haunting stops, and then the house gets demolished. To this day, the nurse and the doctor still maintain the story

that the child did something that was inexplicable and supernatural, such as climbing up the wall. What was the reason? Who knows? Maybe they're athletic. Maybe they did a little flip. We don't know the whole story, but all I'm saying is it could be demonic. Who knows? I don't know if it is. You don't know either. That's what you were the point.

But if you were a demon, like, that's what you would make a kid do? Well, you have to, you're commanded by the spiritual domain. Yeah, but what I'm saying is as a demon, the worst thing that you can make a kid do is a backflip off of a wall? I don't know what demons are up to. They're instilling fear, and then they're feeding off the fear. Yeah, but wouldn't you make them like me, you know, sew together clothing at sneakers. It was like a kickflip. Yeah.

There's also that potential. What I'm saying is there's way better things that you can make a kid do. Demons aren't concerned with capitalism, dude. All right, guys, this is a break for a second. When your friend gets cheated on and upgrades immediately after the breakup, do you know what that is? That's a power move. Just like hiring Morgan and Morgan, that's a power move.

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too. That's QI NCE.com slash flagrant. Let's get back to the show. Visit betmgm casino and check out the newest exclusive. The price is right fortune pick. BetMGM and GameSense remind you to

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You could be the ones you've told, ones you've heard. I was asking like, what's one that you've recorded that after you record it, you go home and you go, I wish I didn't have it in my brain right now. I covered a story actually about 9-11 which obviously I've seen all the documentaries

I have my feelings about it as well but like what are your feelings I'm not getting into it well I'll say this I'll say that that was a huge proponent

of why I wanted to join the military so played a massive outsized role in my life and then I found when I came home from Afghanistan not immediately but years later I'm like Hmm.

Things don't feel that connected anymore. So, but neither here nor there. The reason that story stuck with me is I actually didn't really expect, I didn't really expect the 9-11 story. It's something that's been so prevalent. It was all over the news. We watched it in real time. There's been so many documentaries. It's talked about relentlessly.

And that's great. But it's like, it's not something that would be necessarily shocking. But there was this one guy who now. I feel bad that I don't remember his name, but there's only one story I covered like this where I broke from the model that I had been using. This is like back in 2022 where basically the only stories I would tell were if I could find like reliable source material and I don't need to talk to the people involved. Great if I can, but I can just do the research on my own because I need to turn this around

in like a day. Yeah. And so really just from the space of doing it quickly, but I read this guy's POV in a magazine from having been in, I think, the North Tower. And he survived, obviously. But it was one of the most just gripping and devastating accounts of the attack, because it wasn't really about the actual attack. It was about what were people doing inside of the building.

And I read it, and then I spoke to him, and I got more context, and he's not someone that did interviews. This is a singular time that he'd been pushed to tell the story. he has this part where he describes what it was like to see people jumping. He had made it down to the lobby before the tower collapsed, and he's looking out at the other tower. And I'm probably getting the details a little bit wrong, but he was there as impact people are hitting the ground.

And the way he described it was not like the gruesomeness of it. He talked about, I looked up and I, like he described seeing people in their last moments. They're falling to their death. And there are these people, these mothers and fathers who have like went to work that day. And like it's just a normal day for them. And now they're leaping to their death in their final act. It's like this one woman as she's falling, she's pushing her skirt down as she's tumbling towards the ground. And he just said it was like people are, they were put in the most impossible situation.

And to just see them making that choice and watching them end their lives over and over and over again. He was like, it haunts him, you know, to this day. And so I think that like when I told the story, a lot of it was about his perspective of watching people jump to their deaths. And when you think about people ending their lives, a lot of times it feels like it's over there. It's some story. But this felt like intimate. And it felt like something we all, you know, for better or worse, experienced because we were, I certainly was alive for 9-11. And I watched that stuff on TV.

And it was like you're seeing a side of it. That's the really human side. And I think about like somebody who just goes to work, drop their kids off at daycare, goes to work and then that day your choices either burn to death or jump out to your death. And then your last moment you're holding your skirt down before you die. It's just like really striking. Yeah. The little details are the most disturbing in a way. Brutal. I weirdly feel the same way when I read about Pompeii. I've not read much about Pompeii. My bro, by the way, I saw people jump out. Really? Yeah. He was down there at his school. He was like a middle

school or something like that. Then like he went to like call the family because you're, you know, everybody gets to go to the pay phone. I guess the pay phone was like, near, you know, window or the entry to school or whatever, but like, yeah. Holy shit, dude. Crazy. Damn. Crazy. The loudest snack ever, by the way.

Yeah, I know. I was thinking they would mute my mic. It's the loudest. Jimmy's telling the saddest story ever. I got some ear bleach or whatever. Just wait. I'm starving, dude. I had an overnight oath.

But they can just mute my mic. What do you doing with these cords over here? I need to charge. I'm sorry. Also, they have to him with Michael Wright. If I'm not mistaken. Michael Wright. Oh, is he okay?

I mean, he's okay in the sense that he lived. No, that was his name. Michael Wright? Yes. Did you look that up? I did, yeah. Yeah, that's Michael Wright. You should read his perspective is crazy.

The article he did is crazy. But I have a clickie that is way better on it. Is that disrespectful? Yes. To the victims of 9-11 to be crudged. on popcorners and our guest no dude eat away man

this is we're buying the fucking bonfire this is it this is chill dude honestly it's probably weird to tell these epic stories without the crunch

of a gram cracker with a chew of a munchmello I'm trying to supplement that right now with some popcorn Describe the most horrific day of modern American I'm Donald

you don't think people are eating during 9-11 I mean they stop what's long Those are guys selling falafel and celebrating that morning. Okay, no, that's racist. No, that's, it probably wasn't celebrating. He was fucking furious about it.

9-11 is a couple days away, bro. I know. This comes, wait, again? I wouldn't stop it out. Wait, what the hell? Listen, we were there, if you were there and you endured it, you got to eat whatever you want to tell them to the stories. If you're not from there, yeah, obviously, you know,

treated with a little bit of respect, but like, if you were there and you endured it, We endured it. Yeah, it gives you eating rights. The loudest snack. What about a soft snack? What about just a marshmallow? You can do a marshmallow.

Then they win. Then the terrorists win. Because why do that hit us? Because of our freedom. Free to be. Well, I'm not free to have a popcorn? I'm not free to devour a pop corner while you tell these stories of gravity. It's like a popcorn's a hatch.

The crunch you can hear. Don't listen to it. Don't eat it as a sad story. No, just mute my mic. unless I'm chewing. They need to turn that bitch as high as it goes. That popcorn is commercial of you at a funeral and someone's giving a eulogy and you just hear

good for every occasion. That's a great commercial. All right, right, so go, go, go. Absolutely. Yeah, we have a good, good, easy, nice one. Yeah, so there's this one. Hold on. Yeah, yeah.

We don't know what nice? This one, this one doesn't feel nice, though. It ends up having a really startling in surprising end. Okay. Do you need special effects? Crunching sound point you. I'm here for it.

So this. I like dark and fucked up. Yeah, this feels like that. You'll see the direction it goes is not that, but it feels that way the whole time. You'll see. It's a good one. So there's this lady Ellie Lobel who in the 90s,

she's like this high-powered attorney. She lives in Connecticut with her husband and two kids. And she's just like living the American dream, right? She's making good money. She's like moving up in her firm. Where is she? What part of this? Connecticut.

I don't know what part of Connecticut. Connecticut. Connecticut. So she's a big health enthusiast in addition to working a bunch. She's a big health enthusiast. And one day after her run, she comes home and she just feels a little bit off. She's a little sick. She ends up like going to work as is the next couple of days.

But over the next couple of days, you just can't shake this malaise that's come over her. That she kind of attributes to when she went on this run. And so she ends up going to the doctor, and the doctor's like, oh, you know, you're overworked. You just got to take some time off. You know, there's nothing wrong with you. You just got to rest. And she's like, I don't know. Like, I definitely feel physically ill.

I don't feel overworked, but it's so bad. I already took the last couple of days and didn't really work much. I'll just take the week off. So she takes the rest of the week off. And her symptoms don't really get worse, but they don't get better. And she just, she just doesn't feel good. And so she is, again, like a very high-powered lawyer, like she doesn't want to take more time off. She also feels a little bit embarrassed that her symptoms are not so pronounced that it's easy to point to what's wrong with her

It's like yeah, I just don't feel good and so she like goes back to work after a week, but she's just like fumbling around at work She can't focus and she's being told by her boss like hey You know go take a little more time. You're doing fine here. You're in good standing and so she takes more time off She goes to see more doctors and really no one's giving her any like concrete sort of diagnosis It's all like well, you know maybe when you went on the run you overdid it and attacks your citizens And whatever. It's all this stuff around like, you just need to rest. That's what everyone's saying.

Tick bite. Yeah, like, what did you say? Tick bite. You never know, dude. So she's like totally fucked up and she can't seem to like figure out what's wrong. No doctor has been able to give her anything. And months go on and it just never really gets better. And she ultimately has to take time away from work for so long that she ends up doing, I guess, a furlough or whatever.

She ends up like leaving her firm. and at the same time for her kids and her husband, it became sort of awkward for them because no one really believed outside of the family that there was something seriously wrong with her. It just sort of seemed like she was faking it to a degree. Which, you know, that's just the way people felt. And so everyone's, like, awkward about it

and she's, like, taking time off. And then her and her husband actually get into a really big fight about it and they get divorced over this spat they're having. They were already struggling. So they get divorced. And then, like, the kids who are, like, They sort of side the dad, not aggressively, but they're like, come on, mom, you get your shit together. And so before long, like, Ellie's living alone.

She's not working anymore. She's still a lawyer, but she's not practicing. And, like, her whole life is sort of falling apart all around her. But her reaction is, well, I still feel horrible all the time. I really just need to solve this problem. I've got to figure out what's wrong with me. And so she, you know, goes to all these specialists. And again, still, no matter who she goes to, no one give her anything.

And for years, it just persists. She just, her life just gets worse and worse and worse over time. And the symptoms never get horrible, but they're always there. She's always like, you know, lethargic and sore. And so she basically loses her whole life. Her life has just gone down the tubes. And, you know, her kids, it's sort of, they're sort of estranged from her at this point. And her husband's moved on.

And she's, she's single. And at about, I think it was like the 15 year mark from when this all began, she began going into much more serious symptoms or symptoms that she has. assumed were the same one she's had, like they got worse, this mystery illness she had. And she began showing signs of organ failure. Like she, and she was going to the doctor and they are like, we don't really know. This does seem pretty serious now. Still don't know what it is.

And they told her, like, we don't know what to tell you, but you're showing signs that you could be shutting down here. Unfortunately, you're in your 50s, but unfortunately, that's the end. That's going to be the end for you. And they gave her all these options for basically palliative care or hospice care, because at this point they didn't even know how to treat her. Wow. And, you know, it's like she's devastated, but in a way she actually was so bitter about the way

her life had gone that she was actually sort of relieved at the prospect of fuck this, like, I'll just die. I'm done. So over the coming days, you know, she decides I'm actually going to lean into this, like, end of life position I'm taking. And so she doesn't tell her husband or her kids, she just up and moves to this house in Southern California because that was like her favorite place in the world and she'd not gotten back for years.

She goes to this house and she rents it out and she hires an end of life care person whose job is to be with you when you die. So take care of your affairs and she gives them the instructions of like, I'm just going to go to this house. She's very frail at this point. She needs help moving around and I'm just going to die there and I want you to just allow me to die. And so they're like, okay, they go to the house and she literally gets to the house and

climbs into bed and just waits to die. And she's like laying in bed, you know, waiting to die. And for three days, she lays there, you know, it wasn't clear if she was this close to death. But it felt like she was close. And she doesn't die. For three days, she just doesn't die. And at that point, she's like, well, I'm going to take a break from active dying. I'm going to, I'm going to go out and take a quick walk. You know, and she tells her care person to come with her and go for a quick walk. And then I'll come back and I'll die. So out the door they go and it's a beautiful day. And they're walking very slowly because he has a support. quarter and they're walking down this road and on the right side there's this wooden fence and this beautiful field full of flowers and it's just like gorgeous beautiful day and Ellie is so struck by the

beauty of this field and just like the flowers she stops and she's like I'm going to just look at the field for a minute and take it in you know and so she's just looking at the field and the care person's next to her and at some point Ellie hears a buzzing sound above her head and she looks up and she sees there's a bee over her head which is you know you're near flowers it's not that weird But the bee was pretty big, but Ellie's like, okay, whatever, goes back to looking at the field. And then a second later, she hears like a much louder buzzing sound and she looks up and she sees it's a swarm of what would actually be these African killer bees, which are like the really nasty ones. And almost like for no reason, they just swoop down and they start stinging Ellie Lobel predominantly on her face over and over and over. And she falls to the ground.

She's getting attacked by these bees. And the care person just turns and runs. She a little bit overweight? She was like riddled with this mystery illness and couldn't reasonably run. She sort of like collapses to the ground. And so the care person, he bolts. And so she's getting stung. But then the care person, he realizes this is like an ethical dilemma.

I'm the end of life care person, but this seems pretty fucked up. So he comes back and he scoops her up and he's running with her now to get her back to the house. and she's telling him through all these bee stings now. She's like, don't take me to the hospital. Let me die. Put me back in bed. And so he rushes her in the house. He puts her in the bed.

And she's just like, well, at least now I'll die faster. I'll have an allergic reaction to this. And she's laying in the bed with a puffed up face from getting stung all these times. And for the next few days, she doesn't die. She actually starts to get better. Not hugely better, but a little better. And she is not thinking, oh, it's a miracle. I'm magically cured.

she's like, what is going on here? Like that, if nothing else, should have shocked my system and likely put it into overdrive. I probably killed me. You know, why didn't it? And so she starts doing research. And she discovers there was this really obscure study that was done in Australia in the 90s. And it was about the effects of Lyme disease. Hicks, Lyme disease.

And they had concluded that very likely certain bee venom could cure Lyme disease, but it was unethical to run the trial. So they never actually stung somebody. with end-stage Lyme disease to see if it would cure them. And so Ellie Loebel accidentally conducted the study on herself. It worked, fully cured, made a complete recovery, and now Ellie Loebel tours the country advocating for bee stings for Lyme disease patients. Whoa. Didn't Lyme disease get...

She got bit by a tick on a run. That wasn't already apparent. But the tick, like Lyme disease is even manufactured, right? Isn't that like a lab leak? That's the story. It's kind of conspiratorial. I don't know. We're getting a conspiracy land.

But it comes from like Lyme, Connecticut or whatever. I actually have no idea where it comes from. All I know is Ticks can give it to you. Yeah, but it's like, I mean, the conspiracy is that the CIA is developing away, you know, some sort of bioweapon. No, shit. But it's interesting that it, this, she gets bitten in Connecticut. Oh. Weird.

Yeah. Because isn't Lyme, Connecticut? Yeah. That's weird. That's weird, actually. Yeah. It's all connecting. That's why.

So now do they do this as therapy? I believe that she is one of the main reasons that that is now an act. That's a treatment plan. You can get stung by bees if you have Lyme disease. Whoa. And so she doesn't just tour the country advocating. She like gives speeches about it.

Whoa. Yeah, I got to put my sister on this. Ellie Lobel, dude. She's cool. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. That's why I was like, I was hearing some of the symptoms. Like, yeah.

Yeah, she's a line. Yeah, dude, check it out. Ellie Lobel. She's like famous in the line. Lyme disease world. Okay, okay, one more banger. I know we've gone on for a while, but this has been very interesting. A banger and then we go. I got one. I don't know if it's a

banger, but it's a good one. It's a demon-centric. It's quite good. If nothing else, it's a fucking weird story. Okay. So there's this dude, actually before I do, let me think there's a better one to tell. Because I have a few that I stand. Well, you can go, we can go more than one. Like, but we need a, but we need a... I get a quick one.

A quick one, and then we'll do the demon. Free throw a line. There was this, there was this cave out in South Africa called the Sturkfonteen Cave. It's an underwater, it's an underground cave, but what was noteworthy about it is there was this huge underground lake within this cave. So imagine, I think you really come up to this hole in the ground, this nondescript hole in the ground that looks like a manhole, and you go down into it, and probably people are going to chew me out for being wrong about this, but you basically go underground and it opens up to this, like, huge, like, lake. And there's separation from the

surface of the lake to the underside of, I guess, like the ground, the floor, whatever. But it's like you're looking out at almost like an indoor swimming pool. That makes sense. It's huge. And I believe they put lights down there because it's really fake. You look it up, Stirk-Fonteen Cave, S-T-E-R-K-F-O-N-T-E-I-N-T-E-I-N-S-E-N-S-A-N-W in South Africa. Whoa, this looks crazy. Let me see that. Let me see that. Okay. All right. So Stirk-Fon-T-C-Cave. This is back. I think it was in the 80s or 90s.

So there's South Africa. South Africa. Right there. That's a good one. That's a good way to look at it. So they call the inside of this cave Swiss cheese because underwater and also so you can do two types of caving in this cave. There's wet caving and dry caving.

Wet is just cave diving, scuba gear, go underwater, search the caves or just walking around and splunk in other parts of it. Anyways, it's very popular and there were these three guys, Peter Verhousel and then his two buddies that came to start Fontaine Cave, I think in like the 80s or 90s. I think it was whatever. Either way, to go wet caving, to go cave diving. And this was something that they did on a fairly regular occasion. They're the crazy dudes that would like go in these crazy underground way. Yeah, crazy. Just retarded these. And so this one in particular, it was called Swiss cheese because as you went down, there was like sort of a main cavity that went straight down in the water

and there was a guideline that was anchored to the, I think the ceiling that went straight down. you could always hold it and get back up. But as you go down, there's all these holes, like everywhere, that could branch off into like miles long tunnels that hadn't been explored, or they dead ended like six feet away. You didn't know. And so the allure of Sturke-Fontine Cave for Cave Divers is, if you wanted to, you could leave the guideline and go explore uncharted territory in the water.

And now, not that I've done any cave diving, but having covered quite a few cave-diving stories, it's sort of a known thing that you never let go of the guideline you actually will clip yourself onto the guideline if you because have you had any scuba diving in like not a pool like silt gets kicked up see you can't see it it ain't going away anytime you can't even tell which one's up you can't do a flashlight nothing you're like really space to figure out yes so it's really to protect you in those types of environments there's a famous picture actually in florida if you want to look it up there's like do underwater cave florida warning sign

because it's one of the most intense images when you put it in context. You go down to the bottom of this underwater cave. This is devil's den. The devil's den, is that what it is? I've seen this. And there's a picture that's underwater right now that is a real warning sign

telling you not to like death will follow if you go past this point. This is a true sign right now underwater that's actually for cave divers when they get down to this point. I've seen the sign. In real life? You've gone to this thing?

No shit. This is underwater? Yeah. So you were snowed. Dude, that's intense. Scooby diving in Devil's Den. You've been in Devil's Den. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, it's just like a popular scuba diving spot. But we did this for scuba diving certification in college. Holy cow. And we went there and it's like freezing cold and you go to the bottom and they tell you like you can't use your fins at the bottom. Because if you use your fins, you kick up all the silt. And then not only do you fuck it up for you, but there's other people. So now like for the next hour, like you can't go down lowered to a certain point.

Dude, I can't believe you've seen that. Yeah, yeah. That's such a famous sign. It's crazy. So yeah, it's a very. intense thing. White people shit. No, because I'm white, and I think they deserve what they get.

So these three, they show up to Sturke-Fontine Cave, and they go in, they put on their equipment, and they go down. And Peter was known amongst his two other buddies as being a guy that would periodically leave a guideline and go rogue on their dives. And it was really frustrating for the other two, because they would have to be like, come on, dude, stop, like you're putting us all in danger. And so they're going down, and twice they saw him begin to veer off, and they looked at literally grabbed him and pulled him back.

Like, stop fucking leaving the guideline. Don't do it. And then finally, when they got fairly deep into the cave where, you know, you're relying entirely on artificial light, they turned and Peter's gone. And they didn't see him leave the guideline. And so he's just gone. They considered doing, you know, some sort of search for him. But they're like, can't really do that.

It's too many different places he could go. So they waited for a little bit, but they're watching their gauge. They're running out of air. And they're like, I guess we'll just surface and hope that he figures it out, right? I would hope he would. Learn his lesson, dude. I would leave him so fast. It's unbelievable.

They go to the surface. What an asshole did I even tap you on your fin and be like, hey, I'm going over here? Because now you're putting me in danger for your selfish exploration. It is pretty bold to do that. You're kind of fucking everybody in a big way. It's like being on Columbus's ship. We're going, I'm sorry, where? Yeah, that's bold.

It's a bold move by Columbus. But the guys on the ship don't know, right? They think they're just going out, fishing for whatever they're fishing for. And he's like, no, we're going to India. And they're like, what is that? We don't know. We don't know. Anyway, continue.

So he leaves the guideline. They go to the surface. He doesn't come up. And so they get in touch with authorities. It takes forever for them to get out there. They only have so much air. They know he only has so much air. And so the police finally show up and it's like, you know, there's no.

way he could be alive at this point. So ultimately they leave the cave. The rescue diver does go down and does a cursory check, but they're like, look, it's too dangerous to just be looking for him. If we're going to really recover his body, we need to really plan this out and come back with a bigger team. So the decision is like, let's just leave and we'll come back and recover his body later. You know, you play stupid games, wins stupid prizes. So they leave. The friends are devastated. You know, they don't give up hope that maybe he'll turn up. But like, you know, at this point, it's done. A few weeks later, there is a group of dry cavers who are in Sturkfonteen Cave. The lake section of this point has been shut down, but there's all these other areas within the cave that

are just first blunkers, regular dry cavers. And they're making their way down into the earth. And at some point, they're navigating this narrow section, and either because they pushed on it or their body pushed against it, but the wall in front of them crumbles, just like collapses in front of them and it reveals this passageway underground. There's a tunnel right in front of them that was only exposed because this wall came down and they shine their light and they see there's what appeared to be footprints on the ground that are like going around the corner and like this tunnel sort of trails off. It goes somewhere.

And so they're like, oh my God, like what is this? Like how who could be down here? And so they take their light and they walk through the crushed wall and they go down this tunnel and they turn the corner and it opens up. up to this like you know cavern if you will and there's water in the middle of it like another underground lake if you will and the middle of the lake is what appears to be like a mini island like six feet across by six feet it's a little jut of of land and there's someone on the land and it's peter vera hustle and they go over and he's he's dead uh but the water in that room connected

to the main diving area that it was unexplored and no one had been been in here before he had gotten lost, dove up into this air pocket, came out of the water, was perfectly fine, and then documented while he was in the room that he was alive and well and waiting for rescue and knew his friends would come get him and he was there for two weeks. He was found like two and two weeks in a couple of days right after he had died. Damn. Yeah. That is awful.

Pitch black. Yeah, pitch black. Yeah, pitch black. Whoa. That's a brutal way to go. Yeah. There was, you hear the, there's a super short one, but it's a better one in terms of the ending. There was a ship off the coast to Africa.

This is like in 2000, and you've probably heard this one. So the ship off the coast to Africa, fishing vessel, there's 12 people on board. What the hell is the guys? He's a Nigerian guy. There's a rogue wave or rough waters. Either way, the ship capsizes. Okay. And the bedrooms in this ship were all locked.

Oh yeah, this is unbelievable. It's unbelievable. Sinks to the bottom, 11 of the guys die in their bedrooms. One guy survives. They sink and he's caught in this air pocket in the ship 100 feet down. And for 60 hours, he stayed in this pitch black. 60 hours. 60, zero hours.

And he's alive. And body recovery divers went into the ship to go pull the 12 bodies out and they filmed it. And why would you think someone's alive down there? Imagine how fucking terrifying that is for the. the recovery divers. They're filming, and they're swimming up, and this is what they say. He's alive.

Okay, keep in there. I mean, way too calm. Yeah, way too calm. Way too calm. And then they got to get him out. Yeah. Which is interesting because now he's pressurized for... Yes.

He's... Is he pressurized for depth or is he pressured? No, he's pressurized for depth. Even though the bubble was at the surface? He's been breathing. Oh, actually, you know what? I don't know. I think you're, I think you could be right on that.

Because the bubble is that depth. Yes. Yeah, I think you're right. Now, he's been breathing out carbon monoxide or whatever into this air. So his air quality is super low. But I imagine he's still pressurized for the surface, right? Yeah. But he fucking lived.

And he, I don't know if this is sort of something that I don't know where I got this from, but I believe this happened. So, but take this as could be total bullshit out under the story. there was a report somewhere or I saw something that while he was down there it's like quiet right because there's no noise pollution you're in this bubble 100 feet down the bottom

of the Atlantic Ocean but he could hear the sound of large fish bumping into the walls as they were eating the other 11 people and so he was waiting to either be eaten or the bubble to collapse and kill him U.S.S. Indianapolis

Oh God the shark attacks yeah it's like the same similar like eerie I mean, go, go, go, go, go. Just terrible. I mean, similar to this, the, have you heard the stories of the catacombs in Paris? Yeah, yeah, I covered one of those stories out there, yeah. Really? Yeah.

Well, the one that I heard, they told us this when we were there. But, like, around the time of, like, I think, like, 1700s, when they really starts to, like, set up all the bones and, like, the actual, like, the actual, like, art pieces that you see, they had people going around, I think in, like, the mid to, like, late 1800s, maybe even later. And they're going through one of the sections that's kind of, like, cordoned off where no one can go in. And they go in, and they go in, and they find,

bones, which is not uncommon, obviously, in the catacombs, but the bones are laying completely parallel with the rest of the path. And there's, like, fabric on the bones. Oh, weird. And it's a full skeleton, not just, like, femurs and skulls. And they're like, what is this? And they discovered that it was someone that was keeping, like, the maintaining it when they were originally building it, they got lost.

Oh, God. And got trapped in the catacombs, and then eventually just died of starvation. and was left there and his body was never found for like 150 years. Yikes. And he just died in the darkness of the catacombs. That's such a horrible thing. Crazy.

There's this story that, I mean, they made a documentary about it, which is like absolutely unbelievable, but about Chris Lemons. Have you heard of him? No. He's a saturation diver. Oh, I watched it. Holy shit, that story's crazy.

Holy shit, dude. Yeah, he got, he detached from the thing and he's like wandering around the fucking ocean. So there's this thing's called saturation divers, right? And basically what they do is they do, like mechanical repairs. Like underwater welding. Underwater welding for like gas lines, etc.

They're like extracting like the North Sea. They're like extracting oil, whatever. And what they do is like they bring them to depth while they're on the ship. And then you stay in these like chambers that like adjust your depth for like 30 days at a time or something like that. And so you're basically on. sea level, but they're adjusting so that you're at the whatever the, I don't know what is, is it

the oxygen level? Is it the pressurization? It's the pressureization of being deep in the sea. Doesn't matter. And then when they go down and they do the welding, there's an umbilical cord. Yep. That provides them their warmth, everything that they could possibly need, and they can be down there for an hour, whatever it is, and they come back up

and then they exist within this chamber. And you're doing it off of a ship, and the ship is using these different things to maintain its balance, I guess, like in the water. And as the waves start to do it, and there's all these different thrusters on the ship that are maintaining its course, because God forbid it's started to move away, and then the divers get, you know, pulled and whatever. Something happens with the waves where it can't maintain its course, and his abilco cord gets severed. So now he has five minutes of oxygen or whatever the fuck it is. And he has, like, another partner that I think is in the boat at the time or something.

And he's dead. I mean, that's basically what people think. He's absolutely dead. I'm trying to think about how to tell the story because they tell him a really compelling way. His partner goes down and just starts to look for him. Yeah. Right?

And five minutes goes by, ten minutes go by, a twenty minutes. I think like 30 minutes goes by, right? So he's no oxygen, nothing. Apparently what he managed to do was in Pitch Black, work his way back towards what they were working on and then just kind of like sit on it. And because of the cold, they said that like it reduced,

I'm going to completely butcher this. That's pretty good. But it put his body in some sort of like catonic state or like, you know, you can like kind of like freeze something and like it will maintain this livelihood, I guess. I don't know what it did. But his partner finds him.

They bring him back to the surface and he ends up fucking living. 30 minutes without oxygen. It's crazy. Whoa. Like, you've got to watch a documentary. It's an amazing documentary. He went diving three weeks later.

He went back in. But, like, you're looking at someone that shouldn't be alive. It's creepy. Like, you shouldn't be alive because of a grenade. That guy shouldn't be... Like, there are people who have had, like, explosions happen to them and live.

We don't know anybody that's been dead for 30 minutes. That's up there. That's wild. The North Sea in general is, like, a vicious place. Terrified. Yeah. Like the oil rigs out of it.

there. Holy shit. That is one of the gnarliest water bodies. I don't think people appreciate it. That's one of the most treacherous spots in the whole world. Yeah. And then he would go back three weeks later. Yeah, these people love it though.

You know what I mean? This guy won't go back to Afghanistan. You know what I'm saying? Have you ever had a supernatural experience happen to you or something that's inexplicable? I sort of did. It would take me an hour to tell it, you know, so probably a little too long for this. But I had a, I had something happened to me when I was 16. And I went up to this cabin in New Hampshire,

I was the snowboarding cabin with some friends. And going into the trip, one of my friends of the two buddies I was with, his father had very recently passed away. And it sort of cast a pall over the whole trip. And when we got up there, the first night I was laying in bed and I heard somebody come into the cabin

and I'm like laying in bed and I hear footsteps through the cabin. And I thought it was a relative who we were expecting to show up to the cabin. but this thing comes in the room and it was like this dark silhouette that I looked sort of human but it definitely didn't look like a person and it sort of bowed into the bed that was next to mine where Nick the son of the deceased father was and he disappeared into the ground and I'm like a 16 year old kid I'm like what the fuck is going on like I think I'm dreaming I don't know what this is

but the next morning when I got up I was like I fell asleep at some point after that I go into the kitchen and Nick's mom is out there and I'm like shaking up for from this whole experience, because I've discovered now that the relative didn't come last night, like, what the fuck happened? And I began asking her questions, like, hey, did your older son? Did he come by last night?

And she just lost her husband, you know? And she just looks at me and she doesn't say anything. And I'm like, I could have sworn I heard something last night. And she's like, oh, don't worry, that was my husband. I heard him here last night too. And I was like, oh, great. And I like fucked me up and I didn't want to talk to her about it because I'm like, that can't be real.

Maybe she misheard what I was saying. You know, maybe, maybe this is wrong. And so I tell the other Nick and Wolf, that's my other buddy, and they're like, oh, that's fucking crazy, dude. But that's probably nothing. We go out, we snowboard for the day. We come back. I try to go to bed super early. And I tell my buddy's like, let me fall asleep ahead of you so I can be like asleep for the night, you know.

And they were like, fine. But then I couldn't fall asleep. That same night, the second night I'm out there. Same time, like three in the morning. I'm like wide awake. And I had like stashed a knife in the springs of the bunk bed above me. like to protect myself. And I, again, we're expecting this relative, the older brother, to come by.

So if anybody shows up, I'm telling myself that's who it could be. I hear footsteps out on the wraparound porch. I hear the door open. I hear a pot fall in the kitchen. It's like clearly someone's coming into the cabin. We're in the middle of fucking nowhere in New Hampshire. And then I hear the footsteps come through the house. I hear them come down to our door again.

I'm so scared. I can't even move. Like the idea I'm going to like fetch my knife and like protect myself. It's hilarious. And again, the door opens. dark, shadowy figure comes in and stops next to me and sort of bows into the ground again and disappears. And you know, you're not like, oh, good.

Last night, the ghost vanished into the ground. It's happened again. I'm safe. You're more like, where did it go? Like, people don't do that. And so again, I'm like up all night. Eventually in the morning, I hear the sound of Nick's mom out in the kitchen. And this time I go out there.

And the day before, I was a little cautious about how I brought up the subject of did some weird should happen because she just lost her dad or her husband. I didn't want to even talk about ghosts. although she sort of brought it up on her own. And then this time I'm like frantic. And I'm like, I heard someone last night. Like what is going on? And she's like, don't worry.

I heard him again. Like it's just my husband. He's walking around the house. And I'm like, what the fuck is going on here? I'm like so scared. I thought that I would like call my parents and just have him come get me. But we got one more night left out here. I'm like, there's no way this is actually happening.

This whole thing feels like a fucking fever dream or something. And I ended up convincing myself mostly out of embarrassment. I don't want to call my parents, be like, hey, you know that trip that I love doing every year? Come get me 24 hours early because ghosts are wandering the cabin, right? So I'm like, I'll stay one more night. That day, we went out and got a coffee table and we helped load it into the car for the cabin, and we dropped it off at the cabin, and then we went out to the mountain for the day. Come back, and it's our last night.

I can't wait to just get up and be done, and that's probably the fucking ghost pretty there. And again, I can't sleep. 3 a.m. rolls around. I hear footsteps again, door open, pot falls again. I'm like, oh my God, it's happening again. But this time the footsteps, they don't come down the hallway in my room. They continue through the cabin and they end up walking up the stairs to the second floor. And then they stop. And I'm actually thinking, oh, fuck, like, that's right above me. It's going to, like, bow into the floor and, like, come through the ceiling. And so I'm laying there so scared. I eventually do fall asleep. I barely stop the past two nights. And I wake up

at some point at like 5 a.m. And I hear Nick's mom out in the kitchen. And I just want to get the fuck out of here. Like it's like it's the end. I don't want to do this. And I go out there and I'm ready to be like mad. I don't even know what feelings I had. I was just so exhausted.

And I hear that she's crying. And I go out there and she's standing over at the foot of the stairs that leads to the second floor. And the new coffee table we had got the day before was sitting at the base of the stairs. It was like a wood, wood, nice coffee table. And I look at her and she's crying. And I thought, like, what the fuck's going on? And I could tell she was crying, like, happy and happy tears. And she's pointing at the table.

And she's like, I'm over here and look at this. And I walk over to the table and scratched into the table were the words, I love you. And she was like, I didn't write that. And so my interpretation is either the guardian, who I love and respect, has picked up on my nightmare I'm having and has turned it into a cope for you losing your husband. and are acting out that your husband's ghost is traveling around the house at night, and you're going so far as to scratch stuff into tables to fuck with me. Or goes surreal. I don't know.

You saw the thing in the coffee table? Yeah. And it actually ruined my relationship with my friends. It was like, I don't want to be anywhere near this. I don't want to talk about it. I'm 16. It wasn't like I had an adult perspective. I was like, I don't even know what to do with this.

I told my parents about it when I came home didn't believe me in the slightest No one believed it They're like Oh really It's like dude Ask asked her mom Ask his mom

She's she'll say she saw it And you tell Wolf Your snowboarding buddy Yeah dude he was there And he all saw it And he looks at it and what does he say He's like Oh that's fuck

He's like so chillies man It's crazy dude That's fucking crazy dude And then Nick The handwriting match I mean it was like crude It was like it definitely looked fresh. Someone did it, for sure. For sure, someone did that. But like, the only, if I really

dig into it, the only issue I have, well, there's several, but one is like, okay, let's pretend that she's clearly in mourning, you know, she's lost her husband. This cabin was very special to him. He built the place, I think. And every time we went to that cabin, every winter, he would come with us. So it was, like, really felt that he wasn't there. And so, I guess it's a place that's associated with him. In fact, we kind of still went on the trip so close to his death. I think it was like to honor him or something. That's sort of how it felt. But I definitely knew that like, okay, she's obviously in grief.

She's not even really processing it yet because this is so recent. Like it makes sense to me. And even if she wasn't doing it maliciously, it makes sense that maybe she's so desperate to like believe her husband somehow still around that maybe she picked up that I had had a nightmare and like was able to construct this narrative that like allowed her to believe. her husband was there. Fine. The problem with that is on the morning that I came out the first time, I didn't want to be offensive and say, hey, I heard footsteps in the cabin last night. Do you know what that was? Because invariably, it lends itself to talking about ghosts and you just lost your

husband. It just felt really inappropriate to even breach the subject. So I said, hey, did your older son ever come by last night? Did they ever come by? Like, that's it. I didn't tell you, Boy, you wouldn't believe the nightmare I had last night. It was like a fairly innocuous question. And also, we were expecting him the night before. That's a normal question to ask. How could you go from that to, oh, I heard my husband here last night too. Was Wolf in the room with you?

They all, yeah, Nick and Wolf was in the bunk above me and Nick was in the bed right next to the bed. Okay. So it makes sense that the dad is visiting that room. Yeah. If we are to believe that's his, that's him. It sort of tracks. but the other I have tried to in no way did that experience lead me to this it's just sort of coincidental that I tell stories that fall into this camp and I have a story that sort of resides

in the strange dark and mysterious never have I had anything before or after and even this I'm relatively sure there's got to be some play here with like grief dynamics but the problem is there's just enough in terms of like corroborating something odd happening in the house. Namely, I didn't tell you about really the specifics of what I heard or saw. I just asked, had your older son come through and your reaction was, don't worry, I heard my husband here last night too. That's a very quick, devious reaction, if that's what that was. Yeah. You know? And then also, like, my skeptical thought is like, okay, she's walking around the house. She's in grief. Doing stuff. Who knows? Drop stuff. Maybe it's part of a ritual.

Maybe it's a sleepwalking thing. Again, like, she's in, like, a bizarre kind of, like, period of her life and then is playing out this thing again to kind of like cope with the fact that she had this loss but the issue is that you saw the door open yeah and i saw a dark figure yeah that's granted i've told myself that it's like i was so scared because i was actually thinking if it's just an intruder forget ghost forget anything lay in your bed and hear a fucking door open and wait for a stranger to walk into your room not a good feeling yeah and so i can totally believe that my mental state so intensely, like fearful. I'm a 16-year-old kid. It's a pitch black room, and I'm seeing the space between the bed. My feet are closest to the bed. The door's like here. It opens inward, and you'd

walk by the foot of my bunk bed. I'm in the bottom bunk. I can only see like this much space as whoever walks into the room. And then there's a little gap on the right side of me between the bed where Nick, the deceased, his son, is sleeping in me. And so there's just this little space here. And even a person, if they walked next to me, I'm laying in the bed. but the bunk above me obscures my view. So I can't really see the head of someone who was walking right here. And so, like, my view is obscured, but I can infer the size of someone based on the, if you walked next to the bed and all I saw was like your hips, I could probably infer roughly how tall you are. And so I picked up that someone who was really fucking tall was in the room and they were so dark that even in a dark room that only the only illumination was the little alarm clock, little red alarm clock,

I could clearly break out a very human-like silhouette of a very tall person. I would say Nick's father was quite tall, not through the roof fall, but he was like at least 6-2-6-3. So I'm like, okay, maybe that adds to it. And the door didn't open on the way out. It wasn't like the mom coming in to like give her kid like a kiss on the forehead dealing with grief and then leave it. No, even if it was her, she didn't leave the room.

You know what I mean? Like someone came in. Just went into the bed. Bowed. Like bowed. That's how it would describe it. and then they were gone. And if it happened one night, you're like, oh, I must have been imagining it because it was a dream.

It played out identically the second night. And then the third night, the change was it didn't come in the room. It went upstairs. And lo and behold, the next day, she's calling out the scratching. And I also think it's like, okay, before I go out there on the third day and I'm going out there, how could you know that my experience had changed the night before? because the first two nights it came into my room. If she had scrawled that into the table, it wouldn't have matched my interpretation of what happened

because the first two nights, whatever it is, didn't go over to that part of the house, the cabin. It just came down the hallway and vanished into the bed. When would it have gone to the other side of the cabin? So if she's guessing, like her grief coping mechanism, that's a bold guess because I walked out and you didn't even give me a chance to say,

oh my gosh, guess what? Last night, this is a detail I've never thought, I didn't tell you, oh boy, last night it changed. They went over there. Oh, check it out. Look over here. That was the, she told me that. What did Nick say?

Like, did he have any dreams or any types of weird experiences? Nick was very stoic, is very stoic. Like one of the more stoic dudes I know, he really wouldn't even engage with it. I looked at it as like, I'm not going to push you to talk about it. But me and Wolf talked a lot about this and he was very freaked out about it. But like in that way that he's not going to do anything. It's like, oh, wow, that's crazy. crazy. Who names one of their kids

Nick and the other Wolf. Wolf was his nickname. He was actually named Nick as well. And they weren't brothers. They were his friends. Got it. Yeah. So I ended up telling you basically the bastardized version of that story. Fuck. Weird, man. That's crazy. I fully believe it, bro. Yeah, it's crazy, man.

Would you have been able to tell if it was a person you think? Like, did it have sort of like an opaque sort of a... It was no. I think it was a demon? I don't know, dude. Think it was a ghost? I don't know if it was. Something that we know about. I don't know, man. I will say that like even though I professionally tell stories in this domain, I've never

had anything even remotely close to that, save for one time that I actually told a story that went pretty viral on Instagram. And I think this was just sleepwalking. So that's another thing that I should tell you is I have really pronounced sleepwalking, like deeply problematic sleepwalking. I sleep in a different room than my wife with alarm. on my doors because I literally get up and run out of my house. And like it's a, it's a very, it's an extremely bad version.

Now I don't believe it's. Well, the thing is, is like, I've told myself, well, that's all it is. It's, I was sleepwalking. That's all it is. It still doesn't comport with the way she behaved and the things she called out. That is true. So, like, I want it to be sleepwalking. Yeah, I can still.

You run out of your house? Yeah. I've jumped downstairs. and hurt myself. Like, and you'd think they're like, oh, well, clearly, you know, PTSD, but no, this is pre-in military.

Do women ever sleepwalk? I think it's a fugue state thing. You just, you know, right? Like, isn't it? It's only men who are married with kids who are like, I just ran out of my head. I was gone for a week, dude. Give you one story of a woman who sleepwalks

is never once, right? No, no, it's just dudes. It's just us. We need a little bit of, of a break. That's all it is. Oh, yeah, it is. I think it's just fugue state. Yeah. But I the other day, not the other day,

this is like last summer. I, uh, so when I sleepwalk, it's, I know exactly how you guys sleepwalk at all now as adults at all. No, but I know a bunch of dudes that sleepwalk. Okay, yeah. So it's it's a. It's just easier than saying, hey, babe, can I go hang

out with my friends? Not sleepwalking. It's so much easier. It's so much easier, right? But I typically will sleepwalk one time a night. And once I sleepwalk the one time, I won't do it again. It's almost like you get it out of the way. Get it out of the way. You hit the fugue.

Right to the strip club. You go right to spirit. Exactly. And then you're good after that. Then you're good. You're reset. You come back. You don't got to deal with it again. And so I had this experience where I'm sleeping in my bed and I hit the fugue.

I wake up. I'm a little sleepwalky. But I have these weird moments where I don't necessarily bolt from the room. Sometimes I just like open my eyes and I can't I cannot figure out like not where I am, but I know like there's something wrong. Like my mental state is not correct and I'm like sort of aware of sleepwalks. I sleepwalk so much. I can identify like oh, just just lay here. Don't do anything.

Just wait. It'll pass. I just point out one thing. Yeah. Early in this podcast, you said the best sleep you ever had in your life was in Afghanistan. I didn't sleepwalk. your wife was 10,000 miles. I was in a pretty solid view.

I'm just putting this out. The best sleep you've ever had in your life was with a bunch of your brothers in Afghanistan. You could play video games all night if you want. You could do whatever you want. I'm just pointing out this information. Continue. Continue. I wake up and my dog was sleeping in the bed on the covers next to me.

Yeah. And I sort of wake up and I'm like, all right, I'm just. sleepwalking, okay, fine. And there's a bathroom sort of like in the corner of my room. And in my sleepwalking state, I know I'm asleep, I know I am. I kind of like, look and I can swear I see someone standing in the bathroom that sort of vanishes out of view. Doesn't freak me out. Because honestly, when I'm sleepwalking, very typical to like think there's people around the corner and I just, it goes away. You realize what it is and it's not that big of a deal. But it like, I took note of the fact that, oh, that's weird. Someone was like in the bathroom,

but like, you're sleepwalking. And I'm like, I see Maggie is my dog. She's just still laying there. She'd react if there was a fucking person in the room. I'm like, okay, it's been like 30 seconds here. I sort of realized, okay, I'm good. Just doing my little nightly sleepwalking thing. It's not even sleepwalking.

It's not even sleep-confusion. And now it's passed and I'm like, okay, I'm good. I'll just go back to sleep. And at that point, and I also look at the time, this typically happens in the first 60 minutes I go to sleep. I'll have my event. So I'm like, all right, no big deal. So I go back to sleep.

Then I wake up again. And I know that it's not morning. It's like something's off again. I feel like I'm sleepwalking, but it's so rare to sleepwalk twice in a night for me that this one felt like it could be real. And I open my eyes and I sit up in bed and it's like two in the morning or something. And I immediately look over at the bathroom. Because I'm remembering that I had seen someone in the bathroom and there's no one there.

And I'm like, few. Like, okay, I'm hypervigilant or something. And then I start to notice that there is a, there's a pillow. that I put under the sheets next to me. That sort of bunkers me from rolling over in my flailing, sleepwalking state from hitting my dog. She sleeps in there a lot. And I feel the pillow is like pushing against my leg, like a little bit. Like just imagine if someone on the other side of the pillow is like nudging the pillow.

And I'm sort of looking at the bathroom, but I'm sort of subconsciously aware of this pillow moving at my leg. And I had just in my mind thought, oh, Maggie is moving around on the bed. She's pushing the pillow because she's moving. And then I just like look at Maggie and Maggie is far away from the pillow and like completely still, not moving at all. And then I look at the bed and remember I could easily be sleepwalking. I imagine things. I see something moving under the covers near my bed and I completely like freak the fuck out. I jump out of bed.

At this point, this is a long sleepwalk. Normally it's like 15 seconds maybe and it just goes away. I'm well into 15, 20, 30 seconds now. Jump into bed. I flip on the lights and I rip my fucking covers back and there's nothing there. And I have a shit ton of cats. I got six cats. And I'm thinking a cat must have gotten in the bed.

And like there's really not much in my room in part because I sleepwalk and I want trip over stuff. There's not much like hide in my room. There's like a desk. There's nothing under the bed. And so I flip the lights on and I look under the bed. I'm like looking around the room. And I'm like, I'm not sleepwalking. Like I, this is weird that I just felt that and saw that.

There's no cat in my room. And Maggie's like on edge now. And so finally, I'm like, I'm still a little freaked out by it. I go in the bathroom. I check in there, no one there. And I come back over to the bed. And I'm like, man, like, I don't feel good about this. But I'm going to go to bed because I'm convincing myself that it's odd I've had two episodes,

but I'm convinced it's sleepwalking. But I'm like, one more time, I'm just going to look in the fucking bed and make sure nothing's in the bed. So the lights are on. And the bed, when I'd flip the covers off, it only like half folded over. There was like a chunk of the bed that was still covered by the shit. sheets and as I'm going to grab the sheet I see something move like imagine a cat like under the sheets moving you would see like a lump moving the sheets I convinced myself in the light I'm awake now for over probably a minute or two I see something moving under the sheets towards the foot of the

bed and I rip the covers off and for a second I am convinced I see eyes looking back at me that go down the back side of the bed and I'm like it's a fucking cat there's a cat in my bed and I fucking throw the covers off and I'm looking all around no cat dude so that's it that's the whole story that's sort of how it was but I'm convinced to couldn't sleepwalking but I will say that that fucked with me

and I told that and people thought that was pretty crazy I'm gonna say sleep paralysis I mean almost certainly I wanted to be that yeah no it doesn't feel like much more than that but it was very very felt very real though I'll say that that fucking demon cat in my bed felt very real what a horrifying experience did you go to sleep after that

no I slept I was up for a while while and then I slept in the couch so I just didn't want to be in there. Then I began to think fuck like I've never even thought like what if there's like a spider in my bed? I began to like think that there was like creatures in my bed. I was like I can't be in there somewhere else yeah. You went to war. Do you get that's a big problem here. All right well listen John you're the man. Thank you so much for indulging us for all this time. These are absolutely amazing stories. We didn't even start. We didn't even talk about your

graphic novel. book. Where is the book? I actually didn't even bring it here. You signed it. We need someone to bring in the book. Yeah, there's a book. There's a book that I have. There's a graphic novel that you are releasing. It's called The Terror Within. And it's coming out October 6th. So we have done two graphic novels so far. There are a compendium of nine stories that honestly there are a lot like the stories I'm telling now. There it is. Thank you. So this is the terror within. Here you go. It's amazing. The other two were near at times. Best sellers. You can pick it up and very easy to flip through it. And their stories like the ones you've told. Yeah. Basically what you heard on this podcast, those types of stories put to visual format in a book. Oh, this is awesome. I mean, the goal really was to like try to mimic like the art of what I'm doing on camera. But like we were going to do a narrative book. But like just text on a page.

No, the pictures are fantastic. Oh, wow. That's awesome. So yeah, it comes out October 6th. You can look it up. anywhere. It's on Amazon, you name it. It's called The Terror Within, and there's two other graphic novels. They're all great, huge fan. Make sure you check out. There you go. Mr. Ballin's YouTube, his podcast.

I mean, you're putting out like four stories a week sometimes. Yeah, four uploads every week. Unbelievable. Would you get Mr. Balling from? Yeah, it's so random, dude. When I was doing the Navy SEAL posting and like I'm Mr. Navy SEAL drawing the negative attention, the username that I just happened to have was John B. Allen 416, just the one I had forever.

But because I was doing a lot of posting about being a Navy SEAL, even though I got a lot of negative attention, there was quite a few aspiring Navy SEALs, kids who wanted to be SEALs, and they wanted information about the pipeline, and what was this like? And they would send me these messages on Instagram where all they see is my username, and there's no dots in it. It just looks like John Ballin-416. And out of an abundance of being very kind and polite, they'd say, dear Mr. Ballant, I have a question about that da da da da and so when i made my account on ticot i'd sort of needed a new name you know

i was like i fucking mr ballin got it doesn't have anything to do with what i do and it's sort of a stupid name relative to what i do yeah yeah it's like a basketball channel that went a different direction um well listen dude you're the man thank you so much brother we really appreciate you thank you dude thank you thank you real canadian superstore has everything you need this back-to-school season save on lunchbox savers like ziggies sliced deli me products for always 375 and get life brand pure Vita shampoo or conditioner for $8 each. At Real Canadian Superstore, when you're ready, we're ready with a whole world and more. Where some see heroes and others see egos. Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes.

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