Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh - Russ Reveals Evil Secrets of Music Industry, How Artists FAKE Streams, & Problem with Drug Culture

Episode Date: February 7, 2024

Yerrrrrr, Russ came through to hang with the Flagrant crew and talk about how major musician labels are faking streams, what race he REALLY is, his new favorite place to travel and how he's handling his success. All that and much much more on this week's Flagrant episode. INDULGE 00:00 Intro 00:52 Russ responsible for standup clips 02:11 Boardroom Performances 05:07 Labels tricking streams + cost for a no. 1 10:17 Relationship between labels & streaming platforms 12:04 Audit your label 16:37 By pointing the finger, people question you 20:35 Major artists not selling tickets 24:04 Being independent + “Advance” economics 35:27 Worth of 1m streams & Drake's catalogue 43:27 Perception of Residencies + Soft tickets 46:42 Labels aren't happy with Russ 48:35 Radio's role, Stadiums + Ed Sheeran performance 52:54 Smallest crowd + delusional self-belief 55:02 Learning to make a good show 57:39 Feeling pressure + disassociating on stage 1:01:50 Pyramids, banned songs & Kuwait shows 1:07:12 Everyone's human + Japan is odd 1:09:03 Russ in India + racially ambiguous benefits 1:15:30 Fairly Odd Asians? Memories of Japan 1:23:20 Visiting Marrakech, Switzerland + Santorini 1:30:11 Using money to change realities 1:36:26 What excites Russ now? + Living by other's standards 1:39:55 Impact of therapy + discomfort is necessary 1:47:27 Gauging how much to reveal 1:49:41 Ego v self-mastery + process of achieving that 1:59:35 Billboard's rules took sales away 2:02:09 "I love you boy" was progress for Russ 2:04:53 Russ' thoughts on Mos Def v Drake 2:08:57 White people's fascination of black trauma 2:12:58 Faking dangerous lifestyles is evil 2:17:15 The only time Russ lied in raps 2:17:55 Real impact of faking v society's own accountability 2:42:44 Rick Rubin's true impact = taste 2:54:17 Kanye has TASTE 2:57:46 Good music forgives everything + Ye repeats without thinking 3:02:53 Using more empathy 3:04:20 Japan owns everything 3:07:12 J Prince's power + everyone understands violence 3:13:42 Creating next star + what is counter-culture? 3:21:37 Labels need Hip-Hop to succeed 3:25:26 Russ leaving Columbia + ebbs and flow of music industry 3:31:59 What is an industry plant? Benefits from insecurity 3:39:32 Success doesn't make you immune + sensitivity = super power 3:47:30 Where is Russ in 20 years?

Why do the labels make the artists do those boardroom performances? Here's how those go. Who's the most faked? Of course you're gonna lose the art because people aren't doing it for the art anymore, they're doing it for the bag. This is not me speculating. This is me talking to like, top five most streamed artists in the world. And them talking to CEOs and CEOs admitting. And me on the phone with like, the dude who fakes the stream. Nicky spoke on Future saying when I talked to Future, he told me he wasn't even doing

the drugs that he talks about. I think Future's music is amazing, but I also know that the reason why I wanted to try lean when I was 19 was Future. We have seen it live in the flesh. Juice WRLD said, I did drugs because of you. Juice WRLD died of a drug overdose by following somebody who does not even do the drugs that they said they did. It's y'all's fault for believing it.

No, no, no, no, no. Start a chapter one. Why are you perpetuating something you're not doing? Bro, when this goes out, I'm getting flanked. What's up, everybody? Welcome to Flagrant. Now, listen, if you hate seeing stand-up clips all over the internet, we have brought the man that's responsible for that on the podcast today.

Give it up for Russ, everybody. I've given you your flowers for this, so you know the story, and I talk about this quite often. But retell it. We haven't. There's never enough flowers. But no, I remember watching an interview with you

and you saying that you were putting out a song a week, and at that point in my life, I was like, man, I'm not working hard enough. This guy's putting a whole fucking song out a week. You've got to write the music for it. You've got to write the lyrics. You've got to do it. And I could put a joke out a week.

And I started doing that. I started getting success. And I tried to tell as many comedians as possible about it. And now there's stand-up all over the internet. So you deserve credit for that. So we just want to say thank you for putting us on to the hustle. And there's a lot of things I want to talk to you about. I'm very excited to finally have you on the pod.

A lot of music industry stuff. A lot of personal stuff in your music. Yeah. But before that, I need you to explain to us something. Okay. Why is it, because you're uniquely positioned in the music world where I don't feel like you're really indebted to anybody

but the fans, so you can kind of talk shit about the labels. Right. And then you can talk shit about the artists. Right. Right, and the artists that are indebted to the labels can't say shit, and the people that work at the labels, and then you could talk shit about the artists, and the artists that are indebted to the labels can't say shit, and the people that work at the labels can't say shit,

but you can. Why do the labels make the artists do those boardroom performances? I don't think the crazy thing is, I don't think they make them do the performances. Here's how those go. Please explain this. The reality is like you,

when you get signed to a label or you're trying to get signed to a label, they'll, in a way to sort of like show you how much like artillery we have and how much we fuck with you. They bring the whole team. We got, we got every, we have digital in here. We have radio.

Like they bring the whole staff, right? And they sit them around this long table. Yeah, this is crazy. And they play. This is my favorite clip. Bobby wanted that label. My favorite clip. Here's the thing.

They play your music. So it's like, I've done that meeting. But like a sane individual, I sat at the table. You didn't get up at any point? And we just listened to the music. So now some people want to stand on the table and go nuts which is like that's their prerogative that's what's up but to me yeah i mean it's like those people aren't like they're not there to fuck with you really yeah

so like doing all that is not going to make the deal better so you can just sit in that level of awkwardness like if somebody played my stand-up for me i don't know if i'd be confident enough to perform it for them but like i'd be be like, can we not sit here for this? Back then for me, it's like I was just I mean, what was I, 23 when I partnered. So it's like I was in a different headspace of like so so like beyond arrogant, you know, like just so gung-ho on my shit that I was like, fuck yeah, y'all should be playing my shit. Fuck.

You know what I mean? So, yeah, I mean, I definitely never like stood on the table. That never crossed my mind. When I saw that,

I was just like, what are y'all doing? Like, it also is just like, bro, like these people don't care like that. Like,

so you're standing on the table it's almost like that's not gonna make them like go harder for you. You know what I it's almost like that's not gonna make them like go harder for you you know what i mean like it's not yeah they got a house their kids at private this is a job and it's also musical chairs in the business it's like that person you're like doing all that performing and all that like trying to get them on your side or whatever you're trying to do they could be gone next week yeah they don't give a fuck there's like conspiracy people be like

oh this is like a humiliation ritual to check them that is a choice the truth is always a personal choice that these people are making the truth is always way more boring that's what I realized I'd rather almost believe it was a humiliation I don't believe it

Russ is dancing on that that video coming out. And there's a video of you doing it. We just haven't seen it. We need all the dirt. Obviously, I want to talk about Santiago. I want to talk about the new single coming out. And I was telling you before we did the pod, it was truly beautiful.

Go listen to the album because I think it took a lot of emotional work to get there. I want to save a time where we can have a long-form discussion about that. But, again, unique experience you're here, and I want to know the dirt. Yeah. Okay? How are these labels fucking artists with the streams? I don't know how they're doing it, but it feels like they're doing it. Yeah.

And how are they tricking us? Because I see these people that go crazy. Album goes number one, but then they can't fill up a show. Right. So the math is not math. Right. Right. Yeah, I mean, that's what it is.

Explain it. I mean, so it's one of those things that everyone in the industry knows is going on. Which is? Faking the streams. It's a real thing. So the label buys the streams from Spotify? So here's the deal. When you talk to these people,

because I've talked to these people, because I've been like, what is this? How are y'all doing this? They never disclose the mechanics of how they actually fake the streams. There's rumors of streaming farms or we're delving out fucking computers

in third world countries and hacking the back end to make it look like it's an IP from the US. Whatever. It's nutty shit. But the reality is the labels are spending money and devil's advocate, they're treating it like a marketing expense.

Because in a sense, it almost is. You're going to spend $100,000 on billboards. You're going to spend $100,000 on streams. The streams are going to put you in a playlist. You almost is you're gonna spend a hundred grand on billboards. You can spend a hundred grand on streams, right? What's the dreams is gonna put you in a playlist? You're gonna spend real money to get fake streams that equate to real money Hmm, so that's why they think it makes sense because it's like okay. The streams are fake, but the money's real So what do we care especially they're not doing it with like Up-and-coming artists who like you wouldn't

believe it you know they're doing it with people like where it's okay if you're let's say your song has 500 million streams right organically but let's say with fake streams now you're at 900 million no one's gonna sit there and be like this is more like a 500 million streams yeah yeah they're just gonna be like this is a big song. Makes sense it has 900 million. Honestly, so smart. Yeah, they're not doing it to the dude across the street and giving him a billion streams.

They're doing it to people who really can get half a billion. But let's just pump it to get 900. Now you're getting number one. Now you're getting number one. So you can pay for a number one. Oh, yeah. What? What does a number one cost?

I mean, that's crazy to even think about that i mean what is the number one song in america cost look the reality is this you do have to have a real fan base to a certain extent right you have to have people who are really consuming the music and your song has to actually be moving around organically once it's that then they'll push the button on it. And it just depends, like it's a campaign. It could be like, it's like a 12 week campaign and it might be 60 grand, 70 grand, whatever it is. That's it. And it's, oh yeah.

To have the number one song on Spotify. And that 70 grand, the ROI is crazy because that 70 grand might bring you back 200, 300. Yeah, and even just seeing the song number one, you're more likely to check it out. Now, how so? Right, because people are cheap. And it's just, and even just seeing the song number one, you're more likely to check it out. Right, because people are cheap. Yeah, if you see something successful. Labels are like, all CEOs at labels are obsessed with market share.

Like, who has the market share? Sony has 25%. Market share means the amount of streamed songs at that moment. Right. Total streams, how many percent? Yeah, right. And there's like bonuses that are associated with it. amount of streamed yeah like who's songs right at that moment right and who total streams how many percent yeah yeah yeah right and there's like bonuses that are associated oh because that's their incentive structure if you're number one right you're gonna get the trickle down so they're gonna try to boost right now you maybe you can't quantify it but you said you can't do with any

song you can take it from number 10 to number one or or you got to be like three. And then I mean, look, Spotify even just put out this statement that said, um, anything over what was it? 80% and 90%. Yeah. Yeah. Anything over 90. Like in a call out.

So you could be 89% right. Streams. But that's what that's saying. But over. Yeah. It's like, that's, that was Spotify's way of saying,

we know what's going on. We're okay with it. We're profiting off it. It just can't. Of course, because somebody doing a billion streams on your platform is a good look for your platform. Yes, yes, yes. Because you're bragging about the amount of streams on your platform. Think about where Apple Music loses to Spotify. One, they don't show the streams.

Two, when it came out last year that there was only one song that has a billion streams on there. It just doesn't look as sexy as Spotify. And I feel like as a consumer, oh, nobody's listening to Apple Music. Spotify must be better. I don't know shit. I'm just going to go with the bigger one. So the big streams help the artist and the platform. Oh, yeah.

And the label. So everyone wins. That's why no one's going to say anything. Think about it. If you're invested in Spotify, if your money is in Spotify shares, you want to know that it's getting the most streams and it's beating Apple by X amount. And the labels are invested. That's the craziest shit. I remember when I was with Columbia, and Columbia, you know, there was a point in time where, like, they sold their shares of Spotify or whatever the fuck. But everyone on the label, just depending on how many streams you were doing, you got a check.

I got a crazy check from Columbia selling their shares of Spotify. Yeah. Huh? Why did you get that crazy check? Because I was doing a lot of streams on Spotify. You get your share of the stream money. Right, right. So this is crazy.

Billy Corgan was on Rogan talking about this. Did you see that episode? No. Where he was like, and again, I don't know how factual this is, but this is what he said. see that episode where he was like and i again i don't know how factual this is but this is what he said he's like the labels took equity pieces in the streaming platforms and then gave the stream the streamer sweetheart deals on the artist music so basically we're going to charge you less yeah for the artist music which means the artist gets less, but we are personally going to take equity positions

in those companies. So give me a little bit of Spotify, I'm going to give you this artist's music for little, but when your brand builds, because it needs us to build, I get that, but you know who doesn't get that? The artist. The artist. Which is crazy. But it's like the artist

uses all of that for leverage to go get sponsorships and it's all like fame uses all of that for leverage to go get sponsorships. And it's all like fame driven. Yeah, yeah. It's all like the streams might be fake, but me being perceived as a massive artist. Make money on the road. It's real. So now I'm getting this, now I'm getting that.

And I'm monetizing it with this brand or with this sponsorship, whatever it is. So it's like it's all just a fucking finesse. And it's all a scam and there's some artists that are like i'm just gonna live off of my deal right they're like i don't even care if i make enough money to pay back right the company or the label whatever it is they're gonna give me my advance that's what i make yeah right and well and and it's so funny when artists are like i haven't seen a check since I got signed. It's like, because you're not making money. What are you so confused about? Yeah.

It's like you didn't make the money back. As opposed to artists don't know. Oh, yeah. I think I don't think any of the artists know that their streams are being faked. Wow. No, but that's and here's the thing. Here's the thing. That's heartbreaking.

Nah. But here's the thing. That's why. First of all i encourage every artist audit your label make sure there's an audit clause like i'm auditing you know who i was with and um a lot of money being found yeah yeah yeah because the reality is like you don't know there's a lot of things that are just hidden in those statements in the marketing expenses and the reason why like it's the, if you're assigned to a major label,

it's so easy to just deny everything because there's a buffer. There's a label. The label's the middleman between the fake streams and you. So if it comes out that so-and-so is faking their streams, you can just play dumb.

Be like, I had no idea. The label must have did it. Yeah, I didn't know what the label was spending their money on. And when i have a hit song that has a billion streams i'm not gonna go are we sure it's look this is not me like speculating right this is me talking to like top five most streamed artists in the world and them talking to ceos and ceos admitting and me on the phone with like managers of massive artists and on the phone with the dude who fakes the stream

and them saying what's going on. Dude, you know what I just told you? I'm not sitting here like, This is not conspiratorial. This is how it works. I really think people are faking. And once you know, it's really easy to tell which songs are being faked.

Who's the most faked? No, I can't say that. Come on. Listen, I'm not going to, we were talking on Brilliant Idiots and Charlamagneagne said it was a Drake song that came out. It was a Drake and SZA song. SZA, yeah. And he was like, it went number one one week, and the next week it just fell off.

Right, right, right. And he was like, listen, those are the types of things where you go, are these songs being pumped up by the label? things where you go, are these songs being pumped up by the label? Because I think Doja Cat's song, Painted Town Red, had been in that top five for weeks. That, you're not going to keep faking streams for real.

I'm not saying that she was doing that. But you would fake streams for months? I'm just saying, this is the thing. Think of the perception you just had of Doja Cat. It has to be a song. But there's going to be diminishing returns if you keep having to spend $100,000 every month, no? Well, it's not $100,000 every month.

Because it's really just spending enough money to hack the algorithm. So 6ix9ine was right. Is that what you're trying to say? What was he saying? Depends on what he said. Right about what? Fair enough. No, he said something about they took his number one by buying streams for some artists

yeah i mean like the reality is they're not gonna do it and it doesn't make sense to do it with something that's not already a moving train got it when it's already a moving train the public won't know the difference yeah you know what i'm saying like if it's a song that genuinely has half a billion streams if we juice it and now it has 900 million, like I said, you're not going to sit there and be like, no, I don't believe it has 900 million. Because it's massive, organically. So Donda and, what was it, Certified Loverboy, when we were all really fixated on who was going to be number one. Yeah. Whoever was number one, theoretically, they could have just paid and be like.

For sure. For sure. And it almost makes me sorry. But it's like the labels are looking. It's a business. They're looking at it like we're protecting our investment, one. Yeah. And we're trying to obtain as much of the market share as possible.

Yeah. And they also know this is just like a psychology thing. It's like fake commotion ends up creating real commotion you know what i'm saying like if i'm just over here making a spectacle and it's a fake spectacle the fake spectacle attracts real eyes and now the real eyes are over here like what is that spectacle and now i have real people to the den off of fake commotion yeah so here's a question because we we i we all see academics as posts about who who sells what in the first week or whatever. I think it was French Montana had like a really bad first week.

Is that French Montana standing on his own honor and being like, I refuse to play into this, buy any streams? Or do you think the label might be like, I'm assuming it's with a label, would be like, you know, we're kind of done with you. And this is you're going to have an embarrassingly low number because it's the real number, whereas everybody else getting inflated. But your shit is going to sit low low i don't know what his situation well i know like french is my guy and actually like helped him get the deal that he has i think french is great yeah i think he's but it's like yeah either you know sometimes maybe it's not just so transparent where they're like hey do you want to fix your streams or not you know what i mean yeah or it's like it's not a moving train so we're not gonna push the button on it because it's not a moving train so we're not gonna push the button on it because it's not a moving train yeah yeah if the if the album came out with some heat then they could put

the put it like this right put it like this full transparency now I also know and I've said this in interviews before like this is the thing I'm like worried about is like me pointing the finger and calling shit out all that's gonna happen is no, no, you're faking your stream. You know what I'm saying? You know so much. Right. Like, how do you know? And you were on the phone, nine, you know what?

Who even listens to Russ? You're faking your stream. But- Now that you got people coming out to shows. I think that's the difference maker right there. Real bodies. But I will say this before transparency. Like, this is the truth. 315 is a song I have that I put out, I don't know, two years ago, three years ago.

And right now it's doing, I don't know, 500,000 streams a day on Spotify. There was a time where it was doing 800 and 900,000. Right. And the threshold to go into today's top hits is like they want to see you getting like 1.1. Right. And that's like once you're in today's top hits. Oh, boy. Right. So we got on the phone because I was like 1.1 right and that's like once you're in today's top hits oh boy right so we got

on the phone because i was like milan i hit my manager i was like milan see what this guy like because i've like low-key i'm like planning like a fucking vice documentary i'm like i'm like milan hit this guy like what is the process of this shit? But it's like, so he talks to him, and he's like, look, you know. You've got to fake his voice. This is the perfect song to do it because it's crushing organically. Nobody's going to know the difference between 200,000 streams. 315 organically was the number. Before TikTok and Billboard did the thing where there was a Billboard chart for TikTok songs,

315 was the number one song on TikTok in the world. You know what I mean? Organically, before TikTok and Billboard did the thing where there was a Billboard chart for TikTok songs, 315 was the number one song on TikTok in the world. You know what I mean? Organically. So once again, if I was to boost that, what is anyone going to say? No, I hear it everywhere on TikTok, so it kind of checks out. Makes sense. And we talked to the dude, or Milan talked to him, and told us, you know, it's like an 8 to 12 week campaign. You spend $35,000, $40,000, and like, that's like an eight to 12 week campaign. You spend 35,

40 grand and like, that's it. And then it's out of here. And now guess what? Now it goes from, once again, it goes from 800,000 organic streams a day to now maybe it is doing that 1.2 million threshold. And now Spotify puts it in today's top hits. And now it's at 2 million. You see what I'm saying? And now radio's like wait this is a smash it's a multiplier and so all of a sudden that extra 400 000 streams that are fake get a whole bunch of real ears and but i just could not live with myself if i did it because the reason why like and i'm gonna be honest it's so tempting yep right yeah i've even tweeted about it before where it's like wait a second if. If everyone's on steroids, am I an idiot?

Yeah. It's the baseball shit. Am I an idiot? Right. Like, am I being naive and almost childish where it's like, I'm sitting here still trying to like play the game the right way. And everyone else is like, dog, what are you doing? Like, you know, you know, we're all doing this. Right. Like, you know, you know, we're all doing this. Right. And so I start, you know, I oscillate with like yes and no every day. But I just have faith and I know that that house is going to come crumbling down and I don't want to be in it when it does. Because guess what it'll do? It won't just be, oh, Russ, you fake the streams on 315. It'll send the whole catalog to the question. Right because i and i that would fucking ruin me especially because you're independent right if you're not independent if you're already part of the label system right even if you put it all into question

they wouldn't be incentivized to tear them down but to you oh yeah there are people i'm sure they're part of the industry they've heard all the shit that you said and then seen your success without them and they're like they're waiting for me to fake my, the second, if I did it, second, I did it. Oh, it would be Russ is faking his strengths. And let this be a lesson to all other independent artists. Cause guess what that narrative is. Now the narrative would be, see, you can't get real success independent unless you fake

your strengths. You gotta be with a major. So like, I just feel I owe it not just to myself, but to the whole independent community to do it the real way. And look, if that means that I have a ceiling here, then so be it. But at least this is real. Why are y'all doing billions of streams and the tickets don't match? Because that is, explain that. Because I'll see certain guys that I think are these huge artists.

Right. Or girls too. And it's like they can do the festival shows. And people kind of know their songs at the festival shows. Right. But the festival is bringing in the people. It's a soft ticket. Yeah.

Right. Who is, so how do you explain the discrepancy? Yeah. I mean, honestly, some of it I will say, like Devil's Advocate, I do think certain music is geared towards a certain environment. Certain music is club music. You're not going to an arena to hear club music.

Rap sucks live, let's just be honest. Nah, not on this. It's awful. Rap is the worst music live. It's so bad, it's unbelievable. Give me an example of rap music. But Travis, I literally asked him afterwards. I was like, yo, usually rap sucks live.

Like, why didn't this suck? And he goes, he goes, he goes, I make music for the live show. Right. He goes, I'm specifically putting together these songs for this experience. That's a great point, counterpoint. You also saw 50 Cent the night before, and that was also incredible. I'm sure 50. Your theory is falling apart pretty quickly.

50 was incredible. I'm sure. We didn't see 50 in Arena, but 50 in Arena would be incredible. Yeah, of course. There's no question. What I'm trying to say is, I can listen to a random person sing karaoke,

and if their voice is amazing, it shuts it down. Yeah. You've seen those videos where people are singing a song in Italian in a restaurant. They just come in and start singing. The whole restaurant starts singing. Walk in and try to rap in a restaurant and see your ass get arrested immediately. If it's great, it'll...

Walk into a restaurant and start singing Lose Yourself. Get the fuck out of here. I got a chicken sandwich on the way. I don't want to hear that shit. Lose Yourself by Rick Hall. I think generally... Depending on the restaurant. But no, to that point, it depends on the music the environment was made for.

Yes. So if it's car cruising music where you're by yourself chilling, maybe you don't want to hear that in front of 18,000 people. Right, and maybe it's like, I don't want to hear two hours straight of it. You know what I'm saying? So I do think it's some of that, but also, yeah, it's the faking the streams. It's, you know.

Guys, Life Tour, Charlotte. Thank you so much for selling out the show. We added a second show in Charlotte. Also, Nashville, we are coming. Austin, we are coming.

Phoenix, we added a second show. San Francisco, you sold out all four shows. That's incredible. We'll see what we can do about that, but thank you guys so much. More cities are also available at theandrewschultz.com. you saw that all four shows. That's incredible. We'll see what we can do about that. But thank you guys so much.

More cities are also available at theandrewschultz.com. Go there. If there are tickets left, go check them out. And Philadelphia, you're up next. I will see you there soon. Peace. Yo, San Jose,

thank you guys so much. That was crazy. They had just expanded the club. We still sold it out and we had more people coming after. We filled up every standby ticket we could possibly fill. Other people still didn't get in. That was amazing. One of the best weekends of my comedy life. Thank you so much. Also, February 23rd and 24th, Oklahoma City. We're not doing the 22nd anymore. I have to film a little something. You will see

what it is soon. But Oklahoma City, February 23rd and 24th and March 1st and 2nd, Greensboro, North Carolina. I'm excited to be in a place that might not be so cold in March. So hurry up and buy your fucking tickets to that. And March 8th and 9th, Stanford, Connecticut. April 11th through 13th, Tempe. And April 18th through 20th, Denver, Colorado. We're doing another 420 show at Comedy Works, this time at the bigger location.

Let's see what happens. Get those tickets and more at akashsingh.com. Now let's get back to the show. Can you break down independent? I feel artists throw out. What is independent? Because some people have a distro, but they're independent.

I know. I have, yeah, it's kind of gotten. Like you even said you were signed, but then you say you're independent. What is that? Yeah, I'll just be fully transparent, even though I've posted when I literally partnered. But I partnered with Columbia in 2016,

summertime 2016. They say that too a lot. They don't say I'm not signed, I'm partnered. Right, right. partnered. But I partnered with Columbia in 2016, summertime 2016. They say that too a lot. They don't say, I'm not signed, I'm partnered. Right, right. No, but I partnered because they didn't own my masters. And the big piece was my back catalog that was on TuneCore. They didn't touch. So I had hundreds of songs.

TuneCore. Can you tell us casuals what TuneCore is? First breakdown. Yeah. So TuneCore, very quick, it's a digital distribution service. You pay $50 a year. You put up as much music as you want. You keep 100% of the profits, right?

So I had all this music up on TuneCore, and I created all this leverage because shit was going crazy. I was already touring. And I partnered with Columbia because at that time in 2016, it was a way different landscape. It's like Apple Music didn't even come out till 2015. I remember I had like what they want was in Rap Caviar back when Tuma Basa was running Rap Caviar. And I didn't even know what the fuck Rap Caviar was. Like that's how new everything was. So I signed because I was looking around the game and I was like, I want to be a massive artist.

I want to be on radio. And I'm listening to everyone on radio. I was like, I want to be a massive artist. I want to be on radio. And I'm listening to everyone on radio. I'm like, they're all signed. So let me level the playing field. That was the intention, right? So I partnered, but I kept my back catalog. I kept 100% ownership. And everything I did with Columbia was,

y'all get 50, I get 50. Simple. And you're the full master. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, that feels fair to me. Y'all putting up money, yeah. So it's like, that feels fair to me. You know, y'all putting up money, like, whatever. Let's rock out.

And then in 2020, I believe, went just back fully indie. Done with the deal. Why didn't it work out? Why were you not? It just got to the point where I realized the juice wasn't worth the squeeze, and they couldn't do anything for me that I couldn't do for myself. So that's my question. Like, you gave them 50%, which means you need to essentially double your profits that you could do on your own for it to be break even.

Right, right. Did you more than double being with them? Oh, yeah. Oh, so there was value in being with them. Well, I was, like I said, it was a moving train. I was going to make money anyway. Got it. So also, yeah, we're not counting how much you would have made off your next album with

all the hype and everything. Right, right. So you didn't think that they offered enough value to continue i think at a certain point once like the game sort of began to progress and once i started to see the big thing for me was like them getting told no that was big what do you mean meaning i which i know a lot of up-and-coming artists think like this oh well you get with a label and then you just get told yes to being on that playlist and yes to being on radio. Oh, so they're getting told no and you're like, the fuck am I with you?

Then you get with the label. I get told no by myself. Literally, that was the exact thought. And I told him that. I said, I get told no by myself. So those boardroom meetings, right? Some of those people sitting around the table, one of them is the Spotify and Apple rep.

You got to make him get on the table. It's just them calling, realistically, like y'all should be on the table, but why are you trying to sell me? Get him to pitch you, I'm gonna get you on a rap camp. You gotta start tapping. Once you realize, and once I saw that, all right, it's just a human being calling Spotify or Apple,

like, hey, of our 70 releases we have this Friday, you guys should really consider us for these playlists. And they can get told no. And I was like, well, wait a second. I can also get told no. Right. And keep 100%. Yeah.

You know, so, and when you talk to these people at the playlist, who do you think they would rather talk to? The dude at the label or the artist? Yeah. They're all in the music dude at the label or the artist? Yeah. They're all in the music business to be cool with the artist. Yeah, they don't want to talk to the squares. Yeah, and who's going to sell it better?

Yeah. Because guess what? The person at the label who's pitching your song to the playlist, right after he pitches yours, he's pitching seven others. And it's harder to tell you know than it is to tell the label, though. Exactly. Like, you're on the phone fighting for your shit right right they're not gonna be like nah no but they they have no problem telling this dude no you know also the ego stroke that they get when the artist themself is calling yeah that's an element that's gonna be on the playlist exactly and it's like and to be honest i would rather be in direct communication with like

who is responsible for maybe getting my music heard by more people you know but yeah once i realized like wait a second y'all get told no it's not a guarantee playlisting radio none of that's a guarantee with y'all all you can guarantee is like a big bag of money up front which is the most attractive part to a lot of people but right but that's your money they're giving you. And it comes with a crazy interest rate, and it's like, what are they giving you? That's the thing a lot of people don't realize. They're giving you, it's a loan with a shitty rate.

But it's not even a loan, because a loan wouldn't be taxed. If you took a loan from a bank, there's no tax on it. Right, because that's not necessarily income. It's a crazy situation. Now, what I'll say- The government's taking half immediately, but you got to pay back the full thing. Right.

I never understood that. So it's handcuffs. You remember that Jay-Z line? Y'all still taking advances, huh? I was like, what's wrong with advances? Right. Now that I learned, I'm like, that's the dumbest shit ever, dude. So let's just do, let's just, quick math.

Let's say they front you $5 million. Sure. You take that $5 million, government immediately comes and takes two and a half. No. But you still owe $5 million. No. Well, it depends what your deal is. So what you do is you get the $5 million.

Because you don't want to give as much money to the government, you pay commissions on the $5 million. Of course, you can write off your commissions. But most people have manager on $20 million, lawyer on $5 million, business manager on $5 million. So that's $30 million. So off top, what is that? That's 1.5 million. Okay. So you're at 3.5. Now you cut the 3.5 and a half. You're at 1.75. 1.75.

So you got five. That's really what five is. And that's before you spend anything. And you got to spend that on production. You got to send that on feeds. Because that's your recording advance. So just think about that. That's, to me, handcuffs. Now, there is a way to kind of, because I've spoken to certain companies about deals, right? Yeah. And I'm like, so what is the advantage of this? It seems like you're just giving me all the money up front, right? And I guess what I could do is if I was financially literate, which I'm not, I could invest it in smart ways.

I don't know how to do that. I genuinely don't. And I just tell them straight up. So it's like, it seems to me what this does is just kind of like shackles me to you. And I guess I get some money up front, but that money isn't my money. I have to make that money anyway. So, but what I did ask is what if we did a loan instead of an advance? Because a loan is technically not taxable with income tax. You only get taxed based on what you make back against that loan.

So you can, you know what I mean? There are certain ways around it. But it is kind of fucked up how- It is fucked up. Think about five turns to 1.75. Well, and a lot of people also think, well, if they give me five, that incentivizes them to get their money back.

It's, no, the whole label is cross-collateralized. Meaning, guess what? If I give you five and I give you five and I give you five and I give you five and these three flop and you make 50 mil back, I don't care that these three are covered because, and nor am I even going to pay attention to these. You've got to think of it almost like a VC. Keeping the lights on.

It's a venture capitalist that like, it doesn't matter. We only need one of these investments to work out.'s the same now what's the distribution deal distribution deal is is more so there's no ownership of masters the splits are way more favorable so like you go to empire maybe you get an 80 20 which is just like it's a profit split like there's no they don't own the masters right and they usually offer label services so that's where it's like back to the very original like what is independent yeah i mean there's different variations because independent to some people is well i'm just not with a major label it's like all right so you're not with a major label but you're with that label who has major label services and you got an advance and

they do label services it's's like, I guess. You know, I guess. Yeah, like in a sense, if that is your definition of independent, I'm just not with a major, then yeah, you're independent. But for me, for a while, you know, before Columbia, I was independent in the sense that I didn't depend on anyone to do anything for me. And even post-Columbia, that's what it was, up until the Santiago album, where I've been putting music out. Similar with

TuneCore is Vidya, right? Vidya is another digital distribution, right? I pay $50 a year, because I have a great relationship with the CEO. I pay $50 a year, put out as much music as I want. It's the same shit as TuneCore. Will they collect the money on your behalf so they recognize every time it's been played on radio, streamed? Yeah, It's the same shit as TuneCore. Will they collect the money on your behalf so they recognize every time it's been

played on radio, streamed? Yeah, it's the same thing as TuneCore. Everything is monitored and registered and collected. So there's an RSS feed or something that goes back to those? Yeah, there's a backend. There's a portal and you log in and you can see what everything's doing and how much money you withdraw. It's sent into your bank account. In Korea, it was played on this time a hundred times.

They owe you $10,000 from that. That all comes back. And I get paid every Friday. It's been like that since 2011. Gotcha. So instead of that going to the label and then the label distributes it to you, TuneCore can just do it so it cuts them out of the way. And artists on major labels it's a semi-annual check if you're recouped. So if you're recouped, you're getting

paid twice a year. Twice. That's if you're recouped. You get paid in March, April, and you get paid in fucking September, October. You know what's fucking hilarious, which I make this joke with my team all the time, just because of when I left the deal and kind of how it works out. My birthday is September 26th. And so every year, ever since I left Columbia, they send me a check for a meal on my birthday

because that's when the semi-annual date falls. So I always know that like on my birthday, they have to give me. Yo, that's sick. That's actually a nice little birthday present. It is. They hate that present. I know. I'm always like I know they're fucking throwing up right in there.

So the cross-collateralized thing is really interesting also. Yeah. Because I imagine that that's part of the idea around the 360 deal, which is, it's really just more protection from them. Of course. So it's like, I think we don't need your music to sell. We'll get it on the merch. So we gave you that 5 million. We need 5 million. Yeah. You only have 1.75 after paying commissions and taxes and whatever. So, so even if you paid us that back, we still need the other 3.25. Right. So if your album does nothing, but we throw you in these, you know, what's it called, shows, we send you around the world, we're getting that 3.75 back off of these other

things. I think our perception on 360 was they just want a little piece of everything. It's like, no, they don't even know if you're going to make money. Right. But if you do, we're going to get it. That's like the interesting thing, right? Is like this whole notion. This might come off crazy, but it's the reality. It's like, oh, it's a bad deal.

For who? For who? For the artist. The label's signing good deals. Oh, they're signing good deals. You know what I'm saying? And that's what people are not. Artists need to go into these meetings understanding it's business.

They are not about to sign a bad deal. You know what I'm saying? Which is why you need leverage to make them sign a deal that they normally wouldn't want to sign, but they don't want to lose out on your potential. It is funny how they get salty when they're on the wrong end of the deal, though. Of course. Of course. I feel like we should understand it's business and they should understand it's business yeah for sure yeah yeah can you talk about the dollars and cents when it comes to streams when you're independent and with a label

so if you get a million streams independent or a million streams with a million streams the artist get a million streams independent is like on spotify four grand give or take if you're independent yeah if you own a hundred percent of the song got it and then if you're with a label how much you get you may not see anything let's say you're already recouped how much is a million streams it depends on what your split is with the label it's the same four grand it's the same four grand it's like but i thought spotify has deals with record labels where it's like they get bigger better rates yeah sometimes it's like tier one rates or tier two rates yeah but some of these that's why you got got to be careful which distro you go to because some of these distros don't have the tier one rates that the labels have. They might have tier two rates, so they're actually getting less money per stream than a major label.

Oh, yeah, like TuneCore, yeah, TuneCore, Vidia, you're getting what the labels get. You're getting what the labels got. You're getting the same rates. Yeah, yeah,ya, you're getting what the labels get. Yeah. You're getting what the labels got. You're getting the same rate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're getting the same. But the reality is like Drake is getting more money per stream than the up and coming artists. Why is that? Because he's bringing more to Spotify.

He has leverage. Yeah, he's more valuable to the streamer. Oh, yeah. He's going to get more. He's got a better deal. He's going to get more. Yeah, he's going to get more. I'm not even mad at that, though.

Once again, people never consider the other side it's like bro this is this is a storefront right yeah that is allowing you you're stop with the entitlement is allowing you to sell your music in their store you don't have any leverage to say, this is some bullshit. You got this dude who's bringing y'all way more money, getting paid more than me? It's like, yeah. What are you talking about?

They put the money up for R&D. Am I going to put Nike in the storefront or your fucking brand that nobody's ever heard of? Right. Drake's deal. Oh, I don't know Drake's deal. I'm sure it's incredible. Do you have any ideas?

Not re-signed to a major. Isn't he doing something? No, I think he did re-sign. I think they gave him a crazy bag. The Apple one? No, no, no. He re-signed, I think, with Republic, and I think he got a disgusting bag, as he should.

What are the rumors of how disgusting it is? I know what y'all know. It was what was online. 300? 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300,. Fucking three, four, who knows? I mean, they're going to get it back. That's the thing. It's a guarantee they get that back. And it might be cross-collateralized with his past stuff. Oh, it is cross.

It has to be. That's how they get the money. So you're going to get it back off of the old stuff anyway. Well, think about it. It's like if you're with the label for five years, right? Five years, five albums, and you've generated 200 million with that label. You go into another label they can't give you 200 up front because you're starting from scratch the label you've already made all

this money with that's your best chance to get the biggest bag because they can just cross collateralize it once again they protect themselves with your past work each album is the investment so guess what if we own drake or nik or Ariana Grinder or Taylor Swift's catalog, even if her next album or next five albums flop, we're making 500 mil off these last seven. It doesn't matter. And Drake knows that too. So the number's going up with what he asked for.

He's like, these albums don't even need a hit. These are going to get played for the next 20 years. It's more because it's macro. In totality, I'm a lucrative product. Doesn't he have enough money, incentive, and popularity to go independent after his deal? Sure, but he just, I don't know, he just may not want to. Because there is a, there's something to be said that's not right or wrong.

Not every path is for everyone. Some people, like, they don't, being independent takes a lot of work, a lot lot of like entrepreneurial not saying that he or anyone else doesn't have it but it's just some people they want to show up and rap and like yo send me send me my big ass bag make sure all my shit's on radio i'll talk to y'all when i talk to y'all yeah there's you know what i mean which there's nothing wrong with that i get that me i'm just like'm just really, really obnoxiously hands-on. I like being hands-on. I like every aspect of my career. I like the business side.

I like every, I really do. I genuinely have a passion for every side of it. There's certain comics that I'll talk to, right? And I'll explain, like, if I'm just trying to give them some game, I'll just explain what they need to do in order to achieve what they want. Right. And I'll really kind of spell it out. Yeah. And then I'll develop different models for them.

I'll be like, listen, if you don't want to learn how to edit, if you want to learn how to subtitle, if you don't want to bring a camera. I bring a camera bag to every show by myself, put it up in the back of the fucking room, move some tables out of the way. It gets knocked over halfway through the set. I got to ask some security guard to stand by it, figure out how to do audio. It's a lot. And sometimes I can tell they don't want to do all that. So I'm like, you know what? You might need a partner with somebody who's going to do all that. Or you need to bring somebody up. In that case, that's what I did with Al. I was like, listen, I want you to handle this aspect of the biz. And there's certain people that they just don't know how to do it. They're not industrious. That's not one of their passions. And it might be better for

them to lose that 10% or that 20%. Right. Put your energy towards something else. Put straight up. And I think to that point, a lot of people just like, be honest with yourself. You know, who are you? What are you willing to do? And the thing that trips me out is like, if you determine that you're not willing to be this industrious entrepreneurial type of spirit, if that's like, you realize that's not real to you. It's like, okay, you bring in someone or a company and they give you millions of dollars and take this massive gamble on you. Of course, you don't have the leverage in the situation. They're taking all the risk.

You know what I'm saying? If you determine that, oh, I just want to make songs and I want y'all to risk millions of dollars on me, why would you have the good deal in that situation? They're taking all the risk. Life is leverage. And I think the reality, and maybe in the future this is what's going to happen but artists have a louder voice than labels i'm not advocating for labels i've never been anti-label

i've been anti-bad deals yeah i've been anti-exploitation yeah i've been anti not owning your shit i've never been oh anti-majorly yeah it's just anti-bad deals but the artists have a louder voice than the labels so maybe in the future labels like will be famous like the dude at the label is famous and he has a voice and he's saying like look we spent millions of dollars we risked millions of dollars on you you had 10 000 monthly, and we still put up 2 million on your potential. Why would you get the bigger end of the straw? Makes no sense. Yeah.

I think it's logical. Yeah. I think it makes sense. Just remove the labels and all this shit. If you've got a friend who needs, they're a musician or whatever, and they're like, oh, I really want to do this music thing. Take away music. Do it with a restaurant. Restaurant.

Okay, fine. Sorry, he's a restaurant. Excuse me. Go, go, go. And it's like they don't want to do anything but like run the restaurant, whatever the fuck it is. They want to cook food, bro. They want to cook food. That's all they want to do is make food.

But they need the money. They need two million to open up a restaurant. So you give them two mil, and then they're confused when the money comes in that you're getting more. I'm cooking the food. Why are you doing it? It's like, motherfucker. Like this doesn't happen. Yeah.

Not even this doesn't happen. It's like I took all the risk. You don't get paid for work. You pay for risk. Yes. Right. Exactly. And it's like I think a lot of times artists forget that.

Now that's not to say that they could take advantage of those situations. No. Like I said, I'm anti-exploitation. But at the same time, like be real with yourself. Yeah. artists forget that now that's not to say that they could take advantage no like i said i'm anti-exploitation but at the same time like be real with yourself yeah if you are somebody who's like i'm not willing to do anything but go to the studio then and you also take all the risk that's fine but then also know what kind of situation you're going to end up being in yeah it's going to be them they're going to out on top, cuz they're taking all the risk. Curious to hear what's your opinion on residencies?

Cuz I feel like the look of them has changed. They used to be like, your career is done. You're on the back nine of your career. Now it's like people want residencies. Yeah. What Usher did was fantastic. Britney Spears. Britney, I think, is a little loony bin, but Usher- she just got kicked out of the Four Seasons forever because she went naked into the pool or something like that. Oh, that's fire.

Britney really going through it. Have you smashed? What? I don't know. You're famous, bro. You're a famous musician, bro. He said, I never met her. That's why.

You know what's so funny? There's a clip of her running naked on the beach to what they want. No. Yes. That's why I asked that question, bro. Yeah, I figured. It was in the ether, bro. Yeah, right.

No, I mean, residencies for me, like, I'm not going to Vegas like that. Saudi, though. You could have a residency for the next 25 years. And that's nothing against Vegas. I love the Vegas fans. I'm just like, the city to me is like, I can't. It's going to eat away. I just don't like the environment like that.

It's like, there's someplace else. Yeah, I think if, look. Secaucus, New Jersey. G's up, Secaucus. I think if it makes sense for you, yeah. I mean, you know, you go somewhere six times a year and you already love the place anyway. Yeah. And they're giving you a meal or whatever.

It's like, yeah, why not? Do you think younger artists should start doing residencies or have the yeah because i mean it's soft ticket you know what i mean and a lot of times like can you explain what that means for people soft ticket is people were going to be there anyway so like if i perform at a club on a friday night it's a soft ticket show because guess guess what? If I'm not there, they're still there. By club, you mean like if you go to Live or Eleven in Miami. There was already going to be people there. Exactly.

Whereas with Vegas casinos, there's already people that are there. There's already people there. And they're going to look for something to do besides gamble. You're just the entertainment for the night. Exactly. So soft ticket as opposed to like, yo, I'm at Barclays. Pull up. That's like if y'all don't show up, no one's there. Nobody was at Barclays, pull up. That's like, if y'all don't

show up, no one's there. Nobody was at Barclays that night. And then, oh, Russ is here? You are the ticket. You're the ticket. It's a soft ticket play, so the pressure is off of you because there's going to be people there anyway. You don't need to do crazy promotion about it because there's going to be people there

anyway. Smart. Do it smart you could save on like production costs yeah like destination yeah or risk 10 arena cities or let me do a bang up show at a place where we all know vegas everyone's coming in from everywhere anyway especially if it's not a market that you're strong in with hard tickets so you're not taking away from what you like i would never do it in LA because LA is my strongest market hard ticket wise. But in a market where I'm maybe

not so strong hard ticket wise and they want to give me a residency, I wasn't going to sell tickets there anyway like that. Also like lifestyle, like Usher is how old? 40? In his 40s is like, do you want to be on a plane every single night for this tour?

Or do you want to park yourself for a month in Vegas, bring your family there, chill? Yeah. And a lot of them live in LA and fly. Or, yeah, you're taking a flight that's 30 minutes. Yeah, it's definitely, yeah. It just has to align with your lifestyle, for sure. For me, it doesn't really. Do you feel like the labels are mad at you for exposing and talking about the bad deals yeah i mean it doesn't it doesn't bode well for them so i'm sure

they're not like thrilled have you felt any heat or pressure from them in any way um yeah yeah they've um they've called radio like, you know, threatened radio to be like, you play his shit, I'm not giving you the new. Really? Oh, yeah. Really? Why don't you expose him? Because then what? I mean, like, actually call him out.

Well, I mean, because, like, because I think what I learned is it just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. So I say that and then what? Realistically. Because I'm on an island, right? So I say it. I dig my heels in the sand and I say, these people over there, they're trying to fuck me.

It's like, well, bro, what'd you expect? There's this whole circle right here of people on the inside that are trying to protect this and you're over here you're surprised they're doing everything they can to shut this down people don't like bullies and it's like if we hear a story like big bully is trying to blackball this independent young artist like yeah i think that would capitalize more people to support maybe um but i think it would do more people to support. Maybe. But I think it would do more harm than good.

Then you have other people who might be like, oh, he's complaining. He's making this up. It would more so be that narrative of you're just bitter. You're just mad. And it would also like the labels are in cahoots with everything and everyone. You attack one, you attack the other. Yeah, it's like, oh, you want to come out and say this? Well, kiss your complex interview goodbye. You know what I mean?

It does more harm than good, and I've already said what I needed to say. Is radio even still a massive driver of... Radio still is valuable. There's still a game there to be played,

especially at Pop Radio. You make a shit ton of money on the publishing side. Okay. Yeah. Like, if you get a number one at Pop Radio, the publishing check is bananas. Yeah, because of the program. There are still people. Yeah, for sure.

And, like, look, the reality is, you know, I did those three stadiums with Ed Sheeran, and I saw firsthand, like like the difference between an arena and a stadium when you look at stadium acts radio wait because you know why I'll tell you why guess who's going to the stadium show parents and kids yeah guess who listens to the radio parents yeah yeah yeah that's that's what takes you from like, I did Hollywood Bowl, 17,000 people, right? It's like, well, Rose Bowl, 70,000. Yeah, that's a big jump.

It's a massive jump. What was the first stadium? Was it MetLife? Levi Stadium. Where's that? Santa Clara. It's like where the 49ers play. This dude broke this fucking Super Bowl record.

That's unbelievable. He's not even from here. You know what I mean? Okay, so break it down. So you and Ed are there. You're opening for Ed or you come out during his set? Okay, so you come out.

I do a 45 minute set and then like 10 songs into his set or whatever, he brings me out and we do a song together. How many people are there when you go on? You know what? It was damn near packed because someone went on before me. I'm direct support so I went on right before Ed. So maybe not at the first song, but halfway through my shit, it's pitch black outside.

And it's fucking, when I say put the lights up, it's the whole shit. But break down like maybe early in your career. Like sometimes the opening acts, people are still walking their seats. Yeah, it's tough. Even in comedy, you see this. And it's tough. It's tough. Yeah, even in comedy you see this. And it's something where we try to really avoid it.

Especially when you know they're not there for you. That's the tough part. But what I feel like is with at least L.A., if it's your biggest market, Santa Clara is like how far from L.A.?

A couple hours. It's like San Francisco. San Francisco. That's where the Niners play. Oh, I'm thinking Santa Ana. No. No, so I guess it's way more than a couple hours.

It's very close to San Jose. But California in general is like a massive okay so you went up there they're your fans out there too yeah for sure for sure did it feel like a rust concert for those 45 minutes no no but what i'm saying what's the difference. What I'll say is that... Where's the ginger? I'm like, what can I do with myself? And they're like... You got to sing all his shit. Yeah. You are going to do it yourself.

We're not singing nothing. We're not here. No, but what I'll say is with the stadium, there's so many fucking people that you can't even see. You really can only see the first couple rows.

And the first couple rows for me, even at my own shows, it dictates the whole energy. And so the first couple rows at the shows, it was filled with fans of mine who are so diehard. So I was right at home. It was fine. It was completely.

Yeah, yeah. You want more? When in Rome, might as well. Okay, so any adjustment with the stadium, though? Size, does that? No, you know what? And I've said this before about arenas arenas and stadiums are easier to do than like performing for 80 000 people way easier than performing for this amount

of people oh yeah because this amount of people like y'all are all just right here there's no hiding and there's no like silence it's so 80,000 people you're sorted I don't know it's like surreal you're just kind of like you're there and they're there but y'all are not that connect I don't know how to explain it yeah hmm oh yeah for sure for sure I don't know what that is but and probably once you get a moving to it's like a tree yeah you like that momentum is so much. And the energy is so palpable. And like I said, it's different than feeling like I need to personally connect with each seven people in the room right now.

Because there's only seven. There's 80,000 people. I just need to like crush this and be in my world and like feed off the energy and whatever. But yeah, I don't know. It was an experience. What's the smallest show you ever did? Oh man, probably like 40 people. Oh no, what am I talking about?

Four people, Atlanta, 20, I'll tell you the exact date. December 6th, 2014. Okay, four people. Yeah. What's the venue? Masquerade in Atlanta. Okay, you show up, you do the whole show? No, so Diamond, the label that me and my boy started,

we were like gung-ho about the show, the showcase that we had set up. Like, yo, it's December 6th, and everyone pull up. We got to fuck, like my dad got us a fucking limo or something. No, no, no, no. And we thought we were the shit. We're like in the limo with like champagne bottles, and we're taking pictures of the marquee.

We show up and literally four people. And we crushed. Oh, you did the whole show? Oh, yeah. I mean, that was the thing back then, bro. It was like all you had to go off of was your delusional confidence in yourself. So that like for me, it didn't matter who was in the crowd. yourself so that like for me it didn't matter who was in the crowd i was i envy that person sometimes characteristics of that person because i was just happy to be on stage i didn't like who was in the audience was irrelevant i was just happy to be in a light that i always saw myself in

oh wow so there's no embarrassment like oh my god none at all none at all wow none at all i like i felt zero embarrassment for that night more embarrassment for in a 7 000 cap venue if only 6 000 show up wow do you keep in touch with those four people at all i assume you guys connected after the show yeah some of them are like we call them one of his name is uh nick everett and like we call me and boogus who i started diamond with like we call him, one of his names is Nick Everett. And like we call, me and Boogus, who I started Diamond with, like we refer to a lot of like people. I was like, oh yeah, he's a Nick Everett. It's this dude from Tennessee.

Yeah, he was the first one to get like the logo tattooed on him. He was at every show. Show. Yeah, but it's like, to me, I don't know, man. Like that's what, that's what makes all this so much sweeter. Is because I like, I wasn't one of those artists who and i feel for these kind of artists who you blow up and you haven't even done a show yet where are you supposed to go from here like you gotta you got songs with hundreds of millions

of streams and you haven't done a show yet that's fucking terrifying i would have been fucked if that happened how long did it take you to get your show good? Oh, man. It took me a minute, and I'm glad I got to do it in sort of that circuit of when no one was really paying attention. By the time I was really doing shows, I was okay. You know what I mean? But I feel for people like Lil Nas X or Olivia Rodrigo. Ice Spice got ripped. It was her first time on stage, and she's not as compelling as you. Was that her first time on stage and she's not as compelling as...

Was that her first time on stage? It was an outdoor show. She did something and they were kind of clowning her. It's like she's literally never performed in front of people. I remember when Olivia Rodrigo, she blew up

and the shit went crazy and she posted her first tour and it was like 2,500 caps. And obviously she could have done arenas and everyone was like, what the fuck? Because her fans are like, there's so many of us, why would you book such

small rooms? Because she got to learn how to handle it. Yo, she's never done this. Slipping 2,500 is a lot of money. Bro, when I tell you I remember 2014 Dame from Funk Volume which was the label that hops in and was on, right?

I remember he had reached out 2014 and he was like we were talking about maybe doing a deal he brings me out to colorado to like do a set before hops in and funk volume and shit and i brought boogas and i remember being in the parking lot the venue was cervantes ballroom it was 1100 people and I was freaking the fuck out in the parking lot. Like, 1,100. Whoa. And I remember getting up on stage. Like, I remember asking Boots, like, yo, can you just come up on stage with me?

Because this is like, I don't even think I can do this. And I remember going up on stage. And 1,100 people, it might as well have been a million. It felt so out of control. Yeah, yeah, yeah. it might as well have been a million. It felt so out of control. It felt like, what's crazy is if I had never done anything past that point, that person would just think I made it. It's like, what do you mean?

Perform for 1,100 people. It felt so crazy. Moments like that help me maintain perspective on how big things have gotten and how real shit is. And it gives me the ability to have empathy for artists, like you said, like Ice Bice or Olivia Rodrigo. Any of these people, 2,500 people is insane. 1,100 is insane. 500 is insane. People don't understand, like, if you haven't done this shit yet and you go up you just get thrusted up on stage you got 300 400 people like you gotta entertain us yeah it's a lot if you've never done that

there's a lot of pressure on that especially if it's like yo we're here for you we're the ones supporting your music don't let us down yeah it's a lot what was the last show you did where you felt that pressure of like that opening show with 1100 people um hollywood bone staple center i was a little like a little freaked out right before i walked out it's weird because i don't get nervous before shows anymore because i know they're all there for me yeah and like it's like clockwork like i do this in my sleep right staple center was like oh fuck yeah you gotta bring it and i wasn't nervous until like literally as i'm walking out and i was like whoa like yeah this is stable because i'm looking up and it's sold out up to

the fucking boxes up top yeah i'm like dog like this is the lakers game yeah yeah because you know when you like you know when you do an arena like they customize the whole back area so like on the ground instead of like you know a basketball whatever the fuck logo that it's like circles with my name like the fucking owner of live nation has given me ipads with like congrats you sold out staples and a theme shit i'm like holy fuck like my parents are here like people are watching how was the show it was crazy could you did you lock in during it or were there moments where you were actually reflecting on the fact that you were i think a lot of times and i wonder if artists do i disassociate on stage

sometimes yeah yeah where like it's almost like y'all are watching me have a imposter syndrome in the middle of my set because i'm sad like a lot of times during songs i'm like i can't believe these people happening bro yeah it's like what believe these people are here. This is just happening, bro. I'm just like, what are these people doing here? Then you've got to remind yourself, no, stay in it. Like, oh, God. Yeah. Sometimes.

Yeah. I mean, Stable Center was one of those ones I was like, whoa. Especially because that time, I wasn't doing in-ears. In-ears means you have the song playing from the monitors? Yeah. How do you not do in-ears? Yeah. So I fucking hated in-ears because I wanted to be a monk.

Explain the in-ears for the people. So in-ears is this. If you do in-ears, traditionally, all you're going to hear, you're wearing headphones, right? You see the artists, they have that FBI shit in their ear while they're performing. All you're going to hear is the backing track. You hear no crowd. It's like you're in the studio. So you're a little detached from the crowd.

You're performing and you just hear your vocals that you're singing over the backing track, over the instrumental. And you're looking at the crowd and you're just like, what the fuck? So I just never fucked with that. Right? So no in-ears. And so that's like crazy to people in the music

business because like how did you even hear yourself like and how did you did you have the monitors high on the stage yeah i always would have the monitor super high on the stage so monitors and i would just wing it they're the speakers on the stage that actually face the artists yeah and that's kind of how you can see how you sound but i agree with you like feeling the audience is important and and that can be distorted if you're only hearing a bad track. Even now, I use in-ears, but I do one in, one out.

One in, I was going to say, seems like the compromise. You've got to hear them. That's what you feed off of. It's tough. I try to do where your monitor guy sort of tries to ride the crowd volume. Oh, I don't like that.

You know what I mean? All of a sudden, you're performing. Don't tell him. Tell him. Every time when we're doing a walkthrough, I have't like that. I hate it. You know what I mean? Like, all of a sudden you're performing and then... Don't tell him. Tell him, tell him. It's like crazy. Every time when we're doing a walkthrough, I have to tell him, I go, I might get quieter. Don't adjust.

Leave it, leave it. I'm doing that on purpose. Yeah, exactly. One DB, and he'll know. No, of course. Because it throws you off. It does, it does. All of a sudden it's like, oh.

And you might be using your volume as a tool. Right. Right. Also, guys, I know you're enjoying this episode with Russ, but I got to give you your prize picks for this week. Your sing locks for Super Bowl Sunday. That was very alliterative. Here we go. We ready? First of all, prize picks, shouts,

giving you a free square, practicing the homes more than a half a yard. That's done. Isaiah Pacheco, I think, gets more than 64 and a half yards rushing. And I think Travis Kelsey gets more than a half a touchdown because Taylor Swift is going to be there and she don't lose. And last, I might just be a hater, but I don't think George Kittle hits his mark. I think he gets less than 47 and a half yards receiving. PricePix.com, guys. And if you use

the promo code SHOLTS, they will match your initial deposit up to $100. So you put up 100, you get 100 for free. Why don't you gamble with 100 free dollars? PricePix.com, guys, and if you use the promo code SHOLTS, they will match your initial deposit up to $100. So you put up $100, you get $100 for free. Why don't you gamble with $100 free? PricePicks.com. Now let's get back to the show. How was it at the Pyramids? Insane. Yeah, can you explain, like, how that goes? Did you tell them you were Egyptian to get that?

Because you're a little bit. Absolutely. Yeah, no, I got a passport. No, because that's a different, we looked into that for something, and, like, it's not an easy thing. It's very difficult because the government is, like, you have to get approved by the government to do something like that. It's a historical site. Because these Danish motherfuckers did a porno on top of the pyramid. Did you hear about that?

No. Some people fucked on top of one of the pyramids, and after that, they really started. This is at your Google searches. It's like, you want to know if you would be the first? Who has fucked on the top? He's actually just jumping off to the parents. There's so many bricks. People fucking on top of his way.

He wants to know how they feel. His face is too north. He's an alien. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, okay, so you got to get government approval to do this show. Government approval. Certain songs you can perform. You have to submit your set list.

Which ones? What songs? It was either there, somewhere in the Middle East, but I couldn't do Young God because anything religious. Yeah. Yeah, so anything super vulgar you can't do, which is, once again, it's like people in the business know. There's a lot of artists who have tried to do it. Once again, it's like people in the business know. There's a lot of artists who have tried to do it.

And, like, when I've talked to booking agents and whatever, it's like this artist submitted their 30-song set list and two songs got approved. Can't do it. Can't do it. What song did you know the audience wanted to hear but you couldn't play for that show? None. None. Everything that I knew they wanted, I could do. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. How big of a deal is cussing? Like, you say vulgar, but. At the Py's fine pyramids is fine but i like i did the first ever rap show in kuwait and i was not allowed to cuss fans had to remain seated the whole time i couldn't dance not that i dance but i do a little two-step there was none of that you know what did it look like? Even a podium? You look like a stand-up copy. Do you have a video?

Give us a video. I posted every show I've ever done. It was cool. Imagine the ballroom of a hotel. It was kind of that. There was a stage and there were seats. Everyone had to remain seated. Me just being obnoxious at that time, I was like, fuck.

It's like I'm like trying to rile them up. I don't give a fuck. Even though I did well with not cursing, but certain shit gets out of hand. Yeah. Type in, yeah. Type in maybe Russ Kuwait. Oh, yeah. This is it.

Yeah. See, I'm still dancing. I'm still hitting my feet. I would have arrested you. Yeah. I would have arrested you. So the craziest thing. Son, this is the board Yeah. See, I'm still dancing. I'm still hitting my feet. I would have arrested you. Yeah. I would have arrested you. So the craziest thing. Son, this is the boardroom.

Here we go, right? Look, everyone's sitting down. And they had, like, you know, officials from the government running through the middle telling people to sit down. See, someone stood up. Wow. Crazy. They went over to him and told him to sit back down. Oh, my God.

Now, the craziest thing that happened during this show is in the middle of my set i turn around at this point like my manager was djing dj we i he used to just plug in an aux to the laptop and we just rocked out yeah that's like how we did like massive shows yeah and um i turn around to him and i have to stop the show because there's the show because there's a royal family member who's like, my daughters want pictures. Wow. In the middle of the show. Middle of the set. Crazy.

And he's telling me, he's like, yo, this guy, he wants his daughters to come up on stage and take pictures. I'm like, I'm kind of busy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I just didn't do it no yeah which it ended up being fine like after the show i don't know if it's in this clip but after the show i talked to all of them backstage and it was no i guess it's not it's on my end wait you talked to the daughters backstage no no i talked to the diplomats and the officials yeah you're pleading for your life at that point or what is that like no it's fine it was fine i just feel like back then i just you

know i'm just coasting on like it can't happen to me yo it's all gonna be fine i told them this shit yeah yeah when we were in uh abu dhabi and uh we were doing the the what is it called like the little run through before the show we're just doing sound check and shit and i was kind of like wowing a little bit during the sound right and the promoters were getting a little nervous sure i can't imagine what you're did you have to cut anything out i ain't cut anything we presented the list of what he couldn't say and and i was like violated and i was like yo they're not gonna arrest me i had the same thought like why is this a bad idea and uh but i remember them getting nervous and then basically the way that they positioned it was that they would go after the promoter i think it was yeah like you know the promoter would be

worried about they would be responsible as well yeah right it's also yeah you want to go back right especially when you know that the audience is great that's what they really have yeah they got a great sense of humor obviously don't talk't talk about Muhammad, but just talking about them. I posted a video. I'm making fun of them for the first 10, 15 minutes of this. Nuance it just about their culture. They love it. Jesus Christ.

We think that they don't want to make fun of themselves, but they don't want to laugh. They do. Don't talk about Muhammad. Talk about everybody else. You never think that, but it makes the most sense when you pull it back because it's like God is God. Yeah. We're not God. We're just people.

So we can get made fun of. You know what traveling does? And like I just brought my dad on this trip that I just went on. He doesn't come around a lot. And it was so interesting to watch his perspective sort of open. But to that point, it's like when you travel to all these different parts of the world, what you realize, everyone is a human. Yeah. Everyone is just a person. I didn't world, what you realize, everyone is a human. Yeah. Everyone is just a person.

I didn't see them as humans either, bro. I agree. Nah, dude. You know what I mean? Just white people. Just white people. No, but it's like, you know, you watch the news and you see shit and you think that people are like. Yeah.

Japanese people are this way. Yeah, they're this way. And it's like, bro, everyone has the same internal trauma. Japanese people are odd, bro. Japanese people are odd. We got to acknowledge that. It's just ridiculous. Have you are odd, though. Japanese people are odd. We got to acknowledge that. Have you been to Japan? Yeah.

They're odd. They're odd. They're the most odd. Just all of them. Every sense. What do you think? Every sense, they're the most odd. And I don't like how we can't acknowledge it.

That's why we go, because they're odd. If they was normal, we wouldn't go. I think Japan is fucking awesome. I'll tell you why. You didn't say it's that awesome. No, I think Japanese people are moving off of a ill honor code. I fuck with it. You go out there.

There's no one at the grocery store. It's just an honor code. Leave the money in the back. Ain't that odd? Or good? Nobody's eating? No, no, no. I'm saying no employees to make sure you're not stealing.

Because they just know you're not going to steal shit. That's odd. That's awesome. No, it's awesome. There can be awesome. The food that they make is awesome. It's odd that when I see two people on a date. I think odd has a negative connotation, but it is odd.

Listen, there's some things that are good and some things that are bad. My boy passed out in the street. Shout out to Ben. Ben, he had to pass out in the street. He woke up. In Japan, he passed out in the street. Passed out in the street. Blacked out, passed out in the street.

Woke up in the morning. They had his socks and shoes next to him. And his socks rolled up and stuffed into the thing. Passed out on the street, blacked out, passed out on the street, woke up in the morning, they had his socks and shoes next to him and his socks rolled up and stuffed into the thing. Isn't that fucking incredible? That's odd because they was jerking off to his feet.

That's the thing that you didn't realize. Is that proven? That's not true. That's not true. You're speculating. Is that proven? Where's the footage?

Can I see that? Yo, travel though, your India clip was crazy. Can you talk to me about that whole experience bro india i felt like justin bieber i was like oh this is like a little taste that was a crazy clip dude wow can we show it yeah it's rock star shit yeah i don't know if it's oh my god bro uh first of all india is like the fastest growing market on spotify right it's a massive country. The people are so loving, so supportive. I've not seen people

go that hard for me. There's only so many groups of people who really match that level of intensity. Man, I went to India. The second I landed, there's people at the airport, which I'm not used to. Fans lined up. NBA championship? Yeah. But respectful, like maintaining six feet. Not like, yo. Oh, they don't do that with us. No. It was just like, whoa, y'all are clearly diehard

fans, but it was so respectful and the shows were fucking... The level of passion of Indians in general is just nuts. Bro, it was bananas. The two shows I did, I did one in Mumbai and Delhi and it was like, oh man, this is fucking nuts out here. I think I saw the Mumbai clip, I think. It's nuts, bro. How many races try to

claim you? I feel like you could pass with just about a guy tip. I'm racially ambiguous on the internet. It's facts, bro. I thought you was a Derek Jeter when I first heard about you. Isn't it funny? Does anyone know what he is yet? You shouldn't tell him. You keep on lying about being Italian.

You got to cut that shit out. Right. What are you really, bro? Keep it in the whole thing. He's fucking Japanese. That's what he is. That's why I knew he got defensive. You know what's so funny?

It's like, bro, that's what a lot of people thought and still think. I was telling you off camera before the interview. It doesn't even matter that I've told people, like, you never lived in Saudi. They're like, nah, I know someone who went to school with you in Saudi. It's like, nah, I know someone who went to school with you in Saudi. It's like, okay. I've gotten DMs from like, yo,

like my friend went to, no lie, real DM, yo, my friend went to school with you in Costa Rica when you were like 14. Yeah, that's crazy.

I just went along with it. I'm like, yeah, tell myself what's up. I mean, your album is called Santiago. I know what it is, but they're not going to know.

I'm just constantly throwing curveballs. Keep people on their toes. What race are you the most attractive? What does that mean? So like, if you're a, okay, if you're like a, let's say, say again. Latinos.

No, not what race is the most attractive. We know that. That's true. We know Latinos are, obviously, yeah. So, no, but I'm saying it's obviously. For example, Dove, right? Dove is like an 8 as an Italian.

11 as an Israeli. So what are you... That's really a Frederick. Wait, you think it's the opposite? No, I think it's the opposite. Okay, so what race... You're a bad person, dude. You're a fucking bad person.

He does that to everybody. Anytime you call him, he sucks too. Anytime you call a dude good looking, both of them are like, okay. Y'all think you're cute? Do you think y'all are cute? Al, you're a four.

Mark, you're good looking. He's a black 12. He's a black 12. He's a black 12. He is an African 12. You wouldn't be least attracted to the black. It's interesting to learn the conversion rate. What is the conversion? What is he as half black, half white?

That's a fine ass half black with the good hair. He's up there, bro. And the eyes. Two different colors. Two different colored eyes. Two different colored eyes? You've got to give me something. Stop staring so long.

My bad. Sorry. Long stare me something. Stop staring so long. Stop staring so long. My bad. My bad. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Long stare, you're sorry. No, but it's funny. Because bad person, you're a bad friend. Shut up.

Shut up. I know who you are. Look, not to shift the silly topic to like a real thing, but I do think this is an opportunity to actually talk about something real as that. Sounds like you're about to make it gay as fuck. No, no, no, no, no, no. Okay. When I first blew up, there was so much like, what is he? And I do think that to ignore that is dismissive.

Like, that played a big role in my success. Oh, that everybody felt like they could. Everybody felt like they could see themselves in me. You know what I mean? 100%. Yeah, because, and I've said it before in an interview. Tell them that they can't because they're ugly. You can't see yourself in me.

Being white or racially ambiguous online makes it easier to reach the masses. Makes it harder to reach hip-hop because hip-hop is black right and so it's very clear i'm not black but it makes it easier to reach the masses and to ignore that is dismissive and i and i know that like you know when i first blew up saudi was like the whole middle east was like oh you're middle eastern so like we super love you yeah you know and then like uh the past for a lot of hispanic people yeah right You know, and then like Hispanic people He doesn't leave me Give me a love fade in two weeks in the Mediterranean Wait, do Italians

really fuck with you? Yeah, but you know what's so funny? When I did a show in Italy I'm doing a show and it's like a regular show It's fucking turnt and like halfway through the show I was like, oh fuck, I'm doing a show and it's like a regular show. It's fucking turnt. Halfway through the show, I was like, oh fuck. I'm Italian. I gotta play this card right now.

I was like, oh shit. I was wondering why I felt so much realer. I don't know. It just felt like home in a different way. You know what I'm saying? It dawned on me all of a sudden, like, whoa,

everyone in the room is Italian. This is crazy. You know, because when you do a show in America, there's not the sense of patriotism

where it's like, yo, everyone's American in here. You know what I'm saying? But doing a show in Italy and I'm Italian, it took a second because I'm just running

through the motions, but then I was like, whoa, everyone in here is Italian. So six songs deep, I'm like, yo, did I tell you all that because I'm just running through the motions, but then I was like, whoa, everyone in here is Italian. So like six songs deep, I'm like, yo, did I tell you all that I'm Italian? Did I mention? I was like, we don't give a fuck. No, I do get that.

Like when we did the show in Scotland, my mom's from Scotland, and when we did the show there. It feels a little bit different. Yeah, it felt like I wanted to hang out with them for longer to be, I don't even know. I don't even know. It's like your DNA lighted up a little bit different yeah i felt like i want to hang out with them for longer to be i don't even know i don't even know i haven't reflected on that light it up a little yeah and it feels like they're excited that you come from the same place that they came from right right and the same culture kind of bleeds through you of course yeah there's that connection point that's like you guys are doing shows in india right yeah i mean anytime i go to india i'm like oh yo this is i know we laugh because i don't know enough about india i don't speak hindi well enough but like my soul is like, yo, this is, I'm home right now.

You can feel it. I'm talking about it. You can feel it, yeah. I'm like, yo, this is it. I'm home. No, it's incredible. What country smells the best? I'm going to go with Italy.

Yeah. Yeah. Let's see if it's Europe. Those are clumped. That was a follow-up question. I'll bring a Scottish one. What could follow from there? I'm just saying

That's a follow up question What was the layup? Yeah, yeah, yeah What country Which Asian is the oddest? Yeah, yeah, yeah No, which is the oddest though? Which is

Asians are the oddest? They just are They just are They just a little They're not a little odd Come on, bro But see, like I really think

They're just like perfectionists At everything they do Odd is a negative Everything is trying to be perfect I can tell you Can we talk about another one? You said yeah But your soul said no When you looked at me And said yeah But see, I really think they're just like perfectionists at everything they do. How does a negative sound perfect? Can we talk about another one? You said yeah, but your soul said no when you looked at me and said yeah. You go, yeah. They are perfectionists in the culture of brief perfection.

You want me to give you a gem my mom gave me? Yeah. Is when somebody has a perspective that's unfamiliar to you, a beautiful response is, that's interesting. It's very unfamiliar to you. Yeah. Like a beautiful response is, that's interesting. Hmm. It's very open-minded. So it's like, they're not odd.

Yeah. They're interesting. It's like, interesting. But you know what you mean. But interesting is way more positive. You know what you meant and you know what your mom meant. But it's a different energy.

Listen, it's a different energy. It's great. But then you go there and you're like, these are some odd ducks. Okay, see, but that's negative, bro. They're interesting people. They're particular, maybe. But then you go there and you're like, these some odd ducks. Okay, see, but they're interesting people.

They're particular maybe. But you can be interesting and odd. They're odd ducks, bro. They are a little odd. I was there. I'm there with my wife. We were there for like two weeks

and I was like, wow, like, you're more odd than I thought. Did you ever consider that you're odd? Oh, I'm odd. To them. I'm odd.

To them. But to them? Like, that's what's so crazy. They are looking at me like you're odd. They're looking at. To them. That's what's so crazy. They're looking at us like, these people are fucking off. They're crazy. These motherfuckers are crazy. What? I do plenty of weird shit.

Americans in general are like, we stick out. He also is odd. He said it's the whites. You bite your toenails? I can't do it anymore because I'm older, but I did back in the day. I gave up on that habit. But you did it though.

No, I'm kidding. No, I was like, yeah, I used to do that. I'm just saying, the Japanese, we appreciate them. We love them. They make great video games. They make great technology. They make incredible food. The pancakes, the fluffy ones.

What is even going on there? Their integrity is incredible. They have great integrity and they take care of you. All that stuff is very clean. But there's also some oddities that we can appreciate as people who enjoy misfits.

I like misfits clearly. So I find it the Japanese are misfit, you guys are misfits. Look at you guys. We're just calling your friend ugly on a platform in front of millions of people. We're odd.

Dude, Mark isn't. Listen, the word odd is a negative connotation. I don't want you using it that way. It does, right? The way he uses it, the way I use it is great. You said it with love. He said it with a little bit of vitriol. It's vitriol.

Thank you. I'm talking about, yeah, odd is like it's a number thing. You know who loves numbers? Who? I'm not going to guess. Right. That was the layup? Was that not gonna guess right that was the layup was that the whole that was the layup right there that was it okay but shout out to japan we love you we appreciate you have you been to kyoto yes yeah it's incredible that place sucked

what dude it was too fucking Japanese about it. It sucked. But you know what's so interesting? I think for musicians, for me, a place can be boring or whatever. Not that Kyoto was. But I look at everywhere like, how fun would it be to make music there? So it's different. I was sitting on my balcony looking at a koi pond making beats.

So I'm like, this is fucking awesome. It's inspirational. Did you say it's what's called a ryukon or something like that? No, I said it's the Four Seasons in Kyoto. See, that's the thing. We had to go there for a massage. To the Four Seasons? Yeah, we had to go.

What'd you think? It's stunning. But we tried to be Japanese about it. We're like, we're going to stay in a ryukon. I tried to buy the diptyque hand wash. And they do sell it. That's the thing about the Four Seasons. They're like, we're going to stay in a Ryukon. I tried to buy the Diptyque hand wash. And they do sell it. That's the thing about the Four Seasons. They're fucking out. Here's the thing. I wanted to buy the Diptyque hand wash

from them. No, no, no. I went to Toronto. I'm like, God, I got to get this hand wash that I smelled. The Four Seasons in Kyoto. I'm in the Diptyque shop. And I'm like, yo, here's the picture. And they're like, oh, that's exclusive to the Four Seasons. Y'all got embargoes on hand wash? I'm in the diptych shop and I'm like, yo, here's the picture. And they're like, oh, that's exclusive to the Four Seasons.

Y'all got embargoes on Hanwha? That's crazy. I can't fucking buy the soap? Do you know you could buy the mattress? Oh, why the pillows? I didn't know you could buy the mattress. That's how nice the Four Seasons is. These rich motherfuckers are smart.

They monetize the linens. They're good at it. They might as well. We got a massage at the Ritz once. We't even stay there but we're like what are these sheets and then we went and bought those sheets from the spa not the hotel not where they sleep the way your face just laid on it you were like perfect i need this in my home perfect um but yeah yeah the kyoto thing my thing with the kyoto was like um i don't, it just felt like a version of Japan for tourists. You know, Kyoto used to be the capital. I didn't know that.

Yeah, I felt the opposite. I felt Tokyo was like, oh, this is tourists. Kyoto felt like I'm really amongst, I don't know. The actual people. Yeah, it felt a little bit more real. I'm not all jokes aside, you're going for different reasons. You're going for inspiration, you're going to visit. And not that inspiration won't strike you. No, honestly felt a little bit more authentic. I'm not all jokes aside. You're going for different reasons. You're going for inspiration. You're going to visit.

And not that inspiration won't strike you. Honestly, I'm going for both. I'm very much so on the fucking, let me get the guide. I want cultural immersion. That's why I went to Kyoto. And I was like, I want to feel what Japanese people felt at this time in history where the city is kind of locked in. You still see the, what are they called?

Geisha? Geisha. Girls walking down the street and shit like that. And I guess city is kind of locked in. Like you still see the, what are they called? Geisha? Geisha, girls walking down the street and shit like that. And I guess it's kind of cool. But there were certain things that I saw in Japan that I was like, wow, this is completely unique to Japan. You will see no other form of this anywhere else. And that, I mean, that cultural, that's just cultural shock that you experience when you're there is like something I've never experienced anywhere else.

I love it. It was crazy. And because it was odd or interesting, it was exciting to me. Yeah. But it was totally unique and different. And in order to get that, you can basically have nobody live there. Like, they don't let anybody move there. Nobody can become a citizen.

It is. Is that right? Yeah, bro. I mean, good for them. Even if you're born there, you're not Japanese. How does that work? Yeah, bro. I mean, good for them. Even if you're born there, you're not Japanese. How does that work? So what are you? Outsider, bro.

You're Korean. You're whatever. They keep it locked in. And then they have that kind of cultural, what is the word I'm looking for? Homogeny? And it was spectacular. The food was amazing. But they were so unbelievably different.

Yeah. Where I haven't experienced that level of difference. Like, you go to the Middle East. Like, yeah, there's cultural differences. But, like, there's just kind of, like, an awareness of how we all act. And they're so educated abroad that they know how Americans are. So they know they're aware. Bro, you go to Japan.

Where have you been in the Middle East? Dubai? Just Dubai and Abu Dhabi. Oh, yeah. You got it. Like, to me, I love Dubai and Abu Dhabi. Oh, yeah. You got it. Like, to me, I love Dubai and Abu Dhabi. Well, you've been to Egypt and Morocco. Well, Egypt is Africa.

I can say Egypt, Africa. You got to go to, like, fucking... But I did Egypt and I did Jerusalem. Jordan. Yeah. Like, to me, traveling, because I'm, like, at my core was such a judgmental person. Yes. You know what I mean?

So judgmental. Because I grew up, like, my dad's from Jersey. My mom's from Long Island. Oh, yeah. Loud Italians. Shit-talking Italians. Like, just grew up, like, judging. Yeah.

That's just par for the course. Yeah. And traveling has been, it's given me the capacity to deploy empathy for shit I don't get. Like, for example? Just, like, in general. Just, like, oh, they do things different. That's cool. But that's why we go,

to see the different things. And that's, it's exactly why, like I just got back from Marrakesh. Oh, amazing. Incredible. Was in Saudi,

and it's just like, just everywhere I go, I'm just trying to do what they do. Let's talk about Marrakesh. I love Marrakesh. Where'd you stay? The Shuk or whatever?

First time I was at the Royal Mansour. Second time, this time I was at the Royal Mansour. Second time, this time, I was at the Amman. Okay. Wow. Crazy. Yeah, Amman is nuts. Amman is the best.

Yeah. It's incredible. But did you go into the Shuk? Did you? Of course, yeah. We did the whole thing, and then we rode ATVs in the desert. How many rogues did you buy, to be honest? Did they get you?

Bro, so here's the funny thing. If y'all are watching Marrakesh, I don't understand what's going on, right? When I stayed at the Royal Mansour in 2019, you set up the guy, because I'm like, look, I want to just go around to the authentic places. So they take you into like the big square, the Medina, and they take you to the rug shop and the furniture shop. And it was awesome. First time I was there, I bought a shit ton of rugs, bought furniture. Cool. Come back this time.

Same thing. I'm like, give me a guy. It's a's a different hotel we go into the medina we do the big square he's like i know the best rug shop takes me to the same rug shop we walk in i'm like i feel like i've been here before yeah dude comes out he's like my friend it's like and of course i bought a rug i was not trying to buy a rug but i buy a rug yeah my pictures on the wall and then he's like afterwards he's like i'll take you to the best furniture store we go to the same furniture store wait a second all right hold on now moroccan what sort of like are we all in just cahoots yes yes and and you know what's tough for me is like i guess when you travel you want to least for me, I want to feel like I'm getting the authentic experience.

I don't want to do the touristy shit. Getting scammed is the authentic experience to us. Well, I'll say this. It's what I was telling my dad. It's like, you know what? Is that because the guys are telling you, look, 80% of the shit in the square is from Bangladesh, India, and China. Yep. Right?

I'll take you to the best one. They take you to the same one that four years ago they took you to. I'm like, look, maybe this is fake. Maybe that's real. But you know what? I bought it in Marrakesh. What you really paying for? He beats the music industry and then gets hustled by it.

It's okay. We all went for the France. You're putting your trust In them Yeah And if you don't believe That this dude

Is telling you the truth They're the label They're the label We need nine grand Up front We'll send you the rug So here's the reality They're all made in Bangladesh

I mean I wouldn't be surprised But But I think you're going there I bought them in Morocco You bought them in Morocco We saw them But I also

The way I look at it Is like I'm not here For where the rug is made. I'm here for the dance. The guy's telling me 800. Then I'm like, oh, I can't do it. Let's do four. I'm going to give him 800 no matter what.

I was going to give him nine. Exactly. I want him to make the money, but I understand that he likes his dance. And this dance has existed for thousands of years. Morocco, old culture. And you get to take part in this dance. To me, that's the authentic experience. Where the fuck is the rug?

Can I get you a tea? Him setting you up for this rope-a-dope, you're like, oh, this is amazing. This culture has thrived like this. I know you're finessing me, and I love every minute of it. Remember when we went in the store, the guy was breaking up little pieces of crystal and telling us this is going to give you a boner, this is gonna do that.

It's salt. Yeah. And then boom, boner. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All day, all day. Salt. Okay, where else? What was one of the dopest spots that you went to that was completely unexpected?

Lake Lucerne. In Switzerland? Yes. Okay. What's it called? Hotel Witznau. It looks like a Bob Ross painting. That's the best way to describe it.

You're sitting there. It's on this lake. It's the trees that Bob Ross drew. It's the fucking lake with the perfect little ripples. And it's just like, it's's so serene there's nothing to do but go to the spa and relax and look at your surroundings in the lake you jump in the lake you get out your skin i don't know if you ever touched a dolphin but you feel like a dolphin why it's just so smooth it's like the water is like holy and blessed i don't even i don't get it

but it's it was just so serene and peaceful. It was one of those moments where you're like, this is what eyes were made for, was to look at this. Lake Lucerne, the Amalfi Coast is insane. But yeah, man, Lake Lucerne was just, I don't know. Amalfi's one of those

places that's popular, and then you go, and you're just like, I don't give a fuck. I get it. I get it. You know what else I get is Santorini. Oh, Santorini, Greece. Because Santorini is one of those places where it's like nowhere else in the world looks like that. Yeah. You go to a lot of cities in Europe, and I love all these cities, Paris, London, Amsterdam, Berlin, Brussels. It's like it all sort of kind, jumbles together at a certain point.

You go to Santorini, you're like, where the fuck am I? It looks like I'm inside the postcard. Yeah, exactly. And I remember thinking about Greek mythology. This part was actually in Athens, but the Temple of Poseidon, you're looking over the water, it's similar to Santorini. And you're like, oh, I completely understand thinking there had to be a god for just this. Right. There is a god for just water, because look at what I'm looking at.

Look at it. Right. There's no other way around it. No, it's incredible. I'm kind of being emulfy. And I think we were talking about that. Yes. You were in Santorini.

And it's like, I get why people from certain places don't believe in God because you don't have this. Right. You're looking at dog shit. You know what I mean? have this right like you're looking at dog shit you know what i mean like if you're an atheist in cleveland i get it you know what i mean but you can't be an atheist in a mall because you're looking at this in cleveland is crazy yeah because i'm not judging you because you're looking at a smokestack right but in a mall fee you're like no only god could create something like this yeah in san terino same thing you know what this reminds me of that like I dreamed of

having conversations like these yeah I remember like I went to T.I.'s manager's house with Boogus like 2014-15 and it was me Boogus Jason Jeter oh Jason it was me Boogus Jason Jeter and Killer Mike and we were sitting in Jason's like cigar room and I like I had no fans no money and we're sitting there and Killer Mike and Jason are just talking about like yo Croatia and I remember just sitting there like I don't fucking know and I remember going home and telling my mom like whoa like it was crazy they were talking about Croatiaatia and me and her talked about because her love one of her loves is travel too and i remember me and her talking about like can you imagine what that would be like to be able to sit around and talk about have you have you uh sent her around

did you send her she comes with every single time hell yeah like she didn't come to saudi this time or marrakesh she's already been real you know what I mean? So it's like, yeah, bro, because to me, I dreamed of this shit. And the fact that I've gone down the rabbit hole before of I want to see my bank balance have more in it. But then I did the second step of that question, which is why. And when you get to the why, it gets confronting because it's like what's the why the why was well so that i have more money and then it's like but why oh i guess no reason you know what i mean so then that's when i started just being like bro you know what like i'm making the money to and this is a quote my mom gave me, if you have the ability to change somebody's reality, do it.

And I just use money to change my reality and people I love's reality. So I use money to just do fucking epic travel shit with my family and everyone I fuck with. Amen. That's it. Because it's like, yeah, bro, like, I could show you the fucking tax document, whatever. I've made, and this is three years ago, so it's more than that, but three, four years ago, I had grossed 50 mil. Gross?

This is before you have to pay out people? Grossed. Grossed 50 mil. So I've made, like I had made that much spent fucking 49 you know what i'm saying you know what i mean because it's like what else am i doing with it yeah like i feel like i feel like the culture of like stack is so uh it's just you have no connection with the present. You're saving for what? Like a lot of people don't reverse engineer the lifestyle they want.

I always tell people, look, instead of just being like, I want to be rich, that's too vague and it's not specific. What do you want? Specifically, what house do you want? What car do you want? What kind of life do you want to live? How much does all that cost? Now reverse engineer it.

Now all of a sudden you don't need a billion. You need two mil or you need 500 grand or whatever. So like for me, I do that all the time with myself where I'm like, do I want more money? Yeah, cause I'm ambitious. And I like seeing the numbers go up on a screen cause it's like a video game. But realistically, it's like me and my business managers

talk about all the time. It's like the big purchases are out of the way. Everyone got a spot. You got the house. Everyone has a car. Everyone has a spot. So it's like, now I'm just on some like, bro, I'm just trying to go places and do ill shit.

Like we were just in Marrakesh just because. Like my dad fell off a camel. It's awesome. That's a high fall. You know what I'm saying? It was on the way down. But it's just like doing shit like that, like for no other reason than being able to log it in your memory bank. That's, to me, that's the only reason why I'm doing this shit.

A wealth of experiences. That's it, bro, because all this shit is just like it's one big facade that people are just, I feel like me included was chasing such like approval and validation and like travel is for you travel travel stacking money is for them right right because who is it impressing right well you know you know who it's impressing it's impressing the perception of what i think i should be exactly like that's in the eyes of i should what i've made 50 mil. I should have 48. It's like, you could have had 48,

but guess what you couldn't have had? Is the trip to there, the trip to there, the trip. And I think about that shit all the time. It's like someone, you know, I said it on a song. It's like, some, like, you may be richer, but have you ever left the country? You know what I'm saying? It's like, so how rich are you?

I feel so rich in experiences. There's that parable. You know what I'm saying? My mom has been, no lie, around the world two, three times. Around the world. Like everywhere. Documented. She's seen everywhere.

And it's like, what else, what else dog i'm gonna probably bastardize you but there's that parable about the guy fishing and then somebody comes up to him and he's like oh i know exactly bro that please tell a story for the cameras you can probably tell me better than me so you go you can because the guy sees another guy fishing and he's just like so what do you do i you know i'm an investment banker whatever the fuck he is and the guy's like oh i just sit here and fish and that's and he's like what that's how you make your entire living he's like yeah right what's wrong with that and the guy's like no man you need to like fish you need to like sell fish open a market then maybe open an online e-commerce thing then you can try to make money they can hire employees

then he goes through step after step after step and then the guy's like okay then what happens that goes then you can just sit there and fish and the guy's like that's what i'm doing right now and that's it bro that's it it's like because i've heard Bro, that's it. It's like, because I've heard that, and it's so true. It's like, bro, I sit at home, and I make music. And money, it's mailbox money. I get paid every Friday since I was fucking 18. So it's like, this is it. All right, guys, we're going to take a break real quick because we got to talk about your health.

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you're going to get 20% off. That is L-I-V-E-M-O-M-E-N-T-O-U-S.com slash flagrant for 20% off. Now let's get back to the show. So outside of music and traveling, what excites you right now? Like these guys have gotten into playing paddle. Oh, my God. You guys are paddle ball. Pickle ball.

Not pickle ball. No, don't say pickle. These two. We're going to bring you and play some paddle. I went on a walk yesterday. It's 6 a.m. I see a bunch of people playing pickleball. Old people.

I'm like, get on the basketball court. No, but I get it. No, what excites me, honestly, is I've had to shift my trophy. And I talk about this on the album. I'm talking about it in my second book. It's like the pursuit for me now is just progress. That's what it has to be. What is progress?

Progress is perpetual. It's forever. Emotional progress. How do you define progress? Everything. What's the parameter? You run down the categories. Physically, I want to be stronger.

I want to be healthier. Mentally, I want to be more disciplined. Musically, I want to make something that I love even more than what I did yesterday Yeah, you know and it's to me. It's things that are in my control that Don't rely on the approval of anyone else but myself and I got into a bad bad space and not to say that I'm out of it, but I got into a bad space where like the metric for me was if other people approved what I was doing. Yeah. And that's a bad place to be.

Because you live and die by the booze and the cheers, you know. Yeah. And yeah, for me, like what excites me now, bro, is just honestly being present and progress. Like waking up at eight and going to the gym by 9. And by 10, I'm in the studio. And by 11, I've made a song. And by 12, I'm doing a call about a book I'm putting out. And by 1, I'm on the couch with my girl and my two dogs.

And my mom's swimming in my pool in the backyard. And like, that's it. Like that to me, that's it. Yeah. There's this guy, Naval, I forget his name. Harari. No, no, no. You were telling me about him.

He's an India dude actually, but he's like an investment guy. He's made billions of dollars, but he had these three like mantras that distills, I think all of this. And I've been thinking about it a lot recently. And he was like the three endogenous indicators of happiness. Everything else can, you know, like marginally raise it or lower it but the three biggest indicators and the words he uses are precise and i really like them he said a calm mind wow not sharper not quicker not doing more shit but calm calm mind yeah fit body house full of love he's like if you get those three things wow genuinely everything else i love that everything else

is kind of like little little parameters that can kind of tweak it but those three things across any culture any society any individual is going to be the biggest indicator i really hope that everyone watching this fucking hears that because that to me that's the epitome of what people should be chasing and that's what that's what santiago is about that's what the second book is about because all those things you said have nothing to do with anyone else it has everything to do with things that we're in control of and it's just yeah bro that's it that's it everything else falls into place you know it really does that's what i've noticed it's like if i'm good mentally physically physically, spiritually, whatever, bro.

I don't think therapy's worked on anybody faster than it's worked on you. It's actually really remarkable. I think because I needed it and I wanted it so bad. Yeah. And I committed to it because I really, for years, and I would like trickle it in songs like, I should probably get a therapist. It's like, five years later, still no therapist. What are you doing? But yeah, I really probably get a therapist. It's like, five years later, still no therapist. What are you doing? But, yeah, I really did want help.

And it's so much deeper than just, like, the connotation of therapy. You know, it's really like a spiritual mentor. Because the guy I talked to, he's not even a licensed therapist. He's just a fucking guru. He's a wise dude. Yeah. And it's just, I don't know, man,

haven't like, not to get cliche, but being men, it's tough to, to feel one comfortable being vulnerable with things you're struggling with to, to even like have somebody that you could talk to, because to your parents,

that might feel like, you know, they're going to feel guilty because somehow they'll make it about them. To your friends, they're like, I don't fucking know. But to like, just get over it. And I got my own shit going on. Yeah. You're doing better than me. Yeah, like have you tried getting over it?

You try not being a bitch. You know what I mean? What did you say in another podcast? You said the measure of a man is how far he can... So that's something that my mentor told me. He said, you know, society measures a man by how much can you carry, how far can you carry it,

and how alone can you carry it. And it's so real. And I think just subconsciously, that's kind of how men move throughout society. Is, you know, not to get fake deep, but when people ask me, oh, how you doing? It's like, can't complain.

But when you really read into that, it's like, can't complain can't complain yeah i can't i'm in a position where i can't yeah like you can't because we have not allowed ourselves the space to even give ourselves empathy because we don't feel like it's a safe space with other men to be like you know what i'm going through something right now you know it's fucked up we also don't want to it's a safe space with other men to be like, you know what? I'm going through something right now. It's fucked up. We also don't want to put that on the people we love, too. Yeah, well, because we're men and we got to shoulder it and fucking brush the dirt off and move forward. You don't want your girl to worry.

You don't want your mom to worry. You don't want all the people that rely on you to worry. You want them to know that they're going to be good and they're good when you're good. Right. So you're like, all right, I got to hold this. And then you meet somebody you can talk to about it and you're like, oh, it feels great to talk to you to worry. You want them to know that they're going to be good and they're good when you're good. So you're like, all right, I got to hold this. And then you meet somebody you could talk to about it and you're like, oh, it feels great to talk to you about it because these people are all going to be safe, but I get this off my chest. And there's no judgment from their end. And what I learned through talking with him is when you resist, resisting insecurities leads to self-implosion and that to me was so true it's like you know

whether it was interviews or meetings or just in general it's like me resisting the feeling of like you know what i'm nervous like i was nervous coming on here yeah right and if i would have tried to like overcompensate that that would have led to maybe really like self-destructive like outbursts, you know? Or just in general, not on camera. And it's like, when you resist

what you're actually feeling, which is what men do, it's what we've been trained to do because you push down, push down, it's going to come out sideways at some point, at a time where you don't want it to come out.

What's that quote? Everything you want is through the door you wish not to enter the most or something right there's this quote about like everything you desire is through the thing that you're on the other side of what you fear the most is on the other side of what you fear the most yeah and uh and it is true and also like you get into a place of comfort which is is, like, is privileged, but it can also be a prison. And, like, you don't have to do an interview. You don't have to do anything you don't want anymore. Right.

And now you're in the position where you can avoid those things you fear, but what is on the other side of those things you fear is exactly what you want. I know. And you know what? For me, this is, like, a thing I've, like, set as a goal is, like, the year of just doing hard shit. Because, like you said, i don't have to talk to anyone ever again and you're good and i'm fine but it's like guess what but i want more and i'm ambitious and i want to express myself in different mediums than just music so guess what that means you gotta do the podcast you should do the podcast you fuck with schultz you like his brand

it's a good place for you to express yourself and be honest. But yeah, it's confronting because now you've got to be yourself and people are watching. You're putting yourself out there for judgment. You can't control it as much. You can't control it. So it's scary. And like you said, because I'm good, I could just be like, what? I'm at the house.

I was just in Saudi, the Americas. I could have just gone home. I miss my dogs. I miss my bed. But it. Like, I was just in Saudi, the Americas. I could have just gone home. Yeah. You know? Like, I miss my dogs. I miss my bed. Yeah. But it's like, nah, bro. I have to do the hard shit. And then there's a joy that comes from that.

Yeah. There's also, like, a fulfillment of purpose that comes from it. Because you're like, oh, shit. I was scared, and then I did it. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's weird, like, because that is, I guess.

On the other side of fear is strength. Yeah. And so that is the thing like when it comes to like money or stacking whatever these things are i think that like like i have no aspiration to be a billionaire like that not the the sound of it is like okay if it's cool and i don't give a fuck i just don't care like it doesn't mean anything to me right but i do have an aspiration of having enough money where every decision i make is because i want to make it right is because i want to make

it right not because i have to right now we're privileged enough like we're the luckiest people on the fucking face of the universe we get to do shit that is so much fun for a living like this is a joke it's even a job right right it's crazy look what we're doing it's a joke this is insane it's absurd we're in a random building in new york we set up cameras to make it seem like we're doing something. There's fake bricks here. These are not even real. No, it's insane. Dope combos, though. But see, that's really what it's about.

Exactly. One of the things is, we're very fortunate that through stand-up and all these different things, through music for you, you've been able to do a thing that you truly love to make a living. There is another level, which you might be at, I don't want to count your pockets, where it's like, you actually don't have to do anything anymore. Your family's good, you're good,

and everything you do is because you want to do it. Now, what you just described to me, I didn't even foresee, which is when you don't have to do anything, you will have greater hesitation with the things that you fear to do. Yes. I didn't even think about that. Well, because for a long time, I've been at where you're talking about where it's like, I don't have to do any of this. And you're good.

Because I've had the mailbox. I've been getting paid every Friday. You're going to be fine. So it's like, I know I've been financially secure for a long time. Now, like you just said, I've never heard it like that. Now it makes you really analyze the

things you don't want to do because you're like, wait a second. You've got to do that uncomfortable interview because you're like, I want to push this album. I want people to see my work. I put a lot of effort into this, so I'm going to put myself in this vulnerable situation because there is upside and I have to risk that downside for that upside. Yeah, you can't hide from fear if you're not rich. Right.

And that makes me think of the mega artists that do the mysterious thing, and I'm wondering. Are you mysterious? Or are you just a little bit afraid? Like the Kendricks or the Travises, you never see them. They're just good. They're just like, they're fine. Maybe they're afraid. But maybe they're afraid.

But it's like, yeah, I know for me, it's just kind of like, I don't have to do these things, but I want to do them because at this point, I'm just being driven by the fact that I'm scared to do them. You know what I mean? But that's because your goal is personal growth. If your goal is like money, then you're like, no, I'm not i'm not gonna do this i'm gonna make more music exactly yeah and that's a how do you gauge how much you show the world because like you're very vulnerable in your music but then like you know social media just like surface level stuff like even right now right

it's like i have nothing to push yeah we can make up things like i have a song coming out in two days i don't give a fuck if we even we don't have to talk about any of that i got a hair care i got all i don't give a shit this is clever right here no no no no no but truthfully it's, I genuinely wanted to come on here as an exercise in like, do the hard shit. It has nothing to do with any of that because I've learned that all of these extraterrestrial things don't sell your music. I'll never forget. And this is no shot at Tyga. I love Tyga. I remember 10, 12 years ago.

I don't know when the fuck it was kim kardashian posted like a taiga mixtape i remember we're on the come up so we're studying everything and we're like damn kim posting the mixtape didn't even like really matter it didn't like move the needle yeah and you know certain things you just remember on your come up and so forever we're just like yeah yeah, it just doesn't matter. Like Kanye right now could post me on his Instagram, like go listen to Santiago. It's not going to like,

for 24 hours it'll be like, whoa. Nah, but if he posted it with a picture next to that milk factory he got walking around with. Nah, but it's like, I'm telling you, bro. I'm telling you. Some needles being moved.

It doesn't, the internet's so fast it doesn't matter the only shit that matters is like real actual human consistent connection and so for me yeah it's like I don't have to do any of this I don't care about promoting anything because

I'm not entitled to your platform to promote my shit so I know I have my platform my fans know what's going on. I got a community. Y'all know what's up, cool. I want to come on here because I fuck with you. I want to talk to y'all. And like I said, it's an exercise in like,

bro, do the hard shit. This is like training my brain to do a cold plunge. So see what I'm saying? Like this is the cold plunge. Selfish followup. I know you talked about all I want is growth. And even in your music, all you want is growth and even in your music all you want is growth i was listening to a podcast where he talks this guy works with like

high level like athletes investors whatever and he talks about the people who excel the tiger woods types yeah they don't perform for ego reasons they don't do what they do for ego reasons a lot of us do and that's why like embarrassment like bombing on stage as a comedian is so fucking embarrassing because you're having an album flop maybe he talks about basketball players a lot of times like they don't want to miss free throws. It's just embarrassment. And that really hinders your growth if you're doing it for your ego, because the ego is like, well, I don't want to get embarrassed.

Right. The people who are the best of the best are in it just for mastery. And that's all they care about. Yeah. How do you, based on what I've researched from you, listened to with Santiago, you were ego initially, and now it's mastery. How do you uncouple yours? Because I'm in the process of trying to let go. It's not that black and white. It's still a little bit of both. But I'm in the process of shifting the trophy from ego to self-mastery. That's part of the

work that I've been doing. and that's what Santiago's about, which is why the album ends on me singing It Was You All Along. I love that. It's because it's like, everything you've been chasing is you. Yeah. You've been chasing yourself. You're chasing your tail this whole time.

Yeah. And self-mastery is the, in my opinion, it's the only thing worth going after because it's a game we can all play. It's a trophy we can all win. And it doesn't matter who else is playing. We can all win it.

It's a weird thing, though. Sometimes, like, having money allows you to reflect long enough to realize what you truly wanted the whole time. Right. People who don't have that, they're trying to— They think that money's the answer. Because in the moment, it is the answer to their rent. It's the answer to their food, taking care of their family. Well, it's the three basic, like, shelter, food, water.

Exactly. It's like, I can't think past that until those are covered. Exactly. But it's like the Jim Carrey commencement speech he gave. He's like, it's not this verbatim, but it's like, I wish everyone was rich and famous so they could figure out what they really want exactly he's right though it's the truth it's like everyone and i don't blame people because i get it because like you said it's like we don't have shelter food or water yep right but it's like i wish everyone could get their money and get their

shit straight and then you'd really see what you actually want it's important to position it in that way because i know that there's probably people who watch and listen to hear they hear people say these things and they're just like, man, shut the fuck up. You got everything. Right. And it seems almost like condescending when it's said. But there is a lot of game in there. There's so much, bro.

And I like how Jim said it where it's just like I can't wait for you to have all that money so that you start tapping away at the end of the game. And what's so funny is we talk about Jim Carrey as a manifestation example where he wrote a $20 million check to himself when he was broke, and then he got paid $20 million for, I think, Ace Ventura 2. But nobody leaves out the part where he goes, you know, he still wasn't happy after that. That's a really interesting thing.

Well, because it's like, to his point, it's like you realize what you actually want. Yeah, what makes you happy? Is it creating things you're proud of? Or is it the people clapping? Well, the reality for me, right, to what you were saying with Santiago, it's like I got plaques and money and all this shit. And there was a hole still. And the hole was the fact that I didn't approve of myself.

So it didn't matter that the plaques were approval. They were signs of validation. All these symbols of success, sold out shows, plaques, money, they're just symbols of success. Real success, it's an inside job. It's do you approve of yourself? And I did it. And the reason why is because at a very, very young age, like most boys, your metric of success is your dad's approval. And for me, my dad's standard was perfection, an unmeetable goal.

quite the standard. And as you grow up, my dad's voice became my own voice. And so his metric became my metric, which ended up being, I'm not good enough for myself no matter what I do. Because it's not perfect. And so... And it's a great motivator. It's a great motivator. Oh, because you know why? Because guess what?

Yeah, you went platinum. Why didn't you go two? And so you'll keep succeeding. And from the outside looking in, it's like, damn, Russ, your work ethic's crazy. It's like, if only you knew what was driving the car. Yeah. Yeah. Like, this is not a good energy driving the car.

What do you tell your managers? This is my shadow. This is my shame self. Behind the driver's seat, I'm just like the little boy in the passenger seat the shame is driving like you fucking loser so i gotta get us all the way to double because you couldn't right so what do you do and what do you do to make that shift like are there active steps you're taking writing affirmations yeah the act the active steps are first of all like and i think this goes overlooked step Step one is awareness.

Just even being aware that you're doing what you're doing. I just wasn't even aware that that's what I was doing, that that was my process. So like step one is awareness. Step two is starting to, yeah, it's to modify the process. It's to sort of, it's to interfere the negative self-talk. It's to catch it. So when that shame and that shadow pops up and is like not good enough, you got to tell yourself and tell that version of yourself, yo, chill. Like I hear you.

I know you just want the best, but we're not doing it like that anymore. But the first step is awareness. And a lot of people, me included, are just not even aware that I was like moving like that. Yeah. I thought it was all positive positive i'm looking at my life i'm like plaques money right i'm i'm doing pretty good you know everything i'm doing must be right especially when no one else around you is at the level you're at you feel like you must be doing something right that also like the average person you know i mean they all think you're doing something right right and so they're not going to tell you

they don't want to help you well well they want to help you but they don't know how because it's like it's working it's working so i don't know bro it's like shit all that keep doing what you're doing yeah and keep in mind you know how many many times you dap somebody up as a successful person and they just say, keep doing what you're doing. It's like, nah. It's not sustainable.

I'm still angry. I'm still anxious. No, it's not sustainable because at some point you burn out. You know what I mean? And I talk about it in the book and I talk about it

with my mentor, but it's like dark motivation versus light motivation. And I was just driven by dark motivation, which is like fear-based. Like I need to prove to everyone that I'm really who I am and who I think I am. And it's all this like it's very combative, and it's making enemies out of people and entities that don't even know they're enemies.

Yeah. It's not even real. We've said it on here before, and it's like I think we're just doing it wrong here. This American capitalist chasing after it. You go to these older societies in Europe where it's like, they get it. They get it. They had the calm mind, the love in the home,

the fit body. They got it already. There's less ambition for sure. There is less ambition. And happiness. And an American will go over there and be like, how are you happy? You're all losers. Like broke boys. Look at your life. Brokey. and an American will go over there and be like, how were you happy?

You're all losers. Broke boys? Look at your life. Brokey. I lived in Spain for a year and I was living on like 10 euros a day. Five of those euros were spent to get into a club

and I got a beer with the entrance fee. So the other five were like putting together the meal. We were cooking the Spanish tortilla. It was just great. We were living the meal. We were cooking fucking the Spanish tortilla. It was just great. We were living broke together. We were playing basketball and it was awesome. And I remember having this moment there where I was like, man, I could do this forever.

And I had to stop myself and be like, hold on. No, you got to go achieve things. You got to go do things. You got to go back and finish college. And I'm glad that I did. But to what you were saying was I was at such peace with my life and with my friends and doing the things I wanted to do. It was something that I hadn't experienced in the same level back home. And you were fishing already.

That's what I'm saying. Yeah, I was fishing, but I'm glad that I was able to go and chase success here. Because I think sometimes the sacrifice that you make when you have a society or a culture that's built around that, which sometimes they can scrutinize ambition. And the people that aren't cool just fishing, they want to go fish in the deep sea. The people that just fish and start going, Wyatt, you think you're better than us? What do you need that for?

Yeah, and sometimes you don't think you're better than them. You just really want to see what fishing in the deep sea is about. You just want to challenge yourself. For you. Yeah, for you. And if you're doing it for you, I do want to see what fishing in the deep sea is about. You just want to challenge yourself. For you. Yeah, for you. And if you're doing it for you, I do think that that is valuable. No, I love that.

Absolutely. I think everything should be for you. That's the whole key. But figuring out what that is. That's the being in pursuit of progress. It's like, I've already caught the fish in this spot. Can I catch a fish in the ocean? That's why for me it's like sometimes people get

confused when they're like, well, why do you still want a Grammy? Well, because I don't have one. And that's progress. I don't want it so that y'all clap for me. I just want it to see progress. That's it. But you see that as a form of validation? No, no, no. It's not validation.

It's more so it's a confirmation that progress has been had in a certain category. It's less about, see now, the intention is everything. If the intention behind it is, you know what? I want a Grammy because if I get a Grammy, y'all will fuck with me more. Now there's a negative intention around it. You're going to get the Grammy and still be miserable because you don't improve yourself. If I can poke a hole, it is still progress that is decided. It's other people deciding you've made progress. It's progress that's completely externally validated.

Out of your control. Right. Externally validated specifically. Yes. And you know what's so funny about that is when Santiago came out and Billboard took away sales and I was so fucking pissed. Wait, why'd they do that? Complete horseshit. Because you're

not allowed to, this is Billboard's rules, not even a lie, you can look it up on the internet. Billboard says you are not allowed to incentivize fans to buy albums. You know what that is? What do you mean? Marketing. Incentivize fans to buy albums is marketing.

It's literally in the rules. Luminate is the company that verifies the sales for billboard they're owned by the same company right so i'm like okay that's insane because you are allowing fake streams yeah and merch bundles how does a merch bundle not incentivize what was your incentive my incentive was if you buy a fucking album you maybe get invited to a desert listening. Whatever it is. That's incredible marketing. Why am I not allowed to market?

A bundle is a tangible thing that every single person gets. A bundle is incentivizing fans to buy an album. So they took away sales. Real sales while allowing fake sales. And I remember hitting my mentor. I'm like, bro, this is such bullshit. They're taking away my progress. And he said, no. They're taking away the external knowing of your progress. But they can never take away your internal knowing of your progress.

And I thought that was really profound. And to your point with the Grammys, he's like, yeah, that is out of my control, which is why I can't place too much. I can't personalize it too much. Fair enough. But there is something valuable about having a mountain to climb. Yes. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, it's ambition, purpose.

Yeah, so it's a good mountain to climb, but depersonalize it. So just to clarify. I won't take it personally when this doesn't get nominated for a Grammy or whatever. Is it an absolutely okay mountain to have if you just want to see progress? Sure. Okay. But don't personalize it to the point that well if i don't get it then i'm a failure but so just to clarify the album itself represents

the progress correct not the sales not whether the fact that i made it the fact that you made the fact that i made it yeah that's the thing that i always tell people it's like certain certain songs it's like bro this song was already a success before it went out yeah because i made what i wanted to make yeah i already won but when the thing that you want to make receives an amazing response it's a double win euphoric feeling oh yeah because you feel like your artistic integrity is intact and the people are appreciating you for your most authentic self that's the fucking no it's incredible it's incredible what song on this album was your biggest win without just by putting it out i love you boy yeah i remember you saying that was really

hard to write yeah i mean that was the one where you know the whole album was me doing sessions with with my mentor and him giving me exercises because you know i don't even lie't even lie, the first session we did, I felt bad. Because I was like, man, the whole time you're talking, and I told him that, I said, the whole time you're talking, I'm thinking of songs. I can write about this shit. And I felt bad. I felt like I was like almost using the situation.

And he was like, no, no, no, no, no. Allow the creative side of you to come along for the journey. You know, and I learned that the creative part of me is sort of the part of me that tries to make sense of all the other parts of me. So he would give me these exercises and he would never say write a song. He would just journal.

He said, you can journal in the form of a journal, a poem, a song, lyrics, whatever you want. Of course, naturally, I'm always gonna revert to the medium that he's most familiar with. So, so many times we would do a session on zoom and i would do all the sessions in the studio right next to the mic because it just feels safe for me and i'd get off the session and go right onto the mic and that was i love you boy i love you boy was like the exercise was i want you to journal and give your inner child the empathy that you wish you got when you were a kid.

And that was, I Love You Boy. And to me, it's the hardest song I had to write because I had to be, I had to be honest about feeling embarrassed about certain moments of my career, like in an interview where I drank too much and I said ridiculous shit or you know just whatever and it was like damn man like just having to be honest like you know what i think it gets

way more vulnerable than that you fucked up oh no it's way more but it's like great self-reflection just just having to confront things that i've never had to confront and be honest with like what you want yeah what you did want before what i wanted were embarrassed of that what i want and Having to confront things that I've never had to confront and be honest with like. What you want. Yeah. What you did want before. What I want. A lot of times we're embarrassed of that. What I want and what happened and yeah, the shame.

Yeah. The shame that's attached to wanting something to happen so bad and wanting to be this perfect version of yourself. And you didn't hit the mark all the time. And having to be honest with yourself like, yeah, you know what? You did fuck up. But you don't need to beat yourself to fuck up like give yourself perpetual punishment and that's what i've done to myself is like do that well you would if you're a perfectionist if that was put on you yeah if it's not perfect exactly then it's exactly and so now you see the connection which

is why i put out this on perfectionist because it's like that perpetual punishment comes from being a perfectionist because it's like, you know what? You fucked up and that was then. But this is now and I'm going to let you know that you really fucked this up for us. How would you think? Oh, sorry. Being this vulnerable and putting that much substance in your music, I was just curious. How did you feel about when most defs said Drake is surface level target music?

Because I feel like this is the thing. That's one of those things people have been asking of Drake for quite a while. Like, yeah, yo, we want to know more about you. Like what's going on. One.

I think Drake has that in his music too. I think the world is entitled. I think the world is entitled. Naturally. I think social media has made people very entitled because we see your instagram sometimes we wake up with you and we go to sleep with you and it gives us this this parasocial the world what is that term where it's like a social relationship yeah it's just this weird like where we're best friends even though we don't actually fucking know you and we

expect all these you know um entrances into your life and it's like yo we don't know you you don't actually fucking know you and we expect all these you know um entrances into your life and it's like yo we don't know you you don't owe us anything that you don't want to give us and social media has ruined that social media has made people feel like we are entitled to know the ins and outs of your thought process on any and everything that has to do with you and if you don't give it to us we feel like like you're bullshitting, fake, you're this. And it's like, bro, these people are artists and they give you what they want to give you. And if you don't fuck with it, next song.

You know what I'm saying? But it's like, I feel like one, Drake has that depth. Yeah, how would you break down hip hop? What is hip hop? Because most definitely saying that's not hip hop. I would think that's hip hop, but. I think, I mean, the way I got introduced to hip-hop was like it's intelligent movement that's what it is so i understand the um the perspective of like you want there to be some sort of intelligence behind

the lyrics and not just sort of filler and fluff but the reality is like shit changes and disclaimer i'm not in any position to speak on what is and what isn't hip-hop because i'm white straight up but um you're still a hip-hop artist yeah but the but the reality is well i'm ushered i'm my guest he gave me like a plus one i was the the plus one. You got a pass? Yeah. Not that pass. You got a different pass. I got the plus one pass. I'm like, at any given moment, all the plus ones get out. No, but yeah, it's like I think hip hop went from counterculture and underground to it's the most popular shit in the world.

So naturally, it went from people doing hip-hop to express and rebel to make money. And Jay-Z talks about it in his Breakfast Club where there was a shift that happened where hip-hop became a get-rich-quick scheme. And rap became a get-rich-quick scheme. And when that happened, of course you're going to lose the art because people aren't doing it for the art anymore. They're doing it for the bag so it's like once you realize that once again it's just it's just letting go of the resistance it's like look if i can just accept the fact that this shit got so big which was the goal that it's now become a plausible financial scheme okay well now i have to accept that there's going to be some people who are not doing it for the art, they're doing

it for the bag. And what a great place that, you know, we've gotten hip-hop and rap to a place where it's so lucrative that people don't even have to be about it for the art. They're there for the money. They're there for the money, and there's still a bag in it. And I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that is the,

it just comes with the dinner. You know what I'm saying? It's like. And that's not just hip hop. That's anything that gets popular. Of course. You're oftentimes shackled to the bag. And then once you find something that's lucrative and it provides a living for yourself. Yeah. A lot of people don't want to move away from that.

There's comfort from that. Of course. It's also on the people, bro. This whole fucking notion, it's so irritating. It's like, can we stop acting like there's this big fucking ploy to only push a certain kind of music? The truth is more boring. The truth is more boring. It's always more boring. Here's what the truth is.

The truth is, in general, society is attracted to negativity more than positivity. Yeah. Period. Yeah yeah so guess what negative music glorifying negative behaviors and lifestyles will always feel a little sexier because it's a little more dangerous danger than peace love and prosperity you know what i'm saying we're drawn to danger that's just what it is that's just what it is. That's just what it is. And I mean. If you're in a forest and you hear some branches break or some leaves rustle, you look around. Now, the real shit that no one wants to talk about that, if I talk about it, I'll probably get canceled. That would be just the end of us. But whatever. It's really what I think people should be like looking into is white people's fascination with black trauma.

That is to me- Talk to us. Is very bizarre because- Black people are also fascinated with black trauma. That makes more sense because it lands and it resonates. White people are fascinated with black trauma because it's exciting to them because it's over there. But they can get close enough to experience it but guess what when it gets a little too real they go home so let me so they can they can participate from a distance from the same

distance let me ask you this though mob movies like this my push no come on we can't no no you're actually in a good place i think i think i think the mob movie rap correlation is such a reach. I wouldn't make it mob movie. I'll tell you why. Because mob movies, yes, they're based off of something real, but it's also very clear that majority of it is fiction. There's not that many of them, right? Rap, the whole attractiveness of rap is that it's real. It's not that it's fiction.

They're not playing characters. That's the appeal right especially like i can speak on this at least is because i was a white boy in the suburbs yeah so i saw firsthand what people like me were attracted to it was that it felt real it was dangerous it was over there and whoa like he's really like you see his face tats and like yo he just said he like slid on this op and yeah whoa that's crazy and you get close enough where you're like yo you see they're fighting over there and then it gets a little too close to the railing and you're like yo we gotta get out of here and that's it we that's it that's it. That's it. That's the reality. Like, to me, that is the perplexity of rap.

The pushback I would give is that I think that, like you said, the umbrella is danger. We're drawn to danger. Like, Jackass, the MTV show, is danger, right? These people are going to go prank people. Hold on. Let me get that. Go ahead. They're going to go prank people, and and they're gonna make people feel really uncomfortable

and something that I would never do. I can't believe this is so embarrassing, but they're gonna put themselves in that position to embarrass them. Eric Andre, for example. Sure, sure, sure. Great stunts and you're like, my God, this is so embarrassing. I would feel so uncomfortable if I was that person in that environment, but I'm drawn to I can't look away. There is a fascination with the dangerous. In general. Even in the way that we're attracted to anime or even kung fu movies. I feel like white and black people

are attracted to this Asian thing that was dubbed over, and we're still like, these are some badass motherfuckers. Maybe they're going out and killing all the people. I love this point you're making, because this is a conversation me and my boy have had. Okay.

So I think that there is an attraction to the dangerous. Yes. And we exalt those figures that are willing to do these dangerous things. UFC fighters, boxers, like the things that we fear. A bare knuckle street fighter, Kimbo Slice, you made himself,

but we also made him a celebrity simply off the fact that he was knuckling up in a backyard in Miami. So I think that we are drawn to these figures that are willing to do the things that we don't. And rappers specifically are rapping about these things that we're terrified of, but we are really intrigued by. I agree. I agree 100%.

Everything you said, I agree. And you know what? This is what I think. rappers who are rapping about a certain traumatic experience and black lifestyle that's particular and specific to them it's appealing to other people who have felt those same traumas and i've been through that right to white people it's we're just attracted to the danger danger yeah why it's because 21 savage is john wick to white boys yeah that's the reality rappers are the new action heroes yeah to white people yeah but to black america rappers are you're speaking our trauma and it lands for us and it resonates right but to white boys which is like but the reality is the main consumer

it correctly though the black people aren't no no because the rappers are lying this is so we're treating you like the liar which is john wick well if they lying well so they lying then we stop fucking with them if you really about that life how many of these rappers are lying and we still fuck with them here here like no but it would still be the difference between an action movie and a movie that's a drama i hear what you're saying the main consumer there's when i say consumer i mean the people putting money into it the main consumer the main ticket buyer of rap is a white boy right those people are there not because the content lands they're saying the n-word they're there because they're getting to watch john wick yeah up close meanwhile john John Wick is on stage like, this is real trauma. This is not a lie.

If he is. Now when we go down that road, here's my issue with it. Let's go down that road. So you're lying about being John Wick. Okay. If you're lying about being John Wick, promoting a negative lifestyle for commercial gain, to me, that's fucked up.

Now, if this is really your lifestyle and you're just expressing your trauma, I respect it. But if you're lying, it's a little fucked up. And so here's the real question to me. The real question is, are you publicly admitting to crimes you commit, which makes you dumb, or are you lying about a negative lifestyle, which makes you a little evil?

Which one is it? I think it's a little bit of both. Maybe a little, which, guess what? You usually start somewhere and they're like, hey, this is my truth. And then they get a little money. They distance themselves from it. But now they can still speak on experiences that they lived. That they had.

Yeah. Which I think, like I said, when it's real to you, I think by all means, I think the policing of rappers' actual real-life trauma is fucked. Let them talk about what they went through, right? I think if you are making this shit up because you know what's popular is to talk about sliding on ops and popping perks, I think you're evil. But isn't that what you also just said? If any time something becomes the culture, there's going to be people who just try to profit off of it, and that's okay? Yeah, but that doesn't mean it's not fucked up. Yes, they're doing that, but

that's fucked up. Now, what if they said, hey, Russ, you probably embellish things about your life and your music. I don't, in fact. Nothing? Nothing. There's no line about fucking bitches that you didn't exactly do? No. God damn it. No.

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was on kill them all and i called my business manager and he talked me out of it was on kill them all when i mentioned like something something like run over these bloggers in my Lambo. And I swear to God, I'll call my business manager right now. I said, bro, like, I don't have a Lambo. I have a McLaren. Like, I think I should buy a Lambo. I swear to God, I swear on my mom's life, on everyone's life. That was the only time I ever lied on my raps.

And in fact, maybe I changed the line, but yeah, that was the only time I ever lied. Because I'm not making music to persuade y'all. I'm making music for me. So if I'm not really doing the drugs or if I'm not really having the trauma, I'm not pushing it. Okay, but you say it's a negative thing, but, well, we have movies. Movies are fiction. There's a negative thing but well we have movies like movies are

fiction like movies are no there's a difference this is my life i love this i love this debate i love this debate because it doesn't land i'll tell you why there's no like to stand on movies are under the notion that it's fiction like you said when you watch scarface you're going into the theater like i'm about to watch a story. The appeal to rap is that it's real. In fact, to the point that rappers make it a point to say that they're real. So you can't, that whole notion of like, nah.

That's the thing, it's like you're selling art. So if I have a stage name, I have a persona. You're absolving accountability. you're absolving accountability you're absolving accountability i don't think so i think you are because because the reality is that's fine but then make it clear that it's the wwe but don't go out of your way wwe doesn't make it clear it's wwe don't have a great point they received a lot of criticism for it watch it doesn't matter no one says what they're doing is bad no wwe makes it clear to the people who like at a certain age you know santa claus isn't real wwe has never said publicly these are states of course if you have eyeballs you know but what i'm but what i'm saying

and i feel the same way when you see a rap no no no but that's exactly how i feel about rap i think realistically right yeah a lot of the appeal of rap, this is what I'm saying, because when you keep in mind that the main consumer is a white boy who thinks it's real, you have to understand that the appeal is that it is real. So, like, even though they're not saying it, they're not not saying it. You see what I'm saying? It's like the whole appeal of, like, this slide or not music is like, yo, I think they really are. And a lot of them really are.

But wrestling's that. Like people thought Stone Cold hung out with his friends and went like that and drank his beer. Rap is not wrestling. Here's what I would say. The appeal of rap was that it was not wrestling. The appeal of rap was that it was real. Everyone is under the notion that it's real. I understand the point.

I know, because we're all grown men, that it's not real, but I'm saying the appeal is that it's real. A lot of people still believe it's real, and also there are rappers

who live that life. It's still real to me, damn it. Have you seen that WP? I think 70% of people at a wrestling show think that shit is real. No, it's not 70%,

but here's what it is. I dare any of y'all to come out and say one of these rappers is lying about the shit they're rapping about. Because that rapper will die on a hill defending the shit they're making up. I think most of us know.

They say they're telling the truth. That's what I'm saying. It's like wrestling in that we know at a certain age you know it's fake, but we all just kind of, and I can't speak for black people, but I think the wrestlers kind of buy into, look, we know most of this is bullshit, but let's all pretend it's real because it's just a fun thing. Like wrestling, it's just a fun storyline we're all buying into. And I can't speak for the black consumer, but I think most of us at a certain age know most of these rappers ain't doing nothing. They got fucking Roth IRAs or whatever investment accounts now and we're all buying into this game

oh we we have aged out of the audience that is influenced the most by rap we've aged out so you're talking right we're talking uh amongst each other as grown men who understand that it's not santa who's bringing the presents. The audience that's most influenced by rap thinks it's real. And the issue that I have is that if it is not real, don't push it because it's negative. Now, if what you're pushing is positive and it's not real, push it by all means. That's Santa Claus. Santa Claus isn't real, but it's positive.

Your shit isn't real, but it's negative. And you're not even living it? Nicky spoke on Future saying when I talked to Future, he told me he wasn't even doing the drugs that he talks about in the songs. I think Future's music is amazing. I'm grown enough to have the discernment to say, man, this shit is... Stick to the Models is my favorite shit, right? Russ, watch your mic.

Sorry. Stick to the Models by Future is my favorite shit, right? But I also know that the reason why I wanted to try Lean when I was 19 was Future. Was Future. And I'm not going to blame him. I'm grown. I did think the drug shit was real.

I knew the slide on the op was it. The drug shit... No, I'll tell you I did think the drug shit was real. I need to slide on up. The drug shit. No, I'll tell you why the drug shit can't be real. Because you cannot do that many drugs and live this long. Okay, but not to advocate for a negative. Which is why when Juice WRLD said, I started doing these drugs because of you, we have seen it live in the flesh. Juice WRLD said, I did drugs because of you. Juice WRLD died of a drug overdose by following somebody who does not even do the drugs that they said they did. Valid point, yeah.

What the fuck are we talking about? Everyone wants to tiptoe around the fucking because certain people are Teflon and you can't talk on certain shit. Why is there a defensiveness around this? Al, what do you think that is? Because people are trying to protect free speech, even if this free speech is negative. I don't think it's free speech. It is. I think it's a cultural.

That's what it is. It's like, oh, we should be able to say what we say. You can, but then also face the consequences. I think it's cultural success. And I think it's like, I think it's, I think it's, we should be able to say what we can say. But then that's fine. But you cannot absolve yourself of the accountability when you have to face the consequences of your actions and when the

chickens come home to roost. When Juice WRLD, who did drugs because of you, dies, that is a real moment of reflectiveness that needs to happen within the culture. Oh, real quick, real quick, real quick. No, question, question, question. That's the reality. Am I tripping? No, you're not, but I don't think anyone like- When Alex Jones or when Tucker Carlson or any of these dudes that were supposed to be taken on face value as news sources and they were telling the truth, when they back up and they go, I'm just doing this for entertainment, they get ridiculed. How dare you manipulate all these people?

Right, right. But what I'm saying is you could make the same argument that Alex Jones, Tucker Cross, or any of these guys are the rappers. No, because presenting yourself as a news is different. Right, right, right, right. No, but I see where you're going. You want me over with Juice WRLD, but you can't go news, because news is news. It is, I'm presenting this as news for you to, like, consume as facts. But you have to understand, to a 17-year-old.

This is my life. How is that different? To a 17-year-old, a rapper is giving them news on the culture. But it's the same thing. It's candy news. It's like sports is real. But rappers are the fucking— I think we're kind of arguing two things. No one's trying to absolve rappers' influence.

A parent should raise their kids. For sure. Kids can look up to somebody and be influenced by, but at the end of the day, it's up to up to the parents to raise your kid i agree so it's like this artist should be able to be an artist if they are actually and we gotta we gotta can't act like this shit isn't going on yes there are some rappers that are fronting but there are rappers that really are about that life like we see it happening for chicago we see for sure for sure there are so it's like you can't put all the onus on the. No, no, no. And for disclaimer, I'm not talking about the ones who are actually talking.

Like I said, I'm not talking about the ones who are actually talking. No, but even the ones that aren't. No, but see, that's where you have to start raising an eyebrow. Like this is a little bit evil, because if you are purposely choosing to promote a negatively influential lifestyle that you yourself are not even take that part. This is fucked up. I'm not talking about the ones who are like, yo. I'm not advocating for it. I really lived this. I did X, Y, and Z.

I'm using my music as a journal to talk about it. Let them express what they express. The ones who are not doing it, but they're doing it because it makes money, and then they have blood on their hands. I'm going to further reinforce the stereotypes of the black community from my personal game and that's a crazy intro but that's essentially what the criticism is it's like if you are living these things that's incredibly unfortunate and you were born into a situation you probably couldn't avoid and you should be able to speak on your experience but if you did not live them at all you are further reinforcing the stereotypes of the black community

just so you personally can get money, while those people continue to suffer. That's the definition of selling your soul. Yes. That's the definition of selling your soul. I think that criticism is good. But to what we're all talking about, because what I've heard

from a lot of people sitting here is, well, but it's WWE. Okay, so what we're saying, what I hear, is that majority of rappers have sold their soul, but it's okay because it's art. No, I'm saying it's... I will say also to his point, it's not just negative reinforcement.

It sets up a negative reward system where you think to yourself, if I want to make it, I got to be one of the real guys. Not even fake it. I got to be real. Otherwise, if I get my card called bro this shit is phony i just think i might have to live that life i think it's a little hypocritical to just call out that because this happens in society everywhere there are people that are selling

cancer to you there's people that sit like tobacco industry i wouldn't say it's hypocritical i would just say i would just say it's hyper but there's a lot that don't mcdonald's like are killing people nobody's calling this shit out i know but that that's like that that don't. McDonald's are killing people every single day. Nobody's calling this shit out. I know, but that's like that tweet where it's like, if you say you don't like oranges, someone's like, what? So like pineapples just get off the... It's like multiple things can be wrong. We're talking about music.

McDonald's has received so much criticism, bro. There's been so many documentaries. Supersize Me is a documentary. There's constant criticism. No, but we're talking about music. We're talking about artists and we're talking about artists that are putting out bad music and it's up to the people at home who consume that music, how they live their life, listening to it. If you're raised right. And you know,

we can all listen to a future song and not be influenced by it. You said, Hey, yeah, but your parents were a little bit closer to you, they wouldn't have let you have access to that. No, no, no. You might have wanted to try it. No, let's pump the brakes, right? We were all 19 once, right? Yeah. At some point, you're outside of your parents' supervision.

So at 19, when I'm like first dabbling into music, I'm drinking, I'm smoking weed. Future's going crazy. He's dropping Tony Montana. I'm like, this is crazy. Especially in Atlanta, it was a different time. You're sitting next to two people that have never done drugs, didn't have sex before marriage.

Not everybody's influenced by what they've been in. I agree, but to your point, not everyone is influenced by what some people are. You can't just write up. Put it on the artist. No, no.

Real quick. What I'm saying is you can't just say, well, these two people weren't influenced, so it's not at all on the artist. Hold on, hold on. Even though someone like Juice WRLD literally told Future himself, I started doing lean because of you. One point. let's say there's we can't absorb that let's say that there's absolute yes there's some it's not that black yeah yeah let's say that there's zero influence right let's say it doesn't impact a single person like it nobody does drugs because of it nothing right everything's the same society

doesn't change at all you could go, you are profiting off of a trauma that is not yours, that you are also reinforcing a negative stereotype, even if it doesn't turn into anything. That's true, too. You still are profiting

off a trauma. Do you know what I'm saying? That's kind of where I was coming from at first, which is, if it's not your real life, to me, that's the culture vulture.

I'm just saying. I agree. I agree. It's an icky way to make money, but it's not your real life, you could argue that that's the culture vulture. I'm just saying, I agree. I agree. It's an icky way to make money, but there's a lot of people that make money. But Al, this is where you're missing the mark. Hold on, Russ. This is where you're missing the mark. Nobody ever says somebody who works for Philip Morris didn't sell his

soul. You sell cigarettes. You made it a point to sell cigarettes to kids. You sold your fucking soul. Nobody, if you call a cigarette company, is going to be like, bro, what about drug dealers? No, motherfucker, it's you. You sold your soul. So I just don't like that whataboutism of, well, what about these other? We're not calling them out. Of course we call them out. We call them out all the fucking time. If you're McDonald's and you decided we don't need to sell chicken, you sold your fucking soul. Ray Kroc sold his fucking soul. We call them all out. I will agree. It's an icky way to make

money, but at the same time, I think you have the liberty of being an artist where it's like, hey, you get to make whatever type of art you want to make. If it's not positive art, then don't consume it. Or just admit you're lying. Just admit you're playing a character.

Look, I think to close it out, I think make what you want to make, but also don't absolve yourself of accountability when it comes down to like, yo, if you're talking about something that's negative and pushing something that's negative that you didn't actually do or live, but you're doing it because that makes money, you sold your soul. Simple as that. And just own it. And just own it. We can agree on that. that you didn't actually do or live, but you're doing it because that makes money, you sold your soul. Yeah, yeah. Simple as that. We can agree on that. And just own it. We can agree on that. But this whole notion that, nah, chill, people should be able to talk about what they talk. Oh, yeah, you can. But guess what you're also not exempt from?

It's criticism for selling your soul. The Jews World thing completely flipped me. I only thought about violence. That's not my opinion. That is documented. He told him that. And Nikki is in interviews saying, I think it was to Joe Budden, saying that Future told her that he doesn't do the drugs that he talks about. So it's like that to me, like I said, I have a whole future playlist because I'm grown and I can like, you know, use the sermon.

Because I'm grown and I can use discernment. But still, it's like, when you see somebody like Juice WRLD, who their introduction to it was because you glorified it. I mean, that's got to feel crazy. But then it's also, hey, where's your parents, friends, family, where are the people around you? They also failed them. They also failed them. No, that's not true. You can't put it all in your heart. It's not only. No. Like, you can't put it all in your heart. No, because then we're acting like none of us were 19 before where even if you had good parents, you just didn't want to be 19 and wild out because that shit sounded cool.

There are 19-year-olds that didn't want to wild out. I know, but then the ones who did. They're the vast minority, though. No, no, no. You can argue the foundation is set by the parents. Listen, minority and majority is irrelevant. foundation is set by the parents. Minority and majority is irrelevant.

The fact that there are 19-year-olds who chose to wild out because they heard he was wilding out, even though he wasn't wilding out, cannot just be ignored for the sake of an argument. That still has to be like, yo, that's kind of fucked up. We're not saying that's the whole blame. We're not saying that that's, oh, that's what's wrong with the world. But there needs

to be accountability. It can't just be like, it's all right, so some there needs to be accountability. It can't just be like, what if Mike Jordan never wore jerseys? Some people died, big deal. It can't just be that because that's the alternative. The alternative is like, so what? So somebody died because he followed what he said.

Big deal. Where was his parents? It can't be that. You can also argue it's worse from an artist than it is from a Philip Morris because at least I know those guys are just trying to make money. Art is supposed to be art. The art that hurts people, that you're just saying, no those guys are just trying to make money. Art is supposed to be art.

The art that hurts people that you're just saying, no, I'm just trying to make money and calling it art. And that's kind of like, as an artist, fuck you a little bit. Yeah, but the guys-

I was on your side 20 minutes ago. But the guys at Philip Morris were spending money trying to convince people that this isn't bad for you. Dude, they're bad too. At the same time,

they were lying to you But to defend the artist and be like, dude, that's too. At the same time, they're lying to you. But to defend the artist and be like, dude, that's art. I'm telling you as an artist, if your art is killing people and it's not even real to you, I could argue that's even scummier.

And you can hear the victory all I have for these cigarette companies. These are monsters. You could argue. To say you can't argue that is wild. You can't argue that. In the guise of art, I'm having people killed is worse than

hey, here's a product that I'm selling as a product in a consumer good that's killing people because I know you're a greedy fuck. I know you. I clock you as a greedy cocksucker trying to drive up a share board. That's also what corporations are. I just think we're coddling humans to be like, oh, well, you don't have the wherewithal to know

that you shouldn't do the thing that you're listening to. We're just saying there is also accountability. I think we're I think we are underestimating the societal pressures to just be amongst and just be 18 and be 19. And why can you be 18 and 19 and watch John Wick and not want to go out shooting everybody? No. Why do you have that? No, no, no. See, this correlation isn't a documentary. No, no, no. It doesn't matter. No, no, no. Why do you have the wherewithal? But then, because it's in a documentary. It's so much fiction.

Why do you have the wherewithal to know that that was real? You know, you're aware of the difference between a movie. That to me, exactly. Hold on.

Hold on. Let me talk. Because I hate that analogy. I always have. Because it's acting as if it's like gaslighting to me it's trying to make it seem like future is john wick no no no no we got i think future is john wick because you're grown i guess guess who is the majority of the future lyric that made me want

to do that no this is when i was younger it is important when i was listening to march madness i did not dmx though bro but keanu reeves exists hold on hold on keanu reeves exists no bro no bro it's over no this shit like this is a guy that was influenced by dmx teenager yeah that's true act like come on dog to act like rappers are literally made up action heroes would then insult the integrity of rap yeah so because because guess what it should be hold on so which one is it is future in 21 savage are they gangsta licious are they john wick or are they who they say they are which one what's gangsta licious from boond, which was a dude who was playing and portraying the role of a gangster rapper, but it got defrauded throughout the episode. There's a lot of that in that.

I agree. But what I'm saying is that you can't blame the consumer for not seeing through the image that they've been presented and saying, well, y'all are just dumb and absolving accountability of the person who's perpetrating the fraud. And that to me is crazy gaslighting. I think you can't blame the artist. Yes, you can. For saying that's chapter one.

You're putting out this message. No, dog. Chapter one is. Hold on, hold on. They didn't have the way to be like, hey, I'm not going to be influenced by the message. That's almost like this. That's almost like this. Back to the Morocco story.

Yeah. That's me selling you a fake rug and blaming you for buying the fake rug should know why am i selling the fake rug i'm at he's not telling anybody to go out and do drugs he's just saying what he does do you know what a co-sign is go tell you yo guys everybody go out and do it people are what they do not what they say he's saying what his experience he's not he's not advocating for you to go out and shit people yes bro do you know how a co-sign works kids move off of what you do, not what you say. There's a reason influencers get paid, right? So it's like your lifestyle.

But they're selling it. They're saying you should get this fit tea. Bro, it's not that black and white. They're walking around in it, but yeah. Look, put it like this. I don't need to promote tequila on this podcast with my words. If you just see me pour it, it promotes it. Sure.

So to act like Future's not telling people, it's like, come on, bro. Can I ask a question? Here's a question. And you guys answer it. If Future said, hey, I just want to let you guys know, this is a character that I play.

He's never going to say that. No, no, no, I'm saying, hype it down. Lose it all. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. You've given your answer. Yeah. So if Future can say, this is a character I play.

I just want you to know my character's future. He does all this gangster shit, does all these drugs. That's not who I am. I went to Cornell. I studied business in there and studied music. And I'm an amazing musician. And I've just choose to play this character. Here's the music.

Do you think that his music would be more consumed or more popular if he was honest and said that? Or if he was like, no, I am that character. This is who I am. You'll never see me break that character and I do all those things. What would make his music more successful? Is a magician so more attractive once you know how they do the tricks?

No, he sucks once you know how to do the trick. No kidding. So exactly. They're never going to admit how they do. If that's the case, then he is profiting off of the illusion whether the kids do it or not of course there is more profit coming from the illusion and he's not saying 100 of the blame is on the artist i'm not i'm just saying that the

fact that he can make more money doing it this notion that there's no accountability for the person who's responsible for perpetuating the illusion is just gaslighting it's like it's y'all's fault for believing it no no no start a chapter one why are you perpetuating something you're not doing also even if i think you're fake i still want to do it it's not all of his responsibility but he's not absolved it's just what we're basically beautiful happy me what's the percentages that what we're doing is and right now it feels like there's

zero percentage Is it 50? Is it 49? Exactly. But I think as you know on social media it's so extreme.

It's like it's all his fault or it's none of his fault. The reality is it's like look both parties play a role. Everything's going to play a role and everybody's going to

have a little percentage. We just got to figure out what it is. But like even suggesting that there is a percentage I don't think is a bad thing. But I'm sure if I was. Everybody's going to have a little percentage. We just got to figure out what it is. But even suggesting that there is a percentage I don't think is a bad thing. I'm sure if I'm a label, I'm like hey, don't start this. This is how we make our money.

If I'm an artist, I'm like yo, don't start this. This is how we make our money. I'm getting flamed. No, I'm going to get flamed. No, no, no. Who are you again? Who's getting flamed the most? I'm getting all the flaming. Yo, but think about the flame but think about what Russ gotta go through

why are we allowing white people to speak on black culture top comment that's top comment and it's fair to make your life interesting you gotta fuck all these bitches you don't even want to do that you talking to me? Yeah, think about all the

shit you got to go through. Think about the suffering. You got to buy Lamborghinis. You got to have threesomes like crazy. You got to go to Marrakesh. You don't want to do none of that shit. But to compete with these liars, to compete with these liars, you got to spend all this goddamn money, bro. I'm really in the club.

No, not at all. Not at all. Not at all. Not at all. at all yo i gotta pee can we can we pause for one second listen here you balding bastards you don't have to do that anymore if you're losing your your hair thanks to our sponsor keeps you don't have to do it anymore this is now a choice as andrew always says keeps is an online subscription service that makes it easy for men to treat male pattern baldness. With Keeps, you can do a simple online consultation from the comfort of your own home and get matched to a clinically proven,

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Again, K-E-E-P-S dot com slash flagrant. Let's get back to the show. All right. And we back. Quick little pee break. Completely separate conversation. Rick Rubin. I feel like Rick rubin i feel like rick rubin is having like another wave actually yeah well that book he put out is a classic is that why

yeah the book is great i think oh i gotta check this i think yeah the creative act is a classic i just always find it so important for for people with such strong set of beliefs and visions and ideas to put out a book, let alone an audio book. You can press play and just hear Rick Rubin. He could die tomorrow, and you can just press play and hear him talking about his belief system. Like that to me is so underrated. Yeah, the reason why he came up i thought that was your guru person that you were speaking to yeah no no but i mean i i listened to rick rubin without him realizing i'm listening to him but okay so what does rick rubin do for those of us that uh you

know he's synonymous with music but we don't exactly know what he is doing that's the guy in the room who only has the purest intentions at heart, which is, I just want this to be the best thing it could be. And so people in the music business have called him like a reducer. I think Kanye called him a reducer, not a producer. You bring him in and he's just sort of like, nah. Cut that out. That should go. He's just, I don't know. It's like you very

rarely meet people who are the source yeah we talk about it like me and um bb varelli who i had her at the house for like a month and a half when i was making santiago who says bb varelli she's incredible she's the one who wrote uh bitch better have my money by rihanna she's an incredible songwriter incredible songwriter. Incredible songwriter. And she just gives so many gems in the studio. And one of the terms she kept saying was the source and pure, source, pure, source, pure. And kind of how she puts it, and I agree, it's like there's people who are just the source. They're the source of the sauce.

Like they're in there just conjuring the ideas and then there's people who deliver the ideas but there's people who no one knows who are like we're the ones coming up with the ideas like people say kanye is a source or i would say kanye is a source i would also say rick rubin is a source okay i think like people like sia you know the the pop singer yeah she's a source that's someone who people call on her to write their songs the way i interpreted right from the book and just from his interviews i'm curious what you think is like he he seems like a creative psychologist yes or like a creative therapist i agree it's like creative

self-help yeah like you're coming to him being like look i have all these ideas and i feel really strongly about these different things but it's all kind of nebulous. And he would be like, this is where you should focus your energy. This is true. This energy you're feeling is honest and will connect with people. I'm always skeptical of these types of people, but I have so much respect for the people that admire him. So I give him that benefit of the doubt. If he was anywhere, anybody else, I'd be like

what's this hustle, bro? I'm skeptical of a lot of them but I've had a lot of benefit from a lot of them so I think there's good and bad ones isn't that how it goes with anyone? absent of credentials, aren't you skeptical of anyone and everyone? so it's like, yeah, Rick Rubin, absent of credentials

you're like, what is this hustle? I'm not skeptical if you get dunked from the this hustle? I'm not skeptical if you could dunk from the free throw line. I'm not skeptical if you're putting up 50. So it's like, if you know so much about making the music.

But Rick Rubin has tangible, like you could be, like 99 Problems and all these amazing. Yeah, but Jay had plenty of hits prior to that. No, of course,

but once again, it's never. Also, is he writing the music for it or is he there going, this is what, like. I think, you know what it is? It's music for it, or is he there going, this is what... I think, you know what it is? It's tough for non-musicians to understand the contribution that people who maybe don't play an instrument or don't write lyrics have.

Phil Jackson. I don't know if the triangle offense is that effective, but he can take the egos, the talent. There was a time before the game moved to the three-point line, the triangle offense was incredibly effective. The game passed him by, but he was incredibly effective. But he was effective with the Lakers until 2011 was Kobe's last championship, 2010. But the three-point line didn't really change. The way that people shot threes has changed.

You understand my point. He takes the talent that can dunk from the free throw line. He goes, here's how you win a championship. Jordan doesn't win one before. What I'm trying to say is I'm not trying to discredit his X's and O's game. I don't want to get too far off from this, but like the triangle offense was something that was amazing. Now most NBA teams run one of two offenses.

It's kind of the same thing. It's how you manage those players, which is what you're saying. But it was something novel and unique and really cool what he was doing. There was value. I think why I like resonate with Rick Rubin so much is because he preaches authenticity and making music for you, the audience that is you. And doing it for that reason.

And there is no such thing as writer's block because writer's block is either you not being good enough for yourself or you not being good enough for them. There's a lot of things that he just talks about that regardless if he had credentials, what he's saying is the truth. Got it.

You know what I'm saying? Like some people, it doesn't matter. Like, I don't like, I don't know y'all from a can of paint. Right. But y'all can say things that are just the truth. It doesn't matter if I know y'all's resume. And you know, when you hear, you know, the truth, you know, and I think the truth just rings out regardless if there's a resume attached to it.

And I think also with him, it's somebody who's looking out for the artist, bro. I just feel like a lot of people are not giving game on really, like you said, a self-help for creatives. It's fucking incredible what he's doing. So I'm all for it. Yeah, I'm almost looking at him in a way like Tony Robbins-ish. Right. Where it's like he can go into a business or work with an individual, and all the people that have worked with him publicly that talk about him,

Bill Clinton, Agassi, they're like, yo, this guy changed my life. He helped my business. He helped me see the world more clearly. And it seems like Rick does that for musicians and the the contribution to add on to that the contribution factor of someone who like for people who don't make music it's man it would it would be so incredible to have somebody in the studio who's knowledgeable who's a visionary who has great taste who has no skin in the game right and who has no bias because i'm in there by myself most of the time and so i'm judging super hard or it's me and boogie it's my best friend and like we both just like love

everything we do and yeah certain certain songs get this reaction certain songs but still it's like to have somebody sort of over here who's like i don't fucking know y'all at all. This is the one, this isn't the one. Like when I met Rick Rubin in 2016, went to his house and we drove in his car. He was driving this, it was like a white Range Rover. We were driving down PCH and I'm playing him songs and I play him a bunch of songs and I get to what they want. And I don't know if what they want had come out yet,

but for context, like what they want is like five times platinum now. And I don't know if What They Want had come out yet, but for context, What They Want is like five times platinum now. And I remember playing it, a bunch of songs from What They Want comes on, and he just instantly, like, ears perk up, and he's like, this is the one. Oh, wow. And this is like, you know,

this dude at that time was probably in his 50s, so it's like not, quote unquote, tapped in to the youth and what would work with the youth. I was 22, 23 at the time. I remember listening to that song and being so upset you were white. And I couldn't believe this white guy. But he went like, Rick Root was like, yeah, this is the one. You know, and it's just like.

You can do that with a premise. Like you can hear a premise now at this point in comedy and go, that's a great, that's a great song. I feel like I could do that with music, no bullshit. I'm being dead ass. I feel like if you play me an album, yeah, this's a great song. I feel like I could do that with music, no bullshit. I'm being dead ass. I feel like if you play me an album, yeah, this is a single. Here's the thing that he preaches, which I absolutely

subscribe to because it just feels like the truth, which is... How hard is it? They make the decision for you. You're right, because guess what he talks about? He talks about it in his Jay Shetty interview. When you take a bite of food, how long does it take for you to say, do I like it or not? It's instant.

Yeah. Same shit with music. He was like, it's just taste. I don't have to think about whether I like it or not. And so Rick Rubin has gotten to where he is off of his taste. And to me, that is the flyest shit ever. That dude has gotten there. So you would love Rick Rubin is the point.

Bro, you would. I think I would. I am oftentimes skeptical when I hear about these figures and the way that they're described, right? Because what a lot of times I think that they're, like, for example, it's really nice to have somebody, when you're an artist, tell you what you're doing is great when all the other people around you are trying to monetize you sure so when the label is trying to make money off this and the studio is trying to make money off this and the people at the recordings but I was trying to make money and then somebody who doesn't need your money because he's a multi-millionaire so many times over comes over and he's like no I like this one here you go oh I can there's honesty here

yeah like so I understand the comfort that must come from that. And also the validation from someone that we always respect. Yeah. It's just learning about what that actual skill is. I'm ignorant to him. Yeah. The only thing I know is that people that I respect really respect him. Well, he also like started Def Jam, which was like the first hip hop label.

Yeah. Yeah. Right. But I'm just trying to figure out what he, what the actual tangible thing is. And this creative consultant having to like, taste is huge. Like taste is everything too.

That's the thing. Like it's not even huge. It's everything. The reason why you write the jokes you write is because your taste says they're funny. Yeah. And the reason why you're huge is because there's a lot of other people who say your taste is my taste.

Right. And also just understanding what the people have, like's taste yeah understand what people want it's like understanding culture and understanding feeling like that's taste and when you have taste it's hard to imagine some people don't have taste that's yeah and it's also you can't quantify taste you either have it or you don't he did his 60 minutes with anderson cooper so do you play an instrument no do you know how this board works no i know what my ears like that No. I know what my ear's like. Taste. That's everything, though. It's like, for me, there was a lot of imposter syndrome, still is, with like, maybe I'm not the best pianist. And maybe I don't know how to work all the equipment.

But I feel like I know so, so well what a smash is. Bro, you know what's funny? And like, that's just taste. And that's what I've been moving off. So for me, Rick Rubin is just confirmation that taste is everything. I'm going to tell my wife this shit, bro. There we go. Now we've said.

Now we've gotten to the real. I just got taste. It's like his wife has been watching Rick Rubin. I got taste, man. And so he's like, I get it. I'm going to pick the things out. I just know when I don't want it. I know when it's not there, and I know when it does hit me and it's there.

You don't need to explain yourself. Yeah. But I just know it. I have a really strong opinion about these things. That's interesting, calling it taste, yeah. That's what it is. The reason why you wore your clothes. No, but it's like the way he explains it, it's so true.

It's like, do you like this food? I don't like it. Just taste. It's not like you put on what you put on right now. He really doesn't understand food. It's like a real sensitive thing. He hurts me. This guy hurts me.

He really hurts me. We wear what we want to wear. We listen to what we want to listen to. We eat what we want to eat. We date who we want to date because that's our taste. Taste dictates all of our expression and when our taste is confirmed by millions of people objectively you could say i have great taste rick rubin has great taste that's why people fuck with him because objectively he has great taste the guy that owns the uh louis vuitton all

the other stuff bernard arnault yeah there's one thing that kanye said that was intelligent made me in his whole life and it was was that Bernard, the difference between. This guy's crazy. I don't know if Kanye is a bona fide idiot, but he does have good taste sometimes. But as a man, he's an idiot. Incredible taste. Kanye has pretty good taste. Yeah, I mean, in women.

Hold on, hold on, hold on. You met one of the most prominent Kanye haters in the planet. For real? No, no, no, that's not true This is just recent Non-Jewish Kanye haters Let me tell you the strongest form of currency That Kanye has to offer is his taste

That's why he's Kanye It's because his taste When he does something people are like Well that's fly because Kanye did it Not recently, though. Yes. What recently? What do you mean what recently?

Milk factory. But you're not dressing your girl like that. Give it time. Kanye dresses his wife like that. You're not dressing yours. Give it time. Ain't nobody dressing their wife like that, sir. Ain't nobody.

You're going to dress your girl like that? No. Okay. It doesn't matter what I do. I'm not the general public. His taste went sour. Kanye's taste went sour. Watch him.

Hold on. Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. I'm not the general public. His taste went sour. Kanye's taste went sour. Watch him. Hold on. Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. Kanye put up a snippet. As a rapper, you like his bars? Be honest. What? Of course.

Kanye put up a snippet. In the mayonnaise-colored Benz, they call Miracle Whip. That's crazy. What are we talking about? Mayonnaise-colored Benz, I put Miracle Whip. I'm beasting off the Riesling.

Nah. Nah, y'all are so gassed. Kanye's the corniest rapper ever. Kanye's the corniest rapper ever. Yo, you're crazy. I'm beasting off the re-sling. What is wrong with you guys? I don't know.

Guys, this is a beast. That was a hard-ass one. You also picked early. I love early Kanye rap. I don't like it as much now. All Kanye's raps is ass. Let me ask you. All Kanye's raps is ass.

He also hates Kid Cudi. Nah, bro. Hold on, hold on. Is it true, though? I never heard a Kid Cudi song, bro. You're tripping. You're tripping.

I never really heard a Kid Cudi song. First of all, listen to the first four mixtapes and the first two albums. Bro, you'll have a hundred songs

added to your playlist. Day and night or something like that. Day and night's incredible. But hold on, day and night is incredible. When the sun goes around. The thing with Kanye, and this is the thing with great music,

this is what's so funny. But tell me a bar that you like from him. There's so many. Tell me a bar. I'm telling you, right? Give me one bar, though. Give me a, if you go, listen, I got to tell the aliens why Kanye is a good rapper because they think he's corny.

Give me one bar. I can't even pronounce nothing. Past that for Stacey. That shit is fucking awesome. think he's corny. Give me one bar. I can't even pronounce nothing. Past that for Stacey. It's crazy. That shit is fucking awesome. Everything he does musically. You don't even believe in it now. Are you kidding?

Nah, bro. I re-listened to it. I caught the second verse, the Diamonds Are Forever remix. The second verse goes so crazy. Kanye was the antithesis to gangster rap

when he popped off. Dude was in a popped up polo collar on def jam poetry doing fucking all falls down that shit was legendary but what i'll say and it goes not just for kanye great music transcends everything i mean his production is incredible no but here's here's the thing that's ridiculous with society and and I just find it humorous. He means you when he says that. No, no, no. I'll take on society. No, no, no.

I'll take on society. No, no, no. You'll see. I'll take on society. No, no, no. It's not you. You don't have to defend society. It's that a hit song absolves all mistakes.

Yes. It's crazy. I've said it, and I know it's the truth. If Trump had smashes, nobody would care. I always think about it. I'm like, man, this is how fake mad society gets. It's like, dog, if you have a hit,

do whatever. That's how people act. Do you think you got enough bangers? Like, no one man should have all that. Do you think you got enough bangers? Do you think you got enough bangers? Like, no one man should have all that. You know what I mean? Do you think you got enough bangers, Russ? Do you think you got enough bangers?

No, no, no. You can't get away with illegal shit? You can jaywalk. Yeah, you can jaywalk. Yeah, I could jaywalk. You could rob a car. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Domestic violence, maybe. No, no, no.

You could fight a bouncer. I could fight a bouncer. You could fight a bouncer. On an N-word slip. No. No, no, no, no, no. You want a banger for N-word slip? If I was a trap. No, no, no. That, no. You could fight an N-word slip. If I was a trap.

No, no, no. That's a trap. What they want, bro. Eminem. No, but I just think it's interesting how society just picks and chooses who we're going to vilify. Music is primal, man. It makes us feel these different things. It's spiritual.

It's something you can't touch. You can't compete with it. If it's fucking awesome, like, what did he do? And that's why we deify great musicians and that's how people act it's crazy it gets in your soul

but bars you like Kanye for bars not remove the what really yeah you're always off on this

everybody in the room trust me everybody feels that way disagrees every time you take this thing nobody rapping Kanye by themselves son there was a time where people were

putting Kanye in the 1, two, three category. Oh, my God. For sure. For sure. For the bars. Yes, he had a run where he was competing with Wayne and Jay. I'll tell you this.

To that point, when Kanye dropped Yeezus and Kanye went on Sway, and he said, as long as I'm rapping, no one's number one because no one's talking about what I'm talking about. It's the truth. When Kanye dropped Yeezus and he's doing black skinhead and new slaves, who was talking about that? No one. No one. What was he talking about? What exactly? What was he talking about?

Shit that everyone is scared to talk about. Which is? I actually don't know this part. Oh, my God, bro. What was he talking about? I don't want to talk about it because please explain. Because you don't know. Because you didn't listen to his bars.

No, no. I know, but I'm not going to say it. I'm not going to say it because I'm not in the position to say it. Go, go, what was he talking about? He was just calling us slaves by being victims of consumerism. Vanity slaves. Vanity slaves. And then he went and sold y'all the same shit

that he was calling you slaves for buying? No, listen. I mean, he made it, though, so. Listen, listen. Nobody said he wasn't a fraud. This is y'all Jesus. Listen, nobody said he wasn't a fraud. Okay, good, though. Listen, listen. Nobody said he wasn't a fraud. This is y'all Jesus. Nobody said he wasn't a fraud. Okay, good, good.

Hold on, hold on. He wasn't an exploitative fraud. Once again, awareness is step one. Awareness is step one. So when you hear like Kendrick Lamar's song, Vanity Slaves, off of like EP, Kendrick Lamar or OD, whatever it was. When Kanye dropped New Slaves from a mainstream level to be delivering bars about basically being vanity slaves, bro, that's powerful. Now, did he turn around and sell this and that?

But it's like, bro, you got to commend the audacity. And I think with Kanye, what people always respected. He was one as well. Yeah, right. And I think what people, what me, what I always resonated with Kanye was like the audacity. The audacity to just say some shit that you know you probably shouldn't be saying is, man, like Kanye is my angel investor for the battery in my bag. Okay, I'll give you that.

I'll give you that. He'll say it. And he doesn't worry about the repercussions. It's admirable. Absolutely. No, I'll give him that. Your haircut owes Kanye West.

He wants his haircut so bad. I just want to let you know. He cannot wait to get the haircut. He ain't think about it. He's furious. The best Kanye's hair when he shouldn't say his shit is my favorite one

is when he's talking about the manager or the executive. He's like, yeah, you know, there is an executive. I'm not going to say what religion he is. He was Jewish. No, it's doctors.

It's stoked by these doctors, but I'd say the doctors and which hospital they come from. The Jews. The George Bush doesn't care about black people thing is so funny, too. I like the audacity. That's so ill. That's like a glitch in the matrix. It's like that happened. He's circling around for so long. That's so ill. That's like a glitch

in the matrix. It's like that happening. It's like we can't account for this. It makes the whole system go haywire. Mike Myers was there for no reason.

Mike Myers not handling is so funny too. And then fucking Chris Tucker's like, anyways, that's awesome. I do miss the old Kanye. He gets mad when we say that,

but I miss the old Kanye. No, but he's just become a guy that's like inspired by the last YouTube video he watches, and that's just the only bullshit he regurgitates. And then once you see that, it's just hard to take anything else seriously. When I see him going on these rants, it's like, oh, yeah, I too have stumbled across these videos on YouTube, and I have chosen not to regurgitate this information or at least fact check it. And he's just not. And I also know some people that he was like getting game from that basically had to like hit him up afterwards and be like, we were just talking theoretically about these things, Kanye. Like I spoke to the dude that he literally went on TMZ after talking to and spit all the shit. No, no. He went on TMZ after he spoke to this guy.

And it was just like. Before he talked to Van. Yeah, right. And then he talks. And it's just like. No, no. He went on TMZ after he spoke to this guy. And it was just like... Before he talked to Van. Yeah, right. And then he talks to Van. And it's just like, oh, yeah. And nothing you say is thought about at all. You just heard something sticky or provocative or whatever it is.

You do. You know what I'm trying to do, though, now? I think after being scrutinizing the media heavy is just deploy more empathy. That's it. That doesn't mean that i'm absolving people of like fucked up shit they're saying it's more so like before i go to shame which is what i would usually go to for myself especially it's like what are you going where are you at yeah you know and i

think that that's just a much more productive opening you know so yeah i don't know it's like i two two three four years ago what the fuck is wrong i'm more so now like damn like i wonder what's going on that's a curiosity question who's lucian grange yeah who is he and what's his power in the music industry uh i believe he owns umg universal but they the way people speak about him is like he's pulling all the strings yeah it's just like a popular name i mean he just owns a massive so there's uh universal warner sony and whoever i don't know we've been drinking but um yeah i mean there's people who are just ceos of these massive labels and companies and they are in power but it's like he's just like an attractive popular name who's the most powerful person in music

probably the people in japan who actually own the shit what does that mean oh yeah like certain when I was with Columbia certain deals they went above so like Columbia has a CEO but Columbia is part of Sony Sony has a CEO but above that is the dude in Japan who owns all this see now we talk so certain, they were above the CEO of Columbia and they were above the CEO of Sony. It had to get approved from the dude in Japan. And how did you do that? Well, it just goes up the pipeline

and they just run numbers. Like, is this a good investment or not? Did you ever meet that dude? No, no, no. Did you ever talk to him? Those are the real, like, that's why it's so, I don't know, like, it's like, that's why it's so, I don't know, like, it's like thinking that the fucking head coach has that much say.

That's the face of the shit, bro. Jerry Jones is calling the shots. Yeah, and he's not going to die anytime soon, unfortunately. No, it's like, and I don't know enough about football football to know it's like maybe there's probably someone above him yeah who like there's there might be a board of people who gave jerry jones the money himself no but it's like a fucking asshole no but it's bro it's the same way politics work jerry jones it's the same way politics work it's like biden or trump is the face but there's a board of people who invested and so it's like those are the ones who really are calling the shots because it's like we invested, so you need to do X, Y, and Z. Same shit with like the people in Japan who actually own Sony as a company, not just the music.

Is that why you're afraid to call them odd? Is that why you call them interesting? What a segue. Because they fucking signed the checks? Is that what's going on? No, I have no association with them. Because I just want to apologize to all of you out there. Because you guys owned everything. Because they fucking signed the checks? Is that what's going on? No, I have no association with them. Because I just want to apologize to all of you out there.

When you start thinking macro, it's like a record label is just one of the arms of Sony. Sony also makes PlayStations. You know what I'm saying? They're making a TV. They're making a headphone. Yeah, it's like, this is just another, like, what's so funny is the record label, that entity in and of itself is one artist. PlayStation is one artist. Like, we just need one of these things to go crazy. But underneath each one of these things is, like, so many people who are like, what the fuck?

Like, I need my thing. And it's like, these people don't give a fuck. What? Everybody thinks they're the biggest fish. They're sitting in Japan. What does he want? Four mil? How much has he made? Six?

Give it to him. Whatever. They don't give a fuck, bro. Are you kidding? These people are checked out. They're not here with y'all. What do you think they're doing out there, those fucking weirdos?

Looking at a koi pond. As they should. That's what I would be doing if I was bees up in Japan. Getting weirdos? Looking at a koi pond. As they should. That's what I would be doing if I was bees up in Japan. I'm at a koi pond eating fucking tapen yaki, just fucking minding my business. Give me the P&L. I'm blanking on his name, but the Houston

gangster that everybody... Jay Prince, the legend. Have you ever had a run-in with... No. I've talked to his son before. But, yeah, I mean, I've never met them. How much control and power do they have? I have no clue. It seems like they have a lot.

I know what y'all know. Outside looking in, it seems like they have a lot. But you talked to his son. I'm sure you've shared things. No, it was just literally a DM. It was like, what's up? Oh, I appreciate you. Per hand emoji.

Did you ever have to check in? No. What? He just doesn't make, I don't think he makes music. I'm not doing, like, the other thing is, like, it's not a question, but. He operates in hip hop. No, I know, but it's, like, if you're moving around claiming to be the big bad wolf, well, like, there's other big bad wolf. So, like, when you go to a city that you're not from and there's other big bad wolf, it just just makes sense to be like, hey, Big Bad Wolf, I'm also here.

Can we coexist? Who explained this? Just like basic, like that to me is like basic courtesy. Who is it? Is that not basic courtesy? No, it is, but I'm just saying, so I thought they just have a control over here. An embargo on a no-fly zone. Yeah, like any hip-hop artists that are performing here, you got to, you know, check in with them.

I've done numerous shows in Houston. It was completely fine. The etymology of this is that back in the day, hip-hop artists could usually only perform in, like, one venue in a city. And that venue was owned by, like, the local drug dealer. So now you had to do a deal with the local drug dealer. And if you didn't come with your guys, the local drug dealer who was paying you all cash, who was basically trying to clean his drug money, knew exactly where you were staying and you might get hit for your

shit on the way out of the venue. So you had your guys reach out to them and say, hey. That's multi-layered. But this is back, so that's checking in. So it's basically like, yo, am I going to be good making this money? Because back in the day, rap artists weren't getting to play in the fucking arenas or the crazy venues or whatever.

I think it's different depending on the music you make. When I did Hollywood Bowl and I wanted to bring out YG, he hit me. He was like, man, the venue's tripping because of who I am and what I'm associated with. They're not letting me. Long story short, he ended up being fine, but they didn't give me a hard time. They gave him. They gave him a hard time. You know what I'm saying?

So I think it just kind of depends on what the perception of you is. Do you have to move around with security? I move around with security because it's smart. Because I stopped thinking that it couldn't happen to me. And also because after 2018, when there was a lot of media hate and cultural hate, I was just paranoid. You're also running up on people that talk shit. Right, so I'm just like, bro, I would be dumb to think that all of these are just baseless threats. So let me move smart so that God forbid anything happens.

So yeah. Oh yeah. Are you still moving like that? Hell yeah. No, but running up on people that you know, no, no,

no, no. I was never moving like that. Yo, that shit works though, huh? No, but I wasn't like,

I mean, it's, um, it's, um, I was never doing it. No, but I wasn't like, I mean, it's, um. Say it, Connie Bar. Say it, Connie Bar.

I was never doing it. Violence works, though, huh? I think, um, I think, uh, it's actually sad. It's an unfortunate reality that the language that some people speak is money or violence. Yeah. Meaning like. It's fire to put it on them. Well, it's true. It's true.

He was operated that way for a little bit. It actually like exposes the, it exposes like the nuts in people. Like how much you really believe what you're saying. You know? So it's like you're ballsy enough to say something online, but you're not ballsy enough to like really. Throw down when it happens in person. And, you know, there was a time where I was just I fell victim to myself and my rage of wanting to stop being fucked with. And so I was like, bro, enough is enough.

Whenever I see any of y'all like, fuck y'all, you know. I was like, bro, enough is enough. Whenever I see any of y'all, like, fuck y'all, you know? So that's just what, that's just, yeah. Cause have y'all seen anyone say anything since? Isn't that interesting? Isn't that interesting? No, but that's, but that's what I'm saying. Like everyone speaks violence.

Yeah. Everyone does. Everyone understands that language. It's like, and it's fucked up. It's like, damn, y'all just weren't spanked. Like as a kid. Cause like, why did, I don't know. It's like, damn, y'all just weren't spanked as a kid. Because why did... I don't know.

It's just like... I'm not going to say when I was 17 or 18, I wasn't on Twitter talking shit as nobody. But it's like, I have never... I've never talked shit since getting on and famous and successful about anyone. And if I have, I always knew that there could be blowback but this whole notion of like i'm a talk shit and like yeah i'm good it's just like damn bro like yeah that's i'm sorry that like uh you just didn't learn this lesson earlier and it's not even a it's not even a positive thing that i even want to promote because it causes

it causes me to have to look over my shoulder straight up you know i'm saying because it's not even a positive thing that I even want to promote because it causes me to have to look over my shoulder straight up. You know what I'm saying? Because it's like I also don't expect anyone that there was an altercation with to sort of just take accountability and let it go. Like, yeah, you know what? I did talk shit about him. Then I got punched in the mouth. Like, all right, we're even. I assume they're like, fuck you.

I'm going to get my get back. And so it's like, damn, I wish I didn't do any of this shit. Right. But it's like I didn't, you know, I was talking about like going to get my get back. Yeah. And so it's like, damn, like, I wish I didn't do any of this shit. Right. But it's like, I didn't, you know, I always talk about like going to chapter one. Like, I didn't start chapter one. Yeah. You know, I didn't say, I didn't talk to any of y'all. I don't know any of y'all.

I just fucking capitalized on their ignorance. Real Italian mom boss. Most Italians have been in the whole pot. boss unfortunately the capital it was a lack of respect it's not who i want to be you turned me into a man it's not it's not no it's it's really not because it's not fly like yeah it's really not it's not fly and there's a fly. Yeah. It's really not.

It's not fly. And there's a long-term cost. The security is a long-term cost. There is, because I don't blame. Like, revenge is a dish best served cold. So I don't blame any of those dudes if, like, five years from now, they're like, you thought we forgot? Fuck you. We caught you in the Bahamas.

You know what I'm saying? So, like, I wouldn't blame any of them. But it's also, like, whatever. They just lack accountability. You know what I'm saying? So like, I wouldn't blame any of them, but it's also like, whatever. They just lack accountability. If you were an evil individual record executive that wanted to create a system that could extract as much wealth from the artists that you possibly could, given the technology that exists right now, how would it look? Easy money. Okay.

You create somebody who is the most radical persona and image of counterculture as possible and feed them hits.'s it like think about example like so so like me and boogies talk about this all the time which is i think at its core i think hip hop is black culture right and i think you've heard from a lot of different perspectives within the black culture you've heard from the ceo right jay-z which also drugged you've heard from the artsy dude kanye you've heard from a stripper you've heard from the it's like what's the next extreme thing that you haven't heard from yet what's the next extreme perspective

you haven't heard from yet get that look at sexy red i think sexy red just gonna say that i think sexy red is all i don't subscribe to this like it's like a weapon of mass destruction destruction i just think like it's the natural progression of things it's like sexy red is i think represents the authenticity that everyone else is almost trying to push she's like the real deal she's the real thing and that's why it resonates because it's like oh very very small percentage of the culture very small but it's but it is but it's impactful but it's impactful and it's authentic and so look at like the progression of the game right it? It's like, okay, but where do you go after sexy red? At some point, me and Boogers talk about this all the time.

At some point, you're going to hear, you've heard from the CEO, you've heard from the drug dealer, you've heard from the stripper, you've heard from the this. At some point, you'll hear from the crackhead. You'll hear from the this. You'll hear. You will. Why would it stop at here? You're making a point. Think about it. Why would it stop at here? You're making a point. Think about it. Why would it stop here? You're right. Because you just get more.

Exhausted men. That's why women have been making the best music. No, it's like, think about it, bro. We're not stopping here. It's going to go to the next level, and then the next, and then the next, and then the next. It's more extreme. Oh, yeah. Bro, give it 10 years, a crack, a legitimate where it's like clear that

that's their brand we'll have a number one song in the world and it is a known crackhead and we will be living in a black mirror episode where everyone is rooting and cheering on for the train wreck of a of a crowd what was the first thing you said though you said counterculture right yeah and counterculture is anything that goes almost completely against whatever the mainstream popularity is. Well, and what in my, correct me if I'm wrong, the culture of hip hop at its core and at its inception was intelligent movement. What's the antithesis of intelligent movement? Being reckless. Reckless.

Okay. We're like kind of close. Well, no, no. to your point everything right now why the old heads are like hip hop is dying is because what is happening is counter culture to the culture of hip hop's inception

the shit happening in hip hop is actually counter culture in the culture is hip hop to the counter culture I'm curious culture is hip-hop. To the counterculture. I'm curious about this. Okay. Hip-hop, I don't think, had a number one album last year. Right.

Until whatever it was. Yeah. There is a form of music that has gained mainstream popularity. And I sent it to the group chat. It was so spot on. I'm curious your take on it. And is country this rebellion that you're talking about? Is this this counterculture?

If the mainstream culture, if everybody's listening to hip hop and hip hop is it might not be representative of every single person in America, but it is popular music now. Is country now the most rebellious or counterculture thing to hip hop? And is that why it's become so popular? I think this. I think it's I think it's not that black and white but i think there's a couple things i think it happened with rock music which is subject matter and rock music reached the ceiling where we had heard everything yeah and i think with rap we have heard everything oh you're also sliding on and off?

Heard that. In fact, I heard it and it was better. You're selling drugs? I heard that. 50 did it and it was way harder. You're sad, you're emotional. You're sad? Heard that.

Cudi? Way better. You know what I'm saying? It's like everything that's happening in rap, I've already heard the better version of it. So what haven't we heard yet? So it's reached this point of we've heard all of this. It's like at this sort of breaking point where what's about to happen. And that's one layer of it.

I think the other layer is people who listen to country and rock, they weren't on the streaming platforms at first. They were still on iTunes. Yeah. Right? They were still buying CDs. They were still buying CDs. This is interesting. They were still on iTunes. Yeah. Right? They were still buying CDs. They were still buying CDs. They've migrated over where now my dad is on Spotify.

See what I'm saying? That was the last genre of music that was still buying CDs. Right. So now you're getting the audience that was basically country music's audience, in my opinion, was last to migrate to streaming. But now that they have, people are seeing that. Wow, there's a lot of them. So it's not necessarily a rebellion. Just that they were the last ones to

convert. And because of the conversion of migration, now we're seeing these numbers that look astronomical, but those were always the fucking numbers. They were always there. That's interesting. They were always there. They were always there. numbers they were always that's interesting they were always there they've been moving units yeah they were always there they would just always have their own award show that was huge they would just last to the party is all that happened in my opinion

but also i do think rap's subject matter has reached a ceiling where there's no new perspectives being introduced outside of like the select few which is why like i know a lot of people had flack for kendrick's most recent album but in my opinion father time is like one of the greatest songs released in the past 10 years because i've never heard a mainstream rapper talk about and i could be wrong right i don't want to like say that this is the gods on his truth But it's I just have never heard a mainstream rapper talk about father issues in that light. I thought it was fucking profound I've heard mother issues and all that her child abuse. He taught. Yeah, it's like I think

introducing new Concepts into the lexicon of rap is powerful and if you don't like the sound of it that's fine that's fair that's taste but i respect that and that's why i did santiago was because honestly like kendrick's album and really father time inspired me to speak on my issues because i was like oh you know, so it's safe to do that. And then I think I also like talked about shit that's never been talked about before. This is all forms of art.

Once people see that it can be done, they feel way more comfortable doing it themselves as well. They just can't conceptualize talking about like an abusive childhood or a relationship with their parents, which they might also have, but they're too locked in this game of how can I replicate what's successful? Once you make something else successful, they start going,

well, I would also like to try to do that. The labels are hanging on by a thread. I'll tell you this. The labels are not going to allow rap to fall by the wayside like that. They're going to keep boosting to fall by the wayside like that. They're going to keep boosting and juicing the stream so that it appears that, what are y'all talking about? Rap's not losing steam.

There's country, sure, but we're still crushing. No, you're not. Wow. You're having to spend a lot of money to keep up the facade. This is A Star is Born. What is the Lady Gaga movie? It's that. A Star is Born what is the Lady Gaga movie? it's that it's right now the labels are doing everything they can

to keep the makeup and the wig and the choreography going so that it looks like shit is popping but it's not it's not and how does that end? do they run out of money? I think it's like every genre

I think bro to be honest once, the truth is boring, right? Here's the truth. You know what it is? Four years ago, every CEO was signing every SoundCloud rapper and their cousin. You know what they're about to do? Sign every country artist and their cousin. And guess what? The country artists, like we talked about before, they'll make enough money to cover the loss of the rappers that they're still fronting

and so it doesn't matter it'll always look like a rap is still doing its thing country's booming yeah but rap is still crushing yeah but y'all are signing the country artists i know because i'm talking to the fucking i still have relationships with the people at the labels and some of them are good people, and we talk about it all the time, where it's like, their whole focus is country artists. My theory is- Their whole focus is,

look at Morgan Wallen, bro. Yo, Morgan. Are you kidding? He uses some words we're average use. Bro, Morgan Wallen, bro, Morgan Wallen, Jelly Roll. Shout out Jelly.

Yo, that's the man. Bailey Zimmerman. All these dudes and women who are coming through this vessel of this singer-songwriter, country-twang, alternative sort of space. That's who the labels are scooping up like they were doing six years ago with Lil Tjay and Polo G and all those kind of guys. That's what they're on now. It's musical chairs, bro. It's like thinking that these people actually give a fuck about you is a mistake. Now, now, now, real quick.

If rap starts to, let's say, struggle and views and streams are harder to come by. Yeah. Do you think that rappers will resort to more extreme tactics in order to garner those views or streams? And that's how the art becomes the crackhead doing all these crazy things or the slide on the ops gets even crazier. I need to do something even crazier in order to get the reaction that I did before. Yes. But also it's like labels. I think labels are going to. You got some. Yeah, you also it's like labels. I think labels are going to. Go like this right here. You got something on your chin.

Yeah, you got it. Get it. I think labels are going to continue to prop up rap to attract newcomers. Because put it like this, right? Labels letting rap fall is a bad idea for them. Because now where are the up-and-coming rappers going to go to? They're going to feel like, well, no, I'm not going to go over there. I'm not going to sign because all these rappers are falling off.

But if you keep seeing rappers doing crazy numbers, you're like, all right, so there's still a place for us. So they're going to keep propping it up, knowing deep down, damn, we're having to spend 30 grand every four weeks to keep all these rappers propped up, but these country artists are making millions but you know what, at least we're still recruiting and persuading

these up and coming rappers to come over here and they want to keep the rappers so they don't lose market share yeah, of course this is a fact, I might even get I don't know, my share yeah of course also you don't want to let it pop up this is this is a fact i might even get i don't know my lawyer will probably call me after this but when i left columbia first of all i bought myself out of the deal um because i mean it means they wanted another album yeah right um and i said i'm not doing another album i said okay well we need money

this is like layman's terms. I'm like, all right, cool. Here's a million and some change. Y'all can have it. And also part of that was, well, we want market share on your first 20 songs or whatever the fuck it was that you put out independent.

What do I give a flying fuck about y'all's little dick measuring contest in the industry? Meaning those songs. Meaning like after I leave the label, when I put out 20 songs independently and Hits Daily Double puts out the market share report where UMG has 30%, Sony has 20. Sony wanted to be able to claim my first 20 or whatever songs independently as part of their market share. For the bonus. Even if they're not with Sony. What do I give a fuck about

Charles' weird dick measuring contest that you can flex to the other fucking weird CEO at the Christmas party. I don't give a flying fuck. I'm getting out of here. You know what I'm saying? That's what they're moving off of is market share. Because bonuses are attached with that.

If you're number one in market share, get a bigger check. Yeah, you as the CEO or whatever. So my theory with music genres is that any new music genre, it's going to have its spike and then it's going to level out. People say rock is dead. Rock's not dead. It's just smaller.

There's still rock stations, people still... No, I don't think it booms again. I think it just levels out. So it's like right now we're in the country boom. Yeah. And it's going to level out. I just think country isn't new. Hip hop has leveled out.

Can I say a hot take? Now we have Afrobeats, which is a new version of music that people haven't heard. And it's booming. I want to say so many hot takes. No, but say your country's not new. Country's been around for a whole year. No, but I know what he's saying. I know what you're saying new to like streamers and no just like new to the marketplace this is the first being consumed this is the first time since streaming boom where country

was cool to young people yes fair enough but to that point i think um i think we're once again this is this is a this is really me holding up a mirror because I'm white. So I feel like I can speak on this. White people are the best. White people and white boys and white chicks with the colleges and sororities and fraternities, so enamored by black culture, right? so enamored by black culture, right? And for a while, and for a while,

it went from like, I remember being in high school and there was pockets of like the goth chicks and people who they listened to like a certain kind of music. There was people listening to like, you know, I went to high school, 06, I was a freshman,

2010, I graduated, 20 minutes outside of Atlanta. So like snap music and D4L and Soulja Boy came and performed at the pep rally. And so it was like that era. It's like there was the people who were listening to that and whatever. I think now what's happened with rap is that the people who would have been listening to goth music and goth artists and punk artists, whether it was chemical romance or whatever it was.

Here's Lil Peep. Here's Juice WRLD. Hip hop gave every genre a representative. chemical romance or whatever it was here's a little pete here's juice world here hip-hop gave every genre a representative but now what's happening the pendulum has swung where it's like you know what i think i would just rather listen to just the goth artist or just the country artist not the country hip-hop mix not the goth hip hop mix. There's enough art. Like it just, it just, it's time, right? It's time where it's like, it was also hip hop dominated.

We got to really think, right? It's been 2024. It's been 10, 11, 12 years since like trap boomed. And it was a complete insurgence and takeover, right? Where rap and, and, and mainly the production of rap and the trap influence was in everything. Ariana Grande was putting out albums that had trap hi-hats. You feel me?

It's like you got the biggest pop stars in the world using hip-hop influence and 808s and shit like that. So I just think now enough time has passed where people are like, oh. It starts with the artists where it's like, you know what, I think I just want to make some punk pop goth shit. Some fucking boys like girls, chemical romance, all American reject shit.

I just want to do that. And then the same people who were listening to maybe the emo version of hip hop are like, oh, you know what? It was really this that I was looking for. This just wasn't there in 2014, but now it is there. And I think, I just think that that's what's happening. It's just, it's becoming a lot-

People are becoming more nuanced in their- Yeah, it's becoming a lot more compartmentalized. It's like, if you want pop punk emo shit, there's actually pop punk emo bands that can just fulfill that role. And if you want trap rap, there's actually pop punk emo bands that can just fulfill that role and if you want trap rap there's that yeah i think the past 10 years rap just bled over to everything and so it was massive and now i think you have people like the noah cons who are singer songwriters and the in the lizzie mcalpines whatever her name is she's fucking incredible and and just you know

luke bryans morgan wallens and bailey just all these people who occupy real estate that maybe five years ago belonged to rap fans there was an overlap but now it's just very clear to those same fans that actually this is just what i wanted morgan wallen blew up right and i think within a year or two i'm not morgan wallen, Noah Khan, that song Stick Season. It's fucking incredible. Sold out Fenway Park. Wow, really? Yes.

Like, I think two nights in a row. Jesus. Wow. And it's like Fenway Park. But like, you say the name Noah Khan in a hip hop space. Nobody knows. I don't know. I don't know who Noah Khan is.

You've heard the song. But Stick Season is fucking incredible. They're also probably not buying as many fake streams. No, but like, you know what? nobody knows i don't know i don't know who noah connor's okay song but stick season is incredible they're also probably not buying as many things no but like you know what you know what to me to me bro like you never know you never know i'm just so passionate about this is now reflected i'm so passionate about great music yeah and i think that is what will always win yeah it's great music. And I think a lot of artists and a lot of people,

they get caught up in why things aren't working, why is hip hop failing, why is this? You know what? The greats are always going to be fine. The greats are always going to be fine. The people who were never that ill will always fall off.

Sorry, this is not related to what you said, but I just didn't want to forget it. Can you talk about industry plants a little bit? I hear that term a lot. Yeah. What does that even mean? I don't even know what it means. You know what that means to people?

And it's so funny because the prerequisite years ago used to be you had to be an industry plant. And what industry plant means is basically like, we only know you because the industry planted you here. Well, that used to be the only way you could be known. Yeah. Think about it, right? It's like the first time I heard J. Cole was 09 on Blueprint 3 on A Star is Born.

Right. I remember I bought Blueprint 3 and Cudi's debut on the same day, September 9th, I think, 09, right? September 13th, something like that. That was the first time I heard J. Cole. Then I heard the warm-up, and it was a rap, and I was a fan. He was an industry plant by industry plant standards because the first time I hear he. Cole. Then I heard the warm-up, and it was a rap, and I was a fan. He was an industry plant by industry plant standards, because first time I hear he was on a Jay-Z album, that's a crazy introduction.

I think he was already signed to Jay. But it's like, that used to be the- I grew up in Queens, and he went to St. John's, I believe, and it was like, I saw him handing out- Right, so you were like early in that way, but it's like- Before he was signed. It's like like you used to

only be able to find out about artists if the industry pushed them yeah and then the internet opened up and a lot of this like organic rise and guerrilla movements happened to the point where it was very clear like if you blew up via internet and guerrilla style or if like an industry put put you there and so it started this conversation of nah you're not as real as them and you know and for me it's like it used to fuck with me a lot to be honest people call me an industry plan because this credits all the work you did yeah bro because i am the furthest thing from it and And I get mad because I'm like, one, discredits the work, but two, I'm like, damn, bro. Y'all are missing out on so much inspiration.

Do you understand that if you actually realize the truth, that you would realize you can do it too? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's like, bro. They want the justification for why they didn't do it too yeah you know what i'm saying it's like bro they want the justification for why they didn't do it yeah they don't want to know of course they'd rather not do the work and have an excuse yeah and it yeah it's part of the nepo baby he's on because he cheated not because you're nice right and yours and you figured out the system and you did that yeah i had money so it actually it doesn't count count what you did. And it, bro, used to bother the fuck out of me. Because I prided myself on

that. It was a part of my identity. It was my come up. You know what I mean? Like, damn, y'all about it. Like, especially it came during a time where they were taking away everything else, it felt like. I was like, damn, y'all taking away that too? Like, that was the thing that was like Teflon. Like, wait, y'all are saying this now? What were they saying?

And I remember the dude who started the rumor, straight up. And I'm cool'all are saying this now? What were they saying? And I remember the dude who started the rumor, straight up. And I'm cool with him now. What rumor? What were they saying? So the rumor was it started on Kanye Tilla. It was a forum. Yeah. Right?

And the rumor was my dad worked for Columbia. Oh. And that's how I got on. First of all, none of that makes sense. Right? It's like, so then why did I have to put out 11 mixtapes? Yeah. Oh, so he conveniently got hired after the 11th mixtape?

It's like, okay, that's awesome. Son, put out 11 mixtapes and I'll make you famous. Right. So, yeah, right. And I remember just being so pissed, bro. So pissed. And there's still people who like, you know, I get the comments of like, just fake independent shit. Talk about how your dad gave you all the, I'm like'm like what what do you think this comes from in people not just

you this is a human i think you know what it comes from it comes from an inability to look at yourself yeah it's an inability to have accountability for the choices you've made and where they've landed you. And it's easier to say, I haven't gotten to where I want to get to because I'm not cheating like he is. I would say it's a fear of looking at yourself. Absolutely. You know, even inabilities almost gives them too much credit.

The fear provides that inability. Yeah. They're not dumb. They're terrified. It's scary to look at yourself and it's scary to realize those things. It's awful. Especially if you view yourself and your identity is tied to you being awesome. Yeah.

And you being the man. That for me was like my downfall. Yeah. Was like, I got my perceived confidence from thinking I was the man. And so when things would happen that would tell me I wasn was the man. And so when things would happen that would tell me I wasn't the man, and I talk about it on the song Fraud on Santiago, it wasn't surface level where it's like, okay, big deal.

Like people say, you're not the man. It's like, nah, beneath the surface is, it made me question, well then who am I then? Yeah. That's the imposter syndrome shit. Right, because if who I am is the man and something happens that's like, you're clearly not. Then it's like, well, who am I then?

Yeah. And it fuck with my head. Because deep down you're like, I'm not the man. I'm not the man. This thing is confirming that. And if I'm not the man, what am I? I'm nothing. Do you ever think about how beneficial the insecurity was?

And I'm curious, do you ever think like, yo, if I was fully secure, what would I be doing right now? Because I don't think you'd be this. I think if I was, you know what? Let me actually answer it like this. I think there was a big, big part of me and still is where I compare my struggles. Meaning like, damn, my struggles aren't valid because my struggles aren't that struggle.

And I had to realize that, you know what? Yeah, maybe I didn't grow up a certain way, but I had my own struggles that are specific to me. That are difficult. Yeah, maybe my struggle wasn't my mom was an alcoholic and my dad left or whatever the fuck it is, right? It's like, but maybe my struggle was what it was on Santiago.

And, you know, it's like to compare struggles also fuels that imposter syndrome where it's like, oh, so if my struggle isn't as tough, perception-wise, as their struggle, his struggle, struggle her struggle that means that my shit isn't real and that made me start like dismissing my own struggle where it was like bro get over it

because your shit is not even as real as that yeah and it's like that comes from comparing struggles and thinking that my shit needs to be that yeah and it's like you know i think the fear might be if you put it out there and then people tell you that's not even a real struggle then you got vulnerable and then you get told the shit that hurt your feelings wasn't even worth getting your feelings hurt and you're like oh yeah getting gas lit by society is just par for the course you know what i mean that's what that i mean because that's what that is right when i canceled the european tour and i didn't even fully know why I needed to cancel, but I just knew I needed to, I was getting gaslit by the thousands. Say what?

Oh, like, for lack of better words, get over it. Big deal. I'm going through shit too. My girl just left me. I just lost my job. It's like, all right, so fuck what I'm going through then. Because that's how men operate. That's how men operate.

It's also men, but it's also successful people. It's like nobody wants to hear Jeff Bezos' problems. If you've got a problem with your girl, keep that shit to yourself. Straight up. And I think there's less. And I get that. There is a lack of empathy. That's the cost of success.

I've talked about it, and it is forever, to use your word, odd to me. Because it is awfully odd that as successful people, we are not allowed to experience the average human emotion without scrutiny. However, the average human expects us to act like we're not above them, but you treat us like we are above feeling what you feel. And that's what's confusing to me, right? It's like, if the average person is like, you're so rich and successful, you're not allowed to be sad. It's like, okay, let's go with that. So you're telling me that in a way you're telling me I'm above you. I'm so much above you that I can't even feel your peasant emotions.

You know what I'm saying? I don't think they say you're not allowed to be sad. That's what it is. I think they say we just don't care if you're sad. No, no, no, no. not allowed to be sad I think they say we just don't care if you're sad No no no You can't be sad about rich shit No it's not It's not even rich

You can be sad about breaking up with your girl I think they would have empathy It's just if you're rich All of your problems are like You literally just said Jeff Bezos You don't need to hear about your problems with youros and so to me if you got cheated on with by i just think it's interesting how society holds celebrities to an emotional standard that's above their own and then act bizarre and act offended if a celebrity acts like they're

above them but you have literally told them who you think they are. You think they're above you because you think they are immune to feeling what you feel because they've achieved something higher than you could ever achieve. Maybe they feel like, I think that's something important to understand is like, achieving like wealth specifically is so monumentally difficult. Like there are people that are, they can't even fathom making what you might make in a month. Right. So the idea of having that, it feels if you don't have it, that it would solve all the problems. Sure.

Because it's so like, it's so just far-fetched. Yeah. So they can't even conceptualize or empathize with going through these other things because in their mind just like all of us before we had any money we were like man if i had all the money i'd be good fucking caring my girl breaks up with me i'm getting another girl i'm getting four girls i'm going on vacation to this so so there just probably is a lack of empathy for it there's a map and this is why i always tell like my fans and people is like listen i think the best level of understanding somebody could give you sometimes is understanding that you don't understand you just give me that like because in that there is understanding

like you could tell me something you're going through and i may not relate to it but i can at least deploy the empathy and understanding to know that I don't understand. And so therefore I'm not going to pass judgment and say, you should or shouldn't be feeling this. I'm just going to understand that I don't understand. That ain't what the internet's for. No.

Commenting, hey, listen, I don't understand. Yeah. Is not going to happen. The people that don't understand don't comment. Exactly. No, the people that don't understand comment and say, this is dumb. I'm sorry. The people that don't understand don't comment. Exactly. No, the people that don't understand comment and say, this is dumb. Oh, I'm sorry.

The people that understand don't understand. Yeah, exactly. The people of empathy are just going to not say anything. Well, and that's like, I saw this on, or I said this on Twitter earlier. It's like social media birthed the rise of the haters because being cool in a lot of people's eyes is getting views and retweets,

and negativity gets the most views and retweets. So you've got a bunch of people who want to be cool. And the quickest way to get there is by being a hater and passing judgment. So, like, it's cool to, like, we all laugh, me included. Like, see a quote tweet. If it's got enough retweets, it must be funny. And it's hilarious. And you laugh.

And it's like, damn, it's kind of kind of crazy that like random people with no profile picture just like get pop in and get paid now for being a hater yeah like i'm not from that generation where it's like you got literally applauded for being a hater yeah because we would have just asked like but what do you do with your life and it's like if your claim to your bank account is oh i pass judgment and i hate on twitter that's how like i get money you're a loser i don't care how you got your money like you're a loser you're still a loser is that the cost of success? Yeah, that comes with the dinner. It's like, yeah, par for the course. Like, I wonder if some of this is,

like, as maybe annoying as it is, as, you know, we can call it behavior, loser behavior, whatever, part of the cost of being able to take your mom around the whole world. Oh, yeah, that has to come with it. There's going to be a negative to it. Has to be trade-off. Yeah. Has to be trade-off. Yeah.

Has to be trade-off. Yeah, and it's like, if that's the trade-off, so be it. Yeah. You know why? Because it's like, the positive is so much crazier. The positive is crazy. The negative. It's like, all right, so the negative is like, maybe once in a blue moon, like something

goes viral about you negatively. The positive is every day, my mom is good in a beach house and i'm with it's like so like maybe three times a year i get shit on but 365 days out the year i'm living my dream yeah so like i win yeah ever you know what i mean yeah and that's the thing to focus on 100 perspective yeah yeah i think it's easy to get to well because we're so zoomed in it's also like when you create art or you really create care about the thing that you're creating anything that is it's hard to not personalize displayed negatively about it like it hurts you a little bit you know absolutely that makes sense yeah because we're so close if we were creating a

fucking power bar or we're creating you know some random product it's not like our love and our passion is it we're like how much protein can we get into this bar oh do we get 40 grams okay we got it in i also think that's our genius though is having in this rick rubin talks about this the antennas being up yeah the sensitivity is sensitivity that's taste to be honest it's it's like you look at somebody like kanye or you look at somebody like Kanye or you look at somebody like Drake. Yeah, I'm bored now. And it's like, no, but listen. But it's like you look at somebody like Kanye or Drake and it's like, damn, why are they so big? Yeah, the music's great and whatever.

But a lot of what's impacting and staying with people is the vulnerability and their ability to be sensitive to what they're feeling and express it in an authentic way. That can't happen if you don't give a fuck. The reality, though, is that that attribute doesn't live inside of a vacuum. It's going to also bleed over into other aspects of their life.

You're going to get outbursts because they're sensitive. You can't be good at this if you're not sensitive. You can't be a great artist if you're not sensitive. No, it's like. You can't be a great artist if you're not sensitive. No, it's like I used to be, I used to feel, it didn't last long, but it was for a little bit where I was like, man, like I'm too sensitive. I gotta let this shit go. Nah, that's the.

And I was like, nah, bro. That is literally my superpower. That's the magic. Yeah. Like my ability to have the antenna up and to receive the message and execute it without interference is the superpower. And if I start letting the outside world tell me that having my antennas up is weak, then I'll be y'all. I don't want to be y'all. Y'all suck.

You know what I mean? You want to feel. I don't want to live y'all's life. God forbid. Russ, listen, we've been, I don't know how long we've been going on this. Is that the time right there? Five and a half? No, no, no.

5.30. What time did we start? Jesus Christ. We started like 1.30 or something like that? Yeah. About and a half? No. Five thirty. Five thirty. What time do we start? Jesus Christ. Start like one thirty or something like that? Yeah. About four hours rolling. Oh my God, bro. Okay.

So then before we go, anything else? What is the next 20 years? In 20 years when we come back and we reflect on this, when we're chilling on the Amalfi Coast and we're laughing about the last vacation that we went on and all the family is good and there's more family and that family even has family, all those things are happening. What is the conversation about? Where is Russ mentally? What are you creating? Honestly, I think for me i i just want to get closer and closer to an authentic balance between my personal life and my career and i think my whole 20s i spent down the rabbit hole of feeding my career yeah you know which is natural and it's good and it's paid off and now i'm trying to like incorporate some of this balance and i think in 20 years like i'm never going to stop making music it's like are you ever going to stop like thinking shit is funny like no so it's like i'll always be making music i just think

i want to get even closer to this place of like i just don't see me you feel me though you know yeah and that's it because to the to the fisherman fable it's like that's what it's about like that's it i'm already living like that but i want to get even closer to like yo like i'm i'm putting out music from this island and like you know that's that you take seven years off then you make an album yeah because bro to be honest like i'm also trying to show my fans and show people who care enough to pay attention that there's an authentic, alternative way to do this whole music thing. And sometimes I beat myself up for not playing the game more. Being in L.A. and being on the scene and like, damn, I should have been at that party.

And I bet if I had a spot in L. in LA for three months, I would have been here. And it's like, yeah, maybe you would have been. But then what? And maybe it would have paid off here. But it's like, damn, bro, ask yourself the why. The why is so important. It's like, all right, so you could have moved there. You could have went to that party.

You could have said something different. Why though? Oh, well then people will fuck with me more and they would know that I'm really who I think I am. Oh, so you don't think you are who you think you are. It's like it's a lack of your own approval. And so I'm just trying to get closer to the point of like, bro, like y'all can run around and chase all this weirdo shit and i just i want to deploy empathy to everyone i wish i could talk to every artist who's popping and just be like and just talk straight up because i feel like all of us are living inside of this fucking tunnel where we can't move either way.

And we think we're the only ones in here. And we see everyone else's Instagram and everyone else's success. And we assume that, damn, man, they haven't figured out. Not knowing that they're sitting there like this. Yeah. You know? And we're just all too prideful to like talk to each other and you know i try and i try to hit up people but i understand like the music business it's politics

yeah you know and i and i mean that not in the like uh i don't know in the weird way it's like everyone's a politician and so you you fuck with somebody based off of like temperature right now and what they can do for you right now. Sure. And if it doesn't make sense, you won't even respond to the DM. But maybe you got a hit on radio. Hey, what's up? Keep grinding.

Crush it. And all this shit. I just wish people knew my intentions. I wish people knew that they don't have to compromise who they are to reach the masses. And yeah, I'm just trying to get closer to feeling better about the person I'm choosing to be on a day-to-day. Amen to that,

my boy. Russ, go check out Santiago. Go check out the single. It's dropped by the time it's come out. I've already dropped. Yes. Beautiful. Go check it out right now. It's another relationship problem song. Spin it.

Peace.