Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh - RZA Taught Kanye, The Truth About Kendrick vs. Drake, & ODB Used a Paper Towel Condom??? | Ep 702

Episode Date: April 29, 2026

YERRR – RZA pulled up and this one’s a masterclass. From the birth of Wu-Tang to influencing Kanye and Blueprint-era hip hop, Bobby Digital breaks it all down. - Method Man, ODB & building Wu from nothing - Producing, sampling & manifesting greatness - Rikers performances, teachers who shaped him & leadership - Eminem, Dr. Dre, Lauryn Hill & the Drake vs Kendrick convo Wisdom, stories, and straight legend energy. All that and more on this week’s episode of FLAGRANT. INDULGE. 0:00 Metal Mike + Lure of Wu Tang 3:41 Fork in the road + Take long walks 10:44 The start, Meth was 1st + EPS adv 16:32 Influence on Kanye + Blueprint 18:25 Each 1, teach 1, Mally Mall + Barrier to entry 23:19 Producing + Place for samples 24:55 Observe and execute 27:51 Success, Choose the best + Doubt stops you 36:24 Manifest it in reality + Who was the best? 40:48 Meth's flows + Seeing our fruits 43:01 ODB + performing in Rikers 45:47 Knowing each other, 1 of 11 + Schools 56:57 Impact of teachers, Leadership + School performance 1:01:34 Mr Greenberg, Scientific + Being a General 1:08:32 A lot flows from Wu, The Abbott + Delfonics 1:15:28 Knicks in 6 + Orlando Magic 1:19:02 Dirty was the funniest + Being Rockstars 1:29:03 Choosing their names + Breaking out of rehab 1:32:32 RZA's flaws, Sacrificing + Only the Wu 1:37:36 Being present + Be patient 1:40:08 Sole focus, Blessings + The Bounce 1:44:12 Paris Jackson is an artist + Real aura 1:48:44 Still feeling nerves + Denzel Washington 1:59:13 Meeting Eminem & Dr Dre + Holo-what? 2:03:26 Hip Hop on tapes + Vintage feeling 2:07:35 36 Chambers + Cuban Linx 2:11:55 Schulz's fav - Patrice O'Neal & RZA's 2:15:39 Lauryn Hill, Battling Big L + Losing himself 2:22:20 Drake v Kendrick Beef + Meet The Grahams 2:27:18 Losing 1 battle + Drake's ICEMAN 2:31:31 "One Spoon of Chocolate" + Tarantino producer 2:32:13 Shanghai toilets + Banned his bro 2:38:11 RZA's gives us a bar This episode is sponsored by Kalshi. This episode is sponsored by Sesh. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, everybody, and welcome to Flagrant. And today we are joined by true creative legend, the inspiration, the seed, the architect. We're here with Rizza, everybody. Hey, Rizzo's on the couch. Thank you, Rizzo. Dude, thank you so much for coming. I have a question I have to ask you. I've wondered this for probably, God, I don't know, 30 years.

There was a guy in my neighborhood. I grew up in the East Village. Okay, there was a guy. I don't know if he was homeless or not, but he would ask for money on those streets. on 4th Street and Lafayette. God know you're talking about August. No way. There's no way.

Mike. How does it? No way. He told us this. I was like, don't bring it up. He's not going to know. So there was a guy, metal mic, right? Yeah.

Metal Mike, okay? And the thing about metal mic was, I've been waiting to ask you this for years. I can't even. I'm shocked he knows this. I'm sorry that I doubted. I didn't know if he was being genuine or if he was maybe battling schizophrenia or something like that.

Like, I had no clue. But the thing was you could go up to him. you could be like, yo, what's Wu-Tang up to? And he would give you detailed information about what you guys were doing. You know, so crazy, he was homeless. And I think one day, you know, I'm better maybe came up to me, maybe asked for a few dollars one day. I might have blessed him heavy, you know, that type, you know.

Yeah. And then, but I might have talked with him for like 10, 15 minutes, right? And this is when Fourth and Broadway Tower was the Tower Records was there. That's right. Yeah. G Street Records was in that building. Oh. Check it out. Russell Simmons lived on the top floor.

Of that apartment. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was an old share apartment, actually, that Russell got from share. But anyway, and G Street was in that building, and there was also another studio there. So I will always see him.

But eventually he became my man. That's my man, you know? If I had something, he saw me, if he saw me, his day was good. Yeah. You know what I understand? He was good. Like, mom's going to eat well today.

But then also it came to a point where I was like, yo, you know, fuck it. Hand out some stickers, bro. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then like, I don't know. Like, I don't know what we had in common is it? But, you know, at this time, I spent like a whole hour talking to him. Really?

You guys connect. Yeah. So you probably, if he told you some shit, bro. He got it from the source. That's what I was always wondering. And there were people that would go up to him. Like, this was the allure of Wu Tang, right, growing up in New York. which is like, and also you don't have the internet this time.

So the access is actual like, you know, word of mouth information. And he had it. There would be dudes that would pull up, throw him five bucks. What up, Mike? Yo, what's move up to? Oh, and then they were just like random insider riff. They're working on the album. It's coming together.

That's insane. Why did they call metal mic? Do you know? I don't know if it was metal mic or something Mike. Motor mic, metal mic. Yeah, yeah. I just remember Mike. Like it was something else in front of his name.

But yeah, that's, yeah, it wasn't mental, Mike, right? It might have been. I didn't want to make an assumption. Where is Mike out today? Yeah, where is Mike? I haven't seen Mike. It is, bro. It's like, I feel like I haven't seen him when the World Trade Center came down to some shit.

Like, not the whole city chain. Remember that shit? He told me he was like, yo, they're going to hit the towel. He's on the inside of everything, bro. He's on bomb. Bomb bomb. man. Anyway,

if he is out there, you see this podcast. What up? Bro, long time, man. Mike, man, love to you, bro.

We always believed you, by the way, Mike. You know? We get to ask you when Wutak was up because we always believed you. Man,

you got all this, like, just doing the research on you is really fun because it's like nostalgia. It's like the little memory lane you get to walk down

like you grew up in the city especially. And I was watching this drink champs app that you did. It was like four hours with Nori. Shout for Nori.

It was unbelievable. And there's a moment early in the episode where you even go like, I want to make sure we have time to get into shit. Like, I think you thought it might be like an hour or something like that.

And it's like, you guys had plenty of time. You told it off. Sweatting and I'm all fucking. But you told this amazing story and it was like a Bible verse you reference even where you're like, one positive decision can be responded 10 times

or something like that. And it was this decision like you had 20K and you wanted to decide what you were going to do with your life. How old are you? this time? This is right before

Wutang, so I'm 21-22. Okay. Can you break down this moment and... Yeah, without incriminating. Like, I was trying to say, no, so at the end of the day, you know, I had 10K, Ghostface had 10K, that made the 20K.

Got it, yeah. And the gag was the plan was to get a brick. Yeah. You know what I mean? And at the time, you know, my pops had to connect. You got to call Uncle Joe. Uncle Joe. Yeah, Uncle Joe had to connect. And it's like, all right. So I decided to go down and meet Uncle Joe and talk to him about it. And yeah, we talked about getting that brick. You know what I mean? I wasn't vegan, then. So your brain wasn't operating with me. I'm not. I probably knocked out like 17 chicken wings that night. Cocaine is vegan. I think. But the paraphrase, it's a clear. I said, if it's a very I told her to know that I should paraphrase it now

but the thing was, yo I had a baby in the oven or maybe just born right so life was like what are you going to do and when you do negative shit negative shit happened like like at this time and a brick could get you straight

but this is like after I just won the trial right yeah after dirty had got locked up after we fucking tore this fucking Ohio town upside down oh shit constantly making the fucking newspaper. And it was like criminal activity was not only hurting you,

it's hurting your community. Yeah. It's hurting your family. Yeah. It's a fucking really a big chain reaction of criminal activity. But yet money leads you to want to do it, right?

Need money to live. And so we figured, yo, if we flip this 20, we could at least get 80. It's a nice come up. It's a nice come up, right? But then, I was like, nah. What happens where you go, no? And that single decision might be the most influential decision in music.

It's not just hip-hop, but like that one decision spawns everything. So what happened is back to Staten Island. And mind you, that's got to add this part to it. You know, ghosts already been shot. You know what I mean? Yeah. And, you know, in the way he got shot based on, like he said, he took a bullet. Like, I got, I got fault in that.

Really? I got fault, yeah, because I'm part of what's happening. I bought him here to this thing and shit, you know what I mean? So my man wise got shot, you know what I mean? So it's just like, but we come out doing it again. You know what I mean? You're feeling some sort of responsibility and almost guilt about this. Yeah, and then I'm taking this fucking walk.

And mind you, like I said, I'm acquitted of a crime, right? I'm ready to have a second chance. And I have a child. So I'm walking and I'm thinking, yo. And I advise us to anybody, take long walks. Amen. I'm walking through standing. People thought there was, I learned this, people thought I was losing my mind

because I'm walking and I'm talking to myself. But I'm calculating. I'm thinking like, yo, this shit, that's fuck, not this, man. You know, says, no, I got to do like this. Oh, what up? Yo, what up? Yo? Yeah, yeah.

Maybe you did have a few things in a car. Peacht. Him and the mic were close. Yeah, you're a motor mic. You guys were talking to yourself. I'm talking to him. I was in frequency with him. But Puntzline came, yo.

It was like, nah. And I just told Ghosts. I was like, yo, we're going to separate here. You know what I, man? I said, yo, I don't want you holding me down. I want you like, just go ahead, live your life. I'm going to go live my life, yeah. You know, I mean, I appreciate everything.

Give him the big hug. Give him his turn. Took my turn. How did he react to that? He understood in a sense of like, like ghosts always looked at me as a big brother. You know what I mean? You know, he was the big brother of his family.

Maybe he saw me as a big brother as well as his brother. Of course. You know what I mean? At one point, his mother called me him. That's how much. Me and him, we live together. So that is my brother, right? But, yeah, he was like, okay, cool.

And he might have went and kept doing what he was doing. You know what I may? But I kept on that journey, right? And it took maybe a month later where I was like, I went and saw a man named Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith, he was the father of my old manager, Mel Kwan. Okay. He used to always like to play chess with me.

And so I went over and played some chess with him and shit And he was the one that started the company called Jamaica Records Where he signed Sir Abu and the Divine Force And I always see the records Stacked up in his house Little Brownstone in Brooklyn

On Parkside Avenue always And they ran the company out of their brownstone And so I was just like I want to start a company So that's where you're soaking up game And you're realizing I can do this as well And it's not this unattainable thing where I need this office in midtown.

I can do whoever the fuck I want. He did it right there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he gave me the advice. He said, go see Mr. Bill Wine. So Bill Wine, people always say, he was a lawyer, but he seemed like he could, like, what's Bill Warren? He's in Hong Kong.

Like, he was always, very mysterious. His office, his office, now that you fucking make me go back to Mr. Wine, his office in 70s street, whatever, up in the upper 70s, was in a building at an apartment. Go in, Mr. Wynch, Cherrywood. I never forget the little cherry wood Japanese shit he had in there. You know what I mean? But I said, yeah, I want to start a company. I want to do this.

And I basically, the 10,000 went to form Bhutan production. So I formed Bhutan production. And at this point, do you know I'm going to be producing everything? I'm going to be the architect of all this. Do you know the talent that you want to bring into it? Or are you first going, this is just the brand? And we just need to start with one record. Yeah, the idea was a start with a record, start with a company, build a company, get a, get a identity of the company.

Right. The logo was the identity of the company. So that was really just my business card. I mean, well, first it was going to be some other shit. You ever see the shit with the fucking head shit. But it became my business card. Okay. And then that same business card is the company.

up, protect your neck. I just went to one of those magnifying places where they put the photography. He shot my business car and just blew it up. That's my first fucking single. But the first inception was what is the brand? Yeah, what is the brand? And I knew what the

brand was because Wu-Tang was like special to me in the sense of it was the illest kung fu movie I ever saw. It was the illest technique. Like the sword style was the best sword. style and I just used like I said the Bible in the Bible it said when Jesus comes in the last days

said out of his mouth came a devil-edged sword and he used it to smite the nations and I was like well a sword out of his mouth that's that's a crazy image yeah but your tongue is shaped like a sword yeah yeah yeah yeah so I just took it that that's a metaphor and I was like well we got the illest lyrics and I already had a lot of different tapes from deck meth all of us big oh it was come to my crib and make tapes. So I said, let me form the company and go and sign them to my record company and start producing music with them. You know what I mean? The first one to sign was meth. Really? That's what I call them Woo Brother number one. Oh, wow. I didn't know nothing that was first. Yeah, he signed the contract first, yeah. And how long to get all the rest of

the guys? I mean, not that long. Like, you know, within six months, everybody was in. Do you have to pitch them on this greater idea? Are they all trying to get their own record deals at the time like where are people in their lives yeah everybody's trying to get a record deal everybody wish everybody's dreaming got it but me and juzza have already touched the dream yes right juzza had an album out was from a genius we were so proud of that i had the prince rakeem yeah epi out uh and and and and it was like into so from their point of view they end they made it you know what i mean they're in the they're in the system so you had you had something validated, something qualified.

Yeah. Now, to have my own company was a whole other thing. It was like off the record, but on the record, we're on the record. It was other people vying, too. Like, because what happened, Shahim was,

like, Shahim, his first lyric came out of my rhyme book. You know what I mean? He's my little brother's best friend at that time. They were still my shit and go make them those. No way. Yeah. Until he, of course, he started writing his own shit. That's when he was like 12. But anyway, But Shaheen, he ends up signing the deal with Virgin Records through a whole other system.

Right? And I felt left behind on that one in all reality. Oh, really? Yeah, because it was like, you know, Shaheem was, like, you know, I thought he was one of us. He was one of us. But he was also being produced by a great producer who didn't, who, I just think he's a very underrated, unsung producer named Arness out of Stapleton projects. If it wasn't for R&S, I'm going to give him some credit here. I have the SP-1200. He had the EPS. The EPS is a keyboard.

Got it. He had to go down south with, and have to do something for the summer and go with his family. He let you hold it? He took the SB12 because you could fit that in the trunk. You can't fit the keyboard. And so he gave me the EPS. And so now, I'm like, okay, what's this shit?

And what it did, the SP-12-100 was stuck with 10 seconds, 12 seconds of sample. right 2.5 seconds per pad the EPS had about maybe 20 some seconds but it wasn't limited you can use it other words on the SP 200 just so you guys can follow no matter what you're never going to get more than 2.5 seconds to use at a time so that's why we speed the sit up and then slow it back down yeah on the EPS you can use your entire 10 seconds at once so it gave you a little more flexibility super flexibility you know what I'm made so if you go back and think about Wootang music a little bit

you'll notice the two bar four bar phrases is coming versus the one bar phrase and this is because of the limitations of production exactly oh so production limitations influence the way that you guys have created the music but also creates a different sound

that nobody's really hearing at the time exactly and it's also it's either limiting you or expanding you. Now, the other thing about the EPS was that now that I got the sample on a key, it spreads across the entire keyboard. So now I got 61 keys.

Oh, so now you can really play with the sample. Exactly. Oh, shit. And you were like one of the first, you were stacking like 10 or 15 samples on one track and stuff. Yeah. Most of the time it's just like one or two.

And people not think, because we're having a lot of producers that they're making it, For the SP 12 is a drum machine that samples. Right. The EPS is a piano. Yeah, that's a samples. Am I, okay, am I going?

So, anyway, I know we kind of did the whole job. But this is interesting because I don't want to like go too far here. But am I crazy to see your influence on Kanye's production? And has he said as much? Like in the way, yeah. Because to me, I see it. And I see, like, you taking these samples, especially the old samples that are done on the keys,

taking these songs, chopping, speeding them up. And then I think you see a lot of that influence in Kanye, especially with the vocals. Yeah. No, Kanye, of course, I respect to Kanye and another genius in art. His art and his fashion speaks for itself. But, no, but he, you know,

I don't know. I try not to self-praise himself. That's what. Let me do it. Let me do it. Let me say this. Let me say this. I also want to... They did an interview with him one year and said, who was your hero? And they asked him what's the risk. Yeah.

Wow. And that's respect. And I look at him as a brother, a good friend. Anytime he hits the phone and needs me, I'm there because I really respect them. But when the blueprint came out, I was impressed by that album. Yeah. You know what I mean? Right?

All of them. All of them. And so, but, but, but, but it was a hard, but, but I was pretty, Wooten was pretty, fuck y'all, you know that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. But time, the time, the time was moving and, and, you know, and others were evolving. And when I heard the blueprint, I was like, okay, the niggas got it now. Really? And so I called, I actually remember, I think Jay-Z was on Hot 97. And I dialed up, bro. Now I was like, yo, I want to just say, yo, congratulations. This shit is, yeah, this shit is right.

And he was like, yo, I got the whole blueprint from you, Vince. Wow. So, wow. Has there ever been a moment in your career where you, where the people you influence have not given you your flowers? Because it seems like everybody gives it up. It doesn't seem like there's an ego when it comes to you. I mean, back and forth, yo, the culture has been,

has each one teach one. That's one of our lessons, right? Each one, teach one. So if you were able to be someone that, you know, if you were the caveman that started using fire. Yeah, you got to spread it. Yeah. Now you're using fire.

They go, oh, this guy makes fire. Good. Now, motherfucker, yo, how about this? How about the grill, motherfucker? Yeah. They put it on the pot and put some oil and that and say, oh, we can bake with it, guys. But maybe I'm the first one.

That's all the two sticks together. make the fire. But then once it's there, others continue to build. And then for me, I got to say Molly Mar, right? Molly Marr was the guy that yo, I used to fucking wait outside the radio station to try

to see this guy. How old are you at this time? 13, 14, you know what I mean? Maybe even 15, 16, even up to there. I remember somebody's saying, oh, I know Molly Mar, meet me at the Hoyt Street stop on the A train, and, you know, he's going to be there. That sounds like a setup, bro.

I don't know. Yo, me and Dirty was right there. Was he? No. I didn't meet Molly Marr, bro. Until, like, 94 or something. Like years later, bro. No, I met him before that.

Actually, another way of Molly inspired me was that I met him before that. When Roxanne Chante was working on that album, I had a chance to meet her. So I'm 19 now. Okay. And Prince Raqeen has just signed the deal. and, you know, so eventually they'll start making my song. But also, people, you know, people know that I'm a lyricist.

Right. They don't know I'm a producer. Nobody, you were known for rapping first. Yeah. I'm not up. Nobody won't let me make the beats. Wow. All my tracks, besides, you know, I made the Oh, We Love You Rockeen track, but even then,

Prince Paul had to help me. Interesting. Right? So, so I'm with, they send me the DR period, backspin, all the producers, Dice uptown. Easy Mo B. Easy Mo B made my first B side of my single. Was it because you weren't able to do at the time, or they didn't trust you? They didn't trust me.

And also, and maybe rightfully so, because my equipment was a four-track with the turntables. And you hear that says, like, okay, all along, I'm trying it is. But I don't know, there was something maybe that was more authentic about it. maybe that cut through. Yeah, maybe. The production did feel a little bit different. Right. But at the time, you know, there's no proof, right?

Right, right, right, right. So, but anyway, we, we, we, um, we, um, lost the train. But at 19, known as a lyricist, I, I, I didn't, you know, waking, but I got a chance to meet Molly Mauden. And I went to his crib. up in the, I think, near the palaces, up in that area. And the dude had an SSL in his house. What's an SSL?

So an SSL is the mixing board. It's the board. So it has all the... It's the board. The shit partly at the time was $300,000. Oh, my God, okay. So he has an SSL in his crib. You see these in all the studios.

So the barrier to entry, I think that's where a lot of, like, especially young people right now making music, The barrier entry to making music back in the day was financial. Oh, financial. To even get in studio time was probably crazy. It's still crazy. But a SSL with a two inch 24 track reel to reel, Marley Marr had that in his house.

It was called the Molly House of Hits. And he had a radio line already connected to his system so he could broadcast. Directly from his house. Yeah, this is, he had that shit back, like 91, 92. Wow. Right? So, so I saw that, I saw the SSL in his crib. I saw this, the whole studio in his fucking house, bro.

And so that's what I did. Yeah. You know what I mean? As soon as I, you know, I had a Mackey. What is that? So a Mackey is like two grand, all right? It's a mixer, though, you know what I mean? The Fisher Price.

Yeah, exactly. The Fisher Price shit. But eventually, Of course, I got an SSL. I mean, I bought a million dollar SSL when I made it, but I was like, but get an SSL. So you knew that producing was the key. You knew that that was the stronghold for the business. Yeah.

And I heard, I'll say this with you, but I heard, overheard somebody was like, yo, salt and pepper is making beats now. Right? I think my manager, Mel Quaunney, because he knows everything at the face. He's the one that's in. I'm trying to get in. I said, wow. So, yeah, they paid a 35 grand. to make a track. I said, $35,000.

So he said, when you go platinum, you could charge that. I was like, I got to go platinum. You know what I mean? And yo, I went platinum. Yeah, yeah. Where was the place that you would go dig for samples? Anywhere. But, of course, in the village, there was a, what's that store

right there on Fourth and Broadway? Well, Tower was on. Well, Tower was, like, if you want to, I mean, well, Tower had the jazz section, too. Yeah, yeah. But not far from Broadway. Sixth Avenue. Oh, that's a...

Village Records. That's called Village Records. Was it? Isn't that? On 6th and Bleaker? In Bleaker, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, now, he was smart, right?

You go in there to buy a record, bro. Like, they had, like, he had James Brown Black Cesar, which is an album. You want to get that. And I never got a chance to really make a track off that down in our New York City, but I always wanted to. But he was selling that shit. for $100. Oh, because he knew what it.

Yeah. Like he had the big samples in there. $100, boy. You know what I mean? Because he knows if you're going to use this, you're going to go make a song, you should be for $35,000. Yeah.

Wow. So, yeah, exactly. So, yeah, you're an interesting one because I don't know if anybody teaches you anything. You kind of just observe and then execute. Respect. Of course people teach you. Yeah, I'm not shy to learn from,

from, from, from, I'm going to learn from you today, bro. I don't know about that. I don't know about anything to offer you. Hey, hey, your timing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got it. I got you. You got some timing. My timing's going to be dipping next time you see you.

But is that like, is that your process really? Just kind of like constantly absorbing? Yeah, I think that's what the art is supposed to do. We ingest so you can digest. Yeah. If you don't ingest, what are you going to digest? I do, dude, I think that's, at least that's my theory in terms of like, taking time off from creating sometimes

like you got to live a little if you want to share something with the world exactly and then what I do I like because of my whatever that is in my brain that just keep bonging if I don't take time off I shift

disciplines interesting so it's like okay well because I need to take time off of this thing exactly so like like I'm writing the script right now are supposed to be right in this I was written in 30 days

bro but I got this beat machine that I've been carrying with me Sprite system this little weird beat machine it's cool though and I just been playing with that every day as my pastime

while I'm promoting the film so when I but so by the time I finish getting out of this and seeing the shit I see and I don't probably been to six cities in fucking four days yeah but I'll get him when I sit down

the lyrics for this for these characters will flow out. Announcements. Denver, we have added another show. It's going to be on Sunday. I think 7.15. I believe those tickets are on sale literally this morning. So go get

them right now if they're available. Then I'm going to be out with Jelly Roll. Los Angeles, Netflix is a joke festival. The Greek theater we just had a bunch of great comics on that show as well. Salt Lake City are sold out. You guys have been asking for us to add shows. I will get back to you on that. Then we're going to be Virginia Beach, June

5th through the 6th. Then we're going to be in Halifax, Nova Scotia. Theandrusshows.com for all those tickets. We should be adding some more dates soon. Thank you guys so much. Tampa for great shows. That was amazing. Love you all. Yes. Tampa was amazing.

I also want to thank the good people in Providence, Rhode Island that came out to the show. We had a wonderful time. And if you were in Plano, Texas, Chandler, Arizona, Pasadena, California, San Diego, or Detroit, at the end of the year, I'll be coming to you doing one singular hour of stand-of comedy. Come on out. Take a photo. shake my hand and have a great time. Alex, what's up?

And guys, I'm throwing a tennis series this summer. There's three dates. Just head over to All Love Racquet Club on Instagram. I got the link there. We got music, food, free giveaways, a lot of tennis. It's going to be some... Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa, whether it's Verde, Roja, or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette.

with a flame thrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea, and milk. Habaniero? More like habanier, yes. Save the everyday with Amazon. Fun stuff. What do you think is the thing in you that

you're not scared to just try something new? Because starting the business, even going from the streets to music, to film, like, what is it? Um, I mean, at the end of the day, It's you, right? We're like, who's going to stop you from being you? But you never get scared.

Like, oh, shit, I don't know how to do this thing. And then you just like, I'm going to do it. No fear of failure. No, because, I mean, I don't fear failure. I'll say this to you. I believe the success is completing the task. Okay. Like, to achieve the goal, that's the success.

Whatever happens after that is whatever. You can't control that. Yeah. What about like interest that you took up? Were you ever afraid of being bullied or, you know, like, seen as weird when you're young being into all these kung fu movies? They're like reading Eastern philosophy or Islam. Are you afraid people going to be like, oh, what is this thing you're playing chess?

Yeah. Yeah, I might have a, I might, not now, though. But my high school girlfriend told me this. She had a chance to, like, bring me back all my fucking. letters and shit. Wow. Yeah, just, you know, it was just a time and she was just like...

She's trying to get back in. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. She's totally a sister. No, of course. I'm married, my wife, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's time. Well, it was...

It was to give a memory of myself because I wrote a letter that was very egotistical, conceited, foresighted, opinion of what life is going to be for her and what life's going to be for me. You know what I mean?

Are you right? And, huh? No, she turned out wow. But... But the point of it was that, and I had to say this, my conceit and confidence was almost at a level of naïveness.

can blind you sometimes but that energy meant that that is what I am and I can do so so there's a lesson when you study the mathematics right and you know the mathematics can be controversial to some people but this is this the 5%

yeah the 5% mathematics the first question right it says who is the original man and then it answers the question it says the original man is the Asiatic Black Man, the maker, the owner, the cream of the planet Earth, the father of civilization, the God of the universe. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, that's the first question, bro. Yeah. And you've got to memorize that. So now you're walking around, wait a minute, that's me. That's me. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then later on, there's a, no serious, later on there's another lesson that it says,

this question is crazy. Not crazy, crazy, like, crazy. Like, Mike, but... Mike that out, Mike. But crazy in the sense of, okay, but the question says, why do we let, why did we let a half original man

like Christopher Columbus discover the poor part of the planet Earth? And it says, because the original black man is God, an owner of the earth, and knowing every square inch he chose for himself the best part he didn't care about the poor part now take that into consideration

you got to choose for yourself the best part and once you choose that best part you can't care about the poor part now where's the true best part where you stand where you stand and so with that confidence in me

I got that when I was 11 oh wow so that's deep yeah so now I'm 16 yeah I'm like write her a letter like if you don't choose up if you don't break if you break up with me you're going to the poor part and the fast part it's going to be right so so so so so going back to your question is like with that type of confidence in and and and and and and and no doubt was papa woo always said that too so proper rule i remember papa rule i was like 14 and he you know he's all

always drink vodka. Everything he said made fucking sense. Okay. Off the vodka. As always a guy on a block that. Sover? Nothing is the second that's totally here.

Everything he said made sense. I was sitting there one day had a cold. I just kept sniffing it up. But, you know, he said, now, God, let it run. He's got to get it out to sit. Trying to come out, God. I was like, you're right. That's what I mean?

He said, yo, God. He said, you know, it was something to shoot out shit. He said, man, a lot of, a lot of niggas died from the sound. You know what I mean? So, niggas, they'd be scared. Right? He said, when you consider shooting God, do the knowledge first. Don't fucking let the sound scare you.

Right? People would run. And I was like, and yo, he said that to me. Trust it. And would you believe, like two years later, I'm in the club. Okay. Right? And shots go off.

You start doing the knowledge. Yo, and I didn't know. I seen people move, I said, well, I'm moving. No, they do nothing. Bam, I saw the nigger fall. No, no, no, no. I know you. I'm not exaggerating, you know.

You took him out. No, no. I stole the knowledge, Ricky. Yeah, yeah. Yo. And when the bullet hit him, Hey y'all, when the bullet hit him, we didn't see who was shooting. But I tell you this, bro, when that bullet hit him, the face he made, the impact of that bullet while he was running,

unforgettable. It's almost like a vibration came off this motherfucker's face, bro. Then he hit the fucking floor. Wow. Then after that, one, two, three, four, five, six, because you should count the seven sometimes. Five, six, seven. Okay, for more. Why? Why count to seven?

Because we need a security camp of a shootout. Everybody's running. It's just a few dudes. Like, one, two, four, five, six, seven. Yeah. Because you should try to do things within a pace of seven breaths. You should think seven times. You know what I'm saying?

You actually can think seven times before you respond. That's how fast in my moves. But the motherfuckers is going off the impulse, off the fear. Right? So the punchline I was trying to get to I digress by going to the runny nose And to the shooting but other than Papa who said was like yo god Don't let doubt into you You know that's why old dirty says it on the song Warhy

Because it was he always, Papa Roy was talking to me dirty 12 o'clock you know the young gods He was the older God I'm saying and he would say yo god don't never let doubt into your mind God doubt stops you And so I entered a lot of these arenas without doubt. And Dirty says it on the song, War Hyde. He goes, I never let doubt into my mind because I know when I touch the mic, there's the rhyme.

You know what I mean? So it's like, it's it, bro. Flow. And so that's been my personality with so many things. As you get old, of course, human nature, life experiences failures, right? Like, don't matter like I don't have failures, you know what I mean? But my failure is that failure. It's like we were talking about chess earlier.

Like, I played a lot of chess because you could die a thousand times on the chessboard. Okay, so what? Play again. Yeah. Just make sure that don't happen in life. You know what I mean? So, yeah, anyway. No, I just love this idea of like, don't let Dow creep in.

Yeah, and like the confidence in the power of confidence. There was this thing with Wu, I felt, and not even was, still it is. It just felt like you guys had. decided that you were the best at rapping. And nobody else decided it. And you guys didn't. And then everybody else was like, yeah, I think they might be the best of rapping.

It's like you can almost, you can almost like ooze confidence into reality. And yo, listen, hold on. Now, if you go pound for pound and you write out our lyrics, you might find that we were right. No, I'm not saying you're wrong. I know, I know. But like, it's like you guys believed it. They manifested it further.

Yeah. manifested into reality. Right, right. And then it just became this thing where it was almost like people who were hip hop heads took on Wu as part of their own identity.

Like if you fucked with Wu Tang, it was a way where you could communicate like, yeah, I like real hip hop. I like real rap. Right, right. Opposed to, I don't know, maybe there's some mainstream. Not what I should have to talk about anybody, but it's like,

yeah, and I always wondered where that ethos came from. But it's got to come from you guys believe in it. Yeah. And if it looks like there's fractures in the belief, why would someone else believe it? Exactly. That's true. So if you all felt you were the best who in the group was

the best of the best? But that's good because it interchanged. Oh, so even to you at interchange? Yeah, we talked about that. At one point, yo, like first of all the jizzle was the best. That's who I always thought you thought lyrically was. Okay. But then as time went on,

somebody else could sit in that seat or somebody could say something that year. Like who? One point, Killer Priest was the best. You know what Killer Priest is? No. Exactly, right? But he's one of us, right?

At one point, Killer Priest, we was like, Killer Priest is the illest nigga. What was the song? What was the... He fucking wrote... When he wrote that heavy mental album, and he had to sit almost there. But what happened was he...

You may know him from the... On the Juzza album, he's on that song, Bible. basic instructions before leaving earth for leaving earth yeah yeah right but at one point and so jizzes

he's a juzza student as well so so killer priest me and master killer are all students of the juzza and dirty became my student and the rest of the Roo brothers look at us me dirty and jizzar as the three disciples

the three elders and then they pick it from but then when ghosts became the best yo yeah no seriously ghost became the best and it was like you know what's saying and yo and then even even like like like with ray like like like ray like from 2000 and fucking four or five or something like when he started doing the purple tape part two or we what about what well part one it was ghost that's just like

fucking like who the fuck is this guy like dirty I remember dirty said it dirty was like yo ghost is the best now you know what I'm saying now is there you go between the guys or is there like is there this like camaraderie where you just kind of accept this martial artist is the nicest at this point in time I mean you may feel differently you know I mean so but it's never you know if you feel that way what you're going to do

you're going to go right on so you could on yeah yeah yeah you know who's no who's killing it right now to me almost like 20 bars back to back meth yeah meth is gone crazy what the fuck meth is like He's lifting. Yeah, he went total superhero on the mic in the gym, on the front of the camera.

Yeah. And it's like at one point, you know, he was always. He was nice. Yeah, he was always. Like, trust me, when we first came in, like, every one of them had something from me sitting here as the Abbott that was the best in that field and the best technique that adds to the wool. You know what I mean?

It's like, I knew. ghost and ray with street niggas and all the street niggas is fucking with these niggers, for real. And not no facade. Real. Yeah, yeah. These are the these are the high school dropout felons that's about to fucking make a record.

Yeah. With the talent to do it. You know what I mean? Right. And you knew meth could cross over. Yeah, I knew that's going to be mainstream. And also I felt that, even though as he got, as time changed, I think he he um he he he he he's less flowing than he used to because now he's kind of patterned in his like he kind of has a pattern that he may use 10 times in a row but in the beginning i said

nobody in the industry flows like meth. Meth invent flows that mean in fact if you go back and check method man flows you can find 10 other successful rappers that are taking that took that one flow and it made it their entire the entire flow okay when you guys see you You said this earlier about like, it's important to pass it on. Like, you make the fire and you go do that. When you guys are talking amongst yourselves, are you going, man, look, we birthed all these dudes? Like, are you seeing your influence in music, not just music, but like, especially in music. And is there, like, a pride in it?

Or is there a part where, like, oh, they're biting? There's some sharks out there. You know what I mean? In the 90s, we probably reacted more like biting. But now it's, good, goes, I don't want a nigger sound like me. on no album Yeah I mean

Yeah But then as we evolve It's also like we actually I think we actually appreciate The culture The other heroes And even admired them now Which is seriously

It's a beautiful thing Bro To get out of your own way Brother Yes But hard for creatives Yeah but beautiful Because it's just like

You know It's like Mike Tyson Right Of course he was the champion of my generation or like one of the like come on Mike Tyson yeah come on right but

Muhammad Ali's generation is like not Muhammad Ali Every generation is going to have their own It's like their kids that grow up with LeBron They never watch Jordan play Exactly And we're arguing with them But why would we

They only know LeBron Exactly And now the beauty of it all though Is that there's a Hall of Fame Yes Right and it ain't one person in that Hall of Fame it's hundreds of people but you just got inducted into

unless we got inducted into yeah congratulations brother thank you thank you can I ask you this story about ODB this is this is what I heard from Joe Rogan he references this recently yeah he referenced I saw a clip of it

and I didn't hear the whole story so I'm so curious he is incarcerated Rikers for a period of time and then you and the rest of the squad go to visit him and what happens in that visit well they let us in They let Wu-Tang performing

Raikers, bro. Hold on. Will you perform? Straight up. But do you have to, like, petition the city? Tell us the whole story. Like, what happened? I forgot who did the business.

I think Mook, my cousin Mook, he was on the management team. He might have been the one that kept working his hand and get it done. But Dirty was locked up, bro. And I don't know who came with the idea because it wasn't me.

But it was like, yo, just go and visit let's go performing Rikers we can perform in Rikers with Old Dirty like in jail they're going to let them come and Wu Tanger's going to perform

in Rikers Island bro you know that's great no sister but the funny part I don't know if you could be in prison going ooh baby I like it wrong

you know what's skip that one this guy's good you know what's so crazy Dirty went in there vegan No When I came in We got in there

And he was like lunch He was like He had two half burgers And he was like Yo God fuck that You got to eat meat And this motherfucker God

So you got to eat meat And this motherfucker So you guys So you guys show up And is it planned That there's gonna be a concert Yeah yo Yo seriously

Like they had it set up Bro They let the guys out The shit They let the you know The prisoners to get their little location. They got the wool.

It wasn't a great sound system. This is the producer talking. It wasn't the great sound system. It's just like, but yo, no, but we did that for him, with him, for him, and for, and for the, and for Vickers, bro. Which is crazy in hindsight. Like, like, there's so many things that's kind of like, I won't say a blur, but, like, you bring that up. It's like, that kind of don't make sense.

It sounds crazy to me. Yeah, no. At this phase, it's like, wow, what I would call it? Our commodity, our brotherhood, our single focus awareness. Like, I'm going to say that single, like, it's our world. We're moving in our world, regardless of the world. How do you get so many people to get on board with one vision? that was we that was you know we gave our word on that you know what I mean um did it help that you guys

had relationships prior that it wasn't just an art thing because sometimes people can be looking for opportunity in art not just art but just any kind of like entertainment so maybe the relationship isn't as strong as you think it is because it's actually more opportunistic this is literally family you guys were actually family my mothers knew each other yeah you know I mean Our mothers knew each other. Some dude's first blunt is that Capadonna's house. His mom's let them smoke. And I just talk about Miss Linda like that.

My mom's name is Linda too, though. But I'm just saying. Could be any Linda. Yeah. But, you know, it was just like, but she said she'd rather. It happened there when she could see them than rather somewhere in the streets. You know, Miss Dell, you know, my mom's.

Like Dex said, you know, you know they come to my crib and you can make these demos and you could turn the music up and you could get that music out you know what I mean? That was our some of us our childhood

young adult like me and Ray Kwan's in the third grade together bro crazy so it was just like and he was and not only were in the third grade together he was my best friend you know what I mean it's like he wasn't in the third grade like some kid over there that I remember from the third grade no we walked home from fucking school

that'd be fucking day you know what I mean? Yeah. Before this shit happens. And then, when I saw you on that, then I move to Brooklyn. Yeah.

And shit. I go to a fucking, I'm like 11, 12, go to a weed spot. That's how I was back then. He's working in there in Brooklyn. Like, oh shit, oh shit.

Like, hi-by-d reunion. Yeah. That's how the woo life is like that. You know what I mean? It's like, it was so, connected with this but I think it starts from my mother you got mother

and my mom's like you guys said no when you was in Howard I was living in Howard my mother was living right there it's like oh wow right so our mothers and our mothers had history and vibes and so when we came together

it was another layer some of us not that like because meth is from Long Island yeah but still he moved to Staten Island at 14 got it so now in two years He's part of the cruise. Yeah, he's in it, yeah. Wow.

Wait, but you moved to Brooklyn and then you moved back to Staten Island? Yeah, I've been back and forth between Brooklyn and Saturday. I'm born in Brooklyn, FYI, Kings County Hospital. Of course. All of Luggers are going to die. At that time, it's got better. It's got better. It's got better.

It's got time. Brownsville, baby. You know what I mean? Oh, wow. But my grandmother always lived on Staten Island. So you're there on the weekends or whatever. Or there because, you know, man, let me say one thing about my family, bro. Before I was 20, I lived in 21 different locations. Wow.

Yeah. That's us, but it was always like, you know, like, oh, Linda and those kids back on the streets again. Really? Yeah, it was tough. You know what I mean? Yeah, it was tough. So, but that's, that's New York. It was always something.

Like, oh, my mother just got a new apartment. She sent us down south because she got herself together. Okay, now she's bringing us back. Mind you, it's like, it's already five of us. It's a two-bedroom. Yeah. Right, now it's six, right? Another six kids.

So now we come back, we're happy to come back home. Somebody, I don't know if my little brother, somebody set the mattress on fire. Oh. Brother the fucking place. Back down south. Back to sit down with grandma. Then they all said, oh, you got another place where you live on 169,

Cooper Street. Fucking, that's the L-L train, the Wilson Avenue. Bro, that's a long ride, bro. How did, you guys had, you're 11, one out of 11? Yeah, one out of 11. Where does somebody with 11 kids in New York City live? Wherever they can, bro. No, listen to it.

I don't know. It's, yo, when Ghost, like, when Ghosts wrote the song, because Ghost, so Ghosts, I think he's one of five or six. Dirty is one of seven. Dirty parents, let's talk about New York, they're both city workers, it's far. is transited mother as a 911 officer. So they got Christmas toys.

You know what I'm saying? Ghost house is single mother. My house is mostly single mother. My father moved away when I was three. Then my stepfather moves in, but then he goes to jail. So it's that. My dynamic is that. So my mother is a single mother.

And when we say, a goal said, four in the bed, two at the front, two at the head, yeah, that's my house right there. Wow. You know, man? It's like, yo, too. You wake up.

Somebody told me. I mean, you just think about, like, people live in a closet right now. They might go, okay, if you have a house, you can find different places to put people. When you're in an apartment. Yeah. Let me get you one more of those.

I want to go poverty porn here. But, bro, at one point, 19 people, two bedroom apartment, bro. No way. Check this out. And you're not even Mexican. No, bro. You know what your bed is? You ever see those moving blankets?

Yeah. You got to make a pile. No way. You know what I'm going to school? And I got a girlfriend. right? Like this is I'm like bringing her over? No everything I did was timed

Like I know like if I if I if I leave school early Get there too Nobody's gonna be at the house Exactly But you gotta get her out before 3 30 when the rest of the kids are back Exactly Bro wow It was a very uh

Yeah I didn't have a nickel for the bus Bro I had the bus pass and no nickel I'm not making this up bro Hold on. You know what happens, though? I walk the school.

This is high school. Why? Because they gave you the half fare. They gave you the, no, the half fare was not bad. I had the nickel pass. It's even better than a half fare. All you got to do is pay a nickel. But you didn't even have the nickel.

When I was a kid, I had a bus pass where you could just go or whatever. It was like they gave you the school bus pass. Yeah, but you got 40, you had to pay 45 cents. No, it was totally free? Yeah, in the white schools, they just give you the whole thing. That's crazy. There you go. There you go.

I got the half pass. That's crazy. So it's a half original man. Discovering the poor part of the planet. We let him do it. No, the pass was based on how close you lived to the school. So we lived downtown, but I went to Wagner Middle School. Okay.

Wagner is on 76. Okay, okay. But we live downtown. So I think it was far enough where you got the full... But that's for the train. For the subway, yeah. But you can use it for the bus too. You know, Staten Island.

New South Allen don't really got a train system like that. So they just make you. It's bus. And they make you pay a nickel. Pay a nickel. You got to pay a nickel. And would the bus driver ever not let you on for... Bro, some days I got on because I put my hand over that motherfucker.

You know? Kicking a kid off the bus for not having a nickel. He's crazy. They kicked me and my little brother always telling me this story. Because this happened in Brooklyn, though. So Dirty House, he lived in Lyndon Plaza. So now I move back to Brownsville I'm living in Van Dyke Projects

Okay Right which is tough That's it right there Yeah This is this is the eighth grade though So like I said I live 21 places bro Yeah I've been to

If I go do the list of schools I've been to You know what I mean Most people go to two You go to three schools You go to elementary Middle High School done Yeah no bro

You went to 20 Not 20 schools But I went to a lot of schools I went to For elementary, I went one, two, or three, five. Jesus. For junior high, I only did two in junior high because junior high is a short stretch,

but I did IS 61 on Staten Island, and then I went to 275 in Brooklyn, which is on Rockaway and Higman. Listen. How is that? Is that by you? No, no, no. That's Rockaway Boulevard. You know where Amboy and all that shit is? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. It's just like, like, like, MOP? Those are real. They real. Like that neighborhood, those are my homies back in that day. You 13 years old with the dude you hanging with in the 8th grade, he's 16. You know what I'm saying? 16 in the middle school. Yeah, he's 16 in the middle school, yo.

And that school had a fucking... Driving you to middle school. Yo, that school had a fucking... Bro, it had like another, like a mental health wing. Like a mental impaired wing. Oh yeah. They put the re-reason up. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. They should do like that. Oh, you think it was too close. Yeah. There's a spillover? That's not a good idea. You know what I'm saying?

You had a few trickle into your class. Like, you're dealing with some, you're dealing with a lot of, a lot of different problems, bro. Anyway, but anyway, just get out of that. What happened? What happened? That's what I did, though. In which way? I didn't know what happened when they were mixing the classrooms. Man, what type of shit, bro?

You're dealing with... First of all, you're dealing with... First of all, that school, the school is... Trust me, that school was like... It was dangerous, man. Okay? And maybe I was, you know, I was naive. Part of the fucking danger at the end of the day, right? They are running with, you know, running with the, with the, but yo, like, like, like, like, like, students from that school, you know, they made the paper. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Yeah. You know, like, like, like, someone, this is don't shoot in here, shooting here, deaf hair, deaf hair, deaf here, death here, death here. So, so there's two things that's happening. One, you're dealing with poverty and oppression and communities. Two, you're dealing with now taking these, these communities, this, this, this, this, and you stuff in all this fucking.

energy in one place. You got some motherfuckers that ain't playing with a full deck. They're up in there too. You know what I mean? You got girls that's up in there too. They, they loose and it's too much shit, bro. Then you got teachers that don't care. I did have one teacher that did care, right?

That's who that care. But there's one teacher, I never forgot his name, but I won't forget his moment. I was scientifically advanced. my ideas about science was like you know what I mean and they they wanted to send me to

Stuyvesant oh wow yeah you know what I mean it's like I was there for anybody who's not from New York City Stuyvesant is like the elite of elite schools in the city that you have to test into and like I didn't get close there's Stuyvesant then there's Brooklyn Second Bronx science yeah and those are the three like

Most elite educations you can get in New York City, outside of going to some fancy private school. And even a fancy private school, I don't know if the education is going to be as competitive as a society. Is that? Yeah. And, but I just started playing hockey. Hmm.

Really? Yeah, started playing. So the teacher sees you and he's like, all right, this kid is actually really sharp. We have to do something to harness this energy. We got to get him out of here. Yeah. Because there's a direction he can go here.

Yeah, we're going to send him over there. And then my drama teacher, I do them his name, Mr. Greenberg. he realized that I had this type of like the thugs was listening to me oh so you had like a leadership call yeah the um the skinny dude got all the big motherfuckers

fucking with him right and so he realized that it's like they keep gravitated but I was kind of my knowledge was was ahead you know what I mean so does he pull you aside and say something yeah he's like okay I want you guys to perform at the school at the school play

with a big school performance this year right I'm a pass all of y'all basically if you guys do this and motherfuckers he says and I want you to kind of lead it right so I get the team together right and I put together

an idea that we're going to do like a pre we're going to be preachers and you're going to do a sermon and we're going to do all this shit right and it's kind of And we do it for the teacher. We rehearse it. And he's like, you know, he's like you, yeah, it's going to work.

The day of nobody shows up. Damn. But these are, trust me, these are ducks, they're not getting on that stage, well. That's how, like, the fear of talking to public is greater than the feel of shooting people in the streets. Yo, you know what? Yeah.

Isn't that great? Isn't that crazy, though? But what happens is that, but this is what I learned from that. That is great. Wait, do you still do it, though? Well, no. Check it out. That's what I learned.

I get there, and it's a slot. And Mr. Greenberg is like, I'm like, nobody's here. He's like, go, go do it yourself. I'm like, he says, go do it yourself. And he walks away. And the slot is coming. Like, it's like 20 minutes of the slot. I'm like, like, what the fuck?

Like, I'm thinking about it. And then I go sit in the fucking audience, bro. Wow. And when the time comes, guess what happens? The curtain opens and fucking Mr. Greenberg is there by itself. And he pissed on the fucking greatest improvisation I've ever seen in my fucking life. He's using different voices. He's doing all types of shit, bro.

I mean, blowing my fucking brain. And I was like, holy shit. And I learned from that moment That's your, bro, just do it Just do it Just do it No doubt I left school

I never went back to that school After that moment After that moment bro Why? This is like towards the spring They're getting close to summer Fuck school Right

I'm just saying You can't learn in the spring Yeah The weather The parks open I'll go to 42nd street Sitting the fucking Theater

Then they started Then you get arrested Right Back in those days, there was arresting, the motherfucker. Me and Dirty was in the back of truant vans weekly, bro. I don't know. You think about this shit, bro. You think about this.

Where the fuck is the system at, right? I guess the system is that. The system is penal. Yes. The system is more penal than, yeah, that's what it is. It's not trying to create opportunity. It's penal. It's penal.

Yeah. So anyway, but yeah, I don't know how we got to all that shit. We're going on some rabbit homes. So what do you do? So you leave school?

I leave school. Do you leave out of like guilt or shame? Or do you leave just out of like... Both. Interesting. So you did feel... No, I felt fucked up that I felt fucked up that I didn't stand up for the moment.

I felt even more fucked up, but yet I was inspired that, wait. Because I never even seen my teacher do this shit, bro. So you saw a different side of him and you're like... Yeah. In fact, he always said, like his claim to fame was that he was invited

I don't know if it was the Grammys or the Oscars but he did something that he got an invitation to California, whatever that was. And that was like his claim to fame. He's just a Brooklyn school teacher, white man, green eyes. Kind of looked like

kind of had a little bit of oversized Hackman in him. A little jean. He had a little Gene Hackman in him and shit. Mr. Greenberg. That's, you know,

you know, we don't believe in story. Yeah. Like, yo, yeah, I've been, you know, I've been, he's an English teacher and the drama teacher. Right. But when he did that, I believed him. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Sorry. Did he do a rendition of, like, your play, or he just freest out? Yo, he just freest out. Bro. Wow. He did, he did voices. He did Abbott Costello shit.

Yo, this dude was good, bro. He was killing it. I'm telling him, I was like, holy shit. But then, like I said, I kind of whip it out of there, didn't go back to class. I was smoking weed already by then anyway. So let's know that, which was sad. I don't smoke weed now.

Thank you. But I was, you know, just ran with my man, Scientific. Shout out to Scientific. This dude is Scientific, yo. It's another guy who taught me, son. Let me tell you where he taught me. So now, this is like all the same, like,

last two months of that of me being at this school i'm getting out of here okay i'm leaving but but scientific he never come to school anyway but it's me and him another brother general born and some other brothers and shit and you know you know we who we are down but nobody's really coming to school that much but me right and then there's this big giant motherfucker bro that i don't know how i got into a beat for this nigga bro but this nigga had it out for me he had to be 17, well, or either from the special ed side or something, but this dude yo, this dude,

you know what I did not have the confidence to fight this dude. You know what I mean? I'm 12 going on 13, right? 13, whatever, going on 14 maybe, whatever. Whatever, whatever, I didn't have it. You're not fighting a 17 year old. You're not fighting a boy, man. And he was and his physical

appearance you know what I mean? Not some dudes like, yo, they look like it. Yeah. He got the size and he got the fucking look. And he just was like, yo, after school. You know what I mean? He's going to do me in and shit.

And, yeah, I had to duck out early that day. You know what I mean? And when I did, I ducked out. I went to my man's scientific neighborhood. Scientific was selling weed and all that. So he was already swinging. And I caught up with him. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, yo, you know, yo, this, yo. No, in fact, no, I caught up when I didn't tell him. Somebody else told him. Oh, that you had the fight and then you weren't there. Yeah. So you pull up with Scientific, scientific's like, yo, why aren't you? Yeah, so I'm like this, right? Scientific is up here to me at the time.

He's like Joe Pesky type shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The giant dude is up here, okay? And scientific comes to school. You don't never come to school. He comes to school the next day, bro. And comes to my class and everything. And then, you know, come to class, we get out the class.

And he said, hold on. Who was it? I said, oh. He said, oh, him? Yeah. Come on. Walked over. Grab this motherfucker by the collar, bought him smack him twice.

Pow, pow, pow! Do you ever fuck with Rakim? My name was Rakim then. You ever fuck with Rakim again. Yo, you know. You know. You know. He's my son. That's my son

Whoa Yeah I was inspired Like a motherfucker That was a David Goliath Moment for real y'allel And I took heed to that Wow

Like like two things One One is great to have Somebody that's championed with you Oh hell yeah You know I mean Nobody takes over nothing You know

No general No king takes over the country Without good generals You know I mean No general takes over without good soldiers. You know what I mean? So that's vital. And then you got to know when to be the general,

when to be the soldier. You know what I mean? I was a general at that time, too, because, yo, he just did that for me. No reward, no return. He just, don't fuck with him. Yo, somebody just told me this the other day. Wow.

Okay, I'm going to shout you out. What's up, Ellis? So Ellis, he's method man's manager. He just told me a story that he never told me. He's proud of us being in the Rockville Hall of Fame. And he just told me about some shit that was going down in the hood back in the day where, you know, some dudes had it out for me. It was just a little neighborhood war shit. But he told them not.

They came to get him to join the fight against you. Yeah. And he told them not. math or Ellis? Ellis said, no, I'm not doing it. He said, now that guy's special is going to be a star. How old are you at this time? Maybe 18 now.

Maybe 17, 18. And so this beef is potentially very dangerous beef? Yeah, at that time, yeah. Wow. Yeah, and he just told me that. He just shared it with me. He just shared this with me, like, after the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame announcement. He said, yo, yo, I'm going to tell you something.

I never told you, yeah, basically. Like, he saw that. he saw that I was trying, and I was striving, and I had an energy, you know what I mean? So I think that's been one of my blessings in life is that, is that sometimes there's always one amongst you that is the Noah. He's the one. He's the one that could build the arc. Yeah. He's the one that could guide you out. You know what I mean? And not just putting it all on myself, I think me and my brother, Devon, we kind of like, we become out.

We become the molders and the arian of our community. We become that molders and Aaron that's able to, if you look at Wu, there's a lot of people that comes out. It ain't like two. You know what I mean? It's, it ain't even just the 10. Right?

It's hundreds or reality. But even on the artist side, you start going to Sons of Man, Roy, UFam, Killer Army, Black Knights, North Star, Cream Team. I can keep going. the TMF, you know what I mean?

Like, you could keep going, GP, like, you can keep going, right? Everybody had a chance for a better day. Everybody had a chance for like, yo, you know what I mean? We could do this, you know what I mean? I don't care if it's 30, 40,000, 50, 60 grand a year. Better than nothing. Exactly, it's a chance, you know? And some of them is hundreds of thousands.

Yeah. You know what I mean? So, so that's, so, so, so that, I'll take that. blessing in my life to be to be what they called the abbot and I probably was even the abbot back in junior high school I probably was an abbot in high school not even

conscious of it not identifying it and doing all the negative shit even in the negative world I mean it was like 22 people in my crew bro oh really? Oh wow wow wow you know what I mean but I was leading them to nothing like he got shot he got shot he got shot wow but then in the positive side

you know everything turns out around families, communities are better. Did any of the negative stuff follow you into the positive side? How long before that subsided? Were you concerned, as you guys are on this rise to superstardom, that some fuck shit from back in the day was going to catch me? Wu-Tang was... They were involved with a lot of...

Yeah, I mean, you heard about the fucking... The Delphonics come to do a song with the Wu-Tang clan. You know what the Delphonic's are? Philly Soul Group. Oh, yeah. You're not. Here I come. They, like, we big fans of their shit, right?

Yeah. Ghostface, oh, he loves them. Yeah. And William Hart, Major Harris, Major Harris is the one who made the song, Time Won't Let Me Wait, the one that Luther Vanchers did over. Anyway, these are big soul songs for us, right?

They come visit us to do a song, and then somebody like, let's do a piece of run. I don't know, a piece of blunts and four. these and some paper. I didn't go. I had to stay in the studio. I'm working on the track.

Come back, man. The van got shot up. No way. Yeah, buss and shots. And they was like, hey, man, don't worry about the blood. We've seen all that city in Philly.

Wow. But I'm just saying, yeah, of course. The element of danger was there. All right, guys, you see the light. You know what time it is. All right? You know what time it is.

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that's SPA-C-E-80 to Matt to the licensed therapist today. Go to Talkspace.com slash flagrant and enter the promo code, Space. 80. Now let's get back to the show. Guys, in the spirit of New York, a great New Yorker, Riza, the Rizza on the podcast, Bobby Dedge. I wish that we got to talk about our New York Knicks. You think he's a Knicks? What do you mean? There's no choice to be anything but. I mean, I don't know. He lives in Ohio for a little bit.

He lived in Charlotte for a little bit. What's coursing through his veins? From Brooklyn. He grew up born in Brownsville. What's coursing through his veins? I don't know. It's the New York Knicks. It's the Knicks. Maybe.

What are we doing right now? He's a good guy. I still got playoffs I want to go to. No, in all series, this Nix taking this series. By the time this comes out, because we're recording this Tuesday. Yeah. Game tonight. We'll be up three two. Yeah. We'll be up three two. And then I think what did the chance, what do we have, we have at? at the winning the series. Is that 69%? What does the couch you have? 69%. 69%. So it's light. It's light. It's light.

I mean, it's picked up from last week. Last week we were looking at this and the odds were like, you know, 16 or something. No, no. No, no. Don't be crazy. You're talking about the side of your face. You're talking out the side of your face. That's not a thing. You know, cut that off.

Yeah, cut that off. Yeah, cut that off. I understand. Cut that off. You could put the magic's odds? Because I don't know if you guys have been seeing, but the boys down in Orlando have been cooking. I mean, they just won against Detroit. You know, buddy give a fuck. Not the old magic

So Detroit's the first scene. Look at the volume on it. Look at the volume on it. Go go look at the volume on it. You got 24% chance of winning. A milled, bro. A million. 1.7, right? All right, go look at the volume on the next. Okay, what do we got?

Wait, wait. One point eight. Not something got to be off. Something got to be off. No, bro. If you want to, if you want to make some money, You got to back up the Orlando Magic. I'm telling you. I guess they're gambled.

They're the eight seed. They're the eight seed. Because there's nothing to do. There's nothing to do over there. Bro. Yeah. I think it's more of a boredom thing. No. Yeah.

No. They got money. They know how to make a come up. How do they find time to watch the games in between like cheerleading conference? Okay. There is a lot of cheerleading conferences. Like how do they do it?

There is a lot. There's so many cheerleading conferences. That's what you do. That's second screen viewing right there. You just pull up on the side. While you're watching a cheerleading. Howl just fucking put up 20, yeah. It's kind of nice.

I mean, Cade Cunningham had 25, but coughed it up eight times. All right. Then this is your angle of, or sorry, not that part. This might be the most fraudulent first seed we've seen in a minute. I mean, you're telling me you win 60 games. You can't score for five minutes in the playoffs. Punch license, this is your style. Detroit plays like a team that just discovered the playoffs are harder.

Right? I mean, come on, well, hot take, clip this. Or cut that part. If Orlando wins a series, it's going to be the one of worst collapses for a first seat. It says a modern playoff history. This is career altering for Trey Young and the Hawks. You know the worst collapse in history is I think it was your grandma's rectum in that. Hold on.

Stop. Okay. No, I actually cut all that stuff out. Cut all this stuff out. Remember when you're wrecked them collapse? We can't put this in, bro. My nephew's been watching the show. Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry.

Sorry, sorry. What's the odds on your grandma? That's not a couch. That's not a couch. Oh, yeah, the closer line. Detroit season went from work contenders to We're a documentary. Anyway, let's get back to the show.

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or visit Connexonterio.ca. In that early crew, who was the funniest one? Like, especially when you were, like, growing up, like middle school, high schools. There's someone that sticks out of like, yo, he was the funniest guy. I mean, dirty is the funniest, bro. Yeah. Dirty's the type of dude, bro. I don't know, you know, you got children and all that.

But know that your pops the type of nigger, yo, that wrap the paper towel around his dick because he didn't have a condom. Put a dish rag on his shit, bro. He might have been in the other school. Put a dish rag on that shit, bro. You know, that is hilarious. Yo, I always wonder. A lot more, we need more dirty stories, man.

That's super absorption that. That might work. I've seen the commercials. I've seen the commercials, though. Nothing drips from holding up. That's the brawny brawomen. We came from fucking, I told Joe Rogan this story the other day, but I say he was the ultimate, ultimate expression of freedom. In fact, I'll tell you a different story.

Yo, the dude, the dude fucking takes the car. Like, yo, I want to go. Like, yo, chill, we make it a song. We got the moon mansion. We got the studio in the basement. the whole Mali Maw thing, right? He got hours. All right, so let's make some songs.

All right, all right. I's got to run out and do something. And, yeah, I think I know what he had. A B and whatever the fuck he had. Goes out, tears the car up, crashes, comes back, asks for somebody else. He's going to get another car.

Yo. Yo, he gets it, though. No, who gives them the car? Me. Of course. Of course. Of course, it's me, right? Yo, doesn't make it out the driveway.

Another one. But now, mind you, the driveway is a little back cave shit. Don't do this. No, no, no. Give us some justification. The driveway, bro, is going to the back cave. It's like this. It's like the driveway is at least three New York City blocks.

We live, the house is in the fucking, was Batman shit. Yeah, right? So, there's a chance at high speed going out. Yeah, he's clipping some. What kind of car are we talking?

First he fucked up the BM. I think for me it was my range rover. Okay, so he fucks up that one. Yeah, he, then he wanted another one. But somebody came and got him instead. And the big idea, where the fuck was he going? Nowhere.

That's the thing. What you call, yo? Did he ever say? where he was going. Yo, what you call him? Rest in peace to 12 o'clock. So, so there was this dude

that would give us, get us cars. Like, you know, you can find him, right? Like, first of all, to be honest with you, we don't got license, bro.

He's sitting on a half a dozen cars with no license. Okay. Let's just keep it real. Yeah, yeah. This is hip hop, right? Yeah. Yo, I don't got,

I didn't get a license to like, oh, 0-2-0-3 is 12. I got my license like in California or something shit when I'm with my new wife or something. I don't drive now at all. But 12 tells me Dirt just got the new Benz.

This is, he's happy. Now he is the type of dude that he, like he drives like a maniac. Yeah. I'm not here for this. So I don't even do it as a scribe what somebody told me. me. On the BQE,

he crashes the car. The car flips upside down, bro. Okay. Dirt gets out and just leaves. Okay. And left, 12 o'clock is in the car still. Just upside down? He just left.

Bro. What happened to the other dude? He's okay. But he was like, yo, the nigger just left. And went to try to get another fucking car. No way. I'm not exaggerating this shit, bro. 12 is just upside down.

I was like, yo, what the fuck? I was like, what the fuck happened? Take on my seat, believe. You were six o'clock. Let me digress to something. So, anyway, first of all, thank you for inviting me. Dude, of course. I'm doing a big press run for my new film.

Oh, no, I want to talk all about the film. I lost you last night. by the way. The reason why I'm breaking it up is because my character is named Unique. Yeah, yeah. And ODB, name is A-San Unique.

Okay. So I named the character after him. That's awesome. And there's a scene in the movie where the car is upside down. Yeah, yeah. But this time, this guy helps. So a point being made is like,

like, like my love for my cousin and for him, I'm glad that my, that I'm able to be artists that I could find ways to inject real life stuff. And I make it magical, of course. But, you know, ODB's older brother name is Ramsey. That's why in my story is unique and it's Ramsey.

And my older brother name is Randy. And that's why his government name is Randy. Oh, wow. So the, yeah, you said the ODB is the ultimate expression of freedom. Yeah. Is that the magnetism? of him? I think so. Because I remember, I mean, I'm sure you remember the moment

where it's like, it was like MTV was obsessed with him. He had crossed over to. And I don't know if you could write, not you, of course, you could, but like the average person, I don't know if they could just write down why they love this guy. But it was a visceral reaction

before you could like game algorithm and like promote something. Like, I don't even know if MTV was going, is this the right thing to promote? Right. It didn't even matter. Right. It didn't matter.

You could make the argument that he was doing everything for them not to promote him. And it was working. Right, right. It was like true rock star shit. Yeah. And not rock star in like the contrived version where you've seen rock stars try to pretend to be rock stars. Right. Like, okay, like my forefathers put all the furniture in the hotel room on the ceiling.

So I'm going to do that. Right, right, right. It was like watching something that didn't know how to exist in any other way, perform. Yeah. He, bro. Yeah, talking about hotels. Whoa.

I was just saying, yo, bro. You know how many hotels got destroyed by the system? Tell me. Yo, I remember Steve Riffick and myself. This routine ain't even popular yet, bro. They invited us to the, uh, whatever, the BMG conference or some shit. And they're trying to like convince the exact. that this is the new group.

Yeah. They're going to be this, they're going to be that. The single is doing well, but put money on these guys. Yeah, right? And fucking, we go there and they want us to perform in front of them. And we do, first of all, dirty stars to perform us off. It's just based on somewhere over the rainbow. Okay. So that's the give you, but.

That night, yo, this is great. No serious, bro. But that night. What are these execs? What are these execs in some sense? That's no saying. But forget that. But then that night, bro,

and I'm not going to out like I wasn't part of it. Like, because I can sit there, I like talking about him. But still, I'm going to give him the ringleader role of this. Bro. I don't know what made him get the idea. I don't know if we, because maybe the girl was in that room or this or whatever, you know, groupies or whatever.

But he was like, yo, your God, I got this fire hydrant. Right? Fire extinguisher. Yeah, yeah. Say yo look at this shit You hit one puff and they're like it does it does this He's like yo let's go hit nigger's rooms Okay

Yeah I did it They opened the door It would light up the whole room Yo just like boom on Or even you could put it like right there and push it through And then put it through Whoa. But now, I mean, everybody was heated.

Meth was super heated. He had a dime piece in there probably back then. I don't know. But, you know, I don't know. Just opens the door covered. First of all, you don't realize that that stuff is not easy to come off. Yeah, yeah. Fire extinguishes shit.

Fire retarded. Yeah, you've got to basically throw that couch away. just really the whole and so now Steve I've got to get this bill and he didn't

complain then he just he talks about it now like you don't know you fucking got like you guys like the

like we had the chairman of BMG there bro and they fucking came with this fucking bill for Wu Tang clan he was like

he had to convince them it was gonna be worth it yeah he was right he actually said he might have said like they rock star

He might have used that as a fucking slogan unintentionally. And here we are. And rock and roll. That's five. Wow. It's just, yeah. I always wondered, like,

in the 90s, everybody's trying to be, like, gangster and all that type of stuff. Why did ODB choose old dirty bastard for his name? Well, I gave him that name. Because most of our names come from inspired by Kung Fu movies one way or another. Okay. So there was a,

You know, in the Kung Fu, runoff of you guys, you always watch them. But they always say, you old dirty bastard. They always see that. Oh, that's the translation. That's the dubbed over version. And then there was the, and the drunk master was always considered the old dirty bastard. And Old Dirty did the drunken style.

As we say, my style, I do the drunken style. I mean, he could drink 1040s and still get on the microphone and bust your ass. Oh, okay. And he actually gave Ray Kwan the name the chef. Ray Kwan had his name, but Dirty was like, nah, he's the chef. He's the only one that kind of like That dirt actually gave that title Rayquan was Ray Juan, but the chef

Why do you make him the chef? I feel like it was for two reasons One from the movie The Mystery of Chess Boxing There's a character called The Chef That ends up teaching the student But you don't know the chef could kill and kick ass Ah, yeah, yeah So I think that was one of the reasons

And also, you know, cooking up This by the way Yeah, cooking up marvelous styles I pour yours and you poor months cooking up marvelous styles so that's why you got the chef course ghost face killer from the movie

mystery chess boxing ghost face killer everybody wanted that name though yeah that was a high after the fire extinguisher everyone was ghost face didn't he break out of prison

one time to go perform with y'all in New York or like that not break out of prison a rehab facility or something they was looking for him and he fucking left and he showed up at the Hammerstein ballroom

in disguise. Mossey the disguise as what did he had on? Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. Mark, you want a little?

I'll get a glass. Miles, can we get one more glass in for? You got to start. You got to start. Okay, so the Hammerstein ballroom. He's in disguise. He pulls up. He probably still has like a medical bracelet on or something. Yo, that was a weird night.

I bet. There was something beautiful about it, though. Because he was there. And he wanted to be there. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I was so happy. I kind of, I don't like how I reacted that night.

Like, I think I did it. I think I was wrong that night. Why would you? I think I was, like, too happy and too in the moment of the brink. and too in the moment of the visual look of it that I didn't really take the consideration of the danger that my cousin was in.

Yeah, I think I was too much being a fucking avid executive type of... Chasing the success and what this event would be and how amazing this would be received. Yeah, I think I was fucked up in that... Because I saw the footage of it, and I Doty said, No, I res now, I can't stay long. like I can't like and I was like you know like oh we got that man fuck all that shit

boy this shit is serious and I just that that that was I think that was a thing that's been a few of my I'm gonna speak my thing that's a few of my flaws is that the the the the the like the this small humanness of it it's more human compassion of the moment I may sacrifice that for the bigger picture. Yep. And then you've got to say it's the bigger picture worth it. I mean, hindsight is 20-20 or whatever the cliche is. It's easy to look back as someone who's achieved all the things and go,

oh, I wish I did those little moments differently. But that perspective also might have allowed you to have 100 people escape poverty and, you know, live their dreams. Somebody said that. Tarantino said that to me one day. Because one day I really was really like, I don't know, I felt like going back, it was shit happening, and I just felt like, I don't know, maybe I should fucking do something, you know?

And he was like, come me, sit down. Let me pour you a drink. Actually, he said, I'll make you a margarita. So he makes me a margarita. He loves making a margarita. It makes me a margarita. And he did say this to me. And I'm not taking back what I felt wrong at,

because I do realize that for the W, my sacrifice, yo, I wouldn't even, like, if my mom's wanted to come, no. Why? Because I felt like what we was doing was just too much and too that for her. Well, that's being protective of your mom. Yeah, I had a respect for her almost. Yeah, I didn't want her to see me jumping up cursing like that either. Yeah. Now, I'm sure as a parent, you're like, one of my kids has achieved something that...

Yeah, he's Moses. Yeah, it's like almost nobody in history has achieved, and I just kind of want to witness it. Yeah, I don't care if you're cursing, bro. She knows you're her curse words. I was wrong about that. But then also, like me and my siblings have been talking, and it's just like, at one point, if you wasn't woo, bro, you couldn't see me. Really? Yeah, it was that tight. Well, I was so engaged You know

Oh, wow I'm serious I mean my first house I remember I said I bought my first house to Cleveland Which was I would drive by the Rockable Hall of Fame All the time too

So it's a blessing to be in there But I bought that house Whoa, that's wild Yeah, that's crazy But I bought that house To move My woman and child To Ohio

So that The Staten Island house Can be the studio And I stayed there. Interesting. Okay? And I stayed there. I'm talking like months and funk and,

and liquid swore than Cuban links, bro. It's like, when Ray Kwan said with the boots that paved the way, nigger, I didn't change my shoes, bro. He was like, yo, these niggas wearing that same. You wearing them same shit for two years, Abbott. So I'm just saying that I'm not knocking it. I'm just saying that when you think about those moments like dirty on stage, his life

is on the line in all reality and I'm like the woo is more important than this moment yeah and what happened

the next two days later he gets put back exactly and I didn't even get like I didn't even get like my love for him is like in the Bible

says David and Nathan I don't know if you read the Bible I don't know about David and Nathan but you know the story in the Bible is like the reason why David lives and while he doesn't kill Saul, he become the king, because Saul's son was Nathan and he was, you know, the prince.

But David is about to become the king over this nigger's father. Right? But their love was so strong, like their spiritual love, like it wasn't the, I mean, some people were trying to misinterpret that shit, I don't know, but it was, it was their spiritual love was just like, yo, that's my man. Yeah. That's it, y'all. And they was like this.

And that, they was, and that love was so strong that it helped David become the king. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, I'm saying, me, A's son. And severing that love wouldn't allow him to be the king that he needed to. Exactly. And so, with A'son, it's just like, in that moment, it's almost like I even sacrificed that love because I didn't even give him that fucking hug. I'm not going to see him until years later

when it's not even him. So that's what I mean in hindsight. I'm like, okay, for the wool, what a sacrifice. And that's my family. Like, he's our brother. And all of us love him. And all of us probably could say something very similar, but he's also my blood.

So that's another equation there. Do you regret not spending more time with your kid and having them go to Cleveland? I don't regret now. I have a beautiful wife, and my new wife came in and helped me raise my children. My ex-wife, we ended up, you know what I mean? And my new wife came in.

And my son, you know, I know we're going deep here, but my son said this to me, and all praises it's due to Allah, because I'm happy that I can hear my son say this. He said that he didn't miss me. me because when I was there, I was so present. He was like, his friends, he's like, my friends asked me. I was like, oh, no, like, dad, no.

Like, like, dad is a type, and I'm that type of dude, bro. Like, I mean, even right here, I'm fucking, like, but the, like, I'll put on a, I'll make a movie just for my son. Like, you know what I mean? Like, look at this. I made for you. Like, and I'll sit with his toys. And then I score it.

And then I score it. Like, I'm that type of, like. I'm like, you know, I'm that type of, I am, I mean, when I'm there, I'm engaged. Yeah. So he said, so he told me he didn't, you know, all my sons, you know what I mean, but daughters may be a little more, more takes a little more. And I figure, and I gave more. Like when it was, when I realized, when I was, and I said as any father,

that when you realize that something is off course in your household, you got to get in there. Get in there, bro. Take the time. Be patient. You know, my daughter, I didn't know what to do, right? I didn't know how to communicate with a it was I was working on that TV show gang related and we had this this other guest actress who made me have two episodes with us and you know she you know she would hear me vent because the lead actor Ramon is you know we became you know a TV show he becomes brothers right so you hear me like yeah my daughter and she's like well girls are different Bobby you need to just text her every day even if she don't respond text, quote all every day.

I said and eventually, say, and eventually she will respond. And about four or five months later, yeah, and then we build the relationship, that's beautiful now. Wow. Yeah, you need to push through that boundary because what she's feeling is that you don't want to be there, and it's very difficult to show love to somebody who is rejecting the love.

But that's actually when they need it the most. Yeah. Yeah, that's tricky. Yeah. The kids stuff, yeah. It's so fascinating. You mentioned this earlier. It's like when you lock in on something, that's like so focused.

And then like you haven't been writing because you're focused on editing the movie and things like that. So you'll get so focused. Have you adjusted to find like balance to be able to do multiple things or is you still operate the same way? I think I got balanced now. It's just like, look. In the middle of this interview, we pour some fucking heaven, sake. You know what I mean? I've not found the balance,

but because there's certain things that I love that I do. You know what I mean? So I love piano. 90% of the time, if I'm home, the first thing I do after a couple coffee is sit by the piano. Get out of it.

You wake up, coffee, and just hit the... Wow. Or the guitar. The guitar is right by my bed, bro. So I get up. I don't have the coffee. You pick the guitar up. And you know what?

I'm not a singer, you know that. But I can sing my wife a song. Quite sure she might, she's enjoying it because it's me. But I know I'm not hearing no Luke Devangels. No, it's over there. But at the end of the day, though, it's I love music. And also, before I face the world, you know what I mean? It's like I try to get myself sometime.

And then the second thing I've learned is, but first of all, the blessings of life, right? So we all would say because you took a year off or something like that, right? So you ran around, you did your shit, but then you home and you fucking, your home is heaven. That is the problem. Sometimes it gets really comfy.

Right, but that's the beauty of going out. Right? Kings don't build castles for kings. Kings build castles for Queens so that when they come home, there in heaven. I've been blessed with that kind of life. You know what I mean? On this project, even more, my wife is a producer.

Nice. I came here from, I left her, she's right in the hotel room, waiting me to come back. Wow. Was that tricky to have her input on the... It's great, great, great, great. Because, first of all, it's truth. Yeah.

It ain't going to be no boys. Yeah. That's Connie. Even, I said something the other day, because she actually sometimes comes to the interview. The other day, I got. I started talking about some sex or some shit. She said after the shit, she was like,

chill out. I'm talking about the sex. I was relating it to something in the film. You've seen the film, of course. It's a nice little scene. Nice little scene. Yeah, got some little debauchery in there too. Yeah, it was.

Oh, yeah. She was bouncing on it, man. She was bouncing on it. It is weird because they're in high school in the movie. You're like, yo, I know these actors aren't. It's art, bro. You got to stop disbelief a little bit. Yeah, so anyway.

But it's in the movie. It's in the movie. But she's right. That's not what the movie's about. Yo, does he nut right when the cops come in? That's funny, right? I thought it was hilarious. I thought that was hilarious.

The second the cops come in and a dude just busts and love it, the girl's bouncing on her crazy. Like, I'm going to be nutted. But he doesn't know. He's stupid. roll up. I want you to be in but he doesn't know to the two cops come in like, hey, put

a guy. What type of internalized trauma is that? You need a little more sometimes. Oh but they got to get him over the edge. Exactly. So that guy, RJ Seidler, plays that actor. Yeah, he's good. He's good, man. You seen him in the

Book of Clarence? You ever see that one? Yeah, that was good. He's good. What's Book of Clarence? That was that was the Keith Big role. Oh, Keith. Jayne produced that.

Yeah, yeah. How did you get Michael Jackson's daughter in that? Paris Jackson. I got lucky, bro. That was crazy. Yo, she... Because I didn't know she was in it. Yo, Mike, until you saw it.

I'm watching, I'm like, you know, is this Mike's kid? Like, this is insanity. Yeah, she, um... My casting agent, Kim Harding, she said that Paris is acting now, and she's looking for good roles. You mind if I send her the script? I said, yeah, send it to her.

And then she responded. Then we got on a June. And, yeah, I was like, you know, the first of all, it would be a pleasure. The thing about her that, I think, is special, is that she don't need to do it. At all. Yeah. At all. Right.

And when you're doing the movie, bro, you got to get up six in the morning. Sit in a fucking makeup chair. Deal with a bunch of motherfuckers you don't know. And then go be somebody that you're not. Right? Most people do it for money. Yeah. Or a lust for fame.

Yeah. She don't need none of that. Yeah. So the only way she could do it if she's a what? An artist. And she is, bro. Really? She loves it.

She's an artist, bro. First of all, she has, every actor got something like Shamig Moore, who's the lead character. He's a sponge. Interesting. He's a sponge. He'll sit here. Soke it up.

Soke you up. Go give you back. You know what I mean? She has what I call the muscle memory of her actor. I've seen that in Uma Thurman and I've seen it in Lucy Lou. Which is the way this table is

it's going If the scene was this She's going to do it again Exactly Exactly Interesting And I was okay I said she's actually meant to be an actress

It's up to her If she wants to be She can easily be Did you ever, did you meet Mike? I've never met Michael Jackson Oh wow No The only one I know when I met him in our crew was Ghost and Ray

because they called me that day. What the, what was, how did that happen? They was, I think they met him, they met him twice. They met him at the hip factory in New York. And then they met him at the hip factory in Miami. Yeah. What did they say when they get out of that meeting? Like, they said he was like a prince.

Like a, like a, like a, not prince to artists. Of course. There was a guy. There was no, he was like a prince. Yeah, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, I couldn't imagine. Like, he probably like, like, remember I talk about the guy

who had that little small vibration? Yeah. He probably had a vibration that was like, bro. And I see it, and you as, like, a person who's famous, you know it and you probably feel it, right? Like, you know, when you're in a room and people recognize you, you can feel the attention going to you.

Right. And then there's people that, like, like, I remember once I was at the comedy seller, it's a comedy club in New York, and greatest comedy club in the world. I know that. I know, you know, of course. Of course.

And Madonna was there for some reason. And like, I don't think we forget how famous Madonna was. It is. Or is. Of course. But it was a fascinating thing because it's not like there aren't famous people to go there regularly. But she was just at a table. And the feeling was nobody in that room could concentrate on whatever they were pretending to talk about.

Like, you and I are talking. Right. But both of us. are kind of veering off. You're feeling this energy. Yeah. And like, I always wonder what that does to a person. That's vibrating the energy.

And just getting that energy vibrated back. Like, constantly gravity on you no matter where you go. You know, let me give you a small theory on it. And I don't know how those type of people's energy, right? I got my own. But I, so it took me years for my wife to watch me perform. Hmm If she looks, I'm stumbling, bro

interesting. Oh, wow. You know what I'm saying? Why? Why? Does she know a different version of you? Whatever. Like, I don't,

maybe. You know what I mean? It's maybe. It's like, it's like, yeah, it's like, don't look at me. Wow. You know what I mean?

Because is this, you know what I mean? So it could be also, I'm so enamored by her. You know, so it could be, you know, the same way.

But I'm saying, I'm trying to say that, that maybe that's some energy in that to where it's, a celebrity or somebody, they have a chi that that rattles you. You know what? I did an interview on KTLA last week.

And I've watched KTLA every fucking morning. I wasn't really on point the first minute. You were nervous a little bit going into it? Yo, bro, the first minute, I didn't even think I was nervous, though. I was backstage talking the motherfuckers all shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, blah, blah. Yeah, you're going to do. Yeah, cool.

Okay, get me, put the mic on you. Yeah, put the mic right here. I got an inside pocket, yeah. Boom. I sit down and shit. It's like, oh, shit, these ones. I'm gonna focus on the one. It's like, oh, what I was that?

Just froze up a little. It ain't no time for nothing, but like, so, really? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I said, uh, yeah, you know, like, shit, yeah, you know. I ain't, you know what I mean? I'm like, you know what I'm like, you know? trying to get it together, and it took about a beat.

And then I got like, my shit is stoned. But it was like, it started soggy dick, well. Wow. You know, they had to blow on it. Have you met people like that where you just get into presence and you're like, oh, they're cheating

is crazy. Like, they're vibrating at a different level. Yeah. Who are some people that come to mind? I mean, I mean, over the time, I mean, so many different people you meet like that, like you filled them. You know, Mike Tyson was like that to me because I was such a fan.

You know what I mean? He's my brother now, but, like, for me, it's different, right? I can't, like, say the name, name, name, name, name. But I think Denzel Washington had an energy that made me like, kind of like I say a shrinking energy right because that's the best way

to use I think that's a good terminology a shrinking energy motherfuckers that can shrink you you know what I mean and I think he had it on American gangster he's the greatest actor

in the world at the time he's Denzel fucking Washington still yeah still and I just you know like they was like

oh do you want to meet Denzel and I was like Yeah, exactly, right? And it was like, okay, we're going to bring you to his trailer. Now, you don't go to a motherfucker. Only groupie is going to go to your trailer. Right? I mean, I'm a groupie.

Whoa. Hold on, hold on, you know what? That's what I'm trying to tell you. I went to his trailer. But normally, I'm not going to nobody's motherfucking trail. Yeah, yeah. So I go to his trailer. And they knock, boom, boom, boom.

and the door don't open. Now, they came and got me. Oh, no. So they bumped on the knock again. The door never opened, bro. It never opened. Okay? And eventually my car came and took me to fuck home.

Okay. So I don't meet them and this shit, right? So, and I was a little puzzled by it, but, and I always said, my fucking hand was sweating anyway, so maybe it's a good thing I didn't, you know. But then there's a scene in the movie where they say, where Russell Crow's character is going to examine him and go through all the history and they're going to break it all down. And the scene was written that Russell and Vincel are going to have that moment. But Russell, he already built this camaraderie with all the actors and his police force.

And he was like, no, mate. Me and my guy is going to do that. You know, that's like, like I wouldn't do that by myself. whole crew who helped bring this down would be here. That's how it would work. And Ridley Scott was like, okay. You know what I mean? And so now I'm in the scene with Denza. Yeah. Wow.

Right? And bro, he didn't speak to me. Like, he almost didn't look at me. You know? And I remember, like, on the first two takes going back out and really Scott was like, you know, like, what's up with this guy? I got, and I was living in my own head, so I kind of took it a little personal, but it wasn't

not me. He didn't speak to none of us. He spoke to us, okay? And that, even that was, and so it kept, so anyway, this take five. And really, he's trying to tell him, you know, give him some director advice. What the fuck he was saying, right? And now we had take four or five, and it's the same thing, bro. You know what I mean?

I threw some lines in Staten Island, you know, I'm trying to, you know, I'm trying to. You know what I mean? And when you watch the film, the scene is in there. But on the very last moment of the last, okay, we got it. Right? Somebody says something. He said what? I fucking folks. He said, what? Why would I be fucking smiling with a fucking bunch of cops?

I'm Frank Lucas. Why would I be friendly to a bunch of fucking cops? I'm Frank Lucas. He's staying in their character. Oh, wow. Right? Now, I still didn't get it. I mean, how could I? I'm new.

This is my, what, second, third film? Imagine your second third film and you're sitting across Denzel fucking Washington. Yeah, it's a blessing. But I'm new. So now, and I go home now, and I tell my wife, I'm like, I don't think Denzel like me. I said, I don't know, baby.

Like, like, like, I knocked on his door. You know what I mean? Going through every moment. Like, yeah. And she's like, oh, no. She, because she loves Denzel. Of course. And shit.

And so I wanted to be able to come home and say, yeah, Densel of my man. But what finally happens, bro, which shows how amazing he is, now it's the premiere. And we walk in the red carpet, and somebody comes from behind and grabs me and gives me a big hug.

Like from the back and I turn around, fucking Dinsale Washington. Wow. You're great in the film and shit. I'm like, oh shit. He said, take a picture and took a picture with me and my wife and all of us

and I seen him after that and it would be cool. Wow. But I was like, oh shit. And I was, you know, everything was like, ah. Yeah. He knows me.

He likes me. I'm cool. Because you didn't meet Denzel. You meant Frank Lucas. Exactly. Exactly. And that's the kind of professional that he is

and that's the kind of professional that really if you're serious about that craft, right I think that's a smart approach I don't know if I could do that because I come from different disciplines

so I bring a different discipline with it sure you know what I mean but he's one of the best to ever do it so it makes totally total sense and shit he probably tells that story he's like I was waking up the cops is banging on my door

right right right exactly I don't know what the fuck that was and shit all right guys let's take a break for a second guys listen protein bars have been the go-to snack for a quick protein boost. But finding one that delivers real protein without excess calories and sugar has been nearly impossible.

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from rolling countryside to cobblestone streets. Begin your next chapter. Book your seat at westjet.com or call your travel agent, WestJet, where your story takes off. Let's get back to the show. You were telling us a story before of going to this rapper from Detroit, his first album release party. Oh, I went to Eminem's first album release party. I met him there.

I was a party, the only East Coast motherfucker in there, bro. It was in L.A. How did you know about him? Who Eminem? Yeah, because before the album is released, I think the single's doing well. Yeah, the same was doing well, yeah. But he wasn't the sensation immediately.

Well, he, I mean, I think lyric is recognized him immediately. So, okay, so the community, the people who are rap, rap, rap, rap, Your lyrics is recognized immediately. Now, I didn't meet him back. So I had other guys that worked underneath me. When my up-and-coming crew was staying at the Oakwood apartment. So there's a place in California called the Oakwood Apartments. In those days, all corporate mother, all artists would get an apartment as a corporate house.

Someone else has been told me about this. Yeah. It was also, I think, like, if you were doing pilot season. Yeah. Like your mom and you were. would come through like a child actor and you get an apartment there. You get an apartment, the Oakwood apartments. A lot of actors or up-and-coming artists.

Eminem was there at the Oakwood. And he met some of the younger killer bees, like a guy named Hall of Cards and all these dudes. Interesting name. That's his fucking name, bro. Some guys are killer, you know what's bigger than a killer? How did it go in the entertainment business for him? one single

actually rest in peace he passed away you know who could quote holocaust lyric from beginning to end the Jews Steph Rogan bro

get out of here Seth Rogan knew that shit when I met Seth Rogan he knew that whole fucking verse the verse is amazing it's not a

Is it in German Okay I think like like He like I never actually had to say his name like that

I guess You just call them cars Or hollum He was good He had some shit He had some shit It was a West Coast killer bees And shit

But anyway But anyway They met Eminem back in those days And shit And they told me about them And shit Like you know Because they were

They were getting to ciphers You know Okay So they knew And there was like some Newz percolating Yeah But when I went to the album

I just went Like And I think in that phase in my life trying to move I move to Cali or you know I'm talking about fucking that will show up you know what I mean if if if if somebody like oh they got a hip hop so and so and so you want to want to pop in you know I mean yeah why not and I ain't it's a party oh okay yo and I be the only motherfucker yo bro I be the only motherfucker from the east coast in the whole fucking party you know I mean if it felt but there was love for Wu

Tang yeah it was love I know I felt super comfortable And there it is, I mean, come on, Dr. Dre, that's like the godfather of it all. You know what I mean? And even when I first met him, it was like a pleasure, like a joy. I imagine when he meets you, given how much he cares about, especially like rap and lyrics, he's meeting someone he's admired for a very long time. Is there like... It's mutual.

Of course, of course. Yeah, I got to say, you know, no, no, it's mutual. He's getting me... He loves the game. You can really feel like he loves me. He's giving me some great compliments in this mutual. It's like he's one, he's one, if anything, if you wanted the sound like a fucking record,

you got to emulate him. You know what I mean? I wasn't trying to sound like a record, honestly, until I was trying. For many years, I didn't try to, I was trying to sound like the demo. You know what I mean? I'm wanting my shit to sound like, yo, son,

this shit niggas made this shit. That was all purpose. Like, like, I was all purpose. You wanted it to be more. Yeah, I want my shit to be like, yo, bro, fuck that. Lo-fi. Yeah, you know how it is when you first, I mean, especially like, I'm a generation older than you guys, but hip-hop started on fucking tapes, bro, with hisses. You know, he was, he was going to say the house, you.

My dad used to work in NBC. He would, like, produce the news on NBC. He was first in Baltimore, and then he came up, and he did a news story, and it was the first ever news story on, on, on, uh, rap music and he went up and there was a guy named it was up in a Bronx there was a club i forget the name the fever i don't know i got to ask him but uh it was dj hollywood was yeah dj hollywood yeah classic yeah and he was like dude he was like this guy was like he was just kind of freestyle he was going like off the go and imagine like a white dude like grew up new york never heard this shit before he has he's there and everybody's telling him about this like

this is very old my dad's old he's 80 years old you know what and he goes and he actually met with like Russell in his like midtown one office with no desk it was just a telephone and two chairs right right and uh but he said he was it Curtis Blow was there stuff but he said there was something about that like that DJ Hollywood guy right and I was

always curious so like people came up or at least were like aware at the time yeah DJ Hollywood had tapes floating around like I'm more of the era of Cold Crush brothers which is which is you know Cold Crush brothers no okay so Cold Crush I mean, people are arguing that Grand Master Cass of the Cold Crush brothers

is might be the third rapper in history. Really? Like, you know what I'm saying? He might be the third, they're saying there's a guy named Kolkler Rock. Yeah. Right? He might be the first rapper in history. Melly Mel.

Yeah. Grand Master Cass. These are considered some of the first. And if not, definitely in the Bronx. You know what I mean, where it comes from. Right. So, so, yeah, Cold Crest Brothers. That was, that song from the Cold Crest Brothers,

the Fantastic Five, Fearless Four, crash crew. So this is percolating at the time. This is tapes, bro. And this is like, I'm trying to figure out what it connects to. Like, I remember when I was a kid. Do you remember like the Jackass that showed Jackass on the TV?

Before Jackass, there was this thing that Bam Margera and his brother and their friends did. There was a skate video called CKY and CKY2K. And it would mix skateboarding with pranks. Okay. This is the first experience I had with something that was like viral through like handing it to people. In the same way to tapes, I think we're like I remember getting like Big L's tape. Right. Right, right, right, right.

And it was almost people with gatekeep big out a little bit. Right, right. It's a secret, right. Yeah, and I don't know why they felt like they wanted to be secret, but the only way you could hear about shit, it wasn't marketing, it wasn't fucking promo. Somebody had it handed it to you,

and maybe you could, like, burn a copy of it. Oh, yeah, you got your fucking conion box. Yep, and you fucking. Yeah, press record. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so that's, so that vibe and that feeling was always important to me, the vintage sound of hip-hop.

So you leaned into it. When Joseph did his first album, was from a genius, it was in a studio, like he had the demo first. I had the demo on cassette. Then when he put the album done, it, yeah.

So what, you made it more like the demo? No, what I'm saying? It's like, I have the demo of his album, which I love. I love. The album's too refined. Then I get the album and like, yo, it sound like,

What is like what happened? Like something that is like, it don't sound like you. The soul is gone. The soul. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever they did in that fucking mixing board. So,

so now my goal was to make sure that that doesn't lose. So when you put it on 36 chamber, right, this is go to the tape. You turn it over and cream. Yo, you hear the tape. And you hear the tape. And you're, man. And yo son,

like all that shit happening, bro. The chaos. It's real. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's real. And then when the beat finally, drops? Because you don't think it's going to drop.

You know what I mean? And I'm actually doing it live. I'm doing that live. I mean, because I'll be like on the seventh chamber, I pressed every sneer

manually. Wow. So you're keeping the timing yourself. Yeah, every fucking sneer. And you can hear it flat, blah, blah, blah, whatever. I get it. I got it now.

You know what I'm living it. You know I mean? It's not perfect, but it's real. Not perfect is what people... The guy that does the audio... You met him earlier at the time because SETA, he's the best that, in my opinion, doing audio for stand-up comedy.

But the thing that we always talk about when we're filming specials is, like, you need to hear the audience. Sometimes people who do audio for stand-up, they just want the words to sound perfect, and then the audience. And I go, when you're at a comedy show, sometimes you don't even hear

what the motherfucker's saying, people laugh. Someone's ordering a drink behind you. Yeah, glass somewhere. Just like making... That's smart, yeah. Like, give people that experience where they feel like they're there. That's smart, because your special actually do sound good.

Yeah. No, no, seriously. Shout out to Tom. You know what I mean, because I've seen special where it's like it's so like it's hollow. Like, somebody put a filter over that shit. And they do. Mm-hmm. Because they want to make it perfect for the standards of what, you know, the stereo should be.

Yeah, right. Netflix want it like this. It's not a sitcom where with a laugh track. Right. It's human beings who laugh at weird times. Sometimes they laugh late. Sometimes they're kind of like repeating a word from it. Right.

Make it ugly. It's like Richard Pryor, right? Remember when they're walking in when he was live in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A guy walks out to him and takes a picture. It's like it's so real. It's the realest moment. And he lives off it.

He lives into it. I think that's one of the special sauce with Wu is that you felt like it was not only the characters, right? Characters, I'm using that. Respect, but like not only the people that populated it, but also like the sound, everything about it felt so authentic that it made things that

weren't that feel mainstream or I don't want to say processed. But like in reflection of it. Right, I understand. I know what you mean. It's like it's almost like, you're like

the hoodie skateboarder is better than the fucking Olympic ice skater. Yeah, yeah. Fuck all that. I don't even know it's all great. It's a beautiful art. Right. But it's like... I don't need the tassels, bro.

I want that guy right there. I don't need the tassels. That's it. I want his sneakers scuffed. Right, right, right. I want his jeans ripped. Right. Makes sense, yo.

Yeah. But I will say there was intention to that, to the sound. You know, it was intention. And it stayed like that for a while. Because when I did the Method Man album, I felt like that we went to the studio on that album. I didn't, I never liked. I didn't, I didn't know what we did. But I just felt like it was...

I left. too many fingers touch it so when i went to cuban links i ain't that nobody touch nobody you know i mean i didn't even go to studio i did i put the board in my house put the two-track reel in my fucking house and that's and if you even listen to that album even though it's going to sound whatever way it's going to sound you may hear stuff that has more sonic weight to it but sonic ideas and and the way that the mc sound i had every one of their compressors set. So when Ghosts came,

you listen, like in the early albums, Ghost sound like Ghosts again and again and again and again. Eventually, he stopped sounding, he sounded like ghosts, but he started, it started sounding a little different than the place I had in, you know what I mean? Oh, because they stopped putting those compressors in the same place.

Stop using, stop using what we use. This is, you know what I mean? Like, the setting, like we came there today, I had a setting, like you made, maybe these lights are preset for you. The time you sit here, bro, it looks like you're sure. If you guys got to break this shit down and move, it's not a different, but close. You had the ghost setting.

Yeah, it had the ghost, had everybody setting, bro. I want to ask you a question. Yeah. Because I've just, we talked about Richard Pryce O'Neill. Patrice O'Neill. Patrice O'Neill. That's your favorite? Patrice O'Neill.

Wow. That's my top five. He's funny. Yeah, wow. That's good. Dial-on, die, die, die. Now listen, this is, I've seen everybody live. Uh-huh.

And I've seen them on their recorded stuff. Right. So I'm not just judging off of like what you see on video. There are some people where you see their like, they're special. And in my opinion, it's not like the best representation of them, not even because of the jokes. Sometimes like their energy doesn't permeate the television. That's true. You know what I mean?

And there's some people who permeate the television, but like in person is not as impressive. Right. I don't know what that is. I don't know what that force is. but some people have that gift or that thing. To me, it was just, he was the most fully formed. Like he could give you great jokes. He could bring you into the joke.

He could make you think it was happening in real time. And he could do a joke about the toughest thing and get you to laugh at it. I'm going to go back and study him. I've seen some of his work, but not a lot of it. He is funny. But I'm going to go take another observation. Elephant in the room is the one. It's probably available now on Netflix.

And then he passed. Like, RIP. He didn't put out a ton. I don't know that he passed. It's almost like a biggie. Not a big he was bigger. He was more renowned. But like...

Well, he's one of those super... Like a big L, maybe. That's maybe a better. Like, everybody knew about him. But to me, it's like not even... Okay. I haven't seen anybody touch it. Who's your favorite comedian?

For me, like, Richard Pryor just always seems to like had had always like he was he I still got him as number one because he was able to my stomach growl, I hear that? That was a long, I thought it was the subway. That was a long growling, bro. I never heard someone say my stomach's growling

while it's still growling. You got a subwoofer in his soul. I drunk before I ate. I was a must have been like, yo, bro, that's what you're giving me? Seriously? Rice. It's right. It's right. That's this one. Yeah, it's rice in there. It's a coy. But Richard is fantastic. The reason why I say him for me is I just never seen nobody before or after animate anything into a situation. Yeah. Like, he's like, yo, the dog, he had the dog always

barking at me and shit, right? It's shit. He said, then he had the monkeys and then the monkeys die. and shit and the monkeys died I was fucking sad my monkeys died and shit and I was sitting there and the fucking dog

they used to chase me he jumps over the fence and shit and he goes hey man sorry about the monkeys yeah that's sad I was gonna eat them

and shit you know what I mean he's like he's like you know don't let that shit get to you man you know

that shit could fuck you up you know yeah be strong man all right he said then the dog lick my hand he ran and jumped back over the fence

but before he landed he looked back and said now you know I'm going to be chasing your ass again tomorrow I was like so is that's a different No richard and the joke still hold up You listen to like old prior like they still work Like a comic could do them today Like maybe changing like a little like some language stuff But like the essence is still there

A lot of old comics it kind of ages Yeah comedy doesn't Comedy doesn't age well a lot of times They're watching hold on Again Trains coming Who's an artist you would love to work with that you haven't been able to? I don't know, right?

I'm open to artists. I just, I just, musically, you know, I never, like this is corny, but I said it 100 times, I say it again. I never really work with Long Hill, bro. She's out there again. I know, but I never, like, that was something that, I think, should have happened in, definitely in our primes. It just never happened, y'all. That would be far.

Can you? Maybe you can get her to put out another album. I know we've been waiting a long time for that. She already got the Apple number one album of the fucking history. I think they got it right too. She killed it. Okay, so just real quick, Big Al to you, what was happening in your life around that time? This is a very New York centric.

No, Big O's my man, bro. Wait, you knew him. Bro. I don't talk a lot about Big Al and shit. Because that's my man and shit. And me and Bigel was rhyming back before Wutte. Get the fuck out of here. Wait.

So people outside New York, I don't know if they really know Bigel that much. Yeah, he's growing, though. It's weird. He's growing. Even in, like, Europe sometimes. I'll be like, they'll be aware of him. He's, he's like one of those, like, it's certain jazz musicians, too, right?

That you realize that they were another pillar of it, right? another energy of it that you don't realize until you realize it. I think he was ahead of this time, bro. Yeah, he was special, bro. And that was my man. That was my man man. I know Method Man said one time that, I don't want to repeat with it. You know, Tonson got tough for Bigel.

So he became a street pharmacist. I thought his brother was the street guy, and he was. Either way, I remember I had to doubt him. But that was my man, though. Right. I mean, I was, I had a drug moment. I don't talk too much about my drug moments. Right. Yeah. But I had a drug moment a little bit. I was fucked up and, you know, I was lost in the sauce, bro. Using or distributing? Yeah. No, using, bro. Really? Like, like, yeah, I said, I kept it to, you know, especially after my mom's past, you know, my mom's past, you know, my mom's past, it's just like, I don't know, I lost myself for some years. It wasn't. It wasn't. It was kept, you know, I kept, you know, I kept it contained and shit. You know what I mean? I mean, I mean, I contained. it wasn't publicly exposed.

Right, you know what I mean? What was the... I didn't know what? You don't want to get into it. I call it... You know what? I made my own formula. Get the fuck out of you.

The shit I was doing, bro? You are a producer. Bro, the shit... You dropped this... You're all of the same... You, bro. Trust me, you package the shit I've made? Trillion.

Trillion, man. I'm serious, bro. Really? You packaged what I came up with? Wow. How long? long? Like how long did you go through that period? I felt like it lasted

at least at least probably seven years. No fucking way. Like Bobby Digital was a product of that. Oh wow. How did you kick it? How did you... Yeah, we'll cut you out. Yeah, like...

We'll talk about that another time. Fair enough. Okay. Yeah, wow. But it's gone. I don't even smoke wheat. I know. Wow. That's interesting. Saki's barely indulgent sake. Wow. Because I love when you started doing the Bobby Digital stuff, I was like, oh, wow, I'm just seeing a new side of you, and I didn't know that I was... But I saw the future.

Wait a minute, what do you mean? Bobby Digital. You saw the future as inspired by this consumption, or because you've always had kind of foresight in what was going on? That accelerated my foresight. Yeah. And was part of that future bad if you didn't kick it? And that's why you're like, I got to get off this shit.

Guarantee. Wow. So some like spiritual experience type of thing? These guys trying to dig at me. Sorry, bro. Don't do it. Let's come back. Let's come back to another time.

Wow. Yeah. Sorry, sorry. You were saying about L. You guys were close. Yeah. You had to call him and be like, listen, dude. No, I was calling him for Khali.

He had one third of my formula. I need a sample. Yeah. Well, at least 20, 20 proceeds. He had 25% of the formula. Wow. But that was a real thing that rapists used to do, like, would go to other rappers' hoods and, like, battle. Like, that was a real thing.

Because you hear stories of Big L and J. Z having these rap, and that's how you met L. Yeah. Yeah, I met him at a battle, yep. Wow. And nasty? Just nasty. Nasty. I forgot who was there.

I feel like Fat Joe might have been there back then, too. Was it uptown to battle? No, we was in D.C. This is, like, 90. Yeah. I feel like this is 90. Oh, yeah. And pre-written stuff or...

Whatever you got. Bro. Maybe the reason I like Rott of it is because he had some bars that were hilarious. Like, I think a lot of the... There's a lot of dudes that are battle rap now. They're like genuinely... Jesus is at it. Jesus.

Yeah. Like, I watch so many of these guys and they're phenomenal and they're funny and it's kind of like joke writing in a way. It's like roast jokes. It's like rose jokes, right? And, but he would just have these lines who would have me fucking die. Right. No, he was good, man. He was special.

you just first of all just like he's my like he was like my man like what I knew about my man is like like every time I saw him I felt good you know what I mean like you know and even when ghost saw him who didn't know him like I knew him

he felt good really like you know so people was like that like you see them and it's like yo it's my man right here you know what I mean make you smile he's real and he's still real he wasn't old nothing but real. He was an artist, and he was real.

You know what I mean? And they seemed like I spent a thousand days with him. You know what I mean? Sure, but you felt a connection with him and he thought it was positive energy. Yeah, especially. What happens with him?

And he'll bustle, look. Yeah, he had 16 ready. Anytime. He had 16 ready for you. You want it? You know what I mean? You got it. Did you ever have to battle him?

I don't know. I don't know about that. I don't speak on that. Wow. Wow. Oh, damn, I want to know that one. Wow. Yeah, that's round two.

Round two. Well, yeah, that's round two. That's round two. We're going to learn a lot of stuff. He's a special. So let's keep that specialty there. Let's do it. In thinking about, like, rap beefs, I'm so curious your perspective on the current state of hip-hop and rap.

Like, obviously, Kendrick and Drake had this massive thing, you know, a year back. And, like, I know you kind of helped Kendrick a little bit when he was first starting off, like, helping him some samples and clearing some stuff. And then obviously, you kind of you kind of, you kind of some stuff. you and drag it seems like have some relationship with like wutang forever and things like that so i'm curious when you saw that going down what was your perspective and like now that things are kind of settled what can you say about it i mean hip hop is a sport as well as an art form right it's like chess chess is a sport but it's also a art form and it's also a competition so hip hop to me is very similar so i thought it was great and healthy um the only thing that's you know that's that's that's

we can look at that in perspective is that because it's black culture in a way, even though it's not, but it's just it is. Yeah, yeah. But it is. You know what I mean? I say it's not because fuck, where's Rick Rubin? Where's Charlie Chase? You know what I mean? Charlie Chase was part of the first cruise, Grand Wizard Theater. Some of, you know, I think Charlie Chase was Puerto Rican.

Tito from the fearless force, Puerto Rican. It's a black contribution to pop culture that has become the, you know, dominant force in capital C culture. Yeah. Yeah. But, but, you know, the brothers put a lot in. Yeah.

No question. They created it. Right. So, and because of that, it comes with our stigma of, you stuck on my shoe, yo. You know what I mean? In the old days, you couldn't even wear a kangold, bro. Why? You got to defend that.

No, I'm serious. Yo. Why do you have to wear? If you wore a Kangol In the days when hip hop was first formulating You better be able to fight Or have a gun or run fast What am I saying when I put on my Kangle?

You're saying that I can hold this shit down kid Wow If not, give me that I had a Kangal Like Ghostface I know You got a robic a lot of us Holding it down

Nobody's still over me My North Face, yes I'm saying Look how they stole your North face They snatched it You had me and my buddy outside A&S Plaza. Remember A&S Plaza? Is that

Bookler? No, it was on like 34th. Remember there was a mall? It was like an inside... On 34th Street? On 34th Street of Manhattan, there was like an indoor mall. I don't even know if it's still there. I don't think I went to that mother fuck. Yeah, I never went. Anyway, it was by like MSG, cut. Okay. And like there was a little phone booth outside.

This is back when we're using pay phones, like call our parents to shit. And I was like, fucking 11, 12 years old. A couple kids ran up on me and him. And they were like, yo, we're going to need that. And I was the last one of my group that got robbed for it. Like I watched my buddy get his jacked his neck face backpack taken. And it was like I was front row at the garden. I was like, oh, this is crazy.

He got a knife. You thought they were going to skip over you? I thought. I was like, I don't think they want mine. I got purple. But anyway, yeah, they got my shit. But you know, that's how hip-hop was. Like, you know, you'd be in that street jam and you got your, whatever you got on.

you got to be able to hold that down. Right. Right. So, because of that nature of it, when the hip-hop battle starts, we don't know if it's going to always stay with the art. We don't know if it's going to always stay on the wax. And so that's what makes it delicate.

And then when the lyrics, you know, you know, to me when Kendrick wrote that lyric, to his son, I mean, to his daughter, to his mom Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yo, gee. He broke him apart.

That was deep, bro. He broke him apart, bro. That was deep, bro. I was just like, mm-hmm, mm. That's, you know, that's, that lyric was strong as Nause right into Core Mega.

Mm. You know, I thought you were gonna go ether, but. No, no, the song to Cormega, bro. One love? For us who lived this shit, Naz wrote one of the best rhymes in history with that, and the other song they gave you power I gave you power

he's writing from the perspective of a fucking gun oh wow like so and Kendrick to me rose to that level when he fucking wrote this fucking letter to this dude but now it's it becomes it goes back with Jay Z

said recently it's unnecessary because can it become personal can it become back to you know Biggie and Park right You know, Park says, I fucked your wife, bro. You said it kindly.

You said the kind of. Yeah, exactly. But still, that's a hard, it's a rhyme. I lost my first battle to a nigger, right? I didn't lose a lot of battles. I lost this one battle, though. I won most of my battles. Maybe two in my life, I lost.

But this dude, I'm maybe, I'm 13, 14, and my name is a scientist. All my legs is scientifically deep, bro. I tell you how the sperm go to the zygote, myosis, mitosis. Stuygens. Exactly, all my citizens. I said that shit.

It's girls and the whole crew. We know what I'm like 20 people, bro. Yeah. And, you know, I'll go first. I said that shit. I thought I killed this nigger. This nigger said, I don't know.

I forgot his name. I don't know. with Mikey D or something shit. Nigel my MC Mike E.D. You're talking that scientific shit. I make you get on the knees, nigger, and suck my fucking dick. Damn.

And the crowd was, ah! I'm like, what? You can't say that. What did you say that? That's the... It's not clever. It was no comeback. You can't.

It's no comeback. He called you a nerd. Right? Yeah. And now, yo, and we thought about, like, do we fight? You know, me and Doty It was like, like, yo, I can stab

this nigga. You really? Like, yo, it felt, it felt, it felt, it felt deep. Because this thrown out of suck my dick is, Yeah, it's deep. Yeah, it's deep. But it was a lesson. That's, uh, look, you hear dirty,

he'll say shit like that quick after that. Yeah. By the time, you know what I mean? Yeah. I'm gonna bust your motherfucking ass right now. I'm the one man on me, A son. And he even says, right you could suck my dad

he sat it in his own shit so that's what he learned from that moment that's right yeah yeah yeah yeah sometimes all that dirty said oh and that song Stomp said niggas want to get up and rap and rap and rap and rap man fuck that that's it that's it should I make us a head that's fine I mean sometimes

but sometimes that's what resonates the most yeah damn but so going back to your question I think hip hop is doing great, bro. Yeah, like regardless of what is lacking, of what, you know, that battle did. And, you know, you're on May 15th, Drake will let us know what the Iceman thinks about it. And you'll know.

By you'll know it's his talent, it's his skill. Is he coming in Muhammad Ali? Right? I've got to be careful saying this. because when Mike won the belt back but I was so hurt personally hard broke and went Buster Douglas

took it from him or Yeah, bro. Buster Douglas. I'm telling me that don't get Buster Douglas out this motherfucker. You could get Buster Douglas. You can. You got to be careful, bro. The dude took down the champ. You know what I mean? And nobody

expected that. No. Right? So now how do you come back from that? You know what I mean? So, and I'm not saying that this was a Buster Douglas fight. This was two swordsmen at their peak. Throwing rounds for a round, for round, for round.

All respect to Buster Douglas, but Kendrick's not Buster Douglas. No, hell no. Kendrick is a master. Drake is a master. The two sports class, somebody's sport broke on that one. Okay? But he went home. Right?

That's like Chess. you could come back and rock another day. And so I'm so excited to see what he'd do with this new album. He may go, who knows what he's going to do? We're going to find out. But if he comes, like, lyrical, back on that, bong. But if he comes back, like, yo, I'm making his apart his, bong.

You know what I mean? So I'm excited about that. But I love hip hop. I'm pessimistic about it. And I think that... You're optimistic or pessimistic? No, see, I love hip-hop. I'm optimistic about it.

And I think that it continues to do what it was meant to do, which is inspire, enlighten, and feed so many families. Love. Where can we see this movie, man? In theaters this weekend, May 1st. You know what I mean? Theaters everywhere, go check it out. Presented by Quentin, by the way.

Your only Quentin Tarantino. Yeah. Once a spoon of chocolate, presented by Quentin Tarantino, an executive producer. So it means that there are going to be white characters saying the M word. Yeah, 100%. Those are the qualifications. That's the qualification.

Bamalama. Feet? Wait, is that feet? No, I was disappointed. I'm a man of culture like Quentin. Right. You want to see some feet. There's Bobby, no feet in this fucking movie, buddy.

Can you send us out on one more story? Oh, yes, please. You were telling me before that there was a time that you went to Shanghai. Oh, okay. And you had to try to figure out a bathroom situation. Do you want a story or around? All of it. All of it.

All of it. All of it. Okay, then, I'll give you some more to fuck with it. I'm going to start with the story. Then I'm going to see if I got one bar for you. Oh, yes. The chopper. Okay.

So, no, we was talking about, you know, filming, you know, just so one spoon of chocolate is my fourth feature film. And my first film was called The Man with the Iron Fist. And I shot that in China, Russell Crow, Dave Petista, Lucy Lewis. That's a great cast. Right. But in 2010, 2011, when we was doing the film,

them, the outside of Shanghai, all the bathrooms still had the stand-up joints. Yeah, you've got to squat the plot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen them. Yeah, they still got them? In parts of southern France. Oh, wow. Can you bring this up?

I don't know. So that means that you shouldn't, bro. There's a hole in the ground, though. A hole in the ground, or, but even a hole in the toilet. I mean, not in the toilet, but, like, you go into a stall. Yeah. And you squat and you plot, right? Oh, what if you got bad knees?

You got to be strong, bro. They don't got bad knees in China, bro. They just, like, squatting on the street and shit like that all the time. Boom, what? So check it out, right? That's a nice one. That's a nice one, yeah. Go back to one.

The top fourth one there? Right here? Yeah. Yep. There you go. What? A little great so you don't slip. That's a nice one as well.

there wasn't that nice back back back back back back when um i went there right but here's the punch line so now i'm bringing over 20 americans as heads of departments and things in that nature so we like yo we can't first of all i'm the most finickyest bathroom user you're going to ever meet that shit is on my writer what's on your right no go what type of bathroom i gotta have a personal private space, bro. Yeah, yeah. That's mine. Nobody else could use it.

You know what I mean? You got to mark me off my space. Yeah. You had 10 siblings growing up, so now... Yeah, yeah. I need my own, bro. Well, I had... On my TV show,

I had a trailer. That's my dumper, right? And my younger brother who really doesn't really respect me as the Rizza. Yeah, yeah. And maybe not even as this big brother.

Because, first mind, you, he's like fucking little Herkley looking motherfucking black Superman two inches taller Oh wow Jacked It's about 3 50 400 Oh shit right So but regardless he's still my little brother Yeah younger brother

So bro would you believe That we get to set I go to say I'm going to get breakfast for everybody Get breakfast I give him breakfast and everything And then I had to go and do some fucking you know Check the monitor whatever He didn't do it. Bro.

He didn't do it. The dude goes in my fucking trailer. No. And blows it up. No. I came in there, bro. Yo, I kicked him off set. I banned him.

Too much seschuan. Yo, he had a job. I had him work in the security. He got fired that day, bro. No way. I said, yo, bro, you know, I only got one fucking rule. That's it. Don't use my fucking rule.

fucking bathroom. So going back to China, right? So we say, okay, let's build a Western bathroom. Yeah, that's a reasonable thing. And we do. So we build it and we build with urinals and we build with toilets. Great. Right. Of course, you know how

Western bathroom is. You walk in the bathroom. What's first? Urinals? Then toilets. Okay. So Dave, six, seven, whatever. Rick Ewn, another actor, He's an Asian actor.

He's in the film as well. He plays Mount Zingyi. He comes into the lunchroom. I also had a separate lunch room because in China lunch is whatever you open it and whatever's in that motherfucker. I had a catered lunch.

So you're working with the me, you can choose to say motherfucking things. Yeah. So Rick comes to lunch and he's just like, yo, bro, I'm disappointed, man. So what you mean? It's disappointing to my people, bro.

That's what you fucking talking about. Bro. We have it a great time. bro. I just came from the bathroom, bro. Yeah, Ed? Yo, bro. Somebody shitted in the urinal. I don't believe him, bro.

I can't believe it. I can't. I like, I don't feel myself, bro. That don't sound like it don't make sense. It's not scientifically possible. It's not scientifically possible. Like, how don't even do that? Bro.

You don't believe myself. I don't believe them. Four days later, I go to bathroom. No, no, no. Two of them shit, bro. I'm like, what the fuck? I don't get it. But I understood what happened.

We should have put the urnose seconded me. They got too excited at the urnals. They thought it was a fancy toilet. I'm like, I don't even got a squad no more. It's high. Yo, I'm not exaggerating this shit. I'm not making it up, bro. I just learned a lot about culture.

All right, we need the bar now. We need the bar. Let's see what I got. Right? That'd be hard to do. You got to arch up and shit. Exactly. I can imagine how to start to flush.

It doesn't go. And they're like, uh-oh. Oh, dude. So, give me a, give me a, uh, what kind of ball you were like? Oh, dude. That's on, and you, you, you. You're an architect, bro. In a no tap, too, right?

I love it. Yeah. That means every day he still means. That's fine. You heard his orchestra album? You did a whole album with the Denver Orchestra. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's just a whole on orchestral piece.

I got to give you something good because I got a feeling that it, you know, somebody's going to see it, you know? Okay, so this particular bar, right, was supposed to be, so at the end of my movie, One Spoon of Chocolate, there's a song that comes on, that my buddy Bacon produced and I rhymed on. And he gave me this track a while ago. And in the track, the hook says,

maybe your guard is something like my god. Right? It says all the bullets and the guns we use, like, to hide our lives. You know what I mean? It says, maybe your soul. I'm paraphrasing, maybe your soul is like my soul. We all suffer in the past and nothing ever last forever.

Maybe we can pray together and see eye to eye that your God and my God is the same God. Right? And then I wrote a verse for it, which we didn't use. His name is bacon? Yeah. It's going to get hard to Muslims and Jews to get home for a lot. Exactly. How about some bacon?

It's turkey bacon. It's turkey. Turkey bag. So, but who could split the atom into 10,000 pieces? My thesis, it can be achieved through telekinesis. It was made from its image. We could trace all ourselves to the same lineage. We all have the same arm, leg, leg, arm head appendages.

We fought scores of wars with hordes of men carrying shields and swords, guns and missiles in the name of the Lord. And they gave them a thousand names. But the birds, the bees, the sea, and the church. trees, the sun and the moon and the stars, they see him as the same. Genderless, creator of the Genesis without a nemesis, the one with no beginning or ending, unipotent. But we separate ourselves on borders and believe the lies our forefathers taught us.

Even the Arabs were subjugating their women and burying their daughters, hiding the side of castles made of brick and mortar, then built cities that pollute the very air and water. from the Spanish inquisitions, the crusade, Muslims against the Christians, Buddhists against the Taoists, Hindus and superstition, all prowess or power attacking the powerless. Is this an act of war or an act of cowardice? The inability to accept we all showered by the same rays of the sun, days of the month. We all start our smaller than the micro dot and grow from old and young.

We all walk with two legs and speak from one tongue. I prefer to drop love while some prefer to drop bombs. At the barbecue, my aunt and uncle used to argue about what God would do, what you should do. What they expect God to do,

but doing for their selves was hard to do. The solution could be if we just came together, but they didn't bother to. We played together as kids on the military. We slay together. Politically, we can hate together.

But won't we just get on our knees And simply pray together Stand together Face each other And see eye to eye Without shame And proclaim Maybe your God

And my God Are the same Woo That's right That's right Bung mom Yeah This was an honor

Thank you so much I'm sorry I steal that one My bad Yeah Thank you so much Bro thank you so much This is amazing

Make sure you guys Go check out the movie Yes Tickets on cells now. Everywhere. Tickets on cells right now. One spoon of chocolate.

Bung, bung, bung. Go check it out. And you got more coming as well, right? Yeah, I'm on the mission. I love it. I love it. And when you have been on a mission in the past, it's been incredibly fruitful.

So we look forward to indulging in this fruit, my friend. Thank you. Thanks for inviting me. My man, this is awesome. Thank you.