Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh - The Full Evidence Epstein was a Spy w/ Saagar Enjeti

Episode Date: July 17, 2025

YERRR – the guys sat down with Saagar Enjeti to break down the madness behind Jeffrey Epstein and the web of power protecting him. From the leaked files to Ghislaine’s role, Saagar lays out how the story goes way deeper than the headlines. He digs into the media silence, the political connections, and why nobody at the top ever seems to pay. All that and more on this week’s episode of FLAGRANT. INDULGE. 00:00 History of Jeffrey Epstein 16:48 The Maxwells + Asset for Foreign Agency? 44:42 First Epstein expose 54:24 2005 Conviction + Return to Israel 1:04:54 The Non-Prosecution Agreement + Kept Secret 1:16:13 Likely Epstein = intelligence + Protecting Sources & Methods 1:27:52 We need Church Committee like exposure 1:31:02 Blackmail 1:34:58 Israel's possible involvement + Bill Gates 1:53:21 Deutsche Bank cover-up + All facts presented 1:59:37 Shutting this down + Holding leaders accountable 2:08:06 Trump not delivering + Imbalance with Israel 2:17:59 Define this as American interests 2:20:02 Antisemitism Industrial Complex + "Grifting" 2:25:50 Talk to everybody + Don't trust, critique 2:30:05 What's Trump's strategy with Epstein? 2:35:42 Trump's Presidency so far = Chaos 2:42:49 Where does Republican party go now? 2:46:28 What has propelled Mamdani? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up everybody? Welcome to Flagrant. You know, there was a vote by the House Committee to see if we could get the whole Epstein file released and Shockingly some of these politicians, I believe, how many other? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven of them said that it's probably not a good idea that we release the full detailed Epstein file and You know what we could do is just decide to move on to something else I'm sure there'll be other news stories or maybe we could bring somebody who's become quite the expert at the Epstein story phenomenal podcast our good good friend Sanger and Jenny everybody yeah I saw your episode with Tucker was absolutely amazing and like I didn't realize how detailed

in depth your knowledge of. Thanks, bro. He's got a kid now. So we got an out. Yeah, yeah. That's true. And I have a baby girl. I didn't do the research, but I asked you a lot of questions.

That's what all good men do. Yeah, you outsource through any media. So maybe it's a good idea that we just kind of like start with the case for abstinence being intelligence because what I've seen quite recently is a lot of people kind of wiping the record and acting like this is pure conspiracy that he did have any ties or connections and I think there's a lot of like we have a lot of tidbits of information that we've all kind of collected and there's this collective conscious that he absolutely is so like what is the argument for it maybe give us backstory. I know you put together something amazing. So just break it

down. Who is this Epstein character that we all think we know so well? I'll start off from the top. I totally understand people who are saying it's a conspiracy theory. And in large part, I think it's because it's been wildly overstated by some people, which is natural in open environment, right? They're like, he's obviously Mossad, he's obviously CIA, this is part of a blackmail ring. And in my opinion, the American people actually have it, right, they just don't have the language, the facts, and they need to pull it together,

and I want them to have the information that they have to be able to make that case. Especially whenever we have these really, former Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett, just yesterday, who said unequivocally, Epstein did not work for Mossad. Now remember, you know, there are key terms here that matter. Work is not the same as asset or worked with

or worked with at some time. And this is the master game that these people play, the non-denial denial. It's one of the most classic things in the history of Washington. So let's start at the very, very, very beginning. And I've put together some stuff. That's why I have my laptop here with me.

So the first time that we can see any link between Jeffrey Epstein and somebody who would become eventually very important to a story in the intelligence world is in 1974. So 1974, right here in New York City, where we are today, Jeffrey Epstein, despite having no college degree and being a dropout from New York University, is hired by Donald Barr.

Now, why does that last name sound familiar? Donald Barr is the father of William Barr, who was the US Attorney General under Donald Trump in 2019, who actually presides over the investigation into the Jeffrey Epstein suicide. I'll just call it a death here for now. So, Donald Barr in 1974, hires Jeffrey Epstein at the Dalton School. Does Donald Barr have intelligence connections himself? Yes, he certainly does, as would be a surprise to all of you, as do all of the storied families of the people who were connected to the most elite private schools here in New York City. So here we have a New York Times report from 2019.

Jeffrey Epstein taught at Dalton. His behavior was noticed. And what they talk about specifically is that Epstein, even here in his early 20s, is already exhibiting the pedophile behavior that he becomes known for. He starts harassing a lot of young girls and in the span of just one year, finds himself basically under investigation

and departs under weird circumstances after teaching math here at the Dalton School. So the question is, why did Donald Barr hire Jeffrey Epstein, a person at the Dalton School, to teach math despite having no credentials, no college degree? I mean you can't even get a job at a public school without a college degree and a teacher certification. Let me ask you a question. This is the first time we see you. Okay, so let me ask this question. And I think it's important to just give pushback so we kind of understand. I don't even want to call it

pushback. You know, my dad had a college degree. He walks in and he asked if he can work in the news station. Sure. And so this is back in like the 70s. And he's able to get a job working in a news station. Eventually it was on air. So there was a different time. Could teachers just teach at an elite private school?

No, they could not. Oh, okay. That's the thing. So no, they could not. Not common. The Donald Barr, by the way, actually departed the school at the very same time as Jeffrey Epstein. The cope from Donald Barr and others, the explanation is that he very often had an unconventional

hiring strategy. But, you know, people who attended Dalton and others basically said it was a very weird hire at the time and nobody still to this day really has an explanation for why. That's the very first known link and it's weird. Okay, let's just be honest. It's weird. So from 1974 to 1975, we have the departure. So somewhere around 1976,

Jeffrey Epstein meets a guy named Ace Greenberg, Ace Greenberg of Bear Stearns. Of course you guys know, for the younger audience out there, Bear Stearns is one of the most storied investment banks in Wall Street history, went down in 2008. So Ace Greenberg, whose child goes to Bear Stearns, meets Jeffrey Epstein, ostensibly at some sort of like parent event.

So here we have Jeffrey Epstein's deep ties to top Wall Street figures, and talks here about Greenberg. Just so I can understand. So Jeffrey Epstein was teaching. At Dalton. Ace Greenberg's kid at Dalton. Correct. Builds a relationship with this Ace Greenberg guy,

who is one of the, what, the heads of the bank? Yes, he's the head of the bank, one of the most powerful men on all of Wall Street in the 1970s and 1980s. So Ace Greenberg hires Jeffrey Epstein initially on the options desk. Yes, he's the head of the bank, one of the most powerful men on all of Wall Street in the 1970s and 1980s. So Ace Greenberg hires Jeffrey Epstein initially on the options desk. What ends up happening is Epstein's actually not very good at that. So they're like, what's this guy any good at?

So they transfer him to basically the high net worth money management desk. And effectively for the next five years, Jeffrey Epstein learns the art and really the art of money laundering. He manages high net worth individuals money What he does with that money is he specializes in offshore? Accounting and then specifically what he does is he gets deep in with all of these shadowy figures who are experts in the Cayman Islands and moving money off shores now This is the first known time that he begins to develop the portfolio that will make him very useful

for intelligence agencies in the future. Now, sorry, real quick, are they moving money offshores to avoid taxes or is there any money? Initially, it's to avoid taxes. Now, but what we eventually learn is from the formation of something called IAG. So after five years at Bear Stearns, Jeffrey Epstein is fired for a regulatory de-violation.

Basically, he broke internal banking rules and insider trading. So there's two things that we learn here. Number one, he's involved in sketchy behavior from the very beginning. Two, he's not prosecuted. He's basically fired, let go, and everybody keeps it hush-hush.

I'll come back to that in the future because he develops a strategy there called Playing the Box. Playing the Box is a strategy he admitted to where he said you can break the law and you can always Get away with it because people will be too embarrassed to be able to call you out for it Which will enable you to continue your money laundry Because Bear Stearns would be embarrassed by the fact that they have somebody who's managing so much money

Inside of their bank internally. He was internally caught So and that's why he was SEC doesn't find out thes finds out. Bear Stearns compliance and they're like, look, we need to make this go away. We just, we don't want to deal with this anymore. He just needs to go. So from that point forward, 1981, Epstein forms a company called IAG, the Intercontinental Assets Group.

I'm gonna read directly here from the description. He is a quote, high level bounty hunter who helps clients recover assets. This is the first entree into what will eventually sprawl as a global intelligence network because a high-level bounty hunter who helps you recover money is not involved in quote, legitimate business.

What does that mean, recover money? Yeah, exactly. So it's in many cases, he eventually gets involved with people who are running Ponzi schemes and basically keeping and hiding money offshore. He sells himself and it's very unclear because none of the records of this have ever really been released.

But the description of high-level bounty hunter indicates to us that his specialization in offshore banking is one that becomes very important to intelligence networks. So this is where people might ask, hey, why do we even care about this? Why would an intelligence network even want offshore banking? And the reason why is in the 1980s, there were all of these very sketchy arms deals

that were happening. Here we have in the United States, the Iran-Contra affair. This is Cold War. And everybody actually has a very distorted attitude as to how the CIA front companies work. Nobody at the CIA has a bank at JPMorgan Chase that says a CIA that goes and buys a front company building. Did you guys, perfect example, do you ever remember when we watched Argo?

Did you guys watch the movie? So remember how Ben Affleck's character flies to Hollywood and gets a front man to open a company and the money is laundered through the front man? That man would be known as a CIA asset because he's able to open that front company. So that's why it's very important to the CIA. It works for the CIA. Of course it does. They have their own job. Exactly. They have their own money.

In many cases they put up their own money. But eventually get reimbursed somewhere in shady offshore banking thing on the back end. So these are vital parts of any intelligence network. Israeli, US, Saudi, everybody. Because if the CIA's name was on it, then it wouldn't work as espionage. Exactly. Because Iran would be like, who has the CIA? We're trying be able to hide it. And then you get a wrong contra blown up. That's exactly it. This is literally a story of- It isn't necessarily in and of itself bad. It's a necessary for the CIA to function.

Look, it's just the way that you do business. There's no value judgment here. So the point is, is that at this time, this is when he begins to develop a relationship in somewhere around between 1976 and 1981 with a man named Douglas Lease. Now, Lease is a very important character. Douglas Lease was a UK national. He's a verified in UK government documents as having been involved in multiple arms deals and is thought to have been at least somewhat of a CIA MI6, some sort of intelligence asset. Douglas Lease is an expert again in offshore banking and international money laundering. At the age of 20, I think it's 28, and somebody can check my work on this, is that at the

age of 28, Douglas Lease brings a young Jeffrey Epstein on a private plane to the Pentagon for purposes that we still do not know. This is long before Epstein is a billionaire. This is when he's involved specifically in offshore banking. Lease is basically the conduit through which he is then introduced to all of these very important people. Yes, Adnan Khashoggi, who is a very important person in the story, Stephen Hoffenberg, who is basically

the source of a lot of this information. Keep in mind, Stephen Hoffenberg, and he went on the record to Vicki Ward, who's the journalist who did the original expose on Epstein in 2002. He was convicted of one of the largest Ponzi schemes in US history. What ended up happening is he was trying to con Epstein, but Epstein actually conned him out of $100 million.

But he, Stephen Hoffenberg, basically showed the relationship between Douglas Lees and Epstein, which Epstein got very testy about whenever he was asked, basically pretended, I hardly know the guy. Lees is the person who introduces Epstein to Hoffenberg to Robert Maxwell and to this Adnan Khashoggi. Now the reason why all three of those names matter is that Hoffenberg shows the conduit of the way that Epstein was already working with illegal enterprises and offshore banking. The way that he alleges Epstein stole his money was

specifically through one of these offshore transactions. The other two names I just- So a guy was running a posse scheme. And then he caught him. Caught him. Yeah. And then wrote a hater article about it. And actually Epstein, actually Epstein cooperated with US authorities against Hofenberg and basically got him locked up in prison. Oh wow.

This was only acknowledged years and years later. I mean he was a master, he was a master networker. We have to give it to him. But again, here's another link between the community, Intel, you know, the US government, Jeff Repstein. Here's a link to offshore banking. And then specifically Adnan Khashoggi and Robert Maxwell. So who are these two individuals? Here he has Adnan Khashoggi. Adnan Khashoggi is the uncle of Jamal Khashoggi,

the Saudi journalist who was butchered in the Turkish embassy. But for our purposes, what can we look at here? Saudi arms merchant, world-class playboy dies. This is from his obituary in the Washington Post. So why do we care about Adnan Khashoggi and his association with Epstein? And these are verified ties between the two. Adnan Khashoggi is somebody who worked on all kinds of sketchy arms deals throughout

his life. These people are very useful to the Saudi Kingdom, to the Israelis, because they are cutouts. They're not officially part of the royal family. Their money is used to finance various arms deals. He has a verified connection to Mossad and to funneling arms between Israel and Iran in the past. All of this is out in the public record.

It's effectively been acknowledged, and I don't even think it's really disputable. I know that you've spoken about this already, but I just want to make this incredibly clear, where it's like governments and countries cannot be actively involved in these Cold War tactics. Exactly. They need to find these proxies to do it. Yes. And those proxies might not necessarily be bad.

Matter of fact, they offer incredible utility. Absolutely. A Khashoggi, for example, for Saudi Arabia might be one of the most important figures in executing the plans of Saudi Arabia without getting the people in charge of the saturated dirty. And at this point in time, it's looking like, as we go through the story, Epstein might be an asset to the United States of America, maybe when we get into Maxwell or at least it doesn't look like there's anything incriminating on him so far.

No, well, I mean, to be fair, his pedophilia and his proclivities were kind of secondary to his money. Now, the reason why I think he eventually gets away with the stuff that he does in the future is because of all the work he did in the 1980s and the 1990s for these various governments. I don't want to connect us to like a movie, but there's this movie, Art of War, that Nicolas Cage is in. Yeah, I love that movie. It's a great movie.

And it's based on, I think, like a relatively true I think that guy we just released from Victor Bout. For Britney Greiner. Yeah, for Britney Greiner. Lord of War, I think it's cool. We got a six woman for the Lord of War. And so basically, he goes, there's this moment where he's arrested and this guy from the FBI has been holding it down.

He eventually goes, hey, listen, somebody's going to come in that door and let you know that it's time for me to go. I don't know what you're talking about, blah, blah, blah. And to me, that's kind of what it's feeling like so far, where there could be these connections. And we might get it misconstrued where it's like, the government is involved in this like, illicit child fucking blackmail scheme, when in reality the government's looking to be like, no, actually we're just running guns.

And we're just following dirty money. We're funneling stuff between Israel and Iran. This is why Saudi, you know, the Saudi government can't facilitate an Israel-Iran arms deal, right? These are all allegedly moral enemies, but Khashoggi, oh, he can do it. He can finance that deal, and we can make him whole on the back end. Now

a similar, yeah, go ahead. And last thing I would say is I was talking to a friend of mine, I think Morgan Stanley or JP Morgan banked him. I forget which one was it, JP Morgan? At that time. Oh no, this is later on. Well, Deutsche Bank and JP Morgan both banked Jeffrey Epstein. And like a friend of mine was working over there and he basically, I was asking about him, he was like, he he's like yeah, like he just

Operated with dirty money. Yeah, and I think that's why You know the government had an eyeball on him because it was advantageous for them to know who's sending him 30 million dollars from El Salvador He was the banker and a lot of these banks will just take dirty money Of course they will if you're getting tens of millions of dollars from a third world country, please believe it's not Slushies on the street. Yeah, there's some fucked up shit going on. So I'm just trying to position at this point right now, the government might think that they have an asset working in their best interest.

At this point. This is a rational case for them. We're not yet involved with eventually becomes the pedophilia ring. Also guys, tour dates. I'm gonna be in Kansas City, August 1st and 2nd, August 8th and 9th, I'm gonna be in Toledo, Ohiost and 2nd, August 8th and 9th I'm gonna be in Toledo, Ohio at the Funny Bone, August 22nd and 23rd,

it's a lot of fucking Ohio, huh? Liberty Township, September, September 11th through 13th. Let's hope I don't bomb on those shows. Dania Beach, Florida. Bunch of other dates on my website at Ocustin.com. What's up guys, Mark Yagnon here, I got some tour dates for you.

If you wanna skip forward, dude, I'm not gonna stop you. You know what I mean? I completely understand, it happens. All right, suck his dick. Yeah, guys, suck his dick. That's not bad, honestly. It's not bad. Suck his dick, guys.

I bet it, actually it is bad. Don't do it, okay? Because this Saturday, New York City, on July 19th, I'm gonna be doing Alex's show at the Hard Rock. Come on out And then I'm gonna be in Stanford, Connecticut Hoboken, New Jersey Levittown, New York Chandler Arizona San Diego Burlington I'm also going to Canada Toronto, Montreal a bunch of other days Detroit is in there and we're adding some I'll see you guys at the show. God bless you all and peace be with you. And like Mark said, this Saturday, July 19th,

New York City, Times Square. Suck his dick. Suck his dick. At Hard Rock Casino, Times Square, we have a happy hour. We have comedy. We have an after party after. Come have a good time. Wait. Cancel comedy, X on Instagram, link in bio. We have comedy. We have an after party after come have a good time wait

Cancel comedy X on Instagram Lincoln bio Let's move now to Robert Maxwell now Robert Wack Maxwell is probably one of the most central important figures in this story Robert Maxwell is the father of Galen Maxwell and Robert Maxwell is basically an intelligence operative from day one So Robert Maxwell is very interesting early life story. He's a Czechoslovakian Orthodox Jew. He flees the Nazis, finds a way to escape from mainland Europe, fighting with the resistance to the UK, fights the Nazis in World War II. He gets the second highest medal from the British government during World War II for his exemplary service and becomes a British

national. Changes his name multiple times. What eventually happens though is that Robert Maxwell begins to roll up the tabloid news empire, he's a Rupert Murdoch of his time, by rolling up tabloid news in the UK and effectively becoming like a sovereign wealth fund in and of itself with his billions. Maxwell is a very committed Zionist and somebody who's very important to the state of Israel. He's been openly acknowledged at this point as a Mossad asset. I have his code name here. Let me find it. He was known as Mega, quote, the bountiful source.

This is from a former Mossad operative who described it. Anybody see the Tetris movie? No, I actually didn't see it. Okay. He's a character in the Tetris. Oh, okay. Like he's personified as himself as part of the story, which is one of the assets that they owned, I guess guess might have been the... Yeah.

So Maxwell is again, just like Khashoggi, he's financing international arms deals. He's very important to Mossad. He's very important to MI6. He's very important to the US intelligence community. But the thing that really puts him apart is that Maxwell is a committed Zionist and he works specifically on behalf of the state of Israel to advance his interests. And the most extreme example of that,

can we put that wired one up there? It talks about the Inslaught Octopus. This is a very important article from the 1990s, and it describes basically a piece of software that Robert Maxwell was integral in both financing and selling to the Department of Justice. And it was Israeli spyware that was installed on vast numbers of US government computers that was used specifically to spy on the United States by Mossad in the Israeli intelligence

community. What year is this? This was in the early 90s. This is whenever it was exposed. But in the 1980s, this is something that Maxwell was directly involved with. Has there been cumulative measures taken for this act? I'm not actually sure about this. As usual, whenever it comes to Israeli operations on US soil, we're all like, hey, you should

cut it out. And then we don't really do anything about it. There's a great doc. Jonathan Pollard is a very good example of this. There's a doc on Netflix about the octopus murders. And this guy, Danny Castellero, that basically tried to expose this. Oh, that's right. I forgot. I had never watched it, but I know what it is.

It's fantastic. And he gets murdered in his attempt to try to expose the Inz law software. All right. So there we go. That's Robert Maxwell. He's involved in things like this, but I could actually go on forever. What did you say about Pollard? Jonathan Pollard. Do you know who that is? No. Jonathan Pollard is one of the greatest spies in US history. He was a NSA employee in the 1980s. He was spying on behalf of the state of Israel,

selling them secrets. You can, yeah, there's a picture of him right there. Oh, you spoke about this on Tucker. Yeah, I did. So he served 30 years in a US prison. While he was here, he became a cause celeb in Israel, saying that he was unjustly persecuted, even though he was a United States citizen,

selling secrets to Israel. Bibi Netanyahu visited him. I think he sold the secrets to Russia, not Israel, right? No, no, no, Israel sold the secrets to Russia. Yeah, yeah, yeah. citizen, selling secrets to Israel. Bibi Netanyahu visited him. I think he sold the secrets to Russia, not Israel, right? No, no, no. Israel sold the secrets to Russia. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He sold the secrets to Israel. Oh!

No, no, no. He sold the secrets to Israel. Wow. Let's be clear. Israel sold them to the Soviet Union. Jonathan Pollard was actually granted Israeli citizenship, I think in absentia. Bibi Netanyahu visited him in prison here in the United States of America, basically saying, well, are we going to stand with you.

The moment his federal probation is up after he's released from prison, after his sentence, he moved to Israel and he's never coming back. So that's a perfect example here of you have a United States citizen spying on behalf of the Israeli government. Open caught, it's all admitted out in the open. The Israeli government says, hey, we're friends, like just forgive him. He was just a Jewish patriot doing what he wanted for his country, even though he was not an Israeli citizen there at the time, granted him citizenship and openly campaigned

for all of our presidents of the United States, Bill Clinton, onward to pardon Jonathan Pollard. And they came pretty damn close, let me be clear. So that's another example of how we really treat Israeli espionage very differently than all other espionage on the United States. If you guys remember in the Ted Cruz interview where Tucker was like, you know, it doesn't concern you that Mossad is spying on America. He's like, well, all countries do it. All friendly countries spy on each other.

There's an exception that we seem to make here for this country. Have we been caught spying on Israel? You know, I don't know if we've ever been caught in a high profile operation. I mean, I'm sure that we do. And in fact we probably should, considering what's going on. Actually, you know what? We definitely have been, because I remember there have been documents leaked from the Israeli cabinet meetings. You remember the signal leaks? I published some of those documents, and in one of those was actually minutes from the cabinet meeting from Bibi.

So yes, we are spying on the Israelis as well. To be fair, we're spying on everybody. So it's like, if we're doing everything, we're going to on everybody. Nice! Although the Israelis did get kind of upset about that. So it's a little ironic. They got upset whenever we're doing it, but not intentionally. I saw Dershowitz saying that. Yeah, we do that or they do that. He was trying to make it seem like since everybody does it, it's okay. Yeah, but it's not okay. It's not okay. We should all punish if we do it. It's not okay when we do it. It's not okay when you guys do it. That's right. We're supposed to be allies.

That's right. Okay. So let's continue. Wait, we should do it. Yeah, all right. Let's continue. Let's get away with it. Let's get away with it.

Robert Maxwell. We're coming back. Robert Maxwell. All right, Robert Maxwell, the father of Ghislaine Maxwell. So this is how Jeffrey Epstein meets Ghislaine Maxwell, his eventual co-conspirator in the child trafficking network. And Robert Maxwell, of course, has a very shady death. Nobody is still really sure how he died.

He allegedly either jumped or fell off of his yacht, which of course happens to everybody. I mean, it's somewhat believable, but I mean, it's just one of those things where, you know, he's killed in various, or he dies in very suspicious circumstances. He has all kinds of luminaries at his funerals, and whatever he knew, you know,

kind of goes to the grave with him. So after that, in this period, we have 1988. This is probably one of the most important years in the history of Jeffrey Epstein. Because- Before we move away from Maxwell, can I just tell you a fun little tidbit? Of course. I want to get this right,

and I have to check spelling and everything on this, but I wish I, okay, ready? Right now, I think they think one of the issues with releasing the Epstein files is because if you release a report that implicates people without them being investigated, that's a concern. And I think in Britain, there's called the FCA, that's their version of the SEC, I'm pretty sure, something like that. So basically they have a process that you give that person that is named a chance to respond or submit evidence before the report is released

so that they can address concerns which might end up altering the report's conclusions about that person. That process is called Maxwellization and it's named after Robert Maxwell. That's amazing because it fits with his character and the way that he operated. It's a medium magnet. Look, actually let's that he operated. I love the tabloids. That's what I mean.

It's a medium magnet. Look, actually let's take a second. Why do these tabloids matter? If everybody remembers the whole David Pecker scandal here in America with Donald Trump, it's that they basically, they're like private intelligence services. They hoover up all of these stories.

They often buy people's silence through non-disclosure agreements, and then they use that as pedigree with the richest people in the world. I'm like, hey Donald, we held this story on Karen McDougall who accused you, so we expect something a little bit in return. Exactly. It's also the algorithm before the algorithm.

If you own five different tabloids and you can print the same story that's allegedly on all of them, then the other newspaper articles and TV shows, they start picking it up. Before an algorithm, you have to create the trend. You're literally describing the New York Post to Fox News pipeline. I mean, what are you talking about? This is crazy to make an allegation like that. That is, I mean, they're owned by Rupert Murdoch. It's out in the open. Many people who work there will tell you that's literally how it works. It doesn't take a genius to figure this stuff out.

Oh, let's turn return to the money. So 1988, very important year in the life of Jeffrey Epstein. He leaves or basically reforms IAG. At this point, it's been seven years. He's very important to many of the world's most influential arms dealers and other people. Almost certainly at this point is embroiled in some of these deals. This point is a very sketchy point because now he creates the J. Epstein Company. The J. Epstein Company, self-described, accepts only clients with $1 billion. This is a year where there are only 140 billionaires

in all of his existence in 1988. There's not very many people who are billionaires, and to have one billion in cash liquid to be able to invest is effectively unheard of. So who are the people that this is ostensibly for? He pitched specifically as quote, an economic advisor to the super rich. No other services have ever been advertised

and this is the source eventually of all of his wealth. And so it's somewhere around this time in the 1980s and the J. Epstein company that he signs a client named Leslie Wexner. Wexner, one of the most important figures again in this story, really the source of much of his money and his power to the way that it eventually becomes. Leslie Wexner is one of the richest men in America, one of the richest men in Ohio. Leslie Wexner is a committed Zionist, he's committed, you know, donated and worked with

the Israeli government and we'll talk about that in a little bit. But Leslie Wexner eventually, in this time period effectively signs over his entire portfolio and eventually leads to Power of Attorney being signed over to Jeffrey Epstein. You guys had a great exchange where you were like, hey, we have a decade of friendship here and I would not sign Power of Attorney over to any of you. There's only one person I'm signing Power of Attorney to, my wife. There's nobody else who's ever going to get it.

We're supposed to do that? Yeah. If we wanted to. That's the only person who conceivably is ever going to get that. What about business managers? Do they have power of attorney? No, or they have a limited power of attorney. And that's very different than his entire control of his estate. So somewhere in this time, in the 88 to 91 period, in just three years, he is able to convince this man, Leslie Wexner, multi-billionaire, the founder of Victoria's Secret, to basically sign over all of his power of attorney and control of his assets. Even more importantly, over the next five years, he effectively begins

transferring many assets from the Wexner fortune to his own personal portfolio. Multiple properties in the state of Ohio, which are actually referenced in the Galen Maxwell trial for the sex trafficking purposes, those are actually referenced in the Galen Maxwell trial for the sex trafficking purposes, those are Wexner properties. And then the infamous, massive townhouse in Manhattan, at that time the largest private residence, basically valued at some $70 million.

I mean, again, who in this world is transferring $70 million townhouse, largest private residence at the time, the city of New York, over to this man, Jeffrey Epstein. So let's make a steel man. For what purpose? Go ahead.

Is there a purpose? For example, is he trying to avoid taxes? Yes. Give me the argument outside of corruption. Sure. Leslie Wexner has talked to his people, and he's talked to people about this, and his explanation is that Epstein was a money wizard,

that he simply had ideas. Is that what we call him? I don't know. It's not what I was saying. They said he's a wizard with money. He's the smartest man with money I've ever seen. The Steelman case for how this has nothing to do with blackmail is exactly what you just said.

And this is eventually what's hinted at by the richest and most powerful people in the world, is guys, we were doing money laundering. It wasn't about blackmail or any of this other stuff. It was a way for us to launder our money internationally. I'll come back to it, but that's basically the excuse that Leon Black gave. Leon Black is genuinely one of the richest men in New York.

He was a $9 billion net worth founder of the Apollo Group, one of the largest private equity firms in the world. From 1997 onward, he has a relationship with Jeffrey Epstein to the point where he puts him on the board of the Black Family Foundation. And it eventually comes out between 2012, 2017, he transferred $170 million to Jeffrey Epstein and to Epstein related accounts for quote, tax advice. His argument is that over that five year period, he gave him $170 million and saved to the

tune of 11 billion. That's what he claims. What he claims. Now, if that is the case, all of us would hire Epstein immediately. Yes, right. That's right. But there's no way to do that legitimately. And also, if you look at all of the paper trail for this, Epstein was not a licensed

financial advisor. He was not a licensed tax advice person. He was not somebody who is ever well known in the hedge fund industry. This is the question about why are these super rich people transferring all of this money to this individual. I'm willing to believe money laundering, but with the Wexner case, I just simply can't get there. Vicki Ward and James Stewart, biographers and others who have looked into the story,

they really believe that blackmail is somehow at the center of the story of Wexner. This is purely speculation on my behalf. I wanna make that clear. I think that makes a lot of sense, especially for economically ignorant folks like myself, which are like, I'm not giving a fucking townhouse to anybody for any purpose. Exactly.

But there are these certain situations where people set up these trusts. They set up these LLCs, they set up these escorts so they can put certain, to avoid taxes, they create these loopholes. So there is a version where he had found a way to do this. I don't understand why passing it directly to Epstein avoids taxes because Epstein would then have to pay those taxes. Exactly right. Yeah, exactly right. Like why not put it into a joint trust that Epstein has access to? Why is it specifically passed to Epstein?

For his personal use. Yeah, for his personal use. Let's be clear. Unless he needed it under his name to validate him to do certain things. Which is what eventually we began to see with the story. And also look, let's be honest here about Wexner. Wexner is the founder of Victoria's Secret. Like would it be crazy to say the founder of Victoria's Secret. Like, would it be crazy to say the founder of Victoria's Secret is kind of perverted? And Leslie Wexner's been photographed with all these young women.

To make lingerie for teenagers. It's like literally, yeah, making lingerie for teenagers. Yo, I'm shocked to be told that this person is involved with some weird stuff. Again, look, because he's still alive and he would sue me, that is purely speculation on my part based upon publicly available information and I'm not claiming anything otherwise.

But the point is- But don't they have to go find barely any growth models around the world? I mean, that's their business model, to be clear. So they have to say that. When do you turn 18 so I can put you on the front line with wings? This happens, right?

So that's the person and the individual who's at the nexus of a lot of this stuff. Now let's say then what we move from there, because that Wexner transfer sets Epstein as the king of New York, as the king of New York society. Can I ask one more question before that? Are there any people in finance that look at that transfer and they go, wow, this was a smart financial decision for Wexner? I have not yet found a single person.

In fact, every rich person who I have ever talked with about the Epstein thing has told me I have no idea what the fuck Was going on and has anybody explained? Wexner as people explained why it was advantageous to him to know he just said it was a terrible mistake And that he trusted Epstein entirely with this money. He literally called his relationship and the transfer quote a terrible mistake That's the only public apology that he's ever given on the case. Wester's never gone into it. By the way, he's still alive and he should answer questions. It is interesting that we haven't seen him in an interview, like we've seen Prince.

Oh, he shut himself down. But we've seen Prince Andrew in an interview. That's right. Like, he's maybe the only person that we haven't heard speak publicly about this. A little bit, but you know, a lot. Well, same with, it's been years. I think in 2020 is when he gave his apology.

But same with Leon Black, by the way, who resigned from his public company and has basically disappeared from New York society. Jess Staley, the former CEO of Barclays, Epstein's private banker, I'll return to him in a little bit with the Israel connection because he's a very important part of that story. But he's also resigned and now he's not CEO of a publicly traded company. Doesn't he testify? Doesn't he give any interviews? He's filthy rich. You publicly traded company. Doesn't need test-fi, doesn't need to give any interviews. He's filthy rich.

You know how these people operate. You can hire bodyguards and live behind a wall for the rest of your life. So that's basically where we are. With Maxwell Sr. and when Epsi and him meet, did they do any business together that we know of? So this is the problem. We don't have the full records,

and this is part of the why the release of the files is very important. And I will also return where I think defining the files as a list is very important because that's not how it works. People seem to have it in their head that there's a ledger, that there's a black book that's like paid or have kiddy tape supports Israel now. It's how this works guys. Like as a journalist, like what we're doing here is we're compiling information.

We're looking at public stuff that cannot be explained otherwise. We're steelmanning the case. We're reaching out to Leslie Wexner for comment. The IRS today, as you guys all know, has all of our information, all of the Butterfly Trust accounts connected to Jeffrey Epstein. What's a Butterfly Trust? That was an Epstein-linked account, which the New York Financial Services... By the way, you guys should take this up.

Here in the state of New York, they have all access to Epstein's financial records, 2013 onwards, because they find Deutsche Bank for their business with Epstein for violating the bank rules and for violating New York state regulations. New York state has the books for his entire financial life, 2013 onwards. Didn't JP Morgan pay out an insane salary? JP and Deutsche, well Deutsche Bank paid like $75 million to the Epstein victims specifically for facilitating a lot of this trafficking. But my point is, is that I want those documents. I want the Butterfly Trust accounts. Leon Black, the way that he even paid Epstein, and this was only

available by subpoena power that we know of, was through some private jet holding company. I mean, this stuff is all masked in a way that their names were never supposed to be on top of any of it. The only way we can get it is from release and from subpoena from the United States government. Part This stuff is all masked in a way that their names were never supposed to be on top of any of it. The only way we can get it is from release and from subpoena from the United States government. Part of why the Trump administration's decision is so very disappointing. And so I know I keep cutting back. I just want to make sure that I understand this. It seems so brazenly foolish for these people to even be tangentially connected to Epstein.

Well, not before this time. I don't want to be giving him an out, but I want to be really understanding the situation. If you are operating with somebody who uses nefarious techniques to hide money, which I do not put past any wealthy person. No. Anybody who's got tens of millions of dollars, I promise you they are doing some shady shit to hide that money, to move that money. I know a guy who would fly to the fucking Bahamas

with tens of thousands of dollars strapped to his body. It sounds like out of a movie, he would do it regularly. Why are you snitching on me like that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. These guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You guys all know him, I just want to. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So there was a regular thing to just avoid taxation. Setting up accounts back in, I think this is probably like the 80s, this is not as... So doing these things to avoid taxes is quite common amongst the people who make tens, hundreds of millions of dollars. But doing it so directly with Epstein is what I find peculiar. And there's a part of me that goes, if they're doing it directly with him, do they not feel concern about his relationships and intentions? Is there some sort of trust there?

Because, like you said earlier, the CIA knows they're on some fuck shit, so they're like, we got to make sure that we're not associated with this. Why would you not? Well, that's a great question. Especially if he's been operating for a decade now and he hasn't been caught, hasn't gotten any trouble. It's like, oh, this guy's good. That's the defense I would make is that in pre 2005, before the investigation, it's actually

somewhat somewhat understandable for somebody who is not in Palm Beach or New York society. I would say more in the 1980s. From about 95 onward, it's an open secret. Jeffrey Epstein likes kids. Jeffrey Epstein likes me. When does he first get caught? So 2005. That's the very first investigation into Epstein, the actual law enforcement investigation.

So we could make the argument that before that, yes, it's greed. Well, yeah. Again, though, because all of these people live, this is, as you're saying, the super rich is the smallest group in the world. They may live all over the world, but they're actually all in the same place, basically all at the same time.

Yeah, they're doing all the Jeff Center events. They're always in St. Bar, they're always in London, they're always in Tahoe, whatever, like Palm Beach. This is why they all know each other. So to a certain extent, I actually can't really forgive it because it's such an open secret in the 1990s that Jeffrey Epstein likes little kids basically and is trafficking young women. Well, before the 90s, yeah,

I guess we could give them somewhat of a pass, but it starts to become out in the open. I'm not trying to give a pass. What I'm trying to do is like not be guilty of internet trends, which is like applying something we learn about and is confirmed in 2005 and 2008 with a conviction to everyone prior to that. I think after 2005 and definitely after 2008,

like you're aware that you're dealing with a convicted pedophile. So you're a registered sex offender. Yeah, yeah, like registered sex offender. There's no excuse. But before that, I do think that there are these people that just want money and they'll do anything for money, and they are already operating in pseudo-illegal behaviors and activities, and there's this incredible desire and thirst for power,

so they might be willing to rub shoulders with these nefarious characters. And if there's some, before 2005, there's some level of plausible denial. There is some. Yeah, exactly right. Even if they do know, they're like, eh, he's not... And if he's like, I could save you a billion dollars, you might be tempted to take that plausible denial. There is some, yeah, exactly right. Even if they do know, they're like, eh, he's not. And if he's like, I could save you a billion dollars, you might be tempted to take that plausible denial. See, this is the thing, you're taking it literally, and I'm still not quite sure that I'm there yet.

I'm not quite sure he actually was doing anything of the tax advice sort. I still don't know. Yeah, I still am not clear on what he was actually doing. I don't think anybody's clear on what he's doing. Nobody's clear on what he's doing. That's part of the problem. Which is what, so, but I wanna make sure

that when we're pinning people to certain things, like if you're staying in his penthouse after he's a registered sex offender, you're pinned. Like there's no excuses. Like the Prime Minister of Israel? Exactly. Oh, sorry? Multiple times. Yeah, yeah.

Like Bill Gates. Like Bill Gates. Didn't he have an office in Harvard? Yeah, after, well, I'm not sure about that. I'd have to go back and double check. But again, those things, like let's pin it right there. There's no question you have staff. George Stephanopoulos who had dinner in his house.

Why are you hanging out? Like, can't you just Google him? Exactly. And you should because he's journalist. Journalist? Yeah, exactly. So, okay, so there are these, I get it, I get it. I just wanna make sure that we're compartmentalizing

a little bit, not to say that they don't know that they're engaging in illegal activity. They just maybe aren't going, I'm with a kid fucker who's using this as potential blackmail or as an intelligence asset. Very true. And that's important. So let's get into actually sex trafficking and actually that whole thing. Don't let me speed you up.

No, you're fine. You're on your- So 1991 to 2005, I call this the Epstein heyday. So this is, I've gained control of the Wexner empire. I've transferred these assets and these properties into my name. Ghislaine is here and now it's on. So if you look from that, the Ghislaine Maxwell trial describes many of these Ohio properties being used specifically for sex trafficking purposes, right? So these are just in late 1994, late 1995, basically move from that point forward. The

Palm Beach Virgin Islands, you know, connection begins to materialize. We have the house in Palm Beach, we have the compound in the U.S. Virgin Islands, the Lolita Express, that's the Epstein Island. We have the Virgin Island that's acquired under the Epstein, basically, estate. Then we have the Lolita Express that's purchased, the private jet.

So all the pieces that are now famous, these all come into play between 91 and 2005. This was the heyday of the Epstein empire. Is this where you see the images of him and Trump hanging out? Exactly, 2002, that's when we have the first image. Although, I have it in my notes for the Trump-Epstein relationship. Let me go ahead and find that.

Don't let me speed you up. No, no, it's fine. You stay on this. So 2002, Trump says, I've known Jeff for 15 years. So basically putting our relationship back to the 1980s. Terrific guy, he's a lot of fun to be with. It's even said he likes beautiful women as much as I do. Many of them are on the younger side, no doubt about it.

Jeffrey enjoys his social life. So that's Donald Trump in 2002. Just again, to show everybody here what we're dealing with for the open secret. All right, so yes. He likes them on the younger side. He said it. And if you want this video, if you want to go ahead and play it, I have the YouTube link

from NBC News of them hanging out. Let me find it. Footage from 1992 actually. Can you go ahead and click that one? It's a YouTube link. It's from a NBC News package in 2002. It's some B-roll that actually shows them hanging out. So this is the famous,

you know, they're all hanging out together. And by the way, I haven't shown this yet, but there are photos of Trump and Robert Maxwell hanging out together as well in the past. So he certainly knew a lot of these individuals because he's dancing, they're at a party. Apparently in the mid 2000s, there was a party that was thrown involving Victoria's Secret Models that was put on by Epstein and another associate of Donald Trump where they all hung out. Who the other guy is? I actually don't know. I love his tie.

It's very 1990s. So anyway, look, footage, it all exists and I'm sparing nobody here. I want to be his too. To your earlier point, the super rich, the super elite is kind of a small circle. It's incredibly small. Not incredibly small. They all know each other. All physically together.

So in 15 years, you're gonna hear some whispers about one of your friends. It's not even a whisper, he said it out loud on the record. Yeah, he just said it. All right guys, we gotta take a break real quick because America is under attack. Our freedom is under attack. Epstein's list is being suppressed.

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You see me sipping out of it. It is, this is the reason that I'm not getting sent out of the country. Because Trump's team sees this and they're like, oh, he's one of the good ones. Yeah, patriot. Otherwise it might not matter that I'm a citizen. Black rival coffee keeps me in America. If I had to go back to India, I'd be in jail, but I'm here because of this. Yes. I do think it's a little bit offensive that Jameel handed me this specific flavor, Project Mango. I felt that is a bit of a slur from J Jamil handed me this specific flavor, Project Mango.

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You know what time it is. It's Bluetooth time. Listen, not all of us have a 12-inch dick like Alex Media, okay? Not all of us look at Conor McGregor's dick and say, oh my God, that thing is puny. Oh my God, his dick can only bench press 25 pounds. What a weak dick he must have. And if you're one of those people, which I am, who doesn't look at Conor McGregor's dick and say,

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That says something. Buy your next car today with CarGurus at CarGurus.ca. Go to CarGurus.ca to make sure your big deal is the best deal. That's C-A-R-G-U-R-U-S dot C-A. CarGurus.ca. 2002. Very important year in the Epstein story. 2002 is when journalist Vicki Ward, she works here in New York City, Vanity Fair magazine. This is the Vanity Fair article. And Vanity Fair, this is the very first premier magazine to say, who is this guy? Graydon Carter, the legendary Condé Nast editor, king of New York society. It basically works with Vicki and says, hey, let's go write about this Epstein figure. Vicki eventually uncovers evidence

of the young women trafficking, of the intelligence community ties, and all of this in 2002. How does she uncover this? Because she goes, she does a great job. She goes and interviews these people. That guy, Steven Hoffenberg, who's in prison, she interviewed him in prison,

and she didn't print his quotes until 20 years later because it was shut down by Graydon Carter. Now, Joey, can you please put up the story from New York Magazine? Can you quickly tell us why Graydon Carter would be able to? I understand the name, Conde Nast, but maybe explain to you.

Yeah, yeah, so what I'm having here in front of me is a very crazy story is that according to Carter, somebody put a bullet outside of his, I think it was either outside of his house or wherever he was, and a dead cat to intimidate him while he is investigating the Epstein story. So it eventually comes out. What is Conde Nast? Conde Nast, I mean, they own Vogue.

They employ, you know, if you have anyone who's ever seen The Devil Wears Prada, like that's based on Vogue magazine and Anna Wintour, that's part of the Conde Nast empire. The Conde Nast empire. Imagine with Rupert Murdoch with news stations. This is with magazines. And actually, dude, it's so hard because the audience here is going to be young. So they don't even remember the Vanity Fair heyday. This was a big fucking deal.

Before blogs, before your favorite Instagram page, there were magazines. This was the beating heart of American culture. Vanity Fair magazine, The New Yorker, Vogue magazine. Newspapers were information and magazines were more like op-ed. Yeah, magazines were not just op-ed. They were actually, the places were this type of journalism. I mean, there's stories that Condé and I asked about, guys were getting paid half a million dollars a year, they would write three stories a year.

But they would spend six months like Vicki Ward. Because it was really investigative journalism. It would change the face of the country. Some of my favorite journalists, there's a guy named Dexter Filkins at the New Yorker. He spent like six months. One of my favorite war reporters. They'll guy named Dexter Filkins at the New Yorker, he spent like six months. One of my favorite war reporters, they'll go out and report for six, seven months. I mean, conspiracy theories about it now. For like a 10,000 word article.

Theoretically, Watergate, whatever the conspiracy, take conspiracy theories aside, that's journalists breaking a story that caused a president to resign, changed the trajectory of the entire world. And now when it happens and you see like a 20 page article in the New Yorker or something like that, you're like, who the fuck reads it? And nobody really reads it. But at the time... Oh, it was everything.

And that's why like our parents, and I think that we're probably a little bit even too young us, maybe you just because you're involved in journalism so much. I have read about it so I can contextualize it, but I never experienced it. But this was the heyday of like information and it created habitual reading. Right? Just my parents had a subscription to New York Magazine and New Yorker. And like every single, when does it come out? It's weekly?

Yeah. It used to be, I don't know anymore. But it's like, so they're reading it every single, and the pieces that are in there, the assumption was that these were like real investigative journalism pieces and they're uncovering truths that take months and months to put together.

So they really gained like the support and trust at least of maybe like, I don't want to say, like more like coastal elites. It's what you just described, the global elite. The global elite is very small. It's like maybe 10,000 people who run the entire world. And actually that might even be a little bit generous and they're all subscribing to vote. I mean, look, Anna Wintour is still an icon amongst the super rich. So obviously it really matters.

So Epstein basically uses the threat of legal action to shut down any mention of his intelligence ties, which he's confronted with directly, any mention of the sex trafficking and the pedophilia accusations. And all of it is dropped from the Vanity Fair article that culminates in the 2002 story Who is Jeffrey Epstein the mysterious man of New York? But it basically it insinuates things about being with women and he knows everybody's friends with Harvey Weinstein He's friends with all of you know, New York society. Everybody seems to know him You have the quotes by Donald Trump and others

And so what we see there is oh two is a very important year because it shows his power his power to shut down Graydon fucking Carter his power to bring the Condé Nast empire to bear and say no no no no no you're not reporting any of This the power of using Harvey Weinstein and others to basically call all the journalists and other people around him and say I'm gonna sue The shit out of you if you report even one word of this now It's important to note that like shutting down stories is quite common. If you have a PR agency or something like that. Yes, especially at that time. When access really matters.

I would even say now, like you have a PR agency or something's about to release on TMZ and you know somebody over there at TMZ, you're like, yo, can you just not put out this story? If you hold this, I'll give you an exclusive on this in the future. But there's a quid pro quo, which is like, if you don't release this, I'll give you the first dibs on this story coming out with this album release. So that is, it is quite common practice, but to shut down a story that's making an allegation or multiple allegations this big, you need to have some serious weight and some serious quid pro quo.

I think it's got to be more than just lawsuit because these people, I mean, they're lured up to the gills. Like if you run Conde Nets. That's what I was trying to say. To understand how extraordinary this is, this is Conde fucking massive OT. This is a massive, I mean. Dude, even me and you, or in others, when people are like, I'm gonna sue you,

I'm like, yeah, good fucking luck. I'm like, all right, I've got insurance. I'm like, and I know how the First Amendment works in New York Times versus Sullivan. I'll be like, I'm gonna eat your fucking legal fees for lunch and I'll see you in court. All right? Because of the legal standard, if you are a public figure, like Epstein was basically

at that time, the bar for defamation and libel is so incredibly high. I actually really support that. It's one of my key differences with Trump is I think it's a good thing because it allows for journalism. Well, not just that. We can fucking go for it. We can go for it. Well, I want to be famous and I'm insecure, so let's not.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I'm not gonna throw it away here. I mean, I'll tell them, I'm gonna get into that in another time. Then why does he agree to this article? Is it just hubris?

Oh, Epstein? No, he didn't agree to it. No, he tried to shut the article down. Vicki Ward was assigned. Epstein did not want this to happen. Oh, really? He never wanted anything to come out. They changed the article to make it less

accusatory and salacious. You can actually go and read it today. I don't think we're understanding how crazy this is to intimidate Graydon Carter basically to take out a lot of the salacious things. To take out the intelligence. With a fucking bullet and a dead cat. We've seen the Godfather. It's the same thing. It's literally mobbed. Instead of a horse in the head it's a dead cat. It's crazy. And there's no way to prove that he in the head, it's a dead cat. And there's no way to prove that he was the one that did it, but having those... Listen, Graydon certainly believed it, and Graydon works and has dinner with the most powerful people in all of New York.

Has he spoken about this since? He has certainly not. He has not actually answered a whole lot of questions about this. So that's an important thing. But does he give comment to Vicki Ward here? Huh? You know, Epstein goes on the record in some places, but we don't learn the full extent of all of their exchange until 2021 after he's dead when she begins to reveal a lot of the stuff that she was actually had on the record in this story So this is the very first known time of a major expose Which would have really hurt Jeffrey Epstein if it had come out that he's able to shut down

Eventually in the future we see the same tactics with Good Morning America and with the Prince Andrew story, if you'll recall, of that famous video, the leaked video from CBS or ABC News, where she's like, I had this story, I had everything, and the palace shut it down. And Epstein and all of them basically came together, and we didn't want to lose our coverage of the royal wedding, and so we didn't publish any of this. And she's like, I had the story from day one. We didn't want to lose our coverage of the royal wedding. Exactly so we didn't publish any of this and she's like I had the story from day one.

We didn't want to lose our coverage of the Royal Wedding. Exactly. So we shut this down. The Prince Andrew story. We would have access to the Royal Wedding. Yes. So again, that's the quid pro quo. It's like if you want to work with us, if you want access to this, this story that you

know is going to probably sell way more ads than your Prince Andrew story. The Royal Wedding was fucking huge. You remember that? Women in America got up at like 5 a.m. to watch it. Yeah, which is wild. Sorry. Alex, go, go, go. It's good to ask questions about this.

I think we feel guilty asking because it looks like we're trying to create it out. I'm not trying to create it out. I'm trying to just understand the totality of this and where they would be coming from if they were going to defend it. So I'll say you question. You said that's 2002.

When she was working on that story. That story came out in 2002. Well actually it was published in March 2003 but it was reported throughout 2000. But then she doesn't release the other part of the story until 20 years later. Yeah basically after he's dead. That means you knew he was fucking kids. Well she didn't have evidence man. We're journalists. We can't say these things. No no no no. See this is very important. I can't just come out. This is what podcasts are important. Yeah, I can't just come out and say these things. So you can't just say anybody's fucking name. Without evidence, you need to, and look,

I talked about that. We've done it to Mark many times. I talked to him. I talked to him. But I talked about the barrier, the defamation stuff. Like you need to have some stuff on the record. And she did not have enough that they felt comfortable going forward with something like that.

I thought they felt comfortable. I thought they just took it out because of the intimidation. It's complicated. They're claiming that it didn't meet the evidentiary standard. I thought they felt comfortable. I thought they just took it out because of the intimidation. It's complicated. They're claiming that it didn't meet the evidentiary standard. Vicki Ward says otherwise. Look, I could see the case either way, but the point is that what's come out afterwards

is that Graydon Carter was terrified, and so it's not really about the story. It's that he was afraid to be able to publish it. So that is the context of his social power. Afraid for his... He seemed to be a pair of... He was afraid for his life. Okay, so because these are different things. Afraid for his... He seems to be a pair of... He's afraid for his life. But okay, so because these are different things.

Afraid for your life is different than afraid for the success of your, what would you call that, like a... His magazine. His magazine. His social cachet. His cachet. Yeah. Because if you lose access, you essentially have no cachet.

Right. Which is, ironically, what Epstein is concerned about. If Epstein becomes persona non grata because of this piece, he no longer can do the thing that he does, which is connect and liaison with super wealthy and influential people. There you go. Okay.

All right, so that gets us to 05. So, 91 to 05 is the heyday. 2005 is the first time that we really know about of a prolonged investigation into Epstein and eventually culminates in the sweetheart deal of 2008 so in 2005 a 14 year old girl who was lured by Epstein Maxwell Associates and all these people her father complains to the Palm Beach Police Department about being sexually abused by Jeffrey Epstein This leads to an undercover investigation by Palm Beach PD, where they launched this investigation where they're able to connect multiple underage girls

who are being lured by Epstein and Maxwell and other associates to the compound and the well oil system. There's a documentary on Netflix. This is the part they actually did quite well of just showing the way that that all worked. Search warrant finds hidden cameras, sex toys, basically proof of underage communications with Epstein.

They have him nailed dead to rights, probably 20 years or whatever, under state law. However, Epstein hires all of these extremely filthy, rich lawyers who are able to go to the Palm Beach Police Department. They claim that they were poking holes in their case. Palm Beach PD basically throws up their hands and they're like, look, I can't handle this shit.

They're like, this is a level of, this is a machine I'm going up against that I don't know how to combat this machine. They only have a bulletproof charge on him of solicitation of prostitution, but they go to the feds. Now the feds, of course, have the vast resources of the federal government, the Department of Justice. The person who's in charge at that time

is a guy named Alex Acosta. Alex Acosta, the US attorney for the Southern Florida. Now, US attorney for Florida, this comes under his purview. This investigation is launched under him using FBI resources. They are able to develop a large case against Jeffrey Epstein. The operation is called Operation Leap Year that is launched by them. Leap Year uncovers evidence that Epstein has an interstate sex trafficking operation Involving girls as young as 13 years old. Now, this is a very important point

We have a secret federal indictment that was issued against Jeffrey Epstein where they lay out all of this evidence for a sweeping indictment Which would have put him behind bars probably for I mean for probably for the rest of his life This is where the everything starts to happen. This is where the sweetheart deal comes into play. And it's at this point, after the secret federal indictment, that they come to the Epstein team and they're like, this is what we have on you,

let's begin a negotiation. Because they're looking for a plea deal, ultimately. Why are you looking for a plea? Well, I think it's part of, I think it's kind of customary. Where you bring, you know, when the feds investigate you, they have to customary. I think it's kind of customary where you bring- There's, okay. You know, when the feds investigate you, they have to send you a target letter. They're like, hey, you're under federal investigation.

You need to hire counsel, you know, just so we can get this whole ball rolling. I mean, something like 95% of people charged by the federal system plead guilty, so it's quite common. Most people don't go to trial. The feds don't want you to go to trial. If they do, they're going to smack you. Yeah. They'll hit you with charge after charge.

Every single- You're going to spend the rest of your life in prison. The vast, vast majority of people in federal prison plead guilty. And that's why they have the 95% conviction rate. That's why they have their conviction rate. Exactly. So that's how they get to it. And there's a variety of systemic issues. So it was all generally par for the course up until this point. That's when Epstein hires Alan Dershowitz. That's when he hires all these

Bush-connected officials. All of these others. Why is Dershowitz Bush-connected? Well, no, no, no. Not Dershowitz. There are when he hires all of these Bush connected officials. All of these others. All of these others. Dershowitz-Bush connected. Well, no, no, no, not Dershowitz. They're other lawyers on the team who are connected to George W. Bush, the administration, to Republican politics in general because George W. Bush is the president at this time.

And it's at this time that you have the sweetheart non-prosecution agreement that is agreed upon by Alex Acosta and the Epstein legal defense team. Now at this time too, this is a very important point. Joey, can you please put up my tweet? Epstein flees to Israel while he negotiates his deal with Acosta. So if you go to the first slide there, please. Yes, this is from a Vicki Ward story. Talk that Epstein had moved himself and his assets to Israel had reached the ears of such luminaries as Harvey Weinstein, Jeff Buks, Alex Gibney, Taylor Hackford, story, talk that Epstein had moved himself and his assets to Israel had reached the ears of such luminaries as Harvey Weinstein, Jeff Buks, Alex Gibney, Taylor Hackford, Dustin

Hoffman, Alec Baldwin and filmmaker Michael Mailer. Has anyone told Vicki Ward, I heard someone say, ah fame, ever since I wrote this article about Epstein in the March 2003 story. I've had dubious honor of being considered the New York expert on the case. Well, I've never been one to leave a riddle unsolved, so I called Epstein's office to ask. Around lunchtime, he phoned me laughing, assuming he'd been in Israel, but assuring me he'd been in Israel, but was now back in New York.

And he says, would you want to live in Israel? As he denigrates that. So he goes to Israel while this sweetheart deal is being negotiated. This is very important, okay? Again, very important is that he was safe in Israel for reasons that remain unknown to us to this day. And he generally can't lead the country if you're under investigation.

Yeah, and actually, yeah, Joey, can you go to the next slide there? That's not a thing the government will allow. When he returns to America, as you can see right there, April 2008, Epstein returns from Israel before pleading guilty. Some question why he was allowed to even keep his passport While his team is undergoing negotiation with the federal government. Can you explain how normal that is? That is not normal

Yeah, so that is extremely not if you have money like that. Yeah, you're a flight risk. Yeah So while you're being federally investigated, they will take your password because you're a flight It's very similar to what happened I think at least in the beginning of the Diddy trial Remember there was there's the words like Diddy was gonna flee, and I think that they told him that he had to stay in America, right? So I don't have the, so to be clear,

I don't think it's while investigation. There are other, I'm not a lawyer, but the way I'd read about it is it was very uncommon at that time, especially after he agreed to plead guilty, because remember, he agrees to plead guilty under a non-prosecution agreement in September 2007. This is April 2008. During this period, he is in Israel where he's effectively, he's going to plead guilty.

2007 or 2008? So 2007 to 2008 is while he is in Israel. Again, basically the theory was, the open talk in New York society that Vicki Ward heard is that Epstein had moved himself and all his assets to Israel. This is apparently, by the way, a common thing, relatively common, for pedophiles who are Jewish in the United States who actually have fled to Israel to escape prosecution.

Really? Yeah, actually, Joey, can you go down, Glenn Greenwald? That is a bad look for Israel, dude. How Jewish American pedophiles hide from justice in Israel. Why do they accept it? Well, Israel has the right to return for every Jew in the world. It's called Aliyah.

So they're taking advantage of like a... Yeah, some of them are taking advantage and basically being able to go to Israel. It's complicated as well in terms of extradition agreements, et cetera, but Glenn Greenwald flagged that piece to me, How Jewish American Pedophiles Hide from Justice. But sorry, just to try to understand this, is that something that the United States just allows for anybody? Again, I actually don't know. Because I know.

I only learned of it yesterday. I didn't realize that it wasn't just Epstein, that there's just like a common enough phenomenon that people have written a story about it before. I need to go look into it in general. I would hope personally that we use our influence with all allies or any extradition agreement that anybody charged with a crime like this

against children be immediately extradited to the United States of America. I would assume if you're, because I mean, my friends that are in trouble with the Indian government over a joke, they took their passports. They just got them back. But like, I don't even know if one of them got them back. You're under arrest for freedom of speech potentially. We're going to trial. You have my passport.

This guy is on trial for pedophilia. Not on trial. He's in, he didn't go on trial, he's in an investigation. He's been under investigation. I apologize. Investigation and eventually a non-prosecution agreement, which is different because he admits to pleading. So he hasn't been charged yet?

Well, he had not been charged yet. He enters the non-prosecution agreement in September 2007. While he's here or while he's away? While he's in Israel. So while he's in Israel, he enters. So his legal team enters on his behalf. He had already left. What I'm trying to understand, did he do anything illegal by leaving?

No, I don't think so. Or anything that's illegal. I don't think he did anything. It's not normal. It's more about the question of why do you feel so safe in Israel? And it's like, why are you going over there with all your assets? Did you get some promises there from the government? But are you normally allowed to leave the country?

Again, if you look at that Tom Beach story, scroll up Joey and again, put that screenshot about returns from Israel to the next one. It was noted at the time, this is a report from the Palm Beach local news, that it was uncommon and that there were questions at the time why he was allowed to keep his passport. Obviously it looks incredibly fucked up, but I am trying to steel men in terms of, let's say that there was somebody that all had dual citizenship to Britain. They're being investigated for something.

Could they go stay in Britain? Yes, yeah. They can. So that would be okay and maybe not common, but it would be legal. Correct. Although you just made an important point there is that we have never yet been acknowledged that Epstein ever was an Israeli citizen. So we have no idea whether he's-

Is he at that time? We have no idea. To this day, we don't know. We do know that he was found with false passports that were inside of his house in New York City, so it's possible that he even- What do you mean, false passports? Yes. Can you Google it, please, Joey?

Epstein passports that were found at his New York City residence. This is an open and acknowledged fact, and I'll come back to this, because it's part of the intelligence case. Who the fuck has false Passports it's not exactly a easy thing for multiple passports and travels to Africa and to the Middle East and they were found in his Residence in his New York City guys the Jason born of fuckers. Yeah, I never understood false passports Yeah, everything's connected. Yeah, that's right Right, which means that there's no really such thing as a false passport and there's a passport that's issued to you under false pretenses by foreign governments.

So let's just go with that. Or by your own government. Or possibly by your own government. Wow. Wow. In the age of the barcode, there's no false passport. Okay? Wow.

When's the last time you guys flew into America? Do you know how much biometric data and all that stuff is there? Business is not happening. But like CIA can issue passports. CIA can issue a passport under that that will clear State Department. I mean look. Which would confirm the connections to intelligence. Soports. No, CIA can issue a passport under that that will clear State Department. I mean, look, even if you- Which would confirm the connections to intelligence.

So look, yeah, go, go, go. No, I was just saying, when you land in any country in the world, even the jankiest country in the world at this point, everybody's swiping the passport. Yeah. It's all there. So then the question would be, or the logical thinking would be, he goes to Israel, and while this deal is being negotiated, if the deal is not advantageous to him, I'm staying in Israel.

Then he's staying. Staying in Israel. Wow. Now, is there, is that, does he have enough leverage where staying in Israel is actually a threat to the US intelligence apparatus? This is unfortunately, we still don't know, because this is all part of the unreleased, perhaps Epstein files, and I would be happy to be wrong. So in one circumstance, it could be as simple as, I'm not living in America as a pedophile,

I'd rather just live over here. I'd rather live in Israel. I'm gonna stay, and there is no intelligence involved. There is another version where it's like, hey, I'm gonna go over here, do you want me to tell all these guys everything I know? Because I could easily just tell them everything I know, and they'll accept that information.

Let's actually really sit on this, because this is what leads to the sketchy non-prosecution agreement. So September 2007, Alex Acasa offers Epstein non-prosecution agreement despite massive evidence of a sex trafficking ring that crosses state lines, a textbook definition of a federal case. He pleads only to the solicitation of prostitution involving a minor and he must register as a sex offender The conditions of his non prosecution agreement

Basically say he must spend 18 months in the Palm Beach County jail. He has weekend release He's allowed 12 hours a day six days a week to basically do whatever he wants There is some evidence that he actually continued some of his trafficking while he was actually locked up in prison. He had a black car that would pick him up for 12 hours a day. It's the greatest deal in the entire world. And all he has to do is serve 18 months under these sweetheart conditions. And what he is able to do is that he is only asked to register as a sex offender. He does not spend decades in federal prison like a regional investor.

So he gets to leave 12 hours a day? That's a job. Yes, four, six days a week. Yeah, it's called work release. They actually call it work release. That was the conditions. Now, here's another very important thing about this plea deal. Under this non-prosecution agreement, the federal government grants immunity for all

crimes that were under investigation of that indictment to Jeffrey Epstein and to all unindicted co-conspirators, including Ghislaine Maxwell. So this non-prosecution agreement grants sweeping immunity of all crimes that were named in the secret indictment, both for Ghislaine Maxwell and for Jeffrey Epstein. Pause right here. So in other words, he gets this slap on her wrist compared to what they're investigating for. That's right.

And he gets to wipe the slate clean for all the way more shit. Now he gets immunity. That's different than wiping the slate clean. Does he then acknowledge all the things that happened through his immunity? I don't believe so. I think it was just that these were the crimes that you were being investigated for and we're going to basically agree that we'll never prosecute you for them in exchange for us. It's a limited hangout.

Yeah, it's like a, exactly. What is that called? Limited hangout. What does that mean? Basically it's like the publishing of some of the bad things that you did in order to hide all of the bad things you did. So everything before 2008, he gets off with 18 months.

Well, everything in the secret indictment that was against. Yes, exactly. Which we imagine is. Which by the way still exists and has never been released to this day. So there is a virgin, a lot of them. There is a version where we could, is there any version where we could learn about what was in that indictment? Yeah, they could release it if they wanted to. These are part of the promises that have been made by the Trump administration. But would that break the immunity agreement?

Yes, it would. Well, actually, no. So hold on a second. This is part of the reason. Can you put that back up because this is important? And immunity is different than getting your race out. The reason why we ever learn anything about this is because of the victims and the courageous victims who, according to the law on the books at the time, is that the victims themselves had a right, a federal right to be informed

of this non-prosecution agreement. This non-prosecution agreement was kept secret from the Epstein victims at the time, which violates federal law. And once these people fight for justice, and it's in 2018 that a court rules that the Epstein non-prosecution agreement violates the federal rights of The Epstein victims it's under that ground that the non-prosecution agreement is overturned And it is under then that the Southern District of New York is able to arrest Jeffrey Epstein on new charges So this civil right this this lawsuit is the yeah the crime victims rights act That's exactly what it is except to complain

They were not informed the government's deal deal and were very unhappy about it because they trusted the feds to basically work, basically to give them justice on their behalf. And they ruled, the district court ruled, that it violated their rights under the Crime Victims' Rights Act and overturned the non-prosecution agreement, which opens the door to his rearrest in 2019. Okay, so hold on right here. Because it overturns that conviction. I don't want to say conviction, but it overturns the non-prosecution agreement and the immunity, we should now legally have access to the indictment

and investigation. We don't legally have access to it. Why is that? Why is there legal? Why can you overturn something, but he still gets immunity through it? Well, he didn't have immunity. They just re-indicted him on new charges. But there's still an open question as to whether all the new charges in the 2019 indictment

against Epstein include the secret indictment and many of the charges that were made against him. So bare minimum, there would be nothing that would go against our system of justice that would simply expose all the charges and investigation in that initial crime or those initial crimes, right? Because it was overthrown? Well, it's complicated. So I do know that the grand jury docs were actually released from 2006. I have this in front of me because I don't have all of the details exactly on here, but it's not the full like actual investigation. I guess what I'm trying to get at is this doesn't necessarily prove a blackmail ring,

which it seems the narrative is incredibly popular online. It's something that we've obviously talked about, but it would at least acknowledge the accusations and the extent of the crimes that he was accused of, Yeah. Which we haven't really gotten to at all. We've heard about them. Yes. But that information is not, and I think what would be very interesting about that is that if we have access to that information,

yes, it might not incriminate the co-conspirators. No, actually it would incriminate those co-conspirators now, but that would be okay because those people were being investigated and was going to go to trial anyway. We don't fall into that same Maxwellization Act or whatever I was talking about before. Yes, that's right. Right? This idea that like, oh, you were a round-up scene so we don't want your name to be mentioned because your image could be tarnished when you weren't actually accused of anything.

No, no, this is, they were accusing you of it and they were ready to go to trial. That's right. They were willing to go. So release that bare minimum. Bare minimum we should have all that. But they were accusing you of it and they were ready to go to trial. That's right. They were willing to go. So release that bare minimum. Bare minimum we should have all of that. But they've released some of that. They've released the grand jury documents. All of it.

But exactly. So this gets to the whole point and then even then whether we can really trust whether all those grand jury documents which are only released about a year or so ago. And by the way, I'm not a lawyer so if I misspeak on any of this stuff like please forgive me, I'm actually just trying to compile all the evidence. What we do know, at least according to the Justice Department, is that this was a deal that should never have happened. But that doesn't happen until 2020

after Epstein kills himself. After the Office of Professional Responsibility officially says Alex Acasso showed poor judgment whenever he entered this investigation. But that's the whole ball game here, is why we did not, why we let him off on a sweetheart deal. Go ahead. Was Ghislaine the only co-conspirator that got immunity to the evidence?

I think if she wasn't named in it, it was to any co-conspirator. She wasn't specifically named, but it did cover her because she was one of the people who was named in it. I guess it covered all co-conspirators. But who else was covered? I'd have to revisit that exact case, but I know there were assistants and other people who would have covered all co-op. But I think that's what's asking, who else was covered? I'd have to revisit that exact case, but I know there were assistants and other people who were involved.

That's the thing. I mean, look, this doesn't just, it's like, remember Harvey Weinstein and all of his assistants? And then there's a show there. And it was like, get the fuck out of here. And it was like, well, hold on a second. It was like, there's a lot of people that need to know about this to make this all happen.

So here's a weird question, kind of, why would that judge in 2018 suddenly kind of buck everything else that's happened and say, no, these victims have a right to justice? Because it's a clear-cut case. It's literally the law that they had to be informed of the non-prosecution agreement. Very ignorant question. Why would it take 10 years?

Were other judges being like, no? The legal system is very slow. That's just basically what it is. Also, a lot of them were felt in silence. A lot of them didn't even know about it. They learned about it later. They didn't know about it. And after they learned about it, they thought that this had Also, a lot of them were felt in silence. A lot of them didn't even know about it. They learned about it later. And after they learned about it, they thought that this had all been a lot more penal,

he'd been penalized more after they learned, again, that documentary on Netflix, that actually goes into all of these specifics. But I'm more focused on the intelligence question. That's like the case I wanna really stick with because that's the whole ball game is here, is why did Acosta let him off? Before you get to that Mark, what were you saying?

Do you know if the statute of limitations applies for these kinds of things if someone's sort of like collaboration with a crime is nullified? Yeah, well we'd have to do the math, but if you think about the statute of limitations Ghislaine goes on trial for crimes in the 1990s. So presumably, you know, all of her convictions, if it's in what, 2021, I think she was convicted, then let's go back some 20 years. So there must be the statute of limitations. There is for everything, I think, but murder. But it presumably does go back like decades enough that she was able to be prosecuted.

So then the other co-conspirators. The other co-conspirators could also be prosecuted. And wouldn't it wipe away the statute of limitations if there was proven that the case wasn't handled according to the legalities of our justice situation? I'm not a lawyer. I don't know. You know what I'm saying? Let's say like they-

You would think so, but I could also see some bullshit way where they're like, no, it's the government's fault for entering into a bad thing, so you can't prosecute it. But- Well, they didn't enter into a bad thing. They didn't tell the victims of the agreement. So I would imagine it's like a mistrial and you're allowed to do it again. I don't think that the statute of limitations would wipe that away. I think the victims will just have right to see that agreement.

I don't think it would undo the agreement. Yeah, exactly. The thing is that they didn't have to do anything except tell them, hey guys, this is what we did. And they just didn't do it because it was a sweetheart deal. And they didn't want to reveal why he's able to get away with this. But this is kind of what brings me- Miles has one question before we- Oh, go ahead, Miles. Really, really quick. The Freedom of Information Act, would this apply at any point? Is there like a

time in which this will have to release? That's a FOIA. It's a big FOIA question. So FOIA, I mean, it can take forever in the Department of Justice. And there are various like classification rules. This leads, remember there was redactions in the Epstein files. And even then it has to go through review of the FOIA officer. This is not really something that we'll ever find out via FOIA. That's almost impossible. Got it. And then secondly, when people talk about the word or like say Epstein files, are they generally referring to this secret indictment?

Is that the bulk of it? Or are there so many other pieces? I'm trying to find the secret indictment details here. Yeah, the sealed federal indictment prepared by the Southern District of New York that led to his eventual July 2019 arrest. This was under seal in late June. So this basically goes back to the indictment that was previous prior to the non-prosecution agreement.

That's what I'm talking about. That is not what the Epstein supposed files are. And this is the other problem. Nobody really knows what the Epstein files are. And there's been this bastardization, again, of this idea of the black book and the so-called client list. I'm telling you, it doesn't work like that. There are names in books. Some of the names in the Epstein black book actually turned out he never met them.

So Epstein files to me is financial records, is the entire- Co-conspirators. Co-conspirators, the original investigation documents, the FBI 302s and you know the... What's the operation? That's what we're going to learn about. That's what we all want to know. But didn't they take a bunch of tapes and DVDs from his...

And the tapes that were allegedly lost about the cash and the artwork and all the flight logs which are still not entirely released and very been released in drips and dabs. Lost this hilarious. I hate when they do that. So let's focus here on the non-prosecution agreement and why this did not happen and the case for why. It is very, in my opinion, likely he was an intelligence asset.

So in 2019, Joe, if you could please put this up from the Daily Beast, Vicki Ward, remember this is Vicki Ward, this is the person who reports from Vanity Fair 2002, probably the foremost authority on Epstein. She reports that Alex Acosta, while he was being screened by the Trump transition team in 2017, when he was asked, why did you back off the Epstein case, she says here, she was told he belonged to intelligence and to let it go.

Now this, I wanna be clear, it's not been confirmed 100% that he said this. This is reporting from Vicki Ward from about the Trump transition team. Now though, if you can go to the next link that I sent, in 2019 when Alex Acosta holds a press conference about this entire issue, and he has asked specifically about intelligence

ties of Jeffrey Epstein and whether he would confirm this, he says, quote, I would hesitate to that reporting as fact, but he would not deny it. Later on, he is asked on the record here by the Office of Professional Responsibility, whether he had any information that Epstein was an intelligence asset. He says, absolutely not, I did not have information. And he's informed that he is allowed to speak about this in a classified setting if he would like to, but he denies that he had information.

But it's important to actually release the exact transcript as to what and how he was asked. Because you remember when I said earlier, when Naftali Bennett said he never worked for Mossad, that's very different than worked with Mossad. That's very different than was aware of, had contact with, right? Do you see what I'm saying?

There are multiple non-denial- It will be very specific with their wording to evade the truth. Correct, as any lawyer and any former U.S. attorney would know when he's under question. But nonetheless, Alex Acosta had an opportunity to address this and issued a non-denial denial in his public press conference in 2019. Last time I was here, I told you guys my great regret is I sat next to him on a plane and

I didn't ask him about it. Because it was a midnight flight from Miami and nobody was talking. And I'm just staring at this dude being like, bro, I gotta ask. He probably thought I was such a freak. He's like who is this guy? Anyway so Alex if you're listening I would still love to talk to you about it. But he's never confirmed or denied. He's never confirmed, he's never denied it. He basically lives, I mean look he lives a private private life in Miami. He can come out at any time. He did kind of deny in his final.

He said here, and didn't really deny it. This is why he wants the exact transcript. This is why the exact transcript matters, because he said, here, let's open it up very specifically. Is that transcript available? No, it's not available. And actually, that's one of the EPSCENE files that people would release. So Kosta told OPR he did not have any information about cooperating in

federal investigation or relating to media reports that Epstein had, quote, been an intelligence asset. OPR says it did not find any reference to his purported cooperation or even a suggestion. In the footnote, they says when OPR asked Acosta about his apparent equivocation in a 2019 press conference and answering the media question about Epstein being an intelligence asset, he said, quote, the answer is no. So that's what he told them. Okay? Let's be in a 2019 press conference and answering the media question about Epstein being an intelligence asset, he said, quote, the answer is no. So that's what he told them. Okay.

Let's be clear about what he said, at least in one on the record setting, because there are various different reporting on this. I am personally inclined to take the totality of evidence of everything I talked about, about his connections with Huffenberg, with Adnan Khashoggi, with Douglas Lees to show all of his connections that we're about to get into with with with Israel and say I think there's a pretty good case to be made. And let's also get now to why the intelligence community would ever want to cover this stuff up.

All right. Why? So can we go to the next link, please? This is from BuzzFeed News 2021, a great reporter, Jason Leopold. He's like the FOIA king. And what he reported in 2021 is secret CIA files say that staffers committed sex crimes involving children. Declassified CIA Inspector General report shows a pattern of abuse and repeated decision

by the federal prosecutors not to hold agency personnel accountable. Now why? And by the way, some of hold agency personnel accountable. Now why? And by the way, some of these agents abuse children as young as two and six, which are named here in the documents. Oh my fucking goodness. All right? And so why would the feds not want to prosecute known pedophiles, people who are actually abusing children, not just child pornography?

Why? They were concerned if they prosecuted them in open court, that sources and methods would be revealed. Methods court that sources and methods would be revealed. Methods. So in sources and methods. So in 10 different known times here from the CIA Inspector General, they decided not to prosecute known pedophiles specifically to make sure that they could protect intelligence at the expense of justice and bringing people and putting these people in jail.

So that shows you that there is a track record here from the United States government, from the CIA Inspector General report, in which even in a much lower level scenario, that they don't want this information to come to light. Not because they necessarily care about the justice, they care at the end of the day about sources and methods and about at all costs, they want to keep all of these people out of open court because those people might start talking a whole lot of shit while they're on the transcript, on the record, and they might say, hey, you put me in federal prison, I'm going to tell the whole world what I know.

And in exchange, they're let off with probably the worst crime that you can commit, you know, literally, in my opinion, like the worst possible crime that you can commit. We're talking about the sexual abuse here of children as young as two and as six. Second one, and this shows you actually a more systematic one. Shout out to my friend, Darrell Cooper, who flagged this case to me in his podcast. I highly recommend it,

the Martyr Made Podcast on Epstein Files. So this is something he brought to my attention by his podcast, is that all throughout the 1970s and 1980s, there was this place called the Conchora Children's Home in Northern Ireland, where it was basically a hub and an orphanage for orphan boys who were being systematically abused by intelligence assets known to MI6 and MI5. It was basically covered up and ignored because they were key conduits in helping MI5 manage the Northern Irish problem during the Troubles. This is a clear cut example of basically how it works.

So everybody understands, MI5, MI6 is a British intelligence. These are British intelligence. And then the Troubles is a time in which there was a Irish resistance. Irish resistance against the UK and Northern Ireland, and it's complicated. I'm not a full expert.

So the argument is in order to manage that resistance, they had these intelligence assets. Who were sexually abusing children. They knew they were sexually abusing children. And they let it happen because it was advantageous to handle the troubles. Because it was advantageous to continue that intelligence. What I'm just showing you though,

is that this has all happened in the past. But just so we can clarify, it doesn't mean MI5 and MI6 are orchestrating the molestation of these children. It means that they're looking the other way, which is equally heinous. It's honestly worse in my opinion. I actually think it's worse.

Okay, fair enough. Yeah. Because it is advantageous for what the, current administration or what the country wanted at the time. And so you were using this as evidence that intelligence communities the country wanted at the time. And so you were using this as evidence that intelligence communities have done this in the past. These are verified incidents.

They show us this has happened. And real quick, it would lend itself to this idea that intelligence communities were aware of what EPSIM was doing and was able to look the other way because there was access to certain information. And money. And money that they wanted. So it would thwart this idea that the government is actively using Epstein as a worker, if you will, to run a blackmail ring.

But it would confirm this idea that they were aware of this pedophile sex trafficking ring happening and they allowed it to happen so as long as they could continue to use him as an asset. Which I think is an important slice because I think the internet has taken Epstein and turned him into the Mossad, CIA, government blackmail ring that they use to incriminate the elites, which at this point in time we don't know if there's any evidence of that. But it seemed like there's overwhelming evidence to his access to these elites and his utility to intelligence services.

Correct. That's exactly right. I wonder if it's advantageous for intelligence to have an asset or someone like this that has such a malignant proclivity. Correct. Your exact, see, this is very important. Can you go on, can you continue on this? Just like if basically you have someone that's able to have access to all this information and money,

but also is a known pedophile. He's much easier to control and coerce. So it's like in the hood, if you got a crackhead or a heron addict, that you need him to do some fuck shit, but they always got to come back to you because they're addicted to the thing you got. Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, the FBI looks the other way for... on criminals. Actually, Joey, can you Google this? It's like, confidential informants commit crimes, FBI. There was a report recently, it came out a couple of years ago, that named the number of crimes that the FBI allowed its confidential informants to commit while it was working with them.

This is Whitey Bulger. Yeah, but it's not Whitey. It's like, it goes way bigger than that. Whitey would be the biggest version. Yeah, the perfect example of that. So the notorious Boston gangster, who was always an FBI informant, but they allowed him to continue to run shit in Boston.

I mean, it's thousands of crimes. It's shocking, actually. For a CIA profian dictator, and they can do whatever they want to their people. They can do whatever you want, as long as you keep certain things going. Oh, you can kill tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people,

as long as it's your loyal ass. You could say like, I would Google something like confidential informants, commit crimes, like FBI admits something like that. Maybe we can find that. I'm just citing it off the top of my head. Sorry, in the meantime, since I've looked at it. Do we have any idea what he's

providing that is worth the kids getting? There it is, yeah. There we go. FBI allowed informants to commit 5,000 crimes or something. It's like maybe 5,000 or 50,000. I can't read that line. Exactly. Again, I'm trying to cite- 5,600 crimes. I'm trying to show everybody that this is business as usual for the federal government. And just to clarify, not all these crimes are kid fucking.

Yeah, that's right. Some of these crimes are drug running. Most of it's drug dealing. Some of these crimes are drugs. Exactly. There are illegal activities that the FBI is aware of and they allow these people to operate in these spaces. They know that they're operating these spaces and being watched just as long as that information trickles back. For example, if you're a gun runner in America, you want to send some guns to some third world country, the FBI or the CIA is going to be aware of that. They can tap you for that information.

And they might actually want those guns to get over there. Totally. And they might need somebody like you were describing, to ensure that those guns actually get there for their nefarious purposes. But again, I just wanna parcel this. It's not like the only crimes being committed or having sex with children. No. It is quite common that you are using

these nefarious characters to carry out the horrible crimes that you cannot be associated, as you pointed out earlier. Business as usual. Yeah, all we're pointing out, it's business as usual. It's just extended to the furthest possible one. Yeah, this is- Peniphilia. That is a great the furthest possible one. Yeah, this is- A pedophilia.

That is a great word. I'm struggling. Yeah, yeah. And we all struggle with that because we're good people. Right? But when you're surrounded by this- Look, it's all, how do you commit major crimes, right? It's all a buildup.

Like nobody just starts out immediately like going for a billion dollar Ponzi scheme. I mean, one of my favorite books is the history of the Madoff scheme. It starts small, man. It starts with one, it's one doctored paper, and then it leads to this, and then there's one lie, it's one quarter, it's just one.

That's all, and then you take another, and next thing you know you're running a 56 billion dollar Ponzi scheme, okay? And it takes 50 years to get there. But it doesn't happen all overnight. It happens in a permission structure in an environment of crime. This permission structure is huge.

This might be the most obvious answer in the world, or there is no answer and that's obvious. What intelligence is he providing? Do we have any idea? I don't know. That it's like, oh, well, this is potentially a pedophilia ring involving the most powerful people in the world.

And instead of having any kind of justice, this information is worth it. So let's speculate at this, because this is pure speculation, we have no idea. And this is part of what it would be great to get from files or investigation or a church committee. You know, the church committee actually would be the only answer here. We need a congressional committee. Sure, we know about pedophilia.

Do you know what the church committee is? No, it's in the 19th century. It was Senator Frank Church, who was American hero. No church can help itself, dude. You didn't even call it the church committee. Senator Frank Church in the 1970s exposed Co-Intel Pro, all of the out of control operations by the FBI and the CIA, and he brought the intelligence community to bear post Watergate. And basically America didn't trust them anymore. Senator Church basically seized on this. He exposed a lot of the issues with the Black Panthers, with Co-Intel Pro, with the

Can you explain Co-Intel Pro to anybody who's watching right now? Co-Intel Pro was a CIA... is that mind control? What am I thinking of? No, of course. Co-Intel Pro is basically agent provocateurs. I'm getting them all mixed up. Agent provocateurs. You put the FBI agents in peaceful protests. Like with the Black Panthers. So there's that. And then what was the mind control? MK Ultra. That's MK Ultra. That's MK Ultra That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right.

That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right.

That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right.

That's right. That's right. That's right. That's against their own citizens in violation of the law. But to answer your question, like he was an arms dealer, money launderer, that's a lot of information. Oh, by the way, I'm speculating. That's not confirmed. What I'm trying to say is there is a lot of evidence that points in that direction. I can't get further without the documents,

without the verification. He was just acting like what information could he have given. Knew a lot of arms dealers, knew a lot of people who were doing it. So, you know, look, we can only speculate as to what is exactly happening. Bare minimum, what we can confirm is that he was involved, obviously outside the child sex trafficking, that he was doing illegal money laundering.

He appears, in my opinion, to have been doing that. Well, didn't he get caught at Bear Stearns? Maybe not money laundering, but insider trading. Yeah, he was doing something that violated compliance rules in the 1980s. So he's doing illegal stuff for the transfer of money, probably tax evasion, which is quite common when you're dealing with this type of money, but still willing to go to illegal measures to prop up the wealth of the world's elites. That opens up his own firm and only accepts billionaires.

Billionaire, right. So again, what are we doing? That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to open up a podcast. Only for billionaires. Actually, today, it would be the equivalent of saying only 20 billion, right? There's not that many people who are worth more than 20.

And what if there was one guy that was managing the money of all the richest people in the world? It would be advantageous for the intelligence communities of any country to have access to that guy. You would actually be quite foolish if you didn't. If you didn't, you have to have something. Exactly, so this is where again, like we can only speculate. What did they get out of this?

In my opinion, in the 1980s, he was obviously financing arms deals. There's just like clear cut case for me. That's the most useful. Black money is the most useful thing in the world to a US intelligence or Mossad intelligence, Saudi intelligence, any of these other people. Then it gets to the question of the whole blackmail thing. And look, I think there is at least some evidence here in the case of Wexner and others, that it appears to look like blackmail was used by Epstein

for his personal financial gain. And then we combine the two to where we have hidden cameras that we know about in the Virgin Islands, that we know about in the New York residence, that we know about in Palm Beach. Many of this footage and other things never have been released. We know about the DVDs and other things.

On the cameras, I think it's important to note that it's not simply security cameras. I have cameras in all my homes. As you show. Exactly, like they were wired for audio as well. That's right. And they were in the bathrooms. Yeah.

I don't have, yes. But I actually think that's another interesting point because that doesn't necessarily mean it's only sexual blackmail. Oh, I would imagine it's more, not that. Come over to my house for a meeting. Yeah, let's just talk about some stuff. You go to the bathroom and you're like,

this fucking weirdo, I gotta get the hell outta here, he's a piece of shit, blah, blah, blah. And now you got that locked and then the FBI gets access to that information. Which I think is an important delineation that you might have some head of state, and let's say they're in the Epstein files as, oh, there is audio visual blackmail of Bill Clinton

or Ehud Barak. it might not necessarily be sexual. Yeah, you're exactly right. All right guys, let's take a break for a second. You need to take care of your mental health, okay? We know how important it is, but we also know how daunting it seems to drive up from a therapist's office every single week, and that's where Talkspace comes in.

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I lost $7,000 last time out of 10. Wow. So that's me. Almost hard to do. So this time they gave me more money. All I'm doing is Bitcoin. That's it. I'm not fucking around with fart coin anymore. Everybody's sending me their meme coins. Fuck yourselves. It's Bitcoin only for me. What about you guys? I think I'm mostly Bitcoin too and I think I've been doing okay. Little Eeth. You're up the most. I think I'm up the most. Yeah. I'm being honest I didn't pick them. Bet you had a Jewish person pick them.

Yeah, you had your handler pick them. I didn't have my Jewish handler pick it. It's working out. You're winning. You also got gold. A lot of gold, a lot of diamonds. I bought real estate. No, I doubled down on Epstein coin and it's crushing right now. I'm like, I'm through the roof, dude. They should make that. I don't even know if that's real gold.

You know they don't ever show you the results of how that coin is? Yeah. Yeah. Trump said that there's actually no coin. What the hell? What did I put all my money in? This is crazy.

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It won't take long to tell you Neutral's ingredients. Vodka, soda, natural flavors. Vodka, soda, natural flavors. So what should we talk about? No sugar added. Neutral, refreshingly simple. Let's get to Eid Barak. This is important because now I want to start making the Israel case specifically. So we already talked about how earlier Epstein... Jesus!

Well look, I want to present this factually. I don't need people coming with the anti-Semitism accusations. Let's live only in the world of facts. Do people make those accusations anymore? Yeah, absolutely. Wait, that happens? Today, right now, this entire thing is going to be branded anti-Semitic, let's live only in the world of fact. Do people make those accusations anymore? Yeah, oh absolutely. Wait, that happens? Today, right now, this entire thing is going to be branded anti-Semitic. Well, listen, I don't care anymore, but even though they are going to say that no matter what, we should not be irresponsible and let's live in the world of fact.

So go ahead, Joey, and scroll down. That sounds pretty fucking anti-Semitic. To the things that I have. That says Epstein and A.B. Brock. So okay, let's go ahead and put this up here. Here are the lists that I compiled just yesterday of every Israeli prime minister who we know who is linked to Jeffrey Epstein.

Number one is Shimon Peres. Shimon Peres was the prime minister of Israel in the 1980s. He, according to Ehud Barak himself in the open record, introduced Ehud Barak to Jeffrey Epstein. So that's the first prime minister of Israel that we know is linked to Jeffrey Epstein. Number two is Ehud Omer, who is named to Jeffrey Epstein. So that's the first prime minister of Israel that we know is linked to Jeffrey Epstein. Number two is Aoud Omer, who is named as an Epstein associate by the U.S. Virgin Islands in their lawsuit

against JP Morgan and Chase. I will be honest, Aoud Omer, we have the least amount of information, we only know he was named by the U.S. Virgin Islands as an Epstein associate. Number three, Aoud Barak, as I list there. Connection's too vast to paraphrase, all right? And so let's spend some time now on Ehud Barak. Let me return to Netanyahu in a bit.

In my document, you can scroll to the Epstein and Ehud Barak section. Ehud Barak stayed for multiple times at Jeffrey Epstein's house. This is confirmed. He flew dozens of times on Jeffrey Epstein's private jet. But he has nowhere to say in New York City. Yeah, right. He's a former prime minister of Israel.

Where could he stay? Actually, Joey, can you pull up the photo of the nicest place in New York? Ehud Barak Epstein Mansion. That was my thought. This is the biggest problem, right? You're going to say it's a four seasons? I want you guys to see the photo.

There's a photo of Ehud Barak walking into the Epstein mansion with his face covered with a scarf up to his nose. And this is pre-COVID times. He says it was cold, but. It was cold. Yeah, there it is. Look at that. Look at that.

That's him walking into Jeffrey Epstein's house. That's insane. People don't walk around like that. They don't walk around like that. That's post-2008. Sorry. Yeah, and this is post-2008. So again, we're talking about post-conviction.

Yeah, post-conviction. He's a registered sex offender. That's right. Still staying at his house. He's staying at his house. Yes. Okay. All right.

Also, 2015, I have a documented link here. It might just be cheap and not want to spend it. Epstein funded Aude Brox. Let me continue. You and I know the Jews of real estate in New York City. All right. Let me continue. Epstein funded Aude Brox defense intelligence startup to the tune of millions of dollars.

So that, in my opinion, is one of the real smoking guns. Because what did I talk about earlier with Robert Maxwell was the funding of software used by the Israeli government to do what? To spy on the United States. Now this software would be used to spy everywhere, I imagine. Yeah, of course, like Pegasus, right? All of these other things. So it's not just the United States, but it's everybody.

But here in this case, Epstein entered partnership worth millions with Ehud Barak in 2015, post-conviction registered sex offender. Let's continue. Barak is who? The former, not only prime minister, the former head of military intelligence inside of Israel. Let's continue beyond that and let's say ask about Ehud Barak and what else he did. I have this in the Wexner section. If you want, it is, let me find it here. I may not have actually put a citation. You can Google it if you would like. Epstein, who was also named by Leslie Wexner as a trustee of the Wexner Foundation, paid Ehud Barak $2.3 million to complete two consulting reports, one of which he never finished.

$2.3 million paid by the Wexner Foundation to Ehud Barak, the former prime minister of Israel, for one of which he never finished. I'm just saying, good work if you can get it, right? 2.3 million, everybody out there with struggling with your bills and your mortgage, this is insane, all right? This is insane. For purposes of what?

We don't know. Now let's return to the Wexner Foundation. Why would you be paying him? Yeah, exactly, what's going on? No, I guess I'm saying, why is that advantageous? Because it's like a jobs program for all of these former Israeli officials. It's basically a network where, and this actually fits what I was about to continue, the Wexner Foundation funds a fellowship right now at Harvard University, which by the way, of course,

also had connections with Jeffrey Epstein. What did we see? Is that the Wexner Foundation has for decades now sponsored programs where Israeli officials, including military officials and civil government officials, come to the United States to quote, learn leadership. And it's known as one of the largest networks of like highly influential Israeli government officials who come to the United States

and basically link up with one another as a very, very powerful nexus. So the Wexner Foundation is involved. And why is that incriminating that they come here and learn leadership? Well, it's not incriminating. I'm just saying that the Wexner, this is an American, he's a billionaire, he's funding APAC and all of these various Zionist causes. He's also paying weirdly $2.3 million to a former Israeli prime minister.

This is a foundation which Epstein has a lot of control over. By the way, just to be fair to them, they have claimed that Epstein had no influence over that decision. Okay. I mean, he was basically running it and he had power of attorney by Leslie Wexner. But to be fair to the Wexner Foundation, I mean, I just think it's crazy. This is insane to pay $2.3 million to aid Barack. So take me down that line of thinking.

If you pay him that money, what does that mean? Yeah, for what? It's like to what end? But take me down that line. I. If you pay him that money, what does that mean? Yeah, for what? It's like to what end? But take me down that line. I don't know. Give me a hypothetical. My hypothetical is that these are basically ways to create slush funds that perhaps he was using and others to fund other intelligence operations.

This returns me to the black money point. No. You need legitimate ways to wash money. Nonprofits are great ways. Okay, so then he's giving the money to him and then he's doing nefarious activities with it. Who knows what he's doing? I don't know what he's doing.

Is there a way of looking at it where you go, Jeffrey Epstein is working for US intelligence and in a way this is how they're bribing Israeli intelligence to be loyal to US intelligence? Right. And this is why I will never sit here and say he was solely a Mossad agent or Mossad asset, solely a US asset. I think he was a hired gun. He would work for anybody. For anybody.

And everybody would want to work with this person. Because he has access to all the militants, famous people. He has access to the world's money, to the world's rich and the famous. He can tell you the secrets. This is the gold standard of an intelligence asset in the United States of America, the capital of the global empire, New York City, the capital of global finance. Even private business people would want to be friends with Epstein because they're like, hey, what's going on with that deal?

Are they going to do a leverage buyout with this person? And Epstein would be like, maybe I can find out for you. Calls up this person. So there are a lot of reasons to want to have access to all of this, much of which is very beneficial. And why would Barack want access to, why would he want access to Epstein? Well, that is one of those things

where I actually think the relationship was the other way because it might be just a quid pro quo situation. Like you're A.U. Brock, you're the former prime minister of Israel, and Jeffrey Epstein is a guy who made his money somehow, and you need millions of dollars from him, not a legitimate venture capital firm. I think that the reason that they want sketchy money is because it was probably, in my opinion,

some sort of intelligence front and that this is exactly fulfilling his purpose. The financier uses the money, the dirty money or the untraceable money to fund future spyware, intelligence companies, this gets to the front company discourse. It also shows us that he was involved in this in 2015. It wasn't that long ago, okay? It was only 10 years ago that he was still doing this. So it shows that even post-conviction, he's continuing the behavior,

which is very suspicious in my opinion. So that's where we are with AIDBROC. Now let's return to Netanyahu because this is a fun story, actually. So Netanyahu in 2011, I have that screenshot in my tweet if you want to go ahead and put that up there. Netanyahu met with the JP Morgan exec I mentioned earlier, Jess Staley. So Jess Staley in 2011 emails Epstein and he said, I got to find the exact text. I don't have it here in the document, but I tweeted it a couple of days ago. Let me just go ahead and find it because the wording of it is genuinely remarkable where

he sends him an email and he said something like, against all odds. Yeah, here we go. In 2011, JP Morgan executive forward and emailed Epstein, against all odds, we have been granted a meeting with prime minister Netanyahu. Epstein replies, surprise, surprise. The US Virgin Island notes that he was a key conduit in brokering meetings like this. And so here's from the US Virgin Islands lawsuit where they note some of the world's dignitaries. Prince Andrew, Ayud Barak, Netanyahu, David Gergen, Pritzker, by the way, Pritzker is who? The governor of Illinois, the billionaire, the fat billionaire, Mandelson,

various other people that they- You didn't have to have fat in there. You didn't have to put fat in there. Bro, pull up a picture of him. Let's be honest. Let's just all be honest. My favorite thing about Pritzker is he said, unlike Donald Trump, I'm a real billionaire. Wow. Yeah, I mean, come on.

What are we doing? A honeymoon or something. Yeah, look at this dude. Bang, zoop. Anyway, all right, so that's one of the other names that was listed there in the US Virgin Islands. Now, my point is around this is this JP Morgan CEO is able, from the email discourse, he's like, against all odds, we were granted a meeting with Netanyahu. And Epstein replies, surprise, surprise. Why can't JP Morgan get a meeting with Netanyahu?

Exactly. And first of all, that's super weird. Why wouldn't you be able to get a meeting with Netanyahu? JP Morgan, you're one of the biggest netizens in the world. And then why would you forward that to Epstein? And Epstein's like, yeah, you're welcome for hooking it up. I think it's weird. Now none of these point perhaps to direct employee relationship. It points to a vast-

Network. ... influence and network, which was useful perhaps at times with the US and Israeli intelligence. But this looks like Epstein has influence over Israel, not the other way around. Well, it looks like the US is- But it could be bidirectional. Right, of course, of course. I'm just saying in this certain circumstance, it's like, hey, we need to meet with this guy, we can't happen.

And he's like, I'll tell him what to do. Well, yeah, but it's not really influence. It's more acting as an agent for major financial institutions to hook them up with the Israeli government. Now, look, I mean, Netanyahu, by the way, has never answered any questions about this. Eud Barak has, you know- You're saying in his Nelk Boys interview

he didn't talk about this? Is that out yet? By the way, do we know? No, I don't know. What's up with signing them? I don't understand. Like, bro, I said this. I was like, you have a newsie interview

You got to release that shit. You can't just hold a prime minister Still one of my favorite things I forget the one who was annoying with you. He's literally like be on his phone while BB is talking or something. Well, the thing about Israel Palestine, what kind of watch is that? Yeah, yeah. What a joke. Yeah. Wait, so, okay, so play devil's advocate for some of these people who would be on Epsiain's list, and you brought this up earlier, but like, theoretically, you got, if I'm a Bill Gates, and this guy has access to all of these people who would be on Epstein's list, and you brought this up earlier, but like, theoretically you got, if I'm a Bill Gates,

and this guy has access to all of these people, and I'm concerned with wealth, I guess he's already been convicted of the pedophilia, so even associated with him is crazy, but theoretically it's like, well he could connect me with that billionaire and that billionaire and that billionaire. Well that's what happened in Bill Gates' case.

So Bill Gates, if you guys remember, well it's complicated, there's a lot of reporting about it, but allegedly, you know, he would use Epstein for marriage advice and things like that. Sketches. She's too old. Yeah, that's what you know.

You know, I mean, actually, this is important on the Bill Gates story. Melinda Gates divorced him over the Epstein thing. And- Is that confirmed? That's what she says. Okay, well, that's the tiny bit. That's what she says.

No, no, no, no. I would say that too. But guys, let's stick with that. Because here's the she says. Okay, well that's the tiniest. That's what she says. No, no, no. I would say that too. But guys, let's stick with that. Of course you would say that. Because here's the thing. It had to be bad because Bill Gates was an obvious philanderer for over 20 years for their entire marriage.

So what was worse than that to get you to divorce him? There had to be something. I think there was something sketchy that she found out. Like, look, maybe she was just appalled by all the reporting, but she knew. Look, everybody at Microsoft knew that Bill Gates was having affairs. This is already documented, it's out there.

Like, in terms of his conduct with women over the last 20 years. So it can't have been as bad as, oh, he was just saying. There's an income level where it's like, come on. They're multi-billionaires. They probably are not even in the same country, right? They're both like vast estates that can just move around on private jets. So again, nobody really-

Oh my God, I did not like that. This is Melinda Gates. I did not like that I had meetings with Jeffrey Epstein. No, I made that clear to him. He was abhorrent. He was evil, personified. My heart breaks for these women. Yeah, I guess you got to say that.

Yeah, but it's one of those things where there might be something. How many feel that way? Do we know the first time? What's the gap between the divorce and the first time this guy meets Epps? Because I think there's like 12 years where Melinda could have left. Yeah, do you not like that it got out? Well, that's part of it. I mean, if you don't like that, I got out. Okay, I do not know. I don't know. she could have left earlier if she was so bothered by it. I think what Alex is saying, maybe she didn't know. Yeah, no, I think she didn't know. I think she didn't know. Because all of this stuff is about his kid,

and I think actually she may know even more than we all do about what was going on in some of those rooms. Wait, why? Well, maybe it's like she asked him to come clean and he came clean, or maybe there's some stuff in court documents and lawsuits and others that have been alleged against him that again could have been It was like billions if I mean we can look at me it's gonna be billions no matter what so it's

What was it 40 billion something like that? Maybe 50 And control the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Oh, they agree to continue. She knew those two things together Alright twelve point five billion grand for her final and proper work agree to continue those two things together. There's something going on. That's all I'm saying. All right. All right. 12.5 billion grant for her final nonprofit work. Can you hit show more? Maybe I'm thinking. Mellie Mel.

Oh, they have no pre-nup. I mean, yeah. Division of large. Oh, so she's gonna give it no matter what. Right, yeah. She was gonna give it no matter what. So let's be honest. Yeah, okay.

Right, so anyway, my thing is like, why now? I just think, again, she knew about his cheating. Like it had to be worse than that. I don't really know what it was. Or just public. Or public, it's possible. But Bill Gates met with Epstein because he was trying to win a Nobel Peace Prize.

Bill Gates wanted the Nobel Peace Prize for the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Epstein's like, oh, I can make that happen. And why? That's the question. Why, even after being a registered sex offender? Andrew, you and I are in a weird position. That's why Trump is cool with him.

He just wanted to be pissed. I'm sure all of us as public people, we get invited to dinners like all the time, right? And I very rarely go, because it's like annoying. But I used to go. But like, what I always do is just a cursory Google search. And if somebody invited me to dinner, and was a registered sex offender,

which one of the very first things is gonna pop up, I'm not going. But George Sophanopoulos went, Bill Gates went, Reid Hoffman. Why do you think they went? Peter's, I don't know. Yeah, how do you have time? I barely hang out with my real friends.

Right, exactly. It's like, what is going on here? And not only you guys are doing dinners or whatever, you're all like wiring money to each other. The Bill and Melinda Gates, or like the Nobel Peace Prize. And there's all kinds of people we don't even know about because there has not been yet a release of the files. But isn't it like the rich people stuff that you were saying before? It's like, well, he's going over there. I guess it's cool if we all go. Yeah, but still, doesn't the sex offender thing

register at any point? Like at what point? No, of course, for us. At what point does it register to be like, oh, we're not doing this? I can understand not doing this right now. To be honest with you, I probably wouldn't Google. But once somebody's convicted, fuck that. No, no, no. Your staff is going to Google.

Yeah, right, exactly. Like all these meetings are going through your staff. And I'm not worth enough to have a staff. If I was, they would, yeah, hey Google anybody else. Bro, these assistants, you're not getting in the fucking door. Think about how many people were terrified of just coming on a podcast.

Yeah, yeah. Right? I'm most terrified to come on a podcast. Right, you have some of the most powerful people in the world that are going to meet up with a convicted pedophile. Right. Yeah, you know what's going on.

Yeah, you know. But you said in the 90s, it was already Common knowledge. I like some young. Yeah Difference me a registered sex if I'm gonna be a possibility before that they all rationalize it I'm sure the staff says yeah, look he was given a such a light sentence because it was kind of bullshit Overblown and you're about to get two2 billion in a peace prize at your foundation. Right. Yeah. And then you go, all right, for $2 billion, I can have a closed-door meeting with the

guy. This is the weirdest thing. It's the reputation laundering. Again, we're talking about Bill Gates. We're talking about MIT. We're talking about the Ivy League universities. We're talking about some of the world's most professional and smartest scientists who are going over to his house for dinner, who are accepting grants for his work at the MIT lab.

All of this is post-conviction. Guys, you don't just give money to MIT. They have enough money, they don't just take it from anyone. They do extensive background research to make sure that you can put your name on something and they know what's happening. I have a friend of mine who has a real estate fund or whatever, and he got investment

from these institutional places like MIT and the amount of background research. The due diligence must be insane. It's insane. It's not, and he often criticizes some of the developers who just like they raise money in the community, and he's like, yeah, that's bullshit because if you lose their money, it's no big deal, there's nobody to answer to. When you get money from an institution like the UC fund, like the UC- Pension fund or whatever.

Pension fund, exactly like the amount of due diligence, the SEC is on your phone. That should be. You are getting looked at constantly. So it's not like that's not gonna come up. It does come up and they look the other way, which is peculiar. It's weird, okay?

Last thing, I actually didn't put this in my notes, and this really, I just, my goal here is to just emphasize all the connections and what could possibly still yet to be released. So please Google the New York financial services report on Epstein, which regards Deutsche Bank. Now, this report, I read it in 2020, it's one of the craziest things I ever read because it is a description of financial behavior at this bank that any normal individual would never get away with, not only looking the other way, holding high level meetings, being like,

guys, we're not in compliance right now. They're like, this is violating banking rules. He is taking out millions of dollars in cash, $9,900 at a time. They're not reporting it to the feds, which they're supposed to. He's wiring money to Eastern European women and obvious sex trafficking wing post-conviction,

which by the way, post-conviction, they weren't even really supposed to be doing business with them for the reputation of the bank, but they cite in the Deutsche Bank settlement with the New York Financial Services internal emails where they're like, hey, he's really good for business because he connects us with a whole lot of people. These are out and open.

Right, and inside, you literally watch as lower level compliance people who don't know what's up flag to their bosses and they're like, guys, what are we doing here? Like, this is violating bank rules and they're like, hey, shh, like stop, right? I mean, I'm talking all the way up to the highest level of the bank

where internal conversations are had in multiple times. This rep violates multiple bank policies. It violates the law in this case, New York state law about the way that you're supposed to conduct yourself as a financial institution, looking the other ways, all these insane wire transfers for millions and millions of dollars. So to me, that's like my final thing here. These are the files I want. I want the actual banking records. I want the LLC formation documents. Follows of money.

I want the trust. Yeah, from The Wire, my favorite quote from Lester Freeman, if you start to follow the money, you don't know where the fuck it's going to take you. And that's really what the whole story is about. And yes, I understand the salacious details and I spent a lot of time on it here, you know, the pedophilia investigation and all that but it's secondary to the level of influence that he had and to the extent that it mattered it mattered because he was so important in some respect that everyone was either able to look the other way or enable it or empower it and to make it happen in such a systematic way that involves all the world's most powerful elite.

So that's my final thing, is release the Epstein files that actually matter and show us who he was. It's not just about intelligence, it's about the financial network. And the reason I think that it's being covered up here is because it does implicate everybody. I think it implicates multiple governments, specifically the Israeli government. I think it also implicates the United States government. I think it's very uncomfortable for the world's richest and most powerful elite.

It shows, and you know, the Bush administration, it shows the Trump administration, it shows the Biden administration, you said, on some of these. You know, some of the most powerful and influential people in the whole world. It's not necessary that they're on tape, but perhaps they're financially entangled.

Perhaps the tapes were used, you know, at a time. And that's, I think, the most disappointing thing about this. So my goal here was to give people the language they can use as to why, it validates your feelings as to why something is being covered up. And there's a reason they don't talk about this. They call you a conspiracy theorist. These are all facts, everything that I've laid out.

Can I say one thing? That was awesome. Thank you very much. Yeah. I was fucking fine. I don't know what the non-sexual version of being turned on is, but that was awesome. They did, they did. Yeah, that's interesting. It's almost like the blackmail ring,

the sexual blackmail ring for the global elites is the conspiracy. Simply following the money outside of the child sex trafficking might be what incriminates the most people. Oh, it absolutely will. It's almost like it benefits them for there to be focus on the child sex right

because they might not be tied to it. Or to talk in stupid terms of like client list and it's like guys, it's not. They're all on the island, they're all on the island fucking the girls. It's like as long as the focus is on that, it will almost be a letdown to find out, oh actually they didn't have sex with any girls, but he was giving the, it brought $2.3 million or whatever. And then the people go, ah, it's only $2.3 million. What's the big deal? We thought they were having sex.

It's actually like to their benefit for the public to believe this blackmail, the sexual blackmail ring, and then be quote unquote let down by, we should hope that there are less people having sex with children by the way. We all want that to not happen. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't continue to shine light on what's going on over here and understanding his influence and why he was able to operate with impunity despite being a registered sex offender. That's the thing that seems so peculiar and lends itself to conspiracy.

Why was he able to behave in this manner? Why was he able to, why were the higher ups at his bank able to thwart their responsibility to the SEC, to their investors? In two weeks, if I withdraw $9,900 in two weeks, the federal government's knocking on my door. Like, JP Morgan is gonna flag my account. And we're done.

I thought it has to be over 10 grand for them to do it. No, but if you, it's 9,900, they have a mandatory reporting, but if they have, they have things in the bank to make sure that you're not, if it looks suspicious to do 9,900. Two weeks in, they're like, all right, he's trying to violate,

trying to make sure that he doesn't come under reporting, we're going to the feds. We're notifying the IRS. The IRS, by the way, again, has all of this documentation. Yeah, the banks are not so stupid to be like, oh, it wasn't 10,000, 9,900. Right, yeah. They're not dumb. Right, exactly. They have software. They're only Palantir. That's what they use Palantir for, to automatically flag all of these suspicious activities. My point is only that all of this exists, and you, as Americans, you guys need the language to be able to know

what to ask for. I was telling Mark earlier, one of the reasons why it took so long to get Cointel Pro and MK Ultra is that it took people breaking into a warehouse to learn about the specific code words so that they could then FOIA and ask to investigate. Oh wow. Without knowing what to ask for,

you don't know what to ask for. It's an unknown unknown, in the words of Donald Rumsfeld. It's one of those things where you can't even begin to go down the rabbit hole if you don't even know where to start. This is interesting. Yeah. And this is why, and by the way, again, there are very, very powerful people right now today who are trying to make sure you don't look at this.

You have the Prime Minister of Israel, the Foreign Prime Minister of Israel, Neftali Bennett. He never worked for Mossad. There's an entire influencer set right now, Mark Levin, now it includes the President of the United States, all of these kind of Zionist influencers who are calling you an anti-Semite because they say that there's no evidence. And they define the terms to be like, he worked for Mossad.

I'm not saying that he directly was an employee for Mossad. He was run from the very beginning. I'm saying that he has shows all of the hallmarks, to use an infamous phrase, of being some sort of an asset, working with these various intelligence agencies. And I think that that stuff is so dirty that they just don't want to get into it.

And this is where Trump, I mean, we have to be honest. We have to call it out. You ran on this is where Trump, I mean, we have to be honest. We have to call it out. Bro. You ran on this. I have the evidence here that we can go through of like what they said in 2023 and what they say today. Plus the seven congressmen that voted against Ro Khanna's amendment.

I know. Like that's as blatant as you. All right guys, let's take a break for a second. Listen, it's summer. Grill season is upon us. And if you're the type of guy who takes pride in a perfectly seared steak, like a real man, it's time to stop messing around with flimsy kitchen gear. That's why you need Hexclad. The cookware that's serious about giving you the perfect sear. Not only do

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the promises that they say they will make. I didn't realize that now I know better that you're not, you're just supposed to let them do whatever the fuck they want despite them promising some things. As long as they're consistent. Yeah, you just have to be consistent. But yeah, to that note, I've thought about this a lot. I actually think that when the person you voted for is in power, that's when you have to be the loudest.

You're exactly right. Thank you for saying that. Because that's the only opportunity for you to get the things that they promised enacted. Yes. When someone that you did not vote for is in power, there's nothing you can do because they're not going to do the things you asked for anyway. So you should be stomping the pavement. You should be clamoring. And when they're not doing the things you should be going, Hey, this is not what I voted for.

This is the thing you want. This is the thing. These are against everything that you said, not everything. Otherwise you're in a cult. You're in a cult because everybody's like trust the plan. No, I actually don't trust the plan. Like during the Iran thing, I hate that 40 chest shit. I hate the trust the process. How about I trust what the fuck you said you were going to do and how about you do it? Thank you. I mean, again, this is important. Everybody is always like, oh, there's a split in the MAGA base. I actually think MAGA by and large will always kind of support Trump, but I'm going to define the terms narrowly. And this is kind of where we're all speaking to. The people we're speaking to are not like

MAGA, maybe some of them. A lot of them are disaffected. They're men. They're people who are tangentially interested in politics. And the reason why the Epstein story was important to them is it confirmed basically the way that they thought about the international elite. And they saw Trump and Cash Patel and Dan Bongino as those who would work to like usurp that power. A conduit to justice. Exactly. And for them to watch that betrayal now that's happening is one that only confirms the way that the system basically works.

And it causes very uncomfortable questions here. I was saying this yesterday, but it's like, if I wanted to vote for somebody that was going to keep the Epstein files under wrap, that was going to extend the foreign roads and there was wars that was going to increase the budget, I would have voted for Kamala. Yeah, that's right. And by the way, probably would have done it more competently. I'll say it.

Wait, wait. I'll just say it. Way more. It would have been very easy. Just sweep it under the rug. Then we wouldn't have had to live through this last six months of whatever bullshit is happening in the current day. I mean, yeah, look, literally today there is, Joey, you want to go and pull this up? You can go on my Twitter feed.

Donald Trump is sending $10 billion of new offensive weapons to Ukraine. Not only that, by the way, it actually came out from the Financial Times that he reportedly told Zelensky the Ukrainians leaked to this part of the phone call. Who knows if they're telling the truth, but the Trump administration has not denied it, is Donald Trump asked Zelensky if Ukraine could hit Moscow and actually asked them, hey, Zelensky, Vladimir, he said, do you have what you need to be able to hit Moscow, to hit St. Petersburg? These are the World War III fears that I, you guys know the last time I hear we were

spending an hour on Ukraine, you can disagree with me if you'd like. He said he wasn't going to do that. So here's the thing, and this is where I have like a little bit, I give him a little bit of wiggle room and maybe it was just hubris. I think Trump actually thought that he was going to walk in. I think Trump actually thought that the only reason there were wars is because of lobbyists in government basically going, hey, we need to sell more military weapons, so let's have some wars around.

So he's like, once I get in, I'll just call it Vlad, and I'll be like, yo, Vlad. He was already president once, man. He knew that. So he knows the game. Okay, fair enough, and that's very fair. And then that could be my naivete, and I'll be held accountable for that.

And I guess I'm like hoping best case scenario, because at the end of the day, I don't care what fucking side you're on, you don't want to see hundreds of thousands of people get murdered for profit. You do not want to see hundreds of thousands of people get murdered. Yeah, that's right. For profit. You do not want to see hundreds of thousands of people get murdered for profit. You can say, I told you so, you can do all this other shit,

but at the end of the day, you just have to ask yourself, do you want to see hundreds of thousands of human beings get killed for profit? And millions, actually, now. Millions, okay. Millions. I personally don't. Yeah, I don't have... I personally don't. So what I'm going to do is, if there's somebody that says,

I aim to stop the foreign wars, and there's another person that says, well, we gotta do what's right to keep on fighting. All I hear is less people dead, more people dead. If you can sleep at night voting for the person that says more people dead over the person that says less people dead, that's fine. I can't.

That's not for me. Me, same. That's not for me. I see what the fuck Gaza looks like, and I'm like, I want that to stop. I see what the fuck Gaza looks like and I'm like, I want that to stop. I see what the fuck is happening in Ukraine and Russia and I want that to stop. So I don't feel, oh you regret whatever, I don't regret a fucking second for voting for the guy who said that less people are going to die.

Also all the things about he lied, he's a liar. I don't know man, he promised he would overturn Roe vs Wade the first time and... So I thought he could get shit done. January 6th protesters, protesters? He was like I'll pardon all them and he did? Yeah, he did, yeah. It's just important also to say what promises are being kept, what are not. Alright, so immigration, I actually say he's kept a lot of his promises. Unfortunately. this later, whenever we record for my show. But my point around here is let's look specifically. Epstein. The Epstein memo is released when the day before Benjamin Netanyahu visits the United States of America for the third time in six months for his residence in the United States. We have Benjamin Netanyahu who, by Trump's own account, attacked Iran by the US green

line where US diplomacy was used as a ruse in order for the Israelis to Conduct a military operation. We have United States military assets that were used to bomb Iran Just I mean gotta be one of them like again Like you said you had a presidential campaign where yes Trump would always say we cannot let Iran have a nuclear bomb And I know this and maybe I was too close to it. I knew many of the people involved in the actual decision making. And I know that they have ridiculed people who have quote, wanted to bomb Iran for years. So then to watch that all just flip around and now President Trump is the greatest deal

maker and strength artist of all time. When you would have ridiculed this level of logic long before, and we have all of this reporting that, eh, actually, nuclear. A lot of mental gymnastics. It's like, actually, the nuclear program really wasn't destroyed, and the reason that you could look at that is that the Israelis are leaking it, right?

Joe, if you wanna pull that up, Israel intelligence says Iran nuclear facility not destroyed, this is from the New York Times a couple of days ago. Oh my God. And so look, like. So now there's a reason to continue. Now we got to continue. Right? And it's like, oh, but I was told that the 12 day war was the only time it was ever gonna happen. Well, you guys, do you guys want to do some history? All right. So in 1981,

Israel took out the Iraq, Iraqi nuclear reactor. They bombed it and they said, we have solved the Iraqi nuclear program question for all time. What did we end up invading Iraq for? WMDs. Mark, for WMDs, right? And what actually happened as a result of that is that the nuclear program was driven underground and Saddam actually was more convinced than ever that he needed to acquire nuclear weapons to the point where he almost tried to create an image where he was having nukes, which caused the United States to invade him in 2003.

In 2007, Israel did what? It struck the Syrian reactor and the nuclear program. And the decision point beyond that was, listen, it's just about the nukes. It's not about regime change. Does anyone want to tell me what happened to the Syrian regime? It was replaced by whom? Al-Qaeda, on behalf of whom? Israel, all right?

Israel literally supported the Syrian Jihadist government and ironically today they're actually bombing them because now the Al-Qaeda government is acting like Al-Qaeda and persecuting religious Druze minorities in the country. And by the way, their justification, the Israelis for bombing them, is that Syria has moved across the new border that Israel has declared for itself by seizing parts of Syria. Now we are supporting Ukraine for what? Because Russia invaded them. What is a seizure of territory as a result of a regime change operation in Syria? What is, is that a violation of norms? May I say? Rules for me and not for me. Of the rules-based international order and the way that a civilized nation

would conduct itself, a Western nation? I think the concern here is really like if you are an autonomous nation, you've got to handle your candle. So if you want to do all this stuff in the Middle East, that's on you. Yeah, but you bear the consequences. And you pay for it. It seems like we bear the consequences. I think that's an important fracture right here.

If it was like, all right, we're going to go about it alone and this is what we think is the best for our safety. And it's like, okay, we'll go do that. The problem is every time they're about to go about it alone, they say, we'll go about it alone. I think we get a phone call a few hours later and it seems like we go back it up. And you can really do whatever you want in the world

with impunity if America has your back no matter what. And I think that's the kind of imbalance of power right there. And it definitely feels like there's an imbalance in terms of the relationship in terms of what we're offering each other. And now we're in a circumstance where like the war against Hamas has gone two years and you look at them and Americans are starting to go like, what the hell, it's really kind of destroyed. I feel like you did it.

Not kind of, like it's destroyed. Yeah, it's destroyed. Yes, it's destroyed. And then there's only a few that I think Americans are starting to be like, okay, so we're paying for this. I can't buy an apartment. I can't buy a house. I got $300,000 worth of school loans,

but we're still selling billions of dollars over here. And you can't begrudge Americans for starting to feel like there's an imbalance in this relationship. Not even begrudge. I mean, honestly, America, like, it's been this way for years. We just gotta wake up now. But I think the important thing to understand is

it's not saying that an independent country can't go do what it needs for its salvation. You just have to bear the consequences for those actions. And I think Americans are starting to feel like we bear the consequences, at least financially right now. You're absolutely right. And if we end up in some sort of ground invasion in Iran, we will bear the consequences. There's no question.

What a nation of what, I forget the population of this world. They're going to be able to invade a country of 90 million. By the way, yes, I do know the population of Iran. Thank you, Tucker Carlson. But you know, look, let's really dwell on this. Like yes, what's happening in Gaza is being funded by the United States of America. And you know, there's a large constituency here in America that says that's necessary for Israel to take out terrorism, whatever the hell that means.

Apparently requires killing at the minimum of like 17,000 children. I personally don't think civilized Western nations conduct themselves in that manner. And everyone's like, well, what would you do? I was like, America has the template, guys. Look, I will not defend the US invasion of Iraq. Do you know how many thousands of American service members died and were wounded in missions to protect Iraqi civilians?

Ground. That was on the ground. Outs on the ground. Outs on the ground where the American service members are maimed and were blown up to protect Iraqi civilians from an intra-civil war. That is how you conduct a counter-terrorism operation. I think the point that you're making is really important, right?

Is that in an effort I imagine to save Israeli lives, which I do empathize with because I want to save American lives, what they're doing is conducting war that would save the most Israeli lives but unfortunately kills the most American lives. What they're doing is conducting war that would save the most Israeli lives, but unfortunately kills the most Palestinian lives. Yeah, that's right. And innocent Palestinians. And what you're making the argument is in Iraq, instead of us doing that, which we could have absolutely just flattened the entire thing. It would be easy. We had the greatest bomb. Who do you think sells all these bombs to

Israel? Where's it coming from? Of course. But we made a decision to do that Boots on the Ground, which cost American lives, which was deeply regrettable. I don't want a single American life. Me either. But I think that is where we can put ourselves in a position of criticism for the way the war is being waged because we have been in that circumstance.

Twice. And I think that's a one piece that- It's a really good argument. That is what war is. You have to sacrifice from both sides. There's two types of war. So this is the thing. They said it's to get rid of Hamas.

And in that way, we are not at war with the Palestinian people, we are at war with Hamas. So how would you conduct that war? We have an entire 20 years of experience, the United States military, where what we do is we want to separate the terrorists from the civilian population. So we make sure that the civilians are protected,

soldiers are put in harm's way in order to separate those two and to be able to kill them. It requires a shitload of city combat. It's brutal, it's very difficult, it's bloody. Ask the Navy SEALs, ask the Marines, all the people who had to participate. But it was semi-successful, at least in 2009, in the surge. It reduced the amount of civilian casualties

as a result of the Iraqi Civil War. But the other way to fight is when you're at war with the population and you want complete and total destruction. That's when you fight like the United States on Japan in 1945. And what's more analogous to what we're happening? So we can look at the intention.

All I'm saying is Akash, it's the intention and the words matter. And the intention is obvious that they are actually at war with the population themselves, right? Not just Hamas, the terrorist group. Not just Hamas, the terrorist group. Yes, which is very interesting. And I think that's a very important point

for people to digest. And I said- Just to look at the conduct. That's the piece that I agree with you that Americans feel like we're bearing the brunt and all that. But also, when we invade, we are usually told, or when we aid a country in war, we are always told we are on the moral high ground.

Yeah, that's right. With Ukraine, Russia is invading Ukraine, this country that cannot defend itself. That's why we have to send aid. Tiny little Ukraine. Now we're looking and we're seeing who we're supporting. And we don't have a moral high ground. They don't have a moral high ground and yet we keep supporting them. So I agree with you that we feel like why are we bearing the brunt of this and we don't

have jobs, but also morally we don't even have a high ground. So why are we supporting? We wouldn't say Hamas has a high ground either. The way Israel is flattening Gaza, we don't have a moral high ground with the way they aren't doing it. If there were boots on the ground and they're losing civilians, okay, maybe and Hamas is doing X, Y, Z. This is why as America, I actually think we should not talk about moral high ground

I know this Let's look at the history of the US moral and interventions Serbia the disaster. Oh my gosh, oh disaster 2003 Goes without saying yeah, I mean I can go on forever like Afghanistan I do it with the moral high ground. I think perception we are sold yeah I agree with the Molliger and now we're just seeing talking about the story yeah I actually that's why I when I argue with liberals I always tell them I go like guys I don't think you're doing anybody any good here using words like genocide or and it's not because I

don't disagree with you per se it's just that when you couch thing for example when and I talked about this last time the debate becomes about the definition humanitarianism and genocide. And it's like, no, we're not talking about that. We're talking about America's national interest. Is this good for us or not? Mark and I were talking about that where it's just like, now there's this debate on whether or not it's genocide.

Right. Whatever right below genocide is, it's really bad too. Yeah, that's right. Mass murder. And Mark is like, it's like someone says like, I'm not a pedophile. I just like 16 year olds. Yeah, that's right. It's like, can't you feel bad? Isn't there a term for that? It's like a Yeah. Mass murder. Yeah. And Mark is like, it's like someone says like, I'm not a pedophile. I just like 16 year olds. Yeah, that's right.

It's like, can't you feel bad? Isn't there a term for that? It's like a gileophile. Yeah, it's a pedophile. Yeah, I agree. There's one term. It's just pedophile. Yeah, exactly.

But my point beyond that is like, look, let's define things in terms of America's national interests. What good are we getting from this? We're bombing Iran. We had a terror. Do you guys remember the terror alerts in the mid 2000s? Yeah. Do you guys remember that? Whenever the Iran thing happened, they literally sent out a terror alert across the whole country and they warned Americans living abroad to expect retaliatory attacks. That's America, our country. We are

being felt the pain here. Right? But you're just a Qatari asset. Yeah, of course. But you know what's funny? The Qatari government hates me because I lived in Qatar. I went to high school there and I hated it so much that I've talked for years about the mistreatment of the Indian slave laborers. Disclosure, disclosure, disclosure, I've invested disclosure. I just say it because it's about being some form of foreign asset or whatever. Why can't we all just be people talking in our own national interests? And I think the reason that they throw out anti-Semite and race, whatever,

on all of this is specifically to shut down this conversation. And the best thing that's ever happened is that we're all here and we can just talk honestly. It's really unfortunate because I think that it's almost like a permission slip for anti-Semitism in a way. Oh, you're exactly. Because there are a lot of real fucking- It's increased real anti-Semitism. Yeah, but it's not even whether it's increased or not. There are a lot of real fucking- It's increased real antisemitism. Yeah, but it's not even whether it's increased or not, there are a lot of real antisemites out there.

Yeah, that's true. And then when you throw the term around, when you're criticizing a sovereign nation, it gets lumped in with the people who actually do hate people because of their religion and ethnicity. And that's the problem I have. I always say this other times, like everybody thinks I'm Jewish,

so I get all the antisemitism. It exists. Yeah. Like you guys might not hear it. I get it. I see it. So it's like you can't just throw that term around so flippantly because then nobody will take it. It's a boy who cried wolf. Nobody will take it seriously when it actually does happen. And it does happen. And it is a real fucking problem. And I'm very concerned about like Jews in America who are dealing with it and they're concerned. So it's, we gotta be very specific. Like the green black guys throwing it around.

He's calling the PodC of America guys anti-Semitism. Exactly. Yeah. It's crazy guys. I think they also dismissed Elon's salute as well. I think the ADL was like, no, it was an assumption. Yeah, they did. Yeah, that's right.

They actually did. The ADL, which, you know, look, I mean, we could argue about that all day long, but the ADL is basically an arm for Israel. And this gets to the problem that I have with this whole like anti-Semitism industrial complex is they've conflated criticism of this foreign government with genuine anti-Semitism, which is the worst thing that you could possibly do for anti-Semitism itself because the term loses all meaning. Look at Zoran, if we want to talk about, I mean, you know, they blasted this guy, anti-Semite.

We're in the most Jewish city, what, in the world, except for Tel Aviv. Second most, yeah. Right, and he just won the Democratic primary and actually a lot of Jewish votes. By a lot. That should tell you something, guys. That should show that these attacks don't work. But the thing is, unfortunately, in Washington, they still work.

It's the worst possible thing that you could be called. Because of the way, look, it's ideology and it's money, and they're mutually reinforcing. So for example, I, and I talked about this on Tucker, you were talking, look, it's ideology and it's money and they're mutually reinforcing. So for example, I, and I talked about this on Tucker, you were talking to me about it. I don't get invited to all the things I used to get invited to. And that sounds really silly, but that's the currency of the town. It's fine. I just don't care.

I get to come here, right? They're always asking me to connect with you. They're like, hey man, I think Congressman So-and-so should go on Andrew Schultz. I'm like, I guarantee you he doesn't give a fuck. So I'm not, I guarantee you he doesn't give a fuck. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm not giving you his phone number. That's what I'm telling you. But that's my point though, right?

It's like, there's a nice trade-off for me and I've chosen this, but my point is with them, the currency of the town is one that is entirely funded by APAC or pro-Zionist interests. And the thing is, the way it's so nefarious is it bleeds into everything. It's in people who are working at like a tax foundation to lobby for low taxes are being funded by people who are also very pro-Israel. So if employees there were to like, let's say make an Instagram post about Palestine,

even though it has nothing to do with taxes, they would still be fired. They would be drummed out of the organization. And guys, these people don't make a ton of money, like the lower level up and comers, like when I was in my early 20s, we actually made zero money. So it's not worth a risk for them. Of course, listen, you gotta eat.

You want to advance, you want to be connected to get a fellowship to do whatever. You have to fall in line, even if you don't even work on Israel or Palestine, even if it's just a tangential thing, and you're like, eh, it's kinda fucked up. This is what happened in Hollywood, not specifically with Israel and Palestine.

I actually don't think at all with that. I think more with identity politics. Oh, absolutely, you're exactly right. And I think that people were just really scared that if they had a serious opinion about anything, that they would be like- You're done. Thrown out, they would be like thrown out. They'd be, you know, and I think now that's we're moving away from that.

Well, I think that's why what you do is so courageous, man. I'm like somebody who's got to actually like intertwined with like, I mean, you can say it better than me, but everything I've read, like the studio system has got to be one of the biggest bottlenecks of pop culture in the world. Like it's literally run by a couple of agencies and these movie distributors, and you're fucked if they post them off. They still think he's Jewish, he's good.

But this is why it's always annoying when people say, oh, you're just doing this thing for Trump or Griff, and it's like, you don't realize how the cost. Yeah, the real Griff is the other way. Yeah, it's, whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm in entertainment. I'm not in politics.

I'm not in a media company. I'm in entertainment. So like the idea of even having Trump on the pod, and obviously we asked to have Kamala and everybody else and none of them came, but like that costs us. Oh yeah. There's not a financial gain. Doing a hostage video for Kamala, that's a, you're a Grifter. That's Grifting.

As I get it. A 1000%. I get it. I know. a hostage video for comma, that's you're a grifter. That's grifting. That's a 1,000%. I get it. Doing those things for comma, you would absolutely, and I think that people don't realize that because I think they assume, you know, politics is better than anybody, it's good versus evil. So as long as you're on the side of good,

they don't see it as grift. Oh yeah. So there's all these people that are grifting off Trump, absolutely happens. And then there's people grifting against Trump. The Never Trump thing is a grift as well. Look it up, but also look up the pedophilia stuff with the Lincoln Project.

I'm just throwing that out there. People wanna look into that. Now I wanna look into it. But I guess what I'm saying is the idea that in order to grift, you have to be financially satisfied, I imagine, by that thing. And in the entertainment industry, the industry that we exist in

You're putting yourself in Harms way dude, but do like worse. It's it so I don't even Like for example, like just I mean I had flat out the Netflix people said and who fucking knows but like, you know I'm up for Consideration or whatever for an Emmy for life and I just had people tell me straight up They're like listen dude, like you had Trump on the pod like there's no way that they're gonna give you an animal It is the best our comedy that was put out. It should win. It just is you know I mean like no disrespect anybody's there, but there's not as good

Yeah, right And it's but so and if you want to judge it by any metric you want to judge it by views it has more views If you want to judge it by like impact you were just like in my personal opinion obviously But like that's the cost of it So I think that's the frustrating thing I would imagine for all of us when we're like, no, no, we're actually curious about talking to these people and having these conversations,

and we understand the cost of doing it, and we're willing to take on that cost. There is no risk when you're the anti-Trump grift, and you just do all these things, you virtue signal, you say I told you so to us for criticizing Trump, it's like if you actually cared, you'd be worried about the midterms, you'd be worried about the elections,

and you would see people that were disillusioned by Trump not living up to his promises, if you actually cared and you'd be like, hey, here's an opportunity to bring people into a coalition and in a democracy, gain more votes and potentially win. Yeah, but you're presuming that they care about this. That's my point.

They don't care about it. They want clicks and views. They're the exact thing that they're accusing us, but they are so caught up in their own hubris that they don't realize it. And you sit back here and I watch it and I kind of just laugh at it, but people take it serious.

They look at these people and I think it just makes them feel good in the moment. And they can't disassociate that to like, what might be better for the country. Yeah, absolutely. And look, I mean, something I've always appreciated about this pod is like, we just talk, right? And we talk to anybody.

And I've known you long enough to know when you were a Bernie guy, right? And I always tell people that. Still a Bernie guy. Yeah, I know that. That's why people were so shocked to see you come around. And I was like, guys, you just don't know Andrew, right? But it's one of those things where,

because I've been able to get to know all of you and the whole comedy scene or whatever, when people ask about podcast bros and MAGA, I actually think it's you're very representative of the audience in your turn against people who it seems were like fighting for the system and to the extent that there was an appeal of Trump. And that's why it explains for somebody who could vote for Trump and also be like, yeah, Mom, Donnie seems America first to me. And it's because the horseshoe there- I said New York first, by the way.

Sorry, New York first. But okay, but the point is- That's been conflated in news a lot. The horseshoe there is about talking about the country or the city that we're living in as opposed to these more establishment interests that you were elected to fight against in Trump's case. But that's the appeal. And somebody was like, oh, you speak to MAGA, right? And I was like, no, I actually don't.

I was like, to the extent I have any authority, it's with 18 to 35 year olds who are interested in politics, the vast majority of whom are pretty bipartisan, a lot voted for Trump. Yeah, but like those people are actually very independent. They do go along with trends and other things and the most important thing is they both think for themselves Yeah, they're not in the cult and they are not in a cult

Everybody's kept not everybody there's a there are very loud people that are captured by the cults Yes, and the cults are rewarded online with the algorithms. Yes, of course There's the views and there's the clicks and there's the pats on the back and there's the yes queens in the comments But in reality, it's not representative actual people So when the actual people see people having common sense conversations, which I hope that we have on this podcast You know, we'd get me today right now. We had the pod save guys on the pod. Nice. Do you mean? Yeah I'm like what's so interesting is like Their criticism was the exact same thing that I was saying. They immediately were like, this reaction that I told you so is like typical fucking liberal dumb

shit where it's just like, we have an opportunity to use this frustration to win, but these people don't care about winning. So they're acknowledging the grift as well. And these are the most liberal guys you can imagine. Well, you know why that they say that? Because they actually won an election. They know how to win a fucking election. They worked with Barack Obama. Barack Obama, I mean, do you guys remember the state of Ohio? He won that state. He won Indiana.

That's insane. And MAGA does it so well, bringing people in. Like, you see people go to the protests, like where they pretend to fake protest on the other side. So like, liberals will go to the MAGA side, and then all the MAGA people are like, yeah, come over. Yeah, they're like, hey, come on in, Yeah, but my point actually is the way that that was sold But now that people like you are beginning to speak out people like me and others

Oh, it's like you are fake or you know, you're not trusting the plan enough and it's like I would argue that the least patriotic Thing you could do is actually trust the government I would actually argue also in the case of when you support a political movement is that the least impactful thing you could do is trust the plan. And because the people who don't trust the plan, they get shit done. You think Israel trusted the plan? No. When we were trying to do diplomacy, they're like, no, we're fucking bombing Iran. Okay. And you're coming in with us. Yeah, exactly. They always win. And that's the thing. And I promise you, I don't promise you, but I would imagine in the next week or two, we will get some disclosure about the Epstein files that we were not going to get.

And the reason we got that is because there are people speaking out. There's a reason why the White House responded to us. The people are speaking out, it's not just us, but it's a lot of people speaking out about our frustrations. And whether you like this or not the White House the current administration is very Transactional if they feel that people are becoming disillusioned they acknowledge it immediately So if you do not voice these things you do not get what the fuck you want get it It's it's like and what do you actually at the end of day? What do you want? Do you want to feel good in the moment?

Do you want to get your little clicks and views make your little face-to-camera videos? Or do you want to actually have some form of justice for a thousand girls that were victimized? According to the government, according to our US Attorney General, a thousand that were victimized. Which, what do you actually want? Because I'm glad you feel good with your pass on the back. To me, it'd be pretty good to know if a thousand girls gets a little bit of justice.

That would make me feel pretty good. Yeah, it should. So before we leave, can I ask what is Trump's game with the Epstein files? Why would he, while he's president get, you know, Epstein is arrested, killed, slash dies, and then runs on releasing the files, does the fake sort of kangaroo release, and then now says that he was not working with any other conspirators? There's only two possible theories, which I was not that open to this one, which was that Trump is implicated in until the more recent statements.

Why are my boys and gals paying attention to all this? You guys all need to move on. Or on camera where he's like, are you really asking him about Jeffrey Epstein? By the way, the day after he put out that truth social, he was tweeting about revoking Rosie O'Donnell's citizenship. I mean, it's funny, but he's like, you guys are focused on Epstein when there's all this after he put out that truth social he was tweeting about revoking Rosie O'Donnell's citizenship. I mean it's funny but he's like you guys are focused on Epstein when there's all this other stuff happening it's like bro you're literally tweeting about Rosie O'Donnell's getting denaturalized as a citizen but that's one theory is that look I mean I read you guys the quote

he likes him young he said that in 2002. He said it. So we knew something. We're six months in. How do you feel? What's the job that Trump is in? Oh no, sorry, I need to give the second. That was the first theory, which I did not give credence to. Also Tucker made a good point.

He's like, wouldn't have the Biden administration released it? I was like, well, I thought that they would have, but listen, what if they want to protect Bill Clinton? Or you know all this other stuff. You can't release one. Right. And you have to release all.

Because what would the Biden administration do? They've released one person, and then nobody else. That would make a lot of sense. And then we'd be like, okay, according to Trump, they created the files. Right, right. Obama created the files. Okay. And Hillary made the files about Clinton.

The second is that it would be devastating to our relationship with Israel, or it was at a request of Israel, or it'd be devastating to our relationship if the CIA is that to be exposed. I mean, for example, everybody knows the CIA killed Kennedy. Why has the CIA fought the release of these documents for 60 years? Wait, they did? We just, that is- I'm sorry, okay.

I think that- Yeah, okay. Okay, okay. Again, let me be more precise in my language. I think that they were aware of and participated at least in some form in the plot that killed Kennedy. I'll put it more responsible. Or at least the cover-up.

Not the kill, at the very least, involved in the plot and of course in the cover-up. That's actually not a question. So why did they do that? Because they knew that it would break the American public's irrevocable trust in the way that they conduct business. And that's why they fought for years to make sure that it didn break the American public's irrevocable trust in the way that they conduct business. And that's why they fought for years to make sure that it didn't happen or to release the documents. I think it's the same here in this case.

It's like, look, what we have is so bad to the CIA, to the FBI, to Mossad, to Saudi, to all these governments and to the Israeli prime ministers and others, that it would just be so revelatory of the way that we conduct business, it would make it impossible for us to continue business as usual. And sir, business as usual is so important that we just have to release all of this stuff. And that's how the pressure comes down on Cash Patel, on Dan Bongino, on the attorney general. And yeah, I mean, it leads to them saying, Cash literally said in 2023, the Epstein files are under the direct control

of the FBI director. He became the FBI director. And now he's like, it was all a conspiracy theory. He literally said that. The conspiracy theories were never true. The conspiracy theories you invented, man. So you were either lying then or you're lying now. Bongino, I mean, I have the clips

that people can play if they want to of the stuff that we can never let up on this story. We can never let go. Attorney General Pam Bondi from the White House lawn, which used to mean something, I have the client list on my desk, there are thousands of victims, there are all the files, we're ready to release them.

And then, you know, Akash, I think you said this, you were like, either it was all a lie or you exploited the thousands of children to get elected. That's pretty fucked up. So there's no good answer here. Personally, I lean to the latter. I think it's an intelligence thing and perhaps as a crossover with Trump himself, which I did not believe until very recently. When you say intelligence thing, and this seems more realistic to me, not that the intelligence has devised this blackmail scheme. Yeah, exactly. As I laid out for the multiple hours.

But he was potentially an asset to multiple intelligence agencies. And they looked the other way at his sexual deviant behavior. And then started to cover it up with the non-prosecution agreement. And that's the complicity. That's the smoking gun. And that's why it still remains. I mean, look, even the Justice Department admitted that was a bad deal and we never should have done it.

And you know what the irony is? It's the Justice Department themselves, Maine Justice, the Washington DC, they're the ones who told Acosta to do the non-prosecution agreement. But then they turn around and they blame Acosta. And so, like, it comes, yeah, I always feel bad for the guy, you know, in a way, because it looks like he was just doing

what he was told, and he probably wanted to continue the investigation, I mean, I don't know, he still signed it, yeah, I agree, he was complicit and he lived with it, and he got rewarded for it, he was the Labor Secretary. For like a day? No, for a while, 2017 to 2019. Oh!

He reigned for over two years. And then they got him out of it. And then, well, yeah, and then he was the Patsy, they were like, hey, you gotta go, somebody's gotta go down for this, and he resigned, they got him out. And then, well, yeah. And then he was the patsy. They were like, hey, you gotta go. Somebody's gotta go down for this. And he resigned. I think he's very rich and probably works in finance or whatever now.

But my point is just that it goes up high. And unfortunately, we don't even really know how high. And what's left to be released is still just an immense amount of documentation, which, no, we don't have a right to have it, like a theoretical right, but we almost have like a promise here from the campaign, from the president,

that they would release everything. They would declassify everything, and they have immediately turned their back on that. Where is- I gotta use the bathroom. You guys keep going. Where six months in, give me your grade on Trump. The good, the bad, what's his report, Gargir? Well, I'm actually not important in this.

Let's look at the issues for things that I think he was elected on. I think he was elected on two issues, three primarily. Number one is the economy because inflation was high. Inflation report came out today. It's actually increased 2.7% since June. A lot of that is, in my opinion, because of the incompetent way that they've rolled out the tariffs. It actually makes me really upset. I'm really pro-tariff, the idea of tariff, strategic tariffs. I think the way that this has been done has been frankly

a disaster. The only reason that it didn't crash the economy is because he rolled them all back and said, we're going to do a 90-day pause or whatever. But creating chaos in people's lives and fucking with people's businesses is terrible. Mark and I are new parents. Do you remember the stroller problem about how over 90% of strollers and car seats come from China? Well, the up-and-baby stroller that everyone in New York has, that went up by hundreds of dollars as a result of the tariffs. Sorry, I think that's wrong.

I think the car seats have become more expensive. It's like you were elected to make life better for people. That's a pretty material way, actually, that Trump directly impacted me, and all other new parents here in the United States. So that's where something, I think, creating that chaos economically has been a problem. On the bill, the bill philosophically to me, I just think really comes away from a lot of the Trump promise. And I think I heard you talking about the bill. I mean, let's just look at the math, right? They are like like, oh, well, we're gonna cut spending. And it's like, well, okay, but you increase the defense

budget by $150 billion, right? By the way, Doge never looked at the DOD. What happened there? You know, like, whoa, where are you, Doge? Why did we fire like somebody in the National Weather Service and not someone in the Pentagon? We can't pass an audit for five years in a row. And so, you know, this is talk and it was cheap in my opinion.

Like they increased the defense budget and instead, you know, they put work requirements in Medicaid and in food stamps. I'm not necessarily against work requirements per se, but really what bothered me was the way they were increasing the dollar shift to the states. This is really wonky. I apologize to everyone, but the end result is that more people could probably lose healthcare and or food stamps. Again, we can have a conversation about welfare and food stamps and all of that, but it was

the priority of increasing the defense budget, of extending the tax cuts, which are pretty overwhelmingly good for the top 1%. Again, to help people overseas it seems at the expense of. Yeah, exactly. So helping people overseas and you've got people who are at least precarious, you know, in terms of that. So I think that the bill was a big miss in my opinion. On the simple promise of make America great again, it seems life for most Americans is not as good.

I think that the fundamentals still remain the same. And that's the problem is I don't see a concrete way to fix that. So yesterday a report came out from the National Association of Realtors that the average first timetime homebuyer in the United States is now 38 years old. He used to be 27. And look, Trump can't just wave a magic wand and fix that. To the extent that he can do anything, it's to fire the Fed chair and I guess, you know, let's give him credit. He's trying to try. But my point is just that the GOP as a whole and that bill did not seem laser-focused, you know, on those problems.

So I would say I don't think it's gone very well. Then on immigration, I mean, look, it's controversial. I wait for Andrew. I would say of all the things that he promised to do, that's the one where he really has, I think he's delivered. The problem, in my opinion, is the way the administration decides to conduct itself is kind of like an Iraq shock and awe approach where you come in with these big operations. Now I will explain the logic.

The logic is because there's 30 million people here probably who are illegal. Deporting them all even with billions of dollars is like probably impossible. So you want to stage these like large scale things to get people to self-deport. And then about a million people or so, according to the administration, has left. We don't have a way of checking those numbers, which is why it's kind of difficult. But I would put it all together and I would say that the story to me is just chaos. It's like one that flips back and forth. We have Doge, which is in power.

Elon's the co-president. Then he leaves, right? And now he's, you know, talking about Epstein files and the America party, and then we bomb Iran very shortly afterwards. We said we weren't going to do that, and then we had the tariff brouhaha, like in between. It doesn't feel as if there's like a steady hand on the wheel, chaotically, I mean, and I would apply that to immigration as well. The biggest criticism Americans have right now about the immigration policy is not even necessarily deportation. It's the chaotic way that they

feel it's being handled. And if you think about it, it makes a lot of sense. Like, why were people so mad at Biden over the border? Because of the chaos at the border. And let's give Trump credit. He did fix that. There's zero illegal crossings. Fine. But the point is now they look at the raids themselves and the way they're conducted and kind of blown up by the White House as chaotic. And I think that when you put that together with the way that the tariff policy, the immigration policy, and even the war policy, I mean, we were negotiating with Iran and then we weren't negotiating with Iran.

We berated Zelensky in the Oval Office and told him we didn't have the cards and we're giving him more weapons. It doesn't make any fucking sense. And then the Epstein thing as well, you run on it, you say you have it, now you say you don't have it. It screams like chaos and kind of incompetence. And I can see why a lot of people are moving against it. So that's like my wholesome-

What grade would you give him? That sounds all bad. Me personally? Yeah. I mean, I would go issue by issue. So like on foreign policy, I would go issue by issue. So like on foreign policy, I would give an F just in terms of Ukraine and Israel. On immigration, considering what he ran on, I would probably give him like a B plus just

because on the merits, I think he actually is doing almost every single thing that he said he would do. If anything, I would say my criticism, I mean, to be open about it, I'm very pro-mass deportation, but my criticism of it is that it seems like in many cases they went more for the show as opposed to like the policy. And I think that's the problem. So that's like my personal criticism.

They said they were going to target criminals or not. And also the reason I will not give it an A is because a huge portion of the immigration machine was used to go after these like pro-Palestine students for speaking out against Israel. I'm like, yo, fuck that. Sorry. That's a total, not only a free speech concern, it's like, why are you using the resources of my government to deport critics of another country? What? People who are here legally? This is the least of our problems. But let's put that to the side. So on the economy, yeah, I mean, look, this isn't me speaking like people know I'm like, I'm pretty out of step with like the trickle down GOP. But like, I don't know, I think the big beautiful

bill was a disaster. Like only not only in terms of its unpopularity, but it didn't, you know, invest in all the things. It didn't invest in making America better. Like as a country, there's no massive expansion of manufacturing tax credits. There's no ability to compete and deal with China. It was really just kind of like a personal tax extension for the rich, more corporate tax extension for business as usual. That just, I think business as usual is what he was elected to go against.

So for me, it's like a C. So you can average all that together. I don't know what that is. Here's my question. F, A plus C. Yeah, so where does the conservative party go from here? We ask after the election, where does the liberal, where does the democratic party go?

The conservative party, what are y'all gonna do now? Well, what do you mean conservative party? Like the Republican party, the Republicans. Well, those are two very different things. Sorry, the Republican party, where do they go from here? What's the difference? Conservative is an ideology, Republican is a party. So conservative, so to be conservative is, that's a big, yeah, that's more of a metacompetence.

Is MAGA conservative? No, in many cases MAGA is not conservative. Most MAGA voters are on Medicaid and they don't want it to be cut, so they don't care about entitlement spending. That's a non-conservative position, right? But it's conservative to cut government spending. So those are kind of a direct tension. I could talk forever about this.

It's a very intro Washington kind of conversation. What it means to be conservative and kind of what it means to be a Republican. And Trump, in my opinion, the reason why he was able to succeed is because he wasn't conservative. And he even said that. He said, I'm not a conservative. Whenever he was running in the 2016 primary,

he is originally, at least to me, was more what I would call a rightist, like more somebody like the European right, a culture warrior who kind of accepts the legitimacy of the social welfare state and has more populous policies. But that's not conservative, right? It's very, very different. I know this is semantics, but like, it's important to like analyze like what we mean. So what happens to, I think what you're trying to say is the Republican Party. Yeah, the Republican Party. I mean, look, they still have a lot of choices. You

got three and a half more years to go. Like, that's a long ass time. Like who knows? All of this could be ancient news. I don't think so. I think in general, if you look at the history of presidencies, you're basically baked by a hundred days. They wasted their whole hundred days on Doge, in my opinion, which was a disaster at this point, I think we could fairly say. And then they did the tax cut or the tax bill, which exploded the deficit, increased defense spending by 150 billion. Yeah, the next hundred days wasn't much better.

Then they did Israel, the Iran thing. Now they're doing Ukraine. Who knows what's going to happen with that? I skipped over the tariffs, which I talked earlier, which were bad for the public and have not been handled competently really at all. So for them, I mean, their problem is, is that they're in a cult of personality. Like they're locked into Trump himself as an action. And the biggest problem for them is when John McCain lost, he was like, okay, it's your ... you guys do what you want. When Bush left, he was like, okay, you guys do what you want.

When Bush left, he was like, I'm out, right? They fuck off. And with Trump, like, do you guys ever see him not trying to guide the Republican Party? He would never allow a post-mortem. When Romney lost, right? The entire Republican Party had to have a conversation. Who are we?

What do we stand for? And the conclusion was, not that bullshit, not Romney. That's not going to stand with the Trump party. So I think that they have a lot of issues structurally for where they want to go. In my opinion, they won the popular vote for the first time since 2004 for a Republican. They flipped all kinds of crazy states because of the economy and really because of immigration. If they don't find a way to flip their numbers on both of those, and especially if the American way of life does not get materially better at a structural level, I think they're going

to lose. I think they deserve to lose, if that's what happens. If that age for a first-time homebu from 38 from today to like 42, and if home prices continue to go up and the supply continues to go down, if we see wages stagnant, if we don't see like real material changes to the way people live, I just think, yeah, I think that the Republicans will lose. And we always live in a change election. I don't want to divert from this too much.

I know that we probably got to wrap up soon because we got to do something for you. So just real quick, obviously, we're in New York City right now, greatest city in the world. Yes. And there's an interesting mayoral election coming up. What are your thoughts on the cultural circumstances that have happened that have propelled Mamdani to superstardom and a primary victory? Mamdani is a, is a, is, there's this phrase from back in the day, and it's a vindicating phrase to me.

It was all politics is local. That was what they used to say back in the day. In 2010, it actually flipped because there were all of these Democrats who lived in Republican areas and they just got blown out even though they lived there for 20 years because they're like, he support Obama and Republicans go, oh, I can't deal with that. He supports Obama. Mamdani was a return, right? Because what his opponents did is they made their entire campaign against him about Israel.

And he's like, no, guys, I'm talking about New York City. I'm talking about the halal carts. I'm talking about rent is too damn high. And what I really love about that is it subverts all of this national political rhetoric, DEI style language. And it brings us back to what are you going to do about New York, dude? Which is what people need when they're suffering. And that's what people need, exactly. And this city, people have made a lot about, oh, Mom Donnie won the rich people making

100 grand. I'm like, bro, New York a hundred grand. You're like a rent poor Your poor shit actually like like on a bed like a guy You're legitimately eligible for the housing lot No, like act like guys making 50k in Iowa are way richer than you. Yeah, we're making a hundred like post-tax post-state local federal 100k in New York like I'm like you got not yeah, it's making 100. Like post-tax, post-state, local, federal, 100K in New York? I'm like, you got roommates. Yeah, it's like, bro, you got multiple roommates. You're living in a three bed if you're like 25 in, I don't know, the East Alphabet City

or something like that. So let's recalibrate for New York expectations. That's a good-ass point. My favorite videos that he would do is the Halal Cart video. Hey guys, Halal's too expensive. Let's make it eight bucks again. I loved whenever he walked across Manhattan.

And the thing is, what he was able to do, he'd be like, no, you're obsessed about Israel. You guys are the, I'm not spending all my time talking about this. I would stay here in New York, and here are all my policies to trying to change that. And if you've lived under Bloomberg, I mean, my criticism of this city is that they unfortunately kind of turned it into a playground of the rich

Yeah, as opposed to a place that people lived, you know, when the stuff I would read about the 1980s in New York I'm not saying it didn't exist. I think it's always been a playground for the rich. It definitely has but it has become the capital of the global financial elite for a certain, you know, I mean when I walk around here It's always been that though. Yeah, but I mean, I don't know. I mean, when you walked around in the 80s, do you barely even hear English in the streets here in the summer, right? Half these people, they're from fucking Dubai, Saudi Arabia, Germany, like all over the world. I don't know about that. I think you're describing London.

Oh, there's that too. But in terms of, I think the difference now is that like everybody always came here for opportunity, right? It didn't matter if you were an immigrant, you came here for opportunity. If you're from America and you moved here from like Wisconsin or like everybody always came here for opportunity. Right? That's right. That's right. If you're an immigrant, you came here for opportunity. If you're from America and you moved here from like Wisconsin or Maine, you came here from opportunity. You think you're going to work at a big fund. You're thinking to be a graphic designer. You think it would be a fashion designer, something. It's always opportunity. And I think that what's happening now is that kids or Gen Z feels like the only way to make it now is through TikTok.

Yeah. And I don't begrudge them because when we were coming up, at least in entertainment, there was like Comedy Central and TV, there are these things that you could get on that made it feel accessible. And even if it wasn't accessible for you, there was this idea that like next year they're going to do an audition and maybe I'll get that. Right. This idea of like getting on SNL, all these different things were possible. And one of the nice things about the, you know,

decentralization of entertainment and making it go on the internet is that it gave freedom for people like us who wanted to go after it and make it ourselves. The problem is not everybody wants to go after and make it themselves. They want institutions and structures that are established that they can hope to get accepted by and put on.

And now that those have fallen apart, and that's just in entertainment, now I think people are like, so I just got to go viral on TikTok? And it's just like, I love that because I love the idea of like, I'm in control of my destiny. Not everybody loves that. And I think even the illusion of opportunity is better than luck. Yeah, definitely. And I think they're seeing that in not just entertainment, but

you're probably seeing that in other spheres as well. And to go back to what you're saying about like, you make $100,000 a year, but you have $300,000 worth of debt. Yeah. I think that's why the rent freeze is so enticing to people because if you're spending $1,700 a month, let's say on your student loans, and that's just the interest. You're not even chipping away at them. That's your savings. So if you, again, take your rent from $5,000 a month and you take it down to 3,300, now you have your savings again.

And I think in a way, the program is kind of like punishing landlords for universities charging exorbitant prices. Yeah, that's right. So you're just passing the buck to someone else and it's like landlord is a bad person, of course, landlords for universities charging exorbitant prices. Yeah, that's right. So you're just passing the buck to someone else. And it's like, landlord is a bad person, of course, because they own this property,

and there are shitty landlords, I get it. But like, I think the core of the issue is the fact that these kids are saddled with this debt, with these degrees that offer them nothing in a city like New York, and they're paralyzed with this fear that there is no opportunity for upward mobility. That's very well said, and what you're getting to,

and we'll wrap here, is like a structural issue, which is that America and our generation, I'm younger millennial, like I'm 33, and when I was coming up, it was you go to college and you will be rewarded. And now I'm actually at the age where I get to look back at who made it and who didn't. And I'm telling you guys, my friends with the most debt,

they didn't make it. It's fucked, dude. And I'm telling you guys, my friends with the most debt, they didn't make it. It's fucked, dude. It's fucked up. And that, you watch the choices that people have to make. We're gonna delay having a kid. That breaks my heart, man. We're gonna have to move wherever, even though we wanna live here,

we have to go move somewhere else, cause we can't afford it, even though this is the best place to make money, right? This is the best place for my career. I can't have it all. I have to make serious choices. You can't take the risk necessary for success. It's almost impossible to become successful

without taking on immense risk. Quite literally. When I started my business, I had $50,000 in credit card debt. I would have been fucked if breaking points didn't work. But you know, I mean, I was like, you know, I'm young, I called you before. I was like, I think it'll work.

You know, I think so. And, but you know, we would have been actually hoes. But imagine somebody with $300,000 in debt. They're not doing that. They have a job that actually pays for things. And they go, I can't risk leaving this. Or wife and kids. I mean, wife and kids is like, I think that's such a-

They're like stratospheric in terms of- Dream for people. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, I think that that contributes to the support from Alandani and specifically the demographic that seems to be really excited about what he's going to bring. But to me, there's a little bit of this passing the buck. It's like, okay, we have this thing we can't move, which are these loans, so we got to move it to another area to free up some economic mobility for these people.

And if you're one of those people that's out with that debt, you don't give a fuck who got to pay for it, as long as it's not you. So I get that. They're offering a solution that maybe in the long term will hurt people. And I want to talk to him about it because I want to see how we grapple with that. What happens? He's got to come on the show. No, I've been talking to him.

Oh, good, good. I've been talking to him, so it looks like that's gonna happen. Because I genuinely wanna ask earnestly, what are the downstream effects of some of these policies? How does that work? But there is no question that they're enticing, and it's not to the poor.

People think that, oh, the poor love the socialists. No, no, no, no, no. It's the middle class that are entitled in their brains to a better life that they're not having that this is so enticing. They're like, wait, why am I saying economic bracket is my parents? I was supposed to be richer than them. Frankly, lower than them. Or lower. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There is no middle class. In my opinion, you're materially much poorer than your parents. You're way materially poorer. Yeah. And that's fucked up. I think that's wrong. And that's a systemic problem that gets to the very structure of our economy.

I mean, one of the most important facts in the world, from my friend, Joe Weisenthal, is that Shanghai Stock Exchange has barely grown since 2009, but everyone in China, you are way more materially rich since 2009. In America, the number has to go up. Capital must return, specifically at 8 to 9%. Our whole retirement's banked on that, our whole economy is banked on that,

and it doesn't matter if the shit that we own is nicer or not, it must return, it must have dividends, it must have pay off. And in Shanghai and in Beijing and all of that, they're like, oh, we don't give a fuck about that. They're like, are we getting drone deliveries? Are our houses nicer? Are our electric cars the best vehicles

in the world, hands down? I'm telling you, if their ban was lifted, I would buy them tomorrow. There is no competition. I would throw the Tesla, I'm getting in the Yang Wang. Like it's done. BYD, let me in. Huawei, any of these other people. They

have the best cars in the world. It's genuinely not a question. Not best electric, best cars in the world are in Shanghai, Beijing. Like the Chinese peasant is materially much better off than the United States than it was compared to 2009 than the average American from 2009 to 2025. So let's all spend some time asking why. And a lot of it is debt leverage projects, education being sold, badly structured debt. I mean, the way that people are... even how do you get rich in America today? For most people, it's like, or even really filthy rich, it's to work in hedge funds and in finance and micro transactions for stuff that does not make this country better off

If you you know how you get rich in China the government goes you're allowed to get rich You can do it by building the best electric cars in the world. Oh the hedge funds you're gone You're going to you're going to the gulag. Yeah, actually we don't do that here, right? And that I'm not advocating for that system, but in comparison to ours it does work And that's a deep question that we all have to ask. It's like, who is better off today? I believe that the Chinese are better off as a result of their way of life, which is really fucked up

because I think we have a much better, we had a path. We didn't always used to be like this and we could go in another direction. Thanks, Reagan. There you go. It's not just Reagan. They're all complicit now at this point. Sagar, thank you so much, bro.

We love you, appreciate it. Thank you, guys. Make sure you check out Sagar on BreakingPoints. There you go.