Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh - The Last Dance: Episodes 1 & 2

Episode Date: April 20, 2020

This week Andrew Schulz, Akaash SIngh, and AlexxMedia discuss episodes 1 and 2 of the ESPN docuseries, The Last Dance (Michael Jordan Doc). INDULGE! Want an extra episode a week? Join the Flagrant Army www.Patreon.com/FLAGRANT2

fuck it i'm gonna start i'm gonna start the episode by uh by just playing you this video so right now we're talking about the last dance all right i'm gonna start the episode by playing you my girl secretly recorded me explaining to her the rules for watching the last dance and i played it she just sent it to me this morning I played it for our gosh and Alex before because I didn't know what wild shit I might have said so we didn't get to play it live but apparently this is the conversation

alright hold on oh my god no no at commercials I answer all the questions remember it's on ESPN so there's going to be commercials and there are going to be tons of fucking commercials can we pause, it's on ESPN, so there's going to be commercials, and there are going to be tons of fucking commercials. Can we pause it when it's live? I need to watch it live. I need to watch it with everybody

that's watching it. I'll be looking at Twitter during the commercials. You can look at Twitter, but I can't talk? During the commercials. No, but we can pause it. However I'm going to watch this, I'm going to watch it. But we can pause it for me to ask a question. No, we cannot. I'll watch it at the studio. I'll leave right now.

If we're laughing about this because you think it's not serious, then if you ruin this for me, I swear to God, I'll jump tight, son. I got so tight, bro. I got so tight. Oh, my God. Because I could tell she was nitpicking. I didn't realize she was fucking with me, right? I could tell she was nitpicking. Can I didn't realize she was fucking with me, right? I could tell she was nitpicking.

Can I ask you a question? Can we pause? Pause. So I'm supposed to be a little bit behind everybody else watching the last dance. Oh my God. And I lost it and I said, I'm about to leave. We're going to the thing. I'm going to go to the studio.

I was about to get on the bike and go right to the studio. I swear to God, I was going to watch the whole thing because I had just enough time. I started the argument around 8.15 because I knew that this could happen. And I wanted to lay the ground rules for watching it, right? She gets me all fucking riled up. I said, if you fucking ruin this, she stopped recording, but the best part,

I thought, I got really upset and I look at her, I was like, I was like, I was like, let me tell you something. I was like,

Michael Jordan is the greatest athlete in the history of the world. This guy has six rings. You don't even have one. Pay attention. Maybe you can learn something. I had to put it in terms that she would understand. Okay?

Wow. You want to learn how to get a ring? Watch this man over the next four Sundays. Oh, my God. That is hilarious. That is fucking hilarious. Holy shit. I'll show the video.

I'll send you the video. You can cut it right in. I don't give a fuck. And did you hear my voice with my girl mad high? Mad polite? Okay, baby, what I'm going to do is

I got a white man voice. I didn't even realize I got one. I swear to God, I'll jump out the window. I'll go to the studio right now. When she kept pushing back, like, so you can talk to Twitter, but you can't talk to me? The second I heard that, I was like, oh, it's going to be a thing.

I'm going to have to explain things or whatever. A conversation? But ain't no time for conversation. It's the last dance, bro. It's the last one. It's the last dance. There's no more the last one. It's the last dance. They did another dance after this.

There's no more dances. After this and then eight more. Hey. I couldn't believe it, bro. I couldn't believe it. We almost got into a fight. During it,

I had to hit vegan bae with a couple bop bop bops. Do it. She's like, oh boy, I was bop bop bop. I sounded like gibbity boppity

bippity bop bop. Yo. What's that motherfucker's name swing i know it's a shine song but i forgot the fucking that's what i said the whole time wait a minute so jerry kraus and jerry commercial commercial she couldn't talk unless it was commercials that's the rule you're getting ignored ladies if you're listening to this right now, and I'm telling you, this is very important because this story is told in a way where women will like it. So if you're listening to this podcast right now, you're a woman, you don't care about sports. Right now we're talking about The Last Dance, which is a Bulls documentary about their last season and also the seasons that preceded that and the drama, not their last winning season

if you will um but i thought it was a jordan documentary only we'll get to that later but um it centers obviously around the greatest player of all time michael jordan but it's not really about basketball it's about the drama it's real housewives around the basketball of basketball yeah really like that's what it is so you're a girl, you're going to be sucked into this thing. Yeah. It's maybe the best way to get your girl into sports. Have them personally invested. Like you know how like 24-7 trick women into like in boxing?

Did it? 100%. So 24-7, those documentaries on HBO, Oscar de la Hoya, these types of fighters trick women into being really invested in boxing because they're like, oh, he's a handsome guy, but also he likes his kids

and he takes care of his family and they wake up in the morning and they run together, all that other bullshit. This could be that for basketball. Right. Son, I'm going to say it right now,

this is going to win a bunch of Emmys. Like, this is... First of all, there's nothing else coming out. In three months, it's over. It's so well done, son. Oh, my God.

I have to... Like, I didn't know... You know the saying, like, oh, you're on the edge of your seat and shit? And it's, like, just a saying. I was literally

on the edge of my seat, like, leaning towards the TV while watching this shit. That's how fucking invested I was in this shit. It was... Let me tell you how great Michael Jordan is.

What type of sneakers did you wear today great michael jordan is what type of sneakers did you wear today jordan's alex what type of sneakers did you wear today mark what type of sneakers did you wear today fucking canadian i wore jordans you wore jordans you were jordan's i'm a 36 year old man there's no reason i should see something and be like i don't want to wear my jordans today right like i understand when you're young you watch white men can't jump and you want to play pickup basketball because it's so fucking cool, and you're a kid, you're easily influenced, right? But we are grownups.

I didn't even realize I did it until I got here. Oh, really? In my mind, I was like, oh, Jordans look good with these sweatpants, whatever, look like I can. No, it's the last dance. 100%. And when I got here, I was like, oh, I'm a sheep just like everybody else. Yes, you are.

I was like, wait a minute. I was intentional. I was like, which Jordans am I going with? I chose them last night. Oh, I'm a sheep just like everybody else. Yeah, she was. I was intentional. I was like, which Jordans am I going with? I chose them last night. Oh, really? I chose them last night. Me and my girl were fighting, so I might as well look at what I'm going to wear next time. It is what it is.

Listen, sometimes you need to cut different shit out for greatness. That's what I learned. Oh, man. That's what I learned. You need a single focus for greatness. And that's the shirt shirt if I'm not mistaken that you wore when you performed in Chicago no

I performed Boston with this close close I should have worn other shit I got the Rodman joint

that might come out for the Rodman episode Alex but Al you got on your black red and white yeah yeah I had to wear the colors

I had to wear the colors I don't know what you're doing but son you might have to get the Jordan sneakers up and put them out here. I was talking to Bugg. I was like, yo, I think I'm going to order his jersey from high school, college. I was just thinking about this.

Remember how Jordans were kind of played out? They're dropping the fives. I'm buying. Got it. And then I looked at your black threes. I was like, I don't got cement threes. What the fuck am I doing? I need bread fours.

I'm back in the Jordan game, son. We're back in the game. You know the craziest thing I saw? I don't know if this is true or not, but I want to get into the documentary. I want to get everybody's take on it, but a couple things I thought were interesting. The reason I was so excited,

I'm sure the reason why many of us are so excited about this documentary is because Jordan was the ultimate competitor. Yes. Right? The truest form of alpha male that has ever existed in sport, in my opinion. Yes.

Right? And the impetus, the catalyst for this special getting made, apparently, this footage has been sat on for 22 years. Yes. Right? This footage has been sat on for 22 years. Yes. Right?

When Jordan Green lit it was after LeBron finished his 3-1 comeback with the Cavs. Now, if you want to look at insane competitor, right? Yeah. You know your legacy is the greatest to ever do it is locked in. Right. All of a sudden, LeBron does something truly miraculous. He comes back 3-1 against the best team ever possibly yeah right this was prior to kevin durant being there but even if they win that game they're 73-9 and they got the chip they're the best team that's the best team ever comes back and beats them everybody ourselves included start going not lebron is the

best he's the go etc jordan picks up the phone makes a phone call he goes it's green lit go make it let motherfuckers know who the goat is i was wondering if it was intentional because i was like yo this is 23 year old footage now and i remember spike lee like 10 years ago i don't know if this was the footage but he was like we follow jordan with cameras this whole last season i don't know if he's actually involved in this, but he said, we followed Jordan with cameras. We're going to put that movie out. This is 2008 or something. I've been thinking this was going to come.

I was like, oh, I must have died. And all of a sudden, it comes out. I'm like, why now? Yeah. Why now? That's fucking crazy. The GOAT. Ultimate competitor.

23 years later. Oh, fuck. It's 23 years later. Oh! 23 years after what? It just 23 oh 23 97 98 season after his season 23 years later wow i mean okay where do we start where do we start i can't even i need to re-watch it to really like just gather everything the first thing i picked up on is this motherfucker intimidates me 30 years later 3 000 miles away whatever the fuck i like first of all

real quick to everybody listening we are reviewing episodes one and two okay so if you're getting to this late maybe you're getting to this a few weeks from now um just know that we're going to review every single one we'll do it every monday it will come out every monday but this is just apps one and two because that's what we've seen okay go on i i hang around with obsessive people who want to be the greatest i am we are it's none of us are beta males we go into this thing and i'm watching jordan on a fucking couch yeah 50 years old got a little belly and then old footage of him and this motherfucker is intimidates me through a tv yeah it's crazy the intensity the fucking level of everything there will never be another i felt stupid for thinking lebron was even close to this guy i felt ashamed he made me feel

that through a tv not even talking to anybody in particular yeah so did i there's an interesting conversation happened on i think on twitter um and if you want to know like what it takes to essentially be that great, how maniacal you have to be to be that great, how sociopathic you got to be to be that great, and maybe why LeBron doesn't have that. And maybe it's for good. Yeah. It's like I think that we'll end up learning shit about Jordan

that on a surface level we don't want to know or don't want to like or don't want to appreciate. We'll learn some shit that we're kind of like, ah, it sucks that he was willing to do that. I think we will learn that throughout the documentary. But on a primal level, we're like, oh, he was willing to do whatever it took to win. took to win yeah dude and i'm one of those thing that was really interesting it was the twitter conversation was uh uh people go braun got tristan thompson 80 million braun got jr 60 million braun got a bunch of other like journeyman players contracts throughout yeah braun is a better philanthropist jordan let scotty get seven years. Now, a lot goes into this, right? A lot goes into this.

But a lot was made out of that contract that Scottie Pippen got. Important thing to know. Before you get crazy upset about Scottie getting seven years, 18 million. Seven years, 18 million. Jordan signed a rookie contract for six years. Okay? He was making, at the end of that contract four and a half million or something like that i can get the exact statistic it wasn't a lot of

money nba players weren't making a lot of money at that time i mean that's still tons of fucking money all these people who just got 1200 stimulus check talking about scotty only made 18 million it's like you'll never make 18 million in your life why are you worried about 18 million but jordan just a year prior was only making four million or something like that four and a half million jordan only made crazy money two years of his career he got the 30 million dollar contract and then the 36 million dollar contract after that he stops and then he comes back and plays for the wizards where he played for like veterans minimum it was like a million or something like that so scotty wasn't getting that badly ripped

off scotty just fucked himself that's what i i jordan was right i wanted to be mad at him for saying scotty was selfish but scotty was selfish you signed a shitty deal that the person fucking you over told you was a shitty deal i wouldn't sign this deal you want the money and why did you sign it because you needed the money and that? Because you needed the money. And that's fair. You needed the money. Now, I don't know how a family in Arkansas that was probably raised on under $50,000 for the household couldn't survive on over $2 million a year. I don't understand. He's like, I had to take care of my family.

It was like, over $2 million? $9 million for three years? You can do that? I mean, it's still, he has to take care of himself, too. You can take care of yourself. For your contact for $10 million, you can't take care of a lot of people? Yeah, but you're a ball player. You want to get a nice house.

That's on you. That's on you. That's on you. That's not on the organization, so you got to decide, like, don't do the whole, I had to take care of my family shit. You could have taken care of your family. $1 million you give your family, and they are good for the rest of their life. Literally, for the rest of their life, they're fine.

So I think what – we'll get into other discussions about this, but I think something that's really interesting going on right here is like they're positioning the Bulls organization, especially Kraus. Kraus is obviously the villain in the documentary, and you need characters in a documentary, but they're positioning Pippen as this player that was extremely taken advantage of.

And he wasn't taken advantage of because he agreed to sign the contract. Now, when you underperform your contract, you don't give back the money. I'm a Knicks fan. I know motherfuckers who underperformed their contract and never once have they been like, you know what?

My knee blew out. Can I give you back 10 million a year? Word. Ever, right? So if you decide- Begging Mello to fucking give away his trade clause. Fucking knee blew out. Knee blew out.

Begging him. Wouldn't do it, right? Knee blew out I can have sympathy for. There's a lot of people who are like, you know what? My contract year, I was in the best shape of my life and then I just haven't really committed like that since i signed you guys should take some money back we all know contract your players get huge deals and don't ever they're never that good again that's right dion waiters was in great shape when he needed that contract

wouldn't he bro i felt so little sympathy for scotty pippen right you signed a deal that they the jerry reinsdorf is no hero he's no angel. If his story, which Scotty doesn't refute, at least in the documentary, is, I told you not to sign this deal, don't fucking come crying to me if you sign it. That's it. You are warned up front. That's a wolf in wolf's clothing. Wolf in sheep's clothing, I could be mad at. I feel deceived.

A wolf who tells me, I'm a fucking wolf, yo. You signed this contract. I'm not letting you out of this this is your fuck up and i will not have sympathy and keep in mind scotty pippen did not come from a division one school i don't well he signed his deal in 91 so he wasn't it was a rookie deal no no i know it was a rookie but i'm saying it's like he wasn't this he wasn't scotty pippen yet yeah right he was good but he wasn't Scotty Pippen yet. Yeah. Right? He was good, but he wasn't one of the 50 greatest players of all time. I think they had a ring, though. 89-90, they got their first ring. I'm pretty sure.

So if he signed it in 90-91, he's coming off a chip. Then he's a fucking retard. He's a fucking retard, yo. I have nothing. I thought he signed it. I think he signed it before. I thought he signed it. I think he signed it before. I thought he signed it before getting the rings. And can you look at when he signed his contract?

So 1991 he got the ring. My bad. Because if he signed it before, it makes complete sense. June 1901. Is what? When he signed the contract? So June is... Right after winning a ring.

He would have won the ring in- He's a retard. You shouldn't feel bad at all. You shouldn't feel bad at all. You're a fucking retard. Coming off a championship. You're a fucking retard. I need to take care of my family.

I'll take seven years. Get the fuck out of here. And let me say another thing. Your first contract, you're taking care of your family. What are you talking about? Your family in, what was it, Arkansas? Yeah. Your family in Arkansas?

You can't take your family- What? It might have been 93. 93 what? That he signed the contract? No, no, no. It was a seven year deal. It had been up in 2000. And he left the team in 97, 98. Everybody's mad at MJ.

You made all this money. Basketball players didn't make all this money back then. You know why they made all this money? MJ. He lifted everybody's financial situation. I mean, we can get into that right now if you want. But again, people need to understand. And you can even look at the collective bargaining agreement.

There was a time where I think the CBA said that the total salary cap for a team was like $12 million. Yeah, because the league wasn't making money like that. The league wasn't making money. Now, so people want to look at the NBA, right? There's different phases. The Magic Bird phase, the reason why Magic Bird, Magic Bird precedes Jordan, obviously,ba right there's different phases the magic bird phase the reason why magic bird magic bird precedes jordan obviously but then there's some crossover but the reason why magic bird was so interesting is because that's when fortune 500 companies came into the league that's

when it became legit nationally because before that they wouldn't even play the finals live they would tape it right and then at two in the morning or some shit like that 12 in the morning whatever they would put it on right like you can't even beat out fucking the cosby show we're not doing this right so that's national awareness celtics lakers bird magic national awareness and fortune 500 companies and that's important because when you get fortune 500 companies to invest in the league that's like a way of legitimizing the business a lot of ways. They're like, oh, this is a real thing. They're not investing in highlight. They're not investing in fucking dodgeball.

But they're doing basketball. Okay, shit is here. Jordan makes it international. Jordan makes it a global game. He takes the NBA to a height that it hasn't seen since. That's what people don't realize. The ratings for the finals during Jordan's reign aren't touched now. We don't come close now.

To be fair, is that because there's so many more channels? Say again? I mean, he was doing that in 91 or whatever when there was like eight channels. Ain't nobody choosing to watch VH1 over the NBA finals, fam like you could have a million channels it don't matter that when the nba finals is happening sports fans aren't going oh but there's bowling on now it's the same amount of sports everything is going down more there's less sports fans because now you don't a lot of us are sports fans because you got raised with sports like that's what was on that's what i'm watching yeah if you've got 400 channels and youtube and all that shit kids that are growing up now aren't going to be as into sports

as we were i i disagree and i also i make the argument that there's more people there's literally more people that exist now there's more people there's more ways to watch it more people more global ways to watch the sport is even more global now because of jordan and it still does worse actually to your point uh adam silver's big thing that he's worried about now is people don't actually watch the games they'll talk about it they'll tweet about it they'll watch highlights but they don't actually sit down and watch the games all right so then there's there's and there's other things that are going on here maybe people cutting cable packages etc whatever but even if you go back to like the height of post jordan era right when people were super excited about sports

so kobe years all that shit is not fucking with the jordan there big hangover after jordan left huge so it's like jordan is the most iconic sports hero in history you saw the parts where he went maybe ali but it's really rare air globally he went to paris and he's a star in paris they don't even play basketball that blew my fucking mind dude think about this how many french players were there in the nba at that time zero had one of the guys when he was playing i think in france in the handshake line after the game asked for his elbow pad asked for his wrist but his elbow pad like that's how you know you're on a different level the guy you just played for you asked for a thing he sweated in blew my mind that you just lost to there was a body there was that

that game dude i want to talk about that because that game stuck out to me as like so much there and that little thing where first of all he's playing a fucking exhibition against france right and he goes out and gives it his all right Right. How many stars are doing that today? It's an exhibition against a country that doesn't fucking matter really. Like there's nobody here

that I need to dominate to send a message. I'm just Jordan and I'm always gonna be the fucking greatest. Yeah. And then you remember that guy

was kind of like joking around next to him that young buck that was like the guy next to him. Burrell. Yeah. You got your first ring.

And then he's like MJ I got my first ring blah and then he's like mj i got my first ring and the look michael jordan scared the shit out of me yo and he kind of laughed afterward because the guy got in a laugh but he was like are you fucking mind celebrating can i get a hug yeah oh yeah and then the way the guy asked for the elbow pad or elbow band or whatever and jordan just like he was so used to motherfuckers accosting him he doesn't even make eye contact he just takes it off and hands it to him yeah because that's how often people were at his throat they're interviewing him about scotty pippen later on remember how close the microphones were to his face yeah like no space yo you could also show you could also

see like how valuable like parenting is like jordan right? Like, and you saw like he's sharp, he's savvy. But when you heard his parents speak, they were. You see what you see where he gets it from. Oh, yeah. I mean, like both mother and father, mother smart. But like, wait, can we say this real quick? Go. She was a piece.

How Michael age in this poorly? Dolores looks younger than him. His mom looks younger than him. Beautiful. Dead ass, bro. Like stunning, bro. It was unbelievable. Please, Jordan, don't come after me.

Dude, it's crazy. Scottie Pippen's older brother looked like Candyman. Who said his name five times in a row? Dolores got her real teeth. Scottie got veneers. Yeah. What the fuck? Scottie's teeth look good, though.

I'm not going to lie. He got the best teeth. He spent all that contract on them fucking teeth. I only assume they're veneers because I got insecure about teeth look good though he got the best he spent all that contract on them fucking teeth i only assume they're veneers because i got insecure about my own teeth when i looked at his all right i had to find a reason i assume you had veneers because charles oakley probably knocked them shits out slapping his little bitch ass around that's why i signed that contract oakley was like signed a contract yo oakley is a bully, son. That's Akash. Oakley's a Akash, bro. I swear to God.

Dude, he slapped him in his face on TV. With a video camera. That's a fight, bro. That is a fight. That's a fight, but you see right there why Scotty's the perfect sidekick. Because he's willing to get slapped in the face. Because Scotty is a little brother. That's a little brother.

You slap me, little brother. You're not going to do nothing. You're going to just laugh and be like, stop. And Jordan. I know. I'm a little brother. You're not going to do nothing. You're going to just laugh and be like, stop. And Jordan. I know. I'm a little brother. I got slapped around. But Jordan was a little brother, and he's like,

when you go blow to blows with someone you love more than anything in this world, that's when you empty the tank or whatever it was. I wasn't sure of the term he used, but that's the height of competition. When you're willing to fight someone that you love more than anything. So if I'm willing to fight my brother, I'm willing to destroy any other team. That's light work. I'll take Danny Ainge out to play golf to see if I can find some weaknesses in him. Dude.

That's what that shit was about. Like he took Danny Ainge, the guy who played for the Boston Celtics. He was a shooting guard for the Boston Celtics. He's now the president, I think, or the GM for the Boston Celtics. But he took him out to play golf. Like he is working you. He's trying to find your weakness. He's trying to get you to cozy up to him.

It was such a rich people flex. It was like, oh, yeah, we played for a couple bucks. Yeah. You know there was like thousands of money on the line. Thousands. Scotty's whole contract. It's Jordan's second year, so maybe the Nike money was crazy. But I was wondering, I'm sure they're betting a lot.

Is it Jordan's rich, or is it Jordan is not making a lot of money? But also, I don't give a fuck. I'll compete about it. It could be both, but he's also making a lot of money. And he's got like smart parents. Like his mom worked in a bank. Yeah. Right.

She's probably seeing people lose their money in the dumbest ways. Right. So she's like, we're not going to be stupid. And I forget what the father was. What did the father was what the father do i think construction or some shit like that because i know i'm not sure what he did but he was fucking sharp yeah he understood i mean you understood your kids you obviously understand your kids they're your kids but he understood how to motivate he's like you want to get michael do

anything just tell him he can't do it yeah and like he knew how to light the fire under that motherfucker like he knew sending him back into the house so that he could be with his older brother and do some of his older brother was just gonna drive michael crazy to the point where he was gonna get that much better to do it michael was like every time i was playing i was playing for my dad's affection yeah but maybe that was the only time like i've tried to understand Jordan's mentality, and maybe the only reason, maybe the only time he felt happiness was through victory. So maybe that's why he played so hard in meaningless games,

because he's like, I still have to win to feel happy. I don't feel happy yet. Oh, there's something fundamentally broken with him. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. But it's incredible to watch. Oh, yeah. Broken people are the best

broken in a way that makes you constantly win like what the that at all costs beautiful actually like that's amazing at all costs all right so let's let's get into the kraus thing because the the villain of this documentary is is jerry, who was the GM of the Bulls. Yeah. Now, the owner of the Bulls is Jerry Reinsdorf. Yes. I'm assuming at the time, Jerry was the owner and president. Meaning the president of a team handles things that are not only basketball related, but just all things related with the team.

Okay. Right? The GM handles only the basketball side of things. Right. So a GM will – obviously the president has say. Yeah. He signs off on the decisions of the GM, but the GM is like, who's going to coach? Who are we going to get to play on the team, et cetera?

I believe the president is not only all those things, but also how are we going to market the team how are we going to you know find ways to sell fucking jerseys what are we going to do for these night there are other things that are involved with the president so kraus is i guess the villain here kraus is very interesting and kind of unfairly painted in my opinion kind of at best i think okay we'll go into it you tell me why go now i'm curious to know why you think what was unfair and i think i know but i'm still curious the biggest knock on kraus yeah is um in my opinion the biggest thing you could take away from Kraus is he didn't draft Jordan. Okay. So the linchpin for all the other decisions that he made is Jordan, right?

He is the core of that team. He's what makes that team win. He's the engine that makes the car drive. Yeah. You still got to build a team around him. Yes. Jordan didn't win before kraus yes right yeah like he had other people on that team he had other coaches but they couldn't get the job

done granted he was much younger maybe he would develop into a better player 85 86 he came like right after jordan but yeah yeah it was after but he didn't draft Jordan right right which is very important he's a really interesting character because he comes from baseball who where he was a scout and then just asked Jerry Reinsdorf Jerry Reinsdorf also on the baseball team he was a scout for and they just asked him can I can I be GM now back in the day scouting was like the pinnacle yeah that's what mattered so if you were a scout, I guess that meant that you could be good at being a GM. Apparently, and I was asking around a bit yesterday, Kraus was way ahead of his time in terms of analyzing talent. Now, here's the thing that people don't get.

A GM's job is not to analyze superstars. Anybody can say that Giannis Antetokounmpo is amazing. GM's job is not to analyze superstars. Anybody can say that Giannis Antetokounmpo is amazing. Anybody can say that Michael Jordan is amazing. Yeah. A GM skill is in drafting, so you see it before they have it, and role players. That's the skill of GM is finding role players that fit with your superstars. Anybody can tell you Shaq is going to do well.

Kobe's going to do well. Kawhi's going to do well. Right. How do you find Ron Harper? Right. How do you get a 20-point-per-game score before he comes to the Bulls and know he's going to fit in that system? How do you find Tony Kukoc?

How do you find Pippen? How do you make the trade for Pippen? Do you know who he traded for Pippen? No. No! One of the greatest players in the history of the game, Scottie Pippen, was traded for a guy we don't fucking know. Seeing that talent.

Yeah. Right? So he had an undeniable ability to find talent. He was one of the first guys to get into analytics, things that people do now. Wingspan, hand size, shuttle drills, closing speed. Right. You know what I mean?

Like really getting into the almost like NFL type combine shit to truly analyze players and looking for an advantage anywhere he possibly could. The problem is in what the documentary shows is ego. Yes. Now, here's the thing about ego. Ego is not a one-way street usually. Yeah. Ego is a pinball machine.

And ego begets- That's a bar, yo. Ego begets ego. That's a bar. Right. Right? So when you have one ego fighting against another, that's what causes the meltdown. One ego is fine. Three, four, five egos, that's when shit starts to become troubling.

And what we're looking at when we're looking at the bulls is we're looking at a displacement of credit right and that's where people get upset it's not just jordan getting the credit kraus can live with jordan getting the credit it's phil getting credit right kraus is going nobody would know who phil jackson was if i didn't find him nobody would know who scotty pippen was if I didn't trade for him. Maybe they would. Nobody would know who Tony Kukoc was if I didn't go get him. Nobody would know Dennis Rodman. Well, yes, they would, but nobody would have given Dennis Rodman another chance if I didn't come in there and do it, right? So he really did orchestrate this team. Phil's getting all the

credit. Obviously, Jordan's getting the credit, but he's not getting credit. And when there's that displacement of ego, you got him coming out and you got him going, I want mine. The problem with Jerry Krause is that he'd never really experienced not having a Jordan. And at the end of the day, a Jordan is what makes shit move. Yeah, you are nothing without the Jordan. Exactly. It's easy to have ego when you've only experienced good times, when you've always been with a Jordan. Because you start going, well, I built it with Jordan. I'll build it with someone else.

I built this team. I could do it, right? When Phil and Jordan dig their heels into the mud or whatever that fucking saying is and say, nah, we're doing this. This is our last dance. The only equal opposite reaction to that for Jerry Krause is, yeah, it is yours. I'm blowing this thing up and I'm going to redo it without you guys to prove I can do it. You don't think Bill Belichick's trying to win this year?

So, oh yeah. Damn right he is. The two biggest, and you can maybe argue the bigger problem is reinsdorf but jerry kraus anybody who says he's an idiot he's not a good gm i can dismiss that person yeah your fatal flaw is like you said ego if i if i make millions of dollars and build an amazing mansion cool i did that if i burn the motherfucker down and lose all my money i'm an idiot yes there is i don't care if i made the money and got the mansion. I don't care if Jerry Krause put the places in there.

You have won five straight championships and you tell the coach, you're not coming back. I don't give a fuck if you go 82 and 0. Yeah. You're not coming back. This is your last year. Yeah. That is pure ego. You're burning the house down.

And for that, you are the villain. 100%. You just are the villain. Everything is a battle of egos. Greatness, if you're not as great as Jordan or Phil, and a GM in particular, greatness is saying, okay, I will swallow my ego. And if you can't swallow your ego amidst greater people with bigger egos, that's not a talent, especially not for GM, who by nature is behind the scenes.

Is Phil and Jordan not great by that definition because they couldn't swallow their ego no but they're greater if if they couldn't swallow their ego michael's greatness no but phil phil i know phil doesn't but he's my point is he knows how to deal with hold on hold on make your point but phil will swallow his ego for michael because he understands this is the greater person in this right but if you're saying the greater goal is to win and that's what greatness is about, then Phil would have swallowed his ego. I'm just saying by that definition, Phil would have swallowed his ego with Kraus and he would have kissed the ring a little bit. No, you should. You can.

But the more of the onus is on the person who is less great. That's the least crude. I guess the only way I can think of. Who decides greatness, right? Because Kraus is going. You know. Well know well technically there's no fill without kraus yeah that's cool so kraus is going i'm so great i found this diamond in the rough that nobody wanted yeah and that's your flaw and that's why the bulls haven't had success for 23 years because you thought that because you couldn't accept that okay i'm a really good gm

this is the greatest coach ever i found the greatest right right right i get what you're saying yes and it's easy i think it's easy for us to look back in history and go well that's the truth because phil went on to the lakers and he went and had success with the lakers etc and kraus really did nothing afterwards right but in the moment your kraus all you know is greatness and winning right you must believe in that moment that you're the shit the same way tom brady is going to tampa bay and going all i know is winning i'm gonna go to tampa bay and i'm just gonna take this team of people i've never played with and we're just gonna bust everybody's ass and belichick is also going right now thank god we got tom out of here he was the weak link i'm gonna get someone in here we're

actually gonna fucking win this year yeah right so you have that you carry that ego and rightfully so so when he's looking at phil he's going he ain't special jordan's doing all the heavy lifting here i'm the one that decided to put phil here and all these players that jordan's working with just do what the fuck i tell you. Why can't you kiss the ring? Everybody who's wrong thinks they're right in the moment. But here's the thing. If in history,

Phil went on to just continue to lose and Jerry went on to win, what would we be saying? Oh, Jerry was right. So in the moment, we don't know what's going to happen

in the future. We just got to operate with the egos they have. If we're analyzing it, you're right in terms of history. But let's analyze how they're

feeling in the moment because their behaviors are dictated not how the future is but how they're feeling in that moment i can empathize with the feelings that make a person wrong right the fact is you were wrong right but i mean like i get i get his mentality i get i can empathize with understanding yo i fucking found phil who the fuck is phil without me who is he how is he greater than me i found him you were wrong dead ass no no no again we're not discussing right or wrong we're discussing the reason for actions in the moment right so in the moment jerry was right i don't think so because it's almost like um if it's not broke don't fix it you have you he's assembled a great team right so like he could step away he should know like his ego should be like hey i know that this is me i don't need the approval of people telling me that this is me

and as a gm right here's the thing real quick here. Yes, understood, understood. But there is a give and take between everybody, right? And maybe Phil wasn't giving Jerry the credit that he needed. And if Phil is as savvy as we think he is, and he's all about Zen and this, that, the other, maybe the smart thing would be for the dynasty is to give jerry some of that credit if he was truly egoless i wish it would be phil's not egoless phil's and i know he's not i know i know he's not what i'm saying is the smart thing if we're talking about how to maintain the dynasty for so long right let's say i and i'm not like this but let's say i was like the all-seeing eye, right?

I go there and I go, hey, Phil, you know what Jerry needs? Jerry needs you to publicly go, hey, none of this would be here without Jerry. Jerry Krause, he got these players. He did this. Man, what a fucking guy he was. Gives him that little nibble on some credit. And then all of a sudden, life is good between Jerry and Phil if we're thinking big picture. If I'm Jerry Reinsdorf, the owner, and I'm smart, I'm not going to Kraus.

I'm going to Phil. And I'm going, listen, you know what this fat, short guy needs. He needs a little credit. Can you throw him a bone in an interview? Hey, Mike, do me a favor. Do me a favor. This guy's talented. He's going to find players that we didn't know were skilled, right? He's going to truly find guys. I think that he has skills. Is he as important as you guys? No, he's not. But's going to find players that we didn't know were skilled, right? He's going to truly find guys.

I think that he has skills. Is he as important as you guys? No, he's not. But you know what he wants? For that shit to keep going, he just wants a little fucking nibble. Just give them a little fucking nibble. I think you keep it together if you do that. I get what you're saying.

That's fine. I wish they went into that a little bit more. I think they might. I think also, though, a point I want to make, if you're the GM and you are by nature behind the scenes, the greatest GM is going to be egoless in the sense of like, I'll let them have theirs. I don't need the credit as much. In the same way an actor can get all the credit,

but it's a guy behind the scenes making a lot of magic happen. That guy behind the scenes is understanding, I got an ego, but his is more important to him. I'll feed his. Who won the championship last year? The NBA championship. Toronto Raptors. How many people know their GM?

Great GM. Pulled off a Kawhi trade. Got great role players. Right, right. Not many people know his name. We know Masai. Right. The president.

Right. I don't know the GM. I would also make the same argument, which was if you look at the coaches that have won championships in the last few years, they're all what? Egoists? First-year coaches. Okay. So if I'm a GM, I'm going, oh, coaches are meaningless.

I'll just throw anybody there, and then I'll win a championship. If the reason you're doing it is I'm not getting credit, that— Not saying that's the reason. What I'm saying is as a gm you're going oh i could just put a first year guy with no skill in there and they're gonna win a championship oh coaches are really just about who the gm chooses to execute the gm's plan and the coach is willing to do that is gonna win it no matter his skill level or uh time doing it if you are a gm of the warriors and you're looking at steve kerr like i mark jack you just took mark jackson's team and

you just won a championship with it and you tweaked some things it's not that big of a deal right that's you could maybe you could be right if steph curry says i'm not playing for another coach you're you're here he didn't just he didn't just throw throw out Phil when he made that move. He knew beforehand, I am getting rid of Phil and the guy we know now is the greatest player of all time. Right, right, right.

And then his number two, who he loves more than anybody, I'm already trying to get rid of this guy, Scottie Pippen. Right, right. So you are burning the whole thing to the ground and banking on, I can rebuild all of this.

And the bigger problem than him is Jerry Reinsdorf to side with the fucking gm in what world are you siding with one gm being able to find the greatest player of all time again the coach that he only wants to play for who we're already putting in the echelon as the greatest coaches of all time and arguably the greatest number two of all time so and again we can't talk about this outside of we can't talk about this given what we know we have to talk about this given what they know in the time sure if you're an owner and a rookie gm the guy who just came in completely flips around your franchise granted you have michael jordan but you don't know what that means, right?

I think as an owner, you're going, well, Michael Jordan's eventually going to be done. But I can have this GM here that built this fucking team and got this coach out of nowhere and got all these players to come play. And he figures out how to use tall white guys like nobody in the NBA figured out how to use tall white guys, like the Bill Cartwrights, the Bill Wenning, the Luke Longlees and shit like that. He could figure out all this shit. I think I understand the business decision of trusting that guy's instincts because that guy's instincts have worked.

I think we're both right like we're both sides are right and equal points but like you can't really decide who's the worst or the who the bigger ego like they no no i'm not i'm not saying that i'm just saying it would have yeah it's listen it's bad on. And I'm not saying that what Kraus did was right. I just think that people underestimate how valid his feelings were in that moment. It's like all of us are looking at Jordan as this guy that we bought sneakers from. He's the greatest ever and all this kind of shit like that. Kraus is looking at this guy like, oh, yeah, he just kept losing to get bounced out of the first round before I got here. Well, now I'm here and now he's a fucking winner because that's what happens when i put a team around you

and nobody can by themselves can win a championship that's what he's looking at it like i found the guys that make you the greatest player of all time i just think that by nature that is a pretty egoless job and if you're going to let your ego dictate your decisions, you ruined what you built. GMs, and I know this because I'm a fucking cowboy fan. The whole reason we lost the dynasty is because the owner made himself GM, had an ego, exact same thing. I just want credit from the coach. I just want Jimmy Johnson to say, hey, Jerry helped me a little bit. But what if Jerry won all those rings?

And what if it was his decisions that won all those rings? But it wasn't. But what if it was? Because with Kraus, it was. What if it was? I don't know. I don't think you can say that definitively. Yeah, I don't think you can say that because he hasn't won since. It was Kraus.

Tim Floyd tanked. It's a team. He didn't find another great player after. No, no, no. I agree with you. Right. Again, you guys are looking at this back through history. You have to look at things as people feel in the moment.

My point is about the egos. we're talking about my point is if you're a good gm you still gotta step back from everybody got fucking ego right everybody right now has people in their dms right all of us have people in our dms telling us how great we are telling us how amazing we are telling us how nothing would operate without us right that's what we all have yeah and we like to believe that a little bit we listen to those fucking things especially when we're feeling down and we're feeling a certain way we listen to that shit right and we all over value our importance right because in the moment we're really going oh shit i fucking got this right history decides what jordan is and what jordan is to that franchise

uh we know it right now but it's easy for us to know it nah in the moment that coming off your fifth title you know that he's the best player yes you do ever yes you do but you also have to make decisions for the future of your franchise and if jordan doesn't want to play after this next year he's already left once. Maybe there's rumors. He's like, man, I got a year or two left. Should we start blowing this shit up? Should we start trying to get value

for these players? Not off the title. I agree. I agree. I agree. 100%. It's all ego. But what I'm saying is ego begets ego.

Ego begets ego. And I think what you're trying to say is Jordan and Phil aren't blameless. Jordan, Phil, pippen everybody deserves some blame everybody got ego here the majority of the blame i think still falls on kraus i don't want to talk about too much more because we've already gone so much but i think the majority of the blame still does lie at his feet especially if yeah if you're winning titles let's just ride this motherfucker till the wheels fall off like let's let him go and the second he

loses he's out fuck this guy the second he loses i'm firing him yeah then okay your ego got in the way who knows what could have been but you want six of the last eight years five of the last seven years y'all were together yeah five of the last years you you had jordan you want right let's go let's just keep going look i agree yeah the thing is jordan is the rare talent here and And obviously everybody knows this. It's an easy argument to make. But without Jordan, none of the other things work. Without Jordan, Scottie Pippen is not one of the 50 greatest players of all time, in my personal opinion.

Of course. Now, with him, he is. Yeah. I don't know any other player out there that exists like that. LeBron can make people better but which one of lebron's teammates are the 50 greatest players of all time duane wade was there when he got there he was already that i think he make i think he makes ad more lethal i think ad's stock in history is going to go up if if he got to play with lebron long term especially because now you're getting

deeper in the playoffs every year. What you're doing, there's more of a microscope on it. But yeah, Michael, and you had to be able to handle Michael. Yeah. That's what made Scottie so perfect, that he can take a slap from the face from Oakley, and he can still keep going. And that's why MJ was able to elevate him so much,

because he could stand up to whatever MJ was bringing. He could take it. Yeah, and he didn't seem scared scared he didn't seem scared of jordan and jordan doesn't seem like he doesn't baby brother him no jordan is like a lot of respect for pippen like a lot of respect i mean he did something corny he was like that's why i think he's my best teammate ever it's like yeah no shit who's better luke longley is better like you didn't have any other team teammates he did say one thing though that was like there is no michael jordan you can't say michael jordan without saying i think that's his way of really giving it up like he's trying to give it up yeah and he always really tries to give it up for scotty i think he put scott i bet if you watched the 10 years before

that he put scotty through some shit but i think when you're seeing him at this point they want to see this the guy why are we not seeing it and you never see him criticize scotty you're seeing him at this point, they want to see the guy. Why are we not seeing it? And you never see him criticize Scott. You never see him yelling at Scott, even when he's being critical of the way Scott. He handled the arrangement when he was like staying out or choosing to get the surgery. Like Jordan could have leaned the fuck in. He could have been screaming during practices. He could have been screaming to the to the press and all that kind of shit. Even post even in the interview when you're watching him, he's like, man, he did something selfish.

But he didn't trash Scottie. He loves Scottie. He really appreciates Scottie. Maybe Jordan knows how great Scottie was. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Scottie would have been higher on the list of 50 greatest. And maybe he knows Scottie sacrificed his own greatness so that they could win all those championships.

I remember when Jordan was retired, Scottie Pippen was, I think he was the MVP of the All-Star game, I think. He was like, he was dominating. He took them to the conference semifinals. Semis or the conference finals? I think they lost to the Knicks, actually, the year the Knicks lost to the Rockets. Then you guys knocked them out, and I'm pretty sure the conference semifinals. Now he took them to the conference finals.

Say again? I say he saw his importance when Pippen was sitting out from the injury and how much they were struggling. Yeah. Yeah. Like that right there shows like, oh, shit, I need this guy. They opened the season 0-4 on the road. I need him. Yeah.

It's not like he's just a good role player. No, I actually need him to win. Yeah. And they also said like Jordan. And whose ego gets fed off of that as well? Pippen's. Scottie's. Krause's.

Yeah, you can't do this without the pieces I give you. Oh, I put in place. Okay, so he's saying. you can't do this without the pieces I give you you can't do this without the moves I make you like it when fucking John Paxson

hits a jumper yeah you need shooters around you because they're going to double you in the final you know what I'm saying but anyway but go on

what were some of like the funny memes or shit like that you saw online about this did you see anything I didn't see any that were I saw like the funny memes or shit like that you saw online about this did you see anything i didn't see any that were i saw like a couple of funny ones like the blazers fans how they felt uh for them picking sam bowie over michael yeah like just like the crying memes

and all that type of stuff that's the jordan crying me yeah and then um that's when you realized pippin in his prime would have got that full stimulus check. Yeah, that's funny. Okay. So Jordan's effect on the league, right? Yeah. This is the craziest thing that I think people don't realize. It's like, and why Jordan's ego? I feel like he's humble.

I feel like Jordan, even as huge as his ego is, he's actually humble because everybody is getting paid because of Jordan now. He changed the world. Son, yes, he changed the world. I'm just talking about basketball players. I'm just talking about LeBron James. I'm talking about all of his, like, Scottie Pippen. I'm talking about Charles Barkley. All of his friends and all that kind of shit.

You can act like you're his contemporary. He's looking at you and he's like, I made the CBA increase the salary cap three times i did everything that you get is because of me you're all eating off of me not only is the bulls organization everybody around you is eating off of me you got sneakers because i got a sneaker and that was what i was going to respond to it when they said like lebron got tristan thompson 80 million dollars no jordan got tristan thompson 80 million dollars jordan got lebron a billion dollars from nike jordan made every dollar you make possible like i think magic had sneaker a sneaker and i think bird had a sneaker but i don't know who the fuck chuck taylor was was he

a basketball player some white guy probably was he i don't know charles taylor the third or some shit like that some shit right so it's like but jordan had the signature shoe and now you see the signature shoe yeah right this is something that happened to put perspective into the amount of money that's been generated i think last year jordan brand made 3.6 billion dollars nike basketball made 1.8 billion what son jordan's lasting legacy this is the thing people realize we'll remember jordan as a basketball player his lasting legacy will be jordan brand it will be basketball sneakers the kids now that are watching this documentary that's great son the kids now that are watching this documentary kids in college don't even remember Kobe's heyday. That's the thing people don't realize. Kobe and the Lakers

Kobe and the Lakers with Shaq the three-peat happened in 2000. That's 20 years ago. If you're in college right now, you don't remember Kobe's greatness with Shaq. Yeah, you don't remember the Lakers dynasty. You weren't alive for the Lakers dynasty. You weren't alive for it, dude. How fucking nuts is this? So, Jordan

Brand is going to be the legacy of Michael Jordan, not Jordan the player. That's why alive for the latest you were alive for it dude how fucking nuts is this so jordan brand is gonna be the legacy of michael jordan not jordan the player that's why this documentary was it's actually better that it dropped later first of all we're more interested in documentaries in general yes second of all we every kid has no they never saw mike play you can watch his games on nba classic but it's like how into a game can i get when it's this low definition ass quality yeah there's no stakes whatever then you watch this and you're like oh that's what everybody was talking about and also it's cool for us because we take for granted how transparent lebron is now how transparent kobe was yeah everybody got twitter everybody's talking to you all the time in the 90s we there's so many stories in that documentary i never saw because we didn't

have a local we didn't live in chicago so many of those little snippets you just saw like on chicago's local sports or whatever yeah and sports center if you had cable but then you got school and all this shit like it's all getting in the way i love the moment with the two little kids they were like oh our parents asked do we want christmas gifts or jordan like that great fucking choice white kids yeah yeah that's crazy yeah it was there was um i love what they did like the way they positioned jordan in a documentary my one well we'll get to criticisms afterward we can close up with criticisms but But I love how they positioned Jordan. Like when they put people, famous people in the pictures, the chyrons that they use for them.

A chyron is like the description of the famous person. So it was like Barack Obama, resident of Chicago. Yeah, former resident of Chicago. Former resident of Chicago. Bill Clinton, former governor of Arkansas. Yeah. Right? Now, they did that because Bill Clinton was going going to see scotty pippen play for

university of central arkansas there was at the time yeah they were like how does this person relate to the place in which they were so obama was a resident of chicago when he was watching uh jordan but that's how you know jordan's greatness you have two former presidents in episode one of his documentary that ain't even his documentary it's two former presidents and they don't even label the motherfuckers as president jordan is the goat of this documentary and everybody else was just a guy everybody was a guy yeah right there's just a part of this fucking ecosystem that was thriving off of what jordan was fucking ecosystem that was thriving off of what jordan was i mean oh dude i remember i remember watching this one this one part of it and like everything started to make sense for me uh in

this one part uh it was a part about his minute restriction okay yeah so he got to play 14 minutes a game and they'll usually play seven the first half and the only reason they made that compromise is because jordan had an injury that he's supposed to sit out the whole year yeah he asked to go do rehab in north carolina and then he just starts playing five on five yeah comes back tells them and like what the fuck you're not playing in games and he's like no i'm playing in games and he just causes such a fucking ruckus yeah that they're like all right fine we will give you 14 minutes a game yeah from complaining he got 14 yeah that's why he got 14 now go ahead and to keep it clear the only they did it is because they wanted to tank so they

could get a lottery pick. Okay. Right? Like, that's why they did it. Right? They're like, okay, the foot is fucked up. He's healed. He could come back and play, but we might as well just take the season off and get a

lottery pick. Yeah. Probably genius move by Kraus. I don't know who they end up getting with that pick. Maybe it is Scottie. No, it's not Scottie that year, I don't think. I don't know who it is. But they end up getting not a lottery pick, but they get a no it's not scotty that year i don't think i don't know who it is but they end up getting not a lottery pick but they get a better pick because you know they barely eked into the playoffs right they got that eighth seed with 30 fucking

wins they went 30 and 52 that being said jordan makes playoffs this what's really interesting what he basically said to the coach was he goes yo just put me in at the most important times of the game and i'm gonna try to eke out victories, and I'm just going to go ham for those seven minutes at a time or 10 minutes at a time or whatever the fuck it is. Right? When I was a Knicks fan, the Bulls were just destroying my Knicks. Yeah.

The most terrifying point in the game was eight minutes left in the fourth quarter. Jordan would rest at the end of the third, and that rest would continue into the fourth, and then he would come out at around eight minutes left in the fourth quarter. Jordan would rest at the end of the third, and that rest would continue into the fourth, and then he would come out at around eight minutes left in the fourth quarter, and then he would just go berserk. Yeah. And I remember being fearful. It didn't matter how much we were up.

When Jordan enters the game, he can do whatever the fuck he wants, and you're just trying to survive for eight minutes. And I'm watching this documentary, and I'm going to go, oh, that's where he learned how to do it he had seven minutes left he said put me out the most important time during the games and i'm gonna attack attack attack attack relentlessly i'm gonna attack relentlessly and i'm gonna try to get our team to win and i was like oh my fucking god that's where he learned it that's where he learned the seven minute non-stop put up as many fucking points as you possibly can not saying he didn't know how to score already but that's where he learned the time is now this is the only time i have to affect the game

and i'm gonna do it in this short uh this short spurt and i don't give a fuck my teammates don't touch the rock this is time for me to touch the rock yeah and i was like oh that's why you fucking destroyed my necks over and over again. You know, as crazy as we sleep on, you know, he's like one of the most athletic players, whatever. He's in the same way LeBron is a physical freak. Yes. Jordan is right there.

Like there was a highlight they showed of him at UNC where his head hits the backboard when he blocks somebody's shot. That's fucking insane. Yeah. There was a shot they showed specifically when they're talking about how powerful he was, where he's just stretching and you look at his quadricep oh yeah and you're like what the fuck is that is that a horse physical muscle yeah it's legit like looking at a horse dog yeah and it's so rare that people that are like are that physically gifted learn the other

intangibles of the game yeah that's the thing that's like that's crazy right it's because like um you know oftentimes like a great shooters never learn how to dribble because you don't need to why would i need to dribble and get to the basket if i could just pull up and shoot i'm good great dribblers never learn how to shoot why would i need to learn how to shoot if i could just cross you up and get to the basket right he's the cross section of both of those things he's a guy who developed an amazing mid-range jump shot because that was the shot of the time and he could get to the basket at will he was unstoppable like unstoppable force and he was met with like an unstoppable coaching force in phil who was not only genius with the x and o's but learned how to like motivate them like i thought it was so fucking brilliant that phil found a way to create a chip on their shoulder after they had

won with jordan five straight championships yeah not five straight because i guess jordan came back halfway through that one season but they won three then jordan comes back and they win two more and they already have the greatest team ever 72 and 10 they already have great team ever right you have no motivation at that point in time yeah you've already won enough like yeah jordan's motivated but everybody's like yeah we're used to winning i did i accomplished my dream i have money i have success i have all these things and phil finds a way to create a chip on their shoulder like they're the underdogs again people are going to the season like of course they're gonna win i mean it's michael jordan whatever

team michael jordan's on is gonna win the championship. That's how it works. And he constructs this device, the last dance. There are bad guys out there. The organization doesn't want us to win. The GM doesn't want us to win. The owner doesn't want us to win. They're going to blow us all up. So let's take them down.

Let's shove this in their fucking face. This is our last chance to win. Let's go out winners. And he chose the word dance specifically. because a dance doesn't work if everybody's not on the same page even if it's two people if we're not both in sync and in step the dance falls apart yeah this is a dance this is a team all of us need to be on board moving in step that's how we that's how we accomplish our goal i don't know if he said that in the doc but i i think he might have mentioned it but the word dance was like that was a very specific word criticisms i i feel like i need to watch it again because the first time i'm

literally just kind of like scared watching the fucking thing like jordan's a killer that's going to jump through the screen yeah and it's just so intense and like i've been waiting for this for so long yeah and so i didn't like grab on to any real criticism. Yeah. That I have. What was yours? I don't like that it jumps around in timeline. The timeline thing.

Actually, yeah, that was a little bit annoying. Don't like the timeline thing. Now, I can understand it because I know what happened and I existed during these times. If you don't know jordan like my girl has no fucking clue what's going on right with 97 91 like these people aren't really aging so you can't really tell based on how they look like i could you maybe i look at jordan's hair and i go okay he doesn't have hair i do think though for a documentary you kind of need to draw people in with oh we're winning and then go back and forth i think like the oj timeline i think i don't think it went chronologically in my opinion nope also my other biggest criticism and they tie

together is i don't give a fuck about the bulls i don't give a fuck about any other player i don't give a fuck about scotty i don't give a fuck about paxton i don't give a fuck about bill wennington i don't give a fuck about none of these motherfuckers right i don't care about rodman's story i don't care about any of their fucking stories what i wanted i did i i feel a little bit bamboozled i don't want a bulls documentary i don't even care about your last season documentary i thought it was jordan doc everybody's calling it the jordan doc yeah i i did too i didn't we called it the jordan doc he's all over it right jordan agreed on the footage jordan jordan jordan right what i want is the life work of michael jordan i want

you to start and i don't care if it's 40 episodes i want you to start in college and i want you to take me from college to the final season don't talk about the wizards but i want you to take me that final fucking shot that he hits to seal it game six yeah game six against the jazz give me that and also we forget because the shot is so like prolific iconic yeah he ripped carl malone of course and then dribbled it down the court and hit the game of course absolutely like the he also made the defensive play it was lebron's block and the shot was the stop and the shot that's why he's the goat because he's both of you yeah yeah but like the fact that i gotta listen to a storyline about dennis roth don't get

me wrong it's gonna be entertaining it's gonna be great but for me i want a box set of michael jordan that i could hand to my kid and go hey this is the greatest player of all time if you want to know why just pop that in watch this for about 40 hours and you'll get a good idea of what's going on i hope jordan in 15 20 years when the next guy we're talking about is the greatest, I hope he just says, you know what? Let's just talk about me and my life

for 20 episodes and I want you all to understand what's going on here. Because I could really give a fuck about the Bulls GM and present. Like those things can be storylines within the Jordan story, but I don't care about Jerry Reinsdorf

or Jerry Krause and his stupid fucking eye. I don't care about him at all, right? What I do care about is Michael fucking Jordan and these other people can intersect his life. But let me just follow this Jordan story. Let me, if you don't talk about the season where he averaged 37 points,

like I need just that. Remember we averaged 37 fucking points? I need only that. What is happening in the league? What are people saying around the world? What are teams saying as they're playing him? You average 37 points a fucking game? If you don't give me something on just that season, I'm going to be upset.

Jordan hasn't been super transparent. I knew this was a Bulls documentary going on. I thought they actually did a good job of making it 50% about Jordan. Like the Scottie Pippen backstory is five minutes. Yeah. Let's get the fuck out of here. Jordan, we just keep going back to it, back to it, back to it. I think they do a good job of saying, hey, we followed the whole team with cameras.

The whole team, there was a lot of drama. No one cares. But it's about this guy. No one cares about your whole team. Everything else is B-line, but they make the A-line Jordan. Yeah. Which I think is fine. One thing I do want to know i want to

know the transition from jordan as a rookie who doesn't smoke doesn't drink doesn't know what to do in this situation doesn't go out country kid to the maniacal fucking killer who will access and gamble and drink and fuck everybody i'm curious to know what that what that evolution was and if it was necessary for him to be great because part of me thinks it might be yeah he just needs a bluff steam and there's like uh his tim grover his trainer wrote a book and he talks about how like all these guys have a dark side and you got to tap into that dark side to be great tiger jordan like the greatest of the great have a dark side and they tap into it and I'm psychologically curious about that and like what is that transformation walk me like walk me through what you're thinking at each stage as you're like like did you gradually get into like I'll drink a

little bit I'll go out a little I want to see it too because it's seven years later in 92 he's a savage dude they're gambling he's drinking he's fucking remember the olympics magic is like i don't know how this guy never sleeps we go out we party all night and then he just comes and fucking shows up earliest to practice like i don't get it yeah and i'm curious to know that shift because he seems like the sweetest kid yeah the letter he wrote his mom is adorable yeah just a fucking hey mom god will bless you i love you yeah just like a fucking and he's still the best player in the country yeah and i'm curious to know is that necessary what was that just in general i wonder if it's uh because of the pressure like now you have the

entire league depending on you you are the face of the league and now it's not just nationally it's internationally and now nba is a legitimate sport that america cares about and the world cares about and i wonder if you need to blow off that scene because throughout his career as far as we're concerned jordan was incredibly professional like every time he's talking reporters i thought this was unbelievable every single time right after they win a championship they ask him are you there you know there's talks about blowing up the team and these kind of things. And he has a professional response about it. You would think that he would go, motherfucker, I just won.

Can I enjoy this victory? Nope. He was on his P's and Q's. This guy was so sharp, so fucking eloquent, and so composed in every moment of his life. I think the cost of that is you need to blow off steam some way. And maybe it's gambling. Maybe it's fucking bitches. Maybe it's getting a little drunk.

But you need to. It's like, I think there's a reason why every time we see Dave Chappelle, he's shit-faced. Like, I've never seen Dave Chappelle sober. And I think the cost of being Dave Chappelle is paid through numbing that pressure with either weed or alcohol or smoking cigarettes nonstop. I think that's what it is, man. I really think when you have that much fucking pressure, dude. Yeah, I'm just curious to know because that motherfucker is a killer. I want to know.

I want him to talk about emptying the tank. There are guys that empty the tank. Few people know, like women who have kids understand what it is to like use every single ounce of your being to like go through pregnancy and like push out a child. Right. Yeah. They understand what it is to empty the tank and you get a fucking human

being. And I think certain athletes can empty the tank. Kobe could empty the fucking tank. Jordan, I think was the epitome of empty ali empty the tank right lebron can do it no i think he can't i think game seven against the celtics where he played all 48 he can do it on occasion i think game seven oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah okay yeah it can happen it's not a whenever i. Yeah, he can't tap into it when he wants to. Yeah, I think, yeah. Or he might be afraid to.

Like the cab season when his mom was getting stroked out by Delonte West. He couldn't empty the tank, right? Delonte emptied his, right? But Jordan was struggling, right? Not Jordan, but LeBron was struggling, right? I want to know the cost of emptying the tank like i want to hear jordan go like every time you empty the tank you lose a little bit of that tank for good like every time you go down to zero on the power bar the power bar shrinks a

little as well like i want to like how many tour de france's can you fucking do you know you hear like people go every tour de france you do takes a little away from your life i haven't heard that yeah they say like you lose years of your life doing a tour de france right now who the fuck knows like you also gain years of your life because you're in such great shape that you're gonna be able to deal with these things doesn't matter but i'm curious like what does it feel like to completely empty the tank and like what is the cost of that long term i think we're seeing the cost i mean he looks terrible he fucking looks shit like his eyes look horrible always looks like jaundiced like yellow why the yellow yeah i don't know i can't explain that i don't know what the fuck that is because i thought

it was jaundice but it's like nah he's, he's still alive. His liver is in written condition. He talks like he's fine. He seems like he's fine, but there's something going on. Yeah. And he's taking care of that drink. That drink is tall, and it is brown liquor.

And throughout the interview, that shit goes down. Oh, okay. I was looking at it. I thought he kept filling it up. I thought it was just always full. Nah, there's a shot where it's low as fuck. Yeah, I was looking at that shit.

But I'm just curious about that. Like, guys really can fucking empty the tank. Because I remember even like playing ball growing up, like, I always felt like

I could give more than you. You know what I mean? Like, I was just willing to just give more. I'll sacrifice more. I'll be more exhausted. I'll do whatever it takes

until like, to quit. Like, I thought I could, that's something I could control. Right? And i want to know the extreme of that yeah like what is it like when you have nothing yeah like when people run marathons and shit to me it was never impressive right because i was like all right it hurts all right so it just hurts and then you know like i don't know like my girl runs and my dad runs.

But, like, I'm like, all right, so you're in pain. Like, you deal with that. It's not that impressive. It's not. Like, you just deal with it. Like, the only ones I'm impressed by are the ones who, like, make good time running a marathon. I'm the only one impressed by the swimming one. Oh, the triathlon.

That shit. Yeah. The Ironman where you do all three? Yeah, yeah. I should have. Biking's stupid You get to sit Swimming is the one

That impresses me Because if you stop You die Oh okay I see your point You could drown Like when you stop running Now you're standing

Right like The second you stop running I think that's a good point You're chilling Yeah But swimming You you could die. So that one is always super impressive, especially when they're open ocean. That one, I'm like, oh, boy, you can't empty the tank swimming.

You cannot do it. The cost of emptying the tank swimming is death. You can empty the tank running. You see motherfuckers stop running and they fall down and there's nothing left. I need Jordan to explain that. And when he emptied it the most, who he gave everything to. Was it the Pistons? Like who did he have to dig the deepest to beat?

They might talk about, because in this year, Bill Simmons wrote about it back when he was with ESPN years ago. And I always remember he talked about game seven against the Pacers. i'm pretty sure him and scotty he's like you just looked at them they had nothing to play for but they're exhausted like their hands are on their knees which you almost never saw from jordan just looking wiped out yeah and the only reason they had to win was we just can't lose there's nothing we got five championships and that might have been a game and it'll get talked about throughout this thing so i'm curious to know if he's if he did feel like he emptied the tank if he did is he willing to admit it did he feel like though this is game seven in indiana like this ain't necessarily i'm pretty sure it's indiana and this ain't necessarily going our way i don't think it was at home

but like i'm curious to know if that was the game where he was like i had to fucking give everything man i just hope we learn more about it yeah i hope i want to know what's going on with phil jackson because they kind of just brush over that it's like yo this is your last season why phil offers very little that was one thing i noticed phil offers very little in his confessional yeah he's not that's like one criticism actually now that i'm thinking about it i remember being like phil you it's like you're intentionally not giving us much. Phil is an interesting dude, and he is filled with fucking ego, man. Phil's got a lot of ego. I mean, that's why he got ran out of New York, and I respect Phil's decision.

But he basically was like, I make the decisions, not Dolan for the Knicks. Yeah. And Dolan was like, no, my spies make the decisions. Steve Mills, who was going to be forced to work with you, was going to really make a decision. He was just going to be here. And he was like, I'm out. You choose me or Mello.

I'm out. And this happened to him as well with the Bulls. Right? He got his ego. Krause, I guess, wanted him maybe to do certain things, trade certain players, make certain moves, kiss the ring. He didn't want that shit to happen. And I respect it.

I hope they explain that. That's what I want to know. But Phil is like, how do you break up the best team? Well, here's the thing that people don't realize, right? It's like the NBA is changing, right? Positions are starting to evolve a little bit. You're getting a Scottie Pippen type of guy who's like long, right? Kind of positionless.

Kind of positionless, right? But you also have to look at the other people. Like who was their point guard? Ron Harper. Ron Harper. Ron Harper was long. So Kraus is redefining basketball. I know it seems like I'm stroking Kraus, and I'm doing it a little bit extra because everybody's going to shit so much on Kraus.

So I'm trying to, like, balance a little bit. But, like, Ron Harper was, what, 6'4", I think? 6'4", probably. Maybe 6'5". But, like, legit kind of tall. what, six? Six-four, I think. Six-four, probably. Maybe a six, maybe six-five. But like legit kind of tall, long, right? The tall white guys that they would get, right? The Luke Longlees, the Bill Wennington, I think his name is. Bill Wennington, Bill Cartwright.

And Bill Cartwright, right? Like they kind of found a way to use useless tall guys. They traded Oakley for Cartwright. But the kind of unskilled tall guys, but they could kind of pass the ball. They were like skilled, but just weren't that good. They figured that out

before any other team in the league figured it out. And that was a huge advantage because it worked perfectly in the triangle. Once other teams started to figure out, it was easier, is easier to compete with them.

See, I was also going to ask you, do you think the triangle, do you think they got the personnel to fit the triangle because yes brian shaw was the point guard in la point guard isn't incredibly important in the triangle but i do think you need to be able to defend longer the passing big man is important in the triangle because they'll have the ball you know who's a great passer shack yeah under Yeah. Right? So the passing big event with decent ball handling so they could move because it was a pivotal position. But the big point guard was great for defensive purposes too.

Now you don't have some like 5'11", 6'0 point guard who's good at like dribbling and can like create offense. No, no. The offense can be created by Mike and we're going to pass the ball around here. But now I got another 6'4", massive wingspan. I got the most skilled player in the NBA. That's it. I needed to be able to defend anybody exactly switch i dare you to switch yeah now you got ron harper on you yeah before you had a guy six six now you got a six five yeah good luck yeah

when you switch and john stockton's on you bully ball yeah not saying john stockton wasn't a great defender but still it was it was really brilliant what phil. And I was thinking, I was like, why did he know how to use these tall guys who were kind of skill-less, if you will? And then I realized, oh, shit, that's what Phil was. God bless his soul when he played for the Knicks and he won them championships. He was the tall, kind of useless guy. Long as fuck. Long as fuck, scrappy fuck. Scrappy, could defend,

rebound. You know who else could do that? Every big man you ever had. And Dennis Robman. Yeah. Dude, putting that together called Phil or Kraus,

but getting a guy on that team who was going to try his fucking hardest, rebound, defend his ass off, but didn't need touches. Yeah. I mean mean that is massive yeah because how are you going to compete with another guy who needs them touches oh yeah

charles barkley if he was on the team i need my touches touch i need touch i'm a star scotty pippen was great because he didn't need his touches and he got some when he was he'll get his touches yeah but he doesn't need his he. He trusts, I will get my touches. This is the guy. My job is to help the guy. Yeah. And that's fucking, that's an incredible talent to have in and of itself. And everybody, to your credit, to what you were saying,

everybody on that organization that realized this is the guy, Jordan's the guy, and my job is to help the guy succeeded that's exactly what i was gonna say the one guy who didn't realize that yeah is the one who ends up blowing it up yeah but at the end of the day you need a jordan for success now that jordan can be kobe it can be kawaii but you need that to get to the fucking promised land yeah and the guys on that team they were willing to sacrifice their ego and there were moments where they didn't pippen came out right he's like no i want my contract i'm gonna get my surgery he had his ego flare he tried you know he acted up etc but ultimately he realized michael jordan is michael jordan yeah and this is not possible without michael jordan you know it's also interesting i remember that little just little video clip you see all the time when uh

jordan's there there's rumors he's thinking about coming back and then pippen's on the bench at a bulls game and he just points to the camera and then lifts up his shoe and then points to the jump man icon and then does like a come come hither motion like come back jordan this is jordan sat out for a year second year there's rumors jordan might be coming back jordan might be coming back pippen looks at the camera during the game says jordan come back he always knew he was always willing to swallow the ego and say y'all i'm the guy right now but we're not winning jordan come back now i want to win is that credit to pippen for having some humility? Or is that credit to Jordan for being so great

that even the most alpha males of alpha males check their own ego around him? I think it's a credit to Pippen because at that point, I think Jordan has that ability, but at that point, Jordan is gone. You could just not say anything. But Pippen is like is like no i want to win there's no reason to defer to a guy's ego if he's nowhere in the vicinity yeah he made it a point to

say hey come back i'm your i'm still that's a big like isn't that jordan's greatness that is jordan's greatness to make somebody say hey i need you yeah but it also takes greatness it takes ego it's being swallowed and that is a form of greatness to say yo you know what yeah this is the guy and i need this guy yeah no i agree i agree with you there i agree with you there scotty was able to swallow it he had a gm's what the ego gm should have yeah 100 but jordan yes scotty was able to saw but jordan did have such greatness that no matter what team he was on, whenever he was playing, eventually everyone fell in line. There wasn't much insubordination with Jordan, right? It was like a couple weeks, he would establish dominance and everybody knew that was in that room.

This is the greatest player and I need to assist him in winning. Another thing to that point, and this is country ass jordan still had that mentality he talked about his rookie year with the bulls he said i needed to find out in the first couple weeks and then go after who the leader was and then go after him yeah and it was like yo you're a fucking killer even as a country ass backward ass dude i just didn't know nothing yeah i'm still the guy i need to find out who's the guy and then how do i take his spot i love how they like position him as like this country backward as do it's like both of his parents were professionals

they were making good money he went to an elite institution yeah he's not an idiot but just like idiot by any i i took him as from brooklyn like i took him as naive as like he's sheltered a bit so what's interesting to me is that did you notice his voice change yeah jordan when he's first interviewed i think it's in north carolina he sounds like i don't know it's he's just kind of his voice is like super how would you describe it well i mean he sounded more country like a little country and a bit more innocent yeah country is his voice hadn't fully dropped yet, like whatever. Within a few years, he had polished up his voice. It was professional media trained. And that takes intelligence to understand what comes with that.

There is to go, you know what? In order for me to communicate what I want to communicate, but also in order for me to get the most market share I could possibly get and be the most friendly to advertisers and lead an organization, I need to speak a certain way. Yeah. If I'm out here cussing, if I'm out here speaking with like Southern slang, all that kind of stuff like that, I might scare off some advertisers. I might scare off these people. Or if I want to lead the world in this new sport, I will assume that position. Like when he was in front of the camera,

he was making jokes, but they were like highbrow sarcasm. Like the joke about the Cubs. He goes, what was the joke about the Cubs? The Cubs have been rebuilding for 42 years. The Cubs have been rebuilding for 42 years. Highbrow sarcastic joke.

When he was not on camera, if you will, just short fat jokes with Kraus. You know i'm saying like he knew he could he could code switch if you will he could go from corporate jordan to ball busting yeah you know on the courts it was just it was it was great i'm looking for next episode i hope they don't focus too much on dennis robin his fucking makeup and shit i could care less I really could care less. He's going to get a story. Yeah.

I got to know that story too, son. I don't care. That's the weird shit, son. It's weird, but I don't care. Just give me Jordan. I don't care about anything else. I'm not wearing Rodman sneakers to this day. You know what I mean?

Everybody wears fucking makeup now. Let's get Jordan in there. All right. If you have to guess, why is Rodman the way he is? Oh, Robin grew up fucked up. Yeah. But I mean like,

what, what do you think is the biggest moment? Like the traumatic moment? I think he talks about no father really affecting him. Oh yeah. I'm thinking Dallas. I'm thinking he got diddled as a kid. Maybe quite possibly.

Yeah. Here's a big one to diddle. Oh yeah. Yeah. Before he, it's a big kid to diddle before he grew but even they you got to get them real young because they even they they grow fast like nba players are usually tall when they're young son when jordan's like oh yeah no shut up but what i think like five inches i'm like

why hasn't that happened to me yeah pippin grew from motherfuckers like just pippin grew in college yo yeah five inches in one year you know i think it was pippin yeah growth hormones no i mean like that's he's sharing food with 12 other kids uh and you know poor family in arkansas he goes to university he's probably eating like full meals of like protein and like good food for the first time in his life and you i mean that happened to my brother my brother went to a rehab when he was 17 years old grew five inches he was eating fucking cereal and like pasta every single night when he was with us because my parents don't cook they're just ordering bullshit and uh he goes and eats vegetables for the first like a straight year he grows five inches in a fucking year at 17 years old or 18 years old. Fuck. Food changes shit. Scottie Pippen, if he probably ate good shit his entire life,

would be 72. Like, he grew five inches at 18, and then another few inches after that. If he ate good shit his whole life, forget it. Fuck, man. Dude, why do you think they give such bad food to the ghetto? They don't want y'all to be too tall. Son, I see.

I didn't have vegetables until college. Gotta give y'all Sour Patch Kids. They give y'all Brussels sprouts. Forget it, i ain't have vegetables sour patch kids they give y'all brussels sprouts forget it fucking star crunching zebra cakes those those slack you think feeding crack to the ghetto is the thing keeping y'all down frosted flakes motherfucker that's scary sugar ain't nothing but crack in a sweeter form really anyway man um yeah we just wanted to do a little review of that we'll do another one next monday uh appreciate y'all man keep it tight and um let's look forward to more jordan not more anyone else that's it peace god bless