Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh - The Last Dance: Episodes 3 & 4

Episode Date: April 27, 2020

This week Andrew Schulz, Akaash SIngh, and AlexxMedia discuss episodes 3 & 4 of the ESPN docuseries, The Last Dance (Michael Jordan Doc). INDULGE! Want an extra episode a week? Join the Flagrant Army www.Patreon.com/FLAGRANT2

I tried to justify these two girls that I follow to my girl last night. So she looks at the people you follow? You're crazy to think every girl doesn't do that. Yeah, but if she brings it up, that's different. Nah, she didn't bring it up. For some reason, I was scrolling, and I think she saw me kind of stop. Oh, you never stop. I'll purposely open my Instagram and just keep the same tempo. Even if it's a bad bitch, you got to keep the same tempo. And then I'll stop open my Instagram and just like keep the same tempo

even if it's a bad bitch you gotta keep the same and then I'll stop on a dude like oh let me see what he's doing some bullshit so just so this is what she stakes how I scroll Instagram

send off the trail you scroll at the tempo then you keep track of the name you don't know nothing about girls shut the fuck up what the fuck you talking about you only got me don't tell us about you man shut the fuck up what the fuck you talking about you only got me talking about

you following cricket players and shit like that has there been another person like Dennis Rodman since game wise

no no no not just game wise who he was as a human being. Not only in sports, in entertainment. Has there been another person like him? Person. I'm not just talking about in athletics.

Person. Like Dennis Robinson's. Close. Antonio Brown. How so? Make the argument. Make the argument. Parties.

Acts wild. Does whatever. Shows up. Works harder than everybody out there. Now, he's more destructive than Rodman, but Rodman also needed to be held in check. And I think Antonio Brown on the Patriots would have been like Rodman on the Bulls. I'm partying, I want attention, I seek attention, whatever,

but end of the day, I'm going to outwork everybody. That is interesting, but was antonio brown doing this prior we didn't know this version of antonio brown until he got kicked off we knew a little bit but he wasn't like rob it wasn't like rob robman was like international news yeah yeah right kim jong-un likes robin yes yeah yeah i mean i don't think it was the first call he made to the bulls so it might it might have been, yo. Man, get out of here. You don't think Kim Jong-un was like, can I get Jordan? And they're like, you probably can't get Jordan.

Can I get Scottie? You can't get Scottie. He over Scottie, yo. You want to hang out with Robin over Scottie. Who you want to hang out with? Maybe. Maybe. Doesn't matter.

Back to Robin. I don't know if this is a good comparison, but I would say Tekashi69. Ooh. So he wasn't an athlete, of course, but his ability to still make bangers while living the wildest fucking life. Yeah. I just think he was excelling in both areas. So in music, he was excelling, and then he was just living wild. That's an interesting one. I haven't heard about Tekashi.

I think Tekashi is interesting. I don't think there's been another person that's like Dennis Rodman. If you think about what Rodman was doing, like Rodman was doing shit that's still taboo now, back before people even knew what the fuck it was. Rodman was dressing in drag, right? This is a black man. Lipstick. Lipstick. Wedding lipstick wedding dress dying his hair crazy wearing leather pants like this is a black man in the fucking 90s doing this right now if you're a rock star you're one of these like white rocker dudes who like bangs his fucking like bandmates but also is like straight kind of like it's not

that crazy we're talking about a black man in sports black dudes in the 90s did not do that no one did that barely now barely now in the 90s i you just never ever saw it now if you're in new york you'll see that shit oh i don't think even in new york in the village you'd have seen that no i mean you might from some actual gay guys but like this guy so dennis robin is out here he is completely unbelievable in his antics yeah right like he's dating madonna i don't think people understand what that means madonna was at that time the biggest artist in the world, probably. Late 90s, too? Yeah.

She was probably like Britney Spears when Britney was in her prime. Also, it's not late 90s. He's dating Madonna when he's with the Spurs. So mid-95, 96? 91 or 92. Nah, he's pissed and selling 93, 94, something like that. No, 91, 92, he got the rings. Maybe 93. Okay, so mid, mid, mid.

He's dating fucking Madonna. People don't understand. Madonna is massive. One of the biggest artists in the history of the game. Right. Tekashi69 barely dating Instagram thoughts. True. Right?

This guy is dating the biggest artist, one of the biggest artists of all time, and the biggest artist at the time. Right? And Bangers is not the same as Five Rings. Three after he started acting crazy. It's hard making a hit. No, no. It's hard making a hit.

And I hear what you're saying. But I also hear what you're saying. It's different things to it. But then he dates, when he's with the Bulls, Carmen Electra. I don't think people realize. Carmen Electra was that bitch. She was that bitch? But was she?

I thought she was becoming that bitch. She probably helped her become that bitch. She was bitch but was she i thought she was like becoming that bitch not probably helped her become she was she was one of them bitches she was already prince's girl she started out as prince's girl oh really yeah okay i thought that came after no she started out as prince's girl then she got an mtv i think she took over for jenny mccarthy was singled out maybe something and then she just became sex she was sex personified yeah right so you go from madonna to the next sexiest bitch right you're out partying all of them right okay dressing whoever the fuck you want nail polish tattoos lip rip belly button ring you're defying all these cultural standards of masculinity while you're in this sport that's supposed to personify masculinity.

Yeah. All forgiven because you don't care what motherfuckers think about you. Maybe you deeply do care and that's why you're rejecting it, but it doesn't matter. Right? All the while winning motherfucking rings. Right? Defensive MVP. Best rebounder ever in the history of the game.

People forget about the Spurs season. You know he averaged 17 rebounds a game in the Spurs season? Wait for it. Didn't even start all the games. He didn't even start every game. You had Duncan and Robinson on the team. Duncan went on the team? Yes, he was.

Yes, he was. Look it up up i don't think so yo look up look up duncan and robinson and see if they were on the team duncan got robinson was robinson didn't like robin that was a big point of contention sure i think duncan got drafted like 97 98 something like that look at what year uh tim duncan was on the uh anyway point is 97 are you sure yeah yeah oh man i looked at his shit up anyway i was reading some article that said he has can we say one thing yeah you got to take back what you said about not wanting to hear that's where i was going for that's where i was going to yo i was i said i don't want to hear anything about any other any other player but i forget how fucking

interesting everyone on that team was i mean i mean everyone maybe not but maybe not pippin i want more episodes on phil i'm fascinated by phil yeah i want to all right i still want to know okay so we'll say we'll say robin right robin okay i'm and i again i completely take back whatever the fuck i said about not wanting to see any other characters that's fine i still find jordan to be the most interesting one but rodman is the most fascinating one of the most fascinating human being and human beings in history this is unbelievable so i'm looking at this guy i'm like there is no version of him now some people said kanye was that you that said kanye no some people have said kanye i find it interesting kanye might have done the opposite version of what robin did so like robin pushed back against the stereotypes of masculinity by

by going like gay with it and kanye is pushing him back against the stereotypes of uh blackness in america by going maybe conservative or maga with it right you're still rejecting what you're not allowed to be in an effort to be free and if you like look at a lot of kanye's language like i want to be able to do whatever i want i want to have that ability to be free i want to do these like robman said that a lot too yeah right and he needed that liberation he needed that leash he needed that extra long leash. It was interesting that Madonna was the one that was like- Got it out of him. Yeah.

She was a lot like that. Madonna's like white Erykah Badu. Think about it. Erykah Badu got to every guy and flipped their ass. What was it? Outkast, dude? Dressed normal. Andre Three Stacks.

Dressed normal to Erykah Badu got him. Common came out of Electric Circus. That motherfucker dressed like an accordion. What? Common had this weird ass album, Electric Circus. It was wild. He was Erykah Badu got him Common came out of Electric Circus Common had this weird ass album Electric Circus it was wild oh yeah Erykah Badu

got fuck you up pussy real talk absolutely but Madonna Lenny Kravitz Dennis Rodman who else

Vanilla Ice she did legends anyway point is so you got this guy so you got this guy son it's hard to make hits bro you guy Son it's hard to make hits bro

You gotta admit it It's hard to make hits Ruined everyone's career So You got this guy Who is a complete Fucking enigma Right

And somehow What That was a tense little word It was gross Right there I said enigma Okay relax yo Dude

Fuck yo Come on, son. I didn't say enigmer. So he's a complete enigma, right? And somehow he fits into the Bulls. Right. Right? And we have to look at how the fuck he fits in the Bulls.

We understand why he doesn't fit into the Spurs, right? Spurs are ultimate team first. There's a reason why most people didn't know Kawhi's greatness is because the greatness gets swallowed up by the team, right? You can't be yourself within the Spurs. You are part of the machine, and they do great because of it, but you're part of the machine. Rodman's individuality didn't exist with the Spurs.

I don't think that was Popovich either because I don't know if he was coaching then. I don't think he was there yet. Robinson's a fucking, he's a Navy guy. His organization though. Robinson was like an admiral. He's the admiral. He's from the Navy. So he's like, I'm not, what is this?

Shit. Get it out of here. Get it out of here. Yeah. Yeah. And so it was like, you have a situation where it couldn't exist. And while he wants to finally entertain the side of him that he got the balls. Yeah.

To lean into. He can't do it with the Spurs. But I don't think that that's just it. We know that Robin has these mental problems with the Pistons. Right. Yeah. He's got mental problems in general. Right. has these mental problems with the pistons right yeah he's got mental problems in general right and like a lot of people who have kind of mental issues uh they gravitate towards athletics because

it takes extreme focus yeah and i think what happens is when you're in the heat of battle the only thing you can think about is that game and it takes you out of all these horrible thoughts that you have right going around your head similar to music right like a lot of times mental people mental issues gravitate to music because they can get lost in playing the music right and i think what happens is when you're in the heat of the battle and you experience not just regular season but championships yeah once you experience championships that's the battle, and you experience not just regular season, but championships. Yeah. Once you experience championships, that's the condom off. You fucking raw. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Right? Yeah. You fucking raw. Once you put the condom back on, which is regular season. Yeah. They don't have the same stakes. Right, right, right. Right?

So he goes to the Spurs, and they did fine. I think they made playoffs and stuff stuff but you can't be yourself you can't be that bird that needs to fly and you're playing regular season games and you're getting fucking teed up why are you getting teed up because it doesn't matter yeah none of these games matter right he was playing with the bulls right scotty goes down he has that moment with you know jordan where he goes to the hotel room, whatever it is, basically to apologize but doesn't apologize, asks for the cigar. But Jordan looks at it like an apology.

And all of a sudden, he's focused. Right? Yeah. Why? Because the stakes were high again. Pippen comes back, falls apart again. Doesn't fall apart. He just knows he's not needed.

Yeah. He knows he could coast. It doesn't mean anything he even says something in the documentary where he was like none of these games make a difference i'm just bored i gotta try to find some way to yeah right it didn't occupy enough of this playoff intensity locked in pippen goes out locked in the second pippen's back yeah I could it's easy I don't look at it exactly like that I thought I mean based on whatever like I saw some made for tv movie about Dennis Rodman when I was a kid yeah it was whack but I what I basically figured out about him is he just didn't have a father

like that he had no family structure he had nobody that loved him the family that kind of like took him in either when he was in college or helped him get into college to play ball he loved them because they loved him yep he always just needed a father chuck daly was his father so with the pistons he's good yeah structure once he's you've earned his trust he likes i think i think when he went to san antonio nobody earned his trust and then gave him structure right chuck Daly gave him structure, was his father. When Chuck got fired, he started to go off the rails. Why do you think in one of the most structured organizations in basketball, he couldn't have

Because I think they didn't also give him, he didn't earn his trust first. Like, first, you got to earn my trust. And then I'm going to, I'm not going to reject. What does it take to earn his trust? I think everybody had a different approach. I think when the Pistons got there, everybody just kind of took him in sheltered him whatever for whatever reason he always loved chuck daly to this day and then phil knew how to talk to him what was the the native american term he used i wrote it down some dumb shit phil made up yeah but either way about

native americans he's just going waka waka and then the hey yo oh yeah yeah hey yoka but that robin bought in he said i'll let you do you so robin's like okay he trusts me now i can respect this structure enough michael trust me scotty trust me that's what he said they always let me be me right let me be me that's what i need right now don't just come impose the shit and then the structure of a practice and stuff structure structure is in position say what structure is in position like when you say i need to structure my day it's not do whatever you want with your day it's hey nine o'clock you're gonna wake up at two o'clock you're gonna

be at practice four o'clock you're gonna eat structure is a fancy way of saying here is your schedule yeah or so it's like does he need structure or does he need liberation i think that he actually needs liberation more than anything. I think he doesn't need structure. I think that Rodman is actually incredibly self-disciplined if you let him fly. And Chuck Daly said to that coach, that assistant coach that was coaching him a little too hard, he steps over, he goes, hey, you don't put a saddle on a Mustang. So Chuck daly understood you don't over coach a rodman rodman is built to give you everything right he will give you everything if you let him be himself and the spurs didn't understand it daly understood it the spurs didn't understand it the spurs were like well no you just come to this

practice you play like this you do like that etc and dave was like no you don't you let that motherfucker do whatever you want because on the floor he's gonna empty the tank every single game and there's one other player on the bulls that empties the tank every single game mj it's mj and i've never seen mj speak about someone the way that he spoke about rodman not scotty when he's talking about the vegas trip not even the vegas trip just in general he has no criticisms of rodman it's unbelievable i think at one point he was like oh that's the smartest player i've ever played yeah smartest player ever i've never seen mj speak so highly of someone scotty you could tell mj got some issues like the migraine shit even to this day he's like motherfucker take a advil right like a migraine

i'm not gonna lie i get them sometimes in my visual field no migraines are debilitating so what happens to me i've never heard you complain about a migraine it'll happen to me on the road sometimes when i'll be like i gotta take a nap like i'm just trying to sleep that off so what happens is you know how like uh the right part of your brain i think focus on the left visual field and like vice versa so if i feel the migraine coming here the headache will go away and then this side will be blurry or it's vice versa it's like first blurry and then the headache comes afterwards those are dude i remember when i was a kid terrell davis almost sat out the super bowl because of the migraine and it's stress related he was just stressed out scotty was feeling immense stress and i'm sure

it was probably like i don't want to let this jordan guy down duane wade is miss games because of migraines i've never gotten a migraine so i don't know what it is but anybody that gets them it's like they're out so don't think about it like a headache think about it literally like you cannot see this is just blurry and it's not like you could close your eye the you're dumb at first and you just go i'll just close this side and then i'll be able to focus it's not like you could close your eye the you're dumb at first and you just go i'll just close this side and then i'll be able to focus it's your left visual field yeah so regardless if it's right eye or left eye you still are going to see blurry over here i remember the first time it happened to me i was in my uncle's house in fucking california and i just started seeing

blurry and i was like did i lose my vision the fuck is going on what was stressful i don't know i i honestly i don't know you know i laughed at that because i thought when you got the flu on the road yeah and then andrew was like yeah thought when you got the flu on the road, and Andrew was like, yeah, he says he got the flu, whatever. He's not coming in today. I don't know. What was this? Whatever you got the flu.

Yeah. And you ended up going on the road, but you missed the podcast. That's what it was. I still think that was Corona. Maybe. And then Andrew was, I was like, where's Al? He's like, he's got the flu. And I was like, really?

He's like, I guess. It's the exact same way I'm doing. He got migraines or whatever, I the same like what can i say it's just another similarity between me and mj i don't know i don't know what else to tell y'all guys i don't know what to tell y'all but i had a flu weekend that weekend you did have flu came out but you came through son he delivered yo he did so but wait where were we with that it was was, oh yeah, with his respect for Robin. I mean, MJ is not flying to Las Vegas and knocking on anyone's hotel room. That was crazy that it was actually Michael Jordan.

Yeah. That was crazy. That was so dope. That was dope. Son, I mean, that is the greatest compliment of all time. Yeah. The greatest compliment of all time is Michael Jordan knocks on your fucking hotel room when you've been gone for 72 hours or however many hours it was and says, hey, we got to get

back. Oh, you know what? I actually thought that was more than a release for Dennis Rodman. I thought it was he needs love again. Maybe more than structure. He just needs love. Because when he said when Pippen came back, when even Jordan said when Pippen was gone, somebody said when Pippen was gone i rodman mj

needed rodman yep and robin loved that then rodman says when pippen came back i'm just back to being the third kind of like yep forgotten brother and i think that was him being like i don't like i need love i need attention i need whatever so i'm just gonna go cope how i cope and then hopefully you'll come rescue me or save me or love me or whatever. I think that's definitely part of it, 100%. I think wanting to feel needed was definitely it. I also think there's something about knowing that they could get it done without him. Knowing that he didn't have to put it all in. He comes to them when Scotty comes back

and he goes, I need a vacation. What does he need a vacation from? This guy is someone who deals with mental issues, right? He has had extreme focus for this however many months stretch that scotty's down right and that extreme focus gets them to start winning games yeah right now scotty's back he's like listen i am fucking mentally ill i can't sustain this all right i need to blow off steam what is another way to not deal with your mental issues? Drink.

Party. Self-medicate. Self-medicate. That's why it's called self-medicating. That's what the partying is. It's not, I like watching girls dance. Like you're an NBA player. You can have girls come to your fucking house whenever you want. You know what's wild?

He's with Carmen Electra, still dancing with other bitches. Flirting with other bitches. Talking about other bitches. Please believe there was more than one bitch in that room when Jordan knocked on the door. Oh, yo. Because Jordan said, I'm not going to say what was happening in the room. He's not going to be like,

he was with his girlfriend. Hey, you think it might have been another dude in there too? Who knows, bro? Right, anything is possible. Who knows, bro? He's like an Adidas slogan. Impossible is nothing with Dennis Rodman. And nothing was going to weird out mj if you

yeah so so here's the dope thing you know what's great about these at first i'm watching these two episodes i'm like all right i know we're excited about this thing so we're gonna hype it up a little bit more but these are all right what i loved about these episodes is these episodes establish greatness for characters that were not michael jordan yeah and they were great because they were great undeniably but sometimes when you're in the shadow of such a great thing it's hard to appreciate the thing next to it it's like you see the great pyramid of giza there's another pyramid there that's not as big you don't even we don't even know the name of that one right you know what i'm saying there's two other ones that are dope that we don't know the names of yeah because

they're right there but they're fucking pyramids, bro. Right? Here's the thing that I thought was so dope. Like you were saying about Phil. Like Phil coached your soul. Yeah. Like Phil found out what made you tick. Right.

Right? And he got inside you. Yeah. And I don't know. Maybe we'll see more. I presume that Phil did not have the closest relationship with Scotty. This is my assumption. Because if Phil was in Scotty's soul, Scotty would have never sat out.

Scotty would have never sat out. I don't think that he had. I think he understood Mike. And he understood. He didn't have to coach mike mike was going to give every little bit of it every single day that's why he's the goat because it didn't matter if it was practice regular season he's going to empty the tank you didn't need to motivate mike he is not he is a robot he's going to get the fucking job done at

whatever cost you have to manage mike you got to manage the other pieces. Well, you know what you need to manage with Mike? His soul. You need to get him to trust his teammates. Yep. That's what makes you a champion. You just, this whole offense is designed so you trust your teammates, bro. So many things I want to talk about this episode.

And I saw that was such an important skill that both Phil and Jordan have that they can recognize like the strengths in people and how to bring it up okay so it's like they read people so well like Jordan knows how far he can push everybody he knows what people he needs to push and what people he doesn't have to push and it's like Phil does the same thing so so I think with that I think I think Jordan was a really interesting scene when they saw Jordan crying when the other players talk about Jordan crying when he got the trophy he's's like, we never saw that. We just saw a guy

who was in a bad mood criticizing you, hard on you, et cetera. Singular focus, that's all he had. No positive emotions, no love,

and nothing like that. He said, I'm busting your balls. Why aren't you doing this? Critical, critical, critical. So the job of Phil in a lot of ways was to manage

everybody else's emotions around Jordan. You're around someone who you know is better than you and you know when he criticizes you, he can because you're not as good as him.

So how do you keep everybody else's self-esteem up, right? One way might be getting everybody some touches and getting them to score a couple points and get a couple assists. And credit to Jerry Krause for seeing that.

Son, we're going to talk about Jerry Krause being a motherfucking goat. By the way, he got a memoir coming out. His wife isn't saying anything about this documentary because he wants she wants all of she wants all of uh jerry's words to be spoken by him essentially so he got a memoir coming out where he's going to give his side it's easier to read what he's saying and look at him while he's talking it look like monsters inc yeah yeah it's bad it's bad didn't he die like five years ago yeah i don't know how many but he's dead he's dead but he's got a memoir apparently coming out so she's not talking any media right die like five years ago? Yeah. I don't know how many, but he's dead.

He's dead. But he's got a memoir apparently coming out. So she's not talking to any media right now. He's going to give his side of the story, et cetera. I don't know what else is going to be good. So what's fascinating about Jordan, right, and Phil, et cetera, is like Jordan had a singular focus. In the height of his career, he's winning all these scoring championships.

He's dominating the league. He was so singularly focused on winning a championship that he was willing to sacrifice his potential greatness to get there right he's averaging 37 a game and he's willing to accept this new offense that's going to take the ball out of his hands and willing to help his teammate so his teammates can help him get to the promised land he recognizes he recognizes this and he leans into it it's absolutely amazing a carmelo anthony could never right carmelo anthony is so stupid he could never see like if did you guys see the interstitial with carmelo fast forwarded through that shit you should have seen it was a fascinating look into how retarded he is yeah it is he is one of the dumbest people i like i thought draymond

green was one of the most stupid people. I saw that and I just shook my head. I was like, I can't believe this. Dude, he is the IQ of a crocodile. That's what he is. He is one. Crocodiles go, I need to eat. And that's all Carmelo knows how to do.

What did Melo say? Fuck. Do you know exactly? He goes, I remember watching. He's still speaking hood for some reason. Like every other NBA player learned how to do their fucking media voice and Melo's still like

yeah I was watching Rodman because he don't got a job well no he does what does he have to do media training for ain't no media talking to him so he goes

he goes I was watching you know I used to watch Rodman I remember Rodman said I don't care about these these games these games mean nothing to me

it's boring out there and I was like yo this is the realest motherfucker. I love this guy. And I was like, are you that fucking stupid that you would say this publicly? Hey, you played a lot

of meaningless games, dog. That's your whole career is playing a lot of meaningful ones. Son! But like the fact that he doesn't realize that his biggest criticism is that he can't see beyond himself.

Yeah. That he could say that publicly in something that would be on TV that the world will watch to confirm what we've all thought about you. Yep. Unbelievable. He thought that was a highlight.

He's like, oh, that was so dope that he said that. I mean, Carmelo could, he's retarded. Carmelo could never do it. The lack of,

if nothing else, the lack of self-awareness. It's hysterical. It's hysterical. I'm not even going to argue with the mellow defenders. You just have to understand how stupid you sound yeah like you gotta be smarter than that people love mike the situation in jersey shore and they defend him to the end yeah that's what carmelo is it's

like he's just a guy who's completely he's completely oblivious of who he is and where he stands in the world and how people view him i'll tell you his situation under 500 yeah that's his situation at all times so it's like so so jordan is willing to sacrifice for this greater good and maybe get credit phil to that yeah yeah absolutely i thought phil dude i'll watch a three parts on phil right just to me what he's done he has rewritten the nba history books more than jerry kraus more than maybe even mj because he did it twice right he did it with the bulls and then he did it again with the lakers using similar principles and like being progressive like growing up in montana where they don't fuck with the american indians and him just being like nah i didn't see that yeah i believed him when he said it i think a lot of coaches will try to like play up how progressive they are.

I really believe him when he's like, nah, I wanted to learn from them. And then he learned that and brought it into a team. And what is a team? It's a tribe. That's all it is. Especially a basketball team. 15 people standing in circles. All I'm going to instill in you guys is you are a family.

You are a tribe. This is everything. And if you get a team to play together and you got MJ and and you can get him to buy in sure you're the chief of the tribe yeah this is still your tribe bro it's you take great players and that's what elevates everything yeah you and he had to convince mj that taking the ball out of his hands would get him what he ultimately wanted yes and mj did not trust him even the documentary he says he's like with five seconds left i didn't want the ball in bill wennington's hands yeah bill cartwright or bill cartwright whatever the fuck that a lot of bills that's so funny dude yeah he's like i didn't want the ball

in his hand and then they show a shot of bill cartwright missing a little five foot fade away they just trash that motherfucker 100 and uh but he's right but he got him to trust his teammates for the greater good and this is the thing that I was so fascinating about Jordan. Jordan, if it's the military, Jordan wants to win so bad that his whole philosophy is don't ask, don't tell. Right. It don't matter what Jordan has to say. It don't matter what Jordan feels about homosexuality, about trans, about any of these things. He don't care about what Rodman does off the court because he knows Rodman is going to bring it on the court. Right. So it's like he could turn a blind eye.

Don't ask, don't tell. I don't care what Scottie does with his personal life. I don't care what John Pax, I don't care what none of y'all do. If y'all fuck around on the court, it a problem if you deliver on the court we're good and it was so cool to see someone with a singular focus he didn't coach your soul yeah jordan asked for the most out of you and he rewarded the people who gave the most yeah what's his face uh phil coached your soul phil found a way in there yeah this i'm again i just i like people who know how to handle greatness

and know how to bring greatness out of everybody, and I'm fascinated by a guy who gets human beings on that level. Son, Phil solidified his ghost ship with this documentary. Not like it wasn't solidified before, but everybody was like, oh, he inherited great players. Yes, he inherited great players. Absolutely. There's no question that.

You can't knock that. But managing the egos is the coach's job. Even Rick Carlisle, who's the number one x's and o's guy i read a book where he recently said like x's and o's is 10 of being a pro head coach yeah and my problem is rick carlisle said about this about himself my problem is i don't know how to relate to these guys as well and that's the most important part of the job so phil he got the x's and o's and then the other 90 dude brilliant fucking brilliant this guy could be a leader of a country yo dude 100 great leadership and you know what i realized i'm sitting there i'm like why the fuck did jordan listen to this motherfucker like yes jordan got along with doug because they both had the same fire and i think jordan mired that doug just kind of like

said whatever happened but he also kissed jordan's ass and then you know jordan was having this incredible success under doug so you're definitely going to relate some of that to him you know what i thought was really telling about their relationship what do you call him what what do you call doug collins i don't know dougie if that's a coach to me that you really respect as a coach you're not giving him no nickname that's a peer it was one of the sniffers yeah yeah he was another sniffer even if he wasn't a full-on sniffer oh he's a sniffer you're not above me if you're dougie it was a sniffer what was the play at the end of the game or something like that just get the ball to george get the fuck out the way that was the play every play right right yeah which is cool but phil had this phil had this

different energy right and jordan didn't even like phil when he came in yeah but i was like why the fuck did he end up listening to him? Yes, don't get me wrong. Phil knows how to get in your head with the Zen. But what did Phil have that Jordan didn't? Jewelry. Oh, we got two with the Knicks. And one with that CBA team.

Say what it is. It doesn't matter. I did not know that. We didn't know that he played for the Albany. There was a CBA team that he coached. So he got two with the Knicks, right? And then he coached a team in the CBA and he got one with them. So when he's telling Jordan, this is what you got to do.

I'm not telling you this as someone who has as many rings as you, which is zero. I'm telling you as someone who's done it as a player and as a coach. Yeah. I know some shit, motherfucker. Do you want these? Yeah. Is this what you want? Because I know how to get these.

You don't. If you did, you'd have them. And the fact that he coached in Puerto Rico and had to deal like- The crazy shit. A language barrier craziness going on over there. She can get fucking heads cut off. Yeah. Like crazy shit.

What is this relationship with killing chickens that Puerto Ricans got no no chickens kill each other you cut the chicken the mayor is the fucking mayor doing it

so the mayor shot the refs the mayor shot the ref in the fucking leg oh my god yeah it's so funny where was this energy when the conquistadors came

yo son y'all just let them walk over y'all you know what I mean it's not happening again you're not stealing from us anymore it's a foul yo nuts yeah that's his only punishment was you can't come to games anymore for the rest of the season home games home games i'm assuming you're not traveling so for the rest of this year just sit

it out you almost killed somebody yeah that's crazy that's crazy it was but you know what's interesting about the mj thing there was a tipping point with trusting phil okay and it was the finals against the lakers in the closeout game remember when he talked about finding paxton phil told him like john is open every time give him the ball he said who's open oh who's open that's yeah and this is such a genius thing you let someone come up with the conclusion themselves you're right and now you're not telling them what to do and mj's a guy you don't tell what to do now you mention it ali the same my pops used to go to ali's camp a lot and he said uh ali's coach oh my god why am i forgetting who the fuck is his coach

is that dundee angelo dundee uh angelo would never tell Ali What to do He'd ask Ali Hey what should we do now Ali And he's like Alright we could work on some abs He's like That's a good idea Let's work on some abs Right

Now he knows That we gotta work on abs But he knows You don't tell Muhammad Ali To do the abs Yeah Muhammad Ali's gonna do the work Yeah

Jordan's gonna do the work Yeah You don't gotta motivate them to work The other guy Scotty you gotta motivate probably Right But even Jordan says it in the doc,

he's like, Scotty will fight for you. He just wants to know that you're on his side. Yeah. That's another little dig. That's a little dig. Jordan's like,

I don't need nobody on my side. I'll swing on anybody. I thought it was big brother, little brother thing. Like, that's my little brother. He just needs to know

his big brother's here and then we'll fight. We'll fight together. Don't call me little brother, motherfucker. I'm one of like the best 50 players in the league. That's what Scotty was.

He was. He was. The most accomplished little brother. And a testament to Scotty Pippen on a certain level to swallow your ego and be like, look, this is how we win chips. And if I'm the little brother, that's fine. I'm the little brother. You guys can criticize me all you want to.

Sidekick, blah, blah, blah. I'm one of the 50 greatest ever. I got five rings, six rings. What do y'all got? James Harden should look at this documentary right now. And he should go, man, I could have had fucking six rings by now. Yo. James Harden should look at this fucking documentary.

Russell Westbrook should look at this documentary right now. Now, Kevin Durant does not have the leadership and the focus that Jordan does. He just doesn't have it. He's not the alpha that Jordan is. But Kevin Durant, I'm sorry, Jamesames harden could have been scotty pippen and he chose to have his own team and scotty pippen on his own team wouldn't have been nearly as much beta to anybody when jordan left scotty was the guy and he seemed to like it but he was like look this is the fucking greatest there's an unstoppable force that, hey, if me being little brother gets us rings, I'm little brother.

Call me Rep Infante or whatever his name is. I'm little brother. Do you think it's, do you think because they weren't making as much money, it was easier to value the ring? Maybe. And also when you're making more money, you got more yes men. You got more hangers on. You got more.

People in your ear. Yeah. Yeah. You got got people dming you all this kind of shit because like it's almost like in the mafia when when they were only getting one two year sentences for you know gambling or racket or not even racketeering it was like gambling stuff or like stealing something off the back of a truck like everybody was going with the code right they weren't telling right the second you were getting 20 year sentences for drugs all of a sudden motherfuckers are snitching they're breaking the code and i feel like if you equate the year sentence to the millions of dollars you could make a year yeah when it's 25 mil a year yeah that's a lot of money and i'm gonna play my role and get five million fuck that i don't know give me that 25 right yeah and i in a lot in a lot of ways it's like

like money has always done it just like uh removes the purity of the game now they deserve it they're making this money they should get it i'm not saying they don't but like it's an easier decision to sacrifice when it's between three million and four yeah and three million and $30 million. Right, right, right. It's hard to turn down $30 million. Yeah, dude. Right? Yeah, 100%. It's a different... As tax brackets change, everything changes. Everything changes.

And when you go from being a $100,000 heir to a millionaire to a multimillionaire... Yikes. ...to a $100 million heir, these are all very different mentalities. Yeah. Different shit is on the line. Yes.

$100 million, my kids' kids' kids are good. That's multi-generational. It's generational. Unless you're Scottie Pippen and you find a way to spend it in one generation. In one lifetime, he spent $120 million on fucking car washes or whatever they did.

Guy got no art. Motherfucker got no art in his whole house. You see his house? They rented that shit for the shoot. Is he broke? I wasn't even looking. I don't know, bro, but I'm looking at his house. I that shit for the shoot is he broke i don't know bro but like i'm looking at his house he got divorced because i think you al were telling me he

was gonna get divorced and then he just realized how much it was gonna cost and he was like nah let's not let's work it out he shacked it yeah shaq's still married right is he still married to shawnee no no shag single they got divorced yeah oh okay because i thought he was keeping her around because it was cheaper for a minute she took a significant chunk yeah that's why i said shack out there djing you gotta dj that money back but yeah man it was um it was a really interesting the episode was really interesting to solidify ph Phil's greatness And his ability to manage those egos To solidify

Something we never really knew about Jordan Which was the sacrifice that he made Yeah Like I think we all knew he was willing to Leave it all on the floor Yeah But I didn't I don't think we knew how much he sacrificed

The guy sacrificed 10 points a game I think he went from 37 to maybe like 28 We could look at yeah probably right like that's a lot b and he trusted it all the way through and then because it was going to bring up the tipping point moment when when phil asked who's open and he said john and then he trusted john he's interesting he said when john hit that first shot i said okay here we go yeah if john misses that first shot i wonder what happens why, here we go. If John misses that first shot,

I wonder what happens. Why is this white guy on the team? I wonder what happens. If he misses that shot, he goes ham. Go get some water. Jordan goes ham. Jordan goes ham. They might have still closed it out,

but then do they get six rings as opposed to one? Because that seemed like the light bulb moment. And Phil said, I think that's when all the work sunk in of like, okay, you can't trust your teammates these guys are here for a reason and paxton is a cold-blooded motherfucker i remember rooting for the suns because i love barkley when they played in the finals and paxton hit the three that buried them in game six game winning three bang and he's just paxton's a cold-ass white boy dude just give him the ball he's gonna knock it down and i think that once he saw that shot go in that change i think that's a history changing shot i think because i think after that jordan

was like okay phil was right this whole time now let's run this offense let's really share the ball let's lean into it now he fully leans in whereas before he's doing it i think like i'm gonna trust you yeah but i don't fully trust you then when he saw that shot going he goes okay i fully trust it let's go and then after that you think that the offense makes sense to him i think everything makes sense to him share share the ball with your teammates elevate your teammates play what was interesting is phil was like yeah you got to lift up your teammates and mj said i hated that they always said michael doesn't make his teammates better magic does larry does and so i decided to change that and then he just yelled

at them i mean he just fucking berated them and treated them like shit. That's how you make them better. But that's how he motivated them, I guess. I mean, maybe. He motivated through fear. I think probably Magic didn't. LeBron doesn't. Yeah.

And I think MJ is greater, so it worked out. But like, it was funny that he was like, I'm going to really lean into this being a good teammate thing. Hey, you piece of shit. What the fuck, yo? It's an easy shot. Why do you think that MJ had so much respect for Rodman?

I think Rodman's work ethic. Yeah, I think because he saw the work ethic and he puts it all out there. Don't ask, don't tell. He's probably the only person other than him who puts it all out there. So it's like, all right,

I don't need to say anything to him. Yeah, I was asking around a little bit and I was like, what do you think it is? Like just asking some folks in the league. And one thing that is not really touched upon that much in the documentary, you kind of see it, but they don't really say it. Rodman was a gym rat.

Oh, yeah. You probably know this, but like the average person is like, oh, he's wearing makeup and he's out partying all the time. When he wasn't doing that, he's in the gym. He is a... He's the work hard, play hard guy. We've all known one like that. He might be the biggest example of party hard, work hard.

Party hard, work hard. And MJ was a rat. Yeah. So when MJ saw that Rodman was a gym rat, and every time MJ's in the gym lifting, all of a sudden this Rodman guy's also in the gym lifting. He don't got to motivate him. He's just there.

That's what he likes. I think he's going, okay, this guy's about it. He's not what maybe people say. And then when he sees him diving into the stands, literally leaving it all on the fucking floor and he goes, wait, I don't got to motivate that motherfucker. Everyone else on this team, I got to yell at them, berate them and then manage their confidence, et cetera. But this guy, Rod rodman nothing i say to him can make him feel one way or the other he's gonna give 100 on the floor and he's gonna meet me in the gym the next day yeah okay yeah i wonder if he also liked he didn't have to stand over his teammates if rodman

is there or at least that's one teammate i never have to stand up to four i remember it was in his first three p there was a series against the knicks where they were getting bullied around yeah and his dad was like you gotta you can't let them get bullied around you gotta be the guy to stand up and fight and there's that that shot of him and xavier mcdaniel's like forehead to forehead john yep with robman that's the guy fucking with everybody else he's getting calm along his head super badly like these guys fucking hate him and he can stand up for himself scotty somebody goes to scotty i gotta jump into the fray and it's like i'm too valuable to be the enforcer yeah i can't be enforcing we need that's

what charles oakley was too yeah and he loves oakley as a human and probably would have liked to have him back on his team now i got a much better version of charles oakley and listen if dennis gets into some shit he's the guy they're all gonna go at because everybody he irritates everybody and i don't gotta stand up for dennis i because he irritates everybody. And I don't got to stand up for Dennis. I don't need that burden. I got enough going on. Maybe there's another smaller factor there. No, that's true.

And also, he probably just remembers playing against him on the Pistons. Oh, yeah. The battle that he had to go against him every time. Oh, shit. This motherfucker's real. He's the real fucking deal, bro. So, okay. Two things on that. time he's like oh shit this motherfucker is real is the real fucking deal bro you know there ah so okay two things on that one i want to go to uh on a pittman thing but also on that like

i think that we underestimate rodman's defense right like we we all know he's a great rebounder and then we think of him as a pest right we're like he's a pest he's always in there out there he's agitating his defender he'll also stay in front of you you're not getting by him yeah right and i feel like that was that's kind of lost in the antics a little bit and gary payton yeah said it out of nowhere in the documentary he goes uh he's a fuck up yeah and you think he's gonna he's gonna diss him he goes he goes nah he's mr fuck up what is it he's mr fuck up so you're like oh you're just gonna say he has all these answers he goes nah he goes when he's out out, he fucks everything up.

That's the ultimate compliment. Right? Especially to a point guard whose job it is to not fuck things up. To make everything all right. Was a great defender also. Amazing. The glove, son. The glove.

That's what I'm saying. And for him to say, that's the guy. That's the guy. I think Aldridge is right. That's the best on-ball defender he's ever seen. Yep. That's right. And if you see him when he's not on the ball he playing some nasty ass defense and while we're talking about the defense thing this is something i thought was so great

so when they're playing lakers in the first uh final series the pistons or the bulls uh no when they're playing the lakers the The Bulls are playing the Lakers, right? In their first final. Locks up. Exactly, right? Now, who was originally on Magic? Michael. Michael's on Magic. Of course Michael wants to play Magic. He's been looking up to Magic

constantly in this documentary. He's referencing, I wanted to be in the same conversation as Bird and Magic, right? He goes, he goes, well, he doesn't say. I think the documentary says we switch scotty onto magic and then jordan goes and that changed the series yeah man jordan is the most competitive person on the fucking planet if that don't show you the respect he has for Scottie's D, this is multiple all defensive team.

This is multiple defensive player of the year. Not talking about Scottie, I'm talking about Jordan. Jordan was Mr. Lock you the fuck up. Yeah, he got a defensive player of the year. He's the only goat. Under Doug. Dougie. He's the only goat person I can think of that has a defensive player of the year.

Magic don't got one. Larry don't got one. LeBron don't got one. Yeah. I mean, eventually maybe your guy Kawhi, if he's in that discussion he's in that discussion yeah yeah 100 right now that's the only guy and for him to say yo this guy doesn't have any defensive player of the years but just sacrifice my ego that's another time now that you're talking about sacrificing ego it's a one-on-one matchup with a fucking ring me and magic this is the guy i want i'm locking this

motherfucker up and i'm locking this motherfucker up and i'm gonna score on him all day that's what you got to be thinking if you're jordan you got to check your but if phil says yo we struggle a little bit in game one let's try this switch for you to say yeah i'm cool with that that's a that's a big swallow of the ego also like all right i know what scotty does in practice because let's let him do it to magic here this is what i realized about jordan into his fucking greatness man and this shit is so rare his ego was wrapped around the ring not what he was doing to get the ring right what it took to get the ring yeah and if it took him sacrificing touches all of a sudden that's what's most important if it took him passing ball to fucking john paxton that's what we do if it took him letting scotty

guard the toughest person on the other team that's what we do because my ego is the ring it's not about my personal accomplishment guy you're competing with to be the goat that's it fine fuck it let's win that's huge dog if you're talking about people who want to be goats i remember damian lemon homie of ours he talked about like years ago he says anybody that's in a goat conversation that's a massive ego you're dealing with massive ego so for you to swallow your ego with another goat and you're competing for the first time in your life and you can take that fucking title and say you know what the real title is more important than this temporary goat thing let's go get that what did he say what did he say when he was describing it this is what i thought was so dope he goes he goes it changed everything when uh scotty started

picking up magic 94 feet yeah and then he goes and i knew it worked because i saw him do it in practice yeah now who do you think he saw him do it against him yeah yeah yeah so if he knows how great he is and having scotty guard him 94 feet is a pain of fucking ass he's like oh magic about to get this fucking work yeah it's like motherfuckers sometimes you want that glory so much but the ability to just go nah this is better for the situation right now it's rare it's hard it's hard but that's true greatness is knowing when to check it yeah I wanted

to ask bring it back to Robin do you think he was being real or was it bullshit when he was talking about he studies the way the ball bounces oh no I think it's real I've been hearing that for years. It was just, he was just kind of like,

oh, it bounces this way. Whew. It bounces this way. I thought that the editors of this documentary did an amazing job of making him look like he knew what he was talking about in that moment.

Okay. Right? To me, it was like, I don't know. It started out, right? Because it started out, we're like, oh shit, he's about to really break down

how to rebound. And then we're like, oh, is he just making sound effects what the fuck and then the editors started chopping this shit up

to be like and whoosh and boom and click click and it was like what the fuck is happening horrible sound bite but I do

from what I understood I've heard that about him for like for the longest is he just studies the way the ball bounces off rims when people shoot it

like apparently Bulls practice there would be plenty of times where he would just work the way the ball bounces off rooms. When people shoot it, like apparently bulls practice, there'll be plenty of times that he would just work out on the bike and just watch everybody shoot. And then just watch how does the ball spin and bounce off for each different player. If he does, that's,

that's another thing. It's fucking, I thought it was really cool that they, that they showed how you could actually work on rebounding. Right. Because rebounding, I think we've always looked at, uh, as an effort thing.

Yeah. Effort and athleticism. Yeah. Right? It's like if you're an athlete and if you're willing to really get in there and box out, et cetera, you can get some boards. That's how we've always viewed it. I've never looked at it as a skill outside of boxing out. But like the predictive ability going, okay, when Jordan shoots from this part of the floor, usually his spin will make the ball bounce that way and then being a percent and then you see why

he literally averages six rebounds more he averaged 50 percent more rebounds a game than everyone else in the league when he was doing this and that can't just be effort it's not luck you can't be trying you know 150 percent harder than everybody else I think it was dope when he said like oh I realized like my strength will be in defense and rebound and so I just locked in on that in college he recognized no no in the league so in college this is what I thought was so fascinating

he was scoring 20 games in college he had 26 a game in college he couldn't even shoot in a league so think about that you do 26 a game in college right and I think he went to like a division 2 or some shit like that but and to fucking whatever we'll go back but he goes to division two right the fact that you you can have no ego to be scoring 26 points a game to then scoring nothing a game but having 18 rebounds and recognize okay defensive rebound is where i'm going to make my

effect on the game maybe that's chuck daly saying that maybe that's these other guys that really brought him in and nurtured him like teaching him that or maybe it's his own intellect you know i don't think i think one thing that's really cool about this is it shows robman was not stupid oh yeah he's a smart guy sometimes we assume like people who like look wild or stupid yeah you know like takashi in his six nine everybody all these guys an idiot this at the other smartest guy in the room and the guy that's acting the dumbest and making money it's the smartest guy in the room the first interview that he had with the breakfast club when he bodied them right listen he bodied i text charlotte right after i'm like yo they y'all were not ready you thought this kid coming in wasn't gonna be good and sharp and you took him lightly and he came in a body jaw

and that moment i'm like oh this guy is fucking brilliant yeah he is fucking brilliant he knows how to navigate this shit those guys dude i give maybe too much credit i literally think soldier boy's a fucking genius yeah i think this takashi 69 is brilliant i think these guys who if you act like the dumbest person in the world but you're a millionaire you're not dumb everybody's making you money by thinking you're dumb and you're and again a big being willing to swallow that ego to say everybody in the world thinks i'm an idiot but i'm making that much money and i think a lot of times a guy like like rodman i sense he said some shit like i want it to hurt i like when it hurts on the court i like being in pain that's a guy that's in pain right he needs the stakes man i think well even just i took that as physical pain i like hurting myself

yeah those guys a lot of times are are too smart for their own good like they just see all the misery around them one of my smartest friends is i mean he's not depressed or anything but he's a guy that's like yeah life is useless i mean there's no real purpose to it you just think it through it's just you live it whatever but like i think a lot of times those guys feel the most because they're too smart for their own good that's what i think about robin we think he's dumb but he just fucking notices all the bullshit around him and even had a line like i play the game for free i get paid for this bullshit everything around that talking to you mother that's a bar yo that's a bar that's not a dumb person saying that uh-uh and we look at them if you're if you're

don't if you have a job you hate you look at them like nah man fuck that if you had to deal with one one millionth of that you're like oh yeah yeah yeah you're right then the pressure that they must feel not only jordan the entire the entire like sports news business is like down your fucking throats looking after your every single word of course you want to drink of course you're going to want to have some fun of course you're going to ride a motorcycle instead of a car you need stakes my man drank a beer yeah hopped on a motorcycle yeah no helmet dropping off from the game that's crazy because you need something to cover like shield your eyes like his he probably can't even see you probably barely see on a fucking bike like when you're going that fast that shit is crazy he was yeah that was a part of him i think they just wanted to be hurt even now he's just fucking self-medicating with alcohol

and whatever but i yeah sure release and all that i also just think there's a part of him i feel like it's broken and i feel bad for him yeah he's absolutely broken but he's absolutely broken but the way that he coped with it was really interesting yeah and partying maybe is a stupid thing some people find like meditation right that's the opposite of partying but what it is like the shutting down of a brain right so how do i shut my brain down do i take some drugs do i do this like breathing shit that kind of calms it down do i get myself in this intense activity that it requires all of my brain power to maintain. It's like, this is Dennis Rodman, man. He's just a fascinating fucking guy.

It was really cool that they showed his greatness. Yeah. And Phil's greatness. Phil's ability to manage ego and motivate players. Yeah. Unbelievable. Now, as we kind of wrap this up, I want to hear any other takes you guys want to put out,

but I want to put some more respect on Kraus. And I wonder, by the end wrap this up, I want to hear any other takes you guys want to put out. But I want to put some more respect on Kraus. And I wonder by the end of this documentary if we realize how fucking great Kraus was. Dougie takes the Bulls to the Eastern Conference Finals. Jordan is the best player in the fucking world winning scoring titles. Yeah. Right. Winning defensive player of the year titles. scoring titles, winning defensive player of the year titles.

Usually when a coach takes you to the Eastern Conference Finals, which is further than you went the year before and further than you went the year before that, you're on a positive trajectory moving towards greatness. You ride with that. The fact that Kraus was willing to take that risk at that point in time ultimately would be his downfall, but was the reason why he should be considered a great. Because he's willing.

He is a great. He's one of the GOATs. He's willing to shake shit up and roll the fucking dice on an offense nobody knew, this Tex Winter triangle offense, right? And a coach that really wasn't proven yeah he really wasn't he calls in puerto rico and in the fucking cba now we look back and go it was probably nice but at the time he's some hippie that he had to tell how to dress right yeah it is you got to give some credit for this guy willing to roll the fucking dice most

people are not willing to roll the dice most Most people go, man, if this goes badly, this is my career. I'm out of here. Yeah. I get fired because I made this move that fucked up this organization. It was on this positive trajectory. I pissed off Michael Jordan by firing Michael Jordan's favorite coach. He loved Doug. They're kissing each other and shit.

And then hire the guy he doesn't like that's going to take the ball out of his hands. What? Like you do something like that and it works of course you're gonna trust every decision you make of course when you think it's time to trade scotty pippen you're gonna be like it's trying it's time to trade that motherfucker you get credit for that but you also we can't credit everybody who swallowed their ego and then be like nah it's cool the guy who couldn't swallow his ego blew the whole thing up ultimately the same thing that crushed you built an empire and then tore down the empire and then couldn't build the same thing built it though yeah the same thing built it and the same thing tore down and it's sad but if you don't have that fucking ego ego

you don't get there you don't get those pieces you don't get that offense you don't get all these different things and i completely understand the owner reinsdorf now i completely understand why he was kind of silent and all this shit because i really truly believe he was like man every time this fat motherfucker says something crazy it ends up working out all right bro i'll hear you out you can at a certain point in time you gotta trust it when you go get scotty pippen he ends up being one of the greatest players you know i mean you get phil jackson ends up being one of the greatest coaches when you go get tony kukoc he ends up changing the game in a way when you get robman it ends up fucking working out like they end up actually being able to win with him he ends up working within the system

eventually you just gotta go this guy knows what he's doing yeah i just think if think if you win a championship, you got to defend the championship until you lose. Agreed. If you lose and then fill us out, that's a little wild. But hey, man, I get it. You didn't win. If you win, you got, and again, this is, as a Mavericks fan, you got one championship and then you blew up the team. And I'm just like, you just got to defend that.

You probably wouldn't have won next year. You need to find out. Especially if you got Jordan. I have a suspicion. But he is great though undeniably he's great he just made just a he fucked it up so you're gonna be penalized for that when you look i agree i have a suspicion what i feel like kraus was 100 certain that jordan was not back. And he had this information and he trusted that information because if Jordan was willing to come back, he could call Reinsdorf and say, fire Krause. And he could do that in a heartbeat. The fact that he didn't make that call, the fact that he didn't say, hey, I want to come back. I'll come back for a couple more years.

Keep Phil. We'll rock this out. The fact that he never made that call and never spoke about that when they asked him every single day is because he knew he was gone after this year. I think he told Phil that he was gone after this year, and that's why Phil signed the one year. I think Jerry knew, and I think Kraus knew. Maybe he never spoke to Kraus about it. Jerry Reinsdorf, no.

Maybe he never spoke to Reinsdorf, but I think Kraus had on good authority that this was Jordan's last year, and he had decided that. I don't think Jordan would tell Krause if he was leaving. No, no. He didn't tell him. He just had on good authority. He had his little people sniffing around.

Maybe he heard from another agent. He got his own sniffers. He got his own sniffers. He got sniffers, right? I think he knew and he was so confident of that. He was like, I'm not going lock in phil when i know for a fact jordan's not coming back and jerry knew jordan wasn't coming back and everyone else knew jordan wasn't coming back so he's like fuck it i'm out all right done you know what i think though

also if you could swallow your ego you get phil back one more year and then say convince michael to come back yeah because i think if phil went to michael and was like hey let's let this ride until it's done yeah i think michael would have been like all right fine 100 it's also a man too a testament to phil these guys fucking love phil man once you've played for phil and you're a great player you don't like playing for anybody else he's in your soul man it's like a therapist you love you know like you build like a bond with them and you're like, because they've given you so much great shit for your life and they've improved your life in so many ways. Like you really have an affinity for them.

He was a therapist. The X's and O's, like you said, is 10%. He was sitting down with these guys. What did Rodman say? He's a friend. Yeah. I consider him one of my great friends or something like that.

Or I'm one of Phil's great friends. Either way, he felt that bond. Yo, that great picture of them like sitting there like just watching tape yeah just watching tape together also phil built the worst in history phil built like a fucking t-rex i've never seen that guy stand straight up a motherfucker is always like this after he finished playing his entire fucking coaching career his entire everything he was at at least 45 degree angles. At least T-Rex got a short arm to prop him back up a little bit.

Phil got these long ass fucking gorilla arms just dragging everywhere. And those shoulders, bro. He's just an odd looking, odd looking individual. He looks like how you used to draw people when you were a kid. Just like the middle spot and just like stick arms, stick legs. It's a really weird body but just a weird fucking body but a compelling figure man a compelling figure you know what Shaq was so spoiled by Phil's greatness when he went to Miami he got Stan Van Gundy fired and made Pat Riley

step in remember that I forgot that Pat Riley coached that Riley coached him midway through the year fired step of Jeff Stan Van Gundy stepped down and was like, I'll take over. And they won the championship. I thought it was a fucked up move or whatever, but they won the championship. Beat the Mavericks. That was Pat Riley. Interesting. Oh, wow.

I forgot that. Another cool little Pat Riley story, just in terms of motivation. Yeah. Mavs are up 2-0. They're up 16 in the fourth quarter. Pat Riley calls a timeout, I think. And then all he does his whole huddle apparently and i'm sure this is romanticized a bit but on the whiteboard all he

did was just write season and then he just showed that to them season your season is on the line right now what are you gonna do this is the season five minutes left what are you gonna do that's that's no play drawn up no hey this is how we get back in the game and to your point again 90 is not x's and O's. It's people and motivating people. You just write season on a board and remind them, if you lose this game, your fucking season is over. And then apparently in game six, all he was saying at every time out,

I think I read this in a Bill Simmons article years ago, was like, he was talking to him like it was a heavyweight fight. They're tired. They can't hang. Just keep beating them up. Keep beating them up. There was no like this play, that play, this play. It's just the psychology

of go for the knockout right now. Yo, what did you think about the Pistons like bully ball, bad boys thing? I loved it. Do you think that they exaggerated that? I don't.

Is that how? Everything I've seen, that's a very real thing. That's like they beat up Jordan. There was a book that the Parkinson's looking ass guy, Sam Smith. Yeah. He wrote a book called The Jordan Rules about this. Uh-huh.

Also, what's his deal? They talk about it in the doc. It's just like, we did not want Jordan getting off the ground. Yeah. So it's like, the moment he jumps, foul the shit out of him. So he doesn't want to jump anymore. Yeah, there was some assistant coach trying to say like all the other rules. Like if he goes to the air, you force him.

If he goes baseline, you force him toward the center. If you go this way, you do this. And then Rodman's like, if he gets in the air, you knock his ass down. Hurt him. Hurt him. Well, I thought that was actually kind of cool editing that they did because that assistant coach then ends up saying the real rule. He goes, those are the only Jordan rules.

And then he goes, and then the interviewer goes, what happens if Jordan goes baseline? And then he just stops for a second and he goes, that's when Lambert and Mahorn got a hammer. I knew it. I didn't notice that. That shit was fire. Because he tried to front like there was no Jordan rules.

And then he goes to the basket and goes, oh, it's hammer time. And I don't think they're exaggerating. I don't think Jordan is making up that meant more to me than winning the finals in some ways. You remember he said beating the Pistons in a lot of ways meant more to me than winning the finals. This is how big of a deal it was. Before there was any internet, before there was any trolling, did you see the shirt Jordan wore after they beat the Pistons? What it said? No.

After they beat the Pistons, they're all on the bus or whatever the team playing jordan's shirt what does it say three pete there was no three pete for the bulls you know who was going for a three pete oh the piston i didn't realize that i thought i thought it said something about the sweep no maybe i maybe i misread or maybe it was other footage but i'm pretty sure i read three pete and he's wearing like a jacket over it but that's he's taking the pistons three p shirt and wearing it after they beat him wow and this is not for the media this is not for online trolling oh yeah bothered this is just fuck y'all fuck you all the way home anybody that does not believe in him bothers remember the writers he goes we took care of you blah blah blah you'll be taking care of you

tonight and i heard that story years ago too too. So I know that's true. You, you, you tonight. I love the when they tell a story in this and then you hear it from so many other people's point of view. And it's like it's so accurate. Like it adds so much credibility to this doc. It's like, oh, yeah, that's exactly how it happened. I just love that. It's like.

So I know I'm watching this shit and this is exactly how it went down they're not trying to feed me some bullshit because it's more more sources you're saying yeah dude there's a great book called The Dirt

I don't know if you guys heard of it it's about Motley Crue yeah and they tell the same story of their like rise to fame from each of their perspectives there are four guys

in a band right and a little bit from like the manager's perspective etc and they were so drug induced and like drunk the entire time the story's completely changed right so like one story is like so yeah like you know um the lead singer takes this girl back into the room and starts like fucking this girl in the bathroom and like it was crazy and

like open the door we're all watching etc like that i mean it was one of the craziest nights of her life and then like the story is being told from like the the basis point of view and the base like yeah it was crazy like he took our manager's girlfriend into the bathroom and starts fucking and the manager was like yeah i had to break up with that girl after that like they're being honest in their recollection but it's so drug induced and and this speaks to that as well it's like no no everybody's hyper focused this is like the opposite you're this is what happened this is how we felt like john paxton whenever he's talking yeah like ultimate humility by the way yeah john paxton got no ego right he's like i you know i was hitting some shots i felt kind of good it's like yeah you're a knockdown fucking shooter yeah i sense confidence yeah i sense confidence i sense like he was like

yeah i mean i knocked him down that's what i do i'm not jordan i'll knock down my fucking shot yeah yeah yeah oh i don't think he's unconfident but he wasn't like uh egotistical about it yeah right like he knew his role he's a role player yes he's actually the ideal role player i have the utmost confidence in my role. Yes. Like the opposite of Horace Grant. Horace Grant felt like he had to like talk himself up a little bit. What was that about? Horace and MJ, there was another, I think it's like Michael Jordan to the max or some

shit. I want to watch it. That's the IMAX joint. I had a whole DVD, the ultimate Jordan collection. Yeah, yeah, yeah. At one point. But Horace Grant, I'm gay. Horace Grant says something like, they're about how mean michael was and horace was like michael says some really awful things to me

really just like basically he was like i can't unhear the things that he said to me and he looked heart yo he looked heart i felt for the guy i'm like this guy hurt you to win three rings and still hate this guy and that's why he barely commenting on mike and it's funny to hear mike's retelling with that background and mike is like i told horace you know i mean you can't pitch a fit these guys these that's when they sense weakness remember they said uh horace was like mike was right but the second i would complain the pissing scene they got me uh mike would tell me that and he was right and michael was like you know i gently explained to horace that you know hey man if you want to win this game you know mike ain't saying like that i was letting

maggots fly yo yeah man up but horse that's why he left first of all he's gonna get paid more orlando but i think he was done with mike like i'm not doing this anymore he got my vacation too yeah he needed a vacation it's hard to maintain that focus man was this like a preview for the next episode or did this happen in the episode when he said Horace was leaking information to the media? I think that was next episode. Grab you next episode.

I didn't see it. Okay, so it's like, yeah. And then Horace completely denies it. He's like, no, I never said a word to the media. But the way MJ said it,

he was like, oh yeah, it was Horace. Like when they knew there was a rat in the locker room. See, that's another thing though where it's like, MJ is the kind of guy who would just be like, think it was horror so it was so so like with isaiah thomas remember he was like there's nothing you could do to convince me otherwise you could show me the video oh yeah

and then he's just and horror and isaiah thomas's point about that handshake is when one dynasty gets beat by another dynasty you you don't have to do the humble thing. You can just walk off. Yeah. And MJ's like, that's bullshit. Look at the time that they beat me. Yeah. And I was like, you missed the whole point Isaiah was saying.

Yeah. The point is, when a dynasty passes the torch, they don't do like a humble handshake thing. They just walk off. Did you buy that? I thought that was like revisionist history. I bought that. I do think Isaiah's a pretty phony guy, but that, I was like, oh, I can believe that. I can believe Larry Bird. shake thing they just walk off did you buy that i thought i bought that history i bought that i do think isaiah is a pretty phony guy but that i was like oh i could believe that i could believe larry

larry burr i bought it because they it happened to the right that's the only reason why he's like that's what that's what happened to us that's what we're gonna do for you now i don't think bill lambert was like let's give it to them the way the celtics gave it to us like it was humble i think bill lambert was like nah we don't need to shake their fucking hands that's we don't have to do that nobody did that for us fuck them i think it was more like that yeah i guess i just figured like you would remember the last year and the year before that where jordan walked up to y'all and like shook your hands and was like yo they beat us they were a better team like i don't know for me that's what i would remember i can also and like you

know it's like fraternity hazing where nobody likes it but you're like fuck that happened to me Magic Johnson didn't do it for whom? for Jordan right Magic Johnson went up to Jordan in the fucking in between the lockers and like gave him a hug it's an iconic pic like to act I think Isaiah Thomas would kind of act like this was acting like this is the

culture of the time it wasn't because the team that won the most at that time didn't do it well they weren't the opportunity to do it but they there was no real rivalry there that was the first time they played and the other thing was at that point that had become such a big story the the pistons not shaking hands if you're magic and you're a savvy guy you're not gonna be like well fuck it i'll do the same thing let's both be in the shit you're gonna do the opposite of your maybe maybe okay yeah i'm so happy for him but yo jordan was tight off of that yo he looks so nice he was tight he's an asshole he cursed he's like you're not gonna convince me he was

an asshole yeah that's why he hates him to this day do they he didn't kiss the ring that's what i think he seems phony to me who like he's isaiah like he's just two smiles and two smiles yo son i saw this guy walking uh i think with his wife or something i lived used to live by the theater district and i saw them like walking out of a play this is like five years ago this guy looks fucking incredible oh yeah yeah best skin i've ever seen on a human being teeth perfect yeah look i was almost like yo man mj is wrong y'all i literally was in that moment like man fuck it fuck mj guy just looked happy and nice and he kind of looked at me and then i looked at him and then he was like ah fuck do i have to talk to this guy i can

tell that i was looking at his face and he's just i was like i'm gonna just let him be but i want to yeah any other thoughts i just like when he said um he's like oh yeah i don't think i've i've never been swept i usually do the sweeping yeah oh yeah and i think that's part of the reason why they didn't uh give him a handshake at the end of the game ah because he's like i've never been oh yeah that's a big ego blow i've never been beat like this so it's like he just handled it wrong he said he took it back he said he would he would have done it different but he also said which i like and this is honest he was like if i had known what was going to happen after i would i would have shaken

his hand yeah which is like i didn't want to deal with all this nonsense after yeah not i i regret my decision it wasn't a fake apology it was like he still needs some self-awareness to realize that yeah like even though it's not just dealing with the media the fact that it's like okay i probably handled this the wrong way and credit to him question go ahead the uh when they froze jordan out at the all-star game it was the all-star game they froze him out yeah that was when before that before what is this i don't know so do you familiar i've heard it's not necessarily true, but go ahead. Apparently, Isaiah Thomas tells everybody on the Eastern All-Star team, Eastern Conference All-Star team, to not pass MJ the ball.

Oh, word? Yeah. Now, I guess this happened prior. MJ is convinced again that happened. Isaiah is like, no, the All-Star game, you always want to beat the other conference. Also, if you watch the game, he's touching the ball like he's not nobody's not passing to him he's touching the ball within the flow of the game yeah um also everyone there is an all-star they want to get their shots up like yeah maybe jordan just wasn't used to being around other people that also want to shoot

and also could create their own shot yeah and like we'll look you off like jordan never got looked off his entire career when you're in the all-star game jordan's like here here it's like i can shoot too i'll pull up in jordan's mind and probably rightfully so if you look him off that shit is on purpose you got a personal problem with me to look me off motherfucker you got your goddamn mind looking me off bro there's there's a point where uh jeremy lim was on the lakers and hit a game-winning three yeah and. And he looks off Kobe. He waves off Kobe. Do you remember that?

He waves off Kobe. And I remember watching that like, what the fuck is this guy thinking? Like, that to me was like the craziest thing an Asian has done on American soil over Pearl Harbor. Like, by far, by far, like Pearl Harbor, I was like, I can't believe that happened. When I saw Jeremy Lin do it, I was like, yo, these Asians are crazy, bro.

What is going on out here? Oh, fuck. Oh, my God. You know what, though? He did cook Kobe when he was at the Knicks, and they played the Lakers on national TV. He cooked the Lakers. I would say cook.

Did he cook? To be fair, Kobe beef is an Asian thing. That's true. He had a good game, but I don't know about cook. We did exaggerate how great Jeremy Lin was. Our expectations for him was just so low. I expected him to play worse than the white players. Jeremy Lin is the best New York Knick in the past 25 years.

Yo, get the fuck out of here, son. Listen, I think in a lot of ways, Jeremy Lin is... You gonna let that? No, no, well, let me make the point. He is, in a lot of ways, the coronavirus, because the way that it came and hit... It was ill. It hit so powerfully, and it took so many people down, but... And it was it was ill. It was so powerfully

and it took so many people down, but it was gone pretty quickly. It was gone pretty quick and we over exaggerated the effect. Do you know who was really into it? Asians. Everybody else was like, I think it's good.

Is it good? He's as close as we got, man. As an Indian, that's as close as we got. We social distance ourselves from Jeremy Lin. So God damn it. Yeah, it were. Man, an Asian can't even have a sick handle we got we social distance ourselves from Jeremy Lin so god damn yeah we're

man Asian can't even have a sick handle without you guys acting up unbelievable I love when you rep a big part of Asia

it's as close as I can get conveniently it's so convenient anybody close bro anybody close god damn right

it's so convenient shit is geographical you've never rep like Asian Asians. You know who else I rep? Manny Pacquiao. He would. He would.

He would. Oh, you would. I literally will look up what country is closer to India. And if that's who I like. Get the fuck out of here, son. That's who I like. That's my guy. I mean, real talk, it kind of makes sense, though.

It makes the most sense. It's like black people rooting for Africans. Yeah. Come on. That's way closer. Y'all share a continent. These motherfuckers also share a continent. They look nothing alike.

Yeah, the black people. Yes, we do. We just not as black. He said it. He said it. It's on record. He said it. Got him.

Oh, fuck. Bruh. Yo, go. Linsan Oh, fuck. Bruh. Yo, go. Lin Sanity. That was the guy. I need to see that 30 for 30. All right. I got my poster in my room.

That's going to be a two for two. That's how long that episode's going to be. You're not going to get the whole 30 minutes. You're not going to. I can't believe you as a Knicks fan, yo. Son, that shit. How are you a Knicks fan? He flared up and then that's it.

That's the only time the Knicks ever won. That's the only winning streak you had ever. Ruined by Carmelo Anthony's ego. Yeah, yo. He couldn't swallow his ego. He ain't do shit after. Because Melo broke him, yo. He was in the perfect system, perfect city, perfect team.

Honestly, it was the perfect system for him. D'Antoni loves a ball handling point guard that can get to the basket. Maybe didn't shoot as good as D'Antoni would like, but that is D'Antoni's system. Of course I wasn't mad at it. As a Knick fan, I was happy. You know what? That's what I understood. But the way motherfuckers exaggerate how nice he was. He was literally the greatest player

in the history of the league. He needs... I want to see a last dance about Jeremy Lin on the Raptors getting his ring. That's what I've documentary. That's right. Jeremy Lin got his ring. Yo, goats leave with chips.

L.O. ain't getting no ring, yo. Goats leave with chips. That's what they do. That's a fact. That's a fact. If you a goat, you get a chip and you out, yo. Yo, that's a fact, bro. Wow.

Fact. Think about that. What else? I don't think it counts if you're not starting. If you're not starting five, your ring don't count. Say again? If you're not starting five, your ring don't count say again if you're not starting five your ring

don't count are you talking about the Manu Ginobili nah Manu Ginobili earned that ring well one of them Jeremy Lin is the Manu Ginobili

of the Toronto Raptors last year in spirit in spirit what year was it last year he wasn't even six man off the bench

son what year was it last year in the Chinese Zodiac I don't know what year is it last year in the Chinese Zodiac? I don't know. What year is it this year? I don't know. Look it up, Mark. What is it?

What is it? No, no. What is it? It's bat. You're the germ? What year is it last year? What year was it last year? Hurry up, Mark.

Mark, are you going using a dewey decimal system is the year of the pig it was a year of the pig last year year of the pig right hurry up now what is it year this year what is it the year of the rat year the rat swine flu now we got wait is it rats it's bats bats that was close i thought's bats bats I was close I thought I was close I was close

that's all bad I don't think if you set up confidence it'll work I think it would've you're the rat what is it this year what is the virus

the bat you're the bat yeah you're the bat third eye third eye look at that third eye I'm already having to

open it up there guys that's been the review Of episodes three and four Of The Last Dance Anything else you want to comment on Akash We're not watching the leaks

We're gonna watch it live With the rest of the world Yeah Watching that shit live Anything else you want to say Akash Any other comments you want me to make No

Nothing I got in my nose Mark you have any observations No I thought they were just funny quotes. Like what? Like when Phil Jackson walks in and goes, yo, Dennis, you want to play for the Bulls? He goes, yeah, I don't know.

What's up? Oh, yeah. Oh, you know what was interesting that I wanted to point out, actually? Yes. The same celebration after they beat the Pistons, they're all dancing on the plane. Scottie is dancing with his suit on, and then Jerry Krause comes and starts dancing behind him.

And everybody's just like, all right all right man people didn't like him that was a there was friction for a long time with jerry kraus now i think it's part of what makes made him great at the time was i don't really give a fuck but from what pippin made fun of right after like jerry you think you need to sit down or something like that it's hard to love fat ugly people man that's just what it is if you're humble and nice and jolly we love you more for it but if you're like bitter and kind of like curmudgeon-y we hate you for it i think it's very difficult to be a gm and be liked by your team because i don't think so in my opinion because it is your job to assess their talent yeah and fire them when a better situation comes on board and one of the things about friendship that defines friendship is the loyalty regardless of the situation so it's like if someone is your

friend and then you meet someone who is funnier you know what i mean or you meet someone who's like fucking stronger you meet somebody you don't stop being friends with that person you're like i like you so i'm a ride with you and you're my friend forever yeah in basketball doesn't work that way it's like oh if i met someone who could dribble the ball better and has a better physique and does all these things better you are fucking gone you're the camaraderie of a team is we does all these things better. You are fucking gone. You're dead to me. But the camaraderie of a team is we went to war together. So you're taking my fucking war buddy away.

I think it's wrong for Kraus to want to be part of the gang. But that's why I think that's where Kraus' ego, if you're a great GM, you also got to say these guys won't ever like me. They won't ever give me my respect. That's the price I pay for being great. I agree with you right there. Like you're saying, I think both of you are kind of saying the same thing. You're like, don't be friends with all these motherfuckers.

And what Akash is saying is Krause didn't have that ability. He couldn't not want to be liked by MJ or not want to be liked by Scotty, these guys. He wanted them to like him. He wanted them to appreciate him. And a great fucking GM is going to go, hey, I got to do my job. In order for me to do my job well, I have to separate myself from you. And you see that a lot of times with like some bosses especially in corporate settings they don't get too close to the people that work on purpose yeah 100 it's gonna affect my decision

making if i get too close it's hard for me about to do that i could never lead like that because we spend so much time together i can't not be best friends with you guys you guys are with me for my whole life yeah so this shit grew and it's like 100 employees there's no way you're gonna be close to 100 people yeah but i could be close to my top guys like i have because because the way i've been i've been thinking about this and i is like just like i've been thinking, does Jordan have any friends? You don't, you want to be Jordan, but you don't want to be old Jordan. The guy don't look happy.

I mean, he's bloodshot eyes all the time. He's fucking, just like, he just, man, that don't seem like. There's a cost. Yes. There's a cost to greatness. And like, I was talking to my guys last night in the group chat about this. There's a cost of greatness. And like I was talking to my guys last night in the group chat about this. And I was just like, man, I see. I recognize real time the things that I have to sacrifice to get what I want.

Right. Like I want to wear the belt. Yeah. I want to be the greatest at stand up. Right. And I want to hold that position for a time. And I have this like maniacal focus for for doing that right but i also recognize the cost of that is not seeing my family a lot not last time me and the homies

went out to dinner i can't remember you know what i mean like yeah it's like and i'm talking about like my high school boys or my college boys so it's like i'm in this situation where i know what i want and i will make these sacrifices in order to get it. But I still need to have the camaraderie of friendship. Like that shit is so valuable for me. So I could never work with someone that I don't enjoy being around. For me, I couldn't do it because I know the cost. I know what I have to sacrifice in order to do this.

So I can't just go, oh, yeah, that person's really cool. Put them there. I hate them. I'm not order to do this so i can't i can't just go oh yeah that person's really cool put him there i hate him i'm not gonna do it because what then all of a sudden i'm on an island you know what i mean like i think i don't know i don't know where jordan stands with that maybe jordan could maybe jordan was like i don't care about none of these motherfuckers even earlier in his career right he was like they were all doing drugs and shit i was just by myself in the room his first practice i need to find who the leader is and i didn't take that motherfucker out that's his whole mentality but it don't would you rather be larry bird who seems relatively happy and is one of the goats for the rest of your life or mj and you're the greatest ever but you don't seem happy ever

no like bird bird yeah like because bird wore the belt like my feeling is like you just have the you just have to wear you don't have to but like you have to wear it for your generation you know what i mean you have to wear it for a point in time it's like i look at it like boxing or like you know wrestling or like mma or one of these things like wearing that belt at a point you you have to wear that belt in a time in history you know what i mean because at the end of the day we look at jordan as the goat now people will not eventually just like bill russell was looked at as the goat and they won't time moves on you forget the greatest war general who knows who the fuck it was maybe we look at the greatest war general as alexander or napoleon or something like that i'm sure back

in the day there was some other motherfucker ca Caesar. Fuck Larry Bird. LeBron. The guy we always say he's second. Jordan's first. LeBron is second. LeBron and his wife are solid. I mean, I'm sure he gets what he gets, and she's cool with that, and they got a wonderful agreement, and his kids love the fuck out of him. He's got friends.

His teammates love the fuck out of him. Would you rather be the second best, and everybody loves you, and you have like a full life or i was the greatest and i gave up literally everything his kids don't i don't really see his kids talking about him like that i guess i guess like what were you gonna say mark no oh i thought you were bringing the mic the i guess what i guess what i'm saying is like we look at him as the second best but there's a generation of people beneath us that grew up with him yeah like we grew up with jordan to see him as the best so best is subjective to time and that's why i feel like you just got to wear it if that's what you want if that's the goal wearing it because once you wear it history will dictate history documentaries conversation pieces like kareem abdul-jabbar

should be in the conversation but history has not been kind to him yeah right so history will dictate that narrative yeah you know and you can control that while you're alive and then after you're dead is very difficult to control that but if you wear the belt it's undeniable like it's undeniable you know what i'm saying yeah no you know i was just thinking you know who gets even more impressive as you watch this documentary though is kobe because kobe had the same jordan mentality i i don't i'll never be a guy no disrespect to kobe but jordan is always better to me yeah but after kobe retired he said how do i harness this and it became business and family and that's what it's going to be and like now you have a well-rounded greatness

yo you you're 100 right about that man like kobe didn't have friends until he stopped playing ball like and nobody wanted to say this while you know everybody was doing the um the rest in peace kobe rounds but the reality is nobody had a good kobe story like i defy you to find someone who had his kobe story that didn't end in and then he went to work out or i went to the gym he was already there like literally every story about kobe it's not something funny he said it's not a practical joke it's not something crazy it's he was working out and once he retired though you started hearing these stories now and he says i had to figure out how to harness that and the fact that he did that is

the the best gift you could give the game for every other athlete because you don't want to retire like jordan yo i'm telling you my man just looks son attacked retirement the same tenacity that you attacked a career like i'm actually i'm actually looking forward right like i'm looking forward to that point in our careers where like, nah, I'm not even considering it now, but eventually the same tenacity that we're attacking this business and the same tenacity that we're attacking content and podcasts and stand up doing all these things.

Like eventually when we let it go, right, which we will, how do we attack just living? Like how do we attack just accepting a lovely day and enjoying that and spend some time with grandkids like how do we how do we change our mindset from what do i need to do how do i take over how do i you know move the business in this direction how do i you know get bigger etc how do you shift that to how do i do nothing you know they're like buddhist approach maybe yeah or enjoy

the fucking family which is like bro i can't imagine and jordan says in the speech i would hate to be my kids you know who didn't hate to be kobe's kids was kobe's kids like once he retired and luckily the career span of basketball is short enough that you can retire while your kids are young for the most part yeah but like they dude they're that was dad fuck mamba that's dad yeah to me and to jordan's kids that's mj that's his airness that's whatever then that's dead it seems like i just don't hear you know i mean i don't hear it maybe it's there and we'll talk about it but you're right man it is a it's an interesting thing interesting to sacrifice for but like maybe that's what some of these like some of these old folks

you know like world war world war ii vets and shit world war one well world war one vets i think are dead now but world war ii vets like you see these like veterans from wars right and um for whatever reason you don't hear about the same like ptsd struggles with them that you do for the modern soldier and i'm not really sure what that is i'm not sure why i'm just kind of like throwing things out right now but like maybe they came back and maybe they lived in an era where one they were really appreciated for what they did they were rewarded for what they did and like um they were treated like heroes you know also maybe there's something to the fact that they came back

and thought that it was their job to fulfill that American dream. Okay, I'm going to get my house. The American dream was I'm going to get my house, I'm going to get my dog, I got my wife, and I got my kids. It wasn't I'm going to become a billionaire. It's much easier to obtain that American dream of house and dog than it is billionaire. And kind of tying it back to the Phil thing.

Humans are tribal. So if you got a tribe, if I got a family that's together and the tribe is together, that will help me through a lot. Yeah. Whereas now it's like, look, me and the girl having problems. We broke up. She got the kid, whatever. I'm alone.

And now you're alone. And it's fucking loneliness will eat away at anybody. But if it's the 50s, that wasn't a thing. You came back. You had your wife. You had your kids. We're together. And even if there's problems, that's got to help me on some level.

Yeah. I wonder how long it was before wives started nagging. How long before a husband came back from World War II before a wife nagged? I don't think they had the freedom to get in the mouth back then. You know what I mean? You got to go back to the caveman. Say again? You got to go back to the caveman.

What do you mean? That's when wife started nagging. No, but like how much time between when the husband came back from World War II, right, was in the house chilling before the wife started nagging? I think you're forgetting there were some checks and balances in place back in the 50s. What do you mean? I mean, the wife is nagging. There's, I mean. No, there was nagging and balances in place back in the 50s. I mean, the wife is nagging. You know what I mean?

No, there was nagging. Yeah. There was always nagging. There's also, you know what I mean? I mean, you're not going to beat your wife up because of how great she's been. I'm not justifying hitting women. I'm just saying the wife doesn't go, here's a souffle. You know, bitch, that's a casserole.

I'm not justifying it either. I'm just saying there was an option. You know what I mean? But you nagging. Oh, okay. I have an option an option right right but now the option's off the table but the nagging is there oh yeah yeah so what i'm asking the question i'm asking it so you agree nagging what was the hang time between returning from war and nagging you give your girl a ring you propose that's gonna buy you x amount of time before she starts bitching about dumb shit three weeks three weeks i think three weeks our attention span nowadays especially when instagram is shit

like the attention span is gone so they come back from world war ii you don't think there was some nagging in the postcards say again i got it in the postcards that were sent to them while they were at war it's like when you go wrap this war up already it's just so hard at home without you you know the kids are just really making things tough i wonder if it's different because the women had to take over all the man's jobs so they realized how hard it was to be a man he came back she was like man that job sucks and you're like oh you think this job's something try killing hitler ah interesante they were so grateful maybe that's why they were like kissing and shit when the husbands got home because i'm done working

factory yeah spring break my hands are so tired yeah i don't want to play softball anymore they had these bitches playing baseball a league of arrow that's how bored motherfuckers were like bitches come out there and play some baseball that's some quarantine type shit right there right now in quarantine if the only sports that were going on was women's sports would you watch

no depends the sport volleyball I watch porn is that a sport why don't we just consider women's porn a sport bro like it's not it's not a sport in the same way wrestling is not a sport you know how it finishes yeah you do you do know how it finishes i give you that but like i think it should be considered sport for the women well i think only lesbian porn could be a sport no but go on go on the point no way but let's hear this out i'll hear i'll hear you

because then it's like then you're competing within your own league you know i mean if you have guys also competing in the league then it's not then it's like hoed it's like a rec league see yes but also if you remove the guys like i look at the guys like, you know, the pole vault. Yeah. That's the guy. Oh, is the pole? The pole. Exactly. So he'd be putting in work.

I think the guys put more work in than the women. Come on, son. Come on, son. It's usually them thrashing and the woman just has to make these stupid ass noises. That's really what most. They got to take the pie. Yeah. They just got to take it. Yeah.

But taking a pipe is hard, dude. It's not, son. It is, bro. Son, I do it every time. Anyway, guys, we wanted this episode to be an hour. It is what it is. You're welcome. For some more Last Dance content.

That's episode three and four. We'll be back next Monday with episode five and six. Do we know what it's going to be about? I saw the preview, right? Yeah. The only thing I saw was the media. With the Horace Grant.

Yeah. All right. Let's see, man. We appreciate y'all. Thank you. Enjoy and hope you're staying good in this quarantine. We'll see you tomorrow

with another episode of flagrant to peace.