Andrew Schulz's Flagrant with Akaash Singh - The Last Dance: Episodes 7 & 8

Episode Date: May 11, 2020

This week Andrew Schulz, Akaash SIngh, and AlexxMedia discuss episodes 7 & 8 of the ESPN docuseries, The Last Dance (Michael Jordan Doc). INDULGE! Want an extra episode a week? Join the Flagrant Army www.Patreon.com/FLAGRANT2

What time is it? Game time! What's up, everybody? Welcome to the episode seven and eight. Seven and eight. Seven and eight review of The Last Dance. My favorite episodes of the series so far. Why did Jordan cry when he was explaining what he had to do to win

and whether or not he would be remembered as a nice guy by his teammates. I've thought about this. I think there's something like you motherfuckers, you motherfuckers don't get it. Like you sit here and you fucking judge me. Yeah. And essentially, it's like he doesn't even get to enjoy all the shit that he did. Like him being the greatest was for everybody else from for him it's just blood sweat tears sacrifice sacrifice sacrifice hard work hard work hard work

and now i'm 50 and i'm 60 and i'm super competitive and i have nowhere to put this i did this for you and you sit there and fucking judge me like who worked harder than jordan does he feel judged do you think that's where it comes from i think he feels underappreciated i think he feels judged i think he feels like people tell me i'm so competitive and i'm and i'm an asshole teammate and this and that y'all don't y'all don't know what the fuck it takes to be this yeah it's it's i don't know it was i couldn't fully figure it out because i it caught me i said were you surprised when he started crying i was like where did that come from so just to clarify every but for everybody listening, there's a moment in the documentary. I forget which episode it was.

End of episode seven. We treat both of the episodes like they're the same episode. It's one episode. And it's the end of episode seven. Yeah. And I think the interviewer asks him, how do you feel about the perception that you might not be a nice guy? Yeah.

Right? And he goes, yeah, maybe I'm a tyrant, or maybe I goes yeah maybe i'm a tyrant you know or maybe i'll be looked at as a tyrant etc and people call me all these names but you've never won anything you're like people who say that you don't know anything yes you don't know what it takes which is a bar but he's for me he's starting to get a little defensive here yeah right i've rarely seen jordan explain himself but you're starting to see him explain himself in his documentary you rarely see greats explain themselves themselves and then he starts to go into this feeling of like what he had to do in order to win and he goes listen i wanted to win don't get me wrong but i also wanted them to have that as well i don't

know if i believe that i don't believe that i don't believe it either so he wanted to win he knew what it took for him to win yeah and he felt this was the only way to win and this is how he was going to get the most out of the guys with him and if they couldn't handle it get the fuck out of there and then he says that line where he goes uh this is how i play the game and if you want to play you can get out of here let me take a break and he starts crying yeah i think you're starting to see um the effects of of life and old age right on the effects of mortality i think jordan at one point in time was immortal and i think that he had this godlike presence right and what happens is when you see that people no longer view you in the same godlike way you start to be accountable

for your actions. Right? Like when you really think about Jordan, like he's cursing all these people that he just made 100% more times their salary for them. Yeah. Right? Judd Bushler is not getting paid what he got paid

prior to Michael Jordan being in the league, along with everybody else. Every NBA player today makes more because of Michael Jordan 25 years ago. 100%. So he knows what he's offering an organization. He knows what he's offering all these players. So he's demanding the most out of them. He sees that as the only pathway to victory, and that's fair. And I want to get into another conversation about are there other pathways to victory. But I really think you're starting to see like when he walked around before, this was literally God. i think now jordan can walk

around a bit i think now jordan can go to the country club i think he can go maybe he's not going to malls but i don't know if kids are looking at jordan the same way we did you know it's crazy because i had this thought and i just had it and didn't think anything of it yeah i thought about meeting someone someone had like a picture of michael jordan on his cell phone 15 years ago or something like how the fuck were you even around him and i yesterday i was like you know what i would be awestruck for sure if i saw michael jordan yeah but it wouldn't be the same level of i don't know how to function as a human being at all right now he was a beetle yeah he was a beetle to people he was all the beatles yeah he was he was all the beatles he was yeah the most recognizable

person in the world at one point in time. And there's no doubt that he's recognizable now, but maybe he's starting to feel the effects of that mortality. And I think when you realize you're mortal, you realize what life is, you start going, oh, shit, did I hurt people? When you're caught up in the game, and I felt this even playing sports myself, like you get caught up in the game right and and i felt this even playing sports myself like you get caught up in the game you don't care if what you say to someone you're playing with hurts their feelings you don't care about any of these things and then after the game you're like fuck i should

call somebody that's jordan times a million yeah and i feel like now as he's watching the way people spoke to him i spoke about him as he he's watching what happened to people in their lives, and as he's seeing people actually as human beings, as he's kind of eliminated some of that competitive drive, because that's just what happens when you get older, I think he's starting to go, whoa, I might have fucking hurt people. And I think he's trying to justify it to himself. I think he's trying to go, this was the only way to win,

and this is how you had to do it. You know, the way I took it Jordan appears to be very sensitive and he sometimes he uses like what people say about him as motivation for whatever to win but when he doesn't have the game

or an outlet or a place to battle it he doesn't know how to handle it so like when they were accusing him of having something to do with his dad getting killed, like he couldn't channel that into winning a game to make him feel better. So I think that was a big part of the reason why he stepped away from the game. Right. And so I think with this, it's almost like he doesn't realize the way he navigates life

or the way he motivates himself is unlike anybody else. Like he thinks this is done. This is normal. If you want to win, if you want to be a champion, this is the way he motivates himself is unlike anybody else. Like he thinks this is done. This is normal. If you want to win, if you want to be a champion, this is the way you go about life. And then now to hear everybody and he's been hearing this for years. Oh, Jordan was rough. He was an asshole and shit like that. So imagine you're hearing this over and over and over.

There's nothing you can possibly do to change that perception. And in his head, he was like, nah, but I just wanted to win. Like, why is everybody else not thinking the way I think? And I think that's just frustrating for him. And that's probably why he cried. That's what I took from it. So something like if I win, everybody will be silenced. I don't have to be sensitive anymore because nobody will hurt me because I won all the time. You can't question me winning. Yeah. But now I won all the time and you still found a way to criticize me and I'm still sensitive

to the criticism. And I'm still sensitive to the criticism. And I can't just go out and beat you like I normally did because there's no way to criticize after I retired, he was a bad teammate. I can't go back in time and be a better teammate. We wouldn't have won probably. Yeah, I think what you realize is when you start to achieve certain things that you really want and you assume that certain things will come with that. Let's say you're like, oh, if I get famous,

then all these people are going to like me, right? Yeah. And then you start to realize like, oh, no, like my friends like me based on how I treat them. Right. And like the similarities we have and the love that they feel for me and the love they have. Like that's how friendship works.

It doesn't really matter if you win a championship ring and all these other things. And I think like once you remove yourself from competition, you start to realize like what the important things in life are. Yeah. You know,

and then maybe a little part of him is like, fuck, like I had a lot of relationships that I torched to get these rings and it was great

and I think I'm the best and all that kind of stuff, but man, it'd be cool to have some friends. Yep. It'd be cool to call these motherfuckers. I don't know if he's gotten to the point where all that kind of stuff but man it'd be cool to have some friends it'd be cool to call

these motherfuckers I don't know if he's gotten to the point where he realizes all of it outwardly though because he hasn't done the Kobe thing post retirement

where he channels everything into being a better person being a better father being whatever I think he realized it I think he's trying to fight it

okay he hasn't had the he hasn't come to grips with the truth yeah that's the emotional break the emotional break is he's still convincing himself he did the right thing. It's like maybe like, this is crazy to compare it to, but like, you know, maybe like a soldier that had to do some foul shit to survive in Vietnam.

But he was like, that's what it took. And we needed to win. And I needed to get my men home. So I had to blow up that hut but who was in the hut it didn't matter who was in the hut i need to do what it took you know what i'm saying and i think he views his life in that way and now as he reflects on it he's like the soldier going there might have been some fucking kids in that hut but i had to do what i had to do to save my platoon but i don't want to fucking kill. I don't think he ever had to worry that

because winning cures all. Right? Like, there's this thing about winning, man, where if you win, you are forgiven for whatever the fuck you had to do. We, to this day,

all of his teammates who hate him, there's really nobody on his team that likes him. They respect him. They don't like him.'s what i noticed this is actually but just just to finish the point so it's like they don't like him but they respect him yeah but they don't like him yeah right and i feel like because he won you get that respect but they don't

like the difference between winning and losing is michael j Chris Paul. Chris Paul is Michael Jordan if he never won. Nobody likes Chris Paul. Right. And few people respect him. Yeah. They're like, yeah, he's good, but he's not good enough to win.

He's definitely not good to talk to me like that. Right. Definitely not good enough to curse me out. Yeah. Nobody would have spoke like that to Jordan because they know.

Yeah. I must forgive you for this because we are here again. Right. Yeah. What were you saying? To to your point about him nobody really likes him i do think like bj armstrong was on the sports center after and he seemed to like he still liked jordan overall like he still likes him but you're watching this thing do you remember what it said for jordan's personal assistant the description of his best friend slash best friend yeah your best friend is your personal assistant yeah like something about that seems so fucking warped to me yep this is the guy that i have go get me cigars and and scotch right and that's my best

friend he like he's just my fucking lackey who's also my best friend yeah how many friends do you have i mean when the guy you pay to hang out with you is your best friend. He replaced his dad with another dad. Yeah. But he's like, now you have to be with me all the time. And the guy was like, okay. And that guy probably has kids. Yeah, yeah. Right?

But like, he was inserting these people into different roles in his life that he needed filled. Yeah. And it's a brilliant thing to do because he had that singular focus. I mean, it was genius. The guy's a genius. 100%. that singular focus i mean it was genius the guy's a genius but he is maniacal in his approach to the game and it's just i i guess it's a good time to have this conversation which is like is there another way to win if you compare jordan and his teams to the warriors yeah and i wish they

fucking asked steve kerr about this and i'm so pissed off they didn't like steve kerr was everybody at the warriors practice terrified it seems like the warriors are having like fun pickup basketball game they're having a time of their lives they're enjoying the game nobody on the bulls enjoyed playing on the bulls tony kukoc is visibly upset talking about his time with the bulls he doesn't smile one time and i know he's eastern european I thought he was just Croatian. No, I know that. But, no. There's a difference.

The guy looks upset. Every time he starts a sentence, like, I thought, well, I figured, he's like throwing his arms up. Oh, the last shot was for you. I've hit a lot of last shots this season. The guy does not look enthused to be on one of the greatest teams in history.

That's an issue. I didn't pick up on that when I saw that. You think Tony Kukoc seems happy? I don't think he's a happy person. Why not? Because he's Eastern European. Come on, but for real. I really saw that.

I was like, oh, he's fucking Croatian. Like, the guy lived in the Civil War. Vladi Divac, nonstop goofball. Eastern European, from the same place. Peja Stojakovic, goofball. Didn't Vladi get out before the Civil War? Say again? Didn't Vladi get out before?

Like, Tony Kukoc was stuck in the Civil War for two years. Yeah, he's making more money, but like, he's like, I want, I needed to be here or whatever, for whatever reason. Right. He's still in a country where there's civil war for a couple years. And I think he had a kid. And it's just like, how fun is anything at that point? And I don't see how.

I actually agree with you, Drew. I don't see how he could have enjoyed being on the team. They came at him at the Olympics. Two years later, he's on the team with the guy who hated him. The guy who they were using him as a fucking trading whatever. So how can you enjoy being on the team that you know the players there didn't like you initially to begin with? 100%.

So you never get close to the players there. You just learn to enjoy the experience. It was a job. That's the thing. And it was an unenjoyable job. But because they won, he's like, I can't leave this job.

But I don't think it was an enjoyable setting. If Steve Kerr, by the way, said, to your earlier point, if Steve Kerr said,

no, nobody was in fear and we still won. You know what Jordan would say? He also lost. I didn't lose. He did lose.

Once I started winning, it's over. I'm 6-0 in the finals. Y'all aren't.. He did lose. Once I started winning, it's over. I'm 6-0 in the finals. Y'all aren't. But he did lose, Jordan. Yeah, but once he got the taste of winning, give me a full year. Now we're moving the goalposts, right? If I have a full year, I can do this.

I mean, yeah, but that's not that. You're not moving it that far when a guy comes into the season in March and then plays in the playoffs in April. Yeah, I didn't realize he came back to the season with just five games left. No, it wasn't five games left, but it was like 10, 20. I think they were 40 and 30. Or like 41, 30. So maybe 10 games left.

It's not a lot of games. It's not a lot of games, absolutely. So you're not really moving the goalpost that far. Yeah, I mean, I don't really buy this whole, like, my body totally changed to play baseball. It's like you're still doing an athletic sport. Nah, I can agree.

My body was completely different. My shoulders and my back. I agree with that. Like, you are working completely different muscles. Sure, sure, sure. They know they're elite athletes.

That's fine. And maybe he needed every single thing to be perfectly in tune in his body to be successful. Endurance is the main thing. That's fine.

They don't have endurance. That's fine. Yeah, exactly. It's a different type of thing. And then they were tired. That's fair. I just't have endurance. That's fine. Yeah, exactly. It's a different type of thing. And then they retire. That's fair. I just feel like you didn't hear a single player in his team say they enjoyed playing the game of basketball with him. And B.J. Armstrong even said, he goes, he goes, one point he goes, in order to play with Michael, you got to really love the game of basketball. What does that mean?

I was telling. What does that mean? the game of basketball what does that mean i was telling what does that mean that means it's going to be so miserable being on michael jordan's team that if you don't have the deepest of love for the game you're not going to be able to put up with this shit you know i looked at in a whole different light because to that point oh scott burrell scott burrell to me was always just some fucking spare part you came you went whatever now look at this guy. Like, yo, you handled Jordan well. For a guy who's a fringe player in the league, Jordan would give him the most shit. And he would always just come right back at him.

And he still likes him. I was looking at him like a big-ass pussy. How do you just let somebody pick on you like that? Because he's the greatest player ever. What are you going to say? You still speak up for yourself. He just sit there and took that. Jordan will break you.

So? No, no, I don't see it like that. Kerr stuck up for himself? Actually, no. I don't see it like that with Burrell. I see it differently. I see a kind of like older brother, younger brother relationship with Jordan Burrell. And I think Jordan really liked Burrell.

relationship with Jordan Burrell. And I think Jordan really liked Burrell. I think that, I think when you look at that relationship, yeah, they took points where he was like, you're a bitch, you're a hoe, this, that, the other. But I also saw Burrell, yeah, it was playful. And I also saw Burrell like in Jordan's room more than anybody else. Now, listen, they're showing whatever they want to show, but like that little side room of the locker room that he had. And I feel like they had, and even you saw Jordan like busting his balls on the plane. Like, yeah, he's a wild guy. He's out there having sex with all these girls, this, that, the other. I think Jordan really likes Scotty Burrell.

And he says even in the interview, they're like, yeah, I couldn't break him. I just couldn't break this guy. I tried to get him to fight me. He just wouldn't fight me. And I think on a certain level, Jordan got respect from the guy that he couldn't get in his head jordan could break every jordan made made steve kerr punch him jordan forced that to happen now steve kerr had the ball to do it so they respect each other from it but jordan pushed him to the limit jordan couldn't get scott burrell to do that and i think that steve kerr that's like

the normally the key to getting jordan's respect is when he goes at you you fire back, that's like, normally the key to getting Jordan's respect is when he goes at you, you fire back. Yeah. That's the key. I cannot back down from you. Yeah. But Scott Burrell did it in his own way. I'm just going to be goofy.

And yeah, whatever, man. You can't phase me. I'm fine. Just, I'll fire right back at you. Yeah. And Jordan really seemed to like it. And it was cool to see this guy who, I didn't think, I remember watching Scott Burrell as a kid.

I didn't know basketball at all. I was like 10 years old. I i was like this guy's not good at all yeah but jordan loved the guy and he just yeah whatever i'm impervious to all this yeah steve kerr could back up his shit like he had a role but he was john paxton 2.0 just i'm gonna knock down all the open shots i'm not gonna play off hero i'm gonna hit it yeah there's i just wish that steve kerr spoke about that i wish that magic spoke about it i I wish that Bird spoke about it. How miserable were they and their teammates? When I talk about, or I've heard people talk about LeBron, they love playing with LeBron. They love playing with LeBron.

It's a great thing. Now, it is a different role. LeBron is more of a facilitator. And like the Bulls said, they love playing with Pippen the next season. Of course they love playing with Pippen because Pippen likes passing the ball. Everybody gets to put up shots. But I just wish there were other people who had won multiple championships

that could speak on how it was winning those championships with a joyous environment and atmosphere. And maybe they didn't get six like Jordan, but fuck it, three, and you actually enjoy your life playing basketball. That's way better. And this is where I'm talking about the cost. Jordan is the best player ever, widely regarded.

You can have some debate, mostly best player ever. These other guys had more fun, are not the best player ever. And I think Jordan is like, the cost to be that is this, and y'all don't get it. Is it though? I don't know if it is. I think to a large degree, you can't really argue with it.

But even if it's not, in his mind, I did this my way. You guys think I'm the greatest ever, and then you tell me I'm a bad teammate. Then you tell me I'm not a nice guy. Fuck. How do you think I got there? So somebody said this was,

was it Purdue? Maybe. I think Purdue goes, let's be honest. He's an asshole. He's a jerk. But he never asked you to do anything he wouldn't do himself or something like that. I thought Jordan said.

And then he goes, well, he said some other line. He goes, he was a great teammate. Yeah. He goes, he's an asshole. He's a jerk. Oh, but he got the most out of every single one of us by doing that. And because of that, he was a great teammate. And there is a difference.

Like, if you could, being a great general of an army doesn't necessarily mean everybody loves you. But if you get to go home to your family after the war and you won the war, you're a great fucking general.

And I think that's the way that he looked at it. He's just this fascinating fucking guy. And I wish we had another winner. I wish Steve Kerr. Steve Kerr's went through all of it. He went through Jordan. He went through the Spurs and Pop.

And he went through his own situation. He could have broken down the different ways to win a championship. I would fucking, I forgot about the Spurs. Because they weren't quite a dynasty. Yeah, because they were every other year. But fucking, I forgot about the Spurs because they weren't, they weren't quite a dynasty. Yeah, because they were every other year, but like, he got multiple rings

with the Spurs, bro, and is it worth losing once or twice to be happy? And I've been on the side where once you get there, you're never losing

and it's hell. And I've been on the side where for the most part, we're all having fun. We're all holding each other accountable. This is a team. You might lose every once in a while,

but you get multiple chips. Multiple chips. And you still have to sacrifice. Jordan made you sacrifice your soul and your ego. Yeah. The Spurs make you sacrifice. Your ego. Your ego.

But to a lesser extent. But you're not going to be a star. Yeah. But you're going to sacrifice your ego to a lesser extent. And the Warriors are the complete opposite. Right? It's almost like you're evolving or devolving whoever you want to look at it, right?

It's like the harshest environment, semi-harsh militaristic environment, but not dictatorship with like a tyrannical leader. And then freedom, democracy, capitalism. Yeah. You want to shoot from 35 feet up? Shoot from 35 feet? Yeah.

You want to shoot with 20 seconds left on the shot clock? Yeah, you might as well. Do whatever you want. We trust you're going to make the right decision. It's crazy to see that he came from those environments and chose happiness and joy and love as the best way to coach. Hey, Steph Curry, I remember I had a game that I couldn't miss, but I never shot like you it must be so great

is it feeling good right now remember when he was talking to him I remember there's a video clip of him saying to Steph Curry he's having a bad half or something he's like you know

what's great about you is you went one for 12 in this half and you're gonna get out there and you're gonna keep shooting and that's what I love about you and Jordan Jordan would've went up

to Steph Curry and goes you're not gonna eat on the plane bitch you're not gonna eat on the plane Jordan is a fucking sociopath 100 sociopath and that's why he won all the time and i just i don't i don't know how a sociopath functions when their means is gone like everything that got me what i wanted cool now i can't do it anymore so what now just large glasses of tequila yeah he's just he's just coping all the time also it's everybody

kept saying this is a jordan kind of like propaganda thing where it's like yeah they all say jordan will always address the other side like yeah people say i'm an asshole and then i get the last word on whether or not as an asshole and then we close with other people saying he's a great teammate blah blah yeah you know and i hear this like i had to retire because i was so tired and they had one reporter saying i just re-heard it he was so physically beat up before the olympics he told me he was gonna play yeah blah blah you know what would help you be less physically tired don't stay up late every night drinking and smoking and gambling and playing two rounds of golf before the fucking suns finals right you probably if you get a good night's sleep you're

probably not gonna be so tired yeah so we just play it up to mental fatigue i get but like oh physically he was just so beat up yeah the guy never rested he makes it a point to tell you he never rested maybe if you're rested stop fucking drinking all the time smoking cigars probably fucks up your sleep and your endurance yeah just get a good night's sleep treat your body right maybe you're not so physically tired yeah so a lot of this i'm noticing now it's still entertaining but this time i'm like oh okay i see the format of every other time I've been so entertained. I'm not thinking, but now I'm like, okay, I see how it's always. Was Jordan this?

Oh, no, he wasn't. Do you think he didn't think of that? No, he did it that way on purpose. I think his is, listen, I'm going to get the final word on everything. This is my production company. No, no, no. I mean, like, didn't think to sleep more. You think he just couldn't?

Like, for me, I look at him, he is like, he is the greatest competitor in history, right? And he's looking for a competitive advantage in every single way he can. Like, he has his trainer reshape his body depending on the sport that he wants to do. He knows that he needs to compete against the best to get back in basketball shape. So he has Space Jam built him a practice facility where he's playing. Like he's doing everything he can. I can't fathom that he would overlook sleep. I can't fathom that he wouldn't talk to like a sleep scientist and go,

how many hours do I need bare minimum for my body to recover and function in the right way? Tim Grover, as elite as Tim is. Yeah. Like he must go, Jordanordan you need a certain amount of sleep in order for these exercise that we do to have an effect so the muscles can recover i think he in his mind i need those those outlets to be great and i i can believe that i just at that point i don't want to hear you saying or like having pieces put in a documentary it's like oh he was just so physically tired the toll of of being the greatest, I believe that.

I also believe, and maybe you needed to smoke and drink and party to cope. That's also why you're physically tired. And you can at least give me a well-rounded, like I'm physically tired. Yeah, I did all this stuff, but I also did it to cope. But like that, all of it just took a toll. Right.

I look at him like godlike and whenever he needs to turn up that gear he could turn it up regardless if he has sleep or not so it's like of course yes he's still human at the end of the day but i think that without the drive without the drive pushing him to win is why he's physically beat up and tired yeah i guess i just saw that as like he lost that drive at the third i just saw that particular moment leapt out of me i was like oh that's one of those moments where it's jordan like kind of spinning everything to where it's not a big deal that he walked i mean i get listen he was the greatest ever probably the first time he walked away so i can i can understand him saying

there's no challenges anymore there's nothing for me to get up for i can understand all that just when they were like he was so physically beat up by the second olympia by the second championship blah blah i was like you're physically beat up also that one line i just took issue with that one line like you're also physically beat up because you don't recover ever right and you don't probably need sleep like the normal person i think about him and dennis rodman and i was wondering like is that a common ingredient for greatness is just i have energy all the time yeah but i just thought that one line of i'm so tired is like you're tired for more than just basketball right just let's be honest about this sure sure that's all yeah um yeah i mean you've been having problems sleeping haven't you i always

have problems sleeping yeah but i don't i don't drink i don't smoke i don't go out and gamble so it's like i'm not blaming another shit yeah but that's what you really resented him for what he had sleep it's like yeah it's like you're like you could have slept bitch that's what you want where you really can't it's out of your control i think that you're projecting a little bit i think that you have sleep issues and you're like this guy could have easily slept but he's out drinking and doing debaucherous activities where you're laying down on that pillow at 11 p.m. and you can't knock out. I just think don't use it as an excuse. Yeah.

That's all. Yeah. That's all. Yeah. You're stupid. How's your shower situation, Andrew? What did he say? How's your shower situation, Andrew? What is that? How's your shower situation?

Oh, my shower's great. Anyway, so look, there's the question that I had during this is like, can you get greatness out of people without having that attitude? Can you, is the Jordan way the way to get the most out of the people that you are working with? It's going to take somebody being better than Jordan for us to say, yeah, well, you know, you don't need to do it like that. Because right now, the guy that we all think is the greatest ever did it like that. So how can you argue with that? Yeah.

Yeah, I feel like if you need to get the most that is the way to do it and some people can't handle it and some people will be broken by it but that is how you get the most undeniably so like if steve kerr didn't get the most out of his team right i mean his team lost games that team should never lose a game the team lost a 3-1 lead yeah 73 and 9 yeah regular season team ever yeah have to come back from 3-1 down yeah playoffs and then lose a 3-1 lead yeah in the play i love how jordan made sure that in the documentary they showed that the actual best record ever including playoffs which is what counts are the bulls and then they made it i think it was an extra shot to put second was the Warriors.

Oh, 100%. That's pointed. This guy's a fucking sociopath. Yeah, 100%. But do you think he lost both of those games against Seattle so that he could come back and win at home for Father's Day? On Father's Day? Yeah.

That's a widely thought about thing. Yeah. And yeah, I could kind of do that. 100%, right? And that's why he fucking laughs hysterically at Gary Payton. Yeah, he's like, I was okay. What did he say? I mean, the glove. I didn't okay what did he say I mean the glove

I didn't have I had no problems with the glove son that laugh was a belly laugh yeah it was a belly laugh that was so disrespectful it was super disrespectful

Gary Payne looking all bloated and shit Gary Payne looks horrible he makes that face of shock and then I think he laughed extra hard just because you out of your fucking mind yeah how dare you didn't know you out of your mind yeah how dare you

um i'm watching this thing i feel like these these two episodes really honed in more than any other episodes on the fuel for michael jordan's uh machine right oh yeah and he feeds on grudges yes that is his fuel that he is a vampire for grudges those are that's the blood that he sucks on and he creates these grudges yeah right and one i guess my first question is what does the grudge do? It gives him an extra edge. And I think he always needs the edge. It's fuck you. Everybody plays a little bit.

It's the same reason NFL teams probably. Let me clarify the question. A grudge doesn't make you shoot better. A grudge doesn't make you jump higher. A grudge doesn't make you run faster. It makes you focus more. Okay. Now,

so that's what I'm trying to say. What is the grudge enabling him to do there is a competitive there's a weird competitive thing every sports team what do they say nobody believed in us you hey you're giving them bulletin board material when you guarantee a win against the other team every competitors always need that thing to make them lock in which is oh you don't think i'm the oh you think i can't do this right fuck you jordan is oh you think you could just fucking you were gonna play the finals and you're gonna walk by me even though we went to the same college and you're not gonna acknowledge i exist fuck you right oh you're gonna put your arm around me and tell me nice game after you have 36 fuck you it just helps you lock in and elevate your focus and intensity and everything and then the

game does you do perform better usually right like that yeah i think a grudge is like a lion trying to eat you like a grudge is like a rock that falls on you out in the woods like you like if you're getting chased by a lion you'll tap into a speed that you didn't know you had like you'll push your bones and like your ligaments to like tearing to get away right you've seen the stories where like the car is on the kid and the mom's able to lift the car up. Yeah.

And in the process, she like tears all the muscles in her body. Yeah. Like it taps into a part of your brain where you're like, I just have to do this at all costs and nothing else matters, even if it means sacrificing my body. Like you can only cognitively put your brain into output at like 80%. Right. And then it's only when you're faced with like no other option and no escape that you're going to tap into the 95, 96 percentile, I think.

Right. So the interesting question is, is like, why does that allow him to tap into it? Like, I understand if a lion's chasing me, how much more focused I'll be. I'll understand if like a rock falls me in the forest, how much more focused I'll be. I don't understand how a coach just walking out at a dinner elicits the same physical reaction or mental reaction something about disrespect that for him is big like if he feels disrespected yeah that's he's he's ready yeah just make me feel disrespected and i'll lock in i think that like you have a i think that the intensity thing for jordan right is his competitive advantage

obviously is he's the best to ever play i think this shows it that he's the best to ever play right and not only see the best to ever play he has something that can get him to that level at his disposal lebron doesn't lebron does not have the ability to go he calls it zero dark 30 or whatever the fuck he does he doesn't have it he can output as much as he is he wants you know or like as he tries to but he can't lock into the tenacity that jordan has yeah and jordan i think his competitive advantage outside have outside being the most physically gifted player that we've ever seen he had the ability to tap into his top potential at any given night with the smallest of stimulus yeah literally somebody not shaking his hand was enough for him to go to a hundred percent bro he invented stuff yeah he made a story against the bulls player just to

create a thing yeah like i almost feel like it's a foreign like ocd where like you create this enemy or like this fear that you have yeah and where like you create this enemy or like this fear that you have yeah and then like you start doing these behaviors to fix the thing that you created in the first place yeah yeah it's pretty amazing i think he has that top dog um situation where it's like everybody needs to kiss the ring yeah so you know when he first came on the bulls he's like oh who's the best player i'm going after him now i'm top dog so everybody needs to kiss my ring yeah so he'll create these enemies and it has like oh wait you're not kissing the ring He's like, oh, who's the best player? I'm going after him. Now I'm top dog. So everybody needs to kiss my ring. And so he'll create these enemies and his head's like, oh, wait, you're not kissing the ring?

Yeah. But like. I'm going to make you now. It is interesting. So it's like he created it. It is interesting to see. And maybe this is all narrative and maybe they're just cooking this into the documentary. But like nobody has ever been afraid of pissing off LeBron. Oh, you want to piss all LeBron?

Be careful tomorrow. Nobody's ever been afraid of pissing off LeBron. Oh, you're going to piss off LeBron? Be careful tomorrow. Nobody's ever been afraid of pissing off Kobe. You know Kobe is going to give you everything he has every single night. Jordan. I don't know about that with Kobe. I think. Again, I haven't watched enough Lakers games to say, but I think every time we saw Kobe, he tried his hardest.

I think what he's saying is kobe's mentality was rip your heart out but i don't need to hate you to rip your heart out yeah i just want to rip your heart out but when he had like that player that um oh people were saying like oh he's the kobe stopper or some shit like that like you'll see him turn up in patterson yeah like you'll you'll see him like oh i'm i'm i have a grudge against this player so now i'm gonna turn up and score fucking 61 tonight sure just to shut yeah yeah he definitely has it for sure he's super competitive that's probably every competitor at that level has has it to a level 100 but jordan's was like different okay uh and i forgot what i was saying the uh needing the grudge needing disrespect you

said kobe lebron nobody's afraid of pissing okay, nobody's afraid of pissing off LeBron. Okay, so nobody's afraid of pissing off LeBron. I don't think it really mattered with Kobe in the same way. I don't think so. I think he was just going to give it no matter what. And maybe if the news media was saying something, maybe if it was like a public thing, maybe it inspired him a little bit more. But if he had to score 60 to win, he'd score 60 to win. If not, I think he was just like,

I want to get the championships. I think Kobe was just chasing Mike mike people were afraid of him yeah the way you you hear these these players talk about mike they're like oh my god why'd you say that yeah why'd you say it's in the same way um when uh there's like a movie or some bad guy if why'd you do that why'd you have to think about that remembering ghostb? Why'd you have to think about that? Remember in Ghostbusters, why'd you have to think about the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know what I'm saying? Like, why'd you have to unlock the, what is a movie or like a bad guy or like a- I think his gang's in New York. Bill the Butcher is like cutting up meat. He's like this big knife. He's intimidating whoever the other guy is. That's Jordan after BJ Armstrong hits that game winner and starts talking shit. Jordan the next day in the locker room, he's like this big knife he's intimidating whoever the other guy is that's jordan after bj armstrong

hits that game winner and starts talking shit during the next day in the locker room he's just swinging a baseball bat with one hand a cigar in his mouth and he's just talking that shit it's like a super villain stroking his fucking cat or whatever and just talking about how he's gonna ruin you x-men what is the the bitch that's phoenix or something like that she's like a phoenix jean gray or something like that you know like if she loses it she loses it tasmanian devil if they lose it they lose there's examples of super villains right you know it doesn't even exist in like regular humanity it doesn't even exist as like humans and movies but there are people that if they go crazy or these super villains if they go crazy they're kind of unstoppable don't piss hey don't piss thanos off

why'd you have to do that blah blah blah it's like an abusive dad you're like don't piss hey don't piss thanos off why'd you have to do that blah blah it's like an abusive dad you're like don't say the thing to make dad mad yeah and then it goes crazy right so it's like have you ever let me just get so it's like so these that's what jordan was and that's how they saw him right like i've never seen this before the trick with jordan was just to kind of be nice to him and then hopefully he wouldn't tap into his peak potential but even then like you're on eggshells with him

yeah that's like every girlfriend though yeah like you tell a girl like but there's nothing productive that comes out of them

no but I mean I'm talking about the Tasmanian devil part I understand I'm saying by pissing them off nothing good happens they can't do anything with it like Jordan would win with it they just spin around and yell yeah yeah they just waste your

fucking time i did the something just so it's like he just tapped it yeah there's like it's just an interesting thing it's like most people when they get angry they actually get worse right most people when they get upset they throw the game away they can't function they do what's called hero ball have you guys heard of this term hero ball i'm gonna try to do it myself you know brett farve oh you saying that he he's lost it he's lost a step okay now he's just throwing interceptions in the fucking playoffs right and with jordan the opposite thing happened usually when people tap into that aggression and that anger bad things happen because jordan was the hero i think i think not only was he the hero i think that he was so good

that's what i mean we've never seen somebody on this level of greatness i think he was so far superior i would say a minimum 20 better than anybody else. It's quite possible. At any given time. Who's even close at the time? I don't know. I don't know. I mean, you can't even put Reggie Miller in the same ballpark. No. I love Reggie Miller. I want him to win that series.

20, 25%. It's not even close. It's 20, 25%. And you know what it is? This is what it is. When he taps into it, it'sordan playing against his little brother not his actual relationship it's anyone playing against their younger sibling that's what he that's how far above everybody he was in the league when he was able to tap into what he wanted he was playing

against a younger sibling and that's pretty amazing at any point in time going all right i'm gonna drop 60 a night i'm gonna drop 36 and a half because that motherfucker just scored 37 on me in a full game. Doug, the idea that we compare, like, no disrespect to Kobe, but when you think about the stats,

they said Jordan averaged 40 points a game for an entire playoff series seven times. You know how fucking crazy that is? In a league that wasn't that high scoring and didn't,

like, you were allowed to hit everybody on the perimeter like crazy numbers this guy would put up he was he could play hero ball effectively he could play hero ball that's what i'm saying he was the hero everybody wants to play hero ball and then if they die right jordan was an actual hero i could play hero ball and i'm a win and i'll make the pass when i need to but against the suns in game six of the closeout game i'm only there's only gonna be one other guy that scores one time the rest of the quarter is me don't worry about it bro and you know what's interesting rodman could

do it too i think that's why he respected rodman we don't look at the same way because we only really value scoring but when rodman locked in he's like yeah i can get 20 boards tonight it's fucking hard to get 20 rebounds that's a huge number it's a massive number and what it does to change the game if you get nine of those on the offensive board on the offensive side that's twice as many shots yeah you know what i mean it's potentially 18 to 27 points think about that you won't get, but that's the potential. That's what changes the game. Let's say you win by eight.

That game is decided by Robin's offensive rebounds. If you win by eight points, when he gave you the potential for 20, 25 extra points, I mean, look, I guess the point I'm trying to say is I think he had that ability to lock in and give 100% diving into the crowd and doing all these other things at his specific thing i think jordan recognized it i think he was like oh shit he might not need the grudge he might not need it like i need it but when he taps in

he is 25 better than everybody else on the floor at his specific thing. And I am that way with defense and offense. And I can pretty much do everything because I'm Jordan. I'm the greatest. But I recognize what he's able to do. And he's also great at the things that I can't do it. I can't elevate rebounding. I can't elevate interior post defense. He's got that.

So now we're a team. We're good. Dude, now it makes so much sense. It makes so much sense. I think that you were saying this earlier about like what was it you saying like he he didn't understand how other people couldn't tap in now it makes so much sense why that rumor about him saying horace grant couldn't eat yeah i think he's looking at horace grant he's like you have all the physical gifts of someone

who should be able to dominate this game you're agile you're um i mean you're incredibly like muscular and uh your jumping ability is insane your height is insane you have everything that you need to be good at this you just don't empty the tank how can i respect you yeah you don't deserve food yeah like you don't deserve fuel if you can't empty the tank if you boom you oh no you got enough fuel left yeah we saw today yeah man that's also insane if i'm a grown-ass man and you tell me i can't eat yeah like that's crazy i had a bad game so i can't eat are you fucking serious right now yeah i wonder if i wonder if a bad game was just lack of effort. Not poor shooting, just lack of effort.

I bet if he scored two points but had like 14 boards, he wouldn't give a fuck. Oh, yeah. Right? But if you miss shots, it's still like, I don't know. Jordan was like, don't give the ball to Bill Cartwright at the end of the game. And Bill Cartwright, when you watch him, you're like.

Yeah, I get it. Yeah, I get it, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I forgot I was gonna say oh yeah this there's an interesting thing Tim Grover says which is like he doesn't believe so he has these he calls people like Jordan closers Jordan Kobe these absolute killers do whatever it takes at all costs it doesn't matter yeah he said I don't believe anybody above 6'10 can be that and I wonder if he thinks that because it's like if you're 6'10 and Jordan is talking to you like this, don't you just beat him up?

Yeah. You're a horse grand. At some point, aren't you just like, yo, I can beat the shit out of you. Yeah. I think what happens at like, what you said, 6'10 or 6'8? He said 6'10. I think what happens at that height is you don't find the game. The game finds you.

Yeah, maybe. And when the game finds you, in in other words when like a coach from your elementary or like junior high school team comes to you and goes oh my god you're so tall you got to play for us it life comes at you too easy yeah when you're six six it comes pretty easy until you get into like elite high school ball or college ball then shit gets to be normalized right but it's pretty easy but i think the big guys they don't ever experience it and then when they do experience it they're already in the league and how they view the game has been formed yeah right like you're 22 years old you're not gonna start you know looking at the game in a different way like joelle and b perfect example he cannot lock in the way jordan could lock in

or the way a robin can lock in yeah right you see it he's like he'll score and then the next possession he just won't play d he'll he'll get in a little fit about something he just can't focus for the extended period of time he just doesn't have it are we gonna see the jordan kobe read anymore who nobody in the league right now lebron is the best player in the league one of the best players ever he's not that mentality are we gonna going to see that again? And is that necessarily a bad thing? So a question I have about that is, is what is Kawhi? Like, what is his leadership strategy?

Like, how does he win? He doesn't seem vocal. He doesn't seem to come down on his teammates. Yeah. Right? Like, how is he getting maximum output from the people around him? That's a good question. Because I gave it all up to the Spurs organization when he was there.

But then he comes to Toronto and replicates it. And his team plays well. Fred Van Fleet played out of his fucking mind. Kyle Lowry had a good series. Great series. So it's like, who do we give credit to? How is he leading? When you you look at him you don't feel like he's a leader at all he's a hired gun he's an assassin but he must have some ability to lead

and maybe it's just by example maybe i mean i'm not apparently kawaii is different than we all know him and he's more talkative and all that yeah maybe it's just i'm going to give maximum effort and then you just you're gonna follow like i'm going to give maximum effort and then you just, you're going to follow. Like, I'm not going to sit here and yell at you. I'm also not going to sit here and baby you. I'm just going to do what I'm going to do

and then when you see me, you're going to follow. Yeah. Or maybe he just makes you want some affection from him so badly. You're like, maybe if I work harder.

Interesting. Maybe he'll show some emotion if I work harder. Interesting. Yeah, man. Jordan is the abusive parent. Kawhi maybe is the emotionally unavailable parent. Yeah. Dad, did you like that? I'm here, yeah. Jordan is the abusive parent. Kawhi maybe is the emotionally unavailable parent.

Yeah. Dad, did you like that, Dad? I'm here, yeah. Is my painting cool? Yo, I wonder what Jordan, like he was so maniacal and so like locked in and like rude to his teammates in order to get the best out of him. Why was that not parented out of him? His parents seem really sweet.

Like if they saw him doing that in high school and college, why weren't like hey mike like be friendly like don't how many kids how many brothers and sisters did he have how big was his family but did one brother one or two no i think it was like five of them right i don't remember actually i don't know i can look it up yeah let's look games seems to be the only one in the documentary sibling wise his brother I think he's got a sis. How many did he have? Four. He had four siblings, or there were four total? Yeah, four siblings. So five of them total. Yeah.

I think... Two brothers, two sisters. Yeah, he taps into this earlier in the documentary, but I think he's just competing for his dad's affection. And you have five kids, and his pops work in a full-time job there's not a lot of time how can i get attention from dad oh shit he really likes it when i do well in sports yeah and that's my best friend and that's the coolest person in the entire world to me okay i will destroy everybody so i can get a pat on the back of my butt oh you're gonna tell me to

go inside so that you could play with my brother at sports oh no i gotta beat my brother now yeah you know his brother was a grudge for a long part of his life that's the and i think he even touches in on it yeah he's right he was like he's like imagine you could fight the person that you love more than anything in the world like of course yeah like that's the highest and then his dad passes away and he goes all right i don't need any more affection he can like retire i'm done yeah yeah i wonder if that played into it why did he retire i remember as a kid thinking yeah his dad died you don't play anymore yeah yeah let's get into that yeah because so me watching this all the whole gambling rumors and mike having something to do with that i don't believe it anymore you don't believe it anymore. You don't believe what? That he had some type of gambling debt that the mafia went after his debt.

Yeah, it seems weird. It seems completely believable what happened. Yeah. So two kids, essentially, they were like 18 years old, right? Yes. This is what's weird about the story. And I'm not even getting into conspiratorial shit. This is what I always assumed happened. I thought it was two guys trying to get a lick right they saw

jordan's dad they recognized him maybe they've cased out where he lived and they were like all right he's leaving the crib let's follow him see where he goes maybe he'll stop somewhere we go rob him we get five grand maybe he got a nice watch maybe he got some cash say again they stole his car they stole his car made a rap video with the car

wearing Jordan's one of Jordan's championship rings that he gave his dad like these kids there is there is some conspiratorial shit

with the murder but not necessarily linking to gambling see I didn't know that see that's interesting that means you're just too young you gotta listen to the

Tiki Wiki sometimes, guys. You gotta listen to the guys from Good Info out there. So, this is crazy, though, real quick. Two dumb kids. And I was actually gonna see

Giz Gagnon, like, and you will get into it and, like, read about it. I heard all this and I was like, oh, crazy. I should read about it. I know I never will. Yeah.

They said Jordan got shot, Jordan's dad got shot in his car. The kid shot him in the chest and he died in his car or whatever. They found him in a creek later. Okay. There was apparently no blood found in his car the kids shot him in the chest and he died in his car or whatever they found him in a creek later okay there was apparently no blood found in the car so if you got shot in the chest because they said it was internal bleeding there's no way you get shot

in the chest and it's only internal bleeding yeah i don't understand that at all yeah that's possible yeah well it depends on like the caliber of the bullet i guess i don't know go on like if it's not like a hollow head bullet, like if it's just like the regular pointy shit, you can just get lodged in your body. You just get lodged in the body so there's no bullet.

Because that was the thing. They had a few different things and one of them was like, the kids made cell phone calls from Jordan's dad's phone and one of the calls was to somebody who was like

the son of the deputy of the police department or whatever like that. So maybe there was some cover up there. That's where it might be conspiratorial. But yeah, there's like some weird shit with the the case apparently i

didn't know it was that possible in my mind i'm like you get shot in the chest you're gonna bleed but there's some weird shit with that case apparently that doesn't necessarily link it to gambling but there's some like just funny shit around apparently they didn't report him missing for 30 days i don't know if that's true or not 30 i don't know if that's true because in the documentary they said jordan's dad has been missing for three weeks so that's 21 days automatically they couldn't have been 30 he died on july 23rd and his body was found august 3rd where when was the car found uh the car was found immediately pretty much it was like pretty close then i can't find the exact date.

Yeah. They said in the doc they found a body in the creek. Right. I remember that. But they find a body in the creek a month later or three weeks later. So something happens. Yeah. I mean, now to me it's sounding like, all right, these two kids. And they said he was sleeping in the car.

I don't know if that's true. But whatever. These two kids, they probably. Followed him. It's like, hey, nice car in some area that we probably don't really see nice cars or whatever unc 23 on the plate so it's like hey let's they might not even know it was his dad they just probably saw the car it's like yo let's rob this person maybe his dad could have put up tried to defend himself bank shoot him and now it's like yo let's get away with this crime so

let's throw his body in the creek. And then film a rap video. Yeah. They said in the testimony they didn't mean to kill him. Like they were trying to tie him up. And then one of the guys, according to Wikipedia, pulled the trigger for no reason. For no reason.

And that they just killed him on accident, I guess. Huh. Yeah, I don't buy the gambling thing. I think that they were casing him out. Yeah, I were casing them out yeah i think it's premeditated and i think that they were like we can come up on some money we can get a ring we can get all this other shit yeah that's what i assume it is it's too random that you just also happen to be at a truck stop and you also want to rob somebody where you're hanging out with your friend like nobody robs truckers yeah who's gonna rob a trucker you know a truck stop and you also want to rob someone where you're hanging out with your friend, like nobody robs truckers. Yeah. Who's going to rob a trucker?

You know a trucker's packing something. One. Two, they're not going to have any money. If you're at a truck stop, you're at the truck stop because you followed

that motherfucker. And it could be as simple as you and your boy were just driving and then you saw UNC-23 and you're like, wait, what the fuck? That's a nice car.

Holy shit, is that Jordan's dad? It's not like people didn't know what his dad looked like. Jordan. Shit, you might have thought it was Jordan. Yo, I don't want to kill jordan but if i could tell people i robbed jordan that's a fucking that's come up i think that's what it is they the car is found i don't know why they bashed up the car that makes no sense to me why is that

maybe to intimidate him get him out of the car so they start bashing up the car first so yeah that i don't know it's weird that's the weird shit burn the car i get that but bashing just break the windows or they're trying to make it look like it was a robbery like were they trying to or just dumb kids were just like yo let's just fucking bash the car that's possible like think about it you just broke windows and shit like that when you're a kid like well maybe you guys didn't but yeah you're going around the hood just throwing rocks and yeah at 18 i mean kids are dumb yeah it's not internet age so we didn't we weren't growing up as fast then yeah like kids at 18 i don't think it was gambling per se i i just doesn't make sense to

me yeah also the idea that michael jordan can't cover his debt is like crazy i'm not gonna lie breaking the car seems like gambling that's what i would do if someone owed me money no i would take the car and sell it nah you want a message sent and you also might be owed more money than the cars worth yeah so it's like and also if you owe me money, I'm not going to do work. You owe me money. It's not up to me to go sell a car. Oh, yeah. You know what I'm saying?

You owe me money. Pay me my money. I mean, this could be the possibility. Let's say, hypothetically speaking, they follow him. They were told, yo, go bust up the car and send a message. And then Mike's dad is going to go tell Mike. They go to bust up the car and send a message and then mike's dad is gonna go tell mike they go to bust up the car maybe jordan's dad reaches for the glove compartment they're like oh shit he got a gun or maybe he reaches down for something oh shit he got a gun yeah they shoot because they don't

want to die now all of a sudden they got a body on them they make the phone call or they don't even know what the fuck to do like yo we yo, we got to hide this body somewhere. Let's bash up the car. So it looks like he was just broken into when in reality, the whole thing was premeditated. And you know what? Maybe Jordan never finds out. Maybe Jordan never knows that it had to do something with gambling. Maybe deep down he knows, but it's never confirmed.

Then why'd they steal it and do the music video? I don't know that part to be true. That music video shit sounds weird. I don't know that part to be true. That music video shit sounds weird. I don't know that part to be true, but like... But that's what... That's the evidence that just makes me feel like, oh, these are just two dumb young kids. Like, that's convinced me right there. Yeah.

It's like, you're going to make a music video with the car you just stole. Yeah. But another thing that was... That now I don't believe this this story is true is um it doesn't benefit anybody to kick jordan out of the league yeah that was like no one jordan made everybody money like how do you put you're not punishing jordan he's gonna make money outside of the league also very random league you're hurting the very random length of suspension a year and three quarters yeah it's just odd you can come back in March of your second year.

Yeah, it's just odd. I thought it was dope that Jerry Reinsdorf paid him, though. Yeah. Continue paying him. Like, obviously, he deserves it, but it was... A lot of people don't often do the right thing. Yeah. Especially billionaires.

Like, rich people often don't do the right thing. Yeah. And that's why they get to be billionaires. Yeah. But he paid him because like, Ooh, if I stay on his good side, maybe he'll come back.

I think, I think, I think that's part of it. But I also think it, I also think there was like, he's like, he's made me tens of millions of dollars, maybe hundreds of millions of dollars.

The least I could do is pay the most underpaid motherfucker in history, three mil a year which is nothing and that lets you know how exceptional Jordan was because he didn't do that shit for Pippen oh yeah Pippen made him a lot of money too

but he didn't make me Jordan money so if you're in a shitty deal you in a shitty deal I told you not to take it you took it I don't got to do the right thing by you Jordan

he's like I mean it's Jordan might as well yeah but I got to play Jordan what are you talking about? All right, we're going to take a break for a second and give a shout out to one of the greatest companies in all of the quarantine, to be honest, man.

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Use the promo code Andrew Peace These episodes I I think, expose something about Phil Jackson. A chink in his armor, if you will. Okay. I think Phil needs a bad cop. An alpha male bad cop.

I don't think Phil's hippie, peace, love, here's some Native American spirits, let's all do some yoga. I don't think that works unless you have a supreme alpha male that's willing to chew out every single person on that team to get the most out of them. I think so. He had Jordan and he had Kobe and those things function beautifully. and the second he got Carmelo Anthony,

who is not a alpha male who's willing to chew out his teammates, who's just a guy who's there for himself, and he tried to trade him. He's like, I don't want, it's me, I don't care about this guy. He's not what we need to win. And he just wasn't able to function. He just wasn't able to, granted he wasn't coaching, but still he wasn't able to create the culture that was needed,

and he didn't get people to buy into him and i think the only way people buy into phil is if phil can get in the head of the alpha male and the alpha agrees to be coached by phil and then the alpha does all the dirty work for phil i don't think phil can be the lead dog i think he needs a dog to do all the biting. That's interesting because I wrote a note in my phone as I was watching this. It said MJ needed Phil more than he needed anybody on that team. Because Phil was the guy that would tell him he was taking it too far. And he would eventually listen. And nobody else is going to tell Mike you're taking it too far.

And Mike is going to be like, yeah, you're probably right. I get what you're saying. Okay. Like when he was going too hard. When Michael's being too much of an asshole Phil was the only one that could say yo tone it down. Yeah. I'll send you home from practice. Whatever. Nobody

else is Mike respecting that from. And you see Mike's respect level towards Phil. Yeah. Because he's like the moment I saw Phil I was like yeah I'm sorry. Yeah. He respects Phil. Mike had a lot of respect for his coaches in general. Like, he seemed to kind of just do what they said, which was really interesting.

The way I think of players nowadays, you could tell your coach to go fuck themselves. But you've seen Mike in the documentary, not just with Phil, with other coaches, be like, all right, I got kicked out of practice, but everything's good. Or, yeah, the coach told me he won't take the ball to my hand, so we got to do it.

Doug Collins, at least, also knew how to play game. to play work with him yeah we'll make the offense around you and then if i kick you out what are you gonna do i'd already do everything for you how mad can you be i kicked you out for a reason but phil knew how to win and get mike to listen and i also thought that play where pippen sat out which we can talk about too because i know you brought it up uh notes that to me proved, that proved wrong the one thing everybody says about Phil.

He can't win without stars. So Mike is gone that year. They go to the conference semifinals, take the Knicks to seven. Yeah. And in that play, your second star, who's not Jordan at all,

was like, I'm not going to go into the game. And Phil was like, fuck you then. We're going to win without you. And then they go win without him. Yeah. That to me was like a testament then. We're going to win without you. And then they go win without him. Yeah.

That to me was like a testament to Phil doesn't have to have a star. Phil can coach up a team. Now, he's the best at taking stars and winning with them. And maybe he can't win a championship without a star. But he can win at a high level without a great player. I don't think so. You disagree? Yeah, because the next year it fell apart.

The next year they were still a playoff team. Barely. Yeah, but that's like they lost two major weapons. Oh, they lost Horace Grant that year. You don't have Grant. You don't have Jordan. You don't have Rodman. Well, you didn't have Jordan the year before, right? And they lost Horace Grant. That's who they lost. They didn't have Rodman yet.

Who was the second best player on that team? Who? Horace was? It's Pippen, and then I guess it's Kukoc. Pippen, Kukoc. And then Grant. And then I guess Horace Grant. And then Grant. What is he giving you, 10 and 10? I think Grant was probably second best.

Yeah, but he's like their- The first year. He's their size. Yeah. And in the 90s, interior, the game is won from the inside out. And Kukoc isn't going to play someday. I hear you. I hear you.

I just feel like Phil needs an enforcer. And Phil is like Professor X in X-Men. You know who Professor X needs? Wolverine to slap the shit out of motherfuckers who are getting out of line, yo. You need a badass motherfucker that's willing to go up to someone and choke the shit out of them.

And Phil can't do that. Phil can motivate you from your soul, right? He can get in there and he can like, he can get you to love him and he can relate to you in ways that no other coach will ever relate. And he can really make a team bond. I think he can get guys to come together and sacrifice for a greater good. I truly believe that he's good at that.

But sometimes you need that whip cracked and Phil can't crack a whip. Like, have you ever seen those like images on the sideline where he's good at that but sometimes you need that whip cracked and phil can't crack a whip like have you ever seen those like uh images on the sideline where he's yelling at players and just look like his breath stinks you know what i mean he's just like it doesn't look like it's effective like remember he yelled at pauga soul yeah remember that chest and it's like what are you doing phil that's not you yeah give him some stones or something like that like tell him to smell some incense that's not how you coach you get kobe to yell at that motherfucker you get jordan to yell at that motherfucker where like a popovich popovich can do the yelling yeah popovich can do both he doesn't need the super alpha male he can do it tim duncan is not the super alpha male tim duncan is the best

player on your team no doubt but he's not going to do to you what Jordan does to his teammates. Yeah. I also am thinking though, like if you take the stars away from any coach, it's hard to win. Like Popovich hasn't won a championship since Duncan Kawhi, Ginobili, and Tony Parker were all on the squad. Yeah. So there's an element of that. Well, there's coaching stars and then coaching regulars. And I think like a Larry Brown is great at coaching regulars, but can't coach stars. And that's why he won't win the championship. Well, he did. That's why he only got the one.

Yeah, I think they got two, right? No, he got the one ringless, or the one starless championship, and then they didn't win. I thought they won two. No, they only won one. They made it back, and I think the Spurs beat them, actually, ironically. But yeah, so it's like there's different types of coaching. And Phil is great for a star, but he needs someone with bite. And maybe he knows what optimizes.

Like, this is the best way. This is the best cast for me. I need that guy to be the best version. That's how I win-win. Yeah. That's when we're really great. And he's self-aware enough to know that. Yeah.

He's a guy that's going to be hyper-aware of everything. Yeah. And so he's like, yeah, I don't want to coach LeBron. LeBron doesn't have that thing. Yeah. I mean, players need other tools's going to be hyper aware of everything. Yeah. And so he's like, yeah, I don't want to coach LeBron. LeBron doesn't have that thing. Yeah. I mean, players need other tools in order to be effective. Yeah. Right?

Like Jordan needs a tall wing guy that can pass. He needs a pippen-like player. LeBron wants his power forward behind the three-point line. Boom. Exactly. Phil, I want my enforcer to be my best player. I don't think Phil can coach LeBron. He said early on, he was like, I don't have interest in coaching my best player. I don't think Phil can coach LeBron. He said early on, he was like,

I don't have interest in coaching the Cavs. I remember that. I think he recognized it early. He's like, I can't do anything with them. I can't do anything with them. I wonder somebody who's in the league now that Phil could coach. That's what I'm saying.

I don't know who's the, maybe Kawhi, but even then, Kawhi doesn't seem like if that's what he needs, the enforcer killer the fucking at all costs whatever westbrook it's interesting westbrook would be interesting westbrook probably just isn't good enough but that is the mentality yeah he's just not go out there and give put it all on the line. Dude, if Westbrook existed in Jordan's NBA where a mid-range game was valued and a mid-range game could work. That would have been fun.

Imagine Jordan and Westbrook going at it. That would have been so fun, yeah. Oh, man, that would have been fun. He is kind of a throwback player. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Mentally strong. Yeah, he'll put up bad shots. But a lot of his bad shots now

is because he's chucking up these threes that are just out of his range. If he stayed in his range, which was the old NBA. Yeah, in the 90s, they didn't shoot threes like that. Yeah.

That's why Jordan wasn't a good three-point shooter. Yeah, somebody made this point that Glenn Rice was a knockdown three-point shooter. He hit like three a game. Yeah. And he was like,

lights out. you've never seen anything like this yeah larry bird barely shot threes and we thought of him as a fucking oh this guy's a three-point shooter specialist that's his specialty yeah he's out there yeah yeah well you would just brought up something with uh pippin right and uh do you think this documentary has been unfair to pippin do you think it's making him the fall guy? So originally when you said that, I thought no. Okay. You know what's interesting?

I still think no. Two things. One, somebody on Twitter, I should find the name, but he said, when Pippin had the migraine series against the Pistons and he lost, his dad died around that same time, like May 2nd, 1990 or something. Oh, see, I didn't know that. The documentary didn't really bring up, oh, Pippin's dealing with the death of his father. It's migraines and it's Jordan being like, I mean, he says. The documentary didn't really bring up, oh, Pippen's dealing with the death of his father. It's migraines, and it's Jordan being like,

I mean, he says he has migraines, whatever. But Jordan's dad died, and it's like, yeah, I lost those two finals games because I had a lot. My dad died three years ago. Pippen's dad died three weeks ago, max. Maybe during the series, and you're just like, yeah, I don't know, migraines, bro, grow up. Like, what the fuck are you talking about?

Wow. That was interesting. Yeah, I didn't know migraines bro grow up like what the fuck you talking about that was interesting so maybe and mike wilbon brought this up after sports center if phil dared draw up a final play that went to pippen do you think mj would have handled it well back when mj was playing no but he did he's he had that play he's like yo if what's his face is open give it to him if he open, the ball goes to you. And then you make the final decision. And you make the final decision. If he's open, kick it out. I will say this.

Just to go back to it being unfair to Pippen, I think it is unfair to Pippen because these things that have happened throughout history that they're touching on with Pippen, like the 1.8 seconds left, et cetera, don't really play a larger role, right? Yeah, they hit that shot, but then they ended up losing. So it seems like, I understand if you hit that shot, then you go to the finals and you win the finals. Yeah, you must include that in the legacy.

That's very important. But hand-selecting random games where, yeah, Pippen did something and then they either won or they lost, but it really didn't affect the legacy of the Bulls as we know it. It actually plays no part whatsoever in the story besides just showing that Scottie Pippen was kind of selfish, like the contract nonsense. But I think that's important to show because it shows his mentality as a person and that carries on to the court. That's a bit weak, my opinion yes like when you let your emotions get the best of you that much it was we agree i think he also i think that i'll say this i think that they do it to position jordan as the alpha and i think what i think the lesson for pippen was I'm not insecure about being second fiddle

to Jordan because I know he's better than me yeah I'll wear his sneakers and ask for him to come back I don't think Kukoc is better than me but my greatest insecurity right now is that the organization does that the players around me do, and that maybe the fans do. So when everybody sees he gets to take the last second shot instead of me, it confirms my greatest insecurity, which is this other guy's better than me. When they choose Jordan to take a last shot or choose Jordan to do some commercial for the Bulls or choose Jordan to do anything, it's like, you know what?

They should because he's actually that much better than me. I can live with that. I just think if you don't have those moments to be filmed and to come up in this documentary, we wouldn't see any of that. So that's interesting.

The fact that he has so many of those moments, him throwing the chair out of frustration and shit like that. I'm like, there's a moment where Pippen throws the chair.

MJ slaps teammates. Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. They highlight those bad qualities of Jordan too. So you're saying it is unfair to him? No, I'm saying it just paints the full picture. Yeah, it paints the full picture. It's just odd though. Don't you think it's weird? I don't know if it's that deep with positioning

Jordan as the alpha. I think a lot of this is just Jordan wanting to explain things away. Yeah, the gambling, I gamble, but I didn't have a problem. They talk about all his problems and then he gets to address them this isn't pippen's documentary so they actually kind of i think jordan kind of threw him a bone with listen let's explain that everybody on the team forgave you after you didn't go into that play so they get full context that you owned it right away you apologized to the team you got emotional let's explain all that but that's pretty much after that we don't really need to worry about you yeah the migraines i thought that was bullshit yeah i mean if jordan had migraines

during a game seven you don't think that would be a full fucking episode yeah but they big them up they big up pipping throughout this whole shit also um my best player oh he's a the greatest player i don't know it's fair i don't think the purpose yeah but this it's the purpose of this documentary i think is a lot of jordan being like let me explain myself it's a sneaker commercial and it's i'm gonna explain myself for the last time in history because i don't know how much longer i'm gonna be here and i want to make sure that i decide what history is going to look like from now moving on so i think they just don't have that kind of time to i can't explain away you you decide what history is like we are going to decide how we are remembered and the only way you decide that is you put it down on paper first and now there's no more paper

right now there's video right so it's like jordan is going to go this is what happened with the bulls even if it isn't if you want to look into the bulls 30 years from now you're going to watch this documentary yeah and this is history now and that's why isaiah thomas so fucking pissed because i bet on some level he knows oh shit i'm a dick throughout history oh shit so he's trying to rectify that situation i mean we go through this you know with our stuff it's like you know if we see we see history being shifted a little bit in a way that we don't think is fair to us then we need to correct it yeah you know i see i saw it happen with my parents business my parents are completely written out of like the

dance business in the way that and dance in general and now they like uh you know support it it happens you got to fight for your place and i think jordan recognized that and he's just like i don't i don't have i don't care about scotty's version i don't think he cares he's just like, I don't care about Scotty's version of everything. I don't think he cares. I agree with you. I don't think he's trying to make him look bad, but I don't care to explain your shit. This is about explaining why I'm the greatest. How I'm the greatest.

I just think if Scotty didn't give him that much material to show, we wouldn't see it. Bro, you know how much drama there is on a fucking team at all times? Especially a dynasty. But it's like, you don't see anything from kerr because we see we see rodman and all this craziness going to the only reason we're talking about kerr is because he has had a successful coaching career yeah if kerr wasn't the coach of the gold state warriors he wouldn't be in this documentary except for when jordan punched him in the face. Yeah, it'd be very small, his role. But he's had this resurgence as a broadcaster and as a coach.

And so now since he's like a person of fame, we care about him. Like Clyde Drexler was probably as popular a player maybe as Charles Barkley. No? No, I don't think so. Charles just had the personality there. Charles had personality,

but like in terms of like he was really good and he was a sensational dunker and he was like he was like the glide i mean he was just it was an amazing guy he was amazing player and they were successful right like um but we don't remember clyde at all yeah because he didn't have this second career as a sports commentator which charles had and he's so fucking entertaining i mean kenny smith kenny smith will be remembered as a much betterator, which Charles had, and he's so fucking entertaining. I mean, Kenny Smith. Kenny Smith will be remembered as a much better basketball player than he was because of his... Kenny Smith is perfect.

Charles, even when he played, had that personality, like when the Suns-Bulls series, when they were up 3-1, the Bulls, and they were like boarding up the windows. Oh, yeah, take that shit down. Yeah, he said, anything you'd like to say to the people of Chicago,

take that shit off the windows. Like, that's just a funny thing to say as you're playing. So I think he got elevated while he was playing. But to your point, Kenny the Jet Smith is irrelevant

because he had a post-playing career. Steve Kerr's in this documentary a lot more because he had that. Now that incident with Jordan punching him, I remember Jordan

talking about that in one of the old shits from the early 2000s or whatever. But he punched him in the chest? He said he punched him. Kerr punched him in the chest? He said he punched, Kurt punched him in the chest,

Jordan punched him in the face. What a weird way or place to punch someone. Low skin. It is kind of pussy, right? I stood up to him. Did you? You give him a fucking purple knuckle?

I was probably a half a foot taller than him. Oh yeah, true. Punch straight. Swing, bro. Let's go. If you gonna dance, dance. If you gonna take a shot,

I respect, think I respect most about T.I. more than any rap song he's ever done or activism or any of that shit. I truly respect the T.I. swung at Floyd, right? Because you got one shot. You're going to get close enough to swing at Floyd, and if you drop him, you get to do the thing that no other boxer has ever done. Yeah.

And he went for it, and he knew that the security was going to separate him. But you could have knocked out Floyd, bro. 100's a real ass dude yeah steve kerr out here combing jordan's chest hairs and shit fuck out of here with that and then acting like i stood up to him that changed our relationship no it didn't he punched the littlest guy on the court and he felt bad for you i don't think he had this this huge respect for you afterwards i think he felt bad i know i think jordan needs to know you have that in you that's what he was trying to get out of burrell fair enough you got out of curry's like okay i can go to war with this guy i don't think he was like this is a fucking he's a i can't believe he's still i think he's like okay good you got a little something in him yeah you got something in you let's go do you

think he he believes that like uh your asshole gets tight if you don't stand up for yourself i think he does so so in other words like when the going gets tough people who stand up for themselves are willing to take on the challenge yeah they'll go and the people who aren't are going to get nervous and they're going to i think that's his entire mentality he's trying to maybe in his mind it's not i'm not being mean i'm just going to get you to that point where you'll finally fight back. And then, okay, we're good.

Now I'm done. Now I know you got that in you. Now we're good. And I'm going to push until I get there. And maybe Horace never punched him in the face. So he was like, I'm going to keep bullying Horace until he gets there.

Yeah. Scott Burrell, I kept trying to get Scotty to fight me and he wouldn't. Yeah. So I think that was his thing. Once he pushed Kurt at that point, okay, good. He's got that in him.

Let's go. Right. Now I'll pass it to you in the finals. There's a point in the documentary where they talk about his comeback. Do you think Jordan comes back if, go, go, go. If the Bulls win the finals without him. Yes. I think he comes back, and I would love to see that alternate history

because I don't think he goes to the Bulls. Yeah, so the same thing. I want to see. There's an alternate universe. So let's pull back. So let's pull back, right? Yes. Okay.

So Jordan leaves the sport. The next year, they go to the Eastern Conference Finals. Yeah. They are one game away. I think it was the Conference Semifinals, but they went to Game 7. And then the Knicks beat the Pacers in the conference finals. And then went. No, they went to the Eastern Conference Finals.

Can you double check that, Mark? Yeah, they lost in the semis when Jordan came back. But they went to the Eastern Conference Finals when the first year without him. All right. And they lost to the Knicks. I know they lost in seven. I thought I was saying either way. That's the team that made it to the finals. Yeah.

You lost the team that made it to the finals. You lost the team that made it to the finals, right? Yeah. And so they go to the Eastern Conference finals without him. They lose to the Knicks. I don't think Jordan is rooting for that Bulls team. No chance. I was wondering that same thing.

I do not think he's rooting for that. Because if they win without him. They don't need him. Not only do they not need him, it tarnishes everything he's worked for. Oh, yeah. He wants to be in the same league as Magic and Bird. That's what he's been saying since the beginning. Magic and Bird's teams don't just go win without Magic and Bird.

No chance. Not even a fucking chance. No chance. Right? LeBron leaves his team when he was with the. Falls apart. Falls apart. So.

So you think it's like a KD situation. Which is? Like KD got his rings with the Warriors, but we don't give him as much credit because they're not his rings. It would be that. Because they can win without him. It's exactly like that. It would be a chink in the armor.

They'd want to win without you. I'm not impressed. So that first year, they don't win. He's like, whew. The second year that he's not on the team yet, the year he ends up coming back, they struggle. They are, yeah. They're not doing great.

And that's what I think brings him back is he's like, I get to be the Wild West hero. Yeah. I get to save the day. Oh, they're barely making it into the playoffs? Well, I can't play baseball because of this strike shit? Should I come back and save the day? Do-do-do.

Yeah. Do-do-do. I. Do-do-do. I think even a doper question is, does he come back if that strike didn't happen in baseball? Here's what I think could happen. Because he's slowly, they're saying he's getting better

and better and better. Let's get into the baseball thing in a second because I want to talk about, I want to talk about it in a second, but if the Bulls end up winning without him, what do you think happens? I think he goes to another team. And proves. I can beat the Bulls. And he's him, what do you think happens? I think he goes to another team. And proves.

I can beat the Bulls. And he's probably going to go to an Eastern Conference team. Whereas a lot of, like Tom Brady, as much as I think he's a GOAT, he went to the NFC to get away from Bill Belichick. I think Michael would go to the East just to make sure he faces the Bulls. Let's do it. I think Brady went there so he can face Belichick in the chip. That's the super alpha move.

That's what I think he did. That's a super alpha move. I think he's thinking, I hope I don't have to face him. Because you can also, I'm going to make sure I play you. I can go to the AFC. I go to the fucking Dolphins,

play you twice a year. Fuck you. You know where I think he could have gone? Where? The Knicks. And he loved playing at the Garden he loved playing at the Garden New York is a huge market

they would have worshipped him he would have finally got them the ring they hadn't had in 20 years at that point or whatever Patrick would have been a great number two amazing

fuck you Scotty Pippen yeah real talk fuck you man I don't know we don't know the whole scope of the league but that's

as we're talking it out that makes a ton of sense to me okay jordan at the garden every night that'd be perfect okay so then he decides to go play baseball there's a strike he stops playing baseball we'll rewind a little bit if jordan if there's no strike is there even a shadow of a doubt in any of your heads that jordan makes the majors as a baseball player? Yeah, a little bit, but I don't know anything about baseball. And I feel like Jordan played a real sport at a high level, so he could probably play baseball at a high level. A hundred percent. He definitely makes the majors. I truly believe that there is, in Jordan's prime, there is not a single physical activity

that he could not do at a professional level, given the amount of time he would need to train. I think if he won, he would be the best swimmer, despite, you know. I think if he won, he would be the best skier. I think if he won, he would be the best at whatever he chose to do. And I think it just comes down to God-given physical talent and God-given work ethic. And the work ethic is actually the thing that's more impressive to me. Because usually when you have that much physical talent, you're lazy because you can be. And he had the work ethic of a midget, of Muggsy Bogues. He had the work ethic of the smallest guy in the NBA

with the most perfect basketball body that we've ever seen. You put that into baseball, I swear to God, give Jordan two more years, you see him in the majors. Yeah. I mean, he was batting 200 after not touching a baseball bat for 14 years. Unbelievable. In double A.

And that's the other thing, double A, for everybody who's uh listening in europe or like south america these kind of or australia whatever the way uh baseball works is there are multiple divisions of uh minors minor yeah the minor leagues you don't start at double a you actually start at single a or rookie ball yeah so you can go rookie ball single a double a triple a so he's he's already jumped a division. I guess they said that because they didn't have adequate press facilities in the single A clubs.

But think about that. You start actually with better players. You get up to batting 200. You hit him 50 home runs. Apparently, they switched his average up towards the end when he was playing the spring ball in Arizona or something like that. And he was actually batting closer to mid twos in that series. I mean, it's just unbelievable.

50 RBIs is a lot, it seems like. He started the season on a 12 game, or he started his first season, 12 game hit streak. 13. It's just crazy. What do you think the equivalent would be to basketball? Like you don't play basketball for 14 years and you get put in the D League and then you put up like 10 field goals a game?

I think that double A, I don't know enough about baseball. The equivalent is Lynn Sanity. Being Asian and playing that well so quickly. That's the equivalent. That's super impressive, man. That's the greatest performance I've ever seen. What is that Lynn Sanity putting up 38 on Kobe's super impressive, man. That's the greatest performance I've ever seen. What is that? Insanity putting up 38 on Kobe. Yeah.

Shut up, son. This motherfucker. I'm just saying. You know what I mean? I get you so tight. Jordan would not allow that, son. Jordan would not allow that. Son, get out of here.

Yeah. Kobe's still the guy. Jordan would not allow an Asian guy to score 38 points. Kobe's the guy. Nah, nah. Jordan wouldn't allow that. Son, he was the Asian American. Say what?

He was the Asian American. Whatever, bro. So, I mean, it's just insane, like, this guy's dedication. And then talking about, like, hitting with his hands being raw. Yeah. Yeah. His manager, who's Terry Francona, who ended up being, his manager at the time,

who ended up being the manager of, like, multiple World Series teams, winners. A manager is the coach of a baseball team. He said, if this is a lot of at bats, he said with 1500 at bats, he could have gone to the majors. I don't even know if he would have needed that many.

I think he's saying that out of like respect for how hard the game is in his mind. But I mean, and to put this in perspective for anybody who's not familiar with baseball batting 200 is you, you hit the ball and you get on base two out of every 10 times you are an all-star in baseball if you bat if you bat 300 or over yeah you're an all-star you're a hall of famer if you bat you're a guaranteed hall of famer if you bat 315 i Guaranteed. I can believe it. I don't know. Right?

The highest batting average in 2019 in MLB was 335. Wow. Think about this. So it's like, yeah, it seems like crazy, but the single hardest thing of all sports is hitting a baseball. I think that's the single hardest thing you can do in sports is hit a baseball. I think golf. The only reason I say no is there are a lot of scratch golfers that aren't,

which means you golf par, that aren't pros. They're just country club guys that are like really good, and they can hit par golf, right? I don't know if there's scratch hit 90 mile per hour splitters out there. there you know like you're competing against another guy so your percentage is lower but yeah i don't i think about him playing nfl wide receiver i would have loved to have seen that he ran a 43840 at six foot six which is insane he ran under four four he ran in college now it's the handheld timer and they say that's slower than like the yeah because it takes you a second actually yeah but he ran a 438 i believe which is like even now at the combine that would be like holy fuck that's so fast by randy moss randy moss ran apparently for like

high four twos which is even crazier but jordan is two feet taller and can jump higher two inches but yeah two inches taller yeah yeah and jump. And I'm sure his catch radius is crazy. His longer arms. I mean, let's talk about hands alone. Massive fucking hands. Yeah, they say it's 40 times, 4.3 seconds. 4.3, yeah. 4.38, I think is what I heard.

But 4.3 is fucking crazy. Deion Sanders. Especially when you're not training for a 40. Like in basketball, who cares about a 40? He literally just put on some sneakers and ran straight. That's a great point. He would have been a fantastic wide receiver.

Basketball players need to bring back palming the ball and doing moves because it's... Oh, when you do the pump and the ball. That's just so fucking crazy.

I love it. And B does that a little. Yeah, but I mean more players need to do that. That shit just looks nuts. Yeah. It looks like he's playing with a toy ball.

Yeah. It is interesting when you look at uh kobe's hands and jordan's hands not only size but they they look almost muscular like when you see his hands in the documentary did you guys pay attention you see his like shooting finger this finger is kind of bent off to the side a little bit yeah but but like i don't know there's something there's something about that like it seems like the strongest part of them like that guy's fucking

hands man like yeah i don't have any muscles on my hands i have pretty big hands clearly but this ah dude bro he has a faster 40 times than odell beckham yeah faster forward time than uh julio jones faster than antonio brown i'm telling you it would have been any six six which is again Beckham? Yeah. Faster forward time than Julio Jones? Faster than Antonio Brown? I'm telling you, any 6'6", which is, again, Randy Moss was huge at 6'4". Jordan is taller with longer arms and bigger hands. It's crazy. That's nuts. Any sport.

Any sport. If he went pro. Tennis. Imagine tennis, dude. Oh, yeah. Imagine the amount that he could cover. Yeah, it'd be insane it's the serving like being tall helps you you're just because you're hitting down and every like

great server is always like six five six six just off of that he'd win he'd be good just off of that he could play anything he's built for basketball but he could play anything it's crazy to think about he could play anything what else what else there be? Where else would you have him? Probably swimming like he's at. Swimming would be nuts. Dude, swimming 100%. The size of the arms, the size of the hands. I mean, these are your paddles, right?

That's what your hands are. Yeah. Fucking nuts. Big feet, like flippers. I mean, whatever he wants to do, he can do it. He was built for basketball, but he could have played anything. Would you guys want to play with Jordan? I almost want to just as like a test for myself.

Like I want to see if I could handle that level of scrutiny and intensity and fuck you, you piece of shit. And I want to know that I would stand tall in the face of that. Yeah. It would not be fun though. I don't think so. No. Yeah, I don't think so. I should be miserable, bro. Yeah. You would just dread every single day yeah going to practice i'm gonna get yelled at

i'm gonna get beat up like if you don't have that same drive like trying to get on that level every day day after day is exhausting and i i know me personally i just have a problem like people talking down to me like that shit i'd be one of the first place to punch them back yeah i would i would want to do it i would want to do it but i like i could i'd maybe try it one season just to because if you know jordan is jordan at the time it's like okay i just want to be around greatness yeah but what if i and i want to know i can like i can handle the strongest level of scrutiny or whatever there's like a weird thing with me that's like i like to test myself like that like can you stand up to that but now what if you're playing in a pickup league and there's a guy with the same tenacity and like let's say like equivalents in the league as jordan i don't give a fuck because there's no stakes for me in a

pickup yeah and you're showing up to every game and he's yelling at you. That's me, but not as good. That's what, no, I remember, I literally was watching this and I was like, oh, how he talks to his teammates. That's how I talk to people

when we play basketball. Alex, we've played basketball before. Like, I have people who just don't talk to me anymore because of it. Just because of the way

we play basketball. Like, guys that are on the team, right? There's a certain guy we won't say names, but like, we're not friends anymore

just because of how I talk to them on the court that's hilarious yeah but did no one ever check you on that and be like yo what are they gonna do say i'm not gonna i don't want to do this anymore yeah i'm taking my ball i'm going home go home yeah no i didn't the league still goes on yeah in my mind better i used to do that shit when i was a kid and i would play with people and like i would scream at motherfuckers yeah my sister was like don't do that shit when I was a kid and I would play with people and I would scream at motherfuckers. And my sister was like, don't do that anymore. That's really dumb. And then I stopped. Usually the punch in the face usually makes you stop.

A physical altercation definitely changes things. For me, it probably would definitely change things. But I'd yell at motherfuckers when we're playing ball. It could be pickup. It could be anything. You see how crazy I am? Three on threes. Yeah, I know. In a three on three half court game, I will walk up and I'll take the ball away from you if the possession is important.

And you don't feel guilty afterwards? We should win. Afterwards. The game's over. You won. And everyone's like, let's go have drinks. And you're like, man, I'm really embarrassed that I was so crazy. No.

No. Because when you're in the game, it's different. Yeah. It's like rules don't exist when you're playing and then after the game you just forget what happened during the game right but then afterwards people were like man you were going really hard like nah because what happened in the game that's not part of real life right so you can't judge me by what happened in the game i remember yelling a kid in college and he just like it hurt his feelings so badly that i felt bad and i was like you know what i

could probably get away with this if i was taller but like getting yelled at by me it's got to be like extra like what the fuck man because he was like tall and he like kind of goofy and i gave him like a perfect like just right there under the basket pass and it went right through his hands and i look at him like what the fuck man and then the look in his eyes i was like oh i haven't been you can break motherfucking broken look i was like yeah shit i don't know breaking someone like that like there's a kid on our team that quit because like the seniors were too hard on him shouldn't be we were yelling at him shouldn't be there and his dad had just died and like he didn't deserve to play man shouldn't be there i saw him in class afterwards yeah he'd be like how's the team going and be like i'm sorry better if i know we can yell at each other let's go no no i know if you know

this is i think because me and you played a lot of pickup ball in new york city when new york city was rough outside so it was like it was constant shit talking like that was part of the game if you ain't talk shit like you were just you probably didn't play simple as that because some people try to like you'll call next and some And some people like, nah, nah, I got it. Like, no, I got next. Like, and so just to play is a fucking. There's a lot of animosity just playing. But also it like I come from a place where if you lost, you had to wait five games.

Like I didn't grow up in a fucking like country club where it's like, well, I'll just go shoot around over there. There was one court and there was 50 dudes and it was a fucking hour wait if i got to go on again so if you're missing layups or you're not playing d if you're not giving effort the fuck you're doing on the team that that's the way i looked at it was like what am i doing like even when we were playing in the league games like effort would drive you crazy if you're not giving effort i, go home. I'll, that's the thing about, I'll empty the tank. I'll always empty the tank. I'll never ask you to do more than I'm doing.

I'll never do, I'll always empty the tank. But if I see you not fucking making an effort, come on. No effort is rough. Come on, bro. But that's why like there's certain guys who will always be able to play.

Like me and Jamil will always be able to play well because I can say what, to whatever I want to Jamil. It doesn't matter. Heel. He's a robot. He's locked in. He's going to do exactly what he does. It doesn't matter what you say to him. No amount of shit talking could ever affect Jameel. He's kind of like Kawhi, actually.

He's Kawhi, though. There's no emotion. He can score mad threes. That's it. In your mouth. Bang, bang, bang. Simple as that. That's funny how you say that

Anyway Anything else we should touch on Nah let's wrap this up Check my little notes You haven't talked about Jordan crying At the end of Episode 8

We did First thing we talked about End of episode 7 Did I miss it No no not at episode 7 When he's like on the ground sobbing Oh yeah Oh yeah

Yeah Fuck Yeah he killed his dad I almost got emo That's the only thing That made me think He killed his dad I almost got emo That's the only thing That made me think He killed his dad When he was crying

He was like Some type of crying I was like Weeping That's an exorcism bro That's like You hold that shit in For a long time

Yeah I almost got emo At that shit Did you? Yeah because to see Hearing it dude Hearing it Yeah to hear that

To see this maniacal Motherfucker Weep like that I'm like whoa That's coming from deep you know what I thought if I was fucking what is Scott Burrell

whatever I'd be in there like man get off the ground you whimpering ass bitch who's a hoe now that was you that was you

watching Upward don't talk about that movie Disney's been fucking advertising that shit i can't even see the advertisement bro how are you gonna do a part two he loses mom just everybody around his motherfucker dies oh man yo you know i thought of when i saw that i was like man you can't even cry in private if you're michael jordan like your most vulnerable

moment in your entire life there's four cameras. Yo, turn the light off or something. It was too bright. I can't cry in that bright. That's why he's covering his eyes, you think? Yeah, it was just like so, it was like hospital room bright in there. Son, he still did the post-game interview. That's where I'm like, this guy's a little sociopathic. I remember Dirk, as a Mavs fan, won a championship,

and it had been so many years. Before the game is over, he runs off the court, starts crying in the locker room. They have to force him to come out for the post game jordan gets the ball he's on the ground does the post game compartmentalizes everything then goes to the locker room and fucking weeps like we've never heard anybody weep before wow that's like the level of compartmentalization that takes to be like yeah i'm listen i'm gonna do this and then i'm gonna go fucking lose my mind. To me, that's like, this guy's crazy. But do y'all not do that?

Do y'all not save up cries? Yeah. No, no, no. Yeah, of course. I mean, that's a real thing. That's why I get it out on the plane. Yeah. I hold whatever shit that gets built up, and then I'll watch something sad to invoke it, and then just let it out on the plane and nobody's paying attention to me and boom, get it out.

I cry once a quarter. I give myself a good cry once a quarter. Yeah. And I have like, I'll watch like top 10 like saddest movies. I have my things

that I can go to. I'll go like top 10 saddest movie scenes. I'll do the, what's the guy who died from cancer that there's the ESPN guy. He had that long term.

Oh, damn. John Valvano, whatever, Jimmy V. I'll watch the jimmy v black guy with the lazy stewart scott no no no that shit don't tear me up the stewart scott shit um but to my practice the jimmy v bro i don't just be crying no no no no no no i don't feel shit i just gotta cry to remind myself what feelings i don't got time for that shit but it bubbles up and every once in a while i go i honestly crying and jerking off like if i wasn't fucking regular for like a couple weeks i'd be like why am i in a bad mood what the fuck is going on and then oh shit did i not nut for a couple weeks all right let me jerk off

and i get it out i'm good crying is like jerking off both of them i just need that release but i fuck more than i cry oh that's why they call it a tear that's why you're a man yo you fuck more than you cry like a man that's what men do bro that's what men do but for real i need to get a cry out every once in a while and that's why i don't like that say again what was the last time you cried that onward shit fuck with me because it like a tat i didn because I didn't want to get it out yet. I wasn't ready for me to do it. Right. And it was just, you can't.

There's nothing I could do in that moment. The gates opened. The levees broke. That was it. That was it. Damn. Even now to this day. I just thought about, I'm going to bring the VR on the planes.

And then if I cry. You're going to mist up the VR. Yeah. Shit's going to get filled up with water. Yeah, yeah. You can't do that. You can't. You got to take that shit off to cry bro everybody's just looking at you man i just be crying i don't know what y'all talking about i don't know how you do that yeah

when was your last purge when you compartmentalize that's purge i think it was also on work son the quarantine must be rough on you dog huh quarantine must be rough on you you can't well yesterday almost during this fucking documentary that scene where jordan i always felt that so when you cry do you do the same andrew's gonna let that cry out like two to three months watching jordan be sad it's in there a little it's like two percent in you and then in two three months we're gonna be on a plane you're gonna watch a rerun of coco yeah you'll let it out around mid-augugust, I think. What month is it now? Spider-Man. Enter the fucking Spider-Verse.

That's the thing with me. It could be a ring. I just realized this. It's not the movie. It's where I am at the stage. Yeah. Right, if you're filling up. You know what it is? You know that when you go to the arcade

and that game that got all the quarters, they're pushed up to the end, and you think one quarter that you put in could push everything out that's what i am with crying so that's how i knew onward was good because there wasn't even quarters on it and it filled you up so much that shit just fell right off it just shot up let's wrap this up all right last thing i want to say craig sager is a g dog the first question of the first episode he's asking Jerry Krause, you think it's going to be tough to win with all the backstabbing, you know, between you and the coach?

Like, he goes right at that motherfucker. That was Craig Sager? That was Sager, yeah. They said Craig Sager. And I was like, yo, geez, I see why he gets respect. Because he didn't say, he didn't stop it with all the backstabbing going on and all the rumors. He just says, between you and the coach.

And then Jerry Krause gets super defensive but like the balls to ask that question man great for you great for you r.i.p man yeah for real r.i.p that's right someone after it goes good job craig yeah you hear that in the background yeah oh that's great what a beast dude anyway man one more weekend of this it's a shame it's coming to an end so sad i love talking about the you know what's interesting this is how i could tell how invested we all are in this is when we come and do a regular episode of flagrant we're just busting balls joking around like making fun of each other and center when we come in here it's business it's business bro like i feel like

we're breaking this shit down like you know like like CNN talks about a debate or something like that. Like, I don't even want to joke around. Like there are times where I'm like, ah, Joe could go here, but it wouldn't make sense. It wouldn't,

it wouldn't be appropriate. It wouldn't be appropriate. Like we are respectful. It's not weird. Wait, Scotty Pippen selfish or not? This is serious. It's so inconsequential

what we're talking about like it's basketball it means nothing it's stupid I judge people who like are really into politics that was disrespectful

but what I'm into it's stupid right like go on go on what you say but what I'm into sports I'm so into all of it

and it has no consequence on anything in the world or nothing but I look at people who follow politics I'm like y'all fucking dorks

fucking stupid ass fucking idiot he signed this bill what like, y'all fucking dorks. Nerds. Nerds. Fucking stupid ass pussies. Fucking idiot. He signed this bill. What you know about bills, you fucking dork? There was a bill signed in 84. Shut the fuck up. Right?

Yeah. How many points Jordan having his third season in the league, huh? Oh, fuck. Anyway, y'all. Thank you all for listening, man. One more weekend. One more fucking weekend. It's sad to come see it

come to it's sad to see it come to an end um but I like doing these multiple episodes a week yeah enjoy it

alright y'all peace God bless