Andy & Ari On3 - A coach accuses Alabama of STEALING a kicker | Iowa's Kirk Ferentz explains his suspension

Episode Date: August 23, 2024

This show is presented by Wendy’s!   You’ve had Wendy’s Nuggs dipped in sauce. But have you had them covered in sauce?Wendy’s New Saucy Nuggs take the Crispy and Spicy Nuggs you love and turn them up to 11.Choose between flavors like Buffalo. Honey BBQ. Garlic Parm. Or, if you’re a real heat seeker,try Spicy Ghost Pepper, only on Wendy’s signature Spicy Nuggs. We dare you. We’re one day away from actual football, and the news is flying like crazy. Miami (Ohio) coach Chuck Martin accused Alabama of illegally recruiting Redhawks kicker, saying the Crimson Tide “stole” Graham Nicholson in the spring transfer portal window. Iowa coach Kirk Ferentz explained why he’s suspended for the Hawkeyes’ season opener against Illinois State. A former Colorado assistant detailed how he went to Saudi Arabia to seek money from the nation’s Public Investment Fund — the entity that funds the LIV Tour in golf — to seek NIL donations. It didn’t work, and the assistant resigned earlier this month. Later, Senior Bowl executive director Jim Nagy joins Andy to discuss the sheer depth of talent in college football this season. Because of the COVID year and NIL, more players have stayed in school longer. That has created a surplus of NFL-quality players. Nagy turns his scout’s eye on: Penn State QB Drew Allar Georgia WR Dillon Bell Florida State DT Darrell Jackson Jr. And more… Want to watch the show instead? Join us on YouTube, LIVE, M-F, at 8 am et! https://youtube.com/live/dHbcaIqFivsHost: Andy StaplesGuest: Jim NagyProducer: River Bailey

Welcome to Andy Staples on three. Our long national nightmare is almost over 28 hours from now. There will be real football. Real football played. Not in the United States of America, but in Dublin, Florida State, Georgia Tech. Week zero. We're so close we can taste it, everybody. But before actual football gets played, we still have some nonsense from the offseason to take care of. And we got just getting an extra dose of the nonsense in the offseason right before the real football. And I kind of appreciate that.

This offseason was a very newsy one. It was very, just there was always something going on. And I appreciate that we can't give way to the actual season without some more grab assery in the offseason. We will start with an accusation of theft. Yes, theft. Miami of Ohio coach Chuck Martin was doing his coach's show on the official website for Miami of Ohio. And I think the idea was a nice little segment about the competition to become the Red Hawks' new starting kicker. At least that's what the host was hoping for.

That's not what happened, though. Take it away, Chuck. All right, special teams, lost your kicker, Carter McGlock. We didn't lose him. He's at Alabama. We know exactly where he's at. Again, you media people, it's all pretend like, no, Alabama stole our kicker.

They illegally recruited our kicker and stole they illegally recruited they illegally recruited our kicker and stole them from us and like that's that's a fact but that's that's but we act like it's not we live in this la la world like hey let's not talk I don't know why everybody knows what's going on so yeah Alabama stole our kicker um a couple of a couple other schools tried to steal it but then they okay what's the question the kicker in question is Graham Nicholson he was the Lou the Toegroza award winner last year for the best kicker in college football first team all-american which makes sense why everybody would want him he entered

the transfer portal in december did not leave miami got interest from multiple schools as chuck martin pointed out but did not leave and then entered it again in April and went to Alabama where he is a preseason All-American for the Crimson Tide. I love this because I get coaches complaining to me frequently about this guy pampered, this coach stole my player, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But they never want to go on the record about it. Chuck Martin's like, don't blah, blah, blah. But they never want to go on the record about it. Chuck Martin's like, don't care. Official school website.

Let's roll. Because here's the thing. My thing is always, if you're going to complain about it, do something about it. I remember having somebody complain. This is pre-transfer portal, pre-lifting of the transfer rules. Like you still had to sit out a year if you transferred when this was going on. And somebody from a school says, hey, we've got texts from this other school, from assistant coaches at this other school, not even support staffers, assistant coaches to our players saying, hey, would you want to transfer here? And I'm like, wow, you caught him red-handed.

You're going to take that to the NCAA, right? And it's like, well, it's sort of, my friend Max Olson from ESPN always says this, why don't coaches publicly blast other coaches that they think are tampering? Because all coaches, as Max says, reserve the right to tamper. But Chuck Martin is never going to be tampering with Alabama. He's probably not getting Alabama players to come to Miami of Ohio unless they've completely washed out at Alabama. So it's not like he's going to go grab one of their starters. So there's no reason not to put them on blast

if you feel like they did something wrong. Now, obviously, we want to be fair here. Kalen DeBoer spoke to reporters in Tuscaloosa on Thursday. He was asked about this. Before we get started, the Miami of Ohio coach accused you guys of tampering with the recruitment of Graham Nicholson. Do you have a response to that? I don't know anything about that. I guess that comment. Yeah, I mean, you entered the portal and we reached out to him. So that's how it goes, right?

So we did everything that we were supposed to. So I guess we'll find out what happened. If there's more to this, then there's more to this. If there's not, there's not. But Chuck Martin put it out there into the universe. And that is what I would rather see, mostly for entertainment purposes, because this is hilarious. Look, if you have a Lou Groza award winner at a Mac school, you better believe all of the power conference schools are going to try to get him.

I'm sorry. That's just how it goes. At this point, if you are a first team performer in a group of five league, first team all conference, you're going to get tampered with. That's just how it goes. But the question is, are you being tampered with in a way that anybody can catch, that anybody can do anything about? Because that's the other thing I ask the coaches. You say you want this stopped, but you guys all do it. Are you prepared

to face the consequences if you get caught? And the answer to that usually is, well, you have to be pretty stupid to get caught. Because if you would like to tamper, there's a lot of ways to do it. First of all, the coaches on the staff don't need to be the ones doing the tampering. You have somebody else do the tampering, or you talk to somebody several places removed from the actual person, like their high school coach or their trainer, their private QB coach, if it's a quarterback. And a lot of times these people all understand how the game is played. So they're not going to narc you out. And basically you say, Hey, how's so-and-so doing? Are they all right?

How's his mama? Everything good? You know, we might have an opening in his position next year. Just saying, just saying. And that's how you do it. Verbally in a phone call, not in a text message, not in a DM, not in writing. That's how you don't get caught. But again, not all college coaches are smart. Not all college coaches do it that way. The example I gave earlier, those were text messages in writing. So there's an opportunity for more entertainment here, is what I'm saying. If these coaches would just get it right and stop complaining privately and start complaining publicly, we will be highly entertained because it's going to be WWE style.

Look, Chuck Martin cut a promo on Thursday. That was brilliant. We want more of that. More of that. Mars, tell us how to tamper the right way, Andy. I'm taking notes. AJ Adams appreciates that. See, AJ Adams, I can tell AJ Adams where AJ's from in the country.

How's your mama and them? That's right. Now, in this case, remember, you're talking to someone multiple places removed from that person. So how's his mama and them? That's the way you do it. See, remember, I'm the person who wrote cheating for dummies back in the day. Maybe the best column I ever wrote at Sports Illustrated was 2011. I actually wrote it on the 4th of July. I was waiting for a pork butt to finish smoking. And it was when

Chip Kelly got in trouble for writing a check to Will Lyles, who was a Texas-based recruit handler who helped Oregon get some players. And they said, we're going to make Will Lyles a recruiting service. We just pay him with a check. And the incident was like, we know what he does. You just paid him with a check. It's sort of like when Jerry Springer, when he was the mayor of Cincinnati, he got caught paying a hooker with a check. There's certain people you don't pay with a check. So I made cheating for dummies. It was a seven rule list of things you should do if you want to cheat. Three of the rules were always pay cash. Rules one, four, and seven were always pay cash. One of the rules was always use a burner. One of the rules were always pay cash. Rules one, four, and seven were always pay cash. One of the rules was always use a burner.

One of the rules was nothing in writing. So again, if you want to tamper the nothing in writing part of that rule, you're probably going to be okay. But if you're not careful, you might get caught. And if you get caught, things happen, which brings us to Iowa. Kirk Ferentz is suspended for the Illinois State game. John Budmeier, their receivers coach, also suspended for the Illinois State game. This is regarding the recruitment of Cade McNamara, the quarterback who transferred

from Michigan before last season. And apparently there was illegal contact. We will let Kirk Ferentz explain what happened. And based on those discussions, the communication has been determined to be a potential level two NCAA violation. So therefore, I've made the decision in conjunction with the athletic director to recommend a self-imposed one-game suspension

and also including a loss of one week off-campus recruiting. I will not be coaching in the season opening game next week against Illinois State, nor will John Budmeier, receiver coach John Budmeier. So we'll both serve that suspension. I shared this information with our staff and players this morning and the families of our players this afternoon. And I think it's important to, you know, that I be here today to visit with you. That was the plan.

And I also wanted the fans to hear this from me as well. Andrew, the chat says, if you want to cheat, you got to do it properly and take the kid out for a burger. At breakfast, Andrew, a burger at breakfast. Remember, that's the key. That was the key piece of evidence in the Michigan case. But that's Kirk Ferentz talking about what happened and deemed an illegal contact, impermissible contact, not illegal. Let's remember there's no state statute against this, but it is an impermissible contact. Stephen Wilson says, Iowa has a receivers coach? What does he do? I love that. That joke never gets old.

Never gets old. I've seen it multiple times in the last few days. Still funny every time. So there's actually a little more intrigue to this Iowa thing. Because this isn't a case where Iowa turned itself in. Now, they did self-impose this suspension. This is basically them saying, we're going to impose this one game suspension. And we hope that satisfies the NCAA, which given the way they've handled it, I think it probably will.

Kirk Ferentz is saying, I did it. I messed up. I'm sorry. Which, by the way, kids out there, I tell my own kids this all the time. If you're willing to say, I did it, I messed up, I'm sorry. That handles a lot of situations in life. Now, you may still get punished, but the punishment is usually going to be a little bit softer. If you just say, I did it, I messed up, I'm sorry.

As opposed to, I don't recall that. Well, here's a receipt for the cheeseburger. I also don't recall that. My recollection remains cloudy. That makes things more complicated. I messed up and I'm sorry does not make things complicated. And I would imagine that the NCAA does not do more to Kirk Ferentz because he will, he just said,

I did it. I messed up and I'm sorry. Now, again, there is more intrigue though. So Beth gets the, the Iowa athletic director was asked, how would everybody find out about this?

Hi, Scott Dockerman with the athletic. This is actually for both Kirk and for Beth. My question is, how was the NCAA apprised of this matter? Was this something that you turned in? Was it something that they discovered? Or was there another school involved that actually turned you in? Again, I apologize, there's little we can say but in this case we were notified

of the violation by the ncaa i gotta say this i appreciate kirk ferentz and beth getz so much for this because even though beth gets started that answer with there's only so much i can say because that's what the way the ncaa enforcement process process works is it puts a gag order on everybody. It says, you can't say anything about anything. And what that is, is a way to keep the schools, the coaches, the athletic directors from having to say anything about it. It allows them to just say, well, the NCAA says we can't say anything, so we're not. But Beth Getz actually gives us some real information here. And I appreciate that.

They got turned in by somebody else we actually don't know who it doesn't necessarily mean they were turned in by michigan they could have been turned by somebody else who wanted kate mcnamara to come to their team but we'll find probably find that out later that probably will come out but that is another layer of intrigue so who turned him in david says is there a caden proctor investigation too i would assume maybe but who are we investigating we're investigating iowa for tampering with caden proctor while he was at alabama or alabama for tampering with caden proctor while he was at iowa that's one of those like can we have offsetting penalties in NCAA enforcement? That would be awesome.

Like the NCAA Committee on Infractions has this conference call, like, we're declaring offsetting penalties on this. Both schools did it, two or the other. So we're just going to say no harm, no foul? I think that'd be great. So I had a question in the chat, how to find the cheating for dummies. Mars asks, how do we find the cheating for dummies column?

Well, I can't throw the link up right now. Producer River may be able to throw the link into the chat. It is still, because a lot of the stuff I wrote for Sports Illustrated has disappeared from the website. This one has not. If you Google, just put my name in quotes, put Andy Staples in quotes, put the phrase cheating for dummies in quotes, it will be the first thing that comes up. The second thing that comes up will be an article from Bear Insider, which is a Cal site. And the headline is SI's Andy Staples is a moron. So I think the bear insider was offended that I was telling coaches how to cheat because they were bad at it and they needed help. And I'm sorry, well, I'm not sorry.

I'm not sorry. All right, a little more from Kirk Ferentz. Another thing I appreciate about Kirk Ferentz, and I said this before, but I'm gonna say it again. I did it, I messed up, I'm going to say it again. I did it. I messed up. I'm sorry. Takes you a long way in life.

Chatalized to Cal columnist in Iowa. Great at his job. Asked a question that kind of gives Ferentz some wiggle room or a chance to kind of blast away. And Ferentz, once again, just goes back to, I did it. I messed up. I'm sorry. Chad Lyce, the co-advoin registrar for Kirk Ferentz. I guess just piecing together just this, I don't know if you want to call it bad luck

or what between the gambling, the Caden Proctor situation and this. I mean, I guess how would you kind of summarize just sort of like these things happening to you guys where I think the general consensus is out there in the world, like there's a lot of the same stuff going on. Yet I was kind of in the headlines here. Yeah. You know, I'll say this. I think there's some unique circumstances surrounding this particular case. But, you know, the bottom line is it was impermissible contact. That's what the investigation's about. And, you know, the facts

are the facts. And so there's a line, and I crossed that line. I made a bad error in judgment, and I'm just going to take ownership, and I'm not lumping it with anything else. This is something, and to me, this whole issue really is about a judgment or a decision that I made that's unfortunate. And we just want to address it. And then we want to move forward. I did it. I messed up.

I'm sorry. I did it. I messed up. I'm sorry. Can take you so far. I've had that. We've all, if you're a parent, you've had that conversation with your kids, like where, you know, they did something they weren't supposed to do.

And they just keep making excuses about it. And you're like, stop, just say you did it. And you're sorry. And we can end this whole thing. And I've said to, to my kids in, on multiple occasions, like, if you keep making excuses, I'm going to make this worse for you. Because that's what, when it's their boss coming to them, I just want them to say, I did it. I messed up. I'm sorry. Because again, that's going to help them. Kirk Ferentz, teaching life lessons. Punting is winning. I did it. I messed up. I'm sorry.

One more thing, though, from this Kirk Ferentz press conference. He basically announced a starting quarterback. Remember, that's been a question mark. There was a public scrimmage last week. And we were wondering, like, is Kate McNamara going to be the guy? Because Brendan Sullivan, who would have been the starting quarterback at Northwestern, transferred in to Iowa in the spring portal window. I was like, okay, are we sure? Well, now we know.

Here's Kirk Farris. I think I've commented about, you know, Kate's lack of playing time behind a full offense, you know, playing with 11 guys on the field. And then you think about Brendan coming in here starting new in June, you know, so a lot to learn. And I guess there's been some back and forth, some ups and downs, those types of things.

But both guys this week have just looked more comfortable and they've done a lot of good things. And so, you know, today's Thursday. You know, Cade's done a really nice job. He's had a really good week. And I think Brendan's done the same thing. So coincidentally, ironically, however you's Thursday. You know, Cade's done a really nice job. He's had a really good week, and I think Brennan's done the same thing. So, coincidentally, ironically, however you want to look at it, I was looking at some – peeked at some tape from a year ago,

Summer Don't Ask Me Why, last week, and it was right after Cade injured his quad in the preseason workout out there. And it was a pretty limited room at that point. So, I mean, the big takeaway is we're much healthier at that position in terms of game experience, depth, those types of things. Marco's doing a good job too. Just like what I see with the quarterback room, hot shaping up right now. If we were playing tomorrow, K to be one, Brandon to be two, Marco to be three. There it is. There you have

it. AJ in the chat, Sullivan's going to take that. Mark will be three. There it is. There you have it. AJ in the chat. Sullivan's going to take that job in week three. Producer River points out, Iowa's a 23 and a half point favorite over Illinois State, which let's get some Iowa jokes off here. That requires them to score 23 and a half points. Are we sure they can do that? Maybe this time. Maybe. New offensive coordinator, Tim Lester. There's a little nature nurture question with Kirk not being at the game, too.

So if they hang 60 on Illinois State, I'm not sure what we're going to extrapolate from that. Although, as Rocky Top Tom points out, the defense might score 23.5 points. The total of that game is 42.5. What did we learn here last year? What did we learn here last year? Take the Iowa under. Willie Thomas, Iowa could definitely score half a a point they might be the only school that could figure out how to do that oh my listen if you're enjoying these iowa offense jokes which we may not be able to squeeze off much longer if tim lester actually improves the Iowa offense, just savor them.

But if we don't have them anymore, at least we have the flavor of Wendy's nugs. That's right. This is Andy Staples on three presented by Wendy's. And you've had Wendy's nugs dips in sauce, but have you had them covered in sauce, smothered in sauce, even covered and smothered in sauce. When he's new saucy nugs,

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I'm assuming it was in Riyadh. That is the capital city. But Trevor Riley, for those who don't know, former Colorado assistant. This story comes to us from James Parks at Sports Illustrated. And it's something. So Trevor Riley was one of the assistants that came with deon sanders from jackson state part of his job was going out and seeking donations for nil well trevor riley apparently took it upon himself to think outside the box a little bit. And he's thinking, okay, so the Saudi public investment

fund, that's the people who fund live golf. Basically they bought a bunch of the best golfers in the world for extraordinary sums, created their own golf league. These guys left the PGA and you know, there's a lot of back and forth. Why are the Saudis doing this? The concept is called sports washing. So they're running the sport. We talk about them running the sport. We don't talk about other things that are going on. My friend David Oven at The Athletic, as soon as the live thing happened, the first place his mind went, he wrote a story about this, is at what point is

some college football program going to try to get Saudi money? Well, now we know. This was that point. Now, it was not an athletic department going to do it, saying, hey, come stake us a little bit. Because I always thought that was going to be a little bit of a bridge too far. Because you have mostly public universities, I would imagine politicians in those states would never allow a foreign body, foreign government, essentially, to buy a stake in something that that university is doing. But NIL is different. Remember, NIL is separate, at least for now. So can you imagine the Saudis like buying

first team all-MAC left guards? Well, Trevor Riley could. Now, apparently this was not his first plan. His initial plan, according to the letter that James Parks obtained, that is Trevor Riley's resignation letter, he resigned earlier this month, is he was going to go after, quote, my contacts in the Mormon community, which is worth about $3 trillion. Now, Trevor Riley played football at Utah, so that's probably where those contacts come in. Now, I would point out that Colorado is in the Big 12 with a certain university that might be better at drawing donations from the LDS community. Just saying. I'm guessing they're going to want to help out BYU first, being that the church owns the school. Just a thought. But maybe that's

what Trevor Riley ran into, and maybe that's why he said, you know what? Let's check out the Saudis. Colorado, for its part, was like, we had nothing to do with this. He was acting on his own. Oh God, please make this stop. I added that last part, but I'm pretty sure that's what Colorado's spokesperson said when they hung up the phone. Never gets old. Never gets old with Coach Prime's team. They open the season against North Dakota State less than a week from now, Thursday of next week.

It's going to be so much fun this season. I'm telling you right now, this is going to be a beautiful season for a couple of reasons. One of the reasons, the talent in college football is pretty much as deep as it's ever been. And our guy, Phillip Dukes, Dukes the Scoop, on his show, The 5 Star Flex, had a great interview this week with Drew Rosenhaus. I highly recommend everybody subscribe to the On3 Recruits channel, one, and go find this interview. Go watch this interview.

It's on the On3 Recruits channel. It's a long conversation with Drew Rosenhaus about how NIL works from an agent's perspective, how the agent business changed with NIL. But one of the things Drew Rosen has talked about is how differently college football players make their stay in school or go to the draft decision. Speaking of sound financial decisions,

how much have you seen NIL impact potential NFL draftees who may not have to rush a decision because they're already making money? It's very prevalent right now. There are a lot of guys that return to school that we were talking to on an NIL basis. Many guys decided to stay. They were making hundreds of thousands of dollars. They felt like they needed more time to develop on and off the field. Felt like another year of education, more growth personally, professionally would benefit them before tackling the NFL draft. One of the great residuals of NIL is we're seeing fewer players enter the draft as underclassmen

and more players fully taking advantage of the college experience, developing from a maturity standpoint, both in terms of on the field and off the field. I think it's tremendous. We're seeing fewer players come out early that go late or go undrafted. Really what we hope is we get into a system where the players who come out early are drafted in the first three rounds and everyone else does well enough in NIL to stay in school and build their career and hopefully become a higher draft pick the

following season, or at least set themselves up to have more success in the NFL. So that is Drew Rosenhaus. And that is a very good point. And that feeds into our next guest, Jim Nagy, the executive director of the Senior Bowl. He has a very tough job and his scouting staff has a very tough job this year because that sentiment that Drew Rosenhaus just expressed, plus that COVID year in 2020 that changed eligibility for a lot of guys, has made this the deepest talent pool in the history of college football.

So for NFL scouts, they've got to parse through this, but the senior bowl put out its watch list with over 800 players on it, which is an all-time record. We're probably not going to see one this long again, but what makes this so fascinating, this is a document. You're going to see a list. You're going to see a few more times as we, as we go through this early season, because I'm curious to see what correlation there is between how many basically NFL players. So these are, these are players who can be in it. These are draft eligible. So no freshmen or sophomores here, but players who can be in an NFL camp next year, according to the senior bowl scouts, that they're either going to be drafted. They're going to make rosters, or they're at least going to be in a camp. And it's very interesting how many each school has. Last year, Michigan had an

overwhelming number. This year, Ole Miss has the most with 21. Georgia, as you'dM also has 20. So fascinating look at who's got the most potential NFL players. Let's talk about that with our friend Jim Nagy from the Senior Bowl. We welcome Jim Nagy, the executive director of the Reese's's senior bowl and jim has put out my favorite uh piece of content this week the senior bowl watch list jim as usual i've turned it into a research document uh i sent this to you earlier uh broke down how many players on each college team are on your watch list and then ranked those uh as you uh as you predicted at SEC Media Days, Ole Miss, top of the list at 21. But how did you decide who goes on this list and where the cut line is? Yeah, it's a great question, Andy. What's the number? 859 players on the list this year.

That's honestly a little bigger than we'd like it to be. It's quite a bit bigger than we normally have. I want this thing to be a little more selective, but it just goes back to a grade level on our grading scale. And again, to me, if they have a realistic chance to play in the senior bowl, that means they have a realistic chance to get drafted. So what we don't want to do is put a bunch of guys on the list that, you know, create a bunch of some false hope, right? That they're going to get drafted. Like I just, I'm sensitive to that.

You know, being a former NFL scout, I've seen some guys be really disappointed on draft weekend. So we're not trying, we're never trying to do that. You know, ideally this number in the past has been in the 400s, you know, 500 maybe, but we just were dealing with a much bigger number this year. This is the last year of that, the extra COVID year that these guys can use. So a huge number of fifth and sixth year seniors in this year's draft class. It's a, it's a huge class. And then we had a junior. So there's 81 juniors, which has never been a thing in the past.

You know, the NFL kind of changed that up on us last year, which is an awesome thing, but they did it after the watch list came out last year so they weren't on it and then uh we gave the the specialists some love this year we haven't had kickers and punters and snappers so they're they're on there too so it's a big list um but again i i would you know for the people out there that followed the draft i'm you know just think like free agent level and above we think these guys are all like camp level players are better. So that's that's kind of where the cutoff line was on our grading scale. So because of that COVID year, and because of NIL, where you

know, you have some guys stay in college, because financially, it might be beneficial to them to do that. But is this the deepest group of draft eligible players you've seen in a while? Yeah, it has to be because of that. You know, we kind of peaked in 2019, digging back into some numbers. You know, on the junior thing, we peaked, it was in the 140s, I want to say, guys that came out early. And again, a lot of those guys, sometimes knowingly weren't making great football decisions for themselves, but they had a, you know, a family circumstance they had to help take care of or whatnot, you know.

And so there they might know they they were going to be a late round pick or even a free agent. But you know what? I got to take my shot. I got I got to make some money. I got to help, you know, mom and dad out or whoever's raising me. But now with NIL, that that's not the case. Now, these guys can be much smarter with their football decisions. So, yeah, you're seeing a lot more guys stay in. So the number of the junior number last year was fifty nine guys. And that's why we could have went crazy with the junior number on the watch list. But again, we didn't want to do that. You know, we these relationships that we have and similar to you have, Andy, you've got great relationships at the college level with these coaches like you don't want to jeopardize that. So like we don't want to just throw a bunch of junior good juniors on the list. Like we wanted to have the guys that, you know, if I called a head coach, he'd be like, yes, if the guy is a good year, like we probably think he's going to leave.

You know, it's one of those. So that's why that number was only 81. That could have even been a bigger number so um that's kind of where we landed on this whole thing yeah and it's it's interesting looking at it because it some of the things i i look at when i see the just the raw numbers make more sense because i've been curious as to why vegas has been so high on texas a m for example like they have an eight and a half win total uh They're favored against Notre Dame. That line is actually moving

even more toward Texas A&M. And then I call up your list. Well, they've got 20 guys on it. That's third most. Well, tied with Georgia for second most. So it's more than Alabama has. That's

wild, but I've started to kind of reevaluate because, you know, I used to evaluate talent in programs by Okay, what did you bring in at a high school? How highly ranked were they? Now I'm looking at it more of how many NFL players are on your roster. And especially in the transfer portal era, because you may bring in somebody who either you're going to develop into an NFL player or is already kind of at that level and just wants to play at a higher level for their last year in college it does seem like this is a pretty good way to judge potential

success yeah I've been asked that and I and I just answer it the way you did I mean you look at NFL talent on these rosters that usually equates to who the better teams are. I had a number of people ask me that yesterday. You know, does this mean that Ole Miss and A&M and Georgia, these teams up top, are going to be great teams? And I don't know if they're going to win the national championship, but like last year, Ole Miss had the most amount of players. They won 11 games and, you know, beat Penn State in a New Year's Six Peach Bowl.

And Michigan, I think, was the number two team, and they won 11 games and you know one that you know beat Penn State in a New Year's Six Peach Bowl and in Michigan I think was the number two team and they won the national championship so there usually is a correlation between you know NFL draft picks and the success of a team very rarely do we get to April and a team has you know 10 guys drafted and they weren't very good in the fall so um it's not a perfect yeah it's not a perfect one because somebody might have good freshmen and sophomores, too. But correct. Good old players tend to beat good young players. Correct. And, you know, you follow the high school stuff way more closely than I do. But recruiting wasn't really an issue with Jimbo Fisher. I mean, they were they were bringing in talent. And the reason I know that I went there last year during august camp um and one of our former scouts is on the staff there now and he was kind of walking around the

practice field with me you know during practice and pointing out okay this guy you know we love this young guy we love this young guy he was a five star he was a five star um so that i don't think talent was the issue at a&m and i think we we, you and I both know, and most fans know, A&M fans, what Mike Elko is going to bring. He's going to bring a lot of discipline. He's going to bring a lot of toughness, you know, especially on the defensive side of the ball. So when you look at, there was already talent in place. And then you look at what Coach Elko has done in a place like Duke with far less talent. I think that's where people in Vegasgas and i'm not a gambler

but i'm sure that's where the people in vegas are looking at like wow you know the aggie should be the aggie should be good this fall yeah yeah and it makes sense so i wanted to ask you about a few of the guys on the list and you know we talk about a lot of these guys and have talked about them all off season but you know some of them don't get the same shine as some of their teammates and these are the guys who help you win championships and one guy you you pointed this guy out the other day on Twitter and I thought about you know I don't know if I've mentioned his name since the Rose Bowl well maybe since the national title game

but Josiah Stewart at Michigan edge player at Michigan blows up the final play of the Rose Bowl helps Michigan beat Alabama. Uh he was a Coastal Carolina transfer huge huge reason they won the national title last year, but I've spent all off season talking about Will Johnson and Kenneth Grant and Mason Graham, but like how important is Josiah Stewart to to what Michigan does really important and so is Derek Moore. I mean, usually –

Yeah, the other guy who blew up that play. Yeah, I mean, those guys are really good players. And I was just up in Ann Arbor last week, so, again, that's why some of the Michigan stuff is top of mind. I was in the building talking to those guys, and Mason Graham and Kenneth Grant have gotten a lot of love, right? Like, they don't need it from me. They've gotten a lot of love.

They know the senior bowl likes them. But you lose two edge players like Braden McGregor, who's having a great training camp so far with the Jets, and Jalen Harrell, same thing. I mean, he had two sacks the other night for the Tennessee Titans against the Seahawks. Most college teams lose two edge guys like that. They're in trouble.

Now Michigan's going to, gonna you know just elevate basically elevate derek moore and josiah stewart into those roles and look out and so you know to me josiah like digging into the tape i've posted a couple clips of this guy um not the biggest guy in the world um he reminds me a little bit of josh uche from a couple years ago i had double digit sacks two years ago for the new england patriots josh had 11 sacks and and uh they're similar guys and uh you know i remember josiah going back three years ago um coastal carolina came here to town to play south alabama and i was out there to see isaiah likely their tight end who ended up playing the senior bowl and has become a really good player for the

baltimore ravens um and that coastal staff pointed him out. They're like, you're going to be after this guy, you know, in two or three years. He had 12 and a half sacks that freshman year. As a true freshman, I don't care if you're playing division three ball or in the power of five, you get 12 and a half sacks as a true freshman right out of high school. That's big time pass rush ability. So, and now here we are. Now he is a senior and he's at Michigan. He's not at Coastal anymore, unfortunately for those guys, but, but he's, he's a, he's a big time player guy, five and a half sacks last year as a rotational piece at Michigan. And so to me with more snaps this year and kind of a more prominent role, um, who knows, I think he and Derek Moore could both, could both scratch, you know, double digit sacks this year for that defense.

I believe same high school for Isaiah likely and, uh, and Josiah Stewart and Mikey Samer still. And, and Louis scene from Georgia, Georgia. Holy crap. That's a bunch of dogs on one team. Yeah. And we're not talking about a high school from like Texas or Georgia, you know, like this is Massachusetts high school football, right? Yeah. Ever high football right yeah ever high school we've got we've got a scouting assistant uh upstairs who played at amherst and we were joking about that upstairs yesterday about that what that school like man you don't usually get four nfl players coming out of the state of massachusetts alone let alone one high school so no that's that was uh that that team was loaded yeah it was crazy and then And the great kind of under the radar story that I had heard

after Josiah transferred was it actually almost went the other way between him and his former high school teammate, Mikey Sainer still, because Sainer still, for those who don't remember, was not always a DB at Michigan. He was a receiver at first and actually looked into transferring as a receiver and almost transferred to Coastal and then decided to switch positions at Michigan. And the rest is history. Wow. That is this.

And Mikey Sanderstraw is one of my favorite guys in last year's draft. I think the commanders took him at like pick 50 somewhere around there. It's a bargain. And he is going to be a stud NFL nickel. I mean, that guy's going to be one of the better slots this year. I think he's ready to go. So that's, that's a cool story. Yeah. I was, when I heard that my jaw just dropped, I was like, can you even imagine he'd done that? I mean, probably would have been good as a receiver at coastal, but I don't know. He wouldn't, he would have the iconic play against Ohio state

a few years ago. So another guy that, that I was intrigued by your inclusion, because this is one you've said you're very excited to see what he does this year. Drew Aller, who is someone we have talked about quite a bit, the Penn State quarterback in this offseason. And, you know, this is, we keep getting asked, like, okay, is this offense going to take off under Andy Kotelnicki, the new OC? Drew Aller seems to have all the tools and he's had games like the Iowa game last year where you're like, all right, I see it. But then you don't see it necessarily against Ohio State and Michigan. So what are you expecting out of him this season? Well, and I think Drew knows that. I haven't spoken to him, but I think it's out there enough, right? I mean, these guys read stuff and families read stuff and I think Drew knows that. I haven't spoken to him, but I think it's out there enough, right?

I mean, these guys read stuff and families read stuff, and I'm sure the coaches have addressed it with him. Certainly the tools are there, and that's why the NFL is excited about him, intrigued by him. But he knows he needs to play well in those big games, and I do. I think the change in offense is going to help him. Again, you look at last year's team, they've got two stud running backs. They had, you know, Tyler Warren and Theo Johnson at tight end. I mean, they've

got a lot of explosive pieces, but they weren't really an explosive offense. So I think you're going to see them attack down the field more, which is going to open some things up and it's going to help Drew. So again, he's the quarterback in this class that is a little bit of a wild card when you talk to NFL scouts in terms of where teams have him because the teams that are banking on the tools in the upside

and our glass half full on them have them at a certain range. And then, you know, teams that are just, you know, kind of a little more cautious waiting on these big game moments and the clutch ability and how does this whole thing come together? They might have them a little lower,

but we're excited to see him this fall yeah it's gonna be a lot of fun because i i wonder how you like with you guys because we always joke about and we've joked about it with joe milton in the in the preseason with the patriots yeah the nfl folks get so enamored of of the traits with a quarterback but it seems like you guys have done a good job in the senior bowl of mixing it up with guys who have lots of traits that the NFL guys want to see and like, but also guys who have produced in college

that may not have those traits. Yeah, I mean, it's just, you try to, at any position, Andy, we're just trying to bring the guys that the NFL teams want to see, honestly. Yeah. I mean, it's just, you try to try it. We're just at any position, Andy, we're just trying to bring the guys that the NFL teams want to see, honestly. Um, you know, so we did, we'd kind of stick to the board. And again, if they, they're going to like different players for different reasons, like you're going to, you're going to like Tyson Bajan for different reasons. You like Joe Milton. Right. Um, and again, part of the reason we brought Tyson was because he was a division two player and he needed this stage that the league needed to see this guy. No offense to the D2 guys, man. They played great football at that level. But the league needed to see him against, you know, kids, guys from the SEC and the Big Ten. You know, they need to see that. So. So, again, we do it for different reasons. But I don't think we ever go and say, say hey let's grab this guy because he's this or this guy because he's that we kind of stick to the board but again the board is dictated by

you know where the league sees these guys too I mean Joe Milton was picked in the sixth round by New England for probably different reasons that um Devin Leary was picked in the sixth round by Baltimore right like they're completely different guys if you're buying into each player for completely different reasons so well here's a guy i'm curious how the league views him because i think we may see some different ways that he gets used this year at georgia dylan bell kind of a swiss army knife guy and you know we talk about how do they replace brock bowers how do they replace lad mcconkie? And they've got Dominic Lovett. They have Oscar Delp. Obviously, they bring in Ben Urosik from Stanford.

But what can Dylan Bell do in this offense? And then what can he be going forward? He can do anything he wants to do, Andy. This guy's really talented. So he was one of the guys when we were trying to identify juniors this off season that we needed to evaluate for the, for the watch list. I mean, sometimes all you can do is look at the numbers, right? And I say it all the time. Our followers probably get sick of me saying it, but like stats lie all the time. I'm sorry.

They, they just do. I mean, there's, you know, people ask, you know, what do you look for in the senior bowl? Like what's the criteria for the guy getting in the game? It's certainly not production. It's talent. Right. We've had guys in the game over the years that like we had. We had Racy McMath from that 2019 LSU team. You know, you're on a team with Jamar Chase and Justin Jefferson and those guys like you're not going to get a ton of targets. So Racy comes here, whatever he had that year, 17 catches, 20 catches, whatever it was. But we knew he's big, fast, and strong and had traits to play in the league,

and he goes in the fourth round of the Tennessee Titans. So we're just looking to find guys with traits. So if you look at Dylan Bell's numbers, it might not reflect it. This dude is really talented now, and you brought up kind of the Swiss Army knife skill set. I mean, you can line him up in the backfield slot outside. I mean, he can threaten you from really any position he fits. You know, he's got quickness to win inside. He's got speed to win out on the perimeter. He's got the strength to line up in the backfield and break tackles. So

you just want to get the ball in this guy's hand. So I would expect a monster year from him. You mentioned all the names, Delp and Urosic. I mean, they have got a lot of playmakers in that offense. To me, that's a really scary team. They're, to me, in the conversation at least as the best offensive line. If you want to throw LSU in there, that's fine. We'll have that argument. But Georgia's, they're at the point where they're just reloading.

They should be a lot of fun to watch on offense. Yeah, I really can't wait. I feel like Dylan Bell, we just didn't pay as much attention to him because, like you said, the numbers aren't huge. When he flashes, it's big time. But they haven't always needed to use him that much they just had other weapons and and we'll find out because obviously trevor 18 comes in so they're they're gonna have a lot of different people they can they can use in that offense but

another guy i'm curious about is somebody we're gonna get to watch him play on saturday in dublin florida state against georgia tech and it's daryl jackson jr who we We're going to get to watch him play on Saturday in Dublin, Florida State against Georgia Tech. And it's Daryl Jackson Jr., who we were talking about a lot on our show this time last year because he transferred from Miami. The NCAA said, hey, you transfer. There was a deadline he missed. I can't remember the exact circumstances of it, but basically or he needed to get a waiver because his second transfer he'd been at maryland first uh and he couldn't play last year and so he's been there in tallahassee working he was working with braden fisk all last year and now braden fisk leaves and all of a sudden here's this guy who would have been playing alongside him now it it's going to be like, hey, you just found another 300-pounder

who can just plug in. Yeah, Daryl's a really fun prospect. So, you know, we actually had an agent hit us up last year around December and kind of laid out the whole story. Like I didn't know much about Daryl's story and the transfers and the NCAA thing. But I think he was thinking about maybe coming out and just taking a shot, playing in the senior bowl and giving it a whirl. You know, good for Florida State. Obviously

we didn't, you know, he didn't come out and we didn't get to that point. But I went back to that 22, 2022 Miami tape and man, this dude doesn't grow on trees. Like that's what we used to refer to guys at in New England when I was there. It was like, these guys don't grow on trees like that's what we used to refer to guys at in new england when i was there it was like these guys don't grow on trees this guy is a mountain of a man he's got you know 35 inch arms and 11 and a half inch hands i mean he's just a he's a huge human being um really hard to move he did play in the bowl game against georgia so there is one game of tape from last year but um yeah man he's again the guy he kind of reminded me of last in last year's draft if we're doing the comparison thing a little bit is is uh big mason from lsu last year so man he reminds me of mason smith um in the in the in mason ended up going in the second round

and daryl's tape from 2022 is probably a little better and a little more consistent than mason smith so again you're talking about a big man that's hard to move, that's explosive, that can push the pocket. So he's going to, you know, and with his high school teammate, Joshua Farmer, next to him. We talked about Michigan reloading up front. I mean, you lose Jared Burse and Braden Fisk, most teams would be in a world of hurt.

And throw Fabian Lovett in there. He was a good player too. And now they're bringing in Daryl Jackson. You got Farmer coming back. And then you got the guys out on the edge. They got two really good edge players. Patrick Payton and Marvin Jones Jr. Yes.

Yes. So, I mean, these guys aren't going to be as deep. Like talking to the Florida State staff, they're certainly not going to be as deep. But these guys are going to play more minutes, so they could have monster numbers by the end of the year. Odell Higgins, one of the best D-line developers in college football. So, yeah, I mean, Odell, like there's a lot that's changed in Tallahassee over the years. I've been going into that school for 20-plus years,

and the one mainstay has been Odell Higgins. So he'll do a great job with that group. I'm fired up to see them play this weekend. So you're talking about they're probably, you're right, probably not as deep on the interior as they were last year. One team that is deeper in the interior defensive line than I've seen them in a long, long time is Tennessee. And, you know, we talk about James Pierce on the edge because he's obviously the headliner, you know, potential top 10 pick, but Omar Norman Lott inside, how good can he be? Well, some,

sometimes the cool part of when I post stuff on social media is the responses I get from either like former senior bowl players, NFL scouts, or other coaches. And I won't name which coach, but a couple of the guys on the Tennessee staff, after we put, I posted some about Norman Lott, you know, hit me up immediately. They were like, yup, you're on the right guy. Really athletic, really athletic. He is a three technique. That's what he is. Like this dude is your, your classic upfield, get off the ball,

win early three techniques, super disruptive. The clip I showed from last year against Virginia was him chasing backside down the line of scrimmage, making a play, laying up, making a play, looking super athletic. So yes, Pierce is getting all the headlines he should. Really cool prospect on the edge, but Norman Lott is a guy you just haven't seen a lot about, heard a lot about. He wasn't on any of the All-SEC teams. I think by the end of the year, he will be on the postseason All-SEC teams after we've played some games.

Yeah, that one I'm really interested in. Obviously, they've got Elijah Simmons. I love watching him sing. We'll see if he can play that way. But they are pretty deep on that d line at tennessee one more i want to ask you about now i'm staying in the trenches and because we've we've had this guy's quarterback on the show recently uh we've had his his star running back on the show recently but ariante ursery is probably the biggest draft prospect at Minnesota.

He's an offensive tackle. And, I mean, he's getting first-round buzz. This is a guy that people love. He's got Max Brosmer coming in from New Hampshire as the QB. Darius Taylor is one of the best young running backs in the country. But what can he do to solid, all this hype he's getting? Again, I think where you get excited with Ursary is that his best football's clearly ahead of him. You know, I think he needs to become more consistent technically in a lot of ways, pad level, you know, pass sets. I mean, there's just

some things that he can clean up by playing more football. I mean, you go back into his high school stuff, which I did over the summer. Again, I don't think there's a real extensive play history there. So you get really excited what this guy could be in the two or three year window, which is how NFL scouts great players. So is he the finished product yet? No. Are the physical tools all there? Absolutely. You just don't see guys his size with the initial quickness, the lateral quickness, the ability to cut off on the backside. Those guys are, again, I said the don't grow on trees thing with Daryl Jackson Jr. Same thing applies here. The 6'6", 330 and can move is not a common trait.

No. No. And we've had some good gopher linemen in the game the last couple years. We had John Michael Schmitz a couple years ago, big old Dan Folele the year before that. So they have put out – they do a great job. PJ and his staff do a great job coaching these guys up, developing those players. So I do expect a big jump.

I think what we as much as much as we liked last year's 23 tape um i can't wait to see 24 stuff daniel falali you just mentioned by the way uh another don't grow on trees guys because if he if he's six nine four hundred the tree's gonna fall over if he's growing on it he he and uh he and dewan jones from ohio state have uh have tipped the scales the last couple years as the biggest senior bowlers on record so yes those were the two very large human beings yeah yeah i don't know that you're gonna get the i think the old linemen are going smaller these days you know not those like look at look at what kaylin deborah is doing in alabama they're

shrinking them down compared to what they were so you may not have the 400 pounders unless it's a D lineman. And there's a couple out there. Our guy at Florida. He's in Watson at Florida. Yeah, your Florida Gator is a big boy there. That's right. That's right. Well, Jim, I appreciate it.

This is so much fun. I cannot wait to go through the season with you and uh and shine a spotlight on some of these guys because it is that again like this is becoming or this this watch list is going to become a research document i'm telling you right now every year when it comes out i'm going to start ranking the you know making that list right i want to see how it correlates because you you nailed it last preseason you were like listen michigan has has the most NFL talent on its roster right now. They are going to be really good. You will see.

It was very prescient. Well, and it's going to be fun, man. Look, college football is here. I mean, you and I, we love this stuff. So it's going to be a really fun fall. I look forward to digging in with you, man. But these next couple weeks are going to be really busy. We're going to have scouts everywhere.

We've got 11 more guys on the staff this year. They're cranked up and ready to go. So look forward to staying connected all fall, man. It's going to be a fun season. All right, time to hit the road. Jim, thank you so much. All right, Andy. See you, man.

Thank you to the great Jim Nagy. That list is very interesting that I've made from the Senior Bowl watch list with just how many players from each team are on the list, where they rank nationally. Now, SEC teams, top five schools. Ole Miss, Georgia, Texas A&M, Alabama, LSU. Ohio State tied with LSU at 18, so they're tied for number five. But the SEC is a lot of the top 15.

I mean, I'll give you an example. South Carolina with 14 is tied with Michigan at 14. Kentucky's got 14. Auburn's got 14. Florida State tops in the ACC with 16. Notre Dame has 16. The Big 12 is pretty interesting on this list. So who would you think in the Big 12

would have the most senior bowl watch list guys? So these are draft eligible guys. Those 30 or older guys that scouts think could make a training camp roster essentially or much better, obviously. Utah leads the Big 12 with 13, which probably isn't a huge surprise. Utah won two Pac-12 titles in the past three seasons. The other ones in the top of the Big 12 right now, Arizona with 11, UCF with 11, Colorado with 11. So that's your top four in the Big 12. Does that change how you feel about the Big 12? Again, it's not scientific. I have said I think K-State's going to win the Big 12.

Kansas State is down on this list. Kansas is at 10. K-State, you got to go a ways down before you get to K-State. There are six players on the watch list that's tied for number 46 in the country. But Avery Johnson's a sophomore he doesn't count toward this that this thing if he's awesome then he elevates everybody but it might be a safer bet looking at this to go with Utah because they are old, because they do have a bunch of players that could go to the NFL right now. It's a new way to look at this. It's a different way of thinking about it. We used to always kind of think about just the input part of it, not the

output part of it. I think the transfer portal slash NIL era has changed how we look at that. So this is a list that I probably will end up referring to quite a bit this year because I just think it's kind of instructional. Now, we'll see if it actually correlates to anything. It's hard to compare year to year because as Jim said, the number of guys on the watch list has increased because of COVID year because of NIL. So it's not exactly an apples to apples comparison this year to last year to the year before that. But I'm curious to see how accurate this is because again, the Texas A&M thing they've got 20 guys

on the senior role watch list. It makes the Vegas thing the win total, the being favored against Notre Dame. It makes that Vegas thing, the win total, the being favored against Notre Dame, it makes that make a lot more sense. But we'll see. But we'll see. Guys, we made it. We did it. There is real football this weekend. Florida State and Georgia Tech from Dublin plus the rest of the week zero action. That's right. SMU, Nevada in Reno. Come on. We did it, everybody. We made it. I will join you and you should join me as the clock hits zero in Dublin. We'll break down Florida State and Georgia Tech because by God, we got real football and we're going to talk about it. So I can see you here again on Monday for a pick show, but come to the On3Sports YouTube channel.

Subscribe to the On3Sports YouTube channel so that you get a push notification when I'm going live. We're going live at the Florida State Georgia Tech, regardless of of the result because it's actual football and it's here. We did it. Everybody talk to you soon.