Andy & Ari On3 - Ari's Top 25 College Football Coaches List is WRONG! But so is Andy's

Episode Date: February 6, 2025

Two faves for just 7 bucks? Gotta Be Wendy’s. You remember Super Value Menu and the Biggie Bag. This is the next generation. Choose any two of these four items for just $7. Spicy chicken sandwichDave’s singleClassic chicken sandwich10-piece nuggs There are 16 different combinations, all delicious. Make a Hot Poultry Power Couple with a spicy chicken sandwich and spicy Buffalo nuggs. Go Double Beef with two quarter-pound Dave’s singles. Create your ultimate duo today in the Wendy’s app. Gotta Be Wendy’s! (Terms apply) Thanks to XFinity for bringing us to New Orleans!When we’re streaming shows live, Xfinity Internet has a 99.9% network reliability, ultra low lag, and reduced buffering so we never miss a moment of our favorite entertainment. You can enjoy that same 99.9 percent reliability whether you’re streaming Sunday’s game or gaming with your friends to get you through the offseason. Game, stream, chat or do it all at once with XFinity. You can also count on fast speeds and reliability, whether you're streaming your favorite show in the house or out at a sports game. With WiFi PowerBoost — only from Xfinity Mobile — you can get fast speeds up to a gig at home or on the go. Enjoy unmatched value while staying connected to the ones you love with the most reliable network and nationwide 5G. Visit XFinity.com to learn more. Busy mornings, late nights, working through lunch—life doesn’t always leave room for a complete, balanced meal. That’s where Huel comes in. This podcast is sponsored by Huel, spelled H-U-E-L, The World’s #1 Complete Nutrition Brand. It’s a complete meal in seconds—just grab, sip, and go. No more skipped meals or unfulfilling snacks. Huel makes it easy with nutrition that fits into your life. And right now, you can try it for FIFTEEN PERCENT off with the code STAPLES15 at HUEL.com. Fuel up the easy way with Huel today! huel.com/STAPLES15 Andy & Ari have arrived in New Orleans and are gearing up for the big show on Friday, but first, Andy & Ari released their Top 25 coaches list. Watch here as Andy & Ari go through their top 25 list. Do you agree with their list? Let us know why or why not! (0:00-1:04) Thank you, Xfinity(1:05-4:25) Intro - Live from New Orleans(4:26-6:45) Discussion on Texas(6:46-9:32) Introducing the Top 25 Head Coaches for Andy & Ari(9:33-23:41) Brian Hartline Promoted as OC, look at Ryan Day(23:42-28:43) Deion Sanders or James Franklin?(28:44-34:39) Ari Combats Andy's Top List - Continuing on Deion(34:40-35:37) Huel(35:38-41:21) Bill Belichick at UNC(41:22-50:15) Lincoln Riley at USC(50:16-55:33) Brian Kelly at LSU(55:34-1:03:06) Dabo Swinney at Clemson(1:03:07-1:07:38) Omissions from the list(1:07:39-1:09:00) Conclusion - See you tomorrow! Subscribe to On3!  ⬇️ youtube.com/on3sports/?sub_confirmati...Welcome to On3 | The best of college football and recruiting https://www.on3.com/ Listen to Andy & Ari On3 on podcast! Spotify 🎧: https://open.spotify.com/show/5AhQ4d2m5TQu5Q2vkwtxjt?si=d9016221aa2a4427 Apple 🍎: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/andy-staples-on3/id1695325427 Follow Andy Staples on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Andy_Staples Follow Andy Staples on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andy_staples Follow Ari Wasserman on Twitter: https://x.com/AriWasserman Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/on3sports Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/on3/ Like/Follow us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/On3Sports/ Hosts: Andy Staples, Ari WassermanProducer: River Bailey 

Ari, how do you feel about beignets? They're electric. It's a donut covered in powdered sugar. Yeah, a lot of powdered sugar. Get ready to smash some because we're headed in New Orleans. Xfinity is bringing us the Big Easy to interview former Minnesota Vikings and Notre Dame star Kyle Rudolph and help everybody get ready for the last football game of the season before the long off season begins. The off season just means more time for me to crush people in the college football video game, Andy. Well, with Xfinity's fast and reliable internet service,

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without the fear of dropping out. Level up your gaming with a network that provides 99.9% reliability. And thanks to Xfinity, we'll be coming to you from New Orleans on Friday. Welcome to the Xfinity area. We're actually already in New Orleans. Beignets have been had by me at least, not by Ari yet. No, that's an unfortunate situation that we're gonna have to change, but we are here in downtown New

Orleans and we were gonna do a shot for this video that was the other way which is the window looking out at some of the buildings downtown. So, I'm just looking squarely at the uh Caesar's uh casino down there and I'm just kinda visualizing my evening. If you yeah, if you're wondering why Ari's twitching a little bit, that's that's why but we are here. We're I do. Well, I mean, I don't know if it's a take. I just don't know why. Is it just the French word for funnel cake? Is that what it

is? It's not funnel cake. It's a density thing. We were actually going on the continuum of this. Kazari was asking like, where is it ranked relative to fry bread, like Navajo fry bread that you would get out in Arizona? And I think for on the density scale, like the lightest is funnel cake, then you're then you have your beignet. And then you have your fry scale, like the lightest is funnel cake. Then you're then you have your been yay. And then you have your fry bread, which the fry bread actually, I think is my favorite of the bunch. And I actually would love to see if we brought

some fry bread in New Orleans, and then dumped a bunch of powdered sugar on it. Does it hold up better to the powdered sugar because do Monda out of business? Well, well, here's my thing. My own popular been yay take. I don't need that much powdered sugar. I need a light dusting. I don't need a mountain of it. Yeah, well, the best part is the fried carbs, in my opinion. Yeah. So like, I'm with you on that. And I mean, they're, they're absolutely delicious. But like, I also too am a funnel cake

person at a fair, like if I'm going to go to a fair or whatever, like, that's like what I would gravitate to, which is interesting, because I'm not much of a sweets guy. Right. But it's also, depending on how you eat it, really not that sweet. It's more savory if you leave most of the powdered sugar off, which I think I'm in your camp on that as well. Also, I'm a little traumatized. So early in my career, I was working for the Tampa Tribune. And I was in New Orleans for work for something.

And I went to cafe Dumont and did a little work while I was at cafe Dumont and I might have ruined my laptop with, with powdered sugar. Yeah, I can imagine. It got into the keyboard and, uh, it never quite worked the same way again. And boy explaining that to the IT department, it was a lot of fun. Yeah. You, uh, are probably one of the very few people who would destroy a laptop with powdered sugar,

but I wouldn't put it past you. I'm happy that you're the person who did that. Yeah, like I have New Orleans takes, I have New Orleans foods takes, but I think we're gonna save that for later. Well, I think, yeah, I think on Friday's show we can talk about that, because I'm gonna take you

for some very good New Orleans food that is not what people think of and is not in the French Quarter. We're gonna go, well, it's somewhere in the warehouse district. It'll be nice, you'll like it. Okay, so I'm excited about that because I'm not a gumbo jambalaya guy.

So you know me, I'm just, just give me a burger and fries. But you know what, I'm excited. You always steer me in the right direction so I can't wait to see what you have in store for later. Ari, we got to argue a little bit today though. Uh, our bosses decided that they were going to test us this week. Yeah. It was, it was annual throw Andy and Ari to the wolves week.

Because, you know, not only do we have to do. Brackets looking into the future, which by the way, I don't know if you saw, mine went up today. Yeah. We agree on the national champion. So I don't know. Yeah. And you were trying to decide if we were gonna agree or not, but I think we've been pretty, you and I have been pretty bullish on Texas.

Oh, steerish on Texas? What's the, stick your head up a bull's ass. I don't know. But like, here's the actual honest truth. I did it without looking at your results. Right. And I didn't remember who your champion was. So as I was doing it, like I tried my best to be as independently thinking as possible, we wound up at the same place. Yeah, my feeling is that Texas has done a good job recruiting, they've done a good

job developing. It's not just about what they get out of the portal. And they've gotten to the final for the last two years. It's probably logical to think maybe your whole knocking on the door thing. Yeah, exactly. And like, listen, here's what put me over the edge. Last week, I did top 10 players returning to college football next year. And I think you could make a legitimate case for four or five players on Texas's roster to be in the top 10 alone.

Like they have a lot of top end talent. I don't know what Ryan Wingo is going to be, but I've got high expectations for him, high expectations for Arch Manning. Obviously you have Ant Hill and Colin Simmons. I mean, they've got a lot of dudes on that team. You know, there's some people to replace on the offensive line, obviously, but they have been a top 10, top seven, top five recruiting outfit for five years now. They didn't go crazy in the portal on the offensive line either.

Because that would be to me a sign of panic, like, oh, we don't have what we need here. We got to go get somebody. But they didn't do that. It seems like they're very comfortable with what they have. And I think Kyle Flood has done a good job on the offensive line. It's like a recruiting class or two recruiting classes consecutively where they sign like seven top 100. Yes.

I mean, like they have a lot of jobs. Yeah. 2022 and 2023 recruiting classes were very good to the audience. Yeah. So yeah, I think that they're going to be in a good position. Obviously we'll see how these rosters stack up, but like, I think that if you're meeting a prediction that Texas will be next year's national champion with an eye rule, then you haven't been paying attention to the sport the last two years and what Sarkeesian has done with that roster. Yeah. I think they've done a good job, which actually brings us to the topic du jour. The other thing that, that our bosses had us do this week is our top 25 coaches list, which I thought was a very interesting exercise because I've always

been at companies where somebody else did that list where I was not the one assigned to do that. You and I were at the same company where other people did that. Yeah. And then, and then before then before that, you know, it was always somebody else. So I never looked at it that way, never tried to break it down that way.

We'll say it's, it is hard. Cause a lot of like, as you get into the twenties and well, actually really the teens and the twenties, there's a lot of really good coaches there between 13 and 35. Right. that you would, like you feel bad that you don't have them on your list. But I think it's a good exercise just to sort of judge where everybody is because, you know, I had a hard time. I don't know about you, how do you weigh what someone has done and has accomplished with what they're doing now. Like Lincoln Riley was a struggle for me

because obviously he was awesome for the first few years of his head coaching career, has not been awesome for the last couple of years. And you wonder, is he gonna get it back? Yeah, also too, like, I don't know how much you thought about this, but it's like, I was a AD in my head for a lot of it. And it's like, who would you just wanna hire?

Well, great. And I have a great question about your list that leads with that question. Well, I'm assuming that you're gonna bury me on a few. And I actually like look back at it and there are, after putting it up and doing it, when you do it alone and you're not like bouncing ideas off of somebody else,

like I think that you are prone to make mistakes. And I don't know if I could just like redo the list again, if I would change it. But like there are guys that I did not have on my list that I thought of and probably should have. And there are guys on the list who made it where if you like yell at me about it, I'm not gonna have a big...

Well, I have a just miss section that I still, there's still guys that I feel bad that I didn't have in the just miss section. Yeah, and like that's the thing too. And the reality of this exercise too is, for the most part, I think that most people who do what we do would have some variation of the same top 10. Right? I have one weird one of my top 10. We'll get to

that. Yeah, assuming. But there's no possible way like don't look at Twitter. When you're all it is, is everybody mad at the same time, right? There's nobody that's like, Hey, great list. Yeah, they're not even because even the ones who like where you put their coach probably don't like exactly where you put their coach. They want to if you put Kirby Smart and Ryan Day number one and two, those fan bases are accustomed to that. Right. They don't even react to it.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like yeah. Oh, Kirby Smart's number one. Like there's no interaction with that. So, all it is is. Spoiler alert. Kirby Smart number one in both our lists. Uh let's let's actually get into this with a little bit of news involving number two on both of our lists. So on Wednesday, Ohio State is promoting Brian Hartline, the receivers coach, probably the best receivers coach in America, promoting to offensive coordinator. Also, according to our own Pete Nacos at On3, the plan is to hire Virginia Tech offensive coordinator Tyler Bowen as the offensive line coach slash run game coordinator, which would fill

the roles that were required. Because remember Justin Fry, the old line coach left for the Arizona Cardinals, Chip Kelly, the OC left for the Las Vegas Raiders. So heartline becomes the OC. Bowen becomes the run game coordinator slash O-line coach. Now, what do we think this is? Do we think this is Ryan Day saying, Hey, Brian heartline, it's time to give you more responsibility. I would like you to call the offense.

Do you think this is Ryan Day taking back play calling duties and saying, here's this nice title? Or do you think it's, hey, we're going to give Brian Heartline a shot. And oh, by the way, we've also hired somebody who is an experienced play caller in case we need that. I think that I would be stunned if Ryan Day went back to calling plays. Like I think this is you've put in your time, you've had your results, you've recruited your ass off, you've had the best position group in

America for five years now, now's your time to call plays. Now, I do have my questions about play calling and how good somebody in his position can be coming out of the gate. There's probably going to be growing pains. He's going to have to learn that. He's never done it. coming out of the gate, there's probably going to be growing pains. He's going to have to learn that. He's never done it. But like if there's any assistant in America that has worked somewhere and deserves a promotion, like I feel like Ohio State was probably in a position where they're like, we have to give him a shot because we can't lose him. And like that's a good place to be. So like, I don't know. It would be insane to me if Ryan Day is like, you know what, I'm going to do this again. It's like you gave it up and won a national title. I think that's

probably a pretty good indication that whatever you did last year was working. Well, but also if things really go wrong, he can just pick it up and do it. We know he can call that offense and call it effectively. So if, if Ryan Day is, is worried or if it just doesn't work, there's a solution there. But I think you're right. Ryan Day giving up the play calling probably made him a better CEO, better head coach in general, which we have him number two on this list. We would not have had him number two on the list this time last year. And I wonder now that he's won the national.

What would he have been last year? He would have been in the top five, but we would have held the Michigan thing over him. I think we would have dinged him more for the Michigan thing then Than we do now because now he's won the national title like Kirby smart has an Alabama thing But we're okay with that Ryan day has a Michigan thing, but he's won the national title So it doesn't matter as much. Yeah, I didn't really even consider the Michigan thing anymore Oh, so today if they if they wouldn't won the national title He might not have even been my top ten because of the Michigan thing

But you get enough equity in winning the national title or that doesn't especially the way they won the national title. Yeah. In the path that they took because like the number one thing to that you want to see and I think that the Ohio State Michigan thing is a major cause of concern for people in Columbus. But the number one national talking point wasn't that he can't be Michigan. It was that he couldn't win big games. So for him to go out and win those four in a row in the postseason kind of puts to bed any of that. Like that's the thing too, like as we get down to James Franklin and some of the other guys like Lane Kiffin, like have they addressed the things that people neg them for? And I had a hard time with that.

So my balance, Andy, with Ryan Day was pretty simple. It's like, there are only, what, how many active coaches are there with national titles now? Was it like four, I think? Three? We can make the list. Ryan Day, Kirby Smart, Dabo Sweeney. It's the top three on my list.

Yeah, that's it, right? Yeah. So, you know, I- Because Mac's not coaching anymore. And like, that's the thing too. It's like, I didn't just go, did you win a national title? Put me in the top three. Like, that's not how anymore. And that's the thing too, it's like, I didn't just go, did you win a national title, put me in the top three.

That's not how I did my list. But also to weighting it based on what you've done and what you're doing. Right. It's very, very. How you've adjusted to today's game and we'll talk about Dabo in a little bit. And then what about also what you've done as a coordinator?

I don't know if that ever played a factor for you, but I was like, Brenton Venables made my list and I'm assuming that's who you're gonna come after me for. No. Everybody's upset about Brent Venables being on the list but like Brent Venables is on my list because I think you could make the case that he's every bit as like part of the international titles than that as Dabo. Let's stick to Ryan Day because. All right yeah let's stick to Ryan Day. Because I think what you said just a minute ago was really interesting and I hadn't thought about it that way. That the knock on Ryan Day was about the Michigan thing, yes, but was more about him winning

big games. Because the way the schedule used to work, the Michigan game and the Penn State game were the big games. And then there might have been one more as you got to the playoff. And like the Peach Bowl, that was a big game that they barely lost if they'd won that game they probably would have had he probably had two national titles now so they had to win four big games in a row like they did not get any easy draw at all in this playoff it was the hardest possible

path and they won four in a row and I think the way they won this one completely changes our view of Rhyme Day. Yeah well the thing too is like the Michigan in the big game thing like you said were the same thing. Well the thing that you said that was interesting Andy about the Ohio State Michigan thing was that Ohio State playing Michigan was the big game. Right. Right like if you lose the Michigan game like Ohio State. They were playing two game seasons because of the way the the big tens together worked. Right, like if you lose the Michigan game, like Ohio State fans are freaking out. They were playing two game seasons because of the way the big 10s worked. And like Ohio State's game against Michigan last year,

not this past year, the year before, when the Connor Stallion stuff was happening and Sharon Moore was coaching, was one of the, what, three most hyped Ohio State Michigan games ever. Like when you think about all of the stuff that- And one of the most embarrassing for the losers. So like, those two were kind of the same, but like you do look back at the 2019 fiesta bowl. I think that was one of Ohio State's best teams and programming history and they lost to Clemson. Right.

To another guy that's very high on our list. Yeah. Yeah. So like, you know, they had been coming up short pretty consistently in their biggest games losing to Oregon twice. So for them to actually get that burden off their shoulders and do what they did in the playoff I think changes your entire brain chemistry. And I've had the theory too. My theory with Ryan Day is that because he went on this run, I don't think he's going to be as tight for the Michigan game moving forward. Now that he has the equity, I don't think he has to crap his pants anymore. It's like they're going to go into it. Michigan shouldn't be. Now that he has the equity, like I don't think he has to crap his pants anymore. Like it's like they're gonna go into it. They're not, Michigan isn't anything that they didn't just beat or conquer, you know? And you know, Michigan's gonna be very good next year and there's a, there's probably a likelihood or you know, at least a coin flip, but they do go to Ann Arbor next year and lose again. But that might just be because Michigan's awesome again.

So like, I don't know, National championships right a lot of wrongs, winning rights, a lot of wrongs. And like I think that the conversation about Ryan Day and whether he was fit to be Ohio State's coach six weeks ago or two months ago were rational and warranted. I really do. I don't like look back at it and go, well, look, he won the national title. If you were questioning him, you're an asshole. Like that's not true. Like I think at the time with the information that we had,

with the most embarrassing loss in Ohio State history, potentially, one of the top five most embarrassing losses, the playoff hadn't happened yet. That's all the information you had. But now, to his credit, flipped the narrative. has run that gauntlet before. And it may be that the national champ in this system does that every year, like for whatever reason that the team with the hardest path goes through, but I doubt that's what's going to happen. I imagine some of the teams that get a little bit easier path might go through and win. This just so happened in the first year of this, the team with the absolute most difficult path went through it and actually went through it in a pretty dominant fashion. I think the there's a lot of like galaxy

brain mental gymnastics. You can do with this Andy, but like the Ohio State that showed up in the playoff is the Ohio State that I anticipated all year. You know how I've been talking about them. They're a super team and all this stuff and because they were so underwhelming during the regular season and never hit that peak, it almost turned their postseason run into some sort of surprise. But if that Ohio State team would have just existed, which would have completely eradicated any discussion about whether or not he's fit to be their coach to begin with, they would have been eight point favorites in every game they played and just beat the crap out

of everybody they played. So it's like, I think the perception of what they did now as a result of coming up short against Michigan and playing like crap against Nebraska and losing to Oregon early in the year looks more remarkable than it probably actually was. And that's what makes him to me, like doing this list four years ago was so different because I would just go look at what your recruiting results were. Right. And it's not like that anymore. But Ryan Day without question, unequivocally is one of the three best roster builders in America. Well, and I think, I wrote about this at the beginning of the season, and I'm curious to see how this plays out because I said Ryan Day strikes me as the kind of person who will be able to retain better rosters, not just because of Ohio State's finances,

because everybody has money at the top, but because of who he is and because of Ohio State's finances, because everybody has money at the top, but because of who he is and because of the way he coaches, he's a pretty normal dude. He even looks normal in all these late night television appearances he's making. But you saw Jack Sawyer in the way he talked about him. You saw Will Howard, you saw Donovan Jackson, the way those guys talked about Ryan Day. They love him. They absolutely love. This is not a case like he doesn't rule by fear, which that worked before because you had to sit out a year if you transferred. Like you can't do that anymore. Now, when you have players, the quality of Ohio

States players, they can just go somewhere else, play right away, make a ton of money. Like, you better give them a reason to stay. And I think Ryan Day is actually built for that generation, more so than some of the dominant coaches of the past. Yeah, well, also, too, like, if you look at where Ohio State is, you know, as a program, they are as equipped, if not more equipped than every other team in college football to continue sustained success. So it's like, they're gonna lose a lot of guys this year and they lost some coaches. They're gonna maybe have some growing pains next year, but when it comes to NIL and the way that they've recruited,

you know, out of high school, like they are sustained, they are built for sustained success. Now comes the hard part, the part that Nick Saban made look easy and kind of spoiled it for everybody else. When you do have both your coordinators leave after a national title run, like Saban did that and kept replacing people and kept figuring out how to win national titles.

That's not that easy. Like Kirby Smart lost Dan Lanning. He made Glenn Schuman the defensive coordinator. They won another national title. That part's pretty hard. But you know what's nuts? If Ohio State would have beaten Georgia, and I know the if game a few years ago,

or if Ohio State wins another national title in the next two years. Day's the number one on the list. You might have a new king of the sport, which in Kirby Smart 12 months ago was the unequivocal number one. I still think he is. Yeah, I think he's the number one.

But Day is a Michigan win away and a deep playoff run next year away from potentially being number one on this list. So, and by the way, three months ago, I might've had him at like 14. Okay, so like that, but like also it's a testament to how much winning cures things. Here's another theory that I have about Ryan Day and then as it pertains to

the rest of the list too. Right. Okay. We work it on three. We do. Our website does a very good job, especially Pete Nacos in helping people understand NIL and the transfer pool. Yes. And it's a very essential piece to building a roster. I think it has gotten a lot of attention and rightfully so, and it should continue to get attention. But I think that part of that attention has also made people forget how important high school recruiting is.

It's still the most important thing. And I really think that this next year and this is in my playoff bracket, when we get to it, you're going to see a lot of the teams that I have Making it and going deep into this tournament our teams that recruit really well in high school I was I think we're gonna have a regression back to to I don't rosters are built the best I don't think we ever had a progression. I think it's still always two years ago was a progression I I guess so that's there were certain teams like Michigan State when Mel Tucker had

Kenneth Walker Kenneth Walker like that like there were certain players That were transcendent at their new places There were certain teams but those teams didn't win at all Like the teams that were in the mix to win it all were always the ones because even Michigan last year They had some important pieces that they brought in but the best players on their team were all right Oh, they developed right they plugged in about three key transfers. They had a left tackle, a center, and an edge rusher. Everybody else were guys that they brought in from high school.

I do wonder if we go into the future five, six, seven years from now and we look back at the next six champions, if they're all going to be the same teams that are recruiting well. And the thing that I think is interesting is that teams go up and down in the rankings, but like there isn't that much difference in the recruiting ranking. Well, I think there's room for a Michigan that wasn't recruiting at a top five

every year kind of level. But I also think that was a fallacy because all of Michigan's best players on that team were five star prospects. Like they didn't recruit the same, they didn't recruit- Mason Graham and Kenneth Grant were not. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I mean like Will Will Johnson and Donovan Edwards, JJ McCarty.

Yeah, yeah. There are a lot of really good players. They did a good job of doing a balance of it. But I would have said three years ago to Andy that that that roster was impossible. I think do I think that opens it up for say South Carolina, which does Yeah, the top in talent, the Dylan Stewart's, the Josiah Washington's and also recruits well, evaluates well and develops. So it's going to be, it's going to be fun to watch, but Ryan Day, I think is good at, is good at all of this stuff. And that's why we have him at number two. Kirby Smart is probably the best at all of

this stuff. And that's why he's at number one. Let us, let us move down the list. I want to, I want to go in your top 10. Well, I'll just go to the guy. I'm going to do it. We're on YouTube. I didn't know, I didn't know what to do. So you put Deion Sanders number seven. Now I didn't leave Deion Sanders off my list. I put him at number 21 and I, and I had, I had what I thought were very good reasons for him to be at 21 and not higher and not lower. My thing with Dion is the first year at Colorado was not very good, but he learned from that, grew, changed, but also they didn't win the league despite having the two best players in the league. And so that's a bit of a problem,

but I still suspect they will have the most top-end talent in the Big 12. And you can say, well, okay, that makes it easier for Deion. No, no, that's the superpower. That's what we just got through talking about with Ryan Day and Kirby Smart, about how they get top- in talent and put it together. Dion Sanders is more capable of getting top in talent than any other coach in the big 12.

So I suspect he'll move up my list. I think you have him a little high and I want to compare him to another person on the list, because this is another one you got crushed for, for where you put it. You have James Franklin at number 15 Ari. another one you got crushed for where you put it. You have James Franklin at number 15. Ari, you're the AD of a program that has lots of money that's in the Big Ten or the SEC that on the right year can compete for a national title, that recruits well, recruits in the top 10 year after year, or recruits top 15 year after year,

two candidates are willing to take your job, James Franklin or Deion Sanders, who you're hiring? You texted me this question, and it wasn't as specific, but you said who are you hiring, Deion or James? And I responded with what I still think is my answer, it just depends on where. Okay. Like I think that James Franklin would- Georgia.

James Franklin, Auburn, James Franklin. Michigan, James Franklin. Ohio State, James Franklin. Penn State, obviously James Franklin. Yeah, I mean, I probably, I guess. The problem that I have with James Franklin- James Franklin, by the way, if we want to go the other way, if we want to go to schools that don't traditionally win,

because Deion did a really good job this year. They won nine games. James Franklin won nine games in two different years at Vanderbilt. Yeah. Yeah. The problem I have with James Franklin, and maybe this is just recency bias, is that he has been a coach who has routinely lost every important game that

his team has played for like seven years. Like it's a long time like it's not like okay you're giving him crap because he they haven't gotten over the hump the last few like this is like what was the stat like he's like two and twenty against top ten opponents or something like it is insane. So the the same problem we had with Ryan Day until just Except Ryan Day's problem didn't span almost a decade. So like that like there's a you know at a certain point you got to do it right, um and like I guess like if you if you think that James Franklin is a better coach Than deon sanders like I have a hard time like in this scenario being like,

oh, you're unequivocally wrong. Um, the thing that I will say is that I think that Deion Sanders possesses the ability to do something that not a lot of other people can do. I agree. And I just don't think he's a better coach than James Franklin right now. I think Deion Sanders will move up my list because again, he is getting Franklin probably viewed as a disappointment by a large portion of his fans yeah cuz the jobs really hard yeah

I mean I Dion won less games than Jane Franklin this year it's like on one hand you think Penn State fans would be excited about that see I think that like that well no but it's a completely different. Is it completely different place and circumstance? Okay, put James Franklin at Colorado. Would James Franklin have Colorado winning? Year two was on the cusp of making the playoff. Would. Yeah, because of the system. Would James Franklin in this system have Colorado in competing for the big 12?

Of course he would. Here's the here's the long and short of it. I believe that Deion Sanders possesses an ability that very few other coaches possess. Very few. I agree with you. And that's the reason. And on top of that, I think that Deion Sanders also did an incredible job learning from mistakes, hiring coordinators, getting players to buy in. The coaching aspect of it,

I thought was very, because I thought that Colorado was very well coached. And that's why he's on the list for me, and not on the list. And if you think that I went too high, I'm not gonna be like, oh God, you're an idiot for thinking that way. Yeah, you went way too high.

He belongs on the list, because of the growth from year one to year two at Colorado, because of his ability to get elite talent to Colorado, those are really good things. I just thought, this is wild, you have him eight spots ahead of James Franklin. Yeah, but I also too wonder too, if you did the same test with your list

that you did with mine. Sure, let's do it, go for it. Is every single of the 20, because you had Deanna 21. I did. Is every single coach ahead of him and unequivocal Yes, I'm hiring him at Georgia over Dion. Is that how you did your list? No, not this. No, no, not necessarily. Why did you do that to me? Because it's more fun to

do it to you. Oh, okay. Because like, because I'd like to hire Lincoln Riley or Dion right now. Dion,. Because it's more fun when I win. No, do you see what I'm saying? No, I do. Look, you can't like this. Like, James Franklin has been at a high pressure job. He has created a program that wins 10 games every single year, no matter what. So from a safety standpoint, putting him into Georgia is a much more less volatile situation.

Most of these guys I would because they have won. Well, don't look at the top 10. Look the no I'm looking at like Kyle Whittingham Matt Campbell Lance Lipe. You hire Sharon more over him right now. Yes. Okay. Yes. Before the Ohio State game no but Campbell at Georgia over him.

Yes. I'd hire Matt Campbell anywhere. Kenny Dillingham that Georgia over Dion yes Kenny Dillingham it sounds like Kenny Dillingham won the league that Deon coaches in. Now I'm rethinking where I put Lincoln Riley. This is more me rethinking where I put Lincoln Riley than where I put Deon. Because here's the thing too, and it might be the case, but if we go through your top 25 list, is every single person that's ranked behind coaches, somebody you would not hire over coaches that are ranked ahead of them? Like, is it only, is that what you're... Like you say, it's almost always job dependent, but that is basically where you're at. I mean, that's you've got to rank them somehow. Yeah, that's like if you're going to go hire a coach for a middle tier big 10 or SEC team that has a national championship ceiling, are you going to hire Brian Kelly or are you going to hire Sharon Moore? Yeah, like even though

Brian Kelly has a longer pathway of being successful, he might not be the best. I mean, right now I probably hire Brian Kelly. So I well, let's would you hire Brett Bielema at Georgia or Deion Sanders? Deion Sanders, I want elite talent. And Brett Bielema already went to the SEC. We've seen Brett Bielema in the SEC, yeah. Brett Bielema has eight spots ahead of him. So like, that's not the right way to look at it.

That's true. I guess if we're talking. I guess it's giving the man flowers for turning around an absolute dumpster fire program that like was hopeless. And I thought putting him on the list does that. I didn't, yeah. I didn't know if you had to put him in the top 10

to do that. So the thing that I do regret, and it's not, you're not gonna get me in like a gotcha moment, but like, would I hire Deon at Bama over DeBoer or Hypal or something? Probably, probably not. Like, you know, but that doesn't mean but I still think that Deon Sanders has done a better job at Colorado than Kailin

here in Alabama here's the thing because Deon is younger in his coaching career than almost all of these people if he shows the same kind of growth this year that he showed last year then you might say yes to that and if Colorado stays this year because they don't have Travis Hunter and Chidor Sanders anymore, then I'll look like it. Then you'll have it. No, but like it's, you'll have your answer, but yeah, I suspect he's going to be okay. I don't know that they're going to be dominant, but I think they still are, are

capable of getting talent that the rest of the big 12 might not be able to get. In some spots. And I think that's gonna help him. And he's without question, and like on your list, Kenny Dillingham's a spot ahead of him. Right, cause he won the league that Deion coaches him. Deion Sanders probably has a better long-term ability

to get the best players to come to his school in that. But I'll tell you exactly why I had Kenny Dillingham ahead of him. Okay. Kenny Dillingham inherited just as big of a dumpster fire as Dion did. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they were in trouble.

Yeah. The Herm Edwards, the Antonio Pierce stuff, like everybody was leaving. It was a, an absolute mess. Well, here's the thing with Kenny and you know, yeah, I'm a Kenny guy. Kenny is perfect for ASU. He was like born to be ASU's coach. I think that works in a lot of places though. What he does works in a lot of places.

He happens to be home, but what he does would work in a lot of places. Yeah. But that's, okay, I don't want to shortchange Dion there. What Dion does works everywhere. The question that we don't have, or the answer that we don't have. Yeah, what Deion does works everywhere because if you put Deion at Kansas, he'll get better players than Kansas can usually get. The question I have is does Deion work at Georgia? I think so. Then why would you hire anyone else over him? Because

he's got money to hire whatever assistance he wants at that point. And you want to talk about acquiring talent? Why would you hire Chris Climent over him at Georgia from that standpoint? Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you talked me into it. But I also feel like Deion rescuing a dumpster fire is a hell of a lot different than going to a place that wants to win a national title every year. Right, because improvement, while nice, isn't good. It goes back to the James Franklin thing. And it also goes back to... James Franklin won how many games this year and people were still

pissed at him? I don't know if people were pissed at him this year, were they? I think I think they were pissed about the way that the Orange Bowl ended. Yeah. But yes, he was one game from the national title game and people were still pissed. So yeah, but Deion Sanders is an interesting like because there are two people on my list Mm-hmm that are very hard to rank. I ranked Deion pretty high and I ranked Bill Belichick somewhere and We do need to talk about Bill Belichick, but first I wanna talk about Huel. This is the Huel Black Edition. 35 grams of protein, 27 vitamins and minerals, seven grams of fiber.

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Huel.com, H-U-E-L.com. Use the code, STAPLES15 to get 15% off your first order. Let us talk about Bill Belichick because I struggled with this one and eventually I think I punted. I mean I know I punted. I didn't put him on my list. You had him at number 21 on your list. Is that right? Yeah. Okay. So I just, I didn't know where to put him because I've never seen him coach college football before. And coaching the NFL and while college football is coming closer to the NFL, coaching the NFL and while college football is coming closer to the NFL, coaching the NFL and coaching college football are two different things. And yes, he's the best coach ever in the NFL and possibly the best football coach ever, like the best coach in the history of the sport. Does that mean he's going to be an effective college football coach? I don't know yet. Yeah, I mean, you not putting him on the list is just like, okay, well, we haven't seen

him yet. That's not applicable as opposed to a I don't think he belongs. It's called the bitch way out. Yeah, okay. That's fine. Yeah. I mean, what you did is probably the right thing. Because me putting him on that list took a spot away from somebody that probably should have been on it. That makes people mad. That said,

Bill freaking Belichick. I think he can make the case that he's the greatest football coaches ever walked the planet. Yes. So like if that's the case. Well, I wrote about this in my intro to my top 25. Cause you know, when Charlie Weiss got to Notre Dame, he talked about having the decided schematic advantage

and everybody made fun of him. Like Bill Belichick gave them the decided schematic advantage that got Charlie Weiss the Notre Dame job. Like it was because of Bill Belichick. It's like if anything that like if you here's the thing. Because like Bruce Feldman always has like James Franklin in his top five every year because he always goes back to the Vanderbilt thing, right? I'm still very impressed by the Vanderbilt thing too, if you hadn't noticed.

If you're going to give him equity, James Franklin for Vanderbilt thing, right? I'm still very impressed by the Vanderbilt thing too, if you hadn't noticed. But if you're gonna give him equity, James Franklin for Vanderbilt, which happened what, 12 years ago? It was a long time ago, yeah. Where does six Super Bowls win? Like does that like count? Yeah, I know. I mean like, I don't know, like,

so like to me it's like, I put him in the 20s because I haven't seen him coach yet, but it felt bizarre that a sixth Super Bowl winning champion was not on the list. But then, and that's the other thing, like you've got him in the 20s. Like you got him below the last. You either put him number one or not at all.

I love Lance Lightpole, but I'm sure Lance Lightpole looked at that list as like, oh, I am above Bill Balachek. Yeah. Well, like here's the way I hide behind that is just because you're a great football coach doesn't mean you're a great college coach. I think Lance Lightpole have as many national titles. Did he win five or six in Wisconsin whitewater? behind that is just because you're a great football coach doesn't mean you're a great college coach.

I think this line's light bulb have as many national titles. Did he win five or six in Wisconsin white water? I think he won five. I think he won five. Okay. But it is tough. It really is. It's kind of funny to think though.

It's like if you either put him number one or not on the list at all, that's 21. But like the reason why I do it is respect for the past, cautiously optimistic about the future, but if you're going to give people equity for previous accomplishments, you can't completely ignore what he's done. So that's where I agree. So, and I don't know what he's going to be. We talked about this a little bit. Hire him at Georgia over any, like you want to do the Georgia test with Bill Bell? I don't know about his town acquisition. Yeah. That's it. And now he'll tell you and Michael Lombardi, his general manager will,

will tell you, cause I've heard Lombardi talk about this on McAfee show. They feel like the college game is pushed so much closer to what the NFL is in terms of talent acquisition that you do not have to be the Kirby smart level of recruiter to get that level of player anymore. If you're at a place that has the resources, I don't know if that's true or not. We're gonna find that out. We're gonna find that out as Belichick works, as some of these other schools

that are pouring resources in to try to even the playing field with the Georges and the Ohio States. We are going to find that out, how much that matters, and how much the recruiting people out of high school and being able to get the top end high school talent still matters. Yeah. You know what I think like the most likely outcome is that he just like goes eight

and four, like five years in a row or if he's there that long and then that's it. Like, I mean, like, cause it's like that, if you go eight and four, nine and three for four or five years there, I think that's probably a sign that you've done a pretty good job, but then at the same time too It's just like winning a national title is just really really hard and he's not Equipped to do the college thing like I don't well in North Carolina does not have the resources that The schools that expect to win national titles we do talk a lot about like discount right? Like although look at this look at this schedule Ari look at this schedule. I don't know me actually when I was doing my When I was doing my playoff bracket like gave it thought about it. Yeah

They play Clemson, but I think people would have thought I was trolling they played do they play Duke think I'm trolling They've struggled with NC State of late. So all of these things Here's the problem with the schedule if they lose to Clemson They've got no equity right and what if what if yeah, because we don't know what TCU is going to be. You know, TCU kind of fell off the map after going to the national title game a few years ago, but they actually finished the season strong this year. Sonny Dyches is not suddenly a terrible coach. If he goes in and beats Belichick week one, like...

That's going to be a hell of a game. It'll be fun to watch. Yeah. So that's my Bill Belichick thing. But it's like, if you wanna go drop Deion 10 spots, whatever, that's fine. Maybe I overdid it, but I just thought that the job that he has done in a,

and like that's the other thing too. There are good seasons and there's construction. Like those are two different things. And like I think that the construction, although I do have some some criticisms for him, as you've heard 800 times, I don't think that you could make a case that he hasn't constructed that program in a way that makes them completely different than they were before, which is a was a unique talent. Yeah. So well, let's let's talk about another person on this list who I struggled with and I think you probably did too

and it is a matter of balancing the past with the present and that's Lincoln Riley because Lincoln Riley would have been in a top five on both of our lists the year. He took the usc job Oh, yeah, maybe number three or something. Well, no Saban would have been on that list too, right? But um, and Harbaugh was there, was still coaching. But Lincoln Riley has made a pretty precipitous fall and he's trying to do some stuff now. They've hired the GM away from Notre Dame. They hired another front office type person away from Wisconsin.

They're trying to make moves now to help their talent acquisition. And I think that it actually gets back to what we've talked about is that Lincoln Riley has never been good enough at the talent acquisition at a high school piece. Yeah. And like part of that too was like bizarre because he was at a place that was near the most talent dense state in the entire country that has a great footing like Oklahoma and Texas is like, right, basically an in state thing. And they've done a pretty good job. But like, the reason why Lincoln Riley was on my list to begin with is the

same he's on your list. The big 12 championships and the Heisman winners happened. Yeah, okay. Like, and the thing is, like, you were you felt like you were guaranteed that he would have a dominant quarterback every single year. Yeah, but what USC is in relation to what I thought it was gonna be is it's not even, it's not even in the same galaxy of what I thought it was gonna be.

And it goes back to, and he bristles at these questions, but the actions tell a different story. Like as soon as it became clear, Oklahoma's going to the SEC, he wanted out. He didn't want any part of having to deal with with Alabama and Georgia and Texas. Well, Texas was he was going to deal with a conspiracy theory. That is not a conspiracy theory. It is his actions on the recruiting trail told you he was not willing to swim in that shark tank.

Is it possible that he just wanted to swim in the Pacific Ocean? It's possible, but the thing is, he goes to the Big Ten, which I'm assuming USC informed him that they were moving or thinking about moving when he took the job. But the Big Ten's just as much of a shark tank now. And again, he's never shown that he's capable of getting the kind of top-end talent, especially the long line of scrimmage, that you have to have to compete for national titles. Now, maybe that will be different

with this revamped personnel staff. But until we see it, I don't believe it. Well, here's the other problem too, is that what year is he going into? Is this year four now at USC? This is year four at USC. They're not going to be that good this year. So you're going to be going into year five, like you don't, they're not going to

the playoff this year. Okay. We don't think, I mean, who knows? Yeah, you never know. My thought process is that they're not going. Well, right there. They're returning offensive lineman is now starting at Oregon. So, then you're going to be going into year five, which is a half a decade of like, who's the quarterback and I mean, I don't know, maybe Longstreet's going to come in and just be an

amazing all-world player. Yeah. It's very hard to predict the future but if you go to year five, having not won anything, that's a long time, Andy, especially in this new world. So respect for the Heismans for sure. And the big 12 titles. If they lose four or five games this year though, and we do this list again next year, he's not going to be on it.

He's not going to be on it. He's not gonna be on it. Yeah, so that's the thing. It becomes the Bill Parcell thing after a while. You are what your record says you are. And the thing with Lincoln Riley is he came on like gangbusters and the Oklahoma fans will say, oh, Bob Stoops set him up. It's not all because of Bob Stoops.

Like Lincoln Riley had it rolling in Oklahoma. Even in the most sturdy scenarios, how many years do you think a coach can set up the incumbent for? Two at the most. Right? I mean, like four is a long, he won four in a row. Yeah, he did.

And they were good the last year. They weren't good enough to win the title, but they were still good that last year in Oklahoma. Jaylen Hurts was the Heisman finalist too, wasn't he? A runner-up? Yeah, they won the league that year. So I mean like he was the architect of bringing in some pretty important players that I mean like I don't...

Oklahoma fans... Yeah, he recruited Caleb Williams to Oklahoma and then to USC. So again, it's not... I'm not completely destroying his recruiting because he was great at recruiting quarterback, but you got to recruit the big guys better. Like I'm completely out on him now. I know you are. And I'm not, it's funny because I've been very critical all along, but I'm the one who won't give up on him yet because he's 41 years old like he's too smart I just I want to I don't want to believe that he's not gonna ever figure it out

I just kind of feel like I was with you on that But I feel like enough time has passed at USC or it's like it should have been fixed already Yeah, and I know that I know that you can be like, oh well, they got a better defense this past year But it's like we're going to need right. It's an incremental improvement I you you need to see him bring in classes like Ryan Day brings in. Was USC better this year than they were the year before? They were, right? A little bit better? It's hard to say. Their defense was better, but the team overall wasn't. Yeah, they lost a lot of close games. The USC team the year before, now the USC team the year

before played in the Pac-12, but the Pac-12, the last year of the Pac-12, was actually a pretty tough league. Yeah, they also had Caleb. Yeah, and they had Caleb Williams. But like, I feel like their team has gotten incrementally worse. Yes, I think that's a fair statement. Like, his first USC team was his best one, second was the second best, third was the third best. It's not a good trend line. And the second one was bad because of its defense, but it still had a chance in every game it was in because it had one of the best players. So, you know, the thing too is like, if USC comes into this year, it doesn't have a dynamic quarterback, it's like, well,

if you're not even going to do the thing that you're promised to do, which is to deliver an amazing quarterback and exciting offense, that's going to put up points against everybody, then what do you what do you have left? Right? Because you're not a defensive coach, you're not Mario Cristobal, another player or coach, I have a mile list pretty high, in terms of building the trenches.

That's the thing too, it's like Antonio Morales said this, he's the athletic USC writer, and I think it's true, it's like what is USC's identity? And what are they supposed to be? Who are they supposed to be? Like you hired Lincoln Riley to win national titles, you didn't hire Lincoln Riley to be okay. And it's like, this is going to sound so shitty, and I'm sorry, but like, why?

Like, is it okay that Miller Boss was our quarterback in year three? Like, is that okay? It would have been okay if he'd have been good. He wasn't. Right, so that's on Lincoln Riley. And you would think that if you have two years to figure that out, you know, because you knew when Caleb was leaving. Yeah. I know it's it is a the fact that he had two full years there to know who the replacement was and they didn't bring anyone in. It's just frustrating to me Ari, because I know he knows what he's doing. And I think he knows what the problems are. But he's-

Is it possible that he got so fixated on fixing the defense that he didn't, that he lacks a little bit on the offensive side? It's not that, because it's defense and offense. They're not good at recruiting top end talent in the trenches. They're not good at it. Like, and they say, well, we got the, now we got the best O-line and D top end talent in the trenches. They're not good at it. And then they say, well, now we got the best O-line and D-line coach in the country.

Well, you don't because those guys coach at places where they have good offensive and defensive lines. But you also don't get the level of talent required to have the best offensive and defensive lines in the country. Here's the other thing too. There's no offensive linemen in California. Right. Too many skinny people, too many salad, too many, too many longboarding down the beach, too many salads.

Damn it. Too many trips to Arawan. So I don't know. It's it's it's not the easiest thing in the world. Like if it were so easy, everybody would do it. But the man gets paid 11 million dollars. So he should do it. He should be in Texas and Georgia. And like, I also like give him crap for going to Georgia.

It's like, oh, you can keep getting all these five star commitments out of the state of Georgia. And you know they're gonna leave. You know they're not gonna actually get to Georgia at the end of the year. Yeah. So, but like you have to go. Well, maybe get them committed closer

to the time they actually signed. Maybe like going to Ohio and Pennsylvania. Change your timing on that. Indiana, like those, the Rust Belt and get some real dogs, you know, to come in there. I don't know. I don't know what the, but like I, the thing is, I don't know what USC is right now.

So, and he's on the, and he's still on the list because he's living off of the past and like there's nothing exciting about the president. So one more coach and you and I differed quite a bit on this guy. I had him at number eight, you had him at number 16. It's Brian Kelly. And I think we're all think we're actually kind of in the same place on him,

even though we had him in different places on our list, where Brian Kelly is a good coach. He has won everywhere he's been, Grand Valley State, Central Michigan, Cincinnati, Notre Dame, now at LSU. He's won 10, 10 and nine games. Was that winning at LSU? That's the problem. Okay, I don't know. That's what I was... I walked you right into it. Nine wins? I walked you right into it. He's won everywhere he's been except LSU. At most places, 10, 10, and 9 wins in your

first three years, people are okay with that. At LSU, where the three previous coaches won national titles, it's not OK. It's not enough. And that's where Brian Kelly finds himself under pressure because another night he goes nine again this season or even like if you go 10, if you're 10 and two in the regular season, you make the playoff. That's probably fine. But if you're nine and three and you missed the playoff again Where are they on you? I?

thought they were I Did a bad job. I guess we had t-bob a bear on the show and he kind of walked me off the ledge But I thought lsu fans were fed up already last year. They weren't yeah They were they were a little more even keel than than you usually expect lsu fans to be you know the movie stepbrothers mm-hmm When they have the scene with the tuxedos. And then one, I don't remember whether it was Dale or Brennan, let's out a fart. And then Seth Rogen goes, I can taste it. Is that onions and

ketchup? He goes, now that you mentioned it, those tuxedos, after that, now those tuxedos will seem a little messed up. And the reason why I bring that up is because it's like, after this past season, now the previous season where they blew one of the best offenses of all time seems a little bit more messed up. Yeah, it's funny, the immediate anger of that. I almost think you needed to see Jaden Daniels and Malik neighbors and Brian

Thomas Jr. do it in the NFL. To really drive home the point that having the worst defense in LSU history wasted an incredible like remember the 2019 LSU offense. We're like they'll never have an offense that good again. Nobody will ever have an offense that good again. They actually might have had an offense that good again four years later. I would I would criticize them but they're not the only team that that blue talent like that, right Ohio State had yes, it's CJ Stroud and Garrett Wilson and Jackson Smith and Jigba and Marvin Harrison all at once and

they didn't win anything either. So it happens. But like at LSU. At least they made the 14 playoff. Yeah. They made the playoff. Yeah. And like I likeability was part of my thought process too. Like, I don't know. I'm not worried about likeability if you're winning. Like, if Brian Kelly's winning national titles, it does not matter how likeable he is. But I also think that if you're not winning, your likeability makes it harder for you to get back on track. Well, I just, I think the LSU job in particular, Alabama's like this, Ohio State's like this. I think Brent Venables is going to find. Alabama's like this, Ohio State's like this. I think Brent Venables is gonna find out

Oklahoma's like this. You better meet a certain standard quickly. LSU is a hard job. It's an incredibly difficult job but it also with the right person is easy. Well, right. Crazy? No, cuz cuz we don't look at Les My like now knowing all we know about Les Myles. It's like, oh, how'd that guy win a national title? Oh, cuz cuz we don't look at less my like now knowing all we know about less miles It's like oh how that guy went on a national title Oh cuz he was cuz the blueprint at LSU makes it easier to do that Like I feel like the hardest part about coaching is going to a place creating a blueprint having a clear and identifiable plan and then following

Yeah, Nick Saban created the blueprint for LSU 20 years ago. All you got to do is follow it and like Yes, so I don't know what the expectations are. Like, Garrett Nussmeyer is gonna be really, really good. He's gonna be good. I like what they did in the transfer portal. They attacked it much more aggressively. It feels like they've improved the talent on defense, which they absolutely had to do,

because they improved the coaching on defense last year, but they didn't really improve the roster defensively. So they got a little bit better. I think they've improved the roster some now, but the problem is. And then the hope is that Harold Perkins comes back and is who he is. Yeah, but you lose Will Campbell and Emory Jones

on the offensive line, and Garrett Dellinger on the offensive line. Like it's not, it's still not an easy replacement of the talent they lost. Yeah, so I mean, here's the thing. Brian Kelly being ranked number sixteen is still a pretty nice place to be ranked. Like, I think we lose track too. It's like, oh, he's not number eight. Right. And sixteen's pretty good. But I think, let's say he wins nine

games again this year. He's dropping on both our lists and LSU fans are are pitchforks and torches. Yeah. I mean, I honestly don't know if they go eight and four as either coach next year. The following year. That's a good question. Like, like honestly don't know if they go eight and four as either coach next year the following year That's a good question like that's a discussion. I was worried about them after the Florida game They bounced back nicely and beat Vanderbilt and beat Oklahoma and then won the bowl game So they finished the season strong because they're probably gonna lose their opener again Just so you know on a Sunday this time for once. I think they're like oh and four or five Yeah, it's not on a Sunday this time for once. I think they're like 0 and 4 or 5.

Yeah, it's not on a Sunday this time, though. Because they've lost the last three, those Sunday neutral site openers. Haven't they lost their last five openers? They have. And so they go to Clemson. And that's not going to be easy. I have Dabo very high on this list

because I think Dabo is actually coming back. Like, he's starting to do the things you have to do in this era. Okay. Because revenue share. Can we talk about it? Yeah, we'll wrap up the show with Dabo because you have him lower than I do.

I've been very critical of Dabo throughout the transfer. Still have him very high on mine. Yeah, you do. I've been very critical of him throughout the transfer portal era, but I feel like I understood what he was saying last year when he was explaining why they weren't using it as much. Because it was his gentle way of saying Clemson

didn't have enough money in the collective system to afford the players who could help them, like who would be better than the players they already have, who wouldn't cost so much that it would upset their pay scale for the players that they had retained. So it was a delicate balance they had to achieve there. Now with revenue share, there's some more money and they can afford some people. And I think that's going to allow them to take transfers a little more often. They're still not going to take transfers a lot because they like their culture.

They like recruiting guys in high school. And what did we say at the beginning of the show? What's the most important thing still? Recruiting. Out of high school. And what did we say at the beginning of the show? What's the most important thing still? Recruiting out of high school and developing them. Guess who's really good at that? Dabo Dabo. Okay, so I don't know if I was I wasn't on three yet, but I made a huge storm last summer like Paul Finebombs head was going to explore. But I put Dabo Sweeney on my Mount Rushmore of coaches. Oh, wow.

So like top four all time? Yes. Or top four currently working? I think it was, I think the Mount Rushmore was of like the modern era. OK. That's all. I'm like, I don't know.

So you're talking about this includes Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, Pete Carroll at USC. Yeah. Or really, it might have even been back to 1980. I can't remember. But the reason why, Dabo has frustrated the hell out of me the last few years. Because I feel like he was doing his team a disservice

by not getting the best players to play for him. Regardless of however he wanted to package that. I thought it was bad. But Dabo is the only active coach in college football for the past 25, 30 years who has done this one thing, which is turning a good program into a juggernaut. Yes. That, that is like, you want to talk about program building. And I would argue that Clemson wasn't even a good program when he got the job. It was a middling program. He turned them into a team that could stand at the same spot

or sit at the same table as George in Alabama and belong there. And no one else has done that. Dan Lanning is working on that, although I would argue that Chip Kelly and Mike Bellotti had something to do with that at Oregon as well. Dabo did this himself at Clemson. And like from that aspect, I think you could even make him number one.

Like if you really wanted to make him number one. Yeah. Because I have. But I worried about him. And the reason we dinged him is would he be able to adapt to this era of college football? His public statements over the years suggested he was going to be very tough. But now I'm looking at him and it's like, ooh, okay, I think he's got, he's found the groove personnel-wise. The other part I worried about was the program being too insular. Now he did, like when Chad Morris left

as the offensive coordinator, he promotes Tony Elliott and Jeff Scott. That worked. They won two national titles with those guys as the Co OCs when venables left he promotes Wes Goodwin that did not work and so They also when Tony Elliott and Jeff Scott left they promoted Brandon Streeter that didn't work either. So he's now he's now fired Coaches that were probably mistakes to promote to coordinators.

So he fires Wes Goodwin this off season, he brings in Tom Allen, like bringing in new ideas to a program that already has a lot of good ideas. I think that's important. And what was the single biggest kind of rocket fuel propulsion of Clemson's program from very good to elite? It was when they brought Brent Venables into the defensive coordinator. Yeah, and I don't know if we have time, but that's part of the reason why he's on my

list still. I'm sorry. Why Venables is? I don't hate you. Look, Venables can coach his way onto my list this year too. He's just got to get it done. He's got to win in the way that Oklahoma expects him to win. But I think that there is this notion, especially from Clemson fans, Andy, that like

I have like a distaste for Dabo. And like I think that you guys should know that like I've got a deep respect for what he's done there. Yeah. I can re-criticize the way things have gone the last few years. And like I always bring this up, but the first time I was ever on your show and I was just an Ohio State B writer, I was like, the beginning of the end is happening at Clemson was

in 2019 or 18. Then everybody went berserk. I don't know if you're I think that's when you were like, we have to have this guy on the show more often. That's right. People get people off. But that was when it was easier to read the tea leaves. They weren't recruiting at the same level and the transfer portal hadn't happened yet. Now, Clemson still, their brilliance was never amassing Alabama, Georgia-like talent at once. It was getting top-end quarterbacks and then marrying them with really good evaluation jobs of guys like Isaiah Simmons and three-star

prospects. But they also got Christian Wilkins. Yeah. They also- But it was never 12 top 100 players in the single class. Right. Right. But they were really good when they targeted somebody at getting him and that person being a hit. You didn't see a lot of five-star

Chinese from Clemson wash out. The problem with Clemson was that they had a four-year run where they won two national titles and were the number one team in the country in the other two years, I believe. And sustaining that on a year over year was just not a tenable thing when they weren't recruiting the way that Alabama was. Right. And also they don't have the resources that the biggest SEC schools have. They do have a passionate fan base. They have an administration that cares deeply about football.

But it's harder when you are a fairly small school with a fairly small alumni base in the ACC, like what they've done is pretty remarkable. And I think that you could make the legitimate case that of all the coaches on both of our lists, that Dabo Sweeney has the most impressive resume. Yes, I don't think there's any question about that. And that's why he's number six on mine. He's number three on mine.

And I would have had him lower, if I had three on mine. And I would have had him lower. If I had done this last year, I would have had him lower because I was not sure last year, this time, if he was ever gonna come around on the portal. Now I understand. He gave an interview with Roddy Jones last May. I was like standing six feet away when he was saying it. I was listening to everything.

It made perfect sense. Like once I understood that, it all made more sense. The question with him always, too, is that this year, we both have Clemson as a very good team that advances in the playoffs. I think they're going to win the ACC. Yeah, I think they're going to be really good. They were an OK team last year, and they still won the ACC.

I think them winning the ACC is a pretty good bet. But will they be able to match up with Oregon and Georgia and Ohio State and those teams at the end of the year by doing what they're doing? I still have questions about that. That said, you dip your toe in, you get more acclimated to the way you do it than you realize. I mean, he, he knows that he needs to keep winning. Well, they're also going to test themselves against teams that theoretically

should have the playoff type talent. They start and end the season against teams we think have playoff type talent. In LSU and South Carolina. In South Carolina we're high on two. So do you want to just two minutes on omissions on my list that I can just do it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, go ahead. Three coaches that I feel bad didn't make my list. Shane Beamer. Who also didn't make mine, but it was close. So be ready for that. You're going to get a lot of, like South Carolina fans came pretty hard. Rat Lashley was somebody that I think could have been on my list that wasn't.

And you know, we're talking about a guy that led SMU to the playoff in year one of his existence at a program program or year one in the ACC is what I'm trying to say. So that one was pretty tough and I'm trying to remember who the third one was. I'll give you one off of mine that you had on your list. I didn't have a mind. Kalani Satake from BYU. I think that may have been a bad admission on my part. Yeah, but I don't know maybe be why you will go crazy but like and sometimes too it's like the

The loudest people are the ones that feel the like for the biggest fan bases But I got a lot of crap for having Kurt Signetti in the top 15 Which I thought was interesting and you're gonna get that too. Yeah, I had him number 12 People also thought that Mario Cristobal at number 11 was too high. Yeah, I had him at number 22. My thing is, he gives you a really high floor because you're always gonna have good line of scrimmage play with him. He's gotta show he can take it to the next level.

Yeah, but the Shane Beamer, what he's doing at South Carolina I think is- I just need to see it consistently. I need to see it year over year. And I don't know that that's a Shane Beamer knock. That may be a South Carolina, I think is, is I just need to see it consistently. I need to see it year over year. And I don't know that that's a Shane Beamer knock. That may be a South Carolina thing because the problem is like South Carolina with Shane Beamer, like they've had, they had that situation with must champ early too, where he had the, the, the good year and then the dip and then like, so I need to see it consistently. Oh, and let's be real.

Only one person's actually been able to do it consistently at South Carolina, and that's Steve Spurrier. So it's not that easy. Your list is almost like you like read the comments on who people were mad at me for. And I really didn't. Because my bracket came out earlier this week, so I was staying off.

Because you're last. Staying off the comments. Your last two are also ones that I didn't have on my list that people got mad about. Jeff Brom. Yep. I didn't have on my list that people got mad about Jeff Brom yep I didn't have I think that you couldn't make a case that there were some plate like you know that he should have been on there and then Eli Drinkwitz mm-hmm I had a hard time you know I had Eli I'm gonna tell you I had him at like number 24 uh-huh and then when I was writing his blurb I was having a hard time so I

draw I'll tell you why Missouri's a really hard job. And I actually wrote this in the blurb about Eli, is I spent probably five to 10 years saying, we didn't appreciate Gary Pinkle enough. And it's a hard place to win, Missouri. It's an even harder place to win with Missouri and the SEC. Eli's made them really competitive. Really competitive. And you can say they had an easy schedule last year. That's fine. But he's getting top in talent there. He's winning games at a really

impressive clip. So and Chris Kleiman too, Andy. I didn't have I had Chris Kleiman and a lot of that, you know, Chris Kleiman, Lance Leipold, the jobs they're doing now, but also you do have to give them, as we talked about, give them their flowers for winning national titles at another level. But also if this list was top 30, those would be the next five. So like, I mean, it's just like, it's really hard. And if you would have Jeff Munkin just missed mine, the army coach. I thought I think he's fantastic.

I think he's done a really good job and people forget how bad they were when he got there and he's made them year in, year out good. I mean, they won the freaking American conference last year. Yeah. But yeah, this was fun. Check out the lists that we had. We both gave our rationale on them.

And you know what? If you're mad, that's fine. Do a list and post it and see how it goes for you. There's no right answer. I probably won't be commenting under your list. So yeah, just warning. Fair warning. But it was fun.

And no, we could have had, I mean, you know, next week if we hit a lull, we can hit back on this too. Oh, yeah. I still think there's a lot of meat on this bone because we didn't talk at all about Josh Hyple, Mario Cristobal, and some of the other people. Kaylen DeBoer.

You know, I think we should do another segment on this. Why not? Later. I mean, let's do it Monday. And then also like Kirk Ferentz and Matt Campbell, and guys on here, Lance Leipold, because they didn't have a great year this year. We both had them on our lists, I think, right? You did too.

Oh, yeah, because we understand how hard it is to win a game at Kansas, much less multiple games at Kansas. Super excited to be in New Orleans. I'm super excited to see those Caesars lights pop on here a little bit, and we're going to get some dinner. I'm not going to see those Caesars lights pop on here a little bit and we're gonna get some dinner. I'm not gonna eat any reptiles tonight unfortunately, but we're he doesn't know what he's gonna eat and I'm probably not gonna tell him until after he eats

it. So what is it? Some weird like banana land shit that you're taking me to. I mean, I'm I'm just I'm just gonna go with the flow. We'll we'll see. I will tell you where the night takes us. I will tell you of all the cities we could be in where I could be scared of what you have night takes us. I will tell you, of all the cities we could be in where I could be scared of what you have in for us, this is the scariest city that there is, right? For me, personally.

So, Ari. I'm taking you for a sandwich tonight. Okay. It's just a sandwich. Okay, well, I mean, you're gonna like it. It's gonna be lizard sandwich though, or something, and I'm just not gonna. I don't believe there are any reptiles

on this particular sandwich, so. Okay. We will talk to you tomorrow from New Orleans. Be a fun show Xfinity. Athletes first building out an incredible studio space. We cannot wait to get there and we're going to have a very very fun Friday show as we get you prepared for that last football game of the whole season Before the long off season begins, but don't worry. We got we got more coach ranking segments. We got more win totals

Season never ends it on three. We'll talk to you tomorrow