Andy & Ari On3 - Bill Belichick gets CLOBBERED by TCU in his college football debut at North Carolina

Starting point is 00:00:00 Welcome to Andy and Orion 3, presented by BetMGM, your instant reaction to Bill Belichick's college football debut, which is still going on. And so we're either going to talk about Bill Belichick's team getting whooped by TCU or the greatest comeback in the history of football. Yeah, there's no downside to going live right now, because if somehow the greatest comeback in the history of football. This is bigger than 28 to 3 if they do this, right? So let me ask you this. if you're sunny dykes do you run it up like do you do you run it up against a six-time head coach super bowl champion i would say that there are a lot of college football coaches out there who have witnessed the discourse coming from chapel hill about the 33rd NFL team and how

Starting point is 00:00:50 they're going to do things differently and they're going to use advanced analytics and their NFL personnel expertise to create an incredible program. I think there's a lot of college football coaches who think, you know, I think Sonny should prove it's quite a bit harder than Bill thinks and continue to prove that. But Sonny's also one of the nicest human beings I've ever met. So he's probably not the right candidate for this. Josh Hoover came out. Josh River's still out there.

Starting point is 00:01:24 That's all I'm going to say. he is out there um so we've had a a long weekend and we've been up past you know two three a m i assume you're not going to write tonight but i might because i i feel i'm feeling it you can't be helped i have a fantasy football draft so i'm going to be up anyway but i and they're they're all in Vegas that's why it's so late but it uh i have i want to workshop this with you let's do it and i don't know because we are a college football community, right? We love this game. We care about this game.

Starting point is 00:02:03 We respect the greats of this game. And I, like, I think underneath everything, resent the hoity-toity NFL bullshit that everybody always tries to prop up whenever anybody coach in the NFL comes to college as if it's the same thing. And I feel like I am in the mood to write that, like, winning a Super Bowl is not a prerect to being a good college. college coach. And if winning six Super Bowls makes him one of the greatest coaches of all time, which it unequivocally does, in his NFL evaluation, doing things the hoity-toity way

Starting point is 00:02:38 actually works, it's something that isn't going to materialize in the first game of his first season. He is facing a challenge at North Carolina that he never faced in the NFL, and that is playing against teams. And it won't happen every week, but I think he's a much better players. He's much better players across the board. And that's why, to compliment him, I think you can make the case that doing what he did in the NFL was more impressive than what Nick Saban did in college because the parody at that level is so much greater. That said, I do resent the idea that anybody who was a successful NFL coach can just come down to college and take the North Carolina job and, you know, it's going to be okay. Like, it's just, it's not. especially when getting those players to come to North Carolina,

Starting point is 00:03:26 it's so much harder than drafting them. Like, there are, there are financial limitations that UNC has. There's, there's, there's no gems anymore. Everybody is scouring the ocean floor of college football players and high school football prospects to get a good deal because everybody is spending now. Like what is, like the thing that I, I would love to know, and I don't know if we'll ever know this. And, you know, Andy, I'm a big investing guy.

Starting point is 00:03:52 and I've listened to a lot of Warren Buffett over the years. And Warren Buffett says the key to creating generational wealth is by buying companies that are undervalued and good long-term holds, good companies that are undervalued at a time. So buying Sleeping Giants? Is that what Warren Buffett is advocating? Or like if Apple is down or a company that you know is going to be around.

Starting point is 00:04:15 But you know what he's never done that I've come across? Explain specifically how a person like me can find the value the way that he does. There's no formula that has ever been handed over to the general public. And the reason why I bring this up is we hear that they're going to do things the NFL way. I want to know what the specific plan is here. What is the specific plan for North Carolina football besides we're the 33rd NFL team? I want to know. Can I hazard a guess? Sure. There was no specific plan. It was just something they were going to say because they knew they weren't going to have good players this year. And if you outsmart everybody, what does that look like?

Starting point is 00:04:51 how are you outsmarting them? Right. Exactly. Because Herm Edwards said the same thing and his results were horrendous at Arizona State. I have a terrible memory. In the chat says this is a bigger indictment of the media more than anything else. The facts were UNC was a talentless startup.

Starting point is 00:05:07 TCU was set to improve on an eight-win season. Nash, what media are you following? If you watch this show, we told you, TCU was going to cover this spread. They had lots of NFL players in North Carolina, didn't. like we told Labor Day the Labor Day picks graphic handy he probably doesn't because we already gave it out and the game's over but there's a lot of purple on it yeah yeah yeah it looked like the ESPN game day set when TCU played Georgia another game if you were watching and listening to me and Ari we told you what was going to happen in so yeah there it is yeah the media is the devil just so you know fake news but you know this is interesting question from Brian are Jim Harbaugh and Pete Carroll, the only two coaches to succeed at both levels in the 21st century. Yes.

Starting point is 00:05:54 And also, remember, Pete Carroll was an NFL failure when he went to USC. He was not a good NFL head coach the first time around. He was the second time around after USC. Harbaal has just been good everywhere he's been. Are there other examples besides Jim Harbaugh of head coaches in the NFL who coached in the Super Bowl who went and took over a job at college level? I'm having a hard time remembering you would know better than, but like before, before Harbaugh. Bill Walsh came back to college. Okay, so no, when TVs were black and white.

Starting point is 00:06:31 Yeah. And here's the thing about the only successful one who did it after going to the Supreme Court. Oh, Mike Sherman. Oh, Mike Sherman. Jimmy Johnson. Jimmy Johnson didn't come back to college. He went from Miami to. Yeah, he won.

Starting point is 00:06:49 the national title at Miami. Oh, Jimmy Johnson has an example of success in both. Yes, but that was not this century. Yeah. And here's the greatest thing about the only real example that we can come up with of going from the NFL to college. He went to Michigan. It's not like he went to like a school that hasn't won at a high level in the recent past. Now, North Carolina is a team that had been competing for ACC championships. But going to North Carolina is a lot harder, too, than going to, I don't know, let's say even Auburn or something, right? Or going to Alabama. He's at the bottom of the food chain with the financial ability to go get the players in this system.

Starting point is 00:07:30 And, you know, if this was the old days, he'd be at the bottom of the food chain in terms of traditional college football success. So going and turning around North Carolina and improving what Mack Brown built is a really, really hard proposition. Indeed. And Mac Brown was not doing that well. Mac Brown went six and six, which is not good enough by North Carolina standards. Because remember, North Carolina is not, but that's the thing. I'm going to push back on what you said, because you're acting like North Carolina is some poor downtrodden program that's a doormat in its conference.

Starting point is 00:08:04 It's really not. We make the sleeping giant jokes, but North Carolina is usually average to above average at football, at least in the last, but if northern years, 15 years. If North Carolina would make the college football playoff or this experiment would be a massive success or worth his time, eight wins is not what we're talking about. Lovie Smith, thank you, Edwin, in the chat. Lovie Smith, coached the Bears in the Super Bowl, and then they're still in Illinois. And how did that go? You know, yeah, North Carolina isn't a dormant program, and I think it's a team that could conceivably win the ACC.

Starting point is 00:08:43 Not this team, but yes, a program. that could be there. A program that could. Yeah. So, you know, listen, I don't know that I think, and I made the same mistake with Dion Sanders. I don't know if I want to make it again, but I would be kind of surprised if you were the head coach there in five years. And I feel like if he had a master NFL plan that involved evaluating and getting under the radar guys at cheap bargains and all that stuff, while also like taking his shot on the 10th best player in Ohio State's class here and there, that like year three would be a year where they would be very good. Like anybody expecting them to just like, you know, sprinkle Bill Belichick magic on someone's face and it just turned into a Super Bowl team. You know, I just don't think is analyzing the game properly. No, and the thing is, I think everybody's enjoying the Schadenfreude of this. It doesn't mean he won't be a good coach at North Carolina. I think most people assume he won't be there long. If he sticks it out for a few years, he could definitely become a good coach at North Carolina.

Starting point is 00:09:43 but you're going to have you've got to have time to build up a roster that way now i will say there are coaches who took over rosters after coaches got fired um lane kiffin took over at olmiss now this is pre pre player movement the way it is now but he had to he had to revamp that roster and he won uh josh heipel took over at tennessee and they were immediately average and then really good the second year and that was after losing a bunch of guys into the transfer portal so I think yeah if you're going to if you're going to say that he's got 70 new players and this is an impossible situation no that that's it that's what every new college coach pretty much faces these days when they replace somebody who got fired that is um that is the job

Starting point is 00:10:31 yeah over under if kurt signetti can revamp i you into the playoff what excuse does bill Belichick have it. Exactly. Now, the difference is Kurt Signetti could bring James Madison players. Bill Belichick could not bring New England Patriots players. Yeah, and James Madison players, it turned out to be really, really good. Yeah. What's the over-under on his tenure here? I mean, he's 72 years old.

Starting point is 00:11:00 That's what I'm saying. Yeah, it's not that I'm not even questioning his commitment. I'm two? Two. Yeah. Do you think North Carolina fans are really upset right now? yes like you think that they thought

Starting point is 00:11:14 they could have had john somerall if they'd let bubba cunningham make the hire he would have gotten somebody like john somerall he was trying to get in touch with matt campbell who probably would have said no because he he likes iowa state and he keeps saying no but those are the people that bubba cunningham was trying to look at and then their board of trustees

Starting point is 00:11:34 undercut bubba went after bill if John Somerall we're coaching in North Carolina right now, they would have looked very competent tonight. They might not have won, but they wouldn't have gotten blown out like this. I'm going to ask you another question

Starting point is 00:11:48 because we're just chilling, we're watching football, we're just guys being dudes. Are you any more impressed or has your thought process changed with Dion over this? No, it doesn't change. Dion Sanders situation and Bill Belichick's situation were completely different.

Starting point is 00:12:07 Dion Sanders started out. at a lower level in college and won a bunch of games. And then he went to a higher level in college and made that program better. I think Dion Sanders understands what it is to be a college football coach and what you have to do. I do think that this is a nice reminder of how famous and how much of a lightning rod Dion is. Because Bill Belichick didn't even register in terms of hype in comparison to even five minutes of Not a single... Not a single...

Starting point is 00:12:37 None of the stuff we did on Belichick after we got hired did anything, numbers-wise. Until Jordan Hudson said, we're not talking about this. That's when everybody got interested. When people started saying, well, who's his girlfriend? Nobody was interested before that. He didn't move the needle like Dion did. She was wearing bell bottoms. I don't know if you saw that.

Starting point is 00:13:01 I didn't see that. I was not aware. a picture of her from 600 yards away. She was running with Randy Moss in the booth. That was cool. Yeah. So, you know, it did kind of, it didn't take very long for the age jokes to hit Twitter on on Monday evening.

Starting point is 00:13:17 And I wonder if this is just going to be a season long parade of age jokes. I don't know. I'd really rather not take part in those. It's, now, we've seen them about Max Johnson, who's also 24 years old, who just came into the game when Gio Lopez went. the injury tent. And I'm going to say, Johnson looks great.

Starting point is 00:13:38 And it's a great story. Max Johnson broke his leg in the first game against Minnesota last year. Obviously, you know, he's Brad Johnson's son. His brother Jake is playing with him at North Carolina. In fact, the touchdown pass he just threw was to his brother Jake. Like, that's really cool. And we watched Max Johnson play at LSU early in his career.

Starting point is 00:13:56 We watched him play at Texas A&M. So, but the fact is, now maybe TCU is softened things up. Maybe they're playing backups on defense now. But he looks a lot more in command than Gio Lopez did. And again, this makes me question, what were you doing at all those closed practices? What were you doing when you were, you know, they put out a blank depth chart, which funny joke, ha ha. Like, maybe you were embarrassed to type it up because you got it wrong. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 00:14:33 yeah um max johnson uh probably is going to be the starter moving forward from what i watch tonight i don't know if you agree with that and i mean let's see it is late in the game the game's out of hand yeah and and and immediately when he led that touchdown drive the drew bledso tom brady joke started oh balls out balls in oh geez oh geez yeah it's uh another uh turnover for this is getting bad or is bad or is bad I mean, it was already bad. You know, and I feel like an idiot because I was like,

Starting point is 00:15:06 North Carolina fan's upset. There was a North Carolina fan in the chat, and he goes, yes, sorry, we are mad. It's like, yeah, that was a stupid question. I know. Yeah, it's got to be frustrating for them because, again, this is not Purdue, which, by the way, under Jeff Brom went to the Big Ten championship game.

Starting point is 00:15:24 This is not a perennial losing program. This is a program that has been winning and has been winning fairly recently. Are you at all, and we'll probably end up talking about this on Tuesday show because we do, we're not going to probably stick around for the Bill Belichick news conference. But like, do you think, you know,

Starting point is 00:15:49 the thing that amused me was when North Carolina came out and marched down the field on the first possession and scored a touchdown, you know, they ISO'd Belichick. And he was like this. No emotion. He knew. He knew.

Starting point is 00:16:02 Do you think he knew what was coming? Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, here's the thing about first drives. You've got the script. So you've got, you've repped it. Your players get it. The defense is off balance. Remember, TCU had no film on what this was going to look like.

Starting point is 00:16:17 None. And North Carolina had film of Andy Avalos's to TCU defense. So there was a huge advantage for North Carolina on that one drive. And our friend Parker Fleming at Stats of War, has a great tweet from last year that says, I want to see it after the scripted part ends. And that's exactly what you have to wait for. Because the second TCU's defense came back on the field.

Starting point is 00:16:51 All their run fits worked. The holes weren't opening anymore. There was nowhere to throw. They adjusted very quickly. and I'm sure Bill Belichick knew that was going to happen because I'm sure Bill Belichick knows what's on his roster and he watched enough TCU film to know what he was about to be dealing with. So he wasn't going to celebrate that.

Starting point is 00:17:17 Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that's probably just as temperament as a human being anyway. The other question I have. Brian is that before you get to that next question. We saw that same scripted versus not scripted things Saturday with Alabama at Florida State. It's exactly right. Alabama looked on the first drive like it was going to beat Florida State 100 to nothing and then completely fell apart offensively.

Starting point is 00:17:41 Do you think he's having fun? Is he ever having fun? I don't know. I'd hope so. I mean, he doesn't outwardly appear to ever be having fun. I think he gets his joy in different ways. I'll rephrase him. You think he's being that he has joy in this?

Starting point is 00:17:57 I mean, I think he enjoys coaching football. Yeah. I think the strategy of it, the teaching of it, I think that that is what brings him joy. So, you know, all the platitudes about, oh, it's great to be teaching again and all that. No, he wants to win too. The problem is you've got to have better players than this, and that's going to take at least an offseason to get. So we'll see if their evaluation acumen, because there's a thing, they can evaluate as great as they want to. If they don't spend the way everybody else spends, they won't get those players. Now, North Carolina has promised them a healthy chunk of the Revsure money,

Starting point is 00:18:41 so they're going to have money to spend. But by the time Bill Belichick got hired and got into the job, a lot of the guys in the portal already knew where they were going. So I don't know that we can judge the roster build this year necessarily. But it's not going to be easy. I mean, if they think that because they coached in the NFL, because Michael Lombardi was an NFL GM, that this is going to be easy and they're going to push around these morons in college football, I'm pretty sure after tonight they realize that's not going to happen. Yeah, yeah. Man, man, I feel like we talked about this coming this afternoon, and it just still feels even worse than I could have imagined.

Starting point is 00:19:30 I didn't know if it was, I didn't think it would be this bad. I thought TCU would win comfortably, but I didn't, I didn't realize they were going to absolutely annihilate them. Yeah. And why do we know that? And why does everybody who deeply covers college football, why were they telling you this? Because when we talk to people from TCU or people who play against TCU, they'll give you an honest evaluation of that roster.

Starting point is 00:19:59 and like the TCU team that made the national title game lost all those guys to the draft and then that next year they get blown out by Colorado in the first game like that team didn't have a bunch of NFL talent on it this team has a considerable amount of NFL talent on it they've done a great job with their roster in the last couple of years yeah and I know that everybody is amped up to talk about North Carolina but you know TCU looks really good out there. And I just, yeah,

Starting point is 00:20:28 Josh Hoover was awesome tonight. Awesome. They're not playing a bad team. You know, like this is a good team. And this is a team I think would fare quite well in the ACC, if I'm being honest.

Starting point is 00:20:39 So, well, maybe not this year's the ACC with Florida State being, oh, Hoover's so mad. Hoover's, oh, did Hoover hurt himself? He's limping.

Starting point is 00:20:48 He should be out of the game. Yeah, they're trying to hand off. They're on the goal line. If they lose Josh Hoover because they're farting around trying to run up to score here, that's that's not a great idea yeah they're showing the replay here and it looks like he took a

Starting point is 00:21:01 it took a weird step yeah yeah that was a non-contacted the handoff yeah he's still he's still out there so yeah man but this is this is where we're at with this game i'm curious so the have you did you see the overhead shot of the crowd stadium's completely empty yeah people left touchdown uh touchdown they're gonna they're gonna probably score 50 in this game stadium's completely empty. So all the excitement over Bill Belichick, I'm sure, dissipated. Do you think, how many North Carolina fans are asking should we have just kept Mac? I mean, that's what I thought when this happened.

Starting point is 00:21:51 Mac Brown is an incredible coach. And I don't know, people who are closer to North Carolina. Carolina were that I spoke to. And I know that you know a lot of people in Chapel Hill, too, right, Andy? Yeah. The general sentiment that I got from people close to the situation, at least in the week after it happened, was that Mac got a bad deal, got kind of a raw deal in the sense that, and here's what the raw deal was, you know, North Carolina when he first got there,

Starting point is 00:22:19 you know, when we were at the athletic, did you know, and I was in Chapel Hill when my phone alerted me that the first case of COVID had come to America. I mentioned that. By the way, I think I said Colorado blew out TCU in Deon's first game. It wasn't a blowout. It was a shootout, not a blowout. They scored a bunch of points, but they also gave up a bunch of points, but they won 45-42.

Starting point is 00:22:43 But to finish the point, though, when Mack Brown first got there, they were recruiting five-star players. They were getting guys out of Virginia. They were signing top 15 classes. Then NIL happened and then North Carolina faded. And it doesn't take a genius to, you know, put together why that probably happened. Because as you know, you're the one I think who coined the term got Macked. Because if you sit in the man's office, it feels like you've known him for 20 years.

Starting point is 00:23:10 And you connect on a personal level. And that's a gift that he had. And I think that if you were to ask him in an honest moment that he would feel as if, you know, the university wasn't 100% bought into. NIL and what it takes to win in college football these days and he was probably soured at the lack of support that he felt like he was probably getting. And then they go out and sign Bill Belichick for this massive deal and they promise him all these things of support and

Starting point is 00:23:37 they'll help him get players and all these things. And it's like, well, you know, things didn't go real well for Mack Brown in the last few years that he was at North Carolina, but you know what I would have liked to see? Mac Brown will full unilateral support from his administration. you know like we don't we don't know what that would have looked like um so you know i feel like i sound like i'm bearing belichick as a impossible mission impossible for him to be successful that's not at all how i feel but man uh it does feel kind of you know sad this evening because it it shows you too because like we thought north carlana had a chance to win eight games

Starting point is 00:24:13 do you think they're going to win eight games i don't i didn't i picked the under already i I picked the under a long time ago, because I just, they didn't have the roster for it. Now, interestingly enough, who's been the breakout player for TCU in this game? I'd say it's Jordan Dwyer, the transfer receiver from Idaho. North Carolina could have tried to sign Jordan Dwyer. Bill Belichick had been hired by the time Jordan Dwyer made his decision. He did Bill Belichick had been had been North Carolina ice coach for 11 days

Starting point is 00:24:51 when Jordan Dwyer committed to CCU. So I don't know. I mean, nine catches, 136 yards in a tutty. From Idaho. Maybe Sonny Dykson's company know how to evaluate too. Oprah Winfrey hand jester. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:25:14 Yeah. Maybe they know how to do it better. maybe they know how to evaluate young players who are three years away or two years away from being in the NFL draft better. So, I mean, that's kind of where it's at. It's funny. We were going to make this a fourth quarter watch party. Do we need to watch the rest of the fourth quarter?

Starting point is 00:25:31 I feel like that's just running up the score by us at this point. Yeah, and I think maybe on three would like a column from me. Yeah, and you have a fantasy draft. Go do your fantasy draft. Go write your column. you know, I'm really talented. I got Jamar Chase. So, like, it's all gravy here. It's an auction. I already got him.

Starting point is 00:25:52 There you go. Ari. We will, I am fascinated here what Bill Belichick says after this, because the Kurt kind of non-answers that he's been giving the entire time really aren't going to fly after you got pounded like this. So we will break all that down on tomorrow's show, which will. We'll drop at 3 p.m. Eastern time. We'll talk all of the action in college football, everything from whatever Bill Belichick says after this game to why Mike Gundy was pulling up his shirt at a press conference. Because Lord knows, that image was what I needed on my Monday.

Starting point is 00:26:40 We will talk to you tomorrow.

Andy & Ari On3 - Bill Belichick gets CLOBBERED by TCU in his college football debut at North Carolina

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